HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-05/18/2005
Albert J. Krupski, President
James King, Vice-President
Artie Foster
Ken Poliwoda
Peggy A. Dickerson
Town Hall
53095 Route 25
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971-0959
Telephone (631) 765-1892
Fax (631) 765-6641
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
Wednesday, May 18, 2005
7:00 PM
Present were: Albert J. Krupski, Jr., President
James King, Vice-President
Kenneth Poliwoda, Trustee
Peggy Dickerson, Trustee
E. Brownell Johnston, Esq.
Assistant Town Attorney for Trustees
Lauren Standish, Secretarial Assistant
Heather Tetrault, Environmental Technician
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, June 15,2005 at 8:00 a.m.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON moved to Approve,
TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES.
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 at
7:00 p.m.
WORK SESSION: 6:00 p.m.
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve,
TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES.
APPROVE MINUTES: Approve Minutes of December, 2004 and
January, 2005.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to approve,
TRUSTEE DICKERSON seconded. ALL AYES.
Approve Minutes of February, 2005 and March, 2005.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON moved to approve,
TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 2 May 18, 2005
I. MONTHLY REPORT: For March, 2005, check for $6,059.53
was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General
Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town
Clerk's Bulletin Board for review.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Welcome to our regular monthly meeting.
Just so everyone knows who everyone is here, starting off is
our CAC member, Jennifer ManninG. Brownell Johnston is on
the end, he's our legal advisor, Heather Tetrault is our
Environmental Technician. Lauren Standish runs the office.
Jim King, Peggy Dickerson, Ken Poliwoda are all Board
Members.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I have a resolution for SEQRA for the
following Listed agenda items that are listed on the agenda
for Wednesday May 18, 2005.
Be it resolved that the following Listed actions by
the Board tonight listed on the agenda of May 18, 2005 are
Type 2 under the State Environmental Quality Review Act:
Thomas J. Apraa, Jr. SCTM#37-7-9.1
Cutchogue-New Suffolk Park District SCTM#104-8-6.1
Jennifer & Philip Stanton SCTM#64-1-14.7
David Wirtz SCTM#37-4-13
Grace Kehle SCTM#103-10-20
Michael & Kim Kenin SCTM#31-9-11
Gabriel Scibelli SCTM#90-2-15
Kathryn Niedoroda SCTM#115-12-10
Lynne ^ngelson SCTM#123-7-13.1
Lucille Seitz SCTM#59-5-17&18
Dennis Hranitzky SCTM#107-9-2.1
Richard Kubiak SCTM#56-5-25
Aspsia Israfil & Vivian Lindermayer SCTM#51-1-4
Graham Head SCTM#78-8-5.1
Paradise Point Association SCTM#81-1-16.10
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favo~ ALL AYES
IV. RESOLUTIONS - ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITS:
1. GARY LAUBE requests an Administrative Permit to
construct a 10' by 16.5' storage shed with four stanchions
and a rock foundation. Located: 310 Ackerly Pond Lane in
Southold. SCTM#70-5-5
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I looked at this this afternoon. This
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Board of Trustees 3 May 18, 2005
is the original 1690 house on Ackerly Pond that we've all
looked at. He's bringing in a shed that he's going to
construct. It's just to the north of the house, but it's no
closer than the existing building already. There's going to
be no digging except for archeological digging, which he's
already done. It's going to be ground level, and the only
thing it's going to have is rock foundation, so it's not
going to be dug in. I didn't have a problem with it. Any
questions? I'll make the motion to approve the permit for
Gary Laube for the construction of a storage shed with
stanchions and rock foundation.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Ail in favor? ALL AYES
2. WILLIAM & SUSAN GRAF request an Administrative Permit
to construct a new deck and screened-in porch with partial
roof on south side of existing house. Located: 4855
Stillwater Avenue, Cutchogue. SCTM#137-3-8.3
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I looked at this a year ago. Did the
permit just run out?
MS. TETRAULT: It did just run out.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Because the hay bales were there and
everybody's permits were up on the porch.
MS. TETRAULT: Right. We told them they could come back for
an Administrative Permit because of the location of the
extensions, just the deck.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It's to the side, it's not even
seaward.
MS. TETRAULT: And you would go out and look at it this
month, but if there were problems, you would have to come in
for a full review.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: No. I had looked at this originally and
all the construction is going to the west of the house.
MS. TETRAULT: Are there any restrictions that you want to
put on it? Are there hay bales?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes, the hay bales were there with grass
growing out of the top.
MS. TETRAULT: Was there anything else there that you want
to put in this permit? Do you see you had notes?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes. They had hay bales, the 50 foot
nondisturbance. Let's do that, the hay bales were already
there. We'll put in a 50 foot nondisturbance while they're
doing a construction. So I'll make a motion to approve the
Administrative Permit to construct a new deck and
screened-in porch with partial roof on south side of
existing house.
Board of Trustees 4 May 18, 2005
MS. TETRAULT: And a 50 foot nondisturbance buffer?.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes.
MS. TETRAULT: Does that show on the plans?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: No.
MS. TETRAULT: I just want it to be clear to them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Have them amend the plans to show that on
the new plans.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Can they amend those?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Do I have a second on that?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES
V. RESOLUTIONS-MOORINGS:
1. ROLAND GRANT requests a Mooring Permit in Richmond
Creek for a 16' boat replacing Mooring #93. Access: Public
TRUSTEE KING: I think our policy is if you have dock you
can tie a boat to you don't need a mooring. I make a motion
to deny this application.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA.' Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES
2. EDWARD BOYLE requests a Mooring Permit in Town Creek
for a 17' boat replacing Mooring #530. Access: Public
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I didn't have a problem with this. I
don't think anybody did. I make a motion to approve.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES
3. WILLIAM GORDON requests a Mooring Permit in Richmond
Creek, replacing Mooring #992 for a 26' boat. Access: Public
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Once again, there seems to be no problem
with replacing this mooring. I make a motion to approve.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
4. KARL & MARY CUTLER request a Mooring Permit in Deep
Hole Creek for a 21' boat, replacing Mooring #623. Access: Private
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I make a motion to approve that one also.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES
VI. APPLICATIONS FOR AMENDMENTS/EXTENSIONS/TRANSFERS
1. CHARLES SAUCE requests an Amendment to Permit #5020
4
Board of Trustees 5 May 18, 2005
to reconfigure the floating dock from its present alignment
to straight linear configuration extending out from the
present catwalk and ramp and perpendicular to the shoreline
and secured by three new piles. Located: 2315 Pine Tree
Road, Cutchogue. SCTM#104-3-1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I missed this field inspection. I had to
attend to other Trustee duties at this time. I don't think
the applicant's here.
TRUSTEE KING: We met with him in the field and we explained
to him we don't want to exceed the pier line. If he wants
to rearrange it and keep it within that pier line, we didn't
have a problem with it. That means shortening the catwalk.
Everything's going to be the same as it is now, except the
float will be turned sideways.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He didn't submit anything.
MS. STANDISH: He was in the office yesterday, did he bring
anything in?
TRUSTEE KING: He kind of left it up in the air.
MS. TETRAULT: He came into the office and he wanted to be
clear about what we told him in the field before he spoke
with his dock builder. So I told him shorten the catwalk by
12 feet to 48. I think he understood that he had to go back
and draw up the plans.
TRUSTEE KRUPSK~: I'll make a motion to table.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKi: All in favor?. ALL AYES
2. Costello Marine on behalf of THOMAS J. APREA, JR.
requests an Amendment to Permit #5844 to resheath existing
jetty in-place with vinyl sheathing replacing existing
creosoted sheathing, and dredge existing basin to a depth of
-5' and depositing spoil (125 cubic yards) on the beach as
beach nourishment. Located: 3140 Gardiner's Bay Estate,
East Marion. SCTM#37-7-9.1.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh This is a straightforward application. I
don't know if anybody had any questions about it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: The old jetty?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There was a question about the
jetty on the west side, there's remnants of the jetty on the
west side.
MR. COSTELLO: My name is John Costelio, and I am the agent
Mr. Aprea. There's a question on the jetty?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The remnants of the jetty on the west
side, there's a functioning jetty coming out.
MR. COSTELLO: We removed that last year.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No. It wasn't Iow water, we couldn't see
5
Board of Trustees 6 May 18, 2005
what was going on, but it was pieces of wood sticking up
maybe 30 feet, it was the furthermost western side.
MR. COSTELLO: The furthest most western jetty was not part
of the application as of last year. The second jetty, the
next one to it to the east was in the DEC; we made that as
part of their permit was to remove from Iow water offshore,
at Iow water we removed it.
TRUSTEE KP, UPSKh We did see it.
MR. COSTELLO: And the inshore end of that jetty was to be
cut off at approximate beach level at that time. We were
also supposed to take the spoil and pre-fill that area, and
it was at that time. That was last year. That's a
different application, but it is part of this same amendment
request.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's just while we were out on the site we
noticed it's the westward leg of that westward jetty that's
really in bad shape we were wondering if something could be
done with that before it becomes debris.
MR. COSTELLO: I haven't inspected it since it was
removed. We took most of the material out of the bottom and
took it to the landfill.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We're talking about a different
jetty. It's this here (indicating).
MR. COSTELLO: I think it's over on the property line of
DiFilipi. We never got involved in that. We never made an
application on any portion of that. That is near the
property line of the adjacent neighbor. We didn't get
involved in that whatsoever. We don't have a permit for it
from the DEC or any other agency.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We didn't have an issue with the project.
We just noticed when we were there it was in tough
shape. Okay, thank you.
I'll make a motion to approve the application.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES
4. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of CUTCHOGUE-NEW
SUFFOLK PARK DISTRICT requests an Amendment to Permit #5832
to include the existing barrier fence and install a new
grade-level boardwalk 300' by 100' plus/minus between the
existing gazebo and the existing restroom facility.
Located: 9430 Skunk Lane, Cutchogue. SCTM#104-8-6.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Mr. Fitzgerald, we reviewed this on the
site, and I'm not going to speak for myself, I mean, I am
going to speak for myself -- I didn't have a problem with
the barrier in that it prevents people from driving on the
6
Board of Trustees 7 May 18, 2005
beach, but I think the development of the boardwalk I think
it's sort of unnecessary considering there's a paved parking
lot that people can access.
MR. FITZGERALD: There are two gentleman here from the Park
Commission who might want to address that. And if I may, on
May 9th, I gave you folks a letter that said that I had,
because of a misunderstanding on my part it's not 100 feet,
it's 275 feet from the new previously permitted gazebo -- but
unbuilt -- to the restroom facility.
MR. SMITH: My name is Jeff Smith I'm chamber person of the
Park District.
The reason we talked about the boardwalk is we had
requests from numerous parents with strollers, items of that
nature where they can walk, sit on that barrier fence that
we put up protecting them from the cars that pull all the
way up. The boardwalk is going to go on the inside of that
barrier fence. So when they get out of the car and can put
the kids on that boardwalk and the barrier fence is
protecting them. Right now there's nothing there. It's
right into the parking lot. And we get a lot of kids down
there. That's why we thought we would put the request in
for it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The Board might have comments.
TRUSTEE DICKER$ON: I think we all agreed. I think the entire Board
agreed that we were trying to reduce structure on the
beach.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I know we made comments that we were
going to put a walkway in that could exist where the cement,
the pavement is now so you're going to lose two or three
feet of pavement.
MR. SMITH: So in other words, on this side of the barrier
fence?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They visited it without me.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Right. Which I kind of agreed with. I
don't see any reason to go beyond that split-mil fence
now.
MR. SMITH: I hear you.
MR. ALLISON: My name is Dave Allison, I'm part of the Parks
Commission. I'm trying to think in my head what you were
talking about, Ken.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Landward along the split-mil fence that
exists along the beach.
MR. ALLISON: The cars that park in that parking lot will
have a tendency to park right up to the barrier fence. If
you put a walkway on that side, then it will necessitate
putting cement barriers into the parking lot itself, so they
Board of Trustees 8 May 18, 2005
have a stop barrier for the car.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: You could always create another stop
barrier, whether it's piling, handrail with a rope,
something.
MR. ALLISON: One of the reasons for the boardwalk also is
the seagulls have a tendency to grab rocks and drop them on
to the parking lot. And you can't really walk in bare feet
because you'll be stepping on all these rocks. It's a
constant clean-up job to get.
MS. TETRAULT: The seagulls will drop their clams on your
boardwalk as well.
MR. ALLISON: This is true, they know what's hard and not
hard, they'll use the parking lot.
MS. TETRAULT: They will use the wood a lot too. They can
drop onto that too.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I think I would recommend no CCA.
MR. ALLISON: It would be trex or similar material.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It could be on this side of the fence. I
agree. I grew up on that beach. I don't know, pushing a
stroller 10 years ago, seven years ago.
MR. SMITH: It was definitely going to be trex, it wasn't
going to be CCA.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I agree. It should be landward of that.
MR. SMITH: Of the parking lot?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: If it's raised, it's going to stop the
cars anyway.
MS. TETRAULT: No structure on the beach.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: But is that going to reduce the parking
area?
MR. SMITH: We do plan on going to the Town, if you're
standing in the parking lot now, looking at the beach behind
us, we do have a problem with the cars lining up there, and
we do plan on having signs put up there "no parking." I'm
not sure whether that would cause us a problem.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON; I would agree with it on the existing
roadway but not on the beach.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: My point is environmentally what's the
difference whether you have cement or a walkway? It doesn't
make much difference.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can you give us plans showing that? We
could approve that and then you can give us new plans
showing that.
MR. SMITH: I'm not following.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We can approve it upon submission of
plans.
MR. FITZGERALD: Showing what?
Board of Trustees 9 May 18, 2005
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: The walkway is landward of the parking
lot.
MR. FITZGERALD: What is the objection of having it on the
seaward side? Why is that not a good idea?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Not adding more structure to the
existing beach.
MS. TETRAULT: It's the natural resources of the town. We
don't want wood on our sand. We want beaches. It's part of
replenishment of the sand and ecosystem.
MR. FITZGERALD: Could someone explain to me why that is
environmentally unsound?
MS. TETRAULT: You can't improve upon Mother Nature.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: For one thing, there's a lot of beach
grass along there, and that's holding the sand so it doesn't
erode away.
MR. FITZGERALD: Don't you think a wood walkway would serve
the same purpose?
MS. TETRAULT: Absolutely not. In a storm condition, a wood
walkway would get in the way of the natural process.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That does flood there. That is prone to
flooding.
