HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-08/27/2024 PH 1
1 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK
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TOWN BOARD
4 REGULAR BOARD MEETING
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Southold, New York
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August 27 , 2024
9 7 : 00 P .M .
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15 B E F 0 R E :
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17 ALBERT KRUPSKI JR, SUPERVISOR
18 LOUISA P . EVANS , JUSTICE
19 JILL DOHERTY, COUNCILWOMAN
20 BRIAN 0 . MEALY, COUNCILMAN
21 GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN
22 ANNE H . SMITH, COUNCILWOMAN
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AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 2
1 INDEX TO TESTIMONY
2
3 Chapter 280 - Accessory Structures 3- 11
4 Sanitary Flow Credits , Hard Corners , LLC . 11-16
5 Public Comments 17- 68
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AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 3
1 PUBLIC HEARINGS
2 CHAPTER 280 - ACCESSORY STRUCTURES
3 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : The
4 purpose of tonight ' s public hearing is
5 to consider certain amendments to Town
6 Code Chapter 280 Accessory Structures ,
7 to allow accessory structures located in
8 the rear yard or waterfront front yard,
9 which are rendered partially or
10 completely in a side yard due to
11 additions or alterations to a
12 single- family dwelling to be exempt from
13 rear yard requirement . The full text of
14 the proposed law is available for review
15 in the Town Clerk ' s office and the
16 Town ' s website . In the folder here, I
17 have a correspondence from the Suffolk
18 County Planning Commission deeming this
19 a matter of local determination . I have
20 a Certification of Notice that was sent
21 to adjacent jurisdictions . I have an
22 Affidavit of Publication of the legal
23 notice, along with a copy of the ad that
24 was placed in the Suffolk Times . And I
25 have a letter here from the Chairman of
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 4
1 the Planning Board supporting this
2 action or this proposed amendment
3 rather . I have a memo from our LWRP
4 Coordinator recommending this action is
5 consistent with the LWRP . I have a
6 SEQRA determination here, classifying
7 this as a Type II action and not subject
8 to review .
9 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Mr .
10 DeChance, is all the paperwork in order?
11 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE :
12 Everything is in order .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
14 you . All right, seeing that, is there
15 anyone who ' d like to speak in favor or
16 against the proposed change?
17 LESLIE WEISMAN : Good evening,
18 Board Members . Leslie Wiseman, Town
19 Southold, and I ' m Chair of the Southold
20 Towns Zoning Board of Appeals . I ' m here
21 tonight to read into the record a letter
22 of support for this application from all
23 the Members of the Board of Appeals as
24 follows . The Zoning Board of Appeals
25 would like to thank the Town Board for
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 5
1 considering the proposed code change,
2 which was unanimously so -- which we
3 unanimously support . For the benefit of
4 the public, I ' d like to explain why .
5 Currently the code does not permit
6 accessory structures , like detached
7 garages and sheds to be located in a
8 side yard . So when a property owner
9 adds an addition to their house , like a
10 front porch or a rear yard deck, if that
11 addition technically relocates a legally
12 existing accessory structure partially
13 or completely in a side yard, the
14 Building Department is required to issue
15 a Notice of Disapproval . The property
16 owner then has to appeal to the ZBA with
17 an application for a variance, with a
18 fee and then a Public Hearing must be
19 held . Let me just for the public
20 benefit use my hands to show what this
21 really means . What I am talking about
22 is this . Here is your house . Okay .
23 Here is your garage in the backyard and
24 you put on a deck . And all of a sudden,
25 the deck goes like this . And it can be
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 6
1 a completely legal deck . And suddenly
2 your garage is here and not here
3 anymore , you need to come before the
4 Board of Appeals . And if you ' re on
5 waterfront property, and you ' re
6 conforming accessory structures in your
7 front yard, the same thing is true . If
8 you put a front porch, here is your
9 garage . Here is the front of your
10 house . If you put a front porch on, and
11 suddenly partially or completely in a
12 side yard . What this basically is doing
13 is -- and I do want to say that these
14 applications are far more common than
15 you would actually think there to be .
16 They ' re taking up time on the ZBA ' s very
17 busy calendar Public Hearings . Thereby
18 delays for other applications and
19 burdening property owners with
20 unanticipated fees for variance relief
21 that we ' re not likely included in their
22 home improvement budgets . For these
23 reasons , the members of the Board of
24 Appeals brought the idea of the proposed
25 Code ' s change to your attention . As you
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 7
1 know, the draft code that ' s now before
2 you tonight was discussed by the Code
3 Committee, the Chief Building Inspector,
4 the Assistant Town Attorney, the Town
5 Attorney, and me , and reviewed by all of
6 the members of the ZBA before this final
7 version, which you have in front of me
8 tonight was placed for Public Hearing .
9 In summary, we see no downside to this
10 exemption for ZBA -- exemption and the
11 ZBA enthusiastically supports this code
12 change as written . And we urge the
13 members of the Town Board to do the same
14 this evening . Thank you .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
16 you, Leslie . Would anyone else like to
17 speak to -- yes , sir .
18 NICHOLAS : Good evening . My name
19 is Nicholas ( inaudible ) professional
20 engineer . I do a lot of business with
21 the Zoning Board and the Southold Town .
22 I am in total agreement with what Leslie
23 said . This is very straightforward
24 request for some of the variances
25 required . R40 is not in the list, which
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 8
1 is a very common zoning for out here .
2 The R40 zoning I think is in a different
3 section than 280-13 or 280-17 . It
4 refers back . So as long as that is
5 covered because the R40 needs to be
6 included in this possibility . And the
7 other thing is , I noticed this
8 possibility that it refers to a
9 single- family residence . In the long
10 term, I am wondering if that should be
11 updated to just be a residential
12 structure because the future could mean
13 that there ' d be more multifamily
14 residences located in the township .
15 That would cause this additional zoning
16 action if it wasn ' t set up as a
17 single- family . It just covers the
18 basis . Just a couple of thoughts . One
19 more comment, which is not specific to
20 this one, but is also related to zoning,
21 is there is a front yard setback issue
22 that is very, very similar for dealing
23 with the average setback over the course
24 of a block . And if you build a simple
25 side porch on a house that ' s already
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 9
1 existing in -- a very common place as
2 New Suffolk where everybody ' s located on
3 the street , you get bounced over to
4 Zoning, yet you ' re not really changing
5 the front yard . And there already is a
6 clause that deals with it , but they
7 still send you to Zoning . So maybe that
8 could be addressed in a similar manner .
9 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
10 you . Those are good suggestions . The
11 first one though is there ' s some head
12 nodding here from ZBA chair --
13 LESLIE WEISMAN : Yeah, yeah . No
14 that ' s most common .
15 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : It ' s
16 not listed in it ' s -- not listed in
17 here . It just starts with R80 .
18 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : It
19 would appear to me to be a typo .
20 Certainly the R40 District is one that
21 this would occur most likely in . And we
22 can we can alter it to include the R40
23 district .
24 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Okay .
25 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : We can
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 10
1 change that . We can make that amendment
2 tonight .
3 LESLIE WEISMAN : It wasn ' t listed
4 because there ' s an asterisk that sends
5 you to that part of the code that covers
6 it .
7 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : As long
8 as it ' s covered . We can clarify it .
9 Let ' s clarify it and add it in .
10 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : The
11 other -- the other point about the
12 single- family residents , I think that
13 would be a little more that we would
14 have to consider . Thank you . Is there
15 anyone else that would like to speak to
16 this application? Rather this change?
17 Anyone? There is someone on Zoom. I
18 don ' t see any hands up . So seeing none,
19 I would entertain a motion to close the
20 hearing?
21 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I ' ll make
22 that motion .
23 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Second .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
25 favor?
