HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-08/14/2001REGULAR MEETING
A Regular Meeting of the Southold Town Board was held on August 14, 2001, at the Southold
Town Hall, Southold, New York. Supervisor Cochran opened the meeting at 4:30 P.M. with the Pledge
of Allegiance led by Town Clerk Neville.
Present:
Supervisor Jean W. Cochran
Justice Louisa P. Evans
Councilman William D. Moore
Councilman John M. Romanelli
Councilman Brian G. Murphy
Councilman Craig A. Richter
Town Clerk Elizabeth A. Neville
Town Attorney Gregory A. Yakaboski
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: May I have a motion to approve the audit of bills for August 14, 20017
Moved by Councilman Moore, seconded by Justice Evans, it was
RESOLVED that the following bills be and hereby are ordered paid: General Fund Whole Town bills
in the amount of $163,920.07; General Fund Part Town bills in the amount of $2,883.33; Highway
Fund Whole Town bills in the amount of $60,879.63; Highway Fund Part Town bills in the amount of
$242,096.69; CHIPS (Highway Part Town) bills in the amount of $21,210.20; Capital Projects
Account bills in the amount of $14,575.00; Landfill Cap & Closure bills in the amount of
$130,944.95; Open Space Capital Fund bills in the amount of $3,227.25; Community Preservation
Fund (2% Tax) bills in the amount of $2,870.00; Computer System Upgrade bills in the amount of
$454.00; Compost Land Acquisition bills in the amount of $159,832.75; Employee Health Benefit Plan
bills in the amount of $6,762,96; Fishers Island Ferry District bills in the amount of $56,769.92;
Refuse and Garbage District bills in the amount of $28,909.06; Southold Wastewater District bills in
the amount of $855.17; Fishers Island Sewer District bills in the amount of $439.08; Southold Agency
& Trust bills in the amount of $5,976.45; Fishers Island Ferry District Agency and Trust bills in the
amount of $512.78.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: To set the next regular Town Board meeting for Tuesday, August 28,
2001 at 7:00 P.M.
Moved by Justice Evans, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
RESOLVED that the next regular meeting of the Southold Town Board will be held at 7:00 P.M.,
Tuesday, August 28, 2001 at the Southold Town Hall, Southold, New York.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
I. REPORTS.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: As you know each month the Board receives from and/or the
departments or different committees reports. They are on file with the Town Clerk. They are public
information so if there is an area that you are interested in, please, feel free to come in and see Mrs.
Neville, and she will be very happy to help you with obtaining them.
1. Southold
2. Southold
3. Southold
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Town Personnel Leave Time Summary Report for June 2001.
Town Clerk Monthly Report for July 2001.
Town Recreation Department Monthly Report for July 2001.
Town Police Department Juvenile Aid Bureau Monthly Report for July 2001.
Town Justice Bruer's Monthly Court Report for July 2001.
Town Scavenger Waste Treatment Facility Monthly Report for July 2001.
Town Program for the Disabled July 2001 Events.
Town Justice Evans' Monthly Court Report for July 2001.
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9. Southold Town Justice Price's Monthly Court Report for July 2001.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Public notices, we have one from the Department of Environmental
Conservation. It is an application by the Mattituck Park Commission to demolish an existing building,
and you may give written comments to the DEC up until August 31, 2001. We also have a public
notice in relation to Department of Environmental Conservation to demolish an existing building and
construct a new one on Laurel Way in Mattituck. Again, with the comments by August 31,2001. Also
from the United State Corp of Engineers an application from John Nickles Beixedon Dredging
Association for maintenance dredging in Petty's Pond Inlet. Comments written up until September 3,
2001.
1. New York State Department of Environmental Conservation Notice of Complete Application
of Mattituck Park Commission to demolish existing building and construct a one story storage
and office building at Bay Avenue and Peconic Bay Boulevard, Mattituck, Town of Southold.
Written comments by August 11,2001.
2. New York State Department of Environmental Conservation Notice of Complete application of
Bostic Property to demolish exiting building and construct a new single family dwelling at
2635 Laurel Way, Mattituck, Town of Southold. Written comments by August 31, 2001.
3. United State Corps of Army Engineers, NY District, Notice of application of John J. Nickles
and Beixedon Dredging Association to maintenance dredge with beach nourishment and upland
disposal at Petty's Pond Inlet, Southold Bay, Town of Southold.
III. COMMUNICATIONS.
1. Heather Lanza, Nature Conservancy in regard to providing service.
2. Paul Daniel in regard to the Noise Ordinance.
3. Mary Mulcahy, North Fork Audubon Society in regard to fundraising event on September 22,
201.
4. Mrs. George Weymouth in regard to support for the Fishers Island Ferry District upgrading of
the New London terminal.
5. Assemblywoman Acampora to Town Clerk Neville in regard to inactive Records Grant Award
of $12,778.
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS. None
V. RESOLUTIONS.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: As you know before the Board passes any of the resolutions we ask if
there is any comment from those of you attending. We also have a period at the end of the business
part of the meeting were residents may address the Town Board on any Town topic. So, at this point if
anyone would like to speak in relation to printed resolutions on the agenda we would be very happy to
hear those comments now. Anyone like to talk on any of the resolutions pro or con? (No response.) If
not we will begin the action.
#567
Moved by Councilman Richter, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
RESOLVED that Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes and directs Town Clerk
Elizabeth A. Neville to advertise for the a member of the Board of Trustees Employee Health
Benefit Fund.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#568
Moved by Councilman Richter, seconded by Justice Evans, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the General
Fund Whole Town 2001 budget as follows:
To:
Revenues:
A.2705.40 Gifts and Donations
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Other Donations $1,238
Appropriations:
A.3120.4.100.900 Police, C.E.
Miscellaneous Supplies
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
$1,238
Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
#569
Moved by Councilman Murphy, seconded by Justice Evans, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Clerk Elizabeth Neville to re-advertise for Land Preservation members.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#57O
Moved by Councilman Romanelli, seconded by Councilman Richter, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the General Fund
Whole Town 2001 budget as follows:
FROM:
A7020.4.400.550
A7020.4.100.550
A7180.4.600.300
TO:
A7180.4.100.100
Vote of the Town Board:
Softball Leagues
Sports Equipment
Beach Personnel Mileage
$ 500.00
255.08
200.00
Beach & Lifeguard Supplies $ 955.08
Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#571
Moved by Councilman Richter, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby accepts the bid of
Crowley Constructiom P.O. Box 618~ Greenport~ NY 11944~ in the amount of $18~900. to supply
the labor, material and equipment to install a new beach assess stairway at Sound Drive, Greenport,
NY 119444, in accordance with the plans and specifications prepared by James Richter, Town
Engineer.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#572
Moved by Councilman Romanelli, seconded by Justice Evans, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes Supervisor
Jean W. Cochran to sign an agreement with Crowle¥ Constructiom P.O. Box 618,
Greenport, NY 11944 to supply the labor, materials and equipment to install a new beach
assess stairway at Sound Drive, Greenport, NY 11944, in accordance with the plans and specifications
prepared by James Richter, Town Engineer, subject to the approval of the Town Attorney.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#573
Moved by Justice Evans, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby accepts the resignation of Jason
Burden from his position as part time gatekeeper at the Solid Waste Management District
effective August 17, 2001.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
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#574
Moved by Justice Evans, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby accepts the resignation of Mark
Doty as the Supervisor's Deputy Emergency Preparedness Coordinator for Fishers Island
effective immediately.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#575
Moved by Councilman Richter, seconded by Justice Evans, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby appoints Roger M. Tabor to the
position of full-time Laborer for the Highway Department, at a starting salary of $14.2251 per hour
effective August 30, 2001.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#576
Moved by Justice Evans, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
WHEREAS there has been presented to the Town Board of the Town of Southold, Suffolk County,
New York on the 14th day of August, 2001, a Local Law entitled "A Local Law in Relation to
Changing an Existing Yield sign to a Stop Sign on Custer Avenue at the intersection of
Gardiner's Lane, Southold", now, therefore, be it
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold will hold a public hearing on the
aforesaid Local Law at the Southold Town Hall, 53095 Main Road, Southold, New York on the 28th
day of August, 2001 at 7:30 p.m., at which time all interested persons will be given an opportunity to
be heard.