MS. TETRAULT: The water comes up to that parking lot and
floods it.
MR. FITZGERALD: And having a walkway there --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It becomes a hard structure in a storm
event and it's going to accelerate the erosion in a storm
event. That's the first thing the waves are going to hit
and scour out behind it, you're going to lose that beach
elevation. If you get a storm, the water's that high, the
wind's blowing and the walk would be gone at that point.
Actually putting the walk on the other side of the new guard
rail is going to protect it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It will just float.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It won't end up as debris.
MR. FITZGERALD: Let me ask you this, the barrier fence is
six feet from the edge of the pavement and in that six feet,
there is sand with grass in it, not beach grass, but funny
grass, that's okay on that side of the fence.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think that was the compromise to put it
on that side of the fence to allow for that sort of access
that's desirable as opposed to putting it on the beach side,
correct, Peggy?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes.
MR. FITZGERALD: But you are talking about putting the
walkway in the sand area?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Landward of the fence.
Board of Trustees 10 May 18, 2005
MR. SMITH: Just to the other side of the barrier fence.
MS. TETRAULT: They asked for seaward and they're being told
landward.
MR. FITZGERALD: I just want to make sure that Kenny doesn't
think it's going to be on the asphalt.
MR. SMITH: This side of the barrier fence, towards the
parking lot.
MR. FITZGERALD: On the sand.
MR. SMITH: There is some sand there but not a lot.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Broken asphalt.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: As long as it's landward of the fence.
MS. TETRAULT: So we need new plans showing that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion showing the 2' by 275'
Walkway.
MR. SMITH: When I saw that too, that's when I saw this 100
feet I was like I think we're a little short there.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It goes from the entrance?
MR. SMITH: Yes, down --
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It wouldn't be a bad idea since you're
putting a four foot path there, maybe put a four foot path
of beach grass there as a little buffer on the beach side.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: There's a lot of grass there
now. That's one of our objections, there's quite a bit.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I was thinking make it a nice plush
buffer.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to approve that
condition with the plans showing that.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES
5. En-Consultants on behalf of JENNIFER & PHILIP
STANTON request an Amendment to Permit #5974 to allow for
the replacement of an existing fixed timber dock with a
dock consisting of a 4' by 56' fixed timber catwalk; 3' by
'14' ramp and 6' by 20' "T" float secured by (2) 8" diameter
pilings. Located: 720 Town Creek Lane, Southold.
SCTM#64-1-14.7
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'm going to ask Rob Hermann to give us an
explanation of the proposed change.
MR. HERMANN: Rob Hermann of Eh-Consultants on behalf of the
applicants. Basically the dock proposed now, the modified
dock extends the exact same distance from the shoreline as
the dock that was already approved by the Board. But under
the prior approval, the float was shore perpendicular, which
was denied by the DEC. They said the only condition under
which they would approve it is if we extended the dock
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Board of Trustees 11 May 18, 2005
farther out and situated the float parallel to the
shoreline. So what we're showing now is an "L" dock so that
the entire float is basically sitting in three to four feet
of water. If you went to the site it was staked and where
that stake is is the exact same extent as the dock that was
previously approved. So the configuration of the dock is
changed but the overall seaward extension is the same.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The CAC recommended disapproval. Why was
that?
MS. MANNINO: Isn't the dock longer?.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Overall it would be the same length.
MR. HERMANN: We had two reference points, if you remember
last time, the dock would extend what we showed 34 feet off
Iow water, but if you remember Kenny and I took a
measurement of how far it would extend off where the
existing dock ends, there was about 13 feet and again that's
the same.
MS. MANNINO: I didn't see this one so I don't know first
hand.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We visited the site last week, and I don't
think the Board had any objection to the proposed amendment.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: No.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No.
MS. TETRAULT: I just want to mention there was a boat in
the intertidal area sitting on the grasses, and the Board
would like to see that moved.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Very old.
MR. HERMANN: Like a row boat?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes.
MR. HERMANN: Okay, not a problem.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to approve the
amendment.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES
6. ARTHUR TOREEL requests a last One-Year Extension to
Permit 5587 as issued on July 4, 2002, 385 Westwood Lane,
Greenport. SCTM#33-2-11
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I seriously doubt it's the last one
because I think we have been extending this since the early
'90s. But I'll make a motion to approve that.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES
7. THOMAS JORDAN requests a first One-Year Extension to
Permit 5572 as issued on June 26, 2002 and amended on June
11
Board of Trustees 12 May 18, 2005
24, 2004. Located: 1680 Brigantine Drive, Southoid.
SCTM#79-4-25
MS. TETRAULT: Did anybody go look at that?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I look at it every day.
MS. TETRAULT: I know you do. Did anybody else go look at
it?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I can't imagine anything changing there,
even without Kenny's comments.
TRUSTEE KING: I make a motion to approve the extension.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Recuse.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Aye.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Aye.
8. EDGAR EL CHAAR requests a Transfer of Permit
#1470 from Bruce R. Johnson to Edgar El Chaar, as issued on
January 7, 1981. Located: 3765 Stillwater Avenue,
Cutchogue. SCTM#137-1-1
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: There were existing extra floats. This
now has three of these pilings, it's got a catwalk, a ramp,
the float is still existing, which I didn't have a problem
with but it's got this extra float.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Isn't there a violation issued?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes. This is a transfer and from what I've been
told, she's willing to remove anything that is not of the
existing permit.
MS. TETRAULT: She just wants to be in compliance. She
wants a permit in her name. She doesn't know what was
allowed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Why don't we approve it subject to her
removing everything that wasn't permitted.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Right. Hold the permit until it's in
compliance.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the permit
with the condition that anything that is not in compliance
with the existing permit be removed, and I just want to make
sure that the one thing that was on the catwalk was this
huge white railing that went all the way down; so I would
also comment that that be removed.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I need a motion to go offthe regular
meeting.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
12
Board of Trustees 13 May 18, 2005
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES
VII. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM
THE SUFFOLK TIMES. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF.
FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESS IF POSSIBLE
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is the public hearing portion of the
meeting. Before we start, there are a number of public
hearings tonight that will not be opened. I want to
announce that so no one has to sit here and wait for
nothing. Number 13, James Murray and Susan Segur is
postponed; Number 14, Alan Cardinale is postponed; Number 16,
Sim Moy; Number 18, Matt-A-Mar by the Bay is postponed;
Number 19, Vincent and Carol Manago and Number 20, LI Sound
Oyster Company; Number 21, J and C Holding is postponed;
Number 22, Frank Purita is postponed.
Before we start the other public hearings, we have
to go into executive session over some serious matter. And
so we will meet, the Board is going to meet in the
conference room.
(Off the record)
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thank you everyone for being patient. If
anyone would like to comment on any of these applications,
please come up to the microphone and identify yourself for
the record.
COASTAL EROSION & WETLANDS PERMITS
1. Patricia Moore on behalf of LEWIS & HELAINE TEPERMAN
requests a Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion Permit for the
existing beach house. Located: 1225 Aquaview Avenue, East
Marion. SCTM#21-2-16
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak on
behalf of this application?
MS. MOORE: Patricia Moore. Dr. Teperman apologizes. He
was planning on coming out here but he was called away so he
couldn't make it, but we are here.
If you recall from the last meeting we had with the
Board Dr. Teperman asked, what do you need to establish
13
Board of Trustees 14 May 18, 2005
clearly that everything that was there to his knowledge was
repaired and continued. And you suggested two things, or
you asked for two things, which we have now submitted to the
Board prior to this meeting, but I have the original aerial
photograph, I had to make a photocopy of it, obviously, I
have the original here. We also prepared a topographic
survey which, quite frankly, the topographical survey I
think is superfluous here because we have the aerial
photograph that cleady shows that all the structures that
Dr. Teperman repaired once he acquired the property are all
the structures that were there at the point of enactment of
the coastal erosion hazard law that's in the books. So in
addition to that, the law went into effect in 1991, the
closest aerial that we could get from Aerographics was
December 22, 1992, what I did I chased down Mr. Wetmore, who
was the owner at the time in '91, and he was kind enough, I
found him in Florida, and he was kind enough to go over the
structures that were there. I faxed him the photocopy of
the aerial survey and he pretty much described everything
that was showing on the aerial survey. I submitted to the
Board an affidavit from Mr. Wetmore, who lived there, but
the house was actually in title to Mrs. Wetmore, Barbara
Wetmore, this is before they divorced and they went their
separate ways. But certainly they were both living in the
house. This was their principal residence and the house and
all the beach structures remain as they were when the
law went into the books, which is the issue that you have
before you.
So, if you would like to see the original aerial, I
have it here. I'd be happy to present it to the BOard.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is '92?
MS. MOORE: The law went into effect August of '91. This
aerial, which is the closest in time, is December 22, 1992.
That's why I had the affidavit to cover the period of time
from the time of the law until today. Nothing has changed.
As you can see here, when you matched the survey to the
aerial photograph, here's the house here, here's the deck
here behind the house, there's a stoop and a walkway that
goes around. I know it's difficult, but here's the roofline
here. The shadows are a little difficult to follow. Here's
the shadow of the roofline, here's the deck, here's a
stoop down to the grass, there's the path to a walkway, and
that's how you can follow down along everything is
there. Here's the deck that's at the top of the bluff, the
stairway down to the bluff. As we told you before the only
difference was that here there were apparently two
14
Board of Trustees 15 May 18, 2005
protrusions that actually encroached on the neighboring
property, so when it was repaired in-kind/in-place those two
features were removed so the decking actually no longer
encroaches on the neighbor. So it was actually reduced in
size on the easterly side. And the aerial speaks for
itself.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MS. MOORE: If you would like to keep that for your file I
could submit it. If you would prefer the photocopies and I
will take the aerial.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Those are things that we did ask for at
the last hearing. I don't know if the Board is satisfied with
that proof. But first, anyone else on Teperman?
MS. GOREL: This was done when?
MR. JOHNSTON: Before '91.
MS. MOORE: This structure is prior to the adoption of the
coastal zone law, which is what we're dealing with today.
MS. GOREL: I don't think that this at all resembles what's
there now?
MS. MOORE: It's your opinion.
MS. GOREL: My name is Jane Gorel and I live on Star's Road
in East Marion.
MS. SAWASTYNOWICZ: Nancy Sawastynowicz, and I also live on
Star's Road in East Marion.
MS. GOREL: Just looking at this picture, this doesn't look
like what I saw this afternoon and what I have seen; I have
seen the current house. I'd seen it more than a month ago,
in fact, I wrote a letter which was before the last meeting
of your Board saying that the current structure is not the
original structure. And it's very different. The current
structure is larger, and it's got decking that wasn't there,
and it's up higher off the ground.
MR. JOHNSTON: Ma'am, are you making reference to the beach
house or the beach shed or the property up on the bluff?
MS. GOREL: I'm talking about the beach house. And it looks
from this picture as though we're looking at the back of it,
which I don't think you could see now because it's so close
into the bluff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But the picture is from 1992.
MS. GOREL: That's what I'm saying, it doesn't look like the same
structure is that exists now. I mean that's right off the
top of my head.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay. Thank you.
MS. GOREL: Because I just saw the photograph. But also I --
MR. JOHNSTON: For the record, she's looking at the photo
15
Board o f Trustees 16 May 18, 2005
presented by Miss Moore.
MS. GOREL: I would say that it's unrecognizable to me in
this photo --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MS. GOREL: -- as the current structure. And well, I know
the area because I've walked the beach many, many times in
the past 30 years, and I knew the people, I knew the
Salamones, who owned the property, and I was familiar with
seeing the beach house, and it was small. It was, I would
say, level, almost level with the beach. It wasn't up about
several feet high now as it is.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How about the bathroom; did it have a
bathroom?
MS. GOREL: No. It was a very primitive structure.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Like a shed.
MS. GOREL: Yes.
MS. TETRAULT: Did it have that shower off to the west?
MS. GOREL: No.
MR. JOHNSTON: How often have you walked by that, ma'am?
MS. GOREL: How often have I walked by it?
MR. JOHNSTON: Yes.
MS. GOREL: Uncountable.
MR. JOHNSTON: Over the last three years, five years?
MS. GOREL: Over the last three, five years I would say at
least a dozen times, not so many times in the past couple of
years. In fact, I was very surprised when I saw this
structure as it is now.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MS. GOREL: I have a letter I hope it might be on file that
I sent on the 14th of April.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: if it was sent in last month, yes.
MS. GOREL: I worked for the people who owned the house.
MS. MOORE: Could you please put on the record the year that
she worked for the Salamones?
MS. GOREL: Yes, sure, I would say about 1980, eady '80s.
MS. MOORE: Prior to '917
MS. GOREL: Yes, right.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Any other comment?
MS. SAWASTYNOWICZ: Nancy Sawastynowicz, East Marion.
Most people go to town meetings not because there is not in
my backyard, well, Louis Teperman's violation is Not In My
Back Yard, it's in the Town's public beach yard. If this beach
house is allowed to stay on the beach 15 feet from the
sound, it will set a precedent for other property owners to
destroy our fragile shoreline.
The little shack that was there was torn down in the two
16
Board of Trustees 17 May 18, 2005
weeks in the fall of 2004. It was taken off in a small trailer.
When the existing shack was torn down, the right to build was
lost. But the applicant built a new house and it was built and
finished before Christmas of 2004 -- not repaired.
The applicant keeps saying the toilet was in the
shack since the 1950s and the copy of the survey from 1975
submitted by the applicant clearly shows there were no
toilet facilities. I don't have much more to add. But the
coastal policies are now in place to protect our natural
· resources. Please do the right thing with this crime to our
beach. Thank you very much.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Any other comment?
MS. MOORE: My turn?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You don't have to speak.
MS. MOORE: I need to ratify some things I've already put on
the record and to clear up I think a misunderstanding on her
part regarding the sanitary. What you have in your file is
an old 19 -- gosh, I have to find it. It was a sanitary
application for the main house up at the top and of the
sanitary that was approved was for the one at the top. If
you recall, all the affidavits as well as a memorandum of
sale that was advertised by the broker at the time prior to
my client purchasing the property, it referred to a
bathroom, and it's a compostable bathroom. It's a
self-contained bathroom. So there would be no sanitary
showing where the Health Department would regulate because
there's no sanitary system in the ground. So there's a
misunderstanding when reading that survey as to what it
depicts.
