HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-07/19/2001 HEARING SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARINGS
HELD JULY 19, 2001
(Prepared by Paula Quinfieri)
Present were:
Chou'man Goehringcr
Member Dinizio
Member Tortora
Member Collins
Member Homing
Panla Quintieri, Secretary
Absent were:
Member Homing
PUBLIC HEARING:
7:55 p.m. Appl. No. 4976 - MICHAEL McALLISTER. (Public Heating continued)
Variances requested: (11 under Article XXIII. Section 100-239.4A. 1, based on the
Build'rog Inspector's May 31, 2001 Notice of Disapproval for new dwelling at less than
100 feet from the top of the bluff at L.I. Sound, (2) under Article XXI~, Section 100-
239.4A. 1 based on the Building Inspector's May 31, 2001 Notice of Disapproval for an
in-ground swimming pool at less than 100 feet from the top of the bluff, and (3) under
~Article III, Section t0fl-3B.4 to locate a proposed garage at less than 20 feet from side lot
qine. 17665 Soundview Avenue, Southold; 51-1-3.
CHAIRMAN: I'm going ro open the hearing. Jim wants to discuss something, so the
heating ~s open. We are ready for you sir.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I spoke [o somebody concerning tiffs revetment. I got a good
explanation from
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Costello?
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MEMBER DIIxlZIO: I didn't speak to John because I understand it's his company that's
going to do it. But I spoke to one of his workers, and we had a nice discussion. He told
me it's nothing but a pile of rocks.
CHAIRMAN: Right. What the difference is J/m is, these are organized rocks, as
opposed to riprap; which are rocks containerized.
MEMBER DINIZIO: That's what I was thinking it was, because I had seen that. But
really, like you said, they're organized rocks and they can move.
CHAIRMAN: That's the nice part about it, because they then become the foundation for
additional rocks in future years, if needed.
MEMBER D1NIZIO: He said there is no erosion caused by the rocks because of their
placement. He also said a hundred year storm might not happen again for another
hundred years.
CHA1R3/IAN: The heating is open Brace. we're ready.
BRUCE ANDERSON: Thank you very much. During the last hearing there were a
number of issues that were raised. My intention is to address each and every one of them
with satisfaction to the Board. It seems to me one of the, probably the greatest area of
concern was the question of how exactly we were going to stabilize this bluff. What is
and was proposed was a very low profile, two rows of rock. Much lighter than really any
kind of dry stabilization in very uncommon (inaudible). The (inaudible) of the bluff is
stabilized by vegetation and in designing the various designs that we are going to present
tonight, we hope you will look at them in a matter that you're excited about them, as we
are; because ff you really look at this thing very hard and we want to get to this comfort
level that if this project gets approved, will nol result in any damage to that bluff
whatsoever. The contrary that the bluff will be restored (inaudible) to the condition it is
today, To get the ball rolling I'm going to show you plans that we did for another client
that was done who lived in Northaven and I mentioned this to you briefly at the previous
meeting. I am going to hand each of you a prtrposed site plan that we did, in connection
with a stairwell that we made down along the bluff. These clients are known as the
Stems, and I think I said they live on the west bank of Northaven. If you're any boaters
and you happened to go to Noyak Bay you took to the west and see Jessup Beck, which is
for the most pan a completely sand bluff. And sirrdlarly if you took back towards
Northaven you see the same thing at Northaven Point. When we had made that
application, way back when, the concerns that you guys raised were very gimilar to the
concerns that were raised even back then. The second thing I'm going to show you is
here is the photos that were taken reflect the condition of that bluff prior to
impl~nentation of this project, and what that blufflooks like today. I think they will give
you a great comfort level. If you look at the first photograph you simply see the denuded
bluff which is actually more sparsely vegetated than the bluff here on McAilister
property. If you then mm to the subsequent two photos that are included in your exhibit
there, you will see the stairway, now built, with this photograph a couple of days ago; and
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you will see the vegetation the implementation of that site plan that's before you. and how
that worked over time. Of course, die re-vegetation was limited to just eight feet or so on
either side of the stairway. What you can see is we sent in a mixl:are of beach grass and
Pceg0sa Rose. The railroad portion of the bluff is primarily dominated by the Regosa
Rose, and the upper portion p~marily dominated b~v beach grass, that's wha~ shows on
your second photo. The second photo being when you stand at the top of the bluff and
look down. I th/ak what they demonstrate is that these types of plantings plan will be
