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Home My WebLink AboutZBA-05/20/2004 Hearing 1 2 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOA?.D OF :kPPEALS .... £OUNFY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW '~ORK ' 3 ~ TOWN 0 P S 0 UT H 0 L D 6 7 Z O N I N G B OAR D O F A P P E ~_L S 8 Seu~hold To',n }±all 10 53095 Main P. ead Seuthoid, New Yerk 11 May 20, 12 9:30 a_m. 13 Beard Members Present. : 14 RUTH OLIVA, Chairwoman 1~ !.,INCEN'P ORLANDO, Vice Chairman 16 LYDIA FORTORA, Board Member 17 O£~2,'IES DINIZIO, Beard Member 1S LINDA KOWALSKI, Board Secretary 19 21 22 23 2~ 25 .... c .-'~ll,-~ 878 904~ COURF REPORFiN'~ Al'ID TRA2.~S.~RIPTIJN SERVI,2E ':. · 1 2 CHAIRWO~'.~AN OLIV}_: Our first hearir~g is for Alan Braverman ef 2200 Var~stc. n Read in Cutchogue, 3 who wishes te p~&t a swimming pool and a garage workshop, storage area 18 feo~ so,neck sf the ~ closest point from the fren~ line, elevatio~ 25 feet ~o the top of ~he ridge. PlaIlne~ by Franck 5 Uellen~ahl, and ~he lot is ~riangular in shape, so i~ has two front ~,ards. 6 Is there someone here who would like mo speak ~o uha~? Yes, state your na~e, please_ ? MR_ BP~']ArER~AN: My name is Alan 8 CMAIRWOP[AN OLIIA'%: Wha~ wo~ld you like Eo tell us? 9 i,IR. ~P3_VERHAN: Just tha~ my un.~erstanding is that the property has -- it's not my 10 hm~dersta~ding I live ~l~ere -- it has a funny shape, and one ef the roads uset to be private alld 11 ih only goes ~o abort two houses, Sut ~hen for some reason, proDabiv a gee{ reasons, they made it 12 public, l'Thich means almost my entire yard is csnsidered front yarO, on both sides, so my 13 bac~_]'ar~ I {idn't realize, my backyard is actuall} considered also mi, front yard, plus my front yard 14 is m~, front }'ord. So wha~ I'd lik_e uo do is, I hspe ~'eu've seen all ~he plans, it's 1%o~ that big 15 o~ a charge in the house, and also as far as tile pool is concerned, if we had put ore in 35 feet 16 away, you know 5hat whole 5hing, we would lose our e~Eire yard, se I was just esi{lng that you lee us 17 ~.s thaL. If you P~ave a~_? ques5ions? CHAI±%WON.'~2,[ OLIIZA: [4r. Dinizio? 18 BOARD ME[~[BEB DINIZIO: No, it's an odd si%ape. There's ne doubt, I do see some hardship iL£) ti]ere, I have no questions. CPL% I RWOI,~2~ OLIVA: ]~ydia? 20 BOSi~_D I,~ENBER TORTOR3: I ha,-e no q~estions. 21 Ct~_ I RW,DI'~132~ OLi~JA: Vincent? BOARD HEI~BER ORL~D(}: dus~ one question, 22 srte concern, backing out of your driveway, please be careful. I backed o~tt ef your drivewa',- you MR. BRAVBRNA2{: I make sure the heage row 24 ~s down, but we should put a big mirror hhere. BOARD HEPIBER ORL~J'IDO: My one question 2b iS, you're changing the roof line. it looks lime a flat roof line from a cross section; are %ou [.iai, 20, 2004 3 1 2 9sing to have an active ~llird floor dec}.-_ up ~here; is ~tlat the plan? 3 }.{R. BRAVERMYl~: I don' t ]{now_ BOARD HEMB~2R ORhANDO: i'm leokir~g at a 4 cross-section, looks like a fla~ roof, Ei~e whole top is fiat, l~alf the house is flat. It's hard Ee ~ tell ~rom this particular picture. MR_ BRAVERI,T32~: We ha.?en'E really decide~ 6 ~nless i ~ave to decicle aE this minute. At first mi architecU made iu flat, and i said what happens 7 if i~ snows and it's not such a great idea, ant it's net like up there you have a beEPer water 8 iew_ Acr. ually, nhe water view is underneat~ the ureas_ In ouher words, so I ~o~'t realls, know_ I 9 think we're jus~ trying to figure ou~ wha~ to de t[lere. When we found ouU we weren't actually 10 allowed ue -- you know, about the public road, you know the front yarG thing_ So we haven't deci,~ed. 11 If you want Eo recommend - I mean, I doP~'u know thau's nhe answer. 12 BOARD HEHBER ORLm2[DO: We h~ a recenU ~pplicaEion before us recentl~~ with the sa~e idea 13 wi~h basically a third roof deck, and we cienied it because it was towering ever people's yards 14 basically to have a cocktail party on 5ep of the res. f, which is ?ery inviting bus ir~timiciating to lb r_he neighbors. ~,~P__ BP~eVERPLAN: One thing is thou there 16 _~re no neigl~bors, if we ~id that, we wouldn't build anI structure, of course, if we ~id Eha~ 17 because the ground is so inclined - ,2HAIRwO[,Z~2} OLiVA: Slopes upward. 18 HR. BRf~f,.~R~'.'II~i'~: -- so ~ha~ heigh~ is F-rebably just a few feet above ~[le road and any 1S~ neighbsrs are at leas~ 30 feet above ~ha~ same road, V~nston Road. Se it wouldn't - de ~,ou see 20 what I'm saying? Se in other words there's nabod-,~ tRere that woul~ -- 21 ~OARD N{EMB~R ORL.~2~DO: Right. MR_ BP~VER~2~: I~ wouldn'~ bloc~ any 22 _ iow. C½AIRNOHRN OLIYA: From flat roof 23 e:_perience, doli'~ ge~ a flat reef becanse the s_~ow, ~l- son's had terrible nrouble with a flat 24 roof, has gone ~hr©ugh all sor~s ef expense ~rying ~o plug up ~he leaks and holes_ 2~ I,'[R. BNS£iER['~RI}: The idea Sf the flat roof ~.as the drawing like ~han was ~o right now the Ploy 20, 2004 1 2 master bedroom is so shall ah the var:, highest i~'s still under eight feet. It goes down the 3 ~,,hole way. So the idea is jLlS~ EO bFing it up, t~t ~'Je hatn't finished ~he exact tRing, if 4 wa~lt, i mear~. BOARD MEP[BER ORLANDO: I don'~ have a S proSlem with the variance of the setbacks, you have an awkward space there, it's unique. Would 6 you have a problem if we put a condition about no active third floor on Uop ~here? That's what I'm 7 S. riving a~.. HR. BP.f~JEi~MAN: I would requesE uhat 5ou 8 consider -- we haven't go~en to the - ?~e haven't reali2- decided, but I woulO ask _~-ou to consider if 9 ~hat would be oka? ~o do tna~. If ~ha~'s going £o prevent you from doing the whole thing, then I'il 10 say fine, and I can always ask about that part. Because m5' guess is ~E's a different situation 11 ~han whoever these other people are because as I said, our entire house is basically below 12 roK~. BOAiD MEMBER C, RL}i~DO: I was ~here. It's 13 ]zelow ~he grade, the topography is all .iiffe~enE a er there, you're in a valley_ 14 MR. BI~eVERHAN: I would love to ~ave ~a~ option ~o nave even just a part af iE te be able lb ~.2 go up on. BO_-~RD HEMBER ORL~i~DO: I'm not speaking 1~ ~or the rest of ~he Board but it could ~ec±~e if it's a Yete for or against, if that, I just wanted 17 tc ~hrow it out there for you_ HR. BP-~_VERf:~AN: I'm net se great at 18 decisions sometimes. I share when I erter food. BC,ARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Because if 5ou ~id 1~ wan~ ~o use it as an acti~.e top site, when you wen~ for your building permit you woulO have 20 Rave -.-our standard three foot, 38 inch rails around i~. IE ~oesn't show i~ here. I'm not sure 21 hew much you have of ~-~is, that's wtll, i'm asking ~hat question. 22 MR. BR~/,~ERI'~LL2,]: Yoh~ kno,., wha~ I could dc., E don'~ know if you can do this, is if ,?e decide 23 Ec dc. uhis just shcw it to vo~ and see if you guys 24 CHAIRWO~U-i{ OLIYA: i mhink VincenL's asking you if lou're going eo use that roof as ar~ 25 active area ~o go up uhere and entertain_ [,IR_. BP~VEPPL~'2~: Probably not. · jusu Hay 20, 2004 1 2 dsn'~ wan~ to - sho~lt i say no and then if I wan~ to I coL~ld come back and say would you lek me 3 .consider theE? Because it's not a main B,O3~PdD MEMBER TORTORA: We could do 4 conditional approval Lk~en you would agree if ~here's going Ee be furEher activity ttlan what's 5 sn E~ese plans, activity or use of ~hat area thee you would cema back for fureher consideration. 6 HR. BP_'A~Y~RNF-'_II: Also mlJ wife's involved ~he wa.~ she might ~hink -- that kind ef tt~ing_ , CHAIRWOHP~i,I OLI~.A: Is ~here any wa5- with i~-sur proposed addition ~o ute garage r. ha~ 8 coui~ turn around ~here or no~ have to back ~nEo Vans ~on? --~ }.'IR. BP_-A;ER~,~2~: That's one of ~he ~hings we are p~ui~g in ~nere. 10 CHAIRNON]AT'I OLIVA: I see the cart-crt? NR. BR~VERM2-i'~: Yes. 11 CHAIRNOMS2,} OLi~/A: So you could swing in there ant back around? 12 ~.iR. BR2~i,!ERHYl~: Yes _ 2~2~IRWC,Mi'~i{ OLI\~A: De you hate an'_,' other 13 quos ~ions? BOARD MEMBER ORLAi~DO: No other 14 ~ues~ions . .2PL~IRWOI',L%t~ OLIVA: L: die, do ?ou have any lb o~-her questicns? BOARD HE~dBER TORTOP3_: Just EhaE if 16 Ehere's an}' acEi~iEy planned for that cther than wh~'s been sta~ed at Ellis puDlic hearing and in 17 Ehe record er in Ehe files, ~aE the applicant agrees uc come back uo Ehe Board for furEher 18 cons idera~ ion. I.IR. BPi-.VERN~Z2.~: AbsoluEely. Thank you. 19 ,2HAIRWOMYl,} OLIVA: Thank 5'ou, I'd like Eo [hake a meEion Lo close the hearing and reserve 20 decision un,il laEer. Is there anybody in Ehe ~h~dience that weulO like Ee speak for er against 21 this application? ~See minu~es for resolution.', 22 CHAIRWOHAW OLIL'A: Ne won't ,~eci~e [Ir. Braverman. We'll ha~?e our meeting in absut 23 two weeks, and then wa'il ge oYer our decisions, and ~t~en iu will be wri~t6.~n in aDout anoeher ,.z~;ek. CHAiRWOI'.LL2~ OLII?A: Our- r~exU appiica~ion is 25 fcr I,_;r. OrlicY~- on LeeEon £}rive. He wishes Eo h. uild a new house_ May 20, 2004 1 2 ['.IR. ORhI_R: ,~uod morning, initially wf~en we,,~_r~_ designing the house, we went ~o the 3 Pras~ees and there was a current mora~crium, end we waiEei for ~he~u ~o be finished with ~he % moratorium. And I showed them mlf plans to see how thai~ felt where the house could be placed, and ~ init ialif the,:, encouraged me to piece the house isndward of ~he coasEai erosion line, which would 6 result in violating the fronr, yard setback. Initially that would have been a 23 foot front ? ~ard when you required 35, noting that the front s~aircase Lakes up four feet so in essence it's 8 reaiif 27 feet, the major par~ cf ~he house_ Since then I ~,,as thinking of ways Es, i ~' guess, Es improve the front yard. Se i though~ ~he rear deck, which at its widest, ~akes up about 10 six feet, if we move the house back ~owards ~he water six feet and canuilever the deck in~o the 11 coastal erosion zeno, might be a good war to reduce, I guess, the violation for the front 5-ard 12 setback. Since then I me~ with the Trustees, and ~he~- came out te the site, and they though~ iu was 13 a .~oool ilea ~o shift the ho~u~se back. i~ wouldn't ha ~e an.. environmeutai impac~ en ~he coas~ai 1% erosisn zone, so I guess depending on the results of this hearing, I would go te them for permiss to 16 csntilever ~he rear deck inbo the coastal erosicn zone, which would help ~he front yard so,hack, 1~ which uhe bottom line is we would be looking for excinding the fron~ porch 33 feet as opposed ~o ii 35. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: The w~d~h of the 18 porch is four feet? NR. ePiI,_$_: ~=~. The acEuai rariance is 19 l! feet, but tl%e front perch just fits in~o the tease . 20 BOAJ~_D ME[.[BER ~ORTOP-~_: So there would he no change in the footprint of ~he house? 21 [`.IR. ORhlCK: No, ne ch_enge an ail, jnsu shifting it be.st a maximum ef six feet tcwarts the 22 water_ CHAIRWOH~i~ C, LIiA~: Sc. i~c.u da~-~'~ ha~e much 23 sf a bluff there? B,DARD i.IEI,[BER TORT,DP2~: S~art off aE ~he 24 beginning, che perch is righc now nhe propssed sezback on tNe sYlrve,~~ is 27. Tile porch is four 2S feet, so if you eliminate the porch that woult gi ~e you a setback of 31. Now yogi're saying ~hat 20, 2004 7 1 2 2ou're going to mo~'e iL back, the entire foundation another six feet? 3 MR_ ORLi,2K: Correct. BO}iD ~4EMBER TORTORA: You're out of our % jurisdiction, i'ou don't need a variance MR. ORLICK: Okay. 5 BOARD ].~EMBER TORTORA: But we don't har-e an~~ plans on that, lee me just take a look_ 6 C~AIR~OHi~,I OLi~/A: It's 27 feet to the fsuniatien, you're going ce move it back six fee~? 7 B,D2~P_D MEMBER TORTOPA: In other words, the code requiretnent on the front yard is 35, ~ you're here at 27 because it's 27 to the porch. The width of the porch is four. 9 MR. ORLI,2K: If I ma~, interrupt, the porch is 23 feet. 10 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I see. HR. ORLICK: On the surrey I d3n'E ]{now CMAIRWOM~ OLI\~: But it's really 23 12 feeu? BOARD MEMBER TORTOP~A_: So i~'s 27 tc ~he 13 h~u~e new and - ~ £HAIRWO~,%127 OLIVA: If you go back six 14 ius~ makes it 33, so you still need our appro~al. HR. ORLICK: Correct. IS CHAIRWON~ OhlY~= You still need -- MR. ORLICK: Correct 16 C½AIRWOMAN OLIVA: You don't ~a.~e muc~ of a bluff there as a protection against the storms. 17 i ~,iish zeu luck with MR. ORLICK: I just think that - 18 CHAIRWOHAN OLI~CA: You're going to have to build on stiles. 19 ~ HR_ ORLICK: Yes. And the Trustees came out and I'd be nine feet off the ground, and 20 f~lt if I just had the deck with no supports, underneauh footings, that it wouldn't i~hpact 21 anstking. ,2HAIP_WC,P~N OLIVA: So 22 going to be raise~? NR. ORLICK: The deck is going ~o be 23 !raised but ne footings underneath it_ [E's going rEo ~e just flying out more or less. 24 / CHAIRWO~L~I OLIVA: A fl}-ing bridge? ~ I.~R. OR¼ICK: A flying Dridge. I mean, 25 t~ere will ~e supports underneath_ r4a_x~ 20, 2004 8 1 2. Ti~cenE, do you have ans~ quesEions? ' Su_~-RS.- -~ - NIEI',IBER uRLAi~D~:^ ' '~ o Ne quesEioNs . s Tb~at~ was Irt' concern, i'm glad you moved it back, and i~'s only a Ewo foot reductien in ehe code, [4 which is minimal, and i~ loeks like you're se..-ing 5onr li~e!e lean-to shed_ 5 I,iR. ORLICBi: Yes. BOAP. D MEHBER ORLi~,IDO: [ j~sE happened to 6 see it on ~:he propers},, and I kind of chuckled. CEI~IR[~[C,Nt~2~ OLIVA: You have a let of 7 poison i~?~, be careful. Lydia? BOARD P.'[EHBEP. TORT,DPJe: No questions_ 8 CHAIRNOPZZll ~hI ..~.: Jim? BOARD PIEHBER DIN~ZIC.: NO. 9 CHAIRWOI'.'ii~I[ OLIi.%e: Is there an~'b,e,iv in Ehe audienoe that would like Eo speak for or against 10 ~his applicaEion? Hearing no one, I would like te make a moEien no clese the hearing and reserve 11 Se.lisien until later. ,;'See minutes for resolution., 12 .................................. ,THA. iRN,D~N OLI~: O~r next hearing is for 13 Thomas Resicki and Sparkling Paint, LLC bs put a winery [n the old Atkins nursery, on Ehe 14 i%smO in Souuhold. Is ~here a~%~'body here w[%o would Like ue sneak far ~his applicauion? 15 [~!R. ROSICKI: Good ~norning, ml- name is Thomas l~c, sicki. And ?es, what we're seeking and 16 whKE's before the Beard ~cd~2- is Ee get a variance of the !C, 0 feet seEback. As yeu probably ha?e in 17 -.-cur maEeriais, aE one poin~ Ehe existilig building uha~ has been there for some Ein~e is senback 6 1~ I]eeh en one corner and 80.8 feet on the eEiler, and {hen's the variance Ehat we are seeking. 19 ,_H=~IRN~].L22~ uhlVA: The Planning Board, i mnst sas, [lad sene in ~he recc. mmendaEioNs and 20 have no preblem ~.;ith the setbacks. Mr. Orlando? BOARD PI~NIB~R ORLAt~0: Do you ~ia~'e a 21 reTised si~e plan? Because ~his is ~he original survey from the nursery because some of chase 22 [~hings don't even axis~ here anyn~ore, like ~he pcly greenhcuse, in's ge~e. So this is an old HR P.U~I,_KL: Nhau we h~d planned u,2 2{ was eo do Ehe si~e plan after - there wasn't sense in our opinion - ~Nis is m% wife 2S Rosicki, by ~he ,.,~a}', - iR doing ehe siBe ~lan before we had the variance_ I.ia!, 20, 2004 2 B,OzeRD ME~,IBF~R ORLYilDO: Do you plan ea~pan,iinq the main sEructnre? 3 i~IR. ROSICt{I: No, nee at all. BOARD HEHBSR ORL_~i{DO: You' re going 4 ~eep },{R. ROSICKI: As is. 5 BOARD HENBER ORLANDO: No~ changing the footprint of that main structure? 6 NR. ROSiCKI: No~ by one inept. BOARD HEHBER ,ORLANDO: Because ~here's no 7 greenhouses on U_hat side. ~,.IR. ROSICKI: The greenhouses, they were 8 falling apart_ hR. ORLANDO: Are you pu~ting any o~her ~ s~ruc~nres on the site? MR. ROSiCKi: No, we're net, no o~her 10 s~ruc~ures. BOARD HEHBER ORhRSIDO: [,lc other ~uestions. 11 OHAI RWO],~L2~ OLIVA: Lydia? BOARD HEI'~BER TORTOP_~: No ques~ior~s. 12 CHAI RNONii~ OLIVA: Dim? BOARD NIEMBER DiNIZIO: No questions. 13 CHAIRWOHAI.I OLIVIA: Let me see if ar~-~hcdy else in the audience has any questions. 14 MS. S~,IITH; Donna Dougas Smith. I ' m an adjoining la~ldowner_ And I'm here to represent 15 inyself aR~ also other neighbors in tt~e neighborhood. 16 I did recei~e a notice in the [,ail, an~ didn't exactly say Bile same exact thing this piece 17 of paper says t~is morning. The piece of paper t~ere says it's asking for solely that -ariance. 18 According to the paper I received, unless I misunderstood it, was that it's asking far also a 19 change of zoning. ,2liA I RWC, M~/.I OL IV_%: No. 20 MS. SNITH: There's nc) change cf zoning? CHA±RNON~ll ,OLI~JA: TP~at wouldr~'t come 21 before us an]'way. IqS. SMITH: I did receive no ncEice 22 ehis h&s .tone before the Plant, lng Board, if this has gone before the Planning Board. 23 CHAIRWOPLml} OLIVA: ~'Jo, ih has nc~ as Hd. SF~iTH: Ne haye a pemition Nero fram 24 the neigRbers around nero, and i'd jus~ like read i~ Sefore the Board. 25 "Ne the undersigned object tc anI, zone change or ~ariance be granEed to the 20, 2004 10 1 2 owners or representatiYes of the property located at 33975 Country Read 48, 3 C'rM S9-10 1. This property for many yaars a s~rub, fiower/tree farm, which falls 4 under the zone agricultural nursery code_ A winery metal storage building and a 5 retail office building and large parking area will change the character ef the area 6 aind cause a depreciation of our properties. 7 "The Town of Southold has spent considerable time and money addressing the 8 existing codes and usage of ~he prcper~y on RouEn 48, and, therefore, ne change 9 should occur." i'd like to submi~ ehau into uhe 10 file_ It's E~e signatures of the people EXat are suppsrting uhat. 11 CNAIRwO~31] OLIVA: Donna, are your neighbors more concerne~ that it's a change of 12 zone De.saw, se wineries are allowed in the agricultural district, you know tha~. 13 MS. SP[iTH: Also tRe fact about the change cf use which I'll get to right now. 14 Number 2, the original building that lan're referring to was built as a barn.'werkshcp. lb It was not a retail use. llt was {_heir greenhouse, [hat's EMe retail use. ~lurseries tend Eo do EhaE 16 because they always say it's a temporary building, and se they gee away with no~ doing iigh~ 17 business, getting zoned as light business. Sc nhaE was e barn/workshop; t~at was not used for 18 people coming in and out, e~ cetera. Number 3, when I went in fren~ of the 19 ~lanni~g Boar~ for my building, m~~ log building, whic~ /on can see is a small ~Rousand square foo~ 20 Duil{iz~g, I go~ t~e wrath ef the town aOout i~, ant i was told ~o go 25,3 feet back from Route %8, 21 cf which my land slopes ~own, and if I had done my little tin' bui£,Jing in that place, you would 22 only seen a lin~le greezz reef. Se we did cad, promise, i~'s a 6,3 foot minimunt setback for new 23 buildings off of RouEn 48, 'cause that's - the firsn {[0 fee~ Oelongs ~o nhe county, I was told, 2% and so we compromised on 160 fee~ because csnsidereJ that that Duilding would be ~se{ 25 _'au're claiming this building's going to be used far, ~n that people would be coming in and Ha}~ 20, 2004 11 l 2 whether ~o bUT: wine, deliver wine or wha~e~er. So I Lhink ~ha~'s something, I'm aR adjacent neighbor 3 and I'~ being held ~c. a higher standard. ~umber %, ,.,on have ~o ~ink on the nc~ioe % I goc, it said hhak wine s~orage wilt an of{ice autache.t, ~ecause ic's a b~g building, and i~ Nas 5 a little ~ar~ jutning oun, and tl~ey said ~ha~ ~hat was going to be the office, it does~'E acEualiy 6 reter Eo ~ as ~ quo~e, unquote winery. Thez-e are nc ~ines on ~ha~ land; iL's a nursery. ~ l',~'/ other concern is that we did spe~d - ~he town, ~he people -~ spen~ aloE of money 8 time and energy on a moraEorium on RouEe 48 to a~oid ex~c~l5' ~his, ~hat we weren't going ? ~on~inualP~ give exceptions, ~ha~ we weren'~ going te spe~ we'll do this for ~his person, ~ha~ for 10 ~ha~ perssn. They l~ad at tha~ point, ~lle owner at ehaE time, ~e decide whaE ~he fL~ture of ~[~e~ lant 11 was. They had tha~ c. ppertunity to cema I had ~hmt opporEuni~y ~o ask for a differenL zoning, er 12 Eo do what: I wanEed Es d.o winh my land, and so did ~he owner aE than Ei~e had the same opporEuni~y, 13 Ehis is now a different owner. And the other ~hing is, already i~ seems 14 ~here's a io~ of land clearing going on there. C,n ~he plan ~hau I received ul~ere's semeEhing like 30 lB ~arking spaces with overflow parking_ i ha~.e to ~ ..h~ _ S ~ues~ion ~.zlla~ are you going ~c. do wi~h 16 ycing ~o be done wi~h ~haL building_ If already Erees hai been k~locked down aii around thee 17 building as if iu's a g[ven uhau uhis buLiding is going no Secome what ahoy're asking, a huge gian~ 18 parking io~ is going ~o surround i~_ I dc.n'~ uniers~and how EhaE occurs. I den'~ understand 19 why someone ,.~ouid aire~dy do that almese like assume i~'s a given. Ne're going te put ~his big 20 harking loE around tP~is existing building. ~ just hope ~-ou keep in mind Ei~aE we don't wan~ bo get 21 like from np west. [.iy ~[amiiy moved out here he.cause of ~he farming, because of ~he ~iews Ne 22 spenE a ioh of deveiopmen~ right money bui?in~ develepmenU rights. 'there are lands surreunting 23 Eha~ the development righEs money ef Ehe tax payers have been spenE ee keep the yiews, all 24 righE_ Ih=r= can be -- there's a potenEial problem with this. i'd like you Eo consider 25 e~er~thing I broughE up_ Read the petition, i ~hink r. he person here - Ellis is Ehe ~2 ~- seen of ~.he~ -- i ~hink if they were sincereif ~ .... interested and the%-_ don't live righ~ tllere, t~ .... 3 shonld have talked to all the neighbors_ ~-~ .= asked in the past when something like ~his comes 4 forth that a bigger sign, three feet b5 three feet be put on the properly so people are notified. No 5 cnn finds out about this unnil such ~hings are approyed. Let's Ery Eo continue to sa,~e SouEheld. ~ C~AIRWO[,TAN OLiVA: Hrs. ~mlth, in respeeE te Ehe parking, I think if we approve the setback, ~ than reailg the parking issue should go wh~'n they conle for site plan appro~al to the PlanF~ing Beard_ $ I thi~-~k this would be more appropriate for ~hem ~o ~ec~e. ? HS. SMITH: But i~'s sc~eEhing you need to scnsiier before you approve the setback. It's an 10 existing building. There are other oppc. r~uni~ies .sun in this town that have the proper setbacks for 11 such hoe. This is a new tiling. This is nee ~he ?.riginal 2. wnar of the properEy, ~hen iE went te 12 someone else and the person admitted theI bought il en spec~lation, they sold it on spe2nia~ien. 13 Ds nee de i~ aE the cost of the ~own, a~ the cost ~. cf the neighbors_ I'm an adjacent neighbor, 14 please. ,2~AIRWC,I.'I~i,I C, LIVia: Thank you. Is there iS ~nl-body else that would like Es speak for or against Ehis application? 16 hR. NUDD: Geed mernillg, Beard, I'm SEeve [ludi. i rain an adjoining neighbor across Ehe 17 s~reet and Donna brought up a loc .of points ef soncern, one ef which is not valid. The Accent 18 .