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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-03/01/1995 HEARING PUBLIC HEARINGS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD March l, 1995 (7:30 P.M. Hearings Commenced) P R E S E N T: HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER Chairman SERGE J. DOYEN, Member JAMES DINIZIO, JR. Member ROBERT A. VILLA, Member LYDIA A. TORTORA, Member LINDA KOWALSKI, Clerk-Assistant to Board Page 2 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals INDEX APPLN.# APPLICANT PAGES 4298-SE 4299 4297 4300 4301 4202 PETROL STATIONS LTD. ROBERT S. HUGHES CLAIRE CHAMBRUN GLENN SMITH EDWARD AND VIRGINIA THORP BARBARA DOW 3-5 5-8 8-10 10-17 17-22 23-30 Page 3 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:30 P.M. Appl. No. 4298-SE - PETROL STATIONS LTD. MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for Special Exception under Article VII, Section 100-71B for approval of office use(s) in this Residential-Office (RO) Zone District, in conjunction with the existing single-family dwelling unit, at premises known as 25235 Main Road, Cutchogue, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-109-1-23. Subject premises consists of a total of six acres, which is located partly in the Residential-Office (RO) Zone District and partly in the R-40 Low-Density Residential Zone District. I have a copy of a site plan produced by Thomas C. Samuels, dated 5/2/94, indicating the nature of this application, actually the nature of it is all three buildings that are on the property but the nature of this one in reference to density, the nature of this application is the real estate office and one family residence which is closest to the main road at its closest point of approximately 23 feet and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Who would like to be heard? URAL TALGAT: My name is Ural Talgat of Samuels & Steelman Architects and I would like to hear if there is any opposition for the project before I speak. MR. CHAIRMAN: Surely, no problem. You might as well just stay right there. Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Is there anybody else would like to speak against the application? Alright, I think we're all set. Page 4 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals URAL TALGAT: Exception for an office use it to be granted. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. Mr. us the entire place on Monday. just ask any Board Members if they Well basically we were applying for Special of the existing town residence and wish Gorman was kind enough to show We are well versed with it. Let me have any questions of you. Bob, Jim? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: No. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: Well, this has nothing to do with any or anything, right? Because, There's a subdivision pending this application has nothing to It has no effect on it, that's URAL TALGAT: MR. CHAIRMAN: on the amount. URAL TALGAT: Yes. MR. CttAIRMAN: Yes, alright. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: still, right now too, right, so? URAL TALGAT: I believe so but, do with it. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: right. further subdivision of this property originally it was being subdivided. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, at this time there is no subdivision but, correct me if I'm wrong, we are going to be placing a restriction in reference to the total minimum square footage in reference to the uses that are on the property. That's correct. Alright, and we're in somewhat unanimity I guess Page 5 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals URAL TALGAT: The reason why we're going through this, by the way, so that we can clear up the parking area in front of the building as the site plan shows and our original application to the Building Inspector was for a doing that driveway and so we needed to go through Special Exception to get this permission. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: Well that was a question that came up the first time because the driveway was way on the west side of the property and the neighbor complained about that. URAL TALGAT: We negotiated with the neighbor and our new drawing we showed that to the neighbor and she's in full agreement with what we have there. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: Alright. MR. CHAIRMAN: Good, sounds great. Any other questions? Serge? BOARD MEMBER DOYEN: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: I have nothing else. I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. URAL TALGAT: MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. You're welcome. 7:40 P.M. Appl. No. 4299 - ROBERT S. HUGHES MR. CHAIRMAN: Application based upon the January 23, 1995 Notice of Disapproval from the Building Inspector, requesting a Variance under the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-33 for permission to relocate existing garage as an accessory building in an Page 6 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals area other than the required rear yard. Property ID: 1025 Private Road #6, Orient, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel 1000, Section 17, Block 4, Lot 22. I have a copy of a site plan dated August 23, 1994 from Roderick VanTuyl, P.C., indicating an attached garage in a very beautiful two story frame home seen on a really gorgeous hill in Orient on this private road and the applicant wishes to detach the garage and place it in his front yard. It appears to be front yard and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody would like to be heard? How are you tonight Sir? ROBERT HUGHES: I'm fine, how are you? I'm Robert Hughes and I'll answer any questions you might have. MR. CHAIRMAN: In my two brief encounters with you, alright, and of course last week we really wanted to stay also and enjoy the views but we had to go on for other things. If you can just give us an idea of why you want to detach the garage? ROBERT HUGHES: The main thing is I'm, I'm, really fed up with everybody walking through the garage to get into the house. As you can see, I don't know how you approached the house ..... . MR. CHAIRMAN: I went through the garage. ROBERT HUGHES: Now, there you go. MR. CHAIRMAN: Actually, I did not want to be invited in carrying any dirt with me so that was the thing. ROBERT HUGHES: have a detached everybody always That's it, that's really the thing is I'd rather garage then have that inconvenience than have come in through the garage. The house is my Page 7 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals parents and I inherited it a couple of years ago and I guess it didn't bother them but it bothers me. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, as long as you don't have any particular problem then we'll briefly recite some of the things we put on accessory structures and that is that they contain usually the only utility of electricity and they not be used for any habitable standards other than you know what the normal restriction is on accessory structures. ROBERT HUGHES: The only thing I can think of is that at the moment we have a shower. MR. CHAIRMAN: In the garage? ROBERT HUGHES: No, the outdoor shower. There's an outdoor shower attached to the outside of the garage and I don't know how we're going to do, you know I haven't thought about whether we would, you know, we might put a little hot water heater out there so we, because it is hot water now, we're not going to run it from the house, but that's, besides that I a ......... . MR. CHAIRMAN: We don't have any objection to that at all. Does anybody have any questions of Mr. Hughes? Anybody, no, alright. You might as well stay right there. We'll see if anybody else has any, anybody else like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? I guess we're home free here. We hope to have a decision for you tonight if you want to stay around or you're welcome to call us tomorrow. ROBERT HUGHES: Good enough. Page 8 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you so much~ Hearing no further comment I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. BOARD MEMBERS: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 7:52 P.M. Appl. No. 4297 - CLAIRE CHAMBRUN MR. CHAIRMAN: Application based upon the January 3, 1995 Notice of Disapproval from the Building Inspector, requesting a Variance under Article IIIA, Section 100-30A.3 for permission to construct an addition to existing dwelling with a side yard setback at less than the required 15 feet. Property ID: 840 Pinewood Road, Cutchogue, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-110-5-25. I have a site plan dated 8/9/94 by Roderick VanTuyl, P.C., indicating a proposed addition attached to the basically rear of this one story existing house in Cutchogue which is on the corner lot and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Would you like to be heard? Is there anything you'd like to say for the hearing? CLAIRE CHAMBRUN: Our house is very small and we have two tiny bedrooms and we'd like to get a larger bedroom and the house also sits caddy corner on the lot as you can see and we're, in order to get a good size bedroom I need to put one corner into five more Page 9 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals feet a split. If I can't do that then I have to you know have a funny looking bedroom. MR. CHAIRMAN: One that has an eyesore. CLAIRE CHAMBRUN: Yeah, one that has a corner ( ). It's because of the way it's set. If I do go to the 15 feet, if I could just have that one little corner I certainly would appreciate it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. We'll see if any Board Members have any questions of these nice people? BOARD MEMBER DOYEN: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: We've seen this before when you have a house that actually straddles the perpendicular of the corner as it exists there. Lydia do you have any questions of those people? BOARD MEMBER TOTORA: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: Serge? BOARD MEMBER DOYEN: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, is there anybody else in the audience would either like to speak for or against this? Hearing no further comment is there anybody would like to make a motion? BOARD MEMBER DOYEN: I may close it. MR. CHAIRMAN: You'll make a motion? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. BOARD MEMBER DOYEN: I'll second it. Granting it as applied for? MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright and you'll second it Mr. Dinizio? BOARB MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, I will Sir. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? Page 10 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. CLAIRE CHAMBRUN: That means yes? MR. CHAIRMAN: That means yes. CLAIRE CHAMBRUN: Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: You're very welcome. 7:13 P.M. Appl. No. 4300- MR. CHAIRMAN: Have a lovely evening. GLENN SMITH Application based upon the December 19, 1994 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, requesting a Variance under Article III, Section 100-33 for approval of the location of existing accessory buildings and structures which will be in a front yard location, if and when the existing dwelling is relocated. Location of Property: 2850 Bayview Road, Southold, N.Y.; County Tax Map No. 1000-75-4-22.3. I have a copy of the proposed plan and a copy of the subdivision map and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. For the benefit of the public the request here is a relocation of the house, ttow do you do, nice to see you. Could you just state your name for the record. DIANE HEROLD: Diane Herold, Architect. I have with me Glenn Smith who is the current owner and I also have in the audience the former owner of this property in case the Board has any questions because this property has some history to it. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: What is the name of the former owner, please? Page 11 - Hearing Transcript Regular~Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals GLENN SMITH: Bayview South Harbor Partnership, BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Thank you. DIANE HEROLD: We're proposing to move the house back approximately 230 feet from its current location to the west. I have some photographs. I know that you've been to the property but I do want to point out a few things. The house currently is in a legal, in an illegal location with respect to the front yard and to the north property line as far as setbacks. The front yard is now 23.6 feet instead of the required 60 and the north property line is 13.4 feet away instead of the 20 feet. I have some photographs there from the interior of the house and relative the exterior showing the proximity to the road and to the property lines. It is understandable why my client wants to move the building because it consists of the property consists of 5 acres, 3.2 which we're in a land trust with Peconic. We feel that this property is unique. If you look at the tax map you'll see that many of the properties to the north and to the east are smaller pieces of property. This house has been in existence way before any of these other houses have been developed. We feel that this is a fairly unique situation because of the size of the property, the age of the buildings and the fact that we have a large barn on the property. It would be a financial hardship for my client to have to also move the barn. He is proposing to renovate the existing building. Put a new foundation underneath it and we will pave it. We feel that this action is in conformance with the character of the neighborhood in that we are renovating an older building. There had been renovations of other Page 12 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals older buildings in the area. Specifically I'd like to point out that the barn is about 135 feet, 185 feet, excuse me, from the street. Therefore, it is way, far away from the street much more than any of the buildings along the street. We don't feel that it would be an interference with the esthetics of that street. Also, there is a an existing accessory building in the front yard diagonally across from this property which we feel is a~ gives us a little precedent. Do you have any questions from me or my client? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, just in general, it, it's really not in violation. It's nonconforming, so, the setbacks are nonconforming. I mean, certainly I could see the reason why you wouldn't want to spend the amount of money they're probably going to spend in reference refurbishing or the reconstruction of this house and still have it so close to the road. I assume that that's the reason. DIANE HEROLD: Yes, that's it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Secondly, there's probably a questionable foundation underneath it and a --- DIANE HEROLD: There's a very small cellar at precedent and we're, we're questionable as to the rest of it, yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: We'll ask Mr. Villa or Mr. Dinizio if they have any questions of these people. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, is there any problem with the conservation easement as being that close to it? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: No, we have a letter and we also had a phone call conversation with them. They approved it already. Oh, Hi, Mr. Caufield. Page 13 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals TIM CAUFIELD: Hi, Tim Caufield from Peconic Land Trust and I just am here tonight to let you know that there is no violation of the conservation easement at all in the application that's being proposed by the Smiths. In fact, the plan that we worked through with the Croteaus that they've used our Bay View South Harbor limited partnership envisioned of a creation area and a --- BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, I'm just you know, swimming pools, whatever else, this way you're coming back to us again of a larger lot in that thinking of the future you know, if you do it if you want to put a swimming pool in or another building, a garage or, everything is going to require it seems to me in this position a variance. You know, if you moved it, I'm not asking you ..... MR. CHAIRMAN: You have to excuse us. We're taking this down so you just have to state your name before you do any hearing. MICHAEL CROTEAU: I'm Michael Croteau and we purchased the property and subdivided it and sold the farm portion to the Smiths and also it was myself and my partnership that reduced the density of the property and worked with the Peconic Land Trust on creating conservation easement. The easement does allow for it, unless you've read the easement line by line, it does allow for accessory structures to be built, agricultural structures in easement areas and there certain parameters that are allowable in that easement area. What the easement basically protects is that the space be retained as open spaces as best as possible and that no further subdivision happens on it. So, there isn't necessarily the house in that position Page 14 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals if the Smiths were say to put a, want to put a swimming pool and that was moving it to the east end or something on the north side what would have to happen is that they would both approach me, the partnership and the Land Trust and say here's our plan for this and then we would review it and say whether or not the easement we felt it was underneath the umbrella easement or whether it was a compromise. It's a, I don't know is a, we talked about the easement was drafted about the time we were talking about relocating the house to try to retain this confined feeling to this bigger lot and the line happened to be a little closer than what we originally anticipated but, we, we've gone over it a number of times with the Land Trust and then felt the easement would not encumber any future kind of plans that they have, so. MR. CHAIRMAN: Correct me if I'm wrong. The reason for placing a house in its present location, I mean in the proposal location is to try and save that little tree line that's back there or something of that nature? I mean if you move it forward there would be more devastation of vegetation, or? TIM CAUFIELD: Well, I think the location of the house what, what we had talked about was to try to create more of a classic barn yard to this farm that had a house stuck in the corner what was to be 17 acres and the overall plan for that piece of property is to now try to keep it very much looking like a farm from the esthetics so the location of the house has something to do with the location of the barn. If you drive down Bayview Road right now and most people that know that piece of property see another house on the property Page 15 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals that they think is the farm house to this larger lot and then what you see is the barn. So the barn is really what's most visible now. You know a beautiful old structure and kind of call it like a nature and the house is shoved in the corner so you don't even know it's there and what we're trying to do is the scenic view of that barn is going to remain the same. It's just that the house is going to be on the other side of it. The house is in a more centrally located area on the property. DIANE HEROLD: May I also add that to specifically answer your question, you don't want to have the front porch of the house right up on top of the barn which is a two story barn, a rather large blank surface. MR. CHAIRMAN: I couldn't agree with you more. Anybody else, Bob? BOARD MEMBER VILLA: I just have one question of Tim. If this comes up in the future and there's a scenic easement or you know something with Peconic Land Trust, do you have minimal offsets from these lines or not? TIM CAUFIELD: Well, usually there aren't. It either allows you or doesn't allow certain structures or activities within the easement area so in general there aren't setbacks from the easement periods. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: So, theoretically you could go right up to that boundary line? TIM CAUFIELD: Right. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: Alright, I just want to know -- Page 16 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals TIM CAULFIELD: There is enough of a buffer within the confines for any of the activities that either currently or happen or could happen on the open space. MR. CHAIRMAN: And any, it may, it requires a, just let me say for the record again, this question is directed to Mr. Caufield who had just spoken. It does not necessarily have to be in an aquarium use to be an accessory structure to go into that particular area that conservation easement, is that correct? I mean a swimming pool, I'm not saying these people are proposing a swimming pool, alright. An enclosed tennis court, an enclosed equestrian rink, a -- TIM CAULFIELD: Any accessory use has to be related to the purposes of the conservation easement in someway and the purposes of this conservation easement are agricultural protection, future agricultural use and the like and open space. So density and the like would be permitted structures and some types of buildings if they were related to the purposes of the conservation easement. Other than that all other structures are basically permitted. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, what, we're saying is that and again in no way this is a hypothetical situation that having sat here for the amount of time that some of us have been here there have been significant requests for lap pools because of heart patients and you know. Here we have a lot of property that we're dealing with. You know we're not dealing with a 3/4 acre lot on the Long Island Sound and what would have to be brought in is why is it going in the front yard area when it could go in the rear yard area. You .know, understand an easement is an easement it's not title or you know, but Page 17 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals that's the reason why we're bringing up that issue. You know, it's being at least surfaced here. Anybody on this side have any questions of Mr. Caufield? No, alright. We thank you so much for your presentation, it's a pleasure meeting you. Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against this application? Any further questions? BOARD MEMBER VILLA: Make a motion to accept it as submitted. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, I have a motion on the floor to accept it as applied for. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: As approved. Alright, we've already accepted it. MR. CHAIRMAN: I meant approved, excuse me. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: BOARD MEMBERS: All in favor? Aye. 8:05 P.M. Appl. No. 4301 -EDWARD AND VIRGINIA THORP MR. CHAIRMAN: Application based upon the January 3, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, requesting a Variance under Article IliA, Section 100-30A.3 for permission to reduce lot area and width (frontage) of two existing nonconforming lots, each with an improved dwelling, due to a proposed lot line change. Location of Property: 80 South Lane and 120 South Lane (a/k/a Oak Ct.), East Mai~ion, N.Y.; Gardiners Bay Estates Map, Page 18 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Lots 3 and 4; County Tax Map Parcels No. 1000-37-6-3.1 and 2.1. I have a copy of a sketch indicating lots A and B and the area to be exhumed as proposed and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Moore how are you tonight, Sir? WILLIAM MOORE: Very well thank you. Mr. Thorp is here with me tonight, owner of both pieces as you commented they're both improved by one family residences. We're here because I guess we're dealing with changing around two preexisting nonconforming lots and just kind of juggling some property and some square footage that goes to 2,625 sq. ft. to the smaller of the two pieces to allow for off-street parking having been up to Gardiners Bay Estates, I'm sure you know how narrow the roads are up there. If at some point in time the Thorps are able to convey one of the other parcels it would be a suitable feature to allow the inflicted purchaser to park their car off the street. MR. CHAIRMAN: I have to say for the record that this is the second time I have found the property that we've had as an applicant without having to go over Mr. that is a plus. WILLIAM MOORE: The first Sambach's house and asking him and time up there I didn't find it very easily. I went off and took a different direction. I don't know how that was but in any event we have put in an application for the lot line change to the Planning Board. They did the drawing you have before you as a result of a little bit of tinkering on their part which extended the area southward toward the Bay slightly such that Page 19 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals this parcel we could get access to the rear of the Parcel B. We have drawn that line basically parallel to the rear of the house and it was suggested by the Planning Board it was a good idea to extend this A section a little bit to the south so that we could just get around to the back side of the Parcel B. I do have a letter from the neighbor which adjoins to the west, Mr. & Mrs. Walz and they have no objection to the application as has been proposed. I'll submit that letter to you for your file. MR. CHAIRMAN: That's lot number 4, tax lot number 4? WILLIAM MOORE: I don't -- MR. CHAIRMAN: The one on the corner actually. WILLIAM MOORE: The one on the corner, yeah. My, my number is not clear on that. (Discussion between them) WILLIAM MOORE: Planning Board in the course of their review has issued a negative declaration of SEQRA under this thing and I said Mr. & Mrs. Walz. In addition that neighbor across the street on Oak Court, directly across from the property has I believe contacted your office. If not, they've spoken to Mr. Thorp expressing no objection to this application not that it would affect them directly necessarily, but the people across the way have no objection. Mr. Thorp is here, I'm here. If you have any questions we'd be happy to answer them. I don't think this is privy. MR. CHAIRMAN: Because of the size of the lot~ you know regardless of the fact that we're adding some three times eight is twenty-four, twenty-four hundred square feet too, alright. Page 20 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals WILLIAM MOORE: 600, yeah I think that's ( ). MR. CHAIRMAN: We would not rather see or I would rather, I have to say this, I would rather not see, alright, the movement of that dwelling to the Bay side, alright, because that would only further cause some significant variances. I mean even though if you carry the same line and you just mossy it on down about 240 feet, alright. I don't have any objection to it in that location and the changes. WILLIAM MOORE: Right and as you know we haven't asked for those and I don't even know how. I mean that would require a whole separate argument and presentation. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. WILLIAM MOORE: No, that's not, we have not been asked by. I don't put words in Mr. Thorp's mouth but there's no present notion to do that, you know, if they were to convey that piece out and ( ) that would be a great idea about doing that, I would let them cross that bridge when they came to it. EDWARD THORP: You mean actually move the house ---. WILLIAM MOORE: To physically move the house toward the back. EDWARD THORP: I wouldn't allow as the property owner of lot #4, I wouldn't allow it moved anymore than 30 feet up period. That would be conveyed in the deed. Neither would my brother who hunts on the other side cause that lot was put that far back just so that there would be --- MR. CHAIRMAN: EDWARD TItORP: yeah. Some clearance between the houses. A great deal of cleapance between the houses, Page 21 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March l, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to a do it after the Planning Board made you put that slant in there so that they could get to tile back of the house. EDWARD THORP: True, that's true. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, I had some comments about a subdivision down off of Bay Avenue last year when we were dealing with a similar situation and those are the ones that are all staggered in the same direction like this when you walk out. EDWARD THORP. That's a good point Mr. Dinizio, but there's no plan for us to relocate the house. I'll just leave it at that for the time being. 1 would, I'm going to have to probably get the deed and go to ( ) that it can not be used any ( ) feet up. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, which would also mean possibly a 30 foot addition which is moving the house up in the same thing. Actually because it's an addition to it. You certainly don't want to probably go to tile road you want to go up forward and I couldn't agree with you more. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, I mean, it's just my way of thinking that perhaps we should restrict it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well we will. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: To put it in our decision that a .... MR. CHAIRMAN: EDWARD THORP: BOARD MEMBER you We'll put it in. I'm not objecting to that at all. DINiZIO: I mean unless you want it narrow, if want it narrow that piece and bring it back some, you know, Page 22 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals using the same amount of land but bringing it back some, but certainly that's your --- EDWARD THOR]P: And bring the house back? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: No, not the house. (Discussions amongst themselves). MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, is there anybody else would like to speak? I must apologize to the public we're getting use to these new lights tonight and that's the reason why we have the dais lights on so on and so forth. It takes a little getting use to. Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Is there anybody that would like to speak against the application? Any further comments from anyone? Hearing no further comments I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. MR. CHAIRMAN: We only have one other hearing and we are certainly going to get to this deliberation tonight, so you're very welcome to stay or call us or whatever. It's not that we're, we really have not spoken about these so it's entirely up to you. EDWARD THORP: Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: You're welcome. Page 23 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:12 P.M. Appl. No. 4204 -BARBARA DOW MR. CHAIRMAN: Application based upon the January 10, 1995 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector under Article XXVIII, Section 100-280B and New York Town Law, Section 280-A for approval of access to premises known as 725 Private Road #4, shown as County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-17-3-11, Orient, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-17-2-6, and over a private right-of-way extending off the north side of State Route 25 (Main Road). I have a copy of a, actually it's a survey of this parcel and several parcels adjacent to it and then I have a second map dated October 18, 1994, indicating the extent of the right-of-way as it moves toward the parcel and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. How are you tonight, Sir? RICHARD DePETRIS: Square, Aquebogue, Good evening. Richard DePetris, i Union N.Y. appearing for the applicant. I believe you have the entire history in the record before you of this matter so I'll just give you a brief overview. We have a five acre parcel in a one acre zoning district which we are seeking to subdivide into two parcels, 3 acre, 2 acre parcel. We've obtained additional approval from the Planning Board. The Planning Board has also rendered a Conditioned Negative Declaration, easements, conservation easements, ere. property the Planning Board's request, easement that covers all areas outside of proposed lot 2 and including the covenant further subdivision of this property. So, various conveyance and and proposed on the including conservation the building envelope on that would prohibit any what we're talking about Page 24 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals is in essence adding in the future adding a future one family dwelling to this 5 acre property. It has to come before you because the property even has one parcel, has no access or frontage on a public road and the only way to feasibly design the subdivision given the topography of the environmental constrain, etc. is the manner that the Planning Board has conditionally approved whereby lot 2, I'm sorry, lot 1, which has the existing house would have this access over lot 2 just to the east of the building envelope on lot 2. I have also indicated in the supplemental letter to you after the application was filed that Mr. & Mrs. Rowsom, my client's neighbors, desired that we continue to use the existing driveway as located just to the east of the old burying ground rather than relocating that driveway to the 50 foot right-of-way as is shown on this map. Rowsoms would like us to keep the driveway where it is. In fact the driveway was put where it is some 20 years ago when the house was built on lot 1. You know, per joint conversations between my client and the Rowsoms who prefer the driveway where in fact and where it is rather than over the 50 foot right-of-way and we are perfectly happy to honor their wishes and continue to utilize the driveway where it is so that we don't have to stirrup any land area ( ) with theirs. MR. CHAIRMAN: That's pretty staple anyway. RICHARD DePETRIS: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: From what I remember. RICHARD DePETRIS: All we're really talking about is an existir~g driveway that would now in the future be utilized by both the Page 25 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals existing house and the new house for access. I have Mr. VanTuyl here tonight who is familiar with the whole subdivision history before the Planning Board and the topography terrain, etc., if you have any questions. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. Let me just leave it open for questions first, Mr. DePetris. Do you gentlemen have any questions of this attorney? Well, we're dealing with you know, New York Town Law 288. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: Right, I'd just like to have a decision you know high up that actual relocation of the easement subject to, because you know if that somehow doesn't become accomplished and in tile future they'll be disputed as to where this thing is and I'd like to see that clearly resolved. MR. CHAIRMAN: In other words you mean an abolition of the right-of-way or --- BOARD MEMBER VILLA: No, their talking about relocating the right-of-way to the area where the existing road is I~ow. I'd like to be sure that's accomplished. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is that going to be accomplished? RICHARD DePETRIS: It's intended to be accomplished. The Rowsoms are aware that at the moment we have a deeded right-of-way over that 50 foot right-of-way. They don't want us to use that, they want ..... MR. CHAIRMAN: Because it's closer to their housel RICHARD DePETRIS: Right. They want us to use the existing driveway which was put in by permission informally where it is some Page 26 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 20 years ago and Bill Price, the Rowsoms' attorney has told me that he would like to prepare an agreement between the Rowsoms and Dow which would relocate the deeded right-of-way from its present location to a location that would ( ) with the existing driveway. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, good. So in other words it's really just taking that section and placing it over here adjacent to the building. I had met Mrs. Rowsom when I was up there the first time. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: I would just like to be sure that actually happens because you know, maybe nothing would happen now but if they sold it and there's other people involved and somebody gets mad at somebody the next thing you know they're cutting off their driveway and I don't want to see that happen down the road. RICHARD DePETRIS: I don't think I'll have any problem with the condition to that effect so long as you understand that you know, it's beyond our control to force the Rowsoms to do this. They want to do it so I assume it will be done. If it doesn't get done we'll just have to come back to you .... MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, we would make it subject to that agreement existing because if we don't, then we can't grant New York Town Law 280-A over somebody else's property. RICHARD DePETRIS: Correct, we have no problem with the condition and if for some reason the Rowsoms don't want to sign an agreement then we have to go back to you. MR. CHAIRMAN: How much time do you think it's going to take, 90 days, 60 days? Page 27 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: A year maybe, or six months? RICHARD DePETRIS: Well after we get your approval we have to go back to the Planning Board to get final subdivision approval and file the map. I guess is, I'm not that, that familiar with the Town of Southold's Boards and how long it takes to accomplish something and I know the initial process before the Planning Beard took a long time. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I was talking about the written easement with the Rowsoms. How long will that take? RICHARD DePETRIS: Oh, I would think that would be wrapped up I would say 90 days would be amble time for that. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Alright, if you don't have it by then, then you can come back. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, now, we have not talked about improvements to the right-of-way at this point and we know to a certain point we have two sets of stone pillars and we know that there's a macadam leading up to a particular point. There's definitely a concern in reference to access for fire and emergency vehicles and 1 assume that with the magnitude of this property and the beauty of this property that no-one wants to preclude emergency or fire vehicles to go up there. There's no contest there. RICHARD DePETRIS: Whatever reasonable conditions you deem appropriate, we're anxious to get the approval done and have a subdivision. MR. CHAIRMAN: Good. Thank you Sir. Page 28 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals RICHARD DePETRIS: If you have any questions, I don't know if you have any thoughts on what you might want to do. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, just the approval from those stone pillars to the right-of-way site, alright. You know there's going to be some improvements and the improvements are if I have to vote on them their goner be to this liking, then I'm only reciting what my opinion is at this point. The potholes have to be filled and they have to filled with stone blend and then the entire surface has to be stone blend over the top and regraded and continuously maintained and the question is to what degree. RICHARD DEPETRIS: We're talking about over ..... MR. CHAIRMAN: We're talking about from the second set of stone pillars where the macadam stops, alright, to the, in my opinion at this point, to the driveway or gates that are gating the property. From that particular point on I will take some direction from the Board if they want to widen that driveway at all because it's going to be for two houses instead of one house and that's basically it. mean the driveway is completely stable. There is a sharp ravine where the burial ground is on the one side but I mean, you know I mean you can see that the driveway has been stable and there's absolutely no