HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-02/15/2006
James F. King, President
Jill M. Doherty, Vice-President
Peggy A. Dickerson
Dave Bergen
John Holzapfel
Town Hall
53095 Route 25
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971-0959
Telephone (631) 765-1892
Fax (631) 765-6641
MINUTES
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BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Wednesday, February 15, 2006
6:30 PM
Present were: James King, President
Jill Doherty, Vice-President
Peggy Dickerson, Trustee
Dave Bergen, Trustee
John Holzapfel, Trustee
E. Brownell Johnston, Esq.
Assistant Town Attorney for Trustees
Lauren Standish, Secretarial Assistant
Heather Cusack, Environmental Technician
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 at 8:00 a.m.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY moved to Approve,
TRUSTEE DICKERSON Seconded. ALL AYES.
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 at 6:30 p.m.
WORK SESSION: 5:30 p.m.
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve,
TRUSTEE DICKERSON Seconded. ALL AYES.
APPROVE MINUTES: Approve Minutes of December, 2004.
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve,
TRUSTEE DICKERSON Seconded. ALL AYES.
I. MONTHLY REPORT: For January, 2006, check for $10,213.04
was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General Fund.
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town
Clerk's Bulletin Board for review.
III. STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEWS:
Julie Ann Haerr -- SCTM#135-3-28.1
Nicholas Pologeorgis -- SCTM#135-1-26
Linda Borden -- SCTM#9-9-27.2
Don & Mary Jo Murphy -- SCTM#119-1-9.1
Jim & Susan Sweeney -- SCTM#27-3-42
Ann Marie Nelson c/o Pat Nelson -- SCTM#45-6-9
Robert Spitzenberg -- SCTM#78-5-4
Paradise Point Association, Inc -- SCTM#81-1-16.1 & 16.7
Thomas Cavanagh -- SCTM#111-14-13
John and Marion Brandvold -- SCTM#53-4-10
Carolyn & Joseph Ferrara -- SCTM#38-8-1
Catherine & Richard Reinken -- SCTM#98-1-11.1
Kevin and Doreen Barr -- SCTM#81-1-20
Kevin & Susan Ferrel -- SCTM#99-3-4.6
Richard R. Prieto, Jr. -- SCTM#87-3-45.1 & 46
Don Jayamaya -- SCTM#140-1-8
Benjamin & Jocelyn Suglia -- SCTM#137-3-7
IV. RESOLUTIONS-ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITS:
TRUSTEE KING: Hello, everyone before we get started, I'll
just introduce the Board, David Bergen, Peggy Dickerson,
Jill Doherty, myself, Lauren Standish is our office manager,
and John Holzapfel, another Trustee, Brownell Johnston, our
legal advisor, and Heather Cusack, our environmental
technician.
Right now we're starting work on revisions to our
shellfish code. We're just gathering information now and we
have been in touch with the Shellfish Advisory Council to
make some changes. Some sections of it haven't been changed
in 35, 40 years, they're really outdated. We're checking
into 97 a little bit to see if any modifications need to be
made to that. We're moving along.
IV. RESOLUTIONS-ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITS:
Board of Trustees
3
February 15, 2006
1. Peconic Land Trust requests an Administrative
Amendment to Permit #6180A to cut the phragmites and remove
them at the Harper Preserve prior to April 15. Located:
1920 Lake Drive, Southold. SCTM#59-1-20.1
TRUSTEE KING: I think we all looked at this and didn't have
a problem. I'll make a motion to approve.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
V. APPLICATIONS FOR AMENDMENTS/EXTENSIONSITRANSFERS:
1. Meryl Kramer, Architect on behalf of JOHN & MARION
BRANDVOLD requests an Amendment to Permit #5879 to extend
the deck an additional 4' beyond what was originally granted
for a total depth of 12', and a One-Year Extension to Permit
5879. Located: 1955 Bayshore Road, Greenport--
SCTM#53-4-10
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I looked at this, it was one I did
myself. I looked at it as absolutely no problem at all. I
recommend that we move ahead on it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
2. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on behalf of
LOIS ANDERSON requests an Amendment to Permit #5728 to
extend the bulkhead returns to 10' rather than 5'. Located:
2515 Calves Neck Road, Southold. SCTM#70-4-45
TRUSTEE KING: I looked at this, it's just a matter of
extending the return five more feet inlands, there's no impact,
I'll recommend approval.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES
3. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of KEVIN & DOREEN BARR
requests an Amendment to Permit 6198 for the removal of a
12' by 16' deck at the top of the embankment and construct a
10' by 22' rather than 10' by 10' deck landward of bulkhead;
and revegetate backfilled and other disturbed areas of
embankment with beach grass, bayberry, and Rugosa Rose.
Located: 200 Basin Road, Southold. SCTM#81-1-20
TRUSTEE KING: Even though these aren't public hearings,
we'll take comments on it. There was some questions from
the neighbors, Rob, on the location of the deck.
MR. HERMANN: Rob Hermann of En-Consultants on behalf of the
Barrs, nice to see you again, John.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Thank you.
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February 15, 2006
MR. HERMANN: The Barrs were informed by Mr. Sinning next
door, apparently not related to environmental permitting but
there are some C and Rs here that require structures to be a
minimum of 20 feet from the side property line. So
actually, the application tonight would need to be modified
to show a 10 by 19 deck that would be on the same side of
the stairs but cut back to meet a 20 foot side yard
setback. It wasn't a subject of our application but this
Board had previously approved a platform, 4' by 4' platform
and steps to the beach, and it's my understanding that
Mr. Sinning had also asked that that platform meet the 20
foot setback. This is on the seaward side of the
bulkhead. But that he had no objection to the steps heading
towards his property. So in other words, the steps would be
within 20 feet, but not the platform. So I had brought a
revised, just a draft sketch to show you what I'm talking
about. The deck is being cut back here by a number of feet
to meet a 20 foot setback, and this platform here would meet
a 20 foot setback from the side yard but the steps would
continue down where as before we had it just as reversed,
the platform was over here and the steps were heading away
from the Sinning parcel.
TRUSTEE KING: Why do you want this deck here rather than in
the middle of the property more?
MR. HERMANN: Because this is where they wanted the deck to
be located, down on this side, so Kevin met with Mr. Sinning
this weekend to discuss it, and he said as long as it was
configured like this, he didn't have a problem with it.
MR. HERMANN: Mr. Sinning, have you seen this?
MR. Sinning: I haven't seen it. I got a message from Kevin
saying it was going to be turned around, which I have no
problem with it.
MR. HERMANN: You can correct me if my relay of any of that
is incorrect.
MR. SINNING: My problem is that that bank is cut out too
severely. My bluff is going to erode down onto his.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That was a concern we had, Rob.
MR. SINNING: I think he was going to supply a rebanking or
something.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Because they cut the slope of the hill
back dramatically in order to make room for that platform,
and it's almost vertically exposed.
MR. HERMANN: There's going to be a retaining wall that's
going to be constructed along the back of that which has
always been in this plan. For the Board members that
weren't here --
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February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE KING: Wasn't there a second bulkhead in there
originally?
MR. HERMANN: No.
TRUSTEE KING: Okay.
MR. HERMANN: I think you're thinking of Kitt next
door. Because this was originally approved at least a
couple years ago originally as a landward resheathing. And
by the time the project was going to be implemented, it
changed to a remove and replace. So when I discussed this
briefly, Jim, which is one of the reasons why there really
wasn't a proper revegetation plan in place as part of this
permit -- because there was a nonjurisdiction letter issued
by DEC and originally this was just a resheath, and the
Board approved the remove and replace as a modification. It
was really just an oversight on everybody's part, including
the Board's, to require some sort of revegetation. So we're
actually proposing that now. I have copies of proposals,
but it's from Jim Coffee and Plantings by the Sea. Just so
the representation in good faith by the Barrs, it's part of
the permit but they're getting that underway immediately.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is there another wall then?
MR. HERMANN: There's just going to be the retaining wall
behind the deck area.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: What about the first 20 feet from your
property?
MR. HERMANN: The wall could be extended. The problem is
the discussion only came up this weekend, so when I spoke
with Kevin, we didn't really have --
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It probably goes from here straight down
to the bulkhead, then their property is here and theirs
comes out. So there's a big hole missing there. If you put
the wall over there, there's not going to be anything
here. So I think there's something to be figured out more
than just --
MR. HERMANN: They will probably have to extend the wall
over to at least tie in possibly to the Sinning return, but
I think that would be something --
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That's again a structure within 20 feet
of the side line and --
MR. HERMANN: I don't think he would ask for a wall, and
then say I don't want you to put it there because it's
within 20 feet.
MR. SINNING: You would have to have a retaining wall
against the back of the bluff, then you'd have to return
toward the water to keep my bluff from falling down.
MR. HERMANN: I don't know if that's true. We would have to
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February 15, 2006
have somebody, a professional engineer look at it.
MR. SINNING: I would much rather see that graded down and
planted.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: We have to look at it again.
MS. BARR: We spoke to Steve, he will come and he will
regrade. Right now the project has been at a standstill,
because we have been waiting for this hearing. But we have
spoken to Steve Pawlik and Pologrosso, and he will come and
regrade, and as you saw this Saturday the crane is still in
our backyard over by you, he will adjust the grade on your
cliff side.
MR. SINNING: When I spoke to Mr. Barr on Saturday, he said
he was going to end the deck and put stones.
(Discussion.)
MR. HERMANN: This Board has never requested somebody to
submit an application to put rock and gravel around a
bulkhead; in fact, as a condition of the nonturf buffer,
this Board has always said stone or grasses or sand or
whatever and the only thing that would cause us to need to
come in for a permit would be any physical structures. So
at least historically this Board hasn't had comments on
someone putting gravel, but here I think it's a relevant
point because if the Board wants to see this area graded
down to the bulkhead, then that would be something you would
have to consider requiring. The problem is, with all due
respect to Mr. Sinning, I can't stand here and just assume
that his layman's interpretation of the bluff is in fact
what would happen. It seems to me unlikely that this area
would cause the undermining of the bulkhead and embankment
simply because you don't have grading going from the top
going down to the bulkhead. That's not an unusual condition
all along Southold and Peconic Bay. That's why I'm saying,
I think it's something that should be addressed, I'm just
not willing to say standing here what the solution is.
MR. SINNING: I have no objection to the deck.
(Discussion)
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Do you think the regrading of that bluff
with a substantial proper planting would do the trick?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: So just restore the bluff as it was.
TRUSTEE KING: I think that's the direction we're going.
MR. HERMANN: I don't think we would have any problem of
that being a condition of this area in here. Because
technically this is part of the backfill area that we
indicated to be stabilized with planting with beach rose and
bayberry and beach grass, all of which are shown in these
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February 15, 2006
proposals.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: You're talking also about the slope
going --
MR. HERMANN: Yes, grade and replant it. The only area that
would not be like that would be as you described, basically
this cut-out, basically for the deck and the retaining wall,
but again that's not unusual for these bay front properties,
you see these all over the place.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: But you would grade to their side of the
property?
MR. HERMANN: Correct. This place in here would not be left
to drop, it would be graded and planted, the same as the
rest of this area. So we're not saying anything that isn't
already -- I don't know what Kevin said to Mr. Sinning about
the stones. I know Kevin at one point had said to me if he
wasn't approved for the deck, he would put stones there and
why would it make a difference to Mr. Sinning whether it was
a deck or stones because it's presumably the real life
impact would be their presence there, not what they were
sitting on. So maybe there was some miscommunication that I
don't know.
MR. SINNING: Because I said to him it was a structure.
MR. HERMANN: I understand legally that you're 100 percent
correct, and neither we nor the Barrs are changing that and
we appreciate you're bringing it to our attention, but I'm
just saying where the stones are coming from, I don't think
it's a current plan to put a deck and stones. I think Kevin
was saying, if we didn't get approval for the deck, couldn't
we just put stones there and socialize on the stones.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I think we're all going the same way, to
regrade, move the deck over, you said make it 10' by 19', 20
feet away from the property line and a replanting plan.
MR. HERMANN: If you would approve it tonight conditioned
upon receipt of this, I could give it to you, and I could
formalize this and give it to you.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I don't have a problem with that.
TRUSTEE KING: Okay, let's move along then. I'll make a
motion to approve this amendment, the deck dimensions are
going to be changed to 10' by 19' and the one corner of the
property will be regraded and planted, everything will be
planted up.
MR. HERMANN: And there will be a 20 foot setback.
TRUSTEE KING: Everything will be planted up.
MR. HERMANN: As noted on the plans and Jim, remember, that
the plantings on the seaward side of the bulkhead is going
to be swapped. So I don't think it would need any changing
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February 15, 2006
or description unless you want to include that the 4' by 4'
platform will meet the 20 foot setback also.
TRUSTEE KING: We can put it in there.
MR. HERMANN: I think the Sinnings will want to make sure
that we see that through.
TRUSTEE KING: So this will be approved.
MS. CUSACK: Put in your resolution survivability of the
plants. We have been seeing a lot of problems with that
maybe, come back with a one-year inspection.
TRUSTEE KING: And this approval is based on the new plans
being submitted and there will be a one-year inspection to
see if everything lived.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I meant to say the Conservation Advisory
Council recommended disapproval on that and recommended
immediate steps be taken to save the bank. I think probably
their concern was that same concern, so hopefully we have
addressed that.
4. Catherine Mesiano, Inc. on behalf of PETER
TAGIOS & ALETRA MONFREDO requests a One-Year Extension to
Permit #5858, as issued on February 25, 2004. Located: 545
Williamsburg Drive, Southold. SCTM#78-5-16
TRUSTEE KING: It's fairly substantially started. All the
piles are in place. So I'll recommend approval of the
extension.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
5. Olsen and Olsen on behalf of ROBERT S.
MARSTON & JOHN D. GARDINER requests a Transfer of Permit
#5996 from Thomas and Beverly Christianson to Robert S.
Marston & John D. Gardiner, as issued on September 22, 2004
and amended on February 16, 2005. Located: 7065 New
Suffolk Road, New Suffolk. SCTM#117 -5-30
TRUSTEE KING: This was a real small, real old little
house. We looked in it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The one across almost the property we
looked at.
TRUSTEE KING: It's just a transfer, so I recommend approval.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM
THE SUFFOLK TIMES. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF. FIVE (5)
MINUTES OR LESS IF POSSIBLE
TRUSTEE KING: We have some postponements. We'll go through
them now. One, Bahrenburg has been postponed; 21, David
Shamoon; Sim Moy, 22, has been postponed; and 28, Julie Tsai
has been postponed. I apologize if anybody sat here. I'll
make a motion to go off the regular meeting?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: We'll have our public hearings now. We have a
number of them, so anybody that has any comments, please
make them brief. I have a yellow paddle and a red paddle
because sometimes people have a tendency to ramble on, and I
toyed with the idea of holding up the yellow one when you
were getting close to the end, and then we'll hold up a red
one when you're all done, but we'll see how it goes without
them. Sometimes these public hearings turn into debates and
I want to try and curtail that if I can.
2. Patricia Moore on behalf of NICHOLAS
POLOGEORGIS requests a Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion
Permit to remove the existing porch on the easterly side of
the dwelling and construct a 15' by 30' garage. Located:
22655 Soundview Avenue, Southold. SCTM#135-1-26
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to comment on this
application?
MS. MOORE: I'm here to answer any questions that you might
have. We have a DEC permit for this work under Permit
Number 1473801883/00004. We have Zoning Board approval with
respect to the side yard setback, and you're my last permit
process. If you have any questions.
TRUSTEE KING: The Board's information, it's been found
inconsistent.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It's beyond the Coastal Erosion?
MS. MOORE: Yes, the Coastal Erosion there is at the
street.
TRUSTEE KING: It's in the Coastal Erosion area.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: You're only allowed a certain percentage
increase.
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February 15, 2006
MS. MOORE: To consider it a minor project, it can't be more
than 25 percent of existing structures, and we are well
within the 25 percent requirement. I had the surveyor do
that, it should be on the survey.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Do you have the area of the house
anywhere?
MS. MOORE: Yes, the main building is 1,722 square
feet. Porches, steps and patios are 1,012 square feet, take
the two together it's 2,735 square feet. 25 percent of that
should be under the 450. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: 25 percent of
that total or with the garage?
MS. MOORE: No, we don't have the garage yet.
MS. CUSACK: What did you get for the total square footage
of the house?
MS. MOORE: It should be right on the survey. It's right on
the notes by the surveyor on the right. I have the deck
stamped plan maybe I can help you.
TRUSTEE KING: That's it, that's the size of the footage.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: What are LWRP comments?
MS. MOORE: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: She's asking for the LWRP comments.
TRUSTEE KING: Protect and restore tidal and freshwater
wetlands. The proposed setback from the wetlands system is
77.5 feet. So it's within our jurisdiction, which makes it
inconsistent. Required applicant amend the application to
meet the above policy to the greatest extent possible. They
can't.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Correct.
MS. MOORE: It's also a disturbed area.
TRUSTEE KING: Then there's some recommendation. If the
action is approved, require erosion and sediment controls,
hay bails, silt fencing. We normally do that during
construction to protect the wetlands system to the north of
the property. Require native disease resistant and draught
tolerant landscaping to minimize irrigation and fertilizer
applications and require gutters and down spouts to dry
wells, which we normally do.
MS. MOORE: We have no objection to those being conditions
of the permit. The landscaping is pretty much there, you
saw it on the street. The landscaping on the north side I
think suffers from north winds, so there's not much
there.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: So you're saying there's not a need for
there to be plantings, you're saying what's existing is it?
