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ZBA-12/18/2003 HEAR
TOWN OF SOUTHO~D ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK TOWN O F S O UT H O L D 6 7 Z ON I NG BOARD O F A P P E AL S $ Seutheld Town Hall 10 53095 Main Road 12 J December 18, 2003 1312 Q 9:35 a.~ 14 Board Members Present : 15 RUTH OLIVA, Chairwoman 16 LYDIA TORTORA, Board Hember 17 VINCENT ORLANDO, Vice Chairman 18 GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, Beard Member 19 GEORGE HORNING, Beard Hember 20 LINDA KOWALSKI, Beard Secretary 21 22 23 25 COURT REPORTING AND TP~ANSCRIPTiON SERVICE {631) 878-8047 2 C~AIRWOHAN OLIVA: Public Hear!rig fee ~. and R. P~' e 5300 _~_pp, Number and 530& } Pave ~ re~uesn from ~ppi~caF- ~ arno~ney _o posYpone ~e ~c Hatch 18 2004 dl 9:35 a.m. 4 pending a recelN~ sf the ~u{lilnG inspec~sr s Amended Notice of Dlsapprova! reg~rd~no ~ application 6 19 submission of ~meRded lesign and layeu~ ~r s~ner update frem appllca~ ~ 6 Fegardi~g acquisition of ~d]o~xin~ parcel- n~a~ I ~ave ~ BOARE M~SER NORNING: I'1! make the me,ion. ~ C~AIRWOHRN ~LiVA: Secend? 80ARE MEXSER IOEHRINGER: Secold. ~ C~AiRMOF~N ~iVA~ Ail ~n ~avo~ WhereupeN. all ~eard Members !0 respoeded in favor. ~HAINWOHAN O~IVA: meved. CHAIRWC~AN D~IVA: Dun next 12 hearing is 8:35 Lecke and Sara Ridgeway HcLean a~ Fishers Island. leorge, wenld you like 13 fill ~s in on ~1i t~e details? We ~idn h se~ ~ 8eARn MsM~_R HORNiNS: Fe b~in~ us up ee date ~ be!leve tNe appilcan~ took 15 ~o sun successions and concerns with ~heir prior ~ ' · snomission~ and plans ~nc nney kave 16 recomsidered ~E ~nd redesignec ~Nat nney ~¥ann ~e io ind i believe attacNed ~re p~opes~ng 1i Ee ~a~e an arnacNed a~d_t±en ~o their hcus~ instead of a separate garage. 18 ~HAIRWOMAN Ob!VA- RLokt. You would he in laver 19 BeAnE MEHBER HORNING: I weeid be yes. 20 HR. LARK: Richard 5ark Hain RoaO in CutchoGue ~or the applicanT. ~e're }n an 21 adlourned hearino ~efere yen as yeu're opening the~ u~ KRd it's been submikted Re tNe 22 buildlnc inspecner _ brie~ yo~ ~eai guick ON ZE bring ye~ u~ Ee date. Instead of a 24 23 b~ 30 detached gR~a ~e's new a 26 by 30 antached addition It's living ~pace ~ew. 24 From hhe zoniRc po~nE of view ~f you 25 ~nree ~ront yaros .~h~ or~cinal proposal wsen D~c~. oe~ !6 P~903 3 1 2 gloaming. New it's 27 and a half feet elf the gleaming. In other words, they moved it up 3 another 12.5 away from the roadf and, in fact, from a numbers point ef view, ~t's really a 50 4 percent request now as opposed to the other number before for the variance in the front 5 yard in this area. Miss McLean wanted te be here, but a glitch in her scheduling didn't 6 allow it, and she's kind ef talked te Mr. Horning, and she's kind of thrilled with 7 the rethinking of the project, because net only does it give her the storage that before 8 she was upset about that they didn't have, but it's given them additional living space. It's 9 worked out quite nice, and she's quite happy with the amendment as you have it before you. 10 So I think net to belabor the record, for all the reasons that I gave you before that meet 11 the statutory criteria to give the area variances required and the balancing test 12 apply not only here again, se I won't belabor that and I just ask respectively that you de 13 approve the application with this reduction as you have before you today. 14 CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Thank you, ~/Mr. Lark. Is there anybody else in the 15 / audience that would like to comment en this application? If net, do I have a motion te 16 c!ese the hearing and reserve the decision? BOARD MEHBER TORTORA: I just 17 think it's one hundred percent improvement. MR. LARK: So does Mrs. McLean. 18 BOARD HEMBER TORTORA: I'm glad you went back to the drawing bearO and we've 19 eliminated a let of the concerns and it leeks excellent. 20 MR. LARK: They completely rethought the whole thing after our last 21 session here and I'm glad that she was here because if I tried to relate that, it's not 22 the same thing as the interaction she had with you. Okay, thank you. 23 BOARD HEMBER HORN!NG: The concern for the driveway with the detached ante the 24 read and all that stuff, all those concerns are gene. 25 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: It's great. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: is there December 18, 2003 2 a g~rage in hh~s now? MR. LARN: No. s ROAR- Kr~BER GOENNIN~ER: The garage is co!nc no s.ay where nn was? 4 MR. LARK: Yeah. They're going take tbe lunk nut 5 BOARE MEMBER GOEHRINGSRt And pu~ l~ ~n ~he addition? 6 MR. LAR~: Fhat was peru of the rnthinking process. BOAR~ MEMBER GOEHRINGER: ! see. You had me golng there flor ~ minute. 8 CHA~RWOMR_N- 0DIVA: Do ! nave a motion ~o close the hearang and reserve ~ decision? BOARE MEMBER HORNING: i'11 make 10 the mo~on. BOARE MEMBER ~OEHRINGER: Second. 11 CHAIRWOMAN 9LiVA: Ali in favor? Whereupon, all Board Hembers 12 responded in favor_ CHAIRWOMAN OL!VA: So loved. 2HAiRWOHRN ~IVA: The nell 14 hearing az 9:32 -s for Hartin and 21orinda Nartmann Number 5425 ~his zs nm Axoler's 15 Read in GreenperE. is tNere nnfbody nN audience that woi!d like rs soeak? 16 HR. HARTMANN: ex the owner the properny. 17 2HAiRWOHAN DIlVA: What wcRl! you like Es tell us snr? 18 MR. HARIMANN: We wane ho sum a Florida room uE nero bas~caily for our ~es 19 enloy. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Dc you hsve any 20 commenes? BOANE MEMBER IOEHRINGER: If 21 could pass jusu one second because ]usu goE the tile and I apelcg'ze I zid look ar 22 tPe no I ~i 2ommsnr. did have leek al the orooeruv approximately ~ week ace you 23 said. Nr. Hartmann eno purpose ef the addition ns for what? 24 MR. HARTMANN: Florida room. CHAIRWOMAN 9LiVA: WhaE room? 25 MR. ~ARTRR~NN: Florida room. 2HAIRWOH~N ~LIVA: Dk~v. December i~ 2003 5 1 2 BOARD MBMBER GOEHRINGER: This is a one story addition for the rear of the ~ house? MR. HARmPANN: Correct. 4 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: And can carry the same side yard approximately 6.2 5 feet. I don't have any objection. CHAIRWOM~AN OLIVA: Mrs. Tertora? 6 BOARD MEHBER TORTORA: What is the size ef the new addition? MR. HA~TMANN: 16 by 32. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: 36.5. 5 MR. HARTMANN: 36.5. BOARD HEHBER TORTORA: 36.5 by? 9 MR. HARTMANN: 16. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: SO the 10 existing setback is 6-3. You're going te be following the side yard, which would bring it 11 down, run parallel te the existing house so it would run down te 6-2, an inca less; is that 12 accurate? HR. HARTMANN: Correct. 13 BOARD MEMBBR TORTORA: I don't have any further questions. 14 CHAIRWOM~N OLIVA: Mr. Or!ande? BOARD MEHBER ORLA3IDO: Ne fu_~her 15 questions. CHAIRWOMAN 0LIVA: Mr. Homing? 16 BOARD MEMBER HORNING: I might just ask if you considered locating it on the 17 south end, the building rather then the west? Were you you have much more room there but 18 if you have some reason not to de that. MR. HARTM~NN: It's a lot easier 1S te put it where it is. ! have bedrooms en that side of the house. Se I'd have to 2{ reconstruct the two bedrooms i have. I'd have te put a doorway into there. 21 BOARD MEMBER HORNING: So this is the most feasible place for you? 22 MR. HARTMANN: Correct. BOARD MEMBER HORN!NG: Thank you~ 23 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Thank you for coming. I have a motion te close the hearing 2% and reserve decision until later? BOARD MEMBEN HORNING: i'11 mame 25 the motion. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second. December 18~ 2003 1 2 CHAIRWOMAN DLIVA: All in favor? Whereupon aii Beard Members 3 responded mn fsvsr. OHA~RWOHAN 3LIVA: We'll have a dec!sion for you p~-ob~biy in a couple ef weeks. W~ usually have a special_ ~.~e~L_no~ ~ ~ ~we 5 weeks later and probably about five days -- we should know by then anyway if you're approved 6 m~ takes another five days until it's given te the ~own 21erko HR. HARTMANN: 8o I'm approved Ncw? 8 CHAIRWOH~N- O{~iVA: No. You have ~c wam£ for ~ws weeks. ~ MR. RART_M~_NI~ Okay, thank you. 10 HS. ROWALSKi: ~e received this ~e~er t~is mornino Bruce, it came in about 11 9:00 Oblec~en ec Haeassakis (hanoing) . C~AIRWOHAN D~VA. Next hearing is 12 on behalf Df George Napassakis, Number is ~here anybody mn the a~dience that wishes 13 ~e speak fc~ ~h~ ap~!icatien? HR. ANDERSON: Yes~ ~ruce I{ A~_d-_bon Suf~oik EevmronmeNtsl Consulting, for the aDDlicant o~ ~ _ ~e~ ea Kapassakis. if 1~ 2ould iusE hand ~D a Yax map so you can see the let mn re~Rtienship to the neighborhood. 16 ~OARi HEMMER ORLANDO: Wc have one. 17 MR. ANDERSON: You have this? BOAR2 }{EMBER ORLANDO~ Yes. 18 MR. ANDERSON: The Kapassakis family wishes ~o build ~ single-family 19 dwelling on ~ ie~ which lies in ~he R4O zoning district- ~kat let area is 32,390 sqhare feet. 20 The application before yam proposes a house that would con~aln a first 21 floor !iv~ng area }z i 20~ sG~are ~e~ with an attached garage motsling 598 square re~. The 22 seconc floor consLsrs of 1,402 scuare ~eet. This ms a ~our bedroom iwelling, and it, 23 inciudino hhe ietached ~ccessory structure found north Df ehe proposed dwelling, lot 24 coverage mn %his aeplic~t~oN would total 6.8 eercen~ where 20 percenn is required. As i 2S sa~ ~n fa'is mn ~ne R40 zo~ixg d~strict~ _ _s a preexisning, December 18, 200~ 7 1 2 hen-conforming let for two reasons. Number one is the lot contains less than 40,000 3 square feet and is no~ conforming with respect to area; secondly, is it also non-conforming 4 with respect te let depth as the required let depth in the R40 zeno is 175 feet, and this 5 let has a let Oepth ef 120 feet. It is because ef the limitation on 6 let depth that we are here today. If the frontage on this property were otherwise, we would easily be able to meet front and rear yard setbacks. ~ This particular lot was created as Let 10 as part ef the map ef Aqua View Park, 9 which was filed en July 30, 1971. At that time it was processed under the zoning in !0 effect, which was the 1965 ordinance, which would have provided for lot area ef 12,500 11 square feet a front yard of -- CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Hr. Andersen, i 12 think we have that information. MR. ANDERSON: - five feet and a 13 rear yard of 25 feet. Ay point in saying that is that this is a lot that was o'versLzeO at 14 the time it was created. It didn't have ~he limitations as /out and designed and it is 15 only because of. ~uent zoning amendments that we find ours{ives with the problem we 16 have. Others have experienced the same problems, specifically, the neighbor directly 17 te the south, Sloven Schott, has a similar sized let wiuh similar limitations with 18 respect to lot depth. Pursuan% to a zoning decision gra~ted by th~s Beard dated 3/15/01, 19 Number 4896, that rear yard was reduced to 34.2 feet te provide for ax attached deck. 20 Similarly, many years prior there was an application made and granted by Peter 21 Frumenti, who lived on Stars Read, just south of the property. In that app!icatien that 22 zoning beard of appeals, Number 530, the zoning board at that time granted a front yard 23 setback reduction ef 15 feet along a right of way, which is shown as the unnamed road te the 24 south of th~ property after en your tax map. Part ef that zoning decision tells us thae a 25 front yard setback of 35 feet would be maintained. ~'11 hand these up so you have December 18, 2003 2 these handing~ . 3 same ~_f ~alty as 3thers have. ,~e ~ 4 and Belty Desenkowski. It Ls ~mporuanE ii knew that the mae Avua V~ew Farms was 5 develoeed by the Desenkewski family and !~ was an oversized let ~ the u~me iu was leve]csed. 6 It is also lmporEanu ue neue that the ~ars~e which now finds itself iea -- ~u's No~ a ? garage -- the detached accessory s~r%~c~ure the north ef the proposed dwelling was also 8 constructed oy the Desenkows~i preper~y. ~e submit an undesirable change uo 9 neighborhoodw±~ no~ occur. If you leo~ the survey before you you will see that 10 iwellings are sketched in~o the north end ~he south and they ~re ~u 35 feet from the front 11 let line; amc then of seurse the rear yard relief was ~ranted ze tko Let Ii ne the south 12 at a lesser setback than ~s proposed herein~ ~A~RWOHAN OLiVA: What ~s 13 length and width Df zhis house? ~R ANDERSON ~ne ~eng~h oI ~ne 14 hcuseev~a=~ ~ ~s 60 feet and Eke width house - uhe iepth Df the mouse I presume you 15 mean -- including porches ~nd bay window 45 feet as shown DR the survey. 16 i~A!RWO~{_~I }Li\~: Is ~k2re ~y way that Eke iepth e= the house 2ould be cur 17 back a iimtie b{~ ~urther khan this eo make 18 N!R ANDERSON it would cause a 19 a sihuaE~on where we re puur~nc 7oc m'~ch house on a properEy, fou nave mc ~d~_s~nd we're 20 occupying a mere 6.8 percenn ot khe ~ou mrea and we think -- you Know wnav we Nave Nero 21 we have side yard setbacks tndE ureaEiy exceed what's requlred in this zoxe even it 5;oN cc 22 Sect!on 200 of ~he Town soda. CNAIRWOP~AN }LIVA: realize that. 23 HR. ANDERSON: Sc }ur problem us net toe much house nor zs ir nc% enough ]and 24 fur that mavEer. Our eroblem is a limited ef ~e~b o~ 128 fee~. Se when -v was ia~d 26 we tried no lay our ~ house shat won d actually tit Ln £hls n~chbo n~od and as ir Dece..o~r 18 2003 9 1 2 turns out it does in a way that's consistent with ether variances already granted hy this 3 Beard. The change -- you have te understand when you're 35 feet back from the lot line, 4 you're actually about %5 feet back from the read because you have an additional ten feet 5 ef read shoulder. Se we de net think the house will leek imposing from the street er 6 from the rear yard~ CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mrs. Tertora? 7 BOARD HBHBER TORTORA: This is a brand new house, it's virgin as far as what 8 has transpired in the neighborhood. The prier variances were granted to a pre existing 9 house, brand new lot, brand new house. As far as the 35 feet setback requested, there's no 10 question that you can redesign the house to make that %0. The configuration of the house 11 being %5 feet wide, you've jetted out in the front te that perch area, as well as where 12 you've get the driveway coming in. On brand new houses, brand on new 13 lots, this Board has net and will net be inclined to grant variances when clearly the 14 burden of proof is en the applicant. Why you can't design a house that can fit en this 15 property; that's where I'm coming from point blank. There's ne question that a house can 16 be designed on this property, a four bedroom house, that will meet the front yari setback. 17 That's my comments. CHAIRWOMAN OHIVA: Hr. Orlando? 18 BOARD HBMBER ORLanDO: i agree with Hrs. Tertera. 19 CHAIRWOMAN OHIVA: Mr. HerRing? BOARD MEMBER HORNING: I'll ask a 20 question as te the garage also. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: it's there. 21 BOARD MEMBER HORNING: Even though they're proposing it? 22 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: No, the garage is sitting there now~ No house. There is a 23 garage sitting on the pr©perty. MS. KOWALSKI: Isn't there another 24 garege? MR. ANDER~ON:~ The garage doesn't 25 function as a garage. It's simply a detached accessory building and a two car garage December 18, 2003 i0 1 2 ~ttached within the srrucuure ms proposed. MS. KOWALSKI~ You said l¥'S blank i i98 s~uare fe.~. HR. ANDERSON: Correct. ~ BOARD MEMBER GOERR!NGER: 2an we see a copy ef that letter fr}m the Neighbor? ~ MS. KOWALSKi~ V~ncent }ave i~ ~o you. Do you wanm ao comment? 6 BOARD MEMBER GOE~RINGER: lush wane me say that based upon your presenraumen you are preuuy correct mn Eno situation ~h~a existed we did have 12.500 scuare foam & zonmng; however, the health deearrmenh mn 1966 reluired everybody mc be 20. }00- they weu_d S non approve anything. Sc thor's the reason these lets exceed 20 000 square feet because lC we did go uc one acre ZOnlnc ~n that nime. This let =s approxm~mteiy 12 319 ever 11 even though tNe zoning was 12 500 mt was really 20 based ueon the health deparumenE 12 situaE!on. ~ne Df the ma~or concerns that I 13 have with this particular area and uno area across the snreen which ms GL_fauna Drmve is z4 that what the future is going ~c brinc when ~' you have reau~ed se~tacks and aaded tecks a~d ii sw~mmmnc -}oois and sc Dn and sc forth unar usualls~ occur somemmme after. 'fhis lot or 16 2ourse 1s ~oruunatelv larger ah~n ~Ra~ area una~ I lus~ menuioned across khe srreev. WRen - say across the snreeu I'm referrlnc ~o across the Hamn Road and a iinlle west. 3n 18 these smEuauions I myself as R Bc~rd member are reguesumno~ a mandate for ~he persons .~a~¼ = 12 are reguesemng those variances and very s~mply saying that we re nov r Non 20 granzlng any decks en these hanses ii you're askinc ~or a reduction already. ~o zhan s 21 Dna of the mssues here and ¥ do support Eo a 2eruamn degree my 2olleague's onLnmons 22 regarding the house a 45 foot wide house ms preeuy wmae Bruce. I think you coula scale 23 mn iown a little bit and you knew mn my particular case add a little - basically 24 gmve us a little on tNe front yard g~ve us a little in the resr yarc and ±st s see what ~se 2S 2an deal with. HR. ANDERSON:_All rlcht }~_±~ December 18 2801 il 1 2 I'm hearing that you're looking for a 40 foot setback off the front yard? 3 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: That's right. MR. }!NDERSON: I have net heard a 4 setback off the rear yard that you're looking for. I've only heard the front se -- 5 BOARD HEHBER ORLANDO: I think if we remove the bay, if I'm net mistaken, I 6 think it's about four feet in depth. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: You ceuid get 7 46 feet in the back. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: On the rear 8 bay. MR. ANDERSON: It's a bay window. 9 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: If you make that ~lush. 10 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Have a nice picture window. 11 MR. ANDERSON: You understand each house en either side -- 12 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: This is a new house. Every site is different. 13 MR. ANDERSON: Okay, the lot to the south is nearly identical. It truly is. 1~ CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: This is a Anderson, we take different applica~ien. Mr. s 15 each appiication/hy itself. I would agree / with my celleagsas that I think you can take a 16 bit off the front and a bit elf the rear. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: The front 17 garage -- I'll wait until you're dena writing. MR. ANDERSON: Yes. 18 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: The front garage is in front ef the front perch by three 19 feet also. If we can make that flush also that reduces the front yard setback. 20 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: In other words, what we need - 21 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: It would make the front yard somewhere around 38, 39 22 feet. CHAIRWO.~AN OLIVA: 40 front and 45 23 back. Go any way you want would be far mere acceptable to this Board. 24 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Then it weu!d be a rear yard setback. 25 CHAIRWOMAN OL!VA: 40 front and 45 rear? December 18, 2003 12 2 MR. ANDERSON: How dc yev w~sh rc proceed; de you wan~ ~{ leave this eeen u~til 3 we came bace? 2H&iRWO~NN ~iiVA: 2lose tke 4 Nearing and reserve des~slon~ BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: DoN't we 5 want te see plans? HS~ KOWALSKi~ Usually what 6 happens, you submit ~n amended elan writing. The Board would 21ese the hearing 7 subject te receiving that CHR!RWOMAN }LIVA: Take tha~ u~ a~ 8 a special ~' 8OARD MEMBER TORTONA: Ciese the 8 hearing we'd like ce see a dO feet front yard setback and a 45 feet rear yard setback and 10 the hearing is closed, i'd like ec have a ~otlon, please. 11 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Se moved. 12 BOARD MEMBER HORNiNG: Secznd. CHAIRWOMRN OL!VA~ Bef~r~ that 13 does anybody else ~n ~Ne aud~c~ want sc speak in favor or ~G~ns~ tills application? 1% If not, ~he motion s~anis All ~n iavD~? (Whereupon all Board 15 responded in favor. MS. KOWALSKI: Br~ce because of 16 {he Neliday, ! dsn ~ know i~ ~eu re going e be rushed by doing ~h~s but eno Boare likes 17 te receive t~e amended eians ~no Fr_day belore ~he next meozilg, ~f yo~ can z ~ake ~r ~he 18 Friday before Januarp 8hh and ~ would be the Friday before tNe following mee~ln~ ~h~cn 19 would he January 22nd sc th~ Friday sefore ~s the 18th. 20 HR~ ANDERSON~ I wo~id say let's shoot for ssbmissien be£sre tPe Friday 21 before. We could even dc ~ha~ khe one after that. I~'s no~ ~e~ng ~e ~o~he~ me h~cause 22 we're Jn ~he win~er rime. FS. KOWALSKi: You don't Feed a 2S date to submit it then. It would go en agenda a~ter that for ~ iec~en. 2~ MR. ANDERSON~ }r soon thereafter as pessibie~ 25 HS~ KOWALSKI: As ~oen aft~ as possible, ~hat's r~ghh ou~ nan later ~nan 68 December 1~ 2003 13 1 2 days. MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Very good, 3 thank you. CHAIRWOMAN OL!VA: Thank you, 4 Mr. Anderson. 5 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: The next hearing is en behalf of Terry Capezzela, 6 Number 5%4%. This is for an enclosed perch at less than 35 feet from the front lot line. Is V there anybody here who would like to speak? MS. CAPOZZOLA: Yes. That's me, 8 I'm Terry Capozzola, and I just received my last return receipt (handing). 9 Well, I actually didn't realize that there wasn't a CO for this porch. I 10 purchased the house a few years age and it only came up when I was trying to sell the 11 house right new, that there was ne CO for this perch, which near as I can figure was enclosed 12 in the '?Os because ! know the previous owners and the owners prior te that, and I know the 13 porch existed then. So I'm just basically trying to ge through complying with the 14 building department's request with all the documentation, and I sent out my notices to 15 all my neighbors and I don't know if this matters, but a picture of what it leeks like. 16 ! don't knew if yen're going to make me tear it down. i? CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: I didn't quite make your house. The water was too high 18 yesterday with the rain. MS. CAPOZZOLA: Oh, you mean 19 people actually visit it? CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Sure. I got to 20 the Mattituck parking lot. HS. CAPOZZOLA: it was pretty bad. 21 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Se i headed back east. 22 MS. CAPOZZOLA: There's no heat on it. It was enclosed, and it's basically, it's 23 an enclosed porch. In terms of the interior there's bifeld deers, se you could have it as 2% a little sitting area, whatever. I had it as a little music room~ 25 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mrs~ Tortora~ de you have any questions? December 18, 2003 I 2 BOARD HEHBER TORTORA: Nc only that you wen!d have no oh~ecL~on -~_, ~f fact that there _s no ½est m~ s nor avsable 4 s~ece and lU weuidn h be lenverted mnue uhat- weu!i that be acceDtabiel 5 HS CAPOZZOLA~ That s perfectly acceetab!e. 6 BOARD MEMBER TCRTORA: Thank you. CNA~RWOFAN OL!VA: ~r Oriando7 BOARD HEMBER ORkaHk-DO~ I believe you answerei my one quesulon. The addition 8 looked quiue weathereG ~nd you hal said you sbvieusly lived localP in ute nemchborheod S You've seem ~m there~or~ many years b~fo~ ~ you bought it? 1{ HS CAPOZZOLA: Ne. WhaE the people I purchased the house from Mike a~d ii Joan - I can'n remember Ehelr names but anyway -- 12 BOARD MEMBER ORLANN{ : Kalus~i? MS. CRPOZZOLA: Kalu~ski yes. Arld 13 the house ~he porch was enclosed when they eurchased mu And the prevmous Dwners 14 ~hem Hike Uommanoc and Nanette p~irchased zn the SOs ~nd I persemaiiy ]{new t!-em 15 because when I was gozng ~ ou=h the mor-ons of buvanc the house found ouu that 16 used uo ~wn zu, and I was askmmg then ~uesrmons. I contacted them and rhev ~aLd 17 when they pl:rchased khe house ~ne eorch was exlsu~nc also. So we're uoe surs ween ~ was 18 enclosed. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Sc it 19 through several nmn!e searches without 2atchinc that one? 20 Mm. CAPOZZOLA: -~' And iidn't use ~ personal arnorney, use~ the 21 bank and the haRM's ~zuorney and 1~ ~usE never 2ama up. i hsd no knowledge 22 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO A~sc you submitted a survey, don't see a dare dc 21 yeti know when that was? I{S. CAeOZZOLA: 1975 24 BOARD MEMBER ORLANBO it shows the eorch was tNere? 25 }~S. CAPOZZDLA:m_gm-~_' ~. ?ne eorch December 18, 20 3 15 1 2 showed me when I first went to the building department they have a picture ef it when 3 last you did your whatever you do, your -- BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Tax 4 assessment? MS. CAPOZZOLA: Right· It was in S 1970 something, and it was not enclosed at that time· So I suspect somewhere after that 6 survey 1975, is when the porch was enclosed. Because I think the Commandos purchased it in 7 the early '80s and he said the porch was enclosed at that time. 8 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: No other questions. 9 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Goehringer? BOARD HEMBER GOEHRINGER: I live 10 in Mattituck. I ge hack past the house at least twice er three times a day, and it's 11 been there a long time, and it's preexisting. I really have ne other comment on that· 12 CNAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Hr. Horning? BOARD MEMBER HORNING: No comment. 13 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: I pass by that way toe, and it's been there a long t~me. 14 Thank you very much for coming. Is there anybody else in 3his audience who would like 15 te speak for e~/against this application? If no one, I ask ~or a motion to close the 16 hearing and reserve decision. BOARD MEMBER HORNING: So moved. 17 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second. 18 CNAIRWOM~ OLIVA: Ail in favor· {Whereupon, all Board Members 19 responded in favor.) MS. CAPOZZOLA: What does that 20 mean te me? CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: That means in 21 about two weeks we will have a special meeting where we will make our decision and then 22 probably two days after that, you will have it. 23 MS. CAPOZZOLA: Thank you very much, happy holiday everybody. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: The next 25 application is Elizabeth Strupp, Number 5442. This is for an as-built location of a shed, December 18, 2003 1 2 er0oosed accessory poe! house structure~ and proposed deck, all less than 60 feet ~rcm the ~ lot l.~ne aZ 3 Brooks Point Road in ~isher's 2slanu. % MR. STRUPP: That's me. -'m not Elizabeth Strupp but I married her~ 5 CNAIRWOF~N OLIVA~ Okay. Mr. Strupp, what can we -- 6 HR. STRUPP~ Let me explain the situaelon. There are three structures that ~re ~n question. We bought our property, slml!ar te the last lady, about 15 years age~ 8 mayb~ 1{ years age. At the time e£ our purchase, the peel deck was existing. As a ~ ma~er of fact, we have cut the pool deck back from its original size. i don't really knew 16 when the pool was constructed, but i'm ~uessing it's probably been there maybe 20 to 11 25 ysars. The other structure, i'm going to now sEay in the same vein, the other structure 12 bemnc tho garden shed. When we bought the ercperuy 15 years age, that garden shed would 13 nave aypeared to have been 15 or more years old It's sn old, old, eld shed, and somebody 14 uuu il there. 'FPey diox't get a o~ildixg permmE. I went through the process o{?naving 15 hhe ~ians drawn up and having a buil~,mng permmu issued. And, obviously, now in order 16 re Gar the certifmcate ef occupancy then they discovered there was a setback violation. 17 Se tnat's why i'm before all el you. The third slructure is a poe] 18 house which i am responsib-e for having put hhere. So that's my doing. ! did il, 19 however, upon the issuance by the Town of Scufheld of a building permit. The current 26 building inspector sa~d, gosh, shame you iidn u go ahead and do what you sbeule have 21 dena and he's right - and closed out that builiing permit and gotten a Cef O because it 22 weuii hav~ been issued to you. And he said new can't paper ever what clearly was a 22 building mistake on the Bui_dLng Deparument's paru. I don't know how you mnterpreu your 2% rules but maybe somebody concluded, which ! think seuld he concluded, thaz where these 25 facil±~ies are located is not really a froxt imne. if you !oak at .ne plan et the December 18, 2003 17 1 2 property, the read in question gees down te the single residence ef the Roosevelts. These ~ buildings, none o¥ these structures are well, maybe the shed is visible to them from ~ t~at road; that's 32 feet from, quite frankly the edge of the read, and the road is probably 5 another 20 feet. And all along there there is certainly on the pool house, there's a ten 6 foot double hedge, so nobody can see into that property at all. And the ether read is I'm 7 very vacant anyway, and you come all the way out te the read, which is off of what we call 8 Brooks Point Road, nobody travels on that read except residents. And these structures are 9 probably, eh, gosh, maybe 500 yards from that road. 10 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Just a question: Is the pool being requested for a 11 variance also? HR. STRUPP: Ne. I think that's 12 fine. That was net in question. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: The shed, 13 the deck and the peel house. CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: That's what the 14 Notice ef DisaDproval said? MR. STRUPP: Yes. 15 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: The shed ever here by the garden? 16 MR. STRUPP: Yes. The shed which says shed which has that octagonal structure 17 on, I bet you that is 35 years eld. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Hew about the 18 tennis court? HR. STRUPP: That's all fine. 18 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: It's in your application, it says this appeal was made 20 te allow a tennis court to be built in the front yard; that's in the application te us? 21 MR. STRUPP: Isn't that the former application? We had a proceeding before the 22 law was changed~ BOARD MEM~ER TORTORA: The 23 application that I am looking at here says the appeal was made te allow a tennis court te be 24 built in the front yard. It's an original affidavit, it says sworn notary, and it's 25 dated September 30, 2003? MR. STRUPP: I did all that, December 18, 2003 18 1 2 that'~ euzzlino. When we built uno uennas couru that Eec was abo~k run years aoo we 3 did have ~c go ~hrou~h this because oi the lace ehar 4 ~s in hhe frDn~ yard our or{per~y being oN the waNer. 5 2HAIRWOM~N DLIVA: Se you appeared before the Zoning Beard au shat name? 6 HR. STRUPP: I iidn'n someone did on my behalf. 7 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: i'm lusm men£ienlng ~ because this is nhe applmcatiox ~ we have. BOARD HEMBER ORLANDO: Dc you 9 recall that Due Jerry? BOARD MEMBER =OE~R~N~R: The only lJ o~e I remember Lrom about ~en years aoo as the Jack Whitney eno hhat Steven Wamm represen~a. 11 MR. STRUP} Rzgnu. Jack Whitney they're sn the same road 12 BOARE MEMBER iOEHR!NGER: That's the only one I remenber as ~lese re 13 Droperuy line. HR. STRUP~ luLte frankly, on i4 that situation the ~aw I thin'{ was changed / sin2e ~hat couz~ was bu~i~ zo allow uenn~s 15 courts kc ex, sE an the queue ~ronn yard. mf youz properEy as located adjacenl uc the 16 waEer. BOARD MEMBER ~E_.~±N,=_R: And 17 1E meels a spec~flc setback. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: You re 18 correcL. The application was oaom~hed apparently by E~izabeth Strupn that would 19 have been your w~fe? HR. STRUPP: Yes. 20 IHAiRWOMAN }LIVA: Mrs. To~tera we have ~ pr~or an here from 197~ Lot a 21 swimming peel an the frDnm yard and an 91 for uennls ceurn and croquem 22 HR. STRUPP: !'m really skzz~ed ny Ks. ~ 23 MS. ROWALSK!: They're making reference ~o the praor appeal. Yo~2 re 24 describing the prior ~pplLcat~en? MR. STRUPP: R-~hn r-chu r~chn. 25 i'm non here an all_ about the ~_nnl~ 2oar~ hc~e I'~ Becember 18 208! 19 1 2 BOARD HEMBER TORTORA: Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Orlando? 3 BOARD MEMBER ORhANDO: This is a dedicated road, right, ~t's net a right ef way 4 even though used a private road? CHAIRWOMAN 0LIVA: Private road? 5 Because you're on the east end of the island, correct? 6 HR. STRUPP: Yes. Again, I don't have a -- wait a minute, yes, I de. If I 7 could sort of approach you all and show you something here. 8 CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Sure. HR. STRUPP: I can put these 9 things together. I'm a sailor, what i have been calling it basically it's called en the 10 chart, Breaks Point. Se I call it Breaks Point Read, but I may be the only one that 11 does that. BOARD MEMBER HORNING: I believe 12 that's pretty common. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: The only 13 person that would travel that road is the person at the end of the read? 14 HR. STRUPP: Chris and Roddy Roosevelt. re the -- it's almost like a 15 flagpole sit~ where they have taken that property off'this looped road. I don't know 16 why I can't make this thing work. But they're the only enos that come down that read. 17 BOARD MEHBER ORLANDO: And my next question is what brought this ~o a head? 18 HR. STRUPP: I refinanced my mortgage and I had the property resurveyed and 19 the Building Department looked at the survey and said, wait a minute, we den~t have a 20 certificate ef occupancy for this shed. And we don't see any - we see a building permit 21 for the pool house, but you didn't close it out, and new we've determined that's in 22 violation and the peel deck they also discovered existed because it was not en the 23 prier survey. Se they said ge about correcting all this, which I did, I'm a real 24 estate lawyer, so I just represented myself. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: No other 25 questions. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Hr. Horning? December 18, 2003 20 2 BOARD MEMBER NORNING: Hr. Strupp when was that peel ½ous~ lenstructed? 3 HR. STRUP~ A prooabl¥ n -991 BOARD M~HB~R ~_ORNLN~ Same a es the ~enn~s 2ourt? MR. STRUPP: Yes s~r. ~ort~y 5 ~fter we had aceuaii~ acquired the premises ~nd ~aFted ~e make ~merovemenzs ~o them. 6 BOARD MEMBER HORNiNG: With ne building permits far ~t? MR. STRUPP: Ne. ~o. ne. ~at's The }ne where the Buildinc Deparrmen~ did BOARD MEMBER HORNiNG: You did ne~ 9 ~e~ the 20? MR. STRUPP: Then as an idiot 1{ lid no~ have the insoec~ens made and close 11 BOARE MEMBER HORN!NG: Okay. Also on what I woulo call the iriveway uhau you 12 share with the Reeseve!ts. le you know who mainEalns that lees Fmtcc have that Dr not? 1! MR. STRUPP: ! think preoaOly ~s a F~tco reseonsibi_ily hu~ ~hers path sack there if you wi_l. 15 BOARE ?{EMBER HORNINC: Sc you oon'u have nc pay mc nave !u plowed, mn Erie 16 wlnmer if you would as a !flyaway? MR. S2RUPP: it s nor yea 17 irLveway that use anyway and the ovxer 1~ Fhey leave basically Columbus Day weekend and never ~ppear anril Hay ~u sor~e oonnz whether 19 ~hey have nnau read slewed DUE BOARE KEMBER ~RLANDC The ceuid 2{ ~ve a hoot MR. STRUPP: I -usu tell you 21 maybe you ~1~ know that Armstrenc house sue zhere wonderful gardens apparently ~bouE 22 half of ~z burned lawn ~bout E~c lays ace. 2HAIRWOKAN OLIVA: heard about 23 that. I heard thev gee some Df the valuable things ouu. 24 MR. ~TRUPP: I uhink they d~d. BQARE MEK~ER HORN~N~: .... r~ 2~ ioubt this _s a ~r~vsr~ rose ~rf D= a lecembez _8 230! 21 1 2 HR~ STR}PP: No. it's three times. It is a private road, off efa private 3 read, off efa paved private road. So it's an east end road, then you make tile loop that 4 we're an, Jack Whitney's house was on that loop. Then you take a read efi that leap back 5 in you dead into the Roesevelt's house. If anybody was coming down there they're either a 6 guest, er they're lest, er they're trying to de something unlawful. 7 BOARD HEHBER HORNING: It's basically a driveway? 8 HR. STRUPP: Right. It's basically a driveway. 9 CHAIRWOF~N OLIVA: Hr. Goehringer? BOARD MEHBER GOEHRINGER: Knowing 10 the area and knowing the privacy e~ the roads, I have to tell you I don't have any particular 11 objection te your buildings. BOARD MEMBER HORNING: I Nave erie 12 other question. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Yes, 13 Mr. Homing. BOARD HEMBER SORNING: Through the 14 grapevine I heard same scu~tieb~tt abou~ a neighbor being opposed; did you hearing 15 anything; is there anything in writing? HR. STNUPP: No. 16 BOARD HEMBER HORNING: Okay. HR. STRUPP: That's strange, i 17 talked to Chris about it, i have now received back five green cards. The one card I don't 18 have is fram a man named Cadus. He called me, and he said, hey, I'd love te meet you end we 19 have absolutely ne objection whatever to what you're doing. Hark Gamaud, who is across the 20 other -- I mean across the second private read that Jack Whitney was on, he's a very good 21 friend, and he may or not build on his property, and I knew he has no abjection 22 because he and I are en the beard of Fitce together, and we've discussed this. Se I 23 can't imagine what that would be. BOARD HEMBER HORNING: Yoe heard 24 nothing and received something in writing? MR. STRUPP: Ne. i mean did Wall 25 say this or something? BOARD HEMBER HORNING: I'm net December 18, 2003 22 1 2 going ~e ~ay. MR. STRUPP: Than s e~ay. i'd : love re ~ncw. nS. KOKRLSK!: Mr· ~nrue~ 'm 4 going rc ask ]~ou for the green cards. MR. STRUPP: have four sf them. 5 They were delivered me my o~fice. MS. KOWALSRI: There will be ~ 6 fifth one coming later- ms that what you said there will be five? MR. STRUPP: Mark Gamaud who is the one card I don h have. will call him & and he had the unfortYnate situation ~hat he was an Arthur Anderson paruner and 2hey nave 9 relocated him he San Francisco. Now I mailed 1£ ~o the aax ~ssessor's office and i'11 sor~ 1{ ef run him oown ~nd find auk. mf he s received mm_ Mayb~ his wife ms stmil living mn 11 2onnectlcut. MS. KOWALSKI: We den'£ have the 12 wNiEe receipus ei2her. MR. STRUPP: The wh~e recemn~s 13 have beer faxed re Jessmca. MS. KOWALSKi: W~ have had a phone 1% !al~ yesterday they were mlss~nc. MR. STRUPP: Yeah. I lusu hadn 15 go~en ~n. My mail. iepsr~menr ~ook 2are o all that I can car you the armglnal. 16 Jess!ca s3on is 2o~ng re hav~ th~ 20pies. KS. NOW~LSR7: Okay if po~ 2an 17 nave those· CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Thank ~o~ vesy 16 much· ~s there ~Pybedy else mn the audaence here that can speak for er agsmns~ Fhis 19 apDiicati}n? If nco E'd like rh~ mouiox re close the hearino ~no reserve teclslon. 26 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA~ A~i mn favor? 21 Whereupon all Board Members responded mn favor. 22 MR. STNUPP: Can I ~usu ask you a quesn~en when m~ght i Near? ~e ocr sam6 23 money tied ue mn escrow wmmh mv bank as refinancing· 2a CHAiRWOMAX OLIVA: We usually hav~ R ~oecJal meeuing -n ~wc weeks then 25 dexlslon is wr-~ren sc let s say nxree weeks. December 16 2003 23 2 MR. STRUPP: Thank you all very much. CXA!RWOMAN OLIVA: Next hearing 4 is for Everett and Melissa Corwin for a new porch addition en Brawn Street in Greenpert, ~ Number 5445. Yes, sir. MR. CORWIN: Helle. Yes, I would 6 like te build a front porch in front ef my house. There's a cement slab in front of the front door right now, and we'd like te just build a front porch. I don't knew hew else te ~ say it. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: May I ask you 9 why you weren't posted yesterday? HR. CORWIN: I was pasted. i{ CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: I didn't see it. 1] MR. CORWIN: It's in the front yard, there's -- 12 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: I saw a stick but I didn't see anything on it. 1! MR. CORWIN: Maybe the wind blew it down. It's been up. 14 CHAIRWOMAN OL!VA: Okay. Hr. Herning/~de you have any questions? 15 mom~/BOARDRt MEMBER HORN!NG: I'll pass at the 16 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Hr. Goehringer? BOARD MEHBER GOEHRINGER: Mr. 17 Cerwin, as you know you had a prior variance en the house, it didn't menkion that within 1~ the prior variance -- you knew, the house is quite tall, ~z's quite large and probably one 19 ef the reasons why you want the porch te do that, but you know, there's a degree of 2C pushing the limit, and I think we're at that degree. And I'm just mentioning that te you I 21 mean in reference te hew much you can build en a 50 foot lot, and I'll pass at this point 22 until I hear from my fa!law colleagues regarding this. 23 CHAIRWOF~N OLIVA: Mr. Orlando. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I'm in 24 somewhat agreement with Mr. Geehringer. I'm not totally opposed tea front porch you have 25 an eight foot, six foot would be acceptable far me. Ne other questions. December 18, 2003 24 1 2 CHAIRWOMRN OLIVA: Krs Tortora? BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: ~e ~ ~an~ed e va-~!anse on ~Nis p~oper_v At tile £1me that we l~aNted rna variance ~ 21early recall this aenlicatien thal we had iiscussed the fact t~at this was ir was 5 large house, you wanted ~o go up hc 2rea~e more room but we were a!s¢ concerned that 6 ~his would ne~ be a further exeans~en. 5e really am havinc a ie~ o~ problems wLth ~hls because zoere are three va~ance~ ~ ~Nd that we're relues~lno lot coverage you wane ec go 8 from 20 percen~ rc 23 percenc- you wsnz 2en~inue ~e the reduced side yards which -s S r~oht on £op af your neighbor's ~roeerzy ~nd you wae~ ~e come ~erward co rNe road. You re 1{ ~ 34 7 now and now you eanr To knock that iewn having a front yard setback of 26 fee~. il Se Oulee frankly I'm nor ~n favor of hhis ~pplicatien_ 12 MR. CORWIN: Hew am reducing the ~ide ~ards? Ii BOARD KEN~R TORTORA: Vou re conrlnuino ~o extend ~ioNo that e~d wh ch is 1% what we oranted you a variance for przncipal he~se last y~ar san you re feet 15 4.~ feet from your neighbor's pro~0er~y line now You wslc co continue ~ha~ ,.[ inches 16 from the proper~y ±~ne Row foe ~he porch. Sc that s usz exacerbatinc r~ne problem. You 17 wane zc increase yo~r lot coverage Y~l.s clme Dyer the i~mle. I really kind sz acree wi~n 18 Hr. loehringer. ~here ~ a limit i ~n~nk we've reached ~. That s my 2ommenr. 19 ~AIRSOMAN DLiVA: Hr. Horning? BOAR2 HEMBER ~ORNING No 2{ sommen~s. ~OARE MEMBER sO~HR_X~_R, wanu 21 £e reflect on eno thing. Pesslb!¥ pou 2euid consrruc¥ a porch lust :var the fxont does and 22 ne~ ex, end in ou~ nc both s~ees e! the heuse- ~hat would be within variance p~v~ew ann ecu 23 as s~gni~ican~ as the ~ssue ~hae we re discussing a~ this paine. 24 MR. 2ORWIN: Dkay, ~o ii I - wcule i have rc reapnly agaLn and cc ~hreugh 25 the whe-e procedure if I 2hdnoet the Nisnsl 2HAIRWOM_~N DAiVA: You could usn ~c,~ .b~r -? 209- 25 1 2 give us amended plans. The lots there are very small, and there is just no room between 3 your house and another house. And we certainly wouldn't want te see that all efa 4 sudden you're going to apply for a deck in the rear. It's really tight down there. 5 MS. KOWALSKI: I believe the Board wanted an amended site plan te show. 6 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Yes, an amended site plan te show. 7 MR. CORWIN: I understand you say it's tight, but there's fences up and I have a 8 driveway on one side. I don't understand where it's making any - 9 C~AIRWOHAN OLIVA: But we have a policy that we only want 20 percent ef let 10 coverage for any structures en the property. You are just about 20 percent, if you put the 11 perch on the way it is now it would be 23 percent, and we do not leek favorably upon 12 this at all. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: If he made 13 it 20 feet wide, six feet deep, you have te give the gentleman a number to work with. i% Jerry, 20? BOARD MEHBER GOEHRINGER: I think 15 you have window and you don't want to extend it to the window on beth sides of the front 16 doer. So, i would architecturally try te dove!up something that would leek very 17 appealing, but not a porch across the whole front. We basically just did one and voted em 18 it. It was the first application, the name was DePeis. It was Cedar Beach. It was a one 19 story. They converted it to a high ranch, which is new a two story. It was a very 20 tastefully done front perch. Exactly the same situation that you have in reference te the 21 front property line and se en and so forth. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: I think some 22 ef the members of the Board really want te deliberate on this a little bit mere, but give 23 ~s your amended plan. MR. CORWIN: Okay, and I 24 appreciate if you're going to deliberate and stuff, just the phrase overdoing it to me, i 25 mean, overdoing what? I'm trying just -- I'm trying te make what I get lucky enough te buy December 18, 2003 26 1 2 better. I don't unde~sYand that s overdoing ~t. 3 2HAiRWOMAN ILIVA: Phs 20 ~J-r_e ~c r bas b~_n=~ a policy oz the Bea-~i ina i, takes a ~ lot for us ~c Io over ~a~ alonn~. HR. 2ORWYN Okay. ~ BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER- Do i~ the m~n~mum you can nc make ~n look 6 MR. iORWiN: Ail r~ght. Thank you for your Elms. _HAIRWO ~iahN DLIVA: Is there anybody else Ln the eudzence that would like ~ ~c speak in ~avor or aca~nsE ~he s~elication? If nee I would like ~ moE~on nc 21ese Ehe 9 hearinc ~nd reserve decision pending nhe rece~pe of an amended appizcamlon. i0 BOARD M=MBER COEnmlNGER: Second. 2HAiRWOMAN }LiVA: All in raver? 1i Whereupon all Beard Hembers responded ~n fever. 12 ........................... 2KAIRWOMAN DLiVA: The near 13 application ~s Mr. lobe Henry, Number 5436. The ~entleman wishes ,o pu~ ar sd~Lr~on s~ a 14 p~ece st properEy en Viiiags Lane an ~5 feen from the rear yard less than 25 feet ~n 15 s~ngle side yard ~nd exceeonnc the 20 percenm let soverage limitau~er. Mr. Senry, uood 16 mornzng how are you{ Ki. HENRY~ F~e ~hank you. 17 have ccp~s of the Not,ce o~ D~sepprova~ '~ anybody would like uhem. 18 2HAiRWOX~N }LiVA: We have them. MR. HENRY: And i alsc have e 19 ~able ~hDwing ~n ~rea~er ie~ail ?he coveraoe s~Euanmon. Kay I? 20 2HAiRWOH~N }LiVA: Sure. MR. HENRY: This ~s the main uhing 21 nhat ! w~nted you ne ~ee ~s ,he table. BOARE MEMBER IRi~RN-DO- I ~ ~orrp 22 2HA!RWOMAN uL~VA: Kr. Henry, would you lk~s~ 1Lke mc tell us what ycu 23 propose ~o del MR. HENRY: Yes. 2% 2HA!R~OKAN }LTVA: Beca~se i- s a small house and a small lou. 25 MR. ~ENR : Yes. It s ~c put an ex~erLer snazrwey on th~ south side sf the Deccmk~ 18 2003 27 1 2 house. And this would not have been the -- the coverage would not have been an issue 3 according te our eriginai survey, which is in that table dena in 1999. You'll see after the 4 addition had been put on, that is the stairway the coverage would have been 19.97 percent, 5 what happened is the lot was resurveyed and you'll notice, if you leek at the far 6 left-hand column. BOARD MEHBE~ ORLANDO: It shrank 7 from erosion? MR. H~NiRY: I don't knew whether 8 it was erosion er whether the different surveyor had a different standard for where 9 the beach ends our property begins. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Maybe the read 10 get wide iN the middle ef - HR. HFNRY: We didn't get a tax 11 reduction. BOARD MEHBER ORL~2gDO: Se the 12 infamous mean high water mark depending en if it's a full mean er net? 13 MR. HENRY: Se that's what brought about the problem, and you'll notice there's a 14 difference between wha~ the D~C's calculations and the T~'~n's shown down at bottom, that's 15 because ~' I 8~C guess includes paved areas s~ch as drive~,ays er sidewalks. Se it dropped d©wn 16 te 23.2 percent is what we're dealing with now if we add that stairway. 17 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: So it's jest the stairway tha~ you want? 18 MR. HENRY: That's correct. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Not the 19 deck? BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: ~hat's 20 there. CHAIRWOMAN O~IVA: Mrs~ Tertera? 21 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: !'m just a little confused because the Notice of 22 Disapproval makes it appear as though the deck, it says me~hed ef constructed additions 23 and alterations? MR. HENRY: Of the deck would net 2% expand the footprint. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Se you have 25 the second tier decN built. It's the first fleer that's not there yet? December 18, 2003 28 2 MR. HENRY: That's right there's cur~_Nt ~ lo~cre-e slab and we would jus~ ! cover hhat ¢or esthetic r~asons. 80AR- KEMBER TOR?ORA: ii you ~ a~ the Building Department Ape~ication Number this ~s what ~ confusing me a little bit 5 and tb~s ~s why i'm trying te ' they approved and what they didn't, It says 6 mention Df ex.sting ~ ~- sarucadre~ 36, with additions 42 and the rear. So that ~s what's making me believe that they did disapprove nnaE en the Building DeDar~..ent's application. 8 BOARE MEMBER ORLANDO: Because t~e new constructmon maintains the 22.4 rear yard 9 setback. BOARE MEMBER TORTORA: When we 10 wane nc the Building Depar~,,ent if you !oe~ a~ his app!icatien for the building - 1i the second page it leads you to believe that they did disapprove the 12 BOARE ~EMBER ORLANDO: The ground level lack. 13 MR. HENRY: Perhaps a photograph ~2ioht ~ffer 21arification. -'' 14 ~OARi MEMBER ORLANDO: ~'e have them as well. //~ 15 MR. HENRY: Okay. / BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I'm trying ~6 no make ~ure you don'~ have to com~ hack here ag azn. 27 BOAR~ MEHBER ORL~%DO: I agree, i believe the ground level deck does not exisn. l~ in needs a variance as well because cf the rear yard setback. -o~ BOARE MEMBER TORTORA: I ~h_nK~ ' so. last looking au the ~ ~ ~l~aF~=o a= 26 the ~Dplica~on. it's not just the stazrwell 21 MR. HENRY: Why does that Need a 22 ~OARE PIEHBER ORLANDO: Because you're building agrcund level deck that 23 exceeds the ~ear yard seEback. MR. HENRY: I have trouble 24 srasp~ng that. iHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: You a-ready 2~ have a concrete s~ao where zhe oec;{ wollld b~, al! you want nc do is cover that d~ck with a December 18, 2803 29 1 2 piece of wood te make it mere aesthetically pleasing? 3 MR. HENRY: That's right. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: ~t's the % resurfacing of a preexisting slab. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Can't we 5 address that en this? We just want to address it se you don't get an inspection and all efa 6 sudden they give you a stop work order. We want to rectify this once. 7 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Questions? BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Ne 8 questions. The day I went there it was a quick inspection because it was probably 9 blowing 40 miles an hour that day. Your biggest construction here is to move the gas 10 meter, that's right in the way of your construction, isn't it? 11 MR. HENRY: We will build around that. 12 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: You'll leave the gas meter as is? 13 MR. HENRY: The stairwell will actually come out from the house, it's not 14 hugging the side ef the house at that point. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: You have 15 natural gas er propane? MR. HENRY: Natural. 16 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I see that you had applied for a Trustee permit? 17 HR. HENRY: Yes. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: What is the 18 status ef that? HR. HENRY: We received it. 19 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: That's what I wanted to know. We don't have a copy ef 20 that. Do we have a copy of that in the file? CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: I'm looking, 21 ne. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I have ne 22 further questions. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I would 23 like te make sure we have a copy of that. CHAIRWO~ OLIVA: Would you 24 furnish us with a c©py of the Trustees permit? MR. HENRY: Sure. 25 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Goehringer, any questions? December 18, 2003 30 1 BOARE MEMBER ]OEHRINGER: Phis rc bring the tirst story ieck hc :rade- 3 other words sc you can walk Jown the slope from the garage or the lrlvewav? 4 HR. HENRY: The sva~rwav will g~ from ground level u~ ko the second floor. 5 BOARE HEHBER IOEHRiNGER: It will gc _o the second flDor? 6 MR. HENRY: Yes. BOARD MEHBER HORNING: Is thst a way ee gee off ehe ieck besides going lnLc the house? 8 MR. HENRY: That s right it's a house that we reno uo folks and in the event 9 that we de warm ue use the deck 1u their absence they have g~ven us permission ec so 10 we don'E have Ee ~e through their souse. HOARD HEMBER iOEHRINGER: What 1i provision are you doing tc buffer that trom the next door ne~chbor are you ~o~ng co use 12 lattice work- are you going ec use greenery? MR. HENRY: should add my wLfe 13 ~nd I Dwn the house nexn doer. HOARD HEHBER ~OEHR-NGER: T¼ey may 14 be ~he nex~ door neiohbors todav bu~ ~©morrcw / that ~ay be someone else2 25 KR. HENRY: Yes I think we would pu~ greenery ~lonc there. 16 BEARD HEM~EN ~OEHRINGER: W©uld you Dbjec~ zc a dec~slen essum~ng the Soard 17 was so inclined ro reserve 3he rlch¥ review any iandscaee buffering that you micNt 18 lo? BOARD ~EKBER }RLANDO: 2an we ]us~ 19 ~dd in the iecision natural screerlnC 3n vha~ side? 2{ BOARD HEMBER GOEHRINGER: Ani we have zo look ~ It We nave u0 see ~e. Or 21 lattice work I mea~ ~u has uc be something. It stands oue like ~ sore hhumk when 22 2omlnc off ee the second floor. ~S KOWALSK~: Before i 20 ~s 23 issued? HR HENRY: May uheck with my 24 architect on ehis one? BOARD ~EM~ER COEHR!NGER ~ure. 25 BOARD ~EKIEN GOEHRINGER Xa an 2hair if we 2euid take e three mznuue recess Decembnr 16 2993 31 1 2 Sometime in the near future? CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Yes. 3 HR. HENRY: Are you saying that we have to put some screening there or are you % just saying in the event we should, we would then come back to you. 5 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I'm saying you should, you have to. In the 6 respect that it's going to stand out. It's very visible from Village Lane. It's not 7 visible new because there's nothing there, but it's extremely visible when it's constructed; 8 and I think it's incumbent upon all applicants who have significantly undersized lots, and 9 you heard what we just said to Mr. Corwin with reference to his front perch. This is a side 10 perch. It's net a porch; it's a stairwell, and the stairwell tends to be extremely -- I'm 11 sure it's going te be gorgeeusiy built. I can see the plan and you have an architect doing 12 the plan, but it's going te be an open stairway. 13 MS. ~OWALSKi: What kind of height are you talkin? about? 1% BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: it should six feet. Some sort ef greenery 15 should placed around it. And you can do that o~%en and notoriously, I mean 16 extemporaneously, and wa'il just look at it. This is net anything difficult 17 MR. ~ENRY: I'm agreeable to that. BOARD MEMBER OOEHRINGER: Thank 18 you. CHAINWOHAN OLIVA: Is there 19 anybody else in the audience that would like to speak for or against this application? May 20 I have a motion -- yes, sir? MR. ARIIZUMI: Hy name is Hieeaki 21 Ariizumi. BOARD HEHBER GOE~R!NGER: You have 22 to spell that. HR. ARIIZUMI: H-I-E-E A K I, 23 A-R-I-I-Z-U-H I. And I would love to just reconfirm what variation we are asking for a 2% variance. It's kind of confusing because of the numbers, a let ef numbers there and l 25 think it's a very, very minimal activity. And the thing is what I believe is the side December 18f 2003 32 1 2 setback is listed in ~h~ agenda for today, but ~h .... shoul~ no~ be any vlolatio~ in the side ~ setback becanse f~ox _he ~ ~ o! an6 c~anoe o~ con~enYs of ~he survey map, % found ou~ the Dr~glnal design~cte~t~- had a little sade setback eroblem. Se I receltly - 5 and actually this year I changed and reduced the footprint 3f the proposal, minimal; ~ therefsre the one side setback is more than 18 foot and more than the 25, se that shouldn't be a prebiem. And the rear setback Is. which ~s normally -- I believe there's a 8 grandfather's rule be applied se the only sar~anse I should say i believe is the 2HAIRWOMAN 03IVA: Sir, did you ~0 submit a revised sl~e plan then snowing that Feu mean the 25? 11 HR. RRIiZUHI: Yes, I do ~ave in the Building Deesremen~ i submitted with the 12 buziding application wi~h my site plan showing that kind of stuf~ as well as the list of 13 ~umbers 2overage s~de setback ~-~hzn,~s' g . 2HAIR3iOHAN O3iVA: Ocu_d you see 14 that we le~ i 2e~y of that, nlea~e, oi the revised shewinc that you meet 25 foot 15- setback an amended omsapprev{'i? YR. ARilZ~{i: I can show you !6 r~ght now. 2HAIRWOMAN O~IVA: Do you have 17 copnes that you nan gzve us _~sht now? MR. ARIIZUHi: Yes. Ano two 18 gentleme~ have the ap~ro~red budget. KS. KOWALSKI: We wo~id also need 19 a Building DeearTmenn decision on tbs amended dzsa~proval 20 2HAIRWOHAN O~iVA: We wculd need an amended disaporeval from the building 21 deparzmeRu for you~ aoolication then. ~R. ARI!ZYHI: Okay~ 22 2HAIRWOM~N 03!VA: Because you say you mee[ the 25 feo~ setback, but we still 2i need the amended eisappreva! for the coverage for the ieck nkay? 24 MR. %RIIZ~{I: Okay. 2HAiRWOHAN O37VA: Sc we can close 25 the nearing snd reserve decisio~ suhjec~ te ~eu ~ubmitting ~he revised - ~" Decemcer 18, 2083 33 1 2 Disapproval and site plan? HR. ARI!ZUHI: Okay. 3 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Okay. MR. HENRY: Thank yeu~ 4 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Can I have a second? 5 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Second CHAIRWOPE~N OLIVA: Ail in favor? 6 (Whereupon, all Board Members responded in favor.) 7 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: So moved. Can we have a three minute recess? 8 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: So moved. 9 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Second. CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Ail in favor? 10 (Whereupon, all Board Members responded in favor, and a brief recess was 11 taken.) 12 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: I'd like to open our hearing again, the next hearing is 13 John Stadelmann and Jeannette Coleman, Number 5437 for a waiver of merger. 14 MR. ?ALLen: Good morning, David Fallen, Fallen and Fallen, S3 Main Street, 15 Sayville, New York, for the applicants. As you krew, what we're trying te 16 accempiish in this application is the unmerger of these two pieces of property en Stars Road. 17 You have the history of the property from the TPS abstract from the chain of title. 1971 it 18 was eurchased; the one lot named Fred Stadelmann, eno let in the name ef Edith 19 Stadelmann. So it was held single and separately in compliance with the subdivision 20 at the time. And then in 1977 thereabouts, Edith Stadelmann applied for a certificate of 21 occupancy for the house te be built on the southern let. The CO was part of the file. 22 it was granted. The Suffolk County Department of Health is listed on that, and the house was 23 built on that southern lot and the CO was issued just for that southern lot. 24 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Lot number? MR. FA~LOK: Excuse me? 25 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Lot number is improved? December 18, 2003 1 2 HR. FALLON: Yes. 18 Then the Town of course uNzoned the erc~er, y, ! believe around 198i sue l, was ~till held s~ngle and ~para~ely. a CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA~ I~ was held ,n two separate names? 5 HR FALLON: it was held ~n two separate names. Unfortunately what happened 6 in 1990 the Stadelmanns now we 2an hear Irom lehn Stadelmann but Mrs. Stadelmann was ~n her mid 70's ~nd Fred Stadelmann was ~n n~s mid ~0s a~ the ~me and they ~o tc 8 a~orney ~o dc some ~eG~ca~0 and esna~ piann~n? and unfortunately ~he anrorney was 8 unfam~i~ar with ~he zon,ng law obviously 'cause they had held this preperey separanely 10 for 20 years y}u know done the r~ght and as you see from khe chain nhe Stade!manns 11 au the time 2~ven their advarced age, weren · qu~te aware ef what was happen~no, and th~s 12 a~erney, unfortunately, merged ~he preper~ies~ And Feu see the teed and i don'~ 13 understand why he did a deed from Pditn Edith and Fred- and then ~rem Fred rc ~d~.t_ 16 and Fred end then Dn ec ~k~ eres~nn applicants Jeannette 2oleman and JoPn 15 Stadeimane ~ne~r children nhus mero~ng the properties. 8e after 28 years Paving seen 16 held s~nole and seearar6 this allorney merged the property. ~7 BOARD MEMBER IRLANDO: i'x sorrv. this happened ~n 1993 rh~s es~a~e planning? A8 MR_ FALLON Yes you'll see rne deed was 1990 ~n wasn't recorded until 1891. ~9 think there was some 2cnfus~on wi~h a~erney. Unfortunately that s a classic 20 leoai maipracr~ce su~ hut ~n s ~nly a three Fear s~a~e~e ef lis~na~ens on leoal 21 malpractice I mean mistakes happen bus unfortunate I io nave p~c~ures Df the 22 preperey for Feu. I~ the rear ol she pr©pertF- 2NAIR2~OHAN ~LiVA: Is ~ha~ 23 proper~y posted? MR. FALLON: Pr£perey was p3sted 24 BOARE MEMBER DR~AN.~O. I saw HR. FA_~LON: Th~s shows ~ne xear 25 lot shewinc ~he house and then uh~ lo~ ~rom the s~de ~nd my c~nenus ~ehn .... elmonn D~ ~- ~ ~c~.b~r 18. 35 i 2 Jeannette Coleman. John why don't you step ue. This is John Stadelmann, the son ef Fred ~ and Edith. They didn't dlscever the problem until they went te sell the property and John ~ had retained me. I don't k~ow how he ended up with a guy from Sasrville, I don't remember 5 why, but he mentioned we have to sell the house, and then he mentioned to me we have te 6 talk about the let te the north. And I said, wait a second, what let te the north, what about merger? That's when he discovered it, this past six months. New you're one ef the 8 owners of your property right, with your sister? 9 MR. STADELMANN: Right. MR. FALLON: Hake sure I have the 10 ages right, when your mother and father brought the property in '71 how old were they 11 about then? MR. STADELMANN: My dad was about 12 65, my mom was about 55. MR. FALLON: When they built the 13 property was that their principal residence? MR. STADELMANN: Yes. 14 MR. FALLON: That was their only reside~ce.r Se in 1990, that makes your father 15 abeut/~5, when they went te the attorney in 16 MR. STADELHANN: 84. MR. FALLON: And your mother about 17 74, 75? MR. STADELMANN: Yes. 18 MR. FALLON: When did your father pass away? 19 MR. STADELMANN: They talked about gifting the property to my sister and I and 20 very shortly after that he died ef cancer. MR. FALLON: 19917 21 MR. STADELHANN: Yes. ~R. FALLON: And your mother is 22 still alive, correct? MR. STADELHANN: Yes. 23 MR. FALLON: Unfortunately she's been in a nursing home? 24 MR. STADELHANN: She's been in the nursing home for a little over two years in 2S Katherine ef Sienna. MR. FALLON: How is her December 18, 2003 36 2 compe~encyl HN. STADELM~NN: She -s n©- 80AR~ HEHBER '~O~ORA: She 's ~ what? HR. FRLLON: Compe~enn ~he 5 unfortunately nas iemen~ia. BOARZ MEMBER 2ORTORA: Has ~he ~ been declared legally ~ncom~e~enn under New York laws or ~s ~e a medical assessment? HRo FALLON~ Medical ~ssessmen~ BOAR~ MEMBER TORTORA: Because ~ there's ~ legal iefinition of ~ncomeeuen~. MR. STADELHANN: Her toctor has 9 said that she's incempe~en~. I den e believe there's any New Yerk stare judgmenn on hhis. 10 ~OAR£ MEMBER TORTORA: }kay. MR. FALLON: Yo,a'rs ~ ' familiar with ~1 ~he proper~y? MR. S?ADELHANN: Yes. 12 MR_ FALLON~ Ca~ yeu iescribe the vacan~ land fram the ~enocran½ical ~andpe~ne? 13 MR. S_AD~KRNN: _ s essen~l~l-y a vacan~ let. There's %c wen]ands issoc~ared 14 wi~h ~e. ~nere's no ~narsn. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: ius~ uo ~ecan 15 the properties were 3u~ in u~sc ~eparaYe Names ~n 1971 ~nd they remained sc unzil the' ~6 some es~a~e slannino ~n 199{ an wi_ich ~me ~Ne lawyer kznd 3f i'as~ mixed ~n ~11 ~ose~ner. ~ ~ '~ wNich was 17 Sc ~h~y ~e ~n beth their names deedei in 1991 ~nd when Fou wenz nc sell 18 proeerey, you found out tNat ~ney had ~eroed am 2orrect? 19 MR. STADELHANN: Thsr s cer~ecr. All the years ~n be~weeF I rese~vod seearike 20 nax maps, and you ~ssumed because they oeen in si~gle a~d seeara~e ~na~ ~hey usn 21 remained so. MR. FALLON: Sc nc sho~ eccP©mic 22 ha-~dshi~. I have a rea~ es~a~e br~ker ~c ~es~fy quickly ~bout the valse. 23 Kathy can you snap u~ please Kathy, lan you ~n~reouce yeurseif nc hhe 24 8card please? MS. ROSENBNUM: ~i name 25 Kathleen RoseRbaum. I ~ the res eseare hrokes ±er Licyd s Real~v -~ ~ ~- ~c .... er 18 2003 37 1 2 MR. FALLON: How long hove you been in the real estate business? 3 MS. ROSENBAUM: Going on seven years. 4 HR. FALLON: Are you licensed as a real estate broker? 5 MS. ROSENBAUM: Yes. HR. FALLON: Where is your 6 business located? MS. ROSENBAb~: 124 Front Street 7 in Greenport. HR. FALLON: You work full time? 8 MS. ROSENBAUNI: Yes. MR. FALLON: As a real estate 9 broker? MS. ROSENBAUM: Yes. 10 MR. FALLON: And you're familiar with the property? 11 MS. ROSENBAUM: Yes. MR. FALLON: We knew that there's 12 a contract of sale that's been entered into for the sale ef just the improved lot for 13 $410,000; is that correct? MS. ROSENBAUM: Correct. 14 MR. FALLON: Concerning the vacant let te the north, do you have an expert 15 opinion as to the value of that let if sold as / a buildable lot? 16 HS. ROSENBAUM: Today it could be sold for approximately, based on comparab!es, 17 around $190,000. MR. FALLON: You ran comps i 18 believe and it shewed a couple ef sales? MS. ROSENBAUM: Yes. One let 19 there was a lot two doers down, half acre let, that was just sold this past year for $180,000 20 and another single and separate let a half acre only four deers down from that, both this 21 past year, and they sold one for $189,000 and one for $182,500. 22 MR. FALLON: And that was for 2780 Stars Read, East Marion, half acre, sold for 23 the 189 in July ef '03? MS. ROSENBAUM: Correct. 2% MR. FALLON: And 2320 Stars Road, East Marion said in June of '83 for 1827 25 MS. ROSENBAUH: Correct. And they're beth on the east side of Stars Road Dece~ber 18, 2003 38 · i heading norUno }dR. FALLON: ANd this 1£ KS. ROSERSAGH: Yes. ~ MR. FALLON: ...... hnfor~ana_e±y I didn't have a chance cc make ~ let }~ ceeies ~ of this, but I a~ least ca~ ~ive ~r vc the secretary for the file. 6 So in your seinien you ~hink the let zs approximately KS. ROSENBAL~: 190 uc S200 000 today. We ]usu had a 1~ l? ==eenperz for ~ about .3 ~hat was -us~ listec this wee~ for S195, }00 and already has ~ acceeted iffer. 9 The values of s~ngle iezs are ]usu rocket~nc because of the lack pt Land. 10 MR. NALLON: If the Staielmanns had mc sell the property - ~s merued il p~ece, do you have an opmnlon as ~o what the fair market vaius an acre piece would 12 MS. NOSENBAUH: Based on cemparables sold vhls !'esr, the seecs of the 13 house and so forth my 9eLNion Ls tha~ that house would 5eli in the high fo~rs maybe ~85 14 ~c 490 somewhere in lhat range ii 'ne was sell without the unmerger. 15 MR. FALLON: Is this ~h~ee Df the comps that you had !ecked out? 16 MS. ROSENBAUH: Richt. Al! that sold within this easu year 17 HR. FALLON: Roughly 2emcarable? MS. ROa~NBA~H: Yes. 18 MR. FALLON: Agama I apelogsze and I didn'n have ~. shance me copy ~aLs I d 19 like ~o after that handiPg Now if ~se property ~.s ~sor 20 unmeroed, does the location ct she louse affect _he va=ue? 21 MS. ROSENBAUM: i be!{eve lc does because what are yon ~Olng .o cc w~rh a vscsnn 22 elate of land that s ,coo=d: i~ you're gomng rc build en mu yes're ~31Ng rc cancer =n 23 you're 9es gemng mc sff cen~er 2r. Sc I think mc ieva!ues mr and what are you goln~ ~o 24 there? i know your restrictions 3n accessory buildings and ~parcmen~s and R i thd.~ SO 25 seems uc be ]ssu wasted seace. MR. FALLON: Because DS the hous~ December 18 2~a-~s 1 2 being built? HS. ROS~NBAUM: Right, all the wey 3 to the side, and new new houses on Neighbors right now, and they're going into the six te % $800,000 mark right now. Thet's what they're selling for. 5 CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Thank you. Mr. Herning, de you have any questions? 6 BOARD MEMBER HORNING: B©ttem line, what was the difference in the price 7 between the two parcels separate and combined? MR. FALLON: Bottom line wes as 8 separate you have $410,000 we have a contract of sale, and I actually have the buyer here, 9 who is paying the $%10,000 for the separate house if the unmerger application goes 10 through. And then, if you hod based on Kathy's testimony the $200,000, so it would be 11 a combined total ef $610,000 versus Kathy testified about $%80,000 because ef the odd 12 shape ef the let. Se you're talking economic hardship approximately $120,000, $130,000. 13 BOARD MEHBER HORNING: This potential buyer, has he toyed with the idea of 14 purchasing the whole thing? /~ MR. FALLON: I'd like to 15 int}~oduce, Paul. MR. SCNMIDT: Hi, I'm Paul 16 Schmidt. Hy fiancee and I are buying the property, Ellen Hart. !7 MR. FALLON: That's for $410,0007 MR. SCHHiDT: That's correct. 18 MR. FALLON: And do you have any opposition to this application te unmerge the 19 property as you would be directly to the south ef this? 20 MR. SCHMIDT: None whatsoever. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Thank you. 21 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Did that answer your question? 22 BOARD MEMBER HORNING: No. MR. FALLON: If I may, arguing for 23 the application, I knew that you denied an application a couple months age on the other 24 side of the street, and I've had a chance to review that decision, and there are 25 differences. In this case, there is a CO already issued back in '77, '78 en one let. December 18, 2003 ao 1 2 And actually if I hadn'T e~c~ed un the p_ob_em it's ~ossib±s this oulo nave beer 3 sol' and ~cne poe~ schic~ would have boucnr ~ map and had a bi~ problem. We lo have separaue 20. Phs location of the house Ls Ddd 5 here. The other application you n~d ~emeene 6 houses. ~e already have a house built here: we're lusE throwing one more possibly on ether side· g~ve ue everyone a marked Eax maes with yellow and $~nk w~n ~li the ~ax 8 bills annexed which shows ~!i the houses that hays been developed Dn SLats Rea{. Ii you 9 leo~ au that you will see that the malorL~y ef the lots are this side of a hali ~cre lot and 10 you'll see a lot of houses ~iready built these half acre pieces and then you i1 also 11 see I listed the Dw~ers a leu of 12 looked ah it on the easu side I think there was one merged let our from Hain Road all Ehe 13 way uu uo the eo~ where I had ?arkec EvervEnLnc else Ls bui!dable so uhe 14 ne~ohborheod ~ half acres, on The o~her side I belzeve hhere was Drily ~ coYele oi merged 15 le~. everything else was either built on :ness roughly half acre lots ss sLncle and ~eparaee 16 ownership. It would be unfertunaue rc 17 oe~alize the Stade~maNns because un~crruxstelv uhey gnu eld and they ~robabiy ~orgou why they 18 had done this Drigixa!ly. Ihey gev coed advzce Ln th~ beginning when they beugnn 19 separately, ~nd untorturatelv Fr Stadeimann in his mid 80s you knew he lied eniy slx e 20 eight months laeer. 2he ma]or iifferences beEween your ZBA decision nor vc "z ~r ~ ~%m~_g~ Dots 21 10 and 1! ~nd this Ls Ln tha~ ~eu said hey 22 ownership. ~ere uhere was slnqle ahd seearare ow~rshi~ for over 20 'ears as ~how~ by uhe 23 chain. In that was on 7he wesuern side of St~rs Read and ±E backed up uc a !eve!cpmenE 24 thau had acre lees. 2his dee~ no:. This 2nly 25 o~ner side. I talked ~o that centleman se hal no oroblem w~th th~s ~ppl~ca _o~. In hhe December 18 1 2 ether application you said there was Ne proof of geed faith intention to maintain the 3 property as separate lots_ Rere there was obviously for 20 years a good proof ~© % maintain it as separate. Per some reason, the people that applied in that other application 5 didn't offer any proof ef economic hardship. You've heard from Hs. Resenbaum, there's ever 6 $100,000 ef economic hardship. Environmental impacts, you've heard from my client, it's a 7 weeded let. There are no wetlands er environmental. It's really a different case 8 altogether, and if not for that lawyer's error back in the 1990s, I wouldn't be standing 9 here. It would have just gone through ena single and separate. I went through the Town 10 cede. You're mere aware ef these than I am. I don't believe there's an increase in the 11 density of the neighborhoedo The lot is consistent with the size ef the lots in the 12 neighborhood, the waiver will avoid economic hardship, and I don't see any major 13 envirenmentai impact. We're only having e~e house built here potentially, not the two in 14 the prier application. I mean, it's unfortunate that 15 the -- you know, the Stadelmanns intended, they worked hard, they lived out Nero, you 16 know, they intended te provide a legacy to their children. They had it set up single and 1I separately. It's unfortunate when they get older that for whatever season, they forgot 18 why they set it up and they didn't get geed advice~ i'm asking that the Board consider 19 all those reasons and granting the applicatioN. Thank you very much. 20 CHAIRWOHAN O~IVA: Thank you. Hr. GeehriNger. 