HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-12/17/2024 PH 1
1 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK
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TOWN BOARD
4 REGULAR MEETING
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Southold, New York
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December 17 , 2024
9 4 : 30 P .M .
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15 B E F 0 R E :
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17 ALBERT KRUPSKI JR, SUPERVISOR
18 LOUISA P . EVANS , JUSTICE
19 JILL DOHERTY, COUNCILWOMAN
20 BRIAN 0 . MEALY, COUNCILMAN
21 GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN
22 ANNE H . SMITH, COUNCILWOMAN
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DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 2
1 INDEX TO TESTIMONY
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3 Chapter 280 3-16
4 Public Comments 17-48
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DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 3
1 CHAPTER 280
2 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So the
3 purpose of tonight ' s public hearing is
4 to consider an amendment to Chapter 280 ,
5 Zoning Article 24 . Site plan approval
6 in relation to the reimbursement of the
7 town of Southold for technical
8 consulting fees incurred in the
9 processing of Planning Board
10 applications . This law seeks to place
11 the cost of retaining technical experts
12 on those who initiate and seek to
13 benefit from such development and
14 projects rather than by general town
15 funds , which are raised by assessments
16 and/or general taxes paid by the
17 taxpayers of the Town . The full tax
18 that the proposed local law is available
19 for review on the Town Clerk ' s Office
20 and on the Town ' s website . In the
21 folder here, I have a copy of our
22 submission to the Suffolk County
23 Planning Commission, and a copy of their
24 letter declaring this in matter of local
25 determination . I have a notice that was
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 4
1 sent to adjacent municipalities . I have
2 a letter from our LWRP Coordinator, Mark
3 Terry, defining this as -- recommending
4 that this is consistent with the Local
5 Waterfront Revitalization and Coastal
6 Consistency Review Process . I have a
7 letter from Assistant Planning Director
8 Mark Terry, declaring this a Type II
9 action under SEQRA, therefore not
10 subject to review . I have a Affidavit
11 of Publication, signed by our Town Clerk
12 Denis Noncarrow, that this was published
13 in the Suffolk Times , along with an
14 invoice and copy of the ad for the legal
15 notice . I have a copy of the legal
16 notice itself . I have a copy of the
17 resolution adopted by this Town Board
18 setting the public hearing . And I have
19 a letter of support from our ZBA Chair
20 Leslie Weisman, that she has requested
21 that I read into the record in its
22 entirety, because she ' s unable to attend
23 the meeting tonight . So I will . " I ' m
24 writing on behalf of the Board of
25 Appeals to support the proposed code and
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 5
1 respectfully request that this letter be
2 read into the record of the hearing in
3 its entirety, since I am unable to
4 attend today in-person . Codifying the
5 proposed local law is a longstanding
6 practice in many municipalities . In our
7 town, the Zoning Board of Appeals
8 successfully implemented this process
9 when our board assumed lead agency on
10 complex applications requiring approvals
11 from both ZBA and the Planning Board .
12 In our experience, having guidance from
13 our own experts , and evaluating the
14 merits of reports submitted by an
15 applicant ' s technical consultants was
16 essential . Most of these reports from
17 traffic studies by engineers to
18 environmental impact analyses by
19 environmental planners are highly
20 specialized and are usually beyond the
21 scope of the board members ' expertise .
22 Moreover, it is unreasonable to assume
23 that an applicant ' s consultants would
24 have the best interest of their clients
25 in mind . To ensure the veracity of
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 6
1 their submissions , the town must have
2 available to us consultants that have
3 the best interests of our town in mind .
4 Zoning Board Members believe it is both
5 fair and appropriate that fees for the
6 Town ' s consultants be paid by applicants
7 whose proposed projects , if approved,
8 are likely to provide them with
9 substantial benefits . Many developers
10 are already familiar with the
11 expectation that they will be required
12 to reimburse the Town for the
13 consultants the Town deems necessary to
14 hire during the review of their
15 applications . The ZBA encourages the
16 Town Board to adopt the proposed draft
17 code as written . Sincerely yours ,
18 Leslie Kanes Weissman, ZBA Chairperson,
19 Department Head . " And this was received
20 December 17th . That ' s what I got .
21 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . :
22 Mr . DeChance, are all the papers and
23 notifications in order?
24 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE :
25 Everything is in order .
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 7
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you . All right . Then we ' ll open the
3 hearing . Would anyone like to comment
4 on this proposed change to Local Law to
5 Chapter 280 rather?
6 MARGARET STEINBUGLER : Margaret
7 Steinbugler, Southold Hamlet . I would
8 like to comment on the proposed law . I
9 wholeheartedly support this law . I
10 think it will put the Town in a much
11 better position to challenge experts
12 hired by applicants , who as the letter
13 pointed out, do not have the Town ' s best
14 interests at heart . I ' ve reviewed some
15 applications , and I have seen many
16 examples of poor engineering practice
17 and outright errors . As a trained
18 engineer myself that it ' s painful to
19 see . But I ' ve seen cherry picking
20 methods to generate the most favorable
21 result . I ' ve seen unsubstantiated
22 assumptions . I ' ve seen an utter lack of
23 sensitivity analysis to see how the
24 result might change if the assumptions
25 are altered slightly . I ' ve seen
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 8
1 outright errors . There ' s a traffic
2 study that noted in a table that there
3 were nine fatal accidents at the
4 intersection of Town Harbor Road and
5 Main Road in 2015 . I don ' t think that ' s
6 the case . There ' s a table that added 0
7 + 2 and arrived at 0 . There ' s a table
8 that added 4 + 1 and arrived at 8 . You
9 don ' t need an engineering degree to see
10 some of these things are just sloppy .
