HomeMy WebLinkAbout1000-63.-1-29.2 LAW OFFICES
FREDERIC P. RICH
62965 MAIN ROAD- SOUTHOLD. NEW YORK I 1971
(616) 766-34116
July 7, 1980
Mr. Henry Raynor
Chairman, Planning Board
Town Hall
Southold, N. Y. 11971
Dear Mr. Raynor:
several weeks ago, I read in our local papers your
memorandum concerning subsidized housing in Southold. I
am in complete agreement with you and wrote to the town
board saying so.
I also sent a copy of your memorandum to my friend
Robert J. Scanlan, Administrative Assistant from Arizona.
I am enclosing a copy of his reply. Thought you might
be interested.
Best regards.
Sincerely,
JOHN J. RHOD£5
Jun~ 19, 1980
Mr. Fred Rich
7657 East Meadowbrook Avenue
Scottsdale, AZ 85251
Dear Fred:
Congressman Rhodes is well aware of the problems in HUD
which you described in your recent letter. He does everything
he can to give local authorities more of a say in the selection
of housing development sites. But, as you and I have discussed,
as long as we are in the minority, it is most difficult to get
any changes made.
Mr. Rhodes has continually called for "oversight committees"
to determine if legislation passed is actually doing what the
Congress intended. HUD is a good example of what he is talking about.
Perhaps the November election will turn the tide for us, or
at least get us started in the right direction.
I am forwarding your letter to Mr. Rhodes to belp prove his
point.
Our hot weather has arrived with a bang. You left just in time.
Best regards to you and Flora.
Sincerely,
Robert J. Scanlan
Administrative Assistant,
Arizona
RJS:cc
=;DUTHDLD-PECDNIC CIVIC ASSDCIATIDN, INC.
SOUTHDLD, L. I., hi. Y.
June
Second
1980
Nr. Henry Roynor, Chairman
Southold Planning Commission
Town Hall
Southold, New York
Dear Mr. Roynor:
At a Board of Directors' meeting of this Association on
Nay 26th, 1980 it ~?as unanimously voted to advise you
that we are opposed to the concept and proposed develop-
ment of the project on Youngs Avenue, Southold, known as
"Southold Commons".
The necessity for such a project has not been established
and the further taxing of local facilities,-water, sewage
disposal, police and fire protection, road maintenance,
etc. should be sufficient grounds on which to reject this
proposal.
Very traly yours,
SOUTHOLD-PECONIC
~IVI.~ AoSN., .
H ~'$~tle, President
HL: emb
HENRY E. RAYNOR. Jr.. Chairman
FREDERICK E. GORDON
JAMES WALL
BENNETT ORLOWSKI. Jr.
GEORGE RITCHIE LATHAM, Jr.
S ~Y
Southold, N.Y. 11971
TELEPHONE
765- 1938
The following is noted regarding the application of Leon Weiner
Associates to HUD and letter from HUD regarding determination of
need received by the Town on May 14, 1980.
The proposal is for 149 federally funded units under Section
8 Housing with 100% funding on $4.6 million on a 40 year mortgage
at 7-1/2%. The total cost of the project is anticipated to be
$4.8 million. They could go for 20% assisted but have opted for
100%. The application states that this will be set up under
Delaware Corporation. Purchase price is listed at $275,000.
The proposal is for 13 buildings on 22.8 acres. One bedroom
apartments will rent for $433 per month and two bedroom apartments
for $514. There will be ll6 one bedroom and 33 two bedroom units.
All buildings are two story.
An on-site sewage plant will be provided. Public water
exists in the area. The application states that there is a public
stormwater sewer system.
The minority application is based on the 1970 census tract
for the area which was 2.9%. The applicant states minority housing
for 20%. The plan is for 22 units for blacks and 7 for Hispanics.
The following are the comments of Mr. Henry E. Raynor, Jr.,
Chairman, of the Planning Board with the concurrence of Mr.
Gordon and Mr. Orlowski:
1. There is no public stormwater sewer system.
2. With 'the water problems that have been encountered by
the Village of Greenport and the closing of Plant 6 due
to the high aldicarb count, it is questionable as to
-2-
®
whether the Village of Greenport would be willing or
able to supply public water.
Southold School records indicate there are 13 black
and 2 Hispanic children enrolled representing 7 families.
The Town tax records indicate that all but one of these
families own their home. This would not appear to
justify the need for this kind of housing in the
amount requestedas it is questionable presently that
the 2.9% minority exists. Also, the percentage of
minority apartments proposed is approximately 20%.
INCORPORATED
1075 FRANKLIN AVENUE · GARDEN CITY, NEW YQRK 11530
TELEPHONE (516) 248-2200
Does tax-free interest income - in the form of a monthly
check - interest you?
We would like to send you a preliminary prospectus con-
taining information on
THE DEAN WITTER TAX-EXEM~T TRUST, TENTH SERIES
... a "monthly payment municipal bond fund" which is being
sponsored by Dean Witter & Co. Incorporated.
The Trust will provide interest income which will be, in
the opinion of counsel, exempt from Federal income taxes.
Return of the enclosed card does not, of course, obligate
you in any way.
A registration statement relating to these securities has been filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission but has not yet become
effective. These securities may not be sold nor may offers to buy be accepted prior to the time the registration statement becomes effective.
This document shall not constitute an offer to sell or the solicitation of an offer to buy nor shall there be any sale of these securities in any
State in which such offer, solicitation, or sale would be unlawful prior to registration or qualification under the security laws of any such State.
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor,
it was
RESOLVED to recommend to the Southold Town Board and
the Department of Housing and Urban Development denial
of the application of George Ahlers and Barry H. Hellman,
Project #NY36-0006-040, Yotungs Avenue, Southold, £or
housing assistance to be provided by the Department o£
Housing and Urban Development, for the following reasons:
1. There already exists within lO00yards of this
proposal a multiple dwelling area for the elderly.
2. There is a second multiple dwelling project in
the general area which is in process and has been given
preliminary approval, which consists o£ over 200 omits for
the elderly.
5. No need exists £or this type of housing in this
area in excess of what exists and what has been approved.
4. There exists an adequate quantity o£ low-income
housing in the To~n o£ Southold.
Vote o£ the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Gordon.
JUDITH T. 'fERRY ·
TOWN CLERK
REGISTRAR OF VITAL STATISTICS
OFFICE OF To~ CLERK
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
SUFFOLK COUNTY
Southold, L. I., N. Y. 1 1971
TELEPHONE
(516) 765-1801
May 9, 1979
Mr. Alan H. Wiener, Area Manager
Department of Housing and Urban Development
666 Fifth Avenue
New York, New York 10019
Subject: Project No. NY36-0016-002, Southold Commons,
Southold, New York.
Dear Mr. Wiener:
The Town Board of the Town of Southold has studied
the Southold Commons as per your request of April 5, 1979.
In this respect, an investigation has been conducted into
the availability of rental units in the Town of Southold,
and this investigation reveals there is no need for
additional units at the present time.
Very truly yours,
Judith T. Terry
Town Clerk
DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND UF~BAN DEVELOPMENT
AREA OFFICE
666 FIFTH AVENUE
NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10019
2,L~. Albe~tM. ~Ia~tocchia
Supervisor
Town Hall
Southold, New York 11971
,.5 APR 197§
DeareSt. Martocchia,
Subject: P~oject No. NY36-0016~002, Southold Commons, Eouthold, New York
We have received the enolosed application involving hou~ing assistance
to be provided by ~ur Department ~nyo,~r jurisd3~ction. ~rsua_nt to
Section 213(c) of the Housing and Com~nityDevelopnent Act of 1974,
we must determine whether or not there is a need for such housing
assistance, taking Lute consideration any applicable Slate housing
assistance plan, ~ud that there is or will be a~ilable in the area
public £zcilitics and services adequate to 'serve the housing proposed
to be assisted. ~_u application may be approved only if ou~ determina-
tion is in the affirmative.
We invite you to submit ~o us all cements or information you may b~ve
which you deem relevant to o,~ dete~aination. '~nile we will not be
bound by any sach comments or infozuation, ~ll relevant comments o=
iufomnation you provide to us will be considered.
We will consider only comments or information from you received by
us no later than~_d~-s after the date on ~B~cn you ~ecezve this
letter. However, zn order to expedite the application, we would
appreciate a reply as soon as oossible. If you do not intend to
submit-a~uy comments or infornation, please so notify us as soon as
possible so that we may med<e o,mr detez~zi_uatinn.
Sincerely,
Area l~na~er
~uclosure
JOHN ~CKHAM. Cha~man
FRANK S. COYLE
HENRY E. RAYNOR, Jr.
FREDERICK E. GORDON
JAMES WALL
P D
T(~D~
Southold, N.Y. 11971
January 18, 1979
TELEPHONE
765- 1938
Mr. Wilbur Klatsky
625 Middle Country Road
Coram, New York 11727
Dear Mr. Klatsky:
The following is an excerpt from the minutes of the Planning
Board meeting of January 9, 1979.
"Mr. Henry Raynor, Vice-Chairman, reported on discussions he
had withthe Town Attorney, Robert Tasker, and the Chairman of
the Board of Appeals, Robert Gillispie, Jr., regarding the Southold
Commons apartment complex. At the last meeting the applicant
informed the Board that he was continuing the old appeal decision
of Ahlers and Hellman. On reviewing the site plan, there are some
substantial differences with regard to the two plans. One is that
there are certain amenities left out of the new site plan that
were granted as part of the decision including tennis courts,
shuffle board and a pool and playground. On the appeal decision
they have given an appeal to erect 13 buildings~'of not over 12
apartments each. The site plan submitted to this board is 16
buildings. It seems to be the considered opinion that this may
no longer be an extension of the application to the Board of
Appeals. This should be reheard by the Board of Appeals. The
matter was discussed separately with the Town Attorney and the
Chairman of the Board of Appeals and also at the group meeting
January4th."
Yours truly,
M, Secretary
Southold Town Planning Board
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
OFFICE OF BUILDING INSPEC~rOR
TOWN HALL
SOUTHOLD, N. Y. 11971
TEL. 765-1802
December 12, 1978
Southold Town Planning Board
Town Clerk Office
Southold, N.Y. 11971
Re: Southold Common $
Gentlemen:
The following are my comments after reviewing the revised site plan
dated, December 8, 1978 for the above:
1. Buildings A.B. & C exceed the minmum four (4) family occupancy
as set forth in permitted uses, Article IV, Section 100-40 A.2.
There are two parking areas located in the front yard at Youngs
Ave. This would require a variance under Article XI, Section
100-112 J (2). Also, site plan does not show marked parking
areas and screening as required under sub sections - (1) -(5).
Based on the driveway establishing a front yard within the site,
the accessory recreation building would require a variance for
its location.
Under site data, parking spaces were computed at 200' S.F. -
Article XI, Section 100-112 C requires 350 S.F. for parking
space computation.
It is also noted that the site development plan does not include
the data as requiredunder the following sections for presub-
mission conference. Article XIII, Section 100-134 Legal date -A
-(7); Natural Features B. (1) (2) (3); Existing Structures
and utilities C.4) 2) (3).- (4); Proposed Development D.
6. I would also like to point out to the Board, that the 20' securit~
access to Hortons Lane runs through a parking area in addition to
an undeveloped "C" Light Industrial D~rict. .
/
tf~ ~bmitted,
~ ~ ~X~~ Building Inspector
hen 'y a. zuckerman, associates
architects planners
tides office buildinq, route 25a. rocky point.new york .11778'516'744.6188
December 8, 1978
-1-
Southold Planning Board
Mr. John Wickham, Chairman
Southold Town Hall
Main Road
Southold, New York 11971
Re: Southold Commons
Dear Mr. Wickham:
Two months have passed since Mr. Klatsky and I had our pre-submission
conference with the board. We h~d attempted to revise the site plan
and resubmit it at the November meeting. However, we have spent con-
siderable time analyzing the boards' comments, concerns and suggestions.
