Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-08/18/1999 HEARINGPg. 1 3 5 8 10 17 19 22 27 31 INDEX TRANSCRIPT OF ZBA HEARINGS HELD August 18, 1999 Appl. No. 4734-REGINALD MINOR Appl Appl Appl Appl Appl Appl No. 4730-CAROLE DONLIN No. 4732-RICHARD O'TOOLE No. 4733-VITO CARNEVALE No. 4735-MICHAEL FEDELE No. 4737-ELYSE BORAK No. 4738-ROBERT TAPP & NICHOLAS ELLIS Appl. No. 4725-& 4729- MATTITUCK LIBRARY Appl. No. 4731-BOBBIE ZORN Appl. No. 4699-LISA JEROME Appl. No. 4724-JOEL & MAXINE HIRSCH Page 1 -August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Transcript of Public Hearings August 18, 1999 Southold Town Board of Appeals (Prepared by Lucy Farrell from Tape Recordings) (Note: .Tapes are inaudible due to heavy static). All Members present. 6:35 P. M. Appl. No. 4734 - REGINALD and SHEILA MINOR This is a request for a Variance under Article Ill-A, Section 100-30A.4 (and Sec. 100-33) based upon the Building Department's July 15, 1999 Notice of Disapproval regarding a double accessory shed structure in the side yard (and' partly in the front yard) at 360 Stephenson Road (Pvt. Road #1), Orient; 1000- t7-1-12. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'd like to welcome everyone here. This is a regular meeting of the Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals. I'll ask if anybody is here regarding this request for a storage building. Mr. Cuddy, how are you tonight? MR. CUDDY: I'm fine (inaudible due to poor tape recording). CHAIRMAN: Could someone check the mike, is it on? MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes. It's on. MR. CUDDY: Mr. Minor is also here. They have a problem with the shed and whether it is a side yard. It fronts on two streets. One on the east and one on the west: There is no rear yard. ( inaudible statements). We have two requests. One is the distance from the road which has a slight curve. One shed is existing a0d the reason it is there the applicant was told by someone in the Building Department that he could have a 100 sq. ft. shed without a permit but said nothing about the need for a variance. Now that we want to enlarge the storage shed by adding another shed, we find that a variance is required. We ask the Board to make a determination that it will be permitted in the side yard, which is large and really applicant's rear yard. ( inaudible statements due to static on tape). This site is long but narrow. The house is set back quite a bit and (). (Mr. Cuddy continued with lengthy presentation which was not audible on tape). ' Chairman: We'll start with Member Dinizio. (No comment). Member Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: I just have a procedural question, Mr. Cuddy. I've seen the property and I have seen the shed. And I understand that the shed will go Page 2 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals back to back with it. applies to the two buildings as a package, 10 x 24, MR. CUDDY: Yes. CHAIRMAN: And they are both one story? MR. CUDDY: Yes. They are both(). CHAIRMAN: Member Tortora? (No comments). MEMBER HORNING: (Inaudible). (Asked question structure.) MR. CUDDY (confirmed shed is not located near the pool). I gather from what you said with this variance request is that right? Member Horning? about a small pool Motion was made by Chairman Goehringer, seconded by Member Collins, and duly carried', to CLOSE the hearing, pending deliberations later. VOTE OF THE BOARD: AYES: all (5-0). Page 3 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of. Appeals 6:55 P.M. - Appl. No. 4730 - CAROLE DONLIN This is a request for a Variance under Article Ill-A, Section 100-30A.3 and Section 100-244B based upon the Building Department's May 6, 1999, Notice of D sappy:oval regarding a carport addition with total combined side yards at less than Code requirement at 910 New Suffolk Avenue, Mattituck,; 1000-114-12-8. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Good evening, how are you? Would you state your name for the record. MS. DONLIN: Carole Donlin. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do? Tell us why you would like us this attached. MS. DONLIN: Well I would like to be closer to the house (). CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there any reason why you couldn't move it back more towards the rear of the house? MS. DONLIN: No because (inaudible due to static on tapes). CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I notice that the carport is open on two sides, and it's approximately 3 feet at its closest point to the property line. It's 12 x 20 and it's one story. We'll start with Mr. Homing, any questions? MEMBER HORNING: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: The carport when it's constructed really covers where the driveway is now, but essentially driveway runs as far to the right is what the direction is, to the right when you're looking at the house. The driveway runs about as far as the carport is going to go? MS. DONLIN: Well, the carport runs through that. MEMBER COLLINS: No, I'm talking about the lateral. Page 4 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MS. DONLIN:' Yes. MEMBER COLLINS: OK, thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, we'll see what develops. question? MEMBER HORNING: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: MEMBER COLLINS: Trees. Yes, you have a What is on the boundary line for the carport? The rear side yard. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Ms. Donlin. Anybody else like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Seeing no hands I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER TORTORA: Second. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor? Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 5 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 6:58 P.M. -Appl. No. 4732 - RICHARD O'TOOLE This is a request for a Variance under Article XXIII, Section 100-239.4B based upon the Building Department's July 1, 1999, Notice of Disapproval regarding a pool in..,a rear yard location, at less than 75 feet from the existing bulkhead Location of Property: 2280 Ole Jule Lane, Mattituck,: 1000-122-4-10. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: There's somebody here for O'Toole. How do you do. Would you state your name for the record? MS. MESSIANO: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We'll start with Mr. Dinizio. Any questions? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I haven't any. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: Well, the first question I intended to ask was where the septic system is? I should say, that I think there is room on that property to put the pool in more conforming location and naturally where the septic system is ~s part of what's possible. I think that everyone questioned, why do we have this provision in our statute that says you have to be 75 feet back from the bulkhead and everyone has their own answers. But, I guess I'd like you to know, that I think that property like theirs, one of the reason is, to keep the pool not so visible to the neighbors and I am concerned abo~ut the ( ) over. MS. MESSIANO: MEMBER COLLINS: That would be. Their thinking would be laterally but still outward the septic system, closer to the bulkhead. MS. MESSIANO: MEMBER COLLINS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: Page 6 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MS. MESSIANO: MEMBER HORNING: MS. MESSIANO: I'm curious CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What they have, Lydia, is a deck on the second story. It's basically a porch, which extends about 4 feet in back of the house. So, the house is a high ranch anyway. It pushes it back to a certain degree. The other issue is, do they have town water in there? MS. MESSIANO: There is town water and (). CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Because it certainly effects the position of the cesspool system, also. But, it doesn't make demands on both sides. MS. MESSIANO: I believe they are willing to move the cesspool system if they have to (). CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right, so what you're leaving for us to do, is. basically an alternate location if we don't agree on this location, so we'll do that and you said you would deal with alternate relief? MS. MESSIANO: Yes. Placing the pool (). CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, as you know we work with unanimity I don't think we know which way the pool is going to go at this point. I think it's what we can. agree to in reference to the distance to the bulkhead. So, bearing in mind that there' is going to be change in the water cesspool which really negates that 100 to 150 foot distance- the cesspool in the future coming that possibly the movement of one cesspool which could be more situation. As I said, which is really somewhat the distance is So long as you understand that, we'll address that issue as an offer We'll see what develops throughout the hearing. Thank you. Anybody else would like to speak in favor? AnYbody like to speak against? Mr. White do you have any questions you would like to address? MR. WHITE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. & Mrs. we have one other question we'd just like to ask you. You are aware that the new figure is going to be in Page 7 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town' Board of Appeals the building, purely the decking area around. So in other words, lets take throw out a figure of 40 feet. If it is an above the ground deck, that means that where the decking starts at that point. (?) CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, then it's open? (?) CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No question , very good, thank you Sir. Good night Bob. Hearing no further comment I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER COLLINS: Second. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor? Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 8 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:11 P. M. - Appl. No. 4733 - VITO CARNEVALE This is a request for a Variance under Article XXlII, Section 100-239.4A based upon the Building Department's July 7, 1999, Notice of Disapproval regarding a porch addition at less than 100 feet from top of bluff or bank of Long Island Sound. Location of Property: 1500 Hyatt Road, Southold; 1000-50-1-7. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is a porch addition. Who is here to represent him. Good evening Sir. Thank you for unlocking the gate. What would you like to tell us? MR. CARNEVALE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's an open porch, right? MR. CARNEVALE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, we did receive a letter from Suffolk County Soil & Water Conservation, that you're aware of and they evaluated your bluff for us Have you seen a copy of this? MR. CARNEVALE: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We'll start with Mr. Homing? Any questions of Mr. Carnvale? MEMBER HORNING: Are you MR. CARNEVALE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: In other words to say it isn't exactly. It's in the general , particularly On the west side of the house. Sure that would help Mr. Horning. We've all been there. Mr. Homing comes from another island to come here and assist us. Thank you. How high approximately is the deck you're proposing? MR. CARNEVALE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: bluff because I can see the MEMBER TORTORA: No. It does not appear to be elevated. It's too high a Mrs. Tortora, question? Page 9 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN. GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: No questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMB~R DINIZlO: You say it's ? MR. CARNEVALE: MEMBER DINIZIO: You're stepping down, stepping down also from the house? MR. CARNEVALE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's as high as it's going? This is basically over the front, over the rear steps coming out of glass sliding doors? These pictures are invaluable to answer your questions. I jumped over the fence. MR. CARNEVALE: You did. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Any other further questions of this gentleman? The deck will remain open? It will not in no time do you intend to close it? MR. CARNEVALE: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You'll have a supported railing or whatever is required by the Building Department ? MR. CARNEVALE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We'll see what develops throughout the hearing, thank you; 'Can we: keep these pictures? Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Hearing no further comment I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER COLLINS: Second. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor? Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 10 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:19 P.M. -Appl. No. 4735 - MICHAEL FEDELE This is a request for a Lot Waiver under Article II, Section 100-26, based upon the Building Department's May 26, 1999, Notice of Disapproval regarding lot referre~l, to as 705 Fanning Road, New Suffolk, County Tax Map Parcel 1000- 117-4-24, merged pursuant to Section 100-25A with an adjoining parcel referred to as 625 Fanning Road, New Suffolk, N.Y.; Parcel 1000-117-4-23. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is a waiver. Is there someone here? Good evening. Would you just state your name for the record. MS. WICKHAM: Gail Wickham: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio, any questions? MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, the only way that they found out by MS. WICKHAM: MEMBER DINIZIO: MS. WICKHAM: MEMBER DINIZIO: In other words, MS. WICKHAM: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: Yeah, I would certainly agree with your statement, that it is the lot although next door and obviously kept the condition which does not allow to do . Certainly, it is not an part of the research property. I just want to make sure I heard this right. This is a family transfer right? Mrs. Fedele is a niece of the ? MS. WICKHAM: MEMBER COLLINS: So that's why there weren't any outside lawyers I guess looking over people's shoulders. I'm just curious. MS. WlCKHAM: That's correct and I think although I attempted to check my record that the lawyer Page 11 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER COLLINS: I saw the name on the deed and it appeared to be the same firm that had represented Mr. Caruso in earlier matters, so we see had this happened. This is the usual story of the merger of debt. It's just circumstances are slightly different. Thank you. MS. WICKHAM: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. HORNING? MEMBER HORNING: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We thank you very much. We'll see what develops throughout the hearing. Is there anybody would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Seeing no hands I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER COLLINS: Second. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor? Page 12 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 13 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:27 P.M. - Appl. No. 4737 - ELYSE BORAK This is a request for a Variance under Article XXIV, Section 100-244 based upon the ~July 21, 1999, Notice of Disapproval regarding a proposed addition with a combined side yard setbacks of less than 35 feet. Location of Property, 8045 Peconic Bay Boulevard, Laurel; 1000-126-9-14~1. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there someone here that would like to discuss this? How you do? Ms. BORAK: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No problem. Don't get nervous. I'm, I'm actually you know, very familiar with this area. I grew up on Sigby Road, which is right around the corner, so. MS. BORAK: Right, and this is the area MR. MILNER: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is a one story addition? MR. MILNER: Yes, it is. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, we'll start with Mr. Homing, any question? MEMBER HORNING: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: MR. MILNER: MEMBER TORTORA: MR. MILNER: MEMBER TORTORA: MEMBER COLLINS: First, thank you for staking it. It's very nice when people stake it. It's a big help. I really have no particular problems with this case. But, the number, numbers that just got thrown around back and forth in kind of Page 14 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals incomplete .sentences leaves me feeling that our record may be a bit unclear. i~m looking at the drawing that's on a survey done by Van Tuyl and I think it's 'g61. MR. MILNER: MEMBER COLLINS: No, no, let me just say what I'm reading off of here because these are the numbers the Building Department used. On the, we'll call it the west side of the property towards Bray Avenue because the property line is at an angle to the house. The closest setback according to this drawing is 8 feet and Iiii accept that it's 8 feet. Well, alright, it's on the order of 8 feet. On that side at the front of the house because of the pie shape nature of the lot, the setback is greater. I think you mentioned 14 or something like that. When you look at it from the road you see - MR. MILNER: It's not very accurate. MEMBER COLLINS: But this looks like what II saw when I went over there. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You couldn't pick up 8 inches though anyway. MEMBER COLLINS: No, no, what is he say-. This business about thing being reversed in front of the rear - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'm saying that the angle of the property on the west side is actually in reverse of what the survey is showing. He's saying, that at its closest point, it's really in the front of the house that jog in the front. Not the jog in the back. MEMBER COLLINS: Oh, OK, anyway, on the west side there is a setback on the order of 8 feet, and on the east side you're going to put on a 15 foot addition and that's going to leave you with roughly 20 feet. It's mentioned 21 feet, 20 feet more or less of setback on the east side and the two added together are 28 and that's the number that's in the Building Department denial, right? I just wanted to get straight which numbers are which here because the east side setback of 20 feet as I think you said, I'm not sure is as we know enough, it's the combined setback, it's not enough. OK, I just wanted to get that, I felt that our record had gotten kind of confused there and I just wanted to make sure that we know what we're looking at, thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: But when you feel when all is said and done, you're going to have 20 feet building to the property? Is it 20 or is it going to be 217 Page 15 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. MILNER: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is less than 21. MEMBER DINIZIO: MR. MILNER: MEMBER DINIZIO: No, no, no, I just, you know, this way you know, whatever reason you can make of that, is a decision, you know, it may solve problems later on when you're arguing on the job CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What is the time issue on this? MR. MILNER: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It probably would have been September 15th or OK, so again, as I mentioned to the prior applicant, in the worst case scenario I'll see you both and I thank you for your pictures. YOu sure you don't want these back? Thank you. Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this applicant? Anybody like to speak against the applicant? Yes. MS. WICKHAM: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Wickham, do you have any idea how close your client's property is to ? M:S. WICKHAM: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's a one stow house ? I'1! be right With you. Any questions of Ms. Wickham? MS. BORAK: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is the sunroom heated all year round? MS. BORAK: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: MS. BORAK: There's no heat on CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there any intention of closing it? Page 16 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MS. BORAK: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. Ms. Wickham did you want to see this? the only copy I have. I'm going to need that back. MS. WICKHAM: On the west side is a It's CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This we did not have sketched in. We do need that back. MEMBER COLLINS: Mr. Chairman? I just want to respond to something he just said about overhang. It seems to me what is before us, is the question setback from the property line. That's what's before us and I don't think that you're going to tell folks sought of how to design that extension. You're going to tell them how to be from the property line. MS. WICKHAM: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Are there any further comments from anyone? Hearing no further comment I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER TORTORA: Second. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ali in favor? Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 17 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:45 P.M. - Appl. No 4738 - ROBERT TAPP & NICHOLAS ELLIS This is a request for a Variance under Article XXIV, Section 100-244 based upon the July 20, 1999, Notice of Disapproval regarding location of a proposed garage in a front yard at less than 40 feet at 275 West Road, Cutchogue; 1000-- 110-7-1~1.1. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Schwartz do you want to tell us why you're planning to put the garage in this MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes. To allow access in order to put the garage doors CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The garage is one story in .height? The front looks like it has some storage on the above the part storage area, storage area and it's approximately what size? MR. SCHWARTZ: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well Mr. Homing, any question if this gentleman or the applicant? MEMBER HORNING: No, I don't have any. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Totora? MEMBER TORTORA: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: Well of course I had the same thing on my mind which is, why, does it.really have to be in a spot that is in violation of the Zoning Code requires a variance, and I understood Mr. Schwartz in your statement about why you felt this was the optimum spot. You were speaking in a manor that indicated you were thinking the alternative was to attach the garage to the, in a~ll sense you might compass, but to the right-hand of the house as you face it from the road where there's the patio area. Is it possible to place the garage unattached to the house somewhere between the house and the cottage where the driveway runs? MR. SCHWARTZ: MEMBER COLLINS: Yeah, dirt path, right. Let me restate this. There's a considerable amount of space between the house, which .is the principal dwelling and the cottage down by the water and the ground although not totally Page 18 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals flat is not widely, I mean you're going to build and I guess what I was asking was, were you seriously considering putting a free standing garage in that space. Is there some reason why you can't? MR. SCHWARTZ: We probably . We didn't want to attach MEMBER COLLINS: OK, thank you. MR. SCHWARTZ: MEMBER COLLINS: What you're saying I think, is that the two dwellings are on the property and put a garage on the property more or less in between them would upset your concept of the buildings. MR. SCHWARTZ: MEMBER COLLINS: OK. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZlO: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK. We'll see what develops throughout the hearing. Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the applicatiOn? MEMBER COLLINS: Oh, could I ask a question? Who is Marshal Frost? This letter just arrived in my box this evening and I have digested it. MR. SCHWARTZ: MEMBER COLLINS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Hearing no further questions Ill make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER TORTORA: Second. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor? Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 19 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:58 P.M. - MATTITUCK LIBRARY Request regarding property located at 13900 Main Road (S.R. 25), Mattituck, N.Y.; Parcel No. 1000-114-11-2 for the following: ..~ Appl. No. 4725 - Special Exception under Article VII, Section 100-71b (4) to expand library use (addition); Appl. No. 4729- Variance under Article VII, Section 100-72 regarding portion of addition which will be less than 15 feet from the easterly property line. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map and I'll ask this gentleman who he is? MR. TORTORICE: I'm Michael Tortorice and I'm CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We're going to give you the Code Book and let you use it verbatim. Well you're Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, what do you want to tell us about the other MR. TORTORICE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What caused that? The overall condition of the building on the property, the new building? MR. TORTORICE: Yes, we took the building . We dictated where we were going to put, CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio, any questions of this gentleman? MEMBER DINIZIO: Nothing. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: Yes. With respect to the setback, i'm rummaging to find my copy of the plan which I studied very closely and I find that - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Here, take my. Page 20 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER COLLINS: It's alright. I know it by heart. The distance from the bowed, it's a bowed wall. I don't know whether it will be a window or not. But, the distance from that to the property line at its closes point is 8-1/2 feet. If I read the survey correctly, that's sand of woods, brush and shrubs that lies to the west of the library actually goes considerably into the Church property. A lot of that is..~ in the Church's own'land and then the Church's parking lot begins. Do you have a notion how far it is from the property line to the Church itself? I mean ! know what it looks like, but, I'm just asking you if you have a number? MR. TORTORICE: No, we don't. MEMBER COLLINS: Oh, it's'well over 100 feet. MR. TORTORICE: I MEMBER COLLINS: Yeah, OK, I just think it's somewhat relevant to the, I, I think your setback is defensible but, it would just be nice to know how far it is from the nearest building. I have no other question. MEMBER TORTORA: Could you describe MR. TORTORICE: MEMBER TORTORA: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: These are the Special Exceptions areas that we're asking the Board MEMBER TORTORA: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you MEMBER HORNING: MR. TORTORICE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Any further comments or questions from MEMBERS: No. CHAIRMAN GOE'HRINGER: We thank you. We'll see what else develops. Don't leave. Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody tike to speak against the application? Seeing no hands I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. Page 21 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER TORTORA: Second. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor? Motion.-carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 22 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:10 P.M.- Appl. No. 4731 -BOBBLE ZORN This is a request for a Variance under Article VII, Section 100-82, based upon the June 24, 1999 Notice of Disapproval regarding an application for a Building Permit to move and attach the main building to an accessory building (barn); under Article VIII, Section 100-82, new construction will create a single structure with a single-family as a principal use and building, at a setback less than 20 ft. from the southerly property line. Location of Property: 475 Main Road (S.R. 25), Greenport, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel #1000-35-1-22. Zone: Limited Business (LB). CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This concerns the moving of a cottage and adding it to an existing barn 'and we have been over there and have seen it and we have a new counsel. Good evening. MS. MOORE: Good evening. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do? MS. MOORE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Did we meet Mrs. Zorn the last time when she bought the application in ? MS. MOORE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't think you were there. No, I don't think she was. Should we grill them a little? MS. MOORE: There was a, before I begin, I'm sure the hearing period CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have to stop you at this point, it was such a crummy day. I have to apologize for that when I saw you, for not introducing myself. But, you couldn't tell to apologize for that. It was my fault. We always introduce ourselves but, we very simply wanted to get into the rear of the property in this situation. MS. his house far as That's alright. We thank you for In any case, the house from Again, both properties are there. So, there's no impact as Page 23 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can I just stop you. What you're telling me is, that the cottage, we'll refer to it as the cottage, it's still a house, OK. The cottage is preexisting, the barn was not. So, therefore- MS. No, the barn is preexisting. Both are preexisting. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Preexisting of what. What is the barn preexisting? MS. A barn. MEMBER COLLINS: It's preexisting. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: As a barn, not as a dwelling unit? MS. : Not as a dwelling. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK. So the marriage or the merging of these two - MS. Correct. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Now creates one larger structure. MEMBER COLLINS: Principally larger. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Principally. MS. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Now, so the Building Department now will be happy with that? MS. I can't CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: MS. MOORE: As I said, by the applicant, as compared to the alternative, the Planning Board Application and then ultimately we were going to the garage which was also preexisting and a that was The definition of the If you'd like to ask me some questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I just want to ask Bob Brown a question. Mr. Brown we have seen some of your work and more in particular some of the Page 24 - August 18, 1999 Hearings $outhold Town Board of Appeals convers ons of cottage use and in the past. What are these structures going to look like when they're put together? MS. MOORE: We have an elevation. MEMBER COLLINS: We have an elevation. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, I'm not asking an elevation. In your sought of opinion, say professional. MR, BROWN: In my opinion and the new construction the use of the existing CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is the barn is to be a concrete structure or is it a going to be a newstructure MR. BROWN: A reframed structure. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: A reframed structure. MS. MOORE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We thank you. Mr. Dinizio any questions of these nice people? MEMBER.DINIZIO: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. Ms. Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: I just want to make sure our record is clear on exactly what the issue is. By attaching the cottage which is the principal structure to the barn which is the accessory structure, will create a single principal structure it's now subject to the principal structure setback. And, the 12 foot setback was when it was an accessory no longer meets the Code and the property line to which this setback is being measured, is the property line between the lot in question and the other lot on which the Shady Lady itself stands. They're alt, they're common owners. MR. BROWN: MS. MOORE: Yes, that's true because MEMBER COLLINS: OK, I just wanted to make sure we were clear on what the issue is. Just one sought of related questions that the Chairman was asking Page 25 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals what the general appearance of what's going on will be. Did I read somewhere, this would have been in the paper probably, that there are plans for rethinking the external appearance of the Shady Lady itself? Is that in the works? MR. BROWN: MS. MOORE: It's not relevant. MEMBER COLLINS: It's not relevant but, I, it has some ancillary relevance, put it that way. MR. BROWN: MEMBER COLLINS: OK. MS. MOORE: And part of the problem is that MEMBER COLLINS: Yeah, right, that's why you slowed down. Let me say why I asked that. Simply, when you're judging setback issues, the sought of the core of the matter is, who are the neighbors? What do they look like? What does the setback do to the neighborhood? And, that's why I was asking what the plans were Thank you. MS. MOORE: I'd like to point out, the elevation, when you put that in, it's on a two dimensional survey. that way you can 'It will not make MR. BROWN: setback on the front of the barn so changes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: MEMBER TORTORA: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, Mrs. Tortora? Mr. Horning? MEMBER HORNING: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. finished. MS. MOORE: don't have any questions. No, don't leave yet, we're not Page 26 -August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else in the audience would like to speak in favor? Anybody like to speak against? Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later. MEMBER DINIZIO: Second. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor? Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 27 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:27 P.M. - Appl. No. 4699 - LISA JEROME (Hardware Store) Variances are requested under Article X, Section 100-102 to locate a proposed addition with reduced rear and front yard setbacks, and under Article X, Section 100-103-- C for a proposed addition with extended frontage, in this General "B" Business Zone District. This request is based upon an application for a Building Permit and Building Inspector's April 5, 1999, Notice of Disapproval. Location: Hart's Hardware Store, 5000 Main Road and Jockey Creek Drive, Southold; 1000-70-5-6.2. MS. MOORE: One was, well, we took out the center square which We also placed the the existing building. One of the points I made the last time was that you can break the window One or more of Board Members i know said, So we said, well alright you have a plan that shows the distance would be setback That was agreeable with the applicant and we have reservation setback. We traced the front applicant's property of a , so it shows that we got to increase from the side yard We reduced the size of our variance request BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Can I have his name please for the record. MS. MOORE: BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK, thank you. MS. MOORE: That's something that again, we could use as a Board refers CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, for the.record I have absolutely no objection to dropping the building back to reserve the sign and to take away some of the visual, question entrance to the building or length of the building, OK, and I have absolutely no objection to the application as it stands or as it's proposed as it stands right now. i just want to know, there has to be a time when you're going to make an application to the Planning Board, is there not? MS. MOORE: Oh, yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, you've got to do that for super purposes because we are barred from dealing with this aspect until such time the Planning Board starts SEQA process as in the case of all of these applications that concern Business property.. Page 28 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MS. MOORE: So, with all due respect, I think we can deal but it makes some sense because if the Board says, I'm sorry, go away, then, CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'm going to go a little farther with this one, OK. This has never been done before, but, it's going to start now in 1999 before the millennium. Fm going to meet with the Planning Board, OK, meet personally and if anybody else wants to and I'm going to say, this is the application before us and I'm.going to ask you to jointly file with them at this point. I'll also need a short Environmental Assessment Form for this application. So please put that OK, and we will do the best we can. I want them to tell me, that there is something that they feel that is upsetting to them at this point, OK. And, at that particular point we will then at that point, close the hearing and then start commencement of a decision. I will meet with them personally. I will personally call the Chairman and meet with them on this application. There's got to be a situation where we can jointly make these applications. The Planning Board can deal with the SEQA aspect and then we can complete the process. But, if there's going to be major changes based upon their site plan review, there is, it's a moot point for us to make a decision at this point. In my opinion. MS. MOORE: nice if we could get I appreciate your efforts. ~t would be CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So you will submit it? MS. MOORE: Oh, I will submit it. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: When, next week? MEMBER TORTORA: BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yeah, they're asking for an application from Mrs. Moore. I guess $150 filing fees and then they'll give her a recommendation. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It's a concerned. situation is an issue that we're MEMBER COLLINS: That's not a recommendation. MS. MOORE: BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I spoke to the staff today and they said, if you file the application they'll start the Lead Agency process on the SEQRA and Page 29 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals they'll send recommendation on the site plan. And, there's also a letter in the file from two years ago from an applicant on a different map on this project. MS. MOORE: On the original BOAR~ SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yeah, well I guess they'll give a recommendation if yoU file the application. MS. MOORE: I can submit this to them? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I guess, it's a $150 filing fee. MS. MOORE: No, it's not the filing fee. We don't want to delay this any longer. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well I think in a form of my discussing, let them accept the application first and then I'll go and discuss it with them if they will accept and then we'll see where we're going at that particular point and then we'll close the hearing. MS. MOORE: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I understand that, but, the interesting thing about the situation is a, if they want a parking change, or if they want something that could change the overall aspect of this addition OK, then it really doesn't make sense for us to continue with this application in its present state. If there's a minor change would require I'm certainly am not going to make them go closer to the road but, they may make them go closer to the rear property line for some specific reason or ! have no idea at this point. That's where we are. MEMBER TORTORA: CHAIRMAN 'GOEHRINGER: No, I understand that. I know that relatively on that aspect, so they may say that they would rather have the addition in the rear of the building so as not to create the extension of 60 feet. That doesn't concern us on this application. What concerns me is, square footage to square footage. MS. MOORE: I don't have a problem with CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have no intentions of - MS. MOORE: I have a hard time arguing area.variance with the Planning Board because so much concept because there are no area variances when you Page 30 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals go to the Planning Board in the Zoning Board · So, I find a much more educated audience CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, so, just give us a letter when you make the application so that we know and we'll wait about a week or so and then we'll go on with.the hearing. We thank you. Is there anybody else would like to speak in behalf of Harts Hardware at this point, which is Lisa Jerome? OK, we are going to recess this hearing pending a Planning Board session, we could say their work session and an application by the applicant and a receipt of a short Environmental Assessment Form for the applicant by the applicant's attorney. Hearing no further comment I'll make that motion. MEMBER COLLINS: Second. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor? Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 31 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:52 P.M. -Appl. No. 4724 JOEL & MAXlNE HIRSCH (Continuation from July 22, 1999 hearing calendar). This is a request for Variances based on the June 14, 1999, Notice of Disapproval for a proposed single-family dwelling with respect to: (a) insufficient setback from the top of the L.I. Sound bluff at less than 100 feet at its closest point; (b) insufficient side yard at less than 20 feet on one side; (c) insufficient total combined sides at less than 45 feet; (d) building height up to 45 ft. instead of the Code limitation of 35 feet. Location of Property: North Side of Private Right-of-Way (Pvt. Rd. #11) extending off the North side of Sound Avenue, Mattituck, N.Y., Parcel 1000-112- 1-12. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Pat we need three green cards from you. MS. MOORE: BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Not on this one. I'll check, OK, well I'll check it, I'll check it. I can call you tomorrow if you want. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, we're ready Ms. Moore. MS. MOORE: This evening I have a copy of here. I have a architectural work on this project. Bob Schroeder is here process. What I'd like to begin with the '1 have the builder here tonight, Certainly you already have the application for reargument within the standards but I'd like to go over them again the neighbors that this is a beautiful home, that we will certainly To begin with we have to establish a first standard that they'll be undesirable changes in the neighborhood You can see from the survey that this lot is only 100 ft. in width. It was, I went back to the Town Records and the last record prior to zoning Lenz was the original owner I believe the predecessor To being with the clearly on all the variances to the applicant, that was crucial variance each room for flexibility. Other variances we will certainly discuss with the Board, and we have alternatives. However, the side yard variances, but, parts of this property and the fact that it's the Long Island Sound waterfront view, the value to this property is the house not just the lot. And, ultimately the house then I'm sorry I don't have it for you again, but that was my last set. You can see it attached to the Board there. The allegation of the rear of the house designed as of the builders will not you can tell by the present market. Very , very classic architectural and really it's more in keeping with New England style and very classic features. Certainly it's a house anybody would be proud of. 100 feet width of the property, I went Page 32 -August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals back to the. Zoning Board and I noticed that the last time was in 1971. Lot sizes generally could be 12,500 sq. ft. Build lots smaller figure. Dimensional requirements We have zoning lots for 2 acre zoning average lot is probably width wise, the total requirement, minimal lot most likely desirably 200 The older opportunity to build a house that conforms to the area as well as property. So what we have here is a restriction of 45 feet, 20 and 25. That is imposed is only 20 feet of width. When at the time the lot was created, we were allowed 10 feet What I also did. i went back and looked at the adjacent property that was along this road, and compared what their sizes were and tried to But, I noticed that the every single house as I was going through very little new construction has occurred with the side view lot of this size. There's probably the That was a very large lot. That construction It looks like it's newer than that but, the regulations. Certainly the width of the lot is 200. In addition on the inside, wanted to the Board to the aerial and I'm going to submit to the Board the elevations of the front and the back, giving a chance for all of the BOard Members to look at it once, but, I'd like to submit it for the Board. I think that they'll be able to hear me if I speak loudly. When I took the aerial and we have the copies, I have them identified. Cabin is this parcel right here. Rothberg Palmieri is the parcel to the east of the second parcel. I super imposed the use copy to just to my ability on a scale. This is not an exact scale but it's as close as I could do. I accomplish it on is the house and the setback from the bluff. So, you can see that the size of the top of the house is in keeping with some of the other homes in this top in this aerial. Most of the, well, such a huge property. It's a huge house. The proposed house is in comparison to the home. But that one is a very large piece of property. Rothford Palmieri is a I believe a preexisting structure. The only Building Permit that was of record is, ! have to go back to my notes, but I believe it's 80, in the 80s and it was to on an addition, an unheated addition to the existing house. So I, again, it's not a reconstruction. In fact, had an original preexisting house but, tl~ey found was more economical to demolish. They demolition of the existing and the construction for the new residence. So, the property, the values and the lots and certainly the houses that are being proposed to these properties are magnificent. They all get credit, they're beautiful properties, beautiful homes. Dr. Hirsch is trying to add one more beautiful home to the, to the that he's here already. The draft is the parcel to the west. On that too is the preexisting prior to 59 a It actually impacts the property much more so than the Hirsch will impact on them as there is a, ~, I, super imposed the surveyor's shed as well as the garage that help me locate exactly where the overlay should be. You can see that the shed is only about a foot off of the property line and the garage is 13 feet off the property line. The house is very close to the bluff. I say measuring it would be give or take 30 feet. Again, this is all preexisting. They're fine, they're permitted to stay there. But, certainly Page 33 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals the impact on new construction that a of the subject application, there will be little or no impact because the house is so close to the water. Their view is not impacted in any way. Certainly they would have if they were concerned about the activity of the residence, they could put their own screening if they wish to. But, on the west side it is a fully wooded parcel. So, there is a great deal ol~..natural screening that I can't imagine any activity being seen between the two properties. As you go further to the west, that is probably the newest house from all of them and I had a, I pulled from the Building Department a survey. The survey just didn't look right when I comPared the survey to the aerial. What I did, I superimposed just for your own frame of reference, the volume of the house and compared to the most new house in the neighborhood. They're very similar, they're comparable, and size wise they are both substantial homes and in keeping with the character of the area. That particular house on the deed that the setbacks in there are for constructional. This piece is 15 feet on the one side, 15 and 30 as I recall, 30 certainly is a large setback, but the 15 is a lesser setback and I don't recall what the Code said at the time, but it seems [o me that 15 and 10 you could cut 15 on the one side, that was setback. The side where it says that. Then, there is another very huge parcel The subject parcel from the appear to be longer, on the street So, that is something certainly to consider. You got the character established by many trees. Homes that are setback very close to the bluff and the home that is is certainly in keeping and I have for the Board so that you don't have to research on it. I took photocopies and that one is a more modern style but again, I saw you go to the book, I think you may have been and now are and the setbacks areas. I want to point out to you, that some of the When and unfortunately With respect to the height here, most of the 35 feet you know, giving some flexibility So, again the height of The obstacle of the proposed house is 29 feet from the top of the to the first floor. That is 29 feet, the foundation is 10 feet, for design is somewhat and the bluff is so steep but of the water. You go from the grading of the and I believe 104 at the top of that slope. , so that is not, it is However, the problem blocks any view to one hundred One of the discussions present to the Board, are argued alternatives In keeping with the second standard you can by some other method feasible to the applicant I'd like to MR. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We always have questions and I didn't swear you in, but, that's alright. We're seeing 29 feet. The rest of the build up would have been in the foundation? What fill would that have involved? Page 34 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. We have as yet, I don't know exactly CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK. I think I'll go to my colleagues first and then I'll come back. George, do you have any questions of this gentleman? MEMBER HORNING: MR. MEMBER HORNING: I'm looking at the top How did you convey to the Building Department the design of the roof and height of the proposed building? MS. MOORE: Well the Building Department will accept applications for variances. A footprint, that is a working footprint, the architect designed because of the opposition and sometimes we'll go down to the elevation, we did haVe a delay Again, we were taking the footprint in mind with what Dr. Hirsch wanted in the house. Now, we've been in that footprint, now we've designed a house and something that we could inside MEMBER HORNING: Do you have any plans at all? What is the most MS. MOORE: So based on that, we suspected that we might use some but where you have a problem where So those are the three alternatives that we . we applied for height variance because that was something we knew right off the bat because within the We could always alternate but when you're there on site you find out that the Building Department says, oh, no, no, no, the grade is not where your finished grade is, but, the original amount of grade and now we have a principal foundation you don't want to be in a position So the we will come in the original application plus, not to If the variance is not granted, Dr. Hirsch will lose money under the contract he loses $10,000, that's consideration to the applicant However, the ultimate loser will be the seller and that's why the seller's representative is here because if Dr. Hirsch is going to spend all of this money and ask him to leave, he gets denied, so, that's why all the applications side yard setback and height will only be We'd rather get rather than be in a position so that's why you technically come in to the Board. the height of the foundation will be the architectural style, height of It's not a very modern it may be a threat to the before this of 5 feet at most because the We Page 35 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals prefer to have the foundation started at grade and the top but, have to have the foundation poured the Building Department you have four Building Inspectors and their interpretation of ends in the height of the building, sometimes differ. So, to be safe we rather than the 35 Hopefully and really or we might need 2 to 3 feet, but working CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Before Bob stands up, are there any other issues you guys want cleared up before Mr. Schroeder speaks? Mr. Schroeder, how are you? MR. SCHROEDER: Good evening CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Somewhere along the line we're going to have to see a lowest floor elevation on the two front porches. So whatever you people decide to do as applicant, OK, MS. MOORE: side elevation? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We're going to have to see side elevation. MS. MOORE: Well, that's CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, no, no, on the property, on the property. I want stakes. They've already staked but ! want lowest floor elevation, i want elevation, OK. I call lowest floor and so, this is - MS. MOORE: Maybe just a little explanation of MR. SCHROEDER: MS. MOORE: Ithink it's CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yeah, but the problem with that is, the problem itself is not so, that's the reason why I'm saying that the culmination of this hearing, that's what I'm going to ask for at this point. I don't want a lot of work, I just want to be able to see it, OK. MR. SCHROEDER: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: But, the problem that We have here Bob are still before us. There's a request of 45 feet. I mean also it appears to us right now that that is not the case anymore. So, at the end of this hearing tonight, OK, we're going to determine what the height of this house is going to Page 36 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals be and you're going to give me two elevation factors, 'in the front so that we can see where this foundation is going to lie. MR. SCHROEDER: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, just talk amongst yourselves. If we can eliminate a variance here well lets eliminate a variance before we conclude this portion of the hearing tonight so that we know where we're going. What else do you have to do for us? MS. MOORE: MEMBER COLLINS: Mr. Chairman? This is little about height is really terribly important because the height variance is a matter of deep concern to me and I got lost and several people were talking at once and I just want you to say again what you just said, but slowly. Let me just put my question please? I've been to the property in my little four wheel drive. ! got all the way up to where the house is going to go. I know what it looks like. I can read a typographical map and I understand that the property slopes steeply. We have a cross section on this plan. It shows why a very tall house was proposed. Presumably that cross section reflects a foundation that is shown starting at grade and there would be around it. But, I got quite lost as to what is proposed and how you ended up now with 35 or 36 feet. MR. SCHROEDER: MEMBER COLLINS: So that at the lowest point down on the south side, the foundation is 2 feet into the ground and obviously as you go further towards the front of the house, the foundation is more and .more buried, OK, I understand, thank you. CHAIRMAN 'GOEHRINGER: Now, in light of that, would you please go to the Building Department and see if you're still required to have a variance based upon that aspect. MS. MOORE: Oh, I did go to the Building Department this morning that's why we were, I really wanted Mr. Hirsch to be here because Jamie Richter took a look at t the plans and he said, really where we start with the grade and again with the changes and the loCation of the house, he said, it's real close and one foot is real close. He referred to You know on the phone he tried to determine it, but being here with all the pictures in front of us, now I have the final decision, but, Jamie said, no, and I showed him the plan. I showed him the survey and that's why we were able to, In fact, my original thought was that we could withdraw the Page 37 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals variance all together. However, because of one differential, We prefer to keep the one so that during construction we find that grading and so on we don't get stuck coming back to you. We don't want to do that. At that point he's the owner and CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Did you cut the roof? MS. MOORE: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, where are we going from here? MS. MOORE: Well we've now reduced our request for the height. We still require side yard and with construction setback from the bluff. 100 feet is where the house is going to be built. The pool in the back That is something that the owner is so much flexible If the Board wants to keep the we can work with that. That's The second floor will certainly have a view and that's CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, lets reserve that for the next hearing because I'm waiting for Soil and Water Conservation evaluation of the bluff. So lets hold that one in abeyance right now. MS. MOORE: Oh, alright, if it's not a problem. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: abeyance. Well, it's a problem but we're holding it in MS. MOORE: Well, I mean we could come back to some CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That would be wonderful. MS. MOORE: Do you want to wait? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. MS. MOORE: Soil and Conservation is a - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: They evaluate every project that we have on the waterfront and quite honestly it would be to everybody's benefit to have that because then you would know what their overall evaluation is. Suffolk County Agency which gets funded from the Federal Government which - MS. MOORE: You get a Page 38 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN. GOEHRINGER: Yes, Pat, Mrs. Tortora has a question. MEMBER TORTORA: You say the house is and the town is objecting the width of the pool is 20 feet. Does that mean the construction is only 2-1/2 feet on either side? MS. MOORE: A, just that I couldn't follow on that, I'm sorry. I could the surveyor. MEMBER COLLINS: Lydia the 100 feet is to the upstairs deck and - MEMBER TORTORA: 20 feet, you have - MS. MOORE: No, no, no. MEMBER TORTORA: The pool is 27x 40, correct? MS. MOORE: Right. MEMBER TORTORA: OK, that's 20. Now, what is the width of the deck, if you're saying the house is 100 feet? MS. MOORE: No, no, no. We're beyond that 100 feet. No, if you look at your extension we are much further setback. 100 foot MEMBER COLLINS: It's just there for reference. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Where are we going from here? I'm trying to move this along. MS. MOORE: That's fine. One of the complications but, the Building Department So, one of the additional expenses that Dr. Hirsch so again, we're not going to find an able, willing buyer as easily as Dr. Hirsch, that's Dr. Hirsch that has to spend the money and buy variances, surveys and , excavations and then ultimately The ultimate variance is that the existing road is getting out of here. We have fire emergency vehicles. You have trucks that have trouble on the existing road. But, the neighbors would be likely to benefit from Dr. Hirsch's ,. He's going to bare the full cost of to the road So, it will be a benefit to the property owner that Page 39 -August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, let me just ask one quick question before we turn it over to Did you discuss anything with Mr. Tothill concerning this application? This is an unfair question. MS. MOORE: No, no, no, I mean we called each other and I did offer any constructive comments that the neighbors We finallY got together as a group in the hallway CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, no, I'm asking the question because there may be some unanimity that we would during the process. MS. MOORE: We're willing to listen CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We'll wait for it pleasure. Mr. Tohill, it's always a MR. TOHILL: Anthony Tohill, First Street, Riverhead, N.Y. I'm representing Robert Rothberg from the aerial photographs isolated especially in that section representing everybody in the community except for this parcel There were three hearings that I'm prepared to address but, I'm not sure what I'm dealing with I can address it now. I'm fully prepared, that's a single issue. It's The second issue is the height and as that's a specialized issue. and I spent three years of my life dealing with That shouldn't happen here. There were serious problems Now, I don't know what to do. They said come back to us with elevation plans. There are no elevation plans anywhere in this Town Board except They didn't exist unless they see elevation plans and the reason they say, is that the mast the roof of the mast, that has everything to do with the analysis built of height and then the the total slide doors, are two individual and it may or may not be How do you proceed because there's no drawing on the table tonight that the consistent is approximately 2 feet on the ground, 7 feet above the ground, 29 feet , the total 36 feet. What do ! show the planner? He wants to put it on a , he wants to come 'n here of the DeGraff house, which is less than 20 feet high the Rothberg house which is less than 50 feet high and then the I can't proceed CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well that's the reason why I'm confused with the elevation. I mean I understand exactly what Mr. Schroeder is saying, but, I'm confused with those elevations because I can't think of the, of course as you know, I only have small expertise in this area, OK, but, I cannot take those elevations and even if they're super planted on the site, OK, maybe not understandable, OK, so I still need them super planted on the site to understand Page 40 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals this. Maybe if we ask them to stake them, maybe you can utilize that aspect of it. MR. TOHILL: Then there's that 75 feet from 100 feet where there are separate significance on my street. Maybe I'll be here next, isn't that something? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well I'm very simply going to ask them again to place those two stakes so that I can MR. TOHILL: There's nothing that shows the elevation of what 36 feet. The one that we have We should be able to ask house plan. That's not fair, and they should the town is allowing this kind of thing to happen. I'm here, I'm hired, I'm in charge of these people. I could not get a professional , show me what it is you want me to talk about. So somehow or other we ended up here with no purpose to select from. No part of the plan to 'be discussed, and it shouldn't be going forward unless that's on the table so that ! can hire my expert CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What are you going to do Ms. Moore? MS. MOORE: Well, to start with I offered Mr. Tohill, Certainly making the application, we asked for certain things, in light of the opposition, we said, let's try to make I gave I would hope that after what you heard, recognize that one we wait for conservation accessory structure rather than the foundation.Also, if you look at the aerial, every single one of these homes that have been constructed are at the exact same position and some are actually very close to the bluff there. They should spend the money and consider their own impact and CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So, that means no elevation? MS. MOORE: No, no, no, I haven't said that, no. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK. MS. MOORE: I'm just addressing some of the points. That's the addressing that. The second When I got the plans and had an opportunity i wanted to make sure that somebody at the Building Department because again, you don't want to make a request that is not necessary. Based on the plans that you have, they did have an opportunity to review we had several hearings tonight that's not a problem. I would hope that graphics that I'm sure you have seen on zoning of We're talking now Page 41 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals about amending my application to make 36 feet. That's one foot variance and that is necessary only because the foundation, the 100 foundation is grade. We believe that that 1 foot may be necessary based on how much build you want to bring to property and grade. So, our application formerly on the record through here is that we are requesting a height variance 1 fOot. Treat is a very minor application. Certainly I appreciate the concern of the , the surveyor. I'm sorry if it's very alarming to them, but that's what we had at the time we The draft is a preexisting house that in all honesty, we can sell for a great deal of money probably have options of tearing it down. the other homes that were built It's a lovely house, but, if you have somebody that can buy the properties in that area, they probably would build into the scale. Rothberg is a very small cottage that you so that you can't compare what he proposed here. When you talk about the place of the footprints, I would ask permission for someone from our side to go and measure what is the height of the I don't have the elevations. When you look at the photographs they are very high foundation: In addition, .all of the homes that were discussed, they have an unobtrusive view of the water because they don't have the bluff that goes up so high. They can have grandchildren water to view. We unfortunately we don't have that and that's why this parcel has been the last to be developed, and property values go up, parcels of property will take the longest to sell now start coming for the The Board has numerous applications that are unique as this one is and to compare this application to DeGraff, Rothberg aerial example is apples and oranges when you compare. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So we take that as a no? MS. MOORE: No, it is not a no. What I will do, I will ask, well we, can I say informally for the record, you want me to do it by way of a written to the formal, you refused our height requirement - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We are aware of that. MS. MOORE: I can ask the surveyor to take that parcel and. give you the height of 36 feet which will get the elevations the surveyor and the builder and the excavation. I think you can all work together relatively afterwards the picture of where it would the first floor, the second floor I think that would certainly give the Board a detailed CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It would certainly help me that's for sure. I don't know if it will help counsel. MS. MOORE: We have no objection. Page 42 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora, do you have a question? MEMBER TORTORA: What's an elevation plan? elevation plan? MS. MOORE: It comes up anyway. You will provide us with an MEMBER TORTORA: You don't revise the elevation plan? It MS. MOORE: MEMBER TORTORA: MS. MOORE: You want those? MEMBER TORTORA: MS: MOORE: OK, i just want to make sure I CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, well we're going to ask Mr. Tohill what he was looking for. I'm going to suggest two things, OK, that maybe you two should talk about this point, the aspect of it, OK. You know, seriously, ~ mean, you know. MR. TOHILL: MS. MOORE: MR. TOHILL: MS. MOORE: I would ask that the Planning Board, you would, if you the courtesy of it would be helpful if MR. TOHILL: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, Mr. Tohill, Doc, Doc, yes, i'd like to speak to Dr. Hirsch for one second. Dr. it's a pleasure to meet you. We sometimes go through these, we'll refer to them as minor travesties. DR. HIRSCH: community and friend Fork and my wife First off i want to say that, as Mr. Tohill said, this is a one of the things that inspired me is my South Fork and myself i have property on the South wanted something a little quieter and yes we looked for Page 43 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals a while and.many years ago this piece of property and we liked it very much but, I might say the longest contract of record. The contract was acquired a year ago and we have this situation that the contract a variance because itself. Where it is a unique piece of property, it is established The fact of the matter is, that when you walk on this property there are problems. I spoke with Mr. Schroeder many months ago and the attorney made several recommendations, ? Steinberg. At any rate, but we prior to this and we find out , the first thing they learned is that the last man coming in would have to do improvements. Now, certainly, one of the neighbors think, is that people talk. I was quite surprised that the neighbors had hired an attorney by the way. The neighbors discussed this and find out what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. One of the reasons we