HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-04/20/2005Albert J. Krupski, President
James King, Vice-President
Artie Foster
Ken Poliwoda
Peggy A. Dickerson
Town Hall
53095Route 25
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971-0959
Telephone(631)765-1892
Fax(631)765-6641
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
Wednesday, April 20, 2005
6:00 PM
RECEIVED
,IU~ 3 0 ~005
old Town Cleri,
Present were: Albert J. Krupski, Jr., President
James King, Vice-President
Artie Foster, Trustee
Kenneth Poliwoda, Trustee
Peggy Dickerson, Trustee
E. Brownell Johnston, Esq.,
Assistant Town Attorney for Trustees
Lauren Standish, Secretarial Assistant
Heather Tetrault, Environmental Technician
WORK SESSION:
Board of Trustees 2 April 20, 2005
MS. MOORE: For the record, Pat Moore. This is Dr. Teperman.
DR. TEPERMAN: Hello.
MR. JOHNSTON: David, could you spell your name for the
record?
MR. CICHANOWlCZ: Dave Cichanowicz, C-I-C-H-A-N-O-W-I-C-Z.
MS. MOORE: We submitted to you a landscape plan. As you
know from our last meeting, we had a local gentleman who was
supposed to go in and clean up the garbage, went in and
actually cut some trees that he wasn't authorized to cut. I
gave you at the request -- a good suggestion by Brownell
was to give you records of my client's continued
relationship with Mr. Cichanowicz, so it was obvious that he
is his landscaper. They've been working together for some
time. And it seemed kind of out of the ordinary to have
Chris Moore come to the property and start doing some major
work on the bluff when, in fact, Dave has been the one who
has been working on the property. That supports our
position that Chris Moore really had no authority to do what
he was doing, and now we're here before the Board correcting
something that was done illegally; but nonetheless, it's in
our client's best interest to make sure the bank is
protected. We had no qualms about submitting a plan to you
that makes sure that we revegetate or vegetate, supplement
the existing vegetation to make sure that it's safe and not
jeopardized. We have a lot of investment in that property,
both the house as well as the existing structures on the
bank.
And we're here to talk to the Board informally
because we do have a code violation. Chris Moore also has a
pending code violation. He's dealing with it his way; we're
dealing with it our way, and we've reserved our right to go
after Chris later civilly; that's between my client and
Chris.
Dave gave you a plan, and, Dave, why don't you
describe the plan?
MR. CICHANOWlCZ: I think you're all familiar with the
property and with the disturbance of the bluff. As such,
some pretty major native cherries and such were primarily
what got cut down right to the stumps, and so it exposed the
b~uff pretty well.
We're not looking to remove anything. We're looking
to add to the existing bluff. We are going to put erosion
jute down on the entire bluff where there's any possibility
of putting erosion jute down. Then we're going to plant
heavily with Cape American beach grass and Rosa Rugosa
across the entire bluff. As a portion of the plan, ~ have a
2
Board of Trustees 3 April 20, 2005
recommendation of six to eight inch on center on the beach
grass, 24 inch two gallon on the Rosa Rugosa in pockets just
so it looks a little more native looking, not just a bluff
of beach grass.
That's our proposal to put it back and make it
actually stronger than it was before.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: You mentioned before that quite a few of
the larger trees were removed; are you replacing any of
those?
MR. CICHANOWlCZ: No. It would be literally impossible to
put a tree back in, it would never stay. I don't think I
could ever stake it and maintain it there. It would
actually disturb the bluff more.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It would destabilize it more than it is
now.
MS. MOORE: Yes, they don't recommend trees because of the
wind.
MR. CICHANOWICZ: If it was there, fine, leave bt alone,
don't touch it. But now that it's gone, I would not suggest
putting anything that's going to grow into a large mass and
cause possible future erosion. You're better with a Iow
growth material.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I was just questioning because I saw it
was quite obvious.
DR. TEPERMAN: I want to speak a little bit. I want you to
know I'm very upset of the cutting; my wife and I are very
upset. I am a surgeon, but a transplant surgeon. I take
things out and I put them in. I don't just cut, and I'm
dependent on things working.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Replace them.
DR. TEPERMAN: I was just out to the site and some of this
stuff is coming back. I am very upset, but I will do
whatever you say to do. We were already planning to plant
some stuff on the bluff, and stuff for the beach house when
we talk about, when I indicated someone to do something, I
take responsibility. I never told this gentleman to cut
anything. He never showed up for me, and then I found out
he was cutting. I filed an action against him with the
police department. I think this is terrible. But whatever
you want me to do, I'll do. I just want to settle it and
Dave will plant whatever you think we should plant. I want
to be a good member of this community.
MS. TETRAULT: You may want to see a little more woody like
some junipers, just because the trees that are coming out
and the beach grass and the Rosa Rugosa are just Iow
growing.
Board of Trustees 4 April 20, 2005
DR. TEPERMAN: Those trees are -- I was just out there --
they're screening back, not all of them are gone. I'm not a
tree expert, but I think this is working. If you don't like
it, we can plant some more.
MR. CICHANOWICZ: We can certainly put juniper in, if that's
what your criteria is, it will be fine, in pockets of, I
think that would be better. You kind of want to layer.
From my experience with erosions, you want to try to stop
when things are going to start to slide, you need something
a little harder in different areas, so you kind of want to
do bands across; we could do something like that, and that
would be fine too. I'll be happy to amend that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I would think a lot of that cherry, a lot
of that clearing would come back.
MS. MOORE: They're coming back.
DR. TEPERMAN: I'm happy to plant.
MR. ClCHANOWICZ: We can do both.
MS. MOORE: I asked about a tope, I got the phone call today
about a topographic survey, and I asked Dave if he needed a
topographic survey for the planting plan -- you can ask
him.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Not for the planting plan, what we need is
for the --
MS. MOORE: For the other? Well, I asked the surveyor, what
you had asked for is one foot contours, and I called the
surveyor, and he said this doesn't make any sense.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Two foot contours. I think in the code,
it's two foot contours.
MS. MOORE: I think the point is we had existing structures,
and I gave you a survey on pre work done on the structures
and then post, and it's identical. The structures we're
in-kind/in-place. So the contours are really completely
irrelevant to the structures that were built there because
it's what is today, the contours and they haven't changed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh There are a couple different issues.
MS. MOORE: Tell me what is your purpose for the contours?
Just so I know how to explain to him.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh One is the deck at the top in the coastal
erosion, that wouldn't be allowed at all. We couldn't allow
a deck over that.
MS. MOORE: But that was existing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But you also submitted a survey showing
the deck above the toe of the bluff.
MS. MOORE: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's in the file.
MS. MOORE: These are the surveys I submitted.
Board of Trustees 5 April 20, 2005
The first survey was dated April 29, 2004.
DR. TEPERMAN: These decks have always been there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But the location changed. Here's the one
showing the deck above the top of the bluff.
MS. MOORE: Which one is that?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: G.
MS. MOORE: But is this done by a surveyor?
DR. TEPERMAN: I've never seen that survey. That's never
been the survey I got with the house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's what you submitted.
MS. MOORE: Honestly I don't know where that one came from.
DR. TEPERMAN: That's not the survey we got with the
house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We didn't put it in. Salamone residence.
MS. MOORE: I'd have to go back and look and see which one
is Salamone.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This one also shows no decking around the
beach house, and it doesn't show a retaining
wall. Something like a retaining wall in the back -- the
reason we take this seriously, and it might seem like we're
trying to pick on you or something --
DR. TEPERMAN: No, I want to make this right.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But we've seen some real nightmares on the
Sound when it comes to coastal erosion, and we've seen
people lose a substantial amount of property, and then also
damage their neighbor's property because of structures that
are built in inappropriate areas.
DR. TEPERMAN: I want you to know that I bought this house
and never saw this survey.
MS. MOORE: Right. And Salamone residence is back in '74,
'75, and it looks like it was used by -~ I don't even know
who.
DR. TEPERMAN: This is the survey that the lawyers said I
had to have before I bought the house. This is the survey
right before I had bought the house in May, and this is the
next survey, and it's exactly -- there are little
differences, they found -- this house was a mess. No one
lived in it for years; that retaining wall, a deck in the
back of the house was under two feet of garbage, disgusting,
sand and bierakes (phonetic) But it was there, it was in
disrepair, but it wasn't something that I made up.
MS. MOORE: This looks like it came from a Health Department
file from the Building Department from the microfiche. It's
not a survey that's as detailed as ours. It's based on a
Van Tuyl survey, which is a very old survey. It's
identifying sanitary locations, so they wouldn't have
Board of Trustees 6 April 20, 2005
identified to any degree of accuracy the existing structures
down on the beach. I don't know whether this was accurate
or not at the time. This was back '74, '75 by the Health
Department.
DR. TEPERMAN: I see exactly what you're saying. There's
another survey now that shows that there's a retaining wall
here and a deck. And you're absolutely right, this stuff
was under garbage and junk, but that is a difference.
MS. MOORE: I checked with the surveyor today and he said,
no, it was there.
DR. TEPERMAN: But it was under junk. This deck, they were
all there. But I can understand someone not having seen
that because when they showed it to me after they got rid of
the junk, I said, wow, there was something there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All that has to be resolved but we still
have an incomplete application. You still need the
contours on the survey to demonstrate and the coastal
erosion line has to be put on the --
MS. MOORE: The coastal erosion line, I apologize, I thought
it was on the survey already. So it's my fault for the CZM
line. I have asked Stanley to put it on. I spoke to him
today at 3:30, and it was so late, we didn't want to hold
you up in the office.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll be honest with you, believe me, we
want to resolve this too. We have an agenda here that's
going to go on for another six hours.
DR. TEPERMAN: I want you to know this, and I appreciate
this, I am here to make things right. Maybe I have gotten
some bad advice before, and I did things, and I am sorry. I
want to make it right. I was given advice that I didn't
need permits to do this. But with that in play, I want to
ask you, there are some steps, I have an 85 year old mother,
who I was hoping to get out there, those steps can't be up
to anybody's code or anything. I can't walk down them with
my kids, and they're falling apart, and they go down to the
beach. There's no railing there.
MS. MOORE: It's a railing to the knee.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We were there.
MS. MOORE: You saw that. I think when I was talking to Ed
Forrester, he suggested that we incorporate that into the
permit because it does need to be replaced, and rather than
having another incident --
DR. TEPERMAN: I'm not doing anything.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You have to apply for everything.
MS. MOORE: We included it in the permit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But I think what's central to this is the
Board of Trustees 7 April 20, 2005
spirit of the Coastal Erosion Law, with all the structure on
the bluff, including the deck at the top -- and that's the
first thing that jumped out on us when we got there besides
the guy with the chain saw -~ but the first thing that
jumped out on us was the deck over the bluff, which under
Coastal Erosion is really a problem because it destabilizes
the bluff, you lose the vegetation on the bluff, and that
leads to a lot of problems.
MS. MOORE: I understand that. But do you understand that
the Coastal Erosion Law only came into effect in '91, I
believe. Any structures that were existing prior to that
are grandfathered. He took a grandfathered structure and
repaired it in-kind/in-place. Those are things that every
day you get an application in and you approve.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh You have to show us that.
MS. MOORE: I can do it by way of-- you want a '91 aerial,
I'~1 get you a 91 aerial.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That would be --
MS. MOORE: That I could order.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I thought we looked at aerials for this.
MS. MOORE: I don't know. I don't have one.
MR. JOHNSTON: These are things, we can do this.
MS. MOORE: Well, no, I'd like to have it resolved so I know
what you need.
DR. TEPERMAN: I am happy to come here. I will come here
when you ask me to. I know that there are things on for
later, and I have to go back and operate. And there is
nothing more important than your job, and I appreciate your
protecting the coast. 'This stuff was there; it got
repaired, yes, but it was there. Just tell me what you need
so I don't have to keep coming back.
MR. JOHNSTON: One quick thing for the record, David, could
you, in your professional opinion as a landscaper for 20, 30
years whatever it is, what happened there from your
perspective by Chris Moore, or whoever, from your prior
visit out there?
MR. CICHANOWICZ: From the prior visit to the more recent
visit --
MR. JOHNSTON: What happened?
MR. CICHANOWlCZ: Most of the native cherries that were
growing had some fairly good height to them, were
chain sawed cut fairly close to the edge of the bluff, and
pretty much clean cut all the way across the bluff. I mean,
there wasn't any left to survive.
MR. JOHNSTON: In your experience, do these cherries
revegetate themselves or grow back?
7
Board of Trustees 8 April 20, 2005
MR. CICHANOWICZ: Yes, in most cases, yes.
MR. JOHNSTON: The rest was the observation of the
Trustees. I just wanted to get it into the record.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But also, it's a reasonable request, what
has to be done to resolve this whole thing? We need a survey
with two foot contours and coastal erosion line and we need
proof that the structure, or whatever structure was built
prior to '91, right?
MS. MOORE: Well, no, '91 is your jurisdiction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We need a survey with a coastal erosion
line and two foot contours, and we need proof of what
structure was there before the adoption of the Coastal
Erosion Code in 1991.
MS. MOORE: The adoption of the code was July of'91, I
think?
MR. JOHNSTON: We'll stipulate whatever the date of the
adoption.
MR. JOHNSTON: Pat, are you happy with that understanding?
MS. MOORE: I have my marching orders.
DR. TEPERMAN: May I ask a question? I clearly bought a
house with all this stuff; this is what the survey showed.
And it got repaired, but it's still there. So I don't know
what the survey showed 20, 30, 40 years ago. So if it's
there, I'm okay. If it's not there, then what happens?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Then you have to apply for all of it and
see how it's built, and see how it affects the bluff and the
coastal erosion.
MR. JOHNSTON: You have a very good attorney. She will
explain it to you.
DR. TEPERMAN: I just want you to know that when you buy
something and then you go through the Town, and I asked the
Town before I bought this, I said, please find the CO. They
said here's the code number. I said show me the piece of
paper. They said well, we wouldn't like to admit as the Town
that we have lost the C of O. I said, but there's a number
there, how am I going to buy this thing and figure out if
it's okay? So there are multiple lawyers, they all agreed
it's okay. They said these things are there. So you buy
it.
MR. JOHNSTON: That's your first problem, multiple lawyers.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Multiple lawyers. All right, thank you
very much.
DR. TEPERMAN: Thank you very much. If we get those things,
can this be resolved the next time?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I hope so. We don't want to see you
again, either.
Board of Trustees 9 April 20, 2005
DR. TEPERMAN: I want to enjoy my home. Thank you very
much.
PUBLIC HEARING
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, May 11,2005 at
8:00 a.m.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to approve,
TRUSTEE KING seconded. All AYES.
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 at 7:00 p.m.
WORK SESSION: 6:00 p.m.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON moved to Approve,
TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES.
I. MONTHLY REPORT: For March 2005, check for $7,219.35 was
forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town
Clerk's Bulletin Board for review.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh There's a list of SEQRA actions I will
read them all. Resolve that the Board of Trustees of the
Town of Southold hereby finds that the following
applications more fully described in the public hearings in
the Trustee agenda dated Wednesday, April 20, 2005 are
classified as Type II Actions pursuant to SEQRA Rules and
Regulations and not subject to review under SEQRA:
Christine Rivera -- SCTM#99-1-16
Charles Salice -- SCTM#104-3-1
Craig Rochon -- SCTM#138-2-20.1
Peter & Grace Gorman -- SCTM#14-2-30.6
Frank Purita -- SCTM#97-2-19
Nicholas Cassis -- SCTM#45-6-9.1
C&L Realty -- SCTM#56-5-3.4
Peter Ruttura -- SCTM#78-7-12
Kevin & Margaret Whitrock -- SCTM#123-6-20
Peter Warns -- SCTM#126-5-2.1
Nicholas Aliano -- SCTM#83-1-11&12
LI Sound Oyster, LLC -- SCTM#140-1-23.1
Robert A. Macfarlane -- SCTM#136-2-6,7,8
Vincent & Carol Manago -- SCTM#118-4-10
Jo Ellen & William Ahmuty -- SCTM#53-6-10
Board of Trustees 10 April 20, 2005
Arnold Barton -- SCTM#111-9-13
George Kofinas -- SCTM#110-7-18.1
Matt-A-Mar by the Bay, LLC -~ SCTM#117-8-18
Monica Kreischer -- SCTM#71-2-16
Sim Moy -- SCTM#90-2-1
Michael Zevits -- SCTM#88-6-18.5
Enzo Morabito -- SCTM#83-1-9
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That is a motion; I need a second.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor?. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And resolve that the Board of Trustees of
the Town of Southold with regard to the application of
Mat-A-Mar by the Bay, LLC more fully described in the public
hearing Item 25 of the Trustee agenda dated Wednesday, April
20, 2005 is pursuant to the SEQRA Rules and Regulations
classified as an Unlisted Action. And be it
further resolved that the applicant is required to submit
Part I of the Long Environmental Assessment Form; and be it
further resolved that upon receipt of the Long Environmental
Assessment Form the Clerk of the Trustees is hereby directed
to a commence a coordinated review pursuant to SEQRA.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ali in favor? ALL AYES.
iV. RESOLUTIONS -- ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITS:
1. CHRISTINE RIVERA requests an Administrative
Permit to erect a split-rail fence between private property
and public beach. Located: 250 Sound Beach Drive,
Mattituck. SCTM# 99-1-16
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We looked at this in the field and I
believe we measured out to be 100 feet beyond the vinyl
fence. We'll allow 100 feet of split-rail fence to extend
beyond the vinyl fence.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm sorry, before we start in, the
beginning of the meeting aren't really public hearings;
however, if anyone has any comment they wish to make on any
of these actions, please don't hesitate, but please be ready
also, so we can keep moving along.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Any other comments? If not, I'll make a
motion to approve as described. TRUSTEE DICKERSON:
Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
2. Frank Uellendahl, Architect on behalf of EMILIA
& ILYA KABAKOV requests an Administrative Permit to
10
Board of Trustees 11 April 20, 2005
construct a first floor addition on the landward side of the
existing dwelling and to construct a second floor addition.
Located: 1700 Park Avenue, Mattituck. SCTM# 123-8-5
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I looked at this and there was some
planting that needed to be done, so I would like -- all of
the building was going to be done within the footprint.
MS. TETRAULT: She didn't send in a planting plan
that was good for what she was proposing to plant.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: If there are no other Board comments,
I'll approve it with the condition that the plantings be
done; is that all right with you? I'll make a motion to
approve the Administrative Permit to construct a first floor
addition to the landward side of the existing dwelling and
to construct a second floor addition with the condition that
the plantings know be done first and be inspected prior to
the permit being given.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
V. RESOLUTIONS-MOORING & ANCHORAGE/STAKES/DUCK BLINDS:
1. CYRIL LUKEMAN, JR. requests an onshore/offshore
stake in Narrow River, replacing Stake #6 for a boat no
larger than 18'.
Access: Public.
TRUSTEE KING: We talked about this, there was no problem.
I'll make a motion to approve.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
2. WILLIAM SAVINO requests an onshore/offshore
stake in Narrow River, replacing Stake #8, for a boat no
larger than 18'.
Access: Public.
TRUSTEE KING: I make a motion to approve.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
3. BRIAN BECKER requests a Mooring Permit in Town
Creek for a 19 foot boat replacing Mooring #64 with public
access.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve this one.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
4. ROLAND GRANT requests a Mooring Permit in
ll
Board of Trustees 12 April 20, 2005
Richmond Creek for a 16 foot boat, replacing Mooring
#93. Access: Public.
TRUSTEE KING: I thought we had some discussion.
MS. TETRAULT: We determined they had a dock.
TRUSTEE KING: How is that replacing the mooring?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't know, is the applicant here?
MS. STANDISH: There was a mooring there and now there --
TRUSTEE KING: They already have a dock, right?
MS. STANDISH: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I think we should find out if they're
using their dock. Can we table?
TRUSTEE KING: I make a motion we table this.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
VI. APPLICATIONS FOR AMENDMENTS/EXTENSIONS/TRANSFERS:
1. CHARLES SALICE requests an Amendment to
Permit 5020 to reconfigure the floating dock from its
present alignment to a straight linear configuration
extending out from the present catwalk and ramp,
perpendicular to the shoreline, and secured by three new
piles. Located: 2315 Pine tree Road, Cutchogue.
SCTM#104-3-1.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The Board looked at this in the field; we
did a lot of measuring, and because of the water depth we
couldn't see where the dock could go out much further and
not affect the channel there. I think it was the
inclination of the Board to deny the request because the
applicant does have a nice dock with good water. Any other
comment?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No, I agree.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't think there was a problem so much
reconfiguring as long as you stayed inside that pier
line. He would have to shorten the catwalk.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The problem was that the boat would stick
out. The proposal was for it to be turned.
TRUSTEE KING: We talked about shortening, pulling it back
in so it was the same length to maintain that pier line.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is the applicant here?
MR. SALICE: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Our concern because the channel is so
narrow there, that if you extend it out any further, you'd
be right out into the channel.
MR. SALICE: It only actually extends out eight more feet
and doesn't come near into the channel. The channel's
12
Board of Trustees 13 April 20, 2005
another 10, 15 feet beyond that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You have showed very deep water there the
day we were there for inspection.
MR. SALICE: Because, you see, there's a mooring all the way
out to the right of that that's right into the channel which
is a good 30 feet out.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We took photos actually from the
neighbor's dock to show the pier line to show you're right
in line with your dock to the dock south of you.
MR. SALICE: In line to what, ma'am?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: To the dock just south of you.
MR. SALICE: But that has nothing to do with the
channel. The channel is way out.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It has everything to do with
navigation. If you went out another 15 feet --
MR. SALICE: It's only going out eight feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: According to the plans here it shows it
going out 14 feet.
MR. SALICE: It couldn't go out 14 feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Then it shows a 30 foot boat on that,
which would bring it out even further into the channel.
MR. SALICE: The boat's going to come in closer to the
channel because it will be coming to the side of it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's not what the plans show that were
submitted and also the Board's concern about the pier line
is if you go out further, the neighbors will go out
further.
MR. SALICE: To the right of me they are way past me.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We took a picture from the neighbor to the
north.
MR. SALICE: What about to the south?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It includes the dock to the south; that's
what we wanted, we wanted the three docks to the south to
show the relationship.
MR. SALICE: Facing the docks to the right, they're past
where I am, and if the dock is 20 feet long and it's coming
in four feet and you're originally sticking out cause it's
20 by 6 you're only going out about eight feet, and the
channel is a good 30 feet beyond that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It doesn't show that on what's submitted
here; would you take a look?
MR. SALICE: Sure.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: See, what it shows, here's what you have
here. If you go out six feet and this is 20, so the
difference is 14 right off the bat, then you're showing
another ten feet with the boat, so you're another 24 feet
13
Board of Trustees 14 April 20, 2005
out.
MR. SALICE: I'm not the greatest with math. If you're
already out six feet this way and you're going back in five
feet because of the tides, what are you sticking out there
now?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It doesn't show that on the plan. It
shows the floats starting where the old float is now. It
doesn't show the float back.
