HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-10/20/2004Albert J. Krupski, President
James King, Vice-President
Artie Foster
Ken Poliwoda
Peg~' A. Dickerson
Town Hall
53095 Route 25
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971-0959
Telephone (631) 765-1892
Fax (631) 765-1366
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
Wednesday, October 20, 2004
7:00 PM
RECEIVED
Present were: Albert J. Krupski, Jr., President
James King, Vice-President
Kenneth Poliwoda, Trustee
Peggy Dickerson, Trustee
E. Brownell Johnston, Esq. -
Assistant Town Attorney for Trustees
Lauren Standish, Secretarial Assistant
Heather Tetrault, Environmental Technician
Absent was: Artie Foster, Trustee
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, November 15, 2004 at
8:00 a.m.
TRUSTEE KING moved to approve, TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded.
All AYES.
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at
7:00 p.m.
WORK SESSION: 6:00 p.m.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON moved to Approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded.
ALL AYES.
I. MONTHLY REPORT: For September, 2004, check for $9,900
was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General
Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town
Clerk's Bulletin Board for review.
Board of Trustees 2 October 20, 2004
III. RESOLUTIONS-ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITS:
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There are some Wetland Permits that have
been postponed. I'd like to go over those. Application for
an amendment Gregory Mazzanobile will not be opened. It
will be postponed until November. Under Coastal Erosion and
Wetland Permits, Number 3, Nicholas Notias will be postponed
until November. That's it.
1. Amy Martin on behalf of EDWARD FLANNIGAN requests an
Administrative Permit to construct a second story addition
to the existing dwelling to increase the bedroom space.
Located: 330 South Lane, East Marion. SCTM 38-6-14.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to comment
on this application? If not, I was the only Board Member
who looked at this application. It appears to be in the
same footprint, just an addition straight up. It's all lawn
in front. I find it to be negative in the impact. I don't
think anyone would have a problem with it. Any Board
Members have a comment?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No comment.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: If not, I'll make a motion to approve the
Administrative Permit on behalf of Edward Flannigan to
construct a second story addition to the existing dwelling
to increase the bedroom space. Located: 330 South Lane,
East Marion.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES
2. John Fabb on behalf of SEAN PETERS requests an
Administrative Permit to revegetate a cleared area within
100 feet of wetlands. Located: 1910 Bay Avenue, Mattituck.
SCTM # 144-3-40.4
MS. TETRAULT: This was a violation and he's come in with a
permit and you have a new plan. He brought us a plan. He
did his planting of the wetlands and that was approved. And
then he continued to do the work within 100 feet. He
changed his plans slightly, and he's bringing in new plans
tonight. I went out there today I looked at it and measured
it. I think it's in good shape. When you write the permit,
you may want to take a look at where you're going to allow
him to have turf, what kind of buffer for the wetlands or at
least have a nonfertilized area closer to the wetlands. But
the plantings look really good. I put pictures in the file,
Board of Trustees 3 October 20, 2004
if you see them there. The difference is he put this
driveway area, which is on the new plan.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Can you come up, Heather, is this today
when you went down today?
MS. TETRAULT: Yes. That driveway is brand new it's made of
pervious material. It was completely cleared. He's done a
lot of planting. This whole area -- are you going to want
to put grass in that whole?
MR. FABB: No. That's up for your discussion. That's why
we're going to try to move forward within the next two days
of seeding, so whatever you guys tell us where we should be,
we will.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Just say as per plan.
MS. TETRAULT: You can mulch it but no lawn within 50 feet.
MR. FABB: As of right now there's no turf area within 50
feet of the wetlands. It's all a mulch area been planted
with large conifers. As this new revised plan shows, after
the 50 feet I have a 25 foot area from the cobblestone up;
is that okay to be planted with a turf area?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: What you've got here is fine to me.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Why does it say proposed driveway and
proposed dwelling?
MR. FABB: That's because we took off our original survey,
which the measurements were wrong from the
homeowner. So the way I have presented this plan to you is
actually what is done there now.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: The house and driveway?
MR. FABB: The house has been existing, the driveway was
changed a little bit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I was just wondering, it seemed kind of odd
it said proposed.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Any other comments? Okay, I'll make a
motion to approve the revegetation plan for John Fabb on
behalf of Sean Peters for revegetated area and also the
pervious driveway and the nonfertilized buffer as on the
submitted plan.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES
IV. RESOLUTIONS-MOORING AND ANCHORAGE/STAKES:
1. EDWARD JENSEN requests a Mooring Permit in Cedar Beach
Creek for a 21 foot boat. Access: Private.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone here who would like to
speak on behalf of this application? I took a look at this
Board of Trustees 4 October 20, 2004
one. Mr. Jensen depicted three locations he would like, and
I'd say his choice Number 1 was the best spot for this
mooring, which would be in the back. I believe that it's
way up in the back. I'll make a motion to approve
Mr. Jensen's request for a mooring in Cedar Beach in choice
Number 1; do I have a second?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
2. JANICE RATTI requests a Mooring Permit in Mattituck
Creek for a 23 foot boat. Access: Private.
TRUSTEE KING: I looked at this, I went up in a boat, took
some soundings. The board they had marking the location, I
think it drifted offshore, so we're going to be pulling in
around 40 feet, between 30 and 50 feet, plenty of water,
access off their own property. I didn't have a problem with
it. I make a motion to approve.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
MS. STANDISH: Do you have a measurement offshore?
TRUSTEE KING: No. When the day comes he puts the mooring
in, if he wants me to come up there we can do it together,
so there's no problem. That he could just contact me I'll
go up, make sure it's all right.
V. APPLICATIONS FOR AMENDMENTS/EXTENSIONS/TRANSFERS:
1. JAMES BUGLION requests an amendment to Permit 5938 to
increase the front porches from 4' to 7'6", reducing the
front yard setback from 40' to 36'6". Located: 2520
Clearview Avenue, Southold. SCTM 70-10-29.1.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to speak
on behalf of this application?
MR. BUGLION: I'm the owner/Applicant, Jim Buglion. I don't
feel like there's going to be any negative impact on the
wetland.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I agree. I looked at it, looks like you
held your buffer. I don't have a problem going forward on
the landward side. Anyone else have a comment for this
application?
MS. FLEISCHER: I'm Beth Fleischer, at 700 Gegen's Landing.
That's my mother Dorothea Fleischer at 700 Gegen's Landing
and Marilyn Sobel who's at 830 Gegen's Landing. We're
within three houses and two houses of this house. We were
looking at the plans and we couldn't quite tell where the
Board of Trustees 5 October 20, 2004
extension was, whether it's on the southern face of the
house or whether it's coming out on the western face of the
house because our concern was if it's coming out on the
western face of the house towards Gegen's Landing, the
setback -- the other houses in the area do have a fair
amount of setback, so we were concerned where that
extension's going and when those steps come down from the
front porch whether it's getting closer to Gegen's Landing
once this extension is granted.
MR. BUGLION: Can I answer?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure.
MR. BUGLION: The extension, the variance is the width side,
and I was told that the steps don't come into effect of the
setback concern, and we're asking for three and-a-half foot.
The house is undersized it's a modest, 30' by 40'. It's a
seven and-a-half foot porch would give more dimension, more
attractive, and my wife keeps worrying about safety with the
four foot. So it's facing -- the house is facing Gegen's
Landing and that's the steps, where the steps are.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is it constructed now?
