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TRANSCRIPT OF ZBA HEARINGS
HELD July 23, 1998
1 Appl. No. 4579-EDWARD & AUDREY CIELATKA
5 Appl. NO. 4581-JOSEPH LEBKUECHER
5 Appl. NO. 4583-BRETT & MARIA MELLINGER
8 Appl. NO. 4585-ISKENDER EREY & ANGELICA BENGOLEA
17 Appl. No. 4586-LISA McELROY
27 Appl. NO. 4588-MICHAEL PISACANO
30 Appl. NO. 4544-MARTIN ROSEN (Owners:Booker & ano)
DRAFT
Transcript of Public Hearings
July 23, 1998
Southold Town Board of Appeals
(Prepared by Lucy Farrell from Tape Recordings)
6:40 P.M. - Appl. No. 4579 - EDWARD & AUDREY CIELATKA
This is a request for a Special Exception under the Zoning
Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-31B-13 to establish Accessory
Apartment Use in conjunction with residency of the owner, all in the
principal building of the owner-applicants. Location of Property:
260 Cedar Road (at intersection with Summit Road), Southold, N.Y.;
1000-78-9-29 (Bayside Terrace).
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the survey indicating the
placement of the house which is directly in the center of the lot
facing Summit Road. The Board has inspected the premises, we are
aware of what exists there and I have a copy of the Suffolk County
Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area and
we'd like to ask the Cielatkas if they would like to say something.
Would you like to use the mike and we could ask you a couple of
questions, either one. For the record this is Mr. Cielatka.
MR. CIELATKA: I'm Edward Cielatka.
the apartment size.
I got the figures here and
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, great, do you want to give that to us?
MR. CIELATKA: Yes. 600 sq.ft, living space and the house living
space is 1220.
MEMBER TORTORA: Say that again. I'm sorry I didn't hear you.
The accessory apartment is going to be how much?
MR. CIELATKA: 600 sq. ft. as it measures right now.
MEMBER TORTORA: And the house is?
MR. CIELATKA: 1220.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI:
where you live in would be 1220.
No, you mean your apartment
Page 2 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MEMBER TORTORA: Where you live is 12207
MR. CIELATKA: Yes. That'll give me a total of 1820 and that will
leave me the 32.9% for the apartment and they say 40%. We need 40%.
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, so it's just under 40%?
MR. CIELATKA: · Yes, we save 2 points.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright.
MEMBER TORTORA: 32.9?
MR. CIELATKA: Right.
MR. CHAIRMAN: While your standing there lets just briefly
research what we've done so far. We went down and inspected,, we
asked you to get an evaluation from an engineer.
MR. CIELATKA: I did.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You hired Mr. Fischetti. Mr. Fischetti gave you a
whole-laundry list of things that would have to be done.
Right, me and Mr. Fischetti went over it, right.
Alright, hopefully you haven't done any of them
MR. CIELATKA:
MR. CHAIRMAN:
yet.
MR. CIELATKA:
MR. CHAIRMAN:
MR. CIELATKA:
Not yet.
That's good, OK.
I'm waiting to make sure I'll get a Building Permit
for the windows and stuff.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right, oK. Now remember if we give
you a favorable decision, it's condition upon your getting the
Building Permit from the Building Department for the entire project.
MR. CIELATKA: OK.
MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, the entire project.
MR. CIELATKA: Right, OK.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We'll start with Mr. DINIZIO. Any questions of
Mr. & Mrs. Cielatka?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No questions.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Ms. Collins?
MEMBER COLLINS: No, I have no questions.
Page 3 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MR. CIELATKA:
MR. CHAIRMAN:
MR. CIELATKA:
can put there.
MR. CHAIRMAN:
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTORA: The parking spaces?
MR. CIELATKA: I've got enough there for two, three cars.
MEMBER TORTORA: I saw your plan where you have on the
parking on the ( ). How many cars can you park in the garage?
MR. CIELATKA: One car garage.
MEMBER TORTORA: So you have one in the garage and then three
in the driveway, is that right?
I can put 5 in the driveway.
He has like a circular driveway off to the one side.
Yes, a circular driveway. You have five cars you
That's where the tenant parks anyway is in the
circular because I parked in front of her the day we were down
there.
MR. CIELATKA: .Right, that's right.
MEMBER TORTORA: The question I asked, is there sufficient room
so that the cars can get out without having to back out into Summit
Road? That's my question.
MR. CIELATKA: Yes, it's a circular driveway. It's a circular
driveway so that they can pull in and go right around out the
opposite side.
MEMBER TORTORA:
questions.
OK.
I think you have answered all of my
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Horning?
MEMBER HORNING: I have no questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir. Is there anybody else
would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to
speak against the application? Hearing no further questions, I'll
make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later.
MEMBER TORTORA: Second.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We hope to get to you tonight. If we
don't we will get to you on the 5th of August. We thank you for
complying with everything we've requested and we hope that we will
do favorably.
Page 4 - Hearing Tru,lscripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MR. CIELATKA: Thank you.
Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution.
Page 5 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
6:48 P.M. - Appl. No. 4581 - JOSEPH LEBKUECHER - Applicant
does not comply w/CH. 58. Canceled hearing.
6:49 P.M. - Apr1. No. 4583 - BRETT AND MARIA MELLINGER
This is a request for a Variance under Article III, Sectio~
100-30A.3, based upon the Building Inspector's May 21, 1998 Notice
of Disapproval for a Building Permit to construct deck addition and
attaching the existing accessory pergola with its existing side yard
setback (at less than 15 ft. necessary for a principal building).
Location of property is 440 Midland Parkway, Southold;
1000-88-2-12.1.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the survey indicating
the pergola approximately 5 feet from the property line and which is
attached to a proposed deck which would be attached to the house
and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. The survey issued mentioned is
a May 2, 1986 survey and these are pinned in arrears on that
survey. Would someone like to be heard?
MR. MELLINGER: Good evening I'm Brett Mellinger.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do Sir?
MR. MELLINGER: Thank you for inviting me to attend. We bought
the property last winter and it had the existing pergola which is
really close to the house and we had wanted to put in a deck. I
could show you if your interested the way it looks where the deck
would go.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MR. MELLINGER: This is the property right here showing the
pergola and the structure. We didn't know of course when we
bought the property that it was too close to our neighbor's property
according to the Code. So we also have a drawing of the deck, it's
not very protrusive of the deck, it doesn't actually join the house
with the pergola. But, we want to build a nice deck because we
entertain a lot and want to take advantage of the open space. The
deck will go away from all our neighbors into our sideyard. So,
we're hoping to get a variance so that we can build a deck.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What is your opinion of the definition of
the word pergola?
MR. MELLINGER: I understand, that the word pergola is a deck
that has sought of a covering sought of trellis to it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK.
MR. MELLINGER:
with a trellis.
That's basically how we can describe it, a deek
Page 6 - Hearing Tr~scripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'm not trying to get cute. My concern
is that it remain that way assuming the Board has the interest in
going and approving this application.
MR. MELLINGER: Oh, we like the a just, my wife loves the pergola
the way it is. We want to keep it the way it looks so ( ) structure
in the deck to find -
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Because if it was an enclosed building -
BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: It wouldn't be a pergola.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It wouldn't be a pergola, no, but it
would be a you know, it would be relatively close to your neighbor
and I think that that would totally change the entire philosophy of
what we have before us.
MR. MELLINGER: I agree. It's not our intention to even consider
it as a enclosed structure. It's perfect the way it is. I just want
the deck to join the two together, open up the space a little bit
more.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
way. Mr. Homing?
It's a beautiful piece of property by the
MEMBER HORNING: Please. Can you clarify on the survey, lots 1
and 2, or formally 11 and 127 Are they legally merged?
MR. MELLINGER: We are a, we've had Mr. A1 Fickeissen from our
building represent us on a lot of matters here. We submitted that
we will merge the two properties together as single property.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Do you want to explain that Mr.
Fickeissen?
MR. FICKEISSEN: Yes, a letter was given to the assessors
requesting that the lots be merged.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So as a matter of this application you
don't have any objection to our saying that that is going to be the
case?
MR. FICKEISSEN: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. For the record again, that was Mr.
A1 Fickeissen. Thank you Sir. Anything else Mr. Homing?
MEMBER HORNING: All set.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTORA: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins?
Page 7 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MEMBER COLLINS: Just to pursue I had the same question in mind
about the lots having been merged. Am I reading the survey, I just
want confirmation that I'm reading your survey drawing correctly.
With the lots merged about 90% of the width of that pergola is
backing up against your own property that is now part of all one lot
and there's only a small tip of the pergola that in fact is a mere 5
feet away from a neighbor's property?
MR. MELLINGER: That's the way I interpret it too, yes.
MEMBER COLLINS:
with the -
Yes, OK, I mean that's how I read the survey
MR. MELLINGER: Yes, it's not that much that we're actually
embodying this property.
MEMBER COLLINS: Right, OK.
