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TR-03/24/2004
Alber~ J. Krupsld, President James King, Vice-Pre~ident Artie Foster Ken Poliwoda Pegsy A. Dickerson Town Hail 53095 Route 25 P.O. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971-0959 Telephone (631) 765-1892 Fax (631) 765-1~66 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Present were: Absent was: MINUTES Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:00 PM Albert J. Krupski, Jr., President James King, Vice-President Kenneth Poliwoda, Trustee Peggy Dickerson, Trustee E. Brownell Johnston, Esq. Assistant Town Attorney for Trustees Lauren Standish, Secretarial Assistant Artie Foster, Trustee CALL MEETING TO ORDER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE NEXT FIELD NSPECTION: Monday, April 12, 2004 at 8:00 a.m. TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve, TRUSTEE DICKERSON seconded. All AYES. NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, April 21,2004 at 7:00 p.m. WORK SESSION: 6:00 p,m. ' TRUSTEE DICKERSON moved to Approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES, L MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustees monthly report for February 2004. A check for $1,365.95 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General Fund. II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the ToWn Clerk's Bulletin Board for review. III. APPLICATIONS FOR AMENDMENTS/VVAIVERS/CHANGES: TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Before we start I see at least one postponement under Public Hearings, Number 10, John Betsch has been postponed. I guess that's the only one. I'm sorry, Number 1, Anna Ackerhas been postponed under Amendments. If anyone has any commems under amendments, please step forward quickly because we'd like to move through these. 2. RQBERT GRISSEL requests a Transfer of Permit #1834 from William Nicol to Robert Grissel, and replace the pilings on the existing dock. Located: 1705 Fleetwood Road, Cutch0gue. SCTM #137-4-36. TRUSTEE KRUP~SKI: Peggy, would you like to make a motion? TRUSteE DICKERSoN: Wes, 've looked at th s 'd just ke it to ~ay itis a transfer, but it shou Id be repair of the exis§ng¢catwalk. He ~ga'nts to repair that instead of Pilings~ , TRUSTEE. KRUPSKh Is there a second? TRU,S~EE KING: Second. TRU.'.~ EE KBUPSKh All in favo_?, ALL AYES. TP, US~'E~E DICKERSON: He didn t say that he wanted to change the I¢l~g~s. TRuS~Ei= KRUPSKh He can do that now under the new code. ~]e;has the permit in his name, so he can repair that now. MS. STANDISH: And the pilings mentioned in this permit -- TRu~STEE KRUPSKh If he wants to, he can replace them. MS. STANDISH: 14 of them? So we need to change this then. Original permit has 14, if you want to transfer the permit the way it is then he has to. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh She's right. How many pilings are there? TRUS3'EE KING: E ght plus a -- 10 all together. MS. STANDISH: We want to amend it to say the eight? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Condition it to replace it and mainf~e~,ance of existing structure as of -- here, I'll give it a s[a~p as of this date. All in favor? ALL AYES. 3. ROBERT A. AND CHERYL SCHEIDET request a transfer of Permit 5241 from Marc and Anna Clejan to Robert A. and Cheryl Scheidet. Permit issued to construct a single family dwelfing with attached garage and deck, pervious driveway, sanitary systems, dry wells, and a 50' non-disturbance bufferwith a 4' wide cleared' path. Located: 2570 Clearview Avenue, Southold. Do I have a motion to approve that transfer? TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I11 make the motion to approve with the stipulation that a silt fence and hay bails be set up at that 50' buffer zone. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh During construction? TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Prior to construction TRUSTEE KING: Second. ~RDSTEI:: KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES. 4. JMES P. SWEENEY requests a Transfer of Permit #5381 from,the Walter E. Erickson Estate to James P Sweeney. permit issued to install a 77' Iow-profile retaining wall. Locate~t: 29.5..?~rMinnbhaha Boulevard in Southold. MS. ~TAN.DISH: t was just amended in the last six months. ~tel,d.' him ~ could.try and get onfor a transfer. It ii::f~'j:'~a ke inSpec~tion, T~D~,~E'K~ps-~: Remember the one with the flag pole and [he ~ [~hbor h~(f the concrete seawa . TRUSTEE DICKEi~SON: Any photoS? TR,UST.EE POLIWODA: This is spartina. TR[dSTEE KRJJPSKh Right. And we made them bring the wall ~:~'a~ ba~k, Yes, met an lan Crowley there didn't we? He was ~etJe~ This ~s~.~ l.ong ~lme ago, Peggy, were you on the TRMS~E B!~K, ERSON: Actually, no. I~S~ ~l~D:l¢~ It was just amended though, f you ook on TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What did we amend it for?. Th at was just a one-year extension. T~USTEE POLIWODA: That sounds correct. TI~USTEE KRUPSKh That's the plan that we approved. I don't remember it, but that flag pole always makes you, and all; it i~, see the neighbors have the concrete seawall, they ~.. ~nt:e;d to connect it in front, but it is spartina, and we aid, 8ome bao~ ~nd that spart naw II all come back nicely. [s.~here,a mC/ion.to approve the transfer of permit? f~'rbE, ai~KERSON: Make a motion t;approve. TRD~EE I'~G: Second. T,~uS~EE K~UPSKh All in favor?. ALL AYES. 5. Paul Caminiti, Esq. on behalf of MATTHEW F. STANTON requests a Transfer of Permit #2109 from William and Susan Trawick to Matthew F. Stanton for the existing dock, ramp, and fl0at. Located: 2725 Wells Avenue in Southold. SCTM #:70-4-16. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I looked at this one, if you see the plans there's a note that the project has been built two feet longer than the description, and they would like to transfer it with the two feet addition, the additional length out into the creek. I didn't have a problem with it, and I met the owner on the site, and I believe he'd have to keep the boat inside of the project, landward of the project, you know what I mean? TRUSTEE ~UPSK]: No, it shows it sticki,,ng straight out. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Right. He wouldn t be allowed to have hts bo~.~ TF~S~EE KRUPSKI~ I see what you mean ~T~STEE POLIWODA: Creekward of that. I don t have a problem with tl~_e~,foot addition, -~Rt~TEE KRUPSKI: Do you want to make him amend it on paper? extra catwalk? -: PQLIWODA: Yes. It's very small. I didn't have a feet. Okay, just have him, Ken, transfer it with ' 21 foot fixed dock. Tell him we'll he's not going to get the transfer a ppen on a transfer within the last He just transferred in October. When they were ~,.property, they never transferred it They transferred it first, sold it and now · !.he~ 'i-e t~'ansforring to the new owners, but it was just done TR I~E ,KRUPSKh So we want to see them change the r hPil ?~i' ~h'ey:need, before we give them the transfer they ~ ~eSt a~'amendment and change their permit to ~.~ ~'U. nstructed 'and to put in the permit that the boat cap' t!b ;,moored any fur[her seaward than the dock. M~, ~ AF4DISH: 'The permit is for what's out there doesn't m~ TR ~EE KRUPSKI: That's correct. It was built two feet Ion, ~. We'll approve it, they just have to apply for it to be ~'roved. T~ TEE POLIWODA: Is that a motion? TR ~EEKRUPSKh Yes. TR ~EE POLIWODA: I'll second. TR~ ~''-~EE KRUPSKh All in favor? ALL AYES. MS (_A'~DISH: So we approved it? TRI f~KRUPSKI: No. We approved the transfer on the coni eBofthem applying for ,a,n amendment. MS'. T,~NDISH: So they won t get that letter of transfer 5 until they apply. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right. Until they apply for an amendment for the as-built size plus the condition that no boat can be moored on it further seaward than the dock, so it doesn't 'stick out of the navigational lane. MS. STANDISH: All right. MR. JOHNSTON: Let the recora show that no one regarding that application was present. TR, USTEE KRUPSKh Do I have a motion to go offthe regular ~Reeting?' U~TEE POLIWODA: So moved. ,~.~!~ K~U PSKI: Second? ~ig;STEB DICKERSt3N: Second. ~I~T~-~'~ KRUPSKI: All in favor? ALL AYES. IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS: THIS..I¢;.,~.=PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING ~PE. ii2A~ION$ FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD, i HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM ~H~ S[jF~OLK TIMES. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRI~R'TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF. FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESS IF POSSIBLE TRUSTEE KRUPSKh And identify yourself and sign in and we'll have a clear record. 1. David ConNin on behalf of KENNETH L. STEIN requests a Wetland Permit to remove 107 linear feet of deteriorated bulkhead and reconstruct in the same location with vinyl sheathing. Located: 2535 Cedar Lane, East Marion. SCTM #37-4-10. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there anyone who would like to comment on this application? If no public comment, does the Board have any comments from being on the site? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I don't think we had any thing negative to say about the project proposed, fairly straightforWard. I'm looking through the file. CAC recommended approval of the application with the condition that the current non-turf buffer be maintained. With that, if there's no other public comment, I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES? 6 TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to approve the Wetlands Permit on behalf of Kenneth L. Stein. TRUSTEE KING: Second. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh For the record, we received notice today that the n'ew Chapter 97 Wetland Code has been in effect by the state Since March 4th. So we'll be trying to operate under those guidel,ines as much as possible in the future. 2. Joel Daly on behalf of ANN MARINO AND BERNARD TELSEY ,requests a Wetland Perm t to construct a set of sta rs to a new deck and stairs to the beach. Located: 465 Old Harbor Road in~, New: Suffolk, TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is there anyone here who would like to speak for this application? Or against this application? I looked at this. I did find it. I'm just not Sure which house it belongs to, but it was staked out. This [s the Staircase down. This one doesn't have it. inspection, so we have no and this is very similar to a staircase and spot. So, if there are I make a motion to close the hearing. Second. All in favor?. ALL AYES. I11 make a motion to approve the 'Permit to construct a set of stairs to a the beach for Marino and Telsey, Old ~ Suffolk. All in favor? ALL AYES. 3. Meryl Kramer Architect, on behalf of JOHN AND MARION BRANI~'.WOLD ~equests a Wet and Perm t to demolish the existing one-story:frame,house, re-use and modify the existing foutldatiOn, build new one and one-half story residence and expand e~sting,wood frame deck. Located: 1955 Bayshore Road in GreenpUrt. Is there anyone here to comment on this project? MS. KP, AMER: My name is Meryl Kramer. I'm available if the Trustees have any questions. I submitted revised plans that have the, .Septic and dry wells and leaders noted as well. TRUSTEE I~INGi It has everythin9 we're looking for. Any otherconlments on this project? Any Board comments? Make a motion to iclose~ the hearing. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second. TRUSTEE KING: Conservation Advisory Council recommends approval. I'm make a motion to approve the application as submitted. 'TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: In the new code are dry wells, gutters so we shouldn't have to always add that? TRUSTEE KRUPSKk I think so. We have to check to make sure it c~rnplies though. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: But it should be on the surveys coming ik4S. STANDISH: I did tell them. TRLISTEE KRUPSKt: Could you do this next one, Jim? 4. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of STEPHAN KLEIN requests a Wetland Permit to install additional rock armor in, front of the existing bulkhead at 2 plus/minus tons per linear foot and for the e~Jsting stairway. Located: 9202 Bridge Lane, Cutchogue. SCTM #73-2-3.1. Is there anyone h~ere who wishes to comment on this project? MR. COSTELLO: George Costello, Senior, Costello Marine. I believe in 199.2 the Trustees did approve a rock more than three:tOns for this site~ and as you can see on your in~peCti°n, there is' inadequate amount of rocks down there. TRUSTEE K NG: That bu khead to the east is already armored, correct? M~., ;COSTELLO; Yes, correct. TC, d~EE KRUPSK: When were those stairs bu t? M~R. COSTELLO: I don't know. T~US%EE KING Somebody e se own the property?. MR.,CQSTELLQ: Yes. TRU~EE KING: When those sta rs were bu t, d fferent owner?. ~R. C,OSTELLO: Yes. different owner. TRL~TEE KING: Not I~aving the other permit, we can't tell w~i~as on it. T~U~[~TEE KRUPSKh Did the applicant ever transfer this permit into their name for the bulkhead? MR?CQSTELLO: I don't believe so, not at this point. I think I have a copyiof the '92 permit. Are you looking for something on that perrtiit? T~U,~TEE KING: I was looking for the permit for the st~,irway~ MR. COSTELLO: Okay, let me see what have. TRUSTEE KING: I didn't have a big problem with it, but get it on the permit as as-built. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh didn't have a big problem with it either. Write on the permit as as-built, yes. MR. COSTELLO: You may have the same thing. It says something about platform on the bottom half. TRUSTEE KING: This is old stuff. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: When they come in, they should transfer [he permit for the bulkhead, and, I mean, I don't have a problem with approving this tonight. TRUSTEE KING: I don't either. TRU : Then t should also show the stairs stairs with plans, you ime. new survey that shows the you have a copy of it? No, but submit it with when you submit for Jim, could I have that copy back? Any:other comments on this project? I11 close the hearing. I'RUSTB.E; E~IC.I~ERSON: Second. TRUSTEE K'lrS,6: I'll make a motion to approve armoring the bulkhead, and .the ownor's going to come in and take care of TRU TRU rock,';: j~st~ st in ~airs ~ ~ING: Second? ~i~]C~(ERSON: Second. l~;~j3: All in favor? ALL AYES. ~1" 'V~: Do You want to condition that permit2. ~¢ i~R~PSK;I. I don t know ~f you want to cond t on that %~ K;ING: No ~;~ ~UPSKI: When you send them the amendment for the ~t~ a separate le~er to the applicant. We'll id a ~¢~r outto the applicant te ng them to come Cra~fe(¢ and then you can send in the as-built hS"~e~ing at that time. 5. Charles Cuddy on behalf COVE BEACH ESTATES requests a wetlai~fl Perm t to improve the existing roadway. Located: North ~side o$ Route 25, East Marion. SCTM #22-3-9.1. TRUS~Eb KRUPSKJ: Anyone who would like to speak in favor of the apphcat~on., MR. CMDD¥: Good evening, I'm Charles Cuddy. appear on b¢~ hai. f~PfCO~e Beach Estates Also with me is Howard Young a'~d T'e~ ~o per, both of Young and Young of Rverhead who prepat~id ~hiS plan. This is a 105 acre site. t's going to have 12 lots on it. It's done in conjunction with the Peconic Land Trust. Two-thirds of the site is going to be saved through open space easements that have already been ;actually recorded on the site. We had a plan that ran the road somewhat to the east of the present road, that went ~hrough wetlands and because the Peconic Land Trust had a problem with that, we placed the road exactly where it was 'before. The road exists. It's a macadam road. It has to ,be improved though, and when we ~mprove that road we're gbing to. be in3~e~iately adjacent to a pond. So we're asking ~or a permft to perm!t, us to go dgl~t along the road, but ~[t~e U~derStarfamg zhat we'll do eyerything we can Kb mitigate. Certainly we;re nofgo~pg;to harm the pond.. ,1Ne'¥'e~0bgoi. n..:g, ~o t~k'e an~in~ fr0~.the pdnd. V~/e're not go 3~.. [o dopos t an yth n g~the, po~nd, and we j'ust bdn g it I.o your attention bb. cause ~8 'don't have m~ch of an permit for the map that's before so it's part of the record Is there any other comment on this We visited the site last week. don~t have any problem with it. Board have any comment? pond we felt was a man-made pond. And the extensive drainage. Because I was on the Board of Directors of when this project was dis, :i0us Stages, I'm going to reserve my right to rec,b~e mysell. HOwever, I don't really have a problem wi!.li t[;~C~.fprojoct as it's submitted Do I have a motion to )DA: So moved. All in favor?. ALL AYES. Do I have a motion to approve the So moved Second ~KI: All in favor? ALL AYES. 6. Wi~ll',am J. Reese on behalf of ANCHOR LANE, LLC req..,ues~a wetland Permit to construct a first floor wood frar~dition compr's'ng of 407 square feet and 42 square fooEB, I¢o door 360 square foot one stow attached garage, and;!