21 ~OARD HEMBER GOE~RING~R: This is R40 zeno? 22 MR. FALLON: Yes, acre sorting. BOARD MEHBER GO~HRING~R: ~hank 23 you. CHAIRWOHAN OBIVA: Mrs. Tertera? 2~ SOARD MEH~ER TORTORA: Couple ef things te get the record straight. I'm net 25 sure t~at there was an error en behalf of the attorney. You're probably net aware of it, December 18, 2003 2 ou~ this subdivision which is R Sound Crash {~oods subdivision was sn the accepted list 3 untl! 1985 NOT e ~t_ ~ ~rti] ~99I there~cre ~hen The eroeer~-es were p,.~ z common ownershlp in 1996 1E was 3n nhe accepted list. 5 HR. FALCON: That s g}od. ~OARE ~EMBER TORTORA: The lots 5 were recognized So, the ranter lush run that by me again. HR. FALLEN: Is Fred Stade!marn. Fred was the father et John ~tade~mann. He } passed away Ln 1991, BOARS HEMBER TORUORA: After the 9 transfer? HR. FALLON: After Eno transfer 10 shortly thereafter_ P iOR~RA BOARE M~MBER ~ ~ Well 11 ~usu wanted Ee gem that very 2~ear for the record because this nas nee beeo merged 12 1990. it's only been merged s~nce 1997 As nc an error on the parc of she avEornsy~ when 13 th~ a~uorney, in fact ieeded th_~ 3u7 ~o the son and ~ne taugh~eu they wer~ vwo seeara~e 14 lots urder The code o! ~h~ Town cf Sout£oid. I 3usu wan~ ~o ge~ ~- ~ right ehe 15 HR_ FALLDN: I believe mhe anmerney also if he ~euld have made zE 5! ~_~ ~__ee~d there 16 percene ~d 48 ~ercenr had ~ ~ ~ wouidn'm have been anl~ merger ezmker I 17 believe znas s correct. ~HA~RWOMAN ~LIVA: N{~ Orianeol 18 BOARS MEMBER DRLANDO: No further queszions. 19 CHAiRWC~AN DLIVA: Ss nhere t~,a~ wouli Like -c anybody in ~ne audience ~ ~ 2.0 speak for Dr agaznsm ~nzs aeplicatien? MR. 2OCCI6: Yes. My name :s Tomy 21 Coccle. I live am 2190 Stars Road nexm ~c the 22 2HAiR~%iCHAN O3iVA: South or north? 23 MR. 20CCI0: North ef lm. ~nd one ef the things I wanted ne brine uL where 24 the a~Eorney mentioned mbo fact mcat mOST of the causes on Slars Reac are calf acre i lid 25 a rough counz th6 lEhes day ef %hem and mere than half si lhex are on ~ full. acre Bec e i8 2003 43 1 2 there is a question there. On the question ef the property, 3 the property is a weeded let. They called it flat, it is not flat. There is a deep 4 depression, which goes fram the high spat en the southwest corner, toward the ether corner 5 of the property, and it's - I would guess between eight and ten feet deep and it should 6 be looked at. I also don't believe that the 7 criteria, ether than the hardship, the criteria based on what the cede calls far a 8 waiver were met. Talks about net substantially changing the piece ef property. 9 In order te build en that let, which is a hundred percent treed, pristine and natural, 10 would mean taking down a majority of the trees and somehow dealing with that slope and that 11 hole. Also, whether the attorney made a 12 mistake or whether the Stadelmanns wanted to merge that property when they gave it to their 13 children, I don't know if that's a question. The q~estien is what is the criteria for 14 getting a waiver? And my question is the substantial change to that property, the 15 d%nszty in the area. During the summer -- and t~ese people are net there during the summer, 16 they're net even full-time residents. I live there full year 'round and I can see the 17 density change just in the twa years that i've been there. I purchased the property on the 18 other side ef me for that very reason, te keep a eno acre let without that density. And when 19 I purchased that house two years ago, we were aware of the fact that the property next deer 20 to us was merged and therefore assumed that it was net going to be built an. And new we find 21 out that they're leaking for a waiver to build en that property. And a half acre is not a 22 let ef property te put a substantial hame on. I assume also the Stadelmanns when they ~ ' 23 that the house is not on the center of the property, the reason probably was that they 24 saw at the time it would be nice to have a decent amount of wooded area to one side of 25 them, which is a very attractive piece of property. There are beautiful laurel in there December 18, 2003 2 and there ~re animals ~n there senstamt!y, and ~ I~e e~her p31xr was % lookinc- ~o uxmerge ,~ sc i~ can halt acre TN~ eeveleemen~ in ~he area nas 5 been dramatic the leNs~y has been irama~c in tNe last few years, lhe houses ~n ~eese~or 6 ~ the other end sf Stars Road which sro en half an ~cre have been thence long sefere this was zoned as one acre. Sc ~ think in ardor keep with thc s~a~u~e which i guess lk was 8 created ~o elim~nane ~ome of the ~ensity the ~rea should be upheie. 9 Aey a~orney's mistake shouldn' 1{ ha~pened~ tNat's what they're assuming if their parents Oecided you g}e ONe lot h~ ge~s 11 the sther let e~ we 2~ve ~h ~o you eooe~her. 12 that's the reasen~ There were two differene lots. ~gonldn'h senebody ask ~he question why 13 in was in ~wz different names? No Phey tecided ~o ~.~er~e _~ ln~c Dne s~ sPcuidn'n 14 s~ay that wayl Thank you. ?HAiRWOXAN DLkVA: Thank you very 15 much. Anybody 21se weul{{ like ~e cemmen~? 16 KS. GARLE: I'm Jan~ ~rie I live en Star~ Road ~e ~h~ sou~n el 17 Stadelmann s h}use. E wrerc s ie~rer eo ehe 1~ unmerger. ~nd I agree e~e everyrn~ng that Hr. 2ecc~e has lush said and I also would 19 like ~0 ~ay ~hat i sues~on the ioea ~nancial hardship. Be2aese and i wouldn'~ 2~ base any decisions sn what phc ~artlcu!ar real ~s~are agone has ~c say, ~nd ~ also find he prospective b~yer sf nn±s 21 very odd that ~ · house has ~bseiutely uethinc aga!nsn the 22 ~nmerger and presumably havinc ano~er house rloht nex~ rc bin. He's willing ~o ouy ~hls 2! house for 400 }00 and ~n my mind anyway, ~mnediately iestroy one ha~ 3f his prcper~y, 2~ the preper~y ~xan could ~ave been his. And oelieve that ~aybe ~nsener bhyer would come 2S ~lonc who would appreciate ~n~s e×~ra prLvacy, ~nd the beauty of ~ne surroundings. Sc i'm Decembe~ A8 2003 1 2 sorry, the Stadelmanns Nave been good neighbors of m~ne Fred and ~dith, and 3 unfortunately they're both gone. I have nothing against John and his sister, but I de 4 not see the necessity for doing this, and it is ! who have to continue te live here, and 5 Mr. Ceccio and the other -- there are other residents ef the street. Mr. Petas across the 6 street, his name was en the list of neighbors te be alerted, and I spoke with him about it. 7 Unfortunately he's disabled physically and he was net happy about this either. He's 8 immediately across the street from the subject property. Se, I hope that you will deny this 9 request. Thank you. CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Thank 10 you. Per the record, we do have another letter from Miss Nancy Swasanew as also 11 opposing the unmerger. Is there anybody else in the audience that wishes to speak? If not 12 I'd like te close the hearing and -- MR. FALLON: If I may, just that 13 the tax map that i submitted clearly shews what the size of the lots are; that's not in 14 question. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: May I have a 15 motion? BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: So moved. 16 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Second? BOARD MEMBER HORNiNG: Second. 17 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Ail in favor? (Whereupon, all Board Members 18 responded in favor.) 19 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Our next hearing is for Hr. Tzanopoules for Notice of 20 Disapproval concerning the location efa proposed addition and alterations at less than 21 35 feet for total side yard and with the let coverage in excess ef 20 percent of the total 22 let area in Homestead Way in Greenport. We need the green cards. 23 MR. CALIENDO: Yes. It's my understanding they were mailed te you. I de 24 have copies of them if need be, but they were put in the mail. 25 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. MR. CALIENDO: Raymond Caliende, December 18, 2003 1 2 C-A-L I-E-N D-O Art if Form A~chitec~s _ }~ou_o y like ne representing the eeelJcaxt. ~ ' ' 3 Fe p~eceed? ZHAIRWOKAN 31iVA: Yes g ~head? ~ MR. IALIENDO: The reason ~or ~ppearance is our proposed work follows the 5 addition of an open gazebo with connecting wood decks serv~n? ~s a wa~xway. 2he 6 combination ef hhe oazebo result in ~n ~diitional 20( sGuare feet approximately ~n lo~ coverage, which would pus~h the _au coverage ec 21 percenE ~xs~eed of hhe reou~red 8 20 percenE Also the open gazebo would enzreach en the side yard sehback ne BOARD MEMBER 3RLANDO: i m lumping 10 in since it's qumel here. The 2onsrruceieR underway now nas R kuiiding i1 MR. CA£-ENDO: Yes. it wss issued mn May. 12 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: And you've resubmitted a new bui-ding oermmr !or iR 13 ~dditien? HR. iALrENDO: TPe addinie'~ ~s for ~ ~h~ gazebo and the ~ks only because we reailz~ u.~at was going zo require ~ variance 15 so fhat's the applicat_oF. 2HAiRWOMAN 3LIVA: And a!sc for 16 hhe extended roof area 3var uhe resmdence? MR. CALIBNDO: Yes. Bkt That was - no~ recuired as e variance a~er our iiscussien with mhe Building Deear7menu. 18 suRyed within uhe ex!sumng feotprlnz -~ zhe hous~ we juse reconstructed the rcci wiuh a 19 higher pifch for uh~ aesuhe~ic value but was no~ par~ of uhe sarmance seelmca~ion. 20 BOARD MEMBER 3RLANDO: If I sar~ clear this up, mu nhrew m{ fee a looe ~hat 21 2onsmruc~lDn was underway, so Fha house has i~s Dwn huildin~ perml~ seearare o~ this 22 This ms 2omlng 3~f the exmse!ro wood deck an the back? 23 MR. CALiENDO: That's zerrecu. Maybe I can clarify somathixc. 24 BOARD MEKBER ORLANDO: ~'~ nc~ under 2ons~ruc~on? 25 HR. ~AL_.~N~O. Abso_un~ly no ~ s December 18 200~ 47 1 2 work on the main house, the house Droper, by doing the addition on the west side even 3 though we weren't increasing the footprint the construction was within the revised side yard 4 setback, and we were under the impression that that would also involve a variance. However, 5 when we questioned the Building Department on it, we were told that that would net 6 necessitate a variance, and we were issued the building permit accordingly for the work en 7 the main house in May of this year. When we submitted our plans for 8 this application, we determined that the only two variances would be for the side yard 9 setback and for the overall let coverage, and again, this only relates to the gazebo and the 10 decks. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mrs. Tortera. 11 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: And this is a 40,000 square foot lot? 12 MR. CALIENDO: Yes, excuse me, 20,000 square foot let. 13 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: i don't have any questions. 14 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I'!1 keep Ge on, George, jump in there. iS / BOARD HEMBER HORNING: Why did y©u -=ecate the gazebo where it is? 16 MR. CALIENDO: We studied a whole different gamut of design scenarios. The 17 gazebo based en the way they occupy the property and the way they use the pool, the 18 gazebo as you can see it kind of comes elf the existing wood deck, then goes to the side of 19 the pool. We tried all kinds of scenarios, on the ether side of the peel, closer te the 20 pool, and none of them worked. For practical reasons or reasons of safety, we didn't want 21 te bring the gazebo tee close te the pool. After many different scenarios we just arrived 22 at that conclusion. BOARD HEMBER ORLANDO: If you flip 23 this, you wouldn't be any closer te the pool than it is new? 24 MR. CALIENDO: That's correct. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: And you'd be 25 further away from the side yard? HR. CALIENDO: Yes. What it boils December 18, 2003 ~8 2 sown no afeer all the scenarios Phis was our 2!lents ereference in ,erms Df iocaElon. ~ BOARD MEKBER TORTORA: The Drily ccmmenu i have in imsYening re ms 2oileaghes ~ here ! think what i ? bearino and ! would agree with is you really don't need nc be here 5 for a variance CHAIRWOM3_N OLIVA: You don'u if ~ you fuse flip ~ ever BOARD MEKBER TORTORA: Dne Df the things we leek ah very shrongly ~s there an ainername way Ec do whaz you wane mc io ~ without a variance ~nd yon ve already submitted that nhere ~s really think the 9 ~ssue ~s kind of moou. HR CALIENDO: if you csns~der 10 from hhe polnn ef v~ew ef my client's preference that weule be Ehe 11 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Nc. MR. CAL!ENDO: Sc you're aay~ng it 12 would nee be appreve~. CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: That's 13 lorrecE. BCARD MEKSER HORNiNG: Non ii you 14 have m suitable iecaE~on nnd reo~ that you 2euld ds zE without e vsrnance and 15 essentially the same -~ and achieve nne same rnlno excepE for persoxal preference. 16 MR. CALIEXDO: Sc ~he Beard's preference would be nc -_mE the gazebs so the 17 oEner side? CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: That's 18 correcn. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: There's no 19 need for ~ variance. BOARD HEHBER ORLA_ND{ : New York 20 Stare cede one of them As minimal relief ~nd any alternative opmlon Rnd we canner say 21 there is ne other oom~cns for these peep_e BCARD MEMBER TORtONi: You niso 22 wane ne puE this ~hing 3.6 feet 2rem m properey llne six -nones from a properYy 23 line. There's no neeo 2er that. BOARD HRMBER HCRNING: You 2culo 24 incorporate ~ rlght ~nrc the ex~s~n~ lock. HR CALiENDO: That s desei~e the 25 fact hhat ~he properny owner nas nc oblectiens? December 18 2C03 2 BOARD MEHBER TORTORA: That's the owner today and three feet, the minute you 3 place any structure three feet from the property, you're restricting their privacy, 4 and you're restricting their ability and the future owner's ability, and in a case like 5 this, there's no reason to de that. You can enjoy the benefit ef what you want to do 6 without e variance. MR. CALIENDO: That's despite the 7 fact in question it's an open structure. It's net habitable space. 8 BOARD MEHBER HORNING: What is the elevation? 9 MR. CALIENDO: About two and a half feet. 10 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: You still need a variance from us for lot coverage, 11 correct? MR. CALIENDO: That was my next 12 question. If I bring it to the other side, I still have the issue of coverage, it's 200 13 square feet in question differential. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: i wouldn't 14 have a problem with that. BOARD MEMBER ~ORTORA: The lot 15 coverage is no problem with me but as far as the variance, no. 16 MR. CALIENDO: Okay, so CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA~ As you can see 17 we're mostly in agreement up here. MR. CALiENDO: I guess i'm running 18 out of arguments here. Se the issue is I would have te revise the drawing, resubmit 19 with the understanding that if in principal you have no objection te the lot occupancy 20 issue -- BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: You don't 21 have te revise it for us because I think as you heard, the Beard is not going to veto 22 favorably for the variance. MR. CALIEND0: We still have a 23 variance for lot coverage. BOARD MEMBER TORTOP~A: As far as 24 the let coverage in issue, yes. The size of the structure is not going te change, that's 25 not going to affect whether you submit it through new plans or not unless you're going December 18, 2003 5C 2 re make 1~ larger? ~R CA~i~NDO: No. ~ BOARD KEHBER TCRTORA: Seed. ~he~ we'll still se ar ~ne same lo~ soverase ~n a ~ dif£erent location. SR. CA~IENDO: Sc i'm sorry, nPs 5 procedure, you re saying I dc no~ need no come back for another hearino au this point? 6 CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: No. HR. CALiENDO: Sc I'ii resubm~n drawings iirectly Bo the Building Depar~men~ that would show the ~rruceure ~x ~he o~ner 8 side with the 200 s~uar~ fee~ ~ncrease ~n ioe coverage ~Nd that would be permissible ~e the 9 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: With a copy 10 us. HR. CAL!ENDO- Copy you. skay. 11 Thank yDU very much CHAIRWOM~I OLiVA: R~gNt. Hake a 12 motion me close the hearing. I'm sorry always for~et somebody e!s~ might nave 13 something ro sav. ~R. 2ETCHERONB: x~ now ~re you 14 Ehls mornina. Fy name is Joe Tebcherone. I'm here Dn behalf of my w~fe axe I Virginia. 15 And we own Ehe properEy Eo the ease ef the Tzanopeu!os home. ThaNk God you agreeo ~n 16 mevlnc that gazebo because that's waI roc close Ec my fence which is rn. ght there and 17 we kind of smay ~n enr backyard r~qhb where our gazebc would be And we lon'~ understaxd 18 my wife and i pullee u~ ~n front sf vke hcuse last week and all of a sudden you s~e ~ii 19 this sensvreczLen gomng ~n ani i assumed that they needed a variance mc de any cyme of work. 20 Yes said zv already that the construction already svarEed, ion u understand how they 21 already gdt building ecrm!Es. BOAR£ HEKBER ORLANEZ : Ve kad 22 answered that suesElom. MR. FETCHERONE: Fhere was Rnd 23 they iidn't need a variance ~o do CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: ~hecked this 24 ~orn~ng with the Building DeDarvmen~ because had the same quesn~on you did and eeey dc 25 have the buildino perm!c nc de Fhan. MR. TETCHERONE: it =oo~s like Deceu:b=r 18 2003 51 1 2 apartment building actually. CHAIRWOMAN OL!VA: Everybod~ has 3 their own tastes. MR. TE~CHERONE: I think if they ~ want that magnitude, trey should have gore to the south fork, down oR Dune Road 'cause 5 that's where they're building all that. I mean I came out here to Southold, t© Greenport 6 to have a beautiful home, nice area and all of a sudden I see this big thing coming up next ? door to me. I'm like, it's a little too close fur comfort. 8 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Seuthold Town has parameters with cede, they can build 9 whatever they like. HR. TETCHERONE: I understand. I 10 just found that out this past week. BOARD MEMBER HORNING: Sir, one 11 question for you. What's the distance from your property line te your edge ef your house? 12 HR. TETCHERONE: My property, en that side maybe 15, 17 feet. 13 BOARD MEMBER HORN!NG: Okay. Se this gazebo if it was there would be within 20 14 feet ef the side of your house? BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I thought 15 were the neighbor that didn't mind this or is there another neighbor that didn't mind 16 this? HR. TETCHERONE: The ether 17 neighbor te the west is family of theirs. I don't see why they didn't want to put the 18 gazebo en that side anyway so they co~:ld beth share it. 19 MR. CAL!ENDO: ! didn't realize that there was an objection. 20 MR. TETCHERONE: I got this in the mail last week, and when I came out te my 21 house this past weekend I saw construction, I thought the whole variance was all part of 22 these plans, and then · came to the Town Hall I believe it was Monday early morning to get 23 that clarified about the building permits that were already issued without a variance because 24 it was em the cede. CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: As I said, i 25 just had a conversation with the Building Department. December 18, 2003 52 2 KR. TE_CH~RON~ 30 you need kc tell me tko other pa~n of this ~Iouse an -h 3 wes~ siie tha~ ~hey re ~xt~,~_. s~$~ u~ they d3n'~ Need a variance -~,~ id 4 CHAIRWOK~N OLiVA: HR. TE u~EReNs Ever though 5 they're prepes!ug ~o ~e 16 Dr SC feet fram their preperuy lins en that side that s okay? 6 _ mean, the whole per:mezer of e~aE new they den'e have ~h~ foeuage but I can see proposed overlay, after they te that overlay 8 that s gozng uc he okay? 2HA!RWOMAN DLIVA: The way ~t was 9 explained this morn:nc that zs exzsElnc they're ]usu redoing that parz of the heuse- 10 am _ cDrrect? MR. iALIENDO: T_~t s correcu. 11 BOARE MEKBER TOR~ORA: Did you talk ~c the Building DeparzmenE en this? 12 2HAIRWOFIA~N DLIVA Yes I talked ~o Daemon Ehis ~orn-ng. 13 MR. 2ALIEND0: I ca~ clarify 3n the wesu sids The pr~uary addition Ls PI 14 ease side Df the house. The wes~ side was an exis£1ng roof. When pon look sE the overall 1~ house the roof ditch zqe ex=~-ln,~ a roe~ ended ue be:no very flat and low zn relation. We 16 ]usu raised the roof up uc gan a higher profile. 17 MR. TEPCHERCNE: it says rzghu 1~ hatched with overhaxg dashed. Sc their }verhaxg_~tg furthermore. 19 MR. _AL_~NDO: That's neu Erue_ HR. I~_CH~RON~: Am. ! no[ ~ee:ng 2[ r~aht? MR. ~ALIENo~: We're nde creauinc 21 ~ny additional floor ~rea_ You're talking %bout ~verhanc vo~] mus~ be fa-kine %bo~i~ nhe 22 eves. MR. TETCHBRONE ~{nat toes ~ ~ay 23 here? It says hatzhed w~h overhang lashed. Aren · they_~xtendin. _g the whole 24 house? 'Cause uhey did ~ DR zhe sasn si~e so I m assumz~g they're gozng zc :on~-~nue that 2~ whole line. HR. 2AL!ENDO: ton'~ know LeceRoer 18 2003 53 1 2 whether he's leaking at one ef my plans er not. 3 MR. TE~HER~NE. The new circular driveway they're putting in also; i hope you 4 like that one. It doesn't say roof overhang, it says hatched. 5 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: We have a further question also for you, sir. The 6 Notice of Disapproval says total side yard setback ef less than 35 feet. The existing 7 footprint does not have a side yard of 35 feet. 8 MR. CALIENDO: Again, when I spoke to Mr. Daemon I think the judgement was - 9 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Even se, we have had many variances for the same thing. 10 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Our authority in this case -- let's start in the 11 beginning -- is appellate only. That's the only reason we're here. You are taking an 12 appeal ef the Building Department's determination. What we have in front of us is 13 the Building Department's determination that therefore the proposed construction is net 14 permitted pursuant to blah, blah, blah, which states that nonconforming parcels between 20 //' 15 and 39,000 square feet require a minimum side yard setback of 35 feet, and this is why 16 you're here, and a maximum lot coverage of 20 percent. 17 HR. CALIENDO: If you read the reason why we're here, which is in your Notice 18 of Disapproval, this refers specifically to the gazebo setback issue, they're decreasing 19 that to 3 and a half feet or so. BOARD MEMBER HORNING: We can't 20 tell that. MR. CALIENDO: I understand. 21 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: The building permit was issued in May. 22 BOARD HEMBER TORTORA: This is also amended September 29th from the Building 23 Department. It says te construct additions and alterations to an existing single family 24 dwelling. A gazebo is not an addition or an alteration. This is a separate structure in 25 this case. I'm only saying this because we'd hate to give you a permit for lot coverage and December 18, 2003 1 2 have you have zc go back mc the Building Deparmment end say gee we ~lir _ cover ~ every~Ning. iHAiRWO~AN iIlVA: ?ou!3 we a adleurn this ~o uh~s afternoon and g_ re the Build{no Departmenz and ask Daemon ~f he would 5 2eme and exelain this te us? If you can caLch him now bring him bac~_ Because i asked hmm 6 the same ~uestmen this merP!ng, ~no he blew me off. MR. CALIEND0~ You want me ~c nry and see Mr Daemon ~nd -- 8 CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: And have explain it mo us. 9 HR. CALIENEO: What are you going me ia. run throuch this whole 10 BOARE MEMBER ORLANEO: k~s. We'll pum you on for !1 CHAIRWDMA~ OLIVA: If Daemon's there now. 12 BOAR~ MEMBER ORLANDO : You san do the llrSt one Df ~%e afternoon which ~s 1:00 13 p .m. MR. 2ALIEND{ : Dka~ I' i_ ~f !4 find him new. CHAIRWOMAN DLiVA: Make R mo¥~on 15 rc adlourn this hearino until -:06 this afternoon. 16 BOARi KEKBE~ HORNiNS: Second. 2HAIRWOMAN DLiVA: All ~n favor? i7 Nhereupcn ami Board Members responded ~n favor. 18 2HAiRWOMAN 3LIVA: Sc moved. 19 2HAIRWOHAX DL!VA Next hearing ms Jeselsohn and D~Bo~s on Ba, Avenue 2( lreeneort The Application Xumoer ~s 5448 for a new iwelling less than 35 feet from uhe 21 frgnm line and less than 35 feet frDm tNe rear lot line Bay Avenue ~n Greenporn. 22 HR. SAP[UELS: H~ my name ~s Tom Samuels 2! 2NAIRWOHAN 3LIVA: To~ there was no postzng. 24 MR. SAMUELS: Two s~ns were puE there It's been exmreme y w~ndy. Are you 25 ~ure you looked on bomb s~Oes? 2HAiRWOHAN ILIVA: looked on Decemker 18 2003 55 1 2 three sides. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I was tNere 3 Tuesday I couldn't find it en Tuesday as well. MR. SAMUELS: Is that right? % CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: I'm sorry~ Yo~ have tNe green cards? Thank yeu. Ge ahead. 5 HR. SAMUELS: Hasically, I'm here to answer questions, but first let me say that 6 yeu did find it? CHAIRWOMAN OBIVA: Oh, we finally 7 did find it. Yeu know there's so many little reads dawn there. A let ef them have three 8 sides, and I did see a mail box with 55 en it. MR. SAMUELS: It's a triangular 9 parcel with all front yards. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: It's a white 10 heuse. MR. SAMUELS: Light blue sNutters. 11 I put a sign on beth sides. It's been crazy with the wind, but that's ne excuse. We'll do 12 what we have to do. Maybe I can at least ge threugh the case in any event, yeu can decide 13 what you want to do. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Right. 14 NR. SAMUELS: It didn't start out /~ as a second flour additien preject, but 15 / because the entire heuse is within the fleod ~. plain, we realized soon that even lifting it 16 te the fleed plain elevatien would increase the nonconfermity. When tNat became evident, 17 I think my clients, Messers Jeselsohn and DuHeis, then it made sense te censider a 18 larger project and de a second flour. The foundation is almost non existent anO so we 19 weuid have to effectively recenstruct the house in any case and we'd need a variance. 20 We're leoking te de this recenstruction with a secend fleer completely 21 within the existing feetprint, which is existing nonconferming~ We've tried te de it 22 in a way which is respectful ef the neighberNoed, wieh a hipped roof that would be 23 a little lewer and less impesing than same ether things might be. 24 BOARD MEMBER TORTO~A: How high is the roef geing te be, Tam? 25 MR. SAMUELS: Actual dimension? CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: It's very December i8, 2003 1 2 m~xed iown there_ HR. ~_~.EIS: LS sery m~xeO 2 lown there. Lydia ton't have s scale 3n - ~ feet. Like i say we've tried ~o keeN i~ rha~ way in fact ~n this ~nseance we were ~ working with proposed ~ ~ ' ~ ~_~ g~t llm~ha~ons for small lots. which didn'~ gz in[o effect 5 BOARD HEHBER TORTORA: You seem Eo have done it very nicely· HR. SAMUELS: it's a shoe horn situation but because there's public water B there ir can happen· BOARD HEMBER TORTORA: I have nc 9 oblecuions, it looks very geco ~o me. BOARD MEMBER ORLAND{ : The 10 majer±ty Df the houses that I saw on the 11 MR. SAMUELS RiGNn. We ilo the one en the bay side. 12 CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: OP the bay side there 13 HR. SAMUELS: Mr. Prlne I believe ~s also buildixg a house on ~he hay 14 side He senu mn a l~tter which I ll21uoe~ in that nocether with r.czs D~ nenlurisdlcEmon o! 15 supporn nc the ZBA ~nd we have ~he '2rusfees permmu approveG b,st I don'~ kava a pnyszc~z 16 copy }f ~ you. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA:~ you have sc 17 razse the house an all for FEX~7 MR. SAMUELS: Zes we mo. It's 18 eight foot somethinc now and believe ~ Ir 19 nc th~ easu. Fhat alone raaszrg the house mn 20 whmch was my pomnn. Almost anynhan? we dc in order nc gee him our of the flood miazn Sc 21 a~ that pemnu we decided we mzght as well dc nhe prelect !~ s a ncny liNt'e house 22 connage. They wanted a proper three bedroom house· 21 CHAiRWOYSkN OL!VA: Hew many sGuare feet wmil the bouse be2 24 MR. SAMUELS: I den r believe oon'n ~now that it's less nhan 2 }00 scuare 25 feet. ~__AIRNIMAN DLIVA Greaf. De ~emDer 18 2003 57 1 2 MR. SAMUELS: But I'm sorry, I don't know. 3 80ARD MEMBER G©EHRiNGER: Could yee send us that information, Tom, please 4 because I have to write the decision. CHAIRWOM.NN OLIVA: The height is 5 going te be 24 feet, Jerry, and he has te raise it eight foot and what are they in? 6 BOARD ME~BBR ORLANDO: Flood plain. 7 MR~ SAMUELS: 10. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: With the 8 extension BOARD MEMBER HORNING: Sir, could ~ you tell us then, after the demolition, what will be left iN terms ef foundation? 10 HR. SAMUELS: Nothing. There is effectively no foundation. 11 BOARD MEHBER HORNING: There will be nothing there. 12 CHAIRWOMAN O~IVA: Slab? HR. 8AHU~LS: We need a footing 13 and there is no footing. CHAIRWOHAN OLiVA: It's a 14 velocity zeno? HR. SAMUELS: Ne, net a velocity/ 15 zeno. We need flew through vents and there's/ ne basement, obviously. 16 BO}ID MEMBER HORNING: Crawl space area? 17 MR. SAMUELS: You could call ~t that. I don't think the Building Department 18 even refers te it that way, and you're net allowed te do a slab down there. 19 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: This is a new place in kind? 20 MR. SAMUELS: Nith a seceni floor. BOARD MB~BER GOEHRiNGBR: This may 21 have come up and again I apologize for net being here. Is there any reason why it isn't 22 centered mere on the property? HR. SAMUELS: This is the existing 23 footprint. We ceuid have done that, but we just stuck exactly within that footprint, in 24 fact~ it's a little tiny smaller on ali sides, also the sanitary syscom is very tricky in 25 that site, and I don't act~aiiy have that final approval from the Health Department, but December 18, 2003 58 2 we expecE mt- it conforms because cf the public water. Se actually movanc im mf -v did 3 conform on _h~ back side ~p~ ~s rouqx. I'd ranter leave ±u where in is. 4 BOARD M~M~R GOEHRiNGER: Nny bufferinc betwcen there and lhaE sex and a 5 half feet between that axd nhe ~mde yard2 KR. S~MUELS: Whateves we nan fit 6 in there it's mmght ~nd you wasm ~o Nave access mc the house so mna~ ~ou can mamntaxn mm. There's an exms~ing stockade fence between mhe neiohber which ms ~he preperuy of 8 the ~emghber- we can't really fit much mn there. It s nm~ht. I believe the ne~ hbor s ~ going ~o be ~n seen ~ might add February somethin~ i0 BOARD M~M~R GOEHRiNSER: What's going ~e be }u~ et ~he ~round how much ou~ of 11 the ~reund itself mn re2ereNce re ~hepm .... '~gs.~ MR. SAMUELS~ Nc paimngs masonry 12 foundahlo~ no breakaway. BOARE MEMBER iOEHR!NGER: i know 13 you said nc velocity HR. SYXUELS: Nc :~c breakaway ~ 14 wall. We're actually br!hnlno ix = ~!~_e bit of fill in the sanmzary sysrer. So fhere will 15 be very ~m~tie ouu of the ground on ~hat. The ~lRlmum em~ht inches on the 3asi side where 16 that s six feet border there's really ne room for fill mnere. So ms will the £kow 17 through venus will be on fhaf north smde that little smx feet. 18 BOAR2 _.EHB~R GOEx~ING~R: I'm nor ~o~ng uo see ~uch founda~aon? 19 HR. SAMUELS: No. 'Ca'ese in' s agamnsr we're ury-ng uc fill wherP we can_ 26 You will see some foundatmon because we fion't waem mc drain away uFreasonabiy an~o nhe road 21 and we Nave very little ec wer~ witN physmcal smte these and. of course ~n vnii n!! be 22 contained hy {fy wells but ~'~ there msn't a leu s~ room los fill 21 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRiNSER: Do you have an oblecmmon eq th~ Boaro reservmng the 24 rmght -- assuming the Boaras agrees re th~s ne revmew any possibly buffering aY =ii 2~ MR. SAMI~b: Buff?~lno' s fire. Phey wanv prmvac!- eeo uhey nave very little Decembe~ 18 2032 59 i 2 there. It's a triangle, they're right up against the read en all sides. If we could 3 fit beffering in, I'm net sure what wee!d fit chore if you're talking plant material. ~ BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Maybe arborvitae. 5 HR. SAMUELS: That's not a view side, as long as it physically fits and can 6 they can still get te the house. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: From a 7 cylindrical point of view there, they don't really grow out until they get very eld, and 8 they're easy te remove, if you have to. HR. SAMUELS: I don't think Mr. 9 Jeselsehn would have any objection te that. BOARD MEMBER GOE~RINGER: Any 10 objection te that? MR. JESELSOHN: No. 11 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Is there anybody else in the audience that wishes to 12 speak for er against this application? May I have a motion te close en the hearing and 13 reserve decision? BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Se 14 moved. ,/ BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Second. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Ail in favor? { (Whereupon, all Board Members 16 responded in favor.) CHAIRWOM~N OLIVA: Se moved. 17 ...................... CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Our next 18 hearing is for Phil and Nancy Redilosse, Application Number 5443, for Notice of 19 Disapproval for proposed alterations and new addition at less than ten feet. Yes, sir_ 20 MR. RODILOSSO: My name is Phil Rodilosso, and I'm here te represent my wife 21 and myself and Peter Staffberg our contractor is here as well. We have been on the north 22 fork for about 25 years as homeowners, starting in Mattituck, moving te Cutchogue and 23 then Southold, and new we're back in Mattituck, which is closer te my wife's 24 family. She herself has been coming out here since she was born. Her grandparents lived in 25 Mattituck since 1933. So I guess we view ourselves as long term residents and totally December 18, 2003 ~n]oy the north fork 3f Lens Island. We nurshased a sma-i home on S~csbee Road last summer aPd havlno been used 4 !ondc mn Seutho!d and we felt we really needed Ec add a mascot bedroom s~Ire zo what ~ was essentially a coEEage built '~ i942 and then added sn mc about 20 years a~o. But 5 was still quz~e small- it was aoou~ 1 600 1.700 souare feet The existing home zs very close our preDerEy line no the south and we wanted ~ re extend the house ~bou~ 24 feeE ~c the rear and the house ~s en ~ ~light ancle, which 9 would actually proErude a ~tle bit~ios~_-' about a foot ~loser ~o zhe properny ~ne ekan 10 the ex~u~nc home ~s. I guess hhat s really the ~ssue that uae ~ ~ Al essentially nonconform~n~ us Yhe 2urren7 codes, and we wane Ec exeend the home back ~2 anoEher 24 feet ~o provide ~ proeer masEer bedroom su~ne ~n the home ~n6 tha~ s lu. And 12 we're here us enswer your oues¥iONS. BOAR£ }{EMBER }OEHRiNGER: CaN I 14 mike a public s~amen tnt? 15 BOARD/XE~BER iOEHRINGER: i kn9w for a fact that %xe Pedersens who owned the i6 house and grew ue on S~gsbee Road. I presently awn Dne house om Szgsbee Read 17 2290. i know 2elicR=a~or~ ~ ~ so_d -~= house sc you. and I know there s some involvemexn i~ witN Pedersone are friends of m~e I have a license w~th PedersDne shich ~s now 1~ Prudential. Does the Boare have any ebjech~en 20 2HAIRWOMAN DLiVA: Yes. BOARE MEMBER ~OmnR~NGmR: ~o then 21 I will ncE voice anv spznlon. MR RODiLOSSO: Okay. 22 2HAiRWOHAN 3L!VA~ Hrs. Tortora? BOARE KEH~ER TORTORA: The only 23 hhinc that I see ~s you hand irew 3n survey the 24 bv 2~ addition ~nd the ~nly 24 rhino E'm i little 20ncerned abcu? here ~s that if you loo~ ~E one anode Df zke house 25 ~OARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Two s~de yards? Decembes 18 2001 61 1 2 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: te Sigsbee Read, the front of the house narrows 3 to the back; in ether words, it's -- that's what I'm very concerned about. 4 MR. RODILOSSO: It's not plum to the property line. 5 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Exactly what I'm concerned about is that rear yard 6 side where it may be 5'2'~. MR. RODILOSSO: We knew where you 7 are, right. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Where it's 8 5 feet 2 inches where you're going te begin the addition, when you extend that 24 - 9 MR. RODILOSSO: We were thiRking aesthetically te continue the house line 10 straight rather than have some -- BOARD MEHBER ORLANDO: Because 11 they're not parallel_ BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I know. 12 But the way the angle is here -- HR. RODILOSSO: Right. It would 13 actually be closer. Peter, you have an estimate of hew close? 14 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: We can't estimate because we're going te put our 15 decision in the number if you're wrong and go for a final. 16 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: This is at an angle here. This is S-2 here when we come 17 back here this could be 4 2; this could be 3-2. What do you think, Peter? 18 MR. STAFFBERG: I think closer to the 4-2. Because ! believe the distance on 19 the existing, I believe it drops a foot on tNe survey -- and I'll check my survey here in 20 addition te the existing house, and that's approximately 24, 2S foot deep. 21 HR. RODILOSSO: Se it's like 6 2 in the front, 5-2 in the back. 22 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: The survey, the actual survey mark at the rear of the 23 house is 5-2 at the corner. If we extend 24 feet in the same direction, our problem is 24 very simple: How are we going to determine what that setback will be en that property 25 line? MR. RODILOSSO: I guess your December 18, 2003 62 1 2 computer calculated that. 80ARE MENSER ORLANDC We have ~ a~ether s~rvey that snowed 5 BOARE F~FB~R HORN_Nv. ~hat is ~he 4 possibility sf znserE~ng the ~ddition you were talking abouE mry~ng m{ make a s~ral~hr 5 mine obviously, if you leek from the road side iowa and it was znseE some you'd never 6 see that line. MR. ROD!LOSSO: Yemr 2e[leaoue who · e familiar with the whole nome will understand that the roof lines sn tNLs house 8 are very unusual. I mean we were faced a choice when we bought a~ of going u~ Dr 9 changzng everything sempietely, but we decided a one sEory ~dditlon would make ~.eore ~ense 10 from the ~OlnE of view of what's ~n the area and you knew from bur OWX use of the nome 11 and you know I lusm think aes~bet~ca±iy having one line rather than a z~g-zag 12 arrangemenk makes a little mere sense. Pezer 13 BOAR~ MEMBER HORNING: If that was setbsck in ano~eer fou~ zo five~e_~^ ~ ~om Rte ~4 ex!sz~ng house i~ne you're say~ng that would make a Eozsi unworkable ~oef 2mne !5 s~rua£~on here? MR. STAFFBERG: if you were gomng 16 Ec exEend the rooz line that ~x~srs back we would be break~n~ ute too~ line so yod d ~? s~ar~ another ne and sor~ Df have llke ~wo houses lined u~ ~ 2ouid ge~ ~ou una~ number 18 and I'm asking ~he survey on ~he ~e~eu~er. BOARE MEMBER TORTCRA: Peter ~8 here - BOARE KEHBER {RLANDO: We actually 20 have a new survey September 3i '0~ ind they actually logged the adeition zver ~c keep 21 parallel. BOARR MEKBER TORTORA: See wha% 22 they lid7 They breuokt this ~n an % 23 MR. STAFFBERG~ ~ney Rctua!iy made this euE a square 2% BOARi MEMBER }RLANDO: So throw the levels and squares cue for hh~s. z~ CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mad~ back here. December 28 2003 63 1 2 BOARD HEMMER ORLANDO: That's the one they're looking at? 3 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Exactly. MR. STAFFBERG: How can I said 4 correct that? BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: ! don't 5 know, you tell me. MR. STAFPBERG: I can ask them 6 what this measurement would be if we kept this line straight. I can give you an exact 7 number, whatever that will be, 4-8 or 4-7, a~d then I'll get you a corrected survey, and I'll 8 get that back te you today te give you a number from them with a stamp. 9 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: It's not going te matter. We could close the hearing 10 pending receipt of the actual dimension setback that you're requesting. 11 MR. STAFEBERG: Okay. BOARD MEHBEN TORTORA: The survey 12 with the actual setbacks are because that's what we're all looking for really. 13 Peter. A number to put there. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Yes. 14 HR. STAFFBERG: Then thereafter ~ I'll get your straight addition. 15 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Otherwise yeu'li have a crooked house. 16 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Also for the record, it leeks like this is two lots at 17 eno time. It is merged. It is eno lot. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRiNGER: Let me 18 comment since I can't vote en this, to help my fellow neighbor, but you know who I am. 19 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: State your name ~o~ the record. 20 MR. GOEHRINGER: It's the first time I've ever dena this in 24 years. I have 21 to tell you that the house was built by the Petrukises in 1942. They owned Bungalow Bar 22 Ice Cream, and they retained ownership of that house, and I don't know if there was a breach 23 in between there and the Pedersons in that period of time. It is an extremely unique 24 premises, there's no doubt about it. Just to answer your question, the property was bought 25 next deer by the Pedersens te my knowledge, and then it was split te add more property te December 18, 2003 2 the Pederson i~L and then they sold off the lot on ~%9 cornor aha khst s how rna prop~r~y HR. RODILSSSO: Becsuse they did 4 the addition about 20 25 years age. MR. IOEHRINSER: 5 the house standing mn front mc the left they did a magnificent iok addinc them additiol 6 and coneeurmng those very difficule roof lines that you alluded mc and Peter alluded ac. because they are very dl!ferent. BOARi MEHBER DRLANDO: To ~nswer 8 your question they re sne io~ yo~'re nok gomng UC do ~ waiver of meroe? 9 HR. RODiLOSSO: Nc waiver ef me~ce here. We heard that earlier 10 BOARh MEMBER ORLANDO: it's si ehe record now. 11 CHAIRWOMAN DLiVA I have ~ mo~len mc 2lose the hearing and reserve iecismon 12 pending new ~urvey with the actual setbacks zer the ada~ ~on. 13 BOARE MEMBER DRLAND~ ! 11 make that moulen. 14 80ARE .±KBER =~R_~RA Second 3HAIP{P~OKAN DLIVA Ail ~n favor? 15 Wh',~reune? all Board Members resmonded in fa,~er. 16 2HAiRWOKAN DLIVA Sc moved. 17 iHA!RWOKAN DLIVA: }ur last Dna. Darby Moore 5467 }e Dak Road ~ New Suffolk. l& You jus~ wans mo Due undersuand? 19 BOARE MEMBER ORLANDO: And on Tom_ 2{ MR. SAMUELS: I'd have ~c clarify ~his as ~ m~nor application. It s a 21 an exms~inc house that will maks useable an existin~ second f~oo~ which ts currently 22 aEemc. And zr s a~l 2x~mrely within mhe 21 house on the Rathwel~ Road ~mae is nor wm~in the allewabie ~etbacks. ~.~refer~ uhe dormer 2a itself ~s nos within the e!lowab!s setbacks. Approximately lO0 square feet ms all that's 25 projecrmrg that root. We re nos zncrcastnc the height ef EnaE reef. We rs nee iemno ~cember 18 2003 65 2 anything else that in any other way I can imagine has an impact on the neighborhood. I 3 don't even think that the dormer itself does, but it does allow us te use that attic space. % CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mrs. Tortora, do you have any questions? 5 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: No questions. 6 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I have one question since I'm writing this one. The 7 dimensions I'm speculating en the south side ef the dormer, what is it recessed in en the 8 existing footprint approximately? Is the proposed dormer within the size ef the 9 footprint? MR. SAHUELS: It's behind the 10 existing perch, which is about six feet wide, se the face ef that dormer that's encroaching 11 would be about six feet in from the existing front of the porch, which itself is actually 12 recessed fram the face ef the gable facing the creek another feet er two. So I'd say, you 13 knew, it's going to be with the 40 foot setback there, we're prebabiy something like 14 36 feet to the face of that dormer. I can find out exactly. 15 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: But / recessed in fram the original footprint? 16 MR. SAMUELS: Fram the original footprint, it's actually six-plus actually 17 another feet fram the side, make it seven feet. By the way, there's an existing 18 building permit there. Nothing's been dena en the site. But the Building Department was 19 nice enough te give a permit for a screened-in perch en the north side, at which paint the 20 application was split because of this dormer. Se Daemon in his wisdom decided t© give us the 21 permit far the screened perch, but nothing will happen until we resolve this because they 22 want te de it all at eno time. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Homing? 23 BOARD MEMBER HORNING: No questions. 24 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Geehringer? 25 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: How is it going te affect the reef height as it December 18, 2003 66 1 2 presently exists? MR. SAMUELS: Nothing. i~'s a ~ shed ~ormer CexlNg ozf fro~ Yn~ main rzdge. It has ne effect on ~ne reel h~z~q~. ~ CHAiRWOHAN OLiVA: was dowP there yesterday, and I didn'T see a proDier ~ with lt. There was a ~rea~ lake ~n front Df the house though. 6 HR~ S~UELS: Rathwell Road and non ne nennzon New Suffolk Road · had cc ce back around the other nzchn. CHAIRWOMAN eL!VA: I ion'E have 8 any further ouesnioNso Kake a monlon no close the hearing and reserve iecisien. 9 BCARD MBMBER HORNING: Second BOARD KEHBER ORLANDO: Sc moved 10 CHAiRWOH~kN OZ!VA: Ail in zavor? Whereupon. all Board Members 11 responded zn favor. CHAiRWOY3~ OLIVA: So moved. CHA!RWOND_N O%IVA: First I need a 12 resolution re canoe- the hearinc oi 3mnzpozF~ 2ommunlcatlon b~cause iR has lloveo. 14 BOARD HEFBER HORNiNG: Sc move~. BOARD HEKBER GOBHRiNGER ~ezond. 1~ CHAIRWOMAN }LIVA: Ail in laver? Whereupon. al_ Board Members 16 responded iP favor. 2HAIRWOKR~N }LIVR: Sc moved 2HAIRWOKD_X OLiVA: Put nexz i~ application zs Susan and Jeseeh Ulrich Number 5%60 an Mill lree~ Drzve. Weul6 you some ~c 19 the mike? MRo ULRICH: Hz my name zs Phil 2C Ulrich. I'm the son of Dorothy and doseph Ulrich and nhis zs my snery, Susan. 21 2HAIRWOHAK DLiVA: What would you l~ke ~c Jo- wo~]d you roil ~s? 22 HR. U~RICH: We ezooose co creaze a iormer in the exlsE~nc home eo ~he secone 23 fleer which would ~do a modest ameux~ of zmprevemenn in terms p~ living space no what 24 ~s currently an auuzc. 2HAIRWOMAN iLiVA: 8o that would 25 extend your rear proeer~y ilne vnen i~ woulo be lus¥ 40 teat? December iS 2{ }! 61 1 2 MR. ULRICH: Ne. The current property line would net be altered at all. 3 other words, the footprint of the honse would be entirely unchanged and this dormer is a 4 second fleer. The builders refer to it as a reverse gable dormer. 5 BOARD HEHBER ORLANDO: It's actually recessed er two from the side view of 6 the drawing? MR. ULRICH: Ne. I wouldn't say 7 that. I have a drawing with me. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: From 8 looking at a side view ef this. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRiNGER: You're 9 looking at it with the overhang. So what the applicant is saying is that it's really on top 10 of the first story and the overhang protrudes past it? 11 MR. ULRICH: That's correct. In ether words, the drawings that I'm aware of, 12 it shews an extension of two feet eight and-a half inches, but, again, this is en the 13 second floor, the footprint ef the home is unchanged. 14 BOARD MEHBER ORhANDO: I agree it doesn't ge beyond. I just thought it was 15 recessed actually. MS. KOWALSKI: It's not 50 feet 16 from the rear. CHAIRWOFLAN OLIVA: It's not 50 17 feet. It would be 40 feet, your Notice of Disapproval. 18 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Let's look at the survey. 19 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: it doesn't give a distance on that side. 20 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I don't know how they determined 40 feet, 45 feet. 21 HR. ULRICH: I would presume that one makes a judgment from the high water mark. 22 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Again, the house is skewed. 23 HR. ULRICH: Again, my point being the distance from the high water mark te the 24 home, the footprint of the home is unchanged. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Correct. 25 MS. KOWALSKi: I think what they're asking was the existing footprint set December 18, 2003 68 1 2 back? HN U~RICH: i believe ~Nat tc be 3 exactly approximately 40 lent. 2NAiRi,,,IMAN 0~iI/A: ~5 feeh on one % side ~e the ~-e l_ne on ~he easn s~de. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: It's nor 5 labeled on your survey. C~AiRWOMAN OLiVA: R~ght. it's 6 ne~ labeled e~ the HR. U~RiC~: Sure i~ might ~eve slight ~n~le ~c ~ deeendino }n CNAiRWCHAN OLiVA: Sc i~ would be 8 mere ~ctually sn the wes~ side BOARD ~EH~ER ~ORNiNC It could be 9 %C then. BOAR£ MSM~ER TORTCRA: We have no ~0 idea. 80ARD ~EM~rR OR~2{DO: T½ey micht ~1 have sceled ~ elf the Bui!oinc BOARD KEH~ER ~ORN!NS: S~S would J2 you say then ~n ~emmary ~he reaso~ you re here for the Not~c~ os D~sapproval ~s ~eca~se one 13 exlsrang dweilinq ~as a nonconzcrm~n~ setback? MR. -~ · ~rr~ it U_RICH: ~hat is o~ 14 ~s my understanding tha~ ~y v-rr'le of ehe 15 consErucElon s,crzvzEy no rake place sn the 16 aOvzse you that there's someYhiPc we wang 17 mn no ~ay a!rers that exm~ring noncoxlormance ~c my understandixo. 18 BOARi MEMBER MORNING: Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: You re non 19 expanding a noncenlorm~ng. You re merely putting a dormer? 20 MR. ULRICH: That s correcn. CHAiRWOI{AN OLIVA: Hrs. Fcrtera? 21 BOARi MEMBER TORTORA: It's rough calcuiatien ~ nc 4C the sherresn 22 distance will he 37 £o 40. ?dR. ULRICH: Fhat could he. 23 BOARD MEHBER TORTCRA: it~s Bur mn the survey. It's just kke varzances for that 24 you might war~t ~o know that. HR. ULRICH: Dkay ti'ank yom. 25 CHAiR}rOMAN DLIVA: Mr. 3rlando? BOARL KEHBER DRLANo0: Sust ~or 2003 i 2 the record some notes on that, adding en what Beerd Hember ?ertere said, the dimension ef 3 the dormer is 20 feet by whet? Doesn't really say, but 20 feet also? 4 MR. ULRICH: I'll have to take a quick look at the prints. 5 BOARD MEHBER ORLANDO: Top view. MR. ULRICH: Correct. I don't see 6 it as being anymore than 20 feet. In other words, I'm !eoking et what ! know to be a 7 quarter ef an inch to a foot, as I look at this, I'm an engineer, it strikes me as 8 appreximetely five inches se ! can conclude 20 feet. ~ BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Once again it does not extend beyond the original 10 footprint? MR. ULRICH: Correct. 11 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Homing? BOARD MEMBER HORNING: Ail set. 12 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Geehringer? 13 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Ne questions. We just had a variance on this 14 piece of property, I'm fully cognizant. CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: I don't 15 any questions either. Anybody else in % audience speak in favor or against this{ 16 application? Seeing no one, then I will make a motion te close this hearing and reserve 17 decision until later. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second. 18 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Ail in favor? (Whereupon, all 8eerd Members 19 responded in fever.) Mk. ULRICH: Net being familiar 20 with your policies -- CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: We will have a 21 special meeting in about two weeks, and then give us another week after that. 22 MR. ULRICH: Is there a problem with anything that I have presented here? 23 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Ne. It's our procedure. We de the heerings new. We have a 24 special meeting to make sure that they're worded properly; then they're typeo up and 25 presented te the Town Clerk end by that time December 18, 2003 7O 2 HR. ULRICH: Snceld we men zx touch with you in three weeks? ! UHA!RWOM_'NN DLIVA: Yes fhaf wi.l' % there's e prebiem. BOAR~ HEHB~R DRLANDO: If ~e were 5 no~ zN favor ano we had a s~oblem we're really very up front Ef we don' ~ like it we 6 don't like z~. 2HAIRWOMRN %LIVA: P~aNk you very much and hav~ a happy holiday. 8 2HAIRWOH~N D~iVA: Our nexn ~pD]icatien zs Mr, Donald Grim Number 5%61. 9 He wo~id like ~o do something with his cozner pzece there a~ Co~'s Lane axe the Ncrth Roan 10 for ~ horse barn. Hr. ~ran~ believe zs yeuz architect? 11 HR. SIRING: Yes g}ed afternoon Garret StraNg representing t~e aeplicant. 12 CHAIR~OHAN DLIVA: Good ~fcernoon ii HR. STRANG: I did recezve one last green card his afterncozi zx rte 1¥ail so 1% I'il bring ~z u~. Our application ~ ~ 15 relatively srrazghz fox-ward. We have an egrzcui~ura] 8zece ez property. The znrented 16 use zs ec pu~ a horse barn ~Ne eppllcatzen zs for ~o put a horse ~arn on thai ezece sf 17 Dresercy. Ynfortunately i.% is _eso ~xan ten acres that the ~ui!d~ng heparrmexn has 18 reGuired ns ~o seek relzei from ~hzs Board. The barn -s intended for personal ese 19 and housing ef personal sorses. IT's me~n~ for a riOine ~caeemy ir boardin~ other 2{ horses or D~her PNings like That. Iz's str_cbly a personally used ~ ~ . I ~on'z know 21 wha~ e~se [ mzght add ~c that- as I said, qul~e straightforward, would be happy re 22 answer any questions ~h~ Boaro may nave. ~tAiKWoMAN ,~IVA: ?4r. Orlando? 2! BOARE MEMBER DRLANDO: Sure if you ceu!d elaborate on chis. You have a let 24 of ac~zvzey going en here. You nav~ a farm sesnd whlc~ has dn exezred ~uz±dlng eerm!z 25 HR STRANG: TkaP osrm!z has keen Decelher 18 2C ,'q'~ 7i 1 2 project is moving toward completion. CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: I'm sorry? 3 MR. STRANG: There is a current permit on that; the permit's been 4 reinstated. CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Do you have 5 confirmation on that? MR. STRANG: I may have one in my 6 file. i can certainly provide it to the Board if I don't have it in my file. See what I 7 have here. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: We have two 8 Notice of Disapproval. An old one, which explains the -- 9 MR. STRANG: The disapproval I believe makes reference to the fact that the 10 permit be renewed. Let me look at that once again. 11 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: We have the October 15th '03. 12 MR. STRANG: Bear with me a moment. I have mere paperwork on this than I 13 normally have for some reason. BOARD HEHBER ORLANEO: I have the 14 wrong da~ed one in front ef me here. '/ CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: i have the 15 January. BOARD HEMBER ORLANDO: That's the 16 one. I was misinformed. I'm reading a combined file there far the October 15th. 17 BOARD HEMBER TORTORA: The January one that I have cites three specific issues 18 here. It says you're proposing a horse barn. MR. STRANG: That's correct. 19 BOARD HEMBER TORTORA: And one that says it's keeping, breeding, raising 20 horses less than ten acres and the property is seven, 7.44, so that's one variance. 21 MR. STRANG: Exactly. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Second 22 variance says that the farm stand permit has expired, and then it goes on te say that if, 23 even if it's reissued, thaY the farm stand must be located on a let containing 5 tillable 24 acres of land excluding any horse or agricultural building. Sol assuming we get 25 over the first hurdle, which is variance Number 1, then we have te ge to the second December 18, 2003 72 2 sne which even if you hsve a farm stand you would Nave cc ~e~ e varmance Eo the farm ! reoulations. It s kind %f ccnvo!uted, i k~o~ zr really is. 4 HR STRANS: ! may be able ~o slmp!ify it for you, hopefully I 2an The ~ permit nas been renewed for the farm stand believe it's good for ~n least ~nsther year 6 which w~ll brine us inne '05 a~ this It will be sompleted by that paine ~nd a - 2ermificate ef sccupancy will be issued. Sc there wasn't ~ny need for a variance fo~ the ~ farm stand ~ all It was 3us~, I think ~ was a point of reference that ar the El~e t~!s 9 !isapproval was wrimEen i~ was a permi{ mhaE was sEill }pen ano had exalted end ~ hadn't 10 been CO'd yea_ With reseece Fo the five acres Df ~illable land there's ~o relief being 11 souoht for enam oecause we are providinc five acres of tillable land for the farm seaNd i2 situation and the calculations as such have been Drovided ec the Building Depar~enE and ~3 have a lopy that ! cou-i provmde this Board 14 BOARi MEKBER fORTORA: So you want no throw ~11 ne acreage innJ the farm smano 15 and leave iE there s actusily 3nly 5.2 acres ef tillable land and knock ~m dowL to 16 one varzancc because you'l~ apply t~at land that's hi!lab!e ~o the variance beino souoht 17 }nehe mar acres: ms that HR. STR}_NS: think the bottom 18 line ~s the relief we're seemzno is uc have a Norse barn ~9 ~OARD MEMBER PORTORA: A new cede written on this issue immediately. 20 HR. STRANG: On msny Dther issues could bring the wheelbarrow in with the 21 list but CKAIRWOHAN OLiVA: Garrett 22 think yDu're going mc need a new Notice ef Disapproval Too ion ~ you? Because i~ says 23 the permi{ has expired and the farm seanO muse be located blah blah ~iab. 2~ HR. STRANG: Well if ee will provide you with a copy of eno 2urrenE eermiE 25 w~ll that not mllevlate Ehae? CSAiNWOMAN OLiVA: ~bink December 18 2051 73 2 just needs to be updated, your Notice of Disapproval, that it's really just for the 3 horse barn, never mind the farm stand, which if you say you have e new permit, that will be 4 fine. You need a new Notice of Disapproval. This is what we're going by. 5 MR. STRANG: I didn't know that that -- it wasn't a subject te my application 6 because it was never an issue. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: But it is en 7 our -- MR. STRANG: Would you like a copy 8 of the letter that was given to the Building Department which documents -- how we arrived 9 at the five tillable acres for your file? CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: That's fine, 10 then we have to have an updated Notice of Disapproval 11 MR. STRANG: If I understand, does that mean without the updated Notice of 12 Disapproval, we need to continue this to another date or can we proceed? 13 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: No, we can proceed, ne problem. 14 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: No, we can proceed, no problem, just make it a coneltlen. / 1S MS. KOWALSKI: If there's ~nything new in the disapprevai that wasn't addressed 16 before -- CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Then we just 17 adjourn the hearing. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: You're 18 safer off. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Adjourn te the 19 special meeting in January. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Leave it 20 open, because if something happens ever there that triggers and you have te 21 MR. STRANG: Have to reapply. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Leave it 22 open for your own protection. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Or you'll have 23 to readvertise it and everything. BOARD MEMBER TORTO~: Leave it 24 open for your own protection. MR. STRANG: I don't have any 25 aversion to that. I agree with you, let's run it as smoothly as pessibie, it's a surprise December 18, 2003 2 ce me that £hls wasn't already r_~l~ed~o~ x given the permit was _enew-d. ~ ~OARD MEMBER HORNING: Hr~ St~anc? HR. SIRANG Yes 4 BOARD HEHBER HORNiKG: How many horses are oolno ~o be hcused in the barn? 5 HR. 8~R}zN-G: We're propeslRg ~ou~ horses be stalled ~n the barns. 6 2HAIR~OMAN le would b~ on lanuary 22xd ~ 2:30. 2HAiRWOMAN ~LiVA: Any commen~s Mr. Drlandol 6 BOARD MEMBER }RLANDO: How long has Mr. =_~m owned eh~s p~ece e{ properuy? 9 MR. S~RANG A±~u~ ~ie over ten years. 1{ BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: The reason I'm ~sking ~s. I'm sure you are aware of your 11 surroundings, I would use be heartbroken we voted ~n ~ind in ~h!s variance ~nd Ehen 12 years from now se the front page, you're su-~c the rifle rants for disturbing veur horses. ]! You're aware you nave a gun range ©ehie~ you 9nd Route 68 ~n front oi you and where ~v's 14 10nd ~n the mo~_n=ng, ind tP's horses can't breed because of ~he gun f~re. 15 HR. GRIM: I'P nee looking ue breed anything, I havs three c~r!s. 16 BOARD MEMBER DRL'ANDI: I ~sr ~anted ~c-- fou know somesoey-~ buys a house by 17 the ~reorn and all oI a sodden it's res loud with the planes going over. i~ HR. 3RIH: This is ~asu for my ~r±s. 19 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: You re aware Df you~ surroundincs? 2{ HR_ IRIH: ~'m very much aware Df ~hat. 48 s very busy I m aware ef all that. 21 BOARD MEMBER DRLANDO Nc ohh~= 22 2HAIRWOKAN D-IVA: Hr. Horn~ngo BOARD M~M~R HORNiNG: Phsre might 23 be three er four horses ~n this barn you re using ~il your lano ~or your tillable acreage 24 co m~eE the farm ~Tand rec'uLremenEs o! the five acres and there s sti=l room !or horses? 25 MR. S_RAN~ .... re-err!nc EC ~he slue plan /eu'!i see zhere ~s an area EhaE s 2901 I5 1 2 X'd out, that is the turn out area; there's plenty of space for four horses to graze. 3 BOARD MEMBER HORN!NS~ Not taking into the five acres? 4 MR. STRANG: No, thet's in excess ef the five acres. And that document I just 5 provided to the file en how we arrived at five acres is pretty clearly defined, the building 6 square footage, the driveway, the turn out area. 7 BOARD HEMBER HORNING: The corral? MR. STRANG: Yes. Ail that's 8 included in the tabulation ef hew we get the five acres ef tillable. 9 CHAIRWOPh~N OLIVA: Mr. Goehringer? BOARD MEHBER GOEHRINGER: i have 10 no objections te the plan. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Is there 11 anybody in the audience that wishes te speak for er against this application? Yes, 12 Hr. Heinrich? MR. HEINRICH: Yes. The name is 13 Bernard Heinrich, i live on County Read 48. Since this owner has bought this property, it 14 is used for commercial purposes only. it is used to sell cars, trucks, and construction 15 / equipment, and now te rent out dumpsters. ~- I have some ph©tes that perhaps 16 you would like te leek at. There is a large earthen berm built on a west and south side ©f 17 an agricultural storage buiiding. This berm is approximately 300 feet long, 20 foot wide 18 and ten feet high; it is net shown on the plans tNat you have. If you deduct this as 19 net being tillable acres, you have less than five acres. This berm hides from the view 20 Construction trailers, a large live-in house trailer and trucks. The agricultural ~ r sHe_age 21 building allegedly is rented out to a trek experter~ This property is littered wi~N eld 22 trucks, and box body trailers. This property does not appear te be used for agricultural 23 purposes. It is a disgrace and changes the character of the Neighborhood. The 24 application appears te be a cempiete subterfuge. Thank you. 25 CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: Thank you, Hr. Heinrich. December 18, 2083 76 1 2 BOAR~ MEMBER DRLAKDO: Geu!d you like re respond Fo tha~? ~ ~dR. STRYNG: E would like nc respond mc me. The Drope~ty hss -~- iscn 4 been used for agricu!lural purposes. Phere's been the field has been planted with 5 pumpkins which were sold ~t the farm ~tands and okher vegetables. Im s presently harm wluh orchard 6 the field has been olanted uhere's mnmenmmoms oi planting more ef the field with ~rchards fo~ ace!es ~nd pears other fruits, mean this is in eng}~no 8 family, owned and operated if you wmi! venuure. Sc mt's very labor intensive !or a 9 family ~o ge~ involved ~ith ~ ~t's nor mov!~a ~t the fastest 1¥ ~aces but 1E is in 10 fact developing u0 mus uitiRate use and tha~ is far ~n agricultu2ai ~ureose that being ll orchards ~nd !ruits vegetables whatever. CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: Gary what ~s 12 that berm on the ~_o_~h s~de of the bui]ding~ HR. 8TRANG: That berm I believe 13 was bu~i~ Don you lan ccr~ecv ~e CHAIRWOH~AN OLiVA: Is that Dn your 14 ~roperEy Ben° HR. SRIM: When you puE u~ 15 bui!dina ~Ld you have ua surm~ the ecu semi you have T's pus in someolace. And the Town 16 asked that ~r wash r removed from the smme we used some for rearaamna. 17 CHA_RWOHAN OLIVA: And There ms a buildinc behind that hart ms rha~ yours alsol iidn't knew you had ro ~now the exmrs dlrl. i8 BOARD MEKBE~ ORLANDO: The trailers ~hat tn-s gentleman 20 MR GRIM: Ihere's ~ house trailer back there and we were mn front of the Town 21 Board ~nree or four months ago, and we received a eermmn. ~6e have co ~pply ne the 22 DeparmmeNz sf Health for sepalc and wacer and the house mram~er can be cue mn place but we 23 lid receLve a oermlE fram the Iewn Beard for a security trailer ind that's wnau that s far. 24 There are ether trailers back there that we 25 the proper2y Than we use uc move The tart grade the fielo. '~be sars that are ~nere 3eceKber 18 2003 I7 1 2 they're net mine. ~t is a family project. I have 3 three girls, and we work en i~ oN weekends~ We're trying te build some family memories. 4 I'm sorry he doesn't see it that way, but net everybody looks at the picture the same 5 way. It's almost dena, my kids have stained every sNingle before we put it up. We have a 6 let ef geed memories. Like Garret said, a let ef people want to see things done today, ne 7 it's not done today. The last thing i have to do is electric on the inside. We did plant 35 8 apple trees; we have 35 more coming, 35 after that. ~ CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Where are they planted? 1£ HR. GPIM: Right behind the farm stand. 11 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Parallel to Thompson's? 12 MR. GRIM: Yes. And there's also two rows of grapes. We tried grapes, but a 13 little tee much spraying for me, the apple trees are better. i4 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Goehringer. / 15 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER:/~r. Grim, isn't it your determination I'm net putting 16 words in your mouth that there are additional trailers on pieces ef property, if 17 not adjacent contiguous te these properties similar requests and again, i'm not -- i'm 18 just asking yon to say yes, because i sat in ena Town Beard hearing for Hr. Thompson, who 19 is not far away from you that has the landscaping business. His request at the same 2{ time was for a security trailer also, and I suspect that's what yen requested from the 21 Town Beard also. MR. GRIH: Yes. 22 BOARD MEMBER GOESRINGER: At the time he said, and I can quote him, and if yen 23 were to read the record, that the purpose ef the trailer was that he was losing gasoline 24 out of some of his vehicles and some things were being steien ~rom his property. 25 MR. GRIM: That's correct. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: And it's December 18, 2003 78 1 2 ]use the width of that nu-~sery nexm does that greenhouse SiE~aElOR w½avever that w_o~_h is 3 40( 500 feet aed ne s ex the lvhnr side of -hat lsx'u he howl 4 MR. GRIM: Tommy Thomeson's r!cht eh_n~s dumoed on next deer. E've always had 5 our preperhy, ~nd we had me call ~he celica down. We had Eolice records of nhae. 8o 6 that's what that traiier's about. 2HAIRWOH~X 0~iVA: Was that berm included Ln your ca!culatiens for cultivated fields? 8 MR. STR~NG: The berm is r~ght here indicatmng~ . 9 MR. }RIH: I 2an move iHAIRWOY~N DLIVA: How many uses 10 you have on the mnzng, you have m ssorage rrailer, you have a building for agriculture il sEorage and you ha~e some or~er trailers each there. 12 MR. GRIP{: There's Eraaiers uhat we have wood in that we use Nc 13 'HAIRWOMAN OLiVA: Actually your calculation for 7.4 or slx seven ecrus ~s nor 14 really Yrue ~er _~lt~v~t~e zle_d. I~ you nave a berm back there winb buildinos behind mu se 15 your acreage is less MR. GRIH: if you wann ~ removed 16 we can remove ir. HR. STRANG: The oerm ~s th~ only 17 thine that s nor caiculaneo ~n~o everyuhzng else has been zn ~scr calculated 18 inmo that u'o arrzve az those numbers. HR. }RIH: ~,~e'll nake zn down 19 you wanE. I think when veu ~o zor the building perm~m they ~sk w~il ~his soil be 2{ removed. And ~f you ~nswer ne yom leave there. They ask you that oues~lon. 21 2HAIRWOKAN DLIVA~ it juse seems yo~ have more uses am this ~lece oe prooer~y 22 ~han means lhe eye. MR. 3RiH: ~ s all a~ricultural 23 uses. We're nee changing uses. It's ~ii agricultural that's kind ef one use. 24 2HAIRWO~AN DZEVA: Hr. Orlando. BOAR2 Nh{B~R ORLANDO: Did rney 25 ~pprove your permm~ 2er the trak±er and how long did ~n g~ve you for the o~u_~y tramler? 79 i 2 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Six months usually. 3 HR. GRIM: Yes~ BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: What % happens after that? MR. GRIM: Renew it. I came in 5 front ef the Town Beard far that, and I nad to give police reports. We try te de the right 6 thing. I try te get the paperwork. If there's anything you want dena, tell me, we'll ? try te de it. BOARD MEMBER HORNING: In addition 8 to the agricultural uses, are you leasing or renting various pieces of equipment or 9 dumpsters? MR. GRIM: I do have a sanitation 10 company which I just started, and I have a truck that's registered, insured and 11 inspected. It's allowed to be on that property, I talked to Ed Forester about this. 12 It's allowed to be there. I do park it there, no doubt about it. 13 BOARD MEMBER HORNING: You have what kind of an additional business? !4 MR. GRIM: Not on this piece of property en another piece of property we 15 started a sanitation company, and we do have very small dumpsters, and we park them on the 16 back. De you know what a dumpster is? Okay. A dumpster sits on the back ef the truck and I 17 do park it at that corner for advertisement, yes, I do. 18 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Do you still awn that other piece ef property to the north 19 ef the landfill? MR. GRIM: Yes, I de, Ruth. 20 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Is that where you're doing the -- 21 MR. GRIM: Yes. ~OARD HEMBER HORN!NG: One other 22 question en the dumpster situamien, you say you park it on the corner for advertising. 23 MR. GRIM: Yes. BOARD MEMBER HORNING: Can someone 24 ge te that parcel and rent that particular dumpster er do they go somewhere else? 25 MR. GRIM: It's actually they drive by and see a phone number and call me. Decemoer 18, 2003 8O 2 BOAR~ KE~BER HORNING~ They don't gee that parrlcu!ar dumps~er that sYays ' there? ~{x. IRiF: No. ~_ an s a eru2k 4 use every day. Sometimes when it's no~ use I eark lE there. The vehicles that are S for sale stere they're not mlne. Some potpie just put them there. I've had people drive 6 and just park their far and walk away and ge hey what are you doing. BOAR~ KEHBER 30EHRINGER- those vehicles are psrked Mr ir~m they 8 ~!ght nos he on your proDerEy ~nd ~hey m~ghE be on the County ri h~ 9 MR. IRiF: A lot if hhem are or the Town roads yes. 10 CHAiRWOHAN DLiVA: Is uhere anybody else7 Yes Mr Heimr!ch7 11 MR. HEINRICH: Let me respond a little. The amount of earth that's sreated in 12 that berm did not any way come from the e~cavatlon ef hhat building that's 1! barn buildunG. A lot of that maEer~a± was trucked zn~ As [aTM as uae trucks ere 14 concerned ~N's a large - you 2an ride by the premises - ~ s a large white bedy, truck 15 body ]ust/drcpeed south of ese right ef way mc the rear of 7he pronerty There are other 16 trucks hzdden used the words hidden - behind the berm Bo zna% nc Dne ia~ see them 17 ~rom mhe szree~ line. If yoc r~ s~ by yourself you will ~om see anything because 18 the berm zs there amd evergreen trees Nave been slanted along ~¼ ~ e ~a route. That ~s 19 tillable proeerry CHAiRWOHA_N DLIVA: Thank you 20 Mr. Heinrich. Mr. Grzm. HR. ]RIM: TPe whit~ ~ruck body 21 he's talking about :s a refrigerated body where when we sou D~eraEloN we can Keeu the 22 eroduce cold a~ nzght, it s back by the Gun cluk sc if there's nelse from the engine 23 running ~'s Rot ~o~ng uc disturb an,-bo~v. You were worrying about Ehe no.se from the Gun 24 cluk i don't kave any nezghbers No uhe back. Every Saturday, Sunday ~nd weekends there's 25 guns going off all day lona. Sc a little refricerav:on body i didn'u think was Decemner 18 2003 81 1 2 Nurt anybody or have anybody complain. If it's net allowed, it's not allowed. I'll take 3 it away. CHAIRNOMAN OLIVA: I move that we % adjourn this hearing until January 22f 2004 at 2:30 p.m. 5 BOARD MEMBER GO~HRINGER: I make tNe motion. 