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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-02/07/1996 HEARING TRANSCRIPT OF PUBLIC HEARINGS REGULAR MEETING OF FEBRUARY 7, 1996 SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS Prepared by Noreen Frey 7:36 p.m. Appl. ~4356 MARTIN AND CHRISTINE KOSMYNKA. This is a request based upon the December 6, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, in which applicant was denied a building permit to construct an accessory garage building in the reqt~ired front yard at less than 35 feet at 1985 Pine Tree Road, Cutchogue; Parcel =1000-98-1-11.2. This parcel consists of a size under 20,000 sq- ft., and the principal front yard setback is shown under Article XXIV, Section 100-244B. (This is a carryover from 1 / 10/98 to consider alternative locations. ) Chairman: The first hearing on the agenda is on behalf of Martin and Christine Kosmynka. Mr. Kosmynka, how are you tonight? Mr. Martin Kosmynka: The board has asked me to go back and took to. see if [ can make this thing further off the street. Going back and measuring out again, I can make it work a~ 25 feet. Now moving my drywells. It will De right on the corner of it all, without removing any trees. Chairman: Do you have a plan for us? Mr. Martin I(osmynka: Again, not the scale. It shows it right on the corner of it. Chairman: I see, ok. Bu1 you've measured it and it is. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Yes. it's right az the corner. Chairman: Ok, all right. Is this the only copy you're going to give us? Mr. Martin Kosmynka: No. I have a couple of copies. Chairman: And we're 25 feet and what are we off the properly line? Mr. Martin [(osmynka: Well, I'm still holding the correct side yard. Chairman: Which is five. Page 2 Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7~ 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: No. Ten, right. No, I think it is five. Chairman: I don't have it on the index so that's why I asked the question. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: You have me confnsed. I have to look. it wasn't a requested to go there. Secretary: it's based on the size of the property. Yon have less than a half acre, right? Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Yes Secretary Linda Kosmynka: What does the original plan show? Chairman: It doesn't show. That's why I asked the question. Three foot side. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Three foot side. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: You had mentioned Tom LeViness and in speaking to Tom, is --. He had asked me to make sure that I put the garage on the side that I'm looking to put it on. Chairman: Yes Mr. Martin Kosmynka: The reason being that his lot size is closer to mine in size, so he said if you could put it on side because the other side has an anchor. Chairman: So he's on the southwest, southeast side. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: That's correct. Chairman: OK, all right. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I think his front footage is 83 on 5~. Chairman: OK Mr. Martin Kosmynka: And he also would have to put a garage in front. Chairman: I don't have --. I don't have any comment about it. Let's see, we'll start v~th Mr. Doyen. Mr. Doyen, do you have any comment. Member Doyen: No Chairman: Mrs. Tortora Member Tortora: No Page 3 - Transcript of Hearings. Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 So~thold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Mr. DirHzlo Member Dinizio: Well, if we're going To hold tkis over can we this. Can you stake it out for us? Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Yes, I had it staked out once. Member Dinizio: Yes, I know. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Obviously it got knocked down. Member Dinizio: It's supposed to rain tonight and tomorrow, so maybe the weekend. Mr. Martin Koskynka: Sure, ok Member Dinizio: OK, thanks. Chairman: Mr. Villa Member Villa: No, I've been by ~ couple of times but the place has been under snow. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Yes, and the plow came down and redid again. Member Villa: i'd like ~o see how it lays out to tell you the truth. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Ok Chairman: So we'll go over there and we'll do that. We'll take a Iook a~ it again. Do another field-visit and even if you can't put the stakes in the ground. Hopefully, you maybe you could put a couple of cement blocks with stakes in it. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I'll put it on rear and front. Is that what you want to say, or all four corners. Chairman: Well at least the front two corners. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: OK Member Villa: Is this going To be 24 by 24. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: If I have to shrink it, I'll shrink it, you know whatever. Member Dinizio: We~J, if you could put the four corners. That would be helpful To me, and I jus~ want ~o verify how high it's ~oing ~o be. Page 4 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Well it would be within codes. I'm net looking to --. You know, it's not a two story garage. Member Dinizio: OK Chairman: You said, it's going to be like one and one half story though, right? Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Yes~ I'd like to be able to have some space. I don't want to have a flat road. I have a 12, 12 pitch on my house now. I'd like to make it in the same type. Chairman: OK Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Architectural look that I've done already with my house. Member Dinizio: All right. I think we're talking --. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I have no intentions of building where there is going to be height to stand or anything like that. Member Dinizio: OK. Well I think were talking 15 feet, right Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Well I think code is somewhere around 15 feet. Secretary Linde Kowalski: Code is 18 feet for a mean height. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: For a garage. Chairman: Great Member Villa: And the drywell is visible on the snow. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Yes, you'll see it. In fact you will see it right on the corner of where the garage is, it's right there where the drywel] is. Membe? Villa: OK Chairman: Thank you very much. Anybody else like to speak in favor of the application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Yes Dr. Dr. CottreH: My name is Thomas Cettrell. I spoke the last time. This garage is going to cover essentially half the width of the property. It's going to be, ! heard last time, 18 feet high which is just short of how far it's going to be off the road. He's proposing to only move it six feet. It's 24 by 24. Six feet is not going to make it in the impression of this bulk of a garage is going to look like on Pine Tree Road. There:s no other structure, no where near the road like that, and I think if you want to conform the Town Law Page 5 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996~ Southold Town Board of Appeais of Southold, than put in where it belongs. He has alot of room in the front of his house. Chairman: OK. Thank you Dr. Anybody else like to speak against the application. OK, seeing no hands I make a motion to recess the hearing to the next regularly scheduled meeting based upon the request from Dr. Cottrell. Secretary Linda Kowaiski: Could we include a date of March 6. Chairman: Yes, including the date of March 6, 1996. Member Dinizio: Seconed. Chairman: Thank yot~ very much. You'll relate that to Mr. LeViness. Dr. Cottrell: I will. Page 8 ~ Transcript of Hearings Reg~dar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Sonthold Town Board of Appeals 7:44 p.m. Appl. #4358 ROBERT E. GREEN. This is an appeal based upon the November 21, 1995 Notice of Disapproval from the Building Inspector in which applicant applied for a building permit for the "existing deck" and was denied under Article lllA, Section 100-30A.3 of the Zoning Code due to insufficient side yard setback and insufficient total side yards at less than the required 35 feet. Subject premises contains a 38,900+- square feet in lot area located in the R-40 Low-Density Residential Zone. Location of Property-: 790 North Sea Drive, Southold, NY; Parcel ID #1000-54-5-t4. Chairman: I have a copy of a survey dated 1987 from Roderick Van TuyI pe indicating the replacement of the deek is on the front side of the house and approximately five feet from the Westerly property line. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. I have one letter, I have two letters in support. Let me just cheek, ok. That's what it appears. Who would like to be heard on this? Mrs. Moore, how are you tonight? Mrs. Moore: Fine thank you. First I have a confirmation opposing this. Do you need this right now. Chairman: Sure, we'll take it. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Sure Mrs. Moore: i included many fax in the application and just to elaborate on a few points. The Green house, Robert Green's house was originally built at an angle from what you can see from the plans. So right from the beginning the house was located at 13 feet from the property line, and created a non conforming structure. He was the owner of the property, and the adjacent parcel that is presently owned by Fischetti. That parcel was conveyed to Fischetti in 1991 so when tl}is deck was built, he was not encroaching on anyone other than himself. These were however separate properties, separate lots, and would create a problem obviously when he would choose to get a mortgage or to sell the property. The house if you saw from your inspection, is located 200 feet from the road. The adjacent property Fischetti, is located approximately 50 feet from the road. So we have a distanoe of 150 feet or more between the most effected property, and this application. Apparently when this, obviously a self imposed hardship, they- btdlt it without a permit. When they originally built most of the deck, they did ha?e a permit. They had a concrete patio underneath the portion that was built without a permit, and apparently he didn't realize that covering over the patio would require a building permit. Or a least a modification for the original permit. Mr. Green suffers from Multiple Sclerosis, MS, and that again required him to provide more access around his property. You can see from the property- off of North Sea Drive that, tha'~ whole area is Page 7 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals a beach area, sandy soil. It's really difficult To get around. In the best interest of the ecology of the area, it makes sense to build a deck because you limit the amount of human activity around your property, and that really is a lovely area. It's just like putting a house in the middle of the beach. That's the kind of surroundings you're facing. In order to get an idea of what it would cost to bring the property into conforming. I got a quote from Bob Kehl's Home Improvement, and very kindly he gave me an estimate of what it would be, the cost that would be entailed in removing the violated structure, and then somehow or another getting it. When you cut off the portion of the deck that would be in violation, putting some rails up, and then you still have the underlining concrete that you --. He didn't even give me a quote on repairing the concrete. So I have a quote of $4500.00 that is a significant amount of money if you were required to remove the deck that has been there for many years. We recog'nize that the variance is substantial because we need a setback of five feet, and the required is 15. Did I give that ouT, I did, right? Secretary Linda Kowalski: Yes. Mrs. Moore: So it is substantial in light of the Zoning Ordinance. However, also in light of the circumstances here, and the character of the community. The way this problem developed. We hope that you will grant the variance as requested, and I have a quote here for you which you could include in your records. Chairman: I'd just like to ask you some questions Mrs. Moore. Mrs. Moore: Sure Chairman: Is this house for sate? Mrs. Moore: Yes it is. Chairman: OK, because I was suggesting possibly a life estate situation on the deck based on the man's disability, but if he has ttlat, it's not going To work. Mrs. Moore: Yes Chafrmsn: OK. we'll start with Mr. Vi/ia this time. Member Villa: What you say, it's slready built. I don't know. have feelings about it. If it came in raw I'd would cerlainly not be ~oo considerate aboui ~t. Can we put a condition in, if they are ever going To work on this thing, that part should be taken down. Page 8 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mrs, Moore: Well I would think that if it deteriorates to the point that it has to be repaired, replaced, than I'm sure that. i'm sure this property is going to sell. Also keep in mind that that Morris' (?) application. If you recall that. I think it was two years ago. I was here on another property- owner that's house next door, the neighboring to that, had the very really identical situation, and you did grant a five foot setback. Again~ t want to remind you. He's not affecting anyone. I mean, the property is 158 feet from his neighbor. So, if you go and take a look at the surrounding area, he looks Hke he's out in nowhere. He really- is isolated. Member Villa; I've been there. I've been there. Mrs. Moore: Yes Chairman: We've all been there. Mrs. Moore: It's really is an insignificant impact. Chairman: Well, i was thinking more to the .effect that if there was any substantial construction such as, a roof or any type of enclosure placed around it. It would have to be brought into conformance. As a open deck --. Member Villa: One of the neighbors letters~ basically states that, you know, they don~t want to see anyt-hing happen and if there is anything done in the future, that they would like to see them comply-. Chairman: That's what I meant. Mrs. Moore: Keep in mind that Mr. Fischetti bought the house from Green the way' it was, with the condition, and with the setbacks, and with a survey that showed the ioeation of the deck of his neighbor, presumably. Member Villa: No, it wouldn't show that; It would only show encroachments. Mrs. Moore: That's true, however we could measure it out. Member Villa: It wouldn't show the ~eighboring lot unless there was an encroachment. That's my own thought. The deck is old and it probably needs some work anyway. I'd be happy to see if there is some kind of a c~ause in there, where it could be addressed in the Chairman: Yes, we can work on something. Jim. Member Dinizio: No, I have no questions. Chairman: Lydia. Page 9 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Member Tortora: On the survey that you subnfitted. What portion of the deck is without permit, 3500 applied for. Mrs. Moore: Looks like because the building permit. I took the picture from the building permit and it's very unclear. But ii seems To be, this area. No, this is with a permit. This area right here. Member Tortora: So it's from --. Mrs. Moore: So it's really from. Member Tortora: Because it's very deceiving from the survey. Chairman: It's from the concrete stoop. Mrs. Moore: I know t had the same problem. Chairman: It's from the concrete stoop. Mrs. Moore: Yes I knew. I had the same problem. Chairman: Pat, it's from the concrete stoop back. Isn't that Member Villa: The concrete s~oop forward. Chairman: Forward [ meant. Member Tortora: Whore is the North? Mrs. Moore: This area right here. Chairman: Yes Member Tortora: That connects To the variance, right. Mrs. Moore: Well no, only from here over would be the encroachment. Member Tortora: Because tlzis is 16 feet from the house from here [o here. Chairman: Actually, it's from the edge of the household. Member Tortora: According ~o the scale on this Map. Mrs. Moore: Oh, all right. I have measured it and (inaudible). Member Tortora: And that's the Map for (inaudible). Page 10 - Transcript of Hearings Re~alar Meeting ~ February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Please Note: Very noisy, cannot understand Mrs. Moore and Member Tortora for a few sentences Member Tortora: As far a tax. It would be from here to here. Chairman: It's realty from the edge of the household. Secretary Linda Kowalski: To the East you mean. To the edge of the house to the East. Chairman: Yes Mrs. Moore: But I beheved he had a permit for this portion here. Chairman: Right Secretary Linda Kowalski: But you don't need a variance for that. Mrs. Moore: How he got a building permit for it, because he did get a building permit. Chairman: Sure Secretary Linda Kowalski: Yes, but he did need a variance. He could if he asked for it, get a building permit but that's not the problem. It's the Easterly side that needs a variance. Which is, how wide there on the Easterly side. Is it five feet. Chairman: Five feet Secretary Linda Kowaiski: Five feet, that what I thought. Chairman: We'll attempt to put some terminology into a decision. Mrs. Moore: Thank you very much Chairman: OK Mr. Doyen, i assumed you didn't have any questions? Mr. Doyen: No Chairman: OK. Is there anyone else that would like to speak in favor of this application, Sir. How are you tonight. Mr. Fischetti: Fine. I'm Mr. Fischetti. I'm speaking in favor and not in favor. I have the adjacent piece of property-. I have no objection to ~r. Green keeping the deck as it is right now. However, if he does sell the property or it he does renovate, then I think there is plenty of room for the project to conform to reg~lations. There is enough to put decks on the other side, and my back yard is facing that area, and it would be close to my property. So, I don't object at this point. It would be a hardship Page 1] - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, t996 Southold Town Board of Appeals zo Tear it down right now, but if it was sold or renovated then I think it should conform to the regulations. That's all I llave zo say. Chairman: Very good. Anybody else like to speak in favor? Anybody like to speak against? Seeing no hands I'd like ~o make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. Member VFfla: Second. Chairman: All in favor. Page 12 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:58 p.m. Appl. ~4360 - PAT J. IAVARONE. This is a request, based upon the January 18, 1996 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, in which applicant was denied a building permit to construct a porch addition at less than the required minimum 15 ft. side yard, Artie!e XXIV, Section 100-244-B of the Zoning Code. Location of Property: 996 West Road, Cutehog-ue, NY; Parcel ID #1000-110-7-3~ This parcel consists of nonconforming lot area of $4,000+- sq.ft. Chairman: I have a copy of a survey dated January 5, 1996 indicating the approximate placement of the porch which was 12 ft. 4 in. to the property line~ and the nature of this application. have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Who would like to be heard? How are you tonight? Could you state your name for the record, Sir? Mr. Tot Torkelsen: My name is Tot Torketsen, Torkelsen Builders and I'm doing the construction for the applicant Iavarone and Ms. iavarone are here. What you see before you is. He bought the house last year and has renovated it. He's repaired the back porch and built a porch on the other side and the side that he~s putting it on, he Will be encroaching about two feet. Off of that comes his kitchen and ~his basic living area. So that was the side that he really needed, you know in order to have table on that side. So, he's requesting that two foot allowance to symmetry to keep the whole deck ~2 foot around and also, so that he can have a table and still access through. I don't --. Chairman: This is a raised deck of approximately how much off the ground ? Mr. Tot Torkelsen: Actually, it's --. In the front part it's maybe 6 inches above grade. It goes approximately 2 feet above grade in the rear. Chairman: And the rear is towards the water. Mr. Tot Torkelsen: Toward the water. Chairman: Right. Ok. Why don't you just stay there while we start with Mr. Doyen first. Mr. Doyen: No Chairman: Mrs. Tortora Member Tortora: What's the size of the porch, and is this going to be an enclosed porch? Mr. Tot Torkelsen: It has a roof over. It's ~2 feet out from the Page 13 - Trsl~script of Hearings [regular Meeting - February 7, t996 Southold Town Beard of Appeals Member Tortora: It's 12 feet out from the house. Mr. Tot Torkelsen: Yes Member Tortora: And the depth of it. Mr. Tot Torkelsen: The depth goes back about 50 feet roughly Member Villa: How much? Mr. Tot Torketsen: 50 feet roughly. Chairman: 50 feet. Tot Torketsen: Now there is an existing porch in the back which has been renovated, which is 12 feet ouz, which goes the whole length of the back, and the other side has a deck. Chairman: When you refer to the back, you're referring to the water? Mr. Tot Torkelsen: Towards the water. Chairman: Right Member Tortora: So it's 50 by 12. What's the height. Mr. Tot Torketsen: The heighi is eight feet off the deck with a pitch coming on. I do have a plan if you would like zo see the plan. Secretary- Linda Kowalski: We have a plan. Chairman: We have a plan. It's just that some of the --. Not everything is mentioned in it. Mr. Tot Torkelsen: OK Secretary Linda Kowatski: We borrowed it from the Building Department file Lydia. Chairman: Here's the actua] letter. We're going with Mr. Dinizio. Member Dinizio: No, I don't have any questions. Chairman: Mr. Villa Member Villa: Yes it says, proposed porch. But I heard you say it's coming off the kitchen and dining room. So you're saying it's ~o~ going.to be enclosed. Member Villa: It's going to have a roof over it but it's a covered porch and I think -- Page 14 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Member Villa: So it's only going to be used in the Summer time. Mr. Tot Torkelsen: It's only going to be used in the Summer time~ and the reason it's being covered is because it already has a covered porch in back. And from the looks of it.~ it blends into the character of the house. That's basically why. The thing wraps around and it's covered. Member Villa: So right now you're siding that side of the house but this is going to be attached onto that side? Mr. Tor Torkelsen: We're holdin~ off on the siding, depending on the outcome of this decision. So: people put the roof on and then the side above it, above the roof. Chairman: That's why you have that faeia plate across the bottom of the doors. That's where the deck would hook onto. Mr. Tot Torkelsen: The deck would hook onto there. In either case,, they would still have tl~at because they'd make that a one ( ) Chairman: OK. We thank you Sir. Is there anybody else that would like to speak in favor of this application? Hi, how are you Sir. Nice to meet you. Mr. Pat Iavarone: How do you do. My name is Pat Iavarone. i just want to submit a letter that I was passing to the draft regarding posting the property. Chairman: Good Mr. Pat Iavarone: And I also wanted to note that in my own dialogue with my neighbors on either side of me, neither of them have any problems. I assume that they have noted accordingly. Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Pat Iavarone: Thank you Chairman: I further state. Does anyone have any objection to this appiieation? Does anybody have any particular problems? Do you want to make a motion Jim, what. Member Dinlzio: I'll make a motion. That it remain open though. Chairman: See. I'm not putting words in your mouth. So it's going to be granted as applied for as long as it remain open. Secretary Linda KowaiskJ: What do you mean by open. Member Dinlzio: No windows, screens. Page 15 - Transcript of ~tearings Reg~dar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southotd Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Not a permanent part of the house. Member Dinizio: No heat, no -- Chairman: That it remain the same, with a one story structure that it intends to be. Is that right. Will you Incorporated that in it. Secretary Linda Kowalski: But the roof is ok if they --. Member Dinizio: As applied, I mean. Chairman: As applied. Member Dinizio: OK Secretary Linda Biowalski: OK Chairman: Who wants to seconed it. Member Villa: I'll seconded it. Chairman: Seconed by Mr. Villa. All in favor. 8:05 p.m. Appt. 4361 - Estate of Mary Anna Muir, Susan Park Utz. This is ~ request, based upon the January 24, 1996 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, in which applicant was denied ~ building permit to construct a single-family dwelling at less than the required rear yard setback of 35 feet, Article XXIV, Section 100-244B of the Zoning Code. This parcel consists of a nonconforming lot area of 12,318 sq. ft. and is located at 295 Youngs Road, Orient, NY; Parcel tD #1000-18-1-12. Chairman: I have a copy of a survey produced by Roderick Van Tuyl pc dated July 5, 1995, amended December 20, 1995 which indicates the approximate placement of the proposed house. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Who would like to be heard on this? How are you Mrs. Utz. Would you like to use the microphone, and we'll grill you for a little while, nor really. We didn't grill anybody yet tonight. Is there anything you would like to sra~e for the record. Mrs. Susan Park Utz: I'm attempting to build a small house on a piece o£ property I own on Youngs Road in Orient, next to another piece of property that I'm in the process of selling, and those people are living in the house at this point, renting from me. They will be the only neighbors that are effected by any change in the regulation there, of the footage on the rear yard because, the other three sides of my property have a road or a dirt road, or some kind of a road~ and that's considered front yards. So I have one rear yard and three front yard, and it's the rear yard that seems to have 21 feet instead of 35 feet which will be basically between my garage, Pag~ 16 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, !996 Southold Town Board of Appeais and the beginning of the other property !Lue. The neighbors, as I said, are my tenants at this point, don't care one bit if it's 21 feet or 35 feet. They said, the closer i am the better because I can help take care of their little kids. Chairman: That's good. OK, great. Wettl just see if any board members, Mr. Doyen. Melnber Doyen: No. Chairman: Mrs. Totters. Mrs. Totters: No Chairman: Mr. Dinizio Mr. Di'nizio: No, not at all. Chaimnan: Mr. Villa Member Villa: I just have a question. You're saying, from your garage and when I look at the survey, it shows 35 feet from your garage to the right of way. 35 feet from the house to the other right of way. 21 feet from the rear, what I guess is the rear of your house to the porch, not a garage. Mrs. Utz: Oh, the porch. I thought that was part of the garage and the porch. Member Villa: Well, the porch looks like it sticks out further than the garage. That where the 21 foot dimension is. Mr. Utz: Oh ok, that*s fine. It could be that the garage is up closer against on the rear side, and then the porch, that would be on the west side. Member Villa: So that is the 21 feet. Mrs. Utz: So; it would probably be 21 feet from that porch. Member Villa: The garage is 35 feet from the right. Mrs. Utz: That's good. Chairman: Is this going to be a raised pOrch or is it going to be a ground level porch? Secretary Linda Kowaiski: Are there steps going into it? Mrs. Utz: That's a good question. I'm trying to imagine from where my- porch is going to start. Whether it's going to be on the ground Page 17 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals or raised up, and what would be under it, if it wasn't on the ground. I guess it's on the ground. Mr. Gordon Price: That first floor of it starzs 16 inches above the ground. Mrs. Utz: Thank you. This is my architect. Member Villa: So the porch does stick out further than the garage. Mr. Gordon Price: It sticks oux three feet further than the garage itself. The garage is 24 feet from the tine, and the property line, to the other house I behove, the neighbors house is a good 50, 60 feet. Mrs. Utz: That's what t understand. Mr. Gordon Price: Right Chairman: So this is a wood porch. Mr. Gordon Price. Yes it is. It's a covered porch. It's part of the architecture of the slope in the woods. Chairman: OK Mr. Gordon Price: So, it's really part of the house itself. Chairman: And your name is what, Sir: Mr. Gordon Price: Gordon Price Chairman: OK, thank you. All right. Mrs. Tortora, no questions. Well, thank you so much. Is there anybody that would like To speak in favor of this application? Yes Ma'am. Before you speak, we are going to Try to find_ the custod~ian and Turn down the heat before our eyebrow's starx to curt. So, we -~will do that as quickly as we can find someone walking by. How are you tonight. Could you state your name for the record. Mary Anne Wilde: My name is Mary Ann Wilde, Sue Utz's neighbor. On the rear or the --. I'm not clear about whether it's the front yard or one of the front yard buz to the rear of the house, siting the right of way. I'm in support of the new building but I would like to inquire about any future provisions or covenants on the property since it is so close to my property, and what procedure about covenants or easements in the future. Chairman: Well, we certainly can grant that there be no further reductions. Of course, that will mean, Zhat they ~vill have to bring, she would have to bring or any subsequent owners would have ~o bring in an application for us for any further improvements, ok. Page 18 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7.