Because I think the Board had a discussion.
MS. MOORE: I'm saying there is a lot of landscaping on the
Board of Trustees 11
February 15, 2006
street frontage, I don't think that area's going to be
disturbed at all. If you want additional landscaping
somewhere just let me know where, I'm sure the owner won't
complain, he prefers landscaping.
TRUSTEE KING: There's a good sized gravel buffer between
where the garage is being built and the dune area.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Correct. I remember the gravel buffer.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes. But I think out here we decided
some of it would be planted and some of it had failed. I
just had needed replanting and dry wells. Remember this is
sort of an erosion here, we saw some runoff here.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is that where she had the proposed
landscape buffer or are you talking further up here?
TRUSTEE KING: Down in this area?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It just seemed like some of the
replanting hadn't taken.
MS. MOORE: Can I bring up my survey?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: This beach grass all here had been
planted, but if it went along to the east, it seemed to have
failed, and there was evidence of erosion.
TRUSTEE KING: The down spouts aren't going into dry wells
or anything.
MS. MOORE: That doesn't make sense. That was the prior
owner. That's not a problem.
TRUSTEE KING: What we can do is you're going to have
gutters and leaders from the garage and at the same time
with the new dry wells, just hook up the house.
MS. MOORE: That's not a problem. If you write the permit
that way, I'll make sure. Thank
you.
TRUSTEE KING: Any other comments on this application? Pat,
can we get a new drawing indicating where the dry wells will
be for the roof runoff? I don't see anything on these plans
for dry wells.
MS. MOORE: Do you have a preference because since it
appears not to be here from the prior renovation of the
house, why don't you show me where you prefer it, and if
they're not in the ground we'll put them in a particular
area.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm just thinking somewhere in the area of the
new garage.
MS. MOORE: In the front not the back, you don't want them
on the water side; you want them on the street side.
TRUSTEE KING: Or on the side. There may be one in the
front by the southeast corner of the house, maybe one there
that they can hook the house drainage too.
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So you think there are already dry wells
there.
MS. MOORE: They might be under there. They just never got
connected. It seems kind of odd. And it is relative to the
last three or four years. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Jumps out.
MS. MOORE: Garity, I think it was the prior owner.
TRUSTEE KING: Sometimes you miss them.
MS. MOORE: It happens. In this area.
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE KING: Put one dry well here and maybe one here.
MS. MOORE: That's fine. There's probably going to be a
driveway connecting.
TRUSTEE KING: There may be some replanting down there where
it's needed.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We can approve it subject to a new
plan.
TRUSTEE KING: Why don't you draw them on here right now on
this, and then I'll stamp it. Do you want me to draw them
on?
MS. MOORE: Sure, it's your print.
TRUSTEE KING: Let me see what you have on yours and I'll
just copy them.
MS. MOORE: I have connecting dry wells and leaders to
drain, and then we just have to identify where the drains
are going to go.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll put house and garage.
MS. MOORE: That's fine.
TRUSTEE KING: A row of hay bails during construction
seaward, whatever they need for room to work.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Pat, can you put this in the
applications instead of us writing this here now? You know
that it has to be there, and it's just wasting time.
MS. MOORE: I always assume it's going to be conditions of
your permit.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Right, then we have to write it. We
have to discuss it. We have to tell you we're going to
change it. But if you put it in your application, then all
we do is see it.
TRUSTEE KING: They're in the plans already.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So just include it in the plans, and it
would save a lot of people a lot of time.
MS. MOORE: I have a surveyor that wasn't from the area,
usually they provide it.
TRUSTEE KING: If there's no other motions, I'll make a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with the changes that we have made as far as dry wells, line
of hay bails during construction and replanting of the beach
grass in the areas where it's gone.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees
14
February 15, 2006
3. Catherine Mesiano, Inc. on behalf of KEVIN &
SUSAN FERREL requests a Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion
permit to restore the damaged bluff by placing 1,600 cubic
yards of bank run sand on the face of the
bluff. Stabilization of the restored areas will be
implemented by terracing and planting with the approved
beach grasses. Located: 130 Lloyd's Lane, Mattituck.
SCTM#99-3-4.6
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Is there somebody here to speak on behalf
of this application?
MS. MESIANO: Yes, Catherine Mesiano on behalf of the
applicant. I believe the application speaks for itself. I
should add that the reason we're here is that we did suffer
a land slide, a significant amount of material did fall. We
lost a significant amount of the bluff and this is in an
effort to restore the bluff, try to retain its
integrity. We have done a lot of investigation. Again,
we've consulted with a number of professionals and this plan
that we're presenting to you seems to be the most reasonable
plan to try to restore that bluff and give it the integrity
it needs in order to maintain the stability. I know that
there's some concerns. There was a comment I think by the
soil and water conservation board; is that correct? And I
suppose we should just tackle it head on and say that we are
opposed to cutting back the bluff. We feel that that would
not be the solution to the property. It's counter-intuitive
to anything I have ever heard before this Board for the past
15 years. Cutting off the bluff does not seem to be the
solution. Our terracing plan would entail --
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Do we have a plan from soil and water? We
had requested that you speak to soil and water.
MS. MESIANO: I was not aware of that.
TRUSTEE KING: I understand it's a question of ownership too
on that bluff. Part of that bluff is owned by the property
owner's association, I believe.
MS. MESIANO: Yes, and the property owner. They're polling
the property owners and we expect the authorization to be
forthcoming. It was a matter of getting the mechanics of
getting the paperwork to the individuals and getting the
signatures back. But Mr. Ferrel has been in communication
with members of the board and there doesn't appear to be an
issue with that.
I think I should bring to your attention a letter
that was issued by soil and water, conservation from June
24, 2004. This was generated by our application before the
Zoning Board when a neighbor expressed some concern. This
Board of Trustees
15
February 15, 2006
is -- I have a copy for you, but I would like to present
this to the Board.
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anybody from the association here?
We really can't move on it. MR. JOHNSTON: Give us whatever
it is you want us to submit and then we can move on it.
TRUSTEE KING: We're going to need that authorization before
us before we can move on this, not after the fact.
MS. MESIANO: You couldn't condition your approval on that?
TRUSTEE KING: No.
MR. FERREL: We're trying to deal with the planting season
and get things moving. So based on the assumption that we
would get the association vote and approval, which by the
way, other people have done similar type work, we'd like to
ask you to give it conditional.
TRUSTEE KING: This isn't new.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We would like soil and water to come out
now. This is two years old. We would like you to contact
Allen Connel from soil and water.
MR. FERREL: Yes, I have him here and I also have the
Southold Advisory Council here.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The CAC does approve this and it was found
consistent.
TRUSTEE KING: I think we should just table this really until
we get stuff in front of us from the property owner's
association.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All right, that's what we do; do you make
a motion?
TRUSTEE KING: Yes, I make a motion to table this.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
MS. MESIANO: Excuse me, could I request a roll call vote?
TRUSTEE KING: To table? No.
MR. JOHNSTON: You can request it, but you don't have to
respect it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: What our concern is we want in writing to
have the application complete, the permission from the
association. So, we really cannot go further until we have
that. And then once we have that in the file to complete
the application, we can go forward.
MS. MESIANO: Again, in my consistency schpiel, there's been
a lot of decisions made by this Board not consistent with
that position. And in light of the fact that the Ferrels
are dealing with a deteriorating bluff situation, planting
season, et cetera, we are really distressed at this because
we are ready to move on it and we're at risk.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We can't really move on this until we have
Board of Trustees
16
February 15, 2006
a complete, and this Board, starting January 1 st, has done
that. The previous Board I can't speak for.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Just also to assist with, the next time
there was a letter from a neighbor who was concerned about
how the fill was going to be brought in. They were
concerned about the -- the neighbor to the east was
concerned about vibration causing more damage to their
property. So it's something to address next time also.
MS. MESIANO: Is there a way for a better means of
communication between the Board and the applicants? Because
if I don't go to the office and request, how else do I
address these issues?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We met the owner,
Mrs. Ferrel, and we explained to her in the field, and this
letter from Allen Connel was done on the 10th and we're just
receiving it now, so we need time to do that.
MRS. FERREL: You came days after you told me you were going
to come.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And we're just receiving the letter this
minute, his response this minute, we didn't receive it
before tonight.
TRUSTEE KING: Moving along.
4. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of CAROLYN &
JOSEPH FERRARA requests a Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion
Permit to construct a fixed timber dock consistent of a 4
by 12 inclined ramp; 4' by 84' fixed timber catwalk; 3' by
14' hinged ramp; and 6' by 20' float secured by two 8"
diameter pilings. Dock is to be constructed of untreated
lumber and ramp and float shall be removed and reinstalled
seasonal. Located: 2170 Maple Lane, East Marion.
SCTM#38-8-1
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here who would like to
speak on behalf of this application?
MR. HERMANN: Rob Hermann on behalf of the applicants,
Joseph and Carolyn Ferrara. The Ferrara are also here.
I just want to hand up an aerial photo to the Board,
I'm sure you have seen it, but to show you the location of
this dock. The application is should be self-explanatory,
we're here to answer any questions that the Board may
have.
Quickly, we are proposing this dock within the
virtual shadow of another series of much larger docks that
are associated immediately adjacent to this property and
resort residential land. The dock is proposed to extend a
total of 114 feet seaward of high tide, which is
Board of Trustees
17
February 15, 2006
approximately 66 feet or 37 percent less than the adjacent
condominium dock, which itself is shorter than two of the
three docks to its east. This dock is not being proposed
along a virgin or pristine shoreline, but rather in the
midst of this existing series of much larger docks including
that owned by the Crescent Beach Condominium, who is an
applicant to this Board and was granted approval to extend
in 1996 what was then a 150 foot fixed dock to a 218 foot
fixed dock with wave breaks; all 218 feet of which is
permanent structure. Only 84 feet of the proposed dock for
the F erraras is fixed, the rest of it, as Peggy read, is
ramp and float to be removed seasonally. An unvegetated
sandy shoreline adjacent not only to these other docks but
again for zones resorVresidentialland, which you can see
in that aerial photo is characterized by intense development
of and residential development and with the much larger
docks.
So there's nothing about this application that would
change the character of this shoreline. It's again, located
next to these larger docks. The dock itself would not
create any new navigational constraints that are not already
present. Certainly no character of community conditions
that aren't already present. And this property is also
essentially in an isolated geologic and zoning cell, if you
look at the aerial with the inlet to the west, and also the
resorVresidentialland on either side of it. So we would
hope that the Board would consider all that and consider the
fact that this dock has been designed minimally with respect
to all of those factors, navigation, ecology and community
character included.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is this is in Coastal Erosion, Rob?
MR. HERMANN: Yes, a Coastal Erosion Permit is required
because it is a dock structure that has greater than 200
square feet of top surface area.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: And the Coastal Erosion Permit?
MR. HERMANN: There's an application for Coastal Erosion
Permit.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Here tonight?
MR. HERMANN: Yes.
MS. CUSACK: There wasn't when the Board looked at it but he
MR. HERMANN: Lauren had contacted our office and advised us
that that needed to be filed. It was faxed to your
office. I brought the hard copy tonight.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So are we considering Coastal Erosion
Board of Trustees
18
February 15, 2006
tonight on this as well?
MR. HERMANN: You would have to by law because again, unless
the dock is removed seasonally in its entirety or its less
than 200 square feet top surface area, in either of those
cases, it's an unregulated activity under Coastal Erosion,
but if it doesn't meet either of those characteristics it's a
regulated activity for which a permit is required.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I was looking at the original permit, and
I didn't see it was applied for.
MR. HERMANN: During the original submission that was our
oversight.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is there anyone else here who would like
to speak? Yes.
MR. ANGELE: We are neighbors with Mr. Ferrara's to the
east. I represent 21 unit owners and we have no objections
to Mr. Ferrara building the dock. And Mr. Ferrara also
proposed that he would move it 15 feet west to give us more
of a chance to clam in the area and do our own boating in
the area.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Sir, could you state your name, please?
MR. ANGELE: I'm Michael Angele, we are at the Crescent
Beach condos, 21 units and we have no objections at all.
MR. HERMANN: That was discussed for the Board's
information, the Ferraras were trying to keep the dock,
again for community character issues, as close to that other
series of docks as possible. The land, as you see in the
aerial as you go to the west, starts to curve around, and we
could move the dock up to 15 feet from this west so that it
would still be in a parallel series with those docks. So
the Ferraras have no objection to that. Also depending on
the Board's feeling, we may want to also add shore parallel
steps to either side to the catwalk as part of the proposal
to insure pedestrian access during high tide.
TRUSTEE KING: Some kind of path it looks like.
MR. HERMANN: We can assume in the original proposal that
pedestrian access would be landward of the catwalk, but
given that that would force access to go through an area of
beach grass, we would propose it as part of the catwalk
itself on the sandy beach.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: CAC recommended approval of the
application with the condition no treated lumber is used and
there is no change to the natural buffer.
MR. HERMANN: It is proposed as a nontreated lumber dock,
that is in the application and the plans.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We also just received, which I am a bit
cautious about, a very lengthy LWRP inconsistency review,
Board of Trustees
19
February 15, 2006
and since I just received it tonight, it's four pages long,
I myself would prefer to have more time to review that.
MR. HERMANN: I respect that, Peggy, but we just listened to
an application before where the Board is objecting to the
concept of the applicants dumping something on you at the
last second. And we prepared a very lengthy LWRP
application that was submitted in a timely fashion. The
fact that Mark Terry can't review these things in a timely
fashion should not in turn be taken out on the
applicants. So I'm happy to discuss the LWRP for as many
hours tonight as you wish, but unless the Board has another
reason to table the application, I hope you wouldn't table
the application because of Mark's inability to produce that
report. This is a recurring theme with our application and
many others.
MR. HERMANN: In our LWRP application we discuss Policy 3,
Policy 5, Policy 6, and Policy 9 and Policy 10. And I'm
happy to discuss those here as parts of the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Any other Board comments?
TRUSTEE KING: I'm always hesitant to issue a permit for a
dock on the bay and really delve into these.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think Rob made a good argument along
the way of the problems that we normally have. It is not a
pristine undisturbed area. There are bigger docks already
there. It's relatively close to existing docks. It's not
going to change the character of the neighborhood. All of
those things I think should be noted, and they're important
of why we're going to deal with this application as we
should deal with it.
MR. HERMANN: John, I appreciate your observation of that
because it's no secret that this Board now, despite the fact
that there is no written prohibition or caveat against docks
on the bay in the newly written wetlands law, by practice,
it's no secret that this Board has objected to docks on the
bay, quote/unquote for that reason, which is why we put a
lot of time in this when Joe and Carl came to me and I said
this would have to be an application that would distinguish
or that the Board would be able to distinguish this
application from others where you see docks come in along
the Peconic Bay shoreline with all residential properties,
and docks are looking in all directions. Here you have, I
think, an unusual, if not unique situation of the Ferraras'
residential parcel being in between essentially two
condominium associations, adjacent to resort/residential
lands that are intensely developed, that are designed by
code to be intensely developed, and have literally humongous
Board of Trustees
20
February 15, 2006
docks adjacent to it, including one which this Board of
Trustees -- not these members but this entity -- granted
approval to extend to almost 220 feet in 1996. Now that's
not back in the '70s that's only nine, less than 10 years
ago.
TRUSTEE KING: We always look back at that as being a
mistake.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We're learning.
MR. HERMANN: And that's the tradition of responsive boards
who are looking to sort of undo mistakes of the past, but
we're not asking you to set a precedent here. We're asking
you to make a decision. I think it would be difficult for
the Board to set forth a tenable argument that this dock
would somehow disrupt this shoreline given its location
relative immediately to what's next door.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Rob, do we have any idea of what
subaquatic vegetation, any idea of what's in that area?
MR. HERMANN: I don't know of any significant underwater
vegetation at this site. It's a sandy area. There were no
large eel grass beds, which is the one standard underwater
population of the DEC -- that the DEC, for example, keeps an
eye out for. You see a lot of those on Shinnecock Bay on
the south shore. Didn't note anything like that here.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: One of my concerns always is the Peconic
Estuary Comprehensive plan that says that their goal is to
have no net increase in structure on the Peconic Estuary,
and that's always in the forefront of my mind when making
decisions.
MR. HERMANN: Again, that's why we were very wary of the
application to start to bring in front of this Board,
particularly in light of the recent decision, but again, I
think that this site and this application really, the Board
can very
easily -- whether it be philosophically, environmentally or
legally distinguish this application from others that you
may have objected to in the past.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: What is the property to the west, it says
resort for beach area.
MR. HERMANN: The property to the west I believe is a
Cleave's Point owned property.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is the purpose of this for access or for
boat?
MR. HERMANN: It's for noncommercial boat dockage. And
again, we tried to incorporate both untreated lumber and a
seasonal to the dock, which also distinguished it from the
Board of Trustees
21
February 15, 2006
docks next to it.
TRUSTEE KING: The gentleman mentioned he goes clamming in
this area, is there any shellfish activity there, Rob, do
you know?
MR. ANGELE: Not commercial just clams for our dinner.
MR. HERMANN: Is there a shellfishing season there, Jim,
that you would suggest the removal of the ramp and float if
the application were considered for approval to coincide
with?
TRUSTEE KING: I was just curious if there was any scalloping
in that area.