done successfully. Now it tums out, if you refer to your site plan and you look at the
topography there, the slope in question here was an 83%, slope, which is extraordinarily
steep. Referring to the surveys be£gr¢ yon in the Mc :A~'ster property indi~te th~! the
elevation- of the tcr~ o£~the blmff ~ d'then the elevation o~fie b~)ttom of the btt~ff am~ ~e~
you simply meastffe that ia tiaear dis~age you'l]~ rise ov~ fgrmul~a, ~ calculate film
om. The Mc3Jtister bluff on average is a 52% slope. So, ~ the Northave~ case We. were
able to domonstrare a sneeess~l planning of that bluff or~ a larger blmff that is far steeper
than what ~ve ~see in McAllister. So the analysis §ocs, if ~ can success ~ftg2y stabilize and
plant a targer,.s~eeper bluff in Nordiaven, t can cereainly sucCess~y pla~t~ and stabilize a
shorter and less deep bluff here in Southold. The way we do that, speci.fical~y for this
project, is shown on the site plan that we prepared for this property. [ will hand these up
so you can take a look at them, and I will show you how this project is physically
implemented. That is the site plan over here on the board. What we've done is we've
taken a photograph and so forth, and we defined where the erosion has incurred. What
we've said i~s that, the maj~ofity of the erosion has occurred on the lower parts of the bluff
and at the other portion of the bluff The upper most portion of the bluff is a grass area
that is thick, lush and highly stable. As you go down towards the center of the bluff, you
find more of a shrub type growth there; and then below that you have sparse vegetation in
the bluff (inaudible). What we propose here is the plantings of Regesa Rose and beach
grass one foot on center, which is the same specifications that were used in the Stern case
that I submitted to you. The way it's physically done is that what one lays out is called a
jute netting. A jute netting is made out of natural rope material, and it is pegged into the
site of the bluff; and/ts purpose is just to hold the soil temporarily while the root system
becomes established. So any area on the bluffthat is comprised of this sand and earth is
covered initially by this jute netting. Generally the mesh side of the jute is between four
and six inches. Either one is proved effective. Then within the openings ofthemesh you
physically plug the site. Typical of what you do, it's best to go with a mixture of plants
and the reason why you do that is so that one plant, for whatever reasons, may be better
than the other. So when the day is done, you have full coverage over the bluff. We are
very much confident that that type of planting will be successful. I am in receipt of the
report given to you from Soil and Conser~ation Service, which I generally agree with. It
speaks of two sorts of~ erosion, die first is, an overland phenomenon which comes from
the land, over the-top of the bluff, down the bluffs base. They identify the source o£
erosion. I don't doubt that I would only qualify it by saying that it is a very minor source,
because my reasons being, that clearly this bluff is eroded from the bottom and not the
top. The top is highly vegetated. On the second page it speaks to the serious erosion that
has incurred at the toe of the bluff, in lieu of the last storm event. It talks about
stabilizing that toe, precisely what this application does. The ultimate solution being the
planting plan that I have laid out for you. In any event, when we go back to the overland,
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upland storm water flow off of the bluff, is (inaudible) flow, it's not a concentrated flow.
What we propose to do here is. we've extended a retaining wall, a low-profile retaining
wall, and I~e~given you the cross-section here. The water is on. this side, and the house is
on this side. It essentially acts as a physical tenement preventing that water-from gong
over the top of the bluff. Set back a lbot landward of this ret~ng wall. The retaining
wall is really alight and non-struCtural wall. They added 6 x 6 railroad ties, which is how
we make it stable. Ihe idea is that the waler comes off the land and fails into this trench.
Now this trench is 2 x 3 foot trenc~h, which provides significant passage o~er the land.
What you're doing in this trench is you backfJl it with heavy ~co~rse gravel. It's known as
a Fre~cit ~ and itfS technique MS been useit man? raagy ~m.~'~s. ~ eczt~tinly,~do s~i~est
it; it's a standard, ace~tabl~ m~agemem, alteraativ~ We prOl~os,e tlmi. a~ ~I, md
expect that you make it a colt~ti~n~ o~ this variance that could be impleme~ted~ That
would eliminate any erosion, wl:dle not existing now, t!Saf, could occur from tJhe l~md over
the top of thi's bluff. I thi~k what we've a¢complished here is we've prov~de~l a solution
to,yards any threat of the overland .run ph~nom~on, as well as, as strong ~en erosion
effect that wcmld operate on the lower pm:t'.of the blu~£ We re~ard this as a model, and I
expect the next time I get involved in s6mething similar to this, I witl~ be coming in with
something similar hopefully with pictures showing l~w suceessful ttfis is to the pubhc
level.
