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HomeMy WebLinkAboutDGEIS PH 7/08/03 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK TOWN OP SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD MEETING Southold Town Hall 53095 Main Road Southold, New York July 8, 2003 4:30 p.m. Board Members JOSHUA Y. THOMAS H. Present HORTON, Supervisor WICKHAM, Councilman LOUISA EVANS, JOHN M. ROMANELLI, WILLIAM D. MOORE, CRAIG A. RICHTER, GREGORY F. YAKABOSKI, ELIZABETH A. NEVILLE, Justice/Councilwoman Councilman Councilman Councilman Town Attorney Town Clerk COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mr. Meineke. MR. MEINEKE: Thank you Josh. Howard Meineke, President of North Fork Environmental Council and resident of Cutchogue. I want to repeat just one more time what we would like to see when we come out of the DGEIS discussion: The clustered conservation upzoning currently under discussion, it will achieve 80 percent land preservation and 60 percent reduction in density, which was what the Blue Ribbon Commission unanimously agreed we wanted to accomplish. And take note, there will be no mansions on five acres as a result of this. Now that, at this point, we would have thought was common knowledge. Now I'm looking at an advertisement here. It shows a road plugged up with contractors, pick up trucks and it says, If you think that five acre zoning will preserve Southold Town, we hope you like parades. Five acre zoning will make the trade parade a way of life in Southold Town. Housing prices will skyrocket, McMansions will increase the demand for tradespeople who won't be able to afford to call Southold home. Okay. Now, here we have an advertisement. It shows the road being plugged up and these antiupzoning folks must think Southolders are crazy. They must think we're stupid, because they're paying for an ad to make the point with a program that will build 60 percent fewer homes than we're currently building under two acre zoning. We're then going to get disastrous trade parade, and we're going to tie up our roads. I think it's ludicrous and I think it's insulting to the people of Southold. Now, in here there has been an argument that came up earlier thaE the landewners were going te disastrously lese land value. Now it weuld appear te me that heusing prices will skyrecket, the foundation to heusing price is land price. The land is being beught frem the landewners; se I have treuble believing that eut of one side ef their mouths they say the landowners take a COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE {631) 878 8047 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 13 11 12 1 il 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 tremendous hit in equity when prices are going to skyrocket and drive up housing prices. We're not that stupid folks. We're not. It just seems to me that this applies - Melanie spoke that it wasn't everyone's God given right to buy a house here. Now the contractors that are working here and a lot of houses as I see it, seem to come and go, and many of them live here. Now Melanie is right, they don't have a God given right to be here, and we do need the other types of affordable housing, but this is definitely one of those emotional heart string ads that is set in quicksand. Now, in the 1850s there was a political party, and they served for a while and had some success, and they were - for you history buffs -- were known as the "Nothings., Now this advertisement makes me think that this is possibly a reincarnation of that party. Now, I don't think we in Southold want to let the debate get to this level. This ad was run, there is not a fact here that's true. It's just being run to get people riled up and try to suck people into one side of the debate who don't think about it, and that does not help the debate, and that's why Melanie said we should stop the debate and get on with business and I think so too. Thank you. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Thank you, Mr. Meineke. Mr. Penny. You're more than welcome to address the board on the DGEIS, I think that's what I see in your hands. MR. PENNY: George Penny from Southold. I'm not here to join the great debate. We've already enacted five acre zoning in the last master plan. This was done in Orient, and it survives today. Sc five acre zoning is a planning tool. Is it the answer for the entire Town? That's something that we're going to have to talk about. Let's start with maps. I called the Town Clerk's office about two weeks ago and tried to get ~ local zoning map, an update. I have an old one from the last master plan. I was told that these COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 maps have not this true? DGEIS? maps off of statement. DGEIS, but GIS system. zoning map. so. been updated in two years; is SUPERVISOR HORTON: Yes. MR. PENNY: What maps are in the SUPERVISOR HORTON: Those would be the -- MR. YAKABOSKI: It's not a true Well, the series of maps in the as for the zoning -- MR. PENNY: Current zoning maps. SUPERVISOR HORTON: It's on the MR. PENNY: It's the current SUPERVISOR HORTON: I believe MR. PENNY: Why are not copies available at the Town Clerk's office for anybody that wants to buy them? MR. YAKABOSKI: There is an answer here that's not going to satisfy your question, okay. One thing that's being done right now on Thursday, there is a meeting between one of the assistant Town attorneys and somebody else who's adopting putting the zoning map on the -- switching it so that the one on the GIS system is the official zoning map. Once that's done which I think there's going to be a public hearing scheduled shortly, hopefully next two or three weeks and that would be coming out. MR. PENNY: I'm sorry, you're addressing switching a map in the DGEIS? MR. YAKABOSKI: No, putting an official zoning map on the GIS system. It is a correct -- the one that's in there is a correct representation to the best of our knowledge of the zoning code - excuse me, zoning district designation of the Town of Southold. HR. PENNY: How can anyone tell, judging by the size ef that map whether it's correct or not? MR. YAKABOSKI: What do you want? HR. ROMANELLI: What are you asking for, a bigger map, a larger map? MR. PENNY:. Normally maps are COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 5 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 ll_ 12 ii 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 available to the public on request, current zoning maps, land use maps, overlay maps, all of the maps that are missing from this particular study, which include current zoning, proposed zoning, overlay districts, hamlet breakdowns, proposed areas for HALO zones, I find absolutely none of that in here, and if it was in there, you can't see it. The map is about that big, as I recall, and you can't tell. MR. ROMANELLI: You have both copies or just the one copy? MR. PENNY: Excuse me? MR. ROMANELLI: You have both copies? hamlet? MR. PENNY: Yes. I reviewed the maps. I cannot tell from the color codes, there are no color codes in there. It's all in various hamlet maps. MR. ROMANELLI: The hamlet map, the HALO zone, and the hamlet map, you can't read that one? MR. PENNY: No. I don't know how you can. The thing's only this big, and it's for the entire Town. There should be a big map out here for the public to see what's going on. HR. ROMANELLI: No. No there's one for each hamlet. There's a map for each hamlet. There's a map for each hamlet. MR. PENNY: There's a map for each MR. ROMANELLI: Yes. MR. PENNY: Okay, maybe I misspoke. But you're talking about hamlet breakdowns. You're talking about moving things into the hamlets. I think areas should be designated on maps to show what, where these receiving areas are going to be. Also as far as TDRs, there are no accepting zones created and there are no receiving zones created, and the public should know what's coming. I mean, from whau's in here, they can't tell. Just got to get te the right paper clip here, one sec. Regarding the SEQRA process, I've been told by two councilmen that this is only an environmental study, yet, if I find the COUNT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631} 878 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 page here, on Page 1-2, it says with respect to SEQRA procedures Part 617.10D states, "When the final Generic GEIS has been filed under this Part 1, no further SEQRA compliance is required if a subsequent proposed action will be carried out in conformance with the conditions and thresholds established for such actions in the Generic EIS or its findings statements. That means that the Town Board can go carte blanche. You don't have to hold a whole other series of things. You can take all of the ifs, all of the ands, all of the maybes and adopt any one of them at any time. I don't believe that statement is true. BOARD MEMBER: You're right. MR. PENNY: Yet it says it here on Page 1-2 BOARD MEMBER: You have to have public hearings on the proposed local laws, TDRs. MR. PENNY: I know that. BOARD MEMBER: That's not what that's saying. It's simply referring to the environmental review process. This is a umbrella document. Basically what it's saying is that -- MR. PENNY: You're telling the public that this is only an environmental hearing? BOARD MEMBER: Right. MR. PENNY: But this is giving you the authority to move ahead in any direction you choose, and I believe that when you go back into the far end of this - which we'll reach in a little while -- and you hit the Chinese menu, I don't think any of you up there know which of these things you're going to pick or which you're not going to pick. And I don't feel that this document covers the multitude of varieties of combinations of different planning attempts that you're going to make in any way, manner, shape or form, but any -- voice: But any code change that does happen - let's be clear about that there is public input. There's public hearings. COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE :1631) 878-8047 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. PENNY: That's not what I'm questioning. I'm questioning full SEQRA compliance. And this document here says that none will be required. I think that that should be addressed. Okay. This is in the very beginning page, S-2. The seeie economic issues largely center around the need for affordable housing and a stable tax base. And stem largely from the fact that Seutheld's economic is presently a seasonal one based en agriculture, marine industries, tourism and retirement homes. Town businesses, including agricultural enterprises, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, the key word here is socie-ecenomic issues, I cannot find in this document where these are addressed. As a matter ef fact, when you get te the issue of land values, in the pages it says that it's net a part ef SEQRA te evaluate the rate ef return a farmer will get en his land. That's the only disclaimer, the rest are completely absent. Se, if you're going te address socio-economic issues, such as all of the young people having to either inherit something or doing illegal rentals somewhere er traveling from out of town, that is a socio-economic issue as far as I'm concerned. None of that is addressed in this document. The proposed action considers implementing the planning and program tools and measures recommended in the planning studies undertaken within the Town in the past 20 years. These studies and recommendations and plans were reviewed in terms of current Town needs and goals. Host ef these studies in the past were shelved for eno reason er another by various Town boards, some ef you people are sitting right there, arid the beard that I sat en are eno of them. So why you would hinge the future of Southeld Town ena bunch ef reports that the Town never adopted and held less dearly to one that the Town did adopt, which is the Town Master Plan is beyond me. I mean, you're quoting these things. They're listed in here as a way to save the Town, and they were discarded in the past. The goals. Very laudable to CO[INT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTZON SERVICE (63]) 878~8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 preserve land including farmland, to preserve the rural culture or historic character of hamlets, preserve the Town's remaining natural environment, and to preserve and promote the range of housing and business opportunities, to increase traffic efficiency, et cetera. Very laudable. It's in the Master Plan, it's in the documents that already exist. Very little question with that. To preserve rural, cultural and historic character of the hamlets surrounding countryside. To preserve a range of housing and business opportunities; specific strategies. The ability of the Town residents to afford housing in their own Town is one of critical concern and importance. Nothing changed in the approach on affordable housing between the beginning of this document and the end of this document. It is very clear, as I will point out in later pages, that the writer of this document did not understand the Town's affordable housing program and how it works. And I will be very happy to reiterate because that's something we worked on back in the '8Os. The demographic analysis conducted on part of this DGEIS conforms to the housing needs identified ten years ago. It is clear the housing opportunities must be expanded for a variety of income level families. That's not done here. And affordable housing opportunities must be located geographically throughout the Town. The overlay district for that already exists within, I believe, it's a mile or half a mile of the hamlet centers. I mean, everybody that has the code book, all you have to do is pick it up and read it. Nobody's used it. Everybody ignores it for whatever reason I don't know, and this document doesn't understand it. The Town renews its commitment to provide diverse affordable housing opportunities throughout the Town. Policy considerations have been researched and compared as part of the CIS and part of a SEQRA process to allow for Board acceptance and public review. Sounds nice. There's nothing recommended in this that is any different than COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 8'78-8047 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 what is already existing. Following that up, amending affordable housing requirements and creating new incentives in connection with new subdivisions and changes of zones. Amending zoning to allow diversified Nousing stock, including small to moderate size units in condominiums and apartment styles, permitting mixed-use development within or adjacent to existing hamlets, identifying appropriate parcels where PDD can use the term with public funds, et cetera, et cetera. Consider density bonus for additional units that are provided as affordable housing, that does not appear in this document. Their proposals are in here as possibilities. Maybe we'll put in a HALO zone; maybe we'll PDR it somewhere, but this Town has absolutely no intent on using those. They haven't in the last 12 to 15 years. There has not been a new affordable housing project in this Town and there has been every effort on behalf of the Town Board to duck the issue. Maybe they're afraid they'll get voted out of office, we did. Did it hurt us any? No. We did it for the good of the Town. There are people that don't talk to me because I put affordable housing in their neighborhoods. So be it. Some of those kids in there work for us, a lot of them you know. There's a lot of talk about affordable housing in this Town, but the only talk that they ever mention is the one that sells it for profit. How about a survey of the ones that are still there? here s a lot of them. The}, work all T ' over this Town, and you know what they say, if we got $300,000 for this Town - for this house, we'd have to leave it, leave the Town 'cause we can't replace it. So what good is it? And most of the HD zones were depleted back in the '90s, which allowed for affordable housing. One of them in Greenport which became quote/unquote "controversial.,~ The Kontokostka change of zone HD 20 or 30 units, as I recall, of affordable housing. The Town Board required tNat as part of his change of zone, and he went along with COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 8?8-8047 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 10 it. Now that's been obliterated. So that's 20 or 30 units that could have appeared on the charts that would have helped. Ail you need is ten to 20 units a year for entry-level housing, and to me, so the Town could be taken care of but no board has touched it since '92. Page 1-19, Economic Development Plan proposed. That's the end of the economic study. It's proposed. Something we should do. The AC zone as originally envisioned on Page 1-21 was intended as a distinctly separate zone that would allow for the business of agriculture to take place while preventing incompatible residential development on prime agricultural soils. I got on the Board in 1985. We passed the Master Plan in 1989. There was absolutely no discussion during the time that I was on the Board about the commingling of the two zones. It was already done. So I can't speak to why it was done except for a conversation that I had with the Town attorney at that time who was Bob Tasker, who I spent many hours with going over what I had missed and getting caught up, and he said that no Town board since the inception of zoning had separated the two. So, when the Master Plan says this, they are accurate in what they're saying. When this comprehensive plans it, they're actually accurate in what they're saying, but then they don't tell you the whole story that no Town board to date has separated the two or intended to separate the two. So if it makes it sound like this is a goal of somebody's, well, it was a planning concept. Let's face it, it was a planning concept in '82; it was discarded by the Board in '83, end of story. Why is it coming up here? Would you tell us the story? It's only telling parts. Page 1 22, five acre upzoning. This seems to conflict with the farm and farmland protection strategy, the background studies and recommendations of the Town's 1985 Master Plan in that it does not recognize the unique nature of agricultural land and the incompatibility of active farmland with COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1~'! 