presented all three different aspects is that the house there's flexibility I don't want to go It's not my style. I would like to have a house that we get the benefit of a piece of property on the sound. Certainly there are others that have been grandfathers Also, the area demands that as an agricultural group This is a very special piece of property and I'm not here to prevent the people around me so that I can build a house at a smaller scale perhaps so that we can find the proper house to put on this property. One of tl~e other thing again, is not a preexisting structure The end structure that's adjacent to family house coming up the other road. I had a chance, I never saw the house, but I knew that and I was quite surprise at the size of the house, . The other thing was that the corporation that the people that are buying the property from, one of the reason it's such a beautiful sale, is (a) I have , and since the cost of defending an action is and one they're two lawyers and there are five to ten people and So, I'm a little The thing is, that you can do something that's not abusive. I think that the road has to be clean, that's one tt3ing, the size of the house, that's another issue, but, it concerns about and all that. Surely, these things can be worked out and I'm willing to do that and I'd like to try and get that done. The biggest issues I , this erosion and the way the property slopes down and the wooded parcel and that's probably one of the reasons it hasn't been sold. So, I'm willing to put the effort in, the time in I think in the end, the community will be better for it. I think that if the neighbors that are concerned if they address it directly to me, the attorneys will discuss it, that's how I feel. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, thank you. Mr. Tohill, anything in rebuttal at this point or anything you want to discuss? MR. TOHILL: I don't want to get into the Page 44 - August 18, t999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN. GOEHRINGER: 20 years of history. MR. TOHILL: Right, he doesn't know that simply CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, right, it doesn't have anything to do with the actual construction. So, what we're going to do here, is we're going to Member Collins who always mentions to me, that she likes to wrap things up in a tight little package, she says just tell me where we're going, OK. We're going here is this. We're going to get the proper maps, we're going to submit the proper maps to you. You're going to submit the proper information or documentation to applicant's counsel prior to the next hearing. The question is, when are we going to get the maps? When is the hearing going to commence, so on and so forth? The'point is, that since we are at the 18th and since the next hearing is at the 16th, we assume that we can get the maps in an appropriate fashion. That would be approximately two weeks before the hearing or sometime thereabouts the week of Labor Day. If we don't get them, we're very simply going to hold it over to October. However, we are going to get the evaluation to Soil and Water Conservation which we will submit to counsel and we submit to you and as you know, they tend to be very helpful in these areas. It's somewhat invaluable actually and so you'll find that Doctor to be a very good tool in reference to whatever neutering of the bluff you may have to do and they are a very, very, very adequate outfit in this whole scheme of things. Once we commence the hearing then we will be able to, I will go back to the site. I've been there three times already. I am very familiar with the road. This Board has heard this a hundred times but I've been a fireman in the Town of Mattituck for almost 32 years and I have gone up and down this road at least twice a year with fire equipment to make sure fire equipment can pass through there and primarily ambulance. MS. MOORE: If you could be so kind. The main issue for the applicant are the side yards. I think in all fairness Mr.'Tohill plead his argument is that the side yard because what exactly is the problem with the side yard line to be proposed? or what in their mind could be Certainly 45, 40 feet which is what the Code requires is unacceptable to the applicant and we could end it all here because the is not as a practical area variance we could certainly and Tohill knows that we could end that argument We are willing to listen, first place repeatedly offered to listen to their concerns, we tried to accommodate their concerns, - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't think, I'm not speaking for them, but, I'm not sure that I understand the impact of the house and I'm not sure that they understand and I'm not speaking for them, I think elevation factors will help me understand though. As you know this Board regardless of what they say, has Page 45 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals the right to. anything, OK, so we will do so, collectively in a normal fashion the way we do in every application that is before us. I have to go back and understand this situation, OK. MS. MOORE: Well maybe we can hope that at the next hearing they can be more specific on the grounds of the hearing, of what exactly are their concerns. You know, to put up a 45 foot house, they know it's unreasonable, Tohill knows it's unreasonable and taking that position, I hope he takes that position because that is a very unreasonable position - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I understand. I don't think we've gotten to that point yet to be honest With you. I don't think we've gotten to that point. So we thank everybody - MEMBER COLLINS: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN'GOEHRINGER: Yes. MEMBER COLLINS: You know in the interest declared, the , when you were agreeing with counsel what we're going to do before the next meeting, you were usually the term maps, and I think that the things that we have asked for are a revision of the cross sectional drawings showing how the house fits into the land and do I also understand that we were asking for elevations of the building from the other two sides? We have the front, a west and the east now. I'm not sure that was being asked for and I want to know what we asked for. MR. TOHILL: North and the south, there was discussion with the Board about east and west but I'm against the elevation wall gives the surveyor a second wall and I cannot MEMBER COLLINS: An elevation drawing. I'm sorry, I'm confuSed. MR. TOHILL: That's OK, but they're here. MEMBER TOHILL: Here? MR. TOHILL: That's them, those are elevation . MEMBER COLLINS: What we have, OK, I want to make sure. I understand this is a - MR. TOHILL: Yes, you're calling them cross sections and I'm calling them MEMBER COLLINS: No, no, no, Sir, I was calling this thing cross section. Page 46 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. TOHIII: OK, that's something ~ may not have. MS. MOORE: That's the cross section I understand what you're saying. MEMBER COLLINS: Right and we have here only acquired today, elevations of the front and the back of the house. Was anyone else looking for any other elevations? You just want to get your hands on these elevations? MR. TOHILL: Those primarily. ~ would love to have the rest MEMBER COLLINS: Is to get hold, fine, now one other thing Mr. Chairman, are we going to ask the applicant to sort out with the Building Department whether or not they're seeking that height variance? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, I would hope that these maps would be documentation if they with Mr. Richter who is an engineer, they'll be able to tell him that. ! don't mean to sound sarcastic - MEMBER COLLINS: Well I'd like us to know because I want to know if we're hearing a height variance argument or not. If we are, I'd like to have it defined. MS. MOORE: The only BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Are we asking for the east, west elevation? MEMBER COLLINS: No. MS. MOORE: Well I'm going to give you all CHAIRMAN .GOEHRINGER: I will recess this to the next regularly scheduled meeting, OK? However, if we don't receive it in a timely fashion, we are very simply going to skip over that meeting, and at that meeting we're going to say, exactly what I've just said. We have not received the documentation. This is no hazard to anybody, we have not received it timely, but, we're going to jump over that meeting and we'll zip right into the October. How does that sound? MR. TOHILL: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well that's what I just said. It has to be somewhere in that week so that we can have it a week, a week and a half before. I said two weeks, but I'm just saying. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It could be the day after Labor Day. Page 47 - August 18, 1999 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Which is what, the 7th? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: The Tuesday after Labor Day. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Tuesday, after Labor Day, alright? MEMBER DINIZlO: Well I'm concerned that if we come back and we're ready to go CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, I think we all want to conclude this hearing well before that. OK, so that's where we are here, is that correct? Are we going for ~ BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Pat you can send the plan directly to Mr. Tohill, just timely. MS. MOORE: I think I probably will. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK, thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So I offer a Resolution ladies and gentlemen to recess to the next regularly scheduled meeting. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: September 16th then. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor? Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. End of Hearing. Prepared by Lucia Farrell. RECEIVED ~ND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK