HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-09/09/2002PLANNING:BOARD MEMBERS
J~RILY~ 13. WOODI~OUSE
~h~ir
RICHARD CAGG-IANO
WILLIAM J. CREMERS
KENNETH L. EDWARDS
MARTIN ti. SIDOR
P.O. Box 1179
Tovra Hall. 53095 State Route 25
Southold, New York 11971-0959
Telephone 631) 765-1938
Fax C631) 765-3136
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
SePtember 9, 2002
6:00 p.m.
Present were:
Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman
Richard Caggiano, Member
William J. Cremers, Member
Kenneth L. Edwards, Member
Martin H. Sidor. Member
Mark Terry, Sr. Environmental Planner
ScOtt Hughes, Sr. Environmental Planner
Victor L'E plattenier, Senior Planner
Carol Kalin, Secretary
Chairman Orlowski: Good evening. I'd like to call this meeting to order. The first order of
buSinesS is for the Board to set Monday, October 7, 2002, at 6:00 p.m. at the Southold
Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time and place for the next regular Planning
B0afd Meeting.
Mr. Caq.qiano: So move.
Mr. Cremers: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor?.
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Chairman Orlowski:. 6:00 p.m. - Hart's Hardware - This proposed site plan is for a
1000 sq. ft. addition to an existing hardware store. The property is located on SR 25, 95'
west of Jockey Creek Drive in Southold. SCTM#1000-70-5-6.2
Southold Town Platining Board Pa.qe Two September 9, 2002
I will ask if there are any comments on this site plan?
Patricia Moore, Esq.: I am here, if there are any questions. I have the elevations.
Everything is ready but, unfortunately, the ARC could not meet until Wednesday so, we
are scheduled to be there for a Wednesday meeting. So, this will have to remain open, I
guess, until we get their comments which we hope will finish it. The DOT - we have the
approVa by Way of a!etter W~ are in the process of getting the bond to comply with the
DOT, requirements ,of~tb~ m:surance at~d the bond. East End Insurance wdl be getting
the 5ohd: It WaS. ~UpI~0S~ to b~ today but it hasri~t come yet. S0 tha~ too, will be
'fot~farded 0'n -eV~hing, is r~dy; th~ package is dong, am just waitir~ for the bond.
Chairman Orlowski: O.K. Any other comments on this site plan?
Patricia Moore, Esq.: Did you want to look at the elevations? If you want, I have them
here. If not, then -
Chairman Orlowski: No, Pat, you'll do fine at the Architectural Review, I am sure. We
will wait for their report. Hearing no further comments, any questions from the Board?
Hearing none, I will make a motion to hold this hearing open.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in
favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Cagg~ano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sider.
Mr. Odowski: Opposed? The motion carnes.
Chairman Odowski: 6:05 p.m. - Aliano, Nicholas - These amendments modify the
Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions, dated March 31 1993, as they pertain to
Lots 7 & 8 of this approved subdivision. These amendments affect the proposed
Grace's Place Nursery School common curb cut requirement on CR 48, and the
relocation of the common driveway which provides access to the subdivision lots. The
subdivision is located on CR 48 in Peconic. SCTM#1000-74-4-(4.1-4.6)
Are there any questions on these amendments, modifying these amendments?
John Skabry: Chairman Orlowski and Members, thank you very much for giving me the
opportunity to speak to you tonight. Let me preface this by saying that, once again,
reiterating there is absolutely no need for this project in this Town. Already we have 52
openings for child care ~n this Town and, at a sliding scale, migrant farm worker's
children would have to pay nothing for that service. This is nothing but greed we're
talking out - to build something and to buy something. The driveway that we're talking
about ...(inaudible tape) which exists now on paper - and, stop me if I'm wrong - was
Sduthold ToWn Planning Board
Page Three
September 9, 2002
Sold to the Town. The building rights were sold when they sold it for Four Hundred
Thousand Dollars in' Development Rights to the land so the property cannot be
developed. It can o¢ily be farmland .... (inaudible tape) to Peconic Land Trust
...(inaudible taPe) the,figu, re, but it;s close to One Million Dollars. That's one Million
Four Hundred Thousand DO[Iars for the prope'r[¥ which can only be farmed on.
' six hundred feet closer to the i.ntersecti0n which
· is a dangerbus
She makes
nts to
here
nakes
the
'PieCe .:.(tape inCudible) 150' from Henry's
is ~ i£'s .tHe only g~ls station f¢oCn Riverhoad,
some sbluti0ns: M~ve tO anoth?r area where a commercial operation isviable. That's
why We h*a've zo. pigg; teat s ~/hy we have Agncultqral D~st.r¢;ts. Ashlar'as the property
l~'eing lan~d]oo~, ~ belJ'bve~th~t,it% [andlocked right now. T~eYe is rio'driueway for it. Am
Chairman. Orlowski: Well, there is access over the Aliano property. That's what these
amendments are changing right now.
Mr. Skabry: All these Development Rights were sold to the Town -
Chairman Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. Skabry: Including the driveway?
Chairman Orlowski: The driveway goes with it but Mr. Aliano is changing that right now
to amend those covenants, allowing access to the last two lots - offthe ast two lots - to
the last two lots.
John Skabrv: So the lot is landlocked now ...(inaudible) where the Development Rights
have been sold, right?
Chairman Orlowski: This won't be on that. This wil De on those two lots that are left.
John Skabry: I am talking about the existing subdivision driveway is six hundred feet to
the west.
Chairman Orlowski: Right.
Mr. Skabry: And it no longer exists because it can't be built on.
SOuthold Town Planning Board Pa.qe Four September 9, 2002
Chairman Odowski; Well, that driveway will exist for the other six lots. That driveway is
.~till ther~e, but these six lots - you are right - have been pumhased through the Town and
I don't know how that was do-ne but it has nothing to do with this Board. O.K.? We are
just looking at two lots there now and this amendment change, changes the access
giving right bf access to Route 48 for lots, I believe it is Lots 7 & 8. Th s s an
am~nd~e~nt~ ~hange. T'h!s ha~ also been ~'eviewed by our Consultant and approved by
bur Con~i~t :and i~;s ~r~¥ ur~de~standing they have a So gotten permiss oh from the
C~at~ty f~r.t~e cu~'bcut a.r~ that.~s already ~amped and put on. tl~e. map.
~ohn Skabry:,Are they looking at other ac. cess points for this~ Project? Have they come
td YOU witE~6y, ~"iCtOr, o~ ~6Od~ on ~he Board? Have theY pr(~osed any Other access
to'~t-fe ¢~-(~je~t~)
Chai~rman Orlowski: There's not many other places you can go.
John Skabry: There certainly are. I've walked the whole area I have lived there for
thirty-two years; I know how to get around the back of Peconic. Present~y, Morris'
Cesspool service - he, is in the back o~ Brower's lsp?) barn - o.k. - and he has access
from Pecor~ ~c Lane. He is less than 150' from their property line. All they have to do is
e~en~ that L RR ~'ight~of;way where the old section used to be and the siding [o the
railroad -'.o.~. ~ right along the railroad tracks, you can drive on a public right-of-way
from Peconfc L~ine We;s~ to.150' of theirpr roperty line. There's nothina but ...(tape
inaudible) ir~ {here right noW...(tape ina~dil~le) 'weeds. All that woul(~ have t~) I:;e done is
clear itout. That WOuld put,ail the traffic out on Peconic.Lane, which is shortly goin~ to
have a traffic ght I hope you're not §o:in§ to approve this project in the first place. You
see, I don't eveh thir~k;they'.ve g ven much thought about wh~re it's going to be ...(tape
inaudible~ d~iveway or,anything . .(taPe inaudible) thirty.two years and I'm the guy
who's go n'g to have to~:try to get out on that corner after that UdVeway is in place.
The Second'chOice would be Horton's Lane which is another road that is marked right
adjacent ju:st to,the east Of !he Amoco Gas Station. Paul's LaRe goes south from 48 and
it's beyond Hen)-y's Lahe intersect on and it meets up w~th that right-of-way that I'm
taikin~ abou!, ..~.(tape inaudible) right-of'Way through that proper~y ...(tape inaudible)
Henry's Lane intersection.
Chairman Orlowski: Well, this is one thing you have to understand. They have gotten
[he use for what they have applied for. They're coming in. They've gotten the use to
access onto County Road 48 from the County. So they can do that. And they have it.
Our Consultant has reviewed it and our Traffic Consultant has rewewed it and he said
there isn't a problem. There's not much else left for us to do. You can't say that now
you'd rather we come from the Railroad side. They've gotten their approvals and their
permits and everything they need.
Unidentified Speaker: So Benny, in other words, this is a done deal?
Chairman Orlowski: All I'm saying is that they've gotten all the approvals they need an(~
this is all we can do. You've got to understand that this Board - you have the right to do
Southold Town Planninq Board Page Five September 9, 2002
certain things with your land, This Board is here to ap .p, rove the site plan. The book that
We ~e~d has certain elements in (he site p an and the~/ve ~eta of thoSe e ements,
'ifTclUding the (~urb cut f¢em the County which they nOw have. They have the Health
DiePart~ent aPprOval. The; use was granted Th s Board did not grant that use but we
ha e to look at ~t with that use on it and that s it. We can t do anything else here.
John~Skabry: So,.the curb cut is the only thing they needed from the County and then
[h:e ~lann~g Bdard has to a~ptbve their site plan.~
Chair,man~Orlowsld: ,Well, theyYe allowed that use so, yes, I mean - you know - we
Can't ;ai-Ditrad y Soy~that jUSt b~cause we may not like it, y~u know:
joe Betty: 'I've li~,ed on Hen .W's.Lane for twenty-seven yesrs and I m against Grace's
P'lace. Do yo~u people real[zb What that corner is like? iDoes a,nYbody go over there
betWeen 7:,30 and 8:~0 ih,.the mornin.,g, and 4;30 and 5:00 at night w th that gas station
the Way it is? Do you know what it's hke - you have two signs on either s de of those
entrances-~ ;"bo ~6t En{er" MOst'of these people go in heading west in the eastbound
lan? ~'0 g¢~.intOth~at ~tat'o~, and vice versa on the other one. How there hasn't been any
acc dents s b, eyohd me. It s a bad a Cea and you re going tO go widen that. You're going
tO have acc'd~.~t~,there. YoU ) ng to have t~ t's go ng to
you've got a
side of
it. These east in that
)se calls, it's pathetic. I
you guyS, yo~'re to make it'worse.
Chairm~in;Orlewsld: Aga!n, you know, we aren't the Traffic Experts. We have a
ffi~(; Expert.
Joe Betty: Well, who's the Consultant?
Chairman Orlowski: The County - it's the County's road. The County has no problem
with it and it's their road
Joe Betty: How can that be?
Chairman Orlowski: They granted it. Again, you're actually talking to the wrong Board.
Joe Betty: Unless they change that median where they widened it, maybe it will work
out different, but it's not. When you've got people heading westbound in the eastbound
lane to get into those driveways, you're going to have head-ohs. As sure as I'm standing
here, it's going to happen. God, I wish you guys would wake up.
Chairman Orlowski: Again, it's not us. The County granted it.
Southold Town Planninq Board Pa.qe Six September 9, 2002
Joe Betty: It's always somebody putt ng the b ame on somebody else. This is the Town.
Why can't'you Say no, we can't put it there - lik~ Mr. Skabry just explained. You've got
So Other Outlets - you've got that back road and you've got the ro~d alongside the ~as
station that they could use. Why the hell do you go put it where you've got a bad spot in
the first place. It's beyond me. I don't Understand you people'S th nk!ng. Can't you tell
the~ Count, ,-look, you're mai< ng ~ mistake. Are you going to,wa tunt somebo(~y gets
later
ito
are
s0rryto say
I'm
C~hairma'n)Orlows~ki: Any oth'b~t COmments?