~!ursery p~ece tha~ was over tliere, they did .iD re~.aii sales nut ef that s~ructure, as well as tile 1S, greenhouse both, and i weuld ask the Beard ts vote ~i upon i~ favorably in consideration of tile variance 20 for the se~baek of ~he building that's existing l': ~haE was used for an agric~l~ural para L~se. Jus~ :~ 21 a conversion to a different use. Than]{ you. : nHAINWC, MAI~ ~ ?~' Thank you, Mr. Mudd ;' 22 Does ehe appiicanu have anything further ~ ~c add? :, 23 HR. ROSICKI: Yes i dc.. i listenei 5err rarefuli~- to the impassioned speech bl hiss SmiEh, 2% a~id that ,.~as first on mlz list, as Hr_ Nudd -~,:~i men~icned, the retail use piece is simpil~ n,o~ 25 erue. The o~her thing I'd like to add is that we '"' ha,.e been residents of Seu~hold for eight 5ears as May 20, 2,1,,i, 4 13 1 2 ,,,~eii, and we awn a house within one mile of this parcel Ne're No~ people who haven't been 3 familiar or acclimated Lo ~he area. In fac~, ~ui~e fraz~kl~', we bought this property because we 4 diill'~ WeRE ~O see Sou~hold tur~e,t in~o ieveiopmenu, afEer development, after development. 5 ARi as we c~me out here more and more and ~e uut down our }~ard earned money and bought a }~suse 6 here on NerEh Sea Drip,e, we bought ~llisp~ece", in fac~, ~c. help stop the developmen~ ~ha~ was ~ happening The ether thing i'd like to add is tha~ 8 ~he word adjacen~ means directly next ~o. i ton't Kelieve her parcel is directly z~ext ~o. I Ehink 9 ~:here's a parcel in between, and I'd like to say ~he~ ~,,e care ~bou~ Southo~d and Southold Town and 10 we've maiea yery big inves~menz in iE. ~e Nreserve ~ke agricultural naEure ef it, and this isn't j~st 11 a mc, ney m~king opera,ion for us. Thank 5~oe, and I wculd ask that with the issee before ehe Board 12 ~.han -~eu ~.2uld favorably approve it_ .~%IRU,sM}2I ~LI~}A Board Members have an-~ 13 further ~Y~esEiens? BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Ne further 14 .{ues~iens, I just wan~ed no sum up Ehe cmKrlfl~E1ON, exactly what I s~id, so i~ 15 z~ieariy on Ehe record. Fou're no~ exp~niing ~he existing s~ructure? l~q NR. ROSICKI: Not b~z' s. ne inch_ BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: And ...... ~ ~h~ r~ nc~ ii pu~ing any more new s~ructeres en the Nreperty? MF_ ReSImKI: Zero, in fac~, we ha-e 18 remoyed sLruchures. T~iere were greenhouses thaE oran' ~ there ~nyv~ore_ There are fewer sErucZures. 1P 8,DAP~ I~I~P~ff~ ORL}i~DO: Thank ycu. And I eonsi,ier t,~ineries farming_ 20 BOARD MENBER DINIZiO: I'd like no - ,2HAI RNOHf~[ OLi?A: JimP 21 BOARD I.[E[~IBER DiNIZIO: The parking ys, u're going nc, put in there is going ba be the ~arkin~ 22 zhat is required by zhe Planning Beard7 I'm assuming you're ne~ putting parking in because 23 ~:k: perking? E,IR ROSICKI: No. f.qe don' t like parkiz7g 24 and in facz, zhe idea of paving over square foe~ge of something we want to be agricultural, 2=_ is anaEhem~ to u~,~ and ~here is also drain:age a~:d parking that exist Ehere as well [.lay - ~ ~,J, 2 BO~.RE, MEMBER DINIZiO: I m familiar with z~. Ha.re the developmer~E rights been sold tc. 3 ,~= this? MR. ROSiCKI: No. % BOA~.D ME[,.[BER DINIZIO: it looks like the piece is cu~ ou~ where the building is, is there 5 any reason for tha~ line ~hat's there on sur, rey? I~ lc. oks like it's cu~ ouE. 6 MR. ROSICKI: TheL's ~he way i~ was under the previous owner. ~ BOARD ME[~IBER ORLANDO: I~' s one let BOARD MENBER DINIZIO: The de~e!opment 8 rights are felly in~ac~? MN . R~,sIbKI: Z~s. ~ POARD NIEMBER DINIZIO: i thoughE me?be ~hat denoned nh~ in some way. I was concer~iet 10 about {~ha~. O~her than mhe face Eha~ you're put~ing a permitted use ~here, I see ~7o reason 11 wh_ ~'ou have a ha~Fdship in ~haE Yhere's an existi~g building, there shouldn'E be any reason 12 why you can't use the existing buiidilTg. You may need Eo make ~he ingress and egress a ii,tie 13 sefer, iE's non for us Eo know, but oEher nlTan ~he face nlTa~ parking is required by ~he Pienning 14 Soard and we don'~ do it, I see no problem wizh zhis. Tb~ank you. 15 ,2HAIR~[O[~[AN OL I ifa: Lydia ? BOARD HENBER TORTORA: I jus~ w~nt 16 meke a couple of ne~es for the record as ~e ~he concerns cf Miss Smith. Number 1, ~he proper~y 17 i~seif does no~ appear ~o me Ee ]De more ~han ?,ne 150 fee~ deep, 67 feeE from the road, the length 1;5 2f ~he building is 65'2", arid e an wi~h ~he apron, se as zo the criteria under New York Town Law thaz 1S, we ~re required ~o l~ok at is ~o eizernaniva? The answer is no. N:ere is no 20 feasible way that this sZrucZure could be placed on 2his property wi~heuE a ~ariance_ 21 ,2HAIR{gOMR['[ OLIVA: They have ll.S acc'es. BDARD }dEMBER DINIZIO: Their hardship ~ ~hen ~hey have a building arid want ~o use CHAIRWOM31~ OLI~%~: IPhev haYe an assisting 23 building. ~,S,ARE, MEHBER T,~R'FOP~-~ ~_ Ni~hout Eearin~ 24 iht whole thing Oown, correcL? TheereLicali-j ~he~~ csui{ tear ~he whole ~hing down and 2~ BOARD HEHSER DiNIZiO: Hoce it back 100 fee~. But tb~at's no~ wha~ ~he~ 're askin~ for_ Hay 20, 200.% 15 1 2 BOARD HEMBER ORLAI~DO: Do you ~nc.w what ~ha easemen~ is in £ron~ of you, the utility 3 easement between 5,our preperts, 10, 12 feet maybe? T,~R. ROSICKI: I don'~ know. e BOARD MEMBER ORL:i2~DO: Because the apron's wa-? out there, so I'm assuming e~ren ~hou~l £ from ~,our pro, erE5~ r_o ~he house is 67 feet from ~he Main Road it's pro~ably closer ed 80 fee~.? 6 NR. ROSiCKI: I would think so. There's a hu~e piece out in front, bh~t exactly wha~ iE is, ? i doll' ~ ]',:now. CiiAIRWOHPd~I OLiV-'%: Are 5c.u going to keep 8 ~hat landscaping that's there, ~ha~ ~lffer? MR. ROSICKI: Z~bsolutely_ it's beautiful 9 landscaping out in fron~. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Hew m~ch of a ~inancial 1,5 hardship would ir_ ~e for .?ou ~o move tReE building back? 11 [,IR. R,,')SI(;KI: I don't Know. We're not in scnseruction, buu. I would tllin}z it would be 12 $7b0, 000 BOARD MEMBER ORL}I[DO: SuOstantial. 13 CHAiRNO[',~,~I~ OLiVA: Does any£}od5' else have anfthing bs say? if net, does a~rgbody else in 14 audience wish te make an'..' commen~:s? MR. ROSICt(I: One other thing, may we 15 request acoN]' cf ~he petition t~at was submitted? MS, KONAhSKi: Yes, wa'ii mail it to '.-on 16 ~smorrow, .Dr if you would li~e ~o read in before ~he hearing's clese~ 17 ,2HAiP,~'~OP,LR2~ OLiVA: Yes, ~diss Smi~R? MS. S~,IITN: Just a few corrections there. 18 i am an adjacent property owner where you recan~lLy hat all Lhe pine trees knocked out, m5~ vineva~d is 19 riehl nexG ~o that. So you can see tr~e map, an adjacent property owner, that's net iis~ub~bia. 20 The other Lhing is, the a~dress I recei;eO on the application saiE~ up island somewhere in 21 Nassau Count ~, it did nde say a local a~d~ress gaC in touch with you a~ld it had a 5-1-6 area 22 ec~e, so I di,~ not know that tllese people ]i~,e.~ in Souchold, and if they considered to be neighborly, 23 E,ley could also calk ce ns as neighbors. Bnt Ehe thing that you need to remember ?,~as that building 2% w~s built as a barn. If you look at wl~a~ eha~ was ~ui±E as wh~en Askins owne~ it, it was bdil~ as a 2g barn. When yen change it inLo wine storage -- and ~ha~'s what it says on the paper tha~ was senm £.[a5- 20, 200e 2 me wine storage with c. ffice, it did iioE sa-,~ winerT/. And ho~¥ are you going to have ~ winery 3 wiEhout grapevines? And as far as lifting up a building and 4 moving it back, they de have 11 acres, cheI- could use EhaE as a tarn. If Ehe%~'ra truly going to be 5 a wineri?, they could use i~ as a barn and build a wir~ery fh~rther back where the public could safely 6 enEer a ~roperty and be less of a nuisance ts the neighbors. .C~LZzIRWC.PL:S[ OLIVA: Thank ?on, i,[i ss Smith. Anybody else? If no[, I'il make a mc. zion 8 Es close ~he he,ring and reserve decision nntzl later. ,~ minutes for resol~tion ,£HAIRNO~,~2[ OLIVA: Thank you very much for 10 cc. ming in. I just want to tell you that we make sur 11 decisions probabl5~ in two weeks and ~hen abc. un a week a~ter that it will be wriEEen and Lhen when 12 it's f[!ei with the town clerk, it will be finalized_ 13 CRAIRWC,[,[~[ OLIVA: NexE _llearing, ,~lll~tE~ 1,~ hr. Vi~eili is on .~ll~t~ Dri~,'e, or Ease E, rive, he wishes te build a swimming pc. si Is i5 there someone here who wishes to speak ~,o ~his ~pplicat ion? 16 MR. VITELLI: ~d morning everyone, m5 name is Robert v~i~eili, and this is my wife, 17 Nanc?. And I'm Ehe propert5- owner of !,i, 4~ ,'SilleEme Drive, and because of the hardshis c.f 18 front and back road, we're filing for a variance an 1P ?~s hough~ ~he property in 2001, and imDrsved the property. Ic was a wooded 20 overgrown. We put a house suitable for the area and we'd jure like te mmprove .on it some more 21 a pool, bug we de have chat hardship fronE and hack_ 22 As far as i receiYed a letter frcm the Zoning 8card as far as neighbc, rs concerns, I'd 23 like tc. address that. The houses ~hac are around ~he property and across the street frc. m 2% propert5- are one level ranch hanses. 'fha pcs! ~hat I'm Fropc. sing is an in-ground pool, which 25 O. cesn'c go above the surface, so I chink with Nroper landscaping, if I plant trees arennd it, ir_ Nay 20 , 20 'S, % 17 1 2 won'n be seen by anybody, and as far as wild parties, and me being oun Ehere, I have one 3 iaughter. I've been nhere a year and nobody's compi~ined abouE me being there_ I do nee have 4 wild par~ies. I'm a weekend resident here, and re looking no use the house fOE' summertime use. 5 So I'm proposing if I would puE ~rees around properEy. 6 C~LkiRWON%~2,[ OLII/A: I think that was sne cf Ehe concerns of your neighbors that it was .~loing 7 ~o be a chain link fence, and the,~, didn'n kanna ,chain link fence around_ 8 MR. VITELLI: i have ~o fence nba pool. I'll go whaEever it would ~ake. I'm jusn ~rs-ing 9 to prouect from somebody walking in there and genEing ir~j ured. 10 ~HAIR~C,I~_Z_N OLIVA: You have to put ~he fence around ~he pool. I think nhey were 11 ccncerned abeuE having a fence around nhe perimeter ef your property, of Ehe rear properEy 12 facing Ease Gillette. Did you want to puE a chain i ink E~h=e back there? 13 HR. VITELLI: I want to enclose by cote ehe area, whanever in would take by code 14 flexible w±Eh nhe fence_ CHAIRWOM.~ C, LIVA: To address ysur 15 neighbor's concerll, I would say if yen wane the fence ko nhen put landscaping, same scru .o~ trees, 16 s,e~ne sort of buffer ss nhey wouldn't have nc, look at nhe fenice. So you feel secure knowiilg you have 17 nhe fenice, and ~hey feel beEuer if you ha?e manure pianti~gs nhere nhaE thef do~'~ have no watch ,,~hat 18 ~3u're deing, whaE leu're non doing. MR. VITELLI: I~ would also re~urn it 19 ihe ori~inai look. IE was a wooded lee before_ IE would ]De a manicured Urea line now, bun in will 2,3, still ._sa back to a more rural look. CHAIRWOHAN OLI..,_e. So ,?ou wouldn'u ha.~e 21 any coz~cerns if we put a condition of ,our a~prsval that ~ou planu manure evergreens aU such and such 22 fson aparn a~ nhe rear ant around nhe sides cf ~our property there? 23 MR_ VITELLi: Nee a problem_ ~ was intending on doing in anlcway. 24 CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Mr- OrlanOo? BOARD N~EHSER ORLAi~DO: No questions. 2~ Iu's your backyard_ Thank you far suaking in out, an.i ycu should be allc. wed Eo enternain in your ~,Ia~ 20, 2,?04 18 1 2 back.~ard whetNer i~ has a p. oo~ or no~ a poci. NR. VITELi~I: I had it staked out ~inv_~ -.~ 3 February' so all ~he neighbors can see, certain neighbors that I spea~ to nave mf phone number, so 4 before I even went for e variance c.r when I firsz applied for mI' buildir~g permit in February, se if 5 enybsdy had concerns, there was ways of go,zing in zsuch with me_ They could even drop a ietzer in 6 m', maiibsx, which is across ~he smree~ from h2-~se. IE's righ~ ~here. I did everv~hing tha~ 7 the Board asked as far as ~he raailings and pc. sning. I tried te pose eYerynhing in a Eimeiy 8 f~shic, n sc nobody would be surprised, and i'm no~ pu~ing end, Eking above tlle ground, so I'm figuring 9 it is what it is, and I here {~his hardship cf ~he back road. Se i hope uhe Board leeks favorable en 10 my pro.pesal . BOARD M~MBER C, RLANDC,: You meek all Ehe 11 required seubecks, you juse have unforEuna~e ef ~ws fron~ yards. 12 NR. VITELL, I: Alse, up Eke s~reeE e~ 27C, h ,=~ll=Ee= Drive, they have a pooi- thev went fcra 13 variance ~wo years ago and they have the same siuuaEion, ~heir pool Iaces Eas~ G~ -~ - Driye, 14 ant ~hey do have the chain link fence around ~he property, I also included pictures, and ~heir 15 fenice is no~ cempleEely ce zered, bu~ I will ~ry ~c2ordin9 to what the Beard asks es far ae ~rees 16 ~n:]. landscaping, ~c. cover it up as much as pcssible. 17 ~.3.AP~D MEMBER C, RLANDC,: No c.~her quest ions. 18 CHAIRWOM~2~ OLIO, A: Mrs. Tortor~? BOARE NEMBER TORTORA: I hhink wi~h 19 e~ergreen hedging along Ehat ~ard line ~haE should miEigate Lhe neighbors concerns. ~ ~ OL I '.,P_: Jim? 20 CHAI P. Wc,MAi{ ' ~ BOARD PIE],IBER DINiZIO: JusE so we're 21 fleer, when we ask you Eo put the evergreens, khe5 're going to be planted on ~-our preperUy. 22 Thev're net on the right of wa2. So u. he fence is ~ting tc be back four feeE from your prcperEy 23 line, ';eu're going Ee put these arbor'..inae pit, nEed E1ve, s~x feet apart, or whauever Eh=~ _: gciRg 2e be. MR. VITELLI: I'm ~ery fiexible, whaueyer 2~ eke Board ~ells me to do, I'll comply_ BC, ARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm well aware of May 2,-., 2004 19 2 this neighborhood. It's more th.an just those two pools that have that problem. There are quite a 3 ~ew on Ehe Gardiners Bay side on Gardiners Road, yon defi~i~ely have a hardship, z~ long _as % we're clear on the evergreens, i think we're going ~o be okay_ Thank you. 5 CHAIRNO~,~-2~ OLi'VA: Is there anybcd5 else i~ t?~e autienoe tha~ ~.,ould like ~o speak fs.r or s against ~his application? NR. WELL~: M5- name is Nells, i live 7 .arrcss :[%e street from this proposal and I'm opposed :s i:, as the letter snared. It's ~-ight 8 in m~' fron~ yard, mi' living room, my bedroom, tn'.' f.amily room, v,~hate~rer you want to call i¢, ant 9 ,ia~e, I mean, they've had a couple projects ~here. They pu~ up a berm, then the':' took i~ down Nhen 10 Ehey iefc, :he garbage is scill en the side of the road. Mr. Viteili said he's going to ,ic this and 11 ~hat, Eha: kind of scares me, if he .}ets all done ~,.:e're going ¢o have a pool and fence, and chat's 12 it. It's a sc.arz~ idea, and I think it's goinj te tevalue mz~ propermy and my house, my looks and 13 e~-eNz-thing else with this in m~? fronE yard_ CHAIRNOMi~i{ OLiVA: ?,buid you ha--e a 14 problem if b~e put evergreen, s around the ounside? N[R. WELLS: I'm not opposed ~c. tP~a~ hue 15 saying and dsing it is two different uhings. .~ ~e s going te make him do 16 CHAIRNOHAN OLIVA: Mr. Wells, ~e car~ coniiticn iE thee he ,..~euld hOE gee a CO fsr his 17 swimming pool until we cema and inspect it and n-~ake sure those plantings are in. 16 I,[R. NELL~: Hal?be he 11 clean up tbze mess from the lose job the., did. They gradei the 1 ~ thing. ,2HAiRN,0P, L~N OLIVA: Oka':-, that ' s nc.~ ,our NR. NELLS: This is just going Lo be a 21 scnLinnation, that's my fear. ,2~AIRNOHAN OLIVA: Mr_ Yitelii? 22 HR. VIFELLI: To address ~he issue ef the debris, thaE's another io~ Eha~'s next door. They 23 rieared ~ha~ lot. Ail m~, debris was taken aWOl-. i hired P.T. Nic.ol.a, he was Ehe builder, he ~.,.as 2% responsible for e~-er:~hing tha~ was done the~ Ihs grades are according to the survey Lhat the 2S Town t~as, ss ~here is ~,o loose dirt anywhere. ~s e;~ae~iy what the grades are on the survey [~'Iay 20, 20C, 4 20 2 was submitted. I have pictures and pixar, ss. preperti? line does net include that wooded 3 next Eo i~ and ~hose woods that '~,ere ~a~en do~n by scmebody who had bought tt~at property, ~h~e.~ le~ ~ ~llat debris there, and it's on ~heir proper~y. is no~ on my property line. Tl%e berm in 5 the back was not on the surve,/, t~e~, ~aO Eo remove mha~ extra dirt. to grade it prcperl) for ~rainage. 6 -~'s a ~la~ piece of property, tRe low point is at ~P~e front ef ~he house, and ~he high poi~ is at 7 ~he back. So to ga~ ~he proper drainage there, ant it's all represen~e~ on the survey, there's 8 rcthing b~idden. The pictnres shsw -- thee:,- have mi~e pictures_ ~ C½AIRwOHAN OLIVe: Yes, we do, ~hanF ?cu. Any further questions? If no£ !'11 make a mcEien 10 ho close the heari~g and reserve decisic, n until later _ 11 ,See minutes for resoluEion.l 12 CHAIRWOMRN OLIYA: hex~ hearing is for Nat soulas. 13 MS. KONALSNI: Hr Katsouias, ,,.~e received anc~her letter from one of the neighbors, i'.i l~ke 14 ~s give _ceu a copy. CHAIRWON±A~,[ OLIV2a: They are asking for 15 ~ol~' re o~.~er 20 percent 1o~ coverage, an~ ~'on want ~a go ~e abeu~ 28, 28 percent of let coverage? 16 [IR. ±{ATSOULAS: The thing is p~rr_ of tha~ is ~he deck, wb~ich is -- I ha,.e an in-ground pool 17 Rnd the deck is nor. elevateO, it's even ~..i~h _srcund, and I understand if Ei~e dec]{ is even ~.~ith iS ~he ground, that doesn't consider like a living ssace. I~'s like my property gses to incline az~.i 19 ?.'non I huil~ the deck, I had ac~ualll- dig iE from rte wes~ side, actuall}~ southwest te pu~ the flosr 20 beams dcwn. So i~'s about l0 percent of ~he tuck is even with the ground. 21 BOARD H~HBER ,O~LY2[D,D: I believe ~he ln~arpretaEien of the Building Department is if 22 thel- can drive a Sawn mower o_~er i~ from the }rass; is that correct? 23 [IR. KATSOULAS: You coult, but ElTo fence is around so i~o-~ can't. You can come from 24 hes~ side, southwest side and vo~ can dri-?e a lawn 2S HRS. FC~FSC, ULAS: The problem is i~'s a slope ss t~e verl/ en~ of it is just raised up li?_e ha!? 20, 260e 21 1 2 ~his. I mean, ~ha~ pool's been there since MR. I{ATSOULAS: I had ts put the deck 3 level so. [.IS. ROWALSEI: I believe the architect % ,~eLermined the lot coverage on ~ha~, and ±'m not snre whether ne included Ehe dec~_ in the% lee b co-~erage. Would you be able to tell us? CPL~IRWOPL'~2} OLi~JA: 23_ 9 percent is what 6 -ctl have now, and you want te go to 28_-. BOARD NEMBER TORTORA: I den't see a 7 breakdown on the new. MS. PiOWAhSKI: Do !~eu ±late a set of plans 8 ~,~i¥.h jeu, Hr. Katsonlas? I,~R_ I~_~TSOULAS: Yc_s. We have 5' setbacks, one for ~he garage ani one for 10 MS P[ON.-iLSKI: Have you a breakdo?~n from Ehe archimecE on one ef the pages of Ute plan? 11 BOARD NIEPIBER TORTORA: Yes, it's iii fectr point typeface on the plans_ 12 BOARD f{EP,'IBER ORLi-I~DO: Two car garage is 733 square feet_ 13 . HRS. FS-_TSOULAS: Ne brough~ new plans in_ BOARD HENBER TORTORA: I~'s ss snail on 14 sur plans, unless we have a magnifying glass. i,~S. KONALSKI: Your architect included tt~e 15 deck around Ehe peel, ~-eu'd have zo ha-.e him ccrrect it_ 16 CRAIR?IOM£d~ OLI~_: He has tile pool and deck included and house deck. See, right down 17 here, ff you can see it. HR. K'~.TSOULAS: Is uhe peel considered 13 part of - NS. KOWALSKI: ~Fhe Building Departmen~ 19 t,.,suld ~ecide - CHAIRWOPL~N OLIVA: Here you t~a:.-e ~he 20 house and decl£ ant then you have Ene pool ani deck. 21 MP_. ~ikTSOULAS: },'{ha~ do i~ou wan~ me do? 22 CHAIR{'~OM3/~ OLIVA: He's going tc have to _~i~.e us the square footage of ~e peel and also a 23 determination whether that dec]{ is on tt~e greund, and therefore exempt from squaA-e footage 24 MR. t,'_ATSOULAS: it' s :tn-ground pool. CHAIRNOP~Zd{ OhlllA: T~le in-ground pooi is 2b ~.ar~ cf your square footage- I.[R. K-:TSOULAS: Let me finish_ The Ha~ 2,3, 2004 22 1 2 in-ground pool, so the deck is level with the pool 3 C~AIRWOM_~ OLIVA: But how about this hcuse and decM_ it says, is Ehat deck on gro_~nd 4 level or is it raised? HR. KATSOULAS: The frenE deck is raised_ b C~AIRWONL%N OLIiiA: But t~at is considered part of your s~uare footage. 6 MR. KATSOULAS: I'm non disagreeing wiu~ mhaU. i ~OARD MENBER ORLA/~DO: l~'s the pool decR:. MS. KOWALSKI: Do l.eu have picEures? 8 MRS. }i%TSOULAS: No_ The ertl}~ reasoi1 we EhoughE was going Eo be the problem wiEh the 9 ~ ariance was ~he lot coverage, ~,,hich ~he exnra io~ co~,erage was going ~o be the two car garege, which 10 defini~el~~ we can de anything. We dor~'E even nave Eo have thaE garage_ IZ was if we could gee thaE, 11 fine. Really we're going for a second flocr -- secen{ snory deck abo!e an exisuing deck t~au was 12 mlread-~ ,'ears age we pu~ in, ha~ variance and everLENing_ So ~haE's if you don't appro/e s! the 13 posi - I mean nhe gsrage, %haE's fine. P. ighz here we're j usz concerned abouz a deck EhmU's 14 above an existing deck alread-,. Ne bigger, no smaller, same size, directl/ adore en zhe second 15 floor. BOARD MEMBER TORTOP2h: Your plan is very 16 confusing. MP.. KATSOULAS: I know. LeE me explain. 1~ On fromE of ttte ~euse i want to put two peaks as shown, because Ehe roof sErucEure now, Ehe fron~ 18 of zhe P~ouse is verf old. IE's only Ewe by four. i'm in Ehe censErucEien business so - 19 BEARD MEHBER ORLsi[DO: Yon're goin~ Ec EkE reverse gables in Elle front? 20 HR. F~_TSOULAS: Two reverse gables. I v. ant te put a window that shows on :he plan, I 21 bane also a sliding deer en zhe east side and wiu~ e deck. it's 8 by 11, whatever t~e firsE fleer 22 ieck and zhau's iz. BC,ARD MENBER TORTORA: The problem is 23 zhis: Ne nave exis~ir~g lee coverage of 29 persenE, 23.9. On your architect's plans, 24 sub~izteO by your architecz ~hae's en uhe plans, ul~at's en whaE you submitEed here, the proposed 25 house pecl is 36-95 and the garage is 7 33, which would bring you to 28.7 [o~ coverage. So what we Mas- 20, 2004 23 1 2 either kayo to see re,~ised calculations here £.ecause what you're saying does not mesh with ~ plans from the arcb~itect, wha~ you've submitted, and we have ne wa2 of quic~_lI looking aE this e ascertaining. You do ha,re existing lee coverage right now of almost 24 percent, period. According ~ ~o i?our calculations and your architect's plans. That's what you submitted uo us. 6 HR. PiATSOULAS: So eliminate the garage_ BOARD MEMBER ORL32~DO: Is that what ? /cu're calling the pool house, ~he garage? CKAiRWO±~AN OLiVA: What is the existing 8 house pool? ~OARD MEPIBER OR,ANt, O: I ~van~ to know 9 what the house pool was. MR. KATSOULAS: In ~he back I ha,,e ~he 10 filters in t}le iit~la enclosed there. CHAIRPTOMAN OLIVA: If l'ou do no~ have the 11 garage, according Co the figures ~han /ou ha~e here en this plan, then you're not really adding 12 _~n.~ching on that requires a variance_ I,IP.. KATSOULAS: Exactiz, yes. 13 BOARD MENIBER ORLANDO: Still the fron~ 5~ar~ setback-. 1% MR. KATSOULAS: The front iard setbacks, 1~ 2HAiRNOHAN OLIVA: As far ms the percentage of developmen~ on your properti? 