MR. MELLINGER: Can I make one more statement?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MR. MELLINGER: When we sent out the notices as required as
certified we did not get a green return receipt from one individual,
Mr. Martin and Mr. Hero, residents of Forest Hills. We didn't get a
return receipt on that individual.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK.
MEMBER COLLINS: Oh, I wanted to thank you for putting stakes
out showing where the deck would go.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio?
MEMBER DINIZIO: I have nothing, no.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You have no questions? OK, we thank
you Sir, we'll see what else develops at the hearing. Oh, by the
way, the deck will remain totally unroofed?
MR. MELLINGER: That's correct, Sir.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, thank you. Is there anyone else in
the audience would like to speak in favor of this application?
Anybody like to speak against the application? Seeing no hands, I'll
make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later.
MEMBER TORTORA: Second.
Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution.
Page 8 - Hearing Tr~.ascripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I should point out to the publie that we
do haVe a block of time which is quickly approaching which is going
to be from approximately 7:00 'o'clock or so to about 7:30, so we may
be making some decisions at that time. We don't know. Those two
hearings have been postPoned~
6:58 p.M. - Appl. No. 4585 - ISKENDER EREY AND ANGELICA
B ENGOLEA
This is a request based upon the Building Inspectorts May 21, 1998
Notice of Disapproval for a Variance under Article XXIII, Section
100-239.4B for a deck addition and alteration which will be located
within 75 feet of a bulkhead adjacent to a tidal water body
(Gardiners Bay), at 680 South Lane, East Marion; 1000-38-6-7. The
subject property is nonconforming in size and is located in the R-40
Low Density Residential Zone District.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have one letter of objection. I have a
survey dated 1996, Ro. derick VanTuyl showing 15,680 sq. ft. The
nature of the application is an extension of the deek to almost the
upper most retaining wall on the westerly side of the property and I
have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. How are you tonight Sir? Can
you state your name for the record?
MR. LACROZE: Yes, my name is Eduardo Laeroze.
for the owner and the architect.
I am the agent
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
for us.
Great, Would you spell your last name
MR. LACROZE: Lacroze.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
tell us?
Thank you Sir.
What would you like to
MR. LACROZE: Basically I kind of start from the possibility of an
objection. Since we filed this plan we learned of a adjacent
neighbor, Mr. O'Neill, in the sense that he, you know, that he'
might not be too happy with the layout, that the deck was being
intended in the sense that it might obstruct some of his side lines
and taking that into account we've taken the liberty and I don't
know if this is you know, appropriate procedure or not, but we've
taken the liberty to produce an alternative plan so as to address
their concerns and try to resolve them. The need for the deck,
that would be the first step that we'd like to address is, has
basically to do with the use of the raise of the property, the rather
awkward configuration of the wedging of the front lawn between the
retaining wall and the house that narrows down to a 12 foot on one
end and against the O'Neills on the eastern most side as a give or
take 19 foot width from the house to a retaining wall. There is an
existing deck with its a proper CO at the Town and so on that
doesn't really fulfill any proper use. It's basically a stepping
Page -9 - Hearing Tr~scripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
stone from the house down to the only stretch of land that they
could basically use as outdoors. The reason to propose a deck
extension is to make that a usable portion of outdoors and having to
( ) outdoor window space in which they could actually fulfill some
kind of usage there. The stretch of lawn are between the house
and the retaining wall has a drop in elevation that would make any
attempt to use a non grade use require some kind of grading
leveling and so on that would introduce a more substantial or
permanent alteration of the actual site, plus a, in our view a sort
of a collision with a character of the house .and the construction
itself. There's a drop in grade of about between 24 and 30 inches
between the living grade of the house, the actual floor elevation and
the most adjacent grounds which makes any use of a exterior space
at grade level cumbersome in the sense that it' would always be a 30
inch grade a drop to deal with and that's where the deck came in
play as a more adequate way to transition that problem. The area
requested approximately 290 to 300 sq. ft. that basically doubles in
size the existing deck would actually allow to fulfill the flow
patches required plus they use for (), basically would be a couple
of recliners and an outdoor table for, you know, outdoor dining,
fresco dining situations.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Why would you opt to do that rather
than put a, rather just to cement slab or something in there? I mean
I understand that you have a floor away from the house to the
retaining wall but could that be just leveled and put a base cement
slab in which wouldn't -
MR. LACROZE: Well, we felt that there already is a deck there, the
shingle style of the house although it's not architecturally
relevant, it's fairly good view with the existing adjacent house.
There's a retaining timber wall plus the bulkhead which also are
grade timbers, there's an existing deck that's already tied into the
house and the introduction aid of a concrete structure we just felt
that it was more appropriate to have a floating structure on wood
piers and that would be the least a, put the least stress on any of
the existing structures. The bearing lines of the piers would be set
back from the timber retaining wall, the only vertical loads with no
natural loads into the retaining wall whatsoever. There would be no
need to ( ) of existing ground and the actual use of that
exterior area that they want to use which in many senses it's like an
outdoor dining area so on with a 30 inch drop from the kitchen and
the indoor living room and so on, it would become a constant hassle
of up and down steps whether it's frayed or breaks or whatever it
tis, posing some kind of an immediate hassle to the actual use of the
space. The floating, I hear a floating deck seems to be more
appropriate with almost a nautical sense of. the property itself. The
objection that was basically voiced to us, was that the projection of
the deck would encroached on the oblique natural side lines of the
neighbor from a basically from a corner window. What we prepared
it's a, I'll bring it up to your desk, we've prepared a sketch in
which you see the effective windows and the side lines that those
windows would be and effectively those two big trees are 24 about 20
inches in' circumference adjacent to a property line, there's an
page 10 - Hearing %..anscripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
existing of planting a hedge and stockade fence. There is an
opening allowing for natural or diagonal views of the side lines of
the neighbor over our property and effectively although the deck
would probably not be visible because it's a 42 inch drop from grade
to the deck and that would be taken care of by the hedging and the
planting that we're proposing. Upon review of the complaint we do
sort of grant that obviously if those people here, they would be
visible from the a -
MEMBER TORTORA:
here?
Where's the line of the O'Neill's house from
MR. LACROZE: The line from the O'Neill's house is on the site plan
here, you can see it, this is the existing Erey house, existing deck
( ) of the proposed deck, the retaining wall, the two trees and the
O'Neill's house that has an enclosed porch that projects beyond our
own building line and the site plan would basically mean that about
50% of the proposed extension would definitely be visible.
MEMBER TORTORA: So, right now, your existing deck extends out
further than the O'Neill's line of their house, the existing bulkhead?
MR. LACROZE: The existing deck basically lines, almost lines up,
it's .almost flushed with the front line of the O'Neill's house and
there are two trees that are basically somewhat proffer the view and
it would have to be a natural view over the fence into the neighbor's
lot.
MEMBER TORTORA: But, my point is, that right now the house,
the O'Neill's house is set further back from the bulkhead than your
existing step. Is that correct?
MR. LACROZE: The further back from the bulkhead. Yes, in the
sense that the bulkhead is in a, is in a slant, knowing the sense
that if you look at them as -
MEMBER TORTORA: Actual distance.
MR. LACROZE: As aligned with the building line. If the houses
were built on a diagonal following the lot line, then yes, so that's
basically is the situation. This stake indicates the corner of the
proposed deck and this would be the triangle of 40-502 that would
become visible with people on that site land obviously.
MEMBER TORTORA: This is the corner of the deck right?
MR. LACROZE: This is the corner of the proposed deck.
MEMBER TORTORA: Right where the water is?
MR. LACROZE: Right, right before the retaining wall.
retaining wall and there's a bulkhead.
There's a
Page 11 - Hearing Trdnscripts
JUly 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We're going to have to do two things
here. We're going to have to take a short recess. I want you to
leave that here in case anyone wants to look at it. Leave it right
in front on' the table here and anybody that has to close their
windows I suggest you do so prior to this storm that's coming. I
just want to mention to the audience that this building is equipped
with its own generating system. There's about a 10 to 20 second
delay. So, if we do lose lights just stay where you are and the
generator will kick in and everything will start all .over again, OK.
Is there anything else you want to mention?
MR. LACROZE: Well I would say while you know, this is presenting
this in the spirit of addressing the objection, this would be the
alternative in which instead of projecting the deck land wise we'd be
sifting it off to the side and then it would be totally off the view
of the side lines and this address is the new state location and the
view of the effeeted windows would be basically blocked by the trees
and the deck would be set back. That would also allows us to
further set baek the deck for an equivalent floor area. With this
alternative we'd be also saying in ( ) we'd have a cross flow over
the deck so it's even more important that we don't shrink the area
that we requested, 300 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
from the retaining wall?
How far is that deck, the proposed deck
MR. LACROZE: It's 2 foot from the retaining wall, but, that's the
cantilever and then there's 3 foot 6, or 4 feet, 3 foot 6 at this
point
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: To the piers?
MR. LACROZE: And cantilever to the actual bearing line of the
piers and the girder.
MEMBER TORTORA:
alternate plan?
