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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-02/06/2003 HEAR S©UTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS TRANSCRI[PT OF HEA~NGS HELD FEBRUARY 6~ 2803 (Prepared by Jessica Boger) Present were: Chairwoman Lydia A. Tortora Member Vincent Orlando Member Ruth D. Oliva Paula Quintefi Absent: Member Gerard P. Goehringer Member George Homing PUBLIC HEARINGS (Adjourned from 1/16/03): 6:38 p.m. App,. Nh. 5248 - EDWARD WERTHNER. CHAIRWOMAN: The last hearing we had asked for a reconstruction plan landscaping plan and I have a note in the tqle indicating that a landscape plan was prepared by the clients i have a copy of that here attached and would someone like to speak on behalf of the applicant? PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ: I have Mr. Werthner here, Mrs. Stegner is here who is the owner of road we seem to have worked out all our misunderstandings both sides so I believe she's satisfied with the landscape plan Mrs. Cook is across the street, Mrs. Stegner is here and Mr. Wetherner is here and everybody is getting along very well and I think we~ve worked everything out and we*d like to just keep this is the landscape plan that's the minimum but we are still leaving it open that after the house is completed there may be some adjustments to it. The reeds are choking out some of the plants that could have growu there and it's possible that that might be removed and replaced with landscaping but we don't want the Zoning Board to be in the middle of it, we'd rather work it out on our own. Once the house is built you have a better sense of what additional lar~dscaping may be required. CHAIRWOMAN: I think we pretty much covered the variance aspects o£it at the last heating. Is there anything else you*d like to add Mrs. Moore? MS. MOORE: No thank you. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? You have seen the plans and I hope it's reasonable to you. It sounds like we have a good agreement here. Page 2 February 8, 2083 Southo[d Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing MEMBER OLIVA: I looked at the landscaping plan. It looks very nice it you want to dig up those fragmites I wish you lots of luck, but other than that, I think it looks much better. MEMBER ORLANDO: No questions everyone's in agreement, that's fine by me. CHAIRWOMAN: Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION 6:45 p.m. AppL Ne. 5259 - Estate ef MURRAY SCHLUSSEL CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? The attorney has requested that this be adjourned to March 6 at d:30pm so ~'ll make a motion*, to adjourn the hearing to March 6th at 6:30pm. 6:58 p.m. AppI. No. 5268 - SPEROS PAPADO~UPO1ULOS CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? MR. PAPADOPOULOS: Someone was supposed to visit the site and I'm here if you have any comments. MEMBER OLIVA: I did. It's veery difrhcult from your survey to see exactly how far you are Eom Inlet Dr~ve. It looks to me you are just about on the s~eet. MR. PAPADOPOULOS: R's about 25' from either side Inlet or Mar~assett Ave. MEMBER OLIVA: How much room do you have in the back by the swimming pool, you have a grassy area? MR. PAPADOPOULOS: The cesspools are there. There's one cesspool on one side and there's a cesspool on the other side. MEMBER OLIVA: The only other spot that I could see it could be less obtrusive would be where you have the trees and the little wishing well, to move it back there. MR. PAPADOPOULOS: What is the difference? MEMBER OLIVA: Because the ZBA has never granted a gazebo in a front yard before and it does set a precedent for us even if you move it back where the wishing well is, it's still really in the front yard because you have 2 front yards but at least you can't see it quite as much. Page 2 of 12 Page 3 February 8, 2803 Southold Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing MR. PAPADOPOULOS: You buy the gazebo so people can see and enjoy it you don't buy a gazebo to hide it. ]If you were in my place where would you put it? MEMBER OLIVA: I would have put it by the trees. MR. PAPADOPOULOS: Well there's trees there also. MEMBER OLIVA: It does kind of stick out also. It's very nice, I'm not saying it's not nice. MEMBER ORLANDO: Isn't what brought you here the other night was one of the neighbors complained to the Building Dept.? MR. PAPADOPOULOS: Not complains, he says it enhances the area. There was no complaints against it. MEMBER ORLANDO: How did you get the disapproval? MR. PAPADOPOULOS: One day I found a business card on my front door by I don't recall the gentleman and he says the gazebo is in violation come and see me. So I come and see the gentleman and he said you're not supposed put it in the front yard. I said well what can I do he said apply for a permit they are going to deny you and then you apply for a variance and if you want to keep it apply for a variance and that's what I did. MEMBER ORLANDO: Was it a gentleman from the BD or Code Enforcement? MR. PAPADOPOULOS: Code enforcement. MEMBER ORLANDO: Mr. Forrester. He suggested I file for variance and it should be okay. CHAIRWOMAN: It is 25' from the road or 25' from your property line? MR. PAPADOPOULOS: I would say from the road. 20' from the property line. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands, Ill make a motion closing the heating reserving decision until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION 7:08 p.m. Appl. No. 5256 - CLtARLOTTE D]ICKERSON CHAIRWOMAN: Good evening Mr. Dickerson how are you? I believe you have some plans to show us. Page 3 of 12 Page 4 February 0, 2003 Southo[d Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing MR. DICKERSON: May I bring them up to you? CHAIRWOMAN: Paula would you make 5 copies for us please? What did we come up with as far as a setback Mr. Dickerson? MR. DICKERSON: It's positioned 12~ further back from the bluff than it was before so it's now CHAIRWOMAN: That's kind of what we talked about. It really works out pretty good then. MR. DICKERSON: Yes the only problem I have is with the LIPA people I have to get them to move that utility pole thads in the middle. CHAIRWOMAN: But that should work out pretty good because you will have a little more space from the bluff. When do you plm~ to move the bungalow? Is that the correct term? MR. DICKERSON: The rema/ns. It's really a seasonal cottage, there's no interior trim in it. It was just used in the summertime and that's what I'd like to keep but I don't know if the BD would allow it to be a sunn-ner cottage it might have to be brought up to the code of the BD today and finished off inside and insulated and so on. CHAIRWOMAN: Eventually that would be the ideal thing to do and I'm sure you're hoping to do that one day anyway. MR. DICKERSON: Not me but I'm sure the successive owner would. MEMBER ORLANO: Do you recall Mr. Dickerson all these cottages they seem to be in one estate or compound- MR. DICKERSON: They belonged to my grandparents. They owned the property from Rt. 48 ali the way up to the sound and they had these summer bungalows that they leased out in the summertime. MEMBER OLIVA: How many are there? MR. DICKERSON: 6. Actually there were 7. My aunt owned the one further to the west and she sold that some years ago but Pr/ncipi family bought the 6 cottages and the acreage all the way down the road so when tls bungalow came on the market I was most interested in it. I have an oil painting I should have brought it made by my uncle, my mother's brother in 1912 1 think and it shows one bungalow at the top of the bluff and I think the bungalow is the bungalow we are talking about and they call it camp bluff that was the nickname for it. So all I did on the structure was bring it back 12' more. It was 24' on the original plan. CHAIRWOMAN: You didn't line up that little L piece with the rest of the buildLng. Page 4 of 12 Page Februaw 8, 2803 Southold Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing MR. DICKERSON: That little L piece is now 36' back from the bluff. CHAIRWOMAN: in other words I sense this piece is gone, it's history I had ofig/nally said if this is 24' and this is 24' from here to here why not bring them even with each other. Is that possible Mr. Dickerson? MR. DICKERSON: Everything is possible. MEMBER ORLANDO: Because that whole section has to be rebuilt so basically you would push that one section of the house forward and you would increase your back. MR. DICKERSON: It's actually a 4' differential there because that front shape there is 12' long and the main part of the old bungalow there is 8' long so I could shorten it up arid bring it back 4' more if that's what- MEMBER ORLANDO: You'd still have 3d and 20. MR. DICKERSON: I'd still have 3d+4' more so it would be 40' from the emb~ent. CHAIRWOMAN: In other words what I'm say~ng to you is that would only give you 16' to the other property line. We are in a tight spot here or actually you are and I'm try~ug to think of a way to if anyone follows me what I figured out before was he could get 18' to that rear property line if he lined the 2 up and 36 in the front. MR. DICKERSON: IfI took the 4' off the front of that section we could move the cottage and have 20' to the back line. MEMBER ORLANDO: 36+20. MR. DICKERSON: Yes 36 in the front and 20 in the back. CHAIRWOMAN: Where do we pick up 20 in the back? MEMBER OL1VA: Take this little section MR. DICKERSON: Take 20' off the front part of the L shape and move that structure 4' forward. CHAIRWOMAN: There's 4' difference between the structure that was destroyed and the one that's- MR. DICKERSON: We'd have 4' more to work with and ~'d push it forward and I'd have 20' in the back. Page 5 of 12 Page 6 Februar~ 6, 2003 Sou~hold Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing CHAIRWOMAN: So you'd be at 36 and 20. MEMBER ORLANDO: Would that help your telephone pole at ali? MR. DICKERSON: No it goes right through the middle of it. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? BETTY CONSTANTINE: I'm an employee of Florence Wicks. She asked me to come and appear for her top2ght because her attorney could not come so there's a letter that she wants me to give you would you like me to read it? CHAIRWOMAN: You can read it. You are the neighbor directly to the west or southwest? MS. CONSTANTINE: Southwest. Before I read this letter Ijust have one question. Where does he plan to move the telephone pole to? MR. DICKERSON: That would be up to L~A more than me as long as I can get it out of the way of the house. Wherever then can position it. MEMBER ORLANDO: I would assume it's still going to be in your backyard. MR. DICKERSON: Backyard meaning the south of the house. The line goes across Ms. Principi's house to the east of us and then it goes all the way across to the neighboring property owners to the west. CHAIRWOMAN: We can see the overhead wire line fight on the survey. Right now it does mn _right through your house or where your house might be. Go ahead and read the letter. MS. CONSTANTINE: The letter is dated February 3rd. The undersigned is the owner of the land directly adjacent to the westerly property line of the land wl'fich is subject to the application. My land is most severely effected by the action requested by this board. At the original heating on January 16, 2003 I was represented by Steven Angel who stated my strong objections to this application. This application the legal notice and the survey state that the 1 story frame cottage is to be relocated some 14' closer to my land. The existing cottage because of it's deserted abandoned and dilapidated condition cannot be relocated. The applicant, Mrs. Dickerson, was well aware of the cottage's condition and it's location and it's location in the coastal erosion hazard line prior to its purahase. The zoning laws are not intended as a de,Ace to be used to the detriment to the property fights of others, it is requested that this application be denied. CHAIRWOMAN: May I ask you a question. When you say it's going closer to your property, you're talkAng about what on your survey actually looks like the southwest. Is that correct? MS. CONSTANTINE: Yes. Page 6 of 12 Page 7 February 6, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing CHAIRWOMAN: There is an unimproved ROW. Is their a ROW between the 2 properties now? JOHN WICKS: How are you, my name is John Wicks. There is no deeded ROW for his piece of property. The Dickerson property. There is a ROW for the westerly blue house that is located west of him. That is not meant for any other bungalows on the Principe prior owned bungalows. CHAIRWOMAN: It is not showing up on the survey that's why I'm asking. MR. WICKS: There's no deed sa:Cng that's his ROW. He has owned the property for 2 years so it can't be grandfathered in either. It's our property but it's owned by the Dina Elno. MEMBER OLIVA: Who might that be? MR. WICKS: Someone who lives in Brooklyn. MEMBER OLIVA: Who owns it? MR. WICKS: We gave them access to use the ROW. It's only meant for them. MEMBER OLIVA: So your family owns the ROW and you gave this Dina permission to use the ROW, but not Mr. Dickerson. CHAIRWOMAN: We are talking about the ROW that is on your property?. MR. WICKS: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: Not the ROW that is shown on this survey on his property, correct? MEMBER ORLANDO: You do~'t need a ROW do you Mr. Dickerson? You can access the property. MR. DICKERSON: It's not applicable. The only access when I bought the bungalow was by way of going up that ROW and tmnaing into the west side of the cottage there but I have cleared out a ROW coming in directly up the roadway that comes the whole length of the property going nortl*~ and it goes directly towards that shed. MEMBER ORLANDO: So you don't have to encroach on anyone's property to access your property. MR. WICKS: Can you show me what you are talIdng about? CHAIRWOMAN: Certainly. This is a very shortened version of it which you have. This is the ROW that I was asking you about here. That's your property line and where is your house? Page 7 of 12 Page 8 Februaw 6, 2803 Southold Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing MR. WICKS: Our house is about a mile back to the road but this is the ROW that I was talking about. CHAIRWOMAN: I'm trying to understand your concern since your house is so far away- MR. WICKS: ~t doesn't matter how far my house is what matters is someone coming up and encroaching on our property line for future building whatever people want to do with it. What's fight is right. There are setbacks on the property iine. CHAIRWOMAN: There are but I'm trying to understand how it's going to harm you. MS. CONSTANTINE: Future planning that we are working on with the Land Trust and our setbacks