HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-06/10/1965SOUTHOLD~ L, I.,
Telephone SO 5 2660
APPEAL BOARD
MEMBERS
Robert W. Gi]lispi¢, Jr., Chairman
Robert Bergen
Charles Gregonis, Jr.
Serge Doyen, Jr.
Fred Hulse, Jr~
M I N U T E S
SOUTHOLD'TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
June 15~ 1965
A regular meeting of the~Southold Town Board of Appeals
was held at 7:30 PjM.'~ Thursday, June 10, 1965, at the Town
Office, Main Road~ Southold~ New York.
There were present: Messrs: Robert-W. Gillispie~ Jr.~ Chairman,
Robert Bergen~ Fred Hulse~ Jr.~ Serge Doyen~ Jr.
Absent: Mr. Charles Grigonis~ Jr.
PUBLIC B~.ARING: Appeal No. 777 - 7:30 P~M.!(EZD.'S~T.)~ Upon
application of New York Telephone Company~ 220 Old'CountryRoad,
Mineola~ New York~ for a special exception in accordance with
the'Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 300, Subdivision 6a,
for permission to erect an aUtomaticexchange building on property
located on the northwesterly.side of the Main Road approximately
350 feet north of Sterling Lane and approximately 1100 feet south
of Cox'Lane ~ Cutchogue~ New York. Fee paid $5.00.
, · Southold Town Board of A~eals -2-
June 10~ ~-~65
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading application for
a special exception~ legal notice of hearing, affidavit attesting
to ~s publication in the official newspaper~ and notice to the
applicant.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone present who wishes to speak
in favor of this application?
JAMES J.' MIT.?,IGAN,~ ESQ.: All the details for this have been
stated in the application, which the chairman has just read.
donSt know what I can add to this except that we have been before
this Board a year ago when the Board gave us permission to erect
the building at Greenport. The Board has seen the nature of that
b~ilding. The same thing will apply in this application. I can't
say that the building will be white, it maybe brick. The build-
ing will do nothing to deteriorate the area. It will be very
well landscaped. This building will benefit the community and
add to the assess valuation of the town.
THN CHAIRMAN: The building in Greenport was 60 feet by 80
feet~ wasn't it?
JAMES J. MJ/~IGAN, ESQ.: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Does this building have anywindows in it?
JAMES J.' MILLIGAN: It has drop out windows.
THE CHAIRMAN: Will there always be someone working at the
building.~
MR. ROEHM, Enginmer for New York Telephone: There will be
times when there is no one at the building at all. During the
day~ there will be mainteaiao~ee men there. We do want to point
out at this time, that the out~% will take about six months
to install.
TME CHAIRMAN: Are there any other questions in connection
with this application?
(~There was no response.)
THE' CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone present who wishes to speak
againsttthis application?
~{There was no response.)
-3- June 10, 1~65
SouthOld Town Board of Appeals
-'After investigation and inspection the Board finds that
New York Telephone'Company request permission to construct an
automatic telephone exchange building in Cutchogue. The Board
finds that this building wilt be approximately 92' 10" by 80' 8"
in size and complies with all the requirements of't he.Building
Code. Due to an increase in the demand for service this building~
is necessary~ and the Board points out that such a building is
a public utility. The Board find~ that the site chosen by the
applicant for said construction is close to the existing cable
plant. The Board finds that the only employees that will be on
the premises are six maintenance men, and they will not be on
the property at the same time. There will be no traffic
congestion resulting from the erection of this exchange building,
nor will there be any gases, odors, smoke, soot, vibrationsa or
noise emanated from it.
The Board points out that the reduction in parking area is
justified, in view of the fact that there will be only six
maintenance men, ~o, won't be on the premises at the same
time. The Board also points out that th~e is ample facilities
for expanding the parking area if it is necessary.
The Board ~nds that'the public convenienceand welfare
and justice will be served and the legally established or
permitted use of neighborhood property~and adjoining use districts
will not be permanently orsubstantially injured and the
spirit of the Ordinance will be observed.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by. Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that New York Telephone Company~ 220 Old Country
Road, Mineola, New York,. be granted permission to erect an
automatic ex~hangebuilding on property located on-the
northwesterly side of the Main Road approximately 350 feet
north~of Sterling Lane and approximately 1100 feet south of
Cox Lane.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Gillispie, Mr. Bergen, Mr. Hulse,
and Mr. Doyen"
PUBLIC ~ARING: Appeal No. 779 - 7:50 P.M.(E~D.'S.T.), Upon
application of PhilipA. Frey~ 70 Peterson Place, Lynbrook, New
York, for a variance in accordance with the ZoningOrdinance,
Article III, Section 305, for permission to erect an addition
to an existing dwelling with insufficient setback from the
road. Location of property: private right-of-way off the south
Southold Town Board of'Appeals
-4-
June 10,. 1~J65
side of King,Street, Orient, New York, bounded north by Paul
Daland, east by James, south by P.C. Frey, and west by Orient
Harbor. Fee paid $5.00.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading application
for a variance~ legal notice of hearing, affidavit attesting
to its publication in the official newspaper, and notice to
the applicant.
THE CHALRMAN: Is there anyone present who wishes to speak
in favor of this application? ~,
PHIT. IP A. FRET: Mr. Chairman,, ~etire next year.
I would like to make this a permanent ~ho~e;? and I would like
to have this small garage in what we ~al.t'~the back yard. I was
surprised to learn that the road side was considered the front
yard. I would like to see this go through.
THE CHAIRMAN: This will be attached to the house?
PHILIP FRET: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is this just going to be used for a garage?
PHI?.IPA. FRET: Yes, just a garage.
THE CHAIRMAn: About how far from the right-of-way is it
located.
way.
PHILIP A. FRET. It will be about 9 feet from the right-of-
THE CHAIRMAN: How much land,would you say,have you lost
through erosion?