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 11
1 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
2 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
3 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
4 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
5 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
6 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
8 SANITARY FLOW CREDITS , HARD
9 CORNERS , LLC .
10 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : The
11 purpose of tonight ' s second Public
12 Hearing is to consider the request of
13 Hard Corners , LLC to allow for the
14 transfer of seven sanitary flow credits
15 to the property known as the Suffolk
16 County Tax Map number listed . Located
17 245 Love Lane , Mattituck, New York . In
18 the Mattituck School District, on land
19 designated as Hamlet Business District,
20 to allow for the creation of 12
21 accessory affordable apartments at the
22 aforementioned property . The full text
23 of the proposed law is available for
24 review at the Town Clerk ' s Office and on
25 the Town ' s website . In the folder here,
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 12
1 I have affidavits of the notice of
2 posting of the sign . Affidavit of proof
3 of mailing the notices to the adjacent
4 property owners . Certified mailing
5 receipts , and green card signed
6 receipts . I have a copy of the Legal
7 Notice . I have a copy of the Affidavit
8 of a copy of the Town ' s posting, signed
9 by our Town Clerk, Denis Noncarrow . I
10 have a copy of the resolution setting
11 the Public Hearing . I have a letter
12 from the Chairman of the Planning Board
13 supporting this action . I have a copy
14 of a letter from our LWRP Coordinator
15 saying that this is consistent with the
16 LWRP . Yes . It says that it ' s
17 consistent . Sorry . Small typing . I
18 have comments from our Chief Building
19 Inspector, Mike Verity . Certification
20 for transfer of sanitary flow credits .
21 Stating that this is allowable in the HB
22 District . That ' s what I got .
23 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
24 you, Councilman . Mr . DeChance, is all
25 the paperwork in order?
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 13
1 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE :
2 Everything ' s in order .
3 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
4 you . Would anyone like to speak in
5 favor or against this sanitary flow
6 credit transfer?
7 GAIL WICKHAM : Good evening, Gail
8 Wickham of Wickham, Bressler & Geasa,
9 Mattituck . I ' m representing the
10 applicant . I ' d like to just very
11 briefly go through the reasons we ask
12 you to pass this resolution . This
13 project is falls within the definition
14 of an eligible project under Chapter
15 117 , which is this transfer of sanitary
16 flow credit legislation . It is eligible
17 because it proposes uses , which are
18 allowed in the Hamlet Business Zone .
19 Supplemented by a predominance of
20 affordable housing apartments ,
21 specifically 12 . It also falls squarely
22 within the specific goals of Chapter 117
23 in terms of promoting and "a broad range
24 of housing and business opportunities to
25 support a socio-economically diverse
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 14
1 community . " And that ' s how the building
2 redevelopment was designed . It
3 redevelopes an outdated building in the
4 heart of the Love Lane Business
5 District, with retail facilities , as
6 well as -- dry retail facilities by the
7 way, as well as , affordable units . The
8 Planning Board supports as you just
9 mentioned the proposal . And we ask that
10 the Town Board tonight approve the
11 transfer . Assign a transferring parcel
12 designation and support the applicants
13 Health Department application for an
14 amendment to its current approval of the
15 property . We also -- I also just want
16 to mention, in your resolution, if you
17 would amend the name of the applicant to
18 Hard Corner Partners , LLC . Just take
19 the "S " off Corners , and add the word,
20 " Partners , " to conform with the title on
21 the property . Thank you .
22 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
23 you . Would anyone else like to comment
24 on this proposal ?
25 ERIC MCCLURE : Good evening, Eric
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 15
1 McClure . I ' m a resident of Mattituck,
2 and I just wanted to speak in favor of
3 the proposal . I ' ve been resident
4 Mattituck for 20 plus years now, and
5 that property has been empty for at
6 least half that time, if not more . It ' s
7 as ideal location in the entire Town, I
8 think, for this type of project . It ' s
9 been -- we don ' t have enough train
10 service for it to really qualify as
11 transit oriented development , but maybe
12 we ' ll change that at the Transportation
13 Commission someday would prevail with
14 the MTA on that, but it ' s a block from
15 the bus stops . It ' s within easy walking
16 distance of a couple of supermarkets .
17 It ' s really just the ideal location .
18 Certainly in Mattituck for that kind of
19 creating for Affordable Housing . I know
20 the Town has had deficits on trying to
21 create ownership opportunities for
22 people, but we also need rental
23 apartments . I assume these are going to
24 be rentals . But having opportunities
25 for workforce housing, for young people
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 16
1 just starting out, who can ' t yet afford
2 a down payment to purchase something . I
3 think it ' s a great location for that .
4 So I just wanted to give my wholehearted
5 support to the proposal to transfer the
6 flow credits . Thank you .
7 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
8 you, Eric . Anyone else like to comment?
9 (No Response ) .
10 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Someone
11 on Zoom, I don ' t see any hands up . Is
12 there a motion to close?
13 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Make a
14 motion to close the Public Hearing .
15 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Second .
16 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
17 favor?
18 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
19 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
20 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
21 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
22 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
23 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
24 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
25 PUBLIC COMMENTS
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 17
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : So
2 that ' s the Regular Agenda and the Public
3 Hearings . Does anyone like to address
4 the Board on any matter?
5 ABIGAIL FIELD : Yes . So, hi . I ' m
6 Abigail Field . I live in Cutchogue, and
7 I ' m here tonight about the pickleball
8 courts that the Town is building in East
9 Marion in Old School House Park . I ' m
10 here tonight wearing two hats . First ,
11 I ' m here as an attorney for my clients ,
12 who live next to the park . But I ' m also
13 here as a constituent and somebody who
14 happens to live next to a school .
15 Because there has been no public process
16 in this creation of these pickleball
17 courts . Besides announcing RFP ' s and
18 accepting bids , no notices were given to
19 adjacent property owners . No public
20 meeting was held to discuss the impacts
21 of the pickleball on neighbors . My
22 clients found out in late July . You
23 guys asked for your RFP last Fall . I
24 find this horrifying . If you -- I sent
25 everybody -- as soon as I got involved,
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 18
1 lots of information about how impactful
2 pickleball courts are . Check your
3 e-mails . There ' s lots of links . The
4 noise is really a big deal . It ' s a big
5 deal because it ' s a high pitch . It ' s a
6 big deal because it travels really far .
7 Even the pickleball -- there ' s a niche
8 industry of pickleball sound experts .
9 There ' s a niche industry of pickleball
10 design companies . Like, it ' s a really
11 big deal to build these in
12 neighborhoods . Even their fans and
13 their proponents say don ' t build them in
14 neighborhoods . Put them far from
15 houses . This Town, a few -- I think it
16 was a few years ago , adopted a noise
17 ordinance because it understood that
18 your quality of life can be greatly
19 impacted by noises near you . And in
20 fact , it says , and this is a quote from
21 your statute, " it is the public policy
22 and findings of the Town Board that
23 every person is entitled to noise levels
24 that are not detrimental to life,
25 health, and the enjoyment of his or her
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 19
1 property . The provisions and
2 prohibitions here and after enacted are
3 in pursuance of this policy, and these
4 are for protecting and promoting the
5 public health, comfort , convenience,
6 peace, safety, welfare , and prosperity
7 of the Town of Southold and its
8 inhabitants . " Well , I can tell you,
9 when you read your noise code, right, it
10 prohibits all of the noise that goes
11 with this pickleball court, except that
12 there ' s an exception for recreational
13 activities . But if you did it on
14 decibels , this court would violate it
15 left and right . If you did it on impact
16 of people ' s quality of life, it would
17 violate it left and right , it would
18 violate it left and right . I went to
19 your Peconic pickleball court area . I
20 left a leaflet at all the neighbors
21 houses . Very straightforward language .
