HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-05/19/1966 APPEAL BOARD
MEMBERS
Robert '~. Gillispie, Jr., Chairman
Robert BerBen
Charles GreBonis, Jr.
SerBe Doyen, Jr.
Fred Hulse, Jr.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
SOUTHOLD, L. l~, N. Y.
Telephone SO 5-9660
MINUTES
~OUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
May 19, 1~66
A regular meeting of the Sou%hold Town Board of Appeals
was held at 7:30 PM, on Thursday,. May 19~ 1966~ at the Town
Office~ Main Road, Southold~ New York.
There were present: Messrs. Robert W. Gillispie, Jr.~
Chairman; Fred Hulse~ Jr.~ Charles Grigonis~ Jr.
Absent:Mr. Serge Doyen~ Jr., and Mr. Robert Bergen°
PUBLIC P~ARING: Appeal No. 843 ~ 7:30 P.M. ~E.S.T.~ Upon
application of PeterSledjeski, Main Rmad~ Orient~. New York~
for a special exception in accordance with the Zoning Ordinance,
Article X,.Section 1003A,. for permission to renew~a farm labor
camp permit that was grantedMay 13, 1965. Location of property:
south side Route 25 Orient, New York~ bounded north by Main
east by J. B. Droskoski, south by Jo Tuthill and J. Dyer~ west
by J. Tu~hill and J. Dyer. Fee paid $5.00.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a special exception~ legal notice of hearing~ affidavit
attestisng to its publication in the official newspap~r~.and
notice to the applicant.
Southold Town Board of Appeals ~2~
May 19~ 1966
T~R CHAIN: Is there~anyone present at this time who
wishes-to speak for-this application?
MRS. PETER.SLEDJESKI: Ye~ I do.
T~. CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone against t/~is application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Since there will be no changes in the camp...
MRS. SLEDJESKI: There will be only four men this year- he
had about six-or eight last year.
CHAIRMAN: Same quarters?
MRS. SLEDJESKI: Yes.
After investigation and inspection the Board finds that
PeterSledjeski wishes to renew a farm labor-camp permit granted
~q~;~u,~= 11, 196~. The Board finds that there will be no changes
in the camp for the year of 1966. There haven't been any
complaints or objections to this camp being operated. The
Board feels that this camp is necessary to the operatorsince
the closing of the Greenport Labor Camp which used to house a
large number of laborers.
The Board finds that the public convenience and welfare
and justice wi~ be served and the legally established or
permitted use of neighborhood property and adjoining use
districts will not be permanently or substantially injured
and the spirit of theOrdinance will be observed.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie~ seconded by Mr. Hulse, it was
P~SOLVED that PeterSledjeski~ Main~Road~ Orient~ New York~
be grante~ P~S~on&~%~renew a farm labor camp permit that
was granted~~ on property 10catedsouth side Route
25,. Orient,. New York. This permit is granted forone (T)~ year.
PUBIJC ~RA~ING: Appeal No. 844 - 7:40 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)~
Upon application of Southold j Summer Theater, SoundviewAvenue,
Southold~ New York~ for a special exception in accordance with
the Zoning Ordinance~ Article IV A~ Section 420~ Subsection 2a~
for permission to operate a place of amusement. Locationof
Southold Town B6a~dof Appeals
--3-
May 19~1966
property: north side Soundview Avenue, Southold~ New York~
bounded north by Great Pond, east by Douglass J. Currie~ south
bySoundview Avenue~ west by Florence-Kramer and Ano. Fee
paid $5.00.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a-special exception~ legal notice of hearing, affidavid
attesting to its publication in the official newspaper~ and
notice to the applicant.
The Chairman also read a statement of the plans and
objectives of the Southold Summer Theater.
TME CHAIRM~N: We have received a number of communications
in connection with this. CThe Chairman reada letter from Mr.
and Mrs. James S. Murray~ Soundview Ave.~.Kennyes Road~. Southold~
New York; a letter from F. F. Cobet~ Kenny*s Road, Southold~. New
York; and telegrams from Mr. and.Mrs.-G. M, Tisdale~ Vincent F.