Also I want to ratify what you already have in your
file. We have provided you an affidavit from Mrs. Palumbo,
who was a neighbor there, who is very familiar with the
property, and shared with us the history of the property as
well as the amenities that are in the cabana/beach house. I
did submit that sales memorandum. You also have multiple
surveys done by Stanley Isaacson. The surveys, if you look
at the dates when the surveys were done, the original survey
submitted was done for the seller, Gianopolous, I believe it
was, that survey shows all the structures. Then later on,
Dr. Teperman had the survey updated, then you asked for
further topographic surveys, and we provide that as well.
So I think there is ample evidence in your file to show that
this was, in fact, a cabana, beach house it's been there for
a very, very long time. The structures that were repaired
were all prior to the '91 code, and the code allows the
applicant to repair in-kind/in-place.
17
Board of Trustees 18 May 18, 2005
The facts are disputed by two neighbors who live on
Star's Road who observed the structures by walking on the
beach periodically and, in fact, in a sense trespassing
and this upset certainly Mm. Palumbo because this
beach doesn't have open access, does not have
public access. It is a very small, closed-in cove where you
can see up and down the street all the old cabanas, all the
old beach houses, that are very similar vintage as the one
that is on this property. Yes, it was repaired and we have
come before this Board for an as-built permit for it. The
penalty is that we have to pay double the fees in both
wetland permit and coastal zone permit, but it's clear that
the structures were there, and you asked for proof it. We
submitted it. And at this point we would like our permit so
this matter can be resolved.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You have to come up to the microphone,
ma'am.
MS. GOREL: I'd like to say that it is not trespassing
walking up and down the beach. That beach is public; it's
for all of us to enjoy, and I have every right to walk on
that beach. I did not walk inside the house or even on the
property belonging to the owner. I walked on the beach.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MS. MOORE: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All right. In light of all the
information we received here tonight, I'll make a motion to
table the application, put it on for field inspection so we
can try to sort this out in the field as to what was
received here tonight, and what's been submitted by the
applicant.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES
MS. MOORE: You want to meet me at the site?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure. It's in June 15th, it's in East
Marion pretty early, 9:00.
MS. TETRAULT: Pat, one thing I would respond to something
that you said, under Chapter 97, the ordinary and usual
maintenance and repair of a presently permitted existing
building is allowed, but there was no permit in place.
MS. MOORE: It pre-dates.
MS. TETRAULT: I understand and a lot of things pre-date,
and people can't rebuild unless people come for
permits. That happens all the time.
MS. MOORE: I think because we're in Justice Court and
statutes are read very strictly against the Town as far as
the language. It's a permitted structure in that it's -- I
18
Board o f Trustees 19 May 18, 2005
know what you're intending which is it doesn't have a
physical permit because it predates your jurisdiction on
issuing permits but it's a permitted structure in that it
pre-exists and therefore it's permitted.
So I don't want to quibble with you about your intention of
the way the code was adopted but it is, in fact, a permitted
structure.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Actually, Heather's right because if you
were right you wouldn't be here seeking a permit.
MS. MOORE: Actually, we could have taken that position but
as Dr. Teperman told you last time, he's trying to work with
the Town and certainly coming in and getting a permit for
the structure is what the Board would like to do. So rather
than fighting the issue and determine whether it needs a
permit or doesn't need a permit, it's sometimes easier not
to argue the point and get a permit, double the permit
application fee for as-builts, that's why you doubled the
application fee for as-builts. We have an as-built here
situation.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We'll see you on the 15th.
2. Patricia Moore on behalf of ANGELO PADAVAN requests a
Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion Permit to construct a
single-family dwelling, sanitary system, gravel driveway,
and bulkhead. Located: 22455 $oundview Avenue,
Southold. SCTM#135-1-23&24.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in
favor of the application?
MS. MOORE: Yes. We are continuing a hearing from months
ago, when you asked for certain data to be put on a survey,
which we have done. I also have with me this evening Tom
Cramer from Cramer Consulting Group, who is providing expert
testimony for the record. He's an expert with coastal
erosion hazard areas. By way of introduction we have a
curriculum vitae attached to a written proposal. We have a
written submission for the Board members. Tom has prepared
planning studies, environmental impact statements and
environmental planning reviews for various projects and
re-zonings for the Town of Southold. He has also provided
similar services to private individuals throughout Long
Island and has provided consulting services for numerous
municipalities, state agencies. He was the director of
environmental protection and commissioner of planning and
environment and development in the Town of Brookhaven. In
those capacities he was a chief executive officer in charge
of the implementation of the Brookhaven Coastal Erosion
19
Board of Trustees 20 May l 8, 2005
Hazard Program, which, like Southold's, is based on the New
York State Department of Environmental Conservation Part
505, Coastal Erosion Management.
So, what I will do is step aside and ask Tom to put
on the record all the information that we have compiled for
this Board.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MR. CRAMER: Good evening. For the record, my name is
Thomas Cramer, principal of Cramer Consulting Group with
offices at 54 North Country Road, Miller Place.
I'm sure most of this information has been put in as
far as the first part of what I'll go over. What presently
exists on site is house, deck, stairs and walkway which
total 570 square feet. All the structures predate 1991, the
effective date of the Town's Chapter 37 the Coastal Erosion
Hazard Areas. The proposed project is for a three bedroom
home with associated sanitary system, parking area and
stairs. The new footprint for the home would be 514 square
feet in size, plus the other impervious structures on the
site, which is 194 square feet; this totals 708 square feet.
This is an increase of 138 square feet, and the existing
conditions or 24.2 two pement increase over the existing.
Since the increase is less than 25 pement, the
proposal would be considered a non-major addition under
Chapter 37-6. The New York State DEC has set the coastal
erosion hazard area boundary on the north side of Soundview
Avenue, and the entire project falls within coastal erosion
hazard area. The parcel is trapezoidal in shape situated on
Long Island Sound, contains approximately 18,874 square
feet, the southern portion fronting on Soundview Avenue has
elevations that rise to approximately 20 feet and the
northern portion of the site is beach with the northern
property line being the mean high water line. The mean Iow
water line is approximately 45 feet further to the north.
The existing structures are located on the wooden
slope in the northeast corner of the site. There are
several land forms on the site as it transitions from Long
Island Sound to the roadway, these are the beach, dune and
bluffs. These land forms are defined in Chapter 37 as well
as accepted practice. The beach is defined in the code as
the zone of unconsolidated earth that extends landward from
the mean Iow water line to the waterward toe of the dune or
bluff, whichever is the most waterward. Where no dune or
bluff exists landward of the beach, the landward limit of
the beach is 100 feet landward from the place where there's
a marked change in material or physiogeographic form or from
2O
Board of Trustees 21 May 18, 2005
the line of permanent vegetation, whichever is most
waterward. Shorelines adjacent to seasonal or more frequent
overwash are inundated are considered to be beaches.
In accordance with the code, definition of the beach
in this area would extend to the dune or the bluff in this
case both the dune and the bluff are present.
^ Iow, small dune system does exist at the bottom of
the slope adjacent to the Sound Avenue. This landward edge
of the dune is approximately eight foot contour line and
extends north to what's shown on the survey as the limit of
beach/edge of dune, and that's the survey I believe the
Board has. If not, I think we have some extra copies if the
Board needs them.
This area of dune ranges in size from approximately
30 feet wide on the eastern portion of the property to about
10 foot wide on the west.
In the code, dune is defined as follows: The ridge of sand
or loose wind-blown or artificially placed earth whose principal
component of which is sand. Dune is further defined in the code under
37-16 as dunes prevent overtopping and store sand for
coastal processes, high vegetated dunes provide greater
degree protection than the Iow unvegetated ones. Dunes are
of the greatest protection value during the conditions of
storm induced high water because dunes often protect some of
the most biological productive areas, as well as
developed coastal areas. The protective value is especially
great.
The key to maintaining a stable dune system is the
establishment and maintenance of beach grass or other
vegetation on the dunes and the assurance of a supply of
nourishment of sand to the dunes.
On this site the dunes are thickly vegetated with
beach grass suggesting their permanent nature. As stated
previously, this formation is slow and Iow on the site. The
other locations such as those on the ocean or where dunes
are typically larger or more classic in formation, these
result because of the wider beaches there, the higher wind
velocity and the smaller grain of sand size, which allows
more movement and deposition of the material in these
locations.
Because of the minimum source of sand and the cobble
beaches on the north shore, dunes are typically smaller. In
this case the initial development probably started with the
deposition of material through wave action during storm
events. This raised the elevation and allowed vegetation to
take hold. The vegetation then allowed the trapping and
21
Board of Trustees 22 May 18, 2005
depositing of wind blown sand within the current dune
area.
Soil samples were taken in numerous locations within
this dune area on site. All the soil samples that were
taken reveal sand, throughout the dune there were no
cobblestones or other material found. The presence of only
sand on the site with the dune areas further supports the
fact that this Iow ridge was established by wind.
Attached in the package are several photos that
illustrate the existing conditions on and adjacent to the
site. Photo A shows the beach and dune area. The rack line
starting in the lower right-hand corner is approximately the
mean high water line and also the northern property line.
The storm beach extends from the mean high water line to the
drill line, which starts in the lower left-hand corner of
that photo. This is the landward demarcation of the beach
and the point at which the material is deposited during
storm events. Large material such as tree trunks are
clearly visible in the photo. This line also separates the
beach from the dune in this particular area.
Photo B shows the dune area from the eastern
property line looking west. The site as you can see is
heavily vegetated with beach grass, and in the center of the
photo in the dune you can see where the snow has accumulated
in the shallow area between the two Iow slopes, the two Iow
ridge lines. While small and shallow, this is typical
topographical feature of more classic dune systems and more
larger ones.
The third form on the site is the bluffs which is
adjacent to Sound Avenue. In the code bluff is defined as a
bank or cliff with precipice or steeply sloped face
adjoining a beach or body of water. The waterward limit of
this bluff is the landward limit of its waterward natural
protective feature. Where no beach is present, the
waterward limit of the bluff would be the mean Iow
water. The landward limit is 25 feet landward of the
receding edge or in those cases where there is no
discernible line of active erosion 25 feet landward of the
point of the inflection of the top of the bluff. The point
of inflection is that point along the top of the bluff where
the trend of the land slope changes to begin its decent to
the shoreline.
The bluff, while not high as those to the west at
Horton Point which extends to approximately 60 feet in
height, does represent a protective feature on this site in
the area. The bluff on-site is an eroding remnant of the
22
Board of Trustees 23 May 18, 2005
terminal moraine as the ground elevation drops from Horton
Point down to Hashamomonk Beach to the east. This landform
is, as stated, a previously eroded slope is now wooded. The
protective feature of the dune in front no doubt allowed
this vegetation to establish itself on the slope. On the
east of the area of the existing and proposed structures the
grade changes from 20 feet above mean sea level to eight
feet mean sea level, at a distance of approximately 45 feet
or a grade of approximately 26 percent. On the western edge
of the property the slope is more severe with a slope of
approximately 76 percent. No activity is proposed within
this more severe area of the slope.
The wooded slope includes a mix of trees and shrubs,
Photo B illustrates this area on the extreme left-hand
side of the photo. Photo C looks west, Photo D looks east
shows close up to the front of the existing structure and
the trees adjacent to and in front of. As can be seen in
Photo D, the existing structures to the east of the subject
property extend well seaward of the existing and proposed
structures on-site.
In the past the bluff most likely extended further
to the east than this particular property considering the
existing topography around the existing homes to the east.
The area immediately to the east was apparently modified
probably at the time of the construction of those homes. No
bluff now exists in those areas to the east. Like the
houses to the east, the construction of the existing
structure on this particular site no doubt modified the
previous bluff and allowed for level area to situate the
original site during the original improvements on the bluff
face. However, the modifications of the bluff were not
severe and the site now represents the eastern terminus of
the bluff within the area.
With regard to the impacts on the coastal erosion
hazard area, as stated previously, the proposed activity is
within the coastal erosion boundaries therefore permits are
required under Chapter 37. The proposed action is for an
addition of 24.2 percent of the existing structure and is
considered a non-major addition. While non-major addition
is not defined in the code, a major addition is defined under
37-6 as an addition to a structure resulting in 25 percent or
greater increase is the ground area coverage. Therefore the
additions, they're not greater than 25 percent of the
footprint and therefore they were not considered major
additions, and hence are considered non-major.
Article 2 of Chapter 37 establishes regulations
23
Board of Trustees 24 May 18, 2005
for activities and land and water areas in the
coastal erosion areas of the town. Regulations for the
three land forms of the site are found within here. In
accordance with 37-15, there are no proposed activities
within the beach area of the site. 37-6 provides
regulations for activities within the dune area. As stated,
the dune provides protection from wave action and stores
sand for the coastal processes. The vegetated area on the
site will protect existing and proposed structure just as it
has protected the bluff on the site in the past. Likewise,
no activities are proposed directly in the dune area.
However, under 37-6, definition of primary dune, the
landward limit of the dune extends 25 feet landward of the
landward toe of the dune. In this case, the landward toe
I'm considering the eight foot contour line. Therefore the
existing and the proposed structures would fall within
what's defined as a dune under 37-16.
Under 37-16A(5) it states that no major additions to
existing structures, non-major additions to existing
structures are allowed in pdmary dunes pursuant to a
coastal erosion management permit and subject to the permit
conditions concerning location, design and potential impacts
of the structure to the primary dune.
Since the addition is considered non-major structure
and it is not within the dune area directly, the proposed
addition would be a permissible activity. Regulations for
the bluff portion of the property is found within
37-17. 37-17A lists the activities that are prohibited in
bluffs and the proposed project does not include any of
these prohibited activities.
The activities specifically allowed on the bluffs are
defined under 37-17B. Similar to the dune regulations,
37-17B(4) states that non-major additions to existing structures
are allowed on bluffs pursuant to a coastal erosion management
permit. Again, this is considered a non-major addition, and
therefore would be considered permissible.
37-17B(1 ) allows for major alterations of a bluff
done in accordance with conditions stated in the coastal
erosion management permit issued for new construction,
modification or restoration of erosion protection structure.
The proposed activity will include minor alterations of the
bluff for the construction of additions. As part of the
project mitigation, measures such as gutters, leaders and
dry wells will contain storm water runoff, and retaining
walls will contain and limit fill on the site as proposed.