.John Bokina: 1 live on Henry's Lane across the street from the Amoco Gas Station.
Everything. that was said.at ail these previous meetings, from all of our
econtc res~dents~ dldn t matter. Th~s ~s a done deal. We all know ~t. We were against
G.race's N~rsery. SctiboI frOth'the start don't know who was the b rd bra n that even
thoUght Of som, eth~ng ]~ke th~s for these kids, migrant people, which our kids cannot go
~e!thi~ sc§~o,. ~e'W~ gding t0 pay- our taxes - gon'tog pya for th s'~ Who. s gong to
PaY for tE~, care of th s' p ace?: You know, th s p ace has got to run just like this place -
got to be ~owed, got to be swapt cleaned. I don't know what these people are th nking
of; I'm suri~ {hot'ail of~ou P'ianhing Board Members have nothing to do with this but I'm
sure all of ~,.u Would not like t0, pl. unk th's thing in back Of your yard. We elect public
officials te i1~]I 3w, here we are, fight ng amongst you, the ZBA -
C~)dhcilmen- all of them. I called them all up about this deal. Here we
are. ~oilig tO be a memory. But no, now we want to move the
driveway, g problem. You know this road as well as I
do. Saturday and. come into that gas station - go
on. their bicycles. Have you ever been in
...(i~ a dde over there atthe 7-11. At every corner,
Mr. Chairman, this is not a smart situation - a smart idea for everybody. And I'm serious
about that. This is going to bite somebody in the butt. Really. When this thing gets all
said and done, this is going to be a big issue for this whole Town. Remember that. This
is going to cause a lot of problems and people are going to get hurt. The bottom line is -
we do not want this day care center at all .... (inaudible) the last day it's open space.
That's what we want ~his for. Take the grant and put it towards our school taxes so our
taxes go down Our taxes are definitely going to go up on this. There's no ifs, ands, and
buts about thiS.
South01dTown' Plannin.q Board
PaRe Seven
September 9, 2002
Mr. Chairman and Board Members, t would be apprec ated if you people wou d reject
this GracO s Place Nursery' School and put the m~ney to good use fo'r bur taxpayers.
1'hank you.
Unident fed. Speaker: I live on Henry's Lane. I'm concerned about this situation. I'm
opposed to it frOm the beginning.
Chairnlan Orlowski: Can we have your name for the record, please?
Lori Kalinke: Members of the Board, I would like you to all be aware of how the use of
this inte~se~Ction of this. ?cation of the proposed new driveway site, 600' next to the gas
station, cib~er to Hehry s Lathe will be: 1) Due' to Safety MySelf and my six and a half
year old"son did a isurvey of cars that have entered into this gas statiOn -to the "Do Not
Entbr" - where it says, "Do Not Enter" in a forty mi.nute time zone. Six mOtorcycles and
thirtly~five cars have ~ntered i~nto this illegal side saying "Do Not Enter". Does anyone
Other than!hiysel~ addrmy so~t taken'the lime to do the coun;t on~ a busy day?. This is a
danger f~ n - for cars coming oLlt.of the, gas station - for
ry'S.Lanb. There are days ~Wh:en I ~yait fifteen minutes
at the :an t get a,c,r~s~si I have to wai~ arid wa~t.
ev~r~ ~orsel I~0w, did the Survey on a
- when did
:lay?.
"and
~g, I'd just
opposed from the
; is going
Count how
into a
c/ho lives
AlsO, I just want to let you knew again that I'm opposedi to this from the beginning
because rri~,self canr~o~: use this typ9 of facility. It's only for immigrant:farm wOrkers and
[heir familie~ andr l'ml not able to usethis facility. I have [o find child care elsewhere.
Maybe it w~uld be if you plan on bui ding something like thi~, have it for everyone so
fa~ilit~like that and then I wouldn't mind having my
that the whole Town could use the
tax dollar, s going to s.bmething like this. Iti~ just - I mean you're forc~g me out of th s
Town. I don?t even wa,t to live here any more beCause, this is a disg race and that's all
have to say. Thank you.
Chairman Orlowski: Thank you. Any other comments?
Gary Rempe Good evening, Board Members. Myself and everybody that's speaking
here is going to have to deal with this danger zone every day. I know I've been to
Southold Town Planning Board
Pa.qe Eight
September 9, 2002
different Town meetings in the last several months and I see at times that they'll
eritertain to go look at bluffs or other sites. I'm just wondering - have any of you actually
went down there, spent a half hSur of your time and looked at this danger zone? You're
~gbing to be votin~ ~n it. I mean you'll ~ant to have a crystal clear view. Not just
something on paper. Have you? Have you taken, that time?
Mr. Odowski; I've been there. I think the rest of the whole Board is familiar with the area
0f'~he~'p~E we have 10oked ~at it.
Mr, Rempel~ What do you think?
Chairman Orlowski: What do I think?.
Mr. Rempeh Yes, just your opinion.
Chairman O dowski: Traffic is a problem everywhere in this Town. I can't make those
decisions .because I"m not a Traffic Expert. (simultaneous discussion)
Mr. Rempel: If they had this Traffic Expert - I know if you go to different areas and I see
- don't know the exact terminology they call it but it's a traffic counter. I live - you
know, I've been there the last month. This decision was made since we met last month.
I didn't see nothing (]own there. Wouldn't that at least make sense if they put that thing
down there by that island, you would see how many people are making those turns. If
you had that thing down there, you've seen all these people making these illegal turns,
how COuld you turn around and justify something like that?
Chairman Odowski: Illegal turns is a police issue. I mean, that's illegal. You keep saying
that. That's a police issue.
Unidentified Speaker: NObody gives them tickets. You never see any cops there. In fact.
the ce ps do the same thing. They go through the sign.
Chairman Orlowski: Well, they can't do that. (simultaneous discussion) One at a time.
Gary Rempel: But you don't want to add to the situation and, by doing that, that's what
you're doing. You're just flaming it - flaming the fire. When the decision was made, I'm
just curious because I know Route 48 has become part of the Scenic Byways. Now, I
know this proposed curb cut certainly isn't going to unlock the world of scenic beauty. If
anything, you're going to make it look like up island. More congestion, more traffic and
more accidents. So, l don't know how that decision was made.
Now, the Aliano Subdivision was designed to have a driveway access m a much less
conspicuous place, much further west where it was safe from the intersection, safe from
the gas station and safe from Henry's Lane. So why is that conception being changed?
Why are you taking this thing and putting it into an unsafe situation?
· .Southold Town Planning Board Page Nine September 9, 2002
At Grace'S Place inception, they .applied for a Special Exception. The public was
provided with a site plan to examine before the meeting, the Board of Appeals used
these pla'ns to render their vote for the decision. The plans did not show a ddveway that
would be: placed across frbm my home with street lamps on all hours and lights and
hussars and cars shining in thy bedroom, Changing the Curb cut changes the entire
p~ickage - chatigesthe safety issue. It changes the conception. Changes everything.
This iS not who[the pu'bliC w~ ,Showr~ and this s not What [he Boa, r'd cJf Appeals voted
On', SO, the curb cuftreallY sh~ul~t ~y tho same. The people Of the:com~u;n[tY feel that
the ~B~'.F~ 6f Appe~tl~ ..(fl;aLibiS[e), Grac~ s Place to v~ola~ the T°wd Co, de th~t~says a
'Sbhooi~ ~'ho[ b~e built, ci~~'e to ~ i§~s Statioti .... (inaudible') ~a~th~' Pla.~ir~g ~'d
...!U nfrl~[lgE)[b) fu'~,her m0~en~ert~ 0fthe d?ive~'~ ~a[ p~ts b~sses'w~ y~ng, school
ch~ildren '(~i~e[:;~', a.~.e:xti'e~ly d~hgpjrOus ¢~andifi~.
I appreciate the:Board listbni~.g, tb our,comments Over the last several months, but, once
~gaJn, We; the~cbrd~unity wii]~ha,ve t~ deal With this issue ~-this dangerous issue every
day. We W0UI~ hop'e~that the ~lb~n~ing Board W0uid take Our thoughts and comments
into coti~id~a~i~n and will: take th~firiie to meet as a group at the site after this meet ng
tonight ~hd'th~e ~leci~ioh will be held: open for a future date. Thank you.
Paula Daniels: Good evening. Hello, Chairman and Board, I'm a little new to this
community. I ~oved'hete from a place that I find is a little bit ike this, I moved here from
H wa, and Hawa~ Was ~ke our area - beaatiful and gtowng very qu ck y We had a et
of preblems',hke thrs w~th trafflcand new lots and so forth and we eft that area because
Of what had 'happeh~d to the i~a'nds. I'm here tOnight to speak ~- I live off of Henry's on
a very smalli roa~ ca!!ed :Sound View Avenu6 West and I did nat do the scientif c survey
that my rlei~hbor did:but, on the way over here, I COunted the number of directions that
go through :th? isJand. P~'esen~ly, there are ...(f~aqdible,) directions of traffic all heading
through a ye;~sma l~iS'land that one carw fit through -tWo if you do it correctly. When
you a~ld ;thisl d~'ivew~y, you'¢ei now. going! to have t~r{ differen,t ~litections of cars ail
heading'a! ~,~i'ch ~)th~r ,at e~(abtly the same time. N~ow, I know yOU're supposed to use
your turn sisals an'd I usuaJ!y d~o but, a i0t of tl~e I~eople cpming through, don't and so,
you don'¥knOW rea'ily which way they're going. Yob've got ten directi0n~s and you're
guessing anU: hoping Which way they're going. I de respect that you had an expert study
this. I might ~0pder hC~w much ~me you,studied; th~S. It's been ment~oned,that there
might be,a t¢~ffic light o, ln P~nic Large. I think that peopl~ W It, UnfOrtunately, use this
little isladd a~s a c~u.t,-'thrbagh to ~e whatever thre~e fecon~ls thby thihk they're going to
save on the light. Se, you can ad, d maybe ,tWelve dit'edtfon~ oftr~if~ic. I Understand your
constraints of the Board and their rules and t,h_eir jurisd!btidn but, I wanted .to speal~ to
this. My husband, also agrees. He s at work o'n Shelter fslahd tonight and cou~ldn't make
it. I thank you for listening to me.
Chairman Orlowski: Thank you. Anyone else?
Val Pust: I live on Route 48, very close to the intersection that they're talking about and,
over the years, 've seen so many accidents on Peconic Lane and Route 48. I've called
the fire department and police myself many times. You're just making this thing worse
than it is now. We've had - actually I'm getting tired of having the police helicopter land
Southold Town Planning Board Page Ten September 9, 2002
in front of my house to pick up the injured people. They blow everything; they destroy
everything With t.h,.at wind but, that's beside th'e point. Why are you doing this in a nice
community? YOu re going to turn it into a zoo. Is there any ether way, as Skabry says, to
i!go Out ~h~ bac ,k. wa~? There are other ways to get out of this thing and you people ~ave
:!~to giv~ per~isbion sorflewhete. Why don't you just stop and anything they want in the
iwa~, of vadadceS, jUSt don't give'them anything, Just don't let ~em - put ~p your
obj~ecti?s to'~hese '~hiiigs. it's ridiculous; I'm f~d up. I'm almost ready to m~ve out of this
,~area myself: t~s-tum;!!Tg nto a.- a beautifu httle co~munlty~ Pecon[c - arid r~ow
~tucning (nto a I'~:~!ind'~stdal park You guys should do son~ethin~ to stop ali of this,
.(inauaib e~b, ~ng,a~i ~this pf~p~rt~ and: the ~enic Z°nes are disappeari'ng - selling
us dO~ the;.r'~er~ ~f~atCS ali f'Ve got to say.