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 residential uses. Now it's misquoted because now you're saying that in the Master Plan, which is right here (indicating), that that was still the intent, and it's not true. The intent, if you read this Master Plan, they had the same problems making decisions that you have today, is how to protect the farmland by clustering, by TDR, by County' programs, by Town programs, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So this on Page 1-22 is not true. RO and LB district review on Page 1-25, this gets into more than five acre zoning. We were not even close to talking about the five acre zoning. The intent of the comprehensive plan and zoning code was to permit limited - maybe they're talking about the Master Plan. I really think they should be quoting the Master Plan in any of these cases, when they're referring to something here because the comprehensive plan is this one, and this is not a plan. This is a side study that's in the works. The current code fails to do this. It does not establish appropriate parameters to insure the integrity of the hamlet centers. Further, the concept of the RO district has been undermined by a permissive home occupancy law that allows homeowners in residential districts to enjoy many of the benefits of hosting a business in a residential area with less of the restrictions in an RO district. A permissive home occupancy law, is that the next target without SEQRA? I mean, I'm standing here a survivor of the County Route 48 study. Okay, I read that document cover to cover. It had the same generalities, the same innuendos, the same references to things obscure that you wouldn't even think of, and all of a sudden the hammers came down so every word in this document should be treated as gospel, because if the Town is going to follow up on any aspect of this, we've got to know what's coming and you're not telling us. The LB District was intended to provide another form of transition between an intensely developed hamlet and general business area and agricultural land. The uses intended for this district were in keeping COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 12 with the rural character in terms of the level of traffic and physical appearance. The current code fails to do this. The LB district was created mainly for the County Route 48 businesses. If you looked at the zoning map at the end of the Master Plan, you would find that probably 80 to 90 percent of the LB zones were located on County Route 48. That was so they couldn't get into the general business community and there were a lot of services, businesses, put out there. So this is a fairly inaccurate statement. Hamlets were clearly defined, we put RO on either side extending out of the towns, away from the district barriers. We worked on what they called a concentric circle theory, which I think I saw mentioned somewhere, and it was perfect. It was perfect, and, true, it was changed and probably ought to be looked at because a lot of changes happened when that 48 thing came down, and not all of them were good ones when it came to the LB zones. They put LB zones in where they shouldn't be. They now allow restaurants in them, country inns, that type of stuff, and that was never intended for that. We were protecting the borders of the hamlets when we did what we did. The amendments to the HB district code also added the following list of permitted uses. Nothing big on that. AHD district review Page 1-26. The affordable housing district, AHD, does not create permanent supply of affordable dwelling units. Absolutely true. But it was never intended to. It was intended to be a stepping stone for people to move in, spend seven years and move on. Unfortunately, with the change in the economy, they can't afford to move on. So a lot of them are still there, and if, in fact, town boards had followed this theory and put in, like I said, the tel, er 20 units per year that could have been required and probably met the needs of the community almost town-wide, there would be no need for affordable housing today because people keep moving in, and if you create something that is permanent in affordable housing, it bas the potential te become a slum, because when the COURT REPORTING ~kND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 people realize at the end of the period when they have met all the requirements of the Town, and they take their money and run, God bless them, it's a starter house. It's a starter house. That's all it was meant to be. If you want permanent affordable house dwelling units, make them rentals, make them rentals, put somebody in charge of it. Make them a co-op or something where you know, I mean, any of these initiatives could be done, but there's been nothing done. Ail I hear is, oh, we'll put them in the big old two story houses here, people really don't need all that room anymore, maybe they can whack out part of it and give it to some poor young couple. That doesn't work. Everything by the time you get through getting trashed by the building department and the Suffolk County Department of Health Services, those things don't work. There are ways of doing it, but they don't show - but they don't appear in this document. Review of home occupancy restrictions. We spent a little time on that one. The home occupation law said the law should simply permit the running of a single person business out of a home where there is no retail, wholesale or customer traffic to and from the home. Outside of the baymen, that is true. It does not allow retail and it does not allow a constant flow' of customers. As far as hair salons go, doctors offices, which were already existing before this law, there are cases, but there is not a terrific amount of traffic under most of those. They existed before the home occupation law. The home occupation law, we covered the baymen, so the baymen could actually sell their scallops to somebody or somebody could pick them up at their house, or they could deliver them from their house, and the builders and others could work out of the house, and if there was any equipment around it was supposed to be screened. If that's not being done then that's a code enforcement problem, that's not a problem to change the law over. Or are you changing the law or aren't you changing the law? I mean, all it COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 says here is it's a problem, and the problem is whoever wrote this doesn't understand it because it clearly doesn't allow retail. An example, medical office, tradesmen or contractor uses have resulted in complaints. The nature of those complaints I would like to see in this document because if these complaints have come in, you don't have to give specific names or anything, but if you have a complaint of a specific nature and the Town enforcement officer, which you have an officer, an enforcement officer, is not enforcing the code, then there's something wrong, but that doesn't mean that you have to or not have to change the codes. There again, we don't know which way you're going to go on this. Reviewed the zoning map Page 1-29. The Town zoning map provides a legal structure on which the land use pattern of the community is structured maintaining a viable zoning framework essentially while insuring the future vision of Southold. Past studies have shown that the existing zoning in several areas of the Town may require review and modifications. These include, change the business zones along County Route 48. It says here that that was done, but then there's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven more areas that are just briefly touched on. The one that really got me was reduce and consolidate the industrial zones on Main Road west of Greenport. Can anybody tell me what that one is? Now I went to the map, I got the little map book. I paid the 25 bucks and I took it, got it from the Town Clerk, and I took it upstate over the weekend, and when I see industrial zone west of Greenport, I see my lumberyard. Am I being targeted again? Is this County Route 48 coming over to the Main Road now? I mean, nobody knows, but supposedly if you're going to put in here the points that need to be addressed, spell them out so the people can see what's coining because this is the type of stuff that was in the 48 study, and nobody knows unless they read it, review AHD zones in accordance with a COURT REPORTING /kND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 15 2 3 4 5 ¥ 7 8 10 1 i 12 13 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 new affordable housing plan. There is no new affordable housing plan. Review viability eventual controls and location of the RO district; what are the problems? Let's be specific. I mean, this document probably raises 500 questions that you guys can act on, without the public being aware of what those questions are, and that's not good planning. We spent four years going from hamlet to hamlet, maps, paraphernalia, the whole bit. We had sessions at the Mattituck high school, Southold high school, Greenport high school, East Marion, Orient. We went everywhere. We answered questions from the public and that was a Master Plan. That's planning. The public knew what was coming. Not everybody was happy, but we had a bipartisan Town board that passed that Master Plan. It was a bipartisan board. You know what that meant? The key word was compromise, everybody got a little and not everybody got what they wanted, but everybody got a little and everybody got some, and four people there might have been five, but I know there were four for sure because we required four, signed, you know, passed that document and that was a milestone, altkough it wasn't acknowledged by people in the years after; and it's still being briefly passed around now. It still is the document that stands behind this town. Rezone appropriate parcels along Mattituck Creek. Well, that was part of the 48 study again. Review liability dimensional controls and locations of LB districts, create watershed protection zone, Coordinate existing zones within hamlets with newly delineated hamlet barriers, which hasn't been done yet. So we don't have the hamlet boundaries, but we're going to coordinate existing zoning with it. Come on guys. TDRs. The approach proposed by Southold is to designate village or hamlet areas where more concentrated development would be encouraged. TDRs could then be used to create higher densities. Now you're going to wind up where I am on the other side of the COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 16 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 fence because the minute that the neighborhood sees when this is coming, higher density in their backyard, you're out, simple as that. But you're not telling them it's coming. Put it this way: You're alluding to the fact that it might come, but you're not presenting any maps or any details of where this is going to go. So how many vacant acres within the Town of Southold right here, right around us right here, can you put more housing and more business? BOARD MEMBER: Quite a number. MR. PENNY: Huh? BOARD MEMBER: Quite a number of acres. HR. PENNY: Why can't the public see? SUPERVISOR HORTON: I think the point you're raising is a good one, and I think that moving forward there's going to, I think without a doubt hands down there has to be a consensus building as well as information gathering and sharing process that this entire Board is going to have to undertake if this environmental review is passed and holds you up and then planning decisions are made forward from that. And I MR. PENNY: I can make a fairly callous statement now and say that the Board -- that what I've been told is that all this is a smoke screen for five acre zoning. I don't believe that the Board has any intention of acting on a lot of the initiatives in here, and most of these initiatives are good ones, but they're not being followed through and that makes me suspicious. BOARD MEMBER: I don't want to believe - I don't want to believe that this is a smoke screen for five acre zoning, and we're going to do everything we can to give full review and full weight to all the tools we have available to us as an elected body to plan for the future. MR. PENNY: Then do a master plan. Let's do it right and do a master plan. MR. ROMANELLI: George, you keep commenting, when is the public going to know, COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 1 17 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 [ i2 13 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 when is the public going to know. Well, you know, as you know because you've been in this seat, so you know how the process. You do know, and so let's just get it out on the table that this is a generic environmental study, and any plan for a hamlet density zone TDR plan transferring density to a certain area will be addressed through public hearings through meetings like this. You keep saying that the public's not going to know that tomorrow morning we're going to put on the books that we're going to have a transfer of development rights right here in Southold, but you know. MR. PENNY: You know what a Master Plan gives you. MR. ROM}2qELLI: But you know that anything that we're talking about that comes out of this to go further into a code change -- local laws change legislation requires the whole public hearing process. So let's don't elude the public that let's snap our fingers and make it happen. The public hearing process continues to go forward on any change that is suggested or talked about in that document. MR. PENNY: Who's going to follow this up? Heaven knows that may be whoever survives an election over this thing, you got the Town so polarized over five acre zoning what you're saying is if you're intending to use the bath water for something, let's not throw it out. Let's throw the whole thing in. Let's throw the whole mix in. Let's make it a Master Plan so the people know what's coming. That's what was done in 1983. I jumped on it in 1985, and we passed it in 1989, planning takes time. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Your point is well taken. MR. PENNY: Map. This talks. This gives you the ability te come and ge and wiggle and say, eh, yeah, we're going to de that later. Well, who says you're going te be here next year? SUPERVISOR HORTON: There are also portions -- I believe that there are ~lso portions ef this document I would think that COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE {631} 878 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 18 would require, just hypothetically speaking, Mr. Penny, say there was the Board's will, sometime within the next year -- MR. PENNY: What is the Boards's will? SUPERVISOR HORTON: May I finish? I think that if the Board were to adopt a TDR program and it cited a specific receiving area, a sending and receiving area, I think there would have to be further environmental review of that. I don't think that this environmental review is complete, and I also think that your point is well taken about reviewing all of the zoning districts in the town because if there are significant portions of land that are affected by one zoning category, why is it that we are not looking at the reality that there may not be enough business zoning or light industrial zoning for the people that service the town to exist in, or is the current zoning that allows those entities to exist is it sufficient in its lot coverage and the technicalities of that, and I think all of that has to be aired and reviewed. MR. PENNY: One piece at a time, why not do it all at once? We did it in the 1980s; why not do it all at once? Present a balanced program to the town that the town can live with and the polarization will stop. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Point well taken. Would you like to continue on with the remarks on the document? MR. PENNY: Would you like me to continue? AUDIENCE: Enough already. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Everybody will have their chance, but I think it's important and I'm happy to ask Mr. Penny to take a break and give someone else a chance, but I think the public's input, I hear a lot of input that I don't necessarily agree with, but it is important that every member of the public has their opportunity to express their issues, express their concerns, express their views and I will maintain that for as long as I'm here. If you'd like to continue, it's your call. COURT REPORTING AND TR~kNSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-80%7 19 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 1_~ 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. PENNY: It's yeur call. I can centinue; I can come back. SUPERVISOR HORTON: What I'll do is I'll allow if there are other members of the public that weuld like to address the Board. MR. RICHTER: George, let me explain a couple ef things, hew I view this decument. This decument is an environmental study. It's full ef information that we're leoking to gather frem the Tewn te de a Haster Plan -- and I don't agree with you. Haster plans need te be updated, need te be changed because as our town changes, we need to stay current. I believe Riverhead is deing one or in the precess of finalizing theirs. There's a couple ef things in here, when you take a document of this size, which I den't agree with yeu on a let of points, I think it's a well written decument. You can tear any document apart, especially ene of that nature and of that size can be tern apart. But what happens is ene ef the things we need to de -- we need te address seme issues. I personally think there are seme very pressing issues out there and that Southeld's at a cressreads and it's almost difficult eneugh te get ene item through, and I agree, I believe gevernment is a little bit stagnant. I think we don't tend to mere real fast. If yeu tend to do a lot ef issues at one time, to address a number of them -- and I can list them right off -- I think we would stand here and get nothing accomplished for quite some time. What we don't have the time, I think moratoria is something that we put in place because the pressure is here for us to see, we can all see the pressure that's here. To extend moratoria I don't think is fair. We did it for - we extended it for six months. We're in the process of extending it for another three. We're not being fair to landowners when you continue to do that because they don't know what the rules are of the game. They are told they absolutely cannot touch their parcels until we get done with moratoria. So I don't like the concept of keep extending moratoria. I think it's COUNT REPORTING AiND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 8i'8 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ~0 time to make decisions, address issues. Now, you said to us that document has a number of issues that should be addressed all at the same time. I do believe that affordable housing is a tremendous issue, and I don't believe that the traditional is working any more. I think we need to change to a different concept and go in a different direction. It definitely is something that is needed. But with the pressures -- when Valerie Scopaz, our planner - and don't forget the people that put that document together, all have expert backgrounds as planners, and I know some of you are going to believe me and some of you are not; it depends on what side of the issue you want to take whether you believe what I say is true or not. There's a lot of expertise that went into that document. But when our Town planner Valerie Scopaz says to me that they're lined up knocking on the planning door, I believe the number was 72 inquiries during the moratorium so far. I'm afraid that if we don't take action in this Town, we don't do stuff -- I shouldn't say stuff, that's not the right word. We need te continue te move forward. Nething's perfect. That document is information only. John said it a minute ago, whatever actions, laws that we put into effect will require public hearings, will require mere input from the public, and I think that is a good thing. We de need te hear what everyone has te say. But we can't stall. We have te keep moving forward. Thank you. MR. PENNY: Should I move on? SUPERVISOR HORTON: What I think I'm going te de, we have so many people here, and I see hands that are up. I'm going to offer the floor te ether members of the public that would like to address the Town Board and, Mr. Penny, we'd be happy to take you after these people are done. MR. PENNY: That's fine. SUPERVISOR HORTON: As well as have the Town Beard meeting next Tuesday and open the hearing time up at 8:00. Hr. Carlin. The Suffolk Times is leaving, Mr. Carlin. COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 1 21 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 l? 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 MR. CARLIN: I know. You know, our First Amendment, Freedom of Speech we have in this country, and everybody has the right to use it. But unfortunately the animals don't. So I am here tonight to speak for the animals of the Southold Town Animal Shelter. Mine is a two page job here. I'll start with the League. I was downtown the other day, and somebody asked me what's going on with that North Pork Animal Welfare League, how come you're not running, I said, hell no, I ain't going to run again, it's a Ringling Brother and Barnum and Bailey Circus. It was again in February. I don't want no more of that. What I'm going to say tonight are facts at that meeting, because the people not only the members in the Town must know about it. And John Romanelli, you were there and you know what I'm going to say is true, and I'm disappointed that that some of you others wasn't there at the Board to see what went on because they say one picture is worth a thousand words. We walked in. I got there at 9:00; you can't come in until 9:30. It so happens I happened to be there. We walked in, Anyway, three lawyers to run an annual meeting, an annual election. Three lawyers, one to conduct the meeting, one for technical advice and one to count the proxies. Boy, that's pretty good. Supposing you, Josh, didn't make the Town Board meeting, what would you do? You would automatically appoint your deputy supervisor to run it. You wouldn't go out to hire a lawyer, would you? Would the taxpayer like to see that, go out to hire a lawyer? SUPERVISOR HORTON: I'd like to hire a potato farmer instead. MR. CARLIN: What did yot: say? SUPERVISOR HORTON: I'd hire a potato farmer instead. MR. CARLIN: Well, maybe we'd get something done. Then, and the other one with the count the proxies, which we never even had a chance to do, and to this day we never seen them or never had the chance to monitor them. That was the meeting, real, redl, quite a bit COURT REPORTING ~uND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE '~ ,'8 ,s31} ~ -8047 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 25 22 of meeting. You would say that was a democratic way of having a meeting. No questions and answers were allowed. I managed to fire off one to the accountant, and he couldn't answer that, and then I was told, well, we don't have the time now; we'll get to that later if we have the time. We got to be out of here at 12:00. The Boy Scouts are coming in. The Boy Scouts weren't due to come in until 3:00. And you know, in here in this letter that Anna Casimano sent out - SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mr. Carlin MR. CARLIN: What? SUPERVISOR HORTON: If I may, I've heard over the course of the past couple weeks, and I think Miss Wolf very eloquently and articulately expressed some concerns, and they sound similar to the concerns that you're expressing. I will have it on the agenda at the next Town Board meeting to discuss Miss Wolf's recommendation so that will be at the July 15th work session to discuss that. But as it pertains to the inner workings of the Leaque, I don't know if this is the appropriate body or the appropriate place to air that. So if there's actual Town related business. MR. CARLIN: Why isn't it? You people contract out to the League, why isn't this Town business? Why don't you want to hear this? It's Town business. SUPERVISOR HORTON: We are going MR. CARLIN: And I'll - and I'm telling you what the facts are. If you want me to stop on that, that's what you want me to do, right? SUPERVISOR HORTON: I'm simply saying that MR. CARLIN: Simply telling me that you don't want to hear the truth, and I'm telling you truth. John can verify that. He was there, if you were there you probably would know, but I'm telling you to make sure you know. that. SUPERVISOR HORTON: £ appreciate COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 23 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 iL 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 MR. CARLIN: You can't win an election if the other side controls and sets the rules, and that's what you got here. They took away the Roberts Rules of Order and they put special rules of order and set the rules the way they wanted it. It was simple. Anna Casimano sent out this letter, newsletter, winter 2002 newsletter, and she said in here and I quote, "Be sure to read all the materials you receive carefully so you can make your voice heard at the upcominq election.,, We never even had the chance to read the speech. Then when it goes to the agenda, there's nothing on here that says people are allowed to speak and ask questions, and if you go to Number 2 of their special rules, the only matters to be discussed are items on the written agenda, which there was nothing on the written agenda. So it was set up to be hurry up, knock 'em out and count 'em affair, and Mr. -- and at the 2002 October meeting, the Town Board, when there was being discussed about things at the shelter, Anna Casimano said, if I don't have a contract of some kind for a new shelter in the spring, you can take your animal shelter back. Well, that's the time when Jean Cochran should have said to her goodbye, auf wiedersehen, we'll go to a municipal animal shelter and it will be run by the Town in an oversight committee, and that's the way I recommend it to be done now. It's awful. It was awful. Then Lorraine Andrews and her mother and I were insulted and we walked out to the parking lot after the election, and I told you what was said. I'm not going to mention it on TV, I don't think I want to. But - so never had the chance. How would you like it if the Board of Elections called you up and said your ne}~t election, you're not going to use a machine, you're going to use proxies only, and either a democrat or republicans are the only ones that are going to monitor and count the proxies, would you like that? Well that's exactly what happened to my group. SUPERVISOR HORTON: I have to feel that one out. MR. CARLIN: That's exactly what COUNT REPORTING AND TRAigSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 happened to my group using logic and reason. We wasn't allowed to monitor, to this day, the proxies or the voting at all. It was awful. It was a game of Monopoly, and I don't have time to get involved in it. Once is enough for me. I was surprised at the amount of members that was there. I hope they see what went on, because seeing is believing. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mr. Carlin -- MR. CARLIN: I know what you're saying and I'm going to finish on that one, and I'm going to switch over to the other phase of the animal shelter itself, and this one you can't knock me off on. SUPERVISOR HORTON: That's right. MR. CARLIN: Okay. Now, back in 2002, January, you had a meeting here with the North Fork Animal Welfare League about building the shelter. You discussed it And they didn't like some of the specificatzons of your plan. So they said we don't like some of the specifications of the plan, let's go back and start all over again. Well, in the first place, it's a Town animal shelter. They have no business or no right to get involved in how the shelter will be built. It's not their shelter. They only contract out to run it. But they shouldn't even be involved in what kind of shelter we're going to build here. It's what you people think the shelter should be, the architect, what engineers you have, what the shelter will be, not them. So then you come along and said right here, Josh, and it's right here in the Suffolk paper. I'm a bit taken back by you coming back to us now just two days before going out, we're going out for the bid, now that was 18 months ago. I can understand why you delayed here, because you only had $500,000. You didn't have the $1.25 million which the foundation came up with last July with the plans and the picture of the shelter, and I've got it here. It was estimated to be $1.25 million. So, they delayed, and you John, Mr. Romanelli, at the same time at the same meeting says if the Town Board elects to walk away from this bid, I will walk away f~om COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 1 25 2 3 4 5 ¥ 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 this whole situation, which I really can't blame you 'cause you were getting nowhere. And now, after 18 months comes a Bill Moore, about four months ago, Oh, we're moving along, in July -- no, we're moving along in March. Then we tend to be pretty good in July. Now it's July. Then I read in the paper Travel Watchman, June 5th, the Board., the Town Board meeting a resolution was passed by the Town Board to have environmental planning and consulting firm conduct a State Environmental Quality Review Act. The Town has been there for 18 years and now all of a sudden you got to bring those people in now? SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mr. Carlin, it's a requirement. Mr. Carlin - MR. CARLIN: What? SUPERVISOR HORTON: I'm going to again, defer to Councilman Moore, wNo again will say -- Mr. Carlin, please, what I will say is Councilman Moore has taken the bull by the horns on this issue and worked diligently and very hard in not only informing the Board on the progress of building an adequate shelter, but has led to progress in the development of plans for building a new shelter. So I'm going to defer to Councilman Moore for a minute on the issue. COUNCILMAN MOORE: We will have a detailed report for the Board in two weeks. I will have a detailed report fcr the Board in two weeks. We have more progress, I won't bore you with that, but Josh is right, that environmental review process is required for us to do the bond for the construction. MR. CARLIN: Why did you wait so long to do that? Like I keep ~sking, why didn't you get that bond issue out before? Ail this, why you waiting now for; all this stuff comes along and it detains you, why did you take so long for? COUNCILMAN MOORE: We won't talk about how government process works. MR. CARLIN: Government process. COUNCILMAN MOORE: Okay fine. Jamie Richter has been very, very helpful and he has called in to me today. In fact, I have not spoken to him today. I will report to the COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE ~631 878 8047 26 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 Board in two weeks about where we are and where we're going and will be happy te share with you after I speak with Jamie. MR. CARLIN: You also said in the same paper that new the Beard will select an architect and engineers. Don't you have an architect by now? What are you doing here? You're going te select an architect new, when 18 months age I just said te you only been out for a bid. Who are you going te select? SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mr. Carlin, we are working together very hard te croat and develop a new shelter. MR. CARLIN: I knew you're working very hard. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Hr. Carlin, we are, to create and develop a new shelter that's adequate. MR. CARLIN: Hew much are environmental plans going to cost, tell me new? How much is it going te cost? SUPERVISOR HORTON: I think it's between $700 and $1,000. MR. CARLIN: You think. SUPERVISOR HORTON: And the study's complete. MR. CARLIN: The Town ought te be ashamed ef themselves to build a shelter for these people, Mr. Wickham, are you asleep? COUNCILHAN WICKHAM: Ne. MR. CARLIN: Thank you. Sorry if I bored you. Like I said, you should have got the bend issue with the people done with and that would have been out ef the way. You still don't have the $700,000. You don't have it Bill, de you? COUNCILMAN MOORE: The Town attorney has told us we couldn't de the bend issue until the until we had the SEQRA document. The SEQRA document is done. The bend resolution is a simple matter of setting a public hearing, letting folks talk about whether we should or shouldn't, and, in fact, here is one of the issues we have to know and the architects are going te help us with this. We have te know even if we're going te use $750,000 efa bond, 250 from Hr. Rayner, that's one million, but if it comes in at 1.3, COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 27 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 113 14 1 !5 16 i7 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1.4, 1.5, the bond resolution has to identify the maximum cost and where the money's coming from. I don't have today a maximum cost, so the bond resolution today is premature, but it is not a difficult thing. It is not a public vote. It does not go out for referendum. Bear with us, Frank, you're right, 18 years is too damn long, bnt we're moving forward, and we're trying to move forward under circumstances that you folks have alluded to. Forget about alluded to, brought straight out, which is internal issues with the League which boil over to affect the Town business of running a sheltez. So I try and tread lightly and work carefully with a lot of folks keeping our eye on the goal, which you said a moment ago is the new shelter, and I ask your patience. MR. CARLIN: This year $1.25 million, I ain't come along saying when we get this. COUNCILMAN HOORE: What would you like to hear out ef me tonight? MR. CARLIN: What would you like te hear out of me? Now you listen te everybody else, let me please finish what I want te say. SUPERVISOR HORTON: You do understand that you have the commitment from this Board to build an adequate shelter? MR. CARLIN: I know that, but let me get my facts out, okay. If I'm bothering you, I'm sorry. SUPERVISOR HORTON: You're not at all. No, you're not at all. I just want to make sure that we're clear that we're trying hard, working hard to build a shelter. MR. CARLIN: We started out with $1.25 million, okay, now if we get the bond we'll have $100,000 right, with the 750, you just said it, and Hr. Raynor's could be one million, right? Now then you say the same type I read before you to three to 40,0 we need. So now we're over 150,000 already. To the 1.25 million. You said that in the paper here June 5th, we're s~ill short 300 to $400,000. So that makes your 150,000 already over the one million and a quarter COURT REPORTING AND TRA~NSCRIPTION SERVICE {631 878 8047 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 28 MR. MOORE: I'm sorry, we're estimating $300,000, $400,000 shy that we're going to do fundraising for and the foundation's going to help us. In fact, I was going to show the Board in a couple weeks, but I'll give you a little piece of information. In sitting down with folks to get more input on what this thing has to look like and we had comments back from this fellow Mr. Radley and led to further meetings with folks from the League and Mr. Gillian and others how this thing would work and the layout. What did we bump up - 400 square feet. I don't want to say 700. I'll be conservative and say 400. So it's got to be this and it's got to be that, and so there is problematic discussion of what it's going to design and look like. So let me get more detail in four to six weeks. MR. CARLIN: It's simple mathematics to me. This was the plan that the foundation put last July, this is a plan, a picture of the building the inside plan now. COUNCILMAN MOORE: And that plan was sent out to Mr. Radley. MR. CARLIN: Are we using that plan now? COUNCILMAN MOORE: It's being modified. MR. CARLIN: Well, if that plan was at a $1.25 million that plan right there, how much -- who is modifying it? Are you the North Pork League who ought to review these plans. COUNCILMAN MOORE: There is a practical architects designing facilities talk to those who use them, it makes sense. If you're going to build a library, talk to librarians, the Town Hall, talk to people who work there. They have practical day to day operational information. They can't design the thing; they can tell you the traffic flow, where they store stuff. They have been helpful in that regard. SUPERVISOR HORTON: I wonder if it wouldn't be advantageous, Mr. Carlin, to sit down with Bill, because you seem to have a plan, a bit of information and quite a few COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 1 29 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11_ 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 political go. questions, and I wonder if it wouldn't be helpful if you sit down with Councilman Hoore on a one on eno basis and walk through that. COUNCILMAN MOORE: I'll bring you up to speed. MR. CARLIN: As far as them getting involved in how the building somebody built, they have nothing te say abont it. It's a Town building. If they want to get involved with it, let them step up te the plate and donate some money to it you. Okay. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Thank you. MR. CARLIN: And another thing, I would suggest, Mr. Herten -- SUPERVISOR HORTON: Yes. MR. CARLIN: That this become again a municipal animal shelter run by the Town with an oversight committee with ne connections and that's the way to you . SUPERVISOR HORTON: Okay, thank Anybody else care to address the public? Ms. Weisman. MS. WEISMAN: My name is Becky Weisman, and I am associate director at Long Island Farm Bureau, and I have a couple comments to make to the Board tonight. The first one is I take exception to the comment that was made earlier this evening, the point made that the farmers haven't done anything new to improve their situation. The reason that I take exception to this because as I have worked with them extensively Over the last two years. I have watched them become increasingly educated on the issues around their situation, around their farming needs. I have watched nhem become increasingly involved in Town government and become increasingly vocal on issues around preservation. And I've also heard it said by the Town Board members or some that the farmers haven't given them any new ideas. I have to say that I disaqree with that also. - Farming has changed ever the last several years, you all bare watched it change. COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 3O Change sometimes comes very abruptly; sometimes change takes a course of time. This has become a process of change for the farmers becoming more and more involved in the political spectrum, more and more involved in governmental issues and policy making. When they began this, they were not accustomed to this. It they weren't used to becoming involved in politics. But they have become increasingly so. In fact, over the last year there has been a farmer that has been voted or placed on every Board in the Town Hall. I think that's great commendation to them for the work and the efforts that they have done and it shows that they indeed are trying to improve their situation and indeed trying to work with the Town government to continue to change and to continue to preserve the farmland that they have. It was clear to me from this morning's work session that by the behavior exhibited by some of the Board members that it's really pointless to continue this discussion, and this interchange of ideas. And the reason that I say that is because I heard with my ears at this public session, at the work session this morning, some statements that were made that I believe that the citizens here, and those of you who are watching need to be aware of. I've heard -- and I know it was recorded this morning. THE CLERK: No. MS. WEISMAN: No, I saw those microphones, and I thought it was recorded. Well, this is my recollection. It could be discredited perhaps, but this is my recollection. This is what I wrote down when I heard it. Heard Mr. Richter say I've had enough input. I heard Mr. Romanelli say the longer we extend this the longer it takes. I also heard Mr. Romanelli state in regards to five acre zoning. I will live or I will fall by it. And in response to Josh's discussion of the comments that the community still continues to want to make comments, Mr. Richter stated it's your perception, Josh, that the community wants more time. COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 1 31 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 In my work as an advocate for the farmers, I've had the opportunity to work in several towns, not just Southold, I've worked in Huntington, Brookhaven Southampton, and East Hampton, and I just need the citizens of this community to know that I have never encountered this kind of level of a board's unwillingness to work with and to listen to the citizens that, in fact, elected them to office. These men and women who farm the land in Southold Town are the largest landowners. They will be the most impacted by the decisions that this Board makes based on the DGEIS. And, in closing, [ think it's a sad state of democracy when our public officials state they don't want to listen any longer. They have heard all they need to hear and are ready to make their decisions. It's a really sad state of affairs. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Anybody else care to comment? MR. RICHTER: Yeah I need to comment. Excuse me, Mr. Supervisor just to comment on that. Couple of issues. Because people are hearing one side of the Story, and I need to get both sides out. When I answered Supervisor Horton that his perception was that there was more people, he said his perception -- his view wanted ~o have more input on the subject matter. I've had calls of people stop me and say they have had enough. So we have two different points here. So that's one issue. When you say that i've had enough information, I've been listening to this for years. I tried, as Mr. Van Bourgondien knows, and noted before, even though I disagree when he says that I put my hands over my ears and I'm not listening to him, that's not true. Anybody that knows me, and I bet you know that's not true. I want to find a better way, but there is none. I have not seen i[~. MS. WEISMAN: Okay. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Please know I'm not going to get into -- MS. WEISMAN: Please, that's fine. COUNT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631} 878 8047 3£ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 You have your choice of opinion. This is what I heard, and this is what I think that the citizens need te hear whether it's here tonight. COUNCILMAN RICHTER: They de need to hear this. But they need o hear beth sides. MS. WEISMAN: I don't want te argue with you. COUNCILMAN RICHTER: I don't want te argue. MS. WEISMAN: Ne, neither do I. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Thank you. Mr. Raynor. northeast Route 48, landfill. MR. RAYNOR: Good evening. My name's Henry Raynor, Mattituck. And I'm here tonight on behalf of Tide Group and I promise you brevity if nothing else. But, Supervisor, we're here formally to request an amendment to the Southold Town Water Distribution Map dated June of 2000. Our parcel is situated on the corner of Depot Lane and County directly west, adjacent to the Town The water distribution map shows Suffolk County Department of Health moratorium areas end at the west side of the Town landfill. The map, as you have it, is in error. In January of 1997 the Suffolk County Department of Health Services restricted any new private wells from being installed within a thousand feet of the Town landfill. I believe you have a copy of those resolutions, the entire Town Board has. This created a moratorium on our property and adjacent pieces, and it was made such until water service in the area was available. We have tried to obtain water from the Suffolk County Water Authority, and they will not service our property because of the adopted map excluding that parcel. I quote you - I want to give you a quotation - '~If the Health Department of the Town of Southold wishes to formally amend the map which we have been using since July 2000 to guide water main installations, we will reconsider our position at that time." End Quote. That letter was COURT REPORTING AND TR~kNSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 2 3 4 5 ,? 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 addressed to us from Steven Jones, CEO of the Suffolk County Water Authority. We have also forwarded to the Board a letter from Steven Costa of the Suffolk County Department of Health Services and his correspondence with the Suffolk County Water Authority. He has again, in his correspondence requested consideration of public service of water to our property, and I've attached a copy of that also. Right now as it sLands, our property is being discriminated against by the Southold Town Board Distribution Map as it has ignored the prior restrictions of the Suffolk County Department of Health. We call upon you, the Town Board, to correct and amend the water distribution map for our inclusions, and I would ask the Board to take this under consideration. I know now is not the time for a long term discussion on the subject. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Actually, we will take that under serious consideration. I was on the phone with Mr. Jones yesterday in discussion but he's adamant, and I think it's reasonable at this point, he's adamant that the Town, the Water Authority and the Health Department actually sit down and provide a mechanism that is formalized for doing -~ for addressing issues specifically as you mentioned. So we will be taking it under serious consideration. MR. RAYNOR: Will me scheduling a meeting, can we be present at lhat meeting? SUPERVISOR HORTON: There will be - it would probably be in a work session setting, or, if not, it would be a meeting with the -- as I mentioned, the Authority, the Health Department and the Town not specific to any one parcel. MR. RAYNOR: I understand that. I understand also that you have an existing water map and you have ne way of amending that. point. That's both. SUPERVISOR HORTON: That's my MR. RAYNOR: That's your problem. our problem. Let's hope we can resolve COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SUPERVISOR HORTON: Exactly. Yeah, I'd think that is a meeting that yeu weuld be more than welceme to attend. Okay. HR. RAYNOR: Thank yeu very much. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Whe else cares to address the Tewn B©ard? Hr. Guis. HR. GUIS: Thank you, Superviser Horton, Hembers ef the Tewn Beard I'm Gunther Geiss, a resident of S©uth©ld, a member of the Nerth Perk Animal Welfare League and ene ef the feunders ef Sunshine and Fresh Air fer Animals, which is a subgreup ef the League that devetes itself te trying te reform the League and impreve the services that it effers, and, Hrs. Neville, I have a printed versien ef what I'm partially geing te say. I wen't take yeu through what I had prepared because Hiss Well did such a wenderful jeb ef making the case f©r the eversigNt cemmittee, that I won't do mere than to echo what she said. I had speken last on February 25th at a Tewn Beard meeting in which I identified for you the real eperatienal preblems at the shelter and argued for an intensive administration of the contract that you have with the League. The only thing new to add in that is that you all have received a letter from my wife detailing a recent incident in which a pet goat was brutalized and mauled by some dogs. The police and NAFL responded. Neither one took action to take the dogs into confinement, or to have them tested, even though one of them had blood on its muzzle, argument being nobody saw them do it. Nonetheless, under the Ag and Markets Law, those are dangerous dogs, if they threaten wildlife, domestic animals or human beings, and obviously they were doing that. So I think it warrants your attention. She also spoke about the misappropriation of 147 some thousand dollars to prevent the Sunshine Group for running for office. The only thing I want to add to that is people should be aware that the New York State Not-For-Profit Law, corporate law, expressly forbids the use of corporate funds for use of personal benefit. And there is COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-80%7 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 good reason to say that protecting your Board seat is personal benefit. And people who agree with us, I would urge ought to make a complaint to the charity's bureau of the New York State Attorney General's office. This may be a serious violation of law by the present Board and seeing as how you contract with them, I want to bring it to your attention. They have also spent a great deal, as she pointed out, on this revision of the bylaws, and we the supporters of Sunshine and Fresh Air prepared a lengthy objection to the attorney Pamela Mann, and I wlll enclose that with my statement for the record. Suffice it to say that the interesting part of it is Miss Mann's served for 11 years as the head of the Charity's Bureau, until 1996 and now she is in private practice working with organizations such as NORPAL, and we have raised the question as to whether she is serving the organization as is required by legal ethic or is she serving the individuals of the Board. The third thing I wanted to bring up, which nobody has spoken to before, is that we have the official list of voting members dated June 19th. One has to be a member for 30 days to vote. The importanl thing is that the list does not include members who we know renewed or applied in June. And as part of the court hearing process that we went through last year, the judge had clearly instructed the League that membership begins the first of the month in which the check is received. So if you give them a check in June, you're a member June 1st, by June 30th, that's 30 days. By July 19th you get to vote. They insist June 1st is an arbitrary cut-off date. So anybody who has submitted a membership application o~ renewal ought to call the shelter at 765-1811 to make sure that they are on the legitimate voting list. Next - SUPERVISOR HORTON: Gus. MR. GEISS: Yes. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Are you using this as an opportunity to spar debate between COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION .SERVICE (631) 878-8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 t7 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 36 the League? Because I don't think that's the purpose of this Town Board meeting, and you do have our commitment, and we're not here to take sides as Mrs. Wolf pointed out we do contract with the League, and you've aired some concerns, and the Town Board will take this discussion up, so if this is again to spur debate -- MR. GEISS: This is to raise the issue about how they operate, and I think that -- I think that's the thing that has to be taken into consideration. SUPERVISOR HORTON: And it will be. MR. GEISS: I will be brief about this. Rather than take you through all the statistics I will simply tell you that only half of the members from last year renewed. But yet the membership is virtually at the same level, and this is because they introduced 292 new members, of whom 162 do not live on the north fork. That's 55 percent. Worse, over 25 percent don't even live on Long Island or New York City. They are in Georgia, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Elgin, Illinois, you name it, British Columbia for one. Now, I can't see that these people are people concerned about the operation of this shelter. They're loading the box to gain the vote, and this is the point that I really want to make that we're in this very strange situation where the only effective recommendation that can be made to the members of the League who care about the League is don't vote, because they have virtually enough votes to pass what they want, if you help them -- SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mr. Geiss, you are now using this as a platform. MR. GEISS: Fine. I will end it there. May I say one other thing? SUPERVISOR HORTON: Sure. MR. GEISS: This is one of the strangest meetings I have attended in about four years. And I'll say that it's strange because I have the feeling that you've been grappling with an elephant and Mr. Penny is trying te tell you what is wrong with the COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 1 37 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 lC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 elephant, and I'm asking you to swat a fly that may be annoying the elephant. So there's a real issue of context and juxtaposition here, and so somebody comes to ask for water it sounds almost like nonsense when you're trying to develop a plan for 20 years. The other thing I'd like to say to you is, 1960, my wife and I got married and we moved from Queens where a 50 ]Dy 100 was a home, a 100 by a 100 on the corner was a palazzo. We moved to Freeport into an apartment because that's what we could afford, and after a year we moved to Huntington because that's what we could afford. Where we bought our own home. We chose Huntington for one very special reason, Huntington had the only 20 year plan on the books on Long Island. Within five years of our moving to Huntington a new administration came in, the plan went out of the window and I began to join the environmental activities in the town, and I learned firsthand how wonderful the laws are that you passed, and how impossible it is to administer. We had a tree law that you couldn't cut a tree with a certain caliper or larger and whenever we would complain about somebody, the Town Board would say we can't deal with that right now. I served on the Oil Spill Board and we were trying to prevent oil spills in the harbors. We were the second group in the United States to attempt this. But the Town was in negotiation with Lilco over a forth stack. So when we said to the people at Lilco my God, you do not have a person who can converse to the captain and you understand that the captain is Greek, the crew is Chinese and the land crew is English; they couldn't use hand signs; they had no other means of communications if we had spills. They said shush, shush, shush, we're negotiating a fourth stack. ~ There are very serious problems in all of this attempt to control serious and complex issues, and I just warn you not to have the dream we had, that a 20 year plan COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631} 878 8047 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 will would do everything. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Thank you, Mr. Geiss, thank you. Anybody else care to address the Town Board? Yes ma'am, Mrs. Sweeney. MS. SWEENEY: Thank you. I was at Mr. Forester's office this afternoon or this morning because I have a situation next door to me with an open cesspool. It's been emptied on Thursday, Saturday Peconic Cesspool came back on Sunday and as of now the cesspool is open with a board across it. The reason for the cesspool is because -- I would like you to just see this -- can I just approach you? There's the house next door to me, which is ten feet away, has two apartments in it. One upstairs, one downstairs and the one they're living in. They also run a commercial business out of the -- and this was the complaint. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mrs. Sweeney - MS. SWEENEY: (Inaudible.) Mr. Forester said in this location I was not allowed accessory apartments. I have an accessory apartment in this location; I was not allowed an accessory apartment. My husband had passed away and a friend of mine had asked me if she could stay at my house for a while until she found a new location. This was the reason that they thought I had - all she did was stay in the bedroom. Mr. Forester send me letters all the time. I got a fine because I had a light in my back porch. I got a citation from the police. I put some debris out in the front yard for them to pick up. Mr. Forester stopped by to tell me to pick up the debris. He's now worried about a small garbage pail that I have in front of my yard. I live alone. I try to maintain the property as well as I can. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mrs. Sweeney, would it be helpful for in my office you, me and Mr. Forester? MS. SWEENEY: I tried that. I tried with the police. He has a commercial dumpster. In the front of his yard because COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 39 2 3 4 5 ,5 '7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mr. DeBello happens to be his sen-in law, and they come every week and they do just like they do in the commercial - and they dump this thing over. He allows his family and friends to put garbage in this dumpster. Mr. Forester doesn't address that. I have to have a commercial dumpster, two apartments and a family business that park these great big trucks, she DeBello,s trucks. They do landfill out - you know, DeBello's trucks, they do landfill out on the road, omt on the sidewalk. Police do nothing. I am meddling. I hate to say and the girl from the anti-bias league is here, and - but this is a bias thing. I happen to be Puerto Rican and Cuban. I mention that when I first came to Town -- I'm here since 1963 - I raised five boys, none of them were ever in trouble. One was killed in 1983, unfortunately, on the road. He was not drunk. It was a horrendous accident and my husband passed away the following year because he couldn't handle it. They had wanted -- the police have wanted me out of this town ever since I moved in, and they tell me every time I call them, get out of town, get out of town. I've been arrested. I am now serving three years probation because I had a radio in my house on. I play classical music. Three years probation, I've been in jail twice, brought to the county jail because I had a radio on. When I pulled in the driveway, my radio was on. I was put in jail. I'm 70 years old, maybe I don't look it. SUPERVISOR HORTON: You don't. MS. SWEENEY: I would love that. Cheeks young, and I'm Italian too. My mother was Puerto Rican, and my father was Cuban. I'm not ashamed of it, and I don't want to be. And I have so many good friends in this Town, Mr. Raynor, who just came! up here, very good friend of mine, lives on my block, Hr. Wickham, Parker, he loves me. ~'ln a very good person and I hate te be calling it a bias town because it really isn't; great people here. Thank you. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Thank you, Hrs. Sweeney. Anybody else care to address COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 25 the Town Board on Town-related matters? Mrs. Egan? MS. EGAN: Oh, hi. God bless you too. Now, oh, Mr. Richter, don't disappear well, you'll review it on TV, won't you darling? Just a few questions for clarification then I'll get into the issues. I'm speaking, when I'm speaking, you're looking at me, please. I had a problem, you know we spend a lot of money for air conditioning, well, it's the taxpayers money blah, blah, blah, blah. Now I close one door on this side and one on the other. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mrs. Egan? MS. EGAN: Because when you open the door from that side or that side, hot air comes in. Is that wrong to close one of them? SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mrs. Egan, this is not something that we need to take up. MRS. EGAN: I asked for clarification because yesterday he didn't get back to me. Now -- SUPERVISOR HORTON: Can you call my office - if this is for clarification. MS. EGAN: This is Town business. SUPERVISOR HORTON: I understand, Mrs. Egan. I'm a big fan of yours - MS. EGAN: You should be, you should be. SUPERVISOR HORTON: I appreciate all that you do for us. When you call at 11:00 at night, when you call my home at 11:00 at night, Mrs. Egan, I will not return the call. MS. EGAN: Why not? SUPERVISOR HORTON: Because I'm working. MS. EGAN: Are you really, prove it. Don't ever try to upzone me, darling. Now, one of your resolutions says that you are going to have a time clock up here, I heard something about a time machine, not you. Mr. Horton. SUPERVISOR HORTON: A time management system. MS. EG/kN: What is that? COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 l0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 SUPERVISOR HORTON: A system in which one would manage time. MS. EGAN: What does that mean? SUPERVISOR HORTON: It is a method that our department would more accurately clock and monitor all of our time, our employees, time. MS. EGAN: Wonderful. Now, I also think that taking over the North Fork Bank facility is spreading the Town out, and everybody thinks that you would go wrong. Now, I'm sorry that Mr. Moore had to leave also because of Mr. Moore and the previous administration and all, I have a very serious problem with my neighbor. So I hope he doesn't sleep too well. Mr. Romanelli, how are you, dear? You look a little tired. You're holding your head up and rubbing your eyes. Well, that's a problem. Now, have you provided Mr. Harris with a secretary or anything to get him some things done with the DOT? The answer to that is yes or no? HR. ROM/LNELLI: The answer to that is Mr. Harris does not need any help. MS. EG/kN: Oh, yes he does. He needs clerical help. I reviewed this at the last Town Board meeting and you made a very serious mistake in saying Somethinq that wasn't so. I'm not going to call you a L I-A-R, darling, be very careful, you're on tape: Now, Mr. Horton, I gave you a letter to ascertain that Mr. Yakaboski find out some things. I notice he's walking with a limp. I hope he didn't trip on the street and maybe sue you, did he answer that letter to you? SUPERVISOR HORTON: I did not share that with him yet. MS. EGAN: You didn't? SUPERVISOR NONTON: No. MS. EGAN: Oh, that's great. That was only a month ago. You're really keeping up with things, Josh. New, let ~e see, oh, I would like to knew, and I hope there's an affirmative answer here, that at the last meeting ~ COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631} 878-8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 seriously recommended that Detective Stesinowski be sent a letter of commendation; de you know whether that was done? Mr. Richter should really address that since he's the liaison with the office ef the police department. Was that done? SUPERVISOR HORTON: That would be something that her department head who was the chief of police would do. MS. EGAN: Was it brought te his attention that I mentioned that at a Town Hall meeting so that something like that could be done? After all, you are the head ef the chief ef the police; so I think a letter from you would be appropriate. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Will do. MS. EGAN: Send me a copy, please. Now, also, I think also. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Mrs. Egan -- MS. EGAN: What about the noise control; are we doing anything about that? That would be your baby, Mr. Romanelli. MR. ROMANELLI: It's not my baby. MS. EGAN: Oh, yes. When you came to office, you said you were going to handle that. Nothing's been done, correct? MR. ROMANELLI: Nothing at all. MS. EGAN: Nothing at all, that's wonderful. Okay, also, you are not on tape and quoted here earlier saying that when an issue was brought up that there would be meetings like this, and these things would be corrected. And, of course, as I say, you sit up there, and you've all made up your minds what you're going to do and not do, and I would like to tell you, Mr. Horton, if you have time to see this on TV, and you will see the clip laughing and talking while thinking about what they're going to do in voting for resolutions. Shame, shame, shame, shame and shame. Bye. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Thank you Mrs. Egan. Would anybody else care to address the Town Board? Mr. Kiel? MR. KIEL: Hello, my name's Eric Kiel. I'm a Mattituck resident. I'm going to COURT REPORTING ~/qD TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 1 2 3 5 6 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 43 direct my question at Justice Evans. I see here that the Town Board seems to have passed - I wasn't here earlier so perhaps I'm misunderstanding. I believe you quoted in favor of closing the public hearing on the DGEIS; is that correct? COUNCILWOMAN EVANS: That's correct. MR. KIEL: I'm wonder -- COUNCILWOMAN EVANs: That's correct. Not tonight at the next Town Board meeting. MR. KIEL: : I'm wondering how comfortable you are with that decision in light of the fact that you didn't attend any of the public hearings? COUNCILWOMAN EVANs: I was out of Town way before those meetings were scheduled, but I have read every single word that was spoken. MR. KIEL: Okay. Then you must be aware of the large amount of public requests for extending the hearing and keeping the hearings open. COUNCILWOMAN EVANS:: Eric, we have all agreed -- MR. KIEL: I understand. But I'm directing my COmments to you because you weren't at the public hearings, these particular comments. COUNCILWOMAN EVANs: I have read the minutes of the meeting. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Your point is well made. MR. KIEL: I would ~lso like to point out, for the public record, that it seems that this is a partisan decision because of the large amount of public requests to keep these public hearings open and to allow further public input and because of the lines along which this was voted on, I'm very disappointed that this decision was made. And I hope that you will reconsider. COUNCILWOMAN EVANs: Eric, all of us voted for it. MR. KIEL: For closing the public hearing? COUNCILWOMAN EVANS: Yes. COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631} 878 8047 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 MR. KIEL: Is that hearing -- public comment going to be allowed at the public Town Board meeting? SUPERVISOR HORTON: Yes. MR. KIEL: Okay. And the consultants will be present at well? SUPERVISOR HORTON: We'll have members of the team here, yes. MR. KIEL: So it's going to be like an open public hearing? SUPERVISOR HORTON: Yes. MR. KIEL: And more public comment will be allowed? SUPERVISOR HORTON: MR. KIEL: At 8:00, you very much. SUPERVISOR HORTON: care to address the Town Board? Yes. okay. Thank Anybody else Mr. Penny would you care to? MR. PENNY: Back to my paper clip collection. 1-32. Back on the TDR issue - SUPERVISOR HORTON: Before you get started, Mr. Penny, I will say that all members of the Board, we have been here for three hours exactly. If you would care to get up and get a cup of water or use the facilities, please feel free to do so. MR. PENNY: The approach proposed by Southold under TDR selected receiving sites was the desiqnated village or hamlet areas where more c~ncentrated development will be encouraqed. I think that's where I left off. TDR's c~n then be used to obtain the higher density. This concept is not a new concept, but this concept existed in the Master Plan and has never been followed through. One of the reasons it was never followed through, and I spent many, many hours arguing with the Planning Board, and I'm sure their position hasn't changed, the Planning Board is against TDRs I don't know why you had to regenerate this and put it up as a planning tool, when, if you had actually intended to use it, you could have started a program in a study, had maps and had this thing going in the amount of time you had this written supporting it. COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE {631) 878 8047 45 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 1 2 2 2 ~ 24 25 There is support for the Master Plan; it already existed. I don't know why it's taken this approach and where it's going. In order to put the TDR program to work, the Town must identify sending and receiving zones for reduction in corresponding increase in development. It's given. Some of these other things, the PDDs are great, but if you're going to put something in the hamlets, show us what's going in the hamlets, where, maps. People, maps work good. People like visual stuff. When you're talking about concepts people want, you know, show me what you're giving me. The tree preservation home law, well, we know where that one's going. You heard from the gentleman up the island that the Town Board is not going to be dealing with who's cutting down a tree in their front yard. It's never really been a serious problem in the Town, outside of a couple of business sites and there's a law that prevents it, so that's what enforcement is all about. The critical environmental land local law, not a bad idea, not a bad idea. As soon as you can do with this. Scenic byways, overall development control. I understand from talking to the farm community that you can't use this on some of the agricultural land, whether it's an overlay zone or whatever, and I think that should be addressed in here where you can use it and where you can't use it, so people have a clear indication and don't think they're going to get this blanket that's going to cover the north fork, when, in fact, there's going to be many, many years ,especially that are very visual on the back roads where you can't use it in the first place, and I think that that should be addressed and possibly mapped also. Economic developmsnt plan. The lack of an economic development plan means the Town is not positioned to either pursue or encourage specific types of new development uses, market niches or industries that would benefit the residents of the Town. There was a~ economic committee COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631}, 878 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 46 that was established back in the late '80s. I believe their report said that nothing was necessary. That report does not seem to appear in this document, and it should be included. People spent many hours, I think it was in the course of a year and-a-half, two years sitting down, and they fell down back to the old traditional thing about farming, fishing and tourism. But that should appear in here. I mean, why you would need anything more than that, I don't know, because it was decided back in those days that, you know, incentives, tax incentives and stuff like that, they weren't really going to do a whole lot. So that should be included. Enforcement, enforcement, enforcement. Good enforcement, would prevent a lot of these laws from having to be changed for any reason. If there are complaints, the complaints should be documented. The documented complaints should be put in this document, so that people can see the reason behind the suggestion that they change a home occupation law, that they change an RO zone. Show us where the problems are, don't just allude to them. Show us where the problems are, and they should be documented if the enforcement department is doing their job. Park districts, I'll let them fight for themselves. They're going to love that part of it. Affordable housing policy. Page 1-43. By all accounts the Town continues to face an affordable housing crisis. We knew this. We knew this. There are no new incentives in this plan. Something could have been done, initiated, and that's what we'd be dealing with tonight rather than the concept of where we're going. It could have been put in place, same as the TDRs were put in place. There's been plenty of time to do it. Everybody's been talking, but they have been talking about five acre zoning, and they haven't been talking about all these other issues with the seriousness that you're talking about five acre zoning. If you did, you'd have a balanced plan. Past studies point to the need to COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 develop an affordable housing policy to avert this issue. That's a policy, we already have the law. The Town has ne affordable housing policy. If you had one, you'd be generating X number of units per year one 'way or another. That's a goal to say. Concentrate development in the hamlets. There again, hamlet definitions, vacant areas ef the hamlets where this can be accomplished and ways that this can be accomplished. They just suggest through TDRs and through overlays and stuff like that PDD, that this happen. Architectural Review Beard, once again, the Architectural Review Beard is looking for more power. I think that speaks for itself. The community as a whole has done very well. The business community has te deal with it. The residential community has never embraced that idea, and that is net mentioned in this at all either. The developing water supply Master Plan. They kind ef suggested, I think, the Suffolk County Department ef Health Services, and the Town already has eno. I believe that they already have eno. I don't knew where the Town could ge with that because the Town can only suggest that certain areas be covered. The reorganization here to make another department, I don't know. I'm net going te touch that eno. Okay, Page 2-43, 22.6.3 land use plans and recommendations. This paragraph here cries for a Master Plan. It begs for a Master Plan. The Town ef Seuthold doesn't have a current adopted master ,Dr comprehensive use plan that specifically articulates the future vision ef the community. This whole document says you needs a master plan update. The master plan dates back to 1985. However, it was passed in 1989 and there have been a number of changes in the regional and Town planning environment that are addressed in a series ef important studies. Well, hopefully those aren't some of the studies that have just been shelved, because I know one ef them, like specifically the Jones plan, came up a whole idea that you had te kind of buy your way into variances and COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 48 stuff like that, and the Town shelved that. I see that being mentioned as an important document. But this cries for -- and here again is mentioned the LWRP, this is currently waiting approval. That's fine, but that has not gotten approval. That is not a Town document at this point. And yet it's being referred to. You've already been over 48. Commercial development on Page 2-61 the Town code requires the review of site plan applications includes review specific for drainage systems, however, not all residential site plan applications received this scrutiny. That is, the applications for individual park, individual home sites, driveways, parking lots, et cetera, are not subject to Planning Board review and therefore cannot receive drainage system review. As a result, the volume of runoff directed to public system is increased, without corresponding continued coordinated review needed for the affected drainage systems; the Town engineer requested that this be addressed. The building permit process is slow enough, if there was runoff that goes in the town roads, it's always been the Highway Department that has addressed it. They have gone to the owner of the site and asked him to remediate it. If you throw one more cog in the wheel between the Suffolk County Department of Health Services and anybody involved in the building permit process, you're not going to get building permits. I mean, there was a point two years ago they were taking eight to 12 months to get permits. This was -- throwing more bureaucracy in here is not the answer, enforcement is. The Highway Department can get out. They can see where the problems are; they're easy to see. All you got to de is go out on a rainy day, you know where the water's running and where it's ceming frem. Page 3 8, several additional factors support the use ef year 'round residency factors fer the supports fer the purpese ef the RIAH. The build out analysis on which the RIAM is based determines the COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 49 2 4 5 6 ~? 