HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-03/26/2024 PH 1
1 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK
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3
TOWN BOARD
4 REGULAR BOARD MEETING
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Southold, New York
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March 26, 2024
9 4 : 30 P .M .
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15 B E F 0 R E :
16
17 ALBERT KRUPSKI JR, SUPERVISOR
18 LOUISA P . EVANS , JUSTICE
19 JILL DOHERTY, COUNCILWOMAN
20 BRIAN 0 . MEALY, COUNCILMAN
21 GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN
22 ANNE H . SMITH, COUNCILWOMAN
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24
25
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 2
1 PUBLIC HEARING
2 EXTENSION OF MORATORIUM BATTERY
3 ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEM FACILITIES
4 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So the
5 first public hearing that we ' re holding
6 tonight , and I ' m just going to do my own
7 summary here, is on the extension of the
8 moratorium on battery energy storage
9 facilities or BESS facilities . In the
10 file folder here , I have a number of
11 letters . I have a letter that we
12 received from the Suffolk County
13 Planning Commission . I would note that
14 they have recommended that we move
15 forward with a six month moratorium, or
16 not recommend we move forward, but
17 revise our moratorium to six months from
18 12 months . I have a letter that we
19 received from the New York League of
20 Conservation Voters . I have a letter
21 that we ' ve received from our Assistant
22 Planning Director, Mark Terry . And I
23 have a letter supporting this move from
24 the Planning Board . I also, in the
25 folder, have a copy of our LWRP letter,
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 3
1 in support of this , Mark Terry, our LWRP
2 Coordinator . I have a copy of our
3 affidavit of publication illegal notice
4 in The Day . I have a copy of our
5 affidavit of publication in the Suffolk
6 Times . I have a copy here of our notice
7 that ' s been sent to adjacent
8 municipalities . I have an affidavit
9 signed by our town clerk, Denis
10 Noncarrow, that the legal notice was
11 posted on the back bulletin board . Copy
12 of the legal notice , the resolution .
13 And I also have some letters in support
14 of this from the group for the East End .
15 I have a letter from Key Capture Energy
16 recommending that we go with the
17 Planning Commission ' s recommendation of
18 a limited six month moratorium. And
19 that ' s what I got .
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
21 right, thank you . All right . Good . So
22 the record ' s complete . Anyone would
23 like to speak on the Local Law to extend
24 the 12 month extension for the temporary
25 moratorium on the battery storage .
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 4
1 MICHAEL MACCO : Good afternoon .
2 I ' m Michael Macco . I ' m a member of the
3 Citizens ' Committee . There are other
4 members here . There ' s four members of
5 the committee here today . I also think
6 our Chairman, John Congelitos , might be
7 attending via Zoom meeting . It ' s been a
8 very active committee . We ' ve been
9 meeting regularly, weekly, and we e-mail
10 almost daily . We ' ve been working very
11 hard on this matter . And I was just
12 filled in the Board that we support the
13 extension of the moratorium for the one
14 year period of time . There ' s still more
15 work that needs to be done . We think
16 we ' re going to have a proposal to the
17 Town relatively quickly . Before I tell
18 you what we need, I just want to make
19 sure that I introduce Conrad Owen . He ' s
20 another Citizen . Norm Riley, I think
21 everybody in the town knows who Norm
22 Riley is , and Mysel Sand . We know that
23 our proposal is just a proposal and
24 nothing but a proposal . All it needs to
25 be reviewed by the Town Attorney ' s
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 5
1 Office . We ' re also going to expect
2 there ' s going to be an act of public
3 hearings on it that needs to take place,
4 as well as , we ' re looking for
5 substantial input from the fire
6 departments . So we think they ' re
7 getting a proposal before the town will
8 start the process -- will start the
9 process of getting into final form so
10 those public hearings could be
11 scheduled . So we do support a one year
12 extension of the moratorium. We will
13 have something to you probably in the
14 next 30 days .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
16 you . It ' s wonderful . And thank you for
17 your work . Anyone else would like to
18 speak on this public hearing?
19 STEPHEN KIELY : Good evening, Mr .
20 Supervisor, Members of the Board . My
21 name is Stephen Kiely, I ' m a resident of
22 Mattituck . Since two of you are new,
23 please indulge me in briefly laying out
24 the history here . Prior to the
25 moratorium, it was the Wild West . On
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 6
1 May 7 , 2021 , the ZBA approved a Special
2 Permit for a battery storage facility in
3 Greenport . In 2022 , another Special
4 Permit application for a battery storage
5 facility at the McBride Farm off Oregon
6 Road was filed, with associated
7 variances and interpretation, and a site
8 plan application . November 28 , 2022 ,
9 the Planning Board before its own public
10 hearing was even conducted, issued a
11 letter of support to the Zoning Board of
12 Appeals for the application . December
13 1 , 2022 , the ZBA had a hearing on the
14 Special Permit for the battery storage
15 facility . December 5, 2022 , the Site
16 Plan Public Hearing occurred and I
17 appeared at that hearing and called out
18 the Planning Board for supporting
19 something that they didn ' t even have a
20 public hearing on yet . On December 13 ,
21 2022 , I attended the Town Board meeting
22 and strongly urge the Town Board to
23 adopt a battery storage facility
24 moratorium instead of sitting idly by
25 and allowing these structures to
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 7
1 permeate our farmlands and open space .