This proposed "Local Law in Relation to Local Law in Relation to Changing an Existing Yield
sign to a Stop Sign on Custer Avenue, Southold, New York", which reads as follows:
I. Chapter 92, Section 92-30 (Vehicles & Traffic) of the Code of the Town of Southold is
hereby amended as follows:
Stop Sign on Direction At Inter- Hamlet
Of Travel section with
Custer
II.
III.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
Avenue East Gardiner' s Lane Southold
Severability. If an section or subsection, paragraph, clause, phrase or provision of this
law shall be judge invalid or held unconstitutional by any court of competent
jurisdiction, any judgment made thereby shall not affect the validity of this law as a
whole or any part thereof other than the part or provision so adjudged to be invalid or
unconstitutional.
This Local Law shall take effect immediately upon filing with the Secretary of State.
Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
#577
Moved by Councilman Romanelli, seconded by Councilman Richter, it was
WHEREAS the Town Board of the Town of Southold authorized the wage increases of certain part-
time Fishers Island Ferry District personnel at the June 19, 2001 meeting, resolution #443; and
WHEREAS Anthony Mirabelli was inadvertently omitted from that list of persons to receive
increases; NOW THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED that the hourly wage rate for Anthony Mirabelli be set at $10.71 per hour effective
June 21~ 2001.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#578
Moved by Justice Evans, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
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RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby appoints Daniel J. BURNS be
employed as a part-time deckhand for the Fishers Island Ferry District, at a wage rate of $8.00
per hour effective August 2, 2001.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#579
Moved by Councilman Romanelli, seconded by Councilman Richter, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby terminates the employment of
Anne C. TuthilL Home Health Aide in the Programs for the Aging~ effective immediately.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#580
Moved by Councilman Richter, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby terminates the employment
Laurie J. Como~ Recreation Specialist in the Programs for the Aging~ effective immediately.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#581
Moved by Councilman Romanelli, seconded by Councilman Richter, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby terminates the contract with
Bruce Berger~ Massage Therapist in the Programs for the Aging, effective September 13, 2001.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Should we explain all this?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes, maybe we should. We have terminated these contracts. We did
have a grant from the State for a message therapist up in our Nutrition Center in Mattituck, and we
have lost the grant. It is as the result of the budget. A bare bones budget was passed the Legislature but
many things, including Land Preservation money has been removed, so we are hopeful that some of it
will be put back. This may be only the beginning, because we have other State grants, and this is the
first we have received notice that it is not there. We may have more of this.
#582
Moved by Justice Evans, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby supports Cornell Cooperative
Extension in their grant application for "Marine Activities for Seniors" (MAPS) to the AARP
Andrus Foundation under their Innovation Grant Program
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#583
Moved by Justice Evans, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby appoints Alan Thibodeau
temporarily to the position of Deputy Emergency Preparedness Coordinator for Fishers Island.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#584
Moved by Justice Evans, seconded by Councilman Romanelli, it was
WHEREAS there has been presented to the Town Board of the Town of Southold, Suffolk County,
New York on the 14th day of August, 2001, a Local Law entitled "A Local Law in Relation to Local
8/14/01 6
Law in Relation to Changing an Existing Yield sign to a Stop Sign on Clearview Avenue at the
intersection of Gardiner's Lane, Southold', now, therefore, be it
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold will hold a public hearing on the
aforesaid Local Law at the Southold Town Hall, 53095 Main Road, Southold, New York on the 28th
__ day of August, 2001 at 7:32 p.m., at which time all interested persons will be given an opportunity
to be heard.
This proposed "Local Law in Relation to Local Law in Relation to Changing an Existing Yield
sign to a Stop Sign on Clearview Avenue, Southold, New York", which reads as follows:
III. Chapter 92, Section 92-30 (Vehicles & Traffic) of the Code of the Town of Southold is
hereby amended as follows:
Stop Sign on Direction At Inter- Hamlet
Of Travel section with
Clearview Avenue West Gardiner's Lane Southold
IV. Severability. If an section or subsection, paragraph, clause, phrase or provision of this
law shall be judge invalid or held unconstitutional by any court of competent
jurisdiction, any judgment made thereby shall not affect the validity of this law as a
whole or any part thereof other than the part or provision so adjudged to be invalid or
unconstitutional.
III. This Local Law shall take effect immediately upon filing with the Secretary of State.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
#585
Moved by Councilman Romanelli, seconded by Councilman Richter, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby designates Michael Verity as the
department head for the Building Department effective August 15~ 2001.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly ADOPTED.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: That is the end of our planned resolutions as a result of the day's work.
We have no public hearings this evening, so at this time I would just like to share some of the
information with you before I ask for comments from the audience. There is going to be East End
Vision Workshops, and this is a part of the SEEDS intuitive. It is a series of public outreach meetings
to launch the Sustainable East End Development Strategies. That is where SEEDS comes from. This is
something that is supported by all five East End towns. It grew out of setting up a Transportation
Council and starting to deal with transportation and it's problems on the East End as a regional area,
rather than five individual towns, because what Riverhead does affects us, and what Southampton
affects Easthampton, so through the East End Supervisors we brought our Town Planners together, and
they were the nucleus of this Transportation Commission. We added to it a member from the
Department of Public Works for the County, the DOT, the Long Island Railroad, and the really have
done some fine work. So, this is going to be a meeting for anyone that is at all interested, and it is
going to be at the Southold High School auditorium on August 25th from 9200 to 11200. It will be to
share transportation and land use visions for the East End of Long Island. So, your input is very vital to
the East End Transportation Council and the East End Supervisor's Association. So, again the date is
Saturday, August 25th from 9200 to 11200 over here at the Southold School. At this time I would
entertain any comments from the audience, anything you would like to share with the Board. Yes, sir?
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI: Dominic Mautarelli from Factory Avenue, Mattituck. I am here in regard
to the proposed development for the Factory Avenue area, and as a resident I was wondering, first of
all, there is an amendment today on the Zoning Code provision, is that regarding the accessory
apartments that development can be built?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Give me your question again.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI:: I have a few questions. The first one is about the amendment that I see
here.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: That we talked today in relation to accessory apartments?
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DOMINIC MAUTARELLI: Right, so a complex like that can be built on Factory Avenue?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: No, we have had accessory apartments as part our Code in the past. We
are refining some of the affordable housing code. Greg, I don't want to answer this wrong. It will
apply.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: It will apply. Any changes to the AHD Law there was some talk
at the Work Session today, and any changes would go through...it is a little off your question, but are
just seeing over the process. Any changes or proposed changes to any of the Code, including the
Affordable Housing Code would go through a local law process, which involves a public hearing. It is
posted. It is noticed all the changes. It is not direct to your question, but then on top of that any
changes, which are made to the AC Code itself any projects, which are out there, either present or
further, that Code would govern those projects.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI: Now regarding that particular project I would like to know what type of
study is being done to see what type of impact it is going to have on the environment in the area, and
most importantly on the traffic in the area?
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Under the AHD Code.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI: No, under that particular development.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Correct. Generically any project, and we will stick with the
AHD projects, if you look at the AHD Code you are talking about environmental impact, and
environment study, a SEQRA Study would have to be done. It hasn't been done yet, but it would have
to be done as part of the process.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI: How long would that take?
