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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-01/21/2004Albert J. t(rupski, Presidenl James King, Vice-President Artie Foster Ken Poliwoda Peggy A. Dickerson Town Hall 53095 Route 25 P.O. Box 1179 Southol& New York 11971-0959 Telephone (631) 765-1892 Fax C631) 765-1366 BOARD OFTOWNTRUSTEES TOWN OFSOUTHOLD MINUTES Wednesday, January 21, 2004 7:00 PM Present were: Albert J. Krupski, Jr., President James King, Vice-President Artie Foster, Trustee Kenneth Poliwoda, Trustee Peggy Dickerson, Trustee E. Brownell Johnston, Esq., Assistant Town Attorney for Trustees Lauren Standish, Secretarial Assistant CALL MEETING TO ORDER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Friday, February 20, 2004 at 8:00 a.m. TRUSTEE KING moved to approve, TRUSTE DICKERSON seconded. ALL AYES NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 at 7:00 p.m WORK SESSION: 6:00 p.m. TRUSTEE DICKERSON moved to Approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES APPROVE MINUTES: Approve minutes of December 17, 2003. TRUSTEE DICKERSON moved to Approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES ]. MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustees monthly report for December 2003. A check for $10,004.68 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General Fund. I. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for review. III. APPLICATIONS FORAMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES: Board of TruStees 2. January 21, 2004 1: GARDINERS BAY ESTATES HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, INC. requests an amendment to permit #5003 to use dredged sand to fill 33 X 40 area with spoil and use dredged sand for~beach nourishment on adjacent property. Located: Gardiners Bay Estates channel/boat basin. East Marion. SCTM # 37-4-7. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Do I have a motion on this? TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Do I have a second? TRUSTEEFOSTER: I11 second. ALL AYES 2. Docko, Inc. on behalf of ROLLA CAMPBELL requests an amendment to Permit #5201 to add 24 (+/-) If. of 4~ wide fixed wood pile and timber pier extension and a 30 (+/-) If. X4' wide wood fixed "L", a boatqift includ!ng associated braced support piling and relocate three braced tie-off pilings all waterward of the apparent high water line. Located: Private Road, Fishers S arid. SCTM #.~-4-16i MORATORIUM 3. Richard Larsen on behalf of JOHN JOY requests an amendment to permit #5762 to change width of a 33 foot dock from 3' feet to 4',feet, Located: 1330 Deep Hole Drive, Matt~tuck. SCTM #115-12~-18. TRUSTEE KING: Did yOL~ look at this too, Ken? TRUSTEE POL~WODA~ No. , TRUCTEE KRI~PSKI: We approved a 3 X 33' and they built a 4' X 33'. TRUSTEE KING: We discussed this, two sets of hanSrails. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You want to put it off and have all of therq prepare them? TRUSTEE KING: Yes. TRL,~'EE KRUPSKh All right, go ahead. TRUSTEE KING: I want to make a motion to table this bec~a;u,; Se Of the if~consistencies with the permit that we issu~d,compare~t to what's been built. -I'R~TE E DICK.' ERSO N; Second. TRUe'TEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES. 4. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of FAYE REYNOLDS requests an amendment to Permit #5338 to add to and include in the. project the inkind/inplace replacement of an additiena! 142 (+/-) linear foot of existing bulkhead located: 855 Old Salt Road, Mattituck. SCTM #144-5-16. TRUSTEE KING: They're about halfway through the project 2 Beard of Trustees 3 January 21,2004 now. Looked at it, don't have any problem with it. And the only thing I would recommend is a ten foot non-trip and CAC recommended not rouse treated wood, but they're doing it in plastic. I would assume they're going to continue doing it in plastic. I can't imagine them changing, so I'll make a motion to approve. TRUSTEE' POLIWODA:: Second. TRUSTEE KtNG: With the stipulation there's a 10' n,,on-tuff buffer. ~uSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES. 5. JASON LUHRS requests a One-Year Extension to Permit #5488 to install a stone driveway to the garage. Located: 1132 Chestnut Road, Southold. SCTM #59-3-16.5. TRUSTEE DICKRESON: We did it in the office. Do we go ahead and make a motion? TRUSTEE KRIgPSKI: Go ahead. TRUSTEE'D[CKERSON:'"111 make a motion to approve the One-Year--EXten~on. Do havea second? TRUSTEE KING: Second. TRU'SYEE D[OKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES. 6. JOAN MCDONALD requests the last One-Year Extension to Permit #5287 to construct a single-family dwelling with deck/porch, septic system, public water supply and a pervious driveway. Located: 705 Bayshore Road, Greenport. SCTM #53-3-9. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I believe we all looked at this in the field. After looking through the permit I believe the one that excludes the cutting of phragmites and allow the 50' non-disturbance buffer to remain intact without a planting plan. With those stipulations I'll make a motion to approve the one-year extension. TRUST~ DICKERSON: Second. TRbJS-EEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone here on behalf of Joan McDonald? Okay, go ahead. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Did that plan originally show any stone wall retention? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I believe it did. I think we checked, but it had sort of an ambiguous wordin§ on the buffer area that we wanted to dear up. If you could, in fact, put in the minUtes there were no (i naudible) TRUSTEE FOSTER: Yeah, what she requested didn't exist. TRUSTEE KR;UPSKI: Last year we gave the first one-year extension For single-family residence, deck/porch with Board of Trustees 4 January 21,2004 septic system, public water pervious driveway, setback 100 feet from the wetlands selective clearing to within 50 feet of the Wetlands, hay bails would be placed down at the 50 foot buffer line. Dudng construction there is to be no mechanical clearing within the buffer zone, only hand trimming.. Four foot wide mulch path, all roof runoff to be contained by dry wells. Then there's another sentence: Any cutting of the phragmites without planning to restore the uire think what Ken said She can certainly apply for Right (inaudible)· No. It will eliminate the phragmites cutting bo phragmites there. )DA: Peg seconded it. POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES. 7. Jennifer B. Gourd, Esq., on behalf of ALLEN KRAUS Extension to Permit #5501, to construct a Located: 110 Second Avenue, 3 and 20.4. Artie, you want to take the second one? I'm familiar with this anyway. They had some basically needed -- time's running out. '~p'problem with this, I'll make a motion to TRU Second. All in favor?. ALL AYES. Approved. 8. Amato & Associates, P.C. on behalf of JOSE SUQUET requests a Transfer of Permit #5518 from North Bay Propsrtiesto Jose Suquet and a One-Year Extension to Permit 5518',to stabTze/restore eroded buff face and insta bmber acf~bs~ wa k and timber platforms for access to the beach. Ldcat~d.'. 8869 OregOn Road, Cutchogue. SCTM # RU~TEE, -KRUPSKI: I aotually spoke to the attorney rep~bnting Mr Suquet and he sa'd that 't had a sorts f pr~bJems. Th,ey d~dn t begin any work on the project and just ~ant t~) transfer the permit and then get on with the work; So they never, there are no changes and nothing was ever done[ And the next one is the next door neighbor and 4 Board of TCustees 5 January 21,2'004 they're -- because of the problem, they're doing the work for the neighbors. TRUSTEE KING: So they're going to do the work for both properties? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. TRUSTEE KING: So do the next one, then do them both? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right. 9. JOSEPH CASARONA requests a One-Year Extension to permit 5517, to stabilize/restore the eroded bluff face and nstall timber acceSs Walk and timber platforms for access to the beach. Located: 55 Glen Court, Cutchogue. SCTM #83-1-1 & 36.1.. TRUSTEE KING: So I guess they!re going to do these ~ls,ge!her. I'll make a motion to approve the extension. USTEE DICKERSON: Second. TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to go off the Regular Meeting and onto the Public Hearings, TRUSTEE KiNG seconded. ALL AYES At the beginning, we have 12 public hearings, tonight two attheenc, if anyone came in late, have been postponed by the agents, #13, John Betsch and #14 Peconic Design and Construction. Just for information the Town Board has accepted the draft of the rewrite of Chapter 97 Wetland Code for the Town, and there will be a Public Hearing on that Wetland Code draft February 24th, and a copy of the draft is available on Ii.ne on the Town's web site, or if you would like a hard copy, you can come into the Trustees office. And for you folks who just came in, there are two items on the agenda that aren't going to be heard tonight, #13, John Betsch, and #14, Peconic Design and Construction. IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS: THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE TRAVELER WATCHMAN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. ,Board Of Trustees 6 January 21,2004 PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF· FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESS IF POSSIBLE. 1: MIRIAM MEYERS & GARY MANGUS request a Wetland Permit to construct a house addition, an accessory garage, and repair the existing bulkhead. Lbcated: 1295 Island View Lane, Greenport, SCTM 57-2-16. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here that would like to speak on this, to this application? For or against, either?. M.R;' MANGUS:~ Is thet:e any information you need to go forward? TRUSTEE D1C~ERSiON: Actually, the Beard had a discussbn about the exiSti,hg bulkhead. MR,:MANGU8; Okay. TRLrS-FEEcK~PSKi: Would you get up and use the mike pl~se; ~p:We ~l/e a;,clear record? MR MANGUS: Sur0. Thank you. TRU.STEE DICKERSON: I thinkthe Board pretty much decided th!~ ~a;g;e,~ n:,ot even within our jurisdiction but the bull~l~ead~bemg, whatlt was, the Board felt that its oxistence Wasn't ~aecessary and possibly the top boards could It's a tidal marsh behind the bulkhead, which not functional. But tnd ice covering, and it was kind of SO. dig out behind it this past year heavy weather a couple of the boards off. ahd had to dig down in and bolt that to · the ¢1~,.. belt that through the piles to attach them. So mos¢o[ .Jhe way along dug it out and filled it back 'n. But water comes ever .it in storms and then erodes it back~-e~l:. ~ ~e~:a¢ e tot; of loss of soil and stuff on that S~d~e" "~" - ~ ~,¢,~, b.~'~' '~' p a~nts artd stuff in there n the summer. T..R~ ~K[. Thats one of the problems w~th a hard s$h.i. ~: ~,· ~a~,y~u:db~: tend' to acco erate the structure bec~8,~i~ lo,Ok ng at t f you'd ke we cou d '."4. f.',"¢,.(.'.'.;,S., S..';,. 4;.:S.. ' - Ki~,.! ;SK" ..', .:;ause it's difficult without the ice, ". ":;i ':; ~:., ~. ..:.:. :.,..,;;r~ed obvious to the Board that '.::.....;:-, ..':. I,.? :;:;'.'..: ,'ff, then that storm water would :;.., ~:; :: ..,.; .'¢::'. '~ :'...':'...:.,:; it wouldn't be there· It would .:: i~;,', i" f.::'.l,::LI . ".; ~. '.' '...~:~.L.;~ I"r ';.. .... ¢ keeping my boat on the other side · , ;"-! '...: .:.' ! .: .vould ride up over that in Board of Trustees '7 January 21,2004 the high tide and stuff. The high tide I'm actually standing ankle deep in water on the inside of the bulkhead as it comes to it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: As you can see if you look either to the right or left you can see the natural shoreline years ago that property was filled. MR. MANGUS: I think so, yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So when you stick out like that you kind of a.ccel.er~te erosion also and the wave action MR, f~N_.G,,usi~ Right. TRUSTEE KRLJPSKI: So it would be the suggestion of the Board tu t,'~ke:that top plank off. ,,M..' ,R..;~I~I~US: Okay. I might have an engineer take a look at treat ¢~;d~r~e get S~)me other, you know, I mean, I'm sure you guys, yod' kriew a io[ more about t than do, but certainly I could tako a close look at that and I'm going to try to main Laih that. It's been s[oded a lot sinoe we have been there. We had a breach a cou pletimes and got back and rgp~;t,K~.' {':~ee~ed to be after that that it really seem~tl- to ¢ out. TRUSTEE E~I,CKERSON: Did you get more pans to us with the sgptic.lde, ca~e we didn't see any? MR. rv~R'GMS: did not. I'm not sure, I stopped at the Health Board to see what ~eregu!aLions on it. We have to get a variance on the pro!ect, and I want(;(] to make sure we were able to do it and gf(~R*,~l¢~ v~ith it 5efore i went too much further with the dd,L~[lj'ng~6n iL. but d d take a look to see where the 1,00 fciC! '[-h'ai'k~ was from ~h~ wetlapd and I scanned the site pla~ ¢ith ~ radius from the we~tland to See where that was goi.~g't¢ go, in. I hayo it. Ican showitto you at some poir~!.. !t's~' going I.b be very tricky ~ get, the septic work ~ given' t~Ce w?t~ of tho site and everything. So I'm going to have te got,.!hat engineeringwc~rked out. TRUSTEE'DI'.CKC:RS~)N We. wouldn't approve this without the M~. ~,~' s: The s,te s 35 foot w,de and w,th the ten foot ~tf~e bund ng puts the garage a most 18 feet in a~)¢~ f~'.btack from the other s de sn t much room So '~/e xe a look at that may have to sh'ft that ga~, and get the septic between the garage and the houso. 'l~a[ I:'m going to have to look at that. 'I-R:tdS';F6EIK1NG: We need to see that on the survey. TJ~LJ~I;~,~'K. RUPSKI: Yeah You have to put that on the s~,e[¢,,. ~ul~l.~r¢ou dn't be n ourjursd cton it's ~, ~t~. E~wesa~d the garage -- Board of Trustees $ January 21,2004 MR. MANGUS: Your jurisdiction's 100 feet. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 100 feet. MR, MANGUS: I have to show you, you said at some point. It's - I have to show you -- yeah, the 100 foot line is just about the center of the garage. I scanned in the survey of the site next to ours that had the environmental hold on it. This was Jones that just' presented recently. I took the closest point of the wetlands and did it within 100 feet so you could see where it's ( My plan was originally to put the septic up bu~ TRUS-iTEE KRUPSK[: Is them any permit at all for the bulkhead; do I' don't think so. It was them when we got when it was put itl There were some remnal~ts of front of it something. It' rbight be~tpermitted. The woman that did it is still alive, I'm I can try and contact Madeline. It shoald be in our files. We'll check on MR. MANGUS: But this should be fairly accurate, had this survey and I brought it up to scale to meet and all these met. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And you're aware there is a letter in your file frot'n your neighbor?. MR MANGUS: No. Probably Jones or -- ~USTEE KRUPSKI: Peg,g.y, could you read the letter?. ~STEE DICKERSON: I m sorry. November 12, 2004--Ja 2004. Received January 15th. Dear Bbard receipt of notice to adjacent application to perform addition, nents to below-referenced below-referenced property, the noticed to thoroughly understand the ~nt's proposed work to our t the Board of Trustees applica~ to submit the following information Board of Trustees Januaw 21,2004 for further evaluation prior to reviewing the referenced application· (1) proposed two-story garage is located within three feet of the property line and is proposed approximately 20 feet in front of Jones' property bedroom window. Please request that the applicant submit a visual impact analySis clearly illustrating the impact of the proposed additions including sunlight, shading, shading simulations on the Jones' property, porches are proposed to be put from property line. ~ the second stow of the house eJ ~orning sun.[ght porches appears to We tiers includi~g~s~Jnli, ght~ shadir~g and simulations on tho Jones' property. (3)Th(~ ~)i'oposed ad.diLion of the existing house appears to be.local,ed i[3 conflict with e.~isLing overhead utility'tab~s P e;as? re,cluest [hatthe a~p cant sub,it the propQsed rff~£t~0d..u,tility cab es ('t~aiJd b e) perfoi~m-the work ~nclud~ng.:~n'a~d.~blp. ,.. ,; ~. . ?.,.to. have ox.st. ~.q,~. overhead ~ut. _tv cableswi[ ?be p, ro't¢cted er. relocated Tl~o apb cant'shou d also desc-¢ ~e 'f.~l~e~W. orl~'.~/iJl; result ~b. a [¢~po'rary ess of power or comrhu]~i;¢~...io.n;s I.o adjace, r~L ¢.f;~)lS. erties. (4~) Tho-pr~¢r~e$ in the area aC primarily summer vacati.o~- I~o~nes~ The. residents in !.he area occupy these proporbes~,.s~/ely ~n warrher w, oather from May until October. P,l~,~".quesfL' the appl'i.¢an~ts sup[) y constru.cb~)n 's¢~dd,~l~'.a~Td methQds, to ~t~gato construct on no~se and air qu'aht~.*fr~Facts, dunng~ May tllrough October use period. (5) the applicon permits in clear detail a~d ~ ~n the We further request,tl~at i iced application., with the determines the resuJt er'the proposed werk adversely impacts the Jones' prop'erty~that,Lho applicants comrnit proposed remedial altornati.,v¢s tp mitigate those impacts. We are gCatef8 to the distingu'st-od Board of Trustees o¢ t~iS ~;e~'.,~eu.thel:d to a~i~d: us the Board of Trustees l0 Januaw 21 2004 opportunity to comment on the applicant's proposed work and look forward to comment on the applicant's proposed work and look forward to working with the Board of this Town of Southold to afford us this opportunity to comment on the applicant's proposedwork and look forward to working with the Board to review the additional application materials that we await. We can be reached at the following address and phone number. TRUS'EEE KRUPSKt: Thank you. Ithink - the CAC comment. '~RUSTE~ DIC~RSON:I'r' Th~ CAC recommends approval of the ap ]i~a,t, io~ wi~h {h~e fo i'Owing s' ulat ons' The ter~. f~)ot p,, .... ,. ,. tip , . non-tdrf buffer is inatalled landward of'the bu,lkhea~, no pressure treated wood is used in the bu:lkhead and '~ry wells are installed to contain tho roof runoff. MR. MANGUS: Do you want meto add~ess any of her concerns? TRU~TE~,KFZ '.