HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-05/13/2025 PH 1
1 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK
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TOWN BOARD
4 REGULAR MEETING
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7 Southold, New York
8 May 13 , 2025
7 : 00 P . M.
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14 B E F O R E :
15
16 ALBERT KRUPSKI JR, SUPERVISOR
17 LOUISA P . EVANS, JUSTICE
18 JILL DOHERTY, COUNCILWOMAN
19 GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN
20 BRIAN O . MEALY, COUNCILMAN
21 ANNE H . SMITH, COUNCILWOMAN
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MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 2
1 INDEX TO TESTIMONY
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3 Chapter 280 Accessory Apartments 3-31
4 Waiver of Hotel Moratorium 31-74
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6 Public Comments 74- 96
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MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 3
1 CHAPTER 280 ACCESSORY APARTMENTS
2 TOWN CLERK DENIS NONCARROW :
3 Public hearing, Accessory Apartments .
4 This public hearing considers an
5 introductory law, Local Law Number 6 of
6 2025 to amend Chapter 280 Zoning,
7 Section 13 , entitled, Accessory
8 Apartments . By, Number One, eliminating
9 the three-year minimum requirement to
10 hold a Certificate of Occupancy for an
11 accessory structure . Number Two,
12 extending the rental permit duration to
13 two years . Number Three, requiring a
14 lease for an accessory apartment to be a
15 term of no less than one year, and no
16 more than two years , and Number Four,
17 requiring that covenants and
18 restrictions be filed prior to obtaining
19 a rental permit . Legal notice for
20 public hearings are published no less
21 than 10 days prior to the public hearing
22 in an eligible legal town newspaper .
23 The Town Clerk ' s Office has received the
24 Affidavit of Service from the newspaper
25 indicating that the notice with properly
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 4
1 noticed . The proposed action requires
2 notice to the Suffolk County Planning
3 Commission . The Town Clerk ' s file
4 includes the response of the Planning
5 Commission dated April 7 , 2025 ,
6 determining the action to be a matter of
7 local determination . The proposed
8 action was referred to the Planning
9 Department for a SEQRA determination and
10 the action was considered a Type 2
11 action under SEQRA. Not requiring
12 further review and exempt from LWRP
13 review pursuant to Chapter 268 . The
14 Town Clerk ' s file also includes an
15 Affidavit of Posting of the public
16 notice on the Town ' s bulletin board at
17 Town Hall . Finally, letters in support
18 of the proposed local law have been
19 received from the Zoning Board of
20 Appeals by letter dated April 27 , 2025 ,
21 and the Planning Board by letter dated
22 March 28 , 2025 .
23 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : And,
24 Mr . Supervisor, those notice documents
25 are in order .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 5
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you . All right, so we have a hearing
3 for the Accessory Apartment change to
4 the law . Would anyone like to comment
5 on this hearing?
6 KATIE STOKES : My name is Katie
7 Stokes , and I am a resident of Southold
8 and a member of the Southold Peconic
9 Civic Association . I ' m also a member of
10 the North Fork Civics Subcommittee on
11 Affordable Housing . And recently some
12 of us gathered to research what has
13 worked and what hasn ' t worked in other
14 communities that have implemented ADU
15 policies . I , and my colleagues on the
16 subcommittee support Southold ' s goal of
17 encouraging more ADU ' s and hope that we
18 can learn from other towns and cities
19 how to make ADU ' s as affordable and
20 practicable as possible, both to
21 homeowners and to renters . We support
22 the policy of encouraging more ADU ' s in
23 the Town of Southold to help relieve the
24 tight housing market and to provide more
25 Affordable Housing . When I researched
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 6
1 cities and towns that have adopted
2 pro-ADU policies , I learned that most of
3 them ended up very disappointed by how
4 few ADU ' s were built or became
5 available . But one example I found of a
6 city that eagerly embraced ADU ' s and
7 large numbers of them or created, was
8 Los Angeles . But that is because LA
9 allows ADU ' s to be rented out short-term
10 as Airbnb ' s , which is obviously not what
11 any of us want in Southold . We are
12 delighted that Southold ' s ADU policy
13 will not allow any short-term rentals
14 for Airbnb ' s . Well done . So I decided
15 to reach out to the housing people in
16 East Hampton because I read that they
17 had adopted pro-ADU policies several
18 years ago and have already revised them
19 three times and are in the process of
20 possibly revising them again because
21 they ' ve had so little traction getting
22 homeowners to build ADU ' s . So I
23 contacted a very helpful community
24 development program analyst with East
25 Hampton ' s Town Office of Housing and
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 7
1 Community Development and several of our
2 ideas are based on what we learned from
3 their lessons . So one suggestion we
4 have for Southold, for Southold ' s ADU
5 policy, is that it should allow people
6 who own second homes in Southold to
7 build ADU ' s on their property . The
8 primary homeowners should not have to be
9 a full-time resident in order to build
10 an ADU on their property . A requirement
11 of full-time residency takes too many
12 properties out of the pool of possible
13 ADU sites . Of course we agree with the
14 requirement that only one residence on a
15 residential property can be rented, a
16 property owner should not be able to
17 rent out both the ADU and the primary
18 residence . And this is one of the
19 suggestions of the Committee on East
20 Hampton that is reviewing their ADU data
21 right now . A second suggestion for
22 Southold, aimed at ensuring that ADU ' s
23 do not become market rate housing, is to
24 put a cap on the allowable rent for any
25 and all renters . This is what East
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 8
1 Hampton does for their ADU ' s . A third
2 suggestion is designed to help offset
3 the costs to a homeowner of building an
4 ADU . We suggest that the Town consider
5 adopting the State Enabling Act, which
6 would provide the homeowner with a 1000
7 exemption from any increased tax burden
8 as a result of the value of the ADU .
9 This tax exemption is only on the
10 additional value of the ADU, not the
11 main property, and begins to sunset
12 after five years . As we understand the
13 proposed ADU regulation, we also
14 understand that the unattached ADU ' s are
15 to be rented only to two categories of
16 people, family members , or people listed
17 on the Housing Registry . We suggest
18 considering also maybe expanding the
19 list to include senior citizens and to
20 people who have proof of employment in
21 the Town of Southold . Our subcommittee
22 would like to look into this and other
23 components further . We ask that the
24 board hold this hearing open for
25 additional comments , so that we can do
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 9
1 some additional research and meet with
2 appropriate Town Committee members
3 before making any further specific
4 recommendations .
5 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
6 you .
7 CAROL INLEY : My name is Carol
8 Inley . I reside in Greenport West . I
9 serve as the President of the Greenport
10 Civic Association and I ' m also a member
11 of the North Fork Civic Coalition and
12 its subcommittee on housing . I ' m
13 speaking tonight as an individual though
14 and I ' m not on behalf of either the
15 Greenport Civic or the Civic Coalition .
16 Our subcommittee questions the current
17 requirement that the living area of the
18 accessory apartment must be on one
19 floor . We ask that you consider
20 amending this requirement for existing
21 accessory structures that already have a
22 loft space or a second floor allowing
23 the construction of a two-story
24 apartment . Similarly, if the
25 residential property allows for and the
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 10
1 homeowner owners willing to construct a
2 new two-story accessory structure, why
3 not also permit a two-story apartment?
4 Adjusting this provision would increase
5 the likelihood that units larger than a
6 studio or small one bedroom could be
7 created, of course, keeping within the
8 750 square foot back zone . I also
9 recommend increasing the minimum square
10 footage for accessory apartments to 350
11 square feet . The current minimum of 220
12 square feet is extremely small . Smaller
13 than most hotel rooms , which don ' t
14 include a kitchen area . And lastly, as
15 a way to provide for the seasonal and
16 contract workers that we depend on, w
17 propose allowing a separate minimum
18 lease length category of six months for
19 someone who shows proof of employment in
20 the Town of Southold . This is a
21 provision that East Hampton is
22 considering adding it to its ADU
23 program . Thank you, and we look forward
24 to presenting you with additional
25 suggestions following this year .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 11
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you, Carol . Anyone else like to address
3 the Board?
4 DINNI GORDON : Good evening . Very
5 glad to be here . I ' m very glad you ' re
6 considering this an expansion of what
7 you have now . I ' m a Greenport resident,
8 a member of the ZBA for the Village, a
9 member of the Civic Association Board,
10 which Carol heads and Chair of the new
11 Housing Committee that ' s just been
12 appointed by the Mayor for the Village .
13 And I ' m really speaking sort of in the
14 context of the Village discussion, which
15 is ongoing about ADU ' s .
16 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Can you just
17 state your name for the record?
18 DINNI GORDON : Oh I ' m sorry, I
19 didn ' t do that . Dinni Gordon,
20 G-O-R-D-O-N . Something that we ' ve been
21 talking a little bit about in Greenport
22 is that this is a fairly expensive
23 process for the homeowner to turn an
24 existing building into . We are talking
25 about it almost entirely exclusively in
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 12
1 the context of pre-existing structures .
2 Greenport has a lot of old houses with
3 old barns behind them that haven ' t been
4 used or developed, or maybe they ' ve been
5 partially used or developed . And the
6 possibility of using some of these
7 structures for accessory dwelling units
8 is appealing to many people, but it ' s an
9 expensive and complex process for many
10 homeowners . So our recommendation is of
11 -- my recommendation . I am not speaking
12 for Greenport in general or for the
13 Civic Association, is that it ' d be a
14 very simple process . That you make it
15 an ADU, as a matter of right . Except of
16 course it has to comply with, you know,
17 height restrictions and things like
18 that . That you have in effect . But
19 that it be as simple a process as
20 possible . That it be a matter as of
21 right to construct such a dwelling unit .
22 And also that you figure out some way to
23 provide technical assistance from either
24 staff or volunteers , many of the people
25 that we would find who have -- we have
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 13
1 already found who are interested in
2 doing this as homeowners , are elderly
3 people who are thinking either about
4 having a unit that is going to be rented
5 by somebody else unknown to them or they
6 are people who are thinking about moving
7 into an accessory themselves , and either
8 renting out the principal house or using
9 it for their family . So I think
10 technical assistance in figuring out how
11 to do these things is probably very
12 important . Maybe especially for the
13 older homeowner . And there is some
14 financial help for that sort of thing .
15 You may know that New York Forward now
16 has a technical assistance program .