6 BOARD MEMBER HORNING: Second. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Ail in favor? 7 {Whereupon, all Board Members responded in favor.) 8 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Se moved. HR. GRIH: Thank you very much. 9 Hove a nice holiday. 10 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Next application is Hain Read Brokerage, Number 11 5%07, proposed marine showroom at Hain Read, Southeld. Mr. McCarthy, good afternoon, hew 12 are you? HR. MCCARTHY: Good afternoon, 13 likewise. Hew's everybody? Tom McCarthy Management, representing the applicant, Main 1% Road Brokerage. Just the nature of the application and t~e need for reiief~ B~! 15 Witski, who owns A1Dertsen Ha~ne {,ne is a principal of Hain Road Brokerage iS~ going to 16 be moving his operation from the north side of -- I'm sorry from the se~th side of 25 into 12 the north side of 25 into this new facility. This is a facility he will own, end presently 18 where he is located he does not own the building, is a tenant and needs te move. He 19 is ieoking to have a warehouse and stere showroom and some bathrooms for his patrons. 20 The gist ef the disapproval from the Building Department stems from the fact that te the 21 westerly property line, his 50 feet right of way en hhe west side ef the property he has 22 deeded access across that right of way. It's net his intention through the Planning ~oard 23 application te use the right ef way, but because he does have a right of way across it, 24 the Building Inspector gave us a disapproval and determined it's a front yard. We have two 25 front yards, eno is en 25. We're in the M2 Zeno, which dictates a 35 foot setback. We December 18, 2003 82 2 have zn consideration Df eno szze of the bni!dkng, we've real~y m©ved ~he b~}iTdlng 3 off of 25 nc lessen ~ne lmeac~ re The ~ravei~no public acwn 25 we're bask 22~ 4 percent of w~at we need tc be ~sck }l oil ef Route 25~ TNe travei~no public wi~! really 5 see this bui]dino and ~ e~ii see the ~de the beilding as a side yard. They won't 6 realize that technically it s a front yard~ In the M2 zone the side yard m~nlmem requmremenh ~s 20 feeE: we meeE e~an plus five feet. S{ we really mean the splr~ and 8 of the code. if he lid nos Nave ieeded access across the rLght ef way we weu!d nee be in 9 front Df you. BOAR£ MENBER TORTORA~ You ion't ~0 own the r~ght Df way? HR. HCCARUHY: He does nom awn the 11 right sf way, no. I~ he iidn'E na~e ieed access we wouldn't De here we'd be cont~nuinc 22 through our process with the Planning Board sc ~m's really a technicality. 1! BO~RE HEKBER DRLAND0 Does that r~ght of way access %he railroad? 1% HR. MCCARTHY: Ne. thin]{ three or four homes are back ehere. Again, in meems 15 the splrie and ~nmenn e~ she leds heine a side yard; ~itheugh ~t's technically a side yard 16 and ~t's the m~nlmum ~hat s necessary for Witskz and Ha~n Roao Brokerage ~n order rc 17 accomplish e½e~r ous~ress. Thoy have a related company n½ar owns an ~oloin~nc parcel 18 ef preperEy no ~he ease and they elan Dn uszno hhese ~ees a!?nougN %hev will betP be 19 indeeendent ~nd stand alone from each otner for s-Ee plan purposes, they will somh be used 2{ physically ~cgether. We iealt with she Pian~lno Boaro and ~hey have 2ross access 21 going between the ewc preperEmes You see Dn the smte elan Ehere's AOHP the'~'il be 2rcss 22 access between the ~wc properEleS. Sc they would be able ee bllno their boans !rem one 23 prepermy ne mhe }eher preperEy if they're being worked on Dr stored or what have you. 24 And hhat s why this bs4idino ~s being pushed as far as ~e is ~o the wesE- 1- s 25 accommodate and facilitate large beats travel lifts, fork lifts whan haee you bemween the December 18 2001 83 2 two buildings. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Some ef these 3 buildings are going te be used for a dry deck? HR~ MCCARTHY: Yes, I believe h~'s 4 going to use -- CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Big buildings. 5 MR. MCCARTHY: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Which, for big 6 beats you need big buildings. MR. MCCARTHY: Yes. Big boats 7 need big buildings, although they're net looking for any variances as far as size or 8 lot coverage er height or anything like that. We certainly -- dealing with the ether 9 criteria within the zeno. It's the minimum that's necessary te accommodate its business 1{ given the circulation plan he had laid out en the site, with hew the boats move, the travel 11 lifts, the fork lifts, et cetera. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: You have to ge 12 to Planning Beard for site plan approval? MR. MCCARTHY: Yes, we're in the 13 Planning Beard right new, as a matter ef fact. We're in the Planning Beard, Health Department 14 and all the ether agencies. ~" CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mrs. Tortera? 15 // BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I don't have ~ a hock efa let of questions. You already 16 submitted these plans te the Planning Beard? MR. MCCARTHY: Yes, and I believe 17 you have a memorandum tram the Planning Beard in your ZBA file. 18 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Nave they made a~y initial suggestions as far as 19 landscaping? MR. MCCARTHY: Yes, and we're 20 working with them and incorporating that into their landscape plan. 21 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: The width ef the building's 100 feet? 22 MR. MCCARTHY: Yes. BOARD HEMBEN TORTORA: Thank you 23 very much. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Orlando. 24 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I have no questions for Mr. McCaruhy, bur a question for 25 our own Board. Member Homing, didn't you mention at the last meeting about Ehe right of December 18, 2003 1 2 way; iidn't ~he ZoFing 8oard make some sor~ a s~auemen~ about right of ways severaJ years ~ ago DF ar_ · misinformed? BOAR~ ~El.aox HORNING: We lid We ~ came ~o an lnne~pre~ar~on that a r~ght o! way was no~ s ~rcnt yard, property adjoining a 5 r~ght e{ way was nee ~ front yard MS. KOWADSKI~ in cer~ai~ BOAR~ MEMBER DRLANDO: So in wasn't generic? BOAR~ MEMBER HORNING: No. 8 HR. MCCARTHY~ We've been ~nlormei by the Buildin~ ~nseecno~ that helped us 9 ln~erere~ 1~ was ii the app!ican~ hat a deeded right across that right ef way ~hee ~r was ~0 considered a ~ron~ yard; ~i they did non have a deeded ' ~ across ~ r~gn~ ~ben l~ was whatever 11 yard they wanted ~ e© be be ~T s~de er rear. BOAR~ MEMBER HORNING~ And we ~- ruled on a private rioh~ ~f way situation. HR. HCCARTHY: And this ~s e 1i erlva~e r~oht }f way ~s well~ CHAiRWOM~N ~LIVA: Hr. 14 Goehringer. BOARE HE 3~R IOEHRiNGER: · was 15 over ~e ehe sf~ice this eas~ Sa{urday ~nd [{r. Witski Sender s~owed me i believe 16 probably one map yo~ have ~n front ~ you. Tom and we ran }ver ~he acruai s~ze of ~he 17 building ~s p~0x~m~ ~n the ex~s~n~ building ~hat's ~n~e sf course there s a lot 16 of boats en ~here r~Ght new and I really don't hsve any questions. We kRow it's 19 beatino ~rea. ~nd i~ A~ s comestible with the 2{ MR. HCCAR~HY: Any ~urther cuestiens? 21 2HAIRWOMAN ~LiVA: Does anyDody ~n the eudienc~ have Rny questions for er 22 agains~ ~Ne ~pp!icatien? See~rg none I have nc further quese~ens. I move ~kat we close 21 ~he hearino ~nd reserve decisie~ until later. BOARD MEMBER ~OEHR~NGER: Second~ 24 2HAiRWOMAN ~!VA: All in ~avor? Whereueon a~l Beard Hembers 25 ~eseonded zn !aver. 2HA£RWOMAN }L!VA: Th~xk you for Dece~rber ~8 200~ 85 1 2 coming in and a happy New Year and a Hurry Christmas. 3 HR. HCCARTHY: Thank yen, same for the ~eerd. CHAIRWOMAN OL!VA: Our next 5 hearings en Osprey Demin±e~ and LIPA Keyspan and Number 5%32V and 5432SE. How do yen de? 6 MS. MINTZER: Good morning, I'm Karen Hintzer. I'm counsel for Long Island Power Authority, it's the applicant. Key Spar is acting as LiPA's agent se if yen see Key 8 Span's name in the paper er LIPA and Key Span are acting together for purposes ef these 9 applications. LIPA's seeking a special exception A0 te construct a public facility strncture in an agricultural conservation district, and also a ~1 height variance, as the proposed public utility structure, which is a wind turbine is 12 125 feet, the structure is 100 feet and the wing span ef the turbine is 25 feet. The 13 proposed wind turbine is part of LIPA's clean energy initiative project. There's a 14 representative from LIPA here, Hark ~o~gherty, who would like te say a couple werd~ about 15 that program after I give a brief/intr©. We also have our environmental consul]rant here 16 who is going te shew you a ceup!e of boards ef how the wind turbine is going te ioek like. 17 The wind turbine is going to be ieca~ed en the Osprey ~omi~ien's property. The lot tNat it's 18 going to be on is 4.64 acres. Two acres a~e available for this use. LIPA's entered into a 19 lease with the owner of the property, which permits LIPA to use a 25 by 35 foot piece of 20 land necessary for the construction and operation of the turbine. LIPA also has an 21 easement te run a power line from the wind turbine to its existing distribution line. 22 LIPA's acting as lead agency for purposes ef SEQP, A review ef this project, and 23 it notified the Planning Board ef ~ts - Planning Board and the ZBA ef its intention te 24 act as lead agency en August 20th. Ne objection was heard. Thereafter, LIPA 25 presented or submitted a full environmental assessment with its application on the October December 18, 2003 86 1 2 208N. The EA analyzes all the potential environmeNra! impacts of rne wind usrbixe ! JncludiPc ~pac~s cF land vse zen]nc community facilitLes histcricai and 4 archeoloc~cal resources vis%a! resources na~urai resources n~za_dods ma~er!a~s 5 traffic a!~ quai!~y, no.se and pohen'clai conseruc~lon and cumulative impacts. T~e 6 environmental assessmen~ reveals no significant env~ronmenea_ ~mDaces resulting from ~he wind turbine, in fact ~ne w~nd turbine will actually be an snvironmental 8 benefit. ~t will elimfnate the use of 160 }06 gallo~s ef fsel o±1 er 22.6 million cublc feet 9 of natural gas over a 20 year period, it will eliminate the emission ef carbon dioxide 1{ sulphur iiexide and nitrogen oxide ~n particular. Sc we be!leve nn~s ~s going i1 actually be aN environmental bexefit. LIPA ~s sa~_sz~ed that ~r nas 12 fully ~nalyzed ~11 If the environmental zmpacns; however ~n hasn't maSe 11 determination of sicn~zmca~ce sc the SE'RA ~rocess ~s s~ill ~p~o - oecaus~ tko 1~ Board has advised us ~na~ we are that has reEained ~n env~rcnmenkal_onsu~tant~ - ~ and iS in s going Eo have rhar consultant review ~_h~ envlronmenEal assessmenm. And LiPA intends Ec 16 consider any commen~s mba% consui~an~ may nave before ~ makes ~s de~ermlnar~on 17 s~ nlf~can~e. So we have ehe ouesnioF ~or ~he 18 Beard as ~c whether we should - we'd like make our presenzanzon 8oday, but we may need 1S ~o continue this hearlno eendino any issues that m~gkt arise from nnaE revLew. 20 Mark DouGhermy would like uo say a few words about the clear enercy ln!¥laE!ve 21 yrogram. MR. DCUGNRRTY: iced afternoon 22 ~ame is 2!ark Do~lgher~y i'm the 2lean snergy ~ro~ecn manager for LIPA. i asr wanz nc ~!ve 23 ~ br~o~ descripE~on of our clean energy ~nlEiative program and thi~ wind turbine 24 iemonsmranLon program. Thzs o_~c-~_am ~s she of the mosE ~mbLmious 2iean energy programs 25 the nation, i% s approximately S3S0 miiiio~ DYer Ten years Ye ero~ome s]eam energy. We Decemsew 1~ 2803 87 1 2 also promote renewable energy programs, demonstrations as well as efficiency peak load 3 management programs and also research and development and demonstration programs, which 4 this application is one of. We're also -- renewable energy is 5 defined as energy that comes from resources that are not depleted er naturally replenished 6 when used at sustainable levels. And just a brief overview with this joint program with 7 the Long Island Farm Bureau for a land based wind turbine demonstration. The purpose ef 8 this program is to demonstrate the feasibility and viability ef wind power en agricultural 9 lands, small footprint and continued unobstructed use of surrounding property. In 10 December of 2001 a joint letter was sent te the Farm Bureau members requesting 11 applications for potential wind turbine sites, field visits to potential sites also te assure I2 the environmental capability as laid out in the EEA. This unit here is a 50 kilowatt wind 13 turbine, which is feeding power back to the grid under a lease agreement as Karen has 14 stated with our site operating agreement with ~ the host. The first unit was installed in August ef 2002 at the Zay Brothers Farm, Windy Acres located in Calverton. That was 16 dedicated by Governer Pataki on August 31, '02. Thank you. 17 BOARD MEMBER GOBHRINGER: Can I ask a question, Ruth? 18 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Go ahead. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Is that 19 operating at all times new, er is there a time when it's net operating? 20 MR. DOUGHERTY: It's operating 24 and 7. 21 BOARD MEMBER GOEHR!NGER: Do we owner s permission need your permission, the ~ ' 22 or whose permission te go and see that in an operating condition? 23 MR. DOUGHERTY: One of the things in all our demonstration programs, whether 24 it's fuel cells, wind turbines, we do ask that we just notify the host because it's private 25 property, that we just give them the head's up that we're going te shew up. December 18, 2003 88 1 2 BOARD MEHBER GO_HR_NGER: SC ~hould we make ,Ne appe,nnmen~ th~euoh ~ ?cunsel? MR DOUG!iERTY: !owever 'our 4 2eNvenlence_ MS MINTZER:_ T m sure LIPA ~ 5 pleased te Nest this Beard ~nd make a ~rl~ if Feu waN~ but yeah. you can get in touch with 6 me and I'1! arrange ~ through LIPA. BOARD H~HBER SOEHRiNGER: realize -- luse let me g~ve you my ie~erm,nae~en -- I realize ~ let }~ the 8 ~nforma~_oK within the env~ronmentai ~meace sta~emen~ may be generlc eo certain sl~uae!ons 9 that you have produced already b~t un~ueiy this Board eno I'm ne~ ~peakinc for the !0 Beard I~m ~peakino far mysel~ I've been en the Board for 27-semethino years we're 11 interested ~n drone noisz irene from ~ I know ~ s mentioned ~n here. Rnd more ~n 12 particular the ability ee shut ~h~ syseem dawn in high wind situations ~nd wha~ Phe velocity 13 effect would be ~ the w~nd ~n ~dmaqlng e~ker the re~or or wherever tko case may be but 14 irene D~ course having proeab!y the mes~ ~ffect. This happens to he ~n a fairly 15 agrar~'an ~rea. there are some houses around le they are some il~ance ~way. I assume 16 that probably may be one si the reasons wNy you selected this sar~icular ~e. 17 BOAR~ XE~_~R DRLANDC ~hould ~ave a wind seeeds cutef~ 18 HR. DOUG~ERTY: Yes. CHAIRWOKAN OLIVA: You know the 19 winds eue here especially this eas~ year has been one Df the wlxdlesz years have 20 remembered H~. DOUGHERTY: i~'s ~rea~ for 21 this demonstration program. CHAIR~O~AN OLiVR: ssk you 22 about th~s iemonstratioe psu re hav~nc c~h~r enos fuel rails and wha~ have you ,s this 23 take the ~lace even~ual!y ef sure,nc up another ~enera~ng pianrP 24 HR. DOUGHERTY: Yes. Our chairman has publicly ~hed hhst the iemand for 25 electric~t~ keeps ~rowlng every year ~n land caeab!e of s~t~no sen~r~.~_o_~ As often December 18 2 1 2 difficult. This is eno of the programs to dovetail and offset having te de some ef that 3 as well as our ether programs. One of the main aspects of demonstrating technology like 4 this is to educate ourselves as a utility, how does this impact our grid, and that's the part 5 that we're learning tee. Also various municipalities hew they learn about this and 6 how we can see if this is feasible and install this technology. 7 CHAIRWOMAN qLIVA: Is the other wind turbine ena farm also in Calverton? 8 HR. DOUGHERTY: Yes. MS. HINTZER: Every site looked at 9 was a farm site. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: What de they 10 grew? MR. DOUGHERTY: They mainly grow 11 beans; I've seen cauliflower, squash, zucchini. 12 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: I was wondering whether it would have a beneficial effect of 13 keeping some ef the birds away from the vineyards. I don't kRew. 14 HS. NINTZ~R: I want to address 15 birds for example, wherever their{ are, unless 16 there's a particular species that isn't here, that analysis is similar for each turbine, but 17 the noise has specifically been tailored for this site depending eR receptors. 18 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Because we have just a small eno, i live in Orient. We 19 had a small one on ue on the North Road and they are noisy. 20 HR. DOUGHERTY: I don't knew which models you've had. 21 CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: it was small, believe me. 22 BOARD HEMBER GOEHRINGER: Ha'am Chairman, I would like to leave this hearing 23 with the ability to have a scheduled appointment from these very nice people 24 preferably ena Saturday because the daylight situation is net great. We're ciese to the 25 shortest day of the year. And go down there and see that in operation? December i8, 2003 9O 2 HR. ~OUGHERmY: The eniy downside can say you ?a~'n schedule nne wind 3 CHNiRWOFAN D~IVA: Ihst s r~ue EOARi I{~P,.~mr. ~CEH_~_X~_I{: Nc hut 4 knowing it's there maybe we can the hes~ w~!l allow us zo come dcw~ an cerua~n ulmes 5 when une ~ihd is blewinc v~gorousiF and when the wind is blowing lightly 6 BOARE MEMBER TORTORA: How far ~s the turbine setback ~rem Hain Rc~d? MS_ MiNTZER: think ~t's 600 fe~. ~ BOARE ~E~BER TORTORA~ The site plan they have ~s non referenced on uhe s~%e ~ plan? MS. HINTZER: ik's actually 1{ discussed ~n the EA. it ~s -- actually ~t's a little mere than 60{ 11 KR. M~A~L±aT~R: M~ name ~s J~m McAllister. I'm the enviFonmental 12 with AKRF. BOARE MEMBER TORTORA: in looking ii au the parameters under New Yc~k e well as the ~ocal zonlEc ore!nances as Jar is ~ - 14 with reonrds zc rne special exce~E~en s couple of thzngs that are o! 2oncern re me. 15 One is. you know you are reos. esELno a variance the variance Is suosra~tlal_ There 16 ms going nc be a v~sual ~meack ~here's nc cussezon abcut %hat. Some of --y coileaoues reasonable and i think we wanm mc know ~bout 18 ~hat. Yes ~t's a new pro]ecu yes beino promoted that's ~il Eno more reason why lff this pro]ocr be a goos }ne and before we go forward w~h ~r, that we make sure .hat 2C some~h~n that's ~olng mo De comeaeible w~ the commun~ny. And my 2oncerns are ~he vmsual 21 zmpaCno would like re knew weuid like mc be able ~o Love you mFrereose what this is 22 going ne look llke. MS. KiNTZER: ~CA~L~o~ Tan we gz £o 23 MR. v T first? 24 BOARD MEMBER TORTCRA: Yes that's what that is. -= we ge north re the 2E ra~iroad tracks you l~e NOL tee! nhat ther~ would be any advanuage Df lec~rLnc turther ;fl 91 i 2 Hain ROad? MS. M!NTZ~R: Well, the 3 development rights of Let 20.2, I think it is, have been soid~ That's why we're locating it 4 at the furthest paint back en Let 20.1, but we can't locate it on 20.2. 5 BOARD HEMBER TORTORA: That was my main concern. 6 MR. MCALLIST~R: Again, far the record, my name is Jim McAllister, i'm with 7 AKRF. Geed afternoon, Chairman, Members ©f Beard. I just want te briefly touch en the 8 visual impacts and the issues that you raised. He recognize the visual impacts can be 9 somewhat subjective. However, far the analysis that we did in the environmental 10 assessment, we used guidelines that were prepared by the New York State Department ef 11 Environmental Conservation, which were designed te kind ef remove some of the 12 subjectivity from visual analysis. What it ioeks at is use in the area, perspective, 13 nea_esh sensitive receptor, similar types ef facilities, and based on that analysis, it was 14 determined that there weu!d net be a ~ significant adverse impact, and I have some photo simulations that we can shew you. I don't know where te put these. 16 As we said, the setback is ever 600 feet, this is the current view, ever 600 feet fram 25. 17 The col©rs ch©sen would be light gray, light blue te blend with the sky. Again, that's 18 photo simulation. This is the perspective lo©king fram tN© entrance looking kind ef 19 northeast from the driveway, again, this is that building, located there, it's kind ef 20 located up and ever. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: This is as 21 large as the eno in Riverhead? MR. MCALL!STER: Yes. 22 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRiNGER: Ceuid we see beth ef these? 23 MS. MINTZER: Just te let the Beard knew, they're also in your ~A pages. 24 MR. MCALLIS~R: Again, lo©king from the north, this would be the photograph 25 of the existing, this is the photo simulation adding what it weald leek like fram the ecemb~r 18, 2003 92 1 2 perspective of the north vmew~ 80AR~ MEHBER ORLANDO: What is }ne o blade lenc-t~l {S. HINTZER: One blade lenoth is 4 HR. MCALL!STER- When the blades ~ are spmnnmNg a£ the maxmmum seeed are They visible? 6 CHAIRWOMAN OLYVA: Hew large is this er small is this lomeared ~o some pi Ehe wind farms that are say euE mn laiifernia? HR. MCALLISTER: That s a meEr!c 8 !ar~er. That's ~ 900 KW ~r 1.3 megawaT~ Those laroer enos you probably have a vms-on 9 if mn your mind's eye This ms another prolec~ we have ouE there ~or ou~ offshore 10 wind prelecns. Ci{AIRWOM}~N OLiVA: Because Ive 11 seen those wind farms 2omlnc DUE ease f~om Sap Franolsco~ 12 HR~ HCALL!STER: They're ~ulre !aroe. I don't want rc compare mE ~oa cell 13 uewes wnmch I will non do_ But for 3erseecrmve the uower ~y the Southolc Police 14 Deparmmen~ which is muc~ closer To Ti~o road is svar !8( ~eet tall that s mc gmve you a 15 sense of scale. CHAIRWOMAN ~LIVA: Rignm mr 16 dues thank you BOAR£ MEKBER iRLANDO: What is the 17 ien~ nerm gaai ef LIPA fur this preee~ype experiment? 18 HR. MCALLiSTER: What we're hoping To ic ms aoamn, demonsmraEe wand technology, 19 ano juse me add someEhmnG for you 2elks rc think about histcrically~ wind turbines 20 windmills, waeem mills ~rmsn mills have been used mn agricultural use historically. Sc 21 that's why we feel it's net going ~c be incompatible with fern use if s been used 22 for ~00 years_ It s old mt's new BOARD HEMBER ORLANDO: Thls }ne 23 murolne is half a meoawaEr, right? HR. MCALLiSTER: No no, 50 24 kilowatts. BOARD KEKBER ORLANDO: Hew many 25 megawaTts? HR. HCALLISTER~ One meoawauT ms a December 18 2003 1 2 million watts, this is 50,000 watts. 80ARD MEHBER ORLANDO~ That's why 3 I was asking aieng term goal. So a small power station, such as Pert Jefferson, puts % out about 360 megawatts. You're trying to experiment te generate power, you'd have a 5 thousand of these out here te generate power to simulate a power station. Se what's your 6 long term goal? MR. MCALLISTER: I think if you 7 leek at where we started with our 10 kilowatt with a small wind verification program with 8 the Department of Energy, we have a turbine out at Southampton and one in Brookhaven, and 9 now this is a larger size, a 50K and then you look at our long term is Chat you're referring 10 te as power generation, a power plant would be our offshore, where it's i00 megawatts. Then 11 you ge up a metric into real generation. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I can 12 understand and we all knew wind turbines produce power, I didn't knew you were also 13 trying te produce power te run towns, and I don't think it's feasible, so I don't 1% understand your logic behind this experiment. We knew they work. J 15 MR. MCALLISTER: help me out here. 16 HR. TERRITORY: My name is Fred Territory, I'm with Key Span working for LIPA, 17 I'm the project manager for the project and also the Calverton project. 18 The essence of your question I think speaks te the issue ef why are we doing 19 this, what de we see down the read in terms of its use and in terms ef LIPA's use for 20 passible generation. The idea here is te demonstrate to people that these things are 21 compatible with their operations se that dawn the read they may elect to have some ef these 22 for their awn use. This is not something that necessarily LIPA is going te spread throughout 23 the system. That having been said, it's also that -- it's something that is also a learning 24 experience for LIPA as Mark alluded to. We're learning hew this interfaces with the grid, 25 the kind of impacts it would have, if any. We have underwritten projects fram NYSERDA, which December 18, 2003 1 2 is New York State Energy Research ~n~ DevelepmenE Asseciat_os associated w!fN ~ Calverton and skhsecuen~ iocarlons where we ere ?ollecting iata we are analyzing data, we 4 ~re reporting data and this infermatlon ~s ~enrlng tisseminated thzougNeut ~he industry 5 in terms of kinds et ~meacEs that may occur~ So it is a demensErar~on program, but i~ s 6 also pare of this R and D research and develepmenE and demonstration umbrella. Red this ~s sari ef the effort ~o learn: ~t's paru of the effo~ ~c iemonstra~e ~'s psr~ o~ the & affort ~c show people now compatible it ~s w~th the envlrenmenu That's the whole ~dea ~ behind this. That's one of ~he reasons we're ~eing through tPe process we're ~e~ng uhreugh 10 here. we wan~ the people ue be satisfied~ We wane people ze be accssz~no sf these kinds Df 11 things when they ~re installed, it's noz something that we wane Eo imeose ueen 12 people. That s the whole idea behind we re going through The erecess. ~e'd be 13 ielichted to shew you the Ca~verteP sperarIon. We e be leilghted rc answer ~ny lues£1oxs you 14 m!cht have any further uues¥~.ens. BOARD HEKBER ORL~_XDO: My last 1~ ~uesr~en is: Have vou looked inuo the }att of n~raulxg birds: ~s zh~s ~n ute paEh 16 nlcraElnc birds? MR. TERRITORY: Fha ~NswPr ~o that 17 is yes anott should se earr 3f Ehe EA. Ne had phs if the werids renowned bird experEs 18 speak ee that ~sshe zor us. BOARD HEKBER HORNiNG: That was 15 why was kino st ask~n~ about hew vlsible the blades were when thsy were reua~nc a~ the 2C maximum s~eed. 2an you imagine that a bird wil see this blade moving and avoid it? Is 21 that the reason wby there doesn't seem Eo se much of ~n incident on a ~lN~le s~e wind 22 generators? MR. TERRITORY: Net be~nc the ~ird 23 exneru, but havinc spoken zc the exeere i'1i just give you my take on what he exeiained 24 me. His explanae~on as ec bird lmpecu en w~nd turbines in cenerai ~ere thst when they ~re 2S more than 200 feet hicn and when they nave guy wLres supperz~ng Them ihat are more then 2C0 December 18 20C3 95 1 2 feet Nigh requiring lighting, that's when birds are impacted. The speed ef the blade in 3 the new technology is net one that causes any problems with birds. What happens is night ~ migration, and they don't see the guy wires, they're attracted te the light a~d they're at 5 200 feet er above level with night migration, and that's what kills the birds. And you'll 6 find dead birds at the feet ef the towers. Today, and I'll just say from my own 7 experience, with the Calverten turbine that has been operating ever a year, I have net 8 seen eno bird that had been impacted thus far with that turbine and its operation. 9 BOAR~ MEMBER HORNING: Is there actually somebody examining that site every 10 day? MR. TERRITORY: Not every day but 11 we de ge there periodically, we ge there fairly frequently, and there's no evidence ef 12 any bird damage er bird impact se far. BOARD HEMBER HORNING: An 13 authority here basically maintains that the danger for the migratory birds is in fields of 14 these wind turbines where you have a bunch of ~ them and the height and the lighting. HR. TERRITORY: Hany parameters that play into them, the number ef them, 16 they're in a valley, a migratory location a~d ether such things such as the night migration, 17 the height, the guy wires, the lights, these kinds ef things. 18 BOARD HEMBER HORN!NG: De you feel that this proposed site minimizes those risks? 19 MR. TERRITORY: Yes~ CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Basically you 20 want te get the public's reaction and acceptance if possible for more ef these if 21 they prove te be beneficial and environmentally acceptable and efficient? 22 HR. TERRITORY: That's correct. MS. HINTZER: Just like you had 23 referred to ether power cells, just like that, something that could be used by small groups 24 ef people around areas electing to use them. CHAIRWOM~N OLiVA: Just a few 25 years ago, everybody, LIPA, at least it was the government that really wanted a ie~ ef December 18, 2003 96 1 2 people to s~ these thinos in the back y~rd and a couple of peoe±e ~id and mes¥ Df cPem ~ ~ave ~aken !t lawn. KR. TERRITORY: lust ~c ex~a~O 4 upon what Karen had stated she's talkino about distributed generaEien which ms geuEmn? 5 away from centralized power plants Inue small individual powe~ nlanus, is more ale mind se~ 6 ucwaras the future with fuel ce'is. PV en people's homes and maybe some - I don E see that year we re going ac have ~ proim~e ef wind turbines. That's never ~elng ac wer~ 8 We understand that. and we knew ute community's never going ~o accepa that. ~mke 9 say, we're caking mu ~e £he nexE level leaking an the offshore. This ms an 10 eduuational iemons~racmon Now does lc witb the grid fo~ the '~' u~_!l~y, it's ver~ 11 lmporEan~ for us ac learn ahsuu that and also havinc the public acceDE this ~s alternative 12 technology. BOARE T~EHBEN GOEHR!NGER: Can 13 ask a Gu{ct ~uestlon? Over ~ne experience ol the one year that u'%at's exmsued mn 2aiverton !4 have ~ou had any major ~ompla~nhs from any conE.!guous properE¥ owner or any adj~cexn 15 prcperEy ewnersl MR. TERRITORY: I can honesE!y say 16 we're nov ~ware }f any ~ome_~mn~s that have come fcrth non rc us we haven't been made 17 aware o~ any. 2NAIRWOH~N CLIVA: Thank you very 18 much. MSs MINTZER: wane cc hand 19 ~h~ Board we faxed ~x lu~ affidavit e~ posu~ng. I ~lse have the original and i also 20 have the memorandum exDlainino wNy we chink we meet the standards for ~rann~nc this leiief. 21 2HAiRWOM~N ILIVA: Yes ls there anybody ~n the audience that would like 22 speak rAo~ sr aga~nsz this aeeiication? HR. ~iLLIES: Matt Sillies 23 general manauer for Peconlc Bay ~lery. We have a propewuy Wlhnln ~beuz 650 feet Df 24 Osprey s Demlnmon ~nd there's almost no cues~lon in ~y mind that ~hether a 25 residence ~xere ~ no residence ~nere ncw. Currently lohn SEenkowlnz ilves mn the December 28 200! 97 1 2 front of that property, and there's no doubt in my mind he will hear this turbine as it 3 runs. They run, from what I u~derstand from about ten, 12 miles per hour up to 1%hink 50, 4 then they have a break that kicks in and cuts off. So granted it might not be running when 5 there's 60 miles per hour winos, for I suppose safety reasons, but long before I can even 6 address the fact that the tower is almost six times -- with the blades -- six times the 7 variance in the Town code, which is significant, I think the picture leeks pretty 8 terrible. The idea that you're going to see this big wind turbine out there when you pull 9 into Osprey's Dominion, and when you drive by en the Hain Read of all places, I think Long 10 Island, at least the north fork to me seems like a peer place te put this. On the 11 philosophy ef it, it sounds like a PR campaign for me, especially at Osprey's Dominion, where 12 they'll probably get more bang for the buck because se many people will see it, and it 13 will give the perception that LIPA -- with all due respect to the presenters it will give 14 the impression that LIPA is going the environmental route and dein~hese things and 15 a lot of people may walk away/and say, oh, that's great. But meanwhile{ this en!y 16 generates enough power for 20 hemes. So in my mind that's less than 20,000 gallons ef diesel 17 a year. Se long before this power would ever get back te the grid, theoretically a house 18 could tap off that power on its way back to the grid, it would only get past 20 homes 19 before used -- it's used up everything its generated in a year. 20 In addition, I don't think that area is a good area. Obviously it's a not in 21 my backyard sort of thing. I may well have a house there within 650 feet of this thing, and 22 I don't think it serves the interest of the community and the Town, and I think it's a 23 demonstration of what LIPA wants te do out here where we live, for what? They last 30 24 years before they have to be replaced from what I had read en the website. The nine 25 units that I found en the website were located in Scotland, Siberia, Horocco, there was one December 18, 2003 98 2 !n BurlingEon that ! think was preEEy much there for industrial ~urposes for a pr!vats 3 company but the ~re first s'~e ieremos~ you leek ac the Atlantic Driext Company, thev 4 ~ are first and foremosE for very rems~e locaulons ~e generate a relatively small 5 amounE of power. And no~ only that the iasu thine I wanu cc dc Ls give LIPA access no 6 power that s desianed for people wnc wann uc be independene of a Large power company, ii 7 anything, I'i wane Eo see the County or the Pawn pu~ somethinc like ~hls u~ so that we can ~ perhaps take little areas that can generate Their awn area or ~reenporE. which nas 9 own power plant but ~ uhink ~t's mere PR chan anything. I think ~t's ill cence!vei, and I I{ £otally in~e the envlronmenEal raulonale bu~ au 1.4 mlii~on lollers fas fiv~ of these 11 things and this ~$ effsct demcnsErau~on chat they're ieing, that s over a quarEer mi!!ien 12 ie!!ars per unit which ioesn't ~eneraee enough power for 20 homes ~n a year. and spat 1! deesn'~ even coun~ the urencnLng for the road and possible varLavions of ~iecuric. We 14 ~lresdy have I don't ~now if ~nybody's noticed but i've lost power clnsuan~y. Se 15 already thsre are many lnverrupu~ens and this thins feeding the grid and hOE feeding che 16 ~r~d, ~nd ~he ~rans~crmers ehst nave ~c be built ~E the sase of ~es unlu on thau 17 properu¥, are lusE bverkill for R temonstration in bur oacnyard when Au really !E toesn't have -- au least no~ ve~ in Ry eyes any function ye~. I think it should be ~N a 19 larg9 f~eld where it's ouu ef slEe. think uhere's enough land 1n New York sraze uo 26 ~chieve that. Ani if the ~overner's sc iu I sugges~ he find some ouh~ic land uc dc 21 this sore Df thins ane hOC puE ~u sn the Hain Rc~d in 9 hamlet like Pecon~c Thank you very 22 much. 2HAiNWOMAN }LIVA: Thank ~ou. 23 Anybody else? Yes s~r. HR. HIDGLEY: l'n Bill ~iag!ey, 24 represen~ the William Buckingham es~e it has uen adlacenE acres }f farm lane nexu nc 2S ~hls situation. Not ~oeosed no wind 2enerauor cue i io no~ like unezr drawing en 2~c~mber ~8 200u 1 2 here. It seems to include my property. That ! represent, if you can see it, it's so 3 small. And it includes two ether pieces of property as if this was all a part of the 4 project property. I'll bring this up and you could take a leek and I'll point out what I $ mean. I'm not speaking opposed to it. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: On a larger 6 drawing it says "See detail 2 of 2," it's probably 100 feet diameter. 7 MR. TERRITORY: To scale you mean? CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: What does it 8 mean? BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: You can 9 have the circular diameter that you have on the wind turbine, but the diameter, according 10 to this gentleman includes part of this property, so the question is, what is the 11 dotted diameter indicate? (Off the record discussion.) 12 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I hope you didn't send this to all the neighbors. It 13 misrepresents it. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: You wanted to 14 ask? ~ BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Counsel, 15 can I ask you a question? Where do we stand at this particular time with the EAF with the 16 determination ef the Planning Beard and hew they feel regarding this project and so on and 17 so forth? MS. MINTZER: The Planning Board 18 just hired outside environmental consultant to review the large book that we presented to 19 you. They're waiting for you to take action before they can act. And we're waiting for 20 their consultant to comment on the EA before we can finish the SEQP~A process. 