~$HI. Her concerns are not rea ypart of our re~e;w. MR; ~ANGUS; Right. But 1'11 address that prier to that hearing or for-- T~BU .STEE KRUPSKI: I don't think most of her concerns are about side yard Setbacks and whatnot It's already eight, loot. I'm going to continue that's already -- KRUPSKI.: That's a different review process. Our pact the creek. We're n the creek side. As the · we're going to condition dry wells and We're happy with the septic system would affect the environment, as I e is no, jurisdictional for us Okay. Given the constraints on the septic, I shift tha~ garage up just to get it in would be further from the water than the can show you where that is located No, we need to see the proposed -- That's fine. Ill get you a survey of what is To Lauren. That's fine. ~SON: Okay, I'll make a motiontotablethis We getupdated surveys and septic upgrades And what we'll do is we'll put it on for ]0 Board of Trustees l! January 21, 2004 field inspection next month and have a further look at that bulkhead. MR. MANGUS: Yeah, and I'll try to talk to some of our engineers that deal with that just to see if I can add information that will help in making that decision. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Okay. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Do I have a second? TRUSTEE POLrVVODA: Second. TRU~S-FEE DICKERSON: AJI in favor?. ALL AYES. 2. ANTHONY MACALUSO, requests a Wetland Permit to construct a deck Onto the-existinG dwelling. Located: 1.900 Reydon Ddve~ $outhold~ SCTM 80-3-12. TRUSTEE poEIWODA~ Anyone who would ike to comment on this application? MR. MACALUS¢:): i'm A~hony Macaluso. The only comments I'd like, to make is that t am currently under permit to do reno~,.a, dops at my home, and I just wanted to seek permission to ex[e,n~l,~he api~[ica~ioD,,to include my deck. I have qotifie~,a(l'my ~igl~bbr~ .Ir: have proof of the advertisement and ~il~he ~'ffidaVi{of'po~ting Would you like to see it?. 'FRUSTEE KRUPSKh Please, bring one up. TRUSTEE POUWODA: Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like te corement on this application? If not, as far as the Board,, I Iookebl et. this, found it to be very minimal with )n the. creek. I~: begins 109 feet off the bull 97 feet offthe bulkhead, and it's just a don't have any objections to no other public comments, I11 make a public hearing. Second. T'R All in favor?. ALL AYES. I'll make a motion to approve this app TRU~ iD CKERSON: Second 'IiR~§~'b~'POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES. 3. Richard Larsen on behalf of JOHN DICARLO requests a Wetland Permit to replace the existing bulkhead in the same location with C-lock vinyl sheathing. Located: 1150 Terry Lane, Southold. SCTM 64-3-13. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to comment on this? MR. LARSEN: Yeah, I'd like to get a permit in less than a couple years. Board of'Trustees Januaw 21,2004 TRUSTEE POLIWODA: For the record, what's your name? MR. LARSEN: For the record, Richard Larsen. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Okay. Again, is there any other public comments? I've looked at this, I found it straightforward. You have an existing bulkhead. It's ail existing. The only stipulations I'd like to see put in place is that it remains in kind and in place with the C-Loc and a ten foot non-turf buffer behind. MR. LARSEN: That can be gravel? POLIWODA: Gravel, sand, natural plantings, decking. Good. ts there any other Board comments? I looked at it, found it t'il make a motion to close the public hearing. Second. All in favor?. ALL AYES. And I'll make a motion to approve the Second. All in favor? ALL AYES. sid< is 20 fee~ point. to the 4. Amy,Martin of Fairweather-Brown Design Associates, Inc., on beha~?of ELENA KARACOSTAS AND ANDREAS KARACOSTAS, reqU~e~'a Wetlands Perm t to renovate and add to the exi~.!~ r~Sidence on first and second floors and an addi~b~0~ a deck and pool n the s de yard, Located: 21275.S~Undview Av~enue, Southold, SCTM 135-1-2. TR POLJW. ODA: Good evening. AM'¢!~'IN: Amy, Martin for Elena and Andreas Karacostas. rid of a cold so I'm sort oft notes. Basically the owner's moffsh and remove the western exposure sun room to With a deck and a swimming pool. The deck wou ~ree feet from the bluff than the ~oom ex~ends. The deck as proposed will be an but maintains a 15 foot setback on the right The existing water side of the home ~ the bulkhead and approximately 14 ~azard tine at its nearest ~ demolished is approximately 16 feet and the proposed deck would then hazard line. The pool The proposed pump and dry wells are well landward of the proposed deck. ~il consist of repairing and Board of Trustees tS Januaw 21,2004 replacing window on the water side and the siding from vinyl to cedar, There are two proposed two stow additions to the residence. The larger of these is,located on the southwest comer of the home and the smaller is located on the southeast corner of the home, beth of which are on landward side of the home thereby squaring off the building. There's a prOposed:landward entry side covered porch. The garage is to be demolished' and removed at this time, which will help the 10t cov, erage restraints. Perhaps ~t smaller garage will put in place, b,t at this, ~o nt.[t) drains will ~well, and an uired been applied for as >t coverage of buildings is 12.8 porcent. -t'he p[oC)osed Iht coverag,e al[or the demolition of the. part. ol the bai]ding, and the derriolit[¢,n of tile garage is 15:porcent... Neithor o'Fthese figure¢.' in,cludo all of the bi'aCk top that's th,ere, which is a large amount, which is 13.1 porcont. I'r~.,suro. that they would, with the demolition of the g~ra,(!e th.e dlr. jvb:~ay, will bo rpduced in size and per..bap,4, we couid~.bqnvir~ce them I.q put in porous surface on, not tf:~e ~s!ope pa.rt',~ b(t~t the upper pa:~ becauso it's at a steep,~n,.~hne, frornltbo road. Any ~luestons. TRUSTEE PO~WODA: Yeah. my orle question is not a question but,a re~l,UOSt, that y~)~iJ)ut the dry wells o'n th,e, survey. MS'. M/~RTINi Ok"~'y. kctually, I have a revisod survey to ; yoa that s'i~e~/s:the proposed upgradb lo the septic That's on there. You mentioned french okay, I am showing those. As well, during construction retain a hay bail merit? Other than that I don't have any gh the file I see CAC doesn't )rove also. N th~ Is there anybody else who would like to ication? the lucky neighbor who's getting not thrilled with that more I'm Board of Trustees t4 January21,2004 concerned with the possible problems with the blue We have a place there for a long time. I've seen a lot of erosion. We nave pictures from before the hurricane of '38. There was a lot more land there. There's been a lot less land in the last six or seven years. A pool I don't know how big aside from the fact that it's going to be within ten or 12 feet of my property line, affordsthe huge potential for problems going right into the Sound, As they i the groun¢ goes into the L pool that ¢os¢,to ti ine the no ~ shots of how t~ far more' , out to examlno in a e more.( TF~USTEJ= POLIW,'ODA: I believe the whole Board has been out there numero~Js.tin~es b'ocause theyrecently had a bulkhead placed in there. We'.re very familiarwith the site. As far as having a pop! plac.ed so. close to the Sound and your r, ! .............. p ~p.er~.,y lone, .~.'~:a~,~J~0 ~ we end up, mak ng as far a,,d j~of~,~e,Sound I don t see -- NB:~OR ~,~ff: l, dbntwantto be here li~e Amato and. ComD~'y three y~a~ be eve t~at was what ¢6 heard ear ~er r~q~ed te sta~hZe and re,ore eroded TR;U The:structures are proposed behind the coastal coastal erosion. This 't show the coastal erosion. This survey showed it, this ( Yo, u,.haVe to use the mike, I'm sorry. MS. ~ation, the pool, is 698 It's sor[ of odd-: he deck and the deck is 15 by zoning law. we are an environmental Ithe coastal erosion. NE~IG~BOR: I ~ho,ght that was 100 feet. TRU~EE POLIWODA; No coasta eros on ne var es -ERU~EE KRUPsK i Our jurisdiction under Chapter 97 wetland is 100 feet. In ~is case it would be behind water in th~ ~ound, which, wou, ld be water in the bulkhead so I scaldd:'it out. it% roughly80 feetfi'om high water. NEIGHBOR: Not 1007 14 Board of Trustees 15 January 21, 2004 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. That's why it's in j~risdiction. If it was 100 or more it would be non-jurisdiction, we wouldn't even be here. One of our big concerns is destabilization of the Sound bluff. NEIGHBOR: Once it's gone it's not coming back, pool or no pool. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we've seen some pretty massive restorations. NE GHBOR: Ive seen some pretty massive erosion. TR~Sq'Eb KRUPSKI: No, I'll speak for myself. There was . We, are familiar, as Ken said, we are very t the property having been there a number of recently think as the spring. road', I didn't see anything destabilization of the · ! dbtYt F. now if any other board members I'm relatively sure that that whole property pitches back toward the , conb"a lines on here. The only times out t~here, if I remember correctly. Weare in the process of having a topographical We can look at it if you want us to. NODA: We can Table it once the comes in and finalize it, make our idea when that might be? Are we going to re-inspect once we get the the I'll go look at it. It's my entire piece of property pitches from the road, in which case a pool set aros~on problem on the ~ or backwash or anything would have which wouldn't create a hazard Might be a little tricky but it could be done. February 20th. ary 20th? That's our ~nspection date. your inspection date, thank you. Any other public comments? I'll make a Seconded. ALL AYES Board of Trustees td January 21, 20'04 5. Amy Martin of Fair-Weather Brown Design Associates, Inc. on behalf of MEG REED & MICHAEIL SCHUBERT requests a Wetland Permit to construct additions and renovations to the existing residence landward of the existing deck. Located: 815 Fire Road East Marion. SCTM 21-1-1.3 TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone who would like to speak to this application? MS. MARTIN: Amy Martin, again, for the homeowners. This is a request for a permit to. construct a 15 X 26 second stow 'he east end of a one g two deck J of 1 east ¢orner'~o red~c(~ the impact on the .blufl and ~*~ould be steppe!:J ba;ck:',from the oxisting dock by one Ib0t at appr, o~<im~(oly 33' feet [rom the. c0a,s, tal hazard tine at its nea're~,?8~rrr.aJ,plaih French drain¢.~,yoJI8 bo made around all the~lb.(~kincc~and lead. to.a land.we.rd dry well. wh ch again, is not shown on !.hecplan. anU again, which I will have s.hown en ~be plan, a,nd that will be used f(> catch the prepospd,.s,econd .sLory 'ad¢ition run:off'with tb.o proposod guttor 8yster~.~)~ F=renchidCei'n. On January 5th we rocoived a o£[er Of;. noa~u'r sd' ct on rem .the DE~ d~.eU Decorf her 31 st TR~. ,S~EE B]CICE.;~SOR ~'l~ank,~e~. I~!thor8 anyone olse who wot~ld !ll~e..t.o speak? MS. ,E,,I~R.'.T1B.: Did you t nd [? TRUS.3,.E..E,, ,¢,I¢;t~ERSON: ~,~ hat? MS. M~I~iI~: 6ire Road 3. , TRUS'~.E..~'~i¢~E~R~SON: It was co d (ion t think anybed¢ ¢~ -!.§¢~B'ciard. had. any problems with this. If there are no, f~r;[l!.~ cckhn3onts from -- the on y th ng was the soco'n~l~dr~¥yer.,e:h,ay bads because it s so close or not, no?If tire '§i~,},s~f~il ever the edge as they T~'~EEKRUIF.,~I'i( There s br ars that w catch them TR~ C~I¢I(EI~ON: Oh okay (LAUGHTER) Make a motion to TB~E ~O,¢ER Second TREJ~E~ Df~ERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES. I'll mak(; emotion Lo approve the application for ld Board of Trustees l? January 21,2004 Meg Reed and Michael Schu bert for a Wetland Permit to construct additions and renovations to the existing residence with gutters and dry wells, second? TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES 6. Patdcia Moore on behalf of MATT-A-MAR MARINA, LLC requests a Wetland Permit to expand the existing boat storage building, relocate the existing office, and replace the sanitary system. Located: Wiokham Avenue, Mattituck. SCTM: 114-3-1. TR .IJSTEE'K[NG: Anyone here wish to speak on this .property?. MS. ME)ORE: Yes. Good evening. Hello again It's what has been described. This isan expansion of an existing boat We are. relocating some of the ~onconforming buildings. They're some older solidating those and incorporating the gs so you can see that the c rel~c, ated and the boat building, storage bui We are proceeding [o the site go through all the ¢~gencies that So if you have any questions, nd i have Henry, Henry Raynor as well. any other comments on this care to comment? there a big grade change there dry bed on the other side of the MS. ~ You're more familiar with the property than I MR. the southwest corner of the proposed additipn,,theCe's, a drop-off there of about four and a half, five ~. TRUSTi=E KRUPSKh Are you going to keep that? MR. R/~,YNOR: The idea would be below the office to leave · at qpen so that you could either use it for storage or supplies, actually utilize the drop in the elevation. T~USTEE ~RU~SKh You'll excavate into that? MR. ~N~R: Right. TRUSTEE FOS~R: Just like with the other building? MS. M~ORE: Yeah. Like the lower eve s - yeah, right. ~ight. TRUSTEE KING: Any Board comments? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We looked at it a few days ago on l? Board of TdJstees :tS January 21,2004 field inspection. TRUSTEE KING: You're going to put in a new pool because there's quite a bit more runoff, right? MS. MOORE: Yeah, we're going to have to put in drainage additions issues for the site plan process so that's one of the things that Jamie Richter looks at making sure al roof runoff is contained in dry wells. TRUSTEE KING: I didn't have a big problem with anything, I k~o~ we talked about this before, but we'd like to-~ee ~rl ipcre~,s, e in pu~P-out facilities too. MS; M'O.ORE~ Im, s~r[y, couldn t hear. '~R~.~'~G; W9 ~a~.be;e~ l~.dk~ng at trying to expand sume~f.~r~eCnp out,-f;acilitres. It.s-an issue we have to Iolok a~. and I knpw it's a tough issue. MS. MOORE: It's fuqr)y, because all the agencies always ask weuldn~t,you be intere§tb, d r~ a pump ouL station. If you con.v, ince the D'E(~ and!.the Hoalth E)opa'tmont to make life o'as~or'[or epor~!ors w~o purr!p out stations. I th~nk you d get more of,.ap inter~st~ that'i.~re~ll;y infr, tha Ltl~¢.p¢~p o¢,.ut TRI M'S. · .le.'. cori§t ev~ ulations are so severe 'that tho cost of s far exceeds anything [f~p~'.gh it's nocossary lecessary. ~vater quality. a~e,.p~rq.l~ out stations that are be can assist existing to'o~@an(, I think that's in easier process What is the status of the current pump M :S.~I I'm sorry? What is the status of th s current pump , M;~.!I~'~:E: You dont have a pump out system, no, it's -- TRU.".'~_~ING: Thc;re was one befor,e. MOI~I~r~YN'OR: There was a porta.) e pu ~p out system, it w,a,s TRL~ MOl M%. ~fld. -I~Li cid: ~,,~reli~ible. So now-- , ~DICKERSON: So now there s none. ~YN.OR: We don't have a pump out system. ~E: You know you have a railuro of those portables ~/~:]¢..~riou, s probloms, so. ~ING: Its' an issuo w~.,' ,'re, go ng to have to ¢~l~z%n [ho road. that s for suro. Board of Trustees 19 Januaw 21,2004 MS. MOORE: Maybe you should consider just as an idea trying to get the state grants or -- or programs that will make it available for marinas to consider. TRUSTEE KING: We have been wrestling with this whole problem. It has to be very inexpensive and Number 1, it has to be convenient or people aren't going to use it. MS. MOORE: Absolutely. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: There are grandfathered, you need lity. MS. rchasing and it's the men~oned the purchasing. you should put on the record the very~ our hsd ~ I.,. ,~:', :~ "', .... ":::,,,;11 ¢:.i j!4~: . · ';~ ~i ;:Lit:;.' ~,k: t,:. Ii'.;; not avci!Cble~ , MON~iCAiRAYNOR. There was a portable pump out system he grants and unfortunately they're because to accept the grant, we our fuel prices, our don,'t think that's fair for us. We're now. We don't want to lower ) such severe discounts accept those grants. I teach fna Iocal~school district and just , and they found out you : marina was being out and sort that the previous woul ~now a )N: I can understand that. So that's why we decided not to use that. Interesting that now it's without any at all? But I know there are a lot of services that will pump out for people, and I know :ailed that -- Pumpers, if you had something that became kind of a, you marina to another that would be )usiness. It's R: Well, that's falls under the same premise as the. o.ns'te,~as far as t~e other agenc es MS I~ld~E- Yeah~ DEC Watches t TRU$~ ~OS~R: I~'s tough enough to have one on land, believe me I Im~. To I~]ve;one put on water it was pursued, and it 19 Board of Trustees 20 January 21, 2004 just got cost prohibitive. Southampton has five of them and that was all generated through federal and state grant money. MS. MOORE: Did the Town operate that one? TRUSTEE FOSTER: Yes, Southampton Town MS. MOORE: At least you have the insurance. In a sense you have it underwritten by all the tax payers. Insurance is just getting -- insurance for those type of facilities, so, it it that way. 'ssues fmp,ortant issue that you [just think that private someone case, so, it might be Town dock, having ;something somebody has spoken a lot about is ). It's something I'm sure a lot of m,irinas would, be willing !.o help. Not something that cou'ld be.some sort ol'joint effort. M,S. MOORE: That would be something you should consider if you h,.a'.d all, the too.ney, all the marinas participate in some sort ef.a -- kind ..oi'tl[ke a joint agreement or if you did an inter-'munjcipa a,g'reemenL where, the term that you use if you have two towns Cellabora[ing with each other, it's almost an in[or-municipal ~o~ment bel.woon private industry and publiC. So that',~ ar~o~he~' option. MR. RAYNOR: If.,Wo. uld also be oxempt. TRLI.~TBE KRUR~. KI: That doosn't seem fair. MS. MOORE: /~'time you give money somebody's going to take ii away, somep abe TRUSTEE:KR~JPSK: Money should go for improvement not to tie in With tho r;oe, strubtare. TRUS'tEi¢ ¢OSh-ER Get our env ronmental man. MS. M'.O(~R~..: ']:'h~t will bo h s pet project. Thank you. TRUST.,E~ I~'ING.: Any other questions? Any other public comm(!t~,~.