16 remain a~ 23.9 perce~t. FR. ?2aTSOULAS: Without the garage, 'es. 17 CHAIRWO[',{}2[ OLIVA~ NittlouE the garage but -.ou still need the front yard seEOack. 18 M£. KOWALSKI~ Is the deck replacing a ~eck? 19 FIRS. ?;_~TSOUhAS: No. it' s just going ~irec~ly abo-.-e. I don't know if you knew 20 preper~y. Ne have Captain Marty's in front of cur house. ?~e beugh~ the house from his parents. He 21 has ~oa~s in frenn of the house, we den'n .mare. So we have a really Nice view and with those beats 22 there, and we've never complained. We like P~il, ?~e do business there. Ne jus~ want eo put a 23 seeond story deck so we can leek o~t and epprecia~e 5ne view. 2% NS Ku~[s. LsKI: It's the garage Lhat's chaz~ging ,~our lot .coverage. 2B HRS. ~,i~.TSOULAS: I knox.. Fine, the~. said p'_~E iu on so you don'U t~a~e to go twice iaUer on Flay 20, 2,1,04 2-t 1 2 down Ehe road. If Ehe garage is a problem, scrub 3 MR. ~i~?SOUk~S: There \gas a barn, the oit sur:ey sho,s a barn. ~he~ we bo~ghn Ehe house 4 back in '87_ ~,iRS. FSeTSOULAS: Nihh ute garage we were 5 ~cing to replace it bu~ we wan~ed i~ a little bigger. 6 MS. KOWALSI~I: Thee li~Eie deck still ~eeds a setOack ~ariance. 7 t4RS. F3TSOULAS: Fine. l'haE' s the uhing I'm concerned abouE. B ,2HAIPJgONLnl'~ OLIVA: Ali you nee~ really is the fronE yard seE~ack for tMe deck Eha~ you wis~ 9 to ~uiid Eo have a view and look out. MRS. Bi%TSOULAS: Absolu~ely. 10 ~{R. I<ATSOULAS: Also ~,,e puE a roof abo?e the existing patio there en ute left ef Ehe 11 llsuse. HRS. KATSOULAS: I~'s going ~o Ehe eoEuom of ~he deck. 12 S~IRP~OM3i.~ OLIVA: Vis, cent, /on ha~.e more questions? 13 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: The roof of tP~e patio, is i~ going ~o be opene{ up? 14 HR. FIeTSOU~AS: Open porch. MS_ KONALSKI: Would ~eu like ue give us a 15 ie~ter withdrawing ~he porEion wit~ r. he garage, we ,ran mark ~he file changed and proceed from there? 16 MRS. KATSOULAS: AbsoluEelv. MR Fis~TSOUZ,AS: Is Ehere an5' wa,~ we can 17 make in smaller? I know I proposed a big 2% by 30, i do have Ehae preper5y in 5he back, can 18 make i~ a one car garage, 18 by 24? PIS. KOWALSKI: You can aiw~ys reapply. 19 NP.. KATSOULieS: I can always reapply? ROxRD MEMBER ORLF~[DO: I 5hink ~eu need 20 ~o i~r. es5igaEe the ~eck aro%~nd ~he pool and see if i~ si~oul,~ be part of your square footage or 21 I uhink you should inquire about that because would reduce yoh~r leu coverage and you wouldn'u 22 need a variance for the garage. MR_ KATSC,ULAS: I understan,l. So, !o 23 have ~to call 5Me archi~ect again, and how 5hal works ouE. Who is going Eo deEermine wNe5t~er Ehe 24 !euk around the pool is ground ie~el er is ele zated? 25 HS_ KONALSKI: That's ne5 Ehe issue right now if you're going 5o wiEh~raw the garage, Flay 20, 2004 25 1 2 fi,Dr the future. BOARD MEI~BER ORLANDO: Yes. 3 [',IR. KATSOULAS: So the archiEecE will iet ermine that_ . ~rchlt=~t and Ehe Building 4 HS KOWALSRI: ~ ' ~ Bep~rKment_ ~ IqR. tCATSOULAS: And ~Ne Building Inspectcr. 6 HS. KONALSKI: Show Uhem pher. egraphs. HRS. P~.PSOUL.,s: Right_ For now can ye - jus~ do the deckP CHAiRWOi~AN OLIVA: Do the setbacks for 8 iecJ~. CltAIRNON[~2~ OLIVA: ~,'Trs. ~orCoral D BOARD HEHBER T2~RTOPS~ I would like to see screeching in wrici~lg that ~l~ey have agreed cz lg :Femove [he garage. CHAIRNOP]AN OLIVA: Sim? 1~ B,2.-~.~, M~N'IB~R DINIZYO: Wh~ are yeu going ~o do ~n.iernea~il? Are you going ho enclose thacl 12 MR. KATSOU[~AS: Iio. 2,2,~D MEHBER DIi, IIZIO: So yoe don't inEend 13 to enclose [~e e:{iscing patio ence yeu puc a reef 1~ MRS. Fz~l~sGL=s: No ~P~e behtom o~ Ehe bop 16 B,S,~.D PI~?~IB~R DINIZIO: Sc basically, ~he de2k you're punning up tep there will he able 1-i rain ~llrotigh, Ehere's no rosfing [here_ ~r. e,~, ~ No. The deck is c,n 17 ri.gh~ side facing Ehe house ant Ehe roof o~er hb~e p~=z~ is on the iefu side where you ga. in ti~e main 18 deer. MRS. KATSOULAS: Are you Ealkin2 abcuE the 19 fron[ roof? BOARD H~,iBEF_ DINIZIO: No_ i am jusn 20 .soncerne,~ abouE uhe twe decks '=eu're going ~s puu ox. i .tcn'~ want underneaEh no turn inns a room 21 cf -=-s, Mr hot, se. MR. IZ~_TSOULAS: Big house, i don'[ need ~C, ARD MEMBER DiNIZiO: It's not ge. illg tc 23 be enclosed and our decision's going ~o say ~hat. Listen to wha~ i'm saying, please. Our .tecision 24 is going Eo say t~at ~-oe cannel en.21ose nhau, and we will le~ ycu ha.-e ~he deck_ So ~ha~ meal, s 25 '~su're nat going ~o be able to come back en21ose ~ha~. i'.Iai' 20, 2,2,.1,4 2 NRS. K_~ ~ SuUL~_b = Plo. BOARD MEMBER DiNIZIO: I wan~ to, be clear 3 on tha~. If you agree te ~hat now - ~qRS. k~TsOUL~s. I agree te that. ~ BOARD MEMBER DINI,~IO: You couit not agree ~-.~ Zha~, it weuidn't make a difference zo me. 5 I.IR ~T~,JUL~. We have ~lo 2holce. BC, I~P_D HEI,'[~ER DINIZiO: In o~her words, ~c,u ,5 ?~an~ ehe deck, you're goi~g Eo give something t~p, and i~'s going to be ~ha~.z~._,u're not going tc ~ put another room ~here. NR. Yz~T~uULs.~: Let me ask you something_ S ~n we puc screen - BOARD HEr,.I~ER DiNIZiO: i den' t 5hink you P can an,close sha~. I just wan~ ~o point ~ha~ ou~ 5o you_ Hy opinion, personal opinion is ice, uld 10 sara less, but I can 5ell you that the Board is ~sing 5o restrict cernain things ~hat ,-au can do 11 ~here, 5has's going 5o be one of 5hem. So, ~-ou wen~ te walk away knowing 5ha~ and I jus~ wan~ ~ou 12 5c walk away knowing uhas. ~M~_IR$~d.~_N C, LIi%A: So Lo sum up, -~oa are 13 ~sing %0 send us a letter sSa~ing 5ha~ you're withdrawing your appiica~ion for the garage. 14 Number 2, ~hah we will consider [he deck mR open deck neser ~o be enclosed at ute same setback ~hat lB you have ~ow, whic~ is eigh~ foot, am I correct, from ~he front yard? And if you decide 16 anything further, you will have [.s go be2k [o your archi[ect and ~he Buildin9 Depar~menE ~:o de,ermine 17 mhe s~luare footage of ~.our poei and the deck around eha~ if Eha~'s included in pour lot le coverage; is ~ha~ correct? ~.[RS . KP_TS~L~_s xes _ 19 CHAiRWOHAN OLIiC%: Ne're clear on mhan_ Le~ me jusm see, is nhere ~i' ~I~,Oo.my in the 20 {~udience who wishas ho speak for or against this2 Jknv o~her questions for ~he Board? Then I m~ke a 21 momion me close mhis hearing and reserve decision ~x~ii la~er. 22 ,See minu[es for resolutions_, ~.~IR~'~J[d~lq u~Ll.~,~: Our nex~ appiica~ion is fsr Pe~er and Arlene i.Ianos. The5 wish ~o expand 24 ~he house and puK a lap pool in the side ~ari. Hr. Strang? 25 [dR. ST~aN(;: Yes, goad morning, Garre~ S~rang, erchi2ece, represenRing Peter as~,t Arlene May 20, 2004 27 1 2 Manss. First I'd like us submit EO ~he 8oard The 3 c~eLermination That we receive~ from the TrusUees sc you ha,.e it for your reosrd ~.handing~ . % Ne're also presently awaiting ~e~erminaEion from the DEC with respec~ ~o ~ jurisdictional inquiri on This_ Once we recei~e Et~aE wa'il be happy es forward EhaE determination 6 to ENo Board. The application we have here, jusu a ~uick ~ review, if you will, a history on This, iny clients a while back before we were working togeuher, had 8 in~e an application ~o ~his Board for a swimming pool. 9 CHA~RWOM~i,I OLIYR: Correct _ MR. STP~2?G: And the pooi was sho~,~n Es be 10 in the rear k'ard, if you will, on the waterside of Eke house. U1Limateif El%is Board Oenied ~his 11 app±icaEion. CHAIRWOMAN OLI ~LA: Righ~. 12 HR. STR_'~2[0: Smbsequen~ to thee we have hod several meetings and numerous conversKmlsns, 13 and al~hougt~ a pool is allowed Ol' code in the front ~'ard of r. he house, ~he street side of the 1% boise, in m}.' opinion I ~on't thin]£ that is The best lccaEion. Specificalll', nhe leE, the wh~ole lg aYea is relativel/ open. It's not like it's a wooded area · YE ' s an spell area. There are nc 16 o~her pools in front l, ards in This area, so · seiieve That putting The poei in the front yart, 17 it would be sue of character. I bellevue it woul.~ have an negative impact on ute neighborhood as 18 ',.;ell as ]-~ot be being var-,~ neighborly, and i~'s nee really a practica! location, and I don'~ kno% Ellat 19 iT's a great, preceden~ Es set to put the pool in ~he fronn /ard in ~ilis particular instance. 20 Sc. given Those concerr~s, o~r proposal au This point is Es demolish The exisuing garage or~ 21 ~he side ef the house Eo gain us more reeln, ot~iousli% and us place the pool o~ Eno side yard 22 and ~o bllild a ~eEached garage in the fronL yard, which will basicallI, screen the pool from the 23 neighberbsod. I~ will net only give privacy to m_~ clienns, but it will also nee have a disual Lmpac~ 24 in my opinion Eo The neighborhood a~ld nc ,~eErimental or adverse affects To ~he qualit}' or 2b clnaracuer of the neighborhood_ CHAIRWONAi,? ShiVs: You will pu~ screenin~ Play 20, 2004 28 1 2 on the east side? MR. ~R~iT'=: Ne will put screening alsng 3 uhe east side, there will be a fence requirei b5 csde, and we will puE some screen plan~ing along 4 nhat fence as well. i~'s really ~he most ~.racticai_ location given uhe facu EhaY Ehat ~-'~'z.~e, 5 once ~he garage is demo'd, ~hat side of ~he house is where ~he living and dining and kitchen area 6 are, so i~'s readily accessible ~.s the posl are~, ani i don'E know eha~ we have another pracEical ~ icca~ion. I ~hink this is the bes~ practical locaEien given Ehe fact ~hau ~he Board did objecE 8 ~,s ~he ~ooi being in the rear yard. So ~ha~ being said and no~ to belabor ~he issue, I' ii address 9 any questions. ~E~IRNo~LA2{ OLiVA: bio. I was one of ~Lie 1.i, 2. nes YheE really objecEed te EhaL 30 fes~ from ~he bl~ff. But this really I think is a beEPer 11 lt. ceLisn, and i complimenL ~he people on redoing ~he whcie plo~ ~hau's more~nZo~mzng~ - ~ : and h. et~er 12 for the binff. Vincenz? BOiP_D HEi. IBER ORLi-iIDO: iio questions jusE a !3 comment far '~eu no please pass on a thank you to. ycur clier~5. 14 MR. s~R}~,~: My ciien~ is siEting in the _ ~ ~ iyplc~ll_ iE's 15 BC,~RD NEN~SR ORLANDO: ~ ' -- ~ ~, Ye file an ,rtl~l~ 7~ agains~ us once ye den1- 16 something, but he and she ~ook ~he ~ime to redesign it, so i ~mm=nt~'~ - , ~hem for ~ha~. Thank 17 ys,2. ,2HA i RWOI~LA2[ OLIVA: Lydia l 18 BOAP_D MEMBER FC, RTORA: Likewise, i commend you- I ha~e eno question. Nhy did, instead 19 ,ou're going ~o ~ake down Ehah garage are~, why ncE bring Ehe pool ever closer Eo hhe walkwas- and 20 the house then, just get in a ii~le furnher off the propersy line. I know five foo~ is five foci, 21 ~uE 5su de have a ~ice nine fc, s,~ e}zpanse Ehere 22 MR. STRs2TG: E can appreciate wha~ you're sm/lnG. TNe reason ~,e're Nolding i~ ~hat dis~an,2e 23 is ENaL nine feet is realii noE all ~ha~ much, ma~be frcm here to the wail. 24 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: IE's acEually n~ne fee~ less she four feeE for Ehe walkway. So you 25 hm.-e symme~.ry, }ou have five and five? [.IR_ STR~iIG: To a certain exLenn yes, 2~ iL 2 but, again, as I mentioned earlier, ttlere's a lee of acti?i~y happening in that area, coming ok~t of 3 ~he kitche~ and living area, ant I believe it's safer ts. ha-.e as much distance between the house 4 and the edge of the pool and to hold it to ~f~at eg. sterly propert? line, so as not to ha~.e a S mishap, especially with grandchildren and the like ma-,-be darting out the door, not paying too m~ch 6 a~tention, so we're trying to keep as much space there as practical and sEili maintain the required ? five foot setback_s. BO/~2%D ME}[BER TORTOP~_: _Amid the waikwe% 's 8 gsing to ,some up to she house ani ~]-~en will r. he wa ikwa~: extend? c, MR. STRANG: No, that will be ~errace aC grade. Fhe walkway's only up, hz. the corner enZr:,~. 10 ~O:LJ~D MEI,'IBER TORTOPA: So the garage area, ui-~at nine foou area, running along the pool will 11 be -- NR. sTR~,N,~: TNaE will be open. The 12 walkway is -- actuall~~, i~'s a covered walkway i~'s net enclosed, it's still going ts. be an open 13 feel, but again my concern is minimize, reducing EhaL nine feet I tb~ink is not a good situatic, n. I 14 think .... ,.~ r= be~ter holding iE closez- tc the prspert5~ line. iS BC,ARD HENBER TORTORA: Okay. a qumes Eien. 16 CHA I RWO['~IM.~ OLIVA: Jim? BOARD HENBER DINIZIO: I walked by this, 17 walk by this every day, quarter te 7:00, I go b5 this house, and ii am just wondering hew uhe 15 r~eighbsr feels about Ellis in that this is .:icing be right next to what looks like his master 19 heirosm. I'm just wondering if any comments were made by this, er if the -' ^~' n=~ghk.~_ s here rand 20 they' re commenting on it. MR ~TR~i.~: i nee sure if the neighbor 21 is gresent, obviously the neigh~bor ~..as noLified. I don't know if ms~ client has had ally 22 cen~.ersations wit.~t ~he neighbor to the east. i,iR_ PAPAS: i em the neighbor. 23 ~OARD NIE~,~BER DINIZIO: Yon are the neighbor Es nhe east? You have no objections? 2% HR. PAPAS: Dimitrlus Papas, P-A-P-A S, 21,30 Scund Drive. I have no objections. 25 BOARD I~[E[,IBER DIT[IZIO: I was ju~s~_ lc. eking cue for iou. If you have no obiecEion uo it, and [,Ia: 2,2,, 2C, 0~ 30 1 2 it's dull? noted, then I have no objection. ,2HkiRW,DT~D~2,I OLIVA: Does anybody else ill 3 clio audience wish to speak for or against This ~ppiicatien? if not, I'll make a motion to ,close 4 the hearing and reserve decision until later. ~,See minutes for resolution ', CHAiRNOI<kN C, LIVA: Our next hearin~ is for ~ Robert and Joann Hegermiller, ti~ef wish to build a new house. I have Ewo front streets, cnn siie, [,IS. KOWALSKI: It's an addition to a new 8 house that's being built_ MR. HE~EPtIILLER: Good morrzing, mv wiEe ~ Jc. ann and I, we're building a new house on the corner of Sreen Hill Lane and inland Pond Road. 10 The house is currently under ccns~rucEisn_ The foundation has been poured, iE has Seen framed; ll however, we ha,~e postponed construction of the garage I guess reail,_.- two reasons, financial as 12 well as ~he foundation for the garage, an error was made when it was poured, and it's 13 ~pproxima~ely eight inches too close tc Inland 2end Road, iE deesn'E meet the minimum seEback. 14 lc was no~ done incentionaiiy, it was an error, and we're requesEing ~ variance. lB BOARD [.IE[,'TBER TORTOP_%_: How dit Ehat 16 NR. ½E=ERMILLER: Tl~e contractor I ha-n, hired I did it separately, i had Ehe garage =~und~tz~n poured first, subsequentii~ I had the house fcundation poured. But when ~he oonEractor 1,~ that poured the foundation for the gara_~e i thoughu he would have Ehe equipment us stake 19 the dimensions for Ehe garage. He did ncc. eosk off chat day, I wes actually at Ehe site, I 2,1, made an error, and I did my best to see where that silouid go., and I mode an error_ 21 BOARD DIENBER TORTORA: So ~ou're here i_~_ than half a foot? 22 NP.. HEGERHILLER: It's prob~bi!- ebsut se~-en, eight inches. 23 BOARD HEMBER TORTOPJe: I have ~b~.~.lu___, , :-~s objecuions. _H_~_iR~,d}L12~ OLIVA: I don't either. LooNs like it's going to be a ver-~ nice house_ 25 BOARD i~[EMBER ORLANDO: Just out of curissity, whaE was Ehe seEback Ehat you gave him [.[a5- 2,3, 20z,% 31 1 2 ~ha~ you wanted to be; did ycu wan~ to be at iS? MR. HEJERMILhER: Yes. 3 BC, ARE~ MEMBER ORLf~2[D,O: i knew tha~ eha[ censEructlen site of ~he industry is not very 4 accurate, tight tolerances like ~ha~, i~'s tou~h, and I feel bad far you. I have ne questions. 5 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: In Ehe future give ycurself aboz~t six inches reom on either side EhaE 6 wa-? if ~here's an error, kind of pretecu yourself. BOARD HEHBER DINIZIO: I weuid say, if 7 vou ~r~e~sured the cemenh you're going to have seven inshes, and I walk hy this hevse areund 20 minutes 8 ~o 7:00 e,~er? da,l, and I was wondering wh iidn'e sEar~ on EhaE garage art, of course, I saw c. Ehe sign cue Ehere. I jusn have, because I ha~-e been looking ~ i~ every day, and iu looks like 10 you're only pu~ing ene car arid ~he o~her par~ is 11 MR. P[EGERMiLLER: PhaL's correcn, is gues~ quarters. 12 BOARD NI~MBER E, iNIZIO: Nhat's i~ geing be? 13 MR HEGERHILLER Guest quarters. BCCeRD MEHBER DINIZIO: I mean, is ~here 14 going ~s. be a stove and refrigerauer? HR. ~E~ERHILLER: ' ~ ~ . 15 B,S,~_D I4E?4BER E, INIZiO: Sleeping? . HR. ~SRHILLER ~, wi~h an upstairs. 16 BOARD [¥IEMS~R E, INIZiO: I'm glad i aske.i Lha~ quesLion, ehat's all I have. No objections. ii As i sa,5 I de walk by every day. .~.INN~H~i~ OLIVA: Fha garage is athacNet 1 9 Ct9 e 1~ away. ,~HAIR e.I,Ll21 OLiVA: Yon'll have hhe garbage 20 downstairs and living quarters upstairsi MR. HEGERMILL~R Cerrect_ I had 21 originaiiI wan~ed the garage 20 feet from Ehe iis~e, hewever, since ih has the kitchen, Ehe 22 Building Depar~menE required me te attach e:er}~Yhing wihh an enclesed breezeway bezween 23 rosin house end nhen ehe garage wi~h guest quarners, which I'm doing. 24 CHAIPWOP[i-2.I OLI~A%:~n~ ~i', oEher questions? B~RD MEM~ER ORLANDO: So you ha:e two 25 ]{iEcl]ens in ?our house, Ehe guesE -- HR. HEGERHILLER: IL is so far iown Hay 20, 2004 32 1 2 road, but that is the plan, yes. ,2~AI~OHAN OLIVA: An?body in the audience 3 have any opinions about this application for er against? If not, ~'11 make a motion to close the 4 hearing, reserve decision until later. {'See minutes for resolution., 5 CHAIRWOH}2,~ 0¼1VA: Thank you, sir. 6 C~AIRWOM~ OLII~A: Our next hearing is for Anchor Lane, tLC because i'ou're less than 7~ feet 7 from the bulkhead. MR. REESE: Bill Reese, I'm the architec~ 8 representing the owner. I just want to summarize the reasons for Ehis. ~ C~AIRWOMAN OLIVe: You ~ad ~hat staked out 10 MR. REESE: Yes_ We're asking for a ~ariance of less than 75 feet from an existing 11 kulk~ead T~e closes~ dimension to the Sulkhea{ is ~ne bulkhead on ~he adjoining properEl, 12 ~u!}~hea~ was built after the existing structure was in place_ In e~her words, t~e bulkhead was 13 alreaty buil~ too ciasa to t~e house_ The existing house is very small, one story structure, 14 and i~'s squeezed on ~hree sides. The front of ~he house ~as specimen trees, which I ~hink wes 15 a2~ually pare of Ehe original es~aEe of ~hat ~e~elopmenE. The east side has Ehe septic system, 16 ani ~he west side we're actually going Eo give up, I don't know exactly what iE is, two, ~nree faeE 17 cf existing structure that's non-compiymng anS make that complying on EhaE side. Ne're asXing 18 fcra four foo~ addition on the back of the exisEing house, which puts ns 61.6 feet to 19 e×is~ing bulkhead en Ehe neighboring properE~ and 69.7b feen on this property_ 20 The DEC has no problems when it's o~.er 10 foot ele,~aEion, which this is, and Ehe Board cf 21 Trustees ~a~ze approved this. CHAIP_WOPiAN OLIVe: Quite a slope frcm ~he 22 house. And ou~ of curiosity, iour easement is on the east side for 5~ou to get down to nra dec}~ 23 ERere? MR. REESE: The legal easement, ,es_ 24 ihere's a retaining wall down at the bottom tha~ we have ~o go down around through the stairs. 2 ~ CHAIRWOMAN OL IVA: Jim ? ~C, ARD HEHBER E,~NIZIO: I~ says May 20, 2004 33 1 2 resonstruc~ing, are y~u going ~o jus~ take the house down? 3 MR. REESE: Keep as much as possible but I wsuid sa':' probably 7S percenE of i~ will gc, 4 percent, be working wiEh ~he existing foundaEion_ 5 BDARD HEHBER DiNiZiO~ You'll keep ute foundeEicn? 6 [.iR. REESE: Keep the foundaticn and the ~d~ltl.~h~ will be on a crawl space_ 7 BO3tD MEMBER DII~IZIO: That's all I have_ ,THAI RWOI~2~ ,OLIVA: Lydia? 8 BOARD MEHBER 'TC, RTORA: No questions. .gila I RNOH~i.~ OLI ./2.: V~ncen~ ? 9 BC.ARD MEMBER C, RLR~O: No quesmions. ~H~.IRWu%IAt~ OLiVA: 2-m~/one in the audience 10 wishes to speak for or againsL nhis appiic~ion} if net, I'm m~ke a me,ion closing ute hearing 11 reser ~ing decision un,il later_ ~See minu~es for reselu~icn., 12 ,2HAIRNOP~2[ OLiVA: Thank ~,'ou very much, sir, for coming in. We will no~ make a decision 13 ~oday, decisions will be made absuE Ewo weeks from ncw and the acEual wri~Een iecision will be done 14 abcu~ e week after that_ ........................ 1S CHAIRWOMAN OLI~,. Nex~ hearing is Hark and Carla Haynes, which is on ~he Long ?,'ay in Ease I6 Mmrion. HR. HAYNES: Good morning, I'm 17 Haynes, I' m ute archiuecn and owner. I hKye sm. me irawings Ehat i ~.euld like ~o issue, is Ehat all 18 righn? CHAi RW,2, HA2I OLIVA: Sure. 19 [.IR. HAYNES: There's also photosraphs ?.~iLh ~hese. When my wife and i began designin~ ~,~, Ehe hcuse, we decided Ee set the house as for bauk as possible, and if you look at ~he plcu plan uhat 21 i jus~ ga-~e you folks, ~he house is acuuaii~ aimos~ mid plot, it's abou~ 80 fee~ wide by 350 22 deep. So by setting the house so far ~eck i~ was growl because Ehe privacy issue ~hat we hare and 23 jus~ good design. It worked ou~ very well with ~he design EhaE Ehe garage is in the frone yard, 24 ani i remlly didn'L uhink it would have much of an impauE cn ~he neighborhood, if any, beceuse mmn-,- 2~ of ~he hemes in Pebble Bosch ha~e Lhese mwo car garages uhau are basically righu up on Ehe May 2.{,, 2004 34 1 2 Froper~2, en the setback line ane some ef those ~hs~os indicate that. Whereas this garage, it's a 3 '-er; small unit, it's 18 by 12. i designed it to ha-'e the same proportions and elements as the main 4 house and that's why I brought these drawings here to show that. It's setback quite a ways from our 5 prsperty line, about 97 feeu from the property line, and ute inuenu was tnau a passerb~ loe}~ing 6 a~ the property really may not be able to determine if the garage is atuached or if it's ~ connected in some way, that actually becomes par~ cf the main house. What I also submitteO today 8 ~as a drawing with a proposed deck, an entrance deck_ I originally had an enurance ~eck designed 9 for the house. I~'s made of ~eak, and what I was proposing today was masdDe pulling unat deck eun 10 e-en fur~Rer and connecting in te the garage. That's basically where we are_ 11 CE~IRWONL~2~ OLIVA: I didn't see any big I mean, you baize a long, narrow lot there. It's 12 tint ef hard Eo go around and pul something in ute back. You've built out prenny much uo ute sides. 13 ,~insenE, Oo you have any questisns? BOARD HEHBER ORLanDO: Yes_ It states on 14 =he bottom ,you were issued a building permit; was this on 5'our surye¥? 15 HR. HAYNES: Yes. BOARD HEHBER .DRLA27DO: How many 16 inspectisns did you get on ',our house before thei finally saw this? 1; MR. HAYNES: Just one. W~en the; same to ic the survey of uhe foundation the\- sa5{ it. 18 BOARD MEHBER ORL~{D.D: When you resubmitted the feunOaEion survey? 19 MR_ E~YNES: Right. When they actually came out te inspect for uhe parging ef the snap 20 ties and they saw t~at the garage ~,~as in the frsn~ yarO and uhey called ire said, Mr. Haynes, we have 21 some gcsd news and some bad news, t~e faun{arian parging is wonderful, but your garage is in uhe 22 fr.sn~ yar~, an~ you're not allowed te dc that_ rte\- saiO you cannot ~uil{ uhe garage, ant you 23 have Eo go for a variance, and i~ was a mistake. ie shoulO ha~e Seen picked up. during the 24 examination period. BOARD MEMBER ORLAi'~DO: Au least the}; were 25 nice encugh ~o let you continue with the framing. MR. HAYNES: They were, the house is Hay 20, 2C0=~ 35 1 2 almost csmpieEe, Ehe outside is. BC,!