HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-08/28/1997 HEARING TRANSCRIPT OF PUBLIC HEARING
August 28, 1997
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
(Prepared by Lucy Farrell)
6:48 P.M. - Appl. No. 4498. - ANNE SHANNON
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Variances are requested under Article IliA,
Sec~gion 100-30A.3, Bulk Schedule in the R-40 Zone, for permission to
construct deck addition and accessory shed which exceeds maximum lot
coverage of 20% by adding an additional 504 sq.ft, over that allowed by
Appeal-#4267 dated 9/15/94. Also under Article XXIV, Section 100-244
for non-conforming lots, the deck addition will be less than 35 feet
from the rear lot line. Location of Property: 2775 Marratooka Road,
Mattituck, N.Y. County Parcel No. 1000-123-2-26. Existing total land
area consists of 6775+ sq.ft. I have a copy of the penned in survey
indicating a deck area of a variable 15 feet 3 inches by 28 feet on the
rear of the house and a shed which I believe is 8 x 10 and a copy of
the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties
in the area. Ms. Shannon would you like to be heard?
MS. SHANNON: Basically I just put it up for recreational purposes and'
the shed went up because I wanted to get everything out of the garage
so I could put the car in.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Your garage is 14 x 21, right?
MS. SHANNON: I don'l know what the exact dimensions of it. It may
be on the paper here.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK. I took this off the assessor's card.
Why don't you tell us why you built the deck and why you need he
deck first.
MS. SHANNON: Why t built the deck. Well, basically I built it
because I have a large family and 1 have them out there quite a bit and
basically for some place to sit rather than sit in the wet grass and the
ticks today, I mean you can't sit in the yard and a lot of deer at the
moment across the street. So, that would be my reasons.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, and the storage building again you
stated was?
MS. SHANNON: Yeah, I wanted to take, I have a lot of stuff so you
know, lawn mower, bicycles, all kinds of stuff in the garage that I
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Atagust 28, 1997 - Board. of Appeals
could use the shed to put it in and put the car in the garage. I have
the car sitting right now in the driveway.
MEMBER GOEHRINGER: The only reason why I asked that question is
because you have a significant amount o£ lot coverage over the allowed
lot coverage and I'll give you a rundown after we run through the
Board because they may have questions of you. Will start with Mr.
Dinizio.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, I was wondering just exactly how much the lot
coverage is? They were 27% the last balance.
MS. SHANNON: It's 35% they wrote me on this one. According to Mr.
Boufis's (building inspector's) report, I believe he said it would be an
additional 504 sq. ft. relating to 35% coverage and 7.4 for ZBA Appeal
:~4267.
MEMBER DINIZIO: So, I mean yotf applied for a variance and,
MS. SHANNON: Yes, I did.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Last?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 1994.
MS. SHANNON: Yes, I was having a, I moved out from the City and I
had an extension put on the house so it would be feasible.
MEMBER DINIZIO: So you went to the BuiIding Department and got a
Building Permit.
MS. SHANNON: Yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: And they told you, no you can't, you have to come
to us and then what time did the deck get built?
MS. SHANNON: Well I really hadn't previously and I really just
thought. I was replacing the deck that I had. So I've always had a
deck even prior to the extension.
MEMBER DINIZIO: They built in that deck that was there?
MS. SHANNON: Yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: But it wasn't part of the lot coverage back then?
MS. SHANNON: No, it wasn't, because I didn't even think to at that
point of time that I needed it to be part of the deck.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Ostermann?
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A~tgust 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MEMBER OSTERMANN: This application is for the construction of a
deck and a shed? They're both up.
MS. SHANNON: Well to be honest and truthful, it's constructed.
MEMBER OSTERMANN: So this is incorrect. So this is an 'as built'
request.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: On a lighter sense your house is beautiful.
Mrs. Tortors?
MEMBER TORTORA: You said that this is replacing a deck that was
there. I have a copy of the survey that was prepared by Van Tuyl in
1994 when you went ahead and put on the addition to your house and
enclosed that area 36 x 38 ft. area. The deck was on the house at
that time?
MS. SHANNON: Yes it was.
MEMBER TORTORA: Beeause the Zoning Board of Appeals at that time
granted you a variance for lot coverage specifically for that addition
and no mention was made of the deck in either in the grant of the
approval. See, that's why I'm a little concerned.
MS. SHANNON: There was a deck on the back of the house at that time
prior to my putting the extension on.
MEMBER TORTORA: So at the time you came to the Zoning Board of
Appeals in 1994 that deck was there?
MS. SHANNON: Yes it was. The reason I came to the Zoning Board
was because I was extending the house and closing in the structure and
again going down to put a subbasement in. It was a complete overhaul
of the complete house. It was just about gutted.
MEMBER TORTORA: I'm very confused because I'm confused as to why
that issue wasn't addressed three years ago. (inaudible) before us
tonight which is lot coverage.
MS. SHANNON: '89, it was addressed.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I was just wondering if I could add
one thing. I was looking at the 1994 file just now and it shows on the
assessor's card that the deck that you had there was added in 1990 o~
approximately that time. That's when they started assessing you for
that deck. Would you say that's correct?