PHILP A. FRET: I have lost about 12 feet since I bought
the /and.
THE CHAIRMAN: Your son owns the property on the southerly
side of you, is that right?
p.pIT~P A. FRET: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is this property in separate ownership?
PHILIP A. FREY~ We bought this piece of Property 100~ by
180 feet and we gave half of it to my son.
ROBERT J. DOUGLAS: I would like to say there hasn't been
any erosion since 1938.
Southold Town Board of App'~als -5- June 10, 1~65
THE CHAIR/~AbT: Is there anyone else present who wishes
to speak in favor of this application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone present'who wishes to speak
against this application?
CHARLES ElkULL, 13 Lester~Drive, East~Rockaway: I am the
owner, with my wife, of the balance of the property on the
east of-Phi~ipC. Frey. I have three building lots of 13,000
square feet. These lots are located south and west of the
right-of-way.
THE CHAIRMAN: What is the width of these lots~
CHARLES .KRUT,T.: They average about 100 foot frontage. One
is 100 feet wide, one is 129 feet wide and the other is 88 feet
wide.
THECHAIRMAN: When did you purchase your land?
MR. KRULL: In the spring of 1959.
THE CHAIRMAbT: How far fromthe right-of-way is your house
located.
MR. KRULL: On the west it is 34 feet and on the east it
is 50 feet. Mr. Frey~s house is located 39 feet from the right-
or-way, and so is hiS sor~s!.
(There was a lenghty discussion held on the surrounding
properties, setback of houses~ and size of lots. Mr. Krull
presented t~.e Board with photographs he had taken of his
home to show the setback from the right-of-way. He also had
photographs showing the neighbD~ing properties.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone else present whowishes
to be heard on thisaapplication?
MR. KRULL: I would like to say that I think this would
change the character Qf the district. I object t~any
variance that would letMr. Frey come closer to the right-of-wa~.
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Frey where is the cesspool on this lot~
in relation to the location of the hoe e?
MR. FREY: It is located right on the line of the wall were
we walk into the pantry.
Southold Town Board of A~eals -6- June 10, ~'65
THE CHAIRMAN: Were is the cesspool on your son's property?
MR. FREY: It is in the middle of the lot.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anything further in connection with
this application?
ROBERT DOUGLAS: I speak on behald of'James Douglas and
myself. I am here to voice objection to the granting of this
variance, We have four acres of land bordering on the easterly
side of this right-of-way. We have all the access to the water-
front. The right-of-way access ~these lots comes in over the
top of our land. We plan to subdivide this property and these
lots would be all one half acre lots. I made the remark
before about there not being any e~e~e~ erosion of the la~d
since 1938. I can ba~k this up, the high tide m~ is not
any further back than it was after the huricane in 1938.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard
in favor or against this application?
(there was no response.)
After investigation and inspection the Board finds that
the applicant wishes to construct an attached garage in the
front yard area, thus violating the set back requirements of
the Ordinance. The proposed addition,~namely a garage and
storage house is twenty feet by twenty fee~ T~s would be
located nine feet fr~ the riqht-of-way. The Board finds
ro~ ·
that this is much closed'than ~e other houses ~n the
neighborhood. Also the Board points out that a garage so
close to the road could create a traffic problem. The Board
finds that the applicant has an undersize lot, it being only
50 feet wide and approximately 180 feet deep.
The Board finds that strict application to the Ordinance
will not produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is not unique and would ~e~ be shared by
all properties alike in the immediate vicinity of this prot~rty
and in the same use district; and the variance does not observe
the spirit of the Ordinance and will change the character of
the district.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Hulse, it was
RESOLVED that Philip A. Frey, 70 Peterson Place, Lynbrook,
New York, be denied permission to erect an addition to an
existing dwelling with insufficient set back from the road~ on
property located south side of King Street on a private right-
o~-way, Orient, New York.
Southold Town Board of App~ls
-7-
June 10, 19~6~
However, the Board of Appeals permits Phi~p'A. Frey, 70
Peterson Place, Lynbrook,. New York, to construct a garage no
closer than the present setback determined bythe addition o f
a pantry on the east side , and a side yard variance of five feet
on the northerly line. The lenght of the garage to,he south
shall be no more than 35 feet. Location of property: private
right-of-way off the south side of King Street, Orient~ New
York~
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr, Gillisp~,~Mr. Bergen~ Mr. Hulse,
and Mr. Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 778 - *8:~$P.Mo'i(E.DjS.T~), UPon
application of Russell Tabor"~ Sons, PlattRoad, Orient, New
York, for a special exception in accordance with the Zoning
Ordinance, ArticleX, Section 1003A, for permission to renew
a farm labor camp permit granted April 30,. 1964. Location of
property: east side Platt Road, Orient, New York, bounded north
by W.B. Karcher~ and V.T. Latham,'east by R.Wi' Gillispie~
south by G,W, Hallock, west by Platt Road. Fee paide$5.00.
The Chairman opened the hearing byreading application
for a special exception, legal notice of hearing, affidavit
attesting to its publication in the official newspaper~ and
notice~'t0 the applicant.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone present who wishes
to speak in favor of this application?
(There was no response. )
.:'::~.:"'~;%:~T~:'~ii~lg:_~.. :.~ -~.r: I am a neighbor, and I have heard nothing
ob~,j~C~O~h~,:~ ~o~t this camp.
..... "~: .:~.~FRED'.~$., ~.: I have spoken to Mr. Boerum,
he
has
property across the street from here, and he has no objection
to the camp.
MRj BERGEN:H~e there been any calls from the police
in regard to this camp.
THE CHAIRMAN: Not to my knowledge.
THECHAiRMA~: Is there anyone present who wishes to speak
against this application?
