The URL can be used to link to this page

Home My WebLink AboutZBA-02/01/1995 HEARING PUBLIC HEARINGS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD February 1, 1995 (7:30 P.M. Hearings Commenced) P R E S E N T: HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER Chairman SERGE J. DOYEN, Member JAMES DINIZIO, JR. Member ROBERT A. VILLA, Member RICHARD C. WILTON, Member LINDA KOWALSKI, Clerk and Beard Assistant Page 2 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals INDEX APPLN. # APPLICANT PAGES 4294 4295 4296 4260 - 4262 MR. & MRS. JOSEPH DUGGAN 3-10 MICHAEL RACZ and GAIL DESSIMOZ 10-17 CHARLES TYLER, JR. 17-29 WILLIAM F. GASSER 30-62 Page 3 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1995 7:30 P.M. Appl. No: 4294 - MR AND MRS. JOSEPH DUGGAN MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for Variance regarding addition which is to be within 75 feet of the bulkhead and with lot coverage at approximately 27% for all building and construction. 330 Snug Harbor Road, Cleaves Point Section III, Greenport. I have a copy of the survey from Roderick Van Tuyl P.C., dated June 22, 1983, updated February 23, 1993 and amended January 8, 1985, indicating a two story frame house, approximately centrally located on the lot 35 feet from Snug Harbor Road. The nature of this application is a deck, a variable 10 and 12 feet wide, running the majority of the house on the west side facing Dawn Lagoon and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody that like to be heard? How are you tonight Sir? Would you state your name for the record. CHUCK BOWMAN: Sure, Chuck Bowman, President, Land Use Environmental, representing Joseph Duggan. First of all I have an Affidavit of Posting. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. CHUCK BOWMAN: Dawn Lagoon is a dug canal, a private dug canal. We do have a waiver from the Board of Trustees, the Town of Southo]d permitting this deck to be installed. We also have a permit from tl~e New York State Department of Environmental Conservation. The house in question, Mr. Duggan's house, preexists the 75 foot setback requirement and is a preexisting non-conforming lot. As far Page 4 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals' as the size of the lot it's 12,000 sq. ft. plus or minus. There's a practical difficulty in that Mr. Duggan cannot place a deck and this is a moderately size deck 10 ft. wide to 12 ft. wide and anywhere else behind this property to produce the amount of variance that is required. If you refer to the survey you'll see that the majority of the deck varies between 51 and 45 ft. from the bulkhead. It's only the north easterly section of it where a boat slip comes into the property that it reaches the maximum of 19 feet from the bulkhead. All the area seaward of the house between the bulkhead and the house is ornamentally landscaped at the moment. There is really no impact to the creek or per se and I can say there is a numerous decks in any area that are similar to that which is proposed from Mr. Duggan and if I can leave some photographs with the Board I'll refer to them. One house on Snug Harbor Road is owned by the Bunger Family and that house is about 37-1/2 feet from the bulkhead, one which I'm very familiar with is Mr. Collins's house which is on the opposite side of Dawn Lagoon and I represented Mr. Collins and the permit was, a variance was granted for that bulkhead which is about 47 feet from the existing bulkhead, a third one is the Simkin house which is, we didn't get to measure it but I would, judging from the photograph it's actually about 15 to 20 feet from the edge of the bulkhead and the last one was the Lichten house, and that's about 37 feet from the bulkhead and again you know these houses were all constructed l~rior to that 75 foot se. tback requirement so they have various areas as a backyard as stated in the application that the house now is only 35 feet from the Page 5 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals front yard. place that Mr. Duggan can put the photographs. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Let's questions that they'd like to grill you at. JOSEPH DUGGAN: Hi! My name is Joseph Duggan. MR. CHAIRMAN: How are you? They are minimal size yards so really this is the only his deck and I'll leave the copy of see if anybody has any Hi! what they did if you take a look at those photographs you can see on one of them you can see the setback where the bulkhead was pulled back 12 feet. OK, so at that point what I had was I had a bulkhead and then I had an egress and they weren't sure whether they were going to give me a drift for a floating dock so they told me that I could have a boat slip. So, that's how I ended having a boat slip OK. It wasn't even something that I wanted, OK. MR. CHAIRMAN: You have no intentions of incorporating this deck into your house as opposed to moving it or any of thai nature? JOSEPH DUGGAN: Not at all, I just want to have a place like you know right now we put a picnic table outside and it's all mud and dirt you know. Half the people sit there so I just want to have a place where I can put a table and chairs and stuff like that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any questions of either the applicant or the consultant? JOSEPH DUGGAN: Good. when I put the bulkhead property because I have a, When I built the house in 1985, actually in 1982, I lost approximately 12 feet of I had an egress in front of the house and Page 6 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: Yes, that last comment you said mud and dirt. think you got probably the best lawn I have ever walked on. JOSEPH DUGGAN: really work on it, summer. MEMBER VILLA: I You, you got to see what it looks like when we what it really looks like in the middle of the It's hard to believe. I mean I've played on a lot of golf courses. talk about mud and dirt I just, I can't quite believe that. CHUCK BOWMAN: I think Mr. Duggan would rather I've never seen a lawn that thick in my life, so you not walk on Well that was some questions I had. Now with you what are you going to do with that grass that's going to stay? Are you going to rip it up, or the lawn. MEMBER VILLA: building a deck, there? Is it just what? JOSEPH DUGGAN: Well, the Krass under the deck will just stay there. It's not going to survive under the deck. MEMBER VILLA: grass? JOSEPH DUGGAN: MEMBER VILLA: And you're not going to rip up the rest of the That's correct. Now, your survey here is going dimensions but that's basically to the You're showing 45 feet another 10 feet. JOSEPH DUGGAN: house, that's not counting the deck, right? plus or minus but, the deck is coming out No, the 45 feet is to the deck and is different MEMBER VILLA: That's not where the arrow is. Page 7 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHUCK BOWMAN: JOSEPH DUGGAN: CHUCK BOWMAN: It's 45 feet. I'm sorry~ you're correct. The 19 feet is to the deck, right, the 45 feet is to the house so it would be 35 feet. The 51 feet is to the house. It would be 41 feet. MEMBER VILLA: So, a lot of those examples you actually quoted are actually a little bit more than what is there now? CHUCK BOWMAN: Slightly, yes. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It's 41 feet or how many feet is the setback? CHUCK BOWMAN: The setback would vary between 35 feet, 41 feet and the closest being 19, 43 feet. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK, thank you. MEMBER VILLA: Is there anyway you can cut that deck off so we could maintain like a minimum of 25 feet? CHUCK BOWMAN: We went through this with DEC and also with one of the Trustees for their waiver. A 10 foot wide deck is really a It's not like we're proposing a 18 foot or 15 minimal size deck. foot deck. MEMBER VILLA: I realize that but you're going a,~ross the whole back of the house where you know if you want to put a table out you got, you probably still got 50 feet of deck there. CHUCK BOWMAN: Yeah, I still believe that if you, if you look at the decks that have been granted along this whole canal, you'll see that this deck even .in area is equal to a less than the decks that Page 8 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals have, that have been granted. is because of the boat slip. MEMBER VILLA: I realize that. and I think we .... The closest point is 19 feet and that We had another one similar to this CHUCK BOWMAN: And frankly so all of the other ones exceed that closest point if you will to the bulkhead. MEMBER VILLA: Now, we had another one with the boat slip and I think we stayed with 25 feet from the nearest edge. CHUCK BOWMAN: Well, I can say you know, my familiarity with that Dawn Lagoon which is a you know a dug canal, it's not a natural waterway it seems that the whole shoreline is highly developed by Mr. Duggan has a landscaping and native landscaping if you will further go down in front of the bulkhead. Many of the homes have lawn and turf areas that are greater that slope right into the lagoon. So, I think already we're starting at a point that is better than many of the other properties. I believe that's the point of the 75 foot setback. You know you want to keep activities away from the waterfront because they may infringe or adverse the flex of the water quality and in this case you know we have already taken care of that through DEC previous DEC purpose that have required the establishment of that landscaped area the retaining walls that contain in a storm water. BOB VILLA: You're saying that it doesn't slope down to that bulkhead? CHUCK BOWMAN: No, I'm saying that.the vegetation is there and the way the retaining walls having been setup are to intercept any Page 9 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals overland flow of water before they get there. You'll see the natural vegetation that's there in ( ) if you will before it gets down to the bulkhead. MEMBER VILLA: CHUCK BOWMAN: It still slopes that way though. Oh: Absolutely. The point I'm trying to make is that the storm water is interceptive as oppose to some of the other homes. Mr. Collins for instance you know just slopes directly his lawn and then flows over the bulkhead. MR. CHAIRMAN: While you're still there just let me ask if anybody has, anybody else like to speak in favor of this application? I guess that's about it. Ai~ybody like to speak against this hearing? We will attempt to address this tonight. CHUCK BOWMAN: Thank you. JOSEPH DUGGAN: Can I just say one more thing? See, the area where the, where the deck is close to the bulkhead happens to be right off my dining room, OK. If that had been the other end of the house I would have, I'd have no problem. I could move it, it would be easy to do. But, to have a deck to have it come out of your living room doesn't do you any good when your living room is on the other end of your house. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. JOSEPH DUGGAN: You see it may not ( ) in the house off the dining room otherwise I'd be more than willing to move it you know. MR. CHAIRMAN: The dining room is back of the garage? JOSEPH DUGGAN: Yeah, the dining room is there and the garage is over to the right, OK, that, that's the only reason I, you know --- Page 10 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: It's important to you. JOSEPH DUGGAN: Yeah, that part, you know, I mean, I mean at that point the deck is only going to be 12 feet wide so it just about gives me the 12 feet, I don't think, just, just about enough room to have a table and chairs, OK. I mean if I could do it and make it a little bit smaller if that would help any, I, I would but, I don't know if I can get a table and chairs on then, you know, OK. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. JOSEPH DUGGAN: OK, thanks. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Hearing no further comment I'll make a motion closing the heaping reserving decision until later. MEMBER WILTON: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 7:41 P.M. Appl. No. 4295 MICHAEL RACZ and GAlL DESSIMOZ MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for Variance to locate accessory building (pool house a/k/a bath house) partly in the side yard area at 4255 Private Road #10 (a.k.a Hallock Lane), Mattituck. Subject to final resolution for lot line approval and subdivision by the Southold Planning Board. KENNETH ABRUZZO: Kenneth Abruzzo from the office of Young & Young representing tile applicant. I brought up an affidavit of posting, if you would. MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure. Thank you. KENNETH ABRUZZO: First I would like to say that at the last regular meeting of the Planning Board, Towr~ Southold Planning Page 11 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1995 Board, they have approved the alteration and boundary lines so that part of the application has been taken care of and approved. The only condition being filing the deeds that the applicant has taken care of. When we were here before you the last time we, we had a pool and a proposed pool house that was located in the side yard and since that time we have indicated that the actual pool itself can be located in the rear yard of this piece of property which would not necessitate an appeal to this Board. The applicant would like their pool house and I might stand on that a pool house, greenhouse structure located in their side yard and adjacel~t to that pool. The applicants really want and you have the plans in front of you I hope, like to, one of your concerns was the height of the structure and the size of it and that it could not be used for living structures~ that you had problems in the past with people putting hugh pool houses up and the next thing you know there's eight families that are able to live in ii. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well the word is cabana. KENNETH ABRUZZO: Cabana, a communal cabana as you might say. But, this structure as you see is going to be.proposed to be wide open with glass enclosures that she'd like to hang plants in and grow ferns and things like that and the two enclosures on either end of this structure, one for changing of the pool and the other for the bathroom to the pool are very small 6 x 8 foot stone structures, decorative structures and the rest of it will be open to the sunlight and daylight. I know that's what the client would like and I thought that this plan also would take into consideration some of your, Page 12 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals what's the word I'm looking for, some of the concerns that you may have had about this being a habitable structure on a full-time basis. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. Do you have any idea if the building is going to be built lengthwise to the across? In other words, you know. KENNETH ABRUZZO: I think the perpendicular to the pool. They'll be pool. MR. CHAIRMAN: the property line? pool or is going to be built lengthwise is going to be 25 feet against the 20 foot Alright and what would be the setback then from Will it be about the same, 26 feet, or? KENNETH ABRUZZO: About the same. If you didn't hold us to the number we could make it the same but we'd like to sort of center it on there, so it might be 23 feet or 24 feet from the side lines but the more we can center it on the pool we would like that. I think the, the yard, there is a small amount instead of 15 feet so we're going to well exceed that but it'll be in the twenties for sure, 23, 24 feet. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright and you're going to leave it about 20 from the pool as before? KENNETH ABRUZZO: Yes, yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, I don't have any particular This is a one story structure, right? KENNETH ABRUZZO: Yes, the architect has also trying to work out the final designs with the glasses. to make sure that questions. they get certain pane shown, there I understand glass and he has on here Page 13 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals that case 18 feet. MEMBER WILTON: Is he also going heating equipment? MR. CHAIRMAN: It doesn't look like it. KENNETH ABRUZZO: No, I, I don't they can corporate that some place. the type of the structure is ll feet but not to exceed in any to house the pool filter and think so but, I'm sure that What is the size of the pool? 20 x 40, which is a standard It's 20 x 40. Pools come 18 x MEMBER VILLA: Alright, so if you're going to centep this auxiliary greenhouse, changing room and everything else on the pool and the pool is going to setback at 24 feet and you're cente:ring a building MR. CHAIRMAN: nice man? MEMBER VILLA: Yes, I do. KENNETH ABRUZZO: The pool is pool. It's not an Olympic type pool. 36, 20 x 40. This is a 20 x 40. MEMBER WILTON: I'm just wondering where it's going because it isn't show in any of the structures. KENNETH ABRUZZO: Yeah, I'm not sure but even, I could even talk to the architect about the enclosures. Those are not big structures as I know it -- MR. CHAIRMAN: No KENNETH ABRUZZO: And they might be able to incorporate it by the changing room by adding another foot or two to that, that little section of the room if they need more or cutting the changing room down a little bit and putting those structures in. Good. Does anybody have any questions of this Page 14 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals that's 25 feet and then another 6 feet how are you going to be in the twenties with your offset from the property line? You're going to be about 22 feet just from the center and then you're going to have a 8 a 6 foot changing room, you're going to be down .... KENNETH ABRUZZO: Yeah, my point is Mr. Villa was that we can center on this by sliding the pool over. The pool, the proposed pool structure will be in the rear yard and, and be over a hundred feet from the bluff and if the Board says we want this full structure to be 22 or 23 or 24 feet the pool, the cabana structure to be that we'll slide the pool over slightly. MEMBER VILLA: Yes, but you were leading us to believe that you were going to be in the twenties. There's no way unless you move that building. Mi{. CHAIRMAN: He's going to move the pool. KENNETH ABRUZZO: We could, we could slide the pool. MEMBER VILLA: You're going to move the pool on the building so you'll maintain 24 feet from both of them, from either one of them? KENNETH ABRUZZO: Sure, we can do that if that, that's what you want. I don't have a problem with that. MEMBER VILLA: Alright, because it doesn't add up the way it is now. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, you still have a great deal of distance between there and the two story frame cottage, right? Then that's the way you're going to go. KENNE'rH ABRUZZO: Yes, we're talking about .... MR. CHAIRMAN: You're just going to go deeper into the property, is that what you're going to do? Page 15 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, ]995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: to be ]00 feet away from the bluff --- MR. CHAIRMAN: No, he's going to Bob. He's going to go south forward. Well, if you push it over that way there not going go deeper into the property You understand what I mean? MEMBER VILLA: Then he's not in the rear yard with the pool. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: That's right. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, he is ..... KENNETH ABRUZZO: No, I'm not going to slide the pool Mr. Villa south at all. That has to be maintained in the rear yard. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, Oh, OK, it has to be maintained in the rear. KENNETH ABRUZZO: Right, we're going to keep the pool in the rear yard because this Board has already said they didn't want us to have the pool in the, in the side yard. We can slide that over 2, 3 feet to make whatever number you want the pool house to be from the property line. All I'm saying is that in this zone I believe the property line the accessory structure can be I hate, I hate to guess, but I think it's l0 feet or 15 feet from the side yard and I'm saying we can be 22 or 24 if that's what this Board wants. I don't have a problem moving things over. Even to the case if it wasn't perfectly centered by a foot I don't have a proble~n. We'd like it centered and I think we can slide the center the structure. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, pool over far enough that I could still do you want to come up with a number that you're going to be happy with? MEMBER VILLA: Well, if he slides the pool over he's going to be within 100 feet of the bluff. Page 16 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals KENNETH ABRUZZO: Well, I don't think so because the bluff starts to tail away froln that direction so I, unless I compute this out again and check it but as a surveyor I can work that out. Even if I had to cut down from that distance, you see 100 feet is to be a patio. I can always cut the edge of a patio down. That's not even to the pool structure itself, it's to a patio. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I think the setback for the pool has to be 20 feet from the side property line there. KENNETH ABRUZZO: OK, but, but again, I have no problems making it 20, 24, whatever you mandated us to do. MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you going to be happy with 20 feet Bob. I mean you want to come in another ...... I'd just like to have some sort of a number that I'm MEMBER VILLA: MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBER VILLA: Well do you want to deal with 20 feet? No closer than 20 feet. KENNETH ABRUZZO: That's fine. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, we'll deal with something like that. KENNETH ABRUZZO: Yeah, that's fine, I have no problem with that. MR. CHAIRMAN: I thank you Sir. KENNETH ABRUZZO: Thank you very much, thank you. Call tomorrow? Is that alright? MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes. Just before you leave we'll see if anybody else, is there anybody else would like to speak irt favor of this? Anybody like to speak against it? I guess we're clean. Thank you. Page 17 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Hearing no further comment I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER DOYEN: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 7:45 P.M. Appl. No. 4296 - CHARLES TYLER, JR. MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for Variance for approval of existing accessory building for housing of chickens with fencing, all less than the required 40 feet from all property lines at 1455 Pike Street, Mattituck. Mr. Tyler and his aunt are both friends of mine. Anybody have any specific objection to my officiating at this hearing I wish you'd raise that point at this point. Yes. MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: Will there be a bias because of this. MR. CHAIRMAN: Absolutely not. I have a copy of the sketch indicating the chicken coop and the fencing and the rear yard area well in the rear yard area at approximately 15 feet from the westerly property line and the building itself is 5 x 9 with a small fence enclosure in the front of it and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Tyler would you like to be heard? CHARLES TYLER: a variance. MR. CHAIRMAN: CHARLES TYLER: MR. CHAIRMAN: I believe my application states why I'm requesting How many chickens do you have now? I have six. Alright. How many are you intending to have? Page 18 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southo]d Town Board of Appeals CHARLES TYLER: MR. CHAIRMAN: CHARLES TYLER: MR. CHAIRMAN: I wouldn't look to have any more than that. When did this structure come into being? Approximately a year ago. Was it built on site or was it --- CHARLES TYLER: No, it, the building was given to me by a friend. I moved into the location that it's at now. When I got it I wasn't aware that I needed a building permit. I was to understand that I needed a building permit for something that I built myself. Therefore, I never pursued it and I was notified by the Building Department that I needed one and I followed that path and then I was notified that it would be disapproved due to the size of my property and the distance needed to be away from the property line and that's why I'm asking for variance. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. You're not the owner of the property though, right? CHARLES TYLER: No, I'm not. MR. CHAIRMAN: Your aunt is the owner? CHARLES TYLER: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. Let's see if anybody, anybody have any questions of Mr. Tyler? Jim? MEMBER DINIZIO: CHARLES TYLER: MEMBER DINIZIO: CHARLES TYLER: MEMBER DINIZIO: CHARLES TYLER: How many chickens you're going to have? I have six. And that's going to be it? Yeah, I wouldn't ask for any more than that. Linda said, no roosters. I couldn't be bothered with a rooster. Page 19 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: MEMBER WILTON: CHARLES TYLER: MEMBER WILTON: CHARLES TYLER: MEMBER WILTON: CHARLES TYLER: eggs for myself, OK. How many chickens have you had in the past? Six. Six were given to me and that you know. So, its always been. Yeah, its never been more than six? You haven't had any roosters there? No. The reason for getting them was just for my family. You know I've no reason to have a rooster. I'm not looking to multiply or that sort. MR. CHAIRMAN: You just answered my question. My question is, why did you want the chicken? I thank you. We'll see what the, you have no intentions of elongating this building at all? It's going to remain the way it is? CHARLES TYLER: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, thank you. Is there anybody would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Yes ma'am. Could you just state your name for the record. MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: My name is Mary Ann Fleischman Milligan. I own the house right next door to Charlie (Tyler). In fact I have some pictures to show the close proximity of the houses. Well actually I should say I own the house next to tile house his aunt owns. There's a couple of reasons why I oppose to the chicken coop. The first one being the noise factor. I have a wake up call every morning when I hear those chickens cackle so I whenever the chickens wake up that's with a when I and my family wake up. I, Page 20 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southo]d Town Board of Appeals we can hear them very loudly even in the winter time but it's more intense from the spring time until the fall when we have the windows opened and thank you cause you did answer my concern or wonderment of whether there would soon be a rooster to follow. My second concern is the sanitary concerns. I'm not sure where the feces of the chicken are going right now but there seems to be a pile in the corner close to my house. In fact, I have a picture here that at first I thought was some of the leftover ash from when he use to burn on, but that I understand my husband said that it's been about a month and a half that he seen this pile growing and if it were the ash like my theory then that would have dissipated with the rains and everything. So sanitary concerns along with the smell. The (word unclear) appearance which I brought some pictures just to give you an idea on the small amount of property what's back there. A chicken coop with a chicken fence and a dog house and the tile whatever that is and there's a boat that's been there for about two and, Oh, three-quarter years and there's two upside down garbage cans, one upside down garbage can on top of the other garbage can that's been there for about 2-1/2 years, 2. The lawn mower is out there that when I first moved in he stored downstairs in my cellar, I did him a favor and that's still out there 3 years now, there's tires that are just thrown there, there are well anyway you'll get the idea with the pictures that I will leave with you and lastly I don't know why the category of antagonist. If you want to call it attitude, if you want to call it historic, a non neighborly of tilings going on. I've had in fact, it's, it's interestingly to say that you have a Page 21 - Hearin~Franscript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals relationship with him, because every time I've tried to a work through difficulties as a neighbor. Charlie knows everybody in Town or he works with the Police Station so there's been preferential treatment from my perspective, fire person, whatever. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well that's where I know him from. MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: Yes, OK. WeLi in the past three years that I've owned that house and lived there 2-1/2 years ago he got a dog and that dog barked excessively outside when he had the dog outside. Charlie's schedule is such that he would be awake at three in the morning to go to work and the dog would be outside. Alright, so it's a nuisance, talk about it, get nowhere, basically he told us to go take a hike, called the police. This went on for over a year, alright, so the nuisance of that. Snow blower, we would pick up the snow on our sidewalk. In fact, one of his friends owns a snow blower that they were snow blowing and they would purposely come throw the snow back on where my would snow blow on a side window and Alright, so this is disrespect, burning. husband shovelled. They almost broke our window. It took me eight months of him burning and me calLing the police and calling the landfill and calling the New York State people, his total disrespect. He can do what he wants. The pollution polluted the baby's room, the smoke would go there, ashes that would remain smothering fire, he's a fireman, the smothering would be there for for days in a row. It would go away for the weekend, alright. I wonder about the ground board and I can't show it on the pictures where the ashes came down and burnt because it's kind of a hill from where he had the thing. Page 22 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals So, also there's damage from the side yard when he replaced a retaining wall and he's yet to really repair that, it got all of the sea erosion. So, I guess overall it's, it's this, he's on a small amount of property that his aunt owns, he's got all the stuff back there, now he wants to have the chicken coop which he's been there for the better part of the past year. It could have been last spring and I'm tired of getting woken up when he wants to, I'm tired of the damage to my property because he doesn't care and I guess I'm, I'm just, I mean if he wants chickens, he works on a farm, go put the chickens on the farm, Charlie, please. You've got a small property there. I'd like to have a little peace and I would like to be able to wake up when I want the alarm to go off not when you're chickens or your dog decide that it's time to be woken up. So, that's all I have to say and I hope there's no retaliatory measure to this time either. This is the side yard just to give you an idea, that's how close our houses are, alright. MR. CHAIRMAN: That's the retaining wall you're referring to? MARYANNFLEISCHMAN MILLIGAN: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: Those are the two houses to the property. MARYANN FLEISCHMANMILLIGAN: This is like the side view, so that's where my side porch area is and this is as if you're in the front yard looking down. My property line basically the survey is the retaining wall that the walnut tree is on my property and it goes down straight, OK. MR. CHAIRMAN: We're feeding these all to Mr. Doyen. Mr. Doyen is from Fishers Island. Page 23 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1995 MARYANN FLEISCHMAN: Oh, OK. This was from, this is outside my bathroom window and this is that walnut tree that is over there that I talked about and this bush here is the corner of my property, so you can see where the chicken coop is there and how close it is, OK. This is the pile of what I thought was ash, but it just stays there so it could be chicken feces for all I know that it's just sitting there. This is to show you all the stuff ill the back yard that is there. Here's another back view of that, of, my house is the green house and then his aunt's house is there. (The parties discussing amongst themselves) MR. CHAIRMAN: Can I just ask you a question Mary Ann about the chicken themselves. MaryAnn Milligan: Sure, yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: How much noise do they actually make? MaryAnn Milligan: Enough to wake me up every morning and that's now time also. In the summer time, I, well, spring I should say, as soon as the weather warms up we will keep the windows open all night long from spring through fall and a, I'm trying to think if there's a, well, the baby's room is the closest to that corner of the house, our room is on the other side. So, if it's not me waking up, it's she waking up, so, the family is being woken up and it's enough to where it is a nuisance. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, in your opinion there's no way of mitigating the chickens as they stand now. MARYANN MILLIGAN: On the level of the noise how do you stop chickens from cackling? Page 24 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, it, it's definitely not the dog that's upsettil~g you, it's the chickens? MARYANN MILLIGAN: Oh, no, I don't know what happened. It took a year and a half of the dog, that the dog no longer is a nuisance, no longer barks. Whether the vocal cords were operated on, alright, the dog is not a problem anymore which was great because as soon as the dog problem was alleviated we like a oh, thank God, we're going to be able to you know sleep when we want and then the next thing we knew chickens were back there so and that's why I even made, I'm glad to hear that the rooster is not on the way. But, considering the past experience I've had with the total disrespect of I, I also question whether or not roosters will neighborly conducts soon be there. MEMBER WILTON: You're talking would it help if the chicken coop was moved a few feet towards the east? MARYANN MILLIGAN: I don't think there's much room to move it east and it's the way that the property go is that, it's like there's a, the back yard of, of my property goes into a ]ow compared to his, it's just like a little higher, so I don't know what happens with the sound in that area but it really does seem to echo, so I don't know if moving it over a few feet really would do much of anything. level of six chickens in the MEMBER WILTON: What's the noise morning? MARY ANN FLEISCHMANMILLIGAN: Not to wake me up, I don't k~ow, I don't have a decibel reader, enough to be woken up in the Page 25 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals winter time, just normal sounds, I don't know, unless you want to get up. MEMBER WILTON: No, could you compare it to some other noise that you know might, be familiar with? Horn honking, geese overhead? MARY ANN FLEISCHMANMILLIGAN: No, not geese, no geese overhead cause they fly over you know, they have their own pattern over the area there and they've never woken me up. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Is there a nursery school still in the back? MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: Yes. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: The children go outside, right? MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: Yeah. They're not there at 5:30 in the morning. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: That's early. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is this a noise that continues or do they eventually settle down? Is it a noise that could be --- MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN MILLIGAN: They settle down within about a half hour, forty-five minutes. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, so it's not a noise that would be caused by other animals that would be a cat or anything of that nature? It's the same time every morning? MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: Yeah, well yeah, well and it also depends on sunrise, that's when the chickens rise up. Because, thereafter, thereafter then, then when I get awake after about 20 minutes it's like OK, this isn't going away so I'm not going to be able to fall back to sleep, then I get up and then I take my dog out Page 26 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals and she goes promptly out back there because she hears the chickens so she starts barking at the chickens. I have an invisible fence so my dog stays inside the perimeter. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, thank you. MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Not to get into a counter productive situation but we'll ask Mr. Tyler if there's anything he would like to say. CHARLES TYLER: If there are any changes you'd like me to make I have no problem doing that. I live right there, I don't, I don't find a problem with that. MR. CHAIRMAN: So you would be willing to clean up the yard and so on and so forth. CHARLES TYLER: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: Move the chicken coop? CHARLES TYLER: Yeah, I have no problem with that, like I said, you know, I don't have a problem with it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. Does anybody have any questions of Mr. Tyler? MEMBER VILLA: Yes, they said you work on a farm too? How far away is the farm? CHARLES TYLER: Not so very, a quarter of a mile. MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: Question. If your determination is to move it, is there a way that you could have a stipulation that we test one because if, if it's going to be a decision on that he move it and it's still problematic I would like to know if there's a recourse that I would have because going back to my, my theory of Page 27 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals the way the sound travels back there that I don't thiuk because he's got such a small amount of land, I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference and I guess I'm anticipating that the decisions like all the other decisions in the past seem to go Mr. Tyler's way. Is there a recourse after that? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, let's put it this way. We could ask Mr. Tyler to clean up the entire yard alright, move the chicken coop, alright. If Mr. Tyler chose not to do that on the Board's own motion we would reconvene the hearing and take away his right to have the chicken coop and we've done that in the past, not ill reference to a chicken coop but in reference to other things, alright, so, I really don't know how with you Mary alright. I may anybody had hearing. I the Board feels on this. I'll be perfectly honest Ann, I don't even know how I'm voting on it, just abstain, alright. All I ask you to do is, if any particular objection for me to officiate at the think I've done as best as I possibly could at this point, alright. I don't know at this point, we end up in a situation where we don't go out on inspections together, the League of Women Voters have asked us not to do that, alright, so then we don't talk about the individual hearings until we actually come here. We don't deliberate until after the hearing and so I can't tell you how it's going to go, alright at this point. MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: I just think this is making me paranoid. MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Tyler. Page 28 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals CHARLES TYLER: I have one question. Out of all the other adjacent property owners has a complaint been made or are there any complaints in the last year on this? MR. CHAIRMAN: We wouldn't, we have no, CHARLES TYLER: we're not privy to any OK, all people that are involved that were given a notice, the same as Mary Ann was, did anybody make a complaint of that nature? MR. CHAIRMAN: I have nothing in the file. We did have a letter from Mr. Hallenbach which he withdrew his objection. MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: And what difference does that make? Maybe people are not as comfortable speaking out as I am. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: No, he gave a letter saying he would approve that location with six chickens. He didn't really withdraw, he said with those conditions. MEMBER VILLA: And when the six chickens are gone that the coop be removed. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: That's right. MARY ANN FLEISCHMAN: He works on a farm, I still say let him go to the farm. MR. CHAIRMAN: I was just thinking. What would happen if the chicken coop was actually turned around and the fencing was to the rear of the property so that the deadening sound actually was the coop itself towards your property. I mean certainly -~- CHARLES TYLER: Like I said before I have no problems with any of that. Page 29 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southoid Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: All I can tell you at this point is that we'll kick it around and we'll see what we can do in the most trite sense that I can make that phrase. In no way, alright, in my questioning your opinion in reference to the amount of noise that these chickens are making, alright, I just never heard chickens make that much noise and now please this has nothing to do with your statements and your MARY been ANN FLEISCHMAN: I'm not taking it personally but it has an interesting three years of having moved into the neighborhood, so this, you don't worry about it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, thank you very much. Hearing no further a motion closing the hearing reserving decision comment I'll make until later. MEMBER WILTON: MR. CHAIRMAN: Second. All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much for coming in everybody. For everybody who is concerned about this we have approximately 60 days to make a decision on this, actually 45 to 60 days. We're certainly not going to make that. We're going to make a determination as soon as we can, alright and it depends upon how long the hearings go tonight and so on and so forth, but we may have a decision tonight, I don't know. Page 30 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:15 P.M. Appl. No. 4260, 4261, 4262 Applications of WILLIAM F. GASSER: MR. CHAIRMAN: These are hearings for Variances concerning property known and referred to as the American Armoured Tank Museum, 640 Love Lane and the south side of County Route 48, Mattituck, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-140-2-16 located in the Hamlet Business Zone District, and is continued from the last regularly scheduled meeting and I think we'll start out with Mr. Blass. How are you tonight? GREG BLASS, ESQ.: Good evening, Mr. Chairman, gentlemen. I have several items I'd like to submit for the record. And first I'll state them as I present them is a statement of posting required for the record again, the second is I know that a letter from the Chamber of Commerce was presented here originally. Do you have that ? MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we do. GREG BLASS: I have a copy that I'll give, together with a copy of our Reply Memorandum, a copy of which I have for each Member of the Board and finally I have a total of 125 petitions from residents of the Town of Southold that relate to the activity of the applicant. I'll be brief in my comments, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to say that having had the opportunity to read the papers submitted by the objectants, Mr. & Mrs. Amaretti, I have to take serious issue in which the way the motives and actual the conduct of Mr. Gasser and the American Armoured Foundation having fictionalized suggesting Page 31 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals that in one place, one quote is that "they have knowingly violated Town Law for 13 years." I would point out that when the applicant purchased this property it was used for storage, and it had access to the public. Not museum storage, but it was storage of lumber and commercial and private individuals went to the property under the previous owners use and went there in considerable volume and removed materials from the property. It was a good-faith intent on the part of the applicant to continue a similar though not identical use with the CO that he was able to get and to suggest that they have flaunted or violated the law for this period of time really overlooks a scenario that I think is pointed out on page, starts on page 3 after discussions had been had. First discussion was actually between Mr. Gasser and the Board in 1980. That was not, there was no inference that the items would be stored in a building. The 20 items that he had alluded to in that conference of restoring them and displaying them having enough space between them so people could look at could never have been accomplished in a building that size in that number of vehicles. But then when the Amaretties moved in which actually was six years after this operation was underway we had a series of events that involved constant visits by Mr. Gasser to this building and by their attorneys, the respective attorneys who preceded myself. And I point out August 28, 1991 the Planning Board required revision to the site plan, discussions followed, application to the Building Department in December of '91 for a Tower Permit, January of '92, Notice was given of Disapproval February 25, '92, Page 32 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals application for Variance for the tower, April of '92, request for conferences with the Town Attorney and the Zoning Board after numerous discussions told the applicant, convinced the applicant that a zone change would be needed, and by the way, here's an example of the way our efforts in this regard have been twisted. They were not told out of the blue by a letter from the Town Attorney, look we're not going to tolerate this anymore, get a zone change. This was a suggestion that the applicant, Mr. Gasser and his attorney made to the Town Attorney in a personal discussion. The Town Attorney considered that suggestion, brought it back to the Town Board, and then based upon the input of the Town Board got a letter out to the applicant suggesting that the zone change was a good idea. That's what that letter was about. The quote taken out of context from that letter is just one of many examples of the distortion that we're very concerned with. I would just let the Board review the rest of the scenario that had been followed in good faith over a period of years that true has only some documents in the record but every of the Building Department, the staff to the Zoning Board and the Planning Board are all well aware of the real yeomen's effort that these people have put into keeping this thing in harmony with what the Town wanted and there has not been one directive, not one