The URL can be used to link to this page

Home My WebLink AboutZBA-12/07/1994 HEARINGPUBLIC HEARINGS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD December 7, 1994 (7:30 P.M. Hearings Commenced) P R E S E N T: HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER Chairman SERGE J. DOYEN, Member JAMES DINIZIO, JR. Member ROBERT A. VILLA, Member RICHARD C. WILTON, Member LINDA KOWALSKI, Clerk-Assistant to Board INDEX APPLN. # PAGES APPLICANT 4284 4286 4283 4285 4257 4282 4287 THOMAS & ELIZABETH THOMPSON JOEL AND MARGARET LAUBER GAIL DESSIMOZ AND MICHAEL RACZ ELBERT E. LUCE, JR. OSPREY DOMINION CO. AND FREDERICK KOEItLER, JR. CURT W. MEYHOEFER/JOHN AND DOREEN MAZZAFERRO NORTH FORK BEACH CONDOMINIUM 3-7 7-24 24-36 36-38 38-46 46-51 51-63 Page 3 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:35 P.M. Application No. 4284 - THOMAS & ELIZABETH THOMPSON MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for a Variance under Article III, Section 100-33 for permission to locate an accessory garage building in the southerly side yard area, rather than the required rear yard, at premises known as 2890 Bridge Lane, Cutchogue, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-85-2-22. The subject premises is a substandard parcel in this A-C Agricultural Conservation Zone District containing approximately 41,585 sq. ft. in total lot area. (Setback from property lines, when located in a yard area other than a rear yard, stroll be determined by the Board of Appeals.) 1 have a copy of a survey indicating the approximate placement of the house wifieh is somewtmt toward if not toward, more toward the rear yard but certainly close to the center and of which tl~ere appears to be a swimming pool built lengthwise in the rear of the dwelling and the specific pending area for the proposal location of the garage which is the nature of this application tonight and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is (here somebody who would like to be heard? THOMAS THOMPSON: Thomas Thompson. MR. CHAIRMAN: How- do you do Sir? Is there something you'd like to add to the. THOMAS THOMPSON: I~m Thomas Thompson. In reference to the garage, it said on the bottom of the form in reference to rear to the front line, "how much feet". It*s over 200 feet. Page 4 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. And it's 15 feet at the corner from the property line? THOMAS THOMPSON: Right. It can be jogged a little bit enough to work it as you can see the nature of the property. The house is set back 250 ft. off the road and that's why the hill in the front were in the flat, flat part of the area. So, like you say, our front yard is my adjacent neighbor's rear yard, he's basically 125 feet from the road, so I'm still another 125 feet from him and this garage will also be approximately 75 feet from the rear of his house. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. What is the size of the garage? I got 24 x 24. THOMAS THOMPSON: 24 x 24. MR. CHAIRMAN: How many stories? THOMAS THOMPSON: Welt, Pete put a dormer up the side. I'm self-employed and I have him going to put an office upstairs. That's the idea of the .... . MR. CHAIRMAN: What type of utilities are you anticipating in? THOMAS THOMPSON: Business? MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, I'm referring to electric, heat, water, so on and so forth. THOMAS THOMPSON: I'm just going to basically put electric in. I might even, I'm not even sure as far as I haven't got that far yet. Basically now I would say I'm going to be working on over the winter. I have oil heat in the house for my existing structure. I have an LP natural gas stove in the house which has a tank already on the side of the house. Already we've been trying for that Page 5 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 for gas on the stairs. I didn't really know if there was any code or whatever I had to meet with so I really wasn't, I have got that far yet. I'm basically going step by step. There should be plans going out for ( ) to be made for anything basically. MR. CHAIRMAN: The reason why we ask the question about storage is because lhere is a match amount of height that you're required to stay within of which you're probably aware. 18 feet. THOMAS THOMPSON: Basically 18 feet overall. I think it matches the same peek if, I don't know if you bought a new house with house plans basically designed to match the same peek as the other house and if the dormer, I don't know if you look at the dormer it would be facing to the rear of my yard adjoining to the neighbor's yard as well. So they will slope up to a, the roof will slope up which the neighbor would be seeing and the dormer basically faced due east towards the rear of the property of the yard. MR. CHAIRMAN: The nor~nal restrictions that this Board places on these is that it not be used for any type of sleeping purposes. So you're aware of that situation. THOMAS THOMPSON: No, I won't have that. In fact, I would say I'm self-employed and I got an office in the house and I've got kids and I could use a little space and that's basically my intentions of putting a whole new top there. MR. CHAIRMAN: Before you sit down Mr. Thompson we'll ask the Board if they have any questions of this gentleman? We'll see what develops during the hearing. Thank you. Is there anybody who Page 6 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 would like to speak in favor of this application? Sir? BRUCE GRATTAN: Yes, I'm Bruce doors down from Mr. Thompson. So, I up is going to be enhancing the area. Is there anybody, Grattan, and I live four say that anything they put If you look at his home and his yard and surroundings its very, very nice. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Is there anybody else would like to speak? Anybody like to speak against the application? Does anybody want to move on this or do you want to hold it iix abeyance? MEMBER DINIZIO: Not really, I'll make a motion to grant it as applied. I don't know how you feel about water but if he wants to heat it and put electric in there it's fine with me. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. So, we're going with electric and heat. Alright, and that it continue. Would you add to the motion that continue the normal restriction that it not be used as a habitable dwelling and/or for sleeping. MR. DINIZIO: Certainly, I'll second it. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. MR. CHAIRMAN: Merry Christmas. THOMAS THOMPSON: One question. What kind did you say electric was ( ). Of course its going to have electric. As far as heating upstairs you say electric heat is ( ). MEMBER DINIZIO: No, heating is fine. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, we said electric and heating. Page 7 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southo]d Town Board of Appeals THOMAS THOMPSON: Oh! OK. ( specification. Thank you. ) I wasn't sure what kind of 7:42 P.M. Application No. 4286 - JOEL AND MARGARET LAUBER MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for a Special Exception under Article III, Section 100-31B(13) for permission to establish Winery use for the sale of wine produced from grapes primarily grown on the existing Vineyard where the proposed Winery is to be located, to wit: 45470 Main Road, Southold, N.Y.; 1000-75-6-9.7 and 9.6 (combined total: a survey/site plan Peconic Surveyors, County Tax Map Parcel No. 30 acres). I have a copy of indicating the two acre parcel where the Winery to be located and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who would like to be heard concerning this? The Lauber application. BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: Mr. Lauber is here. MR. CHAIRMAN: How are you tonight, Sir? JOSEPH FRISTACHI: I'm Joseph Fristachi. I sent a letter in opposing to the fact that it was not safe for us and children and grandchildren to have a not as much as the winery but details to winery plus the possibility to have a retail store to sell wine right next to our property in the back where we felt it was safe for us to Page 8 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals be in Southold Town to begin with. The idea to have a retail store right next to us gets us really upset. MR. CHAIRMAN: You're the gentleman with the white shingle house, a split level type? Fairly new split level type house? ANGELA FRISTACHI: (Response inaudible). MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. I'm not confusing that with Amando's house, right? That's on the other side? This is on the other side of Amando? On the west side of Amando? JOSEPH FRISTACHI: I'm west of Amando. MR. CHAIRMAN: With the garage that faces the road? We'll certainly take all of your feelings into consideration here. We just want you to be aware that under Special Permits, Special Permits are permitted as a matter of right as long as they meet certain criteria. In this particular case this Board in tile past has never turned down an application for a Winery as long as it conforms. The concern is one of I mean, I'm not putting words in your mouth Sir, but I think one of the concerns would be the amount of traffic and I think that's one of the concerns that you have. JOSEPH FRISTACHI: You see that's what happened to Pindar. Some day you want to pass from there. MR. CHAIRMAN: We're very well aware of that. JOSEPH FRISTACHI: ( ), but this happened to my back yard. You can see from the blue print you have a place where they would park cars and buses. BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: How far is the retail area from the house, I'm just curious? Page 9 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 MR. CHAIRMAN: Well the depth of the lot just getting to the point where you make the turn is 276.95 feet. So, his house is over in here. As I said we will certainly take it into consideration in the granting of this application and the required screening that should be involved. You're very welcomed to sit in on the continuation of the of the meeting if we go into deliberation after this meeting tonight. You're welcomed to stay and it doesn't necessary mean that you can comment but, you can stay. You can listen to the entire. JOSEPH FRISTACHI: Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: You're welcomed. MEMBER DINIZIO: Sir, can I ask you a question? Would there be anything at all that would help to elevate your fears positioning the building in a different way or a screening, or anything that you know might help us or help you to perhaps live with this better? JOSEPH FRISTACHI: I have to look into this. What I've tried to do is to oppose to this because of the, be afraid to have all that traffic right next to the property in back of the property. MEMBER DINIZlO: Yeah, well what I'm just getting at is, are there any other alternatives at all. You know that you may want, or ask us to perhaps you know screen the property better or move the building somewhat, just to help you know, you, and make it better. JOSEPH FRiSTACHI: They could move the building or redo the blueprint where the parking would be a different area, they have enough property to do so. MEMBER DINIZlO: Right. JOSEPH FRISTACHI: Right next to them, but ..... Page 10 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER DINIZIO: Well that's why I'm asking the question. If you know, if you're just wholly opposed to having a winery or if there are some or if the winery can have some mitigation. JOSEPH FRISTACHI: If the