(There was no response, )
Sout3aold Town Board of Appe~s -8- June 10, 19b~~
After investigation and inspection the Board finds that
the applicant wishes to renew a labor camp%permit granted
April 30,~ 1964/ The Board finds tha~othere,Ha~notbeen any
complaints concerning this campa, and?their knowledge, the
police have never been called for disorderly conduct on the
part of the laborers. The Board finds that there will be no
changes'made in this camp for the year'of 1965,. and will
be operated in the same manner as it was for the year of
1964. The Board points out ~that the farmers must have in-
dividual labor camps since the closing of the Greenport
Co-operative LaborCamp~ which use to house a large number
of laborers.
The Board finds that the public convenience and welfare and
justice will be served and the legally,established or permitted
use of neighborhood property and adjoining use districts will
not be permanently or substantially injured and the spirit of
the Ordinance will be observed.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie,~ seconded by Mrl Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that Russell Tabor &' Sons, Platt'Road, Orient,
New York#. be granted permission to renew a farm labor camp
permit for theyear of 1965, on property located east side of
Platt Road, Orientt, New York. This permit shall be granted
foronly one ~(1) year.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Gillispie~. Mr. Bergen,. Mr. Hulse~.
and Mr. Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No..,723 - 8:15
application Of'Carl & Ethel Besch,~ Main-Road,~ Mattituck,. New
York, fora special exception in accordance with the Zoning
Ordinance,, Article III, Section 300,~ Subsection 4a,. for permission
to operate a riding academy. Location of property; no=th side
Main Road, ~a~tituck,, New York, bounded north by-Long Island
Railroad, east byKersnowski-Price, south by Main Road, west by
Wm. bL~ston.
Southold Town Board of Appe~ls -9- June 10, 196~5J
JOP~McNUL~Y, ESQj: The order of the Supreme Court which
directed this hrehearing~ was to take addittmnal testimony.
Therefore, I don~t think there is any reason to go over what
has atready been brought-out.
THE CHAIRMAN: The Supreme ~Court's decision was non-committ~&ie~
This Board denied the applicant permission to operate a livery
stable and this was appealed. Mr. McNulty was the counsel for
the petitioner. Judge Zaleski in his decision dated March 10,
1965, said."Were the m~cord sufficient, the Court.would annul the
determination and directthat-relief be granted, but it is not
at all clear that the use, as proposed, satisfies the standards
established by the Ordinance. Therefore, the present application
will be granted to the extentthat the application will be remitted
to the respondent for such further proceedings including the
taking of additional testimony, as may be necessary to a proper
disposition."
In discussing this last sentence with Mr.. McNulty and Mr.
Tasker, ~itwas thought that if this Board had changed its'
opinion and wish to, we could reverse our original ruling and
say that we had made a mistake and that'the Besch application should
be granted. I talked this over'with Mro McNulty, and we dis-
cussed it~at the lastmeeting of theBoard of Appeals, and they
had not changed-their opinbn about granting this special exception.
It was agreed that we should hold another hearing to take new
evidence.
MRj MCNULTY: It-was my understanding, off the record, it
was my understanding that you were totake this matter up with
the Board to see under what conditions the Board could set
and the applicant could comply with. If the Board were of the opinion
that under no conditions this application would be granted,
suggested that a rehearing'be had in accordancewith the direction
of the Court. That is what I intended to convey to you,. maybe
I wasn~'t clear.
THE CHAIRMAn: I discussed this with the Board at, the
last'meeting~, however, the part-about setting up conditions
was not emphasized.
I think we may proceed with the hearing without reading
the application, since it was read the last time we had a
hearing on this matter.
JOHNMcNULTY, ESQ.: We are here fo~whatever further proceedings
are necessary, and to ~dduce additional facts.
THE CHAIRMAN: We will open the hearing then by hearing from
anyone who is in favor of this application? Anyone wish to be heard?
Southotd Town Board of Appe~s
June 18,~ 1965
JOHN'McNULT¥, ESQ¥: I would like to address a few of my
remarks in respect to some of the evidence ~dduced at the
prior hearing.
THE CRAIRMAN: I understand that in Judge Zaleski~s decision
he asked the Board to be more specific. We are not suppose to
stress the reports of another agency. However, .sometimes we
have to relyon Other agencies. We have reports from the Police
Chief and from the Board of~Health.
JOHN McNULTY,~ ESQj: It is my understanding that we are not
here to go over what is already in the record. This is merely sent
back, as I understand it, to further proceedings, to take additional
testimony, so that the Board may make further findings. I intro-
duce to the Board a certified copy of a deed for the property
directly across the street from the vegetable stand. This deed
iS recorded in Liber no. 5655 on page 189. This property is
now owned by Mr. James Olsen. I believe at the last hearing
Mr. Olsen testified that dust-and flies interfered with his
business. This deed points out that &t the time of the last
hearing, he was only a tennant on th~ property and he did not
own the land. He bought the land after the dust and flies
were-there, so if the dust and flies were that bad,~ I doubt if
he would have purchased the land.
T~ECHAIRMAN:- It miSht have been the only land available.
I know that he was looking for a place. We denied him permission
to operate a real estate office out of his home.
JOHN McNULTY,~ ESQ,~: There is alot of land in the Town of
Southold. Now, Mr.~ Chairman, I don't'know whether or not this
Board has knowledge of this sworn affidavit by Mr.~ Benjamin
Jazombek.
T~E CHAIRMAN: We have a-letter in the file from Edward
Jazombek.
J~HNMcNULT¥: Benjamin Jazombek swore to an affidavit on
February7,~ 1965. The or$$inal is on file at the County'Clerk's
Office. Mr. Tasker has a copy~ and I have a copy. I am sorry
thatthere are only three copies available. I would now like
to read this affidavit into the record.
Southold Town Board of Appea~ -11- June 10, 196~-~
"STATE OF NEWYORK)ss
COUblT¥ OF SUFFOLK)
"Benjamin Jazombek, being duly sworn, deposes and says: For
the past-severa~ years I have rented the farm land and woods owned
by Hannah Hallock~and in conuection with my use of said farm land
and woods I have used the road running from said premises southerly
to Route 25.
