HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-05/02/2002 HEARBOARD OF APPEALS
TOWN OF SOUTtlOLD
THURSDAY, MAY 2. 2002
SPECIAL MEETING
Present were:
Absent were:
Gerard P.Goehringer, Chaim~an
Lydia A. Tortorm Member
Vincent Orlando, Member
Linda Kowalski, Board Secretary
George Homing, Member
Ruth D. Oliva, Member
PUBLIC HEARINGS
7:10 P.M. Application No. 5071 - Walter Teresko and E. McGrath. ( Continuation fi*om April 18th calendar
fbr PB comments.)
Chairman Goehringer: Mrs. Wickham, we are ready.
Mrs. Wickham: Good Evening. I met with the Plamfing Board, as you can see, and we discuss the
arrangement. I sent you a lettcr yesterday that indicated their position as to the roadways have been cleared
up. The issue they had about the other lot to the North has been cleared up. Their position whether they
would recommend a reduction in lot size remains the same in that the Planning Board does not do that.
They have reiterated that position. They made the notion at the work session as I did at the last hearing that
there is no increase in density here this is nearly a request, while it is to a very small lot, it is a request that
would attempt reconcile to the property to the weight it was historically used. Mr. Teresko and his family
understood that it should have been backed to1954.1 don't have anything else to a ad I think we introduced
discussion last time. If you have any questions that remain unanswered, I would like to try to answer them.
Chairman: I am just going to go back to the rear of the property again and visualize it as l did before. We
will see how that develops. We will probably not make a decision tonight. No. I we do not have a full
board and No. 2 I want to re-investigate the property.
Ms. Wickham: O.K. If Mr. Teresko is here, he can ansxver any questions.
Chairman: Vincent, do you have any questions'?
Vincent Orlando: No, I do not.
Chairman: Lydia?
Member Tortora: You agree with a plamfing board to combine lot one driveways with a common easement'?
Ms. Wickham: Yes.
Member Tortora: No, I don't have any questions.
Ms. Wickbam: Lot one would have one cmnmon access to New Suffolk Road. which would include the
right-of:way to the other property to the north. Lot 2 would continue to have its own access on New
Suffolk Road. That was my letter to you and to the Planning Board.
Chairman: Ms. Wickham I know we discussed this before, the zoning district line splits the R-40 from the
AC is that correct?
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Ms. Wickham: Ihat is correct.
( hairman: That is approximately 75 feet northeast of the property on the proposed plan?
Ms. Wickham: That is correct. That zoning district line in doesn't really coincide with very much of
auything except perhaps the depth of the limited business property of Mr. Beebe to the south, that is limited
businesses zone.
Chairman: This does not share any of that business'?
Ms. Wicld~am: No. I think 1 gave you a copy of the zoning map the last time and it's just that little piece that
Mr. Beebe owns that has that designation.
Chairman: Thank you. Please don't leave until we close this hearing, is there anyone else who would like to
speak in thvor or against this application'? Seeing no hands, I make a motion to close the hearing and
reserving a decision until later. SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION
7:17 p.m. Application No. 5084 - 640 Church Street. (continuation from April 18 for additional
information: (a) applicant and P. B. reviews; (b) discussion by applicant with neighbors about concerns.
Chairman Goehringer: Mr. McCarthy how are you tonight?
Mr. McCarthy: Good Evening. To update circumstances since the last public hearing and the suggestion of
the board on April 23rd. We met with the membership of the first Baptist Church of Cutchogue at their
church in Cutchogue. I think we had a very productive meeting just addressing issues that the congregation
had. I believe you're in receipt of a letter that is dated April 30th on the various points of that letter. I would
be happy to give a copy to the members of the church just so they can acknowledge or atleast have a copy
of what is in the file. Some of things that were spoken about were similar to the issues that were brought up
at the less public hearing. Which was traffic on the right-of-way and how that will be dealt witb. There were
concerns about that it is being used as thc residential neighborhood and children playing in the area. there
wcre issues of maintenance of the right-of-way and how that would be resolved. Also the liability of what
happens on the right away. Storage of chemicals on site. Traffic perhaps on Sunday that may conflict with
what is happening at the church and on the church's property. And also spoke about the location of the
building on the site. In sunm~ary, I don't know if there were resolution to all those issues but at least they
were discussed. Mr. Chituk can take those issues it into consideration in how he conducts his business and
how his people travel up-and-down the right way to get to and from the proposed building. I do kmow how
much market into that right now. I know the church has concerns.