The revised site plan, which we are presenting on December 10th, ad-
dresses itself to those comments discussed at our October meeting.
The site plan has been amended to include a reduction in the density
from 153 units to ~49 units. The length of each building has also been
decreased. The main entrance has been amended to include an accelera-
tion and deceleration lane. We have provided a twenty foot wide
secondary means of access to the property from Horton Avenue. As per
the boards~ request, this access will be used only for emergency vehi-
cles. We intend to utilize rolled curbing along the entire primary
access road, so that emergency vehicles will have access to the project
at all times. A traffic study wa's prepared by Raymond, Parish and Pine
of Tarrytown, New York, which indicates that the traffic generated from
this project will not have any negative effect on the traffic flow on
Youngs Avenue, the North Road or Route 25A.
We had a meeting with Mr. Fisher to review his concerns with respect to
.the buildings. We have clarified the requirements for front-yard set-
back and have resolved that there shall be no parking or building within
the required fifty foot setback from the entrance road. As per Mr.
Fisher's request, we have separated the community building from the ap-
artment structure.
henry a. zuckerman, associates
architects-planners
tides office buildinq · route 25a. rocky point, new york .11778 '516'744.6188
-2-
Ve'y tru
Henry A.
HAZ:jb
I trust the board will feel confident that we have addressed our-
selves to its concerns, and we look forward to a positive reaction
at the December 18th meetin? so that we can proceed to obtain final
site plan approval.
R.A N.C.A.R.B.
Zuckerman,
Attachme~ ~s:
1) Revised site plan dated December 8, 1978.
2) Architectural drawings, sheets 2, 3a, 4, 5 and 6
dated December 8, 1978.
3) Traffic study dated November, 1978.
November 22, 1978
Mr. Wilbur~Klatsky
625 Middle Country Road
Coram, New York 11727
Dear Mr. Klatsky:
Pursuant to our telelphone conversation of this
morning, I am writing to verify that I have cancelled
your appointment with the Southold Town Planning Board
for November 27th. I have rescheduled you for 9:00
p.m. on Monday, December 18th.
Please have plans in the office of the building
inspector at least fifteen days prior to the meeting.
Yours truly,
Muriel Brush, Secre~u~y
$outhold Town Planning B~ard
November 8, 1978
Mr. John Wickham, Planning Board Chairman
SouthOld Town Hall
Main Road
Southold, New York 11971
ATT: Mrs. Brush, Secretary
RE: Final Site Plan Approval
Southold Commons
Dear Mr. Wickham:
Pursuant to the Planning Boards's request at our meeting of Monday,
October 30, 1978, please find enclosed five (5) copies of brochures
describing the activities of Leon N. Weiner Associates.
I hope the brochures outline the extensive experience of Leon N. Weiner
Associates.
Looking forward to seeing you on November 27th.
Very truly yours,
WILBUR KLATSKY'
WK:jg
Enc.
CC: Henry Zuckerman
Marvin S. Gilman
625Middle Country Roade Coram, New York 11727e (516) 473-6161
TO
Henry A. Zuckerman & Ass~jates
Architects/Planners
Tides Office Building
Route 25 A
ROCKY POINT, NY 11778
(516) 744-6188
Southold Town Planning Board
Town Hall
Main Road
Southold, New York 11971
GENTLEMEN:
WE ARE SENDING YOU [~ Attached [] Under separate cover via
[] Shop drawings ~ Prints [] Plans
[] Copy of letter [] Change order []
°^~1/1/78 I'°""°'
Mrs. Brush, Secretary
"~'Southo]d Commons, Southold, New York
[] Samples
the following items:
[] Specifications
COPIES DATE NO. DESCRIPTION
5 '6/18/76 7-7 Southold Commons, Preliminary Drawings
THESE ARE TRANSMITTED as checked below:
[] For approval
~ Eor your use
[] As requested
[] For review and comment
[] FOR BIDS DUE
[] Approved as submitted [] Resubmit
[] Approved as noted [] Submit__
[] Returned for corrections [] Return
[]
19
copies for approval
_copies for distribution
__.corrected prints
[] PRINTS RETURNED AFTER LOAN TO US
REMARKS
COPY TO
SIGNED: Judy Bonkowski
If enclosures are not as noted, kindly notify us at once.
TRAFFIC ANALYSIS
"Southold Commons"
Southold, New York
Prepared by
Transportation Planning Group
Tarrytown, New York
November, 1978
Transportation Planning Group
555 White Plains Road, Tarrytown, New York 10591
914/631-9003
2!2365Z666
Contents
Page
Summary
Data Collection
Traffic Analysis.
Conclusion
Exhibits
SUMMARY
The purpose of the following traffic analysis is to evaluate the
impact of traffic generated by "Southold Commons" on the streets
and intersections adjacent to the site in the Town of S0uthold,
New York. (See Exhibit No. 1). In order to conduct the analysis,
data was collected on traffic volumes, turning movements, acci-
dents and roadway characteristics. Based on this data, and a pro-
jection of traffic movements resulting from Southold Commons, the
capacity of the affected intersections to accomodate future traf-
fic was analyzed. The conclusion of this analysis, which is set
forth in detail in the remainder of this report, is that the
fic generated by Southold Commons can be accomodated with no dif-
ficulty or congestion by the nearby affected intersections.
DATA COLLECTION
The followinq basic data was collected to provide the necessary
in-put for the traffic capacity analysis.
Annual Average Daily Traffic (AADT)
Data was obtained from the Suffolk County Department of Trans-
portation indicating "the total volume of traffic occuring in
both directions during the 24 hours of an Average Uay" for both
North Road (County Rd. 27) and Main Road (N.Y. State Rt. 25).
AADT on the former road was 5,200 vehicles in 1976 and 7,750 on
the latter. (See Exhibit No. 2).
o
Turning Movement Counts
Manual counts were made of all directional movements at the four
nearby major intersections - Youngs Avenue at Rt. 2~ and Rt. 27,
and Horton Lane at Rt. 25 and Rt. 27 - during the morning peak
hour. These counts, summarized on Exhibit No. 3, are extremely
important, since peak hour volumes ~nd types of turning movements
are critical determinants of intersection capacity.
Street Dimensions
The width of each approach to each of the four intersections was
measured and plotted. This data is a necessary component of the
papacity analysis. Other intersection and roadway features, such
as signs, shoulders and channelization markings were also noted.
2
Accident Data
The Town of Southold Police Department provided information
concerning traffic accidents at the four major intersections.
(See Exhibit No. 4). Such data can help identify locations
where intersection design may be faulty. The only intersec-
tion where more than three accidents occured in a year is at
Youngs Avenue and North Rd. (Rt. 27). There were six, so
far during 1978. A review of the turning movement data indi-
cates that the number of left turns at this intersection are
greater than at any of the others and there are separate chan-
nels for right turns. These factors may account for the higher
accident rate; however it should be noted that four of
accidents occured during the peak summer months. In any event,
the accident rate is relatively iow.
ANALYSIS
The following tasks are necessary to analyze the traffic
Southold Con~ons.
impact of
Adjust Traffic Volumes
In order to account for seasonal and daily fluctuations in traf-
fic flow, the turning movement counts were compared to the AADT
and adjusted upward ~rop~rtionately to derive an accurate measure
of all existing turning movements for the two primary intersec-
tions, Youngs Avenue at Route 27 and Route 25. (See Exhibit
No. 5).
3
o
Est~t~e o~.T/9[f~c ~en~r_atiq~
Peak hour traffic to be generated by Southold Commons, at its
completion, was then estimated based on standards developed by
the Institute of Traffic Engineers. This total traffic pro-
jection was then routed through the adjacent intersections in
accordance with present traffic distribution patterns· (See
Exhibit No. 6).
Intersection ~apacity Analysis
The adjusted existinq traffic volumes and the projected traffic
generated by Southold Commons were then combined to produce an
estimate of total traffic volumes at the affected intersections
upon completion of Southold Commons. Resulting volumes and
turning movements at each principal intersection are shown on
Exhibit No. 7. From this data,, the level of service (operating
efficiency) was determined for each intersection·
On at grade streets, where the intersection basically determines
street capacities, the level of service is related to the degre~
of delay at the intersection. It is expressed in a ranqe of
values from A to F, where A represents the least congestion'or
highest level o[ service, and F represents total congestion or
forced flow. The level of service is determined by both physical
factors and vehicular operating charaoteristics. Som'e of the
physical factors are roadway width, parking regulations, road-
way grade, etc., and vehicular operating characteristics include
the percent of turning movements, percent of commercial vehicles,
local bus service, etc. Level of service C is considered to be
good design and was used as the desirable level of service in
this study.
Exhibits No. 8A and
tions, the design hour volumes and
hour volume* represents the volume
8B indicate the level of service computa-
service volumes. The design
for which the street system
should be designed to operate at level of service C. For this
analysis, the projected AM peak hour volumes were used
sign hour volumes. Service volumes are the maximum traffic
volumes (with prevailing roadway conditions and traffic char-
acteristics) that can be accomodated at each level of service
from A to E.
CONCLUS ION /
The above analysis indicates that the two intersections o~ Youngs
Avenue - at Rt. 27 and Rt. 25 - will accomodate traffic volumes
after completion of Southold Commons with no difficulty. The Rt.
27 intersection will operate at level of service A, as' the design
hour volume is only 25% of the actual service volume. The Rt. 25
intersection will operate at level of service C, with design hour
volume only 60% of the actual service volume. Furthermore, this
*The design hour volume is the 30th highest traffic volume hour
anticipated throughout the entire year.
analysis indicates that each intersection will
capacity for growth other than Southold Common.
sections will be affected by the project.
have substantial
No other inter-
A review of the internal circulation system prepared for Southold
Common indicates that the street design will satisfactorily acco-
m~date traffic flow. The 30 foot width of the cul-de-sac street
is adequate in that no on-street parking is contemplated.
6
B~ Y
HOG ~ECK
BA~
LITTLE
}lOG
NECK
t/¢/~
~ TFG-6
RAYMOND, PARISH 8, PIN,,i~kNC
TRANSPORTATION PLANNINWR~Up
TURNING OlAGRAM~
0
[ 15 --'-
,P,c::::,,E!i~c~ LA NE
I0
N
YouuGg
[' I~
.,x(ou ~4cq~, .4.v6
POLICE DEPARTIV1ENT. TOWlN O[:= $OUTHOLD
PECONIC, NEW YORK, 11958
Novembsr 14, 1978
Mr. Wil!iamR. McGrath, PE, Director
Transportation Planning Group
Raymond~ parish~ pine & Weiner~ Inc.
555White Plains Road
Tarrytown, New York 10%91
Dear Nr. MeGrath,
Ref. to your request this date for a listing of Hotor Vehicle Accidents
at the intersections of Rte. 27A & Youngs Ave., Rte. 25 & Youngs Ave., Rte 27A
& Hortons L%ne~ and Rte 25 & Hortons ~ane, Southold, please find information
on enclosed sheet°This Cata covers the period~f January 1, ]976 th~m October 31, 1978.
}loping this data will be of assistance to you.
