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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-10/14/1999-S SPECIAL MEETING SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OCTOBER 14, 1999 9:00 A.M. CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING ON ALL LOCAL LAWS TO CHANGE THE ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION. Present: Supervisor Jean W. Cochran Councilwoman Alice J. Hussie Councilman William D. Moore Councilman John M. Romanelli Councilman Brian G. Murphy f f Town Clerk Elizabeth A. Neville Town Attorney Gregory F. Yakaboski f f f Absent: Justice Louisa P. Evans SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I would like to open the Public Hearing on the proposed zoning map changes on Route 48, Southold. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: how does that work? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It's a Special Meeting. At the conclusion of the hearing, we certainly could take it from... COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: The point is, though, that this hearing is continued because it was proposed that the code changes would have been adopted on Tuesday and the people who are here to talk would be able to talk about their property in relation to the new code changes - and we haven't done that. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Well, then we can remember it from the day. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: And then we can vote? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes. Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Two TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: A second ago you started the Public Hearing. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes, I did. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: To have the vote - usually you would have to adjourn from the Public Hearing back into the Special Meeting. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: I worked on this all night. I figured that was what we would have to do but it's so clumsy. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: No, its just... SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I would like to recess the meeting - recess the hearing. Excuse me. Now we're out of the hearing. Are we not?° TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Correct. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: And what do we have to do to make ourselves into a Regular Board Meeting? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We're in a Regular Board Meeting now. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: OX - in which case,l move the motion of last Tuesday. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You are removing the motion from the table? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Is there a second to remove it from the table? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: I'll second to remove it from the table. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: May we have a vote on the removal? TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Romanelli? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Yes. COUNCILMAN MOORE: Yes. Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Three COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Resolution adopted. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Now we will go to the main motion. Do we have a copy of it so we can hear it again? Thank you. John, do you want to start with the first one? Let's go according to time, please - in the way they were presented on the agenda - the last agenda. The first one is the Local Law in relation to the LB District - changes in the LB District. t COUNCILMAN JOHN ROMANELLI: I'm going to read the changes in the proposed LB District and I'm going to start with the Purpose of the LB District. The purpose of the Limited Business District is to provide an opportunity to accommodate limited. Hold on - yes, George? GEORGE PENNY: I believe that normally before resolutions are acted on, residents are given a chance to... SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: If you'd like. GEORGE PENNY: I'm just recalling a procedure. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Let's have it read first and then I will ask in relation to this resolution. GEORGE PENNY: Do you have an agenda? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: No. Would you like an agenda? We'll stop and we'll print one. GEORGE PENNY: If we had an agenda, we'd know what resolutions we want to speak on. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: All right, then we'll recess. The Town Board is recessed until an agenda is printed. Let's go do an agenda. By law, legally, we don't have to do an agenda, George. J Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Four The Town Board Meeting of October 15 - excuse me, October 14, 1999, 9:00 a.m. - would you all please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It appears here, the Special Town Board Meeting was set, I believe, at the Town Board Meeting on Tuesday and we also set the Regular Board Meeting on Tuesday so those have already been resolutions voted upon. As you know, the Town Board has a policy that we invite you to give any input you may have in relation to any of the resolutions. So, at this time I will ask if there are any comments or anything you would like to share with us in relation to Resolution Number 1? Mr. Penny? GEORGE PENNY: The Local Law for Limited Business - 1-understand there were petitions that were rendered pursuant to Article 265 of the Town Law or State Law - whatever it is. Has a determination been made by the attorney as to the validity of that petition? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes. Greg? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Yes, the petitions were submitted. Its up to the Board. In my opinion, the burden is on the Petitioner or Petitioners to show that they meet the criteria set forth in the State Law and Section 265 of the Town Law. The degree of the petitions - this is really a call for the Board. In reading the petitions, you cannot tell on their face whether or not the criteria is met. The Board has the option of rejecting the petitions and moving forward or if there was a super majority vote, which on this Board is five members, it wouldn't matter if there was a petition involved or not. Its up to the Board - whether or not to reject those petitions that are at hand. Right now, I could spend a lot of time trying to figure it out - calculations. I don't have it - from what was given to me, George. GEORGE PENNY. I never saw those petitions so I don't know what is missing. What do you feel is missing? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: There are three criteria - I believe Mr. Lizewski is in the audience today. When I asked him the other night, it was under the first criteria which is 20% of the ownership of the actual land in the LB District. Is that correct, Joe? OX In looking at the petitions, George - does it show? The easiest thing to do is show how much land is in the LB and whether or not they own LB land or whether or not it all totals up to more than 20%. It's not here. It's up to the Board. Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14199 - Page Five GEORGE PENNY: OX Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Mr. Lizewski? JOSEPH LIZEWSKI: I'd like to present the Board with some more petitions and some more names. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thanks, Joe. Legal Counsel has recommended we take the vote first and then we will look at these petitions in relation to how it's submitted. Did you hear me? Did you hear what I said? Legal Counsel has determined we can take the vote first before we determine this. Would anyone else like to address the Town Board in relation to the amendments to the Limited Business Zoning Code in the Town of Southold? DELORES PRINCIPI: Good morning. I'm Delores Principi and I have Limited Business and I have submitted my family s petitions so I hope that's included in the 20°x6. 1 brought it to your office last week - the three of them. I gave it to your office. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It's in the Change of Zone file. That's in relation to the zoning map, is it not? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: I believe so. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: This is in relation to the uses. DELORES PRINCIPI: The uses. OX Question: what I'd like to know is if you should for some reason - I hope that you don't change our parcel to R-80 - and we have one acre - do we have to go through a variance? Can we put a house on this? Are we restricted? What is going to happen to our parcels? My brother has one acre. I have two and three-quarter acres and I would want to know how you're going to handle this - if you're going to turn it into Residential? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Gregory? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: May I, Supervisor? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes, you certainly may. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Ms. Principi? Special Town Board Meetina - 10/14/99 - Page Six DELORES PRINCIPI: Yes. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: With respect to you, if we went to R-80, let's say, your one acre lot would be a pre-existing nonconforming lot and there is a separate Bulk Schedule in the Town Code, Zoning Code that would be applied - area, height, width, things like that - setbacks. If you came in for a home and it met those areas - setbacks - the variance would not be needed. If you wanted to exceed those setbacks, then you would need a variance. DELORES PRINCIPI: So, my question also is - and it's just hearsay - I don't know how factual it is - is that if my brother doesn't meet the requirements of two acres and he has to go and buy property - that's not so? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: That's not so. That's an incorrect statement. DELORES PRINCIPI: OX Now, on my two and three-quarter acres that is Limited Business, I can get one house on it only? If you change it to R-80? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: One home. DELORES PRINCIPI: One home on two and three-quarter acres? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Correct. Following the Nonconforming Bulk Schedule. Two and three-quarter acres... DELORES PRINCIPI: Mine is two and three-quarter acres of Limited Business now which was Business and now down to one residential acre. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: There are some other uses in the R-80. I'm sure you've looked at it. DELORES PRINCIPI: Yes. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: In answer to your question, without a variance it would be one home without doing a subdivision. DELORES PRINCIPI: OX At one of your meetings you had said... SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: May I have it quiet, please, so we can hear the speaker? Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Seven DELORES PRINCIPI: At one point in time, you were going to add to the Limited Business - which I hope you leave my piece zoned as Limited Business - tennis and golf? Is that so or did you retract that? It was in the paper that it was discussed and said that you would leave it on there instead of Commercial Industrial? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: I'm sorry. I was reading something and didn't hear your question. DELORES PRINCIPI: At one of your meetings, I brought up that we are working on a project to do miniature golf and, at that time, I was told that you could only put it In a Commercial Industrial Zoning which I feel is not the best use for children and adults, etc. You discussed it at one of your meetings here, and it was in the paper as well, that you were going to add that use to Limited Business. Is this still so or did you retract that? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: We haven't done that. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: It's not added. DELORES PRINCIPI: It's not added. Are you going to add it? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Not at this time. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Not at this time. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Not today. DELORES PRINCIPI: Not today. I could go for a variance if my property stays Limited Business to have that use added to it? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Yes, you could. DELORES PRINCIPI: Thank you again for your time. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You're welcome. Would anyone else like to address the Town Board in relation to the first resolution? If not, we'll have the vote. O.K, no, I'm going to do this the same way I do it at other Board meetings. Would anyone else like to speak in relation to any of the other resolutions? Sir? This gentleman first and then I'll take you. HERBERT ADLER: I'm Herb Adler. I'm on the Landmark Commission and I'm talking in relation to the RO... Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Paae Eight COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Talk into the mike. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would you please say your name again? HERBERT ADLER: Herb Adler. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Herb Adler. HERBERT ADLER: I'm on the Landmark Commission. I haven't talked to anybody else about this but I thought I should come here. I appreciate the efforts of the Board to do creative reuse of property to preserve the ambiance of the Town but I do feel that there are things that worry me especially in the amendment to the use of the Residential Office District and especially I'm going to talk to the Historical District as it relates to them. I ri can I know that Government can, Local, State and National, can change things as they go along. What worries me is what we do today will be undone in the coming years and down the way and people just don't have a chance to plan long term with regard to things. That's a fact of life and just what I call morality of government. Getting down to some of the more specific things, I noticed that in the proposal as we talk about the Historic District, the Landmark Commission is in no point involved in what decisions are made in that district. And 1 think that maybe, while the Landmark Commission has no powers, it would be nice to at least have them concerned in what goes on in those areas which they are involved with. I'll try to make this brief. I'm a little concerned about the broadening to include small business offices such as insurance agencies, real estate. If you want these businesses, I agree that they are perfect businesses for these districts but you want them to grow and if they grow, they will outgrow it. There is limited space. Especially in the Landmark District I do not see that there is adequate parking facilities available. Deliveries would be a problem and I. just wonder if these kind of things should be encouraged because you would have to get variances along the way. I don't think its fair to promote things if you want growth and we do want concerns to grow in the area. I feel that we should give it a little more consideration. I'm also concerned within that I've heard rumors that what happened to Route 25, there are going to be changes down the road in the way that traffic flows and how this would affect something like the Historic District. I do not know if this is a fact but I heard rumors. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: They will be blacktopping with blacktop or asphalt that is more nonskid in wet weather. They may be changing some of the traffic patterns. We've met with the DOT on more than one occasion. They have told Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Paae Nine us in form terms that there will be no widening of the highway. This is something that we will not stand for so they are going to be developing different traffic patterns. For instance, they wanted to put six turning lanes in the Village of Cutchogue alone which we fought against. We would like people to slow down through the villages; not speed up the traffic. So, that's been our philosophy in meeting with them and we're holding firm on that and working with the Transportation Committee. No, it will be blacktopped. It will not be widened in any respect. HERBERT ADLER: Will they be eliminating parking on one side of the street? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: There was some they had proposed. I don't think there's anything through here. Cutchogue is pretty much as it was. They pretty much went with the Transportation Committee's recommendations. If you'd like detailed information, we certainly will get it for you. We've kept an eye on that. HERBERT ADLER: I appreciate that. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: May I just have a clarification - are you speaking on behalf of the Landmark Committee or are you here as a private individual? HERBERT ADLER: I'm here as a private individual speaking as a member of the Landmark Commission. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: But you're not speaking on behalf of the committee? HERBERT ADLER: No, I'm not. I don't think Its fair to do that. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: OX Thank you, Herb. HERBERT ADLER: In relation to library uses, I think we should have those uses here and things like that but, again, there's limited access to the Landmark District. 1 thought they should be allowed to do it in that area. I guess that's one of the problems. I'm also worried about custom workshops. As I look at that, I could have a shop that worked on cars - customizing cars. I don't see any definition of custom workshops. COUNCILMAN MOORE: That's a separate section of the Code - there's a definition of custom workshop. There's a definition in the beginning of the Zoning Code. When that came out, we looking exactly at that very point. HERBERT ADLER: It does exclude cars? Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Paae Ten COUNCILMAN MOORE: Yes, sir. HERBERT ADLER: What would be included? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Want me to read it? I have it right here. Custom Workshop: "A business premises used for the making of clothing, millinery, shoes or other personal articles to individual order or measure, for sale at retail on the premises only and not including the manufacture of machinery, vehicles, appliances and similar heavy goods and ready-to-wear or standardized products." HERBERT ADLER: What word is furniture? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: You're right - doesn't say anything about furniture. You're right. HERBERT ADLER: I'll just make one other comment. This is a very personal comment. Everybody wants to restrict the architecture in Town to what they have and I think we should look for the future to have architects do the creative work so that it blends with the Town and, as the laws read, they couldn't even do that. I feel that that's something that we should put ourselves into the Twentieth Century with property. That's personal. Nothing to do with anybody else. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: OX Thank you very much, Herb. Sir, I said I'd take you next. DOCTOR ARNOLD URIST: Ladies and gentlemen of the Board and fellow Southold patriots, my name is Dr. Arnold Urist. I have a medical practice on Love Lane by the railroad tracks and 1 have a couple of questions. The proposal is to shift me from Light Industry to Residential Office. In our building, we rent the upstairs. We have a one-bedroom apartment. Its a rental that brings in income. Under the change from Light Industry to RO, will I still be able to have a tenant? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Its residential, yes. DR. URIST: I can rent? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes. DR. URIST: If I sell and transfer the property, can the new owners tear down and gut the present building to put up another structure like a workshop or a little Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Eleven office building. What about that? Do new owners have the right to drastically amend it or tear it down and put up a new building? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLi: if they keep a residential office or an office in the building, you can tear it down and rebuild it, sure. As long as they keep the use similar to what Residential Office allows. DR. URIST: What about a small workshop within what was just read? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: A custom workshop is allowed in that zone as a Special Exception. DR. URIST: With the new zoning, I have patients - a lot of them who can't walk or in wheelchairs or use walkers and canes - they can't walWtoo far. Will new parking regulations impede on that aspect of my practice? COUNCILMAN MOORE: Whatever your present situation is is what you will have; it will stay the same. You exist and were there so its not going to add a burden on your operation. DR. URIST: Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You're welcome. BARBARA SZCZOTKA: I'm Barbara Szcaotka. I have a couple questions. If you are going to vote on this today, Mr. Murphy is not present and Ms. Evans is not present... SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: True. BARBARA SZCZOTKA: Can I ask why? And shouldn't they be here? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Everybody is responsible for themselves, number one. Number two, there are times in our lives that there are conflicts. The complete hearing is transcribed. They can read it as well as sit here and listen. True, its better to be here because you get the feel that goes along with the written text. Mr. Murphy had a meeting he could not reschedule. He said he would try to be here between 10:00-10:30 a.m. at the latest. Mrs. Evans has a family and with the travel, she wasn't able to make connections so she wasn't able to come over today, She doesn't always come over for Special Meetings. Soecial Town Board Meeting - 10/14199 - Page Twelve BARBARA SZCZOTKA My other question is - when we get to the vote on the RO District, is Mr. Moore going to abstain from the vote since he is in the RO District? COUNCILMAN MOORE: No, I'm not going to recuse myself on that. If we had to enact any kind of zoning code or any kind of piece of property code, any one of us who happens to own a piece of property couldn't vote on that whether it was R-40, R-80, AC or otherwise. I looked into some legal opinions on that as far as any kind of a conflict and there is none because it doesn't relate specifically to my property as I'm saying: Look, we're going to rezone me from one to the other. BARBARA SZCZOTKA: The uses will affect it. COUNCILMAN MOORE: True. I operate my business there presently. JODY ADAMS: I'm Jody Adams and I guess the thing that the gentleman from the Historical District raised - he didn't ask you what is a machine shop by definition. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: It was custom workshop. JODY ADAMS: Well, it's the same line. Custom Workshop and Machine Shop. Page Two, 1(a). COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Ms. Adams, you're looking at the Limited Business. JODY ADAMS: I probably am. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Does it say LB or Limited Business? JODY ADAMS: Yes, so workshops and machine shops are not in the one that he was discussing? OX TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Ms. Adams, there's not a set definition in the Code. It's been dealt with before by both the Building Department and, I believe, the ZBA JODY ADAMS: OX Let me speak briefly, generally about what I consider a problem in Southold which this may relate to. I happen to have a unit at the self- storage place near Town Hall and they have now three businesses and one of them is an auto type repair and they all deal with odors, noise... In relation to these, I understand they meet the zoning. Now, I believe this is what - minor industrial as opposed to LB? Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Thirteen COUNCILMAN MOORE: Light Industrial Zone. A heavier zone than Limited Business Zone. JODY ADAMS: How does a machine shop differ from this minimal auto repair shop - what is it potentially creating? They're very near you incidentally so you might be serious about this. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: We don't have a written definition of a machine shop, per say, but if I can just interject my limited knowledge of that sort of thing, I would think that it would be a business that makes small machine parts of metal. JODY ADAMS: Yes, like the one over on Route 48. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Right, and that's a Machine Shop. JODY ADAMS: I'm very concerned that Southold Town has no control whatsoever on excessive auto emissions, on the disposal of various chemicals from similar shops. I think that this type of machine shop could create these problems. You can refer this to the Department of Health and take these things away from you so you don't have to gain responsibility for it and yet the people visiting here are going to begin to inhale this stuff and I wish you would think about it and consider it. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Would anyone else like to address the Board in relation to any of the resolutions? Tyler? TYLER CORNELL: I'm Tyler Cornell on behalf of Ruth Enterprises and the Cornell Family. I rushed down here today for, what I heard through the grapevine, was another hearing on input from the public on the Cramer Study and how it would affect our properties. Unfortunately, I haven't to make the beginning of any of the meetings and never seen an agenda before for any of these meetings. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: They've been here. TYLER CORNELL: I believe that they ve been here. I just haven't been able to get down in time. As I look at the agenda, I see a number of resolutions to enact the laws and I don't see any mention of the Cramer Study which is why I thought I was down here. Although, it does look like everything of these resolutions of laws to be enacted directly affect the Cramer Study. I was wondering why I don't know about any of this stuff and I would like to request, considering we're Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Fourteen spending thousands of dollars to give input and to get down here - it seems somewhat ridiculous on our behalf to have to do this so I would like to formally request, in the form of a certified letter, a complete schedule of anything and everything concerning the Cramer Study and when and what will be happening so that we can formally prepare for each one of the meetings. I have people who stop in the office to let us know. I'm missing out on a job right now up the island which could be benefiting the Town by bringing more money down here. I was here until 12:00 at night on Tuesday. I'm living my life down here when I should actually be trying to make some money for my family and the Town. This has really gotten out of hand. So, can I have the record state that I would like to have a full schedule, by certified mail, of everything that relates to this study? Is that a yes? COUNCILMAN MOORE: what action and what's taking place at the next meeting and the purpose of today's meeting was to continue the hearings on the zone change applications. We tabled it Tuesday night after the Public Hearings on the code changes and a motion was made that those be tabled. That's why you have those four resolutions. TYLER CORNELL: If I was out working trying to support my family and I wasn't here to hear that, how would I know? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It's noticed in the newspaper. COUNCILMAN MOORE: And anyone can call Town Hall to ask what's on the agenda for any meetings. TYLER CORNELL: There are no phones necessarily in an industrial site and, although the paper is very good, it gives what - three days, four days notice to schedule a job that may have twenty guys on it - that has to be done by a certain time period or there are penalties and losses that have to be taken. Its a little bit tough to schedule an entire business around a meeting that gets thrown up in the air on Tuesday night or maybe the Tuesday before. And I don't mean to complain but you've got to understand. Almost everybody here is failing under the same circumstances. The Town is getting hurt very badly by loss of income, loss of work, loss of productivity across the board. Not just your board, but ours. So, i would request a formal... SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Tyler, we notice legally what we have to notice. I'm sure you can certainly appreciate that we cannot,on every given topic in the Town, send a certified letter to residents. We're hopeful that they will look in the paper for what government is doing. We're hopeful that you would feel Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Pape Fifteen comfortable in picking up the phone and calling the Town Clerk or the Supervisor's Office. I just don't see the logistics of it. TYLER CORNELL: Do you see the logistics of us trying to get down here? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes, I do. I can appreciate that. I can. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Mr. Cornell, if 1 may - part of this is part of what appears to be a bit of confusion on motions that I made on Tuesday evening at 1:00. We were going to consider the four laws that are before you now. I moved to table those - table the motion to enact those laws. The reason was that we really hadn't discussed anything about the input that we had heard at the Public Hearings. This morning we were reconvened for continuation of the hearings of the 4th, 5th and 6th - the Cramer Study Zone Map Changes. As you recall, those hearings were continued to this morning at 9:00, based on the fact that we would know what the new code changes were going to be. And that's-why we're here in this position right now. Because those code changes have to be solidified - yea or nay - before the people who are here with their various concerns can speak knowledgeably about the impact that they might have. TYLER CORNELL: Sure and I can understand that completely but at 12:00 1 had already missed two conference calls while I was here just to hear something like that and the biggest reason that I come is to find out what the heck is going on and when I have to get down here. I got here late because we're trying to set up a job. I wasn't here at the beginning of it and it just seems to me that if that's happening to me, it must be happening to a lot of people in the Town that this directly affects and I wanted to get it on the record and ask the Town to, in the future, find a better way to notify the people of their retirement funds being taken away and things of that sort. The second thing - and I wasn't going to talk about any of this but we've got to do it - at least its on the paper - was that I do have an agenda. I read the policy and it kind of makes all my efforts seem worthless. If you read the policy it says 'At scheduled Town Board Meetings, the attending public is encouraged to briefly address the Town Board relating to agenda resolutions prior to their enactment...'. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: That's what you're doing. We haven't done the vote yet. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: There are times when we have resolutions on that are definitely noncontroversial and then we do have some that are controversial and there are many times when we get input from the public and some of the points must be considered in which case we might not move the resolution. ,Special Town Board Meetinq - 10/14/99 - Page Sixteen TYLER CORNELL: I can see that that was the main reason for it but the word enactment, doesn't that mean to enact? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Or not. If we hear things that say that we really shouldn't be doing this at this time then we do not enact it. TYLER CORNELL: OX It just seems that everything in the writing says that it will be enacted. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: We have, in the past, not enacted something when we hear public input that we think definitely deserves a lot of consideration. TYLER CORNELL: OX The main reason that I was here was to read into the record a letter from my father, Clifford Cornell, and to submit-that letter. Should that be done later? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes, once we get back to the hearing. Right now we're talking in relation to the resolutions that are on the agenda. TYLER CORNELL: OX Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Good morning. PAULINE PHARR: Good morning. Pauline Pharr. We are looking at the changes in LB and RO - if I read those correctly, no retail is allowed in RO and very limited retail is allowed in LB. Only a winery or a nursery or if you consider a custom workshop or a machine shop a retail use. This is being done prior to our enacting the Cramer Study. If we enact the Cramer Study, we are going to take out a lot of LB and RO property as well as business property. Where is retail supposed to go? Is there room on the downtown corridors of our towns to accommodate all of this retail or potential retail that can't go anywhere else. I'm thinking about this because I sat through the hearing on Mr. Mullen which was such a hard thing to decide. I thought well what is Mr. Mullen to do if he outgrows his lot - where is he to go? If we are taking away all of the empty business property on 48 that's zoned B, he can't go there. Are there other B properties? I think the problem here is that we are doing 48 not in conjunction with 25 and so we don't have an overall sense of what's available all over the Town so maybe there is some place that I can't imagine - I can't visualize where he could go. Where is the carpet store supposed to go? Where is a the shop supposed to go? We have four zones where you could put a library or a museum. 1 don't see too many of those in our future and it doesn't look like they'll be too many tile shops or carpet shops either. There's a real problem here because we haven't looked at 25 and 48 and all of the zones together and made Special Town Board Meeting -10114/99 - Pane Seventeen sure that we really were complementing the hamlets and providing adequate space for growth and continuation. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Would anyone else like to address the Town Board in relation to the resolutions? This is not the hearing yet. This is on these changes. I'm going to take the gentleman in the back and then I'll take you Mr. Meinke. PETER HENNESSEY: I'm Peter Hennessey from Southold. I'm one of those businesses that is in the 25% of LB that is not on for I have two warehouses for a book company on Depot Lane and I'm about two weeks away from approaching the Building Department to put up another warehouse. You people have put a line through my business. Not only will I not be allowed to put up the size of the warehouse that I want, I won't be able to put up any warehouse according to what I'm reading. Nor will I be able to buy other property that I can build a warehouse on. What am I supposed to do? Can you tell me that I have nothing to worry about? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: You can have a warehouse in an LB Zone. PETER HENNESSEY: But it won't be LB. It will be LB to whatever you're thinking about changing it to. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: It's your property in particular that you're thinking of? PETER HENNESSEY: Correct. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: What is your property presently zoned? PETER HENNESSEY: LB. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Correct. But if I understand correctly, you're on Depot Lane? PETER HENNESSEY: Correct. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: I don't believe that there is a zoning map change proposed for any area around Depot Lane. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: He's concerned about the uses in LB. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Correct but there are two things. The first thing is that I don't think there are any zoning map changes and the second Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Paae Eighteen thing is - if the zoning map is not changed so thus he's still LB, the question then arises... PETER HENNESSEY: I came to the hearing the other night. I was told that LB in the entire Town was going to be changed from LB to something else. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Not true. COUNCILMAN MOORE: There are certain LB pieces that have been proposed to be changed. If you didn't receive a notice about your own piece of property, then your parcel wasn't included. PETER HENNESSEY: Then why did I sign a petition that was circulating for the general changes of LB to something else. Are you telling me that I'm not affected by any of these changes. 4 COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes, you are. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: The uses. COUNCILMAN MOORE: You're presently zoned LB. There is no proposal in the Cramer Study to take your particular piece of property and rezone it so it will continue to remain LB. The question that you want examined then is any proposed changes to the uses within LB, and in that, LB is looking at things like private warehouses. PETER HENNESSEY: Correct. COUNCILMAN MOORE: O.K. PETER HENNESSEY: You just put a line through a warehouse which means what? COUNCILMAN MOORE: No, if it was moved - if it went from... COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: We separated two definitions for warehousing - private warehousing and public warehousing. Public and private warehousing was one definition and what we did was to separate it into two definitions. PETER HENNESSEY: So, are you telling me that I'm going to maintain my LB status? COUNCILMAN MOORE: Yes. Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 -Page Nineteen PETER HENNESSEY: And then I won't have any problem putting up another warehouse? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: On the property that you're on now. COUNCILMAN MOORE: Assuming you meet what the Code requres presently - 1'm assuming that you could do that with whatever plans you have. PETER HENNESSEY: These percentages of 15 and 30... COUNCILMAN MOORE: Have no bearing on you. You'd still be conforming. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would you please spell your name and the name of the business? PETER HENNESSEY: Sure, Buccaneer Books and my last name is Hennessey. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Mr. Hennessey, look at number 12. Do you see private warehousing? There's another law about the definition of private warehousing. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: And the private warehousing proposed definition is "A building used for the storage of goods and materials by the owner of the goods and materials for the owner's own use...ex off-site storage for operations conducted by the owner at another location. No retail sales are permitted at a private warehouse. This is not to include self-storage facilities'. Those are the public warehouses. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You're fine. PETER HENNESSEY: Thanks for your time. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You're welcome. Thank you for coming in. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Mr. Hennessey, may I ask one question? PETER HENNESSEY: Sure. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Its up to you completely - does that mean that you are withdrawing your protest or not? It's up to you. I'm asking this because I might have to do calculations later depending on what the Board votes. PETER HENNESSEY: I don't agree with altering the Town Code. Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Twenty TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: That's fine. I just wanted to make sure. I might have to be doing calculations later. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would anyone else like to address the Town Board? Yes, I'm sorry, Mr. Meineke? HOWARD MEINEKE: I'm Howard Meineke of the North Fork Environmental Council. This is more in the area of a question I asked. I thought in the nonconforming uses the ability to expand 15% and at 30% was all good stuff. I just wondered though, in the effort to make it simple, my impression is that site plan requirements and things like that are no longer requested and I can understand why some people feel that way by the 15% or the 30% increase does impact parking and some of the other things that site plan looks at and I would just suggest that we have to make sure that while we're- illowing - and we should allow these things -15% and 30% expansion - it's all to the good. We still have to do what we have always done in the past and analyze those expansions for the utter impacts. Expansion is not just a building footprint. Its number of employees; its parking and a lot of other stuff that site plan looks at. Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? I see your hand, George, but is there anyone else that hasn't spoken yet? - and then I'll go back to the second time around. Is there anyone who has not spoken who would like to address the Town Board on the resolutions? O.K, Mr. Penny. GEORGE PENNY: I just have a question regarding 1 through 4. 1 left at 11:30 Tuesday night. I was not able to stay awake long enough... SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: 1:30, George. GEORGE PENNY: (Inaudible coversation due to simultaneous noise.) Yes, on 1 through 4... TOM CRAMER:...If my memory serves me correctly, the RO and LB were Type 1 Actions. Amendment to Section 100-13, the definition of private and public warehousing is an Unlisted Action. The same is for nonconforming buildings and nonconforming uses ...of the Unlisted Actions... as well as the Type 1 Actions, a full EAF was done. GEORGE PENNY: I was just curious. TOM CRAMER: I was just letting you know that the long form was done. Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Twenty-One GEORGE PENNY: O.K, thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You're welcome. Would anyone else like to address the Town Board in relation to the resolutions? Jim? JIM DINIZIO: You had a hearing the other on these four laws and took a lot of information and a lot of comments. And I'm wondering when did you meet to discuss those comments as to whether or not you're going to change any of these laws. And are these laws that (noise interference) ...the other night? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: They are the same laws that you looked at the other night. We haven't taken those comments and changed anything based on those comments. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: They are the same. JIM DINIZIO: So, you haven't taken any of the comments and changed them based on the those comments (noise interference). You're saying to me now that you haven't changed anything based on the information that the people gave you. In other words, the law is the same even though you had the public hearing, you took information and disregarding all of that because you feel that these are the motions that should be voted on? Is that correct? Yes. JIM DINIZIO: Without regard to any of the comments? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: We can't say that we're disregarding the information. JIM DINIZIO: You know, well, why have a hearing that you don't at least, at some point in time as a Board, sit down and discuss the information that you took in and perhaps formulate - that's why you have the hearing - because the law is requiring to have comments from the public. And if I read this correctly, you haven't changed the laws as they were written so you disregarded the comments that the entire public has commented on...Am I correct, you haven't discussed anything that you heard at that meeting? You just are going to vote on those laws as they were presented to the public on that night? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It has not been discussed as yet. Is that the answer you want? JIM DINIZIO: Yes. Special Town Board Meetina -10/14/99 - Page Twenty-two SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You've got it. JIM DINIZIO: In other words, if you make a motion... SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: And that doesn't mean that those comments have been discounted. JIM DINIZIO: O.K, but, well, it does if you vote for this law. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You don't know how this vote is going to go. JIM DINIZIO: I agree ...(noise interruption) is what I'm saying.... SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Would anyone else like to address the Town Board that has not spoken? This is on the resolutions? We are not in the hearing part of the zone district changes. Wait a minute, Joe. Anyone else that has not spoken that would like to speak. Yes, sir? GERARD GRASECK I'm Gerard Graseck and I'm definitely opposed to any changes in the LB Zone. Retail has been in the LB Zone for years and I think its a big mistake to change it. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Anyone else who has not spoken who would like to address the Town Board in relation to the resolutions on the agenda? OX We will begin with number 1. OX, I'm sorry. Joe and then Tyler. JOE LIZEWSKI: I just want to make a comment - people sometimes think they're maybe on the opposite side of the fence ...The way this was conducted, to me, is the most alarming - the fact that we didn't have a chance to go to legislative meetings and have people put input on this subject. If we have a law up here that said - and it happens quickly, within ten days - you have a public hearing without any discussion and we were allowed to clearcut all of the pieces of business land. And this was happening with that from the previous discussion with the Zoning Board or Planning Board - in having legislative meetings. I think that a lot of people would be very, very upset so the methodology of the way that this has come about is just very alarming to me - the fact that we've lost - I mean you can do it. We know that this is legal but it doesn't mean that its the way to go. If we're going to take a Cramer Study or a study done by somebody and jam it down people's throats without the normal input from many of the public - normally you'd go like the Greenhouse Law where the greenhouse people would be there and there would be all sorts of input and there would be time to think about things and there would be time to make a lot of comments before it ever got to this Public Hearing stage. I think there's a lot to be designed here. Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Twenty-three SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Tyler? TYLER CORNELL: Thanks, Jim and Joe. That's kind of where I was going with the way it was written for enactment. I really have two things that I want to say. I don't feel like pushing you guys too hard or anything but I was just thinking about the logistics as I just mentioned about getting the word out to people. If more people had the word and everything had gone where it could be thought about before they had the second hearing ...It would probably be worth the taxpayers money to look into that and get things rolling smoothly before they're pushed through and the lawsuits arise. Dollar for dollar, I'm sure that the lawyers will outbid any logistics for their way to get notice out to the public. And concerning the resolutions, when I was speaking before, Alice, you had mentioned before that we couldn't have that hearing. I think it was you that mentioned it - that we couldn't have the hearing for the Cramer Study until the hearing for these laws and resolutions was had. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: It wasn't a matter of couldn't - it was a matter of the request of the public to continue the hearings until they knew what the laws were. They were objecting to talking about proposed laws. TYLER CORNELL: Anyway, will the votes on the laws be taken before the vote on the Cramer Study is taken. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: That's what we're supposed to be doing today. TYLER CORNELL: Wouldn't that make the Cramer Study worthless, considering it was done on previous zoning laws? COUNCILMAN MOORE: No, because the Cramer Study included proposed recommendations - it was a two prong study. The proposed recommendation was for a zoning code to be considered since the time these proposals were made to us and we've worked around through a series of work sessions and, in conjunction with that, the specific set of recommendations as to zoning changes. It was one, two - here are suggestions on both phases: the Code and property. TYLER CORNELL: So, in other words, I just found out about these laws at the hearing but Mr. Cramer knew about them months ago. COUNCILMAN MOORE: These recommendations were all part of his proposal which was recommendations to our Code change to be made to us back when it first came out and was in his report. TYLER CORNELL: How many pages is his report? Special Town Board Meetina - 10114199 - Paae Twenty-four SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would you like me to count? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: We don't know. These laws - this proposal and Mr. Cramer's Study were made in generality - that we were the ones - this Board who worked on the laws as you see them today. They weren't made by Mr. Cramer. COUNCILMAN MOORE: Not in a law form but the recommendation to add it to the uses of the zones. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: The various uses, yes. TYLER CORNELL: And most of these laws actually work with people to a huge extent because they can increase nonconforming property anchhings of that sort which, in the past, they have not been able to do. Of course it still devalues the property if they want to sell it... COUNCILMAN MOORE: On the one example, they presently can't do anything to expand or improve their nonconforming business and this is something that you could never do before - this one proposal that you're talking about. TYLER CORNELL: Yes, but I wouldn't be here my property was going to be nonconforming. COUNCILMAN MOORE: That's a different question but the nonconforming section is providing, if enacted, something that's never been done before. TYLER CORNELL: Oh, sure. And I think its great. COUNCILMAN MOORE: We're talking about two different things. TYLER CORNELL: 9 it was done a few years ago, maybe we wouldn't need the Cramer Study. Now we're talking about nonconforming property. All right, thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would anyone else like to address the Town Board on any of the printed resolutions. Would anyone at all like to address the Town Board? Mr. Meineke? HOWARD MEINEIKE: Howard Meineke from the North Fork Environmental Council. I like to say that it isn't very often that we stand up here and agree with Joe Lizewski but, I do think that this heals - for those in the audience - that people stand up and worry about they re going to say and analyze what they Special Town Board Meeting -10114199 - Page Twenty-five read in the publication of the laws and say I think it would be better this way or I think it would be better that way. There's a bunch of opinions out there and it does feel to us too that all the comment, at least one round of comment, should marinate in the heads of the Town Board and be discussed and then be put into potentially reworded laws. We all feel as though we're part of some sort of a giant play here where everybody is asked to be part of the deliberations and nothing every appears as a change effort. You hear hours and hours and hours of opinions but you get the feeling that none of it was considered important enough to become a new sentence in any one of these things that you're working on. Maybe there's something about your procedures that I don't fully understand but 1 do find it unsettling also. Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Mr. Meineke. No demonstrations, please. Would anyone else like to address the Town Board? Mr. Foster? ARTIE FOSTER: Good morning. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Good morning. ARTIE FOSTER: I'm Artie Foster. Item number 4 in reference to the nonconforming with expansion - either 15 or 30% - whichever is determined and it's my understanding that, if by law you can expand 15 or 30%, you still have to go to the Planning Board? COUNCILMAN MOORE: Beyond 15%.. If you're going as far as 30, you're going to the Planning Board. ARTIE FOSTER: Fifteen is done... COUNCILMAN MOORE: Without site plan. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Without. ARTIE FOSTER: Without site plan. From 15 to 30 - say 20%, you have to go to the Planning Board for the site plan. COUNCILMAN MOORE: Beyond 15. ARTIE FOSTER: What determines that - the size of the lot; the size of the building that you presently have in relation to - COUNCILMAN MOORE: Expansion of the existing building - the existing footprint. Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Twenty-six ARTIE FOSTER: And the expansion of 30°x6 is based on building size or - COUNCILMAN MOORE: Footprint. That's how they've always looked at lot coverage. ARTIE FOSTER: All right, now, I'm nonconforming. I have three buildings. Can I expand each of those three buildings 15°x6 or is it the total of 15? COUNCILMAN MOORE: It's the total lot coverage. ARTIE FOSTER: Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You're welcome, Artie. Would anyone else like to address the Town Board in relation to the resolutions? Would anyone else like to address the Town Board in relation to the resolutions on the agenda? If not, I will call for the action on the resolutions. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: In the LB District, no building or premises shall be used and no building or part of a building shall be erected or altered which is arranged, intended or designed to be used, in whole or in part, for any uses except the following: Permitted Uses - the following uses are permitted uses. All permitted uses except single-family and owner-occupied two-family residences require sit plan approval. Retail business complementary to the rural and historic character of the surrounding area, limited to the following: custom workshops and machine shops. Wholesale or retail sales and accessory storage and display of garden materials and plants, including nursery operations, provided that the outdoor storage or display of plants and materials does not obstruct pedestrian flow or vehicular traffic and does not occur within three (3) feet of the property line. That's all been existing so far - that's no change. Libraries and museums, professional and business offices, funeral homes, restaurants, except drive-in or formula food, repair shops for household businesses - for household, business or personal appliances, including cabinet shops, carpenter shops, electrical shops, plumbing shops, furniture repair shops and bicycle and motorcycle shops, landscaping and other service businesses, retail uses supplemental to the business establishment - service business establishment, excuse me - wineries which meet the following standards: Wineries shall be a farm winery licensed with New York State law from which wine made from primarily Long Island grapes is produced and sold; wineries shall obtain site plan approval and wineries shall have retail sales on site; bed and breakfast set forth in the regulations for bed and breakfast; private warehousing - and early up above we removed wholesale and warehousing and we broke up the warehousing definition. Private warehousing is allowed as a permitted use in the LB Zone. The rest are permitted through special exception and that would be Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Twenty-seven contractor's businesses or yards, but not limited to, building, plumbing and electrical yards, telephone exchanges, antique and art and craft shop galleries. Accessory uses that are added are outside storage of equipment, supplies and materials associated with any of the normal operations of the principal use provided that the storage is adequately screened from along the road frontage and contiguous residential lots with natural vegetation, landscaping, fencing and/or as shall be deemed appropriate by the Planning Board. We made some changes in the bulk area and parking requirements. The Planning Board may grant a limited waiver from the bulk schedule requirements from a lot size to a minimum of 40,000 square feet where it can be clearly demonstrated that the subject parcel has been held in single and separate ownership since 1989 or earlier based on title, a survey prepared by a licensed surveyor describing the subject premises and all contiguous property. This stays the same as the old law was - structures shall be set back at least one hundred (100) feet from the right- of-way. There shall be an exception to Subsection A if the adjacent parcels are developed, in which the minimum front yard setback shall be average of the setbacks of the neighboring parcels. A project shall be divided into separate structures so that no single structure shall have any more than sixty (60) linear feet of frontage on one (1) street. The setbacks of multiple structures on a parcel may vary, provided that the average setback of the structures meets the setback requirements above and all buildings are at least seventy-five (75) feet from the right-of-way. And that's as the law states right now. That's it. I made the resolution. COUNCILMAN MOORE: I second it. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Its been moved and seconded. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Romanelli? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Yes, on the LB. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Moore? COUNCILMAN MOORE: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilwoman Hussie? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: No. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Supervisor Cochran? Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Twenty-eight SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes. The resolution is lost - insufficient votes - it didn't pass. O.K., resolution number 2. 1 need the reading. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Do you want me to read number 2? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: If you want to, John, please. You've got them right there. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: This is the RO. Permitted uses - one family detached dwellings, not to exceed one (1) dwelling on each lot; owner occupied two-family dwellings. The following uses are permitted uses subject to site plan approval by the Planning Board. These are all added that I'm about to read. Buildings, structures and uses owned or operated by the Town of Southold, school districts, park districts and fire districts. This is also added number b - buildings, structures and uses owned or operated by fraternal organizations and utilized for activities typically conducted by a fraternal organization, including but not limited to public meeting places, charitable and fundraising events, patriotic observances and catering for public and private functions. Bed and breakfasts are added to the RO. Professional offices are added. Churches or similar places of worship. Libraries, museums and art galleries are also added. Small business offices such as insurance agencies, real estate agencies, computer software services, financial planning securities brokers and like kind small business establishments excluding retail sales of any kind or nature and limited to the overall floor space of 3,000 square feet. That's all been added. Permitted uses by special exception by the Board of Appeals are funeral homes, restaurants, except for fast food and formula food; custom workshop provided it shall not be all or part of a commercial center. Accessory uses - additional standards - all permitted structures as set forth in this Article - no outdoor storage will be allowed in RO. All permitted buildings and/or structures shall be visually residential in character, the visible architectural features of which shall be consistent and compatible with the architectural styles of the existing structures in the immediate neighborhood. Store fronts of any kind whatsoever shall not be permitted. No building or premises shall be used ; no building or part thereof shall be erected or altered in the RO District unless the same conforms to the Bulk Schedule so the Bulk Schedule stays the same. I move that motion. COUNCILMAN MOORE: I second it. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Romanelli? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: No. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Moore? Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Twenty-nine COUNCILMAN MOORE: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilwoman Hussie? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: No. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Supervisor Cochran? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Resolution lost. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: John, do you have the next one? Public and private warehousing. I'd appreciate it if you'd read it. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Sure, no problem. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: O.K., we separated warehousing from public and private and the two definitions are: private warehousing - a building used for the storage of goods and materials by the owner of the goods and materials for the owner's own use. Off-site storage for operations conducted by the owner at another location. No retail sales are permitted at a private warehouse. This is not to include self-storage facilities. The self-storage facilities go to public warehousing and I will give you a definition of public warehousing - a building or buildings used primarily for the storage of goods and materials and available to the general public for a fee. An example would be self-storage facilities. No sales (either wholesale or retail) are permitted in a public warehouse. I move that motion. COUNCILMAN MOORE: Second. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Romanelli? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Moore? COUNCILMAN MOORE: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilwoman Hussie? Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Thirty COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Supervisor Cochran? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes. All right, John, do you have the next one on nonconforming buildings and nonconforming uses, please? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: OX A nonconforming building containing a nonconforming use shall not be enlarged, reconstructed or structurally altered or moved, except as set forth below - and that is a non-residential use. Nothing in this Article shall be deemed to prevent the remodeling, reconstruction or enlargement of a nonconforming or conforming non-residential building with a non-conforming non-residential use or construction of an addition to existing building(s) or additional building on the premises, so long as said increase in size of the building(s) created by the enlargement of the existing building or structure or by the construction of a new and separate building or structure, does not result in an increase in the overall building footprint(s) of more than fifteen (15%) percent, except that the said increase shall not exceed the applicable maximum lot size. In addition, all setbacks and area requirements still apply. Nothing in this Article shall be deemed to prevent the remodeling, reconstruction or enlargement of a nonconforming or conforming non-residential building with a nonconforming use or construction of an addition to existing building(s) or additional building on the premises, so long as said increase in size of the building(s) created by the enlargement of the existing buildings or structures or by the construction of a new and separate building or structure, does not result in an increase in the overall building footprint(s) of more than thirty (30%) per cent, except that the said increase shall not exceed the applicable maximum lot size, all setback requirements are met, provided that the following site remediation measures, in full or in part, as shall be determined by the. Planning Board within its sole discretion, are included as an essential element of the aforesaid expansion; substantial enhancement of the overall landscaping and/or natural vegetation; employment of best visual practices by upgrades to existing building facades and/or design of the new buildings and/or the additon of existing buildings which accurately or more accurately depict the historical and/or existing rural character of the immediate and nearby neighborhood(s). All that I've read so far is new. The one part of the law that was not changed - a nonconforming building containing a nonconforming use which has been damaged by fire or other causes to the extent of more than fifty percent (50%) of its fair value and shall not be rebuilt - repaired or rebuilt - unless the use of such building is changed to a conforming use. I move that motion. COUNCILMAN MOORE: Second. Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Thirty-one COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: I'm voting no on this. I think we're heading in the right direction with this law. I think it's a big improvement from what it was but I think it needs a little more work after hearing some of the public comments on it. I know there's a lot of talk about the fire damage. I'd like to see some changes and there's some talk about giving the Building Department say on this. So, I'm voting no on it but I believe it will come back and resurface in a better law. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Moore? COUNCILMAN MOORE: The Building Department presently has under this proposal the authority, as pointed out at one of the hearings, to deal with 15% because you don't need site plan. That does give it to the Building Department right off the bat. Secondly, we did not address a fire issue but a nonexistent fire issue doesn't mean that one wouldn't do that and I would not want to - I'll use a double negative - I wouldn't want to not see this enacted because we didn't pursue Subdivision B. I'd like to see this go into place because I think it provides some relief in the Code that currently provides no relief whatsoever regardless of the outcome of anything else that this Board does over the next weeks and months. This is an improvement and we can certainly address Subdivision B in the future. So, I vote yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilwoman Hussie? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: No. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes and 1 would also like to add that I have always had great difficulty with the 50% when someone loses more than that in a business. That's a hardship in itself and, I will, at the next Regular Town Board Meeting direct that that be placed on the Code Committee Agenda to be looked at for relief in relation to that particular part of the law. I'll support it, yes. JODY ADAMS: It failed or won? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Lost, two to two. There's not enough votes for any of this right now. JODY ADAMS: Will you explain that? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: The warehouses passed. JODY ADAMS: The warehouses passed - I understand that. You have to have a super majority? Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Thirty-two COUNCILMAN MOORE: Of the voting membership of your Board which is four. (Tape change.) SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: continuation of the Public Hearing. I'm song. As you may or may not know we are renting several offices over in Feather Hill that we have been more than encouraged to move the people out of the basement - out of the offices down there - because of the mold, the spores and the breathing and the liability. So, we are renting temporarily, we hope, several offices over in Feather Hill. One of the things we have to do is move our computers, our telephones and connect them to us and this resolution relates to the computer lines which have to be done by Bell Atlantic. So, if I may have a motion to that effect? COUNCILMAN MOORE: I so move. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Allow me to sign the - you have it here somewhere. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Authorize and direct Supervisor Jean Cochran to execute an agreement with Bell Atlantic for communication purposes for the Town's Feather Hill location. I so move. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Second. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Romanelli? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Moore? COUNCILMAN MOORE: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilwoman Hussie? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Supervisor Cochran? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Resolution adopted. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Now we'll go to... Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Paae Thirty-three COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: I'd like to present a motion - I move that in consideration of the zoning map changes be postponed to a later date in order for this Board to carefully consider the hours of public testimony heard regarding those map changes and the Code changes. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: I second that. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: This is a postponement - consideration... SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I don't understand what you're postponing. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: I'm postponing making any kinds of definite decisions. We have heard two hours the other night on Code changes and about twenty hours on the zoning map changes. We have, to this-date, not had an opportunity to really give them all the thought that we have. We're rushing ahead and rushing ahead. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We have an appointment at 11:00 with Tom Cramer who is coming in to share some of his thoughts with us. He sat through some of the hearings and we'll have the transcriptions and he has some possible changes and, at this time, we will also be discussing any of the information received in relation to the zone changes. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: That's right, but this is Thursday. That leaves us tomorrow, Monday and on Tuesday at 9:00... SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We will be meeting to make decisions. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Right. I really don't feel that that's enough time. I would like to move the motion. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Let's have the vote. Do I have a second? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Second. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: John seconded. First and second. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Romanelli? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilman Moore? Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Thirty-four COUNCILMAN MOORE: I don't understand what the motion is. You don't have a motion before you to try and table. You did that Tuesday night. We tabled. Those actions were taken up here. We don't have an agenda that you're saying table this. You're making up some motion that doesn't say anything. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Its not on the agenda. COUNCILMAN MOORE: Whatever it is that we're voting on - I don't understand the motion and I'm going to say no. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Well, what seems to be the problem? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Its not on the agenda. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Wait a minute - we're not done with the vote yet. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I'm sorry. Your vote, Bill? COUNCILMAN MOORE: No. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: No. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Councilwoman Hussie? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: And Supervisor Cochran? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: No. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Resolution lost. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: OX, now I will go to reconvening the hearing on the zone changes which is on your printed agenda. Before I begin to take any input in relation to the hearing on the possible zone map changes, I'm going to take a five minute recess. OX? (Recess) SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: hearing on Local Laws for possible zone change - zone changes - on the map - the parcels on the 48 Corridor. Would anyone like to address the Town Board in relation to these? Yes, ma'am? Then, Tyler, I'll take you second. Special Town Board Meetina -10/14/99 - Page Thirty-five ANN MILOSKI: My name is Ann Miloski. Being that the proposed zone change in the amended law pertaining to the zone change on Route 48 has not passed - does that mean that this Public Hearing goes back to the existing law that you had on the book? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Greg? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Since the only change currently to the existing Code at 8:59 this morning - prior to the votes - the only change that's been made to that Code, as we sit here right now - there has been a vote which has passed on private and public warehousing. Does that answer your question? ANN MILOSKI: What I'm asking is - you have a public hearing today on zone changes on the Route 48 Corridor so the people who are going to get up to speak now on the proposed zone change have to go back to the existing laws that you have in your Code book now. They can't go to the proposed laws. They did not pass, right? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: At the moment, correct. Let me clarify that. As you and I were just talking outside a moment ago, as I mentioned before - if I were standing with you on that piece of property, I would address it all because the zoning code could always possibly change and we've already had Public Hearings and people have talked about it so its something you might want to consider. I can't tell you how to make your argument or address your concerns. That's something you have to make a call yourself. It has been proposed; there has not yet - excuse me - there has been a Public Hearing. ANN MILOSKI: They were voted down, except for one, right? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Correct, however, I just need to point out that that vote - if the Board chose a later date to have another vote and then it passed - that could happen. And the Board could have another vote at a later date, and could chose not to pass it. ANN MILOSKI: (Inaudible)... We really have to talk about the law that's in effect today. COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Its in the law that's in effect today. However, the Board over the years has changed the Town Code in a variety of ways in a variety of times. Mr. Yakaboski suggested that we might re-vote on it. We could re-vote on the law exactly as it is. I hope that doesn't happen. I hope we do a little bit of adjustment there but it can be done at any time. So today is just - the Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Thirty-six Code Book as you know and love it with the exception of the public and private warehousing. ANN MILOSKI: Thank you very much. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: I have a question - does this have to be republished? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: No. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: Do we have to republish the hearings to vote on the same law again? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: No. t COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: We're going to vote on these Code changes atain that failed today and they do not need to be republished? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Only if we change the law. (simultaneous discussion) One at a time please - Greg? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: My question is - if we vote on the existing laws that were turned down today - that were published in the paper two weeks ago with no changes to the proposed law, do we need to republish it to vote on it? In other words, you're saying these laws could show up on the next Town Board Meeting Agenda and we could vote on it at that point? TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Somebody could make a motion - that's why I was just suggesting to Ann that, if I was standing in her shoes, I might make the call... COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: These motions could appear on the next Board meeting, without publishing, without people knowing that they're going to be on the agenda, and come up to a vote? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: If there are no changes. COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: That's all I wanted to clarify. That means people - that means everyone needs to come to every Board meeting from now until eternity? JACK WILLIAMS: Just until January. Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Thirty-seven SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Let's keep it nonpolitical although a lot of it is. Let's try at least. Politics don't belong here. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Let's keep it nonpolitical. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: That's what I was trying to explain to Ann - if she felt - for example, right now to be blunt - the full Board is not here. If she thought that the full Board might bring it back again and vote again, she might want to make an argument on it that addresses the current Code as it exists or the present Code. For example she might go - look, I like going from A to B or I don't like going from A to B. If you put me to B at least change the Code or don't change the Code. That's the law. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: OX, Tyler? 4 TYLER CORNELL: I'm Tyler Come[[ from Southold on behalf of Ruth Enterprises and the Cornell Family. To go a little bit further with that - a few moments ago, I was told by the Board that the Cramer Study was not worthless with the new zone changes that were going up for Local Law at the previous hearing. Because the entire Cramer Study was based upon these laws to go into effect, now the Town Board has voted these laws down with the exception of the warehousing which doesn't affect quite as much as the nonconforming issue, I ask again - is the Cramer Study worthless? Previously you had told me that the Cramer Study was not worthless because it was based upon the resolutions that were to be enacted. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I don't think that that was exactly what was said. TYLER CORNELL: Well, that's what you said before: SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Who did the speaking - who said it so we can clarify it? TYLER CORNELL: The Town Board. I'm not sure what particular one - it would probably be back in the notes. Play back the tape. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: As far as I'm concerned, there is a possibility that it will be on the agenda for the next Board meeting to once again vote with a full Board on these four resolutions that were acted upon this morning. TYLER CORNELL: O.K, my next question would be is - being that we worked so hard to get the permits for the property that we build upon and invest with our Town and that can be overthrown at a moment's notice like this Cramer Study Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Thirty-eight has done - I am asking that being that a permit isn't work a whole heck of a lot other than a lot of work and cost for us, is a vote from the Board - the Town Board -just as flimsy as a permit in our Town? And, if it is, I would like, being at the logistics of notifying myself or the people affected, can't be done to notify us of where and when and how in what order these laws are going to go up for a vote and the reason behind them. And I'd like to ask for a certified letter sent to the Town's public paper, the Suffolk Times, telling us exactly when the next vote will be - at what time and what order it would go into effect, noting that it was already turned down once and asking for additional public opinion on how much money we should spend to try and make the Cramer Study valuable to our people. You've just told us that it was invaluable by that last vote. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: The vote will be on the nineteenth and the moratorium closes on the twentieth. TYLER CORNELL: OX Can we have public notice for the rest of the Town that's here now? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I believe that's in the public notice. It's been noticed. TYLER CORNELL: On the revoting? We just voted once - how could it be already - SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We will probably vote if its put on the agenda for the uses and also for the zone changes. TYLER CORNELL: How did you know that the uses were going to be turned down today? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I didn't TYLER CORNELL: But you already notified everybody that the vote will be on the nineteenth? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Not in relation to the uses. TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Any Board member has the right to make a motion. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Have the notice go out, Betty. (simultaneous discussion) Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Thirty-nine COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yesterday I received a fax and I presume that the Town Clerk faxed all of the media and other public parties to the fact that on the nineteenth of October, which is next Tuesday, at 9:00, 1 do believe, there will be a Special Board Meeting at which time the Board would consider the enactment of a Local Law to do the Code changes that we just were talking about and the zoning map changes. That was yesterday. So, there was no knowledge that this was going to fail or anything like that. So, there is a notice out there. On the nineteenth, Tuesday, there will be another Board meeting. TYLER CORNELL: Another Board meeting? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes. TYLER CORNELL: Another Board meeting? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes. TYLER CORNELL: But possibly not another vote? So, we do have to stand by like John said at the edge of our heels forever? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Until the nineteenth. TYLER CORNELL: Until the nineteenth. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: And on the twentieth the moratorium expires. TYLER CORNELL: If it doesn't pass then, how much more time and money are we going to stick into trying to make the Cramer Study valuable. We're investing all of these people's time, all of your time - I'd like to ask what the Town Board is doing besides the Cramer Study? COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Nothing. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would you like to follow me around for a day? I don't think so. TYLER CORNELL: I wouldn't mind - it actually would be very interesting - I can't afford it. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Come on in; I'd love to have you spend the day with me. TYLER CORNELL: Done. When? Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Forty SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: See my secretary. She'll put you on the calendar. TYLER CORNELL: O.K. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I'll pick a day that's real exciting. TYLER CORNELL: OX SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: How's that? TYLER CORNELL: But, is there an answer to the question - how much are we going to spend - I mean the Board knocked down the main resolutions that were to do with the Cramer Study. How many votes and how much money are we going to invest into getting those passed so that we can then vote on the Cramer Study? And how much money does the Town have to spend on this? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I don't know if you can put a price on trying to preserve our rural quality of life, Tyler. It would be a different value to every person. Its like quality of life. Some people see it as one thing; others as another. If you'd like to know how I see quality of life, I see good schools for our children; I see a nice mess of scallops in September when you're able to catch them; I see parks and playgrounds; I see open space; so everyone interprets - COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: It sounds like a political statement. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I beg your pardon. Everyone interprets quality of life differently and everyone puts a different price tag on it. TYLER CORNELL: I agree with you 100% on that - which is to go back to what 1 think was the first or second thing I said when I walked in here and, I guess, got involved in politics to try and save my family's property. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Right. TYLER CORNELL: Everyone values it different. Why don't we put it to a vote to the people to see if they even want to start up. I mean the cost of a vote has got to be less than the $35,000. that we already spent on Mr. Cramer plus whatever additional we paid for him for notes and things of that sort. I mean isn't that the way to start the democracy or the practice of democracy is to find out what the people really want? Is that a yes? COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: That's the purpose of a Public Hearing - to find out what the public wants. Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Forty-one SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: The input. TYLER CORNELL: But how much can we invest to invest in you to invest in finding out? I mean, one day, one vote; everything across the Board; plenty of notice. With the people, not around the people. I'm not trying to say anything wrong when I say that but we're working around the people when we kind of take all this time and money out to come out and just close this stuff. Enough of that...A letter from my father, Clifford Cornell, President of Ruth Enterprises and owner of a parcel which is being rezoned to agricultural, making it therefore valueless. Dear Members of the Town Board of Southold: I object to the rezoning of Route 48 and question the manner in which the entire Cramer Study was commenced, paid for and carried out (like father, like son). The study has cost me my tax dollars, unending hours of stress, possibly my planned retirement and a hold on any available investment money as a result of having to now budget funds to defend my own land. The Route 48 Study has targeted approximately 126 properties for rezoning out of only 272 within the plan. That's an unbelievable 47% and, if those numbers are wrong, its because did my job wrong. I just got it from the hearings here. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. TYLER CORNELL: (referring to letter) In most every case, this upzoning as a Board has politically named it, devalues the property of local families who have taken the initiative to invest in their Town and provide the Town's employees with their paychecks through the real estate taxes they have paid. I have heard comments by the North Fork residents who say that they want to get involved and maintain the rural character. 1, as always, feel the same way, but I didn't tell the fanners that they were now permitted to only to grow grass instead of the crops that they depend upon because I thought grass was pretty and created a prettier vista. Nothing against farmers but that's the way that we feel with the property. We can't stop progress but we can create a dress code. I recently read a comment in the editorial of a local paper which stated greedy business people and speculators are the people interested in overthrowing the rezoning, If the people of Southold believe this is true, I believe they should read George Orwell's book "1984' to see how big brother will watch out for us. After all, I don't believe that it is an American dream to have your business and property devalued by your local government. We constructed our building and worked our hardest to consider our neighbors and the rural character of the area while creating a building that was functional for our business. We employed local tradesman and financed the project through the local bank and have employed Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Forty-two local families for fifteen years. May of these families have gained a successful future within the electrical industry. In addition, these families and I, EECO Electric Corp. and Ruth Enterprises, Inc., make a majority of their money from western Suffolk and Nassau County. These incomes support the Town economy with "new* oney used to pay the property and sales tax rates we all pay. I considered calling in - excuse me - I considered calling in many of these families to support us during the hearings, but realized they, like myself and the Town, would not have any way to recoup the loss of income by dedicating additional time to this study. We have contributed to local fundraisers including the PBA, Fire Department, Athletic Associations, churches, school fundraisers, etc. For approximately ten years, I chaired with committee members, the Kiwanis Scholarship Fund for Southold, Greenport and Mattituck Schools. Most of these meetings were hosted from the Ruth Enterprises, Inc./EECO Electric Building. Finally, we have been able to use the building, in conjunction with Town electrical inspectors, for training conferences and code interpretation meetings. I am currently trying to plan my retirement. The moratorium, and/or the possible rezoning, has caused me an immeasurable amount of distress and destroys most of my retirement plans because the properties affected by the zone change will lose most of their liquidity and, therefore, most of their value. Even though many advocates of the zone changes may have owned property in the past, building a business on a piece of property is a much different investment because there are two assets available for sale. If the more liquid asset, being the business, is sold to another company who already has property, the value of our land will devalue as a result of your zoning changes. If I am unable to sell the property at the value I need because of this zone change, I lose along with all of the other land owners who have objected to this extremely taxing proposal. In closing, I strongly object to the zone changes on Route 48 and the two properties of which are owned by myself and Ruth Enterprises. I petition the Town to decrease the amount of money they spend on studies, which seem to have a very minimal amount of support from those they Intend to help, and remind each person involved that the law suits which may evolve as a result of the decision made on the Route 47 Study will once again increase the property tax rates in Southold - in the Town of Southold - and once again devalue each piece of property within the Town, therefore, devaluing Southold. Sincerely, Clifford Charles Cornell, Southold Town Resident, Property Owner, President of Ruth Enterprises. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Tyler, may we have a copy of that. If thafs the only one, we can make one. Do you have an extra copy? TYLER CORNELL: I have it on my computer. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: ON OX Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Forty-three TYLER CORNELL: If you could just staple it, please? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We'll staple it and we'll mark it received. O.K? TYLER CORNELL: Great. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Mr. Dart? Good morning. EDWARD DART: Good morning, everyone. I just wanted to take a moment to recognize the diligence and hard work by the good people in the Town Clerk's Office. In particular, I wanted to recognize Betty Neville for her competent impartiality and always cheerful nature to this very decisive - devisive initiative on the part of the Town Board. And you, Jean. It's noteworthy that you have been able to recognize and address nearly each one of us landowners on a first name basis. That's because we are largely your real Southolders - the ones, many of who like my family have for two or three or more generations, been the very fabric of Southold. The only problem is that you want to take from us now against our will. I understand and I share your well intended intentions to prevent our Town from looking like another Selden and I have demonstrated that to my more than ten years of voluntary service to beautify Southold by my work on the Tree Committee. I just think that your methodology, the rezoning, is wrong and that another innovative Town-wide cooperative means is possible so that everyone can share the burden. And if I heard correctly, Mr. Meineke is speaking for the North Fork Environmental Council, was also supportive of a cooperative approach. And I appreciate Councilman Moore's polite and courteous reason for his vote of no on Councilman Romaneili's courageous motion to put aside the Cramer Study and to look for another way but I feel that it was a shallow justification for proposing tow-cost zone changes against some of us landowners. I think you also had the option to change the zoning on Southold's farmland, yet, you made the conscious decision to buy their land use options. And a challenge has committed itself to providing compensation to some of its citizens. I feel you're ethically obligated to find, and that there is a way, to do likewise with us rather than to ramrod these unconscionable zone changes. Regarding my own four parcels of B zoned land at the northwest comer of Route 48 and Youngs Avenue in Southold - this is spec to my parcels now - I believe that the Cramer Study was flawed in its recommendation to change the zoning at this location then the very core of the most intensive established stretch of business uses along the entire length of the Route 48 Corridor Study area. I believe that leaving the current zoning of my four parcels as unchanged is justified in view of the following facts: The Cramer Study already recommends continuation of B Zoning at the northeast... that these B Zone activities are currently being conducted at the southwest comer as well and will continue to be conducted for decades as a nonconforming use if these Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Forty-four zone changes go through. A third reason is - I believe that there will very likely be a traffic light at that intersection in the near future which can allow for safe ingress and egress to the more intensive uses permitted in the B Zone. And four, just in case you're wrong about Southolders' future wants and needs for the type of business enterprises permitted in the B Zone, this will allow for an appropriate place to put them. And lastly, I have been asked by some of the folks here if the October 19th Town Board Meeting could possibly be scheduled for an evening hour rather than the morning because morning meetings present a hardship and loss of earnings for many of us. If it's possible to change that to an evening hour, I'm sure that everybody's preferences could be accommodated if that's permissible. Thanks. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thanks, Ed. (tape change) SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: As you know, the Public Notice stated that this hearing would go from 9:00-12:00. 1 have no difficulty with extending it. The point is that everyone has the opportunity to speak and give their input. The Work Session with Mr. Cramer will follow the end of the hearing. O.K, would anyone else like to address the Town Board? Mr. Penny? GEORGE PENNY: First, I'd like to thank the Town Board for extending the hearing and I hope that my comments earlier to the Town Attorney were not misinterpreted by anybody because I feel that the Public Notice that we received offered closure and the Town Board had to say something to make it official. Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You're welcome. GEORGE PENNY: I really don't know where to start or where to end this except to say that it's been rather interesting for the last week or so to spend the amount of time that I have here and having to defend something that we've been using - that is already in use and has been in our family s possession since 1890. 1 don't know what purpose it would possibly serve to change commercial light industrial property or to make a lumber yard and a flooring center nonconforming. I've already discussed the burden that you put on us as a family corporation by rendering us nonconforming. Possibly 1-3/4 acres out of 3.9 - I would not be able to increase the storage of my building materials. On approximately that same acre and three-quarters, I could not put up another storage building. I think what it would do - it would probably force me to find land elsewhere - if you have any idea of what property is worth, and light industrial is Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Pane Forty-five probably as developed land, it's probably in the neighborhood of $300,000. an acre and as undeveloped land, if you can find it vacant, its currently going for in the neighborhood of $90-100,000. an acre. There is no undeveloped land surrounding Penny Lumber. I would be forced to go to my nextdoor neighbor, Bob Boasi who is up for a zone change to, I think it's Light Industrial, back to R- 40 on Sound Avenue, and try to buy, I guess maybe its an acre or 3/4 of an acre, and then come in and submit a long and lengthy SEQRA process, etc., etc. to get a zone change. I'm sure the SEQRA process for that would not be as speedy as the process by which the Town would take this zoning away from you. I'm sure that, particularly after seeing the events of the other evening, know - although I know that I'm not in a Hamlet Business area, that it would not be a simple process due to the environmental impacts of converting residential property into C - Light Industrial. Its probably got to be one of the toughest burdens that anybody could try to overtake in Southold Town. And all because the Town, for some reason unbeknownst to me and yet not thoroughly explained, might want to render me nonconforming on the property which we already are...Part of this plan was to protect the hamlets and part of this plan was to address traffic. Let me just go to the hamlet aspect of this. You cannot provide the uses that I provide or that I need to accommodate a business in a Hamlet Business area. C - Light Industrial property - a lumber yard - were zoned out of these areas so to expect me to be able to make an application or to move into a hamlet or to affect anybody in any hamlet in any way - that's yet to be brought up. There has been no negative comments on my property. I received from Betty Neville this morning comments and they were comments from my employees, comments from anybody else and I know that still down on the counters of my businesses there are petition's which we've asked our customers to sign which, unfortunately, they haven't done a very thorough job of because they've been more interested in selling building materials then they were to go around passing petitions but this is what employees do. That's why they're there. We enjoy what we do and we'd like to be able to continue to do it. If you're going to exclude from County Route 48 uses such as mine, where are they going to go? If you take a half of a lumber yard or about an acre and three-quarters of Light Industrial property, somebody would have to tell me where I would be more suitable. Material storage is not allowed in the hamlets. Carpet stores and the storage involved with them are not allowed in the hamlets. First of all, anybody could set up a little carpet store - I mean it's the simplest thing to do. If you have a warehouse, it's somewhere else. To do them one in conjunction with the other - and they re the only ones that succeed because there have been satillites that have come into the shopping malls in Town and they have never survived because there was one - I think it was an outfit from Hampton Bays - that tried a carpet store there and to try to develop the storage that you need to run a small forklift and twelve to fifteen foot rolls of carpeting - I don't believe that you're Special Town Board Meeting -10/14/99 - Page Forty-six going to find that available for rent anywhere in the hamlet centers. The outside display of materials is a matter of concern. I know that not only for myself but for Pat Miloski - she could not move to a hamlet center because Hamlet Business does not allow outside display of goods and wares. Heavy equipment repairs and storage - that includes my equipment or the equipment from excavators and bulldozer operators. If you're going to take them off of CR 48, what area are you going to provide for them? Somewhere along the line, I mean - the reality in this whole project is that this is a real town. There are people that do work for a living that do build the additions for the second homes that people come to out here. We passed a Home Occupation Law to accommodate our own contractors and protect them years ago because we saw that there was a threat coming to people working out of their houses and now there seems to be a threat to people that legitimately move their operations from their houses and moved outside where they thought they were supposed to go. As a matter of fact, the Master Plan called for it. Commerical electrical contracting and storage - where in the hamlet are they supposed to unload the trucks and their electrical supplies - guys like the Comells that work out of town. Where are you going to put them? Where are you going to put your machine shops? These are all questions that are not answered because this is a plan of exclusion only. I see no inclusion, no balance. Marine dock builders and storage -,there's a property right down the road from my lumber yard in Mattituck which is just about ready to - I believe the contract has been voided now by the potential person that was buying it to store his dock building equipment. Is that dock building equipment now supposed to go behind his house or in a garage or maybe he'll try to put up some sort of a building somewhere to hide it in? And warehousing - where are they all supposed to go? Councilman Moore mentioned the other day that we're looking thirty to forty years into the future with this plan. I don't know whose future is being addressed by this plan but it's certainly not the future of Penny Lumber, the Penny family, the Penny employees or all of our: customers because if Penny Lumber cannot grow in a healthy fashion, then I think the onerous 'Home Depot" will be on call. They will be looking for a place to grow and service the needs of a community because the growth of the businesses already existing here that could keep them out have been stagnated. If my development rights go away - my rights to expand in the future, somebody will come in and fulfill that need. Somebody will. An awful lot of lumber yards went down the tubes in the last fifteen years and I always thought that the biggest problem I had was getting customers and getting paid and hoping for a strong financial economy - a good base of building, a good base of investment out here in this town and now my greatest fear is losing my zoning. I mean, I've made it through the tough times. Let me continue into the future. This plan takes the Town a big step backwards - a major step backwards - more than ten years - probably fifteen years to before the last Master Plan update. I have some pictures here which I copied for the sole purpose of showing you what CR 48 is going to look like because it looked Special Town Board Meeting - 10/14/99 - Page Forty-seven like this one. The only trouble is this happens to be my own property which is not directly on 48, but this is what is coming. Two storage trailers because businesses, nonconforming and not allowed to expand and when their needs required storage - this is the direction that they took. I don't think there's anybody here on the Town Board - if you've been in this town for more than ten or fifteen years, that doesn't remember the influx of storage trailers which has now disappeared because businesses have legitimate uses. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thanks, George. GEORGE PENNY: This is what happens - this is what you need to do - and I hated to do it myself, but when I needed storage space, the lengthy process that it took to get permits and get a building, installed - I had to do something. And now if you tell me that I have absolutely no right - by the way;Ahose trailers are gone. I replaced them with the building in the pictures which I showed you back around 1984 or 1985 - this is what is going to be coming back to CR 48 because when you render people nonconforming and when they go in for that fifteen or maybe thirty percent expansion and that still doesn't cut it, these storage trailers on wheels, fully licensed, etc., etc. are the cheapest and the quickest way out. And I hope that the Town has the foresight not to send the business community back in this direction. I think that the Mullen Hearing the other night was an eye opener because if you're going to send all of these people into the hamlets, I think that the reaction that they got from trucks unloading and offloading from any type of commercial activity that is now outside the hamlets, coming into the hamlets, I think you're really going to have your time on your hands. If you're going to look twenty or thirty years into the future, think about the Town Board twenty or thirty years in the future that every time a businessman tries to expand his business anywhere near the hamlet and bring in some of this heavy equipment that you're drawing off of 48 and it has to go somewhere because the Town needs it, you can't just bring bulldozers in from out of Town. There are people here that do it, they make their living and they're not going to give up. They're going to have to operate - if they want to expand, they buy another bulldozer. Are they going to have to go put it in their back yard? Now, if that's a step forward, I'll eat my hat. I think I've said just about all I can say on this. I appreciate the Town Board's patronage in doing what they're doing. Just one more think on traffic - as I did rerun through this study the other day, I saw that one of the reasons for changing things and coming up with this study - although I don't believe that there was a formal traffic study done - somebody looked at a bunch of accidents and saw that they were by intersections which had commercial activity - and adopted the idea that the commercial activity is what caused the accidents. What causes the accidents in Southold Town, as you well know, is probably the average age of the driver in Southold Town. The lines of ferry traffic going in one direction or another - I cross 48 to go to work every day; Special Town Board Meeting - October 14, 1999 - Page Forty-eight don't know how many of you do but, I mean I do it every day - any time you're on 48, you have to be very careful because there are Senior Citizens out there that see that traffic coming and they gun it and smack-o. They're not hit that much by local people; they're hit by people from out-of-town. So, at some point in time, there is going to be a traffic light or a demand for a traffic light on every intersection in Southold Town. I believe that the premise - that this is caused by commercial activity, does not stand up. I'm not aware of people coming in or out of a business on 48 that are getting hit. It's the people at the crossroads that are getting clobbered and they are getting clobbered by out-of-towners because this is not just CR 48; this is now because of the ferry, Interstate Route 48 and if you know what it's like to try to get in the way of somebody thaVs on their way to the ferry, afraid that they're going to miss an appointment, you're taking your life in your hands. And I think I'm done. Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, George. I would just like to say, George, with the present zones along the North Road we do have storage trailers being used up there presently in different businesses. Who else would like to address the Town Board? Andreas Markakis : I'm Andreas Markakis of Southold. Thank you very much for the opportunity - I've been waiting since ten to nine and I will take only a few minutes in presenting one of the members of - the American Taxpayers Association. There are several members on the list whose properties are adversely affected by the proposed change of the Code. The letter I have from Mrs. Soulas was addressed to the Supervisor. Dear Supervisor Cochran: Thank you for your consideration in listening to me at my hearing regarding the upzoning of my property. I am unable to attend the October 14th meeting because of professional obligations. I have asked to read the read the and present you with a paper regarding our position. Mr. has been respected in our community as a President of the Transfiguration of Christ Church in Mattituck and the Greek Homeowners Association In Southold. We sincerely hope that you will take into consideration our individual problems regarding the upzoning of our property. Notice of Objection which reads: October 14, 1999 - Project Name: John Z. Soulas and Catherine Mattituck, New York; SCTM #1000-45-2-1; Property located on the south side of Rt. 48, 805 ft. east of Tucker's Lane, Greenport, containing 1.2 acres. Objection: The Town Board's motion to change the zoning of our property from Hamlet Density (HD) to Residential (R-80) should not be passed. I strongly disagree with the planned upzoning of my property to a low density residential (R-80) district. We purchased this property for about $41,000.00 in 1985 when it was being zoned for Hamlet Density. We paid a ten-year land mortgage of approximately 10% interest on the $20,000.00 loan. My husband, John, is a New York City teacher who worked long hours to pay for the Special Town Board Meeting - October 14. 