2 On December 14 , 2022 , I e-mailed the
3 Board a draft moratorium. On December
4 20 , 2022 , the Planning Board rescinded
5 its letter of support to the Zoning
6 Board of Appeals . On January 13 , 2023 ,
7 the supervisor at the time, Supervisor
8 Russell , called for what is now this
9 moratorium . The moratorium was critical
10 to stopping the rubber stamping of these
11 facilities . As you may be able to
12 deduce from my comments , I ' m in full
13 support of extending this moratorium to
14 further investigate potential
15 regulations or an outright prohibition
16 on these facilities within the town . My
17 support of this extension is in line
18 with the Suffolk County Planning
19 Commission, who as the Town Board member
20 referenced, on March 6 , 2024 , approved a
21 six month extension . However, I would
22 ask the Town Board to exercise your
23 power on the New York State General
24 Municipal Law Section 239-M5 , and
25 override the Suffolk County Planning
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 8
1 Commission by voting by a majority plus
2 one to extend this moratorium for a full
3 year . Thank you very much .
4 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
5 you .
6 PAUL DECHANCE : And just let me --
7 just let me clarify for the Board . The
8 Planning Commission approved a 12 month
9 moratorium with the requirement that the
10 Town return and report in six months .
11 And the Board has that under its
12 consideration this evening .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Go
14 right ahead, Mr . Kiely, finish up .
15 STEPHEN KIELY : I ' m sorry, just
16 right, it ' s a six month that they
17 approved .
18 PAUL DECHANCE : It ' s a 12 month .
19 They ' re supporting it, but they ' re
20 requiring us to return in September of
21 2024 to report . The Board is
22 considering whether or not to override
23 that requirement , but that was the
24 recommendation of the Planning
25 Commission .
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 9
1 STEPHEN KIELY : Okay . Then I must
2 have read something differently, but
3 what I read was a six month . So as long
4 as you ' re sure on that .
5 PAUL DECHANCE : I ' ll be happy to
6 share the comments with you if you want .
7 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I ' m sorry
8 if I led to some confusion by
9 summarizing the letter . I ' m not an
10 attorney .
11 STEPHEN KIELY : Again, I am
12 familiar with the Suffolk County
13 Planning Commission and moratoriums .
14 They ' re mostly adverse to approving
15 moratoriums in the main . However, for
16 battery storage facilities , they ' ve been
17 routinely granting moratoriums , but they
18 only grant for six months . So that ' s
19 why I ' m a little confused . But anyway,
20 I would just urge the Board, if it ' s six
21 months or a year, whatever, if you have
22 to do it, vote unanimously, so you can
23 override it and make sure it ' s a year .
24 We need a year of moratorium on this .
25 Thank you very much .
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 10
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you .
3 TRACY LEVY : Thank you so much,
4 Members of the Board . Sorry I came up
5 here early . Again, my name is Tracy
6 Levy . I live at 865 White Eagle Drive
7 in Laurel , and I ' m also here to urge the
8 extension of the moratorium on the
9 proposed battery storage system . While
10 developers of this ill conceived project
11 want to roll ahead, I would contend that
12 the North Fork of Long Island does not
13 present any location that is suitable
14 for this challenging and volatile
15 technology . Responsible energy
16 executives would tell you that you
17 should look for a Brownsfields location
18 first . I have been in the energy
19 industry for close to 36 years . This is
20 something -- a Brownsfields is something
21 that ' s been environmentally ruined . So
22 it ' s either challenged or it must be
23 capped . The parcel that ' s being
24 considered by Key Capture is not meeting
25 that criteria . I also believe the site
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 11
1 was chosen because the developers
2 thought they could pull a fast one on
3 the Town of Southold and just get an
4 egress to transmission lines granted
5 easily . Government should look to
6 models in western townships where such
7 an invasive project would only get
8 consideration of the town were a partner
9 in the project and would see profits and
10 perpetuity to offset taxes for all of
11 the residents . By the way, that should
12 be the case for all projects where
13 benefits flow back to residents . But
14 between the fires that we are easily
15 researching online, a poor location,
16 interconnection costs , 22 cents a
17 kilowatt hour for PSEG power right now .
18 Have you asked BESS how much this is
19 going to -- or Key Capture, how much
20 their BESS is going to cost per kilowatt
21 hour? Our impacts to Visa, the vistas
22 here , the residential rejection of this
23 in general . I ' m a member of the group
24 in Cutchogue, even though I live in
25 Laurel , because I ' m passionate about
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 12
1 this project . The truth of the matter
2 is that the battery storage in an outage
3 or a peak demand for power situation
4 only gets you a few hours . A few hours .
5 This is a -- stopgap of this much with
6 our environment being this much . It ' s
7 not worth gambling the beauty of Oregon
8 Road or for that matter, the entire
9 North Fork on a technology that is
10 changing, rapidly changing and probably
11 becoming obsolete as I sit here or as I
12 stand here and speak . So I would ask
13 the Town Board to please extend the
14 moratorium for as much time as possible,
15 and to tell State officials that the
16 Town of Southold rejects battery storage
17 in general . I ' m aware that you ' re
18 trying to establish rules so the Town --
19 so the State doesn ' t come in and just
20 say we ' re going to put it here . We
21 should band together and fight the state
22 because they ' re wrong on, on just
23 ramming something down our throats .