~ 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals That is not necessarily a storage building. They might be abte to get a permit for a storage building depending upon how the Building Inspector interprets the front yard, rear yard aspect, all right. The board could limit the distance of the rear yard from the back of the garage on, which would then force her to limit the size of her deck area. That was what precipitated the question of. Is it a ground level deck or is it above the ground. Mary Anne Wilde: And what would the difference be if it was g~round level. Chairman: Three feet. Three feet. Oh, ff it was ground level. The garage would be set back and not the deek. It would be the closest amount. It would be a throe feot difference. Is that correct Mr. Price? Threo foot difference. You understand what I mean · Mary Anne Wilde: Yes Chairman: So that's basically that, you know. I don't have no idea how these board members --. We don't go out together. We haven't discussed it, and so that's really the purpose of deliberating after. We don't, not make decisions because we don't want to do them in public. Everybody's 'welcome to stay. We'll probably do them after the last hearing. It's just that we don't know how everybody feels about each particular application. Ail right. Mary Anne Wilde: Thank you. Chairman: Your welcome. Member Villa: Jerry~ one other questions. Did -we get in the record what the size of the house, the square footage? Chairman: What is the approximate size of the house, Mr. Price? Mr. Gordon Price: A little less than 1500 square feet. Chairman: Thank you, Sir. Is there anyone else that would like to speak in favor? Anybody like to speak against? OK~ seeing no hands I make a motion on closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. All in favor. Page 19 - T-~anscrip~ of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:il p.m. Appl. #4359 Edward E. Williams. This is an application based upon the December 27, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, wherein applicant has applied for a building permit to construct a single-family dwelling and was denied due to insufficient front yard setback from an abutting right-of-way/ property kine, Article XXIV, Section 100-244B. This parcel contains a total lot ares of 54,887 sq. ft. located in an R-80 Residential Zone District, au 16315 Main Road, East Marion; Parcel ~ I000-23-1-12.1. Chairman: i have a copy of a survey dated February 23, 1979 indicating the proposed house toeation and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding property in the area. Is there anybody that would like to be heard? Patricia Moore as Attorney: Assuming we're all talking about the same survey. This is the most recent amended survey that has a house about 35 feet from the property line. Chairman: Yes Mrs. Moore: OK, good. Thank you. ITm here to cause a little bit of trouble~ I'm sorry-. Chairman: 35 feet from the right of way. Mrs. Moore: From the right of way. (Secretary Linda Kowalski: It's in your update today. Weren't they in your box today?) Cimirman: Go ahead. Mrs. Patricia Moore: [ guess I'm going to start with a little bit of trouble because when we, Mr. Williams and I both looked at the code, we said what. This is not a corner lot, and what I suggested was, that we go talk to the Building Inspector and see where they' are coming up with this interpretation. Apparently it's been one of these things that have been done this way. But when you read the code. that's not what the code says. The code defines a corner lot as A lot at the junction of an abutting ~wo or more intersecting streets". Then you look at the code and what the code says, the s~ree{s are defined as, and it goes through an elaborate description of three different definitions of what a street is. None of whicti include a right of way-. The only time thai a right-of-way is defined is a right-of-way tine, and that's where it describes that the setbacks should be, from the edge of the right-of-way, and that makes sense because when you're building~ you want to have a setback from the right-of-way, so there is access and you're not interfering with the access. So, that makes sense. Making tkis a corner lot that require making this 60 feet from the right-of-way Page 20 - Transcript of Hearings Regmdar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals line, doesn't make sense. What you have is a property that has a glorified driveway through the properties in the back, and that's being considered a corner lot, as if it was a street or a corner with an intersection, with heavily traveled traffic. So that was I guess, the first thing we did was. I saw a interpretation because if you find that this is not a corner lot than Mr. Williams, Mr. & Mrs. Williams do not need a variance. They can meet all of the setback requirements for a lot from a right- of- way. If you don't agree with my analysis, ok and we request that a variance be granted. The house is situated right now, approximately in the center of the property. The Williams owns, bought this property 17 years ago and have been waiting patiently until they were ready, especially to retire and build there dream house on this piece. They, if they were to conform to the eorner lot definition and build a house on this pareeI, it would look like a long tube, with the end of the tube having the water front view, and the rest of the tube, having a view of their neighbors, and that's not what was intended for this piece of property. And really in conforming with the eharacter of the neighborhood, the houses in this area try to make uses of the beautiful view of Orient Harbor, not of their neighbors. So, we would ask in light of the character of the commu~ity. The feet that if this was not a corner lot, he wok~ld need no variances whatsoever. He's setback 35 feet to the right-of-way. Twenty feet from the other side. So that, there is clearly enough room for a nice reasonable size house. He initially had a dream house that was a little bit different and went back to the drawing beard and said. Well, all right. We'll inerease the setback from the right-of-way and reduce the size of the house and put the garage underneath in order to make an application with a minimal variance request. So, in light of all that, we would ask that you grant the variance for. Find an interpretation for the code that this is not a corner lot and therefore there is nothing necessary, and because they are waiting for the weather to break. They are anxious to start ri~,ht away. They would ask that you grant the variance as soon as possible. Also, have the drawings. Mr. & Mrs. Williams just got, hot off the press. I have drawings of the house if you would like to see it. Chairman: Thank you very much. Do you want those back. Mrs. Patricia Moore: Do you need them back. Secretary Linde Kowaiski: Well, we would need them for the record for about two weeks. Then we could give them back. Mr. Edward Williams: That is a preliminary plan so it's to scale. Chairman: That's all right, ok. Mrs. Patricia Moore: This is the side that's going to be on. the water view. On the Main Road. The Main Road is the windows. Page 21 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: What's approximately the square footage Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: 1600, 1600 square feet. Chairman: OK, Mrs. Moore let's start with Mr. Villa. Mrs. Patricia Moore: OK Member Villa: Just out of curiosity. I kJaow it's set way back. What is the distance from the Mail~ Road back? Mrs. Patricia Moore: This is the survey that shows it. Member Dinizio: It's set here. Secretary Linde Kowalski: At least 90. Member Villa: That's the back lot, that's not --. Secretary Linda Kowalski: About 320 ft. Chairman: That was the question. Take your time. Mrs. Patricia I~ioore: We have one of the survey's we had at one point. Secretary Linde Kowalski: About 320. Chairman: Welt, if you take 90 away from 464 or whatever the width of the house, is basically the setback. Mrs. Patricia Moore: From the street rest. Member Villa: From the mazn road. Mrs. Patricia Moore: From the Main road. Member Villa: 312 feet. Chairman: OK Member Villa: That's good enough. I just --. Mrs. Patricia Moore: It's !.3 acres, the whole lot. Chairman: l~ight Mr. Edward Williams: it's 312 feet from the ( ). Chairman Thank you Sir Page 22 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, ~996 Southold Town Beard of Appeals Member Villa: Is that right of way going to be used as your driveway too? Mr. Edward Williams: Yes, that's why I originally purchased this property, because the driveway was there. The right of way- was there to Mr. Hicks. So I figt~red if I bought this piece it saves me a 380 foot driveway to build. Member Villa: And it's only seven and one half feet wide. Mr. Edward Williams: It's 15. Chairman: Yes, it lays on both pieces. Mr. Edward Williams: 15 foot wide, the right of way. But seven and one half foot is on my property. Member Villa: OK Chairman: That was the question that I was going to ask. Anything else, Mr. Villa? Mr. Villa: No, that's all. Chairman: Mr. Dinizio: No, it's just that I agree with you on the right of way situation. I thinX that it's kind of ( itive) when you're talking about the right of way. instead of a street. But, I don't recali as ever having to make that decision. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Probably be 25 years ago. It's before my time or your time. It's in the record though~ that they have always done it this way. Pat, sorry, we interpreted. Go ahead. Mrs. Patricia Moore: And I'm used to that kind of an answer, you know. It's always been done that way. Secretary Linda Kowalski: it was done in the record - by Resolution of the Board of Appeals about 25 years ago. Mrs. Patricia Moore: Yes Secretary Linda Kowatski: But they feel it should be changed. They can do that. Chairman: Mrs. Tortora? Member Tortora: Do we have a formal interpretation of that letter? Secretary Linda Kowalski: No, you can include it in your decision though. She hasn't filed for a separate interpretation. Pat, we usually re~iuire a separate fee and all for a formal interpretation. Page 23 - Transcript of Hearings Reg~flar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southotd Town Board of Appeals But you're using that as part of your presentation for the granted variances, right. Is that it. Mrs. Patricia Moore: Whatever you'll give. I mean, if you interpret it that it's not a corner lot, then we don't need a variance. Secretary Linda Kowatski: That's right. Mrs. Patricia Moore: So, it does seem a shame to go through this kind of process and the expense. When in fact, it's a driveway~ and you provide for it in the cede by setting back from that right of way. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Yes Mrs. Patricia Moore: Otherwise, it's being a duplicate. I don't know. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Well, they can reverse the decision. Member Tortora: Well, the only thing I feel about this. I don't view this ss a proper right of way. I personally don't think that the 60 foot setback is adequate. Secretary- Linda Kowalski: Well, we can do that in the decision and if there is another procedure or fee, we would let you know. Mrs. Patricia Moore: Just send it to the Building Deparzmen~. Secretary Linda Kowalski: That's right. Mrs. Patricia Moore: So the nexz guy won't be affected by- it. (Apparently there was belief by the applicant that this may have been the first application of this type, or that the former interpretation of "frontyard" setback would be changed for private rights-of-way. See action/resolution taken and noted in the Minutes which did not change the interpretation requirmg front yard setbaeks from private rights-of-way.) Member Villa: ] have concerns over that. Secretary Linda Kowalski: It has to be discussed as a Board, too. Member Villa: It has to be discussed because is this going to open up a can of worms. Member Tortora: But the variance requested is substantial. Member Villa: Oh i don't have a problem with this. The way this is set up here (on this plan). Page 24 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southoid Town Board of Appeals Member Tortora: If you interpret it, that is the problem here. The way the Building Department interprets it. Secretary Linda Kowalski: The only thing is. If you change the interpretation, you're going to set a precedent for the whole Town of Southold. Member Villa: Right Secretary Linda Kowalski: That's why it has to be discussed. There are all kinds of rights-of-way. There are all kinds of reasons for rights-of-way. Mrs. Patrieia Moore: I understand, t have no problem. Secretary Linda Kowalski: We handle them on a case by case basis. Mrs. Patrieia Moore: You create a precedent but only to the e:<tent that if you want it changed you go through code revision and you write it into the code. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Right Mrs. Patricia Moore: And that's the proper way, so that people will read it and say, "Oh of course, it's a corner lot." But the way it's written in the code now, to have a policy of the Zoning Board. Fm not sure is the accurate. Chairman: No, it's not. Mrs. Patricia Moore: Or proper procedure to do it, and I don't want to put the Wiliiams through that, that --. Chairman: What we'll do is Mrs. Moore is, put it on the list. We have a list now. This is the fifth on the list. Secretary Linda Kowatski: The code should be changed. Chairman: Right, you're absolutely correct. Edward Williams: I understand it was just changed anyhow to include the way the Building Department understands it. It was changed to include rJght of ways. That's the way they hiterpreted it. Mrs. Patricia Moore: On the setback it was the size of a yard setback. Member Tortora: It's very hard to interpret. Secretary Linda Kowalski: It will be addressed, Pat. We will be putting it in writing. Page 25 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mrs. Patricia Moore: I don't know if the Williams are anxious to s~ar~ their construction, so whatever ls in the best interest of the clients certainly, you know I'm in favor of it. This partieular situation I thought was unfair. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Yes, it's not the first time it's come before the board so that's why it's got to be discussed again. Chairman: Thank you. Mrs. Patricia Moore: Do you have other cluestions. Chairman: We'll see what generates out of the for or against. Mrs. Patricia Moore: OK, thank you. Chairman: Thank you. Anybody else in the audience that would like To speak in favor of this application. Mrs. Williams: I would just like to say that if we want the Town to look nicer, I don't think facing the house from the side To the water when people drive by, looks as nice as this house will look. You know, there's no law for that but it just makes common sense to me that you would want it to look. Chairman: In conformance. Mrs. Williams: Yes, in conformance with the rest of the ( ) ~ha[ are all facing the water. Chairman: Anybody else like To speak against the application. Hearing no further comments. Anybody like to offer a Resolution. Member Dinizio: Well, I'd like to grant it as applied and [t certainly is a pereeption of, as you just said, how it would look h~ lhe neighborhood. It's a long narrow lot, you know. You have to perceive it to be a tot in any respect, in a driveway along side it, no~ necessarily a road, and I prefer that we didn't even try to touch the right of way situation. Certainly not even mention it in this. Secretary Linda Kowaiski:~ At the later stage, yes. Chairman: Yes. I'll seconed it. All in favor. Have a lovely evening. Page 26 - Transcript of Hearings Regnllar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southotd Town Board of Appeals 8:25 p.m. Appl. No. 4362 LEWIS B. SHANKS. This is a request for the grant of a waiver as provided by Article 11, Section 100-26 in this merger of land as determined in the January- 22, 1996 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, concerning a vacant parcel of !and if 11,250 sq. ft., which !and has been held in common ownership with adjacent land during a period of time commencing July 1, 1983, The subject land is referred to as Lot 77 on the Map of Founders Estates, and the land adjacent thereto is referred to a Lot 76 also containing less than 20,000 sq. ft. in area. Street Address: 450 and 350 Old Shipyard Road, Southold, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-64-2-47 (and Parcel 1000-64-2-48 transferred by deed on 6/7/90 from Shanks to Chiaramonte). Zone District: R~40 Residential. Chairman: I have one letter in support. I have a copy of a survey dated April 10, 1995 indicating a parcel of property approximately 75 by 150. I have a copy of a Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. is there someone that would like to be heard. How are you tonight. Jennie Gould Esq: How are you Mr. Goehringer. Jennie Gould appearing for Lewis B. Shanks. t have a tax bill for Lot 47. Chairman: OK Jennie Gould Esq: I have copies of the vacant land deals that were issued previously- and this is an updated. Chairman: Oh, that's good. Jennie Gotfld Esq: The Tax Maps that Scott Russei] prepared for me today showing which parcels were still vacant in the subdivision. Chairman: Oh~ that's ~eat. Thank you. Jennifer Gould Esq: Just to give you a little background on this application. You know, as far as we're concerned this is an apparent merger because back in 1990 Mr. Shanks conveyed to Dr. Chiaramonte in his way or ( ) tonight, and ~)efore he did that, there was a CO issued to Lot 48, which was conveyed to the Chiaramonte's, and Mr. Shanks, whose Mother before she died, had applied for a vacant land CO with the Building Department. A vacant ]and CO from the Builder Inspector in 1986. Then after she died Mr. Shanks went himself, and got another vacant land CO in 19S9 because he wanted to be sure, when he conveyed to the Chiaramonte's that he would still have the lot. His intention was, he and his wife live in California ! believe, that they would come back and build a home. Welt, six years have passed and they decided that they wanted to sell the parcel. They don't want to build now and they- entered into a contract for sale. Page 27 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southotd Town Board of Appeals The buyer applied for a building permit, was issued a building permit, and then zn August of this year that building permit was revoked by the Btdlding Department saying, it was a non buildable lot. So, that's why we're here tonight because the lots have merged according to the Code. Linda, I gave you the Title Search, didn't I? Secretary Linda Kowalski: Yes, that's in the file. Jennie Gould Esq: These lots, originally they were conveyed to the Shanks parents by 55 and 56 as separate parcels. They never been merged bi- deed before. As yon can see from the Tax Map, they have always been separate on the Tax Map. In the notice of Disapproval, Suffolk County Health Department has issued a permit to dig a test well on the premises. So they have been, and there are separate Tax bills for the property. Chairman: There is also Town water there, isn't there? Jennifer Gould Esq: I don't know what the test wells, maybe for. I don't know. To tell you the truth, I don't know. Secretary Linda Kowalski: See if it says it on the map. Jennifer Gould Esq: If you look at the criteria in the new merger law, the first thing you're apt to consider. Wilt there be an increase in density in this subdivision. The Founders Estate snbdivision was filed in 1927. If you lock at the Map, most of the parcels were quarter acres. A few are larger, a few are smaller. But most a quarter acre, 75 by 150, which is the size of this tot. There are, originally I think there were 127 separate parcels. Some of those have merged. You can tell thai by the Tax Map. But there amc only 9 vacan~ parcels a~ the p~esen~ time. So, by allowing him to construct a home on this parcel, ts not going to upset the density of the neighborhood, or be inconsistent with the neighborhood. And it would be also recognizing a lot, which is consistent with other tots tn the neighborhood. In fact, as [ said before, it's bigger than alot of the lots. Obviously, if he's no~ granted the waiver, there is going zo be economic hardship. He has already Iosi one sale because of his inability or the buyers inability to get a building permit. When he sold the lot to Dr. Clfiaramonte in 1990, he assumed he was keeping a buildable lot for himself and his family. Finally, the character of this lot itself. There are not going ~o be any problems with fill or any adverse effec~ on the environment. Chairman: OK Jennie Gould Esq: Any questions. Chairman: We'll start with Mr. Doyen. Page 28 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Member Doyen: Not at tlfis time. Chairman: OK,Mrs. Tortora. Member Tortora: How many lots in the area have merged? Jennie Gould Esq: They got to be rode)-. There was originally 127. Now there are at least 100 with, he thought with improved houses on them. It's hard to tell how many have merged. Some you can see with the Lot line changes. He looked them up and said, there are at least 95 to 100 houses. You have to subtract it. I think~ nine vacant and the rest --. But there are I00 ex~sting lots, so maybe it's going to get merged. Chairman: OK. Mr. Dinizio: Member Dinizio: Only that it's fairly clear to me that the intention was always to have a lot, and it was never given up in any manner. That's all I have. Chairman: Mr. Villa Member Villa: The only problem I fee! is that, you know, you say there are only 20 merged lots, but if you grant this merger. What's goin~ to say the other 20 can'l come in. You're not going to save the density. This is always a possibility. Jennifer Gould Esq: When you say merge. Some people have it that way because they want it that way. They built there home in the middle of two lots. Member Villa: Well, some of them. Jennifer Gould Esq: I mean, that's probably an issue with the entire merger law. You don't really know which lots are merged, and which lots people choose to have that way. Member Villa: That's right, and I've seen situations where houses were actually destroyed to create the second lot, and it does happen. I mean, houses burn down, the)- move houses so that the)- can free the second lot. It's hard to say. My problem with this, that even the originai zoning that went into effect in Southold in 1957 created Lots of 12.5. This one is even smaller than that. That was the smallest zoning that Southold had. So this predates zoning. But you know, it is a small lot. Jennifer Gould Esq: Well, if you look at the rest of the neighborhood though, and tiffs is a rather large neighborhood, over 100 homes, and most of them are on 11,00 square foot parcels. It's not in keeping with the neighborhood in any respect. Chairman: What did you say the date of the subdivision was? Page 29 - Transerip[ of Hearings ReguJar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southotd Town Board of Appeals Jennifer Gould Esq: The subdivision was 1927. I think most of the building ~enz on in the fifties, but the subdivision was 1927. Chairman: We thank you Ms. Gould. We'll see what devetopes at the hearing here. We'll be closing the hearing at the end and recessing for later. So you're welcome so szay. You'll hear the deliberation. Jennie Gould Esq: OK, grea~ Chairman: Is there anyone else that would like to speak in favor of the application? Is there anybody that would like to speak against the application. Seeing no hands £ make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. All in favor Page 30 - Transcript of Hearings Reg~atar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:45 p.m.-Appl. No. 4354 - LOUIS MOORE BACON (ROBINS ISLAND). T_his is an application based upon two Notices of Disapproval, the grounds for which read as follows: E. 1 Family Vacation Home, s/w portion of Robins island will exceed principal building height limitation of 35 ft. as stated in the Bulk Schedule for the R-400 Zone. Ell Family Vacation Home as a principal one-family use; Building C.7 Caretaker Cottage for year round use and occupancy and Buildings B.I Lane Lodge, C4 (C4.1) Agricultural Compound, E.4 Garage with staff or guest quarters each as an accessory-: One family Dwelling not to exceed one (i) dwePLing on each lot under Permitted uses in an R-400 Zone. Action required by the Zoning Board of Appeals. All buildings which will contain living quarters as an accessory with an extension of the principal one-family dwelling use and/or which exceed 18 ft. ft. height limitations as an accessory are being considered for variances under Article 1!1, Section 100-33A. A.2 Boat House, B.1 Lane Lodge, BI.1 Garage, B.2 MacKay Cottage, C.] Recreational Building, (Farm center unit) E.4 Garage with staff quarters, B!.2 Mechanical Services Building and B2.1 Mackay Garage will exceed 18' height limitation as accessory buildings, Article 111, Section 100-33A. (Approvals required by the Zoning Board of Appeals before building permits may be granted.) Location of Property: Robins Island, near North Race of Great Peconic Bay, Town of Southotd, NY; Parcel ID No. ]000-134-3-5 of 434+-acres. Chairman to Kevin Law, Attorney for the Applicant: We thank you and your staff your arclzitect and everyone fo~. the great assemblage of the visual aids that we have here. I do need a motion to reeonvene. All in favor, Aye. Mr. Kevin Law: Thank you very much. Kevin Law from Nixon, Hargrave, Devin & Doyle for Mr. Bacon. As the board knows, we were here for our first public hearing in the month of December, and we tried to use that meeting to introduce Mr. Bacon's plans for Robins Island to the board. We then went into the next hearing in Jahuary, where we tried to concentrate on the presentation of the dwelling unit issues, which is one of the more significant parts of our variance application. We then spent the later part of January addressing some of the concerns and comments with questions raised by both your Environmental Consultant who assists with the board in carrying out its SEQRA responsibilities, and from a member of the community, and we recently forwarded that response to the board and to your consultant. What we'd like to do here tonight, if it pleases the beard, is to address the height variances and to discuss the reasons why we are reqnesting the height variances. What I'd like to do is just share some comments with you without those height variances to get some thoughts and comments, and then turn it over to Jim Page 31 - Transcrip~ of Hearings t~egnlar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Thompson who's you know our architect, Mr. Bacon's architect for the plan, and he could go into a more specific description of those height variances, and using those wsual aids that we brought here tonight, the model and the drawings. Chairman: It sonnds perfect. Mr. Law: If it sounds okay to the board, I will commence my comments. Thank you. Again, par~ of what we did during the month of January was that Mr. Thompson wen~ back and reviewed the design and the functi, ons of the structures that Mr. Bacon la proposing, and we're happy zo report to the board that we have significantly reduced the size of the boathouse as well as we've reduced the size of three of the garages that we're seeking variances on, to the extent that we brought them down [o 18 Feet. We've eliminated the need for variances on three of the garages. While we are still seeking a variances for the boathouse we have brought down the size significantly from 35. a proposed 35 foot height to 29.6 fee~. What I'd like to do is inform the board as To what the function of some of the structures are that we're seeking, what the height variances are and some of the reasons why we're seeking the variances, The boathouse - those who have an application in front of you - we've identified it as 8.2 in area A, which we refer zo as the Island access area, is basically designed for the control the proper~y access. It is also going co, besides the boat storage functions of this building, it will also have room and space for the boat captain's first aid area and security. The boathouse will function and serve as access for eqnipmen~, goods and services as well as emergency vehicles. It is going to be designed ~o be visually appealing. It is, we would like zo think that it represents a resurrection almost all other structures that were once on the Island. For those who are familiar, and I know that the Southaid Community is, and the New Suffolk Community is. Historically there were a number of s~ructures right where we're proposing zo build the boathouse, and especially the old brick Hill building was once there. Five hundred feet to the south the proposed location of the boathouse are four existing buildings which, the roof tops because of the topography, are actually going to be higher than the proposed height of the boathouse. Jim will get into that more as he goes into discussing it with the drawings. For those ~nembers of the board that were with us on the site inspection in December, if you recall the windy day that i~ was. We were standing right there near the boathouse, and we could barely hear ourselves talk to one another. I think that goes to show the need co have a secure s~ruc~ure there, and co provide the access for the Island, and also to provide for the comfort of those coming co and from the Island, as well as all the other reasons I jus~ Page 32 - Transcript of Hearings Regmlar Meeting - February 7, !996 Southold Town Board of Appeals shared with you. For the equipment goods and services and emergency vehicles. We do not believe that the boathouse will create any undesirable change to the community. We believe the design promotes seclusion with the existing buildings on the Island, and that we plan as required, we ~qll comply with ail the Town, and DEC, Wetland requirements and regulations and standards. More importantly, that we don't believe that this will have any detriment to the health, safety and welfare of the community. It will be consistent with a multiple-boat houses and similar structures throughout the waterfront communities on beth Forks. Those are the reasons, and the reason why we need the height is again, because it's going to be the primary structure where goods and services and vehicles, bringing those goods and services to the Island will be coming off the dock and on to. Some of these utilities, fuel trucks and emergency vehicles will need height as well. So, we think there is a need for the size we're proposing. Feel free to interrupt me, not interrupt me, but ask me questions if it pleases the board, I~!l just go right into again, the description of tile buildings we are seeking variances on, and if you want to save your questions till the end, I'll accommodate the board. Chairman: While you're talking about the boathouse again. The access is directly from the dock to the boathouse but there will be · an alternate access around the boathouse for emergency vehicles. Is that correct? Mr. Law: Yes that is correct. Chairman: That was my concern. Ok. Mr. Law: The next building that we're seeking height variances, a height variance ~ ~ ~o., is the recreation building. Again, on your records, I hope you've identified it as C1, C being the farm center area, and the recreational building we're proposing at 45 feet high. We think that the building will address the recreational needs of the applicants guests and family. As i stated out in December meeting, there are no parks or playgrounds over on Robins Island, and having an indoor recreational facility which wilt also prevent children. As you know, Mr. Bacon has four of them. From planning in environmental sensitive areas, what we're trying to do with the structure is to keep ail related indoor recreational activities under one roof, for the sake of effective organization as well as to prevent multiple structures from impacting the environmeo~. We believe the building is nestled far enough inland, not to be seen, lower than the tree lines, and the proposed design is going to be an attraetive gambrel farm style roof to be consistent Page 33 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals with the farm cen~er that going ~o be located in with the other Agricultural building in that area. Again, like the boathouse we don't believe this will have any undesirable change to the Commnnity, and it would have no detrimeni ~o the health, safety and welfare to the community ~o grant tkis variance. Just one other point with this. As you know, we discussed a~ the December hearing. We are proposing an indoor tennis court for tkis s~ruc~ure, and an indoor tennis facility, if you checked around, we believe needs a minimum of 40 feet height to accommodate an indoor facility. I share that with the board as well. We did a little bit of research on that issue. Chsirman: On that issue, there is no physical impae~ because it's nestled ir~ the trees. Is that correct. Mr. Law: Yes, we believe so. We believe it's nestled far enough inland. You cm~ see on the model, if you do recall, it's this building here. Chairman: Right Mr. Law: All the way. Pretty much close to the center of the Island. The next building that we're requesting a height variances is the vacation home. Mr. Bacon vacation home which we identified as D.1 down in the Southwestern portion of the Island. Again, it's a ~ali building because we believe a tall building equals a small building footprint. We can take up less space on the ground by going up a little higher. Considering the size and the uniqueness of the Island, we do no~ believe that that ~s a substantial request. Again, rather than dot in the coast Line with large estates, as some may wan~ ~o do, someone else on ~he Island, Mr. Bacon is jus~ looking ~o establish one vacation home on the Island. Again, we believe the vacation home will be lower than a ~ree line. It's only going to be around 200 feet in length. No, it's only go~ng to be visible from about 200 feet of coastline. Let me take that back again, I'm sorry. There will be about 200 feet of the coastline view, will be disturbed, and that is [ess than three qusr~ers of one percent of the 5.15 miles of coastline on Robin's Island. So we believe that is a very insignificant number. Thus, ~:he ~mpac~ will be minimal. The house will also be setback over 100 feet away from the top of the bluff. Again, Mr. Bacon plans utilizing attractive designs zo be compatible with the Historic s~ruc~ures in the community. We also plan on having ~ vegetated buffer up to six feet high. Six feet in height as welt as ~o plant shade [roes in front of the house. Here again, we don't believe there won't be any undesirable change zo the communily, and that there won't be any detriment ~o the health, safety or welfare of Zhe community. We believe it's an appropriate use for the Island. Page 34 - Transcript of Hearings Reg~llar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals The next and perhaps last height variance, and I say perhaps, and I'll park that thought for a moment because I'll get to another issue, when I get to talk about the caretaker's cottage in the Lane Lodge. The next structure that we need a vaz~iance for is the garage with staff quarters. That is down also in the family area, in front of the vacation home. The garage itself is allowed in any respect. An 18 foot high garage. We're looking for a 25 foot structure. Again~ we believe that the 25 height variance that we're seeking for this structure is not substantial. It will not be visible off Island because it will be in front of the vacation home. We would Hke to view this garage with the staff quarters as simply, unattached guest quarters to the vacation home with no neighbors. There will be no undesirable change to the community. Again, with the small footprint, there is less of an impact, and we don't believe there will be any detriment to the health and safety of the community by granting this variance. The last two structures that we are requesting height variances on, and when I say request, i still think it's up to the board as to whether or not we need height variances for these structures. That is the Caretaker's Cottage which we've identified as C.7 in the farm center area, and the Lane Lodge B.1. Both are proposed to be 25 feet high, and what we spent our January meeting on, going over the dwelling unit issues on habitable quarters, on accessory or suberdinate buildings, depending on how the board views these buildings. I know the board hasn't ruled on that yet. Perhaps I'll throw this out to the board, that if it grants those area variances for those uses, the board could consider allowing those buildings to go up to 35 feet as a right, as a principal dwelling unit under the R400 code would allow. If that would be the case, there would be no height variances needed here. If however you view, or construe these buildings to be subordinate to the principal use, which is the vacation home, which is the principal building, we then require and respectfully request height variances. So, I'd lfie to just show the board a couple of facts on bo~h the Caretaker's Cottage and the Lane Lodge. The Caretaker's Cottage would be 10 feet lower than the 35 feet committed under the' cede. I think both the Planning' Board and the Town Attorney shared with the board. The Island is a large isolated estate and requires a 24-hour-a-day caretaker, and we need accommodation to accommodate a caretaker for the Island. This house is also nestled far enough inland, to the middle of the Island. Again, it's in the farm center wtzich we've identified as area C in the center of the Island. We don't believe it will pose any threats to the community and there will be no detriment to the health, safety and welfare of the community. Lastly, and I'll be quiet after this one, is the Lane Lodge. We are proposing this one to be also to be 25 feet in Page 35 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southo[d Town Beard of Appeals height. The Lane Lodge again presents again, another different set of circumstances. It's already up, it's existing. As you know, Mr. Lane, one of the former owners, commenced construction of it back in 1917, I believe it was, Jim, and just never completed it because of illnesses and other problems came upon that family. However, Mr. Bacon was strongly encouraged by the Town To restore that structure and he would Hke to do so, and use it as a combination for his shooting guests and other family guests. This building has already consisted with the existing and proposed structures on the Island. It would be a waste to not restore it and To knock it down. Further, waste to do notlming with the building, and have Mr. Bacon pay taxes on a building he can't utilize. I thi~k it's in the Town's interest and Mr. Bacon's interest, to restore this building and not request any additional height on it. Just give us a variance if one is needed, and [ say, if one is needed for what's already existing. Again, I believe this request proposes no threat or no detriment to the health, safety or welfare of the commul~ty. With those comments on the record, I'd like to now turn it over to Mr. Thompson who can perhaps ~ive you a better description of au least the boathouse, which seemed to be a conoern to the board at the last meeting, and he can use his drawings that him and his staff were able to do over the last month. Chairman: Thank you. Mr..James Thompson: Good evening. My name is James Thompson, Architect from Greenich, Connecticut representing Mr. Bacon. In response to the board questions, we've attempted to make a graphic l:resentation here to indicate some of the features and characters, and the general style of work that it is. We've been commissioned to produce for Mr. Bacon, and respectfully submit that since it's not possible to have all buildings on the property designed at the same time, it's going to be a long process that this gives an indication of the flavor of things. We feel it's also been important given the fact that we're proposing to establish a structure and location that have had structures on it back into the mid 19 century. That it is not a new visual impact on the community and that although the building is higher than 18 feet allowed by code for accessory buildings, that it's not a substantial visual impact. What we've attempted to do here is, in sections, ~o take it all the way through the site from the forest tree line behind the Lane House, down to the water including an accurate scaling of the pier 380 feet long, that extends into Cutchogue Harbor, show the relative height and massing of the existing buildings in the contexts of the proposed new structure. So, what you see at this point of the drawing is, the Mackay Cottage, the Lane House and the Icehouse, which are in a group at the top of the hilt. This is Lane and plan, Mackay and Ice and this is the footprint of the boathouse, Page 36 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting ~ February 7, !996 Southold Town Board of Appeals which is at elevation 12 feet above mean sea level. The existing structures are at 32 to 34 feet above mean sea level, and they reach heights of the buildings. Again, this is one of the difficulty with the code. In our opinion, The measurements of building heights to mean rafter le~gth, obviously produces a lot of different kinds of heights for different roof styles, and I know this is asa interpret problem. A building like Lane, two and one half story structure, because of it's salt box design measured against the short rafter, which is the way the Building Department looks at it, actually only has a height of 25 feet, although it's a very substantial structure. In a simple gable roof, in an effort to produce a shingle style agricultural looking bailding as a boathouse~ and the larger scale is the view from the North as though you were standing on the pier looking towards the structure. What's proposed here is intersecting gable roofs. We've attempted to break down the mass of the building by using singte story wings on it, as opposed to all the buildings being a two story, related only this center bay that runs through, that has the loft mezzanine. But to have access for vehicles with, you know we're required to have a 14 foot high door, which really drives the height of the building overall. One of the things we're continuing to attempt to do is, minimize footprints of buildings and the results and the !ack of efficiency's and volume, and the increased excavation that comes whenever we try to spread things out into a ,larger footprints and stay lower with the buildings, there is a coI!ateral impact of increased excavation. In forested areas it means, more clearing, more soil disturbance and over all we think a negative impact on the site~ particularly giving some of the voluntary restrictions that we're prepared to aecept in terms of spoiled stock pile and disposing the spoils and what not in a construction effort. Every cubic yard of soil that cannot be, as a result of excavation that can not be handledappropriately on site in an environmental acceptable way, has to be exported from the site. So, there is definitely a cost assoeiated with spreading the building out horizontally. Again you can see as Kevin mentioned, the actual height of this if you can imagine being in a boat in the Harbor on the Town beach in New Suffolk and looking across. The presence of these buildings which have been here since the early part of the 20 Century, will actually have higher ridge lines than the proposed new structure at the beach, and I do have one other little sketch, whieh it's not usually successful, but I'd like to pass it around as an effort to do an accurate scale massing on the photograph enlargement showing the pier of the boathouse and the Lane house behind, that gives you a sense of how those are layered in three dimensions. If you were in a boat a thousand yards off shore in the middle of Cutchog~ue Harbor. Page 37 - Transcript of Hearings l~egular Meeting - February ?~ 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Jim, would you like to move over so you can see this. Why don't you, ok. Mr. Jim Thompson: It's hard to figure out to turn it to you guys or to the audience. Is there any question or addi~onal points we could make [n this area before we go To the other demonstration? Chairman: Only that we dearly would like to borrow this for a little while, while we're pondering --. Mr. James Thompson: We're prepared to submit this as an exhibit. Chairman: Wonderful, thank you. Mr. James Thompson: We also got some black and white copies that are not mounted. Chairman: OK Mr. James Thompson: That are available to submit. There not renderings, they are just black and white. Member Dinizio: The building that's there, that is not a building that you intend to build, not that, the other. Mr. James Thompson: These are all existing. Member Dinizio: Yes, they are not clustered in that fashion, they're Mr. Ja~nes Thompson: That's actually you know, the site section was taken through here. So if you actually stand and look, they actually overlay and we felt compelled ~o draw all three buildings, because if you just see any one of them by themselves, it doesn't give an appropriate sense of what the building masses of these, as s collection at the ~op of the hill. Member Dinizio: But it's no~ one building, that's not one building. Mr. James Thompson: What your actually seeing. You're standing right here and you're seeing one, two, three, four buildings. Member Dinizio: OK Mr. James Thompson: In that group, and you're going ~o think, the key thing here is. ~o begin ~o see the height differential caused both by the ~opog~raphy and the scale of the buildings. Chairman: Right Mr. James Thompson: That ex~st. Page 38 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Right ~--.. Mr. James Thompson: Lane in particular which is a substantial structure. It's between 22 feet higher in elevation. The bottom of Lane is vi~'tualty at the top of the proposed boathouse. Chairman: The clearing aspect of what occurred over there of course, makes it much more visual mhd you ki!ow, I understand what you're saying. Secretary Linda Kowalski: How high is the highest point of those four buildings put together? i mean, is that the 45 foot lot. Mr. James Thompson: The actual ridge of Lane house is 35 feet above average grade and it's sitting at 32 feet above sea level, so it's 67 feet above sea level. Secretary Linda Kowalski: In height. Mr. James Thompson: To the ridge of Lane house. Secretary Linde Kowalski: OK. Member Dinizio: You were interested in how high the house is from -- (to Board Clerk). Secretary Linda Kowalski: If you mean when you look "at it," yes. ~-~ Thanks, Jim. Mr. James Thompson: 87 feet from this point and we're proposing a height of 29.6 on the boathouse itself. The structure is 28.8 to there bu~ then there is an average grade deferential that you have to take into consideration. So, ridge height as opposed to height for ordinances purposes on this building is 32 feet and the floor of the building is 12 feet above sea level. So, 44 feet to the ridge. 