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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-04/03/1996 HEARING TRANSCRIPT OF HEARINGS REGULAR MEETING WEDNESDAY, APRIL 3, 1996 Draft Prepared by Noreen Frey ZBA Representatives Present: Gerard P. Goehringer, Chairman Serge J. Doyen, Jr., Member "James Dinizio, Jr., Member Robert A. Villa, Member Lydia A. Tortora, Member Linda Kowalski, Board Assistant At the beginning of each new hearing, the Chairman read the legal notice and the application as an introduction to the audience and for the record. 7:38 p.m. Appl. #4368 SUSAN PARK UTZ. The applicant is requiring a Waiver under Section 100-26 of the Zoning Ordinance, based upon the Building Inspector's March 14, 1996 Notice of Disapproval, in which applicant was denied a building permit to construct a one-family dwelling on vacant land based upon information received by the assessors office since issuance of January 24, 1996 Notice of Disapproval (rear yard setback). Under Article II, Section 100-25A enacted 1/1/96, the subject lot has been held in common ownerslfip with an adjacent lot from 6/17/95 until recently. Town records show the subject parcel was single and separate prior to 6/17/95 wtlen deed transfer was recorded in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office in a probate matter. The subject lot is shown to be in common ownership with an adjoining substandard 1or (!000-18-1-9) improved with a single-family dwelling. The subject parcel is identified as County- Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-1S-1-12, and has been assessed as a separate parcel known as 295 Youngs Road, Orient for more than 32 years. Chairman: I have a copy of a survey wkich was the nature of the public hearing for setbacks. I have a copy of a Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody- that would like to be heard? How are you, again? MRS. SUSAN UTZ: I'm fine and how are you? CHAIRMAN: What would you like to tell us. Page 9 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - AFl-il 3. 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals MS. SUSAN UTZ: I would like to build a small house on a little piece of proper~y I own in Orient, next to another piece of property. I'm selling the house any day now, to people who have been living in it since last summer, and I need a place m stay. I'd like to ge~ the house started. CHAIRMAN: We'll szar~ with Mr. Villa. Do you have any questions of Mrs. Utz? Is it Ms. Utz or Mrs. Utz? MS. UTZ: Ms. CHAIRMAN: Pardon me. MEMBER VILLA: No, I don't have any questions. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, none at all. CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: No MEMBER DOYEN: No CHAIRMAN: OK, I don't have any questions of you. We certainly would not gi-ant an application for a setback, had we known it had been merged for an extended period of time. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKi: It wasn't at that time. CHAIRMAN: Yes, I know but I mean. month merger. We're talking about a six SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: something like that. Probably four or five months, CHAIRMAN: OK. MS. SUSAN UTZ: t don't understand these things very well, but I'm sure I will get my house pretty soon. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Yes. Is there anyone else that would like to speak in favor of this application, in the audience. Anybody that would like to speak against this application? Anybody that would like to make a motion? MEMBER DINIZIO: I'll make that motion granted as applied. CHTIIRMAN: Second. All in favor, Aye. (See Resolution in Minutes filed with Town Clerk's Office). Psge 3 - Transcript of Hearings Reg~utar Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:41 p.m. Appl. No. 4370 ~ HUGH MURPHY. This is an application for a variance based upon the Building Inspectorts March 8, 1996 Notiee of Disapproval issued under Article XXIV, Section 100-244 in which applicant applied for a building permit to construct an addition to an existing dwelling with an insufficient front yard setback, at premises known as 3105 Oakiawn Avenue, Southold~ NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-70-6-8.A 35-front yard setback, or the average established witifin 300 feet on the same block, is required on a substandard parcel of 12,500+- sq. ft. CHAIRMAN: t have a Map wb2ch was faxed, it looks like February 6. !996 is the date on the map from Roderick Van Tuyl, P.C. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI:' There is a better map there. CHAiRMA, N: Ok. And I have a copy of a Suffolk County Tax Map indication this and surrounding properties in the area. The map I indicated which is a survey does indieate the placement of the house, and the garage, and it's proximity of the right-of-way, which is the nature of this application. Is Ms. Herod here? How are you tonight, Sir? HUGH MURPHY: My name is Hugh Murphy and I own the property. CHAIRMAN: Well, that's even better. MR. HUGH MURPHY: Al1 right. I've owned that little cottage for over 20 years, and we've been summering out here. My intention is to make that cottage into a permanent house. In about three years, I'm planning on relocating out here, and taking with me a little distributorship that I now have in New York. CHAIRMAN: Great. MR. HUGH MURPHY: My friends are also very much in favor. All my neighbors are in favor of me having some house work done there, because if you note that location it's one of the most gorgeous locations on the Northeast~ here, and I have a little cottage' that's very, very well run down, and all the houses around me are beautiful on Joekey Creek. So, i'm looking for a little room to put an office and something --. I have a key here. My Aunt said to bring a key along if some people would like to look at the house. This is really a three horse stall cottage. One time it was three horse stall. That's the size of the bedrooms. The living room was built onto it later, and the kitchen was built onto it after that. I'm not trying to expand it beyond --. Just to get a little bit of room for three horse stands. I'm pleased, and would weleome any of you to visit my humble home, but it is not liveable on a year round basis, which I'm trying to accomplish. CIiAIRMAN: It's relatively small on square footage too. MR. HUGH MURPHY: Yes. Page 4 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southoid Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: As your mentionfl~g too. MR. HUGH MURPHY: Yes, but there is enough room there. They're only three of us ( ). CHAIRMAN: OK, we'll szarx with Mr. Doyen. Do you have any- ques tiGriS ? MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: No, I'm just reading the letter that was faxed to the board tonight. Diane Herod is going to be here? MR. HUGH MURPHY: She supposed to be here. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: She may be here. She called and said, she may not be here on time. So, she asked the board to proceed. CHAIRMAN: OK. MEMBER DINIZIO: Mr. Dinizio ? No, nothing at all. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Do you want to recess it to see if she's going to attend, around 8:30? CHAIRMAN: Mr. Villa? MEMBER VILLA: Yes, I have a couple of questions. I notice in my inspection that there is a debris Hne up on your grass there, which is only a few feet from the house, and I'm concerned. How do you put a new pile foundation on an existing house? MR. HUGH MURPHY: How do I put a new pile foundation--. MEMBER VILLA: That's what it's proposing to do. MR. HUGH MURPHY: That's correct. I understand from the gentlemen that does this on a daily- basis, that it should be no problem whatsoever. MEMBER VILLA: You mean, piles are generally drive piles. MR. HUGH MURPHY: Well, that's what he's planning on doing. MEMBER VILLA: Well, you're going to have to move the house then. MR. HUGH MURPHY: Move the house. MEMBER VILLA: You're going to move the house landward --. Page 5 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. HUGH MURPHY: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: And then put the piles, then move back again. MR. HUGH MURPHY: Right. MEMBER VILLA: All right. What elevation are you going ~o have the first floor at then? MR. HUGtt MURPHY: Whatever the [aw says I have so be, which I believe is just about something like, according so Diane, six or eight inches higher than it is right now. MEMBER VILLA: That's all it is. IUs nos the 11 foot contour or whatever it is, because t know --. CHAIRMAN: It's probably a B Zone. MEMBER VILLA: Which is what? CHAIRMAN: It's --. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: There's no limit on a B zone, in Zones A and V, there are. CHAIRMAN: You don't have to go the eight foot lowest height, or lowest floor area, like in an A zone, because it's not in an open Bay. It could be subject to flooding. I mean, I'm sure --. MEMBER VILLA: It says in the flood zone. CHAIRMAN: What about that December storm we had in 1992. MR. HUGH MURPHY: I have never had water in the house. Underneath the house, yes. CHAIR~/LAN: OK. MR. HUGH MURPHY: Underneath the house, yes. MEMBER. VILLA: So there won't be any activity, excavation or anything else there where we can silt up that creek or anything else. MR. HUGH MURPHY: I don't understand that, 'silt up.' MEMBER VILLA: Well, when you're saying you're going to put a new founda£[ou under it. I concerned about excavation and run off into the Creek. MR. HUGH MURPHY: There should be none because they're locust posts under their now. MEMBER VILLA: Yes, but you're going to put new ones in. Page 6 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, ]996 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR.. ItUGH MURPHY: he's supposed to be honses. Aud when he pulls them up. This gentlemen, the best there is in the business on moving MEMBER VILLA: Yes, to answer my question. You're going to move the house. I didn't know how you're going to put piles under the house. It doesn't look like you have room to move it to --. MR. HUGH MURPHY: Got to move the house, put the piles back in, put the house back down, and then start working on the house. MEMBER VILLA: OK. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: You have a Trustees permit also, right - Town Trustees approval on tlzis? MR. HUGH MURPHY: Oh yes. I'm not going to do anything if it's not approved. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: They conditioned it on that probably, already. MEMBER VILLA: It doesn't say anyt~hing on that permit about --. MEMBER DINiZIO: We just got a letter. SECRETARY LiNDA KOWALSKI: Jerry, Bob just got the file. MEMBER DINIZIO: ( ) It was in our file. MEMBER VILLA: That's about a sanitary system. CHAIRMAN: Why don't we do this, Bob. Why don't we run through the hearing, and if Mr. Murphy doesn't have, if he's not running right out, we can recess it for a short period of time, and see if your architect does shows up. Or you may want to give her a call and see. MR. ttUGH MURPHY: she's taking--. It's ok. I understand. I don't know why CHAIRMAN: OK. sECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: YOU see, there's a DEC permit in here, and then there's also Trustees application that describes --. Do you have that, Bob? MEMBER VILLA: The DEC basically just says, that because there is a bulkhead~ they have no jurisdiction. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: i know that. I'm taking about the Trustees application. Page 7 -. Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southo]d Town Board of Appeals MEMBER TORTORA; The Trustees application refers ~o the FEMA elevation, but it doesn't specify what the FEMA elevation is. CHAIRMAN: flood area. That's because it's nor in a zone that's a high hazard SECRETARY LtNDA KOWALSKI: That's normally nor required as parr of the variance application. We don't normally ask for that. CHAIRMAN: So, we'll just run through the hearing and, we'll hold it up for one or two hearings, ro see if she shows up. If she doesn't, we'll just close the hearing. It's a pleasure meeting you. Is there anyone that would like ro speak in favor of this application? Is there anyone that would like to speak against the application? Ok, i'll make a motion ro recess and I'll offer it as a resolution Ladies and Gent'lemen. All in favor. 7:50 p.m. Appl. No. 4368 - GEORGE JOHNSTON. This is an application for a variance based upon a disapproval issued by the Building Inspector dated 2/I5/96 in which applicant requested a building permit to construct accessory garage building with an insufficient front yard setback and with lot coverage over the 20% limitation (for all building construction), Article 111, Section 100-33C (from Section 100-30A ,4) and Article lllA, Section 100-30A.3, Bulk Zoning Regulation Schedule. Location of Property: $5 Mesrobian Drive (private road) Laurel, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-145-4-6. MR. JOHN GUNNING (ARCHITECT WITH MR. AHLERS): dimensions are a little less than 30 by 30. Here the MEMBER VILLA: Yes but still. A footprint of 30 by 35. MR. -JOHN GUNNING: I also understand that we are allowed 20% lot coverage, and I noticed on the application that the number~ were revised, showing that we exceeded the 20%. Now I've gone over the application and all tim calculations for the square footage of the land, and t still come up with 19.2 %. i have a worksheet here if you would like to look a~ it. CHAIRMAN: Sure, definitely. MEMBER VILLA: You're allowed 20% lot coverage, but you're still proposing this as a fron~ yard, which requires 35 foo~ setback. MR. JOHN GUNNING: Right, I understand that. CIIA!RMAN: Can t just ask. There is no basement in tim house, is i}lat correct. It's a stucco, it's a slab. MR. JOHN GUNNING: On slab, yes. Page 8 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, i996 Southold Town 'Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: Yes, thank you. MR. JOHN GUNNING: Basically everyti~/n~ is being stored in the house when they*re not down. MEMBER VILLA: That could create a tunnel. CHAIRMAN: OK MR,. JOHN GUNNING: ! do have some other information. CHAIRMAN: Sure~ please do. MR. JOHN GUNNING: The reason we're asking for a 10 foot front yard setback. I think you can understand by maybe Iool~dn~ at the photographs that I've gSven you. Their front yard is in Page 9 - Transcript of Hearings Regmlar Meeting - April 3, 1996 Soutbold Town Board of Appeals 8:06 p. m. App,. No. 4389 - JESSE AND SHELLY REECE, CONTRACT VENDEES/ ROSE MARY SCHARBENBROICH, Seller. This is an application for a variance based upon the Building Inspector's February 9, 1996 Notice of Disapproval issued under Article lll. Sections I00-31A and 100-31C (2-b) in which applied has applied for a building permit zo alter an existing accessory "shed" building (instead of principal dweIHng) for occupancy as an artist studio wherein glass works of arz will be produced. Location of Property: 800 Haiyoake Avenue, Orient; County Tax MAP Parcel No. 1000-27-2-2.9, containing 5.02 acres in an R-80 Residential Zone District. By Jennifer Gould, Esq. CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this property at approximately 3.0 acres, and I have approximately four letters against, and four letter in favor. I have co be perfectly honest with the Public. These lezzers came in az the last minute. I have not read them all. So, we will not be making a decision on this application tonight. We will however, be closing the hearing and we do have 60 days to make a decision. We very rarely ever take 60 days, but so everybody is aware of that situation. I tlzink we're ready for Ms. Gould. Jen Gould Esq.: Good evening. I know that alot of people want to speak this evening, and t know there's atot of composition to this application. I hope we'll have a very truthful discussion tonight, so I want to be brief in my opening remarks. I represent Jessie and Shelly Reece. Right now the Reeces are renting from the Scharbenbroich in Orient. I think it's a five acre parcel. CHAIRMAN: It's five. JEN GOULD ESQ: Yes, it's fivq, not a three acre, and they have an option to buy the property. This option is extended until the Zoning Board makes a decision on tilts application for a variance. Now you said, the reason they're bringing in a application for a variance is because Jesse is an Artist. Jesse and Shelley have been living in Orient for five years. They have two children. Nolan is five and in Oyster Ponds School, and Nathan is two. Jesse had his studio in East Marion on Rocky Point Road, which is also R40/R80 residential district. He would like to buy the Scharbenbroich property and like all other artist's that I know in Southoid Town, work from his home. He doesn't want to work from the main building because he has an unique piece of property -~dth Historical buildings, and he would tike to locate his studio in an old potato shed. I don~t know if you've had an opportunity to read ali the letters, but this parcel at one time was part of the Hallockvilie farm, and this building is one of those buildings. It's seems Like an ideal unique place to have his studio. But if the code right now, Hmited to the main building on the premises, which would be the dwelling, which he and his family will live. Also, that building, the shed, exceeds the limitations in Page 10 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals the Home Occupation Law for size, 25%. This building is bigger. It's a 24 by 48 foot building. So, before I go on, I tiffnk the blending issues is what Jesse Reece's does, and whether he's an artist or a manufacturer, i'd like to introduce him, and let him tell you a little bit of what he does. I know from oti~er board members that have been to his studio. I'd Hke everybody else here to know something about him. Is that all right? CHAIRMAN: Will there be a time when we will have a right to "grill" you, before tiffs hearing is over? Jen Gould Esq: Yes, yes. CHAIRMAN: OK- Good evening, how are you? MR. JESSE REECE: Good. I brought a few objects that i made so you can see for yourself. CHAIRMAN: Why don't you put them over here on the table. We can take a recess if anybody would like to look at these. MR. JESSE REECE: Welt,~ this is the work I do and I don't know what to say about it. I consider myself an artist. These are original creations. I'd like to do it on that property. As Jennifer said, i've been working on Rocky Point Road for four years now, without any incident to the neighborhood. In order to stay in this area, for financial reasons and for work related reasons, t'd like to be able to work closer to my home, and this property seems ideal to me. tf I can get permission to put that shop in that shed. That's basically al! I have to say about it. CHAIRMAN: Let's start with Mr. Villa, and we'll see if he has any ques tions. MEMBER VILLA: Just for curiosity, how do you get your raw materials. Is it just g~ass that you melt or do you get it as--. MR. JESSE REECE: I buy it as a premixed batch~ it's called, and I melt that. MEMBER VILLA: So it's basically like a powder. It's a dry product and you melt it. MR. JESSE REECE: Yes CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dinizio? MEMBER DINIZiO: How much of that do you keep on the property at any one time, that powder? MR. JESSE REECE: Well, they come in 50 pound sacks and I get 60 .