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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-07/12/1995 HEARINGAPPEALS BOARD MEMBERS Gerard P. Goehringer, Chairman Serge Doyen, Jr. James Dinizio, Jr. Robert A. Villa Lydia A. Tortora BOARD OF APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Southold Town Hall 53095 Main Road EO. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax (516) 765-1823 Telephone (516) 765-1809 PUBLIC HEARINGS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD 2july 12, 1995 (7:30 P.M. Hearings Commenced) P R E S E N T: HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER Chairman SERGE 2[. DOYEN, Member ~IAMES DINIZIO, JR. Member ROBERT A. VILLA, Member LYDIA A. TORTORA, Member LINDA KOWALSKI, Clerk-Assistan't to Board Page i - Hearing Tranacripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:32 Diane~'Herold, Architect: Appl. No. 4316 Oscar & Beth Blevins:. This is a Variance based upon the May 11, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for tile permission to relocate dwelling and garage addition which will have insufficient front and aide yard aetbacks, Article 111A, Section 100-30A.3. Location of property: 640 Haywaters Drive (and Mason Drive), Cutchogue, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-104-5-23. Zone District: R-40 Chairman: A copy of a map which is certified to Diane Herold most recent date June 25, 1994 and revised March 13, ]995. I have a copy of a Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Would someone like to be heard? We're sorry we didn't pull the other podium out for you. Diane Herold: I was requested to bring the DEC an~ the map and a copy of it. This is for the beard because it shows existing conditions and proposed conditions and your board tony not be aware of them. I'm the architect and I'd just like to run through what we're proposing at the site for the board's benefit. We're proposing a deck on the west side of the house, which is on the wet lands side. We're expecting to change the screen porch into a kitchen. We're adding a two car garage on the east side of the property. We're enlarging the existing second floor and we're putting in a new foundation underneath the building. The building currently sits on concrete tiers and is not closed in below. We feel we have a definite hardship with this property. It's on the corner of Mason Drive and Haywaters Drive which means we have two front yard setbacks to contend with. Also, the permit issued by the Board Town Trustees Southold township dated October 27 1994, and also the permit issued by the New York State DEC on June 19, 1995. Both I haven't sent to the board and they probably read. Both require sixty foot setbacks from the wetland edge. I've marked that in red on the wetland map which I just gave to you. That means all construction has to be back behind that line. We'll lose approximately one third of the total area of the lot. This reduces our buildable area considerable. Also, the property rlarrows as you go !owards the east side so that construction becomes a little more difficult because of the required setbacks. We feel we've come up with a solution that should be agreeable to the board. Just replacing the building on a new foundation we do have the opportunity to move the building. We're suggesting that we make it parallel to Mason Drive, and therefore we can keep the existing non confirming s(,[backs. If you Page 2 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals look at the site plans that I provided you'll see that the building, the existing front yard is now 23.6. We're proposing 25 feet. The existing side yard setback is on the north side. The screened porch is 11 feet plus your minus for the property line and that will remain unchanged. The garage addition will be almost conforming or will be conforming iq the 15 foot side yard setback that is required. Chairman: Your not destroying anything here. Your simply just picking this house up and then place on a new foundation. Diane Herod: No, it's all disturbed area. As part of our conditions we are removing that one driveway that comes off of Mason. The DEC requested that in there permit. Also, we requested to change the sanitary system. They wrote a letter to the Board because there is some question who has jurisdiction on the sanitary system and I was hoping the Board could g~ive me some guidelines on that also. Chairman: You want an answer. Diane Herod: Sure. Chairman: We think the Building Department will have the jurisdiction. They are the ones that are going to require you. They will make the determination if they construe it to be more than a percentage, which would then require you to go to the Health Department. Diane Herod: The Board of Health is reluctant to act on this application. Chairman: Right. Secretary L. Kowalski: Also the trustees would have jurisdiction on this. Chairman: Yes, trustees also. Diane Herod: Could I go back to the trustees and ask them for something that would take to the Health Departme~t because it's better when a group decides, than when a individual decides. Thank you. Do you have any questions, or do you have auy questions on what they are proposing to do. Chairman: I don't have any specific questions at this time. We'll see what developes throughout the hearing. I have been down at the site, I did look at it. I am familiar with this are~. It's a very Page 3 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals beautiful area and we'll ask the board members if they have any questions. We'll start with Mr. Villa. Board Member Villa: My only question is, where's the well? Chairman: ~here is the well? Board Member Villa: This whole proposed sewer system is right in the middle of the lot basically, where are you going to put the water supply. Mr. Blevins: On the northeast corner. Chairman: Northeast. Board Member Villa: Up by Haywaters Drive Mr. Blevins: It's right at the corner of the house. Board Member Villa: Corner of tile house. Mr. Blevins: Can I show you the map. Chairman: Sure. Mr. Blevins: Let me show you how it sits now. Tile well is right here. Secretary L. Kowalski: Could you mark that on our copy please for the files I couldn't see. Thank you. Chairman: Is that a submersible one or is it shallow. 0 K Board Member Villa: That would probably become ~n have to go the Health Department. They probably require you to relocate. issue if you are going to Diane Herold: That is what happened, i spoke to Mr. Bridham at the Health Department. He said that all the wells and all sanitary systems in that area, we would have to go for a variance. It would take up to six months to get that variance and it would cost $330.00 and $450.00 for the different permits from that department. This is basically Mr. Reynolds whose head of the H,::alth Department is requesting the municipalities handle it themselves. They are requesting to change the sanitary system. Page 4 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: I should think you would want to relocate it anyway, because if you put the sanitary system wtler~, it's proposed, the likelihood of it flowing towards the well is pretty good. Diane Herod: The sanitary system location was selected because the trustees asked us to get as far away from the wet lands as possible and 'we were also trying not to get to close to the neighbors well. Our first concern was the neighbors. Board Member Villa: Yes, but tile direction of the ground water flow would be somewhat towards your own well, and you'd be pretty close to it. I should think you'd be concerned about that. Chairman: Jim. No, I have no questions. Mr. Blevins: Could I interject. Chairman: Surely. Mr. Blevins: Whatever the reasonable solution is we would like to have some input into it. We want to do whatever is best. Board Member Villa: I'm just looking out for your own health. Mr. Blevins: We'll I agree with you. It's pretty poor the way it exists. Chairman: Mr. Villa is a past engineer for tl~irty three years with the Suffolk County Department of Health Services. That's why we start with Mr. Villa. O K Mrs. Tortora. Board Member Tortora: The only question I have is [ noticed that last year DEC was concerned with about the proximity to the CDM line, and they had suggested that the house be moved back at least 5 feet, buffer zone from the construction activity. I wondered if the map that you presented to us reflects that or was that done. Diane HEROD: That was changed. After we worked it out they asked us to clear a certain area put wood chips and let natural vegetation come through. It should be on that permit, but to quote exactly what she made us do, that was in exchange for that requirement that was made orally in 1994. Things .changed during 1995. Board Member Tortora: I was just concerned that the maps we have reflect any of those changes. Diane Herold: The latest one I just handed in touight is the fiual DEC map. Page 5 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Proposed site. Secretary L. Kowalski: No the stamped site. Tkis one. Diane Herold: They gave us a variance for 64 feet off of this wetland '- Chairman: Serge, No thank you. O K So the question we have here gentlemen and ladies is where do we go with these nice people? Board Member Tortora: We will reserve decision. Chairman: We will reserve decision, but the question is where do we go from here with it? Are we going to go back to the Building · Department oll the cesspool issue and the trustees, then see if there is any particular movement that has to be made, or do you want to make it subject to that, or what do you want to do? Board Member Villa: Where is tile existing sanitary system? Diane Herod: It's shown on this. Board Member Villa: Oh I see. Diane Herod: It's on the front on the wetland side. Board Member Villa: It's on the wetland side. It's only one pool. Chairman: That's why they wanted it moved. Diane Herod: Yes, that's why they wanted it moved departments were very specific about that aspect of it. and both Chairman: But the point and question is Bob, if you have a lot that as deep as this one is, why couldn't you push it closer to Haywaters, to the corner. Board Member Villa: You could, but where are you going to put the well? Chairman: Leave the well where it is. Board Member Villa: You could, but the only problem is, your losing pitch all the time on your pipe pushing deeper into the ground. You have a relatively shallow system here. You only have a test hold to you. You only have about 8 feet of ground water. Chairman: They are putting a foundation in. Page 6 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: They are showing a five pool system which is a shallow systein. You might possibly get away with a three pool system with 8 feet but it doesn't save you any space. It siretches it out 8 feet between pools. It's more condensed with the five pool system. Diane Herod: '. Which is why I selected that. Board Member Villa: It's.just that the lot is so very narrow. That's why I guess you haven't pushed it closer to ttaywaters Drive, because it narrows down as it goes that way. Chairman: O K Bob So we'll make it subject to. Board Member Villa: Subject to what. Chairman: Subject to going back to the Trustees and to the Building Department for there recommendation. Board Member Villa: If she wants the system relocated, I would say it's going to come under the inspec[ion of the Health Department because any system that goes in is supposed to be ins'pected by the Health Department. Secretary L. Kowalski: Subject to Health Department as well. Of course, we all know that anyway. Board Member Villa: They might say, refer it to the town. But generally if the town is going to require it, which they basically are, because DEC is requiring it. Diane Herod: Well basically when I spoke to Mr. h~righam he felt the Health Department should not be involved. Board Member Villa: Should not be. Chairman: Because it's preexisting Bob. Diane Herod: It's preexisting and also because the town requires it. Board Member Villa: But generally they step aside when it's preexisting when that means they don't have to relocate the system. Chairman: I'm not fighting with you. Board Member Villa: When the new system is going in they generally want to look at it. Page 7 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: I'm not disagreeing with you on this, I'm jast saying. Board Member Villa: I'm surprised at that decision. Secretary L. Kowalski: Are you sure there not asking for a SEQRA declaration from the Trustees? Usually that's what they do. They ask tlie town to proceed with SEQUA first and then they proceed after the town makes a declaration on it. Diane Herod: No. I spoke to him right after Mr. Fisher said that he wanted the Health Department because I knew it was going to be a problem on this property. Board Member Villa: Where they aware a new system was going in? Diane Herod: Yes. Secretary L. Kowalski: What would you like to do because if the Board closes the hearing. Diane Herod: Well, as you can tell by the Planning Board, the Blevins have been waiting since last May to work on ibis project. I would like to expedite it if I could. What I would like to suggest is perhaps, all of this be cleared up for the certificate of occupancy, that they would be allowed to proceed ~vith at least the moving of the building. Chairman: Construction and foundation. Diane Herold: If you grant