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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-05/04/1994 HEARINGPUBLIC HEARINGS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD May 4, 19~L[ (7:30 P.M. Hearings Commenced) P R E S E N T: HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, Chairman SERGE DOYEN, Member JAMES DINIZIO, JR. Member ROISERT A. VILLA, Member RICHARD C. ~VILTON, Member LINDA KOWALSKI, Clerk-Assistant to Board INDEX APPLN. # APPLICANT PAGES 4223 4236 4232 4235 4231 4217 4234 4238 4208 4235 4203SE 4237 4218 & 4220 CLAUDE SHER ............................... ELEFTHERIOS PAPPAS ..... ~-~-~q'¢~' 3-6 6-8 THOMAS PALMER 9-12 KIM FALLON AND CYNTHIA SUTRYK ............. 12-25 ..... ~/Y~ 25-29 ALEX AND AFRODITE BOUKAS..//.~'~ THOMAS PULS AND DONNA RICCO.~7:~:/:~ ...... 29-29 ALEX AND MARION WIPF ..... ~.~/.~.~F~ .... 29-51 JON C. KERBS· ............................. 51-54 KIM CAMPBELL ...... ~...................~-/~ ~/¢/i~? ....55-62 KIM FALLON AND CYNTHIA SUTRYK ............. 62-63 ROBERT E. BIDWELL V~"~'~ ......................... 63-70 ROBERT PELLEGRINI......I°.~-!:.. ..........¢ ~ 5~/~/~70-74.. JOHN STRIPE ......... 2~.~ .......... F/~...74-80 Page 3 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~, 19~u~ Southold Town Board of Appeals PUBLIC HEARINGS: 7:32 P.M. Appl. No. 4223 CLAUDE SHER. This is a request for a variance under Article XXIII, Section 100-231, based upon the April 7, 199L[ Notice of Disapproval from the Building Inspector for a building permit to erect fencing around a proposed tennis-court structure which will exceed the maximum height requirement of the code when located in the front yard. Location of Property: 1480 Old Woods Path, Southold, N.Y.: County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-87-1-21. (CHAIRMAN opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record). THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a sketch of a survey parcel lies with several other parcels on a private road and the tennis-court is definitely in the front yard area approximately 35 feet from one right-of-way leading down to several other houses and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area; Is there somebody who would like to be heard? MRS. SHER: Where the tennis-court is located its somewhere in the woods and obviously can't be seen from, from the road. It has evergreens on each side and it's located where its it has the least damaging between the ..... , they don't MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. Could I ask you to state your name for the record, Ma'am? CLAUDE SHER: MR. CHAIRMAN: fence? I'm Claude Sher. Mrs. Sher.~ What is the approximate height of the Page Lt - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May u,, 191~ $outhold Town Board of Appeals MRS. SHER: I think it's 10 feet. MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, will the entire structure be enclosed or will it be opened, just closed on both ends with a center portion? MRS. SHER: I think the way, I think it had a copy of the ....... fencing from the contractor and I think it was llke ....... so it must be probably no where on the sides and higher at the ends. That's the way I understood it at the contract. We had a copy of that. MRS. KOWALSKI: Yes, it's in the file. You just have to MR. CHAIRMAN: I reviewed it sometime ago and it's impossible to keep on top of all of these. Will there by any lighting to this tennis-court? MRS. SHER: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any questions to this nice lady concerning this application? Thank you. MEMBER VILLA: Why was that site chosen? It's so far, how was that site chosen, it's so far from the house, it's so far from everything. MRS. SHER: It's an area where there's the least you know it's an area with some odd things. MR. CHAIRMAN: Anybody else like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? MEMBER DINIZIO: Can we speak common on this application? MR. CHAIRMAN: The right-of-way? MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, memoranda. Can we do something, you know we"re going to attach this to the'part decision, or? MR. CHAIRMAN: No, we, we're not, it's not up to us to turn. There, there was a question in refer6nce to the condition of the right-of-way with all of the little potholes in it, Going ................ Page 5 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. SHER: I think, I think the repairs that, you know we just moved in llke in September and I think there's going to be a ...... here. I think they fixed the road in June. MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh! They do after the winter? Every June? MRS. SH£R: Yeah, yeah. I think that's the way it was done last year. OK. It would be up to the building inspector to require that so all we're really doing is just keeping you aware that the right-of-way really doesn't meet 288 Standards because of its condition at this time. I mean MRS. SHER: I understand. It's not up to me. I wish they would fix it. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. Do you have an something of that nature? MRS. SHER: I think a Judge Snellenburg. association down there or He was in charge of it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, OK. We, we know Judge Snellenburg.very well. MRS. KOWALSK:. Tell her of the private decision though that affects all of them. MRS. SHER: I know, I just got a bill for last year that's ........ so I don't know if .......... for this year. MR. CHAIRMAN: There is a prior decision from this board which says the right-of-way has to be continuously maintained. OK, and that means that all of the property owners as you had just mentioned that you received a bill from, will have to join together and repair the road because. MRS. SHER: I wish they did it twice a year. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, yeah,~ because if you have any type of car or any emergency vehicle go down there, it's, I mean it's going to take Page 6 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals not only twice as long but whatever was standing at the time you went down as you know is going to be all over the place by the time you get to your house. MRS. SHER: It's not up to me ---. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right, OK, does anybody want to address this decision now? Is there anybody else who would llke to speak? I didn't see any hands so we will go back and readdress this. Do you want to address this now or do you want to wait? MEMBER DINIZlO: I'm ready to address it. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, make the motion. MEMBER WILTON: I'll make the motion granted as applied. 7:38 P.M. MR. CHAIRMAN: This is on behalf of ELEFTHERIOS PAPPAS and OTHERS. Appl. No. 4236. I have a copy of the sketch of the gate which the post line, posts are approximately 10 feet 5 inches or 10-1/2 feet and the gate itself is approximately 8 feet at its highest point. We've been down to look at it and we have a sketch of the survey or a copy of the survey from Rodrick Van Tuyl indicating the position of the placement of the gate and we have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who like to be heard on this one? This is the Pappas application. Mr. Bruer how are you? MR. BRUER: How are you? Rudolph Bruer on behalf of the applicant, Mr. Chairman, Members of ~he Board, I believe we have here a situation where the fence is I believe in accordance with the height of Page 7 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals the ordinance. We're talking about the gate and I believe the gate is really, sets in conformance really to the area, the a, I think this area was originally developed on the McCann Estate and they had used it for a horse recreation and, and the motif or set-up of the, of the. that area of fencing was established at that time. I believe my clients came along, and on the easterly part of that area came along with the idea of putting up a gate, In their mind that was in accordance with the scheme of things as it existed, I believe that's basically what we'd like is to be able to have this gate and it was done I believe in all innocences. It wasn't done to put up there and say well we have it and then make the appeal, I think people come from the city and really weren't aware of the 4 foot ordinance they professed. Outside along the front of the property is the 4 foot fence required by the town and again we're talking about the gate in accordance with the ordinance. I'd like to say that the benefit of leaving the fence there is substantial to the, to the applicant. Requirement of, of not allowing it, does not hurt the town in terms of the health, safety and welfare of the neighborhood, It's not going to change the character of the neighborhood. I think it's in conformity with it, In fact to do anything other than leave it there would be to change the character of that area in terms of (interruption), It's not a very substantial I think variance of the ordinance and it's not going to have an impact on the physical environment of the area for the town, I believe and request that the board grant the application, MR, CHAIRMAN: OK, Let's jb'st see if there's any questions then Mr, Brauer, Any questions of Mr, Brauer, anybody? None? Page 8 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19erL~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: The gate as it is now overtowers the gate next to it which is att foot gate, is there a reason why you put an 8 foot gate next to a 4 foot gate? One to the west I'm referring to. MR. BRUER: I understand what you're saying. Not particularly, this was the one that we had an opportunity to have and it was substantial and as you can see it's a substantial structure and that's what they put up. It wasn't intended to overpower anything. In fact, if anything was intended to, to really blend in with it. Obviously, I think the color should be changed, but. MR. CHAIRMAN: But this gate was made, right, this wasn't taken from some antique? MR. BRUER: I honestly don't know the answer. MR. CHAIRMAN: It looks like it was made. MEMBER VILLA: Is that the only new gate? I mean, - .... does it have any historic value? MR. CHAIRMAN: That was my question. MR. BRAUER: I don't know. I could find out. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, may, maybe you want to do that, if you wouldn't mind. MR. BRUER: You want to know if it's historic or? MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, ask them if they bought it from somebody or was it built? It appears to be new. It appears to be built. We'd appreciate that, Mr. Bruer. Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak either in favor or against this application? I see no hands - I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. Page 9 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19{~~, Southold Town Board of Appeals 7:~,5 P.M. MR. CHAIRMAN: Appl. No. 4232 Behalf of THOMAS PALMER and JOAN GIBBS. (Read Legal Notice) We have a copy of the survey indicating the specific parcels as they exists and as the lines are redrawn dated February 23, 1994 by Roderick Van Tuyl P.C. and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who would llke to be heard on behalf of this? How do you do Sir. Can I ask you to use a mike and state your name please? MR. PALMER: Yeah, good evening. I'm Thomas Palmer. Since this time I purchased the parcel next door that had Joan Gibbs name on it which was the parcel at the time. MR. CHAIRMAN: So you own both of them now.? MR. PALMER: I own both parcels at this time, right. The real reason for the lot llne changes, the lot that was owned by Joan Gibbs was a summer home and still is and it just happened to have a large piece of property on it. I'm a year round residence of the other house and on much smaller property. I'm dying for storage space and ample space, trailers. I have no access to the back yard even where the truck is. I didn't, I would not take down oak trees to do that. My owning the property on an access to the yard on the lot .... have more storage. I have a crawl space there with only a 2,000 house. I'm not looking to build anything or to add to anything or detract anything just to use the property for the year round house. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. In the year round house was presently on lot 2 which is now 21,200 square"feet is what your requesting and the proposed 12,200 is the one that you refer to as the summer cottage? Page 10 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19q~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. summer house .... . MR.CHAIRMAN. While you're standing there Mr. Palmer the Board if they have any specific questions. MEMBER VILLA: I, I'd like to see a survey one. MR. CHAIRMAN: PALMER: Right, that would be the smaller --- that would be the let's just ask because I never did see Maybe you can explain to Mr. Villa Mr. Palmer what did you have existing? MR. PALMER: The existing, my house had a frontage of U~l feet. The summer cottage had an existing of 82 feet. So in turn what I'm looking to do is to have the 82 feet, keep the L[1 feet for the summer house, but I leave them 80 something I believe was in the back. Their parcel, my parcel obviously will become larger but the parcel that I'm leaving will be larger than my original one was. In other words there both going in the right direction of size. MEMBER VILLA: And you own them both? Mr. PALMER: That's correct. MEMBER VILLA: And you're going to sell the other after you do this? MR. PALMER: I don~t think so. I think we're going to keep that for the family if we can work it out, that's basically what the idea was. I got a lot of nieces and nephews, things like that. MEMBER VILLA: So you'd end up with the garage then in that area? MR. PALMER: That's what I need the storage for. - .... basement with a crawl space and to do better house. MEMBER VILLA: Right. He's-going down there without the survey. I couldnlt quite figure out what you're trying to do. Page 11 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May L~, 19q~, Southold Town Board of Appeals MRS. KOWALSKI: Just call me next time we'll get you a copy, alright. MR. PALMER: OK. MR. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody else have any questions for Mr. Palmer? It makes a big difference when you're looking at it from here and having you here I assure you. MEMBER WILTON: What is the new side yard on the older building? MR. PALMER: The new side yard that I~m adding to I~11 have oh. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, the, the, I~11 answer that question. MR. WILTON: The one that you're taking from? MR. PALMER: Oh! that, I, I don't have an ordinance. MR. WILTON: Preferably. MR. PALMER: Oh! like 18 feet or something llke this. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, it's 21. MR. PALMER: 21, OK. I know I can still drive a vehicle back, back to that backyard also. That's what I want to make sure of. Yeah, because these houses both are pretty close to MR. CHAIRMAN: the side yard. MR. PALMER: I~, 3 feet off the other property line. MR. CHAIRMAN: Some of the problems that you have when you deal with those somewhat narrow lots when they taper back. Any other questions of this gentleman? Does anybody in the audience have any questions of this gentleman concerning this application? This is the Palmer application. Does anybody have any objection to addressing this at this time? MEMBER VILLA: No. MR. CHAIRMAN: No! Who would like to make a motion? Page 12 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19e/4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER WILTON: I'll make the motion. MEMBER VILLA: I second it. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye. ***APPLICATION NO. 4235 - KlM FALLON and CYNTHIA SUTRYK. 3:55 P.M. (The Chairman read the Legal Notice for the record). This is a request for variance under Article III, Section 100-33, based upon the April 4, 1944 Notice of Disapproval for a permit to construct accessory building in Soundview Avenue, 1000-94-2-5. the front yard area. Location of Property, 3200 Mattituck N.Y., County Tax Map Parcel MR. CHAIRMAN: A copy of the survey of the property on this property exists a cement foundation and the location of the proposed 22 x 24 foot barn. Along with that we have a sketch of a paddock corral area which protrudes into the front yard area and is not necessarily the case of this application but I'm mentioning it because it is used with the application and I ha~ a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Ma'am would Page 13 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19qu~ Southold Town Board of Appeals you like to be heard? state your name. CYNTHIA SUTRYK: I We have to grill somebody tonight, so will you came up first. I'm Cynthia SUTRYK. I guess technically the proper ah proposed barn is in the front yard but we do have 5 acres and the way our house is situated it gives our back yard in closer to someone else~s back yard and where we wanted to put the horses and the way the property goes we felt that this would be the most desirable position for the barn, for the horses and pretty much least offensive for the neighbors or the surrounding neighbors. That's why we're proposing it, the corral of course would only be used as for a riding rink, it wouldn't be degrazed. If they, they'd have turn out paddocks, that would be for them mostly, but the rest of the property would be for them to ride out. MR. CHAIRMAN: And the turn out paddocks are to the south of the barn as shown on the survey? CYNTHIA SUTRYK: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: You are aware of the letter that we received from the surrounding property owners? CYNTHIA SUTRYK: Yes, I have two letters. MRS. KOWALSKI: There were two letters. MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh! there were two letters. I meant the most recent one that we received. I guess whatever one CYNTHIA SUTRYK: Yes, their asking something about the 100 feet with a corral. Now, that's, that's if it's above ~ foot. You can put a fence in your front yard if it's tt roost without a variance. MR. CHAIRMAN: I~ foot, right. Page 14 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals CYNTHIA SUTRYK: These fences will not be above 4 foot. We don't find that, we don't feel that the fences would also be undesirable either or the horses for that matter. We have gone through, past the .... problems. Horse farms llke the Big E, things like that, they have to 6 foot fences we would not require that problem. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well that's because it's not really a turn out paddock. CYNTHIA SUTRYK: Right. It would just be a riding area. MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. So all you're doing is restricting it for that particular size to indicate that that's where the area is. CYNTHIA SUTRYK: Where we would want to ride, yes and as far as riding on the property we didn't feel that we're restricted to ride, we thought we could ride any place. People do ride their horses through our property as it is now. We had no idea, we don't feel that there's a problem with that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any questions of this lady? The approximate height of the building as proposed? CYNTHIA SUTRYK: The height is 18, one of the letters they want is 17. The architect did 18. If that's offensive then we'll make it 17 as long as the architect feels that it would be OK. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well 18 feet is what your permitted. I don't see this as a particular problem. CYNTHIA SUTRYK: OK. Yeah, they want 17. MR. CHAIRMAN: What, what will the second story be, be used for? CYNTHIA SUTRYK: It's, we're going to make it look like the house so it's just going to be used for 'the storage of the hay and going to come out into a hip roof to where the house would be and also they said to Page 15 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19q4 Southold Town Board of Appeals limit to 2 horses. We don't really want to have to be limited to 2 horses. You know, if, as long as we keep it fairly, as long as we keep it clean and to all the town codes we don't feel that we should have to be limited because if you do put horses in your back yard you're not limited. You can have as many as you want so long as you don't breed. MR. CHAIRMAN: You are aware though, however, if you do increase the height of that fence and that the turn out, the turn out, I'm sorry, I'm referring to the corral area because we can't call it paddock because it's not really a paddock, it's a corral area. If you do increase that you will be required to come back because of the structure. OK. Any other questions of this lady? Let's see what develops throughout the hearing. CYNTHIA 5UTRYK: OK. Did you want the barn ..... at the barn? MR. CHAIRMAN: Do I have a copy of the barn? MRS. KOWALSKI: Yeah, I see the building plans are in there. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, there in there. CYNTHIA SUTRYK: .... and our back yard would be, if we were made to move it, our back yard would be adjacent to our .... ? MEMBER VILLA: I have a question while you're there. You said you didn't want to be living with 2 horses and yet the barn only have two stalls. CYNTHIA SUTRYK: It has 2-1/2 like a pony or something llke that. If we were to increase to other horses we would definitely have to come back for a new variance. Since we do only have 2 .... , but we do have room for a pony. We have quite a few people in the house and if they want to ride we like to not ...... , Page 16 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May /4, 19q/4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, as I said let's see what develops throughout the hearing. Would anybody like, anybody else like to speak in favor of this application? In favor or against. Now, we'll go with the against. Sorry, usually I say the same thing together. DAVID DiSALVO: I'm David DiSalvo, we're in the property next labelled Title Zimnowskl. You have the second letter then dated May /4, that we've given you? MR. CHAIRMAN: RIGHT. DAVID DiSALVO: We would like to emphasize that the time value of the house, the yard is opened to use, practically live on the deck in the summer. Before we purchased the house we went through a lot of investigation as to what the (too much noise) what the house in the back as that land surrounds us and we were given two instances by Town Hall that that frontage bordering our land would have the protection of 130 feet, We feel that what they're planning to do back there is going to adversely affect us. The south eastern winds particularly, that sweep up over that farm land, hit right on to our deck. Any keeping horses or manurer in that location with a will have the proposed riding rink is going to effect us. We have enough stories of people who have horses near them that they'll tell us about misery of flies and odors. Also, the manner in which they're going about this we feel is as if it's an accomplish fact and that they just went and poured this foundation in the front yard. This is after Gary Fish warned them two weeks prior that they would need a variance. Now they have no permit and the~, and certainly they had plans, we saw the foundation. It's not something you just pour as an after thought. Page 17 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, Southold Town Board of Appeals It's kind of like getting it by here which we take objection to. It's denying us to process by the method. Also, we'd like to bring up that they knew when they purchased the land that it would have limitations of the front yard and their choosing to create their so-called hardship by placing their house where they have. I don't think they really have demonstrated any unique hardship that would grant them this variance. On the contrary I think we've outlined a number of, of cogent reasons why they should be denied them. Also, may I add also, their proposed to use, to use this as a riding rink, OK. While they're claiming the L[ foot fence would not be against any ordinance having those horses if that's the way it's going to be we would like the variance denied just to keep them from having horses because if they're going to have horses in that rink for riding that is certainly going to detriment to us. As it is they drive around their property ...... which are unlicensed, overland vehicles which are unlicensed and ski mobiles which are unlicensed. It turned our back yard and the doctor and other neighbors who will confirm this into an amusement park. This area, all of us get along quite nicely in this area, is quite, peaceful neighbors. Wanting to add to that a riding rink and horses is going to break all of us. MR. CHAIRMAN: This board is not without situations like this. I, I just want to say, sympathy in reference to reiterate however, this is Is there any type of screening that could be required a 5 acre parcel. here? DAVID DiSALVO: No, because our land rises up. The elevation would almost be impossible and then if we put screening we basically take Page 18 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~, 191~L[ Southold Town Board of Appeals away all of our lot view. It looks out over the farm field ....... . We worked very hard to get where we .... . We just purchased this home in 1992. MR. CHAIRMAN: I understand. I know the Zimnowski house. Does anyone on the Board have any questions of this gentleman regarding his request or statements? DAVID DiSALVO: We, we are, we are willing to reach a fair compromise to allow them we have no problem with the accessory structure. We're willing to reach a compromise to allow them that accessory structure. What we would like to have them keep the horses in that corral within a boundary of, of ........... to present this. MR. CHAIRMAN: Remember the corral is not necessarily before us. OK, and that was the. DAVID DiSALVO: That, that would let them have an ample riding rink still and at least shift some of that burden on to them. Basically what they want to do is treat their front yard as the rear yard and shift horses out of their line of sight and smell into ours. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, thank you. Is there anybody else. I don't know why I'm presupposing this. Sir? ROBERT HARIRI: Thank you Mr. Chairman. My name is Robert Hariri . I and my wife own the property directly south of the applicants. In, I, I must stress that ........ I am in complete agreement with Mr. DiSalvo. I have some additional concern which are that the placement of a structure of the house, horses may in fact be limited to two horses and one pony by the current ~wners. However, I am concerned that in the future, subsequent owners may intend to expand that structure and Page 19 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals expand the number of horses that they have on their property and as someone who moved out to to this area for a quite and serenity in views my concern is that a working horse farm might evolve which would significantly reduced our .... to enjoy that property. Also, the additional concern I have is that in placing the foundation as they have are prior to the issuance of a variance and without consulting any of the neighbors as to a preference and so on llke my fear is that a, a, this reflects on, on future actions and activities. I, again, llke Mr. DiSalvo and the neighbors are willing to reach a compromise to allow them to enjoy their property as they should be able to. However, movement of the existing structure and corral to the south would begin to encroach upon my, the site of my well. In as Mr. DiSalvo has probably mentioned in the letter, the levels of nitrates in the ground were sufficiently high. That additional load due to animals might in fact contaminate wells beyond, a, a, portability. I also have a, a request that we have an opportunity to see what what plans may exist for, for a barn structure, simply to see if that will match a, the, the ....... nature of the property and the home. Since that particular and the home are in a direct line of site that I value quite a bit, I am concern about those issues. MR. CHAIRMAN: Could I just ask you, have you spoken to them at all concerning this7 ROBERT HARIRI: No, I have not. The, in fact, the, the, barn foundation was placed and then after the fact, I received a request for a variance and then, notice ~of this meeting. So it did take me by surprise and I think we all would like to be good neighbors and come Page 20 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~t4 Southold Town Board of Appeals to some compromise which we could all coexist with their problem. However, the existing neighbors are extremely interested in maintaining the serenity in the quite nature of the area and the addition of horses and a, a, as Mr. DiSalvo mentioned other recreational type vehicles is a concern. I might also stress that all the property surrounding the Fallon and Sutryk land is privately owned and I personally would not like horses to be walking across my property in my absence and I don't think that there's any existing right-of-way or passage for the horses to move to some opened preaccessible region for a, a, riding. A, that would mean that they would be limited to riding within their corral so I, I assume that there would be certain amount of activity. Just to reiterate since the current owners' name in fact move on in the future I feel, that if a variance is approved for this project that there be some limitation be placed on the number of animals that can be housed and maintained there, since this is residential property and taxed at residential rate, not an agricultural rate, I am concerned that this might in fact evolve into a much more ominous and over populated horse farm. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, that, the only way we can restrict it is by the size of the building and that's at 22 x 2~, at this particular time There really is nothing in the code in reference to the housing in keeping of these types of animals to my knowledge. ROBERT HARIRI: Is it possible that you can issue a variance if the, if the owners agree to restrict them to some number of animals. MR. CHAIRMAN: Not to my i~'nowledge. There was a decision done in 1978 for a gentleman who owns 3-1-2 acres in Mattituck by the name of Page 21 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 191~ Southold Town Board of Appeals Brian Sheehan. At that time total animals that were allowed on a 3-1/2 acre parcel were, you really should sit down and read it. It was a phenomenal amount. 