Carnagie, and Ernest Gibson. These communications were all
opposed to the summer theater at this location.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone here who wishes to speak
for this application?
MRS. BE~t%Y LYTT~: I may be out of order, but on the advice
of counsel-I was advised to ask, before you.proceed~ for an
adjournment.
THE CHAIRMAN: On what grounds?
MRS. LYTT~: We are fully aware you have met legal requirements,
but the area in general is populated - or property owned by people
who are only here weekends until summertime ~nd who are not fully
aware of what is going on, and that they may have time to learn
about it'and express their opinions, either for or against.
THE CHAIRMAN: I appreciate your position. In fact~ it's
happened before -- it doesn't make ~uch difference whether you
schedule it at one time or another - youwon~t please everyone.
So, we have always proceded on the theory that as long as we
have met the legal requirements we proceed with the hearing.
It's only fair to the applicant.
MRS. LYTLE: We have people who live out of the area..
Southold Town Board of Appeals -4-
M~y 195 1966
THE CHAIRMAN: Thatis frequently the case. I'm afraid
I~ll have to deny your request.
MR, TOM PEPP: I think we should straighten this thing out
tonight. ..
THE CHAI~: That's the purpose of the hearing. I have
asked before both/you spoke to hear from anyone for?
of
Ml%. BAR~Y-~MALLiN: (Southold ~ummer Theater.) It is my
understanding that the site we are planning to use-was originally
used as a restaurant and an inn a number of years ago so that
this would not be the first ~ime this property would be used in
this fashion. It received a non-conformkng zoning permit pre-
viously. We are'planning to operate three nights a week -
this would be for an adult audience of 200 people - it is my
belief that-an audience of this size and of adults would not
create a disturbance in the area. What the theater will give
to Southold far outweighs any problems that may result~ from
cars coming into the area. I think that Southold is a growing
area - I think it's an ~rea that more and more people are
coming to know - more and more summer people are recognizing
the appeal of the area and feel it*s a godd place for the
summer~ and I think a theater here would provide permanent
residents and summerresidents with a place to go for the
evening - where we can present good theater. We are a group
of young people. My wife used to spend summers=in.Southold.
We know the area and a lot of the people here. We are bringing
in a director who teaches in a high school~onLong Island. He
has worked with 'young people - He will provide the theater with
outstanding plays. We are starting the first year.on a modest
level. We are fully aware of our responsibilities in operating
a project.of this sort,~ and for these reasons I feel that
Southold will gain from the benefits of a theater and the
people and residents here will be able to simply enjoy themselves
for an evening's'entertainment.
MR. BIT~ SCREA~TZ: Concerning the noise problem$~ I think
certainly during the show with the people in the theater it
doesh~t constitute a tremendous amount of noise - the theater
is sufficiently isolated - quite far from the nearest house.
It'sLset back quite far from the road and our performance only
lasts'about two and a half hours - a parking attendant will
direct the cars out - we don~t anticipate a gn~eat problem.
People come to the theater in large groups - it may be 50 cars.
Southold To~n B6~rd of Appeals
-5-
~ay 19~ 1966
MR..SAM ZAP:Our intention is not to push ourselves upon
the community. We®re only here attempting to start the theater.
People thinkvery~highly of this idea - I'm only sorry that
these people are not here this evening. We have evidence on
the other side and I would be tempted to be disappointedw but
I knowthat people not here this evening - that the response
is one of recommendation.
THE CHA~: Would you care to go into more detail? As
to how many people?
MR. MA~.LIN: Mjr.~Albertson, and I spoke to Bob Witherspoon,
Mr. Lefine~ Mr. Rothmann - these are some of the people that we
have contacted and spoken to about thetheater and we have
written letters to the Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce,
Mr. Hulse, and we go by a very enthusiastic le~r from him -
thought it w~s a fine idea.
MR. ZAP:.People from the North Fork Community Theater have
given complete support. They have asked us to speak before
their next production...
· HE CHAIRMAn: Are you gentlemen summer residents of the
area?
MI{. MAT.?,IN: My wife as a child used to spend her summers
here. Not at the moment we are not.