CHAIRMAN: So you'll be adding onto the stem walkway with the McAllister walkway
in bluff area.
BRUCE ANDERSON: rll take it to McAllister and I'll take it up to Northaven just to
make it, but tha's right. We do that from t/me ~o time, we like to see what happens over
t/me. Because I know we live in a world of paper, and am always pleased to see that the
things can be implc~-nented and they can be implemented properly and they are
appropriate. We've had no problem with Stem. Those stairs have be~a up now for, they
were built I believe in the Fall of 1996. The 2001 are the most recent pictures we have.
We also amended our design and layout for both, the house, the pool and garage.
MEMBER COLLINS: Mr. Chairman, before Mr. Anderson gets onto the amended
layout, could I ask a question about what you've just been telling us about the bluff?.
BRUCE ANDERSON: Sure.
MEMBER COLLINS: Just to boil it down, I'd like to, your statement is with respect to
the bluff there are two sources of water. One is overland and you propose, you believe it
is not a severe problmn and you propose to deal with it with this French drain and
retaining wall, as you just explained to us. The other problem is erosion of the toe of the
bluff. Am I right that it is really erosion of the toe of the bluff is the thing that people
have been focusing on, certainly the Soil and Water Report focuses on the toe of the
bluff; and you said your plan deals with that? You gave us two el~ents; one is the rock
revetment, and the other is plantings on the bluff face. Do I have the elements of your
plan? Is that it?
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BRUCE ANDERSON: The only thing that I would add is that the Soil Conservation
Report places an emphasis on the run-off retaining wall thing that I think is perhaps a
1/ttte bit.
MEMBER TORTORA: That's what I was going to ask you about, because they say
upper scope, it has to be set back, the retmning wall would have to be, the concrete wall
would have to be removed.
BRUCE ANDERSON: That's simply not the case. We know that from the vegetation.
If you have that effect, you would see the bluff denuded on the top, we really wouldn't
see the denuded on the bottom. That is no~ to say tlmt it's not an impact, because it is.
All I'm sa.ymg is, let's ad&'ess the , bemuse we're in. this proceeding and we have
an oppommity to do so.
MEMBER TORTORA: Bruce, I'm not au expert, but I do value expert opinions. Have
yon run your ideas by Jay
BRUCE ANDERSON: I could try.
MEMBERTORTORA: Wejust go it today, I'm just re-reading it too.
BRUCE ANDERSON: I know Jay, I've dealt with him before, l~m sure, there's no doubt
that this is exactly the type of plan that the~re looking for, because I've dealt with them
[n the past.
MEMBER TORTORA: I'm sure you have. It's just I am not au expert and I do know
this is a sensitive area, and we want to, all the Board Members want to do the right thing.
I personally feel comfortable with, if it's not inappropriate for you to discuss your plans
with him and get some kind of a, even a letter that says that that the plan submitted would
negate the need for the ruling of a retaimng wall and the recommendation.
BRUCE ANDERSON: The retaining wall he is speaking of is not the one up here.
There's actually a small little bulkhead wall down in the slope shown on the survey.
That's part of the D.E.C. condition of building the stairway. So we're in agreement on
that. There is a small bulkhead. I don't want you to confuse that. What I was hoping
though, better than my opinion, his opinion, our opinion, is a showing that these things
are done successfully over (inaudible). My purpose of bringing in (inaudible)
MEMBER TORTORA: I'm sorry I was not able to come to the inspection, but t would
like to know that you've made this proposal, and I understand that you also proposed
leaving the pool, we're going to get to that.
MEMBER COLLINS: I had wanted to, what you're just doing, was to pin down the
elements of the bluff, per say, before we get on to sighting of the property.
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~ BRUCE ANDERSON: (hands out documentation to all Members). We have plenty for
~,_~ everyone. You will notice a revision date of July 18, 2001. on the survey before you.
