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Home My WebLink AboutZBA-01/16/2003 HEAR SOUTHOLB TOWN BOARD OF A??EALS TRANSCPJPT OF ~{EARLNGS HELD JANUARY 16~ 2003 · (Prepared by Jessica Boger) Present were: Chairwoman Lydia A. Tortora Member Gerard ?. Goehringer Member George Homing Member Ruth D. Oliva Member Vincent Orlando Board Secretary Linda KowaIsld (present 9:30am - 1 k45am & lpm - 4:30pm) Seeretary ?au]a Quintieri (present 11:45am -ipm) ]?UBL[C HEARINGS: 9:30 am AppL No. 5215 - RONALD CASSARAo (Carryover from December 12, 2002). This is a request for a variance under section 33 & 239.4, based on the Building Departmenfs August 22, 2002 Notice of Disapproval, for proposed additions at less than 100' from the closest bluff line (east & northeast of dwelling), and demolish and build new accessory extending closer toward the easterly bluff line~ and at less than 100' approval of a nonconforming setback at less than 100~ from the bluff along the LI Sound and for an accessory building proposed in an area other than the required rear yard. Location of property: 30185 Cabot Woods Road, Pecouic 73- CHAIRWOMAN: ls someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? TOM SAMUELS, ARCH: How are you this morning? Congratulations to you Lydia. I subn~Stted yesterday, hope~ally not too late, revised site plan for Cassara, showing that 40' setback from the bluff that you discussed at the last meeting. CHAIRWOMAN: If you give the board members a moment to review that because we do have side. What's the closest setback on the east side Tom? it's kind of hard to see here. MR. SAMUELS: I would sayit's 25'. CHAIRWOMAN: And we have the garage that will be moved over a full 20'. MR. SAMUELS: Is that something that you wanted on time? CHAIRWOMAN: We had discussed that since it's complete rebuild. Soulhold Town Beard of Appeals Regular Meedn~ }uNto Hea~h~ MR. SAMUELS: RiVet. ~7 o~ser words~ ~se go, age wouldnk maes ~e sidey~d sefaack beckons MR. SAMUBLS: 2 ~aess ~ica we-~fi be censbde:e6 a ~er.S ysd~ Iserefora 2 needs tc }e tko aids y~d because ~¢s ~ accesseu apm%~2 ~n t~ze fi'erxt ye& ~rk has ~o be k ca~ Isa i msa~ 2:s a ~'~[e fi~ht there w~ e<~' ~b:gs~ bu<: as you see there% lots of soda ~sss so ~fit needs to be 251 C~WO~N: You'd probably have to be a li~le bk to t~ne so~gswest bet ~ 9~*~ we cma ~MBER OL~A: It's ~ f~back as you can get k? MRo S~GUELS: t is~ ~m~ER OL~A: ~ w~2 up ~lere yesterday and looked. 157~ so lee~- sf~out b]uffs l ready m~ ~d igs no~ in t~bly good condkion. Ifs a beautiful spol smd ljust wont ~oo'~r pecplds saf~!y MR. SA~CELS: ~zai is flze condition of i:e bl~)~ W~ <~ere t respnss ~om tl~e Soil Censawat[on feiks~ Pd be C!{A~O~N: We do ~ave that on tl%e recor{~ do you have a ca~ MR. S~ELS: I don"t Melee 40~ se~ms close, but our sense is that teat b?aff~s not eroding and hash% we jun: me'a tile 40' ihs was mentioned at the last meet{ns. CHAIRWOMAN: [ can ~ve you a brief summmv, They did a si~ct :nspection smd the blush ~eav!iy vegetated overall me of{se bluff on tko beads may~ glacier mcc~ ccbb!es which offer some protection does sppear the ~e~% does ne'r appear ini~: tide reaches the toe bluff sioi~ tides may reach, but hose's nc stabilization sresem here on ekber side }f(se birr5 that has been cu: downhill they are niy cut about 4' from the 5Mffs surface, they m'e ]el:? in tact. Seversl trees al lng LNo right Lop of %he biuf~' should a}sc ss ce} down. MEM3ER ORLANDO They are sa~ng ifs basically m good s~ape, just the drainage needs go k%o leeching pools. MR. SAMUELS: Right MEMBER ORLANDO: 7hatwculd cnhancethc eroslon. MEMBER OLDfA: Th~e's also that gully Sage 2 of 'i 28 Page 3 January 16, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MR. SAMUELS: That's actually the h~gh point, or ~e l~ne of the b~uffis ~e h{~ po~t ~en slopes back away eom it ~d the ~er ~e house moves away Eom ~e bl~ a~y ~e ~e l~d ~s ~d ~t's ac~Iy ~n a way ~nte~pfing ~a~ ev~ ~s ~ocafion ~s ~t~pting na~a~ &~age ~at goes ~nto ~at ravine so we need to ~ade ~e~d that so~ of c~ef~ly ~ order to m~e s~e that, that's ~o~er reason we'd l~ke to leave ~t c~osed to~e bluff edge so ~t's not ~ow~ on the s~te ~d th~efore more kn a hole. ~ER OLWA: I do und~st~d what that c~ be because ~at c~ ~ode away. CHA~WO~N: Do you have ~y questions M~ber MEMBER OL~A: CH~RWO~N: M~ber ~do? ~ER O~A~O: No. C~IRWO~N: Memb~ Goe~ng~? MEMBER GOEH~GER: CHARWOMAN: Mr. Homing? MEMBER HORN~G: No. CHAIRWOMAN: ~ing else Tom? MR. SAMUELS: No, other th~ the 20' if we need to. CHAIRWOMAN: And we will ~nco¢orate ~e condkions of soil ~d wat~ Mt;~n ~e dec~sion which is k~nd of st~dard operating for you. MR. SAMUELS: iii assume you do approve this if you conld just refer to that setback from this on thc cztst side so [he buih!ing dcpartmcnt doesn't assmne you mcan 40r }}-oln that linc eye.where because othe~vise, they would. CHAIRWOMAN: We'll speci~. MEMBER ORLANDO: Tom, I'm go~ng to assume you're going to move the g~age ~her south then? MR. SAMUELS: it's going to have to move ~her south then othe~,ise it's going to be i~ front of the house. Page 3 of 128 Southold Town Board of Appes s Regular Meet',n9 At.airy ifs ~ s~e location. !s ~i~ ~yone dsc in ~ ~adi~nc~ who would E~ ~o s~ ~ for or age. st the application? See~g no h~ds, Fi1 mak~ a motion clos~mg PLEASE SEE MNUTES FOR }SSOLUTiON seden 244A~ b sod on the 8ui]dng D~fs October 30~ 2ee2 Noffce of D~sapprov~ line, Location 2528 Pine Tree Road, C:~ieno~as 104-2=i2, HENRY SANTACROCE: As b~it tcd~ b-dk ~sout 4-5 yem*s ago %%Fnat happ~sd w~ lem~ed i wo~ld need a building p~Zt for fnis se l appli~ for a rsuilding Fe~ff~ m~d ie~zed One cf the comer {ecl{s is 33~5~. CHALRWO~N: Thefts ti~e closes{ MR. SANTACROCE: ~ffs fine closest pein% i~t ~n~ ~_cy told mc I hzd to come lore requesting g vmi~ce ~br fine setback in 'ie bgd~s& One of the reasons why Fm reqaesting a v~n~ce is fiat my house is sitTzaled se fm~ 5ack on the 2rep*trY whet_ i and the $om~ of the i~oase, t%ey tilted tlne house so tley cozid i ~aess view iht water eom_er oft!~e house ksslfis even closer to Ize bad< ling wbich is 28'6"i Tr_e only exit cut the deck sxea of my backyard. This is an open dock !4x30L CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Homing~ any MEMBER HORNNG: Tell us sgain bow you happen to build it without a pe~it? house, in ether ~oras. ffeoaknding and then ~ read an stale !2 News{ _y aoout hew people were having difficulty geuing {i~eir decks~ ~nat i did ,non was i asked my nei~acr dow~ at the bu{id{ng depa~en~_ d( i need a pontus for thls? ["m net se:ling my lzouse. doing fi:is on my own :c get this squared away. She said iii walk on it 2l need a centaur. what i did. There% no ulterior motive_ there*s no neap_bors in the back that temple:ned knowledge. MEMBER HORNiNG: !i certainly looks attached. MR, SANTACROCE: What I me~t was flee boards w~:e attached tc tl~e building itseli do that but- Page 4 a~ 128 Pa~e 5 January 16, 2003 SouthoM Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MEMBER HORN[NG: It butted right up to it, but not - MR. SANTACROCE: That's what I did. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Goekdnger. MEMBER GOEHRENGER: You have no Lntentior~s of enclosing LhSs at anytime or putting a roof on, screened ~n porch, or anyfl~g I/ke that? MR. SANTACROCE: No. MEMBER GOEHR1NGER: Beating that ~ m~nd I have absolutely no other questions. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Orlando. MEMBER ORLANDO: Mr. Santacroce, what do you do for a liv~g? MR. SANTACROCE: I'm a police o~cer. MEMBER ORLANDO: Coming Lnto compliance is a everyday thing for you. MR. SANTACROCE: That's why I'm here today. CHAIRWOMAN: Ms. Oliva. MEMBER OLIVA: My remarks would be the same as Mr. Goehringer's that you would not enclose it in any way or screen it in and remain open to the sky. Perpetuity l'm going to put that in the decision. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands, Ill make a mot/on closing the hearing reserving decision until Iater. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION 9:43 am App]. Ne. 5~84 - WI[LLI[AM SEIFERT. (Heating continuation from 10/17/02) Request for Variances under Section 242A & 244B, based on the Building Department's June 19, 2002 Notice of Disapproval. Applicant is proposing to construct additions / alterations to an existing dwelling with setbacks at less than 35' from the f?ont lot 1/ne and less than 35' from the rear lot line. Location of Property 7145 Soundview Ave, Southold 59-6-3. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? Page 5 of 128 GA~TT ST~NG~ ARCH: Good morning G~n-ett S~mng r~resontrzg WilE~m CF~WOMAN: At the l~t he~g we w~'e a ]htle concemefi 5ecsase we nosed fP_at ~n~re ~sad be~a S prior decisions on this prope~ ~ we wanted to check ?o see TX~s/: ??~e si~ms of fz~cse fha boo/nd ~ad de~ied ~c accessest a i2x20' detached accesso:~ addkicn at a 25' i'ont ysd print is !7,5. M~. STP~G: Thefts ce~ect as ~. ST~NG: [ fisou~t tlne i7.5 w~ what was ~mzted in fine ofi~mal valance w~m: dca CHAL~WOMAN: Not according to the records we have. ~ne records we have show t~zt the bo~d had ~ted a 20~ setback. Ifs possible ~at the encreac~m~r& the Ii21e porch epl~e-gy was ~ded lale:~ i den't kcew. ~R. ST~NG: Yes, FiT~ riel exactly celtai2 [ wasn:t invo]ved wish tie pr{ec': when tZe house was built or 2enspired at '~at time wi2 respect to that, but i did note that the szz~¢ey showed a i 7 depaff~ent considered that exempt under ikonS 30 s{. ff. sit~atlen or ~r_atever I dcn"t lo, ow wl~zat the deal is with that CHARWOMAN: On tie rea- yard line is 27 'flee closest on Stat clevated deck orotund? MR. STRANG: 27 is actually to the ste~s: the deck itseigis a iitfie hit ~adher ~ack tl~c that CHAIR%~OMAN': ~ ~cu ~;t the v, cq sR~u who:'., h s~,p ?:(,7osud dc~:tcd deck h xdvs 26 then you sec 27 and it juts out a little sit. MR. STRANG: Fs 2d to the steps, h's 2d from one set of steps fi-em t]r~e edge o7ile wetl~ds. That was for DEC dimension. To 'cite actual pond, iffs 28' in frae nord!west comer azd ifs to the steps and ifs 27' midway between there and lee propcsed porch that we asked fen And ap. in lhose steps would probably take off a foot or two to increase the distance by another or two to the aclua] elevated deck surlce ftselJ'. CHAIXWOMAN: My only comment is that the proposed addition is extremely similar to was denied before on the ~ounds of envkcr~menta! concmms mud ifs veu diOficalt to ao back and say wall here we are 20 years later and we're not concerned abot/: the environment. Page 6 af 128 Page 7 Januaw16,2003 Southo~d Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MR. STRANG: I can apprecinte that and I guess that's one of the reasons that I did in concurrence with this hoard go before the DEC and Trustees to see where they stood on this issue. Both felt that the screen porch being an elevated porch on posts and the fact that it was essentialIy being the majority of it was being built over an ex~sting gravel driveway felt that the envirommental impact was negligible and accordingly were granted permits. We've gotten permits from both the DEC and the Trastees to do what's shown here. The deck in question was ac~ally the original proposal that my client preferred was to have a terrace of grade which wouldn't have even required an action but that aspect before the board but the DEC said they'd rather have it elevated and not have any additional hard surface on grade. CHAIRWO~MAN: Because of the flood zone? MR. STRANG: They just felt it was better environmentally to have elevated decks so water can percolate through the deck surface and drip through the ground to have a hard surface where the water will mn offso with that understand'rog we propose it as a deck by the time we came to you since that was Lhe preference by the DEC. CHAIRWOMAN: I'd l~ke to see if the board members have any questions. Ms. Oliva? MEMBER ©LIVA: None. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Orlando? MEMBER ORLANDO: No questions. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Goehringer? MEMBER GOEHRINGER: We originally and ~ may have said this in the record before sent Donald Dermis back 2 or 3 times during the prior hearing for the construction of this house and we told him at that time to build us a house that would fit within the confines of the property, just so you are aware of that situation. Regarding this particular project which I'm not saying is diminimus in reference to it's environmentaI situation but I understand why the DEC is requiring wh~t is being reqLtircd and I think that's a positive step. The oni3 cc>hecta I have ~ot as much with the project as where are the people going to park? There is very limited parking there and by the co~xstruction of this you are taking away some of the parking from that driveway area. I mean it's the type of situation where if you blink you buy the house and you have to know where the driveway is. I don't foresee that you could accommodate more than 3 or 4 cars if you built this project if that, but we know the situation and I have to tell you that maybe the board would consider something a little less than you are proposing, but environmentally if you have those 2 agencies I don't have any major objection to the constn~ction. CHAIRWOMAN: Okay, Mr. Horning. MEMBER HORNINO: No questions. Page 7 of 128 Januaw I,~ 2~03 Southdd Town Board ¢ Appea:s Regular Meeiing Pub:ic Hearing MR. ST~NG: If~e bo~d is en~en~g a~ Mtemaffve relief vgfn ~spee~ ~o !~ ~ o~:_ or possibility of mwor~ng '~e ~veway '~o pro.de mor~ p~l~g Fm s~'E cmn mg~e ~at I don'~ thip& the o-~a' would haw ob~ctlon to that, Itc oriy conc~ I wohd lave ,~fth ~fil I t~e it bad~ m them. ~ey had no clh~l~nge oz I slouldn't say fn~y hal nc chaiior:g~ CHA~WO~N2 Is thee some~ng we ccuid do ~hout ~g 52e p!~zs t~:at k~v~ s. pprovgd by 5~xe T~stees ~d ~EC? ~. ST~NG: The o~y ob~ous ~Jug i could s¢~ fs '~e p~g wgz8 to mow 20 [~¢ somewhat to provide some additio2~ p~ng w~ch brings it closer to the easierr~ wef.~nds= probably no close:- ~han the z-8' wetlands to tlne no~dzeasterly comet' cf the sc:ash po:cZ, CHAIWOMAN: i don't ~:ow if thais des~able~ MR. ST~NG: But it may allow someone to p~l in mud p~x faring egst./~'d~:en ~ opposed to pulUng in forward. CHAIRWOM~N: 'Would you like to s~smit ~ gt~ge nlan for' that and we eau closa he~nns to vetch.tm mud then w~ wi!! close it officially o_: eo~ ;~W 6" ~. .... yo.. sub__2~ an altmmate plan for the MR. ST~NG: Showing the p~dng ch~ge - t c~. do that MEMBER ORLANDO: Also t just want to remind the board, tlze islet 71a7_ is deceiving, driveway looks like a lot of room but it's on a 30-de,ce angle. N/R. ST~AN(h Ifs r('t mz~:'kcd fro:r, thc mc, il. MEMBER ORLANDO: it's cn an hzclinatic2. MR. ST~G: The driveway is quite Oat at tzar poip/a MEMBER ORLANDO: i don~t recall that. i zecshi driving up to lt. ifs not ~ grade w?:h the road i dun't belicve. ] believe ifs Eighcr elevation. MR. ST~NG: I don't thi~ it's 'fi~at ~T:ach. i don't thip& it's as steep as you may recall, fZ a~othe: look s/: Page 8 of 128 Ps~e 9 January 16~ 2003 Southold Tow~ Board of Appeals P, egu~ar Meetir~9 Public Headn9 ~. S~G: Because I recall A berg pre~ level ~ you pu11 in thee. The ~ade next to the house east ~f~he ~veway ~s elevat~ ~d ~e*s a ret~ng w~i ~ere w~ stone decorative l~dscape w~l ~d some pl~ffngs ~d the t~e to the west of the ~ve~y ~d ~e l~d falls off to ~e east of~e ~veway ~e land falls offa ~e b~t ~ you go towed ~e well,ds, but ~ believe ~at d~veway ~s relatively level. U~o~ately ~e's no topo~ap~c data on ~s s~ey ~at wouM he~p. ME~ER O~O: II1 t~e ~o~er drive by. CHA~WO~N: We will close ~t to v~bat~ ~d muld you have that pl~ to us one week prior to Febm~ 6A so ~e bo~d c~ review ~t. ~ ~t~ate p~g p]~. PLEAS~ SEE M~TES FOR ~SOL~ION 9:55 ~m AppL No. 524g - EBWA~ V. WERTHNER. T~s is a request for a V~ce ~d~ Section 100-2~, based on ~e Build~g Dep~¢s November 20, 2002 Notice of Disapproval conce~ng a new sin~e-f~iy dwelling, ~der cons~cfion, for ~e reason ~at a po~on is less ~ma 35~ ~om ~e ~ont prope~ t~e. Location of Prop~: 180 Private Road ~12 "Windy Point L~e', Sou~old; P~cel 1000-78-6-3.3 (2 ~d 3.I combined). (Setback to bO~ead me~s code 75', ~nfi~ed by B~ld~ng CHARWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to spe~ on behalf of this application? PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ: Good morning, h's nice to be h~e when I'm aw~e. Just so you know I don't w~t to go into the nitty ~tty details but see the size of this file? This is the Weaner file ~om the time he went to con~act to p~ch~e this prope~y to today. This propeAy has gone t~ou~ DEC, T~stees, ~d Health Dep~ent. It st~ed out as 2 sep~ate bts, Broshota owned the prope~y ~d it was 2 lots. Mr. We~er bou~t it and merged it ~d ~t's t house on a combined parcel of the subdivision. What occu~ed ~s Mr. We~hner after all was said and done he is the general contractor on the house he is building the house himself and he hired a mason to ?our thc foundation and when linc lbuadation xt as pou~ cd. it was pro?crly sttdccd, tine su~eyor had properly staked everNhing, the mason accidenta]iy misread the stakes and put the fomndafion too dose to ~e road. ~at was to back up a little bit we have an average setback from the road because of the location of ail the other homes in this neighborhood. The average setback ofi~naliy if we took into accost right next door is a garage, a large garage that has got space above it it's a 2 ~ car garage, l~ger titan the house itseifis only at 15' from the road. The road is actually a 50' ROW, but the opening, the opening of the road actually allows for another 20' of front yard to Mr. Werthner and some of the other propeNy owners along the same side of the street. We originally thou~t there was a fl'ont yard setback of 26 but as it turns out, because we c~'t use the g~age, it was a front y~d average setback of 33.7. So we had ~ average setback of 33.7. k~en ~e foundation was poured, it was po~ed at 32.7 it was I' off. That would not be too si~ific~t except ~or fl~e fact that this house has s small porch on it. It's a Page 9 of 128 Southo d Town 8osrd of Apgeals Reguiar Meetin~ Pub!lc relatively sLmple n~%ow hOUSe because sg~n ~'; has ':c be sc~u~< ~o~ m~ weaez~ds, ~e~L~e~ ~o ge~ for me ~e d;s~mgs ofw~.at ~ e .... se ~s crag to rook Fke *~d v3% ca~ se~ MS. MOORE WehtneBdldingPermit. [~x~(youiaaveacoeyof¢:.eB~ld~g file~ Tha~ Bm~mg P~. was cbv:~usly s;oppec. MS. MOORE: The cn'c~st~ces here re~:y we nad ,ne octet_ c_ :,~,~v:ns ~e foundation ~d sta~ng over over ¢is small de,~ation which would have been a in 2 respeas one is ce%a!nly the cos': it wczdd nave ........ -,~ ~o~sm c_ cc_~<s themason, ti.~y__:M<e~oo-boosbuttwro ~, ~-~ ~ ~ ,-~- .~.~ ~ e~ .... ~.p m legal zees. More importantly in remowng a ..... m~:~z ........ s,~_~s ,,~. ~oundafion sc any time ms'~ yea comracrors ere often faced with this s~'mat;on, you really twice before JearinF u'o a foundation because it never works wci~ me second Pine. v a challenge ands,wn,': the great c.ouo that he's had over this pro'~eny._ , we ~:*:ew _m could go wrong, it would go wrong. G.ven thos~ 2 impor'mm reasons.~;"..:~s:~ c_ ~o. board, i~ s a re.~tiveZy reasonable reques, th~ caaractero~- +.~en n~o~__~oc. ....... ._ ...... ........ s a: closer to the road f ask a~_. of you zo go do~_ Wind_ y Polnt Lanea_~rx youL! ..... ~e~ ~ ~ '~o_ house actuafiylooks ~u~ ofkeep..g -"~ ~ ~- ~ *' ~ ..... ..... ..... ~ of setback. Vtsually. ~t does ',- .......... :, ...... ~-~, ' i ' -: .... -':~'~ ',' .~'~ circumstar cee. Page 13 of !28 Page 11 January 10, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing CHAIRWOMAN: Okay, what I have here is the building permit was issued for the house it was not issued for the porch foundation and that was based on the average setback on the same side of the road per code not across the street per code. The setback that was approved with the building permit was 33.7. That did not include the porch, though. MR. WERTHNER: Because of the calamity of errors that was happening, and I needed a place to live. MS. MOORE: He's homeless. He sold Bis house and is renting from place to place. MR. WERTHNER: I'm renting on a month to month lease with somebody right now. What I said, the building department said well why don't you apply for a variance for a later date for the porch this way at least you can in and get yourself organized, get the house built and then proceed in that fashion. I went and had a surveyor get me that average setback from the other homes. MS. MOORE: I'm just showing you that across the street is relevant in that you are going down the street and you are looking at both sides of the road. We did not use across the street for the average setback rule, but as far as the character of the area, my point was that both sides have very close sethacks to the road. CHAIRWOMAN: Essentially, what would the setback that you would be looking at? 25? MR. WERTHNER: That's correct. CHAIRWOMAN: The only comment I have is that based on your own information and based on your own expert testimony, you've stated that the average setback on that side of the street is 33.7 and so the foundation obviously 1~ errors occur. The board has never taken a hard or unforgiving line on such a thing, however, the porch would be forward of the existing setbacks on the road - on the same side of the road. Let's see what the board members have to ask. Mrs. Oliva? i~IEMBER OLiVA. Docs the porch ha¥c to be 6'S",cou[d it bejust a little bit smaller? MR. WERTHNER: I talked to the carpenter people and they said we could take a foot off which I think could maybe make a difference, 26' setback. MEMBER OLIVA: I know you're constrained because of the wetlands in the back that's why you're 75'. MS. MOORE: The error has been to the benefit of the environment and that we pushed away from the back. The DEC and Trustees would be thrilled. MEMBER OLIVA: It's an old Trustees permit though. Pagellof128 Southdd ?own ~oard of Appeals Regzar Meeth~; ~u~ic M~i~ER OLeAn You~w go~ ~ c~em one~ became ~i ~e hfon~.affon E have here ~s ~om i98Z MR. WERTi~ER: 2001 i t~c There sho~d be one fizere. Cr~iRWOMAN: Mn~. OrL~tdo? ME~ER ORLANDO: The oxi~n~ propose, the whole ko~se did it otz ~2c prop~:~ v/?_ ~S. MO0~: Yes. ~2e only ~g gat would i~ve req-a~ed a v~ance wo~d lava been oor~2 becs~ase i~ wo~d be ~croa~ng s lktle irz~o tko fc~daticn ~BER ORLANDO: V~n{ch is ~ a~%ou~2r~ ~r~ Bui!d~ng D~e?2 suggested separs/iLg Sue uwo to mi~e i~ reasonable ts expedite fne - MS~ ~OORE: Because they reco~ize ffsat we i¢ took a }ong f~Le to ge~: to ~ds ~o~7c Choy were ~ag to be acso~msdaffng~ ressonab]e~ ME~ER ORLANDO: Ne e~her CiiA~WOM~N: Ms God~nger? MEMBER GOEHR~GER: A!thou~ the ~-gidlng deng_~er2 t~es that line :Ze of one side of the street if you were to tmke similar tiara'es ar;d t~<e an average oft!e opposite side of tis street I thir~ you wil find much different measm'ements. MS. MOORE: Clos~:: MEMBER OOEHR~GER: Yes. So if you are w~lling ~o g ~ al 26' Mr. Wc~finner. i dc n't hsvc MR. WERTHNER: By ah means, tl~az~ yom 8HAIWWOMA~: Mr. MEMBER HORN~G: V/hen you say pu can make it 5'8' and drop the foe2. CHAiRVkOMAN: it's at 25.8 now: MS. MOORE: It's 25.9. I did k back at the office. 32.7 plus 6.8. Page 12 of P~e ~ 3 January '~, 2~03 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing CHAIRWOMAN: Okay let's see what develops. Is ~ere anyone in the au~ence who would l~ke to cogent for or ag~nst ~s appl~cation? Yes, would you come up? PA~C~ STEG~R: Fm Paffie~a Ste~. I l~ve at 470 Windy Po~t ~e. I o~ ~s private road ~at's ~n qu~fio~. He's abut~g-my prope~. ~t's a 50' road by about 479' long. ~ pay t~es on ~at road. I don't ~derst~d ~ow ~s ~ c~e about. [ ~ou~at he was 70' away ~om the wat~ ~d that wo~d ~ave ~vm ~m 35' ~om t~s private road ~d w[~ ~e porch I ~ou~t he w~ t~ng ~e porch out md Jt comes to l~ke you're sang 25/2~'. ~t's fi~t here. I don't ~d~st~d ~ey ~e bl~ng ~e fo~dafion m~, bm it's fi~t h~e, ~I ~ese me~ents ~e ~e ~d I don't ~d~st~d ~ow he d~'t have to go for a v~ce before ~d I was nev~, we w~t t~ou~q a one Trustee meeting ~d we never w~e notified of ~y second mee~ng ~d at ~bm time, ~s. Cook h~e had a question ~d we ~ou~t ~t wo~d be brou~t up ag~m ~d we nev~ w~e notified a second time ~d ~ don't ~ow ffyou w~t to ~ook ~t t~s. MS. MOORE: ~at s~ey does she ~ave because ~t should be 75' to ~e wetI~ds. CHA~WO~N: I bei~eve ~Js ~s the sine s~ey that's in our I believe what we ~e loo~ng at ~s the No~ St~ sn~ey. MEMBER O~DO: It looks ]~ke ~e s~ey subm~ed to for ~e b~ding p~t. CH~WOM~: ~e s~ey ~at you presented does show a 75' setback ~om ~e wetted ~owever the s~ey does show a 26' setback ~om ~e ROW. Real~y w~at ~e ~ conc~ as a neJ~bor what ~e yo~ pfim~ conchs? MS. STEGNER: ~e~ ~t's a private road, or ~ thou~t ~e roles were 35' setback ~d I feel that it's going aga~st the role number I ~d whe~ ~ came in here I ttmu~t it was 2 ~' I'm not going to tell him to t~e up his foundation for 2 ~' but now he's putting ~e porch back on ~at side, he's got plenty of prope~y on the side ~at he could put a porch that wouId- he's getting that much clos~ to o~ road, ~d me~wh~le IYe never bee~ t~en into consideration on on a lot of things ~at have been going on when it's my road and I ~ad 2 trees t~en down, we need access to the prope~y, but when they put the wail up we didn't realize it right aw'ay, we figured welt we have a che~ tree le~ that blocks the sound and hght from the mah~ fond ~nd gives us a little znore ?rivacy and a nu~nber of drainage isstics, l'xe got 2 i~icc big trees tla[xt will hello with that. They had cut axound the roots of the cedar tree and it toppled over in the wind so they really weren't taking any of my propeay into consideralion. MEMBER ORLANDO: So you are saying the cedar tree was on your prope~y7 MEMBER OLIVA: It's on the road. MS. MOORE: It was or} the road. CHA~WO~N: You're concerned that they may have alternate ~ea. Page 13 of 128 MS. STEGN~R: Woke consumed ~sat f~a'; po~fion o~t~e road was ~s ~-ea for ~nags~ MEMEER C~NDO: W~ G~e ~ association? MS, STEGNER: We ~e ~ good neithers ~_d you ~ow we Eels os-z. MEMBER O~AN~O: If ~h~:e was ~n associaffon~ ~ ~ou~ fi~ey w~ald help wi~ ff~e t~es on MS. STEGNER: MEMBER O~qBO: You c~ frae br~t by yo*~se~5 M~B~ GOEH~GER: Ma'am hew efide is :~:e ac~ pav~merx e: ffze read o: ~e - MS. STEGNE:: ~ gaess we m~nt~ - at ~dnts k~s 59~, but wk~e 2~~. Weff2~efs prop~a/is dooz/: l~-2Ot Like t say we k~pt k more rasffc bessase trees ~nd si~c~s ~e~s wkk drainage and k also helps to buff~r the soured of':~e cars 02 the main road and k ~ves us more 2ivacy road is approximaf:e~y ~-20~ - is tkat co~e~c? MS. STEGNEP~: Tie wide. of tlse road 3y lis prop~ is 53t MS. STEGNER: k's not asia!fy paved~ ifs a gravel road aboul i6-20'. MEMBER GOEHRrNGER: I concur with t~at i6-20' iS meanders back and face'n. The ROY! ~2beut SOL Tkerefore, fisat les~es 30-' to be divided on 5etk sides of ilo propexy is thai corrects CHAIRSVOMAN: No, ifs her pro?Ny. MEMBSi% GOEHRiNQSR: I understand it's her proper:y~ but {!zev have a ROW ovsr m CHAIRWOMAN: T~ey have a ROW ever it bui {soy donl have fights MS. STEGNER: Even witk rise ROV/~ i never was consuked until ike buiidoz~rs go i:~ and is had planned a circular driveway cfigina!iy and no one was saying ~r & Mrs S~-e~sr cam we d9 this c~e:t when tkey put the 2}undat!oo I was undo the andcrstand:ng v,e would have some and wc are reai~ ~ncrcd. MEMBER GOEHR~GER: ~na~ i'm t~ng to detemnine is tkaC from 2se saved pods!cs of tko road to tko applicants prop~y you have bas:.cally ~ 5* ffseres~sou]s- Psge ~4 o{ ~28 Pa~e 15 January 16, 20~3 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MS. STEGNER: About 30' I guess. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Of what we refer to as ROW that is unpaved is that correct? MS. STEGNER: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else who would like to speak for or against the applicant? Yes? DONNA COOK: My name is Donna Cook I live across the street from Mr. Werdmer's property. I l~ave concerns for and against it over there. I know Mr. Wmlhner is having a herd time I know he's really trying to keep things in compliance and get things going you can see from the stack of his paperwork over there. On the other hand I know my neighbors a long time and what's going on over there it seems 1/kn a real big lack of communication here. She does have 50' of road that she pays for. We were just talldng about how many of it is not lmw much footage is not gravel road. At this point there's no trees there, it's just a big puddle so basically the whole 50' is just becoming road now and she's kind of geWmg the feeling that that's what's going to happen instead of having that big area that was all trees and bushes to attract all that water and allow it to seep back in without rnrming towerds the back of the propmly is no longer there and with the original plan she's afraid it's going to become part of Mr. Werthner's property to deal with as you will because that's what they see going on right now. I kind of feel for both parties here me being stuck in the middle ~ did kind of graut Mr. Wmthner in order for him to get his Health Department permits ~ allowed him to purchase my weI1 to get me on public water so he could get his Health Department permits, We're still waiting to get done with that deal it was supposed to be closed last January but Mr. Wc~rthner's come across a lot of problems and he hasn't settled with me as of yet. I'm not afraid that he won't, so we've just been kind of going thrnngh the motions here but everything is starting the hang and it makes everybody in the neighborhood a litde nervous. We just want the board to be aware that there are a lot of changes going on the property that should be at least discussed with the neighbors in the area especially since she owns the property that someone should knock on her door and go hi do you care if we knock down some trees or put my driveway here or whatever. Basically at this point there's been so much changes going on there on Mrs, Stegner's property that there are no trees there. There's one tree IeS[ rhc~e. I khad ol~ ffcel t~¢i- both parties here alqd [ hope th~:t ex cryhody canlcl Maid of get together and come to some mutual a~eeable thing here, at least to be able to speak to each other. I think that would be nice. CHAIRWOMAN: Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who would like to speak for or against this hearing? HOWARD LUDECKER: My name is Howard Ludecker I reside at 370 Coke Dr. in Southold, I also have a property on Windy Point Lane. Can I address another co~:cem with this property? From the time the bulldozers have come in the property has been seriously flooded. A concrete retaining wall was put in which simply contains the water. I don't think the water has been drained for 2 months. I'm really concerned about an adequate septic system on that particular Page15of128 Sou. o c ~ OWn BO~.r,~ ~, Appe=L R~9~ gr M~,~ ~ ~ ~b~o ~ .~.,..g prop~xy. Fve been visZZr_g that spo: Mnce the 1953's was issued for t~s ~ ~dc~ar proper~ md my m~n concern living~-~ ~or~y ~ = ~='=:~,~x CHAIRWOM~%: ~ - ~ _ x h~{ you ve~ much. - .... ' . **~ o . ~ ... PETER M~TSHL~SE: Pm Pets MiehutsM, Pm 'fi~e nei~foor ff~% next door to Ed's CHAIRWOMAN. T~m< you vow much M~ Moore. MS. MQORE: ljustw~attoaddressa~ew ~-'~ ' ' ; ..... -" .... to be ~mbative wkh ~'s. Ste~¢n I Zxow Fve spo/~ to n~- a co~p~ ~ ..... she's however we ~ave to ge'~ access for cons'~cciion pr~oses :lo got access is t!o pro7 association t~e c~e o~ ~e ~oa~, so she s ~o= ~zs{e~_~ ~_L ~_~e e~c_~s_v,~ c~s. of it increase the acreage on her propexy. -~en ~ - ~ ~; '- ~ ~ ~" ~? '- *~?~ - . ~e c~nxfied ...~.~mgs ~ noticed that there had 3eon a 'smnsfer 70~ve ir_e- roac~ --~.~ ~r~:_e o~"~- ...... ' os.' an~hing. The Building Deoarm}cn ,aid st( p whm you ars Comg and you soo wha[ yon 81 e doing even though the consequences of sloplstxg k the consecmences ~e las oreper:y Nell mid ~t do~s.: ~ look good fi~qt now. The water_as" ..... _~ vzm_~ s*~mm yo~ ~. ~ got me evec 'where is no': his ccing, ifs by comanance o~ ice rules and t ..... a .... t_~ Buildsg Depar:r~er:. as enviror=ment a~ eEfects. '-'~ms: was reviewed yew cm e2%~y--. 7~ ~by ':~_e ~, yeti cone ~ tly by T:~stees_ and the HeaMz Depmimem-. We pabn. w~.~ cmm~ x. :e~/_~, Mrs. Cco~ wasn1 she ~c ap~xe~. ~o~ a o~Zdmg pe~m~ and ~.~e ~na_ng ~par rz ....... ge_ess :f sue nec sa_c my ·_ne or my uepenuL:g on ~,~e s~z~ cff~e adc, hon, :Tzy or may -~a* ~ = 128 Page ! 