HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-08/19/2004 Hearing
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TO\'lN OF SOUTHOLD
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
STATE OF NEW YORE
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SOU THO L D
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Southold Town Hall
53095 Main Road
Southold, New York
(
August 19, 2004
9:00 a.m.
Board Members Present
RUTH OLIVA, Chairwoman
VINCENT ORLANDO, Vice Chairman
JAMES DINIZIO, Board Member
LYDIA TORTORA, Board Member
LINDA KOI'/ALSKI, Board Secretary
þ,bsent: Board Member Gerard Goehringer
, ORIGINAL
COURT REPORTING AND TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE '(31) 8'8-3047
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CHAIRI^lOI'LI\.N OLIVA, Our first public
hearing is for Kevin and Susan Ferrell f))r an
c¡bo'.'e-ground pool on their deck. Is there an,'one
here who would like to speak for or against this
application?
BOARD SECY. KOWALSKI, Thank you for
submitting the affidavits.
tv1S. MESIANO: Yes. Catherine Ivlesiano on
behalf of the applicants. We're here today
J~ec:ause the Board has seen fit to re-open the
hearing at the request of the neighbors, and I
would like to make a few statements. First of
311, I think we need to focus on the purpose of
Gur being here, and the reason that we are before
this Board is because the Building Department
denied our application for replacement of an
existing deck and a deck extension within which a
pool was to 1)e built. Nothing in the cede or our
disappro\ral raises the issue of whether or llot an
in-groulld or above-ground pool is mandated or is
I1ecessary. The issue of the pOGl has bee!l raised
bj' the neighbors. That matcer l.S a civil matt"T
that should not be taken up bj' this Board as was
stated in an earlier hearing. Covenants alld
restrictions, this Board doesn't have n~ither the
obligation or the right to enforce private
¡:ovenants and the issues that are arising deal
primarily with the pool issue; chat's a matter for
the llomeowners association and the applicants.
The delay in this application, simply put, means
that the Ferrells can't replace the exiscing deck
that is, at this point, unsafe. They'\re found
fraln their engineer's reports that it was
improperly constructed in the be'3inning. So the
deck cannoc be replaced at this point, even though
it is existing, was there at the time the house
was built. They ha\'e to come to the Board to
reconstruct it because of the proximit~r to the
bluff.
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As far as the extension goes, we're asking
for a setback to allow an 85 fooc setback from the
bluff to the extension of the deck, wit11in wtlich a
['001 is proposed to l)e constructed.
Now, Mr. and Mrs. Ferrell and I have gone
over various options and there are different wa~rs
C]1at a pool can be constructed. We ha\re attempted
to have more and better data for you at this
llearing, but because of tile sch~duling of OUY
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surve:/or and our engineer I \'le í,·vere unabl.-:: to bring
all the data togecher. What I would request is
thac che Board, upon the conclusion of tada~'s
meeLing, again close this hearing tCt an~r "I,'-erbal c,r
oral testimony, reserving the right for any
written testimon)', of course, and we would like to
submit to the Board our engineered plans. I
understand although the pool is not something chat
',J~ require this Board's approval for p-2r se, ic's
just the setback, thac we're here for, that we
~ecognizE the concern of the Board and the concern
of Soil and Water, and the North Fork
Environmental Council and the neighbors, et
c~teraf to any risk to the bluff as a ~esult of
an~r acti\'ity on the bluff. Therefore, what we are
planning to provide to the Board is an engineered
design chac would create a plan that would assure
che safety of the bluff to the extent that is
possible and practical. I krlow that earlier it
was stated that a decision was being written and
tllat corlditions were to be imposed, and 1t was
alluded co that those condicions percained to
·:;Jlltainment of the water from the pool in the
e~rent of that catastrophic occasion in which
11,000 gallons of water would go spurting forch;
that I s a highly unlikel~r ocC'ury,:=:nce f and W'2 w.:)uld
like to have the opportunity, than racher chan
hac..re a la~iperson impose what might seem like
reasonable covenants or conditions, or conditions
that seem co be the right thing, we would rather
ha'Je the experts in thac field pro\'ide to the
Board a plan that is workable, reasonable,
feasible and practical. Therefore, we WGuld like
t,~ request the Board focus on tlle reason why we're
llere, which is the request for a variance for a
reduced setback from the bluff. The pool issue is
D¡)t a matter Eor tllis Board to focus cn because
that is not the essence of the disapproval from
the Building Deparcment. Yes, we incend co
~onstruct a pool. Tllere are \rariations in the
design that we discussed, I would be happ~ to give
..,.TOU the copies of the Tvarious c,ptions that WE: have
iraWD up to address the various concerns of the
neighborhood; if the Board would like to have
chose, I'm prepared to giTvre them to you now. But
W~ would like the Board to focus orl the issue,
which is the setback to the bluff arld 31low us to
present an engineered plan to tIle Board for :'DUY
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August 19, :Ct04
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consideratic,n.
CK~IP.\^lOMAN OLIVA, I understand that even
though our jurisdiction does nc,t l'eall,' "ppl,' to
the pool, may I just ask why the pool ,~ould not be
placed in ground in the front ¡'ard?
HS. MESIANO: In-ground in the front ¡'ard
is highly impractical because much of the front
~'3rd is paved with the drivewa~r. There is a lot
of rolling topography in the front yard. The
front ~rard is heavil~' treed. Tlle septic system is
in the f~ont yard. It would be highly lmpractical
to put this pool in the front yard. It would be
unattractive at best. Another covenant that
restricts the placement of hedges would prohibit
us from planting to be able to conceal the pool
for privacy from our perspective, and from the
sight from others' perspecti\'es. The frollt ~rard
lS impractical, as far as placillg the swimming
pool there really isn't a reasonable place to put
the pool.
CHAIRI,OMAN OLIVA, Thank ,·OU. Vincent or
LTimmy, do ~/ou ha~Je an';,' questions of Cath~,'?
BOARD MEr1BER DINIZIC,: I guess just a
'-~?()uple. Gne would be f ar.~ ~.l0u saying that tht?
reason why you didn't put it in the fr'::Jnt is
because y~u're not allowed to put hedges?
[VIS. MESIANO: No, I didn't say that tlut's
the reason, that/s a contributing factor. The
reasc)n we have not proposed the pool in the frollt
"lard is because the topograph'/ of the front yard
is not conducive to the installation of tIle pool.
The fact that the front ,'ard has an extenSL'Ie
drivewa~r and parking area is not conducive to
constructing a pool in the front. The septic
system is in the front yard. The front yard is
heavi ly ,.cegetated. There's lots of mature trees.
All of those reasons combined constitut~ the
reason fc¡r us not wanting to put a pool In the
front ~~rd. Coupled with the fact that if there
were a pool in tile front yard, it would be clearly
~.risible from the road because tile onl~c area that
is somewhat open, even Lhough it's hea,.cil'../ \'"f::"..=,ded,
is ~,risible from Lhe road. Therefore, f~:::'r tIle
privacy aspect, you'd want to ha~re fencillg or
lledges La conceal the pool. The covenallts
prohibit the planting of hedges. So if we're
faced with this issue of covenants and this
5elecLi~re enforcement of covenallts, would then not
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Þ.ugust 1'::,', 2004
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the homeowners association object to the planting
·:::,f hedges to conceal the pacl. So you ,:'an I t ha~.re
It botll wa~·s. We found tllat since ~rou're tal]~irlg
about covenants, there llas been an ong01ng
practice of selective enforcemellt of the
~cvenants. We don't want to take the risk of
put t ing a pool in the front '/ard - - if it were
practical, which it is not -- and then being
i~()nfronted with the f~ct that well now we can't
Jbscure it from view and maintain privac~r. If you
':isiced che site, you would see that the front
~''JTd is highly impracti,=al for placement of a
;'3'v\!imming pool, have to wipe out most of the trees.
It just is an impractical location, and it would
not be enjoyable. It would not be aesthetically
~leasing. Were I a neighbor, were I li~ing in
tInt neighborhood, I would object to ha'.'ing the
pool 1n the front yard because I think ic would be
UI1Sightl~·. So, is that the reason, no. It's a
contribucing factor.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZID: But it wasn't ,,'our
c,riginal reason why.
r,]s. f'1ESIANO: No. vie talked abcuc the
options when we first met to discuss tllis issu~,
and one of the options is putting a swimming peel
u, the fronc yard, and we looked at the front yard
a.nd said, yes, but where would '{OU put it? ~rTGu'd
have to dig up che driveway. The septic system's
here; chat area has a steep glade; thac area is
11eavil~' vegetated. There is not a practical place
Ln the front yard to put a swimming pool withotlt
d~stroying the integrit)7 and the aesthetic nat11re
of the front yard.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I think chat's all
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CHAIRI'IOMAN OLIVA, Vin::enc?
BOARD l"IEf1BER ,ORLANDO: I'll comment.
I'·IS. !"IESIANO: Please.
BOARD r1Er,mER ORLANDO: I agree ,-Ii th ye,u,
the Zoning Board does not have the power- t,~,
enforce covenants and restrictions. And I also
~gree with you that the varian2~ is insignifi,:ant
:-\.nd T,rerO"" minor, but ha~.re ~/ou thou'Jht rJr r:>=,nsidel-ed
for harmony in the community about takiEg the pocl
wllere it is now and just putting it right dOWll and
then putting a grade deck around it?
¡',IS. I'IESIANO: Yes.
BOARD I1Er1BER ORLANDO: Is that an optl,::n
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t.hen:
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I'IS. I'IESIANO: '{es. ¡'Ie ha'.'e considered and
we are exploring those options t.o drop t.llE pool
down. One of the problems that we havE is that
~ou can't come too close to the foundation when
~'c,u' l"e d'Jing major exC'a~Ja.tion. .so we ha,:re to get
that balance as to how clc,se can we com¿ tD the
foundation, how great does the exca~ation need to
be, but we're working on a plan where Wç T"vould
drop the pool so you would step down from the
existing deck to a lower le':el \·¡here it mighc nc,t
be submerged 100 percent beneath the grc¡de --
BOARD ME~1BER ORLANDO: But the rn"jorit,'
would be below ground?
I·IS. MESIANO: Significant, l'es. You kn,~'w,
a matter of senlantics is it abo\re ground? Well,
c¡nything above ground is above ground. Well, if
that statement holds true because that statement
was made at a prior hearing, tlleD anythillg that is
below ground is in-ground and ~res
¡;,::JÞ,RD I~E[V¡BER ORLAND'J, You are explollng
that option'?
HS. !·1ESIANO: He are explorlng tlHt
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BOARD MEMBER ORLAl'm:" But you still n¿'ed
variances for the setbacks but
MS. ME.sI~~O: Yes. And we're exploring
tllat because aestheticall~r it would be pleasing
from our perspective because I chink our
pErspecti~e counts somewhat in this equation.
It's a practical solucion. I think it's a
reasonable method for resolving che problem and
that's what we're exploring. But again, IJecause
\'JE couldn't get our SUr\re"".lor and our enginsel~
bècause of their work and 'Iaeation schedules, W~
':ould!l't coordinate them and present YGU with a
final engineered plan. That f S VJhy I'm asking for
the ability to be able to providéc that tc, l'C,u, but
th~t is primaril::, t:he plan chat '.ve' re exploring
be,.::::au.::~e l t makes the most SE:ns~. I krF)1¡J we' ~/e: Slot
lets of argumencs goir1g on, but I'd lik~ to be
practical, and that's a practical solutioll to
s0t!1ething that shouldn't be a big problem.
BOARD MEr·1BER ORLANDO, I think i C' s a fair
c:'Jmprcmise. I can't speak for the communi t:',
speaking for myself.
I'·IS. MESV\.NO: Yes. I think it's ,-'er,'
récasonable, and I suggested chat: to the Ferrells,
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;1.ugust 19, 200.J:
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and the'!, \"rere very recept i ve to the idèa. Þ.nd
[hat's che area we're going with our engineering
b~cause i t solves a lot c,f th~ issues if you start
talking about the hypothetic"ls and ha'.-ing- an
11,000 gallon abo\re-ground fJool spontane0usl~r
~YUpt. Well, if it's significantly below grc,u11d,
as YCH.1 knew beLng ir... the b'...lsia2ss that. ~/:J',J' r'~ ~L;:"l,
it's going to be contained beneath the ,~rade
before anything sinks its level. There would be
IL'::" delu,ge runoff, and we wouldn't be lc,'",::JJç:ing 3.t
~0m~0ne imposing a condition f~r containment çf
11,000 gallons, which is something that is not a
~~asGnable solution, if you will, to the problem.
So the compromise is being strongly considered.
BOARD r\1E~/1BER ORLAiJ8C: :;rea.t. So c,..;e' 11
see what. the oppositi,=,n has to say. Th?tnk '{,:::,u.
CHAIP.\^lOMAN OLIVA: Is there someone else
who would like co speak fer or agalnsc cnis
applicat.icn?
I'IS. CAPPOLIlTO: Good morning. Louis,,,,
~appolino, I'm the lady to the east. I addressed
3 letter to you a couple of weeks ago about some
~0rrections about a written letter that was sent
ce· ~'ou, 31ld I assume you recei~re(j it.
CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Yes.
['15. CAPPOLINO: All righc. That will be
in this package here (indicacing¡. This was
written prior to what this yourlg lad}' was sa~'lrlg,
CHAIRI'/OMAJ'J OLIVA: I understand.
MS. CAPPOLINú: Okay.
¡'Miss Oli\'a and I~embersl I would like to
~hank Y01~ for your time and pati~nce with reg3rds
tG this nlatter. My husban(j and I belie\r~ it is
important for us to continue our opposition tG tIle
installation of this struccure alld proposal fer ¿~
T:~riance. Doris McGreevel' and I took the
opportunity to present our COllcerns about tIlls
re(Illest to our neighbors, those people who OWll
homes on the bluff. The response was in,':'l>=dibl:/
c)v"::~rwhelming against the grant ins of this
variance. The homeowners chat live on the bluff
"~tnd ha'.re pools, hai..T2 installed underground pC,101.s,
and unanirnously agreed to the potential disaster
t.hat :=~ould occur from ,gushing \'létter fliJwin,.J fr~")m
3.11 abG"':,ri~-grGund pool, George Pe,:::"k was an example
,~f variallces granced withouc thoughc and
appreciaticL of what could Gccur, His bluff is a
,iisaster and the stress he has endured is not a
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healthy situation. We do not want to bs in a
similar situation. I am sure Mrs. McGreeve~T will
affirm what I have said as well as pro~iding
further documents. 1'-1',/ pre\rious statements are
being resubmitted as well as pictures so that you
'~an well understand better our concerns about
t'':'Ipography also. There are other options 0l>,=:n t·::::;,
Mr. and Mrs. Ferrell, the same options that the
neighbors on the bluff had when they installsd
underground pools.
"This request for variance has caused many
problems for the Ferrells, howe',Ter we dldn't
create this situation. We wallt to li\re in peace
without the worry of losing more property to the
ra~ages of water, including the chlorinated t~~e.lt
And I will submit this with the pictures
¡handing') .
CHAIR\;10MAN OLI1JÞ,: Thank you \'er," much.
["'11-. r'IcGre¿vey?
¡'IR. 1'1CGREEVEY, I ha'/e a preparsd
statement which I'll read, so we won't IJE gOlng on
-.1.nd c,n 'v"li tll this. But I must comment f lrst (>11
vJhat the expediter said. She ~tJants to do again
what she did the last time. Close these hearings
to all further public input but l'st continue tD
furnish you with documentation from engineers,
,~rchitects, from whatever. I beg you t~J close
this hearing here and now after you hav~ heard,
make ~'our decision. Butr if }"OU want to accept
d\JCUmelltation, then postpone this hearing and
~eopen it because that/s not fair, that's what I
11a\'e to say to comment on that. As far as
s~3insers knowing about that bluff, I have been
11~aT,rily invol\red with Le,ng Island Sound sinc~ the
late '80s, heavil~r involved, and I think seme of
','GU know that. Thank ]'ou. ¡,Tow I'll rsad m]'
statement.
tiThe decision b}" the Zoning Board of
hppeals to continue the dialogue concerning a
varic¡nce for an above-ground pool on the bluffs of
Mattituck leaves me to examine the file In decail
and I haTIe ",rery poignant questions regarding
(:~rtaill issues. \1) Have ele~ations as promised
,:[16 17-04 e'ler been furnished? 121 Wllere ar¿ the
11onjurisdiction letters from DEC and the Trustees
that were mentioned? (3) As tile C of 0 does not
list the existing deck S'l foot from th~ top of t:he
bluff, is it chen considered ~~nconformlng? If
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chis is the case, then by grancing this ~ariance,
3re you llot cllanging its status from nOllconforming
tCI conforming? (4) In a letter frGm Hr. Ferl'ell
dated July 1, 2004/ he states that the inner liner
lS 22 millimeters width; what does that mean ~s
(Joe inch equals 25.40 millimeters, I re~ll~' ,joubt
the vin~,'l liner is one inch thir~'k. ¡' 5:i Nc vlhere
did I said see mention of the phrase
inkind:inplace, which is customary when rebuilding
s~Jmeplace. 1,6) This is without except icn a
self-created difficulty. Mr. Ferrell has m~re
th~n six-tenths of all acre in front of Ilis home.
There's plenty of room to build an in-ground peel
llke everyone else on the bluff. 171 These bluffs
ar~ unique. They exist in onl~r three places 011
the f~ce of the earth.
"It takes qui te a whi Ie to learn h,=,\'] the~'
react to different situations boch natural aŒi
nEin-made. J'v1ost I if not all f of the blunders made
~re made b~' people new to the area who have llOt
lEtd the time to learn what can and cannet b~ done,
~n above-ground pool in a bluff area is a disaster
waiting to happerl. Hurricanes alld nor'easters
,:,c'c'ur wi th hammer blows in the area. I f chis
proposed above-ground pool ever bursts, it would
eelld 11,500 gallons of water, that's 48 tons,
=ascading over the bluff face and down the gull~
cc¡rr~ing away everything in its path. It would be
a true disaster. This proposal lacks the supporc
~',f just about everyone li"!.ring on the bluff from
Bailey's Beach Road to the end::;f Sound".'iew ,".",'enue
in Mattituck. Colleccively they signed a petition
chat the ZBA should have on file.
11191 It is an unwise idea to CDnstruct an
3bo\'e-ground pool onl~' 85 foot from the crest of
tlle bluff. Common sense needs to be used when
jealing with environmentall~7 sensiti'TE ~reas such
as this." I thank you.
CHAIP.Wor~AN OL IVA: Thank l'ou,
Mr. McGree\rey. Is there someone else who would
like to speak? Yes, Mrs. McGreevEY?
MRS. MCGREEVEY: I have a letter I would
llke tc read to you as well as r~spond co some of
the statements made. First I'll read the letter.
"Dear Miss Oliva and Board, as neighb0YS
of Mr. aŒd Mrs. Ferrell, we will be direccl~
affecced by che addition of an above-ground po~l
placed less than 100 foot from the top of the
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sound bluff.
"This proposal lacks our supporc for a few
important reasons. Firstl~', we reside in all
extremely fragile bluff area that is subjecc to
extreme weather conditions. Ha\ring an
c¡bove-ground pool with a potential of bursting
~llowirlg 11,500 gallons of water- to cas~ade off
tIle cliff or down our assGciatioll prope~t~rl
dEstrG~ring our path arId stairs to the beach, IS
llct far from reality since extreme weat]1er
,:-'cJndicicns have caused much damage ce, the cliffs
in the past.
!fOur family has lived in this area since
the 1950s, and we ha'12 invested much time and work
[11aintaining our environment for future generatiollS
tc, enJoy. It's important to respect GU~
en"'.rironm"='l1t, and we feel "Ileri' strongl~/ that this
".rarlance, if appl"o"l/ed, will create negal:i"l,re
result.
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"It's admirable chat the Southold Town has
instituted provisions in our code to pr,~tect our
slFJreline. They are necessar-:.: ,:()des and. need full
care and consideration when altering them.
IISecondly, it was mentioned at une of the
work sessions that this above-ground pool would
,~d(:l to the properTy \'alw= of the house. I ha'/e
¡nade an inquir'l at the assessor's offic~ in
~outhold and spoke to Mr. ScOCt Russell. He
informed he that he c:ouldn' t remember wh¿n he last
a2sessed an above-ground pool in Mattituck;
tl,::,we'..-er, if he did assess it, It would not be
~ralued near as much as an in-ground pacl since
abo\re-ground pools do not have longevity. The
~ssessment will be minimal.
"Lastly, chis above-ground pool would
d13nge the characcer of che neighborhood. The
~8titioll that was sent from the residents along
che bluff chat support the community' disappl'v.'al
rJ£ this ~rariance has been sent t,~ the ZBA and
should be in ~rour possession. I!
\'Ie would be happy to cake ~jr. and ['·1L3.
