HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-07/02/2024 PH 1
1 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK
2 ------------------------------------------- X
3
TOWN BOARD
4 PUBLIC HEARINGS
5 ------------------------------------------- X
6
7
Southold, New York
8
July 2 , 2024
9 9 : 05 A .M .
10
11
12
13
14
15 B E F 0 R E :
16
17 ALBERT KRUPSKI JR, SUPERVISOR
18 LOUISA P . EVANS , JUSTICE
19 JILL DOHERTY, COUNCILWOMAN
20 BRIAN 0 . MEALY, COUNCILMAN
21 GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN
22 ANNE H . SMITH, COUNCILWOMAN
23
24
25
2
1 INDEX TO PUBLIC HEARINGS
2
3 NAME PAGE
4
5 EAST END SEAPORT MUSEUM, LONG BEACH
BAR BUG LIGHTHOUSE 5- 8
6
CHRISTOPHER AND MARISSA LAZOS ,
7 1200 LEETON DRIVE, SOUTHOLD 8-45
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 3
1 EAST END SEAPORT MUSEUM, LONG BEACH
2 BAR BUG LIGHTHOUSE
3 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : I would
4 like our the Town Attorney Paul
5 DeChance, to give an explanation of what
6 we ' re doing today before we open the
7 hearing .
8 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Thank
9 you, and good morning . The Board has
10 before this morning two separate appeals
11 from denials of coastal erosion hazard
12 area permits from the Board of Trustees .
13 Under the code, under Section 111 of the
14 Code , the Town Board is considered the
15 Coastal Erosion Hazard Board of Review
16 hearing appeals from denials of CEHA
17 permits from the Trustees . The Board ' s
18 purpose here is to hear and decide
19 appeals where it is -- where it is
20 alleged that there is an error in any
21 order, requirement, decision or
22 determination made by the administrator
23 in the enforcement of chapter . The
24 administrator as per the code is the
25 Board of Trustees . The Town Board is
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 4
1 the Coastal Erosion Hazard Board Review
2 to hear appeals from those decisions .
3 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
4 you . Mr . Clerk, could you call the
5 roll ?
6 TOWN CLERK D . NONCARROW : Yes ,
7 Councilman Doroski ?
8 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Here .
9 TOWN CLERK D . NONCARROW :
10 Councilman Mealy?
11 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Present .
12 TOWN CLERK D . NONCARROW :
13 Councilwoman Smith?
14 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Here .
15 TOWN CLERK D . NONCARROW :
16 Councilwoman Doherty?
17 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Here .
18 TOWN CLERK D . NONCARROW : Justice
19 Evans?
20 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Here .
21 TOWN CLERK D . NONCARROW :
22 Supervisor Krupski ?
23 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Here .
24 TOWN CLERK D . NONCARROW : Everybody
25 is in attendance .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 5
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you . All right . So the first appeal is
3 for -- It ' s a Long Beach Bar Bug
4 Lighthouse in Orient, and it ' s an appeal
5 for the coastal erosion hazard permit .
6 And Councilman Doroski is going to read
7 the legal notices .
8 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So in the
9 hearing folder here , I have a notice to
10 the applicant . I have a notice to the
11 New York State Department of
12 Environmental Conservation . I have an
13 affidavit that it was published -- the
14 legal notice was published in the
15 Suffolk Times , along with a copy of the
16 legal notice . I have an affidavit
17 signed by our Town Clerk, Denis
18 Noncarrow, that it was posted on the
19 back bulletin board . I have affidavits
20 that it was posted near the property as
21 required . A copy of the resolution
22 setting the public hearing . I have a
23 copy of the application itself for the
24 appeal . I have a copy of the Trustee
25 application, and that ' s what I got .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 6
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you . Thank You, Greg . Mr . DeChance, is
3 the record complete?
4 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Yes ,
5 Mr . Supervisor, the record is complete .
6 We could proceed .
7 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
8 right . Thank you . Is there anyone who
9 would like to speak on this matter? Is
10 there anyone on the Zoom who would like
11 to -- Mr . Masseria, go right ahead .
12 We ' re listening .
13 KEITH MASSERIA: Yeah . Hi , this is
14 Keith Masseria from McLean Associates .
15 We ' re working on behalf of the East End
16 Seaport Marine . And I just wanted to
17 express the importance of this project
18 for the safety of the property .
19 Currently, there ' s one smaller pier to
20 access the lighthouse, which is at a
21 high elevation, which serves well for
22 the larger boats , that dock at the
23 facility, but there ' s really no
24 accommodations for the smaller vessels
25 that dock there . So the proposal
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 7
1 includes adding a section of the dock at
2 a lower elevation that will allow for
3 access to the smaller boats . Creating a
4 safer environment . Easy for people to
5 get off the boats , and also providing a
6 wider walkway for people to get off the
7 boats as well . Currently, you have to
8 climb up a large ladder at extreme
9 heights during a very low tide . So this
10 is a very important thing for the
11 lighthouse to expand the amount of
12 people who can come to the facility, and
13 also make it safer . And also, in
14 addition to the pier, it ' s creating a
15 safer walkway through the insulation of
16 additional stone around the perimeter of
17 the lighthouse, which the intent is to
18 create that area safer as well .