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: There is no answer to that. It depends on how in-depth the study
becomes. There usually is a study, an Environmental Assessment Form, and depending what comes up
from it you might go more in depth, you might go less in depth. Depends what happened you might do
very in depth because particular triggers come up. If none of those triggers come up you wouldn't go
all the way down to a Environmental Impact Statement. You might have addressed it fully. Also, in the
AD Code there is something about the Planning Board Review.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI: My concern is that living right there I see the traffic pattern, and
something right behind Factory Avenue may create hazard when it comes to a lot more cars, especially
going very close to the railroad, and things like that. The other thing is that we all take water from
Laurel Lake and basically it looks it looks to me like two yards afterward where this complex would
end that is where would end that is where the protected area starts for the Suffolk County Water
Authority. Now building a complex there may not be in the watershed, but it is going to be close. Then
you are going to put their septic tanks, and things like of that. All I asking make sure .....
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: My apologies but those type of factors are things which are
taken in as part of the Environmental Review process, also it is part of the process that comes before
the Planning Board, and also as part of the process that will go for a Local Law process, so there will
also be a public hearing before this Board. Those are the avenues where you could show those thoughts
and concerns to make sure they are in record and go before the proper Boards.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI: Any way of the local residents to be informed exactly when they are kept
up to date, when the hearing is going to be exactly.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: It is part of a zone change application, notices.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI: I am new at this.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: It was meant for you to expect you to know that, but there is a notice
process that goes out to all parties concerned.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: All adjourning neighbors.
8/14/01 8
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Within a certain radius. In addition there will notices in the
paper, The Suffolk Times, the official paper, so you can watch them there. You can also make phone
calls periodically to the Town Clerk Office, who will have the notices. There is also a bulletin board,
which is right out there. Look out through the back glass doors, which would also be posted. So, there
is a lot of different spots posting the notices.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI:: The reason I am here is because I read about it in the Suffolk Times, and
it seemed like it is something that is almost done, that we are almost there.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: No, no.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI:: So it is just a proposal, and it doesn't mean anything at this point?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It is something, but it is not down the road. It is just the beginning of the
whole process.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI: So is it possible whenever it comes we may be able to change the number
of lots, the size of the lots, make sure there is some type of a buffer zone between the existing zone and
new one, and especially with the aquifer and everything else?
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: If a good idea comes along and it makes sense to everybody that
is part of that process. It is not to say it is going to happen, not going to happen, it is all part of that
process.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: When the housing was put over here across from Dave Defriest, we have
Jane Frankie in her little 100-year-old house, and so forth, and it was a set neighborhood. Yes, they had
input. Yes. We buffered and different things.
DOMINIC MAUTARELLI: Our neighborhood is old, too. Except me.
COUNCILMAN MURPHY: There will also be Planning Board hearings on this, too. That will part of
the process, so there is a whole series of any of hearings of Planning Board before any of this would
actually take place.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board?
JAY APPLEGATE: My name is Jay Applegate, and I am here to address the Town Board as an officer
of Save Open Space Now 2000, which is a 501(c)(3) corporation, that operates here in Southold to try
to save open spaces, and I would like to address the affordable housing issue, also what has clearly
been publicized and the topic for discussion this morning in your Work Session. Our organization
basically objects to the current proposals that are being considered by the Town Board for affordable
housing as we don't believe as they are currently proposed they are structured to solve the problem of
the lack of availability of affordable housing, and also they seem to offset the very good efforts that
you have taken to attempt to preserve open space by buying development rights and land outright so
that it would not be developed. In most communities affordable housing means making subsidized
rental properties available to those who's financial circumstances do not enable them to own homes.
Such property exists in Southold Town and is frequently referred to as accessory apartments as
referred to before. Many of them are currently uninhabitable legally due to Code restrictions, but could
be occupied if appropriate changes were enacted. These spaces could then be rented out at modest
sums as opposed to building new houses for purchase, which requires saddling the owner with a
mortgage that he or she cannot afford. With or without accessory apartments attached these proposals
do not address the problem. After a recent letter to the local papers, Save Open Spaces was contacted
by an organization called Community Housing Initiatives. They provide grants of $25,000 to any
property owners, who are willing to create and/or renovate a property to provide an accessory
apartment. This group is anxious to help out in Southold as they have in Riverhead, and they are
meeting with some people in town tomorrow. I am sure they would be happy to meet with you.
Secondly, as I mentioned before the various proposals, which you are reviewing all seem to
contemplate building a new on currently undeveloped land, which flies directly in the face of saving
our towns remaining open space. Instead of granting developers the right to develop these properties
we would suggest that you ask the Land Preservation Commission and Melissa Spiro to buy the
development rights, or attempt to buy the development rights on these properties from the current
owners so they are not developed. As recently as last week Melissa reported that she had an access of
8/14/01 9
1.5 million dollars to spend, and although that amount may go up or down depending on commitments
it is still a great deal of money that is available. We would suggest that you focus on buying the
development rights from developers as well as from farmers in an attempt to put this money to work
for the reason that it was raised, preserving open space. Lastly, we would suggest that if you were truly
committed to address the affordable housing situation in a manner which is acceptable to our
community, why don't you use some of the buildings which are currently owned by the Town and
currently vacant, which could be turned into affordable housing, the Whittaker House, the Peconic
Lane School, the Depot Lane School building. You could get the grants from CHI, and you could show
the community that the Town Board is willing to lead the community in this endeavor. Many of the
current problems in the town today we believe stem from the fact that there are too many people
around. Traffic certainly is one. Noise is certainly another. Both of which you are clearly very aware
of. As a result of too many people one of the things that we don't think is needed, are any more houses.
Period. It will only exacerbate the problem. Please, listen to the people who elected you when we say
no more houses, no more cars, no more developments. There are alternatives and Save Open Space has
asked you to serious consider and pursue the proposals that I have just made, which are better for
Southold than the ones you are currently reviewing. We would pleased to meet with you at your
convenience to further discuss the topic. Thank you for your time and your attention.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Jay, we should make it clear that the Town doesn't own the Peconic
Lane School, or the Depot Lane School.
JAY APPLEGATE: I realize it is owned by the school district, but it certainly could be negotiated.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: You stated that we owned them. We do not own them.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board?
PRISCILLA HORAN: My name is Priscilla Horan, and I live down by the 57 Steps, and there is a
whole bunch of us, my neighbors, with me today. We have gotten a notification that there is a
development possibly at the end of our road. We live on Sunset Lane. They are going to call it Sunset
Court, quote, unquote, affordable housing. They want the zoning changed so they can put it in. ! am
not sure of the numbers but ten homes from anywhere from 1,500 to 2,400 square feet. Some of them
are supposed to be, quote, there will be about ten affordable, and three that would be above affordable.
First of all, we don't want the zoning land change. It is 5.7 acres, and they want to do a zoning change.
! know we are going to have a public hearing on it, but ! think ahead of time you have to know we are
going to have a public hearing on it, but ! think ahead of time you have to know how the people in our
area feel. Behind some of my neighbors is the big development going on for the senior citizens. They
are building up there now. What is the name of it? Peconic Landing. We also on the other side of us is
the Eastern Shores, which ! think has been put on hold, but it is still the possibility is there. So, our
small area there is a lot going on. We have affordable homes. They are affordable. They are accessory
apartments. We have a large density in the area of the Village of Greenport. Our school has had a lot of
density with the children in there. We have dumped on, ! think, more than enough. There is three areas
that are very close together, and ! think it should be considered that maybe somewhere else you can put
this. The size of the homes and prices that we have heard, ! am sorry, people who want to live and stay
in Southold district, ! don't think they can afford them. The prices don't seem to be affordable.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Nothing is set. From the different builders that have spoken with us, and
so forth, there is nine units down there? There are ten. What was the square footage?
JAMES MCMAHON: The information that was given to the Planning Board is a little misleading.