7 Seuthold Town Board of Appeals Re§uiar Meeting Public Headn9 to public wat~. ~s way she a~ally got ~e benefit ofo~ pang for her hoo~p w~ch is not ~ ~s~fic~t cost, it's about $3400. Ag~n, we have complied M~ ~1 m~o~ent~ mles md ~ proced~es. CHA~WO~N: ~e ~e~ ~at have bern ~t do~, ~e ~ey ~ h~ 50' ROW? ~. WERT~R: ~ere w~e no ~ees on her prope~ cut dom because ~ told my con,actor that. Thee ~e 2 ~ees ~at feet do~ ~n a no~east~ back ~n Decemb~. It was probably due to some of the excavaflon, maybe some of the roots were cut. O~er ~ ~hat, ~e's reeds~ there's loads of poison i~ which I have sc~ from co~ng ~n comact ~th. It's a re~ [~nd of a thee, it's ~ad ora mess. ~ese 2 ~ees ~at fei~ w~e d~g myhow, ~ey w~e en~ned w~th poison ~ ~d other roots gong up to ~e top. If ~ng it's going to be ~ Jmprov~ent what ~ cm see ~d ~ f~ as ~e s~fic syst~s, I w~ tom it w~ probably gong to end up cos~g $~0,000 because I ne~ 5 pools md I have to t~e out a ~endous ~o~t of so~t ~d replace it Mth ~at. ~d you ~ow some~g ~y, 1 nev~ ~ow ~at ~ey o~ed ~e prop~ ~fi~ Ste~ cme out b~ause we went out - does ~e map say she o~s ~t? No. It's 50' ROW roM. I nev~ ~ew ~at was h~ prop~. ~d when they cme up ~d asked me this I was totally t~en aback. I was l{ke oh my god how c~ this possibly be c~ somebody o~ a p~ece of prop~ ~n ~ont of my house whm h~ house ~s 300' down ~e road, she's ~_at f~ ~om the comer of my prope~. ~m go~ng l~e how did I get ~vo~ved ~n ~is. ~ coO~'t believe ~t. MEMBER O~DO: Mrs. Moore, not to ~t~pt, we have a huge ag~da today. Is it possible for you ~ to update each o~h~ ~ ~.e hallway ~d t~k about it maybe negotiate, re~mb~s~ents, na~al screening. MS. COOK: Ac~al~y I had ~o[h~ cogent plebe if someone would c~e to l~sten for a few minutes, I would Hke to be able to address that. My building pe~t was issued before they applied, ~d if Mr. We~er was not aw~e that Mrs. Ste~er owned the road why did Mrs. Moore send her a notification of the zoning bo~d? We also have p/c~res of tk.e prope~y where the ~ees c~ae do~ the roots were cut ~t was ~een we have p/ct~es in ~e s~me~Jme the whole thing was ~een ~t was not d~ng 'Gey were well aw~e that the prope~y was owned by someone else. We did speak with Mrs. Moore, she said it herself at the board meeting way back when he was first twing to buy the prope~y he didn't even own the prope~y yet. She knew Mrs. SI%ncr owned thc road, she discussed wJt/1 Mrs. St%net ~md her co~:cc~ ns rthou~ thc mad. property floods always. It did not just sta~ to flood when they stazted construction, it has always flooded ~d that's why c~e to the meeting to discuss flooding problems at that time ~d retaining walls m~d issues of &ainage which is why the road isn't supposed to be touched. E was the only little bit that we had left that acc~ulated a lot of water from the road now it's eye,here. So all of these issues w~e brou~t up. This is news to me. About my well I own 2 pieces of prope~y. They did not noti~ me when we had the ist meeting because they notified Mrs. Stegner. They said well her prope~y abutted his so they didn't need ro notify :~e because mine's on the other side of/t, but they did. The well that i oftkred him is not so I can hook up to public water, it's so I'll never be able to use the water on my 2nd piece ofprope~ which has ~other building on it. So ~ did not give up ee h~ts to the well that I ~ using. I'm going to continue to use my well. l ~ not hookip~g up to public water. I am allowing them to p~chase Page 17 of 128 Southdd ¥own Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Sub]~a Heafm9 '~ial well ~om me because ~ was gdng to hook up to k 2z the ~itm-e w}_er~ ] was done with o~ cons~cfion. A]i ] did was a21ow ~m to p~chase flsa we2 so that ingmad cf hoddng up doite }le~e a~d eye.one was wax aw~'e ofw~at tko sitcaIion was in fsa~: ~-ss bafozs CiL&~V¢O~: Because we do have a v~ hea~ ageid% [els- MS, COO~: ~e o'~er +~/mg ~s ~aat '~se ceracol was s~pposed fo be done wi2c i?Zs T-e~] 5~c~ ~e money was supposed to be zeieased to tr.e at ~e ~i~:e we closed on '&s 2zepsxy what% b~ng m~ipulated ~n the ~em [ v/as cor~forrable 13 re[autos ago, now P~l a cease.ed. de.ed on h~ preper~ piease s~emdi a pi~a for reconSmacfiex om h. Please s-ab~: a pi&l for r~ en~rsac[~eni [hie flsa area at 26~ as I said before by ye-Q- own iestmoily you have stated existing setback a-: the read ~s 33 ysuYe as~ng for a va!~ce down So 32~ You cbvio,~ly have off~sr options for a proposed garage. A ce~ain ~ou::c of~d~ds is nei~oo~$od disp=~e, a cermh ROVf ~s her RO~P~ Yes yoga have access lo ~he prop~ you do nos hays acsess ~:o sub,it ~kose ~:angement% weld< iog~hm- ~nd s/amir tkose ~rmzgem~r_ts to ti'ia boa:d so the bom'd san m~e a conclusion ffzat a ~mzt of 2ds valance will not iimsact tlcs cor~smurlzy or 'ss s deifirmnt to '~der the s~asd~-d. Is that skay~ MS, MOO~E: Thaffs fins. We can srovide whm wcu!d be a indscspe plan fo~ fire road CHAIRWOMAN: A recons~acticn nlan ~or ~ny areas thc" have been- MS. MOORE: Keep in mind fins before i': was bramble sxd there were some small abm:cs. pr% may. RZe m-e ~oing ~c ad~ um fins heanng. An}qhmg else? MS. MOORE No. F!i ~usz give you tlce restoration plans. CHAIRWOMAN: To prevent ~nher flooding and no fu~:h~' encroaJmment on fine pt!rata ROW. ~leis hearing wi5 be adjourned until 6:33 Febnasry 5~h MS. MOOXE: k ~lli jun continue tc iook tim way :t coos tlen secausc wa ye jusl delayed thc hes~ng, lust so you undersiand, we carl touch tko prope7~y. Page18 cf128 Page 19 Januaw t0, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appes]s Regular Meeting Public Hearing MR. WERTHNER: NOt for nothing, but the kmprovements have to be dor~e and I sfilI have 3 bulldozers in there. When I spoke to your husband, Dan- CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Werthner, Mrs. Moore, we- MS. STEGNER: I'm not aga/nst Mr. WertSmer bultdk~g, I just fee~ that - CHAIRWOMAN: We understand that and between now and when th/s hearLng is adjourned on FeBruary 6~ at 6:30, Mrs. Moore and you and Mr. Wmt~mer the neighbors are going to work out a plan to reconstruct that area to protect it to prevent any ~rther flooding. We'll see you then. 18:33 am ApgL No. 5227 C~ARLES & MAUREEN BUCKEL. This is a request for a variance under section 33, based on the Bu'dd~ng Department's September 16, Notice of Disapproval Appticant ~s proposing to construct an accessory sMmmiag poo~ in an area other than a rear yard. Location of property: 2695 L~ttle Ne& Road, Cutchogae ~ 03-10-2. L CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would I~ke to speak on behalf of the application2 CHARLES BUCKEL: I have a couple of things to de~iver to you. CHAIRWOMAN: Do you have homework? MR. BUCKEL: ~'m a teacher and my students are probably glad that you are holding me up here. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Are theyorig/nal affidav/ts? MR. BUCKEL: They are original affidavits I was supposed to bring to you for the postings and the ma~lings. Those are the signed receipts, those are the pictures that were requested. CHAIRWOMAN: We'll pass this down the board. Tel1 us a little bit about what you plan to do. MR. BUCKEL: I think I have a peculiar situation. I have a rather strange shaped piece of property and by definition I have 2 front yards. Althougt'~ when we bought the property we thought we did. It goes for 450', but because there is a small dirt road in the back called Rosen Road, it's an undeveloped road. In fact ~t's only on paper, there's no road there at all. ~'m trying to put a swimming pool in my quote backyard and I haven't got one. What I'm requesting is I guess to have my backyard redefined somehow or another. CHAIRWOMAN: We have a request for a variance to locate the accessory swimming pool in an area other than a rear yard. We had reviewed this and what we see is 2 front yards, by code. MR. BUCKEL: I understand, it seems a technicality. Page19of128 ~R OL~A: Ne. ~ mtdarsia~ ~s M~3ER OFf.NDe: ~ls ~s just ~re~c~ 2 ~ont y~ds, MR~ BUCi~L: Ye% just because ofe~e way ~%ey ]aid ~ke prepare' ~r: ~n ord.: is gcc ~ lets of the * acres, ~. OL~A: Did you know abo~d: fha paper roads l~ BUCI~L: Yes ifs on my smwey ~d I l~.ew k was t}.ezs ~e-a~c w~en [ v~sked ike prop~ I th{~ ii was p~ of the ~abdivision pi~s ~:itislly pr&sffsly tc allow access to tlae other co~mecmd rise see~ to the house it wou!dnk have be~z~ a ~r~oler_. 7 dcrJt w~t ?he sos[ 2_s/: close to ~y house ~d ~ desk w~Z~ that much de~King. ~ w~: so o3~ r22' aprons for :r_a~se a sunsoom_ laser, so i ~usf- wantee to have tlne pool in tko bad. yard. MSMBER ORLANDO: Fhere% ne plans in t~se ~slure 2o 'c~:ge {ice [sis tlat were englnaZy from a scbdivisien. MR. BUCKEh: Theft not oossible. F::M~ER ORLANDO No ct:~u: 'Just-o:' CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Homing, MEMBER HORN~G' TMs paper road. {hafs '~:_y you're sited. 5er the 2mnt yards MR. BUCKEL: That's eon'oct. ~sat read in {%e back is just p':;~ on the surgeys ~{ the time 57e 3 io.s were subdivMed My prope'qv be?eno re span 25o2s LNie Neck Road to that octet rc ifs odd. i hax, e a huge bac~ 5ar:~. ~ m t:-y}ng ~c cai ct a 5ac~ yard. CHAXRWOMAN: Mr. Goeking~r. Page 20 of !28 Page 21 ,January 18, 2003 $outhold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Headng MEMBER GOEHRINGER: On tine survey wh'~ch you submitted in reference to the pending pool - what is that 8 ½' strip reserved for possible future road? MR. BUCKEL: Good question, I think that's standard because I see it on the front yard too. Reality is ifs never going to happen I think the town just reserves the right to have a little ROW there so they can widen Little Neck Road and Strosen Road at a later date. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: This is a cardinal situation that we normally see in Nassau Point. You are several miles away from Nassau Point, so I don't know. CHAIRWOMAN: ls there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until Iater~ PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION ~0:37 am A]ppl. No. 5263 - JOHN & LAUREL KIRMIlSH. This is a request for a variance under section 244, based on the Building Department's October 24, 2002 Notice of Disapproval to make additions and alterations to a~ existing single family dwelling at less than 15' on a single side yard setback, and less than 35' for total side setbacks. Location ofproperb.~: 15955 Main Road, Mattituck, parcel 115-1-d. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? And we do need the affidavit of sian posting. DON FELLER, ARCH: I have that. I'm Don Fe~ter, I'm the architect for the project. CHAIRWOMAN: Good morning. MR. FELLER: The Kirmish's are here if there's anything 1[ can't answer. I think it's a pretty straightforward issue. There are 2 requests for the existing house. It's a 3-bedroom 1 ½ story house built about I958. This house is pre-existing nonconforming now with the new setback distances. When it was built it was 10' si(lo yard 6ut;il of 25 on the xxest side tlnafs o~xe elmer 1.7. we're extending the existing setback- CHAIRWOMAN: ~nat's 1 I.d existing and you're proposing with a 1 -story addition that will bring it to I 1.7. MR. FELLER: They are on a slightly angled location there it would give us 1/10th cfa foot more than the minimum amount - 11.6. This is an additio~ to the fl-out bedroom. There's one bedroom on the first floor, two bedrooms on the second floor. There's really no aitematives to add on to this addition, no other places to go except towards the front yard. Let's see, relief there is 3.3' request to the new setback minimu, m of 15' on the west side the existing side yard is 28.7. We are requesting an eight foot addition to that side into the sideyard it would give us 20.7'. The Page 21 of 128 F~e 22 Sou:hold '7ow~ Board ¢ Appea!s Regu~a: Meefa~ PuN.~c problem thee ~s o'~* ~o~ai se':ba~_(s need to add u~ to 35L This would p/s cs 32.F rgq~.esr, We ~e sJlowed 22 flat space a 503 ad.~tion. O,~ recuesr is 8' ~ld that's 2.7' zei~efof MR. FELLER: 32.3. CP~WO~N-: I have 32.i. Essentially, fL~ere's no ~n~ge in ~he de~ee o~ ~e e~t side, on fLze west side ~ie proposal you Mil still be confo~ning if you coals!der Ms. Oliva~ MR. PE~ER: We tied gtematives and desi~s ~;Zch jug; donh woi, [1 just dossn't This is a l-s~o~ addition or. both sides, t% a i-s~ow addison on ie v/esi wf~l 8 needing there a~d we dorl need 4 or 6~ a~d weYe asZxg for 8. W-e are es~sg for 8 weuldn*l De a~y pod :o us. CHAiRWOV~N: Mr, ONande. MZMBER ORLANDO: }oas the new extension encroach on the existing diveway, or does look like it ]us~ comes shy of it about c V:' ikom uae house. MEMBER ORLANDO: ~ does not encroach upon d~e driveway. 7hs~ was my cuest!on. other quesSons. CHAIRWOYfAN: Mr. MEMBER HQRNiNO: You sa:fi you ~xolored alcrnat~e p,~;ns such as Pacge 22 of 128 Pags 23 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearin9 MR. FELLER: Such as a smaller additions to make it work with a 5' allowabIe on the east side. It's hardIy useful at all especially with a porch on that side. It's really a walkway, a big open walkway and it is probabty out of scale that type of undersized porch. MEMBER HORNING: For example you couM put that on the north side? MR. FEILER: That's a design we explored, ~t's still not an acceptabIe or workable situation vdth the kitchen and everythLng else that's going on and rooflthes and everyth/ng else that's going on into d'Js house. ~t's really the only natural alternative. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. GoetnSnger. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I know the house vc~y wall, I go by it many times a day and I have to tel1 you that the plan looks pretty acceptable. I think you did a good job. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else Ln the audience who wouId l~ke to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands, H1 make a motion closing the hear~g resenting dec/sion until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION 18:45 am AppL No. 5253 - RITA M. ,JONES. Tiffs is a request for a variance under section 244B, based on the Build~ng Departnaent's October 1 d, 2002 Notice of Disapproval concerning proposed additions/alterations to the existing dwelling, portions ofwtSch vdll be less than 10' from one side yard setback and less than 25' for total side setbacks. Location of property: 1335 Island View Lane, Greenport 57-2-15. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? PETER STOUTENBURG: I'm Peter Stoutenburg, the agent for Mrs. Jones and here to take any questions. We did get a letter from a neighbor. I don't know if you have a copy, I made one for you if you didn't. CHAIRWOMAN: Yes we received it. MR. STOUTENBURG: I tried to get a hold of Mrs. Jones this morning after I picked up the letter to see if it would be okay with her to get a copy of the plans if the board felt it necessary to show the neighbor what she's proposing. Since we weren't filing for a building permit until we got your approval, we don't have a complete set of plans but we have a little elevation of what this one story addition would look like. CHAIRWOMAN: It looks like you have a L-shaped house and you're trying to square it off. That's a 1-story addition because you already have a - are there any questions, Mr. 14orning? Page 23 of 128 PaSa 24 January ~,~ 2CO~ $ouiho[d Town Board of Appeas Re~uiar Meetin~ ~ub~o Hear~s~ ME~ER HORN,-G: No. M~ER GOBii~GBR; Pet~ in ~s pl~ p~t{mg a rsv~se g~ale ~md ifs stiE l~s~o~z. ] M~. STOUTENBL~G: Yes~ y~d at al~? M~, STOUTBNBURG: [t matches the exis~ng ove~ha~ CHA!R~OMAN: Mc~ Orlar_de M~BR O~ANDO~ No ques!ess~ M~i~ER OL~A: No cuesiisns. CHAIRWOMAN: is there ~yone else ~n the ~adience who would like ~o spea~ far or against the appl{c&ion? Seeing ne h~ds. 21i m~e a motion closing the kezSmg i~eseNing decisies until PLEASE SEE M~JTES FOR RSSOLL-21ON sect;on 242A_ basca ox :he 3uilding DebaRmcn, s October 9. 2082, amended December 16. 2002. Notice of Disapprovak concerning proposed additions/alterations to rite existin~ dwc!ins~ podions of which will be less than 15' Porn the side property iqne. ~d less th~z 35' ioml s:de ysds. on this 25. ~03 sc. fL nonconforming sized parcel. Location clp:oper:y: 2145 Haywa':srs Read. Cutch( ~ue 1 i I-7-3. CHAIRWOMAN: is someone here who would Nbc ~o sseak ~n be},a!foftke appiicSmnl MR. OSLER: My ns~e is Scs2 Osier. My wife w~.ts me ts We you the ce:dified mail from peoNe we sent letters m. Before these were scm we were t~ing ro be nroactive e~d we went ts all ofo-~ neighbors ~nd -~e reviewed all our drawings wkk them. and tkey review Sage 24 of 128 Page 25 Janua~ t6, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meetin9 Public Hearing and said they have no probteb~ with it. She hasn't returned this I don't lmow if she's in Florida or she% not back, do you need this? CHAIRWOMAN: Yes. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Madame chairperson ~ had a long discussion with Mr. Osler sometime ago regarding this application and I don't know if he wants to go into the entire si~uation, but these people have been run around. CHAIRWOMAN: I kind of read through the record. Essentially you thought that this did not need a variance and then apparently what happened is you decided to do a whole new foundation there. MR. OSLER: I think there was a big miseommunicafion. We went to the Building Department and explained to them what we were doing. We had a prelimhiary plan. The house we are talking about originally ][ believe it was a ranch with a detached garage. The previous owner attached the garage with a roof and made it a breezeway between the house and my garage. There's no foundation, there's no footings, there's nothing under there. We are now a family of we have 2 kids and we just converted a master bedroom into a living room, so we are Jiving in very fight quarters. We are trying to give o'~selves a living room so we can get some space. The idea was to just take down the existing garage and breezeway and build a big family room in it's footprint. We went to tine Building Department and explained all this and because we are going to dig down for footings anyway-, we are going to put a basement [here. CHAIRWOMAN: Will that be a Call basement over the 22x29' new addition? MR. OSLER: Yes right now it's just a slab and we are going to put a basement under there. At first the Building Department told us we might need a variance and our drafisperson told us we might need a variance, so we applied for one in June. Then I got a message on the phone from someone in the Building Deparlrnent saying hey, I've got good news, you're building on the same footprint you don't need a variance. So we went with our plans and brought them in the middle of September. We gave them in took no exception except that aow we have a deck and they said bey the deck is inside the setback so you need a variance fbr the deck. ~ said forget it I'll take the deck off c~nd we will apply for a vari:~nce at a laler cla~tc because we wamted to ge~ dais ',hiug going so we could build through the wintertime because as everybody knows, rentals during the summertime are prohibitive. That was the whole intent. When we re-submitted the drawings with the deck crossed out, the Building Department said you know we have to apologize, we didn't grasp what you are doing here, you do need a variance. CHAIRWOMAN: What apparently triggered it is the fact that you are demolishing that part of the building and you're doing all new construction putting in a full basement. MR. OSLER: rt's an increase in nonconforming. The house is what you are calling an existing nonconforming. Page 25 of 128 Paae 2'8 Ssuiho]~ Town Boa~d of Appea s Regulai~ Meet[n~c Pubic HeazJsg CH~RWO~N: Exactly. ~r:at Frs shewing {s a 22x28' new addlen lhaS weald be 4-.6~ ~o~ tD~ prop~ MR. DSLER: Do you have f~e most rece~ s~-~ey. I me~n ~ig yon sgd ~s p~: af~ie new sddMon and pa~ of tlc pro7 esed new deck that requires a CP~!RVEOMAN: Yes. CHA~WOM~: Yon ~e pt~'nNg on d~oiisl{ng Eze whose iaa~ of Ge MR. DSLER: We ate gong to tg~e the ~no]e 22x29~ MEMBER ORLANDO: V~clh is pre-existing. MR. DSLBR: Yes. ~_~at~s '~e breezewszf m~d ~t~e g~'age and we are tgdng h away. ~. OSLBR: We ~e go~ns to sm a basemerl 'a~der~eai~ ~cd 5cild in the saree CHAIRV?OMAN: 2¢% see wha'c hasn~:ls. MS. MEMBER OLFVA: No_ ] thiz%{ he exo!ained his CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Orlando. M~N ~BER ORLANDO: No quesnoxs. CHAIRWOMAN ~r. Ooehrinser. MEPiBER GOEHRNGER: ~ had as I said a ieng discussion wiIP: Mr. Osiec on ~hte pNene_ been re the property twice. I underst~d thek problem, lf{h~re {s not a major cci~p!aix% tile pe{~_bors. I wRi go &cng wkh the applicS~on. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. MEM3ER HORN~G: Is it feasible to 8ye us mere efa setback such as 8b Pags 26 of 128 Page 27 January 18, 28(}3 Southoid Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MR. OSLER: We were asked that and what, I think you have our drawings, the staircase that leads down to the basement is really only able to be along that wall that is closest to the setback and we are just trying to keep that room as accommodating as possible where a couple of couches and a TV set. Right now we are hoping we can do it as is. Is it feasible? I guess 1[ should concede that it is. But we are already living in a cramped space and we are trying to make it as big as possible because that would also make the basement that much smaller. CHAIRWOMAN: ls there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands, I11 make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION ]18:52 am AI~¢. Ne. 5250 - .~ & C BRADY II[[Et6ZOG. This is a request for a variance under section 244B and 239.4B, based on the Building Department's October 15, 2002 Notice of Disapproval concerning proposed additions/alterations to the existing dwelling with: (a) a front setback at less than 40', (b) proposed rear yard setback at less than 35', and (c) less than 75' from the bulkhead at it's closest points. Location of'property: 250 Williamsburg Drive, Southold 78- 5-8. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? JIM FITZGERALD: Myname is Jim Fitzgerald. This is another one of these sit~aafions where we are trying to make improvements in a situation that is lef[ over from the old days appare~atly when there weren't any significant zoning restrictions. The existing house is relatively small and owners are interested in making it into a full time house by mainly adding a master bedroom ~vhicb is the addition on the front of the house adding an attached garage inside of the house and a deck in the rear. The problem arises from the fact t~kat the ROW from Williamsburg Road hms through the middle of the proper'Ly and the house was originally built very close to the existing canal As a result of those 2 things, the additions that we are applying for a variance for. The additions are not unreasonable and the change iz~ appearance of the property will not be significant from the standpoint of the visual impact on the front / road side of the property, the o])]y addhion w/il be the g~tra~c. Thole will be vehicles palrked ia that area now sc) I think that will be an improvement as far as the neighborhood is concerned. I think the property on paper is certainly large enough to support the house we are suggesting and as I said the problem lies in the front of the house and the fact that the - CHAIRWOMAN: It is difficult to hear, and we won't pick it up in the transcripts. I understand your problem with the ROW. We need to do some housekeeping. The NOD states that the existing dwel!i~.~g is setback 30'. That does not show on the survey that you have shown us. Is that - in your state:nents you indicated it was 33'. What is the setback from the ROW? · MR. FITZGERALD: 21'. Page 27 of 128 C!~WOMAN: ~c s~f~ack f~om ':l:~ ROV/? M~ FITZGEraLD: On pap~ -'- CHA~RWO~N: ~e edge oftk~e ROV7~ ~nat is lira s~fsack? MR, FITZGB~D: 21~ Cic~OMAN', it doesn% odd up ~to what% in ~mnl e~us. ~ F~ZGEP~LD: h~ what CHARWOMAN: VTe spew ~s~ t~ze distance ~om fi'~e edge of'it ROV/accerdin8 to fzs NOD is exisfir~g 48. co,ceil MR. FiTZGE~LD: i donk }czow~ Fd have ts lock it um of what Nu kave ~g fe Bui[dng O~a~ment ~_d frae p~ens we have izl ~e:~5: of us ~e differ~r_t. ~affs wky ws se {z~ng 're gc a des record, MR. NTZGE~LD: The sppticafien to tko Bui~dng Dep~mr: was based upon a which i crow wklhout fine benefit ofhavin6 a cuxenr valid su~wcy if we st~_ on tko basis el a smwey :hat was done mm:y yeers ago mud had obviously cenain dlscretanc~es which i noted but none of the sox we are talking abou: now. CHAIRWOMIN: Ire su~wey was updated a~er t%e NOD was issued. MR F!TXOE~ALb: mis survey was do:~e after the NOD ]: what i'm measuring now. CHAIRWOMAN !t still doesnt ~how the distance of the RC t~ it is esfimale6 a~ 38'. 2d like to see thai on the sm-~ey if we could. The proposed Sbxl2' deck cn the sc_wey yours snov lng a set%a~ at 21' at the closest point vc fie bull~ead_ ~s thai consol? MR. FITZGE~,LD: Yes it% cot~cc~ as far as i l~now, i t~ast thc CNAIR~VOMAN: Yoc have ~x cx!stina- setback at ?he dcsesz poin~- of the house ~fbF. no~ wan: to bc 21 from the bulkhcac Lefts sec what happens. Ms. Cliva. MEMBER OLIVA: Does the deck have to be in that oosition because k's not a level s~fcack. was there~ ii just ~rons down. Does rhe deck have tc 'de ~ ~ -; ~ '-~;'-'~ ~ ' t~a~ w.d~ cod~. ~. ~ a~ alloh~er ~82~ say nage 28 of 128 Page 29 January 16, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing on the other side of the house instead of being right against the - because it drops off here, you just have no room whatsoever and you are asking for a fair amount of a setback from that bulkhead. Ies only 21' and les supposed to be 3¢ or 35L To me thaes rather extensive. Is there any way of putting it on the other side? MR. FITZGERALD: I tkimk we tried that. JOE HERZOG: i'm Joe Herzog one of the owners. The house runs not parallel with the canal ies slightly tilted to put the deck on what I assume is the side weYe adding to you really wouldn't add to the view at all The whole idea is getting the view of the canal and going down to the creek. We*d be looking at the neighbors house, we~d actually be much closer to the neighbors house which I think would be opposed by the board as well because we~d really be right on top of the neighbors house. CHAIRWOMAN: The bottom line ts you're asking for a considerable variation in the code. The code is a 75' requirement you're asking for 21'. What we are saying to you is what else can you live with or where else can you place it. MR. HERZOG: It's difficult to place it any other side of the house than that. A couple of points I'd iike to make is ~ know I've met a couple of people on the board last fight. I don't know if everybody got to see the house. Both neighbors on bath sides of me and neighbors across the canal from me this doesn't it conforms with the distances they have from the canal after it's completed. So it's not anything more or iess either front or hack from the house, closer to the street from the neighbors, it's no further from the canal than the neighbors are. Aside from that yon could perhaps sho~en the length, not the width, not the depth of it. But rather than coming to the end of the house as proposed to the beginning of the garage addition, we could possibly sho~en that up by 12-I 5' which would again because of the tilt of the house would bring it further away from the canal by a couple of feet. Rather than being a 53' deck, it would be let's say a 38' deck. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Goehringer. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: There is an issue in reference to the deck ltselfb~:t the issue here is ]2ow is it goiag to actually change in elevation e£what we see that's there no,x? h2 other words, how is this deck going to specifically impact your property when it is built or when it may be built? What is the elevation factor above grade and what can you g/ye us to show us that so we can understand what the change is going to be? That's one of the difficult things that we have - I'm not speaking for all the board members, but certainly for myself when we go and see these changes from a patio area to a deck area and we know why people don't like patios because it brings dirt into the house and so on an so forth. And xve know the reason why people like deck areas, but if you can show us that we'd have a better understanding. MR. HERZOG: We can describe it to you now if you'd like. Page 29 of 128 M~M~ER GOE~%-GE~: We ~so have a batten ~nderst~_¢mg ofwlcat chmnge iaat wo%d effe~ from ~ ~wiro~sme~tal simndpoirZ by placing 3~ piles in ~d creating a deck ca tko ba~ of fine house as opposed to the patio si~¢affon offfie desk, b~r~nd t~e ~'ea ~ilaffs going to be ret_orated is going 70 be i2 ~-o~d level. St~dng Eo~ ff~at poiit to beh~d who2 is now the l!~/mg room let's say 27' ?c'~ the tho r~ova'Jons a'e going m be wi!! be a foot ~sove ~ade ~fic~ it vge~ald step up to probably for say ig~ ~d 12'~ for MEMBER GOEE~GER: ~y don% you ak_ow us East E: ff~e way of a ~a~ng us c~': ~enfia'asly. N~gmfser 2 if you ~e only isling about that alevaiion ~d. float ciera'finn Deo~erm ~l~efere [ dorft foresee thai tlleTe is goillg 'to be a m~ sr draslc d~nge with insta!laffo% ortho deck gl that elevaffen level !'m no~ s-~e ~ce bead ts aw~e c fie&, Most of ~is o~c~a* sibasffon~ its &~gmage aspect doesn't regiy ch~ge excqx that becazse ~ doasrit ge,~ vegetation ~ozn rice san. is the2 correct? ~ HE~OG: Thais co%est MEMBER GOEHR~GER: As Sec the distmnces tbs4 were mc?iioned before it sppea~s chat you a~e the owner offtl;e ROW in front ofthe house MR. HE~OG: That's co~ect the ROW pies i0' on tlne other side cf the s'rreet. MEMBER GOEHRN-GER: So f~we w~:e to take those distances and we were tc sub?act tlss 50' and whatever the distance is on the et!er side of the street those sro the ff~ures tkat Mr. Fkz~ scald was scums up with MR. HERZOG: ! believe those numbers were fi'om CHAIRWOMAN: We've really got m move fast today. [q2 tsik fast Mr. Orlando. MEMBER ORLANDO: The majority of the proposed additions ! dc n't dave a }roblem with. My one concern was the noS:hwest comer white youWe basically addresscd. [ffycu could move :t bec k 38 the width, tko lc:ruth 38' t :at would work ~o; :ne because the nor. hwcst center was close to the plateaus you Nave of brick, iff yon orought ~t ~o 38 thai wouk. work i~r CHAIRWOMAN: ~at axe we talking about$ Page 30 cf 128 Page 31 Jan~er~ ~8, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MR. FITZGERALD: I t~hJnk Mr. H~og said he wo~d sho~en ~t. ME~ER O~ANDO: I~m assr{rig you're s~ng ~t ~o the sou~. You ~e s~ng it to ~e no~. C~WO~N: Let's get ~ exact umber. How much ~e you gong to be t~g o~ MEMBER O~ANDO: You were ~ng 38 going ~om ~e sou~ to ~e no~ ~ect? Because ~e p]amaus ~at were bu~tt there. That wo~d reduce ~e setback s~fic~y. CHA~WO~: We ~e ta~ng about i2x38 h~e. ~at about 107 R's a s$~fic~t &op ~ ~e stmndgd. ~. HE~OG: To reduce ~e d~ ~om 12 to 10. CHA~WOM~: Yon ~e as~ng for a ve~ lgge v~ce. MR. HE~OG: I ~derst~d but I w~t to mmke it a use~I deck as well ~d if you put a 6' table wi~ chairs on bo~ s~des of that, that ~]ows 2' on each Mde, ~ere's no way to get past flse table ~f you put a table on ~he m{d~e of the deck. C~WO~N: We have approved a couple h~dred of decks hn ~e last couple ofye~s ~d we~ve approved a n~ber of~ a~ 10L MR. HE~OG: ~ey may have been used more as a porch th~ as a deck. I just ask you cons~d~ ~L CHAIRWOMAN: Is that something you could live wi~ or not? MR. HE~OG: I'd be difScult to live w~. CHAIRWOMAN: Yes or no? MR. HERZOG: I'd say no. ~ couldn'r p~r a ruble on the deck, it wouldn't ~aake sense. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? MR. FITZGE~LD: If you look at the photo~aphs in n~ber 33 you see where the stye is and that's the extent oldie deck and it would be at the level MEMBER GOEHR~-GER: That's what I ass~ed ~d that's the reason I fu~her questioned tlxe app~ic~t regarding th{s. We ge talking width and depth h~r now but I*m just saying elevation factor ~d l~m saying there's not a major ch~ge because ~e house is relatively low. Again you're trading ~ass for wood. Page 31 of 128 Southold Town Board of Appeals ]~ed up ~d~at with f; on th~ c~al sid~ MR. HE~OG: ~ng would we be accomplishing by doing final? Keeping k c~i, ~en you have th~ issu~ cf3eing closer te rte road v/ich ~EF~ER HO~N~G: No Z WOT%d say i0 cr ~. H!RZOG: ~nst wouldbe totally o:nt ofpropo~ion ~¢m~ehouse, MEMBER HORN~G: t wo~d? It would be aLtair_ed ~o ~he ho'asa MR. HEP~OG: k ~us: wo'aldnL be aes~eically pleasing, Frs r_o{ geld!nS a0¢ closed to 'line wa':~: would still be asstheticaiiy pleas{ng. CHAIRWOMAN: I thh~< whai he is saying is you are p]m-mlng cn hamng a p:cposed add:/ion that is here for a vafimnce fi~t now ~d he's say:rog wh} nc/move ':aa gm'age in line with ice proposed addkion since bo~h sLice%res need variances and tha: way it would k 5:c¢ier away ~cm the canal MEMBER HORN~: Yes Mi.. HERZOG: YouYc saying ~n ine w/th the other addkion on ~he other she o?he house? CRAIRWOMAN: Yes. ~R. HE~OG: I'd have to have an archkectura] rendering m undo:stand wkS~ k wculd look [ike. MzMBER ORLANDO: k would be a ,or mots expensive because r:ghl now ridge line. I~ -would increase the addkion 2 fold Page 32 of I28 Page 33 january t6, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MR. HERZOG: You'd have to have reverse ridge line at least to make it look anywhere near decent. It would be a pretty good expense. MEMBER ORLANO: George, what if he shrunk the garage 25-22'? MEMBER HORNING: That would be helpful also. CHAIRWOMAN: You're talking about reducing the width of the garage? MR. HERZOG: This is the type of thing where ifI did that ]i~d have to put a shed up on the property. It's for lawnmowers and things like that. MEMBER ORLANDO: When you stay within the ridge line of the house, it's less expensive. Once you start jogging, everFOiing becomes more expensive. CHAIRWOMAN: 23~ instead of25' £or the garage. MR. HERZOG: This isfft something ]i'd have to provide a new survey and architectural design for? MEMBER ORLANDO: Not for us but the Building Department. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? MR. HERZOG: Can I bring signatures or people, neighbors who are very supportive of this because it will upgrade the neighborhood. MEMBER HORNING: Have them write letters. CHAIRWOMAN: Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION II}:55 am A¢¢1. 5246 - NAMROG }tOLD1NG CORP. This is a request for a variance under section 2449, based on the Building Department's October 2, 2002 Notice of Disapproval concerning a proposed second-story addition and porch addition, portions of which will be tess than 15' at its closest point to a side property line. Location of property 1935 Laurel Way, IMattituck 121-4-22. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? Page 33 of 128 ~a~® 34 PAT~C~ MOOR~. ESQ: Z'lk do ~f; vaW qMckLy %ecause ~hZs ~s a yew simple applicafiom exis'~g house is a one-stoW >muss Gay wa*ca re place a second szoW ~2 the one s'cow ~s:; cvsr MS. MO0~: ~e porch probably. Ies a cost. mn prope~ k's a f&%Jiy compo-~, CHAIRWOMAN: ~e is no ~Imn to dmeoiish a~zy of i~s exisfmg one-s':o~ FXfS. MQOP~: No. I la~e the b-glder iere. ~ny plmzs on d~_ol?2on? MS. MOO~: lust fi~_t over mp lifting '-' -' =- : ' CP~WO~N: ~:~e proposed porch the bo~d is genially not Ln favor of creat!z~ a new of nonconfo~ce ~d '~e odds of ge~fmg a ::~ porch ap?roved at 0 ioi 7ne sse genially abou. t C MS, MOORE: Well keec ~ mind fimt a stoas is scot considered a s¢cOack 0%0 a side y~d mn ~n~oac~ent onto a sma yard. T:Js is :merely a roof over a szoos so the/r"s wky 2 seemed ¢ mbJm~ request, f -anderst~d yes're z~o lot line concsr, s but here you still iqave the stools that's t~ere, you jusa have {nstead of having ~ open to ice ak* k will be have a i;itle cove:ring ova: CHARWOMAN: No. Ms. Olive. MEMBER OLIVA: [ was there. Sxcsp: for she covered torch CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Orlando M~MBE~ O~%ANDO: ~ also v~sfied ~h~ site; jus~ wa~% m mak~ a co=nment ths;~ onc~ you ;he 2~d ' ' :~' ~ ~ ~: ~ ~ ~ ~ ' ~ .... stow add:don it would roi ever. exceed me MS. MOORE: Yes MEMBER ORLANDO: ~s iol is downwa:d of the neighbor. sage 34 o~ !28 January '~6, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Mseti~g P~b[~c H~ad~g MS. MOORE: T~fis is re~y ~e most approp~ate, to put a 2~d sto~ is ~e most appropriate envko~ent~ly as well because ~e prop~y ~s sloped ~d you re~Iy have no wh~e else to put it M~out ME~ER O~A~O: I would probably nev~ find ~s ~lace ev~ ag~n. No other questions. CHARWOMAN: Mr. Ho~g. MEMBER HO~G: No CH~WO~N: ~. Goe~ng~. ~ER GOEHR~GER: Ms. Moore you s~d ~at ~e Go~ fmily owned ~e house to ~e east which is ~e closest mcroac~ent ~d wi~ respect ~at ~e overh~g on ~s house MII not ~cro~h ~y ~h~ ~at ~e ov~h~g? MS. MOO~: Co~e~. The eves on the house ~e go~ng to be m~nta~ned, just ~. They Mll be on ~e top ~fthe ridge of the 2nd sto~. ME~ER GOEHR~GER: ~d any roof ~age will be put into a store &~n or some~g7 MS. MOORE: As a ma~er of fact, ~e Trustees condition was to put ~ells ~d t have ~e s~eyor Yo~g & Young did ~e s~ey. Even~alIy I'i1 get s~eys that show &~nage. CHARWOMAN: Let's see what happens. Is ~e ~yone else in ~e audience who would I~ke to speak for or against the appl~cafion7 Seeing no h~ds, I'1~ m~e a motion closing the heating rese~ng dec~sion ~til later. PLEASE SEE M~UTES FOR RESOLUTION ]0:58 am A¢Ial. 5233 - JOSEPH Jo SNELLENBURG. This is a request for a variance under section 31 A, based on the Building Department's September 20. 2002 Notice of Disapproval, conccrnhag ~ pplic~ut's request to amcnd BP ;,28632-Z l'~>r ~ proposed batlwoom addition in accessory garage building. Location 1935 Old Woods Path, Southohl 87-2-2t CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? PETER STOUTENBURG: Unfortunately Judge Snellenburg was going to handle this himself, but he's in the hospital at the moment. Whatever I can do to help with questions I did go the Health Department on his behalf when the tmvn requested that he come to you about the batl~room. The Health Department has granted a permit for a new system on their suggestions we had thought we'd tie it in with the existing house and they said they'd prefer a new system. do have a copy of that if you want it for your files. Page 35 of 128 Ps~e 38 ~d eel% whys he% mo~inE ids professfona2 CHAERWO~AN: ~s t[!s going ~o be heated? MR. STOUTENBURG: Yes hearing & d~r conditioning 02 (ne 2~ leer oFdy ~Jle bases of no pi~_s -lo msJ~e ihs iiv~s~e {-aar:ers. MR~ STOUTSNBURG: He iivesby!imselfin shousewitlmlots oS CKAIRWC~AN: Yes he does. i assume Nu have no problems if~Pis bcsd isut condi!ons MR STOUTENBURG: f assume he wouldn't. I cank really speak 5r Nlm because i spt xen since he went into ibc hosnkaL hut Fm assumms mst w, uld be {i-is case. ~le hms nc CHAZRWO~AN: Ms. OHva. MEMBER OL~A: The upstairs of{he gaTage is iust grin8 ~o he ~% of~ce for him, CHAIRWOMAN: Mn' MEMBER ORLANDO: No cuestions. Pege 38 of (28 Page 37 January 16, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing CHAIRWOMAN: Mir. Hor~fing. :' MEMBER HORN1NG: Do you know if the applicant had any ideas to demo the existing garage and build a new structure attached to the existing dwelling2 '--. MR. sToUTENBURG: No plans of cluing anything to the existing house, strictly to replace the garage and increase the amount of room. I believe there are 1 or 2 small utility buildings there that are now not on the site because they were a part of the original demo pemfit that they are sor~ of tool shed things that are now going to be incorporated in the structure. CHAIRWOMAN: That was in the record. Mr. Goehringer. MEMBER GOEHRiNGER: I've been to the site. I~ve spoken to the judge and I think quite honestly he has a substantial mount of files that he wants to move we've done it before and ifs like a library simafiun and he wants to be able to preserve those files and thafs the reason for the heating and air cundfiiuning. CHAIRWOMAN: Lefs see what happens, ts th.ere anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands, I'lt make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION 11:37 am Avpl. 5232 - ©WINI?OINT CONIMYJNICATI@NS (owner Jun~e~. T~s ~s a request for a v~ce ~der secfiun 165C, based on the Building Dep~ment's September 19, 2002 Notice of Disapprova~ for the proposed installation of equipment related to a public utility wireless co~unications ~tem~a to be affixed on ~ existing monopole. Location ofprope~y 21855 CR 48, Cutcho~e 96-1-19.1 CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would hke to spe~ on behalf of the application? LAWRENCE RE, ESQ: Good morning my name is Lawrence Re, law firm is Mundlcy, Mc;~clc, Nielson, and Re 36 N. New York Ave. Huntington. This is an application for a v~iance to pe~it Omnipoint to install 3 equipment cabinets within the re~ y~d setback. Briefly, Omnipoint is licensed by the FCC to operate a person~ communications system here in Suffolk County ~d throu~out much of~e US. Ominpoint strides to provide reliable se~ice throughout ifs license coverage ~ea ~d at present in ~e no,hem p~t of Cutcho~e and su=ounding areas there is a lack of sen,ice, a se~ice deficiency, tn order to eliminate this service gap, Omnipoint needs to establish an antenna facility. We've reviewed the Town of Southold Code and we see [hat the town encourages co-location on existing towers wherever possible and we've investigated the existing tower ~at exists on the propeay in question ~d it works on ~ engineering st~dpoint ~d so Om/point proposes to affix it's ~te~as on that tower and to install it's equipment on ~e ~ound adjacent to the tower. That tower was installed Page 37 of 128 t:ze visual analysis If the segsc las any questons ~ ~, ¢ *~ Sfio'¢o who pr~ed ~' CHAIRWOMAN: ...... ~ / ' * '' ~ l~_ no~ su.e t,ey uo. %ankly this seems l,Ke ~ s~g ..... Ps~d spphcatox as ex~&mg ~.o_.opo~ w ......... 05 ~c you are gmng :o toe ~-~ - ~ ....... -~= m;x :- MR. RE: Verizon rs et the top mc Nex e~ has *ee.z ~m,.ox e,, o~.ox, t.e ~oca .o;. chosen. CHA5RWOMAN: The antennas are approx:mamly o h: deplh. CEA[RWOMAN: xne ecmomem ~s gcx:~g re be lCx2O d' ~rgn. MR. RE: No it's 3 cabincis and each cabixet is 6'Y' ~' ,5 z'5" wide and 2e demo. Tqev individaaI cabinets look more or less ~e a CHAL~WOMAN: The concret~ pad is 17x7 ~d a~-, ~ ',4~.*~ : -~ ~; . ~ 20 !3 to 17 to 20. CoTect? Page 38 a';128 Page 39 January 16, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting PubIic Hearing MR. RE: That's correct. CHAIRWOMAN: And that would leave you with an existing rear yard setback of approximately 10'. This is an ex~sfing situation and the Towns ~elecommunicadons laws ~-- specifically ~low for this type of facility and in fact encourages it. As far as the audience is concerned they are here for a setback. A setback for the antennas and a setback for the equipment pad bu~Iding. Whatever the 3 little cabinets are going to go on. Ms. Oliva. MEMBER OLtVA: I don't have any questions. MEMBER ORLANDO: Lu followhig su~t with Nextel who was here a month ago we wSll requke natural screerfing on the southeast comer because Nextel will be prov/d~ng that for the/r boxes so you'll be required to screen on the southeast side. MR. RE: Would you prefer that we work with your office as far as the layout of the scree~g. Or how do you want to work that. Because our office also represented Nextel and- MEMBER ORLANDO: We'd like to follow suit. If you're planting arborvitae, we'll continue with arborvitaes or whatever the nat~arai screening. I don't th~& the landfill will require screening on that I don't fZgnk they'll complain, but on the southeast side as you drive by that road it's a vacant lot so if you could just screen it. CHAIRVFOMAN: If you could provide us with a screening plan that will work with the Nextel. Mr. Homing. MEMBER HORN1NG: No questions. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: My questions are always quite different than evewbody else's and of course everything I say is not derogatory, it's pragmatic. If we were not to grant the variance you simply could not put the antenna on the monopole. My question is what is the effect, do you have anybody here who could tell us the effect of the antenna on the monopole and the loading aspect of it and what effect that might have in reference to a failure of the monopole. MR. RE: We had a structural analysis of the existing monopole. While i'm fishing for it I'll bring up Mr. McDonald to answer questions. NEIL MCDONALD: I'm Nell McDonald, I'm with William Donalds architects located at i 0-1 Technology Drive, Setanket, NY. Just to cover your question before we proceeded with the application Voicestream or Omnipoint moved forward with the structural analysis based on their ar}tenna done accordi~}g to the EIATIA 2221c standards which is the telecommunications stmldards which is the telecommunications standards for analyzing towers, monopoles and takes into account the wind criteria the actual wind loads on the antennas the aerodynamics of the structure and any kind of radio ice that may occur and all of the findings in the report which was Page 39 of '128 M~. MCDONALD: 85 ~nh wind ~m~R GO~HR~G~R. MR, MCDONALD: The dyzm~ms of coxdkfors ~ ~ ~-~ r MR. MCDONALD: The acecs! antemna itss!~ MEMBER GOEXR~NGER: ;s this monopoie at max now? NiLXfDf)NA~ .) No ~'- OHA[RV¢OMAN: is there anyone e~se in the audience whowe u.~- --ix ~x~'; '- ~ +~o si~s.~'~ ~ .c~_ .... o_ agm~s~'- the application? Seeing no h~ds. PLEASB SEE ~UTES FOR R~SOLUTiON :45 am A~seL 5259 - ESTA: E OF P6U~-e~!f SCHL USSmL~ vmi~me m~der se~do** 32. based on the B~L~mg DepaPcmm,~ ~ S~o~m=bm 24 2802 Notice cf Disasorcvsl concerning a proposec dwe iing Page 40 cf128 Page 41 Jarmary 16, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appaals Regular Meeting Public Hsarin~ ~ont proPe~ l{ne at ~t's closest point. Location ofprope~ 3085 Sti]l~vat~ Ave., Cutcho~e i~6-2-6,7&8 (camb~ed ~ one l~t 62~730 sq. ~. tot~ CHAIRWOM~: Is someone here who wo~d ~ke to spemk on Beh~f of ~e application? G~Y OLSEN, ESQ: Good mo~ng~ my nme is G~ Olsm. I~m ~ a~omey having my offices ~n Cutcho~e ~d I r~res~t the appl~c~t. Let me cabin,ce ~s first l*d l~ke the b~ard far having ~e meet~g ~ ~e mom~ng ~d I ~ow y~uYe ~ng to cle~ ~e calend~ out so that's ~eat. C~WO~: k helps keep us aw~e too. MR. OLSEN: Let me co~ce by m~g it cle~ ~at approv~ offs application we ~d~st~d would be conditioned on ~e applic~t m~ng 3 t~ p~cels ~to ~ p~ce]. ~e t~ lots ~n question ~e d~s~ct t000-]3d-2-d,7&8. ~tly ~e lots ~e ~ 3 s~m'ate o~s~ps ~e Sc~usse] f~J]y ~d 3 s~ate t~ bills ~e b~g issued 1 for each p~cel. ~e prope~ is the subject to t~s appUcafion ~e lots 80, 8~, 82, 83 & p~ of lot 84. Map of section 2 prope~ of MS Ham. ~e tot~ ~ea of~e 3 combined lots is 1.14401 acres or 62,730 sq. A. ~d has frontage on Sfillwat~ Ave. 270'. T~ lot 7 & 8 ~e presently ~d~ con~act for $170K ~d t~ lot fid is ~d~ ~n~act for $40K. Rudoph B~ ~ Sou~old ~s ~e aAomey representing ~e buyer. The applic~ts have obt~ed approv~ from the SC D~t. ofHe~ Se~ces, the ~S D~t. of En~ror~ental Cons~afion ~d ~e Sou~o]d Town Trustees. I do have cop~es of~e approvals ~d I'd l~e to hand th~ ~to you today. ~e final approval from the Trustees w~ con~tioned ~at Chere be a 40' non-~sC~b~ce buffs, ~A~ers, ~d dw wells as depicted on ~e Young & Yo~g s~ey dated J~u~ 30, 2002 ~.d reused Jmne 27, 2002. ~e location of the proposed house was necess{tated by the requ~r~ents of Cne Trustee approv~ requi~ng that the house be setback away from the wetlands ~ea thus forcing it clos~ to Stillwater Ave. Th~s is ~ea vari~ce to locate the house 26.24' from Sfillwater Ave. rath~ th~ 50' as required by ~e cu~ent Sou~old code. The benefit to the applic~t ifCJs v~ce is ~ted ~s obvious. The applicants conWact of sale to Mr. MacF~Imne who happens to be presmt today ~s conditioned on obtaining the necess~ approvals from all appl~cio]e gove~ent~ agencies having jurisdiction over this prope~y. As stated before approvals have been obtained from the SC Health Dept. the NYS DEC and the Trustees. The last governmental agency is the ZBA. Failure to ~ant this application would render thc property which is currently under col~tract ~i~r a total oF S210K value fur the construction of a single family residence. It is respect~Ily submi[ted that the ~ting of the vm~ce would not adversely effect the heal~; safety, or general welfare of the nei~borhood or the co--unity. It is respect~Uy submitted that there will be no undesirable change by ganting the v~ance to the ch~acter of the nei~borhood or to he,by prope~ies. Most of the prope~ies on Stillwater Avenue are presently approved ~d I have check the records with the Southold Toxvn Trustees as to which parcels are improved and which parcels are still vacant and i have made a list of same. I've also made a copy of the SC Tax Map and have colored in yellow the presently improved parcels on Stillwarer and the subject property is hi~li~ted in pi~. ~e p~ose of preparing this list ~d hi~Ii~fing the tax map is to demons~ate the c~ent charact~ of the nei~borhood w~ch is l~gely c~endy improved with one-~mily dwellings and accordingly the ~ting of the vafi~ce would not ch~ge the Page 41 of 128 ?age 42 ~nu~n/'ae~ 2003 ~e ~C~de v~ce appl{cafion here before ~d refaced to in ozd~ to azores; a waive: cf ccns'~c~o~ of only one resm~ce on a.l 3 t~ p~-ce!s ~zd accozdln~y ..... process st~ed ] don't ~zow kow losz~ it's been but it seems ]ire 2 or 3 years agoap/, '~*:¢*"'~c__~ the apnkcatons a~d itcclude aZ 3 csx pa.c~.s . .3e,.~eve there are o:d a~sprova~s Eom *~ _. . p~ _ . ~ ~ c ~; } c, - ~ wn_ ~_ot ,ny ~ gec 2 houses cr 3 kouses wha: we wax to do is we have a~-eed Cast ail 3 lots wi] be merged :_ate one, Therew,,_:r ~'x .... e_~ ~.o~,s~S -- ¢ o_. fax parce]s. Tke vs.~&nce will not 5ave ~c s ;:.verse eft%ct ox tke '2'~nvs-ca~}: ' or env.rcnmesz%.: - ' ' conm~ens o~ the ne~gnbornooa. Al oftke envtronmenls~ msues on bu:mm ~ on thxs creekf~ent propeCy Law ~en ..c;c..ess~d nv the Heahh Dent,. th~ DEC mu 'h~ =' ~?~ ~,,.. r ~ ~ Iff j ' ' app:-ox et lis I%I) cut %':.~ 'O~,"~" .~.:. :t)k:Sc_.¢~.,,.,.. ...... '~ -.~ - ..... .'- : x FL .0.'il lc .... ' ..~_ dlfllcul!y was icot self created by the appxcams but was crea-ed by t}13 !~posi2iOll Of Of other gov6~erxtal agencies rc make sure ixat lse wetanas a~e ..... cw~_y ~'cm~¢- 4 tkzs eos~-d rs aw~-e under ' ~ ~ ~ ~ ¢~ ' - ' Sect~o12 z6/B 3-~ o~ ~e .'own Codee~rov-~'4~ -¢,,,~ ~a_...~cmgl~-~: ~o:--~-~.-~ wxereby .~e zonmg board shall ~h th~ m:~., ..... ~ ~ ¢ ~ ~- "- .... heakh, '% ' ' - propeny owner and is ~he equ!va}snr of a ia/lng. -'~ -~/'- ,~e~--'-' ' a~dressed by al! the other age~lctes t~.a~ Ave discussed and we have ssorova:, The :~ ...... are asking to push the louse ~L~cher away ~- ' ~ '- - .... ' ~ ' necessa~ to ensure that there m no aiscurba~c~ to :i% w~rla/_ ~._~as. A_so ~ s_;o~a me~Ac_~ Page 42 of 128 January '~ 6, 2003 Southo~d Town Board of Appe~s ~e~ar ~e~P~c Hearin~ ~s prope~ has been on ~e m~ket for a wh~le before ~t w~t ~d~ con~act for ~. MacF~l~e. ~d I ~ow people a~oss the s~eet ~d b~c~y p~p~e a~oss ~e s~eet ~d maf~e some ~th~ people ~n ~e block don't like ~e idea fi~at a house is going up because it Mll ei~ b~ock ~e~r ~ew or ~ey ~e concerned about ~e wefl~ds. ~ey ~e su~est~g ~at the town t~e ~s'~over. We[~ the to~ h~n~t beu~t t~s prop~ ~d ~s is p~va~e~y owned prop~ and it's va~uabte prop~ because it's ~eekffon~ ~d ~f~e people ~e opposing ~is ~e conc~ed abou~ ~ ~e ~swer ~s obv~o~. ~ey could have p~chas~ ~t. ~ rece~v~ sever~ ~e~e~ fram yo~ o~ce ~at you have received from ne~bo~ ~d Yr se~s to me that ~e ~st of lepers is that th~s should be protected because ~t*s on wetl~ds. I a~Iy have ~ a~ photo,apb h~e evew oth~ tot as you c~ see ~s ~prov~ ~th a house. ~s ~s ~ old b~tt up ~ea. Most of the houses on Sfillwater ~e located ~n a position today ~at when ~ey w~e b~lt, you basically could do what you wmted but you co~t do ~t today. I don't th~ by ~t~g ~e front ~d v~ce it's going to ~y way chmge ~e chmcter af~e n~borh~od. C~WO~N: ~e you submi~g the a~ photo? ~. OLSEN: Acm~ly Mr. Wolp~ ofYo~g & Yo-~g c~e ~ wi~ ~ a~al photo ~d I ~i~ he would probably l~ke to address some issues to ~e bo~d as well. One of rte letters that cme t~ou~ was someone who checked out Mr. MacF~l~e on ~e ~nt~et ~d was referencing what ~nd of company he's ~a~ng ~d so an mud ~e~s ~so a ref~ence ~at Ge sel~er here ~s a developer. ~e seIler is not a developer. The seli~ ~s a p~vate ~di~duaI such as you would be ~at~s ~ng to sell a piece ofprope~ ~d h~e we ~e now. We ~e h~e because ~e o~ agmc~es ~e req,h~ng 40' buffers and so on forcing the house fo~d. I d~dn*t ~ow that before a p~son could buy ~n Sou~old that ~e~r qu~ficafions or ~ue~r p~son~ bus~ness had to be checked out on ~e ~ntemet. It just doesfft seem fi~t to me but ~at's ~ay, that's what happened. And ~e concerns in ~e letter ~e bas~cat~y enviroment~ people like things to be way they have always been but people don't want to pay for it. ~e env~romenta~ concerns that ~e raised ~n the co~espondence have all been addressed. There's no impact to th~s creek by th~s house go~ng onto th~s prop~ provided we get om~ v~ce. We have ~o get c~oser to the road th~ what the town code c'~ently requires but ~at's why we have a ZBA. I believe also there was some co~espondence regarding the size of the house. Mr. MacFarlane is here as well as his engineer but the house that he's going to be building is ~e house that he a~-eed, the s~ze that he agreed with the Tr'astees was 1460 sq. ff. for the house and a 2 car garage. That's the footprint. CHAIRWOMAN: I don't have plans fbr a 1460 sq. ft. house. The plans i have the existing footprint is in the neighborhood of 2000 sq. ff. If there's a mistake an e~or of submissions, I'd like to ~ow it. MR. OLSEN: Including the g~age it's 1860. This is how it was submitted to the Trustees. By today's standards, the footprint for a 1460 sq. ff. house is not a big house. CHAIRWOMAN: Let's get the record clear. The plans drawn by Young & Young su~ey prepped November 7th, 2002 last mended November i9, 2002 indicate a building with a total wid~ of 37' tot~ len~h of 66' including a gaage it is a detached g~age. There ~e some little L-shaped cutouts in there. ~at ~e the meas~ements? Page 43 of '128 MR. OLSEN: i 860 s% tc~ ~cludi2g ~2e g~sge. CHAIRWOMAN: ~md wehave a 2~[ 2~'~ sto~t on'm~ o-;*~af corect7 MR. OLSEN: ThaCs CHAIRWOM~N: Could i spe~ to the ~chitect? Some basic ~estiens abo~ the floor ~n~tec~. My pa~er Bob Task ~ew fiis pl~ He is ~ ~c~fi'zect m~M zmfof:~ately he% CHAIRWO~N: Sewetavem~186OonEaeP:-~ ~ -~ ~-,-v ~.~ ~9 ~ ~-, ~e she~mg $ master be~oo~ ev~ ~e 2-c~ g~sge, ~. WOLPERT: I wo~d say ttai would :se co.est CHAIRWOMAN: Pr:at is ~ae hei~%t} You have a mean heidel be?~e~t tlne idge ~d fire eaves ~om na~ ~*ad.e 0f35:. MR. WOLPERT: ~safs tile no~e ~laC (s indicated on the bor:or~ of 9is pian~ yss 2H}HRWOMAN: [s this a 2 or 2 rA s'mW houss? MR. WOLPERT: 2m not sure. ~ t¢&~{ iCs a 2-sto~, CHAIRWOMAN: ~ would like {o see site elevaffons on tkis and aisc like to ienow t!e exac: thi~& you c~ hmndle MR. OLSEN: Yes we can produce thai drsw[ng. CHA R/V()MAN: [ con", imvc any R:-'thc:'c, ucs,:~ns ',n ius - -' M: 3lscu MR. OLSEN: For your sake fo~una:ely ['m ~n5shed. MEMBER GOEHR~G%R: Mr. Olsen i have about 4 differe?2 ~lmzs of~-ke ~$~ey but wek'e working elf of the Janua~ 30t~, 2002 CHAIRWOMAN: No Jen--,'. August lf'. 2002. MEMBER GOEHR~GER: WeYe ncr refe~ng to house plans, we are :efe:~ng re MR. OLSEN Au~sr 13th is tine one Ppproved by the ~EC. ~Ege 4z- of (28 Page 45 jarma~ ~(~, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appea!s Regular Meeting Public Hearing CHAIRWOMAN: That shows the 40' buffer zone and a front yard setback of 26L MR. OLSEN: That's right mid we had to go back to the DEC because originally we got approval for just tax lot 7& 8 and when we agreed to include tax lot 6 we hadto go back again to get their approval. That survey is dated August 13th and was approved on November 25t~ by the DEC. CHAIRWOMAN: Do ail the board members have floor plans? Because I have extra copies. MR. OLSEN: As far as the height and so on obviously we have to comply with the Southold Town Code Building Standards. The basic issue is we need the front yard variance because the Trustees wanted us back away from the creek. CHAIRWOMAN: Ali of these things will be taken into consideration when we are granting a variance. The request for variance is quite substantial by code as you are aware of. Whatever the reasons are it is still substantial. One of the things we do take into consideration is the height and the appearance and the width of it. The visual impact to the community, that's not unusual that's why I asked, and that's why it's impoiCant for me to know. MR. OLSEN: We will get you the information. MEMBER GOEHR1NGER: Before Mr. Olsen leaves, we are talking about the survey that shows 26' 26.24~, correct? MR. OLSEN: Correct. CHAIRWOMAN: Okay is there anything else Mr. Olsen? MR. OLSEN: Not from me ~ ttJnk Mr. MacFarlane would like to say something, is that alright? CHAIRWOMAN: Certainly. ROBERT MACFARLANE: My name is Robert MacFarlane just a little earlier today I was able to read sonic things thait were in letters that I wasn't aware o['pcrhaps I can set the record str~iight just briefly, i am the CEO for a company called Homes for America Holdings, we create, build, renew, among other things historic structures throughout the US in an environmentally historically sensitive matter. Generally these are large sites urban revitalization we are doing one in Hartford now which is almost a million sq. ft. and is being rebuilt in accordance with national park standards. The reason ~ mention this is because we are sensitive. Sensitive to neighbors, neighborhood groups and sensitive to the local laws that govern that piece of property. I also sit on a committee at Pace University. That committee at Pace University being one of the largest universities in the US specializing in enviro~lmenta! law. Part of that committee is to look at environmental laws, how can we make them more sensitive and at the same time how can we respond to the needs of today. These are things that people read on our website - I cleared the website up. It's who we are, sensitive. One of the items that wasn't brought up today is we Page 45 of 128 age 4o Southdd Town Beard cf Appeals Reguiax Mee':!n9 Pus~c Lnat ~.me ~i~er,~ w~e 3zo~s, 3 ~e prelo~ was semrm ;~ you ~ook ~d k is~2 on one of ~he eocur~e~,ls ~s/; see that ] ~ of Cae mca ~e remamsg m ~eea space %~.a~ ~,~ ~c[iusse~ prep~%~ veh~re tZey p~d taxes '~ '7 years, ' - ' spaco~ CHA~OM~-: Tii~< you ve~I much ~% MacF~iane. tae bo~a r~eedea a s~e~ck of v/last fine house .oaks HI{e- MR. MACP~LAN~: Absokieiy becsus~ &~ h~use would ~e a ztte cottage. k k% who Z ~ h's who my comp~.y ~s m~d we/re sensk~ve. W% ~e no~ t~x~ ~g str~cture there. We are taNd~_g somethkg_ ~ ~ sons:bye,' ' sensee..~ * CHARWOMAN: Is there msyene else ~ .... e ax&once wac ABL~AI~WI~I<**A}Z ESO: Ex~,se .... mvnamcisAo;~a:; Cr, A~RW~MAN. BARBA~ DIF~NCESCO: Good mom!n~, my name ~ ._ye directly across ~ ...... ._ ,~. _ am~w~ed ~h,s lento_ .o vo~r elect yesterday and 7 would like to reed. i ~h~ reques~ for variance tut the ~bLo~ lng reasons. One. Fc recues; excessive. A. Mn Olsen st~.~es m h~s <s~kc~,o,. 'the :_o~.se .s ~ _~a~ a~.~ s:xe'. s~z~ m Fle~s Ned~ c ....... ~.~y _s less .,m..~ 253~ sq ....................... s'ize of a new home being built: " ' ' ~ 4,. ,~ ,28 Page 47 January 16, 2003 Southold ToWr~ Board of AppeaIs Regular Meetir¢ Public Hearing floor plans for a home almost twice that size in bulk. B, Mr. Olsen states in his application "it is only 24' beyond the required distance the LoGrande dwelling is clnser than 50'". The LoGraade home according to the survey in your file indicates a 73' from the property line. That represents a 7' variance. Mr. Olsen is asldng for more than 3 times that amount, 24' which is the amount being requested ~s'the depth of a ranch home common to the area. Thi~' amount not only represants relief of the existing law of almost 50%. It represents a variance of a whoie house. This is not reasonable, ifs excessive. C, the applicant has already been granted relief for his wetland permit, now before you there is another request asking some more relief. An inquiry has been sent to the Board of Trustees regarding the size of the dwelling because it is not consistent with the size that was voted on by the Trustees at the public hca,ting on Apri124, 2002. The size of that dwelling was clearly stipulated and recorded in the minutes of that meeting. Mr. MacFarlane who is the potential buyer of this property and for whom these plans have been drawn up is the CEO of a company called Homes for America Holdings, Inc. On their webpage the company is described as "a high-growth financial investment company generating immediate profit and reliable continuous cash flow in specialized real estate transactions focusing on the acquisition of undeveloped properties with prime potential using minimum equity investment on that same page Robert MacFarlane describes himself and his partner as "entrepreneurs with over a billion dollars of real estate transactions in their combined resumes". He is welt versed on the leeway that can be granted through zoning boards and aware of the procedures involved to gain such approval. He does tiffs for a living across the US. Four years ago when I purchased my home I made a decision based on several different parameters. One of those was the feel of the neighborhood. This application is wholly inennsistent with the feel of the community. It grossly exceeds legal parameters, t have also evaluated the impact these lots would have on my property when and if they were ever developed. I felt comfortable with the zoning laws the tnwn of Southold had in effect mad felt that I could trust that the feel of the neighborhood would not be adversely effected if the property were to be developed within the guidelines of the ex/sting taw. t am not asking you to deny anyone the right to develop that property or to build a home provided they stay within the legal limits and follow the law, but to grant relief to a landowner in order to maximize his investment is unfair to all the tsxpayers in the Town of Southold. There is a moment of time in any design process when a conscience decision is made. The person can do one of 2 things, either operate within the law or out of sheer arrogance take the law into their own hands and work outside of it because they know they can. I am asking the ZBA to take a finn stand and enfbrce the existing law and not grant relief for this unreasonable request. Thank y0ll. CHAIRWOMAN: Thank you, Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? CARL VAIL: My name is Carl Vall~ I'm an adjacent proper~y owner to the west. CHAIRWOMAN: So you're in-between tl~e loOrande prope~y- MR. VAIL: I'm 3230 Stillwater so I'm directly across from the property. I'm on the other side of the street. I only have 4 copies of this letter but I'll give it to you and read it as well. Dear Ms. Tortora and board members we request that you deny the application to build with insufficient Page 47 of 128 se:backs for ihe following reasons, one as m: adjacent prop~cy owner C:o vg~e ofo-g 37x66 doesn't ec¢~ 4Ox50 b~ Ci~V¢OMAN: ~. Vale, ~zt's o~e of tko ff~ngs we sa ~?~ng to get 5¢cause ffasr¢ ~e so ~. V~: Trustee Fost~ to quote %% m~e a ?.aden to approve ~e appHcaffo~ with a Dec--off: Pe~_ks Cozzsulting axd Pc~its &rd ~'affing has beer_ actively qzpi~ng for w~_ces Respect~ily Cad ~d Liz V~e~ ?~st CHAiWWOM~N: We -will 'r~e note ofwha'r you said if you fee! i:~e is sor:effinS here presort: ':c make a commie:% in defense of herself so 2rn not going To comrzsr:, on ;t, MR. VAIL: Fve included copies ofcotlespendence from her. Ye% gc~s have to be the lunge cf it MEM3ER GOEHR[NGER: l C~!nk you just have to Mr. Vale off cc%rse i kzcw you quke a while, i fee! you need to be aw~e that of course wc arc aware thai she has Cia business but she's a non-retix8 member of fids board. She does no: vote. i ur tiers?and your situation and l ,vorked wTh nor ibm 20 years or mere about. CHAIRWOMAN: is there anyone else in the audience who would like rs speak lot or fine application? PETER BEZL: My name is Peter Bell i have delivered one of these to each offvou aloz ~ whh ¢~d you get the letter? CHAIXWOMAN: No. you donk have tc repeat the letter. Page 48 of I28 Page 49 January '~(~, 2003 Southold ToWn Board of Appea~s ReguIar Meeting Public I-~earing MR. BELL: I own 7 lots on Sfiltwater Ave. I have houses already in front of me; I have no objections to the houses kn front of me. What I do object to is a house bethg built on property that is not possible to be sustained because oft,he nature of the wetland. I*m talkdng about east creek because east creek is part of an estuary that goes/nto ?ecoulc Bay..My concerns are s~ctly almost always environmental. I don't oppose a house being bullt,~here but it should be built within the confine and character of the neighborhood. T~rAs mornLng I went down Stillwater Ave. there are 10 houses each one has a 50' variance thefts on my side of the street. CHAIRWOMAN: Each one has a what? MR. BELL: A 50' setback from the house. On the side of the street that th~s gentlmuan wants to build a house there are 15 houses vdth at least 100' or more setback and there are 5 with 50~ setback. This proposed house is going to sit out I~ke a sore thumb. It's hSgher than most of the houses in the neighborhood and you know you live ~n the ne4ghborhood you expect the neighborhood to stay reasonably close to the values and standards of the ne~ghbnrhood that's there and I don't th~nk we are out of order or so far out so far radical when you can see wetlands building moratorium approved. So what we are say~ng is that th~s particular East Creek is already polluted with some ldnd of a toxic metal because you can't even take shellfish out of that. What it needs is nourishment. It doesn't need more development. So we're sa:cng that we want you to particularly take into to consideration the character of the neighborhood, the sensitive part of the area that the gentlc~aan wants to build kn and if you would take a look you know go down Sfillwater Avenue and look you would see what we are talldng about. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN: Yes sk. TIM WACKER: My name is Tim Wacker. I'm at 595 Track Ave. I'd like to beg your pardon for the way I'm dressed I'm in the middle of my workday. There were a couple of comments made first by Mr. Olsen then by Mr. MacFarlane that I'd like to address. Mr. Olsen said that denying the variance would render the property un-developable. I thi~: thefts probably wrong. I think 1 or 2 of the board members and certainly the entire Board of Trustees have viewed this parcel and you can see the lot is clearly developable without this particular variance, you just build a smaller house. To put things in perspective I might be wrong, but not by much. This bench is about 26' long and that's the distance from the house to the road and then you have to put asphalt and car accommodations in there. Several times tiao point was mace about no environmental impact. There will be environmental impact just by nature. There's going to be landscaping surrounding the house this size and landscaping by it's nature hardens shore line. Woods are much more permeable than lawn etc. The PEP has recommended that the town take steps to avoid hardening the shore lines and they refer to bulkheading specifically but this is clearly a hardening the shoreline I digress. There was another point that Mr. MacFarlane made that they are going to be doing this tastefully and I suspect that Mr. MacFarlane would not be here and would not be making the money he's making ifhe's not doing a good job on tbe houses but I live in a cottage, iVly fbotprint is under 800 sq. ff. that's 2/3~a's of what he's proposing here. A house with 1400' footprint on this parcel is not a cottage by definition. It's a good sized house. It is not going to be in keeping with the character of the neighborhood just a trip there will determine that. And lastly, I see that Mr. LoGrande is here, he~s a neighbor of mine, I've known Page 49 of 128 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting ~ub .c Th~{ a r~s~c~_a o .... ~. s ....... a-c WP of ~Y HLNT~GTON: ~y n~me is Ray Huniing~cn, I'm ~: '~'" ~rs; ~om. we m~e w~ t:~at approva} of t~is a:opHca{ion wcuk ordnance ~or the soplicant but :t ~ ' '~ "- '"' '~ ' ~'~ Secondlv we said~ ~'- ~, ~ ~* ' ............ h ~ '+~* x~ -,'~ to that we have talked ab 3ur that 3'~ cc iht was the -' ............... ~skedfor. !2 the area we sm~eyed dqe ~ su~o'cmdinghomes. '97e setback was 99'. We ~e4eve that the ZBA's 73.e as 8 rev:ow ocarc ~ ..... ncc wo~Ja ~ &e c_eat:on ::~en~on c~ new numbers "- is O~ r~ew Code v.~ ~zy. [t"s az; .... -' c~ ,~,e c~.teno. ,n~. ney -' ~ p'* ' The lis? identi!es 125 iQ'es o% er a rotc! withinacoupieiOO', ltsrea~yan~ :-~.~.: ~ r .. -.