MR. BUGLION: The house is under construction now.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is the porch constructed?
MR. BUGLION: It's temporarily up, yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Have you seen it?
MS. FLEISCHER: Yes, we've seen the porch, again, the
concern is in keeping with the other houses in the
neighborhood, the setbacks are very deep and while we
certainly wish Mr. Buglion the best and the house does look
like it's very attractive, we just want to make sure that
with this variance being granted, it's not pushing closer
and closer and closer to the road and make the neighborhood
look cramped. And we are concerned about where the steps
are going to go because the house is very high, the first floor
is actually higher than most first floors. So with the
pitch of the stairs coming down, we're concerned where that
starts flowing towards the lot line and toward the Town land
there on the east for Gegen's Landing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: There is a comment that the work has
already been done so what you see there is probably the
extent of it.
MR. BUGLION: The stairs are accurate, it's not going to come
further.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Our concern is for the impact on the
creek. We really don't concern ourselves with the setback
to the road. The ZBA would have a final say on that if they
needed a variance or whatever.
Board of Trustees 6 October 20, 2004
MS. FLEISCHER: We're concerned with the Town strip that
abuts Gegen's Landing there, because on the other side of
the road it's been left to return more or less to its
natural state there by providing habitat to rabbits, birds
and whatnot and right now it's all dug out and we were just
hoping that that will be allowed to return to its natural
state. So thereby it flows gradually down to the wetland
easing a transition and providing habitat. That's why we
decided to ask the question now when the variance was being
given for the porch and not wait to see what would happen
with the stairs in case another variance would be needed
encroaching on the Town land.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That would be more of a zoning issue than a
environmental issue.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I don't know if you have ever seen the
survey, there was a line buffer placed by the Trustees on
that property.
MS. FLEISCHER: On the rear, we're also concerned about the
western face. That's also Town land on the west.
MR. BUGLION: I also posted a laminated picture of the house
in both directions.
MS. FLEISCHER: That's why we're here, we couldn't tell what
was going on. If you're satisfied that the environmental
issues are not connected with this extension, that's okay
with us. We just wanted to make sure that the point was
raised now and not at a future date when more building had
gone on.
MR. JOHNSTON: Mr. Buglion, was that built before you made
the application for the amendment to your permit?
MR. BUGLION: It was almost simultaneous. What I did, I
verbally walked to every department and asked them what the
chances of getting this approved because it was under
construction.
MR. JOHNSTON: Did you start to build the porch before you
made the application?
MR. BUGLION: Yes. But I'm prepared to cut it back.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Fine. Any other comments on this
application? Mr. Buglion, as described it was an
as-built, the fee becomes double, the $50 becomes doubled
because it was an as-built because you didn't go through the
process and then get the permit.
MR. BUGLION: Okay. So tomorrow I'll stop by and give a
check.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make an motion to approve the
amendment to Permit # 5938 on behalf of James Buglion to
increase the front porches from 4' to 7'6".
6
Board of Trustees 7 October 20, 2004
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES
2. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of ROBERT AND HELEN KEITH
requests an Amendment to Permit #5700 to construct
approximately 58 linear feet of rip-rap on filter cloth and
construct approximately 208 linear feet of vinyl Iow-sill
bulkhead to backfill with approximately 100 cubic yards of
clean sand fill to be planted with spartina alterniflora 12"
on center. Located: 995 Willis Creek Drive in Mattituck.
SCTM # 123-10-2
3. Eh-consultants, Inc. on behalf of PATRICK SCOLLARD
requests an Amendment to Permit # 5701 to construct
approximately 59 linear feet of rip-rap on filter cloth and
construct approximately 92 linear feet of vinyl Iow-sill
bulkhead to backfill with approximately 10 cubic yards clean
sand fill to be planted with spar~ina alterniflora 12" on
center. Located: 905 Willis Creek Drive, Mattituck.
SCTM # 123-10-3
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 2 and 3 are really one product. Jim and I
did have a conversation with Mr. Keith today, we reviewed
that in the field, I don't know if any other Board Members
saw this.
TRUSTEE KING: Yes, Peggy.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We have been out here to the site enough
times to know that there is an unusual problem out here and
that this is not something that after one site visit we
would have approved or ever considered but because of
numerous site visits, because of our familiarity with the
problem, I don't have -- if there's any other comment I
don't have a problem making a motion to approve this rather
unusual project.
TRUSTEE KING: I think it's a good project.
MR. JOHNSTON: It's been represented to me by Rob Hermann as
late as 5:00 tonight that the DEC will be sending the
revised permit any day now.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. I'll make a motion to approve
Number 2.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: As it's the same project, I'll make a
motion to approve Number 3, Patrick Scollard, an amendment
to Permit 5701.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor? ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 8 October 20, 2004
5. EDWARD J, BOYD requests the last one-year extension to
Permit 5440, as approved on October 24, 2001. Located:
3825 Robinson Road, Southold. SCTM 81-1-7.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We issued a permit, Wetland Permit to
replacement of the existing bulkhead within 18", to extend
the bulkhead 10' to the northwestern boundary, relocate the
existing float parallel to perpendicular, and we want a 10
foot nonturf buffer when the bulkhead is constructed. If we
could rewrite that description to say it says now, "after
replacement"; it should say within 30 days of replacement.
We should try to make it more specific. Because after
replacement could be 50 years.
MS. STANDISH: Within 30 days of replacement?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right. I'll make a motion to approve that
last one-year extension to Permit 5440.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
6. PAUL AND DEBRA LAMAIDA request a one-year extension to
Permit 5650 as approved on October 16, 2002. Located: 4440
Ole Jule Lane, Mattituck. SCTM 122-4-31
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh, this is that single-family dwelling
with deck, with the condition that dry wells and gutters are
installed with hay bales placed along the 50'
non-disturbance buffer, as depicted on the survey. This is
that bulkheaded lot on Ole Jule Lane. It's like sand and
dirt and a bulkhead. So I'll make a motion to approve that
one year extension.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
7. Jeff Strong on behalf of STRONG'S MARINE requests a
one-year extension to Permit 5654 as approved on November
20, 2002. Located: Camp Mineola Road, Mattituck.
SCTM: 122-9-6.2 and 122-4-44.2
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I had a chance to go down there today.
TRUSTEE KING: 5654 I think was for the new bulkhead towards
the office there, if I remember right.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We looked at this.
MS. TETRAULT: Was it put back the way you asked? Probably
may be have a split rail fence in there so it doesn't go
further in there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right. It looks pretty close, pretty well
defined.
TRUSTEE KING: The phragmites are actually growing
Board of Trustees 9 October 20, 2004
in there.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Are these the recent ones that I took?
MS. TETRAULT: No. I took them when we went out last
month.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 5654 was to remove and replace 288 linear
feet of existing timber bulkhead with vinyl and backfill
with approximately 200 cubic yards of clean sand to be
trucked in from an upland source, maintenance dredge in area
up to 20 foot off the bulkheads to five feet Iow water and
truck approximately 150 cubic yards of resultant spoils to
an approved upland site with a condition that silt retention
fencing is installed before the project begins, and that was
signed by this Board. I'll make a motion to approve the
one-year extension
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES
8. Garrett A. Strang, Architect, on behalf of JOSEPH AND
THERESE CIAMPA requests a one-year extension to Permit 5667
as issued on November 20, 2002. Located: 650 Beachwood
Lane, Southold. SCTM # 90-10-56
TRUSTEE KING: I take it there's been no changes to the
original plan, just asking for an extension for the addition
pool terrace, dock and catwalk. I'll make a motion to
approve.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
9. Garrett A. Strang, Architect on behalf of THOMAS MALONEY
requests a one-year extension to Permit #5668, as issued on
November 20, 2002. Located: 1475 Smith Drive NoAh,
Southold. SCTM # 76-2-3
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is for a permit to an addition to an
existing residence including a deck, stone terrace and wall,
catwalk which will end at the marsh with the ramp and the
float. Structure may include no more than one-third into
the water. Relocate the septic system, dry wells for roof
runoff, hay bales during construction as per stamped plans.