MR. SALICE: It has to go back to go underneath the ramp.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I agree but what you're showing here goes
out another 14 feet.
MR. SALICE: Other than what --
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is this the dock you're talking about to
the south?
MR. SALICE: Yes, ma'am. This is not even near it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Which dock are you referring to?
MR. SALICE: There's one to the immediate right and then
there's one right past it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: If it was sticking out wouldn't it be
shown here?
MR. SALICE: There's another one immediately to the right of
that; to the left is Eugene Berger; to the right is two more
docks, one is right past this.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: What I'm saying is if there is another
dock here and you're saying it went out further, wouldn't we
be seeing that here?
MR. SALICE: There's one here (indicating).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We should see it, it should show up there.
MR. SALICE: It's been there nine years. I don't know where
you got the picture from.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We took the picture last week, this is off
Mr. Berger's dock.
MR. SALICE: This is off Eugene's dock?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
MR. SALICE: Then you were looking at my dock and then you
see this one further out there, that's half the distance of
the creek in front of my house, that's half the distance and
it's much narrower there, and it fronts right out here
someplace is a mooring.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If you want, we could meet you on the
site. May 11th around noon either before or after.
MR. SALICE: Sure.
TRUSTEE KING: Get the edge of the channel marked so he can
tell where the edge of the channel is.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh He's got soundings. But see on your
drawing it shows you going out another 14 feet, that's
14
Board of Trustees 15 April 20, 2005
what you submitted.
MR. SALICE: This side, what is this? This is the ramp. I
didn't write that. I made a sketch myself because I thought
that was all that was needed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Who submitted this?
MR. SALICE: This is what I submitted (indicating).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Then who submitted this?
MR. SALICE: I have no idea. It's stapled together with
this. Is that your signature?
MR. SALICE: That's no where's near mine.
MS. TETRAULT: You're talking about Eugene --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Somebody dropped it off yesterday.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'Ll come out on the 11th.
MR. SALICE: I didn't submit that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'll make a motion to table the
application.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
2. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of
JOCKEY CREEK TRUST CIO KATHLEEN DEVORE requests an Amendment
to Permit 6093 to remove 45 linear feet on the west end and
18 linear feet on the east end of the existing bulkhead and
replace same in-place using C-Loc vinyl sheathing.
Construct 112 linear feet of new bulkhead immediately in
front of the remainder of the existing bulkhead, again using
C-Loc vinyl sheathing. Project with will include a 15
non-turf buffer behind the new bulkhead. Located: 635
Lighthouse Lane, Southold. SCTM#70-6-30.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I looked at this and I believe the Board
looked at this, and I didn't see any problem going out in
front of the first 45 feet and the 18 foot would be more to
the west and the east end, and everything else will be --
excuse me, go out in front on the first 45 and go behind
on the last 18 feet and everything else go in front. Any
Board members have a comment?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is that clearly marked on the plans?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I don't think he redrew a plan, he just
described it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh As long as we're clear on what we're going
to vote on.
MR. COSTELLO: George Costello, representing the Devores. If
I could show you this plan, it's been revised.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We have a copy in the file. I'm inclined
to approve this as described. Any other comments, anybody?
if not, I'll make a motion to approve as described in the
15
Board of Trustees 16 April 20, 2005
new plan.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
3. LINDA S. SANFORD requests the last One-Year
Extension to Permit 5593 as issued on July 24,
2002. Located: 780 Private Road #17, Southold.
SCTM#81-3-27.1
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I have a note on this one.
MS. TETRAULT: The only thing was the hay bale line should
be written in on the plans.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve with the
condition that the hay bale line be put on the survey
plans. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
4. CRAIG ROCHON requests a Transfer of Permit #1534
and Permit #1067 for the existing docking
facility. Located: 5700 Skunk Lane,
Cutchogue, SCTM#138-2-20.1
TRUSTEE KING: I had in my notes he should apply for what's
there because it's different than what's on the permits,
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is the applicant here?
MS. TETRAULT: He called today and said he couldn't be
here. What I suggested he do is transfer the permit then
come in for an amendment for what he has or you can just
approve it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's fine. We'll do that. But he has
to come in and amend it before he does any work on it
because the permits are kind of - no, we didn't want to
transfer the permits for some reason.
TRUSTEE KING: There's some denials back in the history of
it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Maybe we'll just approve a new
structure. Why don't we do that, approve a new structure
based on what's there, based on a set of plans reflecting
what's currently there.
TRUSTEE KING: Rather than transfer it, we'll have him apply
for what's there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We could just approve what's there and
condition it on new plans. Brownell, do you think we should
deny the transfer and then approve the dock? Mechanically
how should we work that? We don't want to transfer the
permits because they go back a few years, but they're not
exactly what you call descriptive and clear, we'd rather
16
Board of Trustees 17 April 20, 2005
approve the structure that's currently thero based on plans
that show what's there.
MR. JOHNSTON: That's fine.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKi: Just deny the transfers. It gives them
what they have. We would approve the new permit.
MR. JOHNSTON: I have no problem on that.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion we deny the transfer and
approve the facility that's there based on plans accurately
depicting what's thero now. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Aye.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Aye.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Aye.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll abstain.
MR. JOHNSTON: Are you recusing yourself or abstaining?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Recusing myself.
MR. JOHNSTON: Kenny, could you state the reason for the
record of your recusal?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I dock my boat there.
5. En-Consultants on behalf of PETER TAGIOS &
ALETRA MONFREDO TAGIOS request a Transfer of Permit 5858
from James F. Grathwohl to Peter Tagios & Aletra Monfredo
Tagios, as issued on February 25, 2004. Located: 545
Williamsburg Road, Southold. SCTM#78-5-16.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I see Mr. Grathwohl here, are the Tagioses
here? No. I just wanted to make it clear in the transfer
that a great deal of time and effort that was spent by this
Board and the Town on the issuing of this permit. And I
just want to make sure that it's absolutely clear to the
person that's getting the permit that they understand the
permit exactly, and that they understand what this Board put
into it and what the Town put into it.
MR. GRATHWOHL: They understand completely. James F.
Grathwohl.
MS. WlCKHAM: I'm Abigail Wickham, I'm representing
Mr. Grathwohl in the transfer, and it has been made
extremely clear to the applicant's attorney by me that this
is for a transfer only. It's not an extension; it's not an
amendment. It's a transfer of what's there and I know his
attorney has reviewed it very thoroughly.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. And with that transfer we
could send them a copy of the permit in big red
letters. I'll make a motion to approve the transfer.
17
Board of Trustees 18 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's the end of the public meeting for
the moment. I need a motion to go off the regular meeting.
TRUSTEE KING: So moved.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor? ALL AYES.
VII. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM
THE TRAVELER WATCHMAN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF. FIVE (5)
MINUTES OR LESS IF POSSIBLE
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We have many pages of Wetland Permits
tonight. If anyone would like to speak, please come up and
use the microphone and identify yourself, and please keep
your comments brief and organized.
1. BARRY BALL & KIMBERLY VANZEE request a Wetland
Permit to remove debris, poison ivy and invasive nonnative
species and plant additional native species and ground cover
in the 50 foot wide buffer along the driveway. Repair the
bridge to island, renovate existing dock and boathouse;
remove debris and poison ivy and invasive species from
island at southern end of property and maintain by seeding
with grass and mowing; re-gravel driveway south of house as
needed; renovate the existing dock on the pond on the east
side of the house, and trim the phragmites along the western
edge of the pond. Located: 525 Cedar Birch Lane,
Orient. SCTM#15-8-26.8
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone here that would like to
speak in favor of the application?
MR. JOHNSTON: Is the applicant here?
MS. VANZEE: Kimberly Vanzee and Barry Ball.
MS. TETRAULT: Do you have a copy of what you faxed over
today?
MR. BALL: Yes.
MS. TETRAULT: Would you bring that up, please?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The only thing we're missing here is the
location of the planting on the plan.
MS. VANZEE: Within the 50 foot buffer. What Heather and I
18
Board of Trustees 19 April 20, 2005
talked about is in the fall thero were lots of sprouts
coming up, but wherever that isn't happening, we were going
to do additional ground cover. With regard to the DEC, what
they wanted was trees with 15 foot centers, meaning trees 30
feet apart or shrubs 12 feet apart and then ground cover
wherever there isn't ground cover coming up in that 50 foot
buffer.
MS. TETRAULT: You haven't finalized that with them?
MS. VANZEE: That's finalized, they aren't mentioning ground
cover, they're just saying the trees and shrubs at that
distance. So 12 feet apart shrubs or 30 foot apart trees.
MS. TETRAULT: Did they give you an actual number?.
MS. VANZEE: No, just that density throughout.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I think I'm inclined to approve this, but
I think what you're going to have to add to the survey is
that replanting area, it's really not on. Do you know what
I mean?
MR. BALL: Can we show you on the --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh You can show us, but you're going to have
to add it to it. You can come in the office and do it
yourself, but it should be shown on here and then
accompanied by your plant list.
MR. BALL: When the DEC comes out, they were going to call
us tomorrow and he'll give us numbers and we can add the
actual numbers to comply with their density requirements.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'd rather approve it tonight conditioned
with you coming in and drawing it on there. Is the Board
all right with that? Any other comments? I'll make a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'll make a motion to approve the
application with the condition that the replanting area be
shown on the survey.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor?. ALL AYES.
MR. JOHNSTON: Al, is trimming the phragmites, do you want
any photos or anything, is that an annual trimming?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'm sorry, thank you. The trimming of the
phragmites just mark the area where that's going to take
place.
MS. VANZEE: In discussing with the DEC, that was what was
always done to that property there. It's always been
trimmed. The DEC wants us to come back, if you have a
survey there, around the edge of the dock and not -- well,
trim it to just two feet off the ground. So actually, it's
19
Board of Trustees 20 April 20, 2005
going to be somewhat less than how our application is.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just show that, but show that area and
circle it, and then show it on the survey.
MR. JOHNSTON: Do you want any follow-up pictures six months
from now or a year from now; are you giving them permission
to trim the phragmite forever?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, as needed. And any CAC comment?
MR. JOHNSTON: Regarding the Ball application, does CAC have
any comment on that?
MR. MCGREEVY: There was no comment made about how often it
should be trimmed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think that's the Board's intent that it
would be trimmed as needed.
MR. MCGREEVY: I think it should be put in that the intent
be there to trim as needed.
MR. JOHNSTON: To two feet?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We generally say one foot but the DEC's
going to two?
MR. BALL: They even want us to plant trees to suppress
the phragmite, so we're going to do that too.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because mowing is the best way to suppress
growing.
MR. BALL: They want to go to two feet and plant trees to
provide shade.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If you keep them trimmed. But two feet is
going to be -- that's an odd, I never heard of that one.
2. PETER & GRACE GORMAN request a Wetland Permit
to construct stairs to the beach. Located: 440 Windward
Road, Orient. SCTM#14-2-30.6.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone here who would like to
comment on this application?
MS. GORMAN: Grace and Peter Gorman.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Thank you. Would anybody want to
comment? I looked at this on behalf of the Board. I see in
your description you'd like three landings, if you look to
the east of you there's a set of stairs, I recommend
basically copying what they have, a platform on top no
greater than 4' by 8' and a landing at the bottom no greater
than 4' by 8' once again.
MR. GORMAN: The landing at the bottom is really just to get
over to the beach and leave the beach grasses, some room
under it. And we have six grandchildren and it's a long --
it's a 20 foot drop; so I'd like just to sort of make sure
that they don't go tumbling down.
2O
Board of Trustees 2 l April 20, 2005
MS. GORMAN: We thought the landing would prevent disaster.
MS. TETRAULT: What is the size of the proposed platforms?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Larger than we usually give. At the
midsection they propose a 5' by 9'6" landing. It's our
normal protocol to go with a 4' by 8' foot platform, if any,
as far as a landing. You have 5' by 9' and-a-half it's one
foot shorter.
MR. GORMAN: It's a four foot stringer going down with a
post then a four foot stringer on the other side.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Right.
MR. GORMAN: That's what we're looking for.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: CAC recommends that the size of the
landings must comply with the Town's Wetland Code, a half
inch spacing between the deck on landing, so the rain can
drip through instead of gush off and erode your bluff; then
they recommend a 50 foot non-turf buffer beyond the bluff.
Would you like to explain?
MR. MCGREEVY: At the top of the bluff, landward be a 50
foot width that would act as a buffer; in other words, there
would be no planting within that 50 foot.
MR. GORMAN: There's grass there right now.
MR. MCGREEVY: We're trying to prevent any fertilizing of
any planting or grass. What we create is a 50 foot buffer
going landward from the bluff.
MS. GORMAN: So there's no grass there?
MR. MCGREEVY: There shouldn't be any grass there.
MS. GORMAN: What's going to be there?
MR. MCGREEVY: In other words, there shouldn't be any
fertilization of any kind of plantings. What we're trying
to do --
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: If I may comment? What the CAC does is
recommend environmental ideas.
MS. GORMAN: We're not going to fertilize way out there
anyway.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Let him finish.
MS. GORMAN: I'm sorry.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We're the Board that actually supplies
the permit, and I don't think the Board is going to push for
a 50 foot buffer in this case. We usually use that for
behind bulkheads.
MR. GORMAN: We're not interested in the bluff eroding.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Would the Board consider any type of
bluff nutrient?
MS. TETRAULT: Is it grass right up to the edge?
MR. MCGREEVY: Tuff up to the edge.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's about the least stable planting you
21
Board of Trustees 22 April 20, 2005
could make on the bluff.
MS. GORMAN: It's not on the bluff.
MR. GORMAN: The bluff is all vegetation.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's what keeps it stable.
MR. GORMAN: There isn't a sign of instability that's why we
started our stairs so far back from the bluff because we
didn't want to even begin to destablize that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You saw it Ken, make a recommendation.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I don't feel we need a non-turf buffer
although we don't approve of turf being right over the edge
of the bluff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh If you just back the mower up a new feet,
let it naturalize.
MR. GORMAN: We want that bluff to remain as stable as
anybody else.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to close the public
hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve a set of
stairs with three 4' by 8' platforms, and a non-mowing 10
foot strip up on top of your bluff. Located: 440 Windward
Road in Orient.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
3. SCHEMBRI HOMES, INC., requests a Wetland Permit
to construct a single-family dwelling, with on-site sewage
disposal system, and pervious driveway. Located: 1025
Seawood Drive, Southold. SCTM#79-7-63
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here who would like to
comment on this application? We have been there numerous
times, we had some problems with it, I think they have all
been rectified. It's a smaller house. The wetlands area's
been replanted very nicely.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He did one of the nicest replantings I've
ever seen.
TRUSTEE KING: He did a nice job. Any other comments from
the Board on this? If there's no other comments, I'll make
a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with the stipulation that dry wells be shown on the survey
for roof runoff on the house.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
22
Board of Trustees 23 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor. ALL AYES.
4. FRANK PURITA requests a Wetland Permit for
clearing within 100 feet of the wetlands. Located: 875
Eugene's Road, Cutchogue. SCTM#97-2-19
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone who would like to speak
on this application?
MR. LOHR: Good evening, Members of the Board, my name is
Donald Lohr, L-O-H-R, I'm an attorney, I'm here on behalf of
Frank Purita. My address is 50 Chades Lindburgh Boulevard,
Suite 400, Uniondale, New York.
Mr. Purita acquired this property in mid-February
and spent some time fixing the place, painting, refinishing
floors, planting privet, putting in a pea stone driveway and
so forth. Part of what he did also, Mr. Purita operates a
farm and vineyard in Southold, and he's sensitive to
environmental issues. One of his farmhands was down there
in connection with improving the property cleaning up the
yard. They removed old tires, barbecues, lawn mowers that
were behind his property, in addition, cleaning up debris
and leaves. In connection with doing that some of the
thistle bushes have been cut back, I don't need to
characterize what's happened, I know you've been down there
and are familiar with it. What he wants to do is just
comply with what's necessary, what the Board requires. He's
filed the permit, he's paid the permit fee, and we're here
really -- I think I spoke to I believe it was Heather earlier
today to find out what you had in mind in terms of
revegetation, if any.
MR. JOHNSTON: For the record, sir, what was your name?
MR. LOHR: Donald Lohr.
MR. JOHNSTON: Are you authorized to speak on behalf of the
applicant?
MR. LOHR: Yes, he's here.
MR. JOHNSTON: Do you authorize him to speak on your behalf?
Is there something in the record, the file that shows that
he can?
MR. PURITA: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're going to take oral comment first,
then we'll discuss anything else.
MS. WATSON: My name is Pam Watson. I live on Private Road
#7 in Cutchogue. I own the five acres that Mr. Purita is
here to apply for a permit for. As his attorney said, a
while back he bought this land, this whatever house from a
woman that died many months ago, and from what I understand,
he buys homes, and he came here and bought his new home and
23
Board of Trustees 24 April 20, 2005
started clearing the backyard, disregarded property lines and
my five acres is part of his backyard. I have my survey
here of the land that I own and that he is my new neighbor,
and he just started clearing my backyard, which is my
wetlands, a great deal of it. I also have pictures of what
he did. He disregarded property lines and just moved into
my land, and I didn't know about this because it's such an
enormous property, and I'll come up and show it to you, that
I can't see what the back neighbors are doing because it's
old growth forest and thorn bushes and vines, and it wasn't
until the neighbor got in touch with a neighbor and got in
touch with a neighbor that got in touch with me and said
this has been going on for three weeks. I know you work in
the city, you come home at 9:00 at night, you don't know
what's going on, but this guy bought this house and he's
clearing his backyard, which is okay, but he went into your
wetlands. He cleared a great deal of it and that's how I
contacted Mr. Purita, Frank, and I met with the man, and I
told to cease, stop doing what he's doing, he chopped trees
down, I didn't want my property disturbed. So I'm here to
deny his permit. I have pictures of the damage he did to my
property, and I also have my survey of the land that l own.
His backyard is also my backyard.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can we see your survey?
MS. WATSON: The Gambergs and then you have Buta and Watson,
which is me. This is the property, this is the properly
this fellow bought, this is all my five acres, my home is
here, this is all the wetlands. A little pond here,
right. And so this is what he cleared (indicating).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would you like to see?
MR. LOHR: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: For the record, we're waiting for a survey
for Mr. Purita. When we go out on a site you assume where
the property lines are, but that's not the best way to
operate. So you really need a survey to show where the
action was taken, not that we don't believe you.
MS. WATSON: I have pictures.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We were there a couple of times.
MS. WATSON: I have pictures of what he did.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We were there.
MS. WATSON: As soon as I met the man I said I don't want
any problems with the DEC, so the first thing I did was I
went down to the Southold Police Department, and I filed a
report with the Southold Police Department, and they came
over and interviewed Mr. Purita. And they interviewed him,
they surveyed him, whatever they did, they came back and
24
Board of Trustees 25 April 20, 2005
talked to me, they filed a police report, I have it, and, of
course, I have your notice here. Here's all the pictures
he's trespassed, invaded private property, cleared my
wetlands, disturbed the natural balance, my bunnies that are
out there, the birds, the frogs, the turtles, the deer. The
whole habitat.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: One of the things we saw, this is all your
property, the dumping, the brush, the leaves?
MS. WATSON: Let me explain something about this
property. It is so enormous, here's my house and here's
Frank here, this is unaccessible to me. I have to go to
through murky waters. I never knew who my neighbors were
here.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I am familiar with this.
MS. WATSON: You were probably one of those that trailed
through it. I never knew what my backyard looked like
here. I never disturbed. I never bothered it. I bought
the land in 1992, and I never bothered the land. It wasn't
until my neighbors called me that I was able to get around
to go meet Frank and see what he did. So what I have done
these past few weeks, I just made a little path down through
here, like a one person path, and I went threugh murky
waters or brackish waters, whatever you call them because
it's unaccessible to me, and I finally got through there
just last week. I never went back there. It was totally
unaccessible to me. In order for me to try to meet my
neighbors through my backyard without going through their
front door, I had to have big lopers and machinery to go
through there.
MR. LOHR: If I may make one comment on her comment, it's a
five acre tract; what we're talking about in terms of what
Mr. Purita did in cleaning that area, he didn't disturb five
acres.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're familiar with -- we were on the
site.
MR. LOHR: Several feet apparently over his property line.
MS. WATSON: It was beyond several feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's why we need a survey.
MS. WATSON: He cleared several feet but then he chopped
down trees beyond that several feet of clearing because
that's when he ceased work, I called him from New York City.
MR. LOHR: He didn't do much more than the
clearing you apparently did to make the path back there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Did you visit the site?
MR. LOHR: I visited the site.
MS. WATSON: They can come and see the path I cleared. I
25
Board of Trustees 26 April 20, 2005
did no damage to the environment compared to what was done.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Are there any properly indicators?
MS. WATSON: This is what I don't understand when he bought
this property from the woman that died and her family. I
said to him there were property markers there, you
disregarded property markers. Eventually he put them back.
When I met him, he staked that property again.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That orange ribbon?
MS. WATSON: That's me, I went in there.
MR. PURITA: I helped you put that up.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's your property.
MS. WATSON: When I met Frank because he had removed the
preper[y stakes that were there.
MR. PURITA: There were no property stakes.
MR. LOHR: Usually when there's a survey there's a monument,
either cement or steel in the ground. I went there and I
couldn't find any. That's why he's doing what he's doing.
MS. WATSON: He assumed nobody owned this land, is what he
told me verbatim, and I was just clearing it to look
pretty. I said you were misled. You bought somebody else's
home. Your first place of business should be to find out
where my property begins and ends. That's your first
obligation as a property owner, find out where the property
line is,
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: One of our concerns is the clearing, we'd
like to see everything -- we'd like to see the cleared area
replanted. We need owner's permission to do the replanting
and the same clearing that was done on this side of the lot
also, and we need that owner's permission to do
replanting.
Another concern of the Board was all the debris
that was piled in the back, the leaves and the brush after
the clearing.
MS. WATSON: That's not me.
MR. LOHR: That's not him either. Everything he did clean
out was dumped at the Town dump and we have receipts.
MS. WATSON: I have to agree with Frank. When I met Frank I
said I want you to put every leaf back, every branch, every
tree you took out. He said I can't, I took it to the dump.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Did you see the piles of leaves in the
back?
MS. WATSON: I know.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There's piles of brush that this Board saw
that were fresh cut in the back.
MS. WATSON: Some of them are fresh cut, I noticed that too.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And there's piles of brush on what I would
26
Board of Trustees 27 April 20, 2005
consider to be the east side that are fresh cut and dumped
in the woods.
MS. WATSON: Yes. But I'm only telling you what the man
said to me because when I said to him I want you to put
everything back three weeks ago when I called him from New
York City, that's where I work, he said I already took
everything to the dump. When I took pictures and went to
look at the land the other day, when I finally made my path
in the back, a lot of that stuff was fresh cut and you could
still see it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Absolutely.