21 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: So we have to adjourn this to some future date until the EIS 22 is completed, the Planning Board reviews it, we review it, what have you. 23 MS. MINTZER: The EA right now may be the end ef the envirenmentai review, it 24 depends on what the Planning Beard's consultant thinks ef it. We want te have a 25 chance te hear their comments, respond te them if necessary and then proceed te make our December 18, 2003 1 2 determination Df significance either ~ pas dec or a neg dec. T~ we oo aneo iec that 3 will finish up the erocess obvlouslv and then you ii be able ~c make your ~e~ermlnanlen. 4 We're hoping that Nelson ano Pope that's the outside environmental consultant we're hoeln2 5 ze gee Their commenes soon, They ve been leaking a~ this for about a month already, 6 until January 22nd er the iSth. MS. KOWALSKi~ 22nd. CHAiRWOF~N DLIVA~~T~ will have be February, February 26th 8 MS. MiNTZER: ~anuars's fulll Okay, by then we ~rili have had their cemmexes 9 have had the opportunity ~o resoopd and possibly have finished SEORA. and ~ben we 10 ceuid jusu respond uo you au that hearinc. 8OAR£ MEMBER }OEHRINGER: -- between now ano then preferably in ~he ~cnth the January we i1 schedule an appe~nzmePu ~2 see vhe one in Calverton with one or ~wc of you7 13 MS. HINTZER: Liuda has all ~y cenzacz infcrmauzon nxd Hark can give hzs ~4 2ard ~s well and I see no reason why that 2n.h'z happen ~n January. 15 MS. KOWALSKI: Are you avaiia~ie any Saturday? 16 BOARE KEFBER ]OEHRiNGER: I'- available any Saturday in the late mornlnc 17 JaRuar5, only. The last ~uestmen I have is going 18 ~o be a quesuzen that would leao Hr. Gilley's s:~uaz~on of his res~zmeny, and 1~ that zs zs 2his an exnerimental turbine? is this beinc olaced there in em experimental 20 manner? Es lZ scmeeh±n~ ~haz is permanent? Is l~ somethino ~haz s soino ¥o zas~ 21 exlszence ef the value ol ~he generanor itself and then be reolaced? 22 HR. DOUGHERTY: In nerms of shelf life. it's noz an Aloha Be~a un:z. It's a 23 ereductien model that AOC maNufacFures. It s a working, very capabl~ device. As ehe 24 reference was made thes~ things are fairly hearty, and they'r~ used ±n an aczzve farm zn 2~ Kesav~ew. Alaska hhat tells you Now hearzy th{ machine is. Yes machines are subl~cr Decer. ber 1~ 2003 101 1 2 just like cars, te maintenance and repairs and what have you, but in terms of it being 3 experimenta- in the true sense ef the ward, no, it's s demonstration program, because I % can't stress enough, there's two components of it: There's an educational component where 5 we're learning as a utility, and public perception they're learning; municipalities 6 are learning hew te integrate this technology and t~at's the nature ef this demonstration; 7 you run this program, you take all these metrics in, you evaluate it, a~d see what 8 you've done, what has changed. And I tNink that's a very valuable program to do~ Maybe 9 the public won't totally embrace this technology, maybe this is net the end all 10 save-all. This is renewable generation, Nenfessil, and as folks are aware ef in the 11 general sense, that's what we talk about when we say renewable generation. 12 References made te PR, we have an extensive program. We just issued an RFP far 13 75 megawa~ts of energy efficiency offshore wind project~ commercial-type project fe-~ 160 1% megawatts, maybe many things %ren't seen, and maybe we don't do such a go%~ job ef putting 15 it out tNere. / BOARD HEHBER GdEHRING~R: Let's 16 assume Mr. Gl!lay's net putting words in his mouth 'caese he's here and is correct, based 17 upon the EA that it has a visual impact, the tara! cast to this plan is hew much 18 approximately te construct this? MR. DOUGHERTY: About $250,000. 19 BOARD HEMBER GOEHRINGER: Se basically could we put a ten year time limit 20 en it saying that it would be used up within ten years? 21 HR. DOUGHERTY: i think we put a 20 year time limit en it. 22 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: But at that point at that time all yol have te do is 23 replace the generater. MR. DOUGRERTY: Replace the 24 generator, remove it. MS. HINTZER: Renew the lease. 25 MR. DOUGHERTY: There's a whole contract involved here. December 18 2003 102 1 2 BOAN~ ~EMBER iOE~RIKGER: That ~he lease cap be !imi~ed ~o ~he amount ~f rmme 3 ~ha~ we Give yo~ pe~m-sslon ~ Nu~ ]~ there. HR. DOUGHERTY: The lease ms % already ~n elace with ~ne hast. BOANE HBHBBR IOEHRINGER: That s a 5 20 year? MR. DOUGHERTY: 20 years 6 BOAN£ MEMBER TORTDRA: The oeestion I had ~s when you were dissuss~nc the applicable criteria for revmew~ng you fa~riy re~erred ~e the preferable sea~s that 8 public utility ~s awarded but you've iusr said chis ~s a demonstration ~rolecr; sc !'m a 9 little senYused. MR. DOUGHERT¥~ it's more legal as 10 a public utility we 2an claim exeme~men and therefore nee have ~c ~0 through ~ erocess ~s 1! th~s. ~e chose no~ ee ie that ~n ~hms sase~ MS. MiNTZER: And the reason zs as 12 par~ of the demonstra~o~ ~IPA wan~s ~o be s~ruaned ~n ~ place that hopefully thinks rh~s 13 is a good ~dea and that s why we wane ~c ~hreugh ~his process end Pechnicall} ~ 1% ~ublic utility s~rucnure- does mae answer yeu~ question? 15 BOARE MEMBER TORTORA: No you made reference before w~en gAvlN~ your 16 opening remarks you ~aie reference rc the ap~iicable seandards under ~e law as a public 17 utility. HS MINUZER: Nc I mean~ far you ac~ino within your iiscretieR 18 gran~ these proDosa!s. CHAIRWOMAN DZiVR: Nc further 19 ~ues~ons BOAR~ MEMBER ~RLAKDO: No further 2{ Gues~ens. BOAR~ MEMBER IOEHRINGER: I wanned 21 you ~o be ~war~ Mr. liliey, that ~avbe you should be ~ware }f the res~rmcrmen 22 HR. iILLEY: They hope that serves as ~ iemonseras~oN and that 1~ does 23 kick back ~o the orid and 20 houses as temonstration foe power when ~s first and 24 foremost design ~s fo~ pr~va~e remo~e ioca~es ~er power i'i rather innate space for the 25 Fown ~o see ~hem generate nheir own eower. ~OAR~ SEKBER iOEHRiNG~R: The Decexber 18 2003 103 1 2 reason why I bring this issue up and I'il bring it up, this Town, as you know, far the 3 people -- please, this ~s net a sarcastic statement to anyone that Nas Ret lived Nero ~ far mere than 20 years -- this ~eard t©ok an initiative more than 20 years age te remove 5 all the billboards and they gave them five years te de se. How dues this compare to 6 this? A billboard is a similar situation, it gives advertising te businesses in tewn~ 7 Again, I don't knew if 20 years is a lung time limit regardless of what the Nest Nas signed. 8 CHAIRWOMAN O~IVA: Hake a m©tien t© adjourn this hearing until February 26th at 9 1:00. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Second. 10 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Ail in favor? (Whereupon, all Board Members 11 responded in favor.) 12 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Hr. MR. CALIENDO: I've conferred at 13 length with Hr. Alice en this issue, and it appears that t~lere was a misunderstanding, 14 whatever you want to refer to it, with reference te the degree ef work that was 15 encumbered within the variance. If this gets toe wordy, I've get his approved plans and 16 I've get the alternative set ef plans se we can get it right~ The essence ef it is, we 17 are doing the majority ef the second fieor alteratio~ work on the east side of the 18 property that's where the physical structure assess we're adding habitable space is. The 19 work on the west side of the property amounts to nothing mere than a restructuring of the 20 reef. In ether wards, it's a gable-shaped roof. The intent was to raise that roof, the 21 height of the roof in order te make the reef pitch match the adjacent work that we're doing 22 on the other structure. Again, it was not habitable space, it was only a roof 23 restructuring. That result - and we were under the impression that despite the fact 24 that that created a nonconforming aggregate setback that was still part of the approved 25 building permit and we conferred with Mr. Alice and confirmed that that's net the December 18, 2003 104 1 2 case That roof reszruceurlng was indeed sueposed mo be pare of the variance 3 eroceedin~. Sc ,hat's the essence ~ in -f ycu d like me ~o ~c forward w__h the 4 presennaeion zn that reoard, wzi! but don'E know where we take !E from here. Dc we 5 shew you what we proposed ~c do on the ~ide? BOAR£ MEMBER TORTORA: Yes 6 because mhis morn!ng you were leading us re believe that th~s was only fur a cazebo. ANd that's why we asked you 'ac go back. MR. CALIENDO: ~gree ~ BOARr MEMBER DRL~NDO~ The original plan which you had nhe buiidlnc 9 eermit for didn't. HR. 2ALIENDO: Didn'E include the 10 reef on the wesE side. I ii ~½ow you. HS. ROWALSKI: 2an we have the 1! dates of both p!ansl MR. 2ALIENDC T~_e approvals. 12 BOARE MEMBER TORiORA How ~md they calculate that you re uneer let 2overage- 13 where did ~he 2a!cu]aEmons rome Eroml MR. ~ALI~ND~ We did ~hem the .~et 14 area plus =cur BOARr MEMBER TORTCRA: Df what's 15 exmsmlng or ~dding hhe ~azebo? l_e 21 pe~cenm includes ~h~ g~zebe7 ~6 MR. iALIENDO: Yes that everything. By mhe way, the house ~ppimca~on 17 itself the house unere s nc ~dd!tienal lot coverage. The~e plans ~re laEed ~ 25/03 18 That's the most - that s the approved plans from the Town Ehat's bur mosE renenu date ~ed 19 ~he proposed this Is wha~ we were ho~ng nee approved shows mhe variance additmon 20 9 19/03, and the permmu was issued mn May. Sc that's the essence of the misunderstanding 21 with Mr. Alice and as a result we're goang have ~o have uc ~perove uhat as parn of our 22 variance. BOARE MEMBER TORTORA: Th~ 23 varzances lot coverage lecamie~ the gazebo and the addition en uhe side yard~ Three 2% variances correct? ~e already wen~ through one varAa~ce and we know wNa~ the snory is 2~ uhere. BOARE MEMBER DRLANDO: We havc Decer~ber 18 200i 105 2 amend the application for the other variances? CHA!RWOHAN OLIVA: It's right in 3 the Notice ef Disapproval. it reads correctly. 4 MR. CALIENDO: It reads correctly. 13 our conversation that we had with 5 Mr. Alice, which we misinterpreted, we thought that the reef variance was not required. 6 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: So we're clear en everything up te this paint and new 7 we're at the third variance. MR. CALIENDO: Yes. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I have no objection te it because essentially you're going up. MR. CALIENDO: We're net adding 10 any floor space. It's purely an aesthetic feature te change the reef feature 11 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Close this hearing reserving decision until later. May I 12 have a motion? BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: You get 13 it. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Second? 14 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Second~ CHAIRWOMAIM OLiS,~: So moved. MR. CALiENDO:/ What is the next step after this; you're g~ing to notify us? 16 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: We're going te have another meeting two weeks from now and 17 then probably at least a week after that. MR. CALIENDO: Shculd we attend 18 that meeting? CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: That's up to 19 you. MR. CALIENDO: We won't receive 20 notice? BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Don't you 21 have to resubmit the ether plan en the gasebe on the ether side? 22 CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: That's right. MR. CALIENDO: This morning you 23 indicated you didn't want us to resubmit. MS. KOWALSKI: We need it for the 2% permit. CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: i'm sorry. 25 MS. ROWALSKI: You need to give a revision on that, please. December 18, 2003 10c 1 2 CHAIRWOMAN DLIVA: Just ienied the !ocatLon Df Phe gazebo. ~ MS. K~A~KI: Vcu rOOk acrloF OX le ~lready before the hearing was finished ~ only the side yard addition that you're addressino. So lU s only rwc variances. 5 HR. CALIEND6 : We weu!O revise the drawings ue move the gazebo sc hhe minimum 6 side yard setback would no longer be ~x ~ssus, only the aggregaue side yard seEback ~s an issue and the lot 2overate as an issue Those nwo variances we ~] sdb.h=~ hhe Fevised plan 8 you prior Ec the hearing in zwo weeks? CHAIRWOMAN 0LIVA: Yes. 9 MR. CAL!EN£{: Will we receive noElce of the RexE ~eeElng? 10 HS~ KOWALSKI: We're ~iv!ng notice ~hat the nexE meeELn~q !s January 9th. 11 2ali us yen're welcene vc cell ano i'!1 veil yDu more about 12 PR. CAL!ENDO: Thanks very much. 13 CHAiRWOM_Ai~ OL!VA: The nexz hearing Stanley Ha!on Number 5383 which is 14 carried over from our las~ meetinG. ?~s. Moore. 15 MS. KOORE: Good ~fternoon. Jus~ some housekeep~n? 1Eems ! aDo±oglze, I jus~ 16 coo the slue plans eno I wasn't sure i~ you wanted Ehem ~n your N~cke~ or I woulo subm~u 17 then ue you now. I gou uhem back and i submie~ing enem ue you now 3N uhe recsrd, it 18 is a si~e alan update !gted 12/11 03. %nd these SlUe plans have ac~aily ~one - ~caln 19 as always ie iny new revised s!~e plan I g~ve eo ~he Planning Bc~rd tom hheir review- 20 they asked me to lo-ward ~e Ec hhe DOT. The Planning Beard R ~ae already torwarded the 21 erevlouS the September slue plan ue the DOT as well se everybody s geu~LNg these uedated 22 sine ~ans, but ?hroucn ~'ne s±ue plan process tkere s also tweaking going along. Se 23 original plan, the placzmenu sf the bui!ding~ everything is ~n the same piace~ zm s 2% engineering ~nd it's d~z__~g~. The mssues are primarily engineering issues sun I m keenino 25 you informed of ~11 the revisions as I go ~hrough So ~et me ~ive nnose mc you December 18 2003 107 1 2 (handing). CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: But you de 3 understand that we will not have time to review these? 4 MS. MOORE: Really they are issues, as I said, engineering issues. The 5 town engineer gets the site plan and it will address any water runoff, any issues that he 6 feels are important. From the testimony that was put en the record from thank you, 7 Mr. Glever and Mr. Kalen were very helpful with Hr. Gephart, they were out on the field 8 for a good hour after the last meeting and historic their history, they walked through 9 the property and gave some recommendation with respect te the drainage that occurs off site. 10 There are some problems for water runoff that comes from the farm fields and in the back, 11 and hew it cresses the property. And quite frankly, if you weren't a long time property 12 owner there, you may net knew that the nuances, the intricacies of where the 13 drainage, the water runs. Se it was very helpful. ¥ told them thank you and certainly 14 Mr. Gephart was very appreciative of that. And that meeting culminated in engineering 15 changes that were put into this site plan. So that being said, we'll proceed with the actual 16 issues before you. There are two issues that are 17 before you. One is the 60 feet rule and the ether issue, which I think is really crucial 18 and has far reaching impacts in the way the cede is interpreted and hew legis!atien is 19 adopted here in the Town ef Seuthold, there are standard rules that are recognized in the 20 law with respect te how statutes are te be read and when you're writing them and they're 21 written by lawyers most likely with some help from staff but essentially it's written in 22 such a way that when generations from now when someone leeks at it, they understand, given 23 the rules of construction, how they are te be interpreted. 24 I've given you and submitted prior te this hearing, my memorandum with respect te 25 the interpretation of the code and with respect te uses listed in this instance in the December 18, 2003 ~08 1 2 business seoken zenlnc listrict but it iees apely ~hro~gnout ~he 2ooe in ©~her zon~nc ~ d!s~rlcEs. And speci!ically code is specific as ~c s size o~ nne ereperty 4 and the ese ~ven the s~zs of ~he preperhy, nhat }verrides the ~enerai~ When the code 5 does no~ speak w~hh respecz tc that limitation you're ne~ 6 Zon~nc as a ma~er af law is a restriction on people's preperty~ So it's nc bes~ch±y~' lonsn~uedo And with reepec'z the bulk schedule I've written it ~ don't wane re bear the po!nE any ~ur~be~ CHAIRWOMAN DLiVA: Don't reeeat~ 9 KS~ MOORE: buE ! think ~ ~s very 2!ear. once I pointed DUE Eno statutory 10 ~nstrucElens as well ~s the general way ef ~nter~meting the code. I think ~ e pretny 11 clear how the ~ode should he ~nnerpretee~ I would hope that you would clarify for the 12 Bui!dinc DeparnmenE hew the code should be read. 13 CHAIRWOMAN DLiVA: Taken under 2onsideration. 14 MS. MOORE: Tkank you. Dc you /have specific ~uestions w!tk reeards to hhae 15 zssue or sheuid I j~sE 2o forward? CHAIRWOMAi¥ ~L!VA: Nc 16 2onrlnue MS. HOORE: Okay, hank you. 17 ~rs. Oliva you raised ~ ~uesmlon }r a paine last ~mme which we wanted 18 address ~ry ro ~ddress your yDu re the only sne who voiced this but maybe the embers iS were hhiNking ~ as well which ~s ~he volume Df ~he building, how bio zz ~s. 20 CHAIRWCHA~ OLiVA: Yes. MS. MOORE: What i d~d was I 21 ~sked Mr. Geehart ne piesse g!ve me a very simele and I en!v have ~nree ~e !~cu 11 22 have ~c share if you pull ~ out ! nave a 2opy. As you can see we dc a renderLng sc you 23 ~an see what the building will ultimatei~- CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: Am I ccrrecm 24 that ~t's a~oun 18 00C s~uare feet? MR G~PHART No -t's about hslf 2~ that. MS ZOORE: I'll eezer s~uare December 1~ 20.03 109 2 footage and reading. When you ask the questions, let's talk about the base floor; is 3 that what you're asking? Because you never knew, are you talking basement? 4 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Not basement. HR. GEPHART: Want me to explain 5 it? The buildings themselves are 38 by 105. There are two buildings that rUN parallel te 6 each ether. The total ef the two buildings, 8,616 square feet. There is a second level, the mezzanine. The mezzanine is set back and it connects the two buildings, and that's 880 8 square feet, that's the only second level. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: That's the 9 only thing on the second level? MS. HOORE: That's the e~ly thing. 10 It's the owner's office. Te have ensite management, the owners want to be there and 11 they want te manage the property, make sure the tenants, everybody's behaving. And what 12 tried te do is I knew the -- MR. GEPHART: This is eno 13 building, this is the second building, and it's open in the middle. Halfway through and 14 20 by 20 (indicating). HS. MOORE: I~s like a little 15 hat. That was actually /n your office_ We just pulled it out. 16 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: I know. MS. MOORE: Thank you. I just 17 want to know we have it back. It's a very expensive drawing that they'd like to get 18 back. We can submit to you a print, so you can have that in your records. Not that's 19 valuable. I asked Mr. Gephart to give just a very simple no site, no engineering, nothing, 20 simple, almost like a silhouette of the structure, and you can see on the drawing how 21 we've identified where it is placed on the property. It is more than what is required 22 side yard setbacks. The code requires 25 feet on either side of the property as a legal 23 conforming side yard setback. We actually have 29-10, almost 30, but 29 10 on the one 24 side and 30 en the ether. Se you CaN see, we are exceeding the cede requirements with 25 respect to side yard setbacks. The front yard setback has 100 foot setback as required in December 18, 2003 110 1 2 the code you can push ~ioser as you know based on the ~verae~ ~etback cf adjace~n ~ eroeerE~es and we ~ctually 107 and a half 107.~ as a fronL yard setback The rear yard 4 we're 2ommi!anz but be didN'n give !E ¥o ms sun we can gee ~m mc yon mf we need mm. 5 S{ you 2an 3ee that the bumiding mtself maybe in the pmc~ure ~aybe me looks 6 large and because It's a lovely - mean maEmer of EasEe but it's a lovely surucuure it s going uc be a s~cnificant suruc~ure there but again in was modeled after uhe 8 uther buildings, there were this property is pare efa Ehree or four lot suhd±visien. 2we 9 of the Ehree have been [eveloped, thaE s Olsen~s office, the Wine Store 2ommercia! 1£ sender a~d then this e~ece As what s remainlnc. When we first beoan we came 11 looked at the other size p!a~s eodeled them so as to noe creaEe somethinc that was ouz of 12 character with thls commercial area. Fhat's what's Dean submitted ~o you. ~hat we thLnk 13 ~s a sEructure thae -s 2ompleteiy In cnaracuer with the Catchecue busmness iistrict that's 14 been develoeed wes~ of Eugenes. We hope that that aE least puue you aE ease with respect nc !S the volume ~n~ s~ze of the buildings. Again keee in mind _n s nnLs 16 mezzanine this secondary Dffice space that ~ma]i Dffice snace Yhat brines ~s xou 17 sen~ormLty w~th vhe cods because builiings are each 3~ feet in width sc we 18 woule 2omp!y with the 60 teat erovisien. Phe node where ~n seea~s Df the 60 foot ru_e nhat 19 rule ~s }n!y ~Dp!icable on one s~ruc~ure if you have a conElnUOUS sErucmure. The snly 20 reason this ~s 2ontznuous ~s because of }hat ~mall 2o~necz~on rlcqE ~n the celEer, it 21 makes the design better ir ~ves ~ better working design for the Dwner and eo take thaE 22 ~way I think would rerNsinly nez be architecturally eleasann. The architect may 23 have nc redesign 2ompleLeiy. it jasu won't look right. You'd ioek like uwc lono 24 buildings nexm re each oEner witheuu any real relationship between the mwo. That mezzanane 25 pu~s relationship romE~nuluy between ~ndependenE s~ruc~ures. Do yoo Pave aPy December !8 2003 ill 1 2 questions? CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mrs. Tortora? 3 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: No. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: i do. i 4 missed the previous meeting so the two lots that were finished, what is -- the adjacent 5 lots, what is their setback, approximately? MR. GEPHART: The building just te 6 the east shows on the site plan. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Te the west 7 would be the winery. MS. MOORE: He actually shewed the 8 location of the building on this site plan. Gary Olsen's office is about the same setback 9 as I recall. The parking areas are a little different, but the buildings themselves appear 10 te be all in line. Se we only show the eno here, I can get that information for you, 11 that's not a problem. I knew I had it the last meeting. It may take tee long te pull it 12 out today. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: That's the 13 only question. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: And your !4 parking would be in the front or the rear too? BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I do have 15 another question. MR. GEPHART: Front and the 16 back. MS. MOORE: We can kind ef walk 17 you through the site plan that was submitted te you. It hasn't changed with respect to 18 parking. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: i know it. 19 BOARD MEMBER ORLP~NDO: What is the status of yourself with the Planning Beard 20 on this project? MS. MOORE: They take in the 21 information and they will then forward it te the town engineer for comment and for site 22 plan review. They can't go much further without the variance being granted because the 23 whole design is premised on the width of the building er the two buildings and how they're 24 connected. So they can't move forward any more than just to refer it out and hope that 25 at least with DOT and with the town engineer that we don't completely change the design December 18, 2003 112 1 2 here. We paid The full fee. We've ~ven them the site plan They actually have ell the 3 Sl~ clans that you have in /our file 8~?no dx. dr t realize than the Seetemoer Ina was in ~ his file. He gave you s memo saying he ildn ~ have iE but he had it in there, it was 5 actually noca bio iifference. It was some changes ~e tPe front parking !ayeum which was ~ based on a conference ~ha~ we had a work sesszon_ So we did some nweaklng w¼at the parking needs would be. The maler difference here is we actually reduced tbe s~ze Df the 8 rescaurane. It's now one retail space, it's gezng cc be ~ ie!i limited use resnauranm. 9 Se that's juse amacEer el. ± think healmh deDarEmenz issues more £han anything else. 10 BOAR£ MEHBER DRLANDO: Mr. Dlsen's building and the ~ne Store approximately the 11 same size structures? MS_ MaC,E: Yes ~or Erie mosm 12 parn leu have all the slze plans :n your office but they're zomparabie 13 MR. }EPHART: I ~c HS. HOORE: The buildings rLght 14 nexE ~oor zs the one {¼at s probably 21osest '~ in line because it's muitiele occupancy, it's 15 designed similar nc the way we wanz hc Dperace and deszgn this ~ne. Gary Disen's office you 16 have multiple lawyers in 3ne ~de of zhe bui!dinc and i guess several ~ccounEanEs Dn 17 the ocher sc ~he ~ccu~an~s we don'm ~now how many you have but zE s reallv Ews ma]or 18 nenanc:es and it's an accounnanm eno lawyer. But s~ze-w:se we ?an ~ney're somearable. 19 BOAR£ MEKBER ORLANDO: Thank you. CKAiRWOMAN OLiVA: In srder ~o 20 pun parking zn the rear you're hOE gslna n{ have Ee mum fill zn the back there where ~ 21 drops off? MS. MOORE: Why dom'n ]'au answer 22 the eng~neerzng issue? HR. IEPHARI: Between the last 23 elme I appeared zn ~ront of this Board and this nzme Ive been aware that the wame~ 24 level is semewhaE hicher than the mes~ hole that we pa:e fas and had done. Se i did spend 25 a le~ of E:me with the gentlemen here had a good z:me az zm and we ~ound out that the Secemoer 18 2803 113 1 2 water level was Nigher~ Se what we had to de was te raise the grade ef the entire site. 3 The drainage still stays the same, tried to keep the drainage away from the rear 4 part. There is same cut and fill, like there's cut and fill en every project that we 5 de. In the center of the site the centaur shows elevatien areund 15 or se, cutting that 6 dawn te the back ef the site, we're geing te fill that in just a little bit. The actual 7 extreme nerth kind of stays the way it is; en the east portion there is some retaining walls 8 designed by engineers that we have te install te keep the greund and the water fram going en 9 t© Hr. Kalen's preperty. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: How will this 10 affect the runeff inte Route 25 and Cex's Bane? 11 MR. GEPHART: The cede in any town or village that I work an, the storm water Nas 12 to be centained on site and put into dry wells; that Nas been engineered on this 13 site. There's ne water that gees past the high point that's en the curb cut onto 25. 14 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Geehringer . 15 BOARD MEHB} GOEHRINGER: I have te think back to that ~earing and the only 16 cencern that I have is it certainly the new plan that yeu gave us shewing the buildings, 17 virgin, so te speak, and net necessarily all muddled within the site plan itself is a 18 little mere understanding. But ! understand alse there's a maximizatien in reference to 19 how narrow or how wide you can make an individual stere or retail establishment. I 20 was just wandering why you didn't try and elongate the building a little bit more and 21 give it a little mere side yard? MR. GEPHART: At one paint in time 22 in the eriginai design stage, first thing I de when I design a project, leek at the site, see 23 what the area looks like. I'm net that familiar with the town, se, please. But there 24 are buildings a little bit te the east ef us that have smaller buildings were connected, 25 and actually the building immediately - the public water, but the building right next doer December 18, 2003 2 has the same concemu that used on deveiopzng this p/ecu ~f properny and where there's two 3 buildings rl~rn-nc ssral!el rc eauh other somewhat sonnected wikh Er!mouth srruoiure. I 4 did aisc lay ou~ diiferent conceNr of longer buildings ano tried Es maximize and also ~en a 5 better arcnlnecnuram e~fecE e~ I believe the Ewe buildings that i have designed with nme 6 little piece in the middle. I think if yo~ look ~n ~he render/nc real close you see that will would leek much nicer than a lent narrow building maybe 2~ foot on o~e side and parkzng 8 en the other. MS. MOORE: Ac~aally~ mhe building 9 nc the west. the wine bui!d~n~ has a narrower hallway er open pathway benween and zE 10 actually from cemmen~s that I've heard from the renanns there, they say that Phat doesn~- 11 work very well_ It 2reanes awLnd tunnel effect, it's lark and ~enanEs Chat have 12 occumied zt for some time know the nuances of whether in works os deesn -. They recommended 13 a little mere smace zn ~he alleyway because me g~ves certain!v more ~Ght well the face !4 1s you ha~e the mezzanine !n hh~ ~nn~r pare sc that ze will be omen nc ~n~ ~zr zn the 15 first hew many_em ~ =~: MR. ]EPHART: The first zn the 16 rear 26 22 feet have a trellis then m½ere s a slight roof fha? [znches ue and !n 2onnec_s 17 ne the MS. MOORE: An Dpen concern works 18 better. 2HA!RWOMA1~ ~LIVA: Mr_ Olsen's 19 building ~s the same ~s yours7 KS. MOORE: Within feet E mean 20 ~t's very sc close whenher ~r s 2~ 3S they're ~11 very szmzlar ~n dimensions sc 21 MR. GEPHAR?: You can see on the s~Ee plan 22 ~HA±R~OMAN DLIVA: And the w/ne buiidins? 23 KS. M{ORE: The wlre that s probably c!esesn zn design~ As we said nhe 2s rental smace is very slose eo the one nex~ doer. It's jusz the wldenino es h~e Dpen 25 space benween zhe %we s~rucnures thst s been enlarged somewhat and t~af's based aoamN sn December 18 2© ils 2 just architectural design and use. CHAIRWOH~ OLIVA: Any other 3 questions £rem the Beard? Is there anybody in the audience that wishes te speak ~or or 4 against this application? MS. MOORE: His question is what ~ is the width of this lot. 150 feet. HR. KALEN: You're utilizing 148 6 of it? BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: How many square feet? MS. HOORE: The width from end to $ end? You have 30 then almost 30 -- 90. HR. KALEN: You get 20 feet 9 thereabouts? MS. MOORE: That's what the 1¢ buildings look like, would you tell us any -- MR. KALEN: Only using 14 feet 11 in -- MS. HOORE: Right, exactly. 12 MR. GEPHART: There's 30 feet basically on each side of the building. 13 MR. KALEN: I came up with 148. HR. GEPHRRT: It's net exactly 14 square. I think it opens up in the back a little bit, back is 156. 15 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Any other questions from the audience? If net -- yes. 16 Yes, Mr. Glever. MR. GLOVER: They're talking about 17 filling in for parking, that fills up the water en bad storms and backs up right towards 18 me. Se any fill they put in is going to eliminate where the rain water goes and runs 19 there. So because of all that building space and running the water off, they're making less 2{ place for it to go. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I think 21 they're supplementing that with leaching peels. 22 MR. GLOVER: The leaching pools aren't going te de too much because there's 23 only 28 inches te water. MR. GEPH~T: I think what we 24 discussed a couple weeks back, the water comes from the northwest and runs where my thumb is, 25 which kind ef runs past our property, en your property past the corner of this property and December 18, 2003 116 1 2 j~su keeps going. We re nee cbangmng their area here bu? lush picking this space up ever 3 here. We're ·om modi!ymng rhls an all~ MR. iLOVER: This hack here ms ~ me. MR. GEPHART~ That's you and 5 that's where mos· Jf the wamer runs This is all natural. ~ MR. ~LOVER: When the water comes mn you're high over here by about 4{ foot maybe. MR~ GEPHART: How many feet? 8 HR G~OVER: MR. }EPHART: I don't know about 9 40 if ye· leek am ~he grades here the existing grade, the new g-made ms 13 and 10 grade -s a!sc 13 so we didn'~ ramse this HR. GLOVER: But ever here 11 dre~s back mc a swamp and gees all th~ way back uo where the building 12 HR. GEPHART: NcE according mc the con.ours ~hat I gem. 13 2HAIRWOMAN }~IVA: Mr. 31over why ~on't ye· ]usz ~3 ouhside and axe!ann 14 MS. MOORE: For ~he Fecoro we recognize we have nc 2on~a~n all waee~ runoff lB on the sl~e~ This has been encineered for that purpose. Beth the DOT and new· eno~neer 16 are going ~o be very srrmc~ with us ec make sure that we comply with this. Really me~s mn 17 everyoody ~ lnzereeE r{ make sure ~hau water ms mainnanneo and Ehat the dry wei~s wor~ 18 because nobody wanes Tars 1N wames so. ?HAIRWOM~N OLiVA: We don · wanm 19 ~c see Mr Glover s propermy ao ©e K~nn Kullen's parking lot. 20 MR. RALEN: DaR Ka!en. ]us· wanm mc bring up mhe seine I don'h knew how 2] many of you traveled the read yesterday afternoon 22 2HA!RWOMY~ DLIVA: I did. MR. KALEK: When I say witNeu· 23 even building en that rcad we have a malsr preb!em there. When I say malsr, mm ms a 24 maler problem. BOARD MEMBER ORL~kXDO: The whole 25 ~own was flooded. I sou_dn't even gem Genovese. Decembem 18 20 33 1 2 MR. KALEN: This is censtantly, every time we get rain. I knew the state has 3 been eut. They have dene abselutely nething. Yeu get the same preblem en Pequash. 4 MS. MOORE: I knew. Te some extent I'm sure the state's going to use enr 5 preperty te try te s©lve their preblems as well, semetimes that happens. Even though it 6 is the responsibility ef the state to handle their ewn runeff problems, we can enly de as 7 much as certainly eur preperty can accommedate. 8 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Thank you, I'd like te clese the hearing end reserve decision 9 until later. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second. 10 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Ail in favor? (Whereupen, all ~©ard Members 11 responded in laver.) CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Se meved. 12 Recess fer a twe minute break. {Whereupon, a brief recess was 13 taken.) 14 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Our next hearing is Frank Ori~2~ Number 54%6, 15 cencerning a prepeseG dwelling at less than 35 feet frem the rear 16t line. Hiss Meore. 16 MS. MOORE: On this ene yeu do have, I have -- I'm sorry, Frank Capene here 17 whe's the architect, he's here with Hr. Orito~ If y©u have any specific questiens, I will 18 defer them te him~ What I wanted te do, eur adjacent 19 ewner had a variance as well, and I have a record of his variance, a little cenfusing 20 because the variance was granted but the heuse - the survey that I feund in the 21 Building Department records has a rear yard setback ef 14 feet. I don't know hew that 22 happened, but it's there, se I will submit it and -- 23 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: What was the variance for? 24 MS. MOORE: It was rear yard setback and I believe the variance was 26. 25 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: It ended up at 14. December 18, 2003 2 MS. MOORE: it ended up au 14 and Ncnestly den'n know how h-~ _ 3 an eld surve- . It g?v a bu~!dino }ermm¥. It go~ a 2C and ~z s over aha done w~tn. ~ut a~ ~ leas~ as far as the characeer of the area we have ~ neighbor whs has !~ feet from fha rear 5 prenerey line. which ms the same rear preperuy line which ms the varzance requesu we're 6 makin~ eoday. You're very ~ ~' ' - wmth Stars Road mu ~s an area CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Gett!ng more faml!iar every day. ~ MS. MOCRE: And I Know have had several aeelications en Stars Road for 9 va~ances. It is ~ common eroblem her~ because the houses even ~heugh they'~e noz 10 large, we did give you a d~awmng of ehe ipplicable setbacks and if we were uo apply 11 the 50 feet rear yard ~etback anO mn this case 1~ showed 4{ foot rear yard -- front yard 12 setback but I believe ~t's actually 3~ Yrext yard setback ns the sorrec~ cKe you woulon't 13 have very la~e building envelope. Se lU i©es ?reame ~ need ~or m varzance and certainly 14 that's why we're here today CHAiRWOM_~N OLIVA: That's your amendee i5 ~e plan, says 35 feet because the survey 'I have here says 40? 16 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: have 40_ MS. HO{RE: This one has 40 but 17 the iorrecr setback zs 3~ ~em~ based on nonconforming setbacks. 18 BOARD MEM~Ee GO~mmlXGER You mean e~eexlstlnG? 