washouts or anything on that driveway. I didn't go over the top of the hill but that's my opinion. How are you? MR. VAN TUYL: I can see you've been to the property. MR. CHAIRMAN: Three times. Well I have to be l~onest with you and again I don't know why this is honesty tonight, but needless to say we're always honest. Mr. Douglas who of course sat on this Page ~9 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March l, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: normal restrictions 15 for fire trucks. Board from ]979 until his death was always very well versed with that property so we very simply would really meet Mr. Douglas in his house and we would go up and go through this. It has been a long time since I've had been up there and I assure you that I used my old four wheel drive and I did utilize it a couple of times during the ice and the cold weather that we had prior to this warm up that we've recently had. MR. VANTUYL: I know there are some potholes (inaudible, machine making loud noise) existing grip of the traveled road is about 12 feet now and it could be widened maybe to 15 and I mean any major construction trees and such things. We would never go any wider than that. The would be 12 or 14, cleared 15, overhead cleared RICHARD DePETRIS: Sounds like we have a consensus. MR. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have an objection to that? Alright, thank you. It's so nice to see you both. RICHARD DePETRIS: Should I call the office tomorrow? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes, call tomorrow please, yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes Sir. Just state your name for the record. GEORGE ROWSOM: My name is George Rowsom. I'm the property owner along the property on which the Dows live. MR. CHAIRMAN: You're the fellow with the white jeep. GEORGE ROWSOM: I never get to ride that. I would just like to reiterate that we would like to move the easement over to the other side of the property. If I could borrow a pen we could do it tonight Page 30 ~ Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals and you mentioned this to building that road is I want you to know that road was built bM Bob Douglas. MR. CHAIRMAN: Was it reaRM? Isn't that unique. That is unique. Thank you so much. Is there anybody else would like to speak either for or against tbi~ hearing? See no h~nds I'll make a motion closing the hearin~ reserving decision until later. BOARD NIEMBEI~ VILLA: Second. Mi~. CHAIRICa~N: All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. Prepared from tape recordings from actual hearings. LF RECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLW. RK Town Clerk, Town of~ Page 31 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals DELIBERATION AND DISCUSSION (DOW Application) MR. CHAIRMAN: Right-of-way be improved north of the east-west road to include the width of the macadam road or coming off the macadam road to appoint where the travel road starts and I'll talk 12 feet in width cleared 15 on both sides. When I say clear I'm referring to not regrading 15 but at least clear the brush or any existing trees or anything that would prevent a fire vehicle. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Does that show up where macadam is? MR. CHAIRMAN: Right here. This is blacktop. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: You mean 15 feet overall, not ]5 feet each side? MR. CHAIRMAN: 15 feet overall, right. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: You said ]5 feet each side. BOARD MEMBER DOYEN: Do you have a couple of stone plans? MR. CHAIRMAN: Blacktop. BOARD MEMBER DOYEN: Blacktop? MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, we want to go to the point of the right-of-way which is this point right over here and then from' 'that particular point on the maximum width of l0 feet cleared 14 on both sides. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: 14 feet wide, what's on the side? BOARD MEMBER VILLA: That's on lot 2 you're talking about. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, no, that's over the traveled road. From this point which is the traveled road to this point --- Page 32 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: From here?, let me just ask you a question. You said this is macadam from here up it's 12 feet in width? MR. CHAIRMAN: No. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: What's the distance from here to here in width? MR. CHAIRMAN: I just said it. At least 12. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Alright, so we're saying 12 is the minimal. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, 14 or 15 cleared on both sides. It's cleared already so it's not going to be any big deal. To the traveled 'road, that's the traveled road. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Alright, let's mark it traveled because it's not showing that on this. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, alright? And then from the traveled road up a minimal of 10 feet, 14 feet cleared on both sides. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: I don't see how you get 14 feet without going into .... MR. CHAIRMAN: Welt, its got to go this way. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA; And how far off --- MR. CHAIRMAN: It's not 14, it's cleared 14, it's not paved 14, it's paved 10. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: How far off to this property line is this road off this property line? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, you can see it right here. I can't, I-- BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Can we go-- Page 33 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: BOARD MEMBER I'm saying? MR. CHAIRMAN: BOARD MEMBER That's where we're going. TORTORA: Can we go to the north, that's what Yes, we're goner go to the north. TORTORA: I'm just saying Bob and Jim to go to the north of the burial ground. MR. CHAIR1VL~N: Right, well, that's what you would want to do anyway Lydia, because that's where the stability is over on this side. The stability is not ..... BOARD MEMBER DOYEN: Does the topography preclude putting the well right here? MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, it's close to their house. The house is right here. That's the reason why --- DOYEN: Oh, OK, that's the only reason that the BOARD MEMBER topography. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. have to be refilled with stone blend. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: blend or is it a mixture? MR. CHAIRMAN: 3/4" stone blend. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK. Now, the road at all times, the potholes What type? Is it pure stone BOARD MEMBER DOYEN: Is this macadam now or what? MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, macadam. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright and then the entire surface has to be surfaced for 2" of stone blend and regraded and continuously maintained. Page 34 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD MEMBER DOYEN: Oh, I see. You're not requiring this to be macadam, just stone blend, yes, OK. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, it's stone blend there already. Its just got a significant amount of potholes there, alright. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK, and just to a .... MR. CHAIRMAN: And then from here 10 feet stone blend because it's only about 6 to 8 right here. It's the width of a car. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: What do you mean 10 feet? 10 feet, you've already said 12 feet in width there. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: No 10 feet right here. MR. CHAIRMAN: 10 feet here. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Right? MR. CHAIRMAN: Traveled road 10 feet. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, 10 feet. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: 10 feet in there? Alright because you said 12. MR. CHAIRMAN: 10 feet, 12 feet cleared. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Alright. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: So, basically that 50 foot right-of-way is goner moved to the west so that it is adjacent to the old burial ground? MR. CHAIRMAN: That is correct. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Yeah, all I'm saying Bob is I just wanted to make sure that the clearing is to the north. Is that the north on that side? MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes. Page 35 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, we're, no this is east. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: Well then next to the burial ground so we give some kind of a ( ) buffer between the roads. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Well you're not going any closer to that burial ground? because it's like ...... MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, any improvements to the traveled road would be toward the Rowsom residence or Rowsom property, alright, because they have to cut this bank a little bit on this one side. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Well it is over the Rowsom property so it's ...... . MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, it's going to be toward the house. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It's going toward the house. BOARD MEMBER TOTORA: What direction is this, Jerry? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well that's actually north west really. BOARD MEMBER TORTORA: And this is, this goes .... BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: No, that's actually east. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: North is straight up. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: North is straight up. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is north straight up? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO Yes. BOARD MEMBER TOTORA: Open to the improvements would be the east then? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: BOARD MEMBER VILLA: going straight up. East side road. There's the north arrow, right here, it's Page 36 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: What is the base of the .... MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh, yeah, my hand was right over the top of it. It has a stone on it now. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: enough? BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: It's not bad all the way to the end. OK, so you think 2" will be not a bad road. The whole thing is I took my Van up there. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: And I was up there with my truck. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: And the rest of it then will ( ). MR. CHAIRMAN: The only place we've kicked up any was over at Stepnoski. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Before you put that away, could you just show me where the pillars are? MR. CHAIRMAN: There's a set of pillars here and there's a set of pillars .... BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: On the road I know but the other one I ( ) in front of me. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right there, right there. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Right. MR. CHAIRMAN: And this we refer to as the east west road, Alright, because this is a right-of-way. It goes this way, alright. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes, I know that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. I offer that gentlemen as a resolution and again taking into consideration ...... BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Bob wants to tie into an agreement, so a --- Page 37 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 199§ Southo]d Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, tied into a 90 day agreement, moving the right-of-way for the road. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: No, 90, within 90 days the agreement to be signed and executed and furnished to us. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: Right, with relocation to the right-of-way. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: OK. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: We're relocating it to the west. BOARD MEMBER VILLA: Right. Right, adjacent to --- DINIZIO: Along the property line 50 feet out to MR. CHAIRMAN: BOARD MEMBER the east. MR, CHAIRMAN: BOARD MEMBER Right, yes, it's a trade-off. VILLA: Well, I guess I'm little bit of a peace of mind anyway, I g~uess. I just want to make sure it's done. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah, then you have to take all these maps and burn them. Someone is going to find this ( ) and say, oh no, no, ( ). BOARD MEMBER VILLA: Well, you know what'll happen if they don't do it and they still use this somewhere down the line somebody says, man, somebody says, hey sir, you can't use this road, the right-of-way is over here. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Would anybody like to second that motion? Page 38 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of March 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Would anybody like to second my motion, it, you can make it, you don't have to take mine. BOARD MEMBER DINIZIO: I'll second your motion. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. or make