MS. WATSON: I know you can. I was there Saturday.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Our concern was we want the material that
was dumped in the back cleaned out, and we want it replanted
to the Board's satisfaction and your satisfaction.
MR. LOHR: If I could be heard on that. What he was trying
to do was fix the house up, that's why he did the planting
of the privets and the pea stone driveway and the painting
and refinishing the floors. The stuff that they cleaned out
of there they did bring to the dump and they have the
receipts. He only took title to this in mid February.
There's three receipts for three different dates
where they dumped at the dump, I think over a thousand
pounds of stuff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It says rubbish, it doesn't say brush or
leaves.
MS. WATSON: I will tell you what Frank said. He said to me
you have an old barbecue back here, some tires. I took them
to the dump. I said I've never seen this land. This is the
first time since 1992 that I'm here. I never stepped foot
there. That was it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Those records are for rubbish not for
leaves or brush.
MR. LOHR: Why would he dump some stuff and remove other
stuff?
TRUSTEE KING: Because some is rubbish and some is leaves
and twigs and that's why they're specified at the dump.
MR. LOHR: If he's trying to improve the appearance of the
house, why would he dump anything there?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That was our question. We can't answer
that.
MR. LOHR: He didn't.
MS. WATSON: Some of the stuff Frank said he removed was
from the other property, which I don't own. My land ends
here. He said he found the barbecue and tires here. I
don't own that land. So this is where he found some of the
27
Board of Trustees 28 April 20, 2005
pipes and water pipes and barbecue and tires. This wasn't
mine.
MR. LOHR: He wasn't concerned with doing anything to your
property or to the other person's property.
MS. WATSON: He did. He touched mine.
MR. LOHR: I know what he tells me he did and I saw it, and
as far as the other dumping goes, it doesn't make sense to
me, if you were trying to improve the appearance of the
house, why would you dump things there?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We realize it didn't make sense. That's
why we are here. We want to resolve this. We want to move
this ahead.
MR. LOHR: What you're recommending in terms of what you're
requiring in terms of revegetation or anything else to
comply. As soon as the bay constable came down as soon as
she called, he made a good faith effort to comply. He filed
a permit application, he paid the increased fee on the
permit, contacted En-Consultants about flagging, contacted
Metzgar about the survey. He was there when you were at the
site. He wants to comply. He's improved the property since
he's moved in. He's disturbed several feet of your property
out of the five acres.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Okay. For the record also there was
clearing done across the street also from the property.
MR. LOHR: He had nothing to do with that. I'm not saying
he did. I'm just saying on field inspection there was
clearing done across the street. We spoke to Mr. Purita, he
said he didn't do the clearing. Someone did the clearing.
It just didn't happen by itself. We spoke to Mr. Purita
about a survey; we said are you getting a survey because we
need one to complete the application, and he said he hasn't
contracted with anyone yet.
MR. LOHR: He's contracted with Metzgar. They told him
they're six to seven weeks out.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is he going to do the survey?
MR. LOHR: As far as I know he's going to do the survey
after the flagging by En-Consultants.
MR. PURITA: As far as across the street, this past Saturday
there was some clearing done across the street, I have some
photos. I'm not going to say which neighbor did it, two
houses down on the south side of the 875 Eugene, there's
four foot cutting that goes in to about 40, 45 feet. I have
photos of that. You guys can inspect it. I'm sure I can go
all around Southold and find more cases.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We do unfortunately.
MR. PURITA: As far as the dumping I was clear with Para and
28
Board of Trustees 29 April 20, 2005
you guys when you walked over there, that's been there a
while. That wasn't us.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm not saying it was you, I'm saying we
didn't just get off the turnip wagon, we can see fresh
dumping, the phragmites have been pushed over by leaves.
MR. PURITA: When did I purchase the property?
MR. LOHR: February 9th.
MR. PURITA: You remember this past winter there was quite a
bit of snow on the ground. It's hard to rake leaves and
snow.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's our point, it was done very
recently. We could see that.
MR. PURITA: Recently? How can you prove that? Do you have
a crystal ball? I mean, I'm telling you, I didn't do it.
MR. JOHNSTON: That's it, Al, table.
MR. LOHR: How are we going to proceed?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We need to see the dump receipts, we need
to see a survey, we need to see the debris removed, and we
need to see replanting plans for all three properties, who
knows where the properties end.
MS. TETRAULT: A replanting plan that shows for the trees
that were moved and where the green briar was cut.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to table the
application.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
MR. LOHR: Do we have another date?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It should automatically come up on the
18th of May.
6. David Corwin on behalf of PETER NEYLAND requests
a Wetland Permit to reconstruct the existing deteriorated
timber bulkhead with vinyl sheet bulkheading along same
line; maintenance dredge approximately 330 cubic yards of
bottom to obtain a depth of 5' below mean iow water, use 100
cubic yards of spoil as backfill material, dispose of
balance of spoil material at an upland location. Located:
80 Bay View Drive, East Marion, SCTM#37-4-5.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here to speak for this
application? I think we didn't have any problem with
this.
MS. TETRAULT: Do you want to a non-turf buffer for the new
bulkhead?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: CAC did not make an inspection. I'll
make a motion to close the
29
Board of Trustees 30 April 20, 2005
hearing.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the
Wetland Permit for maintenance dredging with the stipulation
there be a 10 foot non-turf buffer.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES.
7. William DurTea on behalf of NICHOLAS CASSIS
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a single-family
dwelling and to clear within 100 feet of the
wetlands. Located: Ninth Street, Greenport. SCTM#45-6-9.1
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to comment on this
application?
MR. MORBILLO: Good evening, my name is Michael Morbillo,
I'm an architect with Hawkins, Webb, Jaeger. i'm here on
behalf of the applicant. We are proposing a 3,300 square
foot new residence two-story with a two-car garage, and we
are on 1.67 acres.
MR. JOHNSTON: Do we have an authorization for you?
MR. MORBILLO: We have an authorization from the property
owner, William Duryea, is an employee of mine who had made
the application.
MR. JOHNSTON: He's not authorized to speak.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You can speak but not on behalf of the
client.
MR. MORBILLO: I'll be here to answer any questions the
Board may have.
TRUSTEE KING: Are there any other comments on this
application?
MS. DUFFY: Hi, I'm Darlene Duffy. I'm sorry I haven't had
a chance to go through the file. My family owns a large
part of the wetlands that abuts this property. And we don't
have any objection to Mr. Cassis building the house, but I'd
like the Board to direct him maybe -- I'm concerned about
his sewer system because some of that wetlands has been --
it's been closed by the DEC recently actually.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Come up and take a look.
MS. DUFFY: Thanks.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's on the landward side.
MS. DUFFY: Perfect, thank you.
TRUSTEE KING: Anything other comments on this application?
Any Board comments?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How did CAC comment?
TRUSTEE KING: They couldn't get in because the fence was
30
Board of Trustees 31 April 20, 2005
locked.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKi: The 10 foot contour seems to be a pretty
good swale that runs just outside the edge of the woods, so
we would want to see the landward -- I'm sorry, not a
swale, a berm -- we want to see the landward side of that
berm at the beginning of the 10 foot non-disturbance area.
Actually, it was outside the treed area. It was somewhere
closer to here. Here's 100 foot setback, so actually we're
looking at more of a 50 foot, if you could draw that on, 50
foot setback. That would be undisturbed.
MR. MORBILLO: Okay, that will be included on the
survey. Anything else you would like to ask?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't think so. Interesting spot.
TRUSTEE KING: Are there anything other comments? If there
are no more I will make a motion to close the public
hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I will make the motion to approve the
application with the addition of the nondisturbance buffer
as to be shown on the plans. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
8. Garrett Strang on behalf of C & R REALTY
requests a Wetland Permit to demolish westerly plus/minus 17
feet of building and construct new exterior wall, and make
necessary interior repairs and maintenance. Add sidewalk on
west side of building and pavement for handicap
parking. Located: 61600 Main Road, Southold. SCTM# 56-5-3.4.
MR. STRANG: Good evening, Garrett Strang on behalf of C & R
Realty. This particular application, unlike most that you
see and I'm here before the Board with, is unusual in that
we're looking to remove part of the building and move
further away from the bulkhead than one might expect from
someone wanting to do an addition. It's pretty
straightforward. There's a part of the building that is not
only in need of repair but in looking at the whole site
would be beneficial to the site and to the applicant to
remove. Of course, when we remove that we have to build a
new end wall in the building in that area where we're going
back 15 feet. We are going to reconfigure the parking.
There is parking there already and because code requires
that we provide a handicap parking stall, it has to be on a
hard surface, so we have to add some additional asphalt as
to what's already there. So again, it's a pretty
straightforward application. If the Board has any questions,
31
Board of Trustees 32 April 20, 2005
comments, I'll be happy to address them.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to speak for or against this application? I
think the Board was very concerned with the drainage for
this entire area. There were major concerns for drainage
problems that are existing in the area.
MR. STRANG: Right now the majority of the site is
gravel. So it's a porous surface. So it will
naturally perk as well it can, but I'm sure the Board is
aware as most people with that particular location that the
soils are relatively heavy and don't drain that well. I
don't know if there's any way we can address that. If the
Board had suggestions with respect to the drainage as
typical with respect to dry wells that's all well and good,
except they're limited with their effectiveness because of
the nature of the soils there.
TRUSTEE KING: What do you think, maybe in your landscaped
area, the proposed landscaped area there could be some dry
wells in there to take care of some of the runoff, like the
roof runoff?
MR. STRANG: In the proposed landscaped area we could put --
TRUSTEE KING: Maybe shallow rings, that would help.
MR. STRANG: I would think so, but again, soils are such
that they'll just fill up. In a heavy rain they're not ~-
in the light rain, I guess maybe they will contain the water
to perk out. I don't think we're objecting to it, I'm
questioning the effectiveness of it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I was thinking along the bulkhead on the
west side, it's currently gravel there now, correct?
MR. STRANG: Bluestone.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Keep it gravel drain along the side or
even make a French drain along the edge
there so you don't pave right up to the bulkhead.
MR. LIEBLEIN: Will Lieblein. We may have to move where
we're proposing -- the only reason we're talking about
paving is because of the requirement for a handicap parking
spot and there's an apron at the read there. I'm sure we
can figure out somewhere else to put that spot. Whatever
you guys suggest.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's the drainage that concerns us, it's
not the building. The building's fine, whatever you want to
do with it, I don't think that was a concern of the
Board. We didn't want to see that paved. It's pervious
now, we realize the drainage is a problem at least some
filtration before it runs in. We didn't want to see the
whole thing paved.
32
Board of Trustees 33 April 20, 2005
MR. LIEBLEIN: The whole back, the paving that we're
talking about for the one spot for the handicap access, just
don't do it and you're cool with this, is that kind of where
you're going with this?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No. I thought it was the whole lot was
proposed to be paved.
MR. STRANG: No. They limited the paving to right here for
the handicap spot. It has to be a hard surface.
MR. LIEBLEIN: Right now the apron goes right to here and
we're talking about right here (indicating). One parking
space for the handicap.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay, that was unclear. We didn't
understand that. Okay. It says limits of paved area, so we
assumed that was the limit there.
MR. STRANG: It's up to this point here.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's no problem.
MR. STRANG: The rest is going to remain gravel.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All right. It's clear now.
MR. MCGREEVY: That shaded area on the diagram, is that the
paved area that they're talking about?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
MR. MCGREEVY: If that's a problem maybe those two spots can
be put between the road and the front of the building, if
that is a problem.
MR. STRANG: The challenge with that is having parking in
front of the building, it makes for a difficult in-and-out
situation, and certainly we can't back out onto the Main
Road, that's not a legal situation.
MR. MCGREEVY: There's not enough space there?
MR. STRANG: No, there's not enough space to maneuver.
MR. MCGREEVY: How big angling the parking instead of
vertical?
MR. STRANG: We had it angled at one time and we felt after
looking at it that it was actually better as parallel
parking along that line. And, again, we're trying to be
sensitive by limiting the amount of paving we're doing.
MR. MCGREEVY: If I recall correctly isn't there an island
right in front of that building that could be eliminated for
better parking?
MR. STRANG: Again, we can't do any parking between the
building and the road. We spoke with the DOT on that. DOT
is making their improvements doing curbing, and they're
going to actually do the curb cut.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Just make sure he only has that one area
handicap. Artie?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Yes.
33
Board of Trustees 34 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE DiCKERSON: How do you feel about this; are you in
agreement?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: As far as the drainage?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes, with the partial asphalt surface
just for the handicap?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Sure, it has to be a hard surface for the
handicap.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's fine, we were unclear about the
extent of it.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's a very limited amount of paving.
MR. STRANG: If I understand correctly the Board will still
be looking for some subterranean drainage rings?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's a waste of money.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I think we're okay with it. i'll make a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the
Wetland Permit to demolish the westerly 17 feet of building
and construct a new exterior wall, and make necessary
interior repairs and maintenance, and add sidewalk on the west
side of building and the only asphalt pavement be for the
handicap parking area with the rest being gravel.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES.
9. Frank Notaro on behalf of PETER RUTTURA requests
a Wetland Permit for alterations and additions to the
existing dwelling. Demolition of existing roof, carport,
rear deck and proposed addition of new roof, rear deck,
front covered porch and two-car garage with unheated
breezeway. Located: 835 Waterview Drive, Southold. SCTM#
78-7-12.
MR. NOTARO: I'm Frank Notaro representing my clients, Peter
and Donna Ruttura, who are present this evening. If I can
answer any questions. If I just may explain a little bit,
the existing decks that are on the wetlands side of the
property are in terrible disrepair, so we're removing all of
those along, proposing, along with the carport; we're then
proposing a screened-in porch on pilings that would actually
be set further back from the wetlands.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Thank you. I think we approved the dock
last year. We're only addressing the house tonight. I
don't have any other comments. Is there anyone else who
wishes to speak on behalf of this application or against it?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Just need dry wells for the roof runoff.
34
Board of Trustees 35 April 20, 2005
MR. NOTARO: Sure. ,'
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I don't have any other comment other than
putting dry wells in.
MR. MCGREEVY: 50 foot non-tuff, I think that was one of our
recommendations.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: The CAC recommends approval with the
condition that a 50 foot non-tuff buffer be added.
MR. MCGREEVY: The house is setback.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: On the original dock permit we put in a
restrictive mowing line on there already.
MR. MCGREEVY: That was our only recommendation on that.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: How many feet, Al, do you remember?.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, I don't.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'm looking at a few pictures. It looks
like it should be at least 25 feet non-mowing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm going to guess about 20 because it's
really sandy. If you look at the pictures it's really sandy
and pretty rough grass quite a ways back.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is that fine, Frank, 25 foot non-mowing,
non-tuff buffer from the creek?
MR. NOTARO: That was actually a stipulation from the dock
permit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right.
MR. NOTARO: I had no knowledge of that and that wasn't on
any survey.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: If not, we'll just create a 25 feet
non-mowing, non-tuff buffer. Any other questions? If not,
I'll make a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve the Wetland
Permit on behalf of Peter Ruttura for everything described
with the addition of dry wells and a 25 foot non-mowing,
non-tuff buffer 25 feet from the edge.
MR. NOTARO: We can submit that tomorrow.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
10. Bill Hutchinson on behalf of KEVIN & MARGARET
WHITROCK requests a Wetland Permit to renovate and construct
an addition to the existing single-family
dwelling. Located: 580 Private Road 17,
Mattituck. SCTM#123-6-20.
MR. HUTCHINSON: I'm Bill Hutchinson. We're here to
represent the Whitrocks in regard to the renovation of their
existing home. This house is located in the Mineola area.
35
Board of Trustees 36 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We were there last week.
MR. HUTCHINSON: We're going to actually bring them a
little bit away from the water, move ten feet off the house,
make a two-story residence similar to the other homes along
that strip. They're probably the last ones to really
renovate. We also forwarded a bunch of photographs of the
the homes along the strip, I believe we have that in the
file.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We noticed that the renovation would bring
it in line with the neighbors.
MR. HUTCHINSON: Pretty much that was our purpose in
design.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Where are the cesspools located, up by
the garage?
MR. HUTCHINSON: That's right. New surveys are being made
as we speak. Those are actually old. The beach is actually
bigger now than it was in these old surveys.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's an interesting lot. It's 600 feet
long and only half an acre.
MR. HUTCHINSON: It's amazing, 40 feet wide. There's one
past it 26 feet wide, zig-zags in and out.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: CAC didn't have any recommendations. Is
there anyone else that would like to speak to this
application?
MR. MCGREEVY: Whoever looked to find the property, they
couldn't find the property
MR. HUTCHINSON: We couldn't either.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the Wetland Permit
to renovate and construct an addition to the existing
single-family dwelling. Located: 580 Private Road,
Mattituck.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think before we vote you want a hay bale
line at the bulkhead, at the top of the bank during
construction.
MR. HUTCHINSON: Actually there's a bulkhead in there, if
you want to show the top for DEC prior to a certain date,
they would actually look at it different.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We just want to see a hay bale line during
construction.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I make that motion with the condition
that there be a hay bale line at the top of the bluff.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES.
36
Board of Trustees 37 April 20, 2005
11. William C. Goggins, on behalf of PETER WARNS
requests a Wetland Permit to renovate the existing
dwelling. Located: 8740 Peconic Bay Boulevard,
Laurel. SCTM#126-5-2.1
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to represent the
applicant?
MR. GOGGINS: Yes, William Goggins, law firm of Goggins and
Palumbo, 13105 Main Road, Mattituck, New York on behalf of
the applicant.
TRUSTEE KING: I looked at this expansion of the existing
home. I can't see it having any effect on the
environment.
MR. GOGGINS: Property on Peconic Bay in Laurel. It's
bulkheaded about 81 feet from the high tide mark and
approximately 64 feet from the bulkhead that has been there
since the early '60s. The construction will expand a little
bit, but it won't expand any closer to the water.
TRUSTEE KING: Are there any other comments on this
application?
MS. TETRAULT: Are they doing anything with cesspools in the
increasing --
MR. MCGREEVY: There are comments. CAC recommends approval
of the application with the condition that there is no
change to the existing footprint and gutters and dry wells
are installed to contain the roof runoff.
TRUSTEE KING: I think the footprint is going to be changed
because they're coming out to the side of the house.
MR. MCGREEVY: If the footprint is changed will it have any
adverse effect?
TRUSTEE KING: Not that I can see.
MR. MCGREEVY: We put it in there just in case.
TRUSTEE KING: We just want to see dry wells.
MR. GOGGINS: No problem.
TRUSTEE KING: Simple expansion. Any Board comments? If
there's no other comments I'll make a motion to close the
hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with the stipulation of dry wells for roof runoff.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Have that dry wells are added to the plans.
MR. GOGGINS: We will, thank you.
37
Board of Trustees 38 April 20, 2005
12. Cramer Consulting Group on behalf of NICHOLAS
ALIANO requests a Coastal Erosion Permit to construct a
single-family dwelling and retaining walls. Located: 3705
Duck Pond Road, Cutchogue. SCTM#83-1-1 and 12
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Is there anyone here to speak on behalf of
this application?
MR. CRAMER: Good evening, my name is Tom Cramer, I'm
representing the Alianos. I have with me here tonight Mr.
Aliano's son and also his grandson. We are seeking to
construct a new home on a lot that's been in the family for
numerous years. It's a 34,000 square foot
parcel approximately, and it fronts the Long Island Sound,
and it has frontage on both Glen Court and Duck Pond Road.
The parcel was created in 1968 as part of the map of Vista
Bluff.
The site does have a bluff located on it; we are set
back from that as much as possible because of the size of
the lot we pulled back against the southern property
line. We do also have permits from the New York State DEC
and the Health Department, and I have copies of that for the
Board for the record (handing).
As I said, we've pulled the house back as far as
possible to the southern portion of the site to maximize the
setback from the mean high water line and the northern
property line coincides with the mean high water line. The
house is 155 feet from the mean high water mark. The
sanitary is 152 feet from that line. The house is also 47
feet from the top of the bluff and the sanitary is 55 feet
from the top of the bluff. Again, the configuration doesn't
allow any more setback than what we're proposing here.
The house will be serviced by a well located in the
southwest corner, and according to Health Department
standards we've maximized the setback for the sanitary both
from our well and the neighbor's well. Access will be
provided from Glen Court.
Runoff we're proposing direct into dry wells and no
runoff will be directed off the face of the bluff, as well
as there will be a natural buffer left between the house and
the bluff itself.
If the Board has any questions, I'll be glad to try
to answer them.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Any questions?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh For the record, the Board only has
jurisdiction on part of one of the retaining walls. It's
almost completely nonjurisdictional for our Board.
MR. CRAMER: That retaining wall is 25 feet from the top of
38
Board of Trustees 39 April 20, 2005
the bluff. It's located in there, even though the coastal
zone management line does cut across that retaining wall.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think that's the extent of our
jurisdiction.
MR. CRAMER: I believe so. Again, we've conformed to the
standards of your coastal zone management at 25 feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Artie, do you have any comments on this?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I have a comment about the septic system,
where it's located. It's 20 feet lower than the house. So
it will never fill up. It will fill up, just run down the
bank when it does.
MR. CRAMER: The septic system we have sufficient effective
depth in that system to address this residence that's on it,
and, again, the Health Department has approved that. I've
given the Board a copy of that approval.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm surprised that is in here. It's right
here.
MR. CRAMER: That's a reduced copy, it's maybe a little hard
to see.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They let you put in a wooden retaining
wall for a septic; you wouldn't have to put a concrete?
MR. CRAMER: We've maintained 20 feet separation between the
leaching pools and the walls. They require 20 feet
separation. If we go closer than 20 feet, we have to put in
a concrete waterproof retaining wall. This is a tiered
retaining wall, we're proposing to plant on the retaining
wall itself to help to screen it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You're planting seaward of the retaining
wall you're saying?
MR. CRAMER: Yes. On the retaining wall itself on the
terracing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're looking for a clearing line here
too. From what I can see jurisdictionally wise we have
about five feet of one retaining wall?
MR. CRAMER: That's approximately it, yes.
MS. TETRAULT: Where is the coastal erosion line?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Runs across the tail end. Does the rest
of the Board want to see this? I don't think the DEC copy
has the coastal erosion line on it.
MR. CRAMER: This copy may show a little better.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Our concern is destabilizing the bluff
with that second retaining wall that contains the septic
system.
MR. CRAMER: The lower one as far as going beyond the
coastal zone management line?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just the physical presence. That's our
39
Board of Trustees 40 April 20, 2005
concern on that steep, a bluff.
MR. CRAMER: We're set back from the bluff 25 feet from the
end of that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We were there.
MR. CRAMER: The real problem comes in with the separation
between the wells. If we didn't need to worry about the
separation between the wells, we would be able to provide a
different layout. We're showing 105 foot separation between
the well and the septic.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Any other comments?
MR. CALLAS: My name is Nick Callas, I'm the homeowner
that's west of the lot that's being proposed to be
built. We haven't received any blueprints or anything
indicating where their septic or where their sewer would be
with regards to our well, if there's going to be enough
space, distance. Basically we're talking about a house
that's being built on a cliff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would you like to see the plans? Come up
and take a look.
