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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-10/03/2002 HEAR SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS TRANSCRIPT OF HEARINGS HELD OCTOBER 3, 2002 ~Prepared by Paula. Quintieri) t)resent ~vere: Chairman Gerard P. Goehringer Member Lydia A. Tortom Member Ruth Oliva Board Secretary Linda Kowalski Absent were: Member George Homing Member Vincent Orlando PUBI~C HEARINGS: 7:01 p.m. Appl. No. 5158 MARTEM MANAGEMENT/A. MARANAIGS CHAI/~vlA_N: We'd hke to welcome everybody here. l'lds happens to be a regularly scheduled Special Meet/ng. The purpose of a Special Meeting is to deal with decisions of the Board fi.om the last prior meeting. However, we have decided to have these three hearings and they are regular hearings, as if we had a regular hearing calendar for the purposes of taking testimony. So that's basically the situation. We will hold 5 I50 in abeyance for a short period of time and go on to 5158 Martem ManagemenL Would you rather us pass that one over too? PATPdCIA MOORE, ESQ.: I thir~k people are here. I don't know if they want to speak, I just want to explain to the people that are here very briefly what we're doing if that's all right with you? CHAII~MAN: Okay. PATRICIA MOOPdS, ESQ.: The original, when the original tennis court was proposed on the other lot BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I can't hear you with your voice like that. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: It was originally proposed on the other piece of property, we submitted the proposal and the Building Department gave us the same Notice of Disapproval that they gave us this time as they gave last time. Last time I looked very carefully at the papers and I specifically identified the fence. This time. when I went after our hearing, it occurred to me I hadn*t seen anything about the fence. So the day after the hearing I looked at my papers and apparently I either, I'm sure it was my fault, the fence was no~ specifically identified and I had the same Notice of Disapproval as before. BOARD SI~CRETARY KOWALSKI: It's not exactly the same; it left offthe fence height. That was the additional relief we're advertising for. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: Yes, I~m saying it was the same as the first application. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Same plan. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: Yes, same plan everything was the same. So what I did was amend the applicafiun to clearly include the fence, winch. I think all of us with common sense understand that a fence goes around a tennis court But iust in case, because of the height of a fence needs to be more than four feet, I included it. And in order to have the whole hearing at one time I asked that it be postponed because it needed to be advertised properly, and the timing of the application would not allow the notice of being in the paper and advertised for today's hearing. So that's the reason that it's been postponed to the next hearing is clearly the timing and the number of days that I need for notice. So I'm sorry that you're here Page 2. OHober 3, 2002 Transcnpt of PubJi¢ Heating Zoning Board ol' AppeaI~ ! and I know that the Board has akeady mentioned it. If you want to be heard, they'll put it on the record, · ,.,,~ otherwise, we'll al2 be here at the next meeting, rhatzk you. CHAIRMAN: Don't leave, Miss Moore because I think we asked you in this application to inquire ro the applicant the possibilJly of pushing the tennis court closer to the house. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: I had mentioned that. he doesn't have a problem but he does want to make sure that there'S adequate access around the property. So he was actually going to be contacting his contractor making sure that the placement of the tennis court wouldn't interfere with the access aroun4 his house. And he's checking, again another issue you raised was the size of the tenms court. He was going to confrnn with the manufacturer to see what is the standard size of the tennis court. Because the size that we gave was, to his knowledge, the standard size; and then.the last issue, which I asked him to please consider, is what type oflandsoaping he would propose. TlieyYe~ avid plant enthusiasts. By the look of their house, you can see that they do do a lot of planting. So t asked him to please take a look at the plan and. give the Board some suggestions on landscaping. Given the fact that we had this postponed, he mad I didn't touch base with each other, we missed each other's phone call. So I expect that within the next couple of days I should get an answer from him MEMBER OLIVA: What was the reason that he couldn't put the tennis court on another lot? I see two other lots there. PATRICIA MOORE. ESQ.: When you put a tennis court on a separate piece of property, you need to come /2 for a 'varmnce because the Board has interpreted that or the Code says that you can't have an accessory use without a principle use. So, we had originaliy, our first choice was To put the tennis court in what is essenlially his ba.:kyard on the other lot. But, we had opposition from a couple of the neighbors in that neighborhood. And the Chairman wisely suggested, well the road was actually his. because it was an -~-'-~ abandoned road, possibly moving the tenths corox on partly that area. As you said. he owns three parcels ( surrounding. So we tried to accommodate alternative locations. He'd certainly go back to is original .... proposal the application is still before the Board, it has not been withdrawn untl2 obviously we knew what the outcome of this hearing would be. But the location is somewhat flexible, so somebo4y has always had some objection as far as preference. That's why we're here CHAIRMAN: So at the extent of this then, what we're going ro do then ~s recess for no more oral testimony at tbns point. PATRICIA MOORE. ESQ.: No~ [ need to subnfit oral testhmony on tlfis. CHAIRMAN: You can't do it in writing? PATRICIA MOORE. ESQ.: Well if you have any comments on the landscaping or the placement, or whatever, I prefer to leave it together to discuss. BOARD SECRETARY K0WALSKI: We were going to do ajoint hearing on both applications at the next meeting. CHAIRMAN: Okay. PATRICIA MOORE. ESQ.: If you have no comments and it's something that we submit and you have no comments. CHAIRMAN: Well you know that. that's usually never the case. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: Yes, that's fight. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. All fight anybody else that would like to speak in favor or against this application? Yes s/r, could you come u!c and use the microphone and state your name please? Page 3, October 3. 2002 Pra~cnpr ox'Public Hearing Zoning Board c~f Appeals RAY BOMBARDIERE: Good evening, my name is Ray Bombardiere. I'm the president of the East Marion Stars Road Beach Association. I'm speaking on behalf of some of the Members of the Association· rm also Mr. Maranakis' next~door neighbor. I am nordi of his two lots· We made a survey, an initial survey, and a pltone survey of some of the Members of the Association and who personally they were against it. I also faxed over yesterday a number of signatures from at least half of the members that were against it. I've been speaking to everyone. I have to say most people are absolutely aga/nst halving it, but they're all very concerned. I'd 1/ke to take a step about-what Miss Moore said about Mr. Maranalds being a plant enthusiast, As a matter of fact, he clear-cut one full acre of land without a perndt I might add. So everybodfs concerned mainly on how he's goring to do this. My mare concern is, and of cmtrse eve~nne else's is, is first of all how is this going To look· We have no idea is there going to be a fence around it, are there go/ag to be trees, or is this goir~g to end up being some monstrosity in fi:om o£h/s hous? and weYe very concerned. I am persrmally concerned about the noise level. What type of material this is going to be built out of. I andersmna some materials are less noisy than others. Can he play at 690 in the morning, can he play all day? Are there going to be lights? All of these things are ~ssues for me. [ don't know anydiing ab'out it. The other, there was one other thing I was thinking, the drainage. Ever since he clear cur these two lots. there's been a lot of standing water in the street and on my property. I'm just wondering now if we add the tennis court there, is that going to be just compounding the problem and make ~r worse. Finally, also I would like tc know if there's going to be trees, is he going to put trees around the tenn/s court, is there going to be any buffer between my property and his? He's definitely going to be iurpacfing my way of life here. the las[ thing I need to know is. is there are any requkemems to how he builds this, who overseas it. If he doesn't abide by them, what recourse do we have as an Association? Thank you very much· CHAIRMAN: S/r? EMA_NLrEL CARAVEL: Emanuel Caravel. I live on Stars Road. My only comment was that only through pure happenstance just pure luck. I happened ro call and find out that the time had been re-scheduled m 6:50: it was originally 7:20. I made several notes, I confirmed it and I was smprised and it was explained and I tklxflc now I understand why, you explained the purpose of this heating is not merely a hearing for this property, so that got clarified. But I presume there will be a new notice on the land to advise the October 17t~, because we will try to get some people out here, some of our neighbors on East Marion. on Stars Road onthe 17~. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Notices will go out by the mromey, and she will also put up a sign at the properly again, but we also ask you ~o please call our office. EMANUAL CARAVEL: No. I think that's a good idea, and that's why we did it and it paid off. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It's also in the newspaper today· EMANUAL CARAVEL: Right. Thanks a lot. CHAIRMAN: We would have actually, if we had seen no one here, we would have just held it off until 7:20. Quite honestly I work in Hauppauge and I really never know what time Pm going to get home anyway. It couldbe a halfbuur later. EMANUAL CARAVEL: Also, how do we address you? Do we address you as Mr. Chamoan, t~ow does CHAIRMAN: Whatever way you like. EMANUA:L CARAVEL: I wasn't sure. IvrEMBER TORTORA: Just send it to the Board of Appeals, and we'll all get it. Page 4, October 3. 