19 MS. MOORE: Preexmstmnc ~ - ~ o ~ ~s the appropriate. I 20 den'E believe Fha architect was aware Df the nonccnforming secElon of our code ~ the rime 21 se that was mn the ormoina! mpplication. It s 22 Ee mhe front yard. We chose ~o make the front yard confermino ak 3! but unformunaEeiy ~¥ 23 pushes us toward Yhe rear. BCARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER~ 2an 24 ask a ~uestion? ~S HOORE: Yeah~ 25 BOARD MEMBER XEHRINGER: len't know mf you were ar hhe hearinq hhls mernmng, Decemse_ 18 2C83 119 1 2 but I'm asking this each time we deal with either Gillette Drive or Stars Road and that 3 is, it is net the concern of what the applicant is applying for now, it is what the ~ concern is later. I am not inclined to gran~ any further rear yard variances for decks and 5 se on and se forth, and I need you to carry that te the applicant. I am only one person 6 on this Board, but I have te tell you that people have te start building ground level 7 decks that don't take up square footage, don't take up measurements, and se en and se forth, $ on a significantly undersized lots with reference te maximum size and width. 9 MS. MOORE: Right. When I first met with him I said, you don't want a deck in 1{ the back and he said, ne, it's just patio and grass. That's fine with him. Re wants a 1l front perch because it is a nice feature as far as architecturally and useable space with 12 the family. Excuse me, the circumstances here 13 for the deck for the trent perch is that he has eno sen he suffers fram handicap, and they 14 weuldlike to have just a living space, a nice place far Nlm to sit and vegetate, I guess 15 with the family. Se the design is set up, se that they have a nice living area where he car 16 retire, the family can retire out here, and yes, I have expressed my knowledge of the 17 Beard's feeling en variances, and this will be it as far as a variance goes. In the future, 18 we'll certainly, depending en who's sitting on this Beard, but if this Beard is the same 19 beard, you're less inclined to grant a variance for any above ground st-~uctures that 20 would be requested at a later date. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Can I ask a 21 question? CHA!RWOHAN 0LIVA: Yes, yes may. 22 BOARD HEMBER TORTORA: We had an appiicatien for a variance that leaked almost 23 identical to this this morning. MS. MOORE: The same street? 24 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: No, but the bottom line was this is brand new 25 construction, brand new lot, and the general feeling of the Beard this morning was December 18, 2003 120 1 2 identical te what I m gc!ng ~c say new that we would like ~o see you reduce thls. 3 You dc have ~ let of cppertunzt~es architecturally ~nd ~ Norms Dz desion ~o 4 achieve the beuefLts ~ha~ your 21dent wishes us to achieve without requlrlng a vsrAance 5 enae you're ~eekilg. It is a breed new loh_ The porch can go on the sloe As far az the 6 width of the house, you can reduce 1E. There are aioE sf opmzOnSo There are hundreds of designs. But ~s zu necessary mc have the degree Df var!anco you're seeking mn ENo rear 8 yard? MS MOORE: G~ven the fact than 9 sou have a ne~chbor aE 14 feet BOARE MEMBER TORT~RA Tha~ is no~ 10 lawful. MS. MOORE~ honestly dos'~ know 11 what's lawful Dr nee ~n that history belause the Board tid granE the variance sc 12 the width 9f the property, there ~as ho be a reasonable vartance granned. I could 13 certainly nave them discuss know when first s~m down w~mh the ci~enE I ask vhem 14 please shrink please eDnslder the m~n~mal variance a~d ~n tact we actually eliminated 15 the variance had the g~rage ss a detached garage; mhar would have recuired a variance 16 because ehe garage would have been Dn Eno side yard ir earuialiy ~n the rear yard partially 17 Ln the slde yard $Lven there s nee much et a rear yard here. So we Rc~uai~y eiLm~naved 18 that variance by that design that s be~ere y~u. My pozlcy -usu ~nowLng the Board is me 19 eliminate variances that aren't necessary have them ~o back and they have uaken s 20 time ~o gee ~o eh~s design and it's not significant request and please keep zn mind 21 that the rear properey here ~s ~ men acre parcel that actua_ly zsa house en the sound 22 and you Thew how long SEars Read _s. You have a house on the sound ~nd the properuy rnsN 23 abuts sm the rear !s ~ ioxg driveway that c~ves access 14 acres 2s the adlacenE 24 proper~y. Sc as far as your ~eel~nge ~th respecm to Gillette Dr~ve axd uno lmpacz sf 25 the character ef that area here you have SEars Road with an ~d]acenm rea~ yard property Decemoer 18 280! 121 2 owner whe~s not going te be affected at all. So you're really not !oeking at comparable 3 situations. And I would hope that when you're dealing with Stars Road, you do leek at what % the other hemes, hew the other hemes are being built. But the person in the bach is net 5 going to be affected at all. Keep that in mind. You don't want to penalize this 6 owner. CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Mr. Orlando. 7 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I don't see any handicap access ramps; is that required? 8 MR. ORITO: My son has learning disabilities. He can walk and function, but 9 he doesn't have full facilities~ He's 29 years eld, and he has the mind efa 10 year 10 eld. Se he's basically under my wing. However, he can walk and cl{mb stairs, se I 11 don't think we need a handicap ramp for him. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Okay. So 12 maybe we could lose a couple feet off the deck. Ten feet is a deep, deep deck that's 13 huge, maybe e little elf the back, we're shaving here and there. If we lose a little 1% here and there, we come up with almos~ 30 feet in the back. ~ 15 HS. 30's a little difficult to arrange in the back. 16 MR. CAPONE: Frank Capene, architect. May I ask a few comments? I'm a 17 little confused about 35 feet. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: You're saying 18 35 feet. MR~ CAPONE: Can you explain? 19 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: Ms. Moore said there was a 35 feet front yard setback. 20 MS. HOORE: I believe that en the nonconforming section ef the cede en size of 21 the let, you can go tea 35 feet front yard setback. I have te check the Notice of 22 Disapproval, here we had it at %0. If you could pull the house forward five feet, it 23 would solve many of our problems. MR. CAPONE: I wasn't aware of 2% that. I was given a sheet that shewed the setbacks and I think ie must be written 25 somewhere else in the zoning ordinance. I was net aware ef that er I would have pulled the December 18, 2003 122 1 2 whole house forward. BOAR~ MEMBER GOEHRINGER: That's 3 in the area where that houses are !n that general VlClni~y ~hat setbask exactly 4 MS. MOORE: Let s lust make sure the size ef this lot is 26 473 Et s lus~ 5 over. I stand corrected because it s over 20. }00, it's %0 feet. It's that 4?3 feet that 6 brings us sver the nencsnferminc reGuirement ~owever the adjacent proper~y the house ee the wNen you're facing on the left ~e ~he north ~s a~ 35 feet sc we dc nave the buildino 8 permit_ BOARD MEMBER DRLANBC This house 9 you iesicned is no~ a cookie 2u~ house~ It s cuseem designed. 10 MR. CAPONE: Et's cusEom lesioned se there s room ~c -- 11 MS. MOORE: Little eweak, if you tell us generally what you feel you would be 12 cemfortabie with can aE lease tweak him wish a size in mind -- keeping in mind 12 ~g~ln -- BOARD MEMBER DRLANDO: If we could 14 ie an elohE fook front eorch. And then less ewe three feet off the back somehow. -~ 15 MS. MOORE: den~t know the lntermer. He has the plans. 16 BOARD MEMBER }RLANDO: Actually, I ion't need ~e iictate how you have me dc this. 17 MR. CAPOXE: You're loekino for five feet? You would os 2om~ortab!e winh !~ that? CHAIRWOMAN }LiVA: More iS ~omfortab~e. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: We're 20 leaking for 36 ~eet in the back a little off the deck move lc u~. 21 MS. HOORE: That's okay. If you wanm nc give ~ generic variance for 30 feet 22 we 11 wer~ within that footprint. MR CAPONE: You need revised 23 irawlngs ~nd ficure sue at the nexE meeting? MS MOORE: Just a foetpr~nE. 24 MR CAPON~ You den'n need ~he whole packaoe? 25 ~OARD MEMBER TORTORA~ Exastly. We lusE neee Uo show. make sure. December 18 2C03 123 2 BOARD MEMBER ONLANDO: Our decision will say 40 foot front yard, 30 foot ~ backyard and -- MS. MOORE: That's fine. 4 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. GoehriNger? 8OARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: That's 5 fine. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Is there 6 anybody in the audience that would like to speak for er against this application? Hearing none, I'll make a motion te close this hearing and reserve decision until later. Ail ~ in favor? (Whereupon, all Board Members 9 responded in favor.) 1£ CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Geed afternoon, next hearing is Zeumas Contracting, Number 11 53%5. MR. AeNOFP: Geed afternoon, 12 everybody. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Geed afternoon. 13 MR. ARNOFF: Before I start, I notice that the wonderful secretary of the 14 Zoning Board who served so diligently all these years has made aR entry cn your calendar 15 for today, and I was wondering if it was directed at lawyers, because Article 5 says 16 possible execution session. Now, I don't know if that means if that's directed at me 17 indirectly er Miss Moore or perhaps Hiss Wickham, but I'll internalize that, and I'i1 18 be brief. BOARD MEHBER GOEHRiNGER: Aren't 19 you the past town attorney in this Town? MR. ARNOFF: Yes, I am. 2{ BOARD MEMBER GOEHRiNGER: Therefore it refers strictly te you. 21 MR. ARNOFF: Then I'il finish somewhere around quarter to 6:00. 22 Having said that, good afternoon. I'm here, eno, te sort of reiterate in part 23 what yen have in written form in my July 17th letter. The first thing, and it's interesting 24 in a prior presentation Miss Moore said zoning statutes are to be strictly construed. 25 Everybody thinks they come here for a variance, it's a rubber stamp. Okay, fine. December 18, 2083 2 Ne there s get ee be a valid reason juse kike with lot merger. ~nd the lode se~s up 3 four crleerla. And ~N my letter tc vou i've shown you hew they can ~ meet ~wc 4 them. Two sf the four are mmpos~ible rd mee~. Can we feel sorry for Hr. Zoumas? 5 Certainly we nan feel sorry for him he bought a pig in a poke. that's when happened He 6 should have don~ some things mn advanc~ perhaps nde that's nee my determination. The fact ef the mauEer is he's ~n a pes~ulon where he's created this hardship unuc himself 8 Had he come ec this Board had he made an application when he was ~ 2oRurac~ vendee 9 perhaps then he would net be a position he ~s having sDenu ~he money ena piece Df preper~y 1{ But I'm going ~c pass Dn that because I think what s lmporEanE Ed you is aisc Ed address the 11 issue of the ~dverse possession 21aim The adverse possession claim is 12 breucht utilizing ap~licabie law ~nd I will hand uu Ec the Board the decms~on ky the Court 13 ~f A~peals ma¥~er of Ray aga~ns~ Beacon HudsDn Mountazn CoreorauLon. have she 2o~y of i4 I% 5us~ basically ~utlines on~ of ~he more recent determinations ky our Court of A~peals 15 in regards no criteria. That property mn that ~uesulon was ~ summer properny. It iea!t with 16 ~ssues of whether khere was ~ 2on~mnu~ng eerlod with summeI home and 1~ leait with 17 a~her mssues bu~ there's some very language ambodied in that iecision which 1~ lirectly zmpacns Dh what the Winter!ings are iolnc with thezr adverse possesszon 21aEm. 19 New we know cerEa~n thincs tNat ~re inccntrevertib!e. !~ /uly 1987 the 2~ Wmnterlings boucht their preper~y In July 1991. the deceased Hr. Grattan transferred 21 his sen Wayne the parcel in cues~zen. And then believe zv was November of 02 -- I may 22 be wronc but sometzme zn '02 the eroeer~y was transferred nc Mr. Zoumas. There ms nc 23 ~uesnien that the lets mergee is a manner sf bur zonzn~ rode law. top't think there's 24 any ~ues~len about that these lets merged. The ~uesElons zs Did we acqu:re une~ by 25 ~dverse pessessLonl Well that's ~e~n~ te be for a Supreme Court judge ee decide December 18 2003 125 1 2 ultimately. Now, eno ef the things that I 3 think is net entirely clear according te our appellate courts, and, I'm sorry, I apologize 4 to this Board because ! don't have the decisions with me, but the issue that there's 5 a lis pendens filed and an adverse possession case pending is net dispositive. And I don't 6 went you to think I'm coming in here trying to sell a bill ef goods, I'm net. It's not ? finally dispositive. This Beard Nas the power to grant Hr. Zoumas's application, 8 notwithstanding the pending adverse possession case. That's a fact. The question is, is it 9 provident for it te do so? Is it a discretionary act that they can say, you knew, 10 Mr. Zeumas, finish your adverse possession case, and if you're successful cema back 11 before us and then we'll hear your application. You have that power as well, and 12 that was the purpose behind my sending your secretary initially a copy of the summons and 13 complaint in the lis pendens te indicate the action was pending, issue has been joined, 14 therets been a prel{minary conference, discovery has but we're still 15 talking a few . But what we have here is an application w'6ere this Board could act to 16 no avail~ You're going to split the lets to have us say a Supreme Court judge say we own 17 it. Se ultimately, what i think we 18 really Nave here is perhaps this Beard is in a position here te take the position te deny the 19 application without prejudice~ Mr. Zoumas prevails, so be it; if he doesn't prevail, 20 then this Board has net wasted its time and the taxpayers' money going through additional 21 work and Article 78 proceedings, or whatever else comes out ef this, that is totally 22 unnecessary. So that's why I'm here today, I think it says it simply. I would welcome any 23 questions from any members ef the Board en any issues I can probably address. 2% CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: Mr. Goehringer. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I agree 25 with you. MS. MOORE: Maybe you should hear December 18, 2003 126 2 from the rest of the ss~orneys in the room before you iecide. _~ CHAIRWOMAN O~IVA: iesided, lus~ waNn To know if they have an~ 4 ~ues~lons of Hr. Arnoff? BOARD MEMBER TOR~ORA: Nc CHAIRWOM}~ OLiVA: Nc quese~ens 6 MR. ARNOFF: Thank you very much. CHAIRWOMRzN OLIVA: Mrs. Moore MS. MOORE: I'm Dbviously nee in suppose ef that pos~u~en. Tc boole with. if 8 there is ~ merger ~ would have Dccurred when Daniel P. Grattan had the 2ommDn ownershle 9 between '87 and '91 because ~fter that both paru~es sold believing that they had s~ncle 10 and seearaEe preperu~es. Mr. Winterling goE a leu~ house ~h~nk~n~' ~ ~Nat's all he bought: 11 and Daniel S gave his preperEy Eo Wayne before he passed away beiievinc that he gave 12 his son a lot that could be built De. Sc ~he adverse possession may or may no~ erevail and 13 I have Hr. Sa! Antenacc~ who is the arEorney for the title company who ~s Dbiicated 14 bring the defense w~th respect zc un~s adverse possession i5 My obj~cslen ~s with his Hr,. Arn9ff suggese~ng uc you ko c!ese the %ear~c 16 or ieny the apFl~ca~on without preludice. believe that once you ieny an even thoug~ 17 l'eu're saying without prelud~ce we cen come back ~n and make the appl~ca~_er my concern 1} ~s ~omehow or ~nother s £ow~ aEsorney down the line is ~o~ng ye raise vhe Lssue that you 19 made th~ iecision ~ was final ~s was a denial and therefore we have 20 Article 78 with respecE se your decision-makinc. That ~s an issue that can be 21 brought and I've ~een all kinds of erecedural uses Dr abuses of proceeoings, don'E want ~±lent ~e all ef you believing 22 my ~'' based on what Mr. Arnoff s eemnson 2s that 23 this ienial will have ne ~2 ec~ en future either Mr. Zoumas Dr Hr. Grattan os anyone 24 else. I believe onc~ you make a decision Lt s final and binding even though you say 25 it's no~ ~ s without preluc~ce some back mn when this is all rese!ved. December 18 2003 122 1 2 BOARD HEHB~R GOd,RINGER: The other avenue is - and I'm not speaking far 3 the Beard, I'm speaking for myself - is very simply is to held the hearing in abeyance, and % quite honestly in either one ef those situations eno is legally able to be brought 5 in Article 78; the other one is it's held in abeyance until the judge makes the decision. 6 MS. HOORE: If you're inclined te wait ©ut the process, and I think you should 7 rule based on the fact that I disagree with Hr. Arnoff whether or net Hr. Zoumas has been 8 able te identify all of the standards of the waiver of merger. I think that we fit every 9 single one ef these statutory standards tea T. Se it's net -- se you could grant this 10 waiver of merger, and we ceeld proceed en with whatever Supreme Court battles ensue~ And 11 ~r. ~interling may end up with a lot er not depending en the success ef his claim. 12 I know that the courts Nave in the past when there's been litigation that's 13 outside, separate litigation pending, and I think Gall Wickham's here, the Zeupa case is 14 one, I was actually before the same judge, and he was beating me up with respect te making a 15 decision and whether er not your decision has any -- should be held up with respect to 16 separate litigated issues. And that particular judge felt that they wanted a 17 position from this Board. I think the Supreme Court 18 generally wants to see a decisioN. You should Net held ep your decisi©n-making based en 1~ separate and distinct arguments chat they may or may net prevail in the Supreme Court. I 20 would rather see it done that way. Bet if you are inclined te postpone the decision making, 21 I would prefer that you keep it open rather than deny with leave te renew or reapply. I 22 think that that's a concern ef mine that I don't want to find myself years dawn the line 23 after this is resolved and finding out I'm precluded fram coming back in. ~et's say the 2% code changes, whatever, we have an application that's still in effect. I don't want - maybe 25 they'll clean it up for the goad, but I -~ BOARD MEMBER GO~HRINGER: In a December 18, 2003 128 1 2 generic ~ense let me say this tc you: Taught by the ~ewn antorney, who was ~he hown 3 attorney from 195~ to 1988 we never never never held an aopi~cazlon ~n abeyance. _~ 4 was ~!ways denied without preludice. It was eniy ssmetime in the latter B0s. early 90s 5 Ehat we started that process. Only because. or many times. I won'T say only because, many 6 n~mes because, the applicants were probably net ready Ee cumulate nhe applican~on s? that there were exEenuanznc znrcumsnances which caused the Board ne hold the apelicat!en ~n 8 abeyance. That's lUSE pasE procedure. MS MOORE: uPderstand but 9 there's been a lot }f law that s occurred since 1988. And my concern ~s hew the leurt 10 ef Appeals have been rulino and findino this Board's iecision making, whether or nom hhat ~1 allows us Eo come back zn or non. Before yom make that decision think I'd like tc lcDk ~2 mnEe the beaks ~nd make sure that you're net inadvertently, kind cf sYoD ~he process ±eh 13 them battle }u~ some back ~n when you knew what you've gen. I uxderstanc log%call! that 14 ~a~es ~ense but ! don ~ wan~ legal sbstacles / having the Grattans have a ~ifferen~ lawyer lB come ~n and say, we~l. they denied without prejudice, but without prelud~ce lust like you 16 can't extend ~lmes for s~anutes of limitations even nhouoh that was sometxlno 17 that agreed beEween uno parELes. Dh abse!utely, gzve us n~me no make enls 18 decision give us name ne appeal. Those cases have clearly been thrown ouE and no no you 19 don't have that authority. I ien't wann Ehat situation ~o come up, some courn decidino you 20 don't have the authority Eo say we can 2oma hack in and make an application after the 21 title zssues are rese!ved~ Sc if you're inclined xc dc that. please 2~ve me a 2hance 22 uc check 1E eun or 2heck with your awn mown areorney. But we don r wane mo -- know 23 you're nan intending Eo hurt anybody here. lUSt den'E wane you nc inadvertently hurt 24 someone. BOARD HEKBER TORTORA: Must be 25 iaea ~n the afternoDn. I'm nor sure exacnly, what ~s 1E that yom want? December 18 2003 129 1 2 HS. MOORE: My inclination is that you leave the hearing epe~ for whatever period 3 ef time. Personally what I want is for you to make a decision on the Grattan case and then 4 be done with it. Winterlings can fight out whatever claim they want. If you don't feel 5 comfortable doing that, then at least leave the hearing open. 6 BOARD MEHBER TORTORA: Hearing open a year, two years, six months, ten ? months? MS. MOORE: Put on the record -- $ HR. ANTONACCI: My name is Salvatere Antenacci, A-N-T-O-N A-C-C-I, and I 9 am representing Zeumas Contracting Corporation and the State Court ef New York County of i0 Suffolk. The matter is Winterling versus Ze~mas Contracting Corporation, we have been 11 retained by first American Title Insurance Company of New York te defend Zeumas against 12 WiRterling's claim for title by adverse possession. 13 And I'm just here to state our position that this matter should not be stayed 14 as a result of the litigation ongoing at the not - it's not 15 it is irrelevant to the point of advers!~ possession by claim of title. 16 It is going te be at least a two or three year litigation. And it is our 17 position that ~he court will not make e decision until that time, and this particular 18 Beard should net be delayed with the decision for two to three years. 19 BOARD MEHBER TORTORA: It really must be late because somehow this is all 20 getting very garbled. The Board can't make a decision. 21 We don't knew if there is a lot. We don't knew the ownership ef the let~ Those are 22 facts that this Beard needs, in my opinion, in order to render a decision. 23 As far as Catterson, Miss Wickham had nothing to de with that case~ As far as 24 Catterson was concerned this Board made a determination, hut that is tetaiiy, totally 25 not related anywhere to what is happening here. What's happening here is we have a December 18, 2003 13C 1 2 wamver ef mer~er before us- wham's happenmng here Ks we ion'u knew who Dwns the lot ~e rc 3 ask us zo hold ,, ~n abeyance for Two years we re Net going ~c lo _. To ask us ~c Lrtake a 4 ietermination on what no ~rant the wamv~_ ~c who? 5 MS MOORE: you have Rn owner. Zoumas is an owner. The ciamm ms merely a 6 claim of title Am ms net a determmnam~on of Dwnership. You're presuming h~re that Hr. Winterlin~ is going mo wmn. BOARD MEMBER TORTO~A: I'm nee ~ making any presumptions. HS. MOOR~: You've accepted his S slaim as a fait accomplis. BOARD HEMBER TORTORA: Ne. I said 1£ ~ou ien'~ know. It's very difficult for us ~ this pomne uo follow along this ~rack. No 11 further ~uestmons Ha'sm Chairman I lone know where you want mc ge with this. 12 CHAIRWOMAN OL!VA: I rather agree with what you're saying, really de. I 13 ion'f want No see because if we hcid an abeyance ~t 2ould b~ ire or ~s years. ~he 14 Beard ~ouid be llf~er~n~. Theodore ne~ going te be familiar with uhe cmrcumstances. ~It 1~ would be much smmpler mc do what Mr. leehringer samd ieny with without 16 preludice - ~nd }r Hr. Arneff said then some back again. 17 MS. MOORE: Well ~ m_gnE hake more sense and I haven'e spoken with ~he 18 slient but we withdraw our applicaumoN so th~s Board Fhau makes there s no decision by = ~ . 19 more sense and ~nen we 2an argue over the Yitle. We wen'u have a decision ef this B{ard 20 hhat we have Fo worry about being bindin~ er ne~ kinding es whether or nee you have the 21 ~utherity me ailew us mc reapply. B{ARD MEMBER TORTORA: That would 22 make a lot more sense. MS. MOORE: This Ks ofi the ,on of 23 my head. I understand what you re trymng mc lo. Hy sencern is. I don'n want you makmng a 2% decision today, deny the application w~nh leave to renew or reapply, don m want ~o 25 creams uhat record today without an zppornunmmy uo leek mnmc ma. because I den'~ Deccrber 18 2001 13i 1 2 want all ef us te inadvertently preclude Mr. Zeumas from coming back in when he 3 prevails. BOARD MSHBER TORTORA: Why don't 4 you -- MS. MOORE: I have te talk to a 5 client. I don't have a client here. CHAIRWOMAN O~IVA: That's the best 6 suggestion of all. MS. MOORE: Thank you. I knew 7 that will make your life easier. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Why 8 don't you ask Miss Moore to make a decision by the special meeting. 9 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: January 8th. MS. HOORE: I just want to speak 10 tea cliemt, se -- MS. KOWALSKI: Unless it's 11 withdrawn after -- HS. MOORE: Sure, ! can withdraw 12 it tomorrow. MS. KOWALSKI: Se we should recess 13 this without a date. CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: Mr. Orlando, 14 did you have anything? BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: No 15 questions. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Arnoff? 16 MR. ARNOFF: I'd like the record te be clear. I'm wearing a couple ef hats 17 here. ! represent the Winterlings in a litigatioN. I also represent the Grattan 18 family and the Winterlings in their eppesitie~ te the -- net the merger issue. Se I'm here 19 in a sort ef dual capacity. So I don't want the Seerd te be confused. But i agree with 20 what Hs. ~ertora said and Mr. Goehringer said to hold this in abeyance and unresolved, 21 you're absolutely correct; we could be dealing with a wh©le new beard when we come back here. 22 What is the purpose ef holding it in abeyance when it could be denied without prejudice and 23 we'll burn the bridge if and when we have te burn it, and we'll deal with the issues of 24 whether er not the let remains merged or doesn't remain merged and the equities that 25 are involved in that argument at a later date. That makes the most sense. Should Miss Moore December 18, 2003 132 1 2 2hoese ~o withdraw that's her choice of 2ourse. That s everybody's rmoht re dc but ~ ultimately, i think ~be Board is left mn sort Dz -- you 2an obvious-y Ko whaz~ver you 4 like -- but I'd like ~c point euu you can actually make me be ~uleu which ms what 5 you've done for years -- one ef the interesting thin~s that you might wane mc 6 2onsider is think abo~t this you approved Mr. Zoumas~s applicati}no W~ filed a~ Artmc!e 78: we now have dueiinS we have a lawsule pending and an Article 78 proceedinc. Really ~ having no relati~nshmp ~c en~ another but relating uo the same piece of ~reperey. W~ 9 end up with mwo Suereme 2ourt judges ~akinc a decision that weuid somehow }r ether make no 1{ sense a~ ~11. and we would avoid ~axpayer money in tefending an Article 78 preceeding~ 11 2ounty money and wasmmng ludicial ~ime and going through all this me a needless Article 12 78 proceeding. We all cempia~n about lawyers and !itig~emon and expenses here s a way uo 13 short cmrcumu a lot 3~ this for the Beard r~ msKe ~ 0rudest econom!c Exinc saying, stop in 1% nero we'll gmve you leave rc reap~iy. And ~ I 1i pu~ ~ stipulation on the record now as 15 far as my clients ~re soncernel, we wail sensider mhis w~hheut prejudice and w~ will 16 nom raise the issue Df a ~r~or proceeding brought. That solves her problem. ! think 17 the maeeer should end today ~hether it's lena by way Df withdrawal es lena by way of ~he !6 ienmai without preludice of this Board. Yhat makes the mosu sense. Now I'v6 ~aid all I'm 19 gomng to say today. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: is there 2{ anybody that would like ~e speak on this applicatisn? Hearmnc none the Board's 21 pleasure ms uc recess hhis hearing until January 8th. 22 MS. KOWALSKI_ Without a date. MS~ MOORE: By January 8th I 11 23 notify by January 8th. BOARD MEMBER GOEHR7NSER: ~here's 24 a gentleman has a quesEmon. CHAIRWOMIkN OLIVA: Yes smr 2S KR. RATiCAN: My name is Joseph Ratlcan I live wesu ef Zoumas s properey December I~ 2003 133 1 2 there, if it is his property. I have a question en this mae, here it doesn't shew 3 where the cesspool's going te ge. It doesn't shew where the £rent steps or perch er back % steps going te go. I built at least 20 houses in Southold, and I was never permitted te put 5 cesspools in the back of the house. Now, according te this, the cesspools are going 6 back in the house, next te my property. CPLm~IRWOHAN OLIVA: Sir, I think 7 that is up te the Board of Health and net up to this Beard te determine where the cesspools 8 are being placed. BOARD H~MBER GOEHRINGER: We're 9 not oven close to - CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: We're not even 10 close te them building a house. BOARD MEHBER GOEHR!NGER: We don't 11 mean te be sarcastic yet but HR. RATICAN: That's all ! have. 12 Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Ail in favor? 13 (Whereupon, all Board Hembers responded in favor.) 14 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second and I. j/ 15 CH~IRWOHAN OLIVA: Next hearing is J. and C Held~ings, Incorporated, Mrs. 16 Dell. It's been recessed since 12/1 we got a new letter from the sail and water 17 conservation. They actually replied rather favorably. Hrs. Wickham, geed afternoon. 18 HS. WICKHAM: Geed afternoon, Abigail Wickham for the applicant. 19 And yes, since the last hearing, several things have happened. Soil and water 20 has responded indicating a favorable review ef the proposal with respect te bluff 21 drainage. You have received new maps which indicate the moving of the drain that had been 22 close to the bluff further towards the street and that drain will accommodate part ef the 23 roof runoff, and there are ether dry wells on the property that will accommodate the 24 driveway run elf and the run off fram the front part ef the roof, front meaning water 25 side, actually the rear. You have also received a plan that December 18, 2003 134 2 shows the building that is proposed rc be constructed Frankly, I think ~r's kird Dn an 3 anEracE~ve kone and -f y~u look ~ ~t -- ~s ncc ~.mpes~Pg. It w!ll be very modesn and 4 beinc somewhat lower Than sEree~ ~V~.l Will nDE be a loomino snrucEure. S The survey shews that ehe side yards will be 26 feet on the wesu and 32 feet 6 en the ease those are the shortest dimensions: there are actually wider iisnances because Df the angle ef Eno side lines. And sc the house ~s fairly centered on the let. 8 I'd like Ed 2all your aEEenE~on Eo the fact that while there's a 50 feet setback from Ehe 9 cop ef the bluff that ~s considerably less than the house Ec the ease and lE ~s about as ~0 far back from the bluff as can be obtained ~n order Ed have adeGuaEe setback from uno sEreen 11 Ec gee the driveway ~n. The ~etbacK from the smreen is 12 again, mere than the house cc the ease and I think that there s been an acuemNc nc really 13 m~E~gaEe wha~ ~re ~bviously 2oxcerns of drainage and zmpacns on the properEy. i~ I'e like zc know if vou have any particulaE questions that you' t like 15 aedres~ that we haven't unelied cc } But think that we have tried mc accom~:odate your 16 requesEs and Hr. Fischetti ~s here nc address ssme D~ the enc~neer~nc roncerns. 17 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Hrs. Tortora? BOARD HEHSER TORTORA: Nc think 18 a lot ef the 2oncerns n~ve seen addressed. CHAiRWOHAN 0LIVA: I still Ehink 19 the house is ~oe big. MS. WICKHAH: Let me address that 20 CHAIRWO~N 0LIVA: i~'e aimos~ 3 000 souare feet. It s a preEEy bio house. 21 MS. WICKHAH: ~ have nc iisacree with you a let of people huildinc preney 22 ridiculous lees bi~ reuses. }n Ehis narE~cuiar plan. you w~± nome that the ground 23 floor includes the garage, and the garage has been ~caled back te an 1E foot width whlch ~s 24 preeEy minimal when you sons,der what ~ Eypical ewe car garage would be. You ie need 25 however ~wo car garage here because sEherw~se you re gozxg ne have a car zn Phe nr~veway and December 18 20,03 135 1 2 there's just net adequate ream on the property te provide turnaround and what net. And you 3 can't have cars backing in and eot. Se that first fleer makes it a 47 feet width after ydu % take off the garage, and that I think is pretty modest. If you look at the front 5 elevation, which is facing the street, it really does net look like an imposing home. 6 There are windows en the water side coming off the first and second half-story on the top. 7 He's really scaled it down tea pretty bare minimum, and left a let of the floor area open 8 on the first floor te take advantage ef as much space as he can. Net a very big kitchen ~ with a dining ream as part ef it. CHAIRWOMAN 0LIVA: Prom your 10 original plan I don't see that he's scaled the house down that much. Still 65 by 32 feet. 1i I'm very sensitive ente that bluff area. I really feel that a house mere 2,200 to 2,500 12 square feet is mere than enough. MS. WlCRHA~: This is 2,800. 13 BOARD MEMBER GO~HRINGER: That includes the second story, right? 1% MS. WICKNAH: That includes the second story. The first floor, without the 15 garage which is the way I'm told is they determine living is area, is under 1,700 16 square feet. CHAiRWOHAN O~IVA: The second 17 floor is supposed te be one and a half stories, so I would think that would be even 18 less than 1,188 square feet. MS. WICKHAM: That's the way the 19 actual square footage; he counted everything, and that's what it comes up as. 20 BOARD M~MBER GOENRINGER: When you're done can I ask Mr. Fischetti a 21 question? MS. WICKHAH: I don't think you 22 can leek at the house or even the elevation, or the height is under 31 feet. 23 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: The house is going to be 30 feet? 2% MS. WlCKHAM: Under 31 £eet. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: i'm not happy 25 with that. MS. WiCKHAM: Since it's below the December 18, 2003 136 1 2 s~reeE level it's nos going ~o be an lmposzng house by any means~ 3 2HAIRWOMAN }LIVA: ~c ahead Mr. Geehringer. 4 BOARD MEMBER }OEHRINGER: Can ask Hr. Fischetti a cuestien? 5 MS. WICKHAlV~: Please. HR. PISCHETTI: Joseph Fischettl. 6 BOARD MEMBER GOEHR!NGER: You've been before this Beard many n~mes and the reeenE was the Hattituck situaElon en the bluff mhat is hOE on the wamer where we Nad 8 some significant washinc away. There was an awful lot more sand there than there ~s 9 think. ~n this locammon. Tbs question ~s and this is for my Dwn eersonal I see a 10 remainin? wall made eu~ of railroad hies I may have asked you Phis quesczen before but 1i nee necessarily en the site whan ~s actually holdino up that railroad ~e walll 12 HR. FiSCHETTI:: The weight of the soil on the recainzng wall itself. 13 BOAR2 MEMBER ~O~HRINGEm: Net like · n Mattituck where you lrove e~i~nos ~n oac~ 14 ef it? / FR. NISCHETTi: Not a~ all. What 15 we're loinc here is a standard recalnlnc wall. They're four foot high we have toad men whmc} 16 are four foot does. BOARE MEMBER DRLAIiDC Sor~zon%al 17 HR. PISCHETTi: TRey re cenxe2red Ec the wall 18 BOARD MEMBER ~OEHRINGER: But there mrs pilings driven ~nco chose dead !9 men. MR. FISCHETTI: Hes~ of the ~me 20 zt's the horizontal. It's the an~le Df resose ef mhe soil that you're using, it ~ Ehe 21 weioht of the dead men Eo hold everynhzng Eogether. Very d~=~erent than that oYher 22 area. What we r= do~ng here As a very ~ renaznLnc- wall. The reEa~nlnc walls are }niy 23 mhere no change she grade. Ko're ~h~re mc nc seep that depression that's ~n there new 24 where eli the soil ~s going rc Se whae the remaining walls are 0o~ng only hoidinc- up four 25 feet ef soil. It s Enere cc shange the crade- ~t's nee ns hold up al_ this so~i behind ~r 137 1 2 like it was before. We had te de that te make sure that everything was above impacting that. 3 ~ge're trying to change the grade eight feet in that area, bringing it up in four feet 4 intervals. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Doing that 5 whole retaining wall en the west side too? MR. FISCHETTI: That's correct. 