22 I am interested in knowing about your
23 experience of living next to a
24 pickleball court . I didn ' t say, does it
25 stink? Does it make you crazy? I went
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 20
1 really straight because I wanted honest
2 answers . I got two people who called me
3 back who live on Carol Avenue . There is
4 no structures or barriers . One guy
5 says , I hear it every all day, all day .
6 Even if I close my windows . It doesn ' t
7 stop . It makes me crazy . Someone else
8 on Carol Avenue at a diagonal said, I
9 can ' t have my windows open . I hear it
10 all the time . If I close my windows ,
11 it ' s better, and if I turn on the air
12 conditioning, I no longer hear it . The
13 pickleball starts at daylight and it
14 ends at daylight . And the guy told me
15 that the tennis lights , if they leave
16 the lights on at the tennis courts in
17 Peconic, it goes to 9 : 00 or more . I
18 talked to other neighbors who live at
19 angles and roughly the same distance,
20 and they have trees and they have houses
21 and other structures in between . And
22 they ' re like, yeah, we can hear it .
23 It ' s not a big deal . So the impact
24 depends on where the houses are in
25 relations to the courts , but the impacts
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 21
1 are real . You guys have not done
2 studies . You have no idea who is going
3 to get hit by this sound . You don ' t
4 know the traffic . These are really
5 popular . That is not a big parking lot .
6 It ' s already a busy road, 25 , right .
7 Ferry coming through . When we had that
8 lavender park, it was a nightmare for
9 people . You ' re creating an incredibly
10 attractive resource . Peconic has people
11 using it constantly all the time . You
12 may not be legally required to do it
13 through a process because it ' s a park
14 and it ' s a school and property . But as
15 a constituent who lives next to a
16 school , I find that sufficient
17 justification . This is a big deal and
18 should be treated as a big deal . So at
19 this moment in time , we ' re asking you to
20 pause the construction . You guys
21 removed topsoil today . Like this is
22 imminent . Imminent . Pause it . Do some
23 studies . Figure it out . Maybe it ' ll
24 only be a couple of houses that really
25 get hammered and you can put up sound
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 22
1 mitigation . Maybe, I don ' t know, we
2 haven ' t done the research . If you Go
3 ogle sound impacts pickleball , you will
4 find lawsuits . You ' ll find a
5 Massachusetts homeowner who can ' t sell
6 their house . You ' ll find research by a
7 real estate investor and pickleball fan
8 who says it ' s a 10 to 20 percent impact
9 on your property value if you live next
10 door to a pickleball court, negative
11 impact . I mean, I ' m just saying this is
12 big stuff . Not small stuff . And you
13 really should have looked at it before
14 you did it . And so it ' s not too late .
15 All that ' s happened is removing topsoil .
16 You can stop it . And you can look at
17 it, and you can decide , have we
18 sufficiently mitigated the impact? So
19 we are living up to the purpose of our
20 noise ordinance, our stated public
21 policy, of not wrecking people ' s quality
22 of life with noise . I ' ve given you way
23 more detail and tons of links in the
24 letters that I have e-mailed you . I
25 encourage you to take the time to really
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 23
1 read it . I included resources from
2 pickleball fans , from pro stuff . I
3 mean, but it ' s a lot of information .
4 You cannot possibly properly digest it
5 in a couple of hours and have the
6 construction go forward in good faith .
7 And that ' s -- oh, actually I have one
8 other comment . And it ' s a side comment .
9 When I first raised this issue, I was
10 told, well , your clients cleared Town
11 land illegally . Now, first, my clients
12 who are here tonight and will speak,
13 will tell you that that ' s not true . But
14 even if it was , let ' s say for a second
15 that my clients were horrible people
16 that had violated Town Code by doing
17 something illegal . It ' s a total
18 non-sequitur, it ' s irrelevant . Not only
19 do two wrongs , not make a right , but
20 this is about a pickleball court that
21 impacts an entire neighborhood . And it
22 was just really upsetting for that to be
23 the response . Let ' s have a public
24 policy debate on the merits , right?
25 There ' s so much character assassination
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 24
1 and attacking people personally that
2 happens in political discourse writ
3 large in general . I don ' t expect that
4 from anybody in this room . I expect
5 everybody in this room to take things on
6 the merits . Engage with the reality and
7 the facts , and come to your decisions .
8 You are there to set policy for
9 everybody . I may like it or not like
10 it, but I expect you to do it on the
11 merits and good faith . And with that ,
12 I ' m done . Thank you for your time .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
14 you for your comments , Abigail . I ' ve
15 got a couple of comments , but I ' d like
16 to hear -- no , no . I like to hear from
17 if there ' s anyone else here that would
18 like to speak to this first before I
19 comment .
20 ZINTA SCHNORE : Hi . I have a home
21 on Main Road in East Marion .
22 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : May I
23 ask you to start with your name , please?
24 ZINTA SCHNORE : Sorry . My name is
25 Zinta Schnore . And I have a home in
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 25
1 East Marion next to old schoolhouse
2 park . Since July 24th when I learned of
3 the plan pickleball courts , I felt like
4 someone has kicked me in the gut . I am
5 beyond disappointed by the Town ' s
6 complete disregard for the property
7 owners who will be directly affected .
8 Google pickleball noise and you will see
9 hundreds of results about complaints and
10 lawsuits across Long Island and the
11 country . There are entire Facebook
12 groups dedicated to mitigation and
13 relief of the sound of pickleball .
14 People who live near courts lose their
15 ability to use their own yards or even
16 to open their windows when the weather
17 is nice . There is even evidence that it
18 hurts the value of nearby homes and the
19 anxiety induced by the repetitive high
20 frequency sounds like those of
21 pickleball can lead to health issues .
22 As someone who plays pickleball , if they
23 want to live near three courts , they
24 will say, no . As -- there are
25 recommended guidelines for installation
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 26
1 of pickleball courts , including sound
2 review for courts that are built within
3 a 1 , 000 feet of residential properties .
4 Most sources say that installation
5 should be at a minimum 600 to 800 feet
6 from residents for natural sound
7 dissipation . Less than that , then sound
8 mitigation must be soundly considered .
9 Based on the location of Old Schoolhouse
10 Park, there are over 40 residences
11 within 100 or a 1000 feet . About 18
12 houses at 800 feet and about 15 houses
13 within 600 feet of the site . I have
14 radial maps showing the area if you
15 would like to see them . When canvassing
16 our neighborhood for signatures for our
17 petition, not one person we spoke with
18 had any prior knowledge of the courts .
19 And those living adjacent are to be
20 expected, or as to be expected, are very
21 upset . Here is our petition with 50
22 signatures collect just over the past
23 couple of days . All these people are in
24 favor of the Town pausing construction
25 and doing the due diligence that should
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 27
1 have been done initially . Prior to
2 installation . We have lived happily
3 next to this tennis court since 2017 .
4 But I am assured by neighbors who plays
5 pickleball that the noise from
6 pickleball courts will be unbearable
7 from dawn to dusk . There will be crowds
8 and there will be fights . He doesn ' t
9 want them at Old Schoolhouse park . If
10 these courts are installed as close to
11 our home as planned and without any
12 sound mitigation, we will lose the sound
13 of our yard, the value of our home will
14 suffer and I guarantee I will lose my
15 mental health . I am devastated at the
16 prospect that this last week of Summer
17 is the last week I may be able to enjoy
18 peace of my backyard . I implore you to
19 please halt current construction and
20 conduct the proper sound and traffic
21 reviews before proceeding so the results
22 can be taken into account . Thank you .
23 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
24 you .
25 ZINTA SCHNORE : And I have the
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 28
1 petition .
2 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : You can
3 bring it up . Thank you .