MR. JOHNSTON: Were you notified of the hearing, though?
MR. CALLIS: Yes.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Here's the proposed well, there's another
well here (indicating).
MR. CRAMER: That's his well.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: That's where the well is.
MR. CRAMER: We're 105 from you, Health Department standards
is 100 feet.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: His elevation is 62 --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: His septic system is down --
MR. CRAMER: Ground water flow is toward the Sound.
MR. CALLIS: Also there's really no parking allowed.
MR. CRAMER: There will be access when you come off Front
Court.
MR. CALLIS: So don't you have to have a certain amount of
feet?
MR. CRAMER: This is Glen Court here. This is your lot
here, your driveway's coming out here (indicating).
MR. CALLIS: How many feet is that?
MR. CRAMER: Do you know where that telephone pole is? It's
about where that telephone pole is, just to the side of that
telephone pole.
MR. CALLIS: Is that to code as far as the neighborhood
goes, the distance from my property line to your driveway?
MR. CRAMER: Yes.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: This is basically out of our jurisdiction
anyway, that would be a zoning enforcement or building
40
Board of Trustees 4l April 20, 2005
department.
MR. CALLAS: Can we have a copy of this?
MR. CRAMER: We have an extra copy.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh You're located to the west?
MR. CALLIS: We're west of the lot being proposed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Then just west of you there's another
application being proposed.
MR. MCGREEVY: Is that all public water going into those?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's private wells. But they have the
required distance separation.
MR. MCGREEVY: The separation's there?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Yes.
MR. JOHNSTON: It's only 100 feet.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's an old subdivision; anything new is
150.
MS. TETRAULT: Isn't it 150 feet?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's an old subdivision. When this was
subdivided, the standard was 100 feet. So they continue to
abide by that because the lots are such size that you can't
get 150 feet. Any other comments? I'll make a motion to
close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I'll make a motion to approve the
application as requested indicating dry wells as Mr. Cramer
indicated he would have, dry wells for roof runoff, that was
about it.
MS. TETRAULT: Revegetation in front of the --
MR. CRAMER: Revegetation on the retaining wall.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: All in favor? ALL AYES.
(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)
15. Young and Young on behalf of ROBERT A.
MACFARLANE requests a Wetland Permit to construct a
single-family dwelling and deck. Located. East side of
Stillwater Avenue, Cutchogue. SCTM#136-2-6, 7 and 8
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone here to would like to
speak on behalf of this application?
MS. MOORE: Good evening, I have an appearance on behalf
of Mr. MacFarlane. Bob Tast from Young and Young is here
and Mr. MacFarlane is here.
I want to put on the record because this permit
expired and we're renewing it, but there is a tremendous
amount of history here. And very quickly, I'll just put the
permit history on the record because we have a new
41
Board of Trustees 42 April 20, 2005
record. I would ask that all the prior permits be
incorporated into your record as well because I know you do
have everything in your files that is relevant to this
application.
Historically this is part of a map of Section 2,
property of M.S. Hand, and the lots that are comprising of
this application are Lots 80, 81,82, 83 and part of 84. At
one point in time these properties were in some instances
merged and my client had originally made an application for
two of the lots that he merged in order to get the permit
that has subsequently expired.
For the record, there were prior permits.
Mr. MacFarlane merged the two lots and then really our job
is made easier because there was a third lot that
fortunately he had the wherewithal to acquire it, and
actually there are three lots that are merged and part of
this application.
Also for the record, the DEC did issue a permit. It
was issued November of 2002 and it is valid until 2007. The
Health Department had also issued a permit in '01; this
actually went through the Board of Review and was granted by
the Board of Review, the regulatory division. The home now
has public water runs down the street, so certain issues
that were addressed during the Board of Review hearing I
think have been resolved. Nonetheless, one of the property
owners that still has wells or has the choice of connecting
to public water and may not have chosen to connect to public
water, that was addressed through the Board of Review. We
don't have any issues of sanitary. We certainly comply.
The original permit you reviewed addressed all this. You
did a very thorough job in your original permit, this is
before the code changed, but you had for the most part, all
your policies were in place. The policies have merely been
codified in the new code and the permit process, the review
you undertook was extensive and really did address all of
your policies and incorporate everything into the original
permit, and we have subsequently requested to renew the
permit with all the conditions, all the approvals that have
previously been imposed.
The Zoning Board, part of the process was that there
was an effort to push the house toward the road and away
from the wetlands. However, the neighbors opposed the
variance towards the road and ultimately the Zoning Board
ended up shrinking the house some and setting the footprint
where it is today. That approval went through five public
hearing processes. Ultimately the Zoning Board issued a
42
Board of Trustees 43 April 20, 2005
decision December of'03. That is the relevant date I would
say because Mr. MacFarlane really did not want to be back
here again but unfortunately he was under the impression
that his two year time frame on the permit ran from December
of '03. So when he went to make the Building Department
application recently, he discovered that the Trustees permit
had expired, the other permits were still going and the most -
the latest permit, which was the Zoning Board, would
have carried him through December '05. So it was
inadvertence on his part, he misunderstood his two-year time
clock. He believed that his permits, or at least your
permit, would correlate with the latest permit that the
Zoning Board granted.
There is the third lot which you see on the
southerly-most side of the property, that parcel was
included in the development and has actually been
sterilized, been merged; the whole application includes that
piece, and that parcel has become part of the green belt
that is part of your application.
To get to the point, the development occurring on
this property is only 2.4 percent of the overall property;
therefore 97.6 percent of this property is an open space.
That is a very conservation-minded application. It has been
reviewed by every agency that could have jurisdiction on
this has reviewed it and issued a permit.
Bob Tast is here, and I want Bob to put on the
record the zero runoff coefficient that has been part of the
process.
MR. TAST: My name is Bob Tast. I'm an architect
with Young and Young. As part of the Zoning Board of
Appeals process, and also I think as part of your process,
we were asked to contain all the water runoff from the roof
and from the building itself on the site, and to that extent
we have created high points right down the middle of the
site and running water left to right or east to west and
collecting them in dry wells on the site. That includes on
the back, on the northern face, northeasterly face, as well
as the southwesterly face. The driveway is pervious
material, crushed stone.
MS. MOORE: If you have any questions, we'd be pleased to
address them and we'll wait to hear your comments.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Are there any other comments?
MR. HUNTINGTON: Ray Huntington, Cutchogue speaking for the
Fleet's Neck Property Owners Association. Mrs. Moore's
description of the previous events is quite good and I won't
repeat it. But I will add this, that the proposed house
43
Board of Trustees 44 April 20, 2005
footprint is more than half outside the as of right area to
build, given all the compromises that have been made here
under the old code. I will also add that on November 25,
2002, this Board issued a permit for a dwelling, and this
was done with some reluctance, as you recall, and with
concern about the town code, particularly Chapter 97 in
effect at that time. The Board of Trustees and the Town
Board well considered the revision of Chapter 97 and
properly changed the wetland law of the Town of Southold.
And now, we have a new event and that is the permit that was
issued back in November of 2002 has expired. And not only
that, the ability to extend it has also expired and the
applicant has applied for a new permit with what appears to
be the same plan. But in the interim the town code has
revised the town code to eliminate the concerns of 2002.
Current permit approval depends on satisfaction of
the existing Town code, the Town code that exists right
now. This application does not satisfy the condition that
the dwelling be less than 100 feet from wetlands; it does
not satisfy the condition that landscaping be less than 50
feet from the wetlands, and part of the driveway is less
than 50 feet from the wetlands.
The members of the Fleet's Neck Property Owners
Association consider this site unbuildable and therefore
encourage the Board of Town Trustees to reject this
application.
We have submitted these comments in the form of a
letter. If you need extra copies, we would be happy to
provide them. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Any other comments?
MR. VALE: My name is Carl Vale, I have a letter (handing),
I'm across the street from this parcel. It's a letter from
myself and my spouse.
"Dear Trustees, as adjacent property owners and
resident taxpayers of Southold Town we request that you deny
the applicant, Robert MacFadane. The Town wetlands code
has changed since the applicant received a permit to build
from the Trustees. The new requirement for a 100 foot
setback from wetlands leaves this property with no building
envelope. While it may be helpful at times to grant relief
to property owners who are trying to comply with Trustees
requirements and zoning requirements, it does not make sense
when we have a situation like this where the applicant does
not meet any of the requirements of the Trustees or Zoning
Board without 100 percent exemptions of these requirements.
Approving this application essentially bends all these
44
Board of Trustees 45 April 20, 2005
requirements until it confounds the basic intent of the
law.
"The issue of the confiscation of the property
rights can be raised, but the issue of wetlands protection
is a bigger one. The wetlands on this property belong to
the Trustees and the Town and all of us. These are also
property rights to be respected. As for the applicant I
suggest that the Trustees, the Town and the Nature
Conservancy work together with him to purchase this
property. Mr. MacFarlane is a real estate developer and is
well aware of the risks of investment, this might be a way
for him to get his money back.
"And finally, length of process and investment of
time and money to secure permits certainly weigh heavily on
the application, however, the amount of time and effort
spent by the opposition is definitely equal to the claim and
should receive equal weight from the Trustees. It's not the
job of our Trustees to insure investment results but to
protect the basic resources which make this type of property
so valuable. Sincerely"
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Sir.
MR. BELL: Pete Bell, Cutchogue. I live about two houses
across the street from this proposed development. Several
years ago we presented to you 1,100 signatures on a
petition which asked you to use your good offices to work
for the purchase by the Town of this property in question.
We showed its value as a nursery for fish, ducks, geese and
other wildlife. This land being considered for a house is
almost 40 percent wetlands. It borders a freshwater inlet
to the creek on which it will abut. In order for it to be
approved previously and after much convoluted reasoning, the
footprint were moved back and forth many times and so were
the cesspool locations. The frontage from the road was
reduced 50 feet to 38 feet. The developer was a
accommodated despite our protests. Now that the law has
been changed so that it now recognizes the true value of
the wetlands, we feel it should be enforced and that no new
permits should be issued for this desecration of our creek
and wetlands.
The real estate developer's investment is just
that, an investment, and we know they go up and down. There
is nothing sacrosanct about the investment, witness the
stock market's decline a few days ago of almost 200 points.
If you lose in stocks, ifs a personal loss; if the town
loses and this land goes private, we lose generations of
wildlife development and the resources are gone for
45
Board of Trustees 46 April 20, 2005
good. We should hold these resources in trust for our
children and grandchildren for their future enjoyment and
their education. So we ask you once again to save our
creeks and bays and wetlands and beaches for all to enjoy.
MR. JOHNSTON: Are you giving us a copy of that lette~
MR. BELL: I'll get it to you. I just wrote it up.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thank you. Anyone else?
MR. MACFARLANE: I'm Robert MacFarlane. In about November
of '02, an approval was gained here. The approval was
gained when we went ahead and added the third lot. Back if
I recall that evening there was a comment that the guy did
everything we wanted him to do, everything we asked him to
do over the years, and we went ahead and we added the third
lot. When we added the third lot, and we have pictures and
diagrams here I'll show you. When we added the third lot we
did something a little different, we took about one-third of
this property, it went into a buffer zone, one-third went
into a permanent green belt so there could be no
obstructions of views or sight lines from two of these
gentlemen's houses out to the water. We reached out to
accommodate in the best way possible. In fact, in December
of '03 about a year and-a-half later we finally received the
ZBA approval. In that process we had to go back to the DEC
to gain additional approval, which we did, that's another
piece that took a great deal of time. In May of'04, I
joined the association. And I need to share with you, it
was a little bit of a relief when I did because I was beat
up pretty much for three and-a-half years. Almost everyone
except two people at the association came over and said,
hey, bygones are bygones, sorry we gave you a difficult
time, we're here today, welcome. And I really felt assured
okay, bygones are bygones. The neighborhood as you're aware
is an older neighborhood. Most houses are 20 feet from the
water, some properties have a house 12 feet off the road,
some properties have more than one house on the lot.
I have heard now three, four times over the years,
MacFarlane heads a company, and they are developers. I
certainly do. I had a company called Homes for America
Holdings, we restore, rebuild cities throughout the United
States. One of our sites, says, a huge site in downtown
Hartford is actually becoming, in addition to mixed use, a
U.S. national park. We say to the people that we do
business with, if they didn't pay us and we had enough money
to put bread on the table, we'd do it anyway; it's a
passion. Yes, I care, I care about development and when we
laid out this property, and we'll show you, we laid it out
46
Board of Trustees 47 April 20, 2005
at the request of ZBA and this Board as well so that not a
drop of water came off that roof into the wetlands, that
everything was captured.
Care of the envirenment, I was on the site in May of
'04, gentleman acress the street from you, someone had clear
cut right down to the water. I asked one of the neighbors I
said what happened here. The person said, well, you see
they're putting in some trees for me, I guess what they did
is illegal and they're trying to be nice to me. I don't
think the association came up with one complaint that was
registered about clear cutting down to the water. Here we
have buffers, storm drains, setbacks, a house that on one
end the living end is 24 feet wide, on the garage side 20
feet wide. Some people would like to have made this an
eight foot wide house, which, of course, would make it
unhabitable. I care, yes, I head a company that does care,
it cares about the envirenment, and we've received awards
frem threughout the United States because of the work we
do.
What I would like to do, if I can, if I could
approach the Board. Here is the house, here is the green
belt, there's one, two, three lots. This is the third lot
that we acquired after the request or suggestion of this
Board, and this became green belt, this became buffer, 2.4
pement of the total property became house.
If I can, let me go back here, very important,
you'll see a house here and here, the reason -- this is
Mr. Vale's house -- the reason we did this is so he had no
obstruction of view, permanent, it's been signed, it's a
green belt.
This is probably a better picture, again, buffer, green
belt, house, 24 feet, 20 feet on this side. This point here
is Mr. Tast, this is 50 feet from the wetlands.
MS. MOORE: 60.
MR. TAST: Everything is 50 feet from the wetlands.
MR. MACFARLANE: But this line represents 50 feet frem the
wetlands, this is 38 feet from the road. This was squished
pushed, tugged and put there.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: If I remember correctly you reduced the
size of the house?
MR. MACFARLANE: We reduced the size a number of times to
the point where I think we were down to 23 feet, I said can
I have another and you went (indicating), which I assume was
okay, so I had 24 because if you have two reoms, by the time
you got the insides, you get about 11'6" on each side. So
the house has been made as small as can be. In fact, the
47
Board of Trustees 48 April 20, 2005
way the ZBA was approved a year and-a-half later, I was
already out of sync with this Board because we had to go
back to the DEC. I guess that's it. Sorry to let you have
everything that I am aware of, but sometimes I mean, you
just got to be open plain and clear as to what does
represent environmental concern. And this place, if all of
the houses in Cutchogue were that concerned and have that
many green belts and that many storm retentions, I need to
tell you, I'm a kayaker, we'd all be better off.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's true.
MR. JOHNSTON: Pat, approximately how many square feet is on
the first floor of the house?
MR. MACFARLANE: 1,500, sir. ,And the height of the roof I
think was 28 feet, so there was no secret third floor to be
developed.
MR. BELL: Peter Bell, Cutchogue. Mr. MacFarlane made one
misstatement that I would like to correct. His house I
believe it's on the south side, but every house that's south
of his is at least 100 feet from the road. I'm talking
about at least 10 or 15 houses is 100 feet from the road,
not 20 feet. So that's what makes this design stand out so
much, has to be 38 feet from the road, finally, if it's
done.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment?
MR. JOHNSTON: Pat, is it a 3,000 square foot house total?
MS. MOORE: Total first and second floor.
MR. MACFARLANE: That includes the garage.
MR. JOHNSTON: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Does the Board have any other concerns?
We have been through this many times. We're comparing a
stamped approval from 2002 to what's been submitted here
tonight. The only difference I can see, or one of the big
differences besides the drainage work, which certainly looks
effective.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's a big advantage.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's a very big advantage, on the approval
of 2002 shows the house at 26 feet off the road, now, you
went to the ZBA and they gave you --
MR. MACFARLANE: Thirty-eight feet, sir.
MS. MOORE: The house was shrunk, they were willing to push
it closer to the road, but the neighbors used their
arguments with the Zoning Board to move us away from the
road. The Zoning Board reduced the size of the house to the
minimum possible to have a minimal space. The neighbors'
professed concerns with the wetlands would have logically
pushed us towards the road rather than keeping us at the 50
48
Board of Trustees 49 April 20, 2005
foot mark, but they were insistent in not pushing us in such
a way that would benefit the wetlands. Ultimately, as you
see, the DEC has approved this. We have mitigated
absolutely every environmental factor that's in your permit
standards.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you have Health Department approval?
MS. MOORE: Yes. They were going in for a building permit
when they realized that the Trustees permit
expired. Everything is in place, DEC, Health Department,
Zoning Board.
(Discussion.)
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It depends if they went to the Board of
Review and get it reduced, usually it would be 100 feet on
that because it's a previous developed subdivision, small
lots.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It shows over 100.
MS. MOORE: What is your question?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Talking about the well, cesspool separation
distances.
MS. MOORE: At the time these houses were built 100 feet was
required by the Town since then it's 150, that's why you go to
the Board of Review if you can't meet the 150. There's
actually public water on the street so that if that neighbor
had a real concern about the water quality, they could
connect to public water.
MR. BELL: Excuse me, that's gratuitous of Pat. I don't
drink public water because it has chlorine in it, thank you,
and I certainly could hook up to it, but I don't intend to.
I shouldn't have to either, thank you.
MS. MOORE: That's why the Health Department does not make
him hook up, even though it's there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment? I'll make a motion to
close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We did review this under the old code many
times, and we did review this last week in the field under
the new code; and the new code is written to waive or alter
the setbacks for site specific or environmental conditions
justify such action. In light of the development in the
whole neighborhood, I can't see -- personally I can't see
where this house is going to have a negative impact on the
creek. All the water is contained on the site. You're not
going to have anything coming off the property to go on the
road. You're not going to have any runoff into the
wetlands, certainly. We've maximized the buffer as much as
49
Board of Trustees 50 April 20, 2005
possible. It's unfortunate that we can't save every
available existing vacant lot in town, and we certainly have
tried. But I'll make a motion, based on the environmental
conditions and based on a thorough review of this, to
approve the application.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I'll second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I would just like to say that around the
existing house, because there's not a complete 50 foot
buffer all the way around that, that after the construction
of the house that that be replanted to make it 50 feet or a
non-turf buffer?.
MS. MOORE: We may have a problem getting around the house.
To bring it to 50 feet, you're going to go right to the --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It will be 50 feet non-turf after
construction.
MR. MACFARLANE: Most of the property in all that green belt,
and it's in the application for the approval, was to be
planted with bear berry, vinca minor, ferns, I might add
blueberry, we had a lot of blueberry here years ago, so
those natural pieces of vegetation is what goes into that
green belt.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What Peggy's putting into the resolution
is that after construction that the remaining in some places
roughly eight feet be non-turf after construction,
specifically the back of the house.
MR. MACFARLANE: Agreed. Wouldn't have it any other way.
MS. MOORE: Non-turf is grass.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Non-turf is no grass.
MR. MACFARLANE: He is talking natural vegetation.
MS. MOORE: Some kind of natural vegetation. We just have
to be able to get around the property.
MR. MACFARLANE: Let me be clear on something. There is no
inducement that I would know that would have me put grass
there. It wouldn't fit, doesn't belong. The natural
vegetation belongs there automatically, it's going
in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. All in favor?. ALL AYES.
16. Charlotte A. Biblow, Esq. on behalf of VINCENT
& CAROL MANAGO requests a Wetland Permit for complete
removal of the existing 64' wood jetty and restoration of
the beach on the subject property with approximately 300
cubic yards of dredged or borrow sand. Located: 8225
Nassau Point Road; Cutchogue. SCTM#118-4-10.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here who would like to
50
Board of Trustees 51 April 20, 2005
speak to this application?
MS. BIBLOW: Yes, I am Charlotte Biblow of Farrell Fritz,
EAB Plaza, Uniondale, New York on behalf of Vincent and
Carol Manago. I would like to hand up the affidavit of
posting and some green cards that we received (handing).
We are asking in this application to remove a 64'
jetty and to restore the beach, included in our application
package were two different surveys, one was done by Peconic
Surveyors, which was done on behalf of the Managos that
shows that the jetty is on the Manago property. There's
also a 2002 survey done by Mr. Ingegno on behalf of the
Aloyas, who are the next door neighbors, that also shows that
the jetty is on the Manago property.
Included in the application as well is a report of
Gary Mulnar, a professional engineer, Mr. Mulnar is here
tonight and is available to answer any questions you have
with respect to his report, but you can see from his report
that there has been significant erosion since this jetty has
been repaired in 2001, not only on the Manago beach but
every beach south of that as well. And it was caused by the
renovation of this jetty.
The history of this jetty this Board may be very
familiar with. In 1995 before my clients owned the jetty,
there was a finding by the Town Conservation Advisory
Council that the jetty was non-functioning and that finding
is in the packet as well. As I mentioned the jetty was
repaired without permits in 2001 by the Aloyas. Since
that time the beach on the Manago side has been
decimated.
During the summer of 2001, there was a hearing
before this Board about repairs that were done by the Aloyas
without permits. There was discussion at that hearing about
this particular jetty and the repairs that were done. At
that time there were comments made on the record by this
Board that the repairs that were done to the jetty were not
authorized, it was a violation and it had to be undone. I
have a copy of the transcript, which I can hand up to you
for that August meeting (handing).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MS. BIBLOW: I do want to be very forthright. There is a
pending lawsuit between the Managos and the Aloyas, where
the Managos are suing the Aloyas for the damage done to the
beach by the repairs that were done in 2001. This Board I
understand has been to that beach recently twice and is very
familiar with the damage that is being caused not just to
the Manago beach but to the Shift beach and everyone south
51
Board of Trustees 52 April 20, 2005
of that as well. This Board has jurisdiction over this
jetty and it should order that it be removed. Because if
it's not removed, this wall, as opposed to a jetty, will
continue to decimate the beach. I don't know if when you
were at the beach if you noticed how the repairs were
done. This was not just an in-kind/in-place repair. In
2001 what was done to this jetty was that it was widened,
there was an extra row of sheathing put in so instead of one
row of sheathing there's two rows of sheathing. It was also
made higher. All of these repairs were done without permits
and have caused a destruction of the beach. So we would
urge this Board to grant the application. Again, Mr. Mulnar
is here, if you have any comments or questions about his
findings or his report.
MR. GAFFNEY: I'd like to speak against the application. My
name is Robert Gaffney, with Meyer, Suozzi, English and
Klein, 425 Broadhollow Road, Melville.