24 Thank you very much for your time and
25 consideration .
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 13
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
2 you . Thank you for your comments .
3 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I do see
4 there ' s someone online .
5 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Okay .
6 Well then we ' ll switch over to -- thank
7 you .
8 RAFAEL BARAGACA: Okay . My name is
9 Rafael Baragaca . My only credential is
10 that I ' m a resident . Resident of
11 Mattituck, but I ' m also representing a
12 lot of people , many of whom are on this
13 Zoom, who are residents , who would
14 request if there ' s any doubt about not
15 doing this extension, that there be an
16 open forum in which the stakeholders ,
17 the people who live in the area, or
18 people who live anywhere on the North
19 Fork have a chance to express their
20 ideas before any decision is made .
21 Thank you .
22 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
23 you . And just to that point , last year,
24 the past supervisor and Town Board set
25 up a very capable task force . So when
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 14
1 they come forward with their
2 recommendations , then it will become a
3 very public forum on discussing how the
4 Town is going to move forward . This is
5 only extending the moratorium on new
6 applications . So that the task force
7 has time to work . Thank you .
8 Now we can go to someone on the
9 computer here . Thank you, Jessica .
10 ALEX O ' MARA: Hi . My name is Alex
11 O ' Mara . I ' m a member of Friends of
12 Oregon Road . Tracey Levy spoke so
13 eloquently for us , as did Steve Kiely .
14 We are a group of approximately 40
15 homeowners on or close to Oregon Road .
16 We argued in favor of the initial
17 moratorium, and the creation of the task
18 force . And we thank the Board for
19 making the wise decision to pause
20 battery storage development until it has
21 had time to fully consider all of the
22 issues . One of the missions of the task
23 force was to understand the concerns of
24 stakeholders . In the narrow sense , this
25 means those neighbors living most
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 15
1 closely to the proposed battery storage
2 system on Oregon Road . But really, the
3 entire Town of Southold are stakeholders
4 since Oregon Road is not the only
5 location in jeopardy . The task force
6 heard from several experts , but so far
7 it feels rather one sided . Since apart
8 from a fire expert, many of them of the
9 experts who address the task force work
10 in the battery storage space , and are
11 therefore proponents of these projects .
12 There are many issues that have not yet
13 been considered . For example, if there
14 were a fire at the Oregon Road facility,
15 how would the Town handle the evacuation
16 zone , which would presumably include the
17 transfer station, as well as , the
18 closure of Route 48 and the many nearby
19 homes? We also note the Governor
20 Hochul ' s task force , which was charged
21 with studying the three BESS buyers that
22 took place in New York last year, did
23 not study groundwater contamination . In
24 short, there ' s a lot of work yet to be
25 done . So we urge the Board to extend
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 16
1 the moratorium for 12 months because the
2 community has not yet had a full
3 opportunity to express its concerns and
4 there ' s a lot more work to be done .
5 Thank you .
6 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
7 you . Thank you for your comments . Is
8 there anyone else who ' s here would like
9 to speak? Dave?
10 DAVE BERGEN : Dave Bergen,
11 Cutchogue . I ' m here on behalf of the
12 Cutchogue Civic Association, and the
13 Board of the Civic Association wants to
14 express their support for continuing
15 this moratorium. Thank you .
16 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
17 you .
18 ANNE MURRAY : Hi . Good evening .
19 I ' m Anne Murray . I ' m here representing
20 the North Fork Environmental Council ,
21 and we also recommend and support your
22 extension of the battery storage
23 moratorium . Thank you .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
25 you . All right . Is there anyone else
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 17
1 who ' d like to speak on this matter?
2 (No Response ) .
3 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Anyone
4 else on the computer?
5 PAUL DECHANCE : Mr . Supervisor, if
6 you don ' t mind, let me clarify, if I
7 can, for the record . And for the
8 benefit of Mr . Kiely, the comments of
9 the Suffolk County Planning Commission .
10 The interesting thing is the Local Law
11 proposes 12 months and the Planning
12 Commission goes as far as saying they
13 approve of the Local Law, but then
14 condition it by a six month initial
15 period, followed by a report back to
16 discuss whether six months is required .
17 So, Mr . Kiely is right . One reading of
18 that is that it ' s six months . They
19 basically approve the entire 12 months ,
20 but say we need the term should go back
21 after six months . The Board has that
22 under consideration, but I thought that
23 in all fairness it was worth qualifying .
24 STEPHEN KIELY : No . Absolutely .
25 It was poorly drafted and it could be
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 18
1 open to interpretation either way . So
2 that ' s why I just wanted to make sure
3 that when you vote for it , please vote
4 unanimously . So there ' s no question .
5 That you can override it . Thanks .
6 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
7 you .
8 All right . So if there ' s no other
9 comment , either online or in-person, do
10 I have a motion to close the hearing?
11 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : So moved .
