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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-12/06/1995 HEARINGGerard I~ Goehringer, Chairman Serge Doyen. Jr. James Dirdzio, Jr. Robert A. Villa Lydia A. Tortora BOARD OF APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD INDEX PUBLIC HEARINGS WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 6, 1995 Southold Town Hall 53095 Main Road P.O. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax (516) 765-1823 Telephone (516) 765-1809 Transcript Appeals Pages of Hearings Prepared by Noreen Frey for Name / Application the Board of 1 - 3 3 ~ 8 8 - 9 10-38 Appl. Appl. Appl. Appl. No. 4353 - HELEN RUTKOWSKI No. 4352 - PHILIP GIOIA No. 4351 - EDWARD AND JEAN ZUHOSKI No. 4354 - LOUIS MOORE BACON (Robins Island) APPEALS BOARD MEMBERS Gerard P. Goehringer, Chairman Serge Doyen. Jr. James Dinizio, Jr. Robert A. Villa Lydia A. Tortora Southold Town Hall 53095 Main Road P.O. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax (516) 765-1823 Telephone (516) 765-1809 Regular Meeting (Hearings) BOARD OF APPEALS Wed., December 6, 1995 TOVq"N OF SOUTHOLD 7:42 p.m. Appl. No. 4353 - HELEN RUTKOWSKI. This is a request, based upon the November 15, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, in which applicant was denied a building permit to add a second story and to eonvert existing boat facility-accessory building to single-family dwelling use due to prior restrictions under ZBA action #2032 dated 5/1/75 and #1954 dated 2/27/75. Location of Property: 1025 Gull Pond Lane, Greenport, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-35-4-7.2 (and 28.10). Zone District established 1/9/89: R-40 t~esidential. Chairman: I have a copy of a survey dated 2/10/76 indicating this building, updated on 9/5/75 indicating, I believe it's 24 by 24 foot building and a copy of a Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the areas. Is there somebody that would like to be heard? How are you tonight Sir? Could I ask you to state your name for the record? Mr. Don Bracken Jr: My name is Don Bracken and I'm representing Helen in this action. Chairman: record? OK. Is there something you would like to state for the Mr. Don Bracken: Just that we'd like to see this happen because it's been her residence for the last 20 years, and she would like to retire to this home. She's going to make this her full time house. Chairman: OK. Now the purpose of the second story was to bring it up to code. Is that what the purpose was? Mr. Don Bracken: Bring it up to code. Right now, you wouldn't have the square footage for residence. Chairman: Now, is this just a new roof line that we're bringing up 750 square feet or 850 square feet. Mr. Don Bracken: It should, it will be exactly above what is existing. It will be a gambrel roof. Chairtnan: Oh, OK. Mr. Don Bracken: So we can facilitate two (stories). Chairman: Is there only one kitchen in this house? Page 2 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Don Bracken: There is only one kitchen in this house, This was formally owned by two owners. Chairman: I see. Mr. Don Bracken: And now she has it. There is a copy of the deed. Chairman: Right, I relnember that. Mr. Don Bracken: Showing the transfer to her own. Chairman: OK, I just wondered why there was two front doors. That's what confused me. Mr. Don Bracken: We will move the doors so that there is a front and a back door. Chairman: I see. OK Mr. Don Bracken: Originally, it was two owners on the piece, as a boat house. It was split right down the middle. Chairman: Right. While you're up there, I guess we'll start with Mr. Villa. Mr. Villa, do you mind starting first. Member Villa: I have a problem which you're not aware of. The fact that, when this map was originally approved as Fordham Acres, many years ago, there was a note put on the map that there were about four lots along that sections that were not to be built on as a residence because they never could get to be good soil. They never could get a decent sewer system in there. So these, I can remember, my prior job. I used to work for the Health Department and ever year the developer would call me up in Spring and bring a crane up there and demonstrate to ns that they could get good soil, which they never did. And through the years what happened was, he finally persuaded us to allow the lots to be used for installation of a small boathouse. So that's how those buildings originated and they were never intended to be residences. So, I have a problem which I think has to be resolved with the Health Department because if there is a sanitary system in there now, it's very very minimal, to just accommodate a shower or something that was allowed in the boathouse. Mr. Don Bracken Jr. I've researched ~his with several people. One was Larry Tuthill, who we're going to use as the Engineer on this, he's resident. He seems to remember when this went in and when they dug the hole, he said, they did get a full system in. Also, Artie Foster who, he's the contractor who works for me. He says, he feels that he did the system and he remembers putting a full system in. That's a matter of tracking down the records. Member Villa: I spoke to the Inspector who did the job and he doesn't remember a full system going in there. I would not feel Page 3 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals comfortable unless that system is a least upgraded to meet the current standards of the Health Department as far a capacity goes. Mr. Don Bracken Jr.: Oh, absolutely. property capacity no matter what. We have to meet the Chairman: Excuse me, Bob, what do you propose then. Do you want to hold it in abeyance then, until he checks with the Health Department, to make sure that they investigate it properly. Or, what do you want to do? Member Villa: I don't know. If you want a condition on the basis that, there wouldn't be any CO issued until the system meets Health Department standards. Chairman: OK. Member Villa: It's got to be upgraded though, because as far as I know, that system is a minimal system. Chairman: OK. Jim? Member Dinizio: No, I don't have any questions. Chairman: Lydia? Member Tortora: No Chairman: develops. then, the Serge, OK. We thank you Sir, and we'll see what else I'm just going to see if anybody else wants to speak. So house will be brought up to the minimum requirements. Mr. Don Bracken Jr.: Great. We are not going to do any expansion out, strictly above. Chairman: So it's 24 by 24 times 2. Mr. Don Bracken Jr.: That's right. Chairman: OK, right. Is there anybody else that would like to speak in favor of this application? Is there any one that would like to speak against the application? Ok, hearing no comments I make a motion on closing the hearing and reserving decision. Ail in favor. You are welcomed to stay. You're all welcomed tonight and we'll do the best we can. 7:48 p.m. Appl. No. 4352 - PHILIP GIOIA. This is an appeal based OF the November 3, 1995 Notice of Disapproval from the Building Inspector in which applicant was denied permission to construct garage based upon Article lllA, Section 100-30A.4 (ref. 100-33) which requires a rear yard location. Subject premises is substandard Page 4 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meetizxg - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals in size and is virtually all front yard due to the existing rights-of-way. Location of Property: South Side of Peconic Bay Boulevard, Laurel; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-128-6-27. Chairman Goehringer: The applicant proposes a 20 by 22 foot garage approximately 15 feet of, actually it's 17 feet from its closest point to the right of way leading to the property formally owned by Warren. And approximately 38 feet from Peconic Bay Boulevard. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding Mr. Gioia: Chairman: Mr. Gioia: Chairman: Mr. Gioia: next to the Chairman: Mr. Gioia: properties in the area. Fine, fine. Thank you. You are the applicant. Yes. How are you tonight Sir? OK. You want to explain to us your problem. The problem is, I want to build a two car garage right building. OK The present garage that I have, I want to change it to living quarters. Chairman: OK. And Mr. Gioia: Plus we have need two car garage. Chairman: Do you want location as opposed to. Mr. Gioia: garage. Chairman: rear yard. Mr. Gioia: Chairman: Mr. Gioia: That's the only spot where you OK. I'm talking mainly rear yard. I don't have the rear yard. Right. And the front yard, there isn't that much space. that garage is encompassed in your house two extra cars and we have a boat. We to tell the board why you selected that could put the two car I mean, well, it's not that's the only spot that I think would be suitable for that garage. Chairman: OK Well, let's start with the questions and answers here. Mr. Doyen, do you have any questions. Member Doyen: No. Page 5 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Beard of Appeals Chairman: Mrs. Tortora? Member Tortora: How close is the existing line. It's not clear on the map. Mr. Gioia: How close is the existing garage? Chairman: The one that's in the house? Mr. Gioia: Well I would say, about 15 feet. garage to the property Member Tortora: Chairman: OK Member Tortora: Chairman: Mr. Gioia: Chairman: It's not indicated on the map. He said, to the new garage. You're talking about the new garage. The new garage, about 15 feet. Plus or minus. I don't have any questions. This is a one story structure. Yes, Mr. Dinizio. Member Dinizio: Which way are the doors going to be facing, which way are the garage doors going to be facing, the street or are you going to come out the side? Mr. Gioia: They will be facing west, not the street. Member Dinizio: OK. I see you got the right of way here. Are you going to be backing out on to that right of way? Chairman: No, he doesn't have a right of way over there. Member Dinizio: OK. I see a right of way here. Mr. Gioia: A right of way is going to the beach. Member Dinizio: OK I see that. Mr. Gioia: It's in the back. Chairman: That actually goes into Journey's End itself. Member Dinizio: Right. Chairman: Which now belongs to George McDowell. Member Dinizio: OK Chairman: I don't mean that sarcastically. Page 6 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Member Dinizio: No, he's going to use-. Chairman: End. Mr. Gioia: Chairman: no, no. I just couldn't figure that, whether This is a very unique piece of property, this Journey's It's a irregular lot. Mr. Villa? Member Villa: Is there any reason you couldn't move it back closer to the house? Mr. Gioia: Closer to the house. Well, I have a driveway and I don't know if you went to see the property. Member Villa: Yeah, you got a couple of white .marks on the driveway where the corner is going to be. Mr. Gioia: White marks. Member Villa: Right Mr. Gioia: Did you see them? Member Villa: Yes I did. The driveway actually goes further South than that. Mr. Gioia: Well, there is a cesspool nearby. I don't want to be too close to the cesspool. Member Villa: The cesspool is right out in front of the house according to the Map here. Mr. Gioia: And, if it needs repairs, trucks have to go to it. MEMBER Villa: Go to what? Trucks go to what? Mr. Gioia; If the cesspool needs to be replaced. Member Villa: You can get in off the right of way, right. Mr. Gioia: If you want me to move a little closer, I'll do it. ~hair~nan: Bob, that access is for the entrance to Journey's End. Member Villa: Yeah, all right. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Not anybody can use it (with vehicles). Chairman: You have a right of way over that walking path right of way, to get to the beach? Page 7 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - Dece~nber 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Gioia: Yes. Chairman: But you don't have a driving right-of-way, no. Mrs. Tortora had a question. Member Tortora: No, I just wondered along the same lines as Bob was asking, why you couldn't move it further in. You have two different dimensions on the map. You have it 17 feet from the right of way and then you have it 15 feet from the right of way. So, that we can establish a clear line. Mr. Gioia: Thirteen feet. Member Tortora: No, on your map you have. Mr. Gioia: Can I approach the bench. Chairman: Sure. Member Tortora: You have 17 feet and below that you have 15 feet. Secretary: It's probably the angle, Lydia. The angle of the garage. Member Tortora: But is there any reason why you couldn't move it over further, this way? Mr. Gioia: Further, over this way. Member Tortora: Yes. Mr. Gioia: We have an entrance, you know. The entrance is going to be so narrow. This way it will be bigger and it's on the side. It doesn't bother anybody and I'm away from the right of way, away from the street which is about 38 feet. Secretary Linda Kowalski: I think you're normally required to be 15 feet away for a half acre lot. He's not any less than the normal requirements. Member Tortora: If he did that, he's going to come closer over here. Chairman: Yeah, it's not really a bad location at all. Member Tortora: It's about the only place. Chairman: Yeah. What kind of utility would you be putting in this structure, just electric. Mr. Gioia: Just electric. It will be a simple garage just to put the cars in there and a few more, nothing elaborate. Chairman: Wonderful, thank you, Sir. Page 8 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Gioia: Thank you. Chairman: Is there anyone else that would like to speak in favor of this application? Anyone like to speak against the application? Anyone want to address this or do you want to go on. Bob, do you want to hold it off or what? Member Villa: I don't care. Member Dinizio: No, let's do it. Chairman: Do you want to make the motion Jim? Member Dinizio: Yes, I'll make the motion to go with as applied, utility electric. Chairman: The utility electric. I'll seconded it. All in favor Aye. You got it. Have a lovely evening. Mr. Gioia: Thank you. Do I get anything in the mail? Chairman: Yes, we'll send you a decision and then you can apply for a building permit. Mr. Gioia: Thank you. Hearing continued from 11/8/95: Apph 3451 - EDWARD AND JEAN ZUHOSKI. This is a Variance requesting relief under Article XXIV, Section 100-244B for extension of existing carport which would be located with a reduced front yard setback on this nonconforming lot (substandard lot area and width). 18250 Country Road 48, Cutchogue, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-96=4.1.1 Chairman: Mr. Zuhoski, how are you tonight? I think we're ail set here. Is there anything else you wanted to say before we close the hearing? Mr. Zuhoski: Not really. Chair~nan: All right. OK. Just briefly, I want to go to your original record here that you filled out. The proposed carport is 10 feet into the side yard and 12 feet wide. Mr. Zuhoski: Great Chairman: Which means that, you have a total of 33 feet on that side to the property line which would mean that you're going to be 23 feet from the property line. Mr. Zuhoski: Right. Page 9 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: This is going to be a similar carport to what you took off in the back and you're moving over to the side, right. Mr. Zuhoski: Right Chairman: OK Does anyone have any questions on Mrs. Zuhoski on this? OK. We apologize for holding this off so long. I know, Winter is coming. I even felt that badly when I went by today on my way to the Town Hall. Does anybody want to say anything? OK. I'll offer a resolution to grant it as applied for. Question, no. OK All in favor Aye. Have a lovely evening Sir. Mr. Zuhoski: Thank you Chairman: Your welcome. 7:57 p.m. - Hearing continued from 11/8/95 - Appl. #4347 - DORIS KERR BROWN Relocation of house at less than the required 100 ft. from Sound bluff. 3400 Private Road off N/S Bergen Avenue, Mattituck. Recessed without a date pending further notification on whether or not a relocation was possible for a building permit. Page 10 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:57 p.m. ~ LOUIS MOORE BACON Project for Robins Island. CHAIRMAN: We want to study the plan prior to the commencement of the hearing in the audience. The plan is up before us so, maybe we'll take a two or three minute recess and walk and get ready to go, we'll do that, ok. I need a motion to do that. All board members were in favor. 8:10 p.m. Appl. of LOUIS MOORE BACON (ROBINS ISLAND). The Chairman read the legal notice and application for the record. This application is based upon the October 31, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, the grounds for which read as follows: A.2 Boat House, BI.I Garage, C.1 Recreation Building, E.4 Garage with staff quarters: all exceed 18' height limitation for accessory structures, Article 111, Section 100-33A. E.1 Family Vacation Home exceeds height limitation of 35 ft. as stated in the Bulk Schedule for an R-400 Zone (as principal building). E.1 Family Vacation Home, B.1 Lane House, C.7 Caretaker Cottage. E.4 Garage with staff quarters: One family Dwelling not to exceed one (1) dwelling on each lot under Permitted uses in an R-400 Zone. Action required by the Zoning Board of Appeals... Location of Property: Robins Island, near North Race of Great Peconic Bay, Town of Southold, NY; County Parcel ID No. 1000-134-3-5, containing 434 +- acres. Chairman Goehringer: We want to welcome the gentlemen here representing Louis Moore Bacon. We have several maps indicating the particular position of the buildings and the location of the buildings proposed. And we have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Plus we have this architectural rendering in front of us. I think we are ready, Mr. Law. Kevin Law, Esq.: Thank you Mr. Chairman. My name is Kevin S. Law, Nixen, Hargraves, Devins,and Doyle, Garden City, New York attorney for Mr. Bacon. I want to thank you very much for having us here tonight, and just to give you some background. It's about two years ago this month that Mr. Bacon acquired the Island. He's been proceeding, I think, in a way that you will find very responsible. He's been, I guess you could call it, doing his "homework" first. He's been trying to determine- he's trying to under, stand the Island. Over the past few years, he's commissioned a lot of different studies Environmental Studies, Engineering Page 11 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Studies, Hydrological Studies, to get an understanding for the Island. And then over this past year, 1995 we - I ~nean, we have sort of a project team here, Jim Thompson, the Architect, chief among them, spent the entire year talking to Town Officials, Member(s) of this Board, Members of the Planning Board, the Town Attorney's office, to get some input and to get some suggestions from the various Town officials. And when we tried to incorporate all of that into our plan before we finally submitted it to the Town about a month ago. One of the constant themes throughout all our discussions with the various Town Officials was to, if we could, avoid subdivision of tile Island and to try to work within the existing code. And so, we've tried to be creative in our submittals to you, to try to achieve that goal with both Mr. Bacon and the Town. How we would like to proceed tonight if it's OK with the Board is I'd like to have Jim Thompson first come and give a little bit of the overview of the plan itself. And then, again, if it pleases the board, t would like to spend a few minutes and try to demonstrate why we are entitled to the variances that the Building Department suggests we seek. Mr. Chairman, if that's OK with you. Chairman: Fine. Mr. Kevin Law: I'd like to present Jim Thompson now to discuss the plan. James Thompson, A.I.A.: Good evening. My name is Jim Thompson, I'm architect and project manager for Louis Bacon, office is in Greenwich,Connecticut. I'll try to keep this brief because there's not a lot of new information from what we tried to communicate at the site inspection, but hopefully this presentation makes it a little more tangible than a two dimensional map. As described in the map, we can see four basic areas of the facility development on the Island which have been located and organized in an effort to avoid disturbance of any critical environmental areas alld avoid fragmentation of biotic communities on the Island that are deemed to be important to the overall Island ecology so they're is conformance to the owner's goal of having a family residential compound, with an agricultural component that is suitable to location in a critical environment area, which Robins Island was designated by Suffolk County Legislature. So, what we have in scope then is a proposed boathouse and a storage building located at the North end of the Island adjacent to the existing pier. And this is a multipurpose structure that, as we said would be used for vehicle and marine equipment storage and also would be primary location for, what we call community services on the Island, which would be fire protection, life safety and security. North of the boathouse, what we call area B is envisioned as the primary location of guest quarters and what we call the sporting center or hunting center of the Island use as a family compound, Page 12 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals have this aspect to it as a licensed shooting preserve and there is a lot of winter activity associated with that and these. This complex is principally composed of existing structures that are to be renovated. We are seeking variances for two of the new accessories MR. THOMPSON, continued :ut there, which are garage and mechanical services to the Lane Lodge which is known as the shingled structure on the building which was