~ ba~s s.t a time. It last me about three months. Page [1 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southo[d Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: You also mentioned ro us last Saturday, that there would be no outside storage. Is that correct? MR. JESSE REECE: You know, they stack up. They come in a 50 pound sack. They stack up in a small corner. MEMBER DINIZIO: do this. MR. JESSE REECE: those rods. MEMBER DINIZIO: I saw those rods, yes. So those things that basically you make --. MR. JESSE REECE: That's basically the only materials. CHAIRMAN: And the utility-, the main utility is gas which is --. MR. JESSE REECE: We have propane and then it's cooled in electric compartments. CHAIRMAN: OK, Mrs. Tortors? MEMBER TORTORA: MR. JESSE REECE: MEMBER TORTORA: MR. JESSE REECE: blowing." MEMBER TORTORA: MR. JESSE REECE: signed. MEMBER TORTORA: MR. JESSE REECE: It's probably the only material that you have, to I have those glass, those colored glass. I have are the two What ( ). Well, i brought a list of copies of. It's not complete, but if you want to see them. CHAIRMAN: Surely, we'd like to see them. MEMBER TORTORA: sell yonr works? MR. JESSE REECE: Here. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. MR. JESSE REECE: If you could name some of the places that you I have copies for everybody. Pass it down this way. There are three sheets. "free hand glass All my pieces are Are these, one of a kind? Yes. Are they created from a mold? No, what t do is called Are they signed? Yes, they're both sigmed. Page !2 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southo[d Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DOYEN: Is he selling off of his property? CHAIRMAN: He'll answer that. I'll jump on his question. Is itself. The question Mr. Doyen had, and there any retail from the property MR. JESSE REECE: Virtually none. Occasionally neighbors come by, but i don't advertise. CHAIRMAN: When and if ttzis application was granted, would there be any visual change to this building, than changing the doors or something. MR. JESSE REECE: Roll up the winds, they're are boarded up now. Other than that, i'm not planning on anything. CHAIRM~N: OK. MR. JESSE REECE: No signs or anything. MEMBER DINIZ!O: Do you have any chimneys or anything like that? MR. JESSE REECE: Yes, I might put one of those little round stacks up there. MEMBER DINiZIO: Is that required for the ovens, or is it just going to be for you to heat tile building? MR. JESSE REECE: That would just be for an exhaust. MEMBER DINIZIO: OK. CHAIRMAN: Yes? MEMBER TORTORA: What do you cai1 yourself? MR. JESSE REECE: Well, i'm an Artist, a Glass Artist. MEMBER TORTORA: Could you tell us what glass art is? MR. JESSE REECE: Well, basically art works made from glass. MEMBER TORTORA: Could you tell us a little bit about how this came about in terms of history, and what --. i don't think most people are familiar with this, and whatever information you can bring along. MR. JESSE REECE: Sure. About 30 years ago there was something called the ( ) of 1asr movement was born, and it came out of a graduate program at the University of Wisconsin basically, where in the ceramic department they deveioped small furnaces, that Artists would have access to material. Since then, it has grown through University programs, and Art Schools, '*-here I'd say uow, they're Page 13 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Sonthold Town Board of Appeals are probably 250 small shops like mine in the Country. Before this, glass was, hot glass was by in large, inaccessible to the Artist. It was mainly done in large scale factories. So the technology was reduced, so that Artist's could have access to it. Now there are many galleries across that strictly sell glass born of the Stuben glass move~nent. MEMBER TORTORA; I see you displayed the Art Institute in Chicago. MR. JESSE REECE: Well, I recently --. Well, I sold things for their museum shelves. MEMBER TORTORA: Have vou displayed elsewhere, like New York City or. places that might be ~amiliar with New York City? MR. JESSE REECE: Welt, I had a few shows llke in the World Finaimial Center in a place called ( ) Gallery. Other stores, a few stores called the American Craftsman that makes handmade things, I sell to, in New York. I've sold to Department Stores and buyers and numerous places on one sale, and somewhat pieces, all across the Country. MEMBER TORTORA: Mr. Doyen? MEMBER DOYEN: No. CHAIRMAN: ts there anything you would like to say at this point? MR.. JESSE REECE: Not really. I don~t really see that I would be altering the neighborhood in any way. Most people don't really know that we're out there, at the location that we're at. I mean, to inside visitors it's my art studio and I think it's pretty benign. CtlAIRMAN: OK. The process that you showed us last Saturday, myself and Mrs. Tortora - MR. JESSE REECE: Yes. CHAIRMAN; In the actual creating !'11 use, of glass. It could be a vase, it could have been as small cookie jar. it could have been anything you wanted to call it. The. maximum drone that we heard from your kiln, was the maximum amount of noise that you would be creating. Is that correct? MR. JESSE REECE: Yes. CHAIRMAN: And we did notice that there was a large fan in the building, and when I say fan I'm talking about a fan like the kind you see in Church for the circulation of the air. That would be the maximum amount of noise that we would hear, those two things if they were operating si~nultaneously. MR. JESSE REECE: Yes. Page 14 - Transcript of Hearings I~egular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: OK. Thank you. MR.. JESSE REECE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Ms. Gould, where are we going from here? JEN GOULD ESQ: Well, we could let other people talk. CHAIRMAN: Sure. Is there anybody- in this audience that would like to speak in favor of this application? Sir. MR. TOM SCHLETT: My name is Tom Schlett. I'm a jeweler here in Town. I've been here for 20 years, and the first time I met Jesse was out on the road. I sell jewelry and I travel ali over the country, and I do 20 or 30 art fairs a year, and like Jesse I sell to some craft galleries and jewelry shops. In general, craft movement is small shop~ two people. Me and my wife do it. You might have one part time employer. I see him more on the highway, t was with him two weeks ago in Morristown, New Jersey, in Michigan, i've seen him in, Ohio. So, it's small. They're nice, and they bring nice things to the area. He's a nice person. He does pace work, clean. I'd like to see him have a shop here of his own. CHAIRMAN: Anyone e!se like to speak kn favor? Anybody want to speak against. Oh, in favor, ok. We can always come back. MRS. MARTHA SCHOTT: I'm Martha Scott and I'm a sculpture in the Town of Southotd, and I think the more art works that are created out here, I think it's to the absolute betterment of the community-. In my 20 years out here, I've used compressors and so forth and so on, on the sculpture, and i've never had anything but good will for my neighbors. It's never been an annoyance to them. In fact, they- seem very interested in the pieces that are going and so forth, i think in the nature of Jessets business, I think people would be very- fascinated with the whole process, and I can't see that it would create any nuisance whatsoever. In fact, far less than a barking dog. To the community at large, it's wonderful to have such a distingTzished artist in a very- distinguished difficult media amongst us. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Anyone else? MR. STEVEN HELINSKI: Good evening. My name is Steve He!inski. I'm the crew at the glass studio. I~d ~ust like to say that in the couple of years that I've been working with Jesse, it's the safest operation i've ever seen. There is more safety nets, than most people have at home by~ the kitchen stove, as far as accidents go. That's all thought of, well in advance, and we haven't had any problems. It's also, been a great opportunity- for me to get involved _~n his craft. I just think it's a fine addition to the community. i've lived out here ail my life, and i've live in Cutchogn,te, Southo!d and Greenport, and just in residential area's I've had neighbors that have caused me alot of problems, just being obnoxious neighbors. As Page 15 - Transcript of Hearings R. egular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Jesse said, the neighbors on Rocky Point Road don't even know we're there. Thank you. CttAIRMAN: Thank you. Anybody else in favor. Yes Ma'am. MRS. POPPY JOHNSON: I'm Poppy Johnson and I live in Greenport, and when I moved here ]2 years ago with my husband, i had s studio in an abandoned, old commercial building in a residential neighborhood. We went through a great deal of trouble with the Village ]usu because nobody seemed to know what a studio was, or what artist's did. That's all be ~hind us now, and I don't think it's been any problem to the people that live around us, thai we make art. It is really an asset to a community to have artists. I lived in artist neighborhoods in New York City too~ and I really don't see it does Terrible things to neighborhoods or real estate values, have artists living there. CHAIRMAN: Before we go over to the negative. May I just ask you a question, Mr. Reece? What is the direct advantage of having the studio on site, other than the fact that you're not disenfranchised £rom the property. You don't have to drive to East Marion each day. Mr. JESSE REECE: Well, there is alot of preparation ~n my -work. Take's time for things to heat up, and it just -- For one thing, it would be much easier if I were right at home. I l~ave ~wo small children and [ could help .take care of them at times, and also economically. It would give me a chance m buy this property and build some equity, instead of continuing ~o rent this place which is also for sale, and it would jus~ give me some security. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Anybody like ¢o speak agains~ the application? Yes. Kevin, how are you tonight. KEVIN MCLAUGHLIN, ESQ.: i would like to hand out a couple of original letzers thai I sent you, xerox copies of. The first issue that i bad addressed in my first presentation to the board, was to the standing to the applicants. I understand from schools presentation, that there may be some kind of extension on the option. I won't know if anything has been presented to the Board to confirm that. Tile papers that I had seen that had been presented to this Board indicated that option expired on April tat and if so, I think there's a serious issue of whether or not the applicants have standing to pursue ~his application. Perhaps that could be remedied in some way with some written confirmation of an extension of that option. Certainly none of us here tonight, I don't think, are here to dcuigrate in any way the products that Mr. Reece produces. Obviously they are beautifui. The question really becomes, "is this an appropriate kind of business to be operated at the site that you would like to operate it?" The code is pretty specific and it defines manufacturing as any process whereby the nature, size or Page 16 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Soutbold Town Board of Appeals si~ape or articles or raw materials is changed or where articles are assembled or packaged, and I ,would submit to the Board that here, clearly, the size, the shape and nature of glass is being changed and tt~erefore if by its very terms falls witFHn the definition of manufactaring under the code, clearly manufacturing under the code is prohibited as part of a home occupation. That's in Section !00-3lC-2-h. So if what he is doing out there may be artistic, but if it involves manufacturing, the code specifically precludes that from being a home occupation. And I think that's really the first question this Board has to wrestle with. This isn't the same as a painter sitting in a room of his house as a studio, or sculptor using a portion of their house to create works of art. It's different by its very nature. Again I'm not saying that the products that are produced are not a wonderful product ~ clearly they are. We have submitted to the Board -- I know, a couple of you have visited the Rocky Point Road site. We have submitted a couple of pictures for any board members that haven't that i think might gffve you a fairly good idea of what it looks Hike inside presently, and of course it would be our position that the site on Rocky Point Road may be an inappropriate site for this kind of business, but not an old wooden structure located within a few feet of someone else's property tine and in fact according to their own survey, within the 50 ft. right-of-way. Assuming that the Board is able to get past the issue of whether or not this type of use violates the manufacturing prohibition, the second major issue you have to deal with is, "Are you going to allow the home occupation law to be someth~ing entirely different than what it says it is?" I think most of the Board probably remembers when the issue of home occupation was before the Town Board and it was a real hot topic. There were alot of people that were strongly against it. There were people that were decrying it as the downfall 9f any residential zone within the town. Perhaps they went too far, but I think the Town Board obviously heard the people and indicated that in the !aw that they passed that does contain subparagraphs (a) thr6ugh (h) which are attempts to mfl~imize the impact that a business run in a reside~atiat neighborhood might have upon the neighboring property owners. (Changed to Tape 2), ..."home occupation under the home occupancy law but then I want you to ignore Subsections (a) through (h) which are the very core of those types of businesses that can be run as a home occupation.~' Section 100-3~C-2 says that it permits certain home occupations provided that, and then it lists ~hose subdivisions; the first subdivision says, "no storage or stock in ~rade.' Clearly there has been an indication that there -would be storage of stock and ~rade at this location. The occupation in subdivision (b) must incidental to the residential use and only in the main bailding. Subdivision (c) talks about limitations on size within ti~e mahi buildin~ again. Subdivision (d) talks about "no Page 17 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3. ]996 Southold Town Board of Appeals exterior effect." I think there will be people here tonight that would indicate to you that they have been au the Rocky Point Road premises that there is considerable noise out side of that premises, and in fact whe[ we are talking about here again is the shed that is locsted within a few feet of the property Hne in the front yard area of a residential neighborhood. Subparagraph (e) really doesn't apply. It talks about dance and music studios. (f) talks about altering the appearance of the building. Again, I'm nor sure what the prior codes are and things like that, but I would have a difficult time believing that there wouldn't have to be some alteration of this very old wooden structure to allow the type of work to be done in there ~-ith propane gas and things as opposed to Rocky Point Road which is obviously a cemen~ block building. Subdivision (g) sets forth examples of inappropriate Type businesses. I would submit to the Board that the examples including things like barber shops and beauty parlors and things like that, would be less obtrusive on the neighborhood than the type of businesses that's being asked for, sanctioned here. And again subparagraph (h) in very language says, "No manufacturing, fabrication or construction of any type." It's very- clear. What I think the applicant is asking this Board to do is rewrite the home occupation law. I would submit to you that that's really an appropriate function of the Town Board that's a legislative function to change the law. With all due respect, I would submit to this Board that if they came in here and asked for relief of the size of the studio within the residence, or other types of relief within the confines of the requirements of the home occupation law, that's an appropriate relief but to totally re-write this law and to say-, it's a home-occupation law, it doesn't mean home occnpation law. It means you could do this in any structure within the property, he's not just seeking relief, it's seeking a total reformation of tkis law. And I don't think that's appropriate for this Board to undertake. Finally I think this would set a dangerous precedent if this kind of business can be operated in the building that these people would request you allow it to be run in, t don't know an?