F,t;CL (1)
Hg.,,'/j fr
Sincerely~ . ~
Lt. H. D. Winters
POLICE DEPARTMENT. TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
PECONIC, NEW YORK, 11958
Intersection of Route 27A & Youngs Avenue, Southold ;
7-03-76 2 Vehicles 10-12-78
8-20-7; 2 Vehicles 10-27-78
1-24-77 2 Vehicles 5-31-78
8-22-77 2 Vehicles 8-2~-78
8-27-'i' i' 2 Vehicles 8-03-78
10-10-7 ~ 2 Vehicles 7-11-78
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
2 Vebicle~'---
of_ .hqu_te- _~_~, _!o~n_gs Av_~n~u~e~ Southold ;
5-14-76 2 Vehlc] es 8-21-78
7-19-76 2 Vehicles 8-24-78'
10-23-76 2 Vehicles 9-1]-78
2-07-77 2 Vehicles
7-07-7 F 2 lFchicles
6-1h-7~ 2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
10-07-7
8-8-77
10-15-7i/
One Veh. vs Bicyclist
2 ~rehicles
2 ~a~h:i cle,n
Intersection o(j,'.,'m_t_e 2_~_~2Jf.?_rt__o_n_s~A~v?j(~% Southold ;
5-31-77
10-26-7 7
5-08-78
1 Vehicle vs. Tree
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
Il q~ I ~0
D
lO
tU
D
~ c::).
VoL u
Transportation Planning Groul
General Description
Direction
Phase
Physical Conditions
'wA Width ,of Approach, curb to curb
Pkg. Parking within 250'
Inter~Iction Capacity Workshe:
Project
lntersection'l/CXJt'J,(0$ A~f¢/gT.'~5 By
/
L- S- R L- S R I L-S- R
A A I ~
One-way or two-way
Environmental Conditions
Date
AREA T,/pe o¢ Location; CSD, F, OBD. R
fA Area Factor, Figure
6.8, 5.9
P Metro Area Population (in 1000's)
PHF Peak Hour Factor
Characteristics
Traffic
fT
rR
Percent Trucks
Truck Factor, Table
Percent Right Turns
Right Turn Factor, Table
Percent Left Turns
Left Turn Factor, Table
Type Bus Stop & Number/Hr.
fL3 Local Bus Factor, Figure
fi Intermediate Factor
~-i - rA'rpPHF'fT'fR' L'fLB
LeveJ°fService A B C g E 1~--~ I s~
LF Load Factor 0 .1 .~-.3 .3-.7 .74.0 .8~
.85
Control Measures
c s~o~l Cycle /Sac> ]o.5t J
Calculations -
Comoos~teFactor = fi'(G/C)
CSV Char[ Service Vol. (Same figure as fA)
ASV Actual Service Volume = CSV. fc
I0oo I
660
OHV Design Hour Volume
t lo>f!
I b~[ i
][/ l~'~sl
Transportation Planning Grog Interljction Capacity Works
Project ~ O oTJ~ o~.T) (~-'0 ~N4. MO['J
General Description
Physical Conditions
'2/A Width Of Aporoach, curb to curb
Pkg. Parking within 250'
Environmental Conditions
AREA Type of Location; CBO, F, OBD, R
fA Area Factor Figure
p Metro Area Population (in lO00's)
PHF Peak Hour Factgr
1.0o /
,5 5. 6.5, 6.7 ~-'ql6.5, 6.6.
50o
Traffic Characteristics
/
T Percent Trucks
fT Truck Factor, Table
R Percent Rioht Turns
fR Right Turn Factor, Table
L Percent Left Turns
fL Left Turn Factor, Table
Type Bus Stop & Number/Hr.
fLB Local Bus Factor, Figure
0
I n(ermedJate Factor
Fi~ fA.fPPHF,fT.fR-fL.fLB
Level of Service A B C D E
LF Load Factor 0 .1 .1-.3 .3-.7 .7-1.0
.85
Cor~trol Measures
C Signal Cycle (Sec)
Calculations
CSV Chart Service Vol. (Same figure as fA) [Iq~ -' Iq0ol gS;o 55C
ASV Actual Service Volume = CSV. fc /O~O! ---~ 10%'1 'l, lg M5 ~
Additional Comments
TRAFFIC ANALYSIS
"Southold Commons"
Southold, New York
Prepared by
Transportation Planning Group
Tarrytown, New York
November, 1978
Transportation Planning Group
555 White Plains Road, Tarrytown, New York 10591
g14/631-9003
Contents
Page
Summary
Data Collection
Traffic Analysis
Conclusion
Exhibits
SU~L~LARY
The purpose of the following traffic analysis is to evaluate the
impact of traffic generated by "Southold Commons" on the streets
and intersections adjacent to the site in the Town of Southold,
New York. (See Exhibit No. 1). In order to conduct the analysis,
data was collected on traffic volumes, turning movements, acci-
dents and roadway characteristics. Based on this data, and a pro-
jection of traffic movements resulting from Southold Commons, the
capacity of the affected intersections to accomodate future traf-
fic was analyzed. The conclusion of this analysis, which is set
forth in detail in the remainder of this report, is that the
fic generated by Southold Commons can be accomodated with no dif-
ficulty or congestion by the nearby affected intersections.
DATA COLLECTION
The following basic data was collected to provide
in-put for the traffic capacity analysis.
the necessary
Annual Average Daily Traffic (AADT)
Data was obtained from the Suffolk County Department of Trans-
portation indicating "the total volume of traffic occuring in
both directions during the 24 hours of an Average ~ay" for both
North Road
AADT on the
the latter.
(County Rd. 27) and Main Road (N.Y. State Rt. 25).
former road was 5,200 vehicles in 1976 and 7,750 on
(See Exhibit No. 2).
Turning Movement Counts
Manual counts were made of all directional movements at the four
nearby major intersections - Youngs Avenue at Rt. 2~ and Rt. 27,
and Herren Lane at Rt. 25 and Rt. 27 - during the morning peak
hour. These counts, summarized on Exhibit No. 3, are extremely
important, since peak hour volumes ~nd types of turning movements
are critical determinants of intersection capacity.
Street Dimensions
The width of each approagh to each of the rotor intersections was
measured and p~o[ted. This data is a necessary component of the
capacity analysis. Other intersectiom and roadway features, such
as signs, shoulders and channelization markings were als~ noted.
2
Accident Data
The Town of Southold Police Department provided information
concerning traffic accidents at'the four major intersections.
(See Exhibit No. 4). Such data can help identify locations
where intersection design may be faulty. The only intersec-
tion where more than three accidents occured in a year is at
Youngs Avenue and North Rd. (Rt. 27). There were six, so
far during 1978. A review of the turning movement data indi-
cates that the number of left turns at this intersection are
greater than at any of
nels for right turns.
accident rate; however
accidents occured during the peak summer months.
the accident rate is relatively iow.
the othe~s and there are separate chan-
These factors may account for the higher
it should be noted that four of the'Kix'----
In any event,
ANALYSIS
The following tasks are necessary to analyze
Southold Co,nons. z
the traffic impact of
Adjust Traffic Volumes
In order to account for seasonal and daily fluctuations in traf-
fic flow, the turninq movement counts were compared to the AADT
and adjusted upward proportionately to derive an accurate measure
of all
tions,
No. 5).
existing turning mow~ments for the two primary intersec-
Youngs Avenue at Route 27 and Route 25. (See Exhibit
3
Peak hour traffic to be generated by Southold Commons, at its
completion, was then estimated based on standards developed by
the Institute of Traffic Engineers. This total traffic pro-
jection was then routed through the adjacent intersections in
accordance with present traffic distribution patterns. (See
Exhibit No. 6).
Intersection ~apacity Analysis
The adjusted existinq traffic volumes and the projected traffic
generated by Southold Commons were then combined to produce an
estimate of total traffic volumes at the affected intersections
upon completion of Southold Commons. Resulting volumes and
turning movements at each principal interse-ction are shown on
Exhibit No. 7. From this data, the level of service (operating
efficiency) was determined for each intersection.
On at grade streets, where the intersection basically determines
street capacities, the level of service is related to the degr6e
of delay at the intersection. It is expressed in a range of
values from A to F, where A represents the least congestion'or
highest ].eve] of service., and F represents total conqestion or
forced flow. The level of service is determined by both physical
factors and vehicular operating characteristics. Some of the
physical factors are roadway width, parking regulations,, road-
way grade, etc., and vehicular operating characteristics include
the percent of turning movements, percent of commercial ve~icles,
local bus service, etc. Level of service C is considered to be
good design and was used as the desirable level of service in
this study.
Exhibits No. 8A and 8B indicate the level of service computa-
tions, the design hour volumes and service volumes. The design
hour volume* represents the volume for which the street system
should be designed to operate at level of service C. For this
analysis, the projected AM peak hour volt, es were used as'~e-~'~-
sign hour volumes. Service volumes are the maximum traffic
volumes (with prevailing roadway conditions and traffic char-
acteristics) that can be accomodated at each level of service
from A to E.
CONCLUSION
The above analysis indicates that the two intersections of Youngs
Avenue - at Rt. 27 and Rt. 25 - will accomodate traffic volumes
after completion of Southold Commons with no difficulty. The Rt.
27 intersection w~]l operate at level of service ~, as'the design
hour volume is only 25% of the actual service volume. The Rt. 25
intersection will operate at level of service C, with design hour
volume only 60% of the actual service volume. Furthermore, this
*The design hour volume is the 30th highest traffic volume hour
anticipated throughout the entire year.
5
analysis indicates that each intersection will
capacity for growth other than Southold Common.
sections will be affected by the project.
have substantial
No other inter-
A review of the internal circulation system prepared for Southold
Common indicates that the street design will satisfactorily acco-
m~date traffic flow. The 30 foot width of the cul-de-sac street
is adequate in that no on-street parking is contemplated.
6
~.i T 14 QL
PECONIC
S O U T-f~'O L"'lY--
HOG NECK
BAY
BEACH
Mo. [
FDRM TPG-6
RAYMOND, PARISH
TRANSPORTATION PLANNiN(]~Ib,,(jU p
TUt~AIING
N
~0
Lo~'no~ ~OO'T'.~Lb , t,,J '1'
"~0.
POLIOE DIEPARFI ,4ENT. TOWbJ OF $OUTHOLD
PECONIC. NEW YORI-<, 11958
Nov,~mbmr 1}~, 1978
Fir. William R. MeGrath~ PE, Director
Transportation Planning Group
Ra.ymond~ parish~ pine & Weiner~ Inc.
555 White Plains Road
Tarrytown, New York 10591
Dear ~ir. McGrath,
Ref. to your request this date for a listing of £.iotor Vehicle Accidents
at the intersections of Rte. 27A & Youngs Ave.~ Rt.e. 25 &' Youngs Ave.~ Rte 27A
& Hortons L~ne~ and Rte 2.~ & Hortons Lan% Southold, pleese find information
on enclosed sheet,This data covers the period~6f January 1, ~976 th~a October 31, 1978.
}loping this data will be of assistance to you.
ENCZ (1)
HDW/J £r
SJncerely~ ~ ,
Lt. H. D. Winters
POLICE
DEPARTME]NT. TOWN OF-- SOUTHOLD
PECONIC, NEW YORK, 11958
7-03-7(, 2 Vehicles 10-12-78
8-20-76 2 Vehicles 10-27-78
1-24-77 2 Vehicles 8-31-'75
8-22-77 2 Vehicles !3-26-78
8-27-7[ 2 Vehicles 8-03-78
10-10-7 ~ 2 Vehicles 7-11-78
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
2 V eh~,.cl e ~,--.,--
5-14-76 2 Vehicles
7-19-76 2 Vehicles
10-23-75 2 Vehicles
2-07-7 ~ 2 Vehicles
7-07-7 i 2 Vehicles
6-!h-Th 2 Vehicles
_Int_e?_s_e_c_t_i_o_n_ .o f _R~o_u_t_e_2 7~_Z, _! [?_t~o n_ s_Av enue ;
5-21-78 2 Vehicles
8-24-78 2 Vehicles
P-1]-78 2 Vehicles
10-07-7
8-8-77
10-15-7i!
