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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-12/08/1993 HEARING APPEALS BOARD MEMBERS "(}.:,'7;/.:-:~f~~:~~ "~"" ",,}·¡,..,t... ?) s ",/c:;> c' " ('&"'~~~ r'y ;7!f ~.".. ,",,- ~ ,) ,,,,' -"' N \:,~ ... >,¡ .-.""" _I ,; '-- ""', \~~ >~~ ~ ',C,'-' ,,~' '¢...,?It)¡ '-. ~ ~ ~--r'y ~_:~c.::z-.--'_CCcr:¡j)Y SCO'IT L. HARRIS Supervisor Gerard P. Goehringer, Chainnan Serge Doyen, Jr. James Dinizio, Jr. Robert A. Villa Richard C. Wilton Telephone (516) 765-1809 BOARD OF APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Town Hall, 53095 Main Road P.O. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax (516) 765-1823 Telephone (516) 765-1800 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD December 8, 1993 (7:30 p.m. Hearings Commenced) Pre s e n t HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, Chairman SERGE DOYEN, ~ ember JAMES DINIZIO, JR., Member ROBERT A. VILLA, Member RICHARD C. WILTON, Member CLAIRE GLEW, Temporary Secretary, pro tern Page 2 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 APPL. NO. 4202 4205 4203 4204 4195 4199 4206 I N D E X Applicant Paqes ROBERT AND JACQUELYN OBERLIN . . . . . .. 3-5 SALVATORE VINDIGNI. 6-9 ROBERT E. BIDWELL 10-25 JOHN CROKOS . . 28-32 PETROL STATIONS LTD.. 33 PETER PSYLLOS . 34-43 GARY AND CAROL FISH 44-47 APPLlCATlON NO. 4202 - ROBERT AND JACQUELYN OBERLlN. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article lllA, Section 100-30A.4 <100-33> for approval of an existing accessory utility storage shed which is located in the southerly front yard area. The sUbject premises is not a corner lot but fronts along two streets. This property technically does not have an established "rear yard" defined by the code. The subject premises is located in the R-40 Zone and contains an area of 19,200+- square feet. 7:12 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: We have a copy of a survey from Roderick Van Tuyl, P.C., dated back in November 4, 1965, indicating the shed, its approximate placement on the property. The members of the ZBA have been there; they have seen the property. They have seen the shed, and I personally have visited it, and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this 'and surrounding properties in the area. Is there anybody representing? Could I just ask you to use the "mike" and state your name? Appearance: Bridget Dia of Celic Realty, for Applicêlnt MS. DIA: My name is Bridget Dia. I work for Celic Realty. I am the salesperson involved in the sale of this Page 4 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 property to the client. I have taken photos and would like to submit them. THE CHAIRMAN: Surely. Thank you. MS. DIA: This was taken from the house facing the shed. This was taken from the road. It is there someplace. That is how you can see it. THE CHAIRMAN: We will pass these photos down. Is there anything you would like to state for the record? MS.. DIA: In looking at the tax map, it seems that those were two lots at one time, and I believe they were merged. All the other neighbors have two separate lots, so it ~-, is now one merged lot. THE CHAIRMAN: Just for the record, so that everybody is aware of the situation, I presently work for the Suffolk County Department of Law; and in that position they require me to have a broker's license. I do have a real-estate broker's license. At this particular time the real-estate broker's license is held by Celie Realtors or Celie Realty, which is the same organization this purchaser is affiliated with. I do not have anything to do with this sale, and there is no money coming anyway depending upon how I vote on this application, just so that everybody is aware of it. Thank you very much. Is there anybody else who would like to speak, either in favor or against this application? Any questions from any Board members? BOARD MEMBERS, No. Page 5 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of AppeaJ5§ Wednesday, December 8, 1993 THE CHAIRMAN: In dealing with this particular application, I think Mr. Wilton said it as eloquently as possible, and maybe he would like to make the motion on it. MEMBER WILTON: I move that we accept the application as submitted. (seconded and carried unanimously; see Clerk's minutes. ) THE CHAIRMAN: The only requirement that we will put in there is that it remain as a storage shed, and it remain just as it is today. Okay, thank you very much for coming in. MS. DIA: Thank you. Page 6 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 APPLICATION NO. 4205 - SALVATORE VINDIGNI. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article IlIA, Section 100-30A.3 for permission to consttruct addition which will exceed the 20% lot coverage limitation. Location of Property: 1440 Gillette Drive, East Marion, NY; county Tax Map District 1000, Section 38, Block 2, Lot 15; also referred to as Lot No. 19 on the Map of Marion Manor filed March 18, 1953 in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office. This property is located in the R-40 Low-Density Residential Zone District and has a total lot area of 10,000 sq. ft. 7:35 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the legal notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: We have a copy of a survey produced by Sea-Land Engineers dated May 15, 1986, indicating the two-story / structure with a two-car garage attached. It is not a structure, it is a dwelling. The nature of this construction is penned in, which is an area in the rear of the dwelling and squaring off, and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who would like to be heard? Could I just ask you to state your name for the record? Appearance: Matthew Hallock, Contractor, for the Applicant. Page 7 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 ~, MR. HALLOCK: My name is Matthew Hallock, and I will be the contractor if the job is approved. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. The nature of the construction is what? Is it going to be a complete addition? Because one of the members came back and said that a portion of it is going to be a deck area, and then it will be partially enclosed. MR. HALLOCK: Yeah, we have a roofed-over area that is proposed with screens. The screens have not been decided upon as to whether or not they will be installed at the time of the project, and one thing else that we did not mention on it that we would like to ask for --is the possibility of closing that /.