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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-12/10/1998 HEARING1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD BOARD OF ZONING AND APPEALS In the Matter ef the Public Hearing to Consider: Appeal Nos. 3426, 4604, 4640, 4639,4631, 4638, 4581, 4633,4642, and 4524SE/4625. pP. oWT~ZPn AND FILED BY T~ SOUTHOLD TOWN To~m C!e~, Tow~ o~ Gerard P. Geehringer James Dinizio, Jr. Lydia A. Tertera Lera S. Collins George Homing 6:30 P.M. December 10, 1998 Seutheld Town Hall 53095 Main Read Southeld, N.Y. 11971 Chairman Board Member Board Member Board Member Board Member FREELANCE L.I., INC. - Court Reporters 259 Seuthfield Road Baiting Hollow, N.Y. 11933 Voice 516.369.2912 Fax E-Hail - flli@aol.cem i TOWN OF SOUTHOLD BOARD OF ZONING AND APPEALS 2 3 In the Matter of the Public 4 Appeal Nos. 3426, 4604, 54640, 4639,4631, 4638, 4581, 4633,4642, and 6 4524SE/4625. 7 6:30 P.M. ~ Decen~ber 10, 1998 9 Southold Town Hall 5~09~ Mai~ Road 10 ~o~rhold, N.Y. 11971 '(~erarcl P. Ooehringer Chairtr~an Jaa'.es Dinizio, Jr. Board Me~uber 18:37:40 18:37:~4 !8:37:49 18:37:52 18:37:53 1~:37:55 7 18:37:58 i~:35:00 9 ls:3~:00 10 13:38:08 !4 have been asked to appear by Lola Gould, whose attorney has prepared a letter he would like me to deliver to you, with regard to this matter. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you. MR. WIGGINS: It also asks for a postponement. THE CHAIRMAN: Great. Thank you. MR. WIGGINS: Thanks. THE CHAIRMAN: Your name is, sir? Alex Villani. THE CHAIRMAN: How are you. MR. VILLANI: Good evening, is it a 30-day postponement. THE CHAIRMAN: We'll postpone it to 15 16 17 18 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lydia A. Tortora Board M erc~ber Board Me~nbcr Board Me~nber I:?,.EELANCE L.I., INC. - Court Reporters 259 $outhfield Road Baltir~g Hollow, N.Y. 11933 Voice 516.369.2912 E-Mail - fUi@aol.cotn 15 whatever the January date is. We haven't arrived at ~6 one at this point yet. 17 MR.VILLANI: We are under time limits on 1~ this closing for this land. I think it is January 19 17. So if you could get this resolved by the next 20 meeting, it would be ideal. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: I want to point out to 22 you, that I'm ready for the decision. I wrote the 23 improvements. I studied the land and this was a 24 request by someone else. It wasn't a request by me. 25 And it is a difficult decision because of the nature FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS :s:~:~s 1 THE CHAIRMAN: We'd like to welcome ~s:~:4v 2 everybody here this evening. This is the regularly zs=~:~ ~ scheduled meeting of the Southold Town Zoning Board l~:~:s2 4 of Appeals. We're going to do some agenda items out ~:~:ss 5 of order tonight. But we will start with the first :~::~:s~ 6 hearing. 3~:~:~ ~ i I'm going to ask the board tonight, ~s:av:0~ $ becaus~ of my present health situation, that we ~:av:0:9 dispense with the reading of the legal notices on ~:~:~ 10 all of the hearings tonight. I offer that as a :~:av::,: 11 resolution. ~:~,:~ 12 MS. COLLINS: Second. ~:~:~ ~:~:~': t~ THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor. ~*:av:~s 14 (All ayes) ~:.~v:~ 15 THE CHAIRMAN: The first hearing is on ~8:~:~_~ ~:::~,~ ,~ 1~ behalf of Stephanie Villani, Alex and Stephanie ~:~:~ ~s:a~:~ 17 Villan[ The owner is Gerald Doroski, and it is 'J137:2~ 18 Appeal No. 3426. We have been asked for :~:3s:-,.4 1 of what occurred in that particular area where the ~s:~s:4~ 2 greenhouses are, in the open area. But I took that ~:28:s: 3 into consideration, and I consulted not only the :s:3~:s3 4 town engineer but a private contractor who I have :s:~8:s7 5 great reliance onin writing the application is:3~:01 6 specifications for the private right of way. So we :~:~.~:0~ 7 are ready to proceed. ~:2~:~ 8 MR. VILLANI: All right. :~,~.~:~ 9 THE CHAIRMAN: That is where the :~:~:~2 l0 situation is, okay. 12 13 you. 1~ Is there anybody else who would like to 15 speak? !~ Hearing no further comment, I'll make a ~? motion recessing the hearing to the January meeting. ~8 We have not arrived at a specific date for that yet, MR. VILLANI: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: It is a pleasure to meet 19 postponement on this particular hearing for the 20 evening. Is there anybody here that would like to 21 speak?: 22 MR. WIGGINS: My name is JonaSh~ 23 Wiggins. ~ ~ 24 THE CHAIRMAN: How are you, Jon. 25 MR. WIGGINS: Very good, th~ you. FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS ~a:as:~a 19 but I think it is going to be on or about the 21st. :s:as:~2 20 I know that is going to put you over, but hopefully '_o..as:a; 21 we'll be able to make a decision for you that xe:~a:a~ 22 evening, sir. ~e:z~:4~ 23 MR. VILLANI: We'll live with it. :~:8.~:~2 2~ THE CHAIRMAN: Have a happy holiday ',_~_:~:~4 25 season. Second? FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 18,39:48 !8139156 181401!9 1814812i !8148125 18148134 48:4c:36 11 4~:~o:~ 16 4814o133 18 :aa:8o 20 ~14~:o~ 22 18141113 24 MR. HORNING: Second. THE CHAIRMAN: Ail in favor? (All ayes) THE CHAIRMAN: The next appeal is on behalf of Arthur Torell, Appeal No. 4604. I have a copy of a survey indicating the parcels in question. That were involved in the prior application. We'll ask him if he would like to approach the board? State your name for the record, please. MR. TORELL: Arthur Torell. THE CHAIRMAN: What would you like to tell us, sir? MR. TORELL: I complied with the issues of the board. I would wish that the two parcels would be -- they have been separated now, but I want to maintain two building lots, whether it is a five foot variance one way or the other, is not up to me to decide. THE CHAIRMAN: You're referring to the proper positioning of the house as you have built it in the area so as to preclude any encroachment to the wetlands. MR. TORELL: That is correct. That 18142127 18142129 i8142132 i81~2139 18142140 18142142 18142145 18142147 18142149 18142132 !0 18142155 12 io:~:oz 17 48:48:~v 19 ~8:4~:44 22 have no problems with the project. I would say, Mr. Chairman, that I am much more in favor of a variance in lieu of drawing a lot line. THE CHAIRMAN: As I said, the overall footprint of the house as I just stated is. MS. COLLINS: Is perfectly reasonable. MS. KOWALSKh I remembered that we had asked for a map showing the wetlands. MS. COLLINS: It is sketched here. THE CHAIRMAN: Did you go back to the trustees. MS. COLLINS: Well, then I haven't missed anything. MS. KOWALSKh The board had asked for a map showing all the wetlands, but I don't recall that they asked for approval, from the trustees. They just asked you to go back and apply with the trustees. MR. TORELL: Right, and figure out what percentage of the lot was -- the house and what percentage was the wetland. MS. COLLINS: Okay, in that case, since I may have muddied the record, I want to clarify it. 48:44:45 25 footprint caru}ot move. FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 25 In that case, given Mr. Torell's understanding, the FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS document that we received, it is not stamped, but it showed up in my office mail about two weeks ago, perhaps, which is a survey of the property with the wetlands drawn in and a calculation of the area of the wetlands, that is the document that you did provide. MR. TORELL: Yes. MS. COLLINS: That enlightens us. My understanding, obviously wrong, at the September hearing, was that we were adjourning without a date because your trustee authorization had run out. And we were expecting you to go back to the trustees and get a new authorization. That is not an ax I'm grinding, that is ~vhy I'm saying, I asked the question I asked. THE CHAIRMAN: To follow-up on that, Ms. Collins, all we will do then, ff the board is so inclined, was make it subject to that. !9 Mr. Horning? Mrs. Tortora? 20 No questions. We'll see how the hearing 21 goes. In any case, you will have to go back to the 22 trustees. 23 MR. TORELL: Absolutely. 24 THE CHAIRMAN: I know that you didn't 25 assume that, you knew that. I'm not putting words FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT KEPORTERS 1 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. 2 MR. TORELL: Regarding the DEC 3 recommendation and the trustee's -- the Town of 4 Southold recommendation, wetland requirements. 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I have to tell you 6 that it is not an unreasonable width that you're ? considering in reference to the house. We'll start 8 with Mr. Dinizio at the end. 9 Mr. Dinizio, any questions of Mr. 10 Torell? 11 MR. DINIZIO: No questions at all. 181~3117 11 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Collins. 881,~:~o 12 13 MS. COLLINS: I think it is a question :a.~4,0~ 13 14 to you, Mr. Chairman. We recessed this hearing :81.4410~ 14 15 without a date in September. It was partly, and I i81.4e88 15 16 think perhaps principally, to let Mr. Torell get up 18144111 16 17 to date with the town trustees. I may have missed 18144::_2 17 18 something in my mail here in the office, but does 19 your file have -- did we get anything from the 20 trustees. Because I haven't seen it. 21 MS. KOWALSKh I can get it. 22 MS. COLLINS: That is not anyone's fault 23 but mine. 18144131 24 As long as we are satisfied that the 18144132 25 trustees have signed off on the project as it is, I FREELANCE L.L, INC. COURT REPORTERS I8:44:48 9 in your mouth. MR. TORELL: Yes. But I didn't know what the outcome would be so I had no basis to talk to them. THE CHAIRMAN: Right. Okay. Thank you, sir. MR. TORELL: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody else like to 9 10 11 i2 14 !8840804 6 i8:48:!4 8 Southampton, for the applicant, Klm Campbell. My argument tonight is not going to be for a variance, but to persuade you that the applicant is entitled as of right, to construct this addition for the reason that it does not-- or the road or the street to which the building inspector referred, is East End Road and not the private right of way that is shown on the survey, or the road 16 18,48808 21 28:46:2! 24 speak in favor of this application, anybody like to speak against the application? Seeing no hands, I will make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. MS. COLLINS: Second. THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor? (All ayes) THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. The next appeal is in behalf of Klm Campbell, it is Appeal No. 4640. A copy of-- it's referred to as a survey but it is really a site plan, indicating the applicant's desire to construct an addition, which is on the west side of his property. And the site plan is from Chandler Palmer and King, the most ~8:48:~ 10 18648648 1~ which is shown on the tax map. And I have for your review, a letter from Fishers Island Development Corporation, from Thomas Dougherty, who is the manager of FIDCO, stating that this is not a FIDCO road over ~vhich the the members -- the owners of the east end of Fishers Island have any rights to use. That is the road on the tax map that he's referring too If you look at the -- and in addition to that, there is an affidavit from Richard Strausse, who is the surveyor for Chandler Palmer and King who, as you know, does all the surveying work on Fishers Island, and an unsigned affidavit from Dennis Gates, who is a long time map drafter of the-- at the Real Property Tax Service Agency, who is responsible for the tax maps. He, by county policy, he could not sign tl~at affidavit. However, 11 I8148148 I8848854 18:0:01 10:47:08 1998. And I have a copy of the Suffolk County tax map indicating this and the surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Ham, how are you tonight? MR. HAM: Fine, thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Happy holidays to you. MR. HAM: You too. I have an assortment of documents, here. Affidavit of mailing, my office could 10 not found the survey slips, however, I have one 11 return receipt. And in the document I'm going to 12 give you from FIDCO, they have waived notice. I 13 think you'll see from my argument tonight, it is not 14 necessary. :0:4;::2 15 But the affidavit marling with the ~:4~:~8 16 surrounding is in good form. i884;:iv 17 I'd like to give each member-- this is a 8884~::: lg letter, two affidavits, one is unsigned for the '_s,aa 19 reasons stated, and three sketches. And the la-,.v=~ 20 posting, also. :sm:~,s 21 MS. KOWALSKh Thank you. :0:4788 22 My argument tonight -- 23 THE CHAIRMAN: Please state your name 24 for the record. ~a4~144 2'5 MR. HAM: Steven Ham, 45 Hampton road, 10 me that it accurately set forth our conversations, his review and so forth. In addition, you have some sketches, ~vhich are based on sketches given to me by Mr. Strausse. I have the originals and I highlighted what he had highlighted on the survey, and so forth. If you look, I think the confusion concerning this road, arose in part because of the tax map. But if you look at the large, the largest paper which is at the back, it shows that there is a driveway coming off of East End Road which is a FIDCO road, it goes up the Campbell property for a ways, branches off into the Campbell driveway, there is a middle part of it, which goes to the Balcolm property north of the Campbell property. It is that right of way that you see on his survey. There is a 8t:~0838 22 third branch that goes out to the Fishers Island Club dock, which I'm informed is used by the golf club, for golf equipment as they maintain the course, and also when people take boats in to play golf there, they pick them up using that. It is that road which is mistakenly, and I have very good proof that it is a mistake, mistakenly been identified on the tax map as a road. As Mr. Strausse shows on the-- on his FREELANCE L.I., INC. 12 COURT REPORTERS FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 25 recent date it was revised, was on November 3rd, 1~148114 25 as I have stated, at the top of it, he confirmed to FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 18:50:51 !8:50:54 2 18:51:00 3 18:5i:8] i8:5i:i8 6 18:5I:13 7 18:51:}4 13 26:52:82 17 28:52:87 19 26552514 23 sun~ey, ~vhich you have, and on a sketch, which is the second to last page that I've given you, the Campbell property abuts land of Fishers Island Development Corporation, which is at the 17th hole at the golf club. It does not abut a road. That is the opinion that Mr. Strausse gives in his affidavit, which I presented, based on his review of his records, deeds, and so forth. It is the opinion of Dennis Gates of the Real Property Tax Service Agency, who I met with yesterday, he showed me some aerial photographs that were taken at the time tax maps came in, about 19 -- in the early 1970%. It does appear, just as this last sketch appears, that there is a road that goes all the way back there, and they put it on the original tax map and it was never, never correcte& As Mr. Dougherty states, it is not a road that FIDCO is required to maintain. And indeed, as both Mr. Gates and Mr. Dougherty state and as you can even see from the inset, the key map, which is on the survey submitted, that is an excerpt from the map of Fishers Island Development Corporation, which is an official map filed with the county now. There is no road where you can see the 13 18553549 2 185845~4 6 28:54:08 mx:~? !1 m8838 16 15 that he had enough evidence to change ir, and at 5:00 this afternoon, he brought me the new tax map. I have only one copy. THE CHAIRMAN: He just happens to go by your office. MR. HAM: He lives in Montauk. THE CHAIRMAN: I know that. I know him quite well. MR. HAM: As you can see, he has a lot of power with the eraser to revise the property. My point is, of the four definitions of street from which a front yard would be determined, of the four definitions in the zoning code, the only plausible one that would apply in this instance is a street on an official map of the town, which of course is the zoning map. This road, at least it does appear on the zoning map, but it is my belief that the zoning map was based on the tax map. If the tax map has now been corrected, then the zoning map should be corrected. And whatever, we are not-- I have yet another point. It is not a street. Even if that tax map road were a street, as you can see from the, I think it is the second to 25 property of Campbell and the tee of the 17th hole. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS lg55252~ 16552527 2 26:52:52 4 18132135 5 !8552535 18552538 7 !8:52542 8 18552544 9 18,52,48 !1 18:5~:5~ 13 is:~x:n 17 1~55m~ 18 1~15318~ 24 14 THE CHAIRMAN: When did Mr. Gates tell you? I work with him personally and he's an extremely knowledgeable individual MR. HAM: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Did he tell you that he would take it off the future maps. MR. HAM: Well, that is my piece de resistance. That is Perry Mason. I'm saving that for the last. I did want to show, you don't really need this, because you have the excerpt from it, but this is the map of Fishers Island Development Corporation, or one part of it. Again-- you can see, no road. But you have a better copy of it, actually in the circle, here. In any event, it is Mr. Gates' opinion that the original draftsman of the tax map saw the road, sketched it on and it has just evolved ever since as part of that section, Section 4. We shared information, he checked his files, deeds, and so forth yesterday. I asked him to sign the affidavit. He checked with the county, and they could not do that -- he could not do that. However, he did state that if I sent a letter, and requested that the-- or 25 requested in effect that the tax map be changed, FREELANCE L.L, INC. COURT REPORTERS 25 last page on the stapled material I gave you, it FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 18:55:12 2 1855551~ 4 !8555522 5 18555528 6 18:55:34 8 H55~587 9 19 25 side yards. FREELANCE Li., INC. t6 would be 75 feet from that street, it is that middle driveway is what is very close to this proposed addition. Clearly Mrs. Campbell owns that driveway. She is the fee owner of the driveway. Subject to that easement or Balcolm. She also owns on the other side of that driveway. But my request is that you direct the building department to issue a building permit based on this information. I don't think there is any need for a variance. THE CHAIRMAN: I don't mean to be -- we never direct the building department to do anything. Quite honestly -- MR. HAM: You are the arbiter of the interpretation of the zoning code. However procedurally that would produce that result, I would request that you do that. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Mr. Homing, anything else you would like to shed on this. MR. HORNING: Well, the applicant's contractor provided some on-site photos. And I myself took some with a Polaroid. They predominantly show the right of way. Balcolm's house is this way. They show premises front and COURT REPORTERS 18:55:39 18159140 4 1815014] 5 18156152 7 19156159 9 1015~181 10 18:57:19 1~ Can I ask a question? THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. MR. HORNING: I think the board would like to know what the legal status of this right of way that you're suggesting, in fact, is going to be erased from the tax maps. MR. HAM: There -- if you look at the large page, on the back, there exists a 20 foot wide right of way. However, it is not a road for tax map purposes. It is an easement for the golf club and Balcolm. If you can see it, it is on the Campbell property, initially. At one juncture it branches off. The easement is through the Campbell, through Balcolm. FIDCO needs that road to get up to a certain point, and then the rest of it is on its land. MR. HORNING: Right. As a matter of fact, physically, there is a loop going to Balcolm's property. On the property line and then looping around, to the front of Balcolm's house and then back out on the questioned right of way that is adjacent to the project site, because Mr. Campbell, in a phone conversation, suggested to me that in fact he would eliminate that right of way completely 17 !8:59:26 1 i8:39:30 2 i8159140 18:~9:53 16:59:55 9 mm5? 10 t~:0~:2~ 20 the consent of Balcolm, although I doubt it, to relocate it. But Balcolm, as far as I know, has no complaint about this. If anything it would be Campbell who would want that driveway moved to the border, not to give him 75 feet, but to keep it -- from the addition. Balcolm drives up and passes it. it has no bearing on their property. The key point here is that you're not required to setback from a private right of way, which is not a street under the zoning code. MR. HORNING: That is correct, Mr. Chairman? THE CHAIRMAN: Well... MR. HAM: If you define what a setback is. do this: allow you to go back to the building department. If they want to speak to me, I have no problems discussing with them so that they either give you a modified notice of disapproval or they say, listen, we agree with you, we concur a 100 percent, therefore you send us a letter then, and we can 19 THE CHAIRMAN: My suggestion is that we We recess the hearing without a date. We 25 and move it to the proper place, being the boundary FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 18:58:07 18:98:!~ 2 19:50:1~ 3 !8:58:22 5 18:96:87 7 !8:58:37 N188:44 11 !8:~9:~2 17 ~815~:~s 22 line between FIDCO and his property. MR. HAM: To keep it along his property. 25 dispense with the hearing at that point. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 18 MR. HORNING: Yes, if in fact he did that, he would certainly have the space that is required. As you say, it would be then 75 feet. MR. HAM: Well, right. But my point is that even -- it is a privately -- it is not a road or a street for zoning purposes. He has no obligation in my view to do that. MR. HORNING: That is why I think we would like to see some paper that describes what this right of way actually is. MR. HAM: That is what I've given you, Mr. Strausse's sketch. It is shown on this old survey where it is, that you were given, that is very close to this addition. The driveway to BalcoM. MR. HORNING: Yes. point. For us to close the hearing at this 20 MR. HAM: The deed into Ken Cmnpbell suggests the 20 foot road, calls it, although that is not definkive -- k's a right of way, in favor of others. I don't know, we'd have to do a whole title search to see if anybody else has a benefit of !81001~0 4 1~:00151 5 I9:68:95 6 19:01:0£ 8 MR. HAM: I ~vouldn't want you to. THE CHAIRMAN: And then have something else. Because uniquely what you're saying has merit. However, if there is any inkling, and this is only for the past 18 years and eleven months that I have been on this board, that there is any kind of right of way, regardless of if it is on a zoning map or if it is on a map itself. In no way that I'm -- am I hedging here, I'm just trying to sa-}, that toxvns are a little bit different sometimes, okay, they will then determine that to be a street ts:0t:2~ !4 regardless of who has access over it, ff it is on a ~910~:~ 1S map. They -- they, I'm not speaking for the :s:011~,2 16 building department, but I'm saying in the past that 1~101118 N is what the building department has done. 18:0~:~ 18 MR. HAM: You're here to correct the 25 that other than Balcolm. It might take more than FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS xs:~x:a819 building department, as well. 1~:01:~2 20 THE CHAIRMAN: We try. ~9:02:48 21 MR. HAM: This is one that I feel could 8810a149 22 be reversed on the basis of what I've presented but m~119! 23 1 will keep the hearing open, then, until... m0x:ss 24 THE CHAIRMAN: Do that and based upon 1~18~188 25 what we have here. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 13101158 19101159 2 19102103 3 lhG21!3 6 !91021!7 19102120 8 19:02123 9 19:02:28 10 19:02131 11 l~:Om? 17 191~215~ 20 !~:o]:o~ 22 1~:o31o~ 2~ MR. HAM: I'd like you to give me the next available date, can you do that now? THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. Definitely. MR. HAM: I think that they saw the right of way that is shown as being only eight feet from this addition, looked at the tax map, and thought it was one and the same. Ym hopeful, based on that, they will now reverse. But if they are saying you have to setback from an easement from a 21 23 Road, to the nearest real private road that eventually gives access to the public highway. MRS. TORTORA: Do you know whether it was granted 280-A? Do you have any idea? MR. HAM: These predate any of that. THE CHAIRMAN: This was 1966 open development. MR. HAM: This is before -- I know the Campbell house itself is an old coast guard station. private right of way, which my client owns and owns the other side of, then that is fiat out wrong, it is contrary to the code. THE CHAIRMAN: Depends on who has the right of way. MR. HAM: If it is a street, yes. U~ffortunately, it does fit into the definition here, because it does show on the zoning map of the town. But even so, we are 75 feet from that street. This particular branch of it is not on -- THE CHAIRMAN: I remember that is what you clearly have to state to them so that they understand that aspect of it. What is unique about this is that there are other persons that have the 24 right of way over this driveway, so to speak. 25 MR. HAM: Which is not terribly unusual FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 10 MR. HORNING: The boat house was also a 11 boat hospital for the coast guard, I believe, the 12 room is there. The government wanted easy access in 13 and out. Instead of a turnaround at the boat house, lti they created a loop that they could drive in one way 15 and out the other. 16 MR. HAM: The driveway itself may vary 17 from the actual deeded right of way. 18 MRS. TORTORA: I tend to agree with the 19 chairman's statement that we have traditionally 20 handled right of way in the way we have handled 21 streets, and the building department has, as well. 22 One of the reasons I think, is probably because of 23 the definition of a right of way in the code that 24 says the boundary lines of lands used or intended 25 for use as streets and shown on deed plats and the FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 1 either. 2 THE CHAIRMAN: I agree with you. If it ~ was just Mr. And Mrs. Campbell's driveway, you know 4 what I'm saying, where they had a dead end and that 5 was their boat house at the end of it. That would 6 be a different situation. 7 MR. HAM: Let me state for public policy 8 reasons, the person affected is not by this road, is 9 not the public really, it is that private person ~0 -- who's passing back and forth, who if anything 11 would not want to build up close to that right of ~2 way because cars would be passing, how ever 13 infrequently, past it. So we are not prejudicing, ~4 in other words, a neighbor by doing this. 15 THE CHAIRMAN: No. 16 Mrs. Tortora, do you have any questions. 17 MRS. TORTORA: 1 was trying to find out 18 how was the right of way established, do you know. 19 MR. HAM: It was created I believe -- 20 Well, I know this much about the title, at one point 21 this boat house, which is the Balcolm property and 22 Campbell property, were one parcel. Since there is 23 no road there, which I've said, in order to give 2i access to the boat house, I suspect the easement was 25 created at that time to give them access to East End FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 22 9:05:52 ):0515f I~165158 19:06:05 1~:66:08 i9106111 1~:06113 910612~ 13:06:33 1~:0614~ 19106:53 19:07:01 19107:05 9:07:07 1 master plan and from which yard and other 2 requirements shall be measured. 3 So how to fine tune what you're saying ~ in relation to this is going to require a little 5 thought. 6 MR. HAM: I think I'll talk to the 7 building department. MR. HORNING: Also, Mr. Ham, because it 9 is a loop and because Mr. Campbell does own all of 10 the property, it is not inconceivable that he could 11 actually move the right of way to what would be the 12 proper location, which would be right alongside his 1~ boundary of the property with FIDCO, and he would 14 not obstruct his neighbor's access, Balcolm, because 15 the access is already there to begin with. He 'would 16 just be eliminating one half of that loop and 1~ Balcolm has enough property in their driveway to 18 turn their car around and get in and out. MR. HAM: Can you help me here. Where 20 exactly is this loop? 21 MR. HORNING: I'll show you exactly 22 where it is. It is right here, it goes up like 23 this, comes down like this and goes out like that. MR. HAM: But he's using at that point, 25 the property of FIDCO. FREELANCE L.I., INC. 24 COURT REPORTERS MR. HORNING: That is his property line. MR. HAM: That is Campbell's property line. But this road, according to Mr. Strausse, I believe, is not within the Campbell boundary. You see what I'm saying. MR. HORNING: I don't know. I don't know where the road is in -- all I know is that right along the golf course property is this loop effect. That goes just like that. In fact, on the phone Mr. Campbell told me that he would move this right of way to eliminate this and put it over here along the property line. MR. HAM: Okay. MR. HORNING: And provide access for his neighbor the Balcolm's that way. 19,ov:~ 19 19:07:57 20 19:07:5~ 21 19:moo 22 m0a:07 25 FREELANCE L.I., INC. 25 MR. HAM: You understand he would need Balcomlm's consent. MR. HORNING: Well, I don't want. Because I don't know whose right of way it is legally. MR. HAM: It would at least need Balcolm's consent. MR. HORNING: Yes, but they might be agreeable. MR. HAM: I think they might be. Let me COURT REPORTERS 13:~3,2~ 5 19:08:24 6 19:08:28 8 19:0~:30 13:o~:37 ~2 19:0g:~6 14 mo~:4~ 15 mo~:ss 17 mos:ss 18 19:o9:o7 21 19:o9:1o 22 mmlS 23 :3:09:3~ 25 road from which -- FREELANCE LI., INC. MS. COLLINS: Okay. MR. HAM: Because the road is shown on the town official map. MS. COLLINS: The path that the Balcolm driveway, you have stated is owned in deed by Campbell's, is bounded by land that they own, this deed, on both sides. i9:09:33 8 13:o9:~o 10 !3:a3:53 !6 19:09:36 1~ ~::3:os 22 13:~o=1~ 24 19:10:16 25 FREELANCE L.L, INC. 27 26 see where I get with the building department. THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Collins, do you have any requests of Mr. Harm MS. COLLINS: For the clarity of the record, Balcolm is the boat house, right. MR. HAM: Yes. MS. COLLINS: I'll call it a path. MR. HAM: Yes, the Balcolm house is reached by the right of way that is shown on the survey submitted with the application. MS. COLLINS: You are calling that a right of way tonight. That is a thing that you've also referred to purely as an easement, right? I want to make sure -- we were all over the lot here wkh certain words floating around the testimony, I want the record to be clear so that when we read it, it will be fresh what is being claimed. I think your principal assertion is that the building department believed that there was a right of way that rises to the level of a street under our code definition, too close to the proposed building site. MR. HAM: Either that, or there was a COURT REPORTERS 19:!0:19 13:10:22 19:10:27 19:10:30 19:10:~5 19:~0:3~ 6 I9:~o:s~ !0 ImO:sv 12 19,11:18 18 13:11g~ 19 m:::~ 21 i9:I1:26 22 m11:32 24 1 surveyor put it on there. So I think they're 2 probably required to show it. It is something that $ affects land, title to land, so they put it on the 4 survey. That is an easement that is permanently pertinent to the Balcohn property, it runs with the land. When the next owner acquires the Balcohn property, they will have that easement, unless we do revise it, find the proper parties, which is not difficult to find who would have to consent to that. MR. HORNING: That would alleviate the Campbell's problem a great deal. MR. HAM: Yes, it would. If they have to do that legally, then we will certainly do that. If -- I know he has indicated an agreement to do it. I happen to feel that he% entitled by right to do what he wants. Now I may be proved right if I go to the building department, and l may be back here in January. THE CHAIRMAN: For the record, you bring some interesting cases to this board. Is there anybody else that would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Hearing no further comment, and seeing 2~ no further hands, I'll make a motion recessing it to FREELANCE L.I., INC. 28 COURT REPORTERS MR. HAM: Yes. MS. COLLINS: I think you have asserted that it is no way a street under our code. MR. HAM: I would maintain that they would not have to setback from that. MS. COLLINS: Yes, I just wanted to get that clear. THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. D. MR. DINIZIO: Then there is no separate deed for this right of way. MR. HAM: It is indeeded. MR. DINIZIO: It is an easement over a piece of land that they happen to own. If you took the map that no longer has a right of way back on there, if you had done that in the first place, they probably would have made the decision first at the building inspector. We are hoping that they' -- MR. HAM: That is quite true but the COURT REPORTERS 19:11:37 lg:!!N1 19:i1:42 19:11:47 6 i9:11:4~ 7 19:11:51 ih12:2~ 9 i~:~2:~? 10 ~:12:~ 12 mi]:n 18 i~:n:n 21 i~:i3:~3 22 i~:i3:~6 23 mini 25 29 1 the next regularly scheduled meeting. 2 MS. KOWALSKI: Could we have a date with 3 that, please. 4 THE CHAIRMAN: January 21st. MS. COLLINS: Second. THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor. (All ayes) MR. HAM: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: The next appeal is on behalf of John and Gall Meyer, it is 2645, which is Reeve Avenue in Mattituck. This concerns a storage building. What would you like to tell us, Mr. Meyer. MR. MEYER: When the house was situated originally, I didn't realize the house was on a comer in Southold town, that I had two front yards, that is why the shed wound up on the side yard there, for lawn mower, gasoline and pool chlorine, and that type of thing. I didn't want to store that in the house. THE CHAIRMAN: Is there any utility or electric in that. MR. MEYER: Yes, there is electricity. There is a spotlight up on the driveway. THE CHAIRMAN: As depicted on the FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS :9:'a.~: 1 survey, it is 1012, probably. !~:i~:9? 2 Mr. Dinizio, do you have any questions ~9~i3:~ 3 of Mr. Meyer? ~:~3:~ 4 Ms. Collins? 5 MS. COLLINS: No. 1~:13:41 6 THE CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora? 19:n:4~ 7 MRS. TORTORA: (Shakes head) ig:l~:e 8 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Homing? i9:!Ng 9 MR. HORNING: I would like to inquire as '_9::N? 10 to how did the shed come to be as built and then ~=13:~ lq notice that it was in violation of code? 1N~..s~ !2 MR. MEYER: I didn't realize you needed :9:m00 13 a permit for a shed, for something like a utility ~:14:0s 1~ structure like that. It is kind of tucked off in n0:leO~ 15 the woods, it is setback. !gc,eio 16 MR. HORNING: It is a prebuilt shed that :~::4:12 17 you purchased and put there. !~:i4:i~ 18 MR. MEYER: No, it is something that I ~:m2 D built, I myself. ~:14:x0 20 MR. HORNING: The building department ~:ml~ 21 noticed it, is that what happened. i9:ieia 22 MR. MEYER: No, the house was sold. It :9::e2v 23 was picked up on the survey. Again, I didnk think ig:n:~i 24 anything of it. When ~ve went to closing, realized 19..i::t~ 25 there was a problem. FREELANCE LI., INC. 30 COURT REPORTERS I9:!4:40 2 19:14:47 5 ig::~:E 7 19:15:0~ 11 12 i~:i~:ii 1~ mien 19 ig:i~:~i 21 ig:i~m 22 i~:i~:~i 23 3! MR. HORNING: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application. Anybody like to speak against the application? Okay, we'll try to dispense with this as quickly as possible. We thank you for coming in. Hearing no further comment, I make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. MRS. TORTORA: Second. THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor? (All ayes) THE CHAIRMAN: Next one is appeal number 4631, Lydia Layda. I have copies of the original zoning map for the subdivision, copies of surveys of the lot, the house lot, the lot next to the house, and I have a copy of the Suffolk County tax map, indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. I l~lieve, Mr. Olson, you are coming before us tonight. Happy holidays to you. How are you? MR. OLSON: For the record, my name is i~:is:ix 24 {~:~arry Olson, I'm the attorney for the applicant, i9:i6:34 25 Lydia Layda. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 32 ! This is a situation where a client tried 2 to do the right thing, the family tried to do the 3 right thing. They bought three pieces of property, 4 they bought two pieces on a filed subdivision map b known as Eastwood Estates, section 2. They 6 purchased a house piece, which is Lot No. 22 on the ? filed map, and there is a house on that piece, there 8 was a building permit issued, and there is a 9 Certificate of Occupancy on that parcel. For the record, the C.O. number for the 11 house is Z3551. 12 They purchased the house parcel on May 13 20, 1968, from a Janet Field and some other parties. 14 This piece was purchased by Ronald Layda and his 15 wife, Lydia, back on May 20, 1968. Then on November !6 2d, 1969, Mr. Layda purchased the parcel next door, 17 on Eastwood Drive, as Lot No. 21, on the map of 18 Eastwood Estates, section 2, and that lot is vacant. 19 Then, back on July 27, 1973, from people 20 by the name of Dietz, Mrs. Layda purchased a parcel, 21 which was also a vacant piece, which is on Fleetwood 22 Drive. That is a described parcel and the Southotd 23 town zoning board of appeals granted a variance on 24 that piece under Appeal No. 81810, for that to be a 25 building parcel. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS :.~::8:2~ 1 That parcel presently has an accessory ,~9~:.