HomeMy WebLinkAboutHousebarges & Boat Use 1984 LocAL LAW NO. , 1954
A Local Law in relation to the regulation of
housebarges and residential boat use in the Town of SouthoId
BE IT ENACTED by the Town Board of the Town of Southold, as 'follows:
I. A~ticle IV of Chapter 32 [Boats, Docks and Wharves) of the Cede of
the Town of Southold is renumbered Article V and Sections 32-40, 32-41, 32-42
and 32-43 are renumbered 32-50, 32-51, 32.52 and 32-53, respectively.
Ii. Chapter 32 [Boats Docks and Wharves) of the Code of the Town of
Southold is hereby amended by adding a new Article thereto to be Article IV
to read as follows:
ARTICLE IV
HOUSEBARGES AND RESIDENTIAL BOAT USE
Section 32-40. Legislative intent.
The Town Board finds that watercraft are being used for strictly
residential purposes on waterways within the Town of Southold. The
proliferation of this type of use is expected to create significant environmental
problems if their proli, feration remains unchecked.
The Town Board recognizes that the waterways surrounding the Town are
one of the primary recreation areas on Long Island. They are used for
swimming, fishing and boating by many of the local residents and visitors.
Furthermore, waterways are a major commercial resource providing food and
employment for the harvesters of fish and shellfish. It is well known that
shellfish taken commercially from said waterways are distributed to all parts of
the Eastern Seaboard. The Town of Southold has expended large sums to
develop and protect the harvestable clam stock.
The Town Board acknowledges its duty to protect the health, safety and
welfare of its residents and visitors. The maintenance of high water quality is
vital to the use of said waterways for recreational and commercial purposes.
The avoidance of all uses and activities which could introduce polution in these
waterways is of constant concern.
The potential influx' of craft and vessels for residential purposes creates
a substantial hazard to water quality in said waterways. The residential use of
these:vessels is contrary to the established character of the Town of Southold
and will severely diminish the recreational and commercial use of -.said
waterways.
Congregation of residential boats and marinas ~:atering to their use will
likely create problems which .include in addition to water poliutic~n, trash
storage and removal, fire proteCtion, police protection, emergency energy
requirements during power failures, loss of mooring poles during winter
months, drainage and sinking during storms, all being hazards which the local
government must consider and provide for.
The Town Board recognizes that the Town of $outhold consists primarily
of developed year-round residential neighborhoods. Recreational uses are
incidental to the residential uses.
The residents of Southold are entitled to have these water resources
protected from potential pollution, It is in their interest to restrict and/or
prohibit long-term residential use on the waterways of the Town of $outhold,
Section 32-41. De~i~tions.
As used in this article, the following words are intended to include and
'be defined as follows:
HOUSEBARGE - Any vessel or craft used or designed to be used on the
water surface and to provid~ residential accommodations with sleeping and
toilet facilities whose volume coefficient is greater than 2,.~00 cubic feet.
Volume coefficient is the ratio of the habitable space of a vessel measured
in cubic feet to t~ne draft of a vessel measured in feet of depth. Habitable
space is any enclosed area used or designed to be used for a person to
sleep, sit or eat.
MARINA - Upland property, in or adjacent to a town waterway, which is
used as a dock 'or mooring base for more than one vessel or craft not
owned by ~the marina owner.
RESIDENTIAL BOAT USE Occupancy overnight by one or more people
on a vesseI or craft containing sleeping and toilet facilities.
TO~¥N WATERWAYS - All tidal waters bordering on or within the Town of
Southold including, but not limited to, bays, sounds, creeks, estuaries,
inlets, and all tributaries thereof, and extending seaward to a point 100
feet from the mean high water line.
Section 32-42. Prohibition of housebarges.
The storage or Use of housebarges is prohibited.
Section 32-43. Residential boat use.
Residential boat use exceeding four (4) nights in any seven (7}
consecutive night period is prohibited in town waterways.
Section 32-44. Marinas.
A. Mooring or docking of a houseb'arge at a marina is prohibited.
B. Mooring or docking for residential boat use at a marina is prohibited when
it exceeds four [4) nights in any seven [7) consecutive night period.
Section 32-45. Severability.
If any clause, sentence, paragraph, section or part of this Article shall
be adjudged by any Court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid, such
judgment shall not affect, impair or invalidate the remainder of this Article,
but shall be confined in its operation to the clause, sentence, paragFaph,
section or part thereof directly' involved in the litigation in which such
judgment shaII have been rendered.
Section 32-6. E~ffective date.
This Local Law shall be effective upon its filing with the Secretary of
State.
PUBLIC HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD
JULY 17, 1984
3:45 P.M.