requirement that the Town of Southold has made with respect to this property that my clients have not followed and followed to the letter. And they're still doing that right up to this application today. Page 33 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals I would also point out on the Reply Memo that we have that we have shown the difficulties being very practical difficulties as a basis for an area variance. We point out that the property's L-shaped configuration. The L-shape configuration alone, the dimensions alone were the basis of this Board's decision of May 4, 1994. Talking about the virtual impossibility as to future construction on the property. There are Court cases that establish that. That is an important factor. And I can also point out that some of the cases in the memo that the objectants cited themselves stand for a very important proposition here, a very important proposition and that gets back to the point of why we should not really take as seriously as they would have us take a threat to take this all to court and that these proceedings are just a dry run. Remember, gentlemen of the Board, that the Zoning Board of Appeals not only put into cases that were cited by the objectant but also according to the Jordan Partners' case which was decided in the Court in the Appellate Division with respect to actions taken by this very Board, that it is the Zoning Board of Appeals that has primary jurisdiction. Primary jurisdiction in interpreting the code. So I think a Court will very highly regard whatever decisions and whatever scenarios have taken place with respect to these applications up until now. Both the Town and the applicant contrary to what has been suggested have been doing a long series of efforts and work in administrating the Town's regulatory authority as it would apply to Page 34 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals the applicant, to the applicant's property and to the applicant's use of that property. And I also would point out that the Town Law 267B requirements are met here. We will point out that the neighborhood of the community where this property is located is a very important factor in what your decision should be. This property is not on an island with the only other affected property being the neighboring residential/commercial property that's owned by the objectives. This property is in a neighborhood that has a tourist and commercial base. It is a property that is used in a way that attracts tourist economy. Tourism is a recurrent theme in the Master Plan of the Town of Southold. And I would point out that any kind of museum that has military artifacts dating back to the American Revolution is a tourist based facility. It is not a World War II machine storage place as is contemptuously stated in the papers submitted by the objective. And I would also point out that whether or not the applicant reaps a debtor profit out of this variance being granted is not really an issue here because the applicant is a non-profit corporation. It doesn't make money on this kind of activity. In fact, some complaint has been suggested that there's been no financial information offered about what the applicant does in terms of dollars and cents. Well, I don't have a statement to give you in writing tonight but I can tell you that the total cash income that derives from American Armoured Foundation activity at this property is about $25,000 and that includes a small gift shop and it includes Page 35 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals admissions charged to visitors. The contribution that is personally made by Mr. Gasser, himself, to this operation totais about $124,000 a year of his own money and that total goes to expenses that range from advertising, payroll, payroll loans is about $25,000 annually, insurance, accounting services, parts for equipment and supplies, delivery and freight charges, building repairs, ground maintenance, all of that is where this money goes to. There is no profit. There's nothing taken home. It's just the opposite. It's given in, so I don't think that we're talking about reaping benefits of profit or profitability that some of the cases that have been cited in the objective's memorandum suggest to you, but I think the conclusion can be made Members of the Board that this application to this variance is the result of many appearances before all the Planning Board and Zoning Board and the Town Board. The applicant has cooperated, will continue to cooperate and I ask that every consideration be given to not only what this property is on the very difficult dimensions it lies but also what it is contributing to the community and to actually the heritage of this nation as it can be found here in this Town of Southold and the community of Mattituck. I think that they deserve the consideration that their being asked. It is not outlandish. These variances are slight, and they will go a long way towards the system of the operation in maintaining the character of the displays and the operation that they have. MR. CHAIRMAN: Can I ask a couple of questions, Mr. Blass? GREG BLASS: Sure. Page 36 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: When they purchased the property, the Gassers in 1980, the zoning on the property was Light Industrial wasn't it? GREG BLASS: It was zoned C and at that time there was no published regulations that related to outdoor displays. That occurred subsequently when the master plan was adopted. MR. CHAIRMAN: Then it switched to what? What were they changed to? GREG BLASS: LI. MR. CHAIRMAN: LI, Light Industrial. Now, what precipitated and I know that we had discussed this several times but just so I can keep it fresh in my mind, what precipitated the change to HB. GREG BLASS: The application made before the Town Board and that was precipitated by the apparent difficulty in getting a clear sense of direction from the Building Inspector and from the Planning Board in the site planning view process so the suggestion was made that a zone change be applied for and that suggestion was accepted by the Town. It wasn't imposed by the Town as it had been suggested. MR. CHAIRMAN: So it was changed then from LI to HB. Ok. Let's go back to the fence for a second because the nature of this hearing is all three hearings in one. GREG BLASS: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: The fence is approximately how high at this point? I heard 5 foot 6 inches and then I heard, maybe Bill can tell us. MR. GASSER: OK, the fence height is 6-1/2 ft. on the side 6.8 feet on the front and then it has a double barbed wire extension above that. Page 37 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: What did you say it was on the side? MR. GASSER: 6.5 feet. MEMBER WILTON: Is that to the top rail? MR. GASSER: I'm sorry. MEMBER WILTON: Is that to the top rail? Is there a top rail? MR. GASSER: To the top rail, but below the barbed wire. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there a specific and please I realize that there are particular reasons for these things but is there a specific reason for the barbed wire? I mean I know the reason for barbed wire, alright. GREG BLASS: Yes, that it's because in the arrangements that have been made for the delivery for the receipt of some of the artifacts so the displays requirement has been made by the Federal Agencies that there be a better protection than just a simple fence and that's why the barbed wire was placed there in order to be eligible to receive some of these exhibits. On top of the overall problem of people who have climbed the fence before the barbed wire was there who were able to enter the property. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. There is no physical way that I mean all they could do though is malign or damage the specific units there they could not start them or anything of that nature to my knowledge from what I gathered from Mr. -. GREG BLASS: That would be physically impossible. MI{. CHAIRMAN: Ok. Does anybody have any questions about the fence before we go any farther? The attorney has now explained to us why the barbed wire is there. Page 38 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER WILTON: Is that requirement documented some place from the Federal Government? GREG BLASS: We can get documentation for you, sure. MR. GASSER: I'm operating on a defense security manual. They set the parameters when I established the museum. They argued the issue and wanted a 10 foot fence with double wiring because these weapons are live. I have a live weapons museum. That's what we are and they said they wanted a 10 foot fence and I said that's not going to fly in town when I have to keep it to a reasonable size. More conventional size which is a 6 foot fence, airight. It's just a barbed wire, it comes out to wherever it comes out to when you purchase that way. So that's where it came from. They let it ride. They want to put an (word unclear) over to us now and they brought the 10 foot issue again and that tank is still being deliberated on pending their review of my security systems. So, the defense is still an issue even with them. MR. CHAIRMAN: Could that be changed, Bill, by putting sensors in the fence? I mean I realize that's a great expense of putting sensors in the fence. MRS. GASSER: Electric sensors. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, well yes, similar to what they have in jails. MR. GASSER: We did some inquiries with our alarm company on it and the best it turns is a visual something. I understand that the interpretation here. I mean I don't like barbed wire either. It's just, you know, it's not the most esthetic pleasing thing in the world but it serves a purpose, it serves a purpose of deterring Page 39 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals anybody from coming in and doing injury. If anybody gets hurt on those things, I'm the one responsible. The Army doesn't care. I'm the one who has to take the rap on it. I have to bring any misappropriation or misuse of anything in the museum. In firearms if you lose a firearm you're guilty not the person who takes it alright. I have to have the maximum security possible in order to make Uncle Sam feel comfortable to allow the installation to sustain operation and I said I had to I have a whole set of cameras, I have arm guard service and alarm system to central station. The best army bases in the world don't have what I have. I have the top of the line full alarm system you can have. But, you still have to allow for you know, the unexpected. That's the general public. they want to hop on something and get in there and do damage, you know, the police they raise their hands and say we're not responsible, you're responsible. The Army also to me says the same thing. I have to protect it. I have to be wary of lawsuits. I have to be wary of anybody getting hurt. I don't want it to happen. The best way I thought I could prevent it was using the double V type system on it because I was a kid too and I climbed barbed wire fences, OK. I think we all, every male child probably at one time or another hopped the fence, OK, there are ways of still doing it. The barbed wire it's just as hard getting in as it is getting out with the double V at the top and that's, even most military installations are going to go with that fence because it costs a lot to put it up. I'd like it to be built by the double V because it was a small addition at the time and got that extra security. Page 40 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: When approximately did you put that fence in Bill? MR. GASSER: Gee. I guess 1981. North Fork Fence put it in for us. MR. CHAIRMAN: 19817 MR. GASSER: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, now we go over to the tower. I believe there is a variance of a setback on the tower. GREG BLASS: Yeah, the tower I can tell you, Mr. Chairman, was moved 100 feet back as per the Town Board. We actually moved it back at that point 100 plus some feet. Then the tower was moved again to the rear corner as per the Planning Board. It is 9 inches by 1'7" less than the 5 feet from the rear line requirement, and it is a full 2 feet less than the 5 feet of the side yard and that so the variance would be for the 1, 9 by 1-1/2, 1.7 and by the 2. MR. CHAIRMAN: And it's been lowered? GREG BLASS: And is now, is now 17 feet 8 inches high. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, good. Does anybody have any questions of anyone about the tower? I realize you may have questions later. I mean I'm just asking on the Board if anybody has any questions? By the way you might want to review these (end of tape). Does anybody have any questions about the tower and its particular placement at this time? MEMBER VILLA: MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBER VILLA: parking? Well, why was it placed there? Planning Board. I was led to believe because they wanted some Page 41 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: MRS. GASSER: observation point. MR. CHAIRMAN: was the reason. GREG BLASS: Well it was placed in the back by the Town Board as a condition to the zone change. MEMBER VILLA: Right. GREG BLASS: It was placed in the corner by the Planning Board in their site plan review process which is still pending. MEMBER VILLA: For what reason? MRS. GASSER: It was placed there by the Building Department. They told us we had to have it in the rear yard. Now the Planning Department, the Planning Board is saying OK, you need parking spots there, and we can't give you the five parking spots there until you have to move this out. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. What is the specific purpose of the tower? It just adds to the ambiance of the museum. Is that particularly what it is? MR. GASSER: I bought it for an exhibit. Ok. That tower stood in Mattituck for 50 years. An In the news. I have to ask the question. I assumed that that MR. GASSER: It was at one time taller. GREG BLASS: It's diminished in size, but it has a memorial function because it is also similar to towers that were in certain POW camps so it's considered, it's regarded and displayed as a memorial tower and it's also a historical artifact because of what it actually was at one time though it's lower now. Page 42 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Ok, so then we go back to the outside issue, the outside display issue; and that appears to be the remaining issue that's before us and again I'll ask if anybody has any particular questions of either the applicant, his wife, or their attorney? MR. GASSER: I'd just want to say if I could, Mr. Chairman, on the issue of display - it was suggested that by the objectants that we put up a building for displaying interior display. With the configuration and the dimensions of this property, that would be that would necessitate as even more variance than what we sought already. It would further make display of only possible of a far fewer amount of artifacts. Probably less than half of what we have there now. It would probably make the museum less than viable an operation, but I think that the outdoor display issue is truly mitigated if I could submit respectfully to the Board by the environmental requirements that have been promulgated by the Board and which have been complied with already with respect to the drip pans and the tarpaulins and the regular, regularity inspection by on-site personnel that has been established. So, we think that has accomplished much of the concern that would arise from the outdoor display, and we feel that it mitigates the problem, and it deserves the Board's consideration that they regard the viability of this operation. MR. CHAIRMAN: Ok. Any other questions of the applicant or his attorney regarding outside display? (none) No? OK. We thank you Mr. Blass, we'll see what develops. I'm sure we'll see you back shortly. Page 43 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals GREG BLASS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Yes, Sir. You're welcome to use the mike or stand or whatever you'd you to use the mike if you don't mind. WILLIAM MACOMBER: Good evening. like to do. I think we'll ask How are you tonight? I spoke last week. I got a few things wrong, but this evening a few friends from friends and members we've collected a petition on people that were for this particular variances. I know the Town has codes on height requirements and everything, but I've expressed my views to Mr. and Mrs. Gasser and a few other veterans that it makes me feel a slight hand bad because something that is rare marking in remembrance of the POW - MIA, I felt kind of bad to see the tower being shoved to the rear. Not anything on your part, but the government was always shoving the POW and MIA to the rear. And I know you have your requirements of height and all, but I was kind of upset about that totally. We've gotten a lot of support on the petitions. We had a very good outing this week. Another item that was brought up in the last meeting was the property next door, having brunches in the Spring and Summer which is wonderful. The museum happens to open up at their time or brunch time. I happened to be at the museum this Sunday because there was a function going on, and I also noticed that pretty close to schedule each Sunday, the Long Island Railroad comes through and I believe that makes just as much noise as the machinery that is being operated. When I was to these functions that 4æy7«e 9È2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•?@1ùn D‚úaÈ<u¥9t>+iGíÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•þ?B´—†üÙC„ßaÈDÃNKe×öPÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•™?;Jd¢uO”/aÈFä§½ìIìÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•ç9?*D&é•¼¼F„aÈGáXS[nÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•·Ü?ü$6šóI¬aÈ[™g|Wv éÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•a’?èQxŠ§BO“òaÈq¥qùÈ$ÀúÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•Ê ?&z¥ÕÂ-H¸(aÈ|Íº¯& ÎšOÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç†•S'?g6ð6sšÐN“½aÈ‚½Ýx¡~|ô›È2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•_Ö?Ò‘ºga1ÅE¿ìaÈ¯ç[¶ @RÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•‰¯ ?[ñ„ºK÷OŠÉaÈ¿¿pWÔÔ,›È2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•²?‚D{ÏºîŸA˜àaÈÃ ÏÝÀY6 ½·È2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•1Ñ?ÞÆ‰ZÊKˆM‹ïaÈÓƒCÙØ ~È2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•‹c?óÏïEóDiMœÜaÉ RÒüòOnE‚È2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•Á¥?*²{bëÐK’PaÉÝVÂ d¿È2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•î ?7nƒ}ß¤D¦raÉ@ºNn]³xÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•îê?JËÔ ß‹LƒÓaÉl1UB…“V¦È2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•õ ?=„„¬,ÐIšoaÉlIñrû{$ÁÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•ÆU?’yÖïüXEaÉqfSã© ã’pÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•ûó?ÔöíŠ:É)@ƒ?aÉu=¾k0ôCÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•6Þ?tËÔ a§EÁaÉbâ~x GÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•’% ?FìîtLyÉI‚’aÉ±f7ˆàþ KåÈ2Ç‡•È2Ç‡•Ëa0?C*1 Ré"G¦OaÇp]‡t,“l î0»Áš•MPýš•ÎJ0<?`’sFr"‡JŽÇaÆ‡†•ˆö—#û"0J00?„9Æû7-K©~aÇO§˜ 7æ6Öµì½•ÛBJ00?4|rYYDžaÉ båžjEõ4Ý×ˆÄ•ÃÄíÃ•QJ00?B¢nµPŒC¨ aÇ©UñÆí©ÊS›‹üÄê• ÎÄê•s}J00?¢Ã¢Ðœ-/I¬#aÇ_EÀù´" ‘ãÑþ –ímþ –~íJ00?À‹™‡UJ¶–aÅÌ³kà* Page 45 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeais it was used for the storage of lumber prior to that and I think that there is a serious difference between the storage of lumber and the storage of machinery. MR. CHAIRMAN: Did you ask the Town Attorney at the time when they were asked to change from LI to HB, why they chose HB? CARMELA BORELLI: No, I don't know whether you have, I don't know whether this is an accurate statement in terms of that. It was suggested to them by I think they said Mr. Arnoff originally. I don't know if that's the case. However, I do know that I came across today in going through the stacks of papers that I have out of the files of the various departments here at Town Hall that there were a series of supposed conferences. I think at that particular time just prior to the zone change Mr. Gasser was represented by Wickham, Wickham & Bressler. And there is various communications which I would be glad to dig out tomorrow and send to you where Dan Ross, Harvey Arnoff and other agencies, I believe, were talking about they want to have a conference they should have a conference -they want a conference. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: We have all that in the file already. CARMELA BORELLI: OK. And what happened was it was just not coming to fruition, and Harvey Arnoff (as Town Attorney) said in the letter of which you have a copy there was an exhibit in the prior brief that I gave you, it's time to get off the stick, guys, you know you've got to do something here I can't and, I believe, he says, I can't sit back and let this illegality continue and they had to go for the zone change. Page 46 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals The fence may be required by the government for the security of the weapons. I don't know if that is the case. There is nothing in the record so far that confirms that they are mandated to do that. However, the requirements for "that the government may have the security purposes" do not preempt the Town's authority with regard to zoning. You have the ultimate authority with regard to the zoning requirements and the Zoning Code stipulates that. I don't care what the Federal Government says that have to do there. The Zoning Code takes precedence over that. Mr. Gasser in part of his reply just now said, they have live weapons there. It's the first time I ever heard that. We've been told everything doesn't work. MR. CHAIRMAN: Shells. Shells. CARMELA BORELLI: Well, they still have a potential problem there if they have live weapons there. MR. GASSER: Licensed weapons. CARMELA BORELLI: I'm sorry? MR. GASSER: Licensed weapons. CARMELA BORELLI: OK, I take it back. The tower has been said to serve two functions - that is, a memorial function and historical artifact. Last hearing, we were told that it was - I refer to it in my brief as a gun tower and I was called to task for that for referring to it as a gun tower. It was not a gun tower. And I said that my recollection was that somewhere it was said that that's exactly what it was. Well, I brought another brief tonight which addresses that and a couple of other issues, and in there is a copy~ of a letter written by Mr. Gasser's attorney. I think it was in 1988, Page 47 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of Fehruary 1, 199§ Southo]d Town Board of Appeals which specifically states that this was a tower that was in Mattituck, and it was a gun emplacement tower. The name that has been given here and to which the speaker in support has said that it is a POW-MIA Tower, my feeling is that it is an acronym that has been given to it to give it some appeal to this Board and to the public. By calling it that, who could object? I mean, what am I objecting to? rOWs, MIAs or the honoring of those people? No, I'm not objecting to that, and I think that's why the name has been given to this tower. MR. CHAIRMAN: I don't particularly care what it's "called." I mean. Do you have any specific objection to it in its present place? CARMELA BORELLI: Yes. I have an objection to granting the variances to it because he also in this brief you will see that in support of this request for