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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-12/12/1996 HEARING TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING DECEMBER 12, 1996 Prepared by Carol Kaelin, temp. typist Completed by Lucy Farrell, ZBA part-time typist 7:18 p.m. Appl. No. 4438 GUISEPPE & LAURIE COMO. This application for a Variance based upon the November 1996 Action of Disapproval by the Building Inspector under Article 111, Section 100-33C, in which applicant applied for a building permit to locate accessory building, and that yard area has been designated a second front yard. Location of Property: 265 Youngs Avenue, Southold, NY; Parcel ID #1000-61-4-38.2. CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a survey dated August 16, 1995 indicating a penned in area, or pencilled in area, in what I would construe to be the rear yard, because of the right of way, that runs along the rear of the property. The nature of the application, is that you have two front yards. The applicants requesting a 24 by 28 foot garage, and I have a copy of a Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. I have received two letters, that are presently in file for the board's review. Mr. Como, how are you tonight Sir? MR. GUISEPPE COMO: Good, how are you? CHAIRMAN: Good, thank you. What would you like to add for your application? MR. GUISEPPE COMO: I would like to say that, I was surprised that I have two front yards. When I first purchased the property a year ago, nothing was discussed of a rear yard, being a front yard, and when I applied for a CO for the shed, they called it a rear yard. They told me there would be no problem, putting a garage in the back, and we applied for a permit, they said we had two front yards, and I was just as surprised as anybody. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. GUISEPPE COMO: Basically, the garage is going to face East. The entrance is going to be from Young's Avenue. Ms. Evans asking me to move the garage three feet East, I would love to do that, but I have a tree on either side, and one on the South side of the garage and one on the East corner side. If I move the garage in any direction, I would have to move those trees, and I'm trying to save the trees. Page 2 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: OK. At no time you ever attempted to use any other access, but Young's Avenue. Is that correct. MR. GUISEPPE COMO: No. CHAIRMAN: approximately? And how high is this garage in height, MR. GUISEPPE COMO: feet, whatever. It's going to be standard height, 15 or 16 CHAIRMAN: OK. MR. GUISEPPE COMO: sentence) Whatever height to go out (unfinished CHAIRMAN: There's no second story on it. MR. GUISEPPE COMO: No. CHAIRMAN: OK, great. Let's start with Mr. Villa? MEMBER VILLA: Young's Avenue. I was wondering if it's clear, that you coming off MR. GUISEPPE COMO: Yes, that's where the entrance is going to be, right off Young's Avenue. I use the driveway for the house now. That's where I park the car now, so that's where the entrance way is going to be. CHAIRMAN: Is there any contention Bob, about the placement of the garage? MEMBER VILLA: (inaudible). CHAIRMAN: I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Mrs. Tortora? I'm sorry, go ahead? MEMBER TORTORA: What distance off the property line? MR. GUISEPPE COMO: It's going to be 9 feet from the side, and 37 feet from the rear property line. MEMBER TORTORA: Would you have any objections to a condition saying, that you would not use Mechanics Street for access? MR. GUISEPPE COMO: Mechanics Street. Not at all. I wouldn't have a way of using MEMBER TORTORA: That seems to be a concern. Page 3 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. GUISEPPE COMO: That would be fine with me. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I don't have any questions. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Doyen? MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN: OK, Is there anybody else that favor of this application? Anybody like application? Yes Sir. State your name for the would like to speak record? to speak in against the MR. ROBERT HUGHES: My name is Robert Hughes. I've been retained by Ms. Evans, to represent some of her opinions. Ms. Evans owns the property at 140 Mechanics Street, which is contiguous to the Como's, and it's probably the property most effected by the Como's on his application. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. ROBERT HUGHES: Ms. Evans rear property line, forms the Western most part of the Como's North boundary. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. ROBERT HUGHES: Judging from the way I could read the application, it appears that the garage will be about three feet to Ms. Evans property line, and almost as tall as her house. If constructed as proposed, it will have a dramatic impact on her property. Now, please understand, Ms. Evans is not opposed to the idea of the Como's building a garage. However, she does feel there is a need for some modification and compromise. As proposed, the garage is, she feel is out of character with the neighborhood. It's substantially larger and taller than any other garage or accessory building in the area. It would have a major impact on the amount of light and circulations of air in that neighborhood. In the spirit of compromise, in the hopes of maintaining good will with her neighbors, Ms. Evans has a couple of suggestions. It's her feeling that, it would not impose an unnecessary hardship on the Como's, if the size of the garage was slightly reduced, and we're suggesting perhaps to the size of the footprint and the height of the garage, of the Como's and Ms. Evans neighbor's, the Sheehy's. The Sheehy's own the property, that's on the Southwest corner of Mechanic and Young's Avenue. Their garage is as large as any garage in the neighborhood. So, the Sheehy's garage, according to his building permit, is 22 feet wide, and 24 feet deep. Page 4 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Now, if the Como's build a garage with this size footprint, and oriented it such that, the Southeast corner of this garage is still be where the Southeast corner of where they proposed, the 24 by 28 foot garage. The effect would be quite large for Ms. Evans in that, it would move the North side of the garage an additional two feet away from her rear property line, and it would move the West side of the garage, four feet to the East. This would move the gar"1ge more out of the site line from Ms. Evans back yard. It would make quite a difference to Ms. Evans. Now, Mr. Como has already assured Ms. Evans, that his garage, from my understanding, would be no taller than the Sheehy's garage. Now, 1 looked at the plans that was submitted by Mr. Como, and from my trying to figure out the scale, it appears that the mean or legal height of Mr. Como garage is 15 feet and the peak would be 20 feet. The Sheehy's garage, and 1 haven't gone over there to measure it because, I didn't go on their property, but I looked at it and counted rows of shingles. It appears to have more of a mean or legal height, or perhaps 12 feet, with a peak of 16. The building permit is not clear on this. The building permit says the roof is 8 feet high. If Mr. Como would change his plans for his garage, so that the legal height of the roof would be 12, with a peak of 16 and have a footprint of 22 by 24, Ms. Evans would withdrawer all further objections to the plan. Now, Mr. Como is actually set on the size and the height, and doesn't want to compromise. Ms. Evans has an additional solution or suggestion. It would lessen the impact on her (inaudible). MR. GUISEPPE COMO: Could I answer that please? CHAIRMAN: Do you want to answer that? MR. GUISEPPE COMO: On the height of the garage, those plans were not specifically how the signs were made. I went to Penny Lumber and asked them if they had ready made plans, 24 by 28, and they found one. The height of the garage, if the plans are saying 20 feet, they're incorrect. I'm not going to have a 20 foot high garage. The garage is going to be the bigger bit, the roof is going to be 16 feet. CHAIRMAN: OK, that's an (inaudible)Carol. MR. GUISEPPE COMO: It's going to be like a two Car garage. As far as 24 by 28, I have yard tools and things that I use for the yard, and plus I want to have two cars in there, and that's why it's four feet wider than the 24 by 22. CHAIRMAN: Well, when you told me you had (unfinished sentence). I met with you a couple of Saturday's ago, a Historical vehicle, that you wanted to Page 5 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. GUISEPPE COMEO: Right, correct. CHAIRMAN: OK. MR. GUISEPPE COMO: now, and I'd like to building a garage. I have a '35 Plymouth that's outside right put it inside. That is my main reason for CHAIRMAN: OK, it appears we've misused it. We're in the area of 16 feet. Go ahead and continue. MR. ROBERT HUGHES: She has another suggestion, OK, to try to lessen the impact of this garage on her property. Page 6 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals (remainder of transcript completed by Lucy Farrell) ROBERT HUGHES: She has another suggestion, OK, to try to lessen the impact of this garage on her property. Again, her primary motivation and desire is to have the garage moved away from the rear line and from her line of sight. She's already asked Mr. Como about moving the garage to the south and to the east and Mr. Como explained to her that it's not possible because there's a tree to the south and there's a tree to the east. I'd like to take each of these trees individually and as a separate item. First, the tree that is to the south is a large and very healthy Black Walnut tree. Ms. Evans can see it from her back yard and it's a wonderful magnificent tree. She has no desire to see it disturbed or damaged anymore than has already been by the taking for the footings, OK. She understands, that because of where the tree is, it's not logistically possible to move the garage to the south farther away from her rear property linb. On the other hand, the tree which is to the east of the proposed garage is a different matter. It's a much less impressive specimen. It's a Norway Maple about 6 inches in diameter and is located almost directly on top of the proposed foundation. It's very close to the proposed foundation. Earlier this week, the Comos allowed Ms. Evans' tree trimmers, Bartley, to go on to their property so that they could tender a tree which is right on the property line, a separate tree which is right on the property line between Ms. Evans and the Comos. While they were on the Comos' property, the Bartlett people noticed the condition of this Norway Maple and remarked on it to Ms. Evans. Now, I have with me the letter from Bartlett regarding that tree and with your indulgence I'd like to read it into the file and then I can give you and Mr. Como a copy of it. As dated, December 12th, it's from Bartlett Tree Experts in Southampton, to me, Robert Hughes, regarding the Norway Maple located at 265 Youngs Avenue, Southold. "Dear Mr. Hughes: While looking at a Linden Tree from Ms. Olivett at 140 Mechanic Street in Southold, I had an occasion to notice the above captioned tree. The tree in issue is a Norway Maple. A very common species of no particular importance. This tree appears to be a volunteer tree that has not been intentionally planted. The tree is located in your excavation site. The roots of this tree have been severely damaged by the machinery used for the excavation. In my opinion the health and stability of this tree have been severely compromised and the tree needs to be removed to avoid problems down the road. If you wish to discuss this further, please contact me at our Southampton office. Sincerely, Dean Dyckman, ISA Certified Parties." Now, if the tree was not there, the garage could be moved to the east. This again, would greatly reduce the impact on Ms. Evans. Now, Ms. Evans is very appreciative of the benefits of all of the trees in the neighborhood. She is reluctant to be the cause of the loss of any tree. She works in the City and when she comes out here she likes to see trees. In this vein she has a proposal. If the Comos would take down the Norway Maple and move the garage just 4 feet to the Page 7 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Sout!J.old Town Board of Appeals east, Ms. Evans will pay for the purchase and planting of a neW tree, of the same species, anywhere on the Comos' property that they choose. Now, Ms. Evans respectfuJly submits, that if the garage is built as presently proposed, she will bear an unfair and disproportion large part of this burden on the neighborhood. She requests that the Board scale down the size of the project, and/or move the garage to the east, and Ms. Evans wiJl replace the Norway Maple, at her own expense. She would also like an assurance from the Board, that the garage cannot be used for dweJling purposes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can I just ask the width of Ms. Evans' property? I can't read it off the tax map. MR. HUGHES: I think it's about 50 feet. CHAIRMAN requesting, property. GOEHRINGER: Alright. is a 37 to 42 foot move. So, what she's basicaJly Approximately from the rear MR. HUGHES: If it was a - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 37. MR. HUGHES: 37 foot, yes. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It's 41. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 41? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes. 41 feet. MR. HUGHES: You know, she understands they have constraints but anything that can be done to move it out of the site line because it's a large proposal would be much appreciated. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Como, what would you like to say? MR. COMO: WeJl, I don't see no difference as moving it 4 feet, making a lot of difference for light, or air circulation or I don't feel that the garage is going to block the light or is going to block any air circulation. I don't feel that it's right that I should remOVe a tree that is mature that's already been there for 10-15 years and it's a tree that I like to keep it. You know, to remove it, you can't replace it, the same tree. It would be a smaJler tree. It would take another 10 years for it to grow to the same size as that. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you gentlemen. Is Could you just a - Alright. We'JI see what else develops. there anybody else would like to speak a Page 8 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals UNKNOWN PERSON: Well, I'd like to add to this. I'd replace the tree with a tree certainly comparable to it, if another species. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Are you Ms. Evans? MS. EVANS: Yes. (She is the person speaking above as indicated by Unknown Person) CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do Ma'am? MS. EVANS: Hi. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: May I suggest that you people all speak and your neighbors and you get along and so on and so forth. MS . EVANS: Right. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Why don't you see if there's some other agreement that maybe you can work out for about 20 minutes or so and we'll wrap this up in about 20 minutes or so. Maybe there's something else that you can think of that you might want to deal with and rather than close the hearing and have us make the ultimate decision, maybe there's something that we can work out. MS. EVANS: OK. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is that alright with you, Mr. Como? MR. COMO: Yes, that's fine. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This has worked out relatively past. Hopefully, it will work out relatively well tonight. recess the hearing for about 20 minutes and we thank you. well in the So, we'll MR. COMO: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I need that as a resolution or I offer as a resolu tion. Motion Carried. 8:12 P.M. - COMO Hearing Reconvened MR. COMO: We've come to an agreement that I would put in strokes on the north side of the garage, and the garage is going to be 9 feet away from the property line, and it's not going to be any higher than 15 feet. MEMBER TORTORA: To the peak? Page 9 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. COMO: To the peak of the garage and we agreed to that. MEMBER VILLA: The size is going to remain the same? MR. COMO : Yes, 24 x 28 is the size of the garage. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: When we say 24 x 28, we're talking, let me get to the survey one second. MR. COMO: 24 is the front and 28 is deep. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: is the deep, right. MEMBER TORTORA: on the service slip. And it will be in the same shape as it's shown The shrubs give you the distance on the shrubs? MR. COMO: The shrubs are going to be on the north side of the garage, between the garage and the property line facing Mrs. Evans. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And we're still talking the 37 feet from what I construe to be rear, but we have two front yards. So, if I was to write this as a decision, I would say that we would grant the application as applied for, 37 feet from the rear property line, which is really a front yard. 9 feet from the northerly property line. Well, we got a problem here, and that's the reason why I'm doing this. We have an overhang on the garage. The building itself is 9 feet, but, the overhang is probably a foot. So, the overhang is going to intrude into that 9 foot area. So, I'm just mentioning this. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: setback. That's not normally counted as a CHAIRMAN telling you. site, is that GOEHRINGER: And all water correct? It's not counted as a setback, I'm just from the garage would be contained on the MR. COMO: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The shrubs will be planted for the distance, equally distance between the garage and the property line, for the distance of the garage which is 28 feet, is that correct? MR. COMO: You mean the whole garage? I explained to Ms. Evans that I would put the shrubs on the north part of the garage and the sides from the rear yard from her side so that she would not see the rear part of the garage. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: OK, just to that portion, do we have any idea what that distance is? Page 10 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. COMO: It's about 12 feet, approximately. There is a large tree on the corner of the property and that would be approximately about 4 feet. So, I'm going to put shrubs on the whole north side of the garage that Ms. Evans would see from her rear yard. MR. HUGHES: I think it would be about - well, if Ms. Evans is lot is 50 feet wide, we've got a 37 foot setback, we're talking about 12 or 13 feet. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: shrubs be Mr. Como? 12 or 13 feet, OK. How big would these MR. COMO: say probably know - Well, I'm going, I haven't selected them, but I would about 6 - 8 feet. They're going to grow to be you CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So, you're going to put them probably 6 - 8 feet about too, so that they don't grow into each other? MR. COMO: Well, I would say about 4 feet apart, yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 4 feet apart. MEMBER VILLA: Something like arborvitae so that they don't get too wide. MR. COMO: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And the garage not exceed 15 feet to the peak and that the garage not be used for any habitable purposes and contain only the utility of electricity? MR. COMO: Correct. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: gentlemen? Alright. Anybody else, ladies and MEMBER TORTORA: A venue. In the conditioning, access only from Youngs CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Access only from Youngs Avenue. I offer it as a resolution. Hearing ended. (See minutes for Resolution). ~'''.L. ............1 ~...., .......... J.....~ ~A_· ~ _A~.] '1.----------. Page 11 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southo1d Town Board of Appeals 7:35 P.M. - AppJ. No. 4450 - ANTHONY SILVESTRI CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is a request for Variance based upon the November 25, 1996 Action and Disapproval of the Building Inspector under Art. XXIV, Sec. 100-244B, in which a permit application was approved under Permit #23608Z for a new dwelling at side yards of 12 ft. & 12.5 ft., and upon receipt of a foundation survey, construction was halted in order to proceed with an application for a variance, for the reduction of the side yard (confirmed as built at 13 ft. rather than the Code's required 15 feet. The location of the property is 2175 Harbor Lane, Cutchogue, N.Y. Tax Map ID #1000-136-1-15. Parcel according to Roderick Van Tuyl, as surveyed dated June 12, 1996 is a lot of approximately 75 x 125 and it indicates as the foundation survey at 13 and 13. I have a copy of the County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody like to be heard? How are you Sir? Happy Holidays to you, how are you? MR. CARDINALI: Mr. Silv<1!stri asked me to appear on his behalf. I have the affidavit of posting. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Just give your name Phil, if you would. MR. CARDINALE: Phil Cardinale, Main Road, Jamesport, N.Y. I want to thank the Board for hearing this matter this evening. I also just refer the Board to the written application the circumstances of the problem developing pretty clearly set forth. We submitted it with balanced side lines they approved and then it was determined that they should actually be 15 - 10. I want to make myself available for any questions the Board may have and I ask or appreciate if the Board would make a determination this evening if possible. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We'll start with Mr. Doyen. Mr. Doyen, do you have any questions? . MEMBER DOYEN: No questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, none at all. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Villa? MEMBER VILLA: No, I just need the record to show that basically the side lines do conform, I mean could conform, that just it was a mistake and I don't see any problem. Page 12 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: While you're standing there Phil, is there anybody else in the audience would like to speak in favor of this application? Is there anybody like to speak against the application? Anything further for the record? MR. CARDINALE: simply an error. No, except to note that as Mr. Villa said, this was We would have done it the other way. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: resolu tion? Is there anybody would like to offer a MEMBER TORTORA: I would. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All in favor? Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 13 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:42 P.M. - Appl. No. 4439 - KID N' ROUND by THERESA WALKER (Owner of Property: Anthony Pirrera). CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is an application for a Special Exception for occupancy-use of a rental unit in an existing business center located at 46455 County Road 48, Southold, for occupancy as a commercial recreational facility, and uses normally accessory and incidental to commercial recreation, as provided by Art. X. Sec. 100-10IB(6) of the Zoning Code. Location of the Property: Unit #8, 46455 C. R. 48, Southold, N. Y. County Tax Map District 1000-55-2-21 & 22. We have a copy of the survey of the shopping center and the indication. Ms. Walker will tell us approximately the size that she is utilizing and so on and so forth. MS. WALKER: It's 8,000 sq. ft. It's #5. which is 28 feet from the front to the back and I don't have the exact dimensions of that. There's a wall inside then there's a small - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ok. What brought you to this site? MS. WALKER: 1 have been doing this program for two years. I was only affiliated with a health club and then I shared a space with a karate studio and exercise studio. I have been working - I have four children. The oldest is 18 and the youngest is 4 and it has always been my, you know, just to have a fun and quality parent-child time and I've always sought out programs like this and it's just, you know now, doing it at the different locations. I just found, you know, being with somebody else it's just too hard. You know like when I shared the karate studio he would grow and I would grow. It was like conflicts of time. We got into different conflicts and then 1 was in with a nursery school and day care center and of course Southold School took over so I left there and now I've just been hanging and waiting to get the negotiations worked out so I can into my own place and I feel it's small enough yet big enough and - CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is truly a business operation though? This is not not-for-profit or anything of that natu,re? MS. WALKER: No, it's a business. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It's a business, right? I mean so you couldn't utilize a municipal hall or anything of that nature, unless they actually rented it to you I guess. I mean if there was some municipal piece of property that had a building on it, you couldn't utilize that because you're actually renting it. Is that correct? MS . WALKER: Right. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The reason why I asked that question is because municipal property is tax exempt and when you rent it it Page 14 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals would have to go back on a tax list. question. That's why I asked the MS. WALKER: When I was affiliated with the day care center for the church I was really working for them. That's the extent of it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, we'll start with Mr. Villa. MEMBER VILLA: The only concern that I might have, is that how many children or parent would be arriving or ( ) because this is on a main highway? MS. WALKER: These are parent They're hour sessions. child instructional classes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The parent stays? MS. WALKER: The parent stays. There are some programs that are 90 minutes where the parent don't stay, but, it's me and another instructor and maybe (inaudible-coughing). We do just instructions and play and what I call creative imaginative play. We do things like the three little pigs. We build a house. You know one child puts the walls in, you know. MEMBER VILLA: No, I was just trying to vision how many cars might be coming in and out on an hourly basis. MS. WALKER: There would really be no more than 15 - 18 kids per session. MEMBER VILLA: So you might have 15 - 18 cars arriving, let's say 9: 00 o'clock in the morning and dropping off and leaving. MS. WALKER: Right, unless they stay for bagels or pizza, which isn't likely. MEMBER VILLA: I just was wondering about the traffic. MS. WALKER: The parking there is adequate. It really is. There's plenty of space around the back, the side, or in the front and you know, with the bagel space the traffic is continuous, it's in and out. MEMBER VILLA: You're not going to have a rear entrance though, are you? MS. WALKER: No. Emergency, security only. MEMBER VILLA: That would be my only concern, be the traffic situation. I have no other questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Mrs. Tortora? Page 15 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER TORTORA: No, that was my question. I would like to know if there are number of letters in support of this application for the record? MS. WALKER: What? MEMBER TORTORA: this application. There are a number of letters in support for MS. WALKER: Yes, yes. MEMBER TORTORA: I just wanted to enter that for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, she answered my question too. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Doyen? MEMBER DOYEN: No questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, while you're standing there is there anybody else in the audience would like to speak in favor of the application? Anybody like to speak against? Motion was made to close the hearing. See Minutes for Resolution. Page 16 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:17 P.M. - Appl. NO. 4437 - DAVID AND BONNIE PASCOE CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Special Exception request to establish professional office as principal use on first floor of building located in this Residential-Office (RO) Zone District, as provided by Article VII, Section 100-71B(2). Location of Property: 51100 Main Road, Southold, N.Y.; Parcel #1000-70-2-7. Certificate of Occupancy confirms existing use of building to be a single-family with accessory home professional office. MR. BROWN: prepared the evening. My name is Robert Brown, I'm an architect and I application for the Pascoes who couldn't be here this CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What would you like to teil us. MR. BROWN: Not a whole lot. I think it's pretty self-explanatory. If there are any questions I'd like to try and answer them, that's why I here for. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I read the application about three weeks ago and I apologize. What is the second story presently used for now? MR. BROWN: Basicaily it's empty, some storage. MEMBER TORTORA: Proposed usage is accessory storage? MR. BROWN: Storage. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: anyway, right? Dr. Pasco has been there for some time MR. BROWN: Yes. It has a C.O. as a home office. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: any questions? We'll start with Mr. Doyen. Mr. Doyen, MEMBER DOYEN: No questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio, any questions? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, only that, he's not going to live there. He wants it just as an office? MR. BROWN: Yes, he just wants it as his office. MEMBER DINIZIO: And upstairs, just supplies? MR. BROWN: It'il be empty, basically. Page 17 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: Right, alright. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: The Planning Board sufficient parking? Yes. Office use in a residential office district? did a waiver of site plan on this and found MR. BROWN: A waiver of site plan. Yes they did. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Villa? MEMBER VILLA: I have no questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: While you're standing there, is anybody in the audience that would like to speak in favor or against this application? Seeing no hands, is there anybody like to offer a resolution. MEMBER DOYEN: So moved. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Second. All in favor? Motion carried. See Minutes for Resolution closing hearing. Page 18 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:20 P.M. - Appl. No. 4440 - ADLYN SYVERSON CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is a Variance based upon the October 7, 1996 Action of Disapproval of the Building Inspector wherein applicant has requested a permit to build extension to dwe11ing at 420 Private Road #17, off Camp Mineola Road, Mattituck, N. Y.; Parcel #1000-123-6-17 (now 17.1) Under Article XXIV, Section 100-244B proposed construction wi11 have an insufficient westerly side setback and total side yards for the 27, 029+-sf lot located in an R-40 Zone District. DAN WEST: I'm Dan West. I'm a Builder and friend of Adlyn who couldn't be here tonight, she's trave11ing to Florida and she's trying to build a room for a washer and dryer which is in the basement now and she is trying to get it up topside and her daughter is moving back in with her so it'd be a bedroom and washer and dryer area, and it encroaches - her sister owns the adjacent property. It's actua11y good for Adlyn. Some sisters don't get along but they get along very well. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We know this property real well. had many, many, many, variances on it. We've MR. WEST: We11, it's a weird shape piece of land. encroaching and she just hoping we can build this. So, we're CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Before we actua11y divide the property, Mr. Vi11a requested the Health Department approvals on both parcels so we do know the history of it. We'11 start with Mr. Vi11a. Any questions, Mr. Vi11a? MEMBER VILLA: We11 basica11y, the way it looks I have some things. From the dimensions here, it looks like it's going to be 14 feet 7 inches from that property line? MR. WEST: Right. MEMBER VILLA: And the southerly towards the water is 17 feet? The existing is 17. MR. WEST: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: That would be 21 from the other corner? MR. WEST: Right. MEMBER VILLA: dimensions? And that's basica11y it, and those three sound MR. WEST: Yes. Page 19 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: No, so you would have a total on - I guess this would be the east side of 14.7 and the other side would be 10 feet, 10 feet to the a - MR. WEST: Yes, the shortest point is 10 and I believe it's 13.3. MEMBER TORTORA: Not 14.7. MR. WEST: Well, it's 14.7, yes. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: feet, total. It's already non-conforming at 30 MEMBER TORTORA: this, Linda? Had we granted a prior on the side yard on MEMBER VILLA: We created it. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: The Zoning Board created it in-. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, the cottage was there. The cottage was there, but we allowed it to be was go from a seasonal cottage to a year round. The thing that is unique about this, is it's very simply just filling in the area, which is basically the front porch. I understand it does create a ( ) setback, but I'm just saying that it's very simply filling in an area. MEMBER TORTORA: parcel? Why, that we had a lot of variances on this BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: for a setback variance, Lydia. It was never really referred over CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: of maybe angled it be here actually. No, just that we did create that line. We should with the angle of the house and you wouldn't even BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: That's right. MEMBER DINIZIO You're just filling in that space. MR. WEST: Yes, I wasn't going out. She wanted to go out even a little further, but I said, just keep it even with the house and square it off. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It's about a 2 foot variance really. Page 20 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. WEST: Yes, two feet and a couple of inches. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: And a couple of inches. MEMBER DINIZIO: That's all I have. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Doyen? MEMBER DOYEN: No questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: While you're standing there anybody like to speak for or against this application? hands, is there anybody like to make amotion? MEMBER DINIZIO: I'll make a motion, we'll grant as applied. MEMBER DOYEN: Second. Motion carried - See Minutes for Findings and Resolution. again, Seeing is no Page 21 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:25 P.M. - Appl. No. 4441 - FRED AND RUTH ROSSI CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: A Variance is requested under Article IlIA, Section 100-30A.4 and Section 100-33, based upon the November 7, 1996, Action of Disapproval by the Building Inspector for placement of an accessory (shed) building in an area other than the required rear yard, at 265 Brigantine Drive, Southold, N. Y.; Harbor Lights Estates, Section One, Lot 32, Parcel #1000-79-4-45. I have a copy of the survey indicating this prehistoric house in the woods over in Southold and the nature of the application again is this storage building which appears to be 8 x 8 in the rear yard, but basically in the front yard because there's a right-of-way in the back which services several houses and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Would you like to be heard, Sir, how are you? Please state your name for the record. MR. ROSSI: My name is Fred Rossi. The reason why I want to put the shed back there is I don't want to put it on the side of the house in the front of the house because I think it would take away from my property. Not only that, the people in back of me on Paradise Shores, faces my second front yard. Their houses I would say are 5 - 10 feet above the middle of my rear yard so that we don't in any way hinder or be an eyesore. I'm going to put it in 15 feet from the north side and 15 feet from the east off the property line and the north east corner of the property line. MEMBER TORTORA: Could you say that again Mr. Rossi because our map shows 8 and 15. Just give me the dimensions again of the property line. MR. ROSSI: It will be 15 from the rear of the property line and 15 feet from the north or side of the property. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So, it's 15 feet in on both sides? MR. ROSSI: Right, and in between our property where it ends right now because you have a wooden area with approximately 10 feet and big trees and brush. So, the people in Paradise Shores would in no way have any eyesore and we are year round residents and all of the people of our surroundings are summer residents. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 12? For the record, the storage shed is 10 x MR. ROSSI: Yes. I think we originally said we 18 feet in from the property line on each side. it's going to be 15. were going to put it I measured it now, CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 15, good, that's even better. Page 22 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: What's the height on that, Jerry? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The height we have at 10 feet. MR. ROSSI: Right. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And are any utilities proposed in the building at all? MR. ROSSI: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No electricity? MR. ROSSI: Well, I'm probably going to put electric in. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No water or anything. with Mr. Doyen. Any questions of Mr. Rossi? OK, we'll start MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I have no questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Villa? MEMBER VILLA: I just wonder, do you have any particular color you're going to have? Is it going to blend in? MR. ROSSI: Yes, it's already painted a green with a - like a cream that's trimmed around the windows. MEMBER TORTORA: Just to note that it's because of its right-of-way, that it's been determined that it is in the front yard. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: While you're standing there we'll see if anybody else has any questions. Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor or against this application? Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion granting as applied for. Hearing ended. (See Minutes for Resolution and Findings). Page 23 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:32 P.M. - Appl. No. 4442 - COSTAS AND MARY CAVIRIS CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is a request for a Waiver under Article II, Section 100-26 concerning a vacant lot identified as 1000-106-2-35, which has been deemed merged in the October 11, 1996 Action of Disapproval by the Building Inspector. The adjoining parcel which is included in the merger determination is identitied as a house lot, parcel #1000-106-2-40. These lots are shown on the Map of Captain Kidd Estates approved in 1948 by the Southold Town Board. Present Zone District: R-40 Residential. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area and a copy of the original subdivision map indicating this property which is basically the tax map and a survey from Young and Young indicating the house lot as lot #131 and the lot which is requesting to be setoff as lot #126 of the subdivision. Yes, Ms. Moore how are you tonight? PATRICIA MOORE: Good evening, fine, thank you. Unfortunately Mr. & Mrs. Caviris could not be here this evening, their on a second honeymoon. John Caviris is here this evening and is prepared to answer any questions that you may have. I have some letters from property owners in the area and I don't know if they sent you the originals. I have what appear to be photocopies. Do you have them in your file Linda? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: right on top. Jerry has the file. It would be MS. MOORE: Alright, I wanted to confirm that you have it as part of your file. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I can't say. the file. I'll tell you what I have Pat. We there are no letters that came in on this file. Let me just borrow have the search, no, MS. MOORE: OK, I'll give you these. These are the photocopies. I have a feeling they sent me the copies and kept the originals. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK, thank you, kept the originals, sometimes that happens. MS. MOORE: We're here this evening because of the merger of the two properties. Mr. & Mrs. Caviris bought the property which is Captain Kidd Drive, Lot 40, in 1982. In 1985, they were able to buy the property that adjoins from the rear and faces Central Drive in 1985. They never anticipated nor intended that the properties merged. Whoever represented them at the time was not aware of those Zoning Ordinance and were not able keep the properties in separate names. They have from the beginning, the date that they purchased this property, received tax bills, separate tax bills. They Page 24 - December 12, 1996 Hearings SoulÎ1old Town Board of Appeals have most recently on their house, which is built on lot 40, on Captain Kidd Drive had additions, or an addition placed on it and renovation and they were very careful that the renovation would be kept at the appropriate legal setback from their property line. The property line of lot 40. Had they intended to merged the properties they could have expanded their house and included - gone beyond the setback of that property and extended into lot 35. From your inspection of the area you can see that this area of Captain Kidd Estates is a very developed area with very small lots, all consistent in size and properties are being developed left and right and really the Caviris had no idea that they were going to be faced with this problem until the builder who just happens to be our landlord, Bob Hiltz was saying, well they inquiring as to building a house with their son, on lot 35, and when he realized that the property was in the same name, I think we trained him now long enough that we said, let's find out and make sure that these properties are single and separate. So, the problem came up really unexpectedly and without any intent to merged these properties. I really don't have other information. I have John Caviris who can give a little bit more detail on the intentions of his family and he said it when he welcomed me in the hallway. I said, well why don't you come up and they can hear it from you and can hear from you and you can explain what the Cavirises, what their intention was from the time they acquired these properties. JOHN CAVIRIS: Good evening everybody. My name is John Caviris. My father is an old fashioned guy. He's from Greece, an immigrant and his intentions are to bequeath his estate equally to all of his children. That's the reason for the purchase of the second lot. My brother was going to take the house that's existing, or my sister actually. My brother was going to get a house built behind the second lot. Unfortunately, and no disrespect to Southold, I'd like to go upstate. So I'm going to try and purchase a house up in the Cats kills. But, no disrespect to Southold, I still come out here in the summer, and we have a great time and that's basically it. He did buy the property separately with the intent to build the second house for my brother in the near future. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: While you're there, let's see if there are any questions. Mr. Doyen? MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizío? MEMBER DINIZ!O: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: No. Page 25 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Villa? MEMBER VILLA: Yes. I have some questions. When I visited the site, there's a severe grading problem that's going to be presented with this. I would of, you know, if I bought the house like your Dad did, I would have done everything I could to buy the house behind me so no one would build there because you're going to have water falls coming down that hill if they, you know, improve that property. So, I have problems. The lot is small, it's only 12,000 sq. ft. You're going to have a grading problem. There's no question about it and even looking at the sale price in 1985 only $15.000 that does not really reflect the cost of a building lot at that time. So, I get the impression that this, you know, the person that sold it, didn't have the idea that it was a building lot and I would have purchased it just for protection so no-one would build back there. MR. CA VIRIS: No, the reason he bought it was, his intent was to build out. We do know there is a grade and if and when we do build, it's going to be rectified. Whatever has to be done, retain the wall, whatever has to be done by an architect, we're going to have to take of it. There is another house right next door to us. They have the same elevation. There are another two houses back to back, right next door to us and they've done whatever they had to do to rectify that problem. I don't know anything about building or architectural anything like that, but, I'm definitely sure that they will rectify that problem when the time comes. As for the purchase price, the gentleman we bought the property from would be the same person we bought the house from and he was an elderly gentleman. He lived down in Florida, he had just lost his wife I think in 85, and this is the price it came to. I mean he's very, you know, this is just the price they settled on and he decided to sell for that amount of money and that's that. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you, Sir. MS. MOORE: If I can add some information, I was there when I posted the property and I've looked at the grade and I said, oh, it's severe. But then, when I looked at the property directly to the north, but if you look to the left, the big house that's a two, that's a split-level, the properties look like they could be identical by way of the grade and the house is magnificent, the house right to the left, in a single-and separate-search, I noted, that the properties that are identical as far as grade were in 86 and in 77, Stavrinos, the same property owners, they were - so you have two houses that were built, excuse me, two properties that were bought at different times, by different people and they had houses built on it. So, in this whole area there is a very ethnic area and it's a cultural. I think all of us - I would like to leave land for all of my children, it is very significant to the parents to be able to leave a piece of property. Property is everything. Leave a piece of property to Page 26 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southo1d Town Board of Appeals each child and you will find that right next door, the Stavrinos who was the owner in 86 and is a - who bought in 86 and then 77 they built houses on both those properties and the terrain is really identical. So, yes, there is an incline there, but, it certainly doesn't prevent any construction and with the proper house it does lend itself to a split level and with ( ?) drainage to make sure that - obviously that his house is protected from any runoff, Those issues can be addressed during construction. You wouldn't want to pledge your own house when you're building a house for one of your children that wouldn't make any sense. You had another question? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, yes, we haven't gotten your Affidavit of Posting. MS. MOORE: Yes, I'm sorry. I have it here and I realize I left the office without notarizing it. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Oh, that's alright. If you signed it, I know your signature. That's fine, thank you. MS. MOORE: Yes, I was physically the one who posted it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, is there anyone else in the audience would like to speak either in favor or against this application? See no hands, I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. Would anyone like to second it. Motlon Carried - See Minutes for Resolution. Page 27 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:45 P.M. - Appl. No. 4444 - ROSWITHA AICHINGER CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is a Variance for gazebo, "as built" in its present location, based upon the November 13, 1996 Action of Disapproval by the Building Inspector, and Article XXIII, Section 100-239.4A(1). Location of Property: 29827 Private Road off the northerly side of Main Road, Orient, N.Y.: Parcel #1000-14-2-p/o 1.1 (now 1.8). I have a survey furnished to us by Young and Young, dated August 31, 1984, indicating this rather large lot of which sits a contemporary type house and the nature of this application which is a gazebo at approximately just to the southerly portion of the lip of the bluff and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Who would like to be heard? Mr. McLaughlin, how are you tonight? J. KEVIN McLAUGHLIN, ESQ: Very good thank you. I'm Kevin McLaughlin. I'm the attorney for Mrs. Aichinger. Basically, the Aichingers bought this property in 1988, at which time the gazebo was already placed upon the property. I've tried to go back and find out exactly when that gazebo got on the property and unfortunately, I can't give you an exact date. I have tracked down the prior owner a Robert Wagner, and I've spoken with him and he's indicated that the gazebo was built the year after the house was built. The house was built in 1983/84 and the CO was issued in 1984. He indicates to me that he has no records available as to exactly when the gazebo was brought on the property. Basically what was done, was pilings were put in, the gazebo was built off site and then brought on. The person who did it, worked for Lindell. I'm unable to track down who that person is. Mr. Lindell is no longer in the area. But, it seems relatively certain, that the gazebo was placed on the property sometime in the year of 1985, which is significant because from a - what I've been able to determine the first time that there was a setback from the bluff in the Southold Town Code, the 100 foot setback from the top of the bluff, was March 26, 1985. I can't guaranty you that this was put on the property before that, but, it was put on at or about that time. There has always been a swimming pool and a surrounding deck put on the property, which there was also a building permit and a CO issued. Mr. Wagner assured me that he was told there was no need for any kind of permit or any kind of CO for this kind of structure. I don't know about you, but I've had lots of people that have come to me and have told me similar things with sheds and gazebos. That's what they get told and that's what they do or don't do. A gazebo is located approximately 10 foot from the top of the bluff. The property is in contract for sale and we're here to see if we can get approval for the gazebo as built sometime in 1985. Page 28 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright. I'll give my opinion later. We'll start with Mr. Doyen. MEMBER DOYEN: No, I have no questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: then issued? There wasn't any building permit or anything MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Absolutely not. MEMBER DINIZIO: And we say it's just put on pilings? MR. McLAUGHLIN: painted. There are cement pilings there which are CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: They're actually piers. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: It's very close to the bluff. You know that. MR. McLAUGHLIN: I measured it myself. It is close. MEMBER TORTORA: And structurally, do you have any information that it's stil1 structurally sound, no cracks, nothing? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It looks good. MR. McLAUGHLIN: structure. I'm no expert. It appears to be a well-built MEMBER TORTORA: Would you object to a condition that any alterations, change, or anything, you will have to come back? MR. McLAUGHLIN: No. MEMBER TORTORA: Any change whatsoever? MR. McLAUGHLIN: I think that's more than reasonable. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Any structural alteration, other than paint or replacement of the roof or rotted boards, or something of that nature, that's it. MR. McLAUGHLIN: I think that that's entirely fair. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Villa? Page 29 - December 12, 1996 Hearings Southo1d Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: Yes, I was going to say the same thing because looking at it and removing it, you might do more damage environmentally than to leave it there. So, I was going to say, leave it there for its life and then when if it's ever going to be addressed, then you take it down and rebuild it. MR. ALICHINGER: As of tomorrow afternoon, it wíll no longer be my problem. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, while you're standing there, is there anybody in the audience who would like to speak for or against this application? Seeing no hands who would like to make a motion including in that motion the - and I'm not teJlíng you how to write the motion, but the information that we just caveated. MEMBER TORTORA: I'll make the motion. I'll make to approve it as built provided however, that any structural alteration or changes other than routine maintenance, painting, replacing a board that it should be moved within the designated setback- to the designated setback 100 feet. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I didn't see any electricity in that. MR. McLAUGHLIN: I don't believe so. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: electricity, no utílíty. Alright, and that it continue with no Motion Carried - See Minutes for Resolution. End of Hearing. \ - ..... ...., 1- '1'~,"·-i :='(,____ r;- -I r:..-(~ _ ~ J . .. ("., <:- ,\ ,"-J....t-'~. -' "" ~ .-¡! I , ¿¡1111f! ;}/C- _ ----- -, - TRANSCRIPT OF DECEMBER 12, 1996 HEARING SOUTHOLD TOWN ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS 7:48 p.m. Appl. No. 4429 Special Exception application by LILCO. Carryover from 11/14/96. Proposed gas compressor station. 7:48 p.m. Appl. No. 4430 - Variance application by LILCO. Carryover from 11/14/96, Proposed fence height up to 8 ft. from lowest finished ground level. CHAIRMAN: This is a carryover from the last hearing so we're not reading the legal notice, JAN GARGLIANO (LILCO): Good evening, Mr. Goehringer and members of the Board. CHAIRMAN: How do you do? MR. GARGLIANO: My name is Jan Gargliano. I've been asked by Mr. Fitzgerald, who was previously here before the Board, to fill in for Mr. Fitzgerald who is on vacation. I'm accompanied this evening by Mr. Robert Hogg who is the Gas Engineer with LILCO's Gas Engineering Department to address whatever concerns the Board may have in terms of the application we've made for special exception for the gas compressor station and 8 ft. fence. CHAIRMAN: O.K. Is there anything you'd like to mention supplemental to the record of the last meeting? MR. GARGLIANO: No sir, there isn't. CHAIRMAN: No, there isn't. O.K. Mr. Hogg, is there anything that you want to add? MR. ROBERT HOGG (LILCO): Well, other than we followed up on a couple of the concerns that were raised the last time. As you know, we invited yourself and Mrs. Mellendér to the site where we do have a similar size compressor. There was some concern about the noise level. I believe you took some sound measurements yourself to confirm that it is a fairly quiet machine and you know, just to see what one of them looks like. I believe you 'n find it fairly... (inaudible) . CHAIRMAN: That is correct. I can only compare it to a compressor that you would put a quarter in at a 7-11 and blow up the tire on your car. That's approximately the noise that I could compare it to. So, there was nothing offensive. The building itself for the structure itself was not offensive and the construction that you're planning, which is basically a Page 2 - Transcript of Hearing Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals bunker type of construction. My only question is: How far does the underpinning go down to support the pad that the structure stands on? MR. HOGG: We had some tests done mechanics. soil borings done by soil CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. HOGG: I believe there are some concerns about the top layer of the soil there. They went down 45 ft.; it's our intention to put in metal or steel pilings 50 ft. deep - 8 pilings for our compressor. CHAIRMAN: O.K. For the public and for the Board, the unit that I had seen, which is approximately twice the size of the units that they're going to put in - two of which we're getting or we're anticipating - sit on cement pads and the pads themselves are, I would say, 6" thick - 6 to 8" thick and so the purpose of my question is: What's holding those pads up and that's what I'm asking - this particular area right in here. MR. HOGG: Like I said, 8 pilings per compressor. CHAIRMAN: O.K. Right. There have been major concerns, not necessarily directed to this Board, but to other boards - in greater importance, to the Town Board, regarding some of the activity that appears to be on the fringe of this property. There has been some soil that's been pushed over to the edge of this property. I was with the owner this afternoon. We looked at the property and which does not necessarily impact this property, what you're anticipating, but it does touch or fringe on the edge of the property and I don't know to what degree anybody is going to come before us tonight to discuss any portion of that and at this point, we'll see what develops there. I understand that you did meet, at our suggestion, with - or sent a letter to the Mattituck Fire Department because these nice people had concerns regarding this. Alright? MR. HOGG: Myself and Mr. Fitzgerald and two other representatives from our local office did meet with the Fire Commissioner in Mattituck about two weeks ago. CHAIRMAN: O.K. What did they tell you? MR. HOGG: We basically showed them the plan and what our intentions were to do. They raised no objections other than, if and when the site is complete, to visit the site and have a walkdown with the operating people. CHAIRMAN: O. K. For the record, tl1Í.s compressor - the purpose of this compressor is to boost the gas flow, is that correct? MR. HOGG: Exactly. It's going to basically feed right back into the same 60 lb. system. It's to reinforce the system on the North Fork and hopefully make gas more available to the people out here. ~,._.._"'--- .--...""..---".....- ----_.~.- '-<¥.,~,..;...,~_... Page 3 - Transcript of Hearing Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: Alright, we'll see what develops during the hearing. We thank you very much. We appreciate it. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of the application? (No one wished to speak.) CHAIRMAN: Who would like to express their concerns, either you or AI? MRS. MELLENDER: Yes, I guess my main concern is safety and I had spoken with Mr. Fitzgerald and I told him that I was wondering if you had planned that you would set up - and I said I'm not coming here to surprise you and I'm not coming here to make it look like I'm antagonistic toward this but, as a person who lives here, I have a major concern about an unmanned station and how long it would take someone to get here and what the emergency procedures were. Did you prepare anything? MR. HOGG: I can only tell you that any emergency procedures, we deal with the fire department. We always have people in our Riverhead yard which is, I think, 7 miles from the site. Riverhead is a regular operation center for us. MRS. MELLENDER: Do you have a written-up procedure like, if something happens, tell me about the shut-down - how this machinery shuts down or how long it should take someone to get here from Riverhead to work on this. We're an island - if there should be a big problem: how will we get off it? What is your plan for us and, if there should be some sort of a problem here - I didn't want to spring this on you. I told Mr. Fitzgerald that I would be concerned with this and I was hoping.. . MEMBER TORTORA: You've got to have her speak this way. CHAIRMAN: You kind of have to speak this way. MRS. MELLENDER: ... that you would come with something for me. CHAIRMAN: You have to speak this way, o.k., because we're taping. MRS. MELLENDER: Oh, I'm sorry. I do speak loudly though. CHAIRMAN: That's good. MRS. MELLENDER: Anyway, if you could prepare something that would show us that you are aware of what some of the problems could be and how you deal with it - how you would deal with fire, how you would deal with gas escaping. You probably know better than I what type of problems might come up and there should be emergency procedures set up for that. MR. HOGG: Well, emergency procedures will come by the operating people and if they sit down with the fire department and review it with them so there's nothing written per say until the operating people see the whole thing. Page 4 - Transcript of Hearing Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals MRS. MELLENDER: O.K. MR. HOGG: As far as the compressor itself and the equipment, this machine automatically shuts down on any gas detection. There's a number of pressures and temperature over-rides on this thing that automatically shut it down. It can be shut down automatically from Hicksville and there are two shut-off devices at the site that are located near the fence line. So, the first person who... MRS. MELLENDER: There will be an emergency person somewhere? MR. HOGG: There certainly will. The fire department will also be brought on board if necessary. There will be a chain lock on it. They can cut the chain lock, get in and shut the machine down if there's a fire on the site. CHAIRMAN: Can I just ask a question? MR. HOGG: Certainly. CHAIRMAN: For the last twenty years, if somebody had hit a gas pump in a gas station, the pump was made to cut itself off so it would only burn what gas that was in the pump itself. Would an emergency procedure exist in a situation like this also - in this unit? MR. HOGG: Well, we don't just shut all the gas off immediately because. . . CHAIRMAN: It would by-pass... MR. HOGG: Yes, there's a by-pass around it; when the compressor shuts down, there's an automatic valve that will open and bleed the gas further out east. CHAIRMAN: O.K. So, it would only burn the gas that was in the compressor itself? MR. HOGG: Yes, although we really don't expect a fire. All the equipment inside the buildings or structures are N. E. C. Code, explosion proof, intrinsically safe design. CHAIRMAN: O. K. MRS. MELLENDER: Can I ask - if there should be an emergency, how do you get notified of this? Is there something in the machinery itself that will alert somebody other than someone picking up a phone and saying "We have a problem". What is... MR. HOGG: All of the equipment inside the structures - the gas detectors, alarm back in Hicksville Hicksville will call the local LILCO person to go out there and attend to this. MRS. MELLENDER: And that would be Riverhead? "'-'--"'-"'" ~~~4~__"_'__ Page 5 - Transcript of Hearing Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals MR. HOGG: Yes. MRS. MELLENDER: And Riverhead, 24 hours a day, have people on duty? This structure has nobody on duty? MR. HOGG: Right. MRS. MELLENDER: And how long do you think it should take someone to get here? MR. HOGG: Whatever it takes to drive 7 miles from the site. Riverhead is 7 miles away. CHAIRMAN: There will be nothing hooked up to the police department to your knowledge at this point? MR. HOGG: Normally, what we do is we do have communications with the locals - whoever the people want us to call: the fire department or the police department. CHAIRMAN: where the department? There's no monitoring directly to the police department police department would sound an alarm for the fire MR. HOGG: No. CHAIRMAN: O.K. Can I just mention one other thing, Mrs. Mellender? We discussed the barbed wire issue on the fence. Interestingly enough, within 20 feet of this unit there is a barbed wire fence which basically goes around the yard, a very massive yard which is their operation center in Hicksville. I'd asked them if they could possibly take that barbed wire, which is like this, and kind of tip it down a little bit. The barbed wire is going to be an issue that we're going to deal with. I can't tell you that they can do that. Alright? I don't know how much of it will actually exist in view because of the nature of the need for that barbed wire for security purposes. I'm probably going to go with it just as it exists because it's a fixed unit that fits on the top of each individual rod which hold up the fence. When I say rod, I'm talking pole. O.K.? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to - I just wanted to get that... MRS. MELLENDER: That's o.k. The only thing I want to say, and I don't want to beat it to death is - if you feel uncomfortable without seeing an emergency procedure like I do, do you think that it's something that we could ask to see as people who live in that town? CHAIRMAN: I think we can ask them to sit down at a word processor and knock one ou t for us. MR. HOGG: Either that or we can find you a typical one that we have in another station. We do have other much larger stations in the gas system that we have procedures. We have one in Garden City and Glenwood. So, we have procedures. CHAIRMAN: Right. Page G - Transcript of Hearing Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals MR. HOGG: They would be typical. MRS. MELLENDER: Yes, since this is unmanned. It's a concern. CHAIRMAN: Sure. We told you that any concerns that you have, bring them here and we'll try and rectify them. O. K. ? MRS. MELLENDER: O.K. CHAIRMAN: I had a very enjoyable tour of the Hicksville unit there. These people are very, very nice. They brought me over and so - alright - do you want to see that prior to a decision or do you want to see that... MRS. MELLENDER: I don't know if I'm the one that makes these decisions. That would be up to you. I'm just saying I'd like to see it but I'm not telling you. " CHAIRMAN: O. K. We can close the hearing pending a receipt of such an emergency plan. MRS. MELLENDER: Yes, I mean I would feel comfortable looking at it. I work with emergency procedures and, I have to tell you Jerry, I don't just feel that it's something knocked out on a computer. I do feel that it's something that somebody makes a commitment to do and we expect people to, when they make up an emergency procedure, it's something real. It's something that you're going to work with. CHAIRMAN: I wasn't making that from a trite statement. O. K. ? MRS. MELLENDER: Yes, yes. CHAIRMAN: The purpose of my asking the question was because, as you know, having been a fire person in town - or still am, hopefully - we have many, many of the schools, individual peoples' homes and so on and so forth all hooked up to the police department and the minute something occurs on those properties - alright - the fire department has an alarm and we go and see what the story is. Alright? And that was a very valid question - is there going to be any plan where it will be hooked up to the police department or will it go right to Hicksville? MRS. MELLENDER: I'm not against them increasing the gas flow out here. You know that I was one of the people that were refused gas when I needed it. (Laughter) MRS. MELLENDER: But I do want to be sure that we're safe. (Laughter) MR. HOGG: I just want to say, we're not inventing something - this technology of boosting by remote control is done by the transmission companies all the time with much larger, much higher horse power ---~------_.- ,_..".,.~._.,..~".-_... ,_0_ I Page 7 - Transcript of Hearing Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals compressors. It's a typical function. I understand your concerns. If you want an action plan - right now we're not prepared to put the one for this station together because the operating people need to see the final product and work with the fire department but we do have action plans and they do go over them every year. Fire departments are invited to all of our sites annually to review firefighting procedures or any other procedures and we would assume the same here. CHAIRMAN: O. K. MR. HOGG: And it seemed to be the implication of the fire department that they'd like to see how we plan on doing things. CHAIRMAN: So, Bob, you'll give us a plan that you have... MR. HOGG: For another station. CHAIRMAN: For another station and then you'll give us the original plan after the unit goes in process. MR. HOGG: When it's resolved with the operators and, of course, the fire department. CHAIRMAN: O. K. MR. HOGG: When the lines of communication have been established. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Vllla is an engineer and he would like to ask you a question. MEMBER VILLA: Basically, you've got an existing gas main out in the street. MR. HOGG: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: You must have emergency procedures whether you have a rupture or not. MR. HOGG: Yes, and again, I'm not in operating but yes, the same people who will respond to one unit in the street would be the same people who will respond to that. MEMBER VILLA: Right. I was going to say, you must have something in writing for a main rupture... MR. HOGG: Exactly. MEMBER VILLA: So, it's got to be similar. MR. HOGG: Exactly. MEMBER TORTORA: Are there shut-off valves on the outside mains - you said you have two on site - do you also have shut-off valves? Page 8 - Transcript of Hearing Reguiar Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals MR. HOGG: There will be valves outside so the first people who get there can isolate the station from out in the street. And, at the same time, there's a third valve to allow flow to continue so the end of the island doesn't get cut off. And all of this will be outside the station. CHAIRMAN: Good. MEMBER VILLA: And one other thing: now, you said you had your test borings that went down 50 ft. MR. HOGG: They went 45 ft. MEMBER VILLA: 45 ft. Are the pilings going to go that deep too? MR. HOGG: They're going 50 ft., yes. MEMBER VILLA: 50 ft. O.K. No more questions. CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora? Do you have any questions? MEMBER TORTORA: The pilings would be in sand? MR. HOGG: Yes, but I'm not the civil engineer. MEMBER TORTORA: Yes, because I looked at the original. They'd have to be in sand. MR. HOGG: Yes, they'd have to be down in the good ground. As I said, I'm not the civil engineer. (Simultaneous discussion.) CHAIRMAN: Mr. D.? MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, I've got a couple of things. You know, Suffolk Life just had an article about LILCO and the nuclear power plant and how they wanted to design their evacuation plan after it was built and it sounds to me like dejavu all over again here. I'm wondering if you could just be specific. I would like to mention streets, cut-off the street, put a roadblock here, kind of evacuation plan for this project that you want to do. I would like to see that before I make a decision. I would like to be very specific as to, you know, what streets would be cut off, where people would go, you know, whatever how Suffolk Times building would be - it's rather large - how they would be notified and, you know, as opposed to just some type of generic, drive down the street kind of... MR. HOGG: I don't have a problem trying to put something together in another week or so - that's what it will probably take me to put the plans together or something. I don't normally write them. That's not my function. It's usually the operating people who would put that together. Like we mentioned, if we had a gas incident in the area with the existing main, there are already procedures in place to address that. This is really - the station is no more than really a little divergance __'..__"_"__W~ .....,-.-.--.--., I --~---,.__.,-,~"- Page 9 - Transcript of Hearing Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals main. There is no gas stored there. The gas just flows through the same as it flows through a pipe. It just picks up some pressure... MEMBER DINIZIO: Well certainly it's a process that is going to be introduced to that area. That is not normal. MR. HOGG: Yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: You know, this lady has concerns about that and I think, you know, just to say that, you know, you want to pull something off to show for or something iike that... CHAIRMAN: No, I said that and I shouldn't have. That was not the proper phrase. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, specifically I would iike to see - I would iike to see, you know, if there's a fire here, you know, these people would be directed to go down Bray Avenue, blah, blah. This traffic wil! go here and I don't think it's all that difficult for an engineer - and certainly it should have been something that should have been presented to us when you were deciding this and, as I thought I heard you say, you know, when your operation people get involved - I think that that's when it's built. I don't want to see it then. I prefer to see that we have something in hand that we can agree to. We can agree that's safe and then go from there. Al!ow you to do it. MR. HOGG: Like I said, I can talk to the operating people. Sit down with them and we'll put something together. Again, that's something that the details are really worked out later on when they sit down with the fire departments and those types. If you want something... MEMBER DINIZIO: Sit down with them now. But, before we make a decision - also these pilings that you'll be driving - how wide are they? MR. HOGG: Let me see what I've got here. They're referred to as W14 x 90" pilings, 50 ft. Each one is approximately 10 x 12. MEMBER DINIZIO: Thank you. That's all I have. CHAIRMAN: No problem. Mr. Doyen? MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN: Back to Mr. Villa. MEMBER VILLA: One other question that I'd forgotten. Do you have any objections to having a chain-link fence of either black or green so that it wouldn't be quite as noticeable as the silver? (Simultaneous conversation.) MR. HOGG: What we have proposed, I beiieve, is what looks iike a picket fence almost - not a picket but a wood finish to it with a regular chain-iink fence behind it. It's iike a facade of... , Page 10 - Transcript of Hearing Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals (Simultaneous conversation.) MEMBER VILLA: So you wouldn't even see the chain-link fence? MR. HOGG: That's our intention, yes. MEMBER VILLA: O.K. CHAIRMAN: Is there any test hole in the back that was not done - that was either started or implemented and not completed to the rear of the property? MR. HOGG: Not to our knowledge. CHAIRMAN: I'm just saying that we have a neighbor in the area who has not come before this Board. MEMBER TORTORA: Mr. Hogg is aware of it. We faxed some information to him. CHAIRMAN: You are aware? MR. HOGG: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Have you spoken to him personally? MR. HOGG: No, I have not. CHAIRMAN: No. O.K. MR. HOGG: Our public relations people have talked to the individuaL.. (Tape change.) MEMBER TORTORA: There is a test .hole in that area that Mr. Hickey was talking about. MR. HOGG: Again, not recently and not to my knowledge. Not that I know of. MEMBER TORTORA: O.K. MR. HOGG: The test holes that we did were the two soil borings we did by the soil mechanics. CHAIRMAN: And they are in the area where these two pads are going? MR. HOGG: Yes. CHAIRMAN: O. K. Not to the rear of the property or on any side? MR. HOGG: No. MEMBER TORTORA: It's on the map. ,-- ,,~.~._---_._-- -"'-'~-- . ~..~_._--"'-_.....,. Page 11 - Transcript of Hearing Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: Yes, I know. MEMBER TORTORA: It's indicated on the map. CHAIRMAN: Yes. O.K. I think that exhausts my intents of... MR. GARGLIANO: I have a question for clarification for Mr. Dinizio. Are you proposing that LILCO establish a procedure whereby residents of the area would be evacuated in the event of a mishap at the station? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, not necessarily but certainly, you know, a guide for the fire department and emergency personnel. MR. GARGLIANO: A response type... CHAIRMAN: Yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: And certainly, you know, if this woman wanted to come in and see that she could look at it and say "Oh, o.k., this is how it's going to work". I do have some concerns about the other people in the area and McDonald's and Suffolk Times building. They are close. There could be a problem. 1 mean, anything can happen - let's face it. I would just like to be specific about it to our area - for that particular area so that, you know, a person can come in and realize, yes, that there is something that's fairly organized. MR. GARGLIANO: I understand. An emergency response procedure that's tailored for this particular facility. CHAIRMAN: Yes, specific to this area. I should point out to you that, again - some people don't want to hear this - but I've been a fireman for 29 years in Mattituek and, although I don't work in town, most of the incidents that we've had with gas stations have oceurred on the weekends because that's when the greatest amount of traffie is on Route 25. O.K.? So, it's definitely a concern to us and I have to applaud Mr. Dinizio's insistance because it's a very important thing along with Mrs. Mellender. It's a very important thing. It really is. To know what we're going to do, in what incident, and so on and so forth. Certainly the fire department is going to evacuate but the plan is - where do we go from there. We're not a natural gas facility. We have no prior knowledge what to do in natural gas. So, that's basieally the situation. We're going to contain anything that burns but that's about the best to our knowledge what we're going to do. We certainly want to stop the burning process and we do that by, of course - you do that by shutting off whatever you have to shut off as quickly as you do and that's the important issue. O.K.? But, I thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor or against this application? (No one wished to speak.) CHAIRMAN: O. K. Hearing no further comment, I'll make a motion closing the hearing pending the receipt of this plan that we've requested and we'll probably make a decision after we receive it. How does that sound? Á./t..CD Page 12 - Transcript of Hearing Regular Meeting of Dccember 12, 1996 SOl1thold Town Zoning Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: Second. CHAIRMAN: All ÜI favor? (AI! ayes.) -- ~-_.~.~.-...~---_.