HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-04/22/1993 HEARING PUBLIC HEARING
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
April 22, 1993
(7:30 p.m. Hearing)
P r e s e n t : HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER,
Chairman
JAMES DINIZIO, JR.
SERGE DOYEN
RICHARD C. WILTON
ROBERT A. VILLA
CLAIRE GLEW (substitute recording clerk)
~C~IVED AND FILED BY
~ SOU~OLD TOW~ C~RK
I N D E X
APPLN. NO. NAME Pages
4162 THE INGEBORG TALLAREK TRUST 2-3
4163 RUSSELL IRELAND, JR. 4-15
4059 JOHN SEPENOSKI, JOHN A. NOBILE and 16-22
SUSAN NOBILE (Michael N. Hills, Esq.)
4157 DEPOT ENTERPRISES, INC. 23-37
4156 GARDINERS BAY ESTATES CLUB, INC. 38-62
(record Owner as per Deed at Liber 7671
page 415) - filed by
GARDINERS BAY ESTATES PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION
APPLICATION No. 4162 - THE INGEBORG TALLAREK TRUST
(Regi Weile, Architect) Request for Variance to the Zoning
Ordinance, Article XXIII, Section 100-239.4A for permission to
locate an addition within 100 feet of the L.I. Sound bluff at
905 Aquaview Avenue, East Marion, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No.
1000-21-2-11. This parcel is substandard in this R-40 Zone
District and contains a total lot area of approximately 24,000
square feet.
7:30 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a survey indicating
the addition of approximately 20 feet. The addition is on the
front of the garage. It still allows 50 feet from Aquaview
Avenue to the dwelling itself. This application is an addition
in the respect that under 239.4 of the Zoning Ordinance, the
entire house is within 100 feet of the edge or the bank of the
bluff; and I have a copy of the Suf£olk County Tax Map
indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is
there somebody who would like to be heard?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Again, ~4162. Is there anybody who
would like to speak in favor of the application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody who would like to speak against
the application?
ZBA Hearings 3 April 22, 1993
There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Questions from Board members?
BOARD MEMBERS: No.
THE CHAIR/~AN: This is a pretty pro forma situation.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you gentlemen have any specific
problem? I know that we weren't necessarily going to vote on
these things tonight, but this one is pretty--
MEMBER VILLA: The setback requirements, that is in
the front yard, right?
THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
MEMBER VILLA: Actually, under the new law does he
even need approval?
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. If you look at the distance
between the top of the bank and the house and include the entire
thing, it includes the addition, so that is basically the reason
why it is before us.
MEMBER VILLA: Even if it is on the other side.
THE CHAIRMAN: Even if it is on the other side. It
doesn't violate the Zoning Ordinance because he still has 50
feet in the front yard, and there is probably an established
setback up there anyway. Hearing no further comment, I make a
motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later.
(Seconded and carried; see Clerk's Minutes.)
ZBA Hearings 4 April 22, 1993
APPL. NO. 4163 - RUSSELL IRELAND, JR.
Request for variances to the Zoning Ordinance: (a) Article
IIIA, Section 100-30A.4 (100-33B-3) for permission to locate
accessory garage with a side yard setback at less than the
required 10 feet; (b) Article XXIII, Section 100-239.4B for
approval of a proposed new deck addition and for grandfather
approval of existing deck addition built prior to May 1985, all
of which is located within 75 feet of the bulkhead along Great
Peconic Bay and with reduced easterly side yard to less than the
20 feet, and total side yards to less than 35 feet, as required
by Article IIIA, Section 100-30A.3. Location of Property: 5400
Great Peconic Bay Boulevard, Laurel, NY; County Tax Map Parcel
No. 1000-128-2-12. This parcel contains a total lot area of
43,402 sq. feet and is located in the R-40 Low-Density
Residential Zone District.
7:35 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I have copy of a survey dated 2/22/90
with additions on 2/9/93, revised 3/18/93, by John Metzger,
Licensed Surveyor, Peconic Surveyors. The nature of the
application is a deck which encloses the majority of the rear
yard of the property leading to the bulkhead which leads to the
Great Peconic Bay, and a garage at approximately 5 feet from the
westerly property line --in this case the southwesterly property
ZBA Hearings 5 April 22, 1993
line-- of 22 by 22. Is there somebody who would like to be
heard concerning this application?