MS. SHANNON: I think it was prior to.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Prior to, OK. They started
assessing it in 90 but the survey that you gave to the Board back then-
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August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MS. SHANNON: Was an old survey.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Was an old survey and then you
sketched in the porch, the addition that you were adding.
MS. SHANNON: Right, right, exactly.
MEMBER TORTORA: That 1990 deck was not the same deck though.
That was 12 x 20 deck. In back of the property card with the
assessor's office.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes, they're talking about a 12 x 20
deck.
MEMBER TORTORA: Which was, actually that deck was where the
existing house is now.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Is it possible that you can just come
up for a minute to show us where the old deck was before you replaced
it. This is the old survey that you had in the file. Without the
addition, this was -
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: See this is now Marratooka Road here so
you won't be confused.
MS. SHANNON: This is Marratooks. There was a deck back here.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, that's what the assessors show, yes.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It's 12 x 20. Was it a raised deck or
is it a level?
MS. SHANNON: It was a raised deck, yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Similar to what you have now, only smaller?
MS. SHANNON: Yes, you walked out on it. I should have brought
photographs, I'm sorry.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes, see what it says? It's on the
(assessors) card. That was the question, if the deck was there. And
it shows that it was.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, Mr. Doyen, any question?
MEMBER DOYEN: No.
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August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody in the audience would like
to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against
the application? What would you like me to say to Ms. Shannon? Is
there anything you'd like me to review with her?
MEMBER TORTORA: It's just very confusing because I did see the
original plans for the renovation that were drawn by Penny for the
addition which the Board acted on before and the deck which you say
was there was not on those plans and I'm confused as to why when
they addressed the question both the Building Department and the
Zoning Board of Appeals addressed the question of lot coverage in 94
this issue is not even mentioned.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Well, its possible that deck was
included in the lot coverage. Can we look and let me look a little
further in the file here.?
MEMBER TORTORA: No, what we can do, with a simple and decent map
drawing %Te can come up with the following. If the house is 36 × 38
~vhich is 1368 sq. ft., the garage is 14 x 20 at 294, the shed is 8 x 10
is 80, the deck is 424 which gives you 2166.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have the deck at 400.
MEMBER TORTORA: 24 feet is what the building, 424.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes, but the old let coverage I'm
talking about.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, that's the one we don't have.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: The calculation that's in the decision
here, it says, "the existing building calculation is 1370. So that's
without the deck because that's the same figure you said 1368.
MEMBER TORTORA: That's close enough, Linda.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK, and that's without ~he deck 12 x
20 deck, right?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, no, the original house was much
smaller prior to 1994.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: What the original house?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, sure.
MS. SHANNON: Yes, we extended it I believe it was 13 feet.
CHAIRIVIAN GOEHRINGER: It was only a bungalow, wasn't it?
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Amgust 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MS. SHANNON: Yes, it had been a bungalow.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: And then it says, "...with the
proposed addition". Back then an addition could have included a
deck. It is just terminology. "Addition" was used for everything. It
was given at 1903 sci. ft.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Total 19037
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Total 1903.
MEMBER TORTORA: Linda, there were two actions given by the Board
of Appeals at that time. The original was for a deck addition and then
two days later or a day later a corrected addition was sent out to Ms.
Shannon for correcting it, saying that it is not a deck addition.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It just took out the word' "deck". It
didn't say it wasn't a deck, it took the word deck out and it described
it as an addition.
MEMBER TORTORA: The first one said, that this is just for a deck.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, but what you did do, was you
destroyed the deck and enclosed the deck. Isn't that correct,
Mrs. Shannon?
MS. SHANNON: Yes, we enclosed ail of that back area, yes.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Is it possible in your Building Permit
that you had for the addition that it might show your new addition was
replacing the old addition? Do you recall if -
MS. SHANNON: Ray (Nine), you made out the original?
MR. RAYMOND NINE: I'm not sure about that. I know that the deck
was taken down before we got the permit to put the addition on because
I removed the deck before I excavated the hole for the basement.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: For the record that was Mr. Raymond Nine.
MEMBER. TORTORA: This was the deck, this was the deck that is now
the house. This is new?
MR. NINE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: There's no contest to this, it's a new deck.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Mrs. Shannon, I'm sorry, there's just
a question here in the old file for the (first) addition, was this
(the Ioeation) where the deck was, where it says 12 feet?
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Attgust 28, 1997 -Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It was the back of the house.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It was the back of the house, so it
would have been underneath. So this, here, was an old step area, was
it? See that little square drawn underneath.
MS. SHANNON: Probably yes. The deck was not as big. I mean the
deck was probably and then we just, we bought the house small.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes, beeause it's 150 sq. ft. smaller than
the one you have now. Actually 175.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: And the house was built in -
MS. SHANNON: In the twenties I believe.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: In the twenties.
MS. SHANNON: I think so, I think it was like 1924.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We very rarely come back and look at places
right after, you know, with another application. I mean, it was a vast
transformation when I came back.
MEMBER, TORTORA: The garage was there.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes. So, we have a norm with the garage.
MS. SllANNON: The garage is still there.
MEMBER TORTORA: The other question is, just so we can get this
beeause we don't have this. How close is the deck to the property line?