2002 Transcript of Pabhc Hearing Zonir~g Board of Appeals EMANLTAL CARAVEL: Okay tha~cs a lot. CHAIRMAN: ls there anybody else that would like ro voice the/r opiuion? Mr. Bombardiere. could I just have two minutes of your time at the mike? Ln the 23 years I've been on this Board, we've granted a lot of tennis courts. The issue of drainage is a very interesting one because it really depends upcm if the court is below grade, on grade or above grade. So at all times, whatever the nmoff is from the eour~ has to be comamed w~thth the corox area. That can be done in two ways That can be done by eill~er putting drainage into the court itself., or draluage around the periphery of the court; so that's one issue that I think we certainly can deal with. This Board has, in the past several years placed in this decision that the Board has the right to review the screening, the drainage and any other factors that the community has interest in, or concerns about. That has worked out very, well because that has allowed us to go out and say, we're'not really sum that this meets the lands~eping plag that you had given us and, therefore, we want entrancemem in this ares, we want de-anlmncemeat in that area and we want more grass here or whatever the case rrdght be around the periphery of the court. So, ~rall intensive pm]poses, we o£course don't have those answers to those questions that you raised but we certainly will follow that, or I will suggest that We follow that procedure at this point. That's all I pretty much can tell you. So we'll wait until counsel comes ba~k with these answers m the questions that you have. And: if you have any further answers, the only thing [ 'can tell you is that we most recently granted one in Southol& in a heavily residential area. And, the court is nor a macadam court It is a. there's a new device that they use instead of clay, it's I hate to get so tripe to this point, but there's less bong to it. So, therefore, there's less noise. It's a composite of that material. It doesn't require a constant rolling that clay requires and so on and so forth. So that's, we'll wait and hear what the story is. In reference ro the time limit of the playing, the Board has the right to deal with a reasonable time and place that restriction on the court. We've done that before also. So I just wanted you to be aware that, this again is not a sarcastic statement, we're not novices in tkis area and so EMANUAL CARAVEL: I'm aware of that. but I am. CHAIRMAN: I understand that, so what I would like you to do is reduce all of your questions to writing, prior to the next hearing, when you speak to all the members and we'll submit a copy of that to counsel and therefore, we'll go down each one pofra for point and any other questions you may have or if you want m include an entire summary of questious. Those are all issues that are concerns to us. I have to tell you that we are meeting bi-weekly on planning and zoning and one of the issues that I will be dealing with is setbacks in reference m ~ennis courts. I honestly, last night, we worked until almost 10:00 and I didn't quite get to that particular issue, but they should be setback from property 1/nes so that there's proper screening around them EMANUAL CARAVEL: Back from the street or from the front of his house? CHAIRMAN: Ali property lines. You know. an adequate amount to allow for proper screening. As I said to you, and I think it was you that I said that in Matfitack that we created a forest. Was it not you that I mentioned that to? EMANUAL CARAVEL: No I wasn't here. It was one of the Secretaries o£~e Association. CHAIRMAN: Then it was he. We created a forest in Mattituck on a five-acre lot. EMANUAL CARAVEL: Well the whole idea isn't, quite personally I'm not totally against it, if he warns to have his tennis court that's fine But I want to impress upon you that everyone is concerned that it be done properly. They just don't want to see something thro~vn up here; you know they might as well pm up a roller coaster. We want to see it done right. [the puts up nice trees. I'm sure everybody will be, almost everyone, would be happy and that's why we're here, just to make sure that if it is done, it's done properly. CHAIRMAN: Very good £MANUAL CAKAVEL: Well thank you very much I appreciate your concerns. Page 5, October 3, 2002 Transcript of Public Hearing Zoning Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else that would 1/ke to speak? Okay hearing no further comment I'll make a motion recessing the hearing until the next regularly scheduled meeting, October 17t~. SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION 7:18 p.m. Appl. No. 5150 T. AND A. LAOUDIS CH_AIRMAN: Okay, we're going back to Laoudis at 5150. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: rha~k you. I have Warren Bohn who is the arcldtect. You lmow through the correspondence that we sent photographs of the statuary to the two objecting neighbors. In my letter m them I asked them t9 please contact me. They never did_ I finally go~ a hold of Mrs. Harrison today, and Mrs. Mondelbanm also today. They s~ill stand opposed to the statuary.. The fence_ they are, I asked them m please l~¢t in writing the fact that they didn't have an objection to the fence and the gate. But I don't know · xthethe~r orno[ they got it at the lime that they forwarded their letters. I don't know that they amended their letter that was already sertt ,JAth respect to the fertce. Mr, Laondis, Mr. Ifmk is also here. the caretaker, has been in touch with the rest of the neighborhood, no one else has any objections Zoning shmdd not be counting the heads to ~y to accommodate everybody's concerns and we've done what we could to show them that it was, thal the statuary_ is certainly not, it's much nicer than.th* drawing from the arch/tect The drawing: of the statuary that we actually have is of the artist's mold. Mr. Bohn do you wan~ ro just finish? Okay go~ahead. WARREb! BOHN. ARCH: Good evening, my name is Warren Bolm, I'm the architeat for the Laondis residence and we're very cooperative, plus this evening is a full scale photograph of the markup for the cast. Th/sis thlI scale from, we're missing the nl~ of the antler to the base is exactly three feet. This is life size in proportion to where it's going to be on the, in proportion to the base, which supports the metal gate. MEMBER TORTORA: Before you go any further, rite total size of the deer WARREN BOHN, ARCH.: Is three feet. MEMBER TORTORA: From the base WARREN BOHN, ARCH: From the base to the np of the antler. We're missing an inch from the tip of the antler in the photograph MEMBER TORTO1LA.: ~ank you. WARREN BOHN. ARCH: I've also brought a rendering shew/rig the gate th relatloash/p to the property and also detaiI of the gate. Unfortunately, it is difficult for you m see it from this distance. (Brought rendering up to dais and verbally explained). MEMBER TORTORA: Is this the total measurement? WARREN BOHN. ARCH.: Sevan feet ll is ro the top of the then there's a pedestal and then there's three feet. So 11 foot 4 inches exactly to the top of the antler. MEMBER TORTORA: And the stonewall here is 5.6 and ~lown here about 4 foot 6. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: Warren I just warn to confirm the drawing you have ss the deer head, the base of the deer head to the antler, you have drawings 3 foot and 5 inches? WARRt~N BOHN, ARCH.: It's 3 feet plus there is a pedestal of limestone, which is another 5 inches. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: Okay. Have you measured the actual statuary?. ~age 6. October 3_ 2002 Transcript of Public Hearing Zoning Board of Appeals WARREN BOHN. ARCH.: This is the 3 foot mark. from here to the tip of the PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: Pnt it this way, we can't cur off the antler if we're off. WARREN BOHN. ARCH.: Not a problem, but we putting the little (up over here, and then there's a base, wkich it sits om There's a reality to the dimension of where the antlers point, you've never seen the dimensions so. CHAIRMAN: Okay. WARREN BOIIN, ARCH.: Butwe will verify when we build the dimensions BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: You have to enter that into the record piease. ~[ need to mark it. Tharflc yom MEMBER TORTOKA: It would make it very easy to visualize it. Is there any way you can reduce that? WAILILEN BOHN, ARCH.: Sure, whatever you feel. MEMBER TORTORA: In other words is there any chance you can just reduce that into hke a 8 ½ x 11, not an 8 ½x ll, an 11 x 147 WARREN BOHN. ARCH Like a more presentable, foldable PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: Do you want us to replace that board with the drawing? MEMBER TORTORA: Just an 11 x 17 drawing that wm~ld be identical to that. WARREN BOHN. ARCH.: With all the dimensions, the heights. Do you have that? PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: What I have is your original, which is not quite right, because the art/st put a little bit of difference in the MEMBER TORTORA: (interrupting) talldng at once,/naudible~ WARREN BOHN. ARCH.: It's all computer, we can get this our to Pat Moore tomorrow morning sometime. M_EMBER TORTORA: BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Leave it in the meandine. WARREN BOHN. ARCH.: We'll leave this and I can also leave you CHAIRMAN: There it is right there WARREN BOHN. ARCH.: You want the dimensions. Any questions? CHAIRMAN: Not right at the moment, we may want to talk to Mr. Laoudis. PATRICIA MOOILE, ESQ. Just one p~mt that I want to raise, in speaking with Mr. Laoudis and the comments by the neighbors, the two neighbors about the interest that this has generated, he is ameanble to making the fence that goes all around the perimeter of the property be six feet in height. We have the front entrance right now, at 5 foot 6 inches. It would be six and we can carry that height around the entire size of the property. That was, most of the concerns raised by Mrs. Harrison and Mrs. Mandelbaum were the fact Page 7_ October 3 2002 Transeripl of PaNic Hemg~g Zoning Board of Appeals f~' that all the architecture, all the activity here was getting a ~eat deal of interest in their community and - .,., there was a lot of activity on their street MEMBERTORTORA: Yonkiadoflostme. You'reproposingtoraisetheheigh.tofthefence. PATRICIA MOORE. ESQ.: We could raise the. the fence itself is easier ro point to it than it is Fnis wall is right now 5 feet 6 inches, and the fence that goes around the perimeter of the property is stone with the additional lattice work, he can increase the height of the stone so that it raises to the six foot mark and that way provide a real screen of privacy. He's willing ro do that if the Board wants that, he could do it. CHAIRMAN: We're still trsring to get over the complaints of the neighbors to be honest with you. PATRICIA MOO1LE, ESQ.: Well there's only two neighbors and thug complaints and it's pffmaari!y the lance. MiEMBER OLIVA: And you said there was no lighting involved? PATRICIA MOORE. ESQ.: No. well there's WARREN BOHN, ARCH.: There's hghting, but not directly on the head, there's entrance lighting but none that shines on the head. MEMBER. OLIVA: Shielded? WARREN BOHN. ARCH.: It's shielded, down hghting on the road; the heads are not lit, displayed. MEMBER TORTORA: I noticed in the letter from Mr. Mendelbaum dated October 3~ that he also believes who would be looking directly at the gates should also be contacted. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: I have contacted all the adjacent property owners. MEMBER TORTORA: On the opposite side of the street? PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: Well then PATRIC1A MOORE, ESQ.: Yes. in fact I just got the green cards. I don't know what particular neighbors he's talldng about. I think, well we have Mr. C and Mr. Lake spoke with me today; he didn't have a problem with anything. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Is this across the street_ over on the side street? Are you talking about KJmberly Lane across the street? MEMBER TORTORA: I'm talking about the property that is on the opposite side of the applicant. C~AN: That's Kimberly Lane. PATRIC1A MOORE, ESQ.: I've noticed everyone that had to be noticed and it's been posted and we've walked around and spoken with the neighbors So he tried to walk around with the petition, and there was no support for it so. CHAIRIVLAN: Do you think we could have a discussion with Mr. Laoudis for a couple of minutes? ,, .... PATRIC1A MOORE, ESQ.: Is he here? Page $, October 3. 2002 Tr~nsofipt of Public Hearing Zoning Board of Appeals C CHAIRMAN: Isn't he, no? PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: I don't think he would be here. He can make himself available, that's fine. He~s out on the weekends. During one of your inspections? CHAIRMAN: I think the whole issue here, Pat, is, is it really necessary to create tiffs type of wall around this property and that's the issue tt tan& The other issue is. the wall could actually be moved a little zloser to the house and there coulc[ be more screening on the road side so that you could still get the full effect of the wall fi.om the owner's perspective, but much less effect of the wall from the neighbors' perspective. So just throw that onl to him and see what he says about that. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ..: Okay. I know that, I mean the wall is a signifi.~cant arch/tectural feature h?re. It's not an insignificant expense or, architecturally it's a very fancy wail, or fancy fence~ It re~ matches the arch/textures olSthe house. I ~ he really wa~ts to have this fence because fue whole design of the entire complex has been done as one in the keeping for the architectural style. CHAIRMAN: We understand that. But, by the nature of PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: Oh yes. there is an existing gate, and there was an ex/sting entranceway. CHAII~vlAN: There isn't anybody that knows the entire piece of property better than I do, prior to it even being sub-divided. In fact, I showed Mr. Laoudis some things in the house that he was unaware of. One thing, in particular and the other thing he showed me that I was unaware of, but I personally think that this enftre situation of dealing w/th the neighbors would possibly be eased/f the wall was pushed back a little farther, if there was additional screemng in front of it and he would then achieve the same thing that he's u2~hig to achieve and that is seeing the wall from his house and seeing how beautiful it would be and nobody would know from anything. Okay. So MEMBER TORTORA: And he'd have a wall that was totally buffered from view CHAIRMAN: Yes, so I'm saying, we're talking a phenomeanl amoum of money here. but there are neighbm-~ that are complaining and so I mean conceivably, throw that out to him and see what he says. PATRICIA MOORE. ESQ.: I will house your request. I know he's here because he really wants what has been submitted. Could he condense, the neighbors objection is not the wall, it's not the gate, apparently from every time I've spoken to them that seems to be what the/r relaying to me: that its mostly the objection to the statuary because it's attention getting. CHAIRMAN: But let me say this to you also. in the place of where this gate ts going, agai~ it can be pulled back into the property a little bit more. there can be more screening agaiust it. PATILiCIA MOORE, ESQ.: We'I1 talk to him about it; we're just going to squish a lot of CHAIRMAN: It can be lowered, it doesn't have to be the height that it's at- and the screemug can be done so we can achieve the same situation, even more of an estate manner without having the nature of this boldness shown from the street. That's just an opimor~ We go to a lot of estates now, because there happen to be a lot of estates on the North Fork PATRtCIA MOORE_ ESQ.: Yes. you go to Paradise Point for example, and you're seeing walls like this every other, almost every house. MEMBER_ TORTOKA: I think the difference here. being married to an artist: it doesn't come out right no matter what I say I know it. I1 seems to me. because there are lots of walls and gates and things on rids property ~mailar to this throughout the Town. I am not going to dispute that I think what I had heard from the neighbors or one of the neighbors, the objection to, is that the house may be out of character with the community. Page 9. October 3, 2002 rrm~scr~pt of Public Heating Zon/ng Board of Appeals · ~.~- PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: I think that house ohginally was out of character. This house is going to be ~ called the Leg Horn. MEMBER TORTORA: I recognize all of that: of course the design of the house is nor something that is really viewable fi.om the road. So perhaps the compromise here is to make it a httle mom in keeping with the character of the neighborhood. And I think you would be adjusting (voice fades ~ CHAIRMAN: I mean it's not a security fence. It's a decorative thing. It's a massive PATRICIA MOORE. ESQ.: In comtfmation it probably MEMBER TORTOP,_A.: It does serve a purpose and for my point, if you're going to put up a fence, and it is a decorative fence, yes, it will be counterproductive m PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: A picket fenee is another MEMBEKTORTORA: Like landscaping. Onthe other hand recognize the character ofthe neighborhood and what the other surrounding houses are and recogrf~ze winch end of the concept is a balance for. PATRICIA MOORE. ESQ.: I understand, I do understand that. however, keep in mind that this house is the original estate parcel. The other homes have been, were bu/lt around tins one and this one is being returned to it's magnificence that it had originally. Whether you like block homes or not. this was a unique home, and at one time, it was the only home on that entire estate_ that entire area. So they've come in after the fact and m say that we're now changing the character of the area, because they've come in rather than preserving the architectural style that was the orighial architectural style of this house, that Roosevelt_ who was the President that was there formerly. Somebody, I don't remember off the top of my head who was the President. MEMBER TORTORA: I'm just saying that the character of the neighborhood has changed since Mr. Hoover's day. CHAIRMAN: And also the fact IvlJEMBER OLIVA: It was the only house on that whole big piece of property. CHAJi*aMAN: That's correct. II was on 24 ½ acres. MEMBER TORTORA: You may want to take that into consideration. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ.: We*ll see what we can come up with. WARREN BOHN, ARCH.: Just a couple of more comments to the Board. We have taken a lot of considerations about the design and sensitivity rs the project so I want you to be very certain that. I understand, as the architect of the property, that this is a very unusual situation in context. If understand that all the new additions on the side were kept very Iow, we kept that to keep it within the old scale of the main house. So, I did, on many occasions keep on moving the gate back. If you note where the gate ~s located it is considerably set back from the street line. The gate. the lance along the front property isn't buffed into the shrubbery and we can build and grow, we have a little bit of that grows more in front of the fence. There's some beantiftd thick shrubbery that would to be pushed and destroyed to bring it right hi that zone which separates the street from the property. ['11 talk to Mr. Laoudis about how we can son of be more sensitive to the gate, but do be aware of that we have, my client has not decided to kind of hear, do what you want him to do. It's a very unusual property. Our concerns about the rrmterials and the scale of the new property and how the new wings fit in_ tmless you do it to a community that was built in the 70's or 80's have bean taken into consideration It will always be an odd situation on that location. Page 10, October 3. 2002 Transcript of l?ublic Hea~/ng Zol~ing Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: Now with the two variances that we've had, I certainly can see what Mr. Laoudis has done re this properW. But the point in question is, just what I said, is it the fact that the fence is needed to continue. ~o complete the composite of the entire piece of property and for him to see that fence from the house? Or is it absnlutely necessary for the neighbors to see the fence fi.om the house? And that's the issue at hand here. Okay. If you can come uto with a rendition from a landscape architect, a really nice shot of what this is going re lo0k like and the neighbors sow it and saw that they're probably not going to see this to a certa/m ~egree. because it has earth roue colors and egenmally it will blend in. This is an issue. It's an educational factor. And Mr. Mendelbaxan, much to my misunderstanding, owns the lot across the sweet also and I was unaware of that. So he really has two says in k. He owns the house next door and the lot across the street. So those are both issues that we're concerned about. PATRICIAMOORE, ESQ.: We have been sensitive to Mr. Mendelbeum'sconcerns~ [ think we put onthe record las~ that he asked if he could plant ~5 fbot arborvitae right on the line, which would actually encroach on the Laoudis property a~c[ Mit. Laoudis said_ of course, go right ahead. You don't have to push h back t]xree feet so that when it grows, it stays on his property. So he's been trying to work with everybody and be seined'hat accommodating. We'll go back and we'll talk with them aborn your comments and see if you can come uIc with somethiug. Could we push this to not the next heating? CHAIRMAN: I can't go PATP, ICIA MOORE. ESQ.: I kno~v_ because I've got too many on that that would be hard. CHAIRMAN: And you promise