G~0rqe VioJa: I li~/e on He,nCy~s Eane. I remember at the last meeting that th ere was a
request fro~'~br.gt~0~'~ she whetl~er the Zoning Board of Appeals would hear - and
think that td'e'Bbard W~g;oing to ~sk the Town Attorney whether that was possible. I
don t knowwhat happened ~th that.
Chairman Odowski; Well, the question was -
Victor L'Eplattenier: He said that it wasn't necessary to go back.
George Viola: It wasn't necessary. O.K. I still stand opposed to this and, basically, that's
all I have to say. Thank you.
Margaret Skabry: I live on Henry's Lane. I don't have anything written down. You don't
really want to hear what I'm thinking right now so I'm going to try to keep it a little nicer
than what I'm feeling.
Every time we come to Town Hall about anything, we have to hear about it's not that
person's fault, it was the one before us. It takes a lot for us to come down here. We
know we can be misquoted, if we come down very often about the same thing. We're
coming down here because we live here; we care about here and we're not making a
penny off of this. The more people that you can run out of this Town by allowing the
things that you are doing, the more money for the real estate people- and we know
who they are - make. We don't get much out of it. We lose our families; we lose our
friends all the time to the garbage that goes on in this Town. We come here to you
because the Zoning Board of Appeals held a meeting at 11:00 at night the first time
without notifying everybody they were supposed to. That was not the way it was
supposed to be done. Being that they did it that way, they should have, when it came to
you and that was brought to your attention, they should have been made to start from
Square One with everybody notified that should have been notified but, it wasn't done.
You went back and asked them if they thought maybe it wasn't such a great idea to
build a school next to a gas station and highway and railroad tracks. They said sure, it's
a g teat idea and you're powerless. We're told you're powerless to do anything. Mr.
Goehdnger - or whatever his name is - it's just my opinion, I don't need a lawsuit or
anything. This is my opinion Mr. Goehnnger is like Adolph Hitler. He makes the rules
and everybody suffers. There are people in this Town who have had legitimate things
SOuthold Town Planning Board
Page Eleven
September 9, 2002
come up before the Zoning Board and been put 0fl for years, fthey are lucky, only
'once. This thing - I'm not quite Sure how long it took from the time Mr. Murphy
p esented it untd now. [ m not clear on dates but I know this fast tracked. Your
Consultant should, be ast~amed of h rose ffor saying that he Studied th,a_t curb cut and it's
fine; '~hat the six year 0Id and his mommy can count cars and realize it s not fine. The
OoDsu tant Shou!d apo 0gize to every c t zen of th s Town for takinav a .Davcheckz . I don't
,~tnow why we ha'Ye so ¢nan Boards 'f on one cai s the shots The ne' t uess
~ ,.~ ~ . ,.~,., Y_ . y, ~. , , , xt hng, g ,
it 9oe~ to the ~i~dJ."hg,~a~nt' ;nd they don't even hf31d me~fings jke this where we
°Sa~ be ~ld'.Wb,~e;..re~it~;~Si--~' But We have {0 Shove it tO. you
When Mr. Beth
for
want to do
Wf
who are not c
an
ha~e
this di
inau~di
th~
from it-
that ~
tape
was, in m)
~ have to sleep with what you do, I feel bad, in a way,
md you're good people and you
[ doing er~ough, You're not doing anything.
this Town to turn around to the Zoning Board and say
do th~s. You can't stick kids in a school next to
The supreme part
goes
And I'm very sorry;
.~ considered agd-
people
little citizen bom in
give, us the cheap
~. their p~Oflts. I can't fund
)ther party dinners. I
.be in if they're honest
~nt. Not. t~is privilege
but you could
the Fei'son who presented
Lhat there was a time constraint .... (tape
people who don't live
age~nt to purchase
~ther towns to
three, houses away
not. the metal
;. You h~ar ittime
should be
tax money, All of the time
e) an~th ng out of ~t (lnaud ble
given to someone wi~o he d a public off[ce, ~t
go get this ball Coiling.
In the years that we've ~ved here, S<)uthold has ~)een really proud of itself. Southold was
above so many other th, ings, litt!e things. Well, guess what? We were above the other
places; we were above Greenp0rt and a I of the pr0b ems that they have with their
drugs. I was tbld bythe Principal and the Superintendent,one time, Southold kids
couldn't get head lice because they, were Southold students. Mattituck could get them;
Greenport could get them. Our kids couldn't get them. That's the attitude that went
Southold ToWn Plannin.q Board Pa.qe Twelve September 9, 2002
around in Southold but guess what?. The Riverhead kids got the head lice; the
~Greenport. kids g~t the head lice Greenport is moving up. Riverhead was into erant
~nough fo ~top ~race's Disgrace .... (inaudible tape) in their tOwn .... (inaudible tape) the
~Pportun ty to move in with an0th'er church and share the facilities and they wouldn't do
i~ becau~ theY could only do it if they build a new bu ding. So, they come out here.
don't kriow how som'ebody can get the ear of a Zoning Board (inaudible tape) playing
field ... ever since
to
If
bb
going to be sub.'d. Well. guess what? You're going to you want
to be suod by al~ ouLside interest o~.~lo, yOut, vant to 5e Sued. b,y,l.~ro people you go tO
church with. ydu.r kids go to school with. you march iA p~'ade~ wiLh,? Who are you
representing? Wi~'o is th.~L Zoning Board representing? Yg~ .Lh;ir~k of tho people you've
driven.out~ol I. hi~:TOwn b~ net ~ettirtg ~;ont'rol ol [hat Zon~g.~e.. ard o[ Appeals; it's
somebody;pullin, g'th.b rings up short. ¥0u'ro going,to 'roll 'r~e at the end of this, it's a done
dbal. You ex~laii~ tO me ho~¥ r~y tax mOn6y again go,es tb buy ..(t~pe inaudible) lots
v~ith those.ror~ds. Uut no~ il.'s agriculLutal so tl~Os.'e, roads s, hb~l:dn~t counL But Mr. Aliano
· ,(.tape distu'rba:.hce~ put'a~otllor cur. b;,cut'in. Sp'nfi.ebo~/'.~ g~t tg h~'ve some.chutzpah
arour~d here..M?. Mu'rl:ihy appears fo be thee orily o'n~ ~t~e.c~g~ - Mrs. Sl~abry chose
to continub~si)eakih~i' wl~ile:l.l~ tape ~h~ge toor~ pl~'ce.) :..M.d,'~e are going u,p. fo~ sale if
this goos thr'dug:h, r,;,llo[e .mbrley I:or'tl~e rbal estates. ~lp~e, djs.'g, race for aur Town. You
dr~ve" our y~ung!peoplo, o?Jt ~/ith. your t~x~s, a ready., ahd...y,ou .Ibt,g~.i~a~]e, ,, , hap.plJn. I nover
thought I v~o~Jld~thinl~ !.h~t Ri~/erhoad was better t~n So,,tt~ld, but they. ye get a Iii.lie
more going. Th~y'~/o got ~oniO Chutzp~}h
I'm really so?y for tlie poslti~ you,re ir~ but, you've got ne idea the position we're in. Do
something~aDou,t it. Ti~nk yOU.
Unidentified Speaker: moved out here about thirty years ago -
Chairman Orlowski: I need to get your name again.
Joe Betty: I moved out here about thirty-five years ago. It was potato farms, cauliflower.
Little by little, it seems, the vineyards moved in. More and more, you see the high-priced
houses go up. Now, you've got the high-powered realtors that are over here now. Now,
I'm not the only one that feels this way. From everybody that I talked to: I get the same
answers. Well, maybe it's different - no, it's not. I can see. What it is now is the
vineyards with their money, the high-powered realtors who are pulling the strings and
you've got individuals like that who are past Town Supervisors getting away with a lot of
it. People are seeing this; they're not that dumb. Believe me. More and more, the money
is moving out here. The money is pulling the strings and you know the same old saying
- money talks but what walks and that's what's going on in this Town. God, I hope you
guys wake up.
Southold Town Planning Board Paqe Thirteen September 9, 2002
,L0ri Kalinke: I just wanted to say again - I just was a little bit confused. I guess you
have determined,, except for this curb cut, decided - this is the firstthat I'm hearing of it
but, I would really like to know still: is this a nursery school or is this a day care center
because, we as the citizens here, still: have not been explained to what exactly is going
fo be located here - if it is goihg to be a d:ay care or if it is a nursery school because
:ithey are as we ti pr'or meet'ngs, ~¢/o d'fferent 'ssues. So; I would still
iii of the other an t we have. not still known
should
children. M~ybe thaL's.a g.reat idea. This
l,ha!, we doh:t neet'J..hOrb bet:a'us~ you. have that
has fi~ty-t~yo availaUle slots that l,hose children'
center insl.oad? Why do they have to,have
Peconic and ruin O~ir Eoautiful acreag'o'that w6're trying,l,O preserve:? [L's a disgrace; it
really'.is arid I jp.$!, v~ant tb 'say agai~ tb'a~ I'h~ opIbose~l to it" and Fm mostly appalled
bec~au.s~ I can't uso the ce'ntbr. You db.n't want.to ha.~e segre"g~rLion go. ir~,g on in this
communiZ~v b~t yo[~'ro c~lling for il.. I ca'n't u.§e., l,ho center. It's only going t.o be tor l,hese
people Lhat a~e~low'inco~me. W~II. guess wha~..?. I'm:.lew incorh~, toq, bull still, can't use
Lho :cen.!.er. ha~/e tO Lra~O[ west to ha~e a job and Lhi~ is. where,.my children go - up
west Wi~ me 5'ocause. I ca'n't,a([ord d,~y, car~) ou.t her~. Mayl~o.il: I ;,,/as Icw income like
these;~o'~.ople. I wo.uld ~ha.ve.' day care, out h~i:,d. Bu.t th~; as~osse~s out hero have smarts.
Rivb, rb.o,~d was sr'qa~t!enb~uj]b to den..y;'il,. ¥~'hy,. Can.'t, v~d,'? ~h,y ~ln't we I.e~k at other
issueS. Therr~wete o~l~eris'su'es from l,He be~inni~a. I cann:obb~,lie~/e I. ha~ now vou're
com~d'.g:~own t~ j.us'l.'d.ec,d.~hg tha~ ~1. s~,go~ng to .iao. a',n tssue~,[~ei:'aus~ of a curb cut What
about~tl'~e cemmun~;t~,?'\A)!)'al.'about t~: @'el,l~p'/-~s tl~at we .b.?Oa:~jht to yon. Nohe of thai.
.. , , ~" · . . .. . ,~ .. . ,~, , .~.;. ~.~ - ,, ,., .. ,. ., . ,
matterS....,. I d~d a ~et!t~:qn. ~¢~ bre. ught [bq p~[lt~on te. you. 'l[l~re,wer.,~) many people
opposea l,o it a~d I'kn'ow: i'l: ;,,~e I~r0ugl~.' !. [q t,~,' pa~b c kRd~,~lge I',h~ sure t'h'ore wou d
be mbr~ Lhar~ e~0u~jti, ¢ii.i~ns 'n th's'~,~-own ~ht3. ~.zould' be'.¢~!e's~),~ a' tlae way from
Jame~p.,prt ou,t to Or~erl!..I.l~:it do nol, ~t~aqt ti~i:s, de.n'~or here. I 'it~ I. s'aJd, I hq jusL opposed to
it and I wish you w~eu[d, ret~onsider. Th~]nk you.