Ferrell tc visit their neighbors homes co see the
.-c;l~gant in-ground pODls in 'Jur area. ':~tld I'd like
to say that when we went around to the different
f,eople in the area, one person in particular
stands out in my mind and because they recently
113.d a p\:Jc,l put in in the front e:,f their l1ome,
in-r'::¡Tound, that's I'JIr. and I\llrs. Le\ry, sc:, ,;r()u m,::l-:'"
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¡"..Jant tG go back and check. But she made sc,rne
interesting points. She said, first of all, she
wGuldn1t want to spoil the view of the Sound witll
tllis concrete thing facing the Sound an~~a~r
L,ecause the natural view is so much more
~'icturesque. But anyway, she put her p0Gl en tile
side of the house and it happens to be ~ery
beauciful. Now, I can g'J on and tell :.,',~;u the
D~ckingers have a pool in the front of their
llouse. The Stritchlers have a pool in the front,
meaning road side, the Landaus have a pool in tile
f~ont on the road side -- I'm just doing tllis from
m"=:mol·~r. Those are spEcific examples and I think
l-ight. now the Rosinis are in the process i.)f
~utting a pool in the front area on the road
side in their house. I'm not sure, but I see that
it looks like they're planning such a project.
These things, thac's che pactern chat we
11ave lived with. I also wanted to say a few
things concerning the expediter's points. Slle
says this is selecti"l.re with thE: C and Es, that's
rl,~t the case. If you make statements like that,
substantiate it. Don't just make allegations like
that. It should be just not spoken and then
:iropped because that leaves people to thin]{ tlle
'....Jr,:=.ng thing.
The other ching Vias, the trees in tile
front of their home, the~' have a perfect place 1n
t.l1e front. They have .6 acres 1n the front and
'..:eu d,::,n' t need bushes, ;/ou don't need h-s-dge lines
IJ2CaUSe it's hea~Tily treed anywa)·, and it's right
alongside a walkway, so it has a lot of trees
there an',.,T¡,..¡ay and bushes a.nd sc) forth.
JLlSt to finish this up, I tllink we've s~id
It dll. I appreciate your time with this. _'.nd I
hope you come to an amicable decision, thank ~·GU.
BOARD r-lEl·mER ":JRLANDO: He-s. I'Ic':;l~ee;:e,',
maybE: ~r...)u can comment because no one e18.e has
"~:.:.=mlmented in ~/our communit)'T, vihat is YOUL feE:llngs
towards putting an in-ground pool in the place it
18 110W, the location?
['-IRS. r~CGREEVEY: Knowinc¡ my ll'ei,c¡hl:xns ,,,II
al(~ng the bluff for a long while, most of tll~
people, and this is o~Ter time, usuall~· if there's
a place in che front of the homE and it is
~~railable, that's choice number one, and I tl1i1lk
~',:)U can reT~riew the past variances f,::.r that.
CHAIRWOMAN I:=:'LIVA: Ar¿ there pr":'ì'Jls;:-'
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[-'IES. MCGREE\.lEY: There aTt:': tWG I there are
two on the bluff side and the reason -- and this
is a personal reason I think -- chat they came up
with is they have no room on the front.
BOARD MEr-mER ORLlù'JDO: The quescion '",as,
wllat is your feeling if they put it in-ground in
tIle place it is now?
HRS. ~1CGP.EEVEY: If it's in - ground and
tucked in and safe, I have ]10 prGblem wittl th,~t.
I l-eall,' don't.
CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Thc¡nk vou.
BOÞ,RD MEl'mER ORLPù'JDO: Thank you.
CHÞ,IRWor1AN OLIVÞ,: Is there an,'body else
who would like to speak for or against this
application? Mrs. Mesiano, do you have anything
else?
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[,IS. MESIAl')O: Yes, with respecc to
[1r. McGreeve}T's comment I wasn't suggesciIlg tllat
the Board should close the hearing and ;~,nl~' accept
information from us. I was suggesting that the
hearing be closed to verbatim test:imon~", and that
eillce we have not been able to reconcile our
~n'Jineer and ,:Jur sur']eyor, we would like to gi\"'e
~',=,u properly engineer2d plans. 1')e would like the
,~ption to do that. I wouldn't suggest chat we be
allowed to submit written d()cumentation without
aD~rGne else being afforded the same opp0rtunic~r.
I just wanted to clarify that poinc. And again, I
scress, we're here for a setback vari~nc~.
B(jARD SECY. KOVIALSKI, That was part of
che problem last time when \^le had the hearing, the
Board closed it pursuant to receiving additionc¡l
information. Both sides did not get C0 comment,
lC was not properly in a hearlng form W}1en it was
~ll submitted, so we had to reopeD the 11earing tc,
recei~.re the new information that was sllbnlitted
between June 22nd and today. So now YOl.1're aeking
tl~e Board to extend the time for new submissions,
and I'm going to recommend to che Board that the
hearin9 really be postponed. So e~.rerybod"/ can
,.:cmment on it.
CHAIRWOM~~ OLIVA: ].~d l oUl,-n~d t,('¡ rec'e i~fe
the llew information.
f'LS. MESrJ.:-J'JO; fvr"/ moci'.ration for asking lS
chac I don't see che need to have to kepp
L"epeatin.;! the same things O',rer and over -3.gain, 3.11
·=,f the objections we've heard are the cbj~cti,~ns
W2 heard last time.
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BOÞ,RD SECY. KOWALSKI: The Board has not
s¿en the plans I if you f re sa~:ing you want to
submit something new, then it has to be in a full
h2::'tring forum because it's an appeal pr<)cess.
MS. r"lESIANO: That's fine. As far as a
~gainf a new submission I think what I'm refe~ring
tG is a more detailed rendition of what ~'GU lla~e
S¿èn. And IVIr. Orlandc,' s discussed our ,~ompromised
[.lan, if ~'GU will, and that's what we're
,j.-=:r,,·el.:Jpin'3. Again, it was c,ut. ,:)f our c..~-=-,ntp:)l that
I couldn't bring it to you today.
BOARD MEMBER TORTDRA: Cathy, cc)uld ·,.::ou
provide us with documentation on the
nonjurisdiction for the New York State DEC and the
Town Trustees? Could }'DU also provide us with an
f:~l¿'/ation plan that was mentie,ned, and ,:.::c,uld ~r":)ll
also clarif~' the question tllat Mr. McGreeve)'
addressed as to the thickness of the liner? Those
~rc three things l'd like to s~e.
CHiUR~¡OMAN OLIVA, I'd like to make a
IlK)tion adjourning this hearing until Septemb·2r
14Ch so that both sides have an opportunity to
~e~'iew the new documentation as well as thE Board.
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BOARD MEMBER ORLÞBDO, Second.
(See minutes for resollltion.J
r·ls. r"lESIANO: Can we put it until
they would prefer it?
CHAIRWOM,~ OLIVA:
resolution adjourning chis
IJ,:tober 21st meeting.
(See minutes for resolution.)
I"IS. r'IES IAlJO: Thank you \'ery mu,c h.
OCLc,ber,
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hearing until the
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CHÞ,IR\,¡or-1AN OLIVÞ,: Next hearin(j is for
IJeorge Penny V Eor a setback less than 70 feet
from the property line on Kerwin Boule~~rd in
'=~reenport . GO':Jd morning f how are you?
MR. PENNY: Good, how a~e you?
CHAIR\^lOMAN OLIVÞ.: Vlhat would l'OU like c'=:'
tell us, anything extra'?
¡"JR. PENNY: It's prett,'
s~lf-explanatory. We're proposing a on~-stGr'i
addition to our house off of Kerwin Boule'lard.
B3sicall~r just to make more room, add anotller
l~,athroomf add another bedroom, make rOCHn for 3
bab~·. We're over our setbacks. It's 3 light
induscrial property. r,li" famil::, through the
c,~rporatiGn, owns all of the propert~· sLlrroullding
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~11 three sides, and this structure is r~all~r small
in comparison to the other buildings surrounding
it. It's residential.
CHAIRWOM~:;N ,:)LIVA: It's been there a long
time. It's a nonconforming building in a light
lndustrial.
[''IF.. PENNY; That's correct.
CH.'\.IRwor'1Þ,N OLIVÞ.: An'/ Board rJIembers ha,-'e
~uestions of Mr. and Mrs. Penny?
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO; I'd like to go over
it. I have to write this. It's in the LI
,jistrict, so you're restricted b~r the larger
~estrictions of LI as opposed to residential, 'lOll
ha\'e a house there, and i f ~(OU had a he-use in
residential zone, you're talking 55 or 50 feet, In
~ zone that requires 70 feet so that's the basic
r~ason; tllac's your hardship S0 to say. I just
would like to ask you, I see on the survey that
~·,=-·u ha'le, looks like ;:t basement .::loor in the bar,,=,'k?
f'JIR. PENNY, Yes.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm assLlcung ":au
don't want to rip that out that's why )'OU went
beyond it and then came out. It wauld:'ost ~',:,u a
l,.=..,t of money to relocate that, and that I s the::
reason for doing that?
¡"IE. PENNY: Yes.
BC'.Z\.RD IvlEr·1BER DINIZIO: If not, ,'au could
f,ut it ,:,n the back of the house, it would be '='nl,'
".~CI fEet, ~!ou'd still need a '/ari::lnce. It would
probably be a little m~re.
HR. PENNY: ies.
BOARD HEMBER DINIZIO: I see no problems
with this. That's it.
CHAIR¡'¡OMAN OLIVA, Lydict?
BOAED MEHBEE TORTORA: I have IE!
JbjectiollS. I see no problem with this.
W)AED SECY. KOWALSKI, There mct,' be ct t lme
rl-Dblem, l-ight?
MR. PENNY: Yes. There is a time
(:::,:::,nst rainc.
¡"IRS. PENNY, Thirteen '-leeks.
CHAIRNor·1AN OLI'JA: Th¿re mal' be a problem
'.-lith that.
BO.Z\.RD IJIENBER ORLANDO: Yes, first of all
,::'{::,ns iderations, and I don't think your neighb()rs
,.\rill complain, so no other questions.
C'HÞ~IR~"¡GrJ[ÞJ'J OLIVA: ':t'es. Is th~l"e 3rr/bc1dy
in the audience that '.-lould like to speak on behalf
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')1" against this application? If not I'll mak", a
motion to close tIle hearing and reS2y\'e deci8i'~n
until lat¿:l".
(See minutes for resolution.)
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C'HAIRI'/OMAN OLIVA: Next hearing is Janet
Larsen and Carol Witschiebein on Sound Beach Drive
In [',jattituck.
r--IS. RIVERA: [VI;/ name is Christin.-:: Riv"era
311d I'n1 representing Carol Witschiebein and Janet
Larsen. I'm prepared to give the Board, I
r~c'eiT/ed ,,;esterdajr a fax from the ZBA qu.::::stie,nin'3
the sanitar'/ system at the Larsen resid~ncef and I
have a letter from Artco Drainage, they inspe~ted
the site, and some photographs )handingl
The Larsens and the Witschiebeins are
l"equesting a side yard setback ,::;f approximatel",
tllree feet. The restraints of this propert)r are
c'~n£ined by the coastal erosion line 011 this
8ea\\lard slder and they have ample enough y,=-,()Tn in
their front yard to bring this extension that
th~y're requesting forward in order to accomm,~date
tile t\^,o-,=ar garage that they're plannin:¡ to build
there.
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Basicall~r, ~'ou have no problems with
elther neighbor to the east or west, both have
written a letter tc, the Bcard stating that che~'
have no objections to this proposed extension with
che side yard setback that has been requested.
80th the neighbor to the east and west also have a
c<J/,::::,-stor:/ addition, so it would basicall~' be T.rer~/
¡:0nduci\re to the neighborhood for tllis r,roposed
Etddi t iDn.
CHÞ,IRWOI'!AN ûLIVA: ,::,::;uld I just ask \"h:,"
~'ou cDuldn't make the addition orl the other side
where ~r0U have more room, on the west side?
['.lIS. RIVERA: There is an existing
structure tllere now 011 the east side that is g~lng
to be knocked down and incorporated into this
~ddition.
CHÞ.IRwor'IAN CILIVA, That's the ¡:,:nch '.'lith
tlle stairs there, correct?
HS. RIVERA: Yes. That is qoir,c¡ tD Le
]·:nocked down and incorporated into this addition.
1.:Jll the other side is an exi.stin~f bedroom and W~
wouldrl't be able to get access into the home from
that side and there's the existing d.ri~.'·e',\ral'
~nd the water line and septic s~Tstem are closer
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that,J that dri~fewa",-,' that exists there nC:,VJ.
CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Vincent?
BC'ARD I'IEMBER (WLANDD: Ho cemments at this
tlme.
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CHAIR\^lor~AN OLIVA: L,'dia?
BO}\.RD I'IEr·1BER TORTGRZ^: I net ice' on th""
~m2nded notice of disappro\ral it would be a tllree
tGGt side yard setback on that side.
[vIS. RIVER~;;: Correct.
EC)ÞJW !>1EI'IBER TORTORA, That's kind of
tight for this property, and the real question 15
,,d1:/ the existing setback is abcut 11 fc""t"
HS. RIVERA: Yes, approximately.
BOARD MEI1BER TORTORA: I'm 'Jery fami liar
'-'lith the propert~/. I'm just curious as to why '/ou
:_:,:)uldn't c'Jme in t.o get l'~DUl- addition en the ~ast
slde. I know that there's a COl1crete stoop there,
but sillce you're going to add on to that sectioD,
wh~' ~rou ha~e to extend out anotller eight feet.
This reall:.c isn't to scale because if ~',~ur
2xisting setback is 11 feet and you're going down
te, three f this extens ion in green on yc)ur surT~re,!"
would actually be eight feet from the existing
\,·.rall. So I' m kind of curious as to wh..... ::ou can't
c':.::,me in more.
¡'IS. RIVERA: \^le came in ?<s much as ',N""
c0uld for the garage. We needed at l""ast 13 to 19
fe'et fe,r the garage. If \ve brc,w:¡ht the gara,]"" an~'
mrJre G~rer, we would be across the front entrance
c¡s it exists now. The' property goes a little
b':::~'Gnd that wall that's existin',J now, tlv=:re's a
Ce'rne'nt wall with all the shrubbery and pri'iet
h""dges, they go approximately a foot be';cnd that.
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I'm confused. H,~,w
,;:'i.re ';'{JU going to access the '9arage from the
~xisting driveway?
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¡·IS. RIVERA: There's
from the garage into the new
]01ng to be building.
CHAIRlvO~IAN ()LIVÞ,:
going to b-=: a d,-=-·\::-,y
structure that we're
a
The drive'wa¥ wlll be'
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f','l.S.. Rlí]EEA: i,\Je're eT~Tentuall~r '9(".:')ing Cr.=:. put
probabl)r a circular driveway in.
So.z\.RD r'IEr1BER TC,RTORh: ['10 further
'~luestions .
,=HAIRI'IO['IAN OLIVA: crin1'?
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO, Hold up the roof
l:".-:"~:aus-= I have to tell you, this looks like iL's
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t,:,:, much fDr me. I think that :"üu could do a
little better as far as the setback is ~oncerned.
hnd a CWG-story structure that close to the
~F"pert:,' line that's :just -- this is just m,' \'Ja:,'
of thinking on this particular lot -- isn't
warranted. You could take whatever living space
:"ou wanted to and just go up on the hous"" , I we,uld
assume. I wouldn't see an~r reason why, thell all
~rou would need is the garage. Yell could mo',"'e that
garage to the 11 foot and it wouldn't m~ke a
~ifference in the £1'ol1t, as I see it. And I would
p~rsonally like to s""e you come back wlth
2,~mething a little less intrusi'l~ on that side
:,·ard.
MS. RIVERA: I am open to suggestions and
50 are the ít\1itschiebeins. Three foot I...rould be
ldeal but you know, It you have a suggestion, I'm
wllling to bring it back to th~m and se"".
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I would suggest to
~-0U tllat three foot is too much. You know wh,~t
you can live with absolutely. Let me see that. I
___ this big green thing on this lot. In all
lv:)nest'/ I I m not prone t,:) this. It was m~r
-:.=tpplicati.::::;,n, I looked at this, and to nl~,r mind it's
Just too much. There are other ways 1"C'U could go
a}JGut achieving the square footage that ~'OU need
to live on the property without doing this. I
don't know how long that is, but if it were just a
.jarage where you're going t'J park cars I probably
>,J,.)uld ha':e no objections to that. But e·:er,'thin=¡
Else, the pink part, the green ill the back tile
[,roposed addi t ion, I think you can find Gthè:r
places on that property for that living place.
¡'IS. RIVERA: Jim, I' 11\ r~stra ined b:,' the
¡~oastal ~rosion line.
BC'ARD ¡"IEr,IBEp. DINIZIO, You canc¡o up
anr:)th.sr stOYlr. The line doesn't sa'/ th3t ',:ou
,~'an't dc, that. I'm giTfing 1,Tou my honest opinion.
.sc', that \\rhen it comes to the p,=..int wher¿ we ',rote
,~'"n this, it's no surprise how I might '/Ot2 if I
don't hear further explanation.
MS. RIVERA: I'm not qUlte sure if illdeed
I <~Jc, e:,',Tt::;:r the existinSJ struct,uYE:, if I' Tn runnin..;J
up against some engineering problems or pilillg
~estrictions or whate~er.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm open to that.
MS. RIVERA: Our engineer and architect's
h~l'e \^lho's familiar with the project, m3.ybe he can
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'~·01llment on that.
CHÞ,IRWOMAJ'J OLIVA: Instead of lla'-iinc¡ the
'1~rage where it is, vlhy couldn't it be ,::\n the v..¡est
side of the house, and then )'Oll could just go up
)n the other side and then brin~ it further in.
!'IS. RIVERA: If we put it on the west
3ide, it would be access into the dwelling. They
want tG have a garage that the~' can acc~ss the
d1h'ellin'=J from. And being it I S a bedroom, the~"
~ouldn/t have access into the llouse other than
~oing through an existing bedroom at this point.
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA, Here's the thing,
chis is a three foot variance, and it's a 23,000
square foot lot with or without the coastal
er~,sion hazard. And the required setback on this
le,t is 15 feet, you're asking for three, that's a
huge, huge 'Iariance.
{vIS. RIVERA: The existing struct.ure T,,¡as
approximately 10 or 11.
BOÞ,RD f1ErJIBER TORTORA, I know. But l'ou
want to go from 10 or 11, the r~quired is 15, ~rOl1
want to go from 10 or 11 to three, and I think
what we're saying -- at least I'm sa~fillg -- I
tllink ~rou have other options that you really need
to looJ{ at. This not onl)r would close this
property off on this side and it's very tight down
there an~'way, but it's not particularl~r good
utilizati,:·n of the space that ~'()U ha'1e. You'''.~e
Jot 61 feet setback to the front yard t~ what
~'''~;''u' re pr,:¡posing, se ,"-,'OU ha\'e ?t lot of :::',pt 1 I'=; n8 t.:)
"Teate the space l'ou need without this kind e,f
cn,:roachment.
I'·1S. RIVERA: ~'.Je were tr'!'ing to b..3.1anc¿; it
In ccnjullction with the other two houses also, the
hc,use tD the east and th¿; house to the 'N~st,
;:,:speciall1' the house to the east has the extension
~lmGst identical to tllis wllere he comes forward to
t_h~ front -:./ard.
B')ARD IJIE["IBER TORTORA, How far is his
setba,ck fr0m what you're prope,sing, his side ~'ard
,32 tba,ck?
MS. RIVERA: I think he's 10 or 11 feet
from llis property line.
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: That's tiE issue.
Y'Ju're going to close off that entire stretch.
Wl13t is the entire length of that green ~rea tllat
-,-Oll're proposing?
['·IS, RIVERA: This whole thing lS 78 feet.
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EC,ARD ¡'1E1'~BER TDRTORA: ·,·,.)u' re propc:.s liE! 78
f~~t of building three feet from a prc:.p~rty line,
\:Jhat I'm saying is, v,le ha~le not been in(~ 1 ined tc'
look favorabl¥ on this in the past, and would 110t
like to see 70 feet of a wall three foot from the
property line.
r'IS. RIVERA: \^lhat \vould the Board bE
~'omfortab12 with?
EOÞJW MEMBER DINIZIO, That was m~'
,~bjection too. It's not necessaril~r th~ three
tC'Dt, it's the amount of three feet that. '':OU '.-.rant,
'.-'c',u'r2 asking for. There ar~ other pla,-=:es that
~"~'u cc.uld put the Ii 'iing spacE that you ','¡ant t,Ci
[~,ut there on your property. If '.:ou need to sa"/
have the garage there, I understand that far
r·ractic:al sense you T,AJant to ha~/e a gara'3e c,ff the
kitchen not off a bedroom, that's perfectly
reasonable, but the rest of the stuff I dc.n't
ttlillk necessaril)r ~"OU couldn't do somepl,~ce ¿lse
~nd make match to )'our house. If it were just to
sa'.: 20, IS or 19 feet in the ga.rage, I probabl..,"
~ouldn't be Sa)'illg what I'm sa~'ing, but it's r10t.
hlld I'm offering to you come back with sometlling
more reasDnable, '../oLl're still ge,ing to ha'.r~ t,:,
cc,me back to us, that takes into consider~tl0n the
fact that it's 78 feet along that linE and that
11eeds to be reduced somewhat. That is m~'
:)[:,inion.
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MS. RIVERA: Would it help if I brought
the portion of the garage which is approximately
~1 and-a-half feet, if I perhaps brought that aver
to tIle west side?