to be short We'll go with November, the regularly scheduled meeting, PATRtCIAMOORE. ESQ.: Novemb~? CHAIRMAN: 14t~. PATRICIA MOORE. ESQ.: Thank yon. CHAIRMAN: I21 make a motion recessing it to November 17t~, oh 14t~'. SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION 7:39 p.m. Appl. No. 5084 640 CHURCH ST.. LLC CHAIRMAN: Mr. McCarthy. how are you tonight? rOM MCCARTHY: Good evening Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN: Now, even after you look at that plan ladies and gentlemen, if you have qusstions regarding the plan and questions you want to talk to each other about, we are going to go for another 45 minutes and we can recess this for 20 or 25 minutes. Everybody can go out in the hall and talk about it and then you can come back and voice your opinion. That's the nice par~ about a Special Meeting. During that interim we are. of course, going to be doing decisions on other matters. So you are aware of that rOM NiCCARTHY: Mr. Chairman I also have proposed elevations of the building revised, as well as, which I would like to submit m you and anyone else that would like to look. CHAIRMAN: Okay we're ready and please again lad/es and gentlemen in the audience, please feel free to review this to the best of your knowledge and take a little time. There's no push no shove. That's why we have the Special Meeting, it's very nice during this time, and we can recess for 20 minutes I don't mean to be redundant, you can go out and talk about it or we can remove ourselves for 20 minutes and you can talk about it. Whatever you would like. We can go down to the Town Board Room and make decisions; come back here and then we'll reconvene the hearing. We're ready. Page 11, October 3. 2002 I'ransc~ij0t of Public Hearing ZoJx/ng Board of Appeals TOM MCCARTICf: Okay, in summary, the revised site plan takes the building we're asked to reduce the size of the building, wlfich we have done. We have a 4,000 square foot buildimg. Previously we had a 5,000 square foot building. We've rotated the building 90 degrees. Previously it had 100 feet of frontage on the rig~Lt-of-way. We've rotated the bui/ding and made it smaller. We now have 50 feet facing the right- cfi-way. The bu'ddin~ is now 50 x 80 and only 50 feet ~s fa~mg the right-of-way. The overhead doors that will be used for access to the building itself are facing nor towards the right-of-way, the3/re facing south towards Route 48. If you take a look, additionally were added a row of arborvitaes, five to slx feet high along the rigllt-of-way, in addition to a chain link fence six foot rail with privacy slats, to ny to buffer our netghbors to the best of our abiJiIy. I believe previously we had two openings for fagmss and egress omo the right-of-way; presently we have one. We've significantly red~ced many tlfings here. We have also proposed to surround the remaimng property lines with chain line fence with privacy slats around the rest of the per/meter, ffI can draw your attention to the building elevations, we have tried with the architec~ to give the building, it will be ~ steel skianeg lmilding, but we've Iriad to give it a httle bit of hel~ with some architecture, we've added windows, they're called clear story windows up maybe about nine feet approximately nLue or ten feet from the ground to lry to give it a little more visual interest and reduce some of the impact of just a strai_~ht steel skin of wall. There are on the binlding, there are overhangs on the building and there are also some decorat/ve gable end vents. We have prohded for landscaping up against the building, to the best of our building adjacent 1o the north, Fm sorry adjocant to the south and to the east and they're will be planting that's directly up against the building and unforamately the elevation drawfag that yon have in front of just shows some very low hedges but will also have some other trees that '&'ill in fact grow Ul: over the coarse in time, will increase in height. We have provided, for the Board's use_ a layout of the floor plan here and its just, the Members of the Board had asked why do we need the space that we need: and this is a simple layom that shows the office, handicapped accessible toilet closet to a storage room: the shop for working on equipment and in front of the staging area_ the bins where Mr. Chituk will keep his supplies and parts and pieces, his plumbing fittings, and so on and so forth. He has an area where he stores, that will be designated to store fl~e pool kits. He also stores his customer's pool covers and there's a small room for. separated from the rest of the interior space of the building for the small amount of chemicals that he has. MEMBER TORTO1LA: What's the staging area? TOM MCCARTHY: It's just where he can bring the trucks in and load up out of the weather for the supplies that he may need or park the vehicle inside ovemighi. MEMBER OL1VA: How many trucks will he need? TOM MCCARTHY: Howmany tracks? MEMBER OLIVA; Yes. TOM MCCARTHY: Five. MEMBER OLIVA: Five? And how do you propose to get them in and out of the fight-of-way that's just dirt, primarily, and very narrow?. TOM MCCARTHY: Mrs. Oliva. we have previously offered to improve the right-of-way to satisfaction of the neighbors whatever that may be. Whether that be blue stone, and we've previously gone on the record m make that offer and we've actually submitted that in writing to the Board, as well, as part of the public record. Whether that be blue stone. I believe that some folks were against the use of asphalt, in previous conversations, because they feel that it might increase the speed of vehicles down the right-of-way. CHAIRMAN: You could put speed bumps in the road. TOM MCCARTI-PF: We could do that as well. MEMBER OL1WA: Have you had any conversation with the DPW as far as your curb cut? Page 12, Octot~er 3. 2002 Transcript of Pt~blic Hearing Zoning Board of Appeals TOM MCCARTHY: No we have not. MEMBER OLIVA: [would just like to, as a Member of the South Transportation Committee, I have some information here about the number of cars going from the east and west entering the landfill. It has been donated, or designated by the Police Depanmant and the DPW as a real I/or spot because of some very sehous accidents at that landfill site. And there is a move a foot only ingress into the landfill. I know egress that would be done some way to Cox's Lane_ perhaps with a light. So I don't know ff the DPW wonld,be very happy or I would be very happy or the .community would be very happy Of having tracks going in and out it that spo~ wi/en there's such a l/mit to sight or bi/nd sight~ I would h2ce to just enter that into the record. TOM MCCARTHY: As I bekieve Mr. Ckituk has previously stated, the vehicles leave in the morning. Thefre out On the road doing their service work and avending to other peoples homes and pools and they ma~y stop back if they're short of a supply, they may st(~p back during the day and thee they'd be back in the evening. It's not a delivery servtce, where they're coming m and out all dhy long. MEMBER OLIVA: Another question is I still do nor understand why you need a 4..000 square foot building, when other pool companies have _anywhere from as small as 500 square feet to other ones on the south shore that have a bigger operation than Mr. Chimk proposes at only 2,000 square feet. TOM MCCARTHY: I don't know which ones you are speaking of. Pd be happy to investigate them. but this is what Mr. Chituk's needs are and he has scaled it down from 5,000 to 4.000 square feet. CHAIRMAN: Any other question Lydia? MEMBER TORTOKA: The slatted lines in the floor plan, what does that signify? TOM MCCARTHY: Shelving. CH~: I don't have any questions at this time, Mr. McCarthy, let's continue witi/the hearing and again, [ didn't necessarily ask anybody's permission but if need be. and the community wants to digest this plum as I said we can recess for a short period of time and then come back again. So we'll see what they're likings are at that point. We'll let the attorney speak fncst. REGINA STELZER_ ESQ.: I dofft think we need a recess. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Could you just puli the microphone down a little bit so we can hear. REGINA STELZER. ESQ.: How is that, can you hear me? CHAIRMAN: That's good. REGINA STELZER~ ESQ.: I try standing on tippey toes if it will help. Good evening. I am going to be very brief and I just want because I did send a letter, which I believe all of you have received. I believe you received the letter and I hope that you have had a chance to review the letter perhaps with your attorney. My point, and I've explained this to the community, is that it really makes no difference what size this building is and it doesn't matter whether it has ~Sndows or if it doesn't have windows. The real problem, and I believe you really focus on it. is that we are talking about a residential area and what we've got here is a structure that is going to be and would be perfectly reasonable in an industrial area that has the type of roads to accommodate it. One of the reasons both the Village. the Town and the State of New York have passed the law saying that industrial buildings have to be o~ a road. on a dedicated road, is because they didn't want to create the kind of potential problem that you would go so wide and be able to see. That is why they have asked for a road becanse the dedicated road usually has all these things that you are talldng about. Has already had considerations about traffic, light and things of this sort. It is almost criminal to Page I3, October 3. 