IN THE MATTER OF A PROPOSED LOCAL LAW ENTITLED,, "A. LOCAL LAW IN
RELATION TO THE REGULATION OF HOUSEBARGES AND RESIDENTIAL BOAT
USES IN THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD."
Present:
Supervisor Francis J. Murphy
Councilman Joseph L. Townsend, Jr.
Justice Raymond W. Edwards
Councilman Paul Stoutenburgh
Councilman James A. Schondebare
Councilwoman Joan W. Cochran
Town Cle.rk Juc~ith T. Terry
Town Attorney Robert W. Tasker
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: This is a public hearing on a Local Law in relation to
housebarges, which will be read by Councilwoman Coch.ran.
COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: ".Public Notice is'hereby given that there has been
presented to the Town Board of the Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York,
on the 3rd day of July, 1984, a Local Law entitled, "A Local ~aw in relation to the
regulation of housebargos and residential boat uses ~n the Town of Southold,"
Copies of said Local Law are available in the Office of the Town Clerk to any
interested persons dur'ing business hours. Notice is 'further given that the Town
Board of the Town of' Southold will'hold a public hearing on the aforesaid'Local
Law at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, New York, on the 17th day
of'July, .1984, at 3:45 P,M., at which time all interested persons will'be heard.
Dated: July 3, 1984, Judith T. Terry, Southold Town Clerk."
I have here a public 'notice as it appeared in The Long Island Traveler-
Watchman, and the Suffolk Times. Also proof of publication from Judith Terry,
Town Clerk that. it was posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board. I have a
copy of the law as proposed.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY; That's the official' reading. At this time I!d like to take
comments from the people in the audience. Is there to speak in favor of this
proposed Local Law?
DR. JERMANSKI: Mr. Supervisor, was this published as a public'notice in the
G reenport Gazzetto ?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY; No. The Suffolk Times and -Ihe Long Island Traveler.
TOWN CLERK TERRY; It was published in The Suffolk Times and The Long Island
Travele~ '-Watchman.
Page 2 - ~Public Hearin~,~
Proposed Local Law - Housebarges
DR. JERMANSKI: Not in the Greenport Gazzette.
TOWN CLERK TERRY: I don't know the Greenport Gazzette.
COUNCILMAN STOUTENBURGH: The legal papers.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY; Is there anyone would like to speak in favor of this
proposed Local Law? (No response.) Is there anyone would tike to speak in
opposition to this proposed Local Law?
DR. STANLEY FRANKEL: Before I question the law', I guess I'd just like to get
some input as to the basis of the need for the law. -The law--seems'to address some
of the environmental problems associated with houseboats, or.living on a boat. Could
someone cite me the basis upon which you decided that the environment was adversely
affected by this?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I think we're here, really, to take comments from the' people
on the Local Law.
DR. FRANKEL: Could you tell me, is there, any studies that you're basing this 'on?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: We've had requests for this Local Law,
DR. FRANKEL: Just requests, but no study involved?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Right.
DR. FRANKEL: I'd like to present I guess the 208 Study, which I guess five million
dollars was spent on, and there was no significant'impact from. boats, on shell~shing,
or any of the other problems that you seem to delve into. I' mean, those are facts,
If you want some statist~ics, Manhasset Bay, which has many boaters, one hundred
percent of the coliform pollution was caused from sewer run-off, Most of the problems
with pollution deal with or caused by problems that you can control as a body acting
on--as a governmental body that would improve sewage facilities, preventing domestic
animals from causing run-off, There is no factual or scientif3~: information that could
justify your' stating that houseboats or living on boats is detrimental to the environment.
Next question is, I don't know how many housebargers there, are presently. Again it's
a question to you.' Could you tell me how many houseboats there are in Southold?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I don't have that figure, no.
DR, FRANKEL: How many were there five years ago?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY; I have no idea,
DR. FRANKEL: is there any projection?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I have no idea.