4 PHIL MASTRANGELO : Hello, my name
5 is Phil Mastrangelo , Orient resident .
6 There ' s something called Acoust offense .
7 I ' ve looked into , because I ' ve heard
8 about the issues that are being raised .
9 There ' s something called Acoust offense
10 that work . Acoust offense that ' s a
11 relatively inexpensive solution . And I
12 believe the distance they recommend is
13 500 feet from any residents . Along
14 those lines -- along the lines of noise,
15 which I agree , you know, if it ' s going
16 to disturb everything, it should be
17 looked into . Especially the people that
18 are right there . But is there -- I ' m
19 also speaking to the noise ordinance and
20 that you had mentioned Supervisor
21 Krupski , you had mentioned there ' s going
22 to be -- you ' re looking into banning all
23 outdoor amplified music; is that
24 correct?
25 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Oh, no ,
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 29
1 we ' re not . We ' re looking at other towns
2 of what they ' ve done . Are we
3 considering that for this town .
4 PHIL MASTRANGELO : Are we
5 considering that for this Town?
6 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Can I
7 -- may I just remind you, sir, that this
8 is a comment period . Not a question
9 period . I ' d ask you just to place your
10 comments on the record .
11 PHIL MASTRANGELO : All right . If
12 there is such a chance of that, I would
13 ask you please to keep that in the light
14 of day . That we can all weigh in on
15 that . Thank you .
16 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
17 you . As far as the amplified music
18 goes , that ' s a -- something I attended a
19 Supervisor ' s meeting from Suffolk County
20 and that was topic, was amplified music .
21 And I reported back to the town where
22 other towns , how they were addressing
23 it . So not that we won ' t address that
24 in some fashion at some point . But
25 we ' re not like working on that today .
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 30
1 Just to see if there ' s any other -- from
2 anyone who hasn ' t spoken yet? Thanks .
3 Anyone else?
4 LINDA GOLDSMITH : Good evening . I
5 am Linda Goldsmith . East Marion . Not
6 far from Old Schoolhouse Park . I am the
7 person that is probably being referred
8 to on the internet as being influential
9 enough to have a Town Board put
10 pickleball courts in for me . Thank you .
11 I am not . I didn ' t realize I had that
12 much influence . I would have used it in
13 other ways . Trust me . I will give you
14 quick history . There was a school there
15 at one time . A school , a playground, a
16 bunch of kids , swing sets . When Oyster
17 Pond and East Marion combined, there was
18 a park . It was not a very nice park .
19 It was run down . So when I was on the
20 Board -- so Oyster Ponds , I met with the
21 Town and we leased it to the Town . I
22 was the one that signed the first lease .
23 The Town refurbished it . The tennis
24 courts at one point were facing east and
25 west if you can imagine . New tennis
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 31
1 courts were put in, new basketball
2 court . Things like that . So what
3 happened was this year I went to the
4 park and I looked at the park . And I
5 said wow, this could use a little
6 updating . Some of the playground
7 structures are cracked . So I went -- I
8 think I called -- I don ' t know if I call
9 -- I think I called Tom Stevenson . I
10 said can I come to the meeting? I want
11 to talk to you . Are you still leasing
12 the park? I really want some upgrades .
13 So when we went down to the school , I
14 suggested, for example , maybe pickleball
15 courts . And the ball started to roll
16 from there . And I do want to give you
17 other facts . Pickleball should be an
18 Olympic sport by 2032 . Not going to
19 have a very good Olympic team in the
20 United States if we prohibit practicing
21 and playing . I suppose that we could
22 have asked the Town to put up a Morton
23 building and put indoor pickleball
24 courts , which I think would be even
25 noisier as those balls hit the walls ,
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 32
1 but it ' s neither here nor there . That
2 property could be used for housing .
3 It ' s residential property . And to the
4 north it extends back about three acres
5 of wooded land . And to the west there ' s
6 one house . Then there ' s a empty lot .
7 In the back of that , there ' s more wooded
8 property . Then there is a road -- then
9 there is another house to the east there
10 is an access road, which no matter what
11 happened, whether there ' s courts or not,
12 needed to be refurbished . It was not
13 wide enough to get today ' s emergency
14 equipment through, according to the fire
15 department members I spoke with . The
16 trees were rotten . They were going to
17 fall into the fence during a storm . So
18 that did need to be cleared out . I
19 agree that some sound barriers need to
20 be put along there, but it has to be
21 wide enough for vehicles to get in the
22 back . But I do want to tell you,
23 pickleball , okay there are 13 . 3 million
24 people in the United States playing
25 pickleball . That ' s four and a half
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 33
1 percent of your entire population . The
2 University of Virginia has now made it a
3 club sport , as other colleges have . And
4 they are attempting or they will be
5 making it a varsity sport . There are
6 places in Riverhead where kids play all
7 the time . And I believe Riverhead High
8 School is going to make it a club sport .
9 It ' s sort of like how lacrosse sort of
10 snuck into the North Fork . We don ' t have
11 a pool . So we don ' t have any swim teams .
12 We don ' t have any of that for our youth .
13 And a park is a park . A park is a park .
14 I live across the street from the fire
15 department . You know, I don ' t appreciate
16 getting awoken, but I , you know, at 3 : 00
17 o ' clock in the morning, but that ' s where
18 I chose to buy my house . You know? But I
19 want to tell you the definition of a
20 park . A park is a place -- excuse me, a
21 park is a place . It ' s an enclosed
22 playground . It is an open area found
23 with trees , benches statute . It is used
24 for recreational activities , walking,
25 exercising, cycling, playing, and
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 34
1 athletics . I actually commend you for
2 putting a pickleball courts there
3 because there will be a parking lot .
4 There will be a basketball court and
5 then there will be a tennis court . And
6 there will be a children ' s playground
7 and then there will be a whole bunch of
8 swings sets and then there will be
9 pickleball courts . There are other uses .
10 You can put a soccer field in there and
11 then you will have soccer playing . And
12 no, it won ' t be after dusk . And I don ' t
13 -- I don ' t imagine it will be at dawn .
14 It won ' t be a year-round sport . And Ms .
15 Schnore was incorrect when said no one
16 knew about it . Because you came to my
17 door with a petition and I certainly
18 knew about it . So that ' s all I can say .
19 So thank you very much . I hope you will
20 continue to go with the courts . They ' re
21 important for our kids . They ' re
22 important for our adults . And they ' re
23 important for our community . It is a
24 Town park . It ' s been leased from over --
25 I think we ' re on our third ten year
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 35
1 lease because I was on the Oyster Pond
2 Board for 30 years and been off for the
3 last nine . So I think we ' re going on
4 our second or -- third ten year lease .
5 And I commend you for upgrading the
6 facilities a little further out east .
7 Because there is no Town park from
8 Orient to Peconic . Thank you .
9 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
10 you . Anyone else who hasn ' t spoken yet
11 would like to speak?
12 LAURA FOWTER : Hello . My name is
13 Laura Fowter . I live on the east side
14 -- the west side of the park . And
15 everything has pretty much been said . It
16 is going to be very loud and disruptive .
17 My husband works three , 12-hour shifts a
18 week, an hour away from here . It will be
19 disruptive to our family, to our quality
20 of life . And we see if the Town could
21 consider some noise mitigation . We ' re
22 not looking for it to not be put in, but
23 to have some consideration to your
24 neighbors . I ' ve lived there for 19
25 years . My family has lived there since
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 36
1 1964 . I have been -- I grew up in this
2 Town . And usually when things were done
3 in the park, we considered the neighbors
4 and what was going on and what the cost
5 was . And when the fence went in and
6 needed to be put onto the school ' s
7 property because you didn ' t want to
8 remove any trees , sure , put the fence
9 three feet over . We will maintain that
10 other piece of the property .