., There was some confusion as to the actual setback, of the blt~ff, which is gradual, so it
involves of professional . We have highlighted ajad located topographicallythe
crest of the blv3'f. You will see that on here. You will also see the retaining wall in our
bluff re-vegetarian plan. What you manage to see is. that the pool was originally laid out
at 43 feet from the easterly return of the existing central wall. That has now been moved
back to the and that the house, then existing at 65 feet from the topographical
crest of the bluff as measured on the easterly portion of the site was relocated from 65 to
70 feet that from the topograph~cal~ er,est, o~the bluff. Keeping m,xmnd tha~ It s. sti~ll shows
the existing ~eptic system to the then ~sting house and ~i~o0t that was m,~ach, much
closer. I ~, what it ~¥es. you £s a level of comfort a~d a ~6vel ~l~at your regulation of
the site progressed, in that, through t~s process you ~tetually retreat back from the
topographical crest of the bluff. I also want to point out on other design chaage,.and that
is the proposed garage wklch was subsequently relocated ~om 5 feet off the property
line. to 10 feet offthe property line. Wedid that as an accommodation to t e neighbors to
the west, the Niekolas. W6 discussed that in the hallway ~r the~ previous hem~g on
this. In the Iast hearing we heard from virtually every adjaeen~ neighbor and one of them
a couple Of doors down. It's very clear to me that everyane is satisfied as to the house
and pool location. Even under prewous [inaudible). I couldn't imagine we would have a
problem with the location of the structure, particularly given the fact. that of this historical
location. What I hope I've done is glven you a level of comt3ort regarding the bluff itself.
We're quite (inaudible on that, hopefully to your satisfaction that it can be done
~,~ successfully. That would conclude our presentation.
CHAIRMAN: We had talked about the tying ofthe C.O. to the re-nurturing of the bluff.
Basically, as you are aware, we don't really have jurisdiction in that particular area. Our
jurisdiction starts at the top of the bluff and moves that 100-foot landward. However, a.
decision of this Board is so important to, and is so relhang upon the re-nurturing of the
reconstruction of the toe of this bluff and the scoring that you were mentioning, if that's
the proper word, that I think we have no other choice but to do something. Let me just
give you a brief reason why, okay. Let's assume that we collectively garner tba-ee votes
on this Board and the decision, in the near future, is granted. Mr. and Mrs. McAllister,
for some strange reason, decide that they no longer want to live on the Sound side; they
want to now live on the Bay side. They now sell this very beautiful piece ofproperty to a
second party and, for some strange reason, ttds second party builds a house in the
location that this Board grants and forgets about the re-nurturing of the bluff. So that's
why we have to, it's almost like a 280A aspect. Undek the 280A aspect, we suggest to the
applicants that they don't do minor improvements on the right of way; so that when the
fight of way gets beat up by a fifty ton vehicle going over it~ that those don't have to be
re-done agmn, at a very costly situation. I just want to reiterate that that's my concern at
this point, that it's A, B and C, all as one part.
BRUCE ANDERSON: Right, my response to that when you ta~k about the re-vegetation
of the bhifl5 we're really on the same side; because the scale and type of when you see the
house is built, this is a large event as part of the McAllister's. It is to their advantage to
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protect that bluff. I have spoken with them, we met out in the hallway at the previous
hearing, had contact before; they are completely in favor of doing this. This is something
that they are perfectly satisfied in doing. As you know, when you granl a variance it runs
with the lan& So if for whatever reason, let's say death in the fanfily or somethingof the
nature that does l~appen, and it reverts m another party~ that party is going to build that
house, tn that location; subject to this variance, and subject to the conditions. So, I ttfink
the Board has a good comfort level. As far as the variance goes in general, keep in mind
that it is indeed fortunate, that webce before this Board for a variance. Forget for a
moment the house ang the pool that were there, and alt that stu£f that. we've already put
in~ it's already centrally located 1 O0 feet from th~ btu~ff~ they've never liar~ tyrob~erns with
this. before. This Board woul~ h.a~e no, anc~ the Town wo~'k[ have n~ .abi~ to address
any of the health safety aspects that are p~ted byh'~'~a bl~uff that's unstable: So the fact
that weYebefore you. I'think (jmand"~bl~).
CHAIRMAN: When you refer to the word unstable, you're referring to the lower half of
it whi5h kas been, you use the phrase denuded. Is that correct?
BRUCE ANDERSON: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN: Let's go from the French Drain back, from the French Dram back we are
going to see whatever type of retaining wall is placed around the pool so that the pool, at
a level position as it stands in front of the bluff, will be supported. Entirely around this
pool, up to the deck area, wilt be what, lawn?