us the setbacks we would like to proceed with that aspect. The Blevins do live tbs.,re. It's just going to get into winter time and it's going to [nake it very difficult. Chairman: Right Board Member Villa: If the Department sticks to that. position, could you get a letter from them to that extent. Diane Herold: Certainly I could go back and see him, or I could work something out. If the board grants us some extra time. I know it's an expense and the difficulty but the Depai:,tmeut of Health services would probably would have to grin and bear it because they wouldn't make it on a buildable piece of property. Board Member Villa: They would go through the B,)ard of Review, but what I'm saying is, I'm surprised they wouldn't want to get involved in an inspection. Page 8 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Diane Herod: That's why they didn't want too because they knew. Board Member Villa: When they inspect the system, then you know you have a system that meets code specification. If you don't get it inspected you would have a pipe running uphill for all you know. Diane Herod:'- I think they felt that the Building D~partment would do the inspection. Chairman: 0 K Let me ask this question. Board Member Villa: None of the towns do that as far as I know. Chairman: My basic premise for the question was, that the granting of specific variances in this application should not necessarily effect, since they are relocating. So we can proceed with that. Board Member Villa: Subject to, O K I follow you. Secretary L. Kowalski: The footprint of the building would stay the same. Right. The footprint of the building would not be changed in any event. Right. Diane Herod: Well, we would like to put garage addition oil. Secretary L. Kowalski: But if you have to relocate the cesspool in a different spot, it's not going to effect the foo~.print that this Board has jurisdiction on. Right. Diane Herold: No. Secretary L. Kowalski: O K Chairman: O K Lets see if anyone else has anything ~o say. Anyone else in the audience that would like to speak in favor of this application? Anyone like to speak against this application? Any further questions from any Board Members. No. Not hearing any further questions is there anything else you would like to say. We didn't want you to sit down. Diane Herod: Thank you for your time. Chairman: No problem. Thank you. Not hearing any further questions we'll hereby make a motion closing the hearings and reserving decision until later. Board Member Villa: Second Page 9 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: All in favor say Aye. We will be hopefully working on this tonight. You are welcome to stay around or your welcome to give us a call. Thank you so much for coming in and have a lovely evening. 7:52 p.m. ~kppl. No. 4319 - Yoshimasa Osato. This is a Variance based upon the May 18, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for permission to construct an addition to dwelling which will have an insufficient front yard setback at 35 Sunset Way and 3250 Cedar Beach Road, Southold. Zone district: R 40. 30.6 setback request was confirmed with ZBA office by applicants, who will not be able to attend hearing on 7/12. Chairman: I have a copy of the Tsx Map which is by American Engineering Services. Tile most recent date is June 23, 1994. The nature of this application is a 10 by 14 foot addition to Sunset Way. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. It is my understanding that the applicants are not here. Is there anyone in the auditnce that wants to speak in favor of this application? Is ttlere anyontL that wants to speak against the application? Any questions from Board Members? Pardon me. Board Member Tortora: Do they plan to appear at a l~,ter time? Secretary L. Kowalski: No they don't. The bo~rd could ~nake judgement based on what's on tonight. But if you have questions they would be glad to answer them if you would let ~hem know what the questions are. Board Member Villa: Well, in there statemen~ here, they are saying basically they are asking for about 2 and a half foo!, but it's more than that. Secretary L. Kowaiski: It's 4 and a half foot va~'iance. It's 30 feet 6 inches. Chairman: It says on the building permit. Secretary L. Kowalski: On the what? Chairman: On the application actually. Our hotne which we purchased last year is very small, and we need to expand in order to have a more comfortable living space. Because tile b)t is located on a corner, it has two yards facing the streets. How the house is situated on the property, the expansion or the deck which could fit table and chairs can only be made to the north of Ct~dar Beach Road front, or West S~mset Way front. The deck facing Cedar Beach would Page 10 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals not be desirable because there is a fair amount of tr;affic on it, and therefore would not allow the sufficient privacy in contrast. There are very few people and vehicles that pass along Sunset Way. As you can see in the photos the perimeter of the closed deck, a large distance between it and the actual street line. So the are asking for a 4 and 'one haif foot variance, Anyone have a par'ticular problem with this? ,~s long as we place a restriction on this that it remain unroofed. Board Member Villa: It's not clear as to what they ~re going to do here, because are they going to cut a door? Chairman: Into tile house. Board Member Villa: Into the house. Chairman: I would tend to think yes. Board Member Villa: There's no mention of that. Secretary L. Kowaiski: They would have to, to get a,-cess. Board Member Villa: There's no access to it any other way. Secretary L. Kowaiski: They would. The door is not in the Boards jurisdiction, because it's not within that setback. Board Member Villa: I realize that but I'm just saying, I don't know what the house layout is. There are questions why they couldn't put it in the back, the side yard, wtlich would be on the south side of the house. Chairman: In the rear of the house. Well I assume ti~ey could put it in the rear of the house but they are choosing to put it ill the side yard. So, I don't know. Board Member Villa: But what's the rational. If this is accessible from the rear to the side, why couldn't we do it there? Secretary L. Kowalski: side. Which side are you talking about, on the Chairman: On the rear of the house. Board Member Tortora: He's talking about the rear. Secretary L. Kowalski: O K That's a side yard. Board Member Villa: There's no doors on it. Page 11 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: I think it's because of the layout of the house. I don't know. Did anyone get a change and go down and look at it? Board Member Villa: I looked at it, but I didn't go in the house. Board Member Dinizio: It looks to me like this is coming off the living room. Secretary L. Kowalski: Yes Board Member Dinizio: That follows, and I think there is probably a bedroom in the back. Secretary L. Kowalski: I think your right Charles, I think your right. Board Member Dinizio: It could be a dining room. Board Member Villa: front. Could be a bedroom on that side too, in the Board Member Dinizio: No, it didn't look to me like iT was thpugh. Secretary L. Kowaiski: It's off the living room. Board Member Dinizio: The house is small as it is. Board Member Villa: My first house had a dormer ~ud there was a bedroom in the front and a bedroom in the back and u~le on the side. Secretary L. Kowalski: Jerry, the living room when you were down there, it didn't look like a living room. Chairman: It didn't look like a living room. Board Member Dinizio: So that was just my impressions. Board Member Tortora: If they did that Bob, how far would they be from the property line. Board Member Villa: Same, same as the house. If you could put it in line with the house. Board Member Dinizio: Well, it would be the same di~tance from the property line. Chairman: But you have a rear yard setback at 36 f*..ct, so you need to cut into that too. Page 12 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Tortora: Bob, where are you talking about because I don't. Secretary L. Kowalski: On the west yard area Board Member Tortora: This is west over here, ~nd he's talking about putting'-it here. Yes. Chairman: It's cuts into the rear property line then. Board Member Villa: It's suppose to give you more privacy, there would be more privacy than there suppose to be in the back yard anyway. Secretary L. Kowalski: That's a side yard, a corner lot. Chairman: It's actually a side yard anyway . O K Board Member Charles: Well, we can give also ask them that question. Chairman: How would you like to do that? Secretary L. Kowalski: Did they mention There is a letter. Chairman: They really don't say. Secretary L. Kowalski: Let me see this letter. Board Member Dinizio: They said they wanted a little more room. it to th(~m but we could that in the letter Jerry. Board Member Tortora: They are not able to attend Linda. Secretary L. Kowalski: another commitment but They are in New York Cit?,, and they had Board Member Villa: I'd rather give them a back yawed variance than a side yard variance. Chairman: Does anyone have any objection to dealing with it on this basis or what do you want to do? Secretary L. Kowalski: I just want to mention. Page 13 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southotd Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: If they are looking for th(~ privacy and everything else it would almost be better to put it in back of the house. Secretary L. kowalski: I just want to mention, theft they filed on June 15 anc~ they have been waiting a month for the inspectien and for the hearii~g. If you want to recess it for another' month, if you feel it's necessary. Chairman: It's really a catch 22 situation, quite honestly. You are going to effect some things one way or another. Board Member Villa: It would be less noticeable in the back. Actually, if they put it off the kitchen they would pr,~bably get more use for it in the back. Chairman: But why didn't they choose to do that. Board Member Villa: I don't knew. They are not here to ask. Secretary L. Kowalski: I think we should have a meeting. Board Member Charles: It think we should have me*lings every two weeks. Secretary L. Kowalski: I do too. Chairman: So what do you want to do? Board Member Villa: I don't feel comfortable addressing this without knowing all the facts. Chairman: O K Secretary L. Kowalski: What is the question so I can pass it on? Board Member Villa: Why couldn't they relocate it in the back yard. They still need a variance, but it would give them more privacy if it was off the kitchen, which is probably in the back, and they would probably get more use. Secretary L. Kowalski: They have the bedroom there, I know that. They did tell me tha( there was a bedroom there~ Board Member Villa: Bedroom where, in the back. Secretary L. Kowalski: Where your talking about putting it. On the westerly side yard. It's a corner lot, so that's a :~ide yard. Board Member Villa: I realize that. Page 14 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: O K There is a bedroom there,. Board Member Charles: I would go along with Bob in that. Maybe we'd ask them for a layout of their house and floor plans. We could make the decision in two weeks if you want to make it. Maybe next week. Board Member Villa: As soon as we get the interior of layout. Chairman: You mean, have a special meeting just for that. Board Member Villa: Sure Board Member Charles: If it's necessary. Secretary L. Kowalski: It's a hearing not a special m~eting. Chairman: It's a hearing, well no. Secretary L. Kowalski: No, I'm sorry. Chairman: It's a hearing, your right. You guys ar~ forgetting one tking. O K I understand how important it is for this, but we are one secretary down, this is the summer O K. We are not having any special meeting for this, and our only one full time person is going away the week after next. So it's not going to happen till August 9. Secretary L. Kowalski: August 9th. But it's not only that, it's just these papers have been on file for a whole moltih and not one question was raised about those floor plans. Chairman: Quite honestly, I have to be honest with you gentlemen and ladies, I don't get involved in the floor plans of ~he house. Secretary L. Kowalski: Maybe we should have somebody review the files two weeks before the hearing, and see if there is anything else that's needed. Board Member Charles: My assumption was that they would be here we could ask those questions. Board Member Villa: That's right. Secretary L. Kowalski: Oh I know, but still if you need floor plans they may not have had the floor plan of the house with them. If you know two weeks ahead of time, we could bring them. Page 15 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Charles: I'm not asking them to prov~ that Linda, all I'm saying is tell me what that is. Secretary L. Kowalski: All right, No, Bob said he wanted floor plans. So let us know what we're doing. Board Membe~ Villa: In lieu of them being here, tha{'s the only way of doing it. Chairman: So then we'll recess until the next regular scheduled meeting and make that motion. All in favor. Aye 7:57 Appl. No. 4318 - Henry Ruthowski. This is a Variance based upon the Notice of Disapproval issued b5 the Building Inspector dated May 31, 1995 for the permission ~o construct an addition which will have insufficient rear yard setback and which places accessory garage in a side yard, Article lllA, Section 100-30A. 3 and Section 100-30A.4 (ref. 100-33). Location of Property: ]8275 Main Road, Mattituck, NY; County 'Fax Map Parcel No. 1000-115-2-11. Zone District: R-40. Chairman: [ have a copy of a sketch. Mr. & .