- ""I, ?: "'''1 BY 1 -- ~---- --- MAR-7 :... ' ._.-'0 ~.._- .-----.'.. -'."..-' -- ---'._------~ 3J,~01f7 J /: 00 fìI11. ~~ ¿, -,' ,.~ .'''' e':'~1¡¡r~;~,: " p . 'ç.;;¡.;;.w-t--...:;.;'-t;¡;-::; " J,-~,--- ., co _C;,'·':"'.. . . ··..:1 \----- · / lJ i)\L-t~s~Ti0~ " MAR - 5 .~ ~ -.-- ---.-.- TRANSCRIPT OF DECEMBER 12, 1996 HEARING SOUTHOLD TOWN ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Approx. (9:00 p.m. Appl. No. 4410 - GARY SACKS AND ALAN SCHLESINGER. Based upon the July 16, 1996 Notice of Disapproval from the Building Inspector, applicants request a Variance under Article XXIII, Section 100-239.4B for a proposed deck addition (amended 12/11 to include roof and screen enclosure) within 75 feet of bulkhead, at 125 Mesrobian Drive, Laurel, NY; Parcel #1000-145-4-7. CHAIRMAN: I have the original survey from Roderick VanTuyl, P.C., dated June 26, 1990 indicating a modified trapezoidal deck that's requested which was the nature of the application but, because of the amendment, we now are requesting a screened-in porch and roof area. CARMELA BORELLI, ESQ.: I don't know where that came from - that it's amended to request a screened-in roof. MEMBER TORTORA: What we were told by the Building Inspector is for a deck - if a deck has a roof - screen enclosure, it's not a deck. MS. BORELLI: It's not going to have a screen enclosure and it's not going to have a roof. It's going to have latticework across the top. MEMBER TORTORA: That's a roof. It's a roof structure. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MS. BORELLI: O.K. MEMBER TORTORA: And there's a screen mentioned somewhere in the papers also - a screen enclosure. MS. BORELLI: Not that I know of. MEMBER TORTORA: O.K. I'll check the file when the Chairman is done. CHAIRMAN: Just let me finish this. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. To answer your question, the restrictions on the decks that we say are a platform attached to the house, open to the sky. And if it isn't open to the sky, it isn't a roof. MS. BORELLI: By open - I'm not quivaling here - I'm trying to get clarification for myself: By opcn to the sky, it's not open to the sky if it's latticework. It's not a solid piece across - there is not a roof. It is almost like an arbor type thing. Page 2 - Transcript of lIearings Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals MEMBER TORTORA: No, it can't be anything above that according to the Building Inspector. The Chairman may have a different definition but that's not what the Code is. CHAIRMAN: No, mine is not a definition. Mine is just what we write in the decisions, that's aU - as a statement. MEMBER TORTORA: It's considered a roof so... MS. BORELLI: O.K. MEMBER TORTORA: That's why I put that in there because it's amended to include a roof now and I wanted to make that clear. CHAIRMAN: We'U refer to it as a roof structure. MEMBER TORTORA: Lattice roof. CHAIRMAN: Not necessarily a roof but a roof structure. MS. BORELLI: Then I have a follow-up question. Does that change the criteria in any way that they have to meet - because it's not open to the sky? MEMBER TORTORA: No, it's to let everybody be aware that it's not just a deck. O.K.? MS. BORELLI: O.K. CHAIRMAN: I'm not sure about that and the reason why I'm not sure about that is because we're worried about ingress and egress and this is an under-sized lot. O. K.? If we were so inclined to need access for fire or emergency purposes, that would inhibit our access because you don't have much access on the south side and, from looking at the property, I would gain access from the north side. Pardon me? MEMBER VILLA: There's only 6 ft. MEMBER TORTORA: It's the same thing, isn't it? 6 ft., 6 ft. CHAIRMAN: Yes, but I'm just saying that 1 would rather gain access upland than down. MS. BORELLI: I happen to agree with you because when I went to view it, that's the way I went in - from the north side. CHAIRMAN: Right. MS. BORELLI: As opposed to the south side. MEMBER TORTORA: This structure would not have anything to do with that access... CHAIRMAN: If I'm dragging hose it does. '~'_'~___~_'_.,.._ _ ____.. ·____.n·~ --------, Page 3 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals MEMBER TORTORA: I mean the house is at the corner right now. CHAIRMAN: It doesn't make any difference. If I'm dragging 2 1/2" or 3" hose, it does. MS. BORELLI: If it has a roof - if you call that a roof - and it has a roof - but it has the railing anyhow, how does the roof inhibit your access if you're dragging hose? CHAIRMAN: I can't explain it to you unless you were actually there - unless you're actually there and I don't want to - I would never want to see that happen but it does have an affect. I can bring up the old blackboard and give you some... MS. BORELLI: I probably wouldn't understand it anyhow. CHAIRMAN: Remember, you promised to be fast tonight. MS. BORELLI: I know and I started out with all these questions. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I apologize. (laughter) MEMBER TORTORA: Is there a screening going in there? MS. BORELLI: No, not that I know of. (laughter) MS. BORELLI: The screening has to be something that I've never heard about and it's certainly not in the plans that were filed with you that show how it's going to be built. I talked to Gary this afternoon and I've talked to him many times, as you know, by the changes in the survey and it's never, ever been mentioned. CHAIRMAN: O. K. Is there anything that you would like to add? MS. BORELLI: We have applied to the Town Trustees and they have visited the site. They were given copies of the survey, the new amended survey and they have approved it. I believe they issue a waiver. That's been done. I'm sure you are aware that the location of this house as it sits on this piece of property is the result of a variance that was granted back in the 1960's. It sits the way it sits causing the - or creating - the need for further variances because of the way it sits there. What else can I tell you? Unless you have some questions. I think all of it is contained in the plans that were given and the survey that was given. Other than that, I would answer any questions that you have. CHAIRMAN: We'll start with Mr. Doyen. Mr. D.? MEMBER DOYEN: This arbor, would it be free standing? More or less? I see no supports for it to the house other than at the end. Would that be the south end? In other words, are there going to be support joists going across? Page 4 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals MS. BORELLI: Do you mean attached to the house? MEMBER DOYEN: Yes, to the arbor. It doesn't appear to be but it just seems like to me... MS. BORELLI: It would seem to me that you would have to have them because I don't know how you would support it at the other end. MEMBER DOYEN: Right, right. MS. BORELLI: You're right. I do not see, unless.. .Do you have this one? When that says 2 x 12 ledger with 2 x 4 support flange - is that... MEMBER DOYEN: No, that's just a ledger - but, I mean, that would support your joist. I'm looking at this one here. MS. BORELLI: Which doesn't show... MEMBER DOYEN: Which doesn't show any supports. I just want to clarify that that is so. MS. BORELLI: I can't answer that question. I can get an answer for you but I can't answer that question. MEMBER DOYEN: O.K. CHAIRMAN: O.K. Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: I had been down there a couple of months ago - it had been postponed so many times and the plan has been amended a couple of times. I'm looking at this latest plan, August 29th - you're proposing 50 ft. from the back of the bulkhead? MS. BORELLI: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: The 6 ft. on the north part of the property - is that 6 ft. to the end of the deck or 6 ft. to the outer corner of the house? MS. BOR'ELLI: It's 6 ft. to the outer corner of the house. The distance of the front of the deck to the lot line, the closest is 10 ft. CHAIRMAN: Right. MEMBER TORTORA: O.K. I don't have any other questions at this time. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Villa? MEMBER VILLA: I don't know if you noticed or saw the letter we received from Kathy Johnston? MS. BORELLI: Yes, I've seen the letter and I mean I have no reason to doubt that the people were related or still are related and that, at that point in time, that is what they decided to do. I mean I have no reason ^,.....~_'''~___..____,~__~_'__~'.. .'_o>__'_'._._.._._'"~.._~_____~____ ,.-----",.. -1--·----'-~ I Page 5 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals to doubt what he says in the letter. I just - I'm not sure if that impacts someone who bought the house 20 years later when two people decided what to do in the 1960's that suited those two particular families. I'm not sure how that impacts someone who bought the house in 1989 and now wants to make a change in the house. And I don't think that Mr. Johnston's view will be obstructed to any great extent because of this deck. I mean the applicants here could put hedges, and in fact, were planning to put hedges to screen that and create more privacy but, in the interest of not blocking the neighbors' view, they are not going to do that. I mean I have a landscaping plan that showed hedges going up quite a bit. That would have really ruined their view of the water. I've told them to discard that and throw it away. I don't see how an open deck... MEMBER VILLA: When you're saying an open deck, we're not really talking an open deck. We're talking a deck here with a roof on it. MS. BORELLI: If that roof becomes a great hindrance, I will tell them to get rid of the roof. I didn't imagine that open latticework was going to be...I mean it certainly doesn't hinder your view this way if the latticework is up here. MEM3 ER VILLA: With the terrain of that property, your site lines are all screwed up. MS. BORELLI: That's true. That is true. MEMBER VILLA: Well, you know, we're supposed to discuss minimal kind of relief here and you do have a patio - existing patio - now and why wasn't that considered to be possibly enlarged? I can see. they want to come out because they've got the sliding doors. They could come out with just sort of a walkway over to an enlarged patio which wouldn't create the same problems that it's creating now. MS. BORELLI: Well, I think that the patio, as it stands on this side of the house, is not really want they want. I spoke to Gary about this last week or the week before and they really - he tells me that this side really is very exposed to the sun and so forth and that was why they want to .move it to the back side because, as the sun goes this way in the afternoon, they get a more shady area which was another reason why they wanted to put the latticework.. . obviously they have an aversion to all of the sun. The door that was added on tillS, I guess it's the northeast side because it's at an angle - that comes out from, I believe, the dining area which, I think for their purposes, makes this proposed deck better for them in terms of living space - to be accessible from their dining area. Maybe part of it was just an element of choice. The original owner put the porch and patio on that side of the house and the new owner likes the deck on the other side of the house. I mean it could be just a matter of choice as to where you prefer it. CHAIRMAN: O. K. We'll see what develops throughout the hearing. Do you have any other setbacks of any other neighbors? Page 6 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals MS. BORELLI: I know that - do you mean of the house? Of the houses or accessory structures? MEMBER TORTORA: Of decks or anything. CHAIRMAN: Remember, it's not accessory structures. It's related to the house. MS. BORELLI: I know that Mr. Johnston, next door, just got a variance from this Board... CHAIRMAN: That was a garage... MS. BORELLI: To build a garage on the other side. MEMBER TORTORA: Besides him, is there anybody else? MS. BORELLI: No. CHAIRMAN: O. K., thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of the application? (No one wished to speak.) CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else who would like to speak against the application? GAIL WICKHAM, ESQ.: Good evening, if I may, my name is Gail Wickham and I represent George and Kathy Johnston who own to the north of this property. Unfortunately, they weren't able to be here tonight. Mr. Johnston's mother just died unexpectedly but they did ask me to appear and address you. I will, in the interest of the hour, try to be very brief to the extent that I think I can say in two words our position. There is no hardship. No hardship. However, I would appreciate it if you would let me elaborate on that very quickly. I think that Mrs. Johnston's letter indicates how the houses were historically designed and that location of the people who built the houses actually reflects what would happen if you did properly and strictly apply the zoning ordinance and it was set up in the neighborhood for that - in that fashion. . You asked about the setback of other lots in the area. These are really the only two lots that are shaped like this - the other lots are not and, in terms of Mr. Johnston's setback, he's 78 ft. from the creek. If he were to t\Se the granting of this application as a precedent, he could move out 28 ft. I don't think that's what anybody in the neighborhood or the Town would want. Basically, hardship means you don't have an alternative. That's where they want it. It's not a reason that is adequate under the Zoning Code. And here they do, as Mr. Villa pointed out, appear to have adequate room in the side yard in which to locate a deck area. Certainly the sun problem could be handled with awnings or trees or some other manner. It's not necessary living area. The sliding doors on the water side that they want to hook up to this deck weren't there. Until just very recently that was a window. So, I just - frankly, I don't see any hardship in any of this application. As far as the impact on the Johnstons or other properties, for that matter, ""~--~.