HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-04/10/1997 HEARING II TPJ~NSCRIPT OF pnBLIC HEARINGS
APRIL 10, 1997
SOnTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
(Prepared by Lucy Farrell Srom tape recordings)
6:4% p.m. Appl. No. 4464 - TOMIS AND KATHY KOnRKOnMELIS.
CHAIP~AN GOEHRINGER: Copy oS a pending plan indicating the proposed
pool approximately rive Seet Srom the existing house, 34 Seet Srom the
bulkhead which is the outside end oS it and which leaves another 3% Seet
to the hi,Nh water mark. I have a oS the SuSSolk County Tall }{ap
indicating this and the surrounding properties in the area. }ir.
Cardinale, I understand you're representing these nice people.
MR. CARDINALE: That right.
CHAIP~AN: How are you tonight Sir?
MR. CARDINALE: Good. I'd like to initially just send up the
assidavits oS mailing and postinG. I also like to introduce Mr. & }{rs.
Kourkoumelis who are here and also Mr. Wysoczanski oS Islandia Pools, the
contractor in case you have any questions. As I indicated in the
application there are two ways oS addressing this. One is because it's
so unique is you've seen the site and so unlike sound Sront property I
looked at the section that the Building Inspector addressed in his Notice
oS Disapproval and the section where he says and I quote on the sirst
pa,Ne oS the application "Ail buildings located on Lots adjacent to
sounds upon which there exists a blurs or bank landward oS the shore or
beach shall be set }Jack not Sewer than 100 Seet". Whether there exists a
blurs or bank landward oS the shore or beach areas itselS a question
because is you look at the site there's a triple bulkhead in place since
19%4 which is only in Sull height 11 Seet Srom the beach to where the
location oS this pool is Going to be. In Sact, eSSectively there is no
blurs at this particular location oS the sound. However, assuming that
you would preset to making jurisdiction regardless oS the height oS the
blurs on the sound I address the issue oS benesit detriment as well on
the application and probably the quickest way to ,Net into it and to any
questions you might have Sot myselS or the contractor or }ir.
Kourkoumelis, just to reset to that application. The lot is a pre-
existing non-conSorminG lot as you can see Srom the survey and the
sketch. Permanent application was made Sot a 16 x 36 in Ground pool
overlooking the sound. The 100 Soot setback requirement is not possible
to meet. By placing the pool by % Seet Srom the house and limiting its
size to 16 x 36 a 34 Soot setback Srom a bulkhead SrontaGe can be
achieved. There's no other practical location available due to the Sact
that the lot has a unique consiGuration. Its width as you will note is
63 Seet to 7% Seet in width. The Greater width being in the Sront on the
road and; (E) the presence oS cesspools, well, driveway and large trees
and open exposure to the highway south oS the house. The applicant
thereSore has done everything possible to limit the variance requested in
this instance to the minimal amount he needs. The lot as I said is pre-
existing and unusually narrow. There's a very low blurs line protected
Pa,Ne E - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board or Appeals
by heavy duty bulkhead in place, undisturbed since 19%4. He requested a
pool or not having an inverse impact upon the physical or environmental
conditions in the neighborhood and I want to emphasize this and that's
why }ir. Kourkoumelis wanted to be here and }irs. Kourkoumelis and their
children as well. This idea or a pool is intimately connected with the
tact that at this location, in tact, right on that road in 199E, }{rs.
Kourkoumelis had a very serious accident, severely injured her }Jack. She
has a herniated disk as evidenced by the material you have from the
doctor. As a result or that hydro-therapy, swir[s[~inG is r ecor[s[~ended.
That will alleviate the pain and is r ecor[s[~ended. However, she has
difficulty ,Netting down, not so much ,Netting down the steps as once she's
down there the rocky beach, etc., makes the sound not adequate rot the
purpose or her hydro-therapy. So that is a unique circumstances I'd like
you to consider. Finally, I want to point out that there will be no
undesirable change produced in the character or the neighborhood, nor any
detriment to nearby property owners. Many or the lots are pre-existinG
and undersized as you know with construction within this 100 root setback
area and some have required similar relier and there's also apparently no
objection from neighbors. He's discussed this with his neighbors and
they have no objection. This is all I really wanted to say and ir you
have questions or me or Mr. Kourkoumelis or John, he~s here.
CHAIP~AN: We would like to speak to the pool contractor ir we could. How
are you tonight Sir? Could you just state your name rot the record.
MR. WYSOCZANSKI: John Wysoczanski from Islandia Pools.
CHAIP~AN: Is there Going to be any deck around this pool?
MR. WYSOCZANSKI: As rat as we know we're just Going to basically put
Grass around everything and just a copinG, that's it.
CHAIP~AN: Is this a Gunite pool, or is it a ?
}iR. WYSOCZANSKI: No, it's a vinyl pool.
CHAIP~AN: How many Gallons or water would you estimate being used?
}iR. WYSOCZANSKI: That one probably would be about
CHAIP~AN: In all situations regardless ir we have a higher erosion area
or a lesser impacted higher erosion area as we have here, by virtue or
what exists and what has existed is Mr. Cardinale said since 19%4. No
way can a pool ever be hinged or attached to the house, either thru a
decking system. They just have to stand freely in case we ever had a
situation where the coastal erosion line moved closer to the house and
then rot some ,Nod forsaking reason the pool was taken by the sound, which
we never want to see happen, but just want you to be aware or that. I
don't have any specific questions other than that. We'll star with Mr.
Dinizio.
MEMBER DINIZIO: How deep is the pool Going to be?
MR. WYSOCZANSKI: It's Going to be 8 root.
Pa,Ne 3 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board of Appeals
MR. DINIZIO: The house is how old? 19%47
}iR. WYSOCZANSKI: 4% years.
MR. DINIZIO: That's all I have.
CHAIP~AN: }irs. Ostermann?
MEMBER OSTEP~ANN: No, no question.
CHAIP~AN: }{rs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Are you planning to put a fence around the pool?
MR. WYSOCZANSKI: Yes, the pool would be fenced in. Well, the property,
you've ,Not to fence the property, the }Jack around the side.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: When I visited the site there's a big rock. Is it a
Ground pool?
MR. WYSOCZANSKI: We discussed that already. The rock is Going out the
opposite way towards the house. Mr. Kourkoumelis said they had that put
there and with the % foot away we may ,Net passed that rock.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: The other thing I had to do with the prior appeal on this
application. I don't know whether it ever occurred or not in 1993. Are
you aware of that Mr. Cardinale?
MR. CARDINALE: I was not.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Was to construct an open deck spa addition.
CHAIP~AN: I think that's next door.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, that's a couple of houses down.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: That's open. I just wondered if it changed names or
what. The only other thing I wanted to know is the measurements to the
bulkhead. It's kind of deceptive unless you actually visit the site and
look at it. Measurements to the bulkhead is 3% or 34 feet to the outer
edge of the
CHAIP~AN: The first bulkhead.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: No, the third.
CHAIP~AN: Well, I'm referring from the beach, is the first, you can
refer to either.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: And the bulkhead width is a total of, is it 1E feet? Is
that right?
CHAIP~AN: You're talking about the width in between the bulkheads?
Pa,Ne 4 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
MEMBER TOROTPJ~: Yes.
CHAIP~AN: % -1/E and 6 -1/E.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: It's 1E Seet right?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Yes, that's what I saw.
CHAI P~AN: An!~[~or e questions?
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: No.
CHAIP~AN: }ir. Doyen?
MEMBER DOYEN: NO.
CHAI P~AN:
there?
There isn't any intention oS every enclosing this pool, is
}iR. CARDINALE: No.
CHAIP~AN: I don't have any Surther questions. We thank you very much,
we'll see what develops throughout the hearinG. I don't know is we'll
,Net to this tonight or not. We're not Going to make a decision on the
Sloor, at the Greatest amount it will be made on the E4th is it's not
made tonight, April E4th. Is there anybody else who would like to
speak in Savor oS this application? Anybody like to speak against the
application? We thank you very much Sot coming in, we wish you a sase
trip }Jack to your homes. I ' 11 make a motion closing the hearinG,
reserving decision until later.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Second
CHAIP~AN: All in Savor:
MEMBERS: AYE.
6:%% P.M. - Appl. No. 4463 - L. SnTER d/b/a BLnEWATER SEAFOOD
}iR. CHAI P~AN: Relies based upon the January 6, 1997 Action oS
Disapproval by the Building Inspector. I have a copy oS a site plan dated
4/8/97 and a copy oS the SuSSolk County Tall }dap indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. How are you tonight Sir? Would you
}iR. EHLERS: Richard A. Ehlers, 4%6 GrissinG Avenue, Riverhead, N.Y. Sot
}ir. Suter, Bluewater SeaSood. I have my assidavit s oS posting
publication. That's single service. I just want to clear that up. That
causes a lot oS conSusion. }ir. Suter has a permit Sot 60 seats, nnder
the Health Department Guidelines he can't wash the dishes Sot those
seats, so it's one service Srom each utensil, basically paper or plastic
plates and Sorks and knives. So, the prime water Slows meet with their
Pa,Ne % - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
requirements so they don't overburden the Ground water.
CHAIP~AN: So, that's how you ,Net that phase? SinGle service?