~-4.~ -;- ~-~ understand t~e_~ v;gantxes of _-Lagg::_g wehaccs_ and so on ara excroacm%er~:s tx_ Page 58 c,f 128 Pa~s 51 January '~6, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing This is really very, very tight. The approval on the variance here would set up a new weak 15,~k for all the other parcels on the PEP critical lands list. Some of those parcels, several are on Fleet's Neck. I want to add to the letter t~fis that Mr. MacFarlane is a contract vendee on this application. Tl~s is not a hardst~p case. T~s is a business and he does it-well. It is a calculated armmpt to raise the p~rcels market value by finessing h~s way past the tow~s standards all our standards. We want you to know that we support you and what you are do,ag. It's very important we want to stop the erosiun of the Town Code. The pressure ofre¼ew boards has become a cottage thdustry lately. It's becorn~ng routine to see article 78's whe~ an applicatiun fs rejected. We want you to deal w/th the situafiun. We want you to know that we ~ntend to see stopped and we want you to know that you have our support and whatever it takes to do that. I~d 1/ko to ask for now that you ask to liste~ to Gall Wickham who we've retained as our attorney t~s matter. ABIGAIL WICKHAM, ESQ: Thank you I wfll be brte£ My name is Gall Wickham of Matfi~uck representing the Fleet's Neck Property Owners Association w~ch I understand represents 180 far~Iies in the area. I w/Il ~ nnt to repeat some of the questions but some of the concerns that I have on this application. 26* as you said is very substantial a house of that size would loom over the neighburhoed. Tb~s is an estdulished neighborhood on a well traveled road and it would be a dehfment to nearby lots, create an undesirable change and adversaly effect the neig~;~orhood as reshfcted by standards No. 1 & 4 of your area variance c~fteria. The nearby lots do contaLn houses that are far back. Mr. Vale's house is 66' back. Mr. Bell's house is 50~ back. Mr. LeGrande's I had understood was 43', there is some dfscrepancy there. The code if you may remember o~fg~nalty provided for a 35' setback hq a residential zone. The town thought that wasn't enough and increased it quite a number of years ago to 50. But even the ho~ses built many years ago in this neighborhood are as I mentioned generally further back and there was a reason that this particular property was not developed until now it's just too small The applicant is really trying to establish 2 benefits by this variance. The first is the ability to build a house in the first place and the 2~a is to build a big house if the lot is buildable. Let me start again. Without a variance [ don't believe the property is buildabIe because if you have 50' from the road and 50' from the wedands, there's not enough room. If the let is buildahle with a small variance from your board then it has value, considerable value because it is waterfront. So you are by your variance creating value on this lot as Mr. Huntington mentioned. Fo allow a big house as the applicant wants will create tremendous value which isn't there. So he's n]7 looking l'~)~ finis x mimicc to cre:itc il l}uge value thai doesn't alreztdy exist because ~1 big house equates to big money. Further you are looking at a 66' length which when you have a shore front yard setback further antplifies the impact. The front yard vati. ance should be reduced considerably the length should be considerably reduced if in fact you feel this should be allowed to be a buildable lot. Now the fact that the Trdstees put a permit on this property was governed by their evaluation of it's proximity to the wetlands and it's footprint and they pushed it back towards the road leaving you in this position. So there's an inherent conflict between your 2 boards and what they are allowed to do on their property and their approval should not in any way be construed as a comment that this is an appropriate place for the house. You have to look at whether an adequate front yard setback on this property would result in a no from the Trustees and therefore it's not a buildable lot. The fact that there are 3 lots being merged really should not g/ye the applicant the bonus points he's looking for if you look in the tax map that Mr. Olsan Page 51 of 128 Sou'!a d Town Board of Aooea s Re.~u3ar Meet'.sg Public submi~ed ~aere ~e n,~s~~ e~prep~ies ~rat have csmb~aed 3 S~ed ~s~ ~ets. So i?s ~et i have copies of~r. V~e% s~ey aid ~. BeFs s~wey~ He ddah maP/ion b,st ~sa Pyas diagonally across ~cm~ lite sLTee~:. ~f~ cou'~d ~ve you 7 cop:es sho,//2s S~eir seffsack you. road what t}_at wou~d de is that whs2 yo~ ~e taEdng about? CH~RWOM~N: Customaily ~o~ ~ tlne 7$~lding envelope -~nicla me-~s Wns/: yo~ wo~id be pe~Jeed if you a~ered to fine code 2e 50~ s~fsack in ice fizcnt ~.d 2fyc'x a~aerafi to tits 50 setback to the wetlands &nd tlae 40: non-dis'caXs~ce zons. Visaai~y ,ales: Frn ]oo~dng a~ MR. OLSEN: We could get the engineer to do 'tat but !frs nor on rlce sareey 'tinct was The !suilding envelope for this p~:_cuI~ house was developed in conce~ with the rscuesz e~ihs T~.stees. That's how it ~oz wl~ere it is. But if you want to see a bui~dlng envelope r~e~hng cu~t setback resunremen:s front yesd :e~' y~d side y~-ds 2m s,cre we could bays- CHAIRWOMAN: Along wk!a the Tmstse aphreval mhd their restfcffcns. ~a'- Fm getting can ' isual' } see that the building envelope is yeti hmitec Z} locks iike you nm-e s~ ~he imk this size house as going any runner toward the we/lands a{ MR. OLSEX: Not to mistrust you but we canl 8o clsser tc the wetlands cause ~nis is ~car ~he Trustees approved. CHAIRWOMAN: There's a 2-c~~ garage on the boPom ~ su¢pose you cou:d cur thcs do-~c t{ a i -ca' gsxage that would pick up 5' and bring you up to 3124 you've heard *ice conceals. We are ali laminar witI~ flak Fs an ! 860' footnrim on res house _frs not a small ZOL1Se. MR. OLSEN: The feopffnt for tP_e house is 14.~9 m7d then there's tlne iootpiat for t!e garags which is another 200 sc. ff. Page 52 of 128 Page 53 january 151 2003 $outhoid Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing. CHAIRWOMAN: It's an attached garage so the overall footpr/nt is 1860. Mr. MacFarlane is acknowledging that. I really want that clear in the record. MR. OLSEN: We a~ready said it's gohag to be a total of lsd0 includthg thegarage. The downstairs li¼ng space-e'f the house is It4d0. CHAIRWOMAN: What we are going to do is adjourn this heating to February da at d:40. The board memabers have questions at t~s point and we'll get the board members questions and then we are going to adjourn MR. OLSEN: Can t just make a'brief commcmt and reply to what the people have smd opposition or basically it boils down to I represemt the Saldussel family I do not represant Mr. MacFarlane. I don't care what they call Mr. MacFartane if he's developer or what. I represent the property owner and they are the ones if tiffs variance is not ~anted they are the ones that are really going to be hur~. They have owned t~s property a long time, they have been paying taxes on tk~s property. They are under contract we are workSng w~th Mr. MacFarlane but my real duty is to the Scblussel family and that's who I represent. As far as ali the comments and letters that have come in and so on they ail addressed environmental issues which have been addressed by the DEC and the Trustees and we have approval. The other thing is they are talking about the average sethack. Th~s is an old developed community where the houses were built before zoning and as I said before most of the houses where they are now the town would cry out ~ horror as to where they put the houses. %he reason they are setback more than 50' from the road is because most of the parcels are long narrow pieces and guess where the houses are r/ght plunked down on the areek because evcTcbody / nobody in theSr r~ght n~nd would but a waterfront parcel and put their ~_ouse up 50' from Stillwater Ave. they want to be down where the view is. ThaCs why we have the situadon with the other parcels. Somebody suggested I tl~nk k was Mr. Wacker that be lives in a house that's 800' well that's wonderiSal bnt guess what today you couldn't live in an 800' house the town code wouldn't allow it. The town code still is 850 sq. ft. for a minimum size of a residence. But nobody today would especially with the pr/ce of property would want to build a 5ouse that small. Mr. Vale is referring that he is an adjacent land owner. He really isn't an adjacent land owner he lives across the street. And quite frankly part of the reason the house we've combined 3 lots and the house is where it's proposed to be built is because of Mr. Vale. know he did not want his view blocked he didn't want to buy the pro?e~y because he's expensive, but he d}&~'t want his view blocked so he's been before tl~e T~ustccs every s[e? ot'tl~e way. The house where it is now really helps him rather than hurts him beca~tse it's been pushed closer to Mr. LoGrande's property. Also on Stillwater there's no uniform sense to the community. This is an old pre-existing zoning community some houses are close some houses are further back, but it's not like it's a community where all the houses are complying with today's zoning. The reason we have a ZBA is to give people like the Schlusse[ family relief from the current cede on theses pre-existing properties because we can't meet the current code. Tlnat's why we are here because it is a balancing act as I said ~n the beginnthg of'my preser~t~tion. MEMBER ORLANDO: I thirkk you've expanded past your brief period. Page 53 of 128 ~e prob~, ~so O~[ Wic~ mentioned tha~; ~_e old ;ode was 35~ setback now of co;:~so it's 50 ~e~ fh{s propem5~ yeas developed k was 35~ smd th~ doe town cods w~ um So if h was 3 CHAPJ~fO~¢~N: We w~re supposed to breri( so: 1 l:3C, it's %ow 12:50 we have mno~her sst hem~mgs comxmg ~2 a~ i :0O ~d fl*~e ~oo~d me. sera need a bre~. it ~21 be adjo'mmed &mill 5:48 C~¢/OMAdX: i%r, Goe~ixge% yot~ a question regsding ~te plan~ ~e ch~erson reSected on this but you basically L~ front cf t~a proposed l~ouse you have ?ihs 2 ~ajoz jogs tlnat protzTds '~owards Sffllwat~r joke wi%cie the fnma when in for the suf- and the tailor said hold your land this wa]' sit like this go like that bend over amd he did aX dagl and now they said the suit fits netJectly. ~We got kinds of jogs because we go: pushed here tugged there. Could these Nnes ge: s'n'ai~tened out~ Sure absolutely Pm no~ ~ng :o build the Im-gest house in the nei~zbs~d~ood, i waxt tc buRd CHAIRWOMAN: I think what Mr. Ooehfinger ~s saying is who. },cull Near right across board ~s cax you cu: f: back? MR. MACFARLANE: Vje are soi:~H to d~ that and ! thank you very much ~ ~ook {k rwa~a {o {axe a xard .oo~ at {ha{ s¢~as** seem~g eye,one ~.g~m on FeoPam~y 6 an~. we are going . ~ ~ ~ - - . .... u - - lh!n~ down and we'i! see wna~ we c~ do w!~ia it CHAIRWOklAN: Mr, Orlando. P[EMBBR ORLAN-DO: Are you buildi:-g tP:.s house for' 'ourse!C. MR. MACFARLAN-E: The mzswer is yes sm~ gasolutely i have i3 ~axdchildrer~ hcpef~ily ever ge'. approval to build this house I year 2 years 5 yeas later iql :zz~<e fiends wkh Page 54 of 128 Pa~a 55 January t6, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeais Regular Meeting Public Hearing neighbors if1 don't I have plenty of dnildren, grandch/ldren to visit me. The answer is the house is being built for myself solely my Mfe was born in Italy - solomente. CHAIRWOMAN: Ms. Oliva. MEMBER OLIVA: AgaSn I have the same reservations as other people. I admke youke keeping some of lot open and t am very sensitive to the wetland and you are constricted but I also would like to see the house shortened because it w~ll make a big effect. MR. MACFARLANE: ~ wSlI take into consideration the height so that the height is wkh/n bomcds and then back some. CHAIRWOMAN: We are go/rig to adjourn th~s to February dt~ at 6:40 pm at which time Mr. Olsen is going to show us elevation plans the building envelope and possibk suggestions to cut that front yard those little dog ta/ls out of there so we can see how far back we can get I recogrfize you have a Ikn~ted buSldkng envelope I also reeogrfize the community has legitimate concerns that need to be adckessed mud once again the vmSances requested here can be quke substantial. I make a motion adjourning t~fis to Februaw 6th at 6:40 pm. ][:34 Nm AlC~L 5262 - JAMES FALLONo Tt~s is a request for a variance under section 30.A.4, based on the Building Department's September t 9, 2002 Notice of Disapproval to construct an accessory in-ground swimming pool proposed partly in a side yard rather than entirely in the rear yard. Location of property 3050 Fairway Dr}ve, Cutchogue 109-5-14 & 16 (as 1 combined lot). CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? JIM FITZGERALD: Jim Fkzgerald here for the Mr. Fallen. les another case of a house being located in sited in a strange way on the lot. It's my understanding that this is the first house built in the subdivision it was built I think by the developer and I guess he thought he wanted to look out on the golf course. Anyhow we would like to build a swimming pool as is shown in the project plan which also gives dan dimensior~ of the pool fi'om the various prope~y lhms also il;cludes ai feince whid~ I bdicvc is p. ora matter of cot~ccrn. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Can I ask him a question Lydia? CHAIRWOMAN: Just a moment, because we just pulled all these files in. I'm sorry, continue. MR. FITZGERALD: I xvas done speaking, want me to say it again? CHAIRWOMAN: No it's apparently straight fo~wcard application for you have conforming 41K sq. ft. lot 18x36 pool and it would be 20' at the closest to the sonth property line. Let's see if the board members have any questions. Ms. Oliva. Page 55 of 128 MEMBER OL~A: No, i was there, ME~ER O~%~0: ~e jusfificaffon ffcr not p~ng in ~e ~ac2 y~d is whir ~:ey w~n look s:: th~ golf com~ you say? Nooks- MR. F%ZGE~LD: ~. FITZGE~B But ihafs okay~ MEMBER ORLANDO: I ws jus': ~vondenng if they could ifpu looked at possibly p"SYJxg tlnere. I was ~us: wondering if they ~hou~:t of any avmTaes besides purfng it in that comer are saying they have thcu~tt aboui it. It doesn't cN~gs 'the va?ronco k~ust changes the s~fcacks ts adjacent lots that's ail MEMBER GOEHRN-GER: The question i have of Mr. Fitxgerald is what kind of deJxkg are the} proposing around it which would then Pmther limit the side ygrds revolve- MEMBER GOEHRI-GBR: So it would be like a brick path or something like f2mt brick or stone or something of that naears? So if the beard is so inclined to ~ant this sEpiicsdon ~_d wc ~-anted 20' there isn't asy reascn we would have 1o wo~ abou'- hat then? MR. FITZGPRALD: i-hat's righ MEMBER GOEHR~GER: On the fact that the decking is ro~ going zo be ra:s sd arour:d thc pooI. And there is no intentions of the appHcmnts plating ?_at in this locstior s~d there is no intention of the ap?lcsnt enc!osh$ this in stay way fight? Page 56 of 128 P~§e 57 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Headng MR. FITZGERALD: No I am sure he would agree to that requirement. MEMBER HORNING: I don't have any questions. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLIJT[ON 1:40 ~m Al~l. 5260 - SP[ROS & IRENE ?APAD@POUL@S. This is a request for a variance under section 30.A.4, based on the Building Department's October 21, 2002 Notice of Disapproval concerning a gazebo proposed in an area other than the rear yard. Location of property 5155 Inlet Lane, Greenport 43-4-34. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? SPIROS PAPADOPOULOS: I wasn't prepared to make a speech however it ali started about a year and a half ago. I have 4 grandckildren and they were asking me to build them a duilhouse. I'm not a carpenter and Pm not able to build a doIlhouse. The next best thing t found was ~ saw a gazebo which I'm still puzzled why a gazebo is illegal or violates any zoning. CHAIRWOMAN: It doesn't if it's in the proper location in the yard. The proper/legal location in the yard is the rear yard. MR: PAPADOPOULOS: We want something for the kids to play in the rear yard besides the point I have the swimming pool and tbe cesspools there. I only other place I have are 2 front house and I didn't know it was illegal in the first place. CHAIRWOMAN: How did you happen to come here? MR. PAPADOPOULOS: Someone came and told me I was violating the local l~tws. CHAIRWOMAN: Somebody from the town? MR. PAPADOPOULOS: Yes and he knows the property it's a 2 side front and he says you have to apply for a permit and they are going to deny it and then you have to ask for a variance if you're going to keep the gazebo. The gazebo doesn't have a fbundation. It doesn't have anything it's just put on the ground so the kids can enjoy themselves &tring the summertime if they are here. Again as I said bel'ore I just can't see what harm does the gazebo do to anyone. The town or the people around it besides the point that the neighbors do not object but I just can't see a minor thing like that to take your time and my time for a gazebo. Anybody who hears about it laughs at me. Page 57 of 128 .~anuas~/18, 2803 SouthoJd Town 3oard of A?pea~s RegGar Meeting Public CHAi~WO~N: Iffs ~a~ly ~e ~-sC tbne ~e ~ave he~ ~s, ~ ,~ say ~o ~ou S~a~ we lave XR. PAI~OPOULOS: As I s~d before the rea ya'd is a swkca%k~g poi and cesspools MEZ~ER OP~.~X/O: It wo~d probably still be ~n ~s ~'oz2 y~rd, MR~ P~OPOLTLOS: Ei~ way k's ~ Cae ~ont ya*d. CH~RIYOY~%': Xr. Homing. MR. PAPJ~OPO~LOS: No sir, tilers ~s tile s~Pz%ing poe! wlsicP~ is covered greedy prope~y is about ] 5' tile cesspool is tlc~s. Titan you ge': tlhe fence wn:clc is tine rest office yard the front MR. PAPADOPOUZOS; Ceyrect. MEMBER GCEHRN-GBR: l'il pass ov this one. A'ibN'iB~R OLiVA: l can_ sc~ n'o'n thc :'x o' c,:". ',~:_k~: .','0 x~u:: MX. PAPADOPOULOS: Bctk. Tke main enreace is ou inlet Lane and ihs gg~eSo is more 25' Eom Inlet Lane o~ Maxhasset Avenue. MEMBER OLZVA: I'd have to leok at it aaan. I don"- see how you can't 1c~ove it in tke back MX. PAPADOPOCLOS: Fine CHAIR-WOMAN: Ruth are you rsq~aesdng we adjorzr_ ti:is? Page 580f(28 Page 59 January 16, Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MEMBER OLIVA: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for er against the application? CHRISTENA SERIANAS: I think it enhances the place. We and alt of the neighbors have no objection to this. We think iOs veW pretty. MEMBER OLFVA: IOs just a matter of code. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands Itl make a motion adjottrning this t,~earing tmfil 6:50 February · 1:47 pm ApO. 5229 - Estate af MARIE HILLER. This is a request for a variance under section 26 to unmerge 2 merged parcels, one being the northerly (vacant 123-3-2) portion containing 18,447 sq. 12. of land area proposed i'or a future dwelling, and the other being southerly 31,031 sq. ft. portion (improved 123-3-4.1 ) based on the Building D eparimenOs July 19, 2002 Notice of Disapproval determining that this property has merged due to common ownership aider July 1, 1983 (May t, 1983). Location 125 & I:65 Bungalow Lane, Mattituck (described larid}. CHAIRWOMAN: 1:s someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? GARY FLANNER OLSEN, ESQ: Good afternoon my name is Gary Flanner Olsen and I'm the attorney representing the applicant, the estate of Marie T. Hiller. The applicant is seeking a waiver of merger under Section 1000-26 of the Southold Town Code for tax lots 1000-12%3-2 & 4.i. There*s currently a I-family dwelling on lot 4.1. Marie Hiller and Raymond A. Hiller as husband and wife purchased part efta× lot 4. l on February 17th, 1954 as husband and wife in Liber 3664 pg. 125 from A1 & Julia Scbwicker being p/o lot # 1 and p/o lot # 2 being part of Maratooka Farm bengalow sites filed in the SC Clerk's office on May 7th, 1914 on file # I9. On November 9~h, 1902 Rayn~ond & Marie Hiller purchased a parcel ftom Willian~ & June Barker Liber 5267 pg. 85 which became p/o lot 4.1. Made Hiller purchased tax lot # 2 on June 30, 1970 in her own name obviously in an ef±brt to keep it in single and separate ownership in Liber 6770 pg. 397. Raymond A. Hiller predeceased his wife Marie therefore resulting in a merger of tax lots 4.1 and lot 2 by death. Following the criteha set forth in the town code for a waiver of merger we respectfully request that the board grant the waiver for the following reasons. One the waiver will not result in a significant increase in the density of the neighborhood. This is a residential community with homes on the majority if not all the surrounding tax lots. ! have submitted a list of all the sm~-ounding tax lets which list the sizes and whether or not each lot is built upon. i'll hand that into you now it appears from what I've done that the only vacant lot in this area is tax lot # 2 which is the subject of this application. Accordingly, the granting of the waiver will not create any significant increase in density. It's only the one lot. The waiver Page 59 of 128 wordd reco~Jze a Lot that ~s consistent w~tE Ire s~ze of;c :s :m ':?~e :~t3o:htood ~t ~s e~d~t by l: any event fine ap~aisai shows that '~!e prcp~ies berg sold 'mgefasr ~ nnsrg~2 ;ors have a cmn'est va~ue of $785K however tile va>ce for the lots b~ing sold sep~-ately ate $660X flor ice MR~ OLSEN: CHAIRW0~g~N: Ju~d ~h~ va!u~ ofll~ Enp~owd iel- CHA/R%~OM~%: ~d e-haf~ is ~se size of'~e ~Ank%m-cved IcL? M~. OLSEN: 18.447.59 s~ fi, according to ¢~e smwey of Stmiey lssacsem licensed stow-myer or 0/,23 a~es. By the way, on thai sheet fia~ ! passed our _o you a corel:lc ago it does have what ali the other s:ze. %%at ~he lots on the st'~e": sro as 9:: as size. Ant'thor thing the board should consider is whether or not tie natcral details smd chgracter and cot:curs not b s a substm%ial fling oflsmd efi~cfirg nearoy envkommental cr flood areas. Accordlng.y i fee! as thou~z we have mee{ all the ctdteria mentioned in Section i 03-26 cf tlne Scuthold Town Code and respectfdy requesl {last ~e board ~'gnt l'he waiver of r_erger as thc board has A. Whclan who is the owner of tax lot 123-2-2 indicstin~ that she has no objection re ~h!s wa:ye- of motrin- aophcarcon, i have als( sul~ mi~ted to {he board a letter from Edna R Tonneson }wxer %Vhelan and [onncson parcels are directly 8cross the street on Bungalow Lane ~rom thc property and i have requested tllal Rob Xenman of EnConsuitanis also sFe~{ on behalf of t!is application He is here -c address the env~roP~_enml :ssues coxcexuz g ihls ROB HBRRMA~: Good afternoon_ my nm~e ;s Rob Ke~an with tl~e fi~ EnCoxsukax!s ]ocs. ted !329 N. Sea Road SouthamNon. What Mr. Oiscn asked me lo do firm_ a perspective enVll'01ll%e!llhi CONS;dither WaS I0 cxi'illlno a survey ]3Fo?fll'e(i D} ~iai-I iSSaCS01l hfl[ tV0h~](, ~he suhfcc~ ps, rcm or The }uteri fur which the pr. rcm, ~s oetng re?ms:cd .c see wna~ him. would look like on it's own and see whether there would be some other xon-ccnfcmrZiies oreo:ed for other agendes because even if this sac'ce- is allowed to be ummerged if yom wll by this sos. rd ultimately the apphcan'~ would se struck with i~ ~ ~spo~:s~o~.~y ..... ~. ..... g o. ........ ns =s~e 8E of !28 PaGe 81 Southo[d Town Board of Appeals Re§ular Meeting Public Headn§ prior to w~ch it would be necess~ to obta~ pemts ~om ~e ~S Dept. of En~oment~ Conse~afion, ~e To~ of Southold Bo~d of Trustees ~d the SC D~t ofHe~ Se~ces. So M~ my coor~nafion ~. Issacson pr~ed a p[~ shoMng a proposed res~d~ce wi~ ~ a~ached g~age a ~veway pro~ng amess ~om B~g~ow L~d ~d a proposed smt~7 syst~. ~s is not necess~ly memt to ~n~cate what ~e H~II~ wo~d [~ f~ct cons~ on ~s prope~ ~fthe v~ce w~e ~mnted, but o~y to show ~ exmpte of what could be cons~ct~ on ~e prope~ ~d whe~ it would confo~. I Mi~ hmtd 6 copies or,at map up to you so you c~ follow ~ I spe~ to ~ose ma~s. No~st~ng ~e ~ssues of world or He~ D~t isles ~at wouM have to obtained as of co,se ~wa~ ~mpo~t to look at whe~ a dwelling couId be cons~cted on ~e prop~ ~at would confo~ w~ ~e towns b~d~ng ~d zo~ng regulations. I~s were ~t~ a w~v~ ofmerg~ ~t wa~d e~st ~ a s~e lot ~d~ zomg as sho~ on ~e s~ey as a .42~ a~e lot or 18~447 sq. ~. so you would look to ~e po~on of~e zo~g code that pro,des ~e setbacks for ~ ~d~s~z~ p~cel or pr~e~s~g ~ders~ed p~cel ~d ~at wo~d req~e a ~ont y~d s~b~ck of35* ~mm side y~d of 10~ a to~a[ s~de y~d of25~ ~1 ofw~ch ~s propos~ dwetI~ng would ~om to. ~e re~ y~d setback of~5~ ~s essenfi~y ~ mute req~r~t ~ a much ~eater setback ~s r~uked ~ ~e rog due to the presence ofwe~ds. ~e wed~ds as ~e bo~d ~ows ~s re~ated not only by ~e town Trustees but by the NYS DEC. Because of~e elevations present here spec~fic~iy elevations above 10~ above me~ sea leve~ k is my belief hhat ~e ~S DEC would ~t a tidal wefl~ds Iett~ of nonj~sd~c~on to ~ offs cons~cfion became you have ~eater ~ 10% slopes ~om ~e elevation 12 seaw~d ~t ~s my ~ess based on expefi~ce ~at ~e DEC wo~d te~ate ~ek j~sd~cfion not at the 10* elevation but at ~e ~2* elevation. Reg~dtess ~1 of ~e ~ns~cdon ~aCs d~icted here would be out of thor j~sdiction ~d ~f a pe~t w~e req~red it would o~y be for ~y associated cie~ng ~at wo~d occ~ below ~e 12~ conto~ mud ~ don~t believe that m~y such ciemng wou~d be necess~. We do ~ow that ~e town ~stees ~e ~n the process of enacting a moratorium on wetl~d applications so ~t would be a matt~ of 12 months. According to what ~ u~derstand before an application could be heard for this but based on my experience w~th the ~stees and what their with chapt~ 97 of~e town code and what their policies they do require as a st~d~d a that s~itaw systems or at least ~e leaching po~on of ~e s~it~ system which ~s ~e cesspool be located a m~m~ of 100* ~om their wetl~ds ~d that s~c~res meet at least the state's requkement of a 75~ setback ~om ~e wetland bo~daw. This proposal would achieve both of those setbacks in effect placing the septic system actually beyond the trustees ~urisdiction under chapter 97 of the ~own code. It is probably possible that we also include the septic tatl}k outside ti}at 100' range tltis isjust something chmva Lip by Mh Issacson he is not a profbssional engineer in the habit of designing sanitary systems so I'm sure that ifa PE looked at this the entire syst~ could be desired beyond tee 100' setback. The only other pe~it that would be required before obtaining a building pe~it would of course be a health depa~ment pe~it so we have to look at what the feasibiliW is of placing both the well mxd s~ita~ system on this lot. The placement of the drinking water well is shown up on the southwest comer of the propeNy adjacent to Bungalow Lane. As I expect on this prope~y the 150' separation requirement wmdd be in place from adjoining cesspools. This proposed well would be ~ insufScient distance fi-om both the proposed cesspool and from the cesspool to the no~:h. However I don't ~ticipate ~ere would be ~y problem obtaining vafi~ce approval ~om · e He~ Dept. because ~e well is so si~ic~tly up-gadient of~ose pools. Rendering of ~ose pools abii~ty to contaminate the proposed well impossible. In other words would Page 61 of 128 have to flow upst%e~m ag~st ~a~ty ~ order m e,ze~ ~e apkc~s ~dj $,~2. prel: ~V ~o h~e sot;~ o emed by _ L~m~ ~md ~asr~y be me wa ~c ~ ~ga_~ ;~ .... sma co~rs, Pm happy ~o ~swe: MEMBER ORL~%~O: Not a qnestion n,~u~ ........ a s~g.em~m'- ~j~s~ ~" ......... wm. So~tho[d Town does not i oho'aid say - ~ ~ T~, ~' m~ger ~s gz~e. So we would be re-creating ....... - ,- - ........ , MR~ i-IEF~/~: ?d~, ~ I mn~erst~_~ mas wha~ ~. O~m~ .s ~e m g:rgu~. _ trn~ ne just ~ked me to ~r '-o ' ~ : * a2 untengok s~m~,x. ~xq.h .esp~..~ s_e_ agencies. CHAIRWOMAN: Tka~< you ve:v muck Mr. ONex ljus: have a quick ques:ion, la looking tomeandrolc_yo'~-owntestllc_onya2OfTorl ' '~ ~ ~%,R ?--his and w,~ be.~weu a _~ .... ~ ....... a~_. end we bestowed a mti~ mt ;x~m up wk~ w_ a~ we Lave as ~rnp;oved lot i now and prez':} muc:_ {ne same 2 am i understanding that corcctly? [R. ~i -c ,, Yes. P'utofZ-i , "" ' "'' " ...... ' ..... ' Schwicker aha pmq was pm'cnaseo i think anothe: 50' suus was 3u~c_l~soG was originally the isa< from Schwicker was :et 4. i s~ 3ke to Jack Snere'ood dayaldnes¢._c > '- ' ~ '- ~ ~+ +- .~, .c ........ 4A CHAIRWOMAN: So as far as the original submv~smn .mas ~:om revmw they Lo. vcu't rem_~ MR. OLSEN: Like so mmw otkers in fine town. Pe% :e j asr rang tree ago menffon tha um vac~ proc& M.s X~d r ~: s when she nassed away has ;'-5 - -~ ~ .... '~=' - *~ 'a daughter Barbara Weathers axd Sm :wLo =~ap~ens t~ ~ ne~e .~d y and a Page 62 cf128 January 18, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meetin9 Public Hearing buiid on the vacant parcel and as far as my handling of the estate, it's important to me to know whether the board will grant t,his because it really substantially effects what 1[ have to report in my state tax return as far as valu~ and there's tremendous value in the tot and also my experience in these waiver situations particularly when it's by death. Obviously we are trying to protect the sthgle and separate ownersI'fip byptttfing lot 2 ~n the husbands name and the rest in MrscHillar's name and the husbands name. My experience with the board is that these waiver o£merger applications are almost routinely granted. That's all I have to say. CHAIRWOMAN: Ruth. MEMBER OLtVA: Not at th~s th'ne. MEMBER ORLANDO: ~ made my comment. MR. OLSEN: ~ thktk Mrs. Smith would like to say somett2ng before we close the heating. The other th~ng is if you don't grant it this piece is gohng to be an oversized parcel compared to all the others, ffyou look at that sheet that I submitted it shows you what the size of some oft.he other parcels in the area. Tax lot 2 would be keeping in generally/n size and shape of the others on the street. MS; SMITH: Part of the real thrast of our case is the fact that we want to keep part of mom and dad's property in the family'. The smaller piece of property would be better for us to be able to build a home for my sister to have. She 1ives out of state and tbJs would be where we both grew up and we both are very anxious to keep part of it in our family. For our whoie family's use to keep the whole piece it wouldn't be desirable. It would be a little too much of a hardship for us to keep it because my husband and I live in Cutchogue we don't feet it necessary that we have to move to Matfituck but this piece of property would be something that we would extend on. The Schrickers were a part of our family as well. That was an aunt and an uncle so in actuality the property has belonged to the family for a long, long time and we would just like to continue that ownership. CHAIRWOMAN: You would like to build on the un-improved lot to keep as a family. MS. SMITH: Ex:~ctly. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Nothing at this time. MEMBER HORNING: No. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the m~dience who would like to speak for or against the application? ADAM GROSSMAN, ESQ: Good aRemoon chairwoman and members oftheboard. My name is Adam Grossman and I'm an attorney in Riverhead and I think I've seen you all not too long ago. I was before this board. I'm here on behalf of adjacent property owners who own property Page 63 of 128 Scutho d T~wn Board of Asneals Regula: 5/,eegns Sub:c iqea*in~ . ,snem,~ =~ fas~ _~ ss alspropnate tc avpHed by ff2e m~T~Be: of ~s be~d h det~n~ng ' ' "~ ~ * :~" ' cass sool dkec~:t --Y ad[~cer:' acd a wazer s~pc[Y an&g- - ~ ....... ~ ~ ..... impacted by whatever k is mat s gomg to be dmle with 2P~s ps:cal. ~ - . - ~. . -x .~ - Aaa: :mow =.~o~__ey ~. be appLcarL ~ ~ - r~-~ *~ ~ '-~ '~:'~ ex~ires this ail gels de:aysd 3u': a'r ~o ............. ~ ~; ........ y decide to build -xesummg tbs beam womd ~am ~e~ef ._a~ faCher vaMazce Fek!e7 !TOlTs tn:s boa_d. ~ .h~.z{ my el!eh'cs wou~d oe ve~ coccanle4 if tbs2 wars to take place. Other man Sa~ w,,us~ ~.sK 2.at you zoJow the rev:sions ' ' ' .he c for the waiver apy dca'dons to ffm m.~r ~nd 'a~¢~ aisc you c~_s.o~: -~ nmsam ._~¢., mis apex CHAIRWOMAN: Your dients Caff: would be lo'- i ? ~n~ ~_m ~~.~ ,o g~ve you ~he stent admess iey me ~. aha I: ~'-- ~ ~ ~-~a~ ~ MR. GROSSMAN: Pll ~ve you'- ~ ~ x the tax map nmmber as v/eh. They are a~ 1645 Xaraiooka Road and o~, ihe survey k is ~ejseem te the neRhwest ' · , CiAiRV/O~AN: is there anyone else in the au. diencc wn wauld like tc speak ~br or agams~ the application? Page 84 cf 128 Page 85 JanUar~ 18,2003 Soathold Town Board of Appea~s Regular Meeting P~b[ic Hsari~ ~. HE~: One poem for cl~ficafion for ~e spewers ~ents ~s question ~d ~s is v~ imposer dewing w~ ~e he~ d~t. ~t r~res a 150~ s~afion be~een a proposed s~fie syst~ ~d adjoining we~ls. ~e o~y adjo~ng well w~ch would not be m~nt~ned ~o~g sep~fion dist~ce is ~e one on ~e Hill~ prope~ w~ch ~s ag~n a developed lot it's Mt~n the sine f~y so ~e ~d be no v~ce req~red for ~s cesspool M~ respect m ~y pmp~, ~m's outside of~e H[iI~'s f~ily ~d ag~n the H~ll~s ob~ously have ~e ab~li~ ~nt~al~y to move ~he~r well ~o~d accord~y. C~WO~N: Iti m~e a motion closing ~s he,rig rose,rig decision ~fil tats. PLEASE SEE ~ES FOR ~SOL~ION 2:~5 ~m A~I. No. ~235 ~ CAROL A. PEARCE. ~s ~s a request for a V~mce ruder Se~on 100=2~B, b~ed on ~e B~l~g D~mt's Sept~b~ I~, 2002 Nofi~ D~sapprov~ conc~mg a proposed ad~fion ~d ~t~afions to ~e e~sfing dwelrmg, po~ons of w~ch ~e less th~ 40' ~om the ~ont prop~ 1/ne. ~cafion: 470 Do~ood Lmne, M~on; 38-5-2. C~WO~N: Is ~e someone h~e who wo~d l~e to spe~ in favor or,at application? We have to say goodbye to o~ F~shers Isled m~b~ who is going to spend Ebout a h~f a day ~avel~ng to get b~ck to F~sher's Isl~d~ JE~ER GOULD, ESQ: My nme is J~fer Go~d. I'm h~e today r~resenting C~oI Pe~ce. I don't ~ow if you've had a ch~ce to look at her application yet but what she wo~d l~ke to do ~s put a 2 story addition on to her house ~d she received a Notice of DisapprovaI because ~t encroaches just sU~dy ~nto ~e ~ont yard. ~e setback by code is 40', and if you have a copy of her su~ey you'll see that the southwest comer of ~e proposed addition confo~ce w~th the setback but because of the ra~ce of Dogwood L~e as you go e~t t~es h~ a t~tde bit out of confo~JW so we are asMng for about a 410" v~ce to do addition. Her lot is just a l~tde bit over 20,000 sq. ~. ~08' over which puts her into the 40' setback rather th~ the 35' setback and you may wonder why the addition is here rather than not ~her back on the prope~y and it's for a couple of reasons. When she first wzs designing, she was going to pt*t the additio!