~i%D HEIqBER ORLA~DO: ThaE ' s wh~: I was 3 c~rious how long. before ~hey ac~nallv picked up. ~ CHAIRNONL~2{ OLIVA: Are you ccming s~raigh~ inEe the garage from Ehe s~reet? 5 BOA~.D MEMBER ORL~ilE, C,: I.lo, side, as per ute drawings. 6 CHAIRWOHAN OLIv.,. ~ou're pretU5 narrow right here, iE loeked very narrow. 7 ~.'~. HAYNES: This is a narrow driveway, this is EPee pornien of the garage you car see from 8 the streeE, it has a very large oyerhang meucnes the overhang on the main house. We did 9 leave aioE ef vegetation between ourseP, es cur neighbors, Mike and }m~n, and iE's a real nice 10 buffer and Ehe garage doers acEnally feue Eheir home, but there's a tremendous bk~ffer between the 11 two properties. Nhich we didn'n clemr uhe ennire preperUy and build a home. I ectuall5, paid e lot 12 more money to do more of a surgioal cue of the prcperty, it's worked .sun well, and this is where 13 i am right now. BO}iD MEMBER ORLAiIDO: lie other questions 14 for me. ,2HAiRNOHAN ~sLI ~.. 1S BOARD I~EHBER TORTORA: No_ You are almost 103 feet from Ehe Main Road_ The architectural 16 clans lcck beautiful, and i think it's goin.8 Ee be ~ tremends, us asseE Eo the neighborhood. 17 HR. ~AYNES: Thank you_ CHAI RWC,HAN OLIVA: Ji~n? 18 Se=~RD MEMBER DiNIZIO: Ne questions. CNAIRNOM~.i OLIVA: is ~here aR~'~o,~~, ~n 19 akl.iience who wishes to spe~k for or against nhis application? If not, I'll meke a mouis, n to close 20 2he hearing reserve decision unEii later. ~See minutes fcr resolh~lion. ~ 21 ,THAIRW.P~-kAi~ OLil/A: I ~.?ish ~?eu lc,~s of iuek. MS_ KOWALSKi: Two weeks before they make 22 s decision on it. Thank ............................. 23 CHAIRWOFU-2.i OLI~}~- 1le}c~ hearing is Leona White on Harbc. r Lane ce add a one sc.or~ ~orch, 24 adting 140 square feeC over the code limitation cf 20 percenc fc.r a cc. col of 21 percenE. 25 NS. BISHOP: That's correcC. Scasy Bishs, p frcm FutL~re Surroundings representing che May 20, 2004 36 1 2 interests of Hrs. White_ We do propose a ne?~ construction of e two bedroom one storz; ~c. me with 3 ~n attached Ewe car garage wP~ich Goes conform tc all codes offsets, setbacks and lee co~,erage. % ii, ere are DOM permits in place. Hrs. ~',~hi~e would like to iz~cerporate into her ~uilding project an 5 eight loom porch overhang off the fron~, i~ ~.;oul~ he eighE feen out anO 37 feeE ~cross Eno front 6 elevation. This proposed porch does conform all codes an{ dens not impede upon offseus and ~ setbacks, however it does ~ring ~he alloEnei lo~ cooperage trom the maximum 20 percent allowed up $ aF~proximately 21 percent. The porch will net imDete upon the c½aracter of the neighborhood, 9 will add aesthetic value Eo the hot, se ann there is no oE~er proposed decking out the rear er side 10 rares of ~his home. So she's asking for a factorable incision Sy the Board no allow this 11 porch ne be incorporated into the building u. rzj eom. 12 ,2 HA I P_WOMi~/'~ OLIVA: VincenL ? BOARD MEHBER ORL!~i. IDO: ,One quick 13 clarificR~ion, Leona Nhi~e, is she the daughter of [.ir. Nhite living next door? 14 MS. BISHOP: Act~ally, tNey are one anO the same. The~ nave nl~e adjeini~g lot, it was 1S merged, ureter 12b they gee the waiver cf merger. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: So her parents live 16 r_exE ~oor? MS. BISHOP: No, they li-;e next deer. 1~ That house is en the market and ntis ~s the ~rspesed nome is what they intend ne live in. 18 BOARD HE~.[BER ,i,RLi-I{DO: I was jus~ trying nc recall when we gave the wai_eF of merger on 19 Ei~aU one, the) did fellow nhrough ,ith nhe plan, they were planning on bull{lng in and nhen she 20 did. Hd. BISHOP: Yes, she is. She's planning 21 cn Suilding this home. That home is en the market, it's for sale bi- owner uz~tii ~.~,e gee this 22 s{uarei away and gee a lintle fu~-t}ler along. ~©n'~ know if they nave any intez~tions ef listing 23 with an agent aU that point BOARD HEI'.[BER ORLi~X'~D,D: No other 24 q~es tions. CP[AI RWONIAN OLIVA: Lydia? 25 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: No questions. CH_a I RW O~,~R2.~ OLII~A: Jim? 20, 2 C, C,t 3? 1 2 BO.2=h°.D ME[{BER DII[IZIC,: No quesEisns_ ~hI\,-~: I dcn' ~ have an~' CHAI RNOI,L~2~ n 3 qnesEions either. .'n~,,Sc. dy in the audience like ~o speak for or agains~ Phis application? If not, % I'll make a motion closing the hearing ~r~d reserving the decision until later_ 5 ~See minuEes for resoiu~ien.., ':iA brief reces~ was ~aken. i ~ - .............................. CHAIRNOH}lq OLIVA: Ok[r nex~ hearin~ is for , ~-_.~ Yesey and ~h~r2.1 Schli~ en Dogwood Lane, the,:~ ~ish ~o make some additions te their house_ 8 ~Is. SEeelman? MS. STEEL[~tnI,I: Nancy Steeiman, Samuels a~ld i'd like Lo give you a li~tie history. Ne 10 s~ar~ed on ~his project abou~ a i~ear ani a half ago. [45- clients eriginalil~ approached me aboun 11 adding a ~wo car garage in ~he rear of Eheir Froperti,- with a driveway along the east properS%- 12 line going back_ The~. have about 14 and a half feen from ~he edge ef mheir exis~zng garage be the 13 properny line_ {,ge felt that was very narrow bo spproach iE ~ha~ way. So we wen~ ~hrough various 14 options possibiy locating a second floor addiEion ant differen~ ~hings. 15 NhaL we came to was E. he plan ~haL yen ~'urrerztip ha~e, we have Eaken o-~er a pcrnion of 16 the existing garage for a new dining rcom, a.ided a portion ~o ~he existing garage ~.o maintain a ~wo 17 car garage, and have added a li~.ing room in ~he rear cf ~he property, felt ~his ~?as a mere iS sensitive approach te the whole projecE. Once we decided on a concept, we ~hen searted looking a 1~ lizzie closer ~e the siEe plan and realized we :..ere approximately 300 square feet over ~he 2,0 2,2,000, which then bumped us into more restrict_ire so,backs. Ne were required to have a 15 and 20 21 with a Eo5al of 35 feel total. Based o~; our uniersEaniing of 5he code, there wasn't any5hing 22 Ehat said 5ha5 Phase setbacks had Eo be applied one ,,a,'. ~ er ~he other. So, we applied ~he 15 feet 23 Ec the ease property line, and locaLed cn~r aidiEisn ac.cerdil~gly. We ,,~an~ed ~he dining rccrn 2% ant living room ~o %,~ork o%~t with the garage ~.iiition. We Ehen did a series of workLng 25 drawings, didn'E Ehink there was any problem with uhaE approach and got a notice of disappro~ai from Ivies- 20 , 2,2, 0 i 2 the iSuiidlng DeFartment stating that the':' wantei us to put the 20 feen setback on the west propert5~ 3 line -- i'm sorry ehe 15 on the west propert5- line and ~he 20 on the east property line_ So ~hat was 4 a iit~le surprise to us. We didn'n realize ~ha~ ~his was something than the Building Department 5 had been requiring and their rationale, as ~ haye s~oken ~o them several times, is than because the 6 existing foonprinn has ,on the west proFerty line, has 10 fe~;n, that we needed no use the smaller cf nhose setbacks on that side_ ,C~AIP. WOH~i,I OLI, _-'~: Rigl~t. 8 [,IS_ ST~EL~.Z~M: We're wondering why that is stated that ~a-/_ In nhe zoning code, nhere's 9 nonhing than states how those should be applied to an e:,'_isting property. We r=vzewed the ,Waltz 10 interpretation, there's nothin9 in there peinn, we acknowledged that we needed Es use ~hcse 11 setbacks on these non-conforming builtings anS io~s, but nothing in terms ef how they would be 12 ac~u~[il3 applied ne a piece of property. Sc, we are in the process now of actually ioeking foF a 13 ariance for that location ef than dining room, I'm ssrrl,-, the living room on t[lat side, buz an 14 the same time and/or an innerpretazion uf hot.., nhese senbecks should be applied tea 15 non.uonformin9 lo~ with e non conforming buildLng. CNAIRWOMAN C, LIVA: You're asking us nc, 16 make an innerpret~tion of why they said Lhan the 1:3 foot had to be the smallest and - 1~ IdS _ STEEL[~Zm2Y: Cc. rr~ . ,2RAIRNOI~N OLIVA: - and the !~ . 6, wi~ich 18 is a]mosn 15, which wonld be a total of 25 feet whic}l is required, right? 19 [,IS. STEELH~2{: We need a total s~ 35 but shay are utilizing the 10 foot cn the one side of 20 the existing house_ Our understanding was that these senbacks dimensions ~;ere independent of 21 existing strucnure. C~AIP. WC, HA!'~ OLIVA: It doesn't shana in the 22 ns. rice of disapproval that fou're asking for an interpretation_ 23 i,IS_ KC, WALSKI: It dcesn't have ~o say it in the no,ice. 2% F~S. STEELHAN: In our cover of the Zooming ~oard we did request that. it is affecting this 25 particular application, tr, u~ it affects many sigher ~roj~cts that we're involyed in, aiud we're looking 39 1 2 fcr some -- C HA I RWOi','i2~/,~ OLIVA: ~u.d~n,_~. 3 T.IS. STEELM}2~: In our eves we have me~ ~He cede, and we are not increasing ~he 4 ncnco~formance; we are mainEaining 1S fee~. ~'e are raspecting the setback aE 15 fee~ and uhe S Building Department nas de,ermined that we need bo switch ~hose _ 6 BOARD MEMBER TORTOP2~: Can I ask a quesEion? Nancy, you're 14 67 7 NS. STEELHAN: Yes, existing. BO}~D I,'[E[',[BER TORTOPJ,: Yes, hhe exisEing 8 is 14.6, ~he ne~ living room addition, is uhat an zhe ~l,~=~h when it at~acNes ~c, ~he house, n~a~ 9 wok~ld still, he 14.6, or are you actually - HS. STEELPLR2[: Fhe property line angles 10 ever, so we're at 16.6, we jog oyer two fee~ righE aE nhe existing garaga, then we go out, iu's Ehat 11 far oorner that's au 15, that's the worst ,sase suenario e~ 15. 12 BOARD HE~,{BER TORTONIS: AE ~he worst cese scenario leL's assume for argumenE's sake Nhat Ehe 13 Board agreed wiEh you ~haE Ehere's ne de~erminetion in the code that says one side or 14 che onher may be the larger ef ~he two, in uhesry, -~cu ,..,~ule still need a six inch varia~lee for an 19 undetermiF~ed poruien ef the living room ~idiuic. n o.r is i~ because -- 16 ~,2,ARD MEMBER DINiZIC,: No, it's no~ 17 CHAINWOM227 OLIVA: You're ever 20, 000 so %hey Neet ' = 18 BOAP_D MEHBER E, INIZIO: I~'s ~lOE 'on ~ha~ line aE 1S feen. 19 BOARD HENBER TORTORA: That's my ques~ic, n, ne pare of Ehe new addition ,.~euid he 20 less uhan 1S feet? MS. STEELNLZ2I: [.le, net at all, we ~ade 21 sure, ~nd there's a noee there, even fcr eno con~racEor to verify EhaE location_ 22 MS. KONALS}iI: I think the reason thaE maybe Lhe Building DepartmenU did U[la~ is because 23 when iokl add ~he 15 feet proposed and on ~he .oppcsite side iE's 5'3" is dE? I can'E read de. 24 lC fee~ c,n the opposi~e side? HS. ~IEELH~_N: On the existing building 2S aisc, correct. MS. KONALSKi: 10 and 15 is o~iy a Eoeai Mai.' 20, 2004 1 2 2~, and they're sayin~ you don't meet the 3S tstal. 3 PIS. STEEL~'~I~i,I: But I uhink the quesuion is !sos u_he iecatie~l of the existing b~ui]ding hare 4 an!~thin~ Ue do with applying ~hose nonconforming so,backs? 5 BOARD T~MBER DINIZIO: That's right_ MS. SFEEL~.~i~: They"re now saui~ie- if uhis 6 house was zero en Yhat side, wha~ would ~he seEba{;k be. Se I thir~k if I ha.~e 10 and then i ~here's 15, that's 2S. You're u~ilizin.~ the existing building as par~ of these sehbaeks and 2 ~ha~'s ~he question. BO.~_RD HENBER ORLLiID.D: Your addiEien is 9 anuached u.o ~he nonconforming building, if i~ ~,.ere ieEached from it, it would be oka,:. 10 B~RD ME?~IBER DINiZIO: May I ask a question? 11 CHAIRNOHAN C, LIVA: Sure. ~,D~A~.D HE~IBER DINIZIO: i~'s obvious ~ha~ 12 ..~e are making some assumptions here as te Ehe buildin~ inspector, and I haEe 13 ]%a~ e got to do this, he has ~o come in here and answer Lhose questions because ob¥iously when i 14 losked au i~ - and ENds is my applicauisn - I Ehsught ~haE you did ROE need a variance in anT- 1S way, and ~ha~ is ~he :.;a2 tha~ i would have written it, bh~n i also would probably n.ot~ have tried us 16 interpret why he made thee decision. I think ~hau uhat innerpretauion does need te be made, ani 17 don't Ehink Ehat is his purview, i .den'E E[-~in],: i-~e Nas ~he ri_qht Eo make that inuerpretatien. Sc. 18 wouli like u.o ask Ehe Chairman ~o have the building inspector come in ~he nexE Eime we meet, 19 I kncw it's going to hold you up and I'm sc. rrna, ant have the building inspector be preEared to 20 ~x.T. iain ~s us, ~s convince us theft this ~pslicanion needs ne be before us. 21 CN_~I RWC,M}~i~ OLiVA: Bi. ARD MEPIBER TORTOP~L: I actuali agree 22 with Jim, because I'm not going Eo se.send guess ??hat he's said_ Let's go back a osupie of 23 scenarios, if the lB fooe side, which zs ~he east side, Ehere is no increase in the degree of 24 z~cnconformi~y because you are cor~forming. HS_ STEEL~.T~2~: Correct. I'm meeting the ~° ~ so,backs. CHAiRWOHAN OhlVA: I ra~}~er agree Nancy Ma_, ~ .', 2'1'04 41 1 2 co.2., because if you come straig~ back on the west siae and straight across, E~en i woul~ say yes. 3 But the ~av iE is here, your n~w deck is quite a ~:ays away from tRat west line, and with the 4 the east line, I would agree with ~he rest of the members I think the Building Inspector come in. 5 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: The ne~ .iec]£ is 20 feet and so is the new porch_ Se assuming Eha~ 6 the ease side is IS and the wes~ is 20, I'm kind cf baffled. 7 NS. STEELM~{: That's my understanding rcs. 8 ,2HAIRWO~i,~ OLII~A: We could try Eo postpone it until this afternoon to see if we 9 could gee the building inspector to come in. MS. STEELN[AN: I just spoke with Hike. 10 Ne could see if he's around. BOARD MEMBER ORL~{DO: The li,~ing room 11 adiitien, does EhaU have a full basement? MS. STEEL~J: No, crawl space. 12 BOARD MEMBER ORhANDO: The new addition is one and-a-~alf stories Ee match? AB PIS. STEEL}.~2{: It's one story_ BOARD HEHBER C, RL}2[DO: Your plans say one 14 and a-half story frame house_ MS. STEELNiAN: T~e exisEing one 15 an~ a-half, ~uz the addition is one story_ CHAIRWOMAiq OLIZ~L2~: Beautifully lanOscaped_ 16 2ould we recess it for you for five minutes? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Hold on_ You know 17 Ehere's a person Rere that ~isapproyed this, it's r:aemen Rsliins, it's noU the building 18 inspector. Iu's permit examiner and he is the person Oha: wrote zhis, he's the person that_ made 19 Ends decision an~ Mike is only going to, suppose wha~ this gentleman had in his mind when he ~id 20 in. T~is is the man we need to speak ~onesEiy_ I ~now Mike's here, hut honestly 21 [,IS_ STEEL~,L~2T: I just want to ~ell Sou one sEher thing tha~ happened in this, once I got this 22 ieterminaEion, I immediately p~ a phone call into Ute town attorney for his interpretation 23 iniEialls, and I onl=~ had a draft notice of disapproval, so ± didn'U want to pic~ iE up to 24 make i~ accep~ab£e_ Hike met wi~h the Eswn attorney and myself in Eha~ meeting, sc. Hike is 2S .er5, familiar %,iEh BOARD MEMBER DINIZiO: ~ut he's not the 20, 1 2 signer sf this. HS. STEEL?.'I}~I: BUt he didn't write i~, B,2,I~i~I} HEMBER DINIZIO: I think all we're 4 going to hear from Hike is this gu5 made a decision. So I don't think ERat's fair to any of b ~s. So if Daemon's here. MS. STEELI~L~2[: You waiiE me he check? I'll 6 te bac~ in a minute. BOARD HE±~BER TORTO?ie: Call for a recess. 7 I'll make a meuien Eo recess the nearing fcr fi-~e mLnutes. 8 ,See minutes for resolution. ~ 9 CHAIRNOPiA2I OLIVA: Next one is Marlo Rivelli on Hobar~ 10 P,IR. RiVELLI: Yes, good morning.. I made a little model here, ± don't know maybe I sheuid 11 _ea.~e it up here. Basically r. he corner in question is this one. EssenEialll; I gnu 12 permission to ~o a renovation, and I'm beet s~.'ner ani the architect, then because i didn'~ 13 meet uhe requiremenEs, the 10 f.soE side i?ard setback and an existing condir, ion I propose nou 14 2o through ~he hearing process 50 pull i5 back. Sc essentially I will lease 5he existing roof lh line, come back ~li~%e inches, and being an archi~ec5 and an owner, I'm ver7 se~siti~-e ~o 1¥ ~hese ~hings. I ~c. ld my wife, you know what, c[sn't we Ea~-e some Lime and go nc EAu i%earing. 17 ~-.~1 we reallI- are asking aL iE.s closesE te the ~r.opertv line i{'s 9'3" basicail-?_ it's n~ne 18 znches, then it tapers up ~o no,ting as i~ goes ahcun 10 feet back. i9 CHAiKWOHAN OLIVe: You have a narrow ui~ere ucc,. 20 HR. RIVELLI: Basically it's a little less than four square feet because the house is no~ 21 e~ en set parallel. HS_ Pi,3,WA~SKI: Four square feet? 22 HR. RIVELLI: Yes. So I just s~id let me presenU i~ Eo 5ou. That's all I need to sol. 23 CHAIRWOMAN C,L E%L%: Vincent? BOARD NIEMB~R ORLANDO: i have no 24 ~nesti©ns. You have an irregular shape, maybe ~wo percent of the side yards need a variance. 2~ CMA IRWOH2-/~ OL I%%~: Lydia? BOARD ME?,IBER TOR'FOPS_: This is extremel/ I,Iay 20, 26,04 1 2 mi~-~imum. I f~ave no objections. CMAI RWO±vLzd[ OLIVA: Jim? 3 BOARD ME~,'IBER DINIZIO: I have no cbj ecEions . 4 BOAPiD HEI,[BEP. ORLsl,IDO: Our other ~uestion is, can we hold she model? 5 CHAIRWOM~:i[ OLIVA: Does anyOody in Elle a~.~dience have an2 quesnions or remarks abou~ this ,S applicanion? if nee I'll ~nake a mo~ion ~o close ~he hearing and reser,e decision until later. - iSee minu~es for resoiuticn. ~ CHAIRWOH}i,? OLIVfa: Thank yo~ ver/ much for 8 gaming in and good luck with your house. 9 ,gPL'~.IRwOHi~{ OLIVA: Nancp? MS. STEELHAN: Daemon was at lunch, they 10 s~aid he should be back arount noon_ BOARD HENBER TORTORA: We could recess 11 Eo qh~arEer of 1:00. NS. KOWALSKI: Do it at 1:00 12 BOARD HEMBER TORTOP~Z~: I don't ?;ant tc back up this af~erneen's hearings. 13 CHAIRNO~,Lzi~ OLIVA: Recess iE to 12:%h. HS. STEELHAN: I'll lee his office kno~,,~. 14 CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Motion made to'. recess 1E to 12:%5. lb ~See minutes for resolution., 16 ,gHA_IRWOI,[~N 0LiVA: Mr_ Patterson ever on fishers Island. ,S.s. ahead_ 17 MR. HAHH: Steven ~tamm, 38 Nugent Street, Southampton for the applicants. I have the 18 -2ffida?it ef posting and just a brief written 1~ T_le Pa~tersons would like to ref~rbish an e~,:isting accessory building. No'ye given you 20 plans of whaE uhey propose ~o to. [,'[e' 11 be i~ the some fo{}nprint, however, Oecause ehe roof line is 21 only abc. uu four or fi?e feet in the rear porEien, %he ree~ line will be raised te an{ some exte~t 22 and ~llerefore unOer your Walz Oecision, r. lle Bniliing Department rejecEed the applicau, ion 23 i~ecause while we're not increasing the t~,e dimensions ef lengun an~ width, Ehe height is 24 increasA~g, eno1, therefore, I guess the volume of ~he structure. They would ha'~e the right Eo 2~ rebuild iR its precise location, but because sf Ehe heighu increase to make uno bui£ding more 1 2 useful f©r Ehem for a garage and a playhouse, we require a variance. 3 My wriEEen memorandum sets forth Ehe arguments under she town law why we believe Ehis 4 should be granted. I've spoken with ~he architect and ~ope that I can answer questions that }'ou may 5 he,-e, if an~~, concerning the proposed csnstruction, if not, I can bring nlm hack nexE 6 month. CHAIRWOHAi~ OL±VA: How much higher are 7 Ekey going to go? NIR_ H~tlM: The one foot eight and-a half 8 inches ~he ridge will be, and in ~he rear por~io~ i~'s three or four feet but Ehe actual height of 9 ~he structure iEself is being increased one feet eight and-a-half inches. 10 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Nr_ Hamm, ma~be I'm missing something here, you were nde disappre-ed 11 on t~e heighE of Ehe building unless I'm missing ssmathing here, you were disapproved because of 12 the location_ So iu says the iocatien is in the side 5ar~. 13 }4R. HAMM: That's correct. Iu's a side 5ard location, and, therefore, un,er Ehe Walz 14 ~ecisien because -- the reason why we were denied is }es, the location, but had we not been 15 increasing ~he height, we would be enti~le~ under Section 1,90-242 ~e rebuild it in its precise 16 dimensional space_ BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Your permi~ is Ee 1l csns~ruct; is that correct? Your notice of !isappro~al says ~o construcE an accessory 18 building, is Ehat incorrect? }IR. H}PI~: Well, we're recons~rucEing, 19 we're re{urbishing. We're not going te tear i~ down. It's going to be rebuilt in place so we 20 isn't lose more than bO percenE ef it. We're ~ropesin~ te renovate a building which is 21 cerrentl,~ in ~he side yard location. i~C.ARD MEMBER TORTORA: So you're ROt 22 proposing to construct? ~,[R. H}I,[H: To reconstruct. Exceph fcr t:he 23 increase in heighE, we would be wihhin hhe zcning code provision 100 242 which allo~',s a 24 non-conforming building *ith a conforming use to he enlarged, reconstructed, it goes through a 2~ ~vhsle litany of ~ypes of actions which are permitted. I would sar wha~ we're doing is within May 20, 200% 1 2 et-~a~ seceieli, but for the fact that heighu is being increased, so height ~s really the issue r~et 3 ss much -- well, side yard ioca~ion is cbziously % MS. KO.~AI~St{I: if i~ doesn't say i~ on the iisappr.zvai. S CHAiRWOI'~t~_N OLIVA: it doesn't say it ,on ~he disapproval. Your side yard is pre-existing, 6 all yen' re doing is going up i~l height. BOARD IvlEMBER DiNIZiO: Can I say - someEhing? HR. HAHH: Maybe I ca~ have Daemon back 8 in here. ~OARD HENBENi DINiZIO: We ma:~ nee,d Daelnon ~ again. Nhen I read this a~ first, ~':- assumption he denied you because yeti're a waterfron~ H3t[H = We 11 no 10 HR. - , , I think whaE he's sei.,ing and ~he way I read his disapproval is 11 number 1, accessory buildings are required Eo be ir~ the rear yard, we're not ~ha~. 'Two, you 12 have an exception in certain cases when you're wauerfrcnE, w~icN ~?e are, however we don'~ meet 13 ~ha~ either. I ~hink he's saying ~eu dcn'E mee~ eiuher of the ~wo standards hy which you're 1% enuitled to have an accessc, ry building. BOARD ME[~IBER DiNIZIO: But my iS u~-~ierstanding is here, you keep referring ~o this ['lalz thisbe, sc. I"n~ assuming tha~ au some pc. iRt in 16 ~ime you had a discussion wi~h Daemon ~hat said Nalz is ~elling me to do this. 17 HR. H!~P[H: I had proposed chis floor plan ~c Daemor~ well before Oliver Cope the archiLe.2t 18 a~lied for ~he building permit. He thz~ghu it was okay. ~e lazar called me [>s sa,/ cops, s.r. rry, 1P ~n.der Nalz i have ~o leny you beeause ~...su have a siie yard location which is nora-conforming, t&nder 2,1, Walz 5out're increasing ~he degree of ner7-cs, nformiEy b':~ violating the existing ~hree 21 dimensional space. BOARD ME[,{BER DINiZIO: ~ut he ~cesn'~ ciEe 22 nlTat in his disapproval. NS. KONALSKi: He's sal-ing tile entire 23 ac{;essory builting is in a non conforming icsa~ion, all zhe construction, noz juse ehe 24 he igh~. BOARD I~IE[,IBER DINIZiO: But Ne doesn'E 2S Ei-~ae here eiEher. MS K~[~.h~t._I: He does on Et~e f~rst Play 2,2, 200~ 46 1 2 sentence, permit to ccnsUruct nonhabiEable ~_~.