The northern retaining wall/bulkhead set above the eight
24
Board o f Trustees 25 May ! 8, 2005
foot contour line and adjacent to the dune area will provide
additional erosion protection to the bluff and structures if
the dune area is ever overtop during a severe storm.
In addition, 37-17B(3) allows for new construction,
modification or restoration of walkways or stairways done in
accordance with conditions of a coastal erosion hazard
management.
The project calls for new construction of walkways,
and the modification, reconstruction of existing stairways on
the site. The proposed activities therefore would be
permissible under the code.
With regard to the impacts to the Town wetlands
laws, there are no vegetated wetlands existing on the
subject site. The existing structure is located approximately
95 feet from the mean high water line. The 25 percent
expansion of the structure is proposed to take place in a
line with the existing structure immediately to the east of
it. The proposed expanded structure will therefore maintain
the present setback from the mean high water. The setback
is approximately five feet, less than it is minimum required
under 97-12D(1) for a residence. No impacts are expected to
occur as a result of the proposed expansion.
A new sanitary meeting the Suffolk County Department
of Health Services standards is proposed for the house. The
septic tank, the non-leaching portion, is proposed for a
setback of 104 feet from the mean high water and the nearest
proposed leaching pool will be setback 120 feet from the
mean high water. These setbacks exceed the minimum setback
requirements from 97-12D(1) of 75 feet for the septic and
100 feet for the sanitary.
The proposed project does conform with the
construction operation standards as found in 97-27 or
specifically 97-27A(3) states new and remodeled homes cannot
be situated or modified such that they project closer to the
wetlands boundary than the homes on either side of the lot.
MR. JOHNSTON: Mr. Cramer, are you just going to
read the rest of your letter?. Can we stipulate and put it
in the record? It's a seven page letter with several
attachments.
MR. CRAMER: I've already given her a copy.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll take any other comments before
the Board makes comments.
MR. JOHNSTON: Was it clear where the house was, Mr.
Krupski?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I guess that's one of my comments.
go back to the first page. Under project description, it
25
Board of Trustees 26 May 18, 2005
presently exists on the site the following structures as
shown on the survey by Young and Young, it says house 187
square feet. I've visited the house probably half a dozen
times and I have not seen a house on the site.
MR. CRAMER: If you look on the survey it's within the
existing dark boundary.
TRUSTEE KFIUPSKI: But I've never seen a house on the site.
I've seen a shed and some decking, and I've seen some things
that have been added since we were there previously. I
guess you'd have to define house.
MR. CRAMER: It's a small structure.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But how would you define house as
submitted on your report?
MR. CRAMER: It's shown on the survey existing line of house
which falls within the dark outlined area. The house itself
is the dark outlined area and the house itself is the dotted
line that's shown within it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does it have plumbing?
MR. JOHNSTON: Have you ever been inside it?
MR. CRAMER: I've seen it, but I've never been in it. Every
time I've been there it's been boarded up.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The building we've seen is a small shed
that's been added onto, we're going to guess without
permits. What struck me is it says house here, and we never
saw a house. And I want to make it clear for the record
that I've never seen a house on the site as opposed to
building or structure or some kind of generic term.
MS. TETRAULT: Also that 187 square feet for the house, is
that based on actual measurements or the survey?
MR. CRAMER: That's taken offthe survey. As I said in my
presentation, the following structures as shown on the
survey prepared by Young and Young, and if you look over the
tabulation on the right-hand side, they go through and they
provide the exact measurements for what's found on the site,
the existing house, the existing deck, the existing stairway
and the existing walkway.
MR. JOHNSTON: Would you agree that it's not your personal
opinion, reference or whatever you want to call it, your
certification, that it's a house and just go on?
MR. CRAMER: As I said, I've never been in it so I can't say
whether it has sanitary or anything else in it.
MS. TETRAULT' We measured it last week at 140 square feet.
MS. MOORE: We're relying on the surveying measurement.
MS. TETRAULT: I wanted to say for the record the Trustees
measured it.
MS. MOORE: We have a licensed surveyor'so we hope he's got
26
Board of Trustees 27 May 18, 2005
it right. As a matter of description, the coastal zone law
speaks in terms of structure, whatever that structure is is
what you're permitted to expand upon. So whether it's a
house or some other combination of materials to form a
structure, it's the structure. If the surveyor identified
it as a house and we're following along with his definition
as it showed on the survey for presentation purposes, it's
still a structure nonetheless.
MR. JOHNSTON: Pat, I have no problem if we change the word
"house" to "structure."
MS. MOORE: That's fine.
MR. CRAMER: My report is based on what I received from the
surveyor and it's exactly what he's presented, but as Miss
Moore said in your own code talks about a structure.
MR. JOHNSTON: I have no problem with that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There's also a question of when this all was
built. We have an aerial photograph and a lot that's
currently on the site. So it's sort of a question mark
again as to when, and it's clear there were additions
on the structure and onto the property, whether
they were done with permits or not, it's unclear -- or the
required permits, it's unclear.
MS. MOORE: Relying on a '71 aerial is inaccurate so we can
get an aerial for '91 but only aerials from '92 are
available. So if you would like an aerial we can obtain
one.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's more than an aerial, an aerial
is one way but there are other ways too if you have surveys.
MS. MOORE: I'll check.
MS. TETRAULT: Building permit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Predates 1991.
MS. MOORE: Because, as you say, it wasn't a dwelling
there's probably no permits for it, so.
MS. TETRAULT: Was there fill brought in next to the shed or
in front of the shed at some point?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: To the east of the structure?
MR. CRAMER: Not that I'm aware of.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because the area's been filled. We had
been out there in 2001, 2002 and there were things added
since then that we don't recall. Seems like there was
material added to the beach.
MR. CRAMER: I'm not aware of that. The first time I was to
the site was in the fall and winter.
MS. TETRAULT: How about in what you're calling the dune
area, was there some beach grass planted in there?
MR. CRAMER: I don't know whether it was planted, there's
27
Board of Trustees 28 May 18, 2005
certainly beach grass there now, it's heavily vegetated.
MS. TETRAULT: Thank you.
MR. JOHNSTON: When you type the letter up put structure.
MS. TETRAULT: I just wanted to clarify one thing,
Mr. Cramer. You mentioned the wetland laws and the
jurisdiction 100 feet, beyond 100 feet beyond the high tide
mark, Chapter 97 wetlands law, the Board of Trustees
jurisdiction is 100 feet from several different natural
features one of them being beach and one of them being
dunes, so it will need to be reviewed under 97 as well.
MR. CRAMER: It falls within the jurisdiction, as I said.
MS. TETRAULT: I misunderstood.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sir?.
MR. JOHNSON: Good evening. Again, Lars Johnson attorney
representing the North Fork Condominium Association. I just
want to try to be brief and concise with my points.
In terms of practical issues and practical
considerations, the condo association is concerned about
things like some of the things we talked about today but
basically destruction to the vegetation on the bluff,
destruction to the vegetation on the beach. I think
testimony today has been that the bluff is actually a
natural boundary and protects the landward territory there on
the other side of the bluff. And the condominium
association is directly on the south side of the Soundview
Avenue. So there's a concern about the effect it would have
on the road there in the long term, there's a concern about
also the condo association owns the beach, not all the
beach, but just on the other side of the road thers on the
western side of this property, they own, they have a deck
there that they own. And so there's also concerns about the
impact of any erosion on the neighboring beach there.
My understanding from the testimony today was that
there has been some modification or impact on neighboring
beach territory by virtue of development in the area. So I
think that is a legitimate concern. I'm not sure that we
heard enough to know that there will not be any erosion to
the beach property to the west of this project.
Also there's a letter in the file from Ms. Tetrault that this
project falls within the beach territory; therefore this
project will be strictly prohibited. That's not
Mr. Cramer's interpretation but I'm curious as to how that's
been resolved, but again the burden is on the applicant to
demonstrate that this is not beach area.
Another point, that again, I remind the Board of, is
that the Conservation Advisory Council did recommend against
28
Board of Trustees 29 May 18, 2005
this and one of the things they pointed out was there is
existing erosion on this property. So I think it's clear
that erosion is a concern here, and the fact that this is
going to be graded by pavement or some sort of grading for a
driveway I think there's going to be excavation and so
forth, I'm not sure that they have established that that is
not going to have any effect on erosion for the neighboring
properties.
And finally in terms of legal issues, the bulkhead
Proposed, again under Town Code 97-27, prohibits bulkhead on
the sound unless -- well, bulkhead on the sound is only
authorized if the likelihood of extreme erosion is
demonstrated and it shall not increase erosion to
neighboring properties. If they have in fact demonstrated
that there is a likelihood of extreme erosion, then again, I
think that sort of weighs against the building project
itself.
Again, just pointing out some obvious things, the
burden is on the applicant here. We would encourage the
Board to strictly enforce the standards for issuance of the
permit and that includes the standard requiring 100 foot
setback for the residents. I think that a good point has been
made today, which is that what's there now is not a
residence, and the fact that it is there may be irrelevant
to the question of whether this structure meets the setback.
Also there's a question as to whether it was a legal
structure at all. I think it's implied in the code when
talking about the addition to an existing structure, the
existing structure must be a legal structure. If someone
were to put up a legal structure tomorrow and come here and
claim that they're doing an addition to a structure, I would
hope that the Board would not authorize that kind of
tactic.
In conclusion, the North Fork Condominium
Association implores this Board to strictly apply the
standards in the code and feel strongly that this
application should be denied both in the law and in fairness
to the interest of the public in general, thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you, any other comment?
MS. MOORE: For a complete record, I
just want to put on the fact that this pamel consists
of two separate tax map numbers, it is a single and
separate property. The North Fork Condominium which is
opposing here has a stairway and decking structure down on
the beach, on the bank on the bluff, which can be seen from
the photographs that is actually square footage-wise, a
29
Board of Trustees 30 May 18, 2005
larger than the proposed footprint of the new house. So
with respect to the comparison of the two structures, we
have maintained a very limited approach to the development
of this property. We have limited to only 25 percent of the
existing structures, which leaves a very small -- it's a
cottage essentially, which when you look up and down this
same street, this same beach you have homes that are quite
significant and by virtue of the fact that this piece is one
of the last ones to be developed ends up getting the
restrictions that are in place today. So keeping that in
mind, I think we have established clearly that we have met
the standards. If you have any questions, Tom Cramer is
here, and I would certainly welcome questions you might
have. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment?
All right, I'll make a motion to table the application to
review the information submitted this evening.
MS. MOORE: Thank you. If you have any questions after you
have reviewed, it you can have Heather submit --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The questions I did have on the record
were proof when it was built, when the improvements were
done, et cetera, et cetera. We'll leave it open.
MS. MOORE: Subject to more questions later.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. Just proof of when the structure was
built, when the additions were done, when the soil was
brought in.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: What about what's inside? Can we have
some indication of what's inside the building?
MS. MOORE: Dry storage.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: One room, one interior room?
MS. MOORE: Is it partitioned inside?
MR. PADAVAN: One big room.
MR. JOHNSON: May I make one additional comment, very
brief. I think you mentioned that you had seen this
shed. You can tell there's been a lot of wear on the shed,
I'm assuming it wasn't put up in that condition. I think
again it goes to show that there is a lot, there's weather
battering on the structure and that goes to the question of
erosion, the safety of the structure, cost to the Town if
there's any kind of emergencies, that kind of thing. Also
with respect to the deck, I wasn't making a comparison of
the deck, but I think in the previous application there was
testimony, if not argument to the effect that this deck
actually has been a big project for the condominium
association in the sense that they have had to expend a lot
of money annually to upkeep the deck and that again goes to
30
Board of Trustees 31 May 18, 2005
the fact of how the sound will affect this structure.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thank you.
MS. MOORE: My client just told me that the structure to her
knowledge was built in 1927, so that can give you a vintage,
and it's still there that's an amazing in fact.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MR. JOHNSTON: Mr. Johnson, did you have that in writing,
what you read to us, those notes you wanted to put in the
file?
MR. JOHNSON: I request an opportunity to submit them if I
could.
MR. JOHNSTON: We would love to have them. Did I hear
Mr. Krupski table?
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor? ALL AYES
WETLAND PERMITS
1. DAVID M. WIRTZ requests a Wetland Permit to remove
158 linear feet of deteriorated existing bulkhead and
reconstruct in same location new bulkhead with vinyl
sheathing. Located: 245 Pine Place, East
Marion. SCTM#37-4-13.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to speak
on this application?
MR. WIRTZ: My name is David Wirtz. My bulkhead is about
65 years old. I put this off as long as I can, and I'd like
to fix it. So I'd appreciate an approval to my application.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Thank you. Are there any other comments
on this application? Any Board comments? CAC had some
comments, they recommended approval of the
Wetland Permit to remove 158 linear feet of deteriorated
existing bulkhead and reconstruct same location new bulkhead
with vinyl sheathing. CAC recommended approval of the
application with the condition of a 10 foot nonturf buffer
from the edge of the pool to the bulkhead. Thank you. The
whole Board looked at this on field inspection and we had
the same line of thought. We were looking for a 10 foot
nonturf buffer, as well as when you reconstruct the
bulkhead, we're looking to raise the bulkhead six inches
above grade so as to make a nonturf buffer that allows the
water to penetrate and filter through the soil before it
goes over the edge into the creek.
MR. WIRTZ: I don't know what that.means but I hope that
Kerry Heaney does and will do it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Nonturf means that you wouldn't have lawn
31
Board of Trustees 32 May 18, 2005
running up to the edge and then running over the edge.
MR. WIRTZ: i'm actually get that now. It's sinking. And
then the buffer means?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No turf grass, you can put in gravel or
ornamental plantings. You can put in decking or any
combination. We require that in all bulkhead replacements
at the time of the replacement because the area's already
disturbed.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: If there's no other comments, I'll make a
motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLiWODA: Make a motion to approve the Wetland
Permit on behalf of Mr. David Wirtz and reconstruct in
same location six inches above the grade to also include a
10 foot nonturf buffer.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: New bulkhead will be of vinyl
sheathing.
MS. TETRAULT: Will that be marked on the survey nonturf
buffer; was that 10 feet ail the way back to the pool?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: 16 feet, we're going to need it shown on
the survey, so you can come in the office and have it placed
on the survey.
MS. TETRAULT: Can you say in there that they don't disturb
the spartina on either edge when they reconstruct. We'll
put that on there.
MR. WIRTZ: It's right up against the bulkhead, on the sort
of southeast, I don't know, I assume they can do it, I don't
know. It's right up on the bulkhead.