on our properties. CHAIRWOMAN: Could you elaborate? MS. CONSTANTINE: I could have someone come and explain it to you if you would adjourn this to another time. CHAIRWOMAN: I would like to get one thing clear the 15' ROW that you own right now that separates on the boundary line that separates your property from Mr. Dickerson's property and that's a 15' your deeded ROW. In order for us to have- MS. CONSTANTINE: We are also concerned if we say okay build the house and these coastal erosion laws and setbacks were put in place to save structures that have not been abandoned which I personally consider this it hasn't been lived in for a decade, decades that I know of. MR. DICKERSON: That's not true I bought the house in 2000. It was rented for the entire season of 2000 so I couldn't move MS. CONSTANTINE: We are down at the beach every day and I've never seen anybody at the house. MR. DICKERSON: I can tell you they were in there because at the closing I got the rent for prorated portion fi'om June to Nov. 1st from the renters. MS. CONSTANTINE: It's inhabitable. CHAIRWOMAN: We have no indication from the information that has been presented to us from the Building Dept. that they have any grounds or any belief that this use has been abandoned which means that at no time in the year it couldn't been used. MS. CONSTANTINE: Could we adjourn this until he gets proof of this because you can clearly look at this building and see it has not been lived in. Page 8 of 12 Page 9 Februaw 8, 2803 Southold Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing CHALRWOMAN: I have no objections if you ~vant to come back and clearly present your objections. MS. CONSTANTINE: Mrs. Wicks bought this farm for her security and the back piece is the valuable piece of property. She's eld~ly but she could live I 0-i 2 or longer years and we are relying on that for our financial security and we are relying on that for taking her care and she's I don't think it's fair because he purchased in 2000. He was well aware of the coastal erosion line and the condition of the shack and also the setbacks. He's an intelligent man. He invested his money in it thinking he open up a building envelope. He found some little niche he wants to play on an emotional need. I don't think it's fair. CHAIRWOMAN: He's entitled to apply for a variance. That is his right. MS. CONSTANTINE: And it's our right to oppose it. We're not trying to be mean. We have to look at our own furore. CHAIRWOMAN: Let me try to get this clear. Are you saying you don't want him to have any building there. That you would object to any kind of structure there? MS. CONSTANTINE: I don't think we are objecting to any structure I think there's a lot if things that need to be looked at than just moving a building back. I look at that building and it looks totally abandoned. Where's the waste going? What are the plans? I'm sure when he moves the building back is he going to use the existing sewage and what sewage is it? MEMBER ORLANDO: You have to upgrade the septic systmn by county code. CHAIRWOMAN: Those are issues that - we are trying to establish a building envelope that is the most workable in terms of the bluff to protect the bluff to protect the bluff area and at the same time respect the adjoining properties so those are the issues we are looking at now. Certainly if you have other issues as Mr. Orlando said the Health Dept. will make those determinations. That's really not within om' purview. Our purview is to look at the code, look at what he's applied for and to listen to you and to see how is this going to directly harm you and balance that between how is that going to benefit him and that's where the crucial question I ask you is he has come up with a couple of plans that we've requested but what of those plans are ail of those plans going to be too close to the property line, I don't know, is 20' too close to your property line? MS. CONSTANTINE: What if we have a bad storm and he has to move it back another 20? In the they are already threatening to go into arbitration to have our property condemned which is like hysterical. CHAIRWOMAN: I'm sorry, I didn't hear. Page 9 of 12 Page 10 Februaw 8, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing MS. CONSTANTINE: In the foyer he threatened to have our property condemned because we wouldn't sell it to him which is - CHAIRWOMAN: I'm not aware of those things and we generally don't give in to civil matters. MS. CONSTANTINE: I would like to take this back to PLT and go over whatever questions and investigate it more before we say we don't want a building. We want to make sure ifs for the best for everybody in the situation. CHAIRWOMAN: I'm sure you are. I'm trying to establish is a building envelope that wilI allow him to create a building. That means it could be a brand new building. He's here for a variance. The variance runs with the land. He wilt not be able to move it