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ZBA-10/17/1996 HEARING
APPEALS BOARD MEMBERS Gerard P. Goehringer, Chairman Serge Doyen James Dinizio, Jr. Robert A. Villa Lydia A. Tortora BOARD OF APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Southold Town Hall 53095 Main Road RO. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax (516) 765-1823 Telephone (516) 765-1809 TRANSCRIPT OF HEARINGS REGULAR MEETING OF OCTOBER 17, 1996 SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS Prepared by Noreen Frey (from tape recordings) 7:30 p.m. Appl. #4407 HUGH and ROSEMARY MURPHY. Carryover. DIANE HEROLD, Architect appeared with the applicant. CHAIRMAN: Where are we going from here Diane, any suggestions. MRS. DIANE IIEROLD: Good evening. CHAIRMAN: How are you? DIANE HEROLD: We wanted to discuss what we covered at our last meeting. CHAIRMAN: OK DIANE HEROLD: The board suggested that perhaps we should move the building, and we more or less agreed at our last meeting. Since then, I wrote a letter to the board saying, that we do appreciate leaving enough space in the Southwest corner, to put in the sanitary system, that both your board and the Trustees are requiring from us. So that's one consideration, and the other consideration was, we agreed about removing the building, that's now an accessory building. But Mr. Murphy felt that perhaps, you would grant klm a 10 by 10 shed for lawn mowers and lawn equipment. So basically, that's where we stand, and we are amiable to the board's suggestions, with those considerations taken into account. CHAIRMAN: I just want to, do you have a problem reading the survey. Is that what the problem was? MEMBER TORTORA: Well, we have the originals. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: There's no substantial change. Page 2 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: Well, other than their telling us that we can remove the garage, and possibly slide the house a little bit more to the right-of-way. Is that correct? DIANE HEROLD: That is correct, but by the same token, I'm sure Mr. Villa could tell you, you need a certain amount of space for the sanitary system. CHAIRMAN: Right. DIANE HEROLD: It's a five pool system with a septic tank, so it does take a considerable amount of space. We do have the depth to water in that area. I have two tests holes done, and we can put it in the 'Southwest corner of the property. CHAIRMAN: Ok, is this going to require you to go back to the Health Department, if there's any (unfinished sentence). DIANE HEROLD: Quite honestly, I haven't gone to the Health Department. CHAIRMAN: You haven't gone to the Health Department. Oh that's right, it's a preexisting situation Diane. DIANE HEROLD: It was just because your board and the Trustees required, that we put in a new sanitary system, but I have to get approval from both your boards before I go back to the Health Department. CHAIRMAN: To the Health Department. OK, let me just ask Mr. Villa a question. A 10 foot septic tank has to be 10 foot from the house. Is that correct or approximately? DIANE HEROLD: It will be five, for building on pilings. CHAIRMAN: OK, so it would be five. DIANE HEROLD: Yes, and five feet from property Hnes. CHAIRMAN: right-of-way. the distances? The survey I have, I can't read the distance to the Do you have a better copy of what you can tell me, MEMBER TORTORA: It's very hard to read. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we're having a heck of a time. DIANE HEROLD: Basically, what I do is I give you a five foot offset. CHAIRMAN: Right. DIANE HEROLD: And another five foot offset. Page 3 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of liearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: Right. DIANE HEROLD: And then from the building it's probably about eight feet, I would say. So, you're talking about, you can't go to much more. It has to be five {eet off the sanitary, so we're looking at maybe, a five foot move. You know, not considerable. CHAIRMAN: All right. What is the question? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I have a question? Is she asking for a detached garage, plus a 10 by 10 shed. CHAIRMAN: No, no. A 10 by l0 shed. DIANE HEROLD: No, we're giving up the building which is (unfinished sentence) MR. HUGH MURPHY: It's 10 and one half by 20. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. HUGH MURPHY: And I think what we were talking about is 10 by 12. CHAIRMAN: Right. DIANE HEROLD: 10 by 12. CHAIRMAN: 10 by 12. DIANE HEROLD: Something like that. 3ust a utility shed. CHAIRMAN: Yes. Ok, and that building is approximately on the line, or how far is it off the line? DIANE HEROLD: I would say it's within inches. CHAIRMAN: What did you say Diane? DIANE HEROLD: I would say it's within inches. CHAIRMAN: Within inches. All right. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Which building is this? CHAIRMAN: The garage. The garage is within inches of the property line. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Presently. CHAIRMAN: Presently. So if we move the house five feet toward, I assume that's South, ok. DIANE HEROLD: Toward the right-of-way. Page 4 - October ]7, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: Toward the right-of-way, which appears to be South, based upon where the North line is being shown, all right. DIANE HEROLD: Yes. CHAIRMAN: We eliminate the garage and establish a side yard requirement, for the storage building. That's basically what your proposing. MEMBER VILLA: Question. The storage building is just going to be on, like a skid almost or wood deck? CHAtl~MAN: Slab. MEMBER VILLA: Slab or what? DIANE HEROLD: On a slab. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It has to be on a slab. DIANE HEROLD: Or a stacked block, whatever it is. I don't think that's critical for determination. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: No DIANE HEROLD: We would be amenable to what you suggest. Preferable a slab, because then you could things in it. MEMBER VILLA: I was just thinking, if you just put it on a wood platform or something like that, you could actually locate it over a leaching pool. It doesn't matter. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I don't think the Building Department would allow that though. They usually require eight inches. DIANE HEROLD: You also have to be careful, because the Board of Health is never happy about driving over leaching pools, but in this case, we're going to have to, because it's our only alternative. MEMBER VILLA: You're not going to use it as a garage, oh. You're going to drive over it. CHAIRMAN: You're going to use it as a driveway. DIANE HEROLD: No, but I'm saying you still have to park. You're still going to have to park two cars off the road, and that's where the sanitary system is proposed. MEMBER VILLA: OK. DIANE HEROLD: So, we're already asking for some leniency there. MEMBER VILLA: No, you'll have to have traffic variance slabs on it. Page 5 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA DIANE HEROLD: That's right. CHAIRMAN: Ok, how about this? Moving the house to the South five feet. Establishing a one foot side yard, and constructing a l0 by 12 storage building, basically in the same position, that the front of the garage is right now. You'll have to give us some distances on this. All right, one foot off the property line on the right-of-way, and that the storage building not contain anything, but the utility of electricity if you so desire. We don't want water, we don't want (unfinished sentence). SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I was wondering if she could locate the house, or you could locate the house and the utility shed, you could Come back and reapply, and see where you might want to fit it in. CHAIRMAN: Well, that we can determine. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: accessory shed. Because we didn't advertise for an DIANE HEROLD: No, I understand that. I would just like the board to be aware that, we would come back. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Come back in the future. DIANE HEROLD: Even in the future, because we discussed the last time. CHAIRMAN: This was only a philosophical statement that I was making. I mean, I'm getting them aware of the fact that you are going to have to come back. That is correct. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Probably have to come back for anything you do on the property. CHAIRMAN: It would move five feet, so the porch would move five feet within side the line. MEMBER TORTORA: From the wetlands? CHAIRMAN: Yes, yes. MEMBER TORTORA: Is that right? MEMBER VILLA: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: Let's put that in. CHAIRMAN: Yes, ok. Does anybody have any objection to that? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I just want to see the map Jerry. Page 6 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER VILLA: What's the size of the building envelope now, that's proposed? It's hard to figure all kind of additions on here, and now you're eliminating everything. So I don't know what we're looking at. What kind of a building envelope we're looking at? DIANE HEROLD: Are you talking about the building envelope for the main structure? It's still a six foot addition on the West side, and a 12 foot addition on the South side. MEMBER VILLA: Yes, but you're going to tear that whole thing down, right. DIANEiHEROLD: Yes. MR. HUGH MURPHY: Right. MEMBER VILLA: Start over. MR. HUGH MURPHY: Right. MEMBER VILLA: So what size building are we looking at? I mean, this to me is (unfihished sentence). DIANE HEROLD: You mean, in square feet. MEMBER VILLA: Yes, dimensions wise. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: In dimensions. MEMBER VILLA: What are we looking at. We're looking at an envelope. DIANE HEROLD: I submitted a plan to the (unfirdshed sentence). CHAIRMAN: We have the (unfinished sentence). SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It's in the files. MEMBER VILLA: Do you have what it's going to be, I mean? DIANE HEROLD: Yes, the plan shows the existing building, plus the two additions that we are requesting, so if they want to see them. MEMBER VILLA: decision. DIANE HEROLD: SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: 3670, that's right. DIANE HEROLD: This is the one. This is the one that requesting. I just thought that was up for grabs now, the No, that's not the one. we're Page 7 - October t7, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: There are no figures showing on here. It's just a scale. Does anybody have a ruler? MEMBER VILLA: We don't know what we're looking at, you know. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes. CHAIR1VLAN: We'll go get a ruler. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, if you want to give me a ruler. CHAIRMAN: Jim, would you go get the ruler? MEMBER DINIZlO: Yes sure, where is it? CHAIRMAN: On Linda's deck. MEMBER DINIZIO: On your desk? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: On the left hand side, the left hand one. DIANE HEROLD: That was the original one. What we're proposing now, because Mr. Murphy wanted a better porch . MEMBER TORTORA: And the dimensions? CHAIRMAN: What we're going to do is recess the hearing for about 20 minutes, and let you sit down. DIANE HEROLD: Fine. CHAIRMAN: And do what you want to do, and then come back with US. DIANE HEROLD: Sure, I have it probably in my notes, but it will take me a half hour to go through the notes. So, if you give me a set of plans. CHAIRMAN: You have the dimensions? MEMBER VILLA: If that's the dimensions. DIANE HEROLD: No, the next one. CHAIRMAN: Put an X through that, would you? MEMBER TORTORA: Let's take it out. MEMBER VILLA: It's very confusing, the lot we're looking at. DIANE HEROLD: Well, because the original, the board gathered our integrity, so I gave you all the plans, through all the years, Page 8 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA showing that we have been working on this. Not that we suddenly woke up in April and said," we don't like what we're doing". MEMBER TORTORA: I think one member of the board questioned that? That statement. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKt: I can't hear Lydia with the mikes covered, so I can't hear your response to anything. CHAIRMAN: She said, it was one board member. MEMBER TORTORA: I said, a board member questioned the application. DIANE HEROLD: Actually there were two of them. You weren't here, but there was two of them, but. CHAIRMAN: Thanks a lot Jim. DIANE HEROLD: Yes, if we wait for 20 minutes, we'll be back soon. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Just give that to her. CHAIRMAN: You know, you're welcome to (unfinished sentence). MEMBER TORTORA: Here's a new set of plans. CHAIRMAN: Lydia, give Diane this, she can (unfinished sentence). DIANE HEROLD: It's empty, we'll be back. CHAIRMAN: OK, we're going to recess this hearing for approximately 20 minutes. I'll make that offer as a Resolution. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Who made the motion Jerry? MEMBER DINIZIO: I was wondering if they are going to give us setback measurements on that. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we're getting Lydia's setback and then we'll copy. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes. CHAIRMAN: All right, I made the motion, Serge second it. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: You recess for 20 minutes. Is that the motion? CHAIRMAN: Or whatever time it takes. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: And Lydia second it? Page 9 - October ~7, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: No, Serge. OK, that takes care of that temporally anyway. Page 10 - October ]7, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 7:35 p.m. Appl. 4423 ARTHUR FOSTER. Variance for substandard lot depth at less than 250 feet (and substandard frontage (width) along Cox Neck Road), proposed Lot #2 in this proposed cluster division. W/S Cox Neck Road, Mattituck. CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of the survey. Most recent date is May 3, 1996, updated on 9/5/96, indicating Lot #1 is the house lot. Indicating Log #2 as the longer, rather than the narrower lot. Longer right-of-way, and the lot that fronts on, which is not a lot, it's a piece of property. It fronts on Cox Neck Road, as being a passive or active recharged basin of 20,959 square feet. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: As proposed Jerry. CHAIRMAN: As proposed. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes. CHAIRMAN: And I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Foster, how are you tonight? MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Fine thank you. CHAIRMAN: What would you like to tell us? MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Well, the lot meets all the criteria. It's high ground. There is a Iow portion towards Cox Neck Road. You know, I'm trying to get another house in there. The building envelope is more than substantial, and the elevation is more than substantial. The piece at the end will go to the Town, for a drainage easement, which we desperate need according to Ray Jacobs. CHAIRMAN: I had discussed, I had actually gotten called by neighbors in the area, across the street from you. Across the right-of-way from you. They indicated that most of the property drain's from South to North, or toward your property, which you're proposing this second dwelling on, which is Lot #2. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: You mean property other than mine? CHAIRMAN: Yes, it's a natural swale, was what they're saying. It runs from South to North, and that it always drained into this Lot ~2, and then runs down into this area that you are going to dedicate to the Town. My only question is, if you construct a house. If this board is so inelined to grant this, and ff you construct a house within this Lot ~2, is there going to be any impact of this drainage problem, on Lot #2? In other words, is it going to inhibit any drainage to go down into this dedicated area, that you're talking about? MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Absolutely not. Page 12 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Runoff that there is right now. In reference to the property to the South. I've been living there approximately 10 years, and when I first moved there, there was drainage from the North, from the South to the North, and that was being farmed. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: It was a potato farm, and since then the last 6 to 8 years, a nursery. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: And there hasn't been any water shed from that nursery onto my land, since then. As a matter of fact, it's been built up all along the perimeter of the property line, and none of the water comes my way anymore. CHAIRMAN: So they contain most of their water then. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Well they have yes, actually they never should have dumpling it on me, to start with. CHAIRMAN: That's right. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: There hasn't been any water coming from that particular area, and prior to that to the Northwest, there was water coming, that ran down between my property and the Hinderliter property, and I did an extensive amount of work for the Department of Agriculture. They put alot of grass waterways and alot of settlement area's in, and I've only seen water down behind my house once, since that was done~ and that was about 6 or 8 years ago. CHAIRMAN: OK. We'll start with Mr. Villa. MEMBER VILLA: Do you feel that you can build, and stay within the confines of the building envelope? MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Oh, absolutely. MEMBER VILLA: No problems with restriction. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: None whatsoever. As a matter of fact, the finished floor of the basement is approximately 11 feet above the low point. MEMBER VILLA: Do you have a structure laid out for this piece? MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Well, I set a transit .up and I took some (unfinished sentence).. Yes; but I have an idea of what kind of house I'm want to build, the size of it. MEMBER VILLA: You're asking for a variance because it doesn't have sufficient depths and I can just see. Page I3 - October I7, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It's not depth Bob, it's width. It's road runnage. MEMBER VILLA: I'm sorry. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK. MEMBER VILLA: Coming back in and looking for a variance, because it won't fit in the building envelope. You don't feel that. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Oh no, no. This is I won't be back. This is more than ample. and 200 feet in width. (unfinished sentence). It's 55 feet in depth, MEMBER VILLA: The 35 foot setback is from the right-of-way. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: From the right-of-way, that's correct. MEMBER VILLA: Not from your property line. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Excuse me. MEMBER VILLA: It's not from your property line. right-of-way line. It's from a MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: right-of-way line. Well, it's from the Northern side of the MEMBER VILLA: Yes. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: feet. So, from the Southern end it would be 85 CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: And then, right-of-way is 50, the road in Northerly side of the property line. I might add even though that existing now, runs along the MEMBER VILLA: you wanted to. So in essence, theoretically you could move it if MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Well, I'm sorry. It runs along the Southern side of the line. So in other words, the 35 foot setback to the house from the 50 foot right-of-way, you could add an additional 25 feet to that. The road is only 16 feet wide, but it's on a very Southern side of the property. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: So there's even more distance to the actual structure. Page 14 - October 17, Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 1996 MEMBER VILLA: Well, you had a stake right there, by the side of the right-of-way. You know stakes. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Yes, I put stakes in. MEMBER VILLA: Yes, and it's 35 feet back to where the house is laid out. ' ME. ARTHUR FOSTER: Yes, 35 feet from the actual line. CHAIRMAN: OK MEMBER VILLA: Now, that setback from the'West side, is going to be 20 feet? MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: That's correct. As a matter of fact, I picked up maps today indicating that. They changed them. Yes, they changed that to 20 feet, and well they just indicated the cesspools to the existing house on there. I think be showed the 12 inch water main, that's presently going in Cox Neck Road, which is about 50 feet from the right-of-way right now. CHAIRMAN: OK, anything else Bob? MEMBER VILLA: No. CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: What is the Town going to do as far as the drainage on that one property, because I'm am familiar with that area, and it's a problem. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: The board received a proposed (unfinished sentence). MEMBER TORTORA: Letter. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: A proposed, did you see that? MEMBER TORTORA: I did. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: Welt, it's basically a small engineer sump area, which is really what's needed there. MEMBER VILLA: Whose going (unfinished sentence). MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: They show a picture of it. MEMBER VILLA: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: Yes. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: I guess James Richter, the Town's engineer drew this up. Designed it and drew it. Page 15 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER TORTORA: OK, I don't have any other questions. Let's see what developes. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: OK CHAIRMAN: OK, Mr. Dinizio. MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I'd just like to hold my comments until after hear, for or against. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Doyen. MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN: OK, we thank you. Is there anybody else that would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against it? Either, or. Just state your name. MR. BILL HILKNER: Bill Hitkner, and it pretty much from the West, to that piece of property. I own the property North of that, all the land after that, runs off CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. BILL HILKNER: My property and his property. CHAIRMAN: OK. MR. BILL HILKNER: It basically floods, when we have a heavy rain from Cox Neck Road at least 300 feet, up that property line. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. BILL HILKNER: The area where he wants to put a recharge basin, is basically highland. The Hogan property there is the lowest piece of land there, if you walked the piece of property. I have no problem with him building a house there, whatever he wants to build. It doesn't bother me, as long as it doesn't effect the flow of water. That's my only problem. He could build a rocket silo there. I don't care CHAIRMAN: OK. MR. BILL HILKNER: It's the water problem. CHAIRMAN: I understand that, and we are concerned about your concern. The oniy thing is, there is no way for him to inhibit your water flow down. It's going to go, you know. It's going to go no matter how you slice it, because you're on the top of the hill, and this particular (unfinished sentence). MR. BILL HILKNER: Right, well basically, this Lot #2. The majority of them, 85 to 90 % of that is lowland. Page 16 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: Lowland, right. MR, BILL HILKNER: that's highland. CHAIRMAN: Right. That's why (unfinished sentence). There one little corner, in the corner there, MR. BILL HILKNER: That's basically it. CHAIRMAN: And I think that's basically where he's going to construct, so that's the reason. MR. ]~ILL HILKNER: The only thing they don't have is the water flow, and it's all land to the West of this, the grapes, and vacant land, and everything. There's basically, I'm guessing, probably somewhere around 60 or 70 acres that flow through here. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. BILL HILKNER: And it does not cross Cox Neck Road. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. BILL HILKNER: There is no way to get across Cox Neck Road. CHAIRMAN: Right. It stay's there. MR. BILL HILKNER: It winds up right there. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. BILL HILKNER: It leaches down. CHAIRMAN: OK. MR. BILL HILKNER: That's it. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Is there anybody else that would like to speak regarding this application? OK, any other questions Mr. Dinizio. MEMBER DINIZIO: No. CHAIRMAN: No, Mr. Villa. MEMBER VILLA: No. CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora, ok. MEMBER TORTORA: No. MEMBER VILLA: Well, I do have one question. Who's going to build a recharge basin? Page 17 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: The Town. MEMBER VILLA: The Town. CHAIRMAN: Yes, ok. I'll make a motion closing the hearing, and reserving decision until later. All in favor, aye. POSTPONED: 7:53 p.m. Appl. #4410 GARY SACKS and A. SCHLESINGER. Variance for approval of proposed setback of deck addition to dwelling which will be located within 75 feet (and for approval of deck at the northerly side yard). CHAI~NLAN: Application #4410 is postponed. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: We need a resolution on that. CHAIRMAN: AH right, I'll make a motion. SECRETARY: Are you going to ask ff anyone is present. CHAIRMAN: Is anyone present for #44107 OK. Seeing no one, I'll make the resolution planning it for the next scheduled meeting, which is. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: November 14. CHAIRMAN: November 14. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Does anyone want to second that? CHAIRMAN: All in favor, aye. Page 18 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 7:53 p.m. Postponement requested by HENRY TRAENDLY. Variance for approval of excessive height, existing berm-fence combination along front yard at 13220 Main Road, East Marion. CHAIRMAN: Appeal number. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Marie Treandly. CHAIRMAN: That one is postponed also. I'll make the same resolution. MEMBER DINIZIO: Second. CHAIRMAN: Appeal #4421. All in favor, aye. Page 19 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southotd Town ZBA 7:54 p.m. Appeal .--.'4425 GISELA MORCHEL Special Exception for Accessory Bed and Breakfast for renling three bedrooms and serving breakfast to not more than six transient roomers. 26405 Main Road and Crown Land Lane, Cutchogue. CHAIRMAN: The board did a physical inspection last Saturday. I have a copy of the survey dated September 3, 1991, indicating a rather stately two story cape styled house, and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. How are you tonight? MS. GISELA MORCHEL: Thank you, fine. CHAIRMAN: What would you like to tell us. MS. GISELA MORCHEL: I would like to operate a bed and brealmfast because it seems more and more visitors are coming out here, and from what I'm told, there is a need for more of these accommodations. I feel, it's a small way in which I can contribute, to have tourist leave some of their cash in our community, to help us around here. CHAIRMAN: OK, we'll start with Mr. Villa, any questions? MEMBER VILLA: No, I have no questions. CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora. MEMBER TORTORA: The only question I have, is what we discussed during the inspection. There are two spaces now in the asphalt driveway. MS. GISELA MORCHEL: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: And you have a garage for your car, and you indicated that you would like to put another space, which would be required. MS. GISELA MORCHEL: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: spruce trees. In a area that is now the grass and little MS. GISELA MORCHEL: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: So, I would request that you include that in the map that you submitted to us, so we can create a dedicated area. MS. GISELA MORCHEL: OK, would you like me to do this now? MEMBER TORTORA: OK, you can if you want. MS. GISELA MORCHEL: OK, fine. Page 20 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER DINIZIO: ( CHAIRMAN: What? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It's better if she does ii on the file. CHAIRMAN: Actually we have a penned in area here. MS. GISELA MORCHEL: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Is that basically the area we pencil]ed in? MS. GISELA MORCHEL: No. CHAIRMAN: No, ok. MEMBER DINIZIO: I have a particular concern, maybe we ought to address that. CHAIRMAN: Address that. MEMBER DINIZIO: Before you start drawing. MS. GISELA: MORCHEL: OK. MEMBER DINIZIO: My concern is thai, you now have a turnaround in that driveway now, so you can back out of the driveway, and then go face forward onto the street. Whereas, you have aiot more control over the car. And in our discussion, this is a fairly dangerous corner, and that people come around quite fast. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Right, right. MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm concerned now with people who are not aware of that, are not used to that, backing out of this driveway, and something happening to them. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: So I'd like to see if you could somehow, maybe make this so they do not back out of this driveway. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: In some way. MS. GISELA MORCHEL: Yes MEMBER DINIZIO: Now, I've gone over in my head, and I don't know how you're going to do it, without taking out some trees, or something. But, I do think that you're going to indicate to us thai, these people are not going to be backing out onto the Crown Land Lane. Page 21 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Although many times, I've backed out just because there was some inconsiderale relatives, who had just parked in a way that I couldn't. I had to back out. ! didn't find any problems, but you never know. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, your indication to us. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: There are helpless people. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, you indication to us that day was, if someone parks on the other side of the street. MS. GISELA MORCHEL: There are vehicles on the street, yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, that's ok for you because your quite aware. MS. GISELA MORCHEL: Do I have to accommodate other people who park in the street, where I'm not allowed to park my car, or anybody else's car in the street. MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I don't think I'm indicating that. CHAIRMAN: That's for the purposes of this hearing. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: OK SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It's on your property. MEMBER DINIZIO: My concern is that people now, you raised that question when we were there. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Right, that's true. MEMBER DINIZIO: OK, now were going to grant you permission to take people who are not familiar with the area, and invite them into your home. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Right. MEMBER DINIZIO: And have them back out onto, what you consider to be a fairly dangerous corner. My feeling is, that maybe we should try to somehow alleviate that in some way. My feeling is, them not backing onto the street. Now, how you do it. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: OK MEMBER DINIZIO: I think you ought to give it a go. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: And show us that these people will, it would be natural for them to put in and then back out. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Yes. Page 22 - October ~7, Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 1996 MEMBER DINIZIO: In the driveway, and then pull out face forward onto your street. CHAIRMAN: Can I just make a suggestions? The calumniation of the hearing will make it subject to that, and we can go back and look at that. MEMBER DINIZIO: I have no indicate that. You raised the about it. problem with that, but I wanted to question and then I started thinking MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Yes, I know. MEMBER DINIZIO: And even when we were sitting there, people were coming around thaz corner, quite (unfinished sentence). It's a wide street. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: It is. MEMBER DINIZlO: I mean. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Since there were always two vehicles in the street, I wonder why they (unfinished sentence). MEMBER DINIZIO: I think they, I can't, we can't control that. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: I was just curious. MEMBER DINIZIO: I certainly can control this, and 1 would like to see if we can somehow alleviate them people, backing out onto the street. CHAIRMAN: OK. MEMBER DINIZIO: Even if it's a circular thing, whatever. CHAIRMAN: Thank you Ms. Morchel. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: two cars. OK. There would be plenty of space for CHAIRMAN: Right. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Going into the garage. CHAIRMAN: Right. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: And there were trees here. CHAIRMAN: Right. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: And here and there, would be plenty for at least, a super large truck. Page 23 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: OK MS. GESILA MORCHEL: I'll try to work on that. MEMBER VILLA: If you bring the car in there, like you were talking to us, you're coming in at an angle, and that would lead the people backir~g out on that same angle. If you made it perpendicular to your driveway~ they would then properly back across your driveway, and go out head first. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: But, if you have it on an angle, they are going to go oul the same way as they go in. If you kept it perpendicular, you'd probably achieve the purpose. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: I don't think we can (unfinished sentence). CHAIRMAN: OK, Mr. Doyen, any questions? MEMBER DOYEN: No, thank you. CHAIRMAN: OK. Is there anybody else in the audience that would like to speak for or against this hearing? Ok, do you Ladies or Gentlemen want to approve this, or do you want deal with the parking issue, and express it in some phraseology. MEMBER DINIZIO: I'd like to see what she comes up with. She's the most familiar with the property. MEMBER TORTORA: Show Jim what she just indicted on her map Jim, what she's planning to do, and see if that's ok with you. MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I don't think that that's going to make anybody. That will just force everybody to just back right out, onto that street. There has to be a better way. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: You probably should recess it. CHAIRMAN: OK, do you want to come up with a plan, do some measurements and come back to us. MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Yes. CHAIRMAN: And we'll (unfinished sentence). MS. GESILA MORCHEL: When can that be done? CHAIRMAN: November 14. Is that all right? MS. GESILA MORCHEL: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Very good. OK, hearing no further comment I'm recessing the hearing until November 14. All in favor. Page 24 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA Reopened Appl. i 4407 - MURPHY. 8:01-8:07 p.m. CHAIRMAN: I'i1 make a motion reopening that hearing. MEMBER TORTORA: Second. CHAIRMAN: All in favor, aye. DIANE HEROLD: It's just handwritten. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's all right DIANE HEROLD: I'd just like to review these numbers with you. The existing house is 899 square feet. The existing porch, which is on the North side of the building, is 375 square feet, and the existing, what we're calling the garage, the accessory building is 215 square feet, which gives us a total of 1521 lot coverage at present. What we're proposing is that 6 foot and 12 foot addition, which would give us 1450 square feet, with a house. We're going to replace the porch on the North side, which is the 375 square feet. We have an entry deck on the West side. Not all of that 6 foot addition, will be house, i~ will be entry, which is 90 square feet. We're proposing the shed which is 10 by 12 and open to debate tonight. That gives us a total of 2,035 square feet, which is an additional 514 square feet on the property. CHAIRMAN: Of lot coverage. DIANE HEROLD: Yes, including the accessory building, the porches and the main structure. CHAIRMAN: But basically, 394 in actual addition of the house. Subtracting the 120. DIANE HEROLD: 899 to 1459. CHAIRMAN: Yes, ok. Is there some sort of site plan, you could give us in the near future, that we could put in the file, that would indicate whatever we intend to grant here tonight, we'll put it in. DIANE HEROLD: Certainly. CHAIRMAN: So that we have it because this is a very busy situation here. DIANE HEROLD: It's a small lot and we're asking for relief from you. CHAIRMAN: So what we will do, we'll more than likely address this tonight, and not at this particular moment, but after the hearings. We will try and take the concerns that we were dealing with, and the changes that you were anticipating, to consideration. We will eliminate the garage, that wilt be demolished. Somewhere in the near future, you'll come back with an application, after you construct the Page 25 - October 17, I996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA house, for a storage building in whatever yard area we're talking about. It's basically in the same area that the garage was. DIANE HEROLD: We're talking about 10 by 12. It doesn't necessarily have to be those dimensions. CHAIRMAN: Right. DIANE HEROLD: Depending on what the board decides. CHAIRMAN: That is correct. Any questions Ladies and Gentlemen? MEMBER DOYEN: No MEMBER TORTORA: No. CHAIRMAN: All right, Bob? MEMBER VILLA: No, I'd just like to know where it's protruding on the lot, you know. If we had something to scale everything. In other words, we're still trying to position this thing, right. I'd like to have someway of location it, so that we know exactly what we're talking about. CHAIRNiAN: Ok, then what you can do for us Diane is this. Since you're still here, take same paper out by the copy machine, and just sit down and scale the house on it, and then give it to us. DIANE HEROLD: What do you want, setbacks in other words. CHAIRMAN: Everything as it exists, based upon the new plan that you know. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Proposed. CHAIRMAN: Yes, proposed new plan as you know it now, and just give it to us, all right? DIANE HEROLD: Well basically, that's the way it's drawn on the survey that we've submitted to you. CHAIRMAN: Right. DIANE HEROLD: The ordy thing I can do, is give you a scale and say, ok, we're this many feet. CHAIRMAN: That's what we need. We really can't read it. DIANE HEROLD: Because I know that you asked me for the distance on the East side. CHAIRMAN: Right DIANE HEROLD: From the water. Page 26 - October ]7, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: Right. DIANE HEROLD: Which I'd given you. CHAIRMAN: Right. DIANE HEROLD: But unless I know what the board is proposing, as far as moving the building, I can't give you what the proposed would be. CHAIRMAN: OK. DIANE~ HEROLD: But I'd more than wilHng. I have an extra survey. I'll just draw on the other side of that. CHAIRMAN: OK, great. DIANE HEROLD: And do you want us to just present that, or would you like to hear us again, or just. CHAIRMAN: No, we won't. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: There is an original in here and he wasn't looking at an original. CHAIRMAN: I was reflecting Bob's concern. You have this original, right Bob? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: There's one original in the file at all times. You get a photocopy. CHAIRMAN: You have a copy of that original, right? MEMBER VILLA: That one shows. DIANE HEROLD: This is the same one that you're looking at, that shows the two additions. CHAIRMAN: Right. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It's hard to photocopy, you know and read it. It's the only thing. DIANE HEROLD: I realize that. CHAIRMAN: Is that all right to work with? MEMBER VILLA: Yes, we can work with that. CHAIR1VLiN: OK, we can work it out so, we're all set. DIANE HEROLD: So, you ( ). So then, if you would just let me know what the board proposes. Page 27 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: Right. DIANE HEROLD: I'd he more than willing to submit. CHAIRMAN: OK. DIANE HEROLD: A new dimension drawing to it, and if you feel that we have to come for your next hearing, we'd be more than willing to do that also. CHAIRMAN: OK, we'd have to reopen it then, because I intentions of closing it right now. DIANE HEROLD: Oh, you do. have SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, we might not have to. DIANE HEROLD: OK, all right thank you. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any objection to closing this hearing? MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN: OK, all right. Thank you very much. Nice to see you Mr. Murphy. I'll make a motion closing the hearing, and making decision later. All in favor, aye. ******************************************************************** 8:07 p.m. Appl. No. 4427 - WILLIAM P. SCHOLL. Waivers requested for three substandard lots, each with an existing dwelling, which have joined due to common ownership after 7/1/83 at Bungalow Lane and Center Street, Mattituck. CHAIRMAN: Ms. Moore, how are you tonight? PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Fine, thank you. We had a, this application seems to grow on it's own, and everyday I would find out something new, as it's been going from day one. We discovered the 1953 deed, thanks to Linda, and I don't want to say for her assistance, because it was appropriate so. But, in 1953 I got this week from the Title Company, and we discovered as to Lot 18. CHAIRMAN: Yes. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: William and Violet Scholl were the owners hack since '53, and they conveyed two months before Williams death, the property to Philip. So they maintained the properties in single and separate ownership. So, what we believed, based on the Town's records, of the name which is William Scholl, we discovered that it was in fact, it had been preserved as single and separate. So that eliminates one from our discussion, unless you have specific questions. I won't deal with that aspect of it. Page 28 - October ]7, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: So that's lot 18. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Lot 18. CHAIRMAN: OK PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: So what we'll left with is lot ]7.1 and 17.2. Both of these properties were originally bought by William Scholl Jr., the Grandfather. I have Frank with me here today. I promised I wouldn't make him talk, but he's here just in case, you have a question that I can't answer. CHAII~MAN: OK PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: So Grandfather bought these two properties. There were houses, they were divided into Lot 17.] was bought in '43, lot 17.2 was bought in '46 and thereabout. The houses, the cottages were built, and the family mair~tained these properties all throughout. It appeared that in '73, from the Assessor's records. In '73 the Assessor's put the two tax parts together, and we discovered that very scientifically, the Assessor's office because there was a staple mark that matched, and that's the only reason we would have known that. They staples the two cards together, and then the addition of the two assessments matched exactly. They added the two. The Scholl's never realized the significance of it, because the taxes remained the same. Instead of two separate bills, they were getting one bill, with the same amount and nobody complained. I'll deal with 17.1, which was under contract. Apparently, the contract fell through, but we're still proceeding with the application, because ultimately they will sell the property property CHAIRMAN: They will sell. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: That property was retained by William Scholl Jr. the Grandfather, until his death. Then after his death, it was conveyed through the will, that his two Sons get it. The two Sons then transferred the property to, I'm sorry. The two Sons have retained the property. They are the ones that want to sell the property. ]7.2 is the adjacent piece, and you have all the dimensions and everything in your files, so we won't go into elaborate detail on that. But that property was sold by William Scholl back in 19. The estate sold it in 1992 to Frank Scholl, and Frank obtained a mortgage which was from Suffolk County National Bank. So Suffolk County National thought that this was a viable piece of property. The property was improved, and I think that those who may have gone to see it, or made inspections at different times. It's a very lovely little home, that Frank Scholl and his family live in. We have tried to put together a description of the property, and survey's to the extent that we could. The properties that are Page 29 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA owned by the two Son's, obviously were improved. They got survey's and the meets and balances are very clear. Lot 17.1 was described in the original deed as lot 45 of the Maratooka Park Subdivision, Section B, never filed. I called all the surveyor's that I could think of. None of them had a copy when we discovered this problem, and I'm still searching it out. The County records didn't have it, and for some reason , this section of the Maratooka Park subdivision, is very difficult to locate. But we did, I asked the Scholl's if the two brother's work at Riverhead Building Supply. I called enough times, I should know that by heart. They work at Riverhead Building Supplies, so I thought, the two of them very competent can go out and make a meets and balance. A setback description, and the description of the property, where everything is, and that's what we submitted to you. If you have any questions in respect to those descriptions, we're here hopefully to answer them. Just so you're aware, the tax bills that have been coming essentially from '89 on, when the estate after the death of Grandfather, transferred the property. The tax bills reflect that as to 17.1, which is the property that is essentially the same condition it's been in, other than a handicapped ramp in the back. It's pretty much in it's original condition. That the assessment has $2,236 and change. The property that has been improved 17.2, the taxes have gone up to $3,603. and change. So, the properties have been, at least the ones that have been improved, have been significantly assessed. They have been treated as separate properties, and the Scholl family (unfinished sentence). Grandfather Scholl only lived in one house. He had the other two properties for his family. First the Son's lived in there as their Summer home, and their recreational time, and then the properties were conveyed to the Grandchildren, to the Grandson's, and there the ones that are living there today. So the intent has always been, to retain these properties in the family. These are improved with homes on them, and we're here today to try to get relief from the merge provision of the code. Specifically, the standards are all met. This will not increase the density of the neighborhood. The properties were developed, and the same number of people are essentially living there. The waiver would not recognize the lot. It is inconsistent with the size of the other lots in Maratooka Park. Most of the properties in that area are approximately, anywhere from 80 by 200, so they're very standard lots. The development was, the original Maratooka Park (changed tape). Certainly the waiver will avoid economic hardship. The properties have been transferred at this point. They have been mortgaged, they have been improved. Their family is living in it, and what's left is, the house that remains with the estate, and that property will hopefully be sold, and it certainly would be a significanthardship, financial hardship, if it could not be sold by the estate. The contours and details of the property will not change Page 30 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA in any way. These are improved properties, and all that can happen is, the preexisting house will be bought by someone who intends to improve it, and make it look even better than it is today. So, with that in mind I hope you will grant the waiver. CHAIRMAN: OK, Mrs. Tortora has a problem with finding the deed, se we're going with her first. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: OK. MEMBER TORTORA: I confess that I went down, and I looked at the properties. I looked at the deeds, and I started off by seeing 1380 and th~n 1260 for lots 17.1. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Which lots are we talking about. MEMBER TORTORA: Lot 17.1 formally lot 45. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: OK, I had them separated because there's so much paper work here. What I think we, is it possible. I looked at it this way, and I don't say that you didn't. But certainly I didn't. I looked at the diagram, and I looked at it as 89. It should be 68. I don't know which way you were reading. MEMBER TORTORA: I'm reading the deed description. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Oh, the deed description. MEMBER TORTORA: Mrs. Moore, if you look at what I've prepared, my questions are very succinct. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Oh, all right. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Could I have those? Is that for the permanent file. MEMBER TORTORA: Would you like a copy? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, I need one in the file. Thank you. MEMBER TORTORA: Our newest board member did a crack job here, on her computer. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: I was going to say, is this all original stuff? Oh my goodness. MEMBER TORTORA: Essentially, the question is below. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: Apparently, the original deed description of lot 45, indicates that lot 16 was 85.8 feet from the center and that lot 45, which is now Lot 17.1 was 85.8, which is a total of 172 feet Page 31 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA approximately. The deed describes that, the beginning of that lot 17.1 began 172 feet from the Southeast corner of Center Street. However, the 1993 survey which you submitted, indicates that the beginning of lot 17.2, which is also the corner, is 154 feet from the Southeast corner. So what I'm saying here is, I don't know. You can't locate the survey. I don't know. My concern is primarily that, if indeed lot 17.2 begins 154 feet from the Southeast corner of Center Street, is a proposed lot line going through. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: 1380 Bungalow Lane. PATRI~IA MOORE ESQ: Put it this way, I said to myself. I don't know how, and these are. The one deed is almost a handwritten deed from '43. MEMBER TORTORA: Yes. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Partly hand written. The description starts out with the lot on this map, and then goes through, and does a little, try's to do a better job on that meets and balances description, without much effort. So, I don't give too much credence to the description that's in this deed. I did ask the family, I said. Is it possible that when it was split back up, that it was not done to the original lines, and they said, oh no. It was split were WilliamScholiJr, the Grandfather had originally acquired the property. It stayed the same, because he would be the one effected. He'd get 21 feet more. MEMBER TORTORA: Yes. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Which is not bad, but I proposed the question to you. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: See, there's markers there. There are concrete markers in there, that have been there since I was a kid. So it hasn't changed any, in their future anyway. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: The surveyor that we have for his property, from. Is it Peconic Surveyors, ! believe. Yes, that the one. There is a typo, either or a measuring error, or something. MEMBER TORTORA: Yes, there's also a problem with that survey, because lot 16 is not indicated on the lot, and if you look at the survey, you'll see that the land North, which is technically 17A now, formally lot 45. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Right. MEMBER TORTORA: Includes frontage of 154.13 feet, which is impossible. Page 32 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: That's not the entire, no. 154 is from the corner. MEMBER TORTORA: Right. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: OK, so. MEMBER TORTORA: So where is lot 167 PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: 16 is not shown there. They have done a hatch mark that show's approximate distance. MEMBER TORTORA: OK. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: And it takes from the corner a starting place, 154.13 to the marker. It doesn't tell you how many lots are in that distance between, in that 154 feet. So they're going, the surveyor is taking it strictly by the marker, and the fact that we don't have a survey. MEMBER TORTORA: From what I understand, that's what I thought . PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: OK. MEMBER TORTORA: No problem. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Good. MEMBER TORTORA: The only thing I'm concerned about, is when the two Sons Franklin and, drew this little map for us, of there estimated distance of the existing house, the original bungalow. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Right. MEMBER TORTORA: They estimated that it was three feet from the property line, I think, correct. CHAIRMAN: Yes, that's correct. MEMBER TORTORA: And again, without a survey it's awfully difficult to estimate, and I'm just reluctant to make a decision on this, without a survey of the property, and there's no CO on that property either. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: I'm not sure about that. No, only because when the CO, because I went back and forth on whether that CO from '61, was from which lot it belonged, and from the Building Department records, it came from 17.1 and the reason I think it does belongs to 17.1 is that, 17.2 has a pre CO that was issued. Had they found that CO in the file, they wouldn't have issued a pre CO So, I'm coming to conclusion, based on documents coming from all directions. That's why I say, this seemed to be a simple application, turned into a hair ball. Page 33 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER TORTORA: There is apparently some decrepitly in the '61 CO. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes MEMBER TORTORA: The only thing that led me to believe, is what I put in my note there. In fact, the building permit reference, refers to the prior lot, if you look at the record on there. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: MEMBER TORTORA: identiqal. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes, they have a 2 (unfinished sentence). The 19, yes. The same permit number, The two properties I think, were built very close in time. So we're going back to '61 Town records. So the accurately of the filing system,, and whether or not it was put in the right file, whether it was filled out properly. We're guessing at this point. MEMBER TORTORA: I know. CHAIRMAN: In selling this property though, you are going to get a pre CO. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Yes, have you applied for it yet. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Well actually, I take that back. They thought the '61 CO. CHAIRMAN: Was the pre CO. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Was the CO for the ( ). SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's not a pre CO. That was for the kitchen, I understand or something. A kitchen added on. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: original. Was there a kitchen addition on that house? Yes, there was. OK, so we may need a pre CO for the CHAIRMAN: But my point and question. Why don't you get a CO for the whole dwelling, because you need it anyway. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: estate. That's fine. I'm not the Attorney for the CHAIRMAN: For the estate, ok. You're only, ok. Page 34 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: I'm only dealing with this end of it. CHAIRMAN: OK, but if you were to suggest that to the Attorney, then we could get that, and this would clear up that particular portion of it. PATRICiA MOORE ESQ: That's fine. We can get a pre CO. That's not a problem. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: No problem. CHAIR~IAN: What else, that's it. MEMBER TORTORA: sentence). Just to establish some kind of (unfinished CHAIRMAN: Subject. MEMBER TORTORA: You got it. CHAIRMAN: That the house is on the property. MEMBER TORTORA: Lot line. MEMBER VILLA: It's going to show up on your survey anyway. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: The only way to do that is, to get an accurate survey. You know, so, MEMBER VILLA: She is going to need it for her sale anyway. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: No, usually the buyer gets the survey. MEMBER TORTORA The buyer usually foots the bill for that. Do you have any suggestions, how we could address that? I mean, we can recognize original lot lines described in the deed. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: That's as good as an Assessor. CHAIRMAN: The other way to do it is very simply, have the surveyor come back on this Gentlemen's property, and put his particular lot lines back. He indicates that they may be there. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: The back ones not. But on my Grandfather's property there was two, and I ran a string to each one, and I measured to the house. The house and then all those figures add up, to the same size as the piece of property. The house figures, the figures from the property line to the North side of the property line, and from the house to the South property Hne. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Which is how much? How much would it be for all of them? Page 35 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: I don't know. I don't have the papers in front of me. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Do you want this? MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: I think it's a (unfinished sentence).. MEMBER TORTORA: You're talking, it's 17 more. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: The property is 83, and from the North side to, the North side of the house is 44 feet. Then you have 24 feet of house, and then you have 15 feet, from the front part of the house. From the back part of the house you have, it would be 44 feet, 24 feet, plus the addition of 12 feet, and then 3 feet, and that should add up to 83. So, that's angular. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Oh. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's 86 on the other end, so. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: Yes, but that's an angle. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: I asked the same question. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, ok. 86 is the road frontage. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: Right. CHAIRMAN: Well the basic question is, are you going to accept it or aren't you? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Could we have another board member suggestions on it? MEMBER TORTORA: Do you have any other suggestions? CHAIRMAN: You know, I have to be honest with you. I mean, if there's an encroachment, there's an encroachment. What are you going to do about it, it exists. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: From day one. CHAIRMAN: Yes, possibly the encroachment may be a zero lot line. I mean, we can deal with that within the guise of the decision and say, no further side yard reduction, or something of that nature. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Well, why don't we leave it. It would come back to you anyway. CHAIRMAN: Yes. Page 36 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: And you could choose at that time. They might say, we're going to cut back. When they remodel. If we get somebody that comes in, and wants to tear down the house and start over, that's one thing. If you get somebody who wants to remodel, and cut off some part of it. I deem to cut their opportunity to come to you and say, this is what I want to do, the Taz-MahaI that I want, rather than putting a limitation at this point. It is what it is, as it was built, or as it's shown on today's . CHAIRMAN: Site plan. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Pat, is the buyer going to want to buy it, with a house overlapping a lot line? PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: they get. At the right price, they'll take whatever SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: How will they know that, unless you do a survey. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: No, no they would have a survey. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: They would have to do a survey. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes, because most people apply with financing.. They would need a survey. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Then they will reconciliate the price, if the survey show's later, that it's overlapping. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Or they chop off or they don't. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK. CHAIRMAN: Yes Frank. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: I also tonight, I went home, and I measured the monuments, and the property line from Center Street. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: And the first property measured outright, and then I measured out my Grandfather's property and my property. Ail equalled out to what it's supposed to be on the paper. CHAIRMAN: So you think that three feet is about right. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: Yes. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: I would trust there (unfinished sentence). Page 37 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: As far as the line of property being in the wrong place, I don't think that is right either. I think the properties are right with ( ). PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: I would not generally send a client out to do the measurements unless I trust that, they are in the field that they could follow the practices, proper practices, and both he and his brother that did all this work, worked in the building trade, so that they're familiar with, true. MR. : I don't want to speak out of turn. CHAIRMAN: Sure. MEMBER DINIZIO: So I guess what we're looking at here. I mean, I'm looking at Lydia's thing and I see one mistake in that, this Lot 16 is probably not 85 feet. MEMBER TORTORA: Yes, apparently. MEMBER DINIZIO: If we do that, if we think of it that way then, your measurements that you took, would probably correspond what the deed actually says. I would think now ( ) unfinished sentence. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: And many times surveyors, I'll be the first one to tell you that, they do fudge a bit. MEMBER DINIZlO: Well, I imagine they would specifically, in a subdivision that's this old. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: So I mean,. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: If that straightened lines out, that may be curved, so. MEMBER DINIZIO: So I think we're back to almost square one as far as Lydia suggestion here. Except that, we have to accept something. I'm willing to accept, anybody that writes something down, and you're right Jerry. If you have to do a zero lot line, than what can you do. Unless they want to rip the house down and make the setbacks. CHAIRMAN: Yes, it's actually incumbent upon the new buyer. They're the ones that are going to have to suffer that loss. MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Because no bank is going to issue anything, and no power company is not going to issue any Title Insurance, without knowing exactly where the house is. Page 38 - October ~I7, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Right. CHAIRMAN: SO. MEMBER DINIZIO: You know, what we're probably agreeing to here is that in concept. We have a concept we want to agree to, which is that these two houses are actually houses, homes, lots, that people actually live in, and who they belong to is really secondary. CHAIRMAN: YES. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Well also, that they are the original lot lin~s from the original deeds. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes, they are. Right. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: And that's where they are. MEMBER DINIZlO: Well, I'm thinking of it in the contents of the law we're graveling with right now. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, well the law (unfinished sentence). PATRICIA MOOR]~ ESQ: Well first of all, you have houses on the property, and that to start with, I think is a flaw in the Legislation. MEMBER DINIZIO Well, if you read the law. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes absolutely, that's why I'm here. MEMBER DINIZIO: That's why I'm saying. MEMBER TORTORA: The only other thing that I thought of, might have happened because these deeds are so old, '43. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Right. MEMBER TORTORA: Is that maybe they widened Center Street, which encroached on lot #26, which is why #17, the frontage is the same but Il6 appears smaller. I don't know, it's just rough without the deed. I mean, the survey. MEMBER DINIZlO: It even looks smaller on the tax map. MEMBER TORTORA: Yes it does. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: And your also blowing up these lines, so that they themselves. MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, the lines are five feet. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes right, so it does create a problem. Page 39 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: Do you have a question Frank. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: Actually on lot 16 from the property line to Center Street, there is about 15 feet of grass. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. FRANKLIN SCHOLL: From the markers to Center Street itself. MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, this is about it. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It looks right. CHAIRMAN: Serge any questions? MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN: No, anybody else want to speak for or against this application? OK, seeing no hands I'll make a motion, do you want to close it or grant it? MEMBER TORTORA: Reserve decision. CHAIRMAN: Close and reserve decision until later. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Thank you. CHAIRMAN: All in favor aye. Page 40 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 8:33 p.m. Appl. No. 4422 - D & D CYCLES, INC. as TENANT. (Pudge Corp., Owner). This is a request for a Special Exception under Articte XX111, Section 100-131B(8) for permission to sell, with temporary outdoor display of "marine items" (ref: Section 100-239.6), relative to Unit #8 at 22355 C.R. 48, Cutchogue, NY; Portion of Parcel #1000-84-1-26.3. CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of the original site plan, indicating the area's that the applicant wishes to display and marine items. A copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map. What do you have for me? Would you state your name for the record? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: William Droskoski. CHAIRMAN: OK, and what do you want to tell us? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: All I want to do is to be able to display my products out front. To be able to sell them and put them away at the end of the day, like I've been doing for four years. There's never an eye sore really. I'm kind of tucked in the corner that any exposure I can deal with directly that's out on Cox Lane, just kinds of draws business. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: So that's normal there. CHAIRMAN: Are we talking normally wave runner or what are we talking about? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes, water craft, waverunner. CHAIRMAN: Yes, sorry. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Polaris, right? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes, that's right. CHAIRMAN: In the area that you highlight, how many of these items are you discussing? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: I usually put about six to eight. Somewhere in between that. CHAIRMAN: Right, so some would be on the buffer area, and some would be within the parking space area. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: When you say the buffer area, are you saying the grass? CliAIRMAN: Yes. Page 41 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: No, not on the grass. Laurie Dowd and myself already spoke about that. We got that out of the way, and decided not to do that. We're just basically just staying on the blocked pile. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: He was asked not to put it on the buffer area. CHAIRMAN: I still have to ask the question? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK. I'm just informing you. CHAIR~IAN: Thank you. Are these ever tested out there, in any way. Or are they very simply for display purposes. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Just display. Mere or less just a way, you know. I don't have any window space or anything, that I can display the product. So, just my way of hopefully just catching on, so that they can see that I'm there. CHAIRMAN: All right. OK, we'll go with Mr, Villa first. MEMBER VILLA: I was just reading a letter from the Planning Board, basically stating that this. They feel that this is taking up space that's set aside for parFdng, which according to them is at a minimum for this type of structure. Now~ how do we contend with that ? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: No, the only thing I can say is, there's hardly any tenants in there anyway. I'm about the, there's not many. There's only two or three. MEMBER VILLA: Well what happens if it does fill up. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Well hopefully, I'm going to be moving because I need space. I'm at the point right now that I'm going to end up leaving anywhere soon, and go into another building where I can go ahead. But right now, it's actually something that has come basically to a head and the Town said. Listen, you have to apply for this, and do this. At least, because apparently it's from marine sales too. I'm not allowed to sell marine products there also. So that's also the other thing. Accordingly, when I came in here and paid my fine, I never filed for Special Exception, $650.00. That also, I might not even be able to do that in the business that I'm at. Do that in the building that I'm even at. This is another thing also. So, it's not only just saying you can't do this. I might not be able to run my business out there. So, it doesn't make any sense to me. There's only three people there doing water craft sales, and that's about it. MEMBER VILLA: So basically what you're saying is, you're looking for something temporary. Page 42 - October I7, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: No, I will stay there if, of course, the price is right, because right now it's in foreclosure and everything else. That's another whole issue in itself. But, right now I have to exist till May. So temporary this is up, and I don't know what the status of the building is going to be anyway. MEMBER VILLA: Right. I got the impression that you were looking for another site, because you were expanding. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Oh no, no. Just right now just saying, because of what's going on with the building itself. CHAIR~MAN: Yes, ok. Mrs. Tortora. MEMBER TORTORA: You've applied for sailing display of Marine items. Permitted use by Special Exception. I'm reviewing your application in conjunction with present use of service and repair. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes. MEMBER TORTORA: When I was on the site the other day, I'm not up on all these vehicles. Some of them looked like they could be in the water, others looked like altering vehicles. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Right the ATV. Apparently the ATV is OK. I'm allowed to do that. Which to me is, I have no idea why, but that's what they had told me. MEMBER TORTORA: Who had told you that ATV are ok. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Basically the Town, when I first had gone through this whole process, and anyway they never wrote me up for any of that. They said, motorcycle repairs, and also the altering vehicles basically it's a vehicle, on land vehicle, was allowed. This closing marine repair falls under a different jurisdiction, I guess you'd call it. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: right. It was Ed Forrester enforcement, MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Right, the Town Investigator. He said, that that was fine. It's just the marine items. MEMBER TORTORA: We have no correspondence from Mr. Forrester in the file. We have a note that was submitted today. But we have nothing in writing from Mr. Forrester. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: would give a memo to the board. needed it. That's because he asked me, if I He'd be willing to give it, if you MEMBER TORTORA: That would be a good idea, if you could just, (unfinished sentence). Page 43 - October 17, ]996 Transcript of Hearings Southeld Town ZBA MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Well it's just the article. Well ok. I'm just saying the application was for marine. If I put out a motorcycle or whatever too, does that mean that I would have to get a special. You know what I'm saying, I don't understand. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: There's also another thing. There's a copy of the violation in the file that Ed Forrester gave us. So, he's showing that's what he based the referral to the ZBA on. MEMBER DINIZIO: The decision on. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes, it's just the marine. it's not zoned to be marina sales. Supposedly, MEMBER TORTORA: The area that you have indicated for display purposes, just tell me a little bit about that. You take the (unfinished sentence). MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: I open up at 9 and usually about 9:30, I'm pretty well done bringing out the units, and putting them out front. I just bring them back about close to 6:30. It's usually about 7 o'clock and there back inside Monday through Saturday. There never out on Sunday's, because I'm off Sunday, and that's it. I just put them away and bring them out. MEMBER TORTORA: How many parking spaces is there? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: It usually works out to be four. CHAIRMAN: Is it necessary for you to put it forward of a parking space area, that's X, within the confines of the parking space. I noticed that you went into the asphalt area. I mean, I understand how many people are there, and I know. I go by the place, not withstanding that fact, ok. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Right. CHAIRMAN: But can you confine it to a parking space area? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes, I mean actually today I was putting the stuff actually in the back. When they come around that bend, heading from Orient, you actually ean kind of catch them. Yes, that would be fine over there, because there's no trees again, there's nothing there, so it's pretty much good. The other thing is too, when Jim used to own it, they had a big "For Rent Sign", which used to block clot of things, which isn't there anymore. Yes, I could keep it in the back, right to those little spots there. That works out fine for me. I just need them out there because, if there no out there, people don't even know I'm there. I mean, I get more people that come back in and just say, I didn't know that you repair or you work on them, whatever. It's just a big plus.. Probably the best form of advertising I can do. Page 44 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: Sorry to jump on your parade Mrs. Tortora, ok. you want to ask a question? Do SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Actually there was something else, that Ed was saying. I mentioned in the memo, about his uses for a workshop, and he does repair, and you're allowed to have accessory sales, as long as it's in relation to the workshop. So, that's why he's also allowed to display those items outside. Based on the new provision that was added in July. The temporary outdoor display. MEMBER TORTORA: That's Ed opinion. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, and the Town Attorney's opinion too. MEMBER TORTORA: Well if that's the case Linda, I think we should have something to that effect, from the Town Attorney, and from Mr. Forrester in writing. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Well it's up to the board, what they decide to do. MEMBER TORTORA: I'd like to see that in writing. MEMBER DiNIZIO: Well it certainiy is in writing, it's in the law. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It is. MEMBER DINIZIO: It's part of the new law that they pass Summer, concerning the Tank Museum, and those. that. passed, this It's part of SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It is. MEMBER TORTORA: If we could just take the piece out of the law, and make a copy of that. Certainly if you want to hand it out and discuss it, you certainly can. But if Ed Forrester is not here to testify as to his, whatever he wants. I feel a little uncomfortable about Linda asking questions for him, off of his memo. MEMBER TORTORA: Well I agree. MEMBER DINIZIO: Assuming we read his memo. So, we're all aware. MEMBER TORTORA: TI)is isn't his memo. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well it's from the Town Attorney, his decision. The thing is, I feel a little uncomfortable trying to question this Gentlemen, without having the person who made the decision here, and it's fairly clear cut. I my opinion it's clear cut, as to specifically why he's here. Which is for, because the Town has a little bit of trouble with the wording of that law, in that marine is allowed in other areas. The problem isn't that it's against the law, where you are. The problem is that it's allowed in other areas, and Page 45 ~ October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA so somehow these people in there way of thinking, can't imagine that being in your area, for some reason or another. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes MEMBER DINIZIO And that's why. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, that's the attitude. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: The other thing to, the reason why I had started there four years ago. It was more or less, going to be parts and accessories for motorcycles, because we were approved for Yamaha. Dealership when we built that building up on the other side . CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Which is now sitting there vacant, because the Town took a hard nose on me and my partner at the time. So you know, that's another whole issue in itself, which has left a little bit of bad taste. So I'm sorry if I get a little bitter. But anyway now, what I'm trying to do is, display a few machine out there, just so people know that I'm here, and I put them away at night, and it's cost me almost $1400.00 just to put machines out. I mean, I understand what you're saying. We want everything to ( ). It's really no big deal. We're trying to make this into. We're only putting away, six or seven machines at night. They don't sit out there. I'm sorry that I get aggravated. ! just think this (unfinished sentence). CHAIRMAN: We're just trying to understand it. We understand the reason why you want it. I mean, it's black and white. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: You were told to come here. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes I was. SECRETARY LINI)A KOWALSKI: Basically that's why you're here. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: When I paid my fine according to Laurie Dowd, it was a formality. Just go through it, they're no big deal. We went to the Planning Board several times to ask them, if there was anything that we need from you. I mean, we sat there, actually got into a little bit of argument between two people. I mean literally, one saying you need this, and the Planning Board saying, "no you don't". You do not need this, fine. We just want to make sure we're doing it correctly, so we don't have to go through this again. Again, go to Laurie Dowd office, all three of us, they all talked, everything is fine. We don't need anything. All I had to do is go to this, go this way. That was it. That is what I was told. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's right. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: And I paid my fine, and I did all that, and then I come here and I understand what you're saying. Page 46 - October 17, Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 1996 Everybody wants to understand it, but we have tried to do that, and you see aiot of people do try to do all that, and it's always between two office's. Somehow we have to work this together and get this done. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I think you even went to the Building Department, and spoke to somebody there. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: That's right. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: And they told you. here for, you have a CO. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes, I mean. What are you SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: You know, so it's confusing. CHAIRMAN: This building is in receivership right now? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Your dealing with someone other than Mr ( ). MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Mr. William Kelly, we just paid him, and that's the way it goes. CHAIRMAN: Is he a court appointed receiver? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes. So that's what I'm saying. So when I said to Mr. Villa, it's not a matter of whether I want to move or not. It's just that, I don't know where it's going to be at. I don't want to make it sound like I'm keep it going, or build it any bigger. I don't know what's going to happen. MEMBER VILLA: No, I just got the impressing that you were looking at someplace else. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes, you hear from tenants, and they're only a few tenants in there, and everybody's like, well I don't know who to send my check to. Sometimes we don't even get our monthly statements. MEMBER VILLA: A question I have. You said, you put six or eight vehicles out there? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: Could you live with a limit, say like four that you could occupy. Say one or two parking spaces, so we know we're not, three or four parking spaces? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Well the only thing is that for example, every year they come out with different models, and what I'd like to Page 47 ~ October 17, Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 1996 do say for example, watercraft. They came ou~ with eight. That's usually what I put out there. At least one of each model. MEMBER VILLA: Basically, you're just trying to attract people's attention that your there. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: That I'm there. MEMBER VILLA: So you don't need all eight out there, that I can see, I mean, if they see something and they're that interested, they're going to go whether there's one or eight. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Right. MEMBER VILLA: Now, I'm looking at the comments the Planning Board, and you know it's right. If we grant you something, then somebody else comes in there, it can snowball. But you know right now, you're the only tenant, but whose to say down the line, that could not be a problem. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: And if you have everybody occupying two or three parking spaces, the you have a major problem. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes MEMBER VILLA: So, if we could limit you in some way. If you could live with a set number, that we know what we're taking up. At least, then we could (unfinished sentence). MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Well, do you want to give me a square footage or whatever, out of knowing what the size of the parking spots are. That would be fine with me. CHAIRMAN: I kind of like three parking spaces. MEMBER VILLA: Three. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: How many units are in there. CHAIRMAN: Whatever he can fit in three parking spaces. MEMBER VILLA: No I'm saying, how many units are in the building? CHAIRMAN: I would have to look at the original site plan. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Well that would also depend on, how many units are not obtainable to take. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I think there are 22 units Bob. Page 48 - October ]7, ]996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER VILLA: Well I'm just looking at that. If you grant this unit, and then every unit comes in and asks for their three. CHAIRMAN: Well it's only (unfinished sentence). MEMBER VILLA: And that's 66 parking spaces. CHAIRMAN: Well, we're going to deal with it on a temporary basis. We are going to put restrictions within it. So, it will be tied to his lease, and so on and so forth. MEMBER TORTORA: Are you going to tie to his lease a time frame. CHAIRMAN: Yes, a time frame and tied to his lease. So that when he moves out ( unfinished sentence). SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Kind of like A1 Remember when we did that (to members)? I don't know if you were hero, Bob. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: I just don't want to spond another $650.00, SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That was the fine. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: That was the fine.. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: He had paid the fine twice. CHAIRMAN: It's ridiculous. MEMBER TORTORA: The only problem I'm having is, among other things. I'm fully aware that the Town board created a provision in the code, for the display of merchandise in the business districts. This is an LIO Zone,. Now, there's no mention of LIO in 100-2396 I believe it is. This board has not made an interpretation of that part of the code. Some people say yes, that this area was meant to be included. Others feel, no it isn't. That is an area that this board is going to have to address in this application. So that's one thing. As far as the Building Inspector's interpretation of the code, I personally would like. I have not spoken to the Building, excuse me, the enforcement officer. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Right. MEMBER TORTORA: I haven't spoken to him about this application. Nor have I spoken to the Town Attorney about this application. So, for our record I would like something in writing directing him. We have, we're prepared by our assistant who does. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: What would you like the memorandum to say, so that we could be more specific. Page 49 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER TORTORA: Essentially, why he had said," sales in display of marine items", in conjunction. Now that has been just changed to sales, Could you explain that for us Linda? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK, just for the record thank you. CHAIRMAN: Jim, do you have anything else? MEMBER DINIZIO: You don't have any objection to setting a time limit on it? You know, tied to your lease. CHAIRMAN: A time limit lease. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: What do you mean, as far as the time outside? MEMBER DINIZIO: The time out, no. In other words, there's going to come a time, from what I hear now, that at some poir/t in time, you're not going to be able to do that any longer, unless you apply to us I assume, or we redo it. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It would be renewable with his lease. Each time you renew your lease, it's automatically renewed for the Special Exception. But when your lease expires, the approval would expire. In other words, when you leave the next person coming in would have to reapply. CHAIRMAN: Is not going to get it. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Thai would be fine with me, I mean. Can we do it by mail, or do we have to come in? MEMBER DINIZlO: Well, if you signed the lease. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: By mail. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, if he proves he has a lease, then. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's right. Just have to prove you have a lease. MEMBER DINIZIO: It's not like you have to come to us. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Just give a new lease. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes, I have no problem with that. My lease is up, I think it's up in May. So, we're only looking at eight months anyway. CHAIRMAN: Yes, but if you renew it, so you send us a letter, and that's it. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's right. Page 50 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes, and that's fine with me. I just want to be seen, that's all. You can't put a big sandwich sign out there, you knob- what I mean. MEMBER DINIZIO: What if he sells the business? CHAIRMAN: Well, we'll put that in the decision. Its' going to be incumbent upon the new tenant to come in , and reestablish it. MEMBER DINIZIO: So the new tenant will have to reestablish it. CHAIRMAN; Right. MEMBER DINIZIO: Even if it's the same business? CHAIRMAN: Yes, it's like a Bed & Breakfast. It's like all the rest of them. MEMBER DINIZIO: OK, I want him the know that. I don't want him selling his business and saying. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: I'm planning on being here a long time. I don't plan on selling it, so. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: You have to remember, it's not the owner that's applying, it's the tenant. So, only the tenant gets the approval. CHAIRMAN: That's right. MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm just concerned. I don't want you to feel like. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: No, that's fine. I'm glad you brought it up. MEMBER DINIZIO: You could say, oh yes, you eould display your stuff out there, and find that, no you cannot. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: I want you to be aware of that, you know. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: As long as your not selling it. CHAIRMAN: A good deal of your business is tied to you. It's not tied to anybody else. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Exactly, and the thing is as you can tell, if there's ( ) There's no windows anywhere. We can't even put a display, even in the window. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's right. Page 51 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSK!: there. It helps se much, just to put them out CHAIRMAN: Sure, OK. Serge any questions. MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN: While that would like to Madam. you're there, let's see if there is anybody else speak in favor or against this application? Yes MS. BARBARA KELLY: Barbara Kelly here. I don't know this Gentlemen, but it seems like, since the other units are not even being 'used, why not give him the opportunity to use these spaces, until they are filled up. There's certainly ample space there. CHAIRMAN: Yes. Thank you. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN: Yes Madam. Your name for the record. MAUREEN TUTHILL: Environmental Council. Maureen Tuthill with the North Fork CHAIRMAN: Yes. MAUREEN TUTHILL: We wanted to urge you to deny this Special Exception. We understand that the code change that took place in July, applies to the business district, or commercial activity, and this is in light industrial zone. You were just saying, that you're not sure what the interpretation of this would be. There are some people who believe, that the outdoor display and storage should apply to this. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Well, I just want to mention. I did discuss it with Lydia Tortora earlier, but in the code under the LI Zone. If you look at the introductory paragraph. Does anybody have their code book with them? CHAIRMAN: No, we can read it. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: The first paragraph says, that the LI Zone is to promote business, uses, and industrial uses, ok, so that would apply, because you're allowed to have businesses in the LI Zone. MAUREEN TUTHILL: Is it part of the ( SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's my understanding with speaking with the Town Attorney, and the Building Department. So, there hasn't been any different interpretation at this point. So I guess that's what Lydia Tortora was saying. She might want to offer something different. I don't know, Page 52 - October 17, ]996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER TORTORA: discussing it, I don't have a comment. We were just SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: that introductory paragraph. bit, with what the intent is. OK, but if you look at the code, Try to familiarize yourself a little MAUREEN TUTHILL: I have an ex-it permit here, from Article 13. Is that what your referring to. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, the very first paragraph. MAUREEN TUTHILL: It says, the purpose of the light industrial park l~]an off this park district is to provide opportunity for the location of business, and professional offices. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: No, it's LI. Light industry, not LIO. It's LI. CHAIRMAN: It's LI. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It's an LI Zone. There was a mistake in the record, somewhere a]ong the way at the hearing earlier. It's LI. Do you want us to get the book for you? CHAIRMAN: We'll clear this whole thing right up. We'll get the code book, ok. MAUREEN TUTHILL: The reason actually . SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKh I'll go get it. You stay, because I have to get another tape anyway. CHAIRMAN: I think what we'll do at this point and we apologize. I think we'll take a short recess anyway because it's that time, all right. MAUREEN TUTHILL: There are two chapters in here. First I thought, this is my understanding that the code change applies to the business uses in the LI zone, and tlzis is in the LI Zone so we are mistaken, we apologize on that issue. CHAIRMAN: No problem. MAUREEN TUTHILL: The reason why we wanted to address it, because we were concerned in setting a bad prescient on the North Road. I mean, I guess everyone here knows that there have been numerous discussion about keeping the North Road open and rural and scenic. So we ask that if possible you could recess the hearing, or delay a decision, and' we could look into it a little more? Just so we have a opportunity to go into more depth about the implications of making a Special Exception for something like this. As Mr. Villa pointed out, it might snowball if we allow a Special Exception in one case, then what is the North Road going to look like? If it's Page 53 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA allowed by the code, I suppose that's one thing. But I didn't understand why he was applying for a Special Exception, if it was allowed by the code. CHAIRMAN: Because it's allowed for marine items by special exception. MAUREEN TUTHILL: OK, right. Just for marine items. MEMBER TORTORA: Just for marine items by Special Exception. CHAIRMAN: Just for marine items for Special Exception. CHAIRMAN: I would dearly like to clear it up tonight, and I have no problems giving you time to come back tonight. We have one more hearing to go. If you want to discuss it with anyone, or if you want to call someone, it's fine with me. MAUREEN TUTHILL: No, I don't think so. CHAIRMAN: OK, I mean we understand your situation, and we understand your concern. I understand it, but I would really like to clear it up tonight only because this Gentlemen has paid violations, and I want him to be able to go out in the near future, and say yes, he has cleared this problem up, so to speak. I don't know whether we will make a decision tonight, with the way things are going. But, we may or may not. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Lydia wanted a letter from. MEMBER TORTORA: I want to clarify that. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: And so did Jim. Actually, we have two members. MEMBER TORTORA: We both want that. CHAIRMAN: OK, so you want the letter. MEMBER DINIZIO: I don't want a letter from them. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKh I'm sorry, Jim doesn't want a letter. MEMBER DINIZIO: Certainly if the man wants to come and testify, then that's the right form. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK MEMBER TORTOEA: OK, I don't have any objection with that Jim. I just don't want to hear everything second hand. CHAIRMAN: Well you're still requesting a memo. Page 54 - October I7, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER DINIZIO: And I'm not requesting that he come. MAUREEN TUTHILL: We just respectfully request that you consider the implications of it. CHAIRMAN: Oh yes, definitely, and that's the reason why it's tied to a specific. If the motion is phrased, I'm not going to phrase the motion unless I have to, ok. But if the motion is phrased you're very welcome to sit here, and listen to the motion, all right. It would be tied to his lease and his lease only. It would be tied to a specific amount of parking spaee~ and if for some reason in the near future, the receiver of the bank that hold the mortgage on this proper.ry. I assume, I'm not assuming anything at this point, but I would think that in lieu of foreclosure, the person has given the deed back to the bank. In that particular ease, the receiver is in charge. If they intend to, as many banks have done, to deerease the lease rate on these buildings to make them more attractive, which many banks have done throughout Suffolk County. I am in the management property business for a municipality. Then we could verysimply have 10 or 12 more businesses at the site, whieh would mean that there maybe a greater need for parking at the site. So what you're saying is absolutely correct. So that is basically the situation. Thank you. MAUREEN TUTHILL: Thank you. MEMBER DINIZIO: Could I just ask her a question? Specifically what do you object to as far as this particular application. Not the implications of the entire North Road, but this specific one. MAUREEN TUTHILL: The outdoor display of "items for sale". MEMBER DINIZIO: OK, but that is part of the law, and I suppose. unfinished sentence) MAUREEN TUTHILL: We were under the impression that it was in the LIO Zoning, but it was LI. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: Not necessarily marine products. CHAIRMAN: Outdoor display of anything. MEMBER DINIZIO: An outdoor display of anything in this zone. CHAIRMAN: Right. MEMBER DINIZ10: Thanks. MEMBER VILLA: But the question that leads up to then is, where do they display it? You're not suppose to put it in the buffer zone, there not supposed to put it in the parking area. Where are they going to put it? Page 55 - October 17, Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 1996 CHAIRMAN: There is only one thing left, and that's the roof or the facade. That's it. Let's be pragmatic about the whole thing. That's the only thing left. MEMBER VILLA: Well I'm asking the question here. CHAIRMAN: I'm not being sarcastic Bob. The law has not directed us where. Do you know what I'm saying? It only makes sense, you can't put it in the asphalt ingress or egress area. So, the lesser of three evils has got to be within a confine parking space area. MEMBER TORTORA: That raises another thing. This is a approved site plan. CHAIRMAN: Right. MEMBER TORTORA: We are by way of this "Special Exception" then, granting him permission in essence, to revise that site plan in some CHAIRMAN: No you're not, if you're tying it to a time l~rnit and to the amount of activity that occurs within the building. If the property is vacant, meaning the sites for the parking are vacant, then there is no problem with this particular decision, if you so wish to go that way. If however, as I said to you. The lending institution intends to lessen the lease rates, and as of next May, even though we grant this, we can tied this to the occupancy of the facility, and we may have to renege this Special Exception. MEMBER TORTORA: I'm just concerned about the location. Is there any other location on the property that would not involve a parking area, where there's open spaces. Are there any other spaces that would be practical? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: No, there's only sidewalks and that's in front of each one's store. Everything else is all parking. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: There is one other thing. The code requires a minimum of 25 foot, landscape buffer in the front. The way that the temporary outdoor display is written it says, it shall not interfere with the minimum landscape buffer for area. So the minimum landscape buffer area would be 25 feet, and on the west end it's 40 feet deep, the buffer is. So there's an extra 15 feet of buffer area there. Just to let you know, that's the only other spot that I saw on there. CHAIRMAN: It's difficult to get to though. SECRETARY LINDA KOWLASKI: Well it's not difficult, it's still at the end of the parking lot. That's the West end, the Southwest end of the parking lot. CHAIRMAN: Is there any elevation problem there? Page 56 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southoid Town ZBA MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes, that's the highest point. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's right. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: I'd have to go up on the grass, and everything else, and it actually curls back, and that's right by Stew's Place. That's in ( ) Imports. That's down by his place. His customers park their cars there, and I'd feel much better not being that close to his. MR. : Security. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes that's true, security too. I'd rather have it in front of my store, if there is any theft. That just makes me feel better. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: How big is one of those vehicles? MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: There's only six feet. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Six feet by two feet. MR. WILLIAM DROSKOSKI: Yes, three feet, two feet. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Three feet by six. CHAIRMAN: The watercraft. OK, is there anybody else that has questions of this Gentlemen, or anybody else in the audience, concerning this application. We'll go with this Lady first. TERRY LESTER: As a tenant, isn't he entitled to one parking space for himself. CHAIRMAN: This is all figured in, in the original site plan. MS. TERRY LESTER: I thought he could at least use his own parking space, and then there's no big problem. CHAIRMAN: It was figured in the site plan, based upon the square footage of his building. How many people had, how many parking spaces with in. So, you're absolutely correct but, he probably has three or four parking spaces. MEMBER DINIZIO: Of course, he couldn't bring his truck to work. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Or park it in the back, right. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Foster, do you have a question. MR. FOSTER: Yes, I just want to say in his behalf. I've been in business in this Town for 25 years, and if there is any frustration that felt by business in this Town, or any Town of" can do" or "can't do", or jobs that your waiting for, that get held up in the bureaucratic process. Believe me, I've experienced it. I didn't Page 57 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA know from week to week, if I was going to work or I wasn't. Sometimes I was rich, sometimes I was poor. If you ride down that North Road now, and you come to a farm stand and he has pumpkins and corn, and things displayed out there, because that's what he does. This man sells ATV and watercraft's. Well, water is relative to the Island, and I don't shoot myself in the foot now by saying this but. Water is relative to the area. This is a place where people come to enjoy the water, water sports so forth and so on. We have boats sitting around on the corner of Factory and Wiekham Avenue, and 48 there, with a big sign on it. Now, that's a residential home. You know, I don't see a problem with a man under certain restrictions, displaying his wares and being able to be in business. God knows, every business man in this Town, thirsts for business people. Every time you turn around, there's another store closing. So I mean, you should give the man what he needs, to remain in business. He's already been there four years, and within reason, as long as it doesn't go crazy. But, it's what we need around here. We need existing businesses, and we need them to thrive, and we need people to come from other areas, to purchase his wares. To maybe, keep this building going, and get a few more tenants and bring more business people into Town. Pay some more taxes, you know. It's like recycling, it kind of goes around. So, whatever consideration you can give to him, I'm sure he will appreciate it. CHAIRMAN: Thank you Sir. Hearing no further comment I make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision. All in favor, aye. Page 58 - October 17, Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 1996 9:12 p.m. Deborah Dory Esq: Appl. #4426 JANET SWANSON, TRUSTEES for VIRGINIA MOORE-MOSS. Waivers requested for two substandard lots which have joined (or will join upon recent conveyance) due to common ownership after 7/1/83 at Hyatt Road, Southold. CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of two surveys, indicating the parcels in question, and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this, and surrounding properties in the area. How are you? DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: Fine, how are you? CHAIRMAN: We haven't seen you in a long time. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: Oh, just a couple of months I think. I was here on a variance for a shed. I have here the affidavit of posting. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Thank you. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ.: We had a small problem with the sign, in that it was in the road a couple of days, but we reposed it Tuesday morning. I believe we complied with the law, in terms of the time frame. We're here basically here because of the seagull, and that's a very strange way to start it. But, the board may recall that in the Summer of 1994, there was a horrible accident in Laurel, on the Main Road. CHAIRMAN: Yes there was, I was there. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: And two women were killed, and there was a young Gentlemen that was also killed. There was a seagull found in the back of the car. The two women own these parcels, and that's why we're here. Hyatt Road which is the first parcel that was purchased, and it's 1050 Hyatt Road. It was purchased in 1951 by Terry Haman. She almost immediately put up a house there, and resides there. In ~[962, September of '62 Terry and Ginny Moore, purchased the adjacent vacant land, which is '62 of an acre, and they held it as joint tenants from 1962 until late of 1976. The house property was solely owned by Terry Haman. In 1976, in December of that year, there were two, what appeared to be very carefully timed transactions. The first one was a deed dated December 3, 1976, by which Terry and Ginny transferred the vacant land to Ginny. So that Ginny owned that vacant land alone. After that deed was recorded, another deed was executed, and the house property was transferred from Terry to Ginny and Terry as joint tenants, with right of survivorship. So, the parcels were still separated by the owners. From December of '76 until July of 27, 1994, the two parcels remained as separate parcels, with the ownership being in that fashion. Terry predeceased Ginny by 47 minutes approximately. Page 59 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA By reason of the fact, that title was joint tenants, with right of survivorship, Ginny succeeded to ( ) interest to the house property, and became the sole owner of the property, and bingo, because of the 1995 law, it appears that the lots merged. So for almost 32 years, they kept them separate. They were very conscious about keeping them separate. In fact, about five weeks before they died, Ginny executed a mortgage to Terry on the vacant land property. If they had wanted to merge the property, they- could have. Ginny could have transferred an interest in the property to Terry, and they could have merged it. But no, they went by the mortgage route, to keep it separated, as two separate parcels. So there is really substantial evidence in the record, for all this period ~of time, 32 years, they keep them separate. We're seeking now to keep them separate. There is a Trust. There are 10 beneficiaries of that Trust. They are not for profit organizations, local as well as national organizations. Jan Swanson's responsibility as a Trustee, is to maximize the assets of the Trust, and to disburse as much of the funds as possible. If selling two parcels means, the Trust receives more money, and the beneficiary will receive more money. That's what the Trust wants to do. That's why we're here to get a merger, a waiver of merger. I'm sure some people will say, these are two environmentalist. They were very concerned about overbuilding, and the environment and everything like that. But it's very clear, that they kept it separate and they intended to keep them as separate parcels. So were asking that the board wave the merger in this case, because of the History. It's really a twist of faith, what happened here was two well meaning women, picked up a injured seagull in the parking lot in Riverhead, wrapped k in a red plaid blanket, from what I understand, put it in the back seat of their car, and drove through Laurel. Then the seagull apparently woke up, and that's what happened. So, that's why we're here, talking about the merger tonight, and in terms of development, yes it could mean one additional house there. It's an already developed area anyway. Right next to it, is the Park District, which is not really developed. Any questions? CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora. MEMBER TORTORA: No. CHAIRM~AN: No, Mr. Villa. MEMBER VILLA: Next to the park district, have there ever been approached as to whether they would be interested in this property? DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: No, we haven't approached them, because in order to do that, we would have to get all 10 of the beneficiaries to agree, to either accept their price. No, we have not talked to the Park District about it. We're here looking for guidance from the board at this point, to see what happens. That's a good idea, maybe they would buy it. Page 60 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER VILLA: Well, I was just thinking, there is not tha~ large, and there is always there. It might be an ideal situation. because their site up a traffic problem up DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: couldn't donate it. doubt it. It would have to be a purchase, because we Unless the 10 beneficiarie~ agreed to it. I MEMBER VILLA: You couldn't do that for tax purposes. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dinizio. MEMBER DINIZIO: No, no comment. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Doyen. MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN: OK. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I just want to mention one thing. In 1995 lsw on the waiver of merger, that allowed for a waiver to be applied for, instead of a subdivision. It didn't cause the merger. The merger goes back. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: Well, were seeking a merger. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK, yes. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: We're here seeking a waiver of the merger. SECRETARY LINDA because of that law. law, hopefully, right. KOWALSKI: OK, you said, it was merged It wasn't merged, it was waved because of that DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: Yes. I think that's up to the board, isn't it if it's waved. CHAIRMAN: else in the application? OK, while you're standing we'll ask, is there anybody audience that would like to speak for or against this OK. MR. JACK ALAIDE: Yes, I would like to say a few words. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. You come up and use the mike and state your name. MR. JACK ALAIDE: Yes, my name is Jack Alaide and I live on Hyatt Road, just down the road from the property in question. As you know, or may know, there are alot of people up there, weekends and or summer residence. I was asked by several of them, to speak on their behalf, as well as myself tonight. I will identify them as Dr. Mary Kemeny who owns the property contiguous to this. The lots in question on the North side. Mrs. Jean Toro, who lives Page 61 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA just down the road where I am. Mrs. Elizabeth Worth's whose also down there, and myself. I think that zoning really is enacted to control the flow and development of properties, as we know them today. Whether it be commercial business, or residential. If we talk about the latter, I believe it emanates from the premise of maintaining or increasing quality of life. If you look at it very simplistically, I think that you could almost say that all Government, in fact this board exists for that same premise. That's why we're all here. When zoning is enacted, and there is nonconformity, normally remedies are set forth to cure the nonconformity, if you would, at a time in the future, on this specific for controls, not controls but specific circumstances, and I' think that's exactly what we have right here. We have a tragic accident, which took these two lovely people away from us. There's no doubt about that, and there's no question about that. But the fact remains, that we had two lots that were nonconforming in their size. Now as I understand the code, due to the way or the timing of how these two lovely ladies passed away, they became one parcel, as they were both owned by Ginny Moore. Whether or not people agree with that, I'm saying, that's the way it is. To go back and unhinge these properties if you would, we feel very strongly, would not only effect the quality of life, but it would effect an economic issue in that. Sure, the trust would benefit, by being able to sell off this back parcel, and allow it to be developed. I have no doubt it would command a higher price. But that higher price or the value that it would get, I think would somehow, or not somehow, but to a certain degree flow from the lesser value, the present property owners have, because we're allowing development on smaller pieces of ground. You know, that's bad enough, but we also feel very strongly, to go in there and develope a part of this very precious woodland, is unconscionable. Like anyone, I can understand that Janet Swanson, feels a fiduciary responsibility, to get the most maximum amount for the estate to be distributed. I understand that, but I also think in good conscious, that once she has gone through this process, and everyone here understands what could come out of this, if it is granted. She has no problem as a fiduciary, if it's not granted. Where would Terry and Ginny come out on this. Well, it's easy to conjecture, but I think everybody here would agree, that they would not want to see any of this woodland disturbed. I'li just finish now, with one quick little story. About four years ago I was down talking to Ginny and Terry, and I can't even tell you or remember, why I was there or what the conversation started. But one point, Ginny said to me, you know we own the parcel behind this lot. This lot being where the house is. I said really, I didn't know that, and kidding I said, what are you going to build back there? She looked at me in all seriousness and said, we bought it so that could not happen. Thank you. Page 62 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA CHAIRMAN: OK. MEMBER DINIZIO: You have some more questions. CHAIRMAN: Oh, I'm sorry. I had no idea. We'll go with the lady first. MRS. MAGDALENA: My name is Mrs. Magdalena, and I live right down the road from the property in question, and I'm going to ask you to forgive me if I read, because I haven't done this in a long time. I was a volunteer for wildlife for seven years, and we rehab'd everything from chicks to possums, and I'm here to plead with you, for the animals, birds that live in that wetland, that's adjacent to the property. The only possible reason of separating this property, is to allow the back lot to be developed, and this is one thing, if anyone knew Ginny and Terry, they would know that they would not want this ever, ever to happen. Some of us that live on Hyatt Road, have been seriously involved with wildlife organizations, and most of us are very disturbed and caring about the wonderful wildlife and the birds, that we are privileged to live with. We are all disturbed that tkis special place, is going to be destroyed. I'd like to say a few words, about the wetlands. In the Spring and the Winter, the water is as high as the road, on both sides. It borders the property in question, and comes right up to the right-of-way, the boundary that exists between his property. In the Spring when the water is very high, we are inundated with red wing black Birds, that descend on us by the hundreds. Literally, by the hundreds and this is their nesting ground. Diane and I have counted all kinds of Woodpeckers. We have song Birds, song Sparrows, tit mice. In the Spring and the Fall, the area is used for migration of mounds, and every Fall Otto and I are privilege, to watch a pair of Blue Herrings stop by. I'd like to share with you another story. Five years ago, hurricane Bob whistled through our area, and we lost a few trees. We asked John Birnberg to come down, and do some landscaping for us, and I said to John. How do you know what to plant, there's so many choices, and he said, Oh Mrs. Magdalena, very easy. All I do is look at your neighbors gardens, and I plant what I see. But then he turned to me and said, I've lived and worked on the North Fork all my life, and you have things growing on Hyatt Road, that I have never seen grow anyplace else. This is a very, very special place, and we are here to beg you to help us preserve it. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. MR. OTTO LINDMAYER. I live on Hyatt Road, close by the property owned by Terry and Ginny. There's only one thing I'd like to straighten, and that is property size. The lady said, that the land has been pretty well developed, which is true. But the property, the sizes of the property developed, are one acre or two. Well in excess of one acre. In fact, both properties, both the Page 63 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA property that the house is on, the one in question, borders on Lewis's property which is somewhere in excess of two acres. They also boarder on two acres, which is Betty Parson's lot to the North, which is over two acres. To open the land in question, to another house, would have to require some form of road or right-of-way. The parcels, both parcels by themselves are rather small. So all of this, would add to the crowding of another building in there. You know, the area which is rather open, private quiet, because of the group we have between us. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Yes Madam. MRS. DIANE JUDD: I also live on Hyatt Road, and I was also a friend of Ginny's and Terry's for 50 years. I can't speak about them without crying. I know they would not want this. They did not buy that extra lot to merge. They bought it just for the reason that Mrs. Adaide, that Jack says. To keep it from being developed, because they loved the area so. I moved there because of the area. It has nothing to do with traffic, or anything else. Although that certainly would be a consideration. It's just that, this goes against their will. That's all I can say. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Anybody else, yes. MS. CAROL CONTE: I too live on Hyatt Road, and I have a rather dubious distinction of maintaiz~ing the road, or having the road maintained. At times, because it's wetland and wooded, those beautiful wild scrubs and plants encroach on the road, thereby making it difficult for cars to go by. So I've had in the past, to hire people, just to cut the brush back, along the side of the road. Well, last year somebody from the DEC happened to be there, an admonished man I hired to, saying that to do that in such a environmental fragile area, requires permission. At that time, it wasn't particularly clear as to from whom. But I can only summarize, that based on that, that you really have to take a look at the ecological balance, and the disturbance that building on this undersize lot, adjacent to wetlands and woodlands, the possible damage that would occur as a result. I don know that Ginny and Terry was part of the NFEC, and I too became a member. I truly believe, even though they are no longer with us, that anything that would turn a very peaceful, fragile, rural area, into a commodity for profit, would be enanthem to what they believed, and lived by. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Anyone else, yes. TERRY LESTER: I also live on Hyatt Road, and I just wanted to kind of add my voice to agree with, what we all feel. I can understand their wanting to sell, and get a profit for their people, but that's going to take the money, and leave us living there, with something that shouldn't be there. That's about it. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Anything you'd llke to add in rebuttal? Page 64 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: It's not a matter of selling it and getting a profit, for our people. Ms. Swanson has a fiduciary obligation involved. It's not a responsibility, it's not a wish. It's a duty. It's not a desire. It's something that she is a Trustee is charged with, by the statute. She may not necessarily agree with you, and neither may I. Although we may agree with you, but this is the responsibility that she is charged with as Trustee of the Trust. To maximize the assets of the Trust, for the benefit ofthe beneficiaries. We may not like what we're asking for, we may like it, we may not. I'm not going to give you a hint, one way or another. But, it's her obligation to do that, under the statue. Whether or not the lots are merged, does not necessarily preclude removal of the trees, and an expansion, an accessory buildirfg or whatever. I'm just telling you realistically, that those trees could come down, regardless of who purchases the house. With the respect to the right-of-way. They already exists on paper. They are two rights-of-way. One going North, and one going East, and yes, Ginny and Terry were very much involved in the NFEC. In fact, Ginny was the founder, and I am not in any way, disregarding that, with this application. CHAIRMAN: discuss this. either one of road. Just a minute. I just want to mention that, as we That any construction on that property, be it divided, the properties will require an updated 280A, of the DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: Absolutely. expense, Which could involve substantial CHAIRMAN: Only because I had the distinct displeasure, and I do say this. It was a pleasure in reverse, of breaking down in front of the property one Saturday afternoon. I will admit that there were not alot of people home, but I did spend alot of time walking the road. Something probably I wouldn't have spent as much time doing, had I not been able to start my car. It is a very beautiful area, there is no question about it. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN: Sir. I don't want to get involved in a counterproductive issue. You're very welcome to speak. MR. JACK ADELAIDE: No, one quick comment that we brought out. I can understand a fiduciary. I was a fiduciary many times in the past. I know what you're required to do, and what you're not required to do. You're required to use your best efforts to maximize, whatever this thing is and then distribute. I have no problem with that. That's why we're here. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: Absolutely. MR. JACK ADAIDE: have been fulfilled, that's not her fault. If it is turned down, a fiduciary responsibility even though the beneficiaries get less money, She tried to do it, and it was turned down, if Page 65 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA that's the answer. So, it's not anything that she has to go home or you advise her and say, we have a real problem. What are we going to do about it? She does not have the problem under these circumstances. I've been there, I know that. I'm not a Lawyer. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: As President Clinton recently said, no comment. MEMBER TORTORA: Just one question. I understand but in all fairness to you, could you address 126. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: I'm not sure. MEMBER TORTORA: One, two, three and four. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: everything, I'm not sure what you're talking about. MEMBER TORTORA: The criteria under which I (unfinished sentence). DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: I don't have it in front of created by Deed in 1951, we have the Deeds. me. It was DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: Are you talking about a substantial hardship. CHAIRMAN: Read it to her. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Read it. MEMBER TORTORA: The waiver will not result in a significant increase of the density of the neighborhood. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: Oh, I have it right here . MEMBER TORTORA: Since they brought up the question of density, and the question of economic hardship was brought up. DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: It is only possible for one house to be constructed on the vacant lot that supports 62 acres. It can get it's proper setbacks. There should be no problem with the Health Department in terms of cesspools and wells. MR. ( ) What about the wetlands. ? DEBORAH DOTY ESQ: It will not be in the wetlands, because the house is located well North of the wetlands. It is consistent with the lot next to it. In fact, it's larger than the lot next to it. I believe it's consistent with the number of, meaning when I said, lot next to it, it's the house parcel. It's larger than the house MEMBER TORTORA: We have to judge this (unfinished sentence). SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: No, she's talking about the criteria that we're giving in the inspection packet, the inspection packet. Page 66 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA parcel, the vacant lot. It would avoid undue economic hardship, with respect to the trust beneficiaries. Yes, it would increase the amount of money that we could disburse to the trust beneficiaries. Other than your normal grading, and construction. I don't think it would change the natural contours of the land. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. motion closing the hearing in favor, Aye. Hearing no further comment, I'll make a and reserving decision until later. All BARBARA KELLY: Waiver request. MEMBER VILLA: I heard Mrs. Kelly's presentation, and I can certainly sympathize with her, being a single Mother and trying to maximize her returns. But to me, it boils down to the matter of land use. There's stacks of evidence going back to the late '60s, concerning land use. The Health Department with that evidence, passed their regulations in the 1970's, required one acre per house. This was to protect ground water. This was primarily in the West end of the County, where we have alot of ground water and very deep ground water. On the Fork out here, we have alot less than that. After that up zoning of changing our subdivision standards, the Town followed suit and went to one acre zonihg. The Town's water problem led the Town to update the Master Plan, to try to control the density. In 1982 or '83, the Town went to 2 acre zoning, because of recognition that we really are unique out here. We finally got the most unique water supply problems in the County. The Third Town Board passed a merger Law, in essence did away with previous exemptions, in some subdivision of some areas of the Town. So, what we're basically looking at is, Three Town Boards ali took action looking to control the Town growth. There's groups now to try to create Peconic County, and some of the opponents say, even if we were to create Peconic County, it's still up to the Town's to control their growth and fait. That's true, it's a local issue. A County can't do it. It's up to the Town. Now, we're being asked to ge approve substandard lots, and undo what Three Town Boards actions have done. Mrs. Kelly by her own actions, show her lots to be smaller, than ali the lots in the area. Also, there are 15 other lots, that can be split off if we grant this. Fifteen more lots, plus hers, would add almost 5,000 gallons of sewage a day, to the ground water in that area. Even now, we're driving to get funds for this estuary study. Anything we put into the ground, or on the ground, leeches out onto our Bays, and this is what we're trying to protect. So, basically I feel, this is a land use problem. It's not the only lot in the area If it was the only lot in the area, I'd say fine, do it. But there are many other lots in the area that can be built upon. Grant this and where do we stop? I was trying to get some of the information on land use, to the board here. There's stacks of it out there. This is all we're Page 67 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA trying to control, and the Town boards have taken action, to do this. I don't think they are looking for a board like this to undo their actions. That's my thoughts. I, as I said in the beginning, I sympathize. I have five kids of my own. I know the situation, but in good conscience, with my background, and knowledge of the water out here. I just cannot find it in my heart to approve this. CHAIRMAN: OK, does anybody want to make a motion? MEMBER VILLA: I'll make a motion to deny it. CHAIRMAN: Do we have a second. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Bob, are you using all those reasons that you gave? MEMBER VILLA: Yes I am. MEMBER TORTORA: I would second this, but I had not discussed this with Bob. MEMBER VILLA: No, I hadn't discussed it. MEMBER TORTORA: I have specific reasons, other reasons. CHAIRMAN: Good ahead, talk. MEMBER TORTORA: But I do share Mr. Villa's concern to the applicant, in her particular situation. When we met on the last session, I gave the board a copy of the survey,that I had prepared. CHAIRMAN: Right. MEMBER TORTORA: Of all the lots in the worst side of Skunk Lane, 700 feet adjoining your parcel, and in short, I had determined that the proposed lot that you want to create is the smallest. In fact, I have it right in front of me. I think it was something like, more than half the lots met 85% of the code in the R40 district. So I went through the hearing very carefully, and I spent a lot of time, with this, and I concluded, that under the provision of our merger, waiver rather. That a waiver of merger would recognize a lot that is inconsistent with the size of tile lots in the neighborhood. Of the 12 lots joining the applicants property, on the same side of Skunk Lane, for a distance of approximately 700 feet of the lot are larger in size than the applicant request to create one 18,000 square foot lot, and one 18,600 square foot lot approximately in this R40 district. 2. To grant a waiver could result in a significant increase in density in the neighborhood. This potential to create 15 lots on this block alone, instead of the 12 lots that now exists within 700 feet with the Kelly parcel. In addition to the Kelly parcel, there are two other vacant lots Skunk Lane, that appear to be merged with adjoining properties. Page 68 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 3. The applicant has not demonstrated that a waiver of merger would avoid an economic hardship. No financial records, documentation and other proof, was submitted or presented to the board, to substantiate the applicants claim. Applicants prepared statements that quote, the waiver will avoid an economic hardship, a great security to a single parent, who raised four children. Other grand meager circumstances, finance is not proof of economic hardship. The final factor was that, no documentation was presented to substantiate the applicants claim, that she was unable to separate title for both lots, subsequent to 1973. The lots were held in common ownership between 1965 and 1/12/66, 30 years, 31 years. Although the applicant stated that she was unable to take action earlier, due to marital discord. She also stated that she had been separated from her husband since 1973, and I could find no proof. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: were built upon? Did you say that 45% of the lots MEMBER TORTORA: (Inaudible answer). SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: met code? You said 45% met code, or did not MEMBER TORTORA: Oh, met. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Met cede, ok. MEMBER TORTORA: In fact, it's more than 45. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Normally, I would move the motion, but I want Mr. Dinizio and Mr. Doyen to have a chance to speak. Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: To comment on that motion. CHAIRMAN: No, what you'd like to say, concerning whatever way you .want to vote. I don't care. MEMBER DINIZIO: Oh no, I'd just as soon vote. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK, you want to vote now, yes. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Doyen, do you have anything to say? MEMBER DOYEN: No, I'll vote. CHAIRMAN: OK, we'll move the motion. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: All in favor Member Villa. MEMBER VILLA: Aye. Page 69 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Member Tortora, aye. MEMBER TORTORA: Aye. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Member Goehringer. CHAIRMAN GOEGRINGER: No. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Member Dinizio. MEMBER DINIZIO: No. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Mr. Doyen. MEMBER DOYEN: No SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: The resolution was lost. anyone like to make an alternative motion ? Would MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, I'd like to make a motion that it be granted as applied. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK, do you want to give the reasons why. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well certainly, the law as written allows for common sense to be applied to all, certainly this particular law. The assumption that, just because a Government or Town makes a law, that everybody is aware of that law, is not using any kind of common sense whatsoever. The woman went and liv(~d her life, assumed in my opinion, because I take her at her word, assuming that she had an empty lot alongside, because that's how she said it. Certainly I had one, when I grew up too, a lot. I just think that it's time, we as a board, make not a statement, but a decision that makes a little common sense, that allows for people to live their lives without fear of almost having the property confiscated, simply because of a name on a deed. A name, mind you. it really has nothing to do with people putting buildings up on lots, and then tearing them down. Putting cesspools on a separate lot and pulling it out. It has to do with a name. Letters on a deed. It has nothing to do with anything physical. In my opinion, when we drafted the law, it was always discussed that the Zoning Board would have the right to act as a relief valve, and to strict interpretation of this law, so that people didn't get hurt. People that came in and stated their case, that they weren't aware of the law. They presented to us, some common sense, reasons why they weren't aware of the law, and they didn't pay attention to the law. We would make our decision, based on that. I agree, that the Bays are being polluted and certainly runoff, in this development in particular. If it was fully developed as of Dec.31, 1995, no one would be here complaining about the runoff and the sewage in the ground, because it would be there, and it would be existing. We're always well aware of that potential, and Page 70 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA certainly I don't believe that all 15 of these lots, are going to have the same story, that this particular applicant has. That's basically the reasons why, Id want to move that motion. This is why we're here. To make some hard choices. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: So you're saying that this is a case by case basis. MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, it certainly is. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: situation, she was forced to leave less. And because of her personal it in the same name, more of MEMBER VILLA: Not forced, but certainly not aware. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK. MEMBER DINIZIO: And I believe that. MEMBER VILLA: Yes, but just on account of that I'd like to say, we had another hearing in that same area previously. Where the women said, she didn't even care if we granted it or not, she just wanted to know which way to go, and it was given to her on a lot, that was even smaller than this. CHAIRMAN: Yes, because the lot was not property tax mapped. It was 400 feet away. That's what she thought, and believed in every time she came down to Town Hall. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's not relative to this case. MEMBER DINIZIO: No, it's not. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: So we shouldn't be discussing about another appeal. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Doyen is on the bench. MEMBER DINIZIO: I think there should be a motion. MEMBER DOYEN: No, I always have a little problem with people who can look down the road. There are 15 lots, they can tell you what's going to happen next year, 20 years from now. We're talking about this lot today. The density of this lot will not increase anything significantly, at this time. I'm not talking about next month or next year, or 20 years from now. If in the future it appears, that the density is becoming too great at that time, we don't grant anymore variances or waivers. That's down the road. I'm not cleaver enough to look down that far. That's why I'm voting for this, among other things. CHAIRMAN: OK. The concern that I had, and this goes back on a symmetrical basis to my statement to you, that we look long and hard Page 71 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA Mrs. Kelly, .before we make a decision, is based upon several factors. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Before you go on, Serge did you second that motion. Is that a second? MEMBER DOYEN: The yes motion, yes. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Or should we have a motion on the floor. I'd like to clear that up. MEMBER DOYEN: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Yes SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: You second the motion. OK, so then basically we're going to have a vote too. CHAIRMAN: Can I finish what I'm saying. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It's not open for public discussion, but you could speak among board members. Is that the way you do it. Open it up to the Public. CHAIRMAN: I'm going to tell Mrs. Kelly one thing. During the period of 1973 to the present, where you had rectified this situation. I can assume that there was, the difficulty that you had, between you and your spouse. That is the concern that I have, based upon your application, and therefore that is the reason why I'm am moving the motion, and telling you we have a motion in a second, and I am voting yes. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: on this? Member Tortora, how do you vote MEMBER TORTORA: No. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Member Villa? MEMBER VILLA: No. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: MEMBER DOYEN: Yes. SECRETARY LINDA I(OWALSKI: MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes. SECRETARY LINDA K©WALSKI: applied. Member Doyen? Member Dinizio ? OK, resolution adopted, approved as Page 72 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA INFORMAL DISCUSSIONS, CONTINUED: HUGH MURPHY (Actual hearing was closed (concluded) earlier this evening. CHAIRMAN: Ok, on to you, Murphy. I am suggesting in a point of brevity here, that we move the house five feet to the South. That we eliminate the garage, and that we ask the applicant, or suggest the applicant that they come back for placement of storage building, after the house is constructed. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: front yard setbacks, because approving, the setbacks. OK, I need to really have setbacks, that would be what we would be CHAIRMAN: I'm just giving a philosophy. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I know, I understand, need to have specifics setbacks for the decision, but we'll CHAIRMAN: 15 feet to the right-of-way. property line. 15 feet to the Easterly MEMBER VILLA: Why is it staying 15 feet from there, when we've got 42 feet from Oaklawn. CHAIRMAN: We don't have 42 feet from Oaklawn We don't have 42 feet from Oaklawn to the original. We have 36 feet, ok. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: CHAIRMAN: 15, 36, about 10. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: What was the first figure. Yes, 36, 15 to 10. Right. This is 10. CHAIRMAN: Yes, this is 10. Right there is 10. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Then to the garage. CHAIRMAN: Demolishing of the garage. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: To the bulkhead, I need a setback. CHAIRMAN: I don't know what it is. We'll have to scale it. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Here's a ruler. MEMBER VILLA: [ don't think that 30 feet from Oaklawn Drive, they're a little bit more away from the bulkhead. CHAIRMAN: That's fine. If I don't put the perimeters together, then we very simply sit here, and I want to get going. It appears, that it's 13 feet, plus or minus. Page 73 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: On the ( after that, right. CHAIRMAN: Yes. 13 plus, probably 15. location, at it's closest point about six. ) and it's further Right now at it's present MEMBER DOYEN: CHAIRMAN: Jim. MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I'm not happy with the application at all. You know how I feel about it so. CHAIRMAN: That's right. I'm only doing it courteously, asking you. MEMBER DINIZIO: Thanks. CHAIRMAN: Do you have any problems with that. MEMBER TORTORA: Me. CHAIRMAN: Yes. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: So your approving 13, ok. CHAIRMAN: I have no problems with that though. I absolutely have no problems with that, because that's the multiplicity of front yard setbacks in that area. It's almost like a harangue. MEMBER VILLA: ( ). CHAIRMAN: So what your saying, if your saying 6 feet. Are you saying, then put the original 6 feet on the Easterly side? Is that what your saying? MEMBER VILLA: Yes, I'm saying reduce that setback on Oaklawn to 30 feet. CHAIRMAN: Ail right. MEMBER VILLA: 36. CHAIRMAN: All right. MEMBER VILLA: And let the distances fall where they may. CHAIRMAN: OK. Is that going to cause a problem with the cesspools. MEMBER VILLA: [ don't think so. They have enough room over there, they could do something. They can move that if they had to. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any problems with that? No. Page 74 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER TORTORA: I thought we were making Jim happy, by changing everything. CHAIRMAN: Well, we're not here for personalities. MEMBER DINIZIO Don't make me happy. Do what you have to do. MEMBER TORTORA: You don't think this is an improvement, or you do? This was your baby really. MEMBER DINIZIO: I have given my opinion already Lydia, and an awful lot of steam. CHAIRMAN: Right, Serge do you have any problems with the changes, ok? Do you want to make a motion Bob on that? MEMBER VILLA: Your spelling out the criteria, just change the 30, 60 to 30, that's all. CHAIRMAN: All right. Front yard setback 36 feet. setback on Oaklawn Avenue 36 feet, 30 feet, pardon me. the Easterly setback at 21. Front yard That puts SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK, at Oaklawn - we're talking 30, and what's this. CHAIRMAN: That's 21 now, because it's 15 and 6. Demolishing of the garage, you can cross that out. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes. CHAIRMAN: And everything else remains the same, which should push it farther away from the bulkhead. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK, that's right. You said 13 feet and the bulkhead. CHAIRMAN: Well no, it's going to push it back farther. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Then whatever it is. CHAIRMAN: It's going to be about 19 feet, plus or minus. Ok, did you make that motion Bob? MEMBER VILLA: Well, I'm not completely happy with it either, because I echoed Jim's comments on it, because this was done. I didn't like the way it was done. CHAIRMAN: Right. Well, do you want me to make the motion? MEMBER VILLA: Yes, you make the motion. CHAIRMAN: I'll make the motion. Page 75 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER DINIZIO: Can't you just comment on this. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: You know, normally, you know me. I wouldn't have a problem at all with this application, except that if you see what you've just done. A person came to us months ago. We granted variances. We granted them basically, a footprint to build in. Granted an old house, to put an addition on it. Now, we're giving him a brand new house, and not only that, suddenly we're concerned about how close that same house is going to be to a bulkhead, concerned about the garage. We weren't concerned about any of that in the first application. MEMBER VILLA: Who said that? MEMBER DINIZIO: Because no comments were ever made about it. Why suddeniy, we have this Gentlemen taking down this building, and moving back, when before, we passed the exact same footprint. MEMBER VILLA: We didn't make him take it down. He's doing that by choice. MEMBER TORTORA: He wants a bigger house Jim. CHAIRMAN: Well, it's not the bigger house. MEMBER DINIZIO: I agree, I agree with you Lydia. CHAIRMAN: It's improving a better situation. MEMBER TORTORA: Exactly. CHAIRMAN: Because were pushing him farther away from the water, closer to the right-of-way. MEMBER DINIZIO: I was just wondering, where was the concern when we were doing an addition for this, as suppose to now, where he's going to build a brand new house. MEMBER VILLA: Well, that's because you don't listen to concern. You just told everybody (unfinished sentence). MEMBER DINIZIO: Bob, I'm going to stay away from attaching you personally. I appreciate it, if you would do the same. MEMBER VILLA: Well, you're asking where the concerns were. You don't list the concerns, because anything that comes in you say, basically the person should have a right to do it, and you get the votes to go with you. MEMBER DINIZIO: OK, so then ( ). Page 76 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings SoUthold Town ZBA MEMBER VILLA: Well, I do voice my opinion, but unfortunately I'm in the minority. CHAIRMAN: All right. In a point of order here, let's just. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Speak for yourself, I guess, would be the best thing. CHAIRMAN: All right, so in this particular case, I have a motion. Does anybody like to second it. MEMBER TORTORA: Second. CHAIRMAN: All in favor, aye. DELIBERATIONS RE: ARTHUR FOSTER (Hearing was concluded (closed) earlier this evening. CHAIRMAN: The application before us is, for variances. Does any member have a particular problem with this application? MEMBER VILLA: No, as long as he stays within the building envelope. CHAIRMAN: OK. Is there anything we can address, in reference to the water runoff, that would make the people in the area feel happier? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Well, the Planning Board does do drainage, as part of the subdivisions. So you might want to add that. MEMBER TORTORA: Your talking about an act of God here. CHAIRMAN: I know. MEMBER TORTORA: And he's in the highest area on the lot, as it is. CHAIRMAN: OK, I just passing along, thatfs all. MEMBER TORTORA: No, I'm well aware of the concerns. It's really an act of God, at this point. CHAIRMAN: Ot~, all right MEMBER VILLA: The cluestion is, is that going to be a Town Road or is it going to remain a private road. CHAIRMAN: A private road, always. MEMBER VILLA: Because based under the law, your not allowed to discharge water off a Town Road, onto private property. So, I Page 77 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA would assume that if this Gentlemen wanted to keep runoff from going on his property, he has the right to do it anyway. CHAIRMAN: That is correct. MEMBER VILLA: He could block that off so. CHAIRMAN: That is correct. MEMBER VILLA: I don't see where that's a factor. MEMBER TORTORA: I don't think that we can do anything about it. CHAIRMAN: What we're saying is that, there's a natural swell here. MEMBER VILLA: It's going to flow down, to that little spot anyway. MEMBER TORTORA: The Town Engineer has reviewed this, and the Highway Department has reviewed this, and the Planning Board has reviewed it, and it's located in the highest ground, and the envelope is clearly designated on the map. CHAIRMAN: OK, so whose making the motion? MEMBER TORTORA: I will. variances minimal. I'll move it as applied for, with CHAIRMAN: OK, all right. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It's minimal. MEMBER VILLA: Could we just say,it would stay within the building envelope, or do we have to ( ). CHAIRMAN: Well, would you modify your motion to say that? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: So that would mean, he could never come back for a variance, if he needed it. I mean, your pretty much withdrawing all his rights. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, I object to that again. I mean, let the Building Inspector do his job, and certainly if the man has a lot, why don't you let him build it. What if he wants to build an addition, and he needs two feet. Are you just saying that he can't have it, come to us, and we're going to preclude that? MEMB ER waiver. with. VILLA: Yes, because basically they're asking for a The way you can grant a waiver, which I have no problems SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: No, he's not asking for a waiver, this is not a waiver. This is road frontage variance. Page 78 - October 17, Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 1996 MEMBER TORTORA: This is an area variance, and I don't see how we could possibly attach a condition on the house, that he can't come back for an addition. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's up to the Board of Appeals. MR. ARTHUR FOSTER: There's more than enough room in that building envelope. I won't be back. Page 79 - October 17, Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA 1996 DELIBERATIONS, MR. WILLIAM P. SCHOLL: CHAIRMAN: OK, concerns on this Ladies and Gentlemen? MEMBER TORTORA: You heard my concerns. Any suggestions to remedy. I have no objection to the application, a preexisting dwellings. CHAIRMAN: There's nothing that you can remedy on it, very simply because, if the encroachment exists, it exists, all right. It may require them to come back for additional relief, one way or another. If and when they find out, that's there's actual an encroachment. I don't honestly believe, there is one. MEMBER TORTORA: I don't know. CHAIRMAN: OK. MEMBER TORTORA: I don't know. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Can I make this one small suggestion. I don't know, it's after the hearing but. At the time that they do get a survey, I'd be happy to file it with the Zoning Board of Appeals. So you have a record. It is, what it is, and if it is an encroachment, you don't need a variance or anything, unless you rebuild. CHAIRMAN: Right. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Or intend to extend those setbacks. CHAIRMAN: And there's also the possibility, and I know it's after. I didn't mean to cut you off, but that maybe a easement will be granted, if there is one. Who knows. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Oh yes, even a Title Company will insure, to the extent that it's been there, for the number of years, it's been there, and then when it's removed, it gets cut back. MEMBER TORTORA: That's really the point, it's existing many years. PATRICIA MOORE ESQ: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Who wants to make the motion? MEMBER DINIZIO: I'll make the motion, that we grant it for applied. CHAIRMAN: Who'd like to second that? MEMBER DOYEN: Second. CHAIRMAN: All in favor, aye. Page 80 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of Hearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER VILLA: I will vote aye, because to me, this is what the ZBA is to clarify. Here is a situation, where we're not changing anything. We're clarifying something, and I don't have any problems, with a situation like this. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Everyone agrees with that, right. MEMBER DINIZIO: Oh yes, definitely. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK. POSTPONED: Appl. No. 4401 DAVID DeFRIEST. November 14, 1996. Postponed till End. (OK to file "as is." May need to be adjusted when time permits for minor spelling or grammar usage. ) Pages 1 - 80 prepared from tape recordings by Noreen Frey. Page 80 - October 17, 1996 Transcript of tlearings Southold Town ZBA MEMBER VILLA: I will vote aye, because to me, this is what the ZBA is to clarify. Here is a situation, where we're not changing anything. We're clarifying something, and I don't have any problems, with a situation like this. S[CRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Everyone agrees with that, right. MEMBER DINIZIO: Oh yes, definitely. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK. POSTPONED: Appl. No. 4401 DAVID DeFRIEST. Postponed till November 14, 1996. En d. (OK to file "as is." May need to be adjusted when time permits for lninor spelling or grammar usage.) Pages 1 - 80 prepared from tape recordings by Noreen Frey.