MR. EHLERS: It's single service, that's what we applied Sot. In the
history oS the application Mr. Suter opened in 1981 with his sish market
at that location and obtained a site plan approval. I'll make reSerence
several times this evening to April 10th correspondence Srom the ~lanninG
Board to this Board, where their unaware that they previously in 1981
approved his parking along the Sront oS this parcel and the site plan
showed that. He operated the sea rood business Sot sometime as is cot[simon
with many other sea rood businesses in the township, more particularly
would be a Good example, the cooking oS sea rood and the preparation oS
chowders and oyster pies and similarly to a take-out tpe oS business as
ancillary or accessory to the primary seaSood use and as that use Grew
Mr. Suter over the years installed some tents. In 1988 those tents were
the subject oS request by the Building Department or I should say the
Fire Marshal who were certisications Srom the contractor who put the
tents up, The Mills Company, Jamie Mills in particular and he satissied
the Fire Inspectors and we have a letter Srom them oS AuGust 3, 1988 that
the tents are in order and there is no sire violations Srom your
existence.
MR. CHAIP~AN: Is this retardant material we're reSettinG to?
MR. EHLERS: Correct. The tents are not Slat[sizable and they had to be a
certain certisication which the tent manuSacturer supplied. Mr. Suter
has maintained throughout that the tents be removable completely. IS you
Go passed there now you'll see roughly sill stations in the area, the side
yard variance which is, the sirst variance that we're seeking which is
Sot 3-1/E instead oS the required 10 Seet where this tent is during the
season. I think the season can be Generally stated as June, July,
vicissitude oS lire on the North Fork, certainly causing to close earlier
than you might want to. So, the sirst variance Sot that side yard, this
structure is removed annually Sot the period oS time that I mentioned.
Building Department, and in the interest oS some sought oS compromise
with them, we agreed that we would accept Sot their desinition that
there's a structure sussicient enough to require a variance Sot the side
yard, even thou,Nh it is removed. IS you look at Mr. Suter's lot it's a
narrow, longer lot, the original house was owned by Mr. Newell. Mr.
Suter bought the house Srom Mr. Newell, renovated it to the sish market
so the location oS the existing house in the natural progression out
toward the western boundary oS these tents is what causes Mr. Suter to be
in that side yard. The second issue Sot your consideration and perhaps
the one that seems to spark a lot oS interest among the Planning Board,
not your Board, but the Planning Board is the ors-site parkinG. Chapter
100-191 Subdivision I, provides that where a lot is divided by district
boundaries which is the case oS Mr. BaGshaw's property, that's the old
movie theater, and we talked about this the last time, and that was a
parking lot. That parking lot section in }Jack oS the movie theater is in
the residence zone and what we propose is to provide Sot the use oS what
they call compatible parkinG, or I should say cor[~Jined spaces. On the
Pa,Ne 6 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
theory that Mr. Suter ' s restaurant is a nighttime activity and the
adjacent boat yard or other retail sales would be daytime activity and so
duplicative parking is not required or necessary and thereSore we're
asking your Board to utilize Subdivision G, Cor[~Jined Spaces, as well as
the Capital I, which permits your Board, where a Residence District is on
the premises split. I should say split up or with the approval oS the
Board oS Appeals, parking can be installed in that area. So, as we add
it to the spaces that were previously approved Sot the boat sales which I
believe were 1E in the }Jack, one handicap in Sront. We brought E0 spaces
down Sot an increase in 8 which encroaches into that residence area Sot
which we need your approval. We posted }ir. Suter's property, we sent
mailings to all the enjoining property owners at the suGGestion oS your
clerk, quite properly to the enjoined property owner, }ir. BaGshaw as
well, since it would be on his property the variance would be Granted.
The correspondence Srom the Planning Board, I have pointed out that there
is a valid site plan Sot Mr. Suter's lot, parking spaces that are shown
on the Sront oS his parcel. What' s particularly troubling is what
appears to be a threat to your Board and I hope that it's not interpreted
as such by you, but the Planning Board states that is your Board Grants
this variance they're Going to revoke the approvals that you ,Nave to Mr.
BaGshaw at your last meeting and Sot the lire oS me I can't understand
how one board would write to another board and say within your statutory
authority to Grant relies Srom the Zoning Board Ordinance and other legal
requirements, that is you do that they're Going to take retribution out
on someone whose ,Not an approved plan. So, I hope that isn't what
they're saying and I hope it doesn't cloud your decision, but we're
certainly prepared to meet and deal with them as necessary.
CHAIP~AN: That may be a Sactor that we may want to do or deal with
beSore we conclude this portion oS the hearinG. We'll talk about that
thou,Nh, you continue is you want.
MR. EHLERS: At one point in the history oS this project there was
concern Srom the Planning Board whether or not Mr. Suter had valid Health
Department approval, the Board oS Review has Given him the 60 seats, he
installed the septic system that was required oS that and he has now Sull
approval Sot those 60 seats, so that's no longer an issue. We have
supplied you with a letter Srom the attorneys Sot }ir. BaGshaw indicating
that we have his approval to make this application and Mr. Bressler and
}ir. BaGshaw are present tonight is you have any questions oS them. }ir.
Suter is here, his most recent accomplishment was coaching one oS the
Ol!~[~pic sailors. He' s up Srom Florida, specisically Sot this
application. I mention that to indicate to you how important this is to
him. He has a tenant Sot the property to utilize it this su~[~[~er so he
can continue with the sailing instruction and obviously is the tenant
Seels that parking is not Going to be available, the tenant is not Going
to exercise the right to use the property and it will be another closed
business. }ir. Suter told me that over the su~[~[~er we ' 11 employ
approximate %0 part-time people and I said to him "Larry, that sounds
like a large nur[~Jer. It doesn't look like such a big store." But, when
he, explained to me, that many oS these people are college students that
work Sot 1E - 1R hours to earn pocket money over the sur[s[[ertime you can
see how a 7 day week operation would Generate a lot oS disserent
employees. So there are many people in the cor[s[~unity that both enjoy
Pa,Ne 7 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
the rood that is served there as well as the employees. I think the use
is very compatible, both the east end, boats, Sish, seaSood, eating
outside, I thought that was what the area was suppose to be about. Not
pavinG, curbinG, drainage, and other structures. I can imagine well that
I will Go eat some seaSood at Larrys at night, walk around and buy a boat
Srom Red. That's just the natural thing people like to do in the
eveninG. As a }Joy, we use to walk the docks at Claudio's and drool over
the boats they had. We seem to have lost that and we lost some sense oS
understanding that businesses that are adjacent to each other can be
compatible and each one doesn't have to stand on its own like a kingdom
on to itselS. That they can all be integrated. Will people park under
and around and near the boats? Sure, will we have insurance in case a
boat, you know in case some accident occurs? ~Jsolutely, accidents are
always possible, but that's why you have insurance and it's part oS the
enjo!~[~ent that you ,Net Srom having the opportunity to eat and view the
boats at the same time. I'd be happy to have Mr. Suter answer any
qusetions.
CHAIP~AN: Well, lets jump right into it on the issue oS this letter that
we received Srom the Planning Board and see where we're Going to Go on
this. What is your ir[s[~ediate response? I know your ir[s[~ediate response,
but, what action on you Going to take based upon this letter?
}iR. EHLERS: Well, assuming that you agree with me that a variance under
Section I and ,3 is appropriate and that the compatible parking as shown
on the plan we submitted meets the parking requirements Srom }ir. Suter
and are adequate Sot }ir. BaGshaw, because that's the two phases oS that
and you Surther agree that under Section I, that the residence parkinG,
that you Grant permission to park and encroach in that residence area, I
think at that point the Planning Board has no Surther say about the
legitimacy oS that parking arrangement and we did not upset }ir. HuGhes.
We did not upset what has been already approved Sot }ir. HuGhes. }ir.
HuGhes has parking shown in the business section, we've just extended it
slightly down into the residence section. So, we've not disrupted his
plan at all. In Sact, is anythinG, it's improved because it clearly
designates the E4 Seet oS travel width, necessary Sot cars to ,Net around
to the }Jack which the plan that the Planning Board hoisted which didn't
even show how you would ,Net to those parking spaces. So, is anythinG,
it's an improvement so I don't see why he should be penalized. Suter
then has adequate parkinG, so parking is no longer a reason not to issue
the building permit and Srom our stand point he's entitled to a building
permit at that point.
CHAIP~AN: I don't know is we exactly see it that way, but, I did call
the Chairman oS the Planning Board today and I asked him exactly what
caused him to write this letter or his ossice to write the letter. He
said, that upon physical inspection that he was unhappy with the width oS
the road Going in to the rear yard area which is basically the nature oS
what we're discussinG. I don't think we talked about much else
concerninG. I personally think it can be easily rectiSied, in my opinion
and we do have an advantage although there is a substantial amount oS
complexity to the April E4th hearing because it is the wrap-up oS the
NYNEX Tower in Orient but, is we are not in agreement Sot wrapping it up
tonight, I would hope that we could wrap it up on the E4th because I have
sielded a substantial amount oS calls to my house concerning these
Pa,Ne 8 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
applications along with a call Srom the tenant. I assured him I thought
we could work this out and based upon our conversation at the last
hearing we discussed with Mr. BaGshaw with his attorney, we discussed
with you and said that certainly we would entertain this Section 191, at
which we're doing right now. However, there is this concern with the
Planning Board. I'm asking you in all sairness to try and work it out
with them is you can and whatever is Going to make that palatable to
them. I don't want them to withdraw, or basically deal with a site plan
aspect Sot Michael HuGhes at the same time thereby holding that business
in abeyance even though we've Given him the permit and the same situation
having the problem with }ir. Suter's property openinG. I think their
tar,Net date is }{ay 1st according to the tenant. I mean they may not open
}{ay 1st but they'll be down there workinG.