17 It ' s for other things . It ' s for
18 multi-family housing, but I understand
19 that its standards can be quite
20 flexible . So, you know, plans , leases ,
21 insurance, finding builders , finding
22 lawyers . A technical assistant person
23 on the staff who could help with that
24 could perhaps make this a much more
25 attractive possibility and avoid what we
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 14
1 are seeing at the national level , which
2 is that cities that adopt the ADU
3 program are not getting many takers . So
4 that ' s what -- that ' s my recommendation .
5 Thank you very much .
6 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
7 you .
8 CHERYL O ' MARA : I ' m going to segue
9 what you were saying . I ' m here
10 representing the Southold Town Housing
11 Advisory Commission tonight . And I know
12 there was a program that we had that
13 they were starting a Long Island Housing
14 Partnership to help with ADU ' s . And I
15 believe money was given -- earmarked for
16 Southold Town for that . Has any ADU ' s
17 been built? Do we know what ' s going,
18 what ' s --
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : You
20 could call the office for the specific
21 numbers . Some of that money was used .
22 There weren ' t too many takers .
23 CHERYL O ' MARA : There weren ' t too
24 many takers .
25 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : The
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 15
1 Town passed an ADU law almost 20 years
2 ago . Yeah, and they haven ' t been too
3 many takers . So I ' m you know that was
4 interesting to hear some of the comments
5 --
6 CHERYL O ' MARA : Yeah, because I
7 believe there there ' s money there . You
8 know, for people who want to do this and
9 are having a problem, you know having
10 issues affording it -- you know, we need
11 to keep getting that that money from New
12 York State , the Housing Trust Fund, if
13 we can . Because that would help
14 residents who are trying to do this .
15 The other thing that Dinni brought up
16 and which I was thinking about I know
17 that we ' re in the process of
18 interviewing somebody to be our
19 Community Housing person . Are we
20 getting close ?
21 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well ,
22 no .
23 CHERYL O ' MARA : No, how come ?
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : It ' s a
25 long story .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 16
1 CHERYL O ' MARA : Oh, man .
2 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : We are
3 committed to it .
4 CHERYL O ' MARA : You ' re committed to
5 it . Yeah, because if we have somebody
6 like that, that person, that ' s the
7 person we can ask all these questions .
8 That person could be the one that has
9 this information . Oh, you can get a
10 grant here , or you can get a grant
11 there, to make it more doable for local
12 people .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well ,
14 and it ' s not even that simple as getting
15 money, because that money that comes
16 from the government has many strings
17 attached .
18 CHERYL O ' MARA : Oh, I know that
19 too .
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : And so
21 it didn ' t necessarily make it easier for
22 people . So I think the suggestion of
23 having someone help with the legal end
24 of it, all , I don ' t know if stumbling
25 block for some people I ' m thinking they
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 17
1 were they were a lot of help you know
2 you got to go through the Health
3 Department . You go to New York Building
4 Code .
5 CHERYL O ' MARA : Sure . You can end
6 up with all cesspools too .
7 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : There ' s
8 a there ' s a lot of complicating factors
9 with a lot of partners in that .
10 CHERYL O ' MARA : I know there ' s a
11 lot of pieces to it . So that ' s why I ' m
12 thinking if we can get that housing
13 professional , that person can reach out
14 to all the legalities and all the
15 different things to give information to
16 people who are trying to do this .
17 Because I think it ' s a great idea . And
18 when you brought up elderly people
19 wanting to do something like that,
20 that ' s great . You know, communities
21 where you have younger people helping
22 older people is a wonderful thing . I
23 mean, we do it all the time here anyway,
24 but, you know -- so, yeah, those were my
25 couple of questions . I hope everything
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 18
1 gets moving .
2 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : We ' re
3 committed to it .
4 CHERYL O ' MARA : So it ' s just --
5 yeah -- yeah because I think it ' s a
6 great idea . I think this it ' s a great
7 idea . And I think the pathway if it ' s
8 made if there ' s somebody to help people
9 who want to do an ADU, along the way
10 like the community and Community Housing
11 person that ' s going to create more
12 ADU ' s . Because I think people just kind
13 of feel lost . You get to a certain
14 point and you just don ' t know . I mean
15 I ' ve talked to a few people in the
16 community, I just like kind of throw
17 their hands up in the air because for us
18 Joe Q public, we don ' t know all the ins
19 and outs .
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Sure .
21 CHERYL O ' MARA : So as soon as you
22 can get that housing person . That would
23 be great .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
25 you .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 19
1 CHERYL O ' MARA : They ' ll be busy .
2 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
3 you for the encouragement .
4 CHERYL O ' MARA : Thank you .
5 CAROLINE SCHRANK : Hi , my name is
6 Caroline Schrank . And I am a recipient
7 of the LIHP ADU grant . It ' s a $ 107 , 000
8 grant, and I ' m stuck . Because you ' re
9 not allowing ADU ' s , yet you accepted
10 this grant, which I don ' t understand how
11 that happened . Talking about help for
12 these grants , it probably took me about
13 five hours to do the application with
14 help of someone . It was a really
15 difficult application to do . It had a
16 six-month deadline, which I ' ve gotten
17 extended . I also found out that I need
18 a new septic system . So I received a
19 grant for $30 , 000 from Save Our Water
20 and another additional grant for
21 $20 , 000 . I can ' t skew out my new septic
22 without knowing if I can build an ADU .
23 So I ' m gonna lose about $ 157 , 000 in
24 grants , which will be a way for me to
25 save my house and live here forever . I
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 20
1 know that you allow an addition to a
2 house, which honestly I think kinda
3 doesn ' t look as good and actually
4 infringes on my privacy and the person
5 renting ' s privacy . I do have a
6 structure in my backyard that has a C of
7 O, but I ' m only allowed to spend half
8 the money of the value of this
9 structure, which is about probably
10 $ 10 , 000 . So I can spend $5 , 000 to do an
11 ADU, but how am I supposed to get an ADU
12 up to code with $5 , 000 . So I don ' t
13 understand . My question to you is , why
14 did you accept grant that isn ' t usable?
15 Why did I spend hours filling out an
16 application for this grant and why did I
17 spend hours getting a grant for a new
18 septic system? I would like to help
19 people in this community with low-income
20 housing . It also allows me to save my
21 house with my income changes . So why
22 did you accept a grant that that isn ' t
23 usable?
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I know
25 that we ' ve met and talked about this and
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 21
1 met with the Chief Building Inspector
2 and it is difficult for -- not every --
3 not everyone has an easy time with that
4 grant process . And that ' s why we ' ve had
5 a few people that have been successful
6 with it .
7 CAROLINE SCHRANK : How have they
8 been successful if -- have they added on
9 to their houses or have they done a
10 separate ADU because with a three-year
11 wait, there ' s no way the grant will
12 suffice ? It will suffice the grant .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I don ' t
14 know . And the original ADU law that we
15 passed was for -- the original intent
16 was for people with larger homes that no
17 longer needed that much space . And then
18 they could cut that home into one small
19 apartment for one family member or the
20 other and then retain the same house and
21 have it owner occupied and still be a
22 residence for someone who lives there
23 full-time . That was the original as of
24 right . You wouldn ' t have to go to the
25 ZBA for any sort of approval for that .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 22
1 That was a -- and honestly it wasn ' t as
2 widely accepted as we thought it would
3 be . Because we thought it would be more
4 convenient than trying to renovate and a
5 different structure on your property
6 that would require you to go to the ZBA.
7 Because then it does have a bigger
8 impact on maybe neighbors . So I mean,
9 you and I have spoken about why it
10 didn ' t work for you . And I think you ' ve
11 heard . It hasn ' t worked for not only
12 our community, but a lot of other
13 communities .
14 CAROLINE SCHRANK : Is there a way
15 to make an exception for people who
16 receive the grant that you accepted with
17 the three-year wait for a C of O mean
18 you accepted a grant that ' s used --
19 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : That ' s what
20 we ' re doing here tonight . We ' re taking
21 the three year wait off . Okay . So
22 that ' s going to fix that part . So it ' s
23 no going to fix the other part that you
24 have with the $5 , 000 , you know . But so
25 somebody after tonight, somebody can
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 23
1 apply to build a separate ADU and not
2 have to wait .
3 CAROLINE SCHRANK : So I ' ll tear
4 down the structure that I have .
5 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : And start
6 from scratch .
7 CAROLINE SCHRANK : And start a
8 variance .
9 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Then you ' ll
10 be able to do it that way .
11 CAROLINE SCHRANK : It ' s a -- it ' s
12 --
13 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Right .
14 CAROLINE SCHRANK : Okay . Thank
15 you .
16 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Thank you .
17 We know we have a lot of work to do on
18 this and this is just the beginning --
19 just the people that are in the queue
20 for the grant that like you are , have
21 the obstacle of this three year wait .
22 So we ' re taking this off . So some
23 people can move ahead and as we
24 implement and put the wheels on our
25 framework of our housing plan, we ' re
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 24
1 going to fix a lot of stuff . But it ' s
2 just gonna take time .
3 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Anyone
4 else like to speak? Please .
5 DAVID JONES : David Snowdon Jones
6 from the Village of Orient . Just a
7 comment on something that was proposed
8 earlier, which is to put a rental cap on
9 ADU ' s . I get the idea of that, but if
10 we ' re trying to encourage people to
11 build ADU ' s with the cost of building,
12 setting a cap to it wouldn ' t be
13 encouraging .
14 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well ,
15 the original intent was to provide for a
16 family member and you ' d have to provide
17 a rental permit every year to prove who
18 you ' re renting to . And I think the
19 original intent and the original
20 interest was that you would rent to a
21 family member for like a dollar a year .
22 Not to provide so much income, but to
23 provide housing for someone who needed
24 it . So you ' d have -- you know, maybe
25 grandparents living in the house, making
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 25
1 a smaller apartment for a young couple
2 starting out type of thing . Or someone
3 from the Affordable Housing list . So
4 you would imagine someone who ' s on the
5 Affordable Housing list wouldn ' t be able
6 to pay a great deal in rent . So that ' s
7 that was the original intent because
8 what you ' re doing basically on that
9 property is doubling your density . And
10 so there ' s got to be some community
11 benefit to be derived from that for --
12 to getting that benefit of doubling
13 density on a single property .
14 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : We set the
15 cap every year from the HUD, every
16 Spring they usually give us the -- up --
17 because they up it every year a little
18 bit .