Counsel is correct, there is, in fact, a lawsuit
pending. It's in Supreme Court Suffolk. It's on for oral
motion, oral hearings on the 3rd or 4th of May. The issues
that have been raised are all contained within that
lawsuit. It's my belief that bringing this matter before
the Board of Trustees today is an effort to basically bypass
part of that or create a case for in the Supreme Court
action. Clearly no one questions the fact that some of the
issues are within the jurisdiction of the Board of Trustees
and you have every right to decide those issues. But there
are much more extensive issues as well, including issues of
adverse possession with regard to the jetty, ownership of
the jetty. The causes of action that were alleged in the
summons and complaint included nuisance, trespass,
negligence, negligence per se. There were a whole host of
other allegations, and part of the relief sought is
injunctive relief. The issue as to who owns the jetty is by
no means one that has been decided, and clearly it is
capable of being decided in a court of law because this
matter has been pending since 2002.
Again, Judge Baisley in Supreme Suffolk will be
hearing oral arguments on this matter on the motion for
summary judgment in early May, I believe it's May 3rd or
4th. So there's no reason for the Trustees to go forward at
this point, to make a decision with regards to complex
evidentiary matters that is already before the Supreme
Court. It may be determined that the owner of the jetty is,
in fact, the applicant. It may be, and is likely in my
view, to be determined that the owners of the jetty are the
52
Board of Trustees 53 April 20, 2005
AIoyas. In which case they would be responsible for
complying with all the Town's requirements and certainly
would be within the jurisdiction. But to decide an
application on behalf of a person who's saying they own
something without having adjudication of that issue doesn't
seem to make a lot of sense.
Simply what we're asking is that the Board deny the
application subject to a further application, if it's desired,
at such time as the title and ownership of the subject jetty is
decided. There is that issue and other issues. Some of the
issues that need to be decided in this matter go back to the
1950s when the Army Corps of Engineers had suggested to
the residents of Nassau Point that jetties ought be built. There
is a whole history that goes back to the '50s with regard to
these jetties, and certainly that's within the knowledge of
the Trustees. You have seen those jetties, you know what
the impact is. It also has to be assessed as to whether the
damage being alleged in the summons and complaint and
referred to here today by the applicant whether that damage
is, in fact, a result of other factors, whether their beach
was that way before. These are all issues that are
going to take a lot of time to resolve in complicated real
property litigation. So my request simply is that we are
this close, we're on oral argument as of May 3rd. I would
suggest or request that the Board deny this application and
that the fact is that the applicant lacks the standing
to make the application until such time as title to this
jetty is determined, which has not yet been done. We
believe it's our jetty.
MR. JOHNSTON: Sir, could I ask you a question? Could you
tell me who you're representing?
MR. GAFFNEY: I represent John and EIvira Aloya, they're the
residents immediately to the north of the applicant's
property. The jetty is constructed on their property
immediately adjacent to it. The jetty has been there since
the '50s. They, the Aloyases, purchased the property in 1986.
The applicants purchased their property I think in 1996.
There is a whole history, as you might imagine, between
these two individuals; the kind of history that is best
resolved with full evidentiary ability in a court.
MR. JOHNSTON: Your comment about the case is that because
you're one of the attorneys in the case? How did you get
that information?
MR. GAFFNEY: I have that from the attorney that's
representing the defendant in the action. I represent the
family themselves.
53
Board of Trustees 54 April 20, 2005
MR. JOHNSTON: The family meaning the Aloyas?
MR. GAFFNEY: The Aloyas. This claim has been covered by
both homeowner's insurance and title insurance. So there
are complicated title issues involved. Counsel for the
title company and homeowners will be representing the family
in that proceeding. This matter is separate and apart from
that. Because this is an application on behalf of another
party seeking another remedy that we don't believe is
appropriate; and they're making an application as if the
property is theirs, which is an issue that has not been
determined. We believe it's ours; they believe it's theirs.
Unless we want to get into complicated discussion of adverse
possession adverse user and all of those issues going back
to the '50s, the appropriate place for that remedy and for
that discussion, in fact, would be in the Supreme Court,
where it's scheduled already before Judge Baisley on May
3rd.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This gentleman is waiting.
MR. GRAHAM: My name is George Graham. I live at 8625
Nassau Point Road in Cutchogue, three houses down from the
Managos, southward.
This jetty was built in the fall of 1962 by Dorothea
Chute. It originally never had permission of the State to
be built. It did get a permit from the Corps of Engineers,
who took no position, contrary to what Mr. Gaffney just
said about it, as a matter of fact, they said it was
unnecessary. The original jetty was five feet high and 75
feet protruding from the bulkhead. A subsequent hearing
before the State's Office of General Services at the time in
1964, the jetty was cut down to three feet and also reduced
in length.
When my parents purchased the house that I live in
in 1958, the total distance of the lot was 428
feet. According to the surveyor, who said that at 45 years
of experience - they're based in Greenport -- that did the
survey, in 1919, the house had 432 feet, there was a four
foot loss in erosion over that period of time. I have a
picture of myself playing on this beach in August 1962,
before this jetty was built; there's 30 to 40 feet of sand.
Right now the high water mark at high tide touches the
bulkhead. All the sand is gone. I would speak in support
of any motion to take down this jetty. I also note that the
height of the jetty is at least three feet and I noticed
that from the relevant section of the Town code that governs
these proceedings, any jetty would have to be of Iow height,
and that's defined as 18 inches to two and-a-half feet, so
54
Board of Trustees 55 April 20, 2005
this is clearly illegal any way.
Not only that, but two houses northward of
Dr. Aloya's house, the jetty was improved and al~o raised in
height to three feet a year or two back. I doubt that this
Board gave permission for that to happen when it was
repaired. At any rate, when the repairs were done if it was
restored to three feet, it was not impermissible with the
current Town code. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Just a brief explanation on
the height of the jetty, what's called for in town code now
and also which is consistent with the DEC policy, it's
called a Iow profile jetty, and it's not so much the
starting point that's important as how it ends. So if you
look north, there are two short jetties that are pretty
high, which you referred to, and if you go north of that
there are two longer ones that taper down completely into
the water.
MR. GRAHAM: When was the last time you were there?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Last week.
MR. GRAHAM: There's a jetty at the Frey and Frasier
boundary, that's two houses north of the Aloyas that used
to be a foot above the sand, now it's three foot.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But if you go further north there's two
jetties, they're very hard to see.
MR. GRAHAM: You mean the five foot jetties? They've always
been in the sand. They're non-functional.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They are functioning because they fill the
compartment, and then they let the sand wash over it.
MR. GRAHAM: But they're built above the high water
mark. If I understand the two small jetties you're talking
about --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Not the short ones, the ones further north
of those, there's two north of those that we noticed
also. They taper off completely into the water. They're
almost completely buried. They're functioning, they hold
the sand. Once the compartment's filled, the sand washes
over and continues down the beach. That's the way a Iow
profile jetty is supposed to --
MR. GRAHAM: In the 40 years, from 1919 to 1958 when my
parents bought their house, there was only four feet of
erosion. Since that time and since that jetty was built,
there's been about 30 to 40 feet of erosion.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: When did the east side of Nassau Point get
bulkheaded? I
MR. GRAHAM: The house we live in was built in the '30s, and
it originally had a concrete bulkhead, which was destroyed
55
Board of Trustees 56 April 20, 2005
by the ice storms. I can't really tell you when it was
bulkheaded, but it was bulkheaded by 1958 when my parents
bought the house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MR. SCHIFF: Good evening, my name is David Schiff. I'm the
resident at 8425 Nassau Point Road, I'm the homeowner that
is directly south of the Managos and two homes south of the
Aloya property, and I wanted to first thank the Board very
much for their time and energy on this topic. As you know
and as you've seen, my beach has been materially impacted
for the worse with the reconstruction of the jetty.
I purchased the house in '98. I had a beach with
some rocks but certainly not the devastated beach that I
have now. This jetty has eroded and dropped the sand level
by a few feet causing potential undermining of my
bulkheading, preventing my enjoyment of the beach, and it's
a very serious issue. So I would ask the Board to grant the
Manago permit for the removal, for the destruction of the
jetty to restore it to a nonfunctioning state, so that the
natural flow can be restored and the beach rebuilt.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MS. BIBLOW: I would like to respond to a couple of things
that Mr. Gaffney said because I am involved in the lawsuit,
and I do represent the Managos in the lawsuit.
Whether the judge issues an order saying that it's
the Manago jetty, the Aloya jetty or no one's jetty, the
problem is that that jetty is destroying Nassau Point and
this Board has an obligation to correct that. In 2001, you
had an opportunity to do that, and what you did was you
relied upon the good faith of the Aloyas and the Managos to
try to work it out themselves. Unfortunately, the AIoyas
did not act in good faith. The minute they walked out of
this hearing in 2001 they refused to do anything about it.
We had no choice but to sue, but that does not change the
situation which is that this jetty is too high, too wide,
too long and it is destroying a beautiful beach that goes
all along Nassau Point.
As I said, I do have Mr. Mulnar here, and I would
really encourage the Board if they had any questions about
the devastation this jetty is causing. This is not a Iow
profile jetty; this is high profile. This is a high
profile, tremendously high jetty. There is nothing that the
Supreme Court has done to stop this Board from
acting. There is no stay in place that prevents you from
acting in your lawful jurisdiction about this jetty. Thank
you.
56
Board of Trustees 57 April 20, 2005
MR. GAFFNEY: If I may, since the matter is before
the Supreme Court, in all its various issues, many of which
are very complicated, what we have heard tonight is
basically anecdotal information from people that are
potential witnesses in that same action. They're not being
cross-examined, time and places are not being established,
it's not in accordance with the rules of evidence, and I'm
not suggesting that it's inappropriate. What I'm suggesting
is that we have at our disposal in less than a month a
vehicle for establishing the truth, not what people
remember, not anecdotal information, not unsubstantiated
evidence, but a trail process that can establish the
truth. It can establish who the owner of the property
is. By the way, one of the causes of action is for
injunctive relief, asking the court to compel the removal of
the jetty, but of course, it first has to be determined that
it is, in fact, different from what the ^loyas are saying,
and that's a process that has to go on. And I would suggest
that it's not a process that we're going to get to the
bottom of tonight. We're asking to let the process that's
under way in the Supreme Court fulfill itself. There will
be testimony, there will be an opportunity to rebut, there
will be an application of the rules of evidence, and the
court will make a determination on these issues. Have the
^loyas been negligent, should the plaintiffs be entitled to
injunctive relief, were the Aloyas negligent per se; is
there trespass; is there nuisance. This is a rather
complicated real property litigation. It involves some
relatively serious issues. Once those things have been
sorted out in the proper form, the Trustees have not lost
their opportunity to act in a way that they feel is
appropriate. Whoever it is that's determined to be the
owner of the jetty then would be the subject of that
action. Nobody denies, and certainly I wouldn't, that the
Boards of Trustees has an absolute right to control the way
construction is done in a wetlands area, to compel the
removal of the jetty too, if it sees fit, all of those things.
But the applicant is making the request today to remove
their jetty. It has not be been established by any means
that it is, in fact, their jetty. An argument could be made
if it is their jetty and it is in violation, it's been that
way for a long time. This jetty has been there, it was my
understanding, since the '50s. Even if it's true that it's
been there since the '60s, the period of time that it's been
there under the control and open and notorious ownership of
the Aloyas raises some significant issues which are part of
57
Board of Trustees 58 April 20, 2005
the defense in that action. So it seems to me that this
would probably not be the best forum to reach a conclusion
on those very complicated issues certainly since it's this
close. At the conclusion of that action I'm sure Judge
Baisley will recommend solutions that he feels is
appropriate and certainly the Board of Trustees would be
able to act.
MR. JOHNSTON: Artie has asked me an answer that I cannot
give, and maybe I've gotten Mr. Gaffney's opinion on it as
one of the lawyers in the case, do you represent that the
ownership of the jetty will be determined by this court
case?
MS. BIBLOW: It's certainly something that --
MR. JOHNSTON: Is there a possibility that that will be
decided by Judge Baisley at the outcome of the case, the
ownership of the jetty?
MS. BIBLOW: The ownership of the jetty is certainly an
issue in the lawsuit. But there is another issue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's what I was going to ask because
that's central to what we're going to decide here
eventually. This has come up many times in the past, who
owns it, and then we usually aren't charged with deciding
who owns it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We table and let a court of law decide
it.
MS. BIBLOW: Let me suggest this then. This jetty was
repaired by the Aloyas, there's no doubt about this, without
permits in 2001, and you can order them to undo that, that
you definitely have the authority to do, and if you do that
the jetty will go back to a nonfunctioning jetty, which is
what it was before they illegally, improperly and unlawfully
did what they were going to do. I do also want to say
something about the court case because Mr. Gaffney makes it
seem like May 4th everything will be decided. That is not
true. There's a summary judgment argument on for I think
it's May 3rd. The judge can rule from the bench. The judge
doesn't have to rule from the bench. He can say there's
issues of facts, we're going to go to trial, there's
appeals. I may be back in front of you in another year or
two, meanwhile, the devastation that this jetty is causing
continues to occur. This Board has the jurisdiction to
order that to be undone.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We can't order something to be done or
undone on someone else's property. We really need to make a
determination on who owns the jetty and then who owns the
property.
58
Board of Trustees 59 April 20, 2005
MS. BIBLOW: But if you have someone that has illegally
without permits done something to the jetty, can't you order
them to undo that, regardless of who owns that? I think you
can do that. They have acted illegally. They have violated
your code.
MR. GRAHAM: This has been going on a number of years. I
too have had to file a very costly lawsuit so I can protect
the value of my property. Knowing how the courts work, it
will be a number of more years before this issue is
resolved. There are two surveys in front of you, one from
each side, that show the ownership of this piece of land.
There's two surveys. So, if we could talk about adverse
possession and other issues, but there's nothing been
presented here on the other side by way of survey that shows
the ownership.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's what I was going to ask next.
MR. GRAHAM: Meantime, the courts take years and I've
watched my beach drop one, two, three feet, and my
bulkheading is being undermined, and that's a risk that I
can't afford to wait on.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: During the course of discussion on this,
we saw the aerial photograph before the jetty was repaired
showing a beach to the north and a beach to the south, where
did we see that photograph? It shows a beach on the north
ask south.
MS. BIBLOW: I think there's an aerial photograph from 1996,
and then there's an aerial photograph from 2002, that shows
the difference once this jetty was reconstructed.
MR. GAFFNEY: The applicants have also brought sand in from
time to time.
MS. BIBLOW: Not after 1996 we have not brought sand in.
MR. GAFFNEY: The point that I think needs to be made again
is that we could sit here today with dueling surveys,
surveys which purport to show that the property is owned by
this party, the jetty is owned by that party. We can have
anecdotal testimony about what happened in the past when a
forum exists to actually put on the stand the surveyors and
find out what the basis of their surveys were, what
monuments they worked from, and do that in a way that's
designed to determine what the truth is, and designed to
determine what the facts are. The submission of a survey,
which purports to do A versus B, that's not the kind of
evidence that would be necessary to be determinative of who
owns the property, who owns the jetty in question. And then
also determine what size is the jetty, how big is the jetty,
how small is it, is it within code, not within code; all
59
Board of Trustees 60 April 20, 2005
those issues are part of the lawsuit. I would suggest that
part of why we're here today is to lay the table for an
action that's pending in Supreme Court. It's kind of a boot
strap effort, if you will. A ruling from the Trustees that
this was the case or that was the case going into a
litigation on the entire issue could be of some value. What
else explains the fact that the applicants made the
application as if it were their jetty when in their
pleadings they say it's partially their jetty.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Could both of you supply us with the
pleadings for each side?
MR. GAFFNEY: I have the plaintiff's complaint with me
today.
MS. BIBLOW: I don't know what you want. I could certainly
provide you with the summary judgment motions, which would
give you all the exhibits you need. My side I can get you a
full set of papers, I don't know that the complaint's going
to be helpful. I want to clarify one thing, there were two
surveys submitted with the application. One was done by my
clients, the Managos; one was done by the Aloyas, and both
surveys clearly show that the line that the jetty from the
bulkhead out is from my client's property. This isn't as if
I sent you two surveys that we did two surveys. One was
done by his client, a survey, by the way, they were
instructed to get my the DEC, and they never turned it over
to the DEC because it didn't agree with what they were
telling the DEC.
MR. GAFFNEY: 'Subsequent surveys have indicated otherwise.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: One more point though, just a brief
comment because we have to table this and move on. Really I
think from my experience, a Iow profile jetty would serve
both purposes here and it would serve both properties. This
is not a Iow profile jetty. If anyone whether it was the
Aloyas, the Managos or anyone came in for a reconstruction
for a jetty, which they commonly do on the bay, we see it
month after month, we would and the DEC would both require a
Iow profile jetty, one that would trap the sand on one side
and allow it to pass through to the other, and that would
probably remediate a lot of or most of the erosion, and the
property issue at that point would be completely moot
because both property owners would benefit from the
reconstruction of this jetty.
MS. BIBLOW: Our clients are reasonable.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You have a coastal erosion expert here?
MS. BIBLOW: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Could he stand up? I want to ask him a
60
Board of Trustees 61 April 20, 2005
brief question, very brief.
MR. MULNAR: My name is Gary Mulnar, I'm with FPM Group,
engineers from Ronkonkoma. I've lived and worked on Long
Island pretty much all of my career. I've done much coastal
and marine environment work.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Have you visited the site?
MR. MULNAR: Yes, I have.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Are you familiar with the Iow profile
jetties to the north of it?
MR. MULNAR: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And you see how they trap sand on both
sides, maintain beach on both sides?
MR. MULNAR: What you're talking about on the Iow profile
jetties, I'm not sure that they are the best thing all the
time. Jetties should be planned more on a global basis.
When you put in a series of jetties, they should taper down
as you get down to the last jetty to minimize the erosion,
that kind of planning was never done on this string of
jetties on Nassau Point. I think that's part of the
problem. What I can see and from my experience, my client
and the downstream clients, which would be south in a
southerly direction, would benefit by having that jetty
totally taken away. There is riprap and evidence of
previous attempts at jetties that are still having some
effect along that shoreline. They're more porous, they're
trapping sand and allowing sand to go from one beach to the
other. So I think that those stone jetties are probably
more effective, they're lower profile, which would meet the
definition that the DEC and the Town would like to see,
certainly a Iow profile jetty would be a lot better than
what's there now. As more of a quick cure, I would like to
see it removed. But if it couldn't be removed, I would like
to see it at least cut down by at least half and lowered no
higher than the mean high tide. And that would allow sand
to flow over onto my client's property. Not being a legal
expert, the Board, there's a problem here, and this thing's
going to go on for years and years if something's not done.
The shoreline and I believe the ocean floor is under the
jurisdiction of you, and the only reason you need to make a
decision on who owns it is so you can decide on who's going
to have to make a correction. And it's my understanding
my client is willing to make that correction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I11 make a motion to table that
application.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor?. ALL AYES.
6!
Board of Trustees 62 April 20, 2005
MS. BIBLOW: Does that mean we're on next month?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Automatically, yes. And we'd like some
clarification as to ownership because we cannot give someone
permission.
MR. GRAHAM: Let's say it takes another year.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think you have to prove it to the Town
in this case, you don't have to prove it to the judge. The
judge doesn't have jurisdiction to the Town. If either side
can prove ownership to the Town, there is some question
on the survey, and I'm looking at the Joseph Ingegno, which
is certified to the Aloyas, it would seem that the jetty
starts on the Manago's property and quickly crosses over.
But I don't know how far the property lines extend to the
east, so it's really unclear as to say where does the
private property end and where does the state property
begin. I think we want to clear that up also.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Can I understand that regardless of that
does that change the outcome of what your recommendation is
going to be with respect to the repairs?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's just the ownership issue.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Is there a way you can rule on the second
part before then, say it needs to be done regardless of who the
owner is?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, because we can't give someone
permission to go on someone else's property. I don't think
we have to wait for the judge's ruling, you have to prove
that to the town.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: I don't have any ownership here, but I
have adverse impacts. I want to understand what I can do as
a neighbor. I don't have any ownership claim, but I'm being
adversely impacted. What can I do? I don't care who owns
it, I just want it fixed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I think you're doing all you can do.
don't know what else you can do.
MR. MULNAR: Either survey shows that the jetty cleady
starts on the Manago property, then it crosses over.
Exactly where it crosses over would be debatable. A
property line has zero width, so they have to draw something
and just drawing it on those surveys the width of the
property line drawn is half a foot to a foot in width. So
that in itself causes a great error. From my estimation
looking at both surveys, the Aloya survey shows about 12
feet of the groin on the Manago property and the Manago
survey shows about 17 feet. The high water line, or the old
high water line, changes, which is a dynamic situation,
which you well know, the high water line is only a few feet
62
Board of Trustees 63 April 20, 2005
beyond that. So if the Managos own 17 feet and they remove
their 17 feet, there would only be a few more feet before it
starts getting into the Town's jurisdiction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's all stated --
MR. G^FFNEY: If I might, again, we get into the issue of
dueling surveys. I've been involved in litigation at other
times, where the lines and surveys, the monuments from which
surveys were started, those things have been intensely
litigated on those issues, so looking at a survey which
maybe guaranteed to one party or another and differing
surveys and the possibility of a third survey or fourth
survey, these are issues that can't be resolved by just
looking at a survey. Once that issue is brought into
contention and that's part of it. Beyond that there are
prescriptive rights that may accrue to people even if they
have property, if they have maintained property on someone
else's property. I'm not suggesting that that's the case,
but what I'm suggesting is that all of those issues are tied
up into that one piece of litigation, one lawsuit where all
of those issues will be decided, and I can't tell you that
it will be decided in its entirety on May 3rd, but
it's before Judge Baisley for oral arguments on a motion for
summary judgment. We'll get closer at that point.
The whole issue of how large the survey is. It was
alleged that in 2001 the Town cited, the Board of Trustees
cited the Aloyas, their application in 2001 was for a deck.
It had nothing to do with it. And it's my understanding
that the Trustees said why are we bringing this other issue
up, they're here for a deck; this is not before us. So
there's a lot of issues that are coming up anecdotally that
are coming up where people may remember in a way that may be
different than it happened, and this is hardly the best
forum to get that nuanced testimony.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. We have voted.
17. En-Consultants, inc. on behalf of JO ELLEN &
WILLIAM AHMUTY requests a Wetland Permit to remove and
replace in-place approximately 67 linear feet of existing
timber bulkhead with vinyl bulkhead and backfill with
approximately 25 cubic yards of clean sand to be trucked in
from an upland source. Remove and replace existing 3.5'
5.5' timber steps to beach. Located. 3405 Bay Shore Road,
Greenport. SCTM#53-6-10.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to speak
on behalf of this application? No comments from the
audience? CAC recommended approval of the application with
63
Board of Trustees 64 April 20, 2005
the condition of a 20 foot non-turf buffer landward of the
bulkhead. As far as Board comments, I looked at this. It
looked like a common in-kind/in-place replacement of a
bulkhead. I spoke to Rob on the phone and the applicant
agreed on a 10 foot non-turf buffer, it's a very small yard.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Good
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: If there are no other comments I'll make
a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE POLIVVODA: I'll make a motion to approve the permit
as written with a 10 foot non-turf buffer.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
20. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of
PAUL MALONEY requests a Wetland Permit to remove the
existing 4' by 25' catwalk and dispose of same. Replace
with new 4' by 25' catwalk, in-kind leading to a 32" by 16'
ramp onto a 6' by 20' floating dock secured by two 2-pile
dolphins. Located: 1020 Goose Creek Lane, Southold.