MS. SHANNON: To the back of the house. We measured it last
night. It was 32.7 feet.
MEMBER TORTORA: OK, that's 32.7 feet and what is the distance
between the closest distance to the garage because that's kind of
deceptive on the survey? I know its a lot closer than it looks on the
survey.
MS. SHANNON: I'd say maybe its at least 4 because I walk around
there ali the time, watering flowers and what have you.
MEMBER TORTORA: So, it's about 4 feet from the other distance.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, we'll do the best we can.
MS. SHANNON: OK, thank you.
Page sS - Hearing ~i.anscripts
A~gust 28, ]997 - Board of Appeals
CttAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Hearing no further questions we'll make a
motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later.
MEMBER DINIZtO: Second.
Motion carried. See minutes for resolution.
Page,9 - Hearing ~lranscripts
August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
7:05 P.M. - Appl. No. 4499 - RICHARD & PAMELA FRERKING
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Variance for addition to dwelling which will
have an insufficient front setback as a principal building at less than
the existing, established 32 ft. nonconforming setback. The Building
Inspector has also confirmed that the setback is less than a 35 ft.
setback (ref: setback schedule for parcels having 9972 sq. ft. in
size). Location of Property: 680 Deep Hole Drive, Mattituck, NY;
County Parcel 1000-115-12-9. Copy of survey from Roderick Van Tuyl
P.C., dated May 10, 1993, indicating the house at approximately 32 feet
at this time and the request I believe is to extend the front of the
hou~2 out to approximately 19 feet plus or minus and I have a copy of
the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties
in the area. Who would like to be heard? How are you tonight, Sir?
MR. FRERKING: Good evening. I'm Richard Frerking. We bought the
property as a derelict property. Ten years ago the house was in
place, the septic system was in place. We rehabilitated building added
to the rear and a little veranda to the front. Ended up with just a tiny
little utility- area under the veranda in front of the building. No
garage, no sheds. The placement of the septic system restricted us
from doing anything more in the back so the hope was that we could
build some addition in the front get us a little nice fence.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is any of that addition garage area?
MR. FRERKING: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, its all living area.
MR.. FRERKING: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I do thank you for your suggesting that we
come down and actually personally meet with you. Its just that this is
a very busy time of the year for me and I apologize for not coming
down. I've been down to the property three times but I kind of
visualize the problem that you have and I didn't think it was quite
necessary to go in to the dwelling to do so. If I do after this
hearing, I'll let you know, alright. I guess will start with Mr. Doyen.
MEMBER DOYEN: No questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTORA: A couple of things. I went down and did visit
your property and your cat is an excellent watch cat, a beautiful cat, a
good watch cat. One of the things I noticed is that you have a very
deep lot, its a very long~ deep lot and that in your application you
stated that both the house east and west that you couldn't put the
addition on the water side because it would block your neighbor's
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August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
view. But, I did notice very specifically that both neighbors are much
closer to the water than you are on both sides of your property. The
other thing I'm a little concerned about is your asking for a 19 foot
setback from the road your doing, where is the garage.? That means
that you're vehicle and presnmably the large boat that was next to it
would be, everything would be moved that much closer to the road.
The question is, what's going to happen to the boat?
MR,. FRERKING: The boat will stay where it is. I included the plans
with the package here. There is no existing garage. Its just a little
veranda that went with my workshop underneath and the extension
wo't~td come out to where that stone wall was. In the rear we couldn't
add any further because I added to my submission the day before
yesterday the placement of the septic system that I think we would get
too close to the cesspool itself and the septic tank is just to the
left-hand side of the house. So, that whole area is kind of restricted
in terms of what we get back there.
MEMBER TORTORA: The other thing, I did look at some of the
setbacks in the surrounding areas within 300 feet of your house and
most of them appeared without a survey, you know an accurate survey,
most of them appeared to be set back considerably further than the 19
feet that you're asking for. The only exception that I saw was the
garage that you mentioned in your original application. What is the
purpose of the new addition?
MR. FRERKING: This is to give me a utility area, a little workshop
area. I do a lot of woodworking and I can show you my existing
shop. Its kind of a dangerous setup the way it is now. If I turn
around I knock things off my workbench.
MEMBEIt OSTERMANN: Where is it now? Where is your workshop now?
MR.. FItERKING: It's under the veranda in front of 'the buildirig.
MEMBER OSTERMANN: Yes, I saw that.
MEMBER DOYEN: A limited space there.
Mit. FREI{KING: Yes it is.
MEMBER TORTORA: This would be quite a large space. It would be
what 21 x 17 x 24?
MR. FItERKING: 17 x
MEMBER TOItTORA: 24 in the rear and -
MR. FREItKING: Yes, right, we're extending 13 feet forward of the
existing structure.
, Page ,11 - Hearing · ~anscripts
August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MEMBER TORTORA: For a total of 217
MR. FR2RKING: Right.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: There's no contest that in my mind that it
would certainly look 100% better in reference to the overs11 aesthetics
of the house. You know, if it was squared off in that area.
MR. FRERKING: Yeah, and right now the veranda is . The plan
was to shingle the structure to match the existing cedar shingles on the
house.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What was that structure originally?