Apuearance: Russell Ireland, Jr.,
Applicant pro Se.
I am the applicant.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have anything you would like to
state for the record before we grill you (jokingly)?
MR. IRELAND: Basically, in terms of the garage, the
original garage that was on the site when we bought the home,
actually encroached on the neighbor's property almost two feet
and had been there. The garage was destroyed in the December
llth storm along with other things and landscaping, so in
re-doing it or in order to re-do it, obviously I had to come
back. I did speak to the neighbors. One of the reasons we
asked to go 5 feet rather than 10 feet was that it allows me
--and I think it shows on the plan-- the driveway is there --and
I don't have to remove any of the existing cedar trees in order
for circulation. It doesn't cause them a problem, and the
neighbors said as far as they were concerned it was okay.
THE CHAIRMAN: Just let me ask you, it's a one-story
garage?
MR. IRELAND: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Correct me if I am wrong, in reference
to this property, Mr. Ireland. Having lived in Mattituck for
the last 27 years or so, I recollect this particular house --not
ZBA Hearings 6 April 22, 1993
the one that you have now, but the one that existed prior to the
1983 storm "Nelson" which in my opinion and again --correct me
if I am wrong-- destroyed your bulkhead; the house was very
close to the bulkhead--
MR. IRELAND: Yes, it was eight feet.
THE CHAIRMAN (continuing): I thought it was about 12
feet. The house then fell into the beach area conceivably
--Half of the house fell in; and the rest of it was just so
badly deteriorated, okay, that I guess it had to be bulldozed or
whatever the case might be.
MR. IRELAND: We rebuilt that structure.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah.
MR. IRELAND: I didn't destroy it. We rebuilt it.
What happened was: The bulkhead was the original bulkhead that
somehow dated back to, I guess, the forties, and the bulkheads
on both sides of me had been rebuilt. Mine wasn't. When that
storm came, some debris came and it broke some of the old
planking out of it and the bulkhead went and the original
pilings were either locust or cedar posts which it had been
built on in, I think the neighbor said somewhere about 1928 or
1930. That eroded. The front of the house basically
collapsed. The rear part of the house was still pretty much
where it had been.
THE CHAIRMAN: But completely open, I remember seeing
it.
ZBA Hearings 7 April 22~ 1993
MR. IRELAND: The front of it was wide open° As a
matter of fact, I gave the, I think it was Linda Kowalski, a
photograph of that which was 1983 or 1984.
THE CHAIRMAN: I think it was in March of 1983. Now,
subsequent to the storm~ you then moved the house, the existing,
whatever was left, you moved it back?
MR. IRELAND: Yes, 20 feet and raised it about four
feet in order to meet the standards for the Federal flood
insurance--.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MR. IRELAND: Because I had no insurance on it at that
time.
THE CHAIRMAN: Now the house lies approximately 38.4
feet from the high-water mark; or what would you say from the
bulkhead? Did you say about 20 feet?
MR. IRELAND: About 26 feet.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 26 feet. When did you actually
build the deck that exists, as it exists now, apart from the new
planking and some of the stuff that was down?
MR. IRELAND: That summer. I believe it was the
summer of '84. Previously, from what I understand, there was
always a deck basically connecting the house to the bulkhead.
It was there when we first bought the house. We did obviously
use more deck there when we moved it back.
ZBA Hearings 8 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: But the actual conformity of the deck
as it exists today is approximately what you built in 19847
MR. IRELAND: Identical. It's never been changed
other than this storm December llth took the main section of the
deck and, along with the garage, you know, it basically lifted
it, and I don't know if any of your Board members has visited
this site--
BOARD MEMBERS: We all -- yes.
MR. IRELAND (CONTINUING): Approximately two-thirds is
still original deck, and about a third of it has been replanked.
THE CHAIRMAN: We notice there is erosion underneath
the deck. That was probably caused by the storm? The lack of
sand, particularly on the northeasterly corner?
MR. IRELAND: Yes. That is correct.
THE CHAIRMAN: Now, when you rebuilt the deck, you
also rebuilt the bulkhead, is that correct?