MS. TETRAULT: No disturbance to it, if it does it has to be
replanted.
MR. WIRTZ: Okay. 10 feet is going to be right into my
pool, right?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I measured it was like 9'6" to it.
MR. WIRTZ: It has to be gravel?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. It can be deck with spaces with sand
under it so all the water will drain.
MS. TETRAULT: Or you can put any kind of native plantings
in there, not grass, nothing that needs to be fertilized,
watered, mowed.
MR. WIRTZ: Thanks.
2. Land Use Ecological Services on behalf of GRACE KEHLE
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' by 95' timber
32
Board of Trustees 33 May 18, 2005
catwalk terminating with stairs down to the water. Elevated
two foot above grade and composed of the fiberglass grating.
Located: 450 Strohson Road, Cutchogue. SCTM#103-10-20
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here who would like to
speak to this application?
MS. CANTARA: Kelly Cantara on behalf of Land Use Ecological
Services, just here tO answer any questions you might have on the
application.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: CAC recommends approval of the
application with the condition the eroded bank is planted
with native vegetation, and we all looked at this. Is there
anyone else here who would like to speak to this
application? Any Board Members comments?
TRUSTEE KING: Only notes I have is remove the remnants of
the old catwalk.
MS. TETRAULT: And three foot wide instead of four.
TRUSTEE DiCKERSON: Did you hear both of those comments?
MS. CANTARA: No, I didn't.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: To remove the remnants of an old catwalk
whatever there was there, and that it be three foot wide,
and that any erosion from the bank be replanted with native
vegetation. Any other comments?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Do you have a DEC permit yet?
MS. CANTARA: We don't, but the revised plans that you got were
based on DEC's request.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Thank you.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Ail in favor?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I am recusing myself.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE POLIWOD^: Aye.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the
request for Wetland Permit to construct 3' wide by 90' long
timber catwalk terminating with stairs down to the water,
elevated two foot above grade and composed of fiberglass
grating, with the condition that the remnants of the old
catwalk be removed and any disturbance to the eroded bank be
replanted with native vegetation.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Recuse myself.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Aye.
MR. JOHNSTON: Do you agree to those changes for the record?
MS. CANTARA: Yes, we do.
33
Board of Trustees 34 May 18, 2005
MS. TETRAULT: So bring us revised plans.
3. Joel Daly Home Improvements on behalf of MICHAEL &
KlM KENIN requests a Wetland Permit to remove the existing
in-ground swimming pool and construct an 18' by 40' deck.
Located: 420 Lakeview Terrace, East Marion. SCTM#31-9-11
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to speak
on behalf of this application? As for the Board, I looked
at this myself; it's fairly straightforward. They're taking
a pool away and they're going to put a deck in its place.
It's all behind the bulkhead. I didn't see any
environmental damage that would occur. With that said, I
make a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve the Wetland
Permit on behalf of Michael and Klm Kehle as written.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES
4. Donald G. Feller on behalf of GABRIEL SClBELLI
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a swimming pool, deck
and garage. Located: 450 Cedar Point Drive East,
Southold. SCTM#90-2-15
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to comment
on this application?
MR. FELLER: Good evening I'm Don Feller, architect on the
project. Mr. Scibelli is also here to talk about his
proposed pool, deck and garage. There's an existing two
story house, about 1920s structure there located about 40
feet from the double bulkhead. Our proposed decking will be
62 feet from the bulkhead, so we're landward of the existing
structure. Our garage will be 105 feet from the
bulkhead. We also have DECNJ on the project. And if you
have any questions.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Thank you. Any other comments on this
application? Once again, I looked at this as far as the
Board's inspection. I found it to be in compliance with all
our rules and regulations under the wetland codes. The one
stipulation I would like to make is that you need dry wells
for the pool, for the backwash, you'll have to revise a
little plan and put them on. CAC made an inspection, they
recommend approval of the application with the condition
that the dry wells are installed on the landward side of the
pool to contain the pool backwash. They just reiterate my
comments. Any other Board comments looking at the plans?
34
Board of Trustees 35 May 18, 2005
You can see it's behind the double bulkhead. It's an
accessory structure that's over 50 feet. No other comments
I'll make a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve the Wetland
Permit on behalf of Gabriel Scibelli with the condition that
dry wells be placed on the plans prior to permit being
issued.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES
5. Catherine Mesiano, Inc. on behalf of KATHRYN
NIEDORODA requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 24.5' by
50' dwelling with a 10' by 24.5' attached deck, on-site
sewage disposal system, pervious driveway, clear and
maintain a 4' wide pervious path to the proposed dock, 4' by
50' fixed dock with steps to grade. Located: 700 Deep Hole
Road, Mattituck. SCTM#115-12-10
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here who would like to
speak to this application?
MS. M.ESIANO: Catherine Mesiano on behalf of applicant. As
you stated, we're here for permits for a new dwelling, septic
system and dock on this property. At the site inspection
you made a request that if possible, we relocated the
proposed dwelling five feet closer to the road to try to
increase the setback to the wetlands. We presently have it
at 75 feet. Upon review of the survey, we find that the
septic system is designed as tightly as possible. We're
maintaining all the required setbacks set forth by the
Health Department, therefore we don't have any room in which
to move that house forward and we request approval of the
plan as proposed.
One other item, we have revised the proposed dock
design at the owner's request and at your request, we're
now proposing a iow profile dock with a fiber glass grid
surface 4' by 60', eliminating the steps that we had
originally shown. The proposed dock is two feet above grade
because we're implementing a fiberglass grid and we've
brought the end of the dock out to about two feet at Iow
tide, which is pretty much in line with the two existing
docks on either side of the property; does the Board have
any questions?
TRUSTEE KING: Cathy, does the dock move to
the north at all, or is it in the same place? Because there
is less vegetation there if it's moved to the north.
35
Board o f Trustees 36 May 18, 2005
MS. MESIANO: No, I'm sorry. I'll get you a plan. How far
North?
TRUSTEE KING: I think we figured eight or 10 feet.
MS. MESIANO: Oh, yes, I'm sorry, you wanted to flip it. If
you would like to put that in the resolution I would put
that in the plan.
MS. TETRAULT'. What size is the dock?
MS. MESIANO: 4' by 60'.
MS. TETRAULT: The Board was looking at three foot wide.
TRUSTEE KING: With the light penetration, Iow profile.
MS. MESI^NO: It's been used on the south shore, I've seen
some photographs, the vegetation's going right up to it.
TRUSTEE KING: I think it's a good way to go.
MS. MESIANO: The only thing I question from a design
perspective and a practical perspective is the DEC and your
Board I think are advocating four foot posts, and I think
that's not the best material to use because it will pull out
easier in the winter. So there might be some perfections on
the design as they get used.
TRUSTEE KING: Did you look into aluminum also besides the
fiberglass to see if there's a cost difference?
MS. MESIANO: I didn't do a cost analysis on them. I would
be worried about the interaction of the aluminum with the
salt and the corrosion. This material has a UV inhibitor,
so you're not going to have a breakdown.
TRUSTEE KING: I was just curious, thank you.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone else here who would like
to speak on this application? Any other Board Members?
I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve
the Wetland Permit to construct the dwelling and the deck
as per plans and also the fixed dock, 4' by 60' two foot above
grade, also with the grating and also with the stipulation that new plans
show that the dock be moved 10 feet to the north.
TRUSTEE KING: Dry wells and gutters?
MS. MESIANO: Yes, I have the dry wells on there.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
didn'thave
poisonivy.
DICKERSON: All in favor?
POLIWODA: Recuse.
KRUPSKI: Aye.
KING: Aye.
DICKERSON: I just want to make a comment that C^C
access to the property. We went through the
36
Board of Trustees 37 May 18, 2005
6. Samuels and Steelman, Architects on behalf of LYNNE
ANGELSON requests a Wetland Permit to renovate and
construct additions to the existing residence. Located:
950 Park Avenue, Mattituck. SCTM#123-7-13.1
TRUSTEE KING: I looked at this. I was a little confused
because the address was different, but I found it. It's
just a straightforward, pretty good size house, there's going
to be no impact at all. Are there any other comments on this?
If there are no comments, I'll close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
as submitted.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES
7. Mark Schwartz, AIA on behalf of LUClLLE SEITZ
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 10' by 16' shed and
3' by 40' timber dock with 3' by 6' steps to
grade. Located: 675 Lake Drive, Southold. SCTM#59-5-17&18
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anybody here to comment on this
application?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes, I would, Mark Schwartz for the
applicant. We're looking to get approval for the existing
shed that's on-site and the proposed dock. The shed was on
that property prior to the current owners buying the
property, and we're just trying to straighten out an
existing situation. We did contact the DEC and we
do have a letter from the DEC, they're okay with the shed
as-is, and we have not applied to the DEC for the dock
yet. The dock was drawn up on the survey by Robert Fox the
surveyor, and he told me it's in keeping with several other
docks in the area.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Thank you.
MS. TETRAULT: I would just like to let the Trustees know
there are three letters that came into the office concerning
this application.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Any other public comments on this
application? If not, should I read these letters into the
record?
TRUSTEE KING: They're in the file.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: The letters are in the file if anyone
cares to read them. The first one is, I want to go on
record as being opposed to the proposed 40 foot dock. And
the second objects to the construction of the proposed 40
37
Board of Trustees 38 May 18, 2005
foot timber dock, and the third one, also, we object to the
construction of the proposed 40 foot dock.
MR. JOHNSTON: Ken, for the record you have read each of the
letters, right?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Yes. Any other Board comments? We
looked at this as a Board. Do you guys want to make a
comment?
TRUSTEE KING: I didn't see any use for the dock
itself. Didn't you say there was supposed to be a big
nondisturbance area there?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. It was all cleared and he just
bought it.
MS. TETRAULT: And the shed was built by permit.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: C^C made an inspection, and they
recommended approval with conditions. The CAC recommends
approval of the application of the as-built shed, approval
of the docking facility with the condition the overall
length does not exceed 20 feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we were wondering about the need
for the dock because it's very undeveloped freshwater
wetland, and we just didn't want to encourage additional
structure on it.
MR. BRENDEL: Good evening, my name is Richard Brendel, and
I'm Lucille's husband and co-owner of the property. We'd
like to have the dock, quite frankly. We have little row
boats, it's a little difficult to get it in from the
little opening we have, in fact, we almost capsized through
the reeds. My wife is an artist and she likes to do a
little bit of painting, so we would like to have a little
better access to the lake, quite frankly. There aro many
other docks on the lake as it is. So I don't think we're
asking for anything that other owners around the lake have
already.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seeing how you're going to use
if for artistry as well as for launching a small vessel.
MS. SEITZ: I'd like to sit on the dock and sit and paint.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll agree there aro other structures on
the lake, but none that strewed any groat distance out into
that lake, not on your side anyway.
MS. SEITZ: I'm happy with the 20 feet. I just want to get
into the row boat and not topple over. We finally had one
day that wasn't raining, and I almost top sized the boat. My
husband got a fishing license the night before, the next
morning he said I'm going to fishing with his little rig.
He comes back five seconds later, I said what happened, he
said, I lost the lure. He said I tried to cast and I got
38
Board of Trustees 39 May 18, 2005
stuck in the tree. Couldn't even get past the reeds.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: If the applicants have no objection to
the 20 feet as overall length.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Are we looking at 3' by 20', Ken?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Yes, 3' by 20' fixed catwalk, no greater
than two feet above grade, 4" by 4" posts.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 4" by 4" posts just to try to minimize the
amount of structure 4" by 4" posts with a non CCA decking,
cedar or trex. Non-treated wood.
MS. SEITZ: I'm assuming I would get a permit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This will be on the permit so they will
know this is what they can build.
MS. SEITZ: Because we're not doing it ourselves.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: You can even get a piece of that put it
4" by 4" posts. If there's no other public comments, I'll
make a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favo~ ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve the Wetland
Permit on behalf of Lucille Seitz to construct a 10' by 16'
shed and a 3' by 20' timber or fiberglass dock with 3' by 6'
steps to grade. Located: 675 Lake Drive, Southold, with
the installation of 4" by 4" posts.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES
8. Costello Marine Contracting on behalf of PAUL MALONEY
requests a Wetland Permit to remove 4' by 25' catwalk and
dispose of same and replace with new 4' by 25' catwalk,
in-kind leading to a 32" by 16' ramp onto a 6' by 20'
floating dock secured by (2) 2-pile dolphins. Located:
1020 Goose Creek Lane, Southold SCTM#78-8-3.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone who would like to speak
on this application?
MR. COSTELLO: My name is John Costello, I'm with Costello
Marine Contracting and we are the agents for Mr. Maloney on
this application. I think it's quite simple. If the Board
has any questions, I'll be happy to answer them.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to speak to this application? Any Board
comments? CAC recommends approval of the application with
condition of the total length of the docking facility
doesn't exceed one-third the width of the creek. We had
also, I believe asked last month, there was some fencing and
the mulch that that went to the edge, we were also concerned
that it go back, up to the fireplace, there's an old brick
39
Board of Trustees 40 May 18, 2005
fireplace there.
MR. COSTELLO: Sure, if that's a condition.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We went down there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ken, you want to go through?
TRUSTEE DiCKERSON: There's still a major concern with the
width and the depth there. I think Ken had a suggestion, I
believe.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We're looking for total dock length to
end at 25 feet with no ramp and float, then a pile to the
side of it because the ramp and float would put it 50
percent out to the width of the channel. Therefore there
was no navigable water out beyond that boat once the guy put
a boat there.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: There are pictures at Iow tide. You can
even see the bottom.
MR. COSTELLO: I know.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: This shows to the other side.
MR. COSTELLO: As you see it's the minimum dock.
The only trouble is you got to try to get the float to
float.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Our concern is for navigation. If he
takes up the deep water he's going to block up the channel.
MR. COSTELLO: There's very little deep water in the
channel.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's why we went at Iow water because
Ken had spoken about it.
MR. COSTELLO: You can see where the navigable channel is;
it is a troth. It does not approach any portion of that
troth.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: You literally have 25 foot of water, you
put a 8 foot wide boat and secure it somehow.
MR. COSTELLO: With the float and the T.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: The float and the boat would be too
wide.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Are you in agreement?
MR. COSTELLO: If it's a condition.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It works. At least he can dock there.
MR. COSTELLO: I just want to make sure that the owner of
the property has use.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's a really limited area.