12 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Second .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Do we
14 need a roll call to close the hearing,
15 Mr . Clerk, or --
16 DENIS NONCARROW : No .
17 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
18 favor?
19 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
20 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
21 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
22 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
23 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
25 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 19
1 LL CHAPTER 240 SUBDIVISION OF LAND
2 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : All
3 right . So the second public hearing
4 we ' re holding tonight is amending
5 Chapter 240 of the Subdivision Code .
6 And I ' m going to read my own -- or state
7 my own summary here . What we ' re looking
8 to do, previously, there was an
9 inclusionary zoning buyout, where
10 individuals with doing subdivisions
11 could pay a certain amount of money . So
12 they would not need to build the
13 affordable unit . We ' re looking at
14 pulling that buyout provision out and
15 requiring subdivisions with over five
16 unit -- five parcels to be required to
17 build an affordable unit . In the folder
18 here , I have a letter of support from
19 the Southold Town Planning Board . I
20 have a letter from the Suffolk County
21 Planning Commission calling this a
22 matter of local determination . I have
23 an affidavit that we sent this notice a
24 -- Nope , this is in the wrong folder . I
25 have the legal notice . I have a letter
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 20
1 from our LWRP coordinator, Mark Terry .
2 Now I have a copy of the affidavit of a
3 notice that was sent to adjacent
4 municipalities . I have an affidavit
5 signed by our Town Clerk, Denis
6 Noncarrow . Posting of the legal notice
7 on the back bulletin board . I have an
8 Affidavit of Publication from the
9 Suffolk Times , a copy of the legal
10 notice, and the resolution . That ' s what
11 I got .
12 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
13 you, Councilman Doroski . It looks like
14 the records in order . Is there anyone
15 who ' d like to speak on this change to
16 Local Law in relation to amendments to
17 Chapter 240 , Subdivision of Land?
18 HEATHER LANZA : I have a short
19 presentation . To the Board on this .
20 Heather Lanza, Southold Town Planning
21 Director . I had a nice slideshow, but
22 apparently we have not invested in
23 Microsoft PowerPoint on that computer .
24 I ' ll go without the slides . I ' m just
25 going to talk about our existing code ,
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 21
1 what ' s currently required in Chapter
2 240 . The results of that so far for
3 workforce housing and the code amendment
4 summary of our Code Amendment . Our
5 subdivision code , as we know it today,
6 was adopted in 2004 . The most notable
7 parts of the code at that time were the
8 formalization of our conservation
9 subdivision . And the requirement for
10 affordable housing to be included in
11 each new standard subdivision . 20 --
12 well , I ' m just going to skip to the next
13 thing . So as I mentioned, our current
14 subdivision code was adopted in 2004 .
15 The section on affordable housing
16 requirements was amended in 2008 . Only
17 standard subdivisions require
18 affordable ' s and those only if over five
19 lots . So standard subdivisions are
20 those that are proposing to build the
21 maximum number of lots allowed by
22 Zoning . Conservation subdivisions do
23 not require any affordable ' s or
24 workforce housing to be built . That ' s
25 because conservation subdivisions
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 22
1 drastically reduce their yield, and
2 preserve more land than standard
3 subdivisions . So for standard
4 subdivisions of more than five lots , our
5 current code says at least 200 of those
6 lots are required to have homes that are
7 sold at affordable rates . Those rates
8 set by the Town Board each year . And
9 then the ownership is determined by
10 lottery from the Town ' s eligible person
11 list . So just a quick example, a parcel
12 that could have a maximum of 10 lots
13 would have to provide homes on two of
14 those that are affordable . And then the
15 other eight could be sold at market
16 rate . There are currently several
17 options to actually building affordable
18 homes in standard subdivisions and
19 that ' s what this code amendment ' s all
20 about . Those options to building
21 include buying out up to 1000 . Building
22 it elsewhere, or providing vacant land
23 to the Town, to develop with affordable
24 housing later . Lost without my slides .
25 After 20 years , so now what are the
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 23
1 results of this program to date? So
2 it ' s been 20 years of these requirements
3 being on the books . And we ' ve had two
4 buyouts representing 14 units of
5 affordable housing . One from a standard
6 subdivision of 12 homes , where two were
7 required, but they bought out and were
8 able to build all 12 as market rate .
9 The other from a legal settlement with
10 the Harvest Point development, where 12
11 affordable ' s were required and those
12 were paid out as well instead of built .
13 To date , no affordable homes have been
14 created from that fund . The option to
15 build elsewhere, that second option, has
16 never been attempted or proposed . The
17 option to provide land elsewhere was
18 attempted once unsuccessfully . And
19 during that process , it became obvious
20 to the Planning Board that was not a
21 practical option for several reasons ,
22 the quality of the land being offered,
23 the location, and it may not ever result
24 in actual units ' cause it was just
25 vacant land . In hindsight now, if we
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 24
1 did not offer a buyout option, we would
2 have those 14 units having been created
3 in places where new construction was
4 already happening . So this amendment
5 will remove all of those options and
6 will be required to build in standard
7 subdivisions that 200 . And the results
8 we hope will be actual units on the
9 ground . It ' s a more certain way to land
10 these units in places where
11 development ' s already happening . It
12 spreads the affordable ' s out amongst the
13 different hamlets . It results in home
14 ownership, which I think is a big
15 priority right now . It simplifies and
16 clarifies the expectations for
17 developers , and that ' s about it . I
18 think there ' s some -- it ' s a good
19 positive change to the code . That ' s all
20 I have .
21 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Your
22 summary was much, much better than mine .