MR. IRELAND: In 1983, yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: So thgt bulkhead, is a 1983 bulkhead
that we see there.
MR. IRELAND: Right. As a matter of fact, when that
was done, the bulkheads --if you look almost all along that
section of Peconic (Bay), -- almost all the bulkheads were
rebuilt. They weren't all necessarily destroyed like mine were
but most had damage to them°
ZBA Hearings 9 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: The reason why this is so vivid in my
mind is because at that time and I am still a member,
commissioner of the Mattituck Park District~ and we under the
same emergency permit that you used to rebuild your deck, we
asked to destroy about 400 to 600 feet of bulkhead just down the
bay, you know at the end of Bay Avenue~ which we refer to as
Vet's Park, which of course you have a ~right to go to also
because you are a resident in the hamlet of Laurel.
MR. IRELAND: Correct.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So basically what you have done
is merely revitalize this deck based upon what existed in the
December storm?
MR. IRELAND: That is correct.
THE CHAIRMAN: Now, I know that there is a
grandfathering situation in here because you are telling me you
built the deck prior to this law actually going in which we are
now requiring a setback, right?
MR. IRELAND: I never knew about that until we applied
for the variance.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Can you just tell me why the
deck is so important to you as it being a joining factor from
the house to the inside edge of the bulkhead°
MR. IRELAND: It is,' I guess, our yard. Well, two
things. One of the reasons when it was originally built, and I
know from the neighbor directly to the east of us, to some
ZBA Hearings 10 April 22, 1993
extent we know there is going to be more high tides. The deck,
actually, but of course this was an extraordinary situation, but
we typically get water over the bulkhead in the front there, and
the neighbors just have these longer grasses there, typically
get a tremendous amount of erosion. The level that is behind
the deck other than that one corner, where the neighbor's
bulkhead gave 'way, is pretty much the same as it was in 1983
when we did it. It really hasn't changed. To some extent, I
also think it helps protect erosion; but primarily it is a space
that we use you know for lounges and entertainment. It is the
backyard even though i% is on the bay side.
THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I will just ask any of my
Board members if they have any specific questions. I wanted to
ask you about this chronological order in reference to dates
because that is the way I kind of saw it coming down and -- yes,
Jim.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Is the deck actually attached to the
house, is it bolted to the house?
MR. IRELAND: Yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: And it is also bolted to the bulk-
head, or is there pilings?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Is this all one piece--if you lost
the bulkhead and the deck we~t--
ZBA Hearings 11 April 22, 1993
· MR. IRELAND: There is two different levels to it; the
upper level which is bolted to the house and then there is a
step down -- the front level is on its own pilings --they are
attached, there is no break in them. There is a step, but it is
not a continuous level. It is two levels.
MEMBER DINIZlO: So they are not really --if the
bulkhead caved in, the front deck would go, and the back--
MR. IRELAND (continuing): Would stay.
THE CHAIRMAN: The back would break away. Bob?
MEMBER VILLA: There is still work going on with the
deck on the east side. Is that still being constructed or what?
MR. IRELAND: On the east side? There's no work going
on at all.
MEMBER VILLA: Well there was a ramp supposed to be
going up,-- on the survey it shows 'proposed addition.'
MR. IRELAND: Yes. I'm sorry. There's a- that ramp
laying on the ground -- were you on the site?
CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MR. IRELAND: That is laying on the ground, that
originally ran down that side of the house. When the water came
over on that side, it actually broke that off. I didn't replace
that because of our application to extend the bedrooms on that
side. Everything else is exactly as it was. It is true that
one section is laying on the ground, has not been put back, that
ZBA Hearings 12 April 22, 1993
is an original section that is there. I think the railing is
still even attached to it.
THE CHAIRMAN: So you are basically looking at an
eleven-foot sideyard on the easterly side.
MR. IRELAND: Yes. ~
THE CHAIRMAN: With the proposed addition. And
showing an addition of approximately seven feet by 34 plus or
minus on that one side?
MR. IRELAND: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you figur~ 11 feet is all right if
you have to get in there with machinery, you think you can get
in with machinery? If you have to work on the bulkhead again or
whatever the case may be. I know you'll have to take black
pines out and all the rest of it--
MR. IRELAND: Yes. We would even go in after the
house is built to backfill that area. We are going to try to
tie that in with the neighbor directly to the east, where
they've really lost all their building on their bulkhead. Yes,
we can still get in there. You can still get around on the
right side --
THE CHAIRMAN: I am seeing that.