Member Tortora: Mr. McCarthy, the synopsis of the meeting that you had with the church that you sent us
on April 30th and your perspective on the outcome meeting, to the members of the church have a copy of
this'?
Mr. McCarthy: No. As I (interrupted)
Member Tortom: Could you provide a copy of this to the members now before we proceed and let me
review it so that we can determine whether they concur with your conclusions?
Mr. McCarthy: Certainly. With all due respect we are certainly looking to work together with the members
of the church. I am trying to come back to the issues at hand whether or not the issues are along the reasons
why we are here. Those are whether the nonconforming bulk schedule applies to this property or if the
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right-of-way is determined to be a street. Those are the issues why we are bere, but at the same time we're
certainly looking to work together with the church, l'm bappy to enter any questions that might be ont there
on any of those issues.
Chairman: I just one essay that we have to assume what its before us that the tlu-ee issues are that are before
us that were created by the building department and a notice of disapproval exist. There may be some
discussion from those when we get to the deliberation issue as you saw us deliberate tonight on two or three
applications prior to this hearing. I think we have to assume at least one or two of those of not all tlu'ee,
have some validity. We are not positive. It leaves us with the issue of this entire congregation that has a
concern. And that concetorn is great concern to us. That thc reason why we have agreed to continue this
hearing at this meeting. I guess the question i have a you is, there is no change in the conlbrnfity of the
building there is no change in the movement the building'?
Mr. McCarthy: we have a proposal fbr an alternate scheme, to be honest with you Mr. Chairman of the
bases that the congregation have or not as much the building homicide as it is the people coming to and
from the site. i would be happy to submit to you an alternate scheme which shows a 4800 square fbot
building it is rotated 90 degrees to the north. That may in fact create some other variance issues. Do you
want a copy that?
Chairman: Is this our copy'?
Mr. McCarthy: Yes. Hopefully the members of the church concur with our meeting last time that they
weren't so concerned about the building and now is situated on the property as to use of the building and the
use of the runaway itself.
Member Tortora: One question I had was right now they propose structure is 49 almost 50 feet by 100
almost 5000 square feet. Why wouId you need 5000 square feet for a pool business.
Mr. McCarthy: Mr. Chituck is here. We can estimate come up here in answer that. But,he has equipment,
he has trucks he has things to be stored inside the building. Here supplies. And he has vehicles. He liked
to use is building to keep things out of the way.
Member Tortora: there is no retail sales involved in race at all'? This is just storage of trucks'?
Miss McCarthy: Mr. Chituk, finance about himself.
Chairman: Before you leave 1 need to ask you one question. I know you met with a Plamfing Board
verbally. Have they looked at either one of these plans'?
Mr. McCarthy: I the recent past no.a work sessions back in December they saw the first in this is a revised
location. This is a new plan. We plan on submitting it to them tomorrow. They do not have a copy of the
revised plan.
Member Tortora: That is what they said. They did not see any plan from you. We wwere waiting/hr you to
submit a plan to them so we can get their input as is customary on commercial buildings.we are kind of
open the air because we have not gotten their input.
Mr. McCarthy: I can understand that and that is our delay in getting back to them.
Chairman: I think the culmination of this hearing tonight we will again recess until we get their input to give
on the whole thing as to which plan like the best. Assuming they take the plan that you have just submitted
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to us, thcn you'll take that back to the Building Department and make sure whatever other issues they want
to raisc, so we can deal with that issue and notice of disapproval.
Mr. McCarthy: O.K. 'lhat is fine.