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BC>Þ,ED r'IE~ŒER TORTORA,
'.·ariance on the west side.
MS. RIVERA: I meant move the garage ~J~rer,
more of an L. In other words, take the garage
portion and kind of bring it towards more of the
ErGnt door entrance.
If you d~Jn't need a
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'::HÞ,IRWOMAN OLIVA:
Just mo~rE it over to
~-
the 1.'\Test?
[·IS. RIVERA:
little bit.
·~'HAIRÍ>'JOrV[þ,J'.J OLI\TA: That st i 11 l~a':è:s ':r.)1..1
to the three foot setback.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZID: You couldn't do
that whol~ thing, move e\'erything west tc el~':¿n
feet :'
Right, move it to the west a
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¡·1S. RIVERA:
['10.
Actually, I we,uld be
August
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CQ\rering, there's an existirlg -- the dining area
a~j kitchen are right there, I would be moving it
~ight over to the water side.
CHAIRWOf\t~]\J OLIVÞ~: This is ':jcing to be_ two
st<::n_-ies, isn't it?
r'LS. R I\lERA: Correct. Þ.nd once I do that
I'nl invGlved in piling issues and engineering and
foundation issues. I alread~' went to tlle DEC
~rior to developing these plans, they told mE with
this plan I would probably not have to go on
pilings because I am outside th¿ existillg
structure and that 50 percent rule. If I start
puttlOg on top of thE existing structure, thell I'm
running into all kinds of enginEEring ~roblems.
BOARD r1E!1BER ORLANDO: '{c,ur plans j',C'U ha'.'e
a two-foot cantilever, now the three foot setback
is that to the cantilevered side or is that t\J the
3r~de me~surement?
r~ls. RIVER,À.: The grade Illeasurement.
BOÞ~RD MEf"IEER ORLAND(): The second floor,
which is continuous two-foot cantilever or a small
pc,rtion?
1"1S. RIVERA: þ., small portion, window seat.
B'JARD I'!EMBER ORLANDO: S'J a portion of
'.'cur addition will be one fDot off the property
line buc elevatEd?
[-¡IS. RI"IJERA: Yes. It's to accomnv:,date a
,...llndow s~at.
8()ARD MEMBER ORLANDO; Don I t ~l':"u think
tll~t's a little extreme?
r~1S. RIVERA: ~:(es. I am open to
suggestions with what the Board will feel
comfortable with, so I can take it back to thelll
~n,j see what you would be comfortable with.
BOARD 1"1EMBER ORL.Z\.NDC': The members here
~~e thinking eight feet no cantilever because
tllat's jtlst cheating so to speak.
["IS. P.IVER,À.: Okay.
CHAIR\^lOMAN OLIVA, I would suggest thac
~rou come lnto the office with t}le least amount
that you could for a ~ariance. We need different
plans. It's just too close and it's to,~ long.
r,'IS. RIVERA: I"1y understanding ~'C,u would
p~obabl'l feel comfortable if I went back to tile
~rchitect and engineer and said eight fsec, wculd
~-GU feel comfortable with an eight foot setback as
Gpposed to a three foot setbac]~?
EOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: ~re you ,~sking me?
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[ honestly think in light of the fact that a
L~cent dê;,::::ision that was made ?t year and-a-half
'tqo, tlf/C' ...:ears ago cDncêrning ~"'¡alz, that the bulk
,;f this particular applicaticm is just entirel::
t,~o much; 78 feet at eight feet is som2thing tllac
Again, I don't think it makes much difference,
~ight feet, three feet. I'd like to see something
rhat breaks that up.
MS. RIVERA: The existing structllre is now
,:lPproximately 10. If I'm 'Joing eight, I'm ,~'nl·:
Ctsking tv¡C,.
BOARD [VIEHBER ORLANDO, [',!r. Dinizio's
;C¡~'lng 73 feet.
E'='.Z',RD IVIEI>!BER DINIZIC¡: It's just t::,,=, Ic',n'J.
I thought I indicated that the part that's the
garage would not be objectionable to me, but tile
~est of it I'd like to see it someplace elsE or
lid like to see a streng argument wh~r it can't go
:-:~':)lTi2place else.
I>!S. RIVERA: You're suggesting either on
rop of the existing structure or to the west?
BC,ARD HErVIBER DIIJIZIC\; I'm not an engineer"
S.J I ::-:3.n't cell you. Certainl1" ~rGU alluded tG tlv.::
fact that }'OU ma~r have an engilleer that could
testif~', that could saY we can't do it fo~ this
l-..:::êtSon.
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MS. RIVERA: Let's sa~r I brought it to the
west, it looks like it's 20 feet setback there,
let's say for argument's sake I brought the whole
structure to the westerl~r portion, so it WGuld be
19 feet, so that would be 11 as opposed to eight
,~l~ the other side, you1re suggesting pe~haps ~ight
feet on the easterly side, a~j it's wrong to say
if I took the whole structure and put it on the
~esterl~r side, it would be a differellce ()f tll~ee
feet. I think they could probably liv~ with the
eight foot on the easterly portion and it would
::.<:-:,IT,r¿ .3. L,)t of problems. We haT..-e the ,sç;pt.ic, t.he
~llgineering and setback problem on eith~~ side no
1L"Latter 1101,0./ we go. So it would b~ 11 fe¿t (:In "::-·n~
side as opposed to eight on the other.
E.i::)Þ~RD SECY. Y:C'~'JALSKI: I think t.he~" ha,.re
lC· see it on paper first.
CHi"d R\^lC:f'IAN OLIVA:
tllie to -- would September
-:,,:-~ t 'Jbe r;:'
SUppOS8 we jl_lSt a jj,~urn
be ~llC,ugh tilne or
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HS. RIVERA:
BOARD SECY.
September would bE fine.
KO¡'V\.LSKI; Chris, if '/C'U ','¡ant
AugU:3t IS', 2û()4
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to, you can give Plan A, Plan 8 arld Plan C. ~ou
,:,;n ce,me up with a couple opt ions.
CHAIRWOMAN OL I V}\. : ,<;nd don't cant i le','el"
·::.·ne fo·':)t from --
HS. RIVER,1\.: Gkay. Thank ycu.
CHAIRWOMþj\ OLIVA: Is thei'e an~'bod:: else
fo~ or against this hearing? Hearlng nc,nel then I
make a mction that we adjourn this hearing to
September 14th at approximately 11:15.
(See minlttes for resolution. I
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~;
CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Next hearing is f'=,r
,Têffre,' S, Smith on pequash Avenue in
Cuteho'Jue. The}' want an additic,n excee,jing thê
~Gde limitation of 20 percent.
['JR. HAM!1, Good morning, mi' name is ¡hleê
Hamm. I'm here on behalf cf the Smiths,
BC'ARD SECY. KOWÞ,LSKI: Dc l'ou ha'/e the
green cards, we're waiting for receipt on that?
I f not, could you get that to us in a dCi~' 01 two?
r'IR. HAMM, Sure. Basically the proposêd
structure to be built fits within the setbacks
allowed and it's a matter of lJeing over bv two
¡:ercent.
CHAIRWO!~AN OLIVA: Yc,u're adding a pe,lTh
of abcut 24 by eight feet in the front?
MR. HAMM: Yes. And a little bit ,en the
side too. They have an existing deck that is
l)eing converted into a living space, it's beillg
tC'l'n dO\vn and rebui It.
BOÞJW !1E!'1BEP. TORTORÞ,: Is that whe L'e it
says new construction?
HR. HAI~M: Yes. That's ncw ge,ing t,,~ l-~
. former deck hopefully, and the porch will be ln
the frent or aesthetics.
B\"ARD ME¡'1BER TORTORA, All of that area
tllat you're going to exparld int0, what is the
.lctual area that is going to be living ~pace, che
dlmer1sions of that, 5 b~r what?
r"IF.. HAM!'!: The li'.'ing space that's being
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CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Yes.
r·IR. HA!1!~, It's 13 fee L 0:" 1 5 f e" t, t ha t ' s
what's there now with the deck, so that will be
the living space.
CHÞ>.IRl\fOr~L~N OLIVA: ~;;nd the side. I .see 5
f :·ot b~' 77.3 feet to tlle end of tile dec~.
HR. H;'N~I: I'm looking- at the ll'.'illg-
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space. I'm looking at the foundation plan, giving
tile dimensions of th~ extension.
BOARD ¡,IEI·1BER T']RTORA:
The deck is whac
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HR. HAMr~: The deck is what brings it
over, there's a side deck that's being extended,
it's 28 feet by 5 feet, and then the frcnc porch,
\dlich is 24 feet b~( S feet.
BOARD MEt~BER TORTORA, 'Iou could cut back
,~>n some of that decking, couldn't you'?
I'IR. HAI·IM: ,:'n the front porch?
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: 'Ies, you're almost
at 23 percent lot co\rerage, and I reall~'
ullderstand the need for more living space. It is
d. small lot, I'm sympathetic with thac.
HR. HAMM: Th<= reason the:,' went with the
Eight foot is the afternoon sun comes in and it's
fading all the furniture in th<= house, that's why
they wanted to go a little bit further than the
six feet, which is y~ur typical fronC pnrch. They
wanted to allow that shade so it doesn't come in
the li"in'3' room.
EOARD MEMBER TORTORA: That is south
èxpDsurs.
CHl\IRWOMAN OLIVA, Would you mind coming
LIP and clarifying something?
EOÞ,RD SECY. KO\1ALSKI: ,In the plan it
shows the whole deck. We're not sure what iQ llew
=tnd what is existing.
'::H.'\IRWO¡~AN OLIVA: Oka,', because on the
stn-"',Te\' we're not sure. You 're just gain,] ce, build
,)T"rer?
[,IF.. HAI'IM, Yes, there's no change to this
~nd this and this part here is new, and this lS
new and this is the deck that's being c0nv<=rt~d to
the li~'ing room, basically.
EOARD MEHBER TORTORA: Certainl~' that
j~ck's going to wrap around into ch<= porch?
I'IR. HAMr·1: res.
BO¡~RD 1'1E[v[BER TORTORA: ('an ¡'all ,~ut it at
311? I'm not talking c¡bout the living space.
['.!E. HA~1~1: Right now the~' ha're'\ shed in
thE: bacY:',~aLd, and if the'/ got. rid of it¡ that
brings tllem in compliance. Th,~t¡s W}lat it comes
,lawn tOt the amount of square f0otage. It's a
¡Darter of a shed.
CHAIRt\fûfv1AN DLI"'lÞ~: It l~3 a ',rerJ- narroítJ
let.
August ISI¡ 2C!04
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lvIR. HAIvTf\1: Yes, that's I:Ihy we'r"¿ tr:/in'J to
Keep the setback within the code. The problem is
we're just that much over, two p~rcent.
B()!'J'.D ¡~EI'!BER C,RLANDO, Is this the sur'te,'
j'C;U submi t ted to the Building Department?
¡'IE. HA¡.¡r~: Yes.
BOÞ,RD r"lEI'!BER e,RLAJ'JDO, They accepted ,,,< 2:2
"ear old survey? ¡-line is dated 1972.
HR. HAr~M: Yes. They'll probablj' have to
g~t an updated prior to starting anyhow t,ecause
the surT..reyo~- needs to do the staking.
BOARD r~EI'IBER e,RLAtJDO, This house is c¡c,ing
C::" be demo'd?
¡',m. HAMI'I: No. Just an additicn they're
[;uttinC( on to the house.
BO!',RD ¡"lEI'IBER TORTORA, If the sun'e,' is
t_his old and we grant a \rarian,::~e to ~/ou I and
J'cu're making this additi,::m based on the existing
:~ur~,·re'ir, it's ~v"'ery possible that when you g.:=:t the
new survey that you go over to the building
department that you tna}' need additional ',ariances
because tIle survey is so old, that has happerled
before. Just a little warning.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: That certainly is a
liability that they take on, and they could reduce
tile pore}l themselves. It's not necessaril'jr t!lat
-:""OU ha.'Ii::: to come back tc, us I '}'C.!Ll just haT.re to
".:,::,mpIJ· vnth the law. E'.'en if the setba,:'ks a¡'e not
l-ight, if they're not right and the sur~re}r iQ
\','l",:,ng I and they decide well, VJê ·;jon' t w:=tnt t,::,
apply for a variance, t,hey'd ha','e to bUlld it
witllin our decision and our declsion is onl)7 c,n
tll~ lot coverage, which, if we're talkitlg alJout a
shed basically, that the reason why YOLt're here,
~rld it's ~ narrow lot, small let the house doesn't
exceed the 20 percent, it's thc¡t shed that's
'Ji~ling '/C'U a problem. I'd hat¿ tc, see them l'~mC,\re
tll~ shed, and obviQusl~- they dOll't wallt to because
the~"re here. So I 11ave no ,~bj~ction te, that.
I'~'¿rtainl'/ you just have to b2 G\lJare that it's 3-I1
,~ld surve~r. Back wIlen tIley cook a look at chern
the~' jl1st drew them up. Now it's more ~ccurate
,~PS Stl1ff. You should be aware of that. I h~ve
tL) c',bjec'tions. ~1I]e: need a clarifi,::ation C"ll that
li~,lng space, ~rou said it was 15 b"i \vhat?
BOARD SECY. KCIWALSKI: B"j' 13.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: It looks to me like
it ']Ges back 13 feet, \JJhich \,,¡a~' lS the 15 feet;'
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HP.. HAI'1~1: Front to bacJ"
left to right 13 feet. Basically
15 feet from
squaring off
the
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BOARD MEMBER OP.LANDO:
r,orch there now?
HR. HAI'11'1: Yes, there's a pOl"ch there now,
',·:e '"ant to remo'.'e and square of f the house and put:
~ porch in front of that.
BOARD MEHBER DINIZIO: Okay.
CHi\IRI1IOHAN C'LI\lÞ~: L'/dia, anything else:
BC,ARD MENBER TORTOP.Þ., ¡)o.
W;'ARD r~Er'IBER ,JRLÞ,NDO: Do l'ou lB'le a
Because tllere's a
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'~..,,:::,ntractor survey yet to start?
¡'IE. HÞ-MM: They contact,,,d Mr. Ingegno in
Ei \rerhead who is supposed to come out and do the
Ellrve~9. Eut I don't know at this point when he's
(,-:oming out.
CHAIRI'/OMAN OLIVA: Hhen l'ou dc" we would
~ppreciate a copy for the file. Is there an~-body
in t:he audience that would like to speak for or
against t:his application? Any further Juestions
from the Board? I'd like to make a motion to
r:'l~]se the hearing and res,,=::r"1",'¿:: ..iecision until
lat:er.
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¡See minutes for resolution. I
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CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Next: hearinq is Edward
Ka.T:3-nagh cn1 Sound ~Z\."1",renue in Mattituck £01- a
t10nconforming garage, which will be 35 feet fraln
tile front line. Would 8omeone like to speak on
rhis application?
MR. BUTLER: Jeffry Butler, Professional
Engineer, on behalf of the owners, Ed and Mary
¡':a','anagh. The applicant is proposing the partial
·jemolition of an existing nOllconforming storage
structure and the construction of a conforming
single-family residence in it:s place. The st:oraqe
st~ucCure to remain is nonconforming at 33 feet S
lnches from a front ~'ard, alld th~ proposed
l"esidence is located at 35 feet which is in
':'0l1formallce with the code.
r would like to ~'oint out that tIle
¡~~:lsting nonconforming distanc~ is to atl
'_lnimpl.-o~,red 1,9 foot right of IJJ3.1T. This t:"l-oç,,'")sal
d:Jesn't iIlcrease the degree of tl,)nconf0rmanc~ tlor
does it create an~' new nonconformance.
CHAIRWOMÞ,N OLIVA, Vin:'ent:?
BOARD r~Er~BER ORLANDO: r'1aybe the to\'1l1
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AU9ust IS'I, 21Jû-i
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actorney oan help me with this. You're building a
rr~w structure that conforms but the preexisting
~-.?trage that's existing, that ~:ou' re net tDur,,=,'hing,
"",':YU need a ~~"ariance for'?'
HR. BUTLER: Evidently.
CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: For che exiscing ::¡arage
·,·Oil don't have a pre CO or a CIJ?
HR. BUTLER, They didn't mencion chat.
B,jARD I'IEMBER OP.LA!JDO: M:.' only 'Juess lS
ma,'be because you're actaching the old structure
to thE new structure.
HR. BUTLER: That's che only thing I oan
figure. You can Bee the outlillE of the ~xisting
.~ t ruet ure to be rem:y,"ed, and ',.¡e' re beyond t ha t
~xisting 3tructure to the right ,~f way, the
l1nimpr'.:J~Jed right of waT/.
BOARD fJIErvrBER ORLANDO: ¡'Ihich almosc Lx,ks
llke a dri~,"'ewaj".
CHAIRvIO!JIÞ,N C,LIVA: Barel~'.
BOÞ,RD ~IE!'!BER ORLANDO: It doesn' c go
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t: hr,o,ugh.
[''IF,. BUTLER: And the applicant had looked
to relinquishing his rights to the right of way,
that l/It'as another optic-n, so that it would no
lcnger be a front yard; Be that everything '.'Jc,uld
='()nform then. But he wanted to maintalD tlle right
to the right of way because of the garage
:~tructure in the rear. He wanted to mailltain llis
rights to it; that was the otller option ,icc0rding
to the Building Department whioh he looked
into. He decided it seems like he should be able
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BC,Þ,RD I'IEMBEP. ORL.".NDO: Did '/,ou :'i.sk thee
ELlllding Department why ~"OU needed this~
MR. BUTLER: The:.' said because of the
~~isting structure being IloncoIlforming.
BO,".RD rJIEr·1BEF. ORL.:'\.!JDO: Þ,ll ri'Jht, no other
(~UestiollS. I don't tlave a probl~m wittl the new
,?:tructur~ .
CHAIRl'/or'IÞ1J OLIVA: Lydia:'
BC<AF.D f·Œ~1BER TORTORA: I real I:.' dcn't
llnderstand the nature of this applicaticIl because
undç~- a pr·ior appeal, Septembet", 12, IS''?~" I
l}~lieve a variance was grallted for this etructure.
,'3--:::, that's number one; a.nd numb,.=:r twe" ~..·=-'u are not
-k)ing 3.n~,thing to thE: structure; in CIuestion_
'.t"-::.,u're n(.=,t ,=:,hanging it in any V'la~', you' l-e not
~lterillg it, so, what is the variance fe,r?
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BDARD MEI'IBER URLANDO:
question.
['1R. BUTLER,
['Jillion cJGllal'
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I have a Building Departmellt
d~nial.
h.
BOARD I'IEI'IBER TORTORA, In my opinion a
Hal-iance is for constl-ucticn, l",,=:construc:tion
"'~Illething .
¡,W. BUTLER,
That/s the wa~r I interpret
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it, but tlley gave me a denial nonetheless and llere
I alll. [J]y issue is they will continue tc" cJen~' me
unless I ha"TJe document at ion frc.m 'lou.
8()ARD fJIEfJ1BER ORLANDC': You 're c>=.,rrect Con
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BOARD I'IEMBER TORTORA, I think the Board
tleeds to review this. My quick re\'iew indicates I
can't S2e the reason that vou're here. A '!ariance
is for something. You're seeking a variance fcr
sC'ffietlling. You are not reconstructing, alterlng,
cllanging, ~·ou are not doing anything to the
stl"Ucture in question. Hhat ':'()U' 1'e dc,in'~ to an
~djacent structure is a different matter. So I
['El"SOnally do not see the need for an}' ~rariance in
tIlis particular case. I'd als.) like to re\riew the
~riGr decision on this where a ':ariance was
'learl,' granted on this property
MR. BUTLER: Probably far that -- because
that's a newer structure in tIle rear alld it's
~bout tllat vintage, that era COllstructi;~ll.
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Th'Jse are my
thoughts at this point.
CHAIRvlOMAN OLIVA: Jim,
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: think I know the
-=:tnswer, a.nd honestly, saying the answer probabl~'
put s you two months behind in all honesty. I'm
not willing to do that.
¡"IE. BUTLER, I can take it, Jim.
BOARD MEJJ]BER DINIZIO: I don't knc.w that
~ou want to in all honesty.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO, I think maybe we do
an interpretation on this or grant the gentlemaIl
his '.'ariance and let him go build his IF:::,use.
That's the way I feel about this. IE not, we
could ha~e tIle discussion, agaill, you know what
1'rn going to blame it on and let's just let
Mr. Kavanagh go on his way and build his house. I
tllink that's what he wants to.
CHAIRWor1AN OLIVA: Vince?
80ARD I'lEr'!BER ORLJ'.l,mO: I made Ill",'
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August 19, 2ÜIJ4
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CHÞ,IRWOMAN OLIV,".: I dC'll't ha'"'e a pr,::;blem
with it at all. Just let me see is there anybod~'
ill the audience that wishes to speak for or
;=J.'_:Jainst this?
¡'1S. RICHI,RDS, ¡'I,' name is !-1arj c'c,' Richauls
,:-ü:td I oT,,,,ln the house to the ba·=k of this pr,::::,p021-tL-.