MR. PEPP: Are these folks asking for a permit of non-
conformity or a change of zone?
THE CHAIPJEAN: Where the district is zoned business~ the
Board of Appeals may grant a special exception permitting
activities which are primarily concerned with amusement - that
-would include several things. Prior use of this property - it
was a bar and restaurant principally before zoning~ I believe.
The use~ I believe~ w~s zoned non-conforming at the time of the
Ordinance. When the Town was zoned originally~ the various
uses that appeared business were made into business areas...
M~. PEPP: If this property hasn't been used for two years,
it reve2ts back-to residential property.
THE CHAIRMAN: The non-conforming use expires - I believe
this property~ras zoned "B" so it would not expire.
~General discussion followed as to whether or not this
property were zoned business or not.)
Southold Town Board of Appeals
May 19t 1966
TMR, CHAIRM~N: Anyone to speak for?
MR. HULSE: I have a-question. Do you plan on serving re-
freshme~ts~
MR. MALT.IN: Soft drinks - Coke.
MR. HULSE: No liquor license?
MR. MALLIN: No.
THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone else for? Anyone present who wishes
to speak against this application?-
MRS. LYTLE: I speak also for Mr. Tisdale and Mro Cobet.
The area~immediately around the property in question is resi-
dential and the top-class waterfront p~operty, top tax rate.
If there is any hardship to be considered, it is a hardship on
the people living in that area - the road is not~uilt for heavy
traffic, too hilly~ too bumpy. We will have a policing problem
as wellas traffic. The parking of the cars is something one
never expects to find in a residentialarea when you buy property
in a residential area. The people right across the way are
going to have continual traffic. The very fact that these
people are ~not here to speak or not aware of itt shows that
they come out here to get away from a lot of activity. We are
looking for peace and quiet and have paid top prices and top
taxes for it. Your greatest problem will be the traffic on that
road.and your problem with the police. There are also many
questions in our mind as to just how this theater is going to
be run. There are statements made here tonight, yet there are
prepared statements that are entirely different than have been
made here. If you want to make it a matter of record~ I will
submit a brochure which I hold which talks about an "outdoor"
theater and the building is for living purposes, so you must
meet certain ordinance requirements for living, and a theater
outdoors anywhere in that lake area X - anyone isgoing to hear
a performance whether they want to or not. The brochure says
four nights a week. One of the last things we want in a nice
residential area where people pay high taxes is the loss of
quiet.
The building, I admit, was in its time used verynicely
for'a restaurant, but it has gone downhill just from non-use
and if this theater comes inand, unfortunately, does not make
a success - what will be our problem at the end of the first
season? The people are not going to have privacy. I think the
Southold To~n Board of Appeals
-7- May.19~: 1966
biggest thing is still the traffic which will bring in the
accident problem.
THE CHA~: Anything else~ ~irs. Lytel? This brochure
you mentioned was published by the applicant?
MRS. LTTT~: Yes~ it is. Their announcement was in the
paper prior to.the hearing. It may be all perfectly all right~
but people in the area feel a little uneasy as to what might
happen. X
~HE CHAIRMAN: Would you suppose that that is the real
question in the minds of the people you represent? The type
of activity?
MR. LYTr~: A theater'at all.
~ CHJk~: Is there anyone else who wishes to speak
against?
MR. PEPP: About two years ago Dan Smith applied for a
zoning of land he owned on the other?side of Great Pond. He
was turned down because he.as told that there would be too
much traffic off Kenny's Road. If there was too much traffic
on Kenny~s Road~ this Soundview Avenue would certainly be a
death trap.
MR. DAN SMITH: We applied for a rezoning for anultiple
residence. We were turned down because the people came here
and said there would be a lot of traffic. We were turned down
on a multiple residence and I think it unfair that we were
turned down and then let someone have a business in the same
area.
T~M, CHAIRMAn: The chief reason was traffic?
MR. SMITH: Right.
THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone else?