Chairman: That would be the proper thing to do. All right thank you. Mr. Chituk. I know you have testified
to this before in reference to the size of the building and your needs. Maybe you can answer Mrs lortoras'
question.
Mr. Chituk: The reason I want the building to be that big is because I have a lot of stuffthat 1 Want to keep
iu out of the weather. The pool kit is one thing. It takes up a lot of space. Ill can have 2 or 3 pool kits on
hand at any time, when we get busy we start doing two or three or wake. I.just want to keep them in out of
the weather. I do have pickups that I'd like to keep inside any other supplies, filters...l do have chemicals,
not a big supply. Like we talked about the last time only a weeks worth. It has to be inside.
Chairman: can you just take a picture sometime of when you are moving or they are delivering one of these
pool kits for an average size pool, so the Board some perspective. I kuow what they...Norm Reilly lives
across a street from me, I know what he gets delivered. I am aware of that situation. The present members
that are here with me and the other two that are not here with us can get a perspective of what one pool is
comprised of. This way they can understand that. We will multiple that by three or four, then we know how
much space that is taking up out of the size of the site.
Member Orlando: While we are on the subject how wide is a pool kit?
Mr. Chituk: A pool kit will take up about a 20 ft. box truck. It will not fill it but it will take up most of it. it
is eight-foot wide 20 fl. long, six-foot high.
Chairu~an: When we see those open trailers going by with all different types of contortions of things on
them, we know that is basically probably one swimming pool that is going down the highway'?
Mr. Chituk: Right. The step itself will take up...it is eight-foot long and 4 ft. wide. it is like a 4 fi. square by
eight-foot long. It is not heavy it is just bulky.
Member Orlando: Forklift on, and forklift off?
Mr. Chituk: Yes.
Member Tortora: I guess I have concerns because I know that it is a industrial zone area but it is also a
residential area with people who have had homes in the area for many years. Ytoou are requesting a lot of
variances in my mind. In the variances are substantial. I would like to see you scaled-down the proposal
and I am not inclined to look favorably upon the size of and magnitude of the structure. The request of the
variances are very substantial. It is 100 ft. long building. The code is 60.
Mr. Chitnk: The new proposal we have it is 80. We not get back to 80.
Chairman Goehringer: It is a little square of, this one.
Board Secretary: Are you amending the application for this plan?
Tom McCarthy: We are looking lbr feedback fi'om the Board.
Board Secretary: So it is not part of the application at this time.
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Chairman Goehringer: I personally like the new plan. It is going a little fhrther back and (interrupted)
Member Tortora: Thc new plan is 30 ft. fi'mn the right away.
Chairman: 1 know it is 30 ft. buts it to the rear of the property fi~rther.
Member Tortora: It is 30 ft. from the right-of-way instead of 100 ft. and 30 fi. from the rear yard instead of
the 70.I thi~k we need to study the plan. What I am asking is one other things that we always look for in a
variance is, is this the minimum relief required? That is really the bottom line on us. Whichever plan we
look at, is that the minimum size that you require for your business'?
Mr. Chituk: To 20 by 30, that is a garage. That is not big enough. I want to put up a building that I can
operate comfortably at.
Member Tortora: You feel that a 5000 square foot building is the minimum size that you can...'?
Mr. Chituk: The other one we proposed is 4800. We kmocked off some of it. I need the space.
Member Tortora: O.K.
Chairman Goeltringer: Thank you Sir. Is they are anyone who like to speak on this? Any members of the
church or spokespersons. Good evening Ma'am, could you state your name for the record'?
Viola Cross: I am Viola Cross and a live behind the first Baptist Chumh. the building is one thing but the
chemicals and what have you that will be in the building, is another. That is my concern because I am right
there. Ihe cesspools are directly in front of my house. I'm concerned about the septic tank. With the
chemicals, I have heard different things about them exploding and buildings being exploded from these
chemicals, and then there is the evacuation plan we don't even have one back there. Another thing I would
like to know, when was a zoned changed in the area'?
Chairman: I can't answer that question, Ma'am.
Member Tortora: I was trying to figure that out myself Mrs. Cross because someone else asked me that
question. I really don't have any answer.