¡'1y =ILlestlOTI on tillS 15 it's telling me I haT..re
f,nbl i,= \\later, I don't ha'ie publ i c water, that's a
"..r¿11 there. On the front on S,=,und }'tvel1ue it says
--=::i2ting water main, the water main does not CI.,)me
~~\\ln that far. Where are these people gettiu}
their ítlater from? That's m:: on 1...., compl::tint c,n
¡-his.
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MS. MOORE: Just a comment for ehe record.
I know nothing about this application as far as
a:¡ainst or for. I jU'3t think as a poli,_'~' matter,
WIler} the Board does not need to grant a ~.rarlance
0lease send a message to the Building Department
so the IIE-xt gU}' presented with the same issue
,lc,esn' t ha~/e to spend $400 or $.500 plus time .::-'£
the pr,:::)fessional tD be here before you. I f ~·,:)U
,~an get to that issue really quickly, it's better
t,¡ send back - - because the Building Depc¡rtment
rakes a position if ~rQU grant a ~rarianc2 e~en when
,":"~:'u don't feel one is necessar~'¡ they \...rill S3~' ~"ou
ha~'e ratified their interpretation
BOARD ME!-1BER ORLANDG: It's pro coco I now.
f'1S. ¡'IOGRE, That's wh,' l'Du're CJiottinc¡ as
many applications as you are on things th3.t used
Co be pretty straightforward. Please, I get much
more business than I reall)r deserve because of
a0plications that really do not require to be
Ivere. Thank :.:ou.
CHAIR\'IOI'1AN OLIVA, Thank j'ou. Is there
:3.n'.:bod~·T i-?lse in the audience wh,:., wishes to speak?
'.tT¿;.3¡ SlL?
ME. RICHARDS: Good mornin'J ¡ my name
~lfred Richards and I'm co-owner of the property
in the northeast corner in the back. I am really
lr]okillg for a clarification, it seems t·~ be a
'~Iuestion as to wh~i there is an issue hE:l~¿: with the
bc,eü"d, and the notice I got indicated that the
pr,::;blem had to do wi th the front yard setback.
C'HAIRW0I1AN OLIVA: To the garaCJe,'
HR. RICHl\.RDS, To the c¡arage or t,::; the
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BOARD ¡'!EMBER 'JRLA,NDG:
The'l ha':e tIlle, fr·-:·nt
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~/ards, with the right of W3.1' that constltutes tv~"J
tl'(:,nt yards.
r'.='Hl'~IRWOMAN OLlIlA: Because of S:Jund A'.~enue
and the right of way that constitutes two front
::ards.
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¡·w. RICHl,RDS: That ,·¡as my second
~luestion, ¡ûh:.' the front jrarrj VJ:=ts on the l-ight ~,f
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BC'_Z\.RD ¡vIEr~BER DINIZIC': The:: consider the
r1ght of way on the front yard, and this
3pplicatioD, the house that exists tllEre is ()Ill~'
j~ feet from it, it's sLlpposed to be 35, but what
the!"re proposing is 35 feet; what they're
proposing is allowed by law. If the existing
garage were not there, they wouldn't be before us.
So the structure that's already built they denied.
'CKZ\.IR\^lOI'IAN OLIVÞ., We're just le,e,kin-:¡ into,
th.-::re was a pre"'lic,us '\~ar-ianC'e gi"':,7"en to that
~arage, which would make it legal, arId if the
:ariance was given previously lJ!r the ZBA to tilis
~'ropertl~' then they shouldn't be in here at all.
MR. RICHARDS: I see, thank you ~ery
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BOÞ,RD MEMBER ORLANDO, Quick cc,mment, lS
there a response to the water; ·3-re you using a
'.-Jell?
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r~R. BUTLER: The information I !la'.'e came
from the surveyor. I do have a water ~vailabilitv
letter from Suffolk County Water Authority stating
th~t water is available in the street. In terms
of the surrounding neighbors, I'll have the
surveyor check that again.
CHAIR~'JOMAN DLIVÞ.: ~·IJ~ ha'.re our t.ol,·¡n
:'tttcrney here.
TOWN ATTY. FINNEGAN: I agree that the
message needs to get to the Building Department
n..::)t l::;.y wa'{ of a variance.
CHAIRWOM.Z\.N OLIVA: Right.
HE. BUTLER, \'¡hat would I ha'.'e C'J de at
th1S point to expedite this?
BO.Z\.P.D 1'1Er·1BER TDRTORA: I think the Bc,ard
is inclined to try to expedite it. I jLLst ha~2
0tle questiGn for you on the new constrll~tion
l)ecause the record does indicate that a variaIlce
~as granted for the existing oIle-story ~oncrete
block garage, I just read throu-:¡h the prior on
chis. ¡,¡hen you're gc,ing te, deck that paL-t "e,f the
j-j.-:'\'/ hOU82 and bring it bac'k te, 35 feet, the little
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part that attaches that to the garage is that new,
::,ld, what is it:?
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MR. BUTLER: It's just:
8,~'ARÜ r~EMBER TC'P.T,]RA:
a br-eeze',¡a\'.
Were they attached
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before?
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r~R. BUTLER: No.
CHÞ,IR\^lor'1Þ,N OLIVÞ,; Be,~ause t:here was a barn
T11ey were completel~r separate.
HF:. BUTLEP.: Yes, \\Tood frame banl and a
,:.Jl1crete storage structure.
80ÞJi.D MEMBER DINIZIO: SD if you
~liminated the breezeway you pr0babl~r wouldn't
ha':.re }:.een denied.
BOARD I"IEI'1BEP. ORLANDO, ¡'Ie' r'e speculating
there.
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BC,ARD I"IEI"IBER DHJIZIO; I ',¡c,uld sa~' that:
th:3.t's pretty gOGd, from past testimony fr,=,m the
building inspector, to him a nonconformlng
building is not what we consider nonconforming
setback. He's saying at 33 feet that elltire
Lurlding is nonconforming. vle".'e gott:en that: from
him clearly a number of timE:s, and if tha.t's the
r~:ase and he looks at ~valz he I s saying you f re
increasing the bulk, Just like the person that was
llere before, Mrs. Mesiano, that is the w}lGl~ crux
\)£ t.he problem with ~~Jalz, that he assumes anT.'
llûl1conformity if 1"OU increase the bulk r::",f it, it's
r]<Jing to be denied and he doesn' t want to go the
,_::"ther way because it I S not his respons ibi 1 i t~". 3D
we make people go through months and months of
,~pplicatiGns to us, in my opinion needless I'}' I I
think we could clear this application up just by
g~tting it back to him tomorrGw. I'm willing to
;,,'-'rite the decision tonight if W>2; could T.rote c,n It.
,~'HAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Jim, I think 'de ,c,an m3.ke
a ~esolution from the Zoning Board of Appeals tG
the Buildrng Department stating that: there was a
prior ~.rariance given to the ble,:Jc buildlng, which
made it reall~r conforming and chat ther~ is 110
tlonconfGrmit~· in the proposed -- and it has
nothing to do with it?
BOARD r·ŒMBER I:-INIZI,]: No. A
n·.::·nconfc-.rming setback is a nonc:c,nforminrJ setba,:'J.c,
Ruth.
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CHÞ,I RWOMAN OLIVA: \^Ie' II make a
deliberation later. Make a motion to close the
h--==3.rin<j and reser~.·e decision until later.
¡See minutes for resolution.
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CHiUR\^lOMÞ.N C,LIVA, The next hearing is fe,r
Lawrence and Joan Anderer all Strohsol1 Road ill
,:::utchogue for a side l'ard setback. Is there
a.nyone here who would like tD speak on behalf of
this application?
['·IR. ANDERER: Gc,od m=:,rnlng, my n.:::'tme lS
Lawrence Anderel', and I' Tn here ':'='11 behalf clf m~·sel f
a.nd my '....,i£e Jc,an, we a.re the applicants. ~"Je 3Te
l,~'~king to do an addition, alteration to Gur
current ~esidence at 950 Strohson Road in
':ut,:hogue in anticipation of permanent residellce
ln thac locacion and the proposed change includes
~ modest extension to a nonconforming
setback. The changes include relocating cwe
t~Edrooms presently located on the first floor to a
second floor addition, Moving one bathroom
presentl~r located on the first floor to the second
fl'~or, that would ser\re those two bedrooms tllat
we're hoping to build on the second flc'(Jr; ~lld
~elocating one existing bathroom presentl~' OIl the
fi~st floor to another location on the Eirse
floor. There will be no new bathrooms. We are
I(Joking to create an existing space on the first
floor, a dining room as well as the den. We are
looking to relocate two staircases that ~re
r,resentl~' non-code compliant, one to th~ basem~nt,
~n~ to the second floor, and finally te· make a
two-car garage from the present ,~ne-car garagE,
the back portion of which had been ,=:on'.'erted b~'
pre~iGlIS owners as an entranceway, rendering it
~ssentially useless as a garage at the present
tln\e. There are no cllanges prGpGsed £G~ the water
:c ide of the property. Ie;. DEC e:<empt ion letter is
In file with the Building Deparcment. I just wanc
to sa~r we tried to be very sensitive to the
neighbors surrounding us ill working with tIlE
architect and put in our proposed project
together. \'Ie involved three of the four
neighbors, it was just three because WE have a
relationship with them; we don't really have a
l~elati::,nship with the fourth nelghbor. ¡'le
ill~0l~ed them in the design drawillgs from tlle
be 'or inning. \^le at tempted Co make the pr<Jposed
'..:.:hanges as compact as we could while meetins.f c:,ur
/)WTI needs and objectives in doing che project_
For example, we rejected an early proposal fr(~m
/~)~r ~rchit2ct Co go closer to clle road 011 tlle
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fronc side of the property and make the locacion
~:,f the two upstairs bedrooms one behind the ocher.
R,~therf we said no, lee's try to build th~m side
bv side as it's preselltl~' proposed, so the project
W'Juld not go closer to the road than is preselltl~'
the proposed 8i tuat ion. No l/i,=:ws are c,bstru,:.'ted
to the best of our knowledge ~nd we worked wich
tile architect to acternpt to make changes
especially to the front of our building that would
t~e aestheticall~r pleasing and an enhancement to
the neighborhood and its values. I think that is
wllat I wanted to sa)' to the Board this morning.
CHAIRWOI'!l\.N OLIVA: Bas ically 1'OU' re ne,t
increasing ~/Gur setbacks whatsoeT..-er; 'IOU 're
keeping all t.he existing setb3.cks I in fact I "/Gll 're
¿ven increasing the side ~'ard setback from what
~-011 llave now at 19 feet to 23 feet for the te,ral
")f the combined setba,:,'k. That's in ~r~Jur llotl·.::.'e c£
clisappro,.'al.
EC,ARD r~Er·mER TOP.TORÞ,: I think t ha t ' s
lncorrect. You've got 14 on the south side,
~c)rrect, 14 foot setback from the deck? And then
~'011 lla~e five feet on the other side.
¡'lR. ANDERER: Ic's the fi'.'e fooc setback
that I chink caused the problem because we had to
put a modest extension of se\ren foot to
accommodate the building of the 'jar age s'c, it ',...,~uld
extend that nonconforming five foot setback b:"
;::::;e,:;ren foot.
B'2'AP.D MENBER TORTORÞ,: I think ""hat's
confusing things 011 the (land-drawn plot plall it's
shoT..¡ing 18 feet on that side tr:) the existing
dv/elling, but when you look at the sllrT,r~'/ you ."=::111
see that the deck actual 1)' extends out and ~'Gll'Ve
g0C a 14 foot setback for that deck. So whac
we're looking at reall~' is there's net gc,ing to
!)e -- correct me if I'm wrollg -- we're locking at
'.rirtuall~r no change all the side yards
<}/!latsoe':er.
,='HAIp.I^¡Gr~i\.N OLIVA: Just 9,:)ing up and just
~earranging things basically.
r'TE. ANDERER: IJn the second f 1 ':;"J 1-" '..le' ,~l be
pushing forward ~ersus where tIle present buildillg
g02S, but we're not going any closer to the
rr~ighbor 011 that side.
BOARD NEMBER TORTORA: I understand th~t.
It would be helpful on your plot plan Ilere where
','''-::>U ha,.r~::: the 18 feet to the he,use, which is
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prGbabl~' ,:orrect, you also indicated, jllst for our
records, that this is 14 as per the survey for the
,Je,~k.
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['IE. ÞJ'IDERER: I just ga\'e you a cop,' ':of
::Jha.t th~ architect had gi'len te, me.
BOARD SECY. ]éOHALSKI: The 14 feet is a
,'='ontou1_- line.
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BOARD ¡-1E[<1BER TORTORA:
lS, that's where the Building
14 and five, 19 feet.
B'JARD SECY. KIJvJÞ..LSKI:
,?in error then.
B('ARD [-!EMBER ORLAlIDO: He \\lent tD the
~louse instead of the steps.
BOÞ,RD SECY. K(j\^IALSKI: Did you ',.¡ant DC,
tak~ a leek at what we're referring to~
[·w. l'ù'IDEREP.: The side of the buildin,:¡
here would be no closer than what this line is
Üready.
BOARD MEr·ŒER ORLAlIDO, That was just
trying to verify that.
CHAIRWOM~~l\J ,=>LIVA: \lini.:e?
On the 5ur','o2'': it
D~partment lS In 19,
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The architect has
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BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO:
l=asement in this?
['11'.. ANDERER: Yes.
BOARD ~1EMBER ORLP,NDO: Your foc,tpl-int lS
not {jDing to expand on the side i'al"d setback
b~'/ond the foundation;'
Üo you h,:'t',re a
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HE. ANDERER: I haven't
tIle architect. I think most of
is going to be built on a slab.
B()ARD 1'!E[<1BEP. e,RLAlIDO,
really talked to
it like the garage
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I'm talking side
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I"JR. þ,NDERER, No. It's not going to ''10
~n~' further than it is now.
BOARD MEHBER ORLÞ,NDO: And you're 'cc,mlng
£,~rward to your front ','ard, cr closer t,~ the road
Slllce you're on the water. It doesn't r¿all~r sa)',
,~bout feur feet, £i':e feet further than it is now?
["IR. AJ'IDERER: About se.'en foot.
BC,ARD HEI<1BER ORLANDO: That' s 9~,c'lng t-, be
~ two-car garage?
nR. ANDEREE: Twc'-car garage, and I
included photos that outlined that on the actual
propert,' itself.
B')ARD r~E["IEEP. TGP.T,)RA: It's t ha t lit tIe
~-shap¿d area adjacent to the garage th~t you're
'Jc.,in':j to fill in. That's all. Thank '-'(.,u.
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CHAIR\'¡O¡'1AN OLIVA: Jim',
BOAED ¡'¡EMBER DIIIIZIO: I looked 3.t the
,irawing chat shows che new addition, this part
hel~e, al1(:1 it looks like ::ou're 'Jc,ing all the wa'/
across the front of the house with building.
["JR. ANDERER: I did that in order not t~
00 further toward the road. The original project
had bedrooms one behind the other with 3. hallway
l'unning the entire length, and we could maks ic a
lot less compact and not mo~!e it further toward
the road and keep it within the footpriüt
re':Juirements but doin'j that Wè what we did, yes.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO, That little thing
that sa-:.,'s "stooP!! there, is that going tG be built
(:__;,\~.-::r?
MR. NJDERER: Part of it will be, not the
entire length. If you looked at the side-view of
the structu~-e, -:/ou can see that the garage comes
cut further. We tried to break It up in the front
to make it something other than just the wall with
~ lluge two-car garage door. We tried to break it
up b,' the e'ies and breakin'j the depth the wac' we
c1id.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO, [see the two car
''farage, aüd t:he two doors. This door here
'itldicatillg), how far back is that going?
r·IR. ANDERER: Can I CC,Wè up and she,w '/,~,u
the plans? The front of the building would corne
nut: like that (indicating). So this would be
running in tllat raised deck underneath che second
st,')ry and this part would be open in th~ fr,=,[lt.
EOl\.RD ¡1EMBER DINIZIO: There wc,uld be no
se,:ond star)· o\'er the cop of ch,Jse steps?
!,1R. ANDEREE: Nothing forward e,f this
except the front part of the garage.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: From where it says
garage there, how Ear is t:hat from the dotted line
to the fr,:::;·nt?
["IR. ANDERER: FF:Jm here t'J there. The
existing garage comes out this far. It would push
further along this five foot setback toward the
front ,~f the propert}'. The water is down ill this
~ide.
EC'ARD ¡,IE¡·1EER DINIZI,J:
that dotted line?
['¡IP.. Þ..NDERER: The secon,:J floor 'liould corne
iGwn 311d you see ~rou can see it in here. That
would have pushed the whole project OUC,
The secGt1d flGcr is
Þ,~u'9US t_ 1 ~'I f 2 C' iJ.f
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BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: The second floor
will go over that stoop, right?
¡.JE. ANDERER, On this portion right here.
BOARD ME¡.JBER TORTORA: But that's still
g'~lng to be in line with the existing setback.
f\'IR. ANDERER: Yes.
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BOARD SECY. KC)WALSKI: Is there any change
on the site map, Jim, just filling in that corner?
BOARD r~EMBER ORLANDO: Filling c¡nd
~zpanding towards the road.
BOARD SECY. Y:r~l'JALSKI: Eight., seT/en feet?
f',m. ANDERER: Se':en foot extens ion of the
rlDn=onforming f i ;/e foot setback..
CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Right. Are there any
'ether questions for the Board r~embers? No. Is
there an~rbody else in the audience that (/liouId like
to speak for or against this application?
MR. HOFF, Yes, my name it Arthur Hoff I'm
the adjacent neighbor on the north side to the
Anderers, nine ~·ears. I've seen the plans. I
ha~e absolutely no objections to anything. I
think it would be helpful to the neighborhood to
sxpand the house in that way without gc,in'3 t,~, the
sides O~ an~7thing like that. So I'm in support of
what their plans are. I have 110 objectl,~ns.
CHAIR\'IOMAN OLIVA: Thank ~"ou. Is there
,~n~'body else that wishes to speak to this
application? If not, l'd like to make a matiGn
closing the hearing arId reserving decision until
later.
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CHAIRWOMA!J OLIVA: The next applicatic,n lS
for the Fitness Advantage on Youngs Avenue and
110rth Road, Mrs. Moore?
HS. I'·100RE: Good morning, I was brought In
a little late in the process, but I did submit the
drawings by Mr. Ciccadowicz. And I also provided
s;:::;.m,,=: r"'lritten comments that gc" in line I¡.rith the
st~ndards of the special permits so thac I
'.'fDuldn't ha'.'e to go through 3.nd rehash all the
issues tllat support the standards that are in the
z·~ning code with respect to special permit. I
]zn·'.:,w you're all \.rer~/ aware of the stand.::trds and Df
the law of special permits.
Before I start I would like to introduce
rh~ owner here, Mrs. Hufe, we also ha\'e Sara}l
Hage~man, who is the operator of Fitness Ad~alltage
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.~rld I thlnk she lIas 3 whGle contingency of members
~nd supporters, and I/m sure m3n~' of them will
..~ttest t<:J the well-:cun facilit1- íNhere she has the
FitnEsS Ad~v"'anta'Je nOI,,,T is on "ie,ungs J\..\renUE:. Ttv:=re
is going to be a significant interruption of
business by the relocation of this builrlingl
tenancies changed and that's all recognized I but
we're tr~ring to get them through the precess as
fast as possible. Not 01111" ar~ we dealing with an
~:{isting business, an existing entity that Idill
1~8 -- the interruption of business will affe,:t
th~ir business I but v.,¡e' re alsc, ,iealing with -?t use
where people with health needs are members here,
,~n·j the interruption of business is going to
impact them individuallj'. So I VJould a.sk fe,r i'our
c,=,,,.~,peratiGn in expediting this applicati.:::,n to the
~xtent ~'C'u can.
I had pro'Jided you with the drawing", and
-rr)u can see that the r::::xisting building, which
was -- all of you are members of the c,Jmmunit¡" so
','·c,u know the different uses that ha':e been
undertaken here -- but it/s mostly a warehouse,
,:=tnd it I S miscellaneous rE:tail uses and ,..J:3TehGuse
c,~=,mbined uses. The reuse of t his exist ing
building, which is of limited reuse potential,
thlS use is ideal in that when '/c,u haTle a fitness
center I ~rou need the open spaces, you have large
~quipment, It will be an ideal location for the
re locat i0n £re,m Youngs A~."'enue a couple ()f - - less
than a mile, 500 feet awa~r to this new location.
The process goes from here to site plan review and
they received at the same time ~'ou did tllese
,1rawings, which shows the landscaping that's goi~3
to be added; the parking calculations are based on
t_tv::: use, and we haTJe adequate parking. That VJétS
n:Jt knûwl1 at the time that you got your lettt::l"
from tlle Planning Department because the~" did not
have this drawing. I just wanted to be assured
cI1aC when the calculations were done tIl~t it would
~;Jmpl~· with tIle code, and it does.
~"'¡e r':::an address an)· questions th:=tt coms up.