~!rs. Rutkowski house has been there for many years. They ar~., planning this addition on the rear of the house, and it is a 10 by 12 one story addition to house a mud room according to Mrs Rutkowski. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indic~ting this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Rutk~wski is there something you would like to add to the hearing? Mr. Rutkowski: Well no. It's a simple addition. Chairman: It's one story, just as I said. Mr. Rutkowski: Yes. Chairman: It's a mud room, just as your wife has ~:<plained to us. Something you never has on the house. How old is th,~ house? Mrs. Rutkowski: Over 40 years. Chairman: Over 40 years, O K. Mr. Rutkowski: We're getting too old to climb ul) and down the stairs to the laundry room, so we'd like to put a laun~h'y room there. Chairman: O K Is there anybody in the audience th,1 would like to speak in favor of this, other titan the applicants? Anyone like to Page 16 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals speak against it? Seeing no hands, Members, Jim? No, 0 K, Lydia, Serge. like to make a motion? any questiom; of any Board Is there anyone who would Board Member Villa: applies. Secb~d. I'll make a motion that we approve it as it Chairman: All in favor Aye. 8:04 p.m. Appl. No. 4323 John Czartosieski & ~illiam F. Quirk Jr. Special Exception for an Accessory Bed and Br,akfast, for the renting of not more than three (3) rooms for lodging and serving of breakfast to not more than (6) casual and transient roomers, which request is to be clearly incidental and subordinate to the principal use (single-family dwelling) use. Location of ProperW: 51680 Main Road Southold, NY: County Tax Map Parcel No 1000-63-6-3. Zone District Residential-Office (RO). Chairman: We have a copy of the sketch of the property. Just approximately 99 by 330. The house of course ha:~, as the older houses are, centered closer to the main road then it i~ to the center of the lot. We have a copy of the Suffolk County Ta:~ Map indicating Zhis and surrounding properties in tile area. Mr. Czartosieski, How are you tonight, Sir? Mr. Czartosieski: Fine, thank you. Chairman: Is there something you want to add to the hearing or could we grill you about something? Mr. Czartosoeski: First I would like to extend a personal thank you to Linda, for getting the application on this months agenda. Thank you Linda. Secretary L. Kowalski: Oh your welcome. Mr. Czartosieski: I have been a life long resident ,,f Southold and I have a vested interest in not only preserving the ~ural and rustic beauty of the commu~ity, but also adding to the economic prosperity of the area. I think we all know and realize t!mt there is a definite need for rentable rooms, on our little corner of the world. What my partner and I have done systemically, is taken a old house, it's about 100 years old. To say the least, it was a challenge restoring it to it's original beauty. We have added a~nple parking around the barn, towards the back yard. One thiag that is not indicated on the use of the property or maybe the floc, r plan, I'm not sure where it would be, is the flood lights for the guests so they could find there way around to the entrance, tile rear entrance. The flood lights are located on the southeast corner of ~he house. As Page 17 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, ]995 Southold Town Board of Appeals there is also a light directly above the rear entrance of the house. Other than that, I just feel as though I'm fulfilling a need in the community as well as helping promote tourism. Chairman: Great. While your standing up there, d(~es anyone have any further q.uestions of this applicant? Bob? Board Member Villa: Yes I was there, I don't remember. Is there a doorway to your bedroom from upstairs, other than the stairs coming up from the kitchen area? Mr. Czartosieski: No. Board Member Villa: Because I did see a note her~, from Linde to you saying, this will require access from the remainder of the dwelling. Secretary L. Kowalski: You have an outside, iuside stairway. Right. Chairman: That never did have an access, did it? Mr. Czartosieski: It wasn't there. Chairman: That never did have access did it, from upstairs into that second area where the maids quarters orighlally was? Mr. Czartosieski: Yes, but years and years ago. Chairman: Years ago. O K Secretary L. Kowaiski: Years ago. Board Member Villa: That inside stairway is in use. Mr. Czartosieski: Yes. Board Member Villa: O K. That's the only way you c~:,n get into your room. Mr. Czartosieski: Yes. Chairman: O K Jim, No, I don't have any questions at all. Lydia, your excusing yourself, yes I am. I just have two 1,~tters which are in the record which I will mention. Secretary L. Kowaiski: Lydia, are you excusing yourself. You have to speak louder into the mike, so I call get you. Page 18 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Serge, the parking plan. parking plan? no questions. O K, let's just briefly go back to Have you decided how you are goil~g to set up the Mr. Czartoaieski: Yes, Bob had mentioned that people drive around the'.barn and park facing the house, next to each other. Then they cof~ld get into the house through the rear entrance. Chairman: O K You'll show that on some kind of a plan for us so we can make it a part of the permanent file. Mr. Czartosieski: Sure Chairman: O K Now the flood lights are shielded to the property that your referring too. They are not showing on other property. Mr. Czartosieski: They are shinning directly down towards the parking, which is ill the center of the property. Chairman: O K Mr. Czartosieski: There are bushes and trees surrounding the parking. Chairman: O K Great. I don't have any further ~}uestions of this applicant. I will say for the record, that it is one of the nicest tours of a house I have ever been too. Really. You did ail absolutely magnificent job. Is their anybody thal would like to offer a resolution to this? Board Member Villa: I'll move. Chairman: Seconded it by Mr. Villa. Secretary L. Kowaiski: He's approving it right? Board Member Villa: As applied. Secretary L. Kowaiski: You have to say that. Sorry. Mr. Czartosieski: Thank you. Chairman: All in favor say Aye. 8:10 p.m. Phillip Cardinale, Esq. and/or Catherine Mesiano Inc. ,as agent: App;. No. 4321 Frank Paiumbo, as Contract Vendee (Owner: County of Suffolk/Mary Murphy. This is a Variance based upon the June 15, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for permission to construct dv,'elling with an Page 19 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals insufficient front yard setback and within 100 fet~,t of the Long Island Sound bluff or bank. Also requested is a Variance under New York Town Law, Section 280-A for minimum improvements for access by fire vehicles over a private right-of-way or easement Area. Commencing at a point along the north side of Oregon Road, Cutchogue, 'along the westerly side of lands of Bokina, over lands now or formerly Baxter and others identified as Lo~ 1.9, Block 1, Section 72, thence extending northerly approximately 1035 feet to a point, thence running in an easterly direction appro:ilmately 375 feet to the applicant's parcel of land identified as Lot 3.3, Block 2, section 73, District 1000, all as shown by survey dated June 7, 1995 prepared for Frank & Louise Palumbo. Chairlnan: I should point out for the people in the public this property at one time was as commonly held both by' the applicant Mary Murphy and by Suffolk County. I believe it was seized at one time by Suffolk County for non payment of taxes. I have no idea if it has been returned at this point but it will be. There was a time on the application. I have a copy' of the survey produced by Roderick Van Tyle pc most recent date Aug~-~t, I'm sorry December 19, 1988 indicating, again produced by Roderick Van Tyle proposed dwelling footprint 60x60 approximately' 25 feet from right-of-way and approximately 45 feet from tile top (~[~ the bank. If I didn't give you a date I will, June 7, 1995. I have, a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the areas. Is there anyone that wants to heard? All right. Is there someone that wants to speak in favor of this application? Anyone that wants to speak against this application? We have a request to recess this for the next scheduled meeting. Does anyone have an objection to that? Ladies and Gentlemen of the Board. Board Member Villa: No Chairman: O K Board Member Villa: Is it possible to get a path or something cut through there, so we could get to the bluff? Chairman: I think the best thing to do is, it's not a patronizing statement. I'm reading again the soil and water evaluation. Board Member Villa: I did too, and I was there . No way was I going to tangle with that. Chairman: We have had significant hearings with Miss Johnson on the easterly side. My suggestion would be to call her and tell her you were coming up. If you get no answer, walk ,m the property and identify yourself. Page 20 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: She won't mind. She already mentioned it. chairman: She's very unbelievable, maybe you the 280A action. very nice. We have had sufficient, remember some of them, applications over Board Membex~' Villa: I was reading that soil thing too. Chairman: This applicant is going to have to subscribe to some of this, or they are going to have to substantially, they are going to clip the house anyway. But there is going to be a substantial adherence I would say, if they want my vote to that. Board Member Villa: Yes, definitely. Chairman: I have no idea what they are paying for tile property and at this point I don't really care. But it's going to cost them a phenomenal amount of money for erosion control on this piece of property. Board Member Villa: Yes. Froln the report we them a service approving this thing the way it is, no going to have a house very long. w(,uldn't be doing b,~c~use they are Chairman: That's right. Board Member: Neither will the neighbors, eventually. Chairman: O K Hearing no further comment, I make a motion recessing the hearing until the next regular scheduled meeting. All in favor Aye. 8:16 Appl. No. 4317 Edwin and Donald Tonyes.. This is a request for a Special Exception under Article IX, Section 100-9lB, for permission to convert existing building in this tIamlet-Business ( HB ) Zone District from single-family dwelling to multiple-dwelling, or alternatively two-family dwelling with retail store. The subject lot with existing house contains a total area of 10,615 sq. ft. and is identified as 1000-62-1-13 containing approximately 10,500 sq.ft, in area which is being offered in this project to increase the available land area. Both lots are located on the north side of the Main Road, Southo[d, and are in the HB Zone District. Chairman: We have a copy of a survey produced by Peconic surveyors dated July 11, 1985 indicating a piece of property which is approximately 60.50 feet, so I guess that's 16 and one half on Main State Road or Route 25 by a variable 183.91. It lapers down to 54.12 in the back. The separate lot we have is by T4x Map. I have Page 21 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indic~ting this and surrounding properties in the area. Would soaleone like to be heard concerning this: Mr. Tonyas, how are you tonighl Sir. Is there something else you would like to further state. You were gracious in showing us the place last Saturday. Mr. Tonyes:" Of course I'm supporting the special exception. I feel that the Board should allow tlxis special excel~tion because appealing the HB district code. The property docs apply to our special exception. Of course, there are a few things that imve to be done. Wherever we have to address any issue that comes before us, we would be happy too, immediately. But I also w~u~t to add. We purchased this property in 1987. We've had some good ideas with the property back then. But because we got hit with a r~cession, things didn't go the way we planned too. We have a mortgage that exceeds the value of the property. If we wanted to turn aro~ind and sell the property and pay off the mortgage, we would have to take out a loan to help finish paying off the mortgage. We find theft if we do not generate income from this piece of property, it's a real big problems. If you ask of proof of that right now, anything you want I can give it to you. Chairman: O K MR. Tonyes: I'd appreciate anything you could do witi~ that. Chairman: This is a private money mortgage that you have with the prior owner, or is it a bank mortgage. Mr. Tonyes: No, it's a bank mortgage. Chairman: What did the house look like in 1987 when you bought it? Mr. Tonyes: Well, it was run down quite a bit. Wc had to restore a boiler. It was the front. It was an overhang in ~he front of the house, which probably I could look back at, from an old picture. I guess, I don't even know when it was built. It probafl)ly was built in 1725. But this overhang ill the front was falling d(,wn and it was kind of dangerous, so we had to remove ttmt. We r~built the whole front of the house. We did