started in the early part of the century and never completed. The center of the Island, what we call the operation center or farm complex, is a fairly substantial list of agricultural buildings proposed, renovation of the two primary agricultural buildings that exist there, and then the construction of the new caretaker's bungalow, farm compound, a communications water tower that's proposed to house telecommunications and fire protection components, and the recreation building for winter time use and indoor sports recreation for family and guests. And then the last component, located on the Southwesterly portion of the Island is what we call the family vacation house, which is actually a complex of three structures: the residence itself, a pool house and a garage with staff apartment and quarters on the second floor. The fourth component of that complex would be an in-ground swimming pool. And as I said, there is a fairly, guess a total of nine height and use variances that are requested and I'll let Kevin describe that because he's more succinct at that. If there are any questions at this point in the materials that have been submitted, that you had a chance to revie~r that I could possibly answer that I could clarify any of these facilities? Chairman: I'm completely guilty of this because we kind of rushed over the boathouse because of the wind velocity on Saturday. It was my understanding that the boathouse was going to be a drive thru? Mr. Thompson: Yes. Chairman: OK, so. In other words, there will be no roads on either side of it. It will be an actual drive thru? Mr. Thompson: There is proposed to be a ramp on the Eastern side that would allow access to the beach. There is an existing ramp to the beach on the eastern side. Chairman: Right. Right. Mr. Jim Thompson: That is proposed to be continued in use. Chairman: OK. Mr. Thompson: There was a necessity since that is the only point of access for supplies and equipment to the Island, to have some variety of - I mean, we currently use a landing craft to bring all supplies and material. Page 13 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Our long term goal is, to minimize or discontinue use of the landing craft and be able to supply the Island on a periodic basis, using a chartered commercial ferry boat, like South Ferry from Shelter Island, which we think over the long term operation - and frank]y, I can't really take credit for inventing that because that because this is how Gardiners Island is supplied and we've had the benefit of trying to learn from their experience over the years. And they are supplied three to four times a year by charter and Ferry boat and it comes over pretty much everything they need is brought in on that kind of frequency. So, we're anticipating emulating that and so on that basis and given exposure of the site, we felt that this was the most compact massing scheme having looked at the idea of having three or four separate structures for storage or garage or whatever. It spread tkings out and made it a much bigger impact on the site. Chairman: OK. There will be access on both sides of it though, if fire vehicles have to be brought on site? Mr. Thompson: Correct. Chairman: OK Mr. Thompson: If we needed for example to bring emergency vehicles in by landing craft, then there would be access from the beach for that. Chairman: OK, and the actual height of the doors in the boathouse? Mr. Jim Thompson: Fourteen feet. Chairman: OK, and the actual height of the boathouse? Mr. Jim Thompson: The actual height - we're asking for variance to 35 feet. Chairman: That's a mean figure again? Mr. Jim Thompson: Yes, comparable to what is normal on a principal structure on a residential lot. Chairman: Right. OK. Secretary L. Kowalski: Is that one story or two story? Cbairman: It's really one story, right? Mr. Jim Thompson: It's one story with a mezzanine. Actually, there's a two story volume in the center and we're proposing a 1500 square foot mezzanine around the perimeter of that volume for storage and sail, loft, supplies and things. Chairman: OK, not for office area. Page 14 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Jim Thompson: No. Chairman: OK. The vacation house, we've been calling it that. It's really going to be the main stay of the entire Island. Member Tortora: The principal stay. Mr. Jim Thompson: We're proposing it to be considered the principal use or principal facility on the property. Chairman: Right. Chairman: That's going to be how large in square footage? Mr. Jim Thompson: We're estimating 10,000. to 12,000 square feet, pins the accessories. Chairman: And the accessory building, I have it here. A garage with staff quarters at approximately 5,000 square feet, that cubic feet, 1250 right? Now, that second story, that both stories, total. Mr. Jim Thompson: That's both stories, yes. Chairman: And how many bedroom areas would be anticipated on the second floor. Mr. Jim Thompson: One. It's equivalent to the studio apartment for periodic use by the household staff. It's like a little efficiency apartment. Primary, you know, like a main room, one bedroom and one bath. Chairman: OK, and the swimming pool is how large. Oh, I have that here, 4000. Mr. Jim Thompson: 4,000 square feet. Chairman: And the cabana is 850. And that will house very simply normal sanitary facilities. Mr. Jim Thompson: And there's a powder room there for changing room, and basically it's a shade structure for people. Chairman: Will there be any heat in that at all, do you know? Mr. Jim Thompson: Not anticipating heat in that. Chairman: OK, and just briefly back to the operations area with the large utility area. We're talking about, how many bedrooms in there? Mr. Jim Thompson: We're proposing on the Western side of the farm compound, which is structure C4, to have a dormitory facility with four staff rooms. Again, this will be used principally in the Winter time for over night and water fowl guides and hunting staff that. We Page 15 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals currently are experiences some real concerns from a safety standpoint, of having to transport people to the Island, yes sometimes, 4:00 o'clock or 4:30 in the morning in foul weather. Chairman: Sure. Mr. Jim Thompson: In foul weather which causes a certain amount of trepidation on my part. Chairman: It was interesting last Saturday, and that was during the day. Mr. Jim Thompson: And Saturday was very nice. Chairman: Yes, it was. (changed tape) (Chairman continued to speak question was not audible. ) Mr. Jim Thompson: It's the only structure on the Island that's inhabited on a year round, full time basis. All the other facilities, the family house, the staff quarters and the guest quarters would only be occupied on a periodic basis. Chairman: OK. And the little buildings that we saw there now, they will actually be taken down? The first aid building? And - Mr. Jim Thompson: Right there, there are a number of the old fur coups and other minor agriculture dependencies, that are proposed in the plan to be demolished. Chairman: OK, but the existing barn to the East of that will be incorporated into that compound. Mr. Jim Thompson: Yes, actually you can see on the Model, we made an effort to differentiate. The darker colored structures, are existing structures to be renovated, and the lighter colors are proposed new structures. Chairman: Great. Wonderful. Mr. Jim Thompson: So, at this point, we made a determination that if it's feasible, feasibility being relative to economics, Mr. Bacon is made a commitment that all related structures on the Island, will be incorporated into the scheme and renovated. Chairman: Except for Duck Inn. Mr. Jim Thompson: Duck Inn we actually consider a minor structure. But, that's located here and it is proposed for demolition. Page 16 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Great. Just not to bring you, we can bring you back and forth. Does anybody have any questions? Member Villa: Go ahead. Keep it going. Chairman: You want to go. I guess we'll leave it at the point Jim, and we thank you, all right. Member Villa: I thought you were still asking questions. Chairman: No, I'm all done. You want to ask a question? Member Villa: Yes, I had a question. You're basically going to be hunting on the Island and I read somewhere in the proposal, that it's going to be basically, shotguns. Mr. Jim Thompson: Correct. Member Villa: But you're also going to have a rifle range. Mr. Jim Thompson: We are proposing a target range. Member Villa: Is it going to be enclosed. Mr. Jim Thompson: It's outdoor. Member Villa: It's distance if they're shotgun is basically outdoor. My concern is that rifles carry a long discharged in the wrong direction. Whereas a a short ranged weapon. Mr. Jim Thompson: Correct. Member Villa: I'd be a little concerned. You know, somebody shooting a rifle anywhere in Suffolk County, they can carry two miles. You can do some damage. What kind of precautions are you taking on that? Mr. Jim Thompson: Well, the siting on the proposed range is here on the Eastern side of the Island and the site we selected specifically to allow there to be - there is a steep embankment behind that site and there would be a back stop and the range itself would be constructed to current indoor range design standards. In terms of back stop, it's over a mile and a half to Cow Neck from that location. So, in the remote possibility that there was a ricochet or a false discharge from the location, I think we're well within any contemporary safety standards for a commercial range operation. Again, this is not something that is a commercial facility at all. Member Villa: No, t realize that. You're still discharging a weapon and they carry a long way. That was my concern. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Is that regulated by the State, for licensing. Page 17 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Jim Thompson: Not it's not. It's allowed, it's an allowed use on a agricultural properties just for recreational. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Just on Robins Island? Usually in Suffolk County you don't have rifle hunting. I was curious. My husband likes to hunt. Mr. Jim Thompson: We're not proposing rifle hunting, just target allowed. Secretary L. Kowalski: Oh, you're not hunting, just target shooting. I was just curious. Thanks. Chairman: Great, OK. Anybody else. Member Doyen: How do you travel about the Island, your previsions are landed there. How do you get them to the main stretch? Mr. Jim Thompson: Let me turn this around. This will help. It's a little larger scale. You'll see on the map, tile road system is delineated in two colors. There is a primary road system which is tile darker brown, which would be a minimum of 13 foot widths. All the facilities on the Island are accessible by an unpaved road that meets County standards for emergency vehicle access. And then there is the second roads that are not adjacent tO the facilities, are held to a 10 foot width to minimize entrance. It's pretty much a one way road system, except for that. There actually has been a commitment by the owner to put in a substantial reduction in the nulnber of roads, and the amount of vehicle traffic on the Island. So at this point, we're--(interrupted). Member Doyen: useable. So, what's down on those roads are passable and Mr. Jim Thompson: Based on existing roads, all of them are being made passable. In fact, there has been a fairly substantial investment this year to upgrade those roads and make them all weather using basically a sand bed and loam topping from material that sits on the Island itself. Me~nber Villa: So basically you're using materials that won't generate a lot of run off? Mr. Jim Thompson: Correct. There's not intended to be any paved roads at all on the Island. In fact, roads that were adjacent to regulated wetlands are closer to the shoreline and have either been demolished or being relocated out of regulated and adjacent reg~dated areas at the owner's initiative. Chairman: OK. Page 18 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Kevin Law, Esq.: For the rest of the presentation would it be convenient for the board to have this facing them, and turn these all around or would you rather it face the public? Chairman: No, let them face the public that's fine. Uniess you're directing it to us. Thank you. Kevin Law, Esq.: I'll be brief with my further comments. I know I don't need to educate the board about certain provisions of the code, but it may be educational for the members of the public hearing here, and if they'll just indulge me, I'd just like to make a couple of points. As you know, in Robins Island is situated in the R400 District and permitted uses in the R400 District are residential structures, agricultural operations and accessory buildings, and I think it's important to note that Mr. Bacon's plan only includes those types of activities. Also, in that Zoning Code, however, one family detached dwellings are limited to one per lot, and therein lies the challenge to both Mr. Bacon and the board. How do we address that issue? Robin's Island, for those who don't know is viewed as one parcel and one lot in the eyes of the Town. So we have a 435 acre lot that under the Zoning Code is technically only allowed one residential dwelling unit. Traditionally there have been five dwelling units on Robins Island. All the existing structures on Robins Island predate the enactment of the code; and Mr. Bacon's plan calls for only six structures containing habitable quarters. And so, it's only one more than what has historically been on the Island and that's what the plan calls for. The only year round structure containing the dwelling unit would be the caretaker's cottage. All other structures would only be used periodically, throughout the year by either Mr. Bacon, his family, guests, shooting ~tests, or staff. But, as you know, Mr. Bacon now cannot utilize some of these structures without coming into conflict with the code. So one of the things that we would like to discuss with you tonight is, we'd like to see, we think the Building Department erroneously designated the Mackay Cottage as the principal building on the property. What we would like, our first preference would be, if the board would designate the new vacation home as the principal building on the property, and have all the other structures and those that aren't construed as Agricultural buildings be considered accessory structures, or accessory buildings, even those that contain some habitable quarters and that would be our initial request to the board. And I note, that in the code, the purpose of the code, it's stated in the very beginning of the code, is to encourage flexibility in the design in the development of land and to preserve large amounts of open space. And I tl~ink this plan does exactly that. We would ask that the board exercise its discretion and so designate the vacation home as the principal building, and again have ail others be accessory thereto. MR. LAW, continued: I know the board will not be making decisions tonight and so if the board is not so inclined to view it as ! just stated, I'd like to discuss reasons why we would be entitled to a Page 19 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 $outhold Town Board of Appeals variance for those other structures, if he didn't see it the way I just described. I think there is a distinguishing between, I know there is there is a legal distinguishing between a use variance and an area variance. And I think what we have here, excuse me, let me back up one minute. As you know, for those in public that don't know. The Building Department suggested that we come to the board for nine different variances. Five height variances for various accessory buildings that exceed the 18 foot llmit and one of those height variances for the vacation home which exceeds the 35 foot limit. In addition the Building Department suggested that we seek four use variances from the board for those structures containing habitable quarters. All except the Mackay house, which they construed as the principal building in which we disagreed with. So they are encouraging us to get those use variances. I'd like to maintsin that really, what's only required is an area variance for those structures because a residential use in a residential district should not require a use variance. You know, area variances can include density issues. Residential units are permitted in this district and that's what we're seeking here. The essential use of 1~obins Island is not being changed. It's the area that being changed. And the reason I try to make that distinguishing is because of the standards and what standards you have to meet in order for you to approve our variances, and if you viewed that as an area variance, the less stringent standard of practical difficulties applies - which doesn't mean that we're not prepared to demonstrate unnecessary hardship, if you disagree with that rational thinking that I just explained to you. And I don't want to repeat all our information in our submittals. I trust that you have read them or will be reviewing them and I don't want to overburden you with things that are already in our submittal. So, for those unnecessary hardship issues, I'll rely on our submittals. Although, there is one interesting point I think that needs to be addressed here and that is, some of the structures that already exist, if not granted a variance to utilize them, you know, Mr. Bacon will not, he certainly won't be able to realize the return of his investment because he'll be left with the choice of demolishing the building or keeping the building vacant and having to pay property taxes on it. And so, those are say for the Lane House comes to mind for that use variance. So I think we also meet the criteria for unnecessary hardship from tile variances we seek. Although, I think we only need to demonstrate the practical difficulties standards of an area variance. Again, if you'd like I could go into the reasons why I think we're entitled to variances for each of the nine that we seek or I could rest on our submittals which contains all the information and the reasons why I think we are entitled to, and spend the time here tonight for Jim & I to answer some of your questions. But, I'm really willing to do what the board chooses. Page 20 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - Dece~nber 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals And if they do choose to start asking us ctuestions now, I'll conclude and (interrupted). Chairman: I think you should address some of the reasons for the height. Ok? Kevin Law Esq.: For the height variances. Chairman: Yes. suggesting that. i'm not telling you what to do but, I'm just Kevin Law Esq: We've been seeking suggestions for the past years and they have all been helpful as well and that one is helpful as well. Height variances - five are required, the boathouse being one of them. I think, the way Jim described the boathouse before I'm not sure if he addressed those issues. I think he addressed some of those issues of concern, of why we need a height variance there. Primarily, from a Public safety and life safety point of view, we'd like it to be tall enough to have emergency vehicles to be able to egress or ingress into, and onto the Island. I think also, for those who don't know, there used to be structures right around that same area where the boathouse is proposed. I think the old brick kennel building used to be there and so not that it's a resurrection of a similar type building, but it won't be the first time there would be a building there. But the primary reason we'd seek the height variance is for the emergency access and also because Mr. Bacon is trying to design the Island to be self sufficient. Whereas he's, you know, not to rely on the mainland for the provision of many services, if any services. We're going to need goods and services coming to the Island. So depending upon the size of the truck bringing that goods or service, or some type of delivery to the Island, we think we need the height variance i'or that structure. Chairman: OK. Kevin Law Esq.: That's the boathouse. As Jim said about 35 feet at the mean. Two other accessory buildings variances are in what we're referring to as Area B, the hunting lodge area and they are the garage and the mechanical services building to the Lane Lodge. And here we're seeking I believe a very insubstantial variance of two feet. The buildings as designed are proposed to be twenty feet, which is two feet above that permitted under the code for an accessory building. And these buildings would go a long way in helping us restore the Lane Lodge which the Town has been encouraging us to do. Of all of the informal talks we've had, they have been very happy that Mr. Bacon intends to restore the Lane Lodge, the Lane house that Mr. Lane, back 60 or maybe 80 years ago. What was it Jim, 19177 Mr. Jim Thompson. 