I'd rather a.ddress your questicl1:::: than 'T-=:' thre,u'.Jh
the wllcle litan~r of the standards of the special
permit because it's already in ~r Jur pac]~et in
wrltillg. I also waIIt to submit letters that r~is8
Hagerman received from supporters and n¡embersl and
they are all individually written to the Board and
I'rj ask 'IOU to read them. .some a.re qui t.e
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August IS'I 2004
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humorous, but they are all \'er~' supporti':s
I, h3-nding 'I .
Do you ha\'e any questions?
CHJ'.,IRWmIjAN OLIVA: One question, would the
~rltrance from Route 48, do tlley 113ve th~ curb cut
~pproval from DPW for that, or do tlley 11ave an
~ppro\'al just for the exit or erltrance \Jl1 Youngs
.z-'¡,:.'enue, which would be far better?
MS. MOORE: The problem with the entrance,
;)lll~' an elltrance off of Youngs Avenue, ther~'5 an
~xistillg house and trees and pri~:ac}' issues¡ tllat
was one of the first things when I looked at the
plan I said, can you get some circulation coming
~',ff of Youngs A',,"'enue¡ and f"Ir. Ciccadowicz did 3-
fine job in drawing it in, but hs said
r¿alisticall)' a one-way access is tile only
Plactical access. You can come in from Youngs and
we're actually going to propose to the state ~Dd
,~r caunt~·, I guess, exit-onl~r out all Route 48
bEcause of the traffic circulation patterns there
'=~ll tIle corner. There is an existing curl) cut
tlìère.
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CHAIRWOMAN DLIVA: That's why I asked.
MS. MOORE: There is an existil1g curb cut
but './ou ha,:e to submit to the DOT for a. curb ,::ut
permit an:/wa'/. That is being done. I think ,:)ne
Gf our problems in the whole site plan procEss 1S
tllis started with a Van Tuyl SlJr~ey and we all
kIF)W r~1r. 'iJan Tuyl is nc,t around. anjrmc,re_
,'.~'i,=:,=adowi,=z¡ e'/erybod"'.; herE is trying tc', 00 th':?ir
[,~rt to tr~r to Jceep costs down, alld Mr.
Ciccadowicz did a ver~r good job wittl wh~t he had.
but now we're: at a p\Jint where (He need :in engineer
to giv~ us the drainage and the curb cut detail,
..3.nd unfc.rtunatel-:.:, n,") engineer can do lt vlithe,ut a
11¿W sur~'e~' and topos. So we'r~ at that point nGW
where we have to make the difficult decision 0f a
~'~r~' costl~r survey, and we will have to address
th:lt lssue. That's not "¡'our problem. I t.hink.
it's unforcunate thac the reuse of a building liks
ttllS cne puts you in the same positi,:>n as if j-iJU
tl~d a ';acant piece of propert~· and the same
~~ocess that I described to Miss Hagerman, I Eaid
the same process Home Depot llndertakes for a use
,~f a '.'acant property building a Home De pc lB the
same precess that you and I would have t,~ do for
the expansion of an existing
,uilding. Unfortunately, that's the wa\' tlle code
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~-e3-ds. f-1a\'be someda\r we'll Cf..=.rre.ct it, but f..Jl"
nr)l,tJ that's the process. So vIe ,::tre ge,in';J to rnOT.'e
through that process ~s quickly c¡s possible ~nd
try to address each issue. But I would suggest
ltnt if you would forego on dire,=ting heM the
accesses are going to be underta]~en because we
-:lCH1't I-':.now what DOT lS going to sa-:/, we den't kll'.JW
what the Planning Board -- we'd like tc keep it
flexlble. I think if l'ou address just the use, '^Ie
_2rtainl,' ha\'e pro'tided landscaping, if :"'='U want a
'ondition that it be landscapEd, that's already
chere. We're trying to minimize impacts with what
~-c,u sa}' may be inconsistent with what tile next guy
·3a~'s. We'd appreciatE tllat cc,nsideratioll as
j"ou're deliberating.
CHAIRI^lúI'1Þ,N OLIVA: Vincent?
BOÞ,RD MEr,IBER ORU\.NDO: The pers,:m whe,
lives in the dwelling, the two-story house, do
they '.')Wll the house, aI's they renters?
MS. MOORE: Hufe is the owner of the
~tltire parcel that contains th~ residell~e alld a
storage building in the back.
BOARD 1'1EI'IBER DRLÞ~DD,
the florist back there or are
¡'¡ho
thE::1'
runs
or
uses
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MS. MOORE: Mrs. Hufe's daughter. Son
li~Jes in the llouse.
BOARD I'1EMBER C,RLANDO,
Tllat businEss will
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:3till exist, stay there"?'
HS. I'IGORE: I don't ha'ie an ans',·¡e:c f·'cr
~'ou. ~'Je can onl...' control this business here.
'~~'.4.n talk to ~/[rs. Hufe and gi TIe '{OU an all2wer,
I dOll't want to put her on th~ spot witllout
talking to her husband.
BOARD ME~1BER ORLANDO:
I
but
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The build-out will
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llot go beyond the existing?
MS. I'IOORE: Right. It's an occupancy from
wall to wall of the existing building. Which
~"~ll're probably seeing some activit...· url·jer a
building permit for a renovation of a storage
bUllding. In order to keep the process going they
were able to tweak the building with renovc¡tions,
plumbing, electrical, those kinds of tllillgS f:Jr
the ultimate use, but all under the stcrage
building.
BOARD HE!'I8ER ']RLl\.NÜO: The build-aut that
shows on the drawing is up tc date and accurate,
3D no locker rooms, no showers, just batllrocms?
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MS. MOORE: There are bathrooms in there
11()W. The inside la~'0ut is right now being worked
on v.}i t h t he part i t. ions and so on. So ,:r,:.u' Yè: '30 ing
t,:· h~~re, and Sarah call testif~- to tllat., in5i,je tIle
l:ullding what the," re working '=,n as far as la~'out
,~f the rooms and exercise areas. There's
¡l¿finitely one bathroom there n(]w. WhetllEY ,~r Dot
we'll add a second bathroom, I think the~"d like
to add a second bathroom, but if it trlggers a
whole dela~' factor with the Health Department,
the~' ma~' be using one bathroom for as 1Gng as they
11Eed to, and then to open up. Because the ke~'
l-i~re is to open up as quickly as possible so as,
,igain, not interrupt their business but also not
irlterrupt the regime Gf their members.
B(JARD MEf"IBER r:,RLJUJDr::): ~í\:)U f 11 find out
,~baut the second use 011 the prcpert~r?
MS. MOORE: I will give you a letter to
that effect.
BOARD I'·1EI'1BER ,JRLANDO, Thank ye,u.
CHAIRWOrJIAN OLI\lA: L~'di~ '?'
B'~'ARD f1EMBER TORTORA, ¡-Jill the proposed
use ereace any more craffic,'nois.s- than thç
permicced uses in the business c,wn zenej discrict?
¡,IS. NOORE: l'J-c;. You' 1'''' going t~, ha'?e
~ctually the potential, becaus", this is a business
=oned propert~T, the potencial recail uses cilac
oould be undertaken in this buildi~J ~ou could
,convert this building into a strip shoppi~J center
w1th some creativit~·, that would be a mlJch more
111tensive use h.s-re. The proposed use is limiced
tr~ffic impact and use. Becaus~ obvieusl~' people
~hat are exercising come at different times. ~
let ,o,f times the," re prescheduled, l'ou stagger it
s': e'.'er,·h::dy has the benefit c,f the equipment.
BOÞJW 1'!E1'1BER TORT.]!',l\.: In 'fiewin'J ,'lll the
businesses in the B ['istricts, sllch as C',O,U just
In'2nt ie-ned, restaurants and othEr s imi 13.L uses, 15
tllis use less demanding in terms of neise,
traffi,:, impact to the communit~T and sULrounding
area than atller permittEd uses?
MS. MOORE: I think that the answer is
~·es. I knew all of you as members of eh~
\~Gmmuniey would input your own feelings abouc
that, but certainly the permitted uses in the
business zone, as I seated before, are ~,~,me thac
~re mvell more intensi~'e, more traffic g~lleration,
rll,)re noise, more acti~!it~· chan one use. Itl fact,
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chis is one tenant for the encire building, so the
llse of a fitness center is a reall~r -- I don't
want to sa~' under utilization, but it's limlted
lltilization of this building.
B<JARD MEMBER TORTORA: I don't ha'le an",
other questions.
CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Jim?
BC,}\.RD ~IEMBER DIlUZIO: No, I jusc chink we
'~Iught t.c concentrate on t.he permit. itself, and nClt
11ecessaril~r on parking.
CHAIR~AJOMÞ.l'J OLIVA: ~lJe can't, that's up to
the Planning Board.
¡"IS. r~OORE: Thank YGu.
CHÞ.IP.\101'IAN C'LIVA: Thank you, Pac. Is
there anybody in the audience that would like to
speak for or against tllis application?
¡-'IS. Kj'I,LICH: Hello, m1' name is l'lar¡, ["¡onte,
f~alich, I grew up here in Laurel, went to
Mattituck High School, and after about a decade I
just recently moved back to SoutÌlGld to raise m:/
~roung son with my llusband. When I moved ba,:k to
t\Jwn in January, I joined the Fitness Ad."'lanta.':J¿
'J~'m run b~/ Sarah. And being a member c',f Fitné:8S
;',dvantage has been reall1' ilrlaluable t= me in
lll3-intainin'3 both my h.::::al Lh and also, mc,r~
lmpcrLanLly, helping me wiLh m:.: diabetr::s..
In addition, co offering valuable health
ser':ices, Fitness Advantage also serves as an
informal place where people of all ages from ~rDung
1110ms tG senior citizens come together a few times
c¡ waak, and I think ic has che effect of
strengthaning the bonds of our community. For
~xamplE, it was one of the cornerstones of how I
started to get Mark to know more people and really
felt at home again in Ollr town.
I see in Sarah an excellent ezample of a
:-,oung person who's working to build a businass and
,-4. life here in Southold town. I ha~,re been "\:er-:,;
impressed with how she runs her business in a
professional and yet friendl~' and supporti~:e
manner.
I am "\.~er:; excited for h¿-r as she IJoes to
l:ak8 the next SLep ill moving to a new, bigger and
l~,~tter location. I strollg1y tllink as SGutllOlj
ï_,=-~,'",]n we should be "'Jer:..: supportl':.·e of her and 'JLheT
~oung people like her, and I would like co ask
that you not only grant the special exceptioTI, but
that vau also do it as quickly SiS possit·le sin,~'e
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Fitness Advantage will have to close uncil they
~eopen in their new locacion, and ever~'da~r will
tne.~n a loss of business and a potential loss Gf
I~lientele to a business I believe dese~~es GUY
full support.
Thank Y'::Ju ~/ery much fc·r ~·.:)ur time.
C~HÞ~IRWOrv1ÞJ\J OL IVA: Thank you. L4nybod'.o'
else llke to speak?
MS. FARR: Hello, I'm Paulirle Farr fronl
:~r,·uchold.
I too have been a client of Fitness
Ad':antage for four years at my doctor's
recommEndation, and I ne','er exercised in life and
it was extremely hard to get into a routine Gf
,]c,ing two or three times a week to the:¡.,'m, and
llV" that I have that routine, e-ier.,· da:: that I
,='annot go because it'.s being closed, wesJ:ens rw:
resol\re to go back. I need this gym tc be open,
~lld it is true that 1'\'e made a lot of
~':quaintances in the town. And Sarah is reall~' to
be admired I she f s a -fer-j,T YOUl1'3 vF:,man, I think
she's 24, and a native daughter trying to makE a
li~/ing a.nd trying to eventual I,!' marry and haT,re a
family here. So I think the faster we can help
her -- a.nd she has a record of ownership, Gf
lloise, ,~f traffic, n,~ one has e~er compl~ined
ab,~ut her current gym, and tllis one will be
betcer, ~~t worse. So I hope you will help her.
CHAIRWO~L'\.N OLIVA: Thank l'ou. ies, sir"
[,-IR. ANGA: Good morning, I'm Ri,-=:hard _L~nga,
and m:/ wife and I are members at Sarah's
,~lub. You mention noise, we get ~relled at if we
put the ,,·¡eights down tOG much, c,r if sDmeh::Jd~' has
a ,~ell phone. So I don't thinJ( you hav~ to worry
~bout that. The reason I'm here this nlorning is
first of all, I think it's we all feel sorry for
Sarah because as of tl1is week she's gOi[lg to llave
co close, and man~r of us are going to ha\r¿ to look
eG gG elsewhere, whicl1 it's not too eas~- to fin,j a
plc¡ce, if you 'Jo through the :¡ellow pages of the
pl10I1e book, which I have done, there's Got toc
man~r places on the north fork nearb~' that we could
'J') tG. Tl1ey're certainl)r not going to take me
Cur'/eE, but my wi fe has some pulmonar1r l=..roblE:lTls,
she has asthma and we just c'=:"::Jk a physi,=:al '"ich
~llr doctor, and sillce we have IJeen goin,~ to tlle
T/I11, both of us ha,.re shown a '/ast impre,T.rement.
_=ü1d we êilso go the gym, and ~:,Te meet people WhCi
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have similar medical problems. One guy "joes there
he's there four, five times a week. He has
dia.betes. He works ~.:rery, ,-reI'Y ha.rd and he's
managing tG keep the L~,lood sugaL down.
We ask you please to act as quickly ac
possible because I think by this place closin"j up
f·c.r an,' length of time is going to create a real
h3xdship for many ,:}f us. Thank '¡"c,u.
CHÞ,IRI10MÞl-J OLIVA; Is there an:,'b,e,d:,' else
cllat wishes to address?
MS. MOORE: I just want to point out
tGffiOrrOW is the last day, unfoI'tunatel~r her
¿xisting tenancy ends tomorrow so the urgenc~' lS
~rnphasized.
BOÞ,RD I'1EMBER TORTORA: Y'~u ha'ée to ge t
slte plan approval?
MS. MOORE: Yes. We go from here back to
c}le Planning Board.
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA:
,¡hat is the time
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frame there?
MS. MOORE: I don't know. I don't want to
scare an~'body that's in the audience. I'd rather
n,::,t comment.
r=HÞ~IRvJO['vt;;N OLI'JA: If there's nr:-, r::"th-:::r
L.:=:marks tD be made, I would make a moti,,::::,n c lC';3 in'9
the h~aring and reserving decision until later.
¡See minutes for resolution.)
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CH."IR\^IOi"IAN OLIVÞ..: Next applicatic,n is for
¡'¡hitne,' Armstrong on the north side of CIa:,' Feint
Road, Fishers Island, for a rebuilding of his
h,:,use that burnt down on Fishers Island. [,1r. Lark
lS here. We had the privilege of going to this
hOllse and the grounds, which are absolutel~· --
MR. LARK: So you ha~e seen it¡ so I don't
ha~re to comment on it? It's something special.
Richard Lark, r~ain Road, Cutchogue, new
-;c,rk, fOl the applicant. I don't belie','e the file
'~'r,="ntains ::t letter from the Trustees waining
J11risdiction on the application which is nothing
more than permission to rebuild the house in the
~xlsting footprint. As you kn,:·w from the notice
,~f disapprc'lal we're llere under 239-4 of th~
Ze,ning Code, which requires an area vari~nce tc
L~build it because the footprint is withill 100
f.:=:.:=:t of the top of the bluff area on Fishers
Island 's,:::nJnd.
As you know from the applicatie'll and the
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pi,::tures that you ha'.re in the a.pplicati.-:::)n, it's
fairly cDmplete, it speaks fc,r itself, so I \'.](>n't
dwell on it. 100-242 of the Zc,ning Cod~ requires
us to be here because on December 15th the
building was totally destroyed and to be rebuilt,
even though it was built in 1927 in that
footprint, it requires a '/arian;:::'è. So, for all
ï.ilE: factc,rs that I ha'.Te stated in the af"pli,=:ation
~nd the most important being is the stabilit~r of
the bluff, I talked to the surveyor and I was able
tQ get surve)TS as back as early as the 19505 tc
r::'.:)mpare with what is there todair, in the=: sur·...e=:~.r
t11e~T have before me, and it's exactl~' the same.
The neighbors also told me, not the Armstrongs but
the nelghbors on both sides, on Fishers Isla~j
S()und facing the north, there 1138 been zip for
~rosion there, which is amazing, because on the
s,~=>uth side of the island it's a. differ~nt stC'l'Y.
It's huge when we get the storms. So for some
reason there is none and e~,Ter~;thlng has stayed the
2ame as it was originally built. So COl1siderlng
~ll the factors under 267 of the Town Cede 011 tile
lalancing and the application for the area
':arial1ce to rebuild in the existing footprint, I
-:isk your permission to grant that applL::aticjn.
CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Yes. I !la'Je ne,
r'l·.:Jblsm. \]ince?
B'='ARD f1Ef1BER ORLANDO: IJo quest i,::ms. vie
,.risited the site. We were at the site tile ottley
jay. We saw the pictures the other day, it
brought it to life. .'\.nd we got all the details of
,,'Jhat happened. It was ·very unfcrtunatE: for th::.se
r>;.::cple.
CHAIFJiJOfJIAN OLIVA: L1.rdia?
BDARD f'1EMBER TORTORA: I didn't see it but
I did look at the picture. It's heart breaklng.
CH.'\.IR\'IOI'IAN C,LIVA, Jim?
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I have t~ say it's
. fabulous piece of property. The absolute
y~storatiGn of tIle footprint tllat he di,j is
ünbelie',·able.
¡'IE. LARK: They were concerned about the
sifet',· lssues, belle\re lt or not, because th~ fire
,larnage was so extensiT.re and massive thE:-:,,- fi'Jured
get rid of ever}'thing, put dirt on it, put grass
:~.'n it. It's rJoing to take a cc.uple yeays to 90
through with ever~·thing, for the archit~2t tc
rebuild, settle with the insurarlce compan~r and
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~·:e~~·thing you have to do.
CHAIR\^lOM-"N OLIVA, Is there an~'bodj' in che
audience that wishes to speak for or agaitlst this
piece of legislation? If not, I I d like to make a
m0tion closing the hearing reser\ring decision
until later.
{See minutes for details.)
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CH.i\.IR\^lOr1AN OLIVA: Our nexC heal~ing is fc,:c
the Fishers Island Club, the}' had ,,¡ish t:::, build éi
tennis pavilion near the tenTI1S court. Mr. H3mm.
HR. HAI"IM: Ste're Hamtl1 fe>r the applicànt,
~s ìJugent Street, Southampton. I llave an
affidavit of posting.
CHAIR\iJOMÞ,N GLIVA; Three ,c,f us ha\'e been
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I"!E. HAr-Ir'¡¡: I understand l'ou ha'/e. '3,:::, ,"'QU
know that the tennis pro at the club is oper3ting
cut of à shack right now and the membership wanted
,~ little nicer facilit~·. It's llot gain,] to }~e tGO
extreme. The)r're going to hoo]c up to existing
",ept ic, it will noC be heated, i c will be drall1ed,
used fi~.re months a year, will not result in any
In/:rease ill membership, and, ()f course, it's beirlg
reviewed by the Planning Board by such ching", as
parking, lighting and so forth. I believe ic
meets the scandards of 263 and 264, which léirgely
,J.¿a.ls It/ith en~rironmental issues. And the c¡nly
people that are going co see will be club members
~nd guests. AQ 'i0U knew it/s 0ut on the extreme
~ast end of the island. Tllere are a few IlGm~S to
rtle east of the club, but most of those are
E~,r,=,babll' members anyway. So its impact, gi~Ien all
these ,,:::ircumstances, I hope i'Gu/ll .see i.s ra.ther
",light.
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CHAIEWOMl\.N OLIVÞ,: Jim'?
BOAED MEr, mER DI!HZIO: ,'Ie did l,:)ok at the
l'::'l"opert'./, and it's well within i'e,ur prc.pert~'
})Gund. There were some questiollS, not realli'
questions, statements about setback for this
Luilding, and I don' c see them. And I ',':ant t:::,
state that for the rçccrd that I don't ~22 this
I~"uilding ha~."ing any problem with any s.::::tback ,:111
this piece of propert~'. Lot CG':erage 15 fine.
r'IR. HAHr1: The bui Iding inspecccr was
,)rigillally going to write it up as all access,~,rlr
structur~ as though it was on a residence and it
had t,':) meet a certain setback L::.ein9 wat~rfront and
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so forth. And then he said special exception, I
p,:¡inted out the 100 foot rule, and so f=,rth, and
he 2aid, well, the Zoning Board can take care of
it. Þ.nd he didn / t deny it fcr that reasc,n. I
will, just for the record, this whole property lS
,Y~'}ned by Fishers Island De"\relopment Corpc,rat, i,:::::;n
that club is a tenant. That road is chlned b'.rT
E'I DC'O .
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BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO:
~ight of way, or is that road
\~.'ars dri"'le?
¡'IR. HAMr1: A2 far as I know it's a plac'e
where cars drive. In deeds to tlle residents, to
the chains to the residences out there, there are
~eferences to roads 40 feet wide and so forth. As
Ear as I know the~' could put that road anywhere.