the heating system. We added extra electrical lines. We took the old fuse panel out and added new circuit breakers. We did as much as we could. Anything that we did do, applied to the codes and anything ti~at we al~e going to do, that you ask us to do, we'll comply to the codes as well. We're constantly improving the property. In fact, over $100,000. dollars in improvements on that property. Chaimnan: Was this property ever used for busines:~ or was it non conferment. Page 22 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Tonyes: The only way you could prove that, we met an old lady 90 years old last summer. She tells us stories that there used to be a butcher there way back, a plumber there. Someone was living down there for awtiile. But there's no records (if this. Chairman: What did you find downstairs when you actually purchased th~ property? Was just an open room? Mr. Tonyes: The floor was rotting downstairs and had a smell of. The way they did the house back then, the would take a 4 by 4 wood and plant logs and lay a pine floor right over it. Maybe they redid this a hundred years ago, the only way to figure it ~ut. The smell, the toxic smell of the house that was so bad, you c~,,ldn't rent it to anybody even someone living on the second floor. First floor and second floor. Chairman: You mean, the smell of rotting wood. Mr. Tonyes: I had to dig the rotting wood up for a cement floor on the bottom. So this way, you wouldn't have this :',,~od on dirt. Chairman: O K Mr. Tonyes: Most of that work I did by myself, with no help. Chairman: Good. There were no extensions put on ~he house. The size of the house is existing as it exists. Mr. Tonyes: Exactly the sa~ne as it always was, as wc bought it. Chairman: As you bought it. Mr. Tonyes: I would have to say probably about 65 years ago there was a bathroom extension. I'm sure you see pictures up there. It's about 6 by 6, it's on the side. Well, they never [~ad a bathroom before. They used to have outhouses way back then so I think that's probably the newest part of the house. That little [)athroom section there. But, from records those records got burnt i~ a fire I guess, in late eighteen hundreds in Riverhead. It's exactly where the main part of the house was built. Dating back, say 1725, the newer section of the house which would be the back part of the house, that would be about 150 years old Chairman: Mr. Villa. Board Member Villa: My concern, I don't have a pr~,blem with what your proposing. My problem is granting something ~n}d not knowing Page 23 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals if you meet the codes. Ii1 other words, when you get into two family and residents or three family you fall into different housing codes, and different fire codes. I would like to be surt~, ahead of any decision that we have here, that that building meets codes or that you can make it meet the codes. I don't want to grant something and then have the Building Department come in and say, there is no way you can do it.. I would rather have that up front before we can make a decision. Mr. Tonyes: You have to also bear in mind, that ~t the time the house was built, people living there two hundred iifty years ago, that, I don't know what the codes were back then. I don't have a book of codes. But, if the Building Inspector says do this, put this here, put this here, we'll do that. We'll comply to any of the alterations. Board Member Villa: No. You've got a 7 foot ceiling upstairs with sloping ceilings, besides beyond that. Mr. Tonyes: You mean, the bedroom upstairs. Board Member Villa: That's right. I don't know ~vl~ether that is going to meet any kind of codes. I would not feel com['ortable making a decision whether this call meet codes. Chairman: What do you propose, Bob? Board Member Villa. I would like to have someone make an inspection from tt~e fire and multiple housing sections to see if this is going to meet codes, or are they going to need variances. Chairman: You're referring to someone in house or o/~ter house? Board Member Villa: Whichever. Secretary L. Kowalski: Well, in house doesn't do i~. I've already checked. That's because they don't know what the ~{pecification are for the houses that are there today. You may have lo come up with a building construction plan of tile house as it exist:;, to show what codes it met when it was built or what it is. Board Member Villa: It was built as a single family or it's only approved a single family. Right. Chairman: You understand what we're talking about he~'e. Mr. Tonyes. I understand exactly what you said. Chairman: No way do we want to make a decision without having. Page 24 - Hearing Tral-~scripts '~ ,o~ular Meeting of July 12, 1995 thold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Tonyes: Absolutely. Chairman: We're not tearing the place apart, we're, not criticizing it. We're not doing anything. That's what Bob Villa wants. O K So what we would suggest you do, get a hold of the loc:al engineer, let him have a look at it..and evaluate it on that basis. Board Member Tortora: Only one thing, the other thing here is, you're asking for either-or. Mr. Tonyes: I want you to understand something. Board Member Tortora: You're asking for either two family, or two family and a retail use, or multi family use. The bulking parking schedule is different for both. I don't know what I'm looking at right now. The bulking parking schedule is diff~rent for both. Also, your talking about 20,000 sq. ft. minimum for each use in this zone, so I'm sure what we'd be granting. It would depend on which ~es you are going to go with. Chairman: I think this could be addressed also from the engineering evaluation. Mr. Tonyes: But I did clearly mention that at this time, that something has to be done, because if I don't genex,~te income from this property, or if I cannot continue as I am now, g~,nerating income from this property, I won't have to bother coming he~'e anymore. My point was: The reason way I wellt from A to B, like your saying there, I would prefer two family with a store. I think I could generate the most income out of it that way. If the Board says O K, lets go three families. You want to incorporate that piece of property on the side and well, I'll go along with what~ver you want. Board Member Lydia: That's what we're trying to say to you. If it's going to be two families and a store, there is a whole set of different parking requirements, than they would be for three families, for multiple families. Mr. Tonyes: I understand. Board Member Tortora: I'm not sure what applicati.n ~s before us at this point. Chairman: Let's let the engineer look at it, and the engineer can refer to that situation. Then they can make a deterlnination what way they want to go with that. Page 25 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Tortora: And either one is going t,, require a site plan approval, and it's multiple family your in for ~ite plan waver or you have to get some kind of a decision. Chairman: .You want a outside PE. Board Member Tortora: And if it's retail, same thing. Chairman: Anything you suggest? Board Member Tortora: That's supposed to be the recommended number. Chairman: There are several engineers in town. I can say three. Secretary L. Kowalski: You're not supposed to recommend any. Mr. Tonyes: O K Secretary L Kowaiski: We're not permitted too, Mr. Tonyes: O K But if you could give me a list that we could recognize, we just don't want to get an en~neer, al~d someone say, who is this guy, we don't know him. Chairman: Whoever you decide to get, O K, just hay, him call me or Mr. Villa and we will have him review or her revie~x that particular area that we want addressed before the next hearing, and then we'll have everything and we'll be able to go from there. All right. Secretary L. Kowalski: Could I have tile nam(., of the other gentlemen who are with Mr. Tonyes today for the record please? I'm Ed. Tonyes Jr. Oh I know, Donald and Edward Sc. O K. Thank you. Chairman: Give him a page out of the yellow book, I guess in the town. Secretary L. Kowalski: She works for an atto~'ney, they can check this. Board Member Villa: A engineer can do the same thin{~. Chairman: Sure. Mr. Tonyes: I do have some architect, which I had some work that we had done in the past. Chairman: Right. Page 26 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: Now, you can't do this. You have to address this to the codes, specific codes that fall into being when you go like from like a two family to a three family. Mr. Tonyes:. Right Board Membe~ Villa: They require certain floor areus with minimum ceiling heights. You have fire codes that fall into place. You have all kinds of things that get involved here. I just don't want to be in a position here of saying to you, O K, we're going to grant it and then find out, that you can't meet anything, it wouldn't make sense. I'd like to know up front, that you can meet all the codes and then we can address what your proposing and t~ke it whichever way we think is best. Mr. Tonyes: O K Chairman: Sure, but if you have any questious on what we want the engineer to look at, have him call us. Mr. Tonyes: O K Chairman: All right, and myself and Mr. Villa or any of us will refer him to what we think we want. Secretary L. Kowalski: We'll mark mainly fire codes and zoning codes. Chairman: Right. Secretary L. Kowaiski: Is there anything else w~ could mention today? Board Member Villa: It's multiple residency codes, building codes. Board Member Tortora: Depending on what use. What kind of area variances you need. Secretary L. Kowalski: Building and fire codes are the same thing, same codes. Chairman: We just suggested that you use sotneone that's familiar with the Town of Southold codes. Mr. Tonyes: 0 K Chairman: All right. Preferably not someone from New York City. I'm being facetious of course. Page 27 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Soutllold Town Board of Appeals Mr.. Tonyes: Sure. Chairman: O K, when your 85 miles away, yo~ don't kind of understand some of this stuff that we deal with. Because some of the stuff out here is older, as in this case. This is an older house. I'll refer to' it as very old. It doesn't look very (,Id, but I mean it is very olc~: The main structure. O K Board Member Tortora: It's not a artifact. Secretary L. Kowalski: It should be someone licensed in Suffolk County. Chairman: We thank you though for your honesty and your courtesy in showing us the place. We really appreciate that and we'll see yon back on August 9. If you have any questions, pleast: give us a call. Thank you. Mr. Tonyes: O K Thank you. Chairman: 1~ there anyone else, just one second Joe, ~vant to speak in favor of the favor of the application? Anyone want to speak against ? Board Member Tortora: Well, what I wonder is, if you're holding this over, can I hold my comments? Chairman: Surely. Board Member Tortora: I'll speak at the nex~ meeting, I'd rather,I'm tired. Chairman: Good. I don't mean good, it's good that you will be able to come back. I have to watch what I say, sometim~,s. O K Hearing no further comment, I'll make a motion to recess the hearing until the next scheduled meetil~g. Board Member Villa: Second it. Chairman: All itt favor say Aye. Thank you again f,,r coming in. 8:34 P.M. Fairweather-Brown Arthitects: Appl. :~4322 William Gordon. Variance based upon the May 24, 1995 Notic~ of Disapproval of the Building Inspector where applicant is requestii~g permission to construct garage and deck additions which will have insufficient front yard setcacks. Ref: Article lllA, Secl ion 100-30A.3. Location of Property: 1030 Broadwaters l~oad, Cul~'hogue; County Tax Map District 1000, Section 104, Block 9, Lot 1. Page 28 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: I have a copy of a survey produced b.x John Mentzer, which is Peconic surveyors. It is dated May 4, 199[ indicating the nature of the present dwelling as it exists. Lets get to the site plan. I have a site plan produced by registered Ar~:hitect Robert I. Brown dated., June 20, 1995 indicating the nature of Lhis application, which is exi.%.ting attached garage to be removed, pr,~posed relocated garage attached and proposed wood deck, as ~nention~d, on the rear of the dwelling. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the ~cea. Is there somebody that wants to be heard? How are you tonight Sir? Mr. Robert Brown: Fine thank you. How are your? My name is Robert Brown arthitect for Mrs Gordon. Chairman: Do you want to explain what your proposing here? Mr. Robert Brown: First, I'd like to thank Mr. Villa for pointing out to the Board that artlxitects are qualified to help previous people. Chairman: You didn't give me your card, did you? Mr. Robert Brown: If I had one with me. Board Member Villa: Having dealt with both for man~. many years, I know that was stressed from very early on that Architects. Mr. Robert Brown: Architects are always very re~entful anyway. But that's another story. My client, in this case i~ought a house with a preexisting condition of a garage that, as y(~u can see from the survey, overlaps the property line to the west. The purpose behind the moviilg of tile garage which we need for ~ variance, the garage obviously doesn't already conform to the front yard setback. In order to move the garage, and to minimize the itnl:~,~ct of making it smaller as we move it, to get it entirely on t,, Mr. Gordon's property. But obviously we still have a front yard selback problem in this case. With regard to the deck, to the east, tht~ condition there is that the property line east boarders a road, which as far as we can tell, would and should never be actually be built ,:ts a road. But according to the Building Department, and correctly 5c,, that becomes another front yard. We've designed the deck to 15 f,,~t, which would be appropriate side yard setback for that zone. Hoping that the Board will allow us to treat that side of the proi,erty, the east side, as a side yard considering the state of the road. Chairman: Good. Mr. Robert Brown. That's basically it. Page 29 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Let's jump right into the questions her~ while we have you standing. Board Member Villa: The existing structure that's close to the road there that's a garage, what is that used for now? Mr. Robert t~rown: As a garage. Board Member Villa: Can you actually get cars into that? Mr. Robert Brown: One car. Board Member Villa: One car. Mr. Robert Brown: Yes. Board Member Villa: O K Mr. Robert Brown: That's what it will be designed /'or. It's larger than a one car garage, but it's no%, big enough for two cars. Board Member Villa: What's the size of tl~is structure that's going to be put there now? It shows at 24 feet existing and there's no dimension on the land that I have. Mr. Robert Brown: I'm afraid I didn't bring my ruler. Chairman: We can get Mr. Robert Brown: If Secretary L. Kowalski: Board Member Villa: garage, I couldn't see why can't we call this Mr. Robert Brown: living space projects garage square footage Board Member Villa: house that coming in. yon a scale ruler if you wonld [ike. you could. It's approximately 20 by 20. 20 by, I'm sorry I didn't get ~hat. My question is, why if they had a one car how he could use that old structure for two, one down. If in fact, what doesn't show on this, is the into the garage. So that what you see as is not entirely garage. So you're putting, your actually enlarging the Mr. Robert Brown: currently projects into the existing garage, you don't really have too. No. The house is the size that it is and it garage. If you go inside the Page 30 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: All right. But your showing o~, your plan with no dimension, your showing a little bit of a wing !here which I'm assuming is the part that your talking about, going into tile garage the existing garage now. Then your showing a b,~xed structure, which is the garage. How big is that going to be, 20 feet. Mr. Robert l~rown: We'll, the structure that was sh,Jwing 20 feet by 20, but in facI part of the existing living space already projects I believe, the 4 foot into the 20 foot of the proposed g,nrage. Board Member Villa: No, it goes 4 feet into the 24 feet that's existing on the wing of the house. If you look at th~ survey, when you look at the front of the garage it's 24 feet existing~ right now. Mr. Robert Brown: Right. Board Member Villa: Now your leaving 4 feet of th~l and then your adding another 20 feet. Mr. Robert Brown: Well O K. I understand what you,' saying. Board Member Villa: Rigilt. Mr. Robert Brown: We're hoping to do a little w~,~-k inside there perhaps extend the living space. Board Member Villa: So your still trying to extend inio that. Mr. Robert Brown: That's tentative. Board Member Villa: So your really not adding a ;]0 foot garage, your adding a 20 foot addition and part of it is going to be the house. Mr. Robert Brown: Potentially. But honestly, we haven't gotten to that phase of work. Board Member Villa: Because, if your trying to iml~rove something and we've only got, plus or minus 5 feet from the property line on that corner, nothing says that we can't cut from that 20 feet back say 16 or 14 and it's plenty for a garage. Chairman: In other words, the existing. Mr. Robert Brown: Theoretically, we could do that. To be honest with you, I might have some for what it's worth, es~.hetic concerns about the propositions of the garage that size with the liouse but it's certainly possible. Page 31 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: You only have an 8 foot door in the garage, so if you have 14 feet you still have some. Mr. Robert .Brown: Board Member Villa: at a nonconforming I'm talking about. Yes, I know what your saying, but I'm looking use here. Mr. Robert Brown: Understood. Chairman: Were you saying, that when you open thnt garage door, you have a dead wall in front of you which is actu~,[ly ail extension of the house into the garage as it stands now. Mr. Robert Brown: Not in front of you, but imm~diately to your right there's an entrance into the garage. Chairman: 0 K Great, I understand. Board Member Dinizio: I think it could be made t[~e size of the wing there and be done with it. As long as a cat. fits in there, what's the difference. Board Member Villa: We are here to grant minimal kind of relief if we can. So I don't object, if he's only getting one car in there now, thatts all he's looking for is really a one car gar~,ge. Chairman: He can only use it for one car. That's ail he can use it for now. Board Member Tortora: If that's what you intend to use it for in the future one car, or as an addition for the house. Mr. Robert Brown: two cars into it. to the house. Well, I don't think we would eve, be able to get So it would be one car and a pr~,iention addition Chairman: O K Serge, No questions. O K Whih, we have you standing there, we do not have a great deal of public left but we'll ask the questions anyone like to speak. Would their be anybody that would like to in favor of this application? Anyon,~ would like to speak against the application? Notice I didn't ask f:,r any i~ands in between, we just rolled right into the second poriion of it. All right. Seeing no further questions, no further comments, is there anything else the Board Members would like to dLscuss with this gentlemen? Page 32 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Robert Brown: May I just make a comment, about the garage. Chairman: Surely. Mr. Robert Brown: In looking at it, if we were to p~mh the existing garage, just gtraight forward, to get it off the neigi~bors property, the difference between where the corner would fall fr(~n the street is not very different from where we're proposing. I just: want to point that out. We weren't trying to take as much as we could. We were just trying to take a reasonable. Board Member Villa: Oh I grant you that, but we're also here to grant variance if minimal or minimize them if we can. Chairman: Yeah. Board Member Villa: Everybody tries to get as much as they can. But, I look at this. Mr. t{obert Brown: Could I propose~a compromise ?,'here we would maintain the line, the southern most line of the gal, age,.and move the garage over. Chairman: And what footage would that be? Mr. Robert Brown: On a scale that would be possible 18 feet. Board Member Dorizio: And you can live with l. hat. In other words, you won't be going any further towards Broadwaters. Mr. Robert Brown: No further towards Broad,s,lets titan the existing garage does, except it would be a little more (~asterly. Board Member Dinizio: What's that about, 2 feet, thr~ feet? Mr. Robert Brown: Yes Secretary L. Kowalski: Can you draw us a little sketch on there, so we can submit it to the file as an alternative? Chairman: You can draw it on our sketch. Secretary L. Kowalski: Can you draw it on our cupy. That would be great. Thank you. Chairman: Why don't you, if it takes you a little longer than you wanted, we can go into tile next hearing? Board Melnber Dinizio: Why can't you do this? Page 33 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Tortora: southern line. Mr. Robert Brown: sense. Chairman: b~bw that's 18 feet. Mr. Robert Brown: Yes. Follow the existing footprint on tile That's what I'm trying to do. Does that make Secretary L. Kowalski: Could you write those figures on there please, so we have them. I do require them for the fib:~. Board Member Dinizio: Well, I think that's part of th~ 16 feet. Chairman: The deck is not used, it that correct. It's an open deck. Mr. Robert Brown: It's an open deck. Board Member Tortora: Is it a screened porch? Secretary L. Kowalski: Is it 22 feet. Mr. Robert Brown: Northwest corner of the house, is probably a screened porch. Board Member Tortora: This is a screened porch here. If you proposed a deck here. Mr. Robert Brown: This is the back wall that notches out. Board Member Dinizio: he's entitled to that. Board Member Tortora: Mr. Robert Brown: Yes Board Member Dinizio. entitled to that. Board Member Villa: continue using it. Board Member Dinizio: There's no variance. He's enthled to that, Are you going to remove the ~tairs here? If he doesn't put it on If he doesn't put it on Right. Board Member Tortora: What's happening to the Your enclosing the screened porch. ground, he's gronnd, he']l ~-~reened porch? Page 34 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Robert Brown: Yeah enclosed. The screened porch is theoretically Chairman: It's enclosed already. Mr. Robert 'I~rown: What we're doing is providing ~.~ door from the porch to the lleck. Chairman: If somebody get natty out there they can go to the porch. Board Member Tortora: A screened porch is going to be enclosed. Chairman: While I have you here Sir, give me th~, setback. I'm showing 9 feet. Would you concur, about 8 and one half. Would you say? So we're going for 5 and a half to 8 and one half. Mr. Robert Brown: To be honest with you, I'd call it about 7 and one half. Board Member Tortora: would that be. What about the other corn(,, there? What Chair~nan: It's about 2 and one half. Board Member Tortora: No, the other corner. Oh I :~ee. Board Member Dinizio: There's no getting around it. it's going to be 22 feet. If you say Mr. Robert Brown: That actually would not change fr,m the existing. Board Member Dinizio: I don't know, I just think wily function when you have a foundation. Chairman: Thank you, see how convellieut that was. We got our ruler back. Mr. Robert Brown: Next time I'll bring my own. Chair~nan: Does anyone have any objectiou to tills i~ he holds that setback, it's exactly, it goes from 5 and one half Io seven and a half, we just measured. Board Member Dinizio: What did he do on there? Chairman: Holding the existing, going from 20 to 1;-,, [ assume that is, right. Page 35 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Dinizio: Board Member Villa: Yeah. Board Member Dirdzio: Right. What's entitled to this. He's not entitled to agree to that. 'But he is entitled to this. Board Member Villa: I don't agree to anything. Chairman: You don't agree to any of it. Board Member Villa: No, I'm saying that I entitled to anything. Your saying, he needs this anyway. wrong with that? He's this form overhear. I'll don't ~gree that he's Board Member Dinizio: No Chairman: It gives them an 18 foot garage. Board Member Villa: It's an 18 foot garage. Chairman: Yeah Is that correct? Mr. Robert Brown: Yeah Board Member Dhiizio: I'm not getting involved il, asking for it. If he doesn't ask for it, we can't tell him to take it o~[ of there. Board Member Villa: Someone could tell him to tak[· it out because it's over the line. Board Member Dinizio: He could cut this off over ~!~e line but he could still keep this. Board Member Villa: If he cuts it off over the lin~, then he can't use it because it can't get anything into it. Board Member Dinizio: He could put a building there. Chairman: Could I propose, that based upon the nt;w survey that for. Mr. Brown, that we allow him to hold the original setback which was approximately 7 and a half feet. And allow him to m(~ve this building onto his clients property and we grant the deck at 15 feet provided that it remain unroofed and not part of the actual living area of tile property. Does anybody have any true objection to that? Page 36 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: Was the original feet? Chairman: I believe it was. Yes Mr. Robert Brown: Board Member Villa: Chairman: Oh O K Board Member Dinizio: Secretary L. Kowalski: Chairman: 9.8 That's Mr. Brown. setback 7 and a half It's on the survey. Tile original survey here shows 9.8. We're the hell do you see that. 9.8 why I thought it was a little more than that Board Member Villa: Yes, but your moving it from the buildingout three foot over the line and you keep a couple of fcc! free, so yonr moving it 5 feet forward. Secretary L. Kowalski: It's wider. Board Member Villa: So your cutting . Mr. Robert Brown: I'm not following you. Board Member Villa: You were 3 feet over tbe line ~ith the existing garage, right, the same depth basically 20 feet and y,,ur keeping like 2 feet off the lille, the new one right. Mr. Robert Brown: I'm moving it to the other side. Chairman: At it's closest point it's 2 and one half fe~l. Board Member Villa: So your coming forward like 5 feet so your halving that existing distance from Broadwaters Road. Mr. Robert Brown: Right. I'm asking for 18 becau~';~ that's the line of the existing garage. Board Member Villa: I know, that's wily I was wr~,ng to go to 16 feet and let you have whatever that came out to be,. Because you were going from 9.8 which is basically l0 to 5. Y(m were halfing what you had. Mr. Robert Brown: Tile problem is, if I have to keep the 9.8 I really don't have tile deplh I would need for a reason, hie