One Veh. vs Bicyclist
2 Vehicles
5-31-77
lO-26-77
5-08-78
1 Vehicle vs. Tree
2 Vehicles
2 Vehicles
· . q
I',,.t o. '7'
Vo L u ~es
Project
Transf~ortation Planning Grou~
555 White Plains Road
Tarry[own. New York !0~91
General Description
Interaction Capacity Worksh~
Intersection ~'OO k( (~ A~l'~//C-2('."Ld¢ B V
L-S- R
A
Direction
Movements L - S - R
Phase
A
Dale
Physical Conditions
IWA Width -Of curb~to curb
Approach,,
Pkg. Parking within 250
One-way or two-way
I~zo I ¢o I
Environmental Conditions
AREA T,/pe of Locauon; C3D, F, 0BP, R
fA Area Factor, Figure
P
Metro Area Population (in 1000's)
PHF Peak Hcur Factor
[.oo I I.oO
fPPHF Combined Adjustment Factor
Traffic Characteristics
T Percent Trucks
fT Truck Factor, Table
Percent Flight Turns
fFi Right Turn Factor, Table
' L~t, Turns
fL Loft Turn Factor, Table
T,/be 8us S~cp & Number/Hr.
fL3 Local Bus Factor, Figure
fi Intermediate Factor
Fi = iA.fPPHF.fT.fR-fL-fL8
Level of Service A B C O E
LF Load Factor 0 .1 .1-.3 .3-.7 .7-1.0
.85
c
Control Measures
Calculations
Transportation Planning Group
General Description
Direction ,
Movemen Is
Phase
Physical Conditions
C-T, %'3
L -S R
~.'T.
A
I'"A Width of Approach, curb to curb
Pkg. Parki¢-9w~thin 250'
One-way or t~vo-way
'~ / NO
I0
j I0
I~ / NO
Environmental Conditions
AREA Tvpeof Location;CSD, F,OBD, R 6 5,6.6, 6 ?
. ~ 6 9 6.8. 6 9 6 3, 6.9
P Metro Area Population (in
PHF Peak Hour Factgr ~.00 ~.00 [, 0 0 ~ (.0 0
fPPHF CombinedAd~ustment Factor
Traffic Characteristics
T Percent Trucks
fT Truck Factor, Table
R Percent Right Turns
fR Right Turn Factor, Table
L Percent Left Turns
fL Left Turn Factor, Table
E Type Bus Stop & Number/Hr.
fkS Local Bus Factor, Figure
fi
In[ermed[ate Factor
Fi = fA.fPPHF.fT.fR.fL-fLB
6.6
Level of Service A 8 C D E
LF Load Factor 0 .1 .1 .3 .3,7 .7-1.0
.85
Control Measures
Calculations
I, ?~q/,e4
Signal Cycle (Sec)
Rat,o
,c Co 0o,,teFactor :fi' O/O Inl i'N .St!
CSV Chart Service Vol. (Same figure as fA) I qoc I~0o ;lSD~ 5sd
Additional Comments
N4-v C. A~v A'F .L~-v~b ow <~6~,~c~ A E¢~rF 8~
henry a. zuckerman, associates
architects-planners
tides office buildinq~ route 25o. rocky point.new york.Il778'516-744.6188
October 23, 1978
Mr. John Wickham, Planning Board Chairman
Southold Town Hall
Main Road
Southold, New York 11971
Att: Mrs. Brush, Secretary
Re: Application for Site Plan Approval, Southold Commons -
west of properties owned by R. B. Grattan, Wetkowski
and others; east of Youngs Avenue - north of property
owned by D. Charnews; south of L.I.R.R. and others
Dear Mr. Wickham:
I represent Leon Weiner Associates on the above subject property. As you
may recall, we have had some preliminary discussions concerning the pro-
perty some months ago. The parcel was rezoned by the Town Board in May of
1972 and referred to the Planning Board for Site Plan Approval as one of
three conditions placed on the property. The other two conditions refer to
approval and construction of a sewage treatment plant.
My client is prepared to meet the conditions established. Accordingly, this
letter will confirm our meeting with the Planning Board on October 30, 1978
at 9:15 p.m. to discuss and analyze the site plan and to formerly make appli-
cation for Site Plan Approval.
Thank you for your cont~d cooperation.
/ /
ucke~ N. C .A.R. B.
HAZ:j~
cc: Mr. Bill Klatsky
Mr. Marvin S. Gilman
Also, please find enclosed a check No. 2445 dated 10/23/78 in the
amount of $25, representing accompanying fees for application for
site plan review and approval; all preliminary drawings (architectural
and site).
TO
Henry A. Zuckerman & AsOiates
Architects/Planners
Tides Office Building
Route 25 A
ROCKY POINT, NY 11778
(516) 744-6188
Mr. John Wickham, Planning Board Chairman
SouLhuld Tuw,, Hdll
Main Road
Southold, New York 11971
10/23/78
Mrs. Brush. Secretary
GENTLEMEN:
WE ARE SENDING YOU [~ Attached [] Under separate cover via
[] Shop drawings ~ Prints [] Plans
[] Copy of letter [] Change order []
[] Samples
the following items:
[] Specifications
COPIES DATE NO* DESCRIPTION
6 6/18/76 6 of 6 Southold Commons, Southold, New York - preliminary drawings -
(architectural and site)
THESE ARE TRANSMITTED as checked below:
[] For approval
[~ For your use
[] As requested
[] For review and comment
[] FOR BIDS DUE
[] Approved as submitted
[] Approved as noted
[] Returned for corrections
[]
19
[] Resubmit__
[] Submit
[] Return
copies for approval
copies for distribution
corrected prints
[] PRINTS RETURNED AFTER LOAN TO US
REMARKS
COPY TO_
SIGNED: Henry A. Zuckerman, R.A., N.C.A.R.B.
SOUTHOLD COMMONS
5/ /74
5/15/74 p.91
5/23/?4
5/3 /74
614174
6/24/74
6/27/74
7/lO/74
?/11/74
s/20/74
9/5/?4
9/ 5/?4
9/10/74
1/27/75 p.12
Received site plan
elevations
window schedule
foundation
floor plan
sprinkler
planting
community building
sewage collection
electrical specs
C/Z map
lighting plan
Ahlers appeared. Told to send in 5 more copies
Ahlers took back lighting plan. Gave him back his
sewage report
Ahlers brought in more copies of site plan
Gave Wickham, Raynor, Coyle and Moisa copies of
site plan. Wickham and Raynor also took sewage book
Received drainage plan and details (5 copies) Sent
to Wickham, Raynor, Moisa and Coyle
p.ll8 Board authorized to secure services of Ed Bage
Ed Bage came in. Told him to see Henry Raynor
Ahlers in making inquiry
Ed Bage picked up site plan from Henry today
Ed Bage brought back site plan and recommendations
Gave copy to Howard.
Received recommendations of Building Inspector
Sent both to Planning Board
Frank picked up site plan and copies of recommendations
of Bage and Terry
Howard suggests meeting with committee from
Planning Board and men from Building Inspector's office.
Told Ahlers check with Bage and Dean re curbs and
gutters. Find out from Monsell primary water source.
TOIVN OF SOUTHOLD, NEW yORK D^TEA~.-.gS 197
rubllc 6/t8/7
ACTION OF THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Appeal No. 1799
nate June 6, 1973
ACTION OF TH~ ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS ON THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
To Gaorge
Southold, l~ew York
AppeLlant
l~blic He.ting I
at a meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals on Oeoision of
was considered and the action indicated below was taken on your
( ) Bequest for variance due to lack of access to property
(X) Request for a special exception under the Zoning Ordinance
( ) Request for a variance to the Zoning Ordinance
( )
the appeal
1. SPECIAL EXCEPTION. By resolution of the Board it was determined that a special exception ( ) be
granted ( ) be deuled pursuant to A~tiele .................... Section .................... Subsection .................... paragraph
.................... of the Zoning Ordinance and the decision of the Building Inspector ( ) be reversed ( ) be
coo.firmed because 8550 P.~.I, (EoSoT.), upon application of George Ahlers
and ~ax~-~' Hellman, Cutchogue and $outhold, ~ew York~ respeotivsly,
for a special exception in accordance with the Zoning Ordinances
A_wtiele V, Section 500, Subsection B-l, for per. salon to erect
multiple dwellir~s. Location of propert¥~ west side Youn~s
Avenues Southold, bounded noz~th by Ds Charnsws! east by Youngs
Avenuel south by Lor~ Island Railroad, ~Lter, Averett, tLaelin
and othersl and west by Rs B. Grattan, t4etkowski and others.
Fee pa~d ~5.00.
2. VARIANCE. By resolution of the Board it was determined that
(a) Strict application of the Ordinance (would) (would not) produce
hardship because
SEE REVERSE
practical difficulties or unnecessary
(b) The hardship created (is) (is not) unique and (would) (would not) be shared by all properties
alike in the immediate vicinity of this property and in the same use district because
SE~ REYEI:~SE
(c) The variance (does) (does not) observe the spirit of the Ordinance and (would)
change the character of the district because
(would not)
SEE REVERSE
and therefore, it was further determined that the requested variance ( ) be granted ( ) be denied and
that the previous decisions of the Building Inspector ( ) be cor~fIrmed ( ) be reversed.
SEE RI~VERSE
FORM ZB4
ZO~NG BOARD OF APPEA.I.~
:~ia~Jorie 1.~cDermot% Secretary
Southold Town Board of Appeals
The Board f~nds by Lnvestl~ation and public he.rings that
a char~s of zone on applicant's property was recommended by the
$outhold Town ?lann~ Board to the Town Board on ~l~Ch 23,
1972o The zone was ohar~ed from 'A' Residenti°1 and AC~lo.ultural
on ~ay 9, 1972 to '~;-1', which petite Multiple l~el~in~s sy
~pac~al Exception of ~he ~o~ of Ap~e~s~ ~d e~te ~1~
app~v~ of the Pi~ ~. The s~te consists of 22,8~2
~res on which Xt is p~posed to e~ct ~een (l~) build~sf
~t over 12 ap~aenta per b~ld~e ~t ove~ 1~2 feet ~
leah (~ee V~i~oe Appe~ No, ~800)~ with a tot~ of~ 10~
one b~om ap~ments of app~ximately 82~ sq. ft, ~ ~2 ~
bed~o~ ap~ents of app~tely i~OQ~ sq. ft,~ ~d It
~[~ ~ol ~ oo~lty bulldi~ ~o te~s oo~s~
shuffle ~ co~ pl~d co~, ~d sew~e t~atment
pl~t w~th public water.
At a number of public hearings, the problems of character
and appearance, compatibility, development policies relationship,
community facilites relationship, traffic generation (approxi-
mately 933 vehicular trips esti~ated at completion), access,
drainage, design standards, and a sewage treatment plant, have
been carefully considered. The applicant is presently having
an engineering study made to determine the best sewage treatment
plant for the project, after which the design must be presented
to the Suffolk County Department of Environmental Control and
the Suffolk County Board of Health for approval. The several
Boards of the Town are concerned by the nitrates problem.
2~wever, it is felt that the solution of the denitrification
problem, as it applies to this project, lies with the Suffolk
County Board of Health. Oallona~e estim_~ted b~ the applicant
to make sewage plant operable is variously estimated from
10,000 to 30,000 gallons per day.