MR. EHLERS: Getting all your supplies and material.
CHAIrmAN: RiGht. So, that's the }Jest I can do there. Now, on the
aspect oS the sish market itselS, are the total areas within that tent
area? Does that cor[~lies the entire 60 seats, or are there seats
additional to that, Larry?
MR. SnTER: I thought we countered them. I think there's about 8 tables
outside the tent area.
CHAIP~AN: Does that increase the seating about 60 then, or was does that
do?
MR. SnTER: No, no, the total is 60.
CHAIP~AN: The total is 60. So, what's inside the tent area and what's
outside the tent area. So, is it was raining out that would be the only
time that the 60 seats, I mean then oS course you didn't have Sull
occupancy.
MR. SnTER: You probably couldn't ,Net all 60 inside, so you would lose
some seats.
CHAIP~AN: I have to be honest with you. OS all the years that you have
been there you operated and its always been takeout Sot me I have never
sat in the tented area. As you know, we had a minor little sire there
last year and the Fire Department was down there. I did visualize the
whole thing when it was totally operatinG, and I did notice the outside
area, that's the purpose oS my question. Will start with this side. }ir.
Doyen, any questions?
MEMBER DOYEN: No.
CHAIrmAN: }{rs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTOP~: You talked about seating at night. You're not open
during the day?
MR. SnTER: There's the sish market that's open all day, during the
daytime and there's very minimal lunch. There's really no white collar
Pa,Ne 9 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
This is in Mattituck, so there's a minimal lunch business.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: About how many people do you serve Sot lunch?
}iR. SnTER: I would say the maximum ever is E0 - E% lunches and that's
over Srom 1E to %, over a % hour period. Basically the store is open and
you're cooking soups and stuSS and you're preparing Sot dinner and
someone comes in Sot lunch take-out or lunch. It's like a sish and chip.
Last year I ran, I closed Sot lunch, because it just really wasn't
sinancially Seasible.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: On the plan that you have just submitted, you're
including a total oS how many parking spaces?
MR. SnTER: I believe the total is 30 between the two places. I have 8
that was approved in 1981, EE on the BaGshaw side.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: There were 8 approved on the Blue Water site.
}iR. SnTER: That's correct.
MEMBER TORTOP~: 8 approved on that and how many then are you proposing
on, it looks like -
CHAIP~AN: I just counted 13, one side, so that's E6.
MR. SnTER: E4 and E handicapped.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: E4 plus E handicapped.
MR. EHLERS: That nur[~Jer is designed to meet the requirements oS all Mr.
BaGshaw's properties. We believe this plan permits the Suture use oS the
auto parts/movie theater buildinG, which the previous plan did not show
any parkinG. IS you approve this, I don't think there'll be any need Sot
Mr. BaGshaw to come }Jack to address the parking issue when he ,Nets the
time Sot the other buildinG. So, the nu~[~Jer that drove that nu~[~Jer oS
spaces is the potential use oS the BaGshaw parcel itselS, which is more
than what Mr. Suter will require, but that's just as well because -
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Separate them by the HuGhes to the Suter to that and
restate that please.
MR. EHLERS: The nur[~Jer oS spaces required by the actual parcel which is
the old movie theater and machine shop, we believe is E6, and that's the
E6 that is shown on his site. We believe, that }ir. Suter, requires 30
spaces, 8 oS which he has on his site, EE OS which he will use on that
compatibility.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: So, there's a total oS E6 Sot the HuGhes' site.
MR. EHLERS: To the HuGhes, BaGshaw site.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: A total oS 30 Sot the Suter site.
Pa,Ne 10 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board or Appeals
CHAIP~AN: No, no, there's 8 on the Suter site. Correct me ir I'm wrong
Mr. Ehlers. When you refer the word compatibility, you're referring to
the word or being used I assur[[e on a concurrent basis?
MR. EHLERS: Correct.
CHAIP~AN: So, ir Mr. HuGhes has two patrons and he intends to be open
passed %:00 o'clock, when the tenant or }ir. Suter really cranks up the
business, then they will be utilizing two or those spaces and the
remaining spaces will be then let out to Mr. Suter's property.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: So shared 34.
MR. EHLERS: Shared be the word.
CHAIP~AN: Shared, yes.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Question I have here is, correct me ir I'm wronG, but,
when I saw the Planning Board approved rot Mr. HuGhes' parking plan, it
didn't look like this.
MR. EHLERS: It didn't look like this. This one is much prettier.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: It may be prettier, but it's not the same one.
MR. EHLERS: I have Mr. HuGhes' plan here. In what respect do you reel a
difference?
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Well, see ir we can ,Net it and look at it. I believe at
the time they had said, we have approved it. I just don't want to ,Net
into a situation where we're infrinGinG on a plan that has been approved
by another agency. The plan that they approved according to this, Mr.
Ehlers, here, at least this is what we're Goner -
CHAI P~AN: You're talking about the plan that the Planning Board
approved?
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: RiGht. The HuhGes' property doesn't show any parking
}Jack here.
MR. EHLERS: That's what we're asking you to do. Exactly that, is we're
asking you to extend under your authority, under Section I, to extend the
parking to the Residence Zone, to add sufficient spaces to occupy this
building properly, which is }ir. BaGshaw's building as well as }ir. Suter's
buildin,~.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Then, wouldn't it require authority from Mr. BaGshaw to
revise this and wouldn't we have to have a revised hearing because in
order to undo what the Planning Board has done, which is in essence what
you're asking us to do? Ir we're to consider a new plan that is contrary
to what the Planning Board already has approved, then we would have to
have some sought or revised application from either from Mr. BaGshaw on
behalf or }ir. HuGhes and }ir. Suter.
Pa,Ne 11 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
CHAIP~AN: That's basically what I asked Mr. Ehlers to do and that is to
rind out is they' re Going to approve this particular one or what other
modisications they are Going to be required to want.
MR. EHLERS: You're asking me to meet with the Planning Board?
CHAIP~AN: Yes, I'm asking you to do that between now and the E4th.
MR. EHLERS: I can't argue with that at all. I'd be happy to do that.
But, I would like to say, they did not address the residence section
because unless you Grant ils permission to have parking there, there may
be no parking there.
CHAIrmAN: But you ,Not to understand
situation. We don't designate parkinG.
you understand?
that this is a real unbelievable
We can only allow it to happen,
MR. EHLERS: Well then, we'd be happy to have you allow it.
CHAIP~AN: IS they say that they're happy with the E6 spaces, the E4 and
E, in the conSormity that you have here, or any conSormity, as being the
total amount oS spaces that are required in this consiGuration, then, we
are then able and Sree and aware oS being able to Grant it. Without
having that availability, we can Grant it, but it causes a mix-up between
the Boards because we lack the jurisdiction oS the total amount oS spaces
that are clearly needed. You have clearly told us that those are the
spaces that you reel are needed by both. I can deal with the concurrent
or the sharing or whatever. I can deal with that aspect oS it, but I
can't deal with the Sact that they're telling us that they're not happy
with the site plan. We've ,Not to know what revisions they want on the
site plan beSore we can Grant the parking spaces a residential district
under Section 191.
MR. EHLERS: To put it on the table the real problem is that the Planning
Board has a master plan Sot this area. Are you aware
CHAIP~AN: Yes, I saw it.
MR. EHLERS: They attempted to beat Mr. Suter into that in 1988, 1991 and
while that had happened the beverage store added on, they converted a
house to an oSSice, no site improvements, up and down the block everybody
does and no site improvements and Mr. Suter is the only person that they
keep trying to install this curbing and drainage and cutters in their
Grand scheme. We will never agree to that as a practical matter. I'm
happy to Go }Jack to them, but it's just unSortunate. I met with your
clerk and with Mr. Kassner beSore I did this and I called your clerk to
day just to consirm that I wasn't hallucinatinG. }ir. Kassner said, "Go
to the Zoning Board, ,Net their blessing and bring it to us". I'm sitting
Sat, dur[~J and happy on the Expressway, when I ,Net }Jack there's the letter
and we're all opposed to it." I'm happy to Go }Jack. Mr. Suter told me he
wants to legitimize this business. He's tired oS being picked on. I'll
use that term careSully over the years. That's why we're here.
Pa,Ne 1E - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
CHAIP~AN: I never did ask Larry this question, when he called me in two
instances. I'll ask the question tonight. Is this one oS the reasons
why you never really wanted to put on site parking on your own parcel?
MR. EHLERS: He's reluctant to put on site in }Jack because he's ,Not a
very nice oak tree there which he would like to leave. You know, next
door has all this parkinG. It's just a big vacant area and it makes
logical sense. He has cesspools }Jack there, one that the county made us
like triple up the cesspools. Lord knows he won't have to pump them in
this lisetime. We did everything we could. We put a meter on the toilet
to show how many times it was Slushed in a day. I can't say we won't Go
to the Planning Board, I just want you to be aware that is they come }Jack
and say pull out the master plans, start talking about curbs and drainage
street lights and trees and setbacks. I mean they want to take Larry's
parking away in Sront oS his store and they want to take Mr. BaGshaw's
parking away in Sront oS his store. Those are pre-existinG non-
conSormities.
CHAIP~AN: The only thing I don't have is a copy oS that 1981 so I'd
appreciate that. The site plan approval that you were reSettinG to.
Secondly, there's some question about, some backing up burrer in Sront oS
Larry's building that was never placed in there, or somethinG.
MR. EHLERS: That's the letter Srom 1981 Srom the Planning Board.
CHAIP~AN: Now, this was only a sish store at that time?
MR. EHLERS: Correct.