Mi{. AL VONH~SSEL: I'm just openly opposed to anything
other than residential in this area.=
(The question ~as brought up by Mr. Yon Hassel as to
who the C"Mr. Hulse" referred to~M. Fir; Mallin was. He was
assured that it was not the same Mr. Hulse presently serving
on the Board of A~peals.)
Southold Town Board of Appeals -8- 1
May 19, 1966
The question w~s raised by Mrs. John Buck as to what would
take place there on the other four nights when the theater was
not in operation. Mr. Mllin assured~the meeting that the cast
would rehearse and live off the premises and that no youth
activities would be held in the buildingS' on the nights when
there were no shows.
THE CHA~: kuyone else to speak against?
reply. )
In the interest of clarification and in order to be somewhat
constructive, does anyone recall where some of the other summer
theaters are located? (Replies indicated that all summer theaters
seemed to be in more ~usiness-ltype areas than the one proposed.)
May we give an opporltunity to the applicants to answer questions
~hat may have beenasked here?
MI{. MALLIN: On the question of the brochure. This was
writtenlabout eight or nine months ago. Since that time we
have obtained a director and spoken to him about using a
theater and he thought it would be best to go indoors and he
would be presenting people he has worked with from Long Island
and many of the things in the brochure are outdated. We said
four nights-- it~will be three nights.
TMM. CHAI~:Does that answer your question?
MRS. LYTLE: Why did you plan and put money in something
and not even know if you were going to get permission to do it?
It raises a peculiar question in my mind.
Mi{. MALLIN: Lights and seats are being donated to us. We
will not pay salaries. (Mr. Mallin explained that with an
operation such as thisXkthey would have had to go ahead and make
plans because they could not wait until the last minute to set
everything up.)
MR~.~LYTLE: ~Mrs. Lytle showed the Board a clipping from
SNewsday" of the previous day announcing the opening of a
summer theater inSouthold.) "Newsday" was not happy about
being called on it.
~. MALLIN: I apologize if I gave them that prematurely.
In talking to different people in the Town they told us that
~t~ey had no control over the Board of Appeals as far as your
decision on these various things ....
$outhold Town Board of~Appea!s -9- May 19, 1966
THE CHAIRMAN: You gave "Newsday"'a release?
Mi{o. MALLIN: That is true. We felt we had to create
enthusiasm for the theater in order'to develop an audience.
When we spoke to various individuals in Southold we met only
with enthusiastic-response and this is'why we went'ahead~' and
it comes as a great, surprise that there is opposition to the
theater.
THE, CHAIRMAN: It surprises me that a law student would
jump the gun and announce the theater.
M~. ZAP: I think the three of us are a little unfamiliar
with the workings of local government. We apologize if we -
we didn't mean for this to come out in this man~er. We didn't
realize that this was going against the wishes of the Board.
THE CHAIRMAN: It just happens we are charged with the job
of determining v~riances and exceptions to the Zoning .Ordinance
which has been passed and which is sometimes enforced. The
best enforcement, perhaps, is whether or not something is
granted in the first place. That's~why we're here tonight.
M~. MALLIN: May I say anything about the traffic problem?
I think there may be some misunderstandings about the amount of
traffic. There will be 50 or 60 cars coming in an hour before
the show and the same amount leaving between 11:00 and 12:00.
This is not at the time people come to the beach amd we will
have attendants seeing that the cars are properly ledout of
the parking area.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't think that is the concern - what
happens before and after they get there.
Mi{. MALLIN: These people will be adults who are respon-
sible citimens. This is not a honky-tonk bar - no liquor will
be served on the premises. People who are mindful of their
responsibilities - not a lot of young people.
THE CHAIRMAN: ~Read "Free acting for children" from the
brochure.) What is the explanation of that?
MR. MALLIN: That would be carried on during the day, sort
of a part time day camp if any youngsters in the area were
interested in participating in drama classes and working on a
S~outhold Town Board of Appeals
-10-
May 19~ 1966
play - we wou~d have people working with them.
MR. ZAP: This would be only a community service. We would
only do~it if the community ~ranted it. We're trying to make
the point that we want to be as helpful as we can.
THE CHA~: What is your previous experience with this
type of operation? Where? What success have you had?