~:25 2 shed on it which was built pursuant to a building ~:~a:2a 3 permit, and a C.O. was issued for that. ~:~a:~2 4 Mr. Layda passed away and under the ~::s:~ 5 terms of his will, his entire estate passed to his 6 wife. Also, when he passed away, the house parcel ? which was held by both of them as tenants by the 8 entirety, then passed to her by his death. So the g current situation now is that by death, she owns all 10 three parcels. That is why we are before this 11 zoning board of appeals, in an effort to get a 12 waiver of merger. ~::~:~ 13 i applied for a determination of merger ~::~:0~ 14 back in, I think June of 1997, and I filed an :~=:~::2 15 application with the building department, and it ~:~:~ 16 wasn't I think until August of 1998 that t finally t~:~:~ !7 got a determination that we had to come before the :~:~:2: lg board. I actually got a verbal indication from one ~s:~s::v !9 of the building inspectors that the town attorney :s::~:=s 20 had determined that these parcels did not merge. He '_.~::.~:~a 21 would not give me anything in writing but based on ~:'_~:~? 22 that, Mrs. Layda entered into a contract to sell Lot ~,:~:4~ 23 No. 21, which is the vacant lot next to her house, ~::~=4~ 24 which contract was contingent on it being a valid ~:~_~:s0 25 building parcel. And it was at that time that the 33 :~:2~:~0 ! not more. I respectfully submit that the waiver :~:z~:~ 2 will not result in a significant increase in the ~:2~:3~ 3 density of the neighborhood. The waiver would ~:~:~ 4 recognize that lots tend -- that is, tax Lot No. 10 ~:~:~ 5 and tax Lot No. 1.2 would be consistent with the ~:=~:4~ 6 size and shapes of other lots in the neighborhood. m~::so 7 That the waiver would avoid economic hardship to :.0:~_:52 8 Mrs. Layda. As I've indicated, she's under contract :~:~:s~ 9 to sell tax Lot No. 10 for 60 thousand pending a ,.~:2..':02 10 favorable outcome from this application. It is ~:zz:2z !! anticipated that the vacant lot tax parcel 101.2 t~:~:~2 12 with frontage on a different road, would have at 1~:~::4 13 least a similar value of 60 thousand. ~:~:~ 14 Finally, the natural details and ~:~:~8 15 contours and slopes of the lots will not be ~:22:~ 16 significantly changed or altered, and it would not :s:~2::~ 17 be a subsubstantial filling of land which would :.~:~2:2~ 18 affect any nearby or environmental flood areas. It '_~:~::~ 19 is respectfully requested that this board look ~::~:~ 20 favorably on this application. ~:2~:~7 2! THE CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora has a z~=~=~s 22 specific thing that she wants to discuss with you on ~:~:40 23 one of the aspects of the notice of disapproval. m=2:4~ 24 MRS. TORTORA: All right. This is my ~:==:4v 25 assigned file and I did go through it very carefully FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 34 COURT REPORTERS FREELANCE LI., INC. ~:~:s~ 1 building department said that we did have to, after ~::s:~,v 2 talking to the new town attorney, come before the "..~:~:~8 3 board for this new, this application. ~:~:~_~ 4 I respectfully submit that the purpose ~:20=os 5 of the new merger law was not to penalize people z~:~'0:~0 6 that tried to do the right thing at the right time ~:~0:~? when they purchased the parcels. They obviously ~:~0:~8 tried to keep them all in single and separate ~s:20:~ 9 ownership. In the situation where there is a death, :~:~c:~ 10 where the merger is caused by death, Mrs. Layda get :~:2~:~ 11 three separate tax bills for each parcel. If you :~:~a:~,2 12 look at the neighborhood and look at the tax map, if :~:~8:~4 13 you just eyeball it, to prevent her from selling :~:20~42 14 either the lot next to her house, or the one behind, ~:~0:4~ 15 which is -- it is only partially behind the house, ~:~0:s0 !6 it is a piece on a totally separate road, to prevent ~:~0:s4 17 the waiver of merger from taking place, means she ~.~:~:00 18 would have two parcels which would be totally ~:n:0~ !9 unusable for her. m~:0~ 20 Quite frankly, she struggled ever since :.~:~::cs 21 her husband has died to raise two children. And '~:~:::~_ 22 these two lots were really purchased for their ~:_~:'_~ 23 future. And the one parcel now is under contract ~:2~:~0 24 for 60 thousand and the one behind her house on ~:~'_:~ 25 Fleets Neck Road, is probably worth at least 60 if FREELANCE L.I., INC. 35 ~:22:s0 1 and I studied all the background in it. I would :~:~2:s~. 2 just note that you waited a long time from a notice ~_~:~2:~0 3 of disapproval. ~:~:0~ 4 The creation of Lots 10 and 11, and how ~:2~:0s 5 they merge, is very apparent to me. In the notice ~:~2::~ 6 of approval, which you finally did receive from the ~s:2~::~ 7 building department, the notice of disapproval was :~:2~:2~ 8 for Lot 10 and 11, which is, you accurately said, :~:2~:~0 9 the building department had said had merged. ~:.~:~ lO However, Lot 12, was not disapproved on 2.~:z~:-,.~ !1 the grounds that it was merged. If you read z~=2~:4~ 12 carefully the notice of the disapproval, the ~:~:4s 13 building deparuaent is contending that it is not 4~:~:s: !4 buildable because of the condition of the prior ~:~.~:s~ 15 thing, or that is their belief. m~:.~s 16 When I we want through the logistics of :s:~:o_~ 17 all of this, Lot 1.2 is not merged. It cannot be i.~:a:a~ 18 merged under our code, because number one, under :~:~:~ 19 10025, it is a recognized lot because the lot was ~:~4:~ 20 created by approval of the zoning board prior to ~_~:.~::: 21 1983. So the lot is a recognized lot. '_~:2-,.:zv 22 As far as the potential for it being ~:~4:~ 23 merged, it is exempted from the merger provisions ~:~4:~ 24 under 125 for the same reason, because it had 1.~:~4:3~ 25 received prior approval from the zoning board. This 36 FREELANCE L.L, INC. COURT REPORTERS COURT REPORTERS 10 19:24:42 19:24:55 19:2~:57 19:25:0i 19:25:13 19:22:20 10 19:2s:23 11 19:25:20 !2 19:25:33 13 ~912~:~9 16 ~91~91~o 17 ~912~:~ 19 1912s:~ 20 1~:mo2 21 1912~:oB 22 37 is not contested and I don't think that that point, that Lot 1.2 is merged, is contested in the notice of disapproval. However, since you have applied for a determination of merger for all three lots, we are in a bit of a quandary. We can take action on lots 10 and 11, which the building department has made a determination of merger. We can take action on that aspect of the application. However, on Lot 1.2, since you have not made an application before us to reverse the decision of the building department that this -- reverse their decision that it is not because of this alleged condition, what do we do? I don't want you to go around in any more circles, because I read the paper trail. MR. OLSON: If I could now on the record withdraw the application for a determination of waiver of merger for lot 1.1, in that it's not necessary -- 1.2, in. that it is not necessary. So this... MRS. TORTORA: Thought of that. In other words, that is not going to remedy your solution, because what will -- they have already determined 39 z912v:2s 1 withdraw his determination that 1.1 is not buildable 1~12~1il 2 because of your decision under Appeal No. 81810. 191~:.~ 3 THE CHAIRMAN: We had made the town i~10v190 4 attorney aware of that tonight. ~:~:~ 5 MRS. TORTORA: We discussed that with 191;v140 ~ him tonight. I wanted to make sure we are all on i~=:~v14] 7 the same page. :9:2v:4~ 8 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Homing, any 1912v:4s 9 questions. ~:2v:~ 10 MR. HORNING: Not at this time. ~91~:~011 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Collins. is:=7:~s 12 MS. COLLINS: I think the most logical 9~:~:s0 13 approach is to ask the building department to reread 2~10~:.=] 14 that decision 1810, which I think reads very 9~:~v:s? 15 clearly. But asking the building department to ~_~:~:a0 16 reread decisions is not necessarily a productive zg:~s:0~ 17 line of attack. If they would, that would be the 1~12s:0~ 18 most expeditious way. ~912~10s 19 MR. OLSON: Is it possible to get l~:me9 20 something from the zoning board now to the building m201~_,_ 21 inspector, saying that you are wrong in your m201i~ 22 interpretation? '_91201~ 23 MRS. TORTORA: We have no application 24 that it's not buildable. So how -- how will you get 25 to where you ~vant to be. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 1~12~:~ ! MR. OLSON: I think the way I have to 1~12~12~ 2 get where I want to be is to make another lS:m~ 3 application before the zoning board for a m2~:~ 4 determination as to. 38 ~912s:'_~ 24 for that. The town attorney did pretty much suggest i9:~119 2~ what you had said to act on. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 19:26:30 5 1~:2fi:3i 6 19:26:36 7 19:26:39 8 19:2~:40 9 19:2~:~ 10 191m~ 11 ~s:~:~o 12 1~126155 15 1912v:o0 17 m27:0s 19 19:27:06 20 I~:27:00 21 m2~:9~ 22 MRS. TORTORA: An application to reverse this particular notice of disapproval, that aspect which deals with Lot 1 -- MR. OLSON: Based upon the building department's interpretation of your appeal number 1810. MRS. TORTORA: Yes. We want to go to the same place, I just want to figure out how to do it. THE CHAIRMAN: We just all want to end up on the porch together. MR. OLSON: Phillip and Clair Dietz made that application, and they did build a house on tax lot parcel 1.1. THE CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. OLSON: If I have to come before the board again in order to get a clarification of its old decision, that, I'll have to do. But hopefully what I can do, is maybe take this up again with the building department as to tax lot 1.1 and talk to 25 the town attorney and have the building inspector FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS MR. OLSON: I have m make a separate application. MRS. TORTORA: Waiver provision and then talk to the building department again. I think ~_9:~:~1 5 he will also do the same. l~::s:~ ~ MS. KOWALSKh It is possible they could 1~12~:~ ~ seconc~ a memo over to the board for a clarification 191201~ 8 informally on it. ~:201~0 9 MRS. TORTORA: The town attorney 191~0,~: 10 indicated that he was going to talk to them. '~91~01.~0 11 MR. OLSON: Ill take it up with t]he 9~:201~9 12 town attorney. ~.91.~:~ 13 MRS. TORTORA: Good idea. ~9:2~:Sl 14 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. D? 19:2~°:~5 15 MR. DINIZIO: No comment. 1~12e154 16 THE CHAIRMAN: No comment. Is there l~:ms¢ 17 anybody else who would like to speak in favor of 1.~:~01s0 18 this application? m20:s0 19 Would anybody like to speak against the ~_.~:~91~ 20 application? In favor or against. How are you, m~9:c~ 21 sir. m¢9109 22 MR. SCHOENHAUER: My name is Roy 191~91i~ 23 Schoenhauer, I have the piece of property adjacent 19129:1~ 24 to the property in question. My family and I would ~:~11~ 2~ be delighted to have neighbors there. It is a nice 40 FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 11 41 1¢129120 1 piece of property, it fits into the neighborhood and i9129123 2 we are for it. 19,29129 3 THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody else. Like to ~::~15~ 4 speak for or against? 191291i~ 5 Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion 1912~:~.9 6 closing the hearing and reserving the decisio~ until le122149 7 later. :9:29:44 8 MRS. TORTORA: Second. i0129145 9 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor? 10 (All ayes) 19129,-'J 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming in. 19:~0,04 i2 The next appeal is on behalf of Judith 19159105 13 Falbo, and it is Appeal No. 4638. This is for a B&B i91!0119 14 in Mattituck. 1913~120 15 Mrs. Falbo, state your name for the :~1!9121 16 record, please. 1913~124 17 MRS. FALBO: Judy Falbo. 1919012~ 18 THE CHAIRMAN: How do you do, what would ~91~0.,25 !9 you like to tell us, anything. m~0130 20 MRS. FALBO: No. ~9130131 21 THE CHAIRMAN: You graciously showed us m5~:~2 22 your house last Sunday late morning. We saw the two !21i0137 23 bedrooms upstairs that you intend to utilize for the m:0:~: 24 bed and breakfast. We instructed your daughter at 1~132109 19132110 2 30132119 29132121 5 19332324 7 193t2328 19332329 9 191!21!0 10 3~132134 12 19:3~:~0 17 19192151 l~ m11,o~ 22 1~1391o9 23 191~i:o~ 24 43 131t0147 25 the time to ask you for a parking plan. She may or FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 19130131 19120194 2 !2131100 3 19131108 !9:31:13 1933131~ 7 19131119 8 19131122 9 101i1124 10 9~19i19~ 12 i9133:94 13 19131197 i4 19131145 17 !9m15~ 21 39:33:55 22 ~913~:s 23 may not have mentioned it to you. If she did not, we ask you before the night is over, or the latest tomorrow, by the close of the day, to give us a parking plan so as the circular driveway is not obstructed and so there would be no backing out on New Suffolk Avenue, which is an extremely difficult road to back out on. If you are anticipating the use of both bedrooms at the same time, then of course we would definitely want a parking plan for three cars, two cars anyway of the guests, and whatever family cars were utilized on the property. It seems that the two times that I was there, that there is an internal clog on the driveway by cars being. MRS. FALBO: They all go to college, next year. I have three rooms, though. The one downstairs was also. THE CHAIRMAN: We didn't see the downstairs bedroom, where is that, in the back of the house. MRS. FALBO: She said the one on the side was too small. The one downstairs across from the bathroom would be used, it would fit a double 191~2104 25 bed as large as the two other rooms. FREELANCE L.I., INC. 25 questions of Mrs. Falbo. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 42 COURT REPORTERS 12:33:o9 1 !9:33:i0 2 19:33:13 3 19:33:17 19133120 19132123 6 193!3330 8 19133139 !2 22 19194101 23 393!433t 25 FREELANCE L.I., INC. 44 MS. COLLINS: Just for Ms. Falbos' benefit, I would say that what the code requires is one parking spot, space, location, per guest room, and would for a house, for the people who live in the house. So the minimum is that you have to be able to show a place to put five cars that didn't block your driveway. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. MS. KOWALSKI: Tlae garage counts as two if it is open. MS. COLLINS: The garage would count. It wasn't clear to me if it was in use. MRS. FALBO: It is a two car garage. MS. COLLINS: It is a garage, or is it a shed. Then that is significant on your. MRS. FALBO: All right. THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody else, questions of this lady? While you're standing there, is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this? Anybody like to speak against the application? Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later. MR. HORNING: Second. COURT REPORTERS THE CHAIRMAN: So you'll now need a parking plan for at least three guest cars. MRS. FALBO: That area where the trailer is, is two. They told me where the garage is is tWO. THE CHAIRMAN: You have an original copy of the survey or do we have the only one here. MRS. FALBO: You have. MS. KOWALSKh We have the only one. THE CHAIRMAN: Why don't you stop in tomorrow when you're going to your place of business, and we'll give you a copy of this and you can mark this one up. MS. KOWALSKI: Can she do it tonight. THE CHAIRMAN: ~Of course she can do it tonight. MS. KOWALSKh You won't have the decision for a month. If you do it tonight, you might be able to. THE CHAIRMAN: We'll take a short break and copy the map and let you draw it in. MRS. TORTORA: Soyou don't have to come back. THE CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any 12 19:34:13 i9:34:13 2 !9:34:!9 19:34:13 4 19:34:i9 19:40:44 6 19:40:45 7 lh4~:57 9 !9:4~:00 10 19:41:~s 12 I9:4i:I6 !3 19:41:17 14 !9:C:2D 15 ma:2z 16 19:41:z4 17 19:a:s !8 lS:41:~1 19 i9:4~:~4 20 !~:44:0~ 21 ~N~:9~ 22 ~:4~:40 23 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor? (All ayes) THE CHAIRMAN: At this time, weql take a two minute break just enough to run out, and copy this. (Brief recess) THE CHAIRMAN: We need a motion to reconvene ? The next hearing on the agenda, is on behalf of Joseph Lebkuecher, Appeal No. 4581. State your name for the record? MR. LEBKUECHER: Joe Lebkuecher. THE CHAIRMAN: What would you like to tell us? What has changed from the last time we started with you, Mr. Lebkuecher. MR. LEBKUECHER: I'm applying for a six foot stockade fence. THE CHAIRMAN: In the front yard area. MR. LEBKUECHER: We changed the. THE CHAIRMAN: Is there any particular reason why you need six feet in the front yard. MR. LEBKUECHER: I'd like to have the six foot to hide some of the equipment we are going to 45 24 have, from some of the neighbors' property. I think 29 it would be more convenient to have a six foot for FREELANCE LL, INC. COURT REPORTERS 46 -- if anybody wants to steal anything, it is harder to climb over a six foot than a four foot. THE CHAIRMAN: You're anticipating putting the plantings in front of the fence, you're going to put plantings in, arbor vitae. MR. LEBKUECHER: I'm going to put plantings on the front of the Franklinville Road, 19:43:17 2 19:43:]9 19:49:21 4 19:43:23 !9:43:25 10:43:2~ 7 I9:43:29 19:43:30 9 19:4~:~ 10 IS14~106 11 ~914914~ 12 !9:44o0 21 191441N 23 1591441=3 25 turned into a variety shop. FREELANCE LI., INC. !19144123 19144127 19144130 19144135 lh44139 19:!4:41 19:44:43 47 THE CHAIRMAN: That is showing 129 feet, 11 inches, or something like that. We'll see how this goes. Mr. Dinizio, do you have any questions of Mr. Lebkuecher? MR. DINIZIO: No, you eliminated the wall you were going to put up. MR. LEBKUECHER: Yes, we did. MR. DINIZIO: All you're looking for is to hide some equipment that isn't there yet. MR. LEBKUECHER: It is not there yet but we're going to have bales of peat moss there, and I think it would look a lot nicer if we had a six foot fence rather than a four. THE CHAIRMAN: Are you anticipating a gate where the driveway is going in? MR. LEBKUECHER: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Collins? MS. COLLINS: Mr. Chainnan, I think my Xerox doesn't cover everything that is on yours. The fence goes behind the Elbow Room and the whole length, Mr. Lebkuecher, of your property going out towards the dog groomer, in that direction. How far does the fence go. There is the Elbow Room and then there is the place that is COURT REPORTERS MR. LEBKUECHER: It is going to go right to the property, to the line. Because there is -- just woods and stuff back in there, we wanted to block off the whole thing. MS. COLLINS: Okay, fine. MR. LEBKUECHER: It will go probably right up to the line. 48 !9:42:20 8 !914212E 9 19:42:27 !0 191a:91 11 i9:42:36 !2 2:42:}s 13 1~:42:4~ 15 19:4~:so 17 19:4~:s !9 ~9:49:~! 