SCTM#78-8-3
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here who would like to
speak on behalf of this application?
MR. COSTELLO: George Costello, Sr. representing Paul
Maloney. I understand the Board has concerns with the
channel, the waterway channel out there and make sure we
don't obstruct it. What I did was I measured the waterway
itself at high tide, from high tide to high tide to that
little island across the way it's 138 feet, at Iow tide
minus 25 feet. So there's 83 feet of water at Iow tide and
from the Iow tide mark or the high tide mark, we are 30 feet
into the water. The center of the channel is actually 57
feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you have soundings?
MR. COSTELLO: Yes, 47 inches.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you have them for the file?
MR. COSTELLO: Yes. They're on your copy of your drawing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What we wanted was soundings all the way
across showing the channel.
MR. COSTELLO: No. I didn't go ail the way across. I went
57 feet into the center of the channel.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I know that area, George. It's a very
narrow channel. Pretty big boats use this channel, if you
put a float with a boat on the outside, anyone who has to
navigate around it is going to run aground.
64
Board of Trustees 65 April 20, 2005
MR. COSTELLO: You know what the catch 22 is, the DEC is
going to request that I have three or four feet of
water. They're going to request it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Maybe reconstruct without the float?
MR. COSTELLO: My only option is to pull it back to satisfy
you guys, then fight with the DEC, which is going to
happen.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you want to do that now or do you want
to wait a month?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We should stake it.
MR. COSTELLO: I'd like to hold off and see what the DEC is
going to say.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Okay. Should I table or make a
motion to close?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Table.
MS. TETRAULT: Also, just remember you asked about removing
the fence.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. They've got that chicken wire fence
right on the wetlands, they have to get that out of there.
MS. TETRAULT: Also, they had mulched right down to the
marsh. They're mulched over the bank as well. I don't know
what the fence was.
MS. TETRAULT: You said to pull it back to the brick
fireplace any mulching
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to table.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
21. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of
ARNOLD BARTON requests a Wetland Permit to repair
in-kind/in-place approximately 124 linear feet of existing
bulkhead. Located: 5295 Nassau Point Road,
Cutchogue. SCTM# 111-9-13.
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here who would like to
comment on this application?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Description reads in-kind/in-place, but I
would assume that they want the permit so if they have to,
they can at a future date because the description in the
permit which is for pilings, but the description on the
agenda is for in-kind/in-place.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Either way.
TRUSTEE KING: Either way it doesn't make any difference.
If there are no other comments, I'll make a motion to close
the hearing.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
65
Board of Trustees 66 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
22. Pat C. Moore, Esq. on behalf of MARY DIGREGORIO
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' by 58' fixed
timber dock, a 3' by 16' ramp and a 6' by 20' floating
dock. Located: 100 Oak Street, Cutchogue. SCTM#136-1-36.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone here who would like to
speak on behalf of this application?
MS. MOORE: Pat Moore. We had this here quite some time
ago, we have the drawings. The Board asked us to push the
dock and float back to the level of some adjacent docks.
Sea Level Mapping did that for us. We think that this is
going to cause a problem with the DEC because it brings the
depth of water to about one and-a-half feet, and I think
that's just not going to be acceptable. We will make our
best effort to go to the DEC and make an application of
this. I would remind the Board that the way the docks in
this area work, you're pushing us back to a cove. This is
the revised drawing (handing). You can see that the dock to
the north is set back because of the cove that's there. Our
property is sticking out further, and you're asking us to be
in line with a relatively old dock that predates the depth
requirements of the DEC and the dock to the northwest that's
further back. We have done what you have asked, but we
really think it's going to be a problem. We would certainly
suggest pushing it out somewhat, even pushing it out to two
feet of water gives us a better chance with the DEC. But we
have done what have you asked.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The only thing is what we've asked is an
established pier line there. Those docks were built before
the DEC had their water depth concerns, but like we have
said before we can't have a dock going out that much further
than the neighbor's docks. They should conform with the
pier line. Yes, they will have a problem with the DEC, but
in most cases people are going to with a fixed dock and a
pole and not have the float. So if they don't get a float,
I would be inclined to approve this unless some other Board
member has a problem because it adheres to the pier line,
but if they don't get a float with the DEC, they could get a
dock with a pole and just tie to the fixed dock.
MS. MOORE: Keep in mind that your pole lines have to be
with properties that are consistent on a straight line.
When you are taking a pole line based on a curve, you're
66
Board of Trustees 67 April 20, 2005
artificially creating a setback on the property which
doesn't follow the water line.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I know what you're saying.
MS. MOORE: It creates a non-navigable condition and that's
not the intent behind the Board's -
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's the lay of the land there. I don't
think we can do much about that.
MS. MOORE: Navigability is one of those kind of rights that
each property owner --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We can talk all night about
navigability.
MS. MOORE: We'll move forward with this drawing. We think
you should keep some reasonable thoughts, be reasonable
with us. Not even 10 feet, it probably is less, another
four feet at least gets us closer to the two foot mark, and
it at least puts a boat within the two foot depth of water
range. This clearly puts us between one and-a-half and the
two.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm sorry. Any other comments on this?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Looks good.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Okay. Pat?
MS. MOORE: We'll go with this and go to the DEC and see
what they say. If you can persuade them to give us
something that works, we're willing to live with it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The picket fence was an issue.
MS. MOORE: I think we well agreed the last time, they have
young children and right now the picket fence provides a
safety feature. I think you asked that within five years it
would be removed and the applicant was here at the time, he
had no problem with that five years, his kids would be old
enough.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make a motion to approve the plans
received April 20, 2005 for the 36 foot dock, 10 foot ramp,
and a 6' by 20' float within the pier line of the adjoining
docks.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
MR. MCGREEVY: Al, in the final conclusion was it our
consideration of the CAC that the catwalk be extended on the
landward side to grade level and to the masonry wall for
consideration of the wetlands? I don't know if that was
finally put in there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, it wasn't. Is that a concern of the
applicant?
67
Board of Trustees 68 April 20, 2005
MS. MOORE: I'm sorry. You want us to take the catwalk and
bring it up to --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. The CAC recommended that the
applicant extend the catwalk to the masonry wall.
MR. MCGREEVY: Extend it landward to grade level to that
masonry wall.
MS. MOORE: That's quite a bit further back. It certainly
makes it more convenient to get onto your catwalk. I don't
think the applicants would have a problem with that. I
think we were trying to limit the length of the catwalk.
MR. MCGREEVY: Landward no problem.
MS. MOORE: Does the Board want to entertain that?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Artie, what do you think?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Yes, I think it's a good idea.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Peggy?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is it to get it over the marsh?
MS. MOORE: Elevate it over the marsh. So what I did was
took the catwalk and extended it to approximately the wall;
is that all right?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. So you can get us a new plan.
MS. MOORE: I will do that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And we'll issue you a permit. I'll make a motion
to approve roughly a 60 foot catwalk.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor?. ALL AYES.
23. Patricia C. Moore, Esq. on behalf of GEORGE
KOFINAS requests a Wetland Permit to renovate the existing
residence, construct a second floor addition, install an
in-ground swimming pool and pavilion. Located: 552 East
Road, Cutchogue. SCTM#110-7-18.1
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here who would
like to speak to this application?
MS. MOORE: Patricia Moore and Craig Arm on behalf of
Mr. and Mrs. Kofinas. This is an existing house with some
renovations going on with the house, and the additions are
all on the house on the landward side. The pool was just
about touching the 100 foot jurisdictional limit and because
of retaining walls, all of the activity on this property it
just made sense to present it before this Board and have the
Board review it. I know you were on the site, and if you
have any comments.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: There was a request to prove that the
beach house was built prior to 1991.
MS. MOORE: You can see by the age of it, I think you can
conclude that it's before '91.
68
Board of Trustees 69 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Prior to '91 I was very young.
MS. MOORE: A mere child, but construction standards have
improved since that time.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We questioned how extensive it was.
MS. MOORE: You realize there's no activity going on at the
beach house. The only application is for the house and up
high.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But we had a discussion with Craig on the
site about the beach house and the fence and getting permits
for everything that the applicant thought appropriate at the
same time
MR. ARM: I had been trying to find some information that
showed it was there prior to 1991, which I have not been
able to do yet. What I was able to find was they had a pool
in this location previously, and in 1991, when they had the
application for the pool, I do have a copy of the
certificate of occupancy which approved their fence which
was actually given in '93, which part of that pool enclosure
obviously it's using the back part of that beach house. So
that is what I do have. So far that's the only records that
I am able to find.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Didn't we also ask that that fence
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right.
MS. MOORE: I did have Craig check with the Building
Department, he presented a letter to the Board which --
MR. ARM: I believe it was dropped off the 19th. They're
talking about when we were at the site we had a discussion
about the possibility of moving the fence and the Kofinases,
if that would be okay with them. The one problem was when I
went to the Building Department and spoke to them there were
a whole series of things they were questioning how we could
actually achieve something that would be a legal pool fence
in any of the locations that I was suggesting to them. We
had mentioned on top of the Iow retaining wall that's there,
they said the only problem is they would consider anything,
virtually a solid wall or nothing shy of constructing a
regular pool fence at that location. If it would have a
foothold where somebody could step over it, it wouldn't meet
any requirements of a pool fence. And the other issue was a
termination point as far as across the top of the stairs at
the landing there were some issues there where they were
wondering where do we end it and stop it. It just seemed
like it was going to be a lot more work than Damon from the
Building Department, his recommendation was it was probably
best off to stay where it was. It didn't create any issue
69
Board of Trustees 70 April 20, 2005
on their behalf as far as for a pool enclosure not that the
Trustees wouldn't perhaps like to see it elsewhere, but it
became an issue with the Building Department and where we
could actually put it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We have approved fences down on the bluff
on the Sound for a pool. So they're not visible.
MS. MOORE: Into the bluff you mean?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So they're not visible.
MS. MOORE: In other words, bring this fence up into the
bluff some, set it back five or ten feet. Right?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We had talked about putting it by the
retaining wall so you have an unrestricted view, then the
fence is set down the bluff so you don't see it. It's still
legal.
MS. MOORE: It has to be a proper enclosure, right. The
only way you would be taking the existing fence, it's pretty
stable there, you have a lot of vegetation, everything is
very stabilized, you would actually be removing it and
putting a new fence into the bluff and jeopardizing
stability of that bank. So it seems to me that the little
good it does in visibility, it might end up compromising the
bank.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I think we were concerned about being on
the beach. It was with the animals, it was restricting a
lot of movement. I thought we talked about bringing it up
and backing it up to that retaining wall, since that's going
to be worked on anyway.
MS. MOORE: It can't because it would be in violation of the
enclosure ordinance, that's what you asked Damon because a
fence has to be actually to grade. You can't have anything
that you could potentially stand on to go over it. That's
the limitation.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It would just be seawards of the new
retaining wall.
MR. ARM: They're proposing instead of putting it right on
the existing retaining wall, where we could step on the
retaining wall, just putting it in the bank just beyond that
wall. So it's just not visible just down the bluff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It wouldn't be as visible because you have
the retaining wall, it would only be part of the fence, but
from the outside, it would be a full height fence,
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It would be enclosed.
MS. MOORE: If you were to pick a topography at like level
28, topographic line 28.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just seaward because the retaining wall is
going to be rebuilt, correct?
7O
Board of Trustees 7 ! April 20, 2005
MS. MOORE: Correct. So that would be 32?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 34, 36, 38.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Back it right up.
MS. MOORE: I don't think they're going to like the idea, as
long as they don't see it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, no.
MS. MOORE: Oh, the short one.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's going to extend behind that retaining
wall, so visually it's going to be the same.
MR. ARM: If we put the railing in front we would visually
have to hide the top two, two and-a-half feet, whatever.
MS. MOORE: I don't know what the Kofinases would say to
that. We can talk to Mr. and Mrs. Kofinas.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's not like you're losing --
MS. MOORE: What we can do is have this approved conditioned
on that, if it's a problem we'll come back and amend the
permit, so that it enables them to move forward.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Okay, could you come up here and take a
look?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Any other comments?
MR. MCGREEVY: Condition a dry well installed to contain
pool backwash.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes. I'll make a motion to close the
hearing.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the
Wetland Permit to renovate the existing residence, construct
a second floor addition, install an in-ground swimming pool
with dry wells for the backwash of the swimming pool and
pavilion. I also see that the letter includes gutters and
dry wells, hay bales with a silt barrier and on the
condition that -- and approve it so that the wire fence will be
brought up to the top of the bluff.
MS. MOORE: Can we just say a fence that complies with the
code requirements on pool enclosure?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes, that fence.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Bring in a new plan.
24. Patdcia C. Moore on behalf of NORMAN & JUDITH
SHAPP requests a Wetland Permit for the existing docking
facility, consisting of a 3' by 30' timber dock, 3' by 12'
ramp and a 6' by 16' float. Located: 485 Orchard Way,
Southold. SCTM#89-2-7
71
Board of Trustees 72 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak on
behalf of applicant?
MS. MOORE: I have for you copy of the order that was put in
for Peat and Son Corp. in Westhampton for the two types of
shrubs or the two types of plantings that have been agreed
to. I have that here tonight. We put in that order. I had
submitted to the Trustees an offer in compromise, which I'm
prepared to sign, we would have had it prepared earlier but
we were kind of waiting to see when the plans might be
available. So we put the order in. Doroski's Nursery has
given us a proposal, the Board has approved that proposal,
and we're prepared to proceed as soon as the plans come in
with the proposal and there was a two week wait, they had 500
of the Iow bush blueberries, but they didn't have the others
and rather complicate things, Heather and I agreed we'll
just keep it the way it was proposed with half and half.
That's what we have agreed to. I don't know, at this point do
you want me to sign the Southold Town Trustees offer in
compromise? It does provide for in the event that we close
title before the planting is completed that I will hold back
in escrow to insure the completion. I want to make sure Mr.
Doroski is paid, everybody's paid since he was kind enough
to come in and give us a proposal.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just one comment on this application, the
CAC recommends disapproving because the existing docking
facility doesn't match the submitted plans.
MS. MOORE: We talked about it last time, I actually did a
plan specifically for that dock. So that plan was drawn by
Sea Level Mapping because there wasn't a good enough drawing
it was only hand drawings from prior owners.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I thought we measured that on site.
MS. MOORE: Yes, and you confirmed. It was all popped up, so
it could have been a difficult thing to measure. But I can
assure you as an officer of the court, I had that plan done
specifically for that dock. So my client actually paid for
the drawing.
MR. MCGREEVY: The drawing didn't match the actual dock.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'm looking for the drawing.
MS. MOORE: I executed the offer and compromise and I
attached the order of Peat and Son.
MS. MOORE: Sea Level Mapping generally does very good plans
so I can't imagine it not being accurate.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It looks good.
MR. MCGREEVY: The designer's drawing that was on our
application on inspection of the actual dock, it did not
match.
72
Board of Trustees 73 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Because we did measure, we always measure.
MR. MCGREEVY: If I'm not mistaken, I think in the drawing
there was an extra piling, which on that catwalk, if I
recall because that goes back a ways.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Doesn't show any pilings.
MS. MOORE: I don't have any piles on here. There's one
attaching the existing float.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There's one in the cross section, is that
it, the piling?
MR. MCGREEVY: Supporting the catwalk?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No, supporting the float.
MR. JOHNSTON: The cost of the 500 plants is going to be
$4,000, Doroski's proposal is for $13,000, I want to know
what the other $9,000 is for. Are they charging $9,000 to
put it in the ground?
MS. MOORE: No, actually the $13,000 was for them to
purchase the plants. My client went directly to
Westhampton, which is where they got the plants before, and
Doroski worked out an arrangement where installation is
going to be $5,000 and the plants are -- I just have the
proposal today.
MR. JOHNSTON: So they saved $4,000 by making a telephone
call?
MS. MOORE: You got it. But I'm willing to escrow the
amount that's required. I'll escrow the $13,000 to cover
my exorbitant legal fees if they don't do the work.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So they found the planting material in
Westhampton?
MS. MOORE: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comment?
MR. NICHOLS: John Nichols, Junior, I also represent the
Shapps, I'm the real estate broker, and I just want to ask
for support of this permit. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment? I'll make a motion to
close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to approve the request
for the docking facility as we have straightened out those
dimensions with the condition that the planting be done and
inspected and then the permit will be released.
MS. MOORE: No. That's what the escrow's for.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'm not -- anyway, I'm not interested in
escrow, I want to see it planted. There's no point in
escrow if the plants are in Westhampton and they can just
plant them.
73
Board of Trustees 74 April 20, 2005
MS. MOORE: Understand, we have a contract application. Our
buyer is going to force us to plant the plants, and he
won't close without a permit. That's why I'm holding back
more than what you see is required to assure that it's going
to be planted.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All he has to do is plant it.
MS. MOORE: But the plants aren't going to be here for two
weeks and Doroski has to get his men out there. I anticipate it will
be done within the next month. But the whole purpose of
having it accomplished today, and my client's willingness to
do it despite other objections, is so we can get the permit
so we can close. We are unable to close out without the
dock permit in hand. Why have an escrow, why have all
this process if you're not willing to release the dock
permit. Why in good faith would we --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is not about good faith. Because
when we first issued a permit to the Shapps for a
nondisturbance buffer, they went out and they destroyed the
nondisturbance buffer. And then when they got a violation
and they replanted it and we showed in the record that it
was replanted, we went out again this year, and it's gone
again.
MS. MOORE: I would respectfully disagree that, in fact, the
first time the violation occurred was a landscaper that went
beyond the hay bale line. It wasn't a clearing of the
property, the property had been cleared by two owners prior
to the Shapps. So they came in and they did a landscape
plan because it was the more efficient way of handling it
rather than going through the trial and having the Town
prove the fact that somebody did something wrong. We got
that permit, you inspected it, the plants were there. My
client tells me the plants are still there. The real estate
broker says the weeds were there last year. At this point
the weeds are going to start growing. At the time you
inspected last month, the property is dormant. They have
not cleared, they have not cut the grass. In fact, they
want to sell the property because they can't enjoy the back
of their property. They have done everything humanly
possible to keep this Board happy, and you keep blaming them
for things they don't do. If you're going to hold up our
closing, then we'll withdraw everything, then you go to
trial and prove this case because I'm going to have real
estate brokers testify that they did not clear. I'm going
to have my client testify that they did not clear. And
you're going to have to establish has there been clearing or
hasn't there been. The whole purpose of doing it tonight
74
Board of Trustees 75 April 20, 2005
and giving you the consent, giving you in writing
representations, I as an attorney have to hold back escrow,
we cannot schedule a closing without the dock permit; that's
a condition of our contract. And I can't fome the seller
to close until I have that dock permit in hand. Why an
escrow? Why have my client pay $5,000 more than it really
will cost? That's an extra guarantee. Believe me, they're
going to try and get this done as soon as possible because
it's in their best interest. The buyer's going to want us
to do it. They don't want anybody with anything over their
shoulders. We're doing our best to accomplish everything,
but all the negotiations up until now have been with the
understanding that the dock permit would be issued tonight,
and that has been our emphasis on trying to get this
resolved.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What negotiations?
MS. MOORE: I've been negotiating with staff people since
day one to try and resolve this because otherwise we were
going to end up in a court, and you were going to have to
prove things that would end up delaying the whole process.
If we end up losing our contract, believe me my
client will have an action against the Town because there is
no proof so far that they have done anything.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well then who did the clearing?
MS. MOORE: There has been no clearing. That's precisely
the point. If you take a rake, you're going to find mulch
and you're going to find the plants that have been planted
and have been there planted for two years.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And they're this big after two years?
MS. MOORE: When you can't fertilize and you can barely
weed, the plants do not grow to any kind of
satisfaction. The plants that you recommended, there's not
the soil consistency, you have an area that doesn't grew
very well, you have mulch on top of that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We were out there. Everything is a
uniform height. The whole nondisturbance buffer is a whole
uniform site. Don't you think after two years everything
would have grown?
MS. MOORE: If you go out in August, of course, but in two
years it doesn't grow. When you have small plants, they
don't generate, they don't thrive, but the plants are there.
If you were to dig under all of the activity, all of the
leaves, you'd find the plants there. It's very insulting to
somebody who went and planted, had the Town inspect to
verify that it was planted, has a record of that whole thing
in your file, and then be told that they didn't plant or
75
Board of Trustees 76 April 20, 2005
that they took out the plants. Why would it make sense to have
somebody take out the plants that they planted; that makes
absolutely no sense. And the real estate broker was going
to look in their files to see if they had pictures of the
back of the property. My client's mother passed away and
they're in Florida, and they can't be here tonight.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm just one Board member. I made a
resolution and there's no guarantee I'm going to get it
approved.
MS. MOORE: I would ask the rest of the Board in good faith,
given all the negotiations and the guarantees that you have
in your file we get a permit so we can move forward and
close on our property.
MS. TETRAULT: The plants that were proposed and planted
before were five gallon size blueberry, that's pretty
big.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Also black cherry?
MS. MOORE: That's not black cherry planted. There were
never black cherry planted. Those were options that Chris
Pickerell had given an option to the client of three
different plants. They didn't plant any black cherry. The
blueberry were not five gallon containers.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyway, I have made a motion and the
motion actually guarantees the applicant a dock.
MS. TETRAULT: Would the buyer at the closing accept a
letter that says you will get your dock permit as soon as --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Why not?
MS. MOORE: I have William Price is the attorney on the
other side who tells me without a dock permit, he will not
schedule a closing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh What's the problem? I made a motion to
guarantee the applicant a dock.
MS. MOORE: But you're not releasing the permit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there a second?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It guarantees you a permit
MS. MOORE: I hope he'll accept that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's guaranteed.
MS. MOORE: This was all guaranteed, my representations, my
signings are all guaranteed, and here I am saying what
happens to the dock.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's right here waiting for you.
MS. MOORE: But you don't release it until the planting
OCCURS.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The planting plan was submitted, the
76
Board of Trustees 77 April 20, 2005
planting plan was approved so we could have a public hearing
an approve a dock permit.
MS. MOORE: But plants aren't available. I understand that.
If you had been willing to or the suggestion was that all
the plants would be the blueberries, we would be able to get
all of them as once. But we chose not to complicate your
lives by giving you the proposal that was originally
given.
25. Patricia C. Moore on behalf of MATT-A-MAR BY
THE BAY, LLC requests a Wetland Permit to construct boat
racks and a parking area. Located: 650 First Street, New
Suffolk. SCTM#117-8-18.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone here who would like to
speak in favor of the application?