MR. ANGELE: There is no eel grass left in that area that
grows because about eight or nine years ago, came in with a
machine with an outboard motor, somebody came in and wrecked
everything and was eventually caught by the DEC, but that's
what they did, they cleaned up the whole area of the eel
grass. When I said something to him he more or less told me
where to go.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It's significantly smaller than what's
there.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't have a huge problem with it. John, I
think you're 100 percent right on your comments as far as
the area it's in. My only concern might be the vegetation
issue.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think for the public record Rob did
document that there are past cases, and I just want to make
it clear that it's there and there are reasons.
TRUSTEE KING: We'll have someone go out and check for
vegetation.
MR. JOHNSTON: Jim, there seems to be a number of people who
are familiar, do any of them disagree with what's been said?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone else who would like to
speak?
MR. JOHNSTON: Neighbors out there?
MR. GRUMPY: Brian Grumpy. I've been living in this area
since back in 1964, and I'm very familiar with the area, and
you brought up the subject of vegetation. I can give my
word I've been in the water. There is hardly any vegetation
in that area, especially the farther you go west the less
there is -- well, east there is like more seaweed and in
that particular area there's none.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'm familiar with the area.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm familiar with the area as well and I
agree with that.
MR. HAGER: My name is John Hager and I'm with Mike at
Cleaves Point condominiums. And, yes, I do a little bit of
Board of Trustees
22
February 15, 2006
clamming there -- also with a permit -- and I would agree
with Mike and with Brian Grumpy, that there's very little
grass there, and we would love the Ferraras to put a dock
in.
TRUSTEE KING: This is an unusual situation.
MR. HERMANN: We intended to create that.
MS. CUSACK: Like you said, like Jim said, having someone
like Chris Pickerel check, just to be consistent with the
last application.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Mr. Costello?
MR. COSTEllO: My name is John Costello, I've been a marine
contractor in that area for a few years, and it also used to
be long Island Oyster Farm bed off of that. That was
dredged daily. So much of the grass and the eel grass that
were ever in that area was taken up by the dredgings of long
Island Oyster Farms. The dock being that close to shore, in
the shore with the wave energy is the most -- I can assure
you there is none at the Cleaves Point condominiums, and
there is none along to the immediate shoreline out to the
four foot area anyway. Offshore, hopefully in the future it
may come back, but there is none now, thank you.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I would be more comfortable with Chris
Pickerel being an expert in that area to have him check the
vegetation; is there a problem; do you have a problem with
th at?
MR. HERMANN: No. Is there any reason Chris couldn't have
done that during the past month?
MR. JOHNSTON: Is there anything that you have heard that
would lead you to believe that there's some doubt of the
truth of what has been said? If there is anything in the
five of your minds that there's doubt, you're not
comfortable, you don't think it's true, you want more
evidence.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I think to be consistent with what we
have asked other applicants to do, we should be consistent
in requesting it this time. So I would like to make a
motion to table so we can have the area inspected by Chris
Pickerel. And if not, then someone else can make a
motion.
MR. JOHNSTON: Is there a second?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: If there's not a second then the motion
is lost.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Make a motion to close the hearing.
MS. CUSACK: You have to address Mark Terry's review, just
letting you know, in your resolution.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: If someone else makes a motion.
Board of Trustees
23
February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE KING: The motion was to table it and have Chris
Pickerel go out and it didn't get a second. So then it's a
lost motion.
TRUSTEE KING: From what I have heard from everybody that's
here --
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'm ready to move on but Heather brought
a point up, I'm not familiar with the new code.
TRUSTEE KING: If it's found inconsistent--
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: We found something inconsistent, and I
gather legally that we have to in the amendment cover
ourselves by saying --
MR. HERMANN: Is there anything in that report that you need
to address, Jim?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: That was one of the concerns that
there's not time for the entire Board to review that.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Rob, in reality is there a time line,
would it kill you to wait a month? In reality, not on
principal but on reality?
MR. HERMANN: If there is a proper reason that the Board
needs to table this, if there's something that you need from
us that we can't provide. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: One would be
to review the LWRP and two would be to get Chris Pickerel to
look at the vegetation.
TRUSTEE KING: Peggy, I'll second your motion.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Aye.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Opposed.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Opposed.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Oppose.
TRUSTEE KING: So we don't have the votes. We can override
Mark Terry's findings, but we're supposed to review this and
try to modify it to find it consistent.
MR. HERMANN: I understand that, Jim. But this Board has
come in and I got a memo faxed to my office talking about
how the consultants needs to be prompt, we need to be
prepared and I've worked with you for years, and I respect
the new members of this Board, and this is a problem that
does not stem from you all, but if we have put in a lot of
time, the Ferrara have made a point to come in here, all
these folks have made a point to come here and the fact that
we're being pushed aside, irrespective, they're not going to
build the dock before next month. So no, it's not going to
kill us, but if you expect a certain standard from us then
we can't be in a position where we have a chronic recurrence
of Mark Terry either, (a) not preparing the report or (b)
Board of Trustees
24
February 15, 2006
preparing it for you at the last second so you don't have
time to review it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: One of the problems with that is that
the LWRP committee is in the process of reviewing the entire
procedure, and is in the process of getting an assistant and
is in the process of discussing with the state, and we are
in the process of looking at the procedure because it isn't
fair to you; it is something that we would rather not
happen, but it is happening and to try to review a five-page
document at this point is difficult for us to move on.
MR. HERMANN: Understood. And if I handed you a 20 page
document tonight you would have told me the same thing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: So what I'm saying is the problems are
being looked at.
MR. HERMANN: I hear you and I appreciate it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: That's where we are.
MS. CUSACK: He just has to get it in within 30 days, if you
want it in sooner, then you have to let him know.
MR. HERMANN: It's not a personal issue, Mark has been
assigned to a task that a normal human being can't
complete. It's not a personal issue. It's a procedural
issue.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It's hopefully something that we will
improve quickly.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Rob, I agree with you.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Point's made, the problem's still
here.
MR. HERMANN: So the application has been tabled entirely?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It's been seconded, it hasn't been
passed.
MR. HERMANN: In cases before, Jim, you've issued
conditional approvals with sorting out the LWRP. If the
Board is concerned with the legality of this, take your tirne
I guess is my final answer.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Should I make a motion again?
TRUSTEE KING: Yes.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I make a motion to table this to review
the LWRP and also to let Chris Pickerel check out the
vegetation. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The Pickerel part of it was already
denied.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I don't have a problem with tabling it to
review the LWRP. I personally am familiar with the area,
and I know there has not been vegetation.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'm not denying anyone's truth, I'm
Board of Trustees
25
February 15, 2006
saying consistently we have asked other people to have that
vegetation checked by Cornell.
Board of Trustees
26
February 15, 2006
MR. HERMANN: You have never asked me to have -
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I didn't say you specifically.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'm going to make a motion that we table
the application based on a review of that document that we
received tonight. I apologize to you, I appreciate the
letter that you sent back to us, I read that carefully and
that's why I said what I said earlier. And I apologized but
we have to deal with it. So I'm making the motion that we
table it on the basis of that document and we look at it.
TRUSTEE KING: Second it.
MR. HERMANN: The only thing that I ask if there's something
that we can address, something that you left feeling empty
about between now and March 22, just let us know, otherwise
we'll assume that it's resolved and when we come back here
in March it will be basically a procedural issue.
TRUSTEE KING: There's nothing about this dock that makes me
uncomfortable size wise.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: There's a motion on the floor; it's been
seconded. We haven't had a vote yet.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?
MR. JOHNSTON: What was the motion?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I made a motion that we table this for
review and comments from the LWRP.
TRUSTEE KING: I seconded it.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Now we have to have a vote.
All in favor?
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Aye.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Aye.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Aye.
TRUSTEE KING: Opposed?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Opposed.
TRUSTEE HOLZPAFEL: Rob, would you believe, and I say this
for everybody's sake, we met four or five days ago,
deliberately to go over the agenda and deliberately to
contact applicants to see if there were any problems and let
them know before this so that we would not have these kinds
of problems. So we just got this. We were trying to avoid
this. And I'll just tell you about it.
MR. HERMANN: I appreciate it, John, and as I've said in
months before, I don't think this has anything to do with
this Board, past or present. It's a procedural problem in
the Planning Board that was created by the Town Board and
after putting a lot of time into revising your law, you all,
and we all are suffering for it, and I just hope that it's
resolved reasonably quickly.
Board of Trustees
27
February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE KING: It's been a nightmare from the get go.
MR. HERMANN: I know it has, which is why it's not a comment
on you.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We'll review that report and get to you as
soon as possible. We're not going to prolong that.
MR. HERMANN: Okay. We'd rather you be sure of your
decision, don't get me wrong.
MR. FERRARA: Thank you all, I appreciate it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Goodnight.
WETLAND PERMITS
1. Docko, Inc. on behalf of PETER BACCILE requests a
Wetland Permit to construct 95 linear feet of 4' wide fixed
wood pile and timber pier and install an 8' by 20' float
with associated 3.5' by 20' wood ramp and the tie off
pilings. Located: Equestrian Avenue, Fishers Island.
SCTM#9-3-11
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Jim and I went out and inspected this. Is
there anybody here to speak on behalf of this application?
MR. NIELSON: Yes, my name is Keith Nielson and I'm the
president of Docko Incorporated and I prepared the
application documents before you on behalf of Peter Baccile
and his family.
I would like to first of all note that the
application documents that I submitted to the Town include
copies of application documents to the Corps of Engineers,
the Department of State and the DEC and contained in all
those documents are the necessary application forms and the
narratives, which address all of the factors in your local
law number 6 for wetlands and shoreline lands and the LWRP
factors for consideration. I can summarize those, if you
would like or if you are satisfied with the adequacy of the
application documents, I'll go into a very brief description
of what is proposed so that everybody feels comfortable with
it.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Describe.
MR. NIELSON: The pier -- you need to look at your
application documents because the drawing I have prepared
here is an alternative that was based on some observations
at the site visit and conversations from yesterday, and this
is not being offered to substitute for the application
documents. However, Mr. Peter Frist, who lives on the
adjacent property to the southeast, had expressed some
concerns that he would like to have more separation between
Board of Trustees
28
February 15, 2006
the property -- or I should say between his dock and
Mr. Baccile's proposal. So what we proposed to Mr. Baccile,
which was acceptable, was to put a dog leg in the dock so
that instead of coming out and being 35 feet roughly dock to
dock with Mr. Frist, this one will be about 45 feet and
Mr. Frist has said anything that we can do to improve the
separation between the two floats would be appreciated, so
we gave an extra 1 0 feet.
With regard to the rest of the factors addressed in
your regulations and so on, I would like to state
categorically we have complied with everything. This is
consistent with the intention of your regulations and the
specific requirements of your regulations, including the
placement of collection collars around driven piles where
sawn timbers are going to be utilized to collect the saw
dust from the pressure-treated piles. We will also comply
with all the requirements for materials in the decking and
so on, as far as the non-use of CCA and the certification of
any hardwoods that are used in the project. We have tried
to make this dock consistent with the appearance of the
other five dock facilities in this small end of hay bales of
Hay Harbor, and I believe that we have satisfied
everything. The Corps of Engineers has reviewed this, and
is ready to issue. The DEC has reviewed it, and they are
ready to issue as well.
So, those are my comments, thank you.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Do you have that other drawing that you showed us
during the work session?
MR. NIELSON: Yes. These are the exhibits that I prepared
originally shortening the original proposal, and this is the
one with the dog legs showing separation, and we can take
that another five degrees to give you 45 foot space. I
would point out that in your Local Ordinance 6, you
stipulate 15 foot setback from extended property lines, that
would give a 30 foot offset. We have a 45 offset here. So
we have complied with the principal terms of the regulation,
as well as Mr. Kripp's concern.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: There's no CAC comments I assume because
they didn't get out there. It is consistent with LWRP. And
the file seems to be complete. I think as we discussed in
the work session, we would like to see that angled a little
bit more.
MR. NIELSON: What I can do, if you need to hold off on
approval until revised plans are provided, I can do that or
you can approve it with the 45 foot offset, and I will
submit revised plans that show a 45 foot offset.
Board of Trustees
29
February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We can do that. These are complete, you
have all the soundings here, and you show the one-third
across the way. It's a very complete application. Is there
anybody here to have any comment on this application? Board
comments?
TRUSTEE KING: I think we straightened it out at work
session.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All right, I'll make a motion to close the
public hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? All AYES
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'll make a motion to approve -- what
would be the length of this once we move it?
MR. NIELSON: It remains at 95.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: -- approve the Wetland Permit for Peter
Baccile to construct a 95' by 4' wood pile and timber pier
and install an 8' by 20' float with associated 3.5' and 20'
wood ramp and tie-off pilings, with a 45 foot offset from
the other docks to the neighboring dock subject to a new
plan submitted showing that. And just one note, our code
calls for six foot wide floats on Fishers Island. It's
consistent with the other floats in the area that are eight
foot wide, so I don't see that being a problem in that
area.
TRUSTEE KING: That's been the standard float on Fishers
Island since I've been on the Board.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll second the motion.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? All AYES.
2. Docko, Inc. On behalf of SUSANNA DOYLE requests
a Wetland Permit to construct 95 linear feet of 4' wide
fixed wood pile and timber pier elevated to clear tidal
wetlands. Install a new 3' by 20' hinged ramp and an 8' by
20' float. The total length of the pier is approximately
125. located: Peninsula Road, Fishers Island.
SCTM#10-11-5.8
TRUSTEE KING: I guess you're up again.
MR. NIELSON: I'm up again. Keith Nielson, Docko, Inc., on
behalf of the Doyles.
Again, we have followed your regulations and the
lWRP closely to make sure that we can provide a dock
compliant with all of your code standards as well as DEC,
Corps of Engineers and Department of State policies. And in
this case, the reason for the longer dock length is because
we have an incredible amount of grasses, wetland grasses
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
that we're trying to span, and we're clearing them with
bottom sediment clearance -- I should say the distance
between the dock structure and the bottom sediments is four
feet in compliance with DEC standards. You will notice that
the dock starts off a little bit high then tapers down,
slopes down to a level off about five, five and a half feet
to make sure it's satisfied the flood proofing and
inundation characteristics of the cove. Again, it has an 8'
by 20' float for stability reasons consistent with other
floats and structures on Fishers Island. We have worked out
in the application document, you'll notice that I have shown
the Miller's dock on Cove Cottage, immediately
adjacent. That structure was permitted and it is not yet
built. We worked out the separation from their dock at 70
feet, and it's shown on the application drawings.
Again, this property has a little bit of an unusual
property line. If we were to show 15 foot offset of the
property line, the two points would cross somewhere before
the end of the pier. The DEC policy to reach four feet of
water to avoid future dredging requirements has been
incorporated into this dock and so it sticks out beyond the
intersection of those two property offsets. We did get to
coordinate this with Miss Pankowitz, the neighbor to the
east, as well as the Millers, and I believe that we have
maintained peace and harmony in the neighborhood and at the
same time provided for reasonable boating access and
complied with all the other provisions which I have
stipulated on other occasions to comply with your
regulations.
If there are questions, I'd be happy to answer
them.
TRUSTEE KING: Any other comments? CAC did not make an
inspection therefore no recommendation. Jill and I looked
at this. We didn't have a problem with it. It's consistent
with the LWRP.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It's a structure that seems to have been
there quite a while.
TRUSTEE KING: If there's no other comments, I'll make a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
as stated
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees
31
February 15, 2006
3. Docko, Inc. on behalf of LINDA BORDEN requests a
Wetland Permit to construct a 28' by 4' fixed wood pile and
timber pier, an 8' by 20' floating dock with a hinged ramp
and associated restraint pilings. Located: Equestrian
Avenue, Fishers Island. SCTM#9-9-27.2
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Again, Jim and I went out and inspected
this. It is consistent with LWRP, and CAC did not have any
comments because they didn't inspect. Anybody here on
behalf of this application?
MR. NIELSON: Yes, Keith Nielson from Docko again,
representing the Borden family. This dock is in a very
tight cove at the westerly edge of Hay Harbor, near Tennis
Racket Island and the cove, and the shape of the property,
again, dictates a slightly different approach on the dock's
alignment, and we cannot meet the 15 foot offset on this
property. As you can see from the drawing, the 15 foot
offset occurs landward of the high tide line. So we have
made a reasonable approximation of what would be fair to all
of the residents in this cove if they all decided to build
docks and we have also provided more than adequate clearance
from the only other existing dock structure in the code.
All tidal wetlands were marked by Rich Starsky, a certified
soil scientist utilizing Army Corps of Engineer
standards. And we located the critical topography
elements. This dock-like facility will require a stairway
down to a slightly sloped and then level pier, hinged ramp
to a float, and we have reviewed all of the stipulations and
material requirements in your local Ordinance 6 and have
made the necessary notations and certifications in the
application. And this dock again presents no problem for
degradation of natural resources, nor does it to restrict in
any way public use or public use of public trust lands or
waters. And so, I would be happy to answer any questions
that might exist or arise.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Are there any other comments? Again,
complete application, it's consistent. I don't have a
problem with it. I make a motion to close the public
hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I make a motion to approve the application
of Linda Borden as applied for. On Equestrian Avenue in
Fishers Island.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees
32
February 15, 2006
4. THOMAS CAVANAGH requests a Wetland Permit to
construct to alterations and additions to the existing
single-family dwelling, and extensions to the existing porch
and deck. Located: 600 Little Peconic Bay Road,
Cutchogue. SCTM#111-14-13.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here to speak on behalf
of this application?
MR. CAVANAGH: I'm Tom Cavanagh here to answer any
questions.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Okay.