This is Smith Drive North, and it looks pretty standard.
Is there any comment on this? Little bungalow on Smith
Drive North. It's a rebuild. They call it an addition, it's
for a limited dock, a little gutter going up from Goose
Creek. We issued a permit two years ago, and they haven't
done anything. We were just down there two months ago, and
they haven't done anything. That is a motion; do I have a
second?
Board of Trustees 10 October 20, 2004
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Make a motion to go off the regular
meeting.
MR. HORTON: Mr. President, may I address the Board briefly?
I have another meeting I have to get to. I just want to
elaborate. For the record, i'm Josh Horton, Resident
Greenport, 210 Fifth Street.
There's been a lot of discussion regarding scallop
season opening commercial/residential. In my mind, I think
we have to take a broader view of this. I really appreciate
the hard work that the Trustees have done over the course of
my tenure as Supervisor and having participated in a lot of
that hard work and the further protection of wetlands and
natural resources. I know you're key players because I work
with you in your office on a daily basis.
The Town Board passed a resolution last night in regard
to the scallop season. In my mind, that resolution might
have been a little too specific, and I think your approach
this evening is of a broader nature and I support that
approach. In all fairness to the resource, scallops,
shellfish, eel grass, in all fairness to the resource in
giving it a chance to proliferate it's important that the
rules should faidy apply to all aspects of shellfishing. I
want to make that very clear.
I also think my thoughts on the matter represent a long
term view, a big picture view of the viability, the
possibility, my dream, my vision to see what the commercial
industry was when I was a child and years before, which is
to have a strong, viable commercial shellfish industry. I
think it's an admirable goal; I think it's something we
should shoot for; I think it's something that we should not
lose sight of. There's a balance that hangs in the mix, and
that balance is the want and desire of residents to
participate in the joy of shellfishing, and I understand
that because I have never fished commercially, I've always
done it as a resident, and that's my perspective. But in
all fairness to balance, in all fairness to equal
distribution and equal protection of the resource, I think
your approach is a broad one, I applaud it.
I want to just say over recent years the investment of
the public at large in regards to protection of the natural
resource is unprecedented. Millions of dollars, millions of
person hours in the year 2004 millions of dollars, millions
of research hours, hundreds of thousands of hours of
resources, of technical data being collected. Suffolk
10
Board of Trustees 11 October 20, 2004
County, Southold Town putting money forward; when the county
and the Town putting money forward, even in support of
Comell, that's from the taxpayer, that's from the public,
that's from you all, that's from everybody in this room,
that's from anybody who signs a check to pay the Town or
county. I think it has to be recognized. I think we have
to be cognizant of the tremendous investment the public has
made. The question we have to ask ourselves, why have they
made that investment? They have made that investment
because you have worked hard, and other elected officials
have worked hard to raise awareness about environmental
protection and protecting the resource that we once saw up
to our knees, up to our necks in the Peconic Bay and Peconic
Estuary at large.
I think it's really important to understand that there
is a new partner in this. The new partner is public at
large. The new partner is public investment, subsidy, if
you will at this point in time, subsidy of an industry. And
I think if we keep on top of our game, if we keep our eye
on the ball, we can turn that subsidy that what's now
subsidizing an industry, a small industry, no longer has to
be a subsidy because if we work hard enough and we play our
cards right, I believe that we can see the proliferation of
shellfish back to acceptable levels I think we would all be
comfortable with. I'm just asking that we all understand
that part of the conversation. It's an important one.
In regard to all this, I don't know the exact content
of your resolution this evening that you intend passing, as
Supervisor, as a resident, as a native, as an everyday
citizen, I want to propose that in regard to any further,
shellfish activity, particularly activities that have had
research monies from Cornell and the Town and county, and
I've discussed this with you, Al, and I know you're right on
board with it, and I think it's a great idea, but host a
series of public information sessions that talk about recent
data, that talk about recent updates, that talk about what
the efforts have been, talk about what the fruit of those
efforts have been and what the fruit can be down the road.
I think it's very important because this is something that
affects everybody. When I'm here representing the Town, I'm
representing every single person in this community, just as
you all are, not the farmers, not the baymen, not the
Iobstermen, not the school teachers; we're representing
everybody really when it comes down to it. I would like to
propose that over the course of the next few months, and
Cornell can take the lead on this, on this a series of
11
Board of Trustees 12 October 20, 2004
public information sessions either throughout town or in a
central location, that can talk about what the impact has
been, what's going on and what efforts are underway and what
we have to do as stakeholders what our responsibility has to
be. I think if that information is made clear, a lot of the
debate, a lot of the uncertainty and uncomfortability
surrounding the opening and closing of scallop season can be
abated, because knowledge is power, and the more we all know
the better the situation will be.
Given the fragility of the habitat, the scarcity of
consistent good seasons, it's not okay to have one good
season every now and again, I think we're working toward
consistently good seasons. And the magnitude of the
restoration efforts that are underway, many factors have to
be considered. I know you will do that. I have every bit
of faith that you will do it.
On another matter in regard to how you may all vote,
this issue has come up to me from residents I know you have
all discussed it, and this is meant with every bit of
respect and every bit of sincerity, but Trustee Poliwoda, I
believe in my heart of hearts I believe based on my
knowledge of the Town code that you should recuse yourself
from voting on whether to open or close shellfisheries in
which you may hold a permit and in which you may derive part
of your living or all of your living. I think that's
imperative, and the reason I think that's imperative is
because in public life, the appearance of propriety is as
important as propriety itself. And I just ask that you
recuse yourself in this discussion. If you need to refer to
it in Town code, it's right here in Chapter 10-6, it's
available to all of us, and if there are any further
questions as to that, do what many of us have done, ask the
Ethics Board for their completely unbiased opinion on the
matter. But I think in the interest of insuring the public
trust, particularly on an issue that millions of dollars
have been pumped into of public funding, an issue that you
are actively engaged in as part of deriving your living, I
think it's incumbent you to recuse yourself in regard to
this matter.
That being said, I appreciate your time tonight, I know
that you will make a fair, balanced and just decision, and I
hope you get out of here before midnight tonight. Thank you
very much.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thank you for your comments, Mr. Horton.
And we are considering your suggestion of meeting, actually
trying to meet next week to get people who are not only
12
Board of Trustees 13 October 20, 2004
stakeholders involved, commercial and residential, but more
importantly, people with technical experience involved. To
try to make more of a decision -- it's not only Hallock's
Bay this year, it's a possibility of Mill Creek. We might
have a scallop set there. We want to make sure we have a
sound policy based on, as you said, actual knowledge and
information based on how the town should manage its
resources.