21 ~9:49:05 22 i9:~9:ov 23 1~:4~:o9 24 19:49:n 25 is what we're going to do. FREELANCE LI., INC. and in back of the fence behind The Elbow 2. THE CHAIRMAN: Running the length of the Elbow property, Mr. Saunders property, from Franklinville Road, or from where they start on Franklinville Road, is the fence going to be in front or back. MR. LEBKUECHER: Where our property meets Franklinville Road, they are going to be in front of of the fence. The Elbow 2, the property right there, they're going to be behind the fence. THE CHAIRMAN: What about the length between Franklinville Road on the west side to that point, which is in the back, basically, the rear of the property, or the east side of Mr. Saunders' property, and the west side of your property. MR. LEBKUECHER: We are going to plant arbor vitaes in the front of the fence. Yes, that COURT REPORTERS 19:44:44 ~ MS. COLLINS: I didn't mean to confuse 19:44:4~ 9 the question. I was asking that, I think you 1~:44:49 10 answered that the fence that will be running behind :9:,::~ 11 the Elbow Room will run behind the other properties 99,44:.~4 12 along that stretch of road to the end of your :9:44:94 13 property. 19:4415v 14 MR. LEBKUECHER: Right. 1914419e 15 MS. COLLINS: Then it takes a 90 degree 391491ec 16 turn and comes down to Franklinville Road, and goes 99:4::00 17 along the very front of your property ~vhere you're :N.~:cs 18 going to have your gate. 091a0v 19 MR. LEBKUECHER: Yes. 19,a0a 20 MS. COLLINS: Then it ends at Mrs. 19:49112 21 Berdinka's property line. 191.'.~11~ 22 MR. LEBKUECHER: It ends right there. 291451xs 23 MS. COLLINS: Okay, thank you. x9:4911v 24 THE CHAIRMAN: Was there a time that you i91491i9 25 had discussed this with Mrs. Berdinka at all, was FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 13 49 1 she aware of this plan, to your knowledge? 2 Probably not. 3 MR. LEBKUECHER: I told her we were going 4 to put arbor vitaes in the front, we are going to 5 landscape the front. 6 THE CHAIRMAN: I assume she was happy 7 with that, or she would have been here. 8 MR. LEBKUECHER: She has not said 9 anything to me. 10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, good. 11 MRS. TORTORA: I wanted to know that 12 you do not plan to put up the retaining wall. !3 MR. LEBKUECHER: No. I can show you 14 what we did instead. She didn't seem to be too !5 happy about the wall the last time I was here, she ~6 was very upset, so we did something else. I have 17 pictures of it. 18 MS. COLLINS: It looks very nice. MR. LEBKUECHER: This is before. And 20 this is after. And the attempt to put arbor vitaes 21 up on top of the hill so she doesn't see -- so 22 she'll see the grass and then the arbor vitaes. 23 The water is going to go towards the 24 west now. 25 THE CHAIRMAN: Did someone from water FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 1914~142 2 1934~332 6 19,46356 19:47:37 22 50 conservation help you with that. MR. LEBKUECHER: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: We use them specifically on bluffs when there is high erosion areas, and they go out and gNe us evaluations, so they would be very helpful in your behalf also. MRS. TORTORA: Looks like you worked out a good solution. MR. LEBKUECHER: Yes, it worked out fide. THE CHAIRMAN: Great. Can we have these. MR. LEBKUECHER: Sure, go ahead. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: I believe we left off -- Mr. Homing, any questions of Mr. Lebkuecher? MR. HORNING: No, I don't have any. THE CHAIRMAN: I remember while you're standing there, Joseph, we'll see, is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the application? Is there anyone else who would like to speak against the application? Hearing no further comment, I make a motion to close the hearing ,reserving decision 25 until later. Thank you, sir. We are reserving FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 8934735! ~ 193~1306 4 i9348324 6 3~:~93o= 12 3~34f:~ 20 I93~9327 21 z~3493~ 22 51 decision until later. Have a happy holiday. MR. LEBKUECHER: You too. THE CHAIRMAN: Next appeal is on behalf of William and Rose Maury, Appeal No. 4633. I have a copy of a construction plan from Penny Lumber, Dated 9/9/98. And a copy of a survey, most recent date is April 14, 1998, on behalf of John T. Metzker, indicating the filling in or squaring off of the house. And I have a copy of the Suffolk County tax map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. I believe I have a letter up here tonight. Yes, I have a letter from an Antoinette Tisbo. Pleasure meeting you. State your names for the record, please. MR. MAURY: William Maury. MRS. MAURY: Rose Maury. THE CHAIRMAN: What would you like to tell us. MR. MAURY: As you're aware, we are seeking a variance for the side yard setbacks as well as the lot coverage. Not being very familiar with the process, help us a little bit in terms of 25 specifically what we should be asking or suggesting. FREELANCE L.I., iNC. COURT REPORTERS 19349345 1934934~ 2 19;49350 4 19349357 6 1339o384 10 m~o:o? 11 1~:so::: 12 ~931o34~ 22 52 THE CHAIRMAN: We will significantly grill you and you will be grilled. MR. MAURY: That is fair. THE CHAIRMAN: Your neighbor has indicated to us that they have a specific concern. MRS. MAURY: We are aware of dxeir correspondence to you. THE CHAIRMAN: What would you like to tell us regarding that concern. MR. MEYER: Michael and Antoinette's concern, Mr. And Mrs. Tisbo, was that the squaring off of that property, which is going in the place of an outside patio, that currently exists, would somehow alter their privacy or potentially detract from. MRS. MAURY: I think their wording was that it would negatively impact their property value and deprive them of some privacy. We were, I guess, surprised to find out that they had corresponded with you, because before we had even put in the initial application, with the building department that was denied, we had met with them first and we had spoken with them and told them 24 of our intention. They said it is your property, 25 you do what you want. We are sure it will be FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 14 !9:59:54 19:50:55 2 1~:50:59 3 19:51:02 4 I9:51:05 19:51:09 6 !9:51:!3 7 !t:51:i8 99:5!:2! 9 19:55:25 10 19:51:92 12 1~:51:34 13 19:51:35 14 19:51:a 16 !9:5!:~7 17 19:51:59 22 19:52:C2 23 53 lovely. So in answering their, I guess direct two concerns, I don't see how squaring off the back of our garage to meet the back of our house to enclose what formerly was an outside patio that we might use when we barbecue or haveguests outside, now enclosing it as a Florida room or sun porch, it is invisible from the front. On the side of their garage. There aren't any bedroom windows or windows on their living space that even open up to that area. So I don't know really how that would detract from their market value. If they are not making any objection to any patio or deck space we want to have in our rear yard, I'm not sure how they are concerned how it would detract from their privacy because it is really the side of their garage. I believe I enclosed some photographs for you of the front and side. I do have a couple of additional ones, but i think they may be the same of what you have. THE CHAIRMAN: Do you concur with the building inspector's determination with respect to lot coverage? MR. MAURY: Yes, we do. !9:53:22 1t:53:25 2 Ih53:2t 3 19:53:31 4 i9:53:35 5 19:53:38 6 19:53:4C 7 19:53:44 !9:5N6 10 !9:53:~9 ii ms~:s 12 z~:sa:52 13 lS:5e01 16 19:54:o4 17 department and it was refused because of the side lot setback, we spoke to someone in your office who said if you're ever going to plan to do anything else, you should get the plans and apply for t]he variance all at once so you don't have to go through the process again. That is when we put through the revised application adding the deck area behind the house. MR. MAURY: Which was submitted on the drawings by Penny. MRS. MAURY: It is on the drawings by Penny. plan. THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, in the construction MR. MEYER: We have a copy he~, too. MRS. TORTORA: So the proposed deck addition, is how close to the lot line? MRS. MAURY: It doesn't come anywhere 19:54:0t 19 near the lot line. 19:5~.:u 20 MRS. TORTORA: I see where you are. :9:54:1~ 21 MRS. MAURY: Inside of both edges of :t:5~:1-'_ 22 the house. z9:5-'.:i~ 23 MS. COLLINS: It is 10 feet. MR. DINIZIO: 11 feet, they indicate. 25 MRS. MAURY: That it exceeds the 20 FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 19:52:07 1 19:52:09 2 19:52:11 3 19:~2:13 4 i9:52:i4 5 1]:52:H 6 percent, yes. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I guess we'll start with Mr. Homing. Mr. Homing, do you have any questions of these people. MR. HORNING: No, I don't. 19:52:20 i9:52:22 29:52:2! 19:5N5 10 19:~:~ 12 ~9:5~:~5 13 19:52:37 14 19:ma 15 !9:5~:5~ 17 lh59:52 18 :9:~9:~4 20 19:53:U 21 1~:59:n 22 19:53:15 23 19:53:17 24 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Homing -- excuse me one second. Are you leaving at 8:00 o'clock? MR. HORNING: I should be, yes, or roughly, there. THE CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora. MRS. TORTORA: The survey I'm looking at, April 14, 1998, for the proposed deck, have you eliminated the deck? MR. MAURY: No, we had not. MRS. MAURY: The original, the September 18 survey, 1997, which was then updated for April 1998, was to show that we were taking the concrete patio and trying to enclose that into a Florida room, or sun room. And the surveyor inadvertently put in "proposed deck" there. So we had crossed that off and showed that that was the proposed enclosed area of the home. But then when we went to the building 54 55 MRS. MAURY: Yes. We prepared something for you to break it down in square footage. THE CHAIRMAN: Great, we'll take that definitely. MRS. MAURY: Will you take that? I have several copies. MRS. TORTORA: Is the existing patio at ground level? 9.9 on one side, and it goes to 17 on the other. Now, does the lot coverage calculations by the building department, include the deck? MRS. MAURY: Yes. MR. MAURY: Yes, they do. Can you tell us the percentage of lot coverage that the building department has calculated? MRS. TORTORA: It is right on the notice of disapproval, it says that it will be approximate -- your lot coverage. MS. COLLINS: 30.6. MRS. TORTORA: 30.6. MRS. MAURY: Yes, that includes. MR. MAURY: That calculation includes FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 19:54:21 19:54:30 19:54:36 19:5~:36 19:54:40 1t:54:4i 19:54:45 !9:5~:47 i9:5~:~9 10 :9:u:58 12 19:54:59 13 19:55:oI 14 19:55:04 16 19:55:o5 17 19:$5:06 !8 1~:55:o9 19 i9:55~11 20 19:~s:1~ 2! !9:55:1~ 23 z9:s:95 24 56 FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 1~:54:17 24 1.:,=4:'_a 25 MRS. TORTORA: The existing lot line of FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 15 L9:S:41 !9:55:42 2 19:55:44 3 19:55:47 4 19:55:49 5 i9:55:51 6 19:55:53 7 19:55:57 8 10 !hH:14 12 :9:m:9 13 19:56:19 14 mm21 15 19:56:24 16 19:56:2918 19:56:3219 19:s:1} 20 19:m15 21 ms:~7 22 mms~ 23 ~9:5~:5~ 24 MR. MAURY: Yes, it is. MRS. MAURY: It is concrete and because of the natural slope, it probably comes up a couple of inches. MRS. TORTORA: So it is ground level actually. MS. COLLINS: I don't think so, Lydia. MRS. MAURY: It is listed separately right now as 200 square feet? MS. COLLINS: I realize you haven't had the advantage of being able to get down there, and the patio is easily three inches off of grade. MRS. TORTORA: So it wouldn't be calculated in the current lot coverage. MS. COLLINS: It would be. But what they are proposing would take the current patio. MR. MAURY: And expand it with this enclosed Florida room. THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, that is why I'm saying. MS. COLLINS: The current patio does count in current lot coverage. THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have any other plan for the -- do you have any other plan showing 57 19:5%:22 19:58:25 2 19:58:29 3 !9:59:31 4 19:50:34 5 19:58:37 7 19:58:429 10 12 !9:5~:5~ 18 i9:59:C2 20 19:99:o9 21 59 MS. COLLINS: Okay, what you're saying really, is it is an enclosure. It is more like an extension of the house than it is like a green~house, or a sun room. MR. MAURY: That is correct. MRS. MAURY: Absolutely. It will have some sunlight -- MS. COLLINS: Dome lights in the ceiling. MR. MAURY: Skylights. MRS. MAURY: Skylights. THE CHAIRMAN: That is totally different. You're realling talking about a total renovation of the whole rear of the house. MRS. TORTORA: They are going to raise the dormer. THE CHAIRMAN: When I say totally different, it is totally different from what you have now. You are changing the roof line and so on. MR. MAURY: That is correct. MRS. MAURY: We had approached someone 19:59504 22 about enclosing this, so we have an extra three 19559:c,v 23 season room, we were given several ideas. One of 1~:~9510 24 them was one of those glass things that kind of is, 25 the deck on the rear of the house other than the FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 1~557502 1 survey. 19:5v:0~ 2 for us? 19:57:07 3 58 I mean, do you have it drawn in on a survey MRS. MAURY: Not on a survey. We have !~5595n 25 it looks like a greenhouse, the bar in Greenport has FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS it, across from the movie theater. Try to avoid it. It does leak. MR. MAURY: Doesn't fit the island, the 4 it drawn in only on the Penny Lumber plans. 5 MR. MAURY: That was on the plot survey 6 portion. 7 MRS. MAURY: And adapted it. 8 MR. MAURY: It is in the lower left 9 hand comer. 10 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Collins? ll MS. COLLINS: What do you really mean 12 when you say an "enclosed unheated porch"? I 13 notice that one of your bedrooms will look out into 14 this enclosed unheated porch. How enclosed is it? 15 What is it going to look like? MR. MAURY: It's going to have windows 17 on the exterior. The plan I think shows it fairly 18 accurately. But it won't be like a screen, six foot 19 sections of screen, or anything. It will be shut 20 like the exterior of our home. 21 MRS. MAURY: It will look like the 22 exterior of the home, with just probably six foot 23 sliding doors in the back, that would probably go on 24 to the left most portion of the deck and maybe a 25 window next to that. Some. FREELANCE L.I., INC. !9:59:2! 1 19:59:22 2 19:59:24 3 5 MRS. MAURY: We drove around Laughing 6 Waters and found that most people have some type of ? room that is not heated, whether it is more 8 screening or less screening, just lots of window to 9 look over McCrorry Creek, that is what we were hoping to do. The kitchen has double doors, like French doors that would just open into this room to make a nice space just off the kitchen, as an eating area. MS. COLLINS: Another question, Mr. Chairman? There is a garage on the house on the front. MRS. MAURY: Yes. MS. COLLINS: The threshold of the garage is very sharp. Do you actually use it as a garage or are you using it as a shed? It looked like -- I'm interested because you're proposing mcgm 24 among other things to build a shed in the backyard. 29:~0:;~ 25 THE MAN: Our intent is to use it as a COURT REPORTERS 19:59:27 19:55:25 19:59:29 19:59:31 19:59:34 19:59:38 99:59:41 10 19:59:42 11 m99:s 13 195m5! 15 19:59:54 16 19:59:58 18 19:=9:59 !9 ~o:oo:oo 20 20500:01 21 s:oo:o9 23 6O FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 16 61 20200217 1 garage. We have been there less than one year now. 202c0220 2 Just a year. Right now it my workshop. I have 2020~223 3 everything you can name in there. ~c:~c22.~ 4 MRS. MAURY: What patio furniture we do 20:00:28 5 have, redwood, is in there, the washer, boiler, the 20:00:22 6 pump, everything is in there. ~0200234 7 MS. COLLINS: I don't want to surrender :0:00:z~ 8 the floor, Mr. Chairman, without saying that I 202002~ 9 think the Maury's should be aware, this degree of 20:00:42 50 lot coverage is way beyond what this board generally 2020024v ~ finds acceptable. As I calculate it, including the 20200:s4 ~2 concrete patio, the current lot coverage comes out 202002s~ 13 at just 20 percent. 20:0~:02 !4 MR. MAURY: 19.98, right. 20:02:0s 15 MS. COLLINS: Everything they propose to 20202208 16 do, moves you above 20. Adding it all up, moves you 20202209 17 to 30. And t find that way to be beyond what I 20:00:22 18 would ever. 2020020~ 19 MR. MAURY: There is one interesting. 002~020~ 20 MS. COLLINS: Settle for. 2220!2!a 21 MR. MAURY: Sorry to interrupt you. 2~202..20 22 The purpose of the deck and hence it 20:8::22 23 being added into the lot coverage, was in lieu of a 2020028 24 stone or brick type structure, which is ground 2020223~ 25 level. The septic system is behind that, and you FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 63 20201234 ! 2020123~ 2 20201261 202012~ 4 202012~ 5 20201247 6 20201251 7 20201253 20:012§5 9 20:01:58 !0 2o:o~=o2 11 20:02204 12 2020220~ 13 20:02:02 14 20202215 15 2c:;22!~ 16 20:82:20 17 20:0222s 18 20:02:28 ~9 20:02:29 20 2e:o2:2= 21 2020222~ 22 20:02:3~ 23 =0:0~:40 24 20:02:~1 25 need to maintain easy access, should there be a requirement to get to. The low level wood deck offered us the greatest opportunity to do so without major disruption. MRS. MAURY: I guess we are aware if you built the deck and built it up a certain height, that would be included in lot coverage. Didn't realize if you were trying to build a ground level deck that it was considered lot coverage, so we just thought in lieu of putting some type of poured concrete or brick or something that really is ground level, that wouldn't be included in lot coverage, we can't afford to put down a brick patio or pour concrete, and then Murphy's Law is going to have it that the septic system is going to need service and we have to take it out. Much prefer something we don't have to do maintenance on. Decking seemed to be the only affordable alternative. MR. MAURY: And it seemed to fit the rest of the design of the neighborhood. You mentioned in the area, i'm sure you noticed. MS. COLLINS: We are very familiar with the area. We have lot coverage issues right and left. MR. MAURY: We walked around, and it FREELANCE L.I., INC. 62 COURT REPORTERS 20:03:59 20:04:02 2 20:04:07 3 202042!0 4 20204211 202042!2 2S:042i4 7 28204215 8 20:04:29 9 2o2o~,2o 10 2828~222 11 2o:c~:~8 13 =o:o~23~ 14 2o:o~:~o 15 2o:o42so 17 20:0~255 18 2o2os:o2 20 2o2a~:~: 21 i2o2os2o~ 22 2020s20~ 23 the Tisbo's, or not. I wish I had the opportunity to talk to Michael and explain to him what it really was we were doing and see if in fact that was an issue for him. THE CHAIRMAN: My question, why don't you do that. MR. MAURY: I would. It is just an incredible process, but yes, I will do so. MRS. MAURY: One question I have. THE CHAIRMAN: Just let me finish. We are not without the discussion -- I should say, we don't necessarily want to get involved in neighbor disputes but at the same time we have had a variety complaints from neighbors in this specific area because of the nature of the size of the lots. And the majority of them were over lot coverage issues, okay? I'm not saying that you have to get a blessing from your neighbor, but anything that you could do to discuss with them. MR. MAURY: Makes it simpler. THE CHAIRMAN: Makes it simpler. And any elimination of lot -- any reduction of lot coverage would be greatly appreciated. We are 2020s20,_ 24 coming into the winter season. Certainly, I don't 282~s204 25 know if you are anticipating this construction at FREELANCE L.I., INC. 64 COURT ]REPORTERS 20:02:62 1 looked like we might be exceeding but that is ~0,0224s 2 certainly your determination, not ours. ~0:02:ss 3 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Homing is leaving 202022s, 4 for Fishers Island. 