forward or closer to the bluff or closer to that property l~ne without farther approvals from us. That's what we are trying to do. We are trying to say here's a reasonable area to build in. If he wants to build a new house there he's going to have to meet certain code standards, health dept. standards any number of- what we are lookthg at right now is variance request that he's before us and rather than just moving a bungalow back that may fail down. MS. CONSTANTINE: ~ would have to speak this over with Mrs. Wicks but personally I mem'~ I would rather see a home that meets the codes than a shack that looks like it's going to blow over. MEMBER OREANDO: I would think that Mrs. Wicks being that she wants to try and recoup as much money as she could for her estate or for whatever purpose for her retirement would think that she would Mr. Dickerson to improve the property so you could get more for your property. Because i'_e could leave it as a shack but that would reduce your value so- MS. CONSTANTINE: She's 94, she's retired. You can't just look at this as one little piece of property wit2out lookthg at the whole property. MEMBER ORLANDO: ~ am I was just answering your one question. MS. CONSTANTINE: If we could have time to review it with PLT and a coastal engineer that we are working with possibly we could just come to terms maybe this is something that's very good for the piece of property and maybe to our best benefit but I'd like to really just have the time to review it. CHAIRWOMAN: We have no objections to that providing ifs a reasonable amount of fime because- MS. CONSTANTINE: We don't want to make an enemy out of this either. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Dickerson, you heard yom' neighbors concerns we kind of agreed to allow her to go back and bring in some other things. What kind of time frame are you talking about? Pao~e 10 of 12 Page 11 February 8, 2083 Southold Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing MEMBER ORLANDO: Do you have any documentation on the renters you had that summer Mr. Dickerson? MR. DICKERSON: Yes ~ can bring in the documentation that shows it was rented and the Pfincipi family had rented it out and at the closing they had to prorate that rent for the rest of the season so we couldn't occupy it ourselves and in 200I we went up to the bungalow we used it on occasion through the year, had some cookouts with our grandchildren. The house was as ~ explained to you last time when you walked through the door you felt like you were on a trampoline because the post had all rotted underneath and we started to try to preserve the- MEMBER ORLANDO: Well if you took any pictures that summer of the barbeques or cookouts, that would be fine. MR. DICKERSON: We didn't take any pictures, but I can bring in some of family members that were there. CHAIRWOMAN: If you could give us that information - how long are you requesting? MS. CONSTANTINE: 60 days please I know it seems like a long time, but Mrs. Wicks, she's 94 and it sometimes takes us awhile. CHAIRWOMAN: That would put it on the April calendar. What do you th/nk Mr. Dickerson? MR. DICKERSON: I live in Mattimck so I'm here ail the time. CHAIRWOMAN: We will set it for 6:30, April 3. Mr. Dickerson if you'd like to draw that other plan that would be fine and I understand you can't do this with the surveyor at this point and since we are still trying to find something that's acceptable to everyone why don't we go ahead and kind of leave it the way it is fight now until we finalize something. We had 36 and 20. MR. DICKERSON: Before I leave I'd just iike to say that I couldn't condemn their property in any way ~ said to Mr. Angel that the only access we had to the bungalow when we bought it was over that ROW and then up to the west side of that cottage and I think that ROW has been used for many years and I never wanted to institute a adverse position claim as Mr. Alunodina also I think it shows as a dirt road which is quite far south of the ROW and thaes the road that he uses and ~ use to get into the west side but I have cleaned up enough so I can get into the east side of the bungalow so ~ don't need that ROW so that's not a problem what I said to Mr. Angel maybe I should have pursued an adverse position claim because I'm sure my relatives for 70 years were using that property, you know that ROW. Anyway I didn't lry to condemn their property, I never used that word. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands, I11 make a motion to adjourn this hearing until April 3, at 6:30. Page 11 of '~ 2 Page 12 February S, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Special Meeting Public Hearing 7:26 p.m. AppL Ne. 5245 - GARY GERNS CHALR. WOMAN: We have a letter in the file to adjourn to March 6th at 6:50. iS there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands I11 make a motion to adjourn the Gems heahng until March 6 at 6:50pm. Page 12 of 12