:3..::, -:/ou can I t really measure a setback from it, you
'ould measure it from the pavement, I 2uppo2e, and
say it's a road. To the extent it's an issue, I
wc=uld say that 1'OU either find that it's a
drivewa~' and not a road or grant whatever reli~£
would be appropriate in that circumstance.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I think I may
mention that f s within their distance but the Be,ard
finds no reason --
Is that r,oc\d a
just a place where
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HR. HAMM: Right.
property, FIDCO owns beth
the rO-3-d, so.
CHÞ,IRWOMAN C,LIVA:
And the
sides cf
owner of the
the road ?tnd
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Lydia ~.
BOARD MEI'!BER TORTOPJ\.:
I don' t ha~.:~ ¿;.rl~r
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'~luestions .
CHAIRWOMAN OLI\lÞ.~: T'.]in,='ent?
BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: No questions. We
dlscussed it in detail at the site. We noticed
the setback but it wasn't noticed in thE notice of
diE'apprO'.'al.
CHAIR¡'¡OMAN OLIVA, I ha'.'e no further
questions. I think it's negligible. Is there
an1,cbody in the audience that wishes to speak: for
or against this application? If not, I'll make a
mc:rtion to close the hearing and reser~}e decisi,=,n
\lntil later.
¡See minutes for resolution¡
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Islalld
CH.Z\.IRI^l0!'-1AN
Club.
[,JR. HAM¡'I:
,:HAIRWO[J[þ]'I
OLIVÞ.~: Next c,ne is Flshers
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Island Health Project.
OLIVA: Yes, I'm sorr~r.
I'Je all
AugU8t. l~!, :;:üü'-±
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F'a\'¡ that coo.
¡'IE. HAI'1I"I: ,Z\.gain, for this hearin-g Sce'/en
HamIn, 38 NU'3ent Street, .southampton for the
~pplicant. And I have the tWG more cards and tile
~ffida~it. And I've prepared a memorandum, sa~.re
some time in my presentation. I understand the
three ·:,f '':OU who went out there did meet v.lith [¡Irs.
Farsons, so you do have some histor~r. Fishers
Island, to put it bluntl~·, is in dire ll¿ed of a
Dew doctor's office. TIlE offic¿ being used 110W
was built in the 19502 b~' vclunteers. I
1111derstand that one of the Exam rooms ~·ou lla~e to
step down inca. It's difficult obviously for
wheelchair purposes. They did try to expand co
the neighboring lot a few YEars ago, ran into
p"-oblems with neighbors, litigation and sc,
forth. They have looked, as I point out ill the
memorandum, at other sites, but they are all
problem~tic for one rEason or 311other, ~lld lt
turned cut that last ...·ear che utilit...· c,e,mpanc' had
two lotsl and they ha~e offered one on whiell t1lis
~roposed doctor's office and residence is planned,
c¡nd that ln terms of the cost and so fcrch and
buildin-g something new that's modern and adapcable
to the needs of the people Gn the island is jl~st
the best overall solution.
How we ha~:"e twe, road blccks in front ,:¡f us
in terms of the Building Deparcment. First
,JIJ'."iousl~·, we well exceed tlle square fOGtage
,c¡ll,e,wable for home office under the percinent
8sction of the code; that one I'll deal with in a
second. I deal with that in the memorandum as
well. The ether issue raised b,' che Building
Department is that e\'en if we were to m~et the
home officE square footage requirements, welre
told that welre designed as a quote, cllnic, alld
that I I ~/e gi\'P"en ~loU somE definitions in my
memorandum. Also I can point out my doctor ill
~1ainscott on the south fork, he has at l~ast this
much of a facilit~r, different waiting reoms alld
,~reas f0r his staff to do insurance and so f0rth.
I think that one is pretty easil~r disposed ofl a
~~: 1 inic, to summarize I reall:/ il1'Lf'lio2s rnul t iple
decters or specialist under on2 roof.
':::H_Z\.IRI10I'IAN OLIVA: Als'J I think it implies
t0G of having some sort of medical beds Gr
hú3pital beds.
filE. HþJvll"-l: To some \~xtent I think it
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1mplies that too. I think the building inspector
is clearly wrong in that regard. Insofar as the
~rariance is concerned to allow us tG ha,.re mor¿
square footage and I address each of tIle reasons
Iloder the Town Law in the memorandum, bllt this is
~ case where the public, ~rou/rE allowed as a Board
to weigh the public benefits of an applicc¡tion,
c¡nd this is one that is clearly the biggest
lssue. The down side that you would ha":e to
,~ddress, perhaps, is the subst~lltialit~r of th~
',-3riance. We acknowledge that on its face it lS a
substantial -- the number of square feet askitlg
Eor does well exceed the amount that's c¡llowable
l_lnder the code. However, there is one '.rer~T strong
¡~itigating factor here, and that is the generosity
~f a neighbor, Mar~r GOBS¡ whose letter l-ou've
received, l've attached it to m~' memorandum also
~ttached to the memorandum is the composlte tax
[lEt};· I which shows t.he propertj" whi,::::h she has
-,·olunteered to donate to Island Health slwuld the
project be approved. Her donat.ion, and I'~e
tc¡lked to her husband about this as well, would
~ome with strings attached so that Island Health
,:ould II0t. use it., for example, t.o sell it to
SGmeone to raise mone~r; t.here would be a re~."~rsiQn
in that donation. It could be used for ma~te
future expansion or parking or just to be held
-/a,~ant. The reason I sa~- that helps with a
sllbstantialit~r issue is t.hat here we will be
neutralizing another lot that theoreticallv ~auld
ellppcrt. anot.her 500 square foot office, so we'r~
up nov.' t.o 1,000 square foot, and the
~llbstantialit)' issue is not as great..
I"le addressed the ot.her issues in t.erms
r~f t.1Ie 1leighborhood, it. is a residential zone but
t.here's a baseball field across, and it's bet.weell,
llot t.')O far ~way from two busilless zones, a hamlet.
l:,usilless and a limit.ed business. The impact. OD
tlle one neighbor who has a house t.hat adjoins is
minimized by the fact that that house is quite a
Lit t..:" the nort.h on that propert~,r.
There's great support far this project on
ttv::: isls..nd and I would just êisk J'ou t,:::: .=tpprGT:e it
if you could, and if I can answer any Q128stiGns.
CHAIRWGrl[~zu.J OLIVA: I feel ¡"au ha~.~e rçally
unique circumstances here, being it is r~D an
island and they're desperately in need .:::·f a ·jc,,=.:tor
I~r ane,ther doctor to come and stay the~~ to
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provide bedrooms for them to sleep over.
hc¡ve a problem with it but somebody else
~Jinc;::nt ?
I ,::k,n't
might.
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B']ARD MEMBER ORLANDO: !Jo ques t lons .
CHAIRWOMAN OLIV}\.: L,'dia,
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA, It's a stretch but
I can ullderstand it.
CHAIRI^¡or~.Z\.N OLIVA: Jim,'
BOl\.RD MEMBER DINIZIO: Sh"è had m2nt ioned
I think her name was Suzie.
~~R. HAMr~, Suzie Parsons.
BOARD MEI'1BER DINIZIO: how ,'lose it
\,-,,'a:3 to the emerr:jency boat that ~rou ha;le, some sea
st.retcher.
[,·1R. HAI~M: Sh"è didn't m"èntion that to rn"è.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO, She pointed to c¡
location, it's only down the road.
¡"JR. HAM~j: Frobably near the felT,', that's
~nGther reason that would support is t113t as
opposed to other locations.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I have n,) troubl"è
~t all wlth it. I think saying this is a clinic
is a stretch, and justifying it as a clinic ill the
COIltext of an island.
[,·1R. HAMM: That's the ke:,' thing. When we
':Jet hurt \¡.¡e can go to the hospit3-1.
B':'.Z\.RD l'1Er~BER DINIZIO, There is no plc¡c'e
¡-C' go here but that d,c;ctor. And m,' undsrstardin:¡
lS that there are no employees.
1'-lR. HAI·jM, IJe. There is a receptic1l1ist
a.nd one doctor. At an-:l given time they-..:':' s nc mor2
than one doctor, and I just c0tlfirmed with h~r
there are no other doctors on tile islalld, nc,t E'.ren
a private individual who's retired, no 11l1rses
either.
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CHAIRWOMA.N C,LIVA: Is there anybGd:,' in tlhò
~udience who wishes to speak for or against this
~pplication? If not I'll make a motion to close
tile hearing and reser~e decision until later.
(See minutes fe,r resolutionl
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CHAIR¡'¡OMAN OLIVA, Next hearin-:¡, Eliz3.beth
Tc.,¡..=;.mej'· on Cal.-::b's Way in Greenp':.Jrt for :=tn as-Luilc
,:Ieck of 8' by 12'. Mr. \^leiser?
HR. WEISER: '3eorge \^ls iser, Cutchogus for
the applicant.
Basically this is jllSC ~ simple
~melld a ~·ariance that was gi':211 back in
reque.st
to
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wtlicll was a setback ~,rariance. In the permit an S
f,:,:,t b,' 12 foot was defined; in Lealie.: an e b,' 15
deck was built. Somehow this fell through che
,~'racks because this is a condominium, an..-l "'Jh~n ',.¡e
built all the other condominiums, standard deck
was 8 b~r 12, some were larger, bllt this unit i2
tIle orl1)' urlit in that cGmmunit~· that has two front
l'ards. So that's whj' we had to. go for the
-.-ariance. The variance was granted to ..3. 28 foot
setback. When the building inspector came ouc to
irlspector because the unit's in contract for 8~le,
it came up on the title report that there was arl
'_T::,en building permit. So in order to CDrr¿J:::t this
issue, we had to have the Building Insp~ctor renew
the permit. The Building Inspector came out, felt
2,.rer:/thing was oka'l, but he noticEd thers vias
three feet more than what was specified in tIle
-,rariance permit. So we had to go back tl1rough
this entire process. What I'm asking this Board
to de is either amend or '3rant the new -/ariance
~ermit stating it's an 8 by 15 deck as opposed to
~n 8 b~' 12. The intent of the Griginal permit is
noC 7iolaced. This deck is still 28 feec off the
l-'=-~' 3-d.
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C:H~~IRWOMAN OLIVÞ~: Ok:a~'. 'Jincent:'
BC\<;RD MEMBER ()RLAND(): Sir, y()u're th~
bUllder of this complex?
¡,IE. ¡^lEISER: Yes, I was the developer.
BOÞ"RD MEI'1BER ORLANDO: þ,nd e'.'er,'one has an
S b',' 12,
MR. WEISER: 8 by 12 was standard. Some
were in the rear, some were in the sides. Some
~,eDple have much larger decks, but the 'da,' 1 C
w,::,rked was the deck was built ',¡ich the
":'~Dndominium, and e'h~r1'thin'3 was under the same C'D.
BOÞ.RD l'!Er~BER ORLANDC,: So ,'ou C'i.me fc,l' a
-:~rian.::e because e,f the two front ~rards fer ths 8
by 12, got che building permit and che ~aLianoe,
l~ut ne',rer went for the CO for the deck?
HR. ¡^lEISER: He had a building permit f,=,r
th~ condominium --
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fe,r me.
,~nd the
B,JÞ,RD ¡~E~IBER (,RLÞ,NDO: v,¡hose
respcllsibility was it to file for the L\~ co tl13t,
t.he c,ccupant?
¡"IE. ¡,ElSER, No. The subcontractDr L3
che one that does chat, people ',¡hG wc,rk
We go. out and fill out the applications
Building Inspector will come out and de
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his due diligence and get the CG. The decks were
always combined with the building's CO. this was
che only exception, and somehow ic fell through
che cracks. When we realized we had to gee a
~rariance setback because the deck was too close to
the road, we had tc file a separate building
~ermic fcr chis deck, and we put down cn thac
'3t3-ndard 8 b'1' 12, but what was built was an 2, b',r'
15. Simple as that. So at this point in timet ::lS
I said, it's in contract and 3-11 open buildillg
p~rmit came up on the title report.
BOARD MEHBER ORLANDO: '{,JU didn't file for
the CO because you built it too big?
NR. \>lEISER: 110, ic slipped bet\"een che
~racks. We always felt that 2~2rything was
incorporated in the CO for the condominium
l:,ullding itself. It was just ~n oversig}lt.
BOARD I'IEr~BER ORL,l;NDO: No c,cher quest ions.
CHAIRWOMAN C,LIVA, L~'dia~'
BC,}\.RD ME!~BER TORTOR,l;: !To. vie c'lpprc'/ed an
c, b~' 12 deck in 1997 for 28 feec. The deck ended
up being 8 by 15; it's still at 28 feet. So
-r·~·u're essentiall)' back here for three feet.
CH,l;I RWOI~AN OL IVA, Jim?
BOARD MEI'IBER DINIZIO: I don't see ic chat
',·,ra"y because you didn't gc any closer, but I can
tçll j'CLl that I I,·¡alk b'{ this eVçr~/ morning, and I
~anft see it. It's not Gffensi':e, and I didn't
knDw it ~'·Jas the subject of an a.pplicati,:~~,n until I
~?3-W this. I ha'~~e no objections.
C'HAIRJ'IOr.IJAN OLI\lÞ~: Is there anyl>~)dy ~ loSe in
the audience that wishes to speak for or agaillst
thlS application? If not, I make a motion to
close the hearing and reser'."'"e the dec:isic,n until
I c¡ter.
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CHAIR\'IOr~Al'1 OLIVA: Nexc appl icat icm is for
I~ tIeW home on Gillette Drive itl East Marion, alId
~',=,ur dWElling will be less chan 35 fEEt from che
~ear lot line, also the lot is ~rer~r shallow.
1·13. r~OC'RE: ':;cod morning. I ha','e the
principal of Cleaves POillt Construction, who
ll,~ppens to be a lawyer but he does criminal law.
HR. KENNEDY: Robert Kenned:/, f,:;r the
re"=:ord.
IAS. T-1ûORE: I'm sorr'y' that you didn't h3-'.'e
.::tn~/ paperwork from me in ad~.ranl=-'e. I^lhat I did 18,
August 1::)/ 2004
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I checked the original submission that w~s done to
the Building Department, and something Dame up
that I want the Board to know about. þ,pparentl,"
vlhen t.he permit application was made to thE:
Building Department, they didn't notice that
there's a small porch th~t the garage -- the
proposed house is a modest house in keeping witll
the neighborhood, but there is a small two and a
half feet out where there is a porch that's
inserted in part of the garage and front
antranceway, and that two and a half feet doesn't
seem to be reflected in the notice of disapp~G~al.
I \,\rant to r3.ise the issue and there is diffeLent
c¡lternatives to this, which is that the
application has alread~' been made for a rear ~'ard
~'ariance, which is obviously needed her~, because
in order to build a house here, you'd have a 10
foot wide house. So there is obviously a neej for
a 'larian<:'e. The question is whether you woul,j
prefer to see the house begin at the 35 foot front
"card setback and push back an additional two c,nd a
half feet, or we would push towards the front but
weld ha\re to come in with a ee,:ond vari~nce. We
want to start the house but come in with ~ second
~'ariance for the small protrusion of the deck.
That we can discuss, just keep it in the bac]{ of
~'cur mind for a1 ternat i ~,"'es.
BC'ARD ['~Er~BER TORTORA: The two c¡nd a hal f
feet lS -- right now what ~'ou're proposing is 15,
the CVJO and a half l'ou'd be at 12-5 on that side,'
MS. MOORE: Right. The front of the house
starts at 35 feet, whicll is conforming ~nd the
lJnl....' ncnccnforming was the rear ~/ard. Sc yes, 15
and a half, I think.
BOARD MEMBER TORTOR.": "lour sUr'.'ey
indicates that on that side where the two and a
half foot jut is, if I'm looking at it right --
["IS. MOORE, That's the jut.
BOARD r~EMBER TORTORA: \·.¡hid1 \>vc,uld be the
east side?
W::,. !'IC,ORE: I'm sorry. The front of the
ll":,use on1~/, the side 'lards are c,::n1forming, there's
plenty of room. It's a 'lery wide but D~rrow depth
lot. I circled two and a half, the frent, if ~'ou
l00k at where it says A at the bottom.
SC,ARD SECY. K()1j.J;'~LSKI: So::;, the h,=.,use is 32
,~lld a half feet deep instead of 30?
I"IS. I"'OORE: In part, 3C' foot is the
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majorit,{ of the house, but as '/C,U can see the
garage is 30 from the front of the garage to the
back of the house it jogs back and forth. There's
L=t t.\.,..¡.:) and a half foot - - here, I' 11 come o'/E:r and
point it out. It changes the footprint by two and
a half feet on the one portion.
BOARD I'IEr~BER ORLANDO: Front set:back wc,uld
t- 32 and a half.
I"1R. KENNEDY: Exact:ly. If we lea'.'e It as
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BC,Þ,RD I~Er1BER ORLANDO: [Jot to lnt:errupt: t:c,
,~sk a quest ion, I ha~le twe sLn·"'\.~El's, I h'::i.~_,re ,_::)n~
with a 15 foot rear yard setback and one with a 17
fe-ot rear ~rard setback.
MR. KENNEDY: The 15 foot is correct. I
ha.d t.:; re-do it. The original ,=,ne said 17 fEet.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: In the notice of
disapproval was 15 feet.
[¡IS. ~J[OORE: It's cO;lered now.
BOARD MEI'IBER DINIZIO: That's the rear
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CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: The fr,~nt yard has nct
been addressed.
B,C,ARD SECY. KDI^lALSKI: ¡'Ie ha\'e L'J
ad~rertise it and notice.
["1R. KENNEDY, I bought the lot ',·lith m,'
parent:s. They live down Gillette Drive. They
lla~e been there since 1970. In fact, m~' father
was president of the associatioll there, Marion
G1anor Association. So we're tr~ring t.a keep t.he
h,:=nlse in fitting with the neighborhood ~nd be an
addition with the neighborhood.
First, the Building Department said thc¡t
t.l1e lot was not single and separate, so it took me
~bout six months to figure that out with Mrs.
Moore's help. Then I went with the plans and they
said ~'ou lleed a rear ~'ard setback. That.'s all I
asked for. I didn't realize that those two steps
constitute a front yard.
BOARD MEMBER ,C,RLANDO: Because cf the
square footage of t.he steps.
MS. MOORE: So the existillg noti,~e of
,jisapproval and the existing constructioll could be
Jranted with having to come back to advertlse for
~ front stoop. In fact, right next doo~ ~'ou
3ranted in support of this applicat.ion, ::':)u 11lct:"
ha~Ié it. in your files alread~/, there was an
application t.hat was granted in 2001 for the house
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nExt door. It was Appeal NumbEr 4915, I'll givE
~"~;'u a e,:::{:·y I f'/IanneI' GrO\Te and Peter DiNi,.=ola. That
was a ~ariance granted for the original house
cGnstructed at 22 foot rear }'ard setback. Tllerl
che~' came in again in 2003, and the~r gGt a
~rariance for a new front porch, which i8 fivE foot
Er'~llt yard encroachment, so it brought the setback
to 31.8. So you have right next door all example
Jf an identical situation developing. I'll puc
th.3.t in the record so you ha~le it.
As ~'our own precedents and neighbor, Miss
CeIlins was the person who wrote the o~iginal
J.t':;,'::'i.sion, and it stat¿d clearl',.' in that decisicHl
ttlat these shallow lots require a 'lariance; that
aü~' hOUSE chat would be constructed would end up
with a 10 foot depth of a house.
B-:'ARD MEr1BER TORTORA: The decision ,'ou're
speaking about was for what in the rear ',.pard?
MS. MOORE, I believe thac hOUSE got a
rear yard setback of 22, Linda lIas ic 110W, but
~gain they ended up with a five foot front porch.
BDARD MEr1BER TûRTORA_: Still and c¡ll, the
'.r~riance they were granced because I happen to
l-,::;rnember che lot, that 22 feet is substantiall~r
differellc than 15, and I know chat we granted ~
fi~e foot variance on the porch, but what ~'ou're
asking for is more than was granted there. I just
wanted to get that on the record.
MS. MOORE: Yes, it is. The siz2, the
,iepth e:,f this house as you can see on che plans lS
;Jnl~' 30 feet. Mr. DiNicola was buildillg a spec
he,use. It wasn't a concern to him as t(=, the depth
e,f the house and sornebod:.: came =tlon'J and b::)ughc it
the wa~' \Vas. For I'I1r. Kennedy 3-nd his f~mil,:", a ::,1)
f0'~C wide Ilouse is more in keeplng with his
Jesires. Nonetheless, the rear ..:ard is still
sufficiently large for a proper setback, but it
gives, in particular -- the side yards that's
rEally on these propercies tend to be the back
-.r3-rds on most of the houses, and that's the
useable area.
MR, KENNEDY: If I could just offer one
ching. The people thac are righc in the back chac
I~re going to be affected CllE most, whell the~'
boughc their house chey didn't have aCCESS to
Sllffolk County Water. So I ga','e them an eaS8mellC
through this property, so they could hook up. I
tF)pe ehey're not here to complain about this.
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MS. MOORE: It wasn't quid pro ~uo at the
time. He was being a gODd neighbor.
'=HA~IRWOI'~AN OLIVA: Jim?
BOARD ME~1BER DINIZIO: I look at it a
little differently, if this was not a corner lct,
sa',r there was a lot where '3illette Dri\'e is --
MS. MOORE: I dOlllt think itls ~ corner
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BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO:
All rigllt, how does
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It make it a rear )'ard then?