The Board finds that the public convenience and welfare
and Justice will be served and the le£ally established or per-
mitted use of neighborhood property and adjoining uae districts
will not be permanently or substantially injured and the spirit
of the Ordinance will be observed.
~REFORE IT WA~ RESOLVED, George Ahlers and BaA-A-y Hellman,
Cutche~ue and southold, ~ew York, respectively, be GH~TED
perm[esCort to erect 13 buildings, as originally applied for,
subject to the follow[n~ condit~ons,
1. Site plan approval by the Plannin~ Bos~ of the To~
of Bouthold.
2. ~o Certificates of Occupancy shall be issued by the
Building Inspector unless a Sewage Treatment Plant,
subject to the approval of the Suffolk Comity DepaA-tment
of Health and the suffolk County Department of
vironmental Control, is installed and certified operable by
these t~-o ~jencies.
3. The construction of the sewage treatment plant shall
also be subject to any applicable local, County, State,
or Federal law.
Vote of the Board~ A~es~- I~;eesrs! Gillispie, Bergen, Hulse,
Grigonie.
· '~s Board finds by investigation and public hearings that
a change of zone on applicant's proper~y was recommended by the
Sou'~hold Town Planning Board to the Town Board on ~tarcb 23,
1972. The zone was, changed from "A' Residen~ial and Agricultural
on ~:ay 9, 1972 to "~;-1'", which permits ~iultiple Dwelling~s by
Special Exception of the ~'card of Appeals, and site plan
approval of the Planning ~oard. The site consists of 22,842
acres on which it is proposed to erect thirteen (13) buildL-~s,
not over 12 apart~aenta per building, not over 132 feet in
length (See Variance Appeal No. 1800), with a total of, 10%
one bedroom apax-tments of approximately 82~ sq. ft., 32 two
~edroom apartments of approximately 1,005 sq. ft., and 16
".:fftciency apartments of approximately 625 sq. ft. Ai~o, a
SW~mm~n6 pool and community building, ~wo tennis Courts,
shuffle board court, playground court, and sewage treatment
plant with public water.
At a number of public hearings, the problems of character
am~ appeme, compatibility, development policies .relationship,
community facilites relat~-onahip, ~m~ffic generation (approxi-
mately 933 vehicular trips est'.sated at completion), access,
drainage, des~n s~mndards, and a sewage treatment plant, have
been carefull~ considered. The appliosnt is presently having
an engineering study made to determine ~he bas; sewage treatment
plant for ~he project, after which the design must be presented
to the Suffolk County Department of Environmental Control and
the Suffolk County Board of Health for approval. The several
Boards of the Town are concerned by the nitrates problem.
However, it is felt that the solution of the denitrification
problem, as it applies to this project, lies with the Suffolk
County -Board of Health. Oa~o~_~e estimated by the applicant
tO make sewage plant operable is variousl2 estimated from
10,000 to 30,000 gal/one per daM.
The Board finds that the public convenience and welfare
and Justice will be served and the legally established or per-
mitted use of neighborhood property and adJoinir~ use districts
will not be permanerftly or subs~ntially injured and the spirit
of the Ordinance will be obse~v~d.
TP~REFORE IT WAS RE$OLV~D, George Ahlers and BaA~-y Hellmsn,
Cu~chog-ue and Southold, ~lew York, respectively, be G~'ffED
permission to erect 13 buildings, as ori~inally applied for,
subject to the following conditions,
1. ~ite plan approval by the Pl~ru~in~ Board of the Town
of Bouthold.
2. ~o Cert[fica2es of Oocup~cy eh~l be issued by 2he
B~ld~ ~ector ~ese a 5ew~e '~ea~en~ Pl~t,
subjec~ ~ ~he ~p~v~ of ~he J~folk Co~y ~p~en~
of He~th ~ the S~folk Cowry Dep~ent of ~
vi~ent~ Contel, is inst~led ~d codified operable by
these ~o ~encies.
3. The concoction of the sew~e treatment pl~t sh~l
~o ~ s~J~t to ~y applicable loc~, Cowry, S~ate,
or F~e~ law.
Vote of the ~oard~ Ayes,- hessr~, Gilltmpie, ~er~en, hulse,
Grigonis.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-12-
June 28, 1973
MR. CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR.: This was done long before there
was a Zoning Board. We started in 1957. Before then you did
not,have to come before a Board.
After investigation and inspection the Board finds that
applicant requests permission to operate a second business
(Take-out Deli) on same premises with a public garage on the
north side of Main Road, Orient, New York. The findings of
the Board are that the area is zoned A~Ticultur~l-Residential
and this property was given a non-conforming use to operate as
a garage; ~nd that permitting another business in a non-conform-
ing business area would expand the use of the property on an
undersized lot. The members of the Board agree that it is.
beyond the scope of the Board of Appeals to grant this application;
and that the only solution to the problem would be for the applicant
to endeavor to have the zone cha~ed and to acquire additional
property.
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance
would not produce practical difficulties or unnocessary hardship;
the h~rdship created is not unique and would be shared by all
properties ~like'in the inuuediate vicinity of this property and
in the came use district; and the variance ~ill change the
character of the neighborhood, a/xd urlll not obsex~-e the spirit
of the Ordinance.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED, Joy Finkle and Millie Messeri be DENIED permission
tO operate a second business (Take-out Deli) on same premises
with public garage on the north side of ~in Road, Orient, New
York, for the reasons stated.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Hulse,
Grigonis.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No..1799 - 8:30 P.M. (E.S.T.),
upon application of George Ahler~ ~nd Barry Hellman, Outchogue
and Southold, respectively, for = special exception in
~th the Zo~nE 0rdin~oe~ Article V, Section ~00, Subsection ~-1~
for ~ermission to erect multipl~ dwellings. Location
west side Yo~s Avenue~ Southold, bonded north by D.
east by Yo~s Avenue; south by Lon~ Island R=ilr~ad~
~elin ~d others; ~d west by R. B. Gratt~, Wetkows~ and ~thers~
Fee paid $1~.00.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a special exception, legal notice of hearing, affidavits
attesting to its publication in the official newspapers, and
notice to the applicant.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -13- June 28, 1973
TB~ CHAIRMA~ By way of back,round, I might say that this
change of zone ~s recommended by the Planning Board in a letter
addressed to the Southold To~ Bo~d on ~rch 23, 1972.
reason I ~ loo~ over the records of the Sou~hold To~
~d the Southold To~ pln~n~n~ Bo~d i~ that "M-I"
Zonin~ which ~s created by th~ To~ Bo~d, c~n o~y be used
~der application to the Southold To~ Bo~rd of Appeals ~d
si~e pl~ approv~ of the Pl~nin~ Board. I ~ lookin~ at
t~t is a reco~ of a To~ Bo~-d hearing, w~ch ~a for ~y
pa~es, ~ whi~ ~so centana = feral ~2~ement of zone
by the To~ 01erks Alber~ W. Rio~ond, coverin~ this proper~y,
ch~in~ from "A" Residenti=l-A~ic~t~al ~o "M-l" M~ti~le
Residence~ ~y 9~ 1972. ~s he~in~ ~a reconvened from the
meetin~ h~l of the Supe~sor~ office to $1=e ~si~ of
Greenport High So, el at 8sO0 P.M. Pre~ent a~ this he~ln~
were Supe~sor ~ber~ M. ~rtocohia~ Justices ~tin Surer ~d
~uis De~est~ Co~oilmen ~r-~n ~d Rich.
Evidenee wns given by the applicantu. Many people presented
objections! some spoke for it. I ~rlll read some letters from
the Planning Board which I believe are pertinent.
The Chairm~- read letter dated June 22, 1973, addressed
to Mr. Robert W. Gillispie, Jr., Chairman of the Southold Town
Board of Appeals, as follows: "In general the Plam~ning Board
does not approve of v~ri=nces on new conotI~Aetion after the ~ite
plan has been approved or at lemst finalized. ~ere might, how-
e~er~ be some exten~i~ Ciroums~oes if =11 of the ~its
~ontained 850 sq~re feet ~d the ~nim~ distress between ~1
the buildings ~s strictly obse~ed. The Plan= ~oard mi~t
be inclined to look more favorably on this if the pri~r~
p~ose were to ~ke the livi~ ~ts more spacious." Si~ed-
Jo~ Wiok~n, Ch-ir~n, Southold To~ P~-~ Board.
T}~ CHAIRMAN: There seems to have been some misconception
about a variance in oo~.neotion %rlth the length of the building.
It was explained to us when we a~reed to accept the application
for a variance that the purpose was to enlarge the kitchens.
After looking over the plans, we decided that slightly more
kitchen space would be highly desirable. There is a 125t
~rbitrary length requirement in the Zoning 0rdinanee which is
a figure that ~s literally determined without ~Lny specific
guide lines. Thus, you can prevent someone from building one
long building in the Multiple D~ellin~ Zonin~ Ordinance but it
does not cover the width of the building. The applicant could
increase the area of the apartments by increasing the width
in the interest of facilitating an orderly plan, we thought that
it would be advisable to entertain an application for a 7j length
variance. With regard to what )~. Wiol~h=m h~s said about 890 sq.
there is no minimum standard in the Zoning 0rdin~nce for size of
apartments except what is determined by the Multiple Residence Law
ef the State of New York and the $outhold Town Housing 0ode.
$outhold To~n Board of Appeal~
-14- June 28, 1973
As I went over the plans I saw that the proposal is for
1105~one bedroom apartments - 825 sq. ft., 1,005 sq. ft. for
'~W~ bedroom apartments~ and 645 sq. ft. for efficiency apartments.
MR. GEORGE ABLERS~ The total should come to 153 units.
THE CHAIRMANI The layout of the 13 buildings has been
prepared. On the site plea% is shown the 13 buildings contained
within a~ oval which has entrsaxce ~nd egress, ~nd parking spaces
on the periphery in the center of the mall. There is a pool and
commuzxity building (enclosed), a sitting area, shuffleboard cou~t
and playground. Also~ a sewage plant which is off to the southeast
and some distance from the nearest buildings.
TB~ CHAIRMAn: Is there anyone present who ~ishes to spea/~
for this application?
MR. JOP~ R. McNULTY~ Riverhead: I would like to ma/ce it a
part of the record that it has been through several Boards. One
of the po/~xts to be brought out here is that ~he se~age treatment
plant w~uld be located in the southwest portion of the premises
and that would be adjacent to the Long Island ~atlroad~ and also
adjacent to a fertilizer plant of A~way to the east, which %~uld
seem to be the proper place for a sewage plant.
HR. ROBERT ~ERG~N: Do I understand that you want to extend
~11 30 bu/ldinge by ? feet?
THE CHAIPu~AN~ Actually the variance applies only to the
length of the buildings ~n4~ as I have explained here~ you could
make these buildings 100~ wide.
MR. McNULTY~ The problem is that the kitchen is narrow.
I submit that this is an ideal location for this ty~e of structure.
It is within walking distance of the village and the se~ge
treatmen~ pl~t wo~d be in ~ appropriate area.
T~ C~ I~ Is adjacent to existi~ industrial property.
I thi~ there ~s some discussion as to whether it would be
500 fee~ of ~ Road. It is not.
~, Mc~ I don~t t~ it's more t~ 500 feet from
~he railroad to ~in Road.
~ C~: It's accessible to the village, has public
~ter~ ~d ~u pl~ a se~ge treatment pl~t.
~. A~RS~ ~atever the Cowry requires ~11 be done.
~ve si~ed a contract ~th P~xfioation Systems of Ooeanside.
~s t~es ~unsiderable ~ime to get t~ough the Cowry Environmental
Control.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -15- June 28, 1973
'A'~ C~: The new Multiple Residence Law applies in
this situation, and the Southold To~n Building Code also applies.