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
20 right . Thank you . Is there anyone else
21 like to comment on this application or
22 the appeal for it?
23 (No Response ) .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Seeing
25 none , do I have a motion to close the
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 8
1 hearing?
2 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Make a
3 motion to close .
4 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I ' ll
5 second .
6 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
7 favor?
8 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
9 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
10 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
11 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
12 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
14 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
15 CHRISTOPHER AND MARISSA LAZOS , 1200
16 LEETON DRIVE, SOUTHOLD
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
18 right . Second hearing is for a matter
19 that is for coastal erosion hazard board
20 review for a person for Christopher and
21 Marissa Lazos on Leeton Drive . It ' s
22 going to -- Just one minute . Greg ' s
23 going to read the notices into the
24 record for us . Thank you .
25 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So in the
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 9
1 folder here, I have a -- it ' s a little
2 out of order . I ' m just going to read
3 through it as I have it here though . An
4 affidavit that this was mailed to the
5 adjacent residences . Notice to the
6 application -- the applicant . A notice
7 to the New York State Department,
8 Environmental Conservation, and
9 affidavit of publication of the legal
10 notice in the Suffolk Times , along with
11 a copy of the legal notice . I have a
12 copy of the resolution setting the
13 public hearing . A copy of the affidavit
14 signed by our Town Clerk Denis Noncarrow
15 that it was -- the notice for the public
16 hearing was posted on the back bulletin
17 board . I have a copy of the coastal
18 erosion appeal application . I have a
19 copy of the application that was sent to
20 the Trustees , and then I have a letter
21 opposing this application based on their
22 feeling that it would impede the natural
23 beauty of the shoreline community, and
24 create harmful effects and overuse of
25 the septic system. I have a second
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 10
1 similar letter . So I have two letters
2 in opposition to this appeal
3 application .
4 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
5 you . Mr . DeChance, is the record
6 complete to hold the hearing?
7 PATRICIA MOORE : I would point out
8 that we did send three letters in
9 supports , but that should be incorrect .
10 That was sent separately . It should be
11 in your file . It was --
12 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : I will
13 say that I haven ' t seen them . How did
14 you -- how did you --
15 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I can say
16 I have a divider that says letter of
17 support , but I do not see any .
18 PATRICIA MOORE : I don ' t know . We
19 will provide another set, if you like ,
20 before the hearing is up, if somebody
21 can find them . That ' d be great . Or we
22 can tell you who they are .
23 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well ,
24 we ' d like them.
25 PATRICIA MOORE : Oh, the immediate
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 11
1 neighbors .
2 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : We
3 would like to have them for the record .
4 PATRICIA MOORE : Absolutely . You
5 should have them . Thank you .
6 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Pat ,
7 who do you send them to, the Town Clerk?
8 PATRICIA MOORE : Well , they were
9 delivered to the Town Clerk .
10 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
11 right . Well , we ' ll sort that out . So
12 with -- and with that otherwise , is the
13 is the record complete?
14 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : The
15 record is complete apart from those
16 letters , and we are looking for them
17 now . We will let you know when they ' re
18 identified and marked them as part of
19 the record .
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
21 right go right --
22 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : They did
23 find the three letters . They were
24 stapled together . My apologies .
25 PATRICIA MOORE : No problem.
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 12
1 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : If you
2 could, just start with your appearance
3 for the record?
4 PATRICIA MOORE : Yes . Patricia
5 Moore on behalf of Mr . & Mrs . Lazos . I
6 do have my clients here . They ' re right
7 in front there . I also have Anthony
8 Portillo, who is the architect on this
9 project , and can answer any issues that
10 you might have related to the structure
11 itself .
12 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Thank
13 you, Ms . Moore . Prior to the beginning
14 of the hearing, we had an off the record
15 conversation . I did disclose to you
16 that our trustee , Nick Krupski , was on
17 the Board when this decision was made
18 and in fact made the motion to deny at
19 the time of the hearing . You recognize
20 that Albert Krupski is the Town
21 Supervisor and he is here to consider
22 that decision of the Board of Trustees .
23 I asked -- upon that disclosure , I asked
24 whether or not the applicants consent to
25 the participation of the Supervisor .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 13
1 And I just -- I was looking for your
2 response for the record?
3 PATRICIA MOORE : Yes , thank you . I
4 did discuss it with my clients . We will
5 trust that you will be fair and
6 impartial , and listen to us , as I know
7 you will be . So we will not ask for you
8 to recuse yourself .