1',15. ¡"¡OORE: It's the rear yard.
riGor is (In Gillette Drive.
B(JAP.D r~Er~BEp. DINIZIO: I see. There's 3-
lot on one side then it's -- Okay. It is a
little harsh. Moving it towards Gillette Drile 1S
~ better alternative.
The" front
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HR. KENNEDY:
]']5. 1'·100RE:
Tllat's flue with us.
We're certainly willing
to de
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BOARD HEr~BER DINIZIO: I don't think the
front ~'ards there are 35 feet in any case.
HS. MOORE: I was looking for an averc¡ge
setback, but because some of the other lots have
,c:tuall,' merged, that the:/ ha'fe put ver,' lar-::¡e
lle'llses on the center e,f two merged prop~rties.
The one rlght next door has a similar situati,::,n as
,'-',urs, Tax Lot 14, then 15 I'm n\=,t sure m.a-:/ be
na.cant. I was looking at the assessor's e,f f i':'="è I
23.1 is front and back, so that they have a lot
t:'.hat two houses down. They actually han;..:: tW(~) lcts
t:'.hat merged, the front and bac:k, so th~i' ha·I":? a
lot that is 125 in width smaller than ours, but is
172 in depth. So they're able to put a house
furtller back without any difficulty, without allY
-.-3rlances. I thought about that becaus¿ certainl~'
In':' first e.ption to an'.: client that walks thrGUi:Jh
the door is, let's se~ if we call avoid a ':ariance
illd we go looking for the adjacent properties
viithin 300 feet to se,= if their front -:.,ra.rds -3.re
11onconformiI1g. We take an average of ttlose frcnt
,'ccrd setbacks.
]"1R. [,INIZIO, I '.-Jc,uld SOty that the
n1ajority of the homes in that de~elopmellt are 110t
35 feet from the propert~' line. 11m v2r~' familiar
with It, ma~'be 30 feet. I mean, I hav~ no
,'~¡bje,.:tic)n to a rear 'l-'ard 15 feet. But if '....'e're
lC'0king to make it conform to the area, ma)~e
tllat's the way to go.
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EOARD 1'1EI'1BER ORLlÜJDO: The avel'age squal-e
foot of this house is prGbabl~' about 2,800 squ~re
f~et g~·.·e cr take. I doni t thlnk this is t'/pical
,::f ,::;illet:t:e. Typical of Gillette the:.:' re modest:
houses. Lately they have been throwing a lct: of
tlg houses up there.
[·IE. KENNEDY:
BDÞ,RD r1Er~BER
tIle road, Dillizio, I
L-elated
I think it's 21 n~t: 28.
ORLANDO: Þ~lso thE: he,us¿ down
don't knew if it's
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BGÞ"RD IVJEMBER DINIZIO: Les, it 18.
E(jl\.RD HEr~BER ORLMJDG: I t was a ranc h, it
was a modest: house, and I think it still had a 20
foot setback in the rear. Tllere was another
110use, just north of that, thE~e's two ranches,
they probably have 15 foot: setbacks, and let me
tell you, Pat, it is so close I actually thought
it was a garage in the back yard. So I dro~e
~round the other side. It's really close. If
tl1is was a ranch, I wouldn't be as concerned, but
it I S a two-story house with a small back ,!'ard.
It I S towering. Iv'J"JP Dpini.=,n is ',-'C'li need ce, cut that
l=,~ck, the 32.5 in the front th~t will C'Jme before
us e'Jentually, not a big deal, but it's --
MS. MOORE: A 30 foot depth house to l~U
is too bic:¡?
BOARD HEr·1BER ORLANDO: It's nDt tJ'pic:al of
the area. I know 'lGU said it wasn't too big.
It's a 3,000 square foot house, give or take, a
,i.-::cent sized house fe,I' a modest neighboLhood.
two-story house 15 foot off the line is
intimidating for a back yard. You have to look at:
those tVIG houses. I thought théit was a 'Ja.ra<je it
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was so ,: lose.
MR. KENNEDY: I think I submitted all the
plans to the Board. I think it:'s only 2,100
3quare foot or 2,000. It's a small house.
BOARD r~EI'!BER ORLANDO: I don't: iH'Je tbe
plans, I just have the footprint.
["IR. KENNEDY: The plans are there. I ga'le
.32"Fen CO[,les. I'm prett~/ sure it's 2,1'~~11~) at ths
lnest.
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r~s. MOORE: We could redesign E'~ thE
garage is a detached garage. Right now the garage
is part ()f the existing structure.
EOÞ,RD ["lEl"1BER ORLANDO: Does that affect:
the rear yard setback at all?
HR. KENNEDY, It wouldn't -- by about: two
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feet, that's all.
feet thinner.
BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Let's see if
thsre's an'/one in the audience'?
CHÞ,IR\^lOMAN OLIVA: Is ehere anyone in tt1e
~11dience tllat wishes to speak f,~r or ag~lnst this
'11~plicaticn?
MR. KENNEDY: As I said, I know c¡ll ehe
Lleighbors in the neighborhood, W~ have b¿en tllere
aJ::.out 3 Ü ~rears.
BOARD ¡VJErVJBER DINIZIC,: I can sa...· ehls,
chat Dinizio residenc~ is a staIldard Dinizio
house. We",e probabl~r built se~ren of that, those
;,::; ::tme plans.
8C'ARC> MErVJBER C'RLl\.NDO, I think ehe,/ \-¡ere
.:1052 to 20 foot setback. It's a modest ranch.
This is the same thing, it's a two-stOT'/, l~, f'=ì<:)t
is tighe.
8C,ARD MEMBER C>INIZI':,: I ::J"uess I'm Juse
saying if the Oinizios were building two-stor~r
IlGUSeS, that would have been two stories.
MS. MOORE: If you want to shrink us down
a little, just gi',e us a footprint because at that
point we're going to have to go back to the
~rchitect anyway for the footprint. Unfc,rtuna.tely
these plans you have to scrap. If that's how ehe
whole Board feels. If Mr. Orl~Ildo's ill the
nlinorit~· then that's oka~r.
BOÞ,RD MEI'IBER DINIZIO: I think that ttnt
fr.:,r:)tprint's fine, just ma'1rbe mo-:e it fc-rvlard 3-
little blt. I think the neighbcrhood is conducive
tc that juse simply because I can't think of a
tlouse that is built in the '60s and '70s that's 35
feet. I can't think ,::;f an,'. I think ehe,' In'.'e
~ll, they're smaller h::;uses, agreed, but on the
~a2t side of that road are quite a few ,~apes.
Felati\res, Mr. Campbell and they're capes, but
they still look like two-stor'/ houses, ma.jrbe 31~1
feee, bue basicall,' the same size yard. ,"galn, if
':"~"U pullçd it up five feet, S2T.r':::11 feet, I don't
ehink you'd notice ie and the geneleman could
~11j0~r the comforts of 3 30 foot house and still
ha\re 3 ba.ckyard. But that f s m:: ,:::::;pinion.
BOARD SECY. KOWALSKI: I'm net sure if
~r,.::-,u' re avlare of this, the Board had appli,:::atie,ns
t\~ go 30 feet and the Boa~d has denied them alld we
jd',re alternati'fe relief, about 32 feet. .so '/CJU
might W3.11t to stay around 32 an~i a half.
It WGuld make the hc,use tw,=
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l·'1.S. tlI()ORE: \~Jhate\rer the Board \:J3..nts. As
I said man',.' times, when you haT,ce ¡Jone this far
witll plans at some point, the architect's gOi119 to
pr~tt~' much charge ~'OU again.
BC>ARD SECY. KCMALSKI, ['0 rough diagrams,
we don't have to have the architect's seal.
BC'ARD I'IEI"1BER TDRTORA: ¡'Ie' ve heard '(OUi'
i:cncerns and the Board will discuss it and
~scablish a footprinc.
MS. MOORE: Fine and we'll work wichlD
that footprint. However, if we llave tG go back to
::l fre,nt ".'ard setback \rariance
CHAIRWm~AN OLIVA: New sur.'el' tc,c,.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: We can make a
:-tecision based on their applic'.3.tion. Tl1e2' den't
ha~e to come back in.
BOARD SECí. KOWALSKI: The procedure ',.¡c,uld
be t'~,l11orrow, I'll give you a list of thin:::rs. I
¡':noVl there's an addicional filing fpp ilF'ol,'ed.
We real I" should read~ertise it.
HS. MOORE: I know that. I'm not
questionlng that. I'm just sa~7ing would it make
[nore sense to adj Qurn this t,:) next month in ',,¡hieh
time we can get the revisions done?
BOARD SECY. KOWALSKI: ~\]e dr')I1' t have t lme
tc, do that, it' s onl~' three '".¡e~ks away.
BOARD r'1Er~BER TORTOR.l\.: The width::of the
l=,orch that you're going to be pLoposing is?
MS. MOORE: IE using tilis same footprint
is a Cwo and a half protrusion beyond the existiGJ
'Jarage. Because it kind of cadd~'-corners che side
i:_,f the house.
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BOÞ,RD r~EMBER TORTORÞ,:
32'5!1 in the front
2'ard?
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~1S. ¡'~OORE:
':ani of 1=.
BOARD ~1EI'IBER TORTORA: Cjkay, this lS 111,'
(~piniGn. I'm not willing to i11crease tile widtll of
the house to 32' 5'1, period. And there's con'~Ern
tG get you off the rear propert~' line, it's the
c0cal width of che house that we're looklng at.
.~~nd I don't think we ha'..,"e to go to .3 2' L~, II in
tl~re. If ~·ou want to come forw,~rd a couple of
feet to 32 feet, that's one tiling to get 17 ill the
back, t·ut now what WE're really talking about
lGoking at the second variance that's 90i11g to
mO~2 tile porch to go 32' 511
MS. MOORE, That's an opcion.
Right, wich che existing rear
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BOARD MEMBER TORTORA:
\JJhich is --
MS. MOORE, Well, if the Board is not in
f?t'.r,=-,r of, that f s not an option. ~'''¡e ha"T,rs Cine '.·/ho
would rather not see that alternative.
That is an option
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BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: You've got 30 feet,
tilen you're going to tack on, then the width ,~f
chat house is 32'51', so tllat gives you no leeway
to go front or back because as Linda aptl~' pointed
r~ut, we set a standard Oil Gillette Dri~"e at 32.
That was it. So we're stuck ill therE. So t,~
~ncourage them to go ahead and look for anotller
-:3riance, unless all of )"ou are in fa~,rc,r --
['-'IS. [v'[OORE: I'Jext door '/OU did 2·j' 5 I', '.·¡hen
the next door the)' got a variance.
BC'þ,RD SECY. KO\^lALSKI: \'Ihat is the name on
t ha. t ,o,ne;'
MS. MOORE: That was DiNicola.
BOARD SECY. KOWALSKI: That was rear ~'ard,
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f'1S. MOORE: No. They came back f,:::,r a
secolld variance for a front porch.
BOARD SECY. K>:MÞ,LSKI: ¡'Ie' II ha'le tc,
l"esearch it at the office another time.
MS. MOORE: Tllere is a 28.5 next door.
B()ARD MEr-1BER TORTORJ\., There's no
'"_-:·~-.::,mparisGn. Do you want to gi',re us a rear '.:ard ,=,f
=:: feet"
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['-IS. [',jOORE: No.
BOÞ,RD ME~1BER TORTORA: Then let's nc,t
discuss what the neighbor has.
1'''1S. r';¡OORE: Do you want to del iberate and
c·Jme up with a majorit~r opinion, and we'll go back
~nd draw with a majority opirliGn?
BOARD ¡'1Ef'IBER ,.JRU;.ImO: I like that l'ou do
that, honestl~r. You've done tilat in th~ past,
just tell us the dimensions, and then w~ can tweak
It.
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r~1S. r']OORE: When we can, that opt ion's
tilere. Thank you.
CHAIRWOr~AN OLIVA: I'll make a m::>tion Cc,
~lose the hearing and reserve discussion until
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CHAIRWOMAN OLI\TÞ.~: Next hearing is RGnnl~
~rld Janice Soffer for a Band B Gn Maill Road ill
'~;'r lent.
Augus t 1 ::-', ::: 004
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MS. SOFFER, Good morning -- good
-::tfternoon, Janice l\lcCabe .soffer, and this lS my
11usband Ronnie Soffer, and we're here to appl:r for
a special exception to open up a B & B in our
house in Orient. We have a very charming
llistorical house, and we'd like to shar~ It with
the public. And I guess chat's it in a nucshell.
I'nl also a nutritionist and a diabetes
~,:::lucat,':)r, and I' '.re al'.vays wanted to open up a E
~nd B where I can share some h~althy rE:c'ipes. ["'1'/
"~llnt actuall~r inspired me; she has the Top of the
Morning Band B in Cutchogue. I've had good
t_raining under her. v!;::; mov"ed here about 3- :re3-r
and a half ago. We love the area. We lo~e the
history and we would like co open it Uf to the
public and share it.
CHAIR¡'¡OMAN OLIVA: How man,' bedrc,oms "Jill
':r=:,u be renting out?
MS. SOFFER: We only did two bedrooms.
CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Does e3-ch bedroom ha"l".'"e a
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['-1S. SOFFER:
bc¡th at this point.
BOARD MEMBER TC'RTC,RA:
OVJner's bath?
MS. SOFFER: Downstairs on the main floor.
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: E'.'en though J'our
bedroom is adjacent to the guest?
r,¡¡s. SOFFER: Yes. Our bedroom i2 \'.sr:,'
close to the stairway where )'OU just go down 311d
arGund to the bathroom downstairs.
h:JARD ¡'1EMBER TORTC,RA, That's a hal f bath
in the kitchen downstairs?
MS. SOFFER: 'es.
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA:
kind of indicated places for
the guests be getting out of
farki~J spots there?
MS. SOFFER: We have quite a bic of land
in tlle back and there is an L that you can ~3sil~'
back up on to tIle grass and then go forward Gut
the front entrance.
CHAlp.¡'¡Or~Þ,N C,LIVÞ,: Then YJU will ha','e che
wlndows at the appropriate size?
MS. SOFFER, 'es.
CHÞ·..IR~"¡Or'¡¡þ..N OLIVA: And exit signs and some
20rt af ladder from tIle second stor~'?
MS. SOFFER: Yes, we do.
Two bedrooms, but sharing a
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Þ~nd I see '¡'ou ha'le
parking; h'JW WOllld
that; there's four
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BDARD MEMBER TDRTORA, v¡hat is che width
,]f t}lGSe stairs, the stairwa)' gOlng to the two
guest rooms on the sEcond floor?
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¡.¡S. SOFFER:
BO.'\RD SECY.
::;n that?
I have the plans here.
YD¡^lALSYI: ¡'¡hat is che sC3.1e
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B()ARD MEMBER ORLÞ,NDO: ()ne inch equals ,=,ne
foot; no quarter inch is a foot, so it's about
three and a half feet, I guess. So YOlI don't plan
1)11 expanding your dri"..rewa::, you're just ':;foin'J to
tell people park on che grass. I was there. I
\:1as able to turn around, but there was no one 1n
the dri'"reway so it made it easy for me. I thou'::Jht
there was a lot of vegetacion on che side. I
,kn't J':now if ¡'ou can pull en the lawn.
['·W. SOFFER: vie can expand.
BOARD MEI'1BER ORLÞl'JD(), Human nature people
don't park on people's back lawn when they turn
,:i.l"c·,und.
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¡.¡S, SOFFER: We have grass chat they can
pull into, there's no vegetation behind if the"!
were going back and then forward.
BOARD ME!1BEP. ORL.!ùJDO: I was able to back
illto one and two, and then back into three and
four, but I was trying to envision a few cars
thEre. .ì;.nd 'lOll have tWG cars, (Jne car?
MS. SOFFER: One car.
BOARD HEI1BER ORLA!JDO: And you'll be
0ccup~'ing the same drivewa~'?
MS. SOFFER: Yes. We cErtainl~' can expand
t_h~ dri',reí.va,!' if it becomes a pre,blem, Lut IlIe ha',re
~l,~d four cars in there. It was TIO problem.
B'JARD MEr'1BER ORLANDO, I would r3.ther n'~C
see people back on to Main Road.
1'1S. SC'FFER: ND way. ¡'Ie require ever~'Dcd,'
00es back and then out forward.
BC,ARD !1Ef'1BER ,~'RLANDO: Ale the people
,'Joing to ha'/ê a separ3te entrance? I S~iVJ '2rcu had
t.VJÛ front doors.
MS. SOFFER: Yes. The entrance on the
rlght would be for the guests, and our entrance
WGuld be che kitchen.
C'Hl"lIRWOI"IAN OLI\'A: Lydia:'
BDARD r'1E~ŒEE TORTORA: !J,::> quest ic,ns.
CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Jim?
BDARD MEHBER DINIZIO: !J,J. As long as
it's clEar, and you're not going to parle cars 011
'1illage Lane. You malT ha,.re to throw sr,::,me
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bluestone down so people don't park on :..'our '~Tass,
if you're successful, it would be great, but
b~sides that, no.
MS. SOFFER: I know th~re's quite a lac of
fErr~" traffic, it's been thought about.
B(JARD ¡~Er~BER ORLAND<J: I don't know l f
:..-,.:::',u'rE a.ware that we did ha'le a letter from y,-.::-,ur
lleighbor across tIle street?
MS. SOFFER: Yes, I did see that
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lecter.
haT..'e two
fa,:,tor.
You know, because w~'re onl~" going t,~
rooms, I don't see it as being a niJlSe
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CHfÜR\^lOMAN OLIVA: I just wanted l'OU co be
3ware of it. Frankl}-, I asked Linda too, I don't
think we ever had a complaint of noise from allY
E ,s.: B in town" Let me see is there an~"body in the
3udience that wishes to speak for or against this
,~i.pplication? If not, I'll make a. motie,n to ,=-:10802
tllis hearing and reserve decisi0n until later.
{See minutes for resollltion.!
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CHAIRWOMAN OLIVÞ,: N~xt one is for Sarah
.~nd James Garretson. The}" wish to make a small
,~ddition on a porch on a lovel~" old house on
'/illage Lane.
[·'IE. GARRETSDN: I'm Jim Garrets·:,n, also 3.11
~rchitect, and we propose there's an existing
la~jing on the back porch of 56 square feet, and
~e're going to fill that out alld make an open
covered porch of 70 square feec, basically
irlcreasing the coverage of tIle propert~· b~' one
l'=',-=rc:ent.
BDARD r~EMBER TORTORA: -i0u're dC 24
p~rcellt let coverage right now?
MR. GARRETSON: Between 24 and ~5 percent,
L4.nd we'd go between 25 and 26 p;::rcent. Goe8 from
1,905 to 1,975 square feet.
'-::HAIRI'/OMAN OLIVA: You' r~ goin'j to keep
r-:.hat pc,r,=:h open?
¡,IE. '3ARRETSO¡¡, Right, always open.
There's a screen porch next to ic. Ri'jht now we
gG from the screen perch around into the kitch~n
Cllis W3)' we go right to the kitchen.
BO;'~RD r"IEr~IBEE C'RLA.NDû: -{,JU' re .:::xpanding
the pca-ch ~loU ha',"e n·=,r".,r?
HR. '3Þ,RRETSON,
No, no. The screened
exactl~' the same. This
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porch we have now sta~rs
an outside porch.
.~ugust
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BOAP.D !>1EI'1BER DRLANDC,:
'{·=,u're making a
c,
jeck not a porch?
r·JR. >::;ARP.ETSO!J: Deck with a CC".'CT, cO'iêTed
i~~k. It appears to be one long thing because
we're e'fening out che roof. IC's funccionall'¡
,iifferenc. IC's a ucility. IC's where you
-3.rr i \'e, 'j'ou drive in, you take ~'Dur stuff out r'Jf
the ,=ar and l'ou go in the parch, into the kitc:hen.
s~ the people in the screened porch can stay there
and not get bothered.
'::HAIP.WOMAN GLIVA: L1'diac'
BC'ARD 1-1EI'18ER TOP.TORA: The 56 square feet
inc.'rease is abouc - - you're figuring, -:..:'::)U' re
estimating that's going to be about?
HR. GARRETSON: I think the co','erage \lIhen
~'ou ha\'e a landing, I don' C chink thac '-="C)UnC2 as
cQ~.'erage, unless you're co\'ered with somethingl
~'r::::,u ha':e something ol:er you. ~'Je' re sa'.:ing vie. Ire
itlCreasing our coverage by 70 square fe.et, but in
terms of that little area there, there's alread1' a
56 square foot, a small landing there that we1re
removiIlg to build a IIEW landing. So it's not as
1Jig aD increase as you might think.
BOAP.D HEMBER TGP.TORA: What is the actual
figure on what you1re putting itl?
["IR. GARRETSC:N: 1 Ù by 7
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: 70 square feet.
MR. GARRETSON: 70 square feet of co~:ered
c¡rea we're putting in and replacing the 14 square
teet of uncovered area.