"Carl H. Besch requested permission from me to use the
bridle paths running through the aforesaid woods in connection
with his riding academy located on Route 25. Said permission
was granted to him and is still in effect.
"Upon imformation and belief, I would estimate that approximately
90 percent-of the riding was done on the property leased by me.
I am further informed that it has been claimed that the horses
belong lng to Mr. Besch have ruined the aforesaid road. I use
said road almost every day and I know ofno damage which was
caused by said horses.
"Neit~erMr~ Besch~s horses nor the riders of same have
destroyed,any of my crops and I feel that Mr. Besch~s riding
academy is neither a nuisance nor a hazard.
"I under stand that~a question has arisen as to whether
or not Mr. Besch had permission to use the aforesaid premises
and ~mkke this affidavit in order to resolve such question
and I ~e~ realize that this affidavit will be used in the
Supreme Court~ Suffolk County, and that the Court will rely
on t~e statements contained herein.
"I make this statement freely~and of my own free will and
without payment or promise of any kind whatsoever.
"/s/ Benjamin Jazombek, notarized February 7th by John
McNulty."
Southold Town Board of Appe~
-12-
June 10, 196~
MR. BERGEN: Does Hannah Hallock own that property?
~The Board looked at the Tax map to determine whether or
not~Hannah Ha~hock owned the property that-was referred to
'in the affidavit by Benjamin Jazombeko)
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Edward Jazombek wrote the following letter
to the Board.
"November 11, 1964. Southold Town Board of' Appeals~ $outhold,
New York.
"Dear Sirs: For some period of time the horses~of-Carl
Besch have been using our farm lands, private roads, and other
acreage in this vicinity for bridle paths.
"We definitely feel this~.a hazard to us as well as other
land owners in the Laurel Lake Area.
"The riders are tresspassers. Not only do they destroy farm
crops, they also use the bathing beach area for~riding purposes.
We feel thehorses are a general nuisance both from a safety and
a health standpoint.
"We appeal to you to help us protect'ourselves.
"Thank you. Very truly yours, /s/ Edward Jazombek."
THE~CHAIRM2Hq: The following letter was also received by Mr. Bergen:
"Robert L. Bergen, Member of the Board of Appeals, Southold
Town,LOng Island, New York, November 9, 196~.
"Dear Mr. Bergen: This is in regard to Besch's riding stable
petition.
"I have no objection to anything Mr. Besch wants to do on
his property, but I do not want his horses riding on my farm or
through my woods because they have damaged crops and ruined my
roads. I have seen inexperienced people thrown from these horses
on my ~roperty and because of lack of supervision, I do not
wantany liable suits against~me.
"Please take this into consideration when this matter comes
before you.
"Thank you. Sincerely /s/ Charles A. Price,~ III."
Southold Town Board of~ Appe~s
-13-
June 10, 19~
JOHN McNUL~rf-Those letters were received by your Board,. and
in their decision the Board stated that "Applicant stated that
permission to use the premises to the north was obtained from
the owners of said premises. However, upon investigation this
Board ascertained that the owners of said premises lying to the
north have not given permission for the use of their property
for this purpose and letters to this effect are on file with
this Board".
It is for that purpose that the affidavit of~Mr. Benjamin
Jazombek was read into the record. Mr. Jazombek stated that
he had given permissions, and that 90% of the riding was done
in those woods.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don~t think that Benjamin Jazombek had
made a statement to the Board at the last hearing. It was
our understanding that Jazombeks objected to this.
ES~:
JOHN McNULTY~ I would like to have the p~titioner, Mr. Carl
H. Bosch sworn in as a witness.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you Carl H. Besch swear to tell the truth,
the whole truth~ and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
CARL BESCH: I do.
ES~.':
JOHNMcNULTY~Mr. Besch,. you are the petitioner in this
application?
CARL BESCH: Yes.
JGHN McNULTYrl ES~.: You are the same'Carl H. BOSch that
appeared before this Board previously?
CARL BESCH: Yes.
Q.-.Mr. Beschr~ there was a statement~made by'Mr. Price that
your horses had done damages to his crops. Do you know whether
or not Mr. Pzice has leased the premises to the north of you?
A.' Yes.
Q. Do you know to whom the premises were leased?
A~ Yes, to the Wilcenski Brothers.
~.' Have they .ever complained to you about the horses destroying
crops?
A, No.
So~thold Town Board of Appea~l~'s
-14-
June 10, t965
Q~ Have anyof the neighbors ever complained to you
abQut the horses?
No.
Q. Doss this include the man who owns the vegetable stand
to'the east of your property?
A. Yes.
Has he ever spoken to you about the horses?
Yes.
Q. On what occassion?
A. He wanted to buy a strip of land from me on the east
side of my property.
Did you refuse to sell him this land.
A. Yes.
Q. And was it shortly after that, that complaints were
registered with the Health Department?
A. Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: May I ask what is the reason for'that sort of
question. Are you inferring that the man who owns the vegetable
stand complained to the Health Depar~n-t aboutthe horses because
Mr. Besch refused to sell him a strip of land?
JOHN McNULTY, ES~j: Apparently.
Before I continue with the examination of Mr. Besch, I would
like to address some of my remarks to the Board. In my brief to
the Supreme Court, I took the same position as was taken before
this Board. That the application was concerned with the riding
of horses on, a daily or hourly basis. There is no other reason
for an application. I pointed outto the court that~Article III,
Section 4 permits agricultural farms, poultry farms, nurseries,
greenhouse and truck gardening ~does not include farms for the
breeding or.raising of ducks.) Article III, Section 9 provides
for the sale at-retail of farm~ garden or nursery products pro-
duced or grown on the premises or of animals raised on the
premises. The only thing excluded in'Section 4 is the raising
of ducks. Subdivision 9 pro~ides for the retail selling and
raising of animals, threfore, horses must fall under agricultural
farms as it is used in the Ordinance.