MR. HORTON: I applaud your efforts and I have every bit of
confidence you will be successful.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We do a have a resolution. Anyone's
welcome to stay to the end of the meeting to hear it. We
don't want to hold people up. Having said that will make
a motion to go off the regular meeting.
TRUSTEE KING: So moved.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Start with the public hearings, Jim, could
you take that?
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM
THE SUFFOLK TIMES. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF.
FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESS IF POSSIBLE
COASTAL EROSION & WETLAND PERMITS
1. Bade Stageberg Cox Amhitects on behalf of MARK GORDON
requests a Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion Permit to
extend the existing balcony to north face of house and build
new deck and pool at north side of property.
Located: 63165 Route48, Greenport. SCTM 40-1-14.
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to comment on the
application?
MS. STAGEBERG: I'm Jane Stageberg. I'm here on behalf of
Mark Gordon, who has a property in Greenport, and we have
made an application to do several things to the property, to
build a deck on the north side of the house, existing house,
with an adjacent pool and then we have also proposed to
extend a balcony that currently runs on the east side of the
house, wrap it around the corner on the water side, the same
depth as a four foot deep balcony that wraps around on the
13
Board of Trustees 14 October 20, 2004
north side. We have submitted to the Town a site plan and a
large plan of the deck and pool, and also a section through
the site that shows the existing topography of that portion
of the site, and it shows the pool that requires minimal
excavation. It sits largely above the ground and would not
require footings or foundation. So we have tried to keep
the impact of what we're proposing to a minimum.
TRUSTEE KING: Are there request other comments?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: CAC approved?
TRUSTEE KING: Yes. CAC recommended approval with the
condition that dry wells are installed to contain the pool
backwash and the existing elevations are maintained. That's
the only note I was going to say, a dry well for the
backwash of the swimming pool, other than that it's
fine. I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
as submitted with the addition of the dry wells for the pool.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
WETLAND PERMIT:
2. PARKER AND BETSY DICKERSON request a Wetland Permit for
the existing fixed dock, ramp and floating dock. Located:
1485 Mill Creek Drive, Southold. SCTM 51-6-29.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to comment
on this application? I looked at this file. I know the
dock has been there since eternity. I basically grew up on
that property on that ramp. The dimensions in the file is
measures 2' by 28' and with a 14' ramp and a 5' by 16' dock;
does that sound correct?
MR. DICKERSON: Yes.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: As far as the CAC they recommend approval
of the application with some additions of existing dock and
walkways included on a survey by a licensed surveyor.
MS. TETRAULT: This is an existing dock, they're selling the
house and the new owners are requiring that they have a
Trustee permit for the dock.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Maybe when the new owners, when they
transfer the permit then ~-
MS. TETRAULT: Then we can request it then. We don't want
them to have an additional fee.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: If there are any other Board comments, any
other comments? I'll make a motion to approve the existing
dock as is, which is 2' by 28' with a 14' ramp and a 5' by
14
Board of Trustees l 5 October 20, 2004
16' foot float. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES
4. EDMUND J. BAUMANN requests a Wetland Permit to remove
trees and establish a rear property driveway for trailer and
boat storage/access and plant evergreens on the north
property line. Located: 325 Wood Lane, Peconic,
SCTM # 86-6-2.2 and 3.3
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here who would like to
speak for this application? Is there anyone here who would
like to speak against the application? Jim and I and
Heather looked at this. Do you have any questions?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I spoke to the applicant. She showed me
all the trees she planted. I didn't have a problem, it's
just a dirt driveway. She showed me the four trees to be
taken out. This was already disturbed here and these trees,
this tree here, was -- I didn't see these two, but this tree
here was -- that's trimmed almost to a stump.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: What is the purpose?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Because when they want to bring their boat
in, to just to drive around they bring it in hero and unhook
it and drive out, and in the spring they could back up and
hook up and drive over. There is all lawn and this is like
a dirt driveway through the woods hero now.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: You didn't have a problem with the fill?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That she had no explanation for it. It
looked moro like it was dug up than fill place. It
wasn't raised.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: No, it was gravelly and it appeared odd.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But in the woods if you did that, it would
look the same.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: CAC recommended approval of the
application with the condition that only the selected trees
on the attached survey are removed and the trees within 30
feet of the wetlands on the north property line east of the
wetlands should remain.
MS. TETRAULT: That's what you were saying too you wanted to
keep a buffer.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What they have now is kind of a brush pile
buffer. All along here. It's kind of like they just piled
stuff along the edge. I don't think this is accurate
because there's a bank here. There's a steep bank from the
edge of the wetland clearly delineated wetlands and a steep
bank comes up. (Discussion.)
15
Board of Trustees 16 October 20, 2004
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The problem is they've taken out all those
pine trees to get through; they have all those pine trees
planted on this side also, but making the turn here, that's
why they wanted it, make the turn here. Otherwise, if they
bring it back they're into all those white pines that they
planted and they didn't want to clear those white pines.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I didn't realize the purpose was to go
around. I thought it was just to hide them down at the end
here.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's just going to be a dirt driveway. It
seemed like a very Iow impact, Iow use.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I have to recuse myself on this one, this
is my brother-in-law's parents and they do give me cookies
at Christmas. I don't vote on this one.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to approve the
Wetland Permit to remove the trees and establish a rear
proper driveway for trailer and boat storage/access and
plant evergreens on the northern property line at 325 Wood
Lane in Peconic. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
MS. TETRAULT: Put something on the permit like not piling
brush right near the water.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No clearing, no grading.
MS. TETRAULT: Within how many feet?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Outside of that driveway area.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: No clearing and no grading outside the
driveway area.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Recuse.
5. JEFFREY VICTOR requests a Wetland Permit to construct a
4' by 35' fixed catwalk, 5' by 45' fixed dock, a 3' by 15'
seasonal ramp and 6' by 20' seasonal floating dock.
Located: 1185 Kerwin Boulevard, GreenporL SCTM #53-3-6
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in
favor of this application?
MR. VICTOR: I can clarify anything the Board wants to
know.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Sitting with the CAC they had some major
concerns with the application.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Let me read their comments. CAC
16
Board of Trustees l 7 October 20, 2004
recommended disapproval of the application because the
docking facility would have a negative impact in the
wetlands in a pristine area where there are no other
structures in the water. Those comments are similar to what
· the Trustees saw when they went out to the site, that this
is an area that is completely unbuilt. It's an area that's
fairly pristine and to put a dock in the middle of it would
cause a good deal of segmentation to the natural wildlife in
the area and the natural environment there. Any other Board
Member have any comment?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I would agree with the Conservation
Advisory Council.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ken, do you have any comment?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Yes. I took the file up there yesterday,
and actually met up with neighbors who are interested in the
file. They were shaking their heads saying it was
untouched, virgin grounds, and there isn't a docking
facility anywhere in that creek on that side. It would be a
shame to fragment that area, especially with a large
structure like this, you're looking at 130 feet of
structure.
MR. VICTOR: Would the Board feel more comfortable if it was
scaled back quite a bit?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I believe fragmentation is fragmentation
regardless of length. Still fragmenting.
MR. VICTOR: Even if we scaled back the floater and the ramp
and had the one fixed structure out to the water, do you
think that would be a little more favorable to the CAC?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Having sat on that meeting, I don't
think so. I think their feeling was it was a pristine area
and that it shouldn't be carved up. That was my
understanding.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Jim, do you have any comments?