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : So
20 that ' s what it ' s , you know, based on .
21 DAVID JONES : The area median
22 income and it sounds like everything
23 you ' ve got in place already, if you ' re
24 renting it to a family, it just seems
25 like the a bit redundant . But if you
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 26
1 have to impose it because what that, is
2 you know . Requiring you to do, it was
3 just a thought . Anywhere on that
4 comment .
5 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Yeah .
6 DAVID JONES : Does this Board
7 oversee the Village of Greenport?
8 DAVID JONES : No, we don ' t . Only
9 we do the public safety . We do the
10 policing there .
11 DAVID JONES : Thank you .
12 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : And our
13 Housing Program over reaches the Village
14 of Greenport is -- the Housing Program
15 we share, that they can -- they can
16 enjoy our Housing Program as well .
17 DAVID JONES : Okay . Thank you .
18 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Any
19 other comment on this hearing?
20 (No Response) .
21 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I ' m
22 going to look at the Zoom there and see
23 if there ' s any hands up . If there ' s
24 anyone watching on Zoom would like to
25 make a comment?
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 27
1 (No Response) .
2 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : And I
3 don ' t see any . And so if there ' s no
4 comment there on Zoom or in the
5 audience, I ' ll take a motion to close
6 the hearing?
7 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : I ' ll make a
8 motion to close .
9 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : And I ' ll
10 second . Just with the idea, that we see
11 this as an incremental step to improving
12 our program. And I think some of the
13 issues that have been raised, we can
14 hopefully incorporate later .
15 Personally, I ' m very interested in the
16 -- and this would require State
17 Legislation to look at some sort of tax
18 relief for accessory apartments . But
19 then we also run into the issue on the
20 Town level of making the Town whole with
21 taxes , and potentially using Community
22 Housing funds to fill that gap .
23 Essentially saying there ' s a lot of work
24 to be done in this area . But the
25 removal of the three-year CO requirement
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 28
1 is kind of an incremental step that the
2 Town has been making over time .
3 Originally, you were required to have a
4 CO before ' 96 , and then I think it was
5 reduced to 10 years , and then I think it
6 was reduced to 3 years . Now we ' re
7 wiping it out . I am interested in
8 seeing if there is a mechanism to
9 implement this retroactively, to
10 potentially remove your problem, but
11 there needs to be some legal research
12 that ' s done there . I think at least
13 right now, if we can get the benchmark
14 set now we can move forward in the
15 future in a better position, so I will
16 second it .
17 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : And I
18 encourage people to go on our website
19 and try to find our website . It ' s hard
20 to find . Find the Housing Plan . It ' s
21 well thought out and we ' re working on
22 that . And I would also encourage you to
23 come listen to our Housing Commission .
24 We meet once a month at 4 : 30 . You can
25 find that on the calendar because we
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 29
1 talk about all these things that you
2 brought up today .
3 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : I ' d like
4 to add, Jill and I are both liaisons to
5 the Southold Town Housing Advisory
6 Commission . So we are interested in all
7 of the comments we heard tonight and
8 appreciate members of the Commission
9 being here . There are a lot of really
10 good ideas that I think we can begin to
11 incorporate into our practices that
12 don ' t require big legislation . That can
13 actually just help us move along . And
14 secondly, I think when we accept grant
15 funds , which sound very challenging, it
16 is helpful to us as Town Board members
17 to know what questions to begin asking
18 when we do get offers . Whether it ' s
19 from the State or the County, to be sure
20 we ' re not adding obstacles and building
21 false hopes . So I appreciate the
22 challenging feedback that you provided
23 to us . Thank you .
24 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : And I just
25 want to say I appreciate the testimony
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 30
1 from Katie and from Dinni and Carol .
2 Just that in your own, individually you
3 are great community leaders and on
4 important subjects . And collectively we
5 all say, wow, step back, we ' re looking
6 to see what you do and what you share .
7 And I hope you can share your testimony
8 and some of your fact finding with the
9 Town Boards . Perhaps you could submit
10 it to the Town Clerk so we all can see
11 the work or perhaps this will be
12 developed into a Greenport Civic talk or
13 Southold Peconic talk . And I ' m very
14 interested in what you share and you do
15 make us smarter . Just me standing next
16 to you all makes me smarter . So I just
17 appreciate that you ' re actively trying
18 to engage with us and we know -- we
19 don ' t act -- We decide certain things
20 within Southold bounds , but I freely
21 admit, I ' m not an expert on all these
22 things and I want to be smarter . I want
23 to learn and thank you for the
24 opportunity . It takes courage to stand
25 up before the Board . And I think we ' re
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 31
1 very nice and warm and welcoming . But
2 sometimes that can be ominous and it ' s
3 tough to stand up in public . But thank
4 you for standing and delivering those
5 facts and something that we can really
6 listen to . So I appreciate what you ' ve
7 added .
8 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thanks
9 for not growling . All right . So I have
10 a motion and a second . Do we have a
11 second?
12 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I think I
13 second .
14 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Okay .
15 This is to close the hearing .
16 All in favor?
17 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Aye .
18 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
19 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
20 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
21 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
22 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
23 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
24 WAIVER OF HOTEL MORATORIUM
25 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 32
1 right . Mr . Clerk, could you read the
2 notice?
3 TOWN CLERK DENIS NONCARROW : This
4 public hearing considers a request for a
5 waiver from Local Law 13 of 2024
6 entitled a Local Law to impose an
7 interim or temporary suspension on
8 review, approval , and/or issuance of all
9 permits for or relating to new
10 development of resorts , hotels , motels
11 in the town of Southold for premises
12 known as 9025 Main Road Mattituck, New
13 York . Legal notices for this hearing
14 are published no less than ten days
15 prior to the public hearing in an
16 eligible legal town newspaper . The Town
17 Clerk ' s Office has received the
18 Affidavit of Service from the newspaper
19 indicating that the notice was properly
20 published . The application requires
21 service of notice to the adjoining
22 landowners and a posting of the notice
23 at the parcels frontages . The Town
24 Clerk ' s Office has received the
25 certified mailed affidavits return
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 33
1 receipt signatures , cards , and the
2 posting affidavit, which has been made
3 part of the file . The Town Clerk file
4 also includes an affidavit of posting of
5 the public notice on the Town Clerk ' s
6 Bulletin Board at Town Hall . Finally,
7 the Town has received written comment
8 from the Planning Board dated May 6,
9 2025 .
10 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : And
11 those notice documents are in order, Mr .
12 Supervisor .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
14 you . All right . Have we read the
15 proper notices ? Is there anyone here
16 who would like to comment on the waiver
17 of the hotel moratorium?
18 CHRISTOPHER KENT : Good evening,
19 Supervisor Krupski and members of the
20 Town Board . My name ' s Christopher Kent,
21 I ' m here with John Armentano from Farrel
22 Fritz . We are lawyers . Our address is
23 100 Motor Parkway, Hauppauge , New York .
24 We ' re also joined by Kei and Cody, who
25 is from RNM Engineering . He ' s the
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 34
1 traffic engineers for the proposed hotel
2 redevelopment project . We ' re here
3 tonight to present, but also -- not only
4 to present, but to answer questions and
5 to engage in any type of dialogue with
6 anybody who ' s interested in discussing
7 it with us . We hope to answer your
8 questions and address any concerns you
9 may have . We represent 9025 Main Road,
10 LLC, which is Alan Cardinale , is the
11 owner of the now abandoned Capital One
12 Bank office building, which was the
13 former North Fork Bank Corporate
14 Headquarters , and it ' s located at 1925
15 Main Road in Mattituck . That ' s a hotel
16 development is the applicant for the
17 adaptive reuse and redevelopment of an
18 existing improved commercial site,
19 including the long standing vacant
20 substantial office building that sits on
21 an 11 . 83 acre unutilized property that
22 has for many years , cast a negative
23 image at the gateway to the Town of
24 Southold and the Hamlet of Mattituck .
25 Allowing this property to stand vacant
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 35
1 and unutilized rather than occupied and
2 operational as a hotel , is a lost
3 revenue source to the Town . And an
4 underutilized job creator for the
5 community and a neglected financial
6 catalyst for the surrounding businesses
7 in that area . We ask you to consider a
8 property with an existing vacant
9 structure, and plans for a specially
10 permitted proposed adaptive reuse within
11 the existing footprint of the existing
12 building, on a developed parcel that has
13 sufficient asphalt parking for the
14 proposed repurposing of the interior
15 space, with minimal negative impacts
16 upon the environment and significant
17 benefits for the surrounding community .
18 That type of project should be entitled
19 to an exemption or waiver from the hotel
20 moratorium . The proposed redeveloped
21 building will be lead certified with
22 sustainability components , rooftop
23 solar, and a state-of-the-art nitrogen
24 reducing onsite wastewater treatment
25 system. That could be designed to serve
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 36
1 some of the surrounding commercial uses
2 in that area . On behalf of the owner
3 and the applicant, we submitted a
4 petition to the Town Board with detailed
5 property information and historical
6 background on the prior commercial
7 development and use of 9025 Main Road,
8 and the applications and efforts made by
9 the owner since August 2014 to market
10 and occupy the existing building that
11 was vacated in 2011 . After several
12 years of failing to find tenants
13 interested in utilizing the 77 , 000
14 square foot office space, in February
15 2018 , the owner made an application to
16 repurpose the property as a hotel . The
17 petition further details the current
18 hotel project that is revised from the
19 original proposal based upon years of
20 constructive comments and conversations
21 with Town Planning, which led to the
22 reduction of the number of rooms as
23 permitted by the Town Code . To be
24 located within the footprint of the
25 existing building, we respectfully
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 37
1 request that the petition together with
2 all exhibits that have been submitted
3 that was filed with the Town Clerk on
4 February 20 , 2025 be made part of the
5 record of this hearing . At this time , I
6 will turn over the microphone and
7 presentation to my partner, John
8 Armentano, but I will listen and be
9 available to answer any questions and
10 provide any additional information
11 regarding the proposed redevelopment of
12 the former North Fork Bank corporate
13 headquarters . Thank you .