There are ten lots, and three of those lots, ! believe are at market, and the other seven are affordable. At
least that is the way the map shows. The application before the Planning Board is a little misleading in
that regard. That is where ! think the confusion is. One, ! think the application says something like ten
and three, but the map shops ten, three of which are at market. So there is a little discrepancy.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Okay. Jim?
JAMES DINIZIO: James Dinizio, Jr. I live on Sound Road, and first I want to thank you for giving us
the steps down there. It has been a long time. I have just a question about your For Discussion item,
8/14/01 10
number 4, the AHD zones, and it say accessory apartments, and I wonder if you can just elaborate on
it. Aren't accessory apartments allowed in the HD zone now?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Accessory apartments are legal with certain restrictions.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Under the existing Affordable Housing Law.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Not the Affordable Housing.
JAMES DINIZIO: I am talking about the district itself. Are accessory apartments allowed in those
home.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: No.
JAMES D1NIZIO: They are not. So ! am to take it that number 4 is a discussing on allowing accessory
apartments in AHD zone.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes.
JAMES DINIZIO: Well, if that is the case that in any AHD zone in Southold Town if you build a
house you can put an accessory apartment.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Not as of yet.
JAMES D1NIZIO: But this is what you are discussing. Am I right?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Whether it is new project, that was part of the discussion.
JAMES D1NIZIO: One assumes that if it is allowed in the zone, and you are in the zone.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The existing accessory apartment law has a limit on CO's issued, so the
big discussion was, is this going to be for new projects, or is it going to go back and apply to the
existing AHD zone. That was part of the discussion this morning.
JAMES DINIZIO: My concern is the AHD zone that you want to put in my area, and so I am
assuming that this is somehow has been part of that discussion. In other words, you are talking about
affordable housing zones, and you want to update what is allowed in those zones, and that is what the
discussion was about.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: It is also limited, Jim, by the project that is proposed. Accessory
apartments are part of that Sound Road project. Jim, correct me if! am wrong.
JAMES D1NIZIO: I believe they are now.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We haven't gotten to that firm point yet.
JAMES D1NIZIO: That's fine. I am assuming that this is driven by the builders.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: One project came forward with that as part of the project, an
accessory apartment attached to a home with the grant application. There were grants from the State
and County on accessory apartments attached to an owner occupied residence, an affordable project.
That is where it all started.
JAMES DINIZIO: That is allowed in Southold Town now. An owner occupied accessory apartment is
allowed.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: If it meets a certain criteria.
JAMES D1NIZIO: So, you are just looking to see if you can somehow help the AHD be more
affordable by that. ! guess my point is that if it is allowed in the zone then it is allowed in any house
built in that zone. Am ! correct?
8/14/01 11
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Jim, I think it goes back .... Jim McMahon stepped outside the
door. ! am a little confused by the question. ! think it depends on the project that is proposed. For
example, in the area again out by the folks here that are not there, so ! think your question is once those
homes are built we could then add on accessory apartments. ! guess that is how ! am interpreting your
question.
JAMES DINIZIO: In any case I am assuming your discussion on allowing accessory apartments. It is
not law now.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: It is not as of right.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Jim, what we did discuss today was, as Bill said earlier, if they go
forward can we somehow legally put restrictions on it that it can't be done to an already pre-existing
AHD zone, and or can we just put limitations on it, that it goes on to a new structure or a new project?
We battered around. ! don't think we came up with an answer today to be honest with you.
JAMES D1NIZIO: But, that is part of the discussion. I really just wanted to get what was discussed,
and that is what being discussed?
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Right. We were trying to prevent it from going backwards. Saying, I
am in an AHD zone. I have lived there six years.
JAMES D1NIZIO: Personally ! don't think you can limit somebody if they are in the zone, but you
know, more power to you, if you can come to some way of doing that.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: We didn't come up with an answer.
JAMES D1NIZIO: ! guess the next thing is that ! have been just wholly opposed to what is proposed
near my home, not necessarily that ! don't want it in my backyard. It is my backyard is full already
with affordable housing. You look at any density map of Southold Town it will indicate to you that
Greenport is the densest part of Southold Town, and Greenport has more than it's fair share of
affordable housing. That is not a comment good or bad, but it is if you are trying preserve the open
spaces in the town you have got to look at Greenport also. You mentioned Brecknock Hall, you
mentioned the other developments going in along side of. The traffic on the road, ! don't care if it is
ten cars, or fifteen cars, it really doesn't make that much difference to me. But, the point is we have the
Village of Greenport in our district. Okay? The Village of Greenport allows accessory apartments, and
they allow two family homes. Okay? We have got them, and a lot of people can afford to live in
Greenport, and that is good. Our school district is not quite bursting at the seams, but getting there, and
! feel that if you are going to want to distribute, you know, affordable housing equally amongst the
town Greenport is the last area you got to hit. ! mean ! understand Southold has some nice really
affordable houses. They are not affordable anymore. From my understanding they are very expensive
if you wanted to try to purchase one now. ! think these houses when they are built would be an asset to
the community, except for the fact that it is not allowed in that zone. ! don't want that zone to changed
to allow for the higher density. There is five acres there. ! assume it is one acre zoning. ! don't what
exactly it is. By golly, let them build five houses. That is more than enough. If you are going to do it
here ! just can't see how you say it is equitable to our school district. Now, let me get the not in my
backyard out of the way. Jean, you know very well ! stand up here every time something goes wrong
with taxes in my district ! am here, and it hasn't got anything to do with the type of person that is going
to go there, or the who is going to go there. It has to do with my school district, and the taxes that !
pay, because the taxes that ! pay are higher that the taxes of anyone of you sitting up there, except for
Craig, because he pays the same amount that ! do. It is high. Craig is familiar with the school district.
Craig is familiar with what we have and what we have to deal with. ! don't believe that we would have
any problem with ten additional families with the exception that, by golly, it has to go somewhere else.
Buy it. ! think this gentleman had a great idea. Let's put a park there. East Marion has a park. Southold
has a park. We have live off of Greenport Village's parks. Well, put one there for us. Put a nice swing
set, and maybe some nature trails or something, but let's not have the HD zone. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: ! would just like to say a couple of things, Jim. We had great concerns,
and we do have great concerns for the work force in Southold Town. Several restaurants have closed at
noon, because they couldn't find the people to serve the meals. So, there is different services that
people in the community provide to all of us, and they can't afford to live in our community. Okay?
When the committee began working on the affordable housing, and ! hate that term because it is
8/14/01 12
housing for all of our kids, and you know, people that already live and work in Southold. We tried very
carefully to put a small unit in each of the four hamlets. Okay? Mattituck, Southold, Cutchogue, and
Greenport, because we were thinking of the schools. We didn't want to burden one school district with
fifty units. We were going to share it amongst the four school districts. So, that is why it is split out in
four small projects. Some are going to be single family homes, and Jim, if ! am not saying this
correctly you can jump in and step all over me. ! don't think we really tied down what builder will put
his particular agreement will be. The only man that has come in with a plan so far is the one for
Mattituck project. ! had the word project, too. According to the Affordable Housing Law you have to
be able to qualify for a mortgage, otherwise you just don't get the house. We felt that there were some
kids that were a little under that, and with a rental, being able to collect rent, they could swing getting
their home finally. ! think there is only one now that is kind of the accessory apartment, Jim. Have the
others made an decisions yet?
JAMES MCMAHON: I think the one on Factory Avenue from what I understand it is kind of for
discussion. They were talking about 1,400 and 1,500 square feet homes, and they were all single
family with accessory apartments.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: But you are going to have to afford a mortgage. You are going to have to
live and work in the Town of Southold. That is how we have done the other projects, and you know, if
you have never driven into Jasmine Lane or Highpoint up here on Boissieu, or Elijah's Lane in
Mattituck, they really are lovely neighborhoods, that are like any neighborhood in the Town of
Southold. They all have been done nicely, and with good work. What ! think ! am trying to say is, we
need housing. It is getting desperate to the point where we have to try to keep some of these young
people in town.