MR. FRERKIGN: It was a house that David Newton built, hand built,
he laid the corner stone in 1949 I believe, never finished it, the
inside had a big firing stove and basic plumbing facilities, no
insulation, it was just an incomplete structure of the sound which is
not rpally finished.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Ostermann?
MEMBER OSTERMANN: No questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio?
MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm just concerned about the by-levels, stone patio
and does that have somewhat of a foundation on it, or ?
MR. FRERKING: No, its just laid stone. Its ali Pennsylvania River
Stone.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I guess it bounces back to me. My
questions is, that if the Board is not happy with the 19 feet are you
willing to accept something in between.
MR. FRERKtNG: I'll take what I can get.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRtNGER: While you're standing there~ is there
anybody else in the audience would like to speak in favor of this
application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Seeing no
hands we will certainly address that issue and we thank you very much
for your really very nicely detailed plans for each individual Board
Member. Therefore, I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving
decision until later.
MEMBER TORTORA: Second.
CttAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor?
BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
Page ,12 - Hearing ', Panscpipts
August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
7:15 P.M. - Appl. No. 4500 - CATHERINE HARREN
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Variance for placement of two accessory
buildings as located in the side yard area. Location of Property: 3000
Reeve Avenue, Mattituck, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel No.
1000-100-1-6. I have a survey produced by Stanley Isaksen, dated
April 15, 1997, indicating those two structures and a one story wood
frame residence which the residence is not the nature of this
application and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this
and surrounding properties in the area. Would Ms. Harren be here?
How are you tonight?
MS. WICKHAM: Mr. & Mrs. Harren bought this property in 1959. I
was appointed a couple years ago as the Legal Guardian of Mr. Harren,
who at the time was in Stony Brook Hospital in an incapacitated
situation. He needed a guardian appointed because Mrs. Harren who is
his only relative was herself at the time in Central Suffolk Hospital,
also in an incapacitated situation. So, I was appointed as his Legal
Guardian and very- shortly after appointed as hers and I might noted
not much from each of those positions its been quite a bit of
difficulty. Shortly after I was appointed I had them discharged to the
Nursing Home where the Nursing Home fees basically used up their
persona] resources and I recently- had to sell the home in order to care
and maintain Mrs. Harren at Oyster Pond Nursing Home, Adult Home,
where she currently resides and so she's not .much-.
Mr. Harren has since died and Mrs. Harren is incompetent so she is
unable to assist me and give me any information of that and pursuing
this application. As I mentioned we contracted to sell the house and
because tile purchasers' mortgage commitment was -we had to close
before we were able to obtain all of the Certificates Of Occupancy for
the house. I have done an exhaustive search to try and ascertain
when this garage - the subject of your application was built, who built
it, and whether a permit was ever issued for it. I was able to
ascertain that it was built in 1962, two years after the house was
buiJ. t. I do not know- who built it, and although we've looked and
looked it does not appear that there was ever a permit that was ever
issued for it. There were permits that were issued subsequent to the
construction of tile garage for other structures and renovations to the
dwelling. If I could just take a minute I have a, first of all, the
affidavits that the Board requires for posting and mailing which I would
like to hand in. I also have if you do not have it in your file, a copy
of the application for the permit that was issued in 1965 which does
show that the garage was existing at the time and this permit was for a
deck and a new addition to the rear of the property. Apparently the
Building Inspector did not pick up at the time that there was a problem
or we wouldn't be here today and that's unfortunate that that didn't
happen. I also have a copy of the Town Assessor's Card that indicated
that the garage was added to the Assessor's Card in 1973. So, it has
been taxed by the Town of Southold since that time. If I may submit
those things to you. My hardship today is that I have no basis of
Page~13 - Hearing zranscripts
August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
going back to the Harrens' and getting any kind of information on how
this might have happened, that we could explain it, and present
something to the Board, and I have gone through all the records in the
house and there's nothing to indicate anything of that nature. The
hardship is that the garage is a small frame garage and it is not
physically of a condition that it could be moved to the rear yard in
order to comply with the Code. I think if you did that you'd basically
have to dismantle the garage and that would be a financial hardship. I
do know that the garage is almost 30 feet from the sideyard and it is in
line with the house, it is connected to the house with a fence and it
does present a nice appearance from the road and from the remainder of
the property which is quite large in relation to the size of the
buildings. So, I would ask that you take the situation (static on tape,
inaudible).
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, while you're there, Mr. Dinizio, any
questions ?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I have no questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Ostermann?
MEMBER OSTERMANN: No questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTORA: Yes, what do you think it would cost you to
dismantle that, just a ball park figure? I know that you had said in
your application it is financially prohibitive.
MS. WICKHAM: I think you would basically have to remove the
garage. I don't think you could move it. You would have to move the
shed and then the garage. I would estimate it would probably be
upwards of $7,500.
MEMBER TORTORA: OK, thank you.
CttAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Doyen?
MEMBER DOYEN: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: While you're standing there is there
anybody in the audience would like to speak in favor of this
application? Anybody else? Anybody like to speak against the
application? Hearing no further comments, I'll make a motion closing
hearing reserving decision until later.
MEMBER TORTORA: Second.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor?