~ ou tt~c back of bet property because as yot~ can see she has a lot propeay in the rear. However when she got the plans drawn they realized that their septic system ~d ~e cesspools were in the back so that they could not cover those up. Also on this westerly side of the prope~y, st~e has a barroom window ~d a ~tchen window that would be covered up if we moved ~y of this ~er back, you ~ow ~other 4' back so we could confo~ with the code. It would also involve the removal and r~lacement ofprop~e and ~el ta~ lines and as I said in the beginning it's aveW diminutiveness request, it's less than 12.5% vahance over the code. Do you have any questions? CHAIRWOMAN: I did I thou~t we did have a letter in the file a nei~bor was concerned about this, I believe you do. We did have a letter of concern on ~is ~d the letter of conc~ simply was it's going to create from the adjacent west prop~y owner. Page 65 of 128 you s~ ~:~ comma of :h~ proposed ad~t~on [s 40.2' Yack. ~sc I lc_ow that ]~s. Oli-~a !ad ~ MS. GOb%D: I doer have s ie%~ but I '~derst~d he's tP~e westciy exisemg house ~d I ~d=st~d '~:ey ~e concerned abont not mo¥ing fi back 4' ~om t~e prcp~y copy cf t~s ~e?~ ~ here, b*~; ~ey ~e ooncsmed. MS. GOULD: Pm f~Iiar M~ the ~ea. but tkeiz %aw. they mus': Us talking ~co~z thel, r side de.merit to ~e property mslnly because the cu:~e i2 the road will m~ke a si~ifiz~fc i~¢ ~c: on the fxont of our propers. 2 wo,~ld be extending yo-~ si~act:xe ~zm yet: ba6xy~*d to v/k~!n g few feat short of the ire% yard. Pm ve~ so:~ you donk have a oopy of lac BOARD SECRET~RY KQWALSi~: There's oho/ds with it MS. GOULD: Do you w~,~ to tale a look aL k ]:_ko ! said tko 47 is 4GL So they ere about 4' in avext srmJ~ 7 scion of the overall property weYe nog talking shout 43' ~:il the way across. CHAIRWOMAN The only other thing I was gcmg MS. GOULD: The other thing i wanted to b~ng re put axenion if you look at total lot coverage even wZti the addition_ {es plus or mm-as 1 !% i me~e %ay cave g l-sto~- Nome they basically m~ing a i ~ s;cll home because the addison is omy over the new crososed ge:-age ifs nol lke ti~ey aye making a mcmansion and totally bnnging u:o the -whole house, ln~s is cps of the house. ]P'vou"ve been om there, tie housc is very uny and ~ine~ ors ~5~ r~qxe te make k hxe more of' a regular size hoase not an~ling huge. C~A~WO~NT: I understand. Would the board melbers like re wah unt5 Mrs. WiC~T~n kas Page 66 cf 128 PaCe 67 , January t8, 2083 Southold Tow~ Board of Appes[s Re§ular Meeting Public Hearin9 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I also would like to suggest that Ms. Gould and Ms. Wickham get together after the discussion and see if this can - there can be some discussion nn this that maybe ¢- should be taken care of. MS. GOULD: Be glad to. CHAIRWO~: Ms. Wicld~mm? ABIGAIL WICKHAM, ESQ: Let me just briefly try to clarify Mr. Cromack's concerns as stated in kis letter. My name is Abigail Wick. ham. I represent Mr. & Mrs. Cromack who own the adjoining property to the west lot 181 on the map of Gardener's Bay Estates section 3. On a 20,000 sq. fL lot the setbacks are small to begin with under the code and when you reduce them beyond that it does have a significant impact. It creates a more substantial effect than it would on a normal size lot and I think that is primarily our concern that it would affect the neighbors and their property. It has a particularly significant effect. WNle I agree it is a fairly small variance the curve in the road actually amplifies it because of the way you come around. It protrudes more into the front yard more than you would visually understand from being in the highway itself. You notice on their survey, their property line doesn't begin until beyond that · gravel insert and particularly as Mr. Cromack mentioned, it is a 2-story addition and the garage and a new garage and driveway would be located on the Cromack side of the property. It is unclear what the benefit is or the difficulty they are avoiding by asking for this retief because all they would really need to do is just move the house back slightly. They wouldn't need it and I don't think it would do anything more than block one window. I certainly understand why they want to expand their house. It is a tiny house as many are in the neighborhood. But a big 2-story addition with a garage driveway on this side, the neighbors would just appreciate if they could look at their plans again to see if they can conform it. CHAIRWOMAN: Are you asking for more time on this? MS. WICKHAM: We are asking that they - we are making a statement that they really don't have a need for a variance. This isn't a situation where you should have to grant a variance and it doesn't significantly h_~pact them if you don't, i'd be glad to speak to the school and see if we can discuss it among out clients ifyoLi wotdd like to give us ax short recess, bat other than that, I think that's our position. CHAIRWOMAN: Would the board like to recess this hearing until- MS. WICKHAM: She and I could perhaps write to you and submit our results of our communication. CHAIRWOMAN: Yes. GEORGE PETER: My wife and I live in the property southwest of their house which is if you look at the map just where it says Dogwood Lane that is our back and side yard. My wife and I Page 67 of 128 SaBuanj {8., 2S03 Southctd Town Board of Ap~eab Regular Meetln~ Pubic recer~y goz t~o v~nces :o put ae extensioF~ on the bec2 of cur Zouse ~rhch woshd be extended rote erst backym-d -~¢Jch we'aid be opposite 5eca-~e ~ere% a ~t&er~ ~d EDJr~g rco~ smd d~isg roo~ Ore ]~ge wo~d be fac~g Do~ood La~s w}2c}: would be i~ct ~ookhg ~m:e eyesore, but i fee] !Os pe~ec~y reason~o]e becssse fners's enou~, distance acd ~o,~J2 omc ~otally p!~ied along the Hre betwee~ t}~ 8~0 bosses, 3HA~WO~N: FiI :msl¢e a motion to recess ti~s hea~r_g for 20 rJrrates 'ap22 2:~,0~ excuse ire 2:45. CHARWOMAN: I m~e a mo{ion to re-cenvene~ We recesse6 ~iee Pe~%e P_e~ixg ~Tfl 2:45, rt ~s new 2:57. ME!v3ER OL~A: Ds we have a~ ABiGAiL WIC~AM: ~SQ: Unfen~aately~ ne E spoke to my clhea~ mca regm~i:cg Ge shco~beW issue 2:at was me%ioned, Mr. CroEack p:nred cu~ that the s3~cber~ an his side kept t~:. if you leek at the view looidxg wes~ shore ix your saT. pilot tlszt pretty rxuch says new shrobbe~1 on thc applicant% side are ve~1 small and it ]sst wouidn't ~ddress a 2-onesl nome xnionx:tstdy. Thc cosec ~o~s :n [he back and the p:~opane tank >it the sire woddn't be ~fFec~eY Il :,:$ Jk'c!x 'a~t}- _. x':'sh{ 'c-o'.-:c,'..m.on fttc 'x-(pc:',} - _cx,,~.:d _'n..> ',: s:cl JEN GOULD. ESQ: As l%s. Wickhsm staled, there is no compromise. We are ~alking as i said in the beginning dimin=tiveness z.t i know you have these oictu:es in yo-ar packe'-s_ but Ki give them ~o yo~ aga:n, h shows the s?wcbkePy be:weex ti:e ':~o yarcs. Ms. WiC~am sa:d her dent's ever~eens are tailer 5xan o~s. ours ~'e 6* they are going ~c g~ow he: c!!enfs a:e abonr 16'. CHAIRWOMAN: The ohotos we are iook:::g at are the C:omack p:ogexy Pa~e 88 of!28 Page 69 January Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MS. WICKHAM: You are lootdng at the Cromack property. The jogs are totally blocked out by I would like to add the fact that t do like the fact ttm~ 7~ou are havkng daytime : meetings. ':CHAIRWOMAN: So do we, we are actm~Ily awake. Do the board members have any questions? 711 make a motion alosing this hearLng resetting decision until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION 2:27 pm AppL No. 5256 - CHARLOTTE DIICKERSON. Ttfis is a request for VmSances under Section 100-239.4 and 100-33C, based on the Build'ma Department"s September 3, 2002 Notice of Disapproval, for: (a) a proposed new location ora dwellkng, replacing the existing building, with a setback at less than 100~ ]kom the top of the bluff of the Long Island Sound, and (b) a proposed accessory bulldog in a side yard area. Location: 4630 Blue Horizon Bluffs, Pecon~c; 74-1-35.51. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would lLke to speak on behalf of the application? ALAN DICKERSON: I'm the other half of the Dickerson family. My name is )dan Dickerson, her husband. Unfortunately she's in the hospital with surgery today. She couldn't be here, but we became very interesting in buykng this small piece of property as it belonged to my mother's farn~ly, the Vail fmmily up on the sound and they had a halfa dozen small summer cottages thare. We bought tt~s one surr~rner cottage that we could enjoy strictly dmfng the summer. We have installed a bulkhead below, we got the pennits from the Trustees and the DEC and we finally got the bul:~head instafled so the possibility of farther erosion to the embanicrnent should be mitigated. We want to keep the bungalow exactly as it is and move it back to it's new location behind the coastal erosion zone line and that's the reason for the two permits. Once we move it back then the litfle storage building to the east becomes the need for a variance because it's in the side yard and not the rear yard any longer. That's the only comments I can make about - we want to continue it's seasonal usage not make it a year-round bungalow or anything like that. We are going to keep it un-insulated and strictly use it during the summer and use as much of the dwel]ing as we can without improving it hardly at all. CHAIRWOMAN: You have an existing setback oft from the top of the bluff and you are proposing a setback of 24. The east part of that main building has been demolished, it's gone, it's history. MR. DICKERSON: It demolished by itself. It was built on wooden posts and the termites got into the east end and we started to try to reinforce the floor and the entire bungalow mud the entire bungalow and the east end kind of fei1 down around us so we bad it carted to the dump. But we intend to put it back in the same shape, stone square footage and san~e floor design. CHAIRWOMAN: That's the real question here because quite honestly the board is very reluctant to consider a 24' setback at the top of the bluff. ~ don't recall approving one in the years Page 69 of 128 Pag~ 70 Sanua~r :8, 2983 Southdd Town Baa~d of Appea:s Regu;sr Meet!ag Public Xeadng tirol i've be~ on ~e ~ s~d since i995~ ~aat ~s}_aped pm~ tha~ you wa% so re-cons-amc': comes out 4~ ofwhaCs ief: office exis~ng bungalow~ Since bofi~ sides of tko cxisfizg simp]y iiled th~ ~ you wo~Jd go Dons 24 to 28~ seiback, Yoga lave ~ existing setbac~ son~ah p~op~%~ Zn~ of 28L if yen moved'ii, sack ~celccr 8~ we would now be a': 36' ~&ids we~d be a 2et mere p~at~c]e ~a~a 28~ p~lic-al~y in view of to fact iai Nuns going to have ts MR. DICi~RSON: ~caffs C~/O}tN: l-~e off~ question thais o~vie~s is ~e Ne sure c~ mays ~. DiC~RSON: l ~ we ~e going to move k pieces a~c~r fsaiMng se a CH~%WO~: I wes sarma to myselfl don't ~cw kew yes ~e ge~sg sa move that wificca> MR. DiC~RSON: We saved J] ~e wid~ beads ~n tko main pa% of'ice stoat?are and sic:ed 'Js~ in {tat little storage building :o re-instsll them_ when fine constxcticn is fi:~shed. We wan. ~c put it on c~nent n~ers ~Js time instead of ween nests so it isn't quite as suets%ibis to dgnage ~ it was ~efese. v~' ih%ired build~g envelope, howm/~ if you were zo sknply line uz tlne reconstructed the whole thing hack 8~ pu vTovJ{ clad up wttha seloack of 36~ fvcr_ icg 10~ of tko Nuf~ as opposed to 2~ MR. DICKERSON: My immediate thou~% would be to reverse the L shape and have it gc souti instead, of CHAIRWOMAN: l~afs anotkes option. As long as ifs on ie same line as tko existing building whirl would leave } om a setback in the rear of approxix:ately 20' to the 2ropeRy l:me. h'li. D~CiiERSQN: You'.l :~ ticc tSu:'c's ut:'q 'c.c thcrc.l.a: uc t c l.',::iu ' ',va:l, ~:,'t bccausc we called MPA and issade an a~angsmen, to :taro ais Ch=tricot come oar a-wi moving ~ie pole back to the property line to tile south, but ay the time we gca done k was to cost ever SS000]USt lO !move i pole. We are t~ing 7o week around ilo size of eke eve~hing else. CHAtWOMAN: You jusl bough: the iota couple of year ago? MR. DiCK~RSON: Yes. 2000. CHAIRWOMAN: Lefssee~ffl:ekoardmembe:shaveanyques'!ons. Mrs. OEva? Page 78 of ~28 ,J~nuery 18~ 2803 SouthoM Town Board of Appea~s Regular Meetin~ Public Headng MEMBER OL~A: ~ get a - for yo~ own safe~ ~d he~th I re~ly have a probl~ pu~ng ~g close to ~at bluff. I looked at ~e bluff ~d I have been p~ of a s~dy done by ~e towm for ~os~on con~o~. ~d evm ~ou¢ it ~s bM~eaded below you have s&ndy so$i ~d ~ow you put Lhe bench ~ass in ~ere, but ~ose s~dy bIuffs have a tendency to wash out evem ~6~ the top ~d I would pre¢~ to see you~et back as f~ ~ possible ~om ~at bluff ~d 36' ~e absolute edge, I'd ]~ke to see you back ev~ ~5~. I ~d~st~d you do have probl~s wi~ ~e prope~ l~e, but I'd ]~e to see you ~ close to Lhe ROW ~ possible, ~y. CH~RWO~N: Mr. Or,do? MEMBER O~DO: No questions, you ~sw~ed my question ~n reg~ds to a footing or a fomdafion you ~e gong to put ~t on con,ere ~. DIC~RSON: Of co,se ~at d~ends on ~e b~l~g d~ent ffI c~ do ~at, but ~at's what I'd ~e to have. CHA~WO~N: ~. Goe~ng~? MEMBER GOEH~'GER: Mr. Dick~son as you ~ow we belong to tine s~e club in Ma~ck, it's called ~e MFD ~d I've d~scussed ~s wi~ you to a c~Mn de~ee both prior to ~d ~ the inspection. You had tom me that yo~ wife ~d yo~self sp~t ~ ,excess of $50K rehabb~ng ~e bluff. MR. DIC~RSON: W~ ~e insuIation of due b~ead ~_d ~e req~red mo~t ofs~d brought ~n ~om off sSte w~ ~e way the DEC required ~at we bring the s~d ~ off site and put down ~n 5ont of the of course pl~e the bea& ~ass ~d the platings there. MEMBER GOEHR~GER: Because o¢the beach ~ass replenis~ent ~d because of the fact that I*m s~e that you're going to continu~ly work on ~at blnffbecause you don't want ~t to ch~ge I c~ underst~d why you w~t to place ~t ~n the position ~at you w~t to place it in, unfo~nately only have one vote. Whatever the bo~d intends to do ~n reference to a m~n~mum setback ~om the top of the bluffwil~ be something thai we are going to deal with. Unfo~unately you have to move the house so whatever that manipulation is in reference to footage and whateve~ w~.y you have to n~anipulatc thc house is the w~[y we are going to end u:p with fellow board members. MR. DIC~RSON: Once the vote is t~en by the board here will they eve me the oppo~ni~ to come back with ~other pl~ locating the house in a d~fferent way Iike t~e madm &ai~an mentioned the L shape at the end ifI reverse that would I have to come back for ~other vmdance heating or how would that? CHAIRWOMAN: In other words, if something like that were a~-eeable to you, you do not have to come back. If you can get it back so tha~ it would be 36' from the top of the bluff, ~at's the v~ce that would be ~anted. No you would not have to come back. Let's see what happens. Page 71 of 128 Is there ~yone e~se in ~he au~ence who wo~d nk~ m spe~ zo~ ~ ~ga.s, Me al%¢l~aOo2~ ~ P~erence Wic~{s sue ~ ~m-g~ ~ ~rce] cf seDsc.{ ~o~d se. Tko setbas~ renefs~s'*' ~ ~ ' - she owls ~-~"~'> _2s only a couple of days ago because Fmrence Wso_¢s ~ .... -~- ~ Co~ whose son [ kmov/smd he% ~se ~sr_y e]d~j sial he~s also having ssrg~ se &~s si-m~,~ =as m~cn ....... y aoo~t aemz~mmen_ ~_ s~zc.~s ~nd tl!s she looks closer' f:esh, as you i~sow, l[mowalot ' '- - ~P~ ~ >~= ' the last ole I was on. [ don. i~ Ms~ W.~rs ~z la,~ xmr~j ~ ~p~ ..... o itc use cs nelgkborhood and perhaps you: concern ~s 2ke Nuff and thais ~ :'~- ~'~ .... ~ :- '~ :q ¢~ orox!mi.y t. our propexy, i thb2 we are tslkix abcuz ~_~a ...... w.a~ z ~=ru< would be apprcsHate at this i :-~'" ~ ~ -' ,..a ..... ac.:o.~ _s fha? perhaps you ~4 r--'~ ; - ~ - ' '-- ~ ........ ' -' constructed [n }lgh~ o~ vo~.r commsnts and ~n .ighz ~,¢ ~, ~ *~ ~ ~ *~-'~ ~-~"~ ~-om mere. That wE uk: - ~ CHAIRWOMAN: imf. Az-tgel 1 sc'redly agree ." ~- v ¢ ..... ,-'c t., ' q-~r, zs ap ~or a bmAmg enve_op~. ~ na~ smq be established - i --~o~-~ ~ ~,?.e~st¢_~.c: ms ': ouesimn' to you would be would .you'* client'nave an ob:oct!on *,o ~" :.os,'- on that so~,~,'*-' IL.~*¢ b~¢cause~ your client is dkecty south of that ~OW. corect? MR. ANGEL: I can sa she wouldn't have let s an oblec_.on. ~t tl~s~ way. i met wkh Mrs. Wicks yes rerdav ~ '' .... ' '~' ~'~ ~ ..... ~pph~atmL that ~ ~ . fi-om her lawyer wkich jus~ snowcd ~ne surve} a'm: was ~ry:n8 -' ,~ ..... her really that mcv~kg s.., ex.st~.g .~ous~ ._om i_~ co¢.sm,, zo ...... J: socma~ ilke a gcsc Page 72 o¢ 128 Januar~ 16, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing realized that I had to come here todaybecanse it wasn't as simple as the paper indicated. I don't know the answer to that question, I would have to speak to her. CHAIRWOMAN: How far is her house t~om the ROW? MR. ANGEL: ~'s of a mile. Her house is right dow~ on the road. That proparty is a 70 acre parcel that is being studied for development and other purposes by I believe the ?ecoulc Land Trust right now, isn't that correct John? CHAIRWOMAN: I appreciate your concerns, I couldn't agree with you more. What we are doing here is establishing a building envelope because as I mentioned to Mr. Dickerson if the house falls down, you're going to reconstruct it. I'm sure you didn't spend $200K to keep a little bungalow that could fall down. What you're looking for is a footprint. I think ttmt's clear, ~ think we are all clear on that. If you would like to re-submit a plan outlining your proposed house showing that 20' rear yard setback and a 36' setback to the top of the bluff, is that sorneth'mg you would consider? MR. ANGEL: lt's something we would consider, I just can't commit, it's not something, t met Mrs. Wicks yesterday for the first time, she's represented by a gendeinan named McBride who I'm doing a favor for who in fact had surgery this week. He's from Nassau Co~. I just can't commit her to anything. I think one of the things Mr. Dickerson should consider is when they deal with your particular concerns, they should consider the impact on the property that's close to th~n perhaps by landscaping or location of the house. I don't know, I don't want to, I don't know how to even judge that. CHAIRWOMAN: Landscaping for how many feet away? MR. ANGEL: I have no idea. I don't want to make a suggestion that would bind her at this point, ~'m just raising issues that I was able to identify yesterday. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Dickerson. MR. DICKERSON: I have one comment before I pursue the variance permit, more than a year ago, I wrote a letter to Mrs. \Vicks ot't'cril~g to buy 8/i0's of an acre fi'om orrr southwesterly portion of the lot all the way down to the south boundary of our west bound property line and I offered to pay her a fair price, whatever the appraisers would put it at, put for all the legal expenses and do whatever so it wouldn't cost her anything, and I never had the courtesy of a response to that letter because I felt then I would have enough property to move the house further back, but the present situation, I can't do that. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Can I just ask a question? Mr. Dickerson I just had a thought of looking at this. If you actually took that shed and moved that back farther and put that building a little kiddy comer in that troth area going back down further to the east and south, you could achieve the same situation without affecting Mr. Wicks family and working out a situation here. But again predicated on the fact that this is just a seasonal dwelling and you know some years Page 73 of 128 [ate~ yo~ may want ~o cringe or ~_e Wicks family mi~% ws~t to ~' yon s~meamg ~. ~ DIC~RSON; [ wo~d Hke to - ~ ~ "- ~',T ' ~antrm~n 36' ~om ~e top of m~ olu. ff, ~ to Lo.d a z0 on 'Stat south property kris, ~?:j cent we ~=emahve ~ans besaus~ once :~-e appr~v~ ~ ¢; = se~e~:~g, ~e don't w~t 10 ss~ yo~ i%~:e S years CH~WOM~: No, you're ge?t~cg k now, 6150 ~m yom%i come ~ac~ w~m some px~s. M~<e a mohe~ to ¢.djou~ ~_~ n~ng T~h~ Fez. 6uai 6:5( (recess) 2158 p~ Ap~[ No. 5236 - PETER & SONiA PU~AGOPO%~S. ~ ~-s ~s ~ .... ~ ~}u~.~ ...... ~o~fi ~ a V~ance under S~tm__ i ~0-239..A._~ casec on the Building~epa:"~m~.~ ~"-~s ~e,~ '~-.e'~ 3 ~. 20C2 Nc~m~ o_ ~s%op~ov¢l concenamg a isroposed aw~k._~g a. _~ss tn~c ~ Lot 122. ~asf- Mariom ~ arce~ ~ u-z- / 0. PETER PANAGO~ O~US. * ' Pebble Beach Fat~s in East Marion mx me$= 30-2-70. We are building a home and~,c~,s~: the suzweyor put me stakes dow:c we realized mat we were going re be ar the begi:m~n home west right adjus._ng :o our lot In other words we are going to be wa towm'ds the roae compIetely alI alone away from a line of homes '~o ou: wes~ and aisc on our .ease wh'ca we are g sma to bui!a ngnt back iuere which we nave ~ ,~ o: ..~ .r Lo~.~ o.u:~, bm.e gre so ua~ovc and ~te home on our west kas v¢indows and : ' ' .~- on their deck can view us because we ~'e going tc have a glass - -' '~ ~ - ~'~¢"'~ *-~ Page 74 of ,2~ Pag~ 75 Jsnuary 46, 2003 Southold Town Board of App6als Re§ulor Meeting P~bl~c Hearing us so e~ly ~d thee ~e times sometimes you get up at ~t, we hove smali c~l~ ~d ev~ o~seives, we ~e going to have to have const~t~y closed c~ or ~t as we~l bu~d a walk CH~WO~N: It's a n~ow lot, ~. P~agepolus, you ~e proposing a setbock of 7Y ~e to~ of~e bluff- ~. ~ANA~POLUS: Or we could go 85', I'm flexible ia oth~ words~ whot I w~t to do is ali~ even not exoctly, a little lo,ad so they c~ot see us re~ly. CHA~WOM~: You dofft w~t to be behind ev~body else. MR. PANAGOPOLUS: So ~ey c~ see us, it wo~d defeot the p~ose, ~ey c~ see you ev~ if they dofft w~t to, they jmt ~ ~o~d ~d see inside yo~ home, so if we c~ ~i~ M~ ~e o~er homes on ~e west. I md~stad 2 lots to o~ eas~ ~e next adjocent lot to o~ eat lot 123 is a vast lot w~ch ~e m~ who has lot ~24 om it - he ~s not gong to b~ld ~e, he bou~t it p~osely so no one else ~ hove my problem. At ~s po~t o~ st~es ~i~ M~ ~s home yes, but we have to t~e ~der consideration ~at at ~at point 2 lots owoy ~om o~ -west ~e bluff c~es inwad actually we ~e supposed to be f~ out so ¢_is way even ~ou~h by looks it looks ~at's not al~ed, but actually by bhffmeasm~ents it Mil be a line ~d ~so will be alined wi~ o~ west. ~o~er consid~ation I Eave sm~l c~l&~ like 6 yeas old, ~most 8 and ~most t0 ~d I re~ly dofft like even thou~ my wife l~es the ~ew of~e bluffI don~t like Sm~l childr~ I just hove a feel~g ~ pla~ng towads ~e blu~ I'd ra~ hove ~e house moved fo~d a li~e bit, more room to ploy on ~e road side, ~is way ~ey'll be a lot sorer. Now I do ~derst~d, yes I could put some ~ees there and block it off~ but I do reolize it wo~d be a ~eat injustice if I did thor because as ~he bluff c~es in ~e house on o~ west would not hove the view now we can see to our eost it's a pe~ect view of we hove our home moved fom-~d towed Rocky Point Road- MEMBER OLWA: Excuse me Mr. P~agopolus, but when you say fo~d, do you me~ the house closer to the road or the bluf~ MR. PANAGOGOLUS: Closer to the bluff. CHAIRWOMAN: Tium 75? MR. PANAGOPOLUS: No, t put 75' because ~ hove 110' d~t now where the st~es ~e, so believe between 80-85' Iql be oble to get close enou~ to ali~ with ~e homes, but ~ot exoctly, even if I'm 5' it's okoy becouse our side because if you look, you will not really be able to see inside o~ home. CHAIRWOMAN: The photos in the prope~y, the home to the west looks to be about 80' but that is with a deck addition, that's not to the home, it's wkh a deck addition. The home is set back considm'ably more. I think one of the ~ings we have to consider because we see it so ~equently is that what you're proposing is the house. At some point in ~e ~e you may consider a deck. Page 75 of 128 Seuthdd ~ c'~ Board of MR, PANAGOPC LUS: We haYe a deck, have ifs a 4 oz 5~ deck ss&e. my conce~ is ~e ~ewing w{{: ~ ; TM + +~* ' ' strai~at, ff2ey have to see. theyseetkews, tezabo~atWs '-~ ' ' "~ ~--~' "* ~'- ...... - ' ' 3ut/c~atwas ~. yess I m ~_e . CHAIRWOMAN: Let's see whm ha?pens. Mr. Goehffnger, any quesffons? MEMBER GOEHR~GER: No 85' s~em~= ~ to be a r~tve_y' ~ g~c~' ~ ...... e_ CHAIRWOMAN: Mr, Orlando. ~,~N_s~_R Ox_.AN~O. Nc ouesl'ons. CRAIRWOMAN: Ms. ONva. MzMB~R OLtVA. Yes t was up there and you dc have a be~:hful view ant i7_ ,~.w,-, ac n't because yom- neighbor to the east _s am~iiy t.~e way ,..c olu.~ c.~ ess ~_ is .... i~ s ...... ~her than you. sc ~ 5' seemed `~ ~'~ ,4 ;~e_ ~c~=y accentsa!e, MR. PANAGOP 0bUS: You nave mi flee recorc.s. 8>' wflI bring .,sc:os~.' ~'~¢: CHAIRWOMAN: From yom' issads su~ey it will bring you i O closer :o the roa<. MR. PANAGOPO~US: Iii ~-' =~ ' = cm~ woms. i O" _'m '~TSng m visualize- 128 Pa~ 77 Januar~ 15~ 2803 Southold ToWn Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing CHAIRWOMAN: 10' landward of what you have proposed on the survey. MR. ?ANAGO?OLIJS: So if you take from their deck- CHAIRWOMAN: From the survey you submitted to us. MR. ?ANAGOPOLUS: I'm trying to see how they can if they view us even. CHAIRWOMAN: you would be in line with the house to your immediate west. MR. ?ANAGOPOLUS: Since We have 1 t0' on the bIuffnow ffMr. Issac's brings it to correct CHAIRWOMAN: It's a question of'simply moving the house back 10' on the survey, that's ali. MR. ?ANAGO?OLUS: In other words, 85' you will consider? CHAIRWOMAN: Let's see what happens. Is there anyone else in tine audience who would like to speak for or against the application? I'i1 make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION 3:10 pm Appl. No. 5242 - GARY & LETIZIA BLOECKER. Request for a Variance under Section 100-244 based on the Building Department's September 30, 2002 Notice of Disapproval concerning proposed additions/alterations to the existing dwelling with a proposed front yard setback at less than 35', 1145 Gillette Drive, East Marion; 38-3-4. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? GARRETT STRANG, ARCH: Yes I believe you have it correct. Garret Strang for the applicant, representing thc Blocckers. We have as you can tell fi'om our application, we arc looking fbr front yard relief, we have existing relatively small single family one story home on a small lot that goes from Gillette Dr. it has 2 front yards. The house was built in the mid-70's at that time it was placed right at the 35' setback from Gillette Dr. which is the minimum. My clients are in need of making the house a little more in keeping xvith their family needs, larger so they need to add a master bedroom and bath since there's only one bath in the house now and they also want to put a 2~car garage since there's only a I-car garage and convert that one-car garage to two and to try to make the house look a little bit more in keeping what's going on in the neighborhood and this house is very 70ish they want an open front porch on to accomplish that as I said 'the house is built with a 35' setback we want to reduce that front yard to 30' to accommodate not only the open porch but also the forward par'~ of the garage because the master suite will be built behind the garage and if we were to be granted that relief we would still have Page 77 of 128 Page 78 doors f~cU~g ~e s~;reez, but the rest of h ~css ~e ~ont of tZe ~ouse is an open por~ a~d ~swer ~y q~zesfions you may ln¢:~e at ¢~is time, CHA~WO~%: 7m ioo~S at the site p~z and ~fs showfing 35 to fne ~o:% cYfae bay wh%low. [ assume ifs as%salty 37 to tko ~cuss. MR. ;Tf~NG: It's aber2 37 ¢o the house presenffy. ~t~al2 ~of~d addiffom Essentially what we sic going cc see is a T :'~ducffon ~ the i~oni ~ ~TP~XG: Th'is }~MBER GOEH~GER: Let me ask $ q'aestion, mad the porcln is MR. ~T~NG: %ac porcln is going to be 7' in depfi~ so we have - a :a~: of~iat is beca~;se of tko bay window and once you take out for ~ze r~ling ~nfi eva%fP~g you w~az 'go be ~ole to si: least walk past that bay window wig&out tavkcg ~5o squeeze pas_ :u CHAiRVIOMAN: Mr. O!ando? ME}~BER ORLANDO: No ¢u. esticns, it looms lo,cai for this Cr~AIRWO~N-: Ms. O2va? MEMBER OLWA: D~a you Iaok at t~e sCbacks of the off, er prose:n~es :n tZe nmghbozhood the same s~de ef tke street? MB. STRANG: On the sa~e sJEe c 7the stzsct, the house - we}} [ did the hcuses nex'~ door. The house i~ed:ateiy m our south, or as you face the house to tko zi~qt :_s se_ ~ack fa~her than tko 35" - that's pzcb~oly newer than cur house is smd immediately hex'- door is a brand new home vokic'z is just recently built and ~-hat moxs like ifs 35-38' set back from the [ didn't have a sm~ey, but just going by line off sight so the two houses on either side are set back s Hitie fresher than we are presa?ly. CHAIRWOMAN: Let's see what ns?pens, ls there anyone else Jn ~he audience who wculd like co speak fo: or against the ap:slication? Seeing no hatids. 7i! make a motion closing the resm~fng decision until later. Page 78 cf (28 pa~e 7~ jarmary 16, 2003 Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeti~ Public Hearir~§ }*LEASE SEE MINUTES FOR IR~ES©LUT~@N 3:15 pm App]. No. 5237 - VASSILLt[OS & MALrREEN S?ELEOTES. THs is a request for a variance under Section 100-244B, based on the Bu/~d/ng Department's August 7, 2002 Notice of Disapproval concenfing proposed deck additions with a proposed front setback at less than 40~ and proposed rear yard setback at tess than 50~, at t 15 Sound Drive, Greenport; ?arcel 33-4-60. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? VASSILLIOS S?ELEOTE8: I'm Vassillios Speteotes and the reason for this application is what I wanted to try to do we had a fire this past sprHg and wan.ted to basically rebuild the house and with the addition of my 4t~ cHld right before the fire and we needed some room added to the house and as you can see the property's l~ke almost a diamond shaped property and I have lkke 3 front setback conditions. What I was tryHg to acHeve is just squaring effthe front of the house the existing portion of the bedroom already is at 35~ setback from the road and what is was trying to do is square offthe house by adding a front deck there. CHAIRWOMAN: A 2-story deck on Sound Drive9. MR. S?ELEOTES: That's one part elk. On the rear I know there's a 50' setback condition however there's already areas of the house you can see that encroach upon that. What I was trying to do is possibly add a rear deck Ln and if permitted be able to bring it as far to the edge of the garage to also create a squared offeffect there. The one thaOs set 19~ back fi:om sunset. CHAIRWOMAN: It's Idnd of confusing because the survey did not match up w~th some of the figures on the notice of disapproval. It's possible the survey was done after the notice though. The deck addition, you have an existing setback of a rear yard setback of 37.2 correct? With the 28x12' deck that would bring ~t down to 30.3, is that correct? MR. S?ELEOTES: With the additions that I'm requesting my lot coverage would still be under the 20%. CHAIRWOMAN: Mi-. Gochtiagel. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I spent some time looking at the house. It was a major burn you had there. Sorry to hear that. I don't have any particular problem with your applicm~on, sir. CHAIRWO1Vr~AN: Mr. Orlando. MEMBER OREANDO: Just by reviewing this as you stated you're squaring o£~'sorne of the jobs ~n the house to acquire more room, The proposed deck is covered or open? MR. SPELEOTES: Covered. Page 79 of I28 Southo[d Town 8carff of Appeals. Reguk Mb,..S, US C ,:-=¢'.~ ..g* :na~ s ~e 2-stow. ~ MEMBER GLFfA: ~. SPELEOTBS: Yes. speak for or cgans. &e apN~caa~n. Seeing no h~ds. ' ~; ....... ~¢-~ z~ OR P~S~ .... ~N Bo~o adopted Nevemce~ 1 ,. 2~uz. Re ;est fo; ~t Waivers (a) ava,~ax~ "8~c,~ of dO,SO0+- sE fa ' - ' 1~w-8~-2-5.2. avacm% ,0~.'8-~-s% ~. reft-et to as ~000-89-2-3, ~d {c) m~ 5mprovsc lot w~t': ' %- ~ Neeco of D~sapp~ova:, ~o~d Sept~eer 25. 2002, tne propeSzes nave m~tged 100-25 due ~o co~_on ov~ersL~r wiff~ t~e ~rst'~'' ~ ~: Re ..... 5~.t~k. Cedar ~eack Psi{ Mas ~ot Nos. 25 27 ncc zS. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would ': ~ * ' family. As you indicated this is a reopenklg ora lea:ins we :~.r ~.pphc~non re ~-sc~m,.~e ~ 20. ~0~ ~,- ,' ' with ohr raticxale at m~t thee that these, my c:iexr has oald acne lot .,~ol lde(~ vod on both of Mese mis. ~c~uaEy c~n.~__g~n. ~.p~n ~s .... mnx.g necessa2~ wa:vet C=~AIRV¢OMAN: Mr. McLau~lin we had &scussea this was >ur f~elin~ that we would ' ' favo_abw cs ~_s aspl!ca~ion neighborhood by very na':~'e of the ccntract On iot 3 the contract 2C0O cubzc ye:as ~: _m unu~r ofsm~4~ ¢,~d a .......... x~v_sm.