TRUSTEE KING: No. Basically same as everybody's thinking,
it's an untouched area. I'd like to see some way to access
the area, but how you do it in a sensitive way?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I understand the guise of your whole
permit and your grant. I know the Nature Conservancy just
took over, I want to say 210 acres outside the creek in the
front, and what you want to do is teach kids about oyster
culture.
MR. VICTOR: It's a grant proposal. We're going to restore
that part of the creek.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I was thinking get in touch with the
Nature Conservancy and possibly they will lend you a couple
acres out there to plant oysters and restore the creek after
17
Board of Trustees l 8 October 20, 2004
growing them out in the bay, and if it's a show and tell you
can bring them in and say this is what we're growing, as an
alternative to restoring the creek instead of putting all
that structure and cages inside a pristine area of the
creek.
MR. VICTOR: The Trustees are also in partnership with me in
the restoration of that creek, do they feel
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: The Trustees are?
MR. VICTOR: It's a five star grant proposal, Cornell,
myself, Greenport High School, the Trustees. I thought
there was an interest from the Town.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: That could be the recommended
alternative. Cornell and the Nature Conservancy are close,
maybe you can work something out with them.
MR. VICTOR: How about something like a catwalk out to the
water be considered? The idea is just to keep activity off
the wetlands completely so there isn't any degradation to
the grasses.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'd like to close the hearing and we'll
reserve decision. We'll take into account your comments
about having some structure to try and access the water. I
make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
6. Joseph Schmitt, P.E., on behalf of JOAN SELBY requests a
Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion Permit to install a new
reinforced epoxy sheet pile seawall to replace the existing
seawall, which is collapsing. Located: 20275 Soundview
Avenue, Southold. SCTM # 51~4-8.
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here to comment on this
application?
MR. SHERMAN: Joe Schmitt regrets that he could not be here
this evening. My name is James Sherman, I'm an associate of
Mr. Schmitt's. I'm here on his behalf.
MR. JOHNSTON: Do you have authority to represent the applicant
here? How do we know that, sir?
MR. SHERMAN: I have no proof of that.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: You need to have some sort of written
acknowledgement of that.
TRUSTEE KING: Just says I authorize Joseph Smith to apply
for permits.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There's nothing to prevent this gentleman
from commenting on the application.
MR. SHERMAN: These are copies of the application.
TRUSTEE KING: For the record, the Board of Southold
18
Board of Trustees 19 October 20, 2004
Advisory Council recommended approval with the condition the
seawall is replaced in place. I believe it's going to be
replaced behind what's existing there right now?
MR. SHERMAN: Correct.
TRUSTEE KING: This is huge.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Was it posted? I went and looked the next
day.
TRUSTEE KING: It's quite a ways east going toward Town
Beach.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I see that. I didn't have the file and I
said I was up that way the next day and I said I was going
to look and I didn't find the address and I couldn't find
the posting.
TRUSTEE KING: They have this huge concrete buttress.
MR. SHERMAN: The posting was posted on a huge bimh tree
right behind the mailbox.
TRUSTEE KING: I would say the wall's three feet out of
vertical. Huge concrete buttresses against. I think it's
pretty extensive. The only question I had, there's a real
old deck up on the bluff, behind the house to the left of
the stairway, it's really going to fall over.
MR. SHERMAN: Part of the application is to rebuild that in
place.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It is?
MS. TETRAULT: It's on the --
TRUSTEE KING: It's really in bad shape. It's actually
beyond the coastal erosion line. My recommendation would be
to extend the secondary vinyl bulkhead that's up there,
extend that over to the stairs and do away with that deck
because I just can't see it working. If that vinyl bulkhead
goes right across to the east of the stairs then that's
going to save that whole bluff, right now it's really in bad
shape, and the deck is very unsafe at this time. I think
it's inappropriate to try to fudge that in like that. To
put that bulkhead across to the stairway, that's going to be
a job. You're going to access from the land around the side
of the building, do some clearing?
MR. SHERMAN: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: It's sorely needed. If there's no other
comments, I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with the stipulation that the upper retaining wall be
extended to the east to the stairway going down, the deck is
to be removed, and that's it for me. Do I have a second?
19
Board of Trustees 20 October 20, 2004
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES.
MS. STANDISH: New plan on that, right?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: New plan.
7. Leo Alessi on behalf of TED DOWD requests a Wetland
Permit to maintenance dredge the entrance of Fairhaven
Inlet. Located: Cedar Beach, 1775 Inlet Way, Southold.
SCTM 91-1-8.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in
favor of or against the application?
MR. ALESSI: My name is Leo Alessi.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's a standard request, right?
MR. ALESSI: Yes. It's the same as the one that was
approved three times.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. We've been out there numerous times.
It's a maintenance operation we have approved in the past, I
have no problems with it. That's where we always approved
it in the past, right here, which, I guess washed in faster
right there?
MR. ALESSI: The problem we had with the first area was the
DEC dredges, it disappears, so we used the secondary area as
more fruitful, and that huge area that Cape American beach
grass grows right through it. We're perfectly willing to go
with the plan, but by the way, Suffolk County is supposed to
dredge again and that's our major concern. After that we'll
have more erosion than closing the inlet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I have no problem with either disposal
site. If there's no other comment, I'll make a motion to
close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to approve the
application, this, I presume, will be under a 10 year
maintenance agreement to be dredged?
MR. AKESSI: Yes.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
8. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of ARNOLD
BARTON requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' by 20'
stairway leading to a 10' by 20' deck, a 4' by 16' stairway
leading to a 6' by 8' deck and a 4' by 16' stairway to a 6'
by 8' deck, then a 4' by 14' stairway to a 4' by 20' deck, a
4' by 4' plafform to a 4' by 8' stairway ending at the
beach. Located: 5295 Nassau Point Road, Cutchogue.
20
Board of Trustees 21 October 20, 2004
SCTM # 111-9-13.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anybody here who would like to
speak for or against this application?
MR. COSTELLO: John Costello, Costello Marine Contracting on
behalf of the application of Arnold Barton. I came in at
the 11th hour. The application was supposed to be submitted
by others and much of the job in the old stairway that was
there previously has been taken out, and by the time I got
on the site, we tried to use the elevations and the existing
vegetation to dictate exactly the design and the layout of
the stairs. He originally made a submittal of the drawing
where he thought they might have been, but they were so
deteriorated that he couldn't define it. I attempted to
define it. I found some posts, and I tried to come up with
this plan to show exactly what I thought was there. If you
visited the site you can see that getting down to the beach
was a major problem.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I was the only one who visited the site,
and I also sat in on the Conservation Advisory Council the
other night and, Al, you may want to comment when we looked
at this in the office about the platforms that they are many
and large and that was the concern of the Conservation
Advisory Council.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Generally we just like to make stairs. If
you need a landing, it would be 4' by 8'.
MR. COSTELLO: There are so many turns, and the fact of the
matter is environmentally, there is a large hump of sand
where the large deck is being proposed, there is major
sand that was trucked in at that site at that location, and
that will have to be leveled out in some degree in order to
install a stairway leveled off. if you navigated up and down
that cliff, you'll understand more why.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: That I didn't do. Conservation Advisory
Council recommends approval of the application with the
condition that the stairs are constructed with approximate
landings 4' by 4' or smaller, and there's no change in the
bluff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Normally we have allowed 4' by 8' landing
because a 10' by 20' deck is really large. I don't have a
problem with a 4' by 20' deck at the bulkhead.