---~, whole area in with windows at some time in the future if they so decide to do that. THE CHAIRMAN: So, in other words, it is going to be a total addition? There is no portion of it that maybe for a little or a short period of time-- MR. HALLOCK (interposing): That area will be covered with deck initially, and the roofed-over structure will be put on with posts. That would be the definite initial step; and, as of now, the screens would be put in. That would be the most likely plan for now, as far as filling in between the posts; and in the future, there would be a possible-- They would like to have approval for the possibility to put in solid panels if they decided to close it in completely. ,~ Page 8 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town BoardQf Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, it is an addition to the building anyway. Unless it was strictly a deck, we.would say that that was the situation. We would ask for it not to be roofed; but you are asking for something that is going to be roofed anyway, or a portion of it. So we are really asking for an addition, no matter how you slice it. Okay, does anybody have any questions of this gentleman, Bob? MEMBER VILLA: Out of curiosity, I am trying to put it together in my mind -- The proposed new deck, that is going to be between the existing house that sticks out, and this new piece that is going to be screened in MR. HALLOCK: The deck will go underneath that new area as well. There is nothing there. MEMBER VILLA: It is going to be wood deck? MR. HALLOCK: That's right. As of now, that is a wood deck that will go there, all 31 feet, I believe. THE CHAIRMAN: 12 by 31? MR. HALLOCK: That would be the first step. And then that roof would be built on top of the deck. MEMBER VILLA: So you never really heat it that way in the wintertime? MR. HALLOCK: Thèy may move to close in later on, and they would have to do steps to close up cracks in the floor and that type of thing. That is why I say initially it is .' Page 9 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 --screening is even a question at the time but most likely at the completion of the job screens will be installed. MEMBER VILLA: I have no other questions. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, sir. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor? (There was no response.) THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody who would like to speak against? (There was no response.) THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing no further questions, we will talk about this. You are welcome to stay here; I don't expect it to be a late evening. I just don't know how the Board ~~'" members feel about it, so we will close the hearing and reserve decision until sometime in the future, which is about an hour from now, hopefully. May I have a second on that resolution? MEMBER VILLA: Second. (Carried; see Clerk's Minutes.) .- Page 10 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 APPLICATION NO. 4203 - ROBERT E. BIDWELL. Application for Special Exception under Article III, Section 100-31B-13 of the zoning ordinance, for approval of winery uses in existing building and proposed building. The site plan shows that the property is located in the A-C Agricultural-Conservation Zone District and is identified on the Suffolk County Tax Maps as District 1000, Section 96, Block 4, Lot 4.3. 7:40 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal 'i.;, Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: We have copy of a site plan, which I will pullout du!ing the hearing, and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. The nature of the application is a wine-tasting room and some enhancement to the grounds of the property itself. And I guess we will ask you, Bob, if you want to start the presentation or-- ROBERT BAILEY: Okay. What I would like to do is to introduce to the members of the Board the Bidwell family. This is Kerry Bidwell on the aisle, Jim Bidwell, and they are going to talk a little bit about what they want to do; and a little bit about the history of their business. THE CHAIR¥~N: Thank you, Mr. Bailey. Shoot. Page 11 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 MR. BIDWELL: Just very briefly, we need to bring the existing buildings into the proper sea of open uses (sic) that weare using them for. Right now, there has been some (inaudible brief phrase) in the past. And we definitely need to enhance the grounds, make it more appealing. Make it so that it is an enhancement to the Town of Southold, and for our business as well. We are ten years growing grapes, seven years making wine. The wine sells extremely well across Long Island, and we feel that we lack a tasting room that has the correct ambiance to reflect the quality of the wine that we are producing there. THE CHAIRMAN: Great. Just let me have your first .~ name. SPEAKER: Donald. THE CHAIRMAN: Not yours, his. VOICE: Kerry. THE CHAIRMAN: I have to have that for the record because Linda is not here tonight. I apologize. All right. Who is speaking next? JIM BIDWELL: I would just like to add to that. My name is Jim Bidwell, and we have been doing this now for some years out here, and I guess we are all aware that the building we have been working out of is not the most attractive building on Route 48, arrd we would like to change that. Most of the thrust of what we are tryin::¡ to accomplis¡1 now is to beautify what we have so that the business can corrtinue to go in the .- Page 12 - Transcript of Hearings South01d Town Board gf APP~ÃJ,ê, Wednesday, December B, 1993 direction it really needs to go, and we accomplished every other aspect of this business and that has allowed us to fund this and it is really what we need and what we need as soon as possible in order to capitalize on next summer's tourism season, to keep ourselves going, and the timeliness of the project is also of great concern to us because we are trying to have ourselves set up so that next summer we are ready to do business there. THE CHAIRMAN: What do you expect the total cost of the enhancement including the tasting room, at this point? JIM BIDWELL: We haven't got it out or any prices back yet on the plans, so it is conjecture at this point, but we are hoping it will be something around $250,000, maybe $300,000. THE CHAIRMAN: That is a sizeable investment. MR. BIDWELL: Yes, it is; and it is about as much as we can do; but we are taking all the resources that we have to try to beautify this place for our sake and for the sake of the Town, just get it where it should be. THE CHAIRMAN: Very good. Thank you. Who is next? MR. BAILEY: I would like to introduce the architect, Don Currie, who will talk with you about the design and what the intentions are, and the significance of the design, because it is considerable. In this case, as the owners mentioned, you are dealing with a building which is probably amonn the homeliest of .all the wineries if not all tile buildings you see on R'Jute 48, so-what ia proposed will definitely make a dramatic change in Page 13 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 that aspect, and at the same time give the business a very important place to meet the public, sell wine, and a new face on the world, so Don Currie will talk about that. THE CHAIRMAN: While they are moving that model in, I just want to restate for the record that, for everybody in the audience that we did have thé pleasure of meeting these gentlemen on Saturday. They were very gracious in presenting a tour of the facility --you can put those on the chairs if you want-- excuse me-- We did meet with the Planning Board, and we did meet with one member of the Building Department, and as I said, we have seen this plan, and we --How could anybody ~'\ disagree with it, quite honestly? You are on, Don. DON