~s we ~,g.. 8o 07 !28 pag~ 81 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hsad~9 ~d o~ lot 3 is wetI~ds - ~ot developable. We could go ~e 9 routes ~d get exp~ testimony h~e. We don*t believe you have a suffic~t b~l~ng ~velope ~e. We c~ go ~e 9 y~ds on t}~s one. A I~ger ~ssue or equally ~ l~ge on ~s issue is hhe ~ots were all ~ co--an ~om at least 1958-i992. Ra~er ~m~ go ~e ~oc~mg ygds on it why we ~d reop~ ~e h~ng is some of ~e bo~d memb~ suggested a ~mprom~. ~d ~e compromise woMd be ~ 3 tots includ~g ~e wetl~d lot, ~at you ~eate 2 lots wMch woMd ~nvolve ~ea v~ce on a ~mor sub~s~on ~d the bogd feels this wo~d be f~ more p~a~ble, woMd help yo~ si~afion because of~e econo,cs involved w~ch you had stated pre~ouslyo ~e bo~d ~s not ms,panic to yo~ clients concerned, but ~e bo~d is v~ concmed about ~ea~ng a lot ~s cle~ly wet as a developMole lot. Even on ~e s~ey sub,Red wi~ ~e wefl~d lot it doesn't show a bu~id~ng ~velope, we nev~ got ~y proof in ~e record ~at a house eoOd be built on It doesn*t show ~ build~g of 18 or 1600 sq. R. w~ch ~e con~act of s~e ~s co~ngent upon. ~ere ~e a nmber ofROW*s ~ ~ose con~ac~ ~at ~1 ~volve ~ de~adation of what we believe ~s a ~ot ~at {s what we believe ~s ~o~mt~ly s~s{five~ If~e lots hgd not be~ m~ged for as tomy ye~s, perhaps {t would be d~fferent, but ~ fact ~om at 1e~t ~958-1992 ~t was ~ one tot ~der the law. MR. MCLAUGHL~: I don't believe that's co~ect. ~ose lots w~e deeded out s~gately ~d w~e deeded back into the appl~c~t ~d h~s deceas~ Mfe but ~at oMy took place f~rly recently. They had been s~ated. ~ ~y event, I'm a l~e con,sod ~ to what ~e compromise ~at may be berg propose. WoMd ~t not be possible for ~s bogd to g~t a w~v~ ofm~g~ as to ~e o~ lot. The one ~at you don't have a ~c~ty M~ ~ fg ~ ~e wefl~ds as opposed to gong back- CHA~WO~N: ~at's why we ~e reope~mg it, there's no~ng h~d ~d fast h~e. MR. MCLAUGHL~: You indicated some~ing about doing a lot I{ne ch~ge ~n a minor snbdi~sion as the other possibility would be to ~ant a waiver ofm~g~ as to ~e other lot- CHAIRWOMAN: Lot 5.2? MR. MCLAUGHL~: Yes from lot 5.2 to 5.1. CHAIRWOMAN: Tha~ ~s certainly ~u~othcr possibility on condition that lot 5.1 n~erge with lot Is everybody following me here? MEMBER ORLANDO: Yes, that's what we talked about exactly. CHAIRWOMAN: In other words, what we'd be doing is we would ~ant a waiver of merger on the comer inland non-water lot. On the large improved lot that's on condkion that lhe large improved lot would merge wi~h the wetland lot. Are xve on the same page? MEMBER GOEHR~GER: Let me just ask the sq. footage of the lot that's on the comer of Orchid. Page 81 of 128 M~. MCLAUGH~: 20,0CO s% ff. that yo~1'e excIudi~S is ~e lot S~at my c~ienl has been in cent-act wifn for' a ion~ t~ne azd kcs vAth ns. if h% a ~nor ]o~ [in~ cZmnge s-fbdf~[sios. ~mffs fine wkk us. Two lots, no building om ff;~ w~tl~d let con~zracu On that contrac': m-e yeti sugges{mg ?hose RO¥¢'s would oe nc: sex%lasSie? lot MS. P~iGAN: : n~.si you vow ~HAIRWOMAN. Do you wsmt to recess ~ um:l 3:4-5? Moticn to recess -"~*;' 3:z-5. 3:45 AKSC[N (CONT~ MR. }MC_AUGHLiN' ,. have had an oopor:uxi'.y re review rhs xonosa wkh my cNent and ~tcre lot whioln is 5.1 ~ .... ] ' :* "¢ L,~ wet ano. S t which is HA~R~OMAN. Vetl goed~ Sometimes thinss work out MR. MCLAUGHL~: Sometimes they do. ~ ~.:~ ' ' ' CHAIRWOMAN: ~ ha ,x yoh ho{}; for coming im ~0arc memoers nave nc o '~.&k~' : a ;-'.**c [ion dosh2H the hearing rosen'rog decision until la.er PLEASE SEE MNUTES FOR RESOLUTION , ~e 82 o: ~x.~ Page 83 janu~ 16; 2003 SouthO[d Town Board of Appeals Re§ular Meeting Public Hearing 3:2~ pm Appto No. 522@ - VINCENT & ?ETRA BENIC. This is a request for a Variance under Section 100-231, based on the Building DepartmenOs July 1, 2002 Notice of Disapproval concerning the height of a proposed fence which Mil exceed the code's height limitation of 1375 ?kie Nee~ Road, Southold; 70-5-39. -~- CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here Who would like to speak on behalf of the application? VINCENT BENIC: Good alSemoon, I'm Vincent Benic, I'm the owner of the property. I am requesting permission to build a 6' fence in my front yard. Just to set up the plot plan, my property is approximately 100' wide, it's 422~ long on one side and about 450' on the other side. My house is situated all the way to the rear of the property which is approximately 350~ away from the street. My neighbor, therefore the entire 350* is considered to be a front yard. Also in the b~ck I have a wetland situation where in reality my rear yard is o~y about 20-30L My neighbor to the IeR is his house is about 75~ from the road and his rear yard is abou~ 350* and what I'm requesting is to provide privacy as wei~ as to provide just some visual as some lawn equipment and things like that on the lawn. I'm requesting a 6' high stockade fence. CHAIRWOMAN: What is the length of the fence? MR. BENIC: About 180L If you could look at the survey that I submi~ed, it would go from the back of tI~e neighbors garage all the way to the 100~ wetland area. The reason for this is los been a very difficult situation the neighbor in the past year every time my kids or I go out everything is scrutiuized and at ~fffis point I have no choice but to put up the fence. CHAIRWOMAN: So it's a good will privacy. Ms. Oliva. MEMBER OLIVA: So the stockade fence is really running along this side of the property. MR. BENIC: That's correct. My neighbor has the fight to put up a 6' stockade fence on either side of the property and I wish to have the same right 6" or a 1' from his right. Basically it's something I think is absolutely necessary at this point. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Goehringer. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Although we haven't done too many fences recently sir the proverbial question is what side of the fence is going to be your side, the good or the bad7 MR. BENIC: Whatever you wish, it really doesn't matter to me. t can put the good side to the neighbor or my side. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: How long have you owned this property, sir? MR. BENIC: A little over a year, about 15 months. Page 83 of 128 ~'a~ 84 sid:? ~. ~N[~. O~ z cmn ~ut a f~ce that ~. BENIC: [ have pu:; }g~MB~R ORL~DO. CHAPJWOM~: is there anyone else m ~ue aud[~ce w~m we~la ~e ~o s~ze~ ~or or agah~st fi~Le application? Seem8 no nm~ds. later. 3:33 mm A~sL Ne. 523~ -NANCY R©SS & O ~ EmP~o ~ ms :s a :eques¢ ~or a V~iszce Se~on 109-24z-B, b~sed on {ko Bu{Mbg Depa~meni:s S~iemher 19. 2002 N Disa*zrovd concerning a crc¢osed new dwelling, after a~o~_.~, o_ me =~'~"~ ~'-~:.'--= '~ a :~en. ya.~. aaa ~e~._ y=_ds a'~ less than }5L less "-h-~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~-. ' - ' 5/[aittuc% s_~.~ya~s. L~an~=ofpropezny:335O(Tovonr~o~se~:i5 _a_~Aw_~,~. 123-8-22.2, o~A~RWOMAN, is someone here who would *:he to sneax on ~e~.._ ~: ~.e DIANE HEROLD. ARCH: Good~.,~._.oon~'*-' ~ ~mr" ~'Um,~e ~l:erol...~: ?:x the archkec wxh me is the NANCYROSS: HLFmNsncyRosssmdl ~ -~ ~ '~ ';'-x~ : ...... 'l- ow~ tm p~pe~ W w_~x ~._y s~s~, a_m oo~:~ o_ our husbal!ds. ~e hou~lt it 2 or 3 ye~'s ago ~om my ~: "' - ~; ~.=.' :, -m-~ se~n usmg the house ewry summ~ for 23 years, ifs a ye:l sma: ~ ~ s-.~-:; disrepair and it's on a ve~ cod y s_~pe~ o- !i has v~ smell setoec~s iSht now and what we Ere proposmg to do. what we h pc te do is keeo thc cx~st{tl~ lhotpr:_nt {n addition t ssusr:.x off in cet~am comers and raise i~ up scad add an add:ffoxa! story Oecads8 _fly SiSter h~s and I nave a family ann fight now we ace ve~ cro wuefi ~smg this house/~-~-~o ...... does ge~ ve~ extensive use during a small ~-~ c ~'~ -~" ....... -- 4 ....... yom'. Any questions? , ~ge84o :28 January 15~ 2003 $outhold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting PublJc Hearing CHAIRWOMAN: You've got a tough situation on this lot because of the- MS. HEROLD: ~Can I just present a few pieces of information that might answer some of your questions? '.:~ I also wanted to show you thatahere are other houses in that area that might jeopardize that. But I wanted you to be aware that this is the home currently inside the we are proposing the same kind ofreliefline that's fairly iow. This would be the same side- CHAIRWOMAN: The side view where you are proposing to square off the property, where you've got that 5' setback there because I know it's a tough piece o£property, but you are going to demolish the existing house, is there any way we could get the 5' setbacks on the property line? k is going to be a brand new house. I know you have a lot of difficulty ~Sth this because of the dirt road here. MS. ROSS: The dirt road is now the front yard and we've gone through a lot on another case determining that Bungalow Lane is not the road anymore the battle road is now I think if we are granted our other variances we would be more than happy to make that deck parallel. CHAIRWOMAN: Which would get us how far off that property line? MS. HEROLD: I would be willing to keep the existing setback to the house and we would continue that for the deck. CHAIRWOMAN: Minimum of 7.d? MS. HEROLD: I believe so, yes. CHAIRWOMAN: Does that sound workable to the board? MEMBER ORLANDO: Are you thir~king pivoting the whole house to run parallel? MS. HEROLD: No, Fm just going to cut an angle into the deck. I don't want to move the house because light now the neighbors the one Imuse to the west is actually over into our property line and the other house belongs to Nancy's brother so we don't want to antagonize him. So we thought the best thing to do is keep the house right wh~re it is. MEMBER ORLANDO: He has the wooden deck to his house, the wooden walkway? MS. HEROLD: Actually we don't have beach access so we have granted as long as the family keeps the property they have access over that walkway to the beach. Once they sell it to another family that access would be denied. That's the purpose of that wood walkway, for the Ross' to cross over other Ross' property to the beach. MEMBER ORLANDO: So it's a ROW as long as the family owns the property. Page 85 of 128 2ItALEWONr_AN: ~Es. Olive MEMBER OLFv-A: I was down t,h~:% you do have ~ ~ ~ '-~:' ' ...... no~ spe&Tng abo~.t ~h~ l¢~F~ % ..... -. s{~ndooflt,~ _ there is nc doubt .:n my. ..... mind wSat you. ~m do:ne_ o-;s pre,al nee; ~%0 el so"~so 7m ]us'; wmming you ins2 whatever you can aa to ~een :t away -~ ..... " ' ' ' for your b~**efi,. q ~ Decease ~f M~. HEROLD it's k-iteresting you bing t!at up' '~ ;'- '~ ~ "''~ '~ :" ' submfited I believe it was yest~:da] ' oF the day before my sal:_'~ar/sysmm ~s going 'cc se going righta, ongs~detha roadanolmgoma.m~o ~ -~-,- -,, ;,+. - ~:~ ....... - half out of thc g~ound to retain the sans ':c get thc disiance going lo happen but i don't have. MEMBmR GOnxR~GmR. Go as mw as MS. HERCLD: l'm ~:ng ........... : .................. s.~s s ......we gave you. _Lo ~ am the scrod o, neaXh on ~h~ sani.a~ sys'~em. ~' * working withl-~ ~ ~ ' I ~: ~' ~: ~m CvL_~mycestbut also sometJaina where fire sanlmrv loss x he a ' ' con~bm~ingtou:s~. Weds haveaa~tus .... Wcarecynlgtoli%plove. pz 1,~ , ~. ~ ~n ' ~ ..... ~ ~0 ..... rove ~hei~ou_se. Once ~-- ] ~ P~x- ~ ~ ~ v~-- samm~ system ~6 w~ d~J~e[y have '- : ..... -- -- y~ ~. co ..... s .~o cs~. have to go back to all tko different x ---~¢ - ,~ ..... ::~ :. Page 88 of~28 Pa~ 87 January ~ ~'i 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MEMBER GOEHRiNGER: Just romember th/s may not effect your house, but in general if through a 280A situation we request evcn-y property owner on that road to raise that grade up a foot and a half which may occur because the road is subject to flood/ng. MS. HEROLD: T'~t would be fine because it would not bm problem vdth our sanitary. MEMBER GOEGRJ[NGER: Try and keep it as low as possible because what's going to happen is that wall is going to dictate what type of nurturing is gokng to be done to that road. MS. HEROLD: That's why I'm br/nfng it up since you mentioned it. I wasn't aware that they were tJth,~dng of w/de~ng that road. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I'm telling you that fight now we could go to the bulldbxg department and tell you you need 280A because the road is marcnal. And that's the situation it has to be elevated because the sand blows ~n there in the wintertime and actually covers the road. MS. HEROLD: t ordy get to go down there in the wthtertime. Does the board have any other questiuns in light of that? CHAIRWOMAN: No, let's see what happens. Is there anyone else in the audience who would Iike to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserv/ng dec%iun until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION ***** 3:47 pm WILLIAM LOIS. AppI. No. 5258 as to 58105 North Road, Greenport, referred to as Parcel 44-2-9, and AppI. No. 5257 as to 57875 North Road, Greenport referred to as Parcel 44-2- 8. Variances are requested under Section 100-231, based on the Building Department's October 28, 2002 Notices of Disapproval concerning fences proposed w~th a height over the code limited 4' when located along a front yard. CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? MS PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ: iDr. Lois owns the house parcel and the adjacent vacant lot. He wishes to place a fence along N. Road that is a scallop type fence. I gave you a diagram of it which means the center of the scallop fence is 4'6" and the posts are 5'. On the side yard similar d' fence would go along the length of the side- CHAIRWOMAN: Of the improved lot or both the improved and the vacant lot? MS. MOORE: Both lots. Page 87 of 128 Pa~ 88 Sanua~y '~ Cl~-~OMA~: la ~t goSng So r~ con-~m~ern[y as ese piece? MS. MO0~: Yes. there might be a bre~< thee a gate or whatever, b% yes. [ believe ihs va~ p~ce~ is 20036 ~nd t?:e 5:re?loved p~ca55s lO0.18~ ~S. MO0~: Co.eot, you cart go ~ong the back because ofveetlmad issues aaa sef~acks~ issues 5sa* we dea[{ w~th here se front ym~& hei~% of the !es_ce mod extending the 6~ ulc cc v/hers ihs ~ont yard fence }e~lns becsase thole is no sbsc~ure there a: tOP. eOt. MEMBER GOEHRIGBR: Looking at the fence spsd~cat!oms, iffs good on both aries so we don't leave that issue and ifs strai~Tt on both s~des and scalloped :n the sT'crt is that MS. MOORE: Yes. les a side sbai~%, with some a:chitec~osl de:ail. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Ofiandc. MEMBER ORLANDO: Nc I was just looking st ~hat myse:fUecsuse ! ffsou~ht you smd MS. MOORE: i did. I apologize. [ remembered scaliop~ out then ! see i gave you the which was the seusred on the sides MEMBER ORLANDO And thafs a 5~ fonts. MS. MQORR: Yes MBMBER OREANDO: No offcer questions. CHAIRWOMAN: Ms. OEva. Page 88 of I28 Page ~9; J~nuary 18, 2003 $outhold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MEMBER OLIVA: 'No questions. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the and~ence who would I~ke to speak for or aga/nst the application? Se~g no hands, Ill make a motion closing~e hear~g reserv~g decision until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION 3:51 pm AppL 5265 - NORTIB FORK BANK/SIlFF CTY DEVELO?MENT AGENCY. Ttds is a request for a Variance under Section t00-103C based on the October 22, 2002 Notice of Disapprova~ to constract additions and alterations to an exisffng nonconformSug bulld3ng. The proposed total l~near frontage followkng the proposed construction will be 3d04-- l'mear feet, and the code lb~aits the frontage of a s~ngle structure to not more than d0 1/mear feet of frontage on one (1) street. Locatiun of Property: 8885 Main Road, Matfituck, Parcel 122-d-22.1 CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would l~ke to speak on behalf of t~he application? JOSEPH FISHETTI, P.E: Good affemoork Miss Chairman, my name is Joseph Fishetfi, ~'m the engineer for North Fork Bank. The bank has made a commitment to stay in Southold in their Operations Center and as you know North Fork is grow/ng, requ'nSng the addition which was presented to the Planning Board recently at a public hearing. The existing ba~: building is over the dO' reqoSred size. I t;hSr~k t_he Notice of Disapproval you got an amendment to that notice. It seems the bu'flding department didn't take into account the loading dock on the fight side and the tota~ size of the building. So the building fight now is going to add around 34' which wilt take the total building size as 388'4". We had a public heating with the Planning Board and we're in the process of going to ~nat next month and we are looking for approva~ on the building with yon. CHAIRWOMAN: The depth of that building 123, the new addition? MR. FISHETTI: It's t 20' depth by 60'. It's 64' because we need the other 4' for shoring of the existing building that was a little discrepancy in the plau that I originally submitted to you. CHAIRWOMAN: It's showing 124. MR. FISHETTI: That's the 120 + 4' addition. CHAIRWOMAN: The only other question I really had is on the ZBA, this is probably an error, but let's make sore it isn't. On the ZBA application it said a total of 3 floors. MR. FISHETTI: It's a basement plus 2 floors. CHAIRWOMAN: It is still a 2 story addition? Page 89 of 128 sM?,.. FISHETTi Yea if: shouM have said 20,000 sc. ff. on S fioors~ bt-/z fa. at includes a MEMBER GOEH~GE~: Yea're $~!y ~g o~ isa 5¢rX~ng leafs p¢~r~ mu~h ff~at v~co]e ~ass ~MBBR ORLANDO: No mm'e ii~fic tables? Mt. FISHETTi: We mrs 5ufiding ~e~d fire piffle M~M~ER GOEH~GER: i delft ~OW eila~ you ~e we~xhng ~22s fine Pluming 3e~d wki~ pl~ing bo~d tmeefixg [ too~ e~ aside outside, we st~ked o~c ~my espn& desi~ which actually came up to e~ propes~ line ~ld we really, I realiy was pressed 5r doing dssi~s ~cd i didn't go o~: Core mad ~ook [n the COX%~ SO w~er_ we st&ted !S out we regized we v/ere rea'iF ff~zt not ~d ire p~king we changed from ?~endic~i~' p~ng 'co 2~aiial v/}icl~ {s exact,.y wharfs ffic~ze now. We ~W to woti~ ~:ai o:~t will: the nei~kfaors and Cra': was sar: oft!~e Piarmi~cg Board% requirements, screen planting along thai west side. CHAIRWOMAN: You*va had mi initial hes~ffng cra public !eaing wiPt tire Planning Bcardl MR. FISHBTTi: i had a public heating. Rfghi new Clay ~e waiting fcr yon ts approval, and that's all we need is your approval on the building with as ycu kxcw llais was cone for simp snoupmg comers This was the :~riginal Bohack in thc isle ~0~s. i opes back. sc this meticulously kep~ as you know and they should be ha~py the bank :s mere instead of the Sohack. CHA!~f¥OMA~: So the screening on tlne west side will be addressed by the PP~srlna Board? M~. FISHETTi: Yes. t have a sYsm(ssion to them 5' ~sorv!tae. 4' on center staggered, so gemS ~o be a nice planting buffer ChAiRWOMAN: Mr. Orlando. MEMBER ORLANDO: Tiebartis cmstinuouslyma:mtained? Page go cf ¢28 Page 91 JarmA~ '~6, 2003 $outhold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MR. FISHETTI: The bank is always maintained. We just had a neighbor on the east side she eouldn't wa4t she has a~problem w~th the scree~ plantings that were planted when the bartk first came there and they've gotten a lit'de bit high and she was complaining about k and Mr. Butkov~ch is fight herd~V? and he~s gothg to take care of~t. The bank meticulously mainta~s the building. MEMBER ORLANDO: I just wanted to clear up one thing so I'm sure. The survey staldng the northwest corner that*s almost in that lady's front door that says proposed- MR. FISHETTI: That was the old stake the new one now is 17' to the west of that which pretty much the exist/ng asphalt. MEMBER ORLANDO: And that's where the screening is going to go, or the screening is going to go where the old stake was. MR. FISHETTI: there, so w]mt I staked out on that comer was the property line. Now we are 17' in. It's existing, we're not changing anything. MEMBER ORLANDO: I actually had to go took, I was t/ke w]tat is that stake doing over there? MR. FISHETTI: And ~ dSdn~t look at it, in essence, we were doing the designs for the building- MEMBER ORLANDO: So the property line for t~he bank actually must have a ROW for the road. MR. FISHETTI: Yes it's an existing ROW for them to go over the road. As you see hhey go over our property. They have a ROW. MEMBER ORLANDO: And how far will this screening go up to? MR. FISHETTI: It's only going to go up to adjacent to the 2-story it's not going to continue down to where it is. MEMBER ORLANDO: About the telephone pole, about that depth in. is that co~ect? CHAIRWOMAN: Ms. Oliva. MEMBER OL1VA: Does the Planning Board have any other concerns because the building is so wide and we have in the code and you have 100' wide. MR. FISHETTI: No the Planning Board has no problem with the building. Page 91 of 128 3:58 pm AppL Nco 5225 - ROBERT 6~ CEL~ 8W~G. (Ca. over ~cm Decemh~ 12~ 2002} Fnfs is a toques; for a Va~se t~_de: Section ~ 00-244B, based on tho Build{ag Au~st 22~ 2002 Noffce of Disapprove] soncamfng tiao noz~sonfo~_~g sefoack iccaffon of:~as 5~ilf~ ~ditiens ~ld a[t~aiions a~ less ~lmn 18~ on a s~ge side y~d and lass thgm tie requiremerrc of 25~ for the total side y~ds, Locaffon of Property: 445 isi~cd V!~g Cceenpe~% 57-2-21~ CHA~WOM~: Is someone here ~no wo'Jd i~ke to spe~¢ on 5isif of the ROBERT S~G: Good afi~con. Fro Robm~ Sw~ng Lsd a!on8 v, dth Celia we svm the property o~44d Isled View load, we've ownsd it for Z2 ye~s, ~ne building was consa~cted 1952~ pzesenfiy we have a pre-ex!stag nencenfe~in~ side Fmrd thai was iss2e wlc6n pm'chased <&e prope~. To i~s t s~/: we talked to soma of o'~ nsi~(sors reg~ding vv~a ws:d tike to do ~d weYe tad no o~ actions to it ~n~ze have 5e~a v~ismces ~'~zaed in cur axes for yew simfi~ siYsations. ?m ]a~'e with Fr~-~ Nola-o w~:o is o:~ CHAIRWOMAN: ! ~i/~< some of the confmsion came in last time because the notice disapproval -~ich we all tied to match fine notice of diss(skrCVal from tlcs %uiidh wilh what we are seeing mod we said 9is doesnk match. You've got mc amenfied hofius disapproval it makes it a lot clearer sad also the plans m~e muck clearer on what we are 2reposing tc do t~ow ifs basically a ccmriere renovatisn wkn a second sicsl welt! would maintah ins existing side yard setback of 6~5 on the wes]: ~nd i h_ on the east is float corest2 MR. SW~G: i believe ii ts. yes. Ci¥AiRWOXAN: i think we have a much cloBBer idea than whex we tried ~o look s' this besots. MEMBER OLiVA: N¢. CHAIRWOMAN: Member Orlando. M~N/BER ORLg~r30: No ouesffons. CHAIRWOMAN: Member M2MBER GOEHR~GER: ~ had ne questions be~are. Pa~e 92 of<28 January 16, 2~03 South01d Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearin§ CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak for or against the application? Seeing no hands, I'1t make a motion closing the hearing reservimg decision until later. PLEASE SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLU~ION 4ff)2 pm Appl. No. 5252 - ?ATRICIA & JOEL PERLMUTtt. Tiffs is a request for a Variance under Section 244, based on the Building Department's October 9, 2002 Notice of Disapproval concerning a proposed front addition at less than 35' from the front tot line at it's closest point° Location of property: 420 M'dl Creek Drive, Southold t35-3-45~ CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here who would like to speak on behalf of the application? JOEL PERLMUTH: Good afternoon. We are looking for your approval to build an antranceway deck stoop as they used to say in the Bronx based on a 5x6x9' new construction. As you can see by the documentation submitted by our archkect that you have in ~unt of you wNch lays out the fTcont view close up elevation with the staked stoop. CHAIRWOMAN: The only question I had here and it is somewhat confalsing - this is for the 4x8 stoop in the front? MR° PERLMU27-I: Correct. CHAIRWOMAN: The plans note a 33' setback it says in the notice of disapprovaI, but I know you already have a building permit for certain additions. MR. PERLMUTH: That is correct but the permit as well as you can see by the plan itself by the garage, which is to the fight of the stoop that is proposed, existing is setback not as far as the proposed stoop. CHAIRWOMAN: The confusion is the disapproval says you have an open building permit for additions with a front yard setback of 37' where is that where are those additior~s? MR. PERLMUTH: There is no additions to the house as composed. There's nothing we are adding to the house except for the front stoop and we built a rear deck. I don't understand, we are not building another garage. We are not bui]ding a new wing, etc. I think you can - the survey document which you also have based on the footprint of the house is the exact existing footprint. We are adding nothing except a new back deck and the front stoop as we are asking for the plan. i don't know what that confusion is. CHAIRWOMAN: I don't either, i understands, it's just probably an error, and it's probably just a stoop. Mr. Goehringer. MEMBER GOEHRtNGER: Where are you getting this 33' setback? Page 93 of 128 CHAERPZO~N: ~s. MEMBER GOEHR~GER: Ijust need a ~ootaSe on the record - ~nat tie dlstazcs is for fins new notch ~o the proper:y line, MR. PERB~JTH: Yes CHAIRWOMAN: Let's see wi~at heppe~as. 2s there ~lyone e~se fin tile sJ. diexcs who welled speak for er asainst the spp!icetion? See:mS no haxds. 12! leaks a motion closins the rese~'mg decisiox until PLEASE SEEM~NUIESPORRFSOi iX)N ~-~ers This ~s a reques~ for a valance under Section 244B_ based o:: the BaMd~ng De :artmenes October 9_ 2002 Notice ofDisa2prov:i conc~2ing a l ropose~ new dwelling witz a ffonl vs:d setback ar less than 40'. LocsXion of pro7 ~:ty 1680 Bngan :ne Drive. Southold ?: .... 25 CHAIRWOMAN: Is someone here wee would llke re sneak on be!aalf of the elsp!i xffonl Page g4 o'~ '{ 28 P~ge §5 January t8, 2003 $outhold;Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing GARY GERNS: Pm Gary Gems what I'm Iooldng for is front yard relief on th~s property. ~'m look~g for like 25' front yard. CHAIRWOMAN: ~'m fMrly familiar vfith the property, ls this a brand new house? MR. GERNS: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: Have the Trustees rex4ewed th~s proposal? MR. GERNS: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: And you have a Trustee permit for? MR. GERNS: I can g~ve you a copy or,t- CHAIRWOMAN: l~m not sure if'we have a copy of it, just a moment. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: ~[ think we called and we asked for it. MEMBER ORLANDO: W-hat did they g/ye you relief fur? MR. GERNS: For the rear yard setback. MEMBER ORLANDO: From the wetlands to the house - that's their jurisdiction. CHAIRWOMAN: 50' buffer zone. This is merely a copy of the survey, it's not a copy of the Trustee approval. It's possible, we've been very busy, I'm sorry. I guess the question I have is it's very hard to tel1 without the edge of the wetlands is why can't you move this back to a more conforming location - it's a brand new house? MR. GERNS: I can't go back any further the DEC wants me to put a fence up at 50' they aren't giving any relief at all, or the Trustees. So I real~y can't go back any further. In fact the DEC wants me to put a chain link fence up. CHAIRWOMAN: It's very hard to te!t because we do not have an3~hing showing what the Trustees approved or did not approve. That 25' setback that you are requesting to Brigantine Drive, is that including t~his proposed covered porch? MR. GERNS: That's to the porch. CHAIRWOMAN: It's to the porch or to the house? MR. GERNS: 25 to the porch, 30 to the house. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: So it's a 5' porch? Page 95 of 128 Southdd 7own Seard of Appeals ~eguJar Meeting ?ubI!s Hen;lng }~. GBRNS: BO~V~ SECRETAP~ KO~ISOSE: I ffi~ wi%at was ~epefi tiff tko eee~~ day was a quesfierma~e that was ~ssia~ from your sub~ssisn also you gave a copy of a hap witl% ~e T~stees Isen~t is usu~ly 3-4- [sages ~fs di6n~t get ~ce ~r] on t}~e phone s~d sl~e v~a?ed fca su~-ey i~ai was ss~mped - BO~PO SEC?~T~J~ XO!~ALSi~: ~¢e need fao v~ncla t~ii[ the bend mmmbers gals rea~l]' look a~ fiis and all !s/{e coates before BOA~ SECP~T~Y KOV/ASSF~: You have re ~v8 es 7 copies 0~:2 iolclersv/, v/e~i[ ME.ER GOEH~GER: XWe/i tlse pages associated wiffn ~_e BOA~ SEC~TARY XOVVALSE: The conditions mad the map and rise MEMBER ORLANDO: If this meeting :s adjourned, ycu may wax. to ih!ih s/scut a new hcuss nlan because the average setback in that nei~nbolaccd is ~oout 3~i so you are well ~nead ~ fall yo~ neithers and this is a brmsd new building so you have ~!e opisoPank/, you know secause you are not buiid~ng it -%z ycm~se!f to live there, you are spscnit!n8 or you are Esr someone, s( now% the chance to be creative. Othet~vise you a~-e ve~ dose ant yc us'e conformin~ to the rest oCg~e :te;gaborh ~d. CHAIRYVOMAN: Ruth MEMBER OLIVA: [ a~ee wifh Mr. Orlando. CHAiRVTOMAN: N4E~ BER QOEIfR[NGER: A kouseis ?8' w(dexias the ~ oorch wh~c'- puts :t at 33. [ thinx w~tk some mantpumung on fi~e rear of thc house you :nay still se able Lo hckt the - by tko width of the house, the depth o~ the ~ouse down a little bit and giving a Pttc more se'coach. thi:i¢ you may be aisle Lo ~ain a co'dole lr~ere feet sid we would appredase i-° you would co that. Page 95 cf 128 Pa~ 97 January 18, 2005 Southeld Town Board of Appeals Re§ular Meetiag Public Hearing M~ O~DO: ~Caus~ you ~ b~d~ a ~ s~bst~d~ ~o~s~ so c~os~ to ~ s~e~t~ ~t's go~ng to be ove~he~ng. ~. GE~S: IfI took ~e porch off~e house that would m~e ~t 30: MS. OL~A: I ~ we sfitl wo~d pref~ to see ~t back more. You ~e still go~[ng to be out of Hne ~h the o~ houses w~ch ~e f~dy well set back. MR. GE~NS: ~I] be 5' ~ut of ~ne w$~ ~e house next door. MS. OLWA: ~fyou co~d skew ~t a l~tfle more, you have it ffmectly a~oss, just ~ it a b~t ~d reduce it s]~dy. MR. GE~S: tf~ t~e ~e porch off, I'm redu~ng it 5'. CH~WO~: ~at we ~e sa~ng is we're not ~cl~ed ~o look at ~s favorable so please come up w~ a pi~ to reduce ~e ~on/y~d setback ~at will be more ~ ke~g with setbacks in the ~ea. ~e prope~y h~ hmimfions, h~wev~ it*s, you ~.ow ~at when you p~ch~ed it. We ~e going to adjourn ~s being ~fil 7:10 pm on Febm~ 6~. Before we do that I wo~d like to ~k ~f ~yone in ~e audience would I~e to spe~ ei~er ~ favor ar ag~nst ~e app]icafiom B~L ~LLY: Bill Kelly, I w~d be ~e nei~bor to the no~ of~e prope~ whch I believe is lot 57 ~d my concerns were the issues ~at you've ad&essed. I just w~t ~o go on ~e r~ord as sa~ng ~a~ I took ~e lib~ of plotting out a house on ~at prope~ ~hat wo~d confo~ Mth ~e paperers that were ~ven by ~e Trustees as well ~ ~qe p~amet~s that ae s*~ fo~ in ~e zoning code ~d you ~.ow in ref~ence to ~e porch issue, beyond the ~ont y~d - the code clearly reads ~at you would be required to ~t them a 35' ~ont y~d setback in lieu of/he 40' setback ~d the code Mso reads ~d I'm s~e you're aware of it/hat as f~ as ~e porch goes, ~ey would be allowed a 6x8' porch that goes beyond the 35' setback. Beyond that, the 35' has been set. ~r house which is adjacent to it ~d we had to deal with the s~e issues ~at they have, and we m~aged to make it confo~ to ihe town code as well as the Trustee code as well as the DEC code. So it would be impoaant to me that the same parameters that we had to deal with would be the same parameters that they had to work with. Indeed you can clearly build a 1250 sq. IL, 1400 sq. fr. ixouse which bas ~ 2-story x~ ou[d be 2800 sq. 2. - so that could be built on the propeay within the parmneters that are set by the code. MEMBER GOEHR~GER: Didn't we have a variance on your application? MR. KELLY: Yes. MEMBER GOEHR~GER: What was your setback? MR. ~LLY: 35'. CHARWOMAN: ~e code is 40 in the ~ea? Page 97 of 128 MR. ;nELLY: Tlse code fo~ a m~ less than 4©,0~@ ~ 2~,¢00 s=. :~ rs ~e~ ~ 40~ b ....... proxy muck wkho~t quesfior4 35' would be Jiowe& ~m~ng beyond 35'; would opp~a m. ~w oink 2 2ouses or~ C~ sb~e. ~2d _w m~der.~aHy bo~2 houses tL~ ~ ~ ~ ~d t~ o~M za~_ less fii~ 35L CH~RWO~: Trim%< you vewmuck. Is ~ere ~_e Trustees as we~ as ~se DEC ~ rea~zs 5at ici 57, wefi~ds. [ts no~ a pns~me ~-~d~_~s ~.t ~L It's a sw~m be[ie~e in 58~ should be ma{rEc~ned ~1o~ Lid& ' -- wJl coL_e bec_< {o ~.s vzf! a ~,~v~s~c ~a~ CHAIR WOMAN. Anyone else? Okay you -: copies oftNe Txs~ee approval. You wm be back to us on m~_~n. A1 ma~ ~ mot .... a~nm~ *he heath Reqdos~ 9:23 p.m. AppL Nc. 49,4 - BREEZY SOUND SP2ORES. Continued Keaing Special ~ ~' ' ~' --,. _,¢n~,.ss~o.~ -o xxcep ion t.pcer Secdon 100-60B for '~ this Ressn-Residcxtial RR; Zone DiSrict Locahou of Proper:y: North Side of C.R. NoXhRoad 0cplsostte Sax S:~_:ec._N~_.~__~ ......... PATRICiA MOORE. ESQ: >-' g g i'm ......... :s - s ~e¢.S. second t~me around and ~or some of you, lez~ s'r - pooabl fl~en h ..~ea. ou d.:_~ nes~x.~x~e.~i.. VJearcatgso;'-fwqe:ewe mep bacx. in the [lille s:nce our last heanng, we have actuah) settled ann actually have water sei%~xent - ~ '~ ~'~ --~ :* - The special permit as ....... ';'- ~' .......... ': x_e condhic~s &at this '" '~ m-' pez~it maintains is tie mi'tkr, um ~-* ~ ~z~ ~s we i:~v~ 128 Page 99, January 16, 2003 $outhold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing the number of guest units is based on the water and the sewer. We have water, sewer, we have a choice at t~s time. We have a ietter, actually it came in very late. We have been negotiating with the v~lIage, they've been negotiating for years, I came on and was dealing w/th Mr. Kron and Be had promised me a lette~.or something e¼dencing that it was being resolved, that the l~tigafion dealing wSth the sewer Because they had g~ven, Mr. Tedaldi hadmctual[y pMd into connection to sewer paid into the water and nobody was g~ving t,2rn any credits for those payments and that ted to litigation wBSch ultimately has been settled. The water w~ll credit Mm a certain amount for what he's pa~d in the past, sewer doesn't credit, I'm sorry, not at ali and they are charg/ng 11 thousand per unSt. Cfivan that it's almost with const~action every~ng, it's about i mdilion dollars just to connect to Greenport sewer. We are considering alternatives whSch is the c~:omoCass system and it's a commu~ty system considered by the health department the equivalent of the sewer counecfion. But for the record, I have sewer availability as well so that you can have both assured tl~s project is subject to health department approval. One of the - we wSll connect to one or the other, althar the Greenport sewer system or a self-conta~ned systam that is approved by the health department. Both meet the criteria of the conditions for the special perrrfit. The t~rd cond/tion is no music, entertMnment, loudspeaker systems. T~ere is no enterta'mment here on tBSs property. It is a resort motel with a pool. That's it. We can certainly live by that type of condition. The C/ual criteria is that the un/t shall be d00 sq. fr. to remind you he's got a building permit w~th the exact smme plan in 1989 the building department reviewed it. The town agencies reviewed it; It meets the d00 sq. fr. criteria. We are us/rig the same desig~ scheme - it meets the 600 sq. fr. crkefia. Ttds was an issue that was resolved and addressed t~ough the SEQRA process because as you recall the ?iann~ng Board is the lead agency. The ?laun~ng Board through CbSc VoorBSs had us do a supplemental environmental review addressing concerns from the past as well as any new concerns. The Planning Board reviewed the site plan k~ iCs ~Snal foz~rn and what remains in that approval process is this board's special permit w~th kStchenettes. You are the last piece of the puzzle before the Planning Board can act on the site plan. Let me give you the 2 letters for your records. The sewer letter is not signed because the Village of Greenport sent me a stipulation a contract that says you pay 750,000, we'll send you rids letter. I said we're not paying you anything until you know we have all our approvals at the minimum. I've used the letter as an example that we have the ability to settle. We will have sewer as a back up to the Health Department. CHArRWOMAN: One of the things we have left off. it seems like a mop, th ago. ¥o~ were going to give us ~ flyer flon~ the - MS. MOORE: We sent that, you don't have it? That was sent within a week after your request. I don't know that I brought it with me because it's already in your file. It was from the Hermitage and I actually sent you the brochure with a letter of description and the Hermitage shows units with ¢nll kitchens, dining rooms, it's a much larger facility, but maintained in the same way that this facility will be maintained. MEMBER ORLANDO: Was it a tri~fold? MS. MOORE: Yes, as I recall it was a td-fold. Page 99 of 128 Southdd Town Board of AppeaJs -^ ' ' Mseiing s ,.:~y ~¢~e~ sa~ 'mol we -~ :l~ cover~% cr ws acmally w~ resae~, so squ~e footage i naa sent that ~o ycu~ ~w~_ ~ .