1919. Kevin Law Esq.: Seventy Five years ago had once started and so since the Lane house itself is about 34 feet and change, these Page 21 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals buildings will be behind it and that 20 feet I really believe that's not a substantial variance and we need those two additional feet the way the building has been designed. To help us with our restoration of the Lane Lodge and also to help us serve and meet the Health and Welfare of the occupants on the Island, because one will be mechanical services building providing -to be utilized as space for both the Lane lodge and I think also to provide some accommodations to the Mackay area. Chairman: So what you're saying is, there will be no visual impact. Mr. Kevin Law: I don't believe there will be any visual impact on them, especially as I said. If you remember, that was finally when it got warm on Saturday, and we finally went through the Lane lodge. It's in the backyard and that's where those two buildings are proposed. And right, I don't think there will be any visual impact especially since they will be almost 15 feet smaller than the immediate adjacent building. Chairman: For the public, everyone should be aware that this building is in miraculous condition for its age, and the status of what it was left at in 1919. Mr. Kevin Law: It surely is, and Mr. Bacon would like to see it restored if we get that use variance. The next building that requires a height variance is the recreation building. That's in the C area off to the Northwest of the farm center and although some may view the entire Island as one big park, there are no recreational facilities on the Island. For those who don't know, Mr. Bacon has four small children and again since there are no playgrounds or parks on the Island, he wants to provide for the recreational needs of his children as well as his family and g~ests who come onto the Island. And since a lot of the activities, some of the most opportune times when Mr. Bacon desires to be on the Island, during the cold weather months, during the hunting season, there's an necessity for enclosed recreation space, and there is plans for an indoor tennis court. And I'm not a tennis player but it's my understanding that for indoor tennis courts they need to be of a certain height. Jim, maybe you could help me out on this one? The height requirement for a structure containing indoor tennis courts. Also this particular building, most of you who were with us on Saturday, if you remember, were nestled so far into the woods and into the center of the Island, that we believe it will not be visible from the, you know, the mainland. Chairman: What's the height on that facility. Kevin Law Esq: That's proposed at 45 feet. Cl~airman: Great. Secretary Linda Kowalski: What building is that next to? P~ge 22 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Member Dinizio: C 2 Secretary: C 2, OK. I have it. Chairman: So no visual impact. Kevin Law Esq: No, no undesirable change to the community. The next height variance is for the garage which will contain the studio staff quarters and the family area. This structure is proposed to be 25 feet, so this is going to be seven feet higher than that committed on the code, 18 feet for an accessory building and this is proposed to be 25 feet. Again, I think it's not a substantial variance at seven feet considering the size of the Island. There are no neighbors. It won't be visible from the mainland. It will be smaller than the proposed height of the family vacation house, and again they'll be. It will be set back a little bit into the forest and there will be some plantings on top of the bluff in front of both the vacation home and the garage, which we believe also, provides some cover for structure. Chairman: OK Mr. Jim Thompson: The last structure that the Building Department is suggesting is that we come to you and seek a variance for, is for the height of the vacation home, which is as, either Jim or I eluded to before, as proposed to 45 feet. Ten feet higher than that pertnitted under the code. Here again, considering the size and the uniqueness of the Island and the fact that, it's really truly the only new dwelling unit that Mr. Bacon proposes for the Island and the use that he construes as being his principal use of the Island, would feel like it's not a substantial request. Again, we feel that we have a taller building. It will be a smaller building footprint and again we seek to construct this to be lower than the tree line. Mr. Kevin Law Esq: Jim, can i interject your point. Mr. Thompson: Absolutely. Kevin Law Esq: There are two mitigating factors that have influence on our request for this variance. First, is a commitment on the part of the owner to keep the structure way back on top of the bluff. The topography of this particular site slopes from west to east which is away from the top of the bluff. So, given that the regulations stipulate that the height of the structure is measured from the average grade around the perimeter to the mean height of the bridge. What we propose to do is keep the structure well back from the top of the bluff, which does induce us to want to raise the name living floor, so that there are views out from the principal rooms over the vegetated buffer to remain over the top of the bluff. So we feel some of this height is a trade off to making concessions to what has been at least what we've been instructed is, good practice in working in adjacent area on a high bluff. In terms of maintaining a vegetated buffer of the native vegetation at the top of the bluff and [)age 23 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 $outhold Town Board of Appeals the setback from the top of the bluff, which as proposed exceeds that which is required under the current regulations. But it does throw us into a situation where if the ground fails away, you sort of need to average that out by elevating the building somewhat. Chairman: We can only use a norm. I can only use a norm of Nassau Point which of course is pretty close to you on that one side. On the Easterly side. And there are some houses over there, that are multi story. When t say multi, more than two. Is tkis house going to be more than two story's. Kevin Law Esq: It's proposed as two and one half. It's listed in our application as 2.5 with the half story by definition being, those rooms being under the rafters that would have light and air performers. Chairman: OK Thank you. Mr. Jim Thompson: In summer, in height variances, we truly believe tbat they don't pose no threat to the health, safety and welfare of the community. That there is no undesirable change to either the Island or to the locality, and that the variances are not substantial especially in light of the size of the property. That there will be no environmental impacts. The essential character of the neighborhood and the Island, will remain the same. Chairman: OK. Good Mr. Jim Thompson: Those are the height variances. Chairman: Good. Mr. Jim Thompson: Be prepared to further elaborate on the acquirable quarters, structures containing acquirable quarters if you like or I could rest on my submissions for those. Chairman: No, give us a brief synopsis just brief. Mr. Jim Thompson: Again, the Building Department viewed the Mackay cottage, Mackay lodge, as the principal building and did not require us to seek a variance on this particular unit or structure. The biggest point that some people do that. Chairman: Mrs. Tortora has a question. Member Tortora: How did that determination come about. I can't find that in the records that the Mackay cottage became the principal building. Mr. Jim Thompson: It was there belief. We didn't get a real lot of time to discuss it with them. That the Mackay cottage had to be principal building because a vacation home isn't built yet and they thought that historically, although the Mackay cottage was once the Page 24 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals caretakers. I believe it was space for caretakers and eventually under John Mackay it became more of the principal dwelling. Member Dinizio: If this is your building permit, this is what he should have disapproved and he didn't. He didn't disapprove the failure. It seems to me he didn't even consider it. I mean, you put a plan in for the whole Island. Kevin Law Esq: Right Member Dinizio: And then he comes back and says, even though you want this to be your principal area, which is what you intend to use. It says intended for residential use. Kevin Law Esq: Right Member Dinizio: I'm trying to figure out, why that wasn't considered. Secretary Linda Kowalski: I think I know the answer to that. I don't think there was a request in there to change from the existing established dwelling to the new vacation house. There was no request to him for that. So he assumed that the established dwelling if still going to be principal use. That probably just his in his understanding. Does that explain to him just before he disapproved that. Kevin Law Esq: If I could just refer you to page 3 of that same application Mr. Dinizio. Member Dinizio: Yeah Kevin Law Esq: And there we have Mackay cottage as B 2 and there if you see intended use, there we put accessory. Member Dinizio: Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. here, everyone of these has accessory except E, area say residential. Everything E which you Kevin Law Esq: Right. It appears to me, I haven't spoken to the Building Department since they issued "Notice of Disapproval". It would seem to me yes, that they denied our request to construe vacation home as the principal building. Member Dinizio: OK Kevin Law Esq: And they are construing the Mackay home as the principal building. Me~nber Dinizio: Right, ok, but in there disapproval they don't mention that. They just say family vacation home. They don't say that it's going to be residential part of it. Page 25 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary Linda Kowalski: They say that 35 foot height requirement would apply. So if it's a 35 foot height requirement, that would be the principal building. Member Dinizio: Well, there saying Lane house. Secretary Linda Kowalski: That's what that disapproval says, right. It says, E 1, family vacation home exceeds the height limitation of 35 feet. That means, that they are assuming that to be the principal use. Kevin Law Esq: If that's the way the board wants to construe it, of course I'd have no problem with that and I did want to share with you that, what our discussions were with them. Member Tortora: There is nothing in the application. I have the same questions that Jim has. There is nothing in the notice of disapproval that states that the Mackay building is viewed as a principal use. There is nothing in the notice of disapproval that sites any portion of the code that even refers to use variance. The proportion of the code sited for notice of disapproval, on one lot one dwelling unit per lot. Member Dinizio: Right Member Tortora: My question to you is this. rf this was, I personally don't view this as a use variance because you're not varying the use or the intended use of the land. The intended use of tile land is single kind of dwellings and residential etc. as you pointed out. On the other hand, if the board was to view it that way, the area variances as opposed to use variance, three years down tile road, four years down the road, what's to prevent you from coming back and saying, we want another accessory dwelling here, here, here, here, here, and here. How many would you be opposed