And the distance of the bulkhead and the
MR. LACROZE: The addition to the bulkhead on the alternate plan
would be, the original plan it was about 7 foot 6, so it would be 2
more feet.
MEMBER TORTORA: So it's about 9 feet.
MR. LACROZE: About 9 feet. Well, not from the water, -
MEMBER TORTORA: From the bulkhead.
MTR. LACROZE: From the bulkhead, yes because we're always
beyond 18 feet from the high water mark, from the water mark.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, so, we'll leave both of those
there. We'll take approximately a five minute recess. I need a
Page 12 - Hearing Transcripts
July 9.3, 1998 - Board of Appeals
motion on that, ladies and gentlemen.
favor?
I'm making a motion.
All in
BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
Hearing reopened.
MR. LACROZE: At the alternative plan that was basically ( ) at
eliminating the site line obstruction granted that neighbor standing
by the bulkhead and taking a lateral view directly into the
neighbor*s property would obviously see but that's I mean it's not
within the new site line is not within a natural, logical site points
from the property so that you know, I don't know if there's anyone
here from a, you .know representing Mr. O'Neill to you know, to
consider this if this would be amenable we haven't been able to run
it though them to a discuss it, -
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: To answer your question from the
Building Department's point of view, that is not the plan that you
initia]ly gave to the Building Department and that's where the
problem lies. I realize it all falls into the normal category of 75
feet, and I don't know, you know, if that portion alternate relief
because it's more substantial, it's not more substantial in reference
to the distance, but it's substantial.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I was wonder-
MR. LACROZE: The new proposal?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes.
MR. LACROZE: The square footage are the same as previous and
the distance to the bulkhead is -
MEMBER TORTORA: A foot and a half more.
MR. LACROZE: A foot and a half more and the way the distance is,
the way they measure there are distances to the bulkhead then you
know, it shouldn't from their standpoint and I mean I shouldn't have
an opinion on what they'll consider or not, but, it should, from
their standpoint it should be basically the same in terms of you know
having to reject it and then coming back to the variance a-
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI:
setback does it?
It doesn't affect the side yard
MR. LACROZE: I'm sorry.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Does it affect the side yard
setback?
MR. LACROZE: No.
Page 13 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I just wanted to mention that
today, Gary Fish, the Building Inspector came down and he said,
that if an alternative was submitted and it's within the same
setback, that he has already disapproved it, you don't need to give
a new disapproval.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI:
another yard area or lot coverage.
OK, It's only when it affects
MR. LACROZE: Yeah, no it doesn't because it moves to the center
of the property so the other side yard doesn't, doesn't get effected
here.
MEMBER TORTORA: What happened to your neighbor on the other
side then? See, he doesn't know about this ( )?
MR. LACROZE: At that point I would have to refer to Mr. Erey
that's had conversations with both and he can relate exactly what
the words of the other neighbor were when he was informed that
something was going on here.
MR. EREY: I'm Iskender Erey. I spoke with both my neighbors.
My neighbor to the left of the property, the Wentz, have no
objection to any building for the simple reason that there's a big
shrub of trees, tall trees, between their and our properties and
their property protrudes out to the sea. There's a line that
protrudes out. As far as Mr. O'Neill is concerned, I spoke with him
as well and his objection was, that anybody standing here who
encroached on privacy of his and that his son did not want it and I
said, very well, we'll do alternative plans and last Saturday we met
with Mr. Lacroze and did the alternative plan which we wanted to
submit to yourselves this evening. So, there's no objection from the
Wentz.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Good
MR. EREY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
do you have any more Mr. Lacroze?
Alright, we'll start with a,
MR. LACROZE: No, that's, no.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio, Mr. Lacroze?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I don't have any questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins?
MEMBER COLLINS: A, it's partly a question, partly simply that I
would like the record to reflect what I think the Building
Page 14 -Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
Department's records show.
in September of 96?
I gather Mr. Erey bought this property
MR. EREY: Yes, ma'am.
MEMBER COLLINS: And at the time that you bought it, I gather
that that deck that's there now already existed?
MR. EREY: It did.
MEMBER COLLINS: But, it had not previously had a Building
Permit granted and just about the time the property was changing
hands, the prior owner applied for a Building Permit for that deck,
"as built". In other words, I build it, please give me a Building
Permit now after the fact, and he got the Building Permit and as far
as I can tell, the Building Department didn't raise the issue of the
setback from the bulkhead at that time, and I wonder if you recall
Sir, any discussion at that point at time?
MR. EREY: No, I do not because I bought the house contingent
upon his getting the CO for the deck which did not have one then.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right.
MEMBER COLLINS: OK, that's, how I thought the record read and i
just wanted to get this down in black and white. I don't think I
have any other questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTORA: I don't really have any questions and I'll be
very candid with you. I feel that this it's a too close to the
bulkhead. The setback requirement 75 feet, whether you put it on
the east or on the west, my opinion 7 feet from the bulkhead or 9
feet is too close. You have a large parcel of property in the front
that you can do a lot of things with. You have an existing deck
and the degree of the variance in my mind is too substantial.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Homing?
MEMBER HORNING: I don't have any questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright. Is there anybody else in the
audience would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody
like to speak against the application? Anything you'd like to say?
MR. LACROZE: Yes, I'd like to a, if you could just explain just out
of a, basically wanting to you know, information of why is the
bulkhead, the proximity to the bulkhead an issue? I understand
that 75 feet, but when we're dealing with a property that the whole
house is within 75 feet of the bulkhead -
MEMBER TORTORA: It acerbating an already difficult situation.
Page 15 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MR. LACROZE: But, why is it exactly that it becomes a -
MEMBER TORTORA:
Town Code?
Why was the law enacted?
Why is it in the
MR. LACROZE: Yes because from the DEC standpoint, a which
would be, I mean I want to know, is it an engineering issue or is it
a an environmental issue. From the DEC standpoint, they don't
regulate distance as of construction to the bulkhead as long as your
landward a man made structure (Constant thundering make Mr.
Lacroze's statement in part, inaudible) So, I was wondering
whether, I mean I know that the concern is obviously that there's a
regulation that within and that's why we're asking for a variance,
but I like, whether it's an engineering issue or an environmental?
MEMBER TORTORA: Thundering makes it inaudible. - the Chairman
because he was here when the law was enacted and he probably has
a much more ( ) than I do.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We knew when the law was enacted that
it was going to effect the existing property owners. There was no
doubt in our mind. This being an existing house, it's probably
been in existence. I didn't look at the card when it was really
built, but, it appears to be
MR. EREY: 1960.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 1964 maybe, Building Permit?, yes. And
of course I had mentioned to the council person who had
orchestrated it that a, you know, this was going to be you know, a
difficult situation. But, I have to tell you, that our concerns are
ones of in all instances a, the bulkhead being the mean, OK, that
we deal with, because it's the measuring tool -
MR. LACROZE: Right.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Seaward of the house basically. When I
say seaward, I mean from that direction seaward toward it. There
appears to be very little room up on top and that's what exists when
you look at this entire project. We had an application at the last
hearing for a gazebo, alright. I don't know the exact distance, but
we granted it 40 feet from the bulkhead. I did call the gentleman
today. He asked me to come up and see him, but he was not
home. In fact, I just left your applicant's, your client's
property. He too, wanted to build closer to the bulkhead. We're
just not specifically concern with, the concern is that the bulkhead
has reticence, we know that reticence is those tiebacks that exist
somewhere in the soil. Some of them are free standing. They're
just driven pilings. Certainly, the retaining wall is quite
insignificant on this. It's not a strong definite defining point,
but, it's just very, very close, and that's where the concern is.
MR. LACROZE: Yes, that was basically you know, I had, I'm sorry.
Page 16 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
overall philosophy.
Yes, we just, you know, that's the
MR. LACROZE: Yeah, that was basically why we were opting for
the, for the wood piers down to undisturbed soil, rather than any
sort of surfaced stress, you know, among other things on the a ().
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I couldn't really tell the age of the
bulkhead either because it's complete foliated. I didn't go down to
the beach. I stood oh, about 5 steps above the beach when I looked
at it and my first concern is poison ivy. I have to be honest with
you.
MR. LACROZE: ( ) my feelings.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
speak.
This is the applicant who is going to
MR. EREY: Something thai is particular to this piece of plan is the
number of trees. There are three trees very near to the retaining
wall here. There's one right in front of the house there. There's
another one here and two here. Very old trees and tail trees,
which I assume with the roots give some strength to the land. I'm
no specialist, but, I like to think they help.
MR. LACROZE: Other than that, the only other issue I wanted to
bring up for later to a Mrs. Tortora's observations when she raised
the fact that we have a lot of land on the other side of the house.