CHAIP~AN: So that's how they're dealing with the aspect oS the expansion
this now, is that correct?
MR. EHLERS: This is the plan. The accessory tables, originally they
were just outside picnic tables, they've been there a long time. It's
when he decided to put the cover on it that they added that to his
attention. In 1981, thin,Ns weren't as precise as they are today?
CHAI P~AN: RiGht.
MR. EHLERS: To }Jest oS my knowledge this documents that I'm Going to
hand you is the site plan Sot 1981, which is essentially the same as what
we show you today on Suter property. It shows that they approved the
parking in the Sront with the enmity out and Srom a legal stand point,
it's my position that he's vested in that parking and to now say that
parking somehow is inadequate.
CHAIP~AN: So, this is the route we're Going to be Going then so to speak
and hopeSully we'll be able to deal with the whole aspect oS it on the
E4th. I just want you to know that on the E4th this entire room is Going
to be loaded with people. I can't Guaranty that a news crew isn't Going
to be out here Srom News 1E and and the whole nine yards but it's one oS
the advantages oS having two public meeting in one month and we don't
know where you're Going to lie on the calendar so you're just Going to
have to be -
Pa,Ne 13 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board of Appeals
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: We're Going to have to designate a time, probably
7:1%, we'll take him first.
CHAI P~AN: Yes.
MR. EHLERS: A procedural question and Mr. Bressler, we were asking you
in }ir. Suter's application to say that the parking can occur in the
residence district and my position is that that's properly before you to
decide. Is that a fair statement.
CHAIrmAN: That's correct, yes.
MEMBER TORTOP~: The only thing I want to know, is that true on behalf of
those parcels?
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Is what true?
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: I understand what you're saying is, yes, is it properly
before us 191 reGardinG the residential property. You, represent Suter.
My question, is how do we address Mr. HuGhes because we don't have an
application from him for 100-191.
MR. EHLERS: That's what I'm askinG. Have I perfected that. It's my
position that it says I can be compatible on an adjacent property and
with your permission I can have parking in a resident zone. If we need
to crank up another application I don't want to learn that later on after
time has passed so I'm hoping that your Board will accepts my position.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: I'm not sure of your question. I understand your
question. I have the same question. I don't know personally the answer
for that.
CHAIrmAN: We still don't have the amended disapproval.
MR. EHLERS: I wrote Mr. Fish, I called Mr. Fish.
CHAIP~AN: Well, the way to deal with it hopefully is when you're over at
the Planning Board, maybe you can stop in and see him and tell him you
need it. In the interim we'll discuss it with the Town Attorney. When
are we meeting with her?
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I don't know.
CHAIrmAN: We'll set another date when we're meeting with her and we'll
ask her to review it and see it we have to reopen the parking on the
aspect of the tenant, but I don't think we do because I think the entire
piece of property is one piece of property and who is Going to state if
it's parked on residential or if it's parked on business. It's reversed,
business or residential.
MR. EHLERS: I agree with you.
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It was a Special Exception that we did for Mr.
Pa,Ne 14 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
HuGhes.
CHAIrmAN: I know but it was predicated upon a site plan by the Planning
Board.
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Planning Board not Zoning Board.
CHAIP~AN: RiGht. You do understand what I'm saying about the parking
issue? That as long as it's designated within a block area and there are
certain designation oS parking spaces approved by those people over
Tortora, then we can approve it. We cannot designate parkinG, we can
approve parking that they say is appropriate Sot the site.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: We can approve this. In other words we can approve the
space but not the nur[~Jer oS spots available. That's up to them.
CHAIP~AN: So in other words is they wanted to dog leg to the east that's
up to them.
MR. EHLERS: Just to address that, that E76 SootaGe they raise in their
letter. The quote talks about lots within E00 Seet within the lot line,
not within E00 Seet oS the Sront door and I suGGest to you that the
parking lot completely does not comply with E74 Seet because most oS the
spaces are beyond E74 Seet Srom in Sront oS the store. So, that an absurd
cot[silent that they make.
CHAIP~AN: It's also one piece oS property owned by one owner, this
particular piece. This piece is owned by one owner. I'm not talking
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Another option on that you know,
would just be to amend Sot the next public hearinG,
request to include }ir. HuGhes Sot the 100-191 on
he~s Going to be using it in a cor[~Jined manner.
the cor[~Jined parking
to amend the variance
the }Jack parcel since
MR. EHLERS: Mr. HuGhes, we're not upsetting what he has in anp~ay. We're
only Giving him more parkinG, so I don't understand how it could hurt }ir.
HuGhes' application.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: I'm not saying it would hurt it, but is he is Going to
use that we don't have an application beSore us. Not in our legal
notice, nothing Sot him to use that, correct?
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: That's not the application here though, right?
MR. EHLERS: RiGht, it's the site, the entire site requires that parkinG.
CHAIP~AN: }{rs. Ostermann, question?
MEMBER OSTEP~ANN: No questions.
CHAIrmAN: Mr. Dinizio.
Pa,Ne 1% - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes. Let me just see is I ,Not this clear. This
particular map right here, really has no bearing other than you're
su,N,NestinG to us in order Sot this use to be used, that you would like to
have some parking spaces on this piece oS property which our code says,
can occur. You're stating to us and you reel that you complied with the
code, whether or not this site plan particular map has been riled with
anybody, because we don't do parkinG, we just do the concept oS the
amount oS space that it would require Sot parking and perhaps agree to
the Sact that, yes these two business are somewhat compatible in that
such as a movie theater would be with the shopping center, parking at
night Sot the movie theater and the shopping center during the day. Ai[~ I
correct in that? That this is not an application in anyway beSore the
Planning Board right now? What you would like Sot us to do is to approve
this, the concept. Then, you're Going to take this map and Go over to
the Planning Board and try with our approvals on here to ,Net this
particular site plan approved, am I correct?
CHAIP~AN: Can I answer that question?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I'm asking him the question.
CHAIP~AN: No, Jim, there's are two applications.
beSore the Planning Board.
There's also one
MEMBER DINIZIO: But that's not beSore us.
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Not Sot the Zoning Board.
CHAI P~AN: No.
MEMBER DINIZIO: RiGht, I'm saying this particular application right here
beSore us with this map is what they would like to take down to the
Planning Board Sot both the use oS these two particular parcels that you
would like Sot us to consider. IS we rind Savorable you're Going to take
this concept, Go down to the Planning Board and try to convince them that
this is a Good concept Sot the rules that they have to Sollow. Ai[~ I
correct?
MR. EHLERS: Can't ,Net a Building Permit unless the Planning Board signs
ors with either a waiver or a site plan. I think they' re unaware they
have approved a prior site plan because their letter where they say I
can't have the parking in Sront oS Mr. Suter's store leads me to believe
they didn't look in their own rile.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, but that's not Sot us. We don't have to worry about
that.
MR. EHLERS: You don't have to worry about that, Good. I think they' re
Going to accept that parking is you say that we may have the parkinG.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, I'm just concerned that Mr. HuGhes is draG,Ned into
this particular hearing right now.
MR. EHLERS: I'm not trying to draG,Ned Mr. HuGhes in this hearinG.
Pa,Ne 16 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
MEMBER DINIZIO: I don~t believe that he should be, that's basically what
I'm trying to say right now.
CHAIP~GLN: But the problem is, he is being draG,Ned in by the nature
MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, we'll read the memo when we Give it the due weight
that we consider and then we Go on Srom there. We make a decision, yes
or no based on that, but I just see us Going and dra,N,NinG the other Mr.
BaGshaw's property into another application at this particular time is
not something that is warranted. It's not part oS the application that's
CHAIPSGLN: I understand what you're saying Jim.
to take the wind out oS your sales beSore Mr.
reSlect on any oS this.
MR. EHLERS: Maybe, I don't understand, but is there are i% seats in here
that Mr. HuGhes needs, and everybody agrees they're OK Sot Mr. HuGhes and
then I bring in another 1% seats in and put them down, I don't understand
why anybody is mad at Mr. HuGhes because there are more seats Sot him to
use. We're not disruptinG. We took their plan where they put the
parkinG, the Planning Department where they put the parking Sot Mr HuGhes
and we tall SOr[[e more on the bottom in the residence Eone under Section I,
which says you Solks can Give us permission to do that and we came to you
to you to ask. So, I think I agree with Mr. Dinizio.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I just want to be clear on that. I saw it Going in a way
that I didn't consider right now. We should just be considering what
than others and then Go Srom there. I don't want to see this thing Go to
another application Sot somebody else at this particular time.
CHAIPSGLN: So the nature basically is, that is Mr. HuGhes had to come
}Jack Sot another application he would come }Jack separately and we'll deal
with it on that basis. The only question I have is that is were to deal
with this aspect as it sits beSore us now, the Planning Board would
revoke the waiver oS Mr. HuGhes and that's what I'm concerned about
because that puts us }Jack at square one. Eric would you just state your
name Sot the record.
MR. Bressler: Yes, I would like to speak to that is I could. I'm
Eric J. Bressler, P.C., Sot the owner oS the property, Harvey BaGshaw
Realty. I'm sitting here listening to the discussion and -
CHAIPSGLN: I have to be honest with you. Sometime we ,Net a little
wrapped-up with this stuSS.