20:02:s~ 5 MR. MAURY: Enjoy. 20:03:00 6 MRS. MAURY: Have a pleasant trip. 2020~:0~ 7 THE CHAIRMAN: Is there some possibility 2020~200 8 that you could discuss amongst yourself as the 2020~:~0 9 couple, and come back with a plan that might give us 2~20~20~ 10 an edge on the 30 percent? 20:0~::~ 11 MR. MAURY: What type of edge would you 2020~,2!~ 12 look to require. THE CHAIRMAN: The edge I'm looking for 2020~22~ 14 is squaring off of the house, dropping that back a 2028~228 15 couple of feet and thereby eliminating any 202~:~0 16 upsetment from the Tisbo's while at the same time a0:022~ 17 reducing the lot coverage down a little bit. 20202:2~, 18 MR. MAURY: If the goal were to try to 2020~22~ 19 reduce lot coverage and there was a specific reason 2020~:~s 20 as to be less than 30, a number of 27, 28, whatever 2020~243 21 the number is, we would be willing to explore the 20:0~:~ 22 options of reducing deck size, potentially even the 2020~:~ 23 the shortening of the room, ;vhether you made it two 20202:s8 24 feet shorter or whatever, I personally don't see the 20:0~:ss 25 impact that that would have in terms of appeasing FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 17 65 20:aa::v 1 this time of the year. So, you know, we probably 2o:os:2:2 have a month or so or maybe two to play with. I'm 20:0s:2s 3 not saying hold it open that long, but at least it 2c:os:2a 4 would give you some breathing time to discuss what 2a:mr_5 you feel would be the best option for you. To 20,m336 reduce lot coverage, if you choose to take it off 20:0s:3~ ? the deck, bring it back to us. 2~:0s:4~ 8 Our coined question or phrase is either 20:05:44 9 you chop it or we chop it. One way or the other, 20:05:47 i0 okay? And I'd rather have you come back. You seem 20:05:53 11 to be very reasonable people and I think it would 20:0s:ss ~2 make sense that you. ~0:0s:s0 13 MR. MAURY: We can accommodate that. ~0,0~:~ 14 I have one comment I'd like to add in 20:a~:0z 15 regards to the side yard setback, it is for 4 feet 1 20:00:0s 16 inch. And that is because there is an angular 20:00:0.= 17 property at that point. That room, structure, with ~0:0~:~2 18 the exception of four feet, would never even have 20:00:~s 19 been an issue. You know, I would never want to do 2::c~:~a 20 something that would upset a neighborhood, the four 20:m2~ 21 feet should not have been done, and it would not _~0:s:s 22 have been an issue. 20:00:27 23 THE CHAIRMAN: It can all be taken care 20:06:2.0 24 of by proper screening, and so forth and so on. 20:0e~,2 25 Sometimes neighbors doesn't understand that. You FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 67 1 of this board is that they do not want to see -- set 2 any kind of precedents that get out into anything 3 like high 20s. 4 MRS. TORTORA: Can I add something on 5 that? 6 When you have a very small lot like 7 this, and you're proposing what amounts to a big 8 house, big house, small lot. The side yard va,fiance 9 does become an issue because now you have a big 10 house that is eleven feet from the property line. 11 You do have space in the rear to put an 12 addition, where you would still maintain your 25 13 foot side yards. You have some leeway there. 14 MR. MAURY: I appreciate that 15 sentiment, but it doesn't fit. 16 MRS. TORTORA: The second thing is, I'm N personally not inclined to support an 11 foot 18 variance on this lot because of the proposed lot 19 coverage, and because of the size of the lot. 20 MRS. MAURY: I'm a little confused. 21 You just said an ll foot variance. 22 MRS. TORTORA: Eleven foot setback to 23 the side yard. 24 MRS. MAURY: I guess when we did the 2~ application, all we could go on was experience, and FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 20:06:35 20:06:39 2 20:06:41 3 20:06:44 20:06:~5 5 20:0~:~7 6 8 20:0~:5s 10 2o:o~:o~ 15 mov:os 16 20:07:12 17 20:0v:~ 19 20:0~:22 20 20:0v:20 22 20:07:31 2~ 20:0v:3~ 24 66 may choose to plant some green plants out there. MR. MAURY: I'm sure I can work that out with Michael. THE CHAIRMAN: This is the time, the enhanced time to do so. MR. MAURY: That is fair. THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Collins. MS. COLLINS: Mr. Chairman, I don't think this is unfair for me to say this. I think in fairness to the Maury's, that we should be a little more clear. I'm willing to be a little more clear about what kind of lot coverage is liable to be passed by this board. MRS. MAURY: We'd appreciate that. MS. COLLINS: We are not giving you a decision, in my experience, ~vhich is only a year, but we see these cases all the time, and once you get up to 23, 24 percent, the heels dig in on lot coverage. Down at Laughing Waters, you have small lots, you have lots of coverage -- you have lots of lot coverage, we had a case do~vn there, virtually across the street from you within the past year, where we dug in our heels. And the result was a considerably reduced coverage from what the property 25 owner had in mind. My sense is that the sentiment FREELANCE Li., INC. COURT REPORTERS 2Q:O~:O1 20,09:07 3 20:09:12 4 20:09:20 5 20:0s:23 6 20:09:22 7 20:09:26 20:09;28 9 2o:os:~4 11 2o:o~:5~ 12 2o~e4o 13 20,0~m 14 20:09:1i 15 20,e4~ !6 20:09:62 18 20:0~:57 20 20:10:!4 23 20:30:14 24 68 I know that the side of our house -- the opposite side from the Tisbo's -- borders on the Conway. If you look at the survey, is perfectly straight, and it is parallel, and it is 9.9 something. THE CHAIRMAN: Inches. MRS. MAURY: Our bedroom and bedroom/bathroom, ~vhich overlooks the deck of our neighbor's, ~vhich is probably nine feet or less to this six foot fence. I'm guessing that a previous owner of one or the other houses had to put that fence to appease someone. And I. MRS. TORTORA: Guess you're stating the very problem that we are trying to avoid in the future. MRS. MAURY: We looked at it -- MRS. TORTORA: The lot is small. They are narrow, and the code does require 25 feet in the side yards. THE CHAIRMAN: 10 and 15. MRS. TORTORA: You haven't gotten. On one side, you have 9.9. Let's call it 10. Probably supposed to be 10 but it came up 9.9. MRS. MAURY: It is only that short 20:10:14 25 amount, that four feet at one point of the room. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS ]8 20410414 1 2C:10416 2 20410420 3 20410423 4 20410425 5 20410426 6 20410429 7 20:!0:33 8 20:10:37 9 2o:~0,40 10 12 The rest of it is sort of a triangle, because it is 15.8 on one side. It narrows in because you know Minnehaha is a circle, and all the properties on one side become triangular. MRS. TORTORA: In order to do that, you're exceeding the lot coverage. In order to accomplish what you want to accomplish, you're doing two things: You're exceeding the lot coverage and 69 ~o:4~:s0 1 This is what the setbacks are for, to allow each lot 204~240.~ 2 to be independently maintained. Unto therrmelves. 204~240~ 3 There is a good reason for that. If I 2042~:~0 4 was thinking more that the sun porch would be the 204!~:0~ 5 end of the additions and the deck would not even 2c44~440 6 exist. If you guys can come up with something more =044244~ 7 scaled back. m2~,414 8 MRS. MAURY: You have seen a lot more you're exceeding the required setbacks. So I think ~vhat I'm saying, is in agreement with the chairman and Ms. Collins, that scale the plan down. MR. MAURY: May I ask a direct question, please. If we were understanding what you're 204:045~ 15 looking for now and what makes sense, if we were m4o:s? 16 able to help reduce the lot coverage but didn't 20:mss 17 affect the size of the additional room, that is the 2~:~14~0 18 more important portion to us, is that something more 204m0~ 19 acceptable, more feasible to you folks. 204m09 20 THE CHAIRMAN: According to Mrs. ~04~:~0 21 Tortora, 1 1 feet is not within her -- 20m:14 22 MR. MAURY: Have you had the opportunity 20,u:~s 23 to see the property? I know -- I'm not saying that 20m:~ 24 you all together to do that. 20411421 25 MRS. TORTORA: We've seen many FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 71 20c:,22 I properties in this area. 204~'_424 2 THE CHAIRMAN: We are pretty familiar ~041~420 3 with this property. 2~,i4427 4 MR. MAURY: Okay. 20:11:28 2~:!1:29 2C:1!:]2 20:ii:37 2~:i!:41 2042~44~ 10 2o:11:s 12 2~:12:0o 13 2o:moo !4 2o:~2:~2 16 2o:~2:~4 17 20412421 !8 20:12424 19 20412429 20 2o:~2:~: 21 2o:~2,~4 22 mm41 24 THE CHAIRMAN: I haven't made a determination about the 1 1 feet, to be honest with you. I'm not take any -- let's go on to Mr. D and see what he has to say. He has a great wisdom. MR. DINIZIO: I would tell you, I wrote down some of my ideas of this application. They come nowhere near what you people want. The reason for that is that lot coverage is just excessive. If anybody that knows me knows that I don't like to restrict people. More times than not, you know, I fight restrictions. But you do at some point in time, you do have to cut it off. The -- 1 1 foot setback, or the 15 foot that should be on that side, is there for a reason. You know, safety, to allow you to get a truck back there, or whatever. You said you may have problems with your cesspools. Well, some day you're going to have to get a bulldozer, or a backhoe, or something, in there, and a couple of precast cesspools, and you're going to need a way to do that without going on your neighbor's property. 70 20414408 20414409 2 20414413 20414416 20414419 20414424 6 20414430 7 20414432 20414434 9 204mo~ 1! mi4442 12 m4444, 14 2~:~:~ 15 20:ms0 16 2o:mss 17 20410402 18 ~04m04 19 20415406 20 20415:07 21 2o:mo~ 22 20415410 23 2o:~mz 24 20,15,1A 25 MR. DINIZIO: At the cost of the extra 10 percent which you have inside your house, you know what ! mean, people put decks on and stayed within the 20 percent. I live on a small lot myself, 100 by 100. I know the things I'd like to have, but I absolutely know the things I'm not going to get, and I'm on the zoning board. MR. MAURY: That is fair. MR. DINIZIO: You need to see if you can scale it back. If you accept altemate relief from us, we'll scale it back. MR. MAURY: We can be creative. We can be creative. I'd prefer to give. MR. DINIZIO: Go ask the cesspool guy -- find out how they can maintain it. MR. MAURY: I can move slate if i have to. It is not the end of the world. MR. MAURY: I take the opportunity to be creative ourselves before something from the board. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I think that is ~vhere we are at this point. We'll recess this without a date. MR. MAURY: May I interject, you had recommended that I speak to Michael. I'll do so. FREELANCE L.I., INC. 72 COURT REPORTERS FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 204~04~s 9 of this than we have. If you can suggest sorn.e way 204~04~.~ 10 of ground cover to us, as an alternative to a deck, 20:~0423 il that would be at least affordabe, if we have to do 20,13,24 12 any type of maintenance. This is the first house 2041342~ 13 that I have ever been in with a septic system. I 204!3,32 !4 don't know if we're talking once a year, or every 12 .~04434~4 15 years, or when you're unlucky. What is the 20:1~:~v 16 feasibility tha~ I'm going to have to go in and pull 24m440 17 something up. tf we were talking about putting down 204~:4~ 18 brick or slate, and that doesn't enter into -- the 2~':~44~ 19 variance or this area, then consider the deck gone. 20,~_~:0! 20 That is not living space. When you drive by in the 2044_~:s.~ 21 afternoon, this guy has a nice deck. His almost 20m:sv 22 looks like an in-ground pool, he has a fence around 2~4444~ 23 it. It looks like it is in character with the 2044440~ 24 neighborhood. So I assumed decking was the way to 2c:x440~ 25 go. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 19 201!m6 I When I do speak to him, should we or should we not 201is120 2 come to some amicable resolution, how do I follow 20:15:24 3 20:15:27 4 25:L5:29 5 20:i5:39 7 20115129 8 20:15:39 9 2om:4o10 2o:m~o11 2o:1~:~4 !2 2o:13:4v 13 2o:13:32 14 17 19 21 22 23 24 that process with you folks. THE CHAIRMAN: He can write a letter. MR. MAURY: Come the next opportunity to be with you folks. MR. TORTORA: At the next hearing if you'd like to come. MR. MAURY: If it is necessary. THE CHAIRMAN: There are times when there is not unanimity between neighbors. You said you didn't really have a chance to discuss it with him. We are saying maybe now is the time to do so. MR. MAURY: Take one less consideration off your plate. MR. DINIZIO: I don't think it would make a difference one way or the other in my mind. If they want to come and give us some reasons but... MR. MAURY: I understand. THE CHAIRMAN: Pragmatically, though,I think you understand where we are coming from at this point. It is a whole field, all the way to one. You reduce the size to the best of your ability. 73 20:I9:00 20:19:02 2 20:19:04 20:19:064 20:19:095 20:!9:136 20:19:!77 20:19:218 2~:1h25 9 2o:m2~ 10 2o:mza 11 20:I9:27 14 2011~14~ 15 20119152 16 2011~:ss 17 2012010~ 19 2012010~ 20 ~01~010~ 21 :0120110 22 201201!3 23 20:201:9 24 75 your name for the record, please. MR. SCHEMBRh Yes, it is Anthony Schembri. THE CHAIRMAN: We notice that during the construction of this dwelling that you found that -- or through I guess a foundation survey, that the house was closer than 50 feet to the property line, which was on the side road? MR. SCHEMBRI: Correct, right. THE CHAIRMAN: Up to the front yard. The board was wondering when you actually found this out? MR. SCHEMBRI: We actually found it out when, when John the building inspector had gone and did a foundation location, and that is when he brought it to our attention, that it was a little closer. We were under the assumption, because we had the subdivision on Main Road, up at Homestead, ~vhich had 40 feet side yards, we were under the assumption that it was also 40 foot. I think we are like three and a half feet, four feet too close to the side yard. So that is what had happened. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll go with Mrs. 25 To answer your question, I would suggest FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 20:16:22 20:16:26 2 20:16:30 20:16:344 20:16:305 20:1~:~26 20:!6:~ 7 20:!6:478 20:18:529 20:!~:56l0 2~1!v10~11 2o::v:o412 stopping the room, I would suggest coming back so much and then just cutting it, and then go back preferrably to the glass sliding doors, or whatever the case might be. That will take a little less side area. And certainly any elimination of the deck would be the best that you could 'do. There may be a possibility of doing something else creatively. You know, from the engineers point of view, but I have not made a determination about it. We thank you and see what develops before you leave. Is there anybody else that would like to speak in favor of the application? Is there anybody 74 20:20:24 25 Tortora? FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 2fi:20125 1 20:25:27 2 20:2D:33 ~ 20:20:37 4 201201d 5 2012C145 6 20:20:49 7 20:20:52 8 20:~v:0s t4 who wold like to speak against? 2011~:0~0 15 Hearing no further comment, I make a 2c:~v111 16 motion recessing this without a date. 2o::7::~ 17 MRS. TORTORA: Second. 2011~11~ !8 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor. ~0:lV:ls 19 (All ayes) MRS. TORTORA: It may be only three or four feet but I guess -- I'm having a rough time with these as-built foundations with builders that are experienced in this town, with builders that regularly do business with the town, that I personally assume would know the code. MR. SCHEMBRh Uh-hum. MRS. TORTORA: So I'm not happy that 2011~122 20 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. 20:msx 21 Next appeal is on behalf of Schembri Homes. Number 2011~14~ 22 4642, for a proposed front yard setback as built 201m00 23 foundation-wise. 2o:18:n 24 (Conferring) 2011013~ 25 THE CHAIRMAN: Can ~ve ask you to state FREELANCE L.I., INC. 20120104 9 you as a builder located this in an area that does 20121101 10 not meet the code requirements, and I really fail to 201m04 !! understand how this could happen. 2012110~ !2 MR. SCHEMBRI: Well, what had happened, 20121100 13 the Gonzalez's wanted a bigger garage, that is 201n112 14 exactly what happened. The Gonzalez's wanted a 20:~!:10 !5 bigger garage with a little more work space, a 2012m~ 16 little workbench in the garage. And the plan was ~,01;:122 17 actually four feet smaller, but they had requested 20121120 18 while we were getting ready to actually dig the 2012112~ 19 hole, Kenny Dickerson was digging the hole, she had 2~122m 20 asked me if we could make the garage four feet 201211~ 21 bigger. So I said I didn't think there was a 2012m.~ 22 problem with that. Instead of holding up the 2~121142 23 project, we made the decision to make the garage 20121140 24 four feet bigger. m21140 25 That is what it is, the garage is four 76 COURT REPORTERS FREELANCE L.L, INC. COURT REPORTERS 20 20:2i:48 20:21:51 20:2!:543 2G:2!:574 20:22:005 20:221026 20:22:C67 20:22:108 20:22:129 20:22:0510 2G:22:1911 2o:22:n 12 20:2::24 14 20::2::? 15 2o:m2~16 20222250 17 2o22m418 20:22:46 19 2o:22:~6 20 2o:22:~6 21 20:22:4? 22 20:22:50 23 20;22252 24 77 feet bigger, not anything with the house, just the garage. That is what had happened, that is what the four feet had come into play, bigger. It wasn't something that was planned. It was just something that had happened. In this business, if when you go to do something, you are better off doing it when the homeowner is together and you work things out and that is what happened, we dumped the foundation. If it was wood, we'd tear it down. When you have concrete, it is a little bit more involved. MRS. TORTORA: I'ln not sure I understand something. When you applied for a building permit. MR. SCHEMBRh The building permit. MRS. TORTORA: Was the building permit issued for the garage, four feet larger. MR. SCHEMBRI: The building permit was issued for the house at a certain size. And then when the homeowner was reviewing the plan, they had made a decision. They said can you make the garage a little bit bigger. It looks a little small for us, we want to have a place to put a bench. That is when we decided to make it even a little bit bigger. 20:23:55 20:23:57 2 20:24:00 20:24:03 4 20224;07 20224211 6 20:24:15 7 20:24:20 20:24:23 9 2o:24:2~ lO 20:24:36 13 20:24:40 14 20:24:45 15 20:24:40 16 2o:24:4~ 17 2o22¢:s~ 19 2o2242s~ 20 2o22s:oo 2! 