~.~ ~quare toot patio with trellis. Proposed wood fram.'~d second fi0or comprising 1,719 square feet and dry ]0 wells to contain the roof runoff. Located: 1615 Anchor Lane, Sou'[hold. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who would like to comment on this application? ;MR. HANCOCK: Good afternoon, I'm Phil Hancock. I'm the builder for Anchor Lane, and I have some updated surveys for you, and I can answer any questions you might have. TRUSTEE KING: Bring them over here. How many copies would .~fou like? MS. STANDISH: One for the record. ~R~ JOHNSTON: For the record who are you, sir?. Ri H~N~cI~ Phil Hancock, I'm the builderforAnchor Lane, LbC MR. JOHNSTON: Do you have standing here? I mean -- MR. HANCOCK: I'm the builder for this project. ~R, JOHNSTON: I m glad but d~d either r. Reese or Anchor ~i~ you the author ty to speak for them? ME HANCOCK: They have, but I don't have them in writing. ~R. USTEE KRUPSKh Was there some change, some problem? ~R,, HANCOCK: No. The original surveys I subm tted on the a~p!ication d dn't show the dry wells. ~;. JOHNSTON: We can accept the surveys, but he's not ~. ~,~orized to.speak for the people. T~TBE POI~IWODA: Do you know where the septic system is? ~ NA~COC~K:, ~t's on the right side of the building. '¢'~.'~STE~E pOEIW0DA: Over here? That's my recommendation. Sin%, t'~ ~ ,large addition I'd like to see where the s Other than that, I gave it As you can see it's behind the wall's up here. I didn't find a Thank you~ Any other ~ fro~ ~he public? Again, to reiterate my stance as ) looked atthis, didn'tfind any [o [he environment, and I'd like to see the ~.the survey, ~'SKI: Is that a condition of the approval? ODA: I did n't make that approval yet. Any nts? I'll make a motion to close the pi Second. .IWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES. PO'blWODA: I'll make a motion to approve on behalf depicted on the new drawings with the be a septic system placed on it. IP, SKI: I'm not going to stamp that until we get a septic on it. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Fine. Second? TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor? ALL AYES, a 25' [~ 14 7. En Consultants, Inc. on behalf of RITA AND LUKE LICALZI request a Wetland Permit to remove and replace (in-kind and in-place) and raise by 18 inches the existing fixed timber deck, consisting of a 5' X 103' fixed timber catwalk and a fixed 14' X 20' "L" portion at the seaward end. Located: ? 05 Calves Neck Road in Southold. $CTM # ?0~-46.1 TRUSTEE. KRUPSKh'" Is there anyone who would like to speak on behalf 0f the ap, p!ioation? MR. HE.'R[~I~'.~II~ Rob Hermann of En Consultants on behalf of th'e applier,s! ~ta and Luke Licalzi. One of the applicants. Luke Licat,zi, is also present. The application Jn and of itself is faidy sLraightforward. It as~ for the in-kind and in-place repla~rit,Jof ~n existing dock that's dep cted both on the sub~.~ s.~'e~.-~qd:the project p an prepared by us And we ro ~kih¢ tb raice (he dock 18 inches because it is rogularly subme'rged aL Ioas!. spdng high tides. Afl. er submitting !.his application, my attention was drawn on a 2'002. permiL transfer associated with which was a 1945 site plan 'tt~a!. exists in the Board's files that shows a propose¢,~ ~[i'..~ten~ng fromithe deed ne S ecfca the d~cJ~¢~e~l¢~is a 4' by 80' fix, ed dock wth a 21 foot long' "L"*~!on dxbnd ng south from the seaward-most five feet of the.d~ck. The dock that presently exists, and which a 5' by 117' feet longer with g south from the seaward-most the L dis and v resea last for. TO do rt 1945 long I predicted that maintain this entire dock ¢ exists, and there would be at )uld question the the 1945 plan Soanticipating this, I tried to do some had actually postponed the hearing from fair and proper thing to argue [y, well, I and the Board has to First is how different from the existing dock; however different the has the disparity existed, and however has the Board of Trustees ever rendered any decisions that would have legitimized the existing dock? The best answer to these questions I could find I've illustrated in a packet of exhibits plus Dr. Licalzi has brought a couple more, and I'm going to hand up to you a series of exhibits and. then go through them. ~FRUSTEE KRUPSKh Give us six months to review the information submitted. MR. HERMANN: Yes. Or at least six seconds. The exhibits are outlined in the table of'contents to sort of do as quick ;-through. The first exhibit is ~a Arthur Francisco, who is conveniently ~the There have only been the since the '40s that have owned 1954, though it 1946, and there is, ovember 1, dredging that was ~d~ck, and there is a letter 't956'from the tt~en they had; allowed prope~y from the I could find was a 1976 it's one inch equals 100 foot 1976. What you can see is the that exists today, not the dock that apl: been proposed in 1945. So we know that ~ current form since at least ;ce of documentary evidence that is dab ~. TF~i ~EE KRUPSKI: Sorry~ Rob, which one is it? There's aboL 3 docks there. MRS. RMANN: I'm sorry. Yeah, the arrow got blurred out in ~h ~otocopy. If you unfold the document, it's the %" that' i~ht -- TR~!~ ~ KING: Just to the right of the center of the page~? MRs. ~ERMANN: Correct. The one that looks completely white. TI~USTEE KRUPSKh When is that? MR~',!H;ERMANN: This is April 1976. Now, Dr. Licalzi brought a ce~plb photos that he was ab e to speak to Mr Franc sco's da~f~er, who sent him a couple photographs, but before I she~¥ou those photographs, I want to skip ahead to Exhibit 5 b~ause this addresses the question of the disparity bet~en the two docks, at least with respect to the length of the dock. What I did was to increase the scale of your 1945 drawing to one inch equals 20 feet, and photocopied that onto a transparency, overlayed the transparency onto the current survey to which Joe Ingegno added the original deed line, which is also shown conveniently on the 1945 plan. So what you're looking at is an overlay of the proposed dock drawing from 1945 onto the 20(~4 survey showing the existing dock with thefixed waterside deed line as a reference point. And ~his obviously can only be conjecture because we're 60 years ago, but it r. Francisco oaly depicted the a. permiJ from, your Board al that you and 311 from )ils precisely 33 feet th'~tf dXi'sts ge and tl~e ,4leed~ 'FRU'S:FEE KRUPSKh When was the dredge spoil placed? MR~ :~ spoil would have been placed in, I the dating of that photo '47. liCland. MR. HE!R~ANN: Yeah, that was the information the daughter eon '567 question? that you gave me she wrote '46 to ge was deposited on Hallock's It looks like there's spoil in the the notation on that photo may be would make more sense that that photo as you to was '56 to '57, after the dock was built. ~uilt in '47. Is that What we know for a fact? Because the MR. [h Itwas built in '46. When was the spoil deposited? letter about depositing the spoils Island. Maybe I need to correct myself. 14 Yeah, I'm giving you, I gave you wrong information with respect to the spoil, The letter on the spoil says that this is to advise you that I have given permission to Mr. Arthur L. Francisco to deposit some of the spoils from the present dredging operation of Messers Francisco and Henddckson on the portion of the island owned by me called Haliock Beach. So the build up, Of beach in that picture is apparently not the spoil, ~ut wt~atever tti,e_ case may be, it;s sort of irrelevant to the larger point, which we re now los hg, which is the fact that - yeah, that's another photo that I hande~l up, it's not me, but different dock than what's look at the pilings. and the pilings are some time. In fact, that's a good segway to your next exhibit, which is Exhibit 3, which is an ice damago pern~if that was issued by the Boar~l in April 25.1~984. and the photocopy of the dated photograph 'from April '84 I go[ from your file, and that sho:,~/s the oul. or portion of the dock, the %" portion without ~he:t~ ~r,d;s~. ,?:~ o~ ?.,i~ ar~ .: you car~. see that that was obv'ous y ~ere S~t~st~nt[Cl411a~ what was, dep cted n the or gna plan, The point is. at some point between 1945 and 1976 either in its original form or some time between those years, the. dock that exists today was constructed Again, the 1976 aeria~ sc~]es to a five ~oot wide dock with the outer"'b" being what it is today. N¢~, .Dr.. ~ica]zi has spoken to the daughter that says, welli.We dCn~bremeniber ever changing the dock, that was ~hat we thii~k was built originally. Whether they built to four feet and {hen enlarged t to f ve feet n width, don't kSow, T. he o.nly clear thing that can infer from the information that,~ haVe'is that the seaward extent of the dock has a]ways~ b.,een the same because, again, the reference of the ~0,feot ~Wafd extension from the d~ed line is consistel~t with, What.'s~there. The catwalk's a foot wider and the %" wa~,widJ~ned to the landward side. And again, in Exhibit § if you: eok, at the.. overlay the seaward extent is he sanle, the P was constructed larger on the landward side. 'Wh~ther!that,~as cOnstructed in 1946 or 1974 don't have any ~ay 0~!kno'w ng and un ess Mr. Franc sco's daughter could'come here an~l testiCy about it, I don't know that 15 we're ever going to know. However, it is also clear that this is actually the third time the Board is looking at this dock with its current configuration and size. The first time being in 1984 for the ice damage permit and then again as shown in Exhibit 4 in 2002, when Dr. Licalzi submitted a letter to the Board asking that the dock permit of A. Francisco be transferred to him and his wife. And there's notations,on that letterin you r file that show that Ken inspectedthe prope~ a.n,d that rhea in November it was inSp¢.cted by the whole BOard: then tn November 21, 2002, the~as a letter isSUed by (he Board, transferring the ~r~it. There's.another letter in your file which I did not it's a letter from Dr. Licalzi, )ending to a request from the for dock permit transfer was ?epairto be done. Rotting pilings Jredging as apF ~ andthe permit that ;xtent of the deck seaward is .The diffe[eQee in theiwidth of the c.~tw~lR and'the~ width of the %" portion I cannot explain with any cortai.ety. But J would subCni!. [o the Board, thatyour Board has iBsued'two permits en the dock st. rqCtureas it exists in its curreut size ~posilicatio~s. NOw, there,was no formal decision that ror¢rred to sRecific dimensions of the dock sayin, g w.o the Board Trust~ees, hereby legalizethese dim'o,~si(~n~, bul~.you have looked at it t~i~__,e, ~rid you have issu~J~.per~nit¢ for i~ twice. So I would c~r~ainly C~ntend anyw.Cy that tt~at has [o amount to something in terms of the Boar~t. hav. i;ng a¢~no~f~ledged since 1984. that thaz dock exists. Dr. L~al:zi,t.las gictures of people boating and clamming arou~.~tha/~ dockCQr a Ion.(i time. I'm sure tha,t Ken is one of the~ pe. op'le ddifl.(j so. SO. in l:t~o,in[er/~st of reaching a resolution, I'm sure that the I_~l'~i~,wo¢~ft~e Open to some sort of compromise in terms of st~dln~) so~e cf the size off of t n terms of width portions of it, but I ~ir~k (he seav~ard exLent of the dock is pretty historically well (i~t',"fblishod'. Se that would be the extent of my comments in terms ef wll~t bw'as aisle Lo cull out from our research of the reco~i~&~a~.,ava a:b e TRLI~E ,~S,KI: Thank you. Before I ask for Board comment s th~,an~ dJ~er comment? DR. LICALZI: I'd just like to make a comment. Luke Licalzi, I'm the owner. This started out as a pretty simple, straightforward approach. The landward end of the dock is rotten, it's essentially the 37 feet that was the catwalk, and it's :fallen apart, and there's a number of other areas of the dock that need to be refurbished. And you have photos of :the dock. It was deliberately built, the dock, by the previous owner such that at high tide, very high tide it's ~ I think you, ve seen that. So as part of · pla(be!in-kind. I'd like to raise it 18 ht that would acLually be abenefit to the the So, I Thank you. Does the Board have any My only comment is you stick out in the middle of the high view areas. I was go with any type of piles Iow profile, cut y handrails. Peggy, any comment? My only comment is to baymen that were out t~.'.e 8[ber cJa,y we inspected it, they were concerned because it was ~ v~ 'y:prod~Jcti.ve area tor shell fishing. TRU~'~'~ .F KRUPSKI: Jim. do you have any? ~T~ KIN~: I~'s been there a long time. 1;~T~ ~ ERU~SKI: I'd like [o see it rebuilt in its original pe~r~[t,~ JLa. you know. four foot wide width. And the le~,~ ~ h~pk you d~monsLraLod the length ~s pre~y coJ~[0~ ~ th.;'~ha~ was or'g nally permi~ed, which gives you g't~:~ f good ~vater dopLh. They originally wanted to cut ~L b~:~ '~ 'Jng it more ~nshore because what you demonstrated pro~;~g~ ~U wa~er;depLh ~n the area. I would rather see ~t cuL b~o ev~ 10,.[eeL. I would suggest, Ken, you're the m~[~.~i ~ilJ~r ~i~h .this. cu[ back in length 10 feet, they co~l~g~ ~ t~o pl~[[0rm on the end because it's historic and just ~ ~-'i[ ~ [obr'f~ot w de ca[walk. That would reduce the s~ ~f L~,structure subsJant a y and st g ve the ap~;l~J~:] '~. yo~ .kbO~,~.. ~ '~L shows hetween 6' and 6'3" of water. I'~U~¢ ~ PQL~ODA: Working in the area and being familiar wi~ ~tock I~t~n, is I. hero an~hing in the permit re~.~J~g tho pil:in~s, offshore pilings? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There isn't. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: That's another issue. MR. HERMANN: The mooring pilings are actually not on the plan because they didn't appear in the survey. I don't know Why. I know in your new code you allow for tie off poles for one vessel. I thinkthat, [ mean, t don't think it's too much to ask, I hope I don't misspeak for Dr. Licalzi, to reduce the width of the catwalk to four feet. I mean, that is a fa~idycertain par[ of the odginal approval, and it's pl'oba ~xid~ cQ~ a~ec chan y a~equate. But otherwise, I mean, I think it's ~ar {hst we're ~alki~g about~ a structure that has rn;.o?e Oi-..l;es~ i~ that ~hape, location and ra~on f0? d~e~,oO:stral~ly three decades and based ~!!Y for';ai~,osj?~ix ~des. We're not proposing to · '~i~thlng rb{he~ tl~ar~ ~he heigh{ of the dock. So there would not be anything new planned or [ that woel~l'interrSro with the. baymen o~ or with s.~¢vimming or an~/thing else [hat[" I for longer'than some of{h~ baymen have ~lJYe. So we're really.just aski9g: Lo; rhainLair~ 3nably ) in terms of by red, uci~ng its widt:h ~o'four'l'ooL else, Going back to the pilings, the pilings to db ~ ypu r MR. I Opposite the side of the "L"? Right. That's the side where most baymen on the east wind we're drifting into e banging into the pilings constantly. That's where they dock their boats. I mean, the pilings for the safety of the vessel. float there. We keep the pilings If I don't have the boat. Why can't you dock to the south? sides of the dock. I think the Licalzis certainly -- My point is you monopolize quite a bit of the creek bed there with all the pilings. [t must be 40, 50 feet in width between pilings to the south, pilings to the north, that's quite a bit of bottom. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is the length because of the number of boats or because of the depth; what is the need for the _length? MR. HERMANN: It's the corn bination of both. DR. LICALZI: It's just that there's been a lot of erosion in thatarea because of the fact that there is the spit of Js Landing has been eroded over the There's a lot of wave action, a lot of boat and.there's a tremendous difference between tide, So there's a lot of the bay boEom I the time, and need the f ¢unction. luestion is if the boa'~ is being tied up to~ preventing baymen from being right in that area.. I don't know what kind of P~r~dgGt],'~ty y~o~!:e going right under where the boat is d6~1~75~ I~m~;a.~ih~] tHa:[~that.space is being taken u p by tho craJ!, whether there's pilings to tie UP to, or not and if thy:bo~'s not t.he[e, well.the~ it's open bay b~tom. TR:UST. EE POUIWODA: That creek' Isn't open unUI January 1st. There, is no vessel until that time. My point is the pilings aro ~.horo. IL's in a [ertile area and it's a Iotof probl~s when your boat drifts ~n there it's hard to make the t~trn',because there is a flat just ~ the north of those piling.~: E~/erybody's~ys what a~e the pilings doing there. MR. HERMANN: I'm not sure how you coul~l distinguish that site fr.o~' any.'.pla~e else in the town. Wherever there's dock sL'ruc.u~,~s, th'ore's going to be interference fbr baymen or for a~dy~'ody'~jlr~e. TRUS'~IEE POL ..WODA: I just think whether the pilings have a porrni[ e'r r,~ot, il;they don't have a permit maybe they shou,,~'rf't be there. MR. HE, RMANN,.' But the Board would be able to grant a permit for ,~o.m'e sort of tie-off poles. Again, this is not a new pr. opos'al. W. hatever the situation that exists nas existed What about reducing the size of the - the led for a 5 by 20 foot "L" on the end. is a 14 by 20, what about red acing the ~ to five feet but maybe eight rig. might be willing to consider that if the : remained at five feet, in other words, if you're doing a foot by 80, that's 80 square feet. If I took four feet offthe "L", and four times 20 is 80, so it's the same reduction in square footage off the bay bottom. MR. HERMANN: Are you talking about the length or width, Al? The length of it is 25 feet including the width of the catwalk, parallel to the shore, perpendicular to the shore it's 14 feet deep. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The additional 20 by-- TRUSTEE DICKERSON: The platform itself. TRUSTEE KRU]~SKh The platform itself, I'm not counting the 5 feet of~ ca,~.~ k. .M~ HiER~MANN: Its 2,0, by 14. TRUS~FEE KRMPSKh I m saying cut that down to say eight. MR. HE~RM~NN:'*' Eight by 147 Eight by 20. That would shorten the overall length six Bring it in six feet, and it would still platform at the end. It would be a in-- In area and length. -- in area and length, and yet it would .~same serviceability as what you have now, closer to match your existing permit. Rob, I need to make sure I'm understanding TRU: Okay. Four foot, now, this is 20 feet Fou"~'foot.. and instead of this 14, make it 8, just L8 ko s x [,~.oL oi Lbo ond and s x feet off here, and t ~,ould st~li .Se'tt~e same s~de th~s way. It would just be a Cm~ That way reduce the overall length and reduce JP~;KI: There's a considerable amount of bottom the same length. ~is length of catwalk, keep that at five feet? The DEC gave him five. All of ours are four. The problem is he went to your website and , said how the bay is six feet. : Now it's open bay. Take out one piling, the Right where your father's digging clams in took this picture last week, in February Actually that's me out there. You 20 DR. LICALZh Five feet and five feet. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But you have to show that on the plans. MR. JOHNSTON: And they stay at five feet, Ken? TRUSTEE POLIWODA: What's that?. MR. JOHNSTON: They stay at five feet? TRUSTEE POLIWODA: The catwalk would stay at five feet, that'S fine if he's cutting back on the platform. That's fine. MR. HERMANN: It would be aumform five as opposed to where it goes out a little bit. You would red,,u, ce that n excess -- ~US-F. EE KRU. PSKI: We assume its going to be a new ~t. ructure. MR. HERMANN: Yes. I~ JOHNSTQN: You're going to pull all these pilings out in, right? Some are going to be recycled. All the bottoms are being disturbed when out? Yeah. If there's no other comment, I'll make a ; hearing. Second. All in favor? ALL AYES. I'll make a motion to approve the that the catwalk be replaced al,, a live iooi w.~dLh., and it be a Iow profile catwalk with ne t-,~n~-~]ls; that the catwalk and platform be raised by 18 in.~t~ ~¢~h~;pla~orm at the end of the catwalk be 14' ~.?~"'~ "~''~ ~e¢,~n~,it 6' on the seaward end. ~.~,..~, ~..'.N~ ~1, would you read it again, please? T~$; ~PSKI: I'm sorry, all right, let me say that ag~it~. ~ .~*'~a, ik an.d platform be raised 18 inches with no ha~df~ ~e ~,a.'twalk w~dth wdl be 45 feet; the platform o bo 20' by' 8' a[.tt~e 'end of the catwalk, 20 feet not in~d'i~fl~e rl~ ~' ~'~alk width. TRf, JS~IJl4iN'G:' Overall, length of the "L" will be 25 feet. TRUSteE ,KRI:JPSKh Overall length of the "L" at the seaward side wili' be 25-feet, inward side of the %" will be 20 Overall length? Overall length of the catwalk will be -- 111. 111. As attached to the 8' deck on that cottage. Would you like to put the existing 21 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Two pilings will be included in the plan, one on the south side, one on the north side of the dock. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Should stipulate -- TRUSTEE KRUPSKh How high are the pilings? TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Two of them now. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No, on thedock, three feet? The pilings should be no more than three feet above the decking of the dock. MR. HERMANN: That's fine. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Preferably cut right off. M~R,~ JoH,,.N~ON: How much were you proposing the pilings? ,MR. HERMARN: 36 inches. , TRUSTEE:KRUPSKh Theresa motion. Is there a second? TRgSTEE ~OL]~WODA:;;" ,S, econd. ~'_R,~EE KF(U'PSKI: All. in favor? ALL AYES. i~R.'~T~EE'iKF~LI~SKI'. Ken, did you take the next one? 8. En Consu ~t.a~,~,~ on behalf of MADELINE AND RONALD RIBAUDO rec[uest a Wetia~nd Permit to construct a set of 4' by 90' timber stairs an~ p[afform~ down bluff to the beach. Located: 1.920 ~he Strand, East Marion. SCTM # 30-2-56. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: i~ there anyone who would like to comment on th MR, Hermann of En-Consultants on behalf of the the htforward application than for an access 3licant's upland to the TRL Anybody else like to comment on this the Board, I've looked at this, it's 't just make a walking path over to the stairs they created. It's not ~parerltly everyone wants their own set vegetated bluff as you've seen. MR. HERMAN N: He's helped keep it that way, yeah. T, RU!STEE POLIWODA: Looks very nice. I don't know how the Board ~eels, burl couldn't see a reason in denying this. APl~am.ntly we approve pretty much every set of stairs going doWn.t0 the So,Ind. Do any members of the Board have any othercomment? If not, I'll make a motion to close the pu btiq~ hearing. TRUSTEE DI,CKERSON: Second. T~S~EE POL~WODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE P~LIWODA: I11 make a motion to approve the Wetland Permit on behalf of Madeline and Ronald Ribaudo for the set of stairs going down to the Sound as depicted. TRUSTEE KING: Second. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES. MR. HERMANN: Kenny, you may remember -- although it might have been before you were on the Board - we had an application that was litigated for almost 10 years because tw(~ neighbors had once dec~ded to share a dock. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I know how that works. Just a shame the stairs are right there, goes down to the beach. 9. En Consultants on behalf of PATRICE AND JOHN KEITT reouests a Wetland Permit to construct a 24' X 26' wood trellis~ Located: 280 Basin Road Southold TRUSTEE KING: Anyone here that wishes to comment on this project? ~P~. H~RMANN: Ron Hermann of En Consultants on behalf of the Keitts, This looked at in the field actually with Jim, rd proposal for a wood trellis and a would be a good candidate for a new ~ds Permit,, but I don't know if Brownell yet, so we're here FUll! permit~ / other comments on this project? I'll ~ hearing. : Ali in faa/or?. ALL AYES. /lookedl-at this, I agree it will be a good I'll recommend approval. Second ALL AYES. Ned application John Betsch has been ~riL i'm going to call for a brief five (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 11 Harvey Arnoff on behalf of JEFFREY HALLOCK requests a Wetland Permit to cut into ground of right-of-way for installation of underground utilities, permission to cut base oJ: existing dirt roadway to upgrade with stone materials, and for the proposed driveway landward of the rig ht-0f-way. Located: Diachun Road in Laurel. TP. USTEE KRUPSKh Would anybody like to speak on behalf of applicant? MR. FIALLOCK: I'm Jeff Hallock. Harvey couldn't be here tonight, I'm representing myself. I wish I was Harvey, i'd be getting paid for my time, but unfortunately -- I think we've gone through everything we cou Id go through on this application. It's been about a year and a halfl and if you have any questions I'd be more than happy to answer them. TRUSTEEKRUPSIq: Thankyou. Would anybody else like to speak in favor of or against the application? MR. ATKINSON: My name's Matthew Atkinson, an attorney residing in Laurel, New York, and I'm representing members o~ t~he commu_,nity opposing this. 'On a po~rnt~the Board ~und that it would,like a long fo~m ~AF.fii~d_with ~t~ and that form hash t been cOr~p~ted yet~d ~'h,c~'Sa requirement under SEQRA. If you're 99 rig, tp go a~l a~nd al,chide you need additional inTorra~0TM On a pro~'ect ~ request a cng form,~ and unt I. ha['s submitted, part o[ Lhis.ap'plication -- the application is ncJt really complete. But if the Board wants to go Ior~vard and make a determination to den¥~hi;~ permit of cou~o, iL noecJ"got hav. e t~a110rig lorm ~F. ~we~er, if you iell me. whm you do. I'll reset:ye rny ottier comments. If you r,e go ~t.] Lo r~c, qu re the cng. form EAF to be comp eted, 'd lille a.~ qppor~,uriity to review it and comment on it. 'FRL~-[EE';KI3EI!IS',S'K BxP,,LJse me n whatway, leit not comp ete? MR..ATIgI~.~N~: Wha,t was submitted was Part, I of th~s long ferm. 'i:~.~'i~ .0. n[ir.~. Paf;t. II .wbi'ch s project impabts a~d !.hei[' ma~'ditude. 'which is ~'~ba.t you need Ln,~rdcr to assess Lhe [i:~pa].~,~ of,,tl~e, prt~j,ect~.,~s,blank; and tbe,;de~mit~ation of the ev~'luaffb~i;i ~t~.',flis,i~act, Part III ~s ~l~n~. Tho;e's"'~u vis. u~'i i~F aa ~.~qdurn wh ch ~¢uLd be typically no [:,?sis~re;.,,.t.'~ ~ ¢~,e a d~ermination of sign~ficance. TRU'STE?E: I~R~.,I~: ',~'.): 'EIt~k yeu. Any ot~et ~omment? We did get .-- I'n!..,sorr,v. I'.¢ .~i'!. s~..e,; ~'ou standingup. MR. HO~'S~Ri ,lit~.IHous~r. live on Nc~h Oakwood Road in LaurelL JU,< but ri§h from.' ., v.., me i~ll .h , .' north ferR,'~or 3~ ~ye~rs~ e~ since I don't want to repeat that, cut into the ground of the the ground of the is rght a cng that strip of area. Cutting into the J entail significant root bushes that send their roots in · another thought that occurred to .... ,...'." · ' ,..~ I've been driving around the had a license, and I 24 can't recall any of the wetlands that have a road that run right along the edge of it, so this seems to be somewhat of an unprecedented situation for a road. Also I know that 'there's a fellow up at the way at the far ends of that road, although the road might not be proposed to go through there, rWhO has, I believe is trying to get a permit for a bed and breakfast. This fellow's already been able to put a bridge overthe head of the creek. I rememberwhen I heard he was thinking el doing that, I didn't believe he _w._o,,uld get the permission to do that, but he did, and I der~t know for the sai~ who knows. ~ t~'tp punch · access ~ into his That'S interesting but I hadn't heard tha[ ME, HOUSER: Heard what? T~.~,STEE KRUPSKI: That this was in any way related to the bed; and ,breakffast. i~iiHO~SERi I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying know th~hi~ fellow~vas trying to get a bed and breakfast, that~ what heard, and the road eads directly up to his house because his house is the old Diachun house, so it wdui'd seem tb be in his interest. I mean, if I was him I wO~J]~d ce,~aip[y ~ant some way to punch a hole through that ro~ which wasi~ne of the reasons why the guy put the bridge o~er th,e c~eek in the first place was so that he c~l~l get acceSs!to h s house through Laurel Wood Estates. So ~t~.~e~e~e~.to benefit him, and I'm sure he would try to sta~"mal~ig~rriov~es about do ng that, which you iust ~ncreased ith'~e~traffic ~re just my two comments, the possibility of this and the fact that l don't know of any the wetlands here on the north : this cutting in for utilities, which is of course, kills all the vegetatio~ alon and since this is a protected area, I think that nificant interest. Thank you. Actually, there's a lot of through the wetlands, town roads. MR. ' cut through. They cut right through it. Wetlands were filled, and the r~oads go right through it in a iot of 25 places. For the record, this has nothing to do with the bed and breakfast at all. MR. HOUSER: I didn't say it did, I'm just looking down the future. MR. JOHNSTON: Can I ask Matthew whether he thinks it's unlisted or whatever? Matthew, can I ask a question rela(ing to yourMarch 24th letter?. Am I understanding it dghtthat you feel there should be a SEQRA review, and in part ,that it's because it is your position that this is not a Type 2. SEQRA situation? ,ATKIf~ISON: 'Fhat s correct. · M!R;.~JQHi~'~$TQN;"' And that it w,o, uld be either a Type ! then or ah Uh[isted~. a~d can I assurne it s your position tl~at it s an Unlisted~ That's correct. Thank you. I wanted to make sure I I just wanted to note that this EAF, the is riddled with errors, and I completed EAF to make comments on it, but application tonight on the s been submitted, I would like to point out s EAF that you do have. Before you start into that, we have a g, we sent the EAF who is the Senior for the Town for his rewew and his / we received comments from him. I suppose I'1[ Ifs in the record. "Applicant needs to 1 and spec fica y state improvements. m.%rences the ZBA decision. It is my ..... : '~ ........ .;: .... action is not consistent with that .' .......... i d Feb uary 20 ¢ .', : ~" :. J ,,.~ h, "., application must match the survey ,..., ..... =, "~onth. "1 recommend no action be taken ........ abort ~s amended or conditions are rrp~:e~;~q the record, Improvements indicated on the long ..... · m ,,,~,-~ .,. ,,..=,. ~ ,,I, , rm and the survey need to be ..... ,, .... ;= b~lend road cross-section is ...... ,,~tion with eight foot wide · .... ]¥' .".! ..... .,....,r .,, .Jestactual proposed improvements ..... ' .... ~ ' cleared, et cetera cannot proposed action is consistent with the survey." Now, i~ order to have him review this, he's got to have the survey match the application. So you're going to have to get those exactly in line, including and one of the major inconsistencies is it shows as discussed in the field shows the eight foot wide - and I'm referring to the survey of February 20~ 2004 -- it shows the eight foot wide currenl roadway with the two areas that were approved, proposed to be improved, in otbe~words, moved away from.the wetlands, , on the drainage shows a 16 have to be Mil and he can issue a on. is that clear?. SO, regard to the ZBA letter, this Board issue a decision irregardless ,agency or any state agency issues a :Is, if the ZBA has on record that the roadway should bo 16 feet wide for whatever reason, for,whatever legal reason, [his Board is not bound by their deci§ion. This'Board (;an issue a permit based on our decision and opr determination based on what we find on our code. So we're not bound by Lhe Z. BA code. We're certainly not bound b~ [l~e DEC. Thoy have to issue a permit, but if they.did wo,wc[uldn't be bound by that either. Just want to make tha!. cJear. f Other comment? MR. Well, I've submitted written comments since, I wo~ re'summarize since you have them. I'd just tike t ~ver a quarter mile long, it's now 22 feet g, regrading 16 feet, which is t the ZBA even asked for. Then the three either side to re-do the slope, and it's beir I, mean, typically roads have a This is designed to drain in, and it's cou pie of catch basins. Th~ ons on this. You ~,now, what kind of · g ,down the slopes, the existing slo oped properties and onto the road itsel'. This~.is like no[ engineered at all and the im pacts or it a. re not boi0g looked at. TRUSTEE KRU'PSKI: Actually we are looking at it. That's why we're st~l here. 2? MR. ATKINSON: Well, you know, they're not being quantified, the alteration of the storm water runoff. There's been no inventory of any plant or animal species here. This is a good example of a project right up against a critical environmental area which we see has heightened scrutiny under the new wetlands law. Th~s isn't like a 15 foot encroachment on that. This isa quarter mile encroachment on a wetland buffer right up against the wet[ands in certain spots. This is a classic case of where t want to have an expert, and I"d make an offer , not to have Jeff pay for get an irnPaJ'tial property. ded licensed for thal purpose. permission My attorney g I would like to do. passing on my property and the Dia~!dn property since this meeting star[ed. They say thing~:..th.e.y k'now,Lhings about the property. They've been on th.'~ pr.O'c, erty ~,~/i:thout permission They've. trespassed, they've ~io!.'-¢!.'edlthe law. We all know that for a fact you havb'b~0n th6r. e. You know. that that road is existing, that notl~ifi~'~.F~ ~g"to'do is going to encroach or damage the en(4f'odm."or]t ~)r:be any more detdmerrtal than the way it is and:~Ci&'s b;~,erf ~or the last hundred years We all have been !.her~¢,n~l;~'~'~l~,~¢ tile road and agreed t~ that. I'm not doing anytlt,i~g. '1 wo.~ld 5e happy to leave the road exact y the wayli~: ~s.an¢-d:~ noj~hing. What's going to change whether I buil~'.~i~o~?,~r' h(~t that load is'{ke~ and has been there for ~'l,ha'r~di~.d~ars.' I'm not asking to do anything. I'm har¢~ ,ti:J~go,up;'and. down a dirt r0~d. I'm no{ looking to build a..Cig.~va'y. T~.r~fcj-.e;n.c,(;s to the bed and breakfast are totally irrelo,za'dt Se. cause I looked into that when these hearings first s~!r~dt~13U~the properties aren't even adjacent. They already.~h~ve,access '[rom Route 25 tr ed to ga n access, I Ioo~l,l~.o4:~i.aL,to see ~t I cou d ga n access from Route 25 s,o.lCt, o~J, I,d.~i~'be hero. This is my only alternative. I'm an ~r,!'c~n. I.'..m a property owner. It's my dream, and I think 'il'~ ir~.,)r~fnt that you guys look into dreams a little more ~ri~] ~t~L s;o much into the aw Thank you. T'RL,~'F,E'E~RUPSKI: Thank you. MR. ',ATF,,I~t3N. I m Going to make no comment about the 28 personal attack on my clients. I would like to say that nothing prevents Mr. - MR. HALLOCK: They have trespassed. MR. ATKINSON: Whatever. That Mr. Hallock is entitled to go upand down this dirt road all he wants. That's not why he's before you. He's before you to get you to ratify the ZBA application and that's what his application states and requests. Thank you. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Again, in reference to the ZBA, the ZBA dec]sion does not have any bearing on our decision. MR. ke a completely ['h~'saying the application before Ired asks you to ratify the ZBA appJica~ion; that's how it's I'm not ~lication a ny regard h~s asked for. TRU'STEE:I~RUPSKI: T~a0k yea, Anyo~tb~er comment? Do you undorstand what M~rk Ter~ requested, that you make it consistent with th~ survoy? M~i ~/~: ~n we ask that your counse make a comment on ~'ztl~lt~:e "S~RA situation this is without going into all the legal mumbo~:-~mbo without him. I'm sure he wants to rcs pond to.what M~: AI. kinson said, so. M.R. Ceuld rcquest a copy of these minutes sent t(~J ;what went on since he couldn't be · JOHNSTON: He can feel free to call me if he wants to. are available, we would make all minutes wOuld :just like to reiterate that I am in no 'ss]on to trespass on my property, Thank you. I'll make a motion to table the hearing. in favor?. ALL AYES. 12. Ik Environmental Consulting on behalf of JOHN DON ESTATE PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION nd'Permit to replace in-kind/in-place appro~mat~ly 1,1 54 linear feet of existing timber bUlkhe~ad!n~ and 775 linear feet of proposed fiberglass balkheadin~jnstalled in-kind/in-place the existing b~l~h~adin~; lOcated a cng the propert es both nOrth and south sides of Petty's Pond. Located: Arshamomague Avenue and Perry's Pond, Southold. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anybody who would like to speak in favor of the application? MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson of Suffolk Environmental Consulting for the applicant. i'm going to hand up a copy of a short letter that I've written concerning this application for your info¢Cnation (handing). TRU, STEE KRUPSKI: Bruce before you even start what you've submitted' here, is that consistent w~th the ong!nal ~qu,est'? RyANDERSQN, Yes. What I seek to do today, I want ,. ,._~ne c e~ on the aspects of this project that are ~i~p~e6 by n~ighbors who live in th~s area. I think that's given we've given a pretty good history the inlet, et cetera, that's al I want to keep you on focus as to what this application, and the first ) be contested is the eastern ,t realize this is a box jetty type. The f that box jetty measures 308 feet, and that le mouth of the inlet out to its southern te jetty, which, is shown here, it's imkind/in-place. I'.m sorry, n vinyl, right? It's going to be in fiberglass the and The~ KRUF'SKI: Not in-kind. The eastern face of the eastern jetty, if you that is going to be removed as ~g portion of the box jetty. ~re going to he removed ~ we're talking about a single jetty replacing the western wall of the -place. ~ing that we need to understand is that the eastern jetty is functional, look at the surveys and the ;that we have provided with you, you will are to the east of the gnificantly shallower than within the which is that area between the eastern nd those depths are deeper there. ~e~ you:. go to the west of the western jetty, 30 particularly near shore, you will find that those water depths are again shallower. That means that this jetty does indeed function because it traps sand and because it does maintain a navigable channel. That leaves us with a functional jetty. Now, there has been some discussion as to the terminus of this eastern jetty. We have provided you with a photograph a panoramic photograph that shows you the full breadth of that eastern jetty. And it's important to ,note that even at its end, where there are holes Jn the sheathing, and the photos show that, that the jeU~y do~ function becaus~ again, the water depths inside th'e je~ are greater.than the water-depths that are outside the jetty. When we measure the section of timber bulkhead that ~o~nst. it{uting the western face of the eastern jetty, we've btCr~ihed that 238.'feet of that section s fu y ntact and tM pbotb that I'ye handed up demonstrates that The 70.feet, whil'e still serving tO trap sand, con holes in the sheathing~ What that means is more is completely intact and :he previous code and the cun )roVide the replacements of that jetty 'igbt. ~ note that the southern section of the, no plans to replace that, thal I think when the day ,pdately that the a ht to do what they're doing. thfs application to you, we have law and the new law, and what we find is we comply r position that the 31ied for. Thank you MR the applicant's here, the at~I ere, We're all here willing to MR. I think we're going to reserve from the Board until we hear, see if comments. kyou, Any other comments in favor of the : Chairman Krupski, Members of the Board our Town ' name is Chds Baize. My wife and reside in 3t the east end of Southold, 59600 Main Road, and we are the adjacent property owners to the east of the Beixeden property. And at this time, we have no objection to the applicant's request. In fact, we think it is a useful and functiona[aspect to be considered. My great grandmother ficst purchased her parcel of land there to the east of the property under consideration back atthe end of Wodd War I; shortly thereafter, her son, my grandfather chose to help control some of the landward erosion t and he installed a Iow r waterfront At the time that that curved round: bock lining it was was approximately 200' the mid 1860s. And at the )fthe ~bly Sp, a tremendous amount virtually all out in front ~t are Offshore there. It's not to th6 ~¢us. It's all out ~ce has been that the in the wintertime with ,~nt; and certainly over the ~finterand last:winter, we have, levels of nor wh~ch just wreak havoc on that shol buifJ:lin~ events are bas cai y hut: of the hurricane which is to that whole sh( I've ever see~ northeast quadrant of a ilow.,ing directly on build!rig when that hadl a le of that ford~)r wa.s 19 year;s age in September of ~/ith Hurri'.c;eno GIo:ria. So we have had very limited oppott?~"?.' f~ .¢~'~'F~n ,'¥~* h"'d~n,~ T" ,,:.,';,,- d; :;',' I .'.,-.J,: ',;,,.'"::ent on iS that Iow pressu~.,, .~, .,,,, . ~,. n =, , .. .... . , ,s create wind. they create waves: '; '" .:'...,'.,, · ':: ,.:'; ..' ,,rgy from the wind. and when fi; . ',,",:"i;? "i.t= ,, ..- :'.; !"'.,'.~.,;line, that energy has to 32 be dissipated, and typically unfettered shores that have a long running beach are that energy dissipating curve. That whole cross-section profile of the slope of the beach is what dissipates the energy, and when you interrupt that curve with obstructions or vertical walls, you in effect block the ability or reduce the ability of that shoreline curve to dissi pate the energy. You have much higher velocity' of water hitting the obstructiQn, which then Carries the finer particle material away leavin~ stonier, :of it. issue of understanding the "and~how you do it or do you ) front all the way to the he chose to do a and POnd have. never ection to the request of the want to do. I think it's a good ~ a consideration should be Those waters are so the summertime coming in 30 of ir~ches of water, and a neck someday when they fall off [water that's out there. We is shoreline that really noo:Js LO have attention, paid to it. You can wall~.ou~400 fool. aL Iow tide and yo~!~;e no~ still not up to your waist in water· It's been that ~vay I'0rever. Thanks. TRUSTEE KR~JPS~I: Mt. Baize? MR. BAIZE: Yes? 'I.~USTi:E KR~PSKh In what way are you qualified to speak a~o~[ coastal erosio~ pr~ocesses? M'R. BAiZe: Well. I studied as a geology major at Columbia .... · .: ,.......,.., ,, ~'", ·., r · .:::: anography. I also taught a ~.,,,'r'n"., :h :': ' ~ ':::';...~. I ,.':..::morphology, to put it another .-. '.'...:',,'.~, ': ~,':::,. ,,:. ,":! L.. ~ically that plus my engineering :':;.;,..;':;,~.~:::. :"i' ',':.~.: . "t .... g engineer and one of the great :",...: ..;: ;..", '~ ~ :~',' ,',,;',.' .,.'. ? is howdoyou separate · '~'.'.~:; . .;~z::. i:..,~h,': . ~ .... water and using water as ::'., ":',.. ,,.:;...::x~. '.' .: .'.:, .mow that the more rapidthe .'.;:,.:~ .;.l::':i... ": :. c.'~r '. ':'7 fine particles can be transported away from a source, i.e. beach sand, and leave behind gravel. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh In your opinion -- could I ask you? MR. BAIZE: Sure. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you consider this jetty to be functional? MR. BAIZE: Yes, it is. And it still is even though it's been badly damaged this winter from the ice flows. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Would anybody else like to spe. ak on behalf of th.e application? MR. CIQHANOWlCZ. Dave Cichanowicz, Southold. Just to add ~n,y.own input tha!~as far as the jetty, which seems to be of on.~rn taking the jetty away I do not be eve s go ng to ~t that has eroded. It's e years when there ; di"edging from here ncrvv; ,whi¢ti [he,p.eople who live on 'the canal have been doir)~l over the yea'rs and happdy putb[~g [he spods there and.~m~ng thefS~aC~' '~is~s td~,~ Thank you. TRUSTEE K~UPSKI: Th~kyeu. MR;. JO'~NS~ON: Dave. coul~¢you spell your last name and give rlCZ: C-I-C-H-A-N-O-W-I-C-Z, 1425 Arshamomague that TRU, appli( Thank you, Dave. Anyone else in favor of the application? name's Rich Rizzi. I live at 1805 I submitted a letter to you which I'm I read. I just want to go on record I am and my is in favor of this proposal. I have lived and what we have noticed is when the was there, the beach was there. As the'bbach has disappeared I'm not a like that, but walking a dog on you start to see what happens. When the that's when the beach disappeared. ~go on record to be in favor of the work Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else in favor of the A~yone else like to comment on the 34 application? MR. BRESSLER: Members of the Board, you're back for our third iteration. It seems to me that where we are now can be simply summarized The applicant has come before you asking for what generously can be categorized as the largest and most intrusive jetty system in our portion of the bay with virtually no science behind them. That is where you are with the applicant. The Board inquired last time would the applicant be wilB thin k the Board is now [be done. Under the new president announced · to do now. As 1~ ~:and a~d but the /lembers of )ur Are them up or are they based u~dn sc ence? Now you ha~t~ the opportumty,.,to answer that,quest on. Arid the mw ~ode proper.y g'~es., the. Bbard. ~.tae author'ty. ~"..'ir"eaoli"°ut: · land to. employ, at' app. hda, n[~,.expense, those expei~s who can g~ve the Bb~rd. ai:Jv'i~e and. gui'~l~nc~. With all dt~. ros. pect.,.tp the knowledge and exper ence o~ the bi;embers.et tl~.~.Bo~lrd, those Lypes of expert opinions and. ,&.t.te.~i~,~aro ~ec, .~sar? '[or the Board to render an ~n~ellJ~l~nt, doc,m~Jn a~,to the sc~entmc ~ssues. As I sa~d beforbi an'[~'rL'uh~e ~ 'the &,pp bant hasg yen you noth ng ~n tha'b,rega,~d aiM. b, .~ r~lpsod the inv ~at on Whether the Boar.~t.cl~e~J:ses..t',~ m, ~,e, tSat n~/tat on somewhat more forma and u~ st~hlL' un6~,r tl,, . , , .. ~ Cd~lo. s. up tothe. Board. We' see al. Lhe'$~d',~ th'e. Levc( ting wl~ether Lhat's so or not I .~hlnk .th>3t iL s al ,so worth rieL ng that after the lasL roeeting dcl, Lh,e B~'ard~',.t~e objocLants were so concerned by the .dearth o['s6~oltl b~flc,.e~denco !.hat they went out and Lhoy hJ'r~d cbasta: e~] n.e~ers and we have ton ght those coastaJ, e, ~lg]nee¢~, .. . ho~z.~... T'hev've_ ~}ro'~ared~ a report Ocean and Cea's!¢t Corasulta'nts.. IBc. and we have Brian Jones, Eng:r eer and P[eJe6~, an'agor here to ~peak to that ssue, and h~lia;s a sulSm~on thaL h s going.to hand up. They went o~.[ in, tho s.bort ~ime. ~Sel. w¢,cn the ~s~ two meet ngs, they w~t;out, they s,urve~,,¢d the in[orma~on, tljey did some field S~di'.e~. and.the~,'ve ar. rived at some intermediate -- not final -- comclusioms and you'll hoar ~vhat they are. Not 35 meaning to steal his thunder. The answer to the question is a study needs to be done. As the President correctly pointed out last time we were here, these complex issues. And every area of the coastline is somewhat different, and the Board has not been blessed with any coastal engineering studies based on any evidence whatsoever or any field studies as to what actually is going on out there, or how thisthing oughtto be properly engineered. Now, whose nickel it is a questiOn for the Board to decide, butthe engineers are h~r,e, and they have done their preliminary work, and they r~ p~'ePa~bd tO Speak to that. I thirfk n~w ] ;havb to disabuse the Board .~ I hpp,.~ ~jsn't nece~a~y, ~)ut l will do it anyway - or, the n¢o:8'~tthere is SQ~ehDw a right on the part of ti'ih appli,~a'nt :;~o What theyYO re;q~esting. There is no righ': on the part of the. applicant, e~theF under the old There are or what ~s being propdsed h'ero. They're Here asking for a permit bec~'Jso Lhey need one.. If th~ trust me, thoy. wouldn't be here. Thoy not exem pt and they have to.sl~o,~v you justification for tl~is St'ructure ' do. I would there is a is not the 12th hour. wo'd like an'oppor~uniLy )n it. And also. I wou!d like, to say last ti~3o I was here the~ Board made the remark the[. wol ybu, d'dnt.~oL a copy ofthe otter the files are op, en Lo yc~u-comp, on down arid '~ok any time. I take ii Lhat!t~at invitation is now qualified by the rule thaJ. you car~'t come do,wn and look on th~day of a hearing, ;]ec<"-4. Jse [h~:~['s iNh'at ha.,ppened !.o us t,oday. Out of an abundance.of c~u.tion. ~'~e went down tind'~aid we want to ook and ~'~al~e~'~arb~ fh~[~rte~~ hbthing el~e ~a~2s come in that wo should! address~,tonight and the answer was yqu can't do t~ Sc~.~h~: ~t ~,~n~'p ' ~rnot, don~t know, but!ybU, ri~ll,~-t~noW,,th~'~hat'~ what happened, and if that-'~ tho da~e, then wo'll be guided accordingly Whether anything.else came in thai we're not aware of, I don't' kno~= UuL ~,zo ~1.o know thai. a.'!. lea:st this letter has come in. and we'd liko a~o~por~unity Lo comment on it whatever -r~R~T~iKRUPSKI: Are you commenting on the letter that E~ruo~ An~so[t de!i~vered t~ us this evening? MR. BP.E~,$1LER~ i Uen't know that we've ever been made privy 36 to it. I presume this is a new submission. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We've just received it this evemng. MR, BRESSLER: That's right. I'd certainly like a opportun ity to comment on that. But what I'm saying -- TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Actually for the record, his presentation this evening was I think word for word -- virtually word for word from the letter that he's submitted. So, you can comment on his submission, verbal subm ssion this even ng. MR. BRESSLER: The reason for my comment s we went down ng ese n the,fi e, we don't has a and JPSI~I: Ybu came in today to look al. !.he rile? ~/i~at time did'you come in. ~r? ~UD. ENCE. . MEMBER', .. . . ApRox~' mately. 1'3'0;. 2'00. . HR. J,OH~STON: Eric. in tl~ n. eWspaper, to the best my knowlj~dg~, it says an opportunity to be heard may be reviewdd, comments_submitted ~n writing up to 24 hours pnor Lo Lhe'h~adng. That's publishod in the newspaper every ofv fil~, However, when somebody comes in and asks if in the file, I don't want to be put in ~ ~o come to you and say, look, we to have to take a look ~pportL~nity to be aware ~ubmitted. On the other hand, if you came in this wanted to submit something to the Id be denied. And that wouldn't review it today. That's why we try to limit it to 24 hours be'l'er~ ttho da~e Df the hearing, then at least that gives pooplo, l.ime te review il.. k.lR: ~ .R'E~S!2E~: All I'm suggesting is we don't know. So if the Bpa'rd:is i~clined to close the hearing, which I think they ,;?ill nol..l:~e,,'.'[hat's my request. That having been said, I'd lik~!to tar, n~i! ,.over to our coastal engineer. 'I'RU~TE, E;P©LI,WODA: Eric. I got this at 7:00 tonight. MR'. ~RE~-_-_-_o~: I'm not objecting to that because I know you guys.,.g0t:.th, al.ja~l, now. I'm saying if there's anything else n Lhc. ro. I'rn g.oir~g to have to find out because I tried in 3? good faith to address everything I thought might be in there. MR. JOHNSTON: It's not a new procedure, Al. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh You want to outline that for the record? MR. JOHNSTON: Eric, for the record it's not a new .procedure. Thefiles are packed up in Lauren's car to bring ever here. They're closed for everybody. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's a mechanical procedure. MR. JOHNSTON: They're in her car to bring over here. My comment was, I was not made privy to a ~ment to mewas~ are ourfiles are open, :~in.vitat~[dr~, what it is. That's al .. J in t, he newspaper. We want that thatlimitation is That's okay. It's also a requirement that you FOIA it too, Look, all I'm telling you is based upon what , I had an II went down attempting to avoid that which so I wouldn't be put in that situation, G(~od evening. My name is Brian Jones I am a profes~sional engineer, State of New York, and a I have a Master's degree in coastal Dominion University in Norfolk, Consultants tonight and ur ¢ient, Mr. Tom Ball, who has previously do a review of the proposed last cou pie weeks we did that review. With I reviewed some aerial a limited site survey to get g proposed, and what the likely stress this is a qualitative assessment not quantitative. I'd like to bring light. We do have a written report Thank you. ize that wasn't made 24 hours in we want to make is, what it boils the proper engineering studies, the been done for this project. We a very serious impact, in fact, the over the last several decades has had a very senous impact on the down drift beaches. We are arguing that this is not going to constitute an ordinary maintenance and repair project, and it's arguable that it's 75 percent intact as originally intended. We believe that the limited amount of information that we collected supports that. This is basically going to constitute a major rehabilitation effort. And we'd like to pre~ent a few things to Show that. First off, we.took a.lo,?k at several aerial photographs, just to demonstrate ~he d:e~rease~ i~ tb,~ beach width down drift From ~ e~'[ph°tegmphA, you, c~n see trdat on the eastern end of th~. jet~ the beaoh ~ p,,ears to be ve stable of at east mu?b,~m~ ~ ~abl[i~ ~eS~:phot~graphs were ~ken, th~s s Apr].]=~00~] ,A@ri! ~9~4:, 11978' These ha~ve all beS~':[~-' ~:'~r~r~c;¢d. a'~' c~-'a~i '-.' at'the same sce,~e~ .... ~ . ~ . a] . So erse~ll~ '~d'¢nt~cal co~gufa~bn there. We want~ to demonstrate tha[= 1976 you can see the beach eid~ here on [he wosLern side or'the je(ty, it's just sho~vinga progressive thin~ing of t~e. beach, constituting a long term erosidn~r~'[o d~wn,driE ef the je~y. Updi'ift;of ~e j:e~ you ca~ see ~.e be.~ch wMtb, appears Lo be re atively stable. So we'(¢,bri~i6g that ~t"t~, b.a~ically say o~r Conclusion from this is t~&[ th~r~ is som~ .~ei¢iment to tha~.j~ty being there on ~e~wn d¢i[[,:~.6~ches, it's:~usmg erosion asit i~. :' 'ethinkE~r uabe~he75 ercent ntact We wou[~:~ai~fy.¢qn~est'~bat. J.ust Iook~g at the pictures orthO,rte s~¢~ ~ e~s are gene, they're ~ssing. The apfil~¢~ ,S t~,~g~ c~V~n~ yea that 100 ~me, t of the struc:ure weald, be justdown to the 300 ~oot range. There s an 8d~'i[ional. 100.160 foot bunch of rem:nants out there; that's pa~ of th~ drig~ hal struc~e. So you ~ally got to look a~ the whole s[ructure as ~,~hole, ~ believe if you r6 ¢o~ng,~,~la~m 75 percen~ ~taot: Fu~herm~e. [he original stmctu, re was filled with sed~u'~¢~p ~,We" der~and it thatis notthe case ah (ogr~s'show this. The original design of the s .[ac~ure,W~;s t~ p~o~ido.a boa~ basin, an anchorage, that isl clearly no 19nger,the case. Irs now being used as a je~ W~r~ ¢~iBg to say is there needs to be engin, ~i~g ~lrs done. Why does the jeEy need to be 300 feet q ~ rr~hb st,di~ we're showing on the su~ey that we aliiWe ~fin ely say we are not able to quantify it at thi~ei.n~, bS~e,can. Uefinitely say given the contours -we can bring it up a little closer--the contours are showing the existing structure is definitely porous, it's permeable, sand is diffusing through the structure as it is. If the applicant is allowed to restore that structure, rebuild it, then that's going to block off, we estimate, another 3,000 cubic yards of sand above this jetty here on the eastern side; that's going to interrupt the littoral drift, the sediment transport to the south, which is ge~ng to increase the erosion along the down drift side. We would maintain that this jetty is a porous structure.. If they lit, it, s And which co~ to. th e the to go here, a'n~J maybe ewe~ I.oe~ng ; bulkhead ther.~, mak.~og~L,par~ll~.l, you can ac y ~mprove th e situation, red.,.~, i',~g, the a'mounL oF dredg'ing that's required on tl~e basi~ I;l$c,,~e. A.re, there, a:.n y. questions? TRUS.:r'EE'KI~.JJ.,'PSKh How long will it take? MR. JON~S: 'FO do the study? It will take maybe a few weeks to do 'Lhb s~udi;es.,. Really what we're talking about, the kinds of s'tNcli~s~al need to happen out here, the sediment budgo[ nebbts-tU 'i~e developed, a wave study to determine how rnu~,t= sand, ar~djw;e, believe I'rom looking at the aerial pho~.~§r~iph.s, fi;~lookin§ at the survey data that we have hero:.Lh~Jt-tb'e r~t.s~dimon[ transport is heading down this way. Tho. sand is b'.eiog Irapped in the jetty here. That's why the boache~ on the oaslern side are stable and the sand is n~t'~lON,;~Od~,ti~'~rne db~vn here. As thi.s transport conti.nues to mo~m ~own this way, these beaches are b3'ng:,~Lar~ed. MR..BRES~BLE,F~. To Lhe west? MR J.C~NE~ --.Lo L~m west These beaches are being starved o~ th~, ~o~.men[. So we need to develop a sediment transport budge~to.:I'igure hov~ much sand is coming, to determine what the ~hoa!'in~, rates are going to be within the inlet, and really optimize N~haL~s t~e trade off between a suitable jeLLy iemg~h~:!.o miriim~Te the dredging requirements, and 4O still allow as much sand as possible to get drown drift on these beaches and feed these beaches. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I have a question. If you're saying that looking back to the past, the earliest one I have up ,here is 1966, 1976, so years ago when the jetty was functionigg there was more beach, and as it became nonfunctioning it's eroded away? MR. JONES: No. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's what he said. MR. JOHNSTON: I thought that's what he said. me explain. You're saying it's nonfunctioning now. functionality. There is ~ jetty because there are they are still holding sand. You're debating saying it's arguable My confusion s the beach has oeen of that jetty not MR. This is a study in time. This offset between and'down ddft, this is a classic offset beach .erosion in the face of a jetty ~ happening is the net sediment transport if the year or years is heading down this sand is building up here (indicating). The b)ecause some of the sand is i this point. So some is , stable because the net What's happening is the this jetty, you~ see it is what the jetty's -- so in that 'n the sense that it's deeper can see the sand, is permeable ~ going through th,er, e, and the ;I the erosion here. Bu;~ this is a 1 here. To say 5 the pictures lot' of'beach here that no erosion is occurn.ng is false. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'm not saying none, 'm saying there was more beach. MR. JONES: There was more beach when the jetty was young beca~se thi~ is a long term phenomenon. TRUCE' I~RUPSK[: Could you hold up the previous picture 41 with the three pictures on it, three areas on it? MR. JONES: Yes. 'Cause, in fact, the picture from the 1960s shows the beach all the way out here to the end of that dog leg structure. So, we're maintaining that over time, the system response has been that this beach is continuously eroding. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What date, could you go over the date again? We can't read the dates from here. MR. JONES: This is 1'976, 1994, and 2001. TRUSTEE From here, now we reviewed a number of this question Peggy raised is that built 'his was~ built in the '20s. So this is 40 years in existence. Excuse me, Eric, I've got a question for that we had is that what we Ob~. 3hs, over the '60s, to the '70s."to tt~e"§0s, most current that We h~i ~J~en the structure was functioning 100 per~-~n~:'' ~':b~t'ch Was protected. MR. 8R.E:.SS.L_ER: Which beach? 'FFTUST. EE K'RU;F'SKI: Tho beach to the west, thank you. And thai.it. W~S. main!.ainod. MR. JQN[~;: '~ha'!: is incorrect. There was a beach there, but over.' time ~Ll~e,ne..[..transporz, which is being blocked by the jolty,..sta~v)0g:,tl~.beach down drift, and this is what the st~ot, eli:r~"~.iJ~ (J~i'n,'.g, It's been retreating for decades. And we re',~p~a~.n~g ~t s been retreating for decades as a result,~.f..th~s ,s[~m.~Luro. which ~s ~mpound~ng the sand. Tho.e¢ig nal~,s!.ructure w~s but to the erg na d~meqsk,e.ns 7~0~...~00 feet out because there was a mooring a n ch;,Lr.a'g¢ ~(~r~. TRU,~'~E ~E~.'PSKI: Correct. MR J .~..I~'E~': -i'h.ese s!.ructures are st v s b e, remnants of TRUS.-T~ ~RU.PSKI. Correct MR. J(~P, JE~: Those are all interrupting the littoral tran s..p??L.'.~ soro~ degree. TRUS~,,E,,E~ ~R~PSKI: Sure. MR. r~. :"~r~.'~'~ ~at structure, we're maintaining doesn't nee~l; ~ ~. anymore to serve that function. 42 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh What is your estimate of effective length of the jetty? MR. JONES: That's what we're saying needs to be studied. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is your business, your education, what is your estimate on the effective length of the jetty? MR. JONES: That's the question I'm say!ng needs to be qua'ntified. If the applicant wants to restore this jetty and maintain the inlet, which our clients are saying they're all for that proje¢, then that needs to be determined what an effeCtive, length of tha~t jetty is going to be such that no add]tionaf harmful impact ;WozJld occar to the down drift beaches~ KRUPSKh What was that effective length included / [o the original length? ~ the jetty to its original length, ;I to the 300 feet? No. I think they're 150 feet beyond that. ik¢ 450 or 500 feet. Suppose it included in the original the MR. [Iow ~ ~ work and what the jetty , and why they're regulated so sand. They interrupt the sediment to the down drift accrete until it reaches 100 can move around the edge of At what -- ~JES: At what point is that? That is what needs to be stu:di~¢~ T;hat is:what ne,ods to be determined. T ~,I~J$~E.E....K,,RUPS~h This jetty has been there for over 80 years, arid it s never accreted anywhere near the end of that j~t?y. MR. ~¢INES: That's correct. -¢RU~$.E.E KRUPSKI: You're saying that at some point in time t~at ~a,~id,will~ accrete to the end of the jetty?. MR. ~tEJ!NJ=S: No. Most of the sediment transport is going to occur, in the surf zone. That's where the wave action stirs up the,sand, suspends it. Moves it down drift and settles back.aLit again systematically over the course. So different wave 6onditions over time that's what generates the sediment transport. This area here, there's no breaking waves. -Fherg'S. n. ot going to be much sediment transporL MR. ~RE~SLER: When you say out here, you mean from this out (tndioating)? MR. JOHNSTON: So, if you add another 150 it doesn't make any difference? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Did you hear that? If there's another 150 'feet jetty, it wouldn't make any difference? MR. JONES: It makes a huge amount of difference. ~t's going to continue to impound up here and collect sand here. The beach is going to continue to, accrete. As the beach moves out, that surf zone is also going to move out and more sand will come in andl do that. Butat some point it will reach ~ ~ need to be that far out? ~ry beach? g~ngto provide us that the studies haven't been done, without having that The upshot of the study, as I said earlier, studied the field made a proposal that the following work has 1.4 be done in or. der to quantify and give you the answer thai and you don~t have that answ. er. I enough we'll find out the J of looki:ng for a recommendation s r~ot a fair statement, if you study it -1 was there are specific types of §.to be done within a particular time f~a.'two [o g~ve you the answers to the questions that you l~.~j~tlp~~ ~ ~t~ th~at was allotted since the Board ~ ,~ d~e,;~ ~r'from a coastal engineer the ~a~. ~,~r~ac e~'ls ~;s. f you want the answers to t~os~,~.', e,~,e'r~~ ~:~,.'h~:~ld you the nature of the studies that ~ ~E~.q,rn!.~,e~ ~l;~at wdl be measured and what (~uar~t)f~l~l~ ~'~ts~ ~¢ there from. I don't see how ,, ' . ,~: ~,.?.,~ ~ ~ . . . :" .. R::'. :: ,: ~'~ ,~ '.. ",' .;: ,' . r. .]uestons s Whose .: . ~.,: . ' ...... .,, ;.~ ..... ? ,,~ ,I :,.n.. ::., ......... :t. And is it goi.ng to ' ,"'.,,.' ........ h: ........ · - ::~ quantitative analyses on · '.". ....~".' '.":,.~.