~ 'Beih'g none, I make a motion to close the hearing. TRU~;i-~.. FiDS~-ER: Seconded. ALL AYES TRU,STEE KJNG,: rll make a motion to Approve the application as presented TRUSTEE FiDS,TER: Seconded. ALL AYES 7, En-Co.nsuJtant~s on behalf of CAROL & ANTHONY MITAROTONDO requests a wetland Perm t to remove and replace ( n-p ace) approximately 94 linear feet of existing timber bulkhead 20 B0a(d df Trustees 2t January 21, 2004 with vinyl bulkheading and backfill with approximately 25 cubic yards of clean sand fill to be trucked in from an approved upland source. Temporarily remove existing dock during construction and replace in same location and configuration: Located: 950 Little Peconic Bay Road, Cutchogue. SCTM 111-14-15. TRUSTEE DI CKERSON: Is there anyone here who would like to speak to t~is application? MB,. HER~MANN: Rob Hermann from En-Consu!tants here on behalf o¢,tl~e :~pPEcants~Anthony and Carol Mitarotondo. Pretty strcafgl~for~a,r,d aPpii',oati;~n. It's the ip-place replacement of the-eXi~ti:ng bdlkdead ~tfucture. The only change is that the treated timbor will be replaced'with vinyl If the I looked at tMs. I didn't have any and it was very icy Yeah. Besidesthatldidn'tsee any pmblem, !nonAuCbuffer. Yes,. Putin a drywell ~rthe pool while Okay, say that again. Dry well for the pool. We did notice a · the pool when we did our field ns an¢ since they have got a machine there digging, it ~,g'l~t.,...b~..an appropriate time to put 'n a sma backwash vaJ.~l:~)~:'tl~e pool instead of pump ng that ch or ne ov~:rbolard? MI~. H~R'R.MANN: Okay. -I'Rt'ILI,,~I;'.,EE DICKERSON,: Is there anybody else who would like to sp',c~al~ [0 lJbi~s application ? No, I'll make a motion to close th .~¢ a~,; p!!e8~ion. ~TR ~' .~% ;E.E. P; O LIWO DA: Second. ~ R~T.'E;B DICKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES. I'll~r'c.~d,tipg to approve Carol and Anthony Mi¥~.;...~!'a~s~ ~or a ~/etland Perm t to remove and replace timber pa'.lJ~hcad with vinyl bulkheading temporarily remove [he,e~iCt~rCg dock: during construction and to stipulate that th~.r.o.'bu a. ~0 foot non-turf buffer with backwash dry well for~ ~he s'~iniming pool TF~JS~¢ .¢'OLIWODA: Second. rRBS-~E '¢IOKERSON: All in favor? ALL AYES. MR[ FtE~4ANN: You issued a permit for that pool a couple of 2] Board of Trustees 22 January 21,2004 years ago. Was that not a resolution, doesn't look like it was stipulated at that time. That's probably why it's -- if it's lacking, that may be why it's lacking, assuming everybody does exactly what their permits say. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, it's not in their file, thank you. MR. HERRMANN: I have a copy of it, but it doesn't say, but I'll pass it o~ regardless. 8. En-Consultants on behalf of ELLEN RIEGER requests a Wetlands Permit to remove and replace in-place approximate[y 50 lineal with vinyl '20 cubicyards of ipland SCTM Ellen Rio'gor, similar imk[nd -- I'm sorry, in-[ bail,head, but a. gain. the It's ;Xisting would be replaced ~her~ r~ow behalf TRUS-[~E,E K.I]~G: Anybody else this proJect? I' le, ok~d at il.. IL's. kind of a no-braid, fir. ~er.,y.s[raight~ .~Nard. Lik~ Rob said, there is an ex[.~tiq~ bt~ffer there, a'r~ady. It-there are no q[hor .~b~h~ents ' ~:~kola mot on to c ese the hear ng TRUS, T,!E,E DI~I~ERSOffI: Second TR'US~T~,E- KIi';~I.G.: All in ravo~:? ALL AYES. TR:U~,T..~E,E, ~1'~: I'll .ma~kea motJQn to approve the application. TRU .$~iTEE ~:O~.T:ER: S;~cond. TRUS~-[~.' E ~G: All in favor? ALi. AYES. MR. ~:i~'M~N: Thar~ you 9. C~Eetin~ Mgsiano, Inc on behalf of WILLIAM LOIS AND BINA COMES requ,e~ ~i.~d' P~i~'~~ and Coastal Erosion Permi;[ ~[,tl~e'"[iJstal]atioh of ~ppmximately 330 linear feet ro~ re~en~ong ~h~¢b~nk of two contiguous lots. A~p'~0k~[~:30~ bub C yards of mater al will be excaw][e~ frbm the si'Lo and used to backfill the top of slope 'behind th'e revetmgnt. The backfilled area will be rovogetated as reqp~irod~with native vegetation and a ten fool no~-(uff ~uffer will be ~aintained. Clean-up and remo~:J of dangerous d~bris within 100 feet of HWM and per[ormod,~a~ually. Located: 58105 No~h Road, Greenpo~, 22 Board of Trustees 23 Janua~ 21,2004 SCTM #44-2-8 and 9. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who wou d like to speak on behalf of the application? MS, MES IANO: Catherine Mesiano. We have been before you a number of times on this project, and I believe as our last discussion ended in your requesting my bringing to you a plan,for the revetment, which I have submitted. So if you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you, before we answer any qaestion.s, is, there an,y other comments for t~is applic~ion? Do~ ~b~Board,ha:ve ~:ny comment-or auesf~bns~ MS:.,M~SIANO: SpecifiCations of the rock believe are shown in the.' c.¢~)S's-soc~[ion. TRUSTEE KRUPSI!;I: Right, we're going to postpone this. Just thought wo'd open the hearing anyways, I don't know if ba~r~e~'-told~ y. op~ .W'e're going to postpone this because of ctS~,[~e ~n~ a~qd [,.ce coyer Accord ng to my reco ect on as i3~ ~¢'~t[~ ~lle~ v o at,on on th s pro erty for cl.~.~,i~ff. ,.*m ~.,ji,~ .¢. 3'5 cnn+ non-turf buffer, and that's .' ....:..; .I ..... ; ...... ""., .'zastheviola~ion.. ~. ~ ,-~, ,N~ ...... . u';: ' :.., .'..'.ed that ~onths ago. ~ "~' " "' ' ppi ~,.,.)......_--~, '.)SKi: .,4:. .~btthsa... on here is for a ..... . .. ysforonly . .,..~h .-U .... ~ ,r n":'i...,a atenfoot ",."- ....' ......... '"; it shows here pa i .... .,, .' ....... vets set n · .....I .',"l;~h '" ~ .... ;,.,, I1:; ::'.~ · ,-~. ;... SI,,'4,., I".': ;~',:,'~ h:. was disturbed under that old : '. ~.:... '7.;.. !.:..:;;.u ., .... -.,,,ietate. There's been nothing .... ; ' :~..~. '.'.,. ~:.:;n,' :. r' . )ose to go back as far as that "" ....... :;IJ ' ' ' 'i~.,S~ ~-K ~,,-~SKI:..' '. :~you mean go back? '.' -S ..",.'N(;' ..,." · , , ~. ..':nd to excavate as far back into J.';, ";',~;. ~11', ';.' ......... ,. u... ,.... ,,..-,,,.: of. The area that was ...u,:. ,.. '~.,' i::~ ...~ .: ,, .,egetate. I believe --I · .,' , .",:.; i; '" :' ':::,h' ~,.' ..' qere, she had represented ..... :': . .. ::l.,d.::n. hL s"at had been resolved, I '.' . ...,. ,h,.' ..... Ih!.~ ."'r,: ;' .','::., :'.,;;)re you on that, it al]u the area' MS, ~ of th~ t it was resolved but we would wait work was done, which makes weren't going to re-vegetate and then dig revetment. We said we'll wait until n and at that time that buffer the buffer area that you're speaking was cut not dug and excavated, 23 Board of Trustees 24 January 21,2004 and the area that you're speaking of was left to re-vegetate and over the course of the summer, it did that; it just re-grew. There was no further disturbance to that particular area that you're speaking of. So for me -- I don't mean to be difficult -- but I can't give you a plan to re-vegetate something that has naturally re-vegetated, and we have ne plan of disturbi ng it further. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's why we wanted to table this because we were unable to. see if it had, in fact, re-¥egea~ed because, if,~as covered'with snow and ice. It was i~dssibl~ to inspect MS. MEgi~No~ T~vegetation at this point without snow and ice would lSe mir~ima~,,because of all that dies out in the ~inter ti~. TRU,~.KRUPSK: Well, no, what was originally there ,~, despite the snow and ice. '-Iookthrough the minutes. I'm going to because we couldn't inspect and ice. But I'm going to look .~revious meetings, that's what I letated, the area MS. left. y recollection how it was )u were looking to the area that was to me in my earlier conversations with Charlot[e. I[ was what was relayed'to me was the area landward of the revetment. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's what was disturbed and that' what has to be re-vegetated, correc~ landward of the revetrffent: MS. MEStANO: LandWard of the revetment. Resulting further install that you I carrie TRU,~ MS. der office s see TRUS'I reinstal -- I'm tl~in that ~ of the revetment It was not relayed to me lng bout the old violation, which had ved last May or June, the last time Itwas resolved, but l remember -- not going to argue with you because I before me either, Ill come into the ever the transcripts of the old hearings and I believe what we're looking for is the eegetated buffer, and I believe it was and that you did not have to have the work was done on the 24 Board of Trustees 25 January 21,2004 revetment, which we said made sense because then you would disturb it at that time when the work was done, So I'll make a motion -- if there's no other comment I11 make a modon to table the application until the next field inspection is February 20th. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: At which time we will re-inspect. TRUSTEEKRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES· TRUSTEE KRUPSKh In fact, I do have this· The plans are ?t £rnalized one we do not want to come in with a separate ~'~vegeta~!.en plan a,dd then have to re-vegetate the re- egetatlon fort~e;sho~ehne stablhzation is done. We re s~( h018i~,ll-iis~O finalize t~h,e Plan. These minutes-- MS. MEs['A.~O: I guess were Caught nknd ora cmo here Jur!ng the course of the :1 other area that would Ig, We're r of the line' ol~ 'lho. rove[ment. .but we don't hat we would mairffaih that'buf-[er with .I with some pavors so!. in th.e~e. TRLJSTEE KRUPSKI: Our concern isn't aesthetics here, it's for th~;~r~;~:{tae i~y and pauem wou d probab y not =..: .... r. ~.~" [" ,,.~...,"' . :~u re going to have to do s ..... :" to re-vegetat that or g n ;" .... t" ~ :1 , ';l="LI .,"~ i: e a q:, ....... ,~ ...... . .... ~.' [he property, and. then when the · you c .,,'. ::" '..'.,J ;".::. m. ,.'qent. an stabilize the point cou rs.e There won't be a bank as such to erode at that be the rock armor, so as substantial feet there. Over the there's been a loss of at least until -- we' wasn't ~ MS. This wasn't applied for years, The revetment, it loss that I'm talking about has occurred It's been occurring since the glacial sa~ there. MS· MESIANO: I bnderstand, I understand. I'm talking about TRUSTEE t~RUPSKI: Yes. But this wasn't applied for until 25 Board of Trustees 26 January 2i, 2004 February 27th, until recently, so I mean we had talked about, sand eroding on these banks so it's really not a surprise. We'll table the application. MS. MESIANO: I'll be into your office to review the minutes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. 10. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc., on behalf of JOEIN NICKLES c/o BEIXEDON ESTATE PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION requests a wetlands permit to replace inkind/inplace approximately 1,154 linear feet of exist ng t mber bu!kbeading and 77§ linear feet of proposed fiberglass bUl~eadin!~ iristalled inkind/inplace to the existing bullhead n,~, located along th~ properties both north and Sou[h side~ of~ Petty's Poled. Located Arshamomague Avenue and P¢~y;s P,~nd, Seuthold. SC,TM 66-3-14 and 15. TR~S~.K,~: U¢S~I;( Is .there ahyorte here who would like to s~ ih'.:,fa~[ of the~ ~p?Iicatk)n? MR.',~,N~.E~'ON: Bru~.Anderson for Suffolk Environment Oongui~l~ gh;~beh~f of the appiicaE' TR~E~PSKh Camp ng .tonight? MR. AIxlDER~SON: Pardon? TFgU:.ST,.EE ~RUPSKI: Camping here? TRUSTEE FOSTER: Movie slide presentation? MR. AI{IDi=P~SON: Good evening, I'm Bruce Anderson of Suffolk Er~vi'ron'men(al,..for the ap.plicanL John Nickles, Beixedon Estate .'.Property O~vners AssociatiOn, also known as the Canal Owners As¢@oiation. I want to go over this project descd ption because I knoW't.~tr~'.~leeonptioR.~e ~rovided in the apphcat~on ~s quite cempli~i).ed. Basic~lly~hat We're seeking to do is S~ctJre.~gsi~,,ory al~pro~c~lf~' f~ inkihd/inplace c~nstruct on or'oxistirlg f. upcLional timber bulkhead located along both Lho nor!.h and .~ouLb side Of Petty's Pond. The northern !.imber bulk~egd' gpproxirriat.ely 1.660, feet would be replaced. TJfii[¢ proposal included' amumber of 848 of bulkhoading!a.nd.'the reason fo:r that is our initial plans onvi~io~.bd r~(~oiBg on the eastern side the boxed jetty system, and 'iL, t.w~s originally buill, a.s a solid fill system. Thro~,gh the process that ~e;,have had with DEC, the apph~ants off~re(d te give up ttie bo~( dJal,jetty in favor of a single j¢~[ty Cyst. em. so tho actuat number ~f linear feet of bulkheadih¢ .reduces. along the ee~stem or northern t mber bulkhead frb~mthr~, 848 feet to the'6,1~:feet. The actual placement et. i}~o~e would' bo on th8 ~est,ern face of that easter, n, br~li,,~a~J. Tha'~ bLflkheadin~¢~ve~e also requested 26 Board of Trustees 2? January 21,2004 that it go through the mouth in Petty's Pond, and also replace all the bulkheading that's deteriorating 'nside. Along the southern jetty timber bulkhead again through the regulatory process we've already been through we would be replacing approximately 159 feet of linear bulkheading again, in-kind/in-place. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can you show us that as you go through that? MR, ANDERSON: Yeah. That's why I brought this. What we ~e initial proposal and fis'b~x type solid fill ~[de. I'm sorry, when was that built? That~was od§inally built in the late '20s. I'rn sorry, anyone is welcome to come up ~at we have done is voluntarily given up bulkheading built in the )m where it the remnants of it, you can of it. The second thing that occurred was the existing uthern carries on ;,done in the process is 'the jetty as well as the 1 what we're proposing today, apl So that is where we have b~een.an,.d':;where we're -- TRUSTEE KRUPS'KI: Go back there, Bruce, I'm sorry, can you go back? You're. gw~ng up the yellow portion on the east side? MR. ANDERSqN.: ThaL's correct. TRUSTEE'KR .tJPSKI: And that will be now, when we saw it there was ice in.it. So we couldn't see, we didn't know what ~s4 MR. A~D~'8~: BasiCally (inaudible) 215 feet here was removed. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any sand inside or would that be re~ved~ ..,_ a. ls~. ? MR. A~IDERS~QN: No, the sand will stay. In addition to this po~or~o[ the b~lkhead will be removed. TRUSi'EE KRdPSKI: What about that little dog leg to the east? MR. ANDERSON: Here the outer wall will be removed. Okay. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay, thank you. Just want to make sure that everyone% clear on exactly what's proposed. 2? Board of Trustees 28 Januaw 21,2004 MR. ANDERSON: Going to take you back in time. Our client, particularly John Nickles and his family are the previous owners of all the Beixedon AssOciation and all of the area on .the east side of Petty's Pond about 68 acres here, I'm guessing 35, 45 acres on this side, it's about a thousand feet of beach, and the map before you today right here is a map drawn by Otto Van Tuyl on October 31, 1932. This shows how the original jetties cameto be. This isthe solid bulkhead here and here was here. was cou Die o1' very signi.f!cant ways. you will box=Lype jetty ; same configuration that was ori'ginallyi~ tJ~e 1930s, but tho woste, rn more~sputhe~rn portion soclion h~'re was e was removc~¢ as Well. What y'.'ou had ,i outer basin, the mooring area/ramp, ar here. And this is ref, lect.ed b~ndition~ 1946. ~ ~ be a copy o~ the r~,a.p approved b! also approved in 194~6, TRUSTBE K, RUf~$Kh Arethere anydtedge records forthose ye~irs? al time: th~ 1 is ( ~s redeveloped in a No, I don't think so. We don't have the reflect the accurate facts Now, of course what's happened is these or 25 year cycle. The last time and there are records they were circumstances and (inaudible) at that 'easons, the'. first reason ; that {hrough the course of the last seen it~ this .situation is a hard structures and the reduction dkin today is ~posed fiberglass a One had a right to In response to and' the reasons for maintaining !ne is~- three-fold. , t~e most important; , and out of protect land holdings, 28 Board of Trustees January21,2004 substantial land holdings that the Nickles have to the east of the northern jetty, and, again, it's important to note, we're talking about maintaining this line here, that already exists and already functions. That jetty, there is no doubt, is a functional jetty.. And the permits that we have already received reflect that fact. And in addition to that, we had a survey drawn of the jetties which included soundings both within the basin and on eitherside that hat the ~ i the rit~ered there. The it~c[eed -- we haYe ha~% i~othe gg et el,her the applicant already obtained, hat wb had I.~,,~o agencies, with. specilic expertise, both in terms of erosion arfd~wetland issues that have signed-off on this project. And a'~l~-in, I .poiht ouL l,hat the applicants have been,flexible r~i,siOg tiie rapp cat ons resu t ng n stJb;stlanl,iaJl,y Ii~'.s bu khead ng: than wha; was Lhere hi~s!.~)ricall~/, anCl.~ytIat a'rgpably he could maintain today. This is a replacement. It's not sul~jec.t, to,'!.~6m, oratorium as we undersl,and. We agree we've done man:~,.suC.'b, a.p¢licat'ions, and il. is our conl,ention that the proposal as presenLed'l¢om..~?~s with'the stand ards sot forth in Chapter 9.7 el Lho T,(SWa,..,6ode. We argue !.haL !.o replace it will not adversely affect weLla'nd~ t~e T, ewn. The projoc!, will maintain the p[esent q,,',ah!.~ df~/¢tlaad',becauso Lh's's an app 'cat'on to replace th'.¢¢ W~fbh alye~y~oxists. 'l'he replacements of jol. l,ioS ar~d~, bul~.'h~a~Js wiil nbt cause damage to turbid ty or s!ltatibn' I~caCc~.,~:the, s[.ructures are fundamenl,ally functional. S¢.itiis a ~st'r~tus, quo applic~l, on. Obviously, they .~car no ~'-&tie. n, to iss~., es or salt~/a':er intrusion. The replacement '.~,tl~.e je~tties t~i not affect fish. shellfish or oi. her m..arinta.¢¢g~a~isms. It is a very noninLonsiVe application co.~¢ar?~l LO what arguably blr. N ck es has a d?;,..'~ .:Ir:..."..~:!:.".'.:.jl:'::.;,: ..:.~,:;,,.~ wi]'l ~¢'[uaily de~rease '.h, ,:: '.' ::.:!':.: ;,id::;:..,': ;:".. ,s.::'"~.-..¢~ ~,~age~b~cause it will ,,i '..'.. ,',, .n; '-l-~¢~dh ,.,, ..'"~..' n ,,. heyWilll 'ob~ci(~usly ~" ,: ,,'., '";. ~{=; ,.,11. '.'.;il;;n I, ;';. :al[a ~his area because .,,.,. ":." 'c .;"<,- h::'.'::.'. "',:..'~,~ Po~d is deVelo, ped ' '"" "" ~'. ~d ' rty i, ...... I,;~, ........ ' .thosle ..; ..... ,...;,.. ,...::,s, a~,~rppe ;',.'