188. ROBERT HARIRI: Is there any guide lines? Do they, do they do any guide lines for a the different zoned property? As I mentioned before, it's just that this is, the subdivision was sold as residential property. MR. CHAIRMAN: Were, were there any restrictions placed on the property at the time the subdivision was made? ROBERT HARIRI: I, I don't know. MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you have conveyance and restrictions in your deed? You don't know? ROBERT HARIRI: I have on my deed. MR. CHAIRMAN: I, I'm not being you know sarcastic. ROBERT HARIRI: On my deed, I do. I do not know if that is also selected on a, on the other owners' deed and, and we've all tried as I said before to compromise. I was requested prior to their purchase of their property to forfeit my right to a, a, high access to right-of-way on their property which has e~isted for a, a, hundreds of years and I was willing to do that but again since there is a private road there right now which has to be maintained by the owners I have concerns if a large number of horses existed on that property and were walked up and down that asphalt paved private road damage done to that would have to be repaired and I would have to incur that cost personally. So, since there is~no other access for them to riding areas Page 22 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May L[, 191~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals my real concern is what their horse farm? MR. CHAIRMAN: The neighbors intent is with the, with the existing bring up many, many concerns, some of which are pertinent to the case, some of which are not. I certainly would like to see you get together with these people and you know say that you have reached an amiable agreement. Unfortunately, in past that hasn't been too successful with sending people out in the hall and doing that OK, but let's see what develops throughout the hearing and we'll see what happens. ROBERT HARIRI: I, I think we would be opened to an opportunity to reach an agreement with them. Like I said, we had not been notified or contacted by them prior to this meeting and I did feel that was a, a somewhat inappropriate since a, we, we've attempted in the past to work in a cohesive way. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak against the applicant? ROBERT HARIRI: May I also at this time ask what guaranty would we have if they would use that turn out not to have keeping the animals there and having. MR. CHAIRMAN: You mean in the, in the corral area? ROBERT HARIRI: Yes. Do we have any guaranty that their staying in the riding area but that's the way they'll graze? MR. CHAIRMAN: I, you know, ROBERT HARIRI: Be kept and be kept? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, I can 'bnly say this, going to that a 4 foot fence is not keep a large animal in and that's the reason why we made Page 23 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~u, Southold Town Board of Appeals that, I, I, you know expressed that concern when I was talking to this lady so you know, really it, it's meaningless when you talking about a large horse. I mean a large horse can step over a I~ foot fence like there's no tomorrow, so I mean, that's certainly you know something that I, that you should be aware of. I mean and again I'm not saying it sarcastically, I'm just in the matter of. MADELEINE LAVEGLIA: My name is Madeleine Laveglia. My husband and I own the property that's labelled Kavlaris on your list. We're the newest member of said group and a you know, I had spoken, I can reiterate almost everything that they've said. I don't want to repeat it again but, one of the things is, I did speak with a Mrs. Fallon on just one occasion when I first met her I saw her ....... go down and she had told me that they do plan to have at that time she told me just to have one horse and they were all planning to get another horse to keep that horse company, a little horse. She said that's all their planning to have which is you know, two horses is probably OK. I am really concern about the future. Um, you know their children may grow, they may sell the house and you know, they may keep the place very well and you know clean and everything but we have a pool and a deck which borders that on the back and that's what we've been noticing it says here, the wind does blow up over that land and you know we plan to spend quite a bit of time outside and ..... concern that if they do have a lot of animals that it's, it's just going to be turning into something that we didn't imagine it to be. You know, we're very opened to you know, or'agreement that they can limit it and the barn is closest to our property. So, but it's a rural area and we're Page 2~ - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals going to have barns so we're not that concerned about it but we are concerned about the number of animals you know, etcetera. I don't know if there's any of you that can be reached, but we do have a lot of concerns. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else that would like to speak? Is there anything you'd like to do and say in rebuttal? Well, what I would ideally like you to do is to go out with these people and express your concerns and see if you can resolve the situation but I'm not forcing you to do so. OK. It's entirely up to you. It, it's certainly something that has been done in the past as I said, we have not been greatly successful in doing it recently but I can see that these are very reasonable people from their discussion. I mean, I don't know how you feel about it, but it's up to you. See the problem we run into is you now come back and they come back and we continue on a point counter point situation and it becomes counter productive, where if, you could possibly assist them in their concerns and say we have arrived at a happy medium and because they probably have never met you before and that type of situation, and as I said there does not appear to be anybody unreasonable here. You can explain it on the corral area why you want to have it placed in that particular situation and how it is 120 feet from their property line but you only intend to use for riding purposes so on and so forth. CYNTHIA SUTRYK: OK. MR. CHAIRMAN: Why don't you do that and we'll, we'll regroup in about 20 minutes and put the thing to bed. CYNTHIA SUTRYK: OK. Alright. Page 25 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~t4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN. Thank you. See how it works out. Alright, I'll recess this hearing for 20 minutes. I need a motion gentlemen. MEMBER VILLA: I'll make a motion. MEMBER WILTON: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor. MEMBERS: Aye. 8:17 P.M. MR. CHAIRMAN: The next appeal No. 4231 on behalf of Alex and Afrodite Boukas. Let me just deal with one at a time. Mr. Raynor do you want to deal with these folks together or shall we deal with just that one issue first? HENRY RAYNOR: I think we can deal with both together (more than one person speaking). MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. Let me just read the public hearing. Thank you. OK, it's appeal number 4231 SE which is a Special Exception request for the same applicants under Article VII, Section 100-71B(2) for the proposed conversion existing single family dwelling to professional offices in this Residential-Office Zone District. Copy of the interior floor plan, I have a copy of the survey produced by John Metzer, Peconic Surveyors, dated February 18, 1994, indicating the approximate parking plan and the existing 2, ;2 story house which has been there for many years and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. We're ready. Can we grill you tonight? HENRY RAYNOR: My name is Henry Raynor and I'm here on behalf of Dr. and Mrs. Boukas. Dr. Boukas practices presently on Sound Avenue, rented area, Dr. Sunshine's office and he's desirous of permanently setting a residence here within the Township. As the Page 26 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals Board is well aware the lot that he has purchased a half acre parcel as preexisted in the Zoning Code and our Zoning Ordinance on the house as also preexisted all of our codes we're going forward contingent upon this Board's decision tonight. We have applications pending before the Planning Board, the Department of Health Services as well as the Board of New York Department of Transportation. - ..... specific as to the conversion you have a floor plan, conversions residence, 2 office. The residential office will have no visual effect with perhaps the exception of the handicapped ramp which we are still locating which will be put at the rear of the existing dwelling actually on the north west corner. You may have a rendering there showing it on the south side that is not correct. That, plus the parking as prescribed by the Town Ordinance would be the only changes on the parking. I believe this application is consistent with the intent of the residential and office Section of the 170, it's a transition parcel between residents and business, it's similar in nature and in character to the property to the east which is Dr. Hinsch's office which I'm sure well aware of and finally the applicant is very clear and understands that the addition for this conversion is that the building will not longer be a residence as was cited in the Board's letter of March 17, 1994. I'd be happy to answer any questions the Board may ask. MR. CHAIRMAN: What's the upstairs going to be used for then? MR. RAYNOR: I beg your pardon. MR. CHAIRMAN: What's the second story going to be used for then? MR. RAYNOR: Storage. Page 27 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~tt Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Just storage. Anybody here have any questions of Mr. Raynor? I've known the house for many years. MEMBER VILLA: What extent do you plan on rebuilding the building? It appears to be fairly old and I don't know about its structural qualities. MR. RAYNOR: It will be respaced and brought up, I don't know if you know where his present office is that he rents but he's had several work done he and Dr. Sunshine on that building. That was an old funeral home at one point and I think that pretty well speaks for the type of operation and his profession and reflection of that. He's desirous of landscaping and changing the provision for parking so that the bulk of the parking is in the rear, on placing it, it needs a face lifting. It's been run down, it hasn't had a residence now in about seven or eight months. MEMBER VILLA: The parking requirements will be addressing with the Planning Board? MR. RAYNOR: That's correct. MR. CHAIRMAN: Are they fairly happy with the parking plan that you have, are they going to require curb cuts or? MR. RAYNOR: To date, the existing curb cuts we've petition the DOT to accept the state is a little slow in responding to some of these things. The Planning Board has indicated that on a perusal not a specific recommendation that they are reasonably pleased with what exists. MEMBER VILLA: In looking at"the floor plan and you have no entrances to the front of the building as it exists now. Page 28 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. RAYNOR: That's what their hoping to alleviate. They would rather leave a false front. MEMBER VILLA. Right. That, that would Room A or something or other so I would be coming into operation in assume that that's not going to be used. That you would come into through. MR. RAYNOR: We want it to appear as though there is still up front to, to the front yard so it you know, it appears as a normal home. MEMBER VILLA: But your entrance would be basically the parking area on the side in the back? MR. RAYNOR: That's correct. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. Let's see what else develops. Thank you Sir. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Anybody have any objection to this application? None, to either one? Dealing with the Special Exception first again readdressing the Special Exception for the use of this building for a doctor's office it is within keeping as Mr. Raynor mentioned I offer a resolution granting it as applied for. MEMBER VILLA: Second. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye. MR. CHAIRMAN: As for the request under Article VII, Section 100-71B(2) which requires 40,000 square feet this building is probably 60 years old and I offer that as a resolution granting it to the reduction that exists now sinc6 it's preexisting. MEMBER VILLA: Second. Page 29 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 1994 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye. 8:26 P.M.- Mr. CHAIRMAN: Appl. No. It217 - Thomas Puls and Donna Ricco. This is a carry over from the March 2, 199~t application. Is there anybody here from Brlarcllff to deal with this? OK. I see no one here, is there anybody that would have, anything they'd like to say regarding this application? I see no hands, I make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye. 8:27 P.M.-MR. CHAIRMAN: The next appeal is in behalf of Alex and Marion Wipf. It's Appeal No. ~23~. The Legal Notice reads as follows: I have a copy of pictures on the property of the deteriorated garage as it exists closer to the house. I have a copy of a survey which is originally dated June 3, 1969 and revised on May 13, 1993, indicating a request of a replacement garage on the front yard area of approximately 18 feet from West Creek Avenue, a garage of approximately 24 x 26 and 3 feet from the north westerly or northerly property line and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. We're ready. Just state your name for the record and we'll grill you. Page 30 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May /4, 19~/~ Southold Town Board of Appeals ALEX WIPF: Yes, I'm Alex Wipf and that's my wife and I'd like everybody to know that my neighbors have absolutely no objection to this, they love us, we love them. MR. CHAIRMAN: And you're not putting any horses in this garage? ALEX WlPF: No horses, no nothing which ---. Primarily I'm looking to create a very large garden and there looking forward to ....... flowers from them, so. It's a water front piece of property. It's an odd shape property, you say 2200 feet but it's actually 88 feet on the water and there's an extra 30 feet on the road side and there's an extra 24 feet on the north side of the line rather than the south side of the line, so it creates a, a, odd shape piece that extends up like that. What I'm trying to do, I mean you can't build in the back yard, water front piece of property and they just made the new law that said that you can do in the front yard so what I'm trying to do is take advantage of the extra space that's up there to, to build a garage. I placed the building in between the utility pole that exists up there on an old growth made trying to preserve the front, at least the front yard foliage and as I said I'm, I'm an artist by trade I, I sometimes work in, on flowers and try arrangements, things like that. I'm trying to take advantage of what I have to basically support myself if it comes down to it. My wife has just recently been injured in an accident. She's not yet available to the office work she used to do, so we're trying to, kind of this is a one time situation the garage was damaged. You know it looks lousy now and it was really damaged in the storm of 92 and it's gotten, it's, it's 'just not done, so this is kind of a one time opportunity to replace it and I'm trying to create this garden Page 31 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~/~ Southold Town Board of Appeals space at this large garden spot to raise flowers. Exotic varieties and things that I think may have some value. MR. CHAIRMAN: You mean in between the house and the garage? MR. WIPF: Yeah. It's a very protective location. The house it protects you from the south westerly wind, the, there's a, a what's it's name, a property, a, a town drainage area, 15 foot town drainage area, it's wooded, to the north of it and that wooded area protects it from the north west wind where the garage ..... protects it from the north east wind so it's, it's an ideal location, it's the sunny spot of the property. I, I also like to create on the, on the, there's a downstairs bedroom that that's on the north side. I'd llke to, to build a small rafter for both of our parents and eventually for