8 9 3.2 Z3 14 2_5 3_'7 28 20 21 22 23 24 25 potential number of units exclusive of those lands that have permanent protection or preservation methods. As a result, year 'round factors were used for hhe following reasons: Seasonal homes could be occupied on a full-time basis any time. That's a fairly abstract statement. To think that people that have a second home out here or everybody is going to move out here all at once clouds the issue. There should be a scale in here. There should be a fudge factor, 20 or 30 percent. To say this thing is going from nothing or one hundred percent: has got to be totally inaccurate in today's day and age, with computer projections, past records that the Town has, these should be added to this document to support these types of figures. The number of seasonal homes cannot be regulated under any codes or law. An assumption regarding the number of year 'round versus seasonal homes is not a permanent protection measure. What is permanent? I mean, why are we looking for the abstract here? Why are we locking for a finite? This should be presented on a chart with ranges and give us a fudge factor, let's be real. I mean, painting the worst-case scenario does nothing for the public and it suits the purposes for which one side or the other may want to hinge their arguments on. Also, the Town has had a history of pursuing development rights for land preservation. The availability of funds from the Town, County, State and Federal sources for such purposes not known or guaranteed; therefore, the projection of full build-out does not factor in such efforts. I mean, come on, this is a document by a planner? I mean, let's get some reality in to this. Please, give us something. I marked down here the argument is weak. It's almosk no argument at all. BOARD MEMBER: What page is that? MR. PENNY:. That's section 3 8. Once again, in that same context we have within this developable land in the COUNT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5O R-80 and the AC zone, my question is: Does it specifically include vineyards? If so -- if not it's a huge factor. If it's vineyards, if you're going to make the assumption that the vineyard people that haven't sold their development rights are mainly hanging on to their property for the future and going to turn it into housing, maybe another one of these abstract judgments. The community is small enough, the parcels are small enough they should be addressed in here. I mean, this one hundred percent scenario is totally inaccurate. It's unacceptable with today's computers. I mean, let's get some real projections in here. Let's not try to scare everybody. Water supply, that's coming from Suffolk County Water, that's not a problem. Again, the full build-out scenario would lead tax revenue difficulties as there is a substantial tax deficit relating to school districts. Once again on Page 3-15, they obviously give you the worst-case scenario. Future trends, there has been a distinct lack of available public water and a necessity for subdivision and building approvals. Think that there were some recent statements by the Suffolk County Water Authority that there was water available for projects and I think that should be incorporated in this document. I think there was a letter that went out that made the papers less than -- between two and three months ago that addressed this scenario; and yet here they're saying that there's a distinct lack of it. I'm not sure that that's correct. Sociological impacts. Young working class, non-affluent, everyday people. Where are you going to put them? Five acre zoning with no consensus on affordable housing, with less -- I keep thinking of the M zone, but it's the HD zone. Hamlet Density zone, without the provision for these people for renters, for less affluent adults, my wife's aunt is now in a single wide in Riverhead, which she got in for $30,000. She COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 51 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 bought the unit. It's in Riverhead because there is no facility in Southold Town or any attempt to address people of this nature. So a lot of local people - I've lost tenants from our people in Mattituck, when the kids the kids would move out of the house, the husband died, the wife goes immediately to Rolling Woods or one of those other trailer parks in Riverhead. It's about $300 a month, and they're reasonably taken care of. Why not Southold? Why not Southold Town? Why can't we take care of our own? Why do we have to ship the elderly, the older, less affluent people out of Town? Colonial Village I believe has a six year waiting list; that's the only other facility that would accommodate these people reasonably, and I think they're right in there with around $600. I don't see any other suggestion in this document. So when you talk about providing a variety of housing for people, why not include all the people? Because just talking about one group, you're just doing a disservice to the community. I mean, why should my wife's aunt, who lived in Cutchogue all her life, who belongs to the lady's group at the Cutchogue Fire Department, and pitches il% at their chicken barbecue every year have to live in Riverhead when Southold Town could take care of her? So the sociological aspects of this are far greater than this document even comes close to. And there's some good stuff in here. I mean, I'm not going to say it's all bad because it's not. But there's a lot of clouded issues in here. The agricultural overlay zone, rural incentive districts. Then you get to the five acre upzoning and there it is, you get to a good start and[ conk it with a bad one. As a result, it is neither intended nor required that the GEIS address a proposed action and the operations and/er economics of any business includinq agricultural businesses in the vicinity on what would be considered competition between businesses Qn value markets or excess, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Therefore, in COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SENVICE (631} 878 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 52 order for a social economic impact to result, rezoning, in order to devalue the land, would have to such an extent that would affect the farmer's ability to continue to conduct business, leading to failure of such uses thereby altering the social economic character of the Town. If you believe that statement stands alone, then you didn't listen to the last five minutes of what I had to say. This is one small facet in the social economical order. The impact that this is going to have on the rest of the community, on the people that can't find land right now for their kids that are out buying, they're mortgaging their houses, they're doing everything they can to try and buy a parcel of land. And I don't know if any of you have been out on the market lately, but I believe the going rate is about two and-a-quarter, if you can find it, and that's not with a house on it. Houses are up to 350, and they are on converted seasonal homes, and some of them aren't even converted yet. I mean some of the smallest stuff that I have seen in the world has got a $350,000 price tag on it. That is a social-economic issue that is not addressed in this document and should be addressed. Where are the kids going to go? Where are the firemen going to go? Where are the carpenters going to go? Where is everybody that has a business going to get help? Who's going to mow the lawns of the affluent five acre owners, and where are they going to bus them in from? And if you want to know how that happens, it happened 20 years ago in Southampton. I had a friend, a friend of mine had the landscaping business over there, and he actually bought a small bus and brought in people from the Patchogue area to come and work for him. Is that where we're coming to? That is social-economic issues, that is not what this document addresses. So, my answer, because they say it is neither intended nor required that a DGEIS address the potential impact of the proposed action, it should be demanded; a full COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 53 1 2 3 4 5 7 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 sociological evaluation of where this is heading, in light of the fact that there is no Town commitment to affordable housing, there is no Town affordable housing policy, and there is a definite lack of M zones in much of the community, which shows up later, which is another inaccuracy because it them in almost every hamlet. true. says they have That's not SUPERVISOR HORTON: M zones or AC zones? MR. PENNY: HD. Old Master Plan. Old plan pre '89. M zone just sticks in my mind. The infamous case of Montgomery County, five acre zoning. I think we've heard just about enough, but I had one question on that. In Montgomery County, is AC, Agricultural Conservation, intermingled with R-80 the same as Southold Town? Now the gentleman that I spoke to in the Town that addressed you earlier, said no, it is not. That would be another reason for bringing it in as a comparison because it has absolutely no relation to the same zoning that we have in Southold Town. Somebody dropped the ball on this one. I don't think we need to address Baltimore in 50 acre zoning or Napa Valley in 40 acre zoning or even Talbot County with 20 acre zoning, but it can sure he done, and I think you'll find on there they probably had a operation in just a phone call, or look on the internet, you can sure as heck find out. RID, sounds like a good thing? The Town must preserve balance, on Page 3-31, balance and growth management for the interest of the overall Town, including[ landowners and farm businesses. The Town can achieve preservation, 80 percent through mandatory clustering on one acre lots in connection with 60 percent density reduction by upzoning from two to five acre equivalent yields. Such action would bring the Town mcre in conformance with its comprehensive plan. What comprehensive plan has recommended this? I'm sorry, it's back there. Is this the Town Master Plan, that is the comprehensive plan? COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE {631) 878~8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 54 Until that Master Plan is changed, that is the document. So I don't know what you're bringing this into conformance with, and if you're saying that it's in conformance with the Southold Comprehensive Implementation Strategy, that's one thing, but it's not. But the Master Plan clearly addressed two acre zoning, not five. Page 3 32: It is important that options be available for land use such that the equity in the land is maintained and the goals of the Town are met. That's master planning. Again, that was the Master Plan; that is the Master Plan and until you change it, that's the gospel of this town, whether people want to identify with it or not. I really think it should be reprinted, the background studies, the summary, and I think it should be distributed to all the Board members and be required reading for every member that comes on Board. The Town has a Master Plan, and it's not being used. In summary, the potential social-economic impacts to the Town of an upzoning are not anticipated to be significant. There again, I'm not going to bore you with that one again, but it's not true. In addition, solely economic impacts are not required to be addressed under SEQRA. I'm not asking for the solely, parcel by parcel what's going to happen to a farm. I'm going to ask what's going to happen to the whole town when this happens, and I would like to see that addressed in the FEIS. Let's see them do that in one paragraph. I understand under the Page 3 33 accessory apartments and use under the zoning code revisions, that while the Town may be calling for clustering in certain areas, the Suffolk County Department of Health Services is coming out with a different opinion, and I think that opinion from the Suffolk County Health Services should be incorporated into this document. I mean, if the Town is going to go in a direction, is it a direction that is viable, or is it just a direction to go somewhere? Review zoning map, Page 7, Master COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 55 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 1'7 18 19 2 0 21 2 2 2 3 2 5 Plan again, no significant adverse impacts are expected, Page 3-35. Upon reviewing -- given the comprehensive nature, changing in the zoning map will affect individual properties, and will be reviewed for consistency with comprehensive planning efforts and overall needs of the Town. Given the comprehensive nature of this initiative and the well-grounded support in prior studies as well as analysis contained in this strategy, no significant adverse impacts are expected. That's an unfounded statement. I will really like to see that qualified. I mean, how you can say that some of the things that I've mentioned are not going to have an impact on this town as a whole, transfer of development rights, when the Planning Board rejects the first time around, it goes to the Suffolk County Planning Commission, and then it requires a majority plus one to pass it. We're talking way down the road before TDRs get close because you're so far behind on them. The Town has never attempted a serious TDR program, and yet, you're suggesting that this is for the future ef the town. I mean, you're ready to put in five acre zoning now, and then, if you address affordable housing in three to four years and maybe TDRs in five years, then maybe we'll get something accomplished. But why not put them all together and de it the right way? HALO zones, there again, bring a map and shew the areas and what you're going te put in these HALO zones, shew us where you're going; how it's going and where it's coming. Make it big enough so we can see it. Page 3-38. Further with regard te affordable housing, the Town is considering the potential to use land acquired subsequent te the completion ef the build out analysis for the transfer of development credits for affordable housing. That's quite a statement. I'd like te see some support from that statement and where it came from. I mean, there's nothing in this document to support it, and is there a Town Beard policy somewhere COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 8'/8 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 56 supporting affordable housing of any kind? Hey, I'm getting low on clips, guys. Okay, affordable housing policy, Number 30, Page 3-42. Due to the demand for housing, the Town cannot provide sufficient housing -- a sufficient housing supply to affect the price of housing to such a degree as to make the prices affordable for the target group. That's baloney. That's absolutely baloney. How many people have been before you when offering out stuff from $175,000 to $200,000 and a small affordable housing project, and have been denied by the Board in a $350,000 market? Nobody I believe has ever updated, since 1989, the affordable housing prices in the Town code. There was a way to set the prices. It should be established. It should be updated every year by the Board. It's never been done. It's a document that has died since 1989 or 1990 or wherever we got through. I put it in and got trashed over it, and all that other stuff. I mean, come on, if you're going to do something, it's there, but it's probably the least observed section of the Town Code book. This further leads to the unfortunate reality that it may be difficult if not impossible to house all the individuals comprising various income levels that would like to reside in the Town. There are several aspects of affordability, if houses were provided at affordable levels this addresses one aspect, the price to purchase a home. The second aspect is the cost to maintain and pay real estate taxes. Both require attention but this further illustrates the limitations of planned affordable housing. My notes on here say '~B.S." I don't think I have to describe that. I mean, if you don't like affordable housing, just go with the center section of 3-42 and let's get it over with 'cause they're saying it can't be done, and I say it can. It has been and it will be done in the future. And once again, a diverse program is needed to address the Town of Southold affordable housing needs; any program is better than none. That's my COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-$047 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 ? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 comment. Under, they play a wurst-case scenario ef affordable housing and taxes on Page 3 44, totally overstated, an impact discussion. I mean this document is like an excuse not to create affordable housing. I'm not going to read all ef it. Developing water supply master plan, I think you have eno. I think you have one, and you have a map that's been passed on by the Town. I think that's what Henry Rayner was addressing today. I think there's a map, and there's meetings and all of that could be included. I knew Howard's saying start over again. I don't think so, that's net necessary. This stuff could ]nave been incorporated into the document. BOARD MEMBER: We don't have a water Master Plan. MR. PENNY: You have an adopted map. You have a map that the Town prepared that's the Suffolk County Department ef Health Services is following. MR. ROMANELLI: That restricts where the water is going, but it's not a master plan. It's under constant dispute. It needs to be addressed. Se that's why it's in there. It's a mains map. It's net the answer to the answer. It's net the master plan that you want to claim it te be. So keep looking. MR. PENNY: Ne, but it's a start. It's a start. Build on it. Here they talk about it; build en it. This could have been going on. We just didn't start. You guys have been hearing about - how many years have you been hearing about affordable housing? Water resources. This is a good eno, Page 3 51 as development would occur in areas distant from agricultural use, the potential fur impact to irrigation water would be reduced. I think if you digest tbat one, you realize that something is radically wrong because in the Master Plan study and any study that I've ever seen on consumptive use in housing has been far less than the consumptive use in farmland. As a matter of fact, if you give me a second, I got paper clips in ali my COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION ~SERVICE~ (631) 878 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 notes, so -- consumptive use is 240 gallons per household per day based on a three person household utilizing 80 gallons per capita per day for all areas except those serviced by the Village of Greenport. Consumptive use for acreage in agriculture is 380 gallons per acre per day. Should be a little amending going on on that one. Community character. Reducing the level and geographic distribution of new residential development in comparison to the full build-out scenario will have the effect of reducing the potential for adverse impacts to the rural quality and character of the town by maintaining -- so what they're saying is basically build up your hamlets. Move everything out of the outside and build up your hamlets. But you don't have to go the five acre zoning to do that. I mean, that was part of the plan. That's in the Master Plan now to build up the hamlets and several of the HD zones, the old M zones that were removed were within those parameters, and so the Town's vision continually changes, but the Master Plan remains the same. Land use, zoning and plans. While the proposal will change the pattern of land use in the Town, the goal is to achieve for a valuable aesthetic and economic, social and other characteristics of resources that would otherwise not be achievable absent the proposed action. Therefore, it is consistent with the Town's comprehensive plan, the proposed action has been formulated specifically to implement a number of recommendations continued in numerous Town use plans and studies over the past 20 years and therefore is consistent with the Town's comprehensive plan including preservation of farmland, preservation of character and addressing community's needs. Once again, this is referring to all of the unadepted documents are in conformity with the Master Plan, and that is not a true statement; that is absolutely untrue and should be removed. No action alternatives, compliance with Town goals. On Page 8-12, ne action COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE {631) 875-8047 2 3 4 5 9 t 0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 alternative does not meet the Town's goal of preserving farmland and open space, existing zoning and land use controls allow as-of right development to occur throughout the Town's most important space and agricultural areas. Then they go on with it. The Town's goal, if it's going to be changed should be reestablished. The Master Plan should be reestablished. If you're going to take areas and you're going to change the concept in here by the use of another zone to do it, the Master Plan calls for the two acre zone to accomplish this. Three special --on Page 8-5 -- three special residential zoning districts exist in the Town. The HD Hamlet Density Residence district was designed to provide a mix of housing types and a level of residential density appropriate to the areas in and around the major centers - the major hamlet centers, particularly Mattituck. Can somebody tell me where the HD is in Mattituck, in Cutchogue there's one, Southold, an undeveloped HD? I don't think so. Orient? Never was one, and the Village of Greenport, well, we're not addressing the Village of Greenport. If you want to stay outside the Village of Greenport there was one, which is -- there's a couple up in that area that have marginally survived. In fact, lands that have been zoned HD were determined to be appropriate for development; therefore, a planning the 80-60 reductions to the HD zones would be inappropriate. Ail of this, this is a bit of a fallacy here because some of these areas don't exist and your maps will show it. Here's where -- this is where it really gets off on Page 8-5. Portions of R 40 are actively farmed while others are intensively developed. The 80~60 reductions would be appropriate in certain areas zoned R-40 while they would be inappropriate in others. When did R 40 get into this? This is the only mention of R 40 that I'm aware of and why did that get into this document? It's another illusion that people don't know. Now people are going to hear this, they're going to see this and they're going to say, hey, you COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6O know, geez, I thought it was just the two acre guys. Now they're going after the one acre guys. Remove all other uses other than agricultural from allowable uses from the AC district on Page 8-8. To reasonably regulate subdivision and the development of this land and further the same purpose while honoring the legitimate interest of farmers and farmland owners. I don't think that's what I've heard so far. I don't think there's a farmer here that says their legitimate interests have been considered in any way, manner, shape or form. The initial planning concept behind the AC district involved the creation of a strictly agricultural district. Now we're going into past history again. That is not the Master Plan. The subdivision and subsequent residential development would be prohibited. When the AC was created and adopted, the prohibition of nonagricultural uses went abandoned. Today the AC is exactly identical to the R-80. That's absolutely true. That part is true. Page 8-10, 8.6, consider upzoning to a minimum lot size for yield size larger than five acres. That may be an area where that fits. You may have a sensitive area, you may have an area of environmental concern, but I, you know, just to say that you may use it at some time in the future, I don't believe it exists in the Town zoning code. If you're going to put it in the Town zoning code, that documentation, somebody should be prepared so that people can see what's coming. Just mentioning it in here as a perpetual consideration, somebody may - somebody~s going to grab this document two years down the road and none of you may be here, and say, hey, that was in that big planning study they did. Let's pull it off the shelf and throw in ten acre zoning. They have already done the SEQRA on it. Consider five acre upzoning of a larger area than proposed. 8 14, 8.7.1 description of alternatives. The alternative involves expanding the five acre upzoning to additional COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 '7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 lands primary portions of the R-40 district that have historically and continue to be used for agriculture or as open space. I don't think that anybody knows that this is in there. I don't think that there's people out there. I think if there's a farmer that has a parcel that's zoned R-40, thinks that he's safe, but according to this document, this could pop up at any time. And I don't think that that's a proper way to approach things. 8 16, consider creation of an R-60 zoning district to apply to R-40 land; do you know what that means? Make the R 40s nonconforming. I will bring a map to the next meeting from the Town Master Plan. And in it, I have highlighted in different colors the different zones that were rendered nonconforming by the Master Plan. To which I refuse to pass the Master Plan until the Town put something in the Town code that said that these people could develop according to the side yards and the setbacks that existed at the time that these lots were created. I said, otherwise you're making the whole Town nonconforming. It sounds innocent enough. It sounds like a simple little planning tool. But if you read the Jones study, you'll know what comes as a result of that. Somebody grabs a hold of that and says okay, now we've got a wedge, now we've got a level, now we've got a way to make people pay for anything more than they have got. And that was the whole gist of the Jones study. Now you're talking about throwing another zoning concept into here, which is the poor R-40s that happen to be left as Now you're going to up them to ~ 60, and the restrictions in R-60 will be entirely different than they are in R-40. And that I don't think that this is seriously addressed, this concept, is seriously addressed on the impact to the homeowners of this whole concept. And I think that if the Town is going to do some serious planning, they should go back, and when I show you the map and you see the colors, about 80 percent of the Town COURT REPONTING AND TRANscNIPTION · Y, RVECE (631) 8'78-8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 62 is in a nonconforming zone. And I found out later 'cause I was naive about that. I just addressed the nonconforming issue, and I fought it for six months. I mean, we had David Emilita here from Southampton, and he's going on about it, and I said, fine, whatever you want to do, but if you don't put that in the Town code, then I was the fourth vote on the Master Plan, well, an administration after ours took that out again so that now everybody is nonconforming, but I fought for what I feel was right at the time, and I feel it's still right today, and I still don't think you should do it to more people and you ought to correct it for the people that are already done. Consideration of an affordable housing overlay district. We have it. It exists. My notes here say I don't think he understands. I don't think anybody's read it or understands it. It is an overlay district. It can be applied within a mile - half a mile, I believe, of the post office in every hamlet. Just a point in here is that the only way that this can be -- affordable housing can be triggered is in response to an application, and that's true. Now, if the Town Board wants to take the nerve and designate something within that overlay zone or anywhere within that overlay zone an AHD zone, for God's sake, do it. But every time somebody comes in with an idea, the word goes up, that guy's a developer, he can forget it. Look what he's going to do. He's going to take four acres and put seven, eight units on it. That's what affordable housing is all about. Smaller land is the only way it works. Either that or get some rental going but you got to do something. So this whole Page, 8-20 has to be rewritten in the context of what exists in the Town of Southold because whoever wrote this page doesn't know. And the next page, the property eligibility guidelines will be crafted so that the affordable housing overlay zones will be applicable in appropriate portions of the Town such as within the hamlet centers of within COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 ' '" ' 63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 1'7 1:3 19 20 2 iL 22 2 i/ 25 the proposed HALO zones. Such guidelines would prevent inappropriate rezoning for the location of affordable housing project in an area where context of farming would arise. Now that absolutely contradicts what it says on the other page, because that is what we have, and this is saying what we should have. We have it it's there. Page 8 21, top of the page. Consider allowing farm labor housing through incentives. They address the need for farm labor housing. There is a need for farm labor housing. 'Cause farm labor housing is cutting into the legitimate young working class people in this Town. If you let the farmers do something like they do in Riverhead, you go down and look at Half Hollow Nursery, they have got some units out there for their help, they fit very nicely, back off the road. It's a pretty white building an L-shape, God knows how many units are in it. It's a beautiful thing, but this thing here is allowing farm labor housing only on farms through incentives, but it doesn't mention any incentives. You just left me on that one. I mean, if you're going to address incentives, please put them in. Okay. Way to the back, the Chinese menu, description of proposed action, the Town Board needs to initially consider all prior recommendations with an emphasis on those that protect farmland, open space, promote affordable housing and preserves natural resources. The Board may prioritize, narrow down or select implememtation tools that best achieve the goals of the Town. The basic goals - and they go back and reiterate the basic goals again. Those goals have always been there guys. Those goals are not HD. Those goals are in these documents right here. What you're doing is you're not creating anything new. You'we taken, a very, very complicated issue, you broiled it down into a town-dividing issue of do we put in five acre zoning everywhere in the R 80s, and that's the only concept that's really going te be followed up, and the town knows it. They knew it. COURT REPORTING PkND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 64 Get a plan going. Let's end this fighting. Let's end this divisiveness, At the last meeting I suggested that eno person in favor of it and eno person against it should go out back and dual. It would be easier on the town. Get it ever with. Winner take all. Let's get it over with. Everybody will agree, whoever gets shot, we bury him and it's ever with. The ether guy wins and the town goes on. We'll take our chances but te carry en like this at these meetings, time after time after time after time, it's ridiculous. I mean, you get farmers fighting for their rights. Was it any different when I was in here fighting for my business property on the County Read 48 studies; was it any different? Do the farmers feel any different than the business community does? I don't think se. When you take the underlying value of a person's land out from under him, you're hurting him. And just remember one thing, there are five acre people, there are one acre people, there are half acre people. The whole town cannot handle one zone. As a matter ef fact, and I don't -- and this is abstract but the Mt. Laurel decision which is what caused the Master Plan in Seutheld in the 1980s when John Nickels was en the Beard, they put it through two acre as a holdover, and then they started the Master Plan process because the Mt. Laurel decision in Jersey said you can't blanket the Town with eno zone. Now that's a reach. That's a reach right now, but believe you me, it's still the same concept. And I think if you read the Mt. Laurel decision, you will find out that your job as a Town Board member is to provide what this document says, a variety of housing for different sociological, different economic level people. And let's all work together. This isn't your Town, it's not my Town, it's our Town. It belongs te everybody, let's share it. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Thank you Mr. Penny. I am going to make a motion to adjourn, but COURT REPORTING AND TRP~NSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878-8047 65 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 MS. SWEENEY: May I comment on Mr. Penny's? SUPERVISOR HORTON: You can address the Board. MS. SWEENEY: I worked in Southampton for about five years and had to drive from Mattituck to Southampton. I had to be there by eight in the morning, if I didn't leave by 6:00 in the morning to get to Southampton, which from my house to Southampton was 23 miles, two hours because Sunrise Highway becomes a parking lot from six in the morning, working people coming in to there, and I know all the short cuts and everything going onto Montauk getting off at Hampton Bays, nothing worked. It was a nightmare and if it was a nightmare -- and I've been retired, I worked in a drug store there - I've been retired about a year and-a-half -- if it was a nightmare then, now it's unbelievable. It's five acre zoning that they put in Southampton Town was unbelievable. Nobody can live there that works there will be, I guess, trying to get over there in the winter time, not in the summer time, in the winter time, try and get over to Southampton within two hours in the morning. I dare you. SUPERVISOR HORTON: Thank you Mrs. Sweeney. Motion to adjourn. MS. SWEENEY: I still love you. I always love you. SUPERVISOR HORTON: We've adjourned this meeting. I thank you all for watching this Town Board meeting. We do appreciate your participation and thank you all for attending. (Time ended: 8:25 p.m.) 22 23 24 25 COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE (631) 878 8047