Granted there is you know, a substantial amount of land there but,
the width of the house practically segregates front and back and
obviously the back as far as and given the layout of the house
itself, the way the bedrooms, living room and so on, are laid, and
the kitchen is on to the water side and so on, use of the rear yard
without benefit of the views and the actual reason of being, of
having a house on that ( ) be self defeating in terms of considering
as a functional and desirable option to make good use of the
property and plus it would be exposing then, that activity that
might go there and what might happen on that use to not only to a
( ) the neighbors, but also to cross, and you know, it'll be putting
more in the public the use of their land rather than it is now ( ),
basically the two neighbors (thunder, inaudible). That's it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else would
like to speak in favor?. Anybody like to speak against? Hearing no
further comments, I'll make a motion closing hearing reserving
decision until later.
MEMBER TORTORA: Second.
Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution.
Page 17 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
7:31 P.M. - Appl. No. 4586 - LISA McELROY
This is a request based upon the Building Inspector's July 22, 1997
Notice of Disapproval for a Building Permit regarding an "as built"
swimming pool which is not located in the required rear yard
pursuant to Article lllA, Section 100-30A.4. Location of Property:
2565 Long Creek Drive, Southold; 1000-52-8-2.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We have a copy of the survey, most
recent date is July 16, 1997, indicating a free flow pool and
concrete patio around side pool in the westerly side yard of this two
story frame house and garage and it will be approximately 16 feet 3
inches from the westerly property line and I have a copy of the
Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties
in the area. Mr. Fitzgerald you're standing there, therefore I
assume you are representing these people. How are you?
MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, that's correct.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'm glad you're inside and not outside.
MR. FITZGERALD: Pardon me?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'm glad you're inside and not outside.
MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, so am I. I don't have anything to add
what's in the application except that to explain as I did in the
cover letter, that a, I think we had too many cooks overseeing the
various aspects of the job and the house that's being constructed.
Mr. McElroy who is here, was under the impression, that the permit
of the house included the pool as it had originally. The DEC and
the Trustee Permits modifications and permits both included the
pool. There were two contractors involved and I was involved. The
two contractors said that the landscaping contractor who was
initially going to do the pool and then he subcontracted that to
another gentleman and in effect everybody thought that the permit
existed to cover construction of the pool. So, that's how we come to
be talking about "as built" instead of one of the pool.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We recently had some applications in this
specific area. Actually the other application was in the whole
section of Endicott Park, which is basically of similar consequence.
Could the pool have gone in the rear yard?
MR. FITZGERALD: No, not and maintain the 75 foot setback in the
wetlands. There's a large. Do you have the survey in front of
you? There's a large lagoon if you will, of wetlands that occupies
the most of the rear yard of the property. You can see that the 75
foot setback line runs right at the edge of the pool.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
neighbor.
Alright.
We also had a letter from the
MR. FITZGERALD: Yes.
Page 18 - Hearing Transcripts
July ~.3, 1998 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr., Mrs. Slatkin.
MEMBER COLLINS: Mr. & Mrs.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, yeah, right, Mr. & Mrs., I
apologize. Is there anything you want to address on that issue at
this point, or do you want to hold off?
MR. FITZGERALD: I think Mr. McElroy is willing to make it right ·
with ( ) or With regard to each of the particular complaints.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright. I guess will 'run through the
Board first with you and/or he and then we'll ask them to speak on
that issue. Mr. Dinizio, any questions?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, just a comment that I think it's probably the
most logical place to put the pool if you turn it back to the
wetlands and I just can't quite get the concrete patio. Is that just
going to be right at the ground level? Is it -
MR. FITZGERALD: It's exactly where it is.
MR. McELROY? The grade is raised up.
MEMBER DINIZIO:
cover that?
Yeah, so there's no retaining walls other than to
MR. McELROY? No, not on the patio at all. There's a retaining
wall on 'Lhe westerly side of the property that is built up 4 feet.
On the easterly side of that I have 22 Cypress plants that completely
give the yard completely privacy on the Slatkin's property. I spent
an awful lot of time and money on the landscaping to give an
appearance that would not encroach on you know, my neighbors as
well as give us a nice private environment. As the situation arose,
we had the DEC permits and the landscape contractor who gave the
environmental design, was handling the pool permit process. So,
when Chituk Pools who installed the pool was told by Creative
Environmental & Design who ( ) with it, and since I was paying
Creative Environmental & Design to handle this project, we thought
we had all permits in place until after the fact.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Could I have your name please.
MR. McELROY: Yes, David McElroy, I'm Lisa's husband.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Thank you.
MR. McELROY: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I was going to read that into the record.
MR. McELROY: The only place that the pool could have been put
anyway within because of what Mr. Fitzgerald just mentioned, but I
did try to a put the appearance of the pool and make the ambiance
Page 19 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
of the pool fit in more so in the neighborhood than more than I
needed to do such thing. I noticed that Mr. & Mrs. Slatkin their
concern is that from what I read in the letter, that there is a
humming sound that comes from the filter and they made a complaint
to us about that last year. I think Mr. & Mrs. Slatkin spoke to my
wife what have you. The filter I do not turn on in the evenings
anymore. If I want to float in the pool I now do that in the day.
But, I am willing to sort of soundproof in that event~ if that is one
of their objections. I'll put a box or something of that nature
around that humming sound that they may even hear during the
daytime if that does alienate them and I'll also prepare to plant
some nice shrubs. In their complaint they claimed, well not claimed,
they said it's an eyesore on their property althoUgh it's a good six,
seven feet from their actual house and it's all wooded on that side
of the property. In any event, I am prepare to put some nice
shrubs so they do not have to look at that in the fall or the winter
because ( ). I have absolutely no problem with that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
else?
Good, thank you.
Mr. Dinizio, anything
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, that's it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ms. Collins?
MEMBER COLLINS: This probably makes me sound like a historian
but, I'm just curious about the evolution of this. The house I think
was built in 1996 and I guess the pool was built pretty much
contemporaneously with the house as a single large project.
MR. McELROY: The house was constructed in 95, and the
construction finished in the summer of 95 and the CO was issued I
believe the fall of 97.
MEMBER COLLINS: What I'm getting at is, looking at the record, it
appears that a Building Permit for the pool was in fact, submitted to
the Building Department in October of 96 and it was denied and sort
of nothing happened and then in July of 1997, there was a Building
Permit application put in by Mr. Fitzgerald acting for you. Here I'm
flipping through the papers and I can't find the things that I'm
looking for, but, I'm reading my notes. There was a Building
Permit application in the summer of 97, which was disapproved. It
was a resubmission of the one from October of 96. It was
disapproved and at that time they in fact issued a written
disapproval which we have in the file. And then, the whole thing
was resubmitted again this year. Why has it taken so long to decide
to come to get the variance?
MR. McELROY: I think that there was some confusion to me with
the pool and also there was an issue with the fencing around
the pool and we were told when the Building Inspector came, to take
the temporary (?) - we had to go with the proper By-Laws and get
the fence installed and then it just got laid aside. No reason, we
Page fi0 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
just got pushed aside. The pool was here, the pool was closed up.
We jUst got to addressing the issue now.
MEMBER COLLINS: Yes, I guess the ax, I should admit what ax I'm'
grinding. I'm sure that had you come. in looking for a variance to
put the pool where the pool is at the time you wanted to build the
pool, I would certainly suspect that the variance would of been
granted because I think the location is a reasonable one and the
wetlands setbacks are a real fact. I'm just troubled by the fact
that the pool was not only built without a Building Permit but there
Were a couple of disapprovals from the Building Department and they
were just ignored. That's the axe I'm grinding.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTORA: No questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Homing?
MEMBER HORNING: I was wondering, picking up on Ms. COllins,
you mentioned that you got permits from the Town Trustees and the
DEC. I don't have that in my file. Did you submit copies of that?
MR. McELROY: No, it was probably granted by the DEC. I was
under the assumption application for the permit for the pool when
construction was commencing was done by Creative Environmental
Design who was managing the project, being that Chituk Pools was
the one who installed it. The normal process from what I
understand is that the pool company when we retain them goes and
gets the pool permit. I understood, that being the landscape
contractor who was involved with this thing, as Mr. Fitzgerald
pointed out to you - too many cooks in the kitchen.
MEMBER HORNING: I mean, how do We know that this statement is
correct that you have these approvals from the Trustees and the
DEC?
MR. McELROY: Well, the DEC I probably have a permit. As far as
the Trustee, the pool.
MEMBER HORNING:
the record?
My question is, did you submit that as Part of
MR. FITZGERALD: No.
MEMBER HORNING: To the ZBA?
MR. FITZGERALD: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can we have a copy of it some time?
MR. FITZGERALD: Sure. Yes.
Page 21 - Hearing TZ~ansCripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN: OK, while you're standing there,
MR. McELROY: Sure.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, while you're standing there is
there anybody else in the audience who would like to speak in
favor? Anybody like to speak against? Yes, Sir, could you use
this mike over here? Would you state your name for the record if
you would Sir?
MR. SLATKIN: Yes, my name is Daniel Slatkin. I would like to
speak against the unconditional granting of this, I don't know if
this is working?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I think it is.