MR. COSTELLO: It's a walkway because they want to
revegetate at the bulkhead line with beach grass and just
have access to the beach. Even though the plan says deck,
that is basically a 20' walkway.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Would you be willing to change it?
MR. COSTELLO: I'm not the owner of the property. Like I
21
Board of Trustees 22 October 20, 2004
say, I came in at the 11th hour, I just made the submittal
on trying to determine what had possibly preexisted. What
they did was bring in most of that fill and the retaining
walls on site, was all brought in. They lost it all one
rainstorm and they brought in a lot of fill, and what
happened they had to terrace it off because the fill was
going over top the bulkhead onto the beach. When they did
that, there is one big pile of fill at the bottom of the
retaining walls. That is the only reason that larger deck
is proposed at that site. It has to be leveled off.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Do you want to change what you have?
MR. COSTELLO: I would rather get an approval. I was
supposed to have a stairway built to the beach early on in
the year but other circumstances prevented that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can't we make it a stairway with a 4' by
8' landing instead of a 10' by 20' deck, extend the stairway
down?
MR. COSTELLO: We can, absolutely. I'd rather have some
approval so I can tell the person he can get to the beach
this next fall. But environmentally, I'm sure that it's not
doing any damage, but this is the Board that approves it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: What is your recommendation, Al, so I
get this right?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'm just going to take a quick reference
to the new code.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Decks and platforms 97-27 A, platforms
associated with stairs may not be larger than 16 square
feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There you go.
MR. JOHNSTON: 27 A6.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: A 6, thank you. 16 square feet.
MR. JOHNSTON: For each platform.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I mean, I thought the intention was a 4'
by 8', which would be a 32, 16 is a pretty small platform.
Then how about if we grant this permit -- what do they want
three platforms? How about we grant it for six platforms?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Six.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: According to the code we can't allow a 32.
We're going to give him six platforms in three locations.
The result will be three 4' by 8' platforms including the
deck at the bottom is not counting as a platform. We'll
call it a deck.
MR. JOHNSTON: Don't call it a deck. Call it a walkway.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Anyone else who would like to speak to
this?
MR. COSTELLO: What the confusion is, there was a deck of
22
Board of Trustees 23 October 20, 2004
some sort, when they built the retaining walls, they built
the retaining walls, now you need a stairway to go over to
get to the deck that was preexisting, but you can't get
there without a stairway. So that throws the whole equation
off and the code off, because if they hadn't put the
retaining walls in there, it would have been an easy thing.
You didn't need the stairway.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That code needs to be corrected.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: The revision would be on 97-27Z, number
6 to change the 16 square feet to 32 square feet.
So the hearing is closed, I have a second. All in
Favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Make a motion to approve the
application for Arnold Barton for a Wetland Permit to
construct three 4' by 8' platforms with stairways and a 4'
by 20' walkway on the top of the bulkhead. 5295 Nassau
Point Road.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The platform and the stairs going down off
the bulkhead.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: And the 4' by 4' platform and stairs
going down to the beach.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: On submission of a new plan. All in
favor? ALL AYES.
9. Proper-T Permit Services, Inc. on behalf of KATHLEEN
NEUMANN requests a Wetland Permit to renovate and expand the
existing two-story single-family frame dwelling with
additions to the living space of 1,136 plus/minus square
feet and the addition of surrounding porch spaces of 1,895
plus/minus square feet, the final structure having overall
dimensions of 64' 8" by 68' and to install a new on-site
sewage disposal system. Located: 750 East Mill Road in
Mattituck. SCTM # 107--1-1.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone that would like to speak
on this application?
MR. FITZGERALD: Yeah, Jim Fitzgerald on behalf of Mrs.
Neumann. It's pretty straightforward. It's an older house
that Mrs. Neumann would like to renovate and expand. Much
of the square footage is devoted to porches, which would be
on posts and not on an excavated foundation.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: How much wetland buffer is there? I see
wetland buffer placed on that?
MR. FITZGERALD: I don't know, I would have to ask Mr. Young
about that. I think it's shown as 100 feet from the line of
the wetlands.
23
Board of Trustees 24 October 20, 2004
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Looks like 100 feet.
MR. FITZGERALD: It's a misnomer. It should say if it's
there at all that it's the limit of the Trustees'
jurisdiction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Did you two look at this last week, Ken,
did you see it?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No, not this one.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We looked at this a couple months ago for
a dock rebuild.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I remember that, yes, we were.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Okay.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm going to recuse myself, they're my
neighbors.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We gave them the dock extension. The
house was fairly up there. It was a slope I recall, maybe
we'll have to recommend some hay bales during construction.
How steep is that Jim, maybe two rows of hay bales?
TRUSTEE KING: I think one row.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Any other comments, roof runoff, dry
wells.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Where is the septic system?
MR. FITZGERALD: Where is it now located?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
MR. FITZGERALD: I don't know. Where is it now located?
MRS. NEUMANN: It's on the side of the house.
MR. FITZGERALD: But there will be a completely new system
installed and the existing system will be abandoned
according to the Health Department requirements.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: CAC recommended approval with the
condition that hay bales were placed down prior to
construction, dry wells are installed to contain the roof
runoff, gutters and a swale is built around the creek side
of the house in order to stop the runoff. I don't know, do
we want to go as far as a swale around the house? I think
the hay bales during construction to keep things in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Did you say gutters and dry wells, we'd
just like to see that on the plan.
MR. FITZGERALD: We'll put the hay bales and the dry wells
for roof runoff on the plan.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Okay. Can I make a motion to close the
public hearing?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve the Wetland
Permit on behalf of Kathleen Neumann with the stipulation
that they put up the hay bales line during construction and
on the survey include gutters and dry wells as well as on
24
Board of Trustees 25 October 20, 2004
the house.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. Aye.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Aye.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Aye.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm recusing.
MR. JOHNSTON: Show that Mr. King recused himself.
10. Proper T. Permit services on behalf of ALEX KOUTSOUBIS
requests a Wetland Permit to construct an in-ground swimming
pool 20' by 40' with surrounding stone or concrete
grade-level patio 10' wide on each side and with a
surrounding security fence as required. Located: 1610 The
Strand, East Marion. SCTM # 30-2-64
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Any comments?
MR. FITZGERALD: I don't have anything to add to the
material that's in the application.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It's well up on top of a bluff and 30',
32' behind the top of the bluff looking at the overall
project compared to the overall amount of dirt on that
cliff, which is well-vegetated, I'll note. I don't think it
will cause any environmental damage at all. It is sloped
back towards the house. Only thing it needs dry wells for
the pool backwash.
MR. FITZGERALD: Sure.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to close the hearing
if there's no other comments on this.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make the motion to approve the
Wetland Permit on behalf Alex Koutsoubis for the swimming
pool and include the backwash dry wells for the swimming
pool. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
11. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on behalf of
MARILYN P. ANGELSON requests a Wetland Permit to construct a
approximately 4' by 88' long stairway in order to provide
access to shoreline of Long Island Sound from the top of the
bluff. The stairway will be between 4' and 6' above the
existing grade, and terminate at the bottom of the bluff
plus/minus 35 feet landward of the high water mark.