BRUCE ANDERSON: We don't have a total landscape, but lawn is certainly fine. It's
certainly supportive in your reports (inaudible).
CHAIRMAN: We're not talking about; we're talking about living beings as opposed to
non-living things.
MEMBER TORTORA: What about drainage for the pool?
BRUCE ANDERSON: Yes, yes.
MEMBER TORTORA: Yes. what?
BRUCE ANDERSON: (inaudible) dry well. Generally speaking you don't want to take
pool water ('inaudible}
CHAIRMAN: We need you to use the mike Bruce.
MEMBER TORTORA: How long are the French Drains, are they 2 x 3?
BRUCE ANDERSON: They're 2 x 3 and they run the entire along the entire perimeter of
the property.
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TOWN OF S OUTFfOLD
MEMBER TORTORA: What happens when the French Drains get?
BRUCE ANDERSON: All they do is they infiltrate~ You mean the contents of the
French Drain, grave~ and rock. The air betWeen the particles are expanded. That's the
capacity as~opposed to compacted earth, which has very little space between the
particles. (Mr. Anderson conversation, almost enth-elyinaudible.)
MEMBER TORTORA: I know they eventually do gel caught with debris, and leaves
and muck that you accumulate and eventually create mulch over period of years, they do.
BRUCE~ANDERSON: Well, if you look ar the way it's designed if, in the event, it were
to be clogged twenty years down the road, what happens is the water actually becomes
encountered by the walt itself. There would be an interest on everyone's part should
some clogging occur to reactivate and
MEMBER TORTORA: Well it depends on the depth, this is only three feet deep,
correct?
BRUCE ANDERSON: The capacity is more than that of the . You would see
a foot would encounter water before you actually go over the top of the bluff. Which
would be an unacceptable situation in any upscale development.
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any other questions in this here?
'- MEMBER COLLINS: Oh yes, are we open for questions now?
CHAIRMAN: Surely. We're going to start with Mr. Dinizio first, any questions Mr.
Dinizio?
MEMBER D1NIZIO: No, you can go ahead.
CHAIRMAN: Okay, Miss Collins?
MEMBER COLLINS: Reviewing the hearing from last week I concluded that the Board
trod not pressed you at all on the question of why did the house have to be where you
want it, rather than further back. As you know, the law requires us m consider whether
there is a feas~le alternative. I was really troubled when I thought back over the hearing
because we focused so much on the erosion of the bluff issues, that I thought we kind of
took that without talking about it. So IYn glad, that I'm sorry I wasn't there Saturday
morning, I have been out on the land, I walked all over it and looked at it. I just wasn't
there Saturday mormng. I gathered that you and the Chairman talked about that issue
while you were out there on Saturday, and I'm certainly glad that you did because we
have granted bluff setbacks for new houses on very much shallower sound properties,
where we had them back further than this at 80 feet or so. I really was concerned about
hearing the rationale of why the house, I guess the bottom line is why can't the house be
100 feet back? Simple question.
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BRUCE ANDERSON: Well, the rationale is when the Building Permit was filed; we had
an immediate response,
MEMBER COLLINS: We're not hearing you.
BRUCE ANDERSON: When the Building Permit was filed, we had an immediate
response by the Building Department that suggests the only limitation was a disconnect
letter from the power company. That was interpreted by the builder to mean that was the
only outstanxling~item in th~s Building Permit. It was quickly obtained, mxbmitted anti the
orfi7 tli/ng tlmt hgppened:here was that weshould not have knocked down. the house uiSfil
the Building permit was i~ hand. Because locaficm, you conld~ have
expanded that hou~se, yo~* co~uld have lmilt within the exact same~£o0tpri~t. You could
have completely g~tted and remodeled and so forth. Because there would have been no
increase :non-conformity created in doing that, . C~ranted it was a mistake of
his, but the desii'e now is to essentially put these things back in a more responsible
location, that offer the same view, this with the same development pattern that has existed
over this area for decades.
MEMBER COLLINS: Well, thank you for the statement, and I understand what you're
saying. I'm not sure how sympathetic I am to it, and I would say that I think that
knocking down a house and rebuilding in a footprint when the footprint was ~on-
conforming is not a done deal by any means and we hear those cases~
BRUCE ANDERSON: My point is could I not have completely.