garage. Page 37 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowalski: Board Member Villa: Mr. Robert Brown: Board Membe~ Villa: 9.8. If he sticks going to 5. Mr. Robert Brown: Half. On that corner. On that corner, so do you see what I'm saying. I see what your saying but I. But the footprint isn't there. The footprint is to 9.8 I'll live with it. But he can't, he's I agree, but I'm asking now to go to 7 and one Chairman: He's now asking to go to 7 and one half. Board Member Dinizio: So grant him the 7 and one half. Mr. Brown: As a compromise. Chairman: That was my notion. Board Member Villa: 7 and one half. Mr. Brown: If it doesn't work out to 16. Board Member Villa: Your not going to cut 2 feet of[' of that al~d go from 5 to 7 and one half. Mr. Brown: May I show you the plan that I did. Chairman: If you need the ruler back, we'll give it ~,~ you. Mr. Robert Brown: What I'm proposing to do here is to maintain this existing southerly foundation and simply cut that back to 18 feet and bring the erosion. Board Member Villa: then, it's not. Mr. Robert Brown: Board Member Villa: Chairman: He's got to cut it back. Mr. Robert Brown: As far as to here. Chairman: It's 7 foot 6 inches and that's back But your not telling us what g(dng to be there This would be 7 and one half fee~. I would doubt that that's going !,,~ be tile case. what he'~ got to cut it Page 38 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: Your going to cut 2 feet off a~d your going to go from 5 to 7 and one half feet and two feet. Board Member Dinizio: Well just grant him the 7 {,nd a half feet and he'll have to deal with it. Board Membe~ ViLla: half feet. He might be sorry because if we say 7 and a Chairman: If he's sorry, he'll have to come back. Board Member Villa: He might end up with a 14 foot garage. Chairman: He'll have to pay one hundred and fifty dollars and come back, that's all. Mr. Robert Brown: Well. Secretary L. Kowalski: Just don't build it clos,r in case it's denied. Board Member Villa: It will be. You know what I'm .~ying, if your only moving two feet there's no way that your going lo pick up 2 and a half feet on that line. It's only 2 feet here and your going to pick up 2 and half feet that way. I don't see it happ~..ning. Mr. Robert Brown: Well, I mean, if I had to make Ihat 17 and one half to get some. Board Member Villa: You would have too. If your going to keep that at 7 and one half, your not going to end up with a 20 foot deck. Mr. Robert Brown: But we're making this an arbitra~y number, what I'm trying to accomplish is maintaining the existing so~ltherly wall. Board Member Villa: Yeah, but what I'm saying is, your keeping that southerly wall in the garage and your coming 2 ~nd a half feet here, which is what you're saying and you're comin¢ 20.3 feet here or 20 feet, what are you going to be here. We don'l know what it's going to be. I doubt very much if that's going to b(~ 7 and one hall feet. You're saying, you want to maintain that line and if we maintain that Line we might end up with 5 and one half feet. Mr. Robert Brown: No, I'm confident of these numbe,.4. Board Member Villa: I'd like to see. Page 39 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mr. Robert Brown: It might be 7 or 7 and one half, but what I'd like to do is move the garage forward 5 feet and maintain the southern property line, the southern wall. Board Member Villa: If you people want to pass it with 7 and one half feet off'the property line, I'll pass it. Chairman: I don't care because the gentlemen will ha.~-e to come back if they can't build it. Board Member Dinizio: Well he agreed to it. Chairman: Yeah Board Member Villa: That's what I'm saying . Board Member Dinizio: Don't come back, tear it down. Chairman: Just make the garage smaller that's all. Secretary L. Kowalski: Just don't go closer. Mr. Robert Brown: You're asking me to guarantee 7 and one lxalf feet that I just scaled off a blueprint. Really wh~,~ I'm trying to accomplish is maintaining that southerly wall, which e×i,~ts. Chairman: Right Mr. Robert Brown: To be able to use perhaps, part of the foundation. Board Member Villa: I'd like to see you draw it out ~,t~ a large scale and show us exactly what you've got. Secretary L. Kowalski: That would solve the problem I guess or questions that might be in anybody's mind. Chairman: Well, we can pass it at 7 and one half fee~ and then. Board Member Dinizio: Pass it at 7. Give him 6 inch~.s. Board Member Tortora: Yeah, but if it doesn't wo~k then he has to come back and pay another fee. Board Member Dinizio: No he doesn't. Chairman: As long as he can get a car in there wqth the addition that's off the house, they don't care. Board Member Dinizio: That's what I'm saying. Page 40 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: Well it depends if it's going to [~e a Honda or a Mercury. Board Member Dinizio: Well my assumption is, that Mr. Brown can make that decision. Chairman: ~inybody that lives out here, isn't going Lo get a car in that garage anyway. It's only going to be used for stol.age. Mr. Robert Brown: Right, most likely. Board Member Villa: Well. Secretary L. Kowalski: What would you like to do? Mr. Robert Brown: I'm not sure what my choices are. Secretary L. Kowalski: Well the board can recess it and wait for you to submit a plan. Board Member Dinizio:: We could;do it nexL mouth. Secretary L. Kowalski: We could give a confirmati(~n to the exact setbacks that you are requesting as a alternative o~· tile board can make a decision based on your request for 7 and ~, half feet and assure tile board that you won't have to come back. Mr. Robert Brown: I don't understand this, have to ,:nme back. Secretary L. Kowalski: Well, that you won't ask for a further reduction. Mr. Robert Brown: I don't mind you asking, as loi~g as you don't mind me saying no after. Secretary L. Kowalski: That's what we mean. Chairman: Why should you pay the money if you're g.,ing to say no. Mr. Robert Brown: Well, hay listen. In the inter~,;t of my clients time, as much as anything. Chairman: You want to get tt~is done. Mr. Robert Brown: I really in their interest want to ~et it done. Secretary L. Kowalski: Twenty Minutes. Mr. Robert Brown: If I had a sense that the boa~'d would pass 7 and one half feet, I'd take it Page 41 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Al~peats Chairman: Good Mr. Robert Brown: Chairman: Good. Board Member: Take it and run. That was my motion Gentlemen and I,adies I will second it. Board Member Villa: The garage is only 18 feet deep. Mr. Robert Brown: I'm fully anticipating the garage }8 feet deep. Secretary L. Kowalski: That's a setback that we're. Mr. Robert Brown: Oh you mean. Board Member Villa: I'm saying deep. That's the distance that's critical in this thing, it's that one. Mr. Robert Brown. Well, if that's the case in the interest of proceeding, that will be my responsibility. For s~_~m~thing of this magnitude, I can't imagine speak justifiably to my client while we have to recess it, aitd do additional work and we're talking about a matter of inches. Board Member Villa: I'm saying that. Mr. Robert Brown: I would take it and run, qnite h,,~estly. That's what I have to do. Chairman: That was my motion. Secretary L. Kowalski: We have a motion and a second. Board Member Villa: What's the motion? Chairman: The motion is uot to encroach any ,~loser than the existing garage, 7 foot 6 inches. O K, closes 2 and on half feet to the closes property Hne, which is on the, this says ~i~at Board Member Tortora: 2 and a half feet, what did h,. say. Board Member Villa: So what you're really doing is reducing the existing setback from 9.8 to 7.5. Chairman: That is correct. 7.6 Seven feet 6 inches. Mr. Robert Brown 7 and one half feet. Page 42 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: You are going to have 2 and our half feet off the westerly property. Chairman: That is correct. Board Member Tortora: No wider than 18 feet. Chairman: I don't care how wide it is. Secretary L. Kowalski: We don't go with the dime~,iuns because he may have to revive the dimensions to meet the setback. Mr. Robert Brown: We're just not going to be able to go any further Secretary L. Kowalski: That's right. Chairman: That the deck remain unroofed and not I~,rt of the actual living area of the house. Mr. Robert Brown: So you call figure that out with lira directions. Secretary L. Kowalski: Yeah Chairman: So again, Aye. Secretary L. Kowalski: Bob did you vote? We have four in favor. Beard Member Villa: I'm reluctant, but I'll vote for it but I still think he's going to have problems. Chairman: O K So we got motion passed. Board Member Villa: The next time would you put all dimensions on it. Like on your deck, your missing dimensions, your missing dimentions on the garage. Mr. Robert Brown: I was only interested in getting what I thought was necessary. 8:59 p.m. Rudolph H. Bruer, Esq: Appl. No. 4'.~20 (Proposal A & B, or Proposal C & D.) East Wind Developmen~ Corp. as the current owner of property located on King Street be!ween Third and Second Streets, New Suffolk, NY, identified au 1000-117-8-6, requesting approval of one of the following two propose,Is: Proposal 1: Page 43 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals A. Special Exception, Article lllA, Se(:[ion 100-30A.2, for permission to establish Accessory Apartment us~, in conjunctiou with principal single family use as provided by Arti~.l,z 111, Section 100-31B(13). B.' Variance under Article 111, Section 1110-31B(13-e) for permission ~o utilize existing floor area for [he <accessory Apartment at a ratio of approximately 50-50% (instead of 40/60%) as liveable floor area. Or, Proposal 11, as follows: C. Special Exception, Article 111, Section, 100-3lB-1 for approval of a two family dwelling and related accessory uses in an existing "former supermarket" building. D. Variance under Article 1X, Section size Schedule) for approval of lot area as exists for two-family use in this HB Zone District. 1()o-92 (Bulk Lot 21,430 sq. ft. Chair~nan: I have a copy of a survey for King St~.cet and Second Street il~dicating the former John's Supermarket, whi~h is tile owner of this property, which is not the owner of the pi(~l}erty but East Wind Development. One story, former supermarket a,~d second story apartment, which is rather an extensive building. I have a copy, plus a concrete garage. I have a copy of tire Sufl',,lk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Breur, we're ready. We were hoping thai you didn't fall asleep back there and we can see that your awake and read5 to go. I don't mean you in question, [ mean just everybody just listening to the verbiage of the footage in the prior appeal. Mr. Rudolph H. Bruer: Ou behalf of the applicant. We are here on behalf of the property in question is in contract !'or sale. The purchases are Mr. & Mrs. Worthmilier & Mr. & Mrs. Goldstein. Mr. & Mrs. Worthmiller are here. I believe you met them, all those of you that went to the property on Saturd~y met them. Obviously, you have seen the property and realize the problem of what we have. We have a building that was built I I)etieve, prior to zoning as a supermarket. We have tile most recent certificate of occupancy with respect to this property goes back ~,~ 1987 at which time was zoned business and the C O at that time, ~ think your file has a copy of that. Secretary L. Kowalski: Yes, we do. Mr. Rudolph H. Bruer: Business, buildings, re:-~ldents concrete floor and so forth. What we're here for, I beli~'e my clieuts, probably, I know my clients wottld like the tw~; family option. Primarily because it solves the problem now, period. If you go for the accessory apartment, that's something whictl ~'equires annual Page 44 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals review. It really was designed for a situation where the property would be owned by primary owner and renting it ~,ut to a tenant. That's why they had the sixty forty requirements. That's why they had a requirement or have a requirement that the owner, upon the death of the owner I think there is a years period which you must get it rene/ced or lose your two family or acce~sory apartment status. I think it would be more settled if we had the two family. The hardship obviously is, that this property probab;y, we are in a R 40 zone. It's a one family dwelling situation. Th(, property, the building is really, can't be used for a one family dwelling. I mean, there is a residence which is used upstairs, but the downstairs area is really not designed for anything really than a super~narket or retail use. I think what we have come here with L~; a proposal to satisfy, hopefully for good the use of this property in this area. If you notice the Tax Map you'll see that the siz- of the other properties in the area is much less than this, this is quite a large piece for the area. We obviously need a variance b~:cause the code requires I believe 80,000 square feet for a two family. We have adequate square footage for the building itself I beiieve. Like for instance, the ground floor not covering is like 650,.