The Suffolk County Environmental Control ~Toup is involved
also New York State Environmental Control.
MR. AP~.MRS~ I think it is State Environmental, County
Environmental ~nd the Board of He=lth.
TH~ CHA~R/4A/~: I thin~ that as f~r as any questions bein~
raised as to density, this is within the li~tts of the zoning
laws of 1971. You need site plan approval by the Planning Board,
loc&rich of pa~ lots, la/xdsoaDing~ otc,
F~. AHE/~RS~ None of this cs.n be done until we find out if
you ~e goin~ to extend the buildings.
TH~ CHAIPJ~A~ The nitrate problem is one ~hat has not been
solved yet.
MR. AHLERS~ From what · c~n gather from the engineering
company that will be building =he pls~nt, They a~e submitting
proposals to the Oounty. I ~de~st~d ~h~t in S~folk Co~y
=here ~e no operatio~l ~erti~y pl~s. One is ~oin~ =o De
built in P~tcho~e. ~e Oo~y Is experimentl~ with t~ or
t~ee difx'ere~ t~es to see w~t is most effio~en=. 'A~ere ~e
~n~ processes ~ end,needs ~ ~il worK. There i~ no' ~a~a
~olleo~ed yet ~ ~he 0o~y. T~s is ~1 ~enitrific~i~n.
'A'H~ C~AIRMA~ The ordix~ary tertiary sewage plant has done
nothing about denitrification, which leads me to a question that
has puzzled me. As I unaerstand it you need a certain flow before
you o~n m~e the p~-~ ~r~ a~ ~1. if yOU ~ve aOout ~0 ~ts~
~o you ~ow W~ the co~t ~d Se?
MR. A/~LERS~ The Cou~tTuses, on a oeuroo~a count, M~O-3OO
~llons per day. I thxn~ ~he State law reads up to 30~00u ~llons
~or multxple dwellings. If the total flow did not come up to
~0~000 ~allons, you would not h~ve to put a se%r~ge plant in.
THE CHAXRMAN~ Ass,,m~ngyouhave to have a certain flow, what
w~uld you anticipate the number of units would be?
individ,,n] apartments.
TH~ C}LAIR~4/~ Will each one of theso bnildin~s h=ve the
same mixture of t]rpes of apartments as the other bu/ldings?
MR..al-n','m-RS: Tixere will be a mixture. The buildings are
labelled "A", "B", arid "C".
TP~E CHAI/IMA~ Wh~t w~uld be the aequence of development?
Southold Town Board of Appeals -16-
June 28, 1973
MR. Am.mRS: We would start with the firs~ four or five
buildings. We .would put the roadm in, branch feeder lines.
Electric underground wirtng h~s to be done prior to pavin~
the roads. Once the sewage treatment plant has been approvedv
we ~rlll continue on.
T~E CHAIRMAN: AssumAn~you start with five buildingsf how
many dwell/x~,m~ts will that be?
MR, A.'m'-~-RS: Sixty.
THE CHAIRMAN~ How m.~y bedrooms in the first.five?
MR. ~1%S: A-1 has one bedroom, B is Efficiency Apartments
a~d C has two bedrooms. Rouw. hly this would be 60 apartments.
It may be that we would only build the flr~t four. I spoke to
Mr. Wickh~m on the telephone one day ~nd I t,hin/c he told me
someth/n$ like 45 units. We ~uld have to have temporary cess-
pools.
TP~ CHAI/~M~ How fast do you want to proceed?
MR. ABLERS~ As soon as we possibly can.
TH~ CHA/dtMA~: ~nere is a letter here from a bam~k indicatin~
a willingness to consider financing.the project predicated upon
proper sonin~ a/xd economic fe~sibilxty. One of the conditions
stipulated by Mr. Wiokb-m in a letter to N~.Pat Realty Corp.
dated Januax~ 18, 1~73 (oopie~ to Supervisor Martocchia and
Robert Tasker~ Esq.) is that sewage treatment pl~ts must be
wor~ when one third of the ~ts are occupied. (~s condition
~s set do~ by the Southold To~ Board). ~so, the Suffolk
Co~t~ ~p~ment of Envi~nent~ Control ~s issued ~ ~lin~
as of J~ 1~ 1972, that ~trate removal in ~1 sewer pl~ts
nitrate re~v~ pl~ts are not perfected ~d that "We ~e br~n~n=
this to yo~ attention because the nitrate levels in the To~ of
Southold ~ve become extremely critical ~d pose ~ i~edi=te
t~ea~ to public health ~d ~ety. ~or t~s reason the Plain=
~d c~ be e~eoted to insist on ri=id co~li~ce to this
req~rement." ~ y~u ~ers~ "when one t~rd of the ~ts
MR. HOWARD TERRY, Buildir~Inspector: They have h~d con-
vereatio~ ~th J, ~Ly~.~s staff on these private sewer pl~ts.
Basio~ly~ the~ he~d ~t they sh~d ~ve 50 ~ts ~o ~ve
sufficient flow.
Seuthold Town Board of Appeals -17- J~u~e 28, 1973
THE CHAIRMA/~: 1,005 sq. ft. is. a generous size. I don't
agree that all people want 850 sq. ft. You only plan 16
efficiencies, the bull= of the units would be 825 sq. ft. (10.~
of them), ~nd 50 two bedroom apartments would be 1,005 sq. f~.
This Board has to come up ~ith a decision and if this is
granted we have to impose conditions that ~ill meet all the
vs~--ying de~ands as to how -~ny buildings there ~-ill be, when
you are goin~ to put the sewr~e pl~t in, when the roads, ~en
the playgrounds, etc.
MR. AHLERS: One of the first things would be roads.
h~ve to put dry sewer lines ~n and underWround electrical
facilities for the buildings.
MR. HOWARDTERRY, Building Inspector: All utilities have
to go underground for ~I1 thirteen buildings.
THE CHAIRMAN~ You may only be able to build five buildings
~nd then five or ten years later, five or so more buildings.
MR. A/~RS: I ~ould disagree with ~. ~icl~ham as to the
time lapse. The engineers think they can solve this problem.
As to speed of construction: We would have to build the first
five buildings (50 mnits). As lor~ as the demand is great
enough and the sewage treatment is on line~ we would continue
~ith anether bu~ldin~. The initial buildings would have to have
cesspools. I would assume they would be nea~ the buildin=s.
Cesspools have no mechanical pumping.
THE CHAIRMAN: If your se~ge treatment plant went out, how
would eight or nine buildings get to these cesspools?
MR. A/tLERS: I know the County will tell me what I have to
do and what I don't ~ave to do. I am sure the County Health
Department has rules ar~ regulations which lay things all out.
The sewage treatment plant is me,toted daily. We intend to
si~ a contract ~t~ a f~m t~t ~11 ~intain ~d ~ the
ee~=e treatme~lt ~la~t. Ve~ strict records we kept.
MR. ~0WARD TERRY$ Tats has to be done by a licensed
person°
MR. AHLERS: Probably the Resident Manager woul~ ~ve to
have a license for day to day ou~e, ~nd the firm would tm/~e care
of the neeessaa--/ chemicals for the operation of the plant. There
are standby generators. It is a package type
T~ CHA~R~L~N: We don~t have authority in this field.
Presumably sewage problems will be contained.
Sout~bld To~rn Board ox' Appea2. s -18-
June 28, 1973
MR. AHLERS=
from six months
plants.
The County is very strict abo~t this. It ts/~es
to a year to get approval on sewage treatment
THE CHAXRMA~= There was something in the minutes about
hau/ing away solid waste.
MR. TERRY: It depends on the t}Te of plant.
MR, ARLERS~ It seems that both the Planning Board and the
Town Board saw a need for such units. ~ny people in the real
estate business say there is no place to rent out here..
T}~ CHAIPu%L4~N= People dontt want to see the Town change. I
think the Town ~oard reoo~aized that there is a need.
MR. ARLERS= Our intention is to make the buildings Colonial
in style so they b-111 blend with the area.
THE CHAIHMANg There are many other objections to apartments.
I jotted down the usual criteria.., character and appearance,
compatibility ~rith the surtout, ding area, etc. This will not
interfere w~th any known development policy of the County or
Town. Some of the other things are= how close to a shopping
center is it?.,~ traffic generation (I think they use the
fi~lre of 6.1)... entrances ~nd exits, drainage~ etc. Access
appears to be good.
MR. A/-ILERS: As far as drainage goes~ it's almost all sand.
There is one low spot with a slight amount of clay but the rest
Of it is sand.
THE CHAIRMAN: Another point is desicn standards.
MR. AHLERS: Our architect is Sigmund Spiegel. He sits on
the State Board on zoninK matters~ and also on another Board. He
is very well known.
THE CHAIRMAN: That's a vor~ rough list of the criteria the
County uses.
MR. A/4T~RS~ I spoke tot he assistant to ~4r. Koppol=~n ~nd
his opinion of the project ~r~s that ho thought it ~.s needed
~nd very well thought out.
Southold To~rn Board of Appeals -19-
June 28, 1973
MRS. JEAN TIEDK~: I would like to corn=end you on the
variety and size of the apartments.
TH~ CHAIRMAN: Does anyone else wish to speak for this
application?
There was no response.)
TH~ CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone present who wishes to speak
agains~ this application?
There ~s no response.)
TH~ CHAIRMAN: I assume that some of the people who are
present are here for information.
MR. W. D. WELLS: I would like to have a clear understanding
of wh~t the traffic will be on ¥oung's Avenue when 6.1 people per
unit are using it.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is 6.1 vehicle trips per day.
MR. WELLS= They will be using Young's Avenue.
THE CHAIRMAN: This is per dwelling unit. Their figure might
be a little different. There won't be 900 vehicle trips unti~
many years from now,
MR. WELLS: Where are the trucks and equipment going to come
from, Route 27 or Route 25? I c~=x tell you that the noise and
traffic right now are excessive. That's the first objection.
CHAIRMAN: I don't know how we can retain traffic.
MR. WELLS: I don't think it was clearly explained about these
septic tanks that will be put in temporarily. I don~t know how
this will work out with residents in the immediate vicinity,
THE CHAI~V~_N~ This is on = 22 acre tract and presumably these
septic tahks~ or whatever they are required to build theret will
not affect the whole area.
MR. WELL~: Then there is the n~tter of nitrates. We are at
the danger point now.
THE CHAIRMAN~ We can't solve thie problem now.
THE CHAIRMAN: Does anyone else wish to speak?
Southol~ Town Board of Appeals -20-
June 28, 1973
MR. A~LERS: The only thing I might point out is that existing
homes on Youngls Avenue all have one or two cesspools. The nitrate
count in that area is exceptionally high. The point that I am
making is that with the County's new regulations requiring septic
tanks in addition to cesspools, this is a far superior manner of
handling it. We had to start doin~ that in 1972. A septic tan/c
is a holding tank in which bacterial action takes place. In
actuality the cese pool is holding solids with a higher nitrate
content but for a private dwelling today we have to put in a 900
gal. septic tank plus cesspools.
MR. WELLS: You have to solve the nitrate problem.
MR. AHLERS: We will have a fa~ greater recovery rate and
purer w~ter. If this project were done as one family homes it
would be a different matter. The fact that you have a sewage
treatment plant is really an advantage. The Health Department
says you should h~ve 100' between well points and cesspool. They
will allow you to go within 65 feet.
MRS. MARG~ HARRIS: When there is a big storm ¥oun~'s
Avenue looks like the Erie Ca~=l. ~at are you doing about storm
sewers? In front of one property you have what amounts to a dike.