23 Thank you .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
25 you . Thank you . Pat?
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 25
1 PATRICIA MOORE : Thank you .
2 Patricia Moore, an attorney -- local
3 attorney, and I ' ve been doing
4 subdivisions since the day I came out
5 here . So late ' 80s . I participated in
6 the prior code, and it was a real --
7 we ' re going backwards , I think, in what
8 we ' re proposing here . When the
9 subdivisions were being reviewed under
10 the 2004 code that required mandate of
11 the inclusion -- of, let ' s call it
12 workforce or affordable units within the
13 subdivision . The developers were upset
14 by it . The neighbors were extremely
15 upset by it . It became obvious that it
16 was not working . So when the code
17 provided for it, there were no units
18 produced . It only created controversy
19 and pain through the process . Things
20 have not gotten any better . The reality
21 is that there really aren ' t a lot of
22 major subdivisions that would fit under
23 this provision . What we need is taking
24 all the funds that have accumulated, and
25 I have not heard how much money is
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 26
1 actually in the fund . I ' d love to know
2 that number, but what you have is an
3 opportunity to take those funds and find
4 modest homes that can be improved, and
5 sold back to people that qualify under
6 the guidelines . You have the ability to
7 find lots that are throughout the town
8 that can be developed . You have to look
9 at it creatively . This Board is
10 creative . You have very talented people
11 in the Planning Office and throughout
12 the Town . You could either create a
13 Community Development Director, if you
14 already have somebody that is considered
15 a Community Development Director . They
16 would be charged with soliciting
17 properties and trying to find and
18 develop property throughout the town .
19 When you put one house in the middle of
20 a neighborhood, it doesn ' t impact the
21 neighborhood . But when you ' re creating
22 a subdivision and the reality is that
23 these subdivisions that bought out the
24 mandatory, the homes that are being put
25 up are $2 million homes . The social
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 27
1 engineering that was well intentioned
2 under the prior code, and what we ' re
3 trying to put back in the code today, is
4 putting a modest , probably a ranch or a
5 cape next to a $2 million house . And
6 many of the subdivision regulations
7 require clustering . So it means that
8 the homes are all going to be, let ' s
9 call it a cul-de-sac, where you have a
10 $ 1-$2 million home next to an
11 affordable . That ' s what was creating
12 the problem the first time, and we ' re
13 putting it back in . What we should be
14 doing is adding creative ways of finding
15 affordable . Finding -- soliciting . You
16 know, this is published . This is --
17 have the newspapers . Go out and solicit
18 and say, hey community, if you have a
19 house, senior citizen is ready to sell
20 to relocate or anybody is ready to sell
21 their home , contact the Town . The Town
22 has money . We may be able to buy it at
23 a reasonable price . It doesn ' t have to
24 be -- many people are very generous .
25 And they may not be looking to sell to
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 28
1 the highest bidder . They are interested
2 in giving back to the community . I ' ve
3 done wills where clients have wanted
4 that to be done, believe it or not . And
5 so they ' re out there . This provision
6 did not work the first time . I find it
7 going backwards rather than going
8 perspective and using the tools we have .
9 So I ' m hoping that you will stick to the
10 code the way it is . Fine , people want
11 to buy out , great . Between the quarter
12 percent and the money that is coming out
13 of a subdivision, which again, if we
14 counted how many major subdivisions , we
15 probably count them in one hand because
16 it ' s just so cost prohibitive to do
17 major subdivisions in this town . Plus
18 the pressure, the arm twisting that
19 occurs to not develop a major
20 subdivision . There are opportunities
21 that you can implement to provide
22 affordable housing . So that ' s my point,
23 and I hope we don ' t go backwards . We go
24 forward . And really, I have 1 , 000 ideas
25 of what we could do to try to encourage
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 29
1 affordable , including many projects that
2 I ' ve been involved in where I ' ve had to
3 go to the Zoning Board, and the Zoning
4 Board says no , and I ' ve had to throw
5 people out of apartments that were part
6 of a house . We haven ' t created a
7 unified goal to provide for apartments
8 or even affordable . So I ' m hoping that
9 you will implement that . Thank you .
10 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
11 you . Councilwoman Doherty?
12 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : So Pat ,
13 all those things that you ' ve mentioned,
14 we are working on with the Housing Plan
15 and all the different groups we have .
16 But I will tell you with the two housing
17 accounts we have in it , it ' s about $ 1 . 3
18 million right now . We get a check from
19 the County from the 0 . 5 o quarterly, and
20 it all obviously depends on real estate
21 sales . So when you talk about the Town
22 has money to buy houses , we don ' t .
23 Because you can ' t deplete the account
24 because there ' s many different programs
25 that we ' re going to be issuing under
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 30
1 this Housing Plan . Down payment grant .