winery would have nothing to do with my property it's a traffic situation. Whatever they have to do I can say. I'm might have to see a professional help to tell me what to do or what to ask for. I'm not here to discuss a blueprint or what they plan what they have to do. MEMBER DINIZIO: OK. Well, I just, like I said, I just thought if you had an idea or you know in someway you could give us an idea of what you'd like to see there. JOSEPH FR1STACHI: I have to look into that. MEMBER DINIZIO: OK. Thank you very much. MR. CHAIRMAN: If before we close this hearing you feel that you may require some professional assistance we will hold the hearing over until January to allow you to deal with that. Think about it, you know, and before we close just let me know. Alright. JOSEPH FRISTACHi: OK, thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Going back to the applicant, Sir, would you, could I ask you to use the mike and how are you, it's nice to meet you. Is there anything you'd like to state for the record? JOEL LAUBER: Well, you have the application. I might try to at least allay Mr. Fristachi's concerns, the traffic out here. JOSEPH FRISTACHI: Yeah, nothing against you. JOEL LAUBER: I know, I know. Page ]1 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals JOSEPH FRISTACHI: and thought it'd be quite out here. JOEL LAUBER: For what it's worth, I don't about Pindar which is a 70,000 as you know, bought the house in this town with my kids thiuk we're talking 70,000 case winery. We're talking about a couple thousand cases. This is a very small operation and it's not planned to be much larger than 5 or 6,000 cases which is about the size of Gristina, Lenz, Bedell and for what it's wol~th since there is no date around that I'm aware of its official I've talked to people who run those case hangers to try to get some sense of traffic after we've only allowed them a dozen, I think, parking spaces and frankly I have no interest iix being in the retail business either. It's simply something that has to be done I think as you develop this business and the best I can get is that if you were to strike an average, an average Saturday lets say, you're just out on weekends are you not? If you strike an average Saturday, somewhere through summer, and including the fact that nobody's there now and nobody's going to be there until May and then it doesn't really build until September, October, the good guess I got is that a good Saturday is a maybe 115 and 200 people for a 7 - 8 hour period. If you figure that at 15 or 20 people an hour then you figure an average I guess at least 2 people to a car, you're talking about 10 cars in and out of Long Island on an average Saturday, and that's during the weekend. That's the best information I have and that's all we're really intending insofar as where that parking lot is, it's where it is for a reason, it's a fair distance from Mr. Fristachi's house. There is another house along Page 12 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 the Thomas' house. We plan to screen it, from the road, that's from the houses that are adjacent to our neighbors. Like I say, tops it will have a dozen cars in it. There's a spot on that site plan for tour buses. I have no great illusions about that nor any interest in tour buses and it's way on the other side from the ( ). So, to what for that's worth, believe me, I have no intentions of putting ( ) with Pindar. I would like very much to sell wine to restaurants and liquor stores. That's really my business. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any reason why you chose to put the parking on that side? JOEL LAUBER: Well the architect chose it. The reason he chose it were the side lines for one. There's a road or the, essentially there's a crush pad there and the road as it comes off the main road hooks around to the crush pad which is on that side of the property, the building is there and to, we, we tried to do is use that, that road and the parking just off of that. It could be on, rather than move it on to the north side of the building which doesn't have any, any appropriate space plus that building is like a potato barn, so there's earth around three sides of the barn. It gets to be a pretty steep grade, you have a parking lot that would be kind of a slant right against that building on the north side. So, tile side lines, [ mean after all we're trying to build an attractive building here as it will be quite attractive and we'll landscape it and what have you and the idea is to get people out of their cars and let them see the building. Not to ge? out of their cars and their nose up against the wall. So, it's an architectural decision. Page 13 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: At this particular time what do you anticipate in reference to, you're certainly going to utilize the building as it exists at this time for both the preparation and the tasting. Right? Now, for plan expansion, where are you going to go? JOEL LAUBER: Well, I have an approval from the Select Farm Committee of Suffolk who only develop rights. To put an agricultural building, 2,000 sq. ft. agricultural building way back on that property. There's a well back there and you can use that for storage for the farm equipment, getting things of that nature. So, I can move all of that off of that two acre parcel and that two acre parcel has lines on it now. It has the building that is there that will be expanded to take care of the tasting and retail sales and some production of wine. As we expand, if we expand, we will simply decide to put another building on if we have to or add on to that building. Those plans are not in place at this point, there's no need. At that point I'll probably have to go in the other direction I guess. Again, I'd leave that to an architect. MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, the two acre site is in yours and your wife' name? JOEL LAUBER: That's right. MR. CHAIRMAN: And the development rights piece is in yours and your wife's name? JOEL LAUBER: That's right. Somebody said that was separate in having those rights but still alive. That was the last owner. Page 14 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals interested in retail ( certain phased in pace. frankly knock the gun year's harvest. If new issue I've, I'm, ~995 harvest which Septe~nber and begin MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, lets ask any of the Board Members if they have any specific questions on how you want to deal with this aspect of parking. MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, well not parking, but the question I have is, that where are you going to be producing wine because all along the Code is asking basically for a retail store here instead of a winery, right? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, yeah, but he's got a lower half which I assume he's going to produce it. JOEL LAUBER: We rendered that omission. MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, I saw some correspondence back and forth between the Planning Board .... . JOEL LAUBER: Can I ask you a question very frankly? If I had my druthers, let me put it this way, our intentions is to make wine there, it always has been, I have no other interest. I'm not ) on highway. I would like to do it at a That was my plan. I would of liked to to produce wine until 1995 harvest, next it's the wish of this Board or it's a critical I'm willing to begin the production with the would be the grapes that we harvest next to produce. I will not produce 100% there, there are very few people who are producing 100% in grapes anyway in one place and you know their bottling with mobile bottling lines and everybody is kind of a sharing and that's what we would do. Page 15 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: Well, the question was because basically the Code specifically allows to establish wineries but does not allow to establish retail store. JOEL LAUBER: I understand and that's why I'm willing to, I didn't know that, as I say, that's my intention and if it's necessary I will begin, that's why you have a plan there. There are any number of ways to process wine, not the least of which is and perhaps the most important is to set the middle portion which is after it ferments. Its got to be aged, in the barrels, its got to be stirred, its got to be racked, pulled in and out of the barrels, with pumps, and its got to be bottled and that aspect I have more than enough room to do that. MR. CHAIRMAN: In this present building? JOEL LAUBER; In the building, yeah, on the lower level. And that's what I'm intending. Again, we will be making several thousand gallons of wine, cases of wine next year and 1 have sufficient room there to make at least two-thirds of that in that building line. MEMBER VILLA: So the other third or so, or half, somebody else would produce for you and then you would just store it? JOEL LAUBER: Yeah. MEMBER VILLA: Take care of it, or they would even bottle it, just case it for you? JOEL LAUBER: Well, has bottling out here. the bottling, you know, it's kind of, nobody Very few people have bottling here. Its five or six vineyards that share one bottling line, there are mobile lines tbat come up from the south, pull up alongside your vineyard and Page 16 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals bottle your wine and that we would take advantage of that. My wine this year was bottled by another winery which is again an available option to all of us. MEMBER VILLA: The second question was along the lines that you asked, Jerry. You have two acres here and the winery basically says, it's suppose to be on ten acres. Now, the way it is in two separate deeds, this actually, this two acres could be sold off theoretically and leave the vineyard to void of this piece of property. BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: Not, not with the winery though. Mr. Lauber and I had talked about that. You were agreeable to giving a covenant, right, with the rest of the land saying that the winery would not be sold? JOEL LAUBER: Absolutely. i have no interest ..... MEMBER VILLA: Alright. So we're basically we're tying the two pieces of property together. JOEL LAUBER: Sure. I, I wasn't aware you had to separate them out. I guess that's how Suffolk County must of done it. MEMBER VIL.LA: No, our Planning Board has that weird concept when you're selling development rights basically the development rights are almost like an overlay and it was always my opinion that you didn't need to separate it out. All you had to do was differentiate a piece that yoh weren't selling so that you could eventually build something on it if you wanted to, but our Planning Board always wanted it in separate deeds. Page 17 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals JOEL LAUBER: MEMBER VILLA: Well, if you need a covenant from me that says I never could understand because then you could sell them and they would be, it would be gone. BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: It would be tied together. MEMBER VILLA: OK, as long as it's tied together I have no problem. JOEL LAUBER: Absolutely. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Doyen. MEMBER DOYEN: What about storing the wine inside barrels? The wine is going to be in the barrels and you're going to store two, three, four years, whatever. Where, where is this storage area? JOEL LAUBER: In that lower level. It's 1300 sq. ft. MEMBER DOYEN: Is that enough to store your store wine? JOEL LAUBER: Oh] Yeah. Production for several years? You mean case wine? (People talking at one time). MEMBER DOYEN: JOEL LAUBER: I'm sorry. MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBER DOYEN: In the barrel. Your going to age it in one year and then just, you don't have a storage problem? JOEL LAUBER: No, no, well, white wine you, you, my white wine ls being sold now. MEMBER DOYEN: JOEL LAUBER: next year. It was harvest late, late, last year. No rest, no --? Well, rest you have to leave in the barrels for Page 18 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 MEMBER DOYEN: Well that's what I was wondering. If there's enough storage space. If this building was large enough to store? JOEL LAUBER: It is now and if our production got to a greater number of cases two, three, four years down the road, the option of that would mean are several. One is to add a building and the second which is quite available to us now is the commercial storage facility in Riverhead which is ( ). Most of the wineries are using some of that ..... MEMBER DOYEN: ( ) you're still use up that year which you would (Lauber and Doyen speaking at the same time) JOEL LAUBER: Yeah, the space that Dave, the building that Dave Mudd just sold for ( ), You know the one I mean in Riverhead on 1057 MR. CHAIRMAN: 105, yeah. OK, how do we resolve the situation of the parking concerning the neighbors? MEMBER VILLA: I don't know. If the gentleman here wants to, you know, if they can get together fine. You said you'd hold it off if the gentleman wants professional help, I don't know, its. MR. CHAIRMAN: My suggestion would be Mr. Lauber that you come back to us with an alternate plan on the parking during this next 30 day period. It's actually less than 30 days because on meeting is on January 4th. JOEL LAUBER: Well, let me suggest something to you, if I may. You may have a letter. I just got one today from the Planning Department. On their review of what is now I guess the former application that I made on the site plan, I think you have, it's Page 19 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals dated November 22nd, they have requested, the letter says, that they would like me to move the parking area to the south. Now their reason has nothing to do with traffic, it has to do with a as I understand it, avoiding of the possibility of pedestrian of somebody getting out of their car and then having to cross the parking lot itself, to get into the building. So, if what you see there ( ), so that the parking lots were facing the other way, that would avoid the problem that they've raised here. They would get out of their cars and wouldn't have to cross the parking lot. Now, I must tell you that the architect and I don't disagree with them, think that's not something that they have the right to ask for. I mean they could ask for, we'd like talk about it. I took the trouble today to drive around, you know, the vineyards and the wineries that I know pretty well, particularly those that are brand new, like Pellegrini and Gristina. And I'm a little surprised because their property lots are exactly as that one is. People get out of the cars and then walk across the parking lots to get into the building. The reason architects do that is because of the side lines. They want people to be able to see the building. Is it a possible compromise? I think it is. We can talk about it. You know, I'd be glad to speak about it. I don't know whether it will help Mr. Fristachi, it will move the parking lot, well you can tell, 30. The ears will be moved 30 feet to the south. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, can you show us that on the plan on January 4th, even if it's just pending? Page 20 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals JOEL LAUBER: Sure, I just like not to keep doing plans at $400 a parcel. MR. CHAIRMAN: I understand. BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: We should give it to Mr. Fristachi too though, before tilen. MR. CHAIRMAN: So he can reflect upon it. Just wait one second, I'1t be right with you. JOEL LAUBER: I'm going to have to something, unless, unless I can convince the Planning Board that this is not something that has to be done. I'll certainly give you a sketch. I'm not going to go back to tile architect. MR. CHAIRMAN: Just, just, let me say this to you. It doesn't make sense to not deal with both Boards at the same time because we have a second application tonight on a, on a, the same type of situation with a some more winery of course, of, of, a much larger size and this has been going on now for about 6 weeks to 2 months. OK, and we hope that we're going to be able to put it bed tonight. JOEL LAUBER: Would this be satisfactory. I'll give you the sketch. I have no problem with that. I'm not going to go back and get another full drawing until we're sure where we're at and I will resubmit to both Boards if you like. I have to resubmit to the Planning Board and at least take into consideration their request. I can certainly make an alternate sketch which may satisfy you, it may satisfy them, it may satisfy Mr. Frishchati. MR. CHAIRMAN: Good, wonderful. That's what I suggest. OK, and we'll put you on for January 4th. Sir, you have a question? Page 21 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 JOSEPH FRISCHATI: The place for parking, the place that they usually, that they probably put tractors and service. It's, it's so close to my property that I pay $500 to ( ). ( ) 1 made a transfer of $500. I pay $500 to put a surveyor for my house and I put a property line. It must be the trucks that destroyed my property line. I had to look at concrete, keep shoveling to the side and I might put a fence. I started to put a fence, a post rear fence. Also, when they spray their vineyards I'm so close to that property, it's a mess for me. I stay on the ( ). I have to go and hide myself. But, we didn't say anything to that, it was there, we accepted it when we bought the house, just the way it was, ( ) parkiug lot near the ........ . MR. CHAIRMAN: He said he was going to move that farm equipment to the rear though when he builds a barn. JOEL LAUBER: I'd very much like to get the farm equipment away from where the, where the diesel ..... JOSEPH FRISCHATI: There's a matter of diesel fume, there's another spray, that cows outside there, l, I, happen to be on the other side, I got, got, a little bit of the south, from the south side of the wind that blows on my property I have to run. I have to close windows and everything because of the spray. It was there and I don't know what to do with it. JOEL LAUBER: That's, that's kind of what it's about. JOSEPH FRISCHATI: But the idea to create a parking lot next to my property and have buses and cars parked. Page 22 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, lets wait and see what he comes up with in an alternative plan. JOSEPH FRISCHATI: You can't build this behind my house. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, I understand, but, lets wait and see what he comes up with an alternate plan and you can react to that either with yourself or professionally with someone that may represent you, but we'll be here on January 4th, god willing and you know we'll readdress the issue. JOEL LAUBER: If I may, you know, I think Mr. Frischati, I mean that vineyard has been there since 1981, so Mr. Frischati certainly knew it was there when he bought, when he bought his house. In fact, I believe that man who owned the house had planned the vineyard. I'm not quite sure I understand whether that's part of this discussion. In fact, (coughing cannot understand) when he bought the house. MR. CHAIRMAN: MR. FRISCHATI: JOEL LAUBER: vineyard ...... MR. CHAIRMAN: Certainly we know that ......... . ( ). No, I understand that, but I mean spraying the Certainly he's bringing up the issues, certainly the nature of living next to any farm is going to have stone positives and some negatives. 'Phe one thing I don't think you and your fellow great farmers do is spray by helicopter. JOEL LAUBER: Oh! No! I'm very low on the ground you know that. Page 23 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: So therefore, that is something that if ever you lived next to a potato farm that you would be living with. OK, because I did and I assure you that any type of spraying that you're doing by tractor I would take 100 times over than spraying by helicopter. JOEL LAUBER: , As you say, if I comply, this is my right. MR. CHAIRMAN: It's your right so long as you can make us all agree. JOEL LAUBER: As long as I comply with the Code, isn't that the way it works. I guess what I'm saying is that I have no interest at all in making an enemy of Mr Frischati, who I only met this evening. MR. CHAIRMAN: He seems like a very nice gentleman. JOEL LAUBER: ( ). I plant a fence. You know a fence of greens. I just assume we can't see your house because I like people to feel they were isolated, you know, when their out there digging private wine. So, I just want you to understand that I have no intention of, I would like to be as far away Ss I could and if you want removal of that tree we'll move it over. MR. CHAIRMAN: The only other thing that we would like you to address is the crushing pad in the application or the site plan and what other noises that may eminent from that at that time you crush them. JOEL LAUBER: I could move the crushing to the side if you like the pad is there, but, I may ( ) crushing there. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. So, we'll see you on January 4th. Is there anybody else who would like to speak either for or against this Page 24 - tlearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 application? OK, I'll make a motion recessing the application January 4th. I need a second gentlemen. MEMBER VILLA: I'll second it. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. for 8:08 P.M. Application No. 4283 - GAlL DESSIMOZ AND MICHAEL RACZ. MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for Variances under Article III, Section 100-32 and Section 100-33C, based upon the October 21, 1994 Notice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for permission to: (1) change lot line resulting in a reduction of existing width on the westerly parcel from 208.14 feet to 125 feet (Code requirement is 175 feet in this R-80 Residential Zone District), and (2) if the lot width reduction is approved, to locate accessory pool in the new side yard area to the west of the existing single-family dwelling. Location of Property: Private right-of-way known as Hallock Lane and Private Road #10, which extends off the north side of Sound Avenue, Mattituck, N.Y. (over and along lands of Charles Simmons and Edwards Harbes); County Tax Map Parcels No. 1000-112-1-3 and 4. I have a copy a survey indicating tile nature of this application which is dated November 21, 1994, "Lot area of the existing large house and pool, so on and so forth is 128,045 sq. ft., Page 25 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals posed area of the is 85,861 sq. ft." indicating this and proposal location of existing 2 story frame house I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map surrounding properties in the area. Who would like to be heard concerning this? How are you tonight Sir? KENNETH ABRUZZO: Fine thank you. Kenneth Abruzzo from ( ) in the form of Young & Young Land Surveyors in Riverhead. I forgot to bring the posting notice. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. KENNETH ABRUZZO: Now, most of the things that the Chairman Ward announced in the Resolution, I would like to say a few things though that these two parcels if you didn't know are Gail Dessimoz and Michael Raez, are husband and wife, they have parcels that are that are owned by one jointly, and one by the wife. These easterly parcels as it presently exists today does not conform to zoning area or lot width and what we wish to do is to enlarge the easterly parcel whereby it would conform to lot width and more than conform the lot width and exceed the zoning requirements by a good deal. MEMBER VILLA: Easterly lot or the westerly lot? KENNETH ABRUZZO: The easterly lot. As the easterly lot exists at this time it's only 71,889 sq. ft. The lot width on that is approximately 124 feet. We wish to enlarge that lot. That's their main house parcel and the westerly portion, the westerly lot would become 125 feet wide which is just one foot wider than the non conforming lot on the east but it would exceed the area so we're actually I think taking a lot that's non conforming in area and lot Page 26 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals width and we're increasing the lot width on parcel. Basically that's the whole application. slide this over. their main house. MR. CHAIRMAN: the westerly most They just want to They'd like to put the pool, the pool house next to That's the reason for making this lot wider. OK. Questions. The reason for the relocation of the house on the westerly parcel? KENNETH ABRUZZO: Well the reason for that is, Mr. Racz has antique cars. He'd like to put in the front yard a garage to store i~is antique cars and that's the, although I understand that's permitted under the zoning that he could have accessory structure in the front yard. Like to take that existing bungalow that's on the westerly or the frame house on the westerly side and relocate that as close to the bluff as the DEC, the Trustees and the Building Department will allow for views and for steps. Certainly when that house is relocated we know we're going to be involved with whatever Building Per,nits and DEC and Health Department Trustee regulations would apply at that time. The application as it exists right now, we tried to show everybody what we're going to do and by relocating the boundary line we didn't want somebody to think that that house was going to stay right where it is. We are, we always had plan to relocate it if this boundary line agreement, boundary line alteration goes through. MR. CHAIRMAN: The propose swimming pool approximate location is 100 feet. The purpose of placing it there? KENNETH ABRUZZO: Again, the, number 1, we can't put it any closer to the bluff. They didn't want their pool, the pool house in Page 27 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals the front of their house and it's also in a study view. I would imagine that somebody from the Board, now that all of the Members have visited this site (inaudible)beautiful site and I believe they'd like to sit out by the pool and have the view of the sound. That's why they purchased this property and so the closer we can get it and still meet all of the regulations to the bluff' and to the flat portion up there they'd like it. or pool house located in the right-of-way. Certainly they didn't want the pool front of their house or towards the MR. CHAIRMAN: The only concern I have is that knowing this area and the prior owner of this house you have a substantial amount of erosion in this area and I know that they probabIy have done a substantial amount of planning to try and hold that erosion back, You don't have a topo of this piece so we could take a look at it? KENNETH ABRUZZO: No I have not done a full topo on this at all. But, what I can tell you is that there is, well I've been up there, sought of a double bluff. There, there's an edge of a what you might call a ravine section which is vegetated where we have located the top of the bluff is where the vegetation stops and there's a drastic drop to the beach. Between that point and a point somewhat seaward of the cottage up there, there is a drop off in the elevation. I know that Mr. Racz has planted many for a lack of a true name, maybe bamboo type of plants that really have good root systems in growths and since he's owned this property he's kept that vegetation going so that there would be no erosion. He tells me that since he's bought the place~ since he's been here, there has been no Page 28 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 erosion at all, that he's noticed, he has his little cottage up there and it's block wall and the brass all around this is established to in front of this cottage. I imagine one of your Members or some of your Members were here. established. Over the grass vegetated. So, I, I, don't There's grass up here. That's line where it does drop off that's all have a topo of that but I don't think there's a lot of erosion where the vegetation has been established. Maybe further down at the bluff there's certainly been erosion on and Alright. Mr. Villa do you have any questions of off. MR. CHAIRMAN: this gentleman? MEMBER VILLA: No, not really. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. Do you have any specific concern? I don't mean to put you on the spot. MEMBER VILLA: Well, erosion is always a problem and sometimes it's stable for many years then all of a sudden you lose a great deal in a storm. It's hard to say. You have to go back and look at the records but erosion is always a problem. MR. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any questions of this gentleman? MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah, I do. MR. CHAIRMAN: Go ahead Jim. MEMBER DINIZIO: The a, the block wall, it's very bard to say, just how high is that going to be? KENNETH ABRUZZO: The block wall is existing. MEMBER DINIZIO:: OK, and it's going to stay that way, it's 8 foot, 8 foot 9 inches away? Page 29 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals KENNETH ABRUZZO: Yes. That's existing. That was merely ..... . MEMBER DINIZIO: You're not going to add on to that? KENNETH ABRUZZO: No, no, not at all. MEMBER DINIZIO: So you're just adding on the swimming pool? KENNETH ABRUZZO: The swimming pool, there's a swimming pool and a pool house that will be on the side yard of which this variance is, is requested. I understand that the proposed antique automobile storage is a permitted structure in the front yard. We have no plans to modify the house or the block wall of the cottage. We would just, we'd like to move the existing property line west in order to locate his proposed swimming pool and pool house on the side yard. MEMBER DINiZIO: OK. Now~ the existing house, you're going to No, no. Well, it move that? KENNETH ABRUZZO: MEMBER DINIZIO: topo. says proposed location of existing KENNETH ABRUZZO: That is the house on the westerly most parcel that's been ( ). MEMBER DINIZ10: It's getting moved and adding on to? Ds that, it doesn't look like the same footings. KENNETH ABRUZZO: Well, I think the house itself, is the same. I think they're going to add the porch coming around landward or better. You see, where the outline of the house looks the same you have the porch. But again, this, that application tried to show the Board exactly what we intend to have. When, if and when, this property line alteration is granted we will go on to the Building Page 30 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals Department with a separate application for a Building Permit for that house. Now, if that house is landward 20 feet or 10 feet because of the Trustees we have no problem with that. We will meet all side yard requirements, rear yard and front yard requirelnents and bulkhead. MEMBER DINIZIO: I was under the impression that you were moving this house, the two story frame house over to there. KENNETH ABRUZZO: No, no, we're moving the one that's on that existing parcel. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. Back to the frame cottage for a second. Does that have full kitchen facilities in there? Do you know? KENNETH ABRUZZO: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: It does? KENNETH ABRUZZO: Yes, it does. MR. CHAIRMAN: What is proposed to be in the pool house itself? KENNETH ABRUZZO: Ed, do you know? ED WORTH: Just, just, I guess bath and a changing room. BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: What is your name please? ED WORTH: I'm sorry, it's Edward. Abruzzo wants me to be the builder on it. We've done most of the work on it. BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: OK, thanks. MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you have any idea if there's an existing CO for that cottage? ED WORTH: Yes, there is. I have submitted those to the a. Our first step is to go to the Planning Board. They of course told us to Page 3] - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 go to the Zoning Board of Appeals. We have provided Seals for the, the house, the cottage and the garage. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. It's a beautiful area. There's no question about it. MEMBER VILLA: What is the size of the pool envelope? ED WORTH: 20 x 40. MEMBER DINIZIO: That's the size of the pool? Is there a deck, a, is there going to be a ..... ? ED WORTH: No, there was just a patio. We've shown on here there's going to be a 4 or 5 foot wide concrete patio, just around the pool. MEMBER DINIZIO: So, this 20 feet is to where? To the corner of the pool where the water is going to be, or 20 feet to the? EI) wORTH: 20 feet is to the corner of the pool house. The 24 feet is to the edge of the concrete. We've tried to center the pool, the proposed pool in the center of the pool house. So, the edge of the concrete will be 24 feet, the pool will be about 28 feet or so from the property line, the pool house will be 20 feet from the property line. MEMBER VILLA: So, that's the nearest point of that whole structure? ED WORTH: That correct. They'll be nothing closer than 20 feet from the property line. MR. CHAIRMAN: And what's the approximate size of the pool house? ED WORTH: The pool house I believe it's about 18 x 25 or 30. MR. CHAIRMAN: We have specific requirements in reference to pool houses but we're going to embody that in the decision, simply Page 32 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 199zl Southold Town Board of Appeals because we have two, two dwelling units on this piece already. We're, we're certainly going to be a little restrictive on the pool house. ED WOi{TH: You mean as far as the square footage? MR. CHAIRMAN: No, in reference to the way the pool house should be designed and the way the door should open for the ingress and egress to the specific changing rooms and the lavatory and so on and so forth. Go ahead, I'm sorry. ED WORTH: The garage as the architect, I'm sorry, the pool house measurements that the architect have provided is about 20 x 30. But again, I don't have full architectural. These were you know, concepts. We have submitted this and we got a letter from the Zoning Board of Appeals that asked us to show any improvements that might be in that side yard. Until I got that letter I didn't realize that there was going to be a pool house but you asked for fences or patios or anything that would show. I did contact the architect and he sent me a sketch of everything that he desired to do there. I didn't think, he realized that he had to show it all in the beginning. So, I don't have full architectural but I'm drawing the scale on it, it's about 20 x 30. MEMBER DINIZIO: Is it one story? ED WORTH: Yes, yes it is. MEMBER DINIZIO: Not to exceed what, 12 feet or 187 ED WORTH: Pardon me. MEMBER DINIZIO: Not to exceed 12 feet or a ? ED WORTH: I would say yes, ( ) 18 or a. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, two story. Page 33 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: If it's more than one more story. One story is 12 feet. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. We thank you very much. We don't mean to grill you. It's just an area that a --- ED WORTH: That's alright, I just like all the answers, but sometimes I didn't realize that we would get into the architectural of the building but that's OK. That's what you have to ask. MR. CHAIRMAN: I should point out to you that tile requirements that this Board uses for pool houses is that lavatories shall open to the outside of the building. We don't want another bunk house and I'm not referring to this applicant or this is a generic opinion, OK and I'm not speaking for the Board, I'm speaking for myself. Their welcome to say whatever they want. We've had some pretty sophisticated pool houses. We've had pool houses that will accommodate a landing pad for a helicopter. We've had all kinds of substantial looking things that a, so this is the reason, this is basically why we've adopted these. ED WORTH: I a, I certainly understand your concerns and although I really don't know Mr. Racz's feelings about the doors. He's always been willing to cooperate in anyway and I think if that's a condition of approval that his doors open to the outside for his bathrooms and things like that, I don't think that would be a problem. He wants to do everything by code to the property lines to help the department whatever we have to do. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Thank you very much. Page 34 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals ED WORTH: May I just ask one question? Just because of time and I understand I have to go back to the Planning Board and I'm not that familiar with the Southold Zoning Board, can you tell me approximately if this is favorable, one week to get a resolution on this? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, hopefully we will attempt to address it tonight and I don't foresee that we wouldn't address it unless we get into a rather lengthy discussion on some other matter. We did have one winery application which took some time. We don't have a substantial amount of hearings on tonight. We do have some individual stuff that we have to deal with. It's ritualistic at the end of the year but you're welcome to give us a call tomorrow. Hopefully we will of at least deliberated onit and let you know where we're going. I think the nice part about this is the fact that we're not really that far away from the next hearing if we had to carry it over to just make a decision. I mean January 4th isn't really that far, far with the understanding that we'll try to address it long. I'm tonight. ED WORTH: And then if you do address it tonight the resolution would be forthcoming on this? BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: Within five days usually. MEMBER VILLA: Before we let the gentleman go, if we're going to deliberate on it tonight, --- MR. CHAIRMAN: Only if we get to that point. MEMBER VILLA: OK, but you're showing across that extension for the swimming pool you said it was 20 x 40, what is the entire Page 35 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals envelope? You say 20 x 40 and then you said the pool house is 20 x 30. MR. CHAIRMAN: He said 28 x 48. MEMBER VILLA: It can't be. I mean if the pool is 20 x 40 and the pool house is 20 x 30. ED WORTH: The pool house is 20 x 30 and there's of the part that isn't crossed out it's a patio. It's just a concrete patio that will go around the pool. The pool house itself will leng{hen width measurements that I just scaled. It's scaled about 25 x 30. I don't have it right down to the nearest foot because I ..... . MEMBER VILLA: So, the pool is 20 x 30 and that's crossed out. ED WORTH: 20 x 40. MEMBER VILLA: The pool is 20 x 40. ED WORTH: Right and then that's, a standard pool. As I understand it there 18 x 36, 20 x 40. They're looking to put a 20 x 40 pool and what you see there is the total square for the pool, there's 4 feet on either side, but that's the concrete walk that goes around just like having a ..... . MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, but where is the pool house then? ED WORTH: Where is the pool house? MEMBER VILLA: You're saying the pool house is 20 x 30, ...... (Some Members and Board Clerk discussing that they have a different plan). ED WORTH: Now, we're talking apples and bananas. MEMBER VILLA: Alright. I wanted that clear before we deliberated. ED WORTH: I don't blame you. Page 36 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm just going to ask a question. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application.? Hearing no further comment, you have any other questions gentlemen? OK. I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER VILLA: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBER: Aye. All in favor? 8:27 P.M. - Application No. 4285 ELBERT E. LUCE, JR. MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for a Variance under Article III, Section 100-33, based upon the November 7, 1994 Notices of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector for permission to construct (1) accessory storage building (shed) in an area other than the required rear yard, and (2) deck addition as built which has an insufficient rear yard setback. Location of Property: Private Right-of-way extending 332.51 feet off the easterly side of Youngs Road, (House #944), Orient, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-18-2-14. Subject premises contains a total lot area of 21,188 sq. ft. and is located in an R-80 Residential Zone District. I have a copy of the survey dated November 2, 1994, indicating the attachment and the deck and the present location of of the shed in the side yard and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and Page 37 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals surrounding properties in the area. be heard concerning this? ED BOYD: Good evening. MR. CHAIRMAN: How are you tonight Sir? Is there somebody that like to the application Mr. & Mrs. Lure purchased an L shape piece of property that goes to the north and east of the existing ( ), extend the square footage of their lot, that purchase was just recent. They picked up the little door that went between their loft and the Oyster Pond School and also the piece that goes on the other side. MR. CHAIRMAN: Does the shed contain any utility? Any electricity, any .... ED BOYD: Nothing, nothing, no street, no electricity, nothing like that. It's a storage type of thing. MR. CHAIRMAN: I don't have the size of the shed, Ed. ED BOYD: I'm here to answer any questions, Mr. Luce is here as well. MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh! Good. Can we grill you? ED BOYD: Absolutely. MR. CHAIRMAN: It's my understanding that both the shed and the deck are existing. ED BOYD: Correct. It has been for some considerable period of time. MR. CHAIRMAN: The deck is approximately 33 feet from the property line which is in the rear. ED BOYD: It is now and the new property line as you can see from Page 38 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals ED BOYD: 10 x 12. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Alright, the Board have any questions of counsel? MEMBERS: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: application? MEMBERS: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBER VILLA: MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBERS: Aye. ED BOYD: Thank you very much. MR. CltAIRMAN: Have a lovely evening. lets see, do .any Members of Anybody have any particular problems with the Anybody like to make a motion? I'll make a motion that it be approved as it exists. All in favor? 8:30 P.M. Application No. 4257 OSPREY DOMINION CO. and FREDERICK KOEHLER, JR. MR. CHAIRMAN: This is a carry over appeal from a prior meeting. This is an application requesting a Special Exception for approval of a new winery establishment in two existing farm buildings for the production and sale of wine produced from grapes primarily grown on the existing Vineyard, and Winery Establishment proposed at 44075 Main Road (State Route 25), Peconic, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-75-1-20. The entire premises contains 50.8 acres located in Page 39 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals the Agricultural-Conservation (A-C) Zone District. This was reconvened from September 1994 and I believe at that time we had Mr. Raynor representing. Mr. Raynor would you like to tell where we are at this point. Yes, good evening. How are you? I'm Henry Raynor and I'm representing Osprey Frederick Koehler, Jr. and since September when hearing we have created a site plan for this approximately 98% complete that you have before you a discussion with Bob Kassner today. There were one or two additional elements concerning drainage to be addressed by the Planning Board. Other than that, the Planning Board seems to feel favorably the changes that we have made concerning parking, the buffering, the lighting schedules. We have also reviewed and changed on recommendation of the Town Engineer the drainage at the intersection of the highway. We have since secured the State Department Transportation (too noisy - inaudible) that entrance. As the Zoning Board of Appeals request we have supplied additional site plans to the neighbors to the east have requested us and the parking that was the subject of discussion at the prior hearing has been moved to the north. That will be west of the tasting building. I understand it concerns pertaining to traffic. This is not a large wine tasting facility. Approximately one-tenth the size of Pindar which was mentioned earlier. I would be happy to answer any requests of the Board and any questions in any way I can be of help. HENRY RAYNOR: MR. CHAIRMAN: HENRY RAYNOR: Dominion Co. and we adjourned this property wbich is Page 40 - }{earing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 CHAIRMAN: There was a specific concern about the sharp drop MR. off of the barrel storage and uncreation room, the, as to the large tin building in the back. going to be any change with that in anyway? change any topo, try and expose any more that nature to your knowledge? HENRY RAYNOR: None whatsoever. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. I'm sure that was a topic with the Planning Board in dealing with the aspects of this site plan. Wasn't we'll refer to it as Is there, there's not There not going to water or anything of it? HENRY RAYNOR: Yes it was. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Planning Board is happy with both buildings as they exist, as they presently exist at this point with no marketable changes in any type of conformance of different awnings or anything of that nature? HENRY RAYNOR: I have not had any objections to what we had submitted other than the changes that we have made to date. MR. CHAIRMAN: Good. Does anybody have any questions of Mr. Raynor? MEMBER VILLA: Well at the last meeting your neighbors to the east have been with some concern. Have they been addressed. HENRY RAYNOR: They have requested some more information and I had requested and I know Fairweather/Brown have forwarded the current site plans to both parties. MR. CHAIRMAN: I guess we'll ask them the questions then. Alright. MR. RAYNOR: Thank you very much. Page 41 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. Thank you. Ladies is there anything that we can help you understand better in this overall special permit application ? VIRGINIA [)RAPER: Well, l'm still, I'm Virginia Draper. I'm still very concerned about the amount of traffic. Now I understand there's going to be another winery with the same thing tilat's within a very relatively short distance which is going to further complicate that traffic situation, and in looking~ I did receive the site plans but I only see 14 spaces of parking and certainly that does not seem adequate. Where are the employees going to park if you have only have 14 spaces and if your entertaining the thought of having wine tasting, perhaps buses? I see one space for a bus. Is that adequate? I don't think so. MR. CHAIRMAN: That may be a question that the Planning Board might have to address but we will ask Mr. Raynor to address it and if need be again, further explain it to you and then you can come back again and you know we'll discuss it again tonight. Is there anything that you have any further comment? VIRGINIA DRAPER: Now the septic tank that's over near the wetlands, .... MR. CHAIRMAN: You mean the pond? VIRGINIA DRAPER: No, there's the side I believe that is to the rear. the wetlands. Mr. CHAIRMAN: This is on the steel building? septic tank over on the east It's very close to the edge of Page 42 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 VIRGINIA DRAPER: Yes, I guess it's on the right of the steel building. I'm concerned about the wetlands and with septic tanks being close to that area would there be any contamination of the wetlands? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, to my knowledge, it's quite a height there or a difference in height and 1 can understand your concern. Topo doesn't make a difference. It's horizontal MEMBER VILLA: separation that's area these plans They would usually required. If there are wetlands in the have to be approved by the Health Department. require it to be moved. They have certain requirements. It's at least 100 feet. VIRGINIA DRAPER: Does this mean because I'm not well adverse to the blueprints. MEMBER VILLA: I don't know if this plan has gone to the Health Department or is going to the Health Department. It has gone? HENRY RAYNOR: It has gone. MEMBER VILLA: Has it gotten it approved? We're waiting for it any day and that's says 175 HENRY RAYNOR: feet. MEMBER VILLA: If it's 175 feet that's more than adequate. VIRGINIA DRAPER: OK, because I know there's lateral drains from a septic tank a~xd you know it has to drain somewhere. MEMBER VILLA: No, it's ( ) pool is generally ( ). MR. CHAIRMAN: Good point. Certainly most of tile activity does occur towards the westerly portion of the property. I mean, you certainly have a legitimate concern. There's no doubi about it. You Page 43 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals know it appears that most of the activities is over on that side. The remaining hill area is going to be what, grass Mr. Raynor? So the area that these nice people would be looking at basically will be primarily lawn. HENRY RAYNOR: (Speaking too low cannot hear his response.) VIRGINIA DRAPER: Because I did note when we came the last time there was water created over the easterly side almost at the property line. I don't know whether it was due to the erosion where they were bulldozing or whatever they were doing with that land there. It created a water. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, I think that was the thought that there ~night have been an additional pond wanting to be created there and I think that was ruled out totally at that point. VIRGINIA DRAPER: Yes, I realize that that was where the pond was going to be but we had water standing there which had been standing there for a period of time that had not been there. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well for all intensive purposes I sincerely understand with what you're saying but I don't think there'll be any concern on that basis there. I realize, I really honestly do, realize how difficult it is sometimes to visualize this because it's somewhat difficult for us to visualize it also and that's most of the reason why we go back two and three times to look and it's a difficult thing sometimes to deal with because it is certainly affecting you because it is a little more than an aquarium type of use but at the same token I think it's probably the least intensive use that you can have apart from a major housing subdivision which I Page 44 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals think would cause a lot more activity with houses going in and out, cars going in and out of houses I should say, so and so forth. But, if you have any other concerns we are going to or we are anticipating closing this hearing tonight. You're welcomed to write to us. We cannot necessarily make it part of the hearing, just so you're aware of that. If you have any specific concerns of Mr. Raynor, again, I'm sure that he would meet with you out in the hall and you can come back and talk to us. It's entirely up to you. I'm not trying to put any words in your mouth honestly. MEMBER VILLA: Jerry! MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: If this becomes a water problem which I can understand can breed mosquitoes or what have you in the summer, would your client agree sometime if this does become a problem, to go back and regrade and eliminate it? I don't see where that would be any problem, at HENRY RAYNOR: all, really. MEMBER VILLA: Because I mean they did change that slope going down there and it could, all that runoff could puddle down there. If it becomes a standing water problem we have an agreement between us that it will be corrected. HENRY RAYNOR: this. MEMBER VILLA: HENRY RAYNOR: There's been a standard water problem prior to It has? I never noticed it there. Yes, it has. Page 45 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, that's because of the way the grade was. It was graded into a V almost at one time. HENRY RAYNOR: It's again, it's no particular problem. MEMBER VILLA: OK, we have it on the record that if it becomes a problem they'll correct it, OK. VIRGINIA DRAPER: I thank you. HENRY RAYNOR: OK. VIRGINIA DRAPER: Alright, I just would hope that you would take into consideration the amount of traffic and the possibility of not sufficient parking being there. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, certainly will. VIRGINIA DRAPER: Thank you so much. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. Raynor, while you're still here in the back, could you just address the parking issue in reference to total car's at the site and what the Planning Board had in concern when you were dealing with the parking aspects. HENRY RAYNOR: Yes, the site Planning Board went over all of the parking requirements for the ordinance and it is more than sufficient than what they would ever anticipate using here. MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, correct me if I'm wrong. Most of the employees would park up by the, by the butler building or by the steel building? HENRY RAYNOR: In the northerly building. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. I don't know why I can't get northerly in. I want to call it steel or butler, I apologize. If there were Page 46 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals any plans for additional parking, and they were required, would they be put on the westerly side and continue on the westerly side? HENRY RAYNOR: We could quite easily go along the north westerly radius of the connecting asphalt road. There'd be or problem with all of the asphalt driveway ( ). MR. CHAIRMAN: Great. Thank you very much Sir. HENRY RAYNOR: Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Hearing no further comment, questions from Board Members, I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER VILLA: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor. BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 8:45 - Application No. 4282 -CURT W. MEYHOEFER/JOHN AND DOREEN MAZZAFERRO MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for a Variance under Article III, Section 100-32 for approval of deck, as built, with a setback at less than the required fifteen (15) ft. setback from the northerly side property line, at premises known as 43475 Main Road, Peconic, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-75-1-18.1. I have a sketch of the deck in its present placement. We have used the deck. At one point it's ground level and I have a copy of the survey indicating the deck Page 47 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 $outhold Town Board of Appeals which lies in between the rear of the house and to almost the front of the shed and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody like to be heard? Mr. Moore, how are you tonight? WILLIAM MOORE: I'm fine, thank you. Its been a long time. I saw Judge Boyd do his thing up here and the less said seems to be the better. I always get scared. Lawyers cant' get by by saying a couple of things. We represent Mazzaferro who bought the property from local people all their lives here. They fell in love with the property last fall, in the fall of 93 and had a hard time reaching consensus with the sellers. Mr. Meyhoefer is here to help with the information who of course has been very helpful. We finally got contracts on this property, August of 94 but theMazzaferros had hunted and hunted until we said we don't know if you can get this house given the problems the sellers were having. Keep looking. They have a big family, certain price range and they fell for this house and stuck with it and stuck it out. They got their mortgage commitment and we're in a situation where we discovered the problem with the deck when the surveys brought it and we started going. Interest rate is going up. We went ahead and closed and that we would deal with this variance after the fact. That's how we're here. We would of loved to deal with it as a purchasers' attorney before we went to closing but given all circumstances we felt lets close this at the interest rate and we'll come here at the Zoning Board and see if we can persuade the Board to allow these people to keep the deck because they fell in love with it back as far Page 48 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals as 1993. Your familiarity with site conditions gets more what's important to you. There is an existing shed and what he's got is a small privy which made themselves closer to the westerly lot line then is now this existing deck is as well. In addition the property to the west is screened in large portion by a combination of a stockade fence, some trees and a privet hedge. In speaking with the Mazzaferros their intention is, apparently there is a gap in there somewhere, that they would fill in that gap with more cedar trees or more privet hedges. Totally seal off that westerly property line where this deck has its most impact. They went to their neighbor George Kokkinos and he asked him to draft a letter which he would sign, which he did, and which he has absolutely no objections to request a grant and I give that to you for your file. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. WILLIAM MOORE: My personal opinion is if we were to cut this deck back as it has been built, just comply with the Code now, we'd really render that deck matter disfunctional or rather unuseful. That being the case my pictures have, that you would approve this in its present configuration as is. Mr. Meyhoefer is here, he's the individual who designed it and built it and he can answer any questions you may have with regard to it. That's the lawyer's pitch for tonight. More said then Justice Boyd. MR. CHAIRMAN: That's it. WILLIAM MOORE: That's it. If you have questions regarding the specific deck I think Mr. Meyhoefer is the best one to answer and Page 49 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals he's here and very graciously volunteered to come out tonight to answer any questions you may have. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright. I guess we'll ask him a couple of questions. Thank you for coming Sir. Can you tell us how the deck evolved in this manner? MR, MEYHOEFER: Well, it was very simple. My wife at the time wanted tile deck to be built at the back of the house for the simple fact that we have a lot runoff in the farm field in the back and it would act as a mud room before you got into the back of the house. There was a little walkway that went up. So Berke who is my next door neighbor and who was born in that house and grew up in that house and it was his farm told me that I had to go to the Building Department and make sure that it was ground covered and not a deck and specifications at tile time was not more than 18 inches high and it could be built into the ground and you didn't really need a permit and also the line wall was in a different, you can at that point, I believe build right up to the line if you wanted. The line wall since has been changed and the thing that disturbed me most, was that after the deck was built no-one said that I needed to have a CO or file for a CO, I just let it go. Its been on the tax roll since 1984 and everything was what I thought was legal. Mr. Boufis, tile inspector came out and said no problem, just go down and apply for a CO and it will go through and everything would be fine. Tom Fisher told me if I had any problems he'd get back to me, he never got back to me. The next thing I know I was going to need a variance. I didn't really realize that I needed to apply for a CO Page 50 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals when it was completed. A case in point a couple years ago I stood here, I wanted to build a garage on my property where I'm living now. The line law has been changed while I went away for vacation. Prior to going away to vacation I went down to the Town Hall and checked to make sure there was no variances that were going to change while I was gone. The contractor didn't put it up MR. CHAIRMAN: to it at 4.9 feet? MEMBERS: No. because the line law had changed and I came down because it was in contrast to move the tree, OK. This is an oversight on my part. As far as I know and understand I built it legally at the time and since the laws have changed. So, it's up to you. It remains in your hands. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you Sir. Thank you for coming down. We really didn't have a chance to grill Mr. Moore. Does the Board have any questions of the applicant's attorney? MEMBERS: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: I assume this deck is to remain unroofed as it is, as its presently been since 1984 Mr. Mazzaferro? MR. MAZZAFERRO: Yes. Alright. Does anybody have any specific objection Gentlemen? BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: high is it off tile ground, seen it. MR. CHAIRMAN: MR. MEYHOEFER: I'm just curious for the record. How 18, 17 inches? I don't know, I haven's At its highest point. The highest point I believe its a 16 inches. Page 51 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 BOARD CLERK KOWALSKi: OK, thank you. MR. MEYHOEFER: And at that side I put up a roll of Lilies and Irises and then I built in the front of the deck so you're not going to fall off, but there's a step, or a tear drop, what I call a tear drop step and it was a platform for the kids to sit on. MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, so I'll offer the resolution that it be granted as applied for. MEMBER DINIZIO: I second that. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye. 8:56 - Application No. 4287- NORTH FORK BEACH CONDOMINIUM MR. CHAIRMAN: Request for a Variance under Article III, Section 100-33, based upon the November l, 1994 Notice of Disapproval of the Building Inspector, for permission to locate an inground swi~nming pool in an area other than the required rear yard and which faces the south side of Soundview Avenue. Property identified as: 52325 County Road No. 48, Southold, N.Y.; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-135.1-1-1 thru 43. The entire premises contains 1.18 acres and is a corner lot. Zone District: R-40 Low-Density Residential. I have a copy of a sit plan which is actually a survey indicating the approximate location of the proposed swimming pool and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. I see noted counsel at the mike so he must be representing them. Mr. Caminiti how are you? Page 52 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals PAUL CAMINITI: I feel at home here with all of my fellow attorneys, Mr. Moore, Mr. Boyd, only Mr. Bruer is missing. I even see my old neighbors here. The purposes of this hearing, I'm representing the North Fork Condominiums, my name is Paul Caminiti, refer to Caminiti. Box 846, Main Road, Southold, N.Y. Mr. Chairman I just want to fill in a couple of items that I think are lacking on the application. But, North Fork Condo is a unit comprised of 42 Units, which 22 are actually occupied and owned individually. 20 of the units are still held by the sponsor of the Condominium Unit. They reserve the right to vote on any major improvements on the property. The units themselves are one room units, do not contain any cooking facilities at all but just mark away units. Only one unit is an efficiency that has a sports kitchenette really. 42 that's only used in the summer time on a rental basis. The common units themselves are open in April and closed in November, so it's strictly a seasonal operation. Now, in September, there was a general meeting of all of the stockholders of which 32 votes were cast in favor of the construction of the pool, there was no opposition. However, ten property owners failed to appear at the meeting that seldom attended, abstentions. 32 were in favor of tile units. The whole reason for the application is that the parcel as shown in the site plan certainly needed that there is really no defined rear yard. It's a triangular piece. So, we have here tonight Mr. Callahan who manages the unit and also Jim O'Callaghan who is the Engineer who designed the location and also Mr. Feeley from Dolphin Pools. The pool itself is a one piece Page 53 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 fiberglass molded fiberglass unit which is planed to the prepared hole. The site plan is pretty clear. I think it addresses all the major conditions of setbacks which shows an 11 foot setback from Soundview Avenue. It covers the question of the screening, the lighting, all the other requirements that are necessary. I would also like to point out to the Board that the present use now is a basketball court, eonc~ete pad which is a used for shuffle board, there's also a barbecue pit. It is lighted and the present use now in the summer time is between 10 and 11:00 o'clock. As far as the pool is concerned the Health Department would probably require us to post hours for the use of the pool. With all probability they anticipate a time which will probably be 8:00 o'clock at night, so I don't believe that there will be any increased noise level from the use of the pool that doesn't already exist now. In order to construct the pool there has to be a variance granted since we do not meet the necessary rear yard requirements. As you approach the property from the west it seems to be the only logical place to put the pool would be in this open area which would be really the rear yard, but its got two means of approach, Soundview Avenue and North Road. So, basically it's a question of determining the rear yard and granting the variance. can add other than have Mr. selecting this particular site. Now, there isn't anything more I Callaghan give his reasoning for MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, that would be a question we have and I have to excuse the public to have come to this but we have to take a short recess after he does his presentation. How do you do Sir? Page 54 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals JIM O'CALLAGHAN: Good evening Mr. Chairman, my name is Jim O'Callaghan. I'm with the firm of Burton, Behrendt, Smith & O'Callaghan from Patchogue. Our shorthand is speedy itself because it works a lot easier on the phone and John Callahan who is not my brother is the manager of the condo. A couple of things I want to point out. The pool location was selected because one it's tight, the site is very tight and two the only other perhaps the seawall location would be in the V notch between the two wings of the condo unit and that area is treed and also contains the underground sanitary system for the units. Put the pool in would mean ripping out the cesspools and septic tanks. So, because there was so little area left over basically that this appeared to be the most appropriate site for the pool. Across the street on the north side of Soundview Avenue is the bluff that leads down to the beach. The top of the bluff is roughly as you look at the drawing, roughly where you see the stairs ending it's just about along the north right-of-way line of Soundview Avenue. It runs basically then across the drawing from left to right in a straight line. So, we're a considerable distance away from the top of the bluff. The pavement on Soundview Avenue is roughly not in the center of the right-of-way but closer to the south right-of-way line. As you can see on the drawing to the left of the condo units the split rail fence that actually serves to protect the top of the stairway, they have a right-of-way that runs down the beach and the stairway that's on the drawing is shown partially that's within their easterly area. The pavement on Soundview is roughly between the split rail fence Page 55 - Itearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals that you see and the split rail fence that runs along the south right-of-way line on Soundview Avenue. The pool is approximately 14 x 32 in size, holds about 18,000 gallons of water when it's filled and we've added some details to show how it will be fenced and screened to protect it from view and if you have any questions you have to ask. MEMBER VILLA: What's the deepest part of the pool? JIM O'CALLAGHAN: 5-1/2 feet. MEMBER VILLA: They'll be no diving? JIM O'CALLAGHAN: No, I might get my belly button wet ( ). MEMBER VILLA: Just about. MR. CHAIRMAN: How far into the notch area if we were to complete a triangle would the sewage system be? In other words, do they extend in that are they actually pooled within that entire center area or is there some movement of this pool toward the south adjacent to the shuffle board court? JIM O'CALLAGHAN: One of the problems we don't, we do, we don't have as built of the sanitary systems so we don't know exactly where the system components are, except to know that they are in the notch. There's only one visible manhole that shows on the drawing not to center the pool of the V notch. Did I answer your questiou? MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes. My question is and we will recess just to throw out to you is there any reason why this pool could not be built ahnost adjacent if not just to the southerly portion of that 8 foot concrete path? I realized that you had so many people. Page 56 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals JIM O'CALLAGHAN: Just so we're on the same page, are you talking, if I may, something in here? Alright, ]et me ask John Callahan. MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBER VILLA: MEMBER DOYEN: MR. CHAIRMAN: MEMBERS: Aye. MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, we're going to take a short recess and then we'll be back to you in about 3 to 4 minutes. 