2o22s:o2 22 2o22s:o6 23 me the process of what goes to the building departtnent, what the building department looks at and what the builer believes he has to live with, has a lot of looseness in it. The building permit application says they are going to build a 3 1 by 60 house, ~vhich is obviously an envelope. And a 3 1 by 60 house on that lot, easily meets the setback requirements unless it were located in a very funny way. We have a survey, submitted by Schembri, whether it is the one that went to the building department or not, I don't know. It shows basically the septic system, dated August 15, and that shows an exact 50 foot setback with a 65 by 30 house, which is not quite 31 by 60. What actually got built, was different. I don't know who drops the ball but it upsets me every bit as much as it upsets Mrs. Tortora. I think it is a mess. MRS. TORTORA: You're a professional builder, I'll say it again. You know if the town building department issues a building permit for a certain size structure, that is ~vhat you are supposed to follow. If your clients don't like it, 20,22,s 25 MRS. TORTORA: FREELANCE L.I., INC. 20:22:59 20:23:03 2 20:23:04 3 20:23:0~ 4 20:23:08 20:23:11 6 20223211 7 20223213 20223215 9 20:23:28 10 20:23:19 11 20:23:20 12 20:23:22 13 70:23:23 14 20:23:25 ~6 20:23:28 ~7 20:23:3O 18 20,2~:~4 19 20:23:42 20 20:23:~4 21 2o:23:~o 22 2o:sm~ 23 202232s~ 24 In other words, you have COURT REPORTERS a building permit for a garage that is four feet smaller than this? MR. SCHEMBRI: The building permit for the whole house, not just the garage, not a separate garage. It is one whole. MRS. TORTORA: In other words you didn't submit any plan to the building department when you got your building permit. MR. MAURY: Yes, there's plans. MRS. TORTORA: Do we have a copy of the MS. KOWALSKh No, they didn't furnish plans. one. MRS. TORTORA: Can you give us a copy of the plan, that is number one. What I'm understanding is you got a building permit based on certain plans, then your clients decided to enlarge the garage by four feet. And in doing so, you're no longer in -- four feet -- came four feet too close to the road. MR. SHCEMBRh To the side yard, yes. MRS. TORTORA: I don't have any other questions. MS. COLLINS: I'm bothered by the same 79 25 thing. You've heard me on this before. It seems to FREELANCE L.L, INC. COURT REPORTERS 1 to the zoning board of appeals and say Oh, gee, it 2 is only four feet. There are a lot of people in this tovm 4 that follow the rules. They go by the rules, they take a lot of time to go by the roles. They come before this board and the board is generally sympathetic. Frankly, I'm not sympathetic to your case at all. I think you flouted the laws and the town. THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. D? MR. DINIZIO: No, I have no comment. THE CHAIRMAN: We need Peter to call us tomorrow regarding the affidavit. He may have to submit another one. There is an incorrect date, but that is the extent of it. MRS. TORTORA: The survey submitted to the building department, that was the copy of the building permit and alt the information that. THE CHAIRMAN: Can you give us the information that you have in your file, photocopy it, fax it to us or send it to us tomorrow,. MR. SCHEMBRI: All right. THE CHAIRMAN: Can you state your name for the record. MRS. GONZALEZ: I'm Mrs. Gonzalez we FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 78 20225218 20225221 2g225222 2g:25:N 20:25:26 5 E225230 8 E22523{ ~ 2o2252~5 10 2o:25m 11 20:25:54 13 :0:26:02 15 2022620~ 16 2o:mos 17 =o2262~o 19 2o2262~ 21 2o:mzo 22 2o22622c 23 :0:26:20 24 20:26:23 25 80 2022ms 25 they can amend the building permit. Then you come FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 20:20:22 20:26027 2 20026031 3 20:26:33 4 20:26:37 20:26:39 6 20:2~:~2 20:2~:~6 8 20:26:~9 20:26:53 lO 20:27:02 13 81 are the homeowners. You know, we had it planned, we didn't really look at the garage, our cars don't fit in the garage the way it was. We needed to have it just a little bit longer. It is on a side road, we really didn't think that it was a problem. Obviously Schembri% didn't really realize that there was a 10 foot difference. They thought they had the room to play and obviously they didn't and it is hard-- it set us back. We were ready to frame. This is over a month. I guess we'd appreciate it if, since it is only three and a half feet, and it is not bordering somebody else's property, there is not another house behind us or in 20:29:23 ! 2002h27 2 2C02h30 20:29033 20:29:37 20:29:40 6 20:29:47 8 20:29:49 9 2o02~:s4 n 2o03o0oi 12 2o:;o0o2 13 as you know on October 15. Since that date, several things. One of them is to reverse the map. The map we originally submitted is only slightly different from the map that you now have, but ~vhat we did, is we moved back the parking a little bit on the east end of the property, or the east side, so that it is 50 foot buffer. We moved the tennis court back a little bit, 100 feet from the street. That is in accordance with the code requkements. But basically the golf course, which is approximately 158 acres out of the 220 acres, remains the same. As you know, in addition to submitting the map, we also met with the chairman, and Mr. front of us, that if you just let the variance go 28:2~022 15 through. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. MRS. GONZALEZ: Appreciate it. Thank 2002,02 16 2c022¢4 17 20022:1s 18 you. 20027016 !9 THE CHAIRMAN: Any questions of this 20,2~:~, 20 lady, ladies and gentlemen? 20:2,:20 21 No. Okay, thank you. 20:27:22 22 If you just give us ~vhat you have now, 2002~:s 23 we'd appreciate it. Ask Peter to give us a call 2002~02s 24 tomorrow and so we can take the affidavit situation 200270~0 25 and we thank you for coming in. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 83 82 ~0:2::~3 1 MR. SCHEMBRI: Thank you very much. z0:20:~ 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody else that would 20=270~ 3 like to speak in favor of the application? Anybody 20=270~ 4 like to speak against the application? 20:27:~ 5 Seeing no hands, I11 make a motion 20,27:40 6 closing the hearing, reserving decision in the 20:2~:4~ 7 matter. 20:27:44 ~ MR. DINIZIO: Second. ~0:2~:4~ 9 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor? 10 (All ayes) 20:2~:s7 11 THE CHAIRMAN: The next hearing is in 2002~00~ ~2 behalf of Laurel Links, Appeal No. 4624SE. And 2c02s00~ 13 4625. 20:28:48 14 I believe that this is the most current ~,002~:sl 15 plan, which has the most recent date of -- we 20020s~ 16 received it on December 8th. 20:2~:0~ 17 MR. CUDDY: It should read December 3. 2002~,0~ 18 THE CHAIRMAN: State your name for the 2002~:0~ D record, sir. 20,2~:0~ 20 MR. CUDDY: Charles Cuddy, attorney for :002~,10 2! the applicant. I have a cold so my voice is worse ~002~01-'. 22 than usual, which is really terrible. 20:2~:17 23 THE CHAIRMAN: Does that mean you're 2002~::~ 24 going to speak less? MR. CUDDY: Probably, yes. We were here FREELANCE L.I., INC. 20:30:48 20:30:50 20:30:54 20001000 20031003 20031006 20031012 20031016 20031020 20:m2~ !0 ~o:~102~ 11 2o:~1:2~ 12 20:3200 16 2~:m~v 18 20,220sc 19 ~00K052 20 2o:m~? 22 2c:o2:o~ 23 2~ 2o:}2:o( 2~ COURT REPORTERS 1 We have here, as we did last time, a 2 number of people, some of them will speak .Some of 3 them are here for questions. But Dr. Abrams, the 4 environraental consultant is here, and Howard Young, 5 from the firm of Young & Young, design engineers, 6 are here. Kelly Moran, the golf course architect, ? is prepared to speak. And we have a number of the 8 principals of the company, including Messrs. 9 Fischel and Saland. I said last time that we would address some of the questions that were asked at the end of the meeting. There principally were four areas that were addressed. One of them had to do with the 50 foot buffer between the golf course and the houses. That we really didn't say. What we said was there would be a 50 foot buffer between the line of the property and any improvements that were there, which included the berm improvement, and the structural improvements, which include the parking field. That we have done, we have increased that distance. There obviously is going to be some rough area along the golf course. The golf course is going to back onto every end line, every berm line. More pressing was the concern everybody FREELANCE L.I., INC. 84 COURT REPORTERS 20:;0000 14 Dinizio, at the site, to address some of the 200~020 15 questions regarding the Third and Fourth Street 200300n 16 drainage at the east end of the property. At that 20:~0m 17 time, also Town Engineer Richter was there, and also 200;0:~ 18 Mr. Spiro from the planning board, was there. 20:~0:20 !9 In addition to that, since the last 200~0027 20 hearing, we have submitted within the last day, the 200~00~0 21 part three of the EAF which is some 30 pages plus 200~00~s 22 appendices, and we submitted that to the planning 200~00~a 23 board. That is the lead agency, so we should be in 2003c042 24 a position now to finalize, we hope, the .,00~:044 25 environmental analysis by the town's consultant. FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 22 20232220 1 seemed to have with Peconic Bay Boulevard, with the 20232213 2 access. That access we have, indicated, and I'll 20232215 3 put it on the record again, solely two things: One, 2025210 4 the superintendent% house is located at that end of 2025222~ 5 the golf course. Two, it is an emergency access. 2023222~ 6 'We plan to have it, with the exception of the 2123222.: 7 driveway to the superintendent's house as a grass 23:32:3:. 8 area. It is not to be used by anybody going in or 20:32:35 9 20:32:20 !0 2o:m4~ 11 2o:~22~ 12 2o:~22~? !3 20:52:3:14 2o232207 16 20:33:05 19 2o1531o~ 20 2o13m2 21 20133114 22 2OlO~:~7 23 out. It is to be used by emergency vehicles. Once you look at the course, I think it is a smart thing to have that as an emergency access. But for whoever has created the phantom problem along Peconic Bay Boulevard, we say on the record it is not our intention, we will not put trucks or cars there. It is a golf course. Literally that would ruin the golf course. We don't intend to use it during construction, we don't intend to use it after construction, for ingress and egress. There were other questions that came up. I think Mr. Moran eventually will address the question that Mr. Karlin has, which has to do with the area next to his home. But before that, I would like Howard Young to address the questions of 85 20:35:00 20:33:03 2 20:35:05 2023520~ 4 2123521i 5 20225217 6 20135110 7 20133121 20:35:25 20:35:32 Il 20:35:52 ~5 2o2502~ 16 2o:ms~ 17 2o:mo3 19 20960o? 20 oc:m12 22 2o12e:~ 23 87 I have absolutely no concern right now based upon the fact that you are going to continue the plan as you so designed it. Thank you. MR. YOUNG: The only other comment was that there has been some question about groundwater pollution, and the direction of the flow of groundwater. I believe that the groundwater in this area is flowing in the south or south easterly direction. But we feel that the development here with the golf course and with 29 homes, is quite limited. And in the amount of, in particular, nitrates that would be added to the groundwater as opposed to -- from this project, as opposed to a subdivision build-out, or as opposed to farmland, t think maybe somebody else has done the study on that. Certainly the health department would permit in this area, 400 homes. Their density is in Southold, with public water, is two units per acre. So you could certainly get something in the neighborhood of 400 homes here. We are asking for 29 on a golf course. I think you have or will have the pest management, with all the new technologies 21233220 24 run-off on Third and Fourth Street, and also some 21253223 2~ question that arose as to the sewer effluent that FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 20:33:20 1 would come from the homes and from the golf 200~305~ 2 clubhouse~ 2o:~32~2 3 Howard, could you speak now. 86 202m20 24 that I'm not very familiar with, I think that nobody 20:35:25 25 wants to waste fertilizer anymore, which is getting FREELANCE LI., iNC. COURT REPORTERS expensive, I'm sure if Dr. Abrams could talk to that. If you have any particular questions, I MR. YOUNG: Good evening, Howard Young. (Mr. Young was sworn by the Chairman) MR. YOUNG: Howard Young, from Riverhead, New York, firm of Young & Young. At the request of Mr. Cuddy today, Greg and I did a calculation with regard to the storm water run-off that is presently directed from our 20:34:00 11 20234212 12 2o:5~:12 13 2a:3eu 14 20234210 15 2o:3e2z 16 m3412~ 17 2o:m2o 18 2o:m~2 19 2o13e~? 20 farm land on to Third and Fourth Street to the east end. We have detennined, based on the tentative plans that Mr. Moran has designed, that we would store over eight inches of rainfall before anything went over, out that roadway, where we looked in the gully there. And certainly could store, we have various depressions, that were created by Kelly, and a pond, which will practically eliminate all mn-off except in those storms that would exceed 8 inches. THE CHAIRMAN: After meeting with you, 21136128 1 2~1361]1 2 20:36:32 3 think we could answer those. THE CHAIRMAN: Any questions of Mr. Young. MR. DINIZIO: I just have a question about the emergency exit way? THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. DINIZIO: As I understand it, that wasn't a design by you, that was asked to be put in there, is that required? MR. YOUNG: Southold's code on subdivisions is thay they should have two accesses. So we thought it was a good idea to have an access out there. We didn't intend to pave it, or anything like that. Butjust thought it was one way of solving the problem. We like the idea of having the homes developed within the interior of the golf course and didn't want a paved street to go through 201m3~ 21 Mr. Young, I am fully confident that -- I'm not an 2013~:~2 22 engineer, of course, but I am fully confident that 20,34:45 2~ you have addressed that problem. I do appreciate 2i:~:~0 24 that meeting and I think it was extremely pragmatic 20:ms2 25 on everybody's part that was present. FREELANCE LI., INC. 20:36:30 2023623~ 2023~239 2023f244 20:36:&~ 10 2I:2~:4¢ 12 200m5I 13 20:36:54 ~4 2o:m~: !5 20:5::0o 16 oo13~::: 20 COURT REPORTERS 20:nv:is 21 from one end to the other, because that would not 2001v:00 22 only be expensive, but it would not be appropriate. 2005~:a 25 But we did want to recognize that the reason that I 200~v02~' 24 understood the reason that that was in Soutlhold's 21037..27 25 code, the two accesses, was in case one access was 88 FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 23 blocked. The only time I see this driveway being utilized, other than for the greenskeeper -- the super's home is, during some kind of emergency, 20:37:41 20:37:40 20:]7:53 8 20:t7:5S 9 20m:0~ 11 20:~0:0~ 12 2~:38:i~ 16 20:3s:22 17 20:38:25 18 20:m~2 20 2o:m3~ 21 2o:mB~ 22 20:BNZ 24 where the main entrance was blocked and they had a fire or ambulance or something like that. MR. DINIZIO: If it wasn't required. MR. YOUNG: We would put a knock away gate or anything that the fire department or the town would approve. We could certainly gate it off in such a way that nobody can -- like you say as a practical matter, as Mr. Cuddy spoke, we don't want cars coming in there, we don't want vehicles coming in there on a daily basis. So I think the traffic is going to be the greens superintendent and his wife and his family, whatever he happened to have. We thought that that was a great site for it, because it sort of watches out for that part of the property from vandals or from things like that. MR. DINIZIO: If it wasn't required, you probably wouldn't even have had it on the map, I'm assuming. MR. YOUNG: That is correct. Except it makes good sense. But certainly if you tell us or the community tells us -- I don't see that we 89 20:40:12 1 20:40:16 2 20:40:i8 3 2o=4o=23 4 20:40:26 5 20:&0:30 6 20:40:33 7 20:~0:30 8 20:40:38 9 2N0m 11 2o:047 12 2o:es13 ~ 22 24 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, I would like Mr. Moran to address the question that Mr. Karlin has. I know Mr. Karlin is here. We have about 34 acres of open space. Two and a half to three acres surround Mr. Karlin's house, which is at the north end of this property at the railroad area. He is concerned somewhat about the maintenance of those areas next to hira. I think Mr. Moran can talk about that. yOU. 91 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, sir, how are MR. MORAN: Good evening, fine, thank yOU. THE CHAIRMAN: You are still under oath. State your name for the record. MR. MORAN: I felt a little different when I left here last year. Kelly Moran, golf course architect for the applicant. With regard to Mr. Karlin's and the open space adjacent to his property, we have no specific plans for that property other than to maintain it. And his concern for the vegetation growing there could easily be resolved by the superintendent keeping it mowed. We have provided 25 particularly need it. t think it is a good safety FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 20:38:49 2 20:38:56 4 20:39:01 6 20:39:~4 7 20:~9:C5 20:29:11 9 2~:m~5 10 ~o:m2v 12 20:30:29 13 2o:39m 14 20:ms 15 20:38:36 16 20:39:47 17 2o:~N? 19 20:39:47 20 20:s~:s 22 2o:~o:o~ 23 20:40:0s 24 for the people in this community that are going to live there. So I wouldn't want to be the one that denied them that service. MR. DINIZIO: That really is the only other location on your property that meets another road besides Del Mar Drive. MR. YOUNG: We have the railroad there and there is a crossing. I think east of Mr. Karlin's house, there is a railroad crossing, but I don't think that is an to the golf course. MR. DINIZIO: Thank you, Howard. MR. CUDDY: Just to add one other thing that I think I may have overlooked. There is a small piece of property that is on the south side of the road that really is not part of xvhat we are doing, we have indicated to the planning board that we would be willing to give that over to a civic association of the town. So that is not part of our property. I think somebody did raise a question as to what we are doing with that, I understand. We'll be able to be willing to do whatever the planning board or zoning board wants to do with it. It is a small piece, and it is not part of the plan. We have no interest in it. We are going to gift it 2o:~o:oo 25 over to whatever group is interested. FREELANCE L.I., INC. 25 ample room for the maintenace of the golf course FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 9O COURT REPORTERS 20:11:27 20:C:31 20:4233 20:41:39 20:41:41 20:4!:46 6 20:4!:51 7 2C:4h54 8 2C:4h50 9 20:~2:02 lO 20:42:03 11 2o:~2:0~ 12 20:~2:c? 13 2N2:0~14 20:~2::2 15 2002:27 16 20:~2:2U 17 2o:02~18 2o:02~19 2o:42:35 20 20:42:3~ 21 2o:42:42 22 m42:4423 =0:42:4v 24 20:42:47 25 FREELANCE L.I., INC. 92 within our maintenance site, that is on our side of the railroad from Mr. Karlin's property. The only use that I have discussed with the owner is the possibility the superintendent might want to go over into that property and put in a 10 thousand square foot grass meshe~, to be able to cut sod and provide for the maintenance of the greens on the golf course, based on my experience with other projects, how superintendents set up maintenance groumts and other needs that they have. THE CHAIRMAN: I realize that you don't have control of this piece of property at this time other than through engineering. Is it your understanding, Mr. Moran, that you could possibly be starting this project sometime in the spring? So therefore this piece of property would then be under your control as being the golf course engineer, and Mr. Karlin would then not be faced with the problems that have existed adjacent to his house? MR. SCHEMBRh I think what yoWre talking about is cutting the rye grass. THE CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. We'll get Mr. Hansen's name in one second. MR. MORAN: I think he's probably best COURT REPORTERS 24 20:42:49 20:42:52 2 20:42:55 3 20:42:58 20:43:02 20:43:04 7 20:43:07 20:43:10 2o:43:32 10 ~c:e2~ 13 93 able to address it. It is my understanding that the applicant would like to begin as soon as possible. We have done a number of construction schedules, the most recent one beginning in the late summer, early fall. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We may go through one more summer of what existed on the property, is ~vhat the issue is. Mr. Karlin has called me personally and that is the reason why I'm asking that question. So there could be a planting on this property, one more planting, basically, okay. I have been told to tell you again, 20:43:33 ! 20:45:33 2 20:45:33 3 2):45:41 ~ 20:45:44 5 20:45:497 2C:45:52~ 20:45:54~ me:~ 10 12 fire department vehicular access, or any other time, otherwise it is to be chained off. This should be the culmination of this hearing tonight. We ask anybody in the specific area that would like to speak. Mr. Karlin, how are you tonight, sir? State your name for the record because we have a court reporter tonight. MR. KARLIN: Frank Karlin, Laurel. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen of the board, i appreciate, Mr. Chairman, your having an interest in my requests. I'm not against the golf course. Live 2N~:24 14 also, that I thank you for being there for the hour 2aes~ 15 that we had had. It was helpful, you're a ~N3:.~2 16 conscientious individual and we do appreciate that 2c:~}:~s N inspection. 20:4~:~ 1~ Does anyone on the board have a question ~0:43:3) 19 of Mr. Moran? 20:43:a 20 We thank you, sir. 20:4~:4s 21 MR. CUDDY: If I may, I'd like to renew 20:43:53 22 our request for approval for two things: One is 20:es4 23 for the sign which is there, and I indicated why =o:40:s~ 24 that had happened. And, two, for a special ~:~4:c2 25 exception. We don't think it will in any way be FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 94 95 96 2C:44:~5 1 adverse to the neighborhood. 20:4<; 2 I have heard from people that live 20:4~::0 3 adjoining this parcel. I know Mr. McGill has land 20..-'.e2.= 4 next to it on the east end, and he's happy that the ~o:-,.-':zv $ golf course is going to be there. Other people in 20..~4:20 6 that area who I know, not necessarily next door but 20:-:e2~ 7 within the next block, have indicated to me they ~0:~4:2v 8 feel it is an appropriate use for the site and they 20:ez~ 9 are pleased to see it there. I hope the board sees 2c:e.,4 10 it the same way and approves the application. 2c:~4:~ 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have anybody else 20:44:3.0 12 to speak on this application. =0:4~:4:13 MR. CUDDY: I don't think so. 2c:44:42 14 THE CHAIRMAN: That is it? Okay. The 20:44:4s 15 only thing I wanted to add to that, Mr. Cuddy, is 20:44:4~ 16 the fact that in granting a special exception from 20:44:s2 N this board, when it does occur, we are concerned 2~,44,~ ~8 with the access, based upon the people who have ~0:-,.ea~ 19 shown that concern from Peconic Bay Boulevard. 20:e03 20 Having lived down there some seven or eight years in 20:e07 21 the mid-70s, I can understand their concern. 2~:a:2 22 So that based upon our inspection, and 20:4s:ls 23 what Mr. Young had said, that we certainly would ~0:4s:~.0 24 want to have a gate past the grounds keeper's house ~0:e02 25 to be used only for emergency access, either through FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 20:47:02 20;47:06 20:47:09 20;47:12 20:47:16 20:4~,09 20:47:23 20147:24 20:47:30 20:47:32 20,47,38 2o:~v:~3 13 20:47:46 14 2o:4v,5~ 17 1 not by my house, thank God. This is my reason about 2 being concerned, about this, plus seeing the 3 property maintained, which I hope and I'm sure it 4 will be. 5 But it is kind of a tricky situation, g here when this property will be taken over. THE CHAIRMAN: That is why I asked the 8 question, Frank. 9 MR. KARLIN: I hear after, in the spring. ~0 1 hear after the summer. I don't have no control l! over that. But if the farmer farms that land one 12 more year, they won't get in there until the mid -- until after the middle of October, because that is xvhen he finished digging his potatoes. Like I said, I know exactly ~vhat he does. So that won't be occupied. In my opinion, if the farmer farms it one more year, he won't be out of there until the middle 20:e0~ 18 of October. 20:e0s 19 So, if that is the case, then he'll be ~o:4s:~s 20 responsible one more time to cut the rye down, which 20:eh 21 he cuts down in August, which is two-thirds .of the 2~:e3~ 22 summer over. But he does cut it down. 20:e2~ 23 What I notice this year, he replanted 20:.e2~ 24 new rye there so that will come up pretty strong 20:48:2~ 25 again. But that is my concern of how this will be. FREELANCE LI., INC. COURT REPORTERS 14 and let live, I said it at the last meeting. But !~ like Mr. Cuddy said, 1 am concerned about ~hat piece 16 of property alongside of me. It is a beautiful 17 piece of property. Not alone that, is the problem I 18 had to put up with for ahnost 44 years living there ~9 with that rye. It is only 30 feet from my window, 20 house window. On the bedroom side. I'm allergic to 21 rye and it grows to four or five feet high in the 22 midsummer, and it is only 30 feet from my garage. 23 It is also a very dangerous fire hazard. 24 If somebody drives along and throws a cigarette out, 25 the rye goes up like gasoline. I've seen it happen, FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS 25 2092:3! 1 I'm sure that these gentlemen, who own that 201.~3:32 2 property, will live up to their commitments and 2014513~ 3 maintain the property. But for this year, the 20..:014v 4 little problem of who will be taking over the 20..~5..-,.~ 5 property and if the farmer does not farm one more 20105..00 6 year, and these gentlemen happen to take the 25145105 7 property over, some guarantee that somebody will cut 20:48:83 8 that rye down around the same time it was cut down 201~5100 9 before, at least get it out of my way. That is all 201.'..0130 10 1 want. Thank you very much. 2014.o112 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Karlin. ~014~0114 12 That brings up a very interesting point. 2014,::, 13 I'm glad Mr. Karlin brought it up. Maybe Mr. Moran, 1014~123 14 you can bring this up. We have Mr. Moran and Mr. 201~122 15 Saland, they are both sitting next to each other. I 97 20:51120 20151130 20151130 201>1130 20151130 20151130 2015h32 20:52:35 2D:52:36 25:5~:3o 10 2015h42 ~ 2o:5::40 12 23:51:32 ~4 THE CHAIRMAN: That rye grass will not exist once you have actually taken over the property. MR. SALAND: That is correct. THE CHAIRMAN: So it was really a two-faced question. It was the question for Mr. Karlin's consideration, but also the question in reference to the construction situation, when you do commence construction of it, being in the fall winter months? Thank you. Any questions, ladies and gentlemen, of these gentlemen? Before we let it out for the general public? No? Anybody else like to speak in favor of ~014~132 16 2014~134 17 20:49:35 19 25:4~:4o 20 2o:~5:~5 22 didn't want mean to point to you. That is all right. If you do go through another year of farming there and you start this project in October of 1999, will there be provision taken for ground cover prevention, so as not to lose any of this soil over the winter. I realize that you are going to move as little basically fill as possible on this site. But would you be taking that into 25:s~:0~ 16 this application? 25101105 17 Anybody like to speak against the ~0102103 !~ application or have a specific concern about the 20102:03 19 application? 20:521cs 20 Bearing that in mind, I just want to add 201821!2 21 for the record that we did have an extensive review 20152112 22 of this property for the people that were at that 20:52:23 23 inspection, and the concerns of the Bray Avenue 2c152127 24 situation were completely taken care of by the 20:52:30 25 construction of this pond area. My main concern was FREELANCE L.I., INC. 2015~102 1 20150:33 3 201801!2 4 201801i5 ~ 20:50:17 6 20:50:21 7 20:00:24 8 20:50:30 9 20:50:33 10 2o:so:2e 11 ~o:0o:55 !2 20:5o:42 !3 20:50:42 ~5 20:50:42 16 20:ms:17 COURT REPORTERS consideration through the winter of 1999, and the year 2000? MR. MORAN: I think quite a bit of the area will be under active construction, if we are beginning construction in the fall and in preparation for beginning to the lay sod in March, potentially, and then seeding in May, I think any of the areas that are not being affected that may be opened could be handled with a nurse crop of some sort that would not affect us ~vhen we go into planting in May, in addition to all the other mitigation, weather control, we would have to do before we commence construction. THE CHAIRMAN: What would be the first thing you would do, build the pond areas first. MR. MORAN: Yes, probably start in the pond area, or in the front, that would be the 20:58:5.4 18 irrigation pond. So we work away from that. So we 2015115~ 19 have our irrigation source in place first. 20:50102 20 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Saland, did you have 2010'_..05 21 anything you wanted to add to Mr. Karlin? 20..az:05 22 MR. SALAND: Yes, even if we are not in 20:a~135 23 control of the property, we'll ask Mr. Pollack to 2010m4 24 help him out on cutting with the rye grass. We 98 20:52:35 20152:40 2 201521~3 20:52:47 4 20t52151 5 20:52:54 6 22:52157 7 20153101 20:53:02 9 28:53:48 12 20:5~:20 13 20:03:2] 14 20:53:27 15 2o:~3:~2 20 2o:s3:o~ 2! 2o:s4:o2 23 FREELANCE L.I., INC. 99 that for the record, a bermer has existed on the site of the Bray Avenue areas of this property and that at certain times these berms have blown out, based upon the freezing and thawing that occurs during the winter months. Because of Mr. Moran and because of the firm of Young & Young and their design features of this particular project, they have alleviated this problem in my mind. I applaud them for doing it in this particular manner. As for the project as a whole, I have looked significantly at this project. This piece of property is a piece of property that I know quite well. I grew up in this area. And I presently' own a home a home on Bray Avenue, which is not near the area of great concern, which I just mentioned. So it is therefore in my opinion that I will deem this property to be of concern to rne in reference to a decision, but certainly of much less concem in reference to environmental hazards and of specific problems that may exist on this particular piece of property. Bearing that in mind, I'll make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until 100 25 sympathize with him and we'll try to help him. 22104102 25 sometime in the near future. Are you. FREELANCE L.I.; INC. COURT REPORTERS FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS COURT REPORTERS 26 101 1 MR. DINIZIO: Second. 2 THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor. 3 (All ayes) THE CHAIRMAN: We thank you all for 5 coming in and we bid you a good holiday season. We 6 are going to take a short recess here. The court ? reporter is going to close and then we will be ~ breaking. 9 (Time noted: 8:56'p.m.) 10 -o0o- 12 13 14 15 t6 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS CERTIFICATE 2 STATE OF NEW YORK ) COUN~ OF SUFFOLK ) ~4 iV 18 JENNIFER MAUL 24 102 102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFICATE STATE OF NEW YORK COUNTY OF SUFFOLK I, JENNIFER MAUE, a Registered Professional Reporter, do hereby certify that the foregoing Matter, taken at the time and place aforesaid, is a true and correct transcription of my shorthand notes. I further certify that I am neither counsel for nor related to any party to said action, nor in any wise interested in the result or outcome thereof. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 23d day of January, 1999. JENNIFER MAUE FREELANCE L.I., INC. COURT REPORTERS RECEIVED FILED BY TI~IB sOUTPIOLD TOl~riq C~ December 10, 1998 Southold Town Board of Appeals (Prepared by Lucy Farre11 from Tape Recordings) 9:05 P.M. - Appl. No. 4635 - DR. CYNTHIA H. ICKES & COLLETTE CLAYTON This is a request for a Variance under Article IliA, Section 100-30A.3 based upon the Building Inspector's August 28, 1998 Notice of Disapproval for a Building Permit, to place an accessory storage shed in an area other than the rear yard at 160 West Street and 531 Madison Avenue, Greenport, Parcel; 1000-42-1-3.3. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the survey dated September 27, 1982 indicating the placement of the house, the driveway and the garage. The nature of this application is for a utility shed, approximately 3 feet from Madison Avenue on the west side of Madison Avenue and the east side of the property and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. How do you do this evening? Could you state your name for the record? MS. ICKES: Cynthia Ickes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How are you? MS. ICKES: Fine. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Could you tell us why you want to place it there? I realize there is- a depression on the property, but that may be one of the reasons? MS. ICKES: There is a circle garden in the center of the area behind the house and there's permanent shrubbery on both sides. So, the placement here was in a place that has the least amount of shrubbery and the least amount to clear away. CHAIRMAN G~EHRINGER: And what would, how big would this utility shed be in height? Pag? 2 -Hearing Tra,~scripts December 10, 1998-Board of Appeals MS. ICKES: In height, a 9 feet at the highest. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And will it contain any utility, electricity, water? MS. ICKES: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, OK, we'll start with Mrs. Tortora. Any questions of the applicant? MEMBER TORTORA: No, I don't have any. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK. Ms. Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: You submitted for our file, this is, I just want to get the record clear. You submitted for our file some statements from neighbors, that they had no objection to the project and two of them I can identify, a Ruroede who is across to the west of you and King who is on 6th Street. One of the signatures is so elegant that there is no way you can tell what the person's name is. It looks like it might be Robert Bonna, but, that is (laughing) - MS. ICKES: No, that is Rob Brown. MS. COLLINS: Oh, I was close. And, where is, where, I just want to get a sense of where he and Frances Cratch are? MS. ICKES: OK, a, Frances Cratch is across Madison Avenue to the north. The house is a little bit to the east and Rob Brown is across west street to the south and three houses over. MS. COLLINS: Oh, OK. MS. ICKES: Roughly. MS. COLLINS: Yes, from my point of view the non opposition of the two neighbors who will look directly at it was of considerable greater interest but, I just wondered who these other two folks were. One other question. Your survey calls it a shed but, the building in the back of the property kind of looks like a garage. It has a door going out on the street. What is that used for? MS. ICKES: That's also, right now being used as a shed. MS. COLLINS: Do you plan to keep it? MS. ICKES: Yes. MS. COLLINS: OK, that's all I have. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: Nothing. Page 3 -Hearing Tra~scripts December 10, 1998-Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Nothing? MEMBER DINIZIO: Nope. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, while you're standing there, is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of the application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Anything you'd like to add? MS. ICKES: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We need your green cards. Hearing no further comment, I make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. Thank you. MS. COLLINS. Second. Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 4~ -Hearing Tra**=cripts DecSmbe~ 10, 1998-Board of Appeals 9:09 P.M. - Appl. No. 4637 - JAMES & LAURIE CARNEY Variance is requested under Article III, Section 100-33, based upon the Building Inspector's September 17, 1998 Notice of Disapproval of a Building Permit Application, to construct accessory garage in an area other than the rear yard. Heathulie Avenue, Fishers Island; Parcel 1000-9-6-2 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is an application for a storage shed in the front yard on Fishers Island. Our Fishers Island Member had left for the evening because he had taken the boat back prior to the or the last boat to Fishers Island., I'm sorry, the Orient Ferry had offered. However, he wanted us to be aware of the fact, that the building is being requested to be built at the height of 22 feet and that the building is I guess, 15 by, I've seen 15, it's 15 feet in depth -. MEMBER COLLINS: 26 x 22. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes, 26 x 22 and that appears to be 40 feet from the property line. Is that correct? Yes, from the front yard, OK. MEMBER TORTORA: They gave us photos also. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. They gave us a significant amount of photos for the Board to review. The purpose of the house is, the garage is to match the house in its architecture, according to what Mr. Homing had sent. SECRETARY KOWALSKI: There's someone here to represent them. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, there is? I apologize. SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes, it's Mary Lou is here. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, Mary Lou, I apologize sincerely. MS. MARY LOU FOLTS, ESQ.: Quite alright. I was just letting you address all the issues and I would just get up and reiterate before you. Mary Lou Folts of Lark & Folts. We're the attorneys for James and Laurie Carney. And, as you said it's a 22 x 26 foot garage on Heathulie Road, Avenue and Fishers Island and it is proposed 22 feet high. They're asking for the variance to place it in the sideyard because of the typography which in straight areas to the rear yard approximately 90 feet. Heathulie Avenue drops off about 20 feet, so you have quite a ditch to go into a garage. The proposed location on the side yard is at a fairly level area off the street. So, it would be the safest for ingress and egress to the garage. Attaching the garage to the house is not a feasible alternative because of the detrimental effect it would have on this type of architectural house. The garage is going to, l~roposed to be Page 5 -Hearing Trm. ocripts DecSmber 10, 1998-Board of Appeals put 40 feet setback from Heathulie Avenue, which is the same setback as the house so that it be in conformity with each other from the street. The roof pitch of the garage again you said, Mr. Goehringer to keep it in architectural harmony with the house, it's a pitched roof as you can see from the pictures. To do anything else kind of takes away from the architectural harmony of the area. And, as you also pointed out it's twofold. Its, variance request is to place it in the side yard area, but also to have it allow 22 feet instead of to allow 18 feet to an accessory structure in height. The request to the variance is up the 22 feet is so that it match the house roof. It would also allow storage space over the garage and not much else when you've got a pitch like this. And basically on their behalf I respectfully request that you grant the variance for the application to the side yard and for the height. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Did they discuss with you the type of utility they want on this garage, other than electricity? MS. FOLTS: They did not discuss that. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: electricity. OK, so it would be restricting it to MS. FOLTS: That's fine. I know they didn't plan to do anything with it other than the storage and I wouldn't imagine what else they would want to put in. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And the normal storage restriction that we have, you know. The one thing I did want to share with you is that this Board does not necessarily ever grant in excess of the 18 feet for height. However, the height is measured as a mean, OK. So, if we granted an 18 you're still going to get your 22. Just so you're aware of that. Assuming that this was the roof on the side, OK, a line is drawn directly across the center. This is the 18; the ridge is the 9~2. So, just so you're aware of that situation. MS. FOLTS: You're saying to the 18 foot - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is mid-roof. MS. FOLTS: Is mid-roof which would comply - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. MS. FOLTS: With the (more than one person talking) for height. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It may be a foot or two difference, but, it's not going to be that significant that it's going to change the overall architectural design of the house, the garage. MS. FOLTS: They're just trying to keep it in, in the kind of house if, it were a plastic house. Page 6 -Hearing Tra,~scripts Dedember 10, 1998-Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right, that is not our determination, That is the determination of the Building Department to the State Construction Code. OK. Mr. Dinizio, any questions of this nice lady? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, no questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: No, the only thing I had on my mind is what you just covered that I suspected that they did not have a height problem. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: The only question I had is that you, I want to know if it wasn't possible to stay within the 20 foot setback envelope, instead of 15 on the side there? MS. FOLTS: I think that again has to do with the topo which was there, the builder's recommendation of where it is the most level area off Heathulie Avenue. (Members reviewing drawings together. ) MS. FOLTS: I think they were also looking to keep, there's an existing driveway that you can see on the survey. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: any idea? Who created the envelope? Do you have MS. FOLTS: I don't know. them. Chandler & Palmer, I assume, did it for CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: envelope. I mean I don't think it's a subdivision MS. FOLTS: No, no, I think this was just Chandler & Palmer saying this is the area based on SECRETARY KOWALSKI: 15 is the Code. MS. TORTORA: I was just curious because of this word envelope. SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes, I don't think it has any variable. We'll discuss that, we'll kick that around. We thank you so very much. Anybody else like to speak in favor? Anybody like to speak against? Seeing no hands I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER TORTORA: Second. Page 7 -Hearing Tra~Scripts December 10, 1998-Board of Appeals 9:18 P.M. - Appl. No. 4593 - ZARKO SVATOVIC (Continued from 10/15/98). Variance under Article XXIV, Section 100-244B (ret. 100-232A/corner lots) as to insufficient rear yard for proposed dwelling at 12355 New Suffolk Avenue, Cutchogue, 1000-116-2-5. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is a recessed hearing from a prior meeting in October and we asked the applicant if there is something he'd like to add? How are you tonight Sir? We apologize for spelling your name incorrectly on the legal notice. MR. SVATOVIC: You did, I didn't notice. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes, we put an L in where there should have been a V and we apologize for that. MR. SVATOVIC: Alright, at this point I don't have anything new to say. I think we'll just keep things as they are. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: the way you had applied? There's no change in the house? Just MR. SVATOVIC: Right. I would like to apply the same way. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, thank you Sir. Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Mr. Trugiia how are you tonight Sir? Thank you for coming. Did you indeed end up in the city today and - MR. TRUGLIA: No, I actually was quite worried about this and cancelled the deposition a while ago so I was free the whole day. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the opportunity to speak. I have some concerns and therefore I would just like to point out that when we bought our house 17 years ago. First of all, my name is, Dunewood Trugiia for the record and I am the property owner to the north of Mr. Svatovic's lot on Short Road in Cutchogue and when we bought our home 17 years ago we knew it was a small lot. It was 100 x 150. Most of the lots in that immediate neighborhood are 100 x 150. At that time, we relied upon the Zoning Ordinance to protect our house and lot. We hope it will protect us today as it did then. Also, I'd like to point out it protects Mr. & Mrs. Svatovic from what we might choose to do just as it should protect me from what Mr. & Mrs. Svatovic might otherwise want to do. Our lot is 100 x 150, a third of an acre and in my humble opinion a smaller lot needs more of the protection of the Zoning Law into a far greater degree than a larger lot if our lot looks like air space if privacy is to avail the protection awarded recorded by the law in the first place. To recover from the open lot adjoining ours is somewhat minimal. And, I have some photographs which I'd like to submit as an exhibit. There's really very little Pag,e 8 -Hearing Tra~,scripts December 10, 1998-Board of Appeals between the proposed building and our deck. That is our sensitive side of the house. We have a lot of use on the deck and actually we were surprised at the application. We were never approached, no-one called us or spoke to us or discussed this with us or said anything about it. So, we were a little bit surprised when we got the notice of appeal. But, in any event having said that, all the points I would like to make and I'm sure that this is a point that has been made before, you will notice, but, I think it bears repeating. The threshold should be high for anything but at the minimize variation in the rear yard or any other, setback. And, I submit that 23% is not a minor variation particularly when it affects our deck and the enjoyment we have for the use of our deck. Turning to Mr. & Mrs. Svatovie's application, I was at the last hearing and to my best recollection I don't believe any evidence was presented of any genuine or even an apparent hardship. The reason for the requests seems more to put the cart before the horse. It seems more esthetic than anything else in my opinion and it almost states a question that it may appear even prima faeie to be insufficient as a matter of law, not to mention just plain common sense. In other words, the reason on the application, at least the one that I have, is the lot is too small to satisfy all the setbacks. Well, is that reason? I leave that hanging as a rhetorical question for you all. But, I do want to welcome my new neighbors. I never met them. But, I want to welcome them into the neighborhood and I want to say to them and to the Board, that they are not without (changing tape). It seems to me that there are many unexplored options for reeonfiguring the house to meet the requirements without unduly burdening anyone by the Svatovies the neighbors or us. Just to give you an example, in our own neighborhood most lots on the block where we are, are 150 x 100. Speaking of my house, the Truglia house, the Gillen house, the Shelby house, the Riley house, the Villecki house and I believe Mrs. Hallick's house even., all seem to have the proper setbacks. I'm unaware that the footprints of those dwellings in anyway infringe or reduce the requirements of the setbacks. That's six examples right on the same Block, number 1. Number 2, not that I take any prize in draftsman. Actually the only thing I'm good at is drawing wavy lines. I start with trying to draw straight ones and you know where it goes from there. I, myself sketched a few other alternatives that I'm sure someone who has the talent and the expertise to do that, would be able to satisfy you. The point there I don't believe they've looked for another alternative that would satisfy their needs and satisfy our legitimate concerns also. Finally, by allowing the increase in the setback of 23%. Well, in my humble opinion that unfairly singles me out, that's more than owner to lose whatever like privacy and air spaces I've said thai I would otherwise be entitled to if the Board is of a mind to do that, I sincerely hope that they would consider this carefully, considering my concerns. My hope was that they would say, lets move it toward New Suffolk Avenue. Lets let the entire Town of Southold share the burden rather than Mr. Truglia. I thank you very much for the opportunity to be heard tonight. Page 9 -Hearing TranScripts December 10, 1998-Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Anybody else like to speak of either concern or against this application? Anything in rebuttal, Mr. Svatovic? MR. SVATOVIC: Maybe I should answer all of their concerns. I see a, I see that there a building and building a nicer house rather than not as nice house or I see that there's a joint interest apart me and my neighbors. So, I, I wouldn't completely disregard that reason for asking instead of grieving completely to disregard the amount of your questions as a reason for Maybe it is illegal but, that's I don't know how, how, this stands as far as legality goes, but, that's, that's to me it's a, it's a concern also. Since I could have actually, since this is a corner lot, which was not mentioned. It's not a just a 150 x 100 foot lot. It's a corner lot so it has a more stringent requirements on it than the lot that is not a corner lot I believe. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's Right. MR. SVATOVIC: Right? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's correct. MR. SVATOVIC: So, I'm hurt that the because the lot is So, the little compensation that you keep towards a, towards one of the sides, I didn't think that would be such a big infringement on a, especially when you consider that I could have chosen the other side to be because actually if I switch the sides I believe it's my decision, I could have gone up to 15 feet to Mr. Truglia because if I switch, if I decided this is where the setback rather than the other setback, so, I could have actually legally come 15 feet because a, Mr. Truglia, and I'm really just now much further than that. So, I don't see how, you know, he won't even have a reason to complain about it in this case. I don't see how you know that effects him. As far as, you know, trying to build some house and do the things that my neighbors won't actually agree about. Well, I'll do my best to satisfy. I'm not out there to cause you know, cause a commotion and getting in trouble with my neighbors. I will try to satisfy them. So, I will, I'm putting to the Board again, I state my request as is and if you do not grant that I will appreciate any amount of space. You suggested that you might set up some minimal and I will accept that minimal and once you set up the ruling I will accept that as such or I will adjust my plans to fit with those rulings. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Very good. MR. SVATOVIC: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Sir. Hearing no further comment I'll make a motion closing hearing reserving decision until later. MR. TRUGLIA: I would just like to just submit these photographs. Pag.e 10 -Hearing Transcripts December 10, 1998-Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. My voice is quickly waning away. MR. TRUGLIA: I apologize they're not stapled. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No problem. Thank you. a resolution ladies and gentlemen. MEMBER COLLINS: Second. Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Oh, yes, surely, please Mr. Trugiia. I offer that as P~ge 11 -Hearing Tr~.~scripts December 10, 1998-Board of Appeals 9:29 P.M. - Appl. No. 4641 - MARY LOU WICKHAM Owner, requesting approval of a proposed Bed & Breakfast in accordance with Article III, Section 100-31B(14) of the Zoning Code, for the renting of not more than three rooms for lodging, and serving of breakfast to not more than six casual and transient roomers, subordinate and incidental to the principal single-family dwelling use of the owner as resident of 1535 New Suffolk Rd., Cutchogue; 1000-109-7-10.3. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the survey indicating the house in its position, the access to the Suffolk Community Road and we had a grand tour of this very beautiful dwelling in our inspection and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. I think you have gotten my voice just about when it's about ready to quit Ms. Wickham. It's such a pleasure again to have you here and we thank you very much for the tour. It was very, very, just enlightening. What would you like to tell us? MS. WICKHAM: I would like to tell you that my name is Mary Lou Wickham. That I hope you will approve my application here this evening. When my husband and I bought that property about 22 years ago, as you and some people here in the room even may be familiar with that house at that time that it was in implorable condition. We had done a lot of work on it and I would have to say from almost the very beginning it was a hope, a dream, that perhaps some day it would be a Bed & Breakfast because it is so admirably suited to it and it is such a beautiful home that I wish I would share it. I think it's very well suited for the purpose that we would like to use it. The parking is very good. The drive is very good. The house is laid out very well. Are there any questions that I could answer for you? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The parking plan itself were you going to submit something to us? Oh, and we need some green cards. Do we need green cards? Yes, good. MS. WICKHAM: Yes, I have green cards for you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Wonderful. MS. WICKHAM: OK. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. MS. WICKHAM: And, I think this probably shows a little bit, it is the same plan that you have. I have one for each of you if you'd like to see it. It shows a little bit better how the drive and the parking would - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: shed areas? Would you be parking adjacent to the P'agp 12 -Hearing Tra~scripts December 10, 1998-Board of Appeals MS. WICKHAM: CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: MS. WICKHAM: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Adjacent to that two car garage that's in the back. In the back? OK. So, approximately more than 40,000 is where the, is where the number 40,000 in reference to - MS. WICKHAM: No, over, over here, it says - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, right up in there? Oh, OK, good MS. WICKHAM: That our lot is north. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Parking space, oh, I'm sorry. MS. WICKHAM: Right, that is not a building, that's a believe it or not, a parking lot. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh good, great, great. MEMBER TORTORA: Poor guy. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, well, that's what happens when you just a - MEMBER TORTORA: You're getting tired here. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes, I guess I am. OK, and a, there is no, there's no change? It's strictly going to stay with the two bedrooms that you had showed us, right? MS. WICKHAM: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Any further questions Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: No, it's a beautiful home, it's a beautiful place, significant parking plan. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins? MEMBER COLLINS: No questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: None. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: While you're standing there is there anybody else would like to speak for? MR. KELLY: It's different being on this side for once. My name is Tim Kelly. My wife Mona and I own the house at 1650 New Suffolk Road which is across the street and just to the south of this l~age 13 -Hearing Transcripts~01~/~/~, Deeember 10, 1998-Board of Appeals property. You've all been there. You've seen it, it's absolutely gorgeous. I've told them I get to look at your house, you unfortunately have to look at mine. They have done incredible work in this house which again makes me green with envy. I think this would be a great use for the house. They're wonderful neighbors. They've done great things for the property. I hope you vote yes, thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Anybody else like to speak. Hearing no further comment I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER TORTORA: Second. Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. End of hearing.