14 JOHN ARMENTANO : Good evening, Mr .
15 Supervisor, Members of the Board . My
16 name is John Armentano . I ' m an attorney
17 with Farrell Fritz . And we ' re here to
18 present more of the technical aspects of
19 this application . We submitted
20 previously the petition to seek an
21 exemption from the moratorium. And
22 tonight, we also handed up another
23 packet, which is basically some site
24 photographs for you to be familiar with
25 the property . And we ' ll go through them
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 38
1 in some detail . And it ' s important for
2 you, and the public to know that we are
3 just asking for an exemption from the
4 moratorium . This is not an approval
5 that we ' re asking for . This is not a
6 site plan approval . This is not the
7 Special Exemption . We would still be
8 required to go through the process with
9 the Planning Board . The simple aspect
10 of this request is to be released from
11 the moratorium, which was adopted
12 roughly a year ago, and it ' s set to
13 expire in June of 2025 . We ' re aware
14 that another one year extension is being
15 added to the moratorium concept . So we
16 are seeking to not be held up for two
17 years , where there has been six years of
18 detailed review of the process . Again,
19 this is a unique application . We
20 understand the benefits and purposes of
21 a moratorium and the reasons that it was
22 requested as a result of your
23 Comprehensive Plan, and your code
24 amendments . But this property is not a
25 new piece of land being developed, it is
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 39
1 a defunct building that has not been
2 utilized for several years , decades
3 even . And as part of our application,
4 we have been working with the Town
5 Planning Department for a reduction in
6 the unit count . We are preserving about
7 four and a half acres of wetlands on the
8 property . And again, the original
9 moratorium was put in place and as the
10 legislation discussed, there was to be
11 code amendments adopted in March of this
12 year . Obviously that has not happened .
13 The code amendments are now out, I
14 believe , for public review . Our review
15 of the website, your website indicates
16 that there ' s not going to be a final
17 determination until June . That is an
18 excessive period of -- actually, the
19 Winter, I think, is what I read . So
20 it ' ll be a lengthy period of time for
21 review . So we ' re not asking for
22 anything but to be released from the
23 moratorium that we believe we were
24 captured in, as it was a broader net to
25 capture hotel development in the Town,
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 40
1 which we understand the importance of
2 that . But this is a reuse of property,
3 which, from a planning perspective , has
4 much better planning objectives . You ' re
5 taking something that has not been used,
6 putting it back on the tax rolls . The
7 exemption is not to just give us the
8 approvals , it ' s to go through the normal
9 process . And again, as you know, the
10 code amendments that may be adopted, we
11 may still be subject to as we progress
12 through the process . We still need to
13 go through the process with the Planning
14 Department, and even with the adoption
15 of the next, we will continue to suffer
16 what was a considerable economic harm
17 for the property . And that is the real
18 basis for our request for the exemption .
19 And as part of this process , as you ' re
20 aware, there has been thousands of
21 dollars spent in legal fees , surveys . A
22 lot of work has been done . This reuse
23 of property does makes sense . The
24 location is in what ' s going to be your
25 new corridor business . It is in a
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 41
1 corridor . It is on a main thoroughfare .
2 This is the type of project that can
3 handle -- it ' s on the roadway that can
4 handle the 81 room or perhaps less units
5 on the property . And again, this has
6 been addressed for six years previously .
7 It has involved in its adaptive reuse of
8 the property . But the criteria that
9 you ' re to apply tonight or as part of
10 your review of this is under your
11 moratorium exemption, it rests in Town
12 Law Section 267 (b) Subsection 2 ,
13 Subsection b, which has a use variance
14 concept to it, although we ' re not asking
15 for a use permit per se . But again, the
16 first and critical component is that the
17 applicant cannot realize a reasonable
18 return as has been substantially
19 demonstrated by competent financial
20 evidence . And we have produced that for
21 you at its Exhibit 6 to our petition .
22 But I think reality speaks to that as
23 well . This property has never been
24 reutilized since 2011 . That is proof
25 that it cannot be reutilized . There is
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 42
1 significant economic harm . We ' ve
2 provided the financial details in our
3 report . But the reality here, as we can
4 all test to, is this property is just
5 not utilized . And if you look at, as
6 I ' m sure you ' re familiar with the
7 property, Exhibit 1 of the additional
8 document that was submitted does show
9 the existing conditions . It is
10 basically an abandoned structure . We
11 have locations as Exhibit 2 and 3
12 showing you the configuration . Again,
13 the configuration of the building and
14 the parking lot will not change . It
15 will be augmented and improved . And
16 again, there will be preservation of
17 four and a half acres of wetlands that
18 will be dedicated for open space . And
19 Exhibit 3 is what the proposed hotel
20 will be . Again, to be clear, we ' re not
21 changing the footprint . We are
22 improving the property ' s look . It is a
23 gateway building in the town . And just
24 for your reference, we have included the
25 proposed hotel site plan that has been
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 43
1 submitted for several years with your
2 Planning Department . And again, the
3 idea that this can be utilized for other
4 purposes , as you ' re aware , there is a
5 covenant on the property that was
6 imposed by the property owner to not
7 utilize it for retail . So we ' re
8 extremely constrained in what we can do
9 with the property . It cannot be used
10 for office ' cause this does not have the
11 capacity . There ' s not the workforce or
12 the need for an office building of this
13 size , but there is definitely a way to
14 reutilize it . So in terms of its use ,
15 the use that is being considered that is
16 permitted by the current zoning allows
17 for hotels by special permit . Proposed
18 code amendments under the new zoning
19 code also allow for hotels by special
20 permit . So we ' re progressing in the
21 direction that the Town and its
22 Comprehensive Plan is seeking . We ' re
23 just being asked to be released from the
24 moratorium because of the financial
25 impacts that have occurred to the
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 44
1 property owner . Again the Assessment
2 Report that is Exhibit 5 speaks to that
3 detailed loss in revenue . The second
4 factor is the alleged hardship relating
5 to the property is unique , and I would
6 submit that this property is extremely
7 unique in its needs . Again, if you
8 consider what a Use Variance is , there
9 can be no other use but a change from
10 the use . That is the criteria that
11 we ' re under . This does qualify, in my
12 opinion, to be a unique characterized
13 property . And again, as I stated before
14 nothing is going to change with respect
15 to the property . We ' re actually
16 improving its use . We ' re improving its
17 sanitary capacities and we ' re dedicating
18 land to the open space . The third
19 factor is that if the relief is granted
20 it will not alter the essential
21 character of the neighborhood . I think
22 that we can agree the character of the
23 neighborhood in this situation needs to
24 be improved . We would only be making an
25 improvement . And as you can see from
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 45
1 the renderings , there will be an
2 improvement to the property . It has sat
3 in disrepair for a number of years . And
4 this adaptive reuse of the building will
5 not change the character of the
6 neighborhood to a negative . We submit
7 that this will improve the character of
8 the neighborhood for its redevelopment .
9 And the fourth factor is the
10 self-created hardship . Again, if you
11 consider this was not self-created .
12 This was town-created, the fact that the
13 moratorium was placed upon us is not --
14 we did not create the hardship . We are
15 seeking relief from the hardship . It ' s
16 a little clunky application because
17 you ' re taking a Use Variance application
18 applying it to a moratorium, but we
19 believe we meet those factors . We also
20 have our traffic expert if you ' d like to
21 hear from them. But again, the use
22 here -- the request is to be released to
23 proceed . And I don ' t want to be a drum
24 too many times , but the concept is to
25 allow us to proceed . We were in process
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 46
1 for years , and I think we were captured
2 in the moratorium. Rightly or wrongly,
3 we would like to seek the relief from
4 this Board to allow us to proceed . That
5 doesn ' t mean we get to build right away .
6 We are going to be considered as part of
7 your code changes . And as the Board is
8 aware, if we ' re in process and the code
9 changes are adopted, we are subjected to
10 them . So we ' re not being released to do
11 anything that is not in keeping with the
12 Town Comprehensive Plan . We ' re not
13 being released from any code changes
14 that may take place . And I believe if
15 your timelines are accurate, we will be
16 in process , but still subject to the
17 code amendments . But we ' d like to start
18 again, and that ' s the request . We ' re
19 not a new build concept . Thank you .
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
21 you . Can I ask you a question?
22 JOHN ARMENTANO : Yes .
23 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : In your
24 opinion, and we ' re gonna do our
25 homework, of course . For whatever
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 47
1 reason, we grant your request tonight
2 for a waiver of the moratorium and for
3 relief, what is your or the applicant ' s
4 next steps through the Town and through
5 all the regulatory partners ?
6 JOHN ARMENTANO : Yes , the next
7 process would be , we would proceed to
8 the Planning Board and the Planning
9 Department for further review for site
10 plan and special permit . That would
11 include the SEQRA determination, which
12 we have not received yet . We are in the
13 early stages of a long project . But the
14 next step would be to go through the
15 process with the Planning Department and
16 the Planning Board for the site plan
17 applications .
18 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : And
19 then in light of -- and I ' ve read
20 through most of what was submitted
21 before with a request, in light of the
22 economic reality, and you just heard
23 about it with the ADU discussion, that
24 cost of materials and construction are
25 where they have never been before .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 48
1 They ' re very high . And of course, cost
2 of operation for a facility like this
3 would be something else . Would the
4 applicant build this if all the
5 approvals were in place?
6 JOHN ARMENTANO : Of course . That
7 is the intention . We are -- we ' re going
8 -- the Cardinale Family does intend
9 after a long period of time to refurbish
10 this property . Yes , very much so .
11 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
12 you . Does this Board have any
13 questions ?
14 (No Response) .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Sure .
16 CHRISTOPHER KENT : Tourism is a
17 significant economic component for the
18 Town of Southold . The current lack of
19 hotel rooms is what ' s led to the rapid
20 growth of short-term neighborhood
21 parcels and rentals such as Airbnb and
22 VRBO to proliferate . The adaptive reuse
23 of this property as a hotel addresses
24 some of the Town ' s concerns in the
25 existing market, demand for hotel rooms
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 49
1 and for places to stay that is necessary
2 to continue the vibrancy of tourism in
3 the town . So this addresses that
4 concern . It will also add a significant
5 revenue source, a real property tax
6 revenue source, which another proof of
7 the loss is the reduction in the
8 assessed value of this property over
9 time . It ' s three times reduced . So
10 it ' s a big issue . Not only for us to
11 move forward but not delay this any
12 further, and allow us to move forward so
13 that we can provide hotel rooms and a
14 revenue source for the town and jobs .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I did
16 see that in what you submitted before
17 and I want to talk to the Assessors
18 about that reduction in assessment .