DR. FRANKEL: In the law it says that you anticipate a great increase and if you
don't have the figures now, how can you 'say what there will be? Okay, boat owners
pay dockage. I don't see any parallel with the apartment renters-, They don't pay
taxes. Why are only hous'eboaters being requested that they're, not paying their
fair share of the school taxes, etcetera. And there are many residents in 5outhold
who don't have chi[dren~ yet they're supporting school taxes. You also state that
Page 3- Public Hearln~..~/' .~.,'
Proposed local Law- Housebarges
the government is concerned with the trash storage and removal, fire protection,
police protection. Well, I think now trash storage and removal is not a problem
that government would necessarily have' to concern- its'el;f with, it's the marina owner
that would be concerned with. And loss of mooring polls, since 'when does the
government pay for that? And also sinking of boats. It:just seems to be 'quite
far beyond 'what's necessary. Okay~ with definition of marina, ~it would seem that
you might include some sort of payment in there because.someone vitising somebody
else, according to this definition, would be a marina--it's a non-owner is using ~che
facility. Basically also that the pollution problems that.you, addressed:is satisfied
by existing law. It's a matter of simply enforcing Coast Guard 'regulations. There's
no point in passing another law if the present law is'unsatisfactory, Ir'would also
seem that this 'law would affect visiting yachts and commer, cial.craft-. If a commercial
fishing boat had to 'stay in. Cot more than four days because of~ a 'sLorm~. ar they
going to be 'subject to penalties? Or a charter boat that"has it~ crew live aboard, are
they going to be subject .to this? I~m.also wondering if.any 'of the shellfishing boats
have heads, and are they inspected? Harvesting boats, are they usin~]..t~eir heads
while ~hey're in the process? I think the simplest solution is to ban all boats and
then you Won't J-iave any of these problems, or else not pass this 'law, Thank you.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY; Thank you, Doctor. Dave?
MR. DAVID I, DeFRIEST, Southold: I came here just to be on record that I'm
Opposed to this law. I'm not going to make any public 'statement. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Sir?
DR. JERMANSKi, Gull Pond, Greenport: From what I gather from what I'm hearing,
the Board may not be aware of the very strict federal laws governing the getl!ing rid
of waste from boats and we are on. very very strict laws concerning that. lI is dorJe
in many ways during the Coast Guard inspection. The Coast Guard has a right to
board you at any given time, any given day of the week as long as they wish to do
so, and you're also inspected each year as far as the manner in which you get rid
of waste. There was a time when there, were waste disposal areas for us, but they
exist no longer because of.~the proof that Dr, Frankel made mention of, that there
was no pollution as found by the boats because of the tidal rise, because of the vast
oceanic surface that we have unless you are in a land-bound lake, that,s a different
story, But we present r~o such probl'em. And to .say that. you can't live on a boat
because of waste disposall when you live under extremely strict precautions, I think
this is taking the matter much too much. I've been coming out here since 1953. I
now spend five months out here and I live on my boat and if you gentlemen ever
wish to inspect a boat under the laws of the .Coast Guard, you are most welcome to
do so.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, sir. Anyone else like to speak in opposition?
In the back.
MARK OSMER, Southold: I have a sailboat and as was presented before, I don't
really see where there's a need for something until you have some evidence to pro~'e
that there is being damage done. I think really to pass a law like this I think you
would need to see that there was a problem to start off with and I don't think there's
a problem, And like it's .been said, if there is a problem with marine waste it's .being
covered by the Coast Guard and it has been for a couple of years.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Mark, Anyone else? In the middle here, anyone?
Sir.
4- Public Hearin~-~"
Page
Proposed Local. Law- Housebarges
ALEX BONDARCHUK, Southold: On this, is this housebarges or any type of a boat?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Any type of boat.
COUNCILMAN STOUTEN]BURGH: Two classifications. We're talking about this ~aw to
cover housebarges and boats.
ALEX BONDARCHUK: Not houseboats.
COUNCILMAN STOUTENBURGH: Houseboats. Bob, Would you define the two for
TOWN ATTORNEY TASKER: There are two classifications. One's called a housebarge,
which is defined in this proposed Local Law as .follows: . Any vessel or craft used or
designed td be used on the water'$u~face to provide residential accomodations with
sleeping and toilet facilities whose volume coefficient is greater than twenty~five.
hundred cubic 'feet. Volume coefficient is the ratio of the,habitable space' of a vessel
measured in cubic feet to the draft of the vessel measured in feet of depth.. Habitable
space is 'any enclosed area used or designed to be used ',for a person to sleep, sit or
eat. That's the definition of a housebarge. There's one other' definition which ~is the
residential boat use. And that's defined as occupancy overnight by'one or more people
on a vessel or craft containing sleeping and toilet 'faci.li. tieS. 'Those are. the two types of
boats or vessels that this ordinance or Local Law.purpo~-[s 'to regulate. As far as the
housebarge, it seems to be excluded and prohibited throughout.the .Town, completely.
And then the residential boat you can't .sleep on it for more than four' consecutive
nights, either in the Town waters or in a marina,
MR. BONDARCHUK: How will you then propose to enforce this law?
TOWN ATTORNEY TASKER: I have no idea. I~m.jus't the draftsman.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: It's not a question and answer, please, it's for your comments.
This is a public hearing on a proposed law. This is not a law that---.
MR. BONDARCHUK: I don't thinl~ there's a need for 'such a Iaw.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: We're interested in your' comments, That's .what we are
here for today, to receive the comments of the people on a proposed law. It's
just proposed.
MR. BONDARCHUK: We don't have that problem here.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Okay, Anyone else in the middle? Over here in the green
shirt.
MR. ARTHUR NISSEN: I own a piece of property on Fordham Canal in G~eenport
and I have, I guess, what you would call a residential boat there. It's not my
primary residence, but we do spend a Iot'of vacation time on the boat. Now, you're
talking about pollution. I assume you're.talking about discharge from a beat's head.
We all pollute. We generally pollute inadvertently. We don't pollute deliberately.
Every one of you pollutes every time you turn on your oil burner, or your gas burners
in the winter time you pollute the atmosphere, ~/ou'i-e polluting the water with sulphur
drop-out. We don't pollute deliberately, we all break the law, but we're caught in a
bind. That's .the only way' we can heat our homes, As far. as boats are concerned,
this,'can of worms on the pollution has been thrown around for a long long time. New
York State jumped in, I'd say, about ten-twelve years ago and passed a law saying
Page 5 - ,Public Hearin~r-~'
Proposed Local. Law- Housebarges
that there was to be no discharge whatsoever into the waters of New York State,
and that still holds true in lakes upstate, you're not allowed to discharge anything.
So most people, most boaters, like everybody else who try to obey the law, went
into what we call holding tanks and New York State guaranteed us that there were
going to pump-out stations and every marina, every state.' facility, which they never
put in, so people were left with heads, marine toilets, which were full and no way
of emptying them. Well, people had to pump. them out'themselves and people had
to--as a lot of people do now--people who have that particular type of pollution
control have cans, five gallon drums, and we have pumps 'on the boats where we
pump the effluent out and I have a toilet~'..which, is on my:property, which was
okayed by your Planning Board and the Suffolk County Department e.f'Hea"lth~ and
if I use the boat~, w'hich"l try not to do, the head on' the boat, we us'~our shore
facilities, as do most people in'marinas, we 'pump it 'out:,when it 'has to be punlped
out and we empty it in the toilet on the shore. The Coa~t.GuaYd :regu'lation,..which
superseded New York State..law, and I~m not sure the time period--! . think it,s .fOur
or five years now--says holding tanks are okay., but .they also'have what. they call
secondary' treatment devices which are the equivalent, of ~-he..devices that ci:ties put
in. And ~here's a whole inspection procedure and theyt're~q~it~expensi've topUt
in, and every boat that's sold in the country is requi~'ed 'to have that. 'Do people
dump pump-out effluent? People b~eak the law. ~P~0pl~b~.-~ak~hei,law. People go
through red lights and they break the law. Most people are.'..laWabid.!ng,and don't
break ~the law, What's happening is that yourre taking some~h~rig--a ~itOation ~hat
doesn't really exist in ~the -terms'of pollution. I don~_t ~vhat'the ?eason--!'d0n't know
who suggested the law, but you're, practicing selectiv.e: discrimii~tion 'for: something
that dbesn't even occur. ' Gee wiz~ the rain we had yesterday~'~ Was sittir~g on the
boat and [ was watching the creek--Pordham Creek--that!s.:jus{~ beauti{U]. What are
you going to do. The run-off from my property, [ su~e,~-in~r~ased the coliform
counting maybe three hundred pe.rcent. What are you going to do, d~per~:6very
deer and every rabbit. There's..certain things you harp to :.expect, 'We don~t poi'lute
on boats. It'~ against the law. We don't p01[ute. We al.l have' treatm~nt~devices.
Now, if'the law is beipg promulgated in terms of a tax~. base, t~at peo[~le.~ come in
and they!~e using the'local facilities--I'm.a taxpayer in'.the Town of Suffolk and
you"re d~nying me the recreational facility thatll love. ,! ~think boatino-~f you're
not a boater you don't .understand. what I"m talking about. A' ~]ot of you people
may play golf. To me I don't understand people playing golf, .butyl d0n~t knock
it. ] can't .see playing golf. I enjoy paddle tennis, 'l .enjoy sc~uash and so tin, but
if you're not a boater and you're, not interested in boating,-you.don~understand
why; people would want to 'live' on a boat. So, I don~t go.into.~hat, but a lol~of
people do enjoy it tremendously. Traveling on a boat is"differ~nt.' I:f:you travel--
we put thousands of miles on our boat. I'm not a wealthy men, 'l~m a .school teacher,
yet my family has been traveling on boats,-different bo'a~s, all boats. .The boat I
ha~e now, is close to forty years old--for twenty some odd ~-yea~'s. Travel all around.
We've be~n. up through Canada, we've' been down here thi~ough coastal .waterw~ay and
traveling ion a boat is completely different than traveling wi'th ~. car. you travel.
maybe fifty miles a day. You people look at me as. that"s not traveling~ but' il?s a
different ~YPe of traveling. You~ see a different kind of America. "Wh~.n you're
denying me something that. I love' I think that's selective.discriminatio~. I don~t
understanid why you're doing, it. I'm paying taxes there~'.l'm not po/luting. [f~
you feel that boating people who are at marinas aren't carrying t'heir shat, e, well
there's .a simple' matter, .simple way to handle that, tax .the marinas for it.' They
sure.¢h~rg~ the, peopIe.i,n there-an awful '1o~ ol~ money. .l~m serious. People pay
a fortune in the mar[nas. Let ~he marinas contribute more. Let. the marinas .certify
that every .boat that comes in has an approved pollution, control, device. ~-et the
police come around and check them, but why penalize people and:say that" I can't
Page 6 -
Public Hearin~'~'
proposed Local Law - Housebarges
come out--what you!re going to make me do is I'm going to have to come out for
four days. If I have two weeks off or a week off, I'm going to 'have to come out
to my boat and I~ll sleep on my 'boat three nights and,lql sleep in my car for a
night; or I'll sleep on a friend's boat. 'That'll satisfy the'law, but for what avail
is the law?' I really don't understand what-=if:you' have' something against boats
per se and you think people who have boats are getting away wi~h something, then
I can understand the law, but otherwise I ~-eally don't understand why you'd want
to push this law through. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else over here on the-=r;ight like to
comment? Mr. Price?
IRVING L. PRICE, JR., Greenport: I'm the tenant by the entirety in:tho owner- .
ship of 230 'Fourth Street, Greenport, New York.' I also own a. Coast Guard' documented
boat, equipped with Coast Guard approved sanitary system and provides sleeping, for
four persons. Most of the other objectants, have mentioned 'the' items that I would
wish to call your attention to. I would like to call your attention specifically to the
definition of "Town waterways," specifically as to the part where yOu described it
as extending seaward to a point a hundred feet from the mean high water lineo You
get into certain boundaries of the Village of Greenport and the Town of Southold and
you'll find that a hundred feet from the high water mark of Southold w. ill be in the
Village of Greenport and you've usu~-ped their jurisdiction and some boats'probably
moored on that line are half in the Village of Greenport and half in the Town' of Southold.
I think that's a fatal defect. As far as alt of the economical reasons that have been
given, I can only agree with the last speaker and:. myself.personally', .th.e week of July
2nd to July 8th I spent six'days in New Harbor, .]~lock 'Island and paid eno'hundred
and eighty-one dollars and sixty cents for dockage. A hundred and eighty dollars
for dinners, forty-two dollars for lunches, thirty dollars for incidentals, sixty dollars
for souvenirs, for a total of four hundred and ninety-three dollars: and'sixty cents.
That's one boat. Multiply that by five hundred, six hundred,-whateve)- that.come
in'every week, That's what you're going to deprive the local ,people o~,as far as
their 'economic good is 'concerned in the short summer seasen.' The fuel, I happen
to have a diesel engine--I .bought that in the Town of Southold. so they were
benefited by that. I believe there is a constitutional dbjection to this law. I believe
that picking on four days out of seven is arbitrary and capricious. I don't believe
that whether you're on there four days, three days, five days., six days,' makes
any difference and when you pick on four days you made J~ .arbitFary and capricious,
and you've denied me the equal protections of the. law gua'ranteed to me under the
United States Constitution and New York S~ate Constitbtion; I've always tried to
lead a law abiding life. I've been arrested a couple times, for speeding, but over
the period of years I've always managed to stay out or,jail,, bat--and I never thought
I'd be in the position where I Would advocate civil disobedience, but I' can tell you
if'you persist in passing this law, I'm going to be on mY boat, 'right down in 'Sterling
Harbor Marina the night that it goes into effect, i'm.going to sleep there five nights
and you can come down the next day with whoever you,'-]'e going to have enforce it
and arrest me and then we'll, see where you' get it 'on an appeal.. On line with what
the last gentleman said, Justice Brandice once said that,of' all of the rights, the most
appreciated right is to be left alone and that's all us law abi~ling citiZenS who happen
to own property, pay taxes in the Town of Southold; support the economy, own boats
that comply with the present laws ask, just let us alone. Thank you~ '
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you,' sir.