11 There was a nitrogen model used to
12 estimate nitrogen emissions for a
13 project that was coded in Fortran in the
14 1980 ' s . Analytical methods for
15 engineering advance sometimes very
16 rapidly, and to use a 30-year-old model
17 is a long way from state-of-the-art .
18 It ' s not anybody ' s best game . On the
19 mind of a talk Bob DeLuca gave the
20 Southold Peconic Civic Association . He
21 spent years reviewing scores and scores
22 of applications when he worked for
23 Suffolk County . And he made the
24 observation that never in all his years
25 did he ever see an applicant ' s
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 9
1 consultant conclude that a project was a
2 poor project or shouldn ' t go forward .
3 So by enacting this code, the Town will
4 really be much better equipped to
5 conduct much needed critical analysis of
6 the work of experts paid by applicants
7 who stand to gain a lot . Thank you very
8 much .
9 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
10 you . Would anyone else like to speak to
11 the change to 280?
12 (No Response ) .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
14 you . There was a hand raised on the
15 Zoom screen . The attendees ?
16 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : So I make a
17 motion to close the hearing .
18 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : There
19 was a hand -- Ann Murray would you like
20 to address the Board?
21 ANN MURRAY : Yes , I would . I ' d
22 like to echo what Margaret said . I
23 think it ' s a great step . I think that
24 the Town should never have been paying
25 for these, you know, biased reports in
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 10
1 the past . And this will go a long way
2 to making better practices in the Town .
3 I only wish the town had done it sooner .
4 Thank you .
5 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
6 you, Ann . Anyone else?
7 (No Response ) .
8 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : And I
9 guess , you know, just to give the public
10 the opportunity maybe to comment, I ' d
11 actually like to , if the Board would
12 allow, propose an amendment to the code
13 as written . And suggest that just going
14 back and looking at what this version of
15 the code is seeking to replace, it ' s a
16 SEQRA limit of 0 . 50 of the total cost of
17 the project that ' s allowed to be billed
18 back to the applicant . What
19 currently -- the Planning Board
20 currently does this . It ' s those dollar
21 amounts above that 0 . 5% amount . I ' m
22 wondering just so there still is -- and
23 I guess I ' m thinking about this almost
24 as an appeals process . If for these
25 dollar totals above 0 . 5% would actually
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 11
1 come to the Town Board for approval .
2 And wondering if that -- just to have
3 some sort of process that ' s not just one
4 entity that ' s deciding what reports are
5 needed, who ' s responsible for it . Just
6 so there ' s a little bit of oversight --
7 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah, I
8 like that .
9 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : And a
10 little bit of the ability of an
11 applicant to at least question some of
12 these .
13 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Or
14 checks and balances .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Are you
16 suggesting an amendment tonight?
17 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Yeah, I
18 think it would be a simple amendment .
19 In speaking with Paul , the Town
20 Attorney, I think we could make it and
21 still adopt it . And I would just
22 suggest --
23 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : That
24 was my question .
25 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Yeah,
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 12
1 because I think it ' s important we adopt
2 it . There ' s some very big projects
3 before the Town and we don ' t want
4 taxpayers to be burdened with this , but
5 we also -- and it ' s not so much this
6 Planning Department and this Town Board,
7 it ' s future planning departments and
8 future town boards . Just so everything
9 is written out and there is a process .
10 So I guess what I would suggest , if the
11 Board would allow, in section 3 and 1 ,
12 at the end of paragraph 1 , any such
13 determinations of above 0 . 50 of the
14 total value of the project must be
15 approved by the Town Board . And the
16 consultant shall be engaged in
17 accordance with the Town ' s procurement
18 policy .
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
20 right . So there ' s a request for that
21 amendment . Is that a motion to -- we ' d
22 have to -- we have to approve while --
23 we have to close the hearing .
24 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Mr .
25 Supervisor, you should amend the
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 13
1 proposed law before closing the hearing .
2 And if the Board was in favor of the
3 amendment just to -- just have a Board
4 adopted amendment to the to the proposed
5 code as indicated by Councilman Doroski
6 and then close it . And then the
7 ultimate motion would be to approve as
8 amended .
9 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Can I ask
10 a question Paul ? When consultants are
11 engaged in accordance with the town
12 procurement policy, is that something we
13 do on a regular basis with all
14 consultants or in regard to things just
15 in the Planning Department?
16 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : The
17 purpose of adding that section was to
18 ensure that any technical expert that
19 the Town elected to attain was chosen
20 and engaged in accordance with the
21 Town ' s procurement policies . So that we
22 knew that we were getting the best
23 number for the individual and the
24 expert . And therefore that would also
25 then pass to the applicant who ' s
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 14
1 ultimately paying for it . It certainly
2 protects the applicant also because it
3 prevents the Board from hiring anyone --
4 the Town from hiring anyone they want at
5 whatever cost they chose .