Chairman Orlowski: TO a~swer your questio9, it is a nursery schoo and the gas station
isSUe W~'t~.e'n' off'~e l~le b~caus~ a g~s ~tation cannot build next to a school but it
d0estl'~:~r0i-i~bit'a sb~0i~m; I~ui dng ri~{ t(~ a gas stat on.
Gary RemPel: A nursery school is under three hours. A day care is over three. That's a
New York State Law. So; this is go ng to be open for more than three hours so t s a
day care center. You might e ect to label t - you know, it's ke labeling someth ng an
app e but, 'f 't's an orange, ts an orange. So, there s an ssue there - it is a day care
center, riot a nursery school. There is no Special Exception for a day care center.
Out of curiosity, explain to me the mechanisms of how this works. Curb cut, Department
of Highway. How does that work? Do they send you something?
Chairman Orlowski: No.
Southold Town Planninq Board Ra.qe Fourteen September 9, 2002
Gary Rempel: How does that go?
Chairman Orlowski: They make a separate application to the County Department of
Transportatiof~, then (hey review it and send their engineers out or whatever they do but
they come bal;k and they get a map stamped with a curb cut on it. It's their role. To have
access to any property, ,to have access to any commercial property, they have to get it
from ~e Town, the County or the State.
Gary Rempel: It's amazing how they Sent somebody out there and you can have all
these peeple com'e u-p there that live there and tell you that it's a real issue and you
ha~'e somebody that - almost, in my opinion - rubber-stamper a report and is telling you
that' ('s ¢'.k. It's I!ke y0iJ're standing there and somebody's bering somebody ove~the
head 'and ~lie'y~J'¢ telling you it% o.k. I~t's not- someb0dy's getting beat over the head
afl-d, in tills ~:~tse, ii's us gettlr~g beat Over the head with, this tl~ing. Now, you sam you
~iaS. bne.bf your e×p~t~ - Son~eb0dy on your end - review it?.
Chairman Odowski: iOur Consultant and his traffic person reviewed it.
GaryRemPel; O.K. Just within the last month?
Chairman Odowski: Well, it's in the file, yes. It was done after the -
Gary Rempel: Can I ask, is it all right to ask - did you experience the same situation
'that all of us did when you see what's going on with the traffic or didn't you - I don't
· knoW.
Chairman Orlowski: He's not the expert (Mr. Rempel thought Senior Planner Victor
L'Eplattenier was the Traffic Expert.) I'm not the expert.
Gary Rempel: Oh, I thought he was the expert. Oh, o.k.
Victor L'Eplattenier: If I just - could I just explain?
Chairman Orlowski: Yes.
Victor L'Eplattenier: We have consultants who look at environmental stuff, including
traffic. We i nquired, after the last hearing, what the impact would be about moving the
driveway to line up with the proposed nursery school and the answer was that there
would be no new traffic impacts because of that move. In fact, there would probably be
/ess because the subdivision had eight lots; now six of them are never going to be
developed so the total potential traffic impact would be diminished and the fact that you
move it to line up with the school did not create any new hazard. That was their report.
Gary Rempel: thought I read in the papers that there was actually a higher impact due
to Grace's Place than the subdivisions - higher traffic impact. Do you have a copy of it?
Is it possible to read part of it? mean, we're here. Just to satisfy us, what the person
: Southold Town Planning Board Page Fifteen September 9, 2002
said. You're telling us no, but this is like the man behind the curtain. We're just being
told no and :coh~e in aniJ read it,
Chairman Orlowski: It's in the file. I mean, it's been there.
Gary Rempel: Yes, I just haven't had time to get down there. Like I say, we have other
things in our lives and stuff. So, is it possible? Could you? Would you? No or-
Chairman OrlowskJ: We're not making it up, I mean, it's in the file.
Gary Rempel: I know.
Victor L'Eplattenier: You're welcome to come take a look.
Gary Rempel: Alright. You don't want me to read it now? Part of it?
Chairman Odowski: What is it -
Victor L'Eplattenier: I think it's actually in the file - a one page report from Nelson and
Pope which talks about the impact and it basically says what I said.
Chairman Orlowski: Can you find it?
Victor L'Eplattenier: I'll show it to him
Gary Rempel: Alright. Thank you.
John Scabry: It just comes to my mind that, within thirty days of the last meeting, this
Consultant has studied the intersection of Henry's Lane and the proximity of the new
driveway coming in within one hundred feet of it and he's able to ascertain what's go~ng
to happen over the next eleven months of the year?. He knows what happens in the
snow. Did he make a visual inspection? We live in this Town. I don't know where the
Consultant is from. I know that the owners of Grace's Place, Agri-Business
Development, is a corporation in Schenectedy, New York. Their representative is here.
Their attorney is from out of town. I'm not sure where in Nassau County. These people
wil build what they want to build and then they're gone. I'm not sure where their
consultant is from Does he have to travel on 48 every day to work? I csn't understand
how within thirty days ...(tape disturbance) perhaps within thirty days. Maybe he knows
this area real well and he can ascertain what's going to happen over the next eleven
months or the next ten years, as long as I hope to live here. But, that's not what I got up
for really .... (tape disturbance) he didn't have the contents of my letter so he gave it to
the New York State Office of Children and Family Services ...(tape disturbance) is the
Commissioner. This letter is from Suzanne ...(tape disturbance) who is the Director of
the Bureau of Eady Childhood Services up in Albany. The reason I brought...(tape
inaudible) if it's going to be a nursery school which was presented to the Zoning Board
of Appeals and to you folks ...(tape inaudible) Eady Childhood Services licenses all day
care and nursery schools in New York State. She told me that a nursery school is three
SoUthold Town Planning Board Page Sixtee~
September 9, 2002
hours or less a day. You ¢night call yourself whatever you want to. If you have children
n more than three hours a day, you are a day care center as per the licensing of New
York State .... (tape inaudible) I didn't get an answer if this is going to be a nursery
school or it's going to be a day care center .... (tape disturbance) build a hardware stere
and then build a ...(tape disturbance) in this Town ...(tape disturbance) build a nursery
schoo. I and...(ta?,e disturbance) build a day care center .... (inaudible tape) build a
nursery school. Its goin~ to turn: out to be a day care center .... (tape dJsturbar~ce) recent
cOrreS~ndeng-'e :of GovernOr Patakj .,.(lengthy period, of inaud~ible tape) t,o observe ~hat
i~s,beingib.uilt ~roperly irt ~'e'p~'oper ar~a, Is it a nursery school or is it aday care
oent:~r?. ~an I ~et an ~il~Ver fro~ somebody on [he Board?
· Cl~airman Orlo,wski: Nursery school.
JOhii Skabry: So, it's going to be three hours or less a day?
Chairman Odowski: That I'm not familiar with. I don't know if anybody here is. The way
our Code reads -
Victor. L'Eplattenier: The Code deals with children six and under. That's the definition of
nursery school, That's what they got the Special Exception for and that's what the use
will be limited to. It's not the hours that define it in the Code; it's the age.
John Skabry: It's not clear to me. Is it a nursery school or a day care center?.
Chairman Orlowski: Nursery school.
Victor L'Eplattenier: We're looking at this as a nursery school.
John Skabry: The State Code says that a nursery school has to be three hours or less a
day.
VictOr L'Eptattenier: They have to meet the license requirements. I'm just saying what
the Code says.
John Skabry: ...(tape disturbance) sixty-five miles an hour... {inaudible tape) that this is
going to be a nursery school. You and I know what a nursery school is and we know
what a day care center and a social service center is .... (inaudible tape) day care
center. Am I right or not, Victor? There is nothing in the Zoning Code that you can apply
fo~' a day care center in this Town?
Victor L'Eplattenier: Ben, do you want me to respond?
Chairman Orlowski: Yes, please.
Victor L'Eplattenier: The Code is silent on the definition of a day care center. It does
have a clear definition of a nursery school
Southo d Town Plannin.q Board Page Seventeen September 9, 2002
John Skabrv: ...(tape inaudible) turned into a comprehensive social services center for
migrant farm worker'S (~hildren ..... (tape inaudible) whole project being approved ...(tape
inaudible) nursery scho01?
Chairman Odowski: This won't be operated at night. I believe that's put in the
covenants.
go' You can't pick up these children at 8:00 in
hour the County that they're going to bdng
just the Town. We could never support it. Seventy-six
tape inaudible) leaving the pr?.perty at 5:00 in the
3e headlig.h,.ts gofng into, as Mr. Rempel
~doWs beCauSe ...(tape inaudible) farm
~) 9:00 in the
; children ...
until, I
...(Lapo int'er[erence) for a
Lof'i-Kalinke: I'm sorW. I'm Still a li'~tle bit confused. So, weYe still ~aYing that this is going
to be eno ~stead of a ;day care center So ...(anintelligible) misled from the
b~gm~ ~/as pmp~)sed for a day care center that wou d be operating,
day from 6:0Q a.m. to 6:0;0 p.m. If this is g~ing to be a
at, [was told from NeW York Stye, they dot]t need to
a3/care center does and J W0:uld: ik~ to know where,
'ovides bussing for a nu~e~ school. I've ne'er heard
of Such a,~,h providing for ~ nurSery ~ch(~bl bussing [or children
get ena bus? i don'[ understand, how that's going to
be If it's a I can understand
why YOU ~ .~. But, if you're having a
nut ~sed
come
screel
going
for all
nurse ¢ s
;ir
';iri~rtg; they need
is t~fs wh~t you're
)[.- if ~h'Js is What it's
a nursery scheol where
to six or · gpilig to be
wes misled,
ga
and
front df'th)is. If Som'eene could just answer
Southo d Town Plannin.q Board Pa.qe Eiqhteen September 9, 2002
Chairman Odowski: You ask a lot of professional questions that this Board does not
address.
Lori Kalinka: O.K. Well, no one seems to have my answers and that's why I'm getting
very discouraged.
Chairman Odowski: Right.
Lori Kalihke: I"~e been to many numerous meetings. We don't get any answers. It gets
passed fi'om this person, tO this person, to this person, before the Planning Board. Now,
you're telling me that all these other things have approved except for a proposed site
plan for a, Curb cut; that's the reason why we're here this evening. When did they decide
that all tlte~e other~things had been d,e, cided upon because the public hasn't known
about it, not to my knowledge. It hasn t been published in the paper, nor has it been
~se. Am I going to just wake up one morning ar~o see a brand new
I don't understand. I don't want to wa~ke up one day and
j~. I like to know because, 5eiieve me, I~i-n looking to get
~ going to be he're becau:Se, first of all- lille I said before ~-I
would Iwant to stay in a ne[ghborho~)d that's going to plan
for a citizen:and a taxpayer. I pay
any money or Wha~ver but,
~ute to r/M job ul~ westbecause
~ local here so I c0mmg~e:'~My children go
,st want so~e a'n~W~rs and .fib ~)ne seems to
I need thirst. I~'1 did:n~[ I~ay (ny !aztes,
o k., you: h:a¥~b~t p~d' ~/durtaxes so
have
you ean~l
James Matthews, Ese..: I'r~ from MattheWs ~ind Matthews, attorneys for Grace's Place.
because they were properly brought
u ~ )recess which deals with the use and what I can
tell you is that ( defined under the Southold Town
Code. loard; That's a use issue. We can
~liance with what the Town of
;s and gave all the notice. I respect
~ a democratic society and
ules, law and' complied with every
letter of"~h;e intend to be a good neighbor, a
welcome give us the chance to
you.
Unidentified Speaker: I'm sorry, Benny. I didn't hear - Mr. Matthew's is from what town?
James Matthews, Esq.: I am a life-long resident of the County of Suffolk. I do live in the
Town of Huntington
Southold Town Planninq Board Pa,qe Nineteen
September 9, 2002
Unidentified speaker: I'm confused. I still haven't got a squared-away answer. We still
'don't know if it's a nursery school ora day care center.