MR. AHLERS: There is a low spot. I think probably what it
has been is that the wash from the property has deposited soil
during the years of soil erosion.
TH~ CHAIRMAN: The Planning Board will be involved in site
pl~n approval and will undoubtedly require drainage.
MRS. HARRIS~ I just hope they don't plan to tie it in with
the sewer. What h~ppens if technolo~-/ is not forthcoming on the
nitrates. Can they plead hardship ~nd just put in cesspools?
THE CHAIRMAN~ Thatls a very interesting question but I don't
believe I have the answer for it. The Planning Board have said in
their letter of June 28th that they are"prepared to insist on the
absolute performance of each of these conditions and this becomes
pertinent because although the County has set a date for the
installation of denitrification equipment, there is currently no
acceptable process. Nevertheless, because each of the developers
has been notified and because denitrification is vitally importu_nt
in the Town of $outhold, the Pla.~nin~ Board will insist on strict
performance. This probably means that the second tLalf of the units
in all such developments now being planned will be postponed for
as ~uch as five or ten years. The Planning Board is prepared to
instruct the Building Inspector to withold certificates of
occupancy until all these conditions are met, but it would seem
that the Board of Appeals might =1so require this as one of the
conditions for approval under their special exceptions".
Presumably if the problem is not solved, it won't block all housin~
in the United S~atee.
Southold To~n Board of Appeals
-21-
June 28, 1973
MRS. HARRIS: You are coming in the back door with the whole
plan. You may finish half and your technology will not have been
solved· I would like to see the technology forthcoming.
THE CHAIRSL~N: The point I w~s trying to make is that this
would block all building. It is not Just here but over many
sections of the country.
MRS. TIEDKE: Mr. Halzmacher appeared here in Greenport and
he was suggesting that it would be five or ten years before a
really workable nitrification system was available·
MRS. HARRIS: I agree that housing is desperately needed but
it's these little technical things that I get hung up on.
MR. McNULTY: If the nitrate problem was not solved, would we
then be able to plead hardship and install cesspools? The point is
that the nitrate problem has nothing whatever to do with a sewage
treatment plant. The sewage would be treated by the plant. We
would not go back into cesspools.
THE CHAIRMAN: In another year or two there may be other
things that are discovered in the soil or air. We have ecologists
in conflict as to what is feasible and what is not.
MR. AHLERS: In talking with the engineers about the pla~,
we have found that they are working on the construction of a
sewage treatment plant in a new town which has been developed by
Brookhaven. It is a tremendous area. We have had estimates on
the plant which we propose ranging between $250~000 to $300,000
to construct and this is what we anticipate.., about $1,500 per
unit. It would be almost double w~h~t cesspools would cost.
MRS. TIE~KE~ What kind of facade will this have?
MR. A~LERS: Shingles, clapboard, brick· We have given the
Plam_ning Board varieus facades· They will all be Colonial in n~ture.
We brought several photographs to the Planning Board and asked
which ones they like. Mr. Wtckham said that they can't dictate
design but indicated the one he prefers so that is the one we will
select · I
THE CHAIRMAN: Tl~e Town Board struggled with this problem,
whether Or not to do it at all, and I think it was a farsighted
move because I believe you have to have more than grid develop-
ments on Long Island. I would like to poll the Board with respect
to their giving me the authority to write all the conditions with
the Town Counsel, with the help of the Planning Board, so that we
may come up with a decision so that these people can get moving·
Ayes:- Messrs: Bergen, Hulse, Grigonis.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -22-
June 28, 1973
THE OHAI~MAN~ ~"ne actual decision will be made =t a public
meeting. We donet know hew ion= it will take to ~et all this
co~elatedo The Board approves ~ubject to defining the oondition~
of whatever needs to be stipulated in the Action° You have
tentative approv~l with regard te the disouusion we have.had
here tonight.
On motion by Mr. Bergen, seconded by Mae Hulse, it w~s
RESOLVED that Robert We Gilllspie, Jr., Chair~n of the
Southold Town Board of Appeals be GRANTED the authority to
write the conditions applying to Appeal No. 1799 urith the aid
of To~n CouneeLand the Southold To~n Planning Bo~rd..
Vote of the Boa~d~ Ayes;- ~essrs: Bergen, HtLlset Grigonis.
PUBLIC HEA~ING~ Appeal No. 1800 - 8:45 P.M. (E.S.T.), upon
application of George Ab_lets a~d Earry Hell=~n, Cutcho~ue and
Southold, respectively, for a variance in accordance with the
Zoning 0rdinancee Article V, Section 30~, for permission to
construct multiple dwellings with some buildings over 125~feet
in length. Location of property: ~est side ¥oungs Avenue,
Southold~ bounded north by Do C.harnews; east by Youn=s Avenue;
South by Long Island Railroad, M~ier, Ay.reft, ~elin and other~;
and west by Re B. Grattan, Wetkowski a~d others. Fee paid $15.00.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance~ legal notice of he,ring, affidavits attesting to
its publication ~n the official newopapers, and notice to the
applicant.
THE CHAIR~L~N: Is there ~-nyone present who wishes to spe~k
for this application?
M~. GEORGE A~RS: I think we have covered, basically, the
reason* for wan~ing to exceed 12~ feet. %"~.en we ~ot the drawings
from Mr. Spiegel we found that the kitchen5 were a corridor type
of kitchen, approximately 7 feet in ~dth and 10 feet long, withou~
~ eating area. We felt that to =ke the people who would be renting
these apartments, mostly senio~ citizens, e~t ~11 their meals in
~he dinin~ room did not ~e sense. We decided we ~uld like to
allow for an eat-in kitchen. I thi~ we have com~ up with = good
la~out~ rather ~ique as f~ as =p~tment house kitchenm ~re
concerned. It added 3 fee~ to ~ho ~dth of ~ho dining room also~
which ~de the whole thin~ more rentable and more co~or~&ble.
~s ~s o~ reason for doin~ it.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-23-
June 28, 1973
HR. JOHN R. McA~UOLTY, Riverhe~d: When we were before the
Planning Board on approval of site pla~, the Planning Board
indicated that they would give us tentative approval if the
Board of Appeals ~r~nted us a v=mi~nce. They had no objections
to the plac:i.x~ of the units.
THE CPIAIRMAN~ Does anyone else wish to speak?
There was no response.)
TPEE CHAIRMAN: It's about a 4% increase in the maximum range
according to our Zoning Ordinance. There is no limit on the width
in the Zoning Ordinance so the applicant ia not achieving anything
for himself that he could not have achieved in another way. The
space c~ua be utilized better by lengthening rather than wideninG.
HR. AHLERS~ All other requirements will be met. We may shift
the buildings a little bit so they will meet all requirements.
THE CHAIRMAN: There will have to be one ~nd a half spaces
for parking for each dwelling unit plus one ~nd a half spaces for
each employee.
THE C~J~IRMANz Is there anyone present who wishes to speak
a~ainst this application?
There was no response.)
After investigation and inspection the Board finds that
applicant requests permission to construct multiple dwellinG
with some buildings over 125 feet in length located on the west
side of Young~s Avenue, Southold, New York. The findings of
the Board are that applicant wishes to construct multiple
residences with each building having a length of 132 feet, an
increase of 7 feet .~ The Ordinance requires that buildings
should not exceed 125 feet. The petitioners wish to increase
the size of the kitchens in each unit to allow for eat-in space.
It is the feeling of the petitioners that the additional 7 feet
will not detract from the aesthetic value of the units and will
not increase any density of population or any increase upon the
ecological burdens of the area. The Board a~rees with the reasonir~T
of the applicant.
The Board finds tt~t strict ~pplic~tion of the Ordin=noe
would produce practical difficulties or unnecesm~y h=rdship;
the hardship created is unique a~nd would not be shared b~ all
properties alike in tho immediate vicinity of this property ~nd
in the same use district~ and the variance will not change the
character of the neighborhood and ~ill observe the spirit of the
Ordinance.
Southold Town Board of Appea~s -2~-
June 28, 1973
On motion by AMt. Grigor~, seconded by Mr. Hulse, it w~s
· RESOLVED, George Ahlers ~d Barry He!im~n, Cutchogue
Southold, respectively, be GPu~NTED permission to construct
multiple dwellings with some (or all) buildings over 125 fee~
in length on the west side of ¥oung~s Avenue, Southold, New
York, as applied for, for the reasons stated, subject to the
fellewin~ conditions:
1. That the increase sh~ll be no larger th~n 7 feet.
2. That there shall be no other increase in the size
of the buildings.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
igonis.
PUDLI0 ItEARING~ Appeal No. 1801 - 9:00 P.M. - upon
application of Oar1 H. Schoeff, Hobart Road, Southold, New York,
for a variance in accordance ~rlth the Zoning Ordinance, Article
III, Section 301 ~nd the Bulk Schedule, for permission to divide
lots with dwellings which do not have sufficient area or frontage.
Location ef property: Hobart and 01d Shipyard Lane, SeuthoId,
Lot #41, Map ef Founders Estates. Fee paid $15.00.
The Chairman opened the hemring by reading the application
for a variancet legal no£ice of hearing, affidavits attesting
to its publication in the official newspapers, ~nd notice to the
applicant.
T}IE CHAIRMAN: This application covers a piece of property
in single and separate ownership on 01d Shipyard Lane. There are
two houses, one with an attached garage and one with a separate
garage. The applicant proposes to divide at a point most
advantageous to each.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there ~nyone present who wishes to speak
for this application?
DR. CARL SCH00FF: I have stated my reasons in the application.
The first houset a cottage was built about 24 years ago. We built
the second house about 20 ye~ a~o when we decided to move
permanently to Southoldo Goldsmith Brothers and Jack Harrell
advised us to build a permanent house on the corner of the same
plot. We have occupied that house for 20 years but I wish to
retire frum dental practice and live in the smaller cottage and
sell the larger house.
M~S. JEAN TIEDKE: As a neighbor of Dr. Schooff, I think it
is a log-lcal thing for him to do.
Tom oF SOUTHOLO, aw YO~ DA~ ...... 4.~...28, 197~
ACTION OF THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Appeal No. 1300 Dated Jun,, 6, 1973
ACTION OF TtFE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS OF THE TOWN' OF SOUTHOLD
AppeLant
at a meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals on J~ ~8, 1973
was considered and the action indicated below was taken on your
) Request for variance due 'to lack of access to property
) Request for a spec/al exception under the Zoning Ordinance
kRequest for a variance to %he Zoning Ordinance
)
the appeal
1. SPECIAL EXCEPTION. By resolution of the Board it was determined that a special exception ( ) be
granted ( ) be denied pursuant to Article Section .................... Subsection .................... paragraph
.................... of the Zoning Ordinance and the decision of the Building Inspector ( ) be reversed ( ) be
2. VARIANCE. By resolution of the Board it was determined that
(a) Str/ct application of the Ordhmnce (would) (would not) produce
hardship because
practical difficulties or unnecessary
(b) The hardship created (is) (is not) unique and (would) (would not) be shared by all properties
al/ko in the immediate v/c/nity of this proDerty and in the same use distric~ because
(c) The variance (does) (does not) observe the spirit of the Ordinance and (would)
change the character of the district because
(would not)
and therefore, it was further determined that the requested variance ( ) be granted (
that the previous decisions of the Building Inspector ( ) be confirmed ( ) be reversed.
) be de~ed and
FORbI ZB4
ZON/NG BOARD OF APPEALS
("
I~'DWAI~D J, FIAGE: ~
Post Office Box 972 - Southo~d, New York
5~6-765 168!