6 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Right , so
7 I think that there ' s like a two part .
8 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Yeah,
9 so initially it was one sentence . My
10 suggestion is to amend the sentence to
11 add the requirement for those instances
12 where you ' re over half a percent that
13 the ultimate approval of that
14 recommendation would have to come from
15 Town Board . There could be two separate
16 sentences .
17 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Yeah, I
18 think two separate sentences . To me
19 what Greg has added feels like every
20 other time we would go into an agreement
21 with a consultant or another big . So I
22 think it ' s smart to add that piece .
23 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : So the
24 suggestion amendment would be, and then
25 a sentence before the last one that
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 15
1 said, any such determination above half
2 percent of the total value of the
3 project shall be --
4 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Approved
5 by the Town Board --
6 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : It ' ll
7 have to be approved by the Town Board,
8 period . And any such consultant, that
9 sentence would continue .
10 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Yeah .
11 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Sounds
12 good .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
14 right . So there ' s a -- Greg, then you
15 made a motion to amend this ?
16 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Yes .
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Is
18 there a second?
19 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : I second
20 as amended .
21 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
22 favor?
23 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
24 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
25 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 16
1 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
2 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
3 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
4 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : So do we
5 have to ask the public again?
6 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : We
7 should, since the hearing is still open .
8 Would anyone who ' s spoken or would like
9 to address the Board on this comment on
10 the amended version of this proposal ?
11 (No Response ) .
12 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Seeing
13 none .
14 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : I make a
15 motion we close the hearing .
16 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Second .
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
18 favor?
19 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
20 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
21 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
22 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
23 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
25 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 17
1 PUBLIC COMMENTS
2 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . :
3 All right, and having said that , is
4 there anyone in the audience who ' d like
5 to address the Board on any matter?
6 ROBERT DUNN : Robert Dunn, Peconic .
7 This morning, I listened to the work
8 session . There was -- ( inaudible ) up .
9 And we have ( inaudible ) and I think to
10 make that statement is literally or
11 meaning that is -- really wrong on
12 4x4 ' s which is not to do . You know
13 $ 80 , 000 4x4 ' s out in the field, that ' s
14 an industry . So I just want to make
15 that as a comment .
16 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
17 you .
18 ROBERT DUNN : This whole
19 discussion, what about the housing
20 subsidies . Now, I don ' t know if there ' s
21 something I missed, but there ' s one
22 thing that seemed to be on me, I had no
23 discussion of income limits at the top .
24 There ' s no way in hell that I should get
25 a housing subsidy . And there ' s nothing
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 18
1 in that discussion that inferred that .
2 So just a point .
3 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
4 you, that ' s a very good point . We all
5 have the informational session next
6 month .
7 ROBERT DUNN : Okay . Any discussion
8 should be accompanied with that .
9 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : We ' ll
10 make sure that -- that is clearly laid
11 out .
12 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : And I
13 just want to add, this is a small
14 section of our housing plan that all
15 comes together . So this is just one
16 piece that we have to look at .
17 ROBERT DUNN : Okay, but it ' s just a
18 discussion --
19 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Right .
20 ROBERT DUNN : -- included nothing
21 about not even the potential for limits ,
22 I don ' t know what the limits would be ,
23 but there should be limits .
24 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah,
25 we ' ll have that spelled out . Okay,
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 19
1 thank you .
2 ROBERT DUNN : Okay, that ' s just a
3 common thought .
4 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah,
5 because if you ' re coming into this
6 conversation now, you wouldn ' t know .
7 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : And just
8 to know . Well , you know, there was a
9 discussion of the subsidy and the
10 bonuses , one of the bonuses did mention
11 income limits of those below 800 of the
12 area median income, which in Southold
13 Town and Suffolk County is $ 109 , 000 per
14 year for a family of one . That ' s 1000
15 AMI . So rough numbers , $ 80 , 000 for an
16 individual . Incomes below that would be
17 given preference , but this is strictly
18 affordable housing, which at least
19 according to HUD Guidelines is up to
20 120o AMI . So it is kind of baked into
21 the process , but I think your point is
22 well taken .
23 ROBERT DUNN : Both are all things
24 you know .
25 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI :
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 20
1 Absolutely, and that ' s what I was going
2 to say . Your point is well taken, that
3 we need to communicate this .