MS. MOORE: I understand you want us to stake the racks,
which we'll stake the corners so you can see precisely where
the development is occurring?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
MS. TETRAULT: And something that shows the height too.
MS. MOORE: You have the cross-section, this is a principal
use, the Zoning code allows us to go to 35 feet from the
racks this is the maximum they will go, so 35 feet is a
house size. As a principal use, that's all I can tell
you.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I think we wanted something visual,
instead of--
MS. MOORE: I don't know how to put a pole in the air that
is 35 feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The proposal for a boat rack is 35 feet.
MS. MOORE: The proposal is for a boat rack, we'd be happy
to put up several of them. That would show you exactly the
height.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It's hard to visualize.
TRUSTEE KING: What is the height of the existing building?
MR. RAYNOR: Michael Raynor, the existing building is two
stories high. I want to say it's about 28.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Could you tack a lath on the top?
MR. RAYNOR: But is it the Trustees concern? I think it's a
Planning Board and also a Building Department issue with
height.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I think you're right.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Aesthetics.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's covered you under our code.
MS. MOORE: Height of structure?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Visual.
77
Board of Trustees 78 April 20, 2005
MR. RAYNOR: You've got Port Egypt, that's got them, New
Suffolk Shipyard.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thirty-five feet?
MR. RAYNQR: They're built.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: What's Strong's?
MS. MOORE: They should be 35 to code.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Thirty-five is maximum height for anything,
other than radio transmission or something like that.
MS. MOORE: I want to put in your file -- when was this
photograph taken?
MR. RAYNOR: '70s.
MS. MOORE: We have a photograph that Michael got from his
dad's files, it's an aerial photograph of the shipyard, and
you can see the number of buildings, ships that are there.
I think historically you know the activities that were
occurring there. But for the record for your file here's a
photograph that cleady shows the intensity of that site
(handing). They're dry rack boat racks that every marina
has. As you know, they are the preferred method of boat
storage by the DEC. The DEC doesn't encourage any further
intensification of the in-water boats, so racks are the
alternative. I'm sure there's going to be lots of comments
tonight. So I'll step aside unless you have a particular
question.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Not at the moment, thanks.
MS. MOORE: We've seen those letters. They have been
generated to the Planning Board and any Board that has
review. This application, the process that we have with
respect to the development of this property, the Building
Department has recognized that this is a permitted primary
use. We are obligated to go for site plan approval, and the
Trustees jurisdiction within '100 feet, there is some
activity with respect to the parking areas, the resurfacing
of parking areas, but I believe all the racks are actually
beyond 100 feet jurisdiction. It's hard to tell from this
site plan, I will have the site plan measured, but the water
is here. (Discussion.) This is the site plan the Planning
Board's reviewing. We have drainage for all the runoff
based on the crushed stone.
MR. RAYNOR: Everything is RCAA.
MS. MOORE: The racks and the boats, it's not roofed over.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Are there any plans to enclose this?
MS. MOORE: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Let's hear other comments. Can you get us
a copy of this?
MS. MOORE: Sure.
78
Board of Trustees 79 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone else like to speak?
MS. GRANT: Good evening, I'm Lauren Grant, president of the
New Suffolk Civic Association. I have a letter which I
would like to read to you. "Dear Mr. Krupski and
Members of the Board of Trustees, I am writing on behalf of
the New Suffolk Civic Association regarding the proposed
installation of 17 boat storage racks in New Suffolk by
Matt-a-Mar on the Bay. In addition to the boat storage
racks, Matt-a-Mar also wants to create 185 parking spaces to
accommodate those people storing their boats. Matt-a-Mar's
proposal is not in keeping with the area as to almost be
laughable. This project would seriously affect an area that
typifies and defines the hamlet of New Suffolk.
"In reviewing the plans of Matt-a-Mar on the Bay
there are many negatives, and, as far as our association is
concerned, no positive reasons to allow this installation to
take place. Yes, we want to have a marina in New Suffolk,
yes, we want to have a restaurant as part of that marina.
However, both should be small and should allow growth in
such a way that would not have a severe impact on the bay,
the land and would not obliterate the hamlet scenic
waterfront.
"The way the current proposal stands the 153 boats
and 185 cars would impact the bay and bay bottom.
Installation of the racks would disrupt the land that has
never undergone an environmental clean up to rid it of
contaminants. There is no mention in the proposal of a
pump-out facility and sanitary facilities. The danger to
the public and to the cars parked under the boat racks and
in other places in that particular area as fork lifts go
about hauling boats in and out is incomprehensible. We as a
civic association charged with the promoting the betterment
of our community feel that the people of Matt-a-Mar have no
regard for the fragile nature of the New Suffolk waterfront
as clearly demonstrated by the topping they put down in the
boat storage areas bordering the waterfront. The materials
used were discarded road surfacing taken up along Route 25
when it was resurfaced last fall. This in addition to the
existing contaminants on that land is what is now flowing
into the bay whenever it rains. Is this a responsible
action? We think not.
"We would welcome any opportunity available to us to
work with you as Trustees for the Town and with the people
from Matt-a-Mar in trying to find an amicable solution to
revitalizing the New Suffolk waterfront area.
"Sincerely, Lauren Grant, President of the New
79
Board of Trustees 80 April 20, 2005
Suffolk Civic Association."
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you, anyone else?
MR. SIMON: Michael Simon, New Suffolk. Just a few points
based on the application itself. When one looks at this
application one wonders why this application is before this
Board because the question to whether this involves whether
it is within 100 feet of proposed -- where the wetlands are
one within 100 feet, the answer is no clearly no. Clearly
we're here because the answer to that question is yes. Does
the project involve excavation or filling? Unless these
three-story boat racks are going to rest just plain on
the surface with no footings whatsoever the answer to that
question is, no, that the project involved does not involve
excavation or filling is also clearly false. I think it's
clear that some work underneath the surface is going to be
required. When one starts working on that surface there is
reason to believe and there are historical documents that we
can produce suggesting that there are serious problems
underneath the ground in that area having to do with 19th
Century activity involving oil and general problems that's
part of the history and the various attempts to try to
develop that property.
Finally, the question of describe the nature of
environmental impacts, it says no; boat storage is an
existing use. That is strictly speaking true. There are
boats, there are cradles there. Boats actually floated
off those cradles during the last major nor'easter about ten
years ago. We're not talking about one level boat with shrink
wrap over them. We're talking about three levels and cars
parked underneath, as I understand the plan, and the boats
will presumably be secured. I don't know what the
measurements were, I was told that 35 feet goes to the top
of the structure and doesn't include the boats. But I also
understand from the code that if anything is secured to the
top of the rack and it goes over 35 feet, that will be a problem.
I recognize that height, although it's required in the code, it's not
strictly part of the purview of the Trustees. Nevertheless,
there are problems of this sort and others that I think
other people have pointed out in letters that are certainly
worthy of the Board's attention. Thank you very much.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thank you.
MR. SCHULTHEIS: Good evening, I'm Jerry Schultheis from New
Suffolk. I have a couple comments I'd like to make. First
one is I don't even understand why we're having this
meeting. Chapter 58 of the Town code requires that there be
a posting of a sign seven days prior to the hearing. On
80
Board of Trustees
81
April20,2005
last Thursday I went around the entire site, there was no
sign. There are other people that have looked for that
sign, there has been no sign. There's no evidence of any
sign until, my understanding, just yesterday. So there was
never an official posting of a sign as required by the Town
code in Chapter 58. So therefore there shouldn't even be a
hearing right now because the necessary preliminary work has
not been done.
Also, mention was made of the asphalt which is
spread all over that entire property. My understanding
is that for any material to be placed on a waterfront lot,
that at least an administrative permit is required. I have
no -- there's no evidence of any permit ever being given for
that asphalt, that ground up asphalt to be placed over that
entire lot.
In my opinion that leaves that particular parcel in
violation because things were done that didn't have a
permit. So there's a violation there that needs to be
remedied, and there was never an official posting of the
hearing as required by Chapter 58.
Going further into the whole project, recently there
was the hamlet study that was done by the Town of Southold,
that particular parcel is within the hamlet district, and
clearly the scope of the project doesn't conform to that
hamlet plan.
In early 2004, when the Trustees adopted the new
Chapter 97, there was a prelude to the chapter that was on
the internet site, and it referenced certain things that the
Trustees that they said they would like to enforce.
Specific quotes from that was that "there's a rich heritage
of scenic historic and natural resources in the town." The
entire Route 25 corridor has been designated a scenic
corridor by the state; that goes from the bay to the sound.
There's a strong scenic heritage in the town and clearly a
34 foot high, three-story boat rack with car parking under
it is not a scenic thing to behold.
Talk about protection of the environment, there are
environmental hazards at that particular plot right now.
We're talking about rack storage for boat. I personally
work in a marina, and if you look at a boat, a boat in the
bilge you have oil that accumulates, battery acid,
transmission fluid, you have water. Typically when that
boat comes out of the water the drain plug is removed and
all that toxic cocktail pours all over the ground and is
transported wherever that boat goes. In some cases people,
if the plug is not removed, the bilge pump as rainwater
8l
Board of Trustees 82 April 20, 2005
fills it up will pump that same toxic mixture all over the
ground, not only that it's going to pump it on the cars that
are parked underneath there.
The parcel in question does have significant
historical value. The Town of Southold has the list of
historic documents, included on that particular parcel is
Houston's barn, the intent is to destroy that parcel, remove
that building completely. The original Galley Ho restaurant
is on that list; the original site of the post office, which
is no longer there, is there, and that's the first submarine
base in the country. All this history will be lost
forever.
We're talking about these racks being able to handle
a 15,800 pound boat. When you consider the weight of the
boat and you consider the weight of that forklift which is
going to carry it, that's a significant weight. I have
personally observed a forklift carrying a 10,000 pound boat
go over an asphalt pavement and the pavement actually
deflects under the weight of that boat. Right now the
operation down there, there's a travel lift and that travel
lift actually travels on Main Street, which is the town
road, comes up the First Street and comes over First Street
and then retrieves boats, brings it back to First Street,
brings it down to Main Street. With that much weight, with
the forklift and the weight of the boat, it's going to do
severe damage to the roads in that particular area.
There was previous mention that there's no facility
for the waste generated by the people using the boat, for
the garbage, people coming off the boat. There's a lot of
people that's going to be using the boats, and there's no
provisions for waste, no pump-out facilities that have
been taken care of in any of the plans. The application
claimed that the proposal use is incompatible with the
adjoining area. There are no boat racks in the adjoining
area. It's quite contrary to the existing use in the
area. A 34 foot high rack will severely limit the scenic
views of New Suffolk. That New Suffolk has a maritime
heritage, and that particular parcel is key to it. It's got
a lot of history to it, and it's something that really needs
to be preserved.
In summary, I think the project is out of character
with the neighborhood. It's not consistent with the
goals of the state, (inaudible) or hamlet study. It will
ruin the scenic values. The signage from the hearing
as not posted as required by Town code. The
entire project is contrary to the goals and objectives to
82
Board of Trustees 83 April 20, 2005
the new Chapter 97 of the Town code. History and historical
structures will be destroyed. The downtown infrastructure
will be destroyed. It will have a harmful effect on the
environment. The increased parking and traffic will be
inconsistent with the rural existing character. It will be
a destruction of the idyllic character of New Suffolk. Lack
of waste disposal facilities and there's no plan to remedy
the existing toxic conditions that exist on that site. And
foremost is the fact that since the required posting wasn't
done as per Chapter 58, I don't see how the hearing is even
progressing at this point in time.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well, I'll address the posting before I
take any other comments. I honestly didn't see any posting,
but I honestly didn't look for any posting. It could have
been. I don't know if any other Board member looked. We
knew where we were going, we didn't look. So, I don't know
if anybody else.
MR. MCGREEVY: I looked and I couldn't find it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I made no effort.
MR. RAYNOR: The posting was put right at the gate where you
come at the stop sign, while you were up, it's a sailboat,
36 foot Freedom. Then the second time I posted it because
that disappeared was right on the south -- north side of the
south lot where the fencing is, and it's right in the
middle.
MS. MOORE: You swear, in fact, you provided an affidavit
for your file that he posted it. We got a phone call that
it wasn't found or it blew away and he went out and did it
again. We actually posted it twice. We also sent certified
letters as required, and you have a copy of our list of
property owners for certifications. So we posted.
MR. SCHULTHEiS: We just heard evidence that they posted one
sign, it disappeared, they posted another sign. I'm going to
read specifically from Chapter 58, it said, "The applicant
or petitioner is required to erect a sign provided by the
Town which shall be prominently displayed on the premises
facing each public or private street which the property
involved in the application or petition abuts." You've got
Main Street, the lots on either side of that, you've got
First Street, you got the lot on one side of First Street,
you got the lot on the other side of First Street. Clearly
their testimony said they put one sign up. At the minimum
there's got to be four signs posted for that to conform to
the Town code.
MS. MOORE: It's a moot point because anybody that's
objecting to posting that's here waives the objection to
83
Board of Trustees 84 April 20, 2005
posting by their appearance. Secondly, this is going to be
a continued hearing and if you would like us to post it
again before the next hearing, we will make that available,
we'll do that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That was my suggestion. The posting is
almost a moot point because we're going to be back here next
month. We're going to ask the applicant to repost it.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: We have photographs.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: As per Chapter 58 that it be posted
property. It will be for next month.
MS. MOORE: If we could ask the Trustees to do however
number prints we need. We'll put up as many as you like.
We'll plaster the entire property with posters, but they
will complain because we'll be in violation of the sign
ordinance.
MR. SCHULTHEIS: The other issue is the ground up asphalt
that was placed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're going to have it staked for next
month. We're going to look at that issue. That's something
that we didn't see.
MS. MOORE: Keeping in mind it's been an existing shipyard.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Honestly, we didn't scrutinize that
property that much because it wasn't staked.
MS. MOORE: It's a large piece of property, that's fine,
we'll stake it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But I'll take any other comments.
MS. ROBBINS: I'm Carolyn Robbins from New Suffolk. I was
the chairperson of the New Suffolk Stakeholders who reported
recently to the Town, and I would ask you to include in your
considerations of this proposal recommendations of that
hamlet study and include that hamlet study in your
record. I have a copy of the summary which I will bring
up.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MS. ROBBINS: Chief among the stake holders'
recommendations for that property is enforcement of the
local waterfront revitalization program, now Town law.
Among its provisions pertaining to this property is the
following: Redevelopment action in that area should seek to
maintain the marine-related character of the New Suffolk
waterfront and the continuance of water dependent uses, but
on a scale appropriate to the community, which this is not.
And the high degree of environmental sensitivity, not to
mention the unique historic character of the New Suffolk
area in general highlights the need for careful and limited
redevelopment. The plan proposed by Matt-a-Mar on the Bay
84
Board of Trustees 85 April 20, 2005
for boat racks 34 feet high for 153 boats and 195 cars does
not constitute careful and limited redevelopment, and it is
certainly not at a scale appropriate to the
community. Construction would overwhelm the hamlet center,
destroy any semblance of historic ambiance, block our scenic
waterfront views and create hazards for any pedestrians on
the small side or the adjacent street. And the noise of
that forklift running back and forth beep, beep, beep at all
hours and the stench of the fumes from motors and bilges
would render the center of the hamlet offensive to residents
and visitors alike, including patrons of a popular
restaurant and gift shop.
As we have said, there has been no environmental
clean-up of over 115 years of accumulation in the soil and
the bay bottom of hazardous and toxic materials, not just
the 19th but all of the 20th Century. There has to be
clean-up before a spade is turned for any purpose. A
thorough and current environmental study is essential for
any redevelopment plan requiring a positive SEQRA
declaration by the lead agency, whichever that may be.
And for the Board's information, the Planning Board
as of April 8th had 44 letters from New Suffolk residents
opposing the boat rack plan, plus letters from the Civic
Association and from the North Fork Environmental Council,
and I have a copy of that letter. There was no notice
whatsoever on that property and several of us looked
repeatedly, and walked around it. On the 14th, 15th, 16th,
17th, 18th and 19th of April as late as 2:30 in the
afternoon yesterday. At 7:00 a.m. there was a piece of
white paper on the north side of the south property parked
way down where nobody walks. And it may be that we are here
tonight, but not everybody in New Suffolk is here tonight,
and not everybody has the opportunity to know about this
hearing or to make public comment.
In addition, I have a letter from Diane Harkoff, the
co-owner of Legends, she was unable to be here
tonight. Would I be allowed to read it for her?.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's already been in the file.
We've all read it.
MS. ROBBINS: I hope you will particularly note the second
page.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We will review all these letters, believe
me.
MS. ROBBINS: Here's another copy of ours (handing).
MS. MOORE: If we could get a copy of that particular
letter. The Legends, they have been a tenant of ours.
85
Board of Trustees 86 April 20, 2005
MR. JOHNSTON: They will be available tomorrow to FOIA.
MS. MCINTYRE: I'm Pat Mclntyre from New Suffolk.
Personally after being told last Friday that the signs were
not up, I made sure I check. I walk the town all the time
so I didn't do it by car, walked the property line all the
way down to the dead end and back. At Saturday the 16th at
12:15 no signs, Monday the 18th and Monday morning we heard
from Joan Robbins that she called the Trustees office, and
they said that it was being reposted according to what Miss
Moore said. So I made sure that I went down. I work from
home so every couple of hours I took off and went down and
quickly checked. So I checked at 10:00 and at 12:15 and at
4:00 and 6:00 on Monday expecting to'see it up there. I
again checked on Tuesday at 8:00 and 10:30 and 12:00, and
2:00 yesterday. Nothing was up there at 2:00
yesterday. This morning I went at 7:00 a.m. and I did see a
sign, the one sign that was just referred to, which means it
was someplace between 2:00 yesterday afternoon and 8:00 this
morning it went up. And those signs, if you recall, say if
you have an interest in this to please come to Town Hall the
day before the hearing, the records will be available to you
between 8:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. So the maximum opportunity
somebody in New Suffolk had to possibly get to the files was
two hours, that's by what I saw.
I also took some pictures this morning. My camera
does not date these items, but you can see because we have
had such perfect weather, this is the first cloudy day. So
you can see this was this morning. This is a picture that
I'll submit which is on First Street. I stood at the north
end of the property, which is in front of Laura Avin's house
looking along the line so you can see early in the morning
there's no sign posted on that front. That truck was there
so I made sure I took another picture standing in front of
Legends, that's the same truck.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're going to have this posted by next
week.
MS. MCINTYRE: Perhaps I could put this in the file for now?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MS. MCINTYRE: Perhaps if it happened a Monday we reported
it Friday to the Board and it never happened all
weekend. This is across from the post office on the south
side of Main Street, and here I am; this is First Street I'm
on Main standing west of First, nobody goes down it's dead
end, takes the turn. It not even where you might pass it,
it's down below that point. I'm now on the dead end on the
sidewalk looking over, you can see it. I thought it was a
86
Board of Trustees 87 April 20, 2005
piece of paper. I was looking, if I was not seeking this, I
wouldn't have noticed. It looked like a piece of paper
blowing up against the fence. There it is close up, it's
taped to the fence with some tape you might send a package
with. I'd like to put these in the file.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Any other comment?
MR. SAMUELS: Good evening, my name is Tom Samuels.
I live in New Suffolk, thank you guys for being so patient here
tonight, long hearing I know and most of them you're
looking at little residential things and buffers and plants
and how simple those seem compared to the concentration of
this many boats on the site. Although they're high and dry,
they're going to be in the bay and any impact they have is
going to be in the water just the same as if they were
docked in the water. So please, consider that the impact is
just as great as if they were slips in the bay I would say.
I mean there are other impacts too I would say. Very
concentrated contaminants potentially in the site. It's a
very concentrated development on what's a relatively small
site. I don't see any reference to buffers. You were
talking before about buffers as if they're going to make all
the difference in the world and maybe they will, in which
case we should have some pretty significant buffers here.
There is a question about the sanitary facilities, I know
it's not in your jurisdiction to decide whether there should
be any sanitary facilities, but I think you can by common
sense deduct that people getting off a boat after sitting
out in the bay for four or five hours are going to need
sanitary facilities and for them not to be provided on the
site, while it's not potentially presumably in your
jurisdiction, I think by common sense it's clear that
they're needed. And if they're not provided I suppose
people will find the nearest shrub, which won't be in the
buffer which it doesn't exist. But they'll probably go to
the restaurant which has an eight foot ring in the ground
and probably gets pumped out every three or four weeks in
the summer time when the restaurant is open. It seems like
there ought to be a pump-out facility. I don't know what
the rule is on that, I haven't researched it. I guess
that's something you guys know about. It seems to me also
although this is an application for a boat rack facility
that there must be other intentions on the site, after all
the bulkheads are practically nonexistent. It's completely
derelict as far as marine construction is concerned, and so
I think you should assume that you'll see these people back
again really soon. So you might save yourself some time by
87
Board of Trustees 88 April 20, 2005
asking what they actually have in mind for the long term.
Aesthetically speaking, it is in your jurisdiction
to consider that, and I think if you want to know what one 35
foot boat rack system looks like, go to Port of Egypt on
Main Road and you can see it in all of its glory, that is 35
feet. This will be 35 feet. That is enclosed, you may see
that in the future too, a desire to enclose this structure, but
at that point it won't matter because it's already
there. But if you want to see it, that's pretty clear what
it looks like. Aesthetics is in your jurisdiction. Water
quality is in your jurisdiction. The entire site within 100
feet of wetlands is your jurisdiction. Sol hope you'll act
for the best interest of your jurisdiction. Thank you very much.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Anyone else?
MR. BAKER: I'm Jim Baker, New Suffolk, I didn't recall
seeing any plans for a fueling facility associated with
this, is that -- okay. Then I think you need to consider an
impact of an adjacent fueling facility at the New Suffolk
Shipyard and School House Creek of 153 boats, granted not
all at once, but attempting to gain fuel; that will
significantly increase the load, the traffic the disturbance
of School House Creek and so on, as these boats leave the
dock area and go and get fuel. It's a scope issue. I
believe School House Creek should be included in the scope
of the environmental impact of this facility.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thank you. Anybody else? I had a couple
of questions. We do have to coordinate this review with the
Planning Board, presumably with the DEC; would it be better
to set up a joint meeting at least, the very least with the
Planning Board? Because otherwise we're going to say
something then a month later they're going to say something,
and then they're going to say something. It's just going to
go back and forth and then two months later the DEC's --
MS. MOORE: That's not a problem. I like that. That's a very
good idea. Who would you like to coordinate that meeting?
Do you want to do it with the Boards or staff level; how
would you like to do it?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we have to do it with everyone
first, and get all the concerns out there, and at some point
the staff could take over and work out a lot of details. I
think one big meeting would be advantageous first.
MS. MOORE: We'll make ourselves available. We're not
opposed to that, to make the process move more smoothly. At
this point, boat racks, they are what they are; and as I
said, this site has been an aggressively used commercial
site for decades. The condition of the property, the way it
88
Board of Trustees 89 April 20, 2005
is now is because the property isn't generating sufficient
income to reinvest in the site. This will at least enable
the property owner to generate some income so he can
reinvest it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We know it's zoned for marine use, and
it's had historic marine use there. But we have questions,
one of which was just brought up, which we were going to ask
is about the existing marina; what are the intentions there?