2002 Transcript of Public Heating Zoning Bomrl o£ Appeals suggest that you could put an thdustrial building on a right-of-way, whether you pave it or you don't pave it. it is still a right-of-way. It is not a road, and so legally, you cannot grant this application. CHAIRMAN: I really wish that you would have a discourse with counsel. I really think yon need to make an appoint with out counsel, wh/ch is our Town Attorney. And I have to tell yon, that we have been granting, I don't care what it is, I don't care if ifs gree~ yellow, blne, char[reuse or whatever, we have been granting buildings on rights-of-way since the beginning of Section 280A. REGINA STELZER, ESQ.: Industrial buildings? CHAIRMAN: Everything, everything has been granted on them. This is a small town. Mrs. Stelzer: we've had potato houses since the beg/nning of time, since the first potato that was grown on this site. I do understand exactly what you're saying. We are taking everypossible concern that this community has, as I told you in the first hearing; yon were not here, I said if this gerntleman builds a building it w/il be a model building. I made that stammant. But I have to tell you that I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I do disagree with the philosophy of that particular issue of the New York Town Law 280A. I understand that it's not part of the sub-division plan. I understand that it's not part of a plot, I understand all of those things, bnt we have a 28;-foot right-of~way here; which, in effect, could be improved 28 feet. We never want to see that happen, okay. It cart be improved/n , there can be drainage put in, there can be speed bumps put in. All those precmations and all those concerns, do we wanz m see that happen, I don't know. It's really up to the Board to make the determinauon and rite community with the/r impute and we take those two things and we bring them together. But remember what I said, at the last hearing, that we didn't create the Zoning, the Zoning is in place. REGINA STELZER, ESQ.: And the Zoning is indeed in place, and we are not objecting to, I am certainly not objecting to the Zoning. I think the Town tried to do what they thought was best because of the landfill and I can understand it fi.om their point of view. But what I am saying ~s that this is a Zoning Board of Appeals and rite reason you are here is to provide an applicant, a landowner with an opporttmity to do somettfing that he legally cannot do, okay. You give variances that mean you're giving them a chance to do something that, by law, they can't do Well, when you do that there has to be a good reason for you m give somebody the opportunity to binld a house two feet instead of twenty feet, or whatever the side yard variance. And I know that alt of you are very concerned and very, very knowledgeable about this community and when you make a decision on a variance. I em sure that you think a lot about it and that you know that when yon'm giving that person that variance it's because it makes sense. It may not be the law. but it makes sense. But in this case, not only is it not the law. but it doesn't make sense. It is totally indicrous to have to tell these people who are living there and have been living there, that you're going m give somebody an opportunity to do something that is against the law. CHAIRIvL~',T: That's your opinion REGINA STELZER. ESQ.: Oh no, the state law is very clear. CHAIRMAN': Ma~am the minute we grant a 280A, rite legal access is done. REGINA STELZER, ESQ.: I don't want m argue with you about this because it really is not something I feel I should be doing at this point. I think all of you are very sensitive to this whole situation. If Pm rmssmg the point, because my fellow colleagues tell me I'm trussing the point. I am telling you that if we grant access to something, over a 280A standard, and we use ali of the knowledge and availability that we have at our resources such as the resource of the Town Engineer, the resource of the Highway Superintendent; the resource of Suffolk County Department of Public Works who basically have jurisdiction over County Road 48, and who I work with on a dally basis in Hauppauge. Then we have used every resource that we have ar our fingertips ~o create a specific standard, wtfich and then granting that standard then become law. Now- you are saying that is what I am doing, I am incorrect in doing this and you are saying that I am doing something illegal. REGINA STELZER; ESQ.: No~ what I'm saying to you is that there is a law in effect, and that if the Zoning Board of Appeals you have a fight to g~ve a variance and to essentially say to that person, you don't Page 14. October3 2002 Transcript of Public HemSr~g Zotling Board of Appeals have to abide by this law. We're going m give you the opportunity to do someththg, to build a berm for ..... ' ex~raple, so that you don't have to apply with the law. But what I am saying is that in th/s specific case, there is no common sense reason ro grant a variance because the law in this particular case, makes sense and its import'ant because you have an obhgatinn to protect all of the people, not only the applinant before you but the people who are in the community, You have an obliga~ou and I know yon all kaow that so I don't know why I am telling you this. CHAIRMAN: Because I am concerned about when you use that word. the words that you were using because I certainly I don't chose to do anything that is out of sort. REGINA STELZER, ESQ.: And you are not doing anything out of sort. £ MEMBER TORTORA: I belSeve counsel was saying is when counsel refers to the law, counsel is referring to the Zooming Law of the Town of Southold. Is that correct?. REGINA STELZER. ESQ.: And to the State Law. of the State of New York. MEMBER TORTORA: That's just your position between the two REGINA STELZER, ESQ: There's no conflict between the two. MEMBER TOKTORA: I said thafs just a position between rite two. In other words, tl~s is what I'm hearing, lite variance request is prov/ded for under 267B of New York State Town Law, not the actual variance request. That engages a balancing test with five factors under the State statute. The Town Code has zoning law which then must be at 25 feet from the property line and so on and so forth. The request is ~o vary the zoning law. that's whal she's saying. J'en~. t/ CHAIILMAN: Is tlmt the way we should be taking it. MS. SELZER.' You should be tak/ng it any way you want to as long as you deny it, is my feeling, because on whatever basis you deny it. That's fine. You're the ones that make that determination. What I'm saying to you is this is not the kind of application that reqmres any kind of a variance or requires consideration because you have to look at the bigger picture and the bigger picture in this case, that you have a community that is not going m be able to. and it's not ins the immediate community, it's what you said. It's the people who are traveling to and from; it is just a bad idea. Somebody snggested the last time that if you build something like an office building or something that would be more in keeping with the residential aspect of this commumty, even though it's zoned industrial, we know what it's use is. And I tNmk that would be helpful. So it's not as though you are preventing him from dong it or from doing anything. He can really build someth/ng else there and of course, he can always sell the property because he hasn't done anything as yet to really; I mean he's got no real stake in it at this point. And the people who have lived there for a long time certainly do. If you have any other questions. I'll stay. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is there anybody else that would like to speak? I saw some hands before. Sir? Kindly state your name for the record? ROBERT FAGER: My name is Robert Fager and I live in Cutchogue. ~ heard this Board do a very commendable job discussing the variance applied fur by the Laoudis relative to a fence. And I just k/nd of thought this is kind of an interesting parallel that this issue about a fence that's come up over and over again because some neighbors are going to have to look at a fence with earth tones and that's going to fade into the distance and fade into their view over a very short period of time I have a sense that a 4,000 square foot building in my back yard is never going to fade into the picture of the way my back yard is. And the feeling ff somebody tried to build a 4.000 square pool building in my backyard, it probably wouldn't happen. So I would encourage you to treat this variance with the same enthusiasm that you are treating the Laoudis application. And I just have one other question, and that would go to the gentleman who spoke before. What does a small amount of pool chemicals constitute? Page 15. October 3, 2002 transcript of Public Hearing Zoning Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: We're gomg to ask that question. ROBERT FAGER: Chlorine and water. My pool guy tells me not to keep mn pounds of chlorine in my potfmg ;hed, so I would be concerned about that in the proximity of what really is a residential neighborhood, thank you. CHAIRMAN: Mike, how are you tonight? Would you just state your name for the record? MIKE DOMINO: Mike Dorninio. resident of Southold. I have the copy of the Cutchogue Industrial Area Planning Study requested by the Town Board and done by Nelson. Pope Voorhis, etc. I find this very interesting reading. But I have a question for you mad it states on page 7, that LIO Zo~zing areas requires 120.000 square foot minimum lm to build. CHAIKMAN: That's for new construction. MIKE DOMINO: New construct/on. CHAIPdS&AN: Meaning new creations of sub-divisions. This is a pre-existing one. MIKE DOMINO: It's not in the LIO district. CHAIRMAN: But I'm just making a sratemem. Anything that we're doing is, would be to a specific standard of today, regardless of what district we were MIKE DOMINO: And LO is 40,000? CHAIP, A lAN: Correct. MIKE DOivlINO: All right. On this report, according ro this report, every- move to take this property and make it industrial violates the 1985 Master Plan: it violates the 1999 County Road 48 land use; it violates traffic safeV studies and I'm not going to mad it to you, it's available bat the summary of tiffs recommends that the entire area go back to residential. Also the Anti-Bias Task Force has reconmaanded that the Town Board consider a compromise, an RO compromise. My feeling is that both of those uses, Residential and RO are more appropriate for tiffs particular property. I strongly urge you because of safety factors, the vision ~tated by the master plan, etc. that you nor grant the variance to put a building of tiffs size in what is essentially a residential community. One last thing, this area is designated as a Ground Water Management Zone 6. by the Suffolk County Health Department, and according to tiffs, you have to take into consideration the type of property use. the zoning flow factors, the square area of the building, before you can grant a building of that size on a sub-standard lot such as this. I know that you are aware of that, but I just wanted to mention that factor too. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Anybody else, ma'am? Would you come up and use the microphone please? Would you stare your name for the record? THERESA TAYLOR: My name is Theresa Taylor I live in Cutchogue. I think Mr. Domino made a very compelling case for adhering tothe letter of the law; and he talked about the square footage and all of the things that go into making decisions in this regard. But I think the human factor is also very important. The law is created with the health and welfare of the human beings who cream it, and I think that the human factor needs to be considered here. I would not want a chain link fence with green plastic slats as something that I would look oar my window and see as my next-door neighbor. I wouldfft want a 28-foot right-of-way w/th speed bumps and crushed gravel or whatever they decide to do, so that we could accommodate heavy eqmpmear. [ live next to a little sor~ of dirt driveway, wiffch is actually a Town Road. I would not like to see that made into a 28-foot paved road. I think the human factor is very important. I think the Board needs to consider that you're dealing with human beings who have been living there a long time, who don't need to see a 4,000 square foot warehouse or 2,000 square foot warehouse. They don~t need to see a warehouse. They've been looking ar a dump for a long time, and now that the dump is gone Page 16, October 3. 