4 ROBERT DUNN : ( Inaudible ) .
5 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI :
6 Absolutely .
7 ROBERT DUNN : I know you ' re working
8 on it, but I think you should approach
9 the dredging differently . We ' ve spent
10 -- I mean, when I first built my house,
11 we were spending upwards of $70 , 000 on
12 dredging . And then Jimmy came up with
13 an amended kind of plan to soften that a
14 bit . And it worked that way for a
15 couple of years . So Jimmy Roth did his
16 first one -- just when he started . It
17 was an excellent job, but as time and
18 tides will do , it comes back in . But
19 instead of trudging all that away, I
20 mean, coming -- back up a bit . Last
21 week we had that crazy moon and it was a
22 really far out, no tide . The beach,
23 technically, is almost to the end of the
24 jetty now . And I mean, just so you
25 understand this , there ' s only one person
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 21
1 in the world whose recliner looks at
2 Goldsmith ' s Inlet . Me . So, I mean, I
3 literally, my television is there and
4 Goldsmith ' s Inlet is there . So , I have
5 constant picture of it for seconds and I
6 can see changes in minutes and hours and
7 days . And it just, the idea of going in
8 and clearing all that out every time we
9 do it, I think it ' s foolish . I think
10 it ' s a waste of money . We could go down
11 there with a Southold loan backhoe and
12 cut through that spit . And if it fills
13 in again, cut through it again . There ' s
14 no need to move all of that sand . And
15 the benefit of doing that is as I told
16 you about that beach going further out,
17 that ' s going to change this swirl . What
18 it comes west east is a swirl . Some of
19 it goes out we have more control . But
20 some of it comes in and that ' s the sand
21 that comes in, that ' s the sand it should
22 be going further down the beach . So the
23 more we can push that shoreline out, the
24 more sand that ' s going to continue down
25 the beach to the other two beaches that
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 22
1 have their own problems . So rather than
2 having it flow into the channel and into
3 Goldsmiths where it has to be dredged
4 again, let ' s let that beach go out . So
5 what my point is don ' t move the spit,
6 cut a hole through the spit, and let it
7 wait . Try it once . Try it twice, and I
8 think we can see a big difference and
9 the beach would just get further up,
10 further up, along to where the sand
11 would go past .
12 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
13 you, and that is basically the plan .
14 And I agree with you, there ' s so much
15 sand out to the east side of that, you
16 know, when they built that jetty, so in
17 my lifetime, we could run as kids , run
18 off that jetty, and jump into the water
19 on the east side . And now, it was deep
20 enough to simply jump in . And now it ' s
21 just so much sand there because the sand
22 is all coming through the jetty . So
23 thank you for the observation . You have
24 a great view .
25 ROBERT DUNN : I don ' t know if you
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 23
1 had a good talk with Connecticut people
2 or what kind of communications there is
3 between Southold and the people there .
4 But we know I have an issue with wood
5 coming up and coming in . If you go in
6 that little cove between the hills and
7 the formerly Snitzer and the county
8 property, that little cove, we struggled
9 for probably five years . The community,
10 with the help of Mattituck ROTC and we
11 cleaned that up and now it ' s just a big
12 lumbar pile again . And I mean it was
13 growing and some of it hasn ' t really
14 cleaned up, but there ' s probably a
15 hundred rods in there because that ' s
16 where they float , it floats .
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Yeah .
18 ROBERT DUNN : When it ' s over,
19 they ' re there and it ' s just done . And I
20 mean, it was looking beautiful with
21 grasses came back or a junk had been
22 cleaned up . The cleanups kind of
23 dissipated, but maybe we can get that
24 going again . But meanwhile, it ' s
25 just -- that ' s why I ' m not coming from
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 24
1 Southold .
2 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Most of
3 the garbage comes from the other side
4 too .
5 ROBERT DUNN : I ' m sure we do our
6 Sheriff Office .
7 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : It ' s
8 just the way the tides run .
9 ROBERT DUNN : But the bottom line
10 is they need to do something about the
11 wood in their rivers . This isn ' t on the
12 beaches . This has come with two major
13 rivers that come down from there . And
14 it ' s just carrying them. They drop
15 trees like fallen leaves . So what do we
16 get? We can end -- it ' s just
17 destructive . Lots , that ' s how you do
18 it .
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : No,
20 that ' s a good point . Not just for the
21 garbage that we get . It ' s also -- I
22 can ' t imagine the navigation has it,
23 that they have it there . Those are
24 big -- those are big logs .
25 ROBERT DUNN : Yeah, they ' re huge .
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 25
1 When I just reiterate something I ' ve
2 said before . I speak like crazy . You
3 know, I go -- I wanted to take a picture
4 so I could show them or something, and I
5 go from Mattituck to here . If I drive
6 to your house , your house , your farm
7 stand, I have to drive 40 . When I leave
8 the farm stand, I can go 50 . If I go by
9 Cutchogue school , I got to go down to
10 20 . Excuse me, Mattituck school , I got
11 to go down to 20 . If I go by Cutchogue
12 school , it ' s 30 . That ' s inconsistent .
13 I use that word, it ' s inconsistent ,
14 because your lawyer can tell . You know
15 what inconsistency can do as a tool in a
16 lawsuit . So if you ' re not consistent ,
17 somebody can really use it against you .
18 And this isn ' t there . By the time you
19 get into Southold, it ' s down to 30 . And
20 in between Southold and Cutchogue, it ' s
21 50 . It ' s just -- I don ' t think our
22 speed limits have changed that much .
23 People will use it against you . And
24 people -- And people just get the
25 attitude, "Oh, I don ' t care . I don ' t
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 26
1 care . "
2 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Just to
3 add, the Transportation Commission does
4 have that on the list of items we ' re
5 going to bring to the Town Board and to
6 New York State Department of
7 Transportation regarding the
8 inconsistencies . We ' re not recommending
9 one speed limit, but not so many
10 changes .
