Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-01/10/1996 HEARING TRANSCRIPT OF HEARINGS JANUARY 10, 1996 ZBA MEETING Prepared by Noreen Frey 7:30 p.m. Appl. No,. 4356 - MARTIN and CHRISTINE KOSMYNKA. This ~s a request, based upon the December 6, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, in which applicant was denied a btzilding permit To conszruet an accessory ~arage building in the required front yard at less than 35 feet, Location of Property: 1985 Pine Tree Road, Cutchogue, NY; County Tax Map No. 1000-98-1-11.2. This parcel consists of a size under 20,000 sq. ft., and the principal front yard setback is shown under Article XXIV, Section 100-244B. Chairman: I have two letters in the file in favor of k, and one letter against the application. I have a copy of the Survey indicating the approximate placement of the house which is about 98 feet from Pine Tree Road. The applicant is proposing a garage within 19 feet of Pine Tree Road, and the garage is be approximately 24 by 24. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. [s there someone that would like to be heard? How do you do Sir. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I'm the applicant. Chairman: OK, stand up there. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I have some other surveys to give you. Chairman: Oh, great. Thank you. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: My address is 1985 Pine Tree Road. Chairman: Oh, Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I think I wrote that wrong. My name is Martin Kosmynka. What you have in front of you is actually, it shows everything that's on the lot including the pool, the well and the dry well that's there. The reason why I hate to pu~ this garage where it is, is tbat I have a logistical problem. I have no other place else to put the garage. If I was, I can't put it back of the house because ] have the creek. I can't put it on the side of my Page 2 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript $outhold Town Board of Appeals house because I won't meet the side yard setbacks. In order to put it in front of my house and go to a 35 front yard setback, I would be hitting that drywell that's there. The drywall is requi~ed to be there because the DEC required that t contain all the water so did the Board of Trustees, contain ail the water in the front of my lot including the roof drainage, and it had to be 50 foot separation, approximately, from the cesspool and from the well. So it put it smack in the center of the lot. Basically, the drywells ara two, four by ten foot drains that are there. So Lf I tried to go 35 feet forward with the garage, I'd be in the drywell, and I can't go forward in front of that. That would be with the cesspool. So, I don't know where else to put it. Chairman: This is a one story garage that you're proposing. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Yes Chairman: Not to exceed approximately 12 feet in height or something like that. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: 18 feet is Town Code. A Build_Lng Code t should say. Chairman: What would the upstairs be used for, storage? Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Basically, I have no intention of. tt would be a one story building. If you saw my house. I built my house as a Victorian house. I plan on building the garage with a gambrel roof. It would blend in the area. I also intend on screen~g the front of the property with arborvitaes and t would make it a covenant as part of the approval of it. $o the other thing I could say is my lot basically conforms with most of the lots in the area. I mean, I have a narrow front footage which is 53 foot footage. My neighbor just to the west of me, has~ I think it's 64 I can't, somewhere in there. I'm in the old C Zoning. And just a neighbor who has a bigger lot just to the right of me, his garage is in front of .his house but he has bigger property. Chairman: OK Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I don't .know what else I can add to it. Other than that, i don't know where to put my garage. Chairman: Ok, ~we'll --. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: It actually, and also the dry well is at the lowest point of the whole lot, there. Thank you. Chairman: OK. Just before you leave, Bob do you want to go into this first. Member Villa: Well, I have problems with it being only 19 feet from the road because there is nothing else on that street that's that close, that I could see. i drove up and down and everything seems Page 3 January 10, 1996 Public Hesring Transcrip~ Southold Town Board of Appeals ro be set back. Now, the code was changed a while back zo allow building like ttfis in the front yard as a right, provided they meez the setback requirements. Now, there is no trees there, and you're saying the drywelt. It's a simple matter ro move the dryweLl five feet or ten feet, whatever it had ro be closer ro the Southerly properzy Hne ro free that garage. In fact if you continue those lines the way you have the garage drawn there, yon would miss that drywelI anyway. So I can't really see why you shouldn't stick to 35 feet with your setback. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Well I s~aied this off as best I could. The scale was 1 per 40. From the corner where I'm putting that garage, ro that dry,ell. Now, those rings are four by ten foot. Those are four foot high by ten foot wide rings, two rings side by side beoause the calculation was ro pick it up all the front yard and the roof. Member Villa: Not side by side. They are on top of each other. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: No, I tlfink side by side because we were contending with ground water there. The ground water is down about, I think ten feet down there, fourteen feet. I'm nor sure if they stacked it because I have a have a shower well there. I think she perked up into the dry well when we did it. You know, that became the problem, how do you, where do you, either way. I'm zen feet this way. It's rwenw feet consisting of these rings. Member Villa: It doesn't show them side by side, it shows them stacked. Mr. Martin KosmTy-nka: Well actually I think that's showing as a attaehed basin because I had ro have an attached basin m the driveway ro piek up the run off on the road. I think the snow might have covered it, if you were over there today. I tried ro poke it Chairman: I was over right after we goz the application. Mr, Martin Kosmynka: You saw it when she come around. She~s a~ the low poinf right past that parking area. And the other thing became in an area, backing it our which. Chairman: Yes Mr. Martin Kosmy~fira: If I pur it even over there, then I'd be undermining it, 'and I also have it all piped in from all. A~ofun from all the roof drainages, which is ail piped in. That distances is, what is it, 50, 70 something feet. Fifty feet from there. Sixty feet in some csses. I have to do aiot of tearing out. Member Villa: The Judges feel that it sets such a precedent for that whole block, because anybody else can come in and ask for a garage in there front yard, and when you establish 19 feet you going to get them ali 19 feet, and then you build yourself a corridor kn there, Page 4 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals instead of having a little bit of open site. You'll got everything jammed up ag~ainst the road which is. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Welt I think because I htdld my house in 1992 and most of that development had already been built. I had to adhere to new standards and that's the reason why that dry well got put in place. I mean, normally I don't know anybody else on my block that had to contend with the DEC and the Board of Trustees containment of water on the site. That's the reason why all that's in there, and that position of that dry well. That's dictated where it had to be positioned. Now they say, I don't know what the code reads. But I don't think you can build a structure within 10 feet of a dry well. I know you can't do it on a cesspool, i dontt know about a dry well. Member Villa; You don't have a base~ you're not having a basement in this anyway. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: No, no Chairman: Can i just ask? Which way are you going to open the doors. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I'd be backing it out. It would be a side Chairman: Side entrance ok. So it would he facing the South side Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Correct, and we'd be backing right into that driveway area that's already there. Chairman: I see Member Tortora: What are the overall dimensions? Mr. Martin Kosmynka: 24 By 24 Chairman; OK, Jim Member Dinizio: I don't know what. i mean ,the code is, you know principal setbacks. I mean, I see other places here in the front yard you could put it. Push it back a little bit without. Maybe you need a variance on the side yard. It certainly would be less intrusive to the neighborhood. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Well where, I don't know. Member Tortora: Welt, you're building a 24 by 26 foot structure. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: 24 by 24 Member Di¢fizio: 24, ! mean you could put where it say's SB on this Page 5 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals : Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Yes Member Dinizio: On that corner, what would that be? The Southwest corner of your driveway now. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: So you want to put it to the opposite side. Member Dinizio: I'm not going to ask you to put it an[ywchere. I'm just considering that. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Look, I mean, I don't really want to be in front of the board. I just didn't know. If I could eonform~ I would gladly be conforming. Member Dinizio: Right. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I mean, I built a beautiful house there. It's not a question of, it's just logistics. I don't know where to do it. Member Dinizio: Well, I mean just looking at the survey and looking at the property. I use my imagination a little bit. I could probably, you know. I may have to have the doors facing the read but I certainly, I mean I consider what I want this garage for, assuming that I want to keep my car in there and keep it protected. Having the doors face the road is not such a bad thing. Certainly, you would be allowed to have it if you think you could fit it in that area. So, you're asking for aiot 19 feet. I guess that's what I'm saying. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Bring it over to here. Member Dinizio: Perhaps Mr. Martin Kosmynka: But then I'd still be pushing it up and still be encroaching onto the side yard plus the drive plus the dry well. Member Dilzizio: Perhaps Member Villa: There is enough space between there that you could fit this in a number of different places wouldn't have a problem. Chairman: Why don't you do this Mr. Kosmynka. We'H finish this round and see if anybody wants to talk. But I want you to think and we'll recess the hearing for a little while. See iff you could figure out another spot and rather than recess it tonight for another hearing date: maybe there is sometlfing else you can do toward the end. Do you have any discussion Mrs. Tortora. Member Tortora: (Inaudible) Cbairrnsn: So we'll see what happens. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: OK Page 6 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: We won't close it right away and this way if you need paper, we'll give you paper if you want. We'll give you a rule too, a measured rule if you want to play around with it. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: All right Chairman: ' Is there anyone else that wants to speak in favor of this application? Mr. Peters. Mr. William Peters: Yes, my name is William Peters. I live diagonally across the property in question, and we have absolutely no objection to this garage. In fact, I kind of helped _him lay it out visually. We been here since 1964, at first summer residents. At that time, that whole Nassau Farms area was primarily a summer' community. We've been retired for 16 years and I've been a year round resident for 16 years and we've watched the community gradually change from summer to year round residents, The last three houses that were built on Pine Tree Road, one of which is in question~, have been houses that have very much enhanced the neighborhood, and we feet that Mr. Kosmynka is not goh~g to degrade what he did with any kind of garage. We are in favor of what he wants to do. Chairman: Good Mr. William Peters: We feel it's a good place to put the garage. Chairman: Great. Thank you, Sir. is there anybody- else that would like to speak in favor? Sir, Oh I'm sorry Madam. Mrs. Edna Rothleder: Edna Rothieder and I also am a neighbor of, across the road from Mr. Kosmynka house, and I am vemy- much aware of the problems that he has. Very small size of the tot and I think he's got to have a place to keep his car, and I'm in favor of whatever he can work out. Chairman: Great. Thank you very much. Sir Mr. Thomas Cottrelh I want to speak against the application Chairman: Yes surely-. Just use the mike and state your name if you would. Mr. Thomas Cottrelh My name is Thomas Cottretl. I own the property on the west side of Pine Tree Road, directly across from the property that you have the plot out here. Chairman: Yes Mr. Thomas Cottrell: Mr. Kosmynka said that the scale on this was one to forty. I read, one to thirty and if you use a rule you can see that there is a great of room to put a garage even 35 feet back from the road, which by the -way is where he's drawing on here. also would point out, the ~4 foot garage is essentially half the .