MR. CAVANAGH: The existing house is over 100 feet from the
water, it's 116, but there is a new bulkhead that was put in
by a separate application to the Trustees, and it was also a
low sill bulkhead installed. The property has water on
three sides, but if you measure to the closest distance of
the low sill bulkhead on a diagonal, the existing dimension
is 74'6" and the deck that we're adding does not extend very
far in that area. It would reduce that dimension to 66'6".
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: The only thing that I noticed when I did
this inspection, I did notice some erosion in your driveway
and along the side of your house, which I'm just concerned
with the elevation. Normally I think with the additions and
alterations that you're doing, we wouldn't normally ask for
a staked hay bale line, but I'm inclined to request it. You
have a nice tree line there, I would feel better with a hay
bale line there because you have such elevation and I did
notice some evidence.
MR. CAVANAGH: There has been new dry wells installed and
French drains along that area, and we have not put the
topping on the soil, so there is movement. We're saving the
topping until we do the renovation.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: You just have such an incline between
there and the bulkhead, I would feel more comfortable with
it, just in front of the tree line.
MR. CAVANAGH: That's fine.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Anyone else here who would like to speak
for or against this?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Dave saw this I think.
MR. COHEN: My name is Dan Cohen, and I share a common
property line with Tom Cavanagh. The one that lies on our
property is to the west, I have no problem with the location
of the changes he's proposing for his house, but there's an
error on the drawing that Tom -- I guess was proved to Tom
today when it was surveyed. I had it staked, the line, our
common line staked out a couple months ago, and the
Luendowski survey, which this plan says that it's based on,
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
they did December 23,1997 -- which error has been repeated
on this plan in that the existing distance from the
northwest corner of his structure to the property line is
shown here at 23 feet, in fact, it's 20.7 feet. I don't
know that this has any particular meaning except that these
surveys tend to be memorialized, and I don't know what's
going to happen years from now whether it will in fact
adversely affect my rights, and it seems to me it should be
corrected since we now know that it's an error.
I had another question also about this and I don't
know whether it is your problem or the Building Department's
problem. This drawing shows an existing concrete retaining
wall to be removed, and a new stone and brick retaining wall
constructed, and it looks to me like it says eight feet from
the property line. I'm sorry, Tom, I just noticed this five
minutes ago. Anyway, I don't know whether this is a primary
forum for discussion.
TRUSTEE KING: You should have the survey corrected showing
accurate measurements.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: What was your comment on the concrete wall?
MR. COHEN: I don't know that much about zoning regulations,
I know that they normally deal with where the structure is
located in relation to a property line.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: This one's going to be removed.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Okay.
TRUSTEE KING: That's a Zoning issue.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We just need to have correct plans in
our file. We can approve per new, corrected survey. Thank
you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak for or
against this permit? I'll make a motion to close the
hearing
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the
Wetland Permit to construct alterations and additions to the
single-family dwelling and extensions to the existing porch
and deck, with the stipulation that hay bales be placed in
front of the tree line before construction or alterations
and also per corrected survey.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Conservation Advisory Council approved
this and it's exempt from LWRP. All in favor? ALL AYES.
5. BENJAMIN & JOCELYN SUGLlA request a Wetland
Permit to construct a 14' by 37' wood deck attached to the
seaward side of the existing dwelling; remove 8' by 13'
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
section on seaward side of dwelling within the existing
footprint, construct two additions to dwelling, one 6' by
16' and one 8' by 13' both on the landward side of the
dwelling and both on concrete block foundation. Located:
4639 Stillwater Avenue, Cutchogue -- SCTM#137-3-7
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I actually inspected this three years
ago. Unfortunately they let the permit go so we're back
again looking at the same renovations. LWRP reviewed it to
be inconsistent, however, the comments made by LWRP I
believe we can accommodate. My question was I had a concern
about the distance on the east side of the house where the
proposed new deck was because it was very, very close to the
corner of that property where the wetland was, but
Mr. Suglia remeasured it for me and his deck almost comes to
the inch within 50 feet. LWRP had a concern about the
proposed setback from the wetlands because it was 99
feet. Is there anyone here who would like to speak to this
application? CAC recommends approval of the application
with the condition dry wells and gutters are installed to
contain the roof runoff, and there is no change to the
existing buffer. Again, I had a concern about the elevation
is quite steep again on that east side of the building and
my recommendation and conditions would be again, to have
staked hay bales even though there's no excavation, it's
quite elevated and within 50 feet. All of the other
additions are very minor, porches and decks and there is
only two areas where I think they're going to increase a
kitchen area. So, if there are no other comments from the
public, no other comments from the Board, you saw this,
Dave? TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes, I agree.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to close the
hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the
Wetland Permit for the additions and renovations for 4639 Stillwater Avenue
and to make it consistent with the LWRP, I'm going to ask
that erosion and sediment controls, hay bales to protect the
wetlands system, and I want to ask for the hay bales to be
on the proposed front deck or the deck to the east side of
the building, along at the top of the slight bluff
there. LWRP also asks that there be native decease
resistant and draught tolerant landscaping to minimize the
irrigation and fertilizer applications and also that gutters
and down spouts are required for all of the new addition and
renovation areas.
Board of Trustees
35
February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And dry wells.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes, gutters, down spout, subsurface dry
wells to control storm water runoff. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: And revised plans.
MS. CUSACK: Peggy, does the plan show that nonturf area?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: The original one did. Landward edge of
wetlands, yes.
6. Searles, Stromski, Associates on behalf of JULIE
ANNE HAERR requests a Wetland Permit to construct first and
second floor additions to the existing dwelling, two car
attached garage, and concrete patio. Located: 305 Mill
Creek Drive, Southold. SCTM#135-3-28
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: CAC approves with conditions: Recommend
approval of application with condition of gutters and dry
wells installed containing roof runoff and all trees above
eight inches remain. It is inconsistent with the LWRP
basically because of the setback to the wetlands systems.
It's only 60.3 and it will require sediment control same as
previous application. Made of disease resistant and draught
tolerant plantings, and gutters, down spouts, subsurface dry
wells to control water runoff. Is there anybody here to
speak on behalf of this application?
MR. STROMSKI: My name is Robert Stromski, I'm a member of
Searles, Strom ski Associates, the architects for the
project. Just for the record, I have the affidavits of
posting and mailing and the cards, I want to present them.
One of the things I'd just like to comment on is
unfortunately in the application there was a
misinterpretation on the actual amount of cubic yardage to
be excavated. I have a letter here which basically
describes, there was a typo on the application. The actual
correct amount of cubic yards of material that would be
removed due to the excavation for the new crawl space of the
addition and the foundation of the garage would only be 28.8
cubic feet. I would like to present this letter to the
Board for the record just noting that that correction was
made and that it is not 65 cubic yards as stated in the
application. Also in the application and noticing on the
description of the notice, there seems to be just a little
bit of miscommunication as to the concrete patio in the rear
in the project. The actual intention of the project is that
that concrete patio's going to be removed and that that is
actually going to become a wood deck. There is a note on
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
the survey that was submitted that it shows the concrete
patio, and then in small print it says to be covered by wood
deck, I just wanted to make a clarification tonight that
that is the true intention, that the concrete patio would be
removed and a concrete and a wood deck would be replaced on
that footprint with a small extension towards the area as
indicated on the survey. If the Board has any questions, I
have no problem answering.
TRUSTEE KING: On what you submitted to us, I think that
should be regraded, not "regarded."
MR. STROMSKI: Yes.
MS. CUSACK: I just want to let the Board know a letter came
in from a neighbor for comment. She called and said she
couldn't make the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Okay, I'll just read it briefly. It's
dated the 13th.
"My name is Patricia Jaeger, I reside at 420 Mill
Creek Drive, diagonally across the street from the residence
in question. Mill Colony is plagued by flooding and water
collecting and sitting for extended periods of time in
moderate rainfall and snow. Any rain or snow above moderate
is a flooding disaster due to practically nonexistent
drains. There is a drain in front of 260 Mill Creek Drive,
directly across the street from the property in question;
however, this drain is nonfunctioning, despite requests from
the owner of 260 Mill Creek Drive, Christine Popovich, to
the Town of Southold to come and clear the drain. The next
drain is opposite 540 Mill Creek Drive, which does nothing
to stop the water from flooding from my home, 420 Mill Creek
Drive and 260 Mill Creek Drive.
"My concern is that any new precedents being
established will add to existing problem which becomes worse
daily. It is necessary for me to go out of state and I
regret I can't make it."
That's basically it. I don't see where her comments,
although they're important, I will note them to the storm water
runoff committee, but I don't see where they have anything to
do with this application.
TRUSTEE KING: No, this project, if they're going to have
dry wells and gutters for runoff, it should be an
improvement over what's there now.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: As I stated before, the inconsistency,
first of all, is there any other comment from anybody else?
MS. GAVOSTIC: My name is Jessie Gavostic,
and I have the adjoining property, and the proposed garage
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
is only eight feet away from my line. So I'm objecting to
that.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: That unfortunately is not something that
we address, that's a Zoning issue. I don't know what the
setbacks are as far as Building Department or if he has to
go to the Zoning Board?
MR. STROMSKI: There is an application into the Zoning Board
of Appeals at this point. We haven't been told of a
hearing. At that point, ma'am, you would be able to make
comment, there would be a public hearing for that particular
portion of the project.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: But environmentally, is there any other
comment?
MS. GIBERT: Ann Gibert, I live on Mill Creek Drive, not
adjacent. But number one, believe this is too close to the
property line. Number two, the proposed deck, five years
ago I was not permitted to put up a deck because I was too
close to the water line, so I don't see why an exception
should be made here. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KING: How close is the deck?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I don't see a deck, it's a patio.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It's a patio, it's 50.6 feet on one
corner.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: 73 on the other -- 50 feet.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Again, that's a zoning issue.
TRUSTEE KING: What was the distance from her deck?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: What was the distance from your deck to
the water?
MS. GIBERT: I would have been 65 feet from the water, and
they wouldn't let you do.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Was it the Board of Trustees?
MS. GIBERT: No, it was the Zoning Board.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: That's a different board. Again, that's a
Zoning issue, you'll have to bring it up with them. Any
other comment pertaining to the Trustees? LWRP I think we
can make it consistent by requiring erosion control sediment
during construction, line of hay bales approximately 15 feet
seaward of the patio, a line of hay bales across the
property, 15 feet from the patio, and we'd also like to see
during construction, even though this is not -- you're not
doing anything to the bulkhead, if we can see a 15 foot
nonturf buffer behind the bulkhead, since you're going to be
ripping up part of that lawn if you can at that point
consider that, to plant any native, disease resistant or
draught tolerant landscaping. And the other thing is
gutters, down spouts, to connect the two dry wells.
Board of Trustees
38
February 15, 2006
AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just have a question as to the location
of the bulkhead you're referring to.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'm sorry, not the bulkhead. Isn't this
the one buffer, nonturf buffer for our notes, but we didn't
say --
TRUSTEE KING: I don't think we looked at anything down here
for a buffer?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Okay, I'm just reading what our field
notes say. I don't think we talked on this one about that.
There's no bulkheading, that's why it confused me with
that. This area is vegetated already.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Maybe it just means keep the buffer if
it's existing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Again, with a note to maintain the current
buffer you have. If there's no further comment, I make a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'll make a motion to approve the
application submitted by Searle, Stromski Associates on
behalf of Julie Anne Haerr for a Wetland Permit to construct
a first and second floor addition to the existing dwelling,
two car attached garage and concrete patio on 305 Mill Creek
Drive, with the conditions of a hay bale line during
construction, 15 feet off the patio, and gutters, down
spouts connected to dry wells and any landscaping that could
be done have native disease resistant and draught tolerant
landscaping, minimize irrigation and fertilization
applications. If that is all done, then it will become
consistent with LWRP. That is a motion.
MR. STROMSKI: At this point I would like to submit a
revised plan showing hay bales and just note the dimension
of 15 foot from the wood deck, we also have dry wells
showing, actually it's locating three.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: You've already done that?
MR. STROMSKI: Yes. I just added this dimension here.
Basically try to pick a six foot elevation but if you wanted
15 feet, we have no problem with that.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Thank you. We'll just mark that in the
permit because it is pretty well vegetated and we'll mark in
the permit that we want it kept that way. So I made that
motion.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? ALL AYES.
7. J.M.O. Environmental Consulting, Inc. on behalf
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
of ROBERT SPITZENBERG requests a Wetland Permit to
reconstruct in place 107 feet of timber bulkheading
utilizing vinyl sheathing, and to dredge a 10' by 101' area
immediately seaward of the bulkhead to minus 4 feet average
low water. The resultant spoil, 30 cubic yards of sand,
shall be used as backfill for the reconstructed bulkhead.
Located: 375, Elizabeth Lane, Southold. SCTM#78-5-4
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to speak on this?
MR. JUST: Good evening, Glen Just, J.M.O. Consulting for
the applicant.
TRUSTEE KING: We all went out and looked at it, it looks
pretty straightforward. It was found generally
consistent. CAC comments approval with the condition that a
20 foot nonturf buffer landward of the bulkhead be put in,
which we concur with, and the rest of it is pretty
straightforward. Are there any other comments on this
application? Any Board comments? I'll make a motion to
close the hearing.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with a 20 foot nonturf buffer behind the bulkhead.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
8. Patricia C. Moore, Esq. on behalf of ROBERT &
SUSAN TOMAN requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' by
40' dock 3.5' above grade, a 3' by 8' ramp, and a 5' by 18'
floating dock. Located: 3795 Main Bayview Road, Southold
SCTM#78-2-15.2
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone here to speak on behalf
of this application?
MS. MOORE: Patricia Moore, I'll try to go quickly. It's a
long night. I verified with Mr. Toman where he had staked,
if you recall, we measured it was about 21 feet, which is
what the drawing had shown. He actually took the first at
the beginning of the ramp, right at the edge of the water,
so that it doesn't extend beyond that 21. I think that's
what you were concerned with that what he was showing is not
where a float would begin but rather where the float ended;
that's exactly what he measured. The increase cross-section
was a little confusing because he didn't put three stakes,
he only put the one from the edge of the shoreline out to
the furthest point, which is the 21 feet.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Pat, was that post then the end of the
dock or the end of the dock and boat? That was our --
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
MS. MOORE: That was the end of the float, because the boat
is actually incorporated -- if you see the float and the
boat are the same.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Okay.
MS. MOORE: Okay, they're parallel.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: But it's the end of it?
MS. MOORE: Yes, it's the end. That was I think the only
question you had. He had no problems with that condition,
that 21 feet be the end of it.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll just read, it was found
inconsistent and visual quality scenic resources.
MS. MOORE: I guess he didn't notice the multiple docks.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'm just quoting. The materials used to
construct the dock have not been specified.
MS. MOORE: The standard, which is what you require, no CCA
treated lumber. Here says all lumber from approved list and
hardware galvanized. It's right on the cross-section.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Okay. The proposed action does not
propose a restoration plan.
MS. MOORE: I don't think there is any restoration plan.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Pat, do you have a DEC permit?
MS. MOORE: No. I think they're waiting to see what you
guys do because they had a question about the right of
way. I am waiting, I submitted it, I haven't gotten
anything back.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: If I can just share this with the rest
of the Board, the location of the parcel the applicant
currently enjoys access to the water. The use and need of a
dock has not been identified. The dock structure's out of
scale; 3, the proposed construction methods have not been
identified; and 4, the application does not propose
mitigation to the areas impacted. I think those have been
talked about and the materials are there. The dock is -- I
don't see any inconsistency based on what we observed and
what we dealt with.
TRUSTEE KING: Do you want to limit the size of the piles to
say six inch?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Sure.
MS. MOORE: That was already.
TRUSTEE KING: It's in there?
MS. MOORE: Let me see, no, Bob Fox wasn't able to redraw
this in the short time, but that's fine, six inch piles is
fine.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Are we okay with the third?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: For everybody's information the CAC
Board of Trustees
41
February 15, 2006
resolved to recommend disapproval. The CAC recommended
disapproval because the proposed docking facility is too
close to the property line. We talked about --
MS. MOORE: I think we moved it.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Yes, we moved it over and they may not
have seen it, exceeds one-third across the width, which,
again, we accounted for and we dealt with. So, are there
any other comments from anybody in the audience? I make a
motion that we close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Then I'll make a motion that we will
approve the application of Robert and Susan Toman with the
changes of size of piling, with the dock will not be more
than 20 feet from the shoreline.
TRUSTEE KING: Overall length including the float.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Right, dock and float will not extend
more than 20 feet from the shoreline and I believe that's it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: All in favor? ALL AYES.
9. Patricia C. Moore, Esq. on behalf of EDWARD
WERTHNER requests a Wetland Permit to install a 3 by 17
seasonal ramp and 5 by 18 floating dock with two 8" diameter
piles. Located: 180 Windy Point Lane, Southold.
SCTM#78-6-3.3
TRUSTEE KING: Anyone here to comment on this?
MS. MOORE: I'm Pat Moore. Based on field inspections we
were asking to amend the application to be more consistent
with the Board's recommendations. What we proposed is a 4'
by 12' walk with steps to grade into the water. We also
will plant intertidal area with spartina 12" on center in
front of the catwalk.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Did not we also say that the replantings
were going to be done at the same time as construction?
MS. MOORE. You asked. It wasn't done as part of this
drawing, but the prior open permit prior to issuance of I
think -- I don't know, do you have a sign off at the end,
prior to final approval after construction? We were going
to have the plantings of the open permit completed by
then.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Just that it be done.
MS. MOORE: Exactly, so we would have coordinated
plantings.