MR. SLATKIN: I like to speak against the unconditional granting of
this variance. My wife and I live next door. I just want to know
what assurance that we would have that Mr. McElroy or any
subsequent owner of the property would in fact build a soundproof
structure, a, you know, a soundproof structure with a double wall
structure, a double wall structure rounding the a, this pumping
apparatus here to alleviate the humming sound, to alleviate the
humming sound. That's the first thing. The other thing is, a, the
question of the appearance of this structure. It cannot be
alleviated by planting the foliage because he has no, the McElroys
don't have any room between our property and this humming
structure to plant these is just physically as you can see -
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, if it's capped with a building you're
not going to see that. You're going to see a building.
MR. SLATKIN: Yes, if, but Mr. McElroy, used the phrase sort of,
sort of. I don't know. In other words we're addressing our
petition to, not to Mr. McElroy, but to this Board.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I can tell you this. That if it is not
done to our liking and if it doesn't work, we'll reopen the hearing
and we will very simply not allow him to have his pool in the
sideyard. We've done that on the Board's own motion and other
situations. Do we do it usually?, no. Have we've done it before?,
yes.
MR. SLATKIN: And I would like to reiterate what we said in the
letter, that we have no objection whatsoever to Mr. McElroy or any
subsequent owner to enjoy this pool. It's a very nicely built pool
and it is true, that Mr. McElroy has spent a good deal of effort
planting foliage, planting trees and so forth.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Mr. Slatkin for your
concern. Anybody here have any questions of'Mr. Slatkin?
MEMBER TORTORA: No, I have of Mr. Fitzgerald.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Fitzgerald.
Page 22 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MEMBER TORTORA: The pump house, how far off the property
line. It's two feet off the property now, what part off the property
line could you place that in an enclosed soundproof structure?
Could you place it 5 feet off the property line?
MR. McElroy: South? I believe Mr. Slatkin has requested from Mr.
McElroy, that the shed over the filter itself which makes no noise,
but, it's an eyesore to them, the .filter. My feeling on it is, to
answer your question, yes it could. It can be moved over a couple
of feet, and build a shed around that.
MEMBER TORTORA: You know, that way we can get it off the
property line. It's two feet off the property line now and if we
could a, would 5 feet be reasonable?
MR. McElroy: I could move that, yeah, I would have absolutely no
objection moving it a few feet over to allow Mr. Slatkin to move
out. What I was going~ to do was, request his permission to plant on
the side of the split rail fence at my expense, several nice
plantings that would be the right kind of ( ) to eliminate the view
for that.
MEMBER TORTORA: It'll really be preferable if you can get it off
the property line, go five feet back and then -
MR. McElroy: You can recommend that I take that filter and move it
three feet towards the easterly. I have no problem with that. I
could do that, yes.
MEMBER TORTORA: I think that would be better. When you have
room to do planting on your property and soundproof it and put it
in a nice little enclosure like a lot of the pools have and-
MR. McELROY: I'll soundproof the actual, pump. I can build a
soundproof box with styrofoam, shake it and mold it right in and
that will eliminate I imagine a good portion of that humming sound.
During the course of the day, last year and the season before that,
the pump only runs at night. I have neighbors east of me I have a
waterfall on my property so that can also be heard. Our neighbor
runs this fall every evening. I hear the waterfall every evening.
Neither does it concern me. I want to be a good neighbor. If
something that's bothering him I want to have to accommodate them.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, just so you're aware that the
concern is the view of the pump and the noise of the filter. What
we're talking about is enclosing both.
MR. McELROY: Reversed.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'm sorry, the noise of the pump rather
and the size of the. filter. Of what we're talking about is enclosing
the whole thing.
MR. FITZGERALD: Soundproof the pump?
Page 23 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Moving it over -
MR. McELROY: OK.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So that normally on a one acre lot you're
required to be more than, you know, five feet, OK, we're going to
tell you probably if we're so obliged to go a minimum of three feet
to allow for the enclosure and in that case you will not probably
have to come back for a variance because of the placement of that.
But what we are asking you to do, is not only soundproof the pump
but, soundproof the room itself on his side through the use of
styrofoam or some other, some sort of technique on the inside of the
building, the little enclosure itself.
Mr. McElroy: The pump is what a, again, it's a, that's what's
making the humming sound.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, once you put it inside a unit that's
probably going to be much quieter.
MR. McELROY: That's what I meant, well that's what I would do.
I'd build a case. I can't take the pump out because it's connected
to the actual filter. I'd use piping that and the perimeter of the
whole filtration system, but, I can certainly construct a special
unit that will hold it up as I just said.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
the ugliness of the -
Well what can you do to get away from
MR. McELROY: You wouldn't see it if I move it 3 feet and I will
surround it with shrubbery that will not fall in the fall or the
winter. You will not even see it. Our place is three feet over. I
can also transfer some of my cypress plantings which are 10 feet tall
and you won't even see the pump.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: There's no way you can enclose this in a
building similar to what they make this a -?
MR. MeELROY: Of course there's a way that I can do that, but, it
makes no sense. Now it's going to be a, you take a whole shed,
you shed this whole 4 foot strudel aluminum filtration system into a
shed would absolutely make no sense. If the issue is that, the view
is unpleasant for them. I fixed that by moving it three few feet
over and eliminating the view from their property all together.
They won't even see the filter or the pump. It will eliminate the
noise by building that soundproof unit that I just discussed.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, well, what we're going to do, is
we're, going to do the exact same thing with the pool we had in East
Marion. We're going to let you do this, alright, and then we're
going to come back and inspect it.
MR. McELROY: OK.
Page 24 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, ]998 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, and we're going to hear it and we're
going to make sure it doesn't make the noise. I'll be right with you
Mrs. Slatkin, and if it still makes the noise, we'll have to reopen
the hearing and then we have to get whatever other things may have
to be done.
MR. McELROY: May I just ask what would you like to see happen
with it? Would you like to the ( )? Would you prefer to have the
shed put over the filtration system?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What I would take and I'm not telling you
how to build it.
MR. McELROY: No, I understand.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I would take a normal clear cedar fence,
stockade fence. I would cut it down, alright, -
MR. McELROY: Oh, I see what you're saying.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And I would enclose it totally and put a
roof over it with the side to the pool completely open for your
access.
MR. McELROY: OK.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, so that you can take the top off the
filter if you have to and change whatever you have to do. I mean
anything you have to do. I would styrofoam the entire interior of it
as a sound deadening device.
MR. McELROY: Hm, hm.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's exactly and then I would paint it
a very neutral color so as to blend in with everything that does
exists. That exists within the area. Mrs. Slatkin over here if you
would dear.
MRS. SLATKIN: So far as painting it goes, there's nothing
prettier or more blending in than nice weather and cedar.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well that's what I'm saying. I mean it
doesn't have to. You can paint it clear. It's going to weather.
MRS. SLATKIN: So, I think it should be left untouched. But, just
moving it three feet, you know, that we would still be able to see it
and I really don't think the shrubbery would do it. So, we really
would like that enclosure because that will take care of two things
at once.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And I think the moving it over a little
bit would allow him to put some shrubbery in back of it which will
make it less obtrusive to you.
Page 25 .- Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MRS. SLATKIN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How's that?
MR. McELROY: OK, I'll agree to that. I don't have a problem with
that.
MRS. SLATKIN: OK.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I very rarely tell anybody how to build
anything but, that's just my suggestion. You asked my question in
that you asked me .a question. Mr. Slatkin? We're trying to
alleviate a further -
MR. SLATKIN: Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the comments that Mr.
McElroy made, but it's my understanding from this exehange that,
correct me it I'm wrong, Mr. McElroy correct me if I'm wrong. But,
it's my understanding, you know, Mr. MeElroy in fact, does not
wan~ to move that electric pump.
MR. McELROY: No, I will move the pump filter.
Mr. Slatkin, we'll move it five feet, we'll enclose it.
It's all one unit
MR. SLATKIN: So, my understanding is incorrect, thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
Mrs. Slatkin?
Thank you.
Is that agreeable to you
MRS. SLATKIN: Yes, but may -
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It's lust, you're, sitting in the back there
and we can't get down you know, and that's the reason why we're
constantly making you come up. We apologize, I'm not directing you
to use anything. I'm just -
MRS. SLATKIN: OK, I think that point is all settled, but, I would
like to mention the first point that we brought up which was that
when this pool was first built, the noises and music was truly
horrendous and we haven't heard it lately. But, you never know
what will happen in the future. Now we've heard that the McElroy's
house is up for sale and so even if we hadn't heard that, there may
well be subsequent owners and we would just like it understood that
we don't want anybody there whose going to make it unbearable for
us to be on our own property. So the music is played so loud, that
even in our house with the windows closed we still have to listen to
it. We haven't heard that kind of music lately.
MR. McELROY: Well that's three years, three and a half I think.
But, there was a Sunday afternoon around eleven, twelve oVclock
and just so you, Mr. & Mrs. Slatkin know, the music that was being
played was off the rear porch and not off the pool. ~It was a, Frank
Sinatra music or what have you. It was not a, why, I see the musie
earried over to their property because it's open space even if it's
wooded and what not. I, I, we never play the music in the
Page 26 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
evenings. As a matter of fact as she just pointed out, we haven't.