9:15 P.M. - Con't. North Fork Beach Condominium. Will you make a motion to reconvene. I'll make the motion. Second. All in favor? JIM O'CALLGAHAN: If I can approach the Board. What I've sketched out in rough form is to the extent that we can tell just from the surface conditions this appears to be the extent of the sanitary system that services the units. MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh! That's great. JiM O'CALLAGHAN: There appears to be a lot of them. You had suggested that we use this rectangle but there's a flagpole that we'd like to save. We're thinking that we could shift the pool this way to avoid the flagpole and roughly have it here. We'd like to preserve the right to do a physical inspection to make sure that the closest cesspool swimming pool. MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, JIM O'CALLAGHAN: No, do it. This is basically does not conflict with the proposed location of the they shouldn't be that difficult to locate. it would just be some probing and we'll what the pool looks like installed and this Page 57 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 is, these are some of the types of equipment that are used to install so our concern is that we don't want to have to bring this stuff over a cesspool and have it collapse under these, so we need a reasonable working area around the pool to construct the pool. MR. CHAIRMAN: What we are concerned with the issue that we, I shouldn't say this on the mike, but of course when we don't grant something we're arbitrating capricious. Alright, but when we do grant something we want to do it on the spirit of health safety and welfare. Alright? Our concern, or my concern, is and any possible occurrence of the vehicular occurrence of penetrating that fence? Now, it may never of happen, alright, but, it's something that is definitely concern, it's concerning, OK, it would be disconcerting if it happens and it's concerning my particular vote on this application and that's the reason why I'd like it setback there. I'd also like some sort of minor barrier placed. It coL~ld either be a berm or it can be a guard rail in, you know a regular steel guard rail 4 x 4, 6 x 6, --- JIM O'CALLAGHAN: We've talked about that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Holding it. JIM O'CALLAGHAN: Within our property. MR. CHAIRMAN: Within, and put greens around it so you'll never see it or paint it green and then put the green, I don't care if its privet, I don't care what it is, I mean considerably it's going to be a little blatant the first couple of years before it actually grows up around it. I happen to be a Park District Commissioner, we buy it like water and we utilize it an unbelievable amount and it Page 58 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, Southold Town Board of Appeals 1994 does and it's a very great retainance type of thing. about anything high. I'm talking three feet off something of that nature and that's my concern. I'm talking the ground, JIM O'CALLAGHAN: The only detail about that so you understand is that if you plant a heavy shrub in front of the guard rail that can actually be bent over. by the vehicle and actually act as a ramp MR. CHAIRMAN: I would put it in back of it. JIM O'CALLAGHAN: OK, that's even better. MR. CHAIRMAN: And use it as a side line for the shuffle board court, or whatever the concrete path is used for, bocci or whatever. MEMBER VILLA: Alright, the plan also says a 6 foot fence. Are they asking for a variance for a taller fence then, because this is basically a front yard which only allows 4 feet. JIM O'CALLAGHAN: This was prepared based on discussions with your Building Inspector. I'm not saying that he ordered us to put the 6 foot fence in but I, I'm wondering if that's where it came from, because my understanding is that normally the fence around a swimming pool only has to be 4 feet high and if that's satisfactory we're willing to live with 4 feet. We'll make it 4 feet high. MEMBER VILLA: On the road now you do have a higher fence along here, don't you or is it .... JIM O'CALLAGHAN: Welt right along that's, that's a stockade right along ( ), 6 foot. Page 59 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, ]994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: What I'm thinking about is people coming down the road se~ing the pool and swimmers down here being distracted from the turn of the road or any sort of traffic, the fence there the better it might be .... BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: If you want to so actually the higher condition it, well, the Board can condition it as part of a safety factor. You don't have to give a variance for your own condition. MEMBER Villa: You'd be screened for vehicular traffic. (Everyone talking at one time) MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, the question is, I mean certainly you're not going to build it right now anyway. Do you want to probe between now and January 4th and we'll come back and do it? I mean the ground is not frozen yet. You know, measure everything you want, preferably give us some dimensions of, you know, from this location. I mean I know we have location here, we knew the width of the pool, we can estimate what the side yard rather. JIM O'CALLAGHAN: We can probe, is going to be, the front yard get some details on ( ), show as best we know where the thing is below grade and then just redo this detail to show it relative to the to ( ). MR. CHAIRMAN: Well we'll reconvene the hearing to January 4th and if you don't have it until then, just bring it that night. JIM O'CALLAGHAN: No, we'll have it by then. (Discussions being had by everyone) MEMBER VILLA: What would happen if the other ten people came forth and said they didn't want it? Page 60 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CALLAHAN: MEMBER VILLA: Well, the By-Laws read the majority. Majority! So, I would assume that there's 20 Units Now, it's controlled by a So, I'm assuming that they voted in its entirety. Well, the way it reads, is this. What they voted is what the basic owners want. MEMBER VILLA: They went along with the majority and the other owners. MR. CALLAHAN: There were against it .... . MEMBER VILLA: Their still trying to sell those units I would assume right? So, this is that's to their ( ). That's what I was wondering about. MR. CALLAHAN: The proxies voted by ( ). The Condominium Sponsors, Sam Waldwin and Lou Jacobson indicated that they would go along with the majority of those at the meeting, so they cast over their 20 votes in favor of the pool. (Discussions amongst themselves). MEMBER VILLA: Another question I have. You have these 20 Units there rented out on a 90 basis, right, so how are you going to control those people in the pool, in the evening, in other words somebody is in there and they say I want to go swimming in the pool, its 10:00 o'clock at night? you've said owned by one person. MR. CALLAHAN: Former Sponsor. Board now. MEMBER VILLA: MR. CALLAHAN: Page 61 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CALLAHAN: We do have a manager, a live in manager that's on the premises all the time, so, and it is well lighted back there. You still have to have the light for the whole ( ), MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, but you know, there's a, there's enforcement and there's non enforcement. In other words, you know, if you don't enforce it, there's goner be people swimming there. MR. CALLAHAN: Oh! We'll definitely enforce it. MEMBER DOYEN: What's your projected hour, 8:00 o'clock? MR. CALLAHAN: 8:00 o'clock is set down. Well, the basket ball court and the shuffle, their all opened until 10 or 11. Their out there until late. MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, I was going to say, if there's somebody playing basket ball, and their all hot and sweaty their going to jump over that 4 foot fence. MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah, but certainly Bob, there's going to be more police than say if this were a motel. MEMBER VILLA: I mean you have people who actually own the motel. MEMBER DINIZiO: Well, you have people who actually, you have people who own the place, they own that place ---. MEMBER VILLA: You got 20 Units there that's a motel, and a you know, you can't control those kind of people. It would be difficult. MR. CALLAHAN: You have around, you have around 6 owners that don't rent that stay there almost every weekend and then you've got the occasional owners ...... Page 62 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: So, you have 36 Units then that basically can be rented. You're dealing with a transit trade, that's the thing I'm saying. A, motels are difficult to police. MEMBER DINIZIO: What would be the objection to a person swimming at 10:00 o'clock at night if no-one on the property objects. MEMBER VILLA: Because tl~ey wouldn't have a lifeguard or anything else. MEMBER DINIZIO: Right, but that's their liabilities, certainly not MEMBER VILLA: And you've got, you've got concerns of noise and everything else, your neighbors. MR. CALLAHAN: Across the street down on the beach part there's a sign there "Swim at your own risk", that's, that's what the Health Department wants on that too. So, I mean they can go down on the Sound and swim too. MEMBER VILLA: That's, that's put there by the owner generally, the Health Department says "No Swimming" and you're suppose to enforce it. Swimming at your own risk does not take the obligation away from you or the responsibility because the Health Department (people talking at one time) They want it posted "No Swimming" and they generally want it enforced. That's the way it's suppose to be. MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, gentlemen have a lovely Christmas and we'll see you on January 4th and will put this thing to bed and you guys can build it in March. Hearing no further comment I'll make a motion recessing the hearing to the next regular scheduled meeting. MEMBER VILLA: Second. ,e 63 - Hearing Transcript ~ular Meeting of December 7, 1994 Juthold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye. Transcribed from tape recordings. LF