~-~ Page 7 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals width of the front line of the property. So, ~9 feet back from the road, and half the width of the property is. the most opposing out of character structure that anybody could build there. When Mr Kosmynka~ who is a builder planned this house on this property only s few years ago, he has enough experience and ample advise because he had to get many variances on his property, to plan the whole structure. House, garage, and everything that went along with it. The plots that you have here don't show the other structure's that he's built on the property. There are sheds on the side and in the back. I don't think this is an adequate representation of his proposal. I think it's misleading and I don't think the 19 foot setback is at all appropriate to Pine Tree Road. Chairman: Thank you Mr. Thomas Cottretl: I too am a year round resident of Cutchogue but I do not live in this house now, but I did before. Chairman: Thank you, Sir. OK, so is that all right with you. Are you going to kick it around a little. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Well, I mean, I'm really just going to go back and check with my engineer and actually check with. I don't want to s~ar~ stirring the pot. But I think, I would be open to any suggestions the board has on where to position this. I realty would. Chsirman: We don't care as long as it's not more than 19 feet. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Well, if I shrunk the garage if it's 20. I mean, if I could, the hardship would be. Chairman: And I'm not speaking for the board. By the way, when I built this, there was no variances required to built this house. I me~ the C zoning. Chairman: Right Mr. Martin Kosmynka: All the side yard, rear yard, everything. Chairman: There were permits needed. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: It was an updated on permits requirement and that's it. So, give me time and I'll go back and redesign this or refig~ure it. Chairman: You can do it tonight or we can hold it over till next meeting. You certainly can't built it tl~is time of year anyway. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I'm not looking to built it now. Not at all. Chairman: Why don't we just --. Member Villa: If he finds that he can put it back 35 feet he doesn't have to come back. Page 8 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: That is correct. Mr, Martin Kosmynka: I really don't. Other than trying to rip out the whole front of my property which I'd have to do. Chairman: Right Mr. Martin Kosmynka: And try to relocate those wells, and I'd probably have to contact the Health Department. All that I'm telling them,is that I'm doing a shift. Chairman: Let's Mr. Martin Kosmy~ka: Then it gets into a whole mishmash. Chairman: If you have a depression where the dry well is, then you have the advantage of as Mr. Dinizio said, of either operaing it to the waterside and come in that way, with the automobiles putting it to the road side, which we rather not see but, if worse comes to worse that may be a possibility. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I truly want to do a side yard. I think esthetically, the house I built there and you know. Chairman: You need a two car garage. Do you have to have two openings ? Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Preferable, if I'm going to spend the money, I'd like to get both cars in th.at garage. Chairman: OK, well Member Villa: That was pointed out. You know, you have a 24 foot structure. That's haif the width of your lot. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: But that's, you know. Alot of these lots are 60. Alot of these lots are 60, that's how come ] gave you the map. Alot of these lots are 60 footers. Member Villa: Well, that doesn't make any difference. I mean, you're just saying that you got an imposing structure going there. If you look at your *server your showing 93 feet from the well to the cesspool. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Right Member Villa: From the front corner. Now you go back 19 feet and you go back another 24, that's only 43 feet back. That gd'ves you 50 feet between the back of your garage and your cesspool. You can go back that other !9 feet and still be 33 feet to the nearest cesspool. You have plenty of room over there. Mr~ Martin Kosmynka: I think the question became more of the garage with relationship again, than the drywetl. Page 9 January 10, t996 Public Hearing Transcript Southotd Town Board of Appeals Member Villa: The dry well is not a big problem. The dry well can be moved. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: These are literally the size of a cesspool. They are 900 gallons. Member Villa: I realize that, and I've seen those tl~ngs moved without a problem. You dig them up and move them. Chairman: Well Member Villa: There is nothing uncommon about that. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: Well, I've never seen a 900 gailon. It's really a cesspool, its two cesspools. Chairman: See if you can work around it and be hack at the next meeting. As I said, the ground is frozen. There is nothing you can do until the end of March anyway. So you really haven't lost anything but whatever time it took. I'm not criticizing. But whatever time it took for you to come down here. Mr. Martin Kosmy~ka: Is there a workshop I can go in and discuss tt~is and work through with the board. You can contact one member if they individual want to work with you. Chairman: You could contact one member if they want individually work with you on it. Is anybody want to individually work. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I'm not against putting it 35 feet. I just don't knew where to do it. Chairman: Yes, Does anyone want to work with this Gentlemen? Member Villa: Not when it's knee deep in snow. Member Torto~a: What about the cesspools. Chairman: Well, the cesspools are existing. Member Tortora: Bob, why don't you. Member Villa: I'H be glad to be with you, on it once the thing is accessible. Mr. Martin Kosmynka: t appreciate it. Member Vii]a: No problem. Chairman: All right Mr. Martin Kosmynka: I'I1 call you tomorrow. Member Villa: You better be out there with your blow dryer. Page 10 January 10~ 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: OK, hearing no further comment, I'll make a motion recessing the hearing in the next scheduled hearing. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Febrdary 7 Chairman: All in favor. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Thank you Chairman: Thank you very much for coming. Page I1 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeai~ 7:33 p.m. Appl. No. 4357 MARGARITE RUSSELL. This is an appeal based upon the December 8, 1995 Notice of Disapproval from the Building Inspector in which applicant was dehied permission to re-construct one-family dwelling destroyed by fire 6/13/95 on the grounds that Article XXIV, section 100-242B of the Zon]n~ Code reads that reconstruction of a dweEdng with a nonconformity (front yard setback) is not permitted if destroyed by fire. Subject premises contains a noncoKLforming lot area if 23,850 sq. ft. and is located in the 1{-40 Low-Density Residential Zone. Location of Property: Northerly corner of Grand Avenue at Wickham Avenue, Mattituck, NY; County Parcel ~1000-107-9-1t~ Chairman: I have a copy of the origdnai survey which was amended on August 15, 1995 indicating the approximate location of the house that was fire burned to the ground, which is approximately 11 feet from Wickham Avenue and 40 feet from Grand Avenue. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Ms. Wickham, would you like to be heard? Gaff Wick_ham Esq: Abigail Wickham of Mattituck and represent the applicant. I would like to give the board an affidavit of the posting of the sign and also, although it wasn't clear that the new section applies to this hearing. I did send notice to the adjoining property or to the property owners across the street. I'd like to submit that as well as part of the record. Chairman: Great, thank you. Gaff Wickham Esq: I have with me tonight Mrs. Stafft, Mrs. Russell's daughter, and also the architect that they have been working with Mr. Failer on the reconstruction of the house. I'd like to address the three points in the application briefly if I may. First of all, the practical difficulties or hardship that would flow from the strict application of the applicant is quite evident if you look at the property. It's proposed that we build, rebuild the house on the highest point of the property. If a greater setback than is proposed is effectually, it would put the house squarely in a flood a~ea because tile property drops off significantly right beyond the proposed location. The other problem we would have is moving the house further back, is that it would move the house very close to the garage, to the cesspool, the swimming pool and the driveway. The house is proposed and as it existed originally which is about approximately 15 or 17 feet from the garage. So to move it back any further would be right within that area, and those are ail great distance structure's. Also, to ~o further back would require, and this is one of the most important things. The elimination of some rather large Oak and Maple trees on the proper~y. In fact, right behind where the house is supposed to be relocated, just immediately to the North, most of the major trees on that property really do lend a nice atmosphere to the property, and to move the house even slightly back would require the elimination of most if not, all of those trees, other than wanting the extreme Southwest corner. I think to take those trees down would probably do more damage to the Page 12 January 10, !996 Public Hearing Transcript Southotd Town Board of Appeals property and the atmosphere of the neighborhood than to build the house where it was originally in that close setback. The second point is that the hardskip created is unique, and is not shared by all properties in these use, in the immediate vicinity because this hardship was created by a fire loss, and was a terrible tragedy. The properties close to this house do not share that same difficulty. The house on the East, as you can see from 'the survey~ is already setback, so that it's been situated, and has been for many years. The house immediately across the street is located on high flat ground and has, although that's also preexisting. It does have plenty of yard in the back should that house ever have to be moved. The Murphy's property across the other street is a much larger area.. That's a new house, and it generally conforms to the code. So I don't think, there are other properties in this area that do share this particular problem. And finally the third point is that the character of the neighborhood would not be cllanged by this application. First of ail, the house has been there, had been there for almost a 100 years. We believe it was built about 1895. The house across the street is constructed 15 feet back from the road. It's only four feet difference from what we're asking, and the house immediately to the North of that is constructed, i don't have a survey of that, but that appears to be 16 feet back with a front porch that is only 13 or 14 feet back. I'd like to submit the the board a survey of the Cooper property which is directly across the street showing the setbacks that I just mentioned. You'll note on the survey that it shows the property on Middle l~oad and Grant Boulevard, but this is the same property. Chairman: Thank you Gall Wickham Esq: In addition, on the same side of Wickham Avenue opposite Mary's Road~ specifically Tax Lot Section 107 Lot 9 Lot 3 and 2.1. Those houses, although they do not have a survey, from a measurement appear to be the same setback within a foot or two of the proposed setback here. So I do not believe that it would be out of character with the district at ail. There are numbers that you can see~ from the Tax Map, the small lots and the necessity of short setbacks, in conclusion, we'd like to stress that the house is supposed to be relocated in the best building possible on the property, and we request that the board allow the family to restore the building after the terrible tragedy that occurred to them. I would also~ although I would prefer not to submit them to the record, that the board take a look at some of the photograph's of the house as it was years ago and also fairly recently. These are family photos so I'd rather they not ~o in. Chairman: Yes Gail Wickham: But I tried to find some thai are w/thin the~ that show the setback as it was. This hedge line here, is that teehDJcal Page 23 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Hue of Wickham Avenue, so th~s was the setback. This was looking at it from Grand Avenue. Chairman: Yes Gall Wickham Esq: Pass them around. That curve there was the old cars~ was the paving and, this also shows very clearly. Chairman: Right Gall Wickham Esq: Tile street line. This is a fairly recent photo within the past few years that shows the photo and these also show the house very clearly right up close To the road, and they do try and intend [o reconstruct it in that manner. Chairman: So the actual front of the house faced Grand Avenue. When I say the front I'm talking about the front entrance. Gall