Page 7- Public Hearin~'~
Proposed Local Law- Housebarges
MARC IGLESIAS: There isn't really, much I can say. I am associated with this
marina that this gentleman just said .that we're going to put the baracad~s up. I
quite agree with him and I think that one of the things that' nobody's touched on
here was the fact that the school problem seemed to be One of the main things that
the thrust was at. As far as ~axes is concerned, I.cen tell you that like any business
man, one or,our biggests items of overhead are the taxes that: we pay to Southold
and to ~G:reenpor~, because we have got a divided line there,~-and that item goes in
to the direct amount of dockages that we charge, which is~-exb~bit~nt.~. ~ If we get
the taxes, cut we!d be happy to reduce the price, but.it'is'one of'the three biggest
items that we have~ the taxes that we pay. The maintenance ~l don~t hav-e to tell
you is tremendous with anything that is attacked by 'the' el'ements. There was a
study made in Rhode Island, the University of "Rhode ~$]and,'abot~t marinas, and
they found that the eco-systems--thi~ was two years ago--the eco-systems of marinas
were by far healthier than any other[ area that was. not b~lkheaded and .did not have
the boats'churning the water and' me,zing around. Now.; that'put~to rest a big study
that they were doing. T~here was an|article i'n ~Fhe Suffolk Tim~s ~that .said that the
Board had researched and formulatedI this big document here ~that ~must have taken a
lot of legal time to put together. I t[hink I represent one of the larger marinas here
and I think t_hat we probably are responsible for qUite a few m'Hlions of dollars of
business spread around in the commuhity.. Nobody ever called~me up:. nobody called
up any of the colleagues that I know land I would like to s~y l~hat:we ~naVe~ a.hundred
and eighty permanent~.boats--net tran[sients, and. out of that..hun~:h-ed'and eighty boats
I don't ever rem'ember having a houseboat. I would also like'to say.that.'this item
about schools, on October 15th we zip the marina up, we winterize'.our water systems,
we close our ~anitary facilities, everything is 'put to bed. 'Also the'.beats, people
that do sail, sail the boats, but theylusually do'just for the day and that's it. So
Jt would seem to me that saying that people are going.to be. using ~ houseboats to go
to school, is not quite true, because II imagine that if'a survey had- been done I would
say that maybe in" this entire area yo[u may have ten houseboats,-'if that many.
don'.t know if'any of you people havelever been on a boat in'the winter but I can
tell you it's a pretty unpleasant cold place to be and if .anybody, can stibk it out I
think that they should give some kind of award. The boat is cold, damp, it's wet
and no water, no san[taryl facilities, ~nd even if used 'the bag. and threw it overboard
it's going to land on ice, so that I doh't understand what tl~is'whole 'furor .is about
and I agree with the previous speake~ls. I think if there, was a problem or there
could be a.problem. I just don't see ~ny problem .because'as a.ma.r[na owner I can.
tell you 'the last thing we want is people that are going, to b.e Ihring On a boat
constantly. I mean they stay there; they create problems of. aH sorts so that I
think that with the future looking very dim for futuFe s!ips,. I don't think that
we're going to have any creation of new marinas with additional space for more
boats, so that the spaces that are the!-e 'right now I. can .tell. you from my personal
experience are well booked, right now~ through for'the next. two years and I might
say there isn't a single housebaFge orI houseboat or anything els'e where people
live on it consistantly, in' the entire, place and I would be very very happy to give
you the ben, fit 'of whatever experience we have, as well as, .I think, any of the
other people who have marinas, which |l think should have b~en consulted and a
little survey would have probably saved .all' these people bei.og here and the Board
having to sit through something like this and going through one e.f these big
documents. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, s!r.' Over here on the right, anyone else?
JACK TABOR; .I'm a yacht broker in Greenport. I'd just like to say that I
oppose the law. I agree with what everybody else has said and I'would like to
know why we haven't heard from anybody that's in favor of the law if it's such
a great law~ Why hasn't anybody come forward to defend it? ~hank .you.
Page 8 -
Public Hearin~~'
proposed Local Law- Housebarges
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Jack. Further going back on the right. Bill?
BILL YETTER: I'm a yacht broker at Matt-A-~iar Marina. I'm here today on behalf
of the Association of Marine Industries and we would like 'to ask that if a new regula-
tion or code regarding boats, docks and whal~x)es is necessary, then the Association
of Marine Industries be allowed to be in on the proposing of these regulations as. was
done in Southampton Town last spring. The Association: got' together with Southampton
Town Board, they put together a code and it was approved and we ask that.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY; Thank you. Going back, ~.Y;es, sir?
DAVID BRUCKHEIMER, JR.: I'm from DPS Research Reports and I have had
considerable experience with marinas in the fa~zt that I .grew up behind Sterling
Harbor Marina--lived there probably twenty years of my life and I can't say 'enough
about how nice it is. It's a clean,tw~llekept,.:professionally.managed facility, and
for the Town Board to pass a law that would do irreparable damage to a legitimate
business' i~ncome is inexcusable. When you state in your law that you are for tourism
and the usa~ of the waterways and .the facilities for recreational.use, but yet you
inhibit a business who not only meets all of the pollution requirements and operates
v¢ithin'all the aspects of. the law, but when you damage this person--when you damage
any'other marina that .is legitimate I think that's Unconscionable,and I'm quite upset.