M~. MALLIN: We don't have any direct experience ourselves.
We have obtained a director who has operated theaters himself.
He has had production experience - acting experience. He is
the one that is guiding us in this project.
CHAIRMAN: Where would your r~hearsals occur?
MR. MALLIN: He would use his school. He brings his people
together on the Island.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is this a reperatory group?
MR. MALLIN: Yes. People with full time jobs on Long Island
such as~teachers, radio people, etc.
THE C~AIRMAN: It is a group that has operated in the past?
MR. MALLIN: He has used the~e people in other projects.
THE CHAIRMAN: You plan to serve no meals?
MR. MALLIN: No.
THE CHAIRMAN: What happens to the money?
MR. MALLIN: Most of the money will be going for operating
expenses. Atlthe end of the summer we will be giving the
Reiter's a percentage for rent~ the director will get a percentage
and the rest of the money will be going into publicilty, royalties,
etc.
THE CHAIRMAN: How many on the Board of Directors?
MR. MALLIN: Five. The money goes to the cast if the~e is
any left.
THE CHAIRMAN: Open end percentages?
Southeld Town Bo~d
.or,Appeals -11- May 19, i966
MR. MALLIN: 10% to Reiter, 10% to the director, and the
rest to expenses. If we are successful we would take in a gross
of $16,000 for the summer. From $2.25 to $3.25 a ticket.
THE CHAIN: Anyone else?
MRS. LYTLE: We would like to say one more thing. If you
should vote favorably on their application, we would ask that
you grant the variance or permit~ or whatever you lmay call it,
for one season only and you will be in a position to know for
sure, if you have granted it, whether it is detrimental and you
will be in a position to withdraw it.
THE CHAIRMA/~: There is one other point - I don't know whether
you have considered it - the question of signs. I presume you
would w~nt a number of directional signs. (Mr. Mallin agreed with
this.) Anything else?
(The traffic problem discussed again at length.)
THE. CHAIRMAN: The problem of noise - will these be musicals?
MR. MAiSLIN: No, dramas. Just voices - no loud music.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? If not, we will close
the hearing and the Board will consider..
MP~.LYTLE: You will not consider a continuance?
THE CHAIRMAN: Actually a public hearing is'a place where
you solicit info£mation and not opinions. I think we have a
100% representation of opinion against this project and to
postpone further consideration inorder to give others a chance
to speak wouldlsimply augment what we have. No one here is
against summer theaters per se - you are against it because of
other reasons. I believe that sums it up.
MRS. JOHN BUCK: Would the value of the property be affected?
THE CHAIRMAN: I believe it would. My own opinion is that a
suzL~Ler theater would be desirable but this is the wrong place for
it. However, we'll go into more detail before making a decision.
The other~embers of the Board may not feel the same way. The
meeting is now closed.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-12-
May 19, 1966
The following residents from the Soundview Avenue-Kenny's Road
area appeare~ before the Board in opposition to the summer
theater in this location for the reasons previously stated -
traffic hazaz~ds~ noise, residential area. They had no objection
to a su~er theater in Southold - just not in this area.
M~. TO$ PEPP
M/kS. HAZEL PEPP
MRS o_ELEANOR SHRIEFER
MRS. JOHN BUCK
JOHN BUCK
ROBERT FF~THERSTON-HAUGH
BITTER
Telegrams were also received fromM/%. A~THUR BROWN~ and MI{.
VINCENT SARDI in opposition to the theater in this location.
After investigation and inspection the Board finds that
the area is unsuitable for a summer theater. It is the Board's
belief that the establishment of a theater in this loc~Lion such
aswas described would inevitably change the character of the
neighborhood during the summer months. Too, that the traffic
problem which is already severe in the area during this time
of the year will be considerably increased and a real danger
exists of traffic accidents caused by an unusual flow of
~raffic during the evening. Neither Kenny's Road nor Soundview
Avenue have any street lights in this vicinity. Prox.imity to
a summer camp argues against this location for a summer theater.