August
Ltr. No. 124
"~'· Southoid Conml,;~,c
Southold Town Planning Board
Uouth~,ld~ New York 11971
Gentlemen:
Upon raviewina the pl~;s ~' · "~
~ o_ South_~id U~mmor;,., I offer
following commen~s:
Site Oavelopmsn~
l. ,',~o sit= drainage is cho:~:~. ~s this
by using ;_eaching ba,~r~ or recharge
Final elevation oontdurc ar,~ o~t ~hown. rheas
should be aa ar?anged us t,~ ,qr~:,rtud~ in~e?u~tion of
the natural drai~ago ~a~;terns of adjacent lan:J
preclude drainage ffri, m this parcel
4. ~o ¢enoin~ shown a~O,.F,d ~;;:L~=~,~, disoo£.=l O ~,%.
NO screening planting sh:~;m arownd se rag~ ~i ~ ~-'
plant.
Site LiQhtirlg
Light intensit7 l~vels of' individual !a,?p; ~s :o~
shown. When selecting lsmps~ the minimum ~Jnht
intensity between adjace~t
least equal to everaEe r~loJnlight or u. U2
2. No lamps shown in tennis court drea and s wa~,~ disF -J.--!
plant area.
EDWARD d. BAGE
Post Office Box 972 '" Sout~o!d, F:e~v York
516-765 168~
11971
~ater Nain
1. The main coming in ¢r:;m Hzr;~n L~;r:~ sh~ul~ be ~
£ncl:es in diameter.
An addiBional 4 inch fEsd into central lo~p
be provided. I~ should bL; located diagom~llv
opposite tbs existin~i ~ inch
The central loop should cootain ~solatiwn
so that the entire uomplsx ne~d not b~ sh~;t :Oo~,n
in tl~e event, of a
TEL.
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
OFFICE rlf BUILDING INSPECTOR
TOWN OLERK'S OFFICE
GOUTHDLD, N. Y. 119'71
September 5, 1974
Southold Town Planning Board
Town Clerk Office
Southold, New York
Gentlemen:
The proposed development of "Southold Commons" has not
followed correct procedure to date according to the current
Zoning Ordinance.
I have not received the three sets of complete plans as
required.
I have "borrowed" a set of plans for Preliminary comments
as follows:
1. There appears 1 (one) too many apartment units for
land area (Proposed Managers apartment)
Parking should be provided for a minimum of 231
spaces @ 350 sq.ft, each=80,850 sq.ft, plus all
roads with no parking allowed. Some parking areas
shown are not 15 ft. from buildings as required.
Certain areas should be fenced and/or screened,--
Swimming pool, tennis court, sewer plant, parking
lots on exterior side of premises, etc. Schedule
for same should be shown.
"On premises" control of all drainage-including
"run-off" from outside of property lines coming on
these premises. May possibly need a "recharge"
basin w/fence. See Edward Bage report of Aug. 15.
Specifications for all drainage structure pipes etc.
to be spelled out in detail and approved by Town
Engineer & Planning Board for 6" rainfall.
All-paving specifications for roads, R.O.W.'s, walks,
paths etc. and any other incidental requirements be
spelled out in detail and approved by Planning Board
& Town Engineer.
11.
12.
13.
14.
What kind & size sign and where to be located?
Any interior directional sign?
Access Right of Way to Horton Lane runs through
"A" Zone-not permited under Sec. 110-112-L.
Current map does not show all adjacent owners
names-(4 sides)
No street lights or flood lighting plans shown-See
Ed Bage report-Aug. 15th. Also, is P.A. System
proposed? Must have restraints imposed on such a
system.
Has there been plan for Tennants Association to pick
up any maintanance or service expenses?
Have all utility services-Electric, water, sewer,etc
been approved by Supplying Agencies and Supervising
Agencies? I would recommend minimum 8" water mains
with at least 4 fire hydrants.
I question window areas in some of the apartments as
shown on plan submitted. What is the building schedule -
which will be first? and how many in each group?
Be sure all utilities are in road bed before final
grading, curbing or paving and road has at least a base
treatment and surface before Building Permits are re-
quested or issued.
I would like to sit down with a committee from the Planning
Board and one of my Inspectors who will be following this up, to
assure all points will be covered before you give any approvals.
It appears some items may have to be sent back to the Board
of Appeals for exception before final approval can be given.
Y~s trul~,~
Howard Terry
Building Inspector
HT:jk
EDWARD ,I. BAGE
PROFESStONAL ENGINEER
Post Office Box 972 · Southold, New York
516-765-1681
11971
~ugust 15, 197~
Ltr. No. 124
RE: Southold Commons
Southold Town Planning Board
Southold, New York 11971
Gentlemen:
Upon reviewing the plans for Southold Commons I offer the
foiiowing comments:
Site Development
1. No site drainage is shown. Is this to be accomplished
by using leaching basins or recharge basins?
Final elevation contours are not shown. These contours
should be so arranged as to preclude interuption of
the natural drainage patterns of adjacent land and to
premlude drainage from this parcel onto adjacent land.
3. No access road to sewage disposal plant shown.
4. No fencing shown around sewage disposal plant.
5. No screening planting shown around sewage disposal
plant.
Site Llqhtin9
Light intensity levels of individual lamps are not
shown. When selecting lamps, the minimum light
intensitv between adjacent lamps should be at
least equal to average moonlight or 0.02 foot-candles.
2. No lamps shown in tennis court area and sewage disposal
plant area.
EDWAI~D J. BABE
PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER
Post Office Box 972 · Southold, New York 11971
516-765-1681
Water Nain
1. The main coming in from Horton Lane should be 8
inches in diameter.
An additional N inch feed into centrsl loop shou~
be provided. It should be located diagonally
opposite the existing ~ inch feed.
The central loop should contain isolation valves
so that the entire complex need not be shut down
in the event of a failure.
Respectfully submitted,
Mr. George Ahlers
Eugene Road
Cutchogue, New York 11935
Re: Southold Commons
Dear Mr. Ah~ers:
I am enclosing the pertinent part of the zoning
ordinance as pertains to site plans.
Basically, you should include a site plan, floor
plan, elevations and a planting plan.
I have set aside an appointment for you at 9:00 p.m.
on Wednesday, May 15th to present your plans to the
Planning Board. Any questio~s~u may have you can
discuss with them at that time.
If you are unable to m, ke this appointment,
p%ease get in touch with me.
Yours truly,
Enclosure
Muriel Brush, Secretary
Southold Town Plar~ing Board
June 28, 1973
~. Robert #. Gillispie, Jr., Chairman
Southold Town Board of Appeals
Town Office
Main Road
8outhold, New York 11971
Dear Mr. Gillispie:
The Planning Board has notified each developer contemplating
~_~a~_.tr~tment plant }hat_they will be expected to co~ply
~&~ w~fl r.'lO reclu~remen~s O£ the Town and Co~lnty.
~..Th~.se ~equ~re.men~s. include the co~pletion and operation
&ooep~t. --,- ~y An lieu si ~ns~ruotton will not ~
The Planning Board is prepared to insist on the absolute
~neren~ntC~l,::oh_?~ these conditions auld this
...... a+~nough the County has set a date for the
znstalla=lon of danitrification equip~ent, there is c~rrently
no aooep~ble pr~eo8.
develo--rs - ..... ~v~rtheless, ~oaule each of
vitally ~rt~t in the T~ of Sou~old, the Plying ~d
will insist on s~iot ~rfo~nce.
T
.. htl pro~ly me~s t~t ~ second ~lf of the
. . ..... x~ ~i~n~g ~ard is prepared
to Instruct the Building Ins~otor to with~ld certificates of
~oup~cy ~ttl all ~se c~dttions are ~t, ~t It ~uld
seem t~t t~ ~ard of ~als might alas re, ire this as one
of the conditions for approval ~der their sp~ial
Very sincerely,
John Wtckham, Chairman
JW:tle $outhold Town Planning Board
June 22, 1973
Mr. Robert W. Gi111spie, Jr., Chairman
Southold Town Board of Appeals
Town Office
Main Road
Southold, New York 11971
Res Application for variance for George Ahlers end
Barry H. Hellman - Southold Com~ons Apartments
Dear Mr. Gillispie=
In general the Planning Board does not approve of
variances on new construction after the site plan has
been approved ez at least finalized. There might,
however, be some extenuating circumstances if all of
the units contained 850 square feet and the minimum
distances between all the buildings wes strictly
observed. The Planning Board might be inclined to look
more favorably on this if the primary purpose were
to make the living units more spacious.
Very sincerely,
JW=tle
John Wickham, Chairman
Southold Town Planning Board
January 18, 1973
N~nP&t It~alty Corp.
250 Cox L~ne
Cutohoque, #ow York
11935
Gentlemen
One of the conditions set down by the Southold
working when one third of the units are cooupl~l.
Also, the Suffolk County Department of Bnvirantal
Contlrol has issued a ruling that aS Of Jmluary 1, 1972,
nitrate removll in all sewer plants is required. As
of today, nitrate red,oval plsnts are not per£eoted.
We are bringlng this to your attention beoause
tho nitrate levels in the Town of 8outhold have
bec~ extr~ly oritioal end pose an lmmdiate
thzent ~o public health and safety. For this reason,
the planning Board san be expected to insist on
rigid ocoplianoe to this requirement.
Very sincerely,
John Wiokham, Chairman
SoutholdTownPlannlng Board
~:tle
cos Supervisor Albert N. Martooohia
Robert Tasker, B~q.
6fle[$fa Jon talio , 11776
7000
516-765-'i'800
January 19, 1972
Southold Town Planning Board
Southold
New York
Gentlemen:
Re: Southold Commons Apartment Project
Young's Avenue, Southold, N. Y.
At the request of Mr. George Ahlers, we wish to inform you
that we have indicated a willingness to consider financing
the above project predicated upon proper zoning and the
economic feasibility.
This letter is not to be misconstrued as a commitment, but
merely a letter of intent.
RWT/mc s
cc: lVLr.
George Ahlers
Very truly yours,
Executive Vic~/~e sident
11
, uP I~R --- /
iii
U
:%¸
JiI ,
Il
AtT,
Ii
..-
L
W-- L-- ~ V'~ 'T
=1
I !
I I
'T'I' ~ -E, tEoo~.lo t~goo~z
"Th'p, l::t ~'T
4
SIEGMLIND SPIEGEL, A. !. A.
ARC P, ITEC'i'
$1EGk~UND SPIEGEL, A. I.A.
ARCHITECT
2035 HEMPSTEAD TURNPII<E
EAST MEADOW, NEW
$1EGMUND .SPIEGEL, A. I.A.
ARC{41TECT
2035 HEIklPSTEAD TU~NPII<~
EAST MEADOW, NEW YORK
IV¢- N HOE 3-8049
-.-Ph_,,:~.:,._, A. I. A.
A~ ....T~CT
51EGIVIUND SPIEGEL. A. I. A.
ARC! itTECT
2035 HEf~PSTD-&D TURNPIKE
EAST MEADOW, NEW yORK
IVANHOE 3 8049
$1EGIVIUND SPIEG!:_'L, A. I. A
ARCH1TZC~
SIEGMUND SPIEGEL, A. I.
AR CI--IITECT
$1EGMUND SPIEGEL, A. I. A.
ARC!-IITECT
EAST MEADOW, NEW yORI4
A,rq CF".iT FZCT
$1EGIViUND
/
SPIEGEL, A. I. A.
ARCHITECT
!
./
7
!
!
!
'~$kHerc~tlo~ of this Document
except by o Licensed Profes-
sional Engineer, Is IIJegal".
Sedlon 7209, SubdivJ~}o. 2,
N. Y. StaJe Eduction ~w.
Gordon K. Ahlers,
Jaa',nesport,