TRUSTEE KING: Just for the record, it's been found
inconsistent with the LWRP, but I think this is based on the
Board of Trustees
42
February 15, 2006
original not the modifications we made because it says it
will impede with navigation, 22 foot total length, it
doesn't exist any more. I think what --
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I looked at that before, just while the
other hearing was going on. I looked at it and I think we
have taken care of it with the revised plan, it's a 10 page
document, literally.
MS. MOORE: I appreciate the Board's suggestions, they were
good suggestions and Mr. Werthner's here, he had no problem
with it, it gives him good access.
TRUSTEE KING: We try.
MS. MOORE: It was very good practical suggestions, which we
always appreciate.
MR. WERTHNER: Excuse me, I'm Edward Werthner , was I to
bring some fill in behind there and bring it up to level
before I plant?
TRUSTEE KING: You can raise it a little but keep it below
the top of the bulkhead.
MR. WERTHNER: About four inches?
TRUSTEE KING: Sure, that would be good.
MS. MOORE: Bring some fill in and leave a lip so it doesn't
spill over the bulkhead, correct?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: And the plantings.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes, the plantings will be done when this
is done.
TRUSTEE KING: Any other comments? Comments from the Board?
I make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
based on new plans showing the new description of a 12'
catwalk with steps at the end, and there will be replanting
done at the same time that this is installed.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: Peggy will be excusing herself, she's
suffered through most of this hearing with a migraine, so
she'll be leaving now.
(Whereupon, Trustee Dickerson left the hearing
room.)
10. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of
ANDREW WILLS requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' by
16' ramp onto a 4' by 20' fixed dock and ending with a 32"
by 16' seasonal aluminum ramp onto a seasonal 6' by 20'
Board of Trustees
43
February 15, 2006
floating dock secured by three 6" piles. located: 1675
Bayview Avenue, Southold. SCTM#52-5-8.1
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Is there anybody here to speak on behalf of
this application?
MR. COSTEllO: John Costello, Costello Marine Contracting
Corp. I am the agent for this application by Andrew
Wills. And the description that was just read is slightly
wrong, and I just don't want that to be a controversy after
the construction and the violation is issued, if it should
ever occur. I want to pay the dues now.
We intended to construct a 4' by 16' ramp onto a 4'
by 30' fixed dock ending with a 32" by 16' aluminum ramp,
and a 6' by 20' float. Both the float and the ramp were
going to be installed on a seasonal basis, including the
three pilings used to secure the float. I believe that the
Trustees met with Mr. Wills at the site, and thought that
the 90 foot length of the overall structure was excessive.
Mr. Wills was a gentleman, and he called our office and he
said I would wish to try to satisfy not only the Trustees
and reduce overall length by 20 feet, I would also like to
move the float into an "l" position instead of straight out
because my neighbor to the north is objecting about the
float and he could see it at his house. So if it was put in
an "l" position, heading to the north, it would minimize the
view to the neighbor, and he said he would prefer that and
that would be fine with him. So what I did was prepare
three additional plans showing exactly lessening the length
of the dock, moving the float in a different position, which
is not offshore to the Board. You'll see that the structure
is being reduced from a 90' total length to a 66' because a
lamp is in the middle of a 6' wide float.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I have a question on the code, because I'm
not familiar with the section where it says no new docks in
Arshamomaque; what does that say?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: If I could back up. lWRP found this
inconsistent because: Please be advised that the proposed
action is within a significant coastal fish and wildlife
habitat area, Arshamomaque Pond. I believe when we were out
there, the discussion we had with Mr. Wills was that we did
not -- we were not in favor of putting docks out there in
Arshamomaque Pond; is that correct; to the Board members,
correct? This is about a five, six page opinion on the lWRP
finding it inconsistent because of that. But we had
mentioned to Mr. Wills out there was a stake and pulley
system as I recall, put a stake and pulley system out to the
boat, if that would make him happy because we explained to
Board of Trustees
44
February 15, 2006
him that we had not approved docks in Arshamomaque Pond. So
that was a discussion we had with him out at the site.
MR. COSTEllO: Well, you have approved docks in Arshamomaque
Pond. The only trouble is since the lWRP has been adopted,
that's a short time ago, there has not been, to my
knowledge, a dock in Arshamomaque Pond. But whether that is
a policy or regulation, I am not -- it is a critical area,
unquestionably, and I would like to know what difference and
what impacts a dock ever this size would have on that. I
would be curious to know the answer.
MR. JOHNSTON: Jim, 97-27 B3 (a) prohibited locations and
activities. David, is that what you're thinking about?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Right. Prohibited locations and
activities, and I'll read it: "Given this unique and
sensitive natural environmental characteristics described in
the Southold local Waterfront Revitalization Plan, New York
State Department of State significant habitat descriptions,
no new docks will be permitted over vegetated wetlands or
such as it causes habitat fragmentation of which vegetated
wetlands in Arshamomaque Creek" as well as a couple other
areas.
MR. COSTEllO: The key term in that as you mentioned twice,
"vegetated wetlands." Now you will also notice that the
selection of the site is the only area on that property that
has no vegetated wetlands.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: You're correct. I'm looking at the
pictures.
MR. COSTEllO: You visited the site. And also CAC
recommended approval with the condition of all disturbed
areas are replanted after construction.
Again, we picked the site so that there would be minimal
disturbance. And that was one of the reasons that the owner
of the property was willing to mitigate it even further and
reduce whatever you think was necessary. That was only from
the general comment from someone on the Board who visited
the site and thought it was an excessively long structure.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: No new docks will be permitted over
vegetated wetlands or such that it causes habitat
fragmentation of vegetated wetlands. Like Mr. Costello
said, there's no vegetated wetlands where he's proposing the
dock; am I reading that right?
MR. JOHNSTON: Thank you very much, when we enacted this
-- just for the record to help establish a record, are we
all convinced that this application is Arshamomaque Creek
area or in Arshamomaque Pond area?
TRUSTEE KING: Yes.
Board of Trustees
45
February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Yes.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes.
MR. JOHNSTON: Then the second thing for this it would
prohibit docks if it's going over vegetated wetlands; you
have to decide that and then you have to decide, if not
that, would it cause habitat fragmentation of vegetated
wetlands. So those two criteria, I would ask you to have
the record show that you have decided that neither of those
apply or they do apply. So you have to do three things:
Establish where it is, and then convince yourself that
either the other two items either apply or don't apply. As
long as the record shows that.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'm abstaining because I didn't look at
this at all. This was before I was on the Board.
MR. COSTEllO: Water depths were done by Bob Fox.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: looks like at the end of the dock you're
four feet?
MR. COSTEllO: Yes.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I know he's reduced it, can he reduce it
more?
MR. COSTEllO: He possibly could. I think for DEC purposes,
I think that you want to try to keep, no matter what, the
offshore edge of the floating dock in three and a half foot
of water, so you're going to invite other problems.
TRUSTEE KING: They've given us seasonal floats in two and a
half feet. That would be my preference and it depends upon
the analyst.
MR. COSTEllO: let me tell you, it depends upon the
analyst. I've seen it all. I've seen denials in four
foot. You could reduce it because of the bridge, you're not
going to put a big boat anyway.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: We noted when we were out there the boat is
a 13' Boston Whaler. So the depth was not an issue to him
because of the Boston Whaler, if we could reduce it to 4' by
20' and still
have --
MR. COSTEllO: Again, I'm sure that the Board members know
that the tides, even in the summer when the tides are more
constant and more consistent, that the tides do vary each
day because of the moon's condition. So just don't put it
on the bottom because I don't think that's what you want.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The Board doesn't want that either.
TRUSTEE KING: Make it 4' by 20'.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: If you move it in 20, you'll still be past
that 2.7. You'll be at the 3.
Board of Trustees
46
February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE KING: John, is it a need to make it a three pile
dock, can you make it two?
MR. COSTEllO: Except for the end where it's prone to
ice. That would be the only section. If you moved it in
and shortened it, but if you moved it in so the boat --
TRUSTEE KING: I would recommend that that's a seasonal
float too.
MR. COSTEllO: It is a seasonal float already.
TRUSTEE KING: When will the float be taken out of the
water?
MR. COSTEllO: Whenever you decide.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We should discuss what an overall season
should be.
TRUSTEE KING: The first of November is scallop season, we
want to get stuff out of the water, if we can. That would
be my recommendation make it 1 April to 1 November. Float
has to be out of the water by the first and not in the water
before the first of April.
MR. COSTEllO: Okay. I think that that's reasonable.
TRUSTEE KING: I think that's reasonable. I know there's a
lot of shellfish activity there. We want to get that
structure out, out of the water by November and not in the
water before April 1.
MR. COSTEllO: Now, what would you like to reduce the dock
further, it appears to be another 10 feet or so, half the
length of the ramp.
TRUSTEE KING: 4' by 20' fixed dock.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That's what it is on the application, as
originally.
MR. COSTEllO: But it appears if you reduced it to half the
length of the ramp, you would still have basically a three
foot depth of water.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That should be sufficient. Are there any
other comments to be made on this application? If not, I
make a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: All in favor? All AYES.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I make a motion to approve the application
of Costello Marine Contracting on behalf of Andrew Wills
requesting a Wetland Permit to construct the ramp, fixed
dock as per the plans submitted tonight with the stipulation
that it reduced, the proposed dock is reduced from what is
shown 4' by 30' to 4' by 20'; that there will be only (1)
three pile instead of (3) three pile, only (1) three pile,
and that the seasonal floating dock will be removed from the
Board of Trustees
47
February 15, 2006
water by November 1 and not go into the water prior to April
1. Did I miss anything?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I don't think so, I think that makes it
consistent with lWRP.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Correct.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: All in favor? Aye.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Aye.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Abstain.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
MR. JOHNSTON: let the record show that Trustee Holzapfel
abstained and Trustee Dickerson is absent.
11. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of
GARDINER'S BAY ESTATES HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION requests a
Wetland Permit to remove existing floats from dock "A" and
relocate as part of the new dock "B". Install 6' by 30'
floating dock and reuse (2) existing pilings. Dock "B"
construct a 4' by 30' fixed dock with 42" by 12' ramp onto
relocated floats from dock "A" continuing onto new 5' by 28'
floating dock, ending with (2) 4' by 20' floats
perpendicular, and install four new pilings. located: Fox
Island, Gardiner's Bay Estates, East Marion. SCTM#37-4-18
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to comment on this
application?
MR. COSTEllO: John Costello.
TRUSTEE KING: I think that's the old description and you
know, John, I hate to do this to you, but we didn't get out
there to look at this with the whole Board. I'd like to
table it and I apologize to you for not getting out there.
I know I said we would. Did you stake it? Was it all
staked?
MR. COSTEllO: I don't know if it was still staked after the
last storm, but it was staked.
TRUSTEE KING: We're just going to have to go out after next
month, I apologize. I think it was found inconsistent.
MR. COSTEllO: Most of the inconsistencies, Jim, recommended
to speak with Mark. I spoke with Mark and he was not sure
that this was Southold Town Trustee bottom land or they
owned it. There were a few things he was unaware of. We
brought him up to speed that this is private bottom. He was
opposed because it may be a hindrance to navigation. He
managed the mooring system, and the intention was to reduce
the moorings, and they manage it themselves, and they have
been doing an incredible job. There have been no accidents
in the area, and there is a dead end bridge and a walkway to
Board of Trustees 48
February 15, 2006
Fox Island, which you're not going to have traffic going
through. So he was unsure of that and the situation. We
met with him at your recommendation and I think some of the
inconsistencies speak for themselves.
MR. JOHNSTON: Jim, mechanically we would have to table this
anyway. We have two recusals and we need three votes. We
only have two Trustees to vote, so mechanically we couldn't
act on it. TRUSTEE BERGEN: I recused myself. I put the
form in the box.
MR. COSTEllO: I just hope this proceeds at the next month's
agenda, obviously because in order to obtain the necessary
materials and have a usable, whatever is approved, usable
for the season in one of the other hearings earlier.
MR. JOHNSTON: John, I didn't want to waste any more time
because we can't approve it mechanically.
MR. COSTEllO: I'm just saying it's going to be difficult to
get contractors at the last minute to get these jobs
approved and one of the jobs Rob Hermann was on, he's not
going to get it done whether you approve it or not.
TRUSTEE KING: Comments?
MR. lUSHER: My name is Charles lusher, I'm the co-chairman
of the marine committee in Gardiner's Bay Estates. We
withdrew the original application, and we've done it over as
to the recommendation of the DEC. It's a simple addition to
the existing float that we have there. last month it was
tabled because Mr. Terry couldn't get around to looking at
it. There's nothing wrong with the application, there's
nothing wrong with navigation, we're well within the
one-third width of the pond. It's a simple addition to
docks and we'd like to move ahead with this, and I know you
guys were out there because I spoke with you when you all
came out and looked at the original site. The dock sits
there. All we're going to do is add this float to the end
of it and we're angling it a little bit because the
neighbors to the north, if we left it as it existed, it
would interfere with their docks. I don't see why we have
to wait another month to get started with this. Boating
season starts in another month.
MR. JOHNSTON: Sir, could I address your question? We only
have two Trustees who can vote right now because one is
recusing himself because of a conflict, potential conflict
of interest, and the other is recusing himself because he
has not viewed the property. We cannot vote. I'm sorry,
you need three votes, you only have two Trustees who can
vote. So, legally they cannot act on it, I'm sorry, and
Miss Dickerson went home, that could have been the third
Board of Trustees
49
February 15, 2006
vote, but she's not here so you only have two Trustees,
David and Jim, that can vote and you need three. John, will
you explain to your client?
MR. LUSHER: That I understand clearly.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I didn't see it. It happened back
before I was appointed.
MR. COSTELLO: The file has enough photographs of the site,
but if you haven't visited.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: But what I wanted to ask is the two
Trustees who had seen it whether they had seen any major
problem, and they said they didn't. My point was, I was
going to say to you, if you were going to worry about
contractors, it would appear that the votes are here to do
the job. You can line up people so you're not getting out
on a long limb.
MR. COSTELLO: I'm in business, I would probably take the
gamble to get the flotation device whether it's used here or
somewhere else.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That's what I was asking.
MR. COSTELLO: But it wouldn't be constructed. We would try
to get it in as quickly at the conclusion, thank you. And I
appreciate and respect not voting without seeing it. Thank
you.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to table.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Recuse.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Abstain.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Aye.
12. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of
ANN MARIE NELSON requests a Wetland Permit to remove 62 feet
of existing west bulkhead to construct 435 feet of new
bulkhead immediately in front of and within 18" of existing
bulkhead using vinyl sheathing, removing 65 feet of existing
east and north bulkhead sections and replace
in-kind/in-place using vinyl sheathing repair 30 feet of
existing stone north bulkhead in-place. Relocate existing
concrete blocks above spring high water line. Maintenance
dredge existing basins to a depth of 4' below mean low water
approximately 1650 to 2000 cubic yards deposit spoil sand as
beach nourishment on southwest side of inlet between high
water and high marsh area. Located: 1420 Ninth Street,
Greenport. SCTM#45-6-9.4
TRUSTEE BERGEN: There is nothing here from the LWRP. Is
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50
February 15, 2006
there anybody here to speak on behalf of this application?
MR. COSTEllO: Again, my name is John Costello. We are the
agents for the Nelsons on this application, and I would like
to try to contribute again, I contributed some information I
believe at the last two hearings, and I would like to try to
add a little more.
The adjacent property that is to the west of this
has been eroding over a period of time. The photographs
submitted as part of the application shows that the beach
has receded on the west side an incredible amount. They're
backing piling approximately 25 feet out into the
water. The backing piling for the bulkhead was covered and
buried in sand at one stage. The adjacent property owner
that is 50 feet further to the west is also eroding and had
been eroding over a period of time. It's probably stablized
now, and they would allow -- I believe they would
allow, she's here tonight -- allow the additional sand to be
placed on the west side so that it acts as a bypass of the
jetty effect that is created by the east bulkhead. The east
bulkhead is filled. The DEC met with me onsite two and a
half months ago or three months ago, and said that they
would not allow a crib structure, two bulkheads adjoining
and filling them on the east side, lessening degree area
that we could place the spoil. There's only a certain
amount of yardage you can place in a 15 foot by 50 foot
area, and I believe the adjacent property owners could or
would accommodate the larger area and let it act as a
bypass. The rest of it is all existing, functional
structures except for the east filled dock.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I just have a comment regarding lWRP.
spoke to Mark. He did not complete his review. I don't
know if he had a chance to call you.
MR. COSTEllO: No, we talked to him about it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: He felt that the water quality questions were not
answered.
MR. COSTEllO: There are some water quality -- and this
Board is aware of the water quality issues that presented
themselves last week and the DEC has been notified that the
raw sewage is going into the wetlands. And the Highway
Department of Southold Town went and looked at the
site. What is done, again, to Southold Town road it is the
DEC's function, I don't believe it's a function of the
Nelsons or myself, but this pollutant pouring into the
wetlands. Now, one of the problems with that, the area and
square acreage of that wetlands area is probably absorbing
most of the nitrates that are being placed illegally in the
Board of Trustees
51
February 15, 2006
wetlands. Wetlands have that ability, and I hope and I
would think, that the circulation, increased circulation
would lessen that degree.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Just for the record, the Trustees did write
a letter to the county Health Department to bring their
attention to what we felt was a serious issue.
MR. COSTEllO: Go down there on a rainy day and you
will.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: The problem we're having is the burden of
proof is why nothing is quickly getting done.