~here on the North Fork in the Town of Southold where this kind of operation would be less appropriate. You're going to, if you allow this to happen, have this I think pointed out to you on any application that anybody wanted to make for similar relief, and I think you would be bard pressed to try to distinguish it. Again, we are clearly not opposed to artists some of the people that are going to be speaking to you Tonight in opposition are ~:i~emselves artists. The question is, whether or not this is an appropriate site for this kind of a business and whether or not the home occupaney, occupation law is going to be totally rewritten by this beard or whether it is going to be enforeed. I'd like to allow some of the neighbors now, many of whom letters you have to try- to address the board and tell in their own words exactly how they feel about this application. Page !8 - Transcript of Hearings Regniar Meeting - April 3:1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN GOEHR!NGER: Let me just ask does anybody have any questions of ICevin at this point? MEMBER DINIZIO: I would just like to have your definition, try to differentiate between~ what this gentleman is doing and what an artist, say a painter would be, and why - how is there a different in the final product? MR. MeLAUGHLiN: Welt, again, my understanding of how he operates is somewhat limited and i clearly if I misstated let somebody explain that to you. A painter is sitting assumably under the home occupation law~ is sitting in a studio within his house painting on canvass or whatever means that person is choosing. What my understanding what Mr. Reece is doing is he's got furnaces tha~ are melting down glass products and within the defhfition of the code is ,manufacturing these products. Whatever you want to call them. i think that's totally different than the tdnd of thing that you're talking about wi~h a painter that's sitting there and not changing the quality of the product that's before them other than putting it on onto whatever means-- (a few persons interrupted with laughing). CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Tortora. MEMBER TORTORA: I confess I am married to an artist. An artist, and this is foe of Jim's question. An artist uses materials to create a painting, whether it's water color, whether it's oil, whether it's grapbAcs, whether it's pencii~ and that is one of the materials that he uses. Do you agree? MR. McLAUGHLIN: Clearly I agree with that. Sure. MEMBER TORTORA: Then he uses, it must of some kind of a , either canvass, board, whatever, correct? MR. McLAUGHLIN: Sure. MEMBER TORTORA: rest of statement). manufacturing? And he may frame it, or mat it, (could n6t hear When you consider stomping grapes, is that MR.. McLAUGHLIN: Interesting question. ! don~t know that I have the answer to it, what ! would submit to this Board that is wlnat is done wi~h the glass materials to change them into the products that you see today clearly is manufacturing under the code. Whether or not an artist taking the painting or whatever else and applying it to whatever medium is manufacturing, ! don't know that t would indicate that it is. But I think this is clearly a different process that we are talking about. We're talking about propane gas being used to melt down the products. My understanding, and again I'm subject to be[ug corrected, is that these ovens run ~4 hours a day basically ail year round, it being shut down maybe a couple of times a year for Page 19 - Tra.nscrip~ of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals whatever purpose, maintenance, or whatever. I think it's clearly different and again, I think that if you look az the definition in tt~e code, this is clearly a manufacturing process as defined therein. CHAIRMAN: Ok. MEMBER TORTORA: The only problem there is no definition of an artist in the code. There's a definition of home occupation, there's a definition of tnanufacturing, but I could not find a definition of artist. MR. McLAUGHLIN: I agree, there isn't one in the code. What I would submit to you too is, that an artist can also be manufacturing. I'm not saying that the two are mutually exclusive. An artis.t as part of its work may fall within the ambit of what manufacturing is defined in the code. I'm not saying the two are mutually exclusive. I don't think a painter is manufacturing, but I think what is being done here under the definition of the code is in fact manufacturing. CHAIRMAN: A gentleman in the audience just wanted to reflect on that. Could you just state your name for the record? JOSHUA NEFSKY: I just wanted to clarify that perhaps. It's really hard to define something Hke an artist. I work in the business. I'~n a photo~-apher and I shoot art, photo~o-rapkic art. I do it every day. There's sort of a loose term for that. I think what Jesse (Reece) does would be called an artisan. If you refer to it as an artisan. There's sort of brackets. They're artisan. They're craftsman. And they're artists. People traditionally under artist tend to be people like painters and sculptors, things like that. It can also say a musician, he's an artist. It's a phrase. So it's something that is not exactly defined, but t would specify that he be called an artisan. I don't know if being an artist is what this is all about. don't think that it is. But in terms of what we call it, that's what it ~;s. There's also another thing is that, in New York, in the Museums, you have certain things in certain places. Now, there is the crafts Museum, the American Museum of Crafts, which handle all tt~ose things. They handle textiles~ and glass., and folk art, that type of thing, ok. It's ( ) but it just might help to clarify something. You can say somebody is an artist. You can say, a ( ) is an artist, what they do. There are certain things, and I think what Jesse does would be classified as artisan. CIIAtRMAN: What's the difference between a craftsman and a ma!u/facturer? MR.. JOSHIIA NEFSKY: Well t think, manufacturing takes raw products and puts them into finished, takes raw materials and puts tl~e~n into a finished product. Whereas a sculptor would usually Page 20 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals works with ( ) and then he sends it out as a cast, a finished product. He's laughing, yon know. Again, I'm sa)ring. This is not s definite thing, it's just -- CHAIRMAN: OK. Do you have a question of this Gentlemen? MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes., [ would just like to know, you take photographs and deve!ope them. Are you an Artist? MR. -JOSHUA NEFSKY: ! don't consider myself an Artist. MEMBER DINIZIO: That's all I wanted to know. CHAIRMAN: OK MR. JOSHUA NEFSKY: Sometimes I do. When I take a great p~cture, i consider myself an Artist. MEMBER DINIZtO: Manufacturer, do you manufacture pictures. MR. JOSHUA NEFSKY: Am I a manufacturer? I'm actually what they would call a service, a service industry. MEMBER DIN!ZIO: OK~ but I mean, you have a dark room in your house or wherever. MR. JOSHUA NEFSKY: In the City I have a dark room. MEMBER DINIZIO: Would you say, when you take those films and go in~o the dark room, are you msnufacturing something, or is that product a manufactured product. MR. JOSHUA NEFSKY: I suppose you could stretch anything if you care to. MEMBER DINIZIO: i'm not trying to stretch it. I'm trying to understand whore this line is. it seems to me that's it's very --. MR. JOSItUA NEFSKY: t don't know if that's the ..... . CItAIRMAN: Do you mind if we continue this questioning for a minute, tqevin ? I(EV!N MCLAUGHLIN.~ ESQ: CHAIRMAN: Of anybody. MR.. JOSiIUA NEFSKY: I actually have something to say afterwards. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we'll be back to you. What we intend to do. I'll lc! this gentlemen speak, and what we intend to do is take a five minute recess after this gentlemen speaks. Questionin~ of me or questioning of him? Page 21 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: please. I need the spelling of your name CHAIRMAN: Just hold on one second. We need the spelling of your uame, Sir. MR. JOSHUA NEFSKY: Last name. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. JOSHUA NEFSKY: Nefsky. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: OK. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Kevin. Sir, could you state your name for the reco~d also? MR- BRIAN HAGIWARA: I'm Brian Hagiwara. I'm Jesse's neighbor. Nefsky is talking about is like 10 feet from my property, and very close to a house that used to be the Foreman's house originally. I'm also an Artist, and I'm for Artist's. I'm a painter, photographer and I also manufacture lamps and clocks and catalogers, and if--. ! dou't doubt that you're an Artist or that they're not beautiful. I'm for ail that. What we're talking about is that this is an old wooden barn, and his operation now is in a cinder block building, very hot ovens. It is noisy to me. There's an exhaust system on my roof in the City, that sounds just like that, and at night when it's on, you can hear it. It's a big buzz. When you're working, maybe you don't hear it, and that place out there is so quiet. ! love it. I would love to be able to convert one of my barns into manufacturing some of my Art work, but I respect what the Code says, not to do that in our buildings. It's the beauty of the place. I wouldn't want to do it, and I wouldn't want anybody else to do it. Although, I would love to do it. That's why I like it, you know. You have to make sacrifices. It's -- if you -~ We all have to make a living. We'd all like to work at home, make it convenient. I'd love to do that. But, we can't always do that. You know, it's just --, it seems that ttley'll set a precedent that a lot of people could build studio's of any nature they wanted, to do what they considered Art. But to me, that's not the issue. There's a ruling, there's a code that says, that is should be contained in the house, i want to respect that, because I think --. That's why this place is so pure and wonderful. CItAIRMAN: Thsnk you, ok. We're going to take approximately a five minute recess. Anybody is welcome to look at the production. I'm afraid to use any words here, ok. I will say this for the record. That's what has been so unique about this board. We're not here to interrogate people. We honestly like to speak to people, and see what their opinions are, and then we draw a conclusion based upon everything that we take either as testimony or everything we read. And by the nature of that, I'm just saying this for the bene[it o[ the people. We have a gentlemen to my left, on your Page 22 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April $, t996 Southoid Town Board of Appeals r'~gi~t, that has been on this board for ~4 years, ok. I've been on the board for 15 years, ]8 years almost. We do take everything to heart, and it's sometimes very very difficult for us to make a decision. In light of that, i just want to take approximately a five minute, a three to five minute recess, and I'll offer that Ladies and Gentiemen as a Resolution. MEMBER VILLA: Seconded CHAIRMAN: Before you leave, ail in favor, Aye. Mr. Murphy, we'd like to thank you for coming in. We're going to close your hearing at this point, and we mffli deliberate tonight. Hopefully, we'll get to it. Your welcome to call us, say Friday if you like. I can't tell you how long this hearing is going to go. IH! offer a Resolution closing the Murphy Hearing. MEMBER 'TORTORA: Seconded CItAIRMAN: Two people independently, while you were speaking kind of took the show away a little. We apologize about that, and now we'll move onto other people that have immediate concerns regarding this application. Who else would tike to speak. Yes Sir. How are you, Sir? MR. JOHN ZLOKLIKOVICZ: My name is John Zloklikovicz. My wife and i own a piece of property adjacent to the site. Although, we haven'~ seen the existinE operation, we've been getting some photos of ~t. I csn't identify what these various pieces of apparatus are, but it appears to me that ! do recognize two osculating fans, and what appears to be ovens. There seems to be substantial amount of duct work. I don:t ka~ow if that is all used, you know, with that equipment. But I g-uess~ one of my major concerns here is, if ail of this is going at the same time, there has to be an appreciable amount of noise, particularly if the statements i heard before are correct. That this is a 94 hour, 7 day a week, 52 week operation. So that's one concern we have. I can't for the life of me figure out, also how this will fit into this buildinv, .~thout drastically changin~ the structure, i passed it today and it seems to be a wooden structure that could use a lot of work and i just don't understand how you could use it 'as is". We're also concerned about any admissions that might be toxic. I'm not familiar with the process, i have no idea of what products that are used in conjunction with glass to make his final product. But it is a concern of ours. Also, if water was used in any of this Art work process, that you know, something might be leaking into the ground that we might regret someday. So, I g~aess from an environmental standpoint, we're really concerned about it. We certainly not opposed to Artist's but it certainly seems that it's ~ot an appropriate site in my mind. CtIAIRMAN: Can I just shed two things on this. When it was in Vogue to have gene~-ators, wind generators which basically were similar to what you had on every farm, pumping water at one time. We indepeadently went out and looked at the first wind generator Page 23 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - AFril 3, 1996 $outhold Town Board of Appeals that existed. That was in Laurel. A gentlemen by the name of Miller. Ti~ere was a substantial amount of drone that came from that generator, depending upon --. We went when it turned just like this, and then we went when it turned 30 miles a hour. Mr. Reece put together for me, and created a glass object about twice the size of this cup. I carried on a conversation with him, while he was creating it. The only thing that was not operating was the fan that I mentioned. The ovens are kept on because it eosz them --. It's like a pizza oven. It takes a long time for the ovens to crank up. So it's easier and more efficient to leave the oven on. I saw no water usage au all, except for possibly cooling a specific object, and it was taken out of a pot or pan, on a rag. I saw nothing noxious at all in the building. I guess if you dropped a piece of glass on the floor and ii broke, that would be the only thing that I could construe to be noxious. This is not to be construed as being that, I'm in favor of it. i'm just trying to answer some of your questions. Myself, and Mrs. Tortora on Saturday were there. Mr. Dinizio was there today. I saw it as a pretty clean operation. There is some dust. All operations create some dust, ok. That's what I saw. I just wan~ you to be aware that we did investigate this to a certain degree. MR. JOHN ZLOKLIKOCICZ: Well, I'm sure that you did. But you know, perhaps they were running to full capacity. I work for a general contractor and we operate a woodworking shop as parx of our business, and when we're only operating one piece of equipment. Yes. it's fine, you know. There's no problem. When we got the glue sprayers on, and when we have seven or eight pieces running at one time. you want to run away, that's how noisy it is. CItAIRMAN: Yes MR. JOHN ZLOKLIKOCICZ: You know, so I'm nor saying that's not the case. but perhaps it isn't. Also you mentioned the gas again, I would like to say you need pretty good storage facility for that. That's something that we all have to look at. It's nor going ro be a small tank. I would imagine that's it's up against the side of the shed. I would imagine that this is going to be a substantial tank. You know. you mention stacks. In fact, all we're going to see a four inch. s~x inch diameter stack, a couple of feet above the roof line or are we going to see something substantially more than that. CHAIRMAN: That's ail that there now. That's what I saw. Again, I'm not specifically in favor of this. I saw three kilns, two of which were operating and one of which was a finished kiln, all right, and I saw them cranked up to their Max. They were cherry red, all right. [ heard no drone. We spoke right over the top of it just as you and I are speaking now. In fact, almost lower. So i did not see anything. It looks like an ugly pizza oven. That's what it looks like. ~ mean, I'm being honest with you. That's what it looks like. I'm telling you the truth. I mean, t have no reason. I have no ties to this gentlemen or whatever the case may be. That's what I'm telling you it looks like, and quite honestly you really should Page 24 - Trauseript of Hearings R. egu~_~r Meeting - April 3, i996 Southold Town Board of Appeals look at it because it's really an interesting process. I just wanted to mention that to you. There's no way that I'm try-ing to sway you or any other nature. I'm just trying to tell you what ! visually saw. MR. JOHN ZLOKLIKOVICZ: Once you establish a site such as this~ ok, and if in the future Mr. Reeee decides to buy a much larger oven. Can he just go ahead and do that? Do you need to get approval from the Town as he ehanges this equipment? CHAIRMAN: What we would do. If the board was so inclined to grant it. I have no idea of how they are talking at this point, and I wouldn't make a ~uess because it preliminary. It would be in the existing building, ail right. We would probably- force _him to leave the door on the front of the building closed, so as not to create any- l~azard or any concern for any of his neighbors. When ! say the front i'~ saying toward the road. MR. JOHN ZLOKLIKOViCZ: the rear doors open? Excuse me. Would he be able to leave CHAIRMAN: Rear door, probably if he wanted to, in the Sum~nertime. Yes sure, he might want to for ventilating purposes. it would be so designated that it would be plaeed in that building, all rfght.