~s ....... ._~. sar_e e:xer. e SHA~WOM~N: So the pi~{ ones are essertially two bedrooms 14xi4 six l{~ng :coma 2 baths ~d ~c o-~es MS. MOORm R:~zt, ifs preny condensed ..... ~ ~e~_ _rage ~ o~_,~w wne~ ..... y znd the - m~ge ~e~c ...... dmL.g room. living area, ~.os~ t~ 75~-8v .... ~ are a~s ...........y ~N TzDA~D,: Ken Teda!Ci, L ~ p~obab.y .............. s~. ~. 55~-575.' ': - ' -- ' - ~' .... ¢ ~ imm( ~fyo~ look on tko so'scm you w:** see ~ -- '-' '~ ~' ' ~ con':er un/ts but tko a!] ~d~e u~a~_ 6uv. C'ii.~ RXVOBiAN sbc"t", x VOL t.'C --", N ~i.C:' C Ot;'UiS .tVS .... will be seld- MS. MOORE: Co~sct. CHAIRWOMAN: ~' ' ~'¢ - n~ey are gong 're be sclc ,or people ro use on a seasona'_ baszs. go,ns ~o be suNeted! MS. ~[OOR~: Ifs aD IiiVeSli~IOIi~ sropcrry that cte O0rSeX ?.S i ~**~,~> ~.~%. hie be you buy this ack. you have a n~s~ jus. like anyone else to '-~.s~ ~ ;,..R-* ,;..~_ ss/~ v¢~xs-o¢' max:mst_' i as a second home, they ouy it purely as an investme:x Page 100 cf !28 Page 101 January 18, 20{)3 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MEMBER OLIVA: It's tike a time share. MS. MOORE: Yes, New York doesn't really have t4~ne shares because it'~ ~ffi~It ~ou¢ AO's o~ce ~eation. O~ states ~e much eas~er ~n ~ea~g time sh~es, ~t ft's v~ s~l~. MEMBER OLWA: I'd be ~t~ted in having ~e Pl~ng Bond's ~ents. MS. MOO~: It's gott~ ~1 s~te pi~ renew md it's go,eh SEQ~ reMew ~ou¢ - ~MBER OLWA: But we hav~'t received ~y com=ents, I'd l~e to he~ what ~ey have to say about ~t. MS. MO0~: But ~t c~e ~m ~. It cme ~ou¢ a ~or~mated renew ~ou¢ ~e prob~ ~s we keep gong back ~d fo~ betwe~ ~e ~o agencies ~d nobody m~es a decision. MS. OL~A: ~ just w~t a le~er. I don't w~t this whole thing blo~ up. I just wm~t a letter of what their concerns w~e ~d what they wo~d l~ke to see. MS. MOO~: You c~ ask for ~mg you'd }~ke, howev~, ~at was M1 ad~s~ ~n ~e S~Q~ process ~d that ali cme ~om the Plug Bo~d ~d let me ~s~e you ev~ ~nc~ they had was put ~nto the SEQ~ doc~ent. ~e concerns w~e ~om ~e be¢~g setback ~e bluff, where ~at ~e was because the line had deviated so much s~ce ~e 80's, so we went back ~d did a who~e en~ro~enta~ w~ C~c VoorMs, we ad&essed hke l~ne ~d where t~e setback was, p~Mng, &ainage~ We got a wedand peter ~om the kedge hole that had created over time. That too was addressed ~d t~ou~ the Trustees, you ~ow the pe~it ~om the T~stees but ~t came t~ough the Plaz~ing Dept. w~th respect to the whole pl~ MR. TEDALDI: ~at's on ~le ~ thi~ you just go over do~ the bM1 ~d make copies. MS. MOORE: It was a yew through review, we c~e to you at the tail end o¢the project and most impo~antly whe~ it first came to you in the 80's you had s~id go to the Planning Board get approval tbr the kitchenettes, not you per sa), bL~t the zoning bonrd at rlae thue which is why we ended up going to the p~anning bo~d because the site plan review had not addressed Mtchenettes as an issue so that's why we went over there addressed kitchenettes ~e SEQ~ review the kitchenette is not considered a s~itaw flow issue, it's a vew minor use for health d~a~ent reasons ~t's a small deviation Eom ~t's ofiCna~ submission. I hate to see th~s project delayed ~y ~dher because now we ~e on time E~es. Trustees have even us a pe~t, we don't want to have to get extensions o¢pe~its there's a moratorium and we are delaying the process even ~dher. If you have any concerns you can look ~t the PIm~ning Board file or share m~hing i have in my ~le w~th you m~d we are really at the end. And as I sa~d, the Planing Bo~d looked at ~t first. Page 101 of 128 Pa~ ~ ~C2 p~nk% for the wetlmads is ~a Ike file and tlhe Piar%~:g Bom'd tke SEQP¢~ noSaff, ve desk w~ ic you re gez to +~5s 1: on%~ ma~be 8 months ago ~ ~ ~ ~ ..... w~-~-S .o g~ ..... ~s CK}~RWO~N: Mr, Orl~de, MEMBER ORLANDO: see pu opposed zo covens% rest!orions? ~DALD~ No~ ~ M~MBER O~ANDO. O_~ you ~: ~ ~S. MOORE: ~ th~ ~ gave y~- de ~g~ m my _e.t~ wm~n w~.s w.~ va ....... t~ ~,_~ as a who~e fa!her than MR. TEDALDI: ice o~Lers r~ahy have no ~ ; ..... r ~-'* MEMBER ORLANDO: ine managerjusr needs to be ¢ - ~ * ~,~'--* ~ MR. TEDA%Di: me L. CHAIRWOMAN: Are ycu talking about ~he ....... ~ - ~'* -- MS. MOORE: Yes the letter i do:fi kn(x~ ~l~'~ i '~ .s' Ri ~ back ..... ~ ~/ cony :t we can bullet that ii will be open. ' ~- . ~Le~., b t ......... of ~o ..... :~__s .; board is _nchnea ~o rook reversely ~__ JJ~ a ¢ ~ cE,- ,~2 , .28 January 18, 2003 Southo]d Towr~ Board of Appeals Re§u~ar Meeting Public Hearing MS. MOORE: Just so t don't miss Shy, I'm sorry. CHAIRWOMAN: I don't know ifg, would be C&R's, If it would be C&R's or if it would be MS. MOORE: [ think it would be a condition of the special pezm/t. That's how I would expect it to be. CHAIRWOMAN: I just want to get the facts. Jerry. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: No questions, Lydia. CHAIRWOMAN: Is there anyone else in the audience who would 1LEe to speak for or against the application? BYRON CABBOTT: My name is Byron Cabbott. I oTM the property that's on the western border of tl'fis property. I have a general statement that I'd like to read in fi:ont of the board. Although there are specific issues that need to be adA~essed, for example the use and the configuration of the basement potentially designed as additional units are expanded accommodations. The location of the pool wlgch is along our propmty 1Lne and the consequendng noise and lights which may interfere with our natural enjoyment of our properties partdng, sewage, etc. The ¢mndamental question is whether a t~me sharing real estate ~nvestment vehicle w/th ldtchenettes should be permitted on the north fork. Of all the uses offals property whether it be houses, condominiums or a conventional motel, this use is the most devastating both env~rommentally and to the community at large. Such a real estate investment structure would permit encourage groups of individuals whether they be families, couples or friends to use these units as an economically cunvenient base from which to invade and crowd all the facilities which our community has to offer. It's beaches, parks, libraries, medical and police services with limited responsibility, actually just of a financial responsibility for the community at large. By it's very nature, the goal of time sharing is to provide it's investors and/or users with maximum rental income at all times which leads to overcrowding. One individual or one investor who has a 2-week slot and I realize they have covenants that tW to control these things, but these are very difficult mstrulner~ts to control and they rely on the ~t%- t5 oi~thc managemeat. Fer one individual to conceivably rent one of these units for a 2-week slot and invite his 3 or 4 friends to share the rent with him and they could use that as a base. Because this isn't Florida they wouldn't be flying to one of these units, they'd be driving, you'd have additional parking problems. It should be kept in mind that at the height of this season as many as 272 people that's 4 people per unit maybe occupying a 7 acre lot with 300+' ofbeachfi'ont. In addition to the inherent detrimental characteristics of time sharing such units would be grossly unfair to the existing motels without kitchenettes and would put pressure on them to convert to a time sharing fen'nat. It would also be unfair to the local real estate interest and the summer rental market since 68 units available for 2-week periods amount to 1224 rentals which would weaken the market for local residents and realtors who supplement their income through periodic sum~ner rentals making it more difficult for them to afford to live on the north fork. Finally time sharing would Page 103 of 128 FOR 4:40 pm App~ Nee g222 - ~©i~ERT & B~AP~% 2{©ILLEYo Tis is a request ~r a '~d~ seeder_ 33C, b~sed on ~e Buldh~g Dep&~2% Augv~st 28, 2002 Notice of Disapprcv~ for con~ction of~: accessory g~age wk~_ a front y~d s~fsack a! :ss tl~ 43L ~c¢:ior prope%t: i805 Bay Shore Rd. C~e~pon ED V~LB~AMS. BLDR: My name :_s Ed YV~i]~TS. bu{ider, i'm llze nroposec builder of'!e M~MBER GOEHR~GER: He was out it: Ge la~l before. MR. WILLIAMS: He was? I ddn't see CHAIRWOMAN: Let's gc re Ms. Osllssher. V4h, flon't you t? to find B-ucc. m ilqe meantime. 4:4~ pm App[ Ne, 5244 - EZLEEN GALLAGHER 7his is a request for a vaiaxce uncer seclon 3lB 135 to est~o[ish a proposed AccessoPy Aem~;ment ~n co%unction w[tln the owner's residence, ar [ 575 Minnelna~a Blvd. So%Ihold 87-%51. EILEEN GALLAGHER: Hello. I'm ~ileen Oallagncr She i'm here re request per:%iss~on '~ pm an accessow aem~erx in my residence. CHAfRWOMAN: This is a one bedroom alz~crl ever an existing 8arage? Page I04 o=!28 pa~e 105 January 16, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeels Regular Meeting Pubtic Hearing MS. GALLAGHER: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: I see the apartmentjs going to be about 726 sq. ft. are you able to show us off street parking on this7 MS. GALLAGHER: Yes, I submitted a smwey which shows that there are 6 spots for off street pm~Jng. CHAIRWOMAN: The survey indicates there are 2 driveways. MS. GALLAGHER: There's a parking area which is 3 spots. There's a driveway which leads to my garage which is 2 spots and then there's a driveway around the front of the house which is where the original garage was which was the sixth spot. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Goehringer? MEMBER GOEHR1NGER: How are yon? MS. GALLAGHER: Fine Jerry, how are you? MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I was over to the house and I think I missed you, I didn't make an appointment, but one of these days Ill just stop by on the weekend and take a look at {t. Let me just tell you what one of the minor concerns was and I 'chink we overstepped that concern and that was one of the criteria's to the aparmaent was to have a CO prior to 1984. Now we know that you reconstracted the house. We are not raising the issue anymore. I had a CO, a pre- existing CO for the older house. MEMBER GOEHR1NGER: We know that you put a new addition on, but we are not raising that issue anymore. That was the only issue, it wasn't necessarily a concern of mine, it was how the law reacted to that. And I just don't think you can take the whole situation and carve out something and say some of it might have been old, some of it new - there's no issue there and I didn't raise it, it's just an issue. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Orlando. MEMBER ORLANDO: It will be a one-bedroom apartment above the existing 3-car garage, correct? MS. GALLAGHER: Yes. MEMBER ORLANDO: That was lay clarification. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN: Ms. Oliva. Page 105 of 128 MEMBER ~L~A. You {on ~ have to put ~ny new fitfi%Ss .... ~, ~S ~ALLAGHE~: Y~s~ ~EI~ER GOEH~GER: ~en we look g 'd~s, Eiieen, we ~e ]ooi~ng at thos~ wi:~dows 5nat ~'~ above th~ g~ag~ MS. GALLAGHE~: Yes, there% wfindows fa~ng fn~ scar. fi: ~d file w~s~ smd i~ nor~. ~ m~y p~ that would not have w~idows is tlne nar~ tlna~ is afcached to t?e rndn kousc. MEMBER O~AN~O: So to access ff':e ap~mr~en~: you have :o go tl~u~ tke side doer ofth~ ggage tl¢~ up tire stairs. CH~WO~N: ~zy questions ~orn ti%e bom'd me~sers~ [s there mzycne else in tko audlenc~ who wotfld like re spe~ for or against tl~o application? Semng nc broads. 711 =~al<e a motion closing the hemdng reserving decision tm';i! lalez~ i see no -%obi~ms wiff-z ti!s~ ! ye my!awed tlz~ code ~_cl ! thir2< you'v~ met the code. PLEASE SEE MNUTES FOR RESOLUTION CHAIRWOMAN: Did we find 54:. Anderso'~_? MR. WILLIAMS: No. but ~fi car be CHAfAWON~AN: We have a sro-oosal for an accesso~7 garage, ~:e al_ ~- ~f'those lots now merged~ MR. WiLL~.MS: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: The lots have been merged sir? MR. WiLLiAMS Yes to my knowledge they have been. We nave hays a DEC pe~it. =age IC8 of (28 Pa~e ~07 January ~, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing CHAIRWOMAN: ~ see you have a significant mount of environmental constraints on the property, the wetlands. Now that garage is going to serve a dual the driveway to the garage you'll use the same driveway to the single story house? MR. WILLIAMS: Not really. The driveway they have now just goes straight into their property. They would have to e~ter and exit through thek exist~g driveway anyway. CHAIRWO~N: The garage doors are gokng to be facing to the side of the propeCry¢. IV~P~. WILLIAMS: They would be facing the driveway. CHAIRWOMAN: I don't have any further questions, Mr. Goebfinger. 1V~MBER GOEHPdNGER: What utility would be in the garage, Mr. Williams? MR. WILLIAMS: What utility? MEMBER GOEHR2NGER: Electricity. MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, electricity. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: No water, no bahhroom facqlity, no heating? MR. WlLL~dMS: No. No insulation, no heating. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Strictly a storage building to be used in concert with the house? MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Orlando. MEMBER ORLANDO: Nothing on the half ftoor up above the garage MR. WILLIAMS: Stor;t,,e MEMBER ORLANDO: The no-turf zone, was that put there by the Trustees or you put that there, DEC? MR. WILLIAMS: I assume the DEC, I'm not familiar with that part of the application. But we have the DEC permit, we have a Trustees permit that was issued the Trustees permit was issued back in May of last year. MEMBER ORLANDO: No other questions. CHAIRWOMAN: Mrs. Oliva. Page 107 of 128 Southdd Town 2oard of A~eals ~egu[ar Mee?.n~ Pub ~,c ?e~?]ng ~ho appHcafien? ~y f~ia~ bosd q~oslior~s? MR. V¢[LL7~S: May [ ~k for a vote? PLBAS~ SBU ~NUTiS FOR RBSOLUTiON 30A3, b~ed on ~e B,~ld~mg Dep~%~zer2% S~t~b~ 29, 2002 Notice of Dissppzav~ concern[rog a prell 3sed c~on addition ~e dwell~g et[ch is proposed at less titan 5ff i~cr~ ¢:ont property l~ne, LocatioN. of Prop m~: 4-85 l{~Ilady- L~ce, Sou!rid: 70-13-20,35. CHAIRWOMAN: Hello. Ms. Moore. MS. PATRtC[A MOORE. EgO: ~ have Mr. BoNe h~re who pu race.ire froze last tfzr_s he's {~e ardnitect on this pr{ec~, tis prejec~ is prob~oly a headache to pu as k is ~o evewoxe else just ikfie dnkefing back and feral had ceased the problem along the way. When tie clan was submitted to the building depaxmem originally it was [usu sc vo,umincus a--d so corn ~ ~carct: teens the capoN. Ilo samctions or the found&ions fur the car~on were poured and vchc~3 ¢'~e vmdance. So here we are after {!e fae~ after the louse which is essex1[aiy rnc cszemKers house, ifs 3 bay garage with living 2ua~ers score ft, [na sense ween racy first c~:%e Is me h was supposed k be so we could avoid va~anccs becsmse '.o our a garage ox a separate 3~ece pi-opurty rccluires a var!anco because l?'S ar accesso~' s%111c{11!-~ %v:_{hoE, 80ri'iCli3]~ SiiZCTUf~ S( We put ms hying ouaners aoove m Obviously went through aL the xoccsses o~'heslth depa~Tmni and sud and low ~d behd~ we did:fi avoid mar~ vaiiances ~f¢/ay. The bui ding is now the gszage is bMlt so you cern see ifs quke teK. Architectaraly Ns nor: cesigzed without that oo~ico Sage ~08 cf 128 Fage 109 January 16, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing WARREN BOHN: The portico is designed to help reduce the scale of the face of the house facing the street as you can see it steps down and creates 2, actually 3 dormer peaks which the cars drive tkroug~ as a gate entrance. The gatehunse into the propc~'y and the compound and it helps reduce the mass in relationships to the low roofs that also circulate around th~ north side and the street side of the building. CHAIRWOMAN: This is for the front yard setback of 2T correct? MS. MOORE: Yes. CHAIRWOMAN: If we could possibly to make this as short as possible, where is 27' on the drawing? MS. MOORE: 27' is at the e~d of the overhang. MEMBER ORLANDO: tt's on a comer. CHAIRWOMAN: And the foundation is poured for the 3-car garage? MS. MOORE: The 3-car garage is there. The portico, the sanctions you can see on the cross- sections, this little drawing. The foundation poured to hold up the structures- MEMBER OLANDO: Th. ey are wiLbJn 50'. CHAIRWOMAN: Right now what we are looking at is half of the portico that is non- conforming? MS. MOORE: This is.~ust the carport because the building itself is conforming, but you have to go and see it, it's not very attractive right now because it is just a tall building without architectural integrity on the street side. MEMBER ORLANDO: And this will soften it up. MS. MOORE: This will soften, bring it down and bring it in line with the main house. And you can see the portico actually lines up with the breezeway so it all flows together. CHAIRWOMAN: Actually what happened was the yard was not measured from the ROW. It was measured from the property line, 20' error. Ms. Oliva. MEMBER OLIVA: No questions. CHAIRWOMAN: Mr. Orlando. MEMBER ORLANDO: No questions. Page 109 of 128 CHAP~WOMk&N: ,1Vm Go~r~inger. MPnV::BER GOEHRINGER; On {~e ~ndon~ you~us'~ gave us ~aS:ac~a~ly ~he dist~cce to the prop~q~ line? MS. ~OO~: 67.8 is to ~e stTeeL nc: '~e lsrep~zy CH~OM~N: ~e~e is ~e 27 that ~ne~s MEMBER GOEH~-GER: I don't '~mZ¢ i~at% activate, t~afs wky i asked tbs auestion. Let M~MBER O~AN~O: Yon need s vsiascs foz 8 CHAIRWOMAN: Thg's vZ~y we need a clai~sstion MEMBER GOEHRN~GER: It looked g~ Ikde doss to me at 27. tlcaffs ice reason why we came up with flhe 32, 11bought you were more accurate. MS~ MOORE: Fm t~ing tlne a~lSeB from om~ p/s~sss!enals, OHAiRi~OMAN: Is there anyone else in tNe aud{ence who would 2ks to speak for or against the appNcat:.on? See~N ~ no hands, Fl] mske a moi5 MS. MOORE: Yes. ?LEASE SEE ~UTES FOR RESOLUTION 5:13 p~ Appk No, 5051 - CZ~FF AND P~77%% 3OBST~R HOUSE. Continued heanr Prom February 28. 2002 ;Tkis kearix$ H i~iied Building DopeR-reeL's Notice or Disasprova~ issue{ November I 3. 200 k amended/updated Page :tO of (28 P~g~ ~ ~ ~ January '~, 2(}03 Southold Town Board of Appeats Regular Meeting Public Hearing October 22, 2002, applicant requests zoning detcmnLnations for: (a) ~ ~t~retation ~der ~cle ~, Section 100-243 to Revise ~e B~lding D~ent% detemnafion w~ch s~tes ~a* ~e propos~ ad~fio~alt~afions to ~ e~sfing resta~t estab~s~en~ is not pe~ed ~n a ~Res~denfi~ R-40 D~s~ct, or ~t~afively a V~ance au~o~z~ng ~e propos~ addition to ~e e~s~g resta~ a nonconfomng ~e ~n a nonconfo~g b~t~g; ~d ¢) a setback v~ce ~s also requested ~d~ Section 100-244B for mn addition to ~e existing building which ~1[ be ~ess ~ 40' ~om the ~ont prope~ line. Location ofPrope~: Com~ of the e~t side K~y~s Road ~d ~e sou~ side of No~ Sea Dfive~ Sou~o~d; P~cel ~000-54-5-22. C~WO~N: We had a request by ~s bo~d ~o re-open ~e he~ng on Cliff ~d Lobst~ House spe~ficaHy to ad&ess ~e st~d~d ~d 1~ to ~e s~ct st~d~ds of NYS to~ law for use v~ce st~d~ds. T~e p~ose of~s [s for ~e bo~d to be abte to asc~n what a reasonable rate ofre~ ~s s~l~ ~ ~S tom law. We have renewed some of~e fm~c[~ da~ ~at you have pres~ted ~o m. ~e bosom line ~s ~t as you ~ow we have to be able ~o m~e a detonation. The dete~nafion ~s b~ on some ~nd ofb~s as to wha~ [s reason~b~e. ~at rate c~ be established by you by pro-~g ~ M~ suffic~m~ mmke ~at de~[nafion, 5owever, fhl~e ~ pm~de enou~ ~nfomation for us dete~nation ~s a d~aL I don't ~[~ there's ~y dispute of tha~. ~ ~[~ ~. Ts~[s w~lt a~ee M~ me you've ~ven us c~e law which would subst~date ev~h~g I~m sang. ~e o~er ~ea ofTo~ ~w tha~ we wo~d ~e you to ad,ess ~s ~hat for each ~d evew per,ted use, ~nc~ud~ng conditional use ~ the ~s~ct that ~e prope~ c~ot ~eld a reasonable ra~e ofre~. ~a~ ~ssue has not be~ ad~essed. ~e p~ose of~is he~ng [s so~ely to look a~ ~e econo~c ~s~es. As f~ ~ det~[nadon of doll,s ~d cents proof cost of ~e prope~ p~d, ~ c~ng costs, I'm telling you what ~s st~d~d op~a~g proced~es so you are aw~e of~t. Value of~e prope~ expense, c~ng ch~ges, t~es, encumbrance, ~ual ~ncome defiv~ ~om ~e prope~ md e~dence to the p~chase price. For ~e behest of those ofyo~ who ~e h~e we txave had yew few use vafi~ces d~ng the last 7 or 8 years ~d this board ~as set a vew c~ear st~d~d that must be met ~n accord~ce w~th NYS town law. We have made no deviations ~om that and that's we expect so [*m asking you as the app]~c~t to provide that ~nfo~afion to us ~ong with t~x ret~s or ~y ot~er info~afion ~at you c~ to mee~ ~e ~tefia. You ~e a well versed attorney you know exactly what Pm saying. GEORGE TSUNIS, ESQ,: Thank you madam cSa~an. Good evening, my name is George Tsunis, I'm an attoraey with the law l~rm o[' Ri~Mn Radler~ EAB ?];~za, Uaion&flc, NY. I'n~ very co~izan~ this board has been here since the early morning and I wilt try to be concise and brie~ For m~y ye~s and you ~e fighI it is a yew difficult st~d~d. For m~y ye~s the co~s have confided to ~e bo~d a delicate juhsdicfion ~d one easily abused. I know you are cognizant of that Madam Cha~. Upon a showing of~eeessaw h~dship, genera~ roles ~e suspended for the beneS~ of individual owners ~d special circ~s~ances, special phv~]eges esrabI[shed. The st~dar~s are unnecessaw hardship and if it is exhibited, a variance cm~ be ~anted. What the coups have said is when general restrictions create t~is hardship and the criteria are met, tha~ there is an obligation by this board to ~t the phvilege to the applicant that promotes equal justice. TB~e ~e 4 c~tefia for a use vafi~ce. Cfiteha No. 1 [s to d~ons~ate that the appl~c~t ca~ot reahze a reasonable rate ofre~ that is done by competent fin~cial evidence what we call doll~s ~d cents. You ~so have to show that each and eve~ other use in the zon~ng Page 111 of 128 Page { ~ 2 at~en~o2 to yom- o-~ To~ Code ~ ~ R-4O d[s~ tko peri,ced uses ~e b~ ~_ R~48 a sh~e savors] fas'mrs ~a~ a~so should be ~nsid~ed. Real ss're're ~e% ~l<s~ laht~csace~c. prop~?f even ~fyeu ~enk open up fha doer lo thc res~a~nt Doeszk ~na/d sr ~fyou close tko res~a~L~;~ 3~200 for ~le me,gage, aboul 608 fcc Cc.e taxes for ~se m~rL~mncc fcc 'is ~d not a Lot of peopLe ~e able to pay ~ss2 ca a singls p~cel, x~/tafa also b'~densome 02 '['ils red for tko last ~ee years, but a reaso~sJs!e rate of z~l% ~ad~T_ Chefs. ar. 2va Looked s~ many [frs rosily [~e discretion of{ds bo~d, You also in ~e zos~n8 dssi~:ion are dior/ed ts have mmay of the uses in ~e a~xcuit-~ sonses~aiion ~s~ct Excqsz for d*ildrs:s recreatiez cm~ a have a ]lsr~. a musem% an ~e g~l~, Xov/please ke~ in mint before [ read fne uses Coal Chirr{ some of iasc uses once I m~fioxed ism ifs just nor pratt!c6 or 9asible to s-Sa this ~2e of use on a half acre ofpro~ snt. Pier ~ld Sorrier. ~ops, viney~d, orchard maimmsance ora n='sa~ ~.d seasozal sale ofproducis ~own on tko premises, tko ksesing~ breeding, raising ~m training of horses, domestic srlmals~ fowl but we don: meet the 10-acre mouir~nent, bams~ szorage faci!iiies~ ~e~r!ouses etd other rela~ed such srrac'n-res sr~d +ko r%ail ese of produce in a building o~nsd by the town of Souffsold or a sdrmol district a hark diet!cz or a fire distict [ donk bsNeve ~here is anp:h!n8 here tks/~ would rsailze a rate ofreluxc Ce/mixly no~ ail the 1rings [ mentioned other than a house. Now the house is a posslNlky. The hc use has possibility. I mean clcarN all the ~ther slrcciurcs in tNm nc ~lnborhooc. all thc cthc'~ uses are a ve~ proxy penny for m Number two. there m'c costs established in knocking this restauram dc~a_ doing a clean up~ penmitt~ng, s cfi costs, consinactin~ a house, iplsi:~g up park:ns m~s. :o mention that lh~re n sods :o be mid the coves were s secific about this a t} pe of amonizatlon about &e monies tha* are put in. Courts are [osihe to punish apphcan m ,/no in good Saki have made ir. vestments (-o 5odher their business. 2' would be extremely cliff cult for '-he aplslic~m now say, you know we put money rotc air cox{hionin8, carpets, windows, iranes, glasses. cutlery, and to sa~ all that money is fix nas gm. So tc nu~ }ne home ss tiers would nos msel the standsxd of having a reasonabIe rate of'return, i turn }o your attention che briefing bcok~s' 8ave you the last time sve met wh~e i have a real estate exne~. Andrew riff e dc st_ ar_alys:s of the homes and the arises in {hat area. On page ~wo he spoke shout i:ci~d lots. And although 'cPm prices are fis~ng, or they have in rise last couple of yes's. &z inland bt according m car Page 1!2 of 128 Page 113 January 16, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appsa~s Regular ~eet~n~ P~b~c Hea~n~ r¢co~zed profesMon~ who gave you ~tten testimony, which you have, sold for $75~000 to $~45,000, ~ '02 it soM for $130,000 to $205~000~ Cle~iy ~ese ~e well below even ~e mos~ expms{ve inl~d ]ot soM {n 2002 accord~g to Mn S~e would not be able, my client wo~d be mab]e to receive ~s ~nvesment back. ~d ~aes just ~e p~chase price, ~aes no~ ~g about. a]t~*~e oth~ ~gs you have to do to m~e ~s ~nto a bui]dabie lot. We t~ about do[las cents proof ~d I have provided you w~th 2000, 200~ ~d 2002 ~scal ye~ profit ~d loss statem~ts by a centred public ac~t~t. You h~ve ~at. I~m a]so, ffyoulI ind~ge me I have a copy of 1999, 2000, ~d 200~ ~ re~s for CHff~d Ph~]*s ~bst~ House, ~c. We have shown to provide dollgs ~d c~ts proof by c~fied fin~ciaI statem~ts done ~d~ oa~ ~d a~afion by a ce~i~ed pubIic accouter but now 3 yem oft~ re~s. I ~ to do as much rese~ch to pro,de ~s bo~d w~ a jusfi~cafion m ~t ~s application. ~ere ~e c~es l*ve re~ ~at spoke about a zo~ng bo~d of appe~s may ~t a use v~ce on ~he ~o~d ~ecess~ hgds~p wh~e ~e ]~d is ~capable of ~eld~ng a fak re?~ on a nonconfom~ng use w~ch ~s is because of obsolete or ~lapidated ~prov~ents. Clegly if you look a~ ~s es~bl~s~ent ~¢s bern ~ere s~ce the 1950~s ~¢s ~ old est~ol~s~ent I s~d we should be ~d~ whe~ed by {es ext~or ~d ~t really needs to be ~prove& la o~ nei~bo~g to~ Hmp*on, ~e was a c~e yeas back wh~e the appl~c~ts ]~d w~ ~mproved by a b~ that was so l~ge as to render ~pracdc~ h~s conversion to a singIe fm~iy residence ~d ~e co~s have s~d where h's impracfic~ to put a sin~e f~ily resta~_t. ~eth~ it's a barn or whe~ it's a restam-~t thaes ~ need ofimprov~ent~ ~e relief was ~ted. ~ere w~ also a case where ~h~e was a v~ce to build a gasoline station ~ a residenti~ ~s~ci Wh~e ~e l~d w~ ~capable of producing a reasonable rate ofre~ from a residenfiJ use because the ~provements whidn we~ ~c{ent ~d ~usable for residenfi~ p~oses. I ~ you mi~t a~ee it is less thru ideal if~e app]ic~t would have to ~ock down ~ existing res~t where ii wou]d be f~ cheap~ to ~prove his existing resta~ant so he c~ build a home. ~d we~ve also sho~ that he's paid too much money and has too much invested to do that ~d receive a reasonable rate of ream. Madam chai~ ~ have mentioned that t~s is a yeW dif~cult st~d~d. But not ~ impossible one, not mn impossibIe one. There ge many things that need to be t~en into consideration. The ~o~t ofhhe mo~gage, the mo~t of~e improvements, ~e expenses, the maintenance~ the income, but at the end of hhe day, {t should not be concluded that zoning boards of appeal act w~th incomplete fidelity of the req~rem~/s imposed by the statutes and the coups. Evidence supports the conclusion that the stringent judicial standards may become quite modest limitations when they are redefined by a board w~th it's own notions of it's functions and powers. You do not need to prove this beyond a reasonablc doubt. There is a heavy burden, but not within a reasonable doubt. What l'm saying is in special circ~st~ces when a lack of reasonable ream a ~queness ~ment a ch~acter in na~e of · e co~ity ~ment are there, it's perfectly within your discrection to ~t the application. E~ly eases spe~s about flxe fifth and the fo~eenth ~lendment to the consti~Xions where if an upzone which has happened here which people can call confiscator or a t~en ~d Pm not here ~e what was done to this propeNy. But when those circumstances exist there is a safety valve that was put into the law that ~-anted this board wide discretion aud powers to fix it. And I'm not asking to create a new restaurant. I'm merely asking for a modest exp~sion to comply with ADA, to have a waiting ~ea, to have a modest expansion of which you have the power to limit as well so my client can texize a reasonable rate of return. On top of that, the by-product will be a much improved restaurant. When instead of a square looking building, you've all seen the Page 113 of 128 plus, ~¢s bea~zfi~L hfs more co~/~-esque, ff~ere;s do~s ~nd pe~(s &rd ifs ve?y ~ce, 7]; tel you what else. Yo~ ow~ to~ bo~d ends!cried for a nonccnfo~lng use ~ ~xpm-sicn for up 30% ~_d t~ds was past v~ :ec~dy~ l ~ow you have ~o ~ the spplicafcn tc t!ce no disc:often As long as yo~ ms~e k bok more So'~hcld-i~e ~nc you 2-~ !ne ]~_dsc%s~g :m c~n't be ]~ke each and evew one. So porn don't have mss hysteria whe~a 'icy say ok my goa prcpe~l is going to become a res~a-~l~, I'~ 5~icel[y say~ ~ len~ as thee ~e no~ a lot h ~Js case ff~Es is the ~rZy l~e situated property ifs ~e orly one '~at co,Md be a resiars~% so you are net gong m have ~y presider that ~zy e'~ resta~ or stay o'!z~ oftNe co~nity. A2 ohs has to do is look a~ ~:e exisffng building mhd look s! ice ~zo-:csea ffnat tl~s ~rcoosal r_si~es this more in keying with the esserlgal dnaracts: ~d nS:s/re of the ceremony. ~hen we discussed 'is last criteria, the se~f created h~-dshi~ :omits have hem 2cat where money was spent in ~ood ~hith on a pe~fiffred use w~lch was nc [onSet pe~kled it is proper for the board to consider ttis fact not withstanding rice hard~xZp was not crssled. These diPficak se'. of citeffa to m_est and I respectf~;iy submit it you don'i grant k on this appica'ion tl~ ~'~ is substantla: aestketlc !lT_prOV~ltS. a set of covenants ~zd res{~ctions a brmnd new condZfioning system that doesnk go bzzzzz, if pm don't ~mr2 :J- here where there ere snoot6 drcumstm~ces ve~ un~que special circumstances where there has bser s:~ inequky~ where wcu~d you grant W. I thank you very, very much far y }ur {~dulgence and this coxdudes my you CHAIRWOMAN: WouM the Bsm'd Members Nave any cuesfions m this time? MEMBER GOEHR~GER: i denk have m~ ouestions. CKA-RWOMAN: Mr. Orlando? MEMBER ORLANDO: None, MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Chah~oman [ have to tell you that at 6:00 1 have to (28 P~g~115 January 1B, 2003 Southold Town Board ofAppeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing CHAIRWOMAN: F~re? MEMBER GOEHRINGER: No, another meeting. CHAIRWOMAN: The ~Sgures that you mentioned as far as the carry/rig cost, the precious cost, those f~gures, could you bullet those on one page? MR. TSD~'NIS: I'm sorry I didn't hear you. CHAIRWOMAN: Could you bullet those? MR. TSLrNIS: Certakdy, I11 send that to the Zoning Board o¢fice next week. CHAIRWOMAN: Sometimes it's very hard to go through 25 pages of hear/rigs if someth~g's losk it's better to have it in writing. MR. TSUNIS: I was only here for two hours I understand. CHAIRWOMAN: We will review this data. Would councit tike to add anything, opposing council regarding the financiM data? PATRICL& MOORE, ESQ: Yes. Knowing how you just set up your file, I've set up a th'~rd memorandum. With aH due respect, the only thing I learned today was the price o£the propeCry. Everything else had bean previously suSmStted and now I know what he pa~d for the property which is $300,000. The evidence that's been presented so far just does not substantiate the burden of financial proof of the and it has to be proof of lack of reasonable return which is substantial. The fact that the property was $300,000 when he bought it about the same time, now that I know the price. About the same time, Ross's restaurant was for sale up on the North Road. And at that time tl~at restaurant was going for at least $200,000 more and the reason for that is that Ross's is the old restaurant now it's O'MaIleys. The difference is that up there, it's a permitted use. The restaurant, the size of the restaurant they are pretty comparable but up there, it's where it can stay and it's where it can groxv. There are no limitations. Here the price was reflective of the 52ct that this is a non-conlbnuing property with a nol2-confbrluing usc and the limitations are severe. And