Chairman Orlowski: It's a nursery school. This hearing is for the changing of the
covenants, amending the covenants.
Maraaret SkabrV: I have a couple more questions. One time I said if it's duck, it's a
duck, O:K.? If it's,a nursery school, ft's a nursery school. If it's a d~iy school, it's a day
'SChooL Who i~ going to s~nd there and make sure hoW many hours those kids are in
~he buil;di.ng? Which or~e of you ~edple are going to deal' with it?. Or the Zoning Board of
~Ppeals~'~ho ii VOlL~nt~e~ ri~j?
Ctiafrmar~ Orlowski; It won't be us.
Mar.qaret, SkabrY: I know. An'd guess who is going to end up doing it? I know that the
fJ rst time that the nOtiCeS went out from the Zoning Board of Appeals, not all of the
people were notified. I challenge you now to turn it back to the Zoning Board of Appeals
and hav~ them go I~ack to square one, have them send out the not c~ of a meet ng
about thi,~. A~ybody got the chutzpah?
Mr. Ca.q.q,ano: Can I just make a comment?
Mar.qaret Skabry: Please,
Mr. Ca,q,qlano: I hope no one takes personal offense to this but, we've been listening to
a lot of things thrown at us and I just want to make a comment that I don't think it's a
matter of chutzpah or not chutzpah - it's a matter of law. We were appointed to this
Board and sworn in. I will stand behind the Constitution of the State of New York and
the Laws of the ToWn of Southold. That's what we have to do.
Margaret Skabry: Right.
Mr. Ca,q,qiano: We have books that Victor has copies of that are this thick. People have
individual property rights to do what they want with their property within the confines of
that book. Once a decision is made, that this is what you can do with your property
according to a Board, that has nothing to do with this Board, has nothing to do with the
Town Board. It's set up by the State - the Zoning Board of Appeals is a State Agency, a
State set up agency; it's a State Law -
Mar.qaret Skabry: Right.
Mr. Ca.q.qiano: We have no control over them. Once they make a decision - and I will
take Mr1 Matthew's word and I will take Gerry Goehdnger's word - that the property
public notices were sent out, Otherwise, it wouldn't be here, Now, what you may think is
proper pubiic notice and what is legally required may be two different things, I won't
argue that point but I'm sure they met the letter of the law. The sign on the road -
there's a s~gn on every piece of property - it's posted, This big. I have one down in front
S0uthold Town Planning Board Page Twenty September 9, 2002
Of my house on some property that's being developed. The s gn is this big. That's what
-:it is. So,.0.ur job is to take a look at what we have in front of us from point of view of site
-plan. we have consultants We ask to look at it, from environmental, traffic, safety points
of view. We have the Building Department who looks at it and certifies it that, yes, it
meets the COde: We. have our own Site Plan Reviewer who look at it for set-backs, yes
-we have landscaping, .yes - we have this, yes - we have that. We have the State
DOT who says this is ~ Jrb cut. We have the Department Of Health who says,
fop
,~ law
] I'm sure
1
about
to follow
r' appointed -
18
guys may
ab~at this issue -
Mamare~ Skabrv: Well, yes it's our wallets.
Mr. Ca(~qiano: It's my wallet, too. I'm going to pay for it.
Margaret Skabry: ...(tape interference) Murphy's tax .... (tape interference)
Chairman Orlowski: Hold it. Hold it.
Margaret Skabry: ...(tape interference) Now, I shouldn't say that. O.K. I'll apologize. I
don't mean it but I will apologize because that wasn't a nice thing to say.
Mr. Cagq~ano: Can I finish?
Margaret Skabry: Sure.
Mr. Cag.qiano: So, the bottom line is, we have to look at what they proposed to us as an
applicant, compare it to what they're required to do in terms of what they proposed and
make a decision. And, according to the people we rely upon to make those decisions -
our professional staff and our consultants - they have said that they have met all of the
requirements that are in that little book that we need to follow. So, I don't think we have
a choice, legally, to say no. That's because we live in a society that's based on rules
and codes and we follow the rules and the codes.
Margaret Skabry: We use them. They are used.
Mr. Cag,qiano: Of course.
Mar.qaret Skabry: They're not followed. They are used and abused.
Southold Town Planning Board PaRe Twenty-One September 9, 2002
Mr. Ca'qoiano: I'm not going to get into a debate about -
Margaret/Skabry: From our perspective, my question is: when they sent out the first
notification, they put the board up in theweeds and they sent the letters out to the
people. The peOple that are supposed to be notified - it's like within certain distances or
Something - on:e of them wasn't notified.
Chairman Odowski: were you notified?
Mar.qaret~$kabry: No. We wouldn't have to be. We're doWn Henry's Lane. These are
people UpOn the high:Way th~at were hot notified. One person was not notified. That was
a!the getgo, it n'eyet should have gone through and that meeting was h.e. ld at 11:00 at
r~g§t. Obly o'ne 'pet~On sh0wed~ up and they were new in town and they didn't know
wh,~[ wa~'~oi'~g Oi~',:Th~y got it ~)lind sided. So, if proper nOtification isn't given out at the
b~gi~nitigi anf;l the~eiare laws that you have to follow and ru!es you have to follow,
woald it' i5-e,~oo :rflu'~h to agE- we've waited this long - to wa~t anotEer month to have
th'~ chock the files to see if there was.proper notification of all the neighbors the first
~i~? I mo~in, ifs only anotl)e¢ month .... (tape interference) put up a pr~:fab building in
no'tithe.
Chairman Orlowski: That was looked at and I did talk to the Zoning Board and, as far as
they're concerned, there was proper notification and I did mention to John that that's
What you halve to look into and go find out - my question to them and they gave me the
~nswer they did.
MarRaret SKabry: We tried asking the Town Attorney. Of course, there was no feed-
back, It is our opinion that there is a family that was not notified and, therefore, all of this
is wrong. And, I don't really think that if all the people were notified and understood what
was going on - you can imagine the Zoning Board of Appeals would be having the fun
that you are having with the past couple of meetings with us up here. There would have
been a lot more input for them and they might have actually listened a little bit, for a
change, to the people - being that it is, according to the State, up to the Town to go with
what the people wartt. I don't think it's too much to ask for another month. Look what
happened in one month. YOu got the whole thing approved. Your driveway was
approved we came ,h, ere, tonight to be told. The laws are there. Is it too much to ask for
you to go b~cklanptt~er ¢nonth? I'm go ng to be here for another month. Anybody leaving
bet~veen now and'then? What's the rush?
Chairman Orlowski: How many months has this hearing been open?
Margaret Skabry: I have no idea. I've only been out, what, three months or so? I didn't
have an interest in it because that's all I ~new about it. A year ago I didn't know.
Chairman Odowski: It's been four months. I think we've reviewed a lot of these things.
We've discussecJ it. John personally called me and I've talked to you about it. It's an
emotional issue. Like Mr. Caggiano says, it's a tough issue. Unfortunately, if you believe
that the other Board did something wrong, then it's your option to challenge that.
Southold Town Plannin.q Board Paqe Twenty-Two September 9, 2002
'~MarRaret~Skabry:...(inaudible tape) through, Benny, before we challenge and it's that
much harder.
Chairman Orlowski: It's not ours. Everybody gets the wrong idea. We're looking at a site
plan. We can't look at the use. We can't challenge the use. It's not our job. It never has
been. I've never done it in the twenty some years that I've been here. It would be a
waste of my time and your time if we did something like that because once you lose,
you lose forever. I mean, you just, you don't - it's, ne way to w n something It's the
~vrong BOard. We have to 10o1~ at the site. We're looking at the site plan. Our
'COns~ltants'liave spoken.
(Unidentified manmade a comment from the audience.)
Chairman Orlowski: If you're talking about something illegal, then that's an enforcement
issue, The County - it's their road and they own it. They have said it's o.k. with them.
They're th'e traffic people. It's like pulling into somebody's back yard - it's their back
ya:r(J; ri~'s ~heir property and they"ye got the right to use it.
Margaret Skabry: That's not what I was talking about. I wasn't talking about your
driveway, I was talking about the first legal notices that went out to the people. There's
question as to whether they were done properly.
Mr. Caggiano: Did you address that with the Zoning Board?
Margaret Skabty: How? Yes. He went down ant looked through the letters.
Mr. Caggiano: And? I'm .ust curious.
John Skabry: The fOllowing people got letters from the ZBA: J. P. Krupski, B. J. Realty,
Damianos. Rempel and Aliano. The following people got letters from the Planning
Board: J. P. KrUpski, B. J. Realty, Damianos, Rempel and Aliano as well as Wicks, R. &
S. Feaker, K. & P. Homan and Tartan Oil. Neither party- neither organizations -
Planning or ZBA - notified the LJ. Railroad who are property owners adjacent to that
property which is a failure on the part of the Planning Board, in my opinion. So. we have
four additional people that were notified by Planning Board in certified letters than were
notified by the ZBA. But,, as I said nobody was -the L.I. Railroad never was asked if
they thought it was a proper zone change or Planning Board approval for their property
to speak tonight. They are not here tonight to speak because nobody ever did send
them a letter.
Chairman Orlowski: Hold on one second. (Mr. Skabry continued talking as the tape was
changed.)
Margaret Skabry: My question remains being that there is a question about the
notification process that was done by the Zoning Board of Appeals at the get go. It
shouldn't even be here at the point of curb cut. It should have 9een returned to the
Zoning Board of Appeals where they have to deal with this in person and answer our
Sodthold Town Plannin,q Board Pa.qe Twenty-Three September 9, 2002
Cluestions and I really don't thinkat this point - you know, we have waited four months
~oo but it.waS a year before tha~ when he was at that eleven o'clock meetin~ at the
other Boai-d, ...(inaudible) Build hg Department. I don't think they have meetings like
this where w'e could say to them;what are you crazy so I just want to know why can't
you wait ar~dther month, if'you had wait,ed this long? Wh~.,t. would happen if I go down to
HelieniC P, estaurarlt ..~(i~audible~, there s a sign that they ve been waiting for approval
since 98 for bu!ldjng down t~ere~ what iS another month f0r sqmethmg that the people
of.the-t'own don ~; wa~ht but othe[' p :.co...Pie fi'om outs~de the T0wt~ wan~ us to have for
~hem? Thirty stihkin'g days that is~all ~t is:
Chairman Od0Wsk[; What w;oUld happen in that month?
Mar.qa~re[ Skabry:i'lf w~ can fir~d ou~ that the notification was done incorrectly, then you
would,have to rett~rn i~t te the Zoning I~oard of Appeals. They would have to list it in the
paper. FrOm Square One, we,start all over.
Chairman Orlowski: That's something that you would have to pursue.
Mar.qaret Skabry: Why do I have to do it if you say that they can go put the shovels in
the ground, Benny? It comes to you and it is not supposed to be here. So, you turn it
'back to them. Are you afraid of them?
Chairma~ Odowski: NO, but four months ago when John called me, that is the first thing
I looked into and I was told that they notified properly. Now, if you don't think they
notified properly, it seems like you are on your way to an Article 78 and you can pursue.
c~nnot challenge something that I have already been told is o.k.
Mar.qaret Skabry: Who told you that it is o.k.?
Chairman Odowski: The Zoning Board
Mr. L'Eplattenier: They also sent a memo.
Chairman Orlowski: And they sent a memo - ] mean, it came in a memo.
Margaret Skabry: I didn't get it. My point is how can you go ahead and vote on
something if there is a question about? If you have a question about the gas station and
you send it back to them, and they say, oh yeah, that's fine to stick kids next to the gas
station - no sweat- then, why can't you send it back for this? Thirty days - what is the
problem?