~ and we could have an annual inspection. We could indicate that. We could have a semi annual hispeetion if we wanted to, and we on the board, on motion, eould ehange that which we've done in the past. We could have a one year permit granting -- We could do many, many things that we've done, not only- in Orient, but ali throughout. We just had an l! page decision on Robin's Island whieh was unprecedented in reference to ta~king eare of every single solitary element, of this gentlemen's Island, his 434 aeres, and I won't say that was everything we could think of at the time. in that particular respect, he has (Mr. Bacon) allowed us to come and inspect every single building that he created or reereates, after he has recreated it, and see if it conforms to what he has told us he's going to do there. So we have the power and the ability to do that, and we certainly could do that here if the board is so inclined too. I jnst mentioned this to you as something we're concerned about. Thank you very much for speaking. MR. JO,HN ZLOKLIKOV!CZ: Thank you. CitAIItMAN: Next person please. Sir, be right with you Ma'am. MR.. JOSII REFSKY: My name is Josh Refsky. ! live across the street: itt the Hoilock farmhouse, right across. I have some --. This is s letter that I sent you and I'm going to read it, but with all the discussion here, i have some extra things that i want to meutiou. My observations are based on visit's that I made to Jesse's place of busiuess. Fie said, when I got the PO I called him, and he said to come visit and i did: and he wasn't there the first time. ~ ~.e second time( because he wasn'~ there;) I made a specific app~fin~me~tt. The first time was during the week when the business ['age 25 - Transcript of Hearmgs Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals was operating full tilt. My wife and I szrongiy object re the application for a variance made by Jesse and Shelly Reece, re operate a glass blowing studio in an accessory building on property adjacent to ours. The word studio has a certain connotation, thai an artist's painting or a sculptured carving on molded clay. These are fairly benign activities. In this case however, there is an open gas fired furnace and molten glass creating a potentially hazardous situation. After making two visit's to Mr. Reece's existing place of business, these are our objections. Fire - a large gas furnace operating continuously day and night, with no one in attendance for half the time. It's only turned off a few times a year. Glass - I site glass everywhere. There's are bins and garbage cans full of small pieces with many broken pieces alt over the floor. When I returned it was much cleaner. Yet the proposed building ,.is just ten feet from the ~raveHng road, a situation that could create some concern. Noise The first time I entered Mr. Reece's facility, the noise was incredibly loud. Even though it was Mid-March and the doors were completely closed, i could plainly hear the mac,finery and vcutiiators outside. The second time returned, at an appointed time, it wss mysteriously quiet. You could carry on a conversation: just like you. When I went there the first time, it was so loud when I walked in the door, I didn't see anybody. I yelled a~ the ~op of my voice, "Is there anybody here" no answer. I kep~ on walking because I didn't wan~ ~o intrude. So I kept on yelling "Is there anybody here" at the top of my voice, notlming. Finally I found his assistant, right in the back. That's how loud it was. Clearly, there's a small manufacturing facility which is incompatible with a residential neighborhood. Our home is 220 feet from the accessory building that Mr. Reece proposes to use. My concern is for the Health and Safety of my family, and the negative impact on the community that tiffs precedent would set. That's what I've written. i have a few things that i would Hke to mention. Ms. Terrors, you asked him if he had one of a kind pieces. MEMBER TORTORA: Yes MR. JOSH REFSKY: When I spoke to him, he said that he was producing two lines. Two lines of things. CHAIRMAN: He admitted that to us too. MR. JOSH REFSKY: Basically, he was doing a production. He was doing two different types of arcizitects. CHAIRMAN: Can I answer that ? MEMBER TORTORA: My question to him was, is each piece original. MR. JOSlt REFSKY: It is original but I'm just saying --. Page 26 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1998 Southotd Town Board of Appeals MEMBER TORTORA: I'm just trying to distinguish. In other words, as opposed to a mold or somettfing. MR. JOSH NEFSKY: Right, ok. But I just wanted to say, that he told me he was doing two lines of things. The other thing about the doors being open. That would be groat for us in front. What about John, he's in back. The noise was realiy loud, it was very loud. The second time I went, and I brought that up, he took me outside, with ail the doors closed and said "Could you hear this" and there was some noise. The wind was behind my back at the time. But, it wasn't the same thing as the first time I went. i don't know what he has in there. I'm not familiar with it either, and even some of those fans weren't even on. This was mid-March. Is he going to keep this place closed? I mean, this thing is going on ail the time right, like 24 hours a day, in that building. Is he going to keep those do. ors closed, and those windows closed when it's like 85 degrees. And i asked him if you're going to put ant conditioning, and he said no. Just a Historical footnote here. As you might be aware, venetian glass is among the best glass in the world. In the year 129I the premises were banded from Venice for basicaliy two reasons. 1. They were bound to the neighboring Isiand Morrano. Basically because they were trying to conserve their secrets. The second reason is because they kept burning down the place. CHAIRMAN: Thank you MR. JOSH NEFSKY: Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Ma'am. Do you want to speak. I apologdze for pointing, but I don't know your name so I can't say your name. MS. DEB WINDSOR: I'm Deb Windsor and i 1/ye in Orient. CttAIRMAN: How do you do. MS. DEB WINSOR: I'm also the assistant project manager for Robin's Island project, which you used as an example, earlier so I'll address both. CHAIRMAN: I didn't use it as an example in reference to comparing to this project. I used it as an example of what we are dealing with when we're dealing with certain aspects. MS. DEB WINSOR: i do submit that if Robin's Island had proposed putting in glass works on the Island, they never would have passed ~;t. Hsd they asked to set up a custom glass operation or a ( ) wind shield, you would have asked for an Engineer's report about the decibel levels. You would have asked questions about the amperage, and the service to the property, whether it's underground or over grgund. You woo!d have been concerned about putting a heat processing facility in a Historic wood frame structure. ! also submit that I saw stacks that were four to six inches wide, and you Page 27 - Transeript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals saw a facility that was cherry red. If my wood stove in my house ran like that, I would be shut down tomorrow. The wood stove in my house requires and eight inch double insulated stack. I'm not suggesting that it's not an compliant, a code compliant facility. But I do have serious questions about what wilt be a code compliant facility. CHAIRMAN: We did have a tremendous problem with the period of time [hat the g-unning goes on over in Robin's Island and the decibel leveling of the gunning. But it did not become an issue because certain people called me personally on the telephone, and did, not make it an issue. MS. DEB WINSOR: I think a gunning operation is considerably different from glass blowing because first of all, a gunning operation, is compliant with hunting regulations and sporadic noise. We're t@lking about a prolonged series of noise in a residential area. We're not only talking about concerns about fire, and community safety. We're also talking about fans, circulators, employee and delivery traffic on a very small residential read. Another reference to, it doesn't create alot of dust. No, there's ~ot s. to~ of dust in a residential neighborhood right now. I happen to live right up the street from it, in a Historic structure that I'm restoring and I've got a nice shed in the back and I'd love to turn it into a wood shop, that I could make artistic cabinets, If he passes his application, I'!1 be the next one here in line to get one. CtlAIRMAN: Can you share with me the man across the street that does the metal work? How much noise does that make? MS. DEB WINSOR: Eddie Wysocki, next doqr to me? CHAIRMAN: No, across the street from this gentlemen that's proposing this application. MS. DEB WINSOR. Bob Berke's place. CttAIRMAN: Yes MS. DEB WINSOR: He lives down the road from me. CHAIRMAN: Is there any noise emanating from there? MS. DEB WINSOR: Well, I'm not sure that's a fair question because he ins a very large insulated structure. I'm not sure how much fabrication he does on site, and again --. CHAiI~MAN: There's a large buffalo outside. Was that built outside or inside? MS. DEB WINSOR: I'm not sure but I believe all l~s manufacturing happeas inside. Like i say, I'm coneerned that this is a incomplete Page 28 - Transcript of Hearings R. egular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals applicatiou, and that we're granting a zolzing variance into perpetuity as far as I understand. Once he's been granted this variance, what about the next residence. When does glass olowm~. become manufacturing glass windshield, and I think the argument about whether someone is an artist or not, is a total distraction from your mandate from the voters to establish a zorJng, and good neighbor, good neighbor policies. Also, what's been unmentioned we have very little ground to stand on. The property is part of the Hallock farm. It's a small Historic structure, in an area that was potato fields, potato farmers. CttA!RMAN: OK DEB WtNSOR: Again, If you pass this application, I'i1 be the next one hi line because Pd love to set up shop if that's the precedent you want. I would ask as a neighbor that you don't and Um willin~ to relinquish my right to manufacture on my property. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Sir, you had a quick question? JOSIt NEFSKY: it wasn't a question. You just asked if Bob's (Berke) operation made any noise. When all this came about I went to speak to Doris, who lives right next to Bob. We were talking about it and she went, "Are you crazy" I mean, this guy makes so much noise back there. CHAIRMAN: Well i can see, he's working with steel, metal and copper and brass and everytifing. So I could see. MR.. JOSH NEFSKY: He's as far away from her as I am to Teresa's place. CHAIR. MAN: Does he do it inside or outside? MR. JOSH NEFSKY: Depending on the season and depending what l~e's doing. Generally, he works inside. CIIAt I{MAN: OK MS. DEB WINSOR: Is that mainly because of zoning? CItAIRMAN: I have no idea. I'm not discussing that. I'm only discussing what exists in Orient now. Ok. Let's take the average situation of a barn in question, and a farm-producing barn aspect. We could go on from there and we could go into grape farming. Grape farming is a production of a product ail right, from a grape. When we granted applications for vineyards in grape farms in this area, during the mashing season which is approximateI~- three or four weeks in the fail. The noise was so intense that the neighbors begged us to place the mashing pad, so to speak, 400, 600, 800 feet from their homes. Ail I'm saying is that there are certainly things that people do on their property and sometimes they make noise and sometimes they d.on't. Page 29 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 $outhold Town Board of Appeals MS. DEB WiNSOR: As we here begging them now. CHAIRMAN: I understand. MR. JOSH REFSK¥: Last year in the Fall, someone was setting up this large gun in Orient. I ~tess, I don't know what it was. I think it was an explosion. I think it was to scare away the birds or something. CHAIRMAN: Probably from the grapes. MR. JOSH REFSKY: It was pretty irritating. But at least it was every five minutes or something. This is going to be a continuous roar. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Roar? MR. JOSH REFSKY: Maybe I'm exaggerating it as roar. But it's silent up there now. It's going to be a continuous noise, continuous. CHAIRMAN: Anyone else before we move on, Ms. Gould. MS. GOULD: One of tile issues that Mr. McLaughlin brought up was the issue of the written confirmation of the extension. I have it somewhere here, and I'll give it to you. They do have it in writing from Paul Caminiti, the Attorney for the Scharbenbroich's. The issue or one of .the issues seems to be, is this manufacturing or is this art, or is this a combination of the two. You know, Kevin, right from tile code, the manufacturer --. Manufacturing is any process, whereby the natural size or shape of articles for raw materials is changed, or articles are assembled for package. Weil, ~ it's any process that means, every Artist is a manufacturer or vice-versa. So, we're here before the Zoning Board because the Zoning Board is going to interpret the Code, and tell us whether they think his glass studio is manufacturing. If you look at legal or Webster dictionary definition of manufacture, "literally put together by hand". Now it means the process of making products by hand, machinery or other automated means. The process or operation of making goods or other material produced by hand., by machinery, or by other agency. Anything made by raw materials by the hand, by machinery or by art. So, where are we? I think we have to talk about it in terms of the history of glass manufacturing in this Country, and what the Studio Glass Art movement is all about. I have with me -- (chaaged tape inaudible) From this book, it's a ]990 put out by the Cerning Maseum of Glass. it's called Masterpieces of American Glass, and there are two chapters in here, the one that I thought ---. But first, the advent of mass production, and I think if we're going to h~lk about what glass manufacturing is. Page $0 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting, - April 3, 1996 Southoid Town Board of Appeals What was it, and what is manufacturing of glass. Well, beck in the 1800 to 1900 is where glass manufacturing in this Country really took off. They used molds, and in the molds slot of decorative was already- established. There was !ess need for skilled Artist or Artisans, whatever you want to call the people that were doing the glass manufacturing. Towards the ]8fi0, !850, they developed something called a pressing machine. So that you didn't need a glass blower. You pressed the glass into mold, and the machine did the work. It was an automated process. So, what you had in the factory was, you had a designer, you had more and more unskilled labor that would run these pressing machines. Five people by the middle of the Century would run the pressing machines, and they could product 100 glasses an hour. Now what does Jesse do.? Jesse works in a studio by himself, .he uses his assistant. For those of you that don't know. Steve is one half of a famous restaurant called pair, Salamander's Cafe. So he's not there ail the time, ali year round anyway. What Jesse and Steve do, is they- create~ they design. They come up with a concept. They create, you saw the process. They- do evarything by hand, and one of the tools they use is a furnace. It melts the glass, and then there is the cooling oven. But that's not ~nanufacturing. Those are structures used to heat the materials to ready the materials. There is no automation here. There is no division of labor~ tons of employees. It's just not manufacturing. You're the ones that are going to determine that. But, i have Xerox these chapters, because Jesse was telling me earlier about the studio glass movement. !t~s a relatively new movement in terms of an Artistic movement. It only began in i96~ at the Universit}; of Wisconsin. But since then, it proJ~erated, and this book, contemporary art glass --, contemporary- art glass all over the world. But it starts with the United States, and in each little blurb that they have about the Artist, they talk about what the Artist do~ where they work. Well, they work in their homes. Or they- work in studio's on their property. They don't work in factory's or manufacturing plants. This third book, it's called Studio Glass Making, and basically talks about ali the products that are used in studio glass making. How to build you own furnace for your own house? What kind of hook ups you need, and that kind of this. So it's more of a "how to thing" But, the whole point of this is, not manufacturing like a factory. Manufacturing is a very- broad term, and our Code has defined it very broadly. You have to narrow it in the interpretation. What Jesse does, he said. He doesn't do any retail from his store. He doesn't do any retail. Someone comes in, a l~rlend and says, can ! buy something? That's not retail. He doesn't want to do retail. The shed that he wants to use-- He won*t be pt~l. tfag a. si~ of that shed. He does not want to attract attention to himself. Page 31 - Transcript of Hearings Reguisr Meeting - April 3, 1996 Sos[hold Town Board of Appeals I was concerned that maybe his studio would be noisy. So, I wanted to know from a neighbor what it was like, when we were visiting, I think it was --. Mr. Goehringer you were there when Walter Gaipa came over. He was a neighbor and said --, and he wasn't solicited to come over. He was just around and he said, " Jesse is a great guy", I have no problems. There are no problems with this operation. Well, Katie Sepenowski, and her husband Peter, and their two children live directly across the street from the studio. I called Katie yesterday and said, "What are your feelings about this?. Do you have a problem with this? And she said no. I never even know he's here, and so I asked her to write a letter, and I'd like to read her letter. I've gffven a Xerox copy and I have the written one. "Member of the Board [ currently reside in East Marion on Rocky Point Road directly across from Jesse Reece's Art Studio. He has been our neighbor for the last [our years. In that time he has maintained such a low profile, you might not know that he was even there, except fo~ the beautiful glass works [hat he crea~es. He m~.de a gift of one ~o us after my husband plowed his driveway two winters ago. His Art Studio has no~ caused me any problems. His Studio is contained inside. I've seen no refuge around the building and as far as ~ can see, his craft poses no environmental risks. As far as noise, there m none. Because he hand crafts, his visits ~o the Studio are" sporadic and I can't recall seeing moro than ~wo or three cars a~ a time. As a resident, [ believe Mr. Reeee would be a good neighbor in the Orient community. Please consider his application for a variance. Sincerely Catherine Sepenowski." The people [hat talked tonight about, talked ~bout manufacturing, but perhaps the real concern is safety, and doing it in this wooden building. The reason we're before the beard ts, Jesse had no intentions of moving into this wooden s~ruczure, as is. As you've seen it. It has a dirt floor. It needs a concrete floor. He went ~o the Building Deparzmen~ ~o make a application for a building permit, ~o make ~nodifications. Anything he does to that building will have ~o be in accordance with code. Southotd Town enforces ~he New York State Uniform Code~ and from that code it refers you to lhe Nationai Fire Protection Association, for the insulation of gas They have to follow --. They being the Gas Company. Jesse fioesn't do the insulations. The Van Duzer does. A company like that. Tiiey have to follow speckle F and PA regulations. It's regulation 54 and 58. They can be no deviation from that. i called Vau Duzer~s and asked. What about the emissions from the stack? Is carbon monoxide an issue? They said, absolutely not. It's negotiable. That's why yon have