9 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : So the
10 applicant is consenting?
11 PATRICIA MOORE : We ' ll consent .
12 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Thank
13 you .
14 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
15 you .
16 PATRICIA MOORE : May I begin?
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Please
18 proceed .
19 PATRICIA MOORE : Thank you . To
20 begin with, this is relatively
21 straightforward application as the code
22 is defined, as the Coastal Erosion Law
23 Chapter 111 is defined . This project is
24 considered a minor addition . It is
25 considered minor because it is building
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 14
1 on top of an existing footprint . There
2 is no expansion of the footprint, other
3 than the staircase . And the staircase
4 is outside the coastal erosion area . So
5 it is -- it is landward of the coastal
6 erosion . I failed to see that when I
7 was looking at the map . There were a
8 lot of lines . And I didn ' t point that
9 out . So I want to make sure that it ' s
10 very clear that the only portion of
11 expansion of this , is that addition that
12 is the staircase -- the interior
13 staircase to go to the new floor, what
14 is considered the third floor .
15 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Let me
16 ask you, was that brought up at the
17 Trustees hearing? I read through the
18 Trustees record, I didn ' t see any
19 discussion about where the -- the
20 three-story addition fell ?
21 PATRICIA MOORE : Oh, absolutely .
22 Where the third -- three-story is ? Yes ,
23 it was one of the applications . That ' s
24 on top of the existing structure .
25 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : No .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 15
1 I ' m talking about the three-story
2 addition, which is the stairwell up?
3 PATRICIA MOORE : The stair at the
4 end of 2015 .
5 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : And
6 when I asked those whether it was part
7 of the Trustees record, I did not see it
8 after reading the transcripts .
9 PATRICIA MOORE : No . No . Was --
10 did it change at some point? It was
11 discussed . Mr . Portillo was the agent
12 at the Trustees hearing .
13 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : So I
14 know that we discussed the addition
15 exactly where the -- the addition was
16 being placed within or outside of CR
17 was . I didn ' t see -- my point to bring
18 that up is understand that this is an
19 appeal from the record below, not a new
20 record . So if it ' s not part of the
21 record below the Board can ' t consider
22 it .
23 PATRICIA MOORE : Well , it would
24 have been part of the record because the
25 line -- the CEHA line is on the plans .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 16
1 The addition is on the plans . So we
2 presume that they properly viewed the
3 map . They looked at this map over two
4 different hearings . So I believe that
5 they were --
6 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : All
7 right .
8 PATRICIA MOORE : They would have
9 been aware .
10 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : It was
11 on the survey, but not part --
12 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Could I
13 frame a little differently? So the map
14 that ' s submitted for our record is what
15 the Trustees considered there?
16 PATRICIA MOORE : That is the same
17 plan, which shows the same line .
18 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
19 you .
20 PATRICIA MOORE : So with respect to
21 this addition on top of the existing
22 structure, we established and gave proof
23 and discussed with the Trustees that
24 this project, as it ' s proposed, would be
25 the minimal impact to the property . To
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 17
1 change this plan, and put an addition on
2 the property that would not be over the
3 existing structure may cause more damage
4 than what is proposed . We in the
5 meantime did receive Health Department
6 approval . So the sanitary system that
7 is in the front yard is going to be an
8 IA system. That was discussed that . It
9 was proposed on the plans . In the time
10 between the Trustees decision and this
11 hearing, the Health Department came back
12 and gave approval . So as far as the
13 Health Department, they were a little
14 out of the ordinary because usually they
15 ask for all permits to be in-hand before
16 they were released their permit . But in
17 this case, because it ' s an existing
18 structure and the benefit to the
19 community, and to the property is
20 significant in providing for an IA the
21 IA system, as you know, is the law right
22 now in Suffolk County, but in particular
23 it reduces pollutants by 970 . Nitrogen
24 reduction ratio of up to 750 . So this
25 project will actually be a benefit
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 18
1 because without this project , nobody has
2 any obligation to replace the sanitary .
3 If anything, if you recall from the
4 record, the house was moved to this site
5 several years ago . It got DEC approval .
6 Trustees -- it was pre-Trustees . And at
7 that time, a new sanitary system was
8 installed . So the system that ' s there
9 would be sufficient for the existing
10 house, but in our mitigation, we offered
11 to replace the sanitary system. So that
12 was one of the major environmental
13 benefits of this project . The second
14 environmental benefit, we had Cole
15 Environmental review the property and
16 they provided a planting plan that would
17 restore the natural environment with
18 additional plantings , native plantings .
19 And the access that is presently
20 existing, which has been in existence
21 since the house was moved, is going to
22 be reduced . The access to the beach is
23 going to be reduced down to 4 feet ,
24 which is what the Wetland Ordinance
25 requires . So that was a second
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 19
1 environmental benefit by this project .