MEMBER COLLINS: Oh yes, of course you could.
BRUCE ANDERSON: Could have put an addition on the side of the house.
MEMBER COLLINS: Right, you certainly could have.
MEMBER TORTORA: Not if it were closer to the bluff.
MEMBER COLLINS: No. on the landward side he's saying.
MEMBER TORTORA: Not if it were closer than 100 feet because the new interpretation
by the Building Department now.
BRUCE ANDERSON: He told me we were on ve,ry thin ice and thatts because there's a
specific section in the Zoning Code. as I mentioned the last hearing, that permits this
provided no new non-conformity is
MEMBER COLLINS: Well, that's a separate ~ssue. I realize that because that's not what
you're doing. I know you came in, in effect, saying we understood we could do this and
now we've had the rug pulled out from under us and that's not fair. I mean, that was kind
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of the message that we got. I really'wanted to hear you make a statement about the
sighting of the house, precisely because we have generally taken the view that they
should be further back from the bluffthan people generally want them to be. I think yom'
statement is helpful.
BRUCE ANDERSON: And also what I said before is forturmtety, the silver lining on
this. is to give this Board the opportunity to actaally address the bluff than it would not
have had if these structures were 100 feet back.
MEMBER COLLI2qS: That's a cute argument. I'think I~would say, i~we were debating~
whch we are not, that the owners concern about the bluff is sort ofipfiramount. People
aren't going m 8pond this kind of money, on this kind of property, without making sure
ttre bluff is okay. That's my feeling.
BRUCE ANDERSON: But you also realize that it is presented for the first time tonight.
I don't know why, I mean we came in very late in the process, I'm not saying it wouldn't
have occurred prior to my involvement in everything; but typically what we do ~n our
business is if we dnn't put stairways down a bluff} as indicated with the Sterns, we protect
the problem. Because if the property owner has the financial.
means to implement such a plan, it certainly would.
MEMBER TORTORA: The only other question I had was the new plan is now; you're
still at 10 feet from the side yard?
BRUCE ANDERSON: Yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: That's acceptable. That's not evan a variance.
MEMBER COLLINS: I think he needs 20 on a bluffthat size.
BRUCE ANDERSON: We represented 5 feet on our initial application, which on that
very same survey the adjacant garage is 3 feet.
MEMBER TORTORA: You need 20 feet according ro the Notice of Disapproval.
BRUCE ANDERSON: That's correct. My point is we have represented 5 feet, the
adjacent garage on the property to be less than some 3 feet, 2 t/2 feet from the property
line. We then made a revision to our application to move it 10 feet at a deference to the
neighbor, our concern being we really don't want to put it 20 feet from the property line
because then it would disrupt the site plan and incurred upon the house as you look at it
from the south, in other words
MEMBER TORTORA: Well, I don't think I agree with you really because you have
quite a large width of the property, and the size of the proposed driveway more than
allow you to meet that 20 foot setback. Please u:y to convince me otherwise, other than
some esthetic reason.
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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
BRUCE ANDERSON: Well, the reason is consistent with the character of the
neighborhood if the person 'supports it, and for those
reasons, the environmental consequence looking at it from that
standpoint it wouldseem to us m protect the
MEMBER TORTORA: What do you mean consistent with the neighborhood?
BRUCE ANDERSON: It's non-conforming, but most conforming than what you see
fight across that property.
CHAIRMAN: We're gcdng to yield to altemate relief, depending upon what we do when
we get into the del~erat/on session.
MEMBER TORTORA: What you're saying it's not consistent with the neighborhood.
It's consistent with an adjoining property owner, one property owner.
BRUCE ANDERSON; Right, to give you an example, the attached garage of the
neighbors. I don't know where else you're going to look~
CHAIRMAN: Okay, we'll see what develops throughout the hearing and we thank yom
BRUCE ANDERSON: Do you have a sense of where this might.
CHAIRMAN: No, I think we just have to figure out whether we're going to close the
hearing, and that's the first thing. So let's see what develops. Is there anybody else that
would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody else like to speak against the
application? Anything you would like to add, Mr. Price?
GORDON PRICE: The garage if placed, if it were further toward the house, that you
come up the driveway which is the existing driveway on the original property, the garage,
if you bring it over any further, the garage will begin to impede on the clear view of the
house, which is main re-estheffc of benefit of it. That's why we were keeping it over to
the side like that. That's my only comment.