MR. COSTELLO: Absolutely.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: One pile inshore, one pile parallel to
the fixed.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Are thera any other comments? I'll make
a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
4O
Board o f Trustees 41 May 18, 2005
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the request
for a Wetland Permit for Paul Maloney to remove the existing 4' by
25' catwalk and dispose of same; to replace with a 25' fixed
catwalk no more than 4 foot beyond the marsh. With one
pile, single pile parallel to the fixed dock and the
shoreline. And the mulch that the end of the lawn be backed
up to where the brick fireplace is or remaining brick
fireplace is.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favo~ ALL AYES
9. Environmental Survey, Inc. on behalf of DENNIS
HRANITZKY requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' by 25'
fixed dock, 3' by 12' ramp and 6' by 20' floating
dock. Located: 4105 Wickham Avenue,
Mattituck. SCTM#107-9-2.1
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to speak on behalf of
this application?
MR. HRANITZKY: I'm Dennis Hranitzky, on behalf of myself to
try to answer any questions that the Board has.
TRUSTEE KING: I think one of the biggest questions we had is
what happened to the wetland down there?
MR. HRANITZKY: I'm not sure I understand the question. I
just purchased the house in December. I don't know much of
the history.
TRUSTEE KING: $omebody's done a bunch of clearing there or
even sprayed it. Everything's dead. There's a whole area
that's devegetated right where you want to put the dock.
MR. HRANITZKY: The property looks more or less the same as
when I pumhased it.
TRUSTEE POLiWODA: That's probably a fact because when we
were on the site we were thinking it was probably done last
fall.
MR. HRANITZKY: I couldn't speak to that. I don't know what
the property like looked like then. I can say I was out
there last weekend and there was grass growing up where the
reeds had been cut back.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: You go to the property east and west of
you, you can see the shrubs, they're alive and then on your
property they're broken. Somebody sprayed them, they're
poisoned.
MS. TETRAULT: There are protected species in there and
they're not supposed to be damaged. We need some kind of
restoration, even though it wasn't you who did it.
MR. HRANITZKY: I'm happy to cooperate.
41
Board of Trustees 42 May 18, 2005
MS. TETRAULT: We asked for new information.
TRUSTEE KING: We need new soundings and check for water
depth there. Because I don't think there's a lot of
water. I'd like to table it and take another look at it
next month, have it staked out how far out the float is
going to be. And we need to get some water depths.
MR. HRANITZKY: Certainly. I probably don't have anything
that you or the Board doesn't have, but I have a diagram
that indicates water depths, I'm not sure if this is it. I
can bring up everything I have. I'm not sure if any of this
is something that's new to you.
MR. JOHNSTON: Who is Environmental Survey?
MR. HRANITZKY: It's people I hired at the former owner's
recommendation to do the docks from.
MR. JOHNSTON: Are you still using them?
MR. HRANITZKY: I am still using them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you know what we mean by staking it
out?
MR. HRANITZKY: There are stakes on the property now.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't think there was anything out in the
water.
MR. HRANITZKY: I believe that's correct; there was nothing
in the water.
TRUSTEE KING: I'd like to table this until next month. I
know it's not your -- you should do something to restore
that area. It's really a shame what happened there. I'd
like to table this.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: June 15th could you put a stake at the
seaward end of the proposed dock?
MR. HRANITZKY: I'll see that they do, sure.
TRUSTEE KING: Let's see what it looks like in another month
maybe some of the stuff is coming back.
MR. HRANITZKY: I can say, I welcome you to go out and
inspect it, there is some grass that's growing back.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm saying it might look a little better in
another month.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Do you use a landscaper?.
MR. HRANITZKY: I do have a landscaper.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: To protect yourself in the future, I would
highly recommend taking a tape measure, measure from the
edge of the creek, edge of the water, go 50 feet landward
and put some kind of hay bale line down and say do not
touch that. Let everything grow back and when we inspect
next month we'll see what's growing, because we're going to
probably create a nondisturbance buffer along that creek
edge and put a four foot path through it, so we don't want
42
Board of Trustees 43 May 18, 2005
· to see any landscaper mowing.
MR. HRANITZKY: At present there is no landscaping back
there.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We don't want it mowed either.
MR. HRANITZKY: Sure.
MR. JOHNSTON: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to table.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor ALL AYES
10. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of ANTHONY
CACIOPPO requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 24' by 24'
two-story extension to the existing house, with garage on
the ground level and living space with bath above; with
9' by 8' fully enclosed and conditioned connected hallway to
the existing house. Located: 1455 Inlet Way,
Southold. SCTM#92-1-4.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here who would like to
speak to this application?
MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, Jim Fitzgerald. When we last spoke
you asked that we reduce the width of the proposed addition
by eight feet, and Mrs. Cacioppo has done that by reducing
the width of the garage by four feet and the width of the
connecting hallway by four feet. So that the sketch that we
gave you on the 9th of May indicates the configuration which
would conform to your request.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: The Board did look at this and we were
pleased with the revised plans. Mr. Fitzgerald, has the
fence be been removed along the wetlands?
MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, Miss Cacioppo said that they are
actively pursuing that and they have a little kid and they
don't want to take it out until they have some way fixed in
their minds about protecting the edge of the creek with
landscaping. Just in passing, do you have any thoughts
about what might be good for that?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Good set of eyes on the kid.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here who would like
to speak to this application? Conservation Advisory Council
of January said that they tabled it because the garage was not staked;
however, it appears to be too close to the wetlands so we
tried to take care of that by pulling it back a bit. Again,
the Board doesn't have any problems with the revised plans.
So I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES
MS. TETRAULT: Does the survey show hay bales and dry wells?
43
Board of Trustees 44 May 18, 2005
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: No, not on the new one. We'd like to
see the hay bale line on the survey and dry wells for roof
runoff.
MR. FITZGERALD: I think we if we put the hay bales at the
top of the retaining wall it would do the job. Does that
sound okay?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: And dry wells and gutters.
MR. FITZGERALD: Okay.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Does your pool have a dry wells?
MR. FITZGERALD: I don't know.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Can you get the pool's backwash to drain
into that?
MR. FITZGERALD: I will find out. Are you saying you want
it done if it's not there, right?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Right, yes.
MR. DENNELZIC: I'm Chades Dennelzic. I have not seen the
layout of the property as to where the structure is going
and I'm just curious as to how it related if it's that house
I think it is, on the left, there on the wetlands
originally laid out in the '20s to the entry for boating
and things like that, and now it's all grown over. And some
structural spreading of the property has occurred with big
blocks and things have been put in to widen the whole front
of the property on the west side. It's facing this way as
you're looking in. Do you have a copy?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Come up and take a look. This would be
within those -- it's sort of planned between the driveway
and the pool area.
MR. DENNELZIC: That's right in that area.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right here, we have been out here about
six times.
MR. DENNELZIC: This area here was all soft, et cetera, and
was all built up with blocks. But this area here is not
going to be intruded on?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's right.
MR. DENNELZIC: Thank you.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the
Wetland Permit for Anthony Cacioppo to construct a 24' by
20' two-story extension to the existing house with a garage
on ground level, and living space with bath above, with the
approved new plans as of May 9, 2005. Also that on this
survey we get a new survey with hay bale line on the top of
the concrete retaining wall, dry wells and gutters and that
the pool if it does not have its own dry wells for backwash
that it be connected to that drainage plan and with the
condition that the fence be removed before the permit be
44
Board of Trustees 45 May 18, 2005
issued.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES
11. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of RICHARD KUBIAK
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a one-story addition
approximately 14.9' by 17.4' to existing house landward of
the existing deck. Located: 185 Willow Point Drive,
Southold. SCTM#56-5-25
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to speak
for this application?
MR. FITZGERALD: Jim Fitzgerald on behalf of Dr. Kubiak. I
think it's pretty straightforward. It's in an area of the
house that's already occupied by an existing deck which
extends further seaward than the proposed addition.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Thank you. Any other comments? As far
as the Board, I looked at this and I agree with you, it is
straightforward. There is a deck it's 59 feet behind the
bulkhead, and it's being attached right to the house. I
have no problem with this whatsoever. There's really no
stipulations other than containing roof runoff for the dry
wells. No other comments, I'll close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve the Wetland
Permit on behalf of Richard Kubiak to construct addition as
described with the condition of dry wells for the roof
runoff.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES
12. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of ASPSlA ISRAFIL &
VlVlAN LINDERMAYER requests a Wetland Permit to construct a
set of 4' by 129' stairs and platforms from the top of the
bluff to beach. Located: 17877 Soundview Avenue,
Southold. SCTM#51-1-4.
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to comment on this
application?
MR. HERMANN: Rob Hermann from En-Consultants on behalf of
the applicants. Should be pretty straightforward
application. The stairs are going to be placed in the
location where there are remnants of stairs that existed
apparently some long, long time ago to provide access from
the top of the bluff to the beach. The Trustees' office has
already issued a non-jurisdiction letter for the
redevelopment of the site that will be upland and beyond
45
Board of Trustees 46 May 18, 2005
both Chapter 97 and coastal erosion jurisdiction. If the
Board has any questions, I can answer them.
MS. TETRAULT: The Board wanted to see a hay bale line so
there was no clearing seaward of that hay bale line, a 40
foot nondisturbance buffer back from where?
TRUSTEE KING: Top of the bluff. Any other comments on this
application?
MR. HERMANN: The Board is requesting a nondisturbance
buffer?
MS. TETRAULT: Yes. I'd like to have to look at the survey
to see where.
MR. HERMANN: Under what jurisdiction? I mean, I can pass
it on to the client. I'm not sure in what capacity the
Board would ask for that.
MS. TETR^ULT: They looked at the one next door to the east
and that's been cleared up to the bluff.
MR. HERMANN: I'm not arguing with the substance of your
question, I'm asking how the Board's going to enforce
it. As I said, I can pass it on, but I can't make a
representation without you -- in other words, what permit
can you issue that you would be able to require that?
That's not an argumentative question.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Unless the top of the bluff is considered
a natural protective feature in which case we'd have
jurisdiction.
MR. HERMANN: You do have coastal erosion jurisdiction up to
the coastal erosion hazard line.
MS. TETRAULT: We do. But we also have jurisdiction for
other natural protective features landward of the coastal
erosion line. It's coastal erosion line indicates an area
where there are certain restrictions, but there is still
jurisdiction and description in 37 about --
MR. HERMANN: I don't think the Board will actually issue a
Chapter 37 permit for this project because unless you would
tie that in maybe with the letter, I don't remember what
your letter says, but it would seem if you wanted to
establish at least a 25 foot buffer landward at the crest of
the bluff that you would have some ability to do that. But
I would think you would have to tie that into the letter of
non-jurisdiction as opposed to a wetlands permit. I don't
think you can do it under a wetlands permit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think it would be coastal erosion.
MR. HERMANN: Right. But as it relates to the
non-jurisdiction request for the house, tonight we're here
for the wetlands permit for the stairs. I think you would
have to tie it into the letter.
46
Board of Trustees 47 May 18, 2005
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, because it would only be under coastal
erosion. We should only state the obvious in the letter,
then it would be obvious.
MR. HERMANN: You can ask Brownell how you want to handle
it. i'm saying you may want to either revise or submit an
addendum to this letter, but I don't think you can make it
part of your wetlands permit.
TRUSTEE KING: Any other comments on this application?
MR. KAPL^N: Good evening I'm Mica Kaplan, I own the piece
of property to the south, and I have a question. How does
the placement of the steps impact my right of way, which is
a three foot right of way borders to the east and on the
proposed project there's about 12 foot between the edges of
their piece or of their steps and my right of way. It may
have no impact, but I just don't know.
TRUSTEE PO/IWODA: Can I ask you I didn't notice what your
right of way consists of?
MR. KAPLAN: It's a three foot right of way dirt path.
TRUSTEE KING: Does it actually go down the bluff?
MR. KAPLAN'. If you wanted to you could go down the bluff, but
you would get beat up doing it at this point in time. I
think it's more theoretical than it is practical.
MR. JOHNSTON: Does the location of the stairway cross over
your right of way?
MR. KAPLAN: No, there's a space between what is projected
and the edge of my three foot there's maybe 12 foot between
it, and I'm saying will it ever impact the right of way,
that's all. If it doesn't --
TRUSTEE KING: I don't see how it could.
MR. HERMANN: Not if it's built in the right place.
MR. JOHNSTON: We can't make a legal determination of what
legal impact it has on his right of way.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We can't. You own their right of way;
they own your right of way.
MR. JOHNSTON: You don't anticipate that their stairs is
going across your right of way or anything like that?
MR. KAPLAN: Absolutely not. And I don't think they do
either.
TRUSTEE KING: Any other comments on this application?
^nything from the Board? Still a question of how we can
possibly get a nondisturbance area there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we have to put it in the letter
with the permit stating that under coastal erosion the Board
has jurisdiction over clearing 25 feet landward of the
natural protective feature, in this case it's the top of
bluff, and that no clearing should be done in this area that
47
Board of Trustees 48 May 18, 2005
would cause erosion to the applicant's property. Obviously
you would tell them that anyway.
MR. HERMANN: Yes. And I've been asked about that
already. I received this letter, it's dated April 25, I was
away, I've probably had this for about a week, I notice you
didn't put anything in it. I mean, I somewhat anticipated
the topic coming up, but since I didn't see how you would
tie it into the 97 permit, we have been through this before
on other projects where the bulldozer comes in. It wipes
everything out, and then it becomes this Board's problem,
and a problem for the natural resource, but it's the same
problem with the DEC. No one's ever sure once these letters
of nonjurisdiction are issued how you prevent it from
happening. I think the only tenable way you can do it is by
maintaining your 25 foot non-disturbance adjacent to coastal
erosion, but I think you'd have to put that in the
nonjurisdiction letter. This hasn't gone anywhere, so, as I
say, it's up to Brownell, you can revise it or amend it and
I'll make sure it gets to the client.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'll revise that, thank you.
MR. HERMANN: The problem is they're clearing somewhere
between the stairs and the house.
TRUSTEE KING: CAC recommended approval with the condition
of no treated lumber and a 20 foot nonturf buffer at the top
of the bluff. It's not in contact with the water at all, so
you can use the treated lumber. If there's no other
comments, I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It's too bad you and this new applicant
can't get together and put a stairway on the right of way.
Therefore you would have access to the stairway, and he
would have access to the stairs and you could live in
common.