Page '14 - Hearing' ~ ranscripts
At, gust 28, 1997 - Board of ApPeals
BOARD MEMBERS: All Ayes.
Page * 15 - Hearing' ~'ranscripts
August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
7:20 P.M. - Appl. No. 4445 - CHARLES & MARY TANGNEY
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Variance for insufficient lot area in this
proposed set-off or minor subdivision for two lots, situated along a
private right-of-way extending from Little Neck Road, Cutchogue:
County Parcel ID No. 1000-103-5-2.1 consisting of 143,020 sq. ft.
Proposed is the reduction of land area for two parcels, each less than
80,000 sq. ft. in total area. This is an appeal we 'recessed from
January 16, 1997. At the request of Mr. Tangney, we are reeon-
vening this hearing and we'd ask if anybody would like to add anything
to it. Mrs. Tangney, Mr. Tangney? How are you tonight?
MRS. TANGNEY: Fine, thank you. We simply wanted to do was either
sell our house as you know, and go to the house to your rear of the
property.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: On the lot that you're showing it at 102,829
sq. ft., is that correct?
MRS. TANGNEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: With that little 15 foot right-of-way to the,
well that's actually a deeded piece, next to the house property that you
have now.
MRS. TANGNEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, so really nothing has changed since
January except that we've expended about 5, or 6 or 7 months of
time. Member Doyen any questions?
MEMBER DOYEN: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTORA: Yes. A couple of things. I was looking over the
transcript of the last hearing and I know we said a lot of things but a
couple of things did not get into the record -. Maybe your voice
faded, so, I just, so that we have these things into the record, I'm
going to ask you the same questions again and one of them is; why you
chose to divide the lot in unequal size with the 40,000 sq. ft. lot in
the front and 102,000 sq. ft. lot in the rear?
MRS. TANGNEY: That's the way we wanted the property.
MEMBER TORTORA: Would you a, this is a R-80 Zone. Would you
consider a creating a line, redesigning lot #1, so that extending that
southerly property line to run parallel with lot 22?
· Page~ 16 - Hearing' ~ ~anscripts
August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MR. TANGNEY: Well, what would that give you? What do you want
out of that? Engineer socially what my life should be? What do you
want out of that? What do you want out of that? You're going to still
have two lots.
MEMBER TORTORA: It would square off the lots.
MR. TANGNEY: Why do they have to be squared off? We're - lots
now. We're in the boondocks. We're down dirt road.
MEMBER TORTORA: So you would not want a-
MR. TANGEY: I don't see what would that gain. What, you must want
something out of it that I can't see. You're just stealing our
property. That's what it amounts to.
MEMBER TORTORA: Well you have a total of 100 and what 100 and a
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 2,000.
MEMBER TORTORA: 43,000 sq. ft. now and you're in an R-80 Zone.
MRS. TANGNEY: 2-1/2 acres.
MEMBER. TORTORA: Right. To get two lots out of that you would have
to have 160,000 sq. ft. without a variance.
MR. TANGNEY: That's why we here at the Board of Appeals.
MEMBER TORTORA: Right.
MR. TANGNEY: We understand that. We're appealing that - presently
I don't know, I just -
MEMBER TORTORA: Because 40,000 sq. ft. is a 50% reduction in the
Cod.~ requirement. The Code requirement is 80,000 sq. ft.
MR. TANGNEY: It's one of the larger lots in the area.
MRS. TANGNEY: Yes, it is the largest.
MEMBER TORTORA: Fm not disputing if it is or it isn't. I'm saying
that that's what the zoning requirement is.
MR. TANGNEY: We're appealing that we change it and ask if we can
appeal it. That's what we're asking for.
MEMBER TORTORA: We also, would you accept a condition that there
would be no further subdivision on it? That a-
· Page~17 - Hearing ~ i'anscripts
Aagust 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MR.. TANGNEY: Why would I want to put covenant to cloud title? Why
do you want somebody to do that? You already have a 15 foot
right-of-way that violates the code for roads in the Town of Southold.
So, I can't use the road unless I come back to you.
I don't understand what you want, 15 feet. I got to come hack 25
feet, right?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Please remember that this is Mrs. Tortora
asking you. This is not the Board. This is one Member asking.
MR. TANGNEY: I just don't understand. I'm sorry I got upset
because it's hard for me not to get upset. But, the 15 foot
right-of-way makes that a driveway, not a right-of-way and that's a 15
foot driveway. I have to come back in, she'd have to come back in -
but maybe 30 years from now that might be that someone might want to
use that for something else. Maybe not me, I don't know, but maybe
someone else. Why would I put a covenant title?
MRS. TANGNEY: I dox~'t think it would be fair to any future hearings -
MR. TANGNEY: If I left it with my children?
MEMBER TORTORA: I wasn't talking about the right-of-way. I think
you're misunderstanding me. I was talking about the 102,000 sq. ft.
lot in the rear. If the Board approves this variance.
MR. TANGNEY: I definitely would do that. Now we, to put a house
there you couldn't provide somebody else in the future? That's, that's
heyond reason. And I could change it 30 years from now. I lived in
Queens. I saw Queens. There were lots like it here when I was
a kid. Now there isn't no lots at all. They were farm houses. That's
in one person's lifetime. I don't know what my children would do with
that or anybody. Who knows, they might have to sell the whole thing,
but, I can't see putting a covenant title.