2 You know, low interest loans and
3 different -- it ' s a combination of so
4 many different things . And, you know,
5 so -- you know, we ' re trying to do
6 this -- every little thing we ' re trying
7 to do is going to push the hole . And we
8 encourage people to look at our program
9 and to use their existing structures to
10 help with affordable housing and
11 workforce housing . So I just wanted to
12 let you know that it ' s not -- that it
13 hasn ' t built up yet , and we hope that it
14 continues to build up . And we ' re --
15 we ' re getting creative . We we ' re
16 working on getting approval for a
17 housing personnel service is going to
18 tell us --
19 PATRICIA MOORE : -- Development
20 Director . When I worked in Riverhead --
21 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah,
22 that ' s not going to be the title .
23 Because Civil Service has it whatever
24 the title of the -- can ' t think of it
25 now . So we ' re working on that, and
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 31
1 that ' s gonna be part of our Housing
2 Plan, and Anne and I are working with
3 the staff, and we ' re coming up with a
4 lot of different things . So this is just
5 one of the tools that we ' re putting in .
6 PATRICIA MOORE : My point is , this
7 tool was tried, it did not work . It
8 actually failed miserably . And I hate
9 to see us go back and insert something
10 that was proven to not work .
11 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah .
12 PATRICIA MOORE : Getting a
13 developer to pay money, extra money,
14 fine . You ' re gonna sell a house for $2
15 million . It ' s just part of the cost of
16 doing business and that ' s they can
17 swallow . What they can swallow is having
18 an affordable and extra $2 million home,
19 which in my neighborhood, we have that,
20 but they tend to be waterfront homes on
21 large properties . And so it ' s a mixed
22 community . But this process did not
23 work the first time , and it was just
24 very frustrating all in all .
25 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 32
1 you .
2 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : I would
3 also just add, you mentioned working
4 with clients who had issues with ZBA,
5 anything we can learn from that in terms
6 of supporting people who have apartments
7 that need to be legalized or whatever
8 needs to be, to happen with that . If you
9 have other ideas , Jill and I are both on
10 the Housing Commission . And just little
11 examples that might help us work through
12 some new ideas would be great .
13 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
14 you . Is there anyone else who ' d like to
15 speak?
16 ROBERT DUNN : Robert Dunn, Peconic .
17 I agree 100o with that . I just -- it ' s
18 got to know the component to it too .
19 When you take people, working class
20 people and they get an opportunity to
21 live amongst other people that may be
22 doing a little better, their children
23 are exposed to them . It kind of raises
24 everything up . It goes beyond just
25 housing . It ' s -- we shouldn ' t have --
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 33
1 Let ' s call them ghettos . I mean whether
2 they ' re economic ghettos or cultural
3 ghettos . We shouldn ' t have them. So I
4 think it ' s good . That ' s a mighty
5 leaguer who works on Wall Street and can
6 afford a $2 million house has to work
7 next to a guy who works in IGA. I just
8 think that ' s -- that ' s positive . So and
9 especially when the guy who works in IGA
10 can ' t afford to live here . So we ' re
11 giving him a place to live, and getting
12 his future . Whether it be himself or
13 his children, and getting exposed to
14 other things that will perhaps pick them
15 up . And then I had a question . I could
16 get up later, but I ' ll ask you now . Do
17 we go over 311 ? Passed by --
18 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : No , not
19 yet . 311 is the next public hearing .
20 ROBERT DUNN : Oh, I see . So you
21 didn ' t -- we never read -- okay .
22 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Come on
23 don ' t rush us .
24 ROBERT DUNN : Okay . Thank you .
25 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : And
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 34
1 thank you for the comments , but the
2 people don ' t get the house, they ' d be
3 paying a mortgage and they ' d be paying
4 taxes . The affordable units in that
5 subdivision would have a mortgage . And
6 they would be paying taxes .
7 ROBERT DUNN : Oh, for sure .
8 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We know
9 what you meant, but we want to make sure
10 the public knows what you meant .
11 ROBERT DUNN : There ' s no free
12 rides . They ' re going to get paid . The
13 house is going to be a smaller house
14 than the $2 million dollar house next
15 door, obviously . And that ' s fine . I
16 mean, there ' s big houses next -- you can
17 compare my house to you -- you switch
18 this house? I ' d be embarrassed .
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . :
20 Jessica, I see we have 12 attendees . Is
21 there anyone there would like to add to
22 this ?
23 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I would
24 like to say, I agree with this change ;
25 however, for the unintended consequences
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 35
1 that we don ' t have a crystal ball , I
2 think we should put a caveat or some
3 kind of sentence that maybe the
4 attorneys can come up with . That we
5 leave it up to the Planning staff or the
6 Town Board, that if there ' s ever a
7 situation that it doesn ' t work, where
8 the affordable housing units will go,
9 that it ' s up to the Town to decide to
10 maybe let that developer say, okay, this
11 doesn ' t work here, we ' re giving you a
12 choice to give us funds instead of that .
13 I think it ' s something that I briefly
14 talked about before with the Board, and
15 I just want to in the public hearing put
16 it on the record that, I think we should
17 put something in there that the Town can
18 decide in any given situation that we
19 don ' t know that ' s going to come up . That
20 they can say, this doesn ' t work here .