Wickham Esq: there was a porch. That's where the porch was. I believe there may have been a door on Wickham also. Chairman: Yes Gall Wickham Esq: This also shows the trees that would be. They have been there a long time and they are getting quite large. Mr. Russell: The front door was set back and faced ~qickham Avenue. Chairman: Thank you. You're Mr. Fiedler, r~ght. Are you Mr. Fied]er. Oh~ I'm sorry. Who are you Sir? Gall Wickham: He's Mr. Russell's Grandson Terry. Chairman: Oh, I'm serry. Thank you. The reason I'm asking is because -we're taking it down and someone has ~o reduce it to writing. For the record, we of course were very upset when this house burned. Not only from the Fire Department point of view, but also from a Historical point of view. Gall Wickham Esq: I'd be glad to leave those pictures with the board if you'd like to make arrangements to return them after you've including them in the hearing. Chairman: No, we?l] give them back. ls there anything else you would like ~o add Ms. Wickham? Gall Wickham Esq: No thank you, but if you have any more questions, Id be happy to try and answer. Chairman: OK We'll start with you Mrs. Tortora. Member Tortora: The only concern I have [s tha~ one of the purposes of the code is to discontinue non conforming uses, and [o look at any other alternatives that are possible, and it is 11 feet Page 14 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals from the road. Would it be possible for you to consider 16 feet or 15 feet before you get to that drop in the Oak trees, i didn't spot the other trees you were talking about. Gaff Wickham Esq: The problem, and we did consider alternatives. The problem w~th any alternative further back, is you immediately run into the contour and trees. We also providing a full front yard on the other side so that. I appreciate the board's concern and we don't need 50 % to preserve a non conforming use but I do think giving a setback of those other houses. ~hen you drive through there, there is not a problem. I also received a telephone cai1 from Mrs. Hanff who'sproperty is directly across the street and she had no objection to this. Chairman: Mr. Dinizio: Member Dinizio: No, I have no questions. Chairman: Mr. Villa. Member Villa: I have the same concerns that Lydia does. One of the bases that the code makes provision to eliminate non conforming uses. You state that there are other structures there. There is nothing to say that somewhere down the line, these buildings might not be destroyed by one method or another and they might be made to comply. Eleven feet, especially when the nearest house to the right ~o the East, is 38 feet back, and this sticks out so much further than that. It really, to me. I don't know. I'd have a hard job voting to allow it to go back 11 feet. Gall Wickham Esq: We!l, the purpose of the ordinance is to eliminate non conforming uses. But that's why we're here to try and demonstrate a difficulty or a hardship with doing that, particularly on tilts property. I might point out that that property that you referred to next door, does have a house that's located further back but the lot itself is only 60 feet wide. Whereas this is 115 feet wide, so it's a different type of property altogether. That property has other ( ). Member Villa: Oh, I realize that. Gall Wickham Esq: And I think this house has been sticking out there for quite some time. tt might stick out more if you knock down the trees and have a camouflage effect, you know. Member Villa: I ]usl have a problem with 11 feet. Gaff Wickham Esq: Yes, the other --. Member Villa: ! still have a problem with !! feet because, if you're dealing with a lo~ where you have no other alternative, that's one thing. But you got alternatives here. You can relocate this szruczure, change the shape of it, what have you. Slide it back so Page 15 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southotd Town Board of Appeal~ that is wouldn't be a problem. I just hav~ a real problem, a real problem with 11 feet. Cail Wickham Esq: Well, we tried to look at the other alternatives and we thought this was the best one at the board's decision. Chairman: With you up there could we ask Mr. Feiler to come up and maybe we could ask him some of the things that he has been ask to look into in reference to the reconstruction. Gall Wick_ham Esq: Sure Chairman: I mean, in case there is something that I get awry on, you can stop me, ok. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Mr. Feiler Chairman: Mr. Feiler, excuse me. Mr. Don Feiler: Yes, Don Feiler, architect. Chairman: How are you. Mr. Don Felier: I'd like to point out the intent of the Stafft's is to rebuild the house, similar to what was there before the fire. Similar in size. There would be very little difference in size. . Similar in character, in building material and similar in location, and we'd try to do that on this site where the buildings are, the way the site is. Where the hill is located it's not going to work. You'll have to reconsider it completely, to redo the house. Now, you haven't traveled down the street after it's built, with your permission tile same spot. You haven't traveled down the community in a couple of years, you might see it there and notice that maybe, it has a new paint job or something. You wouldn't notice that, all of a sudden 11 feet from the road when it was there for 100 years. So, I think that's the main point. To rebuild it similar and can't be much smaller than it is. It's about 1500 square feet on the first floor. So that's fairly modest in size. We're not asking for much bigger than it was before. Just a squaring off, simplifying that one corner, and again the character of the house that was there. I think that's a very important point to be able to do it this way. You can't come at this location, then rebuildLng on some other type of structure would have to be considered. Chair~nan: The purpose of my asking you to stand up was to ask you. I understood that the construction was going to be similar but my thought was, there wasn't going to be any open porches on the Wickham Avenue side. Mr. Don Feiier: Right Chairman: Because basically then we could deal with the aspect of when the actual house started, as suppose to a four foot porch or something of that nature. Page !6 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Don Feller: Considering an entree porch, is that. Chairman: Well, a porch that would be covered, you know. Or an open porch conceivably that' was either cement or slate on the ground level. Mr. Don Feller: Within the front yard. Chairman: Yes, yes. You're not anticipating. Your actually asking for a true reconstruction of the original dwelling. Mr. Don Feller: Yes Chairman: Right. I should point out for the board that this dwelling had ~reat significance to me over the years of my growing up in Mattituck. In fact, I did mention that at one time to Ms. Wiekham. Before the Grand Avenue bridge was in, that .was of course the turn that you had to make, and that house stared you right in the face right after you made that turn. Of course, these trees weren't quite that large at that time, and you got a better. It might have not been white at that time. It might have been a different color but it was certainly- an extremely- stately house. We trnly~ in the Mattituck. I'm not speaking for Mattituck Fire Department, but it was a very bleak day. It was not only a bleak day when it went down but it was a bleak day that it was destroyed. Do you have any other alternatives for us Mr. Fei]er? Mr. Don Feller: Unfortunately~ the alternatives may be a high ranch, does that appeal to you. But in consideration of what you were trying to accomplish here. Chairman: OK Mr. Don Feller: Very- little. Member Villa: Basically, reading what you said is that, you basically just work within the footwork of the structure, to try to reestablish what was there. Mr. Den Feiier: Not only footwork but the site consideration which are the ~ara~e, topography, the trees, the swimming pool, the concrete drive behind, and the elevation at the bottom of the hill. It drops off right at the back of this house. Chairman: We, and this is in no way to influence any members of this board. But, we created our own pond in putting out the fire in ~hat house, and we probably pumped about 16,000 gallons of water into that dwetlia~. At leas~ two tanker full and that is what our ~anker bolds and there was a significant amount of water down below and i understand the water problem that exists. Usually we're there ~onr to six hours so I understand the situation. I guess the only other avenue is to go in to see what other persons that is with yon, would like to speak in behalf of the hearing and we thank you Sir. Page 17 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Gaff Wickham Esq: I just want to ask you one minor point to the survey which t submitted of the house across the street. It shows a 15 foot setback being a rather small porch. If you examine the property, that porch has apparently been expanded across most of the front of the house, because it's fully- enclosed, so there is a full room there. Chairman: Thank You. Gall Wickham Esq: in line with your idea about saving that porch in the front of the house. That house across the street does not just have a porch. It's got a ( ). Chairman: Thank you, ok. Who would like to speak in favor of the application? Sir. Mr. George Stafft: I'm Mrs. Russell son. My uame is George Stafft. We've had this house as you know in our family since 1908. I can't deal with technicalities. Two feet here or two feet there. I do know that I have a Mother 91 years old who has spent her lifetime in that house. I realize that you people have to deal. You're two feet here and two feet there. But I would ask you to reconsider. We are not out to build a Taj Mahat. We're out to build what we had, and what we had in our family since 1908, and that's all I can say. Thank you Chairman: Is there anybody else. Yes, Mr. Scaramuci. How are you tonight. Mr. Scaramucl: My name is Mr. Scaramuci. I would just like to point out the fact that, or I would like to ask you a question. Isn't and also the purpose of this board to help resolve hardships by members of the Community, created by the Zoning Ordinance. Chairman: It's a relief out of the Zoning Ordinance. Member Villa: And the Courts and the Law said, that laws are to grant variances or have the ability To grant variances, but they should be the minimal that allowable or acceptable. Mr. John Scaramuci: Isn't there some provision To protect the citizen's from getting extreme additional hardship on top of the hardship that they already been incurred upon them. Member Villa: Not per say. Basically, we're here to see, act upon things that we-tlfink are reasgnable. Now your saying, or the Gentlemen before said, a couple of feet. You're dealing with 1~ here versus 35. That's more than a couple of feet. That's 24 feet Mr. John Scaramuci: But aren't we zrying to maintain the character of that neighborhood. Page 15 January I0~ 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Member Villa: Yes, and that's why when this was Hated as a nonconformance use, it was listed that way. it was a nonconformity because it wasn't 35 feet back from the roadJ Mr. John Scaramuci: But I think it's been established that the neighborhood is basically nonconformance. The lots are undersized. Member Villa: There are some that are undersized. There are some that have buildings closer to the road. But, not ail of them. The one right next to you conforms. The one further East then that, is further back yet. Mr. John Scaramuci: What about the hardship that would be created by ending up with the house in the ~ood plans, in the flood zone by causing the additional expense of a new septic system. By taking down those trees, even moving that house five feet addi~onai back, we would lose those trees because of the overcut. Member Villa: Youql probably need a new septic system any~zay. If your going in with a new house, your going to have to meet Health Department requirement with a new system. They are not going to let you hook up to an old system. Mr. John Scaramuci: I don't know that, that was the reason why. I would think that they could hook up to that system. As a builder, I wouldn't see any reason why they wouldn't. Member Villa: Because you need a new CO and the Building Department requires Health Department approval before they issue a CO, and you're going to need a new system. You got a new house. Mr. John Scaramuci: They didn't say that, because of tack of Health Department. The application shouldn't have gone in without a Health Department approval then, is what you're saying. Member Villa.: They weren't acting on it because they couldn't act on it because they needed a ZBA approval. It was destroyed, nonconformance. You're going to have to go to the Health Department. There is no question about that. Gall Wickham Esq: Mr. Villa, if t could just interject a moment. The two properties you spoke to next to this property which are setback. They are also much deeper lots because the creek does skewer in right at tl~s property and then it come back out. So, there are considerable differences, and ! believe that the code speaks not only to a specific front yard setback or any setback but aisc in certain circumstances, speaks to an average of other houses, and that's why I think houses across the street are very important. Member Villa: No, I realize that. You also have 155 feet from your seawall so DEC doesn't get involved because you've got a seawall. Gaff