19 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Just the
20 point of tax revenue, we ' ve seen other
21 similar applicants apply for IDA tax
22 relief after the application was moved
23 through . Would the applicant be willing
24 to formally forego that at this stage in
25 the process ?
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 50
1 CHRISTOPHER KENT : We would have to
2 apply -- you don ' t have an IDA out here .
3 We ' d have to apply to Suffolk County IDA
4 and they don ' t grant IDA benefits for
5 hotels .
6 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I don ' t
7 believe you ' re correct .
8 CHRISTOPHER KENT : No, it ' s true .
9 IDA benefits , if you want to build a
10 hotel -- I have personal experience from
11 this .
12 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Okay .
13 CHRISTOPHER KENT : We did one along
14 Williams Floyd Parkway . I was
15 representing AVR . We did the Meadows of
16 Yaphank . The IDA would not grant an IDA
17 benefit just for the hotel . We had to
18 combine it with other uses . We ' re not
19 proposing any other commercial uses that
20 would be combined with this hotel that
21 would allow us to do a campus
22 application for an IDA approval . And I
23 think --
24 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : Mr .
25 Kent, may I just ask you to take this a
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 51
1 little bit further? I interpreted that
2 comment as would the applicant consent
3 to a condition that an IDA tax abatement
4 would not be requested .
5 CHRISTOPHER KENT : Since we will
6 need a Special Exception, I believe from
7 the ZBA, that ' s how it ' s permitted now
8 by Special Exception of the hotel use in
9 the zoning district . There could be all
10 sorts of limitations and exceptions and
11 conditions on approval . That ' s the
12 beauty of a Special Permit, is to
13 condition it . So I could talk to them.
14 We haven ' t -- they have never brought up
15 to me that they ' re going to be doing an
16 IDA application, and I don ' t think
17 they ' re planning to do one . And I don ' t
18 know if you ' ll be -- like I said, I
19 don ' t know if the Suffolk County IDA
20 would consider a -- allowing for real
21 property tax abatements for our hotel
22 use .
23 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE :
24 Whether that ' s true or not, I just, I
25 think that this was an issue the Board
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 52
1 is attempting to resolve, and it ' s
2 whether or not the applicant state
3 affirmatively that there will be no IDA
4 tax abatement would be requested or
5 accept the condition imposed upon it?
6 CHRISTOPHER KENT : They would they
7 would accept that condition, if it ' s
8 imposed .
9 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Just to
10 the point of whether this applicant
11 would be subject to the new code or the
12 old code, you know, the new code isn ' t
13 adopted yet . And as you enter into this
14 process , you know, there ' s a question of
15 where the starting line is and what the
16 rules that will be applied will be . You
17 know, will the applicant, you know,
18 consent to the application of the new
19 code , which at least in my reading is a
20 bit more restrictive, not only in the
21 total room count, but also in the number
22 of accessory uses .
23 JOHN ARMENTANO : Yes , we would be
24 amenable to that . The only complicating
25 question is the code is not adopted yet .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 53
1 I mean, I think just to be quite
2 transparent, as the code progresses and
3 as it is adopted, we become subject to
4 it as we go . There ' s the only way a
5 "grandfather" or "vest" would be to be
6 fully approved, building permits in
7 hand, and substantially constructed .
8 That is something I think we will not be
9 before your code amendment changes . So
10 we will become captured in your code
11 amendments before we would vest . So I
12 can ' t unfortunately agree to futuristic
13 codes , but I ' m saying I think you will
14 get that objective will be reached by
15 the Town adopting its codes
16 appropriately .
17 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : And the
18 only reason I bring it up is because you
19 mentioned you would be potentially
20 subject to the new code and just kind of
21 want to put that on the table as a
22 potential discussion point for future
23 discussions with the Board, and
24 potentially the applicant, if we decide
25 to consider this .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 54
1 JOHN ARMENTANO : I appreciate that .
2 We ' re not looking, nor can we be .
3 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : We don ' t
4 know what we ' re looking at either in
5 terms of the new code . We had our first
6 public forum last night .
7 JOHN ARMENTANO : Yes , and I did read
8 some of the code amendments . There are
9 some , what you like to say, reductions
10 in density, they ' ll sound like they ' ll
11 make it through . So we will be subject
12 to that as well .
13 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Okay .
14 Thank you .
15 JOHN ARMENTANO : Thank you .
16 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : I just had
17 a comment about, you mentioned the
18 phrase in your testimony about in
19 keeping with the character of the
20 community . Can you just define what you
21 mean by that? And how do you know our
22 community or you have community roots ?
23 You know, what do you know about
24 Southold or Mattituck . And I grew up in
25 Mattituck, so it ' s a precious place to
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 55
1 me . And as somebody who is a decider on
2 how the future of Southold develops
3 particularly I ' m sensitive to things
4 being developed in Mattituck and as
5 somebody who was a former worker at that
6 operation center for North Fork Bank,
7 that ' s in my living memory . So I know
8 in some cases I have to be on guard when
9 people ask us things like this , but I
10 want to have an open mind . So can you
11 just define what you mean by those
12 phrases ? And then I might have a
13 follow-up that might go in the other
14 direction, if you ' ll entertain it, but
15 can you just define what keeping with
16 the character of the community means ?
17 JOHN ARMENTANO : Sure . It ' s
18 character of the community is generally
19 a term that the zoning codes use to mean
20 that the area will not change
21 remarkably . The character of this
22 community, for this particular location,
23 I am not from Southold, but I ' ve been
24 out here and I ' ve worked out here . So I
25 can appreciate it very much so . So when
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 56
1 you discuss character of the community,
2 it ' s really the 500 foot radius of the
3 subject property you ' re talking about .
4 That is a, it ' s a mixed area, but it ' s
5 mostly a commercial corridor . I think
6 that ' s why your code reads that way .
7 That character of, you know, there ' s a
8 CVS down the block . This was a bank as
9 you well know . So that character --
10 well , there wasn ' t a hotel , but a
11 business type of use with a large scale
12 building, which will now change in its
13 use . But the building itself, aside
14 from being improved aesthetically, will
15 not change . So when I speak of the term
16 character of the community, I don ' t want
17 to mean that it ' s the fabric of the
18 community . But it is that the character
19 of the corridor of 25 will not change
20 and will be, in our opinions , not
21 detrimental . Right now, I would say the
22 character of the community for the last
23 16 years has been an abandoned building .
24 That ' s , in my opinion, not a good
25 character of the community . What we ' re
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 57
1 looking to do is to revitalize that . So
2 the question is , it will not have a
3 detrimental impact on the character of
4 the community . I stand by my statement
5 that it will improve the character of
6 the community .
7 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Thank you .
8 So, if you ' ll forgive me, I just to take
9 the -- putting your request aside, if I
10 ask you -- your arrivals fortuitous in
11 terms of the community discussion about
12 ADU ' s and about Affordable Housing, have
13 you given any thought to what our
14 community need is as opposed to what
15 your proposal is ? So for instance ,
16 could you refurbish that great economic
17 center of yesteryear into Affordable
18 Housing units ? So that ' s one option .
19 And you mentioned commerce . Could that
20 be a biomedical facility that could
21 generate high paying jobs to help people
22 buy houses to achieve the American
23 dream? So just have you given any
24 thought to a Plan B or Plan C to, again,
25 forgive me , setting your request aside .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 58
1 I just am curious if you ' ve thought out
2 other things that could go there besides
3 what you ' re requesting us to do?
4 JOHN ARMENTANO : We did have experts
5 look at the trend of development and the
6 concepts you ' re talking about . The
7 biomedical did not seem to be something
8 that was showing up on there -- and it ' s
9 in their report . They do talk about the
10 trends that they would see especially in
11 light of the fact of the distance that
12 this location is . So in terms of that
13 option, it doesn ' t seem to be a viable
14 one . We believe and have studied this
15 location and our experts believe that
16 this has a very strong potential for the
17 hotel use, which will throw off jobs and
18 generate revenue . The concept of
19 Affordable Housing is not something that
20 we had considered, that our option
21 really is to go with the process that
22 has been studied for several years and
23 is permitted by your zoning code . I ' m
24 not sure residential housing is
25 permitted in this look .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 59
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you . All right . Would anyone else like
3 to address the proposal , please ? Jen,
4 yes .
5 JEN HARTNAGLE : Hi . Good evening,
6 Supervisor and members of the Town
7 Board . My name is Jen Hartnagle, and
8 I ' m speaking on behalf of the group for
9 the East End . We would like to express
10 our opposition to the petition exemption
11 for this proposal . Our opposition is
12 not related solely to the merits of the
13 project, but it stems from the fact that
14 you are currently and diligently
15 updating the zoning code . And allowing
16 this exemption for such a large scale
17 project would be counterproductive in
18 this stage and the zoning code update
19 process . The Town has dedicated
20 significant professional resources and
21 time , public resources , so that the new
22 zoning code could accurately reflect the
23 Comprehensive Plan . And that you have
24 paid sufficient attention to a number of
25 community concerns that the public has
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 60
1 raised throughout the Comprehensive
2 Planning process . And one of those
3 concerns being the high demand for
4 resort hotel and motel uses , which there
5 is a high demand, but these uses will
6 have some level of impact on the
7 infrastructure, the traffic, the quality
8 of life , water resources , environmental
9 quality that hasn ' t been fleshed out yet
10 with the Zoning Code . So for these
11 reasons we ask that you deny the
12 exemption at this time . I submitted
13 lengthy comments to the record today and
14 I hope you had a chance to read those .
15 And I would just like to state for the
16 reference the Planning Board memo that
17 was submitted that you mentioned
18 earlier, they too are in opposition to
19 this assumption . Thank you for the
20 opportunity to comment tonight .
21 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
22 you . Anyone else like to comment?
23 UNKNOWN SPEAKER : Can I speak to
24 the issue of traffic? She raised it as
25 an impact?
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 61
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well ,
2 no, let everyone speak because I have
3 one more question for the applicant --
4 so we ' ll .
5 CATHERINE HARPER : Catherine
6 Harper, Mattituck . I think the Board
7 knows my feelings about abandoned and
8 vacant structures . However, this
9 building ' s vacancy is really much
10 preferred to the prospect of what I feel
11 is going to be a real detriment to my
12 community . And so I urge you to also
13 deny the waiver . Thank you .