Sou~hold Town Boar d of Appeals -15- June 10, 1985
._ ~ CNA.tRMAN: As I recall in re-reading the application, the
principal purpose of Besch was boarding and raising of horses on
the premises.
JOHN McNULTY,' ES~.': The emphasis was not ~on this. Under. our
or~inance as it is written, the raising of animals is permitted
in every district of the Town. The operation of a riding academy
is permitted in .every district_ of the Town only by a special
exception. It is permitted in every district, subject to this
Boar~ determination. Therefore, our testimony and our proof
will be leaning toward the riding academy use.
THE CHAIRMAN: At the time Mr. Besch established his business,
the riding aspect was permitted in a business district. The
raising of animals was permitted in the Agricultural District.
JOHN McNULT~, ESQ,: Mr. Chairman, the testimony which we
are inducing tonight will be to the riding academy rather than
the raising and breeding ofanimals.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is correct. We are concerned with the
present ooperation. Itwas established as a non-conforming use
in a residential area, then there was a change of zone.
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ.: To go into the history of this property,
he established the horses on the premises. He was then served
with a notice of violation that he was renting horses in an "A"
zone, rather than a "B" zone. He made application for.a change
of zone to the Town Board~ so that the riding aspect-would be
permitted. The matter was pending for one year, then the
Ordinance was changed and took the riding academy out of the
b~siness zone and put it in the special exception catagory.
Thereafter, the Town Board granted the change of zone. Shortly
after the change of zone was granted, ano~er notice of violation
was served upon theapplicant. An application was then made for
a special exception.
I am now going to refer to Section 801, Article VIII, Sub-
section ~), numbers 1 through 12, which deals with items the
board should give consideration to. Now, number 1 reads: The
character of the existing and probable developmentof uses in
the district and the peculiar suitablility of such district for the
location of such permissive uses. Mr. Besch~does the renting
of these horses harm the development of this district or the
suitability'of this district?
CARL BESCH: I would say no.
Southold Town Board of Appe~'~-s -16- June 10, 1~5
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ.': Does the riding of these horses on an
hourly or daily basis harm the value of the other properties?
CARL BESCH: Not to my knowledge.
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ.': Does the renting of these horses affect
the adjoining lands?
CARL BESCH: No.
THE CHAIRMAN: It is natural that you would avoid the unfavorable
aspects.
MR. DOYEN: What significance does this have on the overall
operation? Is the renting of these horses a significant part
of your'income~
CARL BESCH: Yes.
MR. DOYEN: The raising of the horses is a permitted use, the
renting of the horses is the significant part of the operation?
CARL BESCH: Yes.
MR.' DOYEN: If I recall it correctly, it was bro~gl~t out that
the raising, broading, and breeding of horses was the important
part of the operation. It wasn't clear in my mind.
THE CHAIRMAN: A substantial fraction of your income was
from the horses?
CARL BESCH: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Consider the question of "peculiar suitability
of the location." In helping us to determine suitability, we have
a report from the'Police Department stating they have had six or
seven calls about run-away horses. The relatively narrow space
available between the main road and the railroad, proximity to
several local farms who complain of damage~ hazards to traffice
and local boys and girls camps by reason of runaways are all
factors affecting this use district asawell as the surrounding
Agricultural and Res~_~ntial use district.
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ.' It is feasible that you would have run-
away horses whether or not the horses were rented. Runaways may
be common with the raising of horses as well as the renting.
MR. DOYEN: I'am not sure I got an answer to my question.
The significant part of the operation is the renting of the
horses for riding purposes~
CARL BESCH: That is correct.
$outhold Town Board of Appea~
-17-
June 10, 196~~
MR. DOYEN: In other words, if you were only allowed to breed
these horses you wouldn't be here. The significant part is the
renting the horses for the riding aspect.
CARL BESCH: The main reason is to raise the horses and to sell
to the local people. The renting is a side line.
JOHN McNULT¥, ESQ.: Mr.$esch, do you rent out the horses
by the month?
CARL BESCH: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN:H~ there been riders thrown from their horses
while riding?
JOHN McNU~TY,' ESQ.': The negligence of someone who rents a
horse can not be referred to ~Lr. Besch. If I may make a
comparsion. This can be compared with an automobile rental
business. Someone who rents an automobile may cause a serious
accident, but that would have no affect on whet~er or not the
automobile business should be established as a special exception
use. The same should apply to horses.
MR.' HULSE: There is still one point that isn't clear.
Besch stated that the riding of the horses was a significant
part of the operation, then he stated that it was not.
JOHNMcNU~TY, ESQ.': Mr. Besch, during what period of the
year is the greastest rental activity on the premises.
CARL BESCH~ Between the time school closes and labor day.
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ,.: During the rest of the year do you have
horses on the premises?
CARL BESCH: Yes.
JOHN McNULTY, ESQJ: Mr. Besch, do you board horses?
CARL BESCHL Yes.
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ.': Do you ever supply other riding academies
with these boarded horses?
CA~L BESCH: Yes.
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ.: Where?
CARL BESCH: In Watermill, I use tohave a riding academy partner-
ship and supplied them with horses.
Southold Town Board of Appea~s
-18-
June 10~ lg~5
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ,: I th~k that clarifies that.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you board horses in the winter?
BESCH: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: How may horses ~o you have on the premises
at one time.
MR.' BESCH: It varies from time to time.
THE CHAIRMAN: You also have some horses that you own, and
rent them out by the day or by the hour?
MR.' BESCH: Yes.
THE C~: Do you have horses you breed?
MR. _BESCH: Yes.
MR. HULSE: Fir. Besch, If this rental business was lost~ would
you be forced to go out or'business?