2 Finally, the -- let me see if I have
3 another one here . Beach access . The
4 other point I would make is that in
5 2019 , the Southold Town Trustees issued
6 a permit for a revetment along the
7 seaward side of the house .
8 Approximately Elevation 8 . That is
9 seaward of the deck and the staircase .
10 And at that time , the Trustees
11 determined that the dune area was
12 seaward of that line . That was ignored
13 in the review of this project because
14 the way they interpreted this project
15 was that the entire property was in the
16 dune area . I would use the 2019 permit
17 as the Trustee ' s determination of where
18 in fact the dune area exists . Again,
19 this project is considered minor --
20 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Let
21 me -- I ' m sorry to interrupt you .
22 Didn ' t the Trustees go and visit the
23 parcel at the time of the application?
24 PATRICIA MOORE : This application?
25 Yes , of course .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 20
1 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : And
2 they made some findings about the
3 location of the dune?
4 PATRICIA MOORE : We believe those
5 findings were in error because if in
6 2019 the Trustees made a determination
7 and allowed the revetment or the
8 hardening structures at the line where
9 the dune area line exists . There ' s been
10 no change .
11 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : This is
12 five years later though .
13 PATRICIA MOORE : Yes , and there ' s
14 been absolutely no change to the
15 property . The conditions are as they
16 were in 2019 . In fact , we would point
17 out that the conditions of the property
18 have remained the same since the house
19 was relocated, and approved by the DEC .
20 The location of this house, the DEC
21 reviewed, and they determined that this
22 location was the appropriate location .
23 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : You
24 know what I ' m referring to though, as
25 part of the original hearing transcript?
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 21
1 Let me just go through it for the
2 record . Sorry for the delay . I didn ' t
3 think we were going to go with this , but
4 well --
5 PATRICIA MOORE : I ' m adding all of
6 the points and --
7 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : And I
8 appreciate that . So they do refer --
9 the Trustees do reference their visit to
10 the parcel and they talked about the
11 dune appearing to want to migrate into
12 or into the dwelling . Do you remember
13 that?
14 PATRICIA MOORE : Yes , I do remember
15 that .
16 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Do you
17 see -- do you have the transcript in
18 front of --
19 PATRICIA MOORE : I don ' t know that
20 I could pull it up immediately .
21 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : So
22 doesn ' t that -- doesn ' t that lead you to
23 believe that there ' s been a change in
24 the location of the dune since 2019,
25 five years before?
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 22
1 PATRICIA MOORE : Honestly, I don ' t
2 -- I would not agree with that review .
3 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : With
4 their findings?
5 PATRICIA MOORE : With their
6 findings , yes . We think that it was an
7 error to begin with . I mean, you have a
8 house directly next to it to the west ,
9 which is in line with this house, a
10 slightly seaward . And you have the
11 house to the east, which is more
12 seaward . So to claim that the dune is
13 moving and trying to .
14 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE :
15 Migrate?
16 PATRICIA MOORE : Migrate over this
17 property just is -- doesn ' t make sense .
18 It ' s illogical . I mean, you --
19 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So it ' s
20 on Page 13 and 14 .
21 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Thank
22 you .
23 PATRICIA MOORE : Thank you .
24 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : So
25 let ' s go to 13 and 14 .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 23
1 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Or it ' s
2 the top of 14 . When we did the field
3 inspection, there ' s actually a retaining
4 wall on the north, right side and front
5 of that basement to prevent sand from
6 going into the basement . Because that
7 dune wants to migrate into the house,
8 and it cannot due to the construction of
9 the house . So it has created an
10 environmental hazard and effect in the
11 environment and the habitat . And it is
12 a primary dune we would like to protect .
13 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : So
14 that ' s a firsthand finding of the
15 Trustees . And this is Trustee Goldsmith
16 speaking . At the time that they visited
17 the dwelling, contemporaneous with the
18 Trustee Hearing, and I see it ' s sometime
19 in 2023 . Again, you ' re saying that at
20 some point prior, the dune may have been
21 north of the house, but that finding
22 contradicts -- seems to contradict your
23 statement that it ' s still north of the
24 house .
25 PATRICIA MOORE : Well I would rely
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 24
1 on the surveys . That if you review the
2 survey that was submitted for this
3 project , and the survey that was in
4 2019 , the topographic features , which
5 would indicate where the dune and where
6 the sand is mounting, is nearly
7 identical . So I think that the Trustees
8 were trying to come up with reasons to
9 deny this project, that to lie logic .
10 Also this project, as is proposed, the
11 house is not changing . The house is --
12 the additional story is over the
13 existing house .