proper installations, you know of the gas. so that there isn't a problem. So everything he --. See the ws.y bis furnaces are installed now. They would have ~o meet code. and be installed the same way in the building. He wants to take ~his Historic building. He doesn't want to ~-. He wants to maintahi the appearance. Page 32 - Transcript of Hearings ilegtt!ar Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals That's the issue in the Home Occupation Law. Are you goh~g to create a negative impact, an appearance impact on the community. He will not. He's going to put windows in where there are boards. He~s going to put a floor in. The wails will be insulated. They will be fire proofed. He's living here with his family. He is as concerned about safety, as his neighbors are. He's going to live here. This is as important to him as his neighbors, and I think he respects his neighbors concerns, and he will do everything in his power to make sure it's the safest operation possible in accordance with the code. This operation will be incidental to the main use. He tells me --. I ask, how many of these glass 'works do you create in a week? Thirty to forty maximum. That's just not manufacturhig mass production of what the opposition was talking abont. Is traffic an issue? He has one part time assistant that's there. ~ie figures that UPS comes maybe, once a week to pick up his things, that he ships to other places. In terms of --, what's the effect goiug to be on the exterior effect of this operation, on the neighborhood[ It's a very clean operation, as you said. There is no runoff of water. Everything is recycled. The glass is used again. The only things that he has to dispose of are the old bags. The 50 pound bags that the batch comes in, and ~h~ newspapers that ne uses when he's handling glass. The wet newspapers that you saw him bringing out. Eventually, that has to get thrown out. But that's not ehemieals. That's not chemicals leaching into the ground water and again, the family lives here. He~s not going to do anything to the groundwater on his own property. There wi11 be no outside storage. Everything he does is inside the building. He's in a residential neighborhood now. He would like to relocate in a residential neighborhood, and I think one thing that tmsn't been said. What's unique about this residential neighborhood? is there already two Artist's in residence in this .neighborhood; who have not altered the residential appearance or nature of the neighborhood. They're considered as asset's in the community, and Jesse would be too. What he ~oes is fascinating: and this is the kind of thing that the Home Occupation Law encourages. it's something that's kept the economic liability of this To~-n going. I have other literature. You asked, what kind of event that Jesse intended beside the business cards. He brought into my office, and I copied applications to the Craft Fairs, Designer Crafts that be attends, and you just can't go to these things. You have to submit slides, and you have to qualify, and be accepted, and ! -won't give you all of these. But I want to read what some of these say. ' We accept only contemporary or original American Art crafts. The work displayed must be created by the exhibitor. We do not accept ~mp~pted or manufactured items, antiques, collectibtes, or assembled jewelry, embellished eommereia! objects or objects from commercially available kits or pattern. Pretty much, every single one of these says this, some much that those kind of words". Page 33 - Transeripz of Hearings t~.egalar Meeting - April 3, ]996 Southold Town Board of Appeals I want to jump back to the safety. I also have copied the specs, for all of his equipment, that you can look at. The Perell Glass Studio, who supplies him for his furnaces and I also have the specs on the --. These are [or the batch, and these are breakdowns. These are components. So, it's like each component that might-be in tile batch that you might have to see. CHAIRMAN: You gmng to submit all of this stuff? MS. JEN GOULD: Pardon me? CHAIRMAN: Are you going to submit all of this stuff? MS. JEN GOULD: I'm going to give it all to you tonight, so you can look at it again. CHA!I{MAN: OK. Where are we going from here? Is there anybody else that you're calling on? MS. JEN GOULD: Yes CHAIRMAN: Could you do that because I have to be honest with you. We have to be stop about 10:15, and we have one more hearing to go, and we have a decision to make. So, I'm not rushing you but I want to get going. MS. JEN GOULD: OK The last person I wanted To call if you have any questions of me or Jesse. is Scott Harris. I retained Scott to come and appear as a expert witness, because I thought it was important [or someone that drafted the Home Occupation Law, to maybe, speak to the group about what it was, and what the felling of the people of the Town Board was, at the time when the Law was passed. What they thought manufacturing was, so I'll turn the podium over to Scott. CHAIRMAN: Good evelzing. How are you? MR. SCOTT HARRIS: Good evening Ladies, and Gentlemen ~ of the board, Ladies and Gentlemen~ On this gathered room of ours, it's indeed a pleasure to be here tonight. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Reece tonight. I've not met the Gentlemen before. I was the Supervisor of the Town of Southold for the years I990 through December 1993. The years when the Home Occupation Amendment ca,ne up. During that ~ime frame we heard many, many discussions, in reference to pros and cons, in reference to the Home Occupation Law. The Home Occupation Law - as you well know being a cross eyed judicial body, and one who interprets the law, and no one else can but you - was in existence when this Town Board in 1990, 9t and 92, took up tile issue of Home Improvement Amendments. One of the reasons that the Home Occupation Amendments came up, was because the economic viability of this Town was being threatened. Page 34 - Transcript of Hearings Reg~Ilar Meeting - April 3, 1996 Sou tbold Towns Board of Appeals ,_Never was it discussed by board members, those legislatures that eaacted two local taws in 1991 and 1992 discussed Artist~ what they could or could not do with their property. Artists were always deemed~ via right. One because Artists are subjective in astute. Art to you may not be Art to another. But an Artist, by tile very term Artist, was never put in the Code, just beoause it was very nebulous. As you adequately addressed earlier~ or one to the members of the audience did. Tb.ere is no definition of Artist. One of the reason that t~his board addressed the Home Occupancy Law, was because of the economic viability, as i had mentioned earlier. Artists are not rich people. Artists have never beeu in a position of being in -wealth. Artists barely survive. Those that are in true art form, don't even sell their works of art. For their pride, they would rather ~o out and beg for bread and cheese, rather than sell a work of art. i have been in this Town all my life. I have been in Orient where Mr. Reece is proposing to buy for ~_6 years. I also have a Bachelor of Fine Arts Degn~ee in Photo~c~raphy. So I do have a fine art background. Vm very familiar with many~ many processes. I'm familiar with Mro ~eece~s process, as well as many other Artists and their process. Manufacturing was never deemed to be part of Ibc Artist's trade. Manufacturing was thought to be, for those individuals that were in the Home Occupancy Trade such as: cnrpenters, plumbers, electricians. When it says, no storage of goods, we the Legislature, meant no storage of goods such as: an electrician who would have hundreds of cases for instance, of ligi~ts that he would be installing in residential or commercial property. Or cases and cases of wire, that he may be installing for residential purposes. Or the Carpenters, who maybe had palates and palates of wood for Home Improvement purposes to be stored on the premises, as well as the other trades. Manufacturin~ was deemed, and solely deemed by that legislative board, to be for the trade people only. If this board deems in its wisdo~n, that manufacturing should have been a method, well hindsight is 90-fi0. We thought we covered everything. I'd would like to read --. This is one of the few local Laws because of its intensity~ and because of the economic impact of this community which kept the service and trade people viable, and didn't drive them out. Wtzich also kept down the cost for the residents who benefited from tlzis local Law. I would like to read for you, the definition from the code, which certainly i'm sure you're familiar with, and you could almost ~luo[e verbatim. But, one of the reasons why we put it in the code, is its Legislative intent. One of the few laws that you'll find "Legislative Intent'' being put into the code. As you well know this code rarely has Legislative intent behind laws when they were passed. If you want to research the minutes, and go behind all that, you certainly could try to get a jest of what took place. But what took place in this local law, was Legislative Intent, purposely put in, so there would be no question of why it was passed. And if at tbis t/me i'd like to read that. In the interest of ( ). Pa~e 35 - Transcript of Hearings I{.eg~dar Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southoid Town Board of Appeals f realize you have another application and so I will try to sum up as quickly as possible. Thank you for your time. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: I'm going to embellish a little bit on this to say the board~ meaning the Town Board at the time so, I'm going to start. The Home Occupation including home professional office, which by right any artist can do as you well know, without having to come before any board and ask permission. Such as a Dentist, or a Doctor or a Lawyer. They can always work out of their home, and Artists were always included in that defirtition. Home occupation including home professional office, and home business office. An amendment that we put in, which included people in the Computer Industry, who sold through their home by phone, and so on. These businesses were allowed in Southold Town. Now I can say that in the four years or more that has transpired, since these local laws were adopted, there has not been one instance that I have heard about, where this has been detrimental to any neighbor in a residential area. There was a lot of concern, a lot of unknowns. And certainly I appreciate the neigi~bors, who have concerns for something they don't understand or possible don't know, and certainly that is the mature of us, as human beings. But again, knowledge is a wonderful thing, and it also can be very dangerous. It could be used and twisted for. means which are not, in my opinion, what's considered to be, for the viable economic reality of Southold Town. The people and the residents here, who would welcome Artists into this community and send a terrible message. Artists go away, except if you're in this meeting. That ia a terrible message. It should have never even been brought up because art is a subjective art form, as I said. Of a subjective nature by itself. It should not even have been interjected hito this arg~ument. One of the interesting parts about this, and I'll finish my conversation in just one minute. The Town Board recognizes that residents historicaily, have or operate a small businesses, which provide services to the community from their homes. The board, the Town Board finds that these businesses have not impacted negatively, on tile appearance of these residential zones. In the board's judgmeut~ it finds that in order to maintain the economic viability of the Town, to maintain the rural quality of life, in the interest of tbe welfare of the residents. These businesses or home occupations should be permitted to continue. [n setting forth the following subsections 100-31, the board inteaded to pem~fit as a right, certain business uses in resideutial zones with the understanding that these uses are to be coud~icted itl a manner which will not alter the character of r,esldential neighborhoods. The board believes the following Page 36 -Transeript of Hearings Reg~,flar Meeting - April 3, 1996 Souti~old Town Board of Appeals subsections provides sufficient safeg-uards, to accomplish that aim. Now there were a number of subsections that are listed after that. Most of these, I would say probably entirely, deal with the trade people. Never were art or artists or artisans or whatever terms you want to put on it, deemed to be detrimental to the Southold Town, and its community as a quality of life. I sub,tilt to you, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Board, that the only ~hing that is being mahufactured is this issue. Which is an issue that should not even be befere you, except for the fact that the code is not clear on accessory uses for artists, if we deemed at the time, that t~s z~e of probie~n or concern would come up, we would have addressed accessory use buildings (for you to make your ~e easier) and certainly to make the life of appticant, who was tai~n~ about buyin~ properties, those who are artists make their Hfe easier to welcome them iht5 this community. And with tha~ I open any questions to you? MEMBER VILLA: Yes, I have a question, Scott. You say it was never addressed on accessory buildings. ! would have to ttfink that, it. must have been because it's explicit in the code, that it says? "It must be in the primary building" It wouldn't be in there. It would bare been left ( ) if you hadn't done that. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: Mr. Villa, artists were never brought up in concept, for any part of the home occupation amendment because artists we re considered zo be~ innocuous in the nature of their business. MEMBER VILLA: Well I'll tell you. ! have a problem in addressing this under the home oecupation law because ! ~hink this is a dangerous precedent, to set it under the home occupation law. ! think if you address it as some other means maybe. We have addressed artist studios where they do sculpting in accessory bnildings, and we've g~£anted those kind of things. But to address this under the home occupancy --. I think it's the wrong avenue, wrong situation. I mean, you drafted the code and you put in. It had to be in the main building, and there would be ~o manufacturing. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: If I may interrupt. In 1982, the home 0occupancy taw. In !983, correct me if I'm wrong. Linde or Jerry or Serge who has been on the board for 44 5rears. The home occupation law was adopted by prior administrations in 1982 or 1983. The amendments sueh as, trades and so on, were put in in 1991 and 1992. The artist part of bein~ in the main part of the house, was always in the law. SE(:RETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's right. MR.. SCOTT HARRIS: We did not touch that part of the code. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKt: That's right. Page 37 - Trsnseript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1998 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. SCOTT HARRIS: That's been existing for 14 years. MEMBER VILLA: Well yes, but if it wasn't --. You're saying that accessory buildings were never addressed. It would have to mean, that this tlgaag went on for weeks or months; on forever. It was in the paper all the time. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: An artist, I think if you look at the minutes, Mr. Viila~ You would see that artists were never a concern. I don't remember artists coming up in the conversation, by any residents as being a concern to them, with an amendment to the existing home occupa~lcy law. MEMBER VILLA: I'll grant you that, but there is not even a definition of an artist in the cede. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: (Inaudible) MEMBER VILLA: You didn't address it. I don't tkink home occupancy is the right section to address this on. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: Well unfortunately, home occupancy again, with the definition of home occupation (which you have in front of you). SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It's there. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: I know you're very familiar with being board members. Home occupation, people who are using their homes for deriving an income, come under home occupation. Now artists, as I said, aren't considered to be those people who are very- wealthy. Artist such as Mr. Reece I understand as I said, I met earlier to,night. Mr. Reece is renting an establishment on Rocky' Point Road in East Marion. I'm sure that the amount of money, (I don't know how much it is), but I'm sure that overhead alone could well be put into his products to maybe enhance kis art form more than they are now, because of the limited capitol, I'm sure that he has to use. It's probable hindering his artistic ability. MEMBER VILLA: I realize that. MR.. SCOTT HARRIS: It could well be as many artists. It was brought up earlier that one of the gentlemen here mentioned that manufacturing was because he bought sand. Excuse me if I'm so blunt. But he bought sand in 40 or 50 pound bags and he's manufacturing. I submit .you can apply that to any art medium such as sculptor, and when somebody buys plaster of paris. Which is a dry product that they have to mix with water. It come in 40 or 60 pound bags and I'm sure that it wasn't meant at the time, to be stock and trade for that's not considered to be manufacturing, because they }]ave to stock plaster of paris. Page 38 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: I still don't think it's the right section of the code because home occupation -~. We have the monument up on Cox Lane and Route 4S, when they were starting to go after the service people, the plumbers and the carpenters, and everything else. They were starting to put them out of their houses. Then, a gentleman built that building up there to house those people, and then the law went into effect and that was no longer necessary. MR.. SCOTT HARRIS: Again Mr. Villa let me explain. I'm not here certainly to reintegrate what the intent was of every board member and every interpretation by the resident of this taw as it was enacted. But, the main purpose of the law was to keep the small business person such as the Carpenter, the Mason, the Electrician.. who had one employee or less, working out of their home. Not having to spend $i100 or $1200.00 a month in the facility where he had no need for that type of space. Not to mention, couid never afford tl~e overhead. MEMBER VILLA: I realize that. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: Those facilities that are up there now, are large facilities, large operations that need the spaee, and they don't even conform. Nor could they- apply to be home occupancy as the code exists. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Harris. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: Anybody else? Thank you. CHAIRMAN: We have one question from tb4s gentlemen. Thank you again~ You have to address the question here. MR. : I don't know if we're objecting to manufacture or if he is an artist. I would like him in the neighborhood, i'd like you as a neighbor. I own some of his pieces. I bought them from Jesse years ago in New York City. i'm an artist too. That's not the issue. If he were able to convert his barn to be a studio to make his glasses. I could convert my barn to make my lamps.. Jogh could convert his barn to do photographic, whatever. There would be twice as many structure as there are now. The next step is why don't I convert the garage in~o something then. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: Are you afraid of being overrun by art studios? MR. trying -- It's setting a precedent. I'm just saying we're MR. SCOTT HARRIS: Who lives right next to you. Is that an artist. MR. :: He's an artist. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: Who lives right next to Josh. Page 39 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 So~ithold Town Board of Appeals MR. : If there was a town meeting and those structures were going in there (before they were), I would be here saying tile same timing. They were there years ago. I moved into the place after they were there. So you see I have to speak up about respecting the code and not allow it To set a precedent. It has nothing To do if it's manufacturing or not. CHAIRMAN: Did you want to reflect on any of this, since you so nicely did such a great job. MR. SCOTT HARRIS: Mr. Chairman, on a personal note and re put another hat ar this time. [ would welcome Mr. Reece or any other artist who I haven't met or served. But if you have a prayer and would like to do that. If you had an accessory building which I don't evea know you do, and you have a farm which I'm very familiar with. Wha( this gentlemen did, and it was permitted by the board re do. I think that is the quality- of life in Southotd Town deserves and certainly would appreciate. It ls not a type of industry people would object re, such as those who are talking about smoke stack studio. MR- doing it. It's not like we're saying he can't do it. He CHAIRMAN: Ok, thank you again. Mr. McLaughlin, is there so~nething you want to say? MR. KEVIN MCLAUGHLIN: Very briefly. The only time when you need to go to the "intent of legislature" is if there is some ambiguity. Clearly, there may be some ambiguity about whether this is an artist or manufacturing. Let's go beyond that. Let's. get to the secondary issue of where they are tr}~ing to put this concern. This ordinance is totally unambiguous. There must be .six or eight times within the confines of 100-31C, where the use of the word home, pril~cipai residence, main building is used. Clearly, the only intention of the home .occupancy law was to allow certain innocuous operations out of the principal residence. What they are asking you to do again tonight is to legislate. They are not asking you to interpret. They are asking you to change that home occupancy law to say, "Home occupancy law and also if you want to do it in a accessory building, that's ok too." That's not what the code says. That not the problems of this board to legislate. If there is enough support to go before the Town board, amend this and Mr. Harris wants to indicate what *.lie prior town board thinking or along those lines, that's fine. But it's not appropriate for this board. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. then we have to go? You had one other quick question and MR. : It's not a question. .It's a co~lple of comments that I heard. I'll be quick about this. Ms. Gould said somethiug about other buildings being altered in the area. That titere weren't any-. Well Bob's has been conaiderably altered. He Page 40 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Sonthold Town Board of Appeals bought a schoolhouse there, and then put a monstrosity on the back, and there are armatures and cranes, and that's been quite altered. The other thing is. I don't buy- this starting artistry- team. You know, that building, i heard a quote, $375~000.00. Maybe it's $350,000.00 I don't know, but it's twice as much as a normal building or the average building in this area. So~ I think that argument is wrong. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Ms. Gould do you have anything else? I have one question for Mr. Reece. JEN GOULD: Ok. I would just like zo say one thing about artist. What we're asking for the board to do is look at the reality of the situation in this Town, and !oak at every other artist in this Town. There isn't one artist in this Town that has been forced into com~nerci~i space. As Scott said, as a right artists can work in their houses., whether it be their houses or out buildings in their houses. The fact is, many of them have done it. it's accepted in the community. It's encouraged in the community. Jesse had to come to the board because of his own --. He couldn't take this risk of just moving in and doing it. Probably no one would have known about it because he wouldn't have been offensive. ( ) ! brought a letter from his neighbor that didn't even know what he does and he didn't ka~ow he was there most of the time. The fact is, artists are doing it ail over the Town. I don't want to see the Town or put the board in a position; "don't tell, don~t ask". If you"re put in a hard position. ! know you will consider all the facts. He just wants to do it the right way, which is why he came to you. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Can I just ask you. What are your intentions of the building, other than the exterior. What are we doing iuside. Are we going to insulate this building inside? Are we going to drop lights down, or are we going to put --. MR. JESSE REECE: We!l, I'll put some lighting in the floor. CttAIRMAN: Right. MR. JESSE REECE: A home ceiling. CHAIRMAN: What is the nature of the heat situation in the Summertime. It mnst become almost unbearable in there. MR.. JESSE REECE: Well it get's hot. Glass blowing is hot twelve months of the year. CHAIRMAN: OK, what are the hours that you're going to operate, appro×i~nately? Page 41 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southoid Town Board of Appeals MR. JESSE REECE: Generally I work during the day. CHAIRMAN: OK, are the --. Is there a reason zo fire these kilns at night for any particular reason? MR. JESSE REECE: Well the one glass melting furnace, like everyone is concerned~ runs constantly. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. JESSE REECE: But the noise that Josh refers To when he came back was mysteriously quiet. That is the normal running noise of the thing, when I'm nor standing in front and working there. CIIAIRMAN: Yes, when you don't have it fired un. MK. JESSE REECE: It's runmng on a pilot light and I showed that to you when you were there. [ shut down the other one and that is tl~e one noise that goes all the time. You know, I do what I can to make it ss quiet as I possibly can. I don't think you can hear it 200 feet away outside the building. MR. : What about 50 feet, where I live. MR. JESSE REECE: Your house if further than 50 feet. CHAIRMAN: That's why I asked the question about --~ Are you going to insulate the building. Is there going to be some sort of noise prevention procedure. Now, let me just give you a. little example, ok. We discussed the issue here on Robin's Island and the noise that was emanating from the shoots that they have over there, ok. The people weighed that difference ok, one man, one owner as opposed to some of the things that occur that disturbs people, ail right, and that's the gurming situation. Over here, ok, we have a situation. You possibly could create, if the board was so inclined to grant this application, and get three votes on this board. A building that virtually would make no noise at all. How could you create that? By keeping the doors closed and by insulating the building,, ok. My question to you is? Is there an avenue or a way to do that~ either through air conditionin~ or proper ventilating, that doesn't make a lot of noise. Mt{.. JESSE REECE: I don't think it would make any more noise than an air coaditioner. CI[AIRMAN: Is there some process that you could use that would keet) this noise down to a specific minimum? MR. ,JESSE REECE: I suppose I could insulate the building more. I just think the way it will be faced --. Now it's facing directly out the doer. CIIAIRMAN: Right. Page 42 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. JESSE REECE: My plax~ is to have it facing not out the door, towards another wall. CHAIRMAN: A wall, right. MR. JESSE REECE: I just think it will be muted and I don~t think anyone would hear it from their homes. CHAIRMAN: OK~ that's the question. Just so you're aware I'm in no way of trying to compare this to any other operation. I~m just telling you the ways that we compare things. DEB WINSOR: tn the spirit of comparison, ! think that we have certainly have been presented with an incomplete application, if he has plans we'ci Hke to see them. I like to see what constitutes soundproof, i'd like to see a decibel rating report. I'd like to see what constitutes fireproof, with respect to public safety. CHAIRMAN: Yes. DEB WINSOR: If this is not a manufacturing operation. If it's in fact a kiln where he's melting glass in a residential neighborhood. We have every right to ask "How are you going to fireproof this wood frame structure. How are you going to sound proof it? What g',mrantees are we going to have about the emissions.You would ask this of any small commercial operation and i wonder, i just have to ask, why are you asking this of him? CHAIRMAN: I just asked the question? DEB WINSOR: I would like something a little more empirical then, I'll do what I can. CHAIRMAN: OK. DEB WiNSOR: I would If~e to see a code compliance set of architectural renderings with a proposal. MEMBER DINIZIO: Could I respond Jerry? CtlAIRMAN: Sure. MEMBER DINIZIO: I would assume that Mr. Reece is going to have to comply with every code that Southold Town has.. concerning an occupation of a building. Fm going to have to consider that, that's going to happen. As far a noise is concerned, as far as manu- faeturiug or whatever that is, that happens to he going on in that baflding. Our Building Inspector is going to make him comply to anything that anybody else would have to comply with, ok. That includes fire codes, that includes anything else that would have to be done. The floors, cement. Whatever has to be done. Page 43 - Transcmpt of Hearings R. egular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Soutbold Town Board of Appeals MS. JEN GOULD: There is no CO for the building now. So in order for him to get a CO, he must comply with every code of this Town. MEMBER DINIZIO: Right. My comment on this whole situation. It pretty much rnns parallel to Robin's Island in that it's a concept of what we're looking at here. We looking at a five acre piece of land. I am. my personal -- [ am looking at a five acre piece of land and I'm saying, "What could go on, on that five acre piece of land". I five in Greenport. You may say that's a metropolitan area in Southold Town, and I drove down to a piece of lot land today, ok. Basically drove into another world. It's a step back in time and these barns that --. One little corner there is unique to itself. There is no other place like that. I'd like re see that remain a,~ that is. Even those building being so close to the road, it has a certain uniqueness re it. And I would tike to see someone who would be able ~o afford upkeep. To keep that, ~o some kind of a standard ok. [ know we'd have to paint the outside. You have to preserve the wood, but you know. That little niche right there--. Even with Mr. Berke's barn. [ mean it's ugly, let's face it. But it's par~ of that whole character down there, that I feel we should be encouraging anybody who would like to purchase property down there. Five acres, pay the taxes. The amount of taxes has go[ to be unbearable, but give them every opportunity ~o do so. In that spirit certainly, had this gentlemen built this house large euougb--. But he can still build that house large enough to put that studio in without exceeding the 50, 25 % rule, and no one would know tile difference, and he would be able to do it. it's like making bird houses and selling ~o craft fairs. Anything else that--. This women wants to do a wood shop. You know, the Zoning Board could act as a valve for those things. Slow them down, lets take a ~ook at them, and lets see how that concepts fits area, and I think it fits pretty well. I thia~k yes, it's close to the road, but lets weight both the negative and the positive. You could build a huge house. You could have a horse farm. You could raise beagles. I don't' know. He could do a million things. But the guy wants ~o make--. What [ think, jus~ being in this room looking at that, I think it's art. i don't see anything else, and what Scott had said about the law. I can remember discussing a~ nauseam. What does a person that, who runs a computer h~ their house, and does graphic art on computer, and prints it out on s~gns that you put on trucks. You know, is that au artist? We discussed that re some extent and we decided that we cannot put our finger on --. We can't say who an artist is. You can't say that. Even artists can't say who an artist is. So, l think we have to look at it in that respect. Not so much as being a manufacturing action type of business, because ii certainly is in my mind, that's a concept that shouldn't even be relevant here. Perhaps we shouldn't even be considering it under the home occupation law. We should be looking at it in some other way. Page 44 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Well, I can tell you. I stood on the man's front porch today. I couldn't hear myself think w/th the wind blowing. Those are things that sometimes you have to put up with. I think you have some positives~ you have some negatives. I'm sure Berke~s property has to give some noise. The things he has down there. Mr. Schriever, he has a nice little place down there with all these lndldozers and things that run. Things do change, but I'd like to see them change in a relative sort of way-, with a beautiful five acre land that hasn't changed much, and perhaps a nice family that could make a living, make a go of it, pay some taxes. That's all I have to say. thank you. CHAIRMAN: OK. Ms. Tortora has one question. MEMBER TORTORA: There was one point that wasn't covered here. Someone .ired mentioned whether water was used. The emission might be toxic or leak into the ground water~ and during our meeting on Saturday, one of the questions that I asked Mr. Reece was. Do you use water, but I would rather him explain that if he would, as part of the process. CHAIRMAN: To what extent do you use water? MR. JESSE REECE: I use some water to coo! the glass ( ) that work it, wet newspaper, in the finishing process, we use some water if the glass gets too hot. But nothing, you know, wood salable that we use. CHAIRMAN: OK, great. This is what I propose to the board, i propose to close the hearing tonight for verbatim. I'll ask Ms. Gould to go to the Inspector, and see what requirements are going to be required of Mr. Reeee in the overall retrofitting, I use this word, of this barn for the purposes of his operation. He will then report this back to this lady. I forgot your name again. DEB WiNSOR: Deb Winsor. CHAIRMAN: Yes, and she will again I assume, circulated it amongst t~e people that have a specific concern. They then can write letters back to us, concerning what you have gotten, all right and -we wdil close the hearing. There is no more verbatim, no more testimony- as of tonight, ok. We will close the hearing at the next regular scheduled hearing. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKi: before April 30. So everything has to be received MEMBER TORTORA: Jerry, why don't you ( ) CHAIRMAN: Right, because there is a time period and we only have three weeks, ok. So therefore, I'd like her to circulate it to this lady, and let her circulate if she so chooses. We will have it at the same time. That will speed up some of the slowness and the whole thing~ and that's basically it. Yes [VIr. Harris. Psge 45 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. SCOTT HARRIS: Mr. Goehringer, if I may sum very briefly. In referenee re the building itself, the Halleck Farm. Those neighbors who have buildings, who have bought those properties. They should be commended for buying those properties. Many- of them happen to be five acre properties that later, were divided up. Many that I've seen in my lifetime, living in Orient, the demise of many, many, many, Historic buildings on Halleck properzy. For a gentlemen like Mr. Reece or this gentlemen here who said. He'd like to make some lamps and other who have those barns. Mr. Rieger, who happened ~o use some of those barns for art work. It's wonderful that people have decided to try m preserve those Historic buildings, rather than just zear them down and say, "it costs me more to fix these up and bring them back into condition". It's much easier to just raise, rather then start brand new. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Hearing no further questions, I thank everybody's courtesy. I understand it's an issue that concerns everybody, and I offer that as a Resolution Ladies and Gentlemen to verbatim testimony. We will leave the record until the regular scheduled meeting which I think is May 1. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Only the written record. CtIAIRMAN: Only the written record remain open till April 30. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: April 30. CttAIRMAN: You tnay send any' concerns that you have. We will continue the reviews of each one of these letters, that we receive tou/ght, and any other letters that we receive until April 30, ok. MEMBER DINIZIO: Will the time clock just continue to run. CHAIRMAN: No. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: No. CHAIRMAN: Time clock is frozen as of tonight. MEMBER DINIZIO: i have a little bit of a problem, carrying on tiffs conversation and how long this is going to take. The gentlemen is in contract for this house. Just the fact that this women wants to see what standards he's going to be held to. When she can go down to the Building Department and request that at any time. CIIA[RMAN: She's not a contract vendee. MEMBER DINIZIO: No, but the codes are the codes, and they are public. CIIAiRMAN: Yes, but it's generic to Iffs particular piece of property, based upon what he's required to get. Page 46 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting' - April 3, 1996 Southoid Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: No it's not. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: There is also a misunderstanding. It's really not up to the Building inspector to decide what's required. It's up to the owner to contact someone who is an expert in that field, so that they- could check the codes, and advise the Town what they are going to be building to meet the code. it has to be certified. CHAIRMAN: If he so chooses to do that, that's not a problem. I don't care. That's why i gave him 30 days. MEMBER DINIZIO: But in any ease if it doesn't go any further than the Building Inspector. If the Building Inspector doesn't approve it, it doesn't go any further. So SECRL~IARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's right. DEB WINSOR: But Mr. Dinizio, you yourself were so impressed by the Robins Island drawings. Those are the things that i obtained for you, MEMBER DiNIZIO: No, no they were not. You have no idea what was [here. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: No, you don't know. You weren't involved with the whole precess. I don't even remember you. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: She wasn't involved with the process. DEB WINSOR: That presentation was, what made it clear to all of us in our mind. That there was a reasonable intent. CHAIR. MAN: What ~nade it clear to us is, that Mr. Bacon was a person that would go in and construct a facility the way he wants to construct it as a family compound. We had never seen that before. DEB WINSOR: (Inaudible) CIIAIRMAN: You're absolutely correct. The icing on the cake was dry, wings, and he's going to be held to those drawings because we're going ~o look at every one of those buildings upon completion. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: He offered those. It was not required. MEMBER DINIZIO: By the way, I opposed that. If you must know. I opposedthe inspection of Robins Island every year, but t would not vote agaiust it. MEMBER TObUFORA: This is irrelevent. Page ~7 - Transcript of Hearings Reg. lar Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It is irreverent. It has no cemparison, Jerry. CHAIRMAN: I disagree with you because --. MEMBER TORTORA: I second the motion. I'd like To just bring it ro CIIAIRMAN: OK, I just want to say. I don't care if you go to the Buiidhig Inspector or to a noted authority, ok. On the reconstruction or the retrofitting of barns for your particular operation. Whatever you geT, is what you're going to tell us that you' re going to do with tlzis barn. You (addressing Jen Gould) will circulate it over to this lady over here because she has a concern, and you will circulate it to us, of which we'll make it part of the record. If we don't receive it by April 30, we'll going To make a decision 'anyway, all right. We thank you very much. CHAIRMAN: Ail in favor? information on vote). (See Resolution in /Minutes for further Page 48 - Transcript of Hearings R.e~ular Meeting - April 3, ]996 Southo[d Town Board of Appeals i0:15 p.m. Appl. No. 4371 - JOSEPH KANE. This is an application for a variance due to insufficient total side yards based upon the Building inspector's March 12, 1996 Notice of Disapproval issued under Article XX1V, Section 100-244 in an application for a building permit to construct a single-family dwelling. Property Location: 3100 Sound Drive, Greenport, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-33-l-8. By Patricia Moore, Esq. CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a survey indicating a proposed dwellin~ fifty five feet from the lip of the bluff, 18 feet from one side yard and 10 feet from the other. ! have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. We're ready. PATRiCIA MOORE, ESQ. I'll try to be as brief as possible consider- ;~ng the late hour. The reason we're here tonight is that the Kanes were going through the process. They had an application to the Health Department and ali their permits in place~ and when they finally got the Health Department stamped survey, they went to the Building Department and they were told that in December the law, ti~e setbacks had suddenly increased during the merger law. During the local law #23 that was adopted in December, had overnight changed their side yard setbacks from what had been there since 1965, for ail the properties in the area. In this subdivision it went from 25 feet up to 35 feet. They now have their architech's design. They had their Health Department stamped survey-. They had everything in place, including the construction crew that were scheduled to start. They were surprised by- this change in the taw that resulted in now having their setbacks increase to 35 feet. While everyone in the neighborhood, in the subdivisio~ which is Eastern Shore Section 4, that was ori~odnally developed in 1965 with 25 foot setbacks up through December 1995, had 25 feet. CHAIRMAN: How did that trigger that, Pat? MS. PATRICIA MOORE: What happened is --. When the merger law was adopted, they took out all these exempt subdivisions, and with the stroke of the pen, the lan~c~uage in that provision whieh said that "Those older subdivisions that were created back from !950s on throughout, that are file maps. These subdivisions have to meet the standards that have just been recentlY iegdslated into the code." So ali the Grandfather provisions went out, but so did the setbacks that were created. The only thing that I see in the code, which think they inadverte~xtly They tried to correct it in some respects, but didn't do ~ full job is in Section !00-251B. It's schedule identified double A (Schedule AA). That shows Lot size~ lot width and lot depth. But they failed to g~ive side yard setbaeks. That provision there is what I think was intended to give the relief for all of these subdivisions, inehiding the one my client in the Eastern Shores Subdivision. They've been pu~ in a terrible position. They have a Page 49 - Transcript of Hearings Regulap Meeting - April 3, 1996 Soutimld Town Board of ApPeals hardship situation here. They were ready .( sorry for them, that they got stuck with this. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Pat you said fi51B. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: I have 251B, schedule AA. has scheduled --. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I have fiS1B. I have the book opened to that. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: I'll pull it out. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I'm talking about Town Board Findings of Facts - That can't be right. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: It's right after that. See where it ends B. I labeled it B because, it has a double A right after that. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: No, that's not the right number. MS. PATRiCIA MOORE: I'm not giving you the right section? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Let's compare. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: My pages are numbered, 10146. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: doable A there. CHAIRMAN: Lydia may have it. of your book. ). I feel truly What we have the -. You see what it MEMBER TORTORA: I did because it didn't make any sense there. I put it back with the merger laws. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: It's in the Legislature 12/25/95. It was part of the merger law, and I confirm that in the public record. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: But it's also the same schedule that's under 244. CHAIRMAN: Thank you Lydia for leaving it out of your book. MEMBER TORTORA: It didn't make any sense there. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: It doesn't make any sense. MEMBER TORTORA: i put it back with the merger law, sorry. MS. PAT~iCIA MOORE: We follow the guidelines --. That's what I have and there is no Thank you Lydia for leaving it out Page 50 - Transcript of Hearings Regnlar Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, but when you go, Pat, there is a schedule for nonconforming lots, and under 244 it gives a side yard, ok. So you can't say there is no side yard provisions. There are side yard provisions. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: But it's inconsistent. Isn't it inconsistent, to me, to have that section that according to, when we set the code provisions. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That other one is supposed to be out. That's not supposed to be in there. I don~t know how that got in your book, but it's not supposed to be in there. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: No, i would correct you that is supposed to be itl there, i have from the Town Clerks copy of what was published. SECRETARY LiNDA KOWALSKI: Yes. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: And that does have to be in there. CHAIRMAN: So it must have been left out. SECRETARY L!NDA KOWALSKI: Somewhere along the line there must have been a typo. But 944 would apply for side yards. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: I'm not denying that's not the case. I'm just - what they were trying to do when they were legislating, is to try to ( ) for non conforming lots, but they kind of stopped halfway. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, but they never intended the side yards to remain at ~5. They intended to eliminate that and make them $5. I wss involved with that. ! can verify that as part of that committee, that -was involved with it. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: Ali right. SECRETARY LiNDA KOWALSKI: OK, thanks. CHAIRMAN: So as of the merger. SECR. ETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: As of December 26, !995. MS. PARTRCIA MOORE: Right. CHAIRMAN: Ok PATRIC[A MOORE: So what we have today is a variance request of two feet on the West side. They have 18. They need 20 and 25 feet on the east side. They have ten and they need 15. This lot is i00 feet wide and appro×imate[y 300 long. Of the 16 lots in Eastern Shores section 4, three lots remain vacant. Mr. Kane, Mr. Palumbo who was here l. onight, and who you'll see, next time we meet, has Page 5.l - Transcril:r of Hearings [regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals the exact same situation because he too was ready ro start building. He pointed out to me very clearly, he called me one day and he said, "You know, not granting a variance in this case would create a nonconformity". All the properties in this area have the benefit of a 25 foot setbacks, aggregate setback. MEMBER VILLA: How would you cream a nonconforming. PATRICIA MOORE: Mrs. Kinv--. I'm sorry, 25 total side yard setback. I know SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: We didn't understand. would create a nonconformity. You said it MS. PATRICIA MOORE: Yes, you are creating a nonconformity by -- or changing the character of the neighborhood by increasing --. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's different. You said nonconformity. MS. PATR[CIA MOORE: I'm sorry, inereasing the --. It's been a long lfight. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: That's ok. PATRICIA MOORE: My bedtime is 10 O'clock. We're increasing the side setbacks, and now we're changing the character of the neighborhood in requiring these larger side yard setbacks. On a waterfront piece of property, and the best thing of this property is the view. And from what you can see, the house the Kane's have chosen, is not a large house. It's a very reasonable modest size house for this neighborhood. It's a magnificent neighborhood with beautiful homes on it. I know Mrs. Kane would like to speak to you tonight. If you have any questions of us we be happy to address it. CHAIRMAN: We're ready Mrs~ Kane MRS. KANE. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: We must apologize for not putting you before the prior hesring. MRS. KANE: I can live with it. It was an experience. Thank you very much for hearing us tmzight~ I just want to say that, we have been Summer residence for over ten )-ears. We've been renting with my family for over ten years. A dream of our has been to own our own home, build our own home, and retire out here. Wetre moving toward that goal. We got the land last Summer, and what we did, we thought we were doing everything right. We immediately went to Van Tuyl to ~et the survey to make sure we knew what we were dealing with. We got aa updated survey. We had kim stake out our land, so we had stakes on our propertlr. We then hired a local architect who's familiar with all the codes here. We then interviewed builders Page 52 - Transcript of tlearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals who were all local, and we showed them the house and everybody was of lhe agreement that we were doing the right thing. When we then came back from the Building Department, and foand oat this had all changed. I said to my husband, "but we're still ok. Our property is 100 feet North, and 100 feet South, widtbwise. Our house if 65 feet. We've got 35 feet right, we're fine. We're still ok. For some reason we lost seven feet in the middle, and for the life of us we can't figure out why. Because if you see it, it goes straight down, and how did we lose those seven feet, when we have 100 up here and 100 down there, and 65 feet. One hundred from sixty five is 35. MEMBER VILLA: You're saying your house is only 65 feet wide. MRS. KANE: Yes, 64. MEMBER VILLA: Well there is something wrong someplace, because your lot is supposed to be 100 feet wide. MRS. KANE: This is what I'd like to tell you. CIIAIRMAN: It's because --. MEMBER VILLA: It's on an angle. CHAIRMAN: It comes out on an angle like this, and this is unique because. If you lived in Mattituck, and you were building in Mattituck on Peconic Bay Boulevard, most of the lots that are 85 feet, are only 70 feet on the water. They only have 70 feet because of this angle. MRS. KANE: Yes, this says 100 on the water and 100 on Sound Drive. Well we figured, this is fine. I mean, we desperately want to build this house. We had a crew hired two weeks ago. We thought we were ready to go. We now have delayed that. We iueurred alot of expense with the architect with designing this home lo fit the confines of our lot. We desperately want to build this, and we would love yon to approve it for us. CIIAIRMAN: Ok, ~o speak in favor. thank you. Is there anybody else that would like Sir, how are you tonight. Thank you for your MR. FRANK PALUMBO: I'm Frank Palumbo. I'm their neighbor. I have the property just West of them. There are 13 homes already built on that property. There are 16 lots. No, these remaining two. There's one, that doesn't seem to be, going to be built. There is just two of them. The Kane's and myself. Now, yea're asking us to change the character of the neighborhood because everyoue has, a side lot yard of 25 feet or less. It has to have been 25 feet or less, and now you're asking us to make 35 feet. So Page 53 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals actually what we're doing, we're changing the character of the neighborhood, and I don't think we should be doing that. I think we should maintain the character of the ueighhophood, and grant them and us this variance, so we can build after so many years of planning, and designs and architects, and lawyers. Believe me, he's only asking for seven feet. It's not that lie's askiog fop 20 feet or what. Seven feet and I think it should be granted. Thank you. Ct[AIRMAN: Sir, would you like to speak. MR. MARK NARENWRIGItT: Just for one moment. I'm Mark Narenwright and i'm tile neighbor to the East, and I spoke before the board in favor of Dr. Palumbo at the time for the setback. MRS. MARK NARENWRIGtIT: That's from the water. MR. MARK NARENWRIGHT: From the water. We just got in, less limn an hour ago from Florida. MRS. MARK NARENWltlGIIT: The thing is. I really don't know what it is. We just got here two minutes ago. I'm asking for you to extend it, so I can find out what's happening since we are totally adjacent, and since they are asking for the variance primarily on the left, on the side next to me. They're really only asking for two feet, from tile other side. So I really don't know -. CIIAI RMAN: them. Are you on the East side of them or the West side of SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: East. MEMBER VILLA: They are on the East. CtlAIRMAN: OK. MRS. MARK NARENWRIGHT: So they really are asking for the primary w~riance (itl my side. But, I'm not saying anything one way ov lhe other. As far as changing the character of the neighborhood, it's jusl like Pat's said "You only add 25 feet" Well, I only needed lo build 25 feet. I'm a lot further from my lot line, and I have a feeling that most of the people on the water are more than the 25 feet from their lot lines. They didn't need to be. So, I'm asking you as a board to de]ay this, until I can look into this. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Pat, is the house staked out? MS. PATRICIA MOORE: I'm sorry. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Is the house staked out? MS. PATRICIA MOORE: The house is not staked out but the land -- Page 54 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 $ou thold Town Board of Appeals MRS. KANE: The property is staked MS. PATRICIA MOORE: The proper~y is staked out, no~ the corners of the house. MR. KANE: And we went and measured and it was 100 and 100. That's why we can't understand, why we lost those seven feet in the middle. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Yes Doctor? DR. PALUMBO: They have a right to build that home, they were eatitled to have 25 foot setback. Now they are telling us, they don't want us to have the same privilege that they had. CHAIRMAN: They just want to have a change to take a look and see what teu feet was. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: I've offered to sit down with them, and explain what we have and show them the diagram and so on. The problem we have is, obviously they had --. Their contractors were ready a month ago and they were surprised by the need for this variance, it's a substantial variance. MRS. MARK NARENWRIGHT: It isn't substantial on their side, but it is substantial to us. MR. MARK NARENWRIGHT: We should have the right to look into it. MRS. MARK NARENWRIGHT: We asked for different variance on the water. We had absolutely spoke for it. We said, they could go close to the water. We certainly don't want to stop anybody from anything. MR. MARK NARENWRIGHT: I was the only one that spoke for Dr. Pa Jumbo at that meeting, and Mr. Bruer thanked me, and Mr. Nickels thanked me, and Dr. Palumbo called me and thanked me. I'spoke that evening --. CHAIRMAN: Can I just ask a question. Is there anything that you ean take care of with these people tonight? MR. MARK NARENWRIGHT: We just got back. MRS. MARK NARENWRIGHT: We literally got home five minutes ago. My cap is out front with the kayak on the roof and packed. I left the dog in the house to come here. I'm asking you just to delay it. I have to look into SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: ! was just wondering --. Page 55 - Transcrfpt of Hearings Regn!ar Meeting - Aprfl 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals MRS. KANE: I just want to say one thing. The Narenwright's have this towering retaining wall, that's up, nine feet high. That goes the entire length, and we will never even see that. We have a little 2300 square foot house MRS. MARK NARENWRIGHT: I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I'm saying --~ (inaudible) ( Everybody is talking at once). MEMBER TORTORA: Please address the board. MEMBER VILLA: Can i question the applicants here. MRS. KANE: Sure MEMBER .VILLA: There is a stakeout on the road, next to the house to the East. Is that the corner of the property? MRS. KANE: The stakeout on the East. MEMBER VILLA: Yes, it's in the middle of their landscaping. MRS. KANE: They have come over, which I wasn't going to bring up and I thank you for bringing it up. But that's another issue that --. If they let us do us, we wontt say they have to move their driveway, and take down the landscaping. MR. MARK NARENWRIGHT: Over the years it seems -~. Over the years a tree grows, and we certainly want to be good neighbors. We lust got back and we're looking ---. SECRETARY L~NDA KOWALSKI: think you have to recess it. Jerry, I think they need time. MEMBER DINIZIO: No, no. PATRICIA MOORE, ESQ: Maybe we could close the hearing tonight atxd just leave open for whatever comments you might have, and hopefully you could decide tlmis. CtfAIRMAN: We have another issue here. But go ahead, Dr. Palumbo. Just hold on one second. DR. PALUMBO: Well, if this law hadn't come into effect, the Narenwrights wouldn't even ired questioned it. MEMBER TORTOR. A: But it did. DR. PALUMBO: Do you know what i'm trying to say. They wouldn't have questioned it, because the 25 foot aggregate would have been in place. Now, what they are getting. They're getting more than we had, with a 25 foot. MRS. MARK NAR. ENWRIGHT: No we're not. Page 56 - Transcript of ttearings ~egular Meeting - April g, 1996 8ontho[d Town Board of Appeals DR. PALUMBO: Yes we are. MRS. MARK NARENWRIGHT: It's ten foot minimum on one side. MR. MARK NARENWRIGHT: thanked me. Frank, you called me throe times and DR. PALUMBO: Yes, sure MR. MARK NARENWRIGHT: And I was very glad that the Kanes were going to be there. We just got home and this is from an ( ) to make it difficult for anybody. We never have. We've been in this house for over 20 years. DR. PALUMBO: But if the law didn't change, you wouldn't be aware of it- " ( Inaudible ) CHAIRMAN: This is going to be an impossible thing zo take down here. So, lets deal with it on this basis, This is some soul searching with the board. We are conceivably not going ~o get anything more dono tonight. Maybe we'll address these people's garage, maybe ok, because they have been so patience sitting here. When do you want to reconvene to address ali the issues that we had before us tonight, Read all the letters, talk about the other applications that were before us. MEMBER DINIZIO: How about, right after this, we vote on this ~arage. CHAIRMAN: That's no~ giving these people time. MEMBER TORTORA: tonight. I'm not going To make a decision at II o'clock CHAIRMAN: When are you going to ~-. You're going away nex~ --. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It has zo be ~wo weeks. That's the earliest we can do it. MEMBER DOYEN: We used ~o make decisions at 2 o'clock. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: There ]s nothing I can offer betzer than that. MEMBER VILLA: Can we have i~ on the record that basically, this house will not exceed 64 feet in width. MRS. KANE: The width of the house will not exceed 64 feet. Whatever their plans are and also the plans of the house. They are not changing. ( ) it 64 no~ 64 and 3 inches. What_ever that Page 57 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals is, that's it. Sixty four or my husband said it might be under 64. That's it; that's the house. MEMBER VILLA: Now how did you ever measure across that tot. I mean, you'd have to be Tarzan to swing through the trees because you can't walk it. MRS. KANE: We had a friend who had one of those, that you a.~tached it, and you go right across. We were able to do that. MEMBER VILLA: And you only read 92 feet. MRS. KANE: No, no, no. That was the Building Department. We never -went the middle. We did 100 up the top and 100 at the back, CHAIRMAN: So you assumed it was 100 in the middle. MRS. KANE: Yes, we assumed it was I00, but the Building Departmenl must have done it because they said it's not, and I don't understand how that can be. We haven't staked the middle yet. We don't bare the middle stakes in yet. MEMBER VILLA: They would have to be 15 short. They would have to be a tremendous an~!e. I can't --. To do tlzis, there is a big angle, but not that much. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: What about a surveyor, Pat? Did you !~ave a surveyor? MS. PATRICIA MOORE: I have the survey. Did you -want m see it. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: For the new house? For the new design? MEMBER VILLA: It would have to be 92 feet. It would have zo be eight foot short. (Inaudible - Everybody is talking at once) PATRICIA MOORE: This is when the house was on an angle. Do you have the Van Tuyl survey. This is -when the house was on an angle. (inaudible Everybody is talking at once) CHAIRMAN: This isn't the survey. 'That's" the survey. MEMBER DOYEN: They measured across here, right. SECRETARY L!NDA KOWALSKi: But that's not the same, the house MS. PATRICIA MOORE: No it is, it's on an angle. Page 58 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: But you should have the surveyor put ~t on. and stake it, and then you'll really know. ( Inaudible everyone is talking az once. MRS. KANE: We went across there and we went across there, and we go our 100. MEMBER DOYEN: You wouldn't have 100 in the middle. MRS. KANE: We didn't realize that. We just figured 100, 100. (INAUDIBLE~ SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It's not the Building Department. It's the surveyor that's saying that. MEMBER DINIZIO: Who's saying that? SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: The architect MEMBER VILLA: You have to get another survey. There is no way that you're going to come down 99 feet. MEMBER TORTORA: Is it possible that it was measured including the neighbor's yard? PATRICIA MOORE: That doesn't make sense. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Could you get the surveyor to verify it? PATRICIA MOORE: Yes. You're going to need to give ( verify it, that you don't need a variance. ) to SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKi: We could eliminate this whole thing. You might not need the variance. You might get your extra frontage. MEMBER DOYEN: Let's wrap this up. Why, what's the matter. MEMBER VILLA: Keep 15 feet off that side. Keep t5 feet off that side[ Your house is 64, right. what, 79. tell you what. 15 and 64 is SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: (Addressing neighbors in audence: Yoo can come up and listen, too.) CHAIRMAN: Come on up here and Hsten. I haven't said a word. They're talking. SECRETARY LiNDA KOWALSKI: We're trying to get him to comply wilh the setbacks. Page 59 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meetin~ - April $~ 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals MS. PATRICIA MOORE: Hold on a minute. We might have a solution. If you grant this to us~ we have i8 and !0 equals 22. We need ?~ and what she is saying is she doesn't like The 10. We'll make it 18 on this side, and 10 on the other. We'll do that, that's ok. (INAUDIBLE) MEMBER VILLA: You eoutd take ten feet off that side. You're going to pick up more than --. You have !0 feet plus 80 plus 70. You're going to be more than --. MS. PATRIC!A MOORE: you grant this variance. get the exact survey. which is ~ao issue here. We'll do that. We will do it the other way if Like you said, we might not need, once we But if you can, we'll do it the other way CHAIRMAN: Is that all right with you? MS. PATRICIA MOORE: But we'll be going over. INAUDIBLE MS. PATRiCIA MOORE: It's 15 and 10. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Jerry that was 15 and 10. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: No, I need five on the other. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: I -was sa~-ing 18 and i0. MS. PATR!CIA MOORE: OK, 18 and I0. MEMBER D!N!ZIO: 15 on their side, and you can have whatever you want. Who gave 15 on their side, that's a lesser amount, and they can have whatever they want. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: It could be a five but it looks like an eight. MEMBER TORTORA: You still might have to get to a total of seven feet. You have to establish that in the variance. MEMBER D[N!ZIO: No, we don't. We don't know what it's going to be. We don't know what. the exact survey is. Inauclible DR.. PALUMBO: We have the same problem. myself. We have exactly the same problem. sub~ract i~. He said no. In the middle -- ! couldn't understand it 100 by 100. Should I Page 60 - Transcript of ttearings Regular Meeting - April $, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals SECRETARY LiNDA KOWALSKI: Jerry, could you come over for a moment? You're still chairing this meeting, and the meeting is still open. I'm going to ask Pat to have it verified ~rith Van Tuyl, that seven is going to be enough. But -we don't have to recess this. We could close the hearing and maybe we could have a special meeting. Once you get that survey we could have that special meeting. MEMBER DINIZIO: Let's grant him the seven, because that's all they're asking for. How we'll grant it is. We'll give him 15 which is the lesser amount of the 40; You're going to be 15 on one and 20 on the other. So, we give them 15 when they are asking for t0. That will satisfy them because there entitled to that. Then, whatever comes out on the other side, is going to be less than the seven feet that they need. MS. PAT'RICIA MOORE: No, you have to grant the variance we're asking for. But we agreed to move the larger setback on --. MEMBER. DINIZIO: But you'll go no closer than 15 feet to the other( ). SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: side yards. No. Eighteen feet total, for total MEMBER DINtZIO: Give me a pen. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: -- to where it says total. MEMBER DINIZIO: Here's what they are asking, right. They are asking 10 right here and 18 here. I'm sa~ng, let's do this. Let's give then 15 here. That's the minimum allowed in the zone, ok. Whatever it shifts over to here, we give them within the 7 feet. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: But that leaves 13. MEMBER VILLA: There are two things we can keep. 15 on the East side and we limit the house to four feet or whatever. (inaudible) SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: The neighbors wanted 18 feet. MEMBER DINIZIO: They are going to get it. This is where they are. SECRETARY LINDA KOWAESKt: 18 not 15. MEMBER DINIZIO: They are not entitled to 18. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes they are. Now, wait a minute. Sorry Jim, you're wrong. Total side yards are 35. MEMBER. DINIZIO: Right. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Any numbers. Page 61 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER D]NIZIO: Right, listen. Why can't this side be a lessor side. It could be 15 and 20. SECRETAt{~Y LINDA KOWALSKI: It can be, but --. MEMBER I)INIZIO: Then why not. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: Then you have no problem with 15. MRS. KANE: Because that's what it would have been anyway. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, they are entitled to that. MRS. KANE: I'm not giving you an argument. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Pat, do you want to mention your application and make yoar request, so that we can act on an amend~nent. Your amendment is just to reverse it 18 and 10. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: Oh yes, fine. SECRETARY LINI)A KOWALSKI: OK. MEMBER DINIZIO: Couldn't we just grant alternate relief. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: Or as a total, a total variance, out of the lwo numbers. CHAIRMAN: Your only concern is that you get the bigger side yard on your side. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: Well you can specify, and just switch the Easterly for a Westerly side. MEMBER VILLA: Why don't we say 15 foot off the ---. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: Say the Westerly side, instead of the Easterly side. Change from Westerly to Easterly. MEMBER VILLA: And whatever we end up on the other side, we end up witb. CHAIRMAN: Well, you have to deal with these people. These people are tile concerned --. MEMBER DINIZIO: They are happy with that. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: They are happy now. MEMBER, DINIZIO: They are not entitled to any more than that. CHAIRMAN: She'stalking 18 now. t'age 62 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER D1NIZ10: But they are not entitled to any more than that. MRS. ( ) : I'm not going to argue about three feet. MEMBER D1NIZIO: OK, so 15 feet is good. MRS. : I'm not going to argue about that. I'm just saying if they have that, then split it in half. MS. PATRICiA MOORE: Use it on your side. MRS. : Use it on my side. If it isnq, I'm not going to --. If it's extra, use it on my side. MEMBER VILLA: You can't push too much more, because if you look at that lot, ( ) you have a garage, and if you go too far to the lot, you cut off their driveway, and they won't be able to get into their garage. (Pause for a few minutes.) SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Let's finish the hearing. like we?re never going to get caught up on this. (Everybody is talking at once) CHAIRMAN: Let's all sit down here, and get this thing worked out. MRS. : We're approving his, because it took us four hours to drive ou! here. We have to go home now. It wi]] take three hours, bu! anyway. We're in the City, but it took us four hours to get here tonight. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: We have to dose the hearing and then we can have an informal chat, ok. Thank you. MRS. : Can we just get a notice of this or something. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Just a moment. CIIAIRMAN: We'll get back to you in one second. It's my undersianding is that, now we are dealing with 15 feet on the Easterly side, and the house is not to exceed more than than 64 feet. So whatever the difference is, will then be placed on the Westerly side. MRS. : Correct. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: For a total of 28 feet. MEMBER TORTORA: Not more than 28. I mean, a minimum of 28. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Yes, that's right. Pa~e 63 - Transerip~ o£ Hearings Regular Meeting - April 3, t996 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHAIRMAN: No closer than 28, and total side yards, but at least 15 on tile Easterly side. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Right. CIIAIRMAN: Right MEMBER VILLA: With the house noz to exceed 64 feet. CHAIRMAN: With the house not to exceed 64 feet, ok. Is there anybody else that wants to speak, ok. Hearing no further comment I'll make a morion closing the hearing and reserving decision. CHAIRMAN: And total side yards. But at least 15 on the Easterly side. SECRETARY LINOA KOWALSKI: Right. MEMBER VILLA: With the house ao~ to exceed 64 feet. CHAIRMAN: With the house ao~ to exceed 84 feet, ok. Is there anybody else thai wants to speak. [tearing no further eommen~ I make a motion to closing the hearing~ reserving decision. Then we'll make the decision. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Who would like to second that. CHAIRMAN: All in favor say Aye. Now, who wants to grant it. You want to grant it, Jim or Bob. MEMBER VILLA: I'll make the motion. CHAIRMAN: Just as I stated it, right. MEMBER VILLA: 15 feet on the East side. The house not to exceed 64 feet, and the remaining offset, wilI be whatever it is on the West side. CHAIRMAN: OK. MEMBER VILLA: it should be 18 or --. MEMBER TORTORA: For a total. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKi: Just say total 28 or whatever it is. CItAIRMAN: In any case, no closer than 28 feet total side yards. MEMBER VILLA: It would be an excess of 28 feet. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: No more, no closer, right. CHAIRMAN: Yes, i3 and 15. MS. PATRICIA MOORE: !3 and 15. Page U,I 'l't-anscrit)t of tlearings Regtdar Meeting - April 3, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Right. CIlAIRMAN: That's the way it will be stated itt the decision. SECRETARY LINDA KOWALSKI: Who will second the motion? CIIAIRMAN: I'1t second it. MEMBER VILLA: But my mmn (HtAIRMAN: Right and 55 feet from the ( ). SECRt~TARY LINDA KO~ALSKI: All in favor, aye. ISee R. aaolation in Minutes fo~ move d~tails o~ action.) End of hca~4ngs. Pr, epaPed by Nm-eon F~ey f~om tape ~eeo~dings. concern is, that the house stays 64 ECEIVED AND FILED BY T~.E SOUTHOLD TOWN ~ ~own Clerk, Town of Sou~ld