21 But we offer you this .
22 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Right .
23 I ' ll make my recommendation, but we ' ll
24 close the hearing first and then we ' ll
25 debate it .
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 36
1 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Okay .
2 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : So now
3 I ' ll entertain a motion to close the
4 hearing?
5 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I ' ll make
6 that motion to close the hearing .
7 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Second .
8 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
9 favor?
10 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
11 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
12 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
13 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
14 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
16 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
17 MCCALL FAMILY HOLDINGS LIMITED
18 PARTNERSHIP, LLP
19 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : All
20 right . So the third public hearing that
21 we are holding tonight again, I ' m going
22 to summarize, is for a development
23 rights acquisition, the McCall
24 Development Rights Acquisition . And
25 I ' ll read the property . It ' s at 19500
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 37
1 Route 25 , Mattituck, New York . It ' s on
2 the south side of Route 25 . It ' s
3 currently located within the
4 Agricultural Conservation, AC Zoning
5 District, where the parcel itself is
6 16 . 79 acres . We ' re purchasing the
7 development rights of 14 . 76 acres and
8 leaving 2 . 03 of a reserve area . I ' ll let
9 our special assistant, the supervisor,
10 and land preservation go through and
11 describe this . In the folder, though,
12 before we get to that, I have a copy of
13 the posting of the affidavit on the back
14 bulletin board by our Town Clerk, Denis
15 Noncarrow . I have an Affidavit of
16 Publication in the Suffolk Times , a copy
17 of the legal notice , and a copy of the
18 resolution . That ' s what I got .
19 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
20 right . Before we take public comment,
21 Lily, could you come up and make your
22 presentation?
23 LILLIAN McCULLOUGH : So good
24 evening . I ' m Lilly McCullough, the
25 Southold Town Land Preservation
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 38
1 Executive Assistant . The property we ' re
2 talking about today is 19500 Main Road
3 in Mattituck, New York . It ' s the
4 property outlined in red on the map here
5 in the room, and on Zoom. It ' s located
6 on the corner of the Main Road and
7 Locust Avenue . It ' s about 16 . 79 acres ,
8 and it ' s located in the Agricultural
9 Conservation Zone . So as proposed, the
10 Town would acquire a roughly 14 . 76 acre
11 development rights easement . Limiting
12 use of the property easement area to
13 agricultural production, using Community
14 Preservation Funds at $71 , 000 an acre .
15 The dashed white line on this map
16 represents the two acre reserve area,
17 which is in the southeast corner of the
18 property, fronting on Locust Avenue .
19 And development rights would remain
20 intact in that area . All of these
21 areas , by the way, are subject to
22 survey . So the estimated purchase price
23 is $ 1 , 047 , 960 . The farm contains 1000
24 prime agricultural soils . It borders
25 active farmland to the south and the
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 39
1 east , if you look at the map . The white
2 labels indicate preserved land, land
3 that ' s preserved either by the Town or
4 County through both development rights
5 acquisition programs and open space
6 preservation programs . If you just look
7 solely on the south side of the Main
8 Road here, you can see that this
9 property is the western end of a
10 significant block of active agriculture .
11 And it ' s book ended on the east by Downs
12 Farm Preserve , Peconic Land Trust, open
13 space easement, and Downs Creek . So it
14 borders 226 acres of active farmland .
15 185 of which are preserved, and there
16 are 66 . 4 acres of preserved open space,
17 and you can see how north of Depot
18 Creek . This project would bring our
19 total to 3 , 035 acres of preserved
20 farmland through the Town program. And
21 I would like to thank the landowner, who
22 has been a long time proponent and
23 partner for preservation in town and
24 farming here in Southold . And he gave
25 us this opportunity to preserve a really
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 40
1 important piece and a significant block
2 of agriculture . And I ' d also like to
3 thank Holly Sanford and the folks at the
4 Peconic Land Trust, who recognized you
5 know the threat of development here and
6 acted quickly to coordinate with the
7 landowner, and the Town to design this
8 project and keep it as a working farm .
9 So I ' m pleased to present this project
10 to you all today . It ' ll keep an active
11 farm in agriculture and the Land
12 Preservation Committee and I , ask the
13 Town Board to proceed with this
14 acquisition .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
16 you, Lily . Great presentation . Does
17 anyone like to speak to this proposal ?
18 (No Response ) All right . Seeing
19 none . Is there a motion? Is there
20 anyone? Thank you . Yeah, go ahead .
21 BILL EDWARDS : Thank you . Bill
22 Edwards , Mattituck . I ' ve been selfishly
23 concerned as somebody who lives in the
24 neighborhood, in the hope that all that
25 open space that on both sides of Locust
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 41
1 got preserved . Because I think 25 ,
2 50 -- well , I won ' t be here 25 years
3 from now, but 50 years from now,
4 there ' ll be farmland in one of the most
5 visible places in Southold Town . And I
6 think this is a great coup for the Town,
7 and obviously for the McCall Family . And
8 I am -- this is probably of all the --
9 and I ' ve been involved with land
10 preservation in this town for a long
11 time or interested . And I would argue
12 that this isn ' t going to be one of the
13 real triumphs that people look back on .