CHAIRMAN: Is there any reason, on this Board, why we should not close this hearing m
this time?
MEMBER TORTORA: Is there any desire on the Board to address the Booth letter, the
concerns raised in that letter?
CHAIRMAN: Have you seen the Booth letter?
BRUCE ANDERSON: No, I've spoke with him at length.
( .... MEMBER COLLiNS: This is a letter dated July 16th, one page, single-spaced.
Page 12 July 19, 2001
ZBA PUBLIC HEARING TRANSCRIPT
TOWN OF SOUTFiOLD
CHAIRMAN: We can g~ve you a copy it.
MICHAEL McALLISTER: I would like to see that.
CHAIRMAN: We're going to have to make a copy of that for you Mr. McAllister.
MEMBER TORTORA: He's very much against the revetment.
MEMBER DtNJZIO: I spoke to somebody concerning th4s revetment~ Just so you know,
I did speak to~, I found Out the person-that you're going to have do it, I didn't speak to him
but I spoke to ~ worker ofl~. He explained to me what it is and I cormur with what you
said before that. This is the least intrusive way tq try m conserve some o,f the energy that
hits that bank. While t not convinced that it wouldn!t affect the neighbors on either side;
I'm sure it woutd~'t hurt: them as much as. putti~,,g ~,h~lkhead ~ sometlfing like that l
wanted youto know that I dirk because I know I r~aise~t that quesfion~
BRUCE ANT)ERSON: I appreciate that.
MEMBER D1NIZIO: I don't want you worrying about it anymore as far as that is
concemed.
CHAIR_MAN: Thank you. Is that all Jim? How about that we close the heating pending
receipt of com~nen~s from either the agent for the applicant or the applicant regarding Mr.
Booth's letter.
MEMBER COLLINS: With a time limit?
CHAIRMAN: Yes~ With a time limit, no more than two'weeks.
MICHAEL McALLISTER: I can read that letter right now.
CHAIRMAN: I understand that, but it takes a little getting used to. I'm not saying that.
We're going to digest the material Mr. McAllister, and there's a great possibility that we
may want to comment on something ourselves.
MICHAEL McALLISTER: I understand that. My issue is this. The material has been
given. Whatever issues you favor or doesn't favor, obviously the residents of Southold
enforces us to be heard and the Board should hear it. As far as the digestion of anything
else, it's before you. Now I'm not saying that Board doesn't have the right to take as
much time as the3/d like to make a decision, but I also an a resident, not as of yet,
because obviously I do not have a house, but therefore I am not a resident, but I am a
taxpayer. I understand the choices of what sort of time frame the Board needs. What
more needs to be given to the Board so an answer can be g~ven. If the answer is no, I can
live with that. But I feel that you have everything that you may or may not need. You've
been to the site, you several times, from what I understand. As far as the bluff, of course.
Page 13 ~ July 19, 2001
TOY92q OF SOUTHOLD
the most important thing to is to protect my property. I think Mr. Anderson made it very
clear that I'm forced to account to the bluff Now whether the Board wants to believe I'm
an honorable person of word, that's,up to the'Board.
CHAIRMAN: We take everybody as an honorable person.
MICHAEL McALLISTER: That being said, the Board really has no jurisdiction over the
bluff: I've been given permission already, by all the proper authorities, to do what it may
or may not want to do with the bluff I'm not going against it. becanse I've been told by
the D.E.C, .and the people ~at.allegedty should know, that that could harm the~ bluff and
that eould"harm myne[ghbors. That's why I'm not doing it The onI, y reason I am doing
the revetment is because they to~d me that's the best way thing to do, for myself a~d my
neiglSb'ors. If they foist me the best thing to do was to just to leave it and whatever
happens over time, happens over time, that's fine by me. Visually up to this point. I've
done exactly what anyone who is a lmowledgeable person would-be these sort of things,
l~ve paid consultants, architects because I've never built a house. IYe never dealt with
bls,fi7 before. That being said I've done, to this point, cveryth'mg I'm supposed to do to
make the bluff stable, to make the property as attractive as possible, ow I drmt know
qnite now what the Board needs to make a decision.
CHAIRMAN: Let me
MICHAEL McALLISTER: What they need, what I need ro do and when a decision can
be reached.
CHAIRMAN: Let me just give you a brief analysis of what we did here tonight okay.
