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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-01/04/1995 HEARING PUBLIC HEARINGS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD January 4, 1995 (7:30 P.M. Hearings Commenced) P R E S E N T: HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER Chairman SERGE J. DOYEN, Member JAMES DINIZIO, JR. Member ROBERT A. VILLA, Member RICHARD C. WILTON, Member LINDA KOWALSKI, Clerk-Assistant to Board Page 2 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals INDEX APPLN.# APPLICANT PAGES 4288 4289 4290 4287 4286 4293 ,1292 4291 4260 - 4262 JACK AND CHRIS GISMONDI WILLIAM AND VERA SMITH WAREX TERMINALS CORP. NORTH FORK BEACH CONDOMINIONS JOEL AND MARGARET LAUBER EDWARD J. MUNSON JAY AND MARY THOMSON JAMES M. AND ELAINE O'KEEFE WILLIAM F. GASSER 3- 7 7- 8 8-13 13-15 15-24 24-25 25-31 31-54 54-91 Page 3 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:30 P.M. Application No. 4288 - JACK AND CHRIS GISMONDI MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for a Variance under Article III, Section 100-30A(1) for approval of the location of an accessory swi~nming pool, above ground as built, in a yard area other than the required rear yard, at premises known as 5655 Indian Neck Road, Peconic; Parcel ID 1000-86-6-14. (Setback from property lines, when located in a yard area other than a rear yard, shall be determined by the Board of Appeals), and we have a copy of the Suffelk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who would like to be heard? JACK GISMONDI: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: How are you tonight Sir? Would you state your name for the record. JACK GISMONDI: My name is Jack Gismondi. MR. CHAIRMAN: Can you tell us why you choose to put the pool in a side yard and not in a rear yard? JACK GISMONDI: Well, I was told by the Building Department that my property is considered to have three front yards and the one side thai would abide being a rear yard which is actually the northerly side of the property 1 have only 15 feet of property. What I would consider the rear of my property (someone sneezed and coughed) would be proper of wooded property. What I would consider to be my southerly side of my house as a right-of-way perhaps 75 feet from the house and I have a 15 foot bumper of wooded area which througl~out the spring and summer is ( ). It is one of the few Page 4 - ftearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals that southerly side of the house, is the only side of the house in which I get a heck of a lot of sun. MR. CHAIRMAN: I see. I didn't realize that the lot was as deep as it was. I didn't look at the survey and I was over there and it is a relatively deep piece of property. Do any of tile Board Members have any questions of this applicant? BOB VILLA: How travelled is that right-of-way to ti~e east of your property? JACK GISMONDI: It is exclusive driveway from Mrs. Walker. It is sometimes used without her perlnission by others but it is exclusively her right-of-way. BOB VILLA: There's very little traffic on it? JACK GISMONDI: Yes. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I, I just want to mention this. Two front yards there too. So, he doesn't really have a rear yard. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any type of screening that you're anticipating putting around the pool? Are you planning on planting any greenery or any, any type of minor fencing? JACK GISMONDi: This time of year of course it is not screened very well. I did in the summer, in the spring and in the fall, the, as I said the 10-15 feet of woods that is approximating that side of the house, in front of the house is quite big. The pool itself is something of an expense. It was something of a, something that I ventured into without realizing how far I was going to get involved. I have put a fence around the ladder itself ~vhieh was required by the Building Department. We put a couple hundred bucks into the Page 5 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals application and what not. Its something I'd like to do one of these days. I'd also like to put a new roof on my house. I don't know, Its just, its something, yes, I would like to do it. I would not, my wife is terribly fond of an, of the above ground pool. ( ) if I have one. I'm not terribly fond of it myself. I could very well of done without it and a, I imagine that after a few years its going to rust away and perhaps ..... MR. CHAIRMAN: Never to return. JACK GRISMONDI: Business will be better and 1'11 have a nice inground pool that I would like to of had in the first place. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, I thank you sir. JACK GISMONDI: I thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Any other comments? BOB VILLA: Just a question that he brought up the fact that he would like to have an inground pool and you put it in your back yard? JACK GISMONDI: If, if it would be that I have one. Yes. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: He doesn't have a back yard though. That's the problem. It's two front yards. BOB VILLA: Well, to the rear of the house that's wilere you ( ). You've got probably 300 feet behind the house. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK, Yeah. He would still need a various though for that. Page 6 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOB VILLA: Yeah, but it wouldn't be as noticeable from the main road. I mean the other, the other front yards are on right-of-ways which are very seldom used. Indian Neck is your main road. So, it would ( ) to have it behind the house or to the north of the house. Right? JIM DINIZIO: Right. JACK GISMONDI: That particular part oF my property is heavily wooded and the trees are well in excess of 100 feet and it would be, as I said, one, perhaps a, I guess if my plmnbing business prosperous somewhat better that would be the ideal place to put it with a large deck and do so under the auspices of the Building, Zoning Board. But, part of the property tree expert come in, beyond my means. as a temporary solution, yes, this was the one that permitted it without haviug to have the clear the property and it would be a little The trees are very large and it would be a considerable expense as would be clearing the property in any shape or form. So, this is something, yes, I probably have got the smallest house on Indian Neck Lane. I've got a, it was abandoned for quite a few years. I've done quite a bit of work to improve it and things take time. This is a start. MR. CIIAIRMAN: No question about it. OK, I'm going to make a motion that we reserve decision until later on tonight. I'll offer that as a resolution, gentlemen. JIM DINIZIO: Second it. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. Page 7 -tlearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Beard of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: tomorrow morning, or you're welcome to stay. to be. I know that you late we're going tomor~'ow~ so, JACK GISMONDI: MR. CHAIRMAN: We will kick it around so you're welco~ne to call us We have no ideal how will not be swimming 7:42 P.M. MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for a Variance under Article IliA, Section 100-30A.3 based upon the October 28, 1994, Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector, for permission to construct addition to existing building which will have an insufficient front yard setback. 980 Bayview Aveuue, Mattituck; Parcel ID 1000-106-10-17. I have a copy of a survey indicating the approximate placement of the house on the property and the notice of this request basically reducing the front yard to approximately 33 feet. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Smith would you like to be heard? Would you like to say anything for tile record? Application No. 4289 WILLIAM AND VERA SMITtt WILLIAM SMITH: for this. MR. CHAIRMAN: WILLIAM SMITH: MR. CHAIRMAN Smith? Nothing more to say than I'd like to be approved OK. It's the only way I can go. Is there anybody have any questions of Mr. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Page 8 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, ]995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOB VILLA: Is this one story? WILLIAM SMITH: Yeah, its one story. BOB VILLA: That's all. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. Is there speak in favor of this application? anybody else that would like to Anybody like to speak against the application. Boy! We're getting, we're doing alright here Bill. WILLIAM SMITH: Not bad today. MR. CHAII{MAN: I'll make a, I'll offer resolution approving as applied for. JIM DINIZ[O: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. MR. CHAIRMAN: Have a lovely evening. WILLIAM SMITH: OK, thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: You're welcome. 7:44 P.M. Application No. 4290 - WAREX TERMINALS CORP. MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for a Variance under Article X, Section 100-101C, ref. 100-33, for pemnission to locate a canopy structure over existing gasoline pumps in an area other than the rear yard. Property: 9945 Main Road, Mattituck; Parcel ID 1000-142-1-27. I have a copy of the site plan dated 9/22/94 indicating an approximate canopy over the two existing pump islands of approximately 43 x 29 and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Who would like to be heard? Page 9 - Ilearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals JERRY KNIGHT: Good evening, my name is Jerry Knight, Marketing Manager with Warex Terminals who are requesting permission for the canopy over the pump islands at the service station, primarily for the couvenience of the customers in crummy weather and also for the employees that do work there also. This station is self-service and also full-service. MR. CHAIRMAN: Over the years we have heard all kinds of reasons for canopies. Some of them were to support repression systems which a, I don't know, we run the gambit on the wi~ole issue, alright? JERRY KNIGHT: Right. MR. CHAIRMAN: I, of course utilize the station living in Mattituck and at the same time spent some time looking at it. It, its certainly a, there are pros and cons about canopies. There's no question about it. You can't say that this isn't an urban area because it certainly is in reference to being downtown. It does not appear to be a terribly blatant one in reference to size. Can you tell us the approximate height of it? JERRY KNIGHT: 14 feet 6 inches. You need it high enough for a trunk. MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure and we'll see what the Board has to say. Does anybody have any questions of this nice gentleman? BOB VILLA: Well, it's going to be lighted underneath the canopy. Is all that directly down with no lateral. JERRY KNIGHT: Yes, it will be directly down. MR. CHAIRMAN: That was one of the problems that we had had with a, it appears that tt~e engineers that develop these have a tendency Page 10 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southo]d Town Board of Appeals to over light them and we've experienced that in other areas of the town. JERRY KNIGHT. With LILCO rates we will have to over light because they're going to get quite costly. MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm sure it does. JERRY KNIGHT: The electric rates that run in service stations. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. BOB VILLA: Now, always when your service stations close will the lights be ..... . JERRY KNIGHT: They'll be off. BO}{ VILLA: Just have security lighting at that point? JERRY KNIGHT: Yes, there will just be you know, the building would be slightly lit up and that would basically be it. There wouldn't be any lighting other than that. MR. CHAIRMAN: From a sales point of view, do you, you actually find it more beneficial in the long run for .... JERRY KNIGHT: Statistics, if you can believe the statistics. They say that you would increase some, some volume about 15%. Whether that's true Statistically point in for them. on them or not I don't know. I guess it would depend. they claim that but primarily for the customers stand a self-service situation it's really more of a convenience I would, you'd have the rain coming at least down entirely and also being that half of the station is full-served for the people that do work there, they don't have to get soaked every time a car comes in ( ). So, you know, sales are important, but Page ]1 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 $outhold Town Board of Appeals I think for the people that more important for that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure, gentleman? do work there, do shop work there, is Alright, any other qnestions of this No, this is strictly above ground. Its a self-supporting structure and it can be put in over the top of the existiug tanks as they stand now so on and so forth. JERRY KNIGllT: MR. CHAIRMAN: JERRY KNIGtlT: rules. Well the tanks are actually on the other corner. Yes, there over oil the other corner. They're up to Suffolk County Health Department nature. JERRY KNIGHT: MR. CHAIRMAN: JIM DIN1ZIO: What would be the distance from the property line? JERRY KNIGHT: 43 feet. JIM DINIZIO: From the front road. JERRY KNIGHT: From the back area its 22 feet. The front yard is 11.5. JIM DINIZIO: 11.5 to the rear property line? JERRY KNIGHT: To the rear property line. I'd just like to point out that this is, there are no other alterations being done on the property except putting the structural canopy over what's existing there presently which are the two pump is]ands. MI{. CHAIRMAN: Well, all of the pumps have been serviced. All the tanks have been serviced within this facility already. You're not extricating any tanks, putting any new tanks or anything of that Page 12 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMANL: Not that it makes any difference really, because whatever you have to do you have to do. That's the issue. MEMBER WILTON: Are there extinguishing systems built into this canopy in case of fire? JERRY KNIGHT: Yes, as required by the Town of Southold. It has to be as ( ). Suffolk County also has laws, Nassau too, where they have an extinguishing system in the canopy itself to extinguish out any fires. Nassau is even worse in a sense, not worse, but they require closed circuit TVs. Mt{. CHAIRMAN: Oh really. JERRY KNIGHT: Yeah, which I think is not necessary. MEMBER WILTON: On the face of the canopies there'll be no writing then. Its all going to be downward. It's all going to be underneath the cabinets itself. JERRY KNIGHT: of the cabinet. MR. CHAIRMAN: edge, on a slant? JERRY KNIGHT: MR. CHAIRMAN: Everything is serviced now, underneath the facia Is tile edge of the canopy like a mansard type of Yes, it's approximately 2 foot 6 inches in depth. Alright. Do you want to kick this around later gentlemen or what do you want to do? JIM D1NIZIO: Well, I ( ) saw so many pictures. Remember the last time? (jokingly) MR. CHAIRMAN: We went through a approximately a 4 hour Suffolk County, Nassau County tour. I assure you we've doue the gamut on Page 13 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals canopies. We've run offer the resolution? MEMBER VILLA: MEMBER DINIZIO: MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBERS: Aye. 7:55 P.M. the gamut on this rather. I'll make the motion. I'll second it. Who would like to Alright, I have a motion and a second, all in favor? Application No. 4287 NORTH FORK BEACH CONDOMINIUMS Mr. Chair~nan: (Carryover from December 7, 1994). Request to install swimming pool in an area other than the required rear yard at 52325 C.R. 48, Southold; 1000-135.1-1-43. Is there someone here? How are you tonight, Sir? You did you test the holes and all of that stuff? MR. CALLAHAN MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. CALLAHAN: MR. CHAIRMAN Yes. You didn't find any a, no pools up there? No pools up there. So where in the realm basically of the new plan that you've given us. Good, excellent. Anybody have any questions of Mr. Callahan? MEMBER VILLA: Now, it's right behind that concrete pad. MR. CALLAflAN: Right. MR. CHAIRMAN: I, 1 think it's a great location. I really do. MR. CALLAHAN: It, it worked out very well with that suggestion. Page 14 - Hearing'~i~ranscript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Any specific restrictions that you want to place on it so as not to be enclosed? What did you anticipate in reference to screening between there and the pad, anything? MR. CALLAHAN: Well the 4 foot fence that we're going to put around it will have a slack to it and then there'l] be some trees or shrubs around on along the edge also because there are some that we have to move now. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. MR. CALLAHAN: So we will be moving in. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alrigilt. Do you want anything else? I think it's back far enough that we don't have to put any barrier to be honest with you. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, it's more in the middle too. You're not coming around that bend. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, the concern I have, if the barrier is too close to the fence people can hop on the barrier and jump over the fence and that's the other problem that we have, unless you want to put a barrier in front of the cement slab. MEMBER DINIZIO: MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBER WILTON: MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBER WILTON: MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBER DINIZIO: MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, I, not me. Do you have a question Sir? No. Anybody else here that wants to discuss this? Make a motion to approve it as applied for. Alright. Second. All in favor? Page 15 - Hearing~l~ranscript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBERS: Aye. 7:58 P.M. Application No. 4286 - JOEL AND MARGARET LAUBER MR. CHAIRMAN: (Carryover from December 7, 1994). Request for Special Exception to establish Winery Use for the sale of wine produced from grapes grown on the existing Vineyard where the proposed Winery is to be located. Location of Property: Consisting of a minimum of ten (10) acres of land referred to as 45470 Main Road, Southold; Parcel No. 1000-75-6-9.7 and 9.6. Expected resolution of no-jurisdiction as per new Local Law #26 - 1994. We will ask Mr. Lauber if he would like to say something for the record? JOEL LAUBER: Nothing more than what I said the last time. You asked me if I would make an attempt to reconfigure the property a the parking space is further away from the We've done that and you have that information. Right. That's the area that you have penned in little bit so that adjacent property. MR. CHAIRMAN: yellow? JOEL LAUBER: MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, see, it moves it about 50 feet further away. Alright. Could I just ask you to come up here one second. If you were standing, I assume this is the road coming in, this is the building, where approximately is north on this? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yeah, we just need to have that. JOEL LAUBER: Where's north? Page 16 - Hearing~ranscript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: this. Just mark it on there please. MR. CHAIRMAN: JOEL LAUBER: be here. Yeah, if you could mark it on Something like this? Yeah, the road, the highway is here, they would BOB VILLA: Where's those properties a .... JOEL LAUBER: Right here. The property in question is not next to it, it's the next one. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. JOEL LAUBER: This is our property, this is Amando, I believe and his would be the next one. That's the one ..... MR. CHAIRMAN: Who owns this one? JOEL LAUBER: The one right next to Amando's property? MR. CHAIRMAN: This is Amando and this is the gentleman that I JOEL LAUBER: I think that's the guy. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. BOB VILLA: OK, so where did you park the vehicles? JOEL LAUBER: Well, the parking, it used to be pretty much over here and now on the other side of the road. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, Lets, lets look at this bigger map. Will be with you in one second. (All parties checking map). JOEL LAUBER: The parking was on this side with the stalls facing this way. Now we've taken, but Fristachi owns a natural pond road that comes in and we've moved the parking lot to the other side. BOB VILLA: The road comes in something like that? Page 17 - tlearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals JOEL LAUBER: The road comes in like this, It's on the site map which I have if you don't have one which has the full plan. But, what we did was by flipping the stalls you pick up about 50 feet in distance because you're moving 22 feet across the road itself and that 22 feet ..... BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Can you hear OK back there? MR. CHAIRMAN: He probably could not. JOEL LAUBER: So we moved it roughly 50 feet from where it was, away from the adjoining property. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. BOB VILLA: What were you going to do about screening? JOEL LAUBER: Well the screening was in there originally. We, we wouldn't change that. We wouldn't change any of it. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK, yet, you moved it over 50 feet over to this side? MR. CHAIRMAN: No, it's over this way. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Its in here now? JOEL LAUBER: Its on the other side. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: You mean here, this side when you say other side? JOEL LAUBER: Yeah, and that, that conforms, conforms to what, the Planning Department really helped us do that because they were very happy about the fact that you could move it so that people who then get out of their cars would not cross the parking lot itself and they were delighted at that. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: It got moved to the north 50 feet? Page 18 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Well no, it's actually south, south east. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: OK. MI{. CHAIRMAN: Good, wonderful. OK, we thank you for that. Is there anything else you wanted to add, Mr. Lauber? JOEL LAUBER: Any other questions you have. MR. CHAIRMAN: Not at this time. We'll see what develops throughout the remaining portion of tile hearing and we thank you for your cooperation. JOEL LAUBER: I have a question. MR. CHAIRMAN: Surely. JOEL LAUBER: What is the expected resolution of non-jurisdiction as per new law belonging? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, I, I won't tell you that we were totally cognizance of this fact. We were aware of it, OK and we didn't know that it was going to happen as quickly as it happened. But, it appears that the Town Board has taken the jurisdiction of Special Permits out of the Special Permit area and tile 130 Zone which is the Residential Zone. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: For Wineries only. MR. CHAIRMAN: For Wineries only, OK, and what will happen then is most of the jurisdiction will then be placed within the Planning Board's hands. You'll be permitted to have a Winery as a matter of right provided that you have the significant site plan approval from the Planning Board. So we intend to do, is take all the testimony from here and go over there and tell them that this is what you have agreed to and a --- Page 19 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals JOEL LAUBER: They know that already. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, yes, I'm sure they do. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yeah, we have to record over there. MR. CHAIRMAN: We actually have to transmit the alright, so ..... . JOEL LAUBER: transmit our record over, as a matter of MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, its not requiring Special Exeeption as of December 3rd, l think. JOEL LAUBER: And this is alright. This doesn't, does this change the timing? That's what I wondered about. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, the timing, well you know, tile timing is as quickly as you can convince the Planning Board so that they can give you the stamp, then you're done, that's basically it. What we have been asked to do is to continue the hearing, bringing in all the neighbors' comments and concerns so that it can be made a part of a composite record and give it to the Planning Board. JOEL LAUBER: MR. CHAIRMAN: JOEL LAUBER: Planning Board? I see. Right, and again we thank you. Then, I will hear ne×I or will I inquire of the kind of an exception is now going to move to Planning? MR. CHAIRMAN: No, its going to be a matter of, right without a Special Permit. JOEL LAUBER: Oh! No prior exception? I'm sorry. You say that the jurisdiction of this Page 20 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: You're going to actually inquire the Planning Board when they're going to put yours on for a final approval. JOEL LAUBER: Did this Just happen? MR. CHAIRMAN: You know we, we didn't think it was going to happen just that quickly and a .... BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: We heard about it about two weeks ago. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we had no knowledge of it, that it was going to, that quickly on December 7th and we didn't know that it actually occurred on December 3rd. JOEL LAUBER: Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, it's one of the rear times that so~netimes you just don't get notice of it. How are you tonight Sir, Ma'am? Would you like to, we apologize, we were just trying to get the parking situation down. JOSEPH FRISTACHI: I'm aware of the new law that the administration passed. They talked to me to express myself tonight about how I feel about it. I was looking at a building right next to a property so close that it's unbelievable at the pond. The Board of Appeals can't do nothing at this point so the Planning Board doesn't know how much they can do. I think there's plenty of property where they can put this building more to this side of their property and not to put a ring around my neck of my properly where I can't enjoy my house the way I bought it and I intend to use. ( ) properties to me is worth tile effort and you know I intend to keep it that way and to create any problems with traffic. Again, I'm being Page 21 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals ( ) so that's in the weekend. We come here special weekend until ! retire in six months from now and to get into a mess like that within seven-eight months makes my property worse. MR. CHAIRMAN: I understand. JOSEPH FRISTACHI: I don't know how, what can I express for myself or if I should invest money in hiring an attorney 1 didn't do yet, I probably will. MR. CHAIRMAN: I, I don't, you know I'm not trying to take anything out of any attorney's pocket, to be honest with you. I know this is going on the record but, I think you express yourself perfect, perfectly. JOSEPH FRISTACHI: I'm not trying to hurt anybody. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, I, you know and I think that you ..... JOSEPH FRISTACHI: Mr. Lauber is my neighbor and I don't want to put any problems, but I don't want to see my granddaughter to be molested by one of the people who go over there and drink wine and ! see what's happened to Pindar right now. It's hard to control thegn, they should dedicate a whole Police Department over there someday in the month of September, it's not enough and I know my property is going to be molested and going to be bothered and there would be cars on my property and people close by with buildings ( ). MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm not trying to play down the situation OK. We certainly don't have anything in the magnitude that we have of other wineries in the immediate area but, at the same time your concerns Page 22 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals are concerns to the Planning Board and express those concerns. JOSEPH FRITASCHI: I will. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. JOSEPH FRITASCHI: I express whatever comes ( my opinion. That if worse comes to worse, again, very important to us. I would expect you to take those same ) to express I'll have to hire don't know when I'm here. I haven't, I'm here whenever I want. I paid my tax today, all the things ( ) and I ...... . MR. CHAIRMAN: ~Vell, well that's basically tile issue. You're not paying less tax because you're here only a portion of tile time. Your paying the same tax, right. JOSEPH FRITASCHI: That's what I mean, so, so, I'm here to enjoy. I bought the house because the Town of Southold is well known with respect to residential area, makes sure that the Burger King don't come in or other institutions that they create a mess in the neighborhood. And you know the Wineries they come, it's good for the economy and I agree with that. I'm in business, I know what it is to be accomplished, ( ). I'm glad that they give an incense to the Winery to build up and to expand and to create jobs and whatever, but not to ruin my house. If you go from my house and you open ( ) tomorrow morning and you stand from my fence on the east side of the property, the building is right over there. As a matter of fact they have something growing. When we had the an attorney to talk to hire door to a heavy volume of here weekends. I can't see myself because I refuse to live next ). Mr. Lauber is ( ). I'm only how he can keep a time schedule. I Page 23 - Hearing Transcript ReGular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals wind storm a couple of days ago, it was all over my property. It was a bottle of something. Now that we are several hundred feet away I'm right over there. I know because we ( ). MR. CHAIRMAN: Not knowing that the law was, jurisdiction was changed the weekend after this hearing if we had it on Wednesday, it was approximately the 10th or llth if I did go back to Mr. Lauber's site and I did, I did begin to understand exactly what you were talking about. So, you know, not withstanding the fact, I mean, we don't have the ultimate jurisdiction anymore but I completely concur that you have a legitimate concern. There's no question about it. JOSEPH FRITASCHI: Well, they have plenty of space on each side of the property where they ( ) they come in and ( ) and make sure that they have respect for another citizen that lives next door frown them and I wish they do that. MR. CHAIRMAN: I understand, OK. Have a Happy New Year as best as you can and thank you. Is there anybody else also would like to speak? OK, hearing no further comment I'll make a motion closing the hearing and reserving the, well we can do the letter of non-jurisdiction now~ right. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes, we can. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, I'I1 make a motion indicating that there is a source of negative based upon the current change in the Code as of December 3, 1994. I offer that gentlemen as a resolution. MEMBER DINIZIO: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? Page 24 - I{earing Transcript Regu~lar Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD MEMBERS: MR. CHAIRMAN: 8:07 P.M, Aye, Thank you again. Application No: 4293 - EDWARD J. MUNSON MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for Variance under Article IIIA, Section 100-30A.3 based upon the December 7, 1994 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for per~nission to construct addition to dwelling which will have an insufficient sideyard setback at less than the required 15 feet, and total side yards at less than the required 25 feet. Location of Property: 1545 Oak]awn Avenue, Southold; Parcel No. 1000-70-3-5. Containing 10,400 sq. ft. of land area. Copy of survey dated November 2, 1994 indicating the one story frame home, sits approximately in tile center of this piece of property and the nature of the application which is a proposed addition ill the back corner and a copy of the Suff01k County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who would like to be heard? Anybody here for the Munson application ? Oh, how are you Sir? EDWARD MUNSON: Yes. I applied for this addition of, there's a, · and I'm approaching by 2 feet 2 inches on it, 15 feet sideyard clearance and I'm asking for a variance to, to give me the depth of the sun room aftdr underneath the light. MI{. CHAIRMAN: Alright. Does anybqdy hav~ any questions of this applicant? Page 25 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: EDWARD MUNSON: MEMBER DINIZIO: EDWARD MUNSON: MEMBER DINIZIO: 2 inches, variance of 12.6. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I think just in case we needed it. MEMBER DINIZIO: Oil, alright. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: off. MEMBER DINIZIO: do our decision. That's 2 feet 6 inches, right? I beg your pardon? 2 feet 6 inches, no 2 feet 2 inches. 2 feet 2 inches. because it says, requesting a No, we added the extra 4 inches We talked about it. We rounded it I'll make it. Second. Alright. All in favor? MEMBER DINIZIO: MEMBER DOYEN: MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBERS: Aye. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Yes. MEMBER DIN1ZIO: Oh, alright. That's all I have, I just wanted to make sure that (laughter, could not understand). MR. CHAIRMAN: Anybody have any questions? Alright. This is one of the rear applications I can't grill you on because it's, I wish they were all this easy to be perfectly honest with you Mr. Munson. Let's just see if there's anybody in the audience would like to speak in favor or against this application? Alright, who wants to offer a resolution. We'll add it on to here then. I mean when we Page 26 - Hearing Transcript Reg~tlar Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:20 P.M. Application No. 4292 - JAY AND MARY THOMSON MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for a Variance under Article IIIA, Section 100-30A.3 based upon the November 30, 1994 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for permission to construct addition to existing dwelling which will exceed the maximum lot coverage limitations. Location of Property: 695 Bayshore Road, Greenport, Parcel No. 1000-53-6-714. I have a copy of the survey which is dated back to May 15, 1978, which iudicates it's one and a half story frame house which again sits approximately in the center of the property. The nature of this application is a small addition on the of approximately 12 foot by 12.4 on the front of the dwelling and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. How are you tonight Sir? JAY THOMSON: Mt{. CHAIRMAN: record? JAY THOMSON: these --- MR. CHAIRMAN: JAY THOMSON: OK and you? Is there something you'd like to state for the I think I've said most everything. I do have Oh good, we'll take them. People on the other side, on each side. to one, of course she didn't understand what it was about. I spoke MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, good. Page 27 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals JAY THOMSON: And I told her that Joan stepped out. I have some photos that might help to clarify this. I only brought three. (Talking amongst themselves). That is the interior of the room standing in the doorway, the first photo you see. The second photo is another shot of the room itself, if I may go along with you. If you see that lamp in the middle of there, there's a bureau in between, you cannot open the draws because the chairs are so tight together. On this one, the, this bookcase here, you can't open the bottom because it hits the couch. This was taken from across the road. There's the notice that I was required to put up. If you look very closely down at the base of this there are two white chairs which you can't see it, you can barely see. Those are the extent of the addition. You see this building to your right here, this is a garage. It's almost the length of the property. There's about a 15 foot opening. The next photo shows getting closer. Again, if you look between the side of this tree here, you see the two windows. That's where the addition starts, right there next to the shutter. MEMBER WILTON: You won't be any closer to the road than the garage next to you? JAY THOMSON: I won't even be out as far as the garage. MR. CHAIRMAN: His existing garage. JAY THOMSON: My own garage. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, his own garage. JAY THOMSON: the road. That green garage is only 5 or 6 feet back from Page 28 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: When you're looking at the front of your house is it going all tile way over to the right side of your house? JAY THOMSON: Ne, it's only going to be on the right side of the house and literally you'll have a U shape opening between the garage here and tile addition. That will be as it shows with shrubbery in it. MEMBER VILLA: So, it's going over to the, as far to the right as your existing house. So, it's, what and I don't, I don't have a survey. JAY THOMSON: Which photo are you looking at? Well, if you go through the photos, I this photo right here, end of the addition. think it will become self-explanatory. In you see the two white chairs, those are the MEMBER VILLA: JAY THOMSON: MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBER VILLA: JAY THOMSON: ones. MEMBER VILLA: Unfortunately, there's three chairs. No, the two white chairs on the right hand --- That are in line with the barbecue gpill. Well, there's one, two ..... Well, these two right here, these, the two right OK, I'm looking at the one that was half in by the tree, that's a third one. JAY THOMSON: No, that, that is going to be the area that will be open, as it is now, with shrubbery in it. MR. CHAIRMAN: This is a better picture. Show him that picture. JAY THOMSON: Now this picture, if this picture right here, this building which is my neighbor's building, extends 7-1/2 feet out from Page 29 - lfearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 $outhold Town Board of Appeals the side of my building. problem. MEMBER VILLA: JAY THOMSON: You can't see it because of the perspective Right. l'm going to go out 5 feet to this chair. Come over to this chair and go right back in between, well, right where this, right where the photo ends. MEMBER VILLA: Alright. So, you'll be 5 feet in front of his. JAy THOMSON: You'll notice his building has no windows on that side. It's ..... MEMBER VILLA: What you're saying is that he's out 7 feet and you're going to 5 feet in front of that, you're going out 12 feet. JAY THOMAS. Correct, but then you go another 6 or 7 feet he has a full leugth garage running right on the property line. Alright, now I've stepped back to the garage. You see where tile chair is, not the first white chair, but the second one? MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. JAY THOMSON: That's where it will start. It's a perspective problem because it's a 12 x 12 room, then I'll just a, take in another shot, it shows another of how far that building next to me extends right along with what I'm going to. Because they are extremely small lots in that area, most of us that had majority are what I call a single lot, some people were brilliant years ago and bought double lots and then put their house in the middle or offset it to one side. So what we've done their house is parallel to ours. Their garage is here, there's about a _15 or (where on the wrong side), their garage is here, their house extends to here already, Page 30 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals there's a 15 foot area that use to be a dog pen. Now, the Czako use to own it and that's where I wish to put the addition. This small odd little box at the end is my entrance to the basement. That will bare to be moved and I']1 have depth. So you're going to have a basement in there I MR. CHAIRMAN: guess. JAY THOMSON: MR. CHAIRMAN: JAY THOMSON: There is a basement. No, I mean in the addition ( ). I have to put a walk space. I have no other access to tile basement. So literally the doors that now exist will simply be moved out. There is a very large, right at the end of this is a very large apple tree which in the summertime and this end of the lot is very heavily wooded as you, if you look al the photos. It is difficult to even see this end of the With that apple tree full which is very because we don't get the afternoon sun. house in tile sum[nertime. important where we live We get the morning sun which cooks the house. If we got the afternoon sun too, it would be a broiler. But, the trees protect us from the afternoon sun, the later afternoon sun and a, this additional will only be visible from one portion of the property itself. As you get down on the south side it wilt disappear behind the tree. MEMBER VILLA: And the tree is behind the garage, your neighbor's garage. JAY THOMSON: garage is there. Yes. The garage is actually right here. Their And this tree, well I've planted in different year round trees, that stay green to slowly hope to block off his garage Page 3] - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals and we'll be transplanting some of the evergreens around here to do the same thing and block it off. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you Sir. Is there anybody else who would like to speak either for, I want to keep this set alright? JAY THOMSON: Alright, you can keep two sets. Two is, well, you can keep them all, one is fine for me. (Discussing as to the amount of sets to be kept amongst them). MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone that would like to speak in favor of this application other than the applicant? Anybody like to speak against the application? Hearing no further comment are there any specific objections to this application? MEMBERS: I think we would like to discuss it. MR. CHAIRMAN: You want to discuss it. Alright, we'll discuss it. We will be entertaining this. It depends upon how lengthy the last hearing gets, Mr. Thomson. You're welcome to hang around and you know. I don't mean to be so trite in reference to using these common call terms, but you never know how far we're going to go. You're welcome to call us tomorrow, you're welcome to come back. Hearing no further comment I'll make a motion reserving decision until later. MEMBER DINIZIO: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye. Page 32 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals 8:20 P.M. Application No: 4291 - JAMES M. AND ELAINE O'KEEFE MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for a Special Exception under Article IIIA, Section 100-30B to establish Bed and Breakfast use as an accessory incidental to the applicant's sirlgle family residence and ownership of dwelling located at 54300 C.R. 48, Southold; Parcel No. 1000-52-3-1. Zone District: R-40 Low-Density Residential. I have ten in plans and a copy of the site plan of the area of the house to be used and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map illdicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Are Mr. and Mrs. O'Keefe here? JAMES O'KEEFE: MR. CHAIRMAN: JAMES O'KEEFE: Elaine. MR. CHAIRMAN: JAMES O'KEEFE: Yes. How do you do Sir? How are you? Good evening. I'm James O'Keefe, my wife How do you do, ma'am. We have made application for this B&B. We live in a home that's about I00 years old. It's located on Rt. 48, which is a busy commercial-type road. We feel that the expenses of maintaining that old home and tt~e rise of taxes aud the interest rates have caused us to be concerned, and to try and make a little income so that we can keep that home in the condition that it is in today. So, we made application to be approved for a B&B and we think it's all criteria and all things set up by the UK Task Page 33 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Force. If you gentlemen will toke it under consideration, and we'll be here to answer any questions you might have. MR. CHAIRMAN: Just for the record, Mr. O'Keefe, how many rooms do you anticipate, I know I have it all here but just for tile record. JAMES O'KEEFE: Three. MR. CHAIRMAN: Three rooms. OK. 1 know you've done a more than an upstanding job here and scoping everything for us and in fact it was so good that I didn't even really felt that, fee] that I had to go into the house itself, but as you know we've had had a request for the possibility of reserving this hearing over to the next month for someone else to speak so .... BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: That was withdrawn. MR. CHAIRMAN: That was withdrawn at this point. Alright. So, at this particular point we're going to go with it. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: We did get a letter late today from Dan Pollock. You might want to read it, Mr. O'Keefe. (Secretary gave Mr. O'Keefe a copy of the letter.) MR. CHAIRMAN: While you're reading that, ]et me just, the Board Members have any specific questions of Mr. O'Keefe at this time? I mean we're going to continue hearing, but. MEMBER DINIZIO: I mean, I have questions about the of the road while we're having the hearing. MR. CHAIRMAN: have him here. do any of or Mrs. with the ownership Well why don't you ask him the questions while you Page 34 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: You're having three bedrooms. One on the first floor and two on the second floor. MR. O'KEEFE: Did you need this back? CHAIRMAN: No, sir, that's yours. MEMBER VILLA: The designated rooms you have let's say B&B rooms, those are basically sleeping quarters that you're talking about. JAMES O'KEEFE: Yes, Sir. MEMBER VILLA: That is two adjoining on the first floor and then one on the second floor. JAMES O'KEEFE: That's correct. MEMBER VILLA: And I assume they would use some of the other parts, like your living room, dining room or what have you. JAMES O'KEEFE: The living room, traditionally Bed & Breakfast that we'd be able to share our living room and our dining room. CHAIRMAN: You were going to ask a question on the road. MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes. There were a couple ef letters that went back and forth. You wrote one, someone wrote one, you wrote in response to an earlier one concerning the ownership of that road. JAMES O'KEEFE: Yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: Is there any significant documentation on that road at all? Anything in your deed, or your neighbors' deeds that indicate that road is a --. JAMES O'KEEFE: I'm sorry, I could not find any. Obviously I'm not an attorney and not versed on looking all these things up but to the extent that I could investigate it, I've found that the road is Page 35 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals to determine to have an unknown owner, and I have discovered that there have been no taxes paid on that road. And the road is, I'm at the very end of that road - I mean the very beginning of that road -so any guests that I would have would not be passing anybody's residence except for the resident right directly opposite me. MEMBER DINIZIO: OK, as far as the association? JAMES O'KEEFE: The association as far as I understand is not a legal entity. It has no bearing, no standing as a legal force. It's a new scoop of people who toss in some money each year to be able to plow the road from time to time. It has no legal grounds, they don't pay any taxes, they pay no insurance on the road, no insurance on any of the rights-of-way which I own, right-of ways. I pay the taxes on it. They're deeded to me and the association I believe is a loose knit group of people who for the sake of emergency vehicles get nothing down the road and the elderly to be able to get out of the road, just that kind of, put money together so it gets plowed. One woman on the block, Mrs. Higgins in the middle of the block, she is designated to make the determination when the road gets plowed. So when she determines it's high enough she is in the middle of the block, she calls someone to plow the road. MEMBER DINIZ10: Do you contribute to that in any fashion? JAMES O'KEEFE: No, we don't contribute to that and the reason why we don't contribute to that is because we pay the taxes on the rights-of-way that the other people that live on Ruch Lane have right-of-way rights to. Page 36 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: With reference to this letter from Mr. Pollock? You know he mentions putting in a different driveway which I would oppose. I don't know how you feel about it but I think there's one lane of traffic coming out in that direction would be more than sufficient without creating another driveway on Route 48. JAMES O'KEEFE: I think just to, just to kind of go along with that, I think if you were to add another driveway on 48 if anything, I, my own personal opinion, you would add to the confusion of people driving as opposed to aiding people in operating their vehicles in the neighborhood. MEMBER DINIZIO: MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, that's all I have. Thank you. Anybody else have any questions of this gentleman? Alright, we'll see what develops throughout the hearing and we'll be back to you for any rebuttal. Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Is there anybody would like to speak against the application? I was just going to ask if there was a spokesperson. You got it. CARMELA BORELLI: I'm it. Just for the record; it's Carmela Borelli of Ongioni & Borelli in Greenport and I'm going to give you a copy of a memo and exhibits. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Could the persons that you represent please? we just have the names of CARMELA BORELLI: It's on the memorandum. It's George Tsoukatos who are the adjacent property owners. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is that to the easterly side? CARMELA BORELLI: Mr. & Mrs. Just to the other side of the private road. Page 37 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January ~1, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Mt{, CHAIRMAN: Oh, alright. CARMELA BORELLI: OK, which I believe is to the west of the property. I'm not going to a read from the memo because I'm sure you can read that at your leisure, but I would like to go through a synopsis of what's in there. The applicant supplied as part of the application the deed to the property, the survey, drawings of the inte~.ior of the house, short Environmental Assessment form and two questionnaires. Those exhibits are also part of the exhibits attached to our papers here, and I've used them in in part of the narrative, so I referred to them, so I've given them to you again and we've added a Suffolk County Tax Map and I have or made some changes on what was the survey that they submitted to show you a parking area that exists and that it is also in the exhibit. The first thing that my client objects to is that this application was given in a negative declaration under SEQRA. We do not believe that it was appropriate. The applicant answered all of the questions on the Environmental Assessment form in the negative, but, we believe that questions 4, 8, 11, 12, 13 and 15 should have been answered in the affirmative as opposed to in the negative. The letting of rooms to six people, we believe, creates more noise in the area. So, we don't believe you can say no to that. That's question 12. The approval of a Bed and Breakfast adds cars to the area and thus adds traffic to the area and that's an affirmative answer to number 11. Additional people at the residence add to the septic system and could potentially add to ground water prob]e_ms, that's nt~mber 4. The visual character of the neighborhood is certainly altered by the Page 38 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals increase of noise and traffic and people, that's number 8. And we believe there is a public controversy with regard to this particular application, that's number ]5, as will be evidenced by some further letters that I'm going to give to you tonight that was just given to me by adjacent property owners in both this colony and in the colony We think that those effects on the environment have adjacent to it. to be reviewed not only in the context of the B&B, but in the context of the two additional strips of land that this applicant owns, that's the 25 foot strips that are, give him access to both Long Island Sound and Arshamomaque Pond. The, they are our exhibit we have, I think it's exhibit 2. I have attached the Suffolk County Map with little arrows that show you where the pieces of land are. That's the right-of-ways that Mr. O'Keefe was speaking about. Anyone who stays at the Bed and Breakfast can go to use that facilities by, going through the right-of-way to go to the beach and that means they have to cross Route 48 and/or they have to walk down that private road. And I will confirm that my investigation of that private road turns exactly what Mr. O'Keefe has said. According to - my brief says the Southold Town's Local Historian in the Tax Assessor's office, that subdivision went into effect in the 1920s. There was -there's no record of what happened to the road. It certainly remained a private road, it never went over to the town. Nobody has paid taxes on it, but the Association does maintain it and the Association are the people who live up and down that road. They contribute money and they get it cleared in the Page 39 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals winter, they get it taken care of and they maintain it, but there is no owner listed on it and nobody has paid taxes on this. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is any ,portion of that subdivision road, Carrnela, assessed ? CARMELA BORELLI: Not according to the assessor's office. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, thank you. CARMELA BORELLI: They never knew who it belonged to. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. CARMELA BORELLI: We believe that the use of that private road potentially imposes liability on the home owners who are maintaining it. The New York Law requires that the owners of a private road maintain the road at a reasonably safe condition and exercise reasonable care under the circumstances to the benefit of those utilizing the roadway. This Association was taking it upon themselves to maintain that road because they have to get in and out. In maintaining it, I mean this is a litigious society. Somebody gets hurt on that road they're not going to care whether you own it or not. If you maintain it and you didn't clean it proper]y, you're going to be potentially liable for that road. Mr. O'Keefe has said that they don't maintain insurance on that road but as a result of a B&B, they might have to purchase insurance on that road because there are going to be people from both sides of the community who could potentially be going down the road, The street itself wide. narrow. if you'll look at the survey you'll notice is only 25 foot It would not be allowed under today's code because it's too So therefore you have a narrow road where the two cars Page 40 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals can't pass on, and that roadway is going to be used. Now, in addition to that, Mr. O'Keefe's survey neglects to show you that he has added a parking area on the side of his house. I believe it's Exhibit 3A on ours. I've really taken his survey and just penciled in where that parking area is. Now that parking area is directly adjacent to my client's driveway. The parking area does not give you a 25-foot turnaround space to back out. When you back out of that driveway you back out almost into my clients' driveway but even if you don't back into their driveway, you back onto the road which is a very narrow road. Those photographs -the first photograph is just a picture from about just beyond my client's driveway looking out onto Rt. 48 and on the right-hand side of the photograph that is the edge of the parking area that Mr. & Mrs. O'Keefe have created. Photograph number 2 shows you the parking area, part of the parking area. And photograph number 3, is again that parking area that was created. Now, I took my car and parked it on that road. That's photograph number 4. I have a little Mitzubishi and as you can see, that road is quite narrow since my car practically takes up the entire road. That's in number 4 and number 5. Also, while I was taking the photographs I'm assuming that that young man that came out is Mr. & Mrs. O'Keefe's son. I'm not sure, but he came out of their house and that's a basketball net that they have on that roadway that he was playing basket ball at, which is again, this is where cars could go up and down. I then took my car and parked it in my client's driveway which is that photograph number 8 and I took a picture from behind my car out across it and you can see that Page 41 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals the parking area they created is directly opposite my client's driveway, so that any car that's parked in there for their guests is going to be backing up into a 25 foot road right where my clients' driveway is and I think that is definitely a potential hazard, and I think that it creates a hazard and potential liability for the people who maintain this road. Also, I wonder why the parking area was not shown on the survey because it exists and my understanding is from my clients and other neighbors that it was created shortly after Mr. & Mrs. O'Keefepurchased the property. I also in their questionnaire they advised the Beard that they did not own property in the area and yet the deed itself which is our exhibit number 1 of his deed shows you that he owns those two rights-of-way and those two rights-of-way allow people who would be staying at his Bed & Breakfast or their Bed & Breakfast to cross 48 and/or walk down the private road. I would also like you to look at the drawings of the house itself. The house has I believe seven rooms on the first floor and five rooms on the second floor. The maximum allowed use for a B&B is three bedrooms. Mr. & Mrs. O'Keefe have marked those bedrooms that they intend to use for the B&B, but I would like to know how the Town of Southold is ever going to monitor and enforce that only three bedrooms in that house are being used for B&B. It's absolutely impossible. In a house that only has three spare bedrooms then that's all they would use, but in a house that has seven rooms on the first floor and five rooms on the second floor there is absolutely no way that you could monitor that only three bedrooms Page 42 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals are being used, and I think that it's just a precursor to abuse in terms of how many rooms will be let in that house, especially in view of the fact that Mr. O'Keefe said that the expense of maintaining this house and his rising taxes was the reason that they decided they needed income to maintain their home which is over 100 years old. Well, if you need income then, certainly renting more than three rooms would be much better for you than three rooms in and of itself. We also believe that adjacent properties will have diminished value because of the commercialization of this property. The property I'm sure is going to have a sign that advertises it as a B&B. There'll be as I said added pedestrian traffic, there'll be added automotive traffic and under the law those are considerations in the diminution of value, and we believe that those things coupled with the potential safety hazard created by the cars and the people will definitively decrease the value of tile houses. So many of the neighbors are opposed to it that a letter was signed by 29 people in both this community and the adjacent community opposing the B&B. I'm corrected, 28, not 29. The last point in our brief is that we believe that Mr. & Mrs. O'Keefe have been less than candid with this Board in advising them as to what is really going on. One of the questions on the questionnaire as I said earlier is "do you own any other property in the area?" And the answer to that was in the negative. However, a search of the records shows that in September of 1993 Mr. & Mrs. O'Keefepurchased vacant land in ChardonneyWoods and a further search of the records, Exhibits 9 and l0 in those exhibits shows you Page 43 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals that they took out a mortgage from the North Fork Bank which is a two-year mortgage and North Fork Bank gives you two types of mortgage. One is a two-year mortgage, interest only, and you have to build within the two years and then they convert the building loan and the land loan into a mortgage, and the other is a 5 or 10 self amortizing mortgage. This is a two-year loan which means that they bought land nine-tenths of a mile away and they have to build on it by September of 1995. I think that by not telling you that they own land in the vicinity, we're either dealing with an owner who is going to open a Bed & Breakfast and move out into another house or we're dealing with an owner who's going to sell the Bed & Breakfast and move out to another house and that's another item that one of the questionnaires asked you "if this house is for sale" and Mr. & Mrs. O'Keefe answered in the negative, that the house was not for sale. However, there has been a "For Sale" sign on that house for over a year. It was removed only the week after this application was filed. I called the local real estate broker and asked if that house was for sale and she said "yes." She gave me all of the particulars, $354,000, the number of rooms, everything else and I said "Gee, the for-sale sign is gone" and she said, "Well, I'll check". So she called, I believe, she spoke to Mrs. O'Keefe and was told that the property had been withdrawn from the market. That's a very convenient withdraw from the market if it was withdrawn only when this application was filed. My brother, quite incidentally was looking for a housein November and a broker took him to that house. I mean it was too big and too expensive so he didn't go in Page 44 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals and look at it, but it was for sale at that particular time. I only found that out yesterday. We believe that for all of these reasons this is not the usual request for a Special Exception. I'm quite cognizant to the fact that Special Exceptions are different than variances and that one you have a right to and one is an exception from the code but this Board has this Board has the ability to deny this application for any one of the reasons that I've enumerated - in terms of safety, decreased value ,and the fact that I do not believe that this property will be owner-occupied and if it is, it won't be by this particular applicant because of the things that I have attached. That's my presentation. In addition to which some of the people that are here tonight are all people from that community who oppose to this application and either have signed that or have come to show their opposition by being in attendance here tonight. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: names for the record please. CARMELA BORELLI: I think signed those letters? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Would they like to give their are they all the people who May I have their names -- MS. BORELLI: letters SECRETARY: They all signed the letters. So you have them in the They are among the 28 names given. Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Just briefly on a couple issues. Number 1, on the issue of the possibility of reviewing how many people would be utilizing this particular dwelling of premises, as you know that Page 45 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals would be out of our hands. We are not an organization whic,h you know, necessarily deals with that, nor do we actually go to a building inspector and tell them or ask them or request them to look at it. Certainly that would have to be, the surveillance would have to be within the community itself. CARMELA BORELLI: I understand that totally. My only point was, is that you have to be aware of that when you're dealing with tile application. So that the potential for abuse is enormous. MR. CHAIRMAN: How heavily utilized are the two rights-of-way that these people own? CARMELA BORELLI: I know that several of the homeowners in the association have deeded right-of-way over the pieces of land that Mr. & Mrs. O'Keefe own. That it's in their deeds that they can go to the beach because they use that beach, they use the Sound Beach. I'm not too sure how much the pond is used, but certainly they use the Sound Beach. They all have a right-of-way up and own that road which is Ruch Road. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is the possible0 change of location for parking area for this particular special permit, if it were granted? Is that a possibility that this could be some unanimity where the organization or the groups of people that you represent, actually you only represent the people across the street, but I mean, you kind of brought everybody into fold here, that there may be a possibility. CARMELA BORELLI: My understanding of their dislike of this application is I don't think they would be satisfied by moving the parking area. My understanding in talking to not only my clients Page 46 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals but in other people who are part of that association is that they bought their houses in that area for privacy. They bought them because they were on a private road, because they did have access through a right-of-way to a beach. My clients retired out hero and came out here to have peace and quite, and that is destroyed by transient guests coming and going at a Bed & Breakfast. They no longer, I mean if you think about it, in order to go to the beach they have to walk, you know, part of the way down the road, they have to cross 48, they have to walk in front of homeowners on 48, they have to walk between two houses on 78 (sic, 48)that are beach front property. If they go down to sit by the pond they've got to walk down that narrow houses. If you view that practically on top of understanding of their going to satisfy them. road past several houses between two site, you'd see that road there, they're one another those little houses and my feelings is that moving the parking is not Denying the application is going to satisfy them because they're just losing, I mean, my client has told me that he'd rather sell if lie had to live next to a Bed & Breakfast because I mean now he's paying, he showed me his tax bill $9,000 in taxes to the Town of Southold and if this is granted he wants to know what he's getting from the Town of Southold. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Does anybody have any questions of thi~ attorney? Is there anybody else who would like to speak against this application? Yes, Mr. Flynn, how are yon. MR. FLYNN: Good evening. I'm F.M. Flynn, a resident of Southold, and my remarks are about to be more general when I Page 47 - Hearing Transcript t{egular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals present them because of detailed information on the property. However, I would like to place these remarks on the record. The subject application represents an attempt to introduce a B&B into a residential district as a Special Exception. A Special Exception is deemed appropriate in a particular district when specified conditions are met. Every level of government with the exception of Southold's Town Board recognizes that B&Bsconstitute a commercial use. The IRS, well, first of all, the New York State Department of Equalization and Assessment classifies B&Bsas Category 418 Commercial Use. The IRS treats B&Bsas income-producing commercial properties. New York State's Taxation is based on the Federal Income Form and also imposes a sales tax. In addition, both the IRS and State permit deductions from depreciation. A benefit denied residential property owners. I might add that the Suffolk County imposes sales tax and also an occupancy use tax. There can be no question that B&Bs are commercial properties. Southold Town Board motivated by its own political agenda refuses to recognize this fact. Obviously this is a matter for planning, not politics. Zoning is a legislative function and cannot be delegated. This application if approved would change the use category of a single property within a residential district. Section 261 of Article 16 of Town Law empowers the Town Board to regulate and restrict, among other factors, both "the location and use of buildings, structures and land, or trade, residence and other Page 48 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals purposes". No specific differentiation made among trade, industrial and residential properties. Section 262 allows the Town Board to divide the town into districts best suited to carry out the purposes of this act. This section different referring to the code section, the Town Law section, this section differentiates among zoning districts their suitable uses and raises the critical question of whether a use is appropriate or suitable. Section 263 states that such regulation shall be made with reasonable consideration, among other things, "to the character of the district and its particular suitability for particular uses and with a view to conserving the value of buildings and encouraging the most appropriate use of land throughout the municipality." This application proposes to change a residential use to a commercial use. The New York State enabling act to town zoning to which reference has been made clearly imposes the responsibility for zoning on the Town Board and differentiates as does the Department of Equalization and Assessment between commercial and residential uses. It is is a planning and zoning function to divide the town into districts reserved for these particular uses. The Southold Board for reasons of its own has shirked its responsibility to provide a specific district in which B & Bs, commercial operations, are permitted. By default the Town Board has delegated zoning powers to the ZBA - an improper act. To grant commercial use as a Special Exception means that the ZBA can zone individual, commercial parcels and by extension convert an entire residential district to commercial PaKe 49 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, ]995 Southold Town Board of Appeals use. Obviously this constitutes rezoning and the elimination of a legally constituted residential district. In summary at this