14 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
15 you . Yes . Sir?
16 ROBERT HARPER : I apologize to my
17 wife . I said I wasn ' t going to speak
18 tonight . Sorry dear . I ' ll cook dinner
19 tomorrow . I ' m Robert Harper . I also
20 live out of Mattituck . This building
21 has been abandoned for, I think you
22 said, 16 years . It amazes me that the
23 Cardinale ' s hadn ' t thought of this
24 proposal 16 years ago . I also heard a
25 comment that this building could not be
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 62
1 used as offices , yet it was built as
2 offices . The owners built this . And
3 when someone builds a property like
4 that, they take the good and the bad .
5 And to have built this 77 , 000 square
6 foot behemoth in Mattituck, we ' re not
7 responsible for that . They are . The
8 Cardinale ' s have not exactly done much
9 for the community . The character of our
10 community, which these gentlemen don ' t
11 seem to understand very well . We ' ve had
12 proposals before from people who aren ' t
13 from the Town of Southold or aren ' t from
14 the North Fork . And they tell us what
15 they think is good for us . This is
16 going to add traffic . If you ' d like to
17 come out here some day and try to make a
18 left-hand turn onto the main road during
19 the busy season, there ' s going to be
20 people who are going to be using this
21 facility, and that will create traffic .
22 There ' s going to be --
23 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Excuse me,
24 Mr . Harper, I ' m sorry to interrupt . Can
25 you make your comments to the Board?
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 63
1 That ' s the proper to the Board .
2 ROBERT HARPER : Well , I am
3 addressing you too .
4 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : You were
5 facing them. So we were just --
6 ROBERT HARPER : I ' ll try to face
7 you .
8 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Yeah, sorry .
9 We just want to make sure you ' re making
10 the comments to the Board and not them.
11 Sorry .
12 ROBERT HARPER : The buildings that
13 the Cardinale ' s have built, I think,
14 personally, as someone who ' s very
15 interested in architecture, are out of
16 character with our community . We ' ve got
17 Jamesport Common, which is a strip mall .
18 We ' ve got the Mattituck Plaza, which I
19 think is a blight on the community, but
20 it ' s there . I don ' t think this is
21 helping anybody . What I did like was
22 Councilman Mealy ' s suggestion that if
23 the Cardinale ' s want to give back to our
24 community, perhaps this could be used as
25 low income housing or workforce housing
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 64
1 for the community . I see no real
2 benefit to the community with this
3 proposal . We listened to another
4 proposal , I don ' t know if this is still
5 part of it, quite a while back about
6 this being something that sounded like a
7 water park theme kind the thing . It
8 sounded like Splish Splash . Is that
9 proposal off the table ? Is this just
10 now a hotel ? Or is that still part of
11 the proposal ? There were like 120
12 people at that meeting . I don ' t know .
13 I ' m sure some of you were there . Is
14 that part of the proposal or is that
15 taken off the table now? And I ' m
16 addressing the Board .
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well , I
18 think Mr . Kent ' s going to address some
19 of these questions when we get done .
20 ROBERT HARPER : Well , you have the
21 proposal in front of you . Does it
22 include a water park?
23 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I don ' t
24 believe it does . I believe it ' s 81
25 rooms and a meeting space .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 65
1 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : If I
2 may, Mr . Harper, there ' s no proposal
3 before the Board now . The issue is only
4 whether or not the applicant is putting
5 enough forward to support their waiver
6 from the current moratorium. So the
7 decision of the Board has nothing to do
8 with whether any proposal will be
9 granted or denied by the Town . It only
10 has to do with whether or not they ' re
11 entitled to a relief from the waiver .
12 ROBERT HARPER : Then I will address
13 that . I see this as no different from
14 any other hotel proposal . I think the
15 impact on the community would be the
16 same as any hotel proposal . And I see
17 no reason why they should be exempt from
18 the moratorium, which, wisely, this Town
19 Board put into effect because it
20 protects our community character . So I
21 vehemently oppose them having a waiver
22 to this moratorium. Thank you .
23 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
24 you . Anyone else?
25 CHRIS SCHOSKIN : My name is Chris
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 66
1 Schoskin . I ' m a resident of Mattituck .
2 I ' m also the president of the Mattituck
3 Laurel Civic Association, but I ' m not
4 speaking on my own behalf today . I
5 agree with the other esteemed members of
6 our community, who do not believe that
7 the moratorium should be -- they should
8 be granted a waiver . The Town, we ' ve
9 waited over a decade for the
10 Comprehensive Plan to be enacted . Then
11 there was a hiatus , and now we ' re in the
12 throes of enacting new zoning . Not
13 really just amendments , but a whole
14 revamping of the Zoning Code . And I
15 really feel strongly that we should wait
16 for the full outcome of the new Zoning
17 Code to be enacted and put into place .
18 And just to point out, so for instance,
19 the Mattituck Plaza, which Mr . Harper
20 says is a blight . I agree there ' s not a
21 single tree on the property . It ' s just
22 blacktop . Where at least the Capital
23 One building does have some trees in the
24 lot, but the Mattituck Plaza is
25 horrible . And it ' s certainly nothing to
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 67
1 do with the community character .
2 McDonald ' s , not that I ' m a resident of
3 McDonald ' s , but they have a beautiful
4 landscape property, and it is -- if you
5 want to say that is one of the nicest
6 McDonald ' s on Long Island . It does --
7 the building does fit in with the
8 community character . So I also ask the
9 Board to deny their request . Thank you .
10 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
11 you . Anyone else?
12 SOPHIA SCHOSKIN : Good evening,
13 everybody . My name is Sophia Schoskin .
14 I ' m the wife of Mr . Schoskin . I live
15 here for over 27 years . When I came in
16 this country, my address was Mattituck .
17 People in the immigration asked me where
18 is Mattituck . They didn ' t know the east
19 of Long Island and Mattituck . Today,
20 when I refer to Mattituck, people say,
21 "Oh, Macari Winery . Yeah, I ' ve been
22 there . " So things over the 27 years
23 have changed . From the good and the
24 bad . What I want to say is they talking
25 about employment . Make job in the
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 68
1 community . Do they know how it is to
2 find -- let ' s say basic person, a
3 cleaning lady or an aide in your house?
4 It ' s impossible . My mother-in-law
5 passed away . We needed an aide . When
6 we came in Mattituck for her last day,
7 and it ' s impossible . I have three
8 children . I was on my own, taking care
9 of my mother-in-law and three children .
10 Just the basic . So saying that that ' s
11 going to fluctuate appointment, I don ' t
12 see it . Where are those people going to
13 come ? And where are they going to live
14 and stay for those appointments ? That
15 don ' t make sense . You know, they have
16 the businesses there . They extend the
17 store . Why they don ' t extend the store
18 to that building? Make a beautiful
19 three, whatever -- how many floor is
20 there for furniture , for patio, for
21 design and all of this . There ' s enough
22 space for that . It ' d be beautiful and
23 they ' d be giving to the community to
24 have somebody working design and all
25 that . That ' s my opinion .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 69
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you . I don ' t see anyone on the Zoom who
3 has a hand up . Anyone else here like to
4 address the Board --
5 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : -- address
6 some of the questions .
7 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Yes ,
8 please, Chris .
9 CHRISTOPHER KENT : I thank you for
10 the opportunity to respond . I don ' t
11 know to what extent I should answer all
12 the questions , but I -- first place I
13 lived when I graduated from college was
14 on Sound Avenue in Mattituck . I was
15 working for the Suffolk County
16 Legislature in Riverhead, and that ' s
17 where I lived . Then I lived in Baiting
18 Hollow from 1985 until now . So I don ' t
19 know if I ' m a North Forker, but I ' ve
20 been here for a while and I ' ve done a
21 lot of work out here and in Shelter
22 Island and in Greenport . So I don ' t
23 consider myself a local person, but I
24 have worked out here and experienced
25 life on the North Fork . The property, I
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 70
1 wanna explain a little bit about the
2 property . Mr . Cardinale acquired the
3 property in 2014 . The office building
4 was built in the early 1980 ' s by North
5 Fork Bank when they converted a
6 supermarket to a bank building . They
7 expanded it a couple of times to get to
8 the 77 , 000 square foot building . North
9 Fork Bank was then acquired by Capital
10 One and Capital One operated this as a
11 back office building, where they
12 received phone calls . It was kind of a
13 call center for Capital One . Became too
14 large of an office building for them to
15 continue to operate there . They closed
16 down their operations . Moved them to
17 Melville and Virginia . They then tried
18 to sell the building . They offered it
19 for rent, for sale . They couldn ' t find
20 any buyers . The property was then
21 auctioned off in 2014 , and that ' s when
22 Mr . Cardinale bought it, as-is . And
23 he ' s never had anybody occupy it . He
24 made efforts to occupy it for about four
25 years . He tried to rent it out as
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 71
1 office space, but it was just too large .
2 It didn ' t fit . The way it was developed
3 and built did not fit the demand -- the
4 market demand at that time . And
5 according to market studies that we had
6 done will never be reoccupied as a
7 office building because it ' s just too
8 large and located too far away from
9 other office buildings . As far as
10 traffic, the hotel use is probably the
11 least traffic generating use that ' s
12 permitted in the Zoning District . If
13 you go to retail , retail will produce a
14 lot more traffic . And we ' re getting
15 complaints about Cardinale ' s retail
16 plazas . He ' s not proposing a retail
17 plaza . He ' s proposing a hotel . And
18 he ' s not proposing to take any trees
19 down . He ' s proposing to keep the site
20 as it is now . It ' s already got 300 --
21 over 375 parking spaces . He ' s not gonna
22 add anymore asphalt or parking . He ' s
23 gonna take an existing building and
24 existing property and refurbish it,
25 redevelop it, repurpose it . This is
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 72
1 something that would be an improvement .
2 Not a detriment, but an improvement . If
3 you look at gardens -- the other uses
4 that are permitted, garden center,
5 retail . Some of the other uses
6 permitted in that district . They
7 generate a lot more traffic than a
8 hotel . Hotels generate about 200 of the
9 traffic of retail . And other large
10 traffic generators that might be
11 developed that are permitted in the
12 Zoning Code . So I hope I answered all
13 the questions , but as far as a job
14 generator, yes , we ' re hoping that some
15 of the young people in the community,
16 some of the people are looking for work,
17 will come work at the hotel . And I
18 think it will produce a good number of
19 jobs for people to work . So is there
20 any other questions that I didn ' t
21 answer?