ourselves you know to sit and look over the garden. It's a nice protected location, so basically we're trying to take advantage of the space that we have to create you know, an esthetic environment that, that would be pleasing. What I've done is I~ve keyed it off the, the setback, I keyed it off a building that exists down the road within 300 feet of the property that's like 16 feet, 17 feet from the, from the road. MR. CHAIRMAN: You're referring to that one garage, that one, one car garage? MR. WIPF: Yeah, it, used to be Miller's garage. Now it's, and then it was Falkner, Falkner and then it's, it's sold to I can't remember the different name, but it's, it's well within the character of the neighborhood so it doesn't really change anything, you know it's not like a, like a grand adventur~ or anything like this, it's not going to set any kind of .... it's, it's well established to use, especially Page 32 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, Southold Town Board of Appeals with water front property to use property in that kind of way. What I'm trying to do is basically create a, a, you know leave as much of the trees around us I possibly can and a, and yet have what I want. I, I think it's, it's the most intelligent place to place the garage on the property. I don't want to place the back you know right next to the house. First of all I, I don't think it would be a, it would be by code you can do that and besides that I mean it's going to be it's going to have. all the gasoline driven engines you know that, that are, are garaged now and I don't, I just don't think it's a good idea to place that kind of a building right up next to the house. There are new codes about it but I don't want to put it there anyway and any, any place other than that or any place that's kind of closer down to it's code really infringes because the property line is on an angle as you slide the garage down and get it towards where code says it, it really blocks most of what I'm trying to create which is this, this garden space. No one has said anything to me about it being a bad idea. I, I think it's the most intelligent use of the property. I, I know it's a variance, but it doesn't seem to be an earth shaking variance. I don't think it's going to change the character of the neighborhood. I think people are going to like looking at the garden. You know unless you have some questions that I haven't thought about. MR. CHAIRMAN: Which, which way would the doors open, Mr. Wipf? MR. WlPF: On, the front. On, on the road. Now the road is, now that's another thing there's a, there's the North Cross Avenue is right there. In other words it wo~JId open directly on North Cross so it wouldn't block anybody's view, it's right smack on the road and it Page 33 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~. 19~4 $outhold Town Board of Appeals would be great if someone is backing the boat into the garage and that's really why I needed 2 bay structure because I. for in charge purposes you have to have one for a boat and one for the car. MR. CHAIRMAN: How close to your mon. is your monument to the, to the road? MR, WIPF: How close is the monument to the road, MR. CHAIRMAN: In other words is there any space between the monument and the road? MR, WIPF: I think there is, I think what happened was that over the years they changed the width of the road so that it's probably in front of the road there's probably from the monument to the road there's probably 3-1/2 - ~ feet, so I mean there's really much more than that but you don~t go by that, you have to go by what the, the property line is, MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. This is a one story structure? MR, WIPF: No, its got a, a, its got a what's its name? Its got a storage space in the center, MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there a, is there a barn type roof or is it ..... ? MR. WlPF: I would like that, Actually that's what I'd like to do, I'd love to somebod¥'s barn because I can't afford to do anything else I'm going to be my own general contractor. I~d llke to find somebody .... reconstructed. I want to keep an esthetlcally rural beautiful, I'm an artist so I want this place to be beautiful looking, I mean I'm not looking to go to Pergaments and purchase a you know .......... I want to make it look beautiful, Page 3u, - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~,, 190~tr Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Can you give us some sort of diagram of what you want to make it look like in reference to a roofing? MR. WIPF: I have something. The roof line is, is kind of like a salt box, MR. CHAIRMAN: It's a salt box. MR. WIPF: Yeah, I mean, well I thought that but I mean, I, I don~t know. You know I, I, until I know where I am, I, but that's, that's what I thought would be logical. MR. CHAIRMAN: I thought I'd look at it. MR. WlPF: Yeah, and you know with the kind of something stick out so that you pick up you know open barn doors on the second floor and stuff in. I mean that's what I have on my mind. MR. CHAIRMAN: Strictly a storage building7 MR. WlPF: Oh yeah! Yeah, you know I've got, you know I don't need space, I mean ........ my house, I don~t want that. I specifically don't want that. No ways, it's a utility. MR. CHAIRMAN: Who has questions of this gentleman7 Bob? MEMBER VILLA: Well, you know the gentleman has given his version. You're looking at the existing garage and it looks like it's ready to fall down. MR. WlPF: That's, that's a wonderful garage .... I love that garage for many years. MEMBER VILLA: If it was a horse it would be called a swayback. MR. WlPF: People love that garage because of that shape. MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, you know, the logical thing from my mind would be to replace the garage where it is and not stick something up by the Page 35 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~, 19~L~ Southold Town Board of Appeals road. I have, I have problems with things being close to the roads, I'm sorry it's a, you mentioned the one further up the road, I objected to that one too. It was granted but a MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, this is an existing one. That was Deep Pole on the other side. MEMBER VILLA: I'm sorry, I~m in the wrong project. OK. Yeah, as I remember this one there isn't much in the area that's preexisting. MR. CHAIRMAN: There's one garage. MR. WlPF: No, there's a garage and then of course there's all of them on the bay, there all over the place. I know that you don't MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, well, there's not too much here. MR. WlPF: The, the, you know I could, I understand that, that people might have to be concerned like that especially on a regular plot, I mean on a plot that is not water front that it would seem logical but basically what your dealing with when your dealing with water front if the front is in the back and the back is in the front. MEMBER VILLA: Oh, I realize that. I don~t have a problem with that. MR. WlPF: You know and that's and it's, and it's, and I know that it, it, what is it a step down ...... or something like that? MEMBER VILLA: I have problems with things being too close to the road because when you go down, you know, you go to the city you know you, you feel like you're in a cannon, we're creating the same thing here by doing this narrowing down the road. MR. WlPF: What I~m trying to do is on, on, if you'd see the piece of property, on the north side"in that 15 feet drainage ditch, not a ditch, we~ve got trees, pine trees, you know the cedar trees that, that Page 36 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~, 191jl~ $outhold Town Board of Appeals are 30 feet, ~0 feet high in front of the property. There are two old growth maples that are at least ~0-50 years old, so basically what I~ve done is I've tucked it back and hid it from the road from people, from people llke you who object to, you know, kind of looking at a building. MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, but you're going to open up. Now, you have a fence across the front with hedges and what have you, which you're going to have to take out because your doors are facing the front, you're going to have a 20 foot opening. MR. WIPF: I, I~m going to take that stuff and it's, and what's there now are some hue bushes and forsythia. I'm going to pick them up and put them right to the left where the driveway is so there won't be an opened spot there~ll be right on the road. I mean you know. MEMBER VILLA. Yeah, youqt see the building exactly there. MR. WIPF: If you come down the road you will. That's true. I mean you know, if you don't MEMBER VILLA: Yeah. Speaking there isn't anything much I can do about it. MRS. WIPF: I, I just want to point out that the that the way the shrubbery has been placed and because of the way the property is situated it slants so that the only way you would actually see this this garage is if your going to see it if it's further back too if your passing by on the road, but because the way the shrubbery is, is, is existing right now, you literally have to stand right in front of it or pass right in front of it before you see it, but that's true of any building, you see the houses,~if there ~0 feet back you still see them. Our, our hardship is that the spot where the garage is right now is Page 37 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~, 19~[u~ Southold Town Board of Appeals literally the only spot on the property that has extensive sun where we can not have to remove a, a 50-60 year old maple that's right on the front road that does block any, any side views of what the structure would be plus all the other. There very high hues to the right of the property that would kind of hide that view. MR. WIPF: And you know it's interesting if you push the garage where I'm talking about because of the slant of the line, in other words llke this, right, the trees go here so if you look it's back by trees. I mean, if you put it down here it cuts off the view of the water. Esthetically I can't imagine that somebody walking by would rather see you know a garage sitting there. MEMBER VILLA: Even a swayback garage. MEMBER WILTON: And I share Mr. Villa's concern. I think the proper place for that garage is where the existing one is. MR. WIPF: Yeah, but you can't, you couldn't build it there anyway. MEMBER WILTON: Where you propose to put it, your asking also for a 3 foot side yard and to my knowledge this Board has never given a 3 foot side yard, so you're looking at moving that MR. WIPF: I think it is 3 feet, I think that's what the code is. MEMBER WILTON: You're looking at moving that garage further to the south view which almost places it in front of your house. MR. WlPF: I don't think MRS. KOWALSKI: That's what code it is. If it's in the rear yard, it's not in the rear yard so the Board has discretion of requiring more. I explained that to you before. ~ MEMBER WILTON: No, in the front yard the law is principal setbacks. Page 38 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. WIPF: I've been told, we were told it was 3 feet. MRS. KOWALSKI: No, that was if it's in the rear yard. I showed you that. I went over it with you with the code book and I told you that the Board has a discretion of requiring more of a side yard if it is in the front yard, OK. There's no rule for it in the front yard. MR. WlPF: But the town said, MRS. WIPF: So what, what would the footage be? MEMBER WILTON: From the side. MEMBER VILLA: 10-15 feet-l/2 acre. MR.'WlPF: He said not, that's not what Fisher says. MRS. KOWALSKI: Well you're lot is over 20,000 square feet? MR. WIPF: Well, that's another question. I have never thought it was over 20,000. It's only 88 feet ......... . MRS. KOWALSKI: You, you have to give that to the Board, that's up to you to show what the size of your property is. You may want to go back to the survey or that's what it's based on, the size. MR. WIPF: Even then, it's only a difference according to Tom Fisher, between 3 feet and 5 feet, because he said, that you don~t want, the new law you don't want require people to place this building in the middle of their garage. MRS. KOWALSKI: That's if your 40 feet back from the road. You're not ~0 feet back. That's the difference. MR. WIPF: Alright, listen I'm flexible about this. I'm going to run to something that's, that's horrendous here. MRS. KOWALSKI: Yeah, I trie~d to explain that to you in the beginning when you came in that there may be a problem. Page 39 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: The law, the law was changed and it said you can, that the, the so-called rear yard on water front can be closer to the front yard and a setback had to be principal building set back, which means you have the larger setbacks. It's not the same as like a garage in the back yard is allowed 3 feet. When you put it in the front yard here it does not apply. MRS. WlPF: OK. Well, given that then, if the footage on the side road is 10 or 15 feet because of the angle of the property it would literally put the garage directly in front of the kitchen window and it would block my view across the front of my property and it would end, it would also block the view of the neighbor whose across the street from us their view of the water. MEMBER VILLA: That's why it makes more sense to put it where the swayback is now. MRS. WIPF: No, it'makes more sense to put it up this way in the corner of the property where it is right now. The reason why we don~t want to put it next to the house is because we need to, we need to have a two bay garage for insurance purposes for the, for, for a boat and for the car and also we have, we both have elderly parents who may eventually come and live with us, possibly his mother first. We may need to extend that side bedroom and it would go right into where the ramp is, it would go right into that area and I don't think it's appropriate to put a two bay garage right next to the house if we're thinking of taking in elderly parents with fumes and the danger of gasoline in your boat, in your~garage. Page it0 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: No, it, it's (?) the house out here with attached garage, installed boats and bolts and everything else. I mean that, that argument is valid as far as I'm concerned. MRS. WlPF: Well, but it's, it's not MR. WIPF: Alright, listen, I'm flexible, I'm flexible about this. 