-..~-~- "'r I I ...-..---- Page 7 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals it would be a significant impact - the view will definitely be impacted because of two reasons: first of all, the location and; second of all, there's a tremendous differential in height. The difference in height between the Johnston's patio and the floor of the proposed deck would be approximately 3 ft. The proposed deck would be at least 3 ft. higher just to begin with because of the topography of the property and then if you add railings and other things on top of that, there is going to be a significant impact. Noise, lights and other things are going to impact. Particularly when you're close to the water. Those of you who are know that noise does travel and the closer you get to the water, the more that's going to carry, both here and across the creek. And I think that briefly, on the question of the fire hose, you can't run a hose over a roof. You can run it over a deck. Is that generally the... CHAIRMAN: Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. MS. WICKHAM: Other than that, unless you want some specific questions with me, that's onr position. CHAIRMAN: Well, the only qnestion that I have, Gail, is that the topography of the property would lend itself that if you came out even with an even extension of the patio to make it a little bit larger, you may be required to go for a variance anyway because you're actually parapetting the patio as it goes ont farther. MS. WICKHAM: You mean the existing patio? CHAIRMAN: Right, right. MS. WICKHAM: Well, yes but if you came out straight and paraIlel to the creek, which you could also do, you would be preserving the existing setback of the house from the creek. You wouldn't necessarily have to come out straight from the patio. You could angle it along. There's a whole yard area there because the existing patio does come out - I have it written down here somewhere - I think it's in the neighborhood of 12 ft. So, you would come out the existing patio and then maybe it would angle off a little bit if the Board felt inclined to do it that way. But there's plenty of area there in that southern yard area and you don't have to go over as far as the house which would impact your access to the water. CHAIRMAN: O. K. Thanks. Ms. Borelli? MS. BORELLI: I think that the speculation on what you can do or not do with the existing patio is a matter of preference. These applicants obviously prefer to add decking the other way and do not want to go out from that existing patio. And the only way you could go out is as Gail has pointed ou t, in that one direction because if you go the other way which is the side of the house that they would like to go out, they would still be looking for a variance because the house itself doesn't meet the 75 ft. setback. It's approximately 62 ft. from the water so no matter what they do, they're going to be faced with that problem of not meeting the 75 ft. setback. I also do not agree that under the Zoning Code you have to prove a hardship. I think you have to weigh what this Page 8 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals does as a benefit for the applicant as opposed to any detriment to the community, health safety and so f01'th but I do not think that you have to show hardship. Other than that, I know that these applicants would conside1' accomodations in te1'ms of the size of this patio - maybe not go out 15 ft. Maybe 12 ft. If you tell me the 1'oof is - I mean, I don't 1'eally see it because the1'e's open 1'aiIings on the side and there is a railing and this is all open between here and the arbor type but I can talk to them about that. So I know that they are willing to do a give and take on this and as for the privacy and the noise, their original proposal as I said, was to put hedges and so forth there so that there would be no noise and to keep the privacy angle because they're moving. But I've told them that that would totally destroy the view of the nextdoor neighbor so that they should not put the hedges in. CHAIRMAN: I have a little problem. I have an elevation problem that I'd like to look at. I would like to re-visit the site. This has gone on for a little while anyway so, if it's not a problem, I'd like to recess the hearing and re-convene it and go out and take another gander. MS. BORELLI: Sure. I think that... MEMBER TORTORA: (Spoke to the Chairman about the inspection.) CHAIRMAN: I can do that too. MS. BORELLI: My understanding is that the height has been planned the way it is so that it is flush with this other patio so that you're not creating steps and then steps which could be potentially hazardous. That's my understanding of why the height is the way it is. But that would be fine. CHAIRMAN: The Board has asked me to close the hearing pending my second inspection. MEMBER TORTORA: Let me ask a question - would your client still object if they agreed to come from 15 to 12 ft. back and unroof - which is a considerable change? MS. WICKHAM: I think that's certainly heading in the right direction. I don't think that they object to the deck per say as much as the extension of it. 12 ft. still brings it out fairly far. If they just wanted to come along the house 6 ft. or so to be able to access that doorway and then come out again in the side yard, I don't think they'd have a problem - G or 8 ft. ... MEMBER TORTORA: I'm just saying if it's possible to work something out this evening, it would be great. Could you kind of show us what you're talking about? It's kind of hard for me to envision this, Ms. Borelli. CHAIRMAN: I can't do anything tonight because I can't get the elevations completely. MEMBER TORTORA: She just wants to talk about it. ""'.--"~-'---~,-....- -"'----~.._-- ------,.-.-- Page 9 - Tl'allscript of Hearings Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: I have no problem with that. You're welcome to talk about it but I have to get there with Mr. Villa because we have to work this thing out as we do with that one down there on Bay Avenue. (Simultaneous discussions. Unable to decipher statements.) LINDA KOWALSKI (ZBA Secretary): Excuse me, I can't get everybody but I would like to. MS. BORELLI: Especially when we're all talking at once. (Simultaneous discussion.) MEMBER VILLA: ...We're glvlllg her a variance - no question but you're coming out here 6 ft. You're eliminating really noise use here. You're putting it over here. That's what you're doing. (Simultaneous discussion.) MEMBER VILLA: How are you going to have somebody 2 ft. from your property line and having a party? MS. BORELLI: I talked to the Johnstons at the time that I was out there visiting the site which was months ago and he told me 12 ft. was acceptable to him. MS. WICKHAM: He never said that. You were talking to my client? (Simultaneous discussion.) MRS. KOWALSKI: Jerry, do you want to get off in 5 minutes or... MS. BORELLI: I guess he was your client at the time. As soon as he told me he was represented by counsel, I shut my mouth and walked right away. I said, "Forget it - Gail Wickham will be chasing me all over the Town on this one". I didn't know he had.a lawyer. He came over and talked to me. He wanted to know if I was trespassing on his neighbor's property because he didn't know who I was. (Laughter) MEMBER TORTORA: Well, that would be my request. CHAIRMAN: The problem that we have here is the elevation factor that we're talking about. The farther out here is the elevation factor that she's referring to. O.K.? We could be talking 5 or 6 ft. out here? MEMBER VILLA: At least. CHAIRMAN: In reference to elevation. Off the ground. See, that's the problem, O.K.? That's the reason why Mr. Villa is asking for that to be.. . Page 10 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals MS. BORELLI: If, if - I know that they would cut it from 15 to 12. I have authority to do that - to go from 15 to 12. 6, I think, is unreasonable. You can't get a table and chairs... (Simultaneous discussion.) MEMBER VILLA: All I'm saying is that the 6 ft., for me, all that's doing is providing you access from a dining room to a deck which is only 3 or 4 ft. away... (Simultaneous discussion.) MEMBER TORTORA: If you want to extend that deck - I mean they have as nice a view from there as they do here. CHAIRMAN: Just remember - what we're worried about is the elevation factor. MS. BORELLI: Right. MEMBER TORTORA: Their view is the same. CHAIRMAN: Because we're creating a vaulted situation which we really don't want to create. MEMBER TORTORA: Why don't you compromise? They're asking for 15. Why don't you both agree to 8? MS. BORELLI: 1 can't agree to 8. I don't have authority to do that. CHAIRMAN: Well, that's what I'm saying. (Simultaneous discussion.) CHAIRMAN: ... and we'll go back and we'll re-convene it. MEMBER TORTORA: Carmela, will you allow the Board to give you an alternative or would you rather re-apply - let them deny it and you re-apply? MS. BORELLI: Oh, don't even say that in jest, Lydia. CHAIRMAN: Lydia... MEMBER TORTORA: I mean just in case. Come on - I think that's an excellent idea. CHAIRMAN: For the record, I knew this was not going to be a short hearing. MEMBER TORTORA: Yes, you were right. We could make a decision or we could do it right now. ~'._··____M'''_·______ _ _._.,_.~._-~.~ ---~.,...., "_.-._-"",,,,- Page 11 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting uf December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: Could you do me a favor? Would you go back to them and see what they will go for? MS. BORELLI: They will cut back. (Simultaneous discussion.) CHAIRMAN: Would you please explain to them that height problem... (Simultaneous discussion.) MS. BORELLI: Gail, can I ask you another question? Suppose, just assume. . . (Simultaneous discussion.) MS. BORELLI: Gail, assume for the sake of discussion that we went to 12, and not less than 12, but we came back further off the lot line. MS. WICKHAM: Can I make a suggestion - that we contact our clients and confer between now and the 16th and see if we can come up with something? MEMBER TORTORA: Respond in writing. If you want to respond in writing, you don't have to come back. (Simultaneous discussion.) MEMBER VILLA: Find out where those windows are and start the deck there. MS. BORELLI: Where the sliding glass door is? MEMBER VILLA: Right. MS. BORELLI: I think that's even a possibility too. CHAIRMAN: I'm closing the hearing... MEMBER TORTORA: Pending a written response from both attorneys. CHAIRMAN: I don't understand why we can't leave it open until February. MEMBER TORTORA: It's their choice - what would you rather do? Do you want to come back or do you want to do it by letter? MS. BORELLI: WelI, if you leave it open, it doesn't mean we have to come back again. CHAIRMAN: No. MS. BORELLI: It means if we resolve it and we've resolved it - period. Page 12 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: That's it. Sure. MS. BORELLI: And if we don't resolve it, we'll be back anyhow. (Simultaneous discussion on whether to leave the hearing open or to close it.) MEMBER TORTORA: The problem is, we don't have a plan then. Do you know what I mean? CHAIRMAN: Yes. (Simultaneous discussion.) CHAIRMAN: I want to reserve decision - excuse me, I want to leave it open until February and let them meet - they've got the whole month of January to meet... (Simultaneous discussion.) MS. BORELLI: So, Gail, I'll give you a call? MS. WICKHAM: In February. MRS. KOWALSKI: February 6th, Carmela. CHAIRMAN: February 6th. MS. BORELLI: February 6th. (The motion was seconded by Member Villa; all ayes.) -,....".~'""~..._--_._,,._-_._,. ,-~_.__.~--- _.- .",." --'--,- ~ ........_~~"" Page 12 - Transcril_ ,f Hearings (Sacks) Regular Mceting of December 12, 1996 Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: That's it. Sure. MS. BORELLI: And if we don't resolve it, we'll be back anyhow. (Simultaneous discussion on whether to leave the hearing open or to close it.) MEMBER TORTORA: The problem is, we don't have a plan then. Do you know what 1 mean? CHAIRMAN: Yes. (Simultaneous discussion.) CHAIRMAN: I want to reserve decision - excuse me, I want to leave it open until February and let them meet - they've got the whole month of January to meet.. . (Simul ta neous discussion.) MS. BORELLI: So, Gail, I'll give you a call? MS. WICKHAM: In February. MRS. KOWALSKI: February 6th, Carmela. CHAIRMAN: February 6th. MS. BORELLI: February 6th. (The motion was seconded by Member Villa; all ayes.) ~----- --- ---- _,_. ,,.,"7 .-- .... 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