14 Congratulations .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
16 you . Thank you for that .
17 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Bill ,
18 thank you for your service to the town
19 and reminding us what ' s important . In
20 every conversation I ' ve had with you,
21 I ' ve gotten a little smarter . So thank
22 you for being that person that we can
23 ask questions to , and for your service .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All
25 right . So there ' s no other comment and
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 42
1 there is none on the computer?
2 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So I ' ll
3 make a motion we close the public
4 hearing .
5 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Second .
6 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
7 favor?
8 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
9 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
10 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
11 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
12 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye
13 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
14 PUBLIC COMMENTS
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : So now
16 is there anyone who ' d like to address
17 the Board?
18 ROBERT DUNN : Robert Dunn again . I
19 didn ' t want to muddle a conversation
20 before about the batteries . But I mean,
21 this is obviously a big -- I agree with
22 moratorium . I ' m fine with it . But
23 obviously, there ' s a big discussion on
24 about these batteries . There ' s many
25 other options for batteries . And like it
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 43
1 or not, Southold ' s going to have to have
2 batteries or we ' re going to be paying
3 more for electric . Because up island is
4 going to have batteries . And sooner or
5 later, they ' re going to realize that we
6 don ' t have batteries and say we don ' t
7 want our electricity going there unless
8 they pay us . That ' s the bottom line on
9 it . So there ' s a thing that ' s going to
10 happen there . I mean, you can store
11 electricity in salt . It ' ll be a bigger
12 battery . It may not be as efficient,
13 but it doesn ' t have the kind of problems
14 that we ' re getting with these lithium .
15 I guess the final thing is everybody
16 saying lithium battery is a great
17 lithium . Well , there was a lot of
18 people in the 30 ' s saying the same thing
19 about asbestos . And look at how much
20 more we ' re spending getting rid of it .
21 So at least, the lithium has already
22 given us a little warning, a little
23 advance of what ' s coming . So maybe in
24 the discussions that are going on, we
25 should be discussing alternate
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 44
1 batteries . Let ' s just keep it in the
2 back of our minds that one day, we ' re
3 going to probably have to have
4 batteries . We ' re not going to get a
5 choice there or we ' re going to pay .
6 The more we use wind and solar, the more
7 we require storage . That ' s just the way
8 it is . So that ' s a reality . And I
9 think the alternatives are out there .
10 They may not be as cost effective or
11 as effective in general , but they ' ll
12 still work . So the other thing I was
13 going to say is that remember I hear
14 this conversation about the batteries .
15 I keep hearing people saying, Oregon
16 Road is so beautiful . It is . But
17 let ' s not lose sight of the fact that
18 this site that ' s been picked for
19 batteries is the only site in this
20 town that ' s between two dumps , not one,
21 but two . Okay . So it ' s -- it ' s not
22 as pure as we ' d like to think it
23 is .
24 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
25 you . What do you think? What do you
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 45
1 about our dump, sir?
2 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I did
3 read the Governor ' s proposals with these
4 battery sites that Long Island in East
5 particularly, the Eastern and Long
6 Island is her Number Two pick for a
7 site . So we definitely have to make
8 sure we have good code that we want .
9 And so we have a home rule . And if we
10 don ' t do any code, then it ' s going to be
11 mandated on us . So we need to make sure
12 we continue the research and develop
13 that we want to see . Not the way the
14 governor wants to see . The way we want
15 it in this Town . And I say "we " , I mean
16 all the constituents and everybody that
17 lives here right .
18 ROBERT DUNN : But the conversation
19 we ' re having is lithium --
20 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah .
21 ROBERT DUNN : What I ' m saying is as
22 long as you ' re having conversations ,
23 let ' s broaden the conversation . There ' s
24 other things out there . I ' m not an
25 engineer, an electrical engineer . I
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 46
1 can ' t tell you the realities of it , but
2 I just think that this discussion ought
3 to be wide . Two years ago, lithium was
4 never mentioned in this room .
5 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I ' m
6 hoping that others can come up to the
7 par of where lithium is , the technology
8 in this .
9 ROBERT DUNN : Exactly . The
10 technology . I mean, technology seems so
11 fundamental , like I said . The technology
12 can go both ways . And, you know, in the
13 30 ' s they would tell everybody how good
14 is asbestos .
15 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Thank
16 you .
17 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Motion
18 to adjourn the meeting .
19 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Second .
20 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : All in
21 favor?
22 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
23 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
24 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
25 COUNCILWOMAN ANNE SMITH : Aye .
MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 47
1 SUPERVISOR AL KRUPSKI JR . : Aye .
2
3 (Whereupon, the meeting concluded
4 at this time . )
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MARCH 26, 2024 REGULAR MEETING 48
1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
2
3 I , Jessica DiLallo, a Notary Public
4 for and within the State of New York,
5 do hereby certify :
6 THAT , the within transcript is a
7 true record of said Board Meeting .
8 I further certify that I am not
9 related either by blood or marriage to
10 any of the parties to this action; and
11 that I am in no way interested in the
12 outcome of this matter .
13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
14 set my hand this day, March 26 , 2024 .
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