2002 Transcript of Public HemSng Zotxing Bom'd of Appeals r and the property is worth something more, perhaps Mr. McCarthy can arrange to do some kind of real .... estate transaction that will still be able to make a profit for them but will provide them w/th a view that is much less offensive to people who want to live a good human life. CHAIRMAN: Anybody else like to speak'? Ma'am, intheback. MERLE LEVINE: [ thank you for having the patience to listen to me because yon know exactly where I'm coming fi.om on this. BOARD SECRETARYKOWALSKI: [ need your name please. MERI~ LEVrNE: Merle Levine in East Marion. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: l'hank you. MERLE LEVINE: When I heard about the fence and the deer and the antlers last time. I had that same reactlon~ When I read in the Suffolk Times that there was concern about a large house being built in a white commumty and these people objecting, k seemed ro me that the irony of being a small enclave historically living in a place because they started out there because they had no other place; living in a place that became a dump. after they lived there; ignoring the fact that they were living there; the change in the zoning, ignoring the fact that people hve in there. That whatever the advantages of putting a pool shed in the midst of that commtmiry lies in the face of whatever our sense of community is and our obligation to people who have been so badly tremed for so many years to perpetuate that kind of Ireatmant seems to me to be something that we would not want to be a part of. It doesn't do honor to us as Town, and it doesn't do honor to them as a people. VALERIE SHELBY: I'm Valerie Shelby fxom Greenport. I just want to ask the Board a question. I've never been before a Zoning Board of Appeals before. But I heard yon mention that you granted other variances for bigger buildings. CHAIRMAN: No. I said we granted variances for all kinds of buildings. VALERIE SHELBY: Big buildings. CHAIRMAN: No. not big, I mean buildings of tiffs magnitude. VALERIE SHELBY: But not this big? MEMBER TORTORA: Not in this case, not as long as I've been on the Board and thafs been since 1995. Not in an area that is on a street that is predominantly developed as residential We've granted variances hke the Riverhead Building Supply site up in Greeupor[. But that's commercially zoned; or Corrazini, there are no residences: Penny Lumber. there are no residences on that. This is different, every application is different. VALER~E SHELBY: Well I have two questions that I will try to put before you. One :luestion is if you grant the different variances and they're commercial and you're going to grant something residential with chemicals, isn't that a little silly? CHAIRMAN: Well, it's a Light Industrial Zoned district. VALERIE SHELBY: But with chemicals. CHAIRMAN: We understand that. But Page 17, October 3, 2002 transcript oft'ublic Plemxng Zoni~ag Board of Appeals VALERiE SIq~LBY: What's in place for spillage and things like that? CHAIRMAN: We would have to deal with that aspect. VALERIE SHELBY: And another question, you said you did it for potatoes. Potatoes can't hur~ anybody. CHAIRMAN: I just used that as an example ma'am Yes, ma'am. I just want to make one statement regarding that ma'am. That in the years that the farmers farmed with pesticide, there were far more chemicals in the barns in this Town with pesticides than there would be linaudible in the audience) CILklRMAN: We understand that, and we didn't create that situation. Those were on residential property. MRS. : But you had an opportunity m avoid in CILAIRMAN: You must understand one thing, that we are collecting data here for the sole purpose of making a decisioN, so we are not slafmg the data one way or another. We are stating right down the middle. So please be aware ofthat situation. Pardon me ma'am, Iapologize. SIDNEY ABBOTT: Sidney Abbott. Southold. I would just like to tell a quick anecdote that might make some of this more real to people. I'm getting some little baby horses from horse rescue and I had to buy a pick-up track. So I looked around and I found one. and [t didn't work. I found another one it didn't work. Because I just wanted ro pay $1,000. So I drove over. I saw something in the newspapun I drove over to the South Fork and I'looked at th/s pick-up truck that was owned by a pool company and the pick-up track was driven for about three or four years to put chemicals in peoples swimming pools I don't think rye ever gone in a swimming pool again, if you want to knorr the trath. Because I looked at the pink-up track from the front, I droI~ it arormd, [t looked preay good and then I parked it in such a way that I walked away from it and I looked at the back of the pick-up truck. There was only half a back df the pick-up track. The metal was eaten through from three or four years by these chemicals. I don't think a concrete slab, by the way I'm lrained as an Urban Planner on the Land Use Plan, I don't think that a concrete slab, I don't think anything makes it worthwhile. The original 5.000 square feet I bel/eve this Board has estabhshed is the size of a regional warehouse. It's now for Soathold swimming pools, it's for the whole East End, I can just hardly speak. I think it's just about one of the most strange things I've ever heard. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Yes ma'am VIOLACROSS: PmViola Cross. CHAIRMAN: You're getting a lot of press over this Mrs. Cross, we know you real well. That's not a sarcastic sraremant. We appreciate your coming. VIOLA CROSS: Well I'm one of the residents of that area. I know what they're saying is tree. I have lived there now almost 20 years and put a lot into that house. It might not be a palace, but it's home. When I have been very angry about the whole thing and I'm standing here now and I'm not supposed to be, the doctor don't want me here; but everybody is saying everything and if I had those 600 petitions that were signed. It's just not 600 people that live behind the church. [ voted because I am retired, I'm disabled and I can get up in the morning and see the birds, hear the birds singing: see the squirrels jumping from trees. It's a relaxing thing. Can you imagine not having, just having trucks rolling through there. I'm sitting on the porch and I have allergies? I bought it so I could relax in my old age. No. I'm not thinking of ever of selling or even moving, but I think that being a person of color and could not in the 60's, years, could not buy anywhere else but that one spot, the landfill that they call it now, the damp. It was, nobody was buying Back there because of the dump, but now t/mt we have street water and the landfill is being capped over. it's going to be beautiful, everybody wants in. Why should we move? Why can't we have some of the luxmies that other residants in Southold Town are having? It's just mind boggling, as you've seen in the papers I have said, and my doctor didn't want me m come. My family didn't want me to come. but I came because I Page 18, October 3, 2002 Transcript of PubI/c Heating Zoning Board of Appeals live there and the people that are standing behind me. I want to thank them for, regardless of what happens, I'm not moving. CHAIP, xYLA2q: Thank you Mrs. Cross. Just stare your name for the record sir? ]'OHN ROGERS: My name is Jolm Rogers. resident of East Marion. This issue has created u Iot of emotion in this communiry. And aside from the realities of the rules and regulations, I think a lot of heartache on the part of you people in the past is really required, to bring eqmry into this situation CHAIRMAN: Good evening how are yon sir? LUCIUS WARE: Good everdng, my name is Lucius Ware, president of the Easteru Long Island NAAC which includes both the Nm'th and the Sontlt Forks. In my estimation if is, ur~bel/~vable that tldngs have gone on as long as they have. The situation of that physical piece of property has for many years been a site of institutional racism and continues to be, as time goes on, now environmental racism. This is something that should not continue and with all due respect, certainty appreciate the,p~ence'and time and study that the various Boards are putting into th/s. I halspened to be kolding a memo from the Town's Senior Environmental Planner who has serious ¢once'ms about this particular pro~ec~ and has asked the varions bodies to be cognizant of the/r exu:eme ~:oncerns and the questions that they have which rrmny of them have been broached tonigkt. So, at this time, I certair~ly wnr4d fervently request tha~ th{~.~p~licahon and ali a~oplicatiogs regarding a pool storage and work fac/lity there be de, lied. ~Jaank yom Gan we have this particular letter be a par~ of the record, if ll~s not already ~cluded in the reenrd? CHAIRMAN: I don't know what it is. bun we'll take it. LUCIUS WARE: It is from Scott Hughes, Senior Envirormaental Planner for the Town of the Southold. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I just want to tell yon that I dort't flxix~ you were at the first meeting we had, but after the first meeting I had spoken to several parishioners of the church and they had indicated to me_ and 1 just want to bring that issue up again, that even thought he church is planmng to build a new church some m/les some down the road west. the eiders of the church have no intentions of vacating this institution. ] fred that very, very interesting in the whole aspect of what we're dealing with here. And cermiuiy be an issue that I w/Il be wrestling with throughout the deliberations that we do for this. LUCIUS WARE: Yes, I am very well aware of that and glad that you are taking that into consideration. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: We do have the original on this: I don't want to take your last copy. Did you want this back? LUCiUS WARE: I'll take it back. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKh Thartk you very much, we have the original. CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else that would like to speak? Yes ma'am? Could you store your name fm the record? CAROLYN PEABODY: My name is Carolyn Peabody and I live in Orient Point. I'm also serve on the Anti-Bias Task Force ~ Southold and also I'm one of the Commissioners of Suffolk County Human Rights Commission. I'm also a professor at Stonybrook's School of Social Welfare. My area of specialty is and civil rights. And I have to say that having moved to Southold the last six years, I've really come to love it here and really love the people. But when this whole event began to unfold, and I began to nuderstand it a little bit about the history of how people of color have been treated by the Town of Southold I am just startled, because it seems incongruous with the way I have come ro see people of Southold. I had a very warm feel/rig about the people of Sounhold So I think, one of the things that strike me is that there's a history that Mede Levine referred to and that Lucius Ware just referred to is a history that really represents a systematic disregard of human beings. As I teach, I teach about how it happens, not just in one Page 19. October 3. 2002 Transcript of Public Hearing Zo~fing Board of Appeals area, not just in terms of housing or m terms of the environment it's really systematic. So when we're talking about what*s happened to this community here on 48. we're also not dealing with the fact that they've also experienced the same ldnd of treatment in lots and lots of dffi'erent ways in terms of the way the]/'re treated when they go to stores, the way in wkich people emplgyment oppor0.m/ties have been impacted and constrained. They live tl~ft opportunities constrained. And I can provide you with enormous amount of data ro document real estate discrimination, all kinds of discrimination that has happened and happened right here. So I thhik what I want to say. is that I believe that the Towa of Southold has a duty, as we all do. to insure that al[people that live in this Town are treated with eqmil respect and that we don't continue to disrespect and disregard human lives m a way that I ttfink, un[ommately, our ancestors and even our near relatives have So I would reall~f urge you to take that into consideration that I really don't want to be part ora Town and I don'~t want us to be a part of the history that/s sr~ u~abel/evably repressible of human life. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else that would like to speak'? Mr. McCarthy? ]?OM MCCARTHY: I just took a few notes while the previous speakers were speaking. I just wanted to perhaps offer two comments on some of them. Miss Seltzer I guess in her summary said really it's not the size of the building that matters. The Town was correct in the zoning of Light Industrhd. I understand all of theft concerns. Apparently. Miss Seltzer concern right now is access, end I don't know if there are arty other properues in th~s particuler neighborhood that will come up for other applications by other people who nmy chose to develop it in a Liglit Industrial fashion or a Residential fashion, but perhaps they'll be upon this Board, perhaps they wofft be upon this Board. l'his property liselfis unique because of its access by right-of-way and the other properties that are in the neighborhood may be similarly developed at some point in time. I dofft know if the other owners all have access on either Route 48 or Tuthill Road. Yes on ]?ulhi]l Road; is not Tuthill Road the official name of the street, paper street because it was the >ld access to the dumps? rsomeone speaking voice inaudible) rOM MCCARTHY: Yes, Tuttfill Road is the next one to the west. Which is all similarly zoned Light industr/al. So all the properties there, I believe. I know. are zoned the same So this application is unique in the fact tha~ it's on a right-of-way and Miss Seltzer is saying that she does not necessarily, she said the issue wasfft the size of the building and the Town was correct in the zoning of Light Industrial because of it's proximity to the landtill There% been a lot of things that have been going on in the paper that I haven't really commemed on. ][ haven't written any letters to the paper, m the editor or offered any other public information out there, but I did go into the Town Clerk's office and saw a copy of a request for access to the records from Miss Cross and research in history of the zoning of this particular area. And I have ro get a copy of the same piece of information. And Miss Cross is quite correct in the fact that her property had been zoned residential prior to. The subject property of this application does not change in its zoning classification back/n 1989 according to the master plan update. Our property has at least since 1971 been zoned Light Industrial and the approximate d/viding line of that was near the right-of-way in question And I have some records from the Town Clerk's office that shows this I believe, Miss Cross was given this as well. So her property was the subject in the change in zone, ours was not. Ours had been Industrial at least until 1971. at least from 1971 and I would like to offer that as public record. In speaking to Mr. Domino's commems on his first impressmn that this property is Light Industrial Office, requiring 120.000 for clarification, it's LJ.ght Industrial requmng 40.00( square feet minimal lot size for the creation of the new lot unless you have one. as we do, that already has legal status. Theft effer in compromise of perhaps going to an RO Zone. which they feel may be more appropriate to the area, which I've seen_ I believe Merle Levine end Mr. Domino had that comment both at the Public Hearing and the newspaper. The KO zone has the same minimal lot size as the Light Industr/al zone. also has a mhiimal lot size of 40,000 square feet. So, perhaps other variances would be necessary to nuprove this property in fashion of RO, just as is necessary for the L/ght Industrial. These corrective guess are management zone 6 in the Suffolk County Health Depamuem and a Residential Office type zoning, if it were to be used for an office or professional would in fact, according to the Suffolk County Health Deparunent requirements use more water and have more septic than the sanitary system in this particular according to theft regulations. l>age 20. Octob~ 3.2002 Trm~scnpt o£Pablic HeazSng Zordag Board or- Appeals CHAIRMAN: Could we have another copy of that sometime? MEMBER TORTORA: This is very hard to read. TOM MCCARTHY: That's exact/y as 1 got it from the Town Clerk and actually that's going ro go back into the record and Fulledout the actual copy of the map and that was a photocopy directly from the Zoning Map. Those are the clarifications that I would make at th/s time. CHAIRM~: Thank you. MEMBER TORTORA: What is the height of the Imilding? TOM MCCARTHY: The height is 18 feet eave and has a four pitch on it, sozz of in the center of the building. It would be approximately 24 feet I believe. MEMBER TORTORA: 24 feet? TOM MCCARTHY: It's 18 feet at the gutter line. MEMBER TORTORA: To the ridge? TOM MCCARTHY: I¢'s 18 feet at the gutter and then it has a four pitch. MEMBER TORTORA: Is that ro grade? TOM MCCARTHY: That's correct. 35 feet is your maximum height in a Light Industrial district. MEMBER TORTORA: (inaudible} TOM MCCARTI:I~: The accessory bulldin~ wSll be 18. MEMBER TORTORA: Okay. TOM MCCARTHY: Approximately half the size of what's allowable by Code. MEMBER TORTORA: Okay. There was another question I forgot it. Oh. I Imow what the question was, Mr. Chituk does not own the land, you haven't purchased it. and you're just a contract vendee at this point? TOM MCCARTHY: Correct MEMBER TORTORA: Suppose the Board grants the variance for the building. It's possible the building could be used for other things? TOM MCCARTHY: Is it possible that it could be used for other things? It is no one's intention here to have it used for other things. Mr. Chituk is bom and raised in this community, as I am, and he is been fortunate that he has worked hard and he has established his own pool company and he needs a place to operate. He is a youn8 man. and I believe he intends on being la business for quite a while and framing this business. That's the o~ly intention that's ever been stated to me, and I know nothing else. The fact of the matter is there is very 1/ttle Light Industrial land ~ the Town of Southuld. The Town of Southold. when they purchased the property adjo/ning the dump m the west. I believe it was, an applied parcel for 1- acres it exacerbated that fact by the fact that they took 17 acres of inventory for Light Industrial property off of all that is available to persons who were looking to buy or sub-divide or have a place for the businesses and the Town has not replaced that 17 acres and of course, pars greta pressures on the other parcels of land. Page21. October 3. 2002 Transcript of Public Hearh~8 Zo~/ng Board of Appeals MEMBER TORTORA: Thank you. Could I ask Mr. Chituk a question please? Something that has been troubling me for quite some time and I am going ro resolve it. It is a large building and I want ro know if you have thought about leasing our space in that building? GENE CHIT1JK: Absolutely not. MEMBER TORTORA: I want to know if you would agree to a covenant and restriction that would ran with the land? GENE CHITUK: Absolutely. It's too small for me now. 20% smaller than I thought I wanted, but. MEMBER TORTOR~: That's all I have now. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mrs. Steltzer? REGINA STELTZER, ]ESQ.: In answer m your question, there's absolutely no way he could give you, legally, a guarantee that that property is not going to be used for anything else. When you get a covenant fl will simply say that the land is going to be used for Industrial. %~ne ~se of it, but they put a different kind of factory where they start making dog food, or whatever they do in it, is not something that he can guarantee. So even though lis intentions may be very good, the reality of it is that you have no guarantee that a year after he purchases and sells it to somebody else that they don't use it for a :tifferent kind of use, which is legally permitted withli that Industrial Zone. Ancl there's qinte a big list of things that you can use. IviEMBER TORTORA: Plus there's no way that the Board, you're saying that you don't believe the Board could put any kind of. REGINA STELTZER~ ESQ.: It's different when you have a house and you tell somebody you're going to covenant that you're not going to develop it further, see that's different. Then you can get that, because that's a covenant that runs with the land. But this is a use of a piece of property and the use is within the zomng and there's nothing, I mean, even though he has good intentions I don't question his intentions. MEMBER TORTORA: In other words if say for instance, if he went ahead and purchased, everything was granted and he purchased the property wenr ahead and built his pool warehouse and than for some unforeseen reason, some kind of catastrophe he had and he had to sell it or whatever, that wouhl be the end of that and it could be any Industrial Use in the districff REGINA STELTZER. ESQ.: Right. MEMBER TORTORA: Okay, that's what I wanted to know. What was your opinion. I don't know. I will check with legal counsel. There's one other thing t did want to ask yon. You adhered earlier on in the conversation that Industrial Buildings have to be on a dedicated road. REGINA STELTZER, ESQ.: Correct. MEMBER TORTORA: I'm familiar with the 280A. REGINA STELTZER, ESQ.: That's your own Code. CHAIRMAN: No that's New York State Code. REGINA STELTZER, ESQ.: Oh, it's New York State_ okay. MthM[BER TORTORA: I'm familiar with visions of 280A, but I would agree with the Chairman. I would really, really like you to talk to the Town Attorney about this, aboul your concerns. REGINA STELTZER, ESQ.: Fine, I will be glad to. Page 22. October 3. 