MR. HERMANN: I believe the offer was made, but Mr. Kaplan
would have to speak to that. I don't want to speak for him,
but I do believe that through the Lindermayer's attorney the
offer was made.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with the understanding our letter of non-jurisdiction will
be modified to include a nondisturbance area at the top of
the bluff of 25 foot.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES
48
Board of Trustees 49 May 18, 2005
15. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on behalf of
GRAHAM HEAD requests a Wetland Permit to construct an
in-ground swimming pool and surrounding patio and
fencing. Located: 1160 Goose Creek Lane,
Southold. SCTM#78-8-5.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in
favor of the application?
MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson, Suffolk Environmental
Consulting for the applicant, Graham Head. We originally
made this application on requesting a letter of
nonjurisdiction because it was more than 100 feet from the
wetlands boundary. Then what I understood to have
happened is that the Trustees determined the wetlands
boundary to be closer, therefore, putting it within
jurisdiction, and that's why we're here.
Now, I have sort of a long history with this
property. Years ago when I was younger I used to keep a
boat down here when the Epsteins owned it, and, of course,
Sam Burrell passed away and the property just became overgrown
and whatnot. It was eventually sold to Mr. Head and the
first thing happens it was clearing on the property. The
Trustees issued a clearing violation. At that point I
became involved and one of the things we do is we put
together a clearing plan, which is in your file dated April
2002.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Planting plan?
MR. ANDERSON: Yes. Then that planting plan was
implemented. I was there particularly for the wetland-type
plantings. When I looked at it I saw that the wetlands that
were planted were greater than what were originally flagged
as part of the restoration plan. And that's fairly
obvious. If you look at the plan here, what was highlighted
was in yellow, that was a wetlands line that everyone agreed
to when we first got involved in this, and so I think the
discrepancy we're talking about is the result of really two
things, actively planting the area and not mowing it.
That's why I think we're 91 feet instead of 100. I'm here I
think we hopefully approve it unless they maintain the
buffer.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment? Any Board comment? I
have a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor?. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh CAC recommends approval with the condition
that there be dry wells to contain pool backwash on the
plan, and a 50 foot nonturf buffer. I'll make a motion to
49
Board of Trustees 50 May 18, 2005
approve the application.
MR. ANDERSON: One question, 50 foot nonturf buffer?.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, it was a recommendation.
MR. ANDERSON: Because it seems we already created.
MS. TETRAULT: I had spoken to Mr. Anderson about this
because I took a close look, I told him they're mowing a
little too close to what was planted there. So we talked to
them about having them pull that back an additional five
feet, something like that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you want to that have that shown on the
survey?
MS. TETRAULT: Yes, I'd like to see that on the survey.
MR. ANDERSON: Probably the best way to do that is because
the wetlands line is where it is, your buffer line is going
to show larger than that because the wetlands that we're
considering for purposes of this application are about 10
feet landward of the wetlands that were on the process of
the underlying permit. So what you'll see from me is a 15
foot buffer from that wetland line, the original, which is
the 10 we planted and the five, probably the easiest way to
do it.
MS. TETRAULT: Maybe I need to make a measurement from the
pool edge to where I think it should be.
MR. ANDERSON: It should come out around 85 feet should be
the number.
MS. TETRAULT: If you remember on the site there was some
cutting there, there was landscaping. I spoke with someone
who was there; they were doing some clean-up landscaping.
They were getting into the buffer. So I want it to be a lot
clearer to them where they are and aren't allowed to cut.
MR. ANDERSON: I can even stake it for you, however you want
to do it. I would relate it to the underlying wetland line,
rather than punish them for the wetlands they put in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Or maybe the wetlands reestablished
themselves after they cleared all cover that had grown up.
MR. ANDERSON: When Sam Burrell had it, we used to clear all
the way down almost to the line of spartina. I know that
from my own recollection. But I also know when we had it
done, we had John VerDerBer out there and I watched him put
the plants in the ground.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to approve that subject
to new plans.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We'll have a brief recess.
(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)
50
Board of Trustees 51 May 18, 2005
17. Interscience Research Associates, Inc. on behalf of
PARADISE POINT ASSOCIATION requests a Wetland Permit to
allow the repair and/or replacement of the existing docking
facility. Located the Basin Road, Southold. SCTM#81-1-16.10
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who would like to speak in
favor of the application?
MR. WALKER: Jim Walker from Interscience, I'm here for the
Paradise Point Association. Their attorney's here, several
members of the association are here. They may or may not
want to speak tonight depending on what transpires.
I'm going to give a brief presentation to the Board.
The project is limited to repair and replacement of the
existing facilities. I'm going to use a presentation board
using a plan that was prepared by my office, but mostly
referring to the two surveys that were prepared by Young and
Young.
MR. JOHNSTON: Did you submit a copy of that yet?
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. Along with the design narrative and
the two surveys by Harvey Young. The first survey was drawn
up for the bulkhead repair that the Town approved and will
be done soon at the project site. For this portion of the
project, these plans were filed with the Town, the state,
the Army Corps, and the permit review is ongoing.
The plans were filed after the preparation of a
survey done by Young and Young, and the survey was only
finished in April, and it took a long time to get it but we
needed this survey for an accurate application to the
Town. I'm also going to refer to a survey that we had
prepared prior, which was a survey of an easement area and
it shows the docks owned and maintained by the association.
MR. JOHNSTON: What is the date of that survey?
MR. WALKER: The old survey was February 4, 2004. The current
survey is April 15, 2005.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: You mention that the permit is in the
phase of ongoing with the Army Corps?
MR. WALKER: The bulkhead permit is -- all permits received
for the bulkhead repair. This project is being reviewed by
the Army Corps, the Department of State, the DEC and the
Town of Southold.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: What is holding those permits up?
MR. WALKER: General delays. The same type of things that
happens when you file a new application with any regulatory
agency. We do have a New York State DEC notice of
incomplete and we're currently addressing it. A design
narrative was one of the things that was required; that
51
Board of Trustees 52 May 18, 2005
design narrative was subsequently provided to the Town. As
information becomes available or required by one regulatory
agency routinely we would submit it to all four. But the
thing that we are providing to the New York State DEC most
recently is the design narrative that I'm going to work from
tonight.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So this design narrative and plan you're
submitting tonight to this Board is the same that you're
submitting to the Army Corps and the DEC?
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. The project includes two basic
elements. The project includes resetting eight existing
piles, six of which are on the main dock and two of which
are on the float further out in the boat basin. The other
aspect of the project is replacement of the main dock
floats. We aren't doing any work on this dock in terms of
replacement floats, all we are doing is resetting the two
piles on this particular dock, we are replacing the main
dock floats as well as setting six piles. There is no work
in the upland portion of the property, and there isn't any
work on fixed pier or ramp down. It's not needed and it's
not part of the project.
One of the things that's important to see is on the
survey that was submitted it was dated February 4, 2004, you
see the docks in their winter configuration, the floats are
stored alongside the main dock, and there is no float or
ramp here. The finger piers are not sticking out on the
main dock, and what we would like to do is to take the
floats and the pilings and reset them and replace them in
the identical configuration that you see on the April 15th
survey. That's the entire project; there isn't anything
else we're proposing to do. I'm going to go through the
improvements one by one, I won't take a lot of time, but in
this manner there won't be any confusion.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: May I comment? You mentioned
installation of six piles?
MR. WALKER: Resetting.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Are you claiming that you're resetting
them on your bottom or are you conceding to us it's our
bottom, Town bottom?
MR. WALKER: Paradise Point Association pays taxes on it.
It shows up on the tax map parcel, although, the Town of
Southold owns all the bay bottom, they own the overlying
property. The boat basin is a taxable parcel.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: So you're claiming it's private bottom,
your bottom?
MR. WALKER: It's a dug canal. It's a private bottom in the
52
Board of Trustees 53 May 18, 2005
sense that it doesn't eliminate the jurisdiction of the
Town, we're not making any claim to that effect. It's a dug
canal. It's an interior boat basin that was created. We're
not saying that we're not subject to the Board of Trustees
jurisdiction. But that is a tax map parcel, and they do pay
taxes on it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Before you go any further, just one point
of clarification so I can understand your presentation
better. You submitted this plan, which is inconsistent with
this survey, which is --
MR. WALKER: That's 100 percent correct and the likelihood
that we finish everything else tonight and you close the
hearing, we should revise that large scale color drawing,
which was for illustration purposes mainly to be consistent
with the summer orientation shown on that February 4th
survey.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What was the purpose of this?
MR. WALKER: To show what the dock looks like in an easy to
read manner.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But it only shows two fingers here as
opposed to three fingers and a float, which exists on the
site.
MR. WALKER: It was based on some other surveys that we
had when we initially started the project.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's why I asked the question earlier
what was submitted to other agencies. These two objects
differ from each other and they also differ from what's on
the site. That's why I was wondering --
MR. WALKER: I understand.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: -- what is the project; what are we
reviewing? What is the proposal?
MR. WALKER: The proposal is exactly what was submitted on
the design narrative, resetting of piles and replacement of
floating docks would be identical to what's shown on April
15, 2005 survey that we just received and we submitted as
part of the application.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm sorry, what are you calling the
narrative then?
MR. WALKER: We submitted a design narrative dated April
2005, it's a three-page text that I sent to the Town by
fax.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We just want to see, everything should be
the same.
MR. WALKER: I understand that, but we got this survey on
the 15th of April, and we had waited a long time to submit
it and if anything it is unclear. We will certainly address
53
· Board of Trustees 54 May 18, 2005
that and revise the plans.
MR. JOHNSTON: Does he want to postpone until next month
because he's not ready to make his presentation?
MR. BRESSLER: Mr. President, would you mind if we follow
along?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't have a problem with everyone
looking.
MR. WALKER: I just don't want him handling my exhibit, it
belongs to me.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All right. Just don't touch it. I'm just
trying to get a clear picture of what's proposed.
MR. JOHNSTON: Mr. Krupski, for the record, would the two of
you please identify who you are?
MS. MESIANO: Catherine Mesiano.
MR. BRESSLER: I'm Eric Bressler, I'm the attorney for Mary
Zupa.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There's another question I have, just for
clarification for the Board. I think what we would like to
see are dimensions marked on the plan. I know you have them
in the narrative, but just to identify each piece.
MR. WALKER: All of that's fine, and I'd like to make the
presentation if I could.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The only reason I'd like clarification is
so we can understand and follow along. We all have the
diagrams and the surveys and as you speak we can refer to
them.
MR. WALKER: I understand where you're coming from and I'd
like to continue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't mean to disrupt you, I just want
to make it clear.
MR. WALKER: I understand. I submitted the design narrative
to the Town by fax recently. It was done at the request of
New York'State DEC. It was forwarded to the Town after the
submission of the initial application. As I stated eadier,
we got this survey on April 15th, the plans were drawn up
prior to that. And to be precise and complete, I would like
to review the improvements that are proposed. For the main
dock, the fixed pier catwalk, we aren't going to do any
improvements to. We aren't going to do any improvements to
the ramp down, no work is needed at the current time. For
the 6' by 100' floating dock section, we are proposing
replace the float completely in the same configuration that
you see again on the April 15th survey. There are three
finger piers, each 6' by 20', and in that direction
perpendicular from the main dock, there is a small 4' by 12'
floating dock, and then a longer 6' by 40' floating dock
54
Board of Trustees 55 May 18, 2005
both those docks are to be replaced at the current time.
And there are six existing pilings that are there at the job
site but have heaved from winter ice damage, and they need
to be reset.
The second part of the project is rather minor.
There's no work proposed at the smaller dock in terms of the
catwalk or the ramp down; the float is fine. All we're
doing at that smaller dock is replacing two existing pilings
to be reset. They exist. All we would be doing is
resetting them so they're installed properly. That's the
entire project.
To the extent that the Interscience plans are
inaccurate or they need notes, details added, of course,
we'll provide that information and also, the Board of
Trustees should discuss and tell me any additional details
that we need to add in terms of construction. It's my
impression that floating docks need to be constructed with
non-treated decking, for instance, any directives from the
Town in that regard, we would appreciate.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Another comment, the narrative should
match the project description. I can't understand from the
narrative what you're proposing. On the survey it shows one
long dock, with three fingers off of it. The narrative
breaks it up into smaller components. Where is the 4' by
12'?
MR. WALKER: It's right here (indicating). There's a long
6' by 100' there's a 4' by 12' section that leads to the
other float, the other float is precisely 6' by 40'.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: In the field there's another section,
that's not even discussed here at all.
MR. WALKER: We're not proposing any additional
work besides what's shown on the April 15th survey.
If there are additional floats or other docks out there,
they're not part of the application, and they can be
removed, period.
This is the project we have in front of you. The design area is
accurately portrayed, the work coincides precisely with the
survey that was submitted, and it's a very straightforward
repair and replacement application.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: One other thing that the Board discussed
on the field inspection was the need
for -- and I don't know if this is to scale or not on the
s u rvey?
MR. WALKER: The survey is to scale, certainly.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The distances between the adjacent docks
and the proposed dock and we need soundings on the basin.
55
Board of Trustees 56 May 18, 2005
MR. WALKER: Okay, that's fine.
MR. JOHNSTON: Can you tie Number 1 to where it is here,
Numbers 2, and Number4 and 5? I can't.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Do you understand the question, the
comment? That's the point I've been trying to make for five
minutes. You have seven components to the main dock, they
should be labeled and described on that survey.
MR. WALKER: I think we should do that as a formal follow-up
for your record.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Absolutely. I'm just saying that they
should be, each component should be labeled as opposed to
showing the main dock as one component.
MR. WALKER: I understand. The Board should be aware that
we're under review at DEC and Army Corps and Department of
State. We also have to do the same type of homework items
with each of those regulatory agencies. We'll be doing them
in any case and we'll certainly submit them within a week.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All set?
MR. WALKER: Yes. I'm going to set this up where it's
convenient for other people to refer to it, if you want
pages changed, I'll be glad to flip them for you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment?
MS. MESIANO: Catherine Mesiano, and I'm appearing on behalf
of the Zupas. I have a couple of comments I'd like to make
with respect to the application itself.