Mrs. Cross: Because when I moved there it was residential. In front of my house with the traffic going back
and forth, is another problem. My neighbors also they are here to speak tbr themselves.
Chairman Goehringer: Let me address two things quickly. In reference to the sewage, you have the time
now to discuss cesspool system and sewage with the Suffolk County Department of Health services. My
suggestion is that you go up mayor and you speak to them. They are in the County Center in Riverhead.
They arc on the second floor, the southerly part of the building. I believe it is under Environmental Health
Mrs. cross. I would urge you probably to take a copy of the plan with you so that you might be able to
discuss it with one of the engineers up there. That issue will be dealt with. The question while you are
standing here is of Mr. McCalthy. This is an insulated building, is that correct?
Mr. McCarthy: That is correct.
Chairman Goehringer: O.K. So I think the issue of the chemicals would be a little more severe if we were
dealing with an insulated building or a building that would have a significant change in temperature. During
a hot sun'nner day as opposed to insulated building which there would be some deflection of that heat. I
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can't tell you move to discuss that way that this point. It is an excellent question, but it is one in the 22 years
that I have sat on this Board, that I can't tell you who actually to discuss that with. I will think about that and
we'll get back to either yourself or one of the church members if I can think of someone that you might wallt
a talk to recording thc storage of those chemicals, possibly the Suffolk County Fire Marshal. They are in
Yapank. Down by the medium security facility just south of the main precinct. It is in the Cormnissioners
Office of Fire Safety.
Member Tortora: Maybe limiting in address.
Chairman: You just call 852-1400 and asked the commissioners office after nine o'clock in the morning. S.
for the commissioners office who deals with fire safety. They do these inspections. We are Suffolk County
residents and we have to avail ourselves of these services at times.
Mrs. Cross: Another thing, if there is a fire back there at that building there is no evacuation fbr us there. No
plan and all.
Chairn~an: that you have to back to the Fire Chief in the respective community. That would be of course
Cutchogue. one of the three chiefs in Cutchogue. That is also an excellent question.
Mrs. Cross: l am sure what the other people that live here have some sort of concern. Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak? Mr. Domino.
Mr. Domino, Anti-Bias Task Force: I am Mike Domino. I am a member of the Anti-Bias Task Force. In
listening to this, I have some concerns about the building size. Some quick math, on the size of the kits that
he mentioned. Ihe size of the box truck. With three of them on site, comes to about 1000 square feet. If
you have a the couple of pickup trucks and other stuff; it still doesn't come anywhere near the 5000 square
feet that they are asking for this building. My point is that the initial proposal 49 by 100 feet and now they
are knocking back, in their terms, to 4800 square feet. That is not a significant decrease. I am really
concerned when people asked for a variance that there is a real need for it and that there is a basic hardship
involved. I don't see that. Also, she had a concern with a community about road traftic, and other issues that
was raiscd such as egrcss in terms of fire and so forth. I am asking you basically to do what is fair and do
the right thing with space which would at this point be to act in the negative fashion on this application.
Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you.
Mr. Frank Lybert: I lived in this area since about 1977. This place has always been a residential place. I do
not see why we have to go through all this when there is land on Cox and 48 industrial Park that he can
build. I'm sure there is land somewhere else. My concern is the traffic. God fbr big something happens like
a kid gets hit by a car. Don't think that this place should be industrial in my opinion. I don't have nothing
against nobody but this is more like a residential area not a commercial with big trucks going by. There will
be one big track going by next thing, you 'know, in five years there will be two, three. I don't think it should
be allowed out there. Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you. Anybody else? Sir.
Mrs. Brown: I am concerned because I have, as they spoke before, six grandchildren and I am directly
across from the property. I have three quarters of an acre the whole area is almost adjacent to my property
in the kids have to walk out of there every time to catch to school bus. I am concerned about that plus a few
have asthma which 1 do and coupled my grandchildren the dust from that. I wish you can come down there
can take your hand and run them across the Windows sills, they are terrible. That is no good fbr upper
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respiratory problems. If you don't live in the area it might not affect you too much, but if you have to inhale
thc dust and everything else chemical fumes. It is not too good. I don't believe. This is the way out here. I
have my oldest grandchildren wanted to see what it was like.