MR. BRESSLER: No, I don't think so, I think that the issues are being
employed and I think that having employedall oS the issues we ,Not homed
}Jack in on where we're Going here. I listened to what Mr. Dinizio said,
I Sound myselS sitting there nodding my head. There's an application in
Sront oS you Solks tonight Sot conceptual approval Sot }ir. Suter to
Pa,Ne 17 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
utilize this orS-premises parking on a residential portion oS my client's
property. I think that he's entitled to that relies and I think that is
this Board Grants him that conceptual relies it is then his obligation
and Mr. Ehlers has indicated that he Sulsill that obligation to Go down
to the Planning Board and talk about where these spaces are Going to be
and how many oS them there are Going to be. I must say speaking Sot }ir.
BaGshaw to say that I'm outraged by the letter oS the Planning Board is a
Gross understatement. How the Planning Board can threaten the applicant,
Mr. BaGshaw, Mr. HuGhes and this Board with revoking a site plan because
this Board Grants conceptual relies to someone who is entitled escapes
me. LeGally, I must tell you, it' s my opinion it' s totally
unsustainable. There is no concept oS law that I'm samiliar with that
says because the Zoning Board Grants conceptual relies and nothing has
yet occurred with the Planning Board has any right to revoke anybody's
approval. I think that's just outrageous.
CHAIP~AN: You're SorGettinG one issue. One major issue. That these two
Boards have existed. Separate, but to,Nether on certain issues throughout
the town. I don't want to bridge what has been built between the Boards
over the past year. Conceptually as I said to you, all you Gentlemen,
except Sot }ir. Suter, was not at the last hearinG, I would love to
approve this tonight. I would love to deal with it tonight, but I don't
want them revoking this man's site plan approval.
MR. BRESSLER: And by doing so, the only thing you have sacilitated is a
trip }Jack to their ossice. We can't, he can't even Go }Jack to their
ossice unless you people conceptually approve the notion. They've as
much said that, which is why this letter is so puzzlinG.
CHAIP~AN: So, we'll Give you a straw vote and then Go }Jack to the
ossice, we'll approve it on the E7th and that's it. That there is there
philosophy that yes, we would approve it within Section 191 area, but we
want them to tell us where they want it put and how many spots they want.
MR. BRESSLER: I think that's not an unreasonable suGGestion. However, I
do have pause Given what they told Mr. IGelias. However, we'll see. I
think the applicant is entitled to it. Let me address one other issue.
Everybody seems to be concerned about what's Going to happen to Red here.
Well it seems to me that all we're asking Sot, all he's asking Sot and
all that Mr. BaGshaw has agreed to do is to take that little parcel in
the }Jack and add some additional parkinG. That doesn't impact him one
way or another and I rind it oSSensive that another court should say, you
know is he doesn't accor[s[~odate this Guy, we're Going to slam dunk him. I
don't think he has to make an application. I don't think he has standing
in Sront oS this Board to make an application. Nothing is happening to
him. However, is this Board and to ,Net }Jack to a point }is. Tortora made,
is this Board Seels that }ir. BaGshaw as owner oS the property ought to be
saying or doing somethinG, either in conjunction with this application or
a separate one we would be pleased to do that. It's not him, Red over
there, it's us. We're the owner oS the property, it's our property in
the }Jack that he has no rights to anp~ay, that is an issue here, so I
just want to clarisy that. We're the interested party, he's the
interested party and he is the unintended benesiciary oS the judicial
parking but we don't be,NrudGe him that. OK, that's what I think you were
Pa,Ne 18 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board or Appeals
,Netting at and I think you put your ringer on the problem, you just ,Not
the identity wronG, it's us you want to hear from and I'm here telling
you that we will do what we have to do to Give you jurisdiction over this
issue so that you just don't say you can park orr site, you can say, you
know, and you can do it on your property.
CHAIP~AN: Would you concurrently discuss that with the Town Attorney as
we will?
}iR. BRESSLER: Or course.
CHAIP~AN: AlriGht, so we will -
MR. BRESSLER: I think procedurally that does it ir I had my wish list
its what Mr. Dinizio said, however, we're willing to try it any way that
will ,Net this deal done. I think in a perfect world, yeah, you Grant
your approval, you send it down and say, OK folks where do you want the
spaces, and ir they don't say yes, well, you know, but in light or the
tactics enGaGed in, maybe your suGGestion is the better way to Go. We
tried to do that, we met with Kassner. He's suppose to be here, he told
MR. CHAIP~AN: I think what you need to do is just schedule rot their
work session and say listen, ir you're unhappy with this, tell us the way
you want it rewritten and we'll rewrite it, meaning you.
MR. BRESSLER: I think at this juncture Mr. Chairman, ir we can take an
interlude from the legal rationality }ir. BaGshaw here, will say
some t h i n G ·
MR. CHAIP~AN: How are you Mr. BaGshaw?
MR. BAGSHAW: Very Good. I'd just like to point out one factor here. My
admission or the Planning Board, my previous tenants were more intensely
than Mr. HuGhes and his boats. We had swir[s[~inG pools, bicycles sales, I
think, approximately sill years and we never had a problem parking with
Mr. Suter sharinG. We never had any arguments amongst ourselves, we
never had endanger any pedestrians, we never had a traffic accident, we
never had any problems in the sill years or this hi,Nh intensity use
business at Mr. Suter. Ail we had was ten designated parking spaces in
the front or the place and the empty lot in }Jack, no designation. Ten in
front, his sill or eight, we never had a problem. Now, all or a sudden
and I think it's because or the big plant, now all or a sudden, I need E6
parking spaces rot my two buildings. We never needed E6 since the movie
theater went, now we do. I do not want to see him hurt by any or this
Gestapo, John Gotti, intimidating remarks from this Planning Board and I
don't want anything reflecting on }ir. HuGhes. As a matter or tact, I'm
tired or it, I'm sick or it, and I'm not Going to stand rot this
intimidation another second. I've fought it rot rive years and I'm done
with it. Thank you.
MR. CHAIP~AN: Thank you, Sir. OK, so that's where we are and we'll just
ask ir anybody has any questions and we'll conclude the hearing and
recess it until the E4th and hopefully that will be a quick easy
Pa,Ne 19 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board of Appeals
situation and we'll wrap it up then.
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: 7:1% P.M.?
CHAIP~AN: 7:1% P.M. is OK.
}iR. BRESSLER: Can I just ask a question? I Guess I'm just assuming that
you're Going to Go see the Town Attorney or whatever?
CHAIP~AN: Eric is, you both will.
}iR. BRESSLER: You're willing to take your chances on the application as
it stands. As the evidence is submitted and you're willing to take a yes
or a no from us on the concept of this on the basis of this matter and I
correct?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Correct.
}iR. BRESSLER: OK, thank you.
CHAIP~AN: Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor? Anybody
like to speak against? Seeing no hands, I very rarely do this but I will
tell you that the use of }ir. BaGshaw's property is a use that even thou,Nh
it is a use that has changed over the years, meaning the use of the tpes
of buildings so on and so forth that I have no specific problem with
entering into the residential portion of that piece of property for the
use intended, as I told you Gentlemen last meetinG. I've known }ir. Suter
for 3% years, I've known }ir. BaGshaw for 30 plus years, I've know Red
HuGhes for 1% years. These are all upstanding Gentlemen as I told you.
I have no objection.
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Do you want to do a poll?
CHAIP~AN: I don't want to force anybody into a poll. If anybody wants
to offer their feelings or conceptually it is entirely up to them. Does
anybody feel that they want to say anythinG, Jim? Do you have any
objection to this?
MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm not Going to state.
CHAIP~AN: AlriGht, that's the }Jest I can do at this point.
question in the }Jack there. Yes ma'am.
There's a
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Can we have your name please.
}iS. MILLER: }dy name is Luck Miller and I live to the west of }ir. Suter's
property. I wanted to know if that has been addressed?
CHAIrmAN: We're still addressing it.
MS. MILLER: Approved or disapproved.
CHAIrmAN: We're still addressing it.
Pa,Ne E0 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
MS. MILLER: It hasn't been.
CHAIP~AN: It has not been approved or disapproved.
MS. MILLER: In this letter that I received it doesn't say how many Seet
there is. It just says any sussicient side yard oS blank, less than the
required ten Seet.
CHAIP~AN: You're talking about on the sish market?
MS. MILLER: Yes.
CHAIP~AN: Or the restaurant? I have to ,Net the -
MS. MILLER: No, its the tent. I had thought that that tent was approved
by the town. Its been there now Sour or rive years. I'm just concerned
Sot myselS because that's my property.
CHAIP~AN: I have 3-1/E Seet.
MS. MILLER: 3-1/E Seet and I was just concerned Sot myselS that is its
not the required amount oS Seet, will it aSSect me when I want to sell
that property?
CHAI P~AN: Your piece?
MS. MILLER: Yes.
CHAIP~AN: I can' t answer that question. I could not answer that
question. I think the issue basically beSore you is, its been Sot a long
period oS time and its not something that has been established.
MS. MILLER: Yeah, well I had thought that it was approved. I didn't
know how many Seet it was Srom this.
CHAIP~AN: From the legal notice?
MS. MILLER: Yes.
MR. BRESSLER: The word aSSect, it would not aSSect what you do on your
property. IS she's asking will it change her side yards, we're not
aSSectinG how big or small what you use your property Sot.
CHAIP~AN: Thank you. AGain, not hearing any Surther cor[~[~ent, I make a
motion recessing the hearing to 7:1% P.M. on April E4th. Second?
MEMBER DINIZIO: I~11 second.
CHAIP~AN: Ail in Savor?
MEMBERS: Aye.
7:%7 P.M. App1. No. 4466 PETER WALKER
Pa,Ne E1 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board of Appeals
CHAIP~AN: This is a request for a variance based upon the March 11, 1997
Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for permission to
locate a large portion of accessory tennis court structure in an area
other than the required rear yard. Article XXIII, Section 100-E31A.