Chairman Orlowski: We did.
Margaret Skabry: Send it back and ask them if this is correct.
Chairman Orlowski: We did and it came back that the notification was proper.
SOuthold Town Planning Board Pa.qe Twenty-Four
September 9, 2002
:;:.Margaret. Skabry: So what do we have to do? What do we h ave to do now, Benny, to
:get ~l~em not to ~o to the point of getting a shovel in the grOund?
Chairman Odowsk[: You always have the option of filing an Article 78.
Ma(qaret Skabry: So, what is that?.
Cl~aii-m~in Orlo~vski: You need an attorney.
i!M~r.~a~ SkabrY: So, We have to spend m'ore money because some people get an
'nside ii~e to the people '~hat want this?
-~Chairm~.n Odowski: What you're asking this Board is to make a decision that it can't.
Margaret Skabry: No, I am not. I am asking you to look and say o.k., this was done
inOor~'edtly. It should never have been brought to us.
~Chairman Orlowski: It was done cOrrectly, as far as we know.
Margaret Skabry: As far as they are telling you.
Chairman Orlowski: Yes.
Margaret Skabry: No. You are going ahead and you are going to do it tonight, Benny,
and you are wrong doing that if we know that they did not notify the same people both
times. Then what - did you do it wrong? Did this Board do it wrong? Did they notify too
many people? Is that the problem? Somebody was wrong and, if you are not wrong,
then they were wrong and it shouldn't go forward tonight. It should go back to them
again.
Mr. Cagg~ano: If I am not mistaken, in the notification there is a minimum amount of
people you must require. You can notify the whole town if you wanted to, but there is a
minimum you must require, but you can notify as many people as you want.
Mar.qaret Skabry: The one they did not notify is directly across from the lots.
rVIr. Cagg~ano: I don't know about that.
Margaret Skabry: I am telling you.
Mr. Caggiano: We have a situation here where the Zoning E3oard has given us an official
resolution saying that they approved a certain use and that's the official resolution that
we have. We have someone coming up and saying they did it wrong. Well, so we have
this. Technically, we have to abide by official resolution of the Zoning Board of Appeals.
If you think that is improper, then you have the option of going and appealing to the
Zoning Board and saying we think you did it wrong, And that goes back to what Benny
said - yo,~ have an Article 78; you are in Court and it goes on forever.
SbutholcJ Tdwn F~lannin.q Board Page Twenty-Five
September 9, 2002
:Mar.qaret Skabry: Isn't it kind of like the Zoning Board is a closed book? Can people
approach it?
Mr. Ca.qgiano: I try not to get involved in the Zoning Board.
'Mar.qaret Skabry: And there's a reason for that.
!'Mr~ Ca~iano: They ace a separate, individual, independent body created by the State
that we have r~Othing to do with except we have - there are many times when ~hey do
~[hings-~that this'whole Board 5-0 would have said absolutely n'o way,
Margaret Skabry: Well, power corrupts. It does, especially when you have exclusive
power.
Mr. Caaaiano: I don't want to get into stuff like that. This is not the place for that.
Margaret Skabry: I know that you have held this over other times when you have had
questions .... (inaudible) you, being that we are raising these questions, if you hold it
over until we look into it - until we get a lawyer or until we can ask the Town Attorney
and we can have him show us Where it says who has to be notified.
Mr. Caggiano: Well, I don't want to be facetious, or make your argument seem not to be
as important as it really is, but it has been four months and when Benny spoke with
John, you could have done that four months ago.
Margaret Skabry: So, what? ...(inaudible) thirty years big deal .. :(inaudible)
Mr, Caggia'no: I am not trying to argue with you. All I am trying to say is government is
difficult, as you know. processes get involved and convoluted and we have to do what
the book says or else we are not upholding our obligations to the office we swore that
we will Uphold.
Margaret Skabry: E:)oes it go back to what I said before - somebody is going to get sued
and you don't want to be the ones?
Mr. Edwards: We have been sued many times.
Margaret Skabry: know. I know but it hurts after a while. It is kind of like giving yourself
shots for diabetes and stuff. It hurts like -
Mr. Caq.qiano: No, it's just another one on the list. That does not phase any of us
anymore. I am just speaking for myself. It is just another one on the list.
Margaret Skabry: Just because, basically, you don't give a damn anymore.
Mr. Ca.qgiano: That's not a fair statement.
SouthoId Town Planninq ~B0ard Pa.qe Twenty-Six September 9, 2002
,.Chairman Orlowski: That's not so.
Mar,qaret S~kabry: Yeah, I think it is. At this point, that is the way I feel but, you know,
... (inaudi'blel it's been nice talking to you. I'm sure you're a n ice bunch of people and
'stUff but, you know, I Sure hope I never get on a Board and have people coming to me
feeling de§perately that you could have given another month and I just have to tell you,
uh.
:Chairman Qdowski: I don't think you would want to be in our position at all.
.Margaret Skabry: No, I would want nothing to do with politics - nothing. It is not a good
place to be.
.c~hairman OdOwski: It is not politics; it is a code. It is your code; it's your rules. It is your
'laws. You can come and change them. You can talk to the Town Board and do it. We
have to go by the book.
Margaret Skabry: I can't change them in this town. Real estate can change them in this
town.
Chairman Odowski: You can change them. You have to go there and, yes, you have to
put in time to do it but everybody can. That's why we vote and that is why we are here. I
don't agree with a lot Of things and maybe I don't agree with a lot of things going on
here tonight and it is a sensitive issue and maybe I feel just like you do, but I just - when
we are just looking at the site plan, we can't sit here and make things up to knock things
over and throw things out because, if we could do that, everybody would be scared to
come here or we would be locked up somewhere.
Margaret Skabry: I can't believe it has reached a point where you are go~ng to go ahead
with it tonight.
.Chairman Orlowski: It has been four months. It's not a point; it's been four months, it's
been four monthS and I have had discussions with your husband -
Mrs. Skabry: If it was one hundred years, I would still be disappointed [n you.
Chairman Orlowski: - and we have talked about it and you have had as much time to
work on this as the applicant has almost
Mar,qaret Skabry: I'm not a lawyer. I don't have the money to hire the lawyers.
... (inaudible) counted on and 1 am not getting paid to do this either. This is not my
career; it is just my life. Well, thanks for your time. Don't want you to lose too much
sleep tonight but I really don't appreciate what you are going to do. Thanks.
John Skabry: Benny, the attorney, Mr. Matthews from Huntington, said that he wanted
to work with the community. Nobody has looked at this right-of-way issue. I
... (inaudible) at the get go. It is about the right-of-way issue. It is a hundred and fifty
SbU'~hold ToWn Planninq Board Paqe Twenty-Seven September 9, 2002
That is all they need - that right-of-way along the railroad and they are on to a
'public right-of-way.
Chairman OrloWski: John, you are going to be sending the traffic somewhere. I mean,
ithe traffic - What you are talking about - you have to send it somewhere. We do not
condone right-of-Ways and right-of-ways are tough to get public access to different right-
of~ways.
One point four million dollars that they got for selling the Development
the prop"ed:y - Peconic Land Trust - they got one point four million
need a huhdred and fifty.feet of right-of-way along the railroad. If we
is. senseless to have a Planning! Board because that is part
to be, how th(~ ~ te S go ng to 'be designed,
~e can, funnel the traffic to Pe'conic Lane, which is
t~affic light according to the County because of'all the. deaths
the Children Will be safer. The' children ...(inaudible) traffic light.
Chairman Oflowski: O.K. Any other new comments? Headng none, I will entertain a
motion to OleSe the headng.
Mr. Ca,q,q~ano: So moved.
Mr. Crenlers~ Second.
.Chairman O'rlOwski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sider.
Chairman Orl0wski: Opposed? The motion carries. (The hearing was closed at 7:30
p.m.)
Marqaret Skabry: What was the motion?
Chairman Orlowski: To close the hearing.
I will make a motion:
WHEREAS, Agri-Business Child Development, a division of New York State Federation
of Growers & Processors Association, Inc. (referred to as ABCD) are the owners of the
property known and designated as "Grace's Place", located on County Route 48, 1307'
west of Paul's Lane in Peconic; and
WHEREAS, ABCD is the owner of the premises more fully described in the annexed
Schedule "A" (hereinafter sometimes referred to as the "subject premises"), and has
submitted an application to the Planning Board for the Town of Southold for site plan
approval for a nursery school on the subject premises situated in the Town of Southold,
Southold Town Planninq Board F'aqe Twenty-Eight September 9, 2002
~ t
::.-..~;Coun y of Suffolk, state of New York, which property is further described on the Suffolk
'County TaX Map as District 1000-74-4-4.7 & 4.8; and
i i..,~WHEREAS the subject premises are two lots of an eight lot subdivision previously
~pproved by the P!,~nning Board of the Town of Southold (hereinafter referred to as "the
'cAll,nb SubdiviSion ), all of which lots are subject to a Declaration of Covenants and
Restrk;ti0ns dated March 31, 1993, and recorded in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office
~)n June 4, 1993 a~ liber 1,1.63t, page 638 (hereinafter referred to as the "Covenants and
Re~tridti~df~s"i; WhiCh Cbv~bar~ts an~l J~estdbtion& provide that there shall, be one
;born~0n. curb ?t On Co~ty Road' 48 as, shown 0n. the approved map for all eight lots
~ith on~ cdrn~riion dJiveWay'fot al eight lots [Worry feet in width as shown on the
:appr?,ov .eL:l. rh~p'to be rttai!rita~ned in equal propbrt rns. by all [0t owrLers a~d f~rther that
said' ¢o~¢e.n.~tnts a~d,~rJct~n~ can .b.e.. m0dlfl~ qn!y at t.~e request, of the.then owner
~vith?t~e ~p~'e~l ~6f ~a ;~j~orit;y ~l~s ohe bf the ~[~tlhin9 B~afd Of'the Town o'f Southold
after,, ,a public h~¥mg 'eCl ,ffotice tO adjo~mng properly owners, whos~ co~sent to such
~d.,fi~f.[0~ ¢~,lJ h'~-~' ~,¢d; and r
WHERBAS, the AI~O'D is the owner of Lots 7 and 8 of the Aliano Subdivision, and on
AU~IuSt 22, 200:~ ~h,'e Town Of Southold purchased the Development Rights to Lots 1
~h~gh 6 of tl~e, A jane Subdi~is ,on, knoWn as Suffolk County Tax Map Nos. 1000-74-4-
4.1! t~ro~gh 4.8 a-ndl m0re'fully d:escribed in the annexed Schredu e "B"; and
WHEREAS, the subject premises, Lots 7 and 8 of the Aliano Subdivision, have been
merged 'into one lot; and
WHEREAS, due to the Sale of the Development Rights to the Town of Southold, Lots 1
through 6 of the Aliano Subdivision have also merged under separate ownership from
Lots 7 & 8; and
WHEREAS, in recognition of the aforesaid Sale of Development Rights to the Town of
Southold, the existing curb cu~ in the Aliano Subdivision shall be reserved solely for the
use of Lots 1 through 6, now merged into one lot, and that there now will be a separate
curb cut solely for use of merged Lots 7 & 8; and
WHEREAS, ABCD as owner of merged Lots 7 & 8 requests that the Covenants and
Restrictions be so modified, conditioned upon the issuance of a curb cut permit from the
Suffolk County Department of Public Works and all other required permits and further
conditioned on ABCD receiving final site plan approval; and
WHEREAS. ABCD for the'purpose of carrying out the intentions above expressed does
hereby make known, admit, publish, covenant and agree that said subject premises
described herein in the annexed Schedules "A" and "B" shall hereinafter and forever be
subject to the following Covenants and Restrictions, which shall run with the land and
shall be binding upon all pumhasers and holders of said premises, their heirs,
executors, legal representatives, distdbutees, successors and assigns, as more fully set
forth below and which constitute modifications to the Covenants and Restrictions, dated
SoUthold Town Plannin.q Board Page Twenty-Nine September 9, 2002
;.March 31, 1993, and filed in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office on June 4, 1993 at liber
11631, page 638:
1) There shall be one curb cut on Route 48 for the exclusive
use Of previous Lots 1 through 6 of the Aliano Subdivision,
which have been merged into a single 12.25 acre agricultural
parcel. There shall be a second curb cut on Route 48 for the
exclusive use Of previous Lots 7 and 8 of the Aliano
Subdivision, w,hicl! lots we're merged as requifed by the
Iblantiiiig Boai-d aS part Of the site plan approval for a
I~r0pOs~e~. n~ur{e~-~, School, a use previously approved by
~?ei,a}, Pi~rthil~bt~the Zoning Board of App~al~ of ;~he Town of
S~Old~r; Ai~l~[i~at~ior~ No. 4969.