to covenants and restrictions precluding that, down the road? Because it is, right now we're into how many accessory uses and dwellings. Kevin Law Esq: We are into a number. To answer your first question, at this point in time, yes, I would be opposed to covenants and restrictions. To answer your second question. Yes, we are proposing six structures that contain habitable quarters, which is one more than that which historically existed on the Island. Chairman: OK Member Dinizio: I can understand, you know not wanting covenant and restrictions. Can you just give me a rough estimate, just how many lots you could subdivide this up into? I know there was a study at onetime done. Kevin Law Esq: No, it's an excellent question. Right now, there are approximately 435 acres on the property. As you know, R400 is Page 26 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southeld Town Board of Appeals 10 acre zoning which we believe is the only privately held parcel in that category. I think the former owners might have been asleep at the switch, when the Town tried to rezone the property. The, I think the yield. What we would have to do is submit a yield not to the Planning Board. I think a reasonable yield based on the plans that tile County were kicking around about five years ago, when they were trying to do the settlements of the lawsuits. I think 30 would be a reasonable number of the maximum yield of the property. So, you couldn't just take a straight 43 from 435. You know, there are some limited features on the Island that you wouldn't be able to get the yield off of with the wetlands and things. Member Dinizio: Right Kevin Law Esq: But ! think there is about 309 acres of buildable property on the Island and if you divide that by 10, I think you'd probably come up with 30 as a reasonable number for a reasonable yield of the property. Member Dinizio: Then, what would it be, I guess. I'm thinking myself, that you wouldn't have to be here if it weren't for the fact that you want height variances. If you subdivided this land, you could build everything here and more, with the exception of the height. You would have to come to us for a variance of the height. Everything else would be covered under any subdivision, am I. Kevin Law Esq: No, you are absolutely correct. Member Dinizio: You're setbacks are all wonderful. Even from the house it's 120 feet from the bluff. You only need 75. So, the only real reason that you are here is, would be here is that, the fact you don't want to subdivide it. No one seems to think that's that a good idea, you or anybody else and the fact that you want to build the houses higher than the mean height level that the Town allows. Is that pretty much. Kevin Law Esq: It's an excellent observation and you're correct because, again, we spent the past year. I think the people at Town Hall got sick of seeing me because we were picking the brains of the various Planning officials and Zoning and the Town Attorney's office, to get their input and it was always encouraged to us. If you could maintain the Historical single family owner, estate of Robin's Island, and avoid subdivision, you know, the Town would be most grateful. Yes you're right. If we were seeking a subdivision, the only reason we would need to come back before the board would be for the various height variances. Member Dinizio: How close to you as far as. I guess I should have asked Jim, as far as giving us some kind of scale of the house? You know, front and back because that is on a slope. Like you say,you're taking a mean average. How high it's going to be in the front facing the water and naturally it's going to be higher in the back. Page 27 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Jim Thompson: It's going to be higher on the Eastern side which is away from the bluff. Member Dinizio: Are you close to giving us some kind of a. Could you give us some kind of a drawing as to how that's going to look. Mr. Jim Thompson: It's feasible that we could present some kind of sketches at the January hearing, if necessary. They would be. Member Dinizio: They don't have to be. I won't hold you to them. He might but I won't. All I want to do is know what I'm. I think I'm looking at less than 35 feet at the front. Chairman: One day with my conversation with Mr. Law was, corner of building to median height or mean height for January and I was talking. I wasn't actually talking the entire sketch. Member Dinizio: No, I don't think I need that. Chairman: And that was what was thrown out. Kevin Law Esq: That's the only reason that I found it slightly ambivalent that we have made an effort to try to present as rapidly as possible, a comprehensive plan. Chairman: Right. Kevin Law Esq: Use for the entire property. Chairman: Sure. Kevin Law Esq: And unfortunately, lessened us, to many hours to really of the individual structures. in the time available hasn't get into ,the definitive studies Chairman: Right. Kevin Law Esq: Outside of calculating volume probable envelope based on programs. So, we haven't progressed those individual studies much beyond the massing type studies that we've presented here tonight. Chairman: Right, ok. Shall we. Let's let Mr. Law continue. Kevin Law Esq: I'll begin to conclude and then Jim and I will be prepared for other questions. I know we're not here to discuss SEQRA tonight but I do want to mention some Environmental issues. I think the Model is an excellent Educational tool to inform tile public and to educate the public as to the fact that Mr. Bacon intends to be a careful Stewart of Robin's Island. And I think this plan demonstrates that; the Conservation Management principal's that he has adopted and Incorporated into the design of his plan, I think shows, the plan itself. And I think there is the key word, avoids Page 28 - Transcript of Hearings Reg~dar Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals impact to any significant Environmental Natural Resource. And, we worked with local Environmental groups and commissioned the various studies that we're alluded to and Incorporated them into the design and plan. I think again, with the Maps and Model it can show that, we really tried to develop an Environmental sense of the plan. And along those same lines of the environment, I just want to mention a couple of economic issues. I think the public benefit of the plan, you know, are similar or even maybe out way the private benefits of Mr. Bacon sees because there are many people not just in the Town but in the County that want to see the Island protected and preserved. This plan preserves and protects more than 90% of the Island as you can see. It's very limited area's. Area's that largely been disturbed where tile new structures are proposed. I also don't think it's a secret that Mr. Bacon has become. He wants to become part of the community here. Although, he's a Connecticut resident he will continue to remain a Connecticut resident. He is very interested in the Southold community here. He has began to take part in the community here. He's one of the largest employers in the Town of Southold and he's become one of the largest purchasers of local b~siness and services. And probably what's most important, not most important to some but very important to some, is the fact that while most of the property is being left undisturbed the entire property, the entire project stays on the Tax Rolls/ And I know that's a particular concern to the people in the New Suffolk District as well as the Town. And so, we truly think it's a win. That the plan itself is a win win. For Mr. Bacon, for the Town, for the local community. I think the strict application of the Code to the proposed plan produces any unnecessary hardships and some practical difficulties that we eluded here tonight. I don't think the hardship is self created. It is uilique just by definition of an Island. There a some unique features of the Island. The variances will not change the character of the locality. I believe the plan observes the spirit of the Town code, especially as a code encourages the protection of large amounts of open space. I truly believe that this plan does that. I think the public safety and public welfare are protected. There will be no additional demand on community services. As I said, Mr. Bacon designed the Island to be self sufficient and so while the property remains on the Tax Rolls, Mr. Bacon will not become a demand of community and public services. And I think that's a win for the Town and the community. There's no negative impact to the environment. In fact, most of the plan strengthens and protects the environment and has positive impact on the environment. And the overall plan, the plan has an overall positive effect on the economy. And just in conclusion, I think substantial justice would require approval of the variances we seek. And I thank you for your time and your attention and for your cooperation. I know people in government also, they confuse a lot of things. I want to say that with Linda Kowalski, she's been extremely helpful in guiding Page 29 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals us through tl~is process, because we know it's a unique piece of property and I want to thank her as well over the past month for bet guidance and getting us to this point. I know we still have a way to go. I want to thank you again for your time. Chairman: Before you leave, I just want to say two things to the audience. This is a preliminary hearing. There will be at least one more, maybe two hearings on this. They will be in succession. We are planning the next hearing on January 10. That may or may not be a wrap up bearing depending on the situation. Just briefly allude to us in the entire packet where the give backs are with Peconic Land and Trust and Nature Conservatory, and so on and so forth. When I say give backs I'm referring to give back to. Kevin Law Esq: I think, most of you know, Mr. Bacon is, has been and is working with the Nature Conservancy. It's not Peconic Land Trust but Peconic Land Trust is a member of this working group, this Mr. Bacon put together. He's working towards the long term protection of the Island and there have been ongoing talks and negotiation with the Nature Conservancy. It's a, it's no secret that a month or two ago Mr. Bacon and the Nature Conservancy announced their agreement on the fact that, they reached agreement on substantial provisions or substance to provisions of an conservation easement. Various Attorneys are still reviewing that and nego[iating the finer points of that. We would like to review it as a confidential agreement between a private individual and a non profit Corporation. I think that, it's been proceeding along parallel tracks along with this plan. I think the plan incorporated elements in goals of what Mr. Bacon has been negating with the Nature Conservancy