14 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Well ,
15 when you say the house is not changing,
16 we ' re increasing square footage , the
17 habitable space by over 500 . It ' s 520 ,
18 I believe .
19 PATRICIA MOORE : Well --
20 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : It ' s
21 changing .
22 PATRICIA MOORE : It ' s changing in
23 the sense that the bedrooms are being
24 relocated to the third floor . The
25 family has four children and two adults .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 25
1 The family is not changing . They need
2 the space for their immediate family .
3 The purpose of the Coastal Erosion Law
4 and the language of the Coastal Erosion
5 Law does recognize certain rights that
6 homeowners and property owners are --
7 that they have . It ' s not a prohibition
8 on development .
9 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Of
10 course, but it ' s subject to the
11 considerations that the code provides .
12 In addition to this 52 % increase in
13 square footage --
14 ANTHONY PORTILLO : Less than 50 ,
15 sorry .
16 PATRICIA MOORE : If you ' d like the
17 actual square footage -- well actually
18 --
19 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : It ' s
20 all in there . It ' s all in the record .
21 PATRICIA MOORE : Well , then it ' s a
22 misstatement . Okay . We will have the
23 architect describe what is , but what is
24 the purposed --
25 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : There ' s
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 26
1 also an increase in the footprint .
2 PATRICIA MOORE : It is not an
3 increase in the footprint . I ' m sorry, I
4 think you ' re mistaken .
5 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : A
6 three-story addition is an increase in
7 the footprint .
8 PATRICIA MOORE : It ' s an increase
9 in the gross floor area . Let me
10 clarify . It ' s not a footprint . The
11 footprint is --
12 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : I ' m not
13 talking about the third-story addition .
14 I ' m talking about the stairway addition .
15 PATRICIA MOORE : And it ' s still
16 considered a minor addition because it ' s
17 less than 200 square feet . It is less
18 than the 250 of the existing structure .
19 It is a defined term. You can ' t come to
20 that --
21 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : You ' re
22 referencing a minor addition .
23 PATRICIA MOORE : It ' s 115 square
24 feet --
25 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Under
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 27
1 Chapter 111 of the code?
2 PATRICIA MOORE : I am. Yes .
3 Specifically the way that minor addition
4 is defined, if you look at the
5 definition of a major addition, you work
6 backwards . A major addition is an
7 increase in the footprint by more than
8 250 .
9 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : And
10 that would be the first two sentences .
11 When you go to the second two sentences ,
12 it talks about an increase calculated as
13 the proposed livable floor area
14 including any additions to the principal
15 building constructed as of the enactment
16 of the chapter divided by the livable
17 floor area of the existing principal
18 building . When you take the second two
19 sentences , we ' re increasing
20 approximately a thousand square feet .
21 We can argue about 25 square feet either
22 way and that ' s a 52 % increase or 500
23 increase .
24 PATRICIA MOORE : I would
25 respectfully disagree with your
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 28
1 interpretation of the Coastal Erosion
2 Law and how it ' s been applied for the
3 last 35 years . So since it ' s been
4 adopted . So I would respectfully
5 disagree with your analysis . We are
6 abiding very carefully by the Coastal
7 Erosion Law . We are making -- we have a
8 project that is intended to not impact
9 the environment that ' s trying to
10 mitigate, and improve the existing
11 conditions of the property . So , that is
12 our position and we hope that you will
13 find it in -- when -- in your
14 deliberations , that it is a reasonable
15 request . Again, if you go along this
16 street, you will also notice that there
17 are -- many of the homes . I think there
18 are maybe two small homes left on Leeton
19 Drive that are the original cottages .
20 All the others . Okay . Thank you .
21 Certainly, there ' s been significant
22 increases , significant houses that have
23 been -- including the ones next door,
24 that are larger and more imposing than
25 what this proposed addition will result
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 29
1 in .
2 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Pat ,
3 are they larger and more imposing
4 because they ' ve been raised to FEMA
5 standards ?
6 PATRICIA MOORE : To the extent that
7 those houses were new construction, they
8 met FEMA. If they were additions , it
9 depended on the degree of the
10 renovation . If the house was renovated
11 less than 500 , then only the new
12 structure has to be FEMA compliant .
13 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : So
14 we ' re familiar with that . When you say
15 they ' re larger, are you referring to
16 houses that have been raised to FEMA
17 standards ?
18 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . :
19 Elevated . Elevated .
20 PATRICIA MOORE : Oh, raised .
21 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . :
22 Elevated .
23 PATRICIA MOORE : Yes . No , no, I
24 understood that . Well , the house
25 directly to the west -- Anthony, do
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 30
1 you -- The west is larger . Is that FEMA
2 compliant? It is , but -- it ' s brand new
3 construction . Okay .
4 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Just in
5 your papers , you mentioned other
6 three-story houses and we ' re not
7 familiar with any .