I was furious when I read this and I definitely think that'.it sbould.'not be voted into
la, w and if this is a mirror law of the Town of Oyster Bay 'l . think that is incorrect.
If we are going to have-a law regulating marinas,i let's .wri(e one 'ourselves. Thank
you.
SUPERVISOR IVlURPHY: Thank you, Dave. In the back?
JIM PRESTON: I'm.a boat owner in' the Town of Southold, also Vice-Commodore of
the Eastern Sailing Club and I find that most of the boats in the Eastern Sailing
Club would be covered under the law that you're considering, while a housebarge
of an equal coefficient, your formula, would not be'considered under the new law.
The point is that you!re segregating out small boats unnecessarily with the language
in your law. The second point is that I think you're condemning the value and the
utility enjoyment of our personal property unnecessarily. As a member of the voting
community I think that I would like to be aware of any' plans that are necessary to
either abolish or determine a need for the law or to get rid of it.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Anyone else in the back on the right? Jim?
JIM RICH, Southold: I've always enjoyed boating and everything and I read this
and I thought, the only to do would be ,to com~ to, the hearing because I know '~hat
you people on the Town Board are reasonable people and if it is pointed out to you
that this is 'unfair and would make criminals o[~t of a bunch o~ us because we all
that harm's-boats sleep on them for four Or five :days at a time here or there, We
have friends that come for long weekends and this year the ~th of July was on a
Wednesday and people came on a Wednesday and stayed certainly more than four
days and I feel confident that after you ye had this hearing and listened to us that
you' :~i I certa nly give th s a great dea of thought and not act on this law as it is
written now. Thank you. ~,
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone ~,lse here on the right? Sir?
ED VIANAR; Brewer Yacht Yard: I'd like to go on record as saying I'm opposed
to the law. I don't think it's right for the boaters in the area.
Page 8 -
Public Hearin~:
Proposed l~ocal Law - Housebarges
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else? Sir.
DON TUTHILL, Southold; I'd just like to--I'm mainly in favor of what's been
said opposed to the law, but I'd like to go one step :further for'future thought.
It's a fact Ghat I_ love to boat in other waters too. I like to take a.vacation and
I would hate to think that we would have a law that would also restrict other
boaters who wanted to come. here and spend a week or two in our lovely waters.
Thank you.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, sir.' Over here on the right, anyone else? Sir.
ARTHUR HILTON: I live on a boat, We're presently docked at Mattituck. I spent
a good part of my life as a resident of this end of the Island. When I retired' and
moved ou~ on a boat and we travel from here to Florida and back every year. While
we're up here, we're up .here three and a' half months and we stay at basically one
marina in this area. Sometimes we're away for two or three weeks at a time. If
away from' from slip, my slip can be rented to someone else 'who is certainly going to
be there, it's going to be full all the time that I~m not. there. I don't see what this
four nights a week or four nights out of seven has anything to do with anything like
this because they'll be somebody else in the same slip do'rog ~he same thing that I've
been doing when I have been there, and I think you'.Il find that this is t~ue of ali
the marinas. They cannot afford not to rent slips that. they know .are going.
rerent them to the people that, are going to be away, and :let 'them know, for three
or' four 'days and. there is such a shortage of marina slips out here that this is
probably true in any decent marina and as I say, we. travel every year from here
to Florida and back, spend seven months or so in Florida and the rest up here.
We have not found this a fact in' any other state all the way :up and down, or any
other county in any other state, all the way up and down betw;een here' and Florida,
and I think itts ridiculous and there isn't one item Or. reasoncthat's .mentioned in this
far this law that has any basis of .fact. The fact that wherever' we.tie'up in a marina,
the marina is'paying the taxes. If you rent somebod¥'s:house ?you are not paying
taxes but those taxes are being paid and. we as slip renters are paying just as much
taxes a5 you as~ a;.home ]'enter pay. We do not pollute. .We have maserator clorinator
sewage treatment plants which probably give less pollution :th,an, your city sewage
plants so, particularly when we have a. rain storm and these damn things overflow
and completely pollute it. Where .we are in Mattituck if;we ha~e.a.:rai~t;li~ke we had
yesterday the whole Mattituck Creek is absolutely brown with:the runn-bff from the
roads, and they're off of farms where the~s fertilizer, and the dirt aod muck is
~:unning into the creek. A couple of days. later the creek, is clear again. The boats
are not doing it, it's the lack of catch:basins for the fi'own'roads, that are doing more
damage than all the boats, com'bined could possibly d0. I see no reason for this law.