~.~ ..... ~-ry~ building. The whole building is denied_ 3 I.[R. HAHM: The argument is geing ~o he ~he same. We have an existing building whicll we 4 would be ennitled ~o reconsnruc~ es a matter of right in its existing ~hree dimensienal space. 5 ~owever you would like ~o phrase it or if you wcnld like me to gee a revised ns~ice ef 6 .iis~pFroval nhese are maybe distinctions wi~hc, uta difference as far as I can see, will ~his affec~ ~ the neighborhood, the argumenus are going ~o be tt~e same, we're going uo raise the zoof a ii~uie, 8 The i~madiate neighbor attached to my memo~andum is a lecher from Alfred FeFguson, who is the 9 neighbo~ mos~ impacted, he approves ~he projecE. in fact, if we meved iE back farther hack on the 10 lo~ i~ would be a worse impact on him. CH~iRW,OP.L~N OLiVA: Mr. Harem, wha~ is ~here 11 now, ms i~ a garage? [,iR. HA[,~H: It's a garage she.i."s~orage 12 building, which pre-e>~isEs zoning, lE's height in the rear is onif abou~ feur or five feet. The 13 foo~prin~ is the 491 square feeE reughly 20 by 14 CHAIRWC,N~ OLIVA: You're nee enlarging ~han? 15 hR_ H32.IH: Nee enlarging the foo~prinu, mhe feonprinn will be exactly es it now is. The 16 2. niy reason we need a yariance is because s,f he i ght ~H~IRN,~M}2[ OLiVA: But it's not in the notice of .tisapproval. The notice of disapproval 18 sa~s iE's because i~'s in the side yard. BOARD NEMBER 7'ORTORA: Do you h~ve a CO 19 .Em this building? MR. ~'~IM: "~z=:s. I ,%on't have it wili~ me, 20 I submit~ed it when we had an application for an office, you maI reme~ber from ~hree ~ears ago, bu~ 21 yes, I can gen ~han for yeu, if ~fc, u nee8 it ~heir pre CC, covered a house and ~he garage and 22 there have been subsequen~ building pertains fcr rene. vaEion for the house i~self. EveryEhin~ is 23 legal here. CHAIRWONAN OLi~C~: i would suggest ~na~?be 24 tha~ when Hr. Rollins comes ~n a~ quar~e~ tc !:00 we ask him abeut this one ~oo. I den'~ 25 nntersEand. BOARD MEHBER TC, RTOP2~: Let' s ge~ Mai- 2.',, 2004 47 1 2 things on ~he record. Does the height ,of ute buiiiing exceed the 18 foot? B.D~2~.D H~,MBER DINiZIO: Nalz doesn't say 4 Eha~. Okay. Nalz says if it's nonconforming, you can'~ i~crease it. I understand the reascning, 5 i3u~ it's non here mn ~he disapprevai. Nalz says if you ha~.e three feet and ':'ou went Es go fc~r, ~ you ,can't if i~'s a nonconforming location, and this b~_nkl,ti~g is in a nonconforming location. x sa~s ~:st.t cai~'t increase it, that's what ~'~a!z says. But it's not in this disapproval in an5' way_ Ail 8 P~e ienied you for is because you're -- ac~ually he's stating the obvious. ~ MR. Hz~i,INI: I rely on ~le Building 3eper~men~ to iNterpre~ wha~ we need, and I will 10 as]~ for an amended notice ef disapproval if that's scma~hing ~ha~ would be helpful. 11 B~._~_hD MEMBER DINIZIO: I think he needs ~c. --, ..... the qL~es~ion. 12 HR. HAHN: You're quite right, i did have a conversation with him prier ~c ~he ap~ii.2aticn 13 fcr ~he building permm~ being made and he ani I iiscussed it when he's called to say, sops, i'm 14 ssrrs, nnder Walz I am going ~o haye ~o deny. i:'s clearlI by reason of Nalz Eha:'s iu's being 15 ,ienied CN_~.IRWOPtA2,I OLIVA: Mr. Harem, are you going 16 ~o came back quarter ~o 1:00, he has ~o some back_ I .ien'~ ],~new abouu ~he resu of you, i'd 1 like ~o ask Daemon his reasoning for ~his. MS. KONALSKI: Mr. Harem, are ~cu adiing 18 and renovating ~e the existing building? MR. HAH[.I: No. Ne're raising ~he rocf. 19 ,?/e are adding volume if you lIS. KC, N_~LsKI: And you' re altering the 20 existing building for ~he roof line, so cn firsn line ef the disappro,,~al i~ says permi~ 21 coiistrnsE i~ should say there al~era~ions for raised rocf rather than consnruc~ing a w~ole new 22 b~il ting. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO Yes, but thau's the 23 building inspector again. [.IS. KOWALSKI: P. ight 2% BOARD ~.IEMSER DINiZIO ~'N~anever his spplicazion is is whaz iE is. 25 MS. KOWALSKI: [e's the first line on thaz nozice ef disapproval f,Iay 20, 20,],4 ~8 1 2 MR_ HizPIM: There is a clearly a pre ,20 fcr this building and it's clear in mi' mind that 3 the reason for the denial was walz, nde boca%isa we are planning te put a i~ew building in here. As I 4 sai?, un,er 100-242 we would be entitled to this except for mhe roof, except for the heighe. S MS_ KOWALSKI: He doesn't mention anp-t~ing en ~ha~. 6 ~iP.. H.~pp[: IU's based on ~he same plans ~.hat you're leering at. i guess I should real 7 ~hosa a little more carefully maybe_ I mean, I have sent things back ~o him before when i~ was 8 ~he wrong section, but I assume that's the way ~ hey - 9 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Weul,~ the Beard agree to recess this ~ln~il 10 minu~es b? 1:06,? 10 B,0~RD MEMBER DiNIZIC,: I'd like to get to ±~E YS Pi~-N ~sday. 1! P,~R. HA~d['~I: Z. nd I have tb_ings in SouuRampton but I will sma}. 12 BOA_RD MEMBER DINIZIO: Do you wane ts wait until ~he next meeting, I can't let it ~o. 13 P{R. H2~'~IM: I appreciate your positi.sn. I can't sa'_,' I ~isagree with }'dU. I jusm assume 14 Lllat's how the-..' would write something like tNis up based en the plans. lb C~.IRWC,[d_~2,~ OLiVA: No, Ehis is wrung. }dS_ KOWALSKI: Would ~,eu want t.s adjcurn 16 ~t ta ~nother date, Mr. Mama? f,[R. MAMH: I'd rather have it c~osei. 1 17 guess, I'll come Sack at quarter to 1:00. HS. KOWALSKI: Aijourn it te 12:S0. 18 P,IR. HAI~iM: Will do. Thank you. ,2NL~.IRWC,k,'Ii-2,I OLIVA: Hake a motion tha~ we 19 recess this hearing until 12:5,3. ~See minutes for resolunion., CNAIRWO[ql=2{ OLIi/A: Next She is the Laurel 21 Links Countr:, Club for a heighu variance for the fence mround the uennis co~rn? 22 ['.IR. PAPP: Goecl morning. Joseph Papp for Laurel Links Coa~ntr/ Club. 23 As part of our apprcved project we 2onstruceed two Hard True u. ennis courr, s and put 2{ fencing thee is normal height for tennis courts measuring 9'8" arount tlle court black, ~,inyl 2~ 2o~Eed, hear!? tu~y fence. We ha~e also arcuni two sides dor~e reLaining wall work to make i~ more 20, 2004 2 attractive and started landscapi~ig and plante,~ many new cedars. The fence is normal height for a 3 tennis court. I've measured cEhers in town, Il,etch Fork Country Club~ Hanninuck High School. 1 4 understand ~here is a six foo~ fence ortinance i£~ town, but I believe for a ~ennis court six foot is 5 net high enough for safety reasons and To be adequete ~o contain tennis Palls of ~l~a people 6 playing tennis. So I'm respectfuil? asking for a variance ~o accept the 9'8" ~eight of o-.~r fencing 7 arsun~ ~he tennis courts. CHAIR~'~Ok~2~ OLIVA: T~ha~iE you_ gimp 8 BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: ldo, leu're right. i mean, jeu hi~ a tennis hall and if iE gees over 9 ~he fence !~on try ~o con~ain it_ i ha,-e no objection to Enis whatsoever. I know that it said 10 ~a~ at some point in t~me en ehe plan iE was six feet when you applied for it_ 11 ~4R. PAPP: The retaining wail we did, cnn point i~ looked li~_e the fence might go on ~ep 12 cf the retaining wall, i~ which case the fence itself ~ight have been less ~han six feet, i think 13 That's where Tha~ confusion came, buy }oecause Nampnc, n Te~nis did our i~sEailation, and they did l& irainage outside tile fence, and we couldn'~ ge~ t[~e wall close enougb~ te pu~ the fence en ~op of 15 that, there had to be an area for drainage. A~ld tl~erefore, the fence itself wllere the retaining 16 wall is, is less than six feet above Elle wall, but it's ~ot conYiguo~s ~o the wall, se we hod no put ~7 in a normal fence. I think that's w~ere the confusion ¢;ame. A~ one point we ~hough~ the 18 retaining wall was going ~o go arounO ~ne court more and ma ~be the fence on top of it, but when we 19 came Ed ~he actual construction plans we couldn'~ ds U. hat _ 2,} BOARD [,I~MBER DINIZIO: Place looks great. CHAI RWOHA~ OLIVA: Lydia? 21 BOARD MEMBER TORTOP~A_: I have no c~jecTien, it's required for ~ennis courts, 22 kind of height. ,2HA I RWOH.~i~ OL IVA: Vincent? 23 BOARD MEMBER ORLA['[DO: No questions. Se~eral comments. I visited tP~e site as everyone 24 else, and l'ou Can't see it from the road and e~en tri~.ing up The screening on ~ha~ side you can't 2b el-an see i~ until you almost get in frcn~ of it. I see no reason to deny_ Ne5~ 20, 2,}04 5O 1 2 MR_ PAPP: No're going to do eT'on more landscaping_ 3 BOARD MEN~BEt~ ORL~2,IDO: No other ~lnes~ions. 4 CE~.IRWOM~ OLIi~!~: I ha?e ne furEher questions. I don't think aNybcdy ir~ the audience, 5 i don'E see anybody to objecu ~o ~his or somments. Se I will make a motion bo close uhe beefing and 6 reserve Oecisien until laEer. ~== minuEes for resoluuion_ 7 BOARD MEMBER ORlaNDO: Hake a mo~ioN end session and te adjourn ~e 12:45. 8 ,:See minutes for resolution. ,2HAIRWO~tLI~ OLiVA: I.,~e're back uo Vese-. 9 Schlit~ on Dogwood I~ane, and we'd like ~e ha~e ssma clarifLcauion ~rc.m uhe Building Depsr~menu on 10 Ehe ncEice of disapproval because from w~ls~ ,~e ,Ten de,ermine ~he~ Ehe way it looks to us en ~he si~e !1 plan is uh~u Ehe,=~ ~eeE, if Tou look at the New eidi~icn which is reallu 15 foo~ back Hi, 12 Daemon. MR. R~,LLINs: Daemon P. ollins, Permi~ 13 Examiner. ,S~IRNOH~i{ ~LI~-~_ The ~..~¥ we s~s i~, ~he 14 new addiEion is about 15 feeu back from the ease side, and if you look au ~he new deck iu's well, 15 at lease 20 feet, which m~kes 35 fee~. I.IP_ ROLLINS: ThaE's correct.. The issue 16 was -- and I don't have i~ in front ef me -- you have a cspy of nhe survey? ThaNks. 17 You see, when ~he house was ori~inail~= coRstrucEed, we had a different set of seEbacks, 18 fsr side yards. I~ wss a single side ?ard of 10 and a ~c.~al of 2S. Our feeling was becmese Ehey 19 hai maxed eu~ ~he~ original, whe~l they builE the original hause ~hey chose 10 on one side, 20 an 20 ~he other, by choosing that 10 ~hat made i~ the smaLies~ yard. Now uhat the setbacks had chan~et 21 ~o i5 and I believe iE ~.~a= .2HAI RNOMAH OLIVA: Correu~. To~al. za [.iR. RJLLINs: now ~he-/' re as}Tln~ for essentially 5wo single side yards_ Now lhe~' he.~e 23 15 here and Ehey're creating a nonconfermiEv cn the oEher side; do ~ou see whaE I mean? 2% BOARD MEMBER ORL}2[DO: The 10 uas noncenfcrmi~y? 2b HR. RC, LLINS: The l0 wes conforming until we changed side lard se5back rule. AimssE as May 20 , 2'-,'''a 51 1 2 if, if you think about choosing a rear yard when ~ou have a corner lot, you pun a garage in a 3 certain area, it now becomes ute rear yard because iE has an accessory there. It's almost like % yoke're coming back later and sal-ing, well, i want LD put a pool in the ether area. Well, 2~ou ,can't 5 because Ehat was chosen to be Ehe si.ia yard, sort of the same situaLien here. 6 BOARD HEHBER TORTC, RA: Let's back up a iiL~le bin. When the house was consur~cted, Ute 7 10 feet on nhe wesu property line was a cenfcrming side yard; correct? 8 HR. ROLLIIIS: Correct. B~:-~RD IqEI,IBER TJRIC. PJ~: Then ~he 10 wen~ to 9 a 157 HR_ ROLLINS: That is .correct. 10 BOARD HEHBER TORTOPJa: Se you' re saying that because 10 worst to 15 en fha5 side that ute 11 iS New has Eo stay on that side? HR. ROLLINS: That conEinues ~o be 12 smallest side yard and therefore, the ether site would have to mainuain 20 feeu_ 13 BOARD MEHBER ORLi~CIDO: ?he living room and ~he deck on the o~her side, the ~0 and 15 ~.sul,~ be 14 okay you' re saying? MR_ ROLLINS: ~ ~ ~u±~. In other wot{s, if 15 leu look at their survey I contend that ~heir building enveiepe is incorrect Where i5 says 20 16 side yard setback, that should say 15, the other side should say 20. 17 BOARD I,'IEP[BER DINIZIO: Treat would create mcre c.f a nonconformiEy than ~'ou have wilt it 5he 18 wa~ i5's situated now. I,IR_ RC, LLiNS: Yes, that's correct. That 19 is true. BOARD N'I~MBER DINIZIO: The house shcuid be 20 at least nonconforming. MK. ROLLINS: I ~gree but that's up 5o 21 guys uo decide, but the bottom line is I have to follow ute correct building envelope and this 22 ]2uilding is incorrect, and ~herefore, it needs a ~ ariance. 23 BOARD HENIBER DINIZIO: I guess ~hat's your interpretaEion. 24 MR_ ROLLINS: Of course. BC.ARD MEMBER DINIZIO: ~o me a house 25 should be at least nonconforming as it possibi~: .can he, and with the seEbacks and Ehe en--eiepe May 2,2,, 20~,4 52 1 2 that's here it is tile least nonconforming. MR PuLLINS: ThaY's correct. But they' re ~ scrL of picking and chooszng which side is what. BOARD MEMBER DiNIZIC,: No. The: 're 4 saying, and i think correctly so, that the 15 foot is iS feet, and it's not picking and choosing, 5 in's actually their envelope and the house is as the envelope is trawn on this map, less ~ ncnoonforming- is ~ha~ the right: way? - ~han if they hai two nonconforming side var,is, which wouli 7 he in his interpreEation, he would have two ncnconforming side yards, now the,_,,' enif .have u. ne. 8 That's the way I see MR. VERITY: Llike Verity, Chief Building 9 ins~ec~sr, Town of Southold_ Jim, and you Ruth both looked aE this, 10 /su're familiar wi~h this_ B,S,L~D HEHBER DINIZIO: i didn't look aE 11 i~_ I think we had the discussion, i never really saw the map. 12 CHAiRNONIAN OLI~,IA_: Yes. [.TR. VEP_[TY: Oka}~. We had ~he map, I 13 apologize, I ~hought leu saw ~he map. BOARD NIEIV~B~R DINiZIO: i might have_ 1% [.IR. VERITY: Actually, the Building Department's -- for lack ef be~er words iS reqnesting that this is ~he side yard ef 26,, how ?.ould we be making that more nonconforming? 16 wsuld be pushing tha~ further fron-~ the ~roperEy line and causing that to be more conformin,?. 17 ~OARD M~HBER DINIZIO: i'm not saying ~hat, Nike_ I'm saying that the way the_,~ have it 18 drawn righ~ now, they have a single side yard noncc, s~forming setback. One side 5'ard that doesn't 19 conform. If you interpreted iE another ,~-5~ ~hey will have two s Ldo ,:ards that are nonconforming. 2,3 MR. VERITY: That are nonconforming? BOARD H~2HBER DINIZIC,: Right. 21 BOARD HEHBER DDRTORA: You' re in2iuding -- BOARD HEHBER DINIZIC,: Because there will 22 be 20 teen on this one side, there will be 2,5, feet, so shat will make [:he 14'6" side will be 23 5'4" 6" and the other side will be five fees because new it's 10 feet, i: will be fi-.re feet. 24 Sc we' li have ~.',,o and to my mind, and isoking ~h= co~e because that s ~;hau i looked a~ last 25 r_Lght EMere's r~othing in the code that =a ~= one way or the other you con interpreT. ~haE. What it May 2C,, 2004 53 1 2 does say is that the hot, se has to be the least nonconforming_ 3 MR ' gRITs: Nould a IS or 20 yard meet the least nonconforming? 4 BO_~RD MEMBER E, iNIZIC,: I believe the way Ehey have i~ drawn on the map is the wa,- thaE it S should be drawn on the map. My undersEaniing was this house was buil~, not before zoning, nothing 6 .,}=~s really changed on thaE, they theughE they il~d a smaller lo~ than ~hei~ acEuaii~' have. ~., [.IR. VERITY: Again, that's our feeling also ~'~e agree wi~h Eha~ and ~nfortunateiy, 8 ~al]c_ing jus~ a matter of two or 300 square fee~, ani somehcw, that either got lest or gainet o ~er 9 ~ima, and thaE no~., put them znEo, ,~es, a ~ifferent sshedule, which would be 15 ani 3S_ Bus 10 ~he Building Department's point, basically the 10 -~ard is your smallest ,~ard already. The oEher one 11 wek~li na,;e to be now the la~ger yard. Historically that'~ the wa5w~-'ve always done it, 12 mnd we've never been i dcn'E %,~anE Eo say shallengei on it - but challenged en 13 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Mike, I kind ef came ir~ Nils thing ~ew Eoda~:', hue I do ha?e enoL~gh 14 familiariuy with uhe code that Ehere is, to mn knswiedge, ~lothing in the code Shat dicEaEes which 15 yard muse be the sm~ller of the two ~'ards. merely Ealks abouE u~inimum on ,one side Knd total 16 bosh sides. NR. VERi~Y: That's .correct. 17 BOARD HEHBER TC,RTOP2~: I don't think ~his Bcard can even -- other than saying what I'~.e jusE 18 said, 5,ge ,sail' t ,create aR answer Ehere. That' s scmeEhing EhaE needs to be codified, if iE needs 19 ~s }De codified. However, let's go to she cther section of the code ~haE re~ninds us constantly to 20 aiw~ys look to the lease amount of crea~ing new r~onconfermity_ In this case I'm going ~o agree 21 witi~ ['.Ir. Diziizio for the reason thaE he's brought cuE: If we were to designate she ease side as 20 22 feet, Uken we would not onll~ be ~akir~g in the new aitition, b~t a porhion of ~he existing house as 23 ?,~eilk, and creasing r. haE enEire side would ketone ~%.2nssnfc, rmizcg because it's not 2,3. fees. NhaE 24 wc~ld we ha~..e gained by that? Nould we ha~e ~ai~ei a con, forming side on the west side? 25 Ne wouli still have part of the house, aE lease ~±.= feet of that house, the existing house, which M~y 2,2', 208& 54 1 2 wsuld be nonconforming. So in trying tc look aE the overview of this of which to choose, you sa,:. 3 io we chozse a plan ~hat is going to create one not, conforming yard, ehe total side yards aren't 4 going Eo change or do we accep~ a plan that is Dnly going to creaUe eno nonconforming side yard? 5 An.i Ehis is s~ricull m~.~ opinion because tRere is ne~zhing in the code that direcus either ~our 6 .tepart~en~ .or this Board_ That's wha~ I would look for in thee parU of ehe code that alwa-,-s , uelis us try te fiF~d the most nonconforming solution. That's m~,' opinion. 8 MR. VERITY: What about the combined ~ar.is ? 9 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: The combined yards, iE's nee going to matter whether we make the east 1,9 side or the wes~ side, the 24 or the 1S. MR. VERITY: Bk[t you' re ~letting closer on 11 %c ~ha~ number_ BOAP. D MEMBER TORTOPIe: The combined yard 12 number botal is going to be ~he same. The side vsrt to~al is still going to be the same. 13 [.IR. ifERITY: The poin~ I'm ~king, if you use 20 and 10, that's 30; if you use 10 and 15, 14 ~ha~'s 25, so you're making more of a nonconformity. lB BOARD M~MS~R TORTORA: I'm usin~ 2n and 15. i'm using 35, the requirement_ 16 MR_ VERITY: I'm doing combined. B,~.~RE NEMBER fORTORA: It's not geir~g Es. 17 mat~er if i~ou switch ~o ,one side or the o~her, the ~stal side yard required is 3S, ,correct, ~ha~'s 18 ir_? MR. VEP_ITY: But you have an existing yard 19 ~f 10, correct? BOARD HEHBER TORTC, RA: Yes. 20 [.IR. VERITY: ~md if ~.,~e choose ~he o~her side at 20, thet's putting our yards aE 3,2,. if 21 -:'a~ cheose tha~ at 15, that's putting y?ur ~ards at 2~. 22 Bi, AND MEMBER TORTORA: If ~eu che. ose the ease side as 20, /ou're going to take no~ cni~ the 23 existing house MR. VERITY: Nhich is already 24 nonconforming - EOARD NEHBER DII{iZiO: i to~'t get i~. 25 NR. VERITY: l&_~l is nonconforming. BOARD HEPIB~R TORTOP3: Talking about six Ma_, 20, 200a_ 55 1 2 inches. MR_ VERITY: Nonconforming, though, BOARD MEMBER DINIZIC,: Ne're talking abou~ 4 requiring a building permit_ i think thaE's what we're ~alking about. You're denying a building 5 permiu because, from what i ,san see, you're salting uhaE ~he2're going te increase Ehe nonconformity 6 in some way, and according bs wha~ ~hey have on Ehe maE,, they are not in,ending ~o increase Ehat :%snco~formity one iota_ They are building within Ehe allowed 15 foot limiu. There is no side yards 8 ecme inEo effect here aE all in anl, way. They're ne.t iz~creasing, they're no~ going inuo ~he c, nsnooriforming par~_ '?ney have adjusted ~heir hearse 5o meet the code, EhaE 1~ fee5 so,back. 10 Thel,-'re no~ changing Ehe setbacks in an~ way. HR. VERITY: JusE explain to me, Jim, I'm 11 not trying 5o be ignorant. Lydia said I co%~ldn'5 choese 5haE as 5he 20 because there's nsEhing in 12 ehe code, so how can I choose that as the 157 BOARD [~EHBER DINIZIO: 15 meets ~he sade. 13 iS is eno of Lhe sesbac]~_s required for this size £c, 5, and Eha~ mucus ~he co~e. They're no5 14 increasing anl,- nonconformit/ here in an-~ way_ The hcuse alread? exis5s. You can'~ deny them for the 15 10 feet because 5hey're ne5 doing anything. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: They're not exEending 16 she5 10 foe~. BOARD NIEHBER DINiZIC,: i,[i; opinien, ~hey 17 don't need a variance. Th~'s I guess the point tc me and Ehe reason is because ~hau 1_u fecE 1°~ setback is par~ of the requirement fer nhe size of r_he lan tP~at they P~aye here, and we're not cci_~%}~ 19 ~,T add anl; new nonconformity here. That's my zpinion, that's from looking au nhe code than sa-/s 20 Eha~. Net only can she reail,: naa pick and chaose, but neither can you. In onher words, you 21 R-~lo,.,, Ehe house has to be Ehe lease nonconforming. PhaE's what we're trying Eo ge~ down, I den'E }:now 22 if that's part of uhe code, buu iu's certainly part of our decision process. 23 HR_ VERITY: So nhe interpretation from the Bzliiding Deparemen~, the 2,3, feel would be more 24 nonconfcrming? I'd~a,~ ~he 20 fee~ wouit b_.e less ncnconforming nhan ~he lB feet. You're actually 25 creauing more of a nonconformiEy. BOARD ~'[ENBER DINIZIO: No, you're no~. I',[a':' 20 , 2,2,,,i, 4 56 1 2 MR. VERITY: You don't agree? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: It's nc.h conforming 3 at eno feet, and it's nez conforming ah 4,9 feet. it ~oesn't make a difference ho~,~ big it is, iu's 4 nonconforming. If !/oki then require them to m,o.~e their other side yar~, then you've got two ~= nenconferming setbacks. Now two so,backs_ What _'m saying is our code for Ekis size io~ previa-les 6 far a 15 foo~ setback, thsh ~he,:- have ~,s ha~-e. If they ,io~i'u, Ehen that's nenconfDrming. It ', ser~ainiy is. 14'6", that's a nonconforming seEback. They propose not ho encroach sn thee in ~ ~ny way. ~hey're not adding a nencanformit,: here_ TD_ey wanned 14'6", and /ou gc~ problems_ That's ~, how i see i~. And honestly, I looked in the code if I could find -- when i did that, i ~hought 10 there was something in the code, hue aE the beginning of our code it doesn't necessarily, 11 certainly deesn'E mention noncsnfermiEies, but ises say that ute least aiways prevails or the 12 mss~ restrictive alwa~:~s prevails and [,IR. i~ERI~f: So you're going against what 13 ~.eu're Eeliing me, Jim- BOARD ~E[,IBER DINiZiO: Ilo, i'm 1% ~ecause ~e're .or~ll~ going ~o h~.~e one nonconformik/ 15 [,iR. VERITY: Use that yard as the single · rard, dor~'~ put anything else in~o play, and 16 e>~piain Lo me whaE you jus~ again%. Yo,a said the least, righL? 17 BO3P_D I',~EHBER DINIZiO: TNat' s right, yes. HR. VERITY: If you wane he be at 15 feet. 18 Ne would like them ~o be a~ 20 feeE. You're ~elling me 15 feeu is less? 1~c~ BOARD ?