Wickham Esq: It's just very low back there. Page 19 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. John Scaramuci: The property is probably four feet lower than the seawall, and it does flood. When the snow melts. Member Villa: If [t floods your seawall is holding it back. tf it's lower than a seawall. Mr. John Searamuci: But again that's the existing, preexisting and wouldn't that be putting a additional hardslmip on Mr. Russell. Member Villa: You have a patio back there. You have a swimming pool back there. I mean, all these things, you're telling me is in a flood plain. You've been using then all these years. Mr. John Scaramuci: But they were constructed --. Member ViJla: But they are not under water. Mr. John Searamuci: They have been under water many times. I could testify to that. Chairman: They have. Member Villa: Well, I just a member of tile board. I just have to speak my mind and [ have a problem. Mr. John Scaramuci: I'm trying to argue the point by virtue of the fact that the lot is a unique lot. That lot. Member Villa: You say it's a unique lot but it's a big lot and there are other area's where you could put a house that could meet the criteria If this was an empty [or and you came in as a builder, you would design something that would comply on this lot without a problem. I'm sure you could. Mr. John $caramuci: Yes, but this is not an empty lot. Member Villa: I grant you that, but the house that was there was destroyed. Mr. John Scaramuci: These people lost the house through no fault of there own. Member Villa: It was destroyed and by code it does not allow it To be rebuilt without approval of this board. Now, i'm just one vote on the board but I have to say, speak my piece and deal with things the way I see. I know 1] feet versus 35 is just an excessive variance. Mr. John Scarsmuc~: Well, I would jusz ask you to reconsider that position and consider the good of the community, and the fact that that house will ~-estore that community to the way it looked before the ['ire. Thank you. Chairman: Thank You, Mr. Scaramuci. Is there anyone else that would like to speak. Page 20 January 10, t996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Gary Stafft: Yes i would like to add something. Chairman: Surely. Mr. Gary Stafft: My name is Gary Stafft. I'm the owner's Grandson. I am number five of six generations that have stayed in this house over the years, i don't want to turn this into a dog and pony show, but apparently that what it seems like we're getting at. The only thing that we're asking to do, is to rebuild a old farmhouse that has been apart of our lives for almost 100 years. That's all we want. It's not onJy been a place to go ia the summertime. It's not just a place to get away to, it's in all of our hearts and it's always in our thoughts and when this house burned, it took a big chuck of all of us, and if a couple of feet is going to make a big difference. Whether it's going back into 35 feet from 11 feet. I don't know. Like my father said, I don't knew how to deal with technicalities of footage. But if you could see the property, the way the topography is, and there is a hill. Member Villa: I've seen the property~ I've seen the property. Mr. Gary Stafft: There really is no place to go. All we ask is to build a nice old farmhouse like we once had. It will never be the same, no matter how nice of a house is put back up there~ It w~ill never be what was there. That is all we ask is to put up a nice old farmhouse, so that my kids can enjoy it also, and there kids in the future. Like I said, i,m number five or sixth generation sustaining the home. Some of you have relatives who have hundreds of years in ~-. this part of the Countv.~ If you go and ask these people, and you go and look at these old farmhouses where generations have stayed, talk so some of those people and see what in there hearts. This place was a part of us and it still is. We don't live in Swimming pool although it lays down below. We don't live on the patio down below. We live in an old farmhouse, up on the hill, and all we ask is to rebuild it aa close as possihie to the way it was. Chairman: Thank you Sir. Is there anybody else that would like to speak? Anybody. like to speak against the application, ok. What I guess we'll do is recess the hearing. After the final hearing, we'll reconvene and start deliberating. I don't think, I don't foresee that there will be any reason why- we wouldn't tonight. Secretary Linda Kowaiski: Recess or reserve Chairman: Clos~ it. Secretary Linde Kowalski: Oh~ you said close ii. Chairman: Oh, I get involve in this litany sometimes and I apologize, and we'll do the best we can. So ~ a member of the family wants to stay, whatever the case may be, your welcome. I'm sure weql be here at least another half hour with the hearing that exist and then we'll go fl~to deliberations. Hopefully anyway, and that's all [ can say~ We thank you for coming ali the way from New Page 21 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Jersey, and we wish you a very safe trip back, and it's very gratifying to know that this house was in the family for the last 90 plus years. I had no idea that it was original family. I knew that somebody cared for it 90 plus years. Not that I was around for 90 plus years. But, I knew and it's very gratifying to know that and we thank you. Hearing no further comments, I'll make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. 8:25 p.m. Application No. 4355 - PETER AND JANET BLOOM. This is an appeal based upon November 29, 1995 Updated Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector in which applicant was denied a perudt to construct front porch addition to dwelling with insufficient front yard setback and exceeding the maximum lot coverage allowable in this R-40 Zone District, Article 111A, Section 100-30A.3. This parcel contains a nonconforming lot area of approximately 7,960 sq. ft. Location of property: 580 L'Hommedieu Lane intersection with Old Shipyard Road, Southold; County Parcel No. 1000-64-2-53. R-4- Zone. Chairman: I have a copy of a survey by Roderick Van Tuyl dated September 27, 1978 and then I have one with the penned in additions indicating a front yard setback with the addition of four feet from the property tine, and a patio on the rear which we'll ask what the property- setback is on that one. For the record, I have an existing lot coverage at 16,058 square feet. So existing lot coverage is 20.85. Lot coverage was proposed porch addition, 1885 area lot against 7950 lot coverage with porch addition 23.37. So it's 3.37 over, ok. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. I have one letter from Mrs. Kathleen Kelly that has no objection. Is there somebody that would like to be heard? }Iow do you do tonight Sir. Mr. Bill Conway: My name is Bill Conway ~epresenthlg the Bloom's because they couldn't be present. Chairman: OK Mr. Bili Conway: Basically, they just want to add a screened in front porch on the front of there house for family use. The problem with the house and the lot obviously, is that the house is oriented across the short section of the lot. Whereas all the other houses in the neighborhood are 90 degrees to this. As you can see, the house was built 14 feet from the road frontage, and there is an existing concrete stoop t~here, which comes out approximately five and one half feet from the house. So basically we'.d be asking for five and one half foot easement. Chairman: Five and one half foot variance. Mr. Bill Conway: Right, from what's existing. From where the existing concrete stoop is. It would he an additional five and one half feet, closer to the road. And although it doesn't show it on the map, the actual, the black top highway is, is another seven or seven and one half feet out past the property line. Page 22 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Ail rigi~t. There's no, we have no problems with the patio on this, with the deck on the back. Mr. Bill Conway: That's existing. Chairman: That's existing. We have a building ]permit that is not part of this application. Mr. Bill Conway: Right Chairman: OK. All right. Mr. Vilta, it's down to you to start tonight. Member Villa: Right to me. You sound like a broken record. Chairman: No, no. We have Ms. Tortora the other time. Member Villa: No, no. I'm saying I sound like a broken record tonight because I have problems with this one as well. Chairman: Member Villa: And when you question the deck, we do have action the board that granted the deck as a variance back in October 17, 1990. Chairman: OK Member Villa: That of course was asked for so that they could have a place sit and have a deck and what have you. Enjoy their yard, which -was granted. Now, they are looking for a front porch, which to me is just the first step of taken action, and then close it in, and have a house that only go to be four feet from the road. I have problems with it, I mean. Granted the house is situated poorly' on the lot, but there is nothing to say- you couldn't add to the side of the house, rather than the front of the house. Mr. Bill Conway: But the front door is on that side. Member Villa; OH, I grant yon that but they want a poach. What do they want? I mean they are saying a porch. You've got a deck in the back which allows you to sit on. Mr. Bill Conway: Yes Member Villa: Now you want something else in the front of the house, that's going to be four feet from the property line which doesn't make sense to me, except the fact that I can see in the next year or so~ it's going to be closed in and become part of the overall house, which makes the house bigger, i just have real problems with allowing a house to be four feet from the property line. IVir. Bill Conway: Yes, I don't know if that's their plan is or not. I can't say. Page fi3 January 10, ]996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board o~ Appeals - . Member Villa: Welt, I just assuming. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Four feet from the property line is. Chairman: This is a five and one half foot addition. Is that correct. Mr. Bill Conway: Correct Member Villa: No, it's an eight foot addition. Chairman: It's an eight foot addition. Mr. Bill Conway: Closer to the steps. The actual, the steps would be tour feet from the road and the porch itself would be six. Chairman: I apologize., yes six from fourteen is eight, ok. So it's 15. Mr. Bill Conway: The property stoop that's there, it's a three and one half foot stoop with two one foot steps on it. Chairman: Yes, there really exempt from it. Mr. Bill Conway: So really right now, they are nine and one half feet from the property line in the front. Member Villa: Yes, but you're going out eight feet. Then you're going to have some steps after that, right. Mr. Bill Conway: Right, so that's another five and one half from what's there, existing. Member Villa: You're still going to be only- four feet from the property line with this structure. Chairman: I guess the question we have to ask you and I apologize for barging in on your discourse there with Mr. Villa. You want us to grant any alternative relief if we can or do you just want --. Mr. Bill Conway: If you could just make it six feet, you know. If that makes any difference in granting me appeal. [ would say anything less would than tilat would be useless, really. Chairman: OK, pardon me Mr. Villa, again. Member Villa: It's all right. Chairman: Mr. Dinizio. Member Dinizio: No, I don't have ~ny questions. Chairman: OK, Mrs. Tortora. Member Tortora: The only other thing would be another possible location. Page 24 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southotd Town Board of Al)peals Mr. Bill Conway: Well, the only thing is that's where the front door is~ and the only other exit door. Member Tortora: I know you're this way on a lot that's this way. Member Tortora: Yes, that's the problem. That's the whole problem with it. Chairman: OK, all right. Mr. Bill Conway: Anything else? Chairman: No, ok. We thank you and we'll see if anything else generates during the hearing. Mr. Bill Conway: OK, very good. Chairman: And we'll call you right back up. Mr. Bill Conway: OK, thank you. Chairman: Is there anybody else that would like lo speak in favor. ~s there anybody that would like to speak agahasi. Hearing no further comments I guess we'll make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. All in favor. Page 25 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: The last hearing of the evening is a reconvened hearing for the [asr regular scheduled meeting in behalf of Louis Moore Bacon and we will now continue this hearing as a continuation of the last hearing which was in December and we would ask Mr. Law if he would like to continue. Kevin Law Esq: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I just wanted To bring the board up to date. Some of the things that have occurred since our last meeting in December. First of all it's Kevin S. Law, Nixon, Hargrave, Devens, & Doyle, Attorney's for Mr. Bacon. We are in receipt of the boards Environment's Consultant's letter to the board requesting some additional information from Mr. Bacon, in order for your consultant to make a recommendation as to the Sequa deternfination from tile board. We received that letter in between Christmas and New Year and we have referred on to our Environmental Consultant, and we're in the process of addressing those requests for additional information, and hope to respond to your Consultant to the board, whichever is your preference in approximately two weeks. And as we understand the board is thus, not