MEMBER TORTORA: OK, that was the question.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. We'll go on to Mrs. Ostermann.
MR. TANGNEY: Thank you.
MEMBER OSTERMANN: No questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHttINGER: Mr. Dinizio.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you very much Mrs. Tangney. Is
there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application?
Anybody like to speak against the application? Seeing no hands, I'll
make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later.
Page'18 - Hearing · ranscripts
Amgust 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MEMBER TORTORA: Seeond.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ail in favor?
BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
Pa~e ]9 - Hearing ,ranscripts
August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
PUBLIC HEARINGS, continued:
7:28 P.M. - Appl. No. 4501 - E. NAGY
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Waiver under Article II, Section 100-26
based upon the July 7, 1997 Notice of Disapproval of the Building
Inspector stating two reasons: ( 1 ) under Article II, Section
100-24A.(1) land area identified as 1000-27-4-2 and 1000-27-4-3 were
created by deed in 1965 and do not meet the minimum lot requirements
(12,500 sq.ft.) and, (2) under Article II, Section 100-25A, total land
area merger exists for 1000-27-4-1, 2 and 3 having been held in common
ownership after July 1, 1983. Location of Property: Harbor Road,
Orient, N.Y. Applicant proposes 28,445 sq. ft. of ]and area and
132.57 lot width as to 1000-27-4-3 & 2, and with a remaining house lot
of 20,000+- sq. ft. and lot width of 100 feet as to 1000-27-4-1. Zone
District: R-40. (Schedule AA as revised July 22, 1997 shows a size
reqpirement for lots created between April 1957 thru November 1971 at
]2,500 sq. ft. and 100 ft. lot width).
I have a request from Patricia Moore who is the attorney for Nagys
and she said one of them is ill tonight and therefore she is requesting
a postponement of this hearing, so there'll be no presentation on their
part. However, that doesn't stop anybody that would like to speak. I
have sketches of two surveys and I do have the surveys here. I just
don't have one this split second here and I have a copy of the Suffolk
County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the
area. Who would like to be heard? How are you tonight Sir? Would
you state your name for the record.
MR. RIEGER: My name is John Rieger and I live on Harbor Road. I
have a question in reference to the division. I have here some - I'd
like to comment. I just thought it would make it easier of what I would
be talking about. What my main question is, the wisdom of separating
the two parcels. These two parcels are very small and are certainly
too small to build on and I don't know if its meant to be for building
lot or just for separation of doing whatever they went to do with it.
Let me just give you a quick history. I live on Harbor Road and I
built a house there in ]972 so I'm very familiar with every aspect of
the problems which exists on that particular road.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Where do you live, Mr. Rieger?
MR. RIEGER: On 370 Harbor Road which is one block over to the east
from the NaRy property.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: On the water side?
MR.[' RIEGER: On the water side, yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK. Is that the extension of Harbor Pond
Road, down in that area?
page' 20 - Hearing ' transcripts
August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MR. RIEGER: set up, I guess it was called Douglas Road once and
Harbor Road is part of Harbor Pond Road, yes. Originally I think it
was Douglas Development a which by the way I think it should never of
happened because the land is certainly a marsh land. It is below water
level and I don't understand that even if somebody wants to build now
on a property which is basically not buildable. Recently Nags- sold
property on the corner across the street which means that another
house will be built down that corner., just across from where she is
proposing now to subdivide. But, what I don't understand that if she
is high, doesn't she want to sell the property or the parcel as one
together w~th the house is. Actually it would increase the value of the
property she oyvns there. If she is separating it, it would decrease the
value of not only her property but also our property since there is a
building envelope which falls right into the area where these are which
show-s on the picture and if the building envelope exists there, where
would be the septic pool, where is the reaching field, since it is
underwater? If it is a holding tank well the area is ail the time
flooded, once a year it leaks. I have photographs dating back 85 to
just last week. We had two foot of flooding and that was deep enough.
Salt water, its not rain water. It's coming through the corner of
Narrow River Road and Harbor Road and it is constant. I mean it's
every year at least once or twice which means that it produce ( )
The hold of the water is not of -. I had the problem, I wanted to
provide water for myself in 1972, 25 years ago and was unable to get a
line. Actually, Mr. Nagy was against it by the way. So when he was
against that particular period of time of building in this area, why
does he want to build, I mean enlarge the capacity of building lots in
that area? It doesn't make sense. Well, I think another thing it will
do, it will set a precedent for unmerging something which has to merge
to comply with the zoning. Now, if you know this, the zoning around
us there is R-200 and R-80. We are no bigger than R-40 but even the
R-40 I think is, a we're not - happy that that would not have been
done like 1950. The development was never happy because it is as I
said before under water, basically marsh land and I was stupid enough
to buy land there and have difficulties of building on it and I don't
want anybody else to have to be in the same position where they buy
property and would not be able to build on. That's all I have to say.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Sir. Is there anybody else
would like to speak? Yes Ma'am. Just state your name for the record
please.