22 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I don ' t
23 think so . I would -- I would like to
24 unless the Board has any other
25 questions , I would like to ask that we
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 73
1 recess this for two weeks in order to
2 fully review what was presented and
3 consider all the comments .
4 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Yep .
5 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : And
6 then do we want to ask them to come back
7 in two weeks if we ' re recessing the
8 hearing, just in case any other
9 questions come up?
10 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well , I
11 think also, I think if we recess it, I
12 think we ' ll continue to take comment as
13 people go home and sleep on it tonight
14 here after hearing what they ' ve heard .
15 And then, we can have that dialogue
16 during the two weeks also . I think if
17 you ' re -- you ' d be willing to entertain
18 -- if we had questions , e-mail --
19 CHRISTOPHER KENT : I ' d be glad to
20 answer any questions anyone has . One
21 last issue that was raised, somebody
22 said they preferred the building to
23 remain vacant rather than repurposed .
24 That is not going to happen . Somebody
25 owns it . Somebody has a lot of money
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 74
1 invested in this property . Where --
2 what we ' re proposing is a use that would
3 fit into this property, and have less
4 impact than retail . And probably be
5 more attractive than any of the existing
6 plazas that might be owned by the same
7 owner .
8 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
9 you . All right, yes -- I ' m just double
10 checking .
11 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So I ' ll
12 make a motion we leave the public
13 hearing open for two weeks .
14 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Second .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
16 favor?
17 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Aye .
18 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
19 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
20 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
21 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
22 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
23 PUBLIC COMMENTS
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : That
25 ends the Regular Agenda . Is there
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 75
1 anyone like to address the board on any
2 item?
3 ROBERT DUNN : Robert Dunn, Peconic .
4 Brian, I have a question for you because
5 you used it .
6 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Yes ?
7 ROBERT DUNN : What is a simulation?
8 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Say it
9 again?
10 ROBERT DUNN : Simulation .
11 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : How did I
12 use it?
13 ROBERT DUNN : In Greg Simmons '
14 scenario -- Simulation scenario
15 instructor .
16 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : I think
17 it ' s just -- I think it ' s simulation or
18 situational . It ' s a combination of two
19 different words that they use for
20 training . So simulation or situation,
21 and it ' s focused around police training .
22 ROBERT DUNN : Simulation is in
23 there .
24 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Yes ,
25 you ' re right . That ' s really what the
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 76
1 program is .
2 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : We keep a
3 list of Councilman Mealy words , and it ' s
4 now on the list .
5 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I believe
6 just in terms of the interviews , they
7 were talking about it being simulated
8 ammunition .
9 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Yes . It ' s
10 two words combined .
11 ROBERT DUNN : About Goldsmiths ,
12 this past -- since the last meeting,
13 somebody put up the strings for the
14 piping clover . As a rule , group for the
15 East End used to do it . I understand
16 now somebody new do it . They got a
17 little too greedy . They took on the
18 West Beach at -- at, well , the westerly
19 beach at Goldsmiths . They took a little
20 too much with the string . And I just
21 really should talk to him for the
22 future . Goldsmiths is the only formal
23 dog beach in Southold .
24 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : And the dogs
25 must be on the leash .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 77
1 ROBERT DUNN : That ' s not true .
2 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Your dog
3 must be on the leash at all times .
4 ROBERT DUNN : When there ' s people
5 there . If they ' re running on the beach,
6 they can run on the beach .
7 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Dog must be
8 leashed at all times on public property .
9 ROBERT DUNN : When the lifeguards
10 are there . On the beaches where there ' s
11 lifeguards . Where there ' s no lifeguards
12 --
13 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : No . When
14 there ' s -- when there ' s a lifeguard, no
15 dogs are allowed . But dogs always have
16 to be on a leash .
17 ROBERT DUNN : Always 1000 on a
18 leash?
19 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Yes .
20 ROBERT DUNN : Okay, well , that
21 doesn ' t happen .
22 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Enforcing
23 that as a whole another story .
24 ROBERT DUNN : That doesn ' t happen .
25 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : I know that .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 78
1 ROBERT DUNN : So regardless of that
2 --
3 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : That ' s why I
4 took the chance to repeat that .
5 ROBERT DUNN : By putting this
6 string all the way down at the rack
7 line , they are forcing people to walk at
8 the rack line . Some of the dogs won ' t
9 do it, because they don ' t -- you just
10 don ' t do it . But the thing is , the
11 piping clovers live way back up . And
12 they ' ve only done this , again, on the
13 east beach . They didn ' t do it on the
14 main beach . Where they do it on the
15 main beach is proper . It ' s always been
16 the same . When they find a nest, they
17 come and put a cage over it, so the
18 animals can ' t get to it anyway . But
19 they ' ve just hogged too much of that
20 beach . And I ' m just saying this for the
21 future I don ' t expect anybody to go back
22 and change it . Because the thing is the
23 piping clover don ' t live near the rack
24 line . The piping clover live further
25 up . They eat in the rack line . That ' s
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 79
1 why they want to be somewhere near to
2 it . So to take the whole beach, just
3 gonna have people walk into the screens
4 -- strings and tearing them down .
5 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Yeah, they
6 have a -- you know -- they look to see
7 where they might be nesting, but you ' re
8 already done that way -- never been down
9 to the rack line --
10 ROBERT DUNN : Never been done
11 before . And I ' m speaking about one
12 beach in the entire town . I don ' t know
13 what they did elsewhere . I know what
14 they did here .
15 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : They came
16 before us --
17 ROBERT DUNN : People will not
18 accept it . And they will tear the line
19 down and then somebody will step on a
20 piping clover egg, which I don ' t want to
21 see . I ' m all for the clover . I like
22 watching them . They ' re real cool . But
23 --
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well ,
25 I ' ll call the company tomorrow .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 80
1 ROBERT DUNN : They ' re not going to
2 matter .
3 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : But it
4 does . It ' s a long summer . We ' re just
5 starting .
6 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : They just
7 put them up .
8 ROBERT DUNN : They just put them
9 up . And they just put them up, and they
10 ended up being eggs . They ' ll come and
11 put a cage over it . So the eggs
12 themselves will be safe . But I just
13 think if you ' re gonna -- if you ' re gonna
14 do things that people are gonna -- we
15 gotta do things smart . If we ' re gonna
16 set laws that people are just gonna
17 break or gonna set rules that people
18 gonna break that we can ' t force then --
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Yeah,
20 we don ' t want that . So I ' ll make a call
21 tomorrow and see if we can get that
22 adjusted .
23 ROBERT DUNN : And in fact, 900 of
24 the land they took wasn ' t there last
25 year . It wasn ' t there . It ' s all new
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 81
1 beach .
2 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Right .
3 ROBERT DUNN : So it ' s next year ' s
4 town beach .
5 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Right .
6 ROBERT DUNN : When we go scoop it
7 out and take it down . So that ' s that on
8 that issue .
9 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Okay .
10 ROBERT DUNN : Just because I heard
11 a lot of things from some lawyers and
12 stuff, tonight I had --
13 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : We heard it
14 all day from Paul .
15 ROBERT DUNN : Okay . Well I spent a
16 career in commercial renovation, and I
17 can say one thing with fact, if we have
18 these white elephants and we have two of
19 them now, and something doesn ' t get done
20 with them, it ' s not going to be good . I
21 mean, I worked for commercial slumlords ,
22 literally . That was their business .
23 One of the buildings I had was typical
24 and turned Downtown Brooklyn around . So
25 I can see what happens when you leave
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 82
1 buildings gone . Eventually, I mean, the
2 building they were speaking of has now
3 been empty for 15 years . I don ' t know
4 what you remember, what year it was
5 built . But I can show you the roof of
6 that building, it ' s coming to its life ' s
7 end . And if something ain ' t done, it ' ll
8 deteriorate . When it starts falling
9 apart, then we just have a big pile of
10 trash in our town . We end up with a
11 second one . What happens then if it ' s
12 coincidentally with a big downturn in
13 the business cycle and everybody else is
14 hurting? Do we want Southold Town to
15 end up, or sections of Southold Town to
16 end up looking like crapful ? That
17 requires $ 6 or $ 8 million to dig out of .
18 That nobody stopped . So just thank you .
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : That ' s
20 why I asked them if they would in fact
21 build it .
22 ROBERT DUNN : I ' m sorry?
23 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I did
24 ask them that if they would build it .
25 ROBERT DUNN : Build what?
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 83
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Build
2 their proposed hotel .
3 ROBERT DUNN : Oh .
4 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : And he
5 said, yes .
6 ROBERT DUNN : Oh, I hope -- I mean
7 I just hope somebody does something with
8 these buildings . You know, if they ' re
9 just left alone -- and I mean, a hotel
10 may not be the project . I ' m not
11 advocating that or talking against it .
12 I ' m just saying you can ' t leave these
13 buildings forever without some harsh,
14 negative controlments .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
16 you .
17 ROBERT DUNN : Thank you .
18 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Go
19 ahead, sir .
20 ALEX CAMPOGNA : My name is Alex
21 Campogna . I ' m an architect and I live
22 with my family at 1100 Alvahs Lane in
23 Cutchogue . I ' m here to raise my
24 concerns regarding an ongoing review
25 process of an application that is
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 84
1 currently in front of the Town Planning
2 Board proposed by a vineyard manager
3 business for a new storage structure on
4 22 acres of undeveloped protected
5 farmland at 1300 -- sorry, 1350 Alvahs
6 Lane . Because the current proposal is
7 so similar to an earlier proposal by the
8 same applicant that was denied in 2017 ,
9 I would like to briefly compare the two
10 proposals as reference . The 2017
11 proposal was a 7 , 100 square foot
12 equipment storage building with a 1 , 000
13 square foot loft . The current
14 application is a 7 , 000 square foot
15 storage building . While the current
16 design does not list a loft, there is
17 clearly space allocated for one in the
18 lines . The 2017 structure was 30 feet
19 tall , while the current one is proposed
20 to be 35 feet tall . Their designs and
21 shapes are mostly and almost identical .