MR. COSTEllO: It's called a subpoena. And you can make
them, he has neglected to allow anyone in this house, there
are ways of getting in the house, and I'm not a lawyer,
don't intend to be. You can get in the house, put die in
and you can prove. Again, Mark's concern about some of
these things is justifiable, but I would think that the
increased circulation into that meadow and the wetlands
area, long term will not hurt it, it will help it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Also for the record, the CAC recommended
approval of this permit as far as constructing bulkhead, it
was all bulkhead issues that they approved here.
MR. COSTEllO: One of the things when you do a bypass, I
tell you, placing fill on an eroded beach wants to be
consistent with the material in the area. They want the
consistency of the material being placed on the beach, not
lighter, not heavier. This material that is in this basin
is extremely consistent, that's where it came from.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Correct. Anybody else like to comment on
this application?
MS. JURZENIA: Hi, I'm Darlene Duffy Jurzenia, and I represent
the Jurzenia family, we own approximately 1400 feet to the
west, along the shore, to the west of the Nelson
property. Mr. Costello is correct, and I appreciate his
efforts to the DEC on our behalf. I have been begging -- as
you know, I have been begging the DEC, the Health
Department, the Health Department at the state level in
Albany. I have had lawyers writing letters. It's been
obnoxious for five, six years maybe to get things done about
the discharge. I'm not sure, the DEC told Mr. Costello that
they're on it, they're doing it, but I think you got a
packet from my sister-in-law that gives you some of the
history of the testing that's been done there. I've had
Cornell test it, I have had everybody test it over and over
and over and over. There's a problem and no one has done
anything for years and years and years. I'm not sure that
they're going to do anything about it. If they tell you
Board of Trustees
52
February 15, 2006
they're going to do it and then you give them permission,
once again, they don't have to pursue it. I know the Health
Department sent the homeowner in question a subpoena. He
went to his lawyer, his lawyer told him don't let them
in. He didn't let them in, that's it; that's where it
ended, that had to be three, four years ago. So that's a
big concern of mine. The DEC closed that marsh to
shellfishing and within 100 feet radius of the outlet in the
bay. And the outlet is pretty much completely full. It
needs to be dredged no doubt, you can walk across it. Miss
Bioxa, and I together probably have I don't know how many
oysters out there. We have hundreds of thousands of
oysters, so my concern is if you open it, what is going to
happen, Mr. Costello thinks it will be better. I don't know
if it's going to be better or worse. I don't know if it
will be a straight shot from that house into the bay. They
have tested all the way through. One of the colleges, I
think the marine biology department in Southampton, which is
now part of Stony Brook, did a study and they put orange
tennis balls in to follow the effluent to see how long it
takes to get out into the bay and all of that. So I'm not
sure if you have that report, I think you do. It doesn't
just disappear. It gets right out there. So I'm worried
about my oyster beds. I've always been worried about the
health of the meadow. Mark Terry told me he would never
recommend for you to do anything there until that effluent
is taken care of because he is concerned about our oyster
beds. We have hundreds of thousands of oysters out there.
The only thing I have to say is in reading your
little paragraph about this case it says you're directing
them -- and I appreciate it because I asked you to do this
at the last
meeting -- to deposit the spoil sand as beach nourishment on
the southwest side of the inlet. I would like you to be
more specific because I really want some of that to be on my
property because the southwest side of the inlet is a 50
foot parcel that belongs to the Nelson family. I own 1,400
feet beyond that. So I can tell you over the last, the
property's been in the family for 40 years, but I've only
been in the family for 32, so I can only tell you about the
last 32 years. There used to be a lot of erosion there
until the inlet filled in. Now my beach is pretty well
nourished, reconstructed, because the inlet has been filled
up for the last -- I don't know how long -- years, it hasn't
been dredged in years. So when the inlet filled in, the
beach stablized and actually -- so I really want some of the
Board of Trustees
53
February 15, 2006
spoil from the dredging to go back in my property.
TRUSTEE KING: Thank you.
MR. YAXA: My name is Dean Yaxa, I also grow oysters out
there, and I'd like to make a few comments. The pipe that's
under Silvermere Road there, it's just placed there, there's
no easement, no there's no permit, there's no nothing. It
just was put there and it's totally illegal. It should be
taken out. Nobody seems to want to take it out, nobody
seems to want to pucker up and take it out, but anyway that
was one point. The second thing is if the meadow were
filtering the pollutants, the water wouldn't be -- the area
outside the 100 foot buffer, which the DEC just closed, and
the water going out there, if it was being filtered, it
wouldn't be dirty. If you open it up, the sand that's there
is holding back the pollution, I feel it's holding it back,
and if you -- just like pulling a drain plug and we're
concerned that the 100 foot buffer or the 100 foot area
that's closed, the ring around the bulkhead there is going
to extend right out to the oysters at 500 feet out. I own
the bottom land there, I have a grant. It's usable
property, income producing property. If the pollution comes
out any further, we're out of business. I can't let that
happen.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Question for you because it isn't shown
here. Approximately how far is it from the mouth of that
inlet from the bay to your oyster beds because I'm
invisioning --
MR. YAKSA: 500 feet.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: 500 feet to the southwest.
MR. YAKSA: Actually, the oyster bed from the shoreline or
from the shoreline.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: From the entrance to --
MR. Y AXA: 500 feet out. We're cut off from -- actually
400 feet out, there's a ring around that. And you dredge
the sand out and put the bulkhead there. All the pollution
is still coming from this pipe, it's in the meadow, the tide
changes, zingo, it's still out. And I defy anyone of you
to tell me that the DEC isn't going to close more land to
shellfishing. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Also read for the Board -- and I apologize
I should have read this. There is one letter attached here,
it's a memo from Heather Cusack to the Board saying the
following need to be assessed, review before a decision is
made, water quality issue and impact of dredging on the
oyster farm, Health Department sampling of water from pipes
into the marsh, look at system as a whole, the marsh
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54
February 15, 2006
development problem, the impact of replacing bulkheading and
dredging, assess impact on shellfish beds and oyster farm.
MR. YAXA: I'm not opposed to the bulkheading process, I'm
opposed to what's going to happen if it's done with the
pollution. There's three or four families that are paying
their bills off the oysters out there and I have no
retirement, I'm self-employed, and I'm not going anywhere,
and I need to be out there.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Any comments from the Board?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: One final comment.
MR. COSTEllO: One final comment, no matter what, I don't
think this should be a rush to decision because without
stopping, the effluent if going into the wetlands, we're
going backwards. You got to stop the start of the
problem. That certainly without that being stopped any road
runoff that is occurring and entering the wetlands, thank
God there's only one road, if that is occurring it should be
looked at. Those are the only pollutants that are going to
enter into those wetlands. That's a pretty pristine
wetlands, it's beautiful wetlands, they were generous to
give it as a park. For somebody to put a toilet in there is
not a right thing, so once that's corrected and you can't
replace the bulkhead, and there's no need to replace the
bulkhead without the dredging occurring, but I think the
process, there's no rush to decision. I think that the
process should be eliminating, the sewage first and then
we'll continue.
TRUSTEE KING: John, just a question, the littoral drift is
from east to west here?
MR. COSTEllO: It's from east to west, that's why the east
jetty is totally fill, and there's a great loss of fill on
the west side.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The aerial photograph you can definitely
see it's from east to west.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is there anything recently from the health
department?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: No.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So they never commented.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Not in the file.
TRUSTEE KING: You know, you talk about going in the house,
I had an incident in Mattituck Creek, almost the same thing
and in talking to conservation officers, there was no judge
that would give them a search warrant to go in the house and
put a tab in the toilet.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: That's what the problem is.
MR. COSTEllO: I believe the DEC has been notified and Chuck
Board of Trustees 55
February 15, 2006
Hamilton has been notified, and if there's one man at the
DEC that could solve this problem, I think and the officer
that did inspect it for the pollutants, he said he would
have difficulty himself, and you better put it over into the
enforcement bureau, which Mr. Hamilton is the head of.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: There's got to be a way to stop this.
MR. COSTEllO: It's crazy.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We'll continue to talk and we'll talk
about it with the Highway Department.
MR. COSTEllO: Make it a no discharge zone.
TRUSTEE KING: Any other comments?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Any other comments from the Board? If
there are no other comments from the audience, I'll
entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: All in favor?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: We definitely want to table it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I was going to then go to table, but, okay,
I propose that we make a motion that we table this
application.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: All in favor? All AYES.
13. land Use Ecological Services on behalf of DAVID
JOHNSON requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct an existing
235' by 52" wood catwalk. located: East End Road, Fishers
Island. SCTM#7-4-7
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to represent the
applicant to comment on this application?
MS. CANTARA: Kelly Cantara for land Use Ecological Services
representing Mr. Johnson. Just here to answer any questions
that you might have.
TRUSTEE KING: We looked at this down on the lawn a little
through the phragmites.
TRUSTEE KING: I just had a few questions.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We have a question, overall we didn't have
a problem.
TRUSTEE KING: Not a big huge problem. How first of all,
we'll make it 4' wide instead of 52".
MS. CANTARA: Sure, no problem.
TRUSTEE KING: How is this work going to be done, and
another question is why do you need 10 feet of penetration
for the piles for a small catwalk like this?
MS. CANTARA: We don't need to. It's just standard.
TRUSTEE KING: Because what's been there has been there a
Board of Trustees 56
February 15, 2006
long, long time. It almost looks like small locust
posts.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Six inch we also said, right?
MS. CANTARA: We can revise the piles to whatever you
recommend, it's no problem.
TRUSTEE KING: We also talked about possibly using
fiberglass grating rather than wood, it's not that we're
going to require it, but it would be a nice way to go in
that location, and how is the work going to be conducted;
how are the poles going to be put in?
MS. CANTARA: I imagine they're going to be driven in.
TRUSTEE KING: By hand?
MS. CANTARA: Probably.
TRUSTEE KING: It's been there a long time, this is a
sensitive area. I'd like to see all the work done by
hand. Get these posts in By hand, 6" piles are more than
adequate, even a 4' by 4' are adequate. It's a very low
catwalk through a field of phragmites to get out to the
beach. It doesn't have to be anything massive, you know.
didn't have a problem with it. Just those issues, keep it
light, no CCA; was there anything from LWRP? MS. CUSACK:
It was exempt.
TRUSTEE KING: That would be my preference, keep it 4' wide
and installation of the poles not to exceed a 6" diameter.
That would be my preference.
MS. CANTARA: That's no problem.
TRUSTEE KING: And I would recommend the fiberglass grating,
if they don't want to use that, it should be an untreated
wood. Anything else? I think that was it, 4' wide, same
elevation. CAC didn't go there. Any other comments on this
application? I make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with the changes stipulated.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
MS. CANTARA: Thank you very much, have a good night.
TRUSTEE KING: A new plan showing the width.
MS. CANTARA: We'll have those probably within the week.
14. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of CATHERINE &
RICHARD REINKEN requests a Wetland Permit to demolish an
existing, one-story, one-family dwelling and construct
partially over same foundation wall new, one and one-half
story, one-family dwelling with attached garage; remove two
Board of Trustees
57
February 15, 2006
existing sanitary systems and construct beyond Chapter 97
jurisdiction new sanitary system; reconfigure existing
public water service line; install drainage system of dry
wells and extend existing driveway beyond Chapter 97
jurisdiction. Located: 1935 Pine Tree Road, Cutchogue.
SCTM#98-1-11.1
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Is there anybody here to speak on behalf of
this application?
MR. HERMANN: Yes, Rob Hermann of En-Consultants on behalf
of the Reinkens. The application is as described. The new
house will sit no closer to the wetlands than the existing
structure; in fact, most of the easterly foundation wall
will be reused for the new dwelling and all the expansion
will be to the west towards the road. There will be a
system of dry wells installed to recapture and recharge
runoff. There are two existing sanitary systems, one of
which is presently nonconforming, it's located within your
jurisdictional area. There will be a new sanitary system
installed beyond 100 feet and outside your jurisdictional
area.
If the Board has any specific questions about the
application, I'd be happy to answer them.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: This was consistent with the LWRP and the
CAC recommended approval with the condition that there's no
construction seaward of the existing footage and there's no
disturbance to the bluff.
MR. HERMANN: That will all be consistent with what's
proposed. There's a row of staked hay bales with silt
retention fence shown along the landward side of the
existing top of the bank and that's all in brick patio and
deck area and wood deck area that is to remain as the
structures that were permitted by this Board in the 90s, and
those are all to remain and not to be disturbed during
construction.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I noted on here in addition to the staked
hay bales, a silt retention fence?
MR. HERMANN: Yes, that's shown on the site plan.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Was there anybody else who wanted to speak
on behalf of this application? Any Board comments with
regards to the application?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: LWRP's consistent?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes, LWRP's consistent. I'm sorry, there
is a note, it's not a letter it's a note here attached. We,
the Kosminka family, at 1985 Pine Tree Road have no problem
with the Reinken family's request for Wetland Permit. We
are certain that any improvement that they intend to make on
Board of Trustees
58
February 15, 2006
their property will enhance the area. We are in support of
their request.
MR. HERMANN: Getting a lot of neighborly support tonight.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Isn't that a beautiful thing?
MR. HERMANN: Yes, once in eight years.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The only thing that we ask for was a
nonturf buffer, I'm sorry, that is all vegetated all the way
down.
MR. HERMANN: It is, and it's really all on a slope all to
remain undisturbed and seaward of the hay bale line.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I remember now.
MR. HERMANN: Yes, it's a nice site and they are keeping the
house -- it sort of sprawls across the lot a little bit, but
that's to keep the elevation a little lower, kind of tucks
the house in behind the vegetation from the water.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Nice set of stairs and ramp and
everything. If there are no other comments, I'll make a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'll make a motion to approve
En-Consultants on behalf of Catherine and Richard Reinken to
request a Wetland Permit to demolish the existing one-story,
one-family dwelling and construct partially over the same
foundation wall new one one-half story, one-family dwelling
with attached garage and remove two existing sanitary
systems, construct beyond Chapter 97 jurisdiction new
sanitary system, reconfigure existing public water service
line, install drainage system with dry wells and extend
existing driveway beyond Chapter 97 jurisdiction. With the
hay bales and silt screen as indicated and keeping the
buffer that is the natural buffer that is already there, and
to make sure there are gutters and down spouts and dry
wells. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: All in favor? ALL AYES
16. B. Laing Associates on behalf of JOHN MULHOLLAND
requests a Wetland Permit to maintenance dredge 50 cubic
yards to maintain navigable water depth. Dredge spoil will
be placed on Mulholland property behind the bulkhead and the
Carlucci property, SCTM#57-2-9, north of Island View Lane,
across the street.
Located: 725 Island View Lane, Southold. SCTM#57-2-24
17. B. Laing Associates on behalf of VIRGINIA BONT JE
Board of Trustees
59
February 15, 2006
requests a Wetland Permit to maintenance dredge 50 cubic
yards to maintain navigable water depth. Dredge spoil will
be placed on Carlucci property across the street,
SCTM#57-2-9, north of Island View Lane. Located: 802
Island View Lane, Southold. SCTM#57-2-23
18. B. Laing Associates on behalf of MICHAEL CARLUCCI
requests a Wetland Permit to maintenance dredge 50 cubic
yards to maintain navigable water depth. Dredge spoil will
be placed on Carlucci property across the street,
SCTM#57-2-9, north of Island View Lane, with the exception
of three to five cubic yards placed directly behind the
bulkhead on Baldwin. Located: 865 Island View Lane,
Southold. SCTM#57-2-22
19. B. Laing Associates on behalf of GEORGE BALDWIN
requests a Wetland Permit to maintenance dredge 50 cubic
yards to maintain navigable water depth. Dredge spoil will
be placed on Carlucci property across the street,
SCTM#57-2-9, north of Island View Lane.
Located: 1045 Island View Lane, Southold. SCTM#57-2-21
TRUSTEE KING: Number 16, 17, 18 and 19 are all this
dredging, this common dredging in this area. The problem we
had is we asked the locations of the dredge spoils be staked
so we could look at it and we couldn't find any stakes
indicating where the dredge spoils are going to go.
MR. BONT JE: Mike Bontje from B. Laing Associates
representing the four applications in question.
The two notices, there was one property owner to the
north where the dredge spoil location was to be, that had to
be notified that turned out to be a Randall Road LLC, and
also we had not received back one of the green cards on the
prior one from Mr. Mulholland, as he was notified as a
result of the Bontjes being a neighbor. I just wanted to
hand in that. The second item was with regard to posting, I
think that's been taken care of also, all the posting was
properly done. The third was as a result of the discussions
with Mr. Torpe, and his original concerns with regard to the
dredge spoil.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Who is Mr. Torpe?
MR. BONT JE: Mr. Torpe is the neighbor of Mr. Mulholland
immediately to the east. And what happened was in
discussion between them, they resolved to remove any dredge
spoil disposal from Mr. Mulholland's property. So the
dredge spoil will now go across the street. Mr. Carlucci
has two pieces of property, one fronts on the waterfront,
_.__,"._'.___..,.,._... ._,,_......~.._..,,__..'"_..~~_____,.____..______.__ '"'___,_"O'_~~__'___~"_'~~'_"
Board of Trustees
60
February 15, 2006
the other is on the north side of Island View Lane, and I
believe he placed some stakes there or placed a stake there.
I spoke to him the day after or the evening of our last
permit application and he was going to place some stakes in
that location.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That's across the street away from the
water, we saw that area.