. u, '",., he.; .,,.,.'" ;'. ,.," .., .... ,i~ Pe~'S 'Pond;have an 2P Board of Trustees 30 January 21,2004 obvious and definite right to nawgate into and out of Petty's Pond. This has a history of pdor dredging. The last dredging occurring in 2003, and the securing of these structures in the way proposed will protect that inlet because if otherwise, it is our opinion that the frequency of dredging would increase as a result of littoral drift and the filling of the mouth at Petty's Pond. So it really seeks to maintain the course Of existing channels and the natural movement of water. It will not undermine the lateral su.~po, rt of o~h,er lat~ds. The property merely ~ain~Ain~:;[be eX s¢.~9 cq~ndition of.¢~¢ in.let of ReP's P~dd:an¢lCher, efore, ~er6js, no in~pa'¢t to: ,th~fie~lth, safety a~'d; Cb~,¢al Wel~a r.e ~tl~e people; ~fthe 'town,. The local community is very much aware of what's going on hero. We have noticed them tt*~ice. We have offered to answor any question~they have. V\¢c havo received thus lar six Iottors of'suppprt, know thoro, arc others here to support the appJica{it~s. Tho first lel,ter is one from Gus Clavis dar,ed Februa[y ?_5!.h. which indicates unammous sepp~¢ ~ff, g,~d~s~,,oge~ ~q'e,r;~ th¢;(ely on the mouth oCPe~.s ~o~re~g~en an~ na~bD. You have corrospodCence, fr~dham J B'alas an~ Pau ne Ba as to the Trustees also ru, su~orLdated ~anu~y 11, 2004. You have ~orr~¢po~e~m Bruce apd: M~¢j~t Woodrurr dated Janua.ry lOth te.yo~r:~rd a so vo~ ng ~b~ r strong suppo~ for the ~ppl!cCt~,on Granies to [he .Boal suppdri.. ~e.h~ JanuS-fy from ~onald J.. also ~b pp.e, r[ing~ roco~pd Engir~:C;ers, subs~'~rlti .~1 icomfffu~i live in ,tb[s'.area however ~mi~i,~h and out ohthe.r.¢, our p obi 78 been issu:eU. modt. I ek~oecL' about wotl.~hd. tho code. I. ~' have corresp.oDa~hc.e from Barbara t. Januar,y 15!.h. bxpross~ng their Essingor dated upporl,, ~\)~o have ¢orrespondence N[cklbs dat~ 2~nuary 17. 2004 us with is a project that has .. ~nco of a ~,al~t~'o Army Corps of a I, ,.. · ...... :~, ~,r ,: ..m..u,s ~,:: ¢';.~' ' :: ',.i1~; :'::. :' ... hat . ~e st~t~'res. co ?ur bo~tlf; [o get into .bout beaches and '11 ,proLo¢~'. lam ~v~re we also have a strong namo. ofiBall.. Afi¢ Mr. Ball liled an A~icle ¢,thaL Lh' kpormi~. ~ouid not have ~ has arly I expec~ ho ff~V oxplain gs w~hin th~¢obr cernors of df'Mr. B'~ll'.l]v(,~ in a 30 Board of Trustees 3:t January 21,2004 bulkheaded property which is located adjacent to the southern or western jetty here. That bulkhead was built, as was his house, in approximately ~ 987 during that regulatory process -- during your regulatory process for Mr. Ball you required a 50 foot buffer zone to be maintained on the property. I will hand up his complete file or recent photo showin,g, the buffer which has not been maintained. My point in showing you that is you will discover that he will come and it is r project is because we're talking about a mere and bulkheads. We're talking about a in bulEheads that exist today. This wil navigation into ~nd out of Petty's amount of-- reduce the r~e~ed for fre~ dredging, in th8 mouth of P. etty's in tho ox's't ng onv rbhmonta ~cond t OhS Tn ehe [m. me~l~e and · , · . .. . . .~: ~ ' . ;~ ~_ .... ;~.,? . adjacent area,s. . .. i~y. Fr,esen~abon... tomg. ~',~s suhtrna~ed ~n a letter I ~zill t-iand ¢p ~¥1th~;tt~e, exhibits that are ~e~re you. I~ a brief I¢,~ter;"b.~ I thidk.i[ toucho,~ all' or~t~o.,~,¢iets !.hal I've made tonight. Our atborho~' ~s, hor(~. I~r. ~ickles is here. and we're all prepared t:o an~¥er any quosLions you may have. Thank you Thank you. Would anyone like to speak applicant John Nickles. I'm t little historical perspective, ~alled Beixedon Estates and the a summer resort area hotel called the became my family's business back in Lho ': arh~t :th:e,y operated that business right up through sometime :J ~r 11. /~[ one point t ~e inn burned down and after the war rrf~ mo[her cr.oaLod that subdivision, that you see bolore yo~, and t~ad ~in auction and sold~ off many of the house§. I thidk 2~4) ot ~.he housos that existed in there, and ~.. I ..... . ~, . .., ~. ~' ,'.n: :' q through the. war, can you imagine, ".'h~ · ','..Li~. ",,,I; ::.!..:~.;,.,',:.. .':. that point she . "~.~;;I :.'. ',:J~,..".,~ .'.'u~.~.ii,,,t~:.~ ,;.' · .; east si~e of~he canal, and , ..... ,,,' :'r,: family 6usiness there on .......... -?,l;,,;lld .... III . .... ~ ....... ~ '"" ' ' S;'.u.i~: I:: bay fr,o~t with eight summer .' :'...'. ,; ::~;..';.~, iill;..,i'.,,. ~..,";~ .... use foFtheir boats, which 3! Board of Trustees 32 January 21, 2004 is part of their attractions. Obviously, there's two attractions, one to be in Southold and the other is to be on the bay; and three, to have a convenient place to have a boat for recreational purposes. So it does, in my point of view as a local businessman running this family business, it's integral that we have the ability to get boats into and out of that canal· I, along with my neighbors, own almost 52 pieces of property in Beixedon Estates not counting the property on the east si~e, s,o I'm ~u~e} ~sso¢iatio~. On Close 'to atlzousand side of'tho., ,~ev~n parcels, I think four of those seven parcels Un-;the bay. J talk about.the waterfront, this is a piece of ~ well familiar with. for 65 years. t I can tell you one thing :for sure. I'm sure of death and ~axes, and I'm sure i'f'~'gt~ own waterfront property, you halve a eros~or:, anti yo.u.l~ave accretion, and ir'comes and goes. And as Trustees em .saro you're woll,awarb ¢4 iL, and you see your a:p' plit:~.tipns rven,,t0bight o.f people trying to control their o.r,osfob. Wo'ro'tryi~'g to protect our harbor, for the people that h¢~ on Lh, p.t harbor. ~nd I, rn trying.to project .my · ·" ' mLeres~ on e~ s~de. And se pe(~ple who have a problo~n ah,tn, uld pr. obabl,y mak~an apphcat~on before you to try to db ,~o.~e'~din~ to, protect their interests, and that's about all I..h'av.c ~:o~say, on .t,b'at. ,~nB we ask that yot~u appre~ thi..s," ;a '~hga.'t~on."' "' W,e.hav6 g~ven' up a substantial amount of the existing bul~l~( d~¢at:t.h'or.e .Lo try Lo make the DEC happy and tho Co"ps Of'l~ in'e'e¢~s Would have preferred to maintain that be~( -~n~t b~ =~ i~fil[ed ih 'because it m.akes a much more substa[~tlal jetty., blat we: dffc~de~' to.gwo Lhat u p. not only for m'-4fJter ~¥ er[ :'' ' :!pat.bu~ a se because dp ars are limited,, yeu~kndf,9;.)/o.¢, just can't, pa~, '[;~)r ovory!.hing. If we could pay'f®r,~l~'t,h,i,n;g, (here.would still probably be a full rnaiin~ [her,~: ~§i.b,b: f r~l¢.cl, ed:to, menLion. During the course of-th'e'AC.$1!~m~a~ue Irln. that rnaF~na was a busy place or ope~ [ sJ~ eg~be-a~ts, charter boats a gp ng out of that manna, and :.~n; '~i~e,ll~t~,e. r. basin. U, iat was all pa r[ of that oporetion, o~ thcfihdte[,and so forth. ']'hank you so much for your, t~,~e, TRU~EE KR~SK]: Thank you. TRD~E~ E,O.'~.*. d:ohn,When was that bulkhead built, the we~ S~ ¢¢e~:Wher;~t~ little mar na s? TREI~E~ KR~SK[: Can you co'ne up and take aook at th s? 32 Board of Trustees 33 January 21, 2004 We want to be clear. TRUSTEE FOSTER: I have a little doubt about what I'm looking at here. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We're trying to get some resolution on the shoreline, and the shoreline changes. This was built in the '30s. This was all marina. There was an ice house in here. There's a road, this is a road that came all the way around like this. 'These houses are not accessible from Route 25. MR. ANDERSON; This section here came somewhere in 1932. MR~ NICHES: This'.has never been touched since it was built, and, ~every 25 years tbey did samething here, Last time remember in the'$D~, par[of this in h~re~ but not pictu re taken? '33. with sand in here? MR. h the sand in here. 'From the spoils from the dredging? n't here. I was born in 1938. This was When I was a small child, this was ali sa,nd. T~U~EE FOSTER: But the bulkhead was in? All this was in 1938. ere was no erosion, you'll have that. wanted to clarify that. nificant erosion on this side but ere's no bulkheading there effect. I manage properties and I'm This is the story house, the ht now we have about two feet of This shoreline looks something We were there Monday. Yogi can see there was a gazebo here, that g.~ZeDD i~[~ene. I don't know if you remember. That was way back ~ - TR;U If we stop everything again, we want to knows what's going on, including the right. All right, is ~ else who would like to speak in favor of the MR. Dave CICHANOWICZ, resident at Beixedon. I'm, quote, ~le, as we have been named. Of course I'm in fa~or, ef having this taken care of. And I also 33 E~oard of Trustees January 21,2004- served on a committee along with different fellow community residents for a couple of years. We tded to attack the issue of what the objections are going to be about the erosion along the westerly side of this inlet. We've contacted several different consultants, got different opinions from a wide array of people. I don't know if you're familiarwith the Woodhull Group from Rhode Island. They're a very, quote, SPeCialized environmental grecrOUp, and theycamedown to survey it, gave us some off the O~'d opinion~i but t~e IorLq and sh~rt ~ it was that there~'s ~ what be ps just same time, thank you. there happy, I wish there was, but I'm we could the TRUSTEE KF~UP.SKh Thank you. Anybody else like to speak MR. ~ ~K, m a res dent of Be xedon as we m O~e ~{b~ ~n~ide and I m just here to show m supp'O~f~¢~hi~'~bt. I want to be ab e to get my boat in and ou~ an~: be ~ble Lo do that without having to wor~, who[her ~e c~g g~ ~he dre~ing done in time for the se,~sonal ~ead~,n~s. Thank you TRUSTEE KRU~KI: ~hank you, anybody e MS. N~SEING~: Yos. I'm Jean Neslinger, and I'm also a resident ~ Be[~e~n. and I Ce~ainly approve of this. We ne~ ~ b~U~ ag9 when the bulkhead was there we had no pro~lom w~th~.~ boa~es thank you TRU~TB~ KRUpSKt: Thank you. Anybody else? MR. KLA~IS: N~y name's Dean Klavis. I am also a resident of Sout:hpld. I Joe ~.m i~ [avor of it. I feel that histo~ shows .hat wh~n,t~e; bulkhead was i~ its full integrity, it did provide a ce'rL~1'~.amount of shelter for the beaches. It held off a.lo[ of s~'~.out or Lho beach and also out of the inlot. It wasn'L ~L[J I~e '80s [hat the bu khead sta~ed to de~ngr~ ~h~ ~tu~l~,sta~ed to create a faster rate Of er~s~on~ I'~,ho~e t~at you vote n favor of it. Thank;~Ou, TRU~ ~RpPSK: Than~ you Anybody e se? Bef~e w~ s~ if~here's any other comments that are 34 Board of Trustees 35 Janua~ry 21, 2004 going to object to this application call for a five minute recess. 0Nhereupon, a short recess was taken.) TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition or would have any other comments otherwise about this application? MR. BRESSLER: Yes, please. My name is Eric Bressler Wickham, Bressler. Gordon and Geasa. I'm here on and Mrs. Friedman, Mr. and Mrs. Ball, who are ~ and we would like MR. BRESSLER: Did thek~ E. BROWhlELL J( MR.'BRESSLER: Well. th~ my unde'r~an~ting that Lhe, b ndor, a white binder. ]mit a letter either of them? letter?. ~! correspondence? [ like to do is it's previously a TRU~..TEE'J~O~STER: With the pictures? MR. B'P,,ES.~.LER': With the ~,icturesand the surveys, yeah, with the ove'rla,y,s. I wou.ld like that to be formally made a part of the re:Cb~. I would like that previously submitted, and wo'll,,cctm¢ ~ack to that later. E BRO,IN;~.ELL JO HNSTON: So it was only the binder that you MR. !~F~:E.¢~SLER: And the survoys that went with it. E. B~'~j~"~ELL JOHNSTON: Wo're trying to make a record, here. MR.~.~E~LER: Yes. Now. by way of opening, I must confess that ~rcri~eview'of this project, it strikes me as one of the r~i5§~.~ ~ad~isod and environmenta y unsound projects ever. te,~d'.~e bof~ro this Board. As the applicant pointed out' ia:ct,?d~:!?~ly othor agencies have granted permits. The one that ~;~e k~t~ ~bou!. and caught in time, the DEC, is the su'~j~.~-bff, i~ti/~rticle 78 this Board is the last bastiorr. ~".e~ ~re tho last hope to protect the area, subject are~i h~..r..(~k~sub, ject to ~vhat the court may do in the Article 78. "Th~..~,ifhe re.bponsibility rests upon this Board to proLeOt~tl~.~nvlrenment ~n Pecon~c Bays. The one thing that strik~x~ 1~8. 1~¢e i¢ that whilo th(; appl~,nt~¢ tJd ,.,a Io[ oi' things, the most significant thing abouti£,he¢! ~l~(icStion is what the applicant didn't say. ~h'~ [ffffigpplicant didn't say was anything of a sc~en(~f, ic, j~p~nbtatlvo nature, that would justify th~s rti'c8ia~ )ljEaLion. Absolutely nothing. The reasons tPhaat w~r6~:.,.C.~n ,[or tho application are, I have a right to. 35 Board of Trustees 36 January 21, Well, we certainly disagree with that. You don't have a right to it. You have a dght only to what the regulatory agencies say you have a right to. It's an aid to navigation. Well. a thousand foot jetty would be an aid to navigation in and out of that pond, and so would a 50 foot jetty; and to say that we need this project for navigation aids this Board but little in determining whether the scope of this project is appropriate. I think ~ that regard the place,like Gull POndfor guidance fn and again, ]raphs, bones we need this to 'protect our property. We knows that's what's going on here. and: about it. There.is a huge or thoro has sLicking out ir) tile. Peconic Bay. It.is happens wiLh r,e~po£L to 'Lhe littoral all know it',s sci~tif. J'6ally established WE sand accumulat~,s o~'l.Lhe u,o drilL s. ide. properties., thoso:jd!.[ibs on Lhe do~vn drift ~de an~lthey g~.t shouted o~t~!i"b~d ~'rt~'fo~t. Thor01~ n0 doubt that th'at s what ha~o~¢d here. And as the ~icklesf pr~y ~enef ts from ~h¢,sd, obv ous build~u p of t~e s~., se the Ball and Friedman Rrope~ies a.fe erodad.. Bo~use the sand t~a['s, suppos¢~to ~e'goig~ there ~s~'t going there. We all. k~bw [his. We all k~ow w:-]at happened over on the south side ~j'th that ~ill,ooncei~ed jetl,y [iold and what h ': ,;,,;,,.~ .'.~",;~ ;c~. ~:o:; ,~nd w~a~ h~ppons on the d~nside. V. ir.., ,ii:: ::rc:~c.~: "',,to'; weall know ~,~hat it i,,;.; "t.~ ;~ ?.,:. c.;i i, · ~:u. i~:P~oPic Be~is net the answer~ ~¢~b~ Ner~, aC t~ere~:~ suppod on the [e~r¢ u pg~ ~h ~' d f ~ ~bat a ~ foot jetty s t~e a~ ........ ,.n.....~ .... ,., , ....... ¢ The answer ~s a.~uch · ~(,r.', ¢ ~.;~ot,; .,'~,,,,,,.': ;. ~ ,, .,' ~' such as exists at .... I ,1~ .......~, ";, Ii''~~I~" ~e ~o~.. ,, ,,..1 I .... J ...... , ,] that can be done. I .,,.,, ...... ...h ,. ~ ..... is the dredging SBods h, ........, ........... n ..... I, .. ~ere, they may ,aturallY.go. i ~ay even be a nee~ t~ this jun-ctur~ for [eple~ich~en~; e ~. photographs ests~lish that so what is ca e~'fer here a ~gif ~d ~p~¢aCh to t~l~ pa~ cular [ocabun. 1~ ~, ~ t¢ be ~E~ie& The o~ns need to be ~ns~ered a~ ~, ~,~eS?:~.~at, pre¢~s toe entire bay Board of Trustees 3? January 21, 2004 front has to be adopted. We should like this, we're told, the Board should like this because it's less than what was there before. Well, my clients have been punched in the face two to three times and now they're being told you're only going to be punched once and you should like that a whole lot better. Well, I don't buy into that. There's a better way to get this done and the applicants have not met even the slightest amount of'their burden to show you why this is reasonable or necessary. fails to moment )ut That's 400 and ~ad of Now !etrs.address br efly some of the spec ftc comments that were made. know I"ve, seen that'. me. This SO, if you sand, no it. a new ~ put It's in-kind/in-place. 1 don't .lEnd/in- up comb. I don~t think it does. Even and looked at ssentially , and'they want to not tha~, You've are there. the applicant. all J~ what ti~oy want. Okay. conditions arewell known Lo you. do~,vf~ ther. e. You've seen them. The photographs drift occurred to )assed over by the but and surveys and see e amount, and my clients arC.. losing 'y year~. Even with the jotty, in its .dil~pidat~d.SL.~t,,e. To ropl~e Chis thilng and [)ut 300 fdot df brahd .r¢o~ impervious~ie~y, you may as we jusL shce eft their preperty and sbck ~ ~d:¢ the bay. Now. I'e!.'s !:al¥, a bit about [he sotJndings, we 37 Board of Trustees 38 January21 2004 took soundings, if you look carefully at the diagrams you'll see the soundings are several years old and their surveys so state. They used old numbers that predated the dredging, that in and of itself is reason for denying this application, They didn't even show you whatthe true state of the bottom was and the depths. Is it reasonably necessary?. I don't thinkso. That's basically the bottom line here. There's been no shgwing that What these peopJe are showing is reasonably necessary.to pro;~eCt a~.body but. John Nickles~ property becau~ ef'~he,~a~comtfO~%ofsand, and. when you looked at the p ~r;~e~.~ ta.~'~ ~.v~hat has occurred here For the w~tne~.s'.e,s ~,o. get.~¢arrd~tel] this ,Board to me s just Incre~,ibjc~ we~[ll~ ~u. kli~w;~-eros~.o;n comes and goes and ~ cl~ s ¢)Fop~rt~iare ~own drift, they don t accretc. M.a~4.be on ~ ra~e. rare odd windy day. butthey don't accra(o over tirb. e. [~v'erybody knows fha!.. I'm surprised Lhat L.'hat arguf~e, nt has even been advanced to you people. We have cons~.l~ed the land use cornpany, and 'm handing up~for~tl-Le, reco¢,,d l~he credentials o1' Chuck Bowman and his linC, ings',dbtCn';t~¢r~ wh~ch reflecLs Lho lact ~at in order to p~rAer~,~ ' a.vig ji. n -- and. don't get me wr%g, there's a pond t~e[e, wl~Z,~ver.you wahl to call it. and there is a Icjg~t!m~te;¢r~te~r,b~ in h:~ving navigaLion, and I don't cometbeTo? ypu ~y~ng gi:vo thom nothing, Chuck Bowman doesn't re.c,o~rri.~nd g, iv,,e?~tb.'.ern nol. hing but what theY're asking ror is paten.,tl~..udFoa~ona~. But who[ t.d like 'to hand up now before~,w,e.~et te.;M~~. 'lit~ll is a roviscd table of contents, a~ji~ir;'i*,~p~! c~;¢(,o~ for perf,'it, a ~e'tter from John Nickles, a i~ri,~'~)~t, dY a BED web siLo. a le!.Ler from Dr. Friedm.~n ,to .B'~y C~ns.l. ablo Desinkov~,ski. as welJ as an updated phj~,'e,'gr,.,aFh 8. fi~w.,tide I. aken a[ Iovz t~de January 20 2004 al 4:.~0~. !