BC,ARD HEI-18ER TORTORA: That's g=:,ing to
bring us to approximately --
MR. GARRETSC:N: 1,975, approximately
b~tween 24 and 26 percent, if you warlt to round it
IIp, }"OU should probably round it up to 26 percent.
BOARD MEMBER IJRLA-.tTDC,; So ~¡ou' r~ going to
extend or continue with the pitched roof, flat
r,=,,=,£ c,':er --
r~·IR. GARRETSON: vIe f 1'e r~'ontinuin~T the r(Jr~)f
~f the kitchen back over ev~r},thing, so it will be
,=,ne type of rDof over both the porch, th~ kltchen
and the new porch we're adding. So it looks like
It's tDc¡ether.
B,JARD 1'1EMBEE ORLANDO: vJhich is the same
h¿ight it is now?
r'1R. GARRETSON: Yes.
'-::HAIRI^IOHAl'l OL I VA, : Jim.
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO, ND questions,
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CHAIRWûr.1_;;N OLIVA: Is there an-jrbc'1dy in the
~udience that wishes to speak for or ag~illst this
application? If ne,t, I'll makE:: a motioll to ,=:lose
the hearing and reserve decision until later.
(See minutes for resolution.)
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CHAIRl'lor~AN DLIVA, Our next: applicat:i,:m is
f·::"'l" Racanelli c,n ['·1anhasset Þ."1".T.:::nue in (3Teenpf.Jl"t fDr
,~ single side yard.
["IS. r~OORE: ¡'1e. and ¡'Irs. Racanelli and t:wc,
Jf their three childr2n are here watching, thelr
first experience with gO~Ternment.
We had gott:en from t:he architect: the
3imensicns which we had the surveyor cOllfirm alld
·c¡ll the dimensions ha're been confirmed Ly t,he
sur':.Tey that's in front of 'l'ou. I'Ie haT,T~ an
existing lot coverage of 1,343, 25.3 percent let
,~G~eragE. The proposed lot co~erage is 1,547, 29
percent lot coverage as you recall from our
previous application. This is a significant
reduction from its original proposal. WE llave
tried tD address the concerns of the neigllbors,
which I relayed to Mr. and Mrs. Racanelli. What
we are dealing with here is a difference in only
21)~ square feet between the exi2ting square
footage and the proposed square footage. 1 put:
togetller a written description as well as all the
¿xhibits with the Exhibit A shGWS the e:{isting
structure. You can see that the lot is quite
[larrOW, it's anI)' 44.93 in depth, 100 feet in
l.::-ngth, two front yards becausoS e,f I'¡Ianh?tsset and
WDod Lane. So we have restrictiens from
,,=,-¡-er'/where here, and we're tr:,rin9 to WOLk \,r"¡ithin
the 9uidelines of the code and the Lestrictions
that are in place.
The neighbor came in last time .3lld
~xpressed her views, which as I said, we tried to
~ddress. I also looked at: her propert¥ card,
WlllCh reflects that the original house cllat was in
place here in 1990 when they came in to reno,.rate,
Essent:lall¥ do what the Racanellis are trying to
j(-" here today, the'l' were abl~ t·:::::', do wich':Jut_
,.rariances because at the time, as long as ~·ou
.':::tayed within your existing foc,tprint, :"DU didn't
have to go for a variance. The~' got wh?tt the~·
wanted with 110 '!ariances whatsoe",Ter. Lc)t co\rerage
was Ilever addressed, and there are sheds and so 011
that are not shown on this tax propert~· card,
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_Z'..ugust 19, 2004
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Wllich again don't address lot co~:erage. So I
-'antt tell what the lot coverage is on tllis
tl¿igllbor's property but we have 'fEr}" cGmparat)le ~s
far as the house goes, a comparable hC'llse tr~'illg
to be built here. There is all existing llOUSE, it
is in poor condition. It's st~~red in tIle famil~' a
"é'r~' long time. The daught:er of the ori,ginal
,~wner and her famil)' want to fix it up. I know
tildt was an expressed concern at the last llearing
about the condition and how bad it: looks. That's
precisely wh~/ they're here, \vhich is to make a
¡nsJor in~_restment and reno~.rate, redo what is a
110use that needs some attention.
So we I re here to try tG answer ~"'Jur
~1uestions. I ha\'e the family h02re so if there's
anythin9 that comes up that I ':::3-n't address or :.-r,:::,u
want to ask them specifically, we'll tr~r to
~ddress all the questions.
CHldRWOI'IAN C,LIVA: Jim?
BOARD I'IEMBER DINIZIO: No, I hac/e nc,
qUEstlons.
CHAIRW()!~AN OLIVA: L,,'dia?
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: It's a little less
~han '~/ou or i'Jinall'"../ pre,posed beca.use IV)I,t.J ::ou d,.:)n' t
h¿r:~ that hU'JE -- this is two 2 t,.:::;ries, lsn't It?
HS. MOORE: It: still remains as a
two-story, but all the rooms ha~!e been sllrunk.
BOÞ,RD r1E[V)BER TORTORA: ¡'·I" quest ion is '/er,'
simple: So the basic footprint of the two-st(J~~r
footprint, one floor is what now square footage?
MS. MOORE: The first floor is --
BC,ARD ME!~BER TORTORÞ,: 42 by --
MS. MOORE: No, 33, take a look at tllis
one, here.
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BOARD ¡~EI'IEER TORTORA: 42 . 6 .
MS. MOORE, Yes, which 1S the exist:ing
length presently. The difference is in the dept:h.
Th~ original has the EncrG~chment -- I w~nt to
:=.~ll it an encroachment, the house goes to about
t:hree feet off the back property line. That is
being cut off so that we have t:he greater set:back,
~'~'! taking the majority of the existin9 foe,tprillt
tha.t I s there I that being the cl,:;,sest point _ I·>=~~t='
ill mind that the adjacent propert~r owner, agaln
w~'re on 3 corner lot, so we ha~~ the difficulty
that the house is a.lready positioned fä,:'ing t"lood
I"ane, so that is our considered setback that we're
k8eping to the existing foundation.
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Augu;::;t 1~.r, 200'-:1:
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BOARD ¡~Er~BER TOP.TORA:
',',f the Iwuse?
MS. MOOP.E, The only additional width is
the difference between 27 and 33.3. It's
architectural features going towards Wood Lan~
wtlich add some additional building footprint.
BOARD ['!EMBER TORTOEA: So it's ¿ 7 b:,'
What is the width
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HS. ¡'IOORE, The exist ing house if ':ou
ion't include the stoop that protrudes ;~ut. We
talked about that the existing footprint is 24,
whi~h protrudes towards the rear neighbor and the
llew footprint protrudes towards Wood Lane. S,=, we
llave switched it to minimize the nonconformit~·, at
l~ast to the rear 'lard, I don't know, rear side In
this kind of combination.
EOAED SECY. KC>WALSKI: Is that proposed
,~dditioll 6'311 on that jog on Wood Lane?
MS. MOORE: six foot three to be exact.
BOARD SECY. EO\1ALSKI: Thank you. The
,y:erall \'lidth of the house would ~hange from 37 t(,
33 at that point?
¡-IS. ['~OORE: Yes. ¡^lith that bow ,,,indo,,, Dr
bow architectural feature.
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BOÞ.RD MEMBER TORTORA:
:::'onfus ing me.
MS. MOORE: It's irregular feature, that's
wllat's confusing, irregular shape.
BC'ARD MEMBER FJRTORl,: ¡vhere l'c'u ha'le this
j a'9ged 1 ine, whr::re the be,w windovl is, t ll"~re lS no
jistance so it's not 27.
That's what's
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MS. MOORE: No, it's 11' 6" to Woad Lane.
We took the closest point.
BOARD MEMBER TORTOP.Þ,: vlha t about the
",ther side?
t·1S. r-100RE: The Gther side is Ie' 8.5".
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: ¡'lhat is the width
cf the hcuse there?
MS. MOORE, I'm not sure I wlderstand,
which width?
BOARD ¡,IEMBER TORTORA: The width:Jf the
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MS. MOOP.E: Is a total of 27.
BC'ARD MEMBER TOP.TORA: 27 plus ',vhat?
r'lS. tv100RE: 27 that's it, 27' ~~ II .
CHAIRWOMÞ,N OLIVA, How high is this ':J'Oing
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tJ) be?
¡-IS. ¡'¡OORE,
Take a look at E;.:hibit I
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August lS!, 2004
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had ehe archieect give me a diagram. The mean,
'dhich is the measurement for the town, the mean
r,=',c,f is 27' 10" to midway, then it goes to the
f-"E.-ak, another 33' ion.
BOARD SECY. KOWALSKI: At the wideet point
ehreê 33 by 42.6.
CH.;;IRWOI'IAN OLIVÞ~: 33 feet to the p¿ak:
1"IS. MOORE: fes. Tc the tip tcp.
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: 'fcu' re g~ing to end
up 11 feet from Wood Lane?
MS. MOORE: 11' 6" is th¿ proerusion that
lS llot to the peak, it's an architectural feature
th~t it's kind cf a double bow window.
I'I!R. RACANELLI: It's a cove, iE reality
it's a room which is so small ill order to giT:e it
a little design for it. It's a little cove
designed by the architêct to givê ehe lighting
c,~ming from all sides. Because the reom is tOG
~mall, and just a little small window in the
front, ie would be like almost likê a w~lk-in
,'~:losest .
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EOAP.D SECY KOIHALSKI: Is ie one-seor.,·?
HR. RACANELLI, No. It's two-story, ie
pi,=:ks up the bedroom up abo"l"n:: b;..::cause with m",,'
threê kids I've added four bedrooms because
c-riginall...., the one frame house e~.Terybod....,r V.las
sClueezing on top of each other, and my kids were
small, it was fine. Bue no"¡ that my kids are
,'Jlder, the oldest one is 22, the~r all want their
roome. SC1 we're trj'ing to --
r'1S. t-10C'RE: Give them each a bedroom
chat's a little larger than a closest.
CHlHR\1Œ~AN OLIVÞ,: Vincent?
BDARD HEMBER ORLANDO, I can und¿l~seand
','c;,ur cQmpassion to the house, e,:.:eryone has thoS- ir
fantasy house they want to live in someday.
Unfortunatel~' you've picked a 5,000 square f0Gt
lot to put a beautiful house cn, unfortunatel....r
it'e on~-eighth of an acre. It's ~er}' small, and
¿...·erywhe1'e has reservations on setbacks 11e1'e and
l:)t co"/erage as well. Is there any possible way
t(~ stay -- I have no problem with the proposed
rT?trage there -- is there any viay to sta....· within
ch~ 19 feet setback on Wood Lane?
HR. RACÞJ'JELLI, ¡1hae we did was ehe l~eaSGn
W1l~T we came forward a little bit in the back WE
!tad eh¿ littl¿ jagged, which was in back of ehe
r,ropert~r to the neighbor, which is onl~' a thr~e
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AU':Just 1SI, 2004
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foot space in between. So when we came witll tile
first applications and they told us that the house
was enormous whatever, so I went back 31ld sllrullk
the envelope. What I did was on the orlginal
'pplicatÜm you had jagged to the back 'cJmin-:¡ J,ff
tile kitchen, which was about two foot.
BCIARD MEfJIBER ORLANDC): C3.nt i le"':.~¿red .:i few
fe'Ot out.
HE. EACANELLI: Right, I'le got rid of that
~nd I pushed the fram'O straight with the existing
foundation of the basement. So I got rid of that
~'2" foot by 15, and what I did was I brought it
t,:::,rward ::lnd brought it in here because ...."()u
Jriginall~' had the stoop, if you look at the lnla~'
you had the stoop that goes beyond that point of
the house itself.
I'IS. I'JIOORE: It's 5'911 b....· 5'7".
]'1R. RACANELLI, So I understood the
,~GnCe1'rl of the neighbors, and I understood ttle
Be,ards.
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BOARD r1EI'IBER ,:,RLANDO: This is g,:e,ing te, t~
a multiple ~ariance house no matter what? It's
gOlng to be two front yards actually. It's going
to be lot coverage.
¡'IS. I'100RE:
Yes,
if
you take under the old
fc,c,tprint, ,'ou'd still
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be a ~.~3Xl3-nce.
BOÞJW !1EMBER ORLANDO: \'le' re nDt t l,-ing to
~'3t()P you frcm li"ving here, just m'/ opini·:¡n, \:,Te'1'e
just tr1ring to ha"v~e semething compatible t<) this
l,:)t tc:) this neighborhí)cd. If yeu could shrink the
front back to that, '/ou're still going tc need
~'\~,ur variances it's only 19 feet, still '30iniJ t,~,
b'O lot coverage, I don't know what the lot
~oT!erage will be, maybe down to low 208 nla1rbe, I
Jcn't kn:::,w. Right no\,'/ you're about 3 Û, ¿ ~I
~::~,~',mE:thing .
HS. MOORE, 29 period. Look at the survey
W'O verified, it's Dnly 1,547 square fe'Ot.
¡,JR. RACANELLI: 1,547. The difference is
between the old and new is 204 feet.
BOARD I'1Er·1BER ORLÞ,NDO: '"f the first flc,,:e,r,'
MS. MOORE: Yes, BC double it, ~00.
BOARD MEMBER TOETORA: It's still a v'Ory
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big house on a ~~"ery small lot.
MS. MOORE: True. But look at your
fleighbor that has built identicall~r, tile onl~"
,jifference is it wasn't a corn2~ lct an,j it built
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i_1r', and it's right on top of this propert~·.
BOARD ¡'IE¡~BER TDRTORA: So in other ';I()rds,
':!è just ,:cntinue the pattern¡ is that \·]hat ·:·:Ju're
,;à'/ing?
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MS. MOORE: I think that realistically che
palues of pr,:::;perties 3.re there. These :'ire 5m3-Il
Jne-story cottages that to buy a house like thiE
is a $3ûû,OOO price tag.
BC',I\.RD MEMBER ORLANDO: I chink ,':JU' 'ie jus t
sald what our concern 15. We give you 11-6 here,
-.,'Ie can't st,::JP an"y"one else down the whol..:: road
doing 11-6. So we IlEed to draw a line in the sand
s'c,mepla,=e.
MS. MOORE: I understand. The ~haraccer
of the area, look at the houses.
BOARD ME¡~BER ORLANDO: I'm saj'ing m,'self
persollally, I'm not denying th~ person to build on
cheir own footprint plus the garage there. What's
ç.r,=..,c,d for them is good for you I In my Oplnlc.n I and
chat's still 19 feet from the road. No Dther
luestic,ns or comments from me.
CHAIRWDMAN OLIVA; Jim?
BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: If they did 19 feet
from tIle road, I don't think the~' need a 'fariance
f,~r that because the house next door seems to be
~bout the same. You might be right.
MS. MOORE: The setback?
BOARD SECY. KO\^lALSKI: ¡' ember Dinizio said
che 19.7 feet is the same as whac the neighbor is
next door, so he might not need a variance if 11e
stayed at that.
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I think we're here regardless
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BOARD ¡'ŒMBER DINIZIO;
minimize that.
HS. 1'100RE: I underscand chat.
BO,I\.P.D ¡'1EI'1BER ORLÞ,NC'O: I agree thac s=me
()f those houses down there is larger, but eT,'en
t'do-stor....· on that original footprint is larg¿r.
r~1R. RACPiliELLI: They also built 3.. new CH1e
three or four houses down on Wood LanE, which went
t\··h) stc-ries. E'lerybody's been building up. ('nee
t he kids get older, '.:ou ha're a ,;:·ot. tage, v·:hen it.' E
husband and wife and a little baby, you put her in
:i. little crib, you're fine. But once the: kids get
,..:.,lder, ....·ou can't conf ine them t,::::· a small¿r rr..:.¡om.
I understand you ha~,re ~lariances, I und.s-rstand ~'ou
(:¡ant to keep conformity with th,,=, area, like ~:l)U
We're lG0king to
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~3-id, if I gi\re you SOD, I should gi,;/e him 1, IJI)O,
or I should give him two, which I reall~ do
understand that. When we first came witll the
application, because right now the plans that were
originally brought in are really worthless. So I
.-!,::mld ha'le to go back and redo e'ler:.:thing all C'leL"
~gain because the room sizes, the changes, tlle
space of the hallway and the rooms upstairs, I
still have to do four bedrooms. but they're ~)ing
t(J be minimized. I understand about ttl~ cOT:e,
·.'1tuch gi'ies you 11.6 to \-lood Lane, that' s wh:.' I
»~s hGping with the giving up of the extra three
f~et in the back to the neighbor on my rear and
also pushing 15 awa~r because there was an existing
stL"ucture that my father-in-law built, which was
Jllly about three feet awa~' from the neiJhborl from
Larr~T, so I'm willing to pull back 15 S,) it wr~uld
~Jl T.re them more room on that. I ',vas hoping ,:-'c,ming
to an understanding that that little co~e, which
is Olll~r about eight feet wide, wtlich sticks on to
11'6'1 because the rest of the house is back
fllrther, wouldn't be so much of a problem.
BCARD MEMBER T,JRTORA: 'íou' re t radin.::¡ cne
T:::triance for another. I think what j":::;u' re hearin'3
lS that's not what -- we just think it's too
rnur::..h.
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CHAIRwm~AN OLIVA: I kn,:)w the neighboL"s are
here, they would like to speak.
MS. MOORE: We'll let them speak.
[vIS. TZANNES: Carlina Tzannes. Thallk '".lOU
"eCl much for faxing me the papers. I like the
IlGUse. It's nice. The onl~' question is, th¿
e~isting foundation he's going to build in the
~xi5ting foundation, right, the house?
BC'ARD 1'~Er~BER ORLÞ,NDC,: In the F'ar.
BOARD r"lEI"IBER TORTOR.'\.: But in the fL"'=nt
h"?' s prope,sing to come out closer to the re,ad.
1"1S. TZANNES: Let me staL"t on m'" side and
I'm going to come on the front. Hels buildin'3 in
the 2:>:isting foundatiGn, and the:: h3-\Te :::t small
,~.\lujoing - - a small thing so this is gOing to be
~emo\'ed as I see ill tIlE plan, right? Q]zay. ~,~
chey say here 6.3, okay, my fit is going 7.3, I
lL'i"',~e a small fit, that's fine. Þ-bsolut.::-l'/ I ,j':Hl't
Il~~re 3- problem with that, and I'm glad he's g,~ing
tG build a house because my area, our street is
soing to look better. I don't have a problenl with
the garage, reall~r, alld as I see here, the plan
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wlth the architecturally is really coz~· house,
coz~· llice house, which I don't ll~ve a problem e~en
if he's going to come out with this cur~re.
CHAIRWc.r~AN OLIVA: Ba,' 'dindow.
HS. TZANNES: It' s reall~/ cozy house and
nlc:e house because If m a decorator. I' rn ,j,=..ing
this lob tOO, so I can see that is going to loo]~
JGod. For me, I don't have a problem. Just Qnl~·
my concern is for my house and my dri\Te\,·¡a'.J.'·, I
need -- the build house in existing foundation, go
llP, that's all I need. After that, I don't ha\re a
problem. If he's going Co do chis in the front of
the house, looks good, cozy, llice, we going to
look all good. All we try to look good, right,
e~.Terybody. Me, personally, I don't ha',re that
problem. The only thing I need, the old
foundation's going up for my section, period.
That's it. He can de whatever ~'OU decide, okay.
Thank you 'fer',! much and I'm glad he'scping to do
it. So I'm not going to cut the grass for IS
"Tears. Thank you ';lerjT much.
CHAIRwor·1AN OLIVA: An,' e,cher questions fr,=,m
t::he Board? þ,..nybody else cut there wish to speak
f':·r cJr against?
BO}\.RD MEr1BER ORLANDC,: Pat, did ::ou want
sa.,,' something?
MS. MOORE: I think what was poinced out
is we have tried to design wich the neighbors in
mind, that Wood Lane is not going to impact
neighbors; it's an architectural feature; it's
·jesigning, as she said, tr~Ting to design something
Ilicer than a box. So, if ~TOU keep that in miIld,
we uIlderstand your reluctance to give a little
bigger, a little bigger next time arou~d. This is
t~rying to design a plan thac wlII be in keeping,
l:::,ut in the positi~\le way, impn:::r.ring the
neighborhood. So JUBt keep that in mind whell
~'Gu/re considering this application.
BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: \tIe' re not target ing
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24
¡'IS. I'100RE: I' 'Je been here enough, I know
':'cur philosophy.
CH:ZÜRWc.r,IAN OLIV:z.,: I'll lTlake a mot ion
,~losing the hearing and reserving decision UIltil
later.
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¡See minutes for resolution.!
(Time ended: 12:45 p.m.)
August l~', 200-4
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C E R T I F I CAT ION
I, Florence V. Wiles, Notar~' Public f,':>r tl1e
St~te of [Jew York, do hereb~r certify:
THAT the within transcript is a tru2 record of
th~ testimony given.
I further certify that I am not related by
bl,:)od or marriage, to an1T of the parties t':J this
:;r.:::,tion; and
THAT I am in no wa~r interested in the outcome
'=f this matter.
IN InTIJESS WHEREC,F, I ha\'e hereunto set m~'
tl~nd this 19th day of August, 2004.
Florence V. Wiles
i:~
Þ.ugust is', 200..,J,