8 PATRICIA MOORE : They ' re all
9 considered three-story houses .
10 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : The
11 ones that you ' re referring to though are
12 built to FEMA standards and have
13 non-unhabitable ground floors with
14 certain mitigation measures attached,
15 including breakaway walls .
16 PATRICIA MOORE : I ' m not so sure
17 that all of them --
18 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : Well ,
19 are you here to present any other
20 three-story, livable, habitable dwelling
21 on this roadway? Three-story ' s , all
22 having those things ?
23 PATRICIA MOORE : I would be happy
24 to review every building permit that ' s
25 on that block .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 31
1 TOWN ATTORNEY P . DECHANCE : No, I
2 mean, are you ready to present that
3 today? Because we ' re not familiar with
4 it?
5 PATRICIA MOORE : Well , I ' m not
6 familiar with your opposite conclusion .
7 So are you familiar with every house?
8 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
9 right, but we ' ll -- we ' ll focus on
10 the -- let ' s focus on the application at
11 hand and how it applies to it --
12 PATRICIA MOORE : -- between the
13 attorneys and say --
14 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I guess ,
15 though, as it relates to this question
16 of a third-story, we are talking about
17 the addition of a third-story here .
18 PATRICIA MOORE : By definition, yes .
19 We have Zoning Board Approval . That went
20 first . We received our Zoning Board
21 Approval about 2 -- 3 months ago . No, 6
22 months ago . It took that long to get
23 before this Board . And the project was
24 approved as it ' s been proposed . So , as
25 far as it ' s habitable space, the Zoning
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 32
1 Board reviewed it, and that -- we have
2 approval .
3 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Yeah, but
4 just as it relates to the total increase
5 in gross floor area, we are talking
6 about a significant third-story
7 addition .
8 PATRICIA MOORE : Okay . I ' ll let
9 you speak in a second, if you want to go
10 on the record, but because it has to be
11 transcribed . I would say that to begin
12 with, that ' s really not the issue of the
13 Coastal Erosion Law . The Coastal Erosion
14 Law speaks -- is a defined term . And we
15 are abiding by the coastal erosion . The
16 issue of a third floor was within the
17 jurisdiction of the Zoning Board, and we
18 got the approval . We got the variances
19 that were required . So as far as this
20 application, it starts with the Building
21 Department . If the Building Department
22 determines that the addition is not a
23 demolition or more than 500 of the value
24 of the existing structure , then it ' s
25 strictly an addition . I would also
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 33
1 remind the Board that we have COs for
2 the existing structure . The first
3 floor, ground floor, has a garage and
4 living space, the Rec Room. The main
5 floor right now has the bedrooms and the
6 living room. This application would
7 enable the bedrooms to go to the third
8 floor, and leave the main level for one
9 small bedroom, guest bedroom or master
10 bedroom, and the living space . So it ' s
11 a reallocation of the space .
12 Technically, we have more bedrooms , but
13 it doesn ' t mean we have more bodies .
14 The same bodies , they ' re just going to
15 occupy their own bedrooms instead of one
16 bedroom with four kids in it .
17 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Well , I
18 guess the reason I bring it up is it
19 seems like you ' re making the claim that
20 it ' s a minor addition . It seems like
21 when you look at the project in total ,
22 it ' s pretty significant . And as the
23 Town Attorney ' s pointed out, whether
24 it ' s 40 , 50 plus percent, that falls
25 above the minor addition that you ' re
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 34
1 presenting . And as we look at the
2 Trustees record, becomes more
3 significant because as you look at the
4 first floor, it doesn ' t have the
5 traditional breakaway walls . And that
6 really is you know -- it changes the
7 scope and scale of the overall
8 structure .
9 PATRICIA MOORE : I understand your
10 point . I ' m relying on the definitions
11 under the Coastal Erosion Law . That ' s
12 what we ' re appealing . It ' s somewhat of
13 a subjective review of whether or not is
14 it significant, not significant . I ' m
15 going by the definitional terms that are
16 very clear under the Coastal Erosion
17 Law . There is a recognition that houses
18 there -- there has to be some ability to
19 invest in your property, and make
20 improvements to the property . And
21 that ' s how the Coastal Erosion Law was
22 written . It wasn ' t that complete bar to
23 making improvements to the property .
24 Elimination of the main -- the garage
25 level , the first floor . Okay . Garage
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 35
1 level . That was a significant hardship
2 and financial hardship, and hardship to
3 the applicants , because that area has a
4 Certificate of Occupancy . It ' s all
5 legal . And to create that condition on
6 the approval , it was eliminating a
7 right, a permitted structure from
8 existence . That was a significant
9 impact to the family . It ' s a Rec Room.
10 And if you want to say no bedrooms on
11 that floor, that ' s a reasonable request .