67. Board Secretary: And that's the .highest part of the Island really, right there too, right? [VIr. James Thompson: Actually, the highest point of the Island is back up here in the center where the water system are. Which is 80 feet above sea level. Member Doyen: How much? Mr. James Thompson: Eighty feet above sea level. Secretary Linde Kowalski: Thank you. Chairman: Great Page 39 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. James Thompson: This exhibit is a little more, not as dramatic, but what we've a~tempted To do here is a geometric analysis that views you, and occasion of site lines and relative impact of the requested height variances at the family vacation house. The plan is a replication of what was an exkibit in the Environmel~tal Assessment Form which obviously shows Peeonic Bay, the beach and bluff, the vegetated buffer zone with the proposed location of the family vacation house, pool, pool house and garage with Staff quarter's. To reinforce Kevin's comment, given the heavy vegetation of [orest in this area, the garage with Staff quarzers is about 240 feet back from the top of Bluff. If we elect to define top of Bluff it's a 50 foot contour which is where the infleetion from the level terrain down slope occurs. Again t think, with that distance back, the difference in height between an 18 foot building and an 25 Zoot building is relatively hisignificant. One of the big concerns here is, if required to conform than basically what we're talking about, is the living quarters being in dormer space under the rafzers which given the requirement For habitable space to have a seven foot ceiling heights, you really reduce the effected usable area of the s~ructure requiring again, a larger footprint, more impac~ as opposed ~o allowing enough height to have wall space on that second floor to get headroom. The pool house as proposed [s a conforming structure as an accessory, and what we've done is taken a vertical section through the site and the primarily building and one of the things that clear from this is. The bluff comes up and it drops a little bit as it goes To South, and also drops significantly as it moves East on the interior. So, your effective average grade is appro:dmately 46 feet above mean sea level a~ the house itself, and your effective average grade at the ~op of the bluff is 50, so you're already starting below that point. We're suggesting the willingness To maintain the native species vegetative buffer average six feet in height - I think, it's 20 ~o 50 feet, MR. LAW: 25 to 50. MR. THOMPSON: 25 to 50. So one of the things that we had hoped to do was ~o be able ~o make an adjustment ~o this falling grade, by bringing the house up a bit, hoping ~o maintain some views out over the bay and what we show ~n the drawing is in blue, conformin~ group line thai respects the 35-fz. height requirement, and the net effect of that is essentially a 1-1/2 story szrueture which would mean all the bedroom spaces and the res~ of that on the second floor of the building would be under the eaves and require dormers, e~ cetera, in order to have light, air and views which doesn't offer tile prospect of a very generous design. By asking for the 10 ft. variance To 45 fi, it allows the 2-1/2 story s[ruc~ure requested which then means that under the eaves spaces would simply be secondary space of storage, eT cetera but it gives us again the wall height ~o allow vertical walls on second Page 40 - Transcript of Hearings Reveler Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals floor to allow bedrooms and whatnot to have more ty~pical windows and not be restricted to sloping rafter and dormer spaces in principal bedrooms and family living areas. Again, I think the other key thing to realize is that gi~en the height of the bluff, the setback from the top of the bluff and vegetation, there are very considerable sight lines out to the bay.' There are no neighbors. There's effectively 45 ft. height even in a boat you would have to be vcithin 200 - basically the whole zone within 250 feet of the shoreline, you cannot see the house. So they're talking about boats offshore - 100 yards or more away from the Island that you would begin to see the ridges at 45 feet height. So I think there's a relative pro,miry there and there's an impact. We're now tatk~g about being 200 yards offshore before you can even see the walls of the house. We're talking about a shingled roof and a tree canopy and what is the relative impact, visual impact if you're more than 200 yards away from the man's property before you can even see wails or cornices or windows. CHAIRMAN: Well, the greatest impact is going to be in the winter time when there's the least amount of (leaves)--. MR. THOMPSON: True. But your sight Hnes are not going to change even in the winter. CIIAIRMAN: No. You're absolutely correct. MEMBER TORTORA: You could have a 6 ft. vegetated buffer, we went to 50 feet. MR. THOMPSON: ! think 50 ft. depth is actually what we're showing in the drawing. And again, most of the preliminary guidance that we're getting from geologists and otherwise indicates that the maintettance of shrub-type vegetated buffer is critical component that's part of the long-term management plan through the Island area to try to maintain the stability of the bluffs to the degree that bluffs at those heights can be stable. So again I think the real variance requested in my opinion is minimum relief for the specific sight situation that we're dealing -wdth in this case. And again there are no Southold Town dwelling units oP other habitants that will be visually effected by t!~s structure. (Changed tape. ) CHAIRMAN: As always, the information that you have brought us is just unprecedented. Just unprecedented. Mag~mificent. The remaining area of the agricultural compound would be just as traditional in the endeavors of architectural - MR. THOMPSON: Our mandate is to produce for Louis Bacon a family residential estate that carries the character of the East End of Long island, ]gth Century Architectural treatments. I think the g~£eatest compliment he could give us when we're finished is that we were Page 4J - Transcript of Hearings t{e~o~ular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Soutbold Town Board of Appeals never here in the first place. Simply found a nice Estate left over from the 19th Century, like he was able to have it for years. CHAIRMAN: Unbelievable. Thank yeti so much. MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. KEVIN LAW, ESQ.: Mr. Goehringer, I think you can tell that it's an exciting projecz. It's one of the most exciting projeczs I've ever worked on, probably ever will work on. t know there are challenges before both us, the applicant, and the Board, and what I did the plan, Mr. Bacon's plan clearly does is, it demonstrates that he plans on being a careful steward of the Island. I think it's an environmental sensitive plan. It's an aesthetically pleasing plan. There's no detriment to the safety, health, welfare of the community. There are nothing but positive effects on the local economy, local property Tax base, New Suffolk School District, and the property is unique. We believe the plan observes the spirit of the Code and strives and reaches and achieves the purposes sent ouz in the Town Code and in the Town's Master Plan. We believe the plan furthers the public interest and it protects the public safety and welfare. And with that, Jim and I will be happy to answer any questions and~or reserve our right to respond to any commen~s. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The only comment that I have is that, I have two comments - Mr. Allen has asked me to read his letter into the record so I'll do that before the end of the hearing. And my discussion with Mr. Newman today from the Suffolk County Planning Commission regarding the Suffolk County Planning Commission's deter~fination of basically saying that this is a town determination decision, he did ask me one question, and I don't know if he mentioned it to you, and that is that we have talked about the possibility of the Building Inspector and one representative from the Zoning Board after each particular project is completed - probably when you're ready for a C.C. or whatever the ease might be. He had asked me, and I don't think if it was a formal request, but he asked me if either one member of the Suffolk County Planning Commission could go with us on a site inspection and so I'm just throwing that out to you. MR. LAW: It certainly sounds like a reasonable request. CHAIRMAN: I think what he was requesting is that, you know, a different member each time that a representative goes over there. I'm not talking about during construction - I'm talking about at the completion of each building or whatever, and I said I would throw t. bat out to you. I don't think it's unreasonable. MR. LAW: It sounds reasonable. And to the extent that we could try to coordinate an inspection with a visit from one of their planners assigned to this, to try and accommodate, especially if it Page 42 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals furthers the relationship between your particular board and the county. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Ok. Mr. Villa, any questions? MEMBER VILLA: Just out of curiosity when you mentioned footprints and everything else on the vacation home. I see on the chart you've got a square footage there. What's the footprint there? Just roughly. MR. LAW: Which structure? MEMBER VILLA: Vacation home. CHAIRMAN: The vacation home is 15,500 square feet. MR. LAW: That's floor area. We need the footprint itself. MR. THOMPSON: It's about 7500 including porches. MEMBER VILLA: And basically it's going to be occupancy on two floors. MR. THOMPSON: We're calling it 2.5, 2-1/2 story structure. There are some habitable spaces under the eaves particularly for off-season storage. SECRETARY L. KOWALSKI: Does that 7500 figure that you gave include all stories or is that just the first floor? MR. THOMPSON: That's the first ground floor. CHAIRMAN: Ok. Going back to Member Dinizio. MEMBER DINIZIO: I have a couple of tt~ings. Mainly not concerning tonight because they're so detailed, i can't believe that I asked for that. I know I had asked for some scales, but this is overwhelming. But I did, going through some of the correspondence back and forth, a redraft of conditions - I think you saw that already, Kevin, I'd just like to clarify something here or maybe get some kiug of comment from you on this. And I'll read it to you. "The owner agrees to allow the Zoning Hoard of Appeals to inspect the island, and within buildings and structures, to insure compliance of covenants and conditions established by the Zoning Board Appeals." SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I re-worded that a little bit, Jim. i'll give you the new one. What number is that. MEMBER DiNIZIO: Ok. It's the mentioned of "covenants" I guess is my concern° Page 43 - Transcript of Hearings R. egular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals SECRETARY KOWALSKI: What number is that - CC-TA-9. SECRETARY: I reworded it to add "Building Inspector." MEMBER DtNIZ!O: I guess what I'm looking for, I(evin, is some idea of what you think the covenants are. KEVIN LAW, ESQ.: What are you looking for, my opinion as To the legal definition? If the Board is looking to impose certain conditions on this, what I view them as, that they are conditions that will run with the land, that they will be binding on Mr. Bacon, his heirs, and assigIls and successors, and that if we wanted to deviate from the plan as proposed here today, we would have to come back before this Board and request your permission. And if that's your idea of a covenant, we're on the same page. MEMBER DINIZIO: Ok. Does it necessarily - in other words, you're thinking more towards the building aspect of this as opposed To the entire island and say covenanting all the island, remaining undeveloped part of the island as never being developed, or -- MR. LAW: Correct. We're not talking about covenants and restrictions relating To the specific b~ilding we're seeking the MEMBER DINIZIO: Right. SECRETARY KOWALSKI: They have to be related to the variance portions. MEMBER DINIZIO. Ok. And one more thing, ra Mr. Fenton's letter of February 1, because I don't recall hear'rag this. He's discussing what, I guess, he heard au the meeting - au Number 2, he says, "Mr. Bacon will not attemp~ to reduce the taxation of Robins Island by reasons of any allocation To any Tax free element and would pay taxes on the entire parcel." Is that a true statement? KEVIN LAW, ESQ.: No. It's not. It's a bit inaccurate, and [ sent to the Board yesterday, Linda - I don't know if you had a chance To get ii To them? SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes, but the Board Members lust received it tonight and they didn't get To read it before the hearing. But they do have it, MR. LAW: Basically, what I represented and else represented phrased differently than as Mr. Fenton phrased it, or categorized it, was that as for property tax assessments on the Island - the actions taken by Mr. Bacon, whether they lead to any reduction if he was entitled to that, or if they are going to lead to any increases - it's ~oing to be up to the Board of Assessors, and the point I made last month was once we get a couple of these Page 44 - Transcript of Hearings Regular [Vleeting - February ?, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals improvements under way, and constructed and get C.O.s for them, items like that typically lead to increased assessments. And a further point I made was that Mr. Bacon is going to be a major provider of property taxes, and he's not going to be a demander of any community services. And furthermore, I'm glad you raised it. It's part of a untold story with this plan, and we included it in our submittals back originals submittals and I don't mean to be a repeater or bore the board with repetitions, but I think it's very important to note that in 1.985 Mr. Bacon paid over $93,000 in property taxes to the Town on behalf of the Island, and over 53% of all those taxes went just to the New Suffolk School District and the New Suffolk Library. $45,000 plus went to those two entities. The other balance went to the Town of Southoid with about 18% going to the County of Suffolk. So, and he's not requiring any services there, so I tizink the plan is a win-win for all the municipalities and entities as we!! as Mr. Bacon if he is g~anted the relief he seeks. MEMBER DINIZIO: Ok. Well this (letter) is just not what I heard and I wanted to verify that that was not what anybody had a~reed to. MR. LAW: I believe you heard what I stated at the January hearing. MEMBER DINIZIO: Ok. That's all I have. Thank you. CItAIRiVlAN: Member Tortora? MEMBER TORTORA: Let's go back to the principal-accessory. Originally you had commented you wanted us to make a determination for dedication on what would be the original structure. Mr. Kevin Law: Correct. Member Tortora: Tonight you mentioned that if a height variance was going to be needed on the Lane cottage and also on the Caretaker cottage, are you saying that those would then become also principal structures? Mr. Kevin Law: No~, I'm not trying to be ( ). What I was trying to do 'was lay out is perhaps an option for the board. You know, we presented our case and I know the board can't make a decision until the Seqra determination. That's what we're hoping for uext month. We were looking for, yes the designation of the vacation home as the principal ~se, and principal building. And then we seek an area variances for the other accessory, or park the word accessory for a minute, subordinate buildings that also contain dwelling units or habitable quarters. It wasn't clear from, yet from the board, if you were ~oing to treat those buildings as accessory b~Hldings or if you were simply going to grant the area variances which, i believe the board has the authority for. Member Tortora: Use variances or area variances. Page 45 - Transcript of Hearings Reg~dar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Kevin Law: Excuse me. Member Tortora: You're applying for use variances. Mr Kevin Law: No, no. Member Tortora: Yes. Mr. Kevin Law: Area variances. This is what we spent a good deal of time talking in general. Member Torzora: On the Lane cottage. Mr. Kevin Law: Yes Member Tortora: It says use variance. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Where does it say use variances Lydia. Member Tortora: Right here. Mr. Kevin Law: That was on a earlier chart and since then we've spent the month of January talking about the interpretation for area variances for those. Secretary Linda Kowalski: This was going back To November and it's been changed several times. Mr. t(evin Law: You're correct. Member Tortora: Because we were around with that and where are Mr. Kevin Law: You're absolutely right and the point I was trying to make is this is that. If there are aceessory buildings, then this 12 foot heigt~t [imitation, then we'll need a height variance as well, for that to get increased height. However, if the board was jus~ simply granting us sn area variance zo allow habitable quarters in the subordinate buildings, perhaps we could go as far as 35 feet. This is for getting a variance which is permitted under the code, and then perhaps we don't need the height variance as well. But that was up ~.o the board to decide and I wasn't sure which way you were leaning, if any way ye~. Member Tortora: You jus~ kind of throw me this evening with it. Mr. Kevin Law: You're absolutely correct. I just tried ~o [ay ou~ another option for the Town and the board then. Chairman: Mr. Doyen, no questions. We tha~mk you Mr. Law. We'll see what genera~es about the hearing. Page 46 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7~ 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Kevin Law: Great, again I thank the board for all the time it's allowed. Mr. Thompson and ~ on behalf of Mr. Bacon. As I said, I know- it's a very- unique project and a very challenging project and a very compie× project and we tried to present it in a understandable way, we thank the board for it's time. Again, I'd just like to reserve the right to respond to any comments that may be made tonight and to respond in writing to the board, if the board chooses to close the Public Hearing tonight. Thank you very much. Chairman: Thank you. Before we go into any other, members of the community I just want to read this letter from E. Davies Allan. It says. Dear Sir, it's addressed to me. I've attempted to follow the topic of Robin's Island in local periodicals and most recently read a commentary of your meeting held earlier this month. It's dated 1/~2/96. As a native of this area, and a businessman for 30 years, I've had ample opportunity to watch at times --and at times participate in-- various bi~ money projects on the East End of both Forks. Some were never completed leaving contractors and municipality skeptical. Others have been completed and the final project leaves us, all the less than enamored. Still other projects we have find to be an asse[, both in appearance and in tax dollars earned by the Town. Such is the case 'with the current status of Robin's island. Years ago ! asked to visit the Island on the request of the perspective foreign purchaser. Later, another visit on the behest of a West Coast magnet. We all know that Suffolk County struggles with the ownership possibility as well. Bottom line I feet, we all are better off than imagined. Mr. Bacon brings us the best of all worlds. The property remains on the Tax Rolls with prospect of no more than a handful of kids to go to local schools. Mr. Bacon's ambitions are particularly modest when we take into account the vast acres he owns. Furthermore, IVlr. Bacon has generated a serious influx of cash for the folks who live here through payrolls and local purchases. Most important lzis checks don't bounce, because many people would be disappointed if Mr. Bacon found his island pursuizs to be, to much of a hassle, and he found a friendlier atmosphere say-lng, the Chesapeake or South Carolina. Whatever, we might be inclined to take his money, he might be inclined to take his money there, and cell the Island to Suffolk County for a park. An agency that can't take care of what it has already. Immediately we would see the Island come off the Tax Rolls and an influx of five million people scrambling for the opportunity- to trample Robin's Island terrain. Frank at the Marina near the Town ramp, would like more money selling tee shirts and Robin's island key chains than fixing outboards. Page 47 ~ Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Fenton, a local critic would want to move out of Town because his taxes went up to compensate for the loss of l~obin's Island taxes when owned privately. Vehicle and boat traffic would be a source of ire and an ire of many others. There's probably a notion that folks with slot of money To spend should be viewed with askance. From w'hat I see, Mr. Bacon is an exception, and we should be a bit more willing to take him for what we see of him. Let's give him a chance, not scare him away. Yours truly. I thank you. We'll now go on to anybody else that would Hke to speak in favor of this project. Yes Madam. Mrs. Joan Robbins: IVly name is Joan Robbins. I live in New Suffolk. My husband and I have been a resident of New Suffolk for 4]. years, and we care about Robins Island and we care quite slot. We would be very happy To see most of the Islssad preserved. A better word conserve by the people who know how to do it, a trlajor conservancy. We have no objection whatever to Mr. Bacon the owner, millionaire, having his castle, and we'll be extremely grstified to see the Lane house completed and the Mackay house Everything Mr. Bacon has done in the Hamlet of New Suffolk that we have been able to see, is of the highest quality of material and workmanship, and I think that is no small consideration considering the years of soil neglect by the previous owners. Both of the IsLand and New Suffolk lots. The process of rehabilitating the Island has cause and will continue to cause, some inconvenience i13 New Suffolk, but it not a ( ) on the hiconvenien~ that we would suffer if the Island was fully developed, and [ hope you bear that in mind. Mr. Bacon has demonstrated not only a willingness but a desire to accommodate any concerns that we might have in New Suffolk, and we believe that we could work out any problems in the future. After all, the .~sLand is part of New Suffolk. The end effect on our tax base remsins to be seen. But we believe and I'm speaking for my husband and myself, that it's more likely to be positive, than negative. Mr. Bacon plans do not remove it entirety from the fax base and the buildings as planned will certaint~r generate taxes without accruing a large service cause that full developmen~ would inevitably bring. The Island historically has pretty much taken care of it own, and we remember decades ago sitting in our dining room of a morning and watching Bob Pugsley who was the Island's boat captain for many, many years, walk the caretaker's small child. Fie came up from the boat slip, up Third Street, and across the ball field to the school. The Island will prowde its ow~ services and the island is no stranger To hunting, legal or otherwise. Its identity as a P~ge 48 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals private game preserve is part of its history and why should we not object. We in our Hamlet and in the Town should consider ou~-selves fortunate to have at tong last an opportunity to have responsible management of the Island for future generations~ while retaining some private ownership equally responsible. Please bear the future in mind as you will on Mr. Bacon application. Sincerely, and my husband and ! have sig~ned it. Informally, I think the Island has fallen in a tub of butter and we better make sure to keep it that way. Chairman: Thank you, thank you very much. Is there anyone else that would like to speak in favor? Anybody like to speak against? Mr. Fenton. Joseph Fenton, Esq.: What if you want to speak in favor and against. Chairman: That's fine. Mr. Fenton: I'm a little bit at a disadvantage because we had a snowstorm when this response came in. Ch~irman: Right. Mr. Joseph Fenton: And I had to go to Philadelphia for three days and I just got back. ! haven't had a chance to speak to as many people as spoke to me before. I did get some initial reaction to some o~ the contempt. The principal concern was tl~at, the herd of deer that nature maybe for a thousand years was breeding and that numbered in the hundreds, and that its proposed or perhaps has already happened, reduced to 10 or 15 animals, and there were comments made to me. This may be a preserve but the number of animals that were eliminated, that perhaps some people think it's a slaughter house, it's not a preserve. Words like conservancy and preserve don't jive with what's happened to this deer herd. Chairman: ! never heard the figure. Mr. Joseph Fenton: Some of the comments were, had even more feeling than that. Chairman: Could I just say something to you, Sir, to clear the record. ! have no idea of what the total population was at the time that Mr. Bacon bought the Island; Mr. Joseph Fenton: It was too high probably. Chairman: OK, correct. We were told when we were over there, it was about 83 or 85, ok. we were told that that was going to he cut approximately 50% based upon the longevity of the animals that were Page 49 - Transcript of Hearings Reg~tiar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals evaluated, all right. I never heard the figure of 10 to 15. I mean, maybe that could be cleared. Mr. Joseph Fenton: It was in the memorandum that you received. Chairman: OK, I was told half of that population when I was there on December 7. Mr. Joseph Fenton: I'm recounting to you. Chairman: Right Mr. Joseph Fenton: I go hunting and fishing. I think the preserve To me and according ~o the dictionary, a preserve according co the dictionary is To keep or save from injury or destruction, to defend from evil zo save, co keep in the same state, to uphold sustained guard, to save from decay to prevent in that order. The concept is that not everybody is delighted with reducing the herd from 10 to 15 now. I think he has a right ~o. Chairman: Right Mr. Joseph Fenton: But that doesn't mean everybody is happy about it. One person said it's Dachau for deer, that it's not sportsmanship. You try To encourage the herd, and if nature spent probably a thousand years of breeding the herd, some of them died off because they were weak and so the strongest ones survive. In a year or two that's gone. I mean, there was no physical exam given zo these survivors, and I can understand his motivation. I think, I touched on it and I think there is a concern about ticks and Lyme disease and maybe this is overkill. Sportsmen that I know who go hunting were upset when they found this out. Now I haven't had an opportunity because I was in Pl~iladelphia and because we had a snowstorm when this first came in. But there is a comment that's, you know, everything isn't grand, everything isn't wonderful. I was in favor of an individual buying Robins Island, and I think my friends in New Suffolk know that. I defended, I thought that this was the best thing that could possibly happen. But everything may not be peaches and cream, and I think he may have the right To, but that doesn't mean everybody's happy about it. Chairmsn: I just want ~o say that I, we do not have the power zo control the amount of -. Mr. Joseph Fenton: I know that. Mr. Chairman: You're certainly welcome to speak, but we're getting awry o[ the --_ Page 50 - Transcript of Hearings Reg%dar Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southotd Town Board of Appeals Mr. Joseph Fenton: And the same thing is true of the heliport. I mean, that's not your bag. This is the town board. This is a DOT and I hope that there will be public hearing with respect to it. Chairman: I should point out to you -. Member Dinizio: (interrupting) Can I comment? Chairman: No, I will first, then you can, if you don't mind. Member Dinizio: OK Chairman: The heliport in my opinion is an extremely important thing to be placed on tl~is island. I am a member of a Rescue Squad and when we have to get someone off this Island, it's extremely important to have. Mr. Joseph Fenton: It should be some regulation m-ith respect to, the flight path, with respect to the danger to, depending on the flight path. The danger to the boating people who are at the North end of the Island and you know what's, that fills up. Chairman: But that's why the helipad, I think, is scheduled to be, relatively in the center. Mr. Joseph Fenton: I understand but are they going to come over to New Suffolk. Are they going to come over there - carte blanc is not the way to go. There has to be some understanding of some, what it is. This is not a landing and take off pad. This was a quiet bucolic palette~ and that's what he wanted and that's what he bought and that's, we understood was where we were going. I'm not sure that's the case, and I don't know what happens to property value. You try to sell your house now, and this fellow Mr. Allen wrote a very nice letter but I understand that Mr. Allen owns the landing craft that he rents to Mr. Bacon. So, he has some connection here, and naturally he would say what he said about him. I'm not blooping. I've been at it too long. I've been here all my life. I have grandchildren, three of them living close by and going to school. I'm not about to leave here. As far as taxes are concerned. My taxes are 50 times what they were in 1948. I was doing a Hilary Clinton the other day. I was getting rid of some files and one of them was a ~948 file. I went through it and there was a bill. Property soared to ~vhat I have now. The taxes were $117.00. That's what happened. Part of it is inflation because a 1948 dollar is now worth a nickel. But some of it is, you know more government, more whatever. But, I'm here for the duration and I'm pleased that an individual bought it. I want the taxes to continue because whatever taxes Mr. Bacon doesn:t pay, the rest of us m-ill. I apparently misunderstood what Mr. Law said. I think you'll have an opportunity to look at that transcript and see what he said, and you heard it and I heard it, or thought i did, and we'll see what the transcript says. Page 51 - Transcript of Hearings ttegular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southotd Town Board of Appeals Chairmszl: You're very welcome, Mr. Fenton, writing. Mr. Joseph Fenton: I know that. Chairman: We're going to leave the hearing transcript open for two weeks assuming we have the votes to do that. Mr. Joseph Fenton: Whatever comments there are, there are. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Well not the hearing, the written (ret: open for [wo weeks). Chsdrman: I meant the written portion of Mr. Joseph Fenton: There is no reason why the people who are interested fn Robins Island because they are viewing it every day sad they know what it was. I remember when my father and 1~. J. Deerborn al~d Jim Norris was going to buy it for $200,000.00 in the thirties, and I went over there looking at it with them. It's an obviously umque property. I'd like to see it preserved. I'm not sure anything that is being done is preservation. I'm not sure that the experts really know everything that they claim to know about. They cleaned out all the brush and now there is no place for the animals ~o nest, so they are bringing in Christmas trees to replace some of that, so there is a place for nesting. At least that's what I've been told. I don't know if that's the case. But to just say everything is wonderful and everything is great. "Isn't he ~o-rand?" It's |ike Emperor's new clothes. You just have to sit back and make sure that --. What's happened to the deer population in the name of euvironment doesn't evolve into something else which would ( ) the entire hour. There are a number of issues that height raised. There was a question of, backing oil spill and I read what comment was made about that. That there hasn't been an oil spill of this character in Eastern Long Island. I don't know how pertinent that is because we had it on the 19th. We had a 93000 oil spill on the Sound. 93,000 barrels. I would like to be sure that we don't have one. That's wh.v I, and [ know you disagree with me -. Chairman: I don't disagree. Mr. Joseph Fenton: Well no, [ just thought Lilco was the way %o go. Chairman: Oh Lilco. Mr. Joseph Fenton: Because they can pull a cable through and they won't disturb the Bay bottom and they can jack that thing right through, two or three feet under the bottom of the Bay and without any trouble. It's an alternative and there is less chance of an oil spill because there is less oil needed. The great base, I don't know. You're a governmental agency and I don't know if this whole generation is to way for this government to enrich people because if Page 52 - Transcript of Hearings Reguler Meeting ~ February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals five or ten percent of the people that buy electricity, the price for the rest of us has got to go up. That's how it works. So, the environmental statement did not address the possibility of Lilco being used and I think it should~ and not just a deprecating statement that Fenton thinks that New Suffolk people gets cheaper electricity. I never said that, and I don't mean to be testy. I understand what he's trying to accomplish here and I'm for it. I just have some questions and some of them aren*t even mine. Some of my friends who make the comments and who are reluctant to come up here and say what they think. Either by, because they are afraid of retaliation which is silly-, or because they are not the kind of people who will stand up and say what they think. But they certainly say- it, and some of the people who are very happy- with what's happening there. Maybe when they- start hearing helicopter's coming over, they may not be so happy down 'the road. The time to talk about it is now and not later. Like Mrs. McGowan had the problem with her property- in New Suffolk. She waited too long, and i think now is the time for people to go and say what concerns them, and ask the questions, and that's how the Democratic system is supposed to work. If it's a matter of getting people to write letters, I don't know if that means anything. You know what letters are. You can make your own judgment. You can make up your minds. You can see the ( ). I'm sure that it's going to be a lovely result, but I don't think that we're going to scare them away by asking questions. I mean Mr. Allen thinks so but I don't think that's what happen. He has too many- invested in this. This is what he wants and he should have it. But that doesn't mean everything. That's all I have to say at this point. Chairman: Thank you, Sir. Mr. Joseph Fenton: I appreciate the fact that you permitted me a period of time in which to submit anything. I'm not sure i'll take advan[age of it but we'll see. Member Dinizio: I'd just like to comment on the deer. Part of this whole thing because I'm not a hunter. I never shot a shoran before in my life. Never went out to the woods. Not by any feeling or any commitment on my part. It's just that I choose to occupy my time Jn other ways. But when we went over there on the inspection, there was one thing that was certainly striking to me. That it didn't hit home until I actually asked the question~ which was, "How could i walk through that woods?" T~his wooded Island that you would think it would look like that when you fly over an airplane. You can walk just about anywhere on that Island without getting so much as a scratch from a brier or having to move a branch and you know, it just was so easy- to get around there. It didn't dawn on me until I asked a question as to the reason, why that would be. Page 53 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals I live near Moore's Woods and you can't walk through - Moore's Woods unless someone clears it and it didn't appear To me tl~at this was cleared. I guess from what I understand the deer eat everything in sight, up to about five or six feet as I understand it. Certainly, Mr. Fenton, your comment is harsh in that, p-ou paint a picture of butchery and I see it the opposite. These deer, I've hit three deer with my car on Shelter Island. These deer have no place to go. These deer particularly on Robin's Island was a refuge for them. Yes [ agree, but they overstayed their welcome and certainly overpopulated the Island. I don't know to what extent. I have no idea. However, I believe that a favor is done to the healthy deer To try To control that population. I don't know what the right number for a 400 acre lot, you know. Island should be, I have no idea, but I do know that what I saw. The harm done to that Island and to the other resources of that Island, you know. Where the birds may live or where ducks, whatever. Squirrels and skunks and whatever else is on that Island cer~ainiy couldn't live there in a way that they would normally in a wooded area, because there was no wooded area under a canopy of Trees. I wanted to clear that and make it clear. I don't see your way Mr. Fenton. I see it quite the opposite way and from my view, it was personally being out on the Island and seeing the devastation that was caused by deer. That's all I have to say. Chairman: Mr. Law. Mr. Kevin Law-: May I just briefly. I wan~ to thank Mr. Fenton for coming clown again and sharing his commen~s and concerns. We appreciated it last month. We tried To address his concerns. I thought he raised a couple of good questions the last time. We tried to address them. We believe we did adequately and I also want to thank him for lending his support to the plan. I didn't hear that in January and I'm glad he has expressed that tonight and I appreciate Mr. Fenton, we do. Just briefly, he raises good questions on the Helipad. Just again, if you didn't get a change to read it in our response, this is the process. Mr. Fenton wilt have another opportunity to share some concerns and comments on that. We are in the process of preparing FAA notice of air space determination. They will review that. We then will seek the request of the Southold Town Board to --. We'll have plans before this Town board. The only thing the Town board has to do. They send it up to the New York State Department of Transportation Commissioner to see if it complies with State DOT ( ) and if the helicopter and the sea plane landing area. are adequate in terms of their standards. The DOT will then tell the Town. Yes, these plans do meet our specs and requirement and so there will be an opportunity to be heard on that Helipad issue. Page 54 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7~, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals As for the oil spill and cable underneath the g~onnd. The most recent experiment with cables underneath the ground, Long [aland Sound~ Iroguis gas Hue from Westchester County into Commack Long Island. That plan from what I understand, has been experiences a lot of problems. They are going through law suits right now because the devastation it did to the Agriculture and the Bay bottom destruction. I think Connecticut again have been contemplating if they haven't already sued the contractors who h~stalled those cables. So there is significant problems not to mention the cost of bringing cables underneath the Bay. Chairman: Can I just ask you a question about that Mr. Lam-? Mr. Iqea-in Law: Sure. Chairman: When that oH truck is brought over in that small LST, is there any vehicles on the landing ship craft at the time. Or is that the only vehicle that's brought over at the time. Mr. Iievin Law: As far as I know, Jerry, it's the only vehicle on there. Chairman: Right. Mr. !(evin Law: And we have a meeting scheduled in a couple of weeks with the Health Department to go over, begin proper fuel storage plans and we knew we will be complying, and have to comply ~nd exceed Suffolk County Health Department regulations for storage of the fuel that we have over there. The last thing just on, I'll be quiet is just. On the deer. Jim (Thompson) maybe could have said this better. I believe there was a typo in our response. We're getting that out because we were trying to get it to the beard by last Friday, and I think it was on the second, to the second last page; They may have been a typo in there. I think there are mere deer than 10 to 15. I think maybe Jim maybe, 30 to 35 or ~0 to 25. Again~ I just want to close and again thank Mr. Fenton for coming down and sharing his comments and concerns. I think we adequately addressed them and i~ not then, I believe i just did. Thank you. Chairman: Jim, do you want to talk? Mr. Jim Thompson: I would like to refine that because the factual information and there is a t)~po in there. The factual information and g~idance from Wildlife Biologist Dr. Aaron Mu!leu from University at ithaca, New York State DEC, and other experts that were brought in from across the country indicate that, the goal of the healthy and sustainable Deer herd on Robin's Island should be targeted towards the population of 20 to 25 animals. If the vegetated community on the Island was in a healthy and viable condition, and unfortunately as much as I respect Mr. Fenton and other people's emotional Page 55 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - February 7, 1996 Southold Town Board of Appeals approach to ecology and to environmental science. What we're dealing with here is emotional tunnel vision, and the selection of an individual animal or species witkin a vegetated communities or the animal community, does no'~ constitute a viable approach to ecology. We have a responsibility for a piece of property that been designated a critical environmental area under Suffolk County Leg-islation, and one of the reasons it's a critical environmental area is one of the most important things about it, is the unique vegetated community which over the last decade it's been virtually destroyed by Deer predation of vegetation, and frankly I regret [he fact that I didn't have the opportunity to meet Mr. Fenton in 1994 alad invite him to help me personally oury carcasses of Winter starved Deer that were rotting literally inside buildings where they were trying to find shelter. It's a gross inhumane and painful existence. To starve animals to death because they are in that kind of stress condition. I personally buried 40 animals out there in the Sprflag of 1994. I would never condone that kind of cruel abuse to anything that lives on this Planet, and it will not be allowed to happen again. Chairman: Thank you, ok. If there is anything that the board would ~ike to say before we close the hearing to public comment? No. Seeing no hands again I would like to thank everybody here that is interested in this project. Members of the Community, we appreciate your commen~s. We also wish you safe home and I'd Like to make a motion closing the oral part of the hearing. We will leave the over-ail written portion of it opened for approximately for two weeks. Secretary Linda Kowalski: We have to be more specific and give a date. February 20th. Would that be two weeks. Chairman: Yes. February 24. Secretary Linda Kowalski: That's 26 days. Chairman: Make it February 24th. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Excuse me, ]9 days. Member Dinizio: Are we going to meet then? SecreTary Linda Kowalski: No. Chairman: No, we're just going to close the oral hearing--. Secretary Linda Kowalski: So it wilt be February ~4 (for the end of the written, entire record). Chairman: So if anyone writes to us wha~ will happen, Mr. Law, if someone writes ~o us or Mr. Fenton, we wilt then circulate the letter to the other par~y and then we'll allow them to come back with information. ~age 56 - Transcript of ]tearil~gs Regular Meetin~ - February 7, 1996 Seuthold Town Board of Appeals Secretary Linds Kowalski: I jusi wanted to ask another Thing. Kevin was going to give a chart with the length and width of the building and stories, ok. Mr. Kevln Law: You'll have it ~omorrow. Secretary Li~lda Kowalski: Thank you. Chairmsn: And you're leaving with us. Mr. Kevi~ Law: Anything you require or desire. Chairman: Just these two. Of course we would love to have these, if you've seen the size of our office, there would be no way. So again, closing tile hearing for any oral testimony at this point, and leaving the hearing transcript open for, written in till the 24 of F~bruary. All in favor. Mr. Kevin Law: Thank you very much. Typed by Noreen Frey from tape recordings. R=CEIYmD AND FILED BY THE S©UTHOLD T©WN Town CI~rk, Tov,m of Southold