i know it's very hard as an applicants attomey mosl of the time to say this but a use variance should be impossible to get because it is the equivalent of the Board acting as a legislature. If the Town Board had wanted to make this a permitted use, it had the opportunity to do so since the 50's. This property has been zoned residential since it's inception since zoning came in effect. The evidence that has been presented in prior hearings as personal testimony as well as your records, your zoning records. Zoning fight from the beginning this is a residential neighbothood. This becante a pre-existing non-confbn~aing use. Nobody is asking them to close it down if they were to close it after a certain period of time it would be abandoned. That's the nature of a non-conforming use. I just don't but it. The Board has very restrictive taw. It is almost treatise-like in the volumes of the cases that have been reviewed with respect to use-variances. They just are not allowed. On a rare occasion, this just doesn't get it. Page 115 of 128 %%s p:op~ own~ wlren they bou¢rt tl~s p~ece he w~ akeadv ~ on¢:a;o~ cf t!e busrzess ~ believe he had be.n op~:at~mg for a ~nple of yea*s, h's never be~n ~sclcssd exactly hew Bnt he bout% k I~oeing how the bus.ess :~, Pres'~_~iy you doz.": b;;y a business -~iess you accessow (o fibs exisffng rssra~r~ i;~lat he~s proposed is ~ss~rt!aily it~ ecu!valor; us~ ;o a They provided a~ ~ t~ied ~m~dal sz~:~ne~% - it% ~e sa~e as Ire o'!ce: o~ly aeraally k s!cws 2~%ow~om lfttey ~*e ss~S ilat burma the prop~rs7 fc~' 8300, 200 wii~ a Eong~ge of 258 fi-re business tha~ exists doesn~ c~- {~ze ]og~ ~o p~z telling me elba1 a renovation is. at has ':o he comes ';o a use vafisnce. Yo,a don't stzbstantisle your lad< ofreascn~ie remm by ohfeffng to {-heo~just doesnk add up. The ZBA is :onstrainefi m~fi i know you s~c. ggled with this for years because it is a dlfffcuk emotional problem with a use that's exisfirg. Ce%ainiy :he ressur~n: nc doubt it's existing ~zc our keats go our :o th~% azad i th!r2 everyo:ze hers. if they dldnl feel sc stxcngly one way or another would sw geez you know too bad tlaWYe not is a zoning district because nobody likes {c be the bad gay and say ne including the Zoning BeL~d. know you all want to iW to come ':o compromises But ibis just doesn't hole waler. This application !fy }:: do the wrong thing you may ge'r sued by the snnlicax~ bm mos{ assuredly each because the law is sc clear wi~n respect to they are so c~car they arc prcsumea dc:nee. N has x be such a ~'eat b~-d~n to show t!tat there is nc way that you can genera:e a reasonsble re~'u:~, it just doesn't m~xe sense Wen that ies a selPJmposed hardship. He bought it t!fe way k is and doing quke well creS!ve accoun~dng can sometimes come un with the rambers you worx but the facts speak for ~-hemse]ves they are busy~ they have a io~ of ns. kens that frequent uae place. Secondly, yes there are uses that wou[d be a reason ;o conve~: this ;o y >u do have a resrauran,. but it wouldn't be that dif!cult to convert this t( a residence [ xcan you have ~c k:khe:t. liwng area. it's not tho hard and given the price o7S300. )00 let me tel you thc or:cos arc fief now I saw ~rodW in my office a potato barn ffnat is going flor $30030( ~:d that's sometNng ~icat you ~ow wlcat are you going to do v/i~ia a P 3;a':o barn in tee sa~_c condition. ~e harsher is aclally quits rsasonPole asd ~-Izz~{ goodness for aH of us that irs prcper~ ye.uss hays gong Page 116 of 128 Page '~ ~ 7 ~ Jsmmry ~6, 2003 Southeld Town Board of Appeals Re~lar ~ee~in~ Public Head~g because aga~ it ~de~es the ~ ~at there is no fin~nci~ reasonable ream. They co~d sell ~e prop~ tomo~ow ~d m~e a v~ good proof. This ~s a war,Jew prop~ l me~ it's not wa~e~ont but ~t would be r~g ~n the equivalent of a wate~ont prope~r became ~here's nobodg ~o~d you c~ see out to the w~ter. Put a ~ce 2nd StO~ residence ~d you have a -~eaufif& ~ew. No other houses ~o~d you bloc~ng yo~ ~ew so ag~ it's aveW di~c~, b~den ~d ~e law is so complete when it comes ~ese issues. I wmt back ~d I di&~'~ photocopy ~1 the cases that [ si~ted became i~ wo~d just be vol~es to preset to you. If you see a c~e ~at you w~ ~o read speci~cally you just ~te to me ~ ~. Ts~s or myself puli it up ~d we'll send i~ to you. But you c~ look at the ~ea~ses on use v~ces it's ~l thee. %~e's not~g ~que a~d ~ h~d ~ it is l ~ow it's just ve~ ~cult ~d i'm s~e ~a~ ~y good Ia~er ~a. hM r~resented ~ on ~e purchase would 5ave told ~ how ~c~t it wo~d be w~m ~ey bou~t ~is business. Live M~ what you have, you'll do ~ne. Just don'~ go loo~ng for ~5ese exp~iom. It puts ~e co~m~ty at odds. Jus~ wi~ resp~ to n~b~, S~e did no~ do a v~ ~qorou~ ~cial stat~ent or appr~s~ M~ respect ~o ~s prop~ he does s~y in Ns s~tement ~at ~e prices r~ge N 2002 ~om $~30,000 to $205,000 for vacm~ l~d. l ~ow ~om my phone c~is because it's v~ diffi~lt to F~d appr~s~ that somehow or ~ot~ been involved ~th hNs prope~ at one point or ~o~. But ~e~ve [he Nfo~afion ~yhow wNch is t~at they ~e on La~e Drive there w~e 3 vacant lots ~.d eac~ of them sold for $145,000 now one of hSem is back on ~e m~ket ~or sale for $190,000 '~at's a yacht lot ~d ~ey ~e little ~ a~e lots. PNces ~e esc~ating. ~e ~ouse ~o doo~ away is a house ~a~ sold for $~75,000 it*s oNy a 2-bedroom ho~e. it's v~- Ncc ~d modem bu~ ~75, you ~ow you c~ renovate ag~n you c~ r~ovate OJs resta~t put a beauti~ house ~e ~d do q~te well. We're not suggesting that they sell this prope~ ~d ~ it Nto a house i~s r~eir derision but it does not constitute a fin~cial h~dship to say the oNy ~ng we co~d do l ~ess is ke~ it as a resta~t. MEMBER GOEHR~GER: i've sat here for 22 years ~d l've sat t~on~ a lot ofvmq~ce heaNngs, but no one has ev~ said to me that the ~anfing ora use v~ance w~. legislative ~d I'm going to ~ell you the reason why ~d ~ Mqow it's your opinion and I respect yo~ opinion. MS. MOORE: I thimk in the treatise's that's the way it's described. MEMBER GOEHR~GER: Well the dift~rence is and this is the difference tSe number one of the building through some sort of means, hun'icane, electrical sto~, or just a fire which we are ce~nly not encouraging to happen the prope~y reve~s back to a use vafi~ce or does it reve~ back to the zoning? It reve~s back to the zoning. MS. MOORE: Co~ect. So it eliminates the use. MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Therefore, it's not legislative. MS. MOORE: I'm not sr~e I underst~d yo~ ~alysis. Page 117 of '128 MEMBER GOEHR~-GER: it may relate back to ~*~¢ use, 5u~ more tlc~% HkeLy ME~ER GOE!i~-GER: %xaffs con'es':, MS~ MOOPS: ~ ~MBER GOEHR~GER: No, on a p~idng ~oI yes, on m-~ im3rove:~enu no. h~ my op~rion. MS~ MOOPS: Well in a~y case we sff]I hav~it met ~_e %u~den k_ere, CiEA~VfOM~N: ;s thee mn~ing yo~ wotx~d l~e re say 5n r~x?ial to ffqat? MR. TSL~IS: Yes With aE due respect the bom~d here is not ~m%ing ~ting a nonconfo~ing exps~smn ora '~se ihaffs already existing. I% 5e~n exlsfxg si:zee 1950. iffs nor ~m~fiing a use, [h riel taking a vac~2 piece of property, asking for a use ~o cons:mc': a res~am%n~. ~nat would be someff~ng ~ea';~, That woad 5e in.educing something foreign or new ~o tlne co~m'~iV. I'm merely asking for 2~nmissicn ~o renovate a resmuram mhd do a mild ex*sansion of a reslaurar2 that ~as been ~itsre before ihs 2cmos were Gem. Ms. Moore by her o~. admission sdd there was a lot that was now aiprecia:e{ !90.030 thais still 55% ~-eS. er thinz vdzat my cliff2 paid and you sil have tc factor im-xovemema ah tr_e sta~dp coszs. The cos~ of contirmdng a restszrart ~d knockin8 it dc wn and crearfn~ a [oi that's suitable for the consfmcfion cfa home. T( tree a apphcant ncr husband is a contractor and ! jus" don': think he~s going 10 proi~t fi'om ~ this family ~s a con,actor who can do this relatively inexpensively, i don't ii, ink that '-hey would ge'r in~o this without analNing exactly how much it would cost wliou: being and saying look we cmn finance this thing so we esr {r~prove L so vee can and create a more beaufiffal building mid landscaping and the bank's go:ng 're say but only :_5 you get some son of commercial financial componen~ thais going to allow you re make a profit because the place is ~oc small. 2urthernaore !he ccuz: ~s very, ye:% tear on this :_ntr:.nsic scientilc dca. I heurd a liltie about ~his and in n% iravels !ye done that ant intrinsic scierfific fists. Someone siaied something ~oout a restsara,% on the Nctlh Road clay thaes sat of simi!m' in size and what not mad so on and so ffcSfa. Thais xoz fas way dscisicns are based. We've given voiu~inous documenzs eases memor~?mcms }fiw. picz~es, ishotcs. Page(!Scf128 Page 119 January 16, 2003 Southo~d Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing ~ayouts, sketches, professional testimony from a recogrfized real estate expert, lvly good friend and learned council Ms. Moore is correct. They don't g~ve a lot of these out. But what we were able to do is to go into the cases and find the exceptions the circumstances where you do eve them out I know I've checked w4th the Town Attorney, Mr. YakabosM you've granted seven in the last 2g years. So you do gdve them out when you meet the criteria. You g~ve them out m~er special ckcumstances. CHAIRWOMAN: Do you know when they were? They've got to be prior to I995. MR. TSUNIS: I have no idea. He said seven/n the last 28 years. I can affirmatively state that. I don't know when they were issued or what the cases are, but- CF~AIRWOIVLkN: There haven't been any since I've been on the Board. MR. TSUNIS: And let me conc]ude by sa3dng th~s. You are not granting a use. You - CHAIRWOMAN: It's an extension ora non-conforming use. MR. TSUNIS: Theuse is already there. CHAIRWOMAN: Let me ask you a question. What do you estimate would be a reasonable rate of return? MR. TSUNIS: I think a rate of return needs to be at least something that you can achieve in a municipal bond or a treasury bond that's probably in the neighborhood of 5 or 6%. That's really my opinion and my opinion really means nothing here. CHAIRWOMAN: 5 or 6% of gross? MR. TSUNIS: The capital you have invested in it. CHAIRWOMAN: Excuse me, I didn't hear that. MR. TSUNLS: The gross. CHAIRWOMAN: 5% of gross. MR. TSUNIS: I think we are also, it's a little different here Madam Chairman, this is not a straight real estate deal where you put your money down. The owners work in here so there's also their sweat equity to contend with. They can go and be a chef at another restaurant or be a manager of another restaurant and bring in a paycheck so I think what you have to factor in what I think you have to factor into your anatyMs is what their sweat equity is worth too and one final comment before I sit down. The last time we were here we introduced people who talked about what type of establishment this has been and this has been for many, many years and I think and you are allowed to use your own analysis and personal opinions on this [ think you've prohably Page 119 of 128 C~V/O~N: Fm go~ag to c:c/~ yo:a o~f ~i~t ~eza beca~¢se we "rear ev~oze eqmally I~R~ TSarS: ~se attorney for ~is fmTily resiam~an~ will sit do~2 MR. TS-~[S: Fd be del!~ied Ic C[~VfO}~N: is there ~yor~e else in {lo audi~ce ~o wo~d apesificaliy like to ad.ess 2~m~E~ GOEH~GE~: Co-ed ~ ~usi ad&~ess t~e pubI~c? ~ s~c~e]y aplo~ze time and [ will read 'ice ~r~scn-c,: from ti~is na~icu!as po!r; on ~d i do apols~ze tc the Board for serge., but {iseaily goes to the appropnace- BOA~ SEC~TARY KOWALSK]: ?isase nse ~e ~m{ke. San you s~ae yc'm~ name? !v[R. SO~ENBORN: My com~rss go '~o reasonable rca ofrefs_r~ %ut he,ars you get tlcsre wha'~ l faint< has -seen ~ored is ih~s applic~: leash% satisaed the legal :equlr~er;-s of a use variance so tAat ':here are m~y oilier issues before yea gel to reasonable race ot~rsi~m. [ wc rld like the eppo~nhy to address ~s~. Fo: example: BOARD SECRETARY KQVfALSKE Excuse me cosld you please s~atc vv 37 na~neq MR. SONNENBORN': Monroe Sonnenbom. i have a itomc eqnic}t I've c whet. ibr naa:i} 23 years diagollaHy across ~'om [i~e resia~alR 2m an anemey penmllied }c pracr:ce {p New York l~/hat really tronhles ina here is we*~e stsScing SOK of at Cna ve~ end cf CiTe srocsss. The creSed, rials the hold{ag ofdecisk n in helen cemese~ vs. ZBA a copy olFwlich is S*aded to a memo which i win s~fomit and sy the way ina case lisa!fin cites Fowns ~v. les ~ovcrnn~g use vananccs {n paragraph '~. Fcc ho}etna 3~-tlat case ~s thai r: variance will ne': bc granted ~o someone who purchascc property with prior notice os restidons. Here at leas~ one or,he pincin~es v/oied aC and was closely associated with the restaurant for a suostantiai ee~oc prior ~o ?~rchasi2s k. lhe Ndnc~ als were fi_us ce~airly awm~e that the ~'esta~s,r~2: was ~oca~e6 in an area Cleat was zone{ residen(i& before tP~cy 7 arclcase! Page {28 cf 128 Page 121 January 18, 2005 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Headn9 it: That limitation was ~so wi~out doubt reflected in ~e reduced p~ch~e price ~at ~ey have to pay for ~e resta~t ~e ret~ef ~at was app~ently intended m be conf~ed by section 243 w~ch is where you find the 15% ~d 30% exp~sio~ w~ch by ~e way ~e not as offi~t, ~ey ~e at~e d~s~efion of~e Zo~ug Bo~d. But ~at scion of~e zo~ng law was enacted for ~-~m~s such ~ ~ose on ~e No~ Road who w~e subsequ~fly offered by a ch~g~ in ~e zo~g law ~W~ch opposed l~its on ~eir ex,sting operations. Con~ to ~e appl~c~ts prior r~res~tafions to ~s bo~d, I do not believe ~at ~ere has ev~ been a ch~ge ~ ~e zo~ng for ~s prop~y. There h~ nev~ be~ ~ upzo~ng. It was ~ways res~d~fi~ p~od stop going back to ~e be~g of t~e. I believe k w~ ~ways on residential ~d ~n ~y event ~t is ce~n ~at ~e present own~s have nev~ been affect~ by ~y ch~ge ~n ~e zo~g prop~. ~ ~d~fion Jn ~s case ~e h~ already be~ ~ exp~s~o~ of ~e ~.d p~ztted by section 100-243 ~n 1984 the resta~¢s o~ obta~ned pe~xss~on to ~n~e~e the nonco~o~g resta~t use by exp~ng ~e bulling by 350 sq. ~. ~om 2231 sq ~ to 258 sq. ~. Accor~ng to the present application the s~ze of~e existing b~I~g Js 2860 sq. ~. w~ch ~n~cates ~at since ~984 ~ ~fion~ 279 sq. ~. h~ app~e~y been added JlIeg~y t~ ~e b~ld~ng w~out ~e ap~ov~ of ~e zo~g au~ofi~. My ~ess ~s ~at wh~ ~e was a fire ~n 1989 when Lhey re-built ~e resta~t ~ere was self help to ~e ~e oft~s 279 sq. ff. ~ any event, ~5% of 2231 sq. ff. is 335 sq. ff so that ~e total pe~tted use of the b~ld]ng a~er a ~5% exp~sion would be 2566'. 30% of 2231 sq. ff. is 669 sq. ff. so ~at ~e tot~ pe~t~ed s~ze b~l~ng aff~ even a 30% exp~s~on the m~um allowed by ~e law wo~d be 2900 sq. ~. CHA~WO~N: I'm gong to have to stop you because we've had a nmb~ of bergs on ~s ~d it simply would not be f~r to ~ ~e rest of~e people ~ ~e audimce. ~s he~g was adve~tsed ~d has re~ly strictly been limited to- MR. SO~ENBORN: This goes to the - before you even get to reasonable rate of ream - you've got ~ appficafion that ~s basically beyond ~e contemplation of~e law ~d the law that this is under at the most would have allowed a 30% exp~sion, this restaur~t at 28~0 sq. ~. wh~e you ~e dealing w]~ a m~]m~ of 2900 sq. ff. me~s the vew most that you coffid ~t Cnem by the way ora use variance ~der the sta~te ]s ~ additional 40'. Moreover to get that pe~ssion for the 30% exp~s~on, they would have to satis~ all the m~Jmum - they could not exceed the maximum allowable lot coverage. They would have to comply with all other setback and area requirements and they would be subject to a variety ofremediadon measures and there really addressing is you know to talk about the financial impact it comes very late in the day. The point is that this application whidh requests a 1418 exp~sion of the resta~t ~om 2860' to 4278 sq. R. is a request to exp~d the restaur~t by approximately 50%. That's illegal on it's Gee because the section under which this whole matter would be governed I00-243 does not allow any expansion ~eater th~ 30% ~d ~is nonconDo~ing use has already had ~ exp~sion of nearly that maximum 30%. CHAIRWOMAN: Sir, I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying or agreeing. The point is that we have had testimony ve~ simil~ to what you have given at the other heahngs. This heahng was specifically adveaised ~d the legal notice was Dven specific~ly limited it to Page 121 of 128 ?age 122 Januan7 '~6, 2©63 8authe[d Tawn Boar~ of Appea~s Regdar MacSema ~ub]~o Hear~% infestation on the fin~al re~ at the request of ire Tow~ A~mmey, Now to re-open ~. SON~EN~OP~N: Wi~ ~ due respee% I don~ r~emb~- these ~ts M2~, SON]XTENBORN: Yes and hn ienxxs of¢~ng rogeff~er ~e expansion ~ai ~s resta~m~ h~ ~ready had a~d seeing what a 30% expansion would mem~, I sat h on the ~wo p~or he~ngs hgdsi~p h% impo~:anI f~g as a ma~ of law the app!~c~2 does2% even gel ~-~ere smd 2one of ~hese ~en'~s re my ~_owledge c~iy they w~en% ~ade &~ng ~-c o~' homings flgJ l a~end~ ~d in t~s ofreasonable rate of retozn ~ ~ ~d~stm~d it, ~J~'ds needing ~_~t even ~tees a profit but they could ~v~ real es~mt~ vanes in So~ho]d sell t~s pzepe:%~ for resid~tiM use m rice extra% that yc~; ~e ioo~ng her reasonable rate of return on a ~usnzzess. [f you took ~ 5% rote of rotan 02 a S50~800 hnves~& h% like S2500 because ~ey h~ve a $250~000 mortgage. So whg they ~e bzs[cily sauna as ~ mzders~m:d i~ [s ~hey m'e ~fJ!ed 1o ~ive. Moreover the tin.cig fnfo~mtion thg's been srSomfeed as [ '~_d~stmzd fi g least uF 'm now has not been ce~fied by an indep~den: C3A w~o% audked dna books moreover as [ may ye:7 well have be~:~ salm~es fi~a¢ were ~aid for fire p~clp[es Therefore ~a~ w~zfld a g~ear deal of the p:oit Even when you get m za-ze ofreTmm, they cozld sell ¢ize proper~ m~<e our we~] gven whats l~app~ed to real es¢ale vahes h Sou~mld and the zeqzdrement of tko Fales is that they demonstrate by compete:% fnancid evidence what Izei: rate of return is. Tko burden is or them and as ! u2derstg2d h. there are new many ex~s¢nng holes in what has bee:o presented bur my poht ~s a lot broader of [~at which is you cank ~mt some¢h[ng th~;: isn't ~lowed by ]aw mud before you even gei to the {ssue of return the ap7 hcamt has to sg:~s~- wMous other standards. ] am no~ a zoning atzomey. Th~s is not what i do wkh m]' Hfe and beczuse of my concern aborn owning a home ar_d hav~ng the neighbo~mod change i xnde¢ook to do some research and what was stunning and what was smnn:mg m me w-as the presenigtJon that !as been governing law is in the oest of circumstances no'[ as of r/~tt but al the discre,mn of the zoning authority you get a 30% expm:sion we re basically there and ~ don't Lncw why that hasn*t come up because i have st~dhg as a homeowner in the neiDiaorhood i dfd unde~ake to t~w m ssce~ain what the legal stand,ds m'e whfch you i~ow there ~e other th{rigs that you required to consider for exsmp!e ifs impo~ant that the applicant could penn!ssib!y conduct ifs proposed bus,ness ora large bar or saloon elsewhere 2n Souihold Town. ICs vet~ {mpongnr in zonmg structu:e if the towu allows this propose somewhere else then there fs somewhere else thru: there ~s less teas. n .c grant attse varmnce. [n gdditiom y ~u are also required to look at the nef~_borhood in which this ousiness is befng conducted_ You sxe recurred to balmzce the recuested use vmd~mce agafnst tke fi&hts of the ex{sting homeowners {n a m~mer that 2s fair accords substantial justice. On this point it is fmpoTanr that mmzy of the s.~ least 50 or 6~ Page '~22 of I28 Page 123 January 18, 2083 Southoid Town Beard of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing homeowners on Kennys Road and many more on Leighton Drive, Lake Drive area, Sound¼ew Ave. and the Horton's Lane area has extensively renovated their homes in reliance of the residential character of the neighborhood and the limited size of t~ke nonconform'mg restaurant. Fif~&, the Board is also reqtfired by the rules that affect the character of the neighborhood and the: healtht safety, and welfare of the commun'~ty and since so many people have spoken about this, ~ Pm really not going to dwell on k, but you are required to take notice of the fact that many residents engage ~x recreational activities such a bildng, joggSng, and wMking. The roads there are narrow and not well lit. CHAIRWOMAN: Sir l'm going to have to - ali of the previous testimony - we've bad much test'rmony Eom the neSghbors who have expressed concerns about the character of the neighborhood and whn've addressed those concerns. All of that is on the record. We sknply can't go back and re-open it up to that again we don't even have the legal authority. The legal notice is very clear. I apprecSate your concerns, but the legal notice specifically says and we are acting on our attorney's advice and we are going to follow it to l'zmit this to the financial datm That is the purpose o£hh~s heating. MR. SONNENBORN: You don't think you can take notice for example there had been a great deal made of the desire of the restaurant to work with the commu~ty and the whole h/story of what happened Mth the proposed restricted covenant. You feel that's outside the scope of this? CHAIRWOMAN: That's on the record now. That's all in the record. Everytt~ng that - all the prior heatings, all the concerns that the residents have expressed in the past. Tt~ey are all in the record fight now. It's not a question of us taking a took at them - we are taldng a look at them° MR. SONNENBORN: But what's not in the record is there has been an exchange of proposals and I don't know that it's in the record that for example the response to the communities request to limit the number of bar seats what they are asking is to go from 10 to 24. CHAIRWOMAN: Yes we have all that all in the record. Yes we do. Mr. Sonnenborn stood up the last time and said he wanted restricted covenants discussed. He said he wanted to gather all atturneys and discuss these covenants. Everybody submitted them and tiao board hals done nothing aboLtt it. MR. SONNENBORN: I don't think you have in the record what the response was. MEMBER ORLANDO: I don't think parties have agreed to any C & R's. MR. SONNENBORN: It's revealing because the notion is yon'ye been presented with a request in the form that this is really a family restaurant and then when the community responded and said okay let's discuss this what they were visited with was a request lbr a bar stool increase of I40% closing times on Friday and Saturday of 2am which is hardly consistent with a family restaurant. Closing times Monday through Thursday of lam so all I'm trying to say is that while a great deal has been presented about the desire to mn a family restaurant, that's not really what's Page 123 of 128 Southoid Town 8oerd cf Appeals Ragu!ar Meetin¢ Public Hearing goLng on k~e a~d for~ve me ~fh% ~ d~e record I ce~M~y w-~t~ stop, but you ~ow th~'~ been ~o oppo¢~ h seems to me to put ff~e resuhs o~*~se d~sc-~s~ons i2 ~e record as C~;~WOMAN: Mr. Ts~Zs coMd yo~ - MR. TSL%IS: t'd ILkep~iss~on ~o submit dba - MR. TS~IS: On Dec~ber 5~, via Fed Zx, we s~t 6 copies olive covens,as ~d resticdons she for eve~ bo~d m~b~, you ~aou~d have a copy of that. They we L%n~atted ~n %op~* a~d ~*~e w~e 10 C&R% ~ey spoke shout exterior ii~s~g, ho~s of opergion, p~king lot s~pes, ~dscaping, ~icloyee pgldng, ihmi{ation of delive[es, so'~dpzeof i~AC. filters exhausts for pot~i~ cooEng odo~s, Iimi~ng ~le amot~; of d;~sz seats, and bm~ seats. m%o~t of aquae footage - C~WO~N: ~We have iag on ~ecozd. Vfas ~ere a ~ieen ~esponse by yon, Ms~ Moore? MS. MOO~: My ~ow is that he did not send h to me. ~ fonnd ouC ~-o=: one offths pzop~ owa~s in reviewing the ~le ~at it had been s~bmifted to ~te Zor~g Boss& ~ l-~i I ac~!y had subbed:ed our proposed oov~n~ts dkectly to [dm g Pd~n mhd Radl~: ~[f~ a copy gohzg you so ~sat you wo~d ~ow wi~at it was thg we were s~ding ;o h~. Usafo~ately [ have been ~ver: the company dsat! - CHARWOMAN: Yo~ pzoposed covenar/:s came afaer his? MS. MOORE: [ don't ~ow ~?~en his came dale wise because again ! wasn't given a copy somewhaf late~. BOA~ SECRETARY KOWALSKz T~_ezr ~e3ez ;s ~,atea De~embe~ 5 m~ yo~ ~ecter ~ da2ed Nove~aer 20~L MS. ~OORE: Thank you. My letter ~s November and his ~s Dece:%ben Bu" nothhsg canna MEMBER ORLANDO: That's whaC ~ae comment was at the tgst hemdng thg Ooe~inger had suggested we send C~R's to each otln~ ~d work h ou'c come ~o a~eement CAR's. MS. ~OORE: Exactly and we sent ours to hhm but he didn'~ respond '~o our C~R's_ he ~n executed dr-aft C?cR's 2i~7 the boa:cl t( look at igno:mg anything ~he community ~m~sht bc concerned w~th. C~iAiRWO~AN: We have cop{es of bode. Page 124 of 128 Page 125 January 16, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing MR. TSUNIS: Not only is it your decision and I submitted it to you and qu~te ffantdy you can ignore m'me and you are permitted to put all reasonable conditions on any grant so you can come up whth one set that's more ~ntrusive but I did have a conversation with councql on proposed [imitations and C&R's and I can tell you that the approved, I believe it's gding to be futile by her own arm/ss[on'she doesn't tt~nk she can get all 9 of her clients to agree on a set of C&R's some are more reasonable than others. She has nine clients ail of which want nothing in the'~r backyards so there was a conversation had I've deduced that it's futile to confim~e, but the board is the one that the C&R's were submitted to - she now has a copy, I'd be happy to g~ve her another copy. CHAIRWOMAN: We just checked the rrfinutes, I th/nk we left it the way Mr. Orlando recalls that the chairman said we would not discuss it at another meeting because we specifically closed the heating that night. MR. TSUNIS: Let me state th~s, whatever C&R's tiffs beard finds fMr and necessary to protect the character and nature of the commmfity are ones that this ape[cant will agree to. CHAIRWOMAN: Okay, board members, Mr. Orlando, any questions? MEMBER ORLANDO: No questions. MS. MOORE: I just have one point with respect to Ross's restaurant t do want to have a chance to get from the town records the price that was paid for Ross's. I do recall it was a high price, but just knowing fight now what the price is, ~n all fairness with the applicant I do need to provide it in writing and I just don't want to be precluded from sending it to you. R's a matter of public record. MR. TSUN~S: Perhaps yon'Il have ample opportunity to get that. This client has undergone, our first meeting was in Febmaw. k has been three applications in 11 months - there is a public notice requirement it's not even permitted to be submitted. It's clearly not something that can be part of the record, but as reasonable as a person as I am, let's close the record and let's leave an exception for her to submit it this week but I don't want to keep this open please it's simply not fair after 3 hearings in 11 months. CHAIRWOMAN: Will you be able to get your infon~nation to us within tbe next week, Mr. Tsunis? MR. TSUNIS: Yes much of it is in our memorandum of law which was submitted but I will give yon a bullet sheet earIy next week. CHAIRWOMAN: Okay so what we'll do it we'll dose the hearing tonight to verbatim testimony and then close it a week £rom Monday. Are you disallowing any further comments by anyone even those pertaining to economic hardship? Page 125 of 128 Seuthoid Town Board of Appeals P, eguiar Meeting PuNic ~eadng CHAIRWOMAN: ,No we're net d~sallov/mg them, F~ just W/ma to ge'; [ Es'ce when a~eys, ~onEsy, J~u~ 27a? ls ti~e mnyo~e e~se 5~ Ere a~axence who wom~ Hke to quest~oa of re~onaNe rate off fin~c!~ re,am on lie prop~ [ have a question. Could you olease cl~d~ who2 ~t ~s thai w~E occ~ on ~ ..... - [~ 1~ C~WOMAN: %~afs die date ~at b¢~ af;omeys have to get thek s~omissioP~ ~ by. BO~ SECreTlY KOWALSI~: Excuse me but we have to have ev~y speaker ~ve n~xe beffore they spca<. PA~C~ POPPEr ~ ~usi w~ied to lmow what was happe~fpg on fmram~ 27 · ~y ~'e no; acing to ~ow who you MS. POPPEr Ifs just that there ~e so mmzy ~eop[e here from Kermyq Bead% ff~W wou~d like to ~aow what is going C~OM~N: is ~ere mnyone e~se w~o wou~d E(e to - yo,~ n~ne sb? CONSTANT~E GEORGEOPOLZS: Const~qtNe GeorgeopoHs 5330N. SeaDdve. MrstiyFd like to respond to a numb~ of cormz~ents that Mr. Tsm;s made. He mentioned fiat his o~[y seeks a modest expulsion, that's decei,Ang, ~d he also said tha; [is ciie:% only war, cs expansiom but yet 5re dedm-adon that he &'ailed which his die:%s si~ed and submiff:ed to the bo~d reflect an expansion of bm' sears re 24. ~ was :here this afternoon and I courted 9 bar sea~s. %is is not a modest or miid expmnsmn, k's a yeW si~ilcant exoansion because 24 bm' rneans tho: if there was i standing patron for eve;T b~ sear. you'll have 48 people fi: there and there ~e 2 stranding patrons co ev~y bar sea:: you'll have 72 people in :here~ it's a ex, ansion. Pm simply responding to Mr. Tsm~is's ccmme:?is. I did not hear this evening, something that we ail hem-d in FebraaW and November and that is that k's his cUenm only re continue to operam and I cuore a ~om~N style restavrant but m~.~oe {rat's becavse style restauraxt, i5 you will F eh%it me Madam Chalrlad> i need ] mmme ~c exolma :o you where tko ~nds are going to come fi-om lc: :his expansion. CHAIRWOMAN: What do memn where the f:mds ~e going to come from? MR. GEORGEOPOLIS: In te~ns of realizing a profit in te~s of the economic necessity. te~s of the profit and ;ess and I suggcsi rear i have a:o answer ~o7 that. ~ need 1 minu:e, lvc:y Saturday and Sunday fl-om early Spring tc lam Autumn we see the nori teac filled with visitors and mororcycies a~d when one goes :o Ciaudios_ one sees me:~ak!n~, al the youmg 2eople drip. lng: motorcycles, eveubody having a ~d time and f believe the ~ntentfon here is to ~nto that manet Thafs where the money Js going to come fi:om to pay fir these ex:oansions Page 126 of'[28 Psg~ '~ 27 January '~6, 2003 Southold Town Board of Appeals Regular Meeting Public Hearing They can't they are losing money now and they are going to expand it and they arc going to pay for those expansions and they are going to realize a profit f~om a family style restaurant on this basis - I don't believe it. CHAIRWOMAN:, Thank you sir, we,ye got to really limit it, one more time to what was -~ advertised, the financial data regarding a reasonable rate of return. It has to be limited to that, we've gone way off base now. LESLIE WEISMANN: My name is Leslie Weismann, I'm a resident of Soundview Ave. in Southold, I'm a professor of architecture and planning and IOta a consultant to the department of justice in Washington D.C. in matters dealing with 504 compliance of Americans with disability act. I have nothing prepared, but in si~ing in the audience and listening as both a property owner and neighbor, I'd like to know how many of my neighbors are here in disagreement of granting this expansion. How many people are here? I'm gding to ad&ess some of the comments that deal with rate of return. CHAIRWOMAN: Madam, I'm going to cut yo~ off right now. I've tried to be very patient about this. This is what this hearing's about. Both of the attorneys recognize this going in. We are going astray. MS. WEISMANN: May I address- CHAIRWOMAN: All of these comments on board we talked about the degree of expansion. We have tistened to many of your concerns, we are aware of those concerns. We are trying to do our job very diligently. MS. WEISMANN: It's difficult for aa architect to listen to an individual talk about what is more Southold-l/ke in order to create a better rate of retom. The type of restaurant that is there at the moment actually looks remarkably like the massing and the footprints of an awful lot of small dwellings in that area that have been there for a very long time. I really doubt that any of us in the neighborhood would object to creating a better appearance to the facility a facelift of some sort, additional compliance with ADA does not require an increasing number of square footsge they already have a zero threshold on the building. They don't need ramps. No one is going to disztgree ttntt ii' it u}ztkes a bcttel r~ttc of rctulin l't~; [~ x cry ¢]eccat person, tile people who oxxn this restaurant live here, they are respected. It is very difficult to be put in contention with someone who is not a disagreeable individual who has a right in fact to do a reasonable business, but when that business puts hardship on our community, then there is not a reasonable answer in order to proceed on the same basis that the applicant has applied for. If you lxy to create a greater rate of remm through expanding the number of seats and so on which is the argument, for every seat there is a parking code. We have a V~ acre parcel. CHAIRWOMAN: The board is aware of everything you are saying. We have the statistics, we have the site plan, we have the recommendations from the Planning Board. We are aware of these things. We are aware of what you are saying. Page 127 of 128 P~e 128 Southoid Town Board eAppeaJs Regular Meeting Public HeaNn~ MS. WSIS~=%%: Then let me conclude by simply sa~ng ~hat ~s informed bo~d. and [ l~zow you ~re who ~e ~pow~ed to act office good of file com~m~hf sho,~ffd I kope consid ~ ~:e feelk%s of fits co~m'~'~, i wonk t~k mhy more finest it because you've ~ked me not to m:d you've he~d more ff~ enou~. 2m s'~e the :facts are fairly cle~~ m you ~ mhd they ~e v~ cle~ to us-~ well mvd I ~ope fi:at ff~is bom~d will have ~e co-~age ~hd Ge raspcxsiNii%~ ~Id ¢~ical ma~dae to act Mth i:~ts~y wi~Jn tZe p~iew of ff~e law a~d to use re~ozEte jud~enr a people who rqsresem us, You a~e our boa-d md yo~ rqcres~:l onr cc~m~ and we hope ~at you ~ll ~ geed reason reeo~ze ffxat om- fi~us ~ prop~ c~ [bing m a resid~fial neighborhood taus{ be respected mzd protected aid not put in contention wi~-: tlze d~ts of one [ndbidual who made ~ economfic decision a 2~ber of years ago, ~n~& you. CH~RWO~N: FH :m~e a motion c]os~g ff~e ~eafizzg to v~aafim ~zd we a*e gob~g to ga ~J_ aY~S~ PLEASE SEE M~To~ES FOR P~SOLUTiON Page 128 of 128