JAMES D1NIZIO: I think you are absolutely right. I mean, I have two kids that I don't believe are
going to be able to afford to live here, but what ! am saying is, and what you say is partially true, Jean,
but guess what? They can afford to live in Greenport. A lot of people can afford to live in Greenport,
because that is where they are living. Now, Greenport has it's share of that. Let's move it on down.
Like ! said all the projects that you built are beautiful, but they are not affordable homes by any means
by the people certainly that live in my district. Okay? That is people are living, you know, in two
family homes in Greenport aren't going to be able to afford that, and ! am not saying they wouldn't be
an asset to my community. They would be an asset to my community, but what ! am saying is they can
afford to live within Greenport. The Village is taking care of that, which is within my school district.
Okay? We get hurt by that. What ! am saying is, if they can't afford to live in Southold, they can't
afford to live in Cutchogue, and they can't afford to live in Mattituck, then that is where your problem
is. Put it there. Do something there.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We are.
JAMES D1NIZIO: Well, ! am saying, hey, they can have mine, too.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Jim, as far as Greenport you made the statement that they can afford
to live in Greenport, there is are only two houses under $250,000 listed in the Village of Greenport for
sale.
JAMES D1NIZIO: I tell you, John. Come on down at 6:00 o'clock, and look at the bus, and watch
where that bus is going. By the time it gets to the end of Southold Town line that bus is empty. Now it
is filled in Greenport, and it is empty at the end of Mattituck, so where are they going?
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Houses for sale, we are talking about houses for sale, Jim.
JAMES D1NIZIO: I know houses for sale. I am talking about affordable.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: There is no more affordable purchases.
JAMES D1NIZIO: There are affordable in Greenport. They are more affordable than anywhere else in
Southold, and ! can prove it because people are living in Greenport.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: In rental locations, not in purchases.
8/14/01 13
JAMES D1NIZIO: Absolutely. You are absolutely right. But, if you look at a zoning map, if you look
at a density map you are going to see. Greenport is the most populated part of Southold Town. Okay?
So, let's not keep developing that. Let's spread it out a little bit. That is what ! believe that your point
is, and ! believe Jean's point is well taken, but it is not well taken enough as far as ! am concerned. It
has got to be a little bit more. Hey, what's the matter with Orient right near the firehouse? It looks like
you could put five or six houses down there. They could certainly use it and their school district could
probably use the extra kids, and then we can use the income. Am ! right?
COUNCILMAN RICHTER: One of the legitimate statements has been said here, is the development
of the Greenport hamlet. That is one of the discussions. That is why we are having these discussions
now. I think from the onset looking at each one of the hamlets was a prudent thing for us to do, to go
out and do that, to spread whatever so there was not a general impact in any one area. You do look in
our area, in that area, the density is high because we have had discussions on that. I mean the
development you were talking about wasn't even in Eastern Shores. It is Rock Cove, which is in
between the two Eastern Shores, which has approved lots available in that area. We look at Peconic
Landing, and I believe there is something close to 400 units that are going to be 387 or 389 units that
are going to be on line here within the next year or year and a half. The density in that area is heavy.
There is no doubt about it. Just look at the traffic coming out of there.
JAMES DINIZIO: Again, traffic is not really a concern at this point in time.
COUNCILMAN RICHTER: Well, it is to me.
JAMES DINIZIO: I agree, Craig, it is hard to get out of the street, but the point is if we are talking
about not being able to live in $outhold Town. Okay? That statement is more true for Southold,
Mattituck, and Cutchogue than it is for Greenport.
COUNCILMAN RICHTER: There is no doubt that one of the things that we had in discussion today,
Greenport has the residences above the commercial establishments as two family homes. You know,
we talk about save open spaces without building anymore. ! don't think that is realistic. There has to be
some building. What ! like to see the building stop? Sure ! would, because my town. ! love where !
live. What we need to do is start to utilize. We were talking about that today at a roundtable about
opening up existing housing, existing over the commercial in the hamlets, the possibility of utilizing
apartments above, and utilizing mother-daughter complexes around the hamlet centers. ! do think there
is more rental in Greenport. There is no doubt because they have accepted that, and taken on that role
to supply the housing. ! think we are looking at the rest of the town with that also.
EILEEN VERITY: Hi. I am Eileen Verity. I live on Sound Road, and everything I have written down
has already been said, but ! do have a few things ! would like to address. The houses that are proposed
on Sound Court are 1,600 and 2,400, and they start at about $150,000. (Tape change.) ! don't believe
that is an affordable home, and also having the option of renting part of that home if we think about it
my home right now is 1,800 square feet. ! don't know where ! would put somebody if! wanted to rent
to them. Where would ! put them? Make another kitchen, make another bathroom, make another
whatever for someone to come in, and ! would have to rent that. With the affordables ! just have a
question. If ! have an affordable home, and ! want to rent out, does the Board set what ! can charge for
rent because it is an affordable home?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We had a discussion on that today also in relation to controlling the rent,
how many years we can do that, because we would like to allow the homeowner to build up equity in
his residence where he lives with the accessory apartment we would like to control that rent. One of
these have really burned. It was a roundtable discussion, and we are trying to look at everything.
EILEEN VERITY: I know I would like to see a lot of young families to be able to stay in the area. I
know ! have my youngest daughter, her family. They are honestly talking about moving to Charlotte,
North Carolina. It breaks my heart, but if they have to go they have to go. ! understand. ! would like to
him stay. ! would like to see him, you know, them all stay, you know, he worked at Mullen's, and she
is a homemaker right at the moment, but you know she could get a job waitressing as you were saying,
helping somebody keep their business open as well. She helps me in my business, which is a big help
to me, and she will be sorely missed by me if we moved her. But at $160,000 with his wage that he
makes at Mullen Motors there is no way in God's name he could afford that affordable home, and
honestly if they wanted to have an accessory apartment they would probably have to charge
somewhere in the $800 to $900 a month so they could carry the mortgage.
8/14/01 14
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Jim, the mean average of a home in Southold is $273,000.
JAMES MCMAHON: $273,000. Suffolk County is $237,500.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: So, our mean average for a house in the Town of Southold is even more
expensive than the County mean average with the grants, the home program grants, and the Town
grants, and the State and so forth. We really haven't determined yet what is the lowest we can bring
these houses down to.
JAMES MCMAHON: New York State Affordable Housing Corporation provides grants of $25,000
for the single family home. They also provide a $25,000 grant for an accessory apartment, so you
could bring the total cost down by $50,000. As an example in Elijah's Lane the average home there the
mortgages were between $80,000 and $100,000. That is a one-acre lot, 1,600 square foot house. Those
houses today, four years, five years later probably are appraised at about $245,000.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: What did they pay?
JAMES MCMAHON: Their mortgages around between $80,000 and $110,000. They paid around
$130,000 to $150,000 for the house, but with the subsidy, the $30,000 subsidy, their mortgage is
actually $80,000 to $110,000, somewhere in that neighborhood.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I am sorry, Jim McMahon, he does most of housing for the Town, and he
is our Community Development.
EILEEN VERITY: Obviously there are some homes preexisting now in Southold Town, some that are
aren't in that $270,000 range that are for sale, and I am sure with Mr. McMahon help there are some
kind of grants, maybe from HUD or FHA, or something like that, that maybe we already utilize some
of the homes that are already available in Southold Town, and use those as part of our affordable plan.
I am sure that if you could find a home that is one the market now for $160,000 maybe a little fixer
upper type thing somewhere nice, and then you have some of your grants from HUD or FHA, or you
know more than I do about this.