and so the plan has been designed in tandem with that. There is in our minds, absolutely no linkage between the plan and the ongoing force with the Nature Conservatory. I think these are submissions that do not rely on the easement for its approval and I want to be clear on that. That there is no linkage between the two. So, I think the plan stands on some merit. But, that's a long way of saying that, those talks are ongoing. You know, substance and provision has been agreed to. That's about the status of those ongoing discussions with that. Chairman: Good, before you leave. Yes? Member Villa: The statement that was just made that there is no conuection. I don't personally. That's not my feeling. You're looking to get extra use here and you're saying, it's a unique piece of property. Granted it is, but it's no more unique than a farmer who owns 100 acres of ground in the Town as one lot and would come back and say. You know, you're considering this as one lot. He bas the right to subdivide the same as you do. Now, I don't have a problem giving variances if there are proper safeguards. But what I don't want to see is tls granting variances and those safeguards saddealy disappear. Cbairman: Rigbt. Page 30 - Transcript of Hearings Regu|ar Meeting ~ December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Member Villa: I've been around real estate a long time in my career, my other career, and I've seen things change. I mean, there is nothing to say Mr. Bacon, that God forbid, something could happen to him and he could walk away from his project tomorrow. Next day, sell it to someone else and we're left holding the bag. I think these things go hand in hand and I for one would not be considered in voting for what those agreements are of protecting the land. You alluded to saving 90% of the Island, great. I would love to see it. But, I want to see it and I want to see it in a concrete form. Chairman: Well, I think what Mr. Villa is alluded to and we haven't spoken, there has been no discourse between us on it basically. For us to grant these buildings and these variances which allows them to exist conceivable I mean, and the multiples. There are going to be restrictions. And they be in a form of parameters. They might be in a form of some sort of kind of contingency commitment or covenant. But something is going to exist all right? Only because of the nature of what Mr. Villa said. We have no idea. The man could dump the property tomorrow. Kevin Law, Esq: I want to suggest this to you, Mr. Chairman. I understand those concerns. I don't have all the information and terms. There are different teams working on that. But as I said, there are some confidential discussions on going. Chairman: Right. Kevin Law, Esq: And if it would ever be appropriate perhaps before the next meeting. I don't know if the board goes into Executive Session where we could talk about some of the confidential things that are going on. Perhaps we'll have more additional information on those issues before you at the next meeting. Chairman: personnel discuss. We really can only go into Executive Session discussing or outstanding law suits which we really don't want to Kevin Law, Esq: I'm just suggesting that. that I believe the plan submission do not approval. The plan stands on its own merits. I do want to reiterate rely on the easement Chairman: Sure. I'm just telling you the concerns that we have as individuals. We're trying to safeguard the community and, you know. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Covenants - such as an expansion. Chairman: Yeah. Secretary L. Kowalski: That means that you would have to come back if they ever expanded and then you might want a covenant, and some other covenants. Kevin Law Esq: I see. Page 3] - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Ok. Any other questions of the attorney? All right.. Town Environmental Cons. Charles Voorhis: Could I ask one question? Chairman: Surely. Mr. Charles Voorhis: We heard a little bit about the boathouse. I heard you say the door height is 14 feet and I was just curious what the additional elevation is according to the used part to the height 35 feet, in the boathouse. Mr. Jim Thompson: We've got a mezzanine proposed around the perimeter of the boathouse, in that center Bay for storage, sail lofts and supplies and what not. And being a boathouse it's also quite convenient and handy if we're actually doing maintenance on boats and what not. We'd be able to raise a mast or use that height for unloading, off-loading. Mr. Charles Voorhis: It wasn't really made clear in the testimony. They were talking about consolidation rather than spreading out. I think that's a very good point. I was just curious about the height and so. Mr. Jim Thompson: Allotted height also begins to be driven by the natnre of traditional architecture and the point that' you begin to deal with, tip and gable roofs and ten to twelve pitches and working in a coliective vocabulary that you wouldn't hear if you were working building a Ranch house. You're not going to get the same kind of height if your building a single style structure with a fourteen and twelve pitch. So a lot of that is ( ) as well as being able to make it architectural appropriate construction and then deal with the problematic volume as well. Unfortunately there is an intangible there because we're no warehousing the building residential for estate property structures. Mr. Charles Voorhis: I guess from my understanding. See the Model, the orientation of the gable is also such, visually it would be narrower when you're looking at it from North. Mr. Jim Thompson: Yes, the ridge runs north-south which when we build, minimizes the apparent bulk when you look at it from New Suffolk Beach, for example. Chairman: Good. Mr. Charles Voorhis: Just one other quick one. I know you have done a tremendous amount of study on the Island. This is somewhat related but really on the parameters -- I was just curious if you have a long term concept for the access facilities in New Suffolk. There's fencing there now and I was just curious. Is there any plan for, what will happen there in the long term. Or if this is even considered at this time. Page 32 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Jim Thompson: At this point it's titled parcels and in alt honestly that have not been able to undertake and ( not. Those are separate, has been something that we ) at this point. Chairman: OK. Just for the audience. The gentleman was asking the question is our consultant Mr. Charles Voorhis. I'd like to take approximately a three minute recess again at this point and then again we'll come back and wrap it up. If anyone would like to speak representing groups or individuals, that's fine. I just want to tell you what the parameters are, that we are going to wrap this up about 9:45, so that's where we are. So Ladies and Gentlemen I need a motion. Board Members took break for about three minutes and they will be reconvening at 9:30 p.m. Reconvened at this point. Chairman: Mr. Law, if I could address two issues that came up throughout the hearing. Mechanical building B1.2 at 20 feet, Ok. I don't think that was addressed in the Notice of Disapproval. So therefore we didn't advertise that. And the Caretaker's cottage. How high is that? Kevin Law Esq: The Caretaker's cottage is going to be 25 feet in height. Chairman: OK Secretary Kowalski: They both need height variances. Chairman: Why would a caretakers cottage need a variance? Secretary Linda Kowalski: It's an accessory structure, a Caretaker's cottage, right. 18 feet is the height limit. Chairman: All right. Kevin Law Esq: Construed as an accessory structure, yes. Chairman: Construed as an accessory, right. So, what we need you to do is get that added to the disapproval and we'll re-advertise for the January meeting, so that everything is taken care of and tied up nice and neatly. Kevin Law, Esq: It's the first one. Chairman: Mechanical B 1.2 Secretary: Mechanical building to the Mackay Cottage there. Kevin Law Esq: I think what they did was, I think - B 1.1 is on there. Page 33 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Sonthold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Right, but B 1.2. Kevin Law, Esq: They viewed both as one building and they are two separate buildings so I guess we would need an individual height variances for B 1.2. Chairman: So OK. All we're going to do is readvertise for January 10th, and we'll incorporate those two as long as you call the Building Department tomorrow, ok. Secretary: And they could also address the Mackay cottages. Kevin Law, Esq: And the Mackay cottage's need for variance; for the Mackay if we'll construe the Vacation home as the principal. Chairman: Right. Kevin Law Esq: And then for the principal, we're entitled to a permit that eventually as a right and only require a height variance. Chairman: Right. Kevin Law Esq: That's fine with us. Cbairtnan: And then the other issue is, the Sunghine Law and Executive Session and so on and so forth. If you would apprise our Attorney of certain issues that you have concerning this area, right, then she will then apprise us of it. That will alleviate the situation of having to deal with it. Kevin Law Esq: I wasn't trying to allude to any secrecy. Chairman: I know. Kevin Law, Esq: I - being the Attorney responsible for those confidential negotiations. Chairman: Right. Kevin Law Esq: I didn't want to speak too much on it. Chairman: Of course. Whatever people do in their own privacy is their own privacy. We don't have any objection to that. Kevin Law, Esq: Thank you. Chaimnan: So, if yon'Il just get a hold of Ms. Dowd then we'll discuss it with her, so on and so forth, ok. I think that's all I have at this point. Let's see what develops in the next fifteen minutes and then we'll wrap it up at that point. I wish everybody a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and be on our way. Page 34 - Transcript of Hearings Reg~ular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Kevin Law Esq: Again, I thank you for your time. Ci~airman: No problem. Is there anyone that would like to speak in favor of this application? Sir. Mr. Joseph McKay: Go evening. My name is Joe McKay. I'm president of the New Suffolk Civil Association. Chairman: Somehow Mr. McKay, I saw you at the last hearing (on another project). Mr. McKay: I'm here in a better mood. As I think everybody knows Robins Island along with the two lots on the Mainland side which is currently used as a staging area and location point for Robins Island are part of New Suffolk. The Civic Association frequently comes to criticize construction projects which we believe are contrary to objectives that the Civic Association has for our village. For exa~nple: The famous condominium projects in 1982 and the even more famous Marina Bay Club in 