2002 Transcript of Public Heat/nfl Zoning Boar& of Appeals MEMBER TORTOP, nk: Either Greg Yakaboski. or Kathleen Murray. REGINA STELTZER, ESQ.: It's a long trip, but I'm always delighted to come. CHAIRMAN: [ thimk you could do it on rite telephone. REGINA STELTZER, ESQ.: No I think it would be better if we spoke in person and we could look at the law and discuss it, okay. MEMBER TORTORA: Because we vdfll talk to counsel about it. but I think it's important for you and the counsel to. REGINA STELTZER, ESQ.: I have no objections, I would be dei/ghted to do that. I'1t call him on Monday and try to arrange a time that. But I would like to say just one last thing, and that is that I personally have, to quote you as sa38ng, do not qnostion th/s zoning. And I am not asking you, because I know you do not have the authority to even if you wanted to change it. And my understanding is that the Town Board quite definitely they're not gong to change it. Okay. So that is one aspect of it, but there's a other aspect of it. and that is that you do have the authofity, you are the boss and the only authority to g/,ve variances. He is not entitled to this. This is not something that he supposed to get Phis is a special kind, ia giving somebo4y a variance, is giving them a benefit. Yon're giving them someth/ng special and you don't do that unless there's a really good strong reason for doing it. In tb/s case every single person who has ~oken up, and every single person who talked to you about tlfis before has givea you inuumerable reasons to nor give him the variances And t have not heard one person continue, the person who is the contract vendee, g~ve youa good reason as to wBy you should cllange the law and, inconvenience, more than just inconve~ence, the people,who live there ro give this person something he isnot entitte4 to. He can g~et other property, net in the Town of Southold, perhaps adjacent to it I am sure that this is ~,ot a unique piece of property and there ~s nothhng uthque about tl~. The only thing unique about it is, is tha~ it's uniquely nusuitecl for thb kind of proposal tha~r he~s making. Sc~ I hope you th/nk about that and deny this. I think i~ would be the equitable thing to 4o, ! think ifs legally the fight thing to do and it's also the thing to do for the commumvy. So thank you. And I will call Mr.. the attorney. Thank you CHAIRMAN: Mr. Domino? MIKE DOM1NIO: May I speak again? CHAIRMAN: Yes. MIKE DOMINO: I'm sorry if I did not conclude before, partly because I was nervous. CHAIRMAN: Don't worry about it. Pull that microphone up a little bit MIKE DOMiNIO: My quest/on about the lot being LIO. I understood that it was new development sub- division. The point that I was trfmg to make then was that the Town is trTAng to play the head and to avoid problems on smaller, sub-standard lots, and that's the current thinking. My point was that this report is concise and clear and points out that development in this area, connuercial development in tkis area. violates every other study, every pfinctple that was sero down for safety of the general population, not just the people of this particular community-. MEMBERTORTOKA: Could we have acopyofthat report? MIKE DOMINO: Absolutely. It's from the Town Clerk, it's there, it was paid for by the Town and it's available for everybody. This copy, I did mark it up. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: What's the name of the report? We just need the date and the name of it. Page 23, Oct o'0ea' 3. 2002 Tm~scnpt of Public ltearm~ Zo~fing Board of Appeals MIKE DOMINO: Cutchogue Industrial Area Plarming Study. dated August 26, 2002. MEMBER TORTORA: If we could just get a copy, xve can return that to you. MIICE. DOMINO: In conclusion, this summary of this states that parcel sizes in this area range from t0.000 to 22,000 square feet and therefore do not meet individually minimal lot s~ze required by zoning. Consolidation of properties is costly and potentially difficult. I21iS will lead [o a ktodgc podge of development. Small lots, resulting in small uses on inadequate, with inadequate parking and buffering. Access for industrial use requires nmmerous driveways, which logistically make difficu/t for small to memum sized Wicks and pre-conceived track, vehictes of traffic onto County Road 48. There is an immediate land me conflict with the resxdential uses in the core area, and some. but not all industrial use has the potential to use greater amqtmts of wa~er where, residential uses is more p~dicmblp. Ag~ 1 apologize for readin~ that to you,, but the report itself is ten pages and is much ~aure precise' and it'~logieal und it clearly lays out that ttfis should be a residential area. Thank yon. CHAIRMAN: Let me just say something to you, tar. Domino. And I apologize to you, for your when you were discussing that and for being cavalier in stating that. I have to tell you thai one of the unique parts, of my being on this Bo~d is that when you speak I'm not saying that it's not you, I know you. I don't know some of the other people that have spoken tonight. Pm putting myself in your place in that area and I'm trying to think of everything that you're doing. So the other stuff is mean/ngless other than what you as-e saying at that time. So I just qulcldy came back with a response m you at that point and I apologize for doing that. MIY,2E DOMINO: No offense taken. CHAIRMAN: I'I1 get yon in one-second ma'am. Go ahead ma'am. Could you state your name for the record please? THERESA PRINGLE: I'm Theresa Pringle. This is my first time with the judxcial system, but I'm here for Viola Cross_ which is a good friend of mine, I know her since I was a baby. I can see everybody here. 1 don't know everything that is going on, but I feel that I'm this is my first time of ever owning a house. So 1 own a house. Now Pm looking at her all these years of living there, and now somebody is just going to pul up something here, and expect for her not to say nothing. Like the way they've been getting treated, the way people think that that don't feel, we don't feel bad about it. We do. We suck it in. We don't say anything. We shut out mouth. She was there, and I can recall we used to go up there to the church and we used ro have our little things. Oh, you were at the dump. And people used to laugh. How do you think we feel right now, when there's a big building there that going ~o have chemicals there? You have to put yourself in her shoes. Would you want it in your backyard? Do you live there? Can you live there? Where your bulldig~ g this house right now-. can you live there? CHAIRMAN: You can't ask this. Everything you must state, you must state to the dais ~iI-1ERESA PRINGLE: All right, well I'm stating this to you. Like you said, you're putting yourself in his shoes that just put that down. Stc~p in Viola's shoes. And all the other people. Put yourself in my shoes. If you were black and want through all this stuff, all these years and now this, and she is a senior citizen. ] look at that right there is like, I don't think I would want to be treated like that. I never got treated poorly by anybody but to see her, a senior citizen. I could take that. but her when she's sick. You have ro put yourself in her shoes. But you have to think about that. all of you Think about somebody else's hurt, how they feel. That's what I'm looking ar, the hurt. And don't know how to explain yourself, after all the years of abuse. Thank you. SIDNEY ABBOTT: I think this came up at the prior hearing forgive me if I'm stating something again, but when I first found out about this situation the first thing I did, because of my trmning, was I drove the area. I didn't walk it. Reggie walked it, I drove it And 1, it was a couple of months ago now, so I can't remember exactly all the names of the streets but if you face the church, if you're standing say in the middle of say ~Page 24. October 3, 2002 Transcript o£ Pabli¢ ltearhag Zoning Board of Appeals Route 48 and you're facing the little church, I drove thc road immediately to the east from Route 48 back to that farm road back there, on that corner is a big industrial building for rent, that meets all of the qualifications apparently to my eyes, and I'm not an architect or an engineer: a concrete slal~, humungous amoant~ of parking, It has some temporary teuants or maybe it's not for rent and that sign is old, but the sign appeared to he new and it was hanging right there on the street, atter you passed the concrete companies and you get to that comer and we caunm pretend this is a anique site. This bad site, that's a correct site. That's all I wanted re say. There are other sites available. CHAIRMAN: We don't want to restrict anybody but we would like to wrap this up and so we'll ask anybody is fl~ere ~s anything you would like to complete~ If not. I would like to dose this the hearing and reserve decision- Please be aware that we have 62 days. We actually have more than 62 days to make a decision bra we usually don't take 62 days, but we have a lcr of discussion to go on here, a lot of tdeh~'beration. Two of our Board~Members ar~ g~t ~:tonight_ They will wait until ,t~is; the trar~crip~ of hi~ p .~,'cular hearing is traus ~cr~ed. And tlien~theg ~ ,read it anal then Fie willI make a decision. We ~re ~ ~eeks offjuSt in that issu,e~r~ght tlW3~,: t~o to l!rte¢ w~elcs, pleus,e be aware of mt. ~t~ at! rigl~,t Mrs~ C59ss; co/.ffd~[come over and sec ydn on Satarda~ * Ate:YOu aritailablo ~ Saturdaymomg? Are yoU /ivallable on Satltrday morning ~'~rs. Cross? VIOLA CROSS-: No, I'm not. I have to go to the hospital. My daughter m on critical and CHAIRMAN: Oh, I'm sorry. I just want to tell you, yon may see me ap and down the road Saturday mormng, so I was just going to stop bY and say hello. Okay, I'll be up and down the road Saturday morning. We thank everybody for their comtesy and we thank everybody for their input. I'll make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later. SlgE i~ENIJTES FOR RESOLUTION Respectfully submitted by: Pauia Quintieri/'// October 9. 2007/