JIM MCMAHON: I can speak a little bit about that. The Town has a Home Program. It is a down
payment assistance program that we have done for the last couple of years. It is run kind of piggyback
with the County's program where the County offers a $5,000 grant. We offer a $10,000, so in
combination a homeowner can come up with $15,000. That money, the $15,000 is applied to the
principle of the mortgage. In 2000 the first home that we had closed on was a small little house in
Mattituck for $120,000. By the end of the program year in 2000 the last home we closed on was
$190,000. We have that same program. The applications will be going out as soon as we get the public
notice, and probably with the newspaper here, I am saving myself some advertising costs, but those
applications will go out. The County money is already available. It will be interesting to see how many
people will be able to find something that they can afford, because in conjunction with this the number
that the County allows for affordable housing is something under $237,500, but income limits also said
make it impossible for somebody unless they have a tremendous amount of money in the bank to
qualify for that. As an example a family of four has a maximum income of $63,000. If a bank is will to
lend you at the max three times your income. What the County sets as the maximum really doesn't
mean anything. On average I find the income, and I think of you saw Newsday two weeks, Nassau,
Suffolk is one of the most expensive places in the nation to live, that to live on Long Island you need a
minimum of $54,000, $56,000 a year. Most of people that we have serviced under our home program
are probably in income ranges of $42,000 to maybe $52,000. Very seldom do I have people exceeding
that number. The test will be this year because the price of homes, the price of land has escalated so
much in the last year and a half it will interesting to see how many people can quality and close on
homes for our 2001.
COUNCILMAN RICHTER: Eileen, in response to what had mentioned about utilizing existing stock,
today we had a presentation with Long Island Housing Partnership, and they were talking about home
ownership, and building of new homes, and then they touched also on the rehab of existing housing
stock. We talked about the possibility of doing it in a commercial district in the hamlets, or in outlying
areas of utilizing the same thing, and they are doing that also.
8/14/01 15
EILEEN VERITY: The last little thing I would like to mention, and have you all think about is that
little parcel there is 5.7 acres. I am sure by the time he is done with the road he is going to have to put a
road in, and whatever, it is going to just a hair under five acres when he is done, or whatever. But, his
proposal right now is ten homes in that small little piece of property, and again I have no objections to
that parcel being developed. Alright? I don't care. But let's stick to something more reasonable. Five
homes, six homes, whatever, but no more than that. It is crazy to jam that many homes, especially your
accessory apartments, criteria goes through, then you know what? Instead of ten families in ten homes
there, you could actually then have twenty families in less that five acres. Now, we are talking about a
real mess, a real mess there, and there is no need to do that for a little, again, because it is my
backyard, you know since it is such a little spot of heaven. It is a quiet little area. I think up here in
$outhold Villas is beautiful. I think it is a beautiful little neighborhood. It is a great little place, but it is
certainly a lot bigger than five acres, so I hope that can just kind of keep that in mind when you go to
put this thing through that you don't want to jam ten houses on that small little acreage. Thanks a lot.
LAURIE HOLLANDER: My name is Laurie Hollander, and I am from Greenport. If I understand this
correctly it seems like this whole plan for the affordable housing is sort of a band-aid, because we have
limited amount of open space, and if we build these houses, and then people come in, and for ten years,
I think they can hold this at the affordable housing price for ten years, and then people can sell the
house at market value. Well, what happens after ten years they sell their house, and then we have to
build more houses on my open space, and where is all this open space going to come from?
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: That is an issue that we have been beating around as far as
affordable housing going back to the last three or four projects, that they are only affordable once for a
short period of time, and we tried coming up with solutions to that. Okay? That were you saw where
the accessory apartment idea came from, that would be somewhat affordable. We would try to control
that. We thought about how you control the price of the home so it stays affordable, well, it is hard to
because you want to get a family in a home at an affordable rate, and not have then feel as though it is
there home, where they want invest the equity into it. Let it be a deck, or finish the upstairs, or make
improvements to the home. If they can't receive some equity out of in the end then they will never
make improvements to it, and what did we do? We built a development that the people feel like they
will never own. It is tough issue. I don't have an answer.
LAURIE HOLLANDER: I agree with you, so that just leaves to conclude that maybe this isn't the
right solution, because you are totally right. I won't want to make the situation where people wouldn't
improve their homes, and they start looking like slums. So, then maybe this isn't the right solution for
us, because it just means that after people have their ten years we are going to have to destroy more
open space. So, maybe we need to look for different solutions.
COUNCILMAN RICHTER: I think that is part of what our discussion is in, different directions that
we are looking at has gone. The last number of project I think, Jim, there is stipulations of seven years
on the affordability?
JIM MCMAHON: On the very beginning, now the requirement is ten.
COUNCILMAN RICHTER: Ten years, and you know quite frankly you are losing your affordable
stock. I think in the beginning when this was undertaken the thought was to move on to another
residence, and leave that stock as affordable stock. That is not working. I think that is why we are
looking at other avenue in trying to come about. To some extent the American dream has been for
many years to own your own home, your own piece of property. I hate to say it on Long Island that is
not happening any more. Things are just so expensive. One of the things we talked about, because we
are still kicking around different ideas, the individual home of someone going in and buying an
affordable home twenty years ago is much different today. That is not happening. Your high end, how
do I say, high-end middle class people can afford, Eileen said a second ago, $160,000 being an
affordable is quite expensive. It is quite a hefty mortgage. You look at the rents they are paying it is
probably very close to that, but trying to get that money is going to be very difficult from a lending
institution. I think some thinking outside the box needs to happen, and we are doing that. One of the
things that I site quite often is Driftwood Cove with the condo purchases. Not too long ago I had two
employees that own inside there, and purchased for under $30,000 a unit, and paid somewhere like
$350.00 a month. At least they own something. They could afford to buy that, and then in years to
come they could sell as it appreciated, and they could have made a profit on that. So, we are still
looking at different avenues. We need to keep as many people as we can here in the work force.
Otherwise you are going to have them coming in every day from the west end.
8/14/01 16
LAURIE HOLLANDER: I don't have enough to really talk about it, but I have been speaking to
people who live in Cedar Falls, and other places, and it seems like the people that need the affordable
housing aren't really living there. They are not necessarily people who work or permanently live in the
community, and ! think we probably need to some kind of investigation, and really see who is living in
these communities, ! mean, how did the past programs pan out before we jump ahead, and throw these
communities all over the place. That is all ! have to say.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: As far as change of ownership in the three projects that have been
accomplished in Southold, you know the figures. Elijah's Lane, what? Two, sometimes divorce,
sometimes other reasons.
JIM MCMAHON: In most every instances in reference to Cedar Fields, Cedar Fields was one of our
first attempts of affordable housing. The problem with Cedar Fields from a marketing prospective in
trying to put 39 units on the market at the same time we doing were doing Highpoint Meadows, we had
too many affordable units coming on to the market at one time, and probably in Cedar Fields the last
four or five units in there went to people in category C, which is in the way our program works is that
priority A is living and working in Southold. Priority B is living or working, and then the Federal
government require us to have a category C, all others. In the other projects that we did they were
almost exclusively A, in some case B, and in no case C. What has happened with the projects that we
have done like Elijah's Lane, Southold Villas, and Highpoint, and to a large degree Cedar Fields, when
people divorce or there is a job relocation, but probably in total out of all the units we have created,
because we do file a lien against property, so that we know when they are transferred, you can
probably count on one hand maybe the number of transfers that have gone through in the fifteen years
we have been doing this, ! think, in total there is about 160 to 190 units depending on what program
you have, so people once they are in they stay in, because the cost of going somewhere else. As an
example the equity that the people have in like Southold Villas was ! think on the average they sold for
with mortgages of around $85,000 to $95,000. If there were to cash out today, and walk away with
$100,000 in their pocket that wouldn't allow them to buy a lot in Southold in too many places. ! know
in the new subdivision here on Richmond Creek Farms half-acre lots are $150,000. The other one we
have down here in Angel Shores in bulk they were $128,000, so by the time somebody puts a house on
that lot you are probably talking in the low three's. So, they may be able to sell their affordable house
but they are not going to economically be any better off.