1987 and even most recently last month to criticize a little tiny project which was really, quite an offensive one. We have consulted with local architects. When I say local I mean really, people from New Suffolk. Environmental, recreation uses of the local waters and residents, and we feel strongly that in that Louis Bacon acquiring Robins Island and the plans that have been put forth so far, that the best possible use is b~ing made of it and that is a family vacation retreat. And that the planning thus far bas been environmental and esthetically very, very pleasing assuming, I say environmental pleasing, assuming that the easements that have been discussed recently are finalized and completed. We do simply from the Suffolk's point of view, anticipate that the same quality and thoughtfulness will go into the steady upgrading of the New Suffolk Waterfront. Thank you. Chairman: Thank you, Sir. Anybody else like to speak in favor. Anybody like to speak against, ok. Any wrap up of anything from the ladies and gentlemen on the board? Member Dinizio: Yeah, could I just ask a question of this map right here? There are numbers on the side, underneath there is a 10 and a 275500. What does that stand for? Mr. Jim Thompson: I'd like to answer. Those are New York State Plane Coordinates Geometry references which are standard names of tieing all property in the State of New York to a horizontal bridge. Member Dinizio: OK, it's not footage. Mr. Jim Thompson: No. Member Dinizio: In other words it's not 500 feet per square Page 35 - Transcript of Heavings Reg~llar Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Jim Thompson: The ( ) that is shown on the map is 500 feet on the side and is roughly 6.25 acres and each of those ( ). The entire State of New York has a map ( ). Member Dinizio: Thank you. Member Tortora: The only other question I had was on the setback on the vacation house. I received your note. Could you establish a marker on tile top of the bluff, so we have a permanent marker, to know where the top of the bluff is. Mr. Jim Thompson: just recently, the tends to move. I'd like to answer that question as well. We've top of the bluff is a difficult item because it Member Tortora: Yes i know. Mr. Jim Thompson: So constantly putting a marker on the top of this bluff is a sort of an oxymoron. We are just volunteering the fact that we are presently waiting for a study to be completed by a Coastal Geologist who discovered in the Natural Archives records of the shoreline of Robins Island, and the Associated kind of area back to 1828. By February they anticipate giving us an overlay study that will give us 150 year history of the movement on that shore. think we'll be able to demonstrate at that point, what are relative to build using a safe margin. This is part of the rea§on we've been a little redundant to agree to some arbitrary measure from a dynamic poiut and then take a position that we conform to, beyond any of the cnrrently mandated setbacks from top of bluff. As far as trying to put a marker where top of bluff is at this point, I think there is no realistic or practical way to do that. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Is there a flat area that you can use, that's landward on the top of the bluff. Mr. Jim Thompson: We can establish a benchmark that is a measured distance landward of the current edge. Secretary Linda Kowalski: That's probably what she means. To have something. Mr. Jim Thompson: That's a moving target. We really don't know what current stability there is and what rates recession plays at this point. Member Tortora: I understand your problem. The only thing is, when you say that you'll meet the parameters of the code, we don't have any way of knowing whether you're going to do this or not, unless there is a marker there. And particularly since, I think this is one of the last buildings that will be constructed. Would it be about three years from now? Page 36 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Jim Thompson: That's where we have it on a construction agenda. But you do have a method of certifying compliance and conformance th~"ough the normal inspections process and the enforcement of the ordinance and permits that are issued by the Town in the Building Department? Member Tortora: If we have a top of the bluff. That's the problem. Secretary Linda Kowalski: That's based on a survey that is certified and submitted to the Town. So, the survey would have to establish a marker before he could certify that too, right. Normally? Chairman: Well, there's always a possibility that you may get this thing faster than Feb1~uary also, that would then give us. Mr. Jim Thompson: We're more than happy to establish a mutual agreement point. I think that it's important for the record that people understand that there's a relativity issue here and it's not a fine line member thing, that back occurred or something. Chairman: Right. Mr. Jim Thompson: In a more stable situation in terms of -. Member Tortora: Why don't we think about it and discuss it a little more so that we have some more clearance then. Chairman: OK, hearing no further comments I'll make a motion closing the hearing. I'm sorry, recessing the hearing for the next regularly scheduled hearing which is, and I hope the board will go along with January 10th. And I offer that as a resolution. Member Dinizio: Seconded. Member Tortora: Do you want to make that one what is predicated. Secretary Linda Kowalski: I can't hear you, Lydia, I'm sorry. Member Tortora: Should we make that predicated on, when we get everything back from -. Chairman: Well, no. We'll just do it, what we have to do at that hearing and then we'll continue it if we don't have everything back. Secretary Kowalski: When you go down there, I'd like you to add the other Resolution. Chairman: Sure. And that would be if the disapproval is amended, tl~at we also readvertise. Chairman: Definitely readvertise. Secretary Kowalski: For the January 10 meeting. Page 37 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Yes. Secretary Linda Kowalski: Are you including that in the same Resolution? Or two separate ones? Jerry made the first motion to recess it. Member Dinizio: Wait, wait. We got a draft from Chic. We got a draft - are we going to submit that to them? Chairman: Yes. Member Dinizio: Are we doing that now? Chairman: No. We're not going to do that ne]w. The question is, before we vote on a Resolution we have certain concerns from our consultant and by separate letter we will inform you of those coucerns. Between this hiatus period and hopefully you'll have time to address those concerns in January. Secretary: Aren't we going to do the (proposed) December 9th resolution? Chairman: Yes. Secretary Kowalski: Regarding the three agencies. Chairman: Yes, we're going to do that separately, ok. Secretary Linda Kowalski: So three Resolutions. Chairman: I want to talk to Chic for one second before we do that. Secretary Linda Kowalski: OK Chairman: And, so right now I'm asking to recess the hearing until January 10th and thereby establish a meeting on January 10th. So I'll do that as a same Resolution. Member Tortora: Continuation of the Public Hearing. Chairman: Continuation of the Public Hearing and a full Agenda. Member Tortora: Seconded. OK, so you seconded it. All in favor say Aye Chairman: All: Aye. Chairman: OK, now you want a Resolution for what? Secretary Linda Kowalski: Well, as to the Lead Agency you were going to discuss that. Page 38 - Transcript of Hearings Regular Meeting - December 6, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Well, I want to talk to Mr. Voorhis. Secretary: We'll do that after you discuss that. Chairman: Right and what else. Member Tortora: We will advertise for the additional variances requested. Requirements on the two. Chairman: OK, I'll seconded it. Member Tortora: On the two structures. Chairman: All in favor? Aye. Members: All Ayes. Chairman: Great. That concludes the public hearing portion of the meeting. We will be here for deliberations and I do want to have one second of time with our consultants and then we'll go on to Lead Agency basis of this particular Agency for SEQRA, which is a State Environmental Quality Review Act. We thank everyone for their courtesy. This is a learning experience for the board and being the preliminary hearing, we have taxed, we have everything in the office if anyone feels that they want to avail themselves, they are welcome to stop by and read anything that's been submitted at this particular time. You should at least allow two or three hour block of time in doing something because it is rather voluminous and it's very interesting. We thank Mr. Thompson, Mr. Law and all the gentlemen that came in and brought all this great visual aid stuff for us here tonight. It helped us dramatically and it also helped the public understand it. Secretary: And they also helped the office with a lot of extra copies. Thank you. Chairman: That was really great. The Maps again Mr. Thompson, absolutely fantastic. Great job. We thank you. (Note: This hearing to continue and reconvene on January 10, 1996).. Rt~gular Meeting - I)ecember 6, 1995 Neuthohl Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Well, I want to talk to Mr. Voorhis. We'll do that after you discuss that. nan: Right and wlmt else. Member Toptora: We will advertise for the additional variances t,equ(~stt.~d. Requirements on tile two. ~n: OK, I'll seconded it. Mtmibt~r Toriora: On tile two strnetures. t;lmirmaa: All in favor? Aye. IVltmfl~ers: All Ayes. t:hait,mae: Great. That concludes the public hearing portion of the meeling. We will be here for deliberations and I do want to have one second of time with our consultants and then we'll go on to Lead Agency basis of this particular Agency for SEQRA, which is a State I~nyipoetnenlal Quality Review Act. We tlmnk everyone for their courtesy. This is a learning experience for the board and being the preliminary hearing, we lmve taxed, we have everything in the office if anyone feels that they want to avail themselves, they are welcome lo slop by and read anything that's been submitted at this particular time. You should at least allew two or three hour block of time in doieg semetbing because it is rather volmninous and it's very interesting. We thank Mr. Tho~npson, Mr. Law and all the gentlemen Ibat came in and brought all this great visual aid stnff for us here Imdgbl. It helped us dramatically and it also belped the public uedopstand it. S(mrt~lury: And they also helped the office with a lot of extra eel)irs. Tlmnk you. Clmipman: That was really great. The Maps again Mr. Thompson, absolutely fantastic. Great job. We thank you. (Note: Tiffs hearing to continue and reconvene on January 10, 1996). - RECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTi{OLD TOWN CLEBK Town Clejk, Tow2 of Soui}~old