Location of Property, 37% Pine Tree Court, CutchoGue, NY., Parcel 1000-
98-1-7.17, containing a size of 79,13% sq. ft. I have a copy of the
Suffolk County Tall Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the
area. The tenant's court area is on a private road leading to Mr.
Walker's house. We have been down there and had seen it. It's a 60 x
1E0 foot court and we welcome you here tonight Mr. Walker and anything
you'd like to state for the record.
MR. WALKER: I'd just like to say that I have with the court itself, it's
basically the only place I could put it on the property, on the creek
side in the front. The way I had it positioned catecornered you see on
the drawing is the north and south exposure, so you can play tennis
without being in the sun. The private road itself although it's %0 deep
wide, only 1% or 16 feet of it is used, and as you can see on your
diagram I drew that would leave from the corner of the tennis court to my
closest neighbor's house 1E0 feet. The north side of it is 10 feet away
from my other neighbor Phillips Marco, Patricia Marco and that's on
vacant field, 100 feet to another parcel that is undeveloped. The only
people that do come down that road are us. It's a private road of
ingress and egress to the property itself so it wouldn't be seen by
anybody but ourselves.
CHAIP~AN: We address the height of the fence issue which is the height
that is permitted within a front yard area which is 4 feet. Went there
for the physical inspection and the only question I didn't ask you, are
you entertaining any lightinG?
MR. WALKER: No.
Mr. Chairman: No lightinG, Great. We' 11 start with Mr. Doyen.
Questions, }irs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: The only question I had that does appear to be the
flattest area that you have and it also appears to be the largest area
that you have, open area without disturbing any trees.
CHAIP~AN: No, he took trees out.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Any further trees.
MR. WALKER: Just for the record, the trees that I did take out would
came out regardless of this. It ~ s a windbreak because our house faces
not only Marco's field but off the Marco's field then you have Briarcliff
Sod farm, so when it blows, we ,Net nailed.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Explain to us on which side would the fencing be?
MR. WALKER: The fencing would be on both ends of the court, 4 feet,
abutted by trees, landscaped to keep any of the balls I might hit,within
the quarters.
Pa,Ne EE - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: OK.
CHAIP~AN: }{rs. Ostermann?
MEMBER OSTEP~ANN: I have no questions.
CHAIP~AN: OK. Mr. Dinizio.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No.
CHAIP~AN: No, alriGht. Is there anybody while you're standing there Mr.
Walker, is there anybody in the audience like to speak in Savor? Anybody
like to speak against? We have a procedure in reSerence to a dealing
with this aster the public portion oS the hearinG. You're welcome to
stay or you're welcome to call us tomorrow. We sincerely hope that we
will ,Net to this one tonight.
MR. WALKER: I'll call tomorrow.
CHAIP$~AN: We thank you very much Sot coming in and sase home. Hearing no
Sur ther question I ' 11 make a motion reserving decision until later.
Somebody second that.
MEMBER OS TEP~ANN: Second.
CHAIrmAN: All in Savor.
MEMBERS: Aye.
8:04 P.M. - Appl. No. 4410 - CAROLINE TALBOT
CHAIP~AN: This is request Sot a variance based upon the }{arch 4, 1997
Notice oS Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector Sot permission to
construct and accessory storage building in a Sront yard area, at
premises located at Fox Avenue, Fishers Island, NY; Parcel 1000-9-1-E7,
containing a lot size oS 18,%00+ sq. st. The nature oS this application
is a 10 x 16 Soot storage building in the Sront yard area adjacent to
Equesterian Avenue which is approximately 10 Seet Srom the property line
adjacent to Equesterian Avenue. I have a copy oS the SuSSolk County Tall
}{ap indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there
anybody here on behalS oS this? No, Mr. Doyen, is there something you'd
like to add to the record since you are the most close related person
Srom Fishers Island?
MEMBER DOYEN: Other than your new procedure in the whatever you call it,
has already been silled out with my remarks on it. IS you want me to read
those OK.
CHAIP~AN: Well, just paraphrase it. What would you like to tell us.
MEMBER DOYEN: It's the most logical, practical phrase to put it, it
doesn't interSere with anybody, visually or otherwise.
Pa,Ne E3 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board of Appeals
CHAIP~AN: OK, I don't see any indication that they intend any utilities
in this buildinG.
MEMBER DOYEN: No, no utilities.
CHAIrmAN: Is there an~Jody on the Board that would like to discuss
anything on this application with Mr. Doyen? Seeing no hands, is there
an~Jody in the audience would like to speak in favor? An~Jody like to
speak against? Hearing no further questions, I'll make a motion closing
the hearing reserving decision until later.
MEMBER OS TEP~ANN: Second.
MEMBERS: Aye.
8:06 P.M. - GARY SACKS and ALAN SCHLESINGER
CHAIP~AN: Based upon the July 16, 1996, Notice of Disapproval from the
Building Inspector, applicants request a Variance under Article XXIII,
Section 100-E39.4B for a proposed deck addition within 7% feet of
bulkhead, at 1E% Mesrobian Drive, Laurel; Parcel 1000-14%-4-7. I have a
copy of the Suffolk County Tall Map indicating this and surrounding
properties in the area. We have seen you, have you come to some unanimity
with the next door neighbor or agreement or a -
MS. BORRELLI: Before we start, I have a question. Do you have sole
control over decks? I mean this isn't shared with the Planning Board?
No, OK.
CHAIP~AN: My question is, you're not brin,NinG up the issue of parking
are you?
MS. BORRELLI: No, I don't want to Go through and find out who has
control over the nur[~Jer of spots, no, I don't want to do that. You have
the plan in front of you. It is essentially the same, my clients have
talked to the next door neighbor. They have shook hands on an
accor[s[~odation that they have made with one another which actually is a
continuing acco~[~[~odation to the next door neighbor having put up the two
car GaraGe and they didn't oppose and }Jack and forth. So, they've come
to an accor[s[~odation. What the plan is essentially as it has was proposed
I believe that the next door neighbor wrote a letter and said that he was
withdrawing his opposition which I ,Not a copy
CHAIrmAN: What's the date of that letter?
MS. BORRELLI: It's very recent I think.
CHAIrmAN: March 14th. We're either a 1E or a 1% foot deck.
MS. BORRELLI: RiGht. Our deck as proposed was 1% feet. Its %0 feet
from the bulkhead. The Board of Trustees has already Granted a waiver.
It's 10 feet from the lot line. I think it is approximately E0 feet long
at the most easterly side because it cuts off at at angle on both sides.
Pa,Ne E4 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board of Appeals
I don't know what else I can tell you other than you have the plans.
CHAIP~AN: What I was unable to calculate and maybe you can ,Net for me
between now and the E4th is the height of the deck above Grade at the 1%
feet from the house.
MS. BORRELLI: The height of the deck above Grade.
CHAIP~AN: Because the Grade slopes. You see we were talking when Mr.
Villa was on the Board of a 7 os a 9, I calculated it under with one step
coming off the Glass sliding doors, I calculated at 48 inches, but it's
Going to be Greater than that, if the Board is Going to entertain a 1E os
1% foot deck.
MS. BORRELLI: OK, Mr. Chairman you're have to Go slow because I'm not
very Good with nur[~ers and second of all this kind of architectural
stuff just me a little crazy.
CHAIP~AN: Here's the house, here's the deck.
here as she falls away.
I want to know the height
MS. BORRELLI: Over these, at the furthest point, as the Ground fall over
these. I can ,Net that for you. I'm looking at the map that he was
building and that doesn't Give you where it is where it falls away, but,
I can ,Net that for you.
CHAIrmAN: I hate to ,Net into this issue, but it does not appear we have
any opposition. Are we still talking a trellis asea os we're not talking
a trellis asea?
MS. BORRELLI: What we were talking about was the deck as proposed with
the railing Going around it with like columns but you know past of almost
a continuation of the railing and then lattice Going across the top.
That was the original proposal before the Board. Is that what you're
addressinG?
CHAIrmAN: That's what I'm referring to.
particularly in favor of that.
I don't know if I'm
MS. BORRELLI: In favor of the lattice work?
CHAIP~AN: Yes, because what happens is that then becomes roofinG. Not
necessarily with your clients but subsequent owners, it becomes roofing
and then it becomes another room and so on and so forth. You understand
what I'm sayinG?
MS. BORRELLI: Your talking about setting the Ground work for somebody
else in the future asking you to add on to it.
CHAIP~AN: Yes, I would like to see the deck and then if these was a need
in the future for that. That can all be achieved by crank out awnings,
it can be achieved by ur[~rellas so on and so forth.
MS. BORRELLI: I talked to my client before about the lattice work
Pa,Ne E% - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
the sun screening across the top and what he is primarily interested in
is maintaining the columns at the end. He would be willing to SoreGo
this provided he could do the outer structure on the perimeter so that it
can be used Sot hanGinG plants and so Sorth. Then he has the columns
that Go up in an outer perimeter like a Sramework Srom which you can do
hanGinG plants is you wanted something like that but this he would Give
CHAIP$~AN: Now, is this again Going through model? IS we had this
standing at the end oS a deck, the columns at the end, are these columns
then attached }Jack to the house on both ends?
}iS. BORRELLI: This is }ir. SchlesinGer.
Yes, (}dr. SchlesinGer) I would like
that. That answers that question.
Alan, would you like to do that?
to do that. He would like to do
CHAIP$~AN: For the record this is }ir. SchlesinGer. So you want to say
something Sot the record?