If you're worried about housebarges, you already have laws.to prohibit those or to
screen them out, You have zoning laws. You have to get all; ,kinds of permits to
build a dock, to put mooring pilings up. There are any number of ways to circumvent
your so-called housebarge law, but people who are cruising on boats,, both other people
coming here. and we from here going other places, don~t want ito be bothered with a
lot of horseshit like this. We like to support boating and this is bu~lshit.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you~ Sir?
HOWARD ZEHNER, Young's Marina: I'd like to state that I oppose this law. I agree
with everything that's been said. I'd like to add:three quick comments. One, all
marinas that I'm aware of have twenty-four hour a day heads. Boaters can use these
heads twenty-fou~ hours a day, It was the basis for the Southampton law. Number
two,' many of we marinas own our land; many of us also own the underwater property
Page 9 -
Public Hearin~-~'
proposed Local Law- Housebarges
on which the docks are built and the boats stay, so we're paying taxes for our
underwater property to Southold Town, as well as our upland to Southold Town
and the Southold Town Trustees have no jurisdiction over privately owned bottoms,
that's well understood. Only Town waters, That's point .'number two. Point number
three. I don't feel that the people that I'm looking at now are atiens from some other
area or from outer space or whatever, You people are part, of'our community. When-
ever anyone wants to ask you a question, and I'd .like,to ~sk you a question., you .
state that this 'is not a question and answer session.' But.you're spending .taxpayer
money, you're part of our community, I feel with mi.nimum effort you would, have
found that this is a ridiculous law. Why are we at this 'hearing, You people are
part of our community. Why are we. spending the time and money'for something
like this when I know you've: very. overloaded and have ,many othe~ tasks. Will, you
please tell me why is. this hearing being held? Who instigated this 'hearing? Did'
New York State say we must have a.. hearlng~for this 'purpose? Will. you please
answer that question, please.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: The Town Attorney gave us the Local Law and he was
asked to draw up the law--to write it and the--
MR. ZEHNER: Who asked the Town Attorney to write it?
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: From the Town Trustees, I believe.
MR. ZEHNER: The Town Trustees?
TOWN ATTORNEY TASKER: I received a Fetter, and Imm the Town Attorney, dated
June 19, 1984 from the Trustees. It says, "Transmitted herewith is a copy of the
proposed brdinance for housebarges and residential boat use for the Town of Islip.
Please draft an ordinance for the Trustees to review before June 28th meeting,
pertaining to the same." ! took the Islip ordinance, merely crossed out references
to I'slip and this is what you have. You have the Islip adapted to Southold. I
shipped it back to the Trusees and that's as much as I know about it.
QUESTION: Does any of these Tr. ustees know what the Town of Islip-law ....
TOWN ATTORNEY TASKER: I have no idea. You'll have to address them.
MR. ZEHNER: Will you please give us the names in case all of us don't know the
names of the Trustees of Southold Town. Please list their names so we know who
these people are and who requested this law.
TOWN ATTORNEY TASKER: This came from Henry P. Smith, President of the
Board of Trustees of the Town. There are four other members.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Let's hold this please to comments on--this is a public
hearing--please let's hold it to the comments on the proposed Local Law. Is there
somebody who has not spoken would like to speak?
JOSEPH SULLIVAN: I think you've heard a lot of ve'ry good comments here opposed
to this law and I think you have a good look at what the boating community is and
[ don't think you've probably ever had as many intelligent arguments to a law that
is being proposed as you've had here today.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Yes?
Page 10- Public Hearin~"
proposed Local Law - Housebarges
IRENE DAVIS: ! just wa~t to go along with Mr. Price. After you pick him up,
then you can come to Mill Creek for me, because I oppose this law too. I li~e
on a boat.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else who hasn't made a comment
would like to make an additional comment? (No response.) Anyone like to make any
other comments that we haven't heard of before? Please limit it sir, it's getting very
long.
DR. JERMANSKI: Just one very small comment. I wonder how many people.have
seen the sewage pipe that leads out from Mitchell's into Mitchell's water. ' At Iow
tide that stench is horrendous. That's Town sewage, not the pollution of boats
at Mitchell's=dock.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Any other comments? Would you please hold
it short. Go ahead if 'you have something more to add than what was said. It's
quite obvious what's been said.
DR. FRANKEL: I just want to submit the recommendations, ."Planning for Clean
Waters," by the 208 committee to give you a direction with some statistics that
you can wrap things Up with.
SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else would like to comment?
(No response.) I.f not, I would like to add one more letter :~om the Matt-A-Mar
Marina .in opposition to it as an official part of the lrecord. And at this point I
would lih~e to close this hearing.
Judith T, Terry ~/~/ ~
Southold Town Clerk
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK
STATE OF NEW YORK
.'->ulricie Wood, being duly sworn, says that sh~
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