MR. BONT JE: The only other place where there was a
possibility of putting some of the dredge spoil was behind
Mr. Baldwin's bulkhead, but that would be immediately
behind, and that bulkhead is pretty well established
there. That ground has dropped nine inches or a foot. So
he was thinking of maybe putting some material there; you're
talking maybe three yards of material. So basically other
than that one item on Baldwin's property, all of the dredge
spoil would now go across the street on Mr. Carlucci's
property north of Island View Lane. And I believe you did
have a chance to see that the last time.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is that where we wanted it staked?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Remember they had a little thing around
it, and we said that's where it had been before almost?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I wasn't on that one.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It was the two areas on the houses that
weren't staked and now he's retracting those.
TRUSTEE KING: I would prefer to keep the dredge spoils out
of our jurisdiction.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Where are you at with the DEC as far as
the dredge spoil site?
MR. BONT JE: At the moment we have an application in, a
complete application. We have not heard.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So you're just redoing it to put all the
dredge spoil across the street?
MR. BONT JE: Yes. With the exception of Baldwin, and again,
that goes right behind the bulkhead and talking three yards
of material to fill in the nine inch drop that's occurred
over the years.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We want a couple of inches --
(Discussion.)
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The one suggestion I had on this project is
that there be a turbidity screen put out towards the creek
end of the dredging project to help prevent silt from moving
out into the creek, if that's possible.
MR. BONT JE: We had a thought on that, when we did it the
last time, when it was done in 1996, I have some pictures
here, it was begun on a particularly low tide, and that
Board of Trustees
61
February 15, 2006
actually worked out pretty well. And I have some pictures I
can show you because what happens then is it confines the
material to the hole itself.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Into the basin rather than going into the
creek?
MR. BONT JE: Yes. What we did was we took the Elier file,
but what it did was provide for a basin to work from, and it
worked out pretty well, and we really had no sedimentation
problems whatsoever and the stuff came up drier too.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Can we keep one for our files? MR.
BONT JE: Sure.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: What is the tax map number for the record?
MR. BONT JE: Of the property across the street?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes. Sorry to put you on the spot, but I
figured it would make it clear.
TRUSTEE KING: CAC recommended approval with the condition
fill is placed in an appropriate area and proof that the
area has been dredged in the past.
MR. BONT JE: 02-22-22 is the one on the water side. And it
looks like 02-9.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So the dredge spoil will be put on 57-2-9?
MR. BONT JE: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: Any other comments? Make a motion to close
the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with the changes that have been made for the dredge spoil.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Numbers 17, 18 and 19, is there anyone
here to on behalf of these applications?
MR. BONT JE: Mike Bontje, from B. Laing Associates.
TRUSTEE KING: I think we covered everything.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Any other comments? Any comments from the
Board?
TRUSTEE KING: I think we got it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I make a motion to close these three
hearings.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I make a motion to approve the following
applications as previously stated B. Laing Associates on
behalf of Virginia Bontje to dredge 50 cubic yards. B.
Laing Associates on behalf of Michael Carlucci, to dredge 50
cubic yards. B. Laing Associates on behalf of George
Board of Trustees
62
February 15, 2006
Baldwin to dredge 50 cubic yards. All spoil shall be put on
Carlucci property, 57-2-9, with the exception of three to
five cubic yards behind Baldwin bulkhead.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Include turbidity screen.
MR. BONT JE: Or to do the dredging at low tide?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: It will have the same effect.
MR. BONT JE: Right.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And by the way, I don't know if we
mentioned it, all of these applications are consistent with
LWRP, and I believe the CAC recommended approval with the
condition that the fill be placed -- and you've already
answered that question. Everything is consistent.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
20. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on
behalf of EDWARD FERGUS requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a single-family dwelling, covered porch, attached
deck, attached garages, sanitary system, and shed. Located:
1854 North Bayview Road, Southold. SCTM#70-12-39.3
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone here to comment on this
application?
MR. ANDERSON: Good evening, Bruce Anderson, Suffolk
Environmental Consulting for the applicant, the Ferguses.
We submitted a plan to you, as you know, we met in
the field last Wednesday. I think we have a consensus on
what we're doing here. As I understand, it would be a 50
foot buffer. You had asked us to relocate the shed further
landward, it was previously at 75 feet. We sent it back to
100, then we were made aware that we don't have the
orientation right. So the site plan in front of you, I
turned it 90 degrees so it would be 95 feet, so I would ask
that you approve that, and I think beyond that, there's
really not much left to discuss in this application.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is there anybody else wishing to speak?
The action was found inconsistent with by the Planning
Board, basic consideration is that it's 77 feet from the
water, and they want you to have gutters, down spouts, et
cetera, that has all been covered. So there's no
inconsistency. Planning Board office, LWRP. The LWRP comes
out of the Planning Board office. So they found it
inconsistent, but the inconsistency comes from being 77 feet
from the water. The book says 100, so they find it
inconsistent.
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
MR. ANDERSON: The book says 100, so every permit is
inconsistent?
Board of Trustees 64
February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Right.
TRUSTEE KING: In the code it says we're supposed to keep
houses 100.
MR. ANDERSON: 100 feet is the jurisdiction, isn't it?
TRUSTEE KING: It's the setback. So as soon as we get
inside that. I just had one question, Bruce, on the little
shed, is that parallel to the garage now?
MR. ANDERSON: No, it's turned so it runs east-west.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Goes left-right.
MR. ANDERSON: I'll give you a correct --
TRUSTEE KING: It's perpendicular to the garage?
MR. ANDERSON: This way, not this way.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Are there any other questions? I make a
motion that we close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I also make a motion to approve the
application of Edward Fergus for a construction of a
single-family dwelling, covered porch, attached deck,
attached garage, sanitary system, and shed. With all the
usual conditions.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: All in favor?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: With all the usual conditions
of --
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Yes, hay bales, that's all coded. The
following minimum setback apply to any and all operations,
residents minimum setback. The code is written that
way. That's why it's the same as being in our jurisdiction,
but the way it's written in the book is that the residents
should have 100 foot setback from the water. Should be out
of our jurisdiction. That's the way the book is written. I
understand that's not the way it's functioned forever, but
that's the way it's written.
MR. JOHNSTON: But as you know, number 2 says, "The Board of
Trustees reserves the right to waive or alter the setback
where site specific or environmental conditions justify such
actions." That's your problem to prove that.
21. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on
behalf of CARLA STARCIC requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a single-family dwelling and deck. Located: 205
Private Road 3, Southold. SCTM#70-6-9
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Is there anybody here to speak on behalf of
this application?
MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson, Suffolk environmental
Board of Trustees
65
February 15, 2006
Consulting for the applicant, Starcic.
We provided you with a site plan and in that site
plan we took off the front deck thereby creating a setback
of 75 feet. You have that in your records. That was done
in response to our meeting out in the field. I also have a
piece of correspondence; I'm going to put it in for your own
information, and that is because I heard that the northerly
portion is a beach and the remainder is a bluff, and the
fact of the matter is the northerly portion is not a beach
and the remainder of the property is not a bluff, and we
provided you with the technical information that I think
substantiates that. And that was done basically by looking
at your soil survey, Suffolk County soil survey that
distinguishes the soils that are predominant on the site
from that which is called a beach, also the bluff, which is
defined as an escarpment, deals with unstable slopes of 35
percent or more, that also is not existing on the site and
also the definition in your Coastal Erosion Hazard law. But
I think it's just a question of reasonableness, and I think
it's a small house. We can't obviously move it back any
further and the conditions are what they are.
Hopefully, I addressed everything that has come up
in this application, I don't believe I have anything further
to say on it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Is there anybody else who would like to
speak pertaining to this application? MR. HARDY: I'm
Charles Hardy. I'm an adjacent landowner and I'm
representing all the adjacent landowners plus those in the
immediate neighborhood; and this is the third time that this
application has come before the Trustees and it seems to be
somewhat troubled.
Although Mr. Anderson has claimed that this is not a
beach, and while I'm not privy to the information that he
submitted to you, it seems that what we're asking for is
that the applicant and the Trustees comply with Chapter 97,
and the definition of a beach, I brought it with me, is that
it's subject to seasonal or frequent flooding.
This area is composed of unconsolidated, loose
and/or coarse sand. There is no vegetation, and that's the
result of two factors, one is vehicle traffic, which
disturbs and compacts the soil, although in this case, since
the Saffas, who are at the dead end of this private road on
the lower or seaward end of this property have not
frequented their home this past summer, and the only other
users are the Giacolas who live adjacent there. So there's
another factor then, compression or disturbance by vehicle
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
traffic, and that is salt inundation of the soil, salt build
up. You have then a wide expanse of coarse sand.
So we have sensed the reluctance of the Trustees to
describe this as a beach, and that has important factors for
setback. It's not our fault that this lot is so small, but
up to 20 or 25 percent of this lot is flooded, and I am
going to ask you why, if you consider it a beach or do not
consider it a beach. But before I ask you that, let me give
you -- we have bombarded you with frequent instances of
flooding and here are some more, taken just a couple of days
ago. And here is a log that drifted in on their property
and here is a neighbor, Pat Bergley paddling merrily, and
here is a picture that we measured two to three days ago, 11
to 12 inches.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: In your view, what is the difference if
it's a beach and if it's not; does it say in the code that
there's different setback?
MR. HARDY: Yes. Because the landward extension of the
flooding stops when there is a physiographic change. In
that change, I think David Bergen mentioned that he didn't
like my description as a bluff, and I agree with him, it's
really not a bluff, but it's a bank. And while a bank is
not exactly described in the Chapter 97, a bank is suggested
by the definition of physiographic change, and you can see
there I am standing in water that's 11 to 12 inches deep and
it's right at the edge of the bank where there's a
physiographic change. So I would like to ask you why you
think that this would not merit consideration as a beach
under Chapter 97?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: My thing is what is the setback difference
if it's a beach or not a beach; is there a difference?
MR. HARDY: It then becomes 100 feet from the bank, from the
edge of the bank. It's not our fault that this property is
so small. Some properties may not be developed. What we're
at now at the density and the value of the land, the parcels
that were never built on before now become exceedingly
valuable and they haven't be built upon.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KING: Any other comments?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'm sorry, are there any other comments
from the audience?
MR. HARDY: Actually, I would just like to ask you why you
would not consider this a beach according to the definition
of Chapter 97?
TRUSTEE KING: This is an extreme high tide, and in a
nor'easter, my yard floods. Same thing, I had almost a foot
Board of Trustees
67
February 15, 2006
of water in my yard, I don't consider my yard a beach.
MR. HARDY: I have also considered other characteristics
that would merit it being considered a beach. But we have
now submitted to you four instances since September.
TRUSTEE KING: Your interpretation and our interpretation
are different.
MR. HARDY: But you still have not given me why it does not
meet the definition in Chapter 97. That does not answer my
question, really.
TRUSTEE KING: I can't answer it. I don't
want this to turn into a debate.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It's still a buildable lot.
MR. HARDY: So you refuse then to indicate why it meets or
does not meet the definition of a beach under Chapter 977
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I would just respond to close this part of
the comments, that I would agree with Mr. Anderson's
description here to include from that perspective, there are
many areas, just as Mr. King stated, in the town of Southold
that flood on occasion during nor'easters and high tides,
Skunk Lane floods, Grathwohl Road floods and their front
yards to me are not beaches. And we're not going to get
into a debate.
MR. HARDY: The description says seasonal flooding. You're
treating Chapter 97 as a joke.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The CAC recommends approval with the
following conditions: No fertilized lawn areas, all roof
runoff must be contained to dry wells on the landward side
of the road. All property drains contained on site, and
save as many eight inch trees as possible. LWRP was
inconsistent for the following reasons: 1. It's within 75
feet of the wetlands when they would like 100. We've
already addressed that. They also want gutters and down
spouts. We've addressed. They're asking for erosion and
sediment controls, hay bales and silt fencing during
construction to protect the wetlands system and require
native disease resistant, draught tolerant landscaping to
minimize irrigation fertilizer applications. I have a
letter from William Lohn stating that as agreed to that
they're willing to remove the proposed stairs on the
northern side of the proposed dwelling, remove the proposed
driveway providing access to the 16 foot right of way
located in the northern section of the parcel. I believe
this is what was agreed upon in the field inspection.
TRUSTEE KING: I lost that last one, the driveway?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Removal of the proposed driveway providing
access to the 16 foot right of way located in the northern
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February 15, 2006
section --
MR. ANDERSON: The driveway would come from the south.
TRUSTEE KING: Off the upper right of way so there's no
driveway going down below?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Correct.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't know what else they can do.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Any other comments from the Board?
TRUSTEE KING: I think it's been beat to death enough.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I don't know. I don't know what your
motion's going to be, but I didn't see Bruce's comments, and
I want to read them and
see -- I don't know if you want to take the time to do it
now or do you want to close --
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Which?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Let me just continue. Do we just want
to close the hearing, everybody can get a look at that
letter, compare it to what we heard tonight, compare the
two, and we'll vote it on it, but we can close the hearing,
it's over, it's now our decision to make; that's just an
observation.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: Yes, I agree.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Make a motion to close the public
hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to reserve decision on
this.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: When you say reserve decision?
TRUSTEE KING: We'll make a decision after we take a look at
this and decide.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It's closed.
MR. ANDERSON: I have no objection to close the hearing and
reserve the decision for a month.
24. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of RICHARD
R. PRIETO, JR. requests a Wetland Permit to remove 113'
plus/minus of existing wood-sheathed bulkhead and 35'
plus/minus of concrete/stone/wood return/retaining wall and
replace in same location with the same structures using
vinyl sheathing. Rebuild existing fixed walkway making it
2' plus/minus longer on the seaward end, and replace
existing ramp with a ramp 2' plus/minus shorter. The
location of the existing 6' by 20' float will be unchanged;
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February 15, 2006
the location of the two existing two pile dolphins will be
unchanged; the overall length of the dock will be
unchanged. Rebuild existing 4' by 4' cantilevered platform
in the same location. Located: 2650 Minnehaha Boulevard,
Southold. SCTM#87 -3-45.1 and 46.
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to comment on this
application?
MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, Jim Fitzgerald, for
Dr. Prieto. I think it's pretty straightforward. The
bulkhead replacement is a straightforward project and the
reconstruction of the dock is within the existing footage.
We're just going to make the walkway a little longer, and
the ramp a little bit shorter, as you just read. The float
stays in the same position and it's no further from the
bulkhead than it is now.
TRUSTEE KING: It's exempt from the LWRP. CAC recommended
approval on the application with the condition of a 10 foot
nonturf buffer. I think we suggested a 15 foot nonturf
buffer, yes, we did. And other than that, I don't think
anybody had a problem, did we?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: No, I don't think, I'm trying to remember
exactly.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: They came outside with us, remember the
little platform on the side.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I had a question, when I met with Dr.
Prieto, he wasn't sure if he needed that 4' by 4'
cantilevered platform; so are you sure he still wants that?
MR. FITZGERALD: Yes.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Okay, because when I met with him he wasn't
sure that he really wanted it, okay.
TRUSTEE KING: It seemed pretty easy. Any other comments on
this application? Any Board comments? I'll make a motion
to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with a 15 foot nonturf buffer behind the bulkhead.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
25. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf DON
JAYAMAHA requests a Wetland Permit to construct a fixed open
walkway, 4' by 90' with decking and a minimum of 3.5' above
grade, hinged ramp 4' by 16', and floating dock, 6' by 20';
install two piles to secure floating dock. Located: 243
Maiden Lane, Mattituck. SCTM#140-1-8
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February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE KING: The Board wanted to see the end of the float
staked, where the float's going to be, the float's going to
be 90 feet out.
MR. FITZGERALD: Okay, it's not 90 feet out, Jim, you see
it's at an angle there, that's part of the problem because
of the angle of the property line. The dock is shorter.
TRUSTEE KING: We want to see that staked so we get an
idea.
MR. FITZGERALD: I understand. It's closer to the shore
than the Long Island Oyster to the west.
TRUSTEE KING: That's still in the works. We're being sued
over that or we're being sued, so that's irrelevant.
MR. FITZGERALD: And it's less than a third of the way
across the waterway.
TRUSTEE KING: Like I say, we want to see it staked at that
90' mark. I have a question, on the survey it says chain
link fence along the original high water mark; I've got a
feeling that there's a lot of land there that doesn't belong
to them.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: There's a chain link fence and almost a
little wall.
TRUSTEE KING: I think that was the original shoreline years
ago before they dredged the creek. This has happened in
Mattituck Creek quite a bit, who owns title to this section,
to this piece, (indicating)?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: This is a brand new survey.
TRUSTEE KING: I'd like to see a deed description, because
this is an ongoing problem in Mattituck Creek. I'd like to
see a deed description with the meets and bounds to see
this.
MR. FITZGERALD: Suppose it isn't his.
TRUSTEE KING: Well then, we've got to talk about who owns
it. It's something in Mattituck that I think we really need
to address. Just get a deed. So that's what I'd like to
see, a copy of deed and put a stake in the water where the
float's going to be.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: The outer edge of it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I have a question on this one; given a
length of 90 plus 16 for the ramp plus 6 for the float,
that's 112 feet out. My concern is the proximity to the
docks of Mat-A-Mar and would that create a hazard to
navigation to those boats getting in and out? I'm just
saying that's my concern.
TRUSTEE KING: I think there's concerns across the creek
from Mat-A-Mar.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Okay.
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February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: The LWRP's consistent.
TRUSTEE KING: Yes, generally consistent with the
policies.
MR. FITZGERALD: Good. Really, and I'll have to save
that.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to table the application.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor in ALL AYES.