'MRS. WlPF: It's not the safest condition for an elderly person to be living next to a garage. MR. WlPF: What I got is a detached building right now. I'm flexible. I'm willing to, to satisfy as best I can, whatever your considerations about this are and I'm hoping that in fact we can come up with something that will give me what I wanted, give you what you want, but I don't know what it is that you want. Do you want me to put it right on the house? I, I just don't think that's a good idea and besides that I could, I don't have the space for it. The space there would, would require a variance in itself. It's less than 15 feet. I would have to ask for a variance for something I don't want because it's, it's esthetlcally unpleasing or it, it, it makes you feel like the city. Can we do something in between that would you know give me what I want which is basically a garden and, and, and the use of that area of my property that's sunniest and protected from the wind and at the same time give you some consideration of the esthetic appeal or non appeal that you have for a for where building should be placed accessory buildings. It's difficult if you own water front. You know what your dealing with? MEMBER WILTON: Well, discussing. It's simply You got a little tiny space to work with. that'S why we created the law that you are for that fact to give someone relief without Page 41 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals having to come to the Zoning Board of Appeals and if we're going to keep extending that envelope, that law, or if we're going to keep resurfacing that law, the law is not going to be effective. MR. WIPF: I, I asked George Penny about this and basically what he said is that we had, they had little narrow 500 foot strips of property and he said what would happen is you'd get a house on the water and they couldn't build from the water all the way up to the road. MEMBER WILTON: Right. All, all I would say to you is that you just answered my question. MR. WIPF: Yeah, but, now what I said, MEMBER WILTON: You have a nice good, big, piece of property here. You do have some, you do have some other places you can locate this garage. MR. WIPF: No, think it should you know, I'm, I'm flexible about that. I mean if you be a little further back but remember every time you slide it further back it comes to the center of the barn. MEMBER WILTON: That's not really my concern. My concern is that I think you're asking for entirely too much as oppose to the law that we have on the books right now which is asking for principal --- MR. WlPF: I, I, I said to Ceorge Penny, I said why MEMBER WILTON: But George Penny is not this Board. MR. WIPF: I know but I mean I said to him why didn't you take into consideration you know, something like my situation. He said, because I wanted each individual situation to be discussed by the Board and that's what Tom Wickham said ~too because Tom is my neighbor down the road. He said, I think it's a good idea to bring it before the Board, Page 42 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals let them consider reasonable in trying not to breaker here, it and see what it is you want in terms of it being terms of your own particular needs. So, I mean, I'm fall into the category of doing some kind of ground I'm just trying to take advantage of what I have as best I can. I see you two gentlemen have, you know reservations about it. How can I give you what you need and yet get something at least of what I need? MRS. KOWALSKI: Well, the, the requirements 40 feet from the road and your suppose to go for the minimum that's necessary. Can you put it back 30 feet, 35 feet from the road, 38 feet? MR. WlPF: What you're doing is your sticking it right smack into the MRS. WlPF: restricted to Because of the way the property is slant is where we're the 15 feet or the 10 feet. It pushes it further .... . It's, it's going to make it more obvious to people passing by this, this big structure rather than up in the corner ..... . BOARD CLERK: How long is that other building going to stand? How long will it, before it collapses? MR. WlPF: It's been there for such a long time. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is, is it, can I just ask is there any reason why the Board couldn't make another inspection of this, meet with these people? MR. WIPF: You know, I~m, I'm trying not to --- MR. CHAIRMAN: Bob, go down there and, and you're the engineer and their talking about you know .... situations that are beyond you know .... passible. ~ Page ~r3 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19l~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. WIPF: By the way I want to let you know that the Building Department told me that the reason that they're putting 3 feet and I though mine, mine was undersized. I thought mine was under a half acre that's why I put a 3 feet and 5 feet, I~m telling you right now, they told me that I can build 5 feet in the front yard from the property .... . They told me that so I mean I didn't even consider this 15 feet. The 15 feet would place it I mean place it on the front lawn. MEMBER VILLA: It suppose to be ~0 feet from the back of the road. You got an 18 feet, it's suppose to be L[0 feet back. MR. WlPF: Well, - .... 35 and 3 is what I was asking the variance for because I was figuring the (more than one person speaking). MRS. WlPF: The further back where we have to place the garage the more obvious it becomes to people, anybody passing. We're literally trying to tuck in the least obvious corner of the property. That's basically what we're trying to do. MR. WIPF: If you saw the property MRS. WIPF: We're trying to do what you want us to do. (Members having conference) MEMBER WILTON: The law doesn't state that. The law does state here that provided that such buildings and structures meet the front back setback requirements as set forth in the code. OK, even though we're saying that you could put a rear yard accessory in, in what you want to call your front yard which is on the road, street side, you still have to meet the setbacks of a front yard. You still must meet, you MR. WlPF: It's not going well Is it? MEMBER WILTON: No, it's not going well at all. Page 44 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MRS. WIPF: I don't know what you're referring to. Are you referring to the 40 feet back or the 15 feet from the side. MEMBER WILTON: I'm referring to both. MRS. WIPF: OK, that's what why I'm applying for a variance. MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, what I'm trying to get them to do is come back and look at it so that you can explain to them you know exactly. You know, we could rehash this and I'm not against MEMBER VILLA: going back. MR. CHAIRMAN: I, I've no problems closing the hearing. BOARD CLERK: Could you come up with another plan that would be a little better than the one you have? MR. WIPF: Can you tell me where, how far back MRS. WIPF: Other than exactly where it is right now I don't see, unless we place it right smack in the middle of the property which means we would have take then 2 maples down and I thought old trees were important in this town and I particularly don't want to take it down. MEMBER WILTON: Well I think there was one taken down right in the middle of the estate. MRS. WIPF: It was dead, it was dead and that's the only reason it was taken down last year. BOARD CLERK (KOWALSKI): What are you using the existing garage for? MR. WIPF: Storage. MRS. WIPF: But we need to' have a 2 bay structure for insurance purposes for the boat and the car, otherwise their not Page ti5 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER VILLA: Why you're so objective to the size of the garage? You've got to tell me what it is that you want. MEMBER WILTON: You want to come back with another plan that meets the code? MR. WlPF: I don't know what it means that I have to go back ~0 feet. According to you it's 15 feet from the side line. Tom even gave me less than that. He gave me, he told me 35 because I though the lot was undersized. BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: It's ti0 feet because your lot is over 20,000 square feet. If you can show us MR. WIPF: It's, it's got, and, and the ...... on the water. Now, I've got at least 2,000 square water on the water in the front and that doesn't count. BOARD CLERK KOWALSKI: I know, and it does count in building area. For some people it's an advantage for lot coverage zoning. MR. CHAIRMAN: Could, could you do this. Rather than close the hearing tonight come back, you know, calculate the square footage of the property exactly, either through a surveyor or through somebody that you know OK. Come back with some sort of alternate or a couple of plans so that we, you know, that we just don't close it. Maybe there's something that we can work out. MR. WlPF: You all hate this idea don't you? MRS. WIPF: What would be satisfactory to you, giving us some kind of variance? MR. CHAIRMAN: I don't particularly hate it. I told you that at the beginning, I don't particularly hate it. Alright. Page 46 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MRS. WIPF: But, given up the variance that we are asking for is different from what the code is. Because of the code it will literally place the garage in a more obvious place which seems to be what your objection is. We're trying to place it in the least obvious place so that it is sheltered by enough shrubbery and trees and that the placement of it will not, we really thought about this, that the placement of it will not obscure the water view and the beautiful views that West Creek has. MR. WlPF: And it's going to block them for sure if you put them back where MRS. WIPF: We literally talked to all of our neighbors to find out if this was OK with them and, and if this was something that MR. WlPF: Nobody objects to this. BOARD CLERK: How far back is the neighbor's house on that side.{MRS. MRS. WlPF: Ron's is somewhere between our house and the, MR. WIPF: Ron's is up by the garage. MRS. WIPF: No, no, his house isn't by the garage. He has a little driveway where he keeps his car, right on the, right on the road. If anything, BOARD CLERK: Why don't you take measurements and then come back? MRS. WlPF: Measurements of what? MR. WlPF: Could you give me, could you give me a figure? I've asked for 18 because I was trying to get a BOARD CLERK: The BoarcC is saying that right now that you don't have anything. You have a zero, zero variance so you can either take Page 47 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4. 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals it llke that or come back with an alternative is what they're offering to you. If you don't want an alternative then you got to reapply. MR. WlPF: A foot, or is there a footage set in mind? Could you give me a footage in mind? MEMBER WILTON: I, I could just tell you if you want my thoughts. I could just tell you that I don~t see a hardship here. I don't see any reason why I should grant a variance, I see a lot of other places you can put this building on this piece of property. MR. WlPF: But even the Building Department says that, that it's only required either a 3 or 5 foot from the side llne because they don't want to place it in front of the lawn. I mean they said it clearly. I mean I don't know if that's just a policy or something, I mean, I presume that there was no problem with the side line. MEMBER WILTON: I'm not going to comment on another department on whether or not they, my belief is what I read in the Code and what I read in the Code is not 3 feet in the front yard. MRS. WlPF: Well, that's where we got our figures from. MEMBER WILTON: Well, I understand, I'm only saying that you're, you're .... is right, right. I agree, but, I mean I would like to see Tom come here and tell me that 3 feet in the front yard is, is MR. WlPF: For a side llne, side line. MEMBER WILTON: Yeah, but in a, on a front yard structure. MR. WIPF: It's only 118 feet in the front and it squeezes down to 88 feet. Page 48 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 191It4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MEMBER WILTON: I agree, but like I said, I, I think you could locate this garage without even having a variance and certainly you can locate this garage on your piece of property with a lot less of a variance. MR. WlPF: Less of a variance. MEMBER WILTON. Right. MR. WIPF: You want a smaller building? MRS. WIPF: No, no, you mean 40 from, from the road? MEMBER WILTON: Right. MR. WIPF: How about footage from the side? About 15 feet is impossible, that's really bad, that's that's. How about, how about, your primarily concerned about the front? MEMBER WILTON: I'm not going to tell you how to write it. All I'm MR. WIPF: Well tell me because I'm asking. MEMBER WILTON: I can't, I can't tell you how to write it. All I can say to you MR. WlPF: What would satisfy you? MEMBER WILTON: I, I think I gave you too much already in my opinion. I, I do think that you can actually, that I could actually vote for this particular plan but I'm not saying that I couldn't grant you some variance or couldn't give you some variance on this property for that building. What, what I believe, my personal belief, and if you sat and watched me for the past 5 years this is totally out of character for me. I think you can do better than what your doing right MR. WIPF: You mean further back from the road? MEMBER WILTON: Right. Page ~9 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MRS. WIPF: And the reason you think it should be further back from the road, you think it would be, it would obstruct? MEMBER DINIZIO: Right, because the Code that we wrote, which I worked with George Penny on and the Co-Committee and it was, we worked long and hard on it, I believe that helps everybody in the town and I just think that if we start out less than a year from the time that we took that Code and enforced that Code and gave a variance of this size, we may not of even, we should not even discussed it for the 6 months that we did. That's, that the way, that's my feelings on this. MR. WIPF: I see, I've run into something that's, that's like a major. MR. KOWALSKI: Well, you're, you're asking a 60% variance that's very major. 60%, you know. MR. WIPF: Well, let me, let me go back and see if I can, now do I have to wait a month for this again to come back to this hearing, will won't I. MEMBER VILLA: That or we can close the hearing. MR. WIPF: No, wait a minute, take it easy. BOARD CLERK: That's why we're letting you decide if you want to recess it to the next month's meeting you won't have to pay another fee. If you close the hearing tonight you're going to have a decision you might not come back. MR. WIPF: Alright, going well up here. something different. be happy with and you'll have to pay another fee to no, no, I sense that there's things that are not Alright, let me just see if I can come up with Page 50 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: You have to excuse me Alex, you're really very jovial tonight. MRS. WIPF: I'm kind of bending towards Mr., the Chairman's idea of possibly inviting you back so that we can literally check, but they haven't been there and talked to us so that we can show them why and what the MR. WIPF: Let us see if we can settle it. MEMBER DINIZIO: See if you can consider it right. See if you can stake it out another way on the property. MRS. WIPF: When will you be able to come and take a look at the property again? MEMBER WILTON: I'd be there Saturday or Sunday. MR. WIPF: OK. Let me see if I can MRS. WIPF: We will be there on Saturday and Sunday. MR. WIPF: You want to come down. I'd love to get some advice from you · MR. WILTON: I won't give you advice. MRS. WIPF: He~s not looking for advice, I want to show you specifically why we want to put it where ~t is. MR. WIPF: Alright, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to make something that's going to work for, I mean obviously I want to do this and I'm kind of flexible about how I can do it. What I don't want, what I do want, is that I want to get as much of a garden as I can. That's really what my primarily concern is. If I have to cut down the building, I, I'm gain, I'm basically looking to get it built. MEMBER WILTON: Well, I'll come to take a look at it and anybody else. Page 51 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ti, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MRS. WIPF: We'll we see you on Saturday or Sunday? MR. WILTON: Hopefully on Saturday morning. MR. WIPF: Thank you very much, that's very nice of you. MRS. WlPF: Sunday is Monday's Day, you don't want, you know. MEMBER WILTON: I won't be anywhere on Mother's Day then. Thank you for reminding me. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else who would like to speak either for or against this? I see no hands I'll make a motion recessing the hearing to the next regular scheduled meeting. BOARD CLERK: That's for June 1st. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye. 9:00 P.M. MR. CHAIRMAN: Appeal No:~238 in behalf of Jon C. Kerbs, a request for a variance based upon April 18, 199~, Notice of Disapproval as a permit to alter roof line for a height above the 18 foot limitation preexisting accessory building and garage and rental apartment; Article 111A, Section 100-30A.~. Location of property tt~0 Riley Avenue, (previously known as 590 Riley Avenue), Mattituck, N.Y. County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-1q3-~-10. We have significant pictures in the file. We have pictures of the structures or the drawing as proposed and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. We have a survey from Robert VanTuyl, P.C., indi~'ating the approximate placement of the building as it exists on the property. Page 52 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19e~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. KERBS: My name is Jon Kerbs, I'm asking for this variance, it's about /4 feet higher than it is now, the average height. It is an accessory building, the other buildings around are, the fellow who redid the house next door is of similar height. This is an accessory building, that's why I need the variance. I don't think in my opinion I don~t feel it's going to stick out in the area, it's not like a regular building that .... 40-50 feet high, it's just that this is an accessory building so I, I therefore do need a variance. I've spoken to all my neighbors that I could find. Some of them don't live around there full time. There's a letter in the that was sent to the Board from one of my neighbors who lives right alongside saying that he's in favor and he feels it would be an improvement, I showed him what I want to do, I didn't just what to do something and surprised him, and I wanted to explain what I had. So he's in favor of it. He just spend a lot of money on his house and he's very happy to see me do this kind of thing on my house. I also since then, spoke to another neighbor directly across the street and he wrote a little letter saying that he would be in favor of, of improvement on this variance and another neighbor who is alongside of him who also said they would be in favor of it. I guess the point is that I~m trying to make is I'm, I~m really ..... to you. I'm trying to improve the area. I'm trying to do something nice. There are things I can do that I wouldn't need a variance but I don't think they'd be as nice as this. - .... what I'm trying to figure out what we work out and I guess that's it. Page 53 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: You utilized this building. This is where you live? You live totally in this? There, is, is, you utilized the entire building? MR. KERBs: Yes. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. Does anybody have any questions of Mr. Kerbs? MEMBER VILLA: When he says he lives in this, the building that you're going to be working on is the accessory building or the front building? MR. KERBS: The accessory buildlng I live in. It's a, I think it's just a, I just said that, it's just /~ feet high than it is now, the average height. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is anybody, does everybody understand exactly what he wants to do? MEMBER DINIZIO: Mr. Kerbs, you're not changing anything? The foundation, or really the footprint of the building? MR. KERBS: Everything is within the footprint, I~m not changing the foundation. MEMBER DINIZIO: You're not going to cover up the side stairway that goes up, that's going to, not be over this .... ? MR. KERBS: Right, just, just the roof. The roof is going to go out over the existing deck, that's what it is. We intended to use that 20 years ago when I built that deck it was great to sit outside, now I go to a skin doctor, now have to burn skin cancer off, my daughter sits out there on the open deck -- an open deck does not have the allure that it use to. MEMBER DINIZIO: Does the deck remain open, on the sides? Page 5L[ - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~14 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. KERBS: Yeah, I'd like to screen it some day. That's, within, within the building points. MEMBER DINIZIO: Yet, you wouldn't have no objections to our saying that, then, I mean that it not be livable space, year round livable space? MR. KERBS: Yeah, that's not, that's not going to be a. MEMBER DINIZIO: That's all I got. MR. CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any objections to it? Bob? MEMBER VILLA: No, I~11 make the motion that we approve it? MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, I just have to ask and see if there is anybody else that wants to talk. Is there anybody else in the audience that would like to speak either for or against this application? I see no hands. MEMBER VILLA: OK, make a motion that we approve it as applied for with the stipulation that .... . MEMBER DINIZIO: I~11 second it. MR. CHAIRMAN: What was that stipulation? MEMBER DINIZIO: Well that it not be made into livable year round habitable space, I guess. MR. CHAIRMAN: You mean the outside area? MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah, the deck, the screen ---. MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, OK, and you second it, Jim. MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, I do. MR. CHAIRMAN: All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye. ~ Page 55 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May L~, 199U~ Southold Town Board of Appeals 9:05 p.m.-Appeal No. 4208 MR. CHAIRMAN: We'll go back on to Kim Campbell - Mr. Ham is present. MR. HAM: Good evening, Steven Ham, u~5 Hampton Road, Southampton, on behalf of the applicant. To save some time again I have prepared a presentation in a written form. A, to comment on, on quite some time this is my first appearance here. MR. CHAIRMAN: No, but we opened the hearing on January 14. but it was adjourned and definitely until we were the environmental permits which we've now obtained MR. HAM: Right, able to obtain all and. MR. CHAIRMAN: When, when I saw you, I did a ..... . When I saw you, you're facial expression when I said that, I, I said immediately looked at the front of it and I said I know I read this Notice of Disapproval and the, and the legal Notice on January 12, 199u,, so, go ahead. MR, HAM: Right, well it said third and final hearing. I think it was calendared initially for the 12th and the architects requested that it be adjourned because Mr. Doyen wasn't going to present and then you requested anyway that we wait until we had all the permits so I feel like this is the first shot. BOARD CLERK: Well we advertised it three times and it was postponed on your request, not the Board's - so that's why it's a third and final hearing. You would have had to reapply. MR. HAM: Oh, I see - I see how you arrived at that. In any event, I presented an argument in the, in written form there, but I just want to Page 56 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May L[, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals summarize briefly the facts here. This ~s a structure that was added to an altered and issued CO for a guest cottage back in 197~ and my client wanted to renovate it and add to it and her architects obtained the required all the required permits from the DEC, the Town Trustees, the Suffolk County Department of Health Services and ultimately the Building Inspector for plans to just that. When the architects proceeded to hire contractor, they discovered that the structure was basically unsound and they whether the word is inadvertently but they removed it more than 50% of it which is why we're back before the Board. Since that time we again obtained permits or Letters of Non Jurisdiction and in connection with the Trustees Permit we~ve agreed to move it back 15 feet farther from its former location for wetlands purposes, agreed to remove part of the lawn and plan a corrosion control plantings and a portion of it and obviously its been an area that has been disturbed. It is an area that has historically had a cottage at this site for at least 20 years so in terms of the neighborhood there is no significant change. As I point out in the memorandum I, just three properties in this area that I was familiar with have second structures on the properties that have living quarters which is further evidence of, of no change to the character of the neighborhood. Now, yesterday I received a fax from your office requesting additional details concerning the prior use of the property, its location and the timing of the demolition of the property in relationship to the issuance of a Building Permit and I have here which llll give you with respect to'the latter point an affidavit from Jacob Page 57 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May L~, 19qL~ Southold Town Board of Appeals Albert, the architect, or one of Mrs. Campbell's architects which reflects that all the permits were in hand at the time of removal of the BOARD CLERK: Even the Building Permit? MR. HAM: Oh, absolutely. October 28, 93, was the Building Permit, the structure was removed during the week of November 5 to 12th after they discovered it. BOARD CLERK: But it's not the "as built," it the same building that you're asking for? It's for a different, different footprint and everything, right? MR. HAM: Well it is because the Trustees requested a different footprint. It, it's the same footprint, however, one other point which I do make, I, on my advice, the architects redesigned the project to maintain an 18 foot height to assure you that it is an accessory structure that would not be ran inseparably 'and my clients are agreeable to any conditions in your variance and in the Certificate of Occupancy that it remain such, namely a guest cottage, adjunct to the principal dwelling and not a structure that could be ran inseparably. The other issues that you asked me about I have to be forthright about this as a Member of the Bar. I was able to obtain on notice surveys from 1950s I, I did not make copies Goehringer. 1958 does show a structure not in that similar it's called a boathouse in that survey. 1978 fairly short of these Mr. location. 1962 it shows the cottage and its location before it was removed. The structures for those .... don't see the survey was further. Well actually I'11, I'll tell you where it was. You'll ~see on the current plan the remains of a foundation which mentions a garage I, I don't know what a, what that Page 58 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May I~, 19~L[ Southold Town Board of Appeals was, its use. I, through telephone calls I have learned that and I point out in my memorandum however that from a legal point of view at least I maintain that from a legal point of view it's not relevant because this property was CO'd in 197[[. The property or the structure that is in the where the old foundation shows on the current survey was apparently moved by Gates who was the owner in the late 60s and early 70s to the location to where the formerly existing cottage was before it was demolished and according to this again is hearsay but the office of a contractor indicated that it was a storage area that was converted to a guest cottage in 197~, so I am not going to be able to give you proof or a that so far as I know based on the information that I now have at hand I cannot justify a, or confirm a use continuous use as a guest cottage from 57 to 7~,. However, now as I point out in the memorandum I don't feel that's an appropriate inquiry because a CO was issued. My client in 1981 purchased the property and as all prudent purchases should do applied for and obtained the preexisting Certificate of Occupancy authorizing the use of this property for a single family dwelling and an accessory guest cottage and has now suffered financial which I've estimated in the memorandum and if the Board would like we can provide you with an appraisal which shows the detriment in terms of dollars and cents but just based on the assessment of this cottage was $1,800 in relationship to a total assessment for improvements of $1~,,100 which is roughly 1/8 of the value of the structures not counting the land, If we apply the residential assessment ratio fo'r the town, generally it's about 3% but I've done my own studies in connection with tax grievances, For Page 59 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 191~t[ Southold Town Board of Appeals Fishers Islands it's about 2% which would show a value of this between $60 and $90,000 in terms of the loss if it's not allowed to be rebuilt. MRS. KOWALSKI: This building is not on the tax roll today though. MR. HAM: That's correct. It was removed when the, when it was demolished and apparently the Building Inspector notified the Assessor, so presumably I guess with a tax status dated March 1, it would not be on the rolls for the coming year. However, if a variance is granted they would not rebuild it probably until the fall and it wouldn't be completed until or usable until the following summer anyway, so the town would not suffer in that respect. MR. CHAIRMAN: I, I apologize Mr. Ham for going through this. I just don't have a copy of that CO that's 7~t CO that you were mentioning. MRS. KOWALSKI: Oh! It's on the left-hand side .... . MR. HAM: It's, in my Memorandum as an exhibit. MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh! It's in your Memorandum? OK. MR. HAM: Which one the 7~,? It's Exhibit A and 81 is Exhibit C. I make some arguments in there that I admit can be subject to dispute but in 197~t the Building Inspector issued a permit for whatever was done. I asked the Building Inspector, I tried to provide this to you of a copy of the Building Permit from 1972 which they couldn't find, so I don't have that to see precisely what happened. However, he did issue a permit for it. I attach as an Exhibit to that memorandum the former Section 120~, from the Zoning Code which would have prohibited this sought of activity to the extent that it would increase the value by more than 50% if it's deemed tb be a non conforming use. I'm making an argument in this memorandum which again can be subject to dispute. Page 60 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19q4 Southold Town Board of Appeals However, I think it's a fairly decent one that this could be considered a conforming use and therefore the arguments I present are in the nature of those for an area variance. However. I think it could be sustained in the case because of the financial loss under the stricter requirements for obtaining a use variance, MR, CHAIRMAN: This is from a Coast Guard Property. MR, HAM: That's correct, It was a life saving station, MR. CHAIRMAN: Serge do you have anything you want to add to it, MEMBER DOYEN: No No, Does anybody have any questions of Mr, Ham on MR. CHAIRMAN: this? MRS, KOWALSKI: I was just wondering what is the percentage of the increase over the 50-% that your expanding? It wasn't given on there. MR. CHAIRMAN: You mean total, size, square footage of the new building? MR. HAM: I scaled it out as the prior building just on scale, the footprint was 867 square feet. MR. CHAIRMAN: On the old, on the old building? MR. HAM: Of the, of the very old structure the foundation was some 508 feet, square feet by my scaling out. These are not precise, but probably pretty close. The guest cottage that was CO~d in 74, 867 square feet and scaling what's proposed now by the architects footprint is roughly 1425 square feet, so we're going from it would be going from the former of 867 to 1425 which would be MRS. KOWALSKI: That's one story, right, that's one story? MR. HAM: Yes. Page 61 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~. 