~ ti ~. ~.,.,'".. . .... ,~:.. ,. ,...,,. ques OhS. '.'.,~ '..'~~. .. . , ,.% "1~1 ~'.,~. ' '~: 'e existing structure, all ~.~rei-~y~iis~ With~ p~o~gc studies, the existing structure does ~ ~a~e~t,a~be .als ~.n~g as t s n our op n on -i~R~,U~'~E.~I~d~.~;!WOE~ May I ask how many nickels it would cost to u'.. i" ,:;: '''~ "::' ~:':':'::'~ ' ..d? MR...,.,~,:. I~::,,~:' ,,.:... . itwould really depend on the scope, but on the order of tens of thousands, $10,000, $20,000 to be a proper modeling. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's a three week period? MR. JONES: Three, fourweeks probably. MR. BRESSLER: That's what he said. MR. JONES: Allow me to finish. What we're trying to say is thatthere's'an optimal design for this inlet. We don't believe it'sa repair project; it's a major rehabilitation. If you're going to do that, instead of just putting it out to where it was [or no reason, there's no reason it needs to be 30~0 eel: 1or, g; They haven t de.mo, nstrated a need for ~t to, be300 feet on~, other,~han Ghats just where t s K~RUPSKI: Can I ask you a question? : Sure. Mr. Bressler proposes you spend three ) this survey. The applicant proposes to rebuild You come back after three weeks and you is 304 feet. Is it possible engineer could look at this and say nether three weeks and say, no, the ; is that possible? ~umber than yours? ~,nd the reason for that. would be, quite ifferent assumptions based on their ~lysis, different factors of safety. ,.; :," '",:..'. :~; '.nalysis is done. But I don't argue ["::. · '.~ '., ',;::u ~J '.,,, :', ',rent answers. '.' ~ :] ~ :S~._:','{: J.; .ou have none. ; are no answers right now. question. There was side of this inlet about 10 we feel greatly, to the loss of can you address that? Jo you have for that contribution? Because when you place a hard structure on ~n the wave energy hits that hard ~pate, and it scours out of,it. It brings the beach material out be replenished because gy can bring it back in. that's probably only half the S~Ory. put bulkheads there -- TRUS'['~E XR~. PSKI: Is that a valid theory of coastal erosion? MR. ,JONES: You've just described scour at a bulkhead. But 45 I don't think that's what's happening. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You don't think the bulkhead scoured the beach there? MR. JONES: No. I think these people built the bulkheads in Order to protect their upland area because the beach was disappearing. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I was on the Board, I think it was late '80s when we got a request from Mr. Ball -- in March of '87 - to inspect. He wanted to put in a bulkhead. At the time there a_aS about 35 feet of'beach in front of his property. We uti0ned Mr,. ~Ball.that he would, n all likelihood, lose his 8each and be~ch elevation, ~ a result of this bulkhead, wh ch lout the course of years on the bay, is down /beach This was the la[.~e, duni.n.g, of the beach Ihor~,~as no Dulkhead ever cogs.!.'r~tod'in [ro'nt of that beach and ,novcthe Waters du.ri.~g §(orn~ surge I'm sure are going boh'ind exis!.~g dog I~[~ s~rd~bfC,.'CQtfir~g through the inlet 'on the other side. That seawall vr&rsus beach fig.bt is a classic ono We (:]dL it all the time. My Master's,research ,,vas dealin~'~,li~h'a similar,topic and by fixing.itho shoreline with th~'.Sa,lkh6ad, you'ro noL in~cr~g~ie .eroSion rate in fron[ oi .tflat bu khoad. Someth~g/~'~au'Sing that er~sil0 TEUS~ sOme,¢~ oftthe ~ A~DI:E] c~es- TP, U$1fF~E KRUPSKI: Sir, you have to come up to the m!.Crophone. MR. prbf~ s~pr( w.~ati MR. 4 not co[ B,KRUP, SI~I: -rhatls what we've seen in the field ~¢: [~ k~)w thatlt appears that'way. And you are to eht h~elding back sand upland but the .disappearance ' bea~h,~vidth is not becau~s6they put u:p a ~,E MEMBER: Excuse me, are you saying that in all iACK: Tom Lusack. My question is, is it your ~)nal opinion that a bulkhead that is parallel to the ~,does not contribute to any beach scouring ~er?. lES: It can contribute to beach scouring, but it does bute to the beach erosion, the long term erosion 46 rate. What we're maintaining here is this is over the long term. This has been happening before the bulkheads were there. The bulkheads were put there as a result of the long term erosion, not the cause of it. But this is really irrelevant. The down drift bulkhead is not -- TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's not-- one moment Mr. Baize. It's very relevant because the issue here isn't the reconstruction of the jetty, the issue here seems to be the cause of erosion on the west side of the inlet. So it's ~,ery relevant. I'm sorry, Mr, Bafze. MB.,BA1Z~B: C,ouple of,things. If you go back to the 1960 a~ri~al pl~togEaPh~ artd earij~r, on the w~st sidle of that i~.lef4 there u~d, to be abe;ye water level, superstructure of a c0~,~Ple of oB~barges. ~voc?8'en barges tlhat had been put in there who knows when, but. in fact. that's what helped reLain so muci~ of '~he beach LhaL used to bo there. And those barges, Lheir woo. don superstructure deteriorated over the years. Npw. the dr t -- I':moan that whole shoreline from Town Ci'eek down 'Lo I~brt o1~ Egypt is 'fairly well balenco.d, b,o[~y¢~n,wii~er and summer drift, We don't have a lot c [ shoreline' there.and sources for repJbnishment from othoi-are~s. I[',g not'like s Mbntauk Point· And geoiogi/;ally M.e~tauk used. to be,a,n island. After the glaciation, ~ 1 ;~6,~). 1'2,000 ~,,ears ago. And. over the intervefling 10.'¢~0 or 11,L)0.0. year~, the.summertime drift from the soutl~z,es( and' the southwest trade winds, then the wintd~'tirhe net':Caste'rs; tb..e.~ ~ept feeding lrom the island. And ~:vhai is. [.l~¢i~)r.omorftory.in AmaganSett. when you come down oil tho I/ill in A~'.agsnsett.to x:ross the ro~td going out to Montauk you' drcJp.:~.aboul: 30'.to 40 feet irt elevation. But thos~, two po h~sh,~¢re ;chh so~Jrces'for sand that u t mate y · '. . .,.~ ~,, ;.., . - . filled ~n and cSn~,c,.~t.e.d ,It~lontauk, Island tb tho east end of EasL Hamffto~. l't.l~aU.~t¢~erffef~dous volur~es of sand'.. On our shorelirfe f¢om ','rosn.'C?eek entrance at Founder's Landing to dowr' to Port of ~.".cj'¢C';gt, there is not a lot of source material [or sand. So to',.s,a~.the, depos~t~on ~n Brian s photograph, ' h. if you move fror~. ~ .r.e;, looking at it rro ~ this dire(~iioR. Ipok. ing f¢om I~f..t'~fi right or northeasL to sout.hwost, slta t~,v.e .say,, or ~orth o south. Lhore is not a lot ef S~¢9 ~ tl~:",k:,e:~,rep e~ sh:,(~ t~ose beaches And my,'Ox~ :~r~.'.~¢,j~t 0fli~/ing the~'e f~! almost 60 years has be~n Lhat rri.o¢t of our beaches are ~t in ~he water in fret t of us. W~o'n. ~'¢¢,.. ~Jon t have regu a~,~'ep.len shment storms anC~..,¢.,. ,~,~to;n t~at~drlye ii on~ bea:ch. And we havoa ~ had tt~los about 18 or 19 year~. We've had to rely on ~'~i~it~,dothat. 4? Now we have had some nice sou'easters back in '96, '97, we had about 18 nor'easters or storms that winter, a dozen of them being nor'easters and another six with Iow pressure area over central Long Island that put us in that nor[beast quadrant so that we would have 50 mile per hour winds straight in our face on that shoreline, and we got nice beach building from those wi nter storms, not the nor'easters. And I'd also argue that when that jetty was its full length, it created a beautiful wave shadow for the downwind beaches, or the weste~, beaches in the winter[ime n of the ¢ 150 feetin pad, and t are no longer I know, they That jetty structure is what's intorr~Jpting Lha'!. [Iow of sand. I~ the absence of that natural littoral transport flow of sand dew, the be~fch ~hich is being interrup[ed, then Lhe upladd' is where',the n~xt source of sand.' comes from, from the waves a~tackingi, tho boacb..upland. We have photographs in our roporL showih~j, tha:[ what is h~ppeping there is the banx is in ff~.ct ero~'~g. Trees are'fallin~ide,;~n and that's where tl~.b sanU,is,.derding from, because ires no[ coming from the o~her;, s,ide ef tt~.6 inlet. All w~'re s~. gge..s't, ing is proper engineering done coulc m'ihCmize th~!l~rlgth or tho jel,Ly while still serving Lho ourpqse~o[ rrrg.,bzt~i'ning a stable beach to the east, ...... .¥~; ..... m~n~z~r~¢f.the dr...~dgl~g requirements w~th~n the ~nlets itself. It's~p.l~l'lr~,~.;,.,at' reconfiguring the inlet, perhaps with two'.lb~r;allel st.rb(~tures instead el Lhe one dog log structure~, ~.~l~icb, n~i~'hf'a[so be harm ng the f ow of sand. T,h~'s all we'.re say~ng is that proper engineering shou(d g,e ~rfLo do~k':rg Lbi~s. ane not just an arbitrary -- build it back th~ way ~L ~.a~bo.causo. why ? There's no support as I'o whey i!:h~e, ds to,~..e. ~O~),[ooL long. 'I'RUSTEE I~RUPS~KI: T.'hank you. Anyone else? MR. BR~SLER' T.l'fose are yours !.he exhiuits TRU :S'I'~,',E:.I~RUPSK. I: Th.ank you. Anyone else? MR. AN:J3E. RS.O. N: I',d Ii.kc [o respond !.o what I've hoard brioi'ly, a~d I"m. going ~to ask you to c ese the record TRUST~,EJI~R..'M',PS .Kh G'o ahead. MR. ,.~N..~E-'RSOfN: i' I~ave looked al. Lhis for about 14 months. 48 This fellow Mr. Jones has looked at it as a coastal engineer. I can show you with what we've put in and what he put in that the application before you is entirely proper. First thing you got to understand is, we're not going bacKto 1965 in this application. We never have done that. We went back to 1932. We provided you with survey information that showed you the. existing,~etty, that existing beach profile, there it is. It's in your record. We went frbm there, fast fo~ard to 1946, and we see a similar'situation here. These are surveys done in .su~ bdiYision. Mr. Bal'l. owns one of those back to 1965, and they have and they all show the same thir is quite interesting too, really replacing 75 l is submerged. out 160 feet that w~ro tl~o.ro'50~ears, ago. They are~nOt part of this applic~Lion, We are'not seeking to replace them. They don't ¢~lculatej'nto [ho 75 percent of anything. He's also said .~,~m.etl~i~g'we~ interesting too. ~nc~ thaf~ iS ~hat if this jeL. ty,h~d d.,~t(cn'.d'ed iout to its origi~al'i~)int, that the entire - that. [~9 beach,would grow to the t~ermmus of the jetty, and t§o0~'.a,'t,tl3at'.po~t be Lransp0rted .t,o the west of the j¢[Ly. 'Fha't~ tTR,~, e.xcopL every pLece, of ~nfOrmation ~n froa't'of y~u:~.as Hot shown that iml~aC~. In fact, his own photos,an~h~s .o~0,sta;temenLs say that;that portion, of the beach. ~pp.b?ars ,tb.~e th:e ~amo. It terra ~iy. ooks that way when I lool~ at tt~at. 3',e. t,h!.~,.pd,~."~:;that this jetty is somehow going to causo,[h~s .pr~l~len~ ~s nat supported by anything that has boon .pbt, t~'o~'¢~r~eord, and in fact, what is part of the recor~t ¢s~.~r.~p]t~'~' :' "" in-kind'in-place replacement of this easLern jo.~. ~:,[ything hororo you supports that. Even !he contours, .maketeSt. he showed you supports my underlying finding~th~l~i~ i~if~ri,~ional, and if you Io~k at the con!.qb'~::li~.~ba~f~'l~lr. Jones has just put rite the record, he wi'll'.~he.~;y.FO,~...cbrifirm once again that,the depths inside the jetly s¥~t~Sm,~re, in facl. deeper than outside the jetty. '¢,h~).~'ea~,s it's functional. That means sand is be'ng.l~a~ 1Ll~r y,C~r new code th's wou d be treated as an a~ i~; ~h~re ~s no dOubt-that everything show.~ .~'~t~'i"l~: je~ beibgimain~ainecl as it was all the way I:Ja~;k.!t'.~,;d~,l:9~3'0s. tha~ ~h~re was. a beach n front of those ~om~s~l.o,i.l~e west. And the only thing this record has demonstrated to us or anyone else who wants to look at this thing objectively, is that those beaches, the loss of those beaches coincide with the construction of those bulkheads ~for those properties. The reality is, I don't believe as an applicant we have any obligation to put a beach in front of Mr. Ball and his neighbor's house at all; nor do I think you have an obligation to do that. I think what happened here was a simple choice was made when these people bought their properties. They I,argest houses they could put up. l in and the ~ ' side occurred, term twe db know th,at, the moment that ~s~ b~lkhe~'ds wer~ pul. in. coincide wiil~ ~e loss of that So to say th(z bulkheads t'~,~e' r~),thing to do with beach erosion, west of.this inlot is ~mj~iel~ely ' UnSLq~porLed. In fact i,t's conlrad ct,~d i~,y,t~.record Therefore, i'h[s applica~on shah:Id be approved. you'll see wha~ tho, bu k;~i~a~l- s up, bulk earl breaks down. Thank you. I'm John Hren, I've been a resident 947. I've spent a lot of time on ]e observing the bulkheads, on them, water skiing around he water. I think to mention here is very question, really. If you the air since 1930, whatever, s to be true. That ;eem to be fine. As the seems to go away. But you ~vouldn't know this by the was done there, and with that huge basin was put kids used to climb in those sand was just working its way down lng. But it was keeping the bea( m s~ide. No~.v the dredging, that huge ,dredging hasn't been done for a Io, ng. long Lime. and the~'e, for~, the beaches could not b~-i'ffp~i!.i~hed~, S~! the~ bulkhea¢ing that was there and alwa~'s.~n ti~ere, ha~ [Se~n const~ntl~ eroding the down 50 drift side as obviously the engineers are saying· It's very obvious· If you didn't know all that sand was put there, you would certainly come to the conclusion that the bulkheading isn't the cause. But by reason of the fact that there ~s no sand be ng put there. ,the erosion is more evident than happening constantly since I was a little kid, and since I was playing around on there. And used to watch it and observe it constantly from the day we started there. So the real problem is the bulkheading, the jetty. The other Doint thet seems to be cear to me, and I hope you. v~ould~ look at.this is, if you make a decision that they (~an I~U tl~i~.~large~)utkhead ~ut there, this large jetty and you?;~,, TOr~g~'tt~'¢a:m:ag~ i.sld(~pb and ~here's r~ething we can ~19~ ~2' i"~. bra. ~;~[~ ha?~d, iCyou aJiOw them td put a, st~d~ I ~me~ ~:th~t:wou~B'i,.s¢ retain, the ea,storn beach:, a,~ ¢¢~1~.t..¢~ the r watery, ~ ve done two .things: You ~.gbfh, 'to do wlflat.tlieywa~ .and ~,e all agree ~ koep .that.~anal open.' and yr3u'r¢ gping~o give a chance to see if our ~sid,e' is right: And if w,e{~ w~)0g, then there~s no damage that's going to be irre~rablle. It can always be fix.ed il,tho answer really is e~e~di~ the jetty. B~t jetty Ct~r~9~.,g,e,.;~ ¢~djn'9 ~.be done We wil'lose thee rest 5fou~ be. ach. ~n~we ~411 have no beach. MR. BALL: Ti3m B~U. Dr. Friedman and; I got together on this. ~o wanted to.do tha! in an intell 9~ef~t way. When P~gg~'..rec;om~eaded.go t~5 an eng ~e~,', thoughtthatwas and intelli~.nL~*/&¥'to do it, And my directive to the engineer ,,vas. I' saint just, co~o up with a solutiomthat will allow them~o g.8!. tboir bo'ats out of [his private marina. This is I)ublic lad4! ~,4here this, jetty is on, allow them to get their boat out. and ,r~hat. would be iho point where we can shorten tneje~y. I tri;e.~J lo say. could you do ~tqu]ckly. So tt~iey ~re. p~.~,~,f,o~- eigb~f~ut:s n~ne hours n the water · :" " ........ ' ". ..... ~:' 'e to complete the work, [: ~, , ,,,,:;.,,; .",.. , · · :,,. ,,.,h,, .... I,.:...!.';, :;';, the velocity of the ......... ~,., :;-.:.i,.I,, ,',:., .... "it was, I don't follow t,....4. "': ;';1hi ,'.,".',,., I ' .';.'!. ,'; "' i~om him a number, · .. · ................. t give y ~": .... ,,. ';i .. .,,.. ' ..... . ,: .... 'J I canou that r,. ..'".'t,r, ':~',: ~ .'.~," "..::i., ..,,.. .... ;. ; ..'r ber until I'm · ,,. ', ,:., ......... '".' .', ,. ,, ' ::s. And I believe him. (;' [1":': , :'i llcn~ V¢',,l'l';,: ,=.,: ".' ,, "n. You're saying, v.,, ' ,'.'~'. I;i:;{; ,,r"('r,, ,.~ ..,:~ ,~.,. I. ,.; ih~.:[going to be three feet olcay~ H~."'f,bib 'me a;[l~i~,t)'3 and sa'd don't g've lengths. Right, ay i~e said; we, there s 70 feet m~ss~ng 51 Mr. Nickles said· Obviously there's no jetty there, obviously that's not stopping it. He was going to base it on that. I said don't do any of that· Wait until we do the complete study, until we can get a length that will keep the Creek open in a satisfactory manner, and still mitigate the erosion to the west as best we can. also asked him to consider the damage that would .happen to Mr. Nickles, property, said is there.any damage that's been done. He said absolutely none, from all the ~!udieSl th,at I~av~,been done. I said make sure of that. I said, !,do~J't'w'a~.to pu.Limy neighbors at risk. I donr~ Wan~to liVerWEh thal~ responsibility. Andc~his whole idea ~ g&iila after person~atfm~ckS~because [ war~t to have a n~ice~se~ tha~iS~ rjdiq~l~)pS.. Yo~ know, clean hands and a~,th~,~nbnsenSecar~.