Located: 28079 County Road 48 in Southold. SCTM # 73-6-1.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I got down there I didn't see any
stakes in the ground. I went down by the vineyard puddle
5
Board of Trustees 26 October 20, 2004
after puddle, terrible. I was happy I was in a truck. I
looked down the bluff, I didn't have a problem. Any other
Board Member comments about the stairs? Straightforward
stairs. If not, I'll make a motion to close the public
hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve the Wetland
Permit on behalf of Marilyn P. Angelson for a 4' by 88' long
stairway.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES
12. Coastal Consultants, Inc. on behalf of PECONIC LAND
TRUST requests a Wetland Permit to replace in-kind/in-place
three existing weirs/wave breaks; resurface approximately
280 linear feet of existing timber bulkhead with PVC
corrugated sheathing within an existing hatchery trough;
maintenance dredge a 6' below mean Iow water to removing
approximately 140 cubic yards of clean sand from area of
approximately 700 square feet within the weir; dredge to
minus 4 mean Iow water approximately 265 cubic yards of
clean sand fill from an area of approximately 2,400 square
feet within hatchery trough; excavate/clean out an
approximate 40' long culvert connecting the hatchery trough
on the north side of the building and the lagoon on the
south side of the hatchery removing approximately 80 cubic
yards clean sand; disposal of approximately 580 cubic yards
total of clean sand dredge material upland on applicant's
property with capacity of approximately 640 cubic yards
raising grade approximately 2'; all dredging to be
undertaken twice over 10 years with disposal of the second
dredging upland on the applicant's property or in approved
upland disposal site. All dredge material is clean sand.
Replace existing Quonset Hut building with a Morton Steel or
equivalent building. Located: 10273 North Bayview Road
Extension, Southold, SCTM 79-5-20.2.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There's no one here to comment.
MS. TETRAULT: Pam Green called and said, do I need to be
there; didn't we kind of answer all your questions? And
Karen is in Italy. But they did send these new plans that
has the height of the building, this just came.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We did ask to finalize the height of the
new building to replace the Quonset Hut and to put a 10 year
maintenance thing on the dredging of the weir, which they
did. We also made it clear for the record, that this
26
Board of Trustees 27 October 20, 2004
application will be approved for the physical plant to
restore the physical plant to good condition to the owner,
in this case the Peconic Land Trust, and that any activities
on the site from an aquaculture operations would have to
receive separate permits from this Board. This permit is
not to operate. This permit is to rebuild and reconstruct
and maintain that. Since there's no one here, I'll make a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to approve the
application as amended with the condition that the derelict
boat be removed and that all the floats associated with that
boat be removed within 60 days of permit issuance.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll recuse myself from this one.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. Aye.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Aye.
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
MR. JOHNSTON: Let the record show that Trustee Poliwoda
recused himself.
13. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of EAST OF EDEN, LLC
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' by 68' set of
timber stairs/platform down bluff face to provide access
from upland to beach. Located: 1380 Sound Drive,
Greenport. SCTM # 33-3-19.25
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I took a look at this, CAC recommends
approval of the application with the condition that the
existing swale on top of the bluff be maintained. There is
a pervious walkway and the top of the bluff is replanted in
order to stop erosion. Let me show the Board, see how this
earth road, it runs here from this property. This is a good
earth road. It runs along the bluff you can easily drive a
car or truck on it. They're asking for the stairs, I'm
imagining -- this is what I visualize -- the stairs will
come to here, stop and start again on the other side.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there a cross section?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No. They go right across the road.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Table this.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I was going to recommend -- that's what I
thought that meant.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Why would you cut that access off?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It's their property. I thought of that
in the truck on the way home. If I own that property, who
are these people to walk across my property.
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Board of Trustees 28 October 20, 2004
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's useable, that road is useable?
MS. STANDISH: The adjacent property owner sent in a letter,
no objection to that. It's the subdivision.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Which neighbor?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It's a property rights issue, who are we
to say this person could use is this? Property right issues.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to close the public
hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve the stairs
down to the bluff on behalf of East of Eden as depicted.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
KRUPSKI: Make a motion to go back to the regular
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
meeting.
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
TRUSTEE
POLIWODA: Second.
KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES.
KRUPSKI: We have just one resolution.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I want to know something before we make
the resolution. Was Josh's comment public hearing?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No. Just public comments.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Personal public comments?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Personal public comments.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: He's publicly asking me to recuse
myself. So that is public comment. Why couldn't we have a
full forum of people saying, no, Josh, Kenny's a bayman, who
do you want to vote on this? Plumbers, electricians? I
don't think what he said was appropriate for this hearing.
His comments should be null and voided.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They're not part of this at all. They're
just generic comments.
TRUSTEE PQLIWODA: I don't think it was appropriate. He
came in here and gave comments and his speech regarding a
resolution that wasn't publicly--
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Generic comments just like Mrs. Jones's
comments.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: She was on our agenda. He walked out in
the middle of the crowd. Who is he to have that right? I'm
baffled on the recusation he's asking for.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's a generic comment. Anyone could
have said anything during the whole meeting. We wouldn't
have shut anyone down.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Sounds like he had prior knowledge of our
resolution, which obviously he did, where the rest of the
public don't have any idea what your resolution is.
Probably a number of baymen rigged up, ready to go tomorrow.
28
Board of Trustees 29 October 20, 2004
MR. JOHNSTON: Ken, for the record he was making reference
to the Town Board meeting resolution 773 where it says
request that the Town Board of the Trustees reconsider
resolution, et cetera, et cetera, October 15th at their
public meeting, October 20th; did you see that?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No.
MR. JOHNSTON: It's my understanding, based on three of the
Councilmen telling me that they sent a resolution over to
us, which Lauren and you and I and anyone else has not seen
yet, but they supposedly had a resolution that we were to
reconsider the decisions, and that's why Edwards was here,
for the record, he was going to make a comment too, but
obviously --
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: About?
MR. JOHNSTON: Asking that we consider their resolution
yesterday - "their" meaning the Town Board's resolution --
that we consider our prior resolutions. That's why they
were here.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Which is appropriate.
MR. JOHNSTON: Which is just as appropriate if we go or any
other person in the public go to a Town Board meeting.
Legally I have no problem with any citizen making any
comment they want to here.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: As long as you think it's legal. Because
I haven't seen the resolution yet. It's still sitting
there.
MR. JOHNSTON: I have not seen what the Town Board did.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Josh has seen the resolution before the
Trustees. I haven't seen it. I'm amazed that he's seen it
before I've seen it, and it's our resolution.
MR. JOHNSTON: To the best of my knowledge, he has not seen
this resolution. As a matter of fact, I guarantee he hasn't
seen it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: What is the new science information, I'm
not in favor of this at all. He's asking me to recuse
myself. Al, you're telling me one thing the other day, now
you're throwing new science information that cries out you
should be closed. You're one way two days ago now you're
going this way today.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I was uncomfortable from the beginning on
Wednesday, when we started to discuss it. Because I didn't
feel we had enough information to make a resolution then.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: You know as well as I do there's science
information there that says scallop dredging is not
environmental damaging.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It's all bits and pieces of discussion.
29
Board of Trustees 30 October 20, 2004
We have to have it in writing in front of us and sit down
and have dialogue on it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Based on new scientific information,
you're saying scallop season should be closed.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: No. We're saying it should be closed
because we have information we have to evaluate.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: That's the reason we opened it. How can
you say it's open one day because of science information,
and the next day you turn around and say --
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: He's writing it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No, we all rescinded the last motion based
on new science information. We're almost foolish. You got
guys working out there making a living, and they're going to
look at this and say where did this all come from, this is
two days ago, now this is last night, and the guys are
rigged up, they're leaving five, six in the morning
heading up there. Six in the morning they're going to be up
there. They're going to say why is this closed.