We try to be good neighbors once they spoke of how that bothered
them and there has not be an incident since then which was a year
and a half ago. This particular day was a Sunday afternoon about
eleven o'clock, twelve o'clock. I can see their point how the music
carries over to the property, but, it wasn't from the pool, it was on
the rear porch and I want to be a good neighbor. What. can I do to
be a good neighbor? They let me know their concerns, they let me
know their concerns with this and I believe as Mrs. Slatkin has just
said, there has not been an issue for about a year and a half
regarding that incident, so. Any future owners, yes, if my house
was sold, or I would imagine it just be part of good neighbors, you
know, caring them, so far it's mutual.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Your house is for sate?
MR. McELROY: Yes, it is.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
improvements ?
OK, but you intend to do all of these
MR. McELROY: Absolutely. I'll have it known within five days. I
will start, Mike in the middle of next week?
MIKE: No problem.
MR. McELROY: I will commence immediately to a -
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
a decision, alright?
OK, you've got to wait until we give you
MR. McELROY: Yes, thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, we thank you for your courtesy,
we thank you for your input and a we hope everything will be taken
into consideration within our decision. Hearing no further comment,
I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later.
MEMBER HORNING: Second.
Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution.
Page 27 - Hearing T~nscripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
7:57 P.M. - Appl. No. 4588 - MICHAEL PISACANO
This is a request for a' Variance under Article IIIA, Section
100-30A.3, based upon the Building Inspector's June 15, 1998 Notice
of Disapproval for permission to reduce front yard setback from 50
feet to approximately 48.5 feet, for the "as built" dwelling
foundation at 865 Leeward Drive, Southold; 1000-79-7-25.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I should point out to the people sitting
here, that appeal number 4582 and appeal number 4587 will be open
but, we are postponing both of those hearings. That is the hearing
that was scheduled for 7:00 o'clock tonight.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI:
being cancelled.
Well Dwyer is not being open, it's
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And Dwyer is being cancelled, that's
right. So, we'll go on to Pisacano which is 4588. I have The
recent survey which shows the 48 feet 5 inches to the front porch
and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. I think we're ready, please state
your name.
MR. PISACANO: Michael Pisacano.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
tell us Mike?
How are you?
What would you like to
MR. PISACANO: It makes no noise. Pretty much the reason why I
built a few houses and the setback were always 35 feet, not going
over 40,000 sq. ft. they required a 50 foot setback, surveyor
surveyed the property. I didn't realize it was that Close and I had
the ( ) piece of property. I had the excavator just turn a little
bit because my garage door was entered from the right of the home
and after it was done from the survey, was when it was picked up
by the Building Department. Actually probably about 10 feet from
the front porch that is over 17 inches. It's not the actual
foundation. I guess it could be considered that, but it's just the
front porch of the house that is 17 inches over the required setback
and I really ( ) the house by burying the boards or ripping it
off it would really ruin the whole character of the house.
MEMBER TORTORA: Is there a poured foundation on that?
MR. PISACANO: Sir?
MEMBER TORTORA: There's a foundation poured
MR. PISACANO: It's a poured foundation.
MEMBER TORTORA: So you have to rip that out, be costly?
MR. PISACANO: Would I have to?
Page 28 - Hearing T~=nscripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MEMBER TORTORA: Yes, because 17 inches.
MR. PISACANO: Yeah, I have to rip it up or bury it, but then the
4 x 4s would support the upper roof or bearing. Even if that was
buried they'd still want either the header moved back with new
footings put in, which was unexcavated area, so it's really like
historical ground. You'd have to go down probably quite a bit
to a hit virgin soil or virgin ground.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is just a point of reference. This
is not a smart statement that I'm making to you. At what point
Mike, did you actually find out, that you were encroaching -
MR. PISACANO: When the house was built.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: When the house was built?
MR. PISACANO: Yeah. I'm trying to think when they a, yeah the 4
x 4s were set, then they stopped me and told me to stop working on
the porch area on the side that is on the house. The soffits were
already completed. There's really not a lot that I can do to the
house. I do build them and sell them. It's holding up the CO and
I don't make any money on this but this is what I do.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, we'll go with Mr. Homing first.
Mr. Horning any questions?
MEMBER HORNING: Not at this time.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTORA: No, I just, I mean I can assume that it would
be very costly to rip this up, but, that's a question I'll ask you.
MR. PISACANO: Costly?
MEMBER TORTORA: Yes.
MR. PISACANO: Well, like I said it would ruin the character of the
house. In fact, if it's ripped up, everything is going to be pushed
back so you're going to have like a 3 foot front, boards ( ) apart.
It just wouldn't look right.
MEMBER TORTORA: Would it costs a lot of money, really?
MR. PISACANO: Yes.
MEMBER TORTORA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: When I observed that there was natural
footing around the entire postage stamp area of the front porch and
wa~, a monolithic poured on top basically. Well it's not a monolithic
porch, it's just a pour on top of it. The footing all around.
page 29 - Hearing T~=nseripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MR. PISACANO: It's a full foundation.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Full foundation, yes.
MR. PISACANO:
not a structure.
They said if I buried it, I guess it's considered
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR. PISACANO: They wouldn't allow the 4 x 4 which are holding
up the porch roof to stay in that area, we'd have to take it back,
average. It would mean taking down the soffit, ripping down the
porch roof ( ), it would just be a hassle.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, Ms. Collins?
MEMBER COLLINS: No, I have no questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio?
MEMBER DINIZIO: The description is painful of what you would
have to do I'll tell you that. How long, how far along are you on
this project? Are you weeks away from finishing it?
MR. PISACANO: The kitchen eabinets are in. It's pretty mueh
complete. The front porch is what I'm really held up on. Just
wrapping the polls and putting the brick walls around the outer and
landscaping around it. It's pretty complete.
MEMBER DINIZIO: That's all I have.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, while you're standing there, is
there anybody else in the audience would like to speak in favor of
this application? Anybody like to speak against the application?
Seeing no hands I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving
decision until later. All in favor?
MEMBER HORNING: Second.
Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution.
Page 30 - Hearing T}~ascripts
July 9.3, 1998 - Board of Appeals
8:03 P.M.- Appl. No. 4544 - MARTIN ROSEN (OWNERS: Booker &
ano). Location of Property: 11780 Sound Avenue, Mattituck;
County Parcel #1000-141-3-44. This is a continuation of public
hearing regarding applicant's request for an Interpretation regarding
a proposed tower structure in this LIO Light-Industrial Office Zone
District, and/or Variances based upon the Building Inspector's
February 18, 1998 Notice of Disapproval, disapproving a Building
Permit. application to construct a tower for telecommunications use,
for the following reasons:
1) The proposed telecommunication tower being located on a
nonconforming lot in an LI District is not permitted according to
Section 100-165B;
2) The proposed tower being the principal use on the lot is
required to have a rear yard setback of 70 feet pursuant to Article
XIV, 100-142;
3) The proposed tower is required to be located at least one
hundred (100 feet) from the nearest dwelling unit pursuant to
Article XVI, Section 100-162C.3 .... "
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We're on to Mr. Rosen's application and
we'll then ask Mr. Cuddy if he would like to do the entering
words.
MR. CUDDY: Charles Cuddy, for the applicant. Since the last
meeting we have found that the Building Department, and I also filed
a copy with the Zoning Board, a new map that shows all of the
survey information and all of the site plan information on one
document. We've also filed an amended application pertaining to the
request that the interpretation be concluded before the Building
Department and so that it could also be concluded before this
Board.
I don't want to belabor the points that we've made but I do
think it's important that everybody understands, without question,
the position that we're asking the Board to take. We're asking the
Board to make an Interpretation, initially an interpretation that
this applicant has a radio tower, that radio tower is outside the
scope of Article XVI, which is the Wireless Communications Facility
provision, it's out of the Town Code. When we were last here, it
was my understanding that there was being proposed a different
-interpretation although I'm not sure of the basis for that.
I have Mr. Olshin who is here. He is a Professor at New York
Institute of Technology. And my client (Mr. Rosen). We'd be
happy to answer questions if there is a different way of looking at
the Town Code. I'm only able to find one version of the Town
Code. I don't know how you can get to another version, and I'm
seriously concerned that we are working out two Town Codes:
one Code that has a version literally before you and then another
thai is figuratively before you. If there is another version we need
to know because we need to address that. But I believe if you look
Page 31 - Hearing Ti~nscripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
at the definitions, you look at the purposes, and you look at the
body of the Code, you can only come to one conclusion, and that is
that a Radio Tower does not .regulated by this provision of the Town
Code. I don't know any other way you can do it. I've read it.