~e~heoth~rWay, l~m getting very disappointed with you. You're supposed to bo a professional. Let me finish.. I.'m sLill speaking. You can ~ pea~, in a minute. Okay. The point is. what we~want is a fair ,~'..'udy. Under Lhe new 9:7 rules, we havo a chance to study 'this and do~.t ihtelligemly and fairly. And there's noLhi'.qg wrong ~ith..gping~ahe~d and'letting them d.o the rosuamh 'and gb't a,recommonded le,ngth. To ask him to say ( an yo:u chop ~0 fe~'t off, he. could throw numbers out but he woul'l'Jn~L and. I re.sp,bct 'hi,rg for tha[. He sa. id you~hortestly have:to do [he wave. s.tu~!es, and you have to fid!sh the differ, er1[ sLudJes. I said 'f, ig'e, I don't ful!y understand thai.. 'bat I do ~rusLt'he. scidhfific dietheds th~ Lhu---,y were using. You. dan':tju~'t.d!srb, gard.~[bat. You. ha, vea resp~,nsibility,.. Ii.kd. ~ir. Fl¥c-Jh 'fi~d ~aid. [o meet the. needs of this community. T~s is'ppb~lic'.proped.y tHat'you'~'e trying Lo protect. [tt~ ,~ priv. aLe Crock. only for priva]~e uso. There's',~o other pe.eple that can use [ha[. M~. Ni'c~les c~n usoi.[fi,et and the, priyato citizens on [t~aL creek c.~"m use it. Tbd.~e's',no f. igl~'L hero about them gp;tLirg'.:Lh.e[r boats o..m. Tl~at. was!.always our primary objec[i?e wh~'n ,wo ~,¥ere ii~ commit~e~. That was our number one o. bjectivo: Wh'~ can We do to.g.e.t the. boats out and then .:ha 'rinait.seJect'ion .w,~s on get JOhn Nickles protected· I askecJ John 'Ni~,kle~. what can ~o.d.o as a comm ttee? Can we get in a coastal ehgineer? Timo and time again, ;u; ~.,tl;: ",; .... :' ':l'.',;l~:':'",j,::::..d~/Jt. Now, wehave ," ...... p..,., ,'.,; ::,:.r: :: .,~d~Li s study. '11 even ,,.J .I,, , Illi~.;,r '.:,.,",,.'. " ' " , .... ,' ' '"" b:',.' ',.,i , ~ljeve that the t,"';.", "~,:"'1 : ,, ... ..... .,',,~ ,~ ,. · . . " " .... ,.: ' · :;.,,.". ~b'~ateVe th ~,.~', ';.,;~,: :::: ,,i I .11 ........... ,.I . '"" ":i r e number. ~::. ::;'. '.'.: ::.:;.. ,: r"'i"J:q :5;: ~...:!~: .~l".. ' maintenance dredging, 52 so that we get it down to a minimal length to minimize the damage. To say these bulkheads are causing the damage is totally disregarding the 240 feet now of erosion, it's now behind my bulkhead. It's now cut out. I have a picture. I showed itat the last meeting. The trees are alt knocked out. If you walk out on the ful! moon. flood tide on the tow tide of that, you will walk that jetty and See it's totally porous. That underside, sand flows readily throughout. If you ook at this situation, c that disappeared, '88, what about all I for, all this sand fSO, the bottom That was a go his..-Ehey v.,eren't feeding it anymfore. This didn'l, disappoar because of rny bJIkhoad Bulkheads' came in long after that and'there is possibl~ truth to the defledted'en,ergy bocauso of the '.'~lk~eads. But,trust me. I didn't[ wan[ [o spondthe money For that. nor did I want the bul'.khgad. I only did it oat of d(~sp.gr~-tion because I could see whaL was happeni~ng, I'd mL~,~ ?~ther have ~be~a.~l~ rn frdnt'of~my house. I hate the 9uJk?ead. I'm afraid;of somebody gol. Ling hurt and getting the., I!abilil. y and tailing e.n the r. ecks. I hate it. But I i~a;vo ~.o have it because, of th~; tremendous orosion that's vel th,~y're doing work for the Coast They're doing work over at He's not 8fl~ by night outfit. This is a Re had 8. brochure. He's very They nad the brochure, and This is not a fly by ~roughout the country. n New York City: They do a lot This is noi a company that you can just say ~rnoke and mirrors. It"s not. l'really believe the bridge rtrusts them. Why )'the extra Bail, would you work with mmunity has stood ~g to support you. At the the community 53 members came forward and said we're in favor trying to get this thing shortened It's ridiculously long. All we're trying to say is shorten it. It doesn't have to be 308 feet. Certainly at some distance less than that. 70 feet is obviously gone, but some distance less than that. I don't Wantto affect them so they can't get their boats Out, but there has to be a tradeoff and that's all we're asking. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Anyone else? MR~ JOHNSTON: Mr. Ball, can I askyou a question? MR. BALL: Mr. Jones. I took- I was reading it tonight oye~coffee. [,took out his pemo!~al information. If you'd like; J~ mn, get t~ tq you hts qualifications. TR~ST' 'EE KRL~P~SK1; S~re. , M,RI : that to you. I m sorry. 'ko to ask you does your expert or jetty? because you know when we were ~pany from Woods Hole come in. geologists as to know her also on the ,~y know each other. She came She said we have to study it. e the width of the s that maximize their ability to ,.'. "'.,r' ::c.:'.:¢ :.'.~..,, .;'", ,; ,.;',) cost less maintenance for · ,:J'. ':~::!," -, r' ~,~':. ,.:: '.'~ 6redging, and also minimize the :.,.~ ...~ :.! .,,.,,:..:.... I. :.......',orals, the sand will be able to mat's all we're saying. legal questipn, Mr. Johnston, and I'll ~= of your code the answer [~, is. l~r. J~nes, do you a.gree with that? you repeat the question? that this jetty is at least 75 serving the purpose for which it,s MR'; dudn~ point. I do not. I didn't hear him say yes or no on that I think it's an important MRs, ANDERSON: If I may, he previously stated that it was functional, and his own contour information demonstrates that: [t does trap sand. The purpose of that jetty is to 54 trap sand therefore it is functional. There is no doubt about that. One other comment. I want to make that I heard that was interesting~ and that is something that was the question as to give us a half a jetty or some fraction of what we feel we're entitled to, and if it doesn't work out we can come back sometime in the, future. You all must understand that[he ability, the rigt~t to rebuild that jetty depends on its being funct!onal. Whil,e we have been in the application proCeSs,,,, spme i4. m°nths,, that jet[. y, particu a~:]y_ ~ ts end~:.has~incur~C~d s:ignif Cant dam~age. So v~e walk away with a halJ: a j~tty b~' ~hat~er number, ~the.tin0, e We frggre out Whether'it's Sufficient or noti ~e w'j I be no abiijty to roplaco it back to its original'l~er~gth~ a~ I ~n~a[~ the len(jth tha'~'s beir~g applied for'hot't~ 1.60 feei:~at we're not e~en applying for. TRUSTE. E KRUPSKh Thank you. could 1 ask you, because of your out, could you answer the Mr. Ball and Mr. Bressler? functional or not? an whether it's 5 percent intact?. th~at the portion of the jetty physically intact. not asking to replaced, f intact, but we're not asia[rig:to ~ie~ calculate them whether it's physically 238 feet is physically intact.out of the'308. ~l'haI makes 77 percent. The second part is wh~thor [~. s,arves the functioa for which it was d~.si.cj',nod, and I think eve,ybody ,has agreed that it's serving [he f'~"nction for which it's de~igned,'wt~ich is to maintain ~.t~c det~tbs in be.~veen '~.he ch'annel. That's the simple answer ~.o tl-e.~, uestipn. MR. J,OHNSTON: Thank you. 'I'RU~TEE KR~PSKI: I have a question for Mr. Jones. quick to the comment. ~lptely. certification from a t their opinion on the Just looking at the Jil~t do that assessment either, it ever the functionality 55 or intactness of a structure without it being defined of what constitutes a full functionality, what constitutes the full intactness of the structure. If the structure in its original condition was filled with sand, that whole crib Structure, now it's down and there's water inside there, if you look at porosity of the structure, gaps in between each individual plank, count u p the number of planks; are the tie backs functional? There are several'tie backs shown in the i~hotographs. You kpow what point, where is the definition o.f, funbtionality and how mu~h of the funct on and what is ~l~e ~rfor' ~rr~a~ nc-e'and what Lsthe defit~on? ( ;learly you can s~e,~o o~pposigg sides, there side says that is, Our s~de 5elieves that it's not. TRUSTEE DICKE. RSON: Were you just stating thatwho's to doci6o tho do..finition of functional? MR. JONES: Yes. The statement in the clause in there is sa~g 75,~rc4aat. in~or performing to the extent that it ~~?~' b.u~t.w~t its intact? The fact that there are ~&¢~i~¢~Cking Up ~,t tl~ere. 75 percent of those boards, is that structui-ally inta~? Or is structurally intact more of iLs original'conditions,with the full sediment inside the strut{ute iritact, tie backs, corrosion on the tie backs. TR.U.STE~{E DICKERSOI'4: I was just going to read that our new code and, ou~ definition for actual jetty is a jetty or groin thf[' is aL IoasL 75 percent physically intact and serving the ourpor~.es it was d~slgned for. And I think that's what we have be. eh addressing LonighL MR..BRBS~SLER: The problem with this particular definition is tbs.[ it dSresn't'contain definitions to the definitions. That's what we're trying to point out. I think the first arg.,ument the applicant makes is a jetty or groin that's at lea~t-'75, percent intact, well. [haL encompasses two notions: 75 perqeC~t'of what? 75 percenL ol'what? You, I mean, you co ,el~.. eng.age in an argument to the point of absurdity and say well. I only want [o replace 10 feet and all of it is 100 per, cent intact. So the Board ffrst has to address what T~L~.~iGt~ER~,S~OI~ th nk we've merit oned that the 75 pe~rff'~l~;~l~ oft~e ~00'feet that they re applying for. MI~. BBE~LER: The original jetty was 500 feet. TR.U~'FE, E DI CKER.SON.: BUt that's not what they're applying for, M~ ~' ~ i~ tab rt-kndJn- aceapp cat on then MF~ '.B~_~; A j~et~, th.at is at least 75 - they want to rel:l,]a~¢t al~p~n o~be ietty; Your code doesnt say that. No~v' t ~s.or~ te phys fally, ntact. What does that mean? 56 I don't know what physically intact means. And you have no evidence except a conclusory assertion that something s physically intact. TRUSTEE KRU PSKI: We have documentary submissions by many people. MR. JOHNSTON: What about Mark's comments? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I was going to let Mr. Bressler finish. Then I was going to read that in for the records. MR. BRESSLER: Are there gaps? I don't know. How do you measure it?. We have 238 feet. Is it in the identical They're saying it's 77 Nhat is the measure that purposes it It.was - originally it was a box Oneside is completely It was ,. agrees it's no longer ~rpose for any of is not doing which w~to stop, me flow of sand. :.S.o,. I~ke I ~said, you got to engraph definitions upon def'mi, tjo, n. And I don~t s~e that as a ~natter of ~aw, tl~at it m~s any of{hose tests, and we don't th nk tha~ t's fun~t~nal. TR~:,~EE KRUPSKh I think I disagree with you on what the cod~ ~. I think the code is pretty clear, and I think it's ea~ ~nough to see whether or not, in fact, this Board has ma~e ove~ the years, has made many decisions on whether a stru¢(~'e is or is not functional based on the physical strU~t~e itself. MR,'I~RESSLER: To be functional does it have to perform all ch it was designed, some of them, 50 to do a sand transport study? If it's I~ can we conclude that it's not ~e~e at it was originally designed to do? I don't think I can put a number on it. How do you decide then? How do you decide on Actually, in this case we have the envirenr~ental planner of the Town actually gave us his opinion, and he's of the opinion that this structure, in fact, i~ fr~nctional MRi I~R~,~SLER: Based on what? TRL~,~,~EE~KRUPSKI: Based on his experience and his education. 5? MR. BRESSLER: Based on what facts? MR. JOHNSTON: His review of the aerial photos, his visiting of the site, his -- MR. BRESSLER: But those are not facts. Those are things he looked at. Based upon what factual basis is he making that determination? TRiJSTEE KRUPSKh Based upon anyone looking at it. They look at the aerial photos, they look at the site infpections, they take some measurements and that would ~e afl- MjI~. BF~ESSLER: There halve to be factual findings, and there ha' 'e to,,be conclusions. And in the absence of factual f~'m lings aOd Coqclusions, no determination can be ~ or~al,. W~allAnOwth~t. Tbat'sthe standard. And in ¢b$~ ceof~osetwb-thJn sforsorceonft0 sa Iooked ,.~ ~O. g Y , ~ ! ~8~haz~s ~hat 1' think, we all' I~no~wthat ~hat doesn't ~g and the short of it is, if you folks decision under new Article 97 preamble,, the new Article 97, the g it. We're missing a lot of preservation, we want. to do the right a no-brainer for you. You invited people to (. go for it. You need the f~s, going to be hurt by it. There is no has refused your,invitation to do Up. You've got to lose and s if the expert so be it. ; two )ne. One is And e tod, and you can have · But wh~t you can't have have no~. Yes, Mr. Ball from the begin0ing this has become is it ~cture that was originally that ha(~ a boat basin, that had this to do a part of But okay, if you awed. The three years old. The survey does not do Ob¥iously it's been tremendous e, probeblythe greatest env ronmenta 58 damage on the shoreline in decades in the Town of Southold. This is ridiculous that this has gone on this far. The application itself never should have been accepted because that's how much environmental damage has been done. ?RUSTEE KRUPSKh How can you prove that? That's just a statement. MR. BALL: We've lost almost 240 feet of land over the years. TRUSTEE ~RUPSKI: Someone said that was dredge spoil that was placed there, MR; .BAI~L: That's ridiculous. You Iookat the survey and it .Sho~s~a lot them. That s not spoils, yeah, they kept 'fi!llb~ the:Jot back in, right.. But that lot was a lot at oh~poi~t~ ~(~s, they tried to maintain it and eventually th~ Cpu ,dh t f~i!j~it in .a,.nYmore, so they lost a lot. But ~hat:that wash t -- there was actually farm fields what hal~pe.ned over the years it got That wasn't fill out, they tried to maintain way 'to maintain it, it's go~ I impa~t here. The The survey is dated, PrObably the And it, is huge, and t? j~'st ignoble that. to'jus!, totally s~y the A~]e ,97 only al~pl[os !.o.'cerLain individuals, that's how I~ad this geLs. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI. We re not ~gnormg ~t. We re st~ I here. We,.haye,,been~,here for months. That s not gnormg ~t. MR~ B~L[ w it'shapPen ng is you have some v~ry honest peo'p[e~re eydon t want to go outas an estab shed flrm'.a~i~ay, rike sta~ments. They d rather study it. Why don~'~:t:'Y~°b err o Side of caution. Why do we want to allow a ridi¢~lOQ~Jy Ior strUcture? Why not allow it to be sho~i~e~, an~l ssen the' environmental impact? You're in a pOsitid~tO do:l:. We'.ye offered to share the cost with Mr. 'N~i~SJ ~ 're is the pro:blem? Why does he need it 300 fe~:lo~ Wl~ a~n't w,.e. ~ry to c~me up with a solution, a comp.r:~se t¢ ,to. m~tigate the erosion? What is wrong with t~g to d,o,.that? That's the environmental correct things:~:~o. ~at's why we're all. here.. At least that's whY~yc~e~e here, , TR~3~E KR~PSKI: Ive got a question for Mr. Jones, finally gett~ng~o.und ~0 it. is it possible to shorten the jetty 59 to Such a length that it would not effect the erosion to the properties to the west at all? MR. JONES: The down drift erosion side that you're saying can we get the jetty to a length such that everything's equal? TRUST.EE KRU PSKI: Mitigate the jetty length? MR. JONES: Yes. You can design the system, I believe -- this would all come out in the proper engineering studies. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I know. That's something that's not here. Sc) wecan't say this could happen, it could not happer~ I'm asking you today, right now~ could a jetty systbm ,b~deSigned, this jett~' or another jetty, that wou d net cause erosion down' drift?. MR. would'be difficult. Whatyou can do is answe¢s no? h Your opinion is if you shorten the jetty, osion? Anyone else here? We're looking through for the DEC permit. to give you no input. Nor is that to offer u p these , taken some of which show the ~that's claimed to be totally intact, Iook~ o~m DR. Bruce, could you come up here, we'd like for clarification, here. Looking at the an¢one is welcome to come up and take a ingat the DEC permit. What was your question? I see a height of four feet that looks ~rent low water, upper the height in this ! irrragme at high tide you're going to have water?. feet above it to Iow tide. What exists now, how many feet? Existing showing it - I don't know the If you look at the photograph, try igh above the high tide mark. Many of the groins which we have given which have looked like this in the past, ir)g with what you know as a Iow profile. iMay I explain how those photographs were ' are? With a Iow profile jetty. 60 MR. ANDERSON: You don't want to make it any lower. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You're saying you want a jetty that's going to be above high water at all times? MR. NICKLES: I think it would be a serious hazard if it was below the water. MR, ANDERSON: I wouldn't want to be responsible. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The question was about the height of the groin that was approved by the DEC versus the height of the currently existing groin, and it would seem from the raphs - and I'm not sure if these photographs were Those are the ones that have not been They are not part of the file. I'm offering them up, they're dated 3/22, I They're dated 3/22. They were in order, and ~lain. what you're looking at. Please do. Go ahead. My name's Howard Friedman. I live to the FOr comparison, may we see the pictures that the western - that the said that they submitted that the jetty was intact ; those? I: That the applicant submitted? Yes. The ones you received tonight. received here are from Mr. No, the ones you received from the applicant to show that the jetty was intact. Be patient here, I've shuffled everything 77 This is what we got tonigt~t. ',Kl: It's Exhibit B, forthe record. And I used this as a basis for their calculations of They stated that the jetty was intact. --E KRUPSKh I don't know, did they state that, that DR. intact; MR.A MR. B MR. A DR:. FI photog Yes, they stated that 250 feet or so was m I correct? ~ERSON: That's correct. ~SLER: 238. )ERSON: 238. :DMAN: As I recall, they submitted this ~iph. This is a photograph taken so far away that it 61 could be a straight line drawn with a piece of charcoal. These are photographs that I took 3/22. They are the west face of the jetty that is being asked to replace, which the applicant has stated is intact or 230 feet are intact. These are photographs of the west face of that ietty. And they were in order from landside to waterside when I handed them in. I don't know what order they're in now. But if you examine these photographs, these are simply telephotos and enlargements, and I would like to point out to ~ ,~ side, directly at them, you are fene~tratk~ns, ' can't be These:are As I Said, if r~uous~ ~Vell~ if you mosf landward one, it has the ¥~S. This is~he most. till it goes on this ~e. MP~:~ BI~,E$SEER: Dr. Friedman, why don't you mark them in dr.'d~r sO~that~the Board can -- I~R~:R,I',EDIV~N:_,, ~, The point that I'm making is that this jetty t[iat~the¥__ ,- ~ - ~lai~,Ls physically intact isn't intact at all. It ~;~di! ~Fholes al] the wa~' along th s These are best see~i al, ibw ti~e. At hiGh'tide, obviously, you can't see Lhom. If you walk down t~ere, in the letter that Mr. Nickles submiI. Lod to this Board some time ago, the last letter -- where is [hat tast letter? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I have it here. D ~ I ' ';' '' ' R,, ,~FR!,, EDfCAN,', T'he, one,, pror had a photoqraph~ _ . He sent .... · ,, ,*"~ , · =,.,,-, J../h te photographs, wh ch cia ms to ':: """'; ~" '~;'i;':;' ~ .... :.o you have that? I didn't ~, .... ~,, ;,,,h '":. ,; that letter that Mr. Nickles sent? d,,,% I ..." KI'4i~; ;S <. ~ere it is, There you go, ':' ~. :' 411 ):.~,',%: ",:';i;. Okay. He shows a photograph here · '," ..,' .. ,2'., ,. ::..,.'1. Standing on the landward side of i~., ,:,' ..... I .... ,.'~ .......... ,..., .'. , ~e:jetty. Now, of course this is ,. "',,,;,.:;. %.:; ',;.i '. ,~ i in shadow, but if you look · ?':,1., .'.:.d ":~,:. ' i~,::<down this thing here, it could · :',Il., . ;,:,~ :~.:,,"n', !,.tyou wouldn't know it, Itwould ,',.~ ~<:, · ·, · .... (', .,'lain, but when you look at it on '.~ ....... ." · .... ,,',,: .ne hole. Now, here is the other one. TR~JSTEE KRUPSKI: Would you consider this to be high tide? 62 DR. FRIEDMAN: No, it's not high tide, but it's partial tide. It's not Iow tide either. That's my guess just from having been out there a long time. Okay. This photograph ts taken so that the bottom ends of the structure are not visible, they're covered with water. You can't see the bottom. You can't see this at this tide. You can't see it. So, what I did, having seen this, I went out there -- this isn!t everi full Iow tide, it's almost full, but not completely full ~ and as you see it, looking a~ it head on as I indi~ is fenestrated so badly all the /along east at the stil,[ fenestrated but least, but ]nd you bok at them, It was a very cold day was blurred. That~s,-~he Monday?. Cold wind. DR. FRIEDMAN: I went out there at Iow tide. Now, Mr. Nicklos in his letter, as I recall, invites the Trustees to co-ne out anrJ Iodk at the site. I would absolutely -- Edc:s going to ge/madder than hell at me but wou d we como a.v s t.from the Trustees at Iow t~de for them to % com~.and see;Wha~tbe physical structure of that thing roally, is, not seen sfSeways, not seen in shadows, but ac!.u~.'.ily'~ee what thf~,,struc[uro is. Then tell me that this je~y'f~'ihraut. 'f'RU,~i"EE .KRUPSKI: Thankyou. Mr. Jones? M'R. J..C~4E'S: One more statement about the survey. 'I'RU',.~EE RRI. JPSKh Actually because he contested this, I'd Iii like him to explain why he thinks aga] M~ We're maintaining this is the jetty structure You can see the contours minus two around the end of the jetty. This is both sides. Furthermore, ~ that bulkhead, you can see a mound [,here, indicating the diffusion of the sand and this is u p on the dry beach even and the planking you've seen there. So ) t:hat functionality question, is it there's a difference in water side, or is it nonfunctional because sand barrier. ~ve a copy of this? : I don'.,t Believe they have a copy of this but [his. 63 TRUSTEE DICKERSON I just have to ask again, because we keep going back and forth with the 75 percent, when you designated nonfunctional is it of the 300 feet of that jetty or I don't know, what's the other dimension? The 500, what'sthe full extent of the original, 500? Or is your :percentage - TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The badly deteriorated part. ,MR, JONES: This part is virtually disintegrated. TRUSTEE DIOKERSON: So your 75 percent is of the 300? yes. That the 75 percent is of the 300? at problem. That's what I'm saying. rget even if, it's 308 feet. Are you ~than 75 percont of that is Yes. And I think ~- And the reason why you're saying is because levat[on here; Js that right. Elevation,here, the mound. To this contour rodfid. To state that there are different t~is side and this side. CN: Th,ere definitely are, isn't it clear that hah this? itsc ear, but how do you exp a n these hyou explain the need to dredge? You agree that sand builds up on this side? Yes. You agree this traps sand because it builds e? Yes. You agree that it's deeper inside than it is which, by the way, would be consistent with th~ s~you agree with that? ~R~, ~' HOw do you explain this contour here? ~LER. Th~s isn t cross-exam~nabon. If it is, I m ~,i~i/SON: My point is this: You're telling me it traps h~re I~ing me it's deeper here than it is here and h~re, ~'~iJ[,~o ypu know -- M,,R~. ~%E~: The point is there's a contour and mound on eiih~r~/, ,¥~at~emonstrates it isn't functioning. Then it'~ p~g back. Mi~ ~ON: Of course it is then the beach wouldn't be h~re. ~ already testified to that. T~S~I~RLJPSKI: Is there anyone else who would like to 64 comment? MR. BRESSLER: You have your contours, you can see what he's talking about. Where all this gets you under the code, I'm not ~certain. I've read it very carefully and I think they still have to meet the permit requirements. And while this is a very nice, esoteric discussion, they're here, they need a permit, and they have to meet the Article 97 standards, and that they, haven't done. And we think that their application in terms of depths and, the surveys, We ~sk it's g~o~ng to be. Wo've. ~ Mr. E~all, and ; and r~ is UP. ;KI: Thank you. That was the purpose of some of the Let's utilize them. Thank you. Just to clear everything by the neighbor to the applicant to :urther. Share. I just want to make it clear the applicant I to that yet. Before we close the headng I MR. Our position is we've met our burden under that we have given you data going back l we met our burden of proof, that we permit, and we ask you to close the envi They're not interested in the offer I .lust that clear. They're not interested, yet you retain the p this open and you require lition I would also point out that the Town our position. The Town's environmental planner it was the structure is functional. When did he look at it, what time? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He studied the file. I don't know the hours that he studied it, the time, I don't know the tide that he looked at it. However. he did look at it and it was his opinion is that it's functional. MR. BALL: I tell you what, if you would like to on your own, the Board, get a structural engineer, say it's intact, coastal engineer, he's tded to show in an honest way that it's not functional, but if you want to do a structural engineerto say it's intact, we'll help pay for that. That's how convincad I am. You have to see it at Iow tide. -rt~is thing is porous throughout. If you walk the ength of t~s, as.E~r. Friedman just i'ndica~ed~ you can' see gaps ~r0'~:~the base th~ ~][-len_g,t,h of it , ~FI~LI~r~ ,~_.~ KF~UpSKI: I dontthinktheres any question that the s~ructure is in need of repair. That's why we're here. If it w,'e~'e 100' ~erce~nt s~ruC~ral[y sound and funct on ng 100 ~ercent, I don't~hinkth,~ applicant would have bothered to Ce~.~ i~ ~o replace it. That's ~hewhole point of us bejr[~i l~¢~e. V'¢~ r~a~ely see a bulkhead or a jetty re~r,~i~J'~-ing~ apptic~a~lon because !ts brar~d new. We always see ~.¢~at.'s ~ta~lng tofajl and at, that point in time the ~lP~caht came~ in to replace Or to repair it. That's MR. '~LL: They're indicating this ~s a sudden event. This is no~r'a sudden event. I have letters, several letters to the A~y~Corps of Engineers, to the DEC, I have to submit, but b~ipally these letters will indicate this has been fa'lling ~j~ar~ for dec. aries. Since I've been there I've wrote s. evera~i,l~te~, one, re the bay constable, ane basically, th~s tl~ing hasn't jus~ happened Th s wasn't a bad winter The S~p;e.rstruCture of this thi,n,g was gone years ago. TRU~'~EE NRUPSK]: I don t know if it was gone, but no q,~es,t!~0 about i~, it's.been -- I mean as soon as you build it star,to dec. ay. It's out in theweathec it's in the wa~er. ¥1~at's ~hen @eopl~ come in to replace things. When it nee~ds i~. They don't come in before it needs it. MR. BAL,~: SO the, you're getting, to the point 75 percent intacf:if y6u wak t, YOu" se~ ts"-net. AIs~ I tried to pointgut Several times I showed it, l~o Edc, the survey they sUbr~e~ is more than a year old. It's Article 97 says it has t~ b~ less than a yea~ old, it's not, it's dated. The hydrographic part of it is da~ed. They did not address the environmental conoe~rn. You can't ~gnore the fact that they lost atremendous amount of land that was par~ of the subdivisian that was not fi'lied That's just the reality of it. It'~ a huge environmental impac~ here that should be considered. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's why we're considering everything. MR. BALL: That's why I'm offering it to them. What is so -bad about trying to study it? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They haven't taken your offer. I think that offer's a dead issue. It was officially made so that · it would get closure on that. MR. BALL: It says in writing they can't submit an application Without a current survey. It's not current. TRUSTEE KRUP.SKI Anybody else briefly?. No. ~,, ANDERSON.. Close it. T~usTE.,rE uPsK' Make a mot on to close the hear ng'~ TRUSTEE POblWODA: 3econd. ~USTBEKR~DPsKI~ All in favor? ALL AYES. TR,0~T~- b'r:'~K~PSKI': Make a motion based on all the information sub~-itied and~'hi'l tr-ie public hearings and all the information submi!.Lod at the public hearing and in between Lhe,p.~blic hearings, and'ba, sed on the information submitted by thc Town E,nvironmerital Planner and Mr. Jones, that -- I'm tryir~j¢~ to fihd !.he ex~ct number -- I'll make a motion -- the application was for re. pl@cing approximately 848 feet of liil~rar..feet~;ef belldlea~.' in~g. The odginal application says the north'e'rt~ timber, bplkhead is approximately 848 linear feet. the ~ouLhern bulkh.e.ad is app[0ximately 159 linear feet. Does ahyone, have ~an issue with the southern bulkhead? k,,lake, a niotion~!:h~ !:hat,so, thorn bulkhead be replaced as roques.ted and'..consi.~,te~.t ~¢iLh [he DEC plan stamped and dated 11.."1C/03. PormiL #1-473¢-.817:8. if I'm reading that correc(ly thaL'the so~ithc'n portion including the portion of t 1,6, [bet to b~ romoved, that in the Patty;'s Pond section !.o be real,iced.as applis¢ ;for. and that the 308 foot section o1' t~ber .bulkliei~d st eking out ~nto the bay ,be shortened by 10 pcrce..nt or gG root. a~d that shortening, s based on evbry[.hit~g tha~ I~ve.h.,eat, d. tonight and everything that's in tho. file..ar;r,d thatl the shd~en~n§ would m:'fa,qt allow for more .saFe 'to .icypass thO"jetty 10 Percen( shortening. TR.US.TE,E. KI.~..~.: Secoi-¢.l. TF~UST, E.E.. Ki~PSKi: Ailiin lavor?. ALL AYES. TR.US%E'.~ PO.E..IWO~)A: Put a stipulation to remove all existing sul~s~d~.~e ~1~ .',,~_:~B~ sedace the remnants of the old. T~L/ ~! JSK,~: i'll add that a remain ng debris should b~e ~'e~d ~ ~.~(~str,uct~ion. MR. I~: 7~ )e~:~irni~ISi~g off there. It's not even m:~ ~eCe.~"~'" '"' '"~"~,~:~l{s ~?" ~" i ~is~dn, he says that in the letter. T~ K~ ~§~: "~es. We'll need a new set of plans shOw~hat. ~] iank you 67 Make a motion to go back to the regular meeting. TRUSTEE KING: Second. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor?. ALL AYES. MOORINGS/DUCK BLINDS: TRUSTEE POLI~/VODA: Susan Johnson we will table until next month. So we can make an inspection of the location. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We were unable to find the location and unable to contact her. TRU, STEE PO~LI.~ODA: Do I have a second? T~RUSTEF-, DilC~ERSoN: Second. -FRUSTE~ POLI~DDA: All in favor?. ALL AYES. 2. MALCOLM H. THOMPSON requests a Mooring Permit in Broadwaters Cove for a 19' boat, replacing Mooring ~2. TRUSTEE ROLIWODA: Looked at this in the file, didn't have a problem with, i[. Make a motion to approve. TRUSTEE DI:CKERSON: Second. TRUSTEE POLIWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES. 3. LEWIS EDSON requests a mooring permit in Corey Creek, repla?ng Mooring #103. Access: Private off of 9326 Main Bayviev~ Roadl ~uthold. Took a ook at th s, d dn't have a problem with this just replacement. Motion to approve. TRUSTEE DICKEP~SON: Second. TRULS-L'TEE PO[_IWODA: All in favor?. ALL AYES. MS. STANDE~H: We have one here. Pass a resolution. TRLrSTEE ~I~G: We looked at this in the field. On PlA We reviewed this and issued a permit and we Ioo~ to reshingle the roof and put ~: didn't have a problem with it, permit. So I guess we pass a ation on the permit for )use and existing -- replace the siding Second. favor?. ALL AYES. KI: For the record, I'm recusing myself. '~at~s it. TRUSTE~_ DIQKERSON: Make a motion to close the regula~ meeting. TRU~TEF_ KING: Second. TRU~STEE D~CKERSON: All in favor?. ALL AYES. RECEIVED APR 2 7 2004