~EHBER DINIZiO: You can't make the 1 aw. P0 NR. '.ERIT~: I'm not mak[r~g the law. BOARD fqE±IBER DINiZiO: i~u can enly say 21 wbat Ehe law says, and the law does nee say that '/sn get ~e, cheese wha~ their side :,ards are. 22 HR_ VERITY: is that the case for both building and zoning? I don't understand 23 tha~. Explain tha~ tc. me. If I can't choose, how can Ehe Zsning Board choose? 24 BOARD MEHBER DINIZIO: Stze ge~s cbT, asa. 25 HR. VERITY: Row come they can choose? We as. uid ha~-e eliminated the whcie thing. M al/ 20, '2004 57 1 2 BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Mi]£e, pay a~ention. T'hey are in Lheir zsne, Ehe size lot 3 the,' have, they are required bo have oF~e 15 side ~ard and one 20 foo~ side yard. Guess what, 4 wna~ do they have? ~hey have one 15 foo~ se~back, they do nave that_ b MR_ VERITY: They're required ~o have one 1S fooE setback_ They're not required ~o have a BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: They are requireO 7 ~s have a 20. If ~hey were buildirzg a new house, you could ~ell ~hem ~hey can'~ te i~. 8 ,2~iRNOHAN OLIiL~: dus~ ~o ~he aOdi~ion. BOA~D MEMBER DINIZIO: In's 9 preexisZing. You can't den5~ :hem for something nhey already have. Nnat I'm saying zo you is a 15 10 foot setback, if ~hey already have it, I don't Ehink ~ou can {any it. 11 MR. VERI~Y: ThaE's Ehe reason ~.,h}- we had nne dissussien prior ~o, I knew that the Beard, 12 sue we ~a~e been going over this aieng wizh Ehe a:-chiEecE back and forEh, but historically as 1 13 get an iniicakien from Ruth and yourself, Eha~'s ehe feeling I geL. This had to go. I~ was an 14 unofficial meeting we were ~alking a~ou~ zoning in general. I understand t~aL, I would nee have puc 15 the applicanE Lhrough the Eime if I had an intication from Ehe Board. So I do ha,?e co 16 aloolegize to you, Nancy. That's the indication tha~ I did get from the Zoning Beard, ~he cwo 17 members that I spoke BOARD MEMBER TORTC, RA: For the record, 18 ~ieed some clarification, you got an indication frcm who to do what? 19 MR_ VERITY: That was from Ruth and from Jimmy in a meeEir~g in referen.ue ~o zoning. We had 20 some parEic~lar questions to nonconformit~~, Ehe Uown anEorney was nhere also. 21 BOARD NIEHBER DINIZIO: Yes. CHAIR~'~OHAN C, LI~%%: Tha~ was differenE. 22 BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: This was Ehis epplicsUion? 23 MR. VERITY: Everybody saw ~he exact map. i i,~oult nee haye put uno people Ehrough ~his if I 24 lid nee get that type of feeling from Eno twc Board members_ i understand iE ~,~as uncfficial, 25 was non Ehe whole Board acuing BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I was non made May 2 0 , 2 0 0 % 2 privy to any ef ~ha~, E was not aware of it_ N~R. VERITY: Again, historically I was 3 usld ~his is the way it's aiwe_zs been done. This is Ehe indication ~ got from the ~wo Bcard 4 members, and they agreed wit~l ~ha~. I still don'~ undersEand the reasoning because iE's suiil 5 convincing to me. I mean, we'i1 be happy to write nhe permin if ~he Board feels 6 BOARD ~iEHBER TORTONA: They had ssked for an interpre~aEien of ~he code and 2es, ~he Board dses have ~he righ~ Ee render an interpretation. As I said te me, just looking a~ ~his -- 6 TFrs~IRWOHi~,I OLiVA: Tha~' s why i~' s h,e~er ~c juse come before ~he whole Beard beconase I c, honestly just don'~ remember ~his exacE cne_ HR. VERITY: ThaE's fine 1,2, CHAIRWO[~[AN OLIVA: I really den'S. £4R. VERITY: Again, we ceuid still write 11 this on a combined yard_ BOARD P1EN~R TORTORA: Absolu~eiy 12 [~IR_ VENITY: Tha~' s Ehe way ~he iisaFprovai - 13 CHAiRWOHAN uLI,..~.. Mike, the way I andersEand, i?ou goY the 15 foe~ en ~he wes~ side 14 and ~.s me, on nhe east side, if you go from she e.i~e ns the new deck, which is ~he new aidiEien, 15 ,-su're wa~' over the n~ So ~herefere, need -- ~he!? don'~ need anything 16 HR. VERITY: I don't unierstand how ~o~1' ~3e way c~er ~he 35. 17 CHAIRNOM_~2[ OLI,,z~: IE's a new area. I'm not counting in the existing, ~hat's existing, 15 i~'s there. But they're putting tt~e ne,..? aiditi2, n, rand than would be whi~ you woul,~ come te us Zor 19 someEhing if iE hadn'E increased ~he ncnconfermi~y. If iE had gone sLraight kack at 20, ~he 10 foeE,, Ehen ~ would say, yes, come ec us, h~t bo me /our new deck is so far over, y,su're 21 prsbebly ever the 26, lose side yard -- I mean combined. 22 HR. \~ERITY: AL this point in nime, if they come back, Ehey have an es~abiished ,combined 23 ~ard and 24.6. Se at any peinE ~he!? can build aL uhat cs. mbined _~,ard of 24.s, or do Ehey ha~e Es -- 24 ~his is jus~ another quesEion. B:DAP. D HE[IBER rORTORA.: SeparaEe uwc issues 26 hera. Number 1, Lhe house has a CC, for wllat's ~Nere. Isz the existing footprin~ eyer~:~hing's May 2S, 20Ce 59 1 2 intact _ HR. VEP_ITY: That's correct 3 BC,AP_D HENBER TORTOPJ~_: You're not go,n,g tc ga ~n~o -- 4 MR. VERITY: I'm not going back on that. I don't know how it was written, why it was S ?.,L-it~en_ We're just making guesses. BOARD MEMBER TORTONA: That's N~tmber 1, so ~ iiscussisn of any v~riances are sn the e~<isting house that's out ef the picture. So, 2, they're 7 proposing a new porch, a new deck, if yc, u look aZ ute setbacks from the west property line and lock 8 a~ the building envelope aE 15 and at 2,8, 'i-c.u'll cleari.' see t~hat th=, ~= within that building to 9 2,9 foot setbacks_ The new porch to the west ~rcpert~~ line is clearly 20 feet, but the ne ~ deck 10 is clearly, so there's no variances required ~i~ere, correct? Agreed. L~s ne ute issne of Yhe 11 west side of ~he propert:,, nhere's no variance, ~re we cn track? 12 NR. VERITY: Ta?~e ute building away, i ~gree with ~ou 100 percenU. 13 BOARD MEMBER FORTC, RA: We just saiO the ~uildin.~s's out of picture, that's got ~he ,SC,. i4 Now go o;er to the east side of the property. ~he east side of the property, the new garage addition iS is within the building envelope is secback more than 15 feet from the east property line, correct? 1 ~ MR VERITY: Correct_ BOARD MEI,[BER TORTOPA: The new ii,.ing room l~ atdition c.n ~he rear of the property c.n the ssutheas~ side is setback at 1S feet; is than 18 correct ? MP.. VERITY: That's correct. 19 BOARD MEMBER TC,~TORA: Nhere's the variance? 20 8OARD ~IEI[BER ORLAI~DO: To answer i.-our other .quesnion, 1,1ike, if they came before us on 21 ~he 10 feet and the 14.6, Ehe-:? would be hefsre us. BOARD MENBER TORTOP3: They're not doing 22 ar~ytt~ing over there. Because both of tt,_em, the deok addiEion ,on the fronE and Ehe back meet the 23 2,11. feet, on the wes~ side of ~he propertv, the issue ?f a '~ariance is moot. 2~ MR. VERITY:s~'~ basically interpreuation, cz- if you're going to make iu is interpretation, 2h that uhey could still choose their ?ards regariless ef what they have establishei? 6O 1 2 BOf~i~D HEHBER TORTORA: I think we're going no do a l.sn of t~in]£ing abouu Phis, and trot one 3 of the reasons uhat you're here is really t~as never surfaced for ?ou or for Lis before and it is 4 interesting. MR. VERITY: That's correct, and ~han's S wh5 it's ~ere, and like Jimmf said, I have to deal wit~l ~lack and white_ Unfertunatel!,-, I can'E make 6 the decisions, which ~he Zoning Board can. BOARD ME[.'IBER TORTORA: [E's Not cnt and ? dried bu~ it does happen to ~e a very good example cf a balance: Two variances no variance, 8nd to 8 me, nc ,~ariance because I'm looking at a proposal that will conform ue the code as much as possible 9 and how we interpret this, ant1 ]now ~,~e can go ~or,.,ard with this so that it's easy for .?au and 10 the a.pp. lican~s, and it may nee{ a code sllange or code clarification. I'm glad you're here so we 11 can hack these things out_ BOARD HE~,iBER ORLA2~DO: That ' s the 12 stumbling block, which is side is dedicaued or not iedicated. 13 MR. VERITY: Than was onr concern. Just fzr argument's sake, if the 10 was actually one, 14 our feeling zs ~he other side would have to be the larger side. Now we would liars 21 feet. The way lb i'ou're toir, g, ',~ou're onl) requiring the people uo have 16 feet, if you're going to allow them ts ge 16 ~o that yard. Se we're actuall., ='au know what, yo~ had 5our cake on this side, but 5'ou kno~'~, what, 17 .'cu have to comply with the larger requirement on ute other side because you're actually allo~,,ing 18 uhem to go even closer. They're alrsa~% taking ed,~anEage of one side, net becal~se it's their 19 fault. BOARD HEHBER TORTOPJ~_~ On that west si~e, 20 Uhev can't ~o anything on uhan west side unless nhef're 20 feet. No're sal~ing no, you're noL 21 going uo have 15 over ~here, we don'E care if ysur hsuse As 10, you've got to go to 20 feeu and 22 that's why ~hat new deck is at Least 2C feet_ MR. ROLLINS: Will the same tiling be said 23 ~c,,?n ~he roa~, five years from now when they come up wish e New e~lyelope an~ say, okay, now we want 24 ~o b~.~ild 15 over Rare, are we going to have uhe some discussion? 2b MR_ VERITY: Nh-~ can't ~hey? They can do shat, Ehat's what fou're sal-ing. Hay 20, 2004 61 1 2 BOAP_D HEHBER TORTORA: Becat~se y~tr variance is .going Uo say nhis side yard is 15 3 the wes~ side is required 20. Now, I ~sn'~ know - 4 MR_ VERITY: That's if there was a decision made en it, but you just said hhere was 5 basically not going to be a decision made on i~_ BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Then how do you keep 6 :r:ck of it in 5'our building records? HR. YERiTY: As I explained to you, the shoruer side, 7 historically, it's jush like when you're picking a rear yard, the eno where the ?ssi is dictates your 8 rear yard, but if there wasn't a pool and you hat one 5hat was 50 feet and one that was 3,2,, could 9 they really say the 30 foot, which was their rear -,ard e~en though it doesn't meet the 10 reguirements. That's wha~ you're telling me now, /ou're going to actuallk change the entire view ef 11 ~he way it's done. BOARD N'IE~BER ,~RL~i~£~: ~,~ike saying if 12 the li,~ing room ~as on that side, 15 and 20, Lha5 wcu!dn't have had a notice ef disapproval. If 13 5hey had swapped ~hem. MR. VERITY: That's the point I'm making. 14 It's very simple, but it could create prcblems in lhe future_ Ne really have never come across a 15 sase like that_ BOARD MEiqBER DINIZIO: I need te have hbaE 16 ~iscussion wit}l _~,ou, if you don't mind. Le~'s go hbrough what Daemon jush said_ Let's sa: EhaE 17 they some back saying what, come back and what? HR. ROLLINS: Five or 10 /ears ir,om now 18 whe_~ all of us are gone er i/ou guys are gone· Nt~_eE's preventing this architect or another 19 architect from creating a new conforming en~.elop, e 15 on one side and 20, on the other, and then 20 hu~ilding as close as 1~= on tha~ side. HR VERITY: That' ° wha~ ~'~ ' · ~ _~_~ r~ allcwing 21 them h.s do. BOARD HEHBER DINIZIO: I'm Not ge~tin~ 22 I don'u see how ~hey can make the other side anyhhing less hhan 20, right now_ 23 HR. VERITY: Nhy couldn't they, Jim? if this is gene and nobody ever knows about uhis 24 again, and the,_,,- come in with a new application BOARD HEf~[BER DINIZiO: Because uhen they 25 would be making r. his side here nonconforming. 'The:- weulO be making two nonconformities on chis. Nay 2,2,, 2004 1 2 ,3~e side theI' have 15~ the other si{e ~he5 need 20 they goU 10. So wha~ are you saying, the:-' re 3 going off ~he 1S side, ~he!"re going to move to 22,. That's making a nonconformity, right there, 4 r~hat's making another nonconformity. They' re going to have two nonconformities now, the_,?'re nst ~ going te have a single_ This house as built right no~.,, hes one nonconformity. That' s the way we' re 6 going to leek at i~_ That's the ~,,a}~ e~.ery~oty should loe~ at it. The house shoui{ be Suil~ ~ lease nonconforming, and with the way that uhis lot line, this seuSack drawing is made ~hat is 8 wLat it is rign~ now. And if they're going ~o came to you, someone's going E.o come to yon la,er o on and say, no, no, I want the iS Uo be 20, he's creating another nonconfermitu'. Now he has two 10 nonconformities because the house is neuer going to -- the 10 foot is never going to move, it's 11 always going to be 10 feet, but he's going Eo have two nonconformiuies. I don't know how you could 12 possibly s~y ~ha~ someone can come in and you're ~oing te miss that. I can see the confusion t~ere, 13 alEho~.~gh I ~en't, because I knew we leek at it from a different perspecuive than you de. I 14 happen uo thin]{ my perspective is right an{ yon thin}~ 5~ours is right. 19 N~R. VERITY: We're just Ur_¥ing to right thing for Lhe' applicant, Jim, ~hat's all. 16 BOARD HEMBER DINiZIO: Sometimes you can'~ dc t[~ings for the applicant, sometimes 5ce'ye get 17 tc just ,~o things. My knee jer~ reaction was no, ne, they .2ar~'t do uhat bun after looking au the 18 code, yes, 5, es the~~ can do that. M~' reason have 5cu in nero is to put :,our side of ~Re 19 s_~ the record ~ecause too often Eh~'s what happens. The Suilding inspector said this and the 20 bnilding inspector said chat, and you're there, and in all honesu!., I don't want to hear', 21 we need to hear from /cu. And I believe in same mee~ing, we had tha~ {iscussien. 1!2 [,IR_ VERITY: That's correct, any 5ime. BO}P_D MEMBER DINIZIO: And I insisEed upon 23 ~., and iu's nee that )'eh need to apologize, it's nc:5 a question of apoiog-~, iu's a qneshien of 24 claritv. CHAI RN O~,L~2~ OLIVA: Interpretation_ 2b BOARD MEMBER DINIZIC,: If you need, I c~n iN~erpreu t~is vet:~ easily, if tibet's when the 2004 63 1 2 board intends Ee {o, 12{h in m~' opinion Ehis applicant sheui~n't be be£ere es, that's how 1 3 feel abeuE iL, and I don't Ehink Ehis epplican~ shoul,ll pay for thee inEerpretaEion. And Lhat's % epinion _end Ehat's not a reflectien on Mike or Daemon, on the building inspecEer er even on the 5 tswn, iE's just how it is. Thanks a iot for c.sming, Mike. I Enink we have one person. ,S MS. STEELM.~i~: Can I make one staEemen~ here? I Ehink what the issue was when I sEarte.~ 7 working on this was i assumed than the non.2onforming setbacks requirement pertained te 8 F~ e ~,,, construction. CHAIRWOM_~2[ OLIVR: I agree. o PIS_ STEEL[~a2,?: Thee it {id not reflect Ehe e~isting building, which in same areas we liars 10 properties that are right on the property line, mhaE an ~ new censtruction had Ee fall within those 11 ewe setbacks, anO that in Ehis siEuaticn we were maintaining 35 fanE, we have a total e~ 3S feeE, 12 if we included, if as witR Mike and Daemon, sa' !0 feat, if Ehat's included inEo the calculatien of 13 letermining those seE~acks, we weuld hale 10 feet s.n o~e side, and we would be require~ Ehen Eo hate 14 2~ s~ the adjacent property Lo get 35. So we're seyiz~g we really ~,,,euld be 2S feet off that east 15 preperty line, and I ton'E believe EhaE's 16 BOARD HE].iBER DINIZIO: I think if 17 NS. STEELPL~I}: On the easEern pro~erEy line besause he's taking Ehe 10 end then seming 18 off the other prepareI line at - I'm sorri~, l%ave 10, Ehen you'~ have Es mainEain 25 to toEal 19 uhe 35, correct? BOARD MEHi~ER DINIZIO: ThaE's in new 20 csnstrucEion. And heNestly, I think that fram the Building DeparEme~%t it comes Eha~ wav scmeEimes 21 tbae Ehe.' considel- existi~g new c©nsEr~uEion, Ehey confuse ~hat_ Mf con~.ention hare iks tha£ you're 22 ~it,~ esking the town for anyEhieg, you're meetin.~ the code. In the lease intrusions way for Lhe lot, 23 and to thee point you're not tanied for 5~our side lards because it doesn'E come into pla--, EhaL 10 24 foaE doesn't co~e iEEe play because yom're not asking him te increase that in any way. The ['Ialz 2S decision is what confuses Enis whole thing. I EhinK theE's where t~e confusion honesEly comes_ May 20, 2004 2 TNis is ~o me what I just said. We need ~o ~ake all this paperwork and pet it on the side and let 3 ~hem go, arid I'll do an interpretation. I just think that the building inspector and Daemon deal 4 wit~ ~he Walz decision all the time, and I Think ~hat iT is confusing for them. I~'s not a 5 ql~estion, iT's not even mentioned in here. ~.{R. ROLLINS: This has nothing to to wi~h 6 that. CHAI~J,~OI','L~2? OLIVA: Jim, we're running ~ late, let's lust say that we den'~ have a problem of granting ~he Building DeparTment permit and Jim 8 and Mike andlDaemon and all of us getting ~o.gether ar. some poin~ in uime and really hash this ,ouT. ~ HP_. ~IERITY: IT really does neet to be resolved, you do have the question of ~he combined 10 ~.aris, like Nancy had me~-~Tioned, ~hat is ir~ ~he code. We historically again, never really view 11 that, but there is a separate coll[mn for combined yards, and it doesn'T say that it's exisUing, new 12 construction doesn't tell '_,~ou additions, alnerahions, doesn't tell you where you have To 13 he. We dou't ~ave a column for tha~, but ,Ye do have tc lump all Tha~ in. Bu~ historically-, we've 14 hayer bettered anybody o~i combined yards_ CMAIRWOPIY2,I OLIVA: Let' s get together_ 1~ MaYbe a motion mo close the hearing and resgrve decision. 16 (See minutes for resoluaion., 17 CHAIRWOPLA2I OLIVA: The next erze is Mr_ ½ama. This is the hearing for PaTterson arid 18 Cer~tral A?enue on Fishers Island for the p~oposed -~aising ef the garage, though on the plan here it 19 shows a dotted line then a straigRt line around it; are we expanding that garage? 20 ~,{R. HAP,[I',I: No. We're raisinc The roof line, that dotted line is existing. You can see 21 haw low it is in the rear four, five feet. MS_ KOWALSKI: The wails are staying the 22 same? MR. HAHP[: Yes. There is some 23 conversation before, it is a preexisting structure and nas a CO as such, a~d I'o like to put This 24 i:~o ~e record. You had questions of Daemon as t© how the nouice of disapproval was writter~ up. 2S BOARD NIEI'~IB~R DINIZIO: Daemon, are _~ou familiar wiun it? Hay 20, 200~ 2 CHAiRNOI~L~a2~ uLl~,.~: Because -pon' re sal-i!~g iN case Eke wa~erfro.`~t parcels accessor-~~ buildings 3 s~rnc~ures ma,: be located in the front ~rard provided that s~ch buildings mee~ the front yard 4 setback iinaudible} is ne~ed as being in the side yard, which is preexisting in the side yard, 5 pre-CO in the side yard. HR_ ROLLINS: That's correcE. ?Id had 6 ~bis beer~ after a certain date where we s~arted pn~ing ~he Nalz no~a~ion in ~he notices of v disapproval, i v~ould have done ~ha~ on t:his one because we believe uhis me be an increase i:~ 8 nonconformi~,, because it's in ~he wrong place and now the-r' re going up. 9 MS_ KONALSKI: On ~he disapproval i~ says csnstrucE ac.2essery building. He says he's not 1,2, cs. nstrucEing an accessory building. CHAIRWOHAN C, LIVA_: iu should be 11 reconstruet, just going up. HR. ROLLINS: Adding to a nonhabi~able 12 accesser': building. Bu~ it's in a nollccnforming place. I don't belie~,~e he's making i~ nwo 13 sueries, simpi:,~ raising the height ef Ehe building. 14 BOARD HEHBEN TORTORA: Does the heigh~ of Ehe b~liiding exceed the code limiE? 15 I4R. ROLLINS: No, it ds, es net, ne~ to m} kn.swiedge. 16 BOARD HEHBER TORTORA: Does it e_.'~ceed frenE yard, side yard, rear yard setbacks? 17 MR. ROLLINS: Ne, it does not. BOARD HEHBER TORTOP_~_: So it's net going 18 suhside t~e nonconforming so,backs, building on-'elope; is that correct? 19 MR. ROLLI£[S: Correct. BOARD I.iEMBEP. ORLANDO: So if hhis came 2,0 before :-on today i?ou would write the interprehatien thee you have bee.`i doing iatei5 21 with the Nalz decision? MR. ROLLINS: z=~, and i~ addition ~c. tha~ 22 I woult else write - and a mistake or~ my part - -,.,,hat was also' left suE, was a nonconforming 23 building wi~h a conforming use shall ECU be enlarged such that it does no~ create a new 24 nenconfc, rn~ity. Then I would go inuo the face b. ase~ on zhe ~,'lalz decision, iE is increasing in 25 hei_~hE, and t~ere is already a nonconforming building in ~Ne side yard. 66 1 2 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I think to clear that up, it sounded like it was a brand new 3 construction. MR_ ROLLINS: I see that from the wording_ 4 BOARD MEMBER TORTO~: Are you increasing height, you are no~ exceeding the height, the code 5 required height limit so you cannot be increasing nonconforming height when there is none. 6 MR. ROLLIMS: I'm not talking about Nonconforming height, I'm talking about 7 nonconforming placement. BOARD MEMBER TORTO?~: Say that again. 8 MR_ ROLLINS: Tnt placement of the Duilding is nonconforming. It's mn Ehe side yard. 9 it's not permitted ~e be in ~he side yard. CHAiRWOM~ ODIVA: But ;ou have a pre-CO 10 on MR. ROLLINS: That's correct. 11 MS. KOWALSKI: Are you sa~'ing alterations can't be done? 12 MR. ROLLINS: No, I'm saying you can'U create a new non, conformity, and if you look at ute 13 Walz decision, and more specifically, what's given te us wi~h ~he Walz decision, ~he diagrams that 14 are given, you clearly state in your decision that going up -- 15 BOARD MEMBER TORTO~k: If you ge in~o an area, a height area above the ce{e limit. This 16 isn't going aho%e the code limit. MR. VERITY: I don't think iE reads that 17 way, Lydia. BOARD MEHBER DINIZIO: Can I comment? 18 Daemon, you're exacUly right_ You followed tha~ Walz decision Eo a T. And in all hones~i' t~is is 19 where I thought we would be. l~ecause you have the person that wrote it doesn't understand it because 20 there's a problem with that law. Now, I would only say one thing, I think it's unclear from this 21 application whether or not uhis actually exceeds the seubacK limits ~or a principal structure on 22 the properuy. I'm neu sure about ~ha~. I ~idn'~ see that. I understanO how ~ou're interpreting it 23 because if they're going up, Walz says you can't do Eha~, ehae increases ~he nonconformit2~. The 24 accessory structure is a nonconformity, wRether it's setback, wheuher it's a shill a 25 nonconformit2, you write on all your notices of Oisapproval, can't increase, can't do t~is, can't May 20, 200% 67 1 2 is tha~. I see tha~ all ~lle time. I burn time I see it, but ~llat is the crux e~ the prsbiem 3 ~llaT we face when ?ou put ~ha~ Walz decision an there that we need to - definitely, I ~ave m_,T own % opinion on. ~u~ I look at this notice of ~zsat~proval, ~ listened to I~lr. Halnm cetne in 5 he's ~al~_ir~g about Walz. He's saying }ou ~_ncw, i~'s a~ ~he Nalz decisierl, but it's no~ .sr~ The 6 n2.~ice ef disapproval. NR. ROLLINS: ± egree, and i Deiieve - I and i ce~l~ be incorrec~ ~- ~T ~ believe when we ~.~rote this Harch 9Th, we had not hac~ tha~ meeting, 8 we ~lad no~ s~ar~e~ p~tting tha~ in t}lere_ BOARD N~HBER ~INiZIO: You ceultn'~ pu~ o Nalz on tills piece of The code. In o~l~er words, Naiz applies - 10 HR. ROLLI~S: You're rigilt because I h~ve lef~ out an©~her piece of ~ne cede, which is a 11 nenconformin? buii~ing -- i can'~ say ~ off the ~z,p of m:~ head_ 12 8C, ARD P~EI~R DINIZIO i nnderstand. It's i00 13 NR. ROLLINS: -- 242 BOARD M~?