There is also a Town Beach several hundred yards away whichis in
constant use during the summer months.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie~ seconded by'Mr. Hulse~ it was
RESOLVED that Southold Summer Theater be denied a special
exception to operate a summer theater in the building known as
Lake Lodge ~n property located on the north side of Soundview
Avenue, Southold~ New York, bounded north by Great Pond~ east
by Douglass J. Currie, south by Soundview Avenue~ west by
Florence Kramer and Ano.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Mr. Gillispie, Mr. Hulse, Mr.
Grigonis.
Mr. and Mrs. Stuart Anderson, 22 Sea Cliff Avenue, Sea
Cliff, New York, appeared informally before the Board to
submit an application for a special exception and to ask
advice as to what steps were necessary. They were advised
that there would be a notice in the local pap. er and they
would receive a copy of that notice 1 and should appear at the
time of the hearing.
Southold Town Board of A~pealsl =13- 1 May 19~ 1966
On motion by. Mr. Gillispie~ seconded by Mr. Hulse, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals set 7:30 PM,
CE.D.S.T.), Thursday, June 2, 1966, at the Town Office~ Main Road,
Southold~. New York, as the time and place of hearing upon applica-
tion ~X of Miriam and Stuart P. Anderson, 22 Sea'Cliff Avenue~
Sea Cliff, New York, for a special exception in accordance with
the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 300, Subsection 5a,
for permission to convert a building into a two family dwelling.
LocatiOn of property: west side Bay Avenue, East Marion, New
York,' bounded north by Novak, east by Bay Avenue, south by
Thiel~ west by Washburn.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Mr. Gillispie, Mr. Hulse, Mr.
Grigonis.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie~ seconded by Mr. Grigonis~ it was
RESOLVED that the SoUthold Town Board of Appeals set 7:45 PM,
(E.d.S.T.), Thursday, ~une 2, 1966, at the JTown Office, Main
Road, Southold, New York, as the time and place of hearing upon
application of A. A. Cooke, Nassau Point Road, Cutchogue~ New
York~ for a variance in accordance with the Zoning Ordinance,
Article III, Section 300k subsection 6, for permission to locate
an accessory building in the front yard area. Location of
property: east side of a private right of lway off the south side
of Nassau Point Road, lot no~ south ½ of 82, all of lot No. 82A
and 82B in the Nassau Point Club Properties, Inc., Cutchogue~
New York.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Mr. Gillispie, Mr. Hulses Mr.
Grigonis.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie~ seconded by Mr. Hulse~ it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals set 8:00 PM,
~E.D.S.T.~ Thursday, June 2, 1966, at the Town Offices Main Roads
Southolds New York& as the time and place of hearing upon applica-
tion of John Drossos~ Main Roads Greenport, New York, for a special
exception in accordance with the Zoning Ordinance, Article IV,
Section 408, subs~ion ~ for pe£mission to erect a wall sign.
Location of property: North side Main Road, Arshamomaque, New
York~ bounded north by John Rempe, east by Long Island Lighting
Co., south by'Main Road, west by A. Drossos.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-14- May 19t 1966
Vote of the Board: ALyes: - Fir. Gillispie, Mr. Hulse~ Mr.
Grigonis.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by'Mr. Hulse, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board .of Appeals set~z~
~ 8:~0 PM (E.D.S.T.), Thursdayt~ June 2,' 1966, at the Town
Office~ Main Road~ Southold~ New York, as the time and place of
hearing upon application of Lilli N. Woersdoerfer~ Main Road~
East Marion~ New York~ for a variance in accordance with the
Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 300, Subsection 1~ for
permission to expand a non-conforming use. Location.of property:
not-th side~lMain Road, East Marion, New York, bounded nort~ by
Dzenkowski, east by A. Malanauskis, south byMain Road, west by
A. Dzenkowski.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Mr. Gillispie, Mr. Hulse~ Mr.
Grigonis.
The next meeting of the Southold Town Board of Appeals
will be held on Thursday~ February 10~ 1966, at 7:30 PM at the
Town Office, Main Road, So~thold~ New York.
The meeting was adjourned at 10:30 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Janet G. McLean, Actlng Secretary
Southold Town Board of Appeals