19q~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MRS. KOWALSKI: OK. MR. HAM: At, I just want to point this out. They had approval for a second story that went to 22 feet and you'll see that in the plans that I gave you however, it currently is proposed to be only 18 feet in height and according to the architect the purposes to make the new cottage look like the old one by having the same details no higher than the old one. What was there before had heat, electricity, water and you know as I say they have ..... my client has accommodated the Town Trustees in terms of the new location. I make the point in my memorandum that this is a structure that has been on this vista for some 20 years, it is 400 feet from the road so this enlargement basically would be imperceptible and the lot itself is more than half, greater than the minimum required in the Zone District. MRS. KOWALSKI: I, I just one other question if you don't mind my asking. How much of this new building is in the old footprint because that's the basic of the application on the old footprint? MR. CHAIRMAN: Here, look. MR. HAM: Well, I, I don't, are you questioning your jurisdiction on this now because of that? MRS. KOWALSKI: Yeah, may be a little problem. MR. HAM: I think that's a stretch to question it. MRS. KOWALSKI: Well, this is something that we have to put in the decision. You can't tell from the map how much of the old footprint is going to stay. Page 62 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~/4 Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. HAM: Only, apparently where the deck is, as I read it. The deck is going to be basically where the former guest house was and the rest of it is moved back. MEMBER DINIZIO: Am I right in assuming that you were asked to move this back? MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah. The Trustees asked them to move it back, MR. HAM: I met with, I had asked Glen Just who does environmental permit work and he and I met with the Trustees back in February in fact with four of them and we, they had one point they thought it could be moved back as much as 35 feet but that would have been involved taking out a tree and some other things and impacted it on the Health Department aspect of it. They were happy with that and we, they asked and my client agreed to give up a portion of the lawn to plant Rosarlgosa. MR. CHAIRMAN: to speak either questions of Mr. OK. Is there anybody in the audience that would like for or against this application? Any other further Ham .... MEMBER DINIZIO: NO. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, There are no further comments I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. MEMBER DINIZIO: Second, MR, CHAIRMAN; All in favor, MEMBERS: Aye, 9:23 P.M. MR. CHAIRMAN: A~peal No. 4235 I see everybody has come back. This is a hearing of Fallon and Sutryk. Page 63 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~. 191~Lr Southold Town Board of Appeals (Unknown): Well I guess the only way that we would wrap this all of us together and I guess we would come back to you? MR. CHAIRMAN: So, you're going to meet independently with the group? (Unknown) We will meet together again in about a week because the other party Klm Fallon would like to discuss certain things that they want and whatever. So, I don't know do we come back and ask for another hearing, or if we cannot agree, do we come back and ask for another hearing? MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, we could leave it opened, see if there are any changes and a you know we'll do that and then we'll rehear it on June 1st and we'll get that done. OK? (Unknown) OK, thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Thank you very much, everybody, for coming in. There are no further comment on ~235 we'll recess it to the next regular scheduled meeting. All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye, 9:23 P.N. Appeal No. 4203SE Hearing is Robert E. Bidwell) which commenced on December 8, 1993 and it was heard on May I~, 199~. MR. BAYLEY: (nothing heard) the final approval for the Special Exception to operate a winery in an existing building, why don't I Page 64 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 191~t Southold Town Board of Appeals wait, get the model first. We're here to seek a final approval on this Special Exception to operate a winery in an existing building which is here and operate the retail sales and public place in a new pavilion which is here which as you see is in the front yard of the building. The highway ..... runs right in front and surrounding the complex is vintage, about 15 acres total and over the last 3 or ~ months we have been talking steadily although not fairly regularly with the Planning Board over the matter of details and items such as site drainage, objects on the site. There's been a number of request at the Planning Board this May and to the best of our knowledge we're now at a point after having made 'many minor changes, actually most of them are fairly minor to the site plan we're now at the point where there's a question about the color, the intensity of the blue on the color of the roof of the new pavilion. So, except for that item why we're now in an essential site plan agreement with the Planning Board. Some of the things just to refresh your memory although it should show up in the site plan, some of the changes that have taken place in the last 3 months as a result of this inter action between the Bidwells, myself and the architects is to remove the pylons which as we found out we're technically speaking accessory buildings and rather than try to make further appeal to retain those it was agreed to remove them as well as an entry tower here that's also being removed. The building itself although there hasn't been any change to the shape or the location of the building the material that at one time let light into the building was Plexiglas's is now glas~ and the architects will have shortly redrawn the building plans and details to reflect that change. That's a Page 65 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals fairly major change to the point of view the Bidwells and from point of view of time and effort to accommodate that change. The other change is that the parking area and the access to the site has been modified at the request of the Planning Board to give more room in front of the building. A handicapped face has been moved closer to the building. There is now a passage through an existing piece this being the office space. Passage through here to connect outdoor space to the inner courtyard which would be very helpful with regard to handicapped people, and then there's additional trellising in the front of the building and additional landscaping in the side of the building. Again, at the request of the Planning Board in order to make the eastern approach to the building more bucolic, more rural, less abrupt. Right now as everybody knows there's a building here with a rather severe front of the road and that has now been altered to soften that front to the road. I frankly think it's an improvement. MR. CHAIRMAN: The majority you're talking is going to be on that easterly side, right? MR. BAYLEY: The majority of the parking is on this side of the site, yes and some in the front and there's also overflow in the back. There's quite a bit of overflow space to the rear of the winery building which should be back here, so we feel pretty good about where we're at right now, although it's taking a long time. Frankly, we're surprised at how long, in fact, it has taken to arrive at this structure but we feel very comfortable about the fact that the Planning Board Js now with the currenf, plan as you have it and we hope you feel the same way. Page 66 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~, Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. BAYLEY: Oh!, one other thing here. It's pretty hard to see that this rendering was prepared on behalf of the or for the Planning Board in order to show at eye level from the east which was by everyone's opinion to be the weaker side of this project to show what the effect would be of introducing landscaping which has been agreed to changing the glazing in the new pavilion to glass rather than corrugated Plexiglas and in addition of trellising around the hard edge of the existing building so this is now a slightly different view of what you've all seen before. MR. CHAIRMAN: Very beautiful actually. MR. BAYLEY: So, do you have any questions or can the Bidwells answer any questions about .... MR. WILTON: What is your time frame to get to this state? MR. BIDWELL: We're hoping not to phase it we're hoping just to do it one phase. MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, let's go on from that point and when do you think you'll have final approval from the Planning Board? MR. BAYLEY: Well I would expect that as soon as a in fact I was just told by Carrie and Jim tonight that the sample color which the Planning Board has requested to see on the building has been done so actually all we have to do now I think, is to invite the Planning Board to come look at the color of a, it's a pale blue, blue gray on this building which will then hopefully show them what it will like so that they can approve of that question and I, I don't know how long that will take, I see a week or two at most, s~ if all goes as we expect why within the next ten days or so we'll have formal site plan approval. We still have Page 67 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ti, $outhold Town Board of Appeals to get Board of Health approval, but we now have again hopefully a site plan that is acceptable and there have been some modifications to that that would affect the Health Department. There has been additional site drainage added to the site plan, additional spot grading information added to the site plan so hopefully that's as far as we'll have to go. That is I don't think there'll be any other changes to the site plan. MR. CHAIRMAN: Bob, do you have any questions of Mr. Bayley? MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, what is this 7 foot high concrete block wall back here? It looks like to the west of this metal building. MR. BAYLEY: Itts a walk to shield a service ...... MR. BIDWELL: That's correct, it's on the model behind the trees. You just barely see it. It's to delineate the garden area from the back overlooking ....... MEMBER VILLA: I couldn't see an area .... I was looking at it .... MR. BIDWELL: Basically, what wet~-e doing is, using it for us to focus views across most of the back of our property. This is the wall over here. MEMBER VILLA: This is not standard block, is it? MR. BAYLEY: I believe it is the same ...... . MR. CHAIRMAN: So we won't be seeing the pickup sitting over there on that side of the building? MR. BIDWELL: No, you won't see it. I don't think that's standard concrete block either. I think it's a, it's a rough face terrazzo type of concrete blocking, it's a very nice looking standard texture. Page 68 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. BAYLEY: It's what's called in construction, this is split face block. It's really a block made like ordinary concrete block but with different coloring agents and. then it's split so that the split services is rough and rustic and more stone like than what you would normally see in concrete block which is a smooth finish. MEMBER VILLA: So it's an esthetic thing? That's what I was looking for. So you're not having a pagodas out by the road or anything else then that~ll ..... ? So, you're just going to have some signs out there? MR. BAYLEY: Well right now there's an existing sign which will stay as' the existing sign which is on the left side of the drawing and that meets the current sign statute for the town and it will be the only sign. Am I right? MR. BIDWELL: That's it. MEMBER VILLA: You know, I think by doing what you're doing you're drawing up attention ...... MR. BIDWELL: I hope so. MR. CHAIRMAN: Jim, do you have any questions? MEMBER DINIZIO: No. MEMBER VILLA: What is the setback to this new building? I was looking at it here and I see it shows 150 feet plus or minus to the old building but there's no dimension on this one? MR. BIDWELL: I think it was 120. MR. BAYLEY: Well I see 150 to this. MEMBER VILLA: To this, right, but there's nothing else that you can tie it in with. You show 24 but then we don't what the dimension is, Page 69 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~L[ Southold Town Board of Appeals we don~t know the dimension of that. (discussion) Yeah. I believe it was over 100, but I (~nterrupted) MR. CHAIRMAN: It was 10~ I believe. MR. BIDWELL: It is over 100 but we would be guessing it to tell you the truth. MR. CHAIRMAN: Could you just scale that for us in someway and get back to us on that so we could have it for the part of the decision? MR. BIDWELL: Yes MR. CHAIRMAN: Would you mind doing that Bob? MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, well we could grant it right now; MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, not now. MR. DINIZIO: Well, I mean if we could just, we could just grant it, it can't be anymore than 100 feet or any less than a 100 feet where the road meet. MR. BAYLEY: I could phone that information into Linda tomorrow, if that's acceptable. MR. CHAIRMAN: OK, that's great. MRS. KOWALSKI: I think we scaled it off one day. It was over 100 feet. MR. BIDWELL: I just want to make another point perhaps which is that this building, the new building is a principal building. It's not an accessory building. That's, that's an important distinction for us because the Building Department may see otherwise. MEMBER VILLA: This is on how many inches of the property? MR. BIDWELL: 15. MEMBER VILLA: 15. OK, I~ don't have any problems. Any other questions? Page 70 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals (discussions between everyone) MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else in the audience who would like to either speak for or against this application? Seeing no hands. I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision. All in favor? MEMBERS: Aye. 9:~0 P.M. MR. CHAIRMAN: On behalf of Robert Pellegrini it is Appeal No. 4237. This is a request for an amendment to Special Exception of 4065 rendered January 23, 1992 for the processing of grapes grown at sales of grape wine. A copy of a survey site plan by Robert Van Tuyl amended October 21, 1991, and the premises and basically produced most recently to April 13, 1993, indicating the building as it is completed in its finish form and a site plan by Thomas C. Samuels dated April 15, 1994, indicating the entire area that this rather magnificent building (It is a magnificent building) encompasses and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. TOM SAMUELS: ..... Mr. Pellegrinl here this evening. At the time the original application for Special Exception was filed and granted by the ZBA we had intended and the Pellegrinis had intended to put a bottling llne for bottling of the wine in the area that this ..... . Since that point and since the building was built and operating they've joined the co-op which bottles wine on ~, as a flat bed so they didn't need a bottling line so the space was in a sense left over. They've used it Page 71 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals for display and for private affairs and it's function as such without any problem. However, some of their events which are as I said private and that's the big distinction that we're trying to make here. This has nothing to do with public events