11 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
12 you . Would anyone else like to speak?
13 Would anyone else like to speak to the
14 Pickleball issue?
15 TOM STEVENSON : Tom Stevenson,
16 Orient . I spoke two weeks ago . So I
17 don ' t know what else I can really add,
18 but I ' m still in support of using the
19 park for a park . I can ' t tell you how
20 popular pickleball is with our youth . I
21 don ' t know if you realize what kind of
22 impact has really happened with COVID .
23 You know, I mean, serious impacts to
24 these kids . And Greenport High School ,
25 it is so popular, but there ' s no place
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 37
1 to play . These kids -- it ' s indoors , in
2 the Greenport High School . So the rest
3 of the, you know, they can only play
4 during -- if there ' s a club, it is like
5 there ' s tournaments . It ' s part of the
6 curriculum . There ' s talk of it being --
7 you know, it is very popular across the
8 State of New York . There ' s an article
9 in Newsday about interviewing the
10 Section 11 chair about how it would
11 become an actual varsity sport . And my
12 daughter, you know, might work on
13 Greenport High School to see if they can
14 do that or work with the three high
15 schools to be that, but obviously noise
16 mitigation we can we can work on that .
17 But you have a tough decision . I mean,
18 I felt like our process was public .
19 Because you know, none of this was in
20 private meetings . Everything was done
21 in public meetings and I mean, I know,
22 I ' m one who does look at agendas . And
23 pay attention and listen in but and that
24 doesn ' t -- it ' s a park . I don ' t want to
25 see more houses there . Even though the
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 38
1 school district does own it, it ' s the
2 people ' s , you know . It ' s the same to
3 me . The town property directly behind .
4 You know, the interest of integrating,
5 you know, working together . Working as
6 a team. You know, with the town . It
7 seems to work . I ' m sure things can be
8 fixed, you know, solved . So hopefully
9 we can work together and not just give
10 in to, you know -- sure, neighbors that
11 surround a park are important, but
12 they ' re also next to a park . That ' s it .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
14 you . Anyone else who hasn ' t spoken,
15 like to speak?
16 KEVIN WEBSTER : Good evening .
17 Kevin Webster . Mr . Supervisor and the
18 Town Board . I am an East Marion
19 resident for over 26 years . Oyster
20 Ponds graduate, current Southold Town
21 assessor in my 19th year, ex-chief and
22 current member of the East Marion Fire
23 Department , along with my son . Also an
24 Oyster Pond ' s graduate , Greenport High
25 School graduate, 17th generation out
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 39
1 here , and also plays pickleball .
2 Regarding this park, I played Little
3 League there many years ago and every
4 other sport there over the last 48
5 years , and coached Little League there .
6 This park already has basketball ,
7 tennis , soccer . A jungle gym. It ' s
8 located on the Main Road with parking
9 and events . I have been playing
10 racquetball sports for the past 45
11 years , table tennis , tennis , paddle,
12 pickleball . I played rec tournaments
13 and professional tournaments in Florida,
14 Connecticut and New York . I have met a
15 great people through this sport . It has
16 many health and social benefits . The
17 cardio benefits are at a very high
18 level . I ' m always sweating after
19 playing for a few hours , and I ' m sorry
20 to get so personal about that . This
21 game is a mix of athletic and mental
22 skill . You can play at a beginner, what
23 I call hit-and-giggle level , up to a
24 very, very competitive level , which I
25 might play at . I played father-son
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 40
1 tournaments , which has been a blast .
2 Great memories from it . Other towns in
3 Suffolk County have added public courts
4 over the last few years that are a big
5 hit, Southampton Town, Huntington,
6 Babylon, Brookhaven . All the different
7 Towns . If you stop by Peconic, you will
8 see many people playing, laughing and
9 joking . I film our games and send out
10 videos of us for fun and educational
11 purposes . We all have a great time
12 going over them in a group text . And
13 the tournaments I have played is very
14 ( inaudible ) and also a fun time . The
15 Town has also hosted tournaments of
16 Peconic for the Southold Historical
17 Society and other organizations , which
18 have been a great success in
19 fundraising . In tournaments of rec
20 play, when you get four people at the
21 same level , no matter what the level ,
22 beginner or advance , they ' re having a
23 great time . Nobody ' s cursing or
24 drinking or doing anything nefarious .
25 There ' s no play after dark . There ' s no
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 41
1 lights there . The season ends normally
2 when the weather turns . Similar to
3 tennis . You cannot play successfully in
4 wind or real cold weather . It ' s
5 seasonal . It ' s not 12 months out of the
6 year . These courts will be in the back
7 behind the tennis , basketball and jungle
8 gym and swings . You ' re talking about
9 three courts , a max of 12 people playing
10 at one time and three balls being hit .
11 Hardly Grand Central Station of people
12 and noise . Most of what you will hear
13 will be people laughing, joking and
14 having a great time . Fun . Sounds of
15 fun similar to a tennis match,
16 basketball game, soccer match, or
17 baseball game , or kids playing in the
18 playground . I think it ' s a great
19 addition to the park, and I 100% support
20 it for the East End of our town . We
21 will get residents of our town playing .
22 I do not see anyone from the Town of
23 Riverhead or Southampton coming out here
24 to play . Right now, we have six courts
25 for over 18 , 000 total parcels and about
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 42
1 14 , 000 housing units . That ' s one court
2 for every 2 , 300 housing units . Three
3 more courts I feel is a great addition
4 to the town of Southold . Thank you .
5 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Wait a
6 second, Kevin, from East Marion . I do,
7 because you seem to have quite a bit of
8 pickleball experience . Do you have any
9 experience with courts being screened to
10 prevent carrying noise?
11 KEVIN WEBSTER : Well , screened --
12 not really . I ' m trying to think about
13 how -- I have no problem. I heard
14 people speaking about noise mitigation .
15 Again, I didn ' t speak to that . That ' s
16 the thing -- that ' s not my, you know,
17 specialty, but if there ' s gonna be some
18 something put up for that it ' s not gonna
19 affect the play on the court . So I
20 don ' t have a problem with that, but I am
21 trying to think having played all over,
22 Boca Raton Del Ray, St . Augustine . You
23 name it , Jersey . I mean, I think that ' s
24 something that Phil was talking about
25 with some kind of process for that . But
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 43
1 I haven ' t seen any . SYS built some
2 great courts , Hampton West, down Red
3 Creek . They just have the courts there,
4 but I ' m not sure exactly . I ' d have to
5 look into it as far as screening or
6 something like that for the sound .
7 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : But
8 just thought I ' d ask you seem to take
9 more than a casual approach --
10 KEVIN WEBSTER : Yeah . Yeah . I
11 think the Rocky Point built some . They
12 built some new ones in Center Moriches .
13 And they ' ve all been a big hit . But I
14 appreciate what everybody has said and I
15 just wanted to speak about the sport
16 itself and my experiences in this sport .
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
18 you . Anyone else who hasn ' t spoken yet,
19 who would like to speak on the
20 pickleball matter?
21 (No Response ) .
22 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I ' d
23 just like to say that certainly, we all
24 received the e-mails . I read all the
25 e-mails that Abigail sent about the
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 44
1 different screening . Spoke to DPW .
2 They were more than willing to plant
3 trees where they could for screening to
4 -- certainly trees , I think, are very
5 effective . But there is also that
6 netting material . And honestly, if it ' s
7 a big problem, I don ' t think the town
8 should be reluctant to provide some sort
9 of screening in this case , because it ' s
10 an odd thing that no one ever heard of .
11 I never heard of 10 years ago . And It
12 does encourage people to get outside and
13 be active . So I think that working with
14 -- I think the Town Board ' s in agreement
15 working with DPW into any kind of --
16 besides streets , any other kind of
17 screening that would help to mitigate
18 the sound would be very reasonable . Go
19 ahead, Abigail . No , go ahead .