Chamnan: Let me ask Mr. McCarthy a question. Not to put you on the spot Mr. McCarthy or Mr. Chituk,
wasn't there some suggestion on the table that Mr. Chituk ,,vas going to pave this road.
Mr. McCarthy: We actually talk to the members of the church on the 23rd about doing a blue stone on the
road as opposed to an asphalt pavement.
Chaimlan: Okay so we're talking stone blend or some ...
Mr. McCarthy: Right. I can't speak for Mr. Chituk on this right now if there something else is more
acceptable I kmow there are cost factors involved. We didn't really speak only were together about asphalt
or anything like that. Perhaps it is possibility.
Chairman: Paving is paving. It is a lot better than what we have. I'm sorry Mrs. Brown I just wanted to clear
that issue up.
Mrs. Brown: That is all well in good, but still unless they do something with the ground after they remove
the trees in everything that dust is still going to come out. Like i said 1 have of upper respiratory problems
and also two of my grandchildren. We are directly in front of it. My Land is three-quarters of an acre so it
is almost...it is right there. That is what. That is what I'm concerned about. I'm not trying to be a person that
is a complainer all the time. I think I have to be concerned too.
Chairn~an: Thank you.
Larry Williams: My name is Larry Williams and I am a member of the church and have some
correspondents with the heaviest over to the board just prior to the meeting. And correspondents reads
thusly: (See attached).
Chairman: Thank you, Sir. Anybody else like to speak'?
Rev. Burngrout: I am Rev. Sarah Burngrout. The minister at the church at the bend.the First Universalist
Church. for almost all the five and a half years that I have been in Southold, i have been a member of the
Antibias Task Force education. Viola Cross is also a member of that conunittee. It is my observation
through things that I have heard the Anti-Bias Task Force deal with, one of them was that that neighborhood
which I value has been at risk several times during my five and a half years here. The first time I think was
from fumes which came from the landfill which caused an emergency and the community itself was notified.
That is something which we talked about. I have concerns.that let me kmow that that neighborhood was at
risk because of what the management of the dump does. The next thing I ~ew was the Viola's house was
flooded and that is something for which the Town perhaps was responsible. I would like that neighborhood
to be safe. That church is one year older than I'm. That makes it 77 years he has been there. And that
neighborhood needs to be honored by the Town Southold. 1 would like however life can be worked out in
negotiated to let Southold know that this conununity is important. I heard the author of this book, I will
show to you to, I have asked the Southold Library to get a copy. By special permission in the Mattituck
Library let me bring this so I can inform myself to about the history of the Cutchogue Church. Viola Cross
is famous. She is an evangelist. She's right there in the book. I'm interested local history that is something
been learning. Antonia Booth has helped me learn about Southold's history. I am suggesting that there is
more that we could know to honor and make this community safe.
Chairman: Anybody else like to speak'?
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Rev. Fulford: I am Rev. Fulfbrd, the Pastor of thc First Baptist Church in Cutchogue. I am here today once
again like some of our members just to speak on behalf of the situation. I have heard Viola Cross and all of
them it also Tom McCarthy speak about what he wants to do them at the landfill. Down they arc on the
other side of our church at the landfill. My concern has always been a membership of the church and the
conm~unity. What I don't really understand is how the land was changed to industrial from residential when
it has always been residential around, it has a whispered residential even before the land fill and they were
living there. 1 don't have nothing against nobody that is trying to do their business that is fine. My concern is
that how can you take a residents that has church there and turn it into an industrial which you can come in
input buildings and machines and stuff there. You already have a dangerous situation aware they have come
to the houses on the town of the landfill. I'm really concerned. I'm really concerned about the membership
of the church and the residence there. And now this could happen. When you're talking about industrial
utility the buildings and machinery you can put anything there. If you have residence there, that live there
that play there.