1999 - Page Forty-nine mortgage. It is our life savings. This rezoning will decrease the value of my property by 50%. We are probably one of the few landowners who have been singled out a second time for up-zoning. From 1982-89 our vacant land was scrutanized in the Master Plan . Numerous public hearings, groups, public scoping hamlet meetings were held. The current zone and Master Plan was adopted. What has changed since then? What has changed since then? The Cramer Report has not shown anything new to indicated why my zoning should be singled out for a change. Assemblywoman Patricia Acampora said in her October 4 letter to Supervisor Jean Cochran in our defense "We must also be committed to our committments who have invested to our constituants, who have invested in the future of the Town of Southold. We cannot penalize the individual owners of property to the extent that investing in the Town would cause such severe financial hardship that future potential landowners would look elsewhere before investing in our Town. We cannot commit to such economic stagnation. Approximately one-half acre of our land is wetlands. Only three- quarter acres can be used. How is my small plot of land a threat to the of Route 48? How can it be? Why is my property always singled out every five years by a new political administration for up-zoning? We seem to be reliving the trauma of our 1994 up-zoning again in 1999. It is a tradition for Americans to invest in property. The rights of the middle-class property owner must be protected in Southold Town regardless of change in political philosophies or administrations. Now, this is the letter of Mrs. Soulas and, as'I mentioned before, there is a number of other members of our association who are adversely affected and named here. One of them I remember very well - a couple that is one of the most hard workers in Town - who dryclean. The Family and and there's another one on Rocky Point, I believe. On their behalf, as Chairman of the Board and representative to the Hellenic element in the community, I plea with the Board to consider these cases and alleviate the pain and the agony of these people together with the rest of the people - my fellow taxpayers and fellow citizens. I feel the pain for everybody. 1 respectfully submit the rejection to the proposed changes to be adopted. If there is a need for adjustments, let's consider those adjustments because life changes every minute. Life never stands still and we have to make adjustments. Thank you very much. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Could you give us a copy of your statements, please? Andreas Markakis : Yes, I have one copy for each member of the Board. TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: Actually I only need the one. I will stamp it and copy it for everyone for their file. 10/14/99 50 ANDREAS MARKAKIS: Thank you very much. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Do we have everything? Thank you. Yes? ELLEN HUFE: My name is Ellen Hufe and before I wanted to say anything I did just have a few comments about what George Penny said. I'm just going to be reiterating a lot of things. His comments about the trailers bring back personal memories that I'm sure that this Board knows of. We personally have gotten rid of two of them because we were able to expand. I'm talking about my parcel. My husband and I own Future Machine Products in Southold and I just want to reiterate a few things. We've been in business for over thirty years; we have ten employees and they are all local. For the property in question we have aspirations of perhaps future expansion. We bought the property because it was zoned LD and is now, I don't like to say you, but the Cramer recommendation wants to change it to AC. Businesses never stay the same. They either grow, they languish or they die and I hope that we do grow and not languish or die. I believe our business has been an asset to the community and we certainly don't want to discourage Southold; we live here-or employees live here. At some fixture point, with the uniqueness of the parcel we were able to erect a new building, it could be done and not even be seen from Route 48. Even though we generate little traffic now, the limited traffic we do generate wouldn't even be accessed from Route 48 - it could be done from Kenney's Road. That's my comment on this particular parcel. I want to go a little further. I mentioned this the last time that I spoke. The area that this parcel is located in Cramer is talking about 272 acres along Route 48. Of those 272 acres, only Southold 2-C and Southold 3, 12.89 acres are being LI land or LB land changed to AC. Less than 13 acres of all of almost 300 are being changed, up-zoned to AC. I just fail to see any justification, especially since most of this already has business or homes on it. Now, my third comment or third phase of what I wasn't to say is simple layman mentality, anything connected legally, I just put out of my mind and I have difficulty comprehending but, looking at the maps there, Cramer is talking about 272 acres and how much acreage is there on all of Route 48? I really don't know. I was just glancing at the map but there seems to be huge chunks of open land that's already zoned AC. So, to talk about zoning or changing what is there, I just really can't comprehend this. How is this changing of zones beneficial to the town? I venture to say that the majority of the property owners are not merely investors. They have invested their lives in their business. In conclusion I deeply believe that the government governs best that governs least. I believe you intentions of doing this study are honorable and good with no malice. I don't like to say this but the road to Hell was paved with good intentions. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you for your comments. PATRICIA MILOSKI: Regarding my properties County Tax Map #055-5-9.1 Cramer Study public hearing #3. I respectfully request that the current zoning on my property be kept as such as it has been over thirty years. I would like to sure that my letters to the Town Board from August and September, and the statements I have prepared and read on October 5`h and 7a', and today's be read. I have requested that all letters and correspondence regarding the opposition of zone changes to be included in this public hearing as well, and I have more to submit today. I have filed two protest petitions with the 10/14/99 51 Town Clerk's Office regarding Town Law 265. I have cited several examples of why Mr. Cramer's report appears to have been arbitrary and capricious in his proposal to rezone my property. The two structures on my property, the setbacks from the road, the lot size, and that configuration, the surrounding B zone areas clearly indicate how the current (unintelligible) I have explained how changing my zoning from B, which it has been for over 30 years in the Hamlet Business area would be a non-conforming business on a non- conforming lot, and would result in substantial financial hardship. I have attended most of the hearings and the meeting over the last few weeks. This whole proposal just doesn't look right. What is right however is that the Town Board has the duty to insure that the rights of the people are protected. Property rights are clearly defined in this. It was not until the politicians and attorneys decided to redefine the constitution that we, the people, began to have problems. Government granting privileges have really infringed on the people's rights. With this in mind, and the fact that the Route 48 Study was initiated solely from within the Town Board as Billy stated last week's Board meeting. I would like to go on record with the following. I, Pat Miloski, ask the duly elected members of the Southold Town Board and the Southold Town Attorney to preserve and protect my property rights, and my civil rights in the forthcoming vote. That is to vote against Mr. Cramer's recommendation to change my zone. I also ask that you preserve and protect the property rights of all owners who do not wish to have their zoning changed on Route 48. I trust that you reaffirm the fundamentals and principles of the constitution when you cast your vote. Respectfully submitted. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Pat. Mr. Meinke? HOWARD MEINKE: Howard Meinke, North Fork Environmental Council. Thank you Town Board. I just wanted to address this from a different point of view. It seems there is a couple of things happening here. Mr. Cornell's comments were part of it the effort just throw out the report, and go back to status quo, and say the hell with it, and complain about the money we spent. That is a little bit of the baby going out with the bathwater, I think, because the intent of the Cramer Study was all good, and the threat posed by doing nothing is still there, so the question we really have is, is the Cramer Study the right answer? I am not even going to say whether it is or isn't, but I think it is a very difficult project, and I think the fact that the Board launched the study, and it has brought our this many hours of discussion by this many people is a tremendous education process for everybody, and I think the overriding thrust to preserve Southold Town and keep it the way we want it from now forward doesn't end with the Cramer Report. That is really the beginning of a collating of all the big statements of the thirty odd reports. We believe in the mysterious things of the ambiance of the town, the open space, and all that stuff, and trying to make something real happen by getting it on paper, and the fact that it has turned out seemly to be maybe more difficult than everybody thought it would be, that's what happens with big problems, and if you hadn't started with the Cramer Report, you still wouldn't know how difficult it is, so the Cramer Report is a very necessary part of this, and I think the people who say, hey, you wasted our money, forget about it, I think that is wrong. I think it is like tuition at a university, and I think we are getting a hell of lot for our money, and I think we have to go from here forward, and this iridescence by all the people. I can understand that directly affecting everyone emotionally involved, but let's look at it from the other side of 10/14/99 52 the coin. Optimistically everybody is getting input in the program. The Town Board is going to take all this input, and do the right thing with it, and we will be a better town because of all these hearings, and I think we should work very hard to keep to keep it upbeat and positive, because I really think it is. Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Mr. Meinke. Anyone like to address the Town Board, anyone that hasn't spoken yet? Okay, Jim? JIM DINIZIO: I haven't spoken. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: After I said it, I said that was the earlier one. JIM DINIZIO: I am looking at page 2 of the agenda that I picked up there, which starts with Wilton, and goes down to Frank McIntosh. I was looking in this area. The people on Queen Street, there will be absolutely no benefit, or I fail to see the benefit to the town changing them from R40 to R80. I see no benefit. If you could give me some explanation of why, I would probably agree with you. SUPERERVISOR COCHRAN: I will have to vote at the time, but I also don't see any benefit. Okay? You know why? Because half of that property is all wetlands, and wetlands would control anything done on those properties. So, you look at all reasons, Jim. JIM DINIZIO: Reaches the point of Mr. Meinke, because what he said was absolutely (unintelligible) The study and I like studies just like everybody else, because it does give you the opportunity to comment, and although the study is based on other studies the communication that this has wrought has been constructed. Certainly you can look Queen Street, and I am hoping that you are just going to just say, well, the R40 can stay there. The only way the town gains I think maybe they gain one house, because there was a lot change a while ago. That was two acres, and now it is one. On that same page I got to say that the only thing that does make sense to me is a lot 35-1-25 in that would be helpful to the Village of Greenport. That is Business zone, changing it to R80. It is a good thing for the Village of Greenport. There are other properties around there you should consider, the one across from Porky's, also. However, there is a lot behind that that has an approved subdivision for 350 home that you should consider an R80. Also, if you don't consider that then you should consider that Mr. McIntosh's lot, which is right next-door should remain as HD. The Village of Greenport, you know, has sewer, they have water, and you know if you are going to have any kind of intensive places where people can live, apartments, garden apartments, things such as that. The Village of Greenport is going to be probably the place you are going to put them, because you have those utilities there. I know that they are hard to get. I know that certainly the Village is not going to expand their sewer, but I think the plan in Southold Town would be that, so if you could at least consider those. I think that is why we are here to have you consider them. I would just comment on the Mattituck half 2F, the M2 zone, B zones, and R40 zones go into M2, as to SEQRA whether or not that shouldn't fall under what we heard about Mullen Motors the night before last. That seems to me like that is definitely going to have an affect on the environment, and we should look at the M2 zones when you are going to R40 to M2. I 10/14/99 53 would just like to comment that all the comments that I make are hopefully to encourage discussion and is not in anyway meant to be personal, but discuss these changes because they are important. They are important to almost any person in this town. I have heard a lot of discussion concerning these people along the road as being speculators, and I would submit that if they are speculators they are speculating that the Town won't change a zone after they purchase. You have heard Mrs. Hufe. I mean she is a planner. They have a lot. They know that it small. They know that some day their son, whoever, will take over the business and they hope that this business will grow. They have planned accordingly, buying a bigger lot, having the right zone for their machine shop, and paying the taxes, and that is planning. The only speculation comes in is when they hope that the Town Planning Department or the Town Board doesn't change that zone so they can't use that for what they planned for. Thank you very much. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Jim. Anyone else like to address the Town Board? BARBARA SZCZOTKA: Barbara Szczotka, I am here on behalf of the Doroski family. There isn't too much anyone can say that hasn't already been said. I was unable to be here on doctor's orders for the previous hearing. I will give it one last shot. The Doroski family is opposed to the zone changes on their property. I am tired of all this. I am just wishing it would go away. I am tired of feeling like a victim. I am tired of trying to explain myself, and understand about the Cramer Report. I speak and deal with the general public every day at our business. It is saddens me to see how our Town Board has not been able to inform the public properly about the Route 48 changes. I am tired of having people tell me that I am wrong, and that there are no business properties affected by zone changes, and being told that our business is not up for a zone change, that I must be mistaken. One gentleman told me outright that I was wrong. I have been told that this is all about preserving agriculture land, that business properties are not affected. They think it is a great idea to preserve farmland. So do I. Worry about preserving businesses on Route 48. No one even understands the changes in the land uses unless they are directly involved. Do the care? I don't know. Do they understand business would have changes in their land uses? I don't think so. Let's face it you just don't want business in Southold Town unless you are a professional. I wonder what is going to happen when there are no service businesses left here? Are people are going to go to Riverhead? Tanger mall has already made a large impact and deficit in our community, not Route 48. How many stores have closed because they cannot compete with Tanger? Do you think anyone wants to have any type of business knowing this? Look at the empty stores in Riverhead. I have ridden up and down Route 48. I live on Route 48, and have read and looked over Mr. Cramer's report. I don't see who is going to benefit by all of this, even why this is even happening to us. I have looked at maps and charts. I see 2400 acres of agricultural land preserved in the town. This farmland far outweighs the few businesses that you are proposing to change. As a matter of fact you added more residential office properties on Route 48, which in my opinion is going to put up more buildings in time. You have taken two agricultural parcels of land across the street from my home and proposed a residential office zone on these small parcels of land, which if developed will look crowded. Is that preserving agriculture land? I have observed when you were told there were mistakes in Mr. Cramer's report. He 10/14/99 54 could have been a little bit more accurate in his observations. I am disappointed in our Town Board when I sit time after time in the gallery, watch you shuffle in front of me paper work, and appear unconfused by matters at hand. Some of you push away from the desk, and give the impression of disinterest in what we are all saying at the podium. Body language says a lot to me. Presenting these zone changes, and making us come back to Town Hall time after time for hearing after hearing. This is wearing on everyone. Mrs. Cochran Tuesday night I read in the agenda under Communications where there was mentioned three thank you letters, but nothing has ever been mentioned about letters concerning Route 48. Why? It was stated that night that all letters to Town Hall are documented. My question is, how many did you receive in opposition, and how did you receive in favor of the Route 48 proposals, as well as the other Town Board members? Have they been put into the public record in conjunction with these hearings? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes, the have. BARBARA SZCZOTKA: I do hope that you and the other Board members really look at what you are proposing, and what you are going to do to the few businesses on Route 48, and the impact it will make on them? I hope that you have taken into consideration all that has been said in this room over the past few months. You have preserved a lot of farmland in the past. It is still there and it will always be there. But, how about preserving the old time businesses on Route 48? We work hard at what we do and spend many hours servicing our community. Perhaps, now, you as our elected officials can serve us. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Barbara. In relation to files, every piece of information that has come in, in relation to, on the agenda I don't mention your particular letters in relation to the hearing because they are all in these three boxes of files back here. Everything goes to the Town Clerk. She is the keeper of records. So, anything, everything, that comes into Town Hall, yes, is documented. But, everything that relates to the hearing, even though it may come into my office, goes across the hall to Betty's office , it's all stamped, receipt of day. It's all filed, it's all catalogued. The Town Board will receive a complete transcript of all the hearings, everything that's been put in, all the letters received, so yes, we do have all the information. Thank you, Barbara. Anyone else like to address the Town Board? Mr. Williams? JACK WILLIAMS, EAST MARION: At the risk of sounding like a politician, I want to tell you that I share your pain. I know it's been a difficult time for you to recognize the bold initiative that started more than a year and a half ago has turned into some votes here that probably not terribly good news to you Madam Supervisor. I remember the high hopes with which you introduced the moratorium initiative. As a matter or fact, I think I am the only person in the room, other than yourselves who were there that day. I'm sad that we haven't come to a more positive conclusion. But, I would like to say that everybody else in the room is here as a response to that initiative that you started. I think that none of them would be here had you not started it. And I would like to say further, is that I think you owe a great debt of gratitude to all of the people in this room who have been here and have participated in the democratic process and I would hope that before 10/14/99 55 they leave they would get some expression of the thanks of the Town Board for all of the work that they, like you, have done. anyone elsen else has like noto address the Town Board? SUPERVISOR Tyner BRefo Before I take you, if there Williams. Yes, Sir. JACK WEISKOTT: My name is Jack Weiskott. I did speak at one of the hearings. I would just like to reiterate a little bit. I'm probably one of the people who more recently purchased a piece of land that is affected by this proposal. I have only recently gotten my permits to do what I need to do there. But, I haven't even begun construction, there yet. I am just at the early stages. So, it is a little disheartening to me that something that I have worked for for the last 15 years that has finally come tn fruition, di e ely I first on. proposal is worth a whole lot less than I had figured purchase this property, when we were at the bank signing the papers for a long term loan for more money than we had paid for our house, our banker said, oh well, don't worry you 's wo are buying land. It is always going, , twill probably, worth in be worth lesslthan thrthoanless . than, if this vote goes through, P bably, definitely Possibly 20 years from now, it might go back up to what it was worth when we first re, if purchased it. So, I would just like you all to be cognizant of e fat that you ang thato is for somethi vote for this, you are just not voting for a proposal, you are voting literally taking money from the people that are affected by it. A lot of money, not just a little money. I am also, somewhat disheartened by the fact that this study seems very narrow and arbitrary. We were just talking about the few properties that are located along Route 48, we are not talking about the whole town. What's wrong with the Main Road? Having a similar study to take care of that? The Main Road is more developed on Roue 48ut I 48 is. I feel sort of like I am being singled out because I own property o don't think would mind as badly if the zones were changed all over the whole town because then everyone is sharing this burden and it would be a town-wide decision and a town-wide consensus. But, this isn't. This is a very narrow population, a very small percentage of the town. When I do hear people discussing it, everyone that I have seemed to talk to thinks that this is a preserving open space initiative which I am dubious of that anyway because we are only dealing with tiny little properties. We are dea inng do nmall parcels along Route 48 most of which have buildings on them already. is affected but it is a 6 acre parcel and we are talking about 1 /2 acre on my property which by this which is the road frontage which is zoned light business which has been since I bought it in the first place which is one of the reasons that the bank gave me the loan in the first place because they saw that it was a valuable property and they felt secure in doing it. I don't think that I could get a loan right now, if this zoning goes through. But, I feel that one in the town everyone thinks it is an open space plan, which I don't say. But, also every who is not a property owner on Route 48 who is in favor of open space thinks, Oh, this is not so bad. But they are not sharing the burden of it. They are not paying for it. The people who are here are paying for it. I think it's an unfair burden placed on a small percentage of the population. A burden that we are supposed to provide the view and the vista for the rest of them. That's all I have to say. 10/14/99 56 SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board? Mr. Foster? ARTIE FOSTER: I am not going to read this letter that I already read the other day and put into the record. But, I guess there is just a few things that I want to go over about it. I own the parcel in Mattituck 121-5-3 which is not being affected directly by a zone change. But it is going to be affected by the zone change around it. I am in a light business district and I'm the only one in that entire area that isn't being affected with the exception of the pre-existing little shopping center across the street. And I am not suggesting that you do affect me and change me like everybody else because I am already non-conforming. But, this is going to affect me in other ways, such as the way I operate my business and the expansion of my business. Now, Mr. Williams mentioned high hopes when this all began. Well, my high hopes, started about 20 years ago when I was able to buy this land and operate my business without having to pay somebody rent that I wasn't going to get back. This was actually something which I was working for. When the property on either side and across the street of me was changed to R-80, it affected me because of the way I run my business and the type of business that I have. So, basically, I am.. oing to be then in a residential neighborhood. Right now, I can't put those trucks and trailers in my backyard. But, I am going to be putting them in somebody else's backyard. Now, people tell me, don't worry about it, who the hell is every going to build there right on the Main Road. Well I have been here a long time and I have been in business a long time. I have seen the town grow, some for the good and some for the bad. I probably even had a hand in some of the bad because of the kind of business that I am in. I might have done some of the work. I certainly don't' run out and look to do that. If someone comes to me and has a permit to do something in an area that has a potential to stay open and be green, who am I to say, well I am not going to do this job because I don't think you should build this building. But, I know, sooner or later, someone is going to build next to me, if it changed to R-80, when there just isn't anymore left, it becomes a premium, just like the waterfront land. You could buy an acre on the water for $30,000. when I first started on this property. I paid $3,000. for a wooded lot which is unheard of today. This land is going to be sold and is going to be built on and that's really when my problems begin, or I should say, my son's. I am in the process of bringing Tom into the business and he is also going to buy land. Well, now I am going to be selling him a piece of non-conforming land that we all know about. But, it is going to be even more non-conforming as far as the neighborhood. It won't be long before they are dictating the hours of my business, how I run my business, how much dust I create, how much noise I create. I am in this room, probably not as much as I should be, but a lot, and I see the concerns of neighbors. The other night with Mullen's, people worried about the truck unloading cars in the middle of the night. I fully understand that, how they feel. I am in a residential neighborhood now, and if a dog is barking at 4:00 a.m. in the morning, I happen to be up at that hour, but, I don't have a dog because I don't want to bother my neighbors with it. But, I know how people can get concerned. I feel that if you don't want the planes to fly, or you don't want to hear the noise, don't move in at the end of the runway. But, sooner or later, somebody is going to move in at the end of the runway because there isn't anyplace else to go. I can just see what is going to happen and I don't understand the rational of in 1989 when this Master Plan was adopted, the property that I am on now was changed from the highest business use to the lowest business use which made me non-conforming, but I am there so I can still 10/14/99 57 operate. But, now we are going to change that light business use to a residential office. I am sorry to R-80, low density housing. It is in an area where there is a big wood working shop behind me. There is a small strip mall deli across the street. Tom Talbot has his agriculture machine repair building next door to the east side of that. The Wine Garden Restaurant which isn't open now, but which I am sure will be a restaurant again before long, or operating as a restaurant and we are going to block these houses in the middle of it and I just don't think that, in all fairness to the people around, plus the property owners that should be done because of the value, the area isn't really condusive to a vista and I don't want to go through the fact that I was the worst in town again. I think that it should be considered that that particular area be left alone, along with a lot of the other areas that already house small businesses. By changing that particular zone where these businesses exist, is not going to enhance any sort of a vista which is already pretty much in place as I mentioned the last time that I spoke from Mattituck east to Doroski's. To change me or next to me or the Doroski property, or Mr. Dart, or Mr. Penny out on the comer of 48, or even George Penny's zoning is not going to do anything for the vista. It is just going to do a tremendous amount to the value of land. It is going to decrease it. One thing that is a little upsetting is, in addition to the non-conforming business of the neighbors... The potential neighbors are going to run businesses, that is my son, who has high hopes, as I did and I have been successful, and I am sure that he will be. He wants to perhaps expand. He could expand by perhaps 15 or maybe 30 But going to the Planning Board to do that upsets me because now we are going to get into public hearings again and these potential neighbors are just not going to let that happen. It is going to be a long drawn out process that will probably just end in no results, other than he stays the same way he is now. The other thing that kind of bothered me and I don't want to beat on you too hard, but, as far as doing the right thing, as I think Mr. Meinke mentioned. I kind of feel myself, I don't see how, and I kind of know that everyone has their mind made up that this is going to happen. So, maybe, we are all wasting our time here, but I certainly think that the input from all of these hard working people that put you people in office, that have supported this town through all of these years, is considered. I am sure that it means a lot more to them than it means to people who are not affected. But, this is something that should be shared by everybody because we all pay our share of taxes. Certainly the business people pay a little bit more in taxes that the other people do. I think that this study was probably done with all good intent, but, I don't think it is right to affect all of these small business people in they way, economically. Especially in my case, my son is just a new house, a new mortgage, and soon a new family and soon he is going to have his hands full with all that without having to worry about preserving his place of business and having to worry about his potential neighbors busting his chops about the hours of operation. Mr. Cramer is a brave man to come into this room, or maybe I shouldn't identify him, maybe nobody knows that he is here. All right, well, that's about it. I just certainly hope that you do take a little consideration for all of these people who have addressed you before you make any moves. Thank you, SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone who hasn't spoken the first time like to address the Board? Mr. Dickerson.. 10/14/99 58 KEN DICKERSON: My name is Ken Dickerson, I am affected by the proposal. My property is not even within the view of Route 48 and I really do not understand why my property is under zone change? Maybe someone could tell me why? COUNCILMAN MOORE: Actually I think in the cases of the pieces in the Peconic area that you are talking about, including yours. It was the recognition that, if you chose to continue to operate your business as you want to, especially if we had adopted the expansion provision for additional area. You could be there for as long as you wanted, pass it onto your family, or sell it, as you want to, as you operate. In all honesty, it would be hard to believe, but the thought was providing and creating a hamlet center or potential down the road, you can operate and today doesn't change anything for you. That was my thought. They are providing an opportunity, if down the road, somewhere the growth out there is such that Peconic can be and grow as a little hamlet. There's a post office there, and some little shops. There was an opportunity if it suited your purposes to use or sell it as hamlet business. I thought that was a positive thing to offer to people around the hamlet of Peconic. Another proposal was to go from a R-40 piece to a RO piece. That was really the thought behind it. It was an opportunity, not an attempt to disquelch or put the phone down on your existing operation. KEN DICKERSON: Well, I just would like to say that I am against this because I have plans to expand in the future. How much I really don't know. It depends on the economy. I believe that government should work with people, not make it harder for people who are there to continue on. Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Tyler.... TYLER CORNELL: Tyler Cornell. Ruth Enterprises, the Cornell family. Mr. Moore I have to dig into you every time that you tell people that it doesn't affect the existing operation. You are right, it doesn't affect the existing operation, but it wouldn't affect the existing operation if they leased their office also. People have invested in the Town and bought the property. If they want to sell it separate from the business, they lose. Now, that's what I wanted to say. I love being en entrepreneur. I have been an entrepreneur since I was 12 years old. I have gone through some incredibly hard times being an entrepreneur, but one of the greatest things about it is that it goes right back to the American constitution. It's a way to express yourself, to say this is what I want to do. I want to be free. I want to make my own decisions. I wanted to try my best to make money. Most of the time, it comes out to surviving which is what everyone here is trying to do, not make a million or anything of that sort. But just to survive and raise their families. As I mentioned in the beginning a couple of weeks ago, I hate politics. I hate it across the board, I have always tried to stay away from it as much as possible. Now, I am kind of dragged into it. If you call this politics, I don't know. I call it defensive property and civil liberties. But, I never went into any of that about why I didn't like politics. But, I always seemed that one way or another that politics was connected to big money and it just hurt my image of America to a certain extent. Now, as I am seeing things go through here, I am realizing that a lot them might just be complete coincidence across the board. And maybe President Clinton didn't do all of the bad things that they are talking about the 10/14/99 59 wrecked my idealism that I had of America. But, I would like to stress one thing in particular for the public once again. I think the media is here and it is helpful. It is amazing how politics inter-twines with business to a certain extent. Like I said many times, perhaps a coincidence, but that new industrial park that has not been re-zoned in Cutchogue, if this goes through, is going to worth a fortune. It is unreal. The other point of it is like I said I didn't ever want to mix business with politics and all. But, I am sitting here and I am learning about exactly about what may happen in this town. Mr. Penny brought up the greatest idea in the world for an entrepreneur. I did not want to do in the slightest bit, it just blows my mind about the whole thing. But, when I was down in Florida setting up the company that I just finished up and moved back here on. I met the President and founder of POTS Portable On Demand Storage Systems. I mean if this goes through, I probably won't do it, but when work gets out that everything is non-conforming you know somebody from Brookhaven is going to move their franchise operation out here. I mean do we want this to go through, and can I help the Town by maybe calling this guy and getting the franchise out here so I can actually work with the Town to get the writing off of the sides of these portable storage units that are going to be laying all over the place and looking like Queens. I mean we are all afraid of Brookhaven. This is going to be like Queens. I mean it is just going to be a dump with these things everywhere Do you understand what I am saying. I mean everyone is looking at me kind of blank. But this will happen, I mean I have been an entrepreneur for years, I mean I don't want to do it, But, if I don't want to do it, then somebody is going to do it and it probably will be somebody from Brookhaven or some where's else who already has a franchise out there. Everybody looks pretty blank? SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: What do you want? Do you want a response that we do or don't understand, we are taking your comments Tyler. TYLER CORNELL: O.K. I appreciate that. Please consider that because although you maybe saving the vistas, you are going to have to look over a 10 ft. portable storage unit and I commend Mr. Penny for bringing that up. It is very true. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. TYLER CORNELL: Thank you. SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You are welcome, Tyler. Anyone else like to address the hearing? If not, I will close the hearing and we will take a break for lunch and then we will be meeting with Mr. Cramer and discussing some input on the uses. We will probably be back at 2:00 P.M. It will be a workshop of the Board. It will not be for public input at that time. It is a session for us to do our work. Thank you. Vuild Tow 1 rk