11 ROBERT DUNN : Well , I mean, should
12 be appropriate by all the schools . If
13 30 is appropriate, then that should be
14 true . That ' s confusing --
15 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : And
16 there ' s laws around the school needing
17 to be 10 miles .
18 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : And the
19 Transportation Commission has worked on
20 the County road, working with the County
21 traffic engineers to try to make that a
22 little more orderly . And we ' re having a
23 hearing in January .
24 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI :
25 Information .
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 27
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : On
2 changing those speed limits to make them
3 work . That ' s the County road .
4 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Working
5 on a good list for the New York State
6 road .
7 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
8 you .
9 ROBERT DUNN : And the last thing is
10 just today when you went on break, and
11 this has happened to me before, Computer
12 shuts everybody down . That ' s not a
13 problem because you ' re not really
14 talking anything . I ' m talking about at
15 the work session . The thing that won ' t
16 let you back in . It actually tells you,
17 no, unable to join this webinar . You
18 were removed from the webinar by the
19 host and cannot rejoin . So there ' s a --
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Okay .
21 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Was
22 there -- did you have your name on it?
23 On the break . Because you ' re supposed
24 to have your name on it . And if you
25 were -- there was one . It just said
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 28
1 iPad 42 that we did remove because we
2 didn ' t -- but technically you have to
3 state your name, if you ' re on there . So
4 I don ' t know if that was you . Well ,
5 that ' s how you come across on there .
6 See the names on --
7 ROBERT DUNN : No , no, I hear that .
8 Did you see my name this morning?
9 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : No . No .
10 ROBERT DUNN : Not at all ?
11 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Not at
12 all . You might have been that iPad 42 .
13 So when you go on a Zoom rename
14 yourself, and then we ' ll keep you on and
15 we won ' t knock you off . Okay . Because
16 that ' s probably what happened today .
17 Okay .
18 ROBERT DUNN : It ' s not the first
19 time it ' s happened .
20 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : So just
21 make sure you have a name , whether it ' s
22 your whole name or just your first name
23 or okay --
24 ROBERT DUNN : I know what you ' re
25 talking about . I know what you ' re
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 29
1 talking about .
2 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Or is
3 there any way just to enter that if you
4 come up is that just to put it in the
5 chat , that you ' re identify yourself?
6 ROBERT DUNN : I ' m sorry?
7 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : If you
8 put it in the chat, would it be -- would
9 you be able to identify yourself through
10 Zoom so that you wouldn ' t have to -- you
11 could be iPad 42 on the screen but
12 you ' ve identified yourself to us that
13 who you are --
14 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Yeah, that
15 is what I was just going to say .
16 ROBERT DUNN : All right . Okay .
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
18 you . Any other comment?
19 BILL SMITH : Bill Smith ( inaudible )
20 Drive, Cutchogue . I was checking out
21 the work session from last week, and
22 obviously, as a homeowner, I was looking
23 into your now working on having permits
24 for tree work . Logic to that is what?
25 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I ' ll
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 30
1 let -- Jill is the liaison to the Tree
2 Committee, and we had one Code Committee
3 about that so far . There ' s another one
4 planned, I think, for early next year .
5 BILL SMITH : I heard that there was
6 a lot of progress in the last
7 discussion, but as a homeowner, I ' m
8 asking why I have to get a permit from
9 the government to do work to my house?
10 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Simple
11 answer is bad actors .
12 BILL SMITH : So actors as in
13 homeowners or contractors ?
14 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Both .
15 Both . But it ' s , you know, as the town
16 gets more populated this has been a
17 request from a lot of people for years
18 now . And as the population grows , you
19 have more and more people coming in
20 buying up a residential property, clear
21 -cutting everything . Knocking down that
22 house and wanting to start out with a
23 clean slate . And we find that as it
24 happens more and more, it actually
25 changes the character of the
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 31
1 neighborhood . It environmentally is
2 negative, water quality . There ' s so
3 many other things -- and I don ' t like
4 making new codes . And I want to try to
5 simplify what this proposal is , and we
6 want to make it as simple as possible ,
7 but also to let the public know that you
8 think twice about degrading a piece of
9 property . We got to Page 10 , and we
10 have a few more pages to go . So it ' s
11 going to be at least one more Code
12 Committee meeting, if not another . So
13 hopefully by the end of January, we can
14 set up another meeting . So please look
15 out for that meeting and come and
16 participate . We did have a couple
17 industry members come and give good
18 advice on it . And yeah, so it ' s a work
19 in progress . And it ' s unfortunate that
20 we have to start doing that . The
21 proposal did say one tree , and I did
22 recommend it to say three or more trees .
23 So If you ' re taking one tree down
24 because it ' s just the shade is too much
25 over your roof or something . I ' m not
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 32
1 going to --
2 BILL SMITH : You just don ' t like
3 that tree on your property?
4 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Or you
5 just don ' t like that tree on your
6 property .
7 BILL SMITH : That you own .
8 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : That
9 you own . You don ' t have to come get a
10 permit for that .