in a position to make a Seqra decision tonight, and thus issue any decision on our application tonight but we wanted to come and continue the dialogue tonight with the board to present some additional information, and to also answer any questions that the board may have from the last meeting. If I could indulge the board and suggest sort of a sequence of how we'd like To proceed over the next two months. I'm hoping you'll entertain that, and then I'd like to proceed from there. Since the board isn't h~ a position to make any type of determination tonight because of the Sequa determination, and since the plan is a comprehensive plan and we have multiple requests for the board. What we'd like to do tonight is just address the dwelling unit issues, and try to get some reaction from the board, and try to get some direction from the board on that issue because, it's the plan that centers around those uses. Then what we would like to do is come back in February, and then spec'L~lcally address all the height variances that we requested and present some information to the board on that including some of the dra~dng that you requested. Hopefully, we'll have some of the drawings by then as well, that we could present to the board and demonstrate structure by szrueture the reasons why we believe we're either entitled To or request a variance. Th6n, hopefully after that the board will be in a position, once we provide that additional ~Lnformation, once we provide the additional Environmental information To your Consultant, the board wilt be in a position then to make a Sequa determination, and a demsion on our actual application sometime thereafter. If that sounds OK to the board that's how I would like ~o proceed tonight. Chairman: That's fine witb me. Page 26 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Kevin Law Esq: Thank you very much. One thing I wanted to clarify from the last meeting. I know I did monopolize aiot of your hearing the last time and I won't do that tonight t promise. But if you left the hearing thinking that we were not interested in working with the board in establishing some conditions to our request that are mutual acceptable to the board and to Mr. Bacon. I want to represent to the board tonight, that we are interested in working with your staff person and with the Town Attorney, at arriving at some conditions that we can protect the Town interest and Mr. Bacon interest. And so, ii[ there was any inkling that we weren't going to do that at last meeting, I wanted to dispel that and represent to you tonight, that we are certainly willing to work with you at arriving at some conditions that we can live ~dth, and I thank you for that. Getting to the dwelling unit issue, as you know Mr. Bacon desires to use Robin's Island as a family vacation retreat. Continue the Island's i00 year History as a private shooting preserve. And traditionally, there were five dwelling units. There have been five dwelling units on the property and Mr. Bacon' plans call for only six structures containing habitable quarters. And we believe the plan is our harmonious request to restore or to reactivate and to construct the six units, or the six structures containing habitable quarters. And as I said at the last meeting,-the only year round, the only structure containing habitable quarters that will be used year round, will be that of the Caretaker cottage. One of the things that we needed a clarification on from the last meeting. You asked us to go back to the Building Department, which we did, to get an amended notice of disapproval, or to clarify a particular issue and that was. Whieh building is going to be the principal building. And it wasn't clear from the original Notice of Disapproval and I represented to you the conversation I had with the Building Department. But I believe now with the amended Notice of Disapproval, R's clear where the Building Department is coming from. And right now they view the Mackay cottage as the principal building. And as our submittals on our application describe, as I requested at the last hearing, and will request again tonight is. We would respectfully ask the board to interpret ~nd make a decision and exercise it's digression, to construe the proposed family vacation home as principal building. And to not only advise the board, in what the code says. But, I was looking through the definitions in the code and I. The principal use as described in the code, is the rfmin or primary purpose, for which land and or structure is designed, or intended to be used. We intend or Mr. Bacon intends the vacation home to be the principal, that it's proposed to be the prineipai use. And the principal building, is the building where the principal use is carried out. And so, that is. The entire plan is designed around the family vacation home and we would like. We would respectfully request that the board designate the vacation home as the prineipai building. If the board is so inclined, we then request that ail the other structures that Page 27 January t0, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals aren't considered as Agricultural bnildings, ~ be accessory buildings. And I think it's important re note again, as I stated ar the last meeting, that the Island is situated ha the R4-00 district which allows residential structures and Agricultural buildings and various accessory buildings. And Mr. Bacon plans call for nothing but those type of plans. We are not calling for anything that is not permitted under the R400 designation. And so, if we could get the vacation home described as the principal building, and then have the additional accessory buildings contain inhabitable structures viewed as accessory, or subordinate so tiffs principal building. That is what we're requesthag. I think as our submittals show that, as I understand what the board needs to do. The board most engage in a balancing test as To whether or not those requests would allow us To use those buildings for periodic. Again, it will not be year round dwelling units. They will be used periodically by Mr. Bacon, his guests and his staff. He needs his staff for the various shoots that goes on there during the hunting season. Or other Agricultural staff. You understand, you need to do a balancing test where you have to weight the benefit To the applicant versus the determent of health, safety and welfare of the community. What I proposed to the board tonight, that our request, there will be no undesirable change To the character of the neighborhood or to the local community here. The benefits sort. Can it be achieved by any other way? There is one way and we discussed it last meeting and that is through a subdivision. And we didn't come To submit our application to the board, and to the Town, just Wily Nelly. We spent a year trying to do our homework, soliciting the input from various Town officials and there was one common thread, through all the comments. That was to try to keep the parcel as one lot, and try To avoid subdivision. We're trying to do that, and if we do that, then there really is no other way that the use of these buildings, as desired by the applicant, can be achieved. So we don't think these variances requests are substantial. Also, as we believe as demonstrated in our Environmental submittals, and as what we're going to provide to your Environmental consultant in terms of additional Environmental information. I think it will clearly demonstrate, that our variance request will not have any adverse impact on the physical or environmental conditions of the Island, and certainly not the neighborhood or the local Community. Since I think we could demonstrate all those items that are required for the variance that we seek, I believe Mr. Bacon should be entitled to use those buildings as he desires. With the vaeation home being the principal building, and the Mackay cottage, the Lane Lodge, the Caretakers cottage and the Agricultural staff, and the Seasonal staff quarters, as accessory to the principal building and we would request your approval of those requests. As ~ said, to try to carve up and try to make the application, or our application discussions, make it easier for the public to understand Page 28 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals as well as the board, not to try to confuse the issues. That's why we wanted to limit our discussions tonight to. And that is, we wanted to bring the dwelling unit issues to a head and get your reaction, and see where the board was coming from and hopefully receive some positive feedback on that. And then we would like to come back in February to discuss and provide the board w~th additional information as to why we're entitled to the height variances. I'm prepared to answer any questions that the board may have at this time or later on in the meeting. If I can't answer any of those questions, Jim Thompson, Mr. Bacon's architect, and project manager is also here. Perhaps he'd be available to answer those questions as well. Chairman: I briefly mentioned to the Town Attorney, and of course she is aware of your presentation of, and requests making the vacation home, the primary structure. I'm not answering for her. It's something that she's looking into at this particular time, and you know, it's something that we'll certainly will deal with at the culmination of all these hearings on this very, pretty ~r~agnanimous project actually. That's the only thing I can tell you at this particular point. My discussion with you individually was that, one of the main reasons it didn't exist at this time, and that was the reason why, right. That doesn't mean R couldn't happen in the future as a result of the culmination of this. I think the Building Inspector made the Mackay house the primary structure. Kevin Law Esq: Correct, and we would request that you consider that an accessory building to the vacation home Chairman: OK. Lydia, do you have any questions of Mr. Law at this point? Member Tortora: No, I think we got the Town Attorney's, in your reference on whether it's a use variance or an area variance. Chairman: And we're looking at that now. We are actually meeting with the Town Attorney on that basis tonight. Kevin Lam- Esq: Great. She's been helpful, i've been trying to keep the legal arguments with her on preparing Town Attorney ~ questions you may spec~icalty have tonight. Chairman: OK. Do you have any questions of Mr. Law? Member Tortora: No, I had agreed with a new assessments. Chairman ! Jim. Member Dinizio: I ~uess Kevin I'm still-. ~ g~ess I'm trying to find out just who benefits and who doesn't benefit from any application that you make. I look at an Island and i see six or seven structures, whatever it is, liveable places and I think that, why doesn't this man just go subdivide it. Why put yourself through this when it's so simple for you just to go there, carve out a few Page 29 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals hunks of land, make them 10 acre lots. You have plenty there, and be done with it. You'll have to do everything anyway. If fire protection has to go, I mean. Kirk, you'd have to have that. But certainly, you're going to have to apply everything in this application that you would apply to the Planrking Board w~th the subdivision. And I'm wondering why, and I'm wondering what benefit you gain from that. I know what the Town would gain from it. I think I knew what the Town would gain from it. I'm just wondering why Mr. Bacon chose this direction. Kevin Law Esq: That's an excellent question and again part of it, the reason we're doing it this way goes to the guidance we received from the various Town Officials we spoke with fl~ the past year, including the Town Planner. And the members of the Planning Board and the ZBA, and the Town Attorney and the then Town Supervisor. I think the Island has a History of being single ownership and being viewed as one parcel. It was felt that the best way to manage from the Town's prospective, was to manage the Island and to manage the Environmental sensitive portions of the property, was to have one owner, and it was in the Town's interest to do that. Was there a way we could figure out, to try to achieve that~ where we kept the Island in single ownership and kept it as one parcel? Tkis was the way we decided, was an option, you know. It wasn't the only way. As you said, we could submit a subdivision plan. We believe we're easily entitled to 30 ( ) lots. We believe that there are at least three hundred pitts acres of buildabte property on the Island. And you're right. Could we do that? But you know, Mr. Bacon is comnfitted to befl~g a good steward of the Island as well, and to preserve any Environmental sensitive portions of it. He a man of means, who was trying to do, not only create a nice vacation home, a family retreat for him and his family, but az the same time, to protect the Natural Resources of the Island. That's sort of how we arrived at this particular land use mechanism. Member Dinizio: OK, can I just, t don't want to insult you Kevin. I'm asking you this question just so it's clear. What you said was, you're making an application to us because we asked you. The Town said, encouraged you to follow this direction, that the Towns people, everybody on that [h]e would rather have this be in one lot with one owner as opposed to the 30 lots or even five lots or ten lots. Whatever you happen to yield, you have to get out of that. And still didn't hear you say, what you gain or what Mr. Bacon gains. Kevin Law Esq: [ think the public benefits outweigh the private benefits. But