This was a deliberation session, for the purpose of making decisions from the prior
meeting, What we gratuitously did was allow you to hold a public hearing here, because
you are the applicant. This gentleman is your agent, but we very simply allowed you to
hold a p~blic hearing at om' deliberation session. Which immediately meant, on August
164h, did not have to continue this hearing. Because we will be sitting here with
toothpicks up, keeping our eyes open, because we have twenty hearings on that night or
thereabouts. At this particular point, there are a couple of Board Members that still want
to comment on a couple of things. So that is the reason why, I mean amongst themselves.
they may ~vant to talk about the specific project in itself I have no idea what the
situation is. L myself, have no problem closing this heating tonight. I am gratuitously
asking them if there is anything else that they want from you or if they want comments
from you regarding Mr. Booth's letter whatever the case might be. Wlfich is a little
lengthy, and it may take figuring out or something on your part or on your agent's part on
making a decision on how you ~vant to answer this olxler. My suggestion is that if we
close the heating tonight, that we will be ready to make a decision on August 16th and we
will make that decision or at least start the deliberation on it a decision prior to the start or
the commencement of that meeting. So if the meeting starts au 6:30, at 6:15 we will start
the deliberation of what we are going to do. At fids particular point. I'm not sure tonight,
that the Board is ready to close this heating and start deliberations on this matter at this
time. I will tell you how welt, and I will reiterate again that because of Mr Anderson and
Page 14 -July 19, 2001
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tOWN OF SOUTHOLD
because of we know he probably worked tirelessly on this over the past week, because he
gave qs fi lot of information tonight, based upon our meeting of last Saturday, that he has
done a pretty good job in explaining m us exactly what has to be done with the further
information he has given us. So we are exactly one month up on this application, based
upon What he gave us hlmady. So don't be concerned that iiwe are just going to ask you
to comment on Mr. Booth's letter, because I am ready to address this on August I6th
which is the next regularly scheduled meeting. That'S the best I can do at this particular
point. I can't do anybetter.
BRUCE ,ANDERSON: My understanding of your suggestion is that yon want to close
this to oral or leave it open fop written comments. If one of your fine staff will fax it over
in the' morning.
CHAIRMAN: We'll give you copies before you leave.
BRUCE ANDERSON: We'll have that thing addresged.
CHAIRMAN: Well, I think that's the issue. I think we're going to close it totally based
upon on everything, other than the comments that you might have of Mr. Booth's letter or
any other further comments you want to make. We're just putting a ten-day time limit on
it, ten-business day time limil on it. So by next Frid,amy, which is really seven or eight
days. I think that's really the way to go, which is the 27 . [ think that's what I suggest at
this point.
MEMBER COLLINS: So you're proposing we close the hearing to verbal testimony and,
in fact, we close the heating to all testimony except that the Board offers the apphcant the
opportunity to reply, in writing, to the comments from Mr. Booth regarding the revennent
if they wish to do, and if they wish to do so they do so. Is that what you're proposing?
CHAIRMAN: And if there is any question of any Board Member that after they've
looked over all this documentation they have the right to request an answer from you on
this.
BRUCE ANDERSON: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN: Because, I have to be honest with your Mr. McAIlister, this is, your agent
has done a wonderful job in g~ving us everything that we need at this point, Because we
know the backgrotmd of Mr. Anderson. He usually, this may be a play on words, he
usually leaves no stone untamed. However, after looking at the whole thing tonight,
between last week and this week, there may be something that we might want to
commem on. We want to have the ability on Monday or Tuesday, to fax him over a letter
based upon that. that'g all. Case closed. Right.
MEMBER COLLINS: We would do that anyway. Between the close of the hearing.
Page 15 -July 19, 2001
ZBA PUB'[IC EIEAK1NG TRANSCRIPT
TOWN OF SOUTHOD
CHAIRMAN: The hearing is closed.
:MEMBER COLLINS: When we close the hearing and are having deh~berafion, we were
always ~ree to ask for ali¢le more input il'we need it.
CHAIRMAN: But I'm only explaining that to the applicant, just so he is aware of that
situation. So I'll make a motion closing the hearing, pending receipt of any comments
regarding Mr. Booth's lett~r~ now let's go with just next Friday, which is the 27th.
SEE MINUTES FOR RESOLUTION
END OF PUBLIC HEARING ~ 8:45 P.M.