20 ABIGAIL FIELD : So first, Abigail
21 Field again, Cutchogue . First of all ,
22 thank you for organizing the problem and
23 being interested in mitigation . Again,
24 I suggest you can ' t really wrap your
25 hands around what ' s necessary without
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 45
1 doing a little studies . So again, I
2 encourage you to pause . Note, we aren ' t
3 saying you must move it . Everybody else
4 is like , "Yay, pickleball , " fine . Yay
5 pickleball . But be a good neighbor, and
6 try to figure out how you can actually
7 be a good neighbor on it . And, you
8 know, it ' s the residential -- I mean, a
9 lot of the other courts that get built
10 they cannot all be with neighbors if
11 there ' s no mitigation . Do the little
12 Googling and you ' ll see this is actually
13 really a problem without mitigation . So
14 thank you for that . The reason I wanted
15 to stand up before is because East
16 Hampton -- you mentioned other towns .
17 East Hampton put a moratorium on
18 residences converting their tennis
19 courts to Pickleball because they ' re the
20 rich enough in East Hampton to have
21 private tennis courts all the time , I
22 guess . But it was a disaster for
23 everybody when they started converting
24 to pickleball . Then the Town of East
25 Hampton was gonna put a pickleball court
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 46
1 in a public park like this one . That ' s
2 nestled among residences . It ' s called
3 Tea something or other . And then the
4 town realized how big a deal it was for
5 the residences and they didn ' t do it,
6 right . I mean, I mentioned that just
7 because you were talking about being
8 interested in what other towns do . That
9 was East Hampton, right . And again,
10 this isn ' t anti-Pickleball , right? It ' s
11 about be a good neighbor, and respect
12 the sound impacts . So thank you for
13 your time . I realize this was all off
14 topic .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : No,
16 it ' s a topic . It ' s not off topic . It ' s
17 a topic . So I think we ' ll make a real
18 effort to mitigate the noise from the
19 neighbors on both sides , because it ' s
20 important .
21 ABIGAIL FIELD : It ' s also , since
22 they ' re going to run north-south, it ' s
23 not just these guys . You really need to
24 know how far back it ' s going to go . The
25 Carroll Avenue guys , the Peconic,
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 47
1 demonstrate that . You really have to
2 sort of have a clue about your impacts
3 if you ' re going to do that .
4 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Agreed .
5 Sir? Please .
6 UNKNOWN SPEAKER : ( Inaudible ) I
7 live directly across the street from the
8 park . With all of my doors and windows
9 open, I can hear the sound vividly in my
10 kitchen, which is three rooms away from
11 the front of my house . And I ' m up on a
12 hill , extremely far away from that park .
13 It just resonates through sort of like a
14 funnel effect by the trees surrounding
15 that park . It needs to be addressed .
16 Not with just maybe a tree or two . It
17 needs to be severely sectioned off,
18 funneled back into the woods where it
19 doesn ' t affect anybody .
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : What
21 sounds do you hear now?
22 UNKNOWN SPEAKER : You hear the
23 whacking and the ball clapper . It
24 really sounds like they ' re playing on my
25 front porch . Sounds -- I can hear a
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 48
1 wedding from Brecknaw Hall . I can hear
2 them announce the bride and groom, on to
3 the dance floor . I ' ve made complaints .
4 I ' ve had police up there . They ' ve heard
5 it . That ' s in the record here in the
6 town . The sound travel is uniquely in
7 East America . And when they play across
8 the street and there ' s no traffic, you
9 can literally hear every word . Not to
10 mention the pat, pat, pat . And when they
11 play Pickleball on the tennis courts , I
12 can hear it in my kitchen . Like they ' re
13 playing on my front lawn . Now none of
14 that was taken in conservation when
15 these were appointed . We understand
16 that the park is for everyone . But
17 everyone pays taxes at the same rate .
18 You can ' t just make some of the people
19 happy without addressing everyone who ' s
20 paying taxes in the park . We understand
21 people want to come and play . That ' s not
22 an issue . We want everybody to feel
23 comfortable with these Pickleball courts
24 going in, and we ask that you do that as
25 quickly as possible .
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 49
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you .
3 UNKNOWN SPEAKER : Thank you .
4 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Go
5 ahead .
6 ZINTA SCHNORE : Zinta Schnore from
7 East Marion again . I just want to say
8 that throwing up fences is not the
9 answer . You really need to do a sound
10 study . Even Pickleball Association of
11 America says to do sound studies . You
12 actually place the Pickleball courts in
13 the appropriate location and you
14 mitigate the sound appropriately .
15 Because a lot of these barriers don ' t
16 work . It reverberates off the barrier
17 and then out into further away . You look
18 at all kinds of things online about
19 diffraction of sound over barriers . And
20 I really feel like you must do a sound
21 study, please . There ' s no other way
22 forward . Or else you know what ' s going
23 to happen is you ' re going to put in
24 mitigation . You ' re going to spend money
25 on the mitigation . It ' s not going to
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 50
1 work, and you ' re going to have
2 complaints . And it ' s not just us . It ' s
3 all the people on Stars and Kaylees that
4 we ' ve talked to . So I beg you to
5 postpone what is happening there now and
6 make sure you ' re putting them in the
7 right location in the park . If you ' re
8 going to keep them in the park and that
9 the mitigation will actually work . And
10 it ' s not just some fence thrown up,
11 please .
12 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Agreed .
13 If we ' re going to make that effort , it
14 should be effective . All right , would
15 anyone else like to address the Board on
16 any on Pickleball related topic?
17 CYRUS GATLAND : I ' ve got something
18 on Pickleball .
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Oh,
20 come right up .
21 CYRUS GATLAND : My name is Cyrus
22 Gatland . I live in East Marion . I have
23 a bedroom right next to the parking lot .
24 And the parking lot is pretty much
25 called the tennis court, where people
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 51
1 will occasionally play Pickleball , is on
2 the parking lot pretty much . Right next
3 to it . And when people do come over to
4 the tennis court to play Pickleball , you
5 can basically just -- it ' s a horrible
6 racket . You can just hear it like
7 anywhere in the house pretty much . Just
8 when they play it . And you can just
9 hear it with the windows closed too . I
10 don ' t imagine that moving it further
11 back, you know, because if it ' s already
12 this bad when it ' s like that close to
13 the house, if you move it back further
14 back, I don ' t think look any better .
15 You know, look into mitigation or -- you
16 know, yeah . Thank you .
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
18 right . Thank you . Anyone else on
19 Pickleball or Non-Pickleball then?
20 ERIC MCCLURE : So, when Abigail
21 started to -- Eric McClure, Westview
22 Drive in Mattituck . When Abigail
23 started talking about Pickleball , I did
24 a quick Google . And the first thing that
25 came up about Pickleball noise was that
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 52
1 the whacks are loud, they ' ve been
2 registered to reach 85 decibels , though
3 games usually peak at about 70 decibels ,
4 or about as noise is a vacuum cleaner or
5 freeway . And I referenced that because
6 early August, I made a code complaint
7 about Strong ' s Water Club and the music
8 that night . And I actually sent a link
9 in with the complaint to a recording I
10 made where they actually had 79 decibels
11 at one point during a song that they
12 were playing, which is , as you guys
13 know, the Code is -- 65 is the limit for
14 noise . So it ' s clear that they ' re not
15 even trying at this point to mitigate
16 the noise this Summer in any way there .