I've read the provisions over. I've given you a copy of the 1996
Telecommunications Act, and we're just not inside that Act and I
don't believe we're inside the Town Code and I don't know any
provision in the Town Code that suggests that we are. And
therefore I would ask you to make that interpretation.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK. In light of your letter of
July 10, 1998, what we are requesting from you when we get or
when you get the new Notice of Disapproval is any update on a new
plain application before this Board of any changes that you are
anticipating or anything that you have brought before us, OK, other
than what we have from the original application. That's what we
really need because although we still have the original application~
you know-, you have since requested this - the change for the office
use and so on and so forth which we asked you to address to the
Building Department, and you know, of course we're waiting as much
as you are. But we also need the amendment of that application to
include this Notice of Disapproval be brought forward to us in the
way of an application. Do you understand what I mean by that?
I mean I'm just, I'm not, I know you understand it, but I'm just
asking for an acknowledgment basically.
MR. CUDDY: Yes, I understand what you're saying. I'm prepared
to do that. I was prepared as long ago as March 22 when I first
asked for that interpretation and hopeful, I was hoping that the
Building Inspector would have that done by this time. We're
prepared to file that immediately because the change would be
minimum and certainly we wouldn't be asking for the interpretation
in just a (week?). Naturally, we are asking.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Do you want to go through the entire
request again for what you are looking for up to this date, or shall
we wait until we get that Notice for Disapproval?
MR. CUDDY: Well, I'd be pleased to say in addition to the fact that
we're saying to you that in the Light Industrial Zone, where we
have an office use with an accessory radio tower and that in the
alternative we ask the Board to also consider us the
Telecommunications Tower, if they found we were and, I did not
have it but it's possible, but that's how we were first rejected by
the Building Department. If that happens, then we would ask you
to determine that instead of making a hundred-foot setback, we
could not be more than that is from the dwelling, we could not be
more than perhaps 87 feet away, ~so we'll need at least a 13%
variance on that particular version. We would also need under those
circumstances a variance for the setback in rear yard because we're
approximately 3 feet from the line. The requirement as I understand
it would be 35 feet, so we would need a variance of 32 feet. In that
con~lection the LIRR has consented to our application. They don't
have an objection to where it is, they're the neighbor that's
Page 32 - Hearing T1~nscripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
affected in the back of it and are closer than the wooden house.
But basically those are the applications that we have before you.
We ~vould need in one case at least two variances and there is a
question that arose although I don't believe that it is a serious
question as to having in the Light Industrial District a lot that is
smaller than 40,000 sq. ft. But clearly the code provision that we
talk to - which is Article XVI says that the Bulk Schedule is what
prevails. It says it can't be a nonconforming lot except in
accordance with the Bulk Schedule. And the Bulk Schedule
indicates lots that are before 1957, which this one is, I have a
single and separate search in, is not a part of the minimum 40,000
sq. ft. lot - so I don't think that should be a problem.
MEMBER TORTORA: As far as the Bulk Schedule, there are two
Bulk Schedules. There is 'the' Bulk Schedule and the Bulk AA
Schedule. And if you look at the footprint in the 'section that
you're referring to, where it says "shall conform to the Bulk
Schedule," at the end of this chapter, you go to the end of the
chapter, the Bulk Schedule requires 40,000 sq. ft. The schedule
which you are referring to is the Bulk AA Schedule.
MR. CUDDY: That's correct.
MEMBER TORTORA: I believe there is a distinction. I just wanted
to get that on the record.
MR. CUDDY: I think that the distinction is only because the Bulk
Sched~l~e AA was enacted after the Bulk Schedule that you're talking
about. They weren't enacted at the same time. Interesting enough,
the Bulk Schedule AA was enacted just prior to this code provision
so it would be remarkable if having done the same kind of law,
having done that, we're saying that you should be 40,000 sq. ft.,
because that's the easiest thing in the world to say.
MEMBER TORTORA: I'm not sure that that's so. I'm not sure - in
fact this was the Bulk Schedule that was enacted if I recall a long
time before this Local Law was enacted.
MR. CUDDY: No, I'm talking about the Bulk Schedule AA.
MEMBER TORTORA: AA. So am I.
MR. CUDDY: That was enacted relatively recently.
MEMBER TORTORA: No. That's not so.
MR. CUDDY: Well, either it is, or it isn't.
MEMBER TORTORA: No, it isn't. I guess what Jerry and I, what
we want to do is have a clear understanding of what is before us at
this point because the original application to the Zoning Board of
Appeals which was dated February 6, is for a Telecommunications
Tower. It's for an interpretation and if required a setback variance
as to the distance from the neighboring property line, and it's for
Page 33 - Hearing [['~anscripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
the rear yard setback. There is no other request there. There's
not a request even in there for the office. There's not a request
there for an interpretation of the provisions that you have since
submitted.
MR. CUDDY: That's correct.
MEMBER TORTORA: So we're contemplating this piece meal. What
we're trying to do is consolidate everything, say, here's what we
have before us.
MR. CUDDY: But, each time I come - in fairness to me and my
client, I have explained to you and I'll explain it once again, that
beginning in March, having received for the first time the
Telecommunications Act of 1996, I read it and discovered that what
had had been hoped was not correct. From that point on proceeded
to ask the Building Department, and proceeded and asked by giving
copies to this Board the same thing, that we be permitted to make a
pertinent interpretation. But, there was no response to that from
the BUilding Department. I appeared here and said that the very
first time in April. I appeared here on June 11, and said the
same thing. I say even tonight, I say it's unfair to the applicant,
when he was directed by the Building Department, that he's inside
the code and then finds out that the very provision talked about is
really not applicable, not to let him do with his tower what he's
done is to apply and ask the board to make an interpretation both
ways.
MEMBER TORTORA: Could you give us a copy of that application
that you had submitted to the Building Department?
MR. CUDDY: I think I did.
MEMBER TORTORA: It's not in our file.
don't have a copy of it.
We have your letter. We
MR. CUDDY: Fine. I'll get one.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I think we did, we did have. I know
you did have a discussion with the Town Attorney most reeently and
we had a discussion with him, too; and he very simply asked, you
know, that he didn't ask, we said that we did ask, we did tell him
that we asked you to as a, and I sure the phrase 'in house
keeping,' OK, provision to, to make this application for the new
Notice of Denial. You know, we could go on the original
application. We don't have to do that. I felt bad, I feel badly for
saying this to you, but I mean we could go on the original
application and still continue with that on that premise I mean, but -
MR. CUDDY: Well (interruption by changing of tape). The only
thing I didn't in March was pursue the building inspeetor. I did
pursue him but he still didn't give me the answer.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right.
Page 34 - Hearing Transcripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MR. CUDD¥: So, I hope
MR. CUDDY: (changed tape) I did pursue but to no avail because
we still didn't get any answer. So, I would hope that you would
consider both of these because that's what we've really asked to do.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Both Notices of Disapprovals. The old one
and the new one that's going to be forthcoming?
MR. CUDDY: That's right.
actually saying.
I think that's what the applicant is
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ok. Good. Is there anything you want
your client or, you know, the expert witness that you have here,
you want to state tonight or anything of that nature?
MR. CUDDY: Well again, I don't really know what's being said.
We're asking for an interpretation. We said to you we believe that
the Common Law of New York, New York State Construction Rules is
part of the McKinney's Volumes, when read, it says, that you read
all of the Code Provisions together. So, I don't know if you can
take segments of it and say, well I think this is what it means. I
think you have to take the whole thing. If you take all of it, which
is the way Statutory Construction is done, I don't think you can
escape the fact the Radio Tower is not in the provision; and I
haven't really heard serious argument otherwise, but I get the
feeling that an opinion that maybe the Radio Tower is included, but
I don't know why and no-one has been able to tell me. So, it's our
position that it's not, and we're here because nobody has some
position contrary to them to try and respond to that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, we're- in all due respects to
you, we would like to clear up this issue in the very near future of,
if it is or it isn't and we - and then proceed and that's basically
what I was referring to in my conversations so hopefully we will get
that out of the, out of the barn sort of speak and then we would
then we can go from there, continue with the application.
MR. CUDDY: But. when you say continue with the application, my
understanding was that what you're waiting for is a Disapproval from
the Building Inspector.
CHAIRMAN: Right.
MR. CUDDY: And I assume that Disapproval may be somewhat
presumptuous, but I assume that that Disapproval is simply going to
indicate to you that an interpretation is needed to determine whether
a radio tower is inside or outside of the Code. So I would hope
with that exception, the hearing eventually could come to a
conclusion. There doesn't seem to be a lot more than to except it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, we could still make the basic
interpretation if it is or it isn't.
Page 35 - Hearing ~l~.anseripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MR. CUDDY: Well that's what I mean. What I'm saying to you is
that I would like you to make the Interpretation. I would like the
hearing ~o be closed and I don't think it would need to go on
indefinitely.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, if we had the Notice of Disapproval
tonight, we could close the hearing based upon any testimony that
we would take tonight. OK, but we don't have that. What I'm
saying to you is that we could possibly make a decision if it was
within or wasn't within regardless if we have the Notice of
Disapproval or not. But you feel that possibly the Notice of
Disapproval will further earmark that particular issue. Is that what
you're saying?
MR. CUDDY: No. I .think that the Notice of Disapproval is going
to be plain on its face.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. Yes. That's what I'm saying.