JOSH HORTON: Josh Horton is my name from Greenport. ! would like to first acknowledge to the
Board my appreciation and my family's appreciation for the man you just made Supervisor, who is
completely worthy of that job, Mike Verity, in his participation in saving my father's life last Sunday
as a member of the Greenport Rescue Squad.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: What happened?
JOSH HORTON: My father suffered a heart attack, and Mike and the Greenport Rescue Squad showed
up in about 3 lA minutes, and handled him with superb care. ! just wanted to make that known to the
Town Board. He is home and making a strong recovery. The other thing ! would like to do is echo
basically what Jimmy mentioned, what Eileen Verity said, what Jay Applegate, and actually what you
mentioned Craig, the pipe dream of little pink houses for all of us, the working class that want to stay
here is a pipe dream. ! think most of my peers that ! work with, that hard nucleus of what Southold
Town is formed, the working class, those of us who are making less than $60,000 a year. We are aware
of that. We don't like to think about it. It sickens us, and it is not the fault of Southold Town. It is
certainly not the fault of Southold Town Board. But, Craig, you did mention thinking outside of the
box, and ! think thinking outside of the box at this point calls for a shift in your focus in providing
affordable housing. ! know ! left here for ten years, and ! lived all over the country. ! lived on the
eastern shore of Maryland. ! realize that is a great place, but ! can't get burger like ! can at Joanthony's
down there. ! wanted to come home, and ! speak on behalf of so many people who are twenty-five to
thirty-five years old, who want to come back here and be contractors, and lawyers, and doctors, and
writers for the Suffolk Times. Thinking outside of the box at this point ! urge you ! beckon you to do
everything that you can to stimulate a rental market, because most of us are willing to come back here,
and rent a place to live for a long period of time. And we will hang in there so long just hoping that
something will turn up, hoping that some of the family money will turn up or our neighbor will like us
so much that they will help us with that 20% down payment, but the reality of me making $42,000 a
year at best, and ! am a highly professional, the reality of me being able to afford a home, being able to
qualify for a affordable house in the provisions that you are calling for is not a reality. ! need time. !
need an affordable rental so ! can shell away a couple hundred dollars a month, a hundred dollars a
8/14/01 17
month, so I can get the down payment, so then I can apply for your affordable housing opportunities.
So the affordable housing market thinking outside the box is leaning towards the rental market, and
doing everything in your power, which is a lot of power to stimulate that. So, I think when we say we
are also talking about accessory apartments, let's say we are also talking about some affordable
housing units, some affordable housing developments, but the main focus is stimulate the rental market
for the working class, the work force here that many of you are dependent on as well. That is all I have,
and thank you for time.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Josh.
JOSEPH VERITY: Joe Verity. I live on Sound Road. Nobody has talked about what kind of house is
going to be erected. I remember the houses in Cedarfields, and Jim says they cost so much, and these
houses weren't finished totally. Now, was his price included to finish the house, or did they have to
pay more to finish the house? Will these houses be finished?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Again, we haven't concrete plans from the builders, but over here on
Jasmine Lane their upstairs wasn't finished off. They did that with sweat equity, and decks they put on
themselves. They put up their own garages. They built their equity.
JOSEPH VERITY: So, it was an additional cost, no money transaction. It was at additional cost.
COUNCILMAN MURPHY: The homeowner paid for that.
JOSEPH VERITY: Oh, he did pay extra. His price was incorrect.
COUNCILMAN MURPHY: No, when they purchased their home, their home say was like a Cape
Cod, two bedrooms down, kitchen, living room with an unfinished upstairs. Now, they determined
they wanted to finish the upstairs. They paid for that themselves. What they paid for that house with
the unfinished upstairs.
JIM MCMAHON: In Cedarfields, the first homes in Cedarfields were $89,000. That was for the
downstairs. If somebody wanted the upstairs finished that either they could do through their own sweat
equity, but the builder at that point had to offer the base house at $89,000 and then we switched over
into a new program year, and I think the second phase of that, or some of the additional homes in there
went up to like $93,000. Now, bear in mind it was quite a few years ago. If somebody elected to have
the upstairs finished that was at an additional cost to them, or they could have done it on their own
with sweat equity. The ones, the other ones in Elijah's Lane and Southold Villas some of those were
Capes, and the upstairs were unfinished, but the bulk of those I think at least in Elijah's Lane were
finished out, and the other ones were probably a fifty-fifty mix, or finished and left vacant upstairs.
JOSEPH VERITY: I was just trying to get what he was talking about affordable. Even that price was
increased. Am I correct? Another thing is I built my own house. I did renovations, and when they
started these programs I worked for the Housing Alliance, so I knew basically some of the grants. I
tried and there wasn't a program for myself to build my own house. I just wondered if you had one
now someone that wanted to build his own house could build his own house.
JIM MCMAHON: Under the Home Program, and this is the first time it has happened in quite some
time, but we do have probably three or four people who are putting modules up. There is new
construction under the original concept of the Home Program. It was for existing homes, but the
County does allow new construction under the Home Program, so some people put up modules. They
didn't build them themselves. They are not too many programs that I am aware of that allow people to
build their own homes just because of the financing of it. As anyone who has built a new home knows,
it is extremely costly venture. You have to have quite a bit money in the bank, because you are never
ahead of the bank. The bank is always ahead of you when it comes to financing new construction, so
for a first time homebuyer it would be extremely difficult.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Rich Israel on one up at High Point, he allowed people who were buying
the affordable homes to do part of the work themselves, so it was kind of a sweat equity thing, not the
entire house was built by the homeowner, but many of them finished them.
JAMES MCMAHON: Actually in Southold Villas and Elijah's Lane, if somebody was in the trade
they could get a credit for the work that they did.
8/14/01 18
EDNA QUATROCHE: My name is Edna Quatroche. We have been beating this thing to death. We all
agree with the same principle, but ! would like to set the record straight. It is Sound Road, not Sound
Drive, not Sound Avenue. Where you go down to the 67 steps is Sound Road, and did speak about
having the record correct. ! think Mr. McMahon called it by mistake Sound Avenue. Somebody else
said the steps were going to be fixed at Sound Drive, and ! wanted you to know where we were. We
are on Sound Road.
JIM MCMAHON: ! just hope ! put 67 step in the right place.
COUNCILMAN RICHTER: These people would let you know if you didn't, Jim.
EDNA QUATROCHE: It is going to be 67 steps even if you put 50 there. We don't change
landmarks. The only reason ! wanted to come up here, and it has all been said by Mr. Applegate, by the
Verity's, and everybody else is, that ! would defy anybody who came to the Town Board, the Town
Clerk's Office, and paid $4.75 to read what was in the folder. One, the letter was not the same letter
that we received. Two, admit it line five they called it hamlet density. On ours it was affordable
housing. On our letter, June was changed in ink to July 31st. On that paragraph of four it said we had
five days to get down here, and check this out.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: I think what you are talking about was the application was not
complete and correct. My office has been looking at that a little bit as to whether it is complete and
correct.
EDNA QUATROCHE: That probably caused a lot of the confusion that we have today.
TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: It had not been official filed in my office, because it was not complete
with the mailing. ! have not receipted it. ! have not anything. It is in my safe, so it is not officially filed,
not at all.
EDNA QUATROCHE: Okay, but they sent out a different letter to us. As ! say, we came up in good
faith to copy what was in that folder.
TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: You came up with the understanding that they can look at what is in my
file even though it wasn't officially filed with me.