~w~ng, tl~'e ~ness that. s out there. Now, thd J~'0W~ul~s~.t.'hCit we. have or, Lhp poster board here are all)ce~)(~ihad ia [l~e booklet.tha':.was previously submitted Mr. ¢*~ll"is.. g;..oi~ to ~ork from these boards but everything. ,th? F~s itall(i~g abdut has been provided to you, albeit, in Mr. Ball. w§B.dpn [ you sLarL aL [ho oog~nmng here and ~el! the. B~ar~li;what comes firsl, in Lh's particular chi'onolog,y. MR. BALL: 46, ~u;fveys, we started with the original 46 survey's, W~ic~ li~0t f~'om Joan Latham.There's a lot of pride in ou¢, cor~rnunity. 38 Board of Trustees 39 January 21,2004 MR. BRESSLER: What have you shown? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'm sorry, excuse me. MR. BALL: You have every survey you need. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I want to make sure that it's easier for the Board to review it here or review it there. MR. BALL: Probably there. This is a map of Beixedon Estates that was 19z~6. MR. BRESSLER: Mr. Ball, what have you shown on this map lines? other basins that's bee]~ gone for )lained, a place for large That was. the first jetty off (inaudible). that's all area. ~1~ BRESSLER: That's since? R, BALL: That's since '46. MR BRESSLER: Does the blue line mark then where the shoreline ~s now? MR. B.,ALL: Correct. ~R~TEE KRUPSKI: That was plotted by whom and when? M~L ~AEL: Thatwas just a rough idea to get an idea. That did to show, just to get a rough idea, "view of what's happened. Not by a licensed surveyor?. surveyor of the same a gross format first. What you ha~e remains of Beixedon Beach. i Where is that located? ' ~ here. ~'.' And where is it on the survey? MRi here. That recently, if you see the )ermit. That's the southwestern corner? E's in such bad condition, if you see received the DEC permit to put 330 to ~ry to refill, re-nourish that beach 3m~r~ity really loves that beach. When you mention documents like that, reference them? the table of contents. E. I .JOHNSTON: For the record so it will be clear what you're 39 Board of Trustees 40 January 21,2004 MR. BALL: That would be the DEC permit of '01. The DEC permit of'01 shows that the community received a DEC permit. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But submitted Dy Mr. Friedman. MR. BALL: It was submitted by the Estate of Grace R. Lewis because theystill claim to pay taxes on it although it's a community beach. E. BROWNELL JOHNSTON: Mr. Ball, for the record, could you just are and what your status is here? We're Bali, my wife Barbara's dght over Lot 4 of this subdivision map lis. right here, Harry's right here, Lot 6. N: Okay;thank you. .you have an updated picture. Well, what one ofthe first of the 'oad. add what we did was try a survey done, ~ Of. this map, [t[st~he botiom el' [his one here. Thi~ sur~ey belongs to 1'98~8 (i?~a~d!b',le~. Joe Ingo, gno did that. He~s a licen's.e'd, surv'.p, yor. What happened is it refl~ects Joe Ingeg.no;s ow.n dra~vin.~]s. This is all high water marks. This is a!l,=b..asically gene al. Lhal. point. I moved ,ne~e in '88. $ihce thur~ ;as, this indicates the high tide is up agai~sL [1~o b.ulkhe~d and has ac!.ually cut in behind the bulkh~ad:and'.st'ar~ing, to wash that out and c~oes 'nto the ~(~kl~--~ ~ro~e~,,.t'9, the east of my properS. ~hats when you see t. he,t~E~;s ~re falli .r(g down when y~q view the s~te. T~al s.wbats~happen ng And just did= t again noL l.a~na alJout a.hcensoLt surveyor ~/EOn we had a Be~xe,~-~B(~;~(~h committee formed bac~ ih 01, we had an annual,m[eet.~?,g an,d. we had, a real concern about the Be xedon Beach comm)~il.y; bQach. So we [ormod a c~mmittee and one of .. · ;,, .~= .~..'.: . , , the thJngsl w~.,d~d ~,~a,s, we tr ed to nd out what cou d be done abopt L~e ero~pr~, and on,. of th(, fundamental th~ngs we came .up wife -- ~hd {his w~s one of the big arguments -- costly ~;~,a~ l.o dc~ a. compreh'ensive survey, th8 whole survey. You had to de tl!a;t if,th'ey r,~ally wanted to mske everybody happy, dbweusly'we were aware o~ the jetty problems to begin ~;?ll~. ~r~/b ~t,u. di?d th~a!. ,but the Uickles~ had objeO~(~a~, ~..~s~e~ ]~ o~jectiens to it. So we 40 Board bf T~stees 4! January 21 i 2004 figured, fine, let's try to find out, get some solid core information on that, but that was costly, and it never happened. MR. BRESSLER.' As far as these photographs on this board here and the first board to the right of the old Beixedon what is that to? MR. BALL: This is an aerial photograph that shows the old jetty, you have it in that book. The 160 feet of submerged, and then you haye what remains here. The boards stick out gone and 1 lad wrote to ; agencies rge 8 had stitches one nail ~KRUPSKh I'm sorry, you're referencing a photo photo done get the e~(act information on KRUPSKI: Appreciate that. ~ER: That is, the photograph '01 is the That is thephotograph, and your property is -- Is located if you look at the Photograph A to the BRESSLER: To the left? BALE:i' Right. And the jetty ~s -- BRESSLER: And the jetty is to the right? BALL: Correct. And the picture below it dated 3/11/02 is etty? of that westem jetty that they This is the three bulkheads that go (inaudible) in '88 that's what we were si ~ water mark is here. If you do a scale and ~ not official. If you take a scale you cS We moved here in '88 that's what it w ~[S showing w~a~s actually the high water mark is here. If y~ L~ g~ a'sca e ~pd measure t out, t's not offic a, but if ,~,u f~ake a sc.a~ e the scales on here you can actua y c~ ~UJ~e youFself,, although ~t should be done by a l~censed si ~r. I cam~ up with a rough, as it is now, 40 feet, a 4] Board of Trustees 42 January21,2004 MR. BRESSLER: How long have you been here? MR. BALL: Since '88. MR. BRESSLER: So you're losing two to three feet a year?. MR: BALL: Right. About two feet a year. MR. BRESSLER: Moving onto this photo over here, what's shown on this? MR, BALL: What I tried to do is I tried to through an aeda] photograph that we have, and, again, it's approximate 160 feet this 316, this shows the outer basin as it used to ~ ,, he washout occurring b.ere, some of the begir~ning .parts of from our we studJed that, but of. a. series of -- thisis land was t~'!s~.~Ye~s t h,ey:.we~-e. constant ~/re9 sed. They were cop~a~i~Y, re~' ~jn;, ,g the shoreline. And' Lho shoreline to t~e e&~ ~as~ljy has not estimate~ appro~im~el¢'where ~e. aro now. ~ou can walk tBe ~0a~h and p~[Ey much corn6 [e~that conclusion or g~ a sur~ey.'~et it bad ~6en after, basiCally the high tide mark. TN~ high.tide mark;is basically whore the,b~ead is now. W~a~ I.;had ~ere,~)¢r that s a another se¢i~of pboLogra¢6s and su~eys. What'l.[riod le do ~,¢s tcshow the survoy~t~t was subm~(b~. The s~r~,oy't~at was: s~b~i~ed in '01 is the'~t[om suf~y, and thab~zas done. and then I realiz~ 8s I Idoked ab[he'survey~ ~hat they didn't ~nd~ca[e -= thin, as t~:s~ey thaL ~yas subm ~ed ~e h gh bdb msrk, ~s th~ s'amS~¢nd, to prove that you c~n overlap them b~doi~g ¢19a r,O~e rlays. TRUSTB~ K~Kt~ Is the same as what? MR. BALL: ~h~ high, tide marks haven't moved. They amended their se~eys before (~¢y put in the structures, but they never didlCh~g~ the,~igh tide mark. Ti oy're not ref ect ng the notv ~t~e ~[,ero~:tn. They're rieL changing the water de~)ths, t~ey st~a~gd, tbe same. Certainly after 400 cubic yards ~a~ be~a ta~h out 'those depths had to have changed. Yo~ can't ese that same survey. The reason why I sa~ ~h~',8~ ~¢~]~ ~e is~the amgun(~f fill ~at com¢~odt ~r r ~,,,: ~,~m,.p.O~a~ not e~jy how much comes oU~, b~,~ ~h a~h~. TMs ~s very~ yew ~mpo~ant 42 Board of Trustees 43 January 21,2004 because it's going to definitely affect us on the west. MR. BRESSLER: If you look at the survey it says the water depths are old. It says they used them in 2001. So there is no secret you can take the oveday and lay them over, but you really don~ need to, they tell you. Now, if you would briefly go through the book and identify, in other words, se we have for the record, what each; of, these photographs represents. TRUSTEE: I'm sorry, I think because they're easily ~ remove doe~'t change them. I th~nk Mr. Bali's goi~n§ tO have to come into. thie ~ffi~e and.-- MRs. bA.~.' OJ~a~, ...... ~l~7're' ~e s~ a.,s, just showed anywy.a MR. BRI~¢S~R~ I~e,,s[,Sesthe pb~o~[o~raphs, which are shown in there, ! b~t~ce~:i~[a;cl~.and ~hite, ~vhat year is tl~at? Then we come into the applications, and then s this statement in there of no I think that that clearly ~s a I know that there's going to be an has to be addressed, short This is a very senous substantially ;n the Beixedon Estate Association, an ~ M~ade it dear minutes that this beach is N~bw, we'll go to the letter from Suffolk EnvFe@mental. Consultant in 2001. I would just address the Board~'s attention -- MR.'B~LL: ll~ basically says It is my understanding that it wou,l~; be better-- (inaudible) -- and the maintenance of the i~ ~t ir~cludes dredging and restoration of the beach relateS~to~the I~ng terr~ and persistent erosion of the wetl~¢. We h~d a long d:iscussion talking about this erosi~r~ a~boui ~ow he v~as going to correct it at one of our beaoll ~mmi~tSe meetings, and I th'nk that the memo's 'n drift desig]~ a stud~ before I think that the memos in there speak for there's another letter from En-Consultants s the fact that there's serious down be given to the going to take place there. If done, rather you have this proposal ~ket'assertion that 300 foot jetty is ¥. You have 43 Board Of TruStees January21,2004 then surveys that are on the board, and you have photographs that reflect the inside of what appears to be basically a non~(inaudible) jetty, which you all saw when you went down there, and finally you have down at the end here a oompadson with respect to Gull Pond, which I mentioned earlier, which is a much smaller project, sort of serves essentially the similar function, I thinkthere is matter that al be clarified here, to the west you have Associat~iom That is not (inaudible) to corr[usion~ Estate We or 3 amend the Table ~1 has questions for me or Mr. Ball..know ;that [here are o!.hor people here that wsn~to talk about this app. Jicatio~ TRUST'EE KRUPSKI: .Just a, word o¢clarification, it's not that,th~, fiOgety~ ~'~ ~ ~'~:~: ~s gone back be~een dlff~r~ ite~ that.were, pres~n[od We're tw ng to cladfy, ~e~J'~¢.~ eUClid,.' If there's anybody else that ha~¢ MiR W~ ~6~ ~1¢~ J¢~ren. I'm a director of the Beixeda~t¢~oai~uh. lye been past president, direc[o~ ~d..offig~ through the years. I'm also a resident of Boixe~on. E¢~¢s. E~ates purchased their prior this b which fsi young, marina, eroded it to have ~ limited the that's those' Jrrent owner, but people that had property from we purchased those properties was the right to use aach, L~ect canal. When I was g was there for the lis beach because it was tp so when it or to the west, so that we continued would have now. But today, ~ near marina. So ch was maintained over all aken out and Board of Trustees 45 January 21,2004 put up there on the road. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm sorry to interrupt you, but why do you figure that is? MR. WREN: Why was it taken out? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, why is there substantially there less amount of sand? MR. WREN: Because -- because you're not allowed to take the sand. Ttieamount of permits - you're given permits to do (;ertain thipgs a,~ c.entain times. Back in those days they ju~.~t~1d~,.th~rigs C]~d whatever they wanted to do and -- as took tremendous amounts · When,we were kids, there e it : I'd Like ~ the can~ we.don't really want anyone to slop cana Thabi~n't Our canal. We'd like [hem to use the cana but. out intention is [o see if there's a wav'to see if you can s)~]Or[~ the lengLh of the replacemor~t so that it doesn't have sAcr~ a tremendous impact'on [ho Beixedon Estates As~p(~ti0n. Beach. We don't mind. and. wethink they should .~iav~, tH~,0ana'] li~r[ open· Thai is. npt what we object to. We obj'.'.C,,c1~e.... --'~ length Of tho jelly, and we believe if jet[?w~b the ~l~rtened, we believe we woul~J havea better chance of.r~;air~f'einiJ~g some of the,beach ,and .also the homoow, ne~s ~i.o~los~g,that mucl~,Or. Lheir prope,rLy. It see~a's .t'.~,~i'¢ are reall~ two i~s~es her~. One s tha!. or t~e...e]re~si~)i~ by ~atting, this eu[:!.hefe; the second is tak ng so~'l:Jd~t~/'s p~.~perty by p ~.as ng, o]ne person and harming, otl-jerlp,bppt~'~ pro.l:~, rty. !. seems to me that there's a w&y. i.t...can b,e done, so thaL ove~'ybody's, happy, and I would, ask:~o~. ;~o Lal(.'e a look aL t~i~. becapso I ~lon't believe thaP. th~ ~iengt. J~ of.th~jeLty ~eq uestod is needed at all. TRU,' Thank youl Anyone else? you start, could you just put bOard down. Thank you. MR. taking objeotions or support? didn't see any other hands so -- ~, to si~ down. the ~ nam~ is Howard. Friedman· I'm a full-time, 45 Board of Trustees 4d janua~ 21, 2004 year round resident in the Beixedon Estates. it was pointed out eadier the lot on which I live, which is about 400 or 500 yards west of the inlet. During that period of time that we lived here, now 17 years, we have lost 36 feet of beach, which runs out to about two feet a year, which is continuing because of the erosion; it was necessary for us to put up the bulkhead. If you think I like bulkheads, well, needless to say, I don't like bulkheads, but we had to ' -- well, I'm was .. whole You. haYe the identified the fact that it is down place. rulo is that overall the length of I can see in this and I think it's been s say it again, and that is those always bee [ the entrance to Petty's Pond should be navigable. It should bo navigable· But.a. compromise solution has been -- aL Ioast~we of the Bo~xed¢)~ Es'bates Association have tried to ~';t3rk Out & compr°~e ~at would not only protect the existi'~g bbach of Mr r~k[es property.,, wh ch es to the the silting up so reduce the rate of~ This is a type ~ this where there are ' to live, there you. YOU, Anybody else? E. Can'we have a copy of that full article 78? copy of the TRUSTEE KF~I3P'SKI: Also eould we have a copy of the Article 78 proce~ nC f ed age r~st~e DEC MR, B~'S~: Oertait~ly. And one more matter that omi~ed !t~ ~e~i~.~, and I'm sure this Board s nt mate y famd~ar ~.,,~th tlifo CCMP,of the Oomprehens vep an for the Peconic Bay. I assume ~hat there iS a copy of that in the 46 Board of Trustees 4? January 21 2004 Trustees office, if there is not, then I would ask for leave to obtain and submit a complete copy with particular attention to the provisions contained therein with respecl to shore hardening structures, bulkhead, jetties, groins, because I'm sure the Board is aware after the CCMP was promulgated and adopted, there was a general policy against those sorts of shore hardening structures, and I think that the Board can take. note of that~ and I.'d be happy to submit ~e fpur er five inch document. RUST~,~.~.~.PSKt: YeSv I have seen th,at. ~ BI~E;S~S~ER;;. Yes, [ thQ~hta.s much, An.d there's a map and:~:he' ~P ~ thing ~at g~e~ wit;b ~ and;I make reference to tbat~arl~7~e.w!!l h?(;i~thct~ ~p as it is a public document and:~ 8ea~ha:tce it: I:'d: ~e to, rna~ke that part of the Thank you. I also supply the 78 to you. Chairman, I would point out one With the Article 78 despite to their files, they failed files. We are awaiting just exactly what they based their so-~ualled decisi~)n on. ']'RI;JSTEE KI~,IdPSKI: OUr files, all of this is available at ~SSLER: Duly note?.. Eii.~.KELY: Hi m~' names Fran Blakely, l live in I am not against a jetty, but my big question , is I don't thitik we have been told why it's been requests, you. I'll have the applicant sir. Steve Latham, my wife is here, Joan~ ~, Beixedon for about -- well, different times, bu~ been here about I.happen, to have my parents home--I'm not familiar W~ t~.e pict?res -- is the home that is just to the ~est otIB¢.: Friedman's on the beach and we actually I~ve,up on'ih~;other e~d, two houses there. And I can remember growing up - ;and I've known John for 50 years, maybe a little bit more than that. And this was a very friendly 4? Board of Trustees 48 January 21,2004 community. We're summer residents. We live here now for all year round, and can remember -- I can't tell you how many feet it was, I know we've lost a lot of beach -- but I can remember as a youngster having all this wonderful beach in front of me and walking down to the -- I think there's a picture here that shows the outline of the original, the westem sMe of the original marina, and you could walk to that corner at high tide, you couldn't.get quite to that coiner because the water came i0, but you co~Jld get to within ter~ feet of that calmer. The WhO e beach it was marvelous. ~ )lain · were beach.. Well. ever yearsy~! run ~ of : is east pred. The Bulls the,LaBasis,,a~l,d the Fi'tedmans. the water is to their bulkhead now.. I am'the next hoase, th~ ~!¢~e( isn't to our buikhead'ex¢(~3t t9 tho edgo. Boach in;t[~e;f.~or)~ of our house, that beach is th~ beach thats o~ ned l:~yithe'Estate of Grace R. Lewis and we All have, rights to oase~e~ over it. But'even there Within a re atlv~ y shoK p~r~pd of time tb~e Will be ~o beabh'~b ~?to. I~ thl~k~g ~pa~ing dears 0n the ;bulkh'~ad~ I[~ just an ob~eWa~ien, and I had never -- an~ Icve spoken ~ John, I vo sPek~;to John, Jun~or-- [d~ ~ th~[ :~,~f us ~er su~ested that he should n~be ~l~J~'ahd encouraged h~¢ reconstruct that w~ich w~s deteri~at~g on his ~ 8f the~-~ on the east side ¢ tSe caea], be~use a let 8~he S~d ~hat is filling up at th~ neck. ~t~lly he's Iosld¢.beach, but side lt's on t~o 6a~al side. end it's eom!lng broken ~own, and , He;s~euld have the. r t~e Fran~ should be e;<tent. some poss bdngin;g thc; ...... '.' ..... :,; ....... the beach, ,-,.."::: ,:=., ;;11.:' ... i", !. '~'. where we had 'al drift, "3ton his beach, off f there were some 48 Board of Trustees 49 January21 2004 possibility of that coming in the shadow and stabilizing the beaches of the Balls, the LaBasis and the Fdedmans, and I wouldn't complain either. That's all we're interested in. Otherwise I support John in the reconstruction of everything else, but it's just the distance out that we're very concerned about, and we hopethat you consider that. Thank you. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Anybody else like to speakwho hasn't nlee~ s b~caase h6was, running the. business. My recc(l[e;¢tiOr~ of get together and Tom Ball made said, of course we want to see ~o to mitigate any erosion that may be going on when it became apparent that what they )ur jetty*to come down, then it like we didn't go anywhere, even ,t that maybe we could work on the ~t possible mitigation measures we ( in place, on'that side. in 1970. I spent I moved out of my waS:30 years old. SO I'm very well / and with my when the first n and rny I recall storms that we now goes bulkbt 3 the real estate business for quite II as it's I guess common knowledge by on side of'the littoral drift, it's also hen you put up a bulkhead, you make a 9t you're going to protect what's below it. And when your bulkhead ~n my experience looking at properties since real estate business, since 1995 on many , as the Trustees have I'm roperties that have;the most erosion because when Jp, the wave energy has 49 Board of Trustees 50 January 21, 2004 nowhere to go, it hits that bulkhead and it scours it out. Now, we've had erosion on the east side of the jetty, we have no bulkheading over there and there has been an incredible loss of property over there they talk about 36 to 40 feet of property since I guess the '80s, since the bulkhead went up. But there's been a significant amount of erosbn on my grandmother's piece, which is now my father's real. estate, on the east side, and that is due to the storm !kely, I also am a homeowner bulkhead bulkheads - us ¢ of beach? length of if wo,cb(dld table momont:, thank you. . KRU'PSKI: Thank ~'ou. And act?lly when he's talk. i.n,{4i~.bout a: hardening str'a(ituro ger~ra ~f you do get, it's, v~r,l~,.s, eiLhor bbach, loss er beach elevation loss with a. bul~.,l~',ad, generally. klB. BL4C,14.ELY: If y, ou go down Lo the beach, youll see where tho bUif~eads, ti'fey'have sand. but we have been gouged out and tl~:sand is all g¢ing down there. : Mr. B'l~k~oly is rete'r;ring to the I-oey property and '~b¢,,baley, pr(~f~e:,rty to the west of Hippodrome Pond, and they h~l~.e bull~he.ad¢ an~l Iow profile groins as well. So it's ndL ~xa~ly the .sarh'~J scenarib. '1RU..S~.EE. KRUPSI4h Any, body else who hasn't spoken? MR. FRIEE)'MAN: I~ate to address this thing on perserra~liti:os, .but I n~ust di,sabuse the Trustees of a remark th2L ~;~vs.s;jt~st r;~ade by Mr. Nickles. Junior. We made these m0'el~i.d.~l'S; .we ,l~ad tti.ese m~etings, and we tried very hard to ap[:)ro~Eh [he .idea. ~st as I said iL oadier, of proposing in 8 w¢~ [hat ~,~outd ;protect the beach to the east of the b~lkbe.a;;d, he{p to. ¢n~intaira.th:o oponing to this into Petty's P(~n() iJ~Jd to rbdace~;!.h.e erosion We went over and over that and over.that.;and tliere was ~)n absolute wall of resistance 50 Board of Trustees 5] January 21, 2004 to try to make any compromise. Now, if it's necessary, I have here a letter that I wrote to the Board of Trustees in 2001 in favor of continuing the dredging, l~/e been accused by some of the people of even opposing the dredging, but if you would like, i'd just a soon you have a copy of this letter. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. We'll add it to the record: That's the difficulty here is that it's not O01Y the information that we received yeste.r,d_ay and also th~ information that we have received, tonight, it s going to be:p~'~ difficult to, make a decision,Without really r,e~wi~g'thiS i~!:01;~hation~ There's been, as the ~3eople ~av~;~okbn b:~re, just One moment, :as people have spoken ~r~ t(~{ght~. T~eB:°ard bas b~en r~vie~ing this an, d going t~ro, ug~K ~h~s an~; !~jast I I~e to say, {hat c0asta~eros on 8truc~' be~d~.e~d 'a~r. But}ihB 8d~rd~ d~s have a tremendous a~oun't of experience and I've hoard a lot of comments, men.tioned up hero tonight thaL wore r~lly rmpoAanL [elating to tho different structures that ezist, and [~differe~t structuEes' th~ ezisted here. and h~ they ro!ated ~o erosi~or ~d I thin~ Lh~'s .important Lo pgt the whole, picte[e t¢¢tber. ~nd .it's a good historical. CLthe h stor c¢[refor~ce .is reaU.y 'mpoAanL hole. and I think we II copslder Ir'lB t~at ce~text. MR. ~I¢~LE~; Ran wa~¢od to know w~y Lhe jetty had to be so long. I thihA .MSLgdc~lly SCuLhold Bay Is very shoaled on the no~h~side o¢~it, W.h¢~yeu compare it to Gull Pond, which is ~'ae ~Bctmont ¢~ a very large ie[Ly [o the southwest. ~;bSd~,¢ba~ temiliar with the waters .over there y0~ .9o[;~F, 1~5 bo~.~ water going practicall¢ into wh~ro you'~uld ~rOw a ¢~ne into. where tho inle~ is. I ~hink a ¢¢re c~¢k.b( a naetical cha~. you'll see that the whole ~oAh s~o ~f:Southpld:Bay ~s shoal; wherea¢~ if you go over n'~r w~fc4 e~s ~a:y; Patad,se Po '~t you get s x seyen, oi~]bt rest C[~at~r~qing in fairly close to t~ beach thQ~o e~ed i~sjSe t~ traps that ~: re over · there, fha['s why, t~e. or[~ators of the original pie~went eu~ an additional 1~ feet~from what we have still standing, and the.f~tag¢ :t~¢~ you spo there, if you measure it from the ordihaCy hi¢~ wCter m~rA it'~ notthaL long. If you measure it'fro~ .id~e ~[~ basin where the channel is, of cours.e, it's. 3¢~ fe~ but if~it's from Lho east side. it's not 300 f~t. jt~s qgi~e, different and as 'to Lho west of my -- ea~ of ~y prope~. [h~bay or Lange property, that has 51 Board of Trustees 52. January 21, 2004 jetties. And to the west of Beixedon Estates west of Hippodrome Pond there are bulkheads and numerable jetties going out culminating in the jetty that lies between Newtown Creek and the Wharf House. So all of those jetties along. there are catching the littoral drift and that's why you don't seethe scouring; effect I can take my experience, which is almost. 40 years of selling waterfront property, if you go,to Mattituck I don't know how long you people have been,~ was a ;job, you'll unfortunately they all tide, the f rather ,will tls basically a co',n~egu, ence o£ -- you. know. the good ~thing is you save yo:ur',upl~, nd. t, bo bad thing is the u~)land cai~t retreat and yOu.'lose your,beach· And my son.wa,s trying to indicate,you make a decis, i~)n. you wa~t to sa~4e, the upland, you want to sa~e tide bea~;h and there see many factors involved., shorter~ed ',~uy.~Jb they d r,e.d (. J~ jeLLy basically g¢'~ permit. WI every ten Lat~a.m. which by whoro ~/1'¢.. the old out there. work. LhaL anything. i~'s. if'that jetty I think is I don't [think the ot~t in~o thc bay unless y'o'4.t into the, bay.: R.~gh! nowwe're .~u~. and with'in io~d~ tt~a'L oxisting pid. §ri,U. ge ~:,'as, ajn~t t~.a[ we're doing now. ~ye ha~'e a t.~n year ;~. i;[ offly ri§od- Lo hapRen maybe once that used to, do il. was Duke He. had~a dra¢ line, to uso. he'd come dqwn on the road a'nd drivr~ (hat tl~ing out thore where a'qd h'e woeld throw [hat thing Jo.e DiMi~gg~o. ~omebody [hat motor re'y up .or iai ~P there. He was O.u't there for ma~(be a ~?' a'~'d.......;t ~fv~l~d rnal4o a. big pile ot s,~nd behind him, !.rue~.~(J~eo, no mc,~llected. A piJ'o or sand, the and ttl~t's kids used lO, I .~,.'.L~i~. ~hC..y'd r, un up and do~vn;it and sure it graduaily ~,:¢~nt~¢~.4he ~a~or, but. just: wind'a~ ~.vorything it blew it do~,4ri~st.f;.6/;.~rn. I~d~)n't knotv,'f that's thc; ~aLJse of · . ?, ~,i' .. . .' . . . replemsh~n~',Lho~bqadb but obw~)uS y t d d do;that Now we aro put~l.ng,~sp,oll an the west side. as .you well know bocause y,b~u al~bl',avo.oar permits, and [th'a!. db~es probab y some 52 Board of Trustees 53 January 21, 2004 help but not enough to make everybody happy. But essentially that's why I think the length of the jetty is important. It's a difficult question, I realize, but I think I'll just close with that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The dredging, I don't know if you want to answer it or Mr. Anderson wants to answer it, the dredging you've got depths surveyed in 2001, the dredging was dane in 2003, maintenance dredging. I: Yes, that's correct. I;n, what,area? how many yards? ~Uld say the maps show it going out 50 ' in the record. I believe they will put it in, but it is it:was concentrated right in this -- by the way, I don't lis completely, about 160 on that ers in here, the map permits I you, okay. So as say we have absolute right to ',say we have no responsibility if we could rebuild our application. They could o.v~n remedies to do that. But as this decre~ses ttl~, f're~uehcy o~ dredCng, the amount of dredging is all ,(.]'eing t'O have ~.o increase. It's going to have to increase al our oxppnso. TRU, S~'EE K~U~t~I: That's what -- the ady behind you is goin~ t.o spo'.a;.k r~9~.l., but. lhat's what 'm trying to get at. O~.. of tf:~e titles lhat's been brought up is the length of the:jetty a~i:l ~ have been through it before in a number of pla(~es. You ~no,w if you cut the jetty back, is it in facl tl~e queslion lh~l we're going to contemplate, if you cut the~jetty.back. ~'¥ill it effect Mr. Nickles' property to tho o~:~sL, an~ Lha~'s one issue, or if you cut the jetty back. will it in fa'ct b, enefit the people to the west? ThaL's.somet]~ing [baL-- MR. Af, IDERSC~N:: Shows the high tide mark up to the bulkhead li~e, t,l!,at's ~,battt.hat shows. TRUS;I-EE .~RUP. SKI: Right. currently. MR./-~NDEF~$O~I: Currently. under the status quo. So why is 53 Board of Trustees January 21, 2004 it that somehow having an existing structure that we've already cut back, by the way because this jetty went back substantially, that's what this does not show. This jetty is bigger than the jetty you see today. This jetty is 108 feet bigger, longer, so we have a jetty that has decreased 508 feet, Here's what we have here. How is b logically that further reduction is somehow going to build a beach here? It's not. And the solution here is they have to undertake their ow~ projeot, a,nd we~'re not really here to sub'Sid~ tha~ ~r0je;ct. YOu-know, I don't see the great co0p~&tion a~o[{~l nSighbbrS'thatsue, one.a,npth~r, That's not cooperation. And the reality'is ~hat what ~e l?ve is what wo have. is what wo seek ~ m~nta 't~ ~;¢h~i~We, seek to mainLain. The ~ariancos we've ~lready obtai!~ed Crom other agencies a,~l it~ie es~f~ti~ally a ~us TRUSTEE KRUPS;KI: All right thank you, ~'~,~ause oCthe time factor. I'm going to ask people -- corer' comment? this, the'i;r ) do is when we get through I to do. submit ;onable time so we The woman in front of you is going to ~ad her hand up. onewill dispute that the depths in J~p, ths here and here. Do you want the 16 months we have been they But do one can dispute that the ~uter harbor than it is on either disputed that that means -- Nb, I'just wanted to know where the dredging MR. ,~ .~pERSON: Okay. , Ti~,~ ~E KR~UPSKI: Now, I m sorry, the woman behind you waht~ dito spea~. MR. J :~bERSON: It actually shows. TR~I~ ~E KR~PSKI: I'm sorry, I have a glare there, that's why I keep 9~e~tting MS. ~A~AMi Mr. Anderson, has been making comments about peop(e::iO the ~mmunity. TRUdgE K~UPSKI: That's what I wanted to avo d And could ;yCu ide,r~tify yourself? 54 Board of Trustees 55 January 21,2004 MS. LATHAM: Joan Latham. And I just wanted to point out the proDerty between the west side of the bulkhead and Mr. Bali's property and the property west of Dr. Friedman's property to the Hippodrome Creek, those two beach properties belong to John Nickles. He is theowner. BRUCB ANDERSON.' That's true; It goes down to this area, you see it here. This is-beach owned by -- MS. LATHAM: And one on the other side of this canal. There are ~vo. TBLI~EF KRUPSKI: Thank you. MS.~ ~TH ~.: He k,e, eps saying.s that the peoCe in Beixedon are cdmp]iai~ing;~bey~an~.their beach rebuilt. It's not our beach. ~t b~lo~s ~ Mr. Nickles, and we have deeded rights reit. Just one or two comments. First of all, I lk tliat t~e photographs and the book and your in p~t[cular demonstrate what the ~n the bulkhead is down there, and you can it deserves, the statement a bulkhead there. The thing is porous, my~c!ients would haYe no property left. So what p~ep~sed Js '~ctua]ly a significant change from w~at's there. Tl~t's comment one. iSthe Word that comes to mind when I ~isted on the Board is W~ell, I think if we cut it and it's shallow vould do that and knows that it's that, b~ ~. Board te of'the notion that, yes, ~ you put jetties in th, ~. conspicuous failure of any , sort of guidance, and while e Board will take underconsider~tibn based' upon its experience all o~ these sSueS., the app! Saint ha~nr:[ ~ivon yo~ much to work with. Well. I neJed 300 fee.! and vcell, Lhat it's, great to sa~' th~L and ~,ou'vo heard iL again and again and again, but that doesn'L ~k~ if so. Ther, e's not one.shred of proof as to. wh~[ will hap. l~n if they don't have t~ie $00 feet of bu'!kh ,ead.'~a~ i~i_~e~tNe~¥ ~pervi~)us. They, have made no showing whatsoever ~'ce.~.. 9'eriera ized statements to you, and w(. as~k that y. ou look '¢erY ¢le~ely, and I ~luess based upon whatever experience Y°8 I~a~e because thei~e's certainly not 55 Board of Trustees 55 January 21,2004 much in the record as to the conditions at this particular site, and the Board correctly points out that there are site-specific conditionsthat have to be considered here and you're given 33 year old numbers on the soundings, and you're given no data or information whatsoever as to what the real effect of this thing is going to be, and we ask you to consider that very carefully in making any sort of determination. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thank you. Mr. Bressler has the floor. MR,~''~ ~RESSLER: I tbiok Dr, Friedman wants me to mention about.the~ r~umbers. Without befab6ri~g.l~he point, the Board It can lo(~k at thesun/eys and of What the 'nent he own defense, I'd like to say that we ~ these sit'clarions. What causes ~ r, hy are, and we rea] y Want all · ' .,.:"1.:~ ,: ,::: .::)ver it so we can make the Absolutely. And I did not mean to downplay Just for everybody's benefit, we're not all I say you have to apply that experience been given a whole lot else to work with ations and desires. So we ask ask ~ MR. I revi~ <RUPSKh Before we close this hearing though, I'd like to i~rd -- Subject of course to the receipt of the .you indicated eadier. KBUPSKI: Yes, but I just wanted to ask the Board if they other additional information so that we could b was submitted so far and make a decision? :)ICKERSON: My only thought was both parties re,search and consultants; do we have all of that? KCtUPSKI: That they referenced? DI~CKERSON: Yes. KRUPSKI: Yes, they gave us a great deal of information. Land Use, and Kumar, and there's -- I have the minutes from all the canal meetings that we in our community had a couple of 56 Board of Trustees 57 January 21, 2004 years ago, if you want those. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: No. I meant consultants that were referenced. JOAN LATHAM: We had consultants speak to our committee. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Personally think an aerial photo would be beneficial. MR, BRESSLER: What are you looking for in particular? TRUSTEE FOSTER: The latest is in the '50s and the bulkhead uilt back in the '30s; if there, are any aerial photos than the.'50s. dates are you looking for can go in succession is too long of beach be ail the way So you're looking for photos between the '50s No. As well as prior to. So you want any aerials in addition to what FOSTER: So we can establish a pattern of KRUPSKh That's very helpful because it goes 1953 a big lapse. 1979 photo doesn't show the e inlet, it only shows the Hippodrome. ER: You wilt of course have to take into account ,~re in play at the time, the ! KRUPSKh That's why earlier, the dredging, the ere were other structures there. The fact that bulkheads along the bay at that point, so ~plicating little factors that we're ke all that into consideration. ~SLER: Yeah. Cleady you'll have to take it into but weighing most heavily what we got now and i'FOSTER: There seems to be an acceleration of M~ ~ESSLER: Well, we will do that E KRUPSKI: So we re going to make a motion to table th;i~,, ~.rirlg and we will have this information reviewed. VCC~,~,"~ny information in as soon as possible. The next hSa~, iS"'February 25th. 5? Board of Trustees 58 January 21,200'4 MR. BRESSLER: You want it before then? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We need it really within a week so that we can review it. We want to review it. We can read it now, but we, really want to see it all. So we can review it all in context. MR. BRESSLER: Right. So what submission date are you looking for. TRUSTEE FOSTER: As eady as possible. TI~USTE. E KRUPSKI: A week? TBU~STEE, FOSTER. If we dOn't get it, it's going to take an. Other ~ntl~ te review it. MB. BR~$S~P,.. Thats why I m asking what date so we ca WOrk witbinthe parameter?. TP~7['~ ~PSKk well, we're looking for aerials. TRI~STEE~I=OSTER: I just want to see what the progression is. MR. BRESSLER: Well, there's lots of p~aces you can look for aerials. You can go to the Air Force out in Colorado; you can goto Lockwood Kessler and Aerographics. You knoW, I haYe another case where that's at issue, so you know, there, s, lots ef,.clifferent sources you can go to that take vafyi89 a .~, o~nts of time, and in the fullness of time, you casa g~[ t~m all. So tell me what your time parameter is, and we,ll!getups many of them, as possible. T~U$~ K~UPSKI': This a,ctually I would imagine th,e_re's resouree~ at Town Hall that would be available. There s aw a.t Town Nail at the planning office. 3uld certainly start there. But that might be sufficient. MR:. Atoll, I' don't .knew. .(1~ Why don't we start with that, and we can review eally think that there's a gap or a cd, cai,', then we can add to that. MR. o~'Cobrse when I looked in the office, you ~tedals going back to -- See what you can find. MR. BI Thank you. I~R. BA~L: I~ aCdition to that they had mentioned they had s~id f~e~ard~ed ~uctures almost as though I did that. E. BI~ ,(p~NE~I-, JONNSTON. Can you mention your name'~ MR. BALL: l~y name is Tom Ball again. I'm the adjacent ne~ghbo(~ If I,¢~dn t put tl~e structure up, I would look I~ke the, Brop~y~u$~,went to the jetty, that s what 1 looked I~ke. ~ittiout that thats what I would look I~ke. 58 Board of Trustees 59 January 21,2004 TRUSTEE: That's your opinion, for the record. MR. BALL: I mean, there's no sand to replace it, and here's all the trees in the bay dght now. That's Nickles property, and those trees are eventually going to go down the bay and probably won't take care of them and it's a ridiculous situation. TRUSTEEKRUPSKh Just for the record that's your opimon. MR. BALL: Okay. And then just for the record what this side ioaks like. If you look at the sand, it's dght at the igo~ at the jetty adtua[iy. That That's why we want the aerials. Because referring to the length of the jetty, measured it these ) 200 feet from the high so. you could have a surveyor, So we really need a survey so we g~t the. high water ~arks sbcwn, so you can actually see what y~u have.. We rreed 'to ha~e ~ siurvey done Because without a ~rVe~ ~;re g~ifg!;~,y m~ m~a~rements 'These ~h ngs -th~ ~ey ~s ~oes nC reflect close to the b .,, ... ,,. , .,, <. IF;¢ ..... ,., W;hen ygu wakthe beach at b'.;'h ,.:~. '.,>...'