17 They had a concert the other night . Oh,
18 they were over 70 at times on the
19 decibel meter . So I just certainly
20 understand the concerns that people have
21 about noise . Maybe we can get a group
22 discount with Strong ' s on accused
23 offense if that ' s the way that we
24 decided to go on this . But I also wanted
25 to mention that there was an article in
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 53
1 the New York Times a week ago about the
2 Forest Hills Stadium in Queens , which
3 still hosts the occasional tennis event,
4 but now is mostly a concert venue . And
5 the ongoing back and forth between
6 residents , the corporation that owns the
7 buildings near the tennis center, and
8 the issues with noise, concert noise .
9 And we actually attended a concert at
10 Forest Hill Stadium back in May . And I
11 was amazed that we didn ' t really hear
12 that -- we got there, entered the
13 stadium during the opening act . And you
14 couldn ' t even hear it at all until we
15 were kind of partially up the stairs of
16 the stadium because they ' ve taken some
17 noise mitigation measures there to the
18 casual attendee that really made a
19 difference . And in the article , in the
20 Times last week, it noted that they have
21 spent about $ 1 . 5 million on noise
22 mitigation at the Forest Hill Stadium,
23 which clearly at Strong ' s , they have not
24 made any effort to mitigate the noise at
25 all . And I will also point out that at
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 54
1 Forest Hills , they noted in the article
2 that they have 37 concerts this year,
3 which is less than half of the live
4 music events at Strong ' s Water Club . So
5 just one last thing, I did get a call
6 from a gentleman with Code Enforcement
7 yesterday, who told me that they only
8 work 8 : 00 to 4 : 00 Monday through Friday,
9 so that if I have any music concerns , I
10 should call the police , which I don ' t
11 really want to trouble the police with
12 having to come out . And you know, I
13 have called a couple of times when there
14 was noise, sort of after hours after the
15 music had stopped . I don ' t want to
16 burden the police with having to do that
17 really . It ' s a non-emergency . But and
18 in the past -- I know the Town purchased
19 decimal meters of the police several
20 years ago . I ' ve still never seen an
21 officer show up with one or they say
22 they ' re not trained or a sergeant has to
23 do it . So that doesn ' t really seem like
24 a solution . I ' m gonna keep making the
25 code complaints when it seems
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 55
1 appropriate to do so . And I do hope,
2 Supervisor Krupski , that we ' re not gonna
3 wait too long to address the noise
4 issue . I know that we ' ve got all the
5 zoning and stuff going on . And I know
6 you are good to your word saying that
7 the Town will address that, so I
8 appreciate that . And thanks , and good
9 evening .
10 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
11 you, Eric . And yeah, noise of amplified
12 music is just one of the many noise
13 complaints that we receive . So we ' re
14 going to try to do it comprehensively,
15 and it ' s not easy with a meter . And
16 that ' s why I mentioned, I was meeting
17 with the other towns . This is a hot
18 topic for every town, is noise
19 complaints . And whether it ' s the Good
20 Humor truck or which is real , or amplify
21 music or pickleball or really anything
22 else . Construction, we got a lot of
23 complaints about noise . Traffic . So we
24 do take that seriously . That is -- we
25 are doing the Zoning update, which is
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 56
1 complicated as it is . So we will -- but
2 we do take the quality of life
3 complaints very seriously . And if you
4 have a real problem, don ' t hesitate to
5 call the police .
6 ERIC MCCLURE : Will do . Thank you .
7 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : And we
8 are doing interviews to hire a part-time
9 code enforcement . So we can have
10 somebody on the weekends .
11 ERIC MCCLURE : Great . That would
12 be really helpful to have somebody out
13 there when the concerts are happening .
14 This Friday night, I know the band
15 that ' s -- and the calendar is one that ' s
16 been very loud in the past . So if
17 anybody wants to go check it out, please
18 do . And lastly, I ' ll just say, I was
19 glad to be able to speak in favor of
20 something tonight . I really like that
21 Love Lane project . So it ' s good to not
22 just be at nimbee about noise to these
23 beings . Thank you .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
25 you for your comments . Either way,
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 57
1 thank you .
2 All right . Anyone else like to
3 address the Board?
4 TOM STEVENSON : Tom Stevenson,
5 Orient, again . I was listening to the
6 Work Session . So I appreciate the Zoom.
7 I love it . I ' m able to sort of, you
8 know, when I can listen in, when it ' s
9 not making too much noise on my own,
10 like angle grinding or welding, you or
11 cutting stuff up, or driving tractors ,
12 or shooting shotguns . Things like that .
13 They ' re all loud . The Broad Meadows
14 project , is there a design or that ' s for
15 designing it?
16 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I ' ve
17 seen designs over the years . I think
18 one of the concerns is that this project
19 has been in the works for so long . That
20 sea level rise probably would
21 necessitate them reviewing those
22 elevations on the water flow devices .
23 And so they -- I think they have to take
24 that very seriously . With sea level and
25 groundwater rise also, they have to look
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 58
1 at those flow devices .
2 TOM STEVENSON : Just flapper
3 valves ?
4 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : It ' s a
5 flapper valve , but I ' ve seen those
6 things put in and then they ' re under
7 water . And then they plug up because
8 they ' re under water, they can ' t be
9 maintained . And they put in too low .
10 So with sea level rise , we have to make
11 those adjustments . So hopefully they
12 will . And Ducks Unlimited is involved
13 with that, John Sepinowski with the
14 town .
15 TOM STEVENSON : Yeah, I remember
16 meeting like five years ago about it .
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I
18 remember meeting 15 years ago on it .
19 TOM STEVENSON : We ' re not closing
20 down River Road?
21 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Only
22 Mother Nature can do that .
23 TOM STEVENSON : Well , it does , but
24 I know, and will do that . Okay . So can
25 I find that somewhere?
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 59
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : No, of
2 course . Call the office .
3 TOM STEVENSON : I will , sure .
4 Drone purchase, I don ' t know what we
5 need a $ 16 , 000 drone for, but whatever .
6 Sidewalks , I mean, they ' re bad in
7 Orient . I can tell you that . They ' re
8 bad or non-existent in places . Is there
9 a capital plan for sidewalks in Southold
10 Town, or is it just based on --
11 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : No,
12 there is . It ' s not based on who
13 complains . It ' s actually a plan in
14 place that Danny Goodwin from the
15 Highway Department has . And he has the
16 inventory . The State is of the opinion
17 that any sidewalk on the State road is
18 the Town ' s responsibility to clear and
19 maintain and replace, which is , thank
20 you, New York State .
21 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We have
22 to get their permission to trim the
23 trees .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : But we
25 are replacing Town owned sidewalks at a
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 60
1 rate that we ' re trying to afford . As
2 you can see we ' re bonding to borrow
3 money, $250 , 000 here . $250 , 000 on
4 Fishers Island .
5 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : So
6 we -- and we ' ve been doing that for the
7 past couple of years . We did a -- we
8 had John Sep do an inventory and it will
9 cost us , it ' s gonna cost us millions and
10 millions of dollars . So we decided to
11 handle it budget wise and bond $500 a
12 year so we can at least work on it . And
13 we ' re working on it in conjunction with
14 the roads and the drainage as well .
15 TOM STEVENSON : Downs Farm
16 Preserve, the TP Memorial , I don ' t know
17 what to think of that . I mean, housing,
18 I know the Pipe ' s Cove , the house was
19 knocked down in there, which I was like,
20 why are we knocking down houses ? I mean,
21 in Orient, we got a guy who was buying
22 houses and knocking them down and
23 returning it to meadows , but the Town
24 should be --
25 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : That
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 61
1 sills there, you mean, I think?
2 TOM STEVENSON : Yeah .
3 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Yeah,
4 that was in great shape . I ' m sure it
5 was rugged . So you get to that point
6 where it ' s , it was pretty, that was
7 pretty low to the ground too . So there
8 was a lot of water in the basement too .