When you start putting boats in the water, how are you going
to handle boats going out, somebody forgot their lunch,
they're going to come back in, you're going to have to have
space there.
MS. MOORE: Are you ready to answer that now?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Not now. But these are some of the things
we're concerned about traffic flow in the water, because the
Planning Board is going to ask you traffic flow on the land,
but we're concerned about traffic flow in the water.
MS. MOORE: At the meeting we'll talk about it, we have some
designated spaces for the restaurant, some designated
restaurant separate for rental and those spaces that are
related to this use. So it has been thought out, there is
an effort to coordinate the marina slips that are there and
designate them for --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Or reconfigure them? We don't have a
problem with reconfiguring them there.
MS. MOORE: If you get the DEC on Board with that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's sort of an existing facility. I
don't think they would care if you moved some things
around.
MS. MOORE: If you can persuade them, we'd be willing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There's also a pump-out station?
MR. RAYNOR: There's two pump-out stations, one is in New
Suffolk Shipyard, which is fully capable, and also Cutchogue
Harbor. If it's regarding putting in a pump-out station,
I'd be more than happy to look into it for you. We also
have a pump-out station, which is portable at our
Mattituck facility, which I can bring back and forth without
a problem. It's on a regular skid loaded on the back of a
pick-up truck and shoot it down there to pump everything
out. Regarding the toxins that they're talking about that
are supposedly in the property, I can tell you that a bank
would not give me a loan on that piece of property if there
was toxics in there. Along with having a Phase 2 done on
that property the property is completely clean.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's more Planning Board issue. We're
more concerned about what could be put in there, not about
89
Board of Trustees 90 April 20, 2005
what's there. I suppose it's a concern. I don't know that
anyone's ever mentioned it to us though.
MR. RAYNOR: All we found was oyster shells when we went
down to pull samples.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think it would be better if we set the
next meeting up with the Planning Board, get the DEC out
here kind of make a coordinated effort.
MS. MOORE: Are you going to put this on for the next Board
meeting or do you want to try to do it earlier?. What, a
separate, designated date for a coordinated meeting?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think that's the best way to do it, yes.
MR. POLACHEK: Just a quick comment. My name is Joe
Polachek. I grew up basically from the time I was a year
and-a-half old in New Suffolk. I worked in the New Suffolk
Shipyard, or the North Fork Shipyard prior to their
ownership. My one question again, I don't know if it's in
your purview, would be the hours of operation. I would
assume that high and dry these people would love to have
their boats in the water at 5:00 in the morning if they are
inveterate fishermen, and I sure wouldn't like to hear a
diesel screaming in my backyard taking boats out of a rack
to put them in the water for customers or at 9:00 or 10:00
at night on the reverse trip. And to the toxic issue, I
sincerely hope that the DEC or whatever documentation they
have is totally legitimate, because if it is, they are
extremely lucky. I worked there as a kid. I grew up with
his dad, and ~ dumped plenty of toxic garbage there,
ignorance, typical, take the oil, dump it out in back of the
shed, take the paint solvents dump it, do whatever. If
there's nothing left there so be it, but I'd like to see
proof of that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This process includes, the review process
includes the public, it's not like we meet and make a deal
and go home. I think it would be better than trying to do
it in this kind of forum. We still have quite a bit of
agenda left here.
MS. MOORE: We can talk about the hours of operation when we
meet with the Planning Board, that's more of a site plan
issue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There are a lot of concerns. We're going
to have it posted for next month.
MS. MOORE: Do you want it posted for a next standard
meeting, or do you want to have a separate meeting which I
will post for that particular meeting? Keep in mind I sent
out certified mailings to everyone for this meeting.
MR. JOHNSTON: Al, I find it hard to believe that somebody
90
Board of Trustees 91 April 20, 2005
goes out every 15 minutes to see whether there's a sign up,
and then says they don't know about the hearing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You don't know New Suffolk.
MR. JOHNSTON: I would think somebody knew there was a
hearing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We'll try to work out something.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: You all have to promise not to take the
signs down.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'll be there on the 11th for our field
inspection, May 11th, and we'll try to set up something with
the Planning Board right after that. I'll make a motion to
table the application.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
26. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, on behalf of
MONICA KREISCHER requests a Wetland Permit to
replace/reconstruct the existing timber bulkhead located
within the northern section of the subject property with a
vinyl sheathed bulkhead. Located: 825 Harbor Lights Drive,
Southold. SCTM# 71-2-16.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to comment
on this application?
MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson, Suffolk Environmental
Consulting for the applicant. This is very straightforward.
I want to hand you up a revised plan and also a letter from
the Harbor Lights Property Owners Association. If you look
at the northern return on this it extends onto their
property. They have given us their support on this
application, to let us know that that work can be done
(handing).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Any other comments? All
in-kind/in-place?
MR. ANDERSON: I want to leave the existing thing so it
doesn't collapse into the bay, probably remove the exterior
piles and put it right up against it. It should be with in
12 inches probably more like 6".
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Four probably.
MR. ANDERSON: Yes.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: CAC recommends approval with the
condition of a 50 foot non-turf buffer.
MR. ANDERSON: If you get onto the site, the turf in front
of it is mostly sand and mowed weeds. I don't think there's
need for that.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Looks like all sand.
9l
Board of Trustees 92 April 20, 2005
MR. ANDERSON: It's not like we're going to do anything.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: 20 foot non-turf.
MR. ANDERSON: That's fine, I just don't see the point of it.
Also the top of the bulkhead is hard on the land.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Right. Any other Board comments? If
not, I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve the Wetland
Permit on behalf of MONICA KREISCHER as written with the 20
foot non-turf buffer behind the bulkhead.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
27 Suffolk Environmental Consulting on behalf of SIM
MOY requests a Wetland Permit to construct a single-family
dwelling, attached rear deck, pervious driveway, retaining
wall and sanitary system. Located: 750 West Lake Road,
Southold. SCTM# 90-2-1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in
favor of the application?
MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson, Suffolk Environmental
Consulting for the applicant, Sim Moy. This property is a
small property off the end of a right of way that extends
off West Lake Drive in Cedar Beach. I know you have been to
the site. It's a property that's bulkheaded on two sides,
really almost three sides; that bulkheading was done some
time ago. There's a creek that comes in to the north of the
property, it extends east, and along that small stretch of
creek there's an unbulkheaded section of tidal wetlands
consisting of, the way we flagged it it's mostly phragmite
and grousle bush, and it's very clear where the lawn ends
and the wetlands begins, but there's a right of way that
brings you to the site. This property is a building lot,
it's been held in single and separate ownership and
protected for that purpose. The adjacent property is owned
by Di Moy, Sim Moy is his wife, and the purpose of this
application is they wish to build a small house for their
kids.
The way this was laid out was obviously we are
dealing with a small lot here. So we proposed basically a
1,000 square foot house with a small wraparound deck. The
house would contain three bedrooms and the septic system
that you see to the north of the house is actually the
minimum septic system required possible under the Suffolk
County Sanitary Code. It would be suitably raised above
92
Board of Trustees 93 April 20, 2005
groundwater, and in order to do that there's a need to build
a retaining wall that encircles the septic system, and the
distances between the rings and the house and the rings and
the wall, and the septic system and the house and the septic
system in the walls all meet the code of the Suffolk County
Sanitary Code. We had thought that we should have some sort
of parking area, so the most sensible place to put that was
on the western side of the property. The property benefits
from public water as well.
What I have explained to Mr. Moy is that even though
he has maintained this as a separate building lot since its
inception and that there is an inherent right to build
on this, is that it will be difficult because it will
require multiple variances. We need a permit from this
Board, and we need to get a permit from the DEC. We need to
get a permit from the Health Department, we're going to need
a Zoning Board relief then finally a building permit.
We have made a design choice to put the septic
system where it is. Generally speaking when you're on the
southern edges, southern portion of the town your
groundwater flow is expected to flow toward the south to the
bay. The divide has been generally shown to be at the North
Road. So we felt that the septic system should go on the
north side of the house. We also feel that it can go there
because that's where it's readily accessible in the event it
has to be serviced.
The relief sought here is basically based on the size of the
lot, and it's true for every other agency. So, for example, we would
need the Zoning variance because it would be impossible to be
75 feet back from the bulkhead. We would need a variance from the
Health Department because it would be impossible to site a
septic system more than 100 feet from surface waters. We
would need a variance from the DEC because it would be
impossible to locate either a house in a conforming location
or a septic system in a conforming location.
It is true that the bulkheads themselves were built
prior to 1977. They have been there for quite a long time
and that possibly the DEC may require them to put them
somewhere else on the lot, but we think on balance, given
constraints of this lot, this is the way it should be
designed and laid out. As you know the entire, the four
corners of the lots consist of tuff grass. We've tried to
line up the house with the adjacent house of Di Moy,
obviously it's significantly smaller because the property's
smaller. But those are the problems we've had. That's kind
of thought process that went into this, and I think given
93
Board of Trustees 94 April 20, 2005
the constraints, I don't know what but I'm certainly open to
any suggestions you may have. I don't know if there's a
better way to lay it out.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comment? Just for the
record, this is one of the worst building lots I've ever
seen applied for. Although I have to compliment Mr.
Anderson because you made it seem like this is the best, so
I got to give it to you.
MR. ANDERSON: I have what I have.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We're looking at a house 30 feet from the
creek. We're looking at a driveway five feet from the
creek. We're looking at a septic system 42 feet from the
intertidal wetlands. For the record, this is really
problematic. Just for clarification on the survey that was
submitted it says Lot 118 now or formerly Saint John's
Episcopal Church --
MR. ANDERSON: I don't understand that. That's the house of
Di Moy, who is the husband.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's what we thought. And there is an
issue there also for that house because they should have a
15 foot buffer on their bulkhead reconstruction, which --
MR. ANDERSON: Heather told me about that, that's separate,
and if that's the way it's supposed to be, that's the way
it's supposed to be.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's the way it's supposed to be. We
need that immediately.
MR. ANDERSON: Was there a planting scheme? Was it just
don't mow it? I just heard about it yesterday.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's a non-turf buffer, just kind of let
the turf --
MR. ANDERSON: I can certainly advise them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's got to be done.
MR. ANDERSON: The idea don't mow within 15 feet; is that
what you're saying?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. It's non-turf. It should be gravel.
Most people put gravel in along the bay instead of planting
the grass seed in after bulkhead reconstruction.
MR. ANDERSON: I had nothing to do with the bulkhead.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I understand that. It's just when we go
on the site we think, hey we just gave them a permit.
MR. ANDERSON: When was the bulkhead done?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 2003. Back to the little lot here. I'm
going to invoke the new code here, and I don't see how you
can make the septic system not completely impact the creek
when really it's one wall, the wall itself --
MR. ANDERSON: The wall is not a frill of any sort.
94
Board of Trustees 95 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's less than 20 feet from the
bulkhead.
MR. ANDERSON: The idea of the, we're talking about this
wall, what it is is a poured concrete, waterproof,
weatherproof system to prevent the lateral leaching of the
septic system.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I understand that point, but my point is
that, and I'm referring to the plan and Mr. Foster maybe
could help me out here, that the leachate goes into the
cesspool part, then it goes down into the groundwater, then
it moves out 20 feet into the creek water, that's like
gravity. So that's my problem is that we're really looking
at - I think it's going to be under the new code up to
Mr. Moy to prove that somehow this is not going to happen.
MR. ANDERSON. That's what's not going to happen? It's not
going to leach? Of course it's going to leach.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That it will leach into the creek.
MR. ANDERSON: What I said is if you look at the Suffolk
County topograph maps, they're going to show moving towards
the bay. But the other point is wherever you put this
septic system, I don't care if you put it under the house,
you're not going to be 100 feet from any surface water.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We understand that.
MR. ANDERSON: All we have to do is swing an arc in any
fashion whatsoever --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We understand that.
MR. ANDERSON: -- there's no place - and we think it's laid
out in the best place it should be laid out.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: When I saw this application I said there
can't be because there's a house there already, not knowing.
MR. ANDERSON: This is an individual building.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I didn't realize that because we had been
out there numerous times. So unless anybody sees anything
differently, it's going to be to up to Mr. Moy to somehow
prove that the septic system isn't going to leach out.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I agree.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I agree with you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's 20 feet from the canal. How is it
not going to go down to the groundwater.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'd like to see him provide a large
engineering plan of this system. It doesn't mean I'll agree
with it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The burden's on the applicant.
MR. ANDERSON: At the end of the day we're looking at a
house or no house I suspect.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Right. If he wants to go through the
95
Board of Trustees 96 April 20, 2005
motion, let's see if he can --
MR. ANDERSON: But we have a building lot.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Regardless. An environmentally sensitive
and engineered plan for a septic system, I'd like to see
that.
MR. ANDERSON: We'll be happy to give you a technical
report, and we can engineer it any way you would like to,
but it's not likely to change my testimony.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: That's what I'd like, I would like to see
an engineer stamped.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: A hydrology report.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Showing groundwater flow
there.
MR. ANDERSON: But my point is this, if I were to take that
septic system and put it on the other side of the building,
how would that change?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It wouldn't. I think what we're saying is
it seems to be Mr. Moy's problem, not the Town's problem.
MR. ANDERSON: To what?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: To locate the septic system where it's not
going to impact surface waters.
MR. ANDERSON: We'll be happy to give you a report.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And we're going to send Mr. Moy a letter
about the contour buffer.
MR. ANDERSON: That's fine. If he's not in compliance, he's
not in compliance.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to table. I'm sorry, I
didn't read the CAC comments.
MR. MCGREEVY: CAC goes along with your suggestion.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh They recommend disapproval.
MR. MCGREEVY: Disapprove and also I think there's something
in the works about dredging that canal, which might have an
affect on the hydraulic.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's possible, thank you. I make a motion
to table the application.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor? ALL AYES.
28. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on
behalf of MICHAEL ZEVITZ requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a single-family dwelling, attached rear
porch/deck, fencing, driveway, and sanitary
system. Located: 1450 West Lane, Southold.
SCTM#88-6-18.5
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to
speak in favor of the application?
96
Board of Trustees 97 April 20, 2005
MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson, Suffolk Environmental
Consulting for the applicant. We're trying to build a 1,260
foot square foot house with a 576 square foot deck, setback
90 feet from the wetlands. There would be a fence that runs
along Little Peconic Bay Road. It's a four bedroom house.
It is very similar, although somewhat further back from what
was in this case was the wetlands boundaries than the
neighboring lot that was owned by brother Joseph, which was
Board approved. I was informed the other day that they will
be seeking to extend the deck an additional four feet,
perhaps the better way to do that is to handle that by
amendment. They have discovered that the eight foot width
on the deck is insufficient, they would like to make that
12, reduce the setback from 90 to 86 but still be further
back than what the neighboring house or permitted by this
Board and every other Board was granted. Other than that,
it's a very straightforward application.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comments?
MS. TETRAULT: Where is the fence?
MR. ANDERSON: The fence runs along Little Peconic Bay Road.
If you look at this, it would connect up to a bulkhead
there, and the idea here is you'll see a 50 foot right of
way, and the idea is enter the property from the west and
not connect to Peconic Bay Road. We'll have to go to the
Zoning Board because it's an additional front yard, because
it's set back 11 feet, but the entire development access
from the west.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Really. Because it shows you're set back
a foot here.
MR. ANDERSON: What are you talking about?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: From the right of way.
MR. ANDERSON: Eleven feet from the property line. There's
two right of ways. There's a 50 foot right of way to the
north of it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's the one we accessed the property
on.
MR. ANDERSON: Right. Then there's a 10 foot right of way
that runs along that eastern property line.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Why is there a right of way adjacent to a
road ending?
MR. ANDERSON: I think to allow access from the lot behind
it which is owned by Michael's sister.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Why not use the road ending adjacent to
it?
MR. ANDERSON: The right of way isn't proposed. It's there
as a matter of deed.
97
Board of Trustees 98 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's why I didn't understand, you've got
a right of way and a road ending. They're both access. You
know what I'm saying?
MR. ANDERSON: That's correct.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Why?
MR. ANDERSON: I think it was done for the benefit of this
lot (indicating).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Where is the fence proposed?
MR. ANDERSON: Here. (Discussion.)
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh If there's no other comment, I'll make a
motion to close the hearing.
MR. ANDERSON: Can we do it with the expectation that he
wants to get an extra four feet on that porch?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's not a problem for me. Give us the
drainage too, the dry wells.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I made the motion.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'll make a motion to approve the
application for the house with an additional four feet on
the porch and gutters and dry wells for drainage. Now, on
your plan it shows 50 feet from the bulkhead; what does that
mean? It's not labeled. Is that a 50 foot non-tuff buffer?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
MR. ANDERSON: I don't remember. But I can tell you this,
whatever it is it should line up with what we did with the
adjacent property, so let me get back to you on that.
MS. TETRAULT: When we were there you said you wanted a
buffer.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we'll make a resolution it should
match.
MR. ANDERSON: Yes. If you go down there there's sort of
like a beach grass. I don't know if it was 50 feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We measured that. It's got to be at least
25 feet, the buffer has to be at least 25 feet. I'll put it
into the record.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's the motion.
MR. MCGREEVY: Just a recommendation on the CAC part, that
lot had quite a few trees on it and one of the
recommendations we would like to make is preserve as many
trees as possible outside of the footprint naturally, if
that would be possible.
MR. ANDERSON: Cer[ainly along the property line.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Most of those trees are going to be
non-jurisdictional for us too.
MR. ANDERSON: We may have a problem with the Zoning Board
98
Board of Trustees 99 April 20, 2005
because we're going to ask them to treat Little Peconic Bay
Road as a side yard. So I may come back to you because I
may have to pull it back. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor? ALL AYES.
29. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on
behalf of ENZO MORABITO requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a single-family dwelling, attached rear deck,
pervious driveway, sanitary system and private well.
Located: 895 Glen Court, Cutchogue. SCTM#83-1-9
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to
speak in favor of this application?
MR. ANDERSON: This is kind of a curious one for me. You
have a problem with the code when it concerns bluffs because
if you read it carefully it's not properly set up, and it
may be that we don't even need to be here, but we are here
nevertheless.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'm recusing.
MR. ANDERSON: I take it you've been out to the site and
what you would have seen a variety of decks, there's a
gazebo, a shed already on the property, and that is built
right up to the edge of the bluff. All that would be
removed and instead a house will be built, it would be
relocated both landward of the coastal erosion hazard line
and landward of the top of the bluff than what you have
today. So it's a case where you really are retreating back.
So we think it's a pretty good application from that
standpoint. But we're well in excess of the setbacks from
the Sound and also landward of the coastal erosion hazard
line, although we have to do work within that line to at
least remove what's there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Then there's an issue with replanting.
MR. ANDERSON: I don't think we have an issue with it, but
it should be revegetated, I would agree with you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh CAC recommend disapproval, but really you
can see they're backing all that structure up. But our
concern is once you take that gazebo and decking system out,
you're going to have bare earth, so they need to show us a
replanting plan, make sure it doesn't wash away.
MR. MCGREEVY: We would recommend that.
MR. ANDERSON: I would be happy. In fact, my suggestion is.
you can close it pending the receipt of that plan, and we'll
give you a native shrub type.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Non-turf type of system there.
MR. ANDERSON: Because it will be bare earth.
TRUSTEE KING: Can the house get closer to the read, just
99
Board of Trustees 100 April 20, 2005
back it up a little bit?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's possible.
MR. ANDERSON: No. It's 50 feet from the road now.
TRUSTEE KING: What's the zoning law?
MR. ANDERSON: Fifty feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What are the other houses?
MR. ANDERSON: About 50 feet.
MS. TETRAULT: The zoning from the bluff is 100 feet.
MR. ANDERSON: This is the thing, I thought, and I had met
with Damon, and he agreed because it would be building
behind a building that would be relieved from that, then we
discovered it's a building behind a principal building. Now
I'm told I have to go to the Zoning Board.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Otherwise people would put in a 10 by 10
shed without a permit and then build whatever they wanted
behind it.
MR. ANDERSON: If they got your approval, otherwise they
would be in violation. I will give that plan, and I'm
saying now, it could be that the Zoning Board says look,
we'd like you to reduce it to 40 and slide the thing back,
but I don't want to create more variances than I need, it's
not good zoning practice. The idea is to minimize the
zoning.
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI: I make a motion to close the hearing.
FOSTER: Second.
KRUPSKI: All in favor?
FOSTER: Aye.
KING: Aye.
DICKERSON: Aye.
POLIWODA: Recused.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make a motion to approve the application
with installation of dry wells and gutters and replanting
plan from contours 66 to the top of the bluff to the coastal
erosion hazard line and non-turf vegetation.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Aye.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Aye.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Recused.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: First put in motion to go off the
regular meeting.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor?. ALL AYES.
VIII. RESOLUTIONS -- OTHER:
100
Board of Trustees 101 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh On this date, April 20th, resolve that the
Board of Trustees deny without prejudice the application of
Gregory Mazzanobile to Amendment to Permit #5631 to
eliminate the swimming pool and move the proposed sanitary
system, leaching pools three feet further from the wetlands
line.
The Trustees hereby revoke Permit #5631 for the
house, decks, swimming pool and septic system that was
issued on September 25, 2002 because the new information the
Board has showing that the sanitary system in the house will
impact the Cranberry Bog and surrounding habitat.
Also according to Section 97-27 A7 of the Town Code
of the Town of Southold, the Board of Trustees are
protecting a critically environmental area as defined in
Section 97-11.
The facts and the understanding of how the project
will affect the area as a whole were very important in the
decision to present this resolution. The Board has
discussed other alternatives to the site. We have visited
the site numerous times, alternatives as far as this
application goes and as far as the previously approved
permit goes, as far as location or size of the house and
what not. So we have looked at alternatives; however, the
Board felt for this project it was best to revoke the permit
because of all the new information that came in after the
Permit 5631 had been issued.
This motion is made to deny without prejudice, which
means that the applicant could resubmit for the same or a
different proposal for this location at any time, and it
would be reviewed from the beginning, and with all the
information that had come in included in that review.
So that is my resolution; is there a Second?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? Where's Artie?
MR. JOHNSTON: Call for the vote again.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay. I made the resolution to deny
without prejudice the amendment and to revoke the Permit
5631, and Peggy seconded it; how do you vote?
MR. JOHNSTON: Can we do a roll call vote?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Okay. Trustee Poliwoda?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Aye.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Trustee Dickerson?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Aye.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Trustee King?
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Trustee Foster?
lOl
Board of Trustees 102 April 20, 2005
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Aye.
MR. JOHNSTON: Trustee Krupski?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Aye.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'll make a resolution to appoint Frank
Thorp III as a member of the Shellfish Advisory Committee,
for a term of one year, term to expire on December 31, 2005.
Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor?. ALL AYES.
102