you're right. There are some private benefits that Mr. Bacon receives. I think that one of them is, the time to secure the approvals, you know. I don't think it's a secret that, typically it takes a lesser amount of ~ime to secure a variance. Not always, but typically. Rather then going through a preliminary subdiwlsion review process and the final subdivision review process. That was certainly, that's a benefit Mr. Bacon achieved. He doesn't have to go through the mere lengthy approval process of a subdivision. So that's certainly a benefit that Mr. Bacon receives. Your right, in Page 30 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals that way, into the equation, absolutely. I'm not going to sit hero and tell you not. Member Dinizio: OK. Chairman: I just wanted to say, that my discussions with you, going way back six or e~ht months ago, and then your subsequent decisions with my decisions, either during or after, or before with the Planning Board, was that I think everybody was somewhat happy with one ownership, one lot situation. I mean, I got no opinion that lhere wasn't anybody that wasn't happy with it. t mean, I'm not speaking for past Town Officials and present Town Officials. But, I'm just saTy-lng that, that was a way we were swaying. We were not swaying the subdivision route in my opinion, from my past discussions with you. i(evin Law Esq: That happens to be correct. Chairman: Yeah Kevin Law Esq: If I could indulge the board if it's not to confusing for the record. Jim, do you havo something to add at this point, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Jim Thompson: I'm Jim Thompson~ architect, Greenwich, Connecticut. I'd liko to reinforce or maybe state to clear lIevin's remark, that Mr. Bacon has made an effort to be respectful and mindful of the community, and particularly our neighbors in New ~--. Suffolk. And in our work within the community, and in trying to become a member of the community, there has been a very clear signal to us that, members of our immediate neighborhood and Village would be very disturbed if a subdivision application was processod for the property, because they would see that as a breach of confidenco or the loss of the opportunity to kept the Island in safe ownership, would open it to lawful, i mean. To have subdivision undor one owner in the present, opens the door to having multiple owners and more construction in the future, w~kich is something that is not the present owners intent, and thorefore working within the Zoning Ordinance as 11400 as a single lot. As far as I'm concerned, is more complex for the owner~ and I think it should bo taken as a ! respectful jester to the community because the public bonofit definitely outweighs the private benefit. Chairman: Thank you. Member Dinizio: Could I just add one more thought, I guess it is. That going on this one lot theory, the fact that yotl'll have peoplo living in accessory buildings, if that's how we interpret it or go about it. We have one lot. We havo 400 plus acres, 6 dwellings, some of them more higher than, I guess the Town allows, 45 feet. I may add 45 feet, mostly of the topography of the land, not necessary because you can build a house at 45 feet on a piece of flat land. But rather because it's on a piece of land that slopes. You're offering, I ~tess more or less. You're suggesting to us, we give Page 31 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southotd Town Board of Appeals '~ · you that 45 foot and plus a few accessories with people living in it. And what you're offering us is, an Island that will be pretty much remain undeveloped as long as this plan stays in effect. Am correct, i mean. You offered us a plan. This is a plan to preserve Robin's Island in Mr. Bacon's mind and if we find that acceptable, his plan acceptable, we should go ahead with it. De you get what I'm trying re say to you? [ want re know it's nor more than that. It's not more than you saying re us, this will last forever, or it won't last forever. It's just your plan and you want us to give it to you or not give it to you. I guess that's basically that's what I'm looking Kevin Law Esq: I think I know where you're coming frem and part of the other guidance we received from the Town was. Don't try to come in here piecemeal. One structure at a time. Try to develope a comprehensive plan, and we try to do that and it's a significant challenge, because what Mr. Bacon is attempting re do, and certain officials have asked him to do. Try to figure out in 1995 now 1996, everytking. He just purchased the property, acquired it in 1994. Everything he ever wants to do or consIruct on the Island and so, that's part of the other process. It took us a while to try to develope this plan and we appreciated your compliments at the last meeting. And that's what this is. It's a good faith, you know, best determination that we can determine at this time. What is Mr. Bacon's plans for tlfis property- We understand that there is a concern that we devetope some conditions, including if there are any deviations from the plan, that we would have ~o come back to the board for your review or to whichever board you would send it We are certainly wi]Jing ~o do that because the plan as proposed to you now, is Mr. Bacon best, good faith, determination of what he plsns to do with the Island at this time. I hope that answers your questions. Member Dinizio: Yes it did. Thank you. Chairman: Mr. Villa Member Villa: Well following up on that Kevin, basically what you're saying~ that the plan is evolving and it will evolve for some period of time yet. And I have no problems goh~g along basically with the concept. I'd just like to see everythi~g in place before this board give any k/nd of a final binding approval. ~Now, you're talking phases. Is it possible that we could issue approvals on a phase by phase basis for a period of time? Kevin Law Esq: I'd like to discuss that with our project team and Mr. Bacon. My initial reaction to that would be negative. Again, largely because we spent slot of time and effort and money in trying to devetope a comprehensive plan because, not you Mr. Villa, but others had said, we don't want you coming in here piecemeal. We don't want our approvals piecemeal either, i think what Mr. Bacon wants is, he wants to know that his plan as proposed is something that he'll be able to implement. Page 32 January 10, 1998 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Member Villa: Yes, but when is your plan as proposed going to be final. You're asking, you're saying you'd be negative to my request. You have to respect that I would be neg~ative to your request if you don't have a final plan. Basically, you're coming in here and saying it's evolving, well fine. How tong is it going to evolve? Kevin Law Esq: I don't think the plan is evolved. As I said, I think it's evolved to this and you know, aiot of time and effort went into developing this plan. What I'm suggesting that, if there are minor deviations from it or any deviations from it, we'd certainly be willing to come back to the board and request your guidance and your approval of it. Member Villa: That still leaves me on shaky grounds. Chairman:: OK i think what emanated out of the meeting with the Town Attorney tonight Kevin was this. That there was a thought that a Phase 1 and Phase 2 situation might be something that might be in order. Your immediate concern is the construction of whatever Phase you,re going to start when the weather breaks, assuming you get approvals from this board. I don't care if it's. I~m not saying this in a derogatory manner. We don't particular care and I'm not speaking for the board. I don't particularly care if it's the Lane house or the reconstruction of the Mackay house, or the actual development of the whole industrial area, the barn area. I'm not referring to it as a industrial area. Kevin Law Esq: The Agricultural area. Chairman: The Agricultural area, ok -which includes the Caretakers Cottage and so on and so forth. Once everything eise was in place, the board would then complete the review, the rewdew would be completed and then a decision would be rendered for the rest of the entire plan. That was a thought that was discussed with the Town Attorney. Yes, Jim. Mr. Jim Thompson: i'd like to ask a question if it's not possible to pursue or a disinclination to pursue approval of the whole list of concept then, how do I know how to proceed. Chairman: Right Mr. Jim Thompson: Because now I don't know whether I'm dealing with the ordinance as it relates to the principal unit, or the accessory unit. I don't know what's what on the property. I don~t know what's conforming, what's not non conforming. Chairman: No, that's not the case Jim. The case is continue with the plan. The normal way the plan is to continue, ok, and just to tell us what Phase you going to commence or wanted to commence in April or May to get approvals for. When .I say approval I talking about Building Permits and commence construction up. We know the Page 33 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals vacation house is the last thing to be constructed aeeordirig to what you have told us and what we see in our documentation. Mr. Jim Thompson:: The construction schedule as submitted in the exhibits to the EAF indicates thai area B and the utility and infrastructure to the Island would be our as well as some agricultural structure, would be our primary focus through 1996 and 97. Chairmau~: OK Can you. I'm talking short term phase. I'm talking six month or eight month phase. Immecliate, so that possibly we could wrap this thing up by the end of, or November, December of 1996. Mr. Jim Thompson: Not being a lawyer, I guess the dilemma I have is. If I~m to prepare for my client proposals and plans to make an investment in the restoration of the Lane house for example. Chairman: Right Mr. Jim Thompson: And then he says ok, well. Now I have a habitable structure on my [{400 parcel. It is the dwelling unit, I'm screwed. Chairman: There is no anticipation of what we have seen that there is going to be any change of what, ok, of what we're doing. Our concern is that everything keeps on flowing. We don't know if we can complete a decision by the time that the ground breaks is the issue, and that's basically it. Mr. Jim Thompson: I respect that and I don't think that the board should or could feel any pressure. We're not applying any pressure that's say's, we have a deadline to structure on this property. What is necessary for the comfort of the [and owner to know, that he can precede with the improvement of his property within his rights is some certainty that, liis concept or needs for safe and effective use of an estate property is secure witk the Town. And to us the multiple structures would have more quarters is absolutely essential to the safe and effective operation of a large estate property like this, because it's located on an Island. Where you have no community services, no infrastructure , no support, you've got to be self sufficient. Without some guidance and agreement on that principal~ then we have nothing and I have no basis to represent to the owner of the property. Cliairman: OK Mr. Jim Thompson: And it would be safe, proper or appropriate to continue with the rest of it, in the improvement of the property. Chairman:: OK. Well, we were just throwing it out. Basically. it was a thought we were discussing with the Town Attorney. If you have any thoughts ~o her, based upon what we threw- out to you, you're welcome to do so. We have an ongoing discussion. You have Page 34 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southotd Town Board of Appeals an ongoing discussion with her. All the doors are open and everything is continuing and it would be unkind of us if we didn't threw that out and that was basically the situation. Is that proper in saying that. Member Dinizio: I would say it was not unanimous. Chairman: Yeah, it was hot unanimous. Member Dinizio: It was a result of a discussion. Chairman: ti wes certainly not unanimous. You are absolutely- correct Mr. Dinizio in all due respects. Kevin Law Esq: i saw the Town Attorney as I was coming in. She was leaving but she did ask me to give her tomorrow or Friday, and I will certainly do that to continue the dialogue. Chairman: Sure Kevin LaTM Esq: But I have the same concerns that Mr. Thompson expressed. Ag~dn, not to monopolize any more of the board's time. Chairman: Right Kevin Law Esq: Unless you have other questions for me. Chairman I just want to --. Kevin Law Esq: Again, you have goals and we have goals, you know. As an Attorney I'm always going back to the Client. Well, what have you done for me. I'm looking for some. I knew you can't make a decision tonight and I'm not asking you for a decision or even an advisory opinion. I'm looking for some favorable reaction to the concept of the vacation home being the principal use, and then the accessory buildings containing the other-habitable quarters that will only be used periodically throughout the year, and because I think the rest of the plan is centered around that concept. Chairman: The word accessory- when it conforms with zoning and has habitable dwelling C of O's, which these will be, is not the proper word to use because aceessor~- is accessory to another dwelling, ok. Secretary Linde Kowalski: Are we talking about accessory buildings. Chairman: Accessory buildings. Secretary Linde Kowalski: And extension of the main dwelling. Chairman: Right, right. Secretary Linde Kowaiski: Accessory buildings but the uses are different Jerry. Page 35 January 10, 1996 P~blic Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Yes. So, it may be a phrase or a term that we have problems with on that basis. So we're dealing with that aspect of it at this particular point. Personally, I don't have any particular problem as long as legally we can do it, ok. That's basically the issue as it stands, all right. For the public that are here tonight, we are entering into and entire grid that we're trying To fit into a zoning code which does not necessarily address all of these issues. And I know that there are ultimate concerns with members that are immediate neighbors, who are the New Suffolk people and who are members of the New Suffolk Community is the proper phrase to use. For their benefit and for everybody's benefit, we have extended this over a series of individual hearings because it's very difficult for us to understand every specific aspect of this great, great piece of property, and we do appreciate that aspect of ii. But for their benefit, that's what we're doing. So, we've gone through a certain step. Our Attorney advises us. We then talk to her. She then goes back and addresses legal aspects of it and then re advises us and that's basically wt~ere we are. So, we know Jim comes all the way down from Greenwich To do this, and we do know that's a hardship. We're sorry about that. We know that [~evin comes from Smithtown, aetually Garden City, but it is helping us to understand the process I think. Kevin Law Esq: I'll continue the dialogue with the Town Attorney and try to hammer these issues out with her if that's going to be helpful To the entire process. Chairman: To try and take this entire project, and To put it into one four hour i~esring, would be so difficult ~o understand, that I think would take us days and days and days To try to disseminate it before we could ge~ ~o that particular point. And of course, remember sgain, for members of the community. We have a Sequa process running like a railroad track, right down the whole issue. That our consultant is dealing with also. Just so everyone is aware of that situation. And there are other concerns that your representing, an owner on other issues that are running also, that don't necessarily concern the board. But that's a third railroad track that goes down the line. So, these are all things that we are taking into consideration. So that basically where we are. Kevjn Law Esq: We appreciate that and we thank you for that and that's why we thought it might be a little easier tonight if we just limited our discussion tonight to our dwelling unit issues. Chairman: Rigl~t Kevin Law Esq: And come back if the board would have us hi February, a~ld get into more specifics on the height variances that wetre seeking. Chsirman: Good, good. Let's jus~ see before you leave us if there is any particular problem. Page 36 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Jim Thompson: Applying for the variances that are required would create another similar parcel. II's a tough one, it's a tough one. But I really- see that a~ain that the DEC requires 75 feet for structure normally, this is 60 feet. The Health Department requires !00 feet for sanitary system, this is 60 feet. It sets a prescient. Chairman: Have while they're here during this hearing. Anybody want to speak about this project, Mr. Fenton. Mr. Fenton: I came all the way from New Suffolk. I represented the New Suffolk Community a number of years ago when we voted 185 to 10 to try to prevent the building of condominium's there. We were s~ecessful but that was an adversaries proceeding. This one for the most part isn't. Most of us has welcomed the Bacon purchase as a continuation of private ownership and it's participation as a tax paying entente. However, some of us have some comments and questions, and when we sorted them out they appear to fall into six main catego~des. I'll try to be brief with respect to each. One was a helicopter pad. Second was electricity. The third was the sehooI. Four was the height variances. Five was Lyme disease and the sixth was taxation. Helicopter Pad I know helicopter pads doesn't adversely, affect the environment. What the helicopter's do, they make noise, they create turbulence, they can be dangerous if certain restrictions aren't observed. And the questions that some of the people in the community have raised include, where the pad is located, it's proximity to wildlife, and the effect on the people who boat there in the Summertime. It gets crowded in there. There is a concern of spooking the deer. They use helicopter's in the Southwestern part of the United States to manage cattle herd, and they take pictures for inventory purposes. They transport workers too. i guess what they used to do was brand them, now they tattoo the animals. But they have to be very careful not to stampede the animals, and ! think on page 64 of the presentation that was made, they talk about the lack of noise on Robin's Island and how tranquil it is. And maybe a helicopter isn't really in keeping with that. We would like to keep the helicopter pad away from New Suffolk as far as we can get it. We wonder whether it should be anywhere near where the animals are, or where the people are who use the North base area, and i think Deer are probably more prone to be frightened than more high strung animals, than cattle are. Mr. Bacon said, he's going to be using this for hunting. Is he going to be using the helicopter as a gun shoot? It's a very challenging thing to shoot a moving target from a moving platform and it's quite a challenge and we don't know what lfis plans are. One of the concerns that was expressed was this very concern. Would the helicopter's take off at night and land at ~ight and disturb the peace? Are they going to light up the helicopter pad? Will the f]ight pads go over New Suffolk? Will it come from the Southwest or the Southeast, where there would be less change of effecting anybody. That's if you permit. I think the concept the people have Page 37 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals is, keep the helicopter's away from New Suffolk if you can, if you allow it. One of the neighbors raised .the question about multiple hekicopter sight seeing flights when Mr. Bacon has guests. The presentation indicted that it would really be superficial use of the helicopter. But you know, if you have 50 guests. You may want to take them up and ride them around and show them the place. We have a concern about that. Bacon may lose the property or he may sell it and what about the next owner. Is he going to offer rides. Is Bacon going to rent it out? He could get a million or two rn~]]ion dollars if a movie producer can use it as a site. The next James Bond picture. They Like Islands, they like Smertz headquarters or whatever they call that place and why turn down a million dollars for a rental. Do we open a door with a helicopter pad, it becomes more attractive. These have been some of the concerns that we're expressing about the helicopter pad. Chairman: Those are very valid issues Mr. Fenton. Mr. Fenton: I don't th/nk anybody wants to give them a hard time. That's not the purpose but you know. I've lived opposite t{obin's Islm~d all of my life, and I know what it is, and it can't always be the way it is. I like the fact that he wants To use it for hunting. I respec~ that. I wasn't thrilled about exterminating as many Deer's as we're exterminating. It's his Island if that's what he wanted to do, fine. Helicopter's, that doesn't seem to go with Robin's Island. Electricity, the proposals and vintages, making his own electricity. I guess using a generator or generators, t assume that they are going to be powered by some kind of fossil fuel engine and the alternative of using Lilco isn't mentioned. At least, I couldn't find it and I have To speculate now. These were the questions that were asked. Why not Lilco. Does it cost too much for a table? Is it because they have [o get stand by generation, anyway, in case Lilco goes down, which happens, and the cost To add additional is not that much greater. Is it an Island mentality that requires self sufficiency. Now, if they don't use Lilco, the rest of us have To pay higher rates. [ know it's interstitial, from a social standpoint. If everyone uses Lilco they could advertise more uses. We all use Lilco. Maybe he should be in the same boat, I don't know. There is exhaust from possible fuel engines. I assume we have millions of them on the Island. One more or two more are not going to make a big difference, from a social standpoint. Why have that exhaust? Chairman: I have to be honest with you. I was elated when I heard he wasn't going To run a cable ~o the Island. Mr. Fen[on: Well, these aren't questions that solely rest with me. These are questions that people have asked. There is a cable that runs to Plum Island. There is a cable that runs ~o Shelter Island. You know, I don't know that cable hurts anything. Now you may Page 38 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals have been elated. Maybe yon will have to explain to me sometime when we get a chance to talk, why. I just i~aised the question. Chairman: I had the really great -. I should say, a friend of mine had taken me to the US Open this year, and there was about six generators at the US Open powering most of the ABC and most of NBC News and cameras, in very remote location: and I have a tendency to look at things, just not that exist on the surface, but wltat exists in the background. And I purposely stood next to these generators and Mr. Bacon has about three or font at this particular time. I believe they are and I will ask, powered with diesel. But, I found absolutely nothing emanating out of any of them, including the one on l{obin's Island that i was standing near and was running, ok. ! have to be honest with you. In my elation again was, the fact that he wasn't running a cable. Mr. Fenton: Good but if he doesn't run the diesel, nothing goes into the air, it's a ( ). i'm not saying it's critical. I'm recounting to you. Chairman: I'm just saying to you, sure. Mr. Fenton: What's accumulated in the Community. Chairman: Sure Mr. Fenton: Now, I was there this morning. There was a hnmongous fuel truck there. That fuel truck goes on to an old Army or Navy ship that takes it there. Now, I don't know whether that is a seaworthy vessel. I assume it is. But, you start transporting oil to run diesel generators, you can have oil spill. Do they have booms. Do they have people that are trained in spills. If you don't load that thing right in the center and you get a high wind, is it going to tip over. I know it's not X. L. Valdez but we do Jive in a community and we are concerned. Chairman: Sure Mr. Fenton: If you go in that Harbor in the Summertime, I defy this landing ship to get through. There can be a collision, and these are the questions that have been asked to me, if I know the answers. Mr. Chairman: Sure Mr. Fenton: I g%tess, you're the lead Agency. Chairman: Yes Mr. Fenton: That's why, you asked if there is anybody from the community. Here I am. Chairman: Again, another valid point. Page 39 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Fenton: Third item. And I'm sure the captain that they selected here is not the fellow from the X. L. Vaidez. The school-. Chairman: We hope not. Chairman: OK, the school. The proposal seems To acknowledge that the obligation to transport children of school age off of Robin's Island rests with that. I'm wondering whether this should be confirmed by a covenant to run with the Island's deed. [f not, the next owner or owner's may require the school to transport each child to Southold or to the New Suffolk School as the case may be, and leave the school board to contract with them ear and auto services. Now, I don't know if that the road runs down the center of Robin's Island will become a Town road at some point, or whether is going to become a dedication. Well, you don't know. I think you have to look ahead with these things. Chairman: I agree with you. Mr. Fenton: We're looldng To protect the school so that they don't have the expense, because if ail the school taxes go for that. If the school board is required to transport them. I don't know how that gets done. I think the covenant filing of the deed, is the right way. but I don't know. It's a point that been raised. I think that the present rules are, if someone lives two miles away they have to be transported. Now, I could easily see someone in the take his cottage or someone down the road that lives within two miles. Height variances: As you know the local Legislature has enacted a law after the required due Public Notice and Public Hearing and the predecessors in interest of this Istand have the opportunity to be present at these hearings. I don't know if they do but it seems to me that we are all bound by these height rules. I don't know if there should be an exception here. You can grant variances for hardship ( ) I didn't see any in the presentation. If there are valid reasons, fine. An 80 foot microwave tower A Telephone Company's Microwave Tower in Cutehogue is less than half that height. You can get superb television reception with an antenna dish on the ground. You can speak to anybody in the world with a cellular phone. You can fax through. I don't know that you need a 80 foot Microwave Tower Maybe there is a reason. I think the same thing is true. Well, let's go back a bit. If you grant the variance. We have a vote a number of years ago when the Cutchogue Fire Department wauted re put tn ladders, hook and ladder