}iR. SCHLESINGER: You said something about the awninG. We did look into
that a while ago and there's a problem because oS the winds coming ors oS
the }Jay. They said it would just be ripped to shreds. That's part oS
the reason we need something to ,Net out oS the sun and an awning doesn't
do it.
}iS. BORRELLI: You're talking about the columns Going ors Alan and those
columns being connected and Going }Jack to the house?
}iR. SCHLESINGER: Yes, I just a, blankinG, I Guess they'll be about so
bi,N, they're between each column, designed wise to a -
CHAIP~AN: A sun screen.
MR. SCHLESINGER: No, just along the perimeter oS the columns.
CHAIP~AN: The Sour corners. Three corners. Well two corners actually.
Well its Sour corners when it's attached to the house, it's Sour corners.
MR. SCHLESINGER: }{ore Sroma designed point oS view to tie it all up.
CHAIP~AN: I was a little conSused because I thought the neighbor was
upset with the Sact that their waterview was Going to be blocked and that
was the reason why they were concerned and that was one oS the reasons
why I thought we eliminated everything Srom the deck area up. You
understand what I'm sayinG?
MS. BORRELLI: I have to tell you Mr. Chairman, that it really has become
very conSusinG to me as to exactly what the concerns were because I~ve
had so many conversations and the concerns have changed. I mean at
certain points we actually wound up talking about the air conditioner
noise and the lights Srom outside, lights that have existed Sot ten years
so, that is somewhat conSusinG.
CHAIP~AN: Not that we deal with waterviews anp~ay, but Go ahead.
Pa,Ne E6 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
MS. BORRELLI: No, but he was worried about the waterview. However, I
think the way the trees have been planted now and the way they will be
Groomed in the Suture his waterview is not Going to be hindered Srom his
deck which is what he was really interested in was Srom his }Jack deck. I
do not think that his waterview will have a hinderance the way this is
working out. As a matter oS Sact everybody seems to be enjoying some
more privacy as which was one oS his concerns. OriGinally, it was that
this was Going to be so close to the lot line that they would lose
privacy and I think because oS the plantin,Ns that have been put in they
actually have wound up with actually more privacy, both oS them on both
sides oS the plantin,Ns than they had beSore.
CHAIP~AN: AlriGht, so I'll deal with that aspect. We'll start with Mr.
Dinizio. Questions?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I just want to cot[silent about the trellis worked out.
I'm not in so much in Savor oS it either. I just think we ever really
dealt with that tpe oS thing Sot a deck. I just don't think that we
ever dealt with that tpe oS architecture Sot a deck.
MR. SCHLESINGER: Directly opposite a -
CHAIP~AN: The JudGe's house?
MR. SCHLESINGER: Yes.
CHAIP~AN: You see the problem is, Mr. SchlesinGer, again, we Go, not
necessarily you and your partner or your co-owner, it then creates a room
aspect Sot some time in the Suture and not that you would enclose it or
whatever the case might be and that's where the problem is. As you know
the lots are undersized and so on and so Sorth.
MS. BORRELLI: Wouldn't they have to come beSore you is they wanted to
add a room on to the house?
CHAIP~AN: These miraculously happen.
MS. BORRELLI: Yes, miraculously happen without a CO means that you can't
sell it in the Suture unless you're Going to tear it down again. So, I
mean even thou,Nh you may be creating what somebody might think at some
point in the Suture that they can use to build a room, is they build it,
they' re building an illegal room Sot which they do not have a CO Sot
which they cannot sell it is they Go to sell it. They've ,Not to either
then legitimize it by coming to you or they've ,Not to take it down.
MR. SCHLESINGER: I'm sought oS being punished Sot maybe that somebody
might do in the Suture.
CHAIP~AN: No, absolutely not. Mr. Dinizio is absolutely correct that we
are just not use to Granting the trellis aSSect without actually seeing
what it's suppose to look like.
MR. SCHLESINGER: I mean it's not a trellis, nsually a trellis is a
Pa,Ne E7 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board or Appeals
crisscross. This is just straight slates and usually about so wide.
CHAIP~AN: And you're talking about tilling that in on a you know, a 16
inch basis or an 18 inch basis Going down.
}iR. SCHLESINGER: Going across.
CHAIP~AN: Going across. Yes, basically they're tir[~Jers without a root.
MR. SCHLESINGER: RiGht. ,let some shade without closing it orr. I don't
want it to be a root.
MS. BORRELLI: That's the whole idea, is conceptually is to have the open
affect but to just have something from which you can Grow thin,Ns. I mean
you can actually have vines ir you want, whatever, ir that's the point or
you have some shading affect from it.
CHAIP~AN: They do that on the south shore on the ocean side.
MS. BORRELLI: Is that what they do.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I just think or all the people that we've said could not
have that. I think a deck is a deck and it's a place rot you to Go out
and ,Net some sun and do those kind or thin,Ns. You know a lot or people
come here and we tell them specifically that it's not to be enclosed,
it's not suppose to be open to the sky, you know it's something that is
out or the normal, you know you like in the Grey area as rat as I'm
concerned. I wanted just to be fair with you that ir you have some other
reason as to you could try to convince me that this is something other
than you know a root.
MS. BORRELLI: I think that the only thing we're trying to convince you
or is that my clients rind it aesthetically pleasing and that the design
that they have suits what they think or as what this decking area should
look like. I mean we all want to enjoy the outdoors and we want to enjoy
it in the manner in which we would like to enjoy it and other than that I
can't do anything else to convince you. I can tell you that they have
no intention or enclosing it.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I'm not accusing anybody or that I'm just, I don't
look into the future. We're looking at this particular deck right now,
the design that you want. You've been honest enough to come to us with
the design and tell us what you would like and you know I've been
listening and considering and I suppose I could or just went inside or
made the decision without you having any input. I just wanted to add to
that it seems to me we don't normally ordinarily allow that. We think
or a deck as having a 4 root rail and basically that's it. Anything
above that to me is over and above what we normally Give rot a deck.
MS. BORRELLI: I mean we're here at your discretion rot what you elect to
Give us in this variance that is our preference and we are willing to cut
}Jack the slats that Go all the way across and just do the perimeter. I
mean would even rind that acceptable although that it's less acceptable
to ils, but or course we will accept what you Give ils.
Pa,Ne E8 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
CHAIP~AN: We do have an advertising problem, Carmela.
MS. BORRELLI: An advertising problem.
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Well, the application was Sot a deck.
CHAIP~AN: The application was Sot the deck, not Sot the enclosure oS the
deck, because that's really a quasi route tpe oS situation. So, what we
have to do is we'll ask you to modisy the application, we'll readvertise
it, but that entire area that's adjacent to the deck that basically ,Noes
toward the south or toward the creek, does not appear to have been
addressed in reSerence to an insuSSiciency to the bulkhead which is
landward oS the planting area that's in Sront oS it.
MS. BORRELLI: These are the steps that come down, right, and I believe
that he measured the %0 Seet Srom here. So, we're talking about I think
that's an old plan and I think the new plan is three steps, is I'm not
mistaken.
CHAIP~AN: OK, because the steps can't exceed 30 square Seet or less.
They~ ve ,Not to be in, that ~ s the maximum.
MS. BORRELLI: This is not part oS the proposal, this was potentially a
Suture landscaping plan. In Sact, I was Going to ask you about that.
Potentially, what is anything oS this would have to be here? But this is
what is being proposed right now. Just the steps to it. I mean all oS
position to be even thinking about Sot a long time. I mean we're talking
long ran,Ne planning here.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: One question, is you can just sur[s[~arize Sot us again why
it is that you can't ,Net the same benesit Srom just putting this addition
where the existing patio is right now?
MS. BORRELLI: We have a couple oS reasons Sot putting it where it is.
The existing patio is on the sunny side oS the house. As Alan told you
beSore they had actually looked into creating shade there by doing
and/or installers that because oS the winds coming in ors the }Jay the
awning would last about two years and they would have to start replacing
because it would ,Net a rip here, and a rip there and so Sorth and that's
just not economically Seasible. One oS the other reasons is, is that
that portion ors the stone patio is the only part oS this lot that is
sairly level, so that is you're Going to use it Sot any }Jack yard kind oS
activities, is you have company, is you have sriends and you're ors the
deck and ors the patio and you want to, I don't know what you do, I mean
is you're playing badminton or what have you, or croquette, that's the
only area that you can use because the part that where we're proposing
with the deck as has been pointed out has a sairly severe slope. I mean,
its even dissicult walking down that so you so you can't use it and then
you're taking up with more deck area the only part oS usable part oS your
}Jack yard or side yard.
Pa,Ne E9 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: What I was actually talking about was using the existing
patio. Because, you know, patio, deck, presumably you're Going to sit
outside and you want to enjoy the water. An existing patio is certainly
located within the water.
MS. BORRELLI: Yes, and it's certainly advantageous Sot looking at the
waterview. I think that what they want is additional decking space and
this provides them Sot it. I mean it's just additional space.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Would you say that Sot the record please.
MR. SCHLESINGER: It's too small here.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: It's too small and it's not practical. Tell me why it's
not practical to expand it.
MR. SCHLESINGER: It's just -
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: You mentioned, you said an expansion would insrinGe on
the level part oS the yard and that awnings were not practical because it
was too windy, windy on that side oS the house.
MS. BORRELLI: RiGht, and I think that those are sussicient reasons
us to consider doing it the other way.
sur[s[~er day it's scorching that day and there's no
absolutely no place.