11 BILL SMITH : That ' s kind of what
12 I ' m getting at is . I own the property .
13 Yeah . Technically, because I have to
14 pay the government taxes and everything,
15 I ' m a long-term lease holder . But it ' s
16 mine . Next thing you know, it appears
17 -- and I ' m not saying it is . If I come
18 off insulting, I ' m not doing it on
19 purpose . You ' re having me get a permit
20 to take down a tree on my property . But
21 it ' s the next step . I have to get a
22 permit every time I ' m going to cut my
23 lawn . It just is just --
24 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Well ,
25 I ' m worried about property rights myself
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 33
1 --
2 BILL SMITH : And build . So this --
3 this way, I have a government employee,
4 town employee coming up . I ' m gonna take
5 this tree down . I really don ' t think it
6 should come down . Well , it might not
7 have to come down, but I want it down .
8 Well , you can ' t take it down . That ' s
9 BS .
10 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah .
11 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : That ' s
12 -- that ' s the problem. When we when we
13 looked at the code, the proposed code ,
14 who is going to administer it and how
15 long is that going to take? And we
16 agreed to have a prolonged discussion
17 because how do we prevent people from
18 just coming in clear-cutting with no
19 plan versus someone who just wants to
20 maintain their yard and do what they
21 want?
22 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : And you
23 have a lot of mature landscaping around .
24 What if you want to re-landscape your
25 whole yard and it includes taking a tree
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 34
1 or two down? I don ' t think we should
2 make you get a permit for that .
3 BILL SMITH : Even going into that .
4 I ' m not saying you, but I ' m saying now
5 the government ' s telling me, I have to
6 get a permit to take down tree . Next
7 year, you ' ve got to get a permit to cut
8 your lawn every week . The year after
9 that , the plumber ' s going to need a
10 permit, right? The town itself, I have
11 to get a landfill permit, right? And
12 then in that work session, you were
13 talking about increasing the fees of
14 most permits and special events . So now
15 you ' re going to increase the dump
16 permit . You ' re going to increase the
17 dump permit for contractors who then --
18 I do work for a contractor, yes , but I ' m
19 also a homeowner . Now that contractor
20 is going to push off the cost of his
21 increased permits and dumping fees ,
22 because the dumping fees in the last 10
23 to 15 years have probably gone up 25 to
24 300 , at least . They ' re going to push
25 that off on me . If you look around this
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 35
1 room, what they refer to us is leftover
2 locals . So you ' re charging me more .
3 Charge the second homeowner that owns
4 the second home here . Charge the third
5 person -- the person that owns three
6 homes that is coming here for June and
7 July or August . You know, and then I
8 have to get a permit to go to the
9 beaches . Other resort communities , when
10 they do their fishing permits and
11 everything, you have a resident and a
12 non-resident . The non-resident pays as
13 much as the resident does for one week,
14 those fees . So If they ' re not a
15 full-time town resident, make them pay
16 more . Stop nickel and diming me,
17 yourself, your children, your
18 grandchildren . We ' re the ones that are
19 fighting to stay here, and you ' re
20 charging me more . And that ' s more of
21 what I ' m aggravated at , is not just a
22 tree permit . So taxes went up and I
23 understand that, over 70 , right . So now
24 my resident landfill permit goes up next
25 year on top of it . So you have 7% this
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 36
1 year . I ' m going to be paying the
2 increase for the for the things next
3 year and whatever my taxes go up next
4 year . Hochul introduced a inflation
5 relief payment that she ' s putting into
6 her budget for next year, correct?
7 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I don ' t
8 know what you --
9 BILL SMITH : It is . She put into
10 her budget -- Right . -- everybody making
11 under $ 300 , 000 is going to receive an
12 inflation reduction payment between $ 500
13 and $ 1 , 000 . So every fee or every
14 permit that you make me get, that ' s
15 being eaten up by that . So that ' s --
16 It ' s a no brainer . It ' s a wash . It ' s
17 nothing . So instead of Making it more
18 for me to live here , why do that? In
19 the work session, you know, you ' re like,
20 yeah, raise this one . Raise the special
21 events one . That one should be a
22 thousand . The attorney ' s like, yeah,
23 that ' s my price a thousand . Well , some
24 farms here , who I happen to have a
25 little more involvement in, were made to
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 37
1 get special event permits for a four to
2 five week season . Four to five weeks .
3 You have four to five weeks of sales for
4 the year, and you make us get special
5 event permits . The Town Attorney ' s
6 Office does . And now you just want to
7 double those . So that ' s another thing
8 that ' s from a five generation farm,
9 correct? We do things similar to you .
10 It ' s not a hay ride , but it ' s a tractor
11 ride . The same thing . We have to pay
12 the County an amusement ride fee . I ' m
13 sure most farms out here don ' t pay that .
14 We have to pay the State for a farmers
15 market, which in turn you make us get a
16 special events permit . That ' s going to
17 double next year . So why do the special
18 event? Why have a four week season?