point, this application would change a property from residential use to a commercial use, a change which by and definition constitutes a change of zone - a power reserved to the Town Board. Even considered in the context of the matters to be considered by the ZBA in granting Special Exceptions, there is no basis for granting this application. The character of the district would certainly be changed by the introduction of a commercial use, and such use can hardly be considered suitable for the neighborhood. The conservation of surrounding residential values would not be achieved. Public health, safety and welfare must be considered. Reference has been made to traffic on the North Road, and the real question of the increased traffic on RuchRoad, privately owned by others, has not been explored. The subject property is not peculiarly suited for the proposed commercial use if its access is via a residentially-zoned private road owned by others. The ZBA has issued a negative declaration based upon a short form environmental assessment submitted by the applicant. A property's environment is not solely physical in nature. It has residual, social and economic aspects as well. From an economic stand point, it is a well-established principle that the incursion of in home owner uses in this ease, commercial, inflicts economic obsolescence on the value of surrounding properties. Economic obsolescence is defined as the diminution of values surrounding Page 50 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals properties by such outside influences. It is noted, or it isn't notable, that such obsolescence frequently results from legislative enactment. An aspect of the impact of B&B use which has been largely overlooked is the inequity imposed on the owners of existing tourist accommodations. These owners have substantial investments in commercially zoned properties and are subject to overhead expenses, taxes and regulations to which these B&Bs are not subject. The B&Bs would avoid these expenses and produce an iniquitous situation which would undercut the rates charged by the existing tourist facilities. In effect these B&B would be subsidized by the Town. With respect to the specific application, the B&B is purportedly restricted to three rooms in a building that has six or possibly seven bedrooms. Who is to supervise the intensity of this use? The Town of Southold is notorious for not enforcing any of its code regulations, not even those which are readily visible. How are they apt to monitor enforcement in this instance? The applicant owns three lots in the area, only one is included in the application. Are not the other, two capable of providing access to Long Island Sound, ArshmomaquePond respectively? Are these lots to be used by B&B patrons? Who is to regulate their use? Incidentally, as I read the application, RuchRoad is not included in the application as a lot. However, it is pertinent to the utilization of this property. Now, the applicant bases his application on a plea of hardship resulting from increased taxes and Page 51 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals maintenance costs. All residents of Southold are subject to these increasing costs. This is hardly a reason to support an application for a B&B as being the question of hardship. Not only would the applicant enjoy a source of income unavailable to his neighbors but he could also deduct maintenance expenses and depreciations, a benefit denied to the other residential property owners. Southold Supervisor (Wickham) responded to a question imposed at a public hearing on the proposed B&B Amendment. The question involved why B &Bs should not be located on major thoroughfares in commercially zoned areas. The Supervisor replied, "This was what the Town proposed, the Town Board proposed to effectuate by confining to structures into Hamlet areas." Granting the subject application and others as Special Exceptions would disburse commercial uses throughout Southold. Now, in conclusion, I am not adamantly opposed to the concept of B & Bs. If, it can be demonstrated that they are needed, and if they are to be properly located and zoned. They should be located in the districts specifically zoned for this use. Located on plots of substantial size, located on major thoroughfares and subject to appropriate levels of taxation. I rarely find myself in agreement with Suffolk Times editorials, However, its edition of August 25, 1994 in its nor they with me. edition, the paper noted that most B&Bs in Nantucket which was an area introduced here because the Town Board was justifying B&Bs. But, to go back. The editorial noted that most B&B in Nantucket are located in commercial areas. The editorial concluded Page 52 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals with a couple of variations on Nantucket's theme including a grandfather clause and a liberal interpretation of where B &Bscan be sited when they are contiguous to existing commercial zones, we see no reason why B&Bscan't become a vibrant sector of Southold as well. I believe, in closing, that this editorial constitutes at least a partial endorsement of my position. Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Flynn. Yes, certainly, you're welcome to use the mike if you want to, Mr. O'Keefe. I just want to say one thing that the constant back and forth is somewhat counter-productive. Let's just get to the issues and so on and so forth. JAMES O'KEEFE: I don't mean to take up a whole lot of time but its been stated about. Yes, the house was for sale. The house was withdrawn before any applications were made for a B&B. If need be, I can get it. It was an exclusive of Marion King and if need be we can get her to attest to that. The other point I would like to make is that we do own a piece of property that the counselor here says is nine-tenths of a mile. I don't know how far away it is. I thought it was over a mile but I certainly don't consider that in the neighborhood. Secondly, we do have that piece of property up for sale. There's a for sale sign on it and there has been a for-sale sign on it. Secondly, we have a two year mortgage on that thing. It's not required that we build, it's required that in two years we could pay it off and own that property. We bought that property for what we believed would be Page 53 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southo]d Town Board of Appeals speculation that we might be able to increase our monies by buying that property. That's why it was there any bearing on this particular instance. But, the other thing I just wanted rights-of-way. We have no intentions of Breakfast customers to use our rights-of-way. in the neighborhood use it. We don't want - which I don't think has to address also was the allowing our Bed & First off the people to interfere with the people in the neighborhood for that, but also there's the addition of liability. We don't want to take it upon ourselves the liability of the water areas for guests in our community. There is a town beach within walking distance, and certainly they would be welcomed to go there. That would be their business, but not - we would not allow them to use the rights-of-way. And the other thing I wanted to bring to your attention is was in writing before, is there are least four rental properties on Ruch Lane itself. And I just, while I'm on the subject, Ruch Lane residents and not all of them, but RuchLane residents are the only ones who have access to the right-of-way, not the adjoining residents or people that are in surrounding area. It's only Ruch Lane residents with the exception of one other person whom I believe as way back when was granted a right-of-way to it. Nobody else to my knowledge has any rights, has any use to those rights-of-way. The other thing that I just wanted to bring up was the fact that there are least four rental units on Ruch Lane right now of which none of the other residents and I don't think they should have, have any input on who it's rented to, how many cars are there, what time Page 54 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals of day or night they come through and not come through, the use of the road and non-use of the road. And if these rental, if these people that do rent, if they fell in the road, then I presume that they would be able to legally sue the whole community if the counselor has any bearing on what she says. And if that's the case, then I don't know that they belong there either. I'm not arguing to those being there. I'm just trying to bring to your attention that there are other people there and if you will, I don't consider it, and I don't consider a B&B a commercial use, but if you want to use that as the determination, I think that the rental properties are also commercial used. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you Sir. JAMES O'KEEFE: Just thank you if there's anything you might have. ELAINE O'KEEFE: that parking pad absolutely right. Just one thing. Relative to the admission of that the counselor was referring to. She is We've created it for our own personal use immediately after Hurricane Bob which was when we moved in when a huge 100 year old marie was upturned. Eleven tons to remove this stump. We had to do something with the hole. We use it for our own %lse. MR. CHAIRMAN: JAMES O'KEEFE: we've never had Thank you. And that's been in existence since 1991 and an objection to it. If anything, George, our neighbor and others have commented about how much it looked, how nice it looked in the area. Page 55 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. a motion closing the hearing comments. Seeing no hands I'll Yes, ma'am? Hearing no further co~nment, I'll make unless there are any last minute make a motion closing the hearing. 9:20 P.M. Application GASSER Nos. 4260, 4261 and 4262 Application for Variances concerning this property known and referred to as the American Armored Tank Museum, 620 Love Lane and the south side of County Rt. 48, Mattituck, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-140-2-16 located in the Hamlet Business Zone District, which requests are noted as follows: Appl. No. 4260 - Request for Variance under Article IX, Section 100-91C ( 1 ) based upon the July 12, 1994 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for the placement of accessory tower structure which is required to be located in a rear - WILLIAM F. MRS. POLLOCK: I am Mrs. Pollock, the one who wrote the letter. we are not against the B&B but we would like to have another separate entrance between that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, thank you. MEMBER WILTON: I second that. (The hearing ended.) MR. CHAIRMAN: We're reserving decision until later. I don't know if we will get to it tonight. We thank you all for your courtesy and have a nice evening. Page 56 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals yard with a setback as per Section 100-33B(2) at five feet from the property line; Appl. No. 4261 Request for Variance under Article XXIII, Section 100-231A based upon the July 12, 1994 Notice of Disapproval for the height of the fence which exceeds the required height limitation; Appl. No. 4262 - Request for Variance under Article IX, Section 100-93 based upon the July 12, 1994 Notice of Disapproval for the outside storage or display which is not permitted in this Hamlet-Business Zone District. The Chairman read the legal notice as advertised in the official newspaper of the Town. MR. CHAIRMAN: I have the innumerable amounts on (inaudible original tax map and we have due to coughing) the survey on this property; I will now turn the hearing over to I assume noted Counselor, County Legislator. GREG BLASS: Good evening. All Members of the Board, how's everybody? I have to submit for the record, Mr. Chairman, the confirmation of posting which I'll offer as an exhibit. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Board, by way of background and on details of the applications before you tonight, I just want to say that the American Armored Foundation is a non-profit operation. It provides a tourist site in 1994, of approximately 17,000 visitors, all of whom are spread out on any one day operation. They never arrive at large volume, but, during the summer months they operate from Wednesday to Sunday. They employ at that period of time two Page 57 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southo]d Town Board of Appeals or three local senior citizens. They have six employees on staff and I want to point out that one of the part-time employees is going to, is here tonight and he is submitting a statement, a signed statement that he will take-up the responsibility outlined in the Board's negative declaration relating to blankets and daily checks. I'd if I might on those two aspects. drainage pans and oil absorption like to focus the Board's attention With regard to the daily checks of the vehicles, I have for the Board's attention, I'd like to submit in the record a signed statement from Mr. Paul Peterson, which statement indicates that he is now going to take up the responsibility of daily checks. Mr. Peterson is here tonight if the Board has any questions for him. I only have one copy of that. l'd be glad to offer other copies at a later time to anyone who needs it. He will be responsible for, as his statement says, the daily checks that relate to the vehicles and other displays at the site. The aspects of the mitigating measures of drainage pans and oil absorption blankets, I have, and I do have several copies of this for anyone who wishes to have one, an outline of the mitigation measures that the Board of Appeals has indicated in their neg dec which is under date of January 3rd. I'll pass this out to the Board Members and also to anyone else that may wish to have it. These mitigation measures indicate that practice of the drainage pan has already been underway at the site. The oil absorption blankets, we expect them to be available and in use on the property within the next couple of weeks. We have just been going through the various items on the market that would meet this purpose and as the Page 58 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals statement indicates they will be put into operation or installed beneath each displayed vehicle before the end of this month. I'd like to talk now about the fence, the tower and the outdoor display. I'll start with the outdoor display of the vehicles for which we seek a variance for. the Hamlet-Business by indicating that the mitigating ~neasures for environmental protection really serve to, I think, address the concerns that the Board has and the town, as a community would have about the outdoor displays. But, the arrangement of the property, the dimensions of the property, don't really lend themselves to make these interior displays where we would be able to have the sufficient number of displays or actually be able to have the kind of operation that we envision here at the tourist site. We think that the outdoor displays are not for war machines really that have been referred to. These are, if I daresay, these are much more of Articles of Historic interest that correspond to the master plan, theme tourism in the Town's master plan and I think that the museum function of the community of Love Lane form. I would like to go this site does not adverse the impact, in Mattituck in any manner, shape or to the Board and ask for the Board's consideration of the community interest in having a museum operation like this and how the imposition of the, of only indoor displays would really create the kind of hardship and obstacle to this museum's operation that ought to be avoided. With regard to the tower, again, I would point out to one objective-- to the objectives, the characterization that this is a gun tower - this never was a gun tower, never could be. The POW Memorial Tower is an observation Page 59 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals tower similar to that which was used, it was used in POW Camps in several of the awards and conflicts that have occurred in our history, but, as per the Town Board's directive, the observation tower, the memorial tower was moved 100 feet back from the Love Lane frontal area. It was again moved at the direction of the Planning Board, and then it is now in such a configuration as to be slightly less than five feet from the property line of the rear and side but that is unavoidable because of the Planning Board's requirement for the installation of five parking spaces in the same rear area. So, we're asking the Board to consider the American Armored Foundation's request that the variation of approximately 9 inches ][.7 inches and about 2 feet on the three corners of that tower being closer by that measure from 5 feet, be given careful evaluation by the Board. We respectfully request that. As for the fence, we would point out that the United States Army originally required a 10-foot fence for the kind of displays that we had, have intended and (inaudible). The fence is 6-1/2 feet on the side and 6.8 feet in the front. We ask that the Board understand that in addition to that barbed wire has been placed strictly for security reasons, not for any other extended purposes but double barbed wire to avoid intrusion of, by vandals and others. We think that overall, however, the Board should take into consideration tile fact that every directive and every mandate from tile Town Board, from this Board and from the Planning Board has been complied with by the applicant in every respect. And we would also suggest to you that the objective of this operation is to be a community Page 60 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals involved figure, a good citizen, if you will. They contribute to the Veterans' Parades, they contribute equipment to display at places when requested, they honor discounts and even admit free of charge the various groups, including senior citizens, they are very attractive to the Boy Scouts and other organizations. We ask that whatever the Board does, if they allow these three variances, if the application is to be considered, we would be most grateful and we don't really care - it's irrelevant to us whether they are considered separately or together. There is a suggestion that has been made that there is some scheme underway to cause these applications to be considered separately. If the Board wishes to consider them as a whole, certainly the Board can do so. We just ask that every consideration be given to the fact that when we talk about law now, zoning law, the property is relatively unique, its dimensions don't lend itself, don't lend themselves as I said to substantial uses. It's unique in that regard. There are no properties in this particular zone district that have these dimensions and these characteristics. The applicant would really have no ability to realize a reasonable return under any other uses. As I said before, we don't see how a museum activity - a tourist attraction like this - adversely impacts this community. It has not been shown by anybody, and in fact we have a number of people here and a number of people were not able to be here tonight who very ~nuch favor the operation of this facility. We, therefore ask the Board's indulgence. Thank you very much. Page 61 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Blass just before you sit down, could I possibly have a copy of the placement of the tower itself. You had read some dimensions off, if you might have it and we could have it, I don't see it in the file. GREG BLASS: As to present location? MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we'll make a copy of it, Mrs. Gasser, and we'll give it back to you. GREG BLASS: This is a sketch drawing. We don't have a surveyor's drawing of that. But we'll provide one. MR. CHAIRMAN: Greg, that has the setbacks on it? Written in? GREG BLASS: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, there's no excessive height on that tower? That tower has been shortened to the point which it does not exceed the 18 feet? GREG BLASS: Right, 17.5 feet. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, great. GREG BLASS: And that was reduced from its original height to conform to the height requirements. MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me go back to the SEQRA review or the long environmental assessment form. When I was down there, Mr. Gasser was very gracious in showing me the place, and they were moving some articles around and so on and so forth and I noticed that there were actual pieces of plywood under some of the vehicles that were dripping oil and so on and so forth. Can I suggest to you that whatever type of blankets that are used in reference to the collection of oil and what you might be investigating, that with the Page 62 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals great amount of wind that we've had out here, unless that particular article of absorption is fixed somehow to a piece of plywood then it's going to blow, except for that area which becomes saturated with oil, so, I'm suggesting that you do deal with it. Yes, Mrs. Gasser. MRS. GASSER: The oil absorption blankets are going to be placed under the drip pans. MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh, under the drip pans. MRS. GASSER: The drip pans will be the way --- MR. CHAIRMAN: That you're going to actually collect the oil and any excess will be on. Alright, that's great, so we won't go back to the plywood situation that you had there or whatever. MRS. GASSER: No. GREG BLASS: The drip pans themselves will also be weighted. They will have weight in them. Not even to interfere with the volume that the drip pans will hold. MR. CHAIRMAN: Ok. WILLIAM GASSER: In that actual instance of the plywood and that is to lay on to work on those (interrupted)- MR. CHAIRMAN: No, I figured that, on it so I just assumed it was ...... MR. GASSER: (Chuckle amongst them) Yes, I know, it just had oil (Inaudible response). MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, the situation, I didn't ask this question but I'll ask it now. They were moving a rather large tank at the time that I was there. From a security standpoint is there any possibility other than the veterans that use this facility and are friends of the Gassers and all, is there any possibility of starting Page 63 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southo]d Town Board of Appeals any of these vehicles without, I mean, could someone who was a veteran come in and actually attempt to start this vehicle if they climb the fence? WILLIAM GASSER: There is ,always a possibility. One would have to be extremely clever and have a truckload of batteries in order to do that. MR. CHAIRMAN: So it would take a phenomenal amount of batteries to get it going. WILLIAM GASSER: Most of our tanks are kept at an absolute minimal amount of fuel because I have stagnation problems with fuel, it kills the vehicles, so when we build it, when we have certain vehicles that run we make our jerry can run through the local gas station. We'll run them for the day, we'll run them out if at ali possible. They'll be less gasoline or diesel fuel in any vehicle than in the local mini bike. OK, I guess you're talking of four gallons at most, right? That's all that's in them because it's detrimental to these vehicles. MR. CHAIRMAN: So, we assume that any fanatical person that attempted to start so~nething and attempted to drive it down the road or through a house or whatever the case might be wouldn't get too far? WILLIAM GASSER: He'd have to be real cleaver to manipulate it. Also, we, most of the vehicles are static and they have been drained, OK, it's only I would say approximately 25% of the infliction and even less of a percent of the outside vehicles that are under their own motor power - probably the ones you've seen. Page 64 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. As for the fence, I'll direct it to my Board Members if they have any specific questions. The only other thing that I will mention is that I cannot reiterate the uniqueness of this property and that's of course the uniqueness of zoning in general. We have seen parcels as small as 1800 sq. ft. in this town that have had houses on them, and we've seen tracks of land in excess of 100 acres. There's no doubt in my mind, I mean that have been before us you know for one reason or another even if it's a wider area or whatever the case might be - But there's no doubt that because of the way that this particular piece of property lies and its shape, that it's not unique. I could not agree with you more. It's absolutely mind-boggling you know , how unique it is and I could not agree with you more. I have no idea if that has any positive or negative effect. ~ Certainly, it has a negative effect in reference to the moving of vehicles because of the narrowness of the property but, let's see what develops throughout the hearing. Does anybody have any questions of the applicant or his attorney at this point? MEMBER VILLA: No, just my question, you say your fence exceeds the height limits and on top of that you've got double barbed wire. How's the liability factor come in on that? You're trying to keep people out, yet it's right on a right-of-way and as a lawyer how does this, how does the liability factor come in here? GREG BLASS: Well, it's not, it doesn't constitute a hidden trap which would incur liability on the part of the property owner and something that even a trespasser would not recognize or see but Page 65 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals They would be substantial it process. because it is apparent and out in the open, it is our position that it actually does not cause liability but protects the property owner from claims of injuries by a trespasser to try to traverse it. The trespasser would be undertaking the risk knowingly. Whereas, if it were hidden and in a sense of what they call a bear-trap kind of protection for the property then in that event then the liability to the owner would be serious, but we think that it's open. It's a very apparent display a trespasser would recognize it. Having to climb up to get to it would take extraordinary steps to perform the trespass. what you would call contributorially negligent to a. not total degree if they hurt themselves in the MEMBER VILLA: Now, you're only 6 foot 6, you really don't have to take extraordinary measures to reach it. I mean, a normal person can reach about 7 or 7-1/2 feet. GREG BLASS: Right, but they would have to climb to a certain degree or reach or go out of their way whereas if it were a trespasser who didn't have to take any reasonable steps just to go on to the property and encounter something that would injure them if they didn't, that was apparent to them, that was not out to the open, then it would be a serious problem. In this case, it's well above the ground height and that it is visible to be what it's known to be. We think that there would be no liability to cause this problem. MEMBER VILLA: OK. Page 66 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Anybody else have any questions of Mr. Blass? (none) OK, let's see what develops, thank you. Is there anybody would like to speak in favor of this application? Yes, sir, could you come up, and, well, unless it's going to be brief. BOB HOPKINS: My name is Bob Hopkins, resident of Cutchogue; also Fourth Division Commander for the County of Suffolk for the American Legion. Military artifacts and things like that stand in people's mind differently. Coming from a military stand point, I think the Foundation, of course there always seems to be terminology. Is the Foundation a museum. Is it a business. The Foundation as they call themselves is a unique opportunity in this area. The people that aren't military sometimes look at these pieces of equipment as dangerous and they always think of warfare. You think of warfare, or war machines. It's not the machines. It's the governments. It's not, "get rid of warfare, or get rid of a warfare machine." It's, why don't we get rid of government. They're the ones that declare war. It's not the machinery. These things mean many different things if you're in any of the organizations. When Wings comes on, you see the guys from the Air Force. It's something that they flew on. It becomes very touching to them. The guy that was in the Navy, a sister ship of his, or a class of the ship, or a number of his ship, becomes very touching. In the Army, the artifacts that they have there become very touching to the veteran especially some of the older veterans, the kids, the military bust, all of this equipment means very much to people. Again, it is a very unique situation no matter how you look at it. Page 67 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals As far as now it has to be designed to meet the Military and the United States Government by trying to get this to conform to normal zoning and laws of the community it's got to be very tough in listening to some of the things that you people have to listen to tonight. I don't know what you get paid but it isn't enough. But, it is a unique situation that we suffer through with schools and everything else, but as a veteran and a member of an organization of the county we sure do wish that you would go over these things and think them over very deeply. Thank you very much. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Ok, we'll move on. Yes, sir. ROBERT SATTIER (no spelling given): Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Robert Sattier. For the past eight years I've chosen to spend my Sundays and much of my other free time as a member of the Tank Museum's crew. I've chosen to do this because I feel a two-fold obligation. First, I feel obligated to preserve and honor sacrifices and deeds of those who created our nation's history and secondly of equal importance, to educate the youth of this area about the history and those who made it. These two purposes, commemoration and education are what make it the philosophy that defines the activities of the tank museum and all of the individuals who labor there. I would just like at this time like to challenge those present who have children in Junior High School or High School to conduct a little experiment. Ask them to identify the following ten names. Yorktown, Gettysburg, San Juan Hill, Yapgon Forest, Guam Canal, Bastogne, Auschwits, Chosen Reservoir, Kaison, and Kuwait. Try to identify them yourselves. Page 68 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals These ten names have two things in common. Firstly, they were places where many Americans fought and died; and secondly, they are commemorated in one way or another by displays in the museum. If you or children cannot get at least eight correct, then I submit we owe to them and the Americans who have fought and died in these places to show that the institution of such as the tank museum is supported and maintained. To do less would be to tribulalize the sacrifices of those from the past such as some of these gentlemen here as well as to condemn our children to a repetition of the savage and bellicose mistakes of that past. I've over the past ten years also been fortunate enough to travel those parts of the world where I've been able to visit museums of a similar nature to this tank ~nuseum. The Town of Southold is very fortunate that it possesses within its border a museum that equals or surpasses in both quality and uniqueness of collection. Museums of its type of such places as DeCurshe and Luxembourg and Bastogne, Belgian, both of which are considered world-class collections. Indeed, this tank museum has in its collection items not even found in the coilections of the Patton Museum at Ft. Knox, Kentucky, or even U.S. Army's Museum at Aberdeen, Maryland. It seems appropriate that this hearing is occurring on today's date because 50 years ago today a 25-year old GI from Brooklyn was freezing in a foxhole in a place called Saint Fifth. For over three weeks he and several thousands of GIs were fighting what was to become the greatest battle ever fought by American Troops. He had not eaten a hot meal in over two weeks because his division kitchen company had been captured and then Page 69 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals massacred ten miles away in a place called Mountain. His Unit, the 9th Armored Division, two months later was to make history at another faraway place Ramogue in Germany, when they became the first military units in supporting his army to cross the Rhine into the heart of Germany. Several years ago a veteran of this unit, this particular veteran, visited tile Tank Museum with his grandchildren. He was able to show them a half track like the one he commanded in World War II. The rifle he carried for four years, the uniform just like the one he wore and much of the equipment he carried during those terrible times. One thing, however, causes me to pause and reflect in silence for a mo~nent, hanging above the ceiling above him was a battle scared Ninth Armored Division flag. He told his grandchildren that he hadn't seen one of them since 1945 and hadn't thought there were any left around anymore since the unit had been disbanded shortly after the war. At that moment his grandchildren saw a side of him they had not seen before and in that moment, they all became a little closer. How do I know these things? Because that veteran was my father, and those grandchildren were my two sons. In the eight years I've been donating my Sundays to the Tank Museum, I've witnessed many such moments; and as tile survival and it is that which keeps me coming back every week. By contributing to the survival of the perpetuation of tile museum, I feel that I am paying off some of the debt this country owes to veterans such as my father as well as demonstrating a commitment to them that future generations will not forget the sacrifices with the passage of time. This museum is a collection of historical artifacts which taken on Page 70 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southo]d Town Board of Appeals their own are just things. They only become meaningful when the human element is added and the placing of human contexts on to these artifacts is what the museum does. I respectfully ask the Board to take these things into consideration wllen rendering the decision, and I thank the Board for its patience and attention. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. (Pause for secretary changed tape in machine.) WILLIAM MACOMBER: Good evening, I am VFW Commander, William Macomber, Mattituck Memorial Post 1117. The American Armored Foundation is here for all of the public, veteran and civilian alike. The military artifacts and paraphernalia on display at the American Armored Foundation is a remembrance of all service men and women that fought and died for our country - our country's freedom. This is part of our American History. I'm sure if you check with the Administration, Administrators of the American Armored Foundation, Bill and Karen Gasser, that you will find they have had visitors from all over the Country. Veterans, Boy Scouts, R.O.T.C., C.A.P. and other organizations. We must remember visitors coming to our community benefit all. They purchase, gas, lodging and visit our restaurants. We believe that the American Armored Foundation is just as important to our community as any of the other societies in our town. The Railroad Museum, the Sailing Museum, the Historical Society. Ibelieve that it is something that is very beneficial to our community. Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Sir. Yes, Rick. Page 71 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals RICHARD MILLER: I'm Richard Miller, past Commander of Riverhead VFW, member of the American Legion of Mattituck, and Commander of American Armored Vehicles Association. We want to support Bill Gasser, and I think the him. All the members that's going to hurt the town owes whatever support they can give of the VFW were into this. It's nothing public. It's a museum that's the best on the east coast. I just think the town should support whatever they can do for Bill Gasser. Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Ok, we'll move over to the opposite side. I'm going to ask if anybody would like to speak against this application or these applications? I should point out that I doubt if we're going to close this hearing or the hearing on these three applications tonight. CARMELA BORELLI: Ok. MR. CHAIRMAN: We may have to digest this and then come back and close it at the next hearing so, this will give you the opportunity to review this, Mr. Blass. CARMELA BORELLI: I would like to address before I get into a synopsis of what is ill that brief, just to address a couple of things that were said tonight. I believe that Mr. Blass said that the tower is a POW-MIA Tower and not a gun tower and that it never was a gun tower. I probably know this file better than I know any other file in my office. I can't place exactly where, but in one of this applicant's prior applications somewhere along the line the historic nature of this tower was put in to support the relief requested and it was that it was a gun tower on the Sound used to protect the area Page 72 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals during the war. That is my recollection of what was in there. So, it was not at a POW camp or an MIA in recognition. It was a gun tower. That's the first thing. One of the speakers who spoke said that this museum was like all other museums and that is really not the case because especially of the ones that he mentior~ed he mentioned the Railroad Museum, Seaport Museum and the Historical Society. All of those had a right to be where they were before they were established. This museum does not have a right to be where it is before it was established, so there is a significant difference and in lieu of the people coming to speak other than myself, there is a petition here that is signed by over 70 people who are residents of the Town of Southold who are residents of the Town of Southold who are opposed to the applications. I'd like to give you a synopsis of what's in that Brief that you have in front of you and the Statement of Facts in that Brief runs for many pages and the reason it runs for many pages is that the history of this site runs since 1981, and its been illegal since 1981. And I would like to go through that because I think it's very importallt that this Board view the instant applications knowing that anything that's a problem here that this applicant is asking for relief from is self-inflicted. They are self-created hardships because the applicant has chosen to do what he was never allowed to do anywhere along tile line. The property was purchased in 1981. Prior to purchase in November of 1980, this applicant came to this Board and said that he was interested in converting the storage building, the building mind you, not outside-display, the building into a private museum, and he wanted Page 73 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals to discuss it, and this Board advised him that they couldn't render an opinion without an application being before it that was in November of 1980 and then he bought the property in 1981. MR. CHAIRMAN: What was the property zoned at that time? CARMELA BORELLI: The property was zoned C-Industrial at that time. The portion on Love Lane was ultimately rezoned to LI and then subsequently with the request for a zone change went to HB about a year and a half ago. The portion on County Road, because it's like a, the portion on County Road 48 was C also, then rezoned to RO (interrup ted ). MR. CHAIRMAN: So it's all HB? CARMELA BORELLI: It's all and then to HB with the zone change that HB right now, right. It's our contention that this applicant knew that the property was not zoned for the use to which he intended it. To put it, as is evidenced by the fact that he came to this Board prior to purchase to want to discuss it. This is a Board that deals with variances from the Code which means that he had to know it wasn't zoned for what he wanted to do with it because he came here before he bought it. Second thing is that he bought it from George Penny. 1 would assume that Mr. Penny knew what the property was zoned. He also had a real estate broker involved in it, and I think if you put those three things together you have to know that this applicant knew in 1981 that he couldn't do what he did with this piece of property. After he bought it, that's when he started placing the armored vehicles on it. Now we can into a great debate as to whether we call them war Page 74 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals machines which I had called them and/or whether you call them historical artifacts. That's really not the point of what this hearing is about. The point of this hearing is about the zoning code of the Town of Southo]d and the violation of that zoning code. In the fall of 1988 the applicant installed the gun tower at the Love Lane entrance. Complaints were made to the Building Department. On September 20, 1988, the applicant was informed by the Building Department that it was in violation of the code and that he needed site plan approval. The applicant's attorney at that time asked the Planning Board by letter if the tower required site plan approval and if you take a look at the exhibit, it's exhibit 5, you'll note that the attorney advised the Planning Board that 15 parking spaces were available at all times at the site. Now, that's contrary to what really has gone on since then and now the applicant is using the fact that the Planning Board wants him to put five parking spaces there as an excuse to get a variance from the setback requirements. The Building Department wrote to the Planning Board in January of 1989, that the site had multiple violations. The Building Inspector said that he didn't order remediation but he was giving the party an opportunity to remedy it. I only mention that at this time because the same rationale was recently used by the current Building Inspector with regard to my demands over the past 2-1/2 years that some kind of enforcement of the violations go on, and the last response that I got was that they wanted to give the applicant some time for remediation. It took this applicant five years from the time he was given the first opportunity to remedy to act. In Page 75 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, ][995 Southoid Town Board of Appeals February of 1989, the Planning Board determined that site plan approval was required, and the applicant was so informed. Two years past and nothing happened. Then, in February of 91, the applicant asked to submit, was asked to submit an application for site planning. His attorney at the time requested a waiver because operation of the site had not changed in over ten years. Of course, he neglected to add that it was illegal for over ten years but he asked for a waiver on tile basis that it was there. In March of 91, the attorney was advised that an application was expected within 30 days or the matter would be turned over to the Ordinance Inspector, and the Planning Board responded to that attorney's statement that there was no problem at this site until this recent request for site plan approval by informing him of tile fact that it was improper for ten years and that the applicant had been so informed of that fact in the past. That's exhibit 10 if you're looking for it. In August of 91, the applicant finally sought and received the Notice of Disapproval but he didn't file an application until February 1992. But, on February 25th of 92, the application to this Board was returned because it was incomplete. The letter from the ZBA contains a reference to a preexisting use asking for substantiation of a preexisting use and inference can be drawn from that is that the applicant had erroneously informed the ZBA at that time that this was preexisting, non-conforming, which it was not. The returned application for a variance -this is in August of 91, was never renewed and site plan approval was never pursued. Page 76 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals In May of 92 instead, this applicant sought a zone change. The application for a zone change was not on the applicant's own initiative. It was because the then Town Attorney called for an immediate resolution of the site's problems and I quote "because I cannot sit idly by and allowing known illegal use to continue within the town". MR. CHAIRMAN: What was the date on that, Carmela? CARMELA BORELLI: That was May 1992, it's Exhibit 15. On September 22nd, '93, the applicant received the conditional zone change, which is exhibit 16 in there, which specifically stated in number 5, that the zone change was not to be considered the granting of any variance and that was because it, the record was replete of the fact that there were multiple violations at this site. And in fact the town's own environmental consultant had said that there were many violations at the center. My client just informs me tonight that one of the conditions on here was that they had to put screening on the fencing that runs between their properties and they had installed the stuff that goes in and out on a chain link fence, but my client advised me tonight that the entire fence still has not been totally put down. The front section of that fence doesn't have any screening, it's just still there, open. In April of 94, the applicant applied to this Board for a variance in regard to existing signs. As you all undoubtedly recall, I opposed that application at the time and in the brief that was submitted at that time, I pointed out in Point 1, that there were many violations at this site and the applicant was only coming before you at that time for one and that Page 77 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals was why I objected to the three different applications here because it appeared to me that it was another attempted segmenting of what was going on and breaking it down into little pieces so that you didn't really get the feel for what you were being asked to grant. MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you still objecting to that? CARMELA BORELLI: Mr. Blass says that he, it's OK with him if you consider them all at once. I mean, I object to the fact that you consider them individually. If you're going to decide them all at the same time and we're arguing them all at the same time, then obviously you're not considering them individually. You know about all of them. MR. CHAIRMAN: The question is if we, if we took them individually, there would be such redundancy and interrelation or intercorrelation that it's easier sometimes to deal with them on that basis. CARMELA BORELLI: I mean since we're arguing them all at the same time and the Board is aware of them, then that's fine. I'll withdraw the objection. At that meeting on that prior variance, if you will recall it, it came up, I know, I have a (interrupted). MR. CHAIRMAN: Can I just ask a question before you get to that? CARMELA BORELLI: Sure. MR. CHAIRMAN: Hold that thought. MS. BORELLI: Sure. MR. CHAIRMAN: What prompted the prior Town Board to grant the Hamlet Business Zoning as opposed to any other type of zoning? Does anybody have any idea? Page 78 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals CARMELA BORELLI: You mean why did they grant an HB? I think they asked for HB. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is that what you asked for? MRS. GASSER: No. The Town Attorney, Harvey (Arnoff) told us that is the only zone that museums were allowed in, so he felt that we should go to HB so, we went to HB. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. CARMELA BORELLI: At that hearing for that variance at the time for the signs and the fence, I stated that there were other violations at this site. The applicant denied at that time that there were other violations and the Building Inspector as a matter of fact confirmed to your Board that there were no other violations at tile site. That's what he told thetn. That prompted my letter in April of 94 to the Town Attorney asking in essence, what's going on here? Everybody says there's violations at this site. The Building Inspector, ill fact -- this Board then wrote to the Building Inspector and said, tell us whether there are any other violations. It eventually got cleared up and there were other violations at the site. This Board conditionally granted the prior request for a variance and on May 16th of 94, the Planning Board advised the applicants that they couldn't proceed with the site plan approval because there were other violations at the site, that they has to come here for a variance. And they have now filed this request for a variance from the fence height, the tower setback and the fact that the code requires that there be no open display - that the museu~n has to be in an enclosed building. None of the people who have Page 79 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals spoken in support of this application have addressed the basic items that this applicant must show in order to get a variance. The applicant must show practical difficulties. Now I know that the practical difficulties test has been codified in 267-B of the Town Law but, there is a recent 1994 case decision which is quoted in that brief that says that 267-B even though it doesn't say practical difficulties, that's what it means. It means practical difficulties, and this applicant has done nothing to show you that there is practical difficulty. Now granted the shape of the property is unique and granted it is only 50 feet wide and granted that the Planning Board wants them to put in parking spaces, but everything that exists on that site was put there by this applicant over a period of 14 years, illegal, improperly and now he's saying, "Well it's always been there. I'm not going 'to change the Character of the neighborhood. It's always been there so you have to give this to me because what am I doing? Am I doing anything different than has been done?" That is, it's ludicrous. ! mean, it's such a travesty of justice as to make you stand here - I lose words. I find it hard to describe how you can do something wrong for 14 years and then say well you should let me do it, because I've always been doing it. I've done it for 14 years and I don't think they meet the test. They haven't shown you an economic hardship. They haven't shown you that they can't either move the tower or gee, remove the tower. The tower should of never been put there. It didn't have a building permit when they installed it; they didn't have site plan approval when they put it in. Take it out. That's the way to cure the Page 80 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, ]995 Southold Town Board of Appeals illness. If they can't get it back to the setback requirements. And with regard to the fencing and military requirements, military requirements don't take precedence over. this Board's ability to rule on this. The military can tell them whatever they want to tell them to do but the zoning, this Board rules as to what is allowed with inside tbe code and that fence is too high. In addition to which they put a surveillance camera. Now it's mounted on top of the six foot fence that has the barbed wire on top of it. There's now a camera on top of that on the side that is adjacent to my client's property, and we can't even figure out what it's taking pictures of because it faces towards us. I mean, so we haven't got the faintest idea what he's doing for security purposes but, it's up there. The Planning Board in addition has said that on that fence there is an electrical conduit wire running - which it shouldn't be there. And so that's there. The fencing is too high. The way to protect the equipment and to secure it from vandals and not to have someone attempt to climb the fence to get in to start the tank even if they could start tbe tank, is to put them inside a building which is what a museum is supposed to be. It's supposed to be in an enclosed building. If they comply with the ]aw, they could put the displays inside a building and they could take down the barbed wire fencing a~d they could get rid of the fencing csuse they make them put a lock on the door. And they could put a security system on the building and they would meet the code. The 267 of the Town Law tells you that there are certain items that an applicant must show in order to get an area variance. This Page 81 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals Board in making the determination must consider whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby property will be created by granting or determining area variance. Now, you can't tell me that there isn't going to be a change in the character of the neighborhood because it has existed for 14 years. It wasn't supposed to be there for 14 years so you can't use what you've done illegally as an excuse for what you want to do now. This section also says whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some other method feasible for the applicant to pursue other than the area variance. Yes, they can put the displays inside a building. They can move the tower so that it meets the setback requirement and then they can get rid of the fencing and then they don't need the variances that they've asked you for. It also says, whether the requested area variance is substantial I think it's substantial. This is a large lot with an open display of historic artifacts. That doesn't make any difference. I mean it's certainly substantial what they're asking you to do. They're saying you have to allow this outside storage when it's supposed to be inside a building. The next one is whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. I see that the measures that you have put for remediation under SEQRA are attempting to attack that particular question. The last one is whether the alleged difficulty was self- created. Which consideration shall be relevant to the decision of the Board of Appeals but shall not necessarily preclude a granting of Page 82 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals an area variance. That is monumental. This is a site that started out in 1981, in the mind of the applicant in 1980 and he knew it was improper. He knew it was illegal and it's certainly self created. Now, there's case law in the memo that holds it, that shows it when it's this flagrant and abuse, then self-created hardship just is a basis for denial. The last paragraph C of 267, says, the Board of Appeals in the granting of area variances shall grant the minimum of variance. That it shall deem necessary and adequate and at the same time preserve an protect. I call this Board's attention to the fact that the clause in the law, says, "shall grant the minimum variance." That's not a word in law that gives any leeway. It means you must. You "must" is a command word. You must grant the minimum variance if you're going to do it. This applicant hasn't come anywhere close to the practical difficulties which is the test that must be applied and as a result of that an area variance can not be granted because they haven't met the criteria set forth in either the case law or in 267B. MR. CHAIRMAN: Could you supply us with the case law. CARMELA BOI~ELLI: Copies of the cases? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: us copies of all of them please? MS. BORELLI: Sure. BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: All ten of them. Could you give Thank you. MS. BORELLI: Sure. You want the ones on that particular topic? BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Referenced in the memo. Mentioned in the memo. Page 83 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, the ones that you're mentioning in the brief. CARMELA BORELLI: Sure. Now that we have computers everything is possible. Unless you have any questions--. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, I was going to say something, but I think it would be redundant at this point. I do want to say this, and it has absolutely nothing to do with this application. In 1985 we had a very nice lady that owned a house on the Sound, and she could only get to her house via a right-of-way which she thought that she was using. In the interiln, she was actually transversing a farmer's farm, and he then sought to stop her by the use of a gun, and this has gone on from 1985 to 1994. She was very nice and so was the farmer nice but he was very adamant that this happened in this town, this is a current, reoccurring problem. I swore that, and I shouldn't swear on the record I assume, that I would take care of it. That we would put this to bed eventually. That the farmer and the entire family wouldn't have to come in again and that she wouldn't have to come in again. In the interim, she had rebuilt the house and people had to take construction material so far down this right-of-way and then physically pick it up on their own body and take it and carry it down to the house. I sincerely hope, that we can put this to bed, not today, not tomorrow, but within the next few months. One way or another, alright, so that we don't see these nice don't nice together, hopefully to a certain end. people again, not that we have anything against you, that we see the Amaratti's again and yourself. Because you're all people. But, you know, constructively we're going to work I mean, certainly what you're Page 84 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals saying has a great amount of merit, and I know that you spent long and tireless times trying to say it to us and that was, I assume, the reason for your objection back with the sign permit. So, we're going to attempt to work on that on that mode, and certainly we're going to be dealing with our Town Attorney in the interim when you give us the case laws, and we're going to furnish Mr. Blass with copies of that and then we're going to come back and deal with the aspects of what we have to deal with. CARMELA BORELLI: That will be terrific. MR. CHAIRMAN: And let's hope that 1995 puts that partieular problem, this particular problem to bed. MEMBER DINIZIO: Can I ask a question? MR. CHAIRMAN: Surely. MEMBER DINIZIO: Carmela, I'd just like to ask a question if I could. CARMELA BORELLI: Sure. MEMBER DINIZIO: I'll make a statement I suppose this is. You know, all of your comments concerning the Town and how it has acted in the past ten, fourteen years, are well taken by me. You know, I think that their actions have been consistent, if nothing else. However, being a business man myself, I know that you hate to take a gamble on something that you could kind of grow into and that's what this looks like, this has happened here. Not to say that it's right, OK, but just to say that's how a thought process could evolve and certainly if it was encouraged by non-action and people are supposed to be enforcing the laws, you know, you intend to~ you Page 85 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals could go asleep a little better at night if someone is not knocking on your door all the time. Is there anything that the applicant, I shouldn't say that, that your client specifically, I know it's not going to make her 100% happy, but is there anything specifically that she's objecting to ether than the way the whole case was handled by the Town. I mean, specifically the fence and my belief should be higher than a 4-foot fence, you know, we're talking about a couple other things, setbacks on the commercial piece of property next to a railroad track, you know, I'm trying to put this thing into perspective as to what, why she would go to the trouble of hiring you. OK, there's got to be some reason there besides what you said. CARMELA BORELLI: They like me. (Jokingly) MEMBER D1NIZIO: Well, my purpose would be not to take my money out of the bank to give to you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Could you just hold that thought one second. My statement before, I mentioned the case for 1985 was: Give me a wish list. Now, if your wish list is that, excuse me. MEMBER DINIZIO: No, you're on the right track. MR. CHAIRMAN: That's exactly what I was going to say when I said the word, this may be redundant, OK, and when I went into the Whitney of the 1985 and 1984 situation with the farmer and the lady that owned the right-of-way. Well, the lady that owned the house, If your wish list is that every piece of equipment be placed in a building - that's a pretty tough wish list. CARMELA BORELLI: I certainly would be willing to talk to my clients about a wish list. I must tell you in advance that I got Page 86 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals this request from the Town Board. Give us a wish list. And I gave them a wish list, and we didn't get anywhere near what we wanted on our wish list and even the things that we got have not been complied with yet, like the screening, and the Town Board said s~reening preferably of the vegetation type which would have been pretty at least, so you didn't have to, instead of getting the 'preferably of the vegetation type,' we got those 'whatever you call those little things that go in and out of the chain link fence' wl~ich hasn't even been finished. So, we've done this wish list routine and we didn't get what we wanted, and the applicant didn't even comply with what they were told to do. However, I have more faith in this Board than I had in that Town Board, so, I will talk to my clients about that and certainly get back to the Board. CHAIRMAN: I must apologize for jumping in there. MEMBER DINIZIO: I just want to be specific in that one screening. OK, because I think the property is narrow having to plant evergreens on their property would certainly take away from them. I mean is there any compromise in their paying for evergreens on the other side of the fence? WILLIAM GASSER: MEMBER DINiZIO: WILLIAM GASSER: along the fences. MRS. GLASSER: This before it ali started. Mr. Dinizio, we offered to do that. Yes, well that's why I'm asking her that's why. And we offered to plant Hemlocks specifically all was before all this town stuff started, Page 87 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, CARMELA you know, if you don't mind I'd like to hear it from BORELLI: I really would have to talk to my clients, where we have a chance to go over what are the pros and cons here, so that we can discuss it. I mean, I know that, unsightliness is one of the objections, noise is another. As you heard before there were seven people who came and said that they work there on a Sunday. Now, a Sunday in the summertime is when my clients do a Sunday Brunch - where people sit outside. Now, not only do you have to look at what some may call historical artifacts but you have to listen to historical artifacts as they are moved, as they do things so that, I mean, we're talking about, you know, a big imposition and I agree with you that planting an evergreen may cut down their space but they have been illegal, they weren't supposed to be there, so they weren't supposed to have 50 feet of space. You know, maybe they can use 40 feet or whatever it is. I will talk to them. I would like the opportunity to be able to discuss it with them in depth so that we could .... . MEMBER DINIZ10: Yes, I would just Again, I can certainly sympathize with like to see it go along to. the fact that if you're going to invest this kind of money, and again, in the context of how the Town treated it, OK, in that, you know, maybe it was never encouraged by the Town, but certainly like Mr, Flyn~ stated about, I think, he was insinuating signs. Something as visible as signs, that law can't be enforced, let alone you know Bed & Breakfast in five rooms and two rooms. Whether there would be some Page 88 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals compromise in that. I mean, certainly, maybe they don't start their motors on Sunday until one o'clock or two o'clock. Those kind of, you know I understand, that's certainly if you are serving brunch outside you don't want to have, but along those lines - if you can think along those lines and, you know, I think it would be very constructive in that. I understand that you would have to compromise some and maybe a little bit more than you would like, but perhaps if you're asking for a compromise, we could ask for compromise on this side too. CARMELA BORELLI: What I, in doing that, I mean in discussing that in saying what we're going to do, I have a question which comes into my mind right away. How am I going to be assured that after my clients and I discussed this and we, let's say come up with a wish list that can be worked out. Let's assume we can do that - how am I going to assured that in 1995, this town is going to do what they haven't done since 1981, which is enforce the damn thing, whatever it is that you put into effect. How am I going to be assured? MR. CHAIRMAN: We, to answer that question, we would hope that when the Town Board hires the Code Enforcement Officer, that they are going to hire, that that particular person will have the courage to do so. In all situations, Not necessarily .... CARMELA BORELLI: They're mad at me Jerry. I mean, I write them so many letters about why aren't you doing something, that I get nasty responses in return, but they don't do anything. Page 89 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: Carmela, I couldn't agree with you more. Honestly, but again, I mean for us to give this off the ball, I mean, if it takes some commitment from all of us, maybe then it could happen. But again, I agree with you 100% of what you said, but I see this as not going anywhere other th/kn back here again and going for another ten years or five years, but whatever it is, certainly having a major -- MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, well that's what I'm saying with a lot of money involved. CARMELA BORELLI: To a court MEMBER DINIZIO: Right. MS. BORELLI: Would have to be the next step. MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes. Well most of the things that you stated here tonight were better said in a Court than to us. I mean really can't consider how it was done. CARMELA BORELLI: I'm getting ready. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well that's definitely our concern that if it's remanded to a situation where we're going to be tied up for the next 2-1/2 years with it .... BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: plus, one can lose and the other one win. You don't know who that's going to be, so, it may be a waste of time and money too, or vice versa. CARMELA BORELLI: I'll talk to them, OK. MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Blass. MR. BLASS: Just a minute. Page 90 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals MRS. AMMARETTI: The only reason we have Carmela here to speak for us, is because for a lot of views. We live in the house. This isn't some place we come to on Sundays. That's my home. I'm raising my children there. MR. CHAIRMAN: You also run a business there. MRS. AMMARETTI: Right. And for a lot of you who called and called and no-one listened to him. Really the whole thing came when we tried talking to Mr. Gasser. There's a gun in that tower. He'd go home on Sunday and I had to look out my living room window and see a gun in the tower for months and years on end. There was a gun there, and we asked him to please take that out. If nothing else just take out the gun and eventually that was done. OK, there's been no time so we've been able to speak. I mean threats were made to my son playing basketball in my yard, acct~sations were made and Mr. Gasser called the attorney first and then from that point on it has to be someone who can speak for us and somebody to listen to us. It's our home. MR. BLASS: I'm not going to add much to what I said before except that we are some distortions were made that I'll only address one of them and that is that we're asking the Board as is suggested to allow us to do what we've done because it's been there so long because we illegally did it. We think that the impact on this neighborhood will not be adverse, not because we've been doing it for 14 years, but because the way that part of Love Lane and CR 48 have evolved and the land uses of the contiguous properties including the objectives is such that the museum activity and the Page 91 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals tourist site that is becoming, is harmonious with that area. We never said that we think we should be allowed to do it because we've doing it already. That is putting words into our mouth that were never uttered. Our purpose is to see if this activity cannot only work harmoniously with the community but also with the objective. Our offer to provide screening at our expense still stands and we'll certainly cooperate with the Board's suggestion about some kind of compromises. We're very well into that. Very much so. MR. CHAIRMAN: I guess at this particular point we'll recess the hearing until our next regularly scheduled meeting. What we'll ask Car~nela do, is give us copies of the case so we'll review it with the Town Attorney and in the interim, if there's anything that you're requesting from us that we may have, Mr. Blass, you're welcome to correspondence with our office and --- BOARD SECRETARY KOWALSKI: That hearing is February 1st by the way. It's a Wednesday. MR. BLASS: February 1st, we'll be back here and I'I1 be able to respond more substance I believe to the points that was offered us submission. CARMELA BORELLI: My client wants to know if we're going to be first on the list so - (jokingly) MR. CHAIRMAN: I doubt it. I can go back to the discussion (jokingly). There is some historical background to this. Alright. There is a very nice gentleman that owns a marina in Greenport and he had applied for a storage building. His file started out this large. When we finally finished a year and a half later it took Page 92 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of January 4, 1995 Southold Town Board of Appeals three of us to carry the files in. I'll make a motion recessing that until the next meeting. Thank you very much. (End of hearing). ,e 92 - Hearing Transcript ~,gular Meeting of January 4, 1995 outhold Town Board of Appeals three of us to carry the files in. I'll make a motion recessing that until the next meeting. Thank you very much, (End of hearing). RECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK Town Cterl~, Town of Southold