. I :.{:., .~'":. 'm [~]Mng about the high t~i: ,: 5::'.~ n,: h:, :;LJ'~'";:;:: i~gOt to be 1'5 ~et 0ff t~i:,¢. "it',, .'.. · .;;'.'~. T4:.S' I. ,.,o.''1~. , .. .: e not obligated to go out and get st.,' .,:~,. h'.' Ih,: ;','p::l=::~.".'e :~bligatien to submit the ~ ~LL: Is t, my obligat on to do? There's been a huge diEe~e m h~gh ti~¢ ~¢~5~ FOS~E~= The burden of proof is on the a~] ¢~ It s nC (~aud]b[e). Thank you ~b~ KRU'R~i: Ill make a motion to Table the application. T~US~ F~T¢~ Se~nded. ALL AYES 11. Harvey Arnoff, Esq., on behalf of JEFFREY HALLOCK requests a Wetland Permit to cut into ground of right-of-way for installation of underground utilities, permission to cut base or,existing dirt roadway to upgrade with stone materials, and for the proposed driveway landward of the r ght-of,waY, . Loq¢~'.. D achun road Laura . SCTM#127-3-9.1. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone who would like to speak on behalf of the application? 59 Board of Trustees ~;0 January 21,2004 MR. ARNOFF: Yes. Harvey Arnoff, 206 Roanoke Avenue, Riverhead, New York, on behalf of the applicant. Good evening, my initial presentation was going to be about an hour and-a-half, I'll see if I can shorten it a bit for you. I think I should comment that everybody tonight has talked about it's been 50 years that I've known John Nickles, and~ 1 was a young man when this happened -- I think [wasa young man when this case ~,ear and I don!t knowthat I'm tod~y ~han/was'when we first came before so~. are. would hope that wear6 [ think the Board at frustrated by the fact, and I has made in coming up with complicated;some of the issues way. in IJ~e v con!er', Board to do but you have ma You have be~'ore you. an opinion of the Zoning Board of;Appeals, in fact, a follow-up that was sent to you by Ms. O[iva indicating an inspection that was done very recently b~' Mr. Goet~ringier in regard to the right of ~s recommendations are somewhat )ns that came within the four What we're asking this Again, we're not Brush's Creek. All we're e t.o allow my'client build ;I in the way of that is this. questions you, might have, ly upon the -- I mean, gh is a ~ from a lot of upo~ ~ say. TRU, STEE KRU MR., HEFRON: Barbara I a~m not aC ~ That's all I have to Thank you. any other comment? is Jim Hefron, I'm here representing Creek owners who have property ~hies Creek. I'm Of Counsel to is the attorney who has been the record on behalf of Barbara ,he's out of the country and in for him ~ files as 60 Board of Trustees Januaw 21,2004 Mr. Amoff or as you, but based on what I know my clients have several reasons to oppose the application. First of all, I'd like to say it's my understanding that the proposed road iS going to be sited abutting the creek on the west side of the prope~y. TRUSTEE FOSTER: You should also understand that it's an existing road as we speak. MR~ H.EFRQN: We!l, Itm not trying to make a record about Wha~ th~ road is,, The r~ad is what the road is, TRUSTEE ,F©STER; Its a ~r°P~e~ rnprovement, npt a proposed new [oa~i; :The ro~d ha~ beena farm road for mauy, manY years. i,vl~.:;H~0N:; ~16~ ~Want to get into a semantic issue about is;it;g;~Ofd, is':;ji npta'r°ad, gue~ it's depicted on a s,;~.;~y &~d ~t~vie~ the survey is, that,s what it is, ol~a~;: B~E~;i~ ~¢,.e.'e; ih, roe ~e~ments in the file by e~rv~on;~8~[~l:;eX~ef~§ Pe~ning ~:the applioatiOn. Each o~e of thom says Lhoro's no basis t~ pu~the propo, sed road abuLting. Lho.,weLland. Th,31, it shou dbe, 'f anyplace, on the ~as!;:~s d6,or the proporl,y. I don!t th hk th&re's -. as iext.to the provision of ~¢¢.nforce that says ne!. ~ubCLanti~ll,.y"--'l,hon iL h.as a laundry lisl, of' al:tri ,~utus voO'ro~sup[3~sod L~ IooR for -- "advorsely effect Lh;e ~eLla~.d~..of. Lh.e'. ~own. Now. ~n Lhe lace of a record v,che, r.,e tt~e.:t[~C ex~ft ~ays,do~ t a!lo.w it next to the w~tl,~ndi toe. Town~e,.nvir~onrrt'en;tal expe~t says don't allow it nexf~o t..;h~ W8t anl;;t~.~nd tl~e~,third Town.env'ros~enta person say¢~don;ti~ ow t~ ..¢xt t,o.the wet and~. can t see how th,e~i~ s ar_r_r_r~':b-'c§is ii~ (he fecd~d ~.o appro~/o il. th;ere. So t[t~l~ th;3.~r~U~'of, n~y ,¢ros~L~t,~oh. I'(i,lil~e to ask that you hold?thel re, c~d open:fo[ ~ .sbbmission efa wri~en objection b.y I~]attl~ew./~tkinsen wt~en he returns and is able to consult with.i!his cl,~nis. TRt¢'STE~.~(Rt2PSKh I'm gping [o clarify a few things for l,fto ,Board~b.s,*t to bring us up Lo spood. I Lhink our heads ar;e §till rir~qinb.lrom the last hearinc~ M~../~R~N~',.F..~: I'm suro thoy arc. TR .MSTEB'KRUPSKh The DEC received October 24, 2003, the Dep~rth~ea~ objects to the proposed increase in width of the Board of Trustees 62 January 21,2004 roadway. The Department will not authorize the proposed widening of the roadway. That's from the DEC. We have a letter from Mark Terry -- I'm sorry, the letter from Jerry Goehringer dated 12/29/03. It references the 1/18/01 decision of the ZBA and his inspection, and he believes that the decision- 2001 decision of this Board should stand. New, both things --then I'm going to read the letter--you want mete read that? Applicant requests a variance under Ne~ York Town L~w Section 288 -- Board ros¢4ution resolved ~)y Jerry Goehdnger. seconded by Member Dinizio was resolved granted under New York Town Law 228 for access over a. right-of-way subject to tbe follow[n9 con'd'Lions and improvements: The applicant's ri~t-ef-way mu~t remain open and unobstructed for a minimum width of 15 [oo~.for its entire length. Improvemeats with con~i~u;ous m¢in;.¢nance in good condition are at all times --then it has,., a'roas!.hat it ~h(~hld,b~ widened to 15 feet unobstructed min.)mum clo-a'r~ance hoigh.[: 15 root, stJ'aighton it as much as pos~i hie, to remove trees. It has, pl~-ce appro,x, im~!y four to six. inches -- remove --I'm sorry -- approximately four to-si~irt¢~ of;~a~-~packbU~',§i~s.e: ropla'.ce wiLh Iqur [o six inches of c,rushed'c0ncrete as needed. SO someareas we need six inches i.n Whl~-h y. ou then to13 coat iL'.~ith two ir~hes of three-qu~ad~r stone 151'ends. So, to me,t~'is is -- I'msorry, I m going ~ rea.d,~3rk T.erry..~ I~ttor. I m. gp[trng e~t ¢ mysellt'. 'N;dw 'the. ZB.~ s po,si(ion: ha~, changed because they , ' . .~ '~ · .;.., . . , ,~ , den t.rec, ommend ex,cavat.~q anY lenee~. They cl~ar3g:ed ~t to del .~. ~ tale exca.~¢.o.a., !~.ul. pul. a doubl'o layer or stenes acroes, Lbo, (ina ,u(Ji...bJe,) to a..~oid a~y;..ex'¢a.vation. Okay, This is.'~t~ Fe.bruaey 1'8.20~3 to the.Town Trustees frorn, Mark,'l'orry. $',~ior E~v. iroam~'ntaJ I~[anner. Review of the,~'i .e,~,~as con.~l~C~e',d on Ro~e~hber 1,8~h to assess feasible ., .,,' . , ,,~. ';~' · . . ,. · ~lternat~es to ~,,~.hl. or w~y sorwng Tax Map 127-3-10, and'. '.. s .m~,.. u,r~d~a.d., t~gj'Lhat., . , the:~;u rr~nt., r ght-of-way. w~dtb qf e~ght ;.f,~t..' .~ur'suan~;.te Al©8-15A -- tho r~h~-bf,~/'a'~, ~V ~.'e~h,~uld be;5~,¢~eet based on Lhe future pt)te..nt~of the,?~jb[-z3r-way Le servr~ five or more lots, ©r~,J~tnua~,.y, 1~8, 200.1. tEe'7-B~, granted a vanance form as a bw h~]the,~'~=ht-t~f-w~y ~ I~e:c.,bnS.!.ructod [o a minimum w[d[h..ol: '~'~re, et. '~s Jaly 25. ;2,,,,~93. ~he.l~ew York DEC cond Jcted a s t.~.~ ns~¢t on (~n. O,c[Ober 22, 2003 the New York D. EC .sent ,'~, I.e~.~r te the~.apph(k'artt, stat~ng the w~dth of the ?oad~¥a~y v~,o;ul~ h..~t chan~. In ~d~[ion, tho letter reqai~s;re.~oca{i~..th~.e madw~3~ to ..~e.'.east, away from tidal wetia~ i~ l.wo'l~ations an~J'~i~d fi~[o bo placed in Iow Board of Trustees 63 January 21,2004 areas. Pursuant to 288 of New York State Town Law and Section 123 ,- I'm sorry, 100-235A of the Southold Town Zoning Code, emergency vehicle access must be 50 feet in Width and any improvements would be in violation of the DEC ruling. Based upon such, the applicant currently has one option to. abandon t~e current right-of-way, relocate the right-0~-waY lan~wa~d, AnY new prOPOsal mUst be reviewed and approved by the DEC~ Se i WOUl¢ think that would be thetwo, the DEC and~e~ZBA deCisiOns~am in conflic,,t with one ~no~her, FRO~I~ ?v~ ~llairmao,; can [ a!so point ~U[tha~ [ have reC~! D:~¢' i°s~iO0 i~,opposz'ti~n to p]acemen~;of:~he roa~ TR&.STEEKRUPSKI: I referenced that. MR. HEFR.ON: There's also a third document, a memo by Scott HSgh.es, Si~nior'Envi~onmental Plann,er dated August 13, 2003 ~'.'~f~'S'oSffi61~l"~Fb~n TrUstees and; hiS last paragraph he s~y.,: '~My recommendation is to disapprove the proposal SO, ':hat's what I~ve been advised in the state of the record ~¢~ t~e ~¢~bt e~ the~env~ronmental evidence about TR.~ST..EE KRUPSKI: A!I right,;now I'm going to ask a question: How r~e~¢n~ is this'Board's d~ sion n light of the fact that yo.u ha .~.e two et.her juriSd!¢tion:al agencies in conflict? T. SL.$Ti,.EE FOSTER: W~ire in Conflict with them all the time. 'PRU~'[..EE KRUPSKh BUt you,re going to be in conflict with t~..~ni.o~e ~ay or the other, E': BB;QW. NELL JOHNSTON: You can use whatever they use to make YeU~¢~. :~e can ESe that to help make our decisions b~ ~.~¢~¢e rfbt bound 'by their conclusions. TRL.'. $~EE FOS..TER: He dO.es all the mspecbons for the Board a.~d, they stand by his decisions. Every time I've ever dealt wit. h'tl~em on many, many projects, Jerry's done the idsBac~'ior~s aBd [he Board a;Sides by his inspection and ".£" ~ '1 · . recommendation. T~EE't~JNG: I don't agree with (inaudible). MR' A~;I~.FF: May I shedsome light on something? TR~EE f~BUpSKh Wait juSt one moment. So, if you make a d~ci.sio.~, ia ane direction, the applicant, you're putting t ',l~e'Cap~lican[ in a box that they're going to be in violation o~'6i~t~er the DEC or the ZBA or both. There's no middle ground b.(.;t~i;'(~h t~ae, two agencies. M:R. A~.N~FF: I don't agree. 63 Board of Trustees 64 Januaw 21,2004 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Now go right ahead. MR. ARNOFF: I don't agree with that conclusion because the letter to the DEC to Which you're referring, okay, came as a result of us changing the scope of the application to widen the road: We're not now widening the road: if you read Mr. Goehringeds determination, we don't need te widen it, so now we!re back tO,the initial statement of the: DEC where they;had no probiem with the application. So in reality Mr: Goe~dnge~ not saying widen the r°ad to 15 feet all t~;way,d0Wn, -i'hat:~ nC, hew I read it~ SO! dOntthink Th~re.;~;e,e'~fii,~ i~°U a~e ~-if roaa.~o :~ ~,fee~ ~i,{h~'Wa~ We,re. not: we!~e C[~?g the five feet ef' t~ees. We're clearing [he tm~s, sa~gdhdJng the st~mps but we're no[ widening it. You ~p~e~ ~hat in Mr. G'°~h'ringor'~' recommendation. A~~ h~t~;¢oJ~ is say ng b~ cloaring, it -- the 15 feet doesnt{ h~e~o '~e the road b~d. It has to be to ~llow 15 We':'e doiag tha( ~y cuLtingtthe trees o9 ~h~la~d~a~d side o[ tho ~i~bt-o¢~Yay{where needed. That'S TR~= -KRUPSkI: This Board nev~h°Ugh{ that was a good idea; n last m go ng ~ put the word2[o Lhb D~G~s mO~th and I bet y~3u '[b~y cons~e~ed ta~iog aD.the ~ out ~rfive feemail ~ W~Y alg~g,.[h~ right-of-way, M R. ~R;NOFF: Only ~he. ~rees within 15 feet, TRUSTEE K~UP~I: ~o m~ that's wi~eni"g. That's not keeping it the.,~; tba['s w~ening. T~TEE FOSTER: I['s only [or omorgency vehicles. I would I: I mean we didn't look at that. We didn't talk ~hat's totally different than what about~ ~just as soon leave it the way it is. certain trees that had to come down. Would come down on the landward side n the weSt side. Ti¸ itor~ M~: si~e; that's to give them the width they ! have to do it on either side, you can do do it on the east side. that. To limit any 64 Board of Trustees 65 January 21,2004 TRUSTEE FOSTER: What is the deeded right-of-way there? MR. ARNOFF: It's 50 feet. TRUSTEE FOSTER: So if you can put that road anywhere within that 50 feet? MR. ARNOFF: That's where we got into trouble. Because -- the BEC doesn't want us to do that. You see we originally came before you and said we'll put that 15 foot swath, if you will, wherever you want within the 50 foot · And then what happened was that's when the 9o whatthey wante~l to do, they're not e~st..s,, in the anU it s give me a chance to finish. bad habit. guys have to do that. But you know, Lbo i;ieht-of.-way ,can bo anywherewithin the 50 feet. If you wine! ~iLIiin the 5(),, it can go on one extreme side of the 50, it'dobsn't r;0atter: So. il' all the trees on 'the east side of the ~;ight,c4"-way 'aB Qpposed to Lhe creek side are taken oown !.o ac.b, ieve a. !ittl,e:&addiU.bna width it doe~.n~t really make ,.,.r.~y d,dference. ~bw. I don t know if ~n do~ng.so you wdl §¢.t od[side o¢ tha, L line. 50 foot -- M.R.,/~RNOFF: Nb. we will not. I'R .IdS'~EE FOS~R: ~h.en Lho ZBA does not have a problem or anyUody -- prefei'~'bli¢ t~,~ako, Lhe trees down on the east i~'~ '~ ~.~d.we would be w' 'ng to st'pu ate that we ~;~;~dI~?hly tO.~c~i~0 plant matenal on the east s~de. 'FRLI'.'S.'.TEE.F©S~FER' And I remember discussing that But the other~chang¢:th~y made was in reference to excavation that ther,= re'al!y s~o.~ld be none. The trees should be cut, the ~tumps,should [~e gr.z)und instead of excavation and a double -- in bLher wo.(ds., the road is. yes, it's going to have to bo imp'roved. 'bu"t you want to do it totally to the landward !~ AR~OFF: Corr~ect. dSTEE ,D CI~RSON The reason for the 15 feet's for ;e~ge~ c:~ veh~,les. ~E~iFO~,ER: Emergency vehicles to pass, yes, ~li ~ '~. ~EE;D'C.K, ~RSON: So as opposed to paving it to make it ~d ~ssiSl~, you'~ s~ying the trees aren't going to be there. ~,ARNOFF: Yeah, we're not paving it. ~TEE FOSTER: Right. Normally then they require a three 65 Boa~rd of Trustees January 21, 2004 foot drivea hie shoulder on either side and on a m~nor subdivision they sometimes include that six feet into the total width. But now what Jerry's saying is improve the ex~sting right-of-way by putting a double layer of stone down, cut the trees on either side to achieve additional width, but it doesn't matter whether you cut it on either or you cut it to the east side, stay within the 50 foot dght~of;way. You certainly can't put the road up on either one of the. rocks. I'~IR. A~NOFF: No. TRUSTEE ~N.G: [ would rather see this removed -- I don't want to s.ayre~0v~'ail trees within five feet, but it should be rem~)~,.e necessary trees within five feet of the existing Absolutely, that's fine. KING: But it doesn't say that. t says here, remove ; feet east side of the right-of-way, or bt-of-way? I don't think he means that we're going to clear -- well, we would .whether or not your attorney said it, that's not what we want. We 9 necessary you remove up to five feet. Fbr s part of the right-of-way which are 15 l here right now, we don't have to do to make it anoth ar five o~trees, Ithink it's clear that's not ,,"~h~ Mr. G.oe, hringer means TRUSTEE FOST. ER: Well, he needs the five feet to achieve the in some places, that's correct. Not to clear every tree, only trees that ' within five to achieve the additional. That's correct but he doesn't say that. ER: Well, that's what he means. people have we come in here and say, to do a little trimming. King, I certainly would be willing to client that we That's not what we're looking to and I know that the I also see by the hour that it's Mr. Hefron, and I know to think tlhat we can move this own the land. We can't touch this the properties to the east and Board of Trustees 67 January 21,2004 west of us of the Diachun properties, we would be leaping for joy right now because, one, we wouldn't be here; and two, this right-of-way would be moved instantly. We can't do it legally. We can't force it. We are stuck with what Justice -- I think it was Underwood said in his decision. We're stuCk with the Zoning Board, and this is what we have. Sothis is the hand we were dealt, if you will, and these are the cards we have to play. it would be said, its, not possible. I've gel one mer~ qu}eStion. ;, sir. : What about water and utilities? / already have water. For the well? it's already in the file. r the other properties, I I don~t know anything about the other (RUPSKI: I'm not trying to make trouble or hard Jst don't want to get into a '. going to approve something and then rtherout are going to say, no, now ~ certain width, now we have to trench it ; 30 foot. Now the town or have got to trench it into city water· My ,understanding that this existing up to the very edge of the last lot; correct. The Water Authority and the Health Department ~ water. Well, you know city water isn't available down well in. have the Board of Health permit for a well. but I mean the properties to the north of you. if water ever becomes available, which means ~ . %,; .~r .";~.,"',.'~I;i · -- .1' '~ t ,'. , ~.,..,:>l ;~.- ~I~U ;SK: There's water on Peconic Bay Boulevard, J,q i~iECHALLO,CK: Yeah. T~ ~¢F~E KRUPS~KI: That's the first road they brought it into. TRJ ~E~E FO,S-[ER: Right. But if the Water Authority takes t~ ~* A~iVe to p~ water down there he's ob ated b ~bh Bepa~ment to hook u p. Let me back up a little 67 Board of Trustees 65 January 21, 2004 bit. If there was water down that road, he wouldn't get a well permit. Being as there's no water down that road and no intent to put water down that' road, he got permission to put in a well. I went through this a few years ago. Believe me, so I know the whole stow. So, when and if supposedly now, they put a covenant on your deed or they probably will put a covenant on your deed that if and when -- Harvey, I'm sure you're familiar with this -- if and when which is probably the water perm its to can't make him. and nobod~ well pcrmiL, the next Cnever up to Peconic Bay Boulevard. They gave him a anted him to put public water in, or : I wanted to. bring, that up. I wanted to ask that. TRUSTEE F0~STER: I wcntChrou;gh a sx month horror show with the h,Fa[th department w~f~'my house, so I know exactly what you're g'o~ng th¢ough. MR./NR:~OFF: There's one more thing, I would hope that we could?b¢¢¢ s~m~e;.,fiSality to this tom, hr. Leaving this o~en ~f;:~Sib:~s ~ ~. Atkinso~ so I submit he sub~~ ~,the Bb.fd th nk everybody's sub~¢d~. I,.do~t knew other than a rehash of what yeu h~ ~en't b~¢~ what ~at would aCCe~l~: i;'~srse~ i~e that up to your good g~e. MR. the stan, Well, I think something's got to ~been hanging around long enough. We've got to decision. I know but it's a matter of protecting the Town. atter of convenience, I mean, come on. thing, Mr. Chairman? Sure. ~kes care of variances and various Your jurisdiction concerns don't have boundless You have to conform to This prows~on of the Town Code Section 97-28, and it says that you can 68 Board of Trustees 69 January 21,2004 grant permits only if you determine the following things: There's no evidence in the codes that you can oven get by hurdle A. Can you say the installation of this road adjoinir)g a wetlands, I mean it's an absurd invasion of the wetland that the DEC does not tolerate basically, and they said it.in their papers but (A) says you can only make the determination to grant the permit if you can find that granting the permit will not substantially adversely affect [hd,~tlands of the town, Whatever the ZBA wants to do, th~ C~, do~ bu~t yQu;: dop't h~Ye'to foll°W.:~bem. Y(~u have a diff,,~,'~?,ht Charge: you ha~v~ a diffeJ'ent public,trust than the ZBA .:Joes. think it would be completely"' i~nsis~ent With vour, mission to grant approval et a road abiJtt]n, g a send, Live tidal wetland. We have. in the reC~!~ tho~se three itcm~s that I ref.erred to. Every single one of~:~h,~m~§ays do notj~:Jt the road next to tho woLlar~d, period, ~b~w, 1 don't [hir~[ '..'ze need to b.e codcerned with mo. vingl;he roa~cl or not mo.v!ng~.the read. Tho question is: Is'.ther(~ e ba~i~s to put !.h'o Cz~d; in such aplace as to disturb the wetland and cause asso. cihrgd onviror~mental prolblems? I don't Lhink that you can c~oL over Lhat hurdle...Your d~tcJsion, it you grant this per~'~it, it's insp~pOdable on. the record. 'l'~re'sl no basis !.o gr~-~Tt ~t f~n".d it ju,~t/lies in t~e face of your own sta~uta.,'y r~andate, n add t on to wh ch based on the ro.ccrd ~'~nd,tho comme.~ts of the environme[~tal expor!.s who weigh.ed in you m.ay very well be.~eq~Jirod to do an environ .men:tal --'E~kF leng term beca[Jse each one of these l. hrec~ su~mi~Kiorts.,.by environ~pental oxpert~'ind~icates that you: got' a. sen .siti~ we!~l~nd and '!.ha~L this is a significant dis!.u;rban,ce,of this. You're having,a signi'ficant effect on tho o.'wir(.)nntont 'if you were to approve [his action, and I don't see that 'the grouadwork has been laid in terms of the enVirohfh~h~ ~a'ly~si~ to suppo~Jt. TRUe,TEE KRUPSK]: MR. HAL.L.©.CK: May I a~,k a,i ~u~tion. 'I'RU~T'EE ;KRIUPSKI: Sure. MR. I-tALLC~,I~: I'm Jeff Halleck. I'd just like to ask that road with the DEC wh; Christ Arfsten, think everybody as well as Ronald Diachun, ~erwhat he said to us. He ~ here? The road is existing. The dar Let the man build his that to us? I remember. Board of Trustees ?0 January 21,2004 MR. HALLOCK: That's all I'd like you to think about. What are we all doing here for a year and a month? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. TRUSTEE FOSTER: You know the ZBA granted relief from those standards and that property for probably the last 30-plus years or more to the west side of that road. Those wetlands have suffered from tires, trucks, old tractors, drain oils, old o~1 filters, hydraUlic filters, hydraulic pistons, leaky rear which is still this tcith it. I w~]:l he's suggesting a CCA cU~ curb or whatever alo'rlg ~g a lot of precautions here. I can't s~e pqtting !¢.ur. rivo. or six ~nches of RCA blond do~*~n and, drivir)g;..a,' vehiclo on that as opposed to dn~r~g~ ~n. and out of,'the:.m~d holes that s there, how that's goir~] Co hurt~ani/~hing. 'l~ight hurt your feelings to the pe.~ple e'n the et, her s~d¢,.~.o[ the creek cause they didn't get their way.- b,u,t I!.ddn~,J, thii~J~ .onvironmentally it's any impact at al,. RO§~rd,,. . e'~s,., of,.'~vha~t.J~e.,. . . env ronmonta experts, say. mcat ~h;b,~'re,¢~Sit~ what!thoy're supposed to say 'I'R'~S'FEE~KR~PSKI: l(e~. Peg what are your, thoughts down there9 'I'R~STE.E;PO. E,_,.~. ©DA: :tin the five foot of.clearing? 'FR'ICS~6~. KR~,~---~KI ~o, on the who o project TR~,S~E-C'.PQbt~t~'.¢.DA; 'Fhe whole project? My gut feeling, yeah ~ts ,;nvi'.'o n di~ta'lly¢la mag~ng TRQ,~'EE~' '"K~'h ~,e~jgy? r Rtc'ST~?E~I.~..',~I~8. O'1~.', They have an existing road and they want to put cru.~.h(~d .¢ock,s ebqt. TRU. S FE,E Fe .~'..-FER: By not g~wng permission to put that in there isr~'~t g. oir~;to stop the activity down there. I mean, that.guy '~h.at li~.~.tt'~oro is still going Lo drag that stuff up af~d d¢~vn, the,:road. That isn't going to change anything. TRUSTE~ POIJ,. ,I~6)DA' I personally don't feel bad about him layiBg the' s;LcJn'O ~own. but. f he has to start c ear ng five teet.now.'then c¢Srh.e.back and 15 more [oet later, then thorb's a prcb, le~. MR. ARN;OFF: ~hy not a covenant not to go any further than the ;t,5 fe~? ?0 Board of Trustees ?~ January 21, 2004 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Jim, what do you think? TRUSTEE KING: That's my feeling. MR. ARNOFF: I can't speak for the Diachun, but as far as my client and my client's property we will limit the right-of-way to the 15 feet, period. We don't want to even - look. We would just a soon leave everything as it is except filling the pot holes. They're not letting us do that. Wdte it in the permit, restdct the permit, if they violate the permit. Write it in the permit. If they violate the. yank it. We can approve it; we can take KRUPSKh Can I make a suggestion? And I've been looking to find a plan, and I can't find one applicant seems to be proposing. It ~hould be in there. : Ye~, sir. We draw about six surveys. The last trouble and we tried to straighten ~ little bit further away. TPJ¢STEE K~tLrPSKI: I stilt wantto see those bends str~-~!;'hLcned. Jldn't let us straighten them. That's what the letter from the DEC is That's what the DEC wants, but that's not There's two places adjacent to the wetland. FOSTER; I ~wasn't aware of that. KRUPSKh I mean those two are basically in the Thos~ two areas have to be straightened out. ~: lijust want to mention, the DEC letter, in the it says: Ifa wider roadwayis needed for should investigate alternative access reater than 75 feet from the tidal FOSTER: That's been done. That was done Within 75 feet is an area of great concern to ,se of environmental sensitivity. KRUPSKh We did investigate that at length I will adopt that language ad nauseam But it comes back to your mandate, what Protect the environment, and is in the form of mandatory You must make certain findings and the record ,rt them. ?l Board of Trustees ?2 JanuaW 21,2004 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's what we're working on. I'm still looking for that original plan Which I'm sorry, but you can help me out by providing me with one? TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Al, can you cladfy again what the DEC's final decision was? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh My concern is do we want to say okay, and theDEC says no, TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well, they don't always make the same decision_we do:. E: E ~ JOHNSTON: I know they don't, but I want to make sure that , we"re saying something. (inaudible) Well now, that's what the applicant : to not widen it. That's what I'm saying. But I need to see every little detail. I can vote on that, I need to see every on a survey including the two -- It~at shows the two areas adjacent to the wetlands moved upland. ']'RUS,.,T.EE: D!,CKERSON: That we asked for?. 'I'RU?:g,TEE KRUPSKh That we asked for. T R u'.S~TE ~., D;IC K E R SO N: Yes. TRU~..B. I~UPSKI: That's the survey that I want to see. TRLIS,~TE~B ~I~CKERSON: I thought we did. TRU..~.'.T...:.E~ K:~,UPSKI: I'm looking for that plan. TRU;S:-J-E~ F.(A.$TER: Yeah saw it with my own eyes. r'.lR. ,"~R',NOFF: Becausc remember you asked for that and we ']'RU~t~ I~ UPSKh I never saw it. TRU~-~,_BF_p~ ..~ ;KERSON: It was May 25, 2003. JF.:FF~E~tH1, _~[_OCK. its pretty confus ng which one ~s which one is which. -I RUS~[,~:EE,~ ,~PSKI: Okay, the DEC agreed that the roadway ~'.,ou.l~l,,~..~l~i~.~d to the east away from the tidal wetland in TRU.~.'I,:BE D'~KERSON: Right. JEI-i'.-!~.~'HALLOC: But not widened TRLI',:~.['~E .DICKERSON: No, just moved away. I RU~',~. ~ K~UPSKI: The majonty of the work occurring within tho exj~t~i~g.r<~ad bed. ']'RU~i~' ~!~KERSON: Rioht. TRI. J:,~.~.'.~ t~.~PSKi: Stone and clean fill could be placed -- rem'~.'~"the: ~ said no concrete -- to be placed in some ioca~i~.~h~( ~re very iow on pot holes; this is what was ?2 Board of Trustees 73 January 21,2004 agreed by all parties. The only work that can be approved by the department. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We still don't have the one that shows the road moved away from those two areas. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And that's so they agreed to moving those two locatiOns also. JEFFREY HALLOCK: We have a DEC permit for that. After we moved widen the road according to the map. But this doesn't show that. And ! think that's what your road tha! showed taken out a few ¢ said in the letter. Although ;ladfy - no, dQesn't do what JeYry nt to remove all the ti~ees f said. Doing, what what We sa[ct Jerry meant to say. [ he mea~s, DEC for some reason said 16 feeti a ligt~r saying that we of'15 (inaudible).. That's an.d. - ~[naudible). what the Board's of It% right here. This is where we got in trouble is because he widi~ned..i~t h~e~. TREISTEE KR~JPSKI: Who widened it? ,JEFFREY HAl' LOCK: John Ehlers. On this survey. TRUSTEE KF~0PSKh Well, you have to show us a plan that doesn't t~ave it.widoned. I mean, that's wh~- u~e caf~ote on something, you know we can't vo~?. . . JEFFRJ~Y HALLOCK, Thrs ~s showing 16 feet instead of 15. T~ST~ KRUPsKI; But you can't sl~ow a plan that's 15 either. What thi~ Board was.llbOking at ~,as a plan showing the eight foot ma~'k Ter~ ret~.e, renced it eight foot wide road bed, and t's gc~ to s~d~v 'tt~ exi~tihg ro~d bed. It's got to show a few rerfloved [rees Wherever you want to remove the trees, show them on the survey, and then it's -- am I right so far? -- It,s gOttO show the ,two locations where the road is meyed, ~ind Y0U want to see restoration to those two areas, you! wa~t t.o s~e ~t~replanted, filled, what do you want to see' so -~ See ~! ~.~u, ~ove the roadway, that water's still g0i~g to pou~' d~ in both directions into the wetlands. So we ~ant t0 Seei ~e' remediation of those two areas, but you h~ve to Show th~, and I feel uncomfortable making up that ?3 Board of Trustees ?4 January 21,2004 JEFFREY HALLOCK: That fine dotted line is what's proposed. The fine dotted line is the existing roadway. TRUSTEE FOSTER: We issue the permit and put the terms of the permit in the permit. Don't they notify you before construction begins, you go down there, they're violating the permit, you yank the permit. (talking) TRUSTEE KRUPSKh If we're going to approve something, it's got to bp:what you~ say it's going to be and not what Jerry . gol.ng to say. It s got to be exactly on the What the survey is the only thing that's should be saying what is the changed road ~s missing is what trees are going e not doing a landscape plan for you; is I mean, I'm not. Do you want a No, more of a restoration. I'm saying there's not an awful lot of It's got to be pinched It's got to be shown lg to be moved..even if you move it east, the old road's still pinched in there. :)CK: This is what you guys asked for. Every time g, I did what you asked me. If we go I paid for s~x surveys now, each one You tell me to do it and I do it, and me it's not what you wanted, and I He can't move any further from here or right-of-way. You want us to cut all those trees down, I'll TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But we do in those two areas. ar~S, M~i~RNOFF: Which two areas are we talking about? TF~TEE KRU(PSKI: Well, I guess this one and definitely this onS;;:~ut there is r,o, om. I mean, we were in the field. MRL ~IALLOCKi Its done here. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No, but this is still against the wetland, this ha¢ ~,ot to be moved away.from the wetlands. M~RNOFF: But the DEC is saying -- TRii. J~T'EE KRUPSKI: They said theywould allow us the two areas. ?4 Board of Trustees 75 January 21,2004 JEFFREY HALLOC: No they would not, not that area. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well listen, this is all quoted. Additionally, it was agreed that the roadway could be shifted to the east, away from the tidal wetlands in two locations, the majority of work occurring within the existing road bed. MR. ARNOFF: Right. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Sothose two locations -- ,I~FE~EY HALI~OCK: Two locations right here. MP~ A~NOFF: 1/Ve'~'e alrea.d,,y done it on the survey. TRUSTEE ~UPS, KI: I didnt see that. M:FL-. ~EI:O~,:...I~: First location was where we first came in, sthe one here. e two we were concerned that was bad, against the. !.idal ~,vo!.l~nd? TRUSTEE DICK.ERSON.: I'RUSTr:-.E Fosi-ER: TRUSTF~.E DI~K, ERSON'.: You Id this road bed show right up )nsistent. ~night be - amount of large trees. other obstacle there I Whythat one couldn't be MR, HALLOOK: These were the (~nes when we walked the field yo,u',a~d me to have it moved. You marked it on the survey when ~e were there. I marked it on the survey when I had it there, and I asked the Board isthisthe -- we were in the two pla~oes, w~e walked in the road I showed you, you wanted to re~e~nce where we were co tt~e map because you were think[~when, we n~ade !his b ,e~d! (inaudlbl~) to someplace else.ad~ there Were a few big trees as We went up here too. ~u k~ ~w, o~ce agai~!, w.e'll,.do whatever you want. TRUSTEE :DI~KER$ON: As ePpqs: e~ to getting a new survey, wou~ld ypu b~ te'r~i~Y u!pset if ~ w~lked it ~gain with that survey'with us? Just to be sure that it's showing because it's h~ar~t -- TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It should show the correct width. MR. AI~NOFF: Okay. If you can redraw itto show 15 feet that's -- MR. HALLOCK: I'm eight foot. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We could approve 15 feet all day and the DEC's 75 Board of Trustees 76 January 21,2004 going to say no. MR. HALLECK: Well what happened is this Board asked me to have a 15 foot right-of-way, but for some reason when I got the letter it said- 16 feet. John Ehlers said what should I do, it says 16, and I said, if it says 16 make it 16. So I think it says under 16. MR. ARN;OFF: You can draw eight on there just as easily as you can draw 16. I mean, you know, it's not going to make a big difference. Hecan redo that. 'FRLJS'FE~DJ~KERSON: My concern is because we did ask for Bo, a,hd we can't sit her~ tonight and say are you talking thOse, t:wo or, thOse t~vo. ¢¢0uld it be better to walk this and be su, re. TR;U8%EEKRUPSKI: Yeah, either way, you can see it in the snow. Sure. Yau C,a~ see it today. TR~J~iFEB DtCKERSON: I'm just trying to suggest something tt~at ~pgld::prevent him from having to go and pay for another surc~,ff this oi~e is correct and we -- MR. ~1~IOFF: It is c,orrect other than the -- make it eight inste~.of~':~ 16, Ican probably have that to you probably w'[hi~r I week. TRU~ i~KRUPSKI: Okay. TRUI ~EE;!FOSTER: Go out, take a look at it. MR., .NOFF: So we're going to close the hearing other than ;',submission of the amended survey? MR. I FR;ON: If they re going to submit an amended survey, I do'n't ~ e w;hy on behalf of Matthew Atkinson, allow him to subn' f~'baSed on his file and his contact with his clients. J rnean~. TRU~EE KRLJPSKI: Let him submit what2 MR. HEFRON: Further comments because with respect to the appli~ion. TRU$~FE KRUPSKI: Of course. Sure. They have proposed to cut the roadway in half. MR. HEFRON:i ~ I understand what you're saying, but I still am insis~Rg on behalf of these people that your mandate of th s B~ia?d is to protect the environment. TRU~EE KRUPS_K,I: Of course. MR. ARNOFF: Don t tell this Board what its mandate is. I'm tired ~,fiyou telling this Board what its mandate is. This E~eard has been in existence long enough to know their meridian. TRU~EE KRUPSKI Well we get told a lot of things but that's aldght. MR. BEFRON: Read the Town Code. MR. ARNOFF: I have read it. I'm sure the Board is famBar w~th it. ?6 Board of Trustees 77 January21,2004 TRUSTEE KRUPS KI: Okay, boys. MR. ARNOFF: They don't need lectures from Mr. Hefron. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to Table this application and. it's going to be on he agenda for the field inspection for February 20th. MR. ARNOFF: Back on the agenda for what date? TRUSTEE DICKRESON: 25th of:February. MR. ARNOFF: We'll have a survey foryou shortly. TRUSTEE. KRUPSKh Good, thankyou. TRUSTEE~KING: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE FOSTER: I want the record to reflect that I may not be here next month. TRUSTEE KING: Okay. I'm going to table Number 127 Make a motion to table Number 12 because we haven't had a chance to nspect Over there. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second. TRUSTEE KING: All in favor? ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to go back to the regular meeting? TRUSTEE DICKERSON: So moved. TRUSTEE KP, UPSKh All in favor?. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do have a motion to adjourn the meeting? TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second. TRUSTEE K~RUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES. Meeting adjourned at 11:45 PM. RECEIVED AP~ 2 7 2004 77