19 Meanwhile, most farms are from April
20 until November . We ' re four weeks . And
21 we have to spend upwards of $2 , 000 ,
22 $ 3 , 000 a year to get a special event
23 permit for four weekends . I think that
24 we should really have a discussion about
25 that , when other farms that are doing
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 38
1 different -- different items aren ' t
2 required to get permits to have those
3 functions , but they have the same amount
4 of people . Maybe a little bit less .
5 The vineyards out here have grown wild
6 doing all kinds of things , harvest
7 festivals , whatever . And for four weeks
8 of selling a product, we have to pay
9 thousands of dollars to special event
10 permits . And when you talk about it,
11 yeah, it should be $ 1 , 000 . Yep, it ' s
12 going to go up $ 100 . Yeah, they should
13 have the extra fee for being late or
14 whatever, which I get . But what do I
15 do? Go to the State, try to get, you
16 know, permits to grow marijuana -- to
17 your neighbors , right? Look for the
18 special housing, affordable housing .
19 Say to your neighbor, oh, guess what, in
20 a year or two , you ' re going to have four
21 neighbors in your backyard . You ' re five
22 generations . We ' re working on two , and
23 we want to try to make it three , maybe
24 be four, maybe five . Town Boards making
25 it -- Town of Southold is making it
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 39
1 really difficult . So we just kind of
2 want to be treated more like other
3 farms .
4 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well ,
5 thank you for the comments on the
6 special event . It has been a struggle
7 to try to maintain safety and traffic,
8 and that ' s been one of the big things .
9 Noise and traffic have been the big
10 concerns that have been a struggle for
11 the town to address those . And as far
12 as the beach permits go, we did an
13 analysis of how much it cost the town to
14 manage the seven beaches , because the
15 Rec Department has to hire beach
16 attendants and lifeguards . That ' s very
17 costly . The Police Department has to
18 patrol the beaches to make sure they use
19 for town residents . DPW does a
20 tremendous amount of cleanup . Not only
21 the garbage cans , but the repairs and
22 paving and all the work to keep the
23 beaches as nice as they are . So you ' re
24 in either Cutchogue -- you ' re probably
25 in Cutchogue, New Suffolk Park District
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 40
1 like I am. And those on your tax bill ,
2 that ' s one of the lines , you know?
3 BILL SMITH : Yeah .
4 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : It ' s
5 the Park District . And so then you and
6 we don ' t complain about it because we go
7 down to the causeway, you know to the
8 Park District . We don ' t go to a town
9 beach . And we pay to have that beach
10 kept nice . So you pay for all those
11 things because they all cost to keep
12 them nice .
13 BILL SMITH : Exactly . So that ' s
14 kind of my point , Left over locals like
15 ourselves that are trying to govern the
16 town, live in the town . You know, most
17 municipalities have garbage collection
18 included in their taxes . I pay the fee .
19 I pay the dump, and I get taxed on it .
20 Solid waste tax going up almost 100 .
21 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Garbage
22 collections , I can comment on that , is
23 very expensive .
24 BILL SMITH : I ' m sure it is , but
25 there are a lot of other municipalities
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 41
1 pay similar taxes that also have the
2 garbage collection . The Cutchogue Fire
3 District tax is going up 36% this year
4 and then now you want to increase the
5 permits . So that ' s why permits have
6 agitated me beyond all doubt , right?
7 Everybody ' s saying inflation this ,
8 inflation that . Your taxes go up .
9 County taxes go up . Everything goes up
10 on here and then you ' re telling me you
11 want more . Some of us are tired of
12 saying, okay, we ' ll give you more . Who
13 cares about that? I ' m guilty of it,
14 1000 . But if you want that money or you
15 need that money, increase the taxes by
16 120 . That ' s more to explain then I ' m
17 raising your fees . Most people aren ' t
18 going to pay any attention to it . And
19 unless that permit for the tree thing
20 came up, I would have not even realized
21 that everything was getting almost
22 doubled by listening to the work
23 session . To try to get a little more
24 information because I was a little
25 insulted . So I don ' t know how to say
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 42
1 it, is -- the leftover local is fighting
2 to stay, that his kids , one moved
3 because she can ' t afford to stay, and
4 the only way the other one is going to
5 stay is if I sell her my house . So that
6 knocks off half of what I had planned
7 for retirement . But I ' ll do that, but
8 if they ' re not able to stay here anyway,
9 what am I paying here for? You could go
10 somewhere else, and then everybody will
11 say, if you can, go . Get out of here .
12 But I ' m the jerk that says , oh, it ' s my
13 hometown . Went to Mattituck High
14 School . Want to stay . Every one of us
15 could pack up . I ' m sure a fifth
16 generation farm, you probably have a
17 little more plans or suggestions that
18 you could pass along on how to make it
19 to the next generation because, you know
20 what , if you hammer in everybody else
21 permits and fees and whatever, gentlemen
22 said before that agriculture is an
23 industry . Well , that industry might
24 disappear, one by one by one by one .