MS. ALLECIA: Yes, my name is Sandy Allecia. I live at 300 Harbor
Road. There is the right-of-way or the next house of the Nagys'
property for sale. We have been flooded several times and what
concerns me is with the building and I sympathize with the Nagys,
they pay the taxes, they have this property is that if they were to
berm like we bought our property bermed. I mean the right, I think
that our three houses and this is the Nagys the house down a narrow
road will become a little island because like last Thursday, we had to
open our ears at the driveway because of the water and it wasn't
Page~21 - Hearing lranscripts ·
August 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
raining. It's just a high tide, full moon whatever, and the storm and
it just concerns me that how someone would grade the property to build
on it, where they could put a cesspool that would be safe, where they
can do all of these other things and I think we'll just get flooded back
constantly and unfoi~tunately, Frank and I naively bought too. I mean
I love my spot, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love it, but I mean,
we went out there one time it just gets flooded. I think more than
once or twice a year. You know, we're just flooded constantly and you
know, you plant things, we bought several trees over the eleven years
we've been there, because you just don't expect it but all of a sudden
you're just, you're just in three feet of water and it does come down
Narrow River it doesn't come over the Bay, it didn't come over the Bay
in any of the hurricanes, They stayed out for hurricanes. It never
comes over, our retaining wall from the Bay, it comes down from Narrow
River and the Department of Environmental Conservation property so
that's our concern. If someone was to build and to berm I think we
would be an island. No longer part of Oribnt or anywhere else and I'm
really concerned about that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Anybody else would like to
speak? We will convene this hearing, are we going to go with the llth
or are we going to go for the (end of tape)
MEMBER TORTORA: I would like to ask a few questions.
(Changed Tape to side B). Could you show us where your house is
here on this little map here - on Harbor Road?
CHAIRMAN: Could you spell you're last name, please?
MRS. ALLECIA: Allecia.
MEMBER TORTOHA: Would you show me where you house is here on
this little map here? Jon, you're on this map here?
MR. R1EGER: Yes.
MRS. ALLECIA: This is us. This is the right-of-way. This is the
property for sale. This is Nag~r right here.
MEMBER TORTORA: So, you're the adjoining neighbors to the east and
west.
MRS. ALLECIA: Yes., and this part of our house here is the
property on the bay is only from I would say, (inaudible) recessed
goi~tg down the bay, but the side property here has to be a berm I
would say 8 feet easy.
MEMBER TORTORA: What are you on a specific flood zone?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The houses were built well before the flood
zone.
' Ps, ge· 22 - Hearing" ~;panscripts
A~gust 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MRS. ALLECIA: I don't know, we bought it in 1986.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: When you use the word 'berm,' you're
referring to 'elevated.'
MRS. ALLECIA: Railroad ties.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes, elevated.
MRS. ALLECIA: I call them railroad tides.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Berm is like that, so I mean -
MRS. ALLECIA: Oh! I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, no, the entire piece of property is
elevated on that side. Significantly.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It's a barrier.
MRS. ALLECIA: Barrier, but I mean it's a -
MR. : We're elevated. We're elevated, our' house is elevated.
MRS. ALLECIA: But we're elevated by railroad ties by eight feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Significantly, no there's no question about
it. Mrs. Ostermann and myself were there and that was the day you
called .the dog in.
MEMBER. OSTERMANN: Does the water run down when it does happen?
MRS. ALLECIA: The water comes down from here all the way down
here. If you saw it, yeah, really, his photographs are very good
because the water comes from down here, comes running, this becomes
a river that we can't even have our cars in the driveway and I'm like
90 feet, we're quite a distance back. We've always gotten flooded up
this way. It's never come over the bank.
MRS. OSTERMANN: But then you go down the a (inaudible).
MRS. ALLECIA: Oh, the right-of-way is, forget it. The right-of-way,
you could be knee deep, or 5 feet of water.
MRS. OSTERMANN: Because you're higher.
MRS. ALLECIA: I'm, I'm like up here. Yeah, - you come down, my
dog was - that whole thing becomes (inaudible).
MRS. OSTERMANN: And what does it run down into the (inaudible).
Pa*go'23 - Hearing~ x ranscripts
Amgust 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MRS. ALLECIA: Not really, it's kind of a little bit of a sandy hill
here, a little bit up, but it does, I mean it has, it's like in the
hurricane, you know, the Northeastern, it went over there - but this
area becomes very flooded and I really couldn't tell by the amount of
foliage and trees and this, how much that area would flood, but I
mean, it's obviously getting water, but, but the right-of-way, so like
that*s what I'm saying, they berm on this side, the right-of-way is
narrow and we're berm on this side and then we get the flooding
coming down Narrow River and the Bay is here. Move our three
homes, it becomes a island, because its coming up from, I don't know
their names. The house after you, their names?
MR. NAGY: Zerkovin (spelling ?)
MRS. ALLECIA: Zervokin's (spelling?) house is right at the end of
Narrow River Road, so it' coming up the Bay there, plus over from the
wetlands, coming down, going around and that's our concern really. I
mean if we didn't get flooded who cares what they build, you know?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Mr. Rieger the spelling of
your name is?