EDNA QUATROCHE: We were not told that.
TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: ! am sorry you weren't. You should have been. ! am sorry if you weren't
told that.
EDNA QUATROCHE: Well, the young lady that did answer me turned around to the other person
and said, ! don't know what she is talking about, do you?
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: ! think one of the notices even has it listed as south of 48.
EDNA QUATROCHE: In other words everything about it seemed to be just kind of thrown together,
and of course when ! did look at the plan to see that the cul de sac would come right out on the corner
of Mr. Tyrer's property, and my property right there in the middle of the only drainage area we have
up there on Sutton, and there hasn't been enough study done on this yet to make any decision, and that
is why we are here en masse today to tell you we don't like what we see, and how sloppily it was put
together.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Nothing happened.
EDNA QUATROCHE: Nothing happened, Jean, but like all small towns, right? Yes, right? That is the
only thing ! wanted to correct a few of things, and when you finally get an official notice can we kind
of have the correct one?
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Not to speak out of turn, but we need to make sure as part of the
official zone change application all the folks have to be noticed, and if the application wasn't correct
that notice might have to be redone to the neighbors.
8/14/01 19
EDNA QUATROCHE: Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: ! think this is the first one which they were going to go with the hamlet
density change of zone, and then it was felt it would be better to stay with the affordable housing, so
this looks like two separate applications.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: There is a criteria set forth in the Town Code. I don't know if
they have everything in that criterion.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Okay, I am going to take a couple more. I will take this lady here, and
then ! will take you.
PEGGY KOLBENHEYER: ! am Peggy Kolbenheyer. ! have a letter here that was signed by sixty
people in the Factory Avenue area, and ! guess you haven't received it yet. Actually it was received by
your office, but from what ! understand from Mrs. Neville it might not filed yet.
COUNCILMAN MURPHY: I got it in my box today.
PEGGY KOLBENHEYER: You have it? I don't know ifI should read it or not.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: A copy went through my office.
PEGGY KOLBENHEYER: Should ! read it or no? You have it? Okay, that's all.
MARIKA PAPAS: I just have a quick comment. My name is Papas. I live in Greenport on McCann
Lane. I received the certified letter but I do have to say that four of the neighbors that I spoke with
today did not receive anything, and I was the first person who mentioned any of this happening to
them. I think that is very sad, and I don't really understand why all the neighbors were not notified the
way I was.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: I can't fully answer your question. One idea is it depends how
close you are. There is a certain radius.
MARIKA PAPAS: Right next door.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: I was just raising a question.
MARIKA PAPAS: ! think when big issues like this come to be we need to make sure that everyone is
informed.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: If ! could just request that yourself or your neighbors, it would
probably be helpful to simply send a letter to the Town Clerk, notifying the Town Clerk, look, we
didn't receive a notice.
MARIKA PAPAS: People know what to do, but ! think that if we are going to do something we
should do it correctly.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: The applicant sent it out.
MARIKA PAPAS: ! know everyone makes mistakes, but ! think everybody needs to be informed.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: They also have to give you a list, make sure they send to the
right people.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: They have to notify adjacent property owners.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: That is why it is nice to just send that letter in to file.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: That is an interesting point. How do you verify that haven't or have sent
it out?
8/14/01 20
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Return receipt requested.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The applicant staples the cards.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Was it return receipt requested?
MARIKA PAPAS: Yes.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The applicant gets a list of affected property owners from the Assessor's
Office.
COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Are your neighbors year round residents or are they summer residents?
Yes. Sometimes send it to their city address if that's where they get tax bills.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: It's a tough one. It is not a complete application, so it is better
until it is done correctly.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes, ma'am?
EDWINA SKREZEC: Edwina Skrezec. I resent the fact that ..
TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Can you come to the mike? We need it for the record.
EDW1NA SKREZEC: No, ! can speak loud enough. My house (Unintelligible).
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Do you mean the applicant? I think it was on the application. I
couldn't hear the beginning of what you said.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I couldn't hear either.
PAULETTE BROOKS: ! am opening up a whole other issue. But, you are probably ready to go into a
new track. This is in regard to day permits that issued by the Town through the bait and tackle stores. !
believe there are five of them at least. ! am a homeowner. ! was one of the lucky persons who were
able to get a home while they were still affordable on the Sound. ! am in Cutchogue. My name is
Paulette Brooks. By being on the Sound ! have had to comply with extremely stringent rules and
regulations from the DEC, the Army Corp of Engineers, etc. etc. However, ! feel the Town is not doing
enough to preserve the beauty and pristine views that ! pay such high taxes for even though ! live in
what is a beach shack. But, ! consider my property and my little beach shack dear to me, and ! feel
that anybody can come and get a day permit at four in the morning on a Saturday and come use the
beaches, and litter as they wish using the bulkheads. ! represent a number of families east of Duck
Pond Lane. ! have subjected to picking up diapers. ! have seen feces, broken beer bottles. We have a
problem with out of town, not local, but out of town fisherman coming for the day. It is a problem that
has gotten out of hand. ! wrote a letter to the Town Board last year. ! didn't get any reply. ! have been
there for many, many years, and we have worked with the police. However, this is an issue that the
police can't really handle. There is parking signs up at the end of Duck Pond Lane. One sign says it is
only two-hour parking. Another sign says, no parking except for 10:00 A.M. to 10:00 P.M., however
these permits are being issued from the bait and tackle stores that open at 4:00 in the morning. So, !
don't how these people hear about this one particular spot, but they know to come, and none of these
people are local people. So, ! would like to make some proposals. ! don't know if this is the way to do
it, or ! need to send it in writing. Maybe you can recommend what to do. ! have a number of
suggestions of how this could be handled other than just changing the signs, but something needs to be
done, because we, as the homeowners along this area have been left to be the vigilantes, and ! think the
police probably cost the town more money every weekend to send the police three or four times to
check on their littering, and the size of their fish, etc. then it would cost for somebody to just patrol the
area, a beach attendant, or whatever.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Put something in writing, please, and direct it to me in my office.
PAULETTE BROOKS: As ! say, ! did send a letter last year. However, it was not mentioned or
addressed, so ! hope ! will get a response this year. Thank you.
8/14/01 21
ADAM BATCHELLER: Hi. My name Adam Batcheller, and I just purchased a building on Mattituck,
and ! was looking for the zone usage of the building. If there was able to be tables and chairs in that
building to be used not really for a restaurant, but for more like a caf6. ! know it is Hamlet Business,
but ! know it has public parking behind it. ! am not sure ! am talking to the right group of people. !
came here to just listen. ! want to become involved with the community.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Number one, we don't know where you are located, and number two, we
have to go look at the Zoning Map to see the zone you are in, and number three, ! would come in if !
were you, and go to the Building Department.
ADAM BATCHELLER: ! talked to Ed Forrester a week or so ago, and he seemed to be okay with
that. He directed me towards Benny Orlowski. So, ! just thought ! would come down, and say who !
was.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Okay, you have spoken to Building. Go to Planning. What zone are you
in?
ADAM BATCHELLER: ! am in Mattituck. It is a Hamlet Business zone, ! believe.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Good luck with your endeavor. Thank you for coming, and all your
remarks certainly will be taken under consideration as we move through this entire issue. Thank you.
Does the Town Board have anything to report? Mr. Richter? Mr. Romanelli? Louisa? Bill? Brian?
May ! have a motion to adjourn?
Moved by Councilman Murphy, seconded by Justice Evans, it was
RESOLVED that this Town Board meeting be and hereby is adjourned at 6:57 P.M.
Vote of the Town Board: Aye: Councilman Richter, Councilman Murphy, Councilman Romanelli,
Councilman Moore, Justice Evans, Supervisor Cochran.
This resolution was duly adopted.
Elizabeth A. Neville
Southold Town Clerk
C