engines that would fight fires that are higher, fire height. It was voted down by the people because we didn't have any building that were high enough re cequire those [adders. Chairman: Right Mr. Fenton: And the equipment and the btfildings for that equipment, and I think it was intelligent at the time. Now, I think Page 40 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals that Robin's Island is entitled to whatever the fire protection that Cutchogue can afford, and if there is a brush fire, it will be time -~ to get out there and he~p them. But, if they are going to build buildings that are higher than what we have equipment for, the next step is going to be. Hey, we have to get longer engines to be able to help Robin's Island in case there is a fire. We don't want to get into that. It's a concern, and i've seen things like this snowball, and you have too. The proposal mentions tiffs tower also, I think for water. Again, I doa't know. I can get tremendous pressure in my pumping setup with adequate diameter, of water lines and pumps, and I would assume he can too. There is a ( ) on the island that he proposes to use it. With pumping I don't know that he needs an 80 foot water tower but if he can demonstrates that he needs it, that's one thing. I didn't see any of that in the proposal. Lyme Disease. As we know Deer ticks can carry a transited Lyme Disease and they have been Deer on t{obin's Island before any of our ancestor's arrived here. And this may represent some threat to those who live nearby. But, I understand many of the Deer have been exterminated, so there will be less problems with Lyme Disease. Moreover because there is more contact between the Island and what I'll call, the mainland. Alot of workman come each day. Alot of debris comes and I don't know if anybody has ever studied or looked to what possibilities there are, or whether the Deer on the Island are infected or not. I think something should be done about that. I know of one workman who refused to continue to work on the Island or says he refused to continue to work on the Island because of fear of contracting Lyme disease. I'd like to ~-- know, the Community would like to know, has anybody come down with Lyme disease who worked on the Island. Are there any statistics about that. Is there any study about it and is there anything we should do about it. From Plum Island, if you come off the, they deeon.tamhiate you on the way. I don~t know if it's necessary here but there are Deer there and there is aiot more contact now. Should this be something that we should look at. Last item is taxation. Up until now, Robin's Island has been taxed the way the rest of us have been taxed. And I'm basing this on appearances, and I could he all wrong because they talked about this Unitary Island. Somewhere in this thing it seems to be a plan to eliminate part of the Island from being taxed, by calling it a preserve. And i guess this would be a tax exempt foundation of some sort. And it's a creative tax concept and if I was going on to the Island, i guess I would try to do the same thing. But whatever taxes Mr. Bacon doesn't pay the rest of us pay. So we want to be a little bit alert to what's happening, and to what the plan is. If the plan is to let it be taxed as an Island and he pay~s on the whole Island, fine. That's the end of that possibility. On the other hand, if we're going to end with 95% of the Island being a game preserve and not taxed, 5% tax. I think that you may not want to be a party to that kind of scheme, and ! think it's something to be alerted to. I know you're not the Assessor's and you don't get involved in taxatioa but what you do will effect how this Island get ,.~. taxed, i don't think the Community is looking to stick it to Mr. Page 4I January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Bacon. On the other hand, it's always paid it's taxes and we would like it To continue. Now, this &amc preserve or this preserve that it is, it's under his complete control and you can't get access to that, except with iris permission. I think that's one of the reasons why it should, because of that control, that the whole Island should be taxed. But tile vestiges we'd be getting, the signals that we are getting and the contribution that have been reported in the newspaper of a million dollars, to this major conservancy To help them manage the environment aspects of it, nature aspects of the Island, kind of indicate to me and some of my neighbors, that this is the direction that we are heading and [ think we should be alert to it. I mean, I'm not saying if you give a million dollars To someone that's a bribe. You know, you apply a women with diamonds, you know, no goes out of her vocabulary. It's a problem. The last thing [ have is just a personal observation that, I showed you a picture before, I think I'll leave it with you. I live opposite Robin's Island and always we had Deer that would swim across and visit. Now they weren't Mackay Deer, I don't think. They were Deer and they were there and they were transitory and they could come and go and they do or they used to. They don't come anymore. We didn't have any Deer last year and this whole process of, like keeping it like it was is questionable because we're not getting those Deer because they reduced the Deer population. I'm sure it's managed in a very proper way and it follows along the rules. But nature used to do that and it worked very nicely. I'm not so sure if what is happel~Sag is for the best. The other thing is, [ showed you another picture. We have a launching place and unfortunately you can't always launch. There is a big sight there that says, "Only bugs 20 feet or smaller". But here this landing ship sitting there, it's got to be 75 feet. Now, it's not Mr. Bacon fault. He doesn't tell them not to do tkis but some of the men that runs this place are arrogant. They don't care. The oil truck that was there was parked in front of the Post Office this morning, nobody could get to the Post Office without parking quite a distance away. That's not ( ) Maybe the message has to go down from him ~o his people that we do live here, and we'd like to be good neighbors but he should educate them. You know, New Suffolk will be here when Bacon's gone and he has to realize that. Thanks for permitting me to say what I have to say. Chairman: OK. We're going to request from Mr. Law that he research every one of these issues. You know, your welcome To react ro them tonight but I would rather have you extensively react to them au the next hearing. Your welcome to react to anything ar this point. Mr. Fenton: I'm not here in an official capacity representing the people in New Suffolk. I did that when I did that now. I'm here as an individual who has some neighbors who have expressed some of tt~ese things, t don't agree with all of these things. I don't mind hunting. I mean, [ do it myself. I don't have an aversion to it. I know the Historical part of Robin's Island has been hunting but the Helicopter's, those 80 foot Microwave Towers. I don't know. That's Page 42 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals not what the North Fork is for and I think that's something you have to keep in mind. Chairman: You want to ask him. Member Tortora: Would Kevin's response be part of the Environmental Assessment. Would that be appropriate? Chairman: Well, why not. He can still react to it even though it's part of the Environmental Assessment. It's part of the hearing, yeah. Thank you Mr. Fenton. Mr. Fenton: Your welcome. ~Vlr. Kevin Law: In light of the hour I'll be very brief. I'll be happy to respond more formally to some of the concerns, but I would like to address some of the things Mr. Fenton addressed very briefly if I may. First of all I want to thank h~m for raising some of the issues that he did raise~ and I thin~ some of the issues, very interesting issues and issues that we try to address and if we haven't been clear, we'll try to be clear on them. So I appreciate his taken the time to come down here tohight to share with us concerns. First of ail, as Mr. Fenton ended is exactly where Mr. Bacon wants l Mr l Bacon wants to be a good neighbor. He's trying to become a part of the New Suffolk Southold Community and he~s trying to do the right thing. That's why we've been trying over the past year to seek the input and guidance from various people in the Town before we try to implement anything. And so, we share the same goals with Mr. Fenton. To address his concerns individually. The Heiipad~ while it's not something that is within the jurisdiction of the board here. But if Mr. Fenton isn't aware that the HeHpad is located in the center of the Island near the existing structures, and the primary purpose of the Helipad is for emergency access to and from the Island. Something that in our discussions with the Cutchog~ze Fire Department they particularly raised, and they were delighted to hear that one was anticipated. And again, it's not going to be used primarily for access to the Island hut it's more designed for emergency access and that is the intent of the Helipad. As for the electricity. Again, I~H rest on the comments that you've made by Mr. Chairman and just to add to it that I think that the Environment impact of br'm~ofing cables underneath Peconic Bay would far outweigh any impact that some ignition from diesel fuel the generators would create, and we think this is a much. more environmental friendly approach to meeting electrical and energies of the Island. As for the school as Mr. Fenton properly- pointed out. The only possibility of the Island generating any school population as contained in Mr. Bacon proposal plan was. If the Caretaker was to have any children. We, Mr. Bacon would be responsible for providing access to the New Suffolk Community- and ti~at is a condition that we would certainty be willing to entertain with the staff person to the board and to your Town Attorney, and something Page 43 January 10, t996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals Like that is something that we would be willing to discuss. As for all the other buildings containing habitable ciuarters, they'll only be used periodically throughout the Summer or through the hunting season and primary on weekends and we don't see any school age population existing on the Island. As for, again I'll be brief. We're going to address more of the height issues at our next meeting. Just to ge~ on the record. As I notice someone from the media is here, is that the Water Towers and Transmission Towers. There is an exemption provision in the Town Code that exempts them from the height restrictions to the extent that we could address some of his ooncerns. We tried to address them in our Environmental Assessment and if we need to clarify something, we'll try to clarify that before the next meeting. And for the Taxation issues. Mr. Bacon pays over $100,000.00 a year in taxes. On the property right now. I beLieve about two thirds of that goes To the New Suffolk School District. I believe once Mr. Bacon begins to implement post plan and starts to construct some of the improvements that he's proposing here, that the Board of Assessors will be over there, and there is likely to be an increase in the assessed value on the Island and that's only to benefit not only the New Suffolk School District but to the Town of Southold in general, because Mr. Bacon is not going m be a demarlder of Coramut~ity services. He will be a big provided of taxes but he won't be a demander of Community service and there is no intention on Mr. Bacon's part, although he's trying to protect the environmental resources of the Island To try to take the property off the Tax Rolls and try to use any tax mechanisms to relieve himself of any property tax burden. So I wan~ you m assure the board and Mr. Fenton and other members of the public here, that that is not the intention here and I believe that the Town and New Suffolk Community will certainly make out when it comes to property Taxes. Chairman: Thank you Sir. Mr. Kevin Law: Other than that, I could address some of the other issues more specifically- at our February 6 meeting in Light of the hour and I thank you Chairman: Thank you Mr. Fenton: One prior ( ). I think at the present time the Island pays ~0% of the Suffolk School Taxes. New Suffolk spends between 3 and $400,000.00 a year. Mr. Kevin Law: The point being that Mr. Bacon pays $t00,000.00 totai. Chairman: Total Mr. Kevin Law: In property Taxes. Some of that goes, I believe 20% of that $I00,000.00 goes ro the County of Suffolk, 20% of that goes Page 44 January 10, 1996 Public Hearing Transcript Southold Town Board of Appeals to the Town of Southold and 60% of his 100 goes to reducing the hospital debt. Mr. Fenton: That's what I'm saying. If $60,000.00 came iu from him and 'that would 10%, that would mean New Suffolk is spendiu~ $6002000.00, that's not the case. Nit. Keviu Law: I don~t want to get into an argument on percenzages. I stand by the fi~zres I presented to the Town. Chairman: Thank you. I am not [ryiug to curtail any discussions may e~/sts here but t do want. We developes a new rule that at 10:15 and we have to do some delibera?$n~ and if there is somebody that is not geiug to .be at the February ? hearing, Fou're very welcome 1o make a brief commenI. If not, I'd i~ke To bid you all a geod evening and a safe home. I'll make a moJdon to contiuuin~ this hearing to February 7. AH in favor. Transcribed from Tape l~ecording by Noreen Frey RECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOV?N CLERK Town C!er~,