25 And a lot of the agricultural that ' s
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 43
1 kicking up into here is all big
2 agricultural by big construction
3 companies . So they ' re buying up all the
4 land if it ' s agricultural , if it ' s
5 protected, preserved, or not . And then
6 we have a lot of stuff coming . So I ' m
7 sure that ' s why you ' re trying to put a
8 lot of these other things into play,
9 simple purse . But I got a good BS
10 meter, and it ' s coming up, and I ' m
11 getting angry about people telling me
12 they want more money . They want more
13 money, and then big dollars is winning,
14 and the leftover local has to go with
15 his tail tucked . Yeah, I ' ll make a lot
16 of money on my house . I still want to
17 live there . Yeah, so I would like to ,
18 after the holidays and everything, maybe
19 we can sit down with the Town Attorney ' s
20 Office and find out just why you ' ve
21 determined that we have to have permits .
22 Because I ' m well aware of -- because
23 you ' ve said so, necessarily isn ' t just
24 the reason why . I can fight it , but
25 it ' s gonna cost me . So is it cheaper
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 44
1 just to pay those permits and keep your
2 mouth shut . First generation thought
3 so . Second generation, I know it ' d be
4 kicking and screaming a little bit more .
5 So I don ' t know I just don ' t think it ' s
6 fair to because one person interprets it
7 one way that because you don ' t speak up
8 and you don ' t say anything, you have to
9 continue to pay for permits to sell
10 something on your own farmland . Could
11 you imagine the government telling you
12 that you had to pay $ 0 . 05 for every
13 pumpkin that you sold?
14 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : We do a
15 lot of paperwork on our farm . So, you
16 know, between Federal withholding and
17 Workers ' Comp, there ' s a lot of --
18 That ' s not --
19 BILL SMITH : Besides taxes . Well
20 -- There ' s a Federal Law through the
21 Obama administration, through forestry,
22 that we have to pay $ 0 . 15 cents on every
23 tree that we cut and sell , that we pay
24 to the Federal Government . Know nothing
25 about it . They send us a letter saying
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 45
1 that you have to pay this . You look
2 into it through the accountant . Yes ,
3 it ' s real . It ' s not a scam. So now we
4 pay the Federal Government 15 -- only
5 $ 0 . 15 . But guess who pays for it?
6 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Guess
7 who does the paperwork? You do .
8 BILL SMITH : Right . Yeah . But now
9 the government ' s telling me, Mr .
10 Krupski , You sold how many pounds of
11 pumpkins? I want $ 0 . 05 for every pound
12 or I want $ 0 . 05 for every pumpkin . So
13 some of us are tired .
14 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well ,
15 come in and see me sometime . My door is
16 open .
17 BILL SMITH : I would like that .
18 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Okay .
19 BILL SMITH : There ' ll probably be
20 three of us . But obviously, the first
21 generation and the two that are gonna
22 try to make it the second generation .
23 Okay . But otherwise, it ' s some of the
24 farmland here is already slated for
25 marijuana, right . So instead of putting
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 46
1 a crop in and I have to wait seven years
2 for that crop to come . Taking it that ' s
3 not the most profitable product . But I
4 can put marijuana there if I pay the
5 State Government enough money . In
6 hundreds of thousands of dollars in
7 licensing and fees . And then the State
8 makes millions and millions of dollars
9 off a tax . But I don ' t know, if I was
10 next to you and I started growing
11 marijuana, would you be upset?
12 Probably, right? Probably . And once
13 you got free --
14 ROBERT DUNN : It shouldn ' t be in a
15 residential area . It stinks .
16 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well ,
17 seriously, comment in --
18 BILL SMITH : So from permits to me
19 being ticked off about how a farm ' s
20 being charge permits . But that ' s what
21 ticked it off . It just started
22 everything . Another permit to do
23 something to my house . If you ' re having
24 the problem where they ' re coming in and
25 they ' re tearing down the house on Nassau
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 47
1 Point and ripping the half of the
2 property out, when they buy it, have
3 them put a stipulation in there that
4 they can only remove so much or
5 whatever . Majority our work is all
6 residential . It ' s not land clearing and
7 whatever, so it really doesn ' t matter to
8 us . You know, we don ' t come in with
9 bulldozers and --
10 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah --
11 BILL SMITH : -- goes and rip
12 everything apart .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : We ' re
14 working on separating that the land
15 clearing from tree removal because
16 they ' re in many cases two separate items
17 and then .
18 BILL SMITH : And then ask them on
19 the other case, they come and they
20 butcher everything . They can because
21 they have the utility .
22 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah .
23 BILL SMITH : All right , I ' m going
24 home . Thank you .
25 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 48
1 you very much . Anyone else like to
2 address the Board?
3 (No Response ) .
4 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I don ' t
5 see anyone on the computer or the
6 audience .
7 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I ' ll
8 make a motion to adjourn .
9 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I ' ll
10 second that .
11 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
12 favor?
13 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
14 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
15 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
16 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
18
19 (Whereupon, the meeting concluded . )
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DECEMBER 17, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 49
1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
2
3 I , Jessica DiLallo, a Notary Public
4 for and within the State of New York,
5 do hereby certify :
6 THAT , the within transcript is a
7 true record of said Board Meeting .
8 I further certify that I am not
9 related either by blood or marriage to
10 any of the parties to this action; and
11 that I am in no way interested in the
12 outcome of this matter .
13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
14 set my hand this day, December 17 , 2024 .
15
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17 ( Je / sica DiLallo )
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