the variance that it doesn't meet the side and rear yard setbacks. The applicant has stated in the application that this is because the Planning Board is requesting them to supply parking spaces. One of the exhibits attached to this new brief that I have handed you tonight contained in that same letter from the earlier attorney which is 1988, I believe, that letter contains the statement that there are 15 parking spaces available at the site all the time. Aetually it's in my prior brief. It's an exhibit in my prior brief. And that attorney in 1988 says that there are 15 parking spaces available all the time on site, and that was used as support for whatever they were asking for at that particular time. Now, we're being told you have to give them a Page 48 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1995 rear and side yard setback variance because the Planning Board is requiring that they supply parking spaces. I mean we, we just have this consistent and constant changing of where you stand and what you're saying. It all depends on what you're asking them, what the Planning Board is asking them and what comes up. So the story changes. The mitigation changes. Everything changes. We've been told here tonight that our suggestion that they put Please, I don't want to up a building would require more variances. do this again. We've also been told that they will be able to display less artifacts. Well, that might be the case but they're not supposed to be displaying artifacts the way they're displaying them now. always been in violation of the code. Mr. Blass has also said that they have environmental requirements based on your request. They've mitigated the One of the new exhibits that I have attached tonight is a memo that was written by the Chairman of the Planning Board in 1992 to the Town Clerk with regard to the request for a zone change. And he was referring to the environmental consultant's report at that time. And he says it here, "the Planning Board has reviewed the environmental consultant's draft recommendations for this project. The environmental review is too narrowly focused on tile subject property alone. The review should have incorporated a wider area, namely the surrounding business district because the proposed change of zone will have an effect on that area." That's exactly the point in my first brief when I said that giving them a negative dec. under SEQRA Page 49 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals was inappropriate here. We can't just deal with the oil that comes out of the tanks. We have to deal with the whole context of what this is and what it stands for. My client handed me tonight some pictures that were taken the 31st. These pictures show you what people see. OK, and some of them were taken just this past Sunday. You can see here that this tank actually extends over the fence. The fence which is illegal, the tank extends over. You can see where people see as they walk down this street, and this is the way you have to view this site in terms of SEQRA requirements. Now, Diane was telling me that she tried to capture but without a moving camera she couldn't. There was actually a tank being driven up and down the yard on Sunday. And she said that it went on for close to two hours. Now, we've been told tonight that the railroad passes by and makes a similar noise. Even if the noise is similar the train goes by, and it's gone. That tank went up and down making noise for two hours. In addition to which about that tower, Diane tells me that in addition to just the tower, people go up on the tower. They stand on the tower. They walk around the tower. And on top of the tanks. Not on the tower, on the tanks. So, we have this constant viewing of what is not supposed to be there. I mean it's just- it's illegal. MR. CHAIRMAN: Can I just ask a question before you go on? MS. BORELLI: Of course. MR. CHAIRMAN: I don't mean to, first I shouldn't be calling you by your first name, I apologize. Page 50 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Assuming that we had inside storage and assuming that it necessitated them to move these vehicles on a bimonthly basis or once a month or whatever to keep them lubricated, I know we've referred this, we've talked about this area before, what can we do on that portion of Mr. & Mrs. Amaretti's porch, as they look out toward this, notwithstanding the noise issue of the running of the tank. What can we do concretely that would make your clients happy? It goes back to the wish list I asked you, so that they would be shielded. And I'm not talking about the slating of the fence because when the culmination of the decision out of this hearing - the fence will be slatted. I do concur with Mr. Gasser, it should not be slatted all the way to the end so that he has visibility when he pulls out and I'm talking 6 feet. Tell me what we can do at this particular point, so as Mr. & Mrs. Amaretti will never see unless of course the plants die, alright, these particular bushes, whatever has to be built, you know, we can start at six feet. We can start at eight feet. Whatever it is and we can construct something then. We can put this embodied in a decision, alright, because I'm saying to you that this is not going to go away. We are not going to stop these people from the operation of these tanks. If there inside or outside, they're going to have to operate the tanks. There are six tanks there, or six vehicles there, no~ road vehicles but six vehicles there that have to be operated so that they don't become fused, alright. So, that's something you've got to talk to us about before we finish this hearing. Page 51 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals CARMELA BORELLI: My response to the prior request about a wish list was that we didn't have a wish list. I mean, it's unfortunate to tell you that we're just totally disillusioned with the Town of Southold. MR. CHAIRMAN: tell me what we I understand, so tell me now, forget the wish list, can put there? What we can have professionally done, alright, so that these people do not have to see people walking on tanks or whatever the ease might be. CARMELA BORELLI: Put them inside a building. MR. CHAIRMAN: But, they still have to be moved. Ok. That's the issue. They're going to be moved outside. You cannot operate a diesel tank inside a building. They're going to be asphyxiated. CARMELA BORELLI, ESQ.: They have a back part of their property that fronts on Love Lane MRS. AMARETTh On (County Road) 48. MR. CHAIRMAN: Even if the nature of this Board was to tell them that they are not permitted to operate a tank outside a building, by the time they call the police, the police came down, cited Mr. Gasser for it, which is not going to be the case, alright, because we understand they have to operate a tank outside a building, alright And I'm talking about the moving of the tank alright, which is what I think Mrs. Amaretti was referring to this Sunday. Tell me what you want us to put embodied in a decision so as to shield their property from the Amaretti property? CARMELA BORELLI: You know, I get the feeling that I'm being asked a question that the witness on the stand is asked by the Page 52 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals attorney who says, when did you stop beating your wife, which means that just by answering that question you have to admit that you were beating your wife. you're asking me now, you're list. And what I'm saying --- So, by asking me the question that really asking me to give you a wish MR. CHAIRMAN: No, trees you want. CARMELA BORELLI: I'm just asking you to tell me what kind of Well, I'm saying my answer to that is, make them comply with the zoning code. Put it inside a building and make them meet the setback and the rear yard requirements because that's what they're supposed to do. That's what they should of done since 1980 and that's what I'm asking. Anything other .than that I am conceding that we think that something else is less reprehensible than what it is now. And I can't do that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. I understand. I'm sorry, I hope that didn't upset you. CARMELA BORELLI: Oh, no. It didn't upset me. Let me see if I have anything else to make comment on. I think, I took a quick glance at Mr. Blass's memo. He contends in Point I and Point II that the applicant meets the practical difficulties test which is the legal test for getting an area variance. I think that that is, you can't meet the practical difficulties test by producing just this written report and by producing your application which says, it's difficult for me to do this. You have to have some other supporting documentation that isn't a self-serving statement or the fact that the Planning Board is Page 53 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1995 making me do this and therefore it's a practical difficulty. So, do not believe that they have met either of those tests. The 267B or the practical difficulties test. I also, there is a contention in here which I'm not, on page 7, that we're supposed to give them some greater leniency here because they're a Not-For Profit Organization but everybody has to comply with the ]aw no matter whether you do it for money or you don't do it for money. And despite what this says in here they have never, ever met the zoning requirements, no matter what it was. That's it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. CARMELA BORELLI: Thank you. GREG BLASS: Just briefly, Board Members. I wanted to say that counsel for the objectant and I read the zoning code differently. The HB Zone does provide in Section 100-91 of the Code that subject to site plan approval by the Planning Board, one use that is permitted in the HB Zone is libraries or museums. We comply w~th the zoning code not only by the use that the code lists but also by the variances that can be granted from the Board that has primary jurisdiction over interpreting the code. And that's this Board. So to say that you either comply with the zoning code or you don't ~ why is there a Zoning Board of Appeals? That's why we're here. We think that the economics and a neighborhood considerations that come to play are very important. We would also point out not only did the objectant move in six years after this operation was well under way, but they actually took trees down, a number of them. l~ine trees - that were between the Page 54 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals properties. And further we have offered, we reiterate the offer that we will plant a line of either hemlocks or whatever preferable evergreen, screening, shrub is requested between the properties at our cost and expense to deal with the issue of what they see, but the fact is that HB, but for outside display, does permit the museum operation and we are asking that the variance be granted for the outdoor display that we seek. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. How high is the existing building? Do you have any idea? MR. BLASS: How high? I think it's 25 feet. I hate to, I'll have to double check it with my client. It's pretty high. 20. 25. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, it's pretty high. It's about 2-1/2 story, well to the peak. They do a different thing in the State Construction Code. They take the mean roof line, actually you have two roof lines cause it's a double fan that comes down, but they take that upper roof line and they bisect it halfway and they said, that's the actual height. So it's, even though you may be saying it's ( ), it's really half of that amount so, it's probably 22, 23, maybe. I don't have anything else at this point. I just do want to mention. Do you have something? MEMBER VILLA: Yes, I have a question. It's been alluded that the equipment and machinery has to be moved. Now, there are plenty of places that have standby generators that have to be operated periodically to be sure that they're in operating condition. They don't operate them for two hours. What would be your minimum of time that you would have to run some. You know, if you're there Page 55 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals on display and you're running it around just to show people how it moves, that's one thing but that .... MR. GASSER: We cycle. We had an event that day. The club made a reservation for the Military Club to come in and to tour the facility and we sporadically ran each vehicle throughout the day. I think Mr. Goehringer might even have witnessed it. Ok. They weren't running continuously for two hours. What you saw is start, stop, start, stop, start, stop, start, stop, that was the operation. With various vehicles. MR. CHAIRMAN: Would you normally do that every Sunday? MR. GASSER: I wish I could. No, I can't. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, Sir, would you just state your name for the record please. Thank you. STEVE FOX: You have to excuse my voice - I don't know what's going on here but it's not working properly. My name is Steve Fox. I'm an unpaid volunteer at the museum. After hearing the profit line, I know I will continue to be that way for the indefinite future - which is fine. I didn't ask for a profit. I'd just like to reemphasize that the safety record of the museum is impeccable. We have never had an incident of any negative consequence. We've never had a consequence. As a direct result of the security measures that have been taken, and we continue to enforce those on a regular basis. I myself and one of the armed guards at the museum, licensed. I'm also a former police officer, although currently I'm a public school teacher and have been for the last 25 years and even in that regard I have to comment Page 56 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southo]d Town Board of Appeals again on how the public reacts to this type of a tourist attraction. I mean, the reactions are just incredible. I'm speaking on a very positive note. I have yet to meet anyone who is, I'm also one of the guides in the museum. I have yet to meet anyone of any age, of any gender who is not pleased or impressed to some degree with what we have. It is a unique organization. It is a unique site. We had an opportunity this past summer to travel to Anniston, Alabama, to make a trip to require to pick up some tank parts that the army had allowed us to retrieve and we were a subject of endless questions by all the people that we ran into down there. They were just impressed to the ends degree with what we had to tell them as to what we had to offer. They just couldn't believe what we have and that we have it opened to the public and that we are a live museum. I emphasize live. I mean that's tantamount to the explanation to the running of vehicles and the licensed material which is on the property. Again, it's something which is just not comparable to anything, anywhere, and I think you would have to go to a federal facility to find something of comparable value or comparable interest and to even question its validness for being here or to have any concerns regarding safety which I can understand some people have. We, I believe it's satisfied. We have the safety well in check. The ultimate concern seems to be, why is it there. It's there to train people, to inform them, that we are an information center. We are a historical site. We have an opportunity to inform and to correct people's views and we're not there to really tell them a story. We just present them the facts. I can't help but think about Page 57 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals the Annulagay controversy that's going on now with Smithsonian where there was a concern that there was an over emphasis perhaps on the original exhibit that they were portraying the Japanese as the victims or perhaps others wanted to portray the Americans as the victims and now they've concluded, well we're neutral. Well, we're just going to present the facts and let the people make their own conclusion and basically that's what we do. We are not there to glorify, we're not there to moralize. We are there as a service to the public to provide them with information that they will seek or wish to know. And I think we do a pretty good job and it would really be a travesty on so many levels to jeopardize that in anyway. So I hope you will consider that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. (Secretary changed tapes.) MR. CHAIRMAN: Ok. We're ready. CARMELA BORELLI, ESQ.: I just want to remedy any impression that you or the applicant may have gotten with regard to my characterization of the items at this museum. I am a museum goer. My minor in college was history. I probably read every book about every major military leader there is out there because their logistics and their strategizing interests me only may be because of the profession that I've chosen, but I don't want you to get the impression that I and/or my clients are opposed to a museum and/or a museum that has weapons from the government from various armed conflicts. I would like to erase that from your minds if that is the case because that's not where we're coming from. Page 58 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: I am led to believe that there are no weapons there other than the weapons that are licensed, OK. Everything that is there has been disarmed or else they would not be permitted. So, I do understand with what you're saying. I'm just saying to you that on the surface they look like weapons but they're really not weapons because they've been disarmed. CARMELA BORELLI: Well, we're, we're talking semantics here as to how you categorize it based upon its prior - it's irrelevant. What I am saying is that is not our objection. I mean, it's neither mine nor my clients. We don't object and I would like to make the record clear on that. That's not where we're coming from. We're ~a~king strictly from a zoning aspect with regard to compliance here in the town and how we object. That's all. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. MEMBER WILTON: I think we had asked for a shopping list to try and get a better understanding ourselves to find out what your clients real concerns are. Are they concerned about noise, are they concerned about appearance, features? CARMELA BORELLI: Well, smell, you know, what are the major ill I mean they'll probably named some of them. I moan, it's noise that they object to. MEMBER WILTON: Is one more important than the ether? CARMELA BORELLI: It's visual. It's visual what they object to in terms of that it. It permeates the atmosphere, permeates their piece of property. It permeates that part of Love Lane. that's what we're talking about. We're, we're talking about this, this outside display Page 59 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals of this equipment and the noise it creates. In the past, I don't think it's happened recently but in the past they even had trespasses on their property from people who didn't want to pay to get into the museum so they would come around on their property to look through the fence. And I think that has ended, we don't have that anymore, but it's all those things put together. MEMBER WILTON: So, everything you don't like? CARMELA BORELLI: That's about it. MEMBER WILTON: That was the conclusion I was drawing. CARMELA BORELLI: That's about it. MRS. AMARETTI: There's also you know limit to what comes on the property. Every time we turn around - if you look back at some the pictures, there are small tanks there that you can barely see. Even with the barbed wire. With everything new that's coming in, it is bigger and higher to the point, whatever they're called, that the ends are bigger, there's a helicopter, every time we turn around and look out, it's something bigger, something more. There's more than six tanks in front of us right now, if you go look tonight. Look in the picture you can see more than six tanks. But there's no limit. Every time you turn around and there's never going to be a limit because there's always something bigger that he can put up there. And you see what we're looking at from our door. MR. CHAIRMAN: Just for the record, for the person taking this down, that was Mrs. Amaretti. Thank you, Diane. Lee's see. I have one more question before we close the hearing. Bill (Gasser), we've talked about alternate sites. We talked about the possibility Page 60 - Hearing T~anscript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals of moving over to the property next door regardless if it's conforming and non-conforming. You've explained to me the problems over there. I realize that one of Mr. Blass' jobs is as a very astute County Legislator have you approached anybody in the County at anytime for an alternate location? Mr. GASSER: Yes, many, many times. MR. CHAIRMAN: And what's developed there? Mr. GASSER: It's something similar to what Engine 39 is running into. We're running into a budgetary thing where there is no lending port in considering the new administration in the State it would look very chancey if anything could ever happen like that. I'd be thrilled. I'd be thrilled if somebody wants to find a new home for me that's suitable for us to move into, that would not cost us a fortune in conversions and transportation, I'd be all ears. It just doesn't seem like it's going to happen. CARMELA BORELLI: Would the Chairman enlighten us as to what discussion and what piece of property you're talking about? MR. CHAIRMAN: I had asked Bill in the past about the possibility of procuring the piece to the east between Mr. Brown's prior, it's still called K.G. Brown's but I think somebody else is buying the piece, and there's a piece in between. CARMELA BORELLI: The other side of the building? MR. CHAIRMAN: The other side of the building, yes, Ok. CARMELA BORELLI: Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, hearing no further comment, we thank you all for your courtesy. We are, I am, and I have to admit to you and Page 61 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of February 1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals I'll go back to the last comments that I had was the prior, prior, prior, prior Town Attorney, who was a gentleman who was just an unbelievable individual Robert Tasker, a~d he said, "Jerry, you don't wa~t to leave the person with the intention that you ar~ goin~ to make a negative or positive decision." But I ehlnk it goes back ssrmmetriomllsr, Ms. Borelli, when I told you that we're going to t~ a~ld put thi~ thinf to bed. You may not construe it to be to bed, but we're ~oi]lg to tr~r to put it to bed, al_wight. I hope that whatever comes out of this decision, that it is put to bed, but it may not be, so, that's ail I can tell you at this point. As for the Armoured FouJmdation, you kJ/ow, I understand the situation that you isdies and gentlemen are in ~nd I'm going to do the best I can in my particular position here. And we are a~ interesting group of individuals. Most people that have spent time on this Board and have just been - the dedication is just unbelievablef Amd we'll do the best we can. That's all I can tell you. Thank you again. tIearing no further comment I'll make a motion closing the hearing reservln~ decision until later~ M]~iNiB ER WILTON: MR. CHAIRMAN: BOARD ~VtEMBERS: I'll second that. All Lu favor? (All Ayes). Taken from audio tape recording of the hearings. Lucia Farreli, Typist RECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CT.F~:kK DATE ~ [q~/q5 HOUR