~ square feet [ would think according to my calculations. The apa~'~l~ents that are proposed there are oversized. The property bas pl,u,ty of parking, it being a former supermarket. Again, I think it ~'ould be proper and really tile community would appreciate it being z, residential use rather than the commercial use which the building was designed for. Chairman: What is the zoning code. Secretary L. Kowalski: R 40 Chairman: It's not the business area. Secretary L. Kowalski: No. lllRudolph H. Bruer: I think the loss of the non conformance use of the business because I don't think, I'm not sure, I can't commit the owner on this, I don't think it was used as a buainess for the last couple of years. Chairman: A long time actually. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: I know, but the next applicati,u, if you deny this application tile next application, I'm sure comiug before you will be for some type of either change of zone back ~o business or some type of retail use because that's what there buihiing for. Chairman: Restaurant. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Restaurant or something like ll~ut which would be more parking, more congestion. My clients are g',~ing to nse this Page 45 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals as a residence. They are going to use joining the do.,¥nstairs area as a studio. They don't intend to use this as a exhibition hall. They are not there to bring in the public to see whatever, work they do, that will be taken care of in another place. What ~hey have to do would be to finish up the construction or do the con~;i.~.uction for the second apar~l~aent. They will of course have to mee~ all the building codes and th~ requirements of that and this approval of course would be meeting all the requirements of the code. They did have, in purchasing this, they went to the process of having a quote on quote Engineers inspection of the property, which pointed ~ut to them the various things any person would do in buying a hous~~ with a typical house inspection. They believe that this is a doable, workable situation wl~ich they are willing to spend their monc'y and buy this property. Chairman: Did the engineer's report Rudy, show any default or deformities to the building structure as it stands? Mr. Rudolph Bruer: [ didn't read it. I didn't re'.dly realize that this question was coming up. [ noticed that at a pri(,r hearing here, that it might be asked here, which is why I'm sayt~g we going to conform to the code. Remember, this is a commercit~l 'building wkich has a residence on it. [f anything has, I think the codes are stricter there. We have a residence on top of a busit~ess in terms of fire codes and so and so forth. They will of coarse, they are going to be living there and they have told me tonight th(~y are going to meet all the code requirements. They will upgrade lhe electric and do that which is necessary to conform, and they will do that. As I said they are under contract to purchase this. Tht~ contractors, I can leave this here if you want. It's a contract that was dated April 3 rd. It requires them te get whatever approvals. They got 90 days to get it with a 30 day extension. Chairman: What's the purchase price? Mr. Rudolph Bruer: The purchase price is $169,000.o~). Chairman: Thank you. 0 K Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Mr ~ Mrs. Worthmiller are h~:~.e and we will al~swer any questions you have. We respectfully r,-,~luest that you please grant this varia~ce. Chairman: Well Board Member Villa: Well my concern is, you he~'d the previons one, that grant it, it's nice to hear that they are ,.'~'illing to do all this but I'm just wondering, if again, [ don't l~ke to be in a Page 46 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals position of granting something and find out you cannot meet the codes. I would like to see something along those line.~ tllat can be. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Well, I think they have to because to do anything here, they have to go to the Building Depa,-tment, and the Building Department needs to do the additional work for that apartment, rtk's not like we're taking existing codes. We have to add on and do the construction and they will not give us a building permit unless we're going to meet the codes. I'd like to point out, at least we're being caught short in a way. I m~m, in all your applications of all the people that have come her~, for accessory apartments which are in the nature of this. When was the last time if ever, that you asked to show up with plans showing that you meet a two family dwelling, I mean. It's not in your instructions. Board Member Villa: This is beyond and above that because you still have a very large old building which you are going ~,, use as another area down stairs and what have you. So you got more than just a two family house. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: I'd like to poiut out that if ~'.(; left it alone, we are entitled at least, to live where we are and u'se what we're doing as a studio. So there is no change other th,~ that upstairs apartment turning into another residence and allowin~ this purchase to happen. Otherwise, we're going to back to a retail store probably next year. Board Member Villa: I don't have any probltms what your proposing, I'd just like to know that it can mee~ all the codes that's all, and yonr saying the building department. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: My clients are going to live there and they are going to make sure that it meets all the codes. Board Member Villa: You see, I don't like to be passing on somett)Jng and putting the building department on th~. spot of having to approve something, or turning it down and saying, you know, and have you between two positions or two departments of the Town. It doesn't make sense. We should have it clear, up fron!. Chairman: Let me just ask you this question. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: I disagree with you, Chairman: Let's assume that he as agent for these , [lents, we held this in abeyance for a short period of time. O K. tie as the agent and the attorney for, made the application to the building department for all of the changes that ttiey want to do to this bldhting. O K. You make the application over there. Building ln~;i~ector will come Page 47 - Hearing Trsnscripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Beard of Appeals out and look at the building, possibly upon the r,~iuest of filling that application with the Building Department which you have not done yet because you don't have anything to go by yet. Is that correct. Mr. RurolptI .Bruer: Correct. Chairman: Right. He will then tell them what he is going to request. O K All right. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: If he says O K then I have no p~"oblem. Chairman: O K Board Member Dinizio: No, I disagree with that wh~le heartily. In all honestly, why don't we do it like we do every o~her one. Which is, we're not granting the building and we're not ~,aying it's safe for them to live there, we're not saying they have enough ingress ingress. We're not saying their windows are large end,ugh. All we're saying, really saying is that, we ,see a.building tha~ has very little use. Certainly, the use that it could be used for is objectionable to the town to change the zone on it. We're just sayi~g to them that they have what appears to be two apartments. You have two separate couples that want to own it equally. A1 ~ve're saying is yes. Go ahead and own it equally, and use it as ~wo apartments. It's not going to be a supermarket anymore. I reall~ don't care what you want to do downstairs. If you want to put your paintings downs there fine. It's a basement as far as I'm concerned. But don't make them go to the Building Department and pretend thai they have what we have and have the Building Department pretend o~~ have to commit themselves to what they think they might require, be~:ause they could be going to a building process, they could go sturt ripping out walls, find other things wrong, and the Building Dep~rtment is going to require them to meet certain codes. Those coders are written. There is nothing new about that. We're just basically granting use here. In my mind lesser use then, and certainly a more conductive use to the surrounding area. To put them through that. Chairman: It's a conforming use. It's residential, re~.idential. Board Member Diuizio: Rigi~t. But it's two apartment and what could be if they tore it down, probably four houses. Chairtnan: So what you're saying is, that you're not ,equiring any. Chair Member Dinizio: I cannot vote for something ~hat's going to tell these applicants to go to the Building Department ~md pretend. Page 48 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: Well the only other thing i,~ to go to an Architect or an Engineer. Board Member Dinizio: No. That's not necessary. They said they would be responsible. My assumption is that Mr. i{ruer and Mr & Mrs. Worthtlliller will be responsible. Certainly, lets expect the Building Department to do their job. Now, you know how I fell about that Bob. I've stated it publicly but I don't think we're in a position to ask them to pretend in any way to come up with any guarantee in any way meet the codes or the Building Department will guarantee to meet the codes. They have too. Mr. Rudolph Breur: We're going to have to c~,,.e up with a certificate of occupancy from the Building Department which we assume is going to do it's job and make us meet tin' requirements. As I said, we want to meet the requirements because we are going to be living there. We being my clients. Board Member Dinizio: We want you to meet, we're going to require you.to meet tile req~drements because the Bui',rting Inspector, that's his job. Now again, Bob, do you understand? I've stated my, I'm perfectly clear on how I thillk the Building 'Department but again, that's how it's suppose to work. I don't wat~t to deviate it from that one bit. Chairman: O K While your standing there, their n,.~ one else there except for Serge's dear wife, so I'm sure there is no one else in the audience that would like to speak in favor of it t~.xcept for your clients, if they would like to say something they ar~~ very welcomed to. Is there anything else you would like to say in d,~fense. Mr. Worthmiller: Actually, everything is said. Chairman: Right. There is no one in the audience ttiat is going to speak against the application then we'll go back the q~landary that we were dealing with. All I'm trying to do Gentlemen and Ladies is solidify the situation so we can put it to bed toni{{ht. So James, Serge. Do you have a question? Mr. Worthmiller: I don't understand. Why can't ~ve with respect to do other variance, subject to their meeting all tl~~ reqnirements. If they don't, they don't have the variance. What's; so difficult? ~ mean, that's it. Chairman: o K Mr. Worthmiller: If they don't meet them, then there variance doesn't apply. Page 49 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Are you making, excuse me. Can I just question you. Board Member Dinizio: I'd like to know if you have any idea if you have any restrictions. My personal feeling is, we're getting something better than we could ever possibly hope for in my mind. Chairman: Well."My oniy restriction is being limit~M to those two living areas. I mean, we have a 6500 square foot building there. I mean, we're actually sold. We meet the people and they are very nice. It does not stop them from selling the prop~rty to someone else, so that the restriction would only be for thos(~ two residential units. Secretary L. Kowalski: The project being two family. Board Member Dinizio: Two family Mr. Worthmiller: I understand what you're saying but I don't see why we have to make the extra coming back to, cu~r delaying our decision. ~ Board Member Villa: Do you know what happens. To 'a smaller degree what happens in situations like this. We heard it earlier where a gentlemen made basically, a bad business decision in 1987 and now he's looking to try to bail out by getting multiple use out of the property. Now, these people are coming in, and they are getting into a sitnation, I'd like to have things cut ~nd dry, ahead of time , knowing what they are doing is, can merci all the codes before time, rather have so~neone buy something and then find out they have a problem they can't meet a code. Then they are back where looking for another variance or another deviation. I'm saying, it's better to have things straight and clear b,.:~ore time. Mr. Worthmiller: That sounds good, but the point, is, we're not there keeper and we're charged with whether they ha~:e to come back or not. They come back here and they ask for something, if it there for you to grant it, we grant it and if they have [ough luck and can't meet it, that's their proble~n ~lot ours. Board Member Villa: That is our business. What I'm saying we are also responsible for Town codes. Secretary L. Kowalski: You can make it subject lo, but I don't think. Mr. Worthmiller: any other thing it. You can make it subject to the ?own codes and that applies. If they don't meet it ~hey don't meet Page 50 - Hearing Trauscripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Let's take the worst case cinereat. O K There's disagreement between the two groups of owners. All right. On the common area. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Right. Chairman: They put a party wall up, downstairs. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Right. Chairman: Equally dividing the square footage and one uses one side and one uses the other side. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: What's the problem. Chairman: There's no problem~ I think that ii' you had an intermingling or conjunction of some other the f~ctors involves here. I think that I could see that point. We w~.,-e looking at a basically a square building, a rectangular building, ().K. But we're looking at a building that's completely open, O K. So I think that the options are desirable at tills point and I'm not ~,king this away from you Bob. Board Member Villa: You're talking about two resid~nce upstairs or in a framed structure and I don't know what codes fall into play here. Board Member Dinizio: But that's just it. Mr. Rudolph Breur: We are redefining tile function of the board, if you go along with Mr. Villa's suggestion. Board Member Dinizio: We'll I don't intend too. I Ihink we should just vote on this thing and let the town, let the pe,~p[e do what they have to do, let them do it. Again I'll say it again Bob, you know how I feel about the people that are responsible for the next step, but again we have to rely on them, I don't think w..~ should become the judge and the enforcer. Mr. Robert Villa: I'm not saying we should be the enforcer, but we should know that all our T's are crossed and the I's ~re dotted. Board Member Dinizio: They are. Mr. l{obert Villa: Supposed they come back and say, you have a two house, and you can't have two families Riving up ov(.r the structure because it's a fire hazard. Then what are you going ~(~ do? Mr. Rudolph Bruer: 'then we obviously can't do it. We're wasting our time here. Page 5] - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Dinizio: I'm assuming Mr. Bruer hus gone beyond tonight. Board Member Villa: Evidently they haven't becaus~ he'd have the answer if he did. Board Membe~ Dinizio: No Board Member Villa: Yes he would. If he said it was perfectly legal, like researched it, txe could do all this. Board Member Dit~izio: Mr. Bruer feels that he feels confident that he can meet all the codes. Board Member Villa: He just said that if they find ~,ut he can't do it. Board Member Dinizio: Right. That's if. Board Member Villa: Well. Board Member Dinizio: But he's saying to us th~I he's going to meet all the codes. Secretary L. Kowalski: What ff you put an update oc :,omething. Mr. Rudolph Breur: We wanted to come in here a;~d decide that, we're going to have a philological discussion wh~d her structures meets codes. I thing it's beyond the boards functim~ to be talking about the codes, in terms of meeting the Building code, that not the boards function. The boards really here to determiae whether we should have a variance to be able to have two families here. It's the Building Department function to determine whether we meet the fire and the building codes. Board Member Villa: Ruby, I can grant you that but by the same token if a person is buying something, wouldn't you !hink they would know that they can do what they propose to do befor(~ they put their money down. Board Member. That's not our function. Board Member Villa: It is our function. Board Member Dinizio: thegn. I could care charged with that. No it's not. We're uo{ sol,pose to protect less if he ~nakes a bad decision. We're not Page 52 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Chairman: Let me just say this, O K If we had ~, poured cement building O K , where the wails were all interlocked s(, there would be no manipulation of walls as they function. That ce,dd be the case but we don't hav. e that deal, we have a wood structure. Anything could be blown out, and stairwells could be put . in. Anything that's required for health, safety and welfare of these people and anybody the~ intent to sell to, could be done. That's the reason why I would vote on it as it sits. If again, if you had the old lofts of New York City with steel beams running across everything and everything was all interrelated and you couldn't do manipulation like this, then maybe there would be a concern. But that doesn't exist here. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: No it doesn't. Secretary L. Kowalski: There's only one other thing. I think it would involve some concern i~ fire code regulations effected the variance or the special exception that was before the board. Such as the size of the property. If it was too small, say ti~at there was a very tiny piece of land and in order to have a two [~mily house you had to add on certain fire exits and stairways and .~o on, and you could not meet the setbacks, that would effect the va~'iance and the special exception. You are within the same building so there is nothing that is being done on the outside that will eff~+et anything. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: That's correct. Chairman: The only thing that you are going to give us Rudy if this does for tonight, you have to give us the square footage of the downstairs kitchen area, and the upstairs footage of !he second story apartment. Secretary L. Kowalski: I think he did that already th(~ugh. Board Me~nber Dinizio: I thought I saw it in tile file. Chairman: Is it in there. Secretary L. Kowaiski: Is it in there? Mr. Rudolph Bruer: The square footage of lhe downstairs bathroom? Chairman: No No. The kitchen area downstairs. Secretary L. Kowalski: The kitchen is 16 plus 7 inch(~:{ by Chairman: We got it, because we are going to resl,ict that in the decision to the apart~nent area. Do you understand what I'm saying? Page 53 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals The apartment to be created, if it is created tonJgl,t. O k So it's going to be that downstairs kitchen plus the upstairs [oft. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: I tl~ink there is a bathroom downstairs. Chairman: The bathroom, to whole thing before ~ve get to that freezer areal Board Member Dinizio: I'd like to make a motion that granted I guess it would be C. Secretary L. Kowlaski: No, A & B excuse me, yo~r right C. had them reversed. C & B for the two family Chairman: For a two family dwelling related accessory uses in former supermarket building. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: It would be C & D Secretary L. Kowalski: Yes. Board Member Villa: A variance for a lot area. Secretary L. Kowalski: Jim said he made the motion. Chairman: O K now. Can I just ask a question with,,ut putting any words in your mouth. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: That's O K. Chairman: For the area that we had seen, to confor~, for the second apartment. Is that correct, the dowllstairs area. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Yeah that's right. Chairman: That's what I'm trying to impress. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: Yes, it's there. Secretary L. Kowalski: It's on paper. Mr. Rudolph Bruer: It is there. It's 9 and oue half. Chairman: O K Secretary L. Kowalski: Is what you saw, is that wha{ it is Jerry? Chairman: Yeah. Page 54 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Dinizio: It's very close. Chairman: The only thing is, it excludes the stairwell going up, because that's in a separate back there. Board Member Villa: It got to go back there anyway. Secretary L. Kowalski: You're talking about living Chairman: Yes, do you see this. This is the room b~re, the kitchen and the bathroom. Secretary L. Kowalski: Yeah Board Member Dinizio: too. It's right here. The dimen~;ions are there Chairman: Just show her where the stairwell are goiug up Jim. See that stairwell is actually out of the living area. Board Member Diuizio: Secretary L. Kowalski: Board Member Dinizio: Secretary L. Kowalski: Right This one here, your talking ~d,out. The bathroom right there also. That's on the other plan Chairman: That's a better plan. We're getting there. Secretary L. Kowalski: There are a lot of plans in h(:re. Chairman: This is the ground floor and the only thing out of the area is the stairwell area so I think we would really have to go in there. Secretary L. Kowalski: That's not living area anyway. Chairman: No, it's not living area anyway. Secretary L. Kowalski: Now access to the second floo~~ apartment? Board Member Dinizio: Well yes, that's really living a,'~a. Chairman: So we're going with that whole area and you have to go up to here Jim. Board Member Dinizio: Right. To tile bottom ot' ~he top of tile stairs. Page 55 - Hearing Transcripts Reg~dar Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Secretary L. Kowaiski: As exactly as shown on thc plans. You're not changing anything. Chairman: No, I'm not changing anything. Secretary. L. Kowalski: O K Chairman: Let me just put a dotted lille across here because this is where the actual end of the living area is. Board Member Villa: 22 feet Secretary L. Kowalski: So which for the upstairs apa~'tment. Chairman: Yes. This, all this and then the stairwell goes up to the second story. Board Member Villa: 38 and one half feet. Chairman: Which is this. This is the second story ap,~rtment. Board Member Villa: Can I ask a silly question? You went all through all this. Why are you doing this? We're granting tln~m a two family house in a common area, what's tile difference. Board Member Villa: The difference is exactly what I said Bob. If these people intend to sell this property to somebody with fifty kids. I happen to work with a g~y that has 17 children. We could end up with the biggest house that we've ever seen iu our lives. Board Member Villa: What's is the difference. If a p,rson come here and buys a one family house. He has the right to do whatever the hell he wants to in 6500 square feet. Chairman: He is only allowed by law two kitchens ~ot to be used. Now if we grant this, he's allowed two kitchens. Ba~ uniquely, from law, from zo~xing laws by precedent of the court he's allowed two kitchens, not to be used in conjunction with each Board Member Villa: O K Chairman: That is a Hebrew situation the day of p(.rmit. So what I'm doing is restricting the living area, not the working area of the apartments. I am not saying that they can't ~se the common area as Living area. I'm saying it cannot be used ~s a, it can be used as a living room, so to speak. But I don't wan! to see further encroachment, elongations of kitchens and all this .[her stuff that would nornmlly be. Page 56 - Hearing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Villa: I'm just saying we're buying ~ pig in a poke here. If the Building Department goes back here and says we need another entry way because these bedrooms are two fa~' away from the stairway, we need another stairway. They are going to be back to zero. How are they going to do it? Secretary L. '-Kowalski: They don't have to co,ne back. Chairman: They don't have to come back. We just said, we could work out anything that they want. Board Member Villa: You're just putting dotted line~ in here,though you said. Chairman: I'm not putting dotted lines, I'm just definiug the law. Board Member Dinizio: He's just defining the law. Secretary L. Kowaiski: Defining the sepa~.ation l,,.tween the two apartments, that's all. Board Member Dinizio: Defining the apartments, ;,u~l then you're going to have a common space. Chairman: It's a common area after that. Board Member Dinizio: Right. Mr. Worthmiller: I'd just like to say the house will be (inaudible)Chairman: Right. Mr. Worthmiller: Actually two of those but I want to be close. Chairman: You're talking about that big ramp going ~p in the back. Mr. Worthmiller: Right. Chairman: O K, you made the motion: Board Member Dinizio: I made the motion, it will be C ~nd D. Chairman: O K, based upon that new existing. Board Member Dinizio: Do you want to define that. Chairman: We did define it. Page 57 - }{earing Transcripts Regular Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board Member Dinizio: Then we are going to state that downstairs is common area. Chairman: Is common area. Yeai~. Board Member' Dinizio: O K Secretary L. Kowalski: By common area you Art studio, is that what you mean by common area? Mr. Worthmiller: I didn't understand. The studio is c~,mmon area. Chairman: Common area. Right. Mr. Worthmiller: The exact downstairs where we will will be. Chairman: Right and tile stairwell area going upstairs.. Secretary L. Kowaiski: I have to know what comm(~,~ area is. you define common area. definition the mem~ for accessory Can It's not in the code and ':,e don't have a Chairman: It's area succinct from the two apartments. That's it. Secretary L. Kowalski: For accessary use. Chairman: Yeah. Secretary L. Kowalsld: Or storage space. Chairman: Yeah Secretary L. Kowaisld: O K ,that's what I thought you meant, but I had to make sure for the record. Chairman: 0 K, who wants to second that motion, i'ii second it. Secretary L. Kowalski: That is for both the specitfi exception and the variance. We're doing it in one resolution. 8:15 p.m. Postponement requested by attoruey fo~ the applicants (see letter copies for board members). Appeal No. 4:;14 - James and Barbara Miller, Contract Vendees. (Owners/Selle~.~: Paradise of Southold, Inc. and Others. Continuation of hearin.,Jg carried over from June 7, 1995. Location of Property: 580 Basin l~oad, Southold, NY, 1000-81-1-16.7 (formerly part of 16.4) Postponed till August 9th. Pace 58 - Hearing Transcripts Regxtlar Meeting of July 12, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Noreen Frey Prepared from tape recordings i~ECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTtlOLD TOWN CLERK Town Clerk, Town of