2) O'~her,th~aa as set forth in paragraph "1" herein, the common
driveway sh(~w~ on the approved Aliano Subdivision
app!i~;able to all lots shall be abandoned; there shall be a
con~on d'dveWay required only for Lots 7 & 8 in a separate
curb cut.
3) These Covenants and Restrictions can be modified only at
the request of the then owner of the premises with the
approval of ~he majority plus one of the Southold Town
Planning BOard after a public hearing. Adjoining property
owners shall be entitled to notice of such public hearing, but
their cohsent to such modifications shall not be required; and
WHEREAS, as a cOnditio~ of final approval of the Grace's Place Site Plan,
these amended De(~laration of Covenants and RestrictionS must be
recorded with the COunty Clerk's Office and the liber and page number of
the recorded document must be noted on the final subdivision plan; be it
therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold TOwn Planning Board approve the amended
Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions and authorize the Chairman to
endorse these modifications.
Mr. Cremers: Second the motion.
.Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwar(ds, Mr. Sidor.
.Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
Southold Town Planninq Board Pa.qe Thirty September 9, 2002
:,,;Chairman Orlowski: 6:'10 p.m. - Floyd F. Kin.q~ Jr. Revocable Trust - Th~s proposed lot
tract 2,699 Sq. ft. from an 8,745 sq. ft. parcel, SCTM#1000-24-2-
:26.3, and add it to a 7,750 sq. ff. parcel, SCTM#1000-24-2-26.2. The property is located
at 225 Private Road #14 in Orient.
Marqaret Skabry: I just want to say thank you for your time.
~!Chairma~ Orldwski; You're welcome. I just want to note that the applicant sent a letter-
i -'~ ~ot the app ~cant sot~ebody ~hat lives down them - sent a letter - William S. Kostasoni
?!(~P;?)'and i~am~ela ~/ale~tihe It Will be p aced in the record so we'l put that. in the file.
,Now, w ]. ask f there are any new comments on this ot ne change.
Unidentified Speaker: I just want to say that I'm so proud of my neighbors. God bless
them and God bless AmeriCa. Thank you.
Chairman Orlowski: Thank you
F~ichard L, ark,.Esq., Main Road, Cutcho.que, for the applicant: This has been before the
.Board. before with the prior attorney who you then requested due to the size of the
prOpOsed two lots'involved in the property - in the Floyd King Trust - to get a variance
due to the area. And, of course there are, as you know, two existing buildings on there.
.The application waS'made and the Board of Appeals did- and know you have a copy
of it -did grant it back in May - did grant a variance approving the lot line change. Just
.by way Of background, the applicant who is the Trustee, is just carrying out the
'prbvisions of the TrUst where the Grantor, Mr. King - Floyd King -wanted these two
lots separated for two members of his family, each with 85 feet of waterl:ront and that's
what the Surveyor, Mr. Lewindowski, did with the lot line changes there. So, I'm here
.prirharily to answer any questions since the ZBA did grant the area thing which you
needed done before you could look at it.
Chairman OrlOwski: Any other comments? Hearing none, any questions from the
Board? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to close the hearing.
Mr. Edwards: So move.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?.
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following:
Southo]d Town Plannin.q Board Pa.qe Thirty-One September 9, 2002
(WHEREAS, the applican,t proposes to amegd the lot line between two improved lots
Tax Map Numbers1'000-24-2-26.2 and 1000.24-2-26.3) where Lot 1 equals '10~449
square fee[ and Lot 2 equals 6,046 square feet, as depicted on the surcey dated June
7, 2001; ancl
WHEREAS, The Town of Southold Zoning Board of Appeals granted an area variance
fo~ the non-conforming 10ts (ApPL No. 5054) without conditions on May 2, 2002; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board acknowledges that the area variance does not
a~thorize Or~ condOne any current or future use, setback or other feature of the subject
property; and
WHEREAS, the lots are improved and therefore Suffolk COunty Department of Health
a'r~d~'O~ Suffolk County Water Authority approval or permits are not required; and
WHEREAS, the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold
have be~rl met; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, do an uncoordinated review of this unlisted action.
The Planning Board establishes itself as lead agency, and as lead agency, makes a
determination of non-significance and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Chairman Orl0wski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Odowski, rVIr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carnes.
Mr. Cremers:
FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant final approval on
the maps, dated June 7, 2001, and authorize the Chairman to endorse the maps.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?.
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
SotJthold Town Plannin~ Board Page Thirty-Two September 9, 2002
Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings:
Chairman Odowski: Perino, Joseph -This proposed major subdivision is for 7 lots on
20.8211 acres. The property is located on the south side of Main Road, 150' west of
Sigsbe'e Road ih Mattituck. SCTM#1000-122-7-9.
This ~_as. a piece of property where the hearing was opened but they could not close it
ahd its ¢i~oI~ tied u p in the temporary mo'ratorium that is now going on.
I would like to entertain, a motion that we keep this in abeyance.
Mr. Cremers:
WHEREAS. the above application is a major subdivision without an
executed Conservation component; be it therefore
RESOLVED that Local Law Number 3 was adopted at the regular meeting of the
Southold Town Board on August 13, 2002 entitled "Local Law in relation to a Temporary
Moratorium on Processing, RevieW of, and making decisions on applications for Major
Subdivisions, Minor Subdivisions and Special Use Permits containing Dwelling Units in
the Town of Southold" and, therefore, no comment can be accepted or action can be
made on this application.
Mr. Ca.q.qiano: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlo~vski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?.
Ayes: Mr. Odowski, Mr. Cagg~ano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sider.
Chairman Odewski: Opposed? The motion carnes.
Chairman Odowski: Island Health Proiect, Inc. - This proposed lot line change is to
merge a 10,890 sq. ft. parcel, SCTM#1000-9-2-6.2, with a 12,565 sq. ff. parcel,
SCTM#1000-9-2-8, creating a 23,455 sq. ft. parcel. The properties are located at the
north corner of Oriental Avenue and Crescent Avenue on Fishers Island.
Again, the applicant is requesting to keep this hearing open. So, ['11 entertain that
motion.
Mr. Cremers: So move.
Mr. Ca.q.qiano: Second.
SOuthOId :Town Planninq Board Paqe Thirty-Three September 9, 2002
i~Chairman!Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
Ayes: Mr. Or[owski Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Sidor.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I'd like the record to state that I abstain for reasons
previously stated.
.Chairman .Orlowski: Let it be so noted in the record that Mr. Edwards abstained for
:rea~;onS previously stated,
Opposed? The nlotion carries.
.Chairman Orlowski: Grace's Place - This proposed site plan is to construct a 7,000 sq.
ft. nursery school facility on a 4.6 acre parcel. The property is located on CR 48 in
Peconic. SCTM#1000-74-4-4.7 & 4.8
I'll ask if there are any new comments on this site plan.
Gary Rem'pel: A little while ago I had asked if you had that survey.
Chairman Orlowski: The letter, yes. Vic, do you want to show Mr. Rempel the letter? We
have to leave it in the file.
Gary Rempel: Can I ask you a question? I don't know if it's -
Chairman Orlowski: Is it a new one?
Gary Rempel: It is anew one. I've got to keep you awake and give you a new one. I
don't know if this is under your jurisdiction. I am just reading in the local paper today and
it was an issue in Greenport about variance approval and one of the things they were
saying, of course, was any building plan that falls within five hundred feet of a recreation
area or state highway or bay has to be approved by the Suffolk County Planning Board.
Was that done to Grace's Place?
Chairman Orlowski: Yes.
Gary Rempel: Was that a separate paper that was in there?
Chairman Odowski: That's separate. That is the Suffolk County Planning Commission.
Gary Rempel: Is it in the file? I did not see it when I had looked.
Chairman Orlowski: Yes, it is in the file.
Southold ToWn Plannin.q Board Pa.qe Thirty-Four September 9, 2002
;Gary Rernpeh It was in there. O.K. Thank you
Chairman Odow~ki: Any other comments?
Unidentified Speaker: All I've got to say is if you guys approve this, you just approved
anOther death trap On that highway with that curb cut. It is so simple to go ~n the back.
pbople are gOing to get killed. It is a shame. It really is. What people will do for money. I
· )~now beca~'~e I see it eve~ry dar~n day.
~Margaret Skabry'. Fli. I am Margaret Skabry, again I do have a quest on. heard at the
end of what.you were reading Jn that already prepared th~ng that the lawyers for Grace s
~lace had:~rid it Said, if they look for access or e~it from it, they w0uid have to notify
twehty peeple?
Chairman Odowski: Adjoining people.
M~ii~garet Skabry: Yes. Where are you going to find twenty adjoining people? That's a
stretch.
Cllairman OdOwski: I don't believe I said twenty. I meant -
Margaret Skabry: It was the number twenty, yes. i'm pretty sure - twenty.
Chairman Orlowski: Adjoining property owners. That's all I said.
Margaret Skabry: Was there twenty - do you have Pindar, gas station, railroad?
Chairman Odowski: I did not say twenty.
Margaret Skabry: Yes, there was a twenty said there. Absolutely.
Chairman Orlowski: I'm sorry but it is not even written.
Marqaret Skabry; You said it. t came out of your mouth. I was sitting right there in the
front. Twenty people notified. If they decided to seek for a different exit.
.Chairman Odowski: Well, if I did, it will come out in the minutes and it will have to be
changed but I don't believe I said that.
Richard Caq.qiano: I think, the point is, if he did say twenty, he meant to say adjoining.
Because in this entire resolution, there is no number twenty.
Marqaret Skabry: mean, how come, you know, we get like six one time, twelve another
time, and then they make it twenty and there are not twenty. I thought you said there
were rules about how many had to be notified
Southold Town Planninq Board Paqe Thirty-Five SePtember 9, 2002
,Chairman Orlowski: The rule is, since I have been here, is just the adjoining properties.
.We extend OurselVes and send it across the street and maybe directly across the street
~)ut I believe the Code just says adjoining.
Margaret SkabrY: Does the Zoning Board have different rules?
Chairman Orlowski: Same rules. And that's probably why we sent out more than they
'did so -
Margaret Skabry: Because they seem -
Chaii'man Ordowski: And another thing - we do not send them, the applicant does.
Margaret Skabry: O.K. Just interesting the way it was changed. Thank you.
John Skabry: You said that you have waited four months for the final approval but the
date of this letter is Only August 29~n from the Engineer and that's not four months.
That's less than thirty days the way I figure it. This engineer sent you this letter -
Chairman Odowski: No, John. That was the start of the hearing process.