Chairman: Rev. let me hold do you at this point. This is an Appellate Board. This is not a Legislative
Board. The Town, not the present Town Board, probably 10 years ago or 12 years ago change this property.
It is only town board that could change the zone on this property it is not this Board. By the time we finish
with these hearings we're going to ask Mr. McCarthy and Mr. Chituk that to build for us a model storage
building for Mr. Chituk's business. If this is to stay the way this. And we assume it is going to stay the way
it is because of the fact that the zoning exist. As I said the only the Town Board can take the zoning away.
Rev. Fulford: All I ask that whatever you do always remember that, I know that you do, look out for the
safety of the people in the community. Because the community of the town of Southold concerns
everybody. I know that you and other people are responsible for the members and the people of the Town
Southold.
Chairman: Thank you.
Member Tortora: Rev. I had one question. In the letter that Mr. McCarthy submitted to the Board. the
church is very concerned about the churches liability about the right away. Explain that to me please.
Rev. Fulford: The road belongs to the church. If he comes in with a track or tractor and somebody gets hurt.
It doesn't have to be a member of our church, it is on our road. That means that we are responsible because
it is our road.
Member Tortora: No it doesn't.
Rev. Fulford: He is responsible lbr it, is that what you're telling me'?
Member Tortora: No, what l am telling you is that that is a red herring. All roads in the Town, given that
theory, if I stumbled and fell in the middle of the road, would the town be responsible? Would I sue the
Town for $one million'? Maybe I would, but as far as the liability. We took to the town attorney about this.
It is certainly nothing to...it is not generally covered under your insurance policy. So it is not anything to be
terribly ali'aid of. I would hope that you would have an opportunity to be able to consult legal counsel on
issues like this so you get correct information. I mn not an attorney. I did ask our town attorney the
disparity of this. I just want to get that clear and I would really hope that before you take any action as for
selling the right-of-way or...
Rev. Fulford: We wouldn't sell the right-of-way.
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Member Tortora: I was under thc impression that Mr. Chituk was offering to purchase the right way. Please
try to get the benefit of legal counsel that could really givc you the hard-core facts of that so you cut right to
the chase so you ka~ow what is in what isn't on that.
Chairman Goetn-inger: What Mrs. lortora is requesting is that seck some legal advice regarding that I don't
think the cost church anything.
Member Tortora: There are a number of roads in this town that are writer ways owned by private
individuals, ironically enough this is the first application that have heard any grave concerns about liability
exposure.
Rev. Fulford: I thank you lbr your advice, we as the members of the church we don't want no loopholes.
something happened in all the sudden. I am just concerned about the members of the residents that I don't
want anything to happen down the road that we might overlook.
Member Tortora: We are led to believe that it is not as serious as concerned as you may think it is. It would
really be better if you would get legal counsel.
Member Orlando: I have a question Rev. did the church owned his property before Mr. McCarthy.
Rev. Fulford: Yes.
Member Tortora: How do they get lost'?
Rev. Fulford: We owned the piece of property on the road and apiece in the back for ever since I've been
there and even before I came there. We have not sold anything to anyone. The land that was sold around a
church was sold but we have not sold anything.
Member Orlando: So it was not your property'?
Rev. Fulford: The land that he bought was not ours. It was not ours when he bought it. We used to own it a
long time ago. before I came here. The church used to owned a lot of property in there. I have been at the
church lbr 13 years. God bless you and thank you so much.
Chairman Goehringer: No problem. If it is all right with everybody at this point, I think we will recess the
hearing until June 6- giving everybody the time to do their work that they so choose to do. That of course it
is Mr. McCarthy and Mr. Chituks' meeting Planning Board and submission to the Planning Board. Anything
that you want to inquire about Mrs. Cross if we can assist you in any way we certainly will try. We thank
you Rev. for coming in. It is a pleasure to see you again and is a pleasure to have the comanunity here. We
thank Mr. McCarthy and Mr. Chituk also.
SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION Recessing the hearing to June 6, 2002.
Prepared by Jill Doherty.