MR. BESCH: No.
MR.' HULSE: You coul~ still operate without the rental of
the horses ?
JOHN McNULTY,' ESQ,': His income would be reduced.
THE CHAIRMAN: His expenses would also be reduced.
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ.: With respect to Article VII, Section c,1
Subsection ~b), this number (4), in regard to the availability
of adequate and proper public or private facilities for the
treatment~ removal or discb3~rge of refuse. The rental of the
horses would have no affect upon that. If the horses are
raised on the premises, then you have the refuse.
THE CHAIRMAn,: There appear~ to be inadequate facilities for
tak~z~care of the manure. Mr. Bergen and I were there and we saw
manure Dpiles that were several feet high and several feet~wideo
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ.: In respect to the Board of Health, the
Suffolk County Board of Health regulations and under State
Sanitary Code, the code of anyCounty erases any nuisance that
affects health. If Mr. Besch does not meet with the inspectors
standards, and if his operation is a health hazard, then he
would be forced to close up. (Mr. McNulty tha~ referred to a
court case of a dairy farm, in which the court-ruled that dust
~Southold ~own Board of Appe&~
June 10. 19b~
and odor would be prevalent in such an operation.) I point out
that in this case the findings of the inspectorwere not
sufficient to bring the Board of Health to close down the
operation.
THE CHAIRMAN: In this report from the Board of Health the
inspector states that the advised Mr. Besch to remove all manure
from premises bi-weekly, use bait for rodents, use insecticide
for fly controll. The inspector also states that he would
revisitthe place in two weeks.
Mr. Besch, did the inspector talk to you when he was there?
CARL BESCH: He talked to my wife and to me.
JOHN McNULTY,' ESQj: I was in contact with the Board of Health
in attempt to get the inspector here tonight. I will object to
any offerings made by the inspector~ since I can not examine him.
· H~u~IRMAN: We also have a letter here from the police
chief ~x runaway horses.
ALLAN BESCH: Many times I have had calls concerning run-away
horses~ and they werenmt even horses from the Besch farm.
JOHN McNULTY,' ESQj: Incidently, I would like to point out to
the Board that it could make a condition,, that the applicant
comply with the requirements of the Board of He<h, if it is
the sanitary conditions that the Board objects to.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you presently have a problem with rodent
infestation?
'CARL BESCH: I haven't seen a ratall~w~inter. I have poison
around, and I als~se traps.
THE CHA~: ~Ihen I was there, there appeared to be about
six months accumulation of manure.
CARL BESCH: Its about four months accumulation.
THE CHAIRMAN: The inspector states in his report that there
was evidence of flies in the buildings and rodent infestation in
the manure piles. Is that correct~ Mr. Besch?
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ.: Mr. Besch can not testify'to what the
health inspectqr found when he inspected the premises. Only the
inspector can testify to that.
$outhold Town Board of Appe~ms -20- June 10, i~$5
THE' CHAIRMAN: Do you have anything specific to say about
the dust problem?
JOHN McNULTY,' ES~.-: There will always be dust. You are
getting into the quanity of dust, compared to the normal amount
of dust.
THE 'CHAIRMAN: There is no cover crop at all on this land here?
CARL BESCH: Where the horses travel, you can't keep a cover
CrOp,
~OHN McNULTY,' ESQ;: I would like to establishing. Mr. Besch~.
which direction the prevalent wind blows in this area.
CARL BESCH: In a southwesterly direction.
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ;: The prevalent winds are from the south-
west. As I understand it, the vegetable stand is on the southwest
corner. The wind would have to blow northwest to affect the
vegetable stand.
THE CHAIpuva~N: Would you rather sell your land or would you
rather stay there and confine your business?
CARL BESCH: I would confine my business if that would suit
the Board.
THE CHAIRMAN: I myself have never seen much damage to crops
from horses~- however, your horses apparently tresspass on other
people's land. The Board of Health is displeased with the
sanitation conditions. You would have to comply with their
standards. Is it'a great problem to dispose of manure?
CARL BESCH: No, there isn't much problem in removing manure.
THE CHAIRMAN: Where would you t~ke it?
CARL BESCH: 90% of it goes to the nurseries.
THE CHAIRMAiq: This tract for the childred by the Main Road, is
it fenced in?
CARL BESCH: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is it safe for the children and thehorses?
CARL BESCH: Yes.
· Southold Town Board of Appe~s -21- June 10, 1~5
THE CHAIRMAN: What do you do,' put the children on the
horses and let'them trot?
CARL BESCH: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you ever do any'business with the camps
in that area?
CARL~SESCH: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: I suppose their parents sign a release before
they ride the horses?
CARL BESCH: I don't know.
THE'CHAIRMAN: Do you ever rent horses to other camps?
BESCH: NOe
THE CHAIRMAN: What was thisother~riding academy you said
you Supplied?
CARL' BESCH: In Watermill. I lease the horses to my partner,
and whatever he make on tlu~mhe keeps.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you board some of the horses from~Watermill?
CARL BE$CH: Yes, about 12.
THE CHAIRMAN: Does he rent the horses out~for~riding purposes?
CARL BESCH: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Does he have any problems with the Zoning laws?
CARL BESCH: No.
THE CHAIRMAN: Does anyone else wish to speak for this
application?
ALImANBESCH: I am Carl Besch~s brother. I help him out
sometimes with the horses. I ~ould like to speak forthe
application'
JOHN McNULTYsES~.: Have your ever visited the premises?
~?.?.~NBESCH.' Yes, on m~y occassions.
JOHN McNULTY, ESQ.': When you visited the premises diddyou
find that there was a fly problem?
~ Southold Town Board of AppeaSes~
-2~- Ju~ 10a 196~~
T~ere
house
live
help~
conti
He ha
on th
have
~LLAN BE~CH: The flies confine themselves to the manure piles.
doesn't seem to be any more of a fly-problem around his
than there is around my 'own hOme. The flies more or less
and die on the manure piles,
I~E CHAIRMAN: Is there anything else ?