CURRIE: My name is Donald Currie. I am an architect, and Drew Renter is my colleague from the office; and we have actually been working on this for about a year. We met with Bidwe11s last January and (phrase indistinguishable) what they could do for the modest sums of money they had; and what they really wanted to do was make an inviting place, to find out what wine is about on the North Fork, and I have had a weekend place out here since 1980 so I certainly know something about the North Fork and I don't know if any of you have seen the existing buildings, but they are very "plain-Jane" buildingcs, and the idea was to bu~ld a tasting room and place it in a place that would encourage UG not to spend a lot of money on the ~' existing building. What we are really qoing is --the real work . Page 14 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board.pf Appeals Wednesday, DecemberS, 1993' of making the wine occurs in the existing buildings. We are painting those buildings. We are putting a lot ot planting and pergolas, and so forth, in front of those buildings; and then --I think I can turn this up so that everybody can see-- what we are really doing, these are the existing buildings, and we are building about a forty-foot-square 1,600 to 1,800 square-foot tasting room and little ancillary space. That is a big tasting room. We can go into one big room with a horizontal surface --a bar if you will-- where you can taste the wine, and then in these four corners we have restrooms and storage room for the wines that (two words inaudible) for a couple days, and then, what you do: I think you all know the North Road; there is a sign out there now for Bidwell and the existing building. You can come in off the North Road; there is parking for handicapped and for the public along here, additional parking along the side of the building. We built a little structure here, a garden structure that is kind of a landmark to catch your eye; but you can see it i lower than the existing, barnlike building; and we turned the entrance of the tasting room into a new space. A courtyard is created by the existing buildings and the tasting room; so you come into the courtyard and then go into the tasting room, so you are in like a little special world there away from the traffic of the North Road. We are adding a pvrgo~a; that is, a wood and metal structure with vines growing on it to kind of ~ask and scale down the existing building; and Page 15 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 we are adding a box of trees that people can sit out under the trees and look out into the vineyard, and it is all a part of not only tasting the wine, but there is also an education going on here, finding out about how wine grapes are grown and wine is made; so tours will begin in this courtyard. People will get an introduction to how wine is made in the tasting room, and then be taken around to the process of crushing and there is a crush-pad in the back here (indicating) and they will be able to see how the wine is made in the big building and then out into the courtyard where it is put into focus. What it really is is a tasting room and place to find out about wines. That is /~" pretty much it. Is there any question? We have a color drawing that shows something about the colors and materials that we are using. As you can see, the new building is a little bit lower than the barn-like building at the back.' We are using --We brought some of the materials with us. There is the board. THE CHAIRMAN: Don, the only gentleman who was not there was Mr. Doyen from Fishers Island, so you mi_rlt want to show him a couple of those samples you have there. MR. CURRIE: Okay. There are really three major materials associated with the new building; that is, a concrete block on the four corners, which are the restrooms and storage spaces', and then a corrugated t,ranslucent material which I will explain in just afuoment, which spans betweFn each of the four ,----, corne~s; and a corrugated metal gr01-'í? which is a blue color .' Page 16 - Transcript..ofJ:I~~Jî+B9~ ",;t,¡'.?'j' G Southold Town Board of Appeals . Wednesday, December 8, 1993 which is a similar material to the material that is already on the roof. The concrete block is not your standard concrete block that you normally see in our basement family rooms or whatever. It has a stone in it and is polished, and it is kind of an enhanced concrete block. It is quite handsome, and looks pretty good. This is (showing) a standard concrete block, but it has this kind of look to it. Then the material between each of the four corners is a sandwich-like material that is translucent and is not too dissimilar to this --and this is pretty difficult to tell you what it is-- It meets energy codes but" if I were to hold it out --and there is not enough light in this room-- but it is translucent. In other words, light can go through this material, and it still meets (word indistinguishable) codes because it has insulation on the inside and in this plastic-like material, fibreglass material, on the two faces; so what it will do is, when you are in the tasting room during the day, it is going to seem like you are still sort of like being outdoors. It is, are you in or are you out? At night, with just a single light on, and the place is closed, it will kind of have a glow to this, and will be like a lighted pavilion; and we thought that the building --this is a quasi-public building, let's make the contribution --This building needs to make a contribution to Southold. And it is a buildir.g1that is seen from the-road. Most of us pass on the North Road quite frequen~ly, and it will be an enhancement, not " Page 17 - Transcript of Hearings 5úuthold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 ,--~" only to what the Bidwe1ls are doing here, but to the sense of what is happening in the community because this will be a nice-looking building, whether it is night or day. And the only other material is a blue color that we are using on the roof, that is a kind of roof color also, so it is not a building that say jumps out at you such as a red barn would, or whatever. But has this kind of subtle material. I~ there anything any of you might add to it? What I have said. Any questions about what we are doing or proposing? MEMBER DINIZIO: Are the existing buildings going to be. painted to match? ~ MR. CU~IE: They are not painted to match. We felt .that, you know, these buildings have been built over a period of years. They are of different scale, so we are painting them in three kind of earth colors. We are painting them in a sepia brown and a gray color, mostly colors that you see in this block color. THE CHAIRMAN: So they won't have the blatant yellow then? MR. CURRIE: They won't have the blatant yellow. They are going to sort of sit back in the landscape. There is a building beside it, and it will fit back in the landscape. It will if it can. (Lauqhter. ) THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. .' Page 18 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of 1\.ppea\l,s,\c+cc i¡;~;f:f\'i+,c... Wednesday, December 8, 1993 MEMBER DINIZIO: Gerry, I have a question. I notice on the site plan it says you are going to heat it by oil. Where is the oil-tank going to be? I hope it is going to be above-grade? MR. CURRIE: Yes; one of these four corners is going to be the (word inaudible) room. It is divided; the oil tank is contained within; it will sit below the floor-level, so that should the oil-tank leak, it will be contained. MEMBER DINIZIO: But it will be visible, because that is in a core watershed area, and we don't like to see buried tanks if we can help it. MR. CURRIE: It is within one of these basic (indicating). THE CHAIRMAN: Good question. The only question that we have --I don't know if I should address either one of you gentlemen-- but it did come up during the tour, and it is not part of this application-- but certainly we applaud all the wineries out here. They have done a phenomenal job. The last one that came before us was Pellegrini, which is a magnificent building in Cutchogue, and this property also happens to be in Cutchogue, but it appears that in time there will be additional buildings needed, assuming that and hopefully that everybody will be successful and that this will continue. Is there any pldn on where yo~ would put adùitional barn-storage 0.. this property, assuminq that ~hat nas to happen? . 'rm Page 19 > Transcript of Hearings Southold ~own Board of Appeals Wednesday, December a, 1993 MR. CURRIE: The public image for now will remain with this building. If they need to expand production, that will happen behind the existing barnlike building, and they intend to go back, and underground. The next thing they need to do is create-- THE CHAIRMAN: --a wine cellar? MR. CURRIE: A wine-cellar for barrel storage. So their plans for expansion would be another building probably of similar footprint size, behind the building, and they intend to go back with production; and those are the intentions for now. I don't .~, THE CHAIRMAN: It is not etched in stone, okay. Thank you very much. Let's just talk briefly in general what we are going to do here. We are going to continue with the site plan with the Planning Board; is that what the story is? We are going to hold this in abeyance until the parking plan is to their liking? And then we are going to come back with any minor revisions that may exist on this, is that right? MR. BAILEY: That's right. Right now we are waiting for the site plan review guidance of Robert Kassner to give us something specific. He has already mentioned a few things to me about labeling, which is easy to accomplish; but I don't have any specific objections as of yet from the Planning Board. As soon as I have something, we will act on it. We are just I~' waiting for some feedback, r~ght now. Page 20 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board, .øf Appeals» ,,~!<y Wednesday, December 8, 1993 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. MEMBER VILLA: Have we established the actual setbacks from the road? THE CHAIRMAN: No, that was the next question. But why don't you ask him? MEMBER VILLA: One of the questions we had was the exact setbacks from the corner of the building and also we have to address that little cul-de-sac or whatever you call it that they are proposing. MR. CURRIE: I got out my scale and it comes to 126 feet. MEMBER VILLA: What about the little structure you are using as a guide on there or something? MR. CURRIE: lID, 108 feet. MEMBER VILLA: That one directing you in, it is that far back? MR. CURRIE: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: What do you propose that the approximate height of that small little structure would be? MR. CURRIE: I think it is just about 20 feet 8 inches. THE CHAIRMAN: Because we have a "max" on an accessory structure at eighteen. That is the reason I asked the question.. So then we would have to revise the plan to include that· small variance that would be required, and you have ti~e to do that. You cart just modify ·it. We wnuld want to re-address .' -11-' Page 21 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 it, though, and re-advertise for the next hearing. But everybody is in agreement that we are going to hold this in abeyance until the Planning Board finalizes the parking plan, is that correct? MR. BAILEY: I guess there isn't much choice because obviously THE CHAIRMAN: I can close it, Bob. There is absolutely no problem with that. I don't mean to take your words out of your mouth. MR. BAILEY: All I can say is the Bidwells are anxious to shoot for an early ground-breaking; so whatever has to be ~ done with the Town, why, will have to be done. We need to get some information back now; that is what I am waiting for. THE CHAIRMAN: Why don't we do this: Why don't we-- MR. BAILEY (interposing): Can you give conditional approval? THE CHAIRMAN: We can't. What we can do is, we can hold it over until the January meeting; and if you have not received anything, we will close the hearing at that point. I don't think it is necessary to bring these two gentlemen from the city out here, you know. We loved your presentation on Saturday, and I love it today, to be honest with you. In no way do we want to stagnate a situation, you know. You can get prices and get everything ro)ling so that you are rGady to go. ~ I f the winter is warr" enough, you can bui 1 d it this winter, Page 22 - Transcript;9fHeaiEings. ;'}';d;" 30uthold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 there is no question about it. That is the way everything has gone. I don't think there is anybody on this Board --and I didn't poll anybody because that is not what we do, but I don't think there is anybody that is against this application, is there? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I just would like to see maybe if you could put down on one of the final maps, the setbacks. THE CHAIRMAN: Let's do this, Bob. Let's have you modify the existing application to indicate the height of the small accessory structure, and those measurements, that one 123 did'you say? 126 and 108. And then we will be ready to approve it in January. Again, the parking plan is not necessarily the purview --I mean, it is not the purview of this Board, but we would like to have a complete plan. MEMBER VILLA: I would like to see sign tower design so we know it complies with the Town sign language, too. THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. BAILEY: It is truly not intended to be a sign tower. As we described to you over the weekend, it is more to take your attention away from what we consider to be the service side of the building. THE CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. BAILEY: That brought you around this way rather than what was hapPening back h3re. THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. " Page 23 - Transcript o[ Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 --, MR. BAILEY: It will have the Bidwell name on it, but you know the letters are fifteen inches high or something and from a distance will never be read, so it isn't intended to be a sign there. MEMBER DINIZIO: Is there a possibility you could make that so it does not need a variance? THE CHAIRMAN: They