{BER DINIZIO A or B, w~atever it 14 ~s. ~.'IR. ROLI~INS: Right_ 15 BOARD HEI'~IBER E, INIZIO: The point is Eh£s F~e~ice of disapproval tha~ you hK~e llere, I ~link 16 ~haE he can do that. I den'E Ehink - you lcoked a~ the applica~ioll, bt~t when i look aE Ehis I 17 thin}~ he's allowed Es ~o it accorting te Ehis par~ ,zf ute co~e, buE no~ according to ~he other pare 18 of The code. MP._ ROLLIITS: Correce. And nl~is is 19 insufficient. I agree. BO.Zl_D PIEI~IBER DINIZIO: I don't thin}~_ :'ou 20 san cite ~his in this instance, ~hat's the way I ~eel about Ehis_ 21 NIR. ROLLINS: Tha~' s ccrrec~. BO~t!D MEMBER DINIZIO: So, ~,,ha~ to we ds? 22 NS. KC,P~ALSKI: Get an alnen~ed disapproval. NR. ROhLINS: I ceul,~ to ttlat r.o.ia5 23 ~C,ARD HE[,[BER ORL_A31DO: Problem rec~ifie,l. BOARD MEHBER DINIZiO: Could you do me a 24 ~a~, oz ? MR. ROLLINS: Abseluteii,'. 2~ B,DA~.D MEMBER DINIZIO: Be specific about r_he setbacks. NI~l you're ciEing Walz in the May 20, 200~ 68 1 2 decision. MR_ ROLLINS: I'll warn you ahead of Yime, 3 I won't reference setbacks because it's in tile side yard. I often gee people coming in saying 4 well, how far do I have to be from the road. could he a foot, you could be 100 fee~, if ~ in tl%e si~e yard you can'~ be there_ BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I may have a 6 ~ro~lem wi~h vou citing Walz. [','iR. ROLLINS: I understand thaE. 7 BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I think we can agree that this no,ice of disapproval, this 8 article tha~ you cite doesn'~ apply. NR. ROLLINS: it sEill has to be ciEed 9 beca~se we still ~ave te get to the fast thau this is lccated in the side yard Nos in the required 10 rear or frcnt. CHAIRWOM_~i~? OLIVA: El. on with a pre-CO? 11 MR. ROLLINS: If we take that away, then there's no reason ~o send Enem for a variance for 12 an increase in nonconformity. MR_ VERITY: Actually, I ~_now it's not in 13 the code just because it nas preexisning stanus 5ou woui~n'~ be able to eliminate ~ha~. You made 14 a decision like this ~efore, it wasn't on an a2cesssry building, Sut there was another propert}~ 15 in East ~,larion. Same idea, just went -up a little bis, and you di~ make a decision en it. The:, 16 added dormers_ Sometiling the Building Departmen~ woul~ no~ normally send, but again, I ~on't want 17 t~ say the Walz decision was based on BOARD MEMBER DINiXlC,: Was ~hat an 18 accessory structure? MR. ROLLINS: No, principal. 19 MR. VERITY: But it was sui!l shier the knight requiremenE. It meu ever.~thing else. 2[. B2, ARD MEPIBER ORLANDO: Treat was jusn recently. 21 CHAIRWOMAN eLI%A: Yes did another eno ~oo .~c. wn on Oak Avenue_ You did anoLher one down in 22 New Suffolk_ BOARD HEMBER C, RLKi,~DO: We jus~ nee~ ~o 23 Ehrew in here ~he addition, Lhe alEeraEion. NR- ROLLINS: i'm going Es take care 2% that immetiauel_.?. MS. KC,WALSKI: When t~e plan proposed a 25 garage ik sounded like nothing was Ehere. t,~R_ ROLLINS: Thank you. 20, 2004 69 1 2 _}[~IR%~u]L~2{ OLiVA: Thank you for comln.s down. 3 MR. VERITY: if we could work ~cge~Her i~ ~o sEreamline it_ 4 C~AIRWOPL~ OLiVA: Hr. Harem, ~her~ I guess we could close Ehe hearing and reserve decision 5 un, il later? MR. H}t{~I: Yes. I have noEhing to say 6 o~her ~han I hope fc, u can appreciate hew hard is for lawyers no gise advice on zoning man,ers. 7 BOAP_D MEMBEP~ DINI~I0~ Nhy would you close thisP Ne may need ~o h~ve another hearing_ 8 HS. KONALSKI: I have to say when I adveruised i~, I advertised it as if it's a whole 9 new building, it's covered 100 percen~ for the construcuion. 10 BOARD ~[EHBEN DINIZIO: That's wh,' I'm asking. 11 ,~H~_IRwOILA~I OLiVA: If mt deesn'E have be readseruized -- 12 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: She sa}s in Ehe legal neEices it says concerning the proposed side 13 yard locaEion of a new. ~IS_ KOWALSKI: That's righ~ because ~h~h's 14 wl~aE ul~e plans said. NR. HAHH: We're going te rebuild in in 15 N!a2e, I was concerned abou~ l~a-;img more than percenn. 16 CHAIRNOI~Z~i{ OLiVA: Are you rebuilding Ehe whale thing in place? You're ge, lng uo Eake 17 walls down and rehuiid it? HS. KONALSKI: Yes. That's why i 18 adverEised it EhaE wa~-. We're net doing jusE an addition. 19 HR. HY2qM: I eauEion uhem again, because .~arious provisions of ~he cede, all of a sudden a 20 buiidi~g inspecUor may sa~' it's more than percent gone and ~herefore you've lost 21 Bi,ARD MEMBER DINIZIO: if we made ~he 22 HR. HAH~[: If I have a decision from i.~cu thaE it permius Lha~, then i ~hink we ,2eh de it in 23 R sensible way, yes. Initially, befcre I EhoughE we ~eeded a variance, I had suggested Ehat they 24 thaE. in any even~, thank you very much. CHAIRWO}~L~2{ OLI~.L~ i make a motion Ea 2g slsse uhe kearing reserve decision unE. ii lamer. ,~See minutes for resoluEior~., May 20, 2004 7O f-.. CHAIRWOMAN C, LNJA: Nex~ ~earing is for · 3 Briarcliff Sod concerning two lcts that are less than 80,000 square feet in land area. % MR_ FITZG~P~LD: Jim Fitzgerald for Briarcliff Sod. We were here several -Tears ago on 5 ~his s~me project, and I wo~ld like ~o, with ~he appropriaee up{ates, read te you the same 6 information that ± gave you then, with ~he changes ~hat have occurred since then. In ~ Hr_ Cicanewicz, in prepari~g ~e sell developmen~ rights to part of his proper~y to 8 Suffolk Count5~ while re~aining a parcel ~s ~e ~ivided into nwo building lets on Leslie Road, 9 arranged for a s~rvey to be c.2. mple~ed. The surveyor was instructed in a general way mo 10 accomplis~ this on paper. Lot Number 1 and 2 were ~rawn in the appropriate width of 175 feet hue tl~e 11 lo~ depth Ehat was ~rawn is insufficien~ to pro,~ide lous of the size required in Ehe AC 12 risuricu. Since the surve~or is ~eceased, we ca~ only speculate EhaU ~he error had ins origins in 13 Ehe geemeUry ef the lots. If uhey were .... rectilinear they would ~e more than adequaue in 1~ area. The round number depth of 500 feet seems like a figk~re ~haE might have been chosen wiEh Ehe 15 ~heught thaE even wi~h the non rectilinear shapes it ough~ to be more than enough, but obviously the 16 arithmetic was never done. In discmssing NrejecE ~,iEh Suffolk Coun~p', Hr. Cicanowicz 17 learned tha~ the counuy was not interesEet in acquiring the barns in ~he northern part cf uno 1~ proper~y. The map was drawn excluding uhe barns. Since there were no plans ~e de anymhing with 17 properS_~ the barns o.2cup~e~, a propose~ ls~ Number 4 was drawn in to maximize the area available to 2,3 ~he ccun~i' and minimize the area occupie~ by ]Darns. The resulEing map was used Le prepare 21 deed of development rights and Ehe development righEs for Lot Number 3, an area of 19.415 acres 22 v. as sold ~o Suffolk Ce~ntv and ~he ~ax maps were :notified accordingly_ Nnen Hr. ,2icanowicz took 23 ute first steps to officially subdivide uhe preperU~, the error in uhe calculated geomeEr~~ 24 came ho lighE, and in was noted t~aL hots Numbers 1 ant 2 were each other 74,336 square feet in 25 area, while the minimum lo~ size of ~he A,2 DistricE is 80,000 square feet_ An atEempE was Play 20, 20,54 71 1 2 made bs remove the discrepancy b,,T requestirig that the count:':" sail back the development rights to a 3 so, all area necessary to bri~g the uwo building ions up to a minimum size. I went Eer. he S~ffolk 4 ,County Planning Departmen~ in Hauppauge who spoke cc. Bob Ri ckerC who said than there was ne way that 5 the county would be willing or able co sell enl. of _n= development rights back. And so we fi~d ,S ,~ _~_1,~ before the Board of Zoning Appeals. The required width of a lot in the AC ? dis~riut is llot less than 1~7~u feet. The ~o~ai width for the two ioEs 350 feet of the area 8 comprising bo~h Lo~ 1 and 2 was perceived to &fLeet this need when the original map was drawn. If Ehe 9 ccmbined area were rectilinear, the height of ~he rectangle would be the same 350 feeu. The 10 non-rectilinear area however has heighE of onl}- 29~.3 feet because of the angle shown by ~t~e 11 i£ztersec~ion ef ~he front and side properEl' lines_ ihs area of each is 7~,336 square feet. TNe 12 difference between this and required minim~m is 5,664 square feeE, ~ deficit ef 7.1 percent. The AB iifference viewed from the standpoint of the 1~}.416 acre parcel for which the develepmenE 14 rights w=~= sold ~e ~uffelk ,2ought!,~ is 0 6 percent. Mr. Cicanowicz states Et~at he did net 15 aohieve any financial gain ~s s result of ~he iz~cremenuaily leA-gar preper~y for which Ehe 16 ie-~elepmenE righr_s were sold. The benefit to the a_cplicant if Ehe %ariance is granted is ~ha~ ha 17 will be the owner of ~he two buiidi~g lc~s ~hat he .2onuempiated awning when the sur,~ey was underuaken 18 b.- a licensed professional sxperu. The varianae if granted will not be a deEriment Eo the health, 19 safeu,l and general welfare ef hNe neighl%.erir~g community. 'The surrounding preperuies are devoted '2,2, larcoely Ee agricultural pursuizs. The nearest ex,sting residenb, ial properties are 1_1 acres in 21 size while the proposed lots hers will .be tn,ore tNan 1 8 acres in si:~e. Beeause Suffeik Counu5- ~,,~ will ne~ sell back ~o Mr. Cicanewics ~he =.,=lupm~nu righr, s E.o. an? ef the lar~d already 23 transferred ze ~he county, tile uo~al area in~ended to provide two building lots can't be increased in 24 size _ If the variai~ce is not grant_ed, 25 Mx Cicanowicz will suffer a seT-ere financial burdei1 by reason 2. f being able ho sell only one I,ia,z 2,2,, ~, · 72 1 2 building loT.. The relief requesT,ed is not substanthal, as I mentioned earlier, the area 3 ieficit of each lot amounT,s T,o cnlI' 7.1 percent. ~.,= r= sul-e ~haE T,he small deficiency in lot size 4 will not be even be noticeable in the area because no~ only because of the relanively large let sizes 5 on an absolute bas[s, but also because of T,he number of smaller lot sizes of the closer 6 residential loT,s. The impact on the environment will net be any different from that expected if ? uhe two lots were of Lhe required minimum size. I~z should be noted as a result of the sale 8 of development rights of T,he county, ~he proposed subdivision includes only two building loT_s; tile 9 pr.sporty criginalli% ef course, could hal. e included many more building lots, but 10 _r,[r. ~l~z~o~zcz chose to sell the developmen~ rights tea major portion ef T,he property_ 11 Nhen we firsT, appeared before uhis Board sn 9.20. 01, uhe Beard expuessed concern abou~ the 12 ~.ncn':~mous Lot 4 and asked T,haE we discuss it with T,he Planning Board. On 12,'15 03 in a Planning 13 Board work session, i~ was suggested bl- ~he Bsard T,haT, LoT, 4 be eliminated and that T,he area of LoE 14 4 be included within nhe properT,5~ lines of Lo~ 3, that's the eno that went te the county ievelepme~ut 15 righT,s, buT, that the area be designated on T,he sure. el~ as, queEe, outside the limits of Suffeik 16 ~unE,. development rights_ This change was made and T,he Board has the resulting map before it. 17 Lastly, this should be neT,ed that this Nroposed subdivision is ir~ substance idenEicai Es 18 tnaE w~ich this Beard approved after a public iiearing on 1 '13/2000 for t~he adjacenT, property ts 19 the east, excepT, for the configuration ef the tv~e individual buildings lots. 20 ,~H.~_IRH~N:~_N OLive.: Basically what .... sa!'in9 is that ~he suryeyors made T,he mistake whe~n 21 they laid out these Ewe building loLs? i. IR. ~ITm~ER.,LD. ~=~, as far as we can 22 tell. Yes, it was Van Tui~i did iT,, and, ef ,~,ur~e~_, he's not around t_o ask abouT_ it. 23 CHAIRWC%U~i~ OLIYA: Mr. Orlando? BOARD ?,{EI,'IBEP. UP_LANDS: ~lo questions. 24 CHAIRNC,NAi~ C, LIVA: [,Irs. Tortora? ~P~D [q~I~IBER TORTORA; NO, I actuali-.. 25 run,ember ~his one ~ery well_ CHAiRWO~..L'L2[ OLI\Z_~'_: Mr. Dinisio? Hay 20, 2004 73, 1 2 BOARD ~4EMB~R DINiZIC,: No questions_ CHAIRWOI~AN OLIVA: Anl/body in the aLtdience 3 wishes ho speak for or agains~ ~nis applica~ior~? If no~, I'll close ~ne hearing and reser_~e 4 decision un,-il iaLer. {See minutes for resolu~ion.~ CNAIRWOMAiI OLIV~-~: Ne×L hearing is 6 Bremer's Market an~ Deli on Flaii! Road in HaUti~h~c]£. 7 MR. CONDIN: Good afternoon, my nsme is John Cendin, Condin Er~gineering in Hattituck. 8 Lhe ager~ for Hr. Bremer, the owner for North Fork Deli. ~c~ We're proposing before '?ou LO rebuild ~he e~zisting c~eli currently on the exis5ing lot. 10 Apprsximately at tDe end ef year 2000, the building had a fir.e, which des5royed a psrticn ef !1 5he tuiiding'_ We filed aU thaE time for a tuilding permit, and we were granned a building 12 permiE in June of 2001_ A5 Ehat Lime Elle previous chner started some repairs on the building, but 13 5hose repairs were s5epped as a result sf some !isigation tha~ was going en and the building had 14 leid vacant and in disrepair frsm that period on_ As a result, Lhe buil0ing permi5 thaL had been 15 issued hod expired. When Mr. Bremer bough5 the prspersy jusn w~tnin the last co~ple, Lhree 16 mcnslls, he planned to rebuild ~he deli, we trico F_c geL 5he building permi5 reinssaSed. The 1 Building Departmen5 ~old us 5ha5 they wc. uid not, ih~L we would have 5o suhmi5 a plan for rebuilding 18 5he existing s~ruc~.ure under the new codes. We suOmitted a site plan for :hat, and it was 19 reiec[~ed because of setbacks. Setbacks for this particular properzy are 100 feez on the western 20 side of Legion ~s;enue, and 100 feet on Lhe Hain Ro~d. And it also has a bac};?ard sezbacks of 35 21 feez anO a side yard seuback of 20 feet.. The loz is 128 feet deep and 75 feet wi~e_ 22 Wha5 we're asking the Beard for is for some relief se we can rebuild the deli and 23 Idr. Bremer back in business. CHAIP. WOM~Ig OLIVA_: Can y©u answer me a 2~ question, is there any cellar underneash 5haE? }'IR. COND IN: ~Io. 25 ,2HAiRWO?,L~_N OL±VA: J~sE a crawl space or ~glla E ? May 20, 20,]~ 7~ 1 2 HR. CONDIN: Tile back part of t~e ~)uilding was kind of an addition that was put en to the 3 building and it's on slab o~l grade. The front of the building has a combi~a~ien of pilis~gs on one % side of the building that's used as a foundation an~ then there's some cad, crete block that was put S in along the fron~ and eastern sides. C~L?~_IRWC,PS~N OLIVA: I would jnst ask a 6 questioh chat the other melr~ber that's hoe here ~oday had wan~ed to know, if you could Rot move .. ~hat building Oack and lift ~he cesspools that are ~h the back, and pu~ ~_hem in the front so it woul~ 8 be setback fl~om Route 25 because it's so close to Route 2S, and tl~at pepsi, eps 5~eur ingress could be 9 from Route 25, ~hen egress could be on i, egion A. argue, because we certainl5~ do no~ want Eo l~ave 10 ~he cars backing out into Route 25, as we've done in the past Decause you're taking your life in 11 i~'O ur H[~. CON~}IN: We h~nderstand thaE. In fact, 12 in ~his particular si~e plan, we lied made previsions for parking in the back ef 13 properr~5. Tt~ere's enough room on the eastern siie cf the building also te add two more parkihg 1% spaces, as well as another parking space a~jacen~ to the building wi~ere one of ~he septic systems is 15 locate.~. ,2~AIR~OI'%~N OLIVA: Would there ~e any 16 dif~ic~ltl- in moving ~hat, going ~o ~he Board ef ~{eal~h and asking to nnders~and thee ~l~e cesspools 17 are back ~.here and ~lla~ it would no~ be difficul~ tc ask them ~e pep them up and put Ehem in 18 front. MR. CONDIN: We undersnand that and yes, 19 if r. hat was a requiremenE, 5'es, %.~e would cohform to tha~.. 2,.i CPIAIRWC,}[A[,[ OLIVA: Hr. Orlando? Bi, ARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Are you going 21 demolish the building, jusE level iE and start o, er again, correct? 22 MR. CONDIN: It's .she of these things ~hat ~he building is so far from Cuing ih coni[©rmahce 23 with the current codes ~nat jusE to abide bi; the c~rren~ codes would require it Eo ~e lo.ruled, ~ot 2{ r_o say the existing structure also is a~ the state, at least the foundation, ~ha~ ~t's not 25 salvageable _ BOAP. D MEN{BER ORLA2~DO: So on your site },lay 20, 2004 25 1 2 plar~ here, yon reallI, don't show the egress and ingress. 3 ~.~R. CONDIN: Ha}The that wasn't showF~ clearly. Whe~ we planned on doing was coming in 4 on a curb cu~ ~lat would be a~ ~he lower rig~-haNci cordier on the Haiti Road. b CHAIRN,D~,'tA3J OLIVA: East side? ~.~R. CONDIN: Ease side, that's 6 csrrect. Go aroun~ the building uo park in ~he rear, exAU Ehe propertF- onto Legion Avenue. ? BOARD PIEMBER TO~.TORA:. WPzere ? ],.~R. CONDiN: If you take a look a~ ~he 8 site plarz, you'll see a notanion called telephone pule _ 9 CPr%IR~,~O~.~I3I OLIVA: RighE ~exE to N[R. CONDIN: The curb cut would be just 10 suuth of ulnar perEic~lar telephone pole. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: The k~lackbsp on uhe 11 eas~ si,~e of the b~iiding is for wPzatP [.IR_ CONDiN: On Ehe east side of ~he 12 bk~ilding ~ha~ woh~ld be a driveway, that woul{ allow people coming in frsm ~he Main Road to ge~ 13 uo ~he back of the building for parking. ,?HAIR~O~EeN OLIVA: You're going ~o have 14 go to the DOT for chaE curb cus, correct? },~R. COND/N: Yes, we understand ~nat_ 1S BOARD MEHB~R ORLANDO: I see ,_,,cur point. It's surrounded b:~ hiackcop, it's all parking? 16 HR. CONDIN: Ne had ~o int:ention of ?~aving an.~ parking e}~cep~ in the back. }bwever, I thin]{ 1~ when we gee {one with computing - we ha~e been working with Planning oR this, hy the ,,,~a5- - afEer 16 we get done with an agreeable floor plan as far as space and requirements for perking, ~here's a 19 pessibiliuy we m~y need two additional parking spaces, an~ they had suggested that along ehe 20 eastern side, which is approximaEell,, the lease dimension ~here is 26'10", we could prebabl- fi~ 21 ~h~z. parking spaces adjacent ~.o the properuy and sne ~ilat ' s parallel. 22 CHAIR~'IOPL~2,I OLZVA: Parallel to ~he line. BC, A~.D HEHBER TORTOP~i~: You are planning to 23 having access from 2S? MR. CONDIN: There woh~l~ be a door on 2% front of 2S for people walking in from ~he s~ree~, bu~ ~here woul~ be ~o parking in ~he front. 2~ BOARD MEPIBER TORTORA: And ~here wo~ld nu vehicle egress or anything? May 20, 2004 76 1 2 HR. CONDiN: 2,Io, we had not plannet for egress cue of ?_haE drii~eway en to 2S. 3 B.i,ARD PIEMBER ORL:A2~DO: Nt~aE is required parki;~g? 4 HR. CO}IDiN: The parking for this, ~his {.,;as designated as retail deli space and based en 5 20.,3, square feet per space we required four and a-half parking spaces. 6 C~AIRNOH~I 2LilzA: That's all? MR CONDIN: That's ali_ i'i~-~ sure we're 7 gsing b3'. be required some more because some spaces required for emple}~ees so it will be at least 8 another two. B,OARD i,{ErqBER TORTOPJ-'_: Is there ~oir~g uc, be ~' any expansion of ~he exisuing foouprinE? MR. CONDIN: No. The only difference - 10 BO}~D IIEi~BER TONTOP_A_: Using the exisEir~g f c. undat i on? 11 MR_ CONDIN: Using the existing foo~priet. The way iu's set up right now is there's a !er5 12 ~arrow alley be~.~een the addition tha~ was puE on ute hack of the building and the freeze building 13 and what. we're planning orr doing is closing ~hat J n and using ~hat as the overall footprint. Se 14 ~h~ s is the footprin~ of ~he existing building_ BOARD r~EHBER ORL£~i,IDO: Hv personal o~in~on 15 i ~hink I need to see a revised si~e plan showing ?ok~r required parking. We'd like to tweak iu back 16 z~s far as we can for a safety factor, not an,, cEher purpose. 17 CHAIRWOI~L~i'? OLIVA: '~ ~ ' d ~ls~ I like te see I%sw far bec]c_ you could move Ehe building then 15 accsmmoda~e ~he parking and driveway ~c exit deli. 17 BC, AP_D P~EMBEP_ ORL3i~DO: Righ~ now ~ou have iu surrounded by blacktop, which is like a free 2,1, for all. We ,.,~ar~t to avoid chaos and mayhem at Ehat intersection. 21 CHA~RWOI¥I.~lg OLI~;A: I'm sure ~he Pianlling Bcart is going to require some kie,d of 22 landscaping. That's no~ in our jurisdicEion. NR. CONDIN: Ne could shew that o~l a 23 re--ised plan. This plan was see up primarily kecause we wanted ~o -- 24 uH~IRU~II2~ OLI.,_-'~: ,~=~ it before us? I~iR. CONDiN: gel iD before you as soon 2~ as we could, bud also uo try to salvage uhe sepDic s--stem. Hr. Bremer had put in a new grease ~rap May 20, 200% 2 and septic tank in ti~e not too distant past. In fac~, it was rigNt before the fire. Sc. 3 figured, le~'s ~ry Ehis one. Ne cer~ai~iy don'~ w~nt ~o have to dig up the enEize septic sysEem, 4 which par~ of it would be required if we moved the b~ildi~lg back. 5 CH~IR~OPL~2{ OI~IVR: ~y understanding is i~'s non ~hat di[fic~ln ~o pep ehem ou~ and pun 6 ENem -- I me~n, I'm not one pa~ing for i~. Bi,ARD ME~.,IBER ORLAi, iDO: My opinio~l, before 7 we cas~ cc, me up wi~h a setback, we would want know parking. We don't want te restrict you, 8 maybe now you need more, now you need less. If we have a be~ter idea, we don't want to pu~ you in a 9 corner. CHAIRNC,H2~,~ OI~iVA: f~m~y~hing further? 10 BOARD MEI'4BER TORT,ORP.:~ Ne . NR. CONDIN: If I mighh add anor. her thing, i1 when we were working ,,,~itil Bruno, we were Eryin9 make uhis particular si~e plan conform as much 12 we oouid, end whaE was neat about the f~c~ ~hau b~d Ehe parking in the back was ~here's also a 13 requirement that theI' had for deliveries a cerEain distance of, I don'E recall the exact amount of 14 space, bun uhis particular disuance between ~he hack cf ~he building and Lhe back preper~y line or 1S ~he back of the parking area allows a ~EklO]C to come in and deli,,er ,,.,.,ithout disrupting the enEire, 16 cr aL least most of Ehe perking ~reas back there Sa it was a comhinaLion of Erying to hold on~c ~he 17 exisEing septic system and also meeting that. parEicuiar requirement. 18 BOARD I,IEHBER ORL~i,IDO: I personally wouiin't }~ave a problem if you acEualiy moved 17 building 2loser te 25, bile ~ou pu~ Ehe toor Kccess sn the opposine side Eo alleviata the confusion en 20 the Main Read, if you pulled the building a iit~le .2icser en 25, but you know you have your in~ress 21 Lhere right, but ehat's all grass, no access ~here, ha~e everyLhing ever there. 22 CHAIRNC,MAN ,i, Li~.%: ThaE's no~ a had iie~. B,O~2.D MEMBER ORLANDO: JulsE wane te avoid 23 Ehe acLi-;iEy in ~he fronE Eb~ere_ It's a dangerous interse.2Eion_ You don't want ~e enhance uhat. 24 CHAiR~'IOHAN OLIVA: I~'s goELen worse. Jim? 25 BC,f-tD M~[.,IBER DIMIZiO: I don't know, i lhink ~eu're going in a direcEior~ I Ehink ~his Mai' 2,£,, 20,9~ 78 2 gentleman really ~oesn't need ~o go in. As I see iE the frsnt, Ehere's not going to be parking 3 there_ HT, assumption's there's going to be a curb there E. nat people aren'E going to be able ts ge 4 o-fur_ I'm assuming that there's g~ing to scmething in E. his 25 feeC ~o Rouue 25 th~ah doesn't S allo~,'~ ~he person to pull a car up t}lere_ The fact thaE iT's black~ep, I ~on"t know aOout Ehat. 6 MR_ CONDIN: We could remove ute blacX_Eop and ma,-Se have a walkway. 