~?.?.%N BEECH: As far as renting the horsesa it. is an income that
feed the horses. .I would like to see him be able to
hue this operation Every one can use a few extra dollars.
s · a pretty big investment- there.
MR.' DOYEN: Mr. Besch, do you have an average animal population
e place?
~ARL BEECH: It varies from time to time. One day I might
10 horses and the next day I might have as many as 50 horsesD
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard in
fare. of this application?
(There was no response.)
~E CHAIRMAN: Mr. Besch, can you idenify these photographs
that ~ere t~ken of your property?
~OHN HcNULTY, ESQ.: Mr. Besch,are the statements on the margin
of each picture fa~ly accurate?
:ARL BEECH: Yes, I would say so.
,~HE CHAIRMAN: What are these debris that are shown in the
pict re ?
CARL BE~CH: They are secondhand building materials that I use
for ~ epairing.
THE CHAIRMAn: Do you have any junk cars, in other words,.
cars that are not in operating condition?
CARL BEECH: I have some machinery in the back. There are
a co%lple of cars there.
THE CHAIRMAN: Are they junk cars?
CARL BEECH: I use them for parts.
(Mr. Carl Besch then identified the photographs of the
property in question.)
$outhold Town Board of ApD~is ~2~3- June 10~ 1965
THE CH~: At this time ~ there anyone present who
wishes to be heard in opposition?this application?
~ENRYKERNOWSKI: I Live in ~aurel#to the westof Mr. Besch.
There are a couple of thin~s I would like to clear up. First,
of all~ Mr.. McNulty, do you also represent Mr. Olsen?
JOHN McNULTY, ES~i: That is none of your business.
HERRYEERNOWSKI: Now~ referring to renting cars and ren~ing
horses, there seems to be quite a bit of difference. I don't
think you could rent a ~ar if you didn't have a propertyNew York
State drivers license. However, anyon~ can rent a horse.
THE'CHAIRMAN: Most comparisons aren't exact. You will find
differences in all comparsions.
HENRY KERNOWSKI: I went to Mr. Besch and asked him if he
would sell me a piece of property. I asked him this for the
sole purpose of keeping some distance between us. I thought
if I could get 100 feet or so, I could keep him away from my
land. Now he says after he refused to sell me the land
that is when the complaints were registered withtthe Board of
Health. I would like to know if my name was on any of those
complaints to the Board of Health.
THE CHAIRMA~: I couldn't tell you that. Besides~ that has
nothing, to do with the case.
HENRYKERNOWSK!: As faras thebvalue of property go~e,
my property, and any.property in that locality isn't worth what
it was 10 or 15 years ago.
THE CHA~: Was the chicken farm on this property in questio~
when you moved here? HOW l~ng ago did you move here?
prENRY KERNOW~KI: About _14 years ago,
THE CHAIR~L%N: The chicken farm wasn't undesirable to you
then ?
HENRy~Flm~NOWSKI: There was better housekeeping on the chicken
farm. May I ask Mr. Besch if a horse died on the property in the
last month?
CARL BESCH: I brought in a dying horse from Mr. Brown in
Orient.
HENRY EERNOWSKI: What was he dying from?
CARL BESCH: Pneumon ia
$outho~d Town Board of Appea~ -~2.4- June 10, l~~
HENRY KERNOWSKI: Did you call a vet?
CARL BESCH: No, I treated him myselfwith penicillin.
~RNI~Y~KERNOWSKI: How was the horse disposed of?
CARL BEEH: I buried him on the back of the proDerty/.
HENRY KERNOWSKI: No vet was called in~ yet you state that
the horse diedofpneumonia. How does he knoW?
THE CHAIRMAN: Whatis the reason for this type of questioning?
HENRYKERNOWSKI:-.No vet was called in to treat this horse.
Horses pass on diseases.
THE CHAIRMAN: What kind?
HENRY KER~OWSKI: I don~t~know rightnow, but I can f~kud out.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don~t think that the line of questioning is
pertineht,
HENRY KEP~OWSKI: The value of property is s~ill~ffected.
The fences are coming down. Mr. Besch uses the same post that
Mrs. Wells used to hold in the chickens. There is quite a
difference in strenght. Someone is going to be going by there
sometime and there is going to be a couple or'horses in the road.
.Someone is going to get killed. It ~appened to me when Mr.
Besch was at his other place. I was going quite slow for~tunately.
THE CHAIRMAN: Itdoesn~t make sence that someone with a large
investment-would use pc~r fencing. Is there anything else you wis~
to add~
HENRY KERNOWSKI: I~would like to register my same objection
that was made before.
THE C~~: Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard
against this application?
-HENRY~KERNOWSKI: The reason I went to Mr~ Besch to bu~ the
_land was to~keep the horsesaway from my vegetable stand.
T~E CHAIRMAN: You cannot screen the vegetable stand in?
HENRY ~RNOWSKI: No, it would look like a store then.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anything else~ou wish to say?
Southold' Town Board of Appea~£s
-25-
June 10, 19~
HENRY KERNOWSKI: No.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone else who wishes to speak
against this application?
MR. ADAMS: I am concerned with the question of safetyon
the highway. There is a large turnover'of'horses on this
property. An owner'can~t get to know the horses verywell when
there is such a turnover. There is also a question of fire and
the safety of the children in the camp.
THE ~: Where do you live?
MRjADAMS: OriOle JuleLane, in Mat~itucko But I drive by~
there and my wife drives by there, and there is a question of
safe~y on the highway.
JOHNMcNULTY, ESQ.: I have heard on an oc~assion when a
vehicle collided with an animal on the Sag Harbor Turnpike.