6 It starts at four foot, then it will end up getting smaller as it goes te the end, but 7 it's there te change the grade te bring that grade up. If yen notice at the law paint in 8 that area where there's a law paint it says 1%, and the grade changes slightly. Then it ~ gees to 76 and the bottom of the lowest retaining wall is 79~ Then it goes up four 10 feet to 83 this's the first level. That's what's built first. That's the first 11 retaining wall that will be built on that site. When we go dawn -- one ef yen last 12 meeting wanted to knew construction processes, and really what happens is we would ge in 13 there and build that first retaining wall. Most of it will he done by hand. 1% There's not much change of grade, four feet_ The 1~ level will be put in and the 15 retaining w~ will be put in with no fill, and then wh~.t happens is we'll start taking 16 the soil fram the top where the next retaining wall would be, bring it down to the first eno; 17 then new we've got the next one leveled te the lower level; and we build the next one up four 18 feet. Then once that's built up, we have the soil where the house is gets pushed in and 19 that gets filled in. Ail of those will be dena prior; that will be done mostly handwork 20 I don't think there's any need far machine work except maybe small machines te carry the 21 retaining walls, whatever they use, the bobcats, and mostly it's by hand. 22 CHAIRWOM~N OLIVA: Hew are you ge±ng to clear that lot, it's a mess? 23 MR. FISCHETTI: It gets cleared. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Yen have to 24 take same big machinery in there? MR. FISCHETTI: Not really. A lot 25 of it is chipping. I really doesn't do an extensive, but whatever, that gets done first. December 18, 2003 1 2 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: I know that. MR. FISCHETTI Whatever the a retamnmno wall ms has co be 21eared. Most of me is not unau nhaE s all scrub brash mn that 4 area. What haepens ms now you have that deDressien in there. So the firsu thing that E gees ms those ~wo reEalnmnc wa_is asa mlnor 2iearinc Eo gem the equmpmen~ mn whamever. 6 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: It's a stueid quesEien but uhaE greaE big he!e that s there all that dirt that's been pushed Enere pub back mn~o that big hoie~ what s ione w_Eh 8 Eha~? ~R. FISCHETTI: The hole was there 9 for the sanlEary sysEem it really has ne bearlngo The whale smee ~ balance cue and 10 fill. Not bringmng any SOll mn You ~sked that quesE~en last mime ii CHAIRNOMAN OLIVA: I did. HR. FISCHETT-: Ef you notice zhe 12 ease s~de of the house is sitt:ng inside the slope and the wesm side is smeming eum. What 13 happens me all that SOil en the ease side gars pusaed Eo where the reza~nmnc walls are ~o 14 level that smEe. So that's why ~he remamnmng walls gee built fmrst. The ~me gem~ 21eared 15 and leveled. 8c I really imdn r dc an analysis Df the whale sf the pzn £2~ that al! 16 gees filled -n and everything gees puE hack again. 17 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRiNGER: What ms ~'our~ ~ Dplnlon in reference mo the dis_anco 18 between the retaininc walls? HR. FISiHETTI Four feet mn s 19 standard between ~he lower PRe and the ueeer eno that s all you need. And I've done seeps 20 up nhree Dr fOUZ even that way. BORRD MEMBER GDEHRiNGER: Df ~ ~ sow. e sore of 21 course I have grass ~row n~ }r soli remenrlon ~h~ m!nuEe that s oene. 22 HR. FISCHETTi: You mean on Ehe levels? You sould puE mhem there, there s a 23 sliaht pitch }n them basically level. You 2ould pun grass oz any mmne Dz vegetation mo 24 grow ~n there. Again, mE's level It s see gemzmng eroded. There's nc place far m~ rc 25 erode Ec because zne~ -~ - c_e~in~n wall itself ms Ehere mc hold mn bac~. You 2ouid eu~ :round 2003 139 1 2 covers, plantings. BOARD MEMBER GOEHRiNGER: Wood 3 chips. MR. FISCHETTI: That's your 4 question. CHAIRWOMAN 0LIVA: Mrs. Tortora? 5 BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: No questions. 6 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Orlando. BOARD HBHBER ORLANDO: Not f©r 7 Mr. Pischetti but for Hiss Wickham. I was not present for the last public hearing, but I was 8 briefed en it. I was under the impression, I was told that the house is going t© be 9 reduced. I don't see it. It was a 32 by 65. It's still 32 by 65. 10 HS. WICKHAM: It was originally going to be a two story center hall colonial, 11 and that was kind ef an imposing structure. Re did cut that back. 12 BOARD HBMBER ORLANDO: The footprint of the house? 13 MS. WICKHAM: Is essentially tNe same, yeah, it is the same, yes. And jest 14 given the size of the house, the size of the side yards, you're not anywhere near the side 15 yards in terms of maximum size. You're well within the side yard requirements. And te 16 make a house less than 32 feet is going to be a little bit difficult, if you're concerned 17 about the width ef the house, 65 feet. BOARD MEMBER ORLAiNDO: I'm not 18 concerned, I was just was under the impression 19 MS. WICKHAH: I talked te him about it. He spent a let ef time. He had a 20 whole plan done, and this is what he felt made sense for the property in terms ef what was 21 reasonable given a moderate size house. It's mot eno ef these mansions that people are 22 coming up with. It's 2,800 square feet ef living area. It's modest. 23 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: I was just making a comment and because it said it was 24 being reduced. MS. WICKHAM: We were asked to 25 consider it, and we did consider it. it's certainly a better plan. December 18, 2003 140 1 2 BOARE MEHBEB iRLANDD: How many souare feet was the ~rioinal Noise- dc you ~ recall? Hy DrLg~nai paperwork ices nor show a plan eLuher. ~ MS. WICKHR~: He diin'~ have ~ne bum hs was thinkinc }f more efa ,we susry. 5 MS_ KOWALSKi: Probably the s~me s~uare foot er so. ~ MS. WICKHAM.: He iidn'~ have a specific plan when I was here the last emma that we would 2oma u~ with the 2enceptea! plan. $ BOARD MEM~E~ DRLANDO: Ne further quesuions f~om me 9 CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: Mrs. Wickham you still ceuldn n take another ~ive feet off 10 maybe slx feet? HS. WICKHA~: Believe me I have 11 been up and dawn. Unfortunately he s oun ef Eewn today and cculdn ~ be here. But I did 12 examLne him very, very ciose_y Dn that And he said when you snarr doin~ that the layeu~ 13 is no~ working th~s man ~s a builder and he knows how ~o deal with houses and gar things 14 ET move. with the garage on that fzrst f~oor ~ I nhink he pu~ a small study ~r something 15 behind Lm 5use nc fill ~e the space but basically the first iloor ~s 47 feet wide. 16 BOARK HEKBER DRLAN30: is he building a cuseon house far a ~lient Dr Ls 17 thi~ lus~ ~ spec house? KS. WICKHAM: He would be buiidixc 18 this basic house whether Ehere would be a slicht change Dn the LnEer~or I uan'~ ~ay, 19 but basically this ~s the house_ BOARE MEMBER DRLANDO: He s non 20 building ~ for a partLcular family? MS_ WiCKH_NIv~: ! Oon'E know. 21 CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: Is ~ ~ spec house? 22 MS. WICK~AM: i think he may because he did gar this plan Fecenher. 23 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Let's see if uhere's anybody else Ln the audience. Thank 24 you. Hrs. wickham MS. SUMMERS: My name ~s Liudy 2~ Hill ~ummers. I m ~ne ahU~Elng eroper~y ~o the wesE. December 18 2003 1 2 First I want to thank everybody for allowing this te be deferred for eno month 3 because I wasn't able te attend, I was out of town last month. % i have three major concerns that I wanted te address and just get some feedback 5 eh. My first one concern is the height and safety and the aesthetics of the retaining 6 walls. From the plans, the retaining walls appear te be three feet from my property line. 7 And the retaining wall appears te be, although I caN't exactly tell, appears te be roughly 60 8 feet or se, right along my property line, three feet from the property line. And it is, 9 while it is called a two tiered retaining wall, and each eno is four feet, that is 10 essentially eight feet of wall, three feet from my property, 60 feet or so long, which I 11 think is a little excessive. The second point eN the retaining 12 walls, if I leek at the co~teur lines, the retaining wall at the bluf£ south side hit tNe 13 7% retaining wall, 74 sea wall, and the eno en the driveway side hits 92 feet. Se that's a 1% difference of 18 feet. So, I want to make sure I underr~{and, if the retaining walls are 15 four feet %~d four feet or eight feet high at the bluff ~ide and the difference is 18 feet, 16 what happens to the ether ten feet; is the property sloping down; is the property level, 17 so that the retaining walls have to De actually mere than two four feet ones at the 18 bluff side, because our dwelling has sliding glass deers that look out on the retaining 19 wall, and the retaining wall is three sides; so the view from our window here, which is all 20 windows, goes directly out onto two four feet er essentially eight foot'wall ef retaining. 21 So I just don't understand the depth. Does that mean that they are taking away ten feet 22 from the bluff? I mean, ten feet from the inside and moving that down te create that 23 this eight foot retaining wall. Or the difference ef eight feet, hew is that handled? 24 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Mr. Fischetti. HR. FiSCHETTI: De you want me te 2S answer it new? CHAIRWONAN O~IVA: Yes. December 18, 2003 2 MR FISCHETTI: Ii you nomzce nod hhe upper the lower wall the lowest 3 pare of the lower wall has eleva~mon cf 79 and _he ~op of the lower wall -s 8! 4 HS. SL~MERS: My mae shows 74 2ould you show me where 79? Z HR FISCHETTI~ 74 ms a 2hange grade~ that's hoe a renazninc wall down Ehere. 6 MS. SL~:MERS: The 2on,our imne MR. F_SCHEi~I. Yes that's a 7 shanga in the cenEeur; that's non ~ reEainino wall. Then Yt ~oes nhe next ccnuour line 8 2hanGes nc the 76 foot coP~our line and that's ~ s_mghh -- sc we re gozng from 74 9 79. 79 ms the bottom Df the wall the bonnom of the lower wall ms 79 okay? 10 MS. SUMMERS: No sn the drawmng that I'm iookin~ an which nay be iown level 11 the re~amning wall ~rosses the 74 imne_ 12 HR. FISCHETTI: Yes mt ioes MS. KOWALSKI. I ~hink she wanes 13 Ec know what's the difference be~ee~_ Ehe grade and the 79 foot Ee the bcmEom. 14 BOARD MEK~ER ORL~_XDO: %~nen she locks ouE her window how far 15 MR. F!SCHETTI: wal~ ~ only four ~oot aboveg~ou .... .... s only 16 four foot high each level ms anly four foot. MS. KOWALSK!: zs -r filled? 17 HR. FISCRETTi: Below a~ mt's filled irom 7~ ro 79 yeah that hole which 18 ms a nele there ms filled five leer. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: But four foot 19 that she can see - MR. FISChEr_I: It's only iour 20 foot The remaining wall's only four foot high. So what happens ms initially eham hole 21 where the 74 ~s gems fiiie~ ue nc the bottom of ~9. That little hole there's ~ little 22 hole iepressmon mn mhere gems fi!lee u~ ~o 79 ~c ~ry ~o l~v~ the bottDm nc g~n Eo the 23 sEe~s, the betmem ef the elevammen of 7~ which is the bottom of the wall So we go me 24 79 that bottom of mhe wall the last grade ilne Ehar thah wall hits on mhe ease side is 25 80. If you noElce it ends am ~{ . Th~s end am 80 Dr 81 I'r sorry. 18, 2{ ~ 1%3 1 2 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: 81. MR. FISCHETTI: So 79 to 81 it 3 dives into that side. So now we continue that, we actually the bottom cf the retaining 4 wall continues along going west at 79, goes around it's at 79; you'll see it hits towards 5 the western property line. It hits a 76, se it was three feet fill in there slightly te 6 build it up you'll see the grade line continuing around te 78; and then that new ? contour line ends right there 'cause new it hits the actual 79. So the bottom ef the 8 first wall is 79. MS. KOWALSKI: What would the top 9 of the wall be from grade? MR. FISCHETTI: Four feet higher. 10 MS. KOWALSKI: No from the top ef the 74 feet centaur grade that's there new. 11 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Filling in the back of it. 12 MR. FISCHETTI: Yes, it's nine feet higher than 74. The top ef the wall is 13 79. HS. KOWALSKI: I'm just saying ~= 14 relates to the water view. MR. FISCHEIT_: The top of the 15 wall is 83~ It's only a four foot wall. It's net a nine feet wail. 16 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Ail the way across it's four feet above grade. 17 MR. FISCHETTI: Underneath there's some areas ef z±ll there was a he!e there that 18 has te be hand filled and leveled se we can get into it. Once that first wall is done, 19 then it's leveled four feet away from it, and the next wall you see starts at the top ef the 20 old wall. Se the top ef the first wall is 79 and the bottom of the upper wall is Vg, gees 21 te 83, and it just steps it up. Se, yes, she will see two walls that are four feet oN that 22 side. Now, understand that you have an erosion problem here. If we didn't build a 23 house, you would have te de this to step the erosion because you want the erosion te pitch 24 backwards. So whatever you do in there, you can't de it without some kind of fill and some 25 kind of retaining wail. So either you're going to leave, you don't build in there and December 18, 2003 144 1 2 leave i~ as a natural sail eventually 1N wil_ wash out and eventually lose everyfhing 3 there ~rl who knows hew ~any years. And the solution eo sNoc the erosion and which % everybody was concerned about and now people are ~ay~ng, we're non concerned about that- he S doesn ~ wann to build that regaining wail. Zt cesNs S20.000 S30,000 ~e build that. He's 6 doinc that ce save that erosion that s in there new plantings a~ong that side can miticane the view of that wall. BOAND HBMB~R GOEHRINGER~ That s 8 exactly why I asked that question BOAND HEMBER GOBNK~NGER~ Both 9 planting ~he wall~ and }n the e~er? HR. FISCHETTI: Yes yo~ have four 1{ fee~ ~c plann in front of ~, ~nd plant in between, in front }f them can be planted if 11 hhan's a concern that 2ould be mlei~ated ~hat way and them you ceuldn'e, wouidn'~ see a 12 re~aining wall And i've seen just ~vy, I'v~ seen retaining walls elanted with ~vy, afeer a 11 wh~ie you don'~ see reca~n~no walls. I've been a builder for 3{ years myself and %his 14 hoes~ ~s modest a~ 2.800 square feet that s ~ living area. Some ef ~he ~' ~ that s s~_ being 15 built new ~s talkinc aDou~ 5 }00 6 0©0, }00 seuare fee~. When I built a big house ~n was 16 in the { 00£ ~qeare feet range. This house ~s modest and reducinc ~ five feet ~e would 11 ~ake everybody feel better bu~ ~t really zs no~ going nc m~ticane anyrn~ng, if we reduced 18 l~ five fee~. ~hat ~t would dc ~s cens~r~c~ th~ fleer plan ~f the norse. There's rerna~n 19 modules that you work wi~h modules of beirooms i!vlng rooms and modules e~ ~arages. 20 normal two car ~arage for a reasonable house is usually 24 b} 24~ Phis ~s 18 by 18. Re's 21 ke~e everything tca min~mum~ It is a eno and a half story ho~se It's a very modest house 22 in the fron~ ~ looks like a ranch. me~es~ ~n nhe back as well. 2] CHAIRWOMAN I~iVA: Does that answer you¥ ouestlons? 24 MS S~MERS: So the quesN~on really was se they re taking ran feet sf soil 25 away fram the upper drzveway pernien and movzng ~ nc the lowez se zn s level. Eesember 18 2803 145 i 2 HR. FISCHE~TI: We will use the upper area for soil. ?e make the site 3 reasonable level_ Actually, the front ef the house, the soil slopes from front to back but % in essence, the soil en the east side will be brought te the west side to bring a rough 5 grade ef 79 in the back and in the front 91. HS. SUN~{ER8: Se in essence, it's 6 roughly around 90 feet the total level where the house is? 7 HR. FISCHETTI: Yes. On the right side where the grades are to the right side ef 8 the house it does go up to about 96. Se some of that 96 will be cut. 9 MS. SUHMERS: I still want te state my concern, three feet from my property 10 line I have lovely levels, two levels pointing to eight feet ef well, and it gees over 70 11 feet right te my property line_ I'm concerned about how that is going to be, how the 12 retaining wall will be reenforced. HR. FISCHETTI: The retaining 13 walls are built standard, that every retaining wall will have a dead man tieback, it's 14 structurally sound, standard procedure te build it. /fas, you will see eight feet ef 15 wall if i~/'-s net planted. HS. SUMMERS: Hy second question 16 was related to the height. The house picture that was in the file is 30 feet high, and that 17 is en top of the eight feet from my property. Se this house will be 38 feet high from my 18 property level, which does, if you beg my pardon, I consider te be kind ef towering, 38 19 feet. The second question was the stability ef the bluff. Given the weight of the 20 transfer ef the fill from one side ef the property to the other side, do you knew hew 21 much fill in square yards or cube yards or what the weight of that has te get transferred 22 to the read side te the bluff side to make this property level? 23 HR. FISCHETTI: It comes down to the angle ef repose ef the bluff. When the 24 soil has a normal stability, an angle, anything below that angle is stable, anything 25 placed above that angle makes it unstable. Se anything placed below that angle makes the December 18, 2003 146 2 soil more stable, net less stable: anything placed above that ~ine makes ,u unstable~ 3 R!~ht new ~his bluff ms a~ mrs anole sf repose and is unau line coxzinued fro¥ the % ~£p all The 2onsmrucumon and all the materie± ms placed below hhe angel }f renose. Se mu 5 has nc kearlng, no effect exce~a making the bluff below it more stable because in s adding 6 wem~ht to it. It's not maki~ ~ ~nstab_e. CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA~ Hmss Wmckham did you gem ~ permmu from the Trustees? MS. WiCKHAH: There's a !etmer of 8 nenlurisdiction from back from the previous application I believe, if you don u have mt 9 mn your file I have a copy and I will subm~ mu ~o you. 10 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Thank you. MS. SUMMERS: i had eno last 11 quesmien. How dee~ are ehe dry wells expected mc be? 12 HR. FISCHETTI: Actuahly, they're probably about em~ht feet deny. 13 MS. SUHHERS: So if the dry wells are eloht feet dean aid the wails ~n which 14 the dry well ~s sontained ms ~oht feet that means the iry well will empuy eu~ level with 15 my property; ms that correct e~ght lent emght ~eet? 16 HR. FESCHETTI~ No. Basically ~ne waaer will basica!lv irain suramght down. 17 mu ms sandy semi end mu won't g~ horizontal. It will Irain smramghu down. 18 MS. SL~MER8: Even ~n w½am ms the se~l compesmelen au emght ~eet. dc yo~ 19 know2 MR. FiSCHETTi: Aca~n i~ s ell 20 sandy semm. MS. S~JH_HERS: So I shsuld have ne 21 cencer~ that the dry wells will provide any exura runoff en my proper~y au ~11 because Df 22 the iepth Df the dry ~ells beinc 2ons,snene with this elchh feet wail nm~v~u feel dry 23 well. MR. FISCHE~TI: Nof au ail. 2% 2HAIRWOHAN OLIVA~ Is ther~ a clay layer there? 25 HR. FISCHETTI: Yes there is some clay if s sandy clay. It's neu silty De~emDer 18 2{ 21 147 1 2 clay. It's still permeable and the soil all of that material will go down. 3 MS. SUMHERS: Because the problem is this little depression that's mestiy on our % side of the property line goes down to like 68 feet contour. So I'm kind of concerned given 5 the top of the property is 82 feet, and is the bottom is 72 er 68, sorry, that anything that 6 would -- so I shouldn't worry about any water runoff? 7 MS. WICKHAM: The drain is well back from that point. 8 MR. FISCHETTI: It's not even close. And this is net a let ef water. This 9 is just the roof runoff. This is the same amount ef water that would be there if it 10 normally rained. What's happening is just it's just being contained. It's not 11 additional water. It's the standard runoff that would happen at that point. 12 MS. SUMMERS: Can I request that we reconsider the retaining wall being three 13 feet from my property line at eight feet tall? HS. WICKHAH: If you're finished, 1% can I address that? if you're finished~ CBAiRWO~%N OLIVA: Ge ahead. 15 MS. WICKH~M: First ef ail, I just want te respond to eno point she made and 16 clarify that an adjoining owner does net have the right to a water view over the neighbor's 17 property. She has 150 feet of her own, but that being said, let me just indicate to you 18 the mitigating factors on this retaining wall. I don't think they're going te be as ominous 18 from her point of view as she may be concerned about. 20 First of all, her house is 55 feet, and there is vegetation there. Second 21 ef all, the retaining wall will not be the first eno, the outside eno will not be four 22 feet height for the whole distance e¥ the 50 feet. It gees into the hill. So it's not 23 going te be standing up. The neighbor could put a four foot fence all the way along that 24 side yard, which would probably be uglier, but this is a recessed p!anued retaining wall. 25 And portion of the retaining wall opposite her house is actually angled away from her house. December 18, 2003 2 So that's non ~ozng no be nearly as obvious as in beinc right u~ aga~nsE the side yard. 2 Fhe Decend inside re~a~nl~c wall acaln, ms further recessed in will be ~ planted and mn's not going ~c be four feet above the ground the whole iistance. I'd also ~ like ko po!n~ ~u~ tNat the entire preposee house ms behind the location Df ber house. So 6 there's non ~o~ng to be an ~meacr. I think ~0 the exEenE that she zs concerned about. Basically, lust nryzng te level off and ameliorate the runoff that's really ~ ' 8 that ~roperEy rmght new. BOARE MEMBER GOENRiNGER: That's 9 why we're gezng Ee requesE sugges~ the buffering. And we 11 reserve the rmghr rc !0 revmew MS. WICKP_AM. That's fine. 11 don't know what precisely you have mn mind but I would suggesE plantings between the uwe 12 reta~ninc walls perhaps zn the naEure of s perennial that weu!d ever~row the lower 13 reta~nznc wall and upper reta~n~nc ro 2amouflage _~ ~n some way. Or dc you want 14 put plantingD Dn ~he ~reund in front D~ ~t? don'E know if that's env~renmenuaiiy sound I 25 would think BOARE MEFBER IOEHRINGER: Where 16 the retaininc wall ~s the muse blatant ~eem±nc aE ~t's lowest pe~nm ~o plant plantings 17 there. MS. WiCKHAH: Yes. ~e would ie 18 plantings there and get someone who can tell us what's ~e~ng ne be ~es~ mn terms of 19 BOARE MEKBER =OEHmlN~R: Prebaklv 20 2HAIRWOMAN OL!VA: Dr you can ask Cornell what weu!d be best. 21 HS. WICKHAM: We weuid be advantage willing ~o acceem that 2ondition 22 think that would be mn their best ~nEeresu make sure that bluff shays stable. 23 BOARE MEMBER =OEHRING~R: It's only going nc add to the stability Df Ehe 24 whole thine MS. WICKHAM: Exactly. I have no 25 problem with that. ~HA±RWOM ~N DLiVA: Any }ther December 18 2081 149 ! 2 questions from the audience? Yes, sir. HR. HESTLY: W~e's liable if it's 3 net stable? CHAiRWORAN OLIVA: Come to the 4 mike give your name, please. MR. HESTLY: My name is Chris 5 Hestly. I'm the adjoining property owner to the east side. I'm very concerned about the 6 fill is going to come off the slope adjacent te mine, to fill the ether side ef the 7 property. I'm wondering who -- say this doesn't work, this retaining wall and 8 everything, who's committed te this property that's still going to be here five years from 9 new? Is anybody in this ream? Because I'm going te be here five years from new and I'm 10 pretty convinced that there wasn't an eresiem problem before that let get cleared. It was 11 built up with trees and lots of underbrush, and it was totally stable. And new 12 everybody's talking about, everybody's concerned about erosion. New we build a 13 retaining wall, we were concerned about erosion after the let get cleared out. 14 Anyways, so I'm concerned about the fill~ominG from my side, the east side, 15 and I'd/ te hear something about that, and going t~ the other side, hew's that going te 16 happen? What's the grade going te look like coming off my property on that side now? I 17 also have to say, just like what i said last time. These are huge variances i don't 18 understand why they just are allowed te happen. I think it's really kind of horrible 19 because I don't understand why these guidelines are in place, if they're just 20 rubber stamped. Just like that attorney said before, you guys are rubber stamping if you 21 allow anything this big te ge in there. It's really like the laws or the guidelines are 22 very far from being what that drawing's about. 23 Als©, I'd like te state that we back out of our driveway. There's no garage. 24 Most ef the houses ~p there don't have garages. So if all this extra room is being 25 taken te justify having a garage, i think the garage should be reconsidered. December 18, 2003 150 1 2 Also. somebody was comparing my house which ms ce the easE. ,c this house mn 3 terms of bu~ldin~ on that property, and we're closer To the bluff. But we'~e also Dn nOD of 4 the hill This is being bumlt on a slope. It's ~n entirely differenn situatmon. We re 5 u~ on the crest Df a hml!. It's stable. It's goE rocks underneath it. 6 Just thought i would brine thee poznt u~ They're nee a~ all similar. You can'T look at them and say you've gDT this much room the house on the oas, has this much 8 room ~way from ~ne bluff -- i~'s ~n ~o~ of the bluff. 9 Somebody made a comparison about these big houses being built all ~reuNd here 10 well Brown's Xiils doesn't nave any 5 }00 or 6 000 s~uare feet houses. ~e've ~o~ ~ very il beautiful little commun~ny ane we'd like to kee~ ~t that way. Sc a 5, 300 or 6 000 square 12 foot house would be like three ~mes bigger than the biggesE house u~ there_ This house 13 relative To the sther houses ue there ~s bmg, this proposed house 14 I would also like n~ lust s~ane before this that I'm a !mttle 2OncerneO about 15 the sens~E~v~y Df the builde~ mhd the people involved mn this because som{~bedy had a i6 survey ione. and ~hey 2uc ~nrough my property. They cue a path ~nrougn the underbrush They 17 macheted through and sawed enrougn Dn my nrees and everything. Sc I really r~epe that when 18 something's ~greed nc ~uess what I m concerned ~bout ms ~ay we ~gree to a proposed 19 plan or whatever who's mo say that if that plan 2tangos from what 1E is when mt's 20 actually built, what dc we de about that then? Is there any recourse an eham peznt? When the 21 building sEarEs what happens? CHAIRWC~VlAN OLIVA: ~uilding 22 lnspecEors usually come out and inseec- an various s~aoes of the 2oKsYrucnlon to make 23 sure. first Df all that the foundation me exactly mn the place that we nave agreed no 24 because there have been n~mes when tbe foundation have been p~aced mn someo!ace }thor 25 than what the Beard has decreed ~nd we have made them change ~. December 18 2007 157 1 2 MR. HEST~Y: What about perches and stuff like that? 3 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: He does have to come back again for a variance for anything 4 because it would be tee c!ese~ MR. HESTLY: Okay. 5 CHAIRWOHAN 0~IVA: We d©n't look too favorably en that at this type efa 6 construction. MR. HESTLY: Especially because 7 the variances are highly extreme already in my opinion as a property owner. 8 I guess that's all I have te say. Thank you. 9 CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Thank you. Is there anybody else? Yes, ma'am. 10 HS. MORGAN: Mary Morgan, I live in Brown's Hills. I spoke at the meeting 11 before and I just wanted to reiterate that it is a small property with a deep ravine and I 12 am concerned about the runoff and what's going to happen there, and also this being a builder 13 and the fact that we don't know -- it isn't someone who laves this area and loves this 1% property and really wants te build a nice, sensitive little house on this lot, which 15 again, is like a negative building envelope, there's not much roam there, bet a small, 16 nice, little house could be built. Nobody who's in that category ef being interested in 17 being a good neighbor with all of us has stepped forward, no one's approached our 18 association. It's just a lovely, sensitive, little hoese could be built there with very 19 not these huge variances, and I don't see what seems te be driving the fact that semebody's 20 get te build this big house is that the property's very high. If they would sell it 21 for less, somebody could build something smaller and more sensitive. That makes sense 22 to me. CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: Thank you. Is 23 there anybody else wishes to comment? Any Beards members that are left? 24 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I unfortunately have to get going. I apoiegize. 25 CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: Se do I~ MS. WICKHAM: Could I jest respond December 18, 2003 152 1 2 to something? I'll be kr~ef. F~rst ef all front yard variance ~ is no~ s~gnificant Rna front and back ~coether while le may he a let is really % minimal I think particularly when you look a~ adlDln~ng propertles whether you're 5 cop of the bluff sr part way hewn ~'s proximity ce ·he bluff that we're concerned ~ about. There ~s ~ house that ~s ioca~ed lus~ en the ether side of }ne of these ·c the wes~ which is 73 feet long, that ~s th~ Tax ~ot 5. The house Dn the other ~ide, Tax Let 3 as I 8 read the town assessor's rard ~s 93 feet long. Sc again, yes it's a small lot. but ~ den' ~ ~ think th side yards is what's the problem here° Everything has tried kc be mid,gated ~0 and I hhi~k he really has designed a n~ce house that we would be wiilinc ee adhere 11 conditions. MS S~!HERS~ Can I make ~ne mere ~2 comment? CHAIRWOMAN O~IVA: Yes Please g~ 13 rc t~e mike. MS. SUHMERS: lus~ ~oeke~ a~ ~he - - 14 drawino ~ga~n ~nd no~lc?d there s f~ve fee~ befcre the f~rs~ flocr s~ar~s and then there's lB 25 feet af house and again lust The soncern that while the 30 foot height deesn · sound 16 iik~ a lot when you 3{ feet nc the e~ht feet ef wall. I m concerned about i~ ~nd - ion't 17 knew what value ~e brings that house ~e have that five feet. I don'T ~now if that s 18 scmethino that was brought ue before. Bu~ seems ~c me that s five feet that doesn !8 bring any value but brings 38 foot from ~he base preper~y that could be pceeneiaiiy 20 MR. FiSCHETTI: That draw~no ~s not truly -- ~ ieesn't ~how grade, if you 21 leek a~ the s~e plan you 11 noe~ce there's the two ~n The front zr says PG ~hai's 22 prepesee grade in the ~ron~ is 81. The finished f!eos elevae!on ~s 9! ~o thaz means 23 the grade in the front ~s a ~wc feet differential OR the ~rade in the front. The 2% back there's a PG ~n ~he back ~s 87. Sc ~t's a s~x fco· ~n the back because again w~ re 2~ trying ~e m~rloaee the little bit sE elevation · n the front. December 16 2003 153 1 2 MS. KOWALSKI: Date on that plan, Joe? 3 MR. FISCHETTI: Excuse me? MS. KOWALSK!: What's the date on % that plan? MR. FISCHETTI: The maps are the 5 same. MS. KOWALSKI: I think the map we 6 gave her -- MS. WICKHAM: December llth. 7 MR. FISCHETTI: Proposed grade in the front is 91, and it says that's FFL, 8 that's finished fleer elevation is 93; that's what these words mean. 9 MS. SUMMERS: Could you translate for me? From the base of my property, how 10 tall does this house ge? HR FISCHETTI: What is your base, 11 76? MS. SUMMERS: 78 is the 12 midpoint. HR. FISCHETTI: We're basically a 13 grade in the back ef ten feet higher. MS. SUMMERS: From the top of the 14 reef te the bottom ef my property at the midpoi}d 78, hew many feet is it? Cause this 15 says ~/hat it's 38. That's not right. ,~ MS. WiCKHAM: It's 81 feet away 16 from your house at least. BOARD HEMBER ORLANDO: From the 17 ridge of her house to her average grades. MS. WICKHAM: What was the first 18 part? BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: She wants 19 to know from the ridge of her house to average grades. 20 MS. WICKHAM: 118 would be. HS. KOWALSKi: 118 minus 78 leaves 21 her 40. MS. WICKHAH: It's 80 some feet 22 away, behind the house. That's the topography of the property. 23 BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: %0 feet, four story building_ 24 CHAIRWOHAN OLIVA: That's a let. MS. WICKHAM: 31 feet to the ridge 25 line. BOARD MEMBER ORLANDO: We didn't December 18, 2003 154 1 2 say that. 4( feet. MS. WTCKHA~: that's because her ! ercner~y !s lower. And the ~o~ise ~s behind her house. % MS SUCKERS: It's net reail'- because my proper~y is lower eer se it's E because you re filling ue ei~h~ feet. CHAIRWOH~N OLiVA: Yes sir. Real g ~uick because I've got To go. MR HORGAN: Very briefly Tom Morgan. Brown's Hills these are not huge variances? There ~s a negative building 8 envelope according ue the setbacks. I den - want Ee deny somebody the r~cht ce build en 9 their preper~y, but there's a neca~lve you s~ar~ with less ~hannothingS' ~ and anything is a 10 huge variance beyond thaT. which when we were buildino and ~u wls }nly a 11 2euple 9f years age, I was told hh~ the height sf the house that ~e were ailoweO 12 build was based ueon -- I said what's ~he suaru~nc ~o~nu what s the ground po!nt? 13 Well that's the mean level sf ehe proper~y gees ee 80 ue i0{ feet. So we had ~c 2onform 14 as though ~ were ~n the middi~ st that New this ~ees from D to 92 er semg~hing like thah 15 doesn'u it? Dr does ~ coun from where the bluff begins? 16 HR FiSCHETU!: It s average. HR HORGAaN: Se 17 BOARD MEKBEN ORLANDO: ~s says average natural grade Ls 81. 18 HR MORGAN: Where does that 36 BCARD HEMPEN GOEHRiNGER: !- s ~he 19 heicht Df the house. HR MORGAN: At what level is the 20 house first f!oer? MR. FiSCHETTI: The first fleer 21 elevation first fleer is 93. Fir~E fleer eievaE~en ~s 93. 22 HR. MORGAN: Does hhis nor exceed the heicht? 23 MR. FiSCHETTi: I'm nee sure the question he asked me -- hhe cede says yen have 24 ~e compute that maximum height of 34 feet from the average elevation ~ii around. We're 25 talking about ~z s sloped iewn so you're seart~nc from the r~cht side ei uhe house December 1~ 2803 155 1 2 starts te 92 and it goes te 82. Se it's 85, 87, that's the average. 3 BOARD MEHBER ORLANDO: It's written down 81 it's your drawing. 4 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRiNGER: You know the problem, Mr. Fischetti, the problem is S that everybody is visualizing as a suspension, as opposed ~o the relationship ef the lady's 6 property that spoke that's sitting in back ef you and the relationship ef the read. If we 7 knew the relationship of the house te the read, we would then be able te understand, I 8 think, what the height differential would be. I'm just throwing that out. We're throwing 9 numbers out left and right here, and there's ne mean, the mean that we have here, because 10 the lady in beck ef you has multitepegraphy, but the reads should the mean, and that's the 11 problem. MS. WICKHAH: The middle of the 12 read, if I can answer that question, is about 92, in the middle ef the property at the read. 13 Se the house is going to be just under that at the ground fl©ors elevation is 91. 1% BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Is that first floor finished plan is 82. 15 HR. FISCHETTI: Finished floor elevation is 93. 16 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: That's about even with the read then? 17 MS~ WICKHAM: Yes, it's not going to be looming. 18 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: that answers the q~estien because new we have a 19 norm te deal with. Me'am. MS. SUMMERS: I can only assess 20 the quality of looming from where I sit, and from where I sit it's %0 feet. 21 BOARD MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I was not referring te your property being 22 multi-tepegraphicai. I was merely referring te it as the hole that exists en the one side. 23 I know your property is much more level than that. Ne way was I degrading the property. I 2% just wanted yon to be aware ef that CHAIRWOMAN OLIVA: If there's no 25 other comments, i will have a motion to close the hearing and reserve decision until later. December 18, 2003 156 1 2 BOARE MEMBER GOEHR!NGER: Seccnd CHAIRWOMAN OLiVA: All in favor? 3 Whereueon all Beard Hemeers resporoed in !aver. 4 Time ended: 4:55 p.m. 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 2O 21 22 23 24 2~ December 18 2003 157 1 2 3 C E R T I F i CAT I O N 5 i, Fierence V. Wiles, Netary Public fur 6 the State ef New Yerk, de hereby certify: 7 THAT the within transcript is a true 8 recerd ef the testimeny given. 9 I further certify that I am not related by 10 bloed er marriage, te any ef the parties to 11 this action; and 12 THAT I am in ne way interested in the 13 eutceme ef this matter. 1% IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunte set my 15 hand/this 18th day of December, 2003. 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 Flerence V. Wiles 23 25 December 18, 2003