7 BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Every business should have a front door en the Main Road, uhat 8 would be not vet}~ helpful to !?ou. I guess I'd like to see ~he psrking too, if you can get it. I 9 think nl~at just the face than you will be parking cars - I've eaEen there many times, in facE, as a 10 maL~er of facE, I waited for Lhe fire departmenE te come, and it may noE have been my phone call, 11 but we saw Ehe smoke and called, It's only m spiz~ien and ever_vbody else has ~heir own say, 12 that helps nremendeusly ~he fact that 5eu're not gezz~g Es put that in Ehere and hopefully you den'u 13 have to move MR. CONDIN: T~ank you_ 14 BO/~JP~D PIEHBER ORLP~,?DO: Il Enink we're all Erring ~o say we don't wann ~o deny yoz~_ t~[e wan~ 1~ 'to create a safe atmosphere. HR. CONDIN: I'll submit a revise(~ site 16 plan that will show the parking. CHAIRWONF~2~ OLIVA: Generally speaking 17 we're ROE disapproving of tha whole project. MR. CONDIN: i undersEand. 18 B.DAP. D MEMBER ORL}i,~DC.: t'.[hat Mr_ Dinizio was saying, !/ou need te show cuzbing. 19 HR. CONDIN: Curbing on Lhe property? BOARD HEMBER ORLP~NDO: Yes_ 20 ,2}~AIRWOI~N OLIVA: Also landscaping and what ha%e i, ou, and grass on nile fro~, arid 21 sure the driveway thac will say entrance is there, an~ j~su go around uhe suiloing. 22 ~OARD MEHBER C~INIZIO: Can i said ask one more question? 23 CNAIRWOP~%N OLIVA: Sure _ BOARD ~qENBER ~INIZiO: I understand Ellis 24 building is schedules ~o be ~orn down, whether ~he_? do iE or ~he Tow~ does it, o~ June lsd? 25 MR. COND IN: Ye s _ BOARD ~IE?.~BER DIN±ZIO: Whau can we de ?.lay 20, 2004 79 1 2 Detween now and Jktn~ 1bE -- listen, thef cou£d have taken iE down the day after the fire as far 3 as i was concerned, as long as nhey can save the sehbacks ~ha~ hhis gentleman has_ If ~hey take 4 ~hat action and take down that building, is this gentlemarz going to be before us for a setback 5 ~ ariance? BOARD NEHBER TORTOP2~_: i don't have 6 anything from the Towf~ Board gi~ing us ~hose instructions. Do you have anything you would like 7 ts share wi~h us? BOARD MEMBER ORL~nIDO: I've heard hearsay. 8 HR. ,20NDIN: That's a fast_ BOARD MEMBER TORTOPJe: Could somebed2 give 9 us -- BO?~d%D MEMBER DINIZIO: It's none of the 10 Boards' business, really, read uhe paper, see iu. But ti~e point is, if nhey E. ear down uhat 11 building, he loses uhose setbacks_ I'm in~eresned Ln preserving those setbacks. I'm sure uhis 12 .~enEleman is too_ HR. ~ONDiN: .~b~,olut~l , . 13 BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Honestly, the ~hings ge in this town, the momen~ ~ha~ that wall 14 is not there, and ~here's a person behind ,'ou that mal, ha-~e some experience in tha~, I thillk ':~c,u're 15 ~reading en real thin ice. You're going te be ~sking for a 100 percent %ariance en i~. That 16 basically could be ~he excuse. I don't know. BOARD MEMBER C, RLAND,O: The!,~' re ienying 17 shem alread/ for those setbacks that you just menhioned, 23 and 1.3. 16 BOARD I',IEI'~I~ER DINIXIO: If he wants zo build on existing setbacks Ehey no longer exist:. 19 CHAIRWOMAN OLI~,%~: I ~hi~-~k if the Town ~sard kr~ows it is our tesire Eo work with the 2,9 applicant to approve something ,of a site plan for l'~im _ 21 BOARD [~IEHBER ORhAn?DO: Just wai~ing on more completed site plan - 22 ,2HAIRNC, N[VN OLIVA: -- and that we ha~e every in~enhion of hry'ing to work with t:he 23 epplican~ to approve_ BOARD I4EHBER DINIZIO: I jusL wanted 24 find ou~ how you guys felt about it_ I don't ~hink we need to. i don'~_ wane t~im to ~eE caugh~ 25 P~eEween 5akLng 5han b%~ildlng down, and i can see EhaL happening_ This has happened before. [,Ia5~ 2.C,, ~0,1,4 8O 1 2 BOARD I',.IE~v[BER ORLANDO: I don't know if we can sa~ k~e's FLOE going to get ,caught_ 3 BOARD HEHBER DiNIZIO: i ~gree BnL i think there's a sense here 4 ,2HAiRWO~e~,I OLiVA: C,f our in~ention_ BOARD HEHBER rORTORA: He's going ~o give 5 us a revised site plan to snow the parking and what's the nex~ date? 6 PIS. KOWALSKI: J~ne 22nd and the deadline wculd be the Friday, before the hearing would be , June 22nd, bu~ nhe deadline for ~he submission wculd be nhe Friday before, please, seven prin~s 8 o~ ~ke map. CHAIRWC,HAN OLIVA: Hake a motion ENaE we 9 are awaizing zhe revised site plan and it should be in by Ehe Friday before zhe 22nd. I Eh~[nk iz's 10 zhe 18zh of June, amd we will reschedule zl:e hearing for June 22nd. 11 [.'IR. CONDIN: As far as Eearing ic.w~ the bl~ilting I was a little confused_ 12 MS. [IDORE If I can make a comment~ on u~at, generally zoning acEions s~ays mhe action of 13 er~ enforce~nenE proceeding. Nowever, I'm hOE sure whichs~c~- ='--~h of the code they're applying. So 1% probably would be advisable for ?ou to send some cs,mmunic~ion ~o ~he Tewll Board edvising tNem - 15 ,2HAIR~'[Of,[~,Y C, LIVA: Ne will send a ietEer. MS. MOORE: - if you s~aved the 16 proceeding, Ehe prosecution of this case er wide,ever iE. is, because '.~eu're working it out with 17 him. It's lock of communication mainly end up wi~h exa.cti~,~ what Jimmy suggested. 18 MS. t{OWALSKI: Tlley [laye been sommunica~ing verbail~~ beEween ~he Ewe sfficesP 1S~ MS_ MOORE: I ~hink in writing wouli be ai"isabie. 20 CHAIRWOM2~ OLIVA: Am~iD.sd,~ in the audience thaE would wish to speak againsE r. his applicationl 21 [,IP.. S=~NIu~I: Joh~ Sawicki_ I own ~he properE5 ~e the north and east of the deli 22 Dropert5. 3~ years of traffic's been horrendous and it's worse this last ~hree years. ,Dve~ these 23 25 years, for people bo ge~ into this deli, ~he-/ either ~ark in my parking lot, Ehey're blockin9 my 24 parking lot if there's deliveries, ~lle never pull in the back of nha~ nhing. The,y p~ll 2~ ir~ ~he siie of ~haE Legion Avenue_ The-~ block my ~rivewa? Ehere_ They block access for the people May 2,3, 206,% 2 of the church. So parking is a - ~N_%IR~CNL~ OLIVA: A concern. 3 MR. SAWICKI: - a big thing here. ~dhatever you decide te do wi~h ~his property with % ~Ir. Bremer, fine, I would ask that somewhere incozlporaned is a s~ockade fence on the eas~ and S the north side~ blocking this deli off from preperE~:'. I've been burglarized maniz ~imes, 6 people come in from behind there, i've put up ?.itt it for !5 years, and I'm ~ired of pn~ting up 7 wi~h what's been happening there_ I den'~ like bis garbage disposal s}~stem sinting a fset from mI, 8 ~roperty, 20 foot from my den~al office, in ~ha summer ~ime it shir~]£s. The perishable food .goes ~ in here_ They don't clean the Goddamn ~hiF~g -- excuse me. People in the church can't 10 open ~heir windows. I can't open my win~ows. i~'s bad. Coupled with the grease coming out c.f 11 his chimney in the summer time, it hangs Ehere. If anl,-bedy here ever walked the chow hall in ~he 12 army smelled ~hat bacon, it jus~ hangs in ycur throa~ all day_ That's what happens_ I~'s not 13 just my li~tie piece of properly. IL goes ever te ~he church and ely other neighbors_ I don't know 1% where he's going to ge~ parking in the hack. Tbe_v already des~rc.~:~ed my fence that's there. That's iS v. hy I want them to pu~ ~p ~heir fenice. 2~1t i certaiF~ly would wish that as garbage container 16 goes someplace else. It's one thing if he's throwing cardboard - ~haL's other thing, he's 1~ going to ha Jo a cardboard container there, sc. ~la~'s more space Eakeli up. i'm net against him 18 having a deli there oLher than these problems, bklt i~'s no~ beneficial to the neighborhood, i can 19 ~ali you that_ So I would like ~o see his garbage sonEainer ge someplace else, and a stockade fence. 2,1, B,ORi~D MEMBER ORL:~2~DO: I4a,/be the garbage sonld be up on a more regular Sasis to eliminate 21 ~hae. i. IR. SANICKI: Nhat ' s goin.g to happen when 22 he's there? Am I going to go eu~ and blow stac}~ and get arrested? thank you. 23 CHAiR~'{OMAN OLIIrA: Thank -/ou, Hr. Sawicki. Bruno, sorry. 114 I,IR. BRUNO: Madam Chairmau and the Board I'm Bruno from the Planning Board, a senior si~e 25 planner, reviewer. Just tv~o Ehings I want Es commen~, on, you blav 2,2,, 2004- 82 1 2 .-u'~ =_ addressed some traffic issues on State Road t;= The permit is goiilg to or the Plannir~ Board ~ conditions are going to require New York State DOT appro:ai. I'm sure the applicant's in the process 4 of doing that. Host likely everything on 25 is going te be eliminated, ma~_zbe there's going to be 5 an entrance. They're in violation to DOT ~uidelines se one ef the things Etiat we're going 6 to be forced to do is deal with whatever the E,.C,'F sa/s is going to happen on 25, iu would be great '7 that it's irc si'nc with what's submieted to you whether or not there wiil even be an entrance or 8 -z.n~' parking, I believe the entire paved area is going to ~lave to go away with some curbing a~d 9 other issues. Just for the record. ~H.~_IRWO?~t'~N OLIVA: Thank you, Bruno_ i' 11 10 make a motion that we will adjourn this hearing until June 22nd_ 11 {See minutes for reseiution. ~ CHAIRWC, MC~/,~ OLiVA: Just a reminder 12 Debra Victoroff is being canceled unuil June 22nd_ ~.~e minutes for resolution., CHAIRNOMAN OLIVA: The next eFze is 14 MaE~-a-I,Iar NariNa. The5' wish to construct a new building for the purpose ef storing boats. 1S NS. MC, ORE: Thank you, bIadam hh=lrm~n, Patricia Moore_ i have i4r. 'and Hrs. Raynor here 16 ~odal-, and hopefull'~, we can answer any ques~iorls that might come up_ 17 'Fha site plan, which I have submitted to ~ne Board acEua]i5, does a good job in the 18 JepictioFz of what is intended here. This is an existing marina with an existing beau sue, rage 19 ~uiliing wl~icl~ the o~.~,ners would like to enlarge put Ehe activities than are presently beinp 2,2, conducted in that same area inside the building. In order te accomplish the repairs and the bsat 21 storage ~_he bnilding has been designed in such a way that iE will be a continuation ef the existing 22 building. ,{i'HAIRWOP,,~ll,i OLiVA: ~.~t~h~d to it, Pet? 23 I.iS. NIt, ONE: AtEached to it, _.,'ss. iz will be its own strueture because surucUurail_ r ~on~'~ ' 24 think /on're attaching to the existing structure_ So it will be wall to wail. The office will be 25 incorporated into the proposed addition, eno it will be replacing the existing office and shop and May 20, 2004 83 1 2 some storage containers than are presently on the ~roperny, so essenniall5r cleaning up all the 3 acti?ities winhin this new strucnure. The variance is required due to the fact 4 that the ei~isning boat storage building predates the setbacks no the bulkhead and is at 65 feet and = beca~se of the angle of the bulkhead, I g~ess ~he bulkhead, uno person who built uhe bulkhead didn't 6 ha_~e a level as it goes towards the west, in angles back slightly. So in gees from its 7 easternmost point at 62 feet to the bulkhead a~ld au its easUernmost point, the closest point being 8 58.5 feet from the bulkhead. I've giLen p'ou a sur%ey ~hat gives nba exact measurements_ o This project is before the Planning Boar~. It has been referred to the Hat~ituck Fire 10 DistricE. TRe Mattinuck Fire Distri.ut, I'll give iu to you for your records, responded with jusu 11 cnn comment, which is to install a hydran5 on the shreen a5 the Suffolk County Water }~thority main; 12 ss there will be a water hydrant ~ere for firematic purposes_ Amd the Town Trustees have 13 approved this strucnure as it's bee~u proposed, and ~nat appro_al was granted Jana~ary 21, 2004_ The 14 project is also before the DE,2 for review, and it's in ~ne process of being reviewed b~~ that 15 agenc!~. it is also being re~iewed by Health DeDar~ment and because the sanitary sysuems are 16 going bs Oe replaced when the new structure is constructed. Let me put in l~our file these two, 17 tile letter from the Ma~nituck Fire DistricL and ~e To,~n Prustees' approval so 5~ou ha~ze a 18 sempieteO file. Ne have submiEte~ to the Beard some 19 phctegraphs tha~ decrement to a certain extent what is occurring on nhe property already. The 20 pho~ograpns that are nu~ere{ 1 and 2 shows that n~e area nhat is now ~eing proposed at tne 21 aCdi~ien is housing the storage of winter boats, some of them are shrink wrappe~ some are Rot, an~ 22 any boating activity, an}, repairs are going on inside tha~ same urea. 23 Let's see, there's some other photographs in Fo~r file, Photograph 3 ~hat was pro~ide~ te 24 you snows ~he look of the existing building, which is a nice clean building for a boa~ s~orage 2~ building, it's tidi~. Photographs %, 5 and 6 shows the existing office building and ~he setbacks of May 20, 200e 1 2 where iE's going to be iricorporaued into Ehe r~ew building as an office space, and Pho~ograph 8 is 3 the existing building, again, in the area where nhe expansion is goin9 bs occur is wha~ :~eu see 4 from the wes~ side of the propar~y. NS. KOWALS~:I: Are the photos labeled for MS. MOORE: Yes_ The%_' are airead~:' in your 6 packet and already numbered. For the record it u=s~r~h=~ what's going on here. 7 We'd like to discuss any i~eas you ha~.e. i know uha~ Ehe Planning Board had sent you some 8 csmments abou~ the site plan_ Obviously nhe si~e glan is early in nhe design s~ages_ We r~eed your 9 variance ~efere ~',,e can tweak the final version ef uhe sine plan. ,One of nhe issues nhat was raised 10 h-:- nhe Planning Board which is a goc. d commenE and we are innending to address it, and mighE acEually 11 be addressed here, nile nraffic circulation than comes elf Wickham Avenue and goes towards nhe 12 seunh, te uhe left of the building, takes you to the parking area along the bulkhead, ~hat was a 13 concern, well, two issues. One was fire access around ~[le bu{lding, which we uhink we can sol 14 just hv a fire lane alc. ng the south side of tt~e building. We don't have one there now, bun we can 1S , make a provision for maintaining clear access. CHAIRWOH~I OLI\%~_: Iu's only 10 feen, 16 righn? r,[S. MOORE = I, lo. You have 62 feet, !,'ou Ii have abc. un 16 feet. I get these measurements frsm Yhe archinect. If you start aU. nhe bulkhead, 18 have about 18 feet of landscaping, then the parking space is 20 feen in length, and it leaves 19 about 27 feet to the edge of the buildi~g. So that's ceruai£~ly adequate access for vehicles 20 going in and out. ½~_IRNoM.~_N OLIVA: Then there would be 21 enough turnaround space at the west side af the kuilding for say Uurnaround for these large fire 22 ~ ' HS. ~,IumR~= l~s, if i could come up. om =.I~=b~ whan'~ misleading are those retaining walls 'those renaining walls are going to be remo-~e{. 2% There's no reEaining walls on the final ;ersion of uhe site plan. What _/ou're going to have is 25 graded einher gravel or blacknop access around the entire buildi~g so ahere will Se access around Ehe May 20, 20,1,4 1 2 entire building from ease eo wast, norEh to souLh_ ~'.~ith respect to private cars, you and I going in ~-. there, one though~ we had was to limit ~he a ...... cf ~he private vehicles to however number of 4 s~aces we can land bank on ~he sc.u~h side of Eta hnilding. And what we ~hough~ was possibly 5 eliminating those 20 spaces startir~g from ~he iefE ant working your way out to the right, from west 6 tc east. If I come up forward, I ~hink it migh~ ~e easier_ Here's the parking area en ~he south 7 s i de. C~AIRWOMAN OLIV}~: But ~here are bea~s 8 ~here now. You store win~er boa~s. LIR. MOORE: Ne wouldn't be able to 9 The sLorage will replace all ti~e storage ce Ehe site as i~'s presenEly being operated_ 10 Wha~ you're going no have is ~hea.~-~_~ sf the cars coming iz~, ~hey can come in here and a 11 cul-de sac of some ~5~pe, it's r~et goin~ ~.s be with ~ barrier because we want to main~azn adequane 12 ~ccess Ehroughout the 24 hours a day ever,, da/ cf ~he wee}~_, but it will limit, it will say no 13 passing beyond ~his point give ~he epportuniEy for somebodlz Eo Eulrn around and nome back out So 14 Eheir ingress.,egress for Ehe south side parking area will be stric;tiy limited, se you don'~ 15 uhe ~raffic traveling all the..~'a-.~ around and in a sense inEerfering with the forklifEs and the 16 ~s~i-ritf of Ehe boat yard EhaE occurs a~ Ehe ~zan== of the new building_ 17 Also we'd like te suggesn ~o nhe Planning Board land banking these spaces along Ehe west 18 side of ~he marLna because that tea seems be somewha~ i~Eerfering with ~he activities tha~ 19 are planned for the standard beaning acnivities, ~ha marina activity than cccur. So we'd like tc 20 keep ~his area open without parking_ The parking as shown, because iE shows than ~here' s cerEaini-/ 21 ade~-iuate parking for this use and for all the proNosed uses, what we would hope is than Ehe 22 Planning Board applies some common sense on how ranch parking we acEually need ~o build out_ When 23 i asked the Raynors abou~ ~he winter and summer parking needs, reail,: uhe parking at this psint in 2~ Ehe summer, in the high summer monuhs, is really s.n Ella north side where it sa,?~ marina parking, 25 an.~ iL's gravel righ~ now. Right nov] Ehere are temperer~, beaE racks seared, and the ar~'m zNae is Hai, 20, 2004 1 2 around the restaurant ~±d= from shat, shore realiI is no other parking, share's no demand for 3 paris_lng; there's always adequaUe parking The}' have shown a great deal more parking that we hope 4 the,/'il be as successful as uhis plan shows. So with respec~ ue some of ~he Planning ~ Bcard issues, we could put in a fire lane and we woul,~ like to limiE some ef the activity all mhe 6 way around she building. WhaE else? ,Dh, the other commenE the ,v Plai!ning Board had was handicapped accessible parking spaces. Those are already shown here. 8 they are marked with a "H". They are large spots_ Thei, are shown as wider spaces. The architect 9 fei~ ~here was so much writing, se much ~c~i~rihy on this plan he was ~rying to limit the amount of 10 writing oN, but if the Planning Board wallts us he identify t:hem a liuule more clearly, we can do 11 that_ I'Ie've already made provisieIls for handicap accessibility. 12 Also, asphal~ area is limited. Any uime -ou have a marina by ~he water, the DEC ~iso 1.3 inten~isnaily limits ~he amounts of non-pervious materials. Se we're going to have the h~ndicapped 14 parking spaces in ~he area where ~he biacktcp will be ccn~inued. I%ere's blacktop there now and 15 we're going ~o continue wi~h ~he black~sp after %he renovations. The marina parking on ~he 16 nor~heast side, again, where the temporary boat racks are, that's gravel pervious materials and 1',' we'd like to keep i~ ~hat way. Do 'you ha~e an':' specific quesZiens ? 18 CHAIRWOH~i'~ OLiVA: Jim? BC, ARD MEMBER DiNIZIO: Ne. I i.eoked a~ 19 the notice of disapproval. It'=~ only for the feet:. 20 idS_ MJOR~: iEs the existing setback that's being maintained. 21 ~}I~D MEI,[BER DINIZIO: Right I wan~ ~r!' to appi_v Walz Ee it. 22 MS. HOC, RE: Net this time. BOARD MEMBER DINiZIO: iE seems like i~'s 23 increasing a nonconformity. MS. Me, e,P_E i'11 let '?on grapple with 24 those issues inuernally. BOARD HEMBER DINIZiO: i see_ I think 2~ Eha~ the building is much beeuer ~han what you have ~here now_ I mean, I guess the rack storage May 2,3, 200% 87 1 2 is going Uo stay? MS. MOORE: What's going to happen is 3 those racks are for some ef the smaller boats. MR_ RAYNOR: T~ev're remoT~ed for the 4 summertime _ [,IS. MOORE: Purely seasonal. 5 BOARD HEHBER DINIZIO: You're not losing an,: snorage outside other than where the builiing 6 is going to be? NS . MOORE: I'lo. 7 BOARD HEHBER DINiZIO: You're no~ going add any more rack storage outside? 8 MS_ MOORE: No. CHAI RWO1,L~2.i OLiVA: L~:~dia ? 9 BOARD MEMBER TORTONA: No, I don't have a~;-. questions_ 10 ,JHAI RWOP~i2I C, LIVA: Yincen~ ? BOARD HEMBER ORL_~JIDO: Just a quick iiEEie 11 sum up. The south side parking will now become sutside winter storage? 12 HS. MC, OR~: ThaE's nee ute intention, sorrecE? 13 MR. RAYNC, R: Correct_ MS_ P4OOR~: Is there a b,u~ Eo 14 MR. P~_YNOR: ThaE's mainly used for the marina parking. 15 [,IS. [,'IOORE: It's not boat storage? MR. PSaYNOR: No. 16 NS. HOC, RE: Then the answer is ns. BOARD HEMBER ORL}2[DO: Just a 17 ~eu went through a lot of gfra~ion with us for 15 feet, is there a~y reason whl~ ~i=ou didn't just 18 shove up ~he building a couple feet and meet uhe ~B feet? 19 PIS. ~4OORE: Two reasons. One is i~atching tP~e building to the existing building we'll realP: 20 lose some space. Yo~'re going ~o lose about 10 feet, i'cu could offseE it. Se that being Eke 21 functional aspect of Ehe building is somewhat undermined. ' ~,=u-r= also pushing uhe building 22 cicser Eo the north, and uhere are scme nice landscaping ~here between the restauran~ and r~he ~ buildings right now, we'd eliminate a grea~ deal ms. re laudscaping.~_~- we push cue 10 feet, the 24 parking gets pushed oue 10 feet and you're gushing closer to the resuaurant building_ Iu's kind of 25 nice the way it's set up, you're isolating ~he ]seating, ~he marina, the boat repair irom the 20, 2004 1 2 restaurant, and we thought i~ was worth seeking a variance to try ~o preserve to the extent possible 3 the landscaping Ei~aE we Uon't ha, re to change p©s~-consEruc~ion. 4 BOARD MEMBER ORL_Z~DO: I was curious_ ~d picture Nu~er 8, the access to the ol~ boat 5 storage is going ~o be the same side on the west siie of the constm~uction as well? 6 HS. HOORE: Yes. It will match wha~ is .2urrennl¥ t~eze as an opening_ 7 BOARD MEMBER ORLY2{DO: You' re going to remeye this wall, make i~ eno big, huge astrodome S inside there, or are You going to keep those walls? 9 HR. RP~fNC, R: Ii'm r. orn between the two. it really boils down to the engineers, whan 5hey tell 10 me. biS. MOORE: Strucr. urally whether or no5 11 they need that wall or Ehey don't. BOARD HEHBER ORLAiqDO: Those were 12 ch~riosi5i- questions. No other questions. CHAIRWC,MD2,? OLIIIA: Is ~here ai~ybody in ~he 13 audience that has any addisions er corrections er commenes ~o ma]ce on nhis application? If not, 14 I'i1 make a motion te close ~he nearing and reserve Oecision un~il later. 15 ISee minutes for resolutions.? 16 CMAIRWO[',~}I.I OLiVA: I need a me,ion to pcs~pone the A_x_lerod hearing to possib£~~ Jur~e 22nd 17 a~ }:35 a.m. (See minutes for resolutions. ~ CHAIRWOP~2i,~ OLiVA: I'il make a monion to 19 adjour~ tha public hearings_ {See minutes for resolutioli.) 20 iTime ended: 2:30 p.m.'} 21 22 23 24 25 May 20, 2004 89 1 2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 3 4 I, Florence V. Wiles, Notary Public for the 5 State of New York, do hereby cerEify: 6 THAT the wiuhin transcripE is a true record of 7 ~ne testimony given. 8 I further cer~ifv tha~ I am ne~ related by 9 blood or marriage, to any of ute parties ~o uhis 10 acEion; and 11 THAT I am in no way interesued in ~e suUcome 12 of ~is matter. 13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have here~nEo see 14 ~and this 20th day of Hay, 2004_ lb 16 17 18 Florence V_ Wiles 19 20 21 22 23 25 May 20, 2004