26. Boulevard Planning East on behalf of DON & MARY
JO MURPHY requests a Wetland Permit to construct additions
and alterations to the existing dwelling. Located: 9905
Nassau Point Road, Cutchogue. SCTM#119-1-9.1
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Is there anyone here who would like to
speak on this application?
MR. LENHERT: Rob Lenhert for Boulevard Planning East on
behalf of the Murphys.
The application we have in front of us, we're doing
additions and alterations to a one-story house. The
majority of the new construction is going to take place
landward of the existing structure. The house, if you look
at the site plan is basically a "T". We're taking off the
point of the "T" and replacing that, that's the proposal.
There's also a small 48 square foot addition towards
the east side, the water side of the house, but it's going
to remain at the same level as the existing house. It's not
going to go farther than what's there, and that's the
majority of the Murphys' application.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Any other comments from anybody in the
audience?
MR. HOELZL: Yes. My name is Carl Hoelzl, I'm the adjacent
landowner there, and looking at the plot plan, the property
seems to have grown by about approximately 20 feet, that's
one of my problems there. The side line that's adjacent,
that's one between us both, there seems to be an error there
as to the heading. I have a survey that's mine, and I have
a survey from the previous owners, back in the '90s, which
shows the house to be exactly 15 feet on the offset. If you
take the headings off there, the error gets larger as you
get down to the water's edge. So there's a problem with the
way they have the headings off there, the offset, and
there's a problem with the length they have there, 355.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Could I see your survey?
MR. HOELZL: This is my survey and this is the survey that
was done in '95. He shows the common line running about
335, 336, their plan shows it being 355, 20 feet longer.
Board of Trustees
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February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE BERGEN: You're at 408, and theirs is 335. I take
it yours is the property here on that side to the north?
MR. HOELZL: Yes. And there's a discrepancy there of
approximately 20 feet, and the other discrepancy then is the
angle they're coming off at, but the heading here is a
different heading than what I see.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: This is the one that's in the file.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: This is the one that's in the file.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: 78-42.
MR. HOELZL: That's right. There's a difference there, and
the survey from the Hurleys shows the house to be exactly on
the 15 foot offset. As you take that offset further down,
naturally the area gets larger, go towards the water.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: But these two are the same.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: What you're saying is the setback from the
house to the sideline --
MR. HOELZL: Is incorrect.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: We're looking to the north
side --
MR. HOELZL: The north side, also on the landings as you go
down that also gets --
TRUSTEE BERGEN: -- Let me finish. On his he's showing an
offset from the house 15.65 or 8-5 feet and you're showing
20 feet.
MR. HOELZL: No. I'm showing an offset on the house here,
that's the Hurley, they're showing the offset being right on
the line, there's no plus.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Just to interrupt for a second. The
Hurley says 78-42?
MR. HOELZL: No, this is the property I own here. On this
side it's 78-42 on this side it's 78-48, on the survey. And
here's the 78 --
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Those lines are parallel?
MR. HOELZL: Not exactly, they're close but they aren't.
They're not exactly the same.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So you think they just copied the wrong
-- can you see what happened? This is 78-42-10. This is
78-42-10. This is his furthest mark. I just wonder if it
got transposed by --
TRUSTEE BERGEN: What is the date on this survey?
MR. HOELZL: 1955.
MR. LENHERT: I have to go by what I have is the latest one
that I have, 2001.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: As I understand it, the addition is being
done for this is within the scope of the current building
that's there.
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February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So we're not putting an addition
encroaching into that area that's in dispute.
MR. HOELZL: I wanted to get this out in the open now.
They're showing the length of property here being 355 feet,
okay, and it's both these surveys showing it being 335
feet.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think what it's saying is it doesn't
impact us at all. It's a legal thing, but it's not our
issue. It's not going to change the sideline.
MR. HOELZL: No, it's not going to change the sideline.
(Discussion.)
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: This survey you have is 335. MR.
HOELZL: But this is 355.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: But it's a misprint. This was in our
file too.
MR. HOELZL: I just had one other question, I have a well on
the property, and the way they're doing it, they're going to
put in three and a half bathrooms there, probably going to
have to put in a new sounding.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: That's determined by the Health
Department.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Health Department.
MR. HOELZL: The sanitary system comes within 100 feet of
the water line?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: They would have to come back for an
amendment. I'm sure he knows to try to keep it beyond the
100 feet and for some reason if he can't because of your
well or whatever, then he would have to come back for an
amendment.
MR. HOELZL: Thank you.
MS. CUSACK: Jill, I have a couple of things that Peggy --
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'm going to bring them up. I have
them. First off, as far as the CAC goes, they recommend
approval. With regards to the LWRP, it was listed as
inconsistent. The reasons for that, one that it's within
100 feet, which we have already addressed. They asked for
erosion and sediment controls, hay bales and silt fencing;
so we're asking for staked hay bales and for you to submit
the plans showing staked hay bales and silt fencing to
protect the system. Require native decease resistant,
draught tolerant landscaping, landscaping to minimize
irrigation, fertilizer applications and the standard
required gutters, down spouts and dry wells to control storm
water runoff; any objections to any of those?
MR. LENHERT: No objections at all.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The only thing we asked for is the septic
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February 15, 2006
system on the survey here, I have a question mark.
MR. LENHERT: I don't believe the septic system's on the
survey.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: You're tying into city water?
MR. LENHERT: Yes.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Where is the current septic?
MR. LENHERT: The current septic system is off the side.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So it's well beyond the 100 feet?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So show that on the revised plan also. And
given the fact that there's a brick patio in front, between
the brick patio difference and the bluff, we would like a
natural buffer there.
MR. LENHERT: Uh-huh.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Are there any other comments from the
Board? Then I make a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Abstain.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Aye.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Aye.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'll make a motion to approve Boulevard
Planning East on behalf of Don and Mary Jo Murphy to request
a Wetland Permit to construct additions and alterations to
existing dwelling, located 2950 Nassau Point Road, subject
to a plan being submitted that will show the staked hay
bales and the location of septic system and in agreement to
the gutters, down spouts and a silt fencing also along with
those hay bales.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And the planting by the brick patio?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: And the buffer from the brick patio.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: All in favor?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Abstain.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Aye.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Aye.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I abstained. I should have recused myself
from the vote.
MR. JOHNSTON: Lauren will supply you with the form to
document your recusal in the future.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Go back to the Murphy one. Strike the
motion previously made by Dave, and I make a new motion to
approve Don and Mary Jo Murphy.
MR. JOHNSTON: You have to reopen the hearing, close the
hearing and then make the motion.
Board of Trustees 75
February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Make a motion to open the hearing for
Boulevard Planning East on behalf of Don and Mary Joe
Murphy. Let the record show that Boulevard East is here
representing Don and Mary Jo Murphy, and I make a motion to
close the hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? Aye.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Aye.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Recuse.
MR. JOHNSTON: Let the record show that David recused
himself.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I make a motion that we approve the
application of Don and Mary Jo Murphy for a Wetland Permit
to construct additions and alterations to existing dwelling
located 9905 Nassau Point Road, Cutchogue Subject to a new
plan showing a staked row of hay bales, gutters, leaders
into dry wells, a buffer by the brick patio, and showing the
septic system on the plan. And I think that covers it.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? Aye.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Recuse.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Aye.
27. Boulevard Planning East on behalf of JIM &
SUSAN SWEENEY requests a Wetland Permit to construct a
second floor addition with covered porch to the existing
single-family dwelling. Located: 2950 Minnehaha Boulevard,
Southold. SCTM#87-3-42
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Is there anybody here to speak on behalf of
this?
MR. LENHERT: Rob Lenhert for Boulevard Planning for Jim and
Susan Sweeney.
In this proposal, we're proposing to construct
second-story addition over an existing one-story
residence. What we're looking to do, we're putting a second
story living space on. The existing one-story residence is
1,384 square feet. The second story enclosed habitable
space, we're looking to put on as 903 square feet. Above
one of the screen porches, we're proposing to put 125 foot
covered porch, and also on the second story, we are
proposing an open porch of 147 square feet again, over the
existing screen porch. No one of the additions we're
proposing are going to extend past the lines of the existing
house.
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February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So far the same as the previous permit,
the hay bales, dry wells, gutters, where is the current
septic on this property?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: How many bedrooms are you going to --
MR. LENHERT: Three bedrooms, two baths.
TRUSTEE KING: Do you know how long the Sweeneys have owned
this property?
MR. LENHERT: Very recently, about three years.
TRUSTEE KING: That's what I thought.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Who was the previous owner?
MR. LENHERT: I don't know.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It's exempt from LWRP. The CAC approved
with the condition recommend a 10 foot nonturf buffer
landward of the retaining wall. We would like to see a 15
foot nontu rf buffer.
TRUSTEE KING: The reason is it's a vinyl bulkhead and we've
only been working with the vinyl for the last few years, and
I can't remember putting in a vinyl bulkhead without a
buffer being requested, and there's no buffer there. So I
don't know if the original owners didn't comply with the
original permit or if we forgot to put the buffer in, I
don't know, I'm not sure.
MR. LENHERT: Does is that mean the new owners have to cut
up all the grass?
TRUSTEE KING: We can have that 15 foot nonturf buffer put
in now you're doing modifications to the house, yes.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes, we'd like to see that.
TRUSTEE KING: And they can put gravel, they can put natural
plantings there, just something that doesn't require
fertilization.
MR. LENHERT: Just remove the grass.
TRUSTEE KING: That was my only concern.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Are there any other comments from the
Board? Any other comments from anybody? I make a motion we
close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I make a motion that we approve the
application of Boulevard Planning East on behalf of Jim and
Susan Sweeney for a request of the Wetland Permit to a
second floor addition with covered porch to the existing
single-family dwelling, with the condition that we have hay
bales during construction, gutters leading into dry wells
and a 15 foot buffer behind the existing bulkhead.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor? Aye.
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February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Aye.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Note that I recuse myself.
28. Interscience Research Association, Inc. on
behalf of PARADISE POINT ASSOCIATION, INC. requests a
Wetland Permit to maintenance dredge two areas within the
basin and inlet. The inlet area being 50' by 130' and the
Basin area 50' by 100'. Both areas to be dredged to a
maximum depth of 4' below apparent low water. A maximum of
1,000 cubic yards of material combined may be removed from
the two areas in any calendar year. Located: Basin Road,
Southold. SCTM#81-1-16.1 and 16.7
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone who would like to speak
on this issue?
MR. WALKER: Jim Walker, I'm pleased to report that the
association agrees with the brief conference that we had at
the work session, and they will repair the west jetty prior
to doing any maintenance dredging.
MR. JOHNSTON: Who is the "we"?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Paradise Point.
MR. WALKER: Paradise Point Association will agree to
replace the west jetty, the box jetty prior to doing any
maintenance dredging. And we would like to submit a spoil
plan, which shows spoil to the west jetty box, to the east
jetty box to the extent that it may ever be needed and to
the spoil site that Cathy Mesiano got for the Zupas that is
just east of the east jetty on the beach. And also would
like to report that Paradise Point Association sent their
lawyer home. They don't have any opposition to the
emergency permit resolution that you have later on on your
agenda.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So you have withdrawn that is what
you're saying?
MR. WALKER: I don't think they have formally opposed it
period. Want to be as cooperative with the Board as
possible.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We appreciate that.
MR. WALKER: We would ask for a maintenance dredging permit
with spoil to the west jetty box, the east jetty box and to
the spoil site designated by the Zupas on the beach to the
east jetty, which is where all the material should go for
any material that's not needed in the jetty boxes. We would
submit that spoil plan to you as a follow-up.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Table this?
TRUSTEE KING: What kind of time frame are we looking at?
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February 15, 2006
MR. WALKER: To do the maintenance dredging and to replace
the west jetty box prior to June 1 sl. It's the close of the
dredging window. The jetty box would have to be repaired
before the maintenance dredging.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And your contractor is able to repair the
jetty in that time?
MR. WALKER: Yes. And they're putting together the money to
do the work, west jetty box then maintenance dredge.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The question I think is you're putting
spoil on somebody else's land, though; am I correct?
MR. WALKER: The Town of Southold's land.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So there's nothing in the Zupa's spoil
area?
MR. WALKER: It's below the high water line. The answer to
that is, yes, but the practical matter is DEC has given
approval to them for that as a spoil site, so we should be
able to --
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: My question was I wasn't positive
exactly where the spoil area was, and if it was on their
property, we'd have to get permission.
MR. WALKER: From high water to low water east of the east
jetty, where it should go.
MR. JOHNSTON: And the "them" is who?
MR. WALKER: The Zupas.
MR. JOHNSTON: I want the record to be clear.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Other questions? Any comments from the
audience?
MS. MESIANO: Catherine Mesiano on behalf of the Zupas, just
to back up what Mr. Walker said, we have agreed with
Mr. Walker that it's my understanding that the association,
Paradise Point Association, will not contest the Zupa's
request for their emergency dredge permit for this immediate
season. And that their maintenance dredge permit they're
seeking would be conditioned upon their repair of the
existing jetty, the damaged jetty, I think we refer to it as
the west jetty. That the operations in association with
that activity be conducted from Tax Map Lot #16.11, which is
the property that is owned and owned in fee title by the
Paradise Point Association.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Okay, just so I can write this and say
it in the three spoil areas, west jetty box, east jetty box,
and the beach to the east of the east jetty box. Thank
you.
Does the Board have any questions? I make a motion
to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
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79
February 15, 2006
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion, and I ask everybody
to listen carefully so we don't make any mistakes here, I'm
recommending a permit to maintenance dredge two areas within
the basin and inlet, the inlet area being 50' by 100' --
130', the basin area 50' by 100. Both areas are to be
dredged to maximum depth of 4' below apparent low water, a
maximum of 1,000 cubic yards of material combined may be
removed from the two areas in anyone calendar year. Also,
the association will repair the west jetty before the work
begins. The access to do the work dredging will be on
16.11, the west jetty box will be used, east jetty box will
be used, and the beach to the east of the east jetty box
will be used as spoil areas. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: What about cost of the dredge spoils? It's
Trustee bottom.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I would presume that the applicant pays
that. Do you understand the question he just brought up?
TRUSTEE KING: It's Trustee bottom.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The Trustees own the bottom and there's
a $10 per cubic yard fee for taking our sand and using it,
that's been in the code forever. Okay. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: All in favor? ALL AYES.
MR. JOHNSTON: Did he agree to that?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: We heard it.
MR. JOHNSTON: Did you agree to it?
MR. WALKER: I don't think--
MR. JOHNSTON: Did you agree to it?
MR. WALKER: I don't think I had much of a choice.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Normally if it's trucked off site, how do
we get the cubic yards?
TRUSTEE KING: If the area's 20' by 40', you can figure out
the cubic yards.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to go back to the regular
meeting.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: We've got two emergency bulkhead permits here
that we discussed. If there's no question they're
emergencies. So what do we do, we just pass a resolution?
MS. MESIANO: These are my two matters, I am tempted to
narrate them.
TRUSTEE KING: It's a temporary emergency action to protect
house, which maintaining setbacks plus/minus 30 feet from
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80
February 15, 2006
the permitted bulkhead, bulkhead has suffered a complete
failure. The proposal is placement of three ton rock armor
along a previously existing bulkhead for a distance of
approximately 50 feet for the purpose of diffusing wave
energy. The foundation of the house is exposed and awaiting
engineer's report for final remediation.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: You're going to change that at some
point. So I think a temporary solution --
MS. MESIANO: It's a temporary band aid to try to preserve
the house.
TRUSTEE KING: How long do you think before we get something
permanent?
MS. MESIANO: I'm going to try to have an application to
you for the March hearing. We have the engineer coming in
tomorrow and that's really what we're waiting for.
TRUSTEE KING: So if we make this good for 90 days or six
months, would that be okay?
MS. MESIANO: Yes. We need to solve it before then because
we're very, very perilous.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make it for a six month emergency
permit.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Can I just ask the question I asked
earlier, are you just going to do the same thing with this?
You had talked about something about rebuilding the bulkhead
temporarily out of wood and out of the pieces that you were
salvaging.
MS. MESIANO: We're talking about the other matter Gobenin
now?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Yes.
MS. MESIANO: The immediate band aid, if you will, would be
to just try to upright that piece that's laying over that
20' section, fortify it with the rock armor, just to
stablize what's there, but the contractor felt strongly that
the vinyl would not be a good choice in that location
because it was prone to so much battering. He just doesn't
feel it has the integrity to withstand that. Since it is
only a 20 foot section, he was hoping that we would be able
to get the Board to agree to replacing in-kind/in-place that
failed section.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: But you're not asking for that now?
MS. MS. MESIANO: I am. I think I wrote that.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That's what I was unclear about.
MS. MESIANO: Because we pretty much understand and know
what our situation is on that property, because we don't
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81
February 15, 2006
have the waves crashing at the foundation and so on.
TRUSTEE KING: Okay. So in the matter of Joanne Bouvia, a
temporary emergency repair for approximately 20 feet of
failed bulkhead, three ton rock armor toe of functional
bulkhead approximately 30 feet, straighten and secure the
failed portion as practical and continue rock armor. A
permanent repair would be in-place replacement of
approximately 20 feet of failed bulkhead. With a 16 by 10"
piles add six 16 by 1 0" batter piles to remain a functional
bulkhead. Open storage area landward of new bulkhead with
approximately 1 ,000 cubic yards
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: The second part of that it's not
temporary.
TRUSTEE KING: Let's get the emergency repair of
approximately 20 feet of failed bulkhead with the stone, and
then I would come in for an application for a permanent
bulkhead. So, I'll make a motion to approve the 50 section
as an emergency repair.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.