22 The new proposal cites the building only
23 slightly differently, angled to the
24 street rather than parallel to it . And
25 it looks -- it still looks like a garage
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 85
1 more than a barn . Unlike the previous
2 application, which was well documented
3 and clear about its intended use, what I
4 find striking about the current one is
5 the lack of information in the drawings
6 that have been presented . The site plan
7 shows no site upgrades associated with
8 the building this size . There is no
9 indication of which direction the
10 building faces , east to west . The
11 elevations have been significantly
12 watered down from the previous
13 applications , and there ' s also a general
14 lack of architectural and structural
15 notations on the drawings . So, when
16 reading the current comments from the
17 Land Preservation Committee regarding
18 this application, I was just made to
19 see, to not see any remarks about the
20 missing information that one would
21 normally expect to see in a proposal
22 this scale that would certainly have
23 considerable impact on the land, and its
24 surroundings . Especially when
25 considering the 1999 easement attached
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 86
1 to this property, which the town crafted
2 to strictly preserve this land in
3 perpetuity . I believe this Board should
4 direct the Land Preservation Committee
5 to do a full re-review of this
6 application, especially in regards to
7 its size, its location, and its intended
8 use .
9 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : Sir,
10 may I ask you, is this a pending
11 application before the Town ' s Planning
12 Board?
13 ALEX CAMPOGNA : It ' s currently in
14 review .
15 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE :
16 Before the Planning Board?
17 ALEX CAMPOGNA : Yes .
18 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : All
19 right . So I will tell you that this
20 Board cannot comment on an application
21 before the Planning Board . You ' re
22 certainly here to make comments and
23 you ' re doing that, but the Board will
24 not respond to them and will not comment
25 regarding an application before another
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 87
1 Board .
2 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Paul , can
3 you just give an educational explanation
4 as to why we don ' t do that? Just for
5 public education .
6 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : So
7 matters before the Zoning Board and
8 matters before the Planning Board are
9 designed to be within the sole
10 jurisdiction of those Boards . So for
11 this , for the Town Board to interfere
12 with the work of those Boards , that
13 would be considered to be inappropriate .
14 The comments you ' re making, I hope that
15 you have made or will make before the
16 Planning Board at the time of the public
17 hearing before the Planning Board . But
18 this board is not authorized to
19 interfere with the work of either of
20 those two Boards . The Board is
21 certainly here to listen to your
22 comments about any matter you want to
23 speak about . But I was just warning you
24 that if you were expecting a response or
25 an action from the Town Board, there
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 88
1 would be none . That ' s all .
2 ALEX CAMPOGNA : So in addition,
3 when reviewing the Planning Board ' s
4 initial comments , I was even more
5 surprised to see that this application
6 was designated as a SEQRA Type 2 action .
7 I do not understand that conclusion, or
8 how that conclusion was reached, given
9 the Board ' s recent and well-documented
10 history with an almost identical
11 building by the same applicant . Where
12 off-site farming activities , which are
13 not permitted under Type 2 , were clearly
14 stated as integral to the building ' s
15 business and its intended plans . This
16 just seems weird to me . I would hope
17 that there would be some consideration
18 to reconsider this designation and
19 require a full SEQRA review . In 2017
20 the applicant -- the application ended
21 up going to the Zoning Board for a
22 ruling, was determined that the proposed
23 building ' s use was not permitted under
24 the easement that protects the land . In
25 their ruling one passage stood out to
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 89
1 me . This is a quote . The applicant
2 stated that the equipment stored at the
3 property would only be used for the
4 subject property . The equipment used to
5 manage other vineyards would be stored
6 elsewhere . This correspondence is
7 contrary to the application to the
8 Planning Board, the applicant ' s
9 testimony, and other written
10 correspondence . Although the Board
11 questions the veracity of this statement
12 by the applicant, it is ultimately
13 irrelevant to the Board ' s decision
14 because the question before the Board is
15 whether equipment storage is an
16 allowable use . As an architect, when I
17 look at the current application, I see
18 how incomplete it is . I ' m reminded of
19 what the Zoning Board wrote then . And
20 to paraphrase it, It doesn ' t necessarily
21 matter what an applicant says or in this
22 case what an application doesn ' t say .
23 But the key question is how will the
24 building actually be used? I Believe
25 that this matter should also be referred
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 90
1 to the Zoning Board for them to look at
2 this again . And I guess all this leads
3 to the future , which is -- anecdotally,
4 I guess , I had heard a story about
5 another farmer on Alvahs that had to
6 stop its distribution operations from
7 its protected farmland a few years back
8 because a similar easement forbids these
9 activities . So I ask, why does it
10 appear that the Town is considering
11 permitting a building that is a clear
12 and significant risk of becoming an
13 enforcement issue later? It seems to me
14 that although the applicant may be upset
15 to hear again that his plans are not
16 permitted, and that the land he
17 purchased is not suitable for the
18 business he runs , he would probably be
19 much more angry if we were allowed to
20 build this structure and afterwards told
21 he couldn ' t use it . At the open hearing
22 at the Planning Board, many of the
23 family members of the original Kaloski
24 Farm that this land was a part of,
25 attended the meeting and spoke against
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 91
1 this proposal . I can say that my
2 impression was they really felt a sense
3 of betrayal from the Town, that this
4 application was really even being heard
5 again . They felt this was really
6 settled business . It had been heard
7 denied and yet it ' s back up again . And
8 I feel that you know, the Planning Board
9 as well as , all the Boards should -- it
10 would just be -- it would be a good
11 opportunity to really reaffirm the
12 Town ' s preservation commitments to these
13 lands that make this North Fork so
14 special , and to really uphold the public
15 interest when it comes to, you know, the
16 preservation of these development rights
17 that have been set aside . And I just
18 want to say I ' m relatively new to the
19 North Fork, and it ' s these places that I
20 cherish . Although I haven ' t been around
21 as long to cherish them, I cherish them
22 just as closely, I think . You know, I
23 want you to understand my position is
24 not to try to prevent a farmer from
25 building a barn, to serve its land . If
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 92
1 anything, it ' s to the contrary and
2 architect . But I do believe that this
3 particular application that ' s before the
4 Town is really not -- is not the case
5 here . Thank you for your time .
6 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
7 you .
8 NANCY SAVATSANOVIC : Good evening .
9 Nancy Savatsanovic (phonetic) of
10 Cutchogue . The land he ' s talking about
11 was in my family for a hundred years .
12 They sold the -- my rights in 1999 to
13 the Town and the taxpayers of this Town .
14 I want to know what the town will do
15 when it ' s being violated, the deed that
16 my family has with this Town? He is
17 operating -- Ackerman is actually
18 operating there now as a base of
19 operation for many, many vineyards that
20 he maintains . He has all this equipment
21 there . He has all these people parking
22 there that work for him and he ' s
23 breaking the law of the deed . So who
24 does protect that deed that Southold
25 Town has ?
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 93
1 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : So if
2 these are covenants that were filed with
3 the land 1999 --
4 NANCY SAVATSANOVIC : 1999 --
5 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE :
6 Covenants will be addressed whether it
7 be by the County, if it was County sold
8 or the Town, if it was Town sold . It
9 said -- what I ' m hearing though, is
10 you ' re -- your referencing farming
11 operations , which you know our protected
12 activities . So I ' m not -- I ' m not
13 familiar with the -- with the instance .
14 If you believe that parcel is being used
15 in violation, yes , in violation of
16 applicable covenants , you should file a
17 code complaint or call the Town
18 Attorney ' s Office .
19 NANCY SAVATSANOVIC : Okay .
20 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : And
21 we would be happy to speak with you
22 about the parcel in particular and about
23 potentially what violations are there .
24 And we would certainly investigate them.
25 NANCY SAVATSANOVIC : Oh, thank you .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 94
1 Because , you know, Alvahs Lane already
2 dealt with all those big trucks , and
3 he ' s got almost a bigger operation going
4 out of there . And I just -- I mean, the
5 land was farmed by my grandfather or the
6 team of horses and this guy just made it
7 look like a bomb went off over there .
8 It ' s disgusting what he ' s done there .
9 And I ' d like to know, he ' s taking those
10 cattle, either to Connecticut or
11 Massachusetts , having a butchered and
12 he ' s selling it out of his garage . He ' s
13 not advertising because it ' s an illegal
14 business . And so who do I call about
15 that?
16 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : Why
17 don ' t you start with my office, we ' ll
18 have a nice conversation, and we ' ll
19 investigate it .
20 NANCY SAVATSANOVIC : Okay . Because
21 you know, it ' s very heartbreaking to see
22 what happened to that land . In the deed
23 it says growing crops . Not for working
24 all the vineyards of the North Fork .
25 And you know, we battled this at the ZBA
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 95
1 and it was horrible . We had to keep
2 going . And then when he came into that
3 property, it ' s only 22 acres . My mother
4 was still alive, and she lived on two
5 sides of it . He went on her property
6 without her permission, cut down her
7 trees , put up a deer fence seven feet in
8 her property, and wouldn ' t take it down .
9 We had a lawyer go to him -- for him to
10 sign a deposition . He wouldn ' t even
11 talk to the lawyer . Then he put roundup
12 all around my mother ' s property . So
13 this man is a really evil person that we
14 have to deal with . So if he gets any
15 building there, who ' s gonna monitor
16 what ' s going on in there? He wants to
17 put poison in there , and it ' s just gonna
18 be a real problem to deal with somebody
19 like that that doesn ' t care for the
20 community or the people that live there .
21 Thank you for your time .
22 TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DECHANCE : I
23 look forward to talking with you . Thank
24 you .
25 NANCY SAVATSANOVIC : Thank you .
MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 96
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you . Anyone else like to address the
3 Board?
4 (No Response) .
5 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I don ' t
6 see anyone in the audience or on the
7 Zoom .
8 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Make a
9 motion to adjourn .
10 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Second .
11 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
12 favor?
13 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY : Aye .
14 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
15 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
16 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
17 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
18 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
19
20 (Whereupon, the meeting was
21 adjourned . )
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MAY 13, 2025 REGULAR MEETING 97
1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
2
3 I , Jessica DiLallo, a Notary Public
4 for and within the State of New York, do
5 hereby certify :
6 THAT, the within transcript is a
7 true record of said Board Meeting .
8 I further certify that I am not
9 related either by blood or marriage to
10 any of the parties to this action; and
11 that I am in no way interested in the
12 outcome of this matter .
13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
14 set my hand this day, May 15 , 2025 .
15
16
17 (Je sica Lallo)
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