can apply for it, and we can restrict it to 18 feet. Either that or you can modify it to 18 feet. MR. BAILEY: Can this accessory structure have internally lit capability to light a directional sign? ~, THE CHAIRMAN: We have to now get into the sign ordinance portion of it, okay? And that is an issue that I would ask you to address with the Building Inspector; and that is why I think it is good to have' this period of time; then come back to us in January. The meeting was going to be January fifth. We are going to modify it, and I am going to ask the Board if they will go along with January 12th which is a Wednesday night, and in fact we can say it is only five weeks from today; so let's take all that into consideration so that we have everything done and are ready to go. Is that all right? MR. BAILEY: Fine. ~~, Page 24 - Transcriþt.of Southold Town Board oæ Wednesday, December 8, 1993 MEMBER VILLA: I would just like to see that he complies with those Town Codes. And the signs. THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. And we do have a thing about specific statements in the Code under the sign ordinance to read on lighting of directional signs, and I personally don't even know if we have any directional signs anymore that are lit anywhere in the Town; and I think that was the purpose of the '89 code, so-- Not that this is really a directional sign because it is on the property, but the only thing you would be directing it to would be to a specific parking lot or whatever so it is not really a directional sign. MR. BAILEY: That is, after all, the weak corner of the site. It is not in any way as interesting as the other side. So this is to deflect some attention from the existing building. At least, that's how I understand it from the architects, so I think it is important to have something there, and that was the intent, to have a sign. THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. MR. BAILEY (Continuing): --not per se, something to focus the eye and not on the existing building. THE CHAIRMAN: Also it is great that you put it on there because we wouldn't have come up with this issue of the -~It would have been an incomplete application. We would certainly have granted it without that, I would have -- I am not speaking for the Board. An example of which was in Cutchogue . Page 25 - Transcript of HearIngs Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 _.,r--." with the North Fork Country Club, we went through the granting of that really magnificent building that sits there now; and then when they wanted other things in reference to parking lots and stuff, they did have to come back because of the Code. Okay, gentlemen, thank you. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to speak? Either for or against this application? Before we recess it to the next regularly scheduled meeting. Seeing no hands, I make a motion recessing the hearing to the next regularly scheduled meeting, at this point to be January 12th. (Motion seconded and carried; see Clerk's record.) Page 28 - Trarrscript:'pf 'It¢étL'tri~$ii:d~;¡,t" 'jn)j Southold Town Board of Appeals . Wednesday, December 8, 1993 APPLICATION NO. 4204 - JOHN CROKOS. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article XXIII, Section 100-239.4A{l) for permission to locate pool and related structures within 100 feet of the top of the bluff along the Lóng Island Sound. Location of Property: 2110 Grandview Drive, Orient, NY¡ County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-14-2-3.11. 7:50 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and aopplication for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a site plan. The nature of this application is in behalf of a swimming pool which is þroposed at 62 feet from the lip of the bluff. The house has been approved by this Board in its present position, front yard, rear yard, and so forth. The house is constructed or in construction at this time, and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Could I ask you to state your name for the record, sir? Appearance: Keith Keller of Sandgren, for the applicant. I am from the firm and just wanted to explain a little bit leading up to the placement of the pool in the rear yard. In efforts to maximize the amount of room in the back, the new residence, as you can see, was pushed as far forward, within the setbacks, towards the front of the lot, to maximize the room in the back. The closest point of the pool 'to the bluff is 60 feet. You can see the 75-foot line that ~uns through the back .' Page 29 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 of the property. We did get an analysis done of the bluff by the Land-Use Company, and I have some copies here of the analysis. Briefly, this states that the bluff is stable and baseable. Also, we have pushed the pool as far towards the house, in an effort to be as far from the bluff as possible, and we have it as closs to the house as we think it should be, regarding the shape and shadow lines that would be affected by the new residence that is there. And that is basically it. We are hoping to be able to get this 60-foot variance from the bluff in order to build the swimming pool where it is shown on the plan. THE CHAIRMAN; When Mr. Sandgren was here, he mentioned the decking material to be used around the swimming pool. That is some sort of mosaic tile or Mexican tile or something? Yes, it is a pagan (sic) tile. THE CHAIRMAN: Is that at pretty much ground level? MR. KELLER; Yes, it is. THE CHAIRMAN; Okay. In dealing with the shadowing of the swimming pool, I unfortunately happen to have one in my house, in no way the magnitude of either this property or this swimming pool. In fact, it is rather dilapidated at this time; but unfortunately, I only get sun --and it is in the approximate position this one is-- about three or four hours a day. I had discussed this only with certain people who are in the swimming-pool business, and there is no doubt in my mind 0" Page 30 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appe~t~ Wednesday, DecemberS, 1993"' \ <,j<;!;~~'-f>' thatthis pool, to be utilized, is definitely going to have to be heated by something other than just solar; and it is nice to have sun on the pool when one is swimming in it during the day; but at times it may be more practical --and I realize that it adds to the ambiance of the entire scheme of things here in the site plan-- I have no idea how this Board feels in reference to its placement. I ask you basically if the Board does not concur with the 62 feet, do you suggest that we deny the application, come back with another plan? And I know that you may not be able to answer that tonight-~ or do you suggest that we come back with an alternate setback? MR. KELLER: Well, I would say probably with an alternate setback. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Are there any questions of this gentleman? (There was no response.) THE CHAIRMAN: The only other question I had was, those pillars that are holding up, that are shown in the plan, could the swimming pool be built directly around those? MR. KELLER: I doubt it. THE CHAIRMAN: You doubt it? MR. KELLER: I doubt it, it might undermine the (word ipaudible) that is holding up the deck that comes out. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, tì.ank you. Appreciate it. Yes? . Page 31 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 ,~~ MR. KELLER: Just one question, as far as the alternate setback. Are we referring to the 62 feet? THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, I have no idea how this Board feels. As I said, probably in the eleven years that I have been here, I have never polled a Board --probably it was in a situation you just saw with a winery that I asked them if they had any particular objection to it, and that is probably one of the rare times that I do that, but thank you. MEMBER VILLA: And for the record, it is actually 60 The closest point. Sixty feet. You are absolutely feet and not sixty-two. THE CHAIRMAN: correct. Thank you. .MR. KELLER: So will we be coming back next month for further review? THE CHAIRMAN: No, we will close the hearing and then deliberate. I don't know if we will get to it tonight. Member villa; May I ask a question? THE CHAIRMAN: Surely. MEMBER VILLA: Following up on Gerry's question, how close to the house could you move that pool without doing any, putting the pool in any sort of structural integrity (sic)? MR. KELLER: As it is right now, you can see the dotted line to the living room above grade. THE CHAIRMAN: Right. You are referring to the ~uasi-bay-window that it looks to be? Page 32 - Transcript of'Hearings Southold Town Board of App~a~s Wednesday, December 8, 1993··::····"· -o;.iÛ. ',<",~-,;-- MR. KELLER: Right, above the two pillars. That right now is about eleven feet away; and there is an angle to be posed where you come down for excavation, and you wouldn't want to, like I said, undermine the structural integrity of the pillars there. MEMBER VILLA: Are you saying you are as close as you can be now? MR. KELLER: Yes. Pretty much. We may be able to squeak out another couple feet, but it is pretty --It has been staked out, and from being staked out, you can see it looks kind of close to the house. THE CHAIRMAN: Are there any other questions? (There was no response.) THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you again. There being no further questions, I make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. (Seconded and carried; see Clerk's record.) . Page 33 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 APPLICATION NO. 4195 - PETROL STATIONS LTD. (8:00 p.m.) THE CHAIRMAN: We have a carryover on Petrol Stations Ltd. Is there anyone here for Petrol Stations? (There was no response.) THE CHAIRMAN: We have not received any information from them indicating this. I will suggest to the Board that we write the attorney a letter, and find out why they haven't indicated to us that they wanted to be here tonight. ,~ ~. - . -"'_'~"""""'-~".;'''''''''''''''"'''·;''·'";;''''''·''''''·'o's,",., .,".c_.;'.>' ,.:.,~"..,.._,.,_.,.",..,_.,-,,-,..~,~~"~ ! ',,,,,,, j\,,'\ì ,I" Page 34 ~ Transcript of HeaLiDgs Southo1d Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 APPLICATION NO. 4199 - PETER PSYLLOS. (8:00 p.m.) THE CHAIRMAN: That brings us to Peter Psyl1os. That was a carryover from the last meeting. At that particular time it was requested that a neighbor that a topo be done, and we do have one in front of us; and I will ask Mr. Bruer if there is something he would like to add to the hearing. Appearance: Rudolph Bruer, Esq., for the Applicant. MR. BRUER: Yes, I would. That topo is the only map that we have. You can see it is the original. THE CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. BRUER: It was done very recently. because, as I had indicated to the Board, we would have difficulty with the surveyors. We were not able to get one from Young & Young in time for this hearing; and we did --Mr. Corazzini in conjunction --who was the gentleman that-- ì MR. CORAZZINI (interposing): His name is Jim Costa (phonetic, no spelling supplied record). And he is an inspector for New York State DOT. Him and I actually did the surveyong on Monday and Monday night he went home, and he drew that up on that piece of graph paper, and then I actually brought it Tuesday morning. THE CHAIRMAN: Wonderful. Thank you. MR. BRUER: And they did it as large as they could so it would be available for everybody to see; .and it was really Page 3~ - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 impossible to make multiple copies of it and have them available for every member to view. We took a little bit of liberty there based upon the last hearing --You will notice it is not exactly the way it was described at the last hearing. I think we did it primarily to take into consideration the comments that occurred at the last hearing. You will notice that the setback from the neighbor who did have objections to it --we originally proposed a ten feet-- to be fifty feet. That was also done with the idea of preserving the larger trees which were in the area closer to Mr. Brady's property line. The location as we propose there would be to save as many of the good trees, the larger trees, the older trees that are there; and I think this does a good jOb of it. Of course, if you have any objections to that, we can move it to some other area of the front yard that the Board would see fit. But I think the Board did indicate that it had concern to have us take into consideration the feelings of the ) I neighbor. I think that does it. As I said, it takes I think 50 feet from that neighbor's side. There is a big fence that he has there on that side of the property; and I think it does the best that we can do in terms of saving the larger trees. For the file, we have some photographs of the property. This is taken showing the neighbor's property from the house, as well as --This is a panoramic camera showing from the property the neighbor's property, This is looking south showing the fence here of the neighbors andshowi~g the larger Page 36 - Transcript of Heaririç's Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 trees that it would be the intention to save, rather than as originally indicated we lost some in the middle. I'll leave this for the file. Again, showing the area. This is just a photograph from the house looking at the property to the north, which is the property of Mr. DeChirico. Mr. and Mrs. DeChirico are here tonight, and they are in favor of this application, and THE CHAIRMAN: We hope to dispose of it tonight, Mr. Bruer. MR. BRUER: Again, I would like to reiterate the fact that there is only one neighbor that is complaining. The adjoining neighbors, the original developer of this property, Mr. Sledjeski, has also indicated his approval. I believe, although the record didn't show it, we have given you a copy of his affidavit indicating t~at he had no objection to this ? project in this particular place, and that he approved of the application. THE CHAIRMAN: Good. MR. BRUER: Also present are my clients and five of their children, who are keeping their fiagers crossed, hoping that you will please grant this application. If you have any questions of myself, Mr. Corazzini, my clients, or the neighbor, we will be happy to-- THE CHAI~~: 'rhe only question I had was the issue of the trees. Did we say at the 40-foot setback from the Page 3ï - Transcript of Hearings southold ~own Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 right-of-way, right-of-way referring to the North/South right-of-way-- Are we going to lose more trees, or are we going to --How is the maximazation coming in? MR. BRUER: North-to-south right of wayh? THE CHAIRMAN: Well, there was 60 feet before, the right-of-way which actually leads into their driveway, which leads to the house, that right-of-way --not the right-of-way that continues on going west. RICHARD CORAZZINI: Again, where the lot is, the larger trees are on the outskirts of the lot, and the smaller scrub is in the middle. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. MR. CORAZZINI: If you move the court towards the middle more, you are saving those larger trees and creating a larger dbuffer between the court and Psyllos' house and also a larger buffer between the court and Bradys' fence. , ¡ MEMBER WILTON: Is that now in essence in the middle of the property, where you have it depicted on the map? MR. BRUER: No, it is actually a little further towards the right-of-ways now because if you take the measurements and add them up, you will see it is quite a ways toward the right-of-way. I think we're only 40 feet from the east/west and 34 from the north/south right of way. MEMBER WILTON: Is this the best plan to save the bigger tree,>? Page 38 - Trapscript ~f Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 MR. BRUER: Yes. We may have to go 45 feet to the fense. There is a couple of nice trees on the corner closest to the Chairman (indicating on map} if you are looking at it the same way I am. That would help to save some bigger trees on that side also on that side of the right-of-way. So we may have to go 5 feet closer to Brady's property, 45 feet instead of fifty. THE CHAIRMAN: I was going to suggest that anyway --good. MEMBER VILLA: What was the measurement you gave me the first time from the east/west right-of-way? THE CHAIRMAN: Sixty. MEMBER VILLA: And now it is 40. That is the north/south right-of-way? MR. CORAZZINI: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: How about the other right-of-way? ¡ MR. CORAZZINI:· It is just that we were trying to move it to be considerate of the neighbor and to leave it-- MEMBER VILLA: I was just curious as to what the original dimension was. THE CHAIRMAN: We are getting there. Hold on. It is not on that one (rattling papers}. Seventy-five. MEMBER VILLA: It was 75 from the right-of-way that comes in off Ruth's Road; and now it is going.to be thirty? THE CHAIRMAN: Thirty-four. Page 39 - Transcript of He~rings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 MEMBER VILLA: So you pushed it further away from the house then? MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. BRUER: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: Okay. THE CHAIRMAN: We will take that under consideration, Mr. Corazzini, when we deal with it, possibly forty-five, and from the Bradys, which would give us 45 from the north/south right-of-way. Good. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Bruer. THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of it? Is there anybody who would like to speak --sorry, go ahead. BILL DiCHIRICO: I am the neighbor to the north of the line. I feel that in essaence this won't do anything to deteriorate from the properties. In fact, it might enhance them ? if anything. I have no problem with it. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Appreciate it. Mr. Brady, is there something you would like to say? . WARREN BRADY: Yes. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Board, and Miss Secretary: I had been awaiting arrival of that topo map. I did get to see it this morning when it came in. However, there weren't any copies that could be bought, so I am kind of at a disadvantage, you know, trying to discuss it with you now. Usually, I used to stop at Howie Young's office in Riverhead and hélve all kinds of plans run off in five minutes. Page 40 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals WednesdaYi December 8, 1993 So I am kind of surprised there are no copies available for all of us. I had noticed that the drawing wasn't stamped by a licensed engineer. And that probably was the reason there wasn't copies duplicated. You know when you object to something your neighbor wants to do, you get put in a very uncomfortable position, you know. You really don't like to deny people something they really want, regardless of what their preference is for or whether you never saw them before in your life and they are strangers that marched into the territory. You still feel badly, you don't want to hurt their feelings, you don't want to make enemies. Life is pretty short; and when you get to be my age, it is as short as hell. So I have been fighting the jetties in Riverhead, up from the North Fork Preservation Council. My wife, of course, did most of the work; and then they later changed it to the Environmental Council; and when Bill beChirico's house was being built, we fought that, we 7 hired-- They had pushed the bluff way to the north and moved the bluff edge; and we knew that his house would suffer. But they wouldn't listen to us. We hired Coney (phonetic) and Latham, you know, the environmental boys, to come down and fight it. So now they let them put it in there, so Bill's property has dropped five feet in front in the last five or six years, and he rumor in the trade is his house has a foundation that is cracking and, of course-- MRS. DiCHIRICO: Where did you hear that? Pë.g" 41 - Transcript of Hearin;¡~ Sou·thold Town BGard of Appeals . Wednesday, December 8, 1993 MR. BRADY: I am in the real-estate business. MRS. DiCHIRICO: There is no rumor of any kind-- THE CHAIRMAN (interrupting): This is not germane to the particular issue that is here, so let's get back to that case, Mr. Brady. MR. BRADY: Ok. I am just trying to say I went out of my way trying to save people problems, you know. Now people seem to be ganging up on me, you know? But anyway, after seeing the drawing, we would consider withdrawing our objections in the interest of neighborhood harmony, and that is it, quite sincerely. If they change the drawing setback dimension from 50 to 60 foot on oùr east boundary, thereby moving the court 10 feet to the east, also to maintain existing grade at the south end of the court --no berms, because we end up with a berm and 'then goes a ten-foot fence up, we are going to have something that won't be covered up by trees for a long time. In addition, 7 we would ask that they plant a double alternate row of ten-foot-high spruce trees on the west and south sides of their tennis court, to cover up chain-link fencing, to reduce rain runoff, and soften the loss of all the trees due to grading requirements. Also in response to Mr. Bruer's complaint that the Psyllosses were subjected to an eyesore view from the west side of their house, we would be happy if they would plant trees on the