MS. TETRAULT: Give them a day, don't close it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Tell you right now big.
MR. JOHNSTON: You say to Dezinkowski, it's closed as of
today. We're not going to give them a violation or penalty.
Peggy, if there was a school accident today in front of your
school, and there was no speed limit, we would enact a speed
limit right this minute, and the police would give them a
day or two before they start giving tickets.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I agree giving them a transition.
MR. JOHNSTON: But the transition isn't in the changing of
the rule, it's in the enforcement.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You lost me, does that mean give them a
day or not?
MR. JOHNSTON: No day. Dezinkowski wouldn't give any
summonses for people who went out scalloping.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I say give them a day. Let them scallop
tomorrow.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Give them until Sunday.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It's as of the 21st or as of the 22nd?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: You guys have to realize the outlook on
the week's weather. These guys set pots. I know for a fact
these guys threw dredges because it's going to be windy for
the next four days, they can't pull pots. They're running
up there trying to make a day's pay. They're not harming
anything.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Give them at least tomorrow.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: They're not harming anything. It blows
my mind you're saying based on new marine science
30
Board of Trustees 31 October 20, 2004
information. Just two days ago we said based on new science
information we're going to open it, which is the fact, this
is factual; this is political.
TRUSTEE KING: That's what it's going to turn into.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We already had the facts.
TRUSTEE KING: I sat on the Marine Resource Council for 10
years. That's a council that's made up of 14 members equal
parts, recreational and commercial. And for 10 years I
watched a feud of commercial people fighting with the
recreational people for a resource. And every fight was won
by the recreational people.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: This disgusts me, this is all lies.
TRUSTEE KING: If this keeps accelerating, that's exactly
what's going to happen, you'll be right out of business. I
think we should shut this down now and take a look at it.
If we can re-open it, we open it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We're going to look foolish again.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: All we're asking for is time to look at
the information.
TRUSTEE KING: I've got serious reservation from the
get-go. My question to Brown, if you look at our shellfish
code 77-204, we were given the authority to set the season.
MR. JOHNSTON: Only the dates not the way.
TRUSTEE KING: In 1994, by law, it's a halfa bushel per
day, Section B; and Section C says, during the commercial
scallop season, scallops may be taken from the Town waters
with a dredge or a scrape having an opening not more than
36" and so forth. I don't think we ever had the authority
to prohibit dredging.
MR. JOHNSTON: I don't either.
TRUSTEE KING: We don't have the authority to say you can't
go in there and dredge. That's in the Town code. We only
have the power to set the season.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: 50, 60 years these guys have been doing
this.
TRUSTEE KING: Until this is all resolved, I say, let's just
stop because if the guys go in there and keep dredging, the
phone's going to be ringing off the hook. It's going to be
completely political.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Why is that?
TRUSTEE KING: Because I know people. I know the men. They
want those scallops and they will think of every excuse,
every reason why you shouldn't go in there. If it means
calling assemblymen, senators, they will do it. I'm telling
you right now, you get the ax.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Who gets the ax?
31
Board of Trustees 32
October 20, 2004
TRUSTEE KING: The commercial man. You get the ax every
time you get in a contest with these recreational people.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: That's why people vote people like me in.
It's because they want to see things status quo. They don't
want to see things go that way.
TRUSTEE KING: This has never come up in this kind of
proportion, and it's going to get worse.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: After this one it will. Two days ago we
had one that said the opposite. Now what, go back and show
everybody this? And they're going to look at this and go
these guys are making a living, they expect to make $100,
$200 on the hardest days when it's windy. They're trying to
make a living up there.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: What's the difference whether we close
it for a week and let's say after looking at all the
information we have, after a week we decide to open it. Why
is that a detriment?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Because then we start looking foolish.
TRUSTEE KING: We already look foolish.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: What is the problem for them a week
later?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Three, four days from now, there are
actually guys that actually went down to their boats and put
their dredgers on because it's too windy to pull pots. The
waves are six feet tall. They can run up there until at
least Saturday when the winds calm down, each day.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: And that won't happen next week?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: If you make this motion tonight, they're
out of work. They're going to sit on the docks and get so
ticked off, they're going to sit in that parking lot and
they're going to ask me why is that closed.
TRUSTEE KING: How many people are you talking about?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Four on my dock alone with dredges.
TRUSTEE KING: Most we're talking a dozen people?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Yes, but the reason --
TRUSTEE KING: Look at the numbers. You got a dozen people,
how many people are in the SPAT program? This is what I'm
telling you, this is what this turns into.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Do you know most of those SPAT people are
for hydraulic dredging. I fought them on that issue in
Suffolk County Legislature. Those people are for hydraulic
dredging. They want to strip mine the land out in the bay.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Make a motion whereas based on new marine
science information now available it was resolved that the
Southold Town Board of Trustees close all scallop harvesting
32
Board of Trustees 33 October 20, 2004
as of midnight Thursday, October 21,2004, with condition of
reconsidering this closure on this season's scallop season
after review by this Board and Trustee staff of all relevant
information regarding juvenile scallop population and eel
grass condition and other relevant information.
MS. TETRAULT: Then get some information in writing from
each of these people, put it together and read it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor? Ken?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No.
TRUSTEE DrCKERSON: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And I vote yes.
MR. JOHNSTON: Foster is absent. For the record, Ken,
you're voting no or recusing yourself?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I think that's preposterous, I'm not
recusing myself. I think it's absolutely preposterous, he
wants me to recuse myself as a bayman. What does he want
electricians to come up here and say let's decide the
scallop season?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Do we want a time frame for getting this
information, making a decision?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Make the decision before November 1st.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I think if Mr. Horton was wise, he could ask
five baymen what they decide on how the scallop season
should be run since they're the ones making a living on it
and working on the water. And they care about the
environment probably more than any one of us plus anybody in the
Town.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'll take everyone's comment. We should
make a decision by November 1st?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You have information. Ken said there's
information on dredging all over the place.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: In the state DEC. Debbie Barnes' group,
they have documentation on scallop dredge as well as
masters.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's all we need.
MS. TETRAULT: Master's degrees.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Let's get everything.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Let's not reinvent the wheel. Let's not
do a study. Let's use what's available.
TRUSTEE KING: We need to find out as far as our authority
on whether it's dredged or not. If it's not our authority
it's a Town Board issue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We can just close it or just open it.
TRUSTEE KING: My feeling is we don't have the authority to
33
Board of Trustees 34 October 20, 2004
mandate the method.
MR. JOHNSTON: I agree with you Jim, I'm sorry I missed it.
TRUSTEE KING: Al, you remember last year or the year before
we tried to limit the amount a recreational harvest per
vessel, remember it was half bushel per person, and we
wanted to make it one bushel for the boat because they were
abusing it? And what happened when it went to the Town
Board meeting?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Town Board brushed us off.
TRUSTEE KING: We got destroyed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I was sitting here and the Town Board
ignored me.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: For the record, Ken Poliwoda is not
scalloping in the year 2004 due to a herniated disk as well
as an inflamed L-5 disk. So I will not benefit from this
decision one dollar. Period.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: For the record, no bayman has ever given
me a scallop. Make a motion to close the meeting.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES.
(Time ended: 9:15 p.m.)
34