John Skabn¢: I am only talking about the resolution that you passed giving them the new
curb cut closer to Henry's Lane. You had mentioned, under that discussion, that it was
four months that they have been waiting but they have been waiting only one month - or
less than one month - for the curb cut for the driveway closer to Henry's Lane, not four
months. And this is one paragraph which says nothing about Henry's Lane or the gas
Station. As Gary said, nobody has been out there to look at it, to count the cars or to see
how many accidents occur'there and what is going to happen in the future. I can't
believe that this Nelson, Pope - this planning and consulting company - can sign their
name to something like that - this Shanna Lacey.
Chairman Odowski: You have to remember, John, they reviewed everything.
John Skabry: They reviewed a piece of paper - that is all they looked at was a piece of
paper. They probably have not even been into town.
Chairman Odowski: They reviewed everything, as they have in the past for us, and it is
a lot of information that they had in front of them from before because they have been
doing work for use for years.
John Skabry: Could you make a survey of this of East Meadow - if you were an
engineer? They just get a piece of paper out of the file. They look at a ma p - a
Hagstrom or whatever they want to look at - and they say we're going to move the
driveway six hundred feet. That map does not show the gas station; it doesn't show the
number of accidents. How could they possibly, within thirty days, say that they have
these engineers - this company from - where are they from, Victor?.- from Melville, NY -
understand what happens at that corner and what this site plan is all about?
Southold Town Planhing Board Page Thirty-Six September 9, 2002
:VictOr L'Eplattenien Could we keep that file up at this desk?
John Skabry: Sorry, Victor.
Chairman Odowski: O.K. Any other comments?
Lori K_alinke: I am just going to comment on the letter myself because I just did a survey
O~Jt there for thirty-five minutes of time and there were almost forty
;ars that went in the wrong way and I am a
my child, I am standing there
wondering when this person actually Physically came out
survey and did he actually stCdd there and count the amount of
cars at a piece of paper and say, O.k., that looks
gbod? lets s . rmeari, I live there. I see wh. at goes on.. 1 can t pull out of my
~Street e~e~?da¥,,a?, based on ~ survey I just did myself - I mean, mayl~e you, don't think
the fiu~mDe~S r~ter, but I do. I' have children growing up i~n this area who sOmeday I
W°u ~ l~e tb ra ~eoat here: ~ a'rfd h~veto try t° biross ~J~is., r6ad and ,..th S is wh;at~.yoa know,
theyiwa~ to prOPOse. If,'th~m~' put a light thOr, e, that is ~0mething 'els~ 5ut'l haVe net
~e,~i'd ~a~hirig.:~U~a,t,tl~a~,y~t.. Bdt; ~gh~ n~)~v, it i~ e d~nger so J am'j~st~Wo~i~eJ'ing when
tffi~ Cei~s~h might' t~a~e dohe that.
Chairman Odowski: A~y Other comments? Hearing none -
Gary Re~pel: I read the letter but it doesn't explain anything how it was done. how they
arnved at the numbers. I mean, it is a shame, when you see a letter like this, it really
doesti't explain how anything was done and it's going dictate to us - the local community
- who spehtl~e tirhe to goout there and live it every day and know that th s is wrong
could'ta~,e you ou~ th'ere right new, after this meeting, and we stand out there and you
would know that itjs.wi~0ng - the traffic. I am not lying; am not manufacturing this. It's
real. So, I don't kdbw how something like that can dictal~e what is going to happen
John Skabw: I would like to refleCt back - I know you were on the Planning Board in the
80's when they wanted to build an airport in this Town, when there were proponents of
an a~rport and they got engineering studies. They spent fifty thousand dollars on
engineering studies to come before this Plannin~ Board, and the Town Board and
explained how poor thi!s Town was going to be without an a~rport. They predicted dire
economic disaster for this Town if we could, not become, part of the nationa~ air
transportation system. Directly opposite has happened and the communities with the
airports are suffering now economically. It is the same exact thing - if I want to hire an
engineering firm to find out the best pi-ace.to build a nuclear bomb factory, and 1 paid
him well, hewill say PeconiC. You and I know what the intersection is like. We have to
vote our conscience tonight. We know what this intersection is like. These people are
not politicians. They are 0nly looking out f0¢ their own welfare and their aeighbors. I ask
you to vote your conscience tonight.
Chairman Odowski: O.K. Any other comments? Hearing none, will entertain a motion
to close the headng.
SoUthold Town Planhinq Board Pa,qe Thirty-Seven September 9, 2002
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr: Cremers: Second.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?.
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chaiti~an OrlOwski: OppoSed? The motion carries.
Uni~10n!irio. d...S. Doakc'r~ I hope you people sleep good tonight. Somebody's going to get
killed on that highway. You, too, Murphy.
Chairman Orlowski: What is the. pleasure of the Board?
rVIr. Caqq~ano: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following:
WHEREAS, this proposed site plan, to be known as Grace's Place, is to construct a
7,000 sq. ft. nursery school on a 4.6 acre parcel on County Route 48 in Peconic; and
WHEREAS, Agri-Business Child Development, a division of New York State Federation
of Growers and Processors Association, Inc. (referred to as ABCD), are the owners of
the property known and designated as "Graces Place", SCTM#1000-74-4-4.7 and 4.8;
and
WHEREAS, a formal application for approval of this site was submitted on June 29,
2001; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental
Quality Review Act (Article 8) Part 617, declared itself lead agency and issued a
Negative Declaration on April 18, 2002; and
WHEREAS, the Zoning Board of Appeals granted a Special Exception for a nursery
school for up to 76 students in an A-C zone on July 12, 2001, Application No. 4969; and
WHEREAS, the site plan, dated 5/9/01 and last revised 8/25/02, was certified by the
Building Inspector on September 6, 2002; and
WHEREAS, the Town Engineer has reviewed the drainage calculations and the
Planning Board has accepted his recommendation for approval; and
WHEREAS, on December 18, 2001, the Architectural Review Committee reviewed and
approved the proposed site plan application; and
Southold Town Planninq Board Page Thirty-Eight September 9, 2002
:iWHEREAS., the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58~ Notice of
:~i~Ublic Hearing has received affidavits that the application has complied with the
~;tiotification provisions; and
WHEREAS, the applicant has requested an amendment to the Declaration of
~ovenants and Restrictions, datedMarch 3, 1993, as a consequence of the Sale of th e
Development R, ighis On [Jots 1 - 6 of the Aliano subdivision in Peconic, which is
~¢!jac6~Cit tb,~h~i~-p~plicants~pa~el andrthis change in 0wnership~caused the common
~dt;iVeway af~0 C~tD"c:dt per~ainlhg'*to Grace's Place (Lots 7& 8 of the subdivision) to be
:~elocated~tb provide c~i~ct accesS, to ~he nursery school; and
i~,~VHEREAS,'the ame,ndment to.the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions was
'~ppceVbd: idy'.the S0u(hb'ld '~0wn ~lanning BOard on September 9, 2002; and
WHEREAS, asa condition of final site, plan approval, the amended Declaration of
Covenants a~nd Restrictions must be recorded in the Cou'nty Clerk's Office and the liber
and page number of t~e recorded document must be noted on the deeds for Lots 7 & 8;
and
WHEREAS, an additional Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions pertaining to the
Gl"ace's Place Site Plan (Lots 7 and 8) was offered by the applicant to further restrict
oi~erational elements of'the nursery school proposed for the site and these have been
aCcePted by the Southold Town Planning Board as a condition of final site plan
approval, and must be noted on the final site plan; BE IT THEREFORE
RESOLVED. that the Southold Town Planning Board grant final approval on the site
plan, dated Apdl 20, 2001 and last revised August 25, 2002, and authorize the
Chairman to endorse the final site plan, subject to the following conditions, which must
be met prior to the issuance Of any building permits:
1. ReCording of the amen'ded Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions
pertaining to the access to Lots 7 & 8 (SCTM# 1000-74-4-4.7 & 4.8).
2. Recording of the second set of Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions
pertaining to the use of Grace's Place site (SCTM#1000-74-4-4.7), and noted
on the final site plan.
3. Notation of the iiber and page number of recorded Declaration of Covenants
and Restrictions on the final site plan.
Mr. Cremers: Second the motion.
Chairman Odowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
South01d Town Planninq Boa'rd Page Thirty-Nine September 9, 2002
Chairrhan Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
, MAJOR AN'D MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET
OFF APPLICATIONS
-~Settlng of Final Hearings:
, Chairman Orlowski: Bur.qer/Kosmynka - This proposed lot line change is to amend the
lot line of SCTM#1.000-98-17 to form two single and separate lots where Lot 1 equals
22 297 squaYe feet a hd Lot 2 equals 36,617 square feet. The property is located at 1900
Pine T~ee ROad in Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-98-1-15, 16 & 17
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following:
WHEREAS, the lots 1000-98-1-15 and 1000-98-1-16 merged pursuant to Article II
Section 100-25A; and
WHEREAS,ithe applicant proposes to amend the lot line Of SCTM#1000-98-17 to form
two single and separate lots where Lot 1 equals 22,297 square feet and Lot 2 equals
36, 617 square feet; and
WHEREAS, The Town of Southold Zoning Board of Appeals granted an area variance
for the non-conforming lots (Appl. No. 5058), with conditions, on July 25, 2002; and
WHEREAS, all of the conditions have been met as outlined on the map revised on
August 28, 2002; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board acknowledges that the area variance does not
,authorize or condone any cuCrent or future use, setback or other feature of the subject
property; ahd
WHEREAS, no structure is proposed at this time and therefore Suffolk County
Departm'ent of Health and/or Suffolk County Water Authority approval or permits are
not required; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, do an uncoordinated review of this unlisted action.
The Planning Board establishes itself as lead agency, and as lead agency, makes a
determination of non-significance and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
S0uthold Town Planninq Board Paqe Forty September 9, 2002
'Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
_Chairman Odowski: Opposed? The motion carnes.
Mr. Cremers: In addition -
;BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning E~oard set Monday,
ib~tober ?~ 2O02~at~ 6:05 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps, dated August 28,
'2002.
Mr. Edwards: Second the mOtiOn.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carnes.
SITE PLANS
setting of Final Hearings:
Chairman Orlowski: Lewis Marine Supply - This proposed site plan is for a 1,400 sq. ft.
warehouse addition and a 4,992 sc~ ft. warehouse replacement on 1.54 acres. The
~)roperty is located at 230 Corwin Street in Greenport. SCTM#1000-48-2-1 & 44.1
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following:
E~E IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, establishes itself as lead agency, and as lead agency makes
a determination that this is a Type I[ Action requiring no further review.
Mr. Caq.qiano: Second the motion.
Chairman Odowski: Motion made and seconded. Any ~ uestions on the motion? Al
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Orlowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
Mr. Cremers: In addition -
E~E IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Southold Towi~ Planning Board set Monday, October 7,
2002, at 6:00 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps, dated May 31, 2002 and,last revised
July 31, 2002.
SbUt~iold Town Planninq Board Page Forty-One September 9, 2002
Mr. :Caa~i~no: Second the motion.
Ch"airman OdowSki: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?.
Ayes: Mr. Odowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Sidor.
'Chairman Odowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
.there is. nothing left on my agenda. There will not be a Work Session tonight because
we halve nothing for the Work Session. If anybody wants to put anything on the record,
'~hey can ~ so now oi' we'll just adjourn the meeting.
Mr. Ca.q.qiano: So moved.
Mr. cremers: Second.
Chairman Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Caggiano, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Edwards Mr. Sidor.
Chairman Odowski: Opposed? The motion carries.
There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned
at 8:10 p.m.
~/~ rilyn 1~. Woodhouse, Chairperson
Respectfully submitted,
Carol Kalin / ~
B~rbara Rudder ~