So I mean I still think we can deal with the issue if it is or it
isn't, you know, at an interim type of way, alright, and then
proceed with the application based upon the new Notice of
Disapproval.
MEMBER TORTORA: Because another thing, in the Notice of
Disapproval, they're going to review the office plans and we don't
have that actually. We have not seen that at all.
MR. CUDDY:
submitted.
Well, the survey I gave you was the plan that was
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes.
MEMBER TORTORA: Yes, but -
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 600 sq. ft. office.
MEMBER TORTORA: Yes, but the Building Department didn't review
that when you originally submitted your original application in
February.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, thank you. Is there anybody
else would like to speak in favor? (None). Continuing with this
hearing, anybody like to speak against? Mr. Forhkolb, how are you
tonight?
MR. FORHKOLB: Pretty good Chairman, how are you?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright.
MR. FORHKOLB: I've got question for you. At what point does he
need, Mr. Rosen need Health Department, Water and Cesspool
approval? Does he need that before the application or after the
application is granted?
Page 36 - Hearing T~.~anscripts
July 23, ~998 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Every approval that we do is "subject
to". OK, so it would be subject to that anyway.
MR. FORHKOLB:
after?
So if the permit was granted he would need that
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It would be subject to him getting it.
MR. FORHKOLB: Because we know that building hasn't been lived
in in an excess of two years, OK. According to Suffolk County
Health Department regulations, you need 100 feet between cesspool
and well, the neighbor's cesspool and well.
MR. FORHKOLB: And quite frankly the size of the lot, I've done
measuring and he won't make it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
Review?
So he's going to go to the Board of
MR. FORHKOLB: Yes, he's going to have to get a variance for that
also and there's no public water on that street.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR. FORHKOLB: So, it seems to me that this whole situation here
is just a whole string down-the-line variances. That's all.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MR. FOHKOLB: Thanks.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
Booker, right?
Anybody else like to speak?
It is Mr.
REV. DOZER: No, I'm Reverend Dozer.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, I apologize, Sir. I sincerely
apologize.
REV. DOZER: Thank you so much. I mean, if Mr. Booker is as
good-looking as I am. I am Reverend Dozer, Pastor of Unity Baptist
Church of Mattituck, and I am here representing two of our faithful
members, Alice Funn on one side and Mrs. Maddie Simmons on the
other side. And in sitting and just listening I was a little
confused about, well, first of all you know, when you go from one,
when you do a little screening for a swimming pool and noise from a
swimming pool the fact that you have residences on both sides, and
you put up a Telecommunications Tower, you know, it makes you
begin to wonder just how you can do that. But I would hate to see
this variance go through based on the fact that thel?e's nothing in
the Code that would protect you, ok, these are residents that these
setbacks should definitely be imposed and that a hundred feet and
thirty two feet and all these variances as the gentleman just said, a
string of variances. It doesn't seem to be that they're meeting any
Page 37 - Hearing T~anscripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
of the regulations for variance just based on the fact that there's
nothing there or whether it is that it is imposing more hardship
upon the neighbors that are next door that is not in favor of that.
And I think we just wanted it just again to be on record, to let that
be known that these are people that have gone with the American
dream. They own their home, and they've been there, and they're
not. fighting over no noise from a swimming pool. But, they're
talking about a structure that's going to be imposed upon them
completely and in this area, and there's no setbacks that they can
seem to be able to meet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have to tell you, Reverend, that we
are deeply concerned about both of these ladies and the community
itself. There is no doubt in our minds, and they have a tremendous
impact on us, upon me in particular, OK? Mrs. Funn doesn't know
that I Went to school with her granddaughter, or her niece
basically. I graduated high school with her.
REV. DOZER: They are law-abiding ~citizens here, Mr. Chairman.
We appreciate that, thank you so much.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Reverend. Yes, Andy?
ANDREW FORHKOLB: I'm told you, at one previous meeting they
had some opposing signatures?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right.
ANDREW FORHKOLB: I just want to present that to you.
keep that. (Submitted petition of signatures).
You can
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you, Sir. OK. I guess hearing
no further comment, we'll make a motion recessing the hearing again
until we receive the Notice of Disapproval. Yes, Mr. Rosen, Mrs.
Tortora would like to ask you a question?
MEMBER TORTORA: You know, we've been talking about all these
different issues and the obvious question that escaped me. You're
Marty's Trucking Business, right? What do you truck?
MR. ROSEN: FurnitUre, rugs, upholstery, almost anything. Mostly
household goods and bedding, et cetera.
MEMBER TORTORA:
company -
Is it for, you know, a furniture concern, a
MR. ROSEN: I have several contracts.
MEMBER TORTORA:
that's why I asked.
Because I don't see your trucks running,
MR. ROSEN: I have a very good reason for that. In 1977 I had
three hijackings. My trucks are very well-known. I decided, and
it's against the law I might add to send a truck into the city to
Page 38 - Hearing Transcrilots
July 23, 1998 - Board of Aploeals
Brooklyn or certain parts of Long Island, not to be marked. But I
take that gamble and I take my summonses with a grain of salt,
especially here in Suffolk County, which I must add. I've lived out
here in Jamesloort for a little over nine years. I got more
summonses for some reason out of the North Fork. It's just not
strange, but I go with it. And that's what I truck and that's why
I'm a truck - some of my trucks are marked by the way. Most of
them are not.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Rosen, I'm going to go a little bit
farther. I had a discussion with him - with you on Sunday, if~ you
remember. He did show me pictures of his business in Oeeanside
and I would assume Mr. Rosen that you would allow anybody to eome
in and see your business in Oceanside if they wanted to, right?
MR. ROSEN: Absolutely.
out if you recall.
I also brought my corporation papers
MEMBER TORTORA: Do you have antennas from Oceanside east?
MR. ROSEN: Do I have any -
?
MEMBER TORTORA: Antennas?
MR. ROSEN: From where?
MEMBER TORTORA: From Oceanside.
MR. ROSEN: Yes.
MEMBER TORTORA: Where are they located?
MR. ROSEN: At my place of business.
MEMBER TORTORA: East of Oceanside?
MR. ROSEN: No.
MEMBER TORTORA: You never had any antennas in -
MR. ROSEN: In Mattituck? No.
MEMBER TORTORA: Riverhead, Greenport, anywhere?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Nassau County, west, you know, Nassau
County, Western Suffolk County?
MR. ROSEN: No. I have a home in Jamesport. I have a small
tower there, yes, very small and I have an antenna on there, yes.
MEMBER TORTORA: So, that's it?
MR. ROSEN: That's the only thing. I mean, you can't really call
that a tower.
Page 39 - Hearing T~anscripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
MEMBER TORTORA: That's a11.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Any questions of Mr. Rosen?
MEMBER TORTORA: I just wondered what you were trucking.
MR. ROSEN: I'm sorry?
MEMBER TORTORA: I was just wondering what you were trucking.
MR. ROSEN: Household furniture.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you, Sir. Yes.
MEMBER HORNING: I just have a question for Mr. Cuddy.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Cuddy, Mr. Homing would like to
ask you a question if he could.
MEMBER HORNING: I'm curious, Mr. Cuddy, having read Local Law
26 and which is titled the Wireless Communications Facility, are you
familiar with that law as well?
MR. CUDDY: I think so.
MEMBER HORNING: This is the law that you're saying that is not
pertinent to your client's application?
MR. CUDDY: That's correct.
MEMBER HORNING: And yet, the Building Department's Notice of
Disapproval, their first one, the first thing they cite is the
"proposed Telecommunications Tower being located on nonconforming
lot is not permitted according to Section 100-165B," they're citing a
Section of that Local Law 26 -the Wireless Communications Facilities
Law. I'm trying to expand my understanding of your logic to say,
that you're exempt from that law. What definition are you using
since there is a definition of Wireless Communications Facility that
goes along with the Law in the 100-13 Section. What definition are
you using that would make yourself exempt from that law?
MR. CUDDY: I'm not sure I follow the entire question, but the end
of that I think I can answer. The Code has three definitions that
you're aware. One says, Wireless Communications. One says,
Wireless Communications Facility, and the other is Telecommunications
Tower. The Wireless Communications is the one that incorporates
the 1996 Act. It does it in the first sentence. I don't think you
can get the Wireless Communications Facilities without first getting
the wireless communications. If you take that logic, certainly one
is incorporated in the other. But even if you didn't do that,
there's no language in the Wireless Communications Facility
definition 'khat speaks for a radio tower. It just isn't there. And
Page- 40 - Hearing T~anscripts
July 23, 1998 - Board of Appeals
so when you say to him, how do we get there? That's how we get
there. Now, the second-
MEMBER HORNING: Never mind.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, hearing no further comment, I'll
make a motion again recessing the hearing. We assume that we
should be able to clear this up in August and so we'll -
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Is there a date with that?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: August 13, and we sincerely hope that
we'll receive everything that we need to close the hearing at that
time and we thank everybody for their courtesy and I offer that
ladies and gentlemen as a motion.
MEMBER COLLINS: Second.
Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution.
End of hearing.