12 We have all the bedrooms going up on the
13 third floor . That ' s the purpose of the
14 third floor . But to eliminate what is
15 CO ' d space versus what the environmental
16 mitigation that they we ' re trying to
17 address , the alleged migration of the
18 dune , it ' s just -- it doesn ' t make sense
19 there . The breakaway walls are
20 unnecessary here . If it floods , too
21 bad . They ' re a problem. Okay . They
22 won ' t blame anybody but themselves . But
23 in all the time that this house has been
24 in existence, there ' s been accretion on
25 that water body . That beach is getting
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 36
1 bigger . The homes on these -- along
2 this block and North Sea Drive are all
3 very stable . They have -- some have
4 breakaway walls , but most of them
5 have -- if there were pre-existing would
6 have some living space . You can tell
7 from how they are, you know, when you
8 drive by, they have windows . They have
9 doors . They are not generally -- I
10 would say, just from the exterior,
11 because in reviewing the building permit
12 records , oftentimes the basements of Rec
13 Rooms are less important, and not
14 necessarily detailed in the construction
15 drawings . So as far as each house
16 having that floor, I do recall looking
17 at it, but they was inconclusive .
18 Because the houses are all built on
19 piers . That much is consistent , but
20 whether there ' s walls that have windows
21 and doorways and maybe a bathroom or a
22 family room, generally that ' s how people
23 were utilizing their homes . This
24 project , it ' s not intended to take away
25 what they ' ve already have COs on . That
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 37
1 to us was an unreasonable expectation or
2 even condition . So my papers do cite
3 that in the -- in the appeal . It would
4 have not been a reasonable condition .
5 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Can I
6 ask a question of Paul , you know, what
7 triggers what percentage of additions
8 triggers FEMA is -- FEMA to, like what
9 you have to -- sometimes if you ' re over
10 that , then you ' d have to come up to
11 current FEMA standards .
12 PATRICIA MOORE : I ' ll put Anthony,
13 he ' s the architect . So he can give us
14 the technical answer . I ' ll can give it,
15 but I ' ll let him .
16 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I think
17 that would be good to know . For
18 everybody to understand .
19 ANTHONY PORTILLO : Good morning .
20 Anthony Portillo , AMP Architecture .
21 So -- and I think this term gets thrown
22 around a lot, FEMA compliant . Nothing
23 proposed here is not FEMA compliant .
24 The addition is going to have breakaway
25 walls . It is above the design flood
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 38
1 elevation . That ' s required . Because
2 the addition is not creating the 500
3 over the value of the existing home .
4 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : That ' s
5 what it is .
6 ANTHONY PORTILLO : Which was
7 determined by the Building Department
8 from the very beginning . We have a
9 denial letter that calls an alteration
10 addition, which warranted us to move
11 into zoning . Receive zoning approval
12 for the third-story . Because it is
13 considered addition alteration, the
14 existing level can remain . That ' s FEMA
15 compliant . So I think -- and I ' ve heard
16 this throughout this project . It ' s not
17 FEMA compliant . It ' s not . It is FEMA
18 compliant . It does meet the Chapter 17 ,
19 Flood Resistant Construction . You ' re
20 not required to abandon that floor . I
21 just want -- you know, that is -- I
22 think that should -- for the record, we
23 shouldn ' t say it ' s not FEMA compliant .
24 It is FEMA compliant . If that ' s what
25 we ' re talking about .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 39
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Oh,
2 that ' s a good question . Thank you for
3 that answer . We ' re going to consider
4 the Coastal Erosion Law, which is what
5 the appeals for .
6 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY :
7 Understood . I just wanted to make that
8 clear too .
9 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Right .
10 Thank you .
11 ANTHONY PORTILLO : Thank you .
12 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
13 right . Are you done, Pat? Or is there?
14 PATRICIA MOORE : Want to say
15 anything?
16 MARISSA LAZOS : Hi . My name is
17 Marissa Lazos . I just want to say I ' ve
18 been sitting through these meetings and
19 I think what we ' re proposing -- I know
20 we ' re proposing is like -- the most
21 modest -- least we can do to this house
22 to fit in the house with our children,
23 and our growing family . So right now we
24 have three kids in a triple bunk bed .
25 My daughter ' s 10-years-old . She ' s
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 40
1 hitting her head on the ceiling . You
2 know, this is not something we ' re doing
3 for fun . I don ' t want to clean a bigger
4 house . Like, I want the kids to grow --
5 we want to grow old in this house . And
6 we need to fit . So I just like -- I ' m
7 not trying to pull on everyone ' s
8 emotional heart, heartstrings . I don ' t
9 know all these technicalities . I ' m just
10 telling you with the purpose of this
11 project is . So I just hope that that
12 resonates with some of you, and you can
13 understand that we ' re -- we love the
14 community . We love our neighbors .