CHAIP~AN: You mean the cement patio?
MR. SCHLESINGER: Yes, so I personally, I wound up Going inside.
CHAIP~AN: OK, Mr. Doyen, any questions?
MEMBER DOYEN: No.
CHAIP~AN: OK, so in lieu oS chanGinG or modisyinG the application, why
don't we just Go with what we have right now and then is there's sometime
in the near Suture that you want to come with something else we'll deal
with it.
MS. BORELLIT: What you mean -
CHAI P~AN: Open deck.
MS. BORRELLI: Open deck. This is a suttle way oS ,Netting us to agree to
not doing anything else.
CHAIP~AN: No, this is a suttle way oS closing this hearing sinally.
}iR. SCHLESINGER: I don't understand this Carmela. I'm not asking Sot a
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: OK.
MR. SCHLES INGER: On
place to Go Sot shade,
Pa,Ne 30 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board of Appeals
CHAIP~AN: Yeah, but she didn't, no, no, -
MS. BORRELLI: No, the application asked for a deck. The design that
came in asked for this additional stuff so that the advertising and the
publications did not include that so that they would have to, we would
have to start again, we'd have to revise the application, they would have
to republish and we would have to come }Jack in front of them. That's the
choice. Would the columns be OK? Is that part of a deck, just the
CHAIP~AN: StraiGht columns, up on each corner?
MS. BORRELLI: StraiGht columns up. OK, and that's part of -
MR. SCHLESINGER: Without a permit?
CHAIP~AN: Without a permit, right.
MS. BORRELLI: OK, then we Go with that.
CHAIP~AN: Yes, and you're Going to Give me a height figure, sometime,
right?
MS. BORRELLI: From the end of the 1% feet to -
CHAIP~AN: Elevation, take a straight line with a level Going out and
just measure it to the height.
MR. SCHLESINGER: Do you need to know exactly, because I can tell you
that I expect it to be something that I can maybe just ,Net under.
CHAIP~AN: How tall are you?
}iR. SCHLESINGER: %-7"
CHAIP~AN: OK, that's about right.
MR. SCHLESINGER: I'm talking from my head.
MS. BORRELLI: Is that Good enough?
CHAIP~AN: That's Good, yes, because I have 48 inches at nine foot. I
think that's what Mr. Villa was talking at the time. Seven or nine, I
MR. SCHLESINGER: This is what I'm expectinG.
CHAIP~AN: RiGht, we just wanted to er[~Jody that within the decision. We
didn't want some faulted thinG. Anybody else like to speak in favor or
against. Hearing no further cot[silents I'll make a motion closing the
hearing reserving decision until later.
MEMBER OS TEP~ANN: Second.
Pa,Ne 31 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board ot Appeals
CHAIrmAN: All in tavor.
MEMBERS: Aye
8:E6 P.M. - Appl. No. 4468 -}~ATTHEW AND LAnRIE DALY.
This is a request tot a variance based upon the }{arch 17, 1997 Notice
Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, tot a building permit to
construct new inGround pool, which disapproval is based "...under Article
III, Section 100-33, accessory buildings, structures and uses shall be
located in the required rear yard..." Location ot Property: E%0% Deep
Hole Drive, Mattituck, Parcel 1000-11%-14-1E, containing a lot size
CHAI P~AN: I have a copy ot a survey dated Decer[~er 30, 1993 trom
Roderick Van Tuyl, P.C., indicating a two story trame home, indicating a
proposed renovated pool in the side yard area and I have a copy ot the
Suttolk County Tall }{ap indicating this and surrounding properties in the
area. Please state your name tot the record.
MR. DALY: }{at Daly.
CHAIP~AN: OK, and what would you like to tell us.
MR. DALY: In its simplest terms, we have an existing pool that has been
there since I Guess around 1976 and what we propose to do is renovate the
pool area because the existing pool has tallen into disrepair.
CHAIP~AN: OK, and I assume that the Building Inspector disapproved you
because it's in the side yard area and he said it has no more intrinsic
worth or something in that nature probably.
MR. DALY: Basically, I Guess its lived its lite. I want to put it out
ot its misery. But, we want to renovate the existing pool in basically
in the same area involving the same envelope.
CHAIrmAN: The size ot the pool is?
MR. DALY: The size ot the pool, the current pool or -
CHAIP~AN: Or the one that you're intending to build.
MR. DALY: E0 x 40. The existing pool is a little bit less.
CHAIP~AN: And the total decking area around that will be what?
MR. DALY: Around 1,000 sq.
CHAIP~AN: And how wide would that be, % toot, 4 toot?
MR. DALY: On one side the east side ot the pool would be 4 toot and the
west side would be 4 toot up to 1E toot. It's Going to be like a rounded
moon shape.
Pa,Ne 3E - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board oS Appeals
CHAI P~GLN:
MR. DALY:
CHAI P~GLN:
composite?
MR. DALY:
CHAI P~GLN:
MR. DALY:
CHAI P~GLN:
Is this like Ground level or is it Going to be a
Ground level.
Ground level. Is it Going to be wood or will be sun
The actual deck?
Yes.
It's Going to be a stone deck.
Now, the location oS this pool
is approximately % teet ott the
property line?
}dR. DALY:
CHAI P~GLN:
that % to.
}dR. DALY:
That's what's showing here.
The existing pool?
Well, actually it shows % but it doesn't actually Give me what
That may be to a deck area.
To the }Jest oS my knowledge the edge oS the pool is 1% teet.
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Is that trom the steps to be rounded?
}iR. DALY: Oh! with the new -
CHAIP~GLN: Proposal, why don't you measure it ~or us and Give
MR. DALY: I think I can probably do that tot you.
The new pool have steps
on the shallow end and we'll try to mimic that look.
Going to bow the other end oS it which is about 4 teet.
CHAIPSGLN: So, it's Going to be 4 teet into that 1% teet area.
talking 117
MR. DALY: Yes.
CHAIPSGLN: Now, is this Gunite?
MR. DALY: The new pool will be Gunite.
CHAIPSGLN: So, it is a cement pool. So it's Going to be 11 tinished.
shower end is Going to be on the east side?
MR. DALY: The shower end will be the same side it is now.
that's the west side.
CHAIP~GLN: So, in e~ect where it's bowed there's not Going
decking area around it is what you're telling me?
MR. DALY: No.
The
I Guess
to be any
Pa,Ne 33 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board or Appeals
CHAI P~AN: OK.
MR. DALY: Actually on that end or the pool racing the east, that's Going
to be the smallest part or the deck. That's very unusual. We would be
happy just putting coping on the pool on that side and leave it at that.
CHAIP~AN: We just have to ask these questions because we have to er[~ody
it into a decision and that's the reason or else we end up calling you on
the phone after and it doesn't make sense to do that. AlriGht, we'll
start with }ir. Doyen.
MEMBER DOYEN: No.
CHAI P~AN: Mrs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Yes, I had asked ir you could provide distance from the
edge or the deck to the end or the deck to the pool to try to determine
how much is in the rear yard and how much is in the side yard because it
looks like it is split in halt where the end or the deck is.
MR. DALY. OK, I misinterpreted that question I Guess. What you're
saying is how much the existing pool?
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Ir you draw a line straight through because your wire
had said that the Building Department had determined that from the end or
the existing deck. That that was the rear yard. So, ir you look at your
survey and looking at it, it looks like halt or it is in the rear yard
and halt or it is in the side yard.
CHAI P~AN: Actually 40R.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: Yes, doesn't it, so I thought ir you could just Give us
that figure.
MR. DALY: I had that discussion with Gary Fish and we measured it orr at
the time it was 10, a difference or 10 root.
SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Is that %0R.
MEMBER TORTOPJ~: So, %0e, OK.
MR. DALY: Ir I can just say one thinG. My reelings were, you know, the
current pool has a CO, the deck has a CO, I don~t understand. I Guess my
question that puzzled me earlier was why would we even have to be
disapproved ir we just wanted to renovate an existing pool?
CHAIP~AN: Because it lost its real, its value. Very rarely you'll see
this application come before us rot houses or the same situation. The
town has felt that the house is no longer a residential use. The same
situation here, the pool has fallen to such disrepair that it has no
value. So, we have to reinstitute the value. It just so happens that
this value happens to be in the side yard area and that's the reason why
you're here. I'm not speaking rot the Building Inspector but I assume
Pa,Ne 34 - April 10, 1997
Public Hearing Transcripts Board ot Appeals
that' what he's reterrinG to.
MR. DALY: I think so.
CHAIP~AN: }{rs. Ostermann?
MEMBER OSTEP~ANN: No questions.
CHAI P~AN: MR. D I N I Z Illl ?
MEMBER DINIZIO: And, certainly, it you are enlarGinG it also, which is
another reason. I mean, it you had just pulled what you had to out, lett
a hole and put new stutt in it might have been a ditterent determination.
That's just an explanation. You're certainly entitled to do what you
su,~Gest, but, there were reasons why. I know you had a CO, you had a CO
tot what is it a 16 x 36 pool, now, it's Going to be a E0 x 40, so, there
are some ditterences there. Its deal with the side yard, we have
problems with side yards.
MR. DALY: I understand, we tried to basically keep the shell ot that
pool, the walls have to be pushed out in order to renew the pool. Its
not really cost ettective tot us just start over and do a whole new pool.
They're two completely ditterent processes.
CHAIRMAN: OK, while you're standing there is there anybody else in the audience would
like to speak against'? Anybody like to speak for'? Seeing no hands I'll make a motion
closing the hearing, reserving decision until later.
Motion seconded and ca~ied.