MR. RIEGER: R-i-e-g-e-r.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Sir. OK, it appears we're going
to recess this until September 25th and I'm going to request to the
Board write Mrs. Moore a letter requesting a topo of this property
because based upon the information that we received tonight, we'd like
to see what elevation factors we're talking about.
MEMBER TORTORA: We'd also like someone tell us about the flood zone
because I an coneerned about that -
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes, OK, we have an elevation of nine in
the flood zone.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Just one other thing. We don't have
a survey for the house lot, would you want that also?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure, yes.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: So you'll do it all together?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes and in the letter please mention Ms.
Moore if she can't have that by September 25th, that we'11 recess it.
Yes, Mr. Rieger?
MR. RIEGER: Can I -, it's a nine foot elevation?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes, Flood Zone 9. Flood, no, that means
that the lowest floor area has to be elevated at 9, which are pilings.
Pa~e ~ 24 - Hearing' ~-canscr/pts
· August 28, 1997 - Beard of Appeals
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: (Addressing the Chairman) Would you
like a house to be sited on the one lot or anything like that?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, because it's all goning to flow on where
the highest elevation is anyway. They can just superimpose the
postage stamp back on it if they want to, which is the building area.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Well, that's what I~m asking. Do you
want the building area to be superimposed on the map also?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK, thank you, that's al1 I wanted to
ask.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Bearing in mind that it's the request of the
applicant's attorney, are there any other questions from anybody on the
Board. Hearing no further questions 1'11 make a motion recessing
tentatively. We are recessing, this is firm, unless we get a change
based upon our request.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: You could always further recess if you
have to. Please ask them (audience) to check with us again about a
day or two before that. (Addressing audience) Would you call the
office about the 23rd of September and then we can tell you whether
it's still going to be on that night or another night?
MR.. RIEGER: Right.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We'll afford you time to look at the surveys
or whatever we get, you know, in reference to elevations.
MR. RIEGER: Well, I will be away in Europe at this particular period
of time so I will not be able to attend.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK.
MEMBER TORTORA: You can submit any written comments you want.
We're open to written comments until the closing of the hearing.
Anything you want to put in writing you're welcome to.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: But we'd have to have it by the 25th
of September.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Assuming he has something.
MR. : Can I leave the original photographs here too, would that
be part of the file?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes~ unless you want them back.
' PadRe~ 25 - Hearing rranscripts
~ A*agust 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
MR. : Well eventually, but I'd like to have them be part of the
submission -
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK. Well, the problem is that I saw that
you made one copy of it. OK, it didn't come out that great on the
copy machine.
MR. : I know that.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: The original is made part of the
record. If you wamt it back its -
MR. : Well, if its part of the record, that's fine.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right, that's the problem. There's a 100%
difference between the photocopy and the original.
BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: After 60 days after the Board makes
a decision, you could send the Board a letter asking to have it back
and then after 60 days they might be able to. Depends on what the
situation is then.
MR. : OK, I understand.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We thank you very much everyone for
coming in.
I offer that as a motion, ladies and gentlemen?
MEMBER DOYEN: Second.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ail in favor?
BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
~ Pefge~ 26 - Hearing ,ranscripts
.A~gust tiS, 1997 - Board of Appeals
PUBLIC HEARINGS, continued:
7:45 P.M. - Appl. No. 4502 - MOORE'S LANE DEVELOPMENT CORP.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Deck addition to condo unit g60 at 135 R60
Caleb's Way, Greenport, New York; County Parcel No. 1000-40-.1-1-60
due to proposed reduction in the front yard setback at less than 35
feet. Zone District: AHD. I have a copy of a survey indicating a deck
that is not attached at this time or was not when I looked at it on
condo ~60 and we'll ask the applicant the size of the deck is what?
MR. DICI{HOFF: 8 feet out from the house and 12 feet long.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And what is the side yard reduction?
MR. DICKHOFF: Well we're 36 feet off the road now, so it would be
down to 28 feet.
CttAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Could I have your name for the record?
MR. DICKHOFF: My name is Raymond Dickhoff. I'm the builder with
Pheasant Run.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is an open deck, it conforms to all the
other decks that are on most of the condos there?
MR. DICKFIOFF: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK. I had a discussion with the owner of
the property and he basically stated that it was a private road and it
service only those condos that are, you know, continuous to it and
he indicated to me that the deck would always remain open. I believe
that's in the C & Rs to the -
MR. DICKHOFF: Yes, it can't be encroached.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right, OK. I guess I'll go on to Mr.
Dinizio.
Any questions?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Ostermann?
MEMBER OSTERMANN: No questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora?
MEMBER TORTORA: No.
~Pa'~e~ 27 - Hearing ~ ~anseripts
~A~/gust 28, 1997 - Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Doyen?
MEMBER DOYEN: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody in the audience would like
to speak in favor? Anybody like to speak against? I think we have a
shoe in here but I don't know if we're going to vote on it right this
second. OK. We thank you very much for coming in.
MR. DICKHOFF: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Hearing no further comment I'll make a
motipn closing the hearing, reserving decision until later.
MEMBER OSTERMANN: Second.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor?
Motion Carried.
End of Hearings. I~ECEiVED AND FILED BY
THE SOUTHOZD
Town Ciezk, Town of ~"outhold
t