or for profit events or any of the other initiatives that are currently before the town they feel the need for because they both cook and want to have guests at their winery. They use their winery not only as a commercial venture but also as a personal venue for entertaining. It's just that this is sort of their llfe out here that they need some facility for cooking and that needs to be specifically as you know granted by the ZBA because it was not part of the original application. In addition to their own guests the property has no kitchen on it as many of the other wineries do. On where there were houses involved on the property there is a kitchen so their staffed and which numbers upwards of 10 people at peak time has no place to prepare even their own meals and since they you know are picking grapes and making wine late into the night there is occasionally need for something. Admlttedly the kitchen that we're showing you is, is more than just a little warm up place for the staff but as I said it, it's keeping with the building which is rather more magnificent is what you said, it's big and the Pellegrinis llke it that way and want it this to be in character with the structure so that the kitchen that we've shown you is generous. MR. CHAIRMAN: What is the approximate square footage in the kitchen area? MR. SAMUELS: I would say it'~ a probably about 250 square feet. MR. CHAIRMAN: I'll ask one other question but continue. Page 72 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~/~ Southold Town Board of Appeals (Discussion between Member Villa, Mr. Thomas, etc.) MR. SAMUELS: As I was saying other wineries have, have kitchens in one form or another either in the facility or on the property and I just want to stress that it was their intention to use the kitchen in compliance with the ordinance and that this has nothing to do with for profit events or other uses which are not in compliance with the code as it is now. Finally, it's within the building so there's no visual impact to the neighborhood and nor have we heard of any complaints on this proposal from any neighbors. I would llke to ask if it's OK for Mr. Pellegrini to add anything if he want to. MR. PELLEGRINI: Basically you said .... As it exists now there's no kitchen whatsoever. There's no refrigerator. There's a lavatory downstairs but that's really for testing wine at various stages. MR. CHAIRMAN: A part from what might occur in the town it is to your knowledge that this kitchen does meet Health Department standards for a commercial kitchen, does not necessarily exhibit a significant amount of stainless steel which would be required for Health Department purposes in a commercial kitchen, does not necessarily consist of magnanimous looking appliances that would be something that you would see in a commercial kitchen of that nature, is that correct? MR. PELLEC;RINI:That correct. MEMBER VILLA: On the ....... rooms that show up here don~t exist now? MR. PELLEGRINI; Yes, they ct0. MEMBER VILLA: They do exist. Page 73 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~J~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. PELLECRINI: Yeah, those are the MEMBER VILLA: OK. You said something about the basement I was led to believe that these didn't exist. MR. SAMUELS: No, those are two handicapped bathrooms. We're taking out the space of two offices which have not proved useful or necessary for the operation in order to accommodate this and as you say its not a commercial kitchen by any stretch. I mean for that the Health Department in the ..... . Mr. CHAIRMAN: Anybody have any questions of Mr. Samuels? MR. DINIZIO: Well, I have a question about the events. You can kind of elaborate on that a little bit for me. MR. Samuels: Well for example the opening event before the winery opened last spring was a hospice event they had which was a there was no rent paid I mean they had people come in, they had a caterer come in, they, the caterer served food, it was a benefit for hospice. Since that time, I know I'm going to my secretary's 50th wedding anniversary next week, they're buying the wine from you, right, but that's the only .... . They have as all wineries do non profit events and that's ..... as the ordinance as is written and I think that all of the wineries are wondering about what's been proposed by the ......... but this has nothing to do with that. I mean as far as I'm concerned this is a separate issue. It needs to be seen as a separate issue. MEMBER DINIZIO: Did you just say that there's going to be an event there next week provided that they buy the wine from him? MR. SAMUELS: No, they just~ they, it's, it's a party that's happening there, their not paying Mr. Pellegrinl anything. They, I assume that Page 7[[ - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~4 Southold Town Board of Appeals Pellegrini wine consistent with the happen. All benefits places. MR. CHAIRMAN: Questions Jim? MEMBER DINIZIO: No. will be served but it's, it's in the fashion way these non profit and not-for-profit events or any number of things that happen in these MR. CHAIRMAN: OK. Thank you sir. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application which is a modification with original Special Exception? Would anybody like to speak against it? There are no hands, I'll make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision to later. Ali in favor? MEMBERS: Aye Appeal Nos. 4218 & 4220 9:50 P.M. MR. CHAIRMAN; This is the application of John Stripp. (Addressing Stephen Ham, Esq.) Do you want to tell us where you are at this point, in your opinion? MR. HAM: We have two issues I think that were outstanding. Well, three issues. One, you wanted a copy of the Negative Declaration which I provided to you. The other two issues were what to do about the questions raised from an archeological point of view and what would be done with respect to the request by the Trustees for a permit. The first one, as I say, I provided the copy of the Health Departmentms Negative Declaration on this. ~ Let me dispose of the Trustees first. Page 75 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May ~, 19~!4 Southold Town Board of Appeals I think that's a little easier. Mr. Stripp is not contesting their right to ask for a permit even though I believe it's outside their jurisdiction. Application fees have been paid and copies of the permits from the Health Department and DEC have been provided to the Trustees and an application is being prepared by Glen Just and will be submitted by Friday which should put us on the calendar for May 26th according to Jill Thorp of the Trustees office. So we are proceeding in that vane with the Trustees. Insofar as the archeological questions, I was a little taken back when I received a letter from your office wondering why we had not done anything in that regard. We had made ourselves willing to speak to those concerned citizens who had raised questions about this, namely, John Thacher who also brought in the Ferguson museum, Mr. Thacher speaking for Fishers Island Conser- vancy. However, upon receiving that letter I spoke to Mr. Stripp and advised him that you wanted us to contact both of those organizations and Mr. Strlpp has done so. He spoke to Mr. Thatcher on Monday and Mr. Thatcher suggested that he speak to Mr. Ferguson. I don't want to go into what he said, but I think his motives are extreme in the sense that he is not concerned about native Americans. I think he doesn't want this property to be built on period even though Mr. Strlpp has been patient and environmentally sensitive throughout the process. Then, yesterday Mr. Stripp spoke to Charles Ferguson of the Ferguson Museum who suggested that he conduct a survey namely, stage 1, archeological survey. I think that's what he had in mind. In neither case did the Nature COnservancy or the Ferguson Museum offer to pay for any of these things. Mr. Stripp asked me, "Well what do Page 76 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~[~ Southold Town Board of Appeals you think it would cost?" Mr. Ferguson had told him that John Pfeiffer will be over on the island. John Pfeiffer, an archeologist whose done work for clients of mine before and has done a good bit of work on the island, in fact he had been to this property some years ago would be there in May and June so Mr. Stripp asked me to contact him which I did last night to try and get an estimate of what the cost for doing some test holes in this building area would be and we received a quote and Mr. Strlpp has not on my advise but has being a good neighbor and sensitive to people on Fishers Island even though I think many are at least one of them does not want to see him build here is going to pay for it up to a limit of $1,500. BOARD CLERK: To pay for what. MR. HAM. To pay for Dr. John Pfeiffer to do some test holes at the building area on the site to remove any sensitive or, I shouldn't say sensitive, or any artifacts that might have some interest or value. Mr. Stripp told Mr. Ferguson that he is willing to donate those to the Ferguson Museum which pleased him Pfeiffer does not have a fax machine. survey which he didn't have and he and that's where we are. Dr. I wanted to fax him a copy of the was suppose to get back to me today and that which he didn't but he did estimate in a range of $1,000 to $1,200 to do the study. He operates I know because he's doing some other work for me over there. $75 per test hole and I think he said 10 or 12 test holes so it might even be less than that and of course the Stripps as I mentioned at the last hearing are not going to build anyway even if the variance i~s granted until the fall so there's plenty of time for that although Dr. Pfelffer is not going to be able to do it Page 77 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May u,, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals while he's working on this other project on the island but he said he can easily do it during the summer at some point before this is done, so we obviously we have to work out some details on that but I think the Strlpps are really being most cooperative here when the only evidence before your Board at the last hearing that was presented and no-one's here tonight I don~t think to present evidence otherwise is that the DEC looked at this, made a finding under the State Stork Preservation Act to the effect that there were no significant archeological remnants at this location and yet on innuendo you know we're proceeding to make an additional expenditure. If the Stripps haven't shown good faith I think MR. CHAIRMAN: Would you thank Mr. Stripp for me. We're do we go from here in reference to the dealing with this application prior to the Trustees completing their review? MR. HAM. I do not see the two as, I don't see why this couldn't be granted subject to Trustee approval. I can't, I can't imagine that their going to do something other than maybe some additional mitigating measure that the DEC or the Health Department didn't think of in terms MR. CHAIRMAN: When did you you think? MR. HAM: I'm told that we say you're going to be on with them do should be able to be on this coming meeting. They've already been to the site so their assessment basically is done so if this application and Mr. Just's preparing is in by Friday I'm told, that it will be calend~red for May 26th. Page 78 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 1~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: Can I suggest, could I suggest that we as a matter of formality that we close this hearing with no, no further oral testimony unless of course there's a severe need for it for any particular reason based upon on June 1st and this way we can have the entire decision from the Trustees in total and we know where we're going from at that particular point. I don't think it would be our interest to complete this at this point here knowing right well that you know if they made a minor change here or. MR. HAM: That's fair enough. MR. CHAIRMAN: BOARD CLERK: for 62 days? MR. CHAIRMAN: No, I~m not hearing on June 1st. BOARD CLERK: Just closing saying, that's closing it. OK. Does anybody have any objection to this? We're closing the hearing and just carrying it over closing the hearing. I'm closing the it as to oral testimony is what you're MR, CHAIRMAN: No, I'm not closing June 1st. BOARD CLERK: You're going to recess it, OK. MR. CHAIRMAN: We'll recess it until to June formality on June 1st. BOARD CLERK: Then you're going that he may not have to come back. MR. CHAIRMAN: That is correct. BOARD CLERK: OK. it, I'm going to leave it open to 1st and close it as a to tell Mr. Ham that it's possible Page 79 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May 4, 19~ Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. CHAIRMAN: If you have a decision from the Trustees an d everything is favorable just shoot it into us and that's all we need MR. HAM: OK. MEMBER DOYEN: If you'll recall at the last meeting and there was a letter from FICO regarding the setback, did you MR. HAM: Yes, yes I totally, Mr. Stripp spoke to Mr. Tom Doherty of FIDCO and another reason perhaps to hold this opened. I sent them another map. I had sent it out with a notice of hearing and so forth but an outlining on that map the facts that although the setback from the property line was a mere 20 feet the setback from the actual edge of the road that's used is at least u~0 feet. rICO has its, I don't know how often they meet, but there meeting in New York City on Monday night and we'll discuss this in terms of their position. MEMBER DOYEN: We'll will we take that MR. HAM: Well I'd like to stress that their decision is while it may influence you it's still a private decision. What, what we're here before your Board is MEMBER DOYEN: Well I'm aware of their decision MR. HAM: I mean he's got to deal with them anyway as you know on all of these properties. They have the right to approve plans and so forth. MEMBER DOYEN: No, but in the interest of working with them and it's just as well to have that out of the way in that they agreed to the setback. Their argument is rather thin anyway because if you go across the street there's a structure there building that's very close to the road which probably be~closer than theirs. ,P,acle 80 - Hearing Transcript Regular Meeting of May L[. Southold Town Board of Appeals MR. HAM: Right, that"s what I pointed, I pointed that out in that memo that I gave you last month. Well, I don't know, it's similar let"s say. MEMBER DOYEN: Nevertheless it's there. ---- MR. HAM: Oh, absolutely - yeah, and the other proceeding is that is not to Oriental Avenue it's not the main road to the East End. It's not something that people are going to see very much. There are few, few MEMBER DOYEN: No, especially if they are going to block off probably some of it down below. MR. CHAIRMAN: Another thing I want to say to you is this plan as it's before us may not be totally etched in stone, there may be modifications, all right, and that may be something the Board may render with its decision, so just so you're aware of that situation. Even though the Trustees may come back there may be a modification here or there that we may deal with. OK. MR. HAM: OK. Fair enough. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else from Fishers Island that would like to talk about this? OK. Hearing no further comment I"11 make a motion recessing this to the next regularly scheduled meeting only for the purpose of closing it (at that time). All in favor? ALL MEMBERS: Aye, Prepared from tape recordings of actual hearings. L/K'L/F i ECEIVED AND FILED BY YHE SOUiHOLD TOWN CLEBK DATE ~,/~/~/ HOUR %~/s-~t,~ Town Clerk, Town of ' ' ,: .~ ~t:~old