This person ran into a pig, the pig was on the highway. The
pointwas made that the man was negligent. That 'the highway
was public, the driver has a right to the highway, but so
do others. This is still a public highway.
MR%~ ADAF~: Shouldn't the owner have the animals under
controll at all times ?
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Besch doesn't have liability insurance.
Anyone who rides a horses t~kes over the responsibilityof the
animal.
JOHN:MCNULTY~ ESQ.': MayI point out, that an owner of a
motor vehicle is responsible for that vehicle. The owner of
a car is not responsible for the driver of the vehicle.
THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone else wish to speak against this
application?
BERTHA MASTERS: I would like to say that those horses broke
through that fence and they ate ali my flowers.
CARL BESCH: Nothing was ever said to me about that.
BERTHA MASTERS: You saw him break the fence~ you just-watched
him. You didn't say nothing.
CARL BESCH: Thatisn~t so.
South old Town Board of~ Appe~-~s
~26-
June 10, lb~
BERTHA MASTERS: There is always all those flies around
my place, and the smell makes you sick-to your stomache. My
husband used to work forMrs. Wells, when she had the chicken
farm. There wasn't all those flies and tha~ smell th~n.
CARL BE$CH: When I took over that placer there was over
2 1/2 feet-of manure on the floors. There was a hard crust
~on top of it.
THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone else wish to be heard in opposition to
this application?
MRS. ADAMS: I would like to speak for the horses. I have
come by in the last year man~imes. I w®nder if there is adequate
accommodations for all of those horses. There seems to be
very little shade for the horses. And what do the horses eat?
CARLBESCH: Grain and wheat.
MRS~ ADAMS: Who is to determine how well grained a horse is?
THE CHAIRMAN: I believe that Mr. Besch takes in horses that
he fattens up for resale.
Is there anything else to be said againstthis application?
MR%' ADAMS: Myargument was the safety on the highways and
the large turnover'of the horses. The owner can't become
familiar with the horses.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone else who wishes to speak
against this application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone at all have anything to add to the
application one way or therother?
i(~There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: If no one else wishes to be heard,. I will
close the hearing at this time for the further deliberation of
the Board?
Southold Town Board of Ap~ls
-27-
June 10, ~65
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals set ~7:30
P.M~', (E%DjS.TJ), Thursday, June 24, 1965, at the Town Office,
Main Road, Southold,' New York, as time and place of hearing
upon application of Service Sign Erectors, Inc.~ a/c Southold
Dodge, Main Road, Southold, New York, for a special exception
in accordance with the Zoning Ordiuance,.Article IV, Section 408,.
Subsection (a), for permission to erect an on premises ground
sign. Location of property: north side Main Road, Southold,
New York, bounded north by FoH.~ Sayre, east~by F.~H. Sayre, south
by Main Road and west by FjM. Blaschach.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:-Mr. Gillispie, Mr. Bergen, Mr. Hulse,
Mr. Doyen.
On motion by Mr. Bergen~ seconded by Mr. Doyen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals set 7:45
P~M.~,'(E.D.~S,-T.), Thursday, June 24, 1965, at the Town Office,
Main Road, Southold, New York, as .mae and place of hearing
upon application of'Walter Luce, Bay'Avenue, Cutchogue, New York,
for a special exception in accordance with the Zoning Ordinance,.
Article III, Section 300, Subsection 10, forpermission to
erect a sign on the property of'Frank Sidor, located on the south
side or,County Route 27A,~ Mattituck New York, bounded north by
Route 2'7A,. east by Frank Sidor, south by' Long Island Railroad,
and west by Frank Sidor.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Gillispie, Mr~ Bergen,
Mr. Hul~ and Mr. Doyen.
On motion by Mr. Hulse~ seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Sou~hold Town Board of Appeals set 8:15
p~M.'~(E.~D~'S.'T,), Upon application or'Samuel Glickman,Esq., a/c
Dawn Estates, EastMarion, New York, for a special exception
in accordance with the Zoning Ordinance, Article IV,.Section
408, Subsection (a), and Article VII, Section 703A, for per-
mission to erect a directional sign on the property of
Augustus Straussner, located north side Route 25, Traffic
Circle, Greenport, New York~ bounded north by Joseph Brandi~
east by Sou~ Avenue, south by Main Road, west by Augustus
Straussner.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:-Mr. Gillispie~ Mr. Bergen,. Mr. Hulse
and Mr. Doyen.
Southold Town Board of App~s
-28-
June 10,
On motion by Mr. Doyen, seconded by Mr. Gillispie, it was
RESOLVED thattthe Southold Town Board of Appeals set 8:30
P.M~(E.D.'S.T~), Thursday, June 24, 1965, at the Town Office,
Main Road~ South~ld, New York~ as time and place of hearing
upon application of the Greenport-SoutholdChamber of Commerce~
Greenport~ New York, for a special exception in accordance with
the Zoning Ordinance,~Article IV,~ Section408~ Subsection .(a)
for permission to erect a directional sign on the ~e~ property
of Nassau Brick~Company, located on the south side of the Main
Road, Greenport,. New York,. bounded north by MainRoad, east by-Donald
Roach, south by Long Island Railroad,. west by Telles$Sill~
Vote of theBoard: Ayes: Mr. Gillispie~ Mr. Bergen, Mr. Hulse,
and Mr. Doyen.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Hulse, it was
RESOLVED that the minutes of the Southold Town Boardof
Appeals dated May 27, 1965, be approved as submitted.
Vote of. the Board:Ayes: Mr2 Gillispie, Mr. Bergen, Mr. Hulse,
and Mr. Doyen.
The next regular meeting of the Sou~/~old Town Board of
Appeals will be held at &&7:30 P.~M.~(E,'D~-S~Tj)~ Thursday, June
24, 1965, at the Town Office~ Main Road,-Southold, New York.
Meeting adjourned 12:05
Respectfully submitted,
Barbara C. Dittmann~ Secretary