9 But if you look at housing on parkland,
10 there ' s a lot of housing on County
11 Parkland . All over the county . And the
12 closest one here , of course, is in
13 Greenport at Inlet Pond, the Royal
14 Aitlam House there . That ' s got a county
15 resident living in it .
16 TOM STEVENSON : Well , I mean, Downs
17 Farm, it would make sense to have
18 someone , maybe someone could have eyes
19 on the place too .
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well ,
21 it is a security feature also . That ' s a
22 benefit .
23 TOM STEVENSON : And the people that
24 are working there need a place to live .
25 Then there was Laurel Park, and it ' s not
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 62
1 CPF, and people are sitting on the grass
2 in the park, and that ' s a nightmare, or
3 they ' re like walking through the woods .
4 I ' m like, that ' s what you ' re supposed to
5 be doing in a park . Enough said .
6 Crosswalks , I think you should look at
7 the whole Town if you ' re gonna ask the
8 State . Look at the whole Town because
9 we don ' t have a lot out east , but maybe
10 there ' s a couple spots like, you know,
11 Village Lane and Young ' s right there
12 with the big tree . Like that ' s a very
13 dangerous spot . You know there they
14 should -- it should be sort of
15 comprehensive . If you can get them out
16 here if still --
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : No, the
18 DOT was a big help at Mattituck . We met
19 with them in November or December of
20 last year . And the engineers did the
21 study and they ' re going to make the
22 improvements on the State road . So
23 really, it ' s up to the traffic
24 engineers . You can ' t have elected
25 officials making those kind of
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 63
1 decisions .
2 TOM STEVENSON : Oh, I know . I
3 can ' t wait for the construction of the
4 roundabout at Greenport .
5 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : That ' ll
6 be a big help there .
7 TOM STEVENSON : Year and a half or
8 something . And the agrathors and
9 resorts , obviously, I mean, I already --
10 you guys know, I think that ' s terrible
11 for Southold . Wrong spot . Doesn ' t make
12 any sense . Leads to sprawl . So we ' re
13 going to be sending you guys a little
14 help with what you can do , it wouldn ' t
15 be good for us . So anyway, thank you .
16 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thanks ,
17 Tom.
18 LINDA GOLDSMITH : Thank you for
19 listening to all the Pickleball comments
20 from Khan . And I had assumed that the
21 Town was pretty smart and you were going
22 to work on noise abatement . Otherwise , I
23 would have brought it up when we were
24 down at the park . And thank you for
25 clearing that out . There are kids who
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 64
1 play back there, and there may be a time
2 you do have to get an ambulance back
3 there, and they ' re not those little tiny
4 ones like they used to be . They ' re
5 bigger . Two other things I wanted to
6 talk about . I saw the Broad Meadows on
7 the agenda . And a few years ago, we had
8 the meeting with John Sepinowski . I was
9 involved because I owned property on the
10 on the -- across the Main Road from
11 Broad Meadows . And I would really wish
12 my family could be kept in the loop
13 regarding that . Because what happens in
14 Broad Meadows really affects us . Our
15 property is directly across the street
16 from Broad Meadows . We have Broad
17 Meadows , Main Road, and then my
18 property . At one point , several years
19 ago, I did have it appraised . And to and
20 behold, we found out it was quite
21 valuable . It ' s residential , R-40 . I
22 know, surprise, surprise . And can be
23 built upon according to FEMA standards .
24 There was a potato barn there at one
25 point . So, you know, but what is
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 65
1 happening is that we are actually the
2 recipients of the overflow from Broad
3 Meadows . There ' s a culvert that goes
4 underneath Old Main Road into my jib
5 property . We haven ' t since, and God,
6 I ' m gonna date myself, but there has
7 been no flooding during the hurricanes
8 since Hurricane Carol in 1954 of the Old
9 Main Road . Our family goes in, not me,
10 but some of the younger members male, go
11 in, and they clean the culvert . That
12 flow with some broad meadows into my
13 property . They do it themselves . They
14 don ' t ask the town to do it . But that
15 culvert is big help in keeping the rail
16 and Main Road from flooding . So I ' d
17 actually want to see Lilly to see if
18 possibly the town wanted to either
19 purchase or do a half -- this is what
20 I ' m thinking, half donation, half
21 purchase with CPF funds . Because five
22 of us own it now, but as we die off, all
23 of us have more kids . And eventually 10
24 people are going to own it . And, you
25 know, quite honestly, I ' m trying to pay
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 66
1 in taxes to something I can ' t use . And,
2 you know, I ' ve been approached because
3 I ' m the recipient of the tax bills every
4 year . Get to collect that from the
5 family . About building a barn where the
6 old barn was . The person wanting to buy
7 my share of the property, which is 200 ,
8 he has five acres -- actually has a 10
9 acre farm, and he wanted to put the barn
10 back up . And that is definitely a
11 possibility according to the appraisal .
12 And appraisal wasn ' t horribly, horribly
13 egregious . It was like I don ' t know
14 $ 750 , 000 or something to that effect .
15 But anyway whatever you ' re doing in
16 Broad Meadows please know that we would
17 like to not have the property . We
18 really don ' t want to build on it, but I
19 don ' t know what our heirs are gonna want
20 to do . They ' re not gonna want to keep
21 something that they can ' t use and you
22 have to pay for . So -- and I also , you
23 know, do want to be kept in the loop
24 because as I said the fact that our
25 property that ' s who acres in there keeps
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 67
1 a lot of the water from Broad Meadows
2 from flooding Main Road and Old Main
3 Road, you know, it ' s -- I think a
4 service to the town . So I ' m not
5 expecting a big thank you unless she ' s
6 just want to applaud . And I when -- and
7 we did meet with John Sepinowski , this
8 when they were you did -- it was years
9 ago . And things like that, but you know
10 with COVID and other things that happens
11 in, and you know, having the last few
12 years , I haven ' t been up to -- I haven ' t
13 been up to snuff, but I ' m, I ' ll get
14 back . So thank you .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
16 you . And I ' ll mention that to him
17 tomorrow about your property and whether
18 it ' s being considered . Like I
19 mentioned, with sea level rise, I think
20 a lot of these wetland restoration
21 projects have to be re-looked at to make
22 sure the elevations are right . And I
23 don ' t know, yours could be used as part
24 of a coastal resiliency benefit or not .
25 I don ' t know .
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 68
1 LINDA GOLDSMITH : I ' m not sure . I
2 mean, I of course read the -- Phyllis
3 did the appraisal , Atkinson . And you
4 know of course, it ' s somewhere up with
5 Lilly upstairs there on the other rail
6 thing, but the one fact that it ' s
7 irrefutable is there -- is a culvert
8 underneath . And we are absorbing water
9 from Broad Meadows and we are cleaning
10 that culvert when it gets clogged . You
11 know on our own . And we ' re not asking
12 anyone to do it for us , but it is a
13 service . So that it prevents a lot of
14 flooding on the Main Road . Thank you .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
16 you, Linda .
17 Anyone else like to address the
18 Board?
19 (No Response ) .
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Seeing
21 none , I ' ll take a motion to adjourn?
22 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I ' ll make
23 a motion to adjourn .
24 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Second .
25 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 69
1 favor?
2 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
3 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
4 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
5 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
6 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
7 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
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9 (Whereupon, the meeting concluded
10 at this time . )
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AUGUST 27, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 70
1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
2
3 I , Jessica DiLallo, a Notary Public
4 for and within the State of New York,
5 do hereby certify :
6 THAT , the within transcript is a
7 true record of said Board Meeting .
8 I further certify that I am not
9 related either by blood or marriage to
10 any of the parties to this action; and
11 that I am in no way interested in the
12 outcome of this matter .
13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
14 set my hand this day, August 27 , 2024 .
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