west boundary by the back of their house to screen off Page 42 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 the view of our fence and grounds, and it would save us a view of their exposed foundation. In response to Mr. Bruer's statement at the last hearing that we had an illegal fenc~, I submit copies of our legal fence permits, Forms No. 1 and 2, issued by the Town of Southold April, 1977, signed by Howard Terry, Building Inspector, and this was prior to the erection of any houses on the east side of our property. The basic purpose of fencing was to keep hunters from hunting and shooting across our property. In those days, the people that lived there only came there for the summertime; so as soon as they left in September, the hunters descended on the place and they were shooting allover; and we were there living year-round and we were in danger. So anyway we hope the decision you render will be fair to all parties. Thank your gentlemen, and I will give you this. 7 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. MR. BRADY: Here is the building permit, and if you will bring that to Mr. Bruer's attention and chastise him a little for lying about it, you know.) MR. DICHIRICO: By the way, Warren, if you want to check my foundation -- MRS. DICHIRICO: There's nothing wrong with it! MR. BRADY: Real estate brokers tell me I'm right. MRS. DICHIRICO: I have never heard it and you're a diU!l:ìed liar. Page 43 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 MRS. BRADY I'm a liar? I didn't say anything to you, Elaine. MR. BRADY: I know you have been trying to sell your house for three and a half or four years, and that's' the reason you haven't sold it. THE CHAIRMAN: Ok. If you will all be. so kind as to sit tight for about 10 or 15 minutes, we will start to address this hearing right after this. Is there anybody else who would like to speak concerning this? MEMBER DINIZIO: No. Can I just see the sketch for a minute? THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. I will say for the record and this is, you know, a comment to the Psyllos family, we appreciate immensely the --as well as Mr. Bruer and Mr. Corazzini-- your supplying us with this topo. And really it 7 helps the situation immensely. It really does. MEMBER DINIZIO. I'm all set, Jerry. MR. CHAIRMAN: Ok. Hearing no further questions, I make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision. This resolution was seconded and duly carried. cp Tn "T- Page 44 - Transrript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 APPLICATION NO. 4206 - GARY AND CAROL FISH. Special Exception as provided by Article IlIA, Section 100-31A.2B for permission to establish Accessory Apartment use in conjunction with owner's residenèy in this existing principal building presently occupied as a dwelling with garage. Location of Property: 955 Deep Hole Drive, Mattituck: County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000, Section 115, Block 13, Lot 9. This property contains a lot area of approximately 15,000 sq. ft, R-40 Zone. 8:05 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of Suffolk County Tax map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. I have a copy of a survey which was prepared by Roderick Van Tuyl, PC, dated March 29, 1991, indicating the approximate placement of this one-and-a-half story house, approximately 50 feet from Deep i Hole Drive, 13 feet from the easterly property line, and --actually, it is not east, I apologize-- from one property line --I won't get into the approximate placement-- and 14 feet from the other, and so on and so forth. The nature of this application is an accessory apartment to be utilized in the den area and in the garage area of the existing home: and, again, Mr. Fish was kind enough to show us the place on Saturday. We are well acquainted with the house. Is there anythi~g you would like to add fcr the reapplìr.ation, Mr. Fish? -'1- P_'ge 45 - Tran~~---i:?t of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 GARY FISH: Not really. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I will ask the Board if they have any questions of Mr. Fish? (Board indicates no questions.) THE CHAIRMAN: The only thing that came up was issue of a parking plan. I believe you have a circular driveway in front? MR. FISH: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: And approximately where would the parking spaces be indicated? MR. FISH: Well, there is a driveway right in front of the portion of the house that is going to be the accessory apartment. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. MR. FISH: There is space there for two vehicles, and 7 that is where I planned on providing two spaces for that accessory apartment. THE CHAIRMAN: So directly perpendicular to the front of the garage. MR. FISH: That's correct. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. MEMBER VILLA: How many vehicles do you have there? MR. FISH: Two. MEMBER VILLA: So iE somebody came in there ~nd it was .~ a couple, and they each had a car, it woulù be four? Page 46 - Transcript of E~arìngs Southold Town Board ü£ Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 MR. FISH: That's correct. MEMBER VILLA: Can you get four off of the street? MR. FISH: Yes. I have a circular drive around the whole front of the property, and then there is two spots right in front of the garage. MEMBER VILLA: You would have to earmark those for your tenant. ~m. FISH: That's correct. MEMBER VILLA: So then the other two wou1d-- MR. FISH (interposing): I would prefer to rent to one person. That is my plan, to rent to one person. " MEMBER VILLA: Okay. MR. FISH: I would rather not have two people in it, just one other person. THE CHAIRMAN: The other issue is, of course, we have received a letter from your next-door neighbor who has indicated that he is concerned with certain things. The only concern that we had was the issue of the domestic animals in reference to this. Would anybody that you would be renting to have any animals that would cause any problems? MR. FISH: No, no pets. I shouldn't say that: If they had a bird or a cat, no problem. No dogs. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is there anybody else who has any questions of Mr. Fish? (There WdS no response.) - ...._,._-.~-------- ~. page 47 - Transcript of Hearings Southold Town Board of Appeals Wednesday, December 8, 1993 THE CHAIRMAN: As you know, the speciàl permit is granted as a matter of right (meeting the requirements and standards of the codes). The house does meet the criteria. And we will be voting on it probably, after we vote on a couple of these others tonight, so you can either call us tomorrow or hang around. MR. FISH: Thanks; I'll probably hang around. THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else who would like to speak, in favor or against this application? THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no hands, I will make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. (Seconded and carried; see record of Clerk pro tem.) (End of evening hearings of 12/8/93 as recorded on tape and transcribed. 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