15 We ' re not trying to aggravate anybody .
16 We ' re trying to disturb the environment
17 as least we can . You know, we ' ve
18 planted since we bought the house
19 five -- six years ago . The beach for us
20 is like an abundance . The beach is
21 growing our neighbors to both sides of
22 us , and behind us are all , you know,
23 okay with the project . We have their
24 support . So I just -- I don ' t know, I
25 just hope we can see the logical end of
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 41
1 this instead of -- it ' s like -- what
2 everyone was proposing in the beginning
3 was more of an environmental impact . It
4 was destroying actually the beach and
5 the dunes and ripping out the bottom.
6 And then they said, you can knock the
7 whole house down and build over . Like,
8 it just -- it ' s illogical . So just
9 hoping that we could see this for what
10 it is and not know that we ' re trying to
11 build a mansion on the beach because
12 clearly we ' re not . Our house is still
13 very modest and small after this is all
14 done . So thank you for hearing me .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
16 you .
17 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Thank
18 you .
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Would
20 anyone else like to comment on this
21 appeal . Yes , ma ' am?
22 VIRGINIA NORMANDIA: Virginia
23 Normandia, Leeton Drive . I ' ve been
24 there for 40 years . So I ' ve seen a
25 couple of things . Just to correct the
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 42
1 records , we have 17 houses on the beach .
2 Only 4 of them have gone up . And those
3 are two-story additions . Not a bottom
4 floor . Okay, 17 to 4 , unless you count
5 the cupola, and then it ' s 5 to 7 -- of
6 17 have gone up . The rest of them are
7 small . Okay . I was delighted to see
8 Beth Young is on here . Her newspaper, I
9 brought . Southold At Work .
10 Hamptonization . Love the interview with
11 our Superintendent, who does say "We
12 don ' t want variances to undermine the
13 intent of the Big House Law . We have to
14 have everyone in compliance with the
15 spirit of the Big House Law . " This is
16 not going to be a big house . This is
17 not the question . It is -- the question
18 of three-story ' s . And I ' ve been to all
19 of the meetings . The ZBA said, "their
20 hands are tied . " I don ' t know why their
21 hands are tied . The Trustees tried to
22 come up with something that would hold,
23 perhaps their illegal expertise was not
24 perfect . But we do have a rule about
25 three-story ' s in Southold . And if we
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 43
1 accept variances now for three-story ' s
2 on the beach, it will open a can of
3 worms . If this project does go through,
4 I would like to tell Cole , that they
5 need to replant with American Beach
6 Grass , not this Spartina, which is not a
7 dune grass . We on Kenny ' s Beach in 2000
8 planted Kenny ' s Beach with Beach Grass .
9 It was a flat pancake of sand . If you
10 look at it now, we have a beautiful
11 dune . That ' s American Beach Grass .
12 It ' s not any of the other stuff that
13 people try to plant . So sorry for being
14 a little like this because I ' m going off
15 to plant in Custer for your garden . And
16 I ' m a little messy, but it ' s almost
17 late . I will stick with you then .
18 Thank you very much and thanks Beth .
19 Bye .
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
21 you very comments . Anyone else like to
22 speak?
23 ANDREW STANTON : Good morning . My
24 name is Andrew Stanton . I have 1480
25 Leeton Drive . Been there for -- since
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 44
1 1973 with the family . I ' d just like to
2 say that I think the approach that ' s
3 been taken here is common sense . I
4 don ' t think it affects the area very
5 much . It ' s changed quite a bit , and I
6 support the project .
7 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
8 you . Would anyone else like to speak?
9 (No Response ) .
10 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Well , I
11 would -- if there -- if there no one
12 else and is anyone on the Zoom that
13 would like to comment?
14 TOWN CLERK D . NONCARROW : No , sir .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
16 right . So , I would make a motion to
17 close or I would entertain a motion to
18 close the hearing . And the fact that
19 we ' ve heard a lot, I would rather not
20 vote on this today . I would rather put
21 this off and consider what we ' ve heard,
22 and consider what was put into the
23 record .
24 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So moved .
25 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Second .
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 45
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : To
2 close the hearing, all in favor?
3 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
4 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
5 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
6 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
7 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
8 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
9 Thank you . Thank you all for coming .
10
11
12 (Whereupon, the Public Hearings
13 concluded at this time . )
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JULY 2, 2024 PUBLIC HEARINGS 46
1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
2
3 I , Jessica DiLallo, a Notary Public
4 for and within the State of New York,
5 do hereby certify :
6 THAT , the within transcript is a
7 true record of said Board Meeting .
8 I further certify that I am not
9 related either by blood or marriage to
10 any of the parties to this action; and
11 that I am in no way interested in the
12 outcome of this matter .
13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
14 set my hand this day, July 2 , 2024 .
15
16
17 ( Jeo sic iLallo )
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25