In reviewing the application I found some
irregularities that from my personal experience I've been
asked to go back and correct and come back with the correct
information. In referring to general rules Number 10,
pre-existing, non-permitted and/or nonconforming structures
cannot be replaced in-kind without full review and approval
by the Trustees. That leads me to a question in my
mind. In reviewing what is existing, and I don't think
either of these documents that have been shown accurately
depict all of the improvements within that basin, I think
that's something if you haven't already asked for should be
provided to you for proper review; what I think is glaringly
conspicuous by its absence is any proof of the legality of
these docks; when did they come into existence; how did they
come into existence; when did the Trustees' authority begin;
when was the permitting process initiated, I believe 1957
and 1959 are the answers to those questions; and when were
the docks created. I presented to the Board a memorandum
which has ample information in it and part of that
information is documentary evidence of the development of
those docks, and the docks are not in existence in 1957 or
56
Board of Trustees 57 May 18, 2005
1959. So under what authority is this dock replacement
being contemplated? It's not a pre-existing use. It's an
illegal structure because by the applicant's own admission
in their application on the page that asks are there any
previous permits or applications, it's clearly answered
no. So under what authority do these structures exist, and
under what authority does this Board contemplate approving
the replacement or rebuilding of these structures? I can go
on. The dock length is not constructed within the
regulations. The regulations state that docks should not be
more than one-third of the way across the waterway. This
dock is clearly two-thirds of the way across the waterway.
I also would point out that on one of the pages of
the application I think it's the page entitled Trustees'
information or Trustees' permit, there's reference in that
page to dredge spoils, proposed slopes, et cetera, nothing
in the application that we see refers to any type of dredge
activity, yet the application form makes reference to dredge
activity disposal, proposed slopes, so that was
inconsistent. I really don't know what that refers to.
Your standards for residential and commercial docks
leads me to an interesting question as well. If you
contemplate this as a residential dock, again, it doesn't
meet any of your standards. There is more than one dock.
The float is greater than 6' by 20'. I could reread your
code to you but I don't think I need to. This can't be
considered as a commercial dock. We don't have M1 or M2
zoning. This is clearly a residential area. So under what
thinking is this being contemplated? It doesn't fit your
new code.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All done?
MS. MESI^NO: I could be.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's why we're having this hearing.
That's why we're getting all the information in, you
submitted some information. We have some questions of the
applicant. The question I had for you was your first
comment was what other improvements should be on the survey
and should be under the Board's review; do you have anything
that you suggest the Board should be reviewing?
MS. MESIANO: Is the deteriorated dock on the survey?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is on the survey.
MS. MESIANO: Is it on the schematic?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
MS. MESIANO: Are all of the other docks within the basin
shown on both of those documents accurately?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No.
57
Board o f Trustees 58 May 18, 2005
MS. MESIANO: I see on the survey that notations are made to
approximate locations, if it's a survey there should be
nothing approximate about it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's why I asked the applicant to label
everything so it would be clearer.
MS. MESIANO: Thank you.
MR. JOHNSTON: Mr. Bressler, the memorandum that was
presented for the record, is that from your firm?
MR. BRESSLER: Yes, it is.
MR. JOHNSTON: Do you want to sign it or somehow indicate
that it's from your firm or orally is good enough for you?
MR. BRESSLER: Well, after my colleague spoke I was going to
get up.
MR. PASCA: Go ahead.
MR. BRESSLER: How would you like it, Mr. Johnston?
MR. JOHNSTON: Whatever makes you feel good.
MR. BRESSLER: I will state for the record that Cathy
Mesiano has handed up a memorandum of some of the relevant
points that we think should be taken into consideration.
Confident in the fact that I'll be given at least a brief
opportunity to respond to what I know is coming. I'd just
like to make several points tonight.
First of all, I am struck, like Miss Mesiano, with
the inadequacy of the application. The Board has plainly
recognized these inadequacies. You can't come in with a
plan for a project such as this without giving the Board
full and complete details. I think what's missing far
outweighs what's there. What the Board needs is an
accurate, scaled, labeled, informative plan that reflects
what the applicant intends to do. And I think what the
Board needs further is something against which to measure
what the applicant plans to do.
I'm struck by looking at the exhibits, both the ones
that the Board kindly made available to me, including the
ones that apparently cannot be touched, that what we're
doing is comparing apples and oranges. What we have on the
one hand is a later dated writing which purports to be a
survey without the necessary information that shows an
approximate location what's going to be the end
result. This is to be contrasted with something else that
the Board has noted doesn't accurately reflect what is there
now. I think at a minimum there ought to be some reflection
of the comparison of what's there now with what's proposed.
And if the pilings are in a different place, I want to know
where they're going to be and how many feet different
they're going to be. I think it's only fair for the Board
58
Board of Trustees 59 May 18, 2005
to compare what's there with what's proposed. Other than
that I join in the comments of Miss Mesiano.
Secondly, it seems to me that what's occurring
tonight in an abbreviated form is a blatant attempt to
convert what is patently an improper set of docks into a
proper set of docks by getting the imprimatur of this Board
and a permit issued.
The deficiencies in this application are legion, and
I'm not going to go into them in detail. The Board is well
familiar with its code provision and what it has to look at.
And it seems to me the items mentioned by Miss Mesiano are
certainly at the top of the list. This thing does not
comply with this Board's regulations in any way, shape or
form. it's too long, in many respects it obstructs
navigation, it is a hazard. It is environmentally
unsound. It violates just about every standard that the
Board has in Chapter 97. I don't think by coming in and
blithely telling the Board that we're just going to do a
replacement in-kind is sufficient.
As to whether or not this is replacement in-kind of
something that's pro-existing, I think Miss Mesiano is
correct, the Board's got to look at what the history of this
is. And I think Chapter 97 requires the Board to do that.
When did it come into effect; how did it come into effect;
does it have a right to be there? We aro of the opinion
that it has no right to be thero. It was built thero rogue.
It is a bandit operation. There are no permits for it, and
it has no right to be thero. It's not grandfathered under
the code. The Board has to take a hard look at it in any
event, and we believe it is not pro-existing,
nonconforming. You may hear from Counsel for Paradise Point
that it is, and it has been determined by the Zoning Board,
that is not true. There has been a determination by one
justice of the Supreme Court that whatever the Zoning Board
may have done before is not binding upon us. You may also
hear that another Supreme Court judge has decided
differently. That's not a matter for this Board to
determine. This Board's got to determine on its own whether
this is pre-existing or not.
Finally I'd like to comment on Trustee Poliwoda's
comment, which I thought was apt. Who owns the bottom?
Well, I'm sure the Trustees are well aware, this matter is
pending before Mr. Justice Cohalan and the Trustees Counsel
has gone into that case and has asserted ownership of the
bottom, and the matter is subjudice and this land is
presumptively Trustees' land, and the Trustees have an
59
Board of Trustees 60 May 18, 2005
obligation to deal with it accordingly, notwithstanding,
whatever jurisdiction may be granted to them under Chapter
97. We expect a determination on that in the not too
distant future. In the meantime, I think it behooves the
Trustees to act consistently with the assertion of their
title and take the appropriate steps to protect the
environment down there.
In conclusion, I'd like to say that I don't think
the Trustees have before them a completed application. It
is plain that the items that are required to be shown on the
survey in the application were not there, and I think that
this requires at the very least a carrying over of this
matter until complete surveys can be produced and we have an
opportunity to look at them as well as the Board and comment
on whatever they may show after the applicant gets done
doing whatever they're required to do. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MR. PASCA: Anthony Pasca, Esseks, Heifer and Angel, 108 East
Main Street, Riverhead. We are one of the attorneys for
Paradise Point. I'm not going to go into the details of the
application. I'll leave that to Jim, he's already done
that. We obviously would like an opportunity to review
whatever memorandum was handed to you, it's always nice to
be given a copy of it. I guess we'll have to FOIL it and
make our own copies if we have to, but I'd like to reserve a
little opportunity to do that before the next meeting.
I want to address a couple things, one the question
you asked about who owns the bottom land, what does it
matter for purposes of this application? That's one
question, are there different regulations applicable to
applications where you own the bottom land or where we own
the bottom land?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: To be honest, yes. For example,
in Gull Pond, which is known to be dredged, we allow
substantially larger floats. We take a different look at
it because it's a private piece of bottom on that because
it's pre-dredged.
MR. PA$CA: I'm not sure I've seen regulations in your code
that treat them differently.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We also grandfather things into a
different extent, rather than if it's public bottom, public
domain, we protect it to the fullest extent.
MR. PASCA: Randomly?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Not randomly. If it's private, it's
private.
MR. PASCA: Usually regulations are required to treat things
6O
Board of Trustees 61 May 18, 2005
differently.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: But if it is public bottom we will treat
it as we have treated those in the past.
MR. PASCA: As Mr. Bressler correctly said, that's an issue
that is before Judge Cohalan. You guys have counsel, we
have counsel, Zupa's have counsel, everybody's got counsel,
they'll dealing with the issue, I'm sure they'll work it
out.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well the ownership thing isn't a
regulation. It's just a matter of what Ken's referring to
is there is a couple of larger docks over the years that had
been grandfathered in because they were not over public
bottom. It's sort of a limited situation.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: In saying that they did not violate the
one-third rule, third across the canal, they were always
tucked in. They didn't fall under those regulations.
MR. PASCA: Okay. I want to address one other thing, which
is that somehow that this is a bandit operation, it's not a
pre-existing, nonconforming marina, it's illegal, it's not a
M1 or M2 district, and therefore, you can't have a marina.
There's a time and place for everything. This isn't the
time and place for making zoning regulations. That time
came and went and the Zoning Board, whatever Mr. Bressler
wants to say, did, in fact, issue a written decision that
said this is a legal pre-existing, non-conforming marina.
And the Zupas took an appeal from that to the Court and the
Court said that the decision by the Zoning Board was
rational, and it was being upheld. The Zupas still have the
opportunity to appeal that if they want to, and they can do
whatever they want. But as of today, the only board that
has jurisdiction over zoning in this town is the Zoning
Board and they have determined that it's a legal
nonconforming marina. And it doesn't matter, when you have
a nonconforming marina, it doesn't matter if it's a
residential district, what matters is whether it's legal
under zoning or not. And that board made the determination
and everybody's bound by it right now.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't understand what you just said.
Can I interrupt you?
MR. PASCA: Go ahead.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't understand that they ruled that
it's a legal marina?
MR. PASCA: Yes. They said it's a legal, pre-existing,
nonconforming marina.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How could they possible have jurisdiction
that would supercede this Board?
6l
Board of Trustees 62 May 18, 2005
MR. PASCA: They are a zoning board, that is their jurisdiction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But their jurisdiction isn't to approve
anything within our jurisdiction.
MR. PASCA: I didn't say that, but the issue, the suggestion
that because it's not in an M2 or M1 district, that means
it's an illegal marina, you have to distinguish between
zoning regulations and your jurisdiction, which deals with
wetlands regulations.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I want to make that clear, and I want to
make that distinction because you're saying that some other
board said they said it's a legal marina. You're saying
that as if it's over tonight --
MR. PASCA: From a zoning standpoint it's a legal,
pre-existing, nonconforming marina. Period, that's it. I'm
not saying that you don't have any jurisdiction to deal with
this from your regulatory standpoint, but to call this a
bandit operation and illegal marina and to bring up the
zoning districts when the Zoning Board has determined that
even though it's in a residential district it's pre-existing
and nonconforming, all the zoning issues are gone; they're
not before you.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Did you say you had a copy of that?
MR. PASCA: I actually have a few sets, these are all just
decisions from the courts, the decision from the Zoning
Board, it's part of this. There's three sets of them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MR. PASCA: The determination of the Zoning Board is in
there; the determination by Judge Loughlin, who upheld the
Zoning Board's decision is in there; there are some
decisions by Judge Catterson, who upheld the easement area,
for example.
MR. JOHNSTON: Anthony, for the record, would you just state
what you just gave us?
MR. PA$CA: I gave you there's a decision dated April 14th
from Judge Loughlin, caption Mary S. Zupa a.qainst Zonin,q
Board of Appeals, that is the decision in the Article 78
that upheld the Zoning Board's decision; there's the
decision by the Honorable James Catterson, that was his
decision on the trial that took place regarding the easement
areas and the prescriptive easement; there's an August 2,
2004 decision of the Zoning Board, that's the decision in
which the Zoning Board found this to be a legal
pre-existing, nonconforming marina; judgment from James
Catterson also, and I think that's it, and that was the
judgment that dismissed a prior action that the Zupas had
started to try to declare this an illegal marina.
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Board of Trustees 63 May 18, 2005
MR. JOHNSTON: So you gave us four things?
MR. PASCA: Yes, four separately stapled things.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I just wasn't clear on what it was.
MR. P^SC^: For now that's what it is, but I would like a
chance to review what has been submitted to you and respond
to it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If there's no further comment--
MS. MESIANO: I'd just like to -- this was intended for you,
the memorandum and that copy was for another party, I'd just
like to swap. The photographs are different, there's color
here and so that memorandum, if I could swap with you.
MR. BRESSLER: For the sake of documentary completeness, I
note that, of course, not all the relevant decisions were
handed up and apropos my comments earlier, this is a decision
from Judge Catterson, short form order, dated May 6, 2004,
which I think is relevant to this pre-existing issue. But
the long and short of it is (A) that will be the subject of
an appeal if, as and when an order was entered; and (B) as
the president correctly pointed out, nothing that the Zoning
Board could determine is going to affect this Board's
jurisdiction to decide the issues before it on the basis of
its statutory mandate.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MR. BRESSLER: With that we'll see what the future brings.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Comments?
MR. MILLER: My name is James Miller, 1610 Paradise Point
Road. This application should be turned down on four
reasons at least. The applicants come before this Board
with unclean hands. The applicant has maintained a marina
in a residentially zoned area without permits from the DEC,
the Trustees and contrary to local zoning. The applicant
has violated the permitting process for so long they now
believe they have the right to continue violating the law;
and in addition, they now claim ownership of the Trustees'
bay bottom over all others, and yet there is no record of
the Trustees giving or selling this bay bottom. This is
nothing more than a blatant land grant. This applicant has
no standing to file this application. They have no riparian
rights and they are not the adjacent landowners. If this
permit were granted it would allow a dock to be built in
someone else's property in front of it. Thank you very
much.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Anyone else?
MR. JOHNSTON: Did you want to say the last thing in that
sentence?
MR. MILLER: This is a dangerous precedent.
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Board of Trustees 64 May 18, 2005
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If there's no other comment, I'll make a
motion to table this headng upon further review and the
applicant's submission of more information.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES
(Time ended 10:55 p.m.)
RECEIVED
8EP 9 2005
64