MR. IRELAND (continuing): --with a small machine, if
we have to get to the bulkhead in the front also.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions, gentlemen?
ZBA Hearings 13 April 22, 1993
MEMBER VILLA: What is the percent coverage on the lot
with all of this?
MR. IRELAND: I have to figure--
MEMBER DINIZIO: It's minimal.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes~ it's minimal. It's a big lot.
You didn't own the whole lot at one time, did you? Did you
always own the whole lot?
MR. IRELAND: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MR. IRELAND: Since 1980.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, it's 43,000 square feet, Bob.
Any questions over here?
MEMBER WILTON: You seem to have answered them all.
CHAIRMAN: I am glad we went through that order
because I had to get it in my mind there.
MRo IRELAND: I looked for photographs to put in with
the application of the original, but they went in the storm.
THE CHAIRMAN: I can remember quite vividly walking
down the entire beach area and stopping a little bit past your
house; and I am talking about the 1983 storm. The devastation
was unbelievable. Of course, because a lot of the bulkhead
there was aged bulkhead, and when you had one blow out, it just
continued right down the line.
MR. IRELAND: It went on both sides --because mine
went, both neighbors went.
ZBA Hearings 14 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN (continuing): --went too. Anything more?
MEMBER VILLA: The only other thing I can say is that
I feel I have a little problem with the location of the garage
because I was there and it would appear that the garage could be
moved five feet off that line and not interfere with the
existing driveway. The driveway ls nondescript; it is just
basically dirt.
THE CHAIRMAN: You're talking about moving it more
into the property?
MEMBER VILLA: Yes.
MR. IRELAND: The line on the back we just put up with
a neighbor that were monuments in there. In essence that wasn't
the back of the line.
MEMBER VILLA: You had the garage staked out, right?
MR. IRELAND: The front, yes. Correct. But in order
to pull in there, I laid it out with the architect -- in order
to get in and get out, if we came out the other 5 feet, I would
definitely have to take down cedars on that left side, which
would be the easterly side.
MEMBER VILLA: Ok.
THE CHAIRMAN: The height of the garage to the ridge,
about twelve feet?
MR, IRELAND: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Eight and four, something like that?
MR. IRELAND: Yes.
ZBA Hearings 15 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And the same situation that we
put on, I am just mentioning it to you, the only utility the
garage would have would be electricity?
MR. IRELAND: Electric lights, yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Electric lights, okay. Thank you very
much, Mr. Ireland. You have been very informative° You've
brought back some old facts and old memories. Is there anybody
else who would like to speak in favor of this application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody who would like to speak against
the application?
(There was no resPonse.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing no further com3~ent, I make a
motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later.
(Seconded and carried; see Clerk's Minutes.)
ZBA Hearings 16 April 22, 1993
APPL. NO. 4059 - JOHN SEPENOSKI, JOHN A. NOBILE and SUSAN
NOBILE. (Michael N. Hills, Esq.)
Request for Variances: (a) for approval of access for fire and
emergency vehicles over a private right-of-way pursuant to New
York Town Law, Section 280-A, and (b) to the Zoning Ordinance,
Article XXIV, Section 100-244B (Article IIIA, Section 100-30A.3)
for approval and recognition of substandard lot area and depth,
as exists, in this R-40 Low-Density Residential Zone District.
Location of Property: 5600 Horton Lane, Southold, NY; County
Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-54-3-14.7. This parcel contains a total
lot area of approximately 33,542 sq. ft. and depth of 140.97
feet.
7:49 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a survey produced by
Robert Van Tuyl, P.C., indicating the placement of this lot as
it exists presently behind the Sepenoski house; and I have a
copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Hills, would you like
to be' heard?
Appearance: Michael N. Hills, Esq.,
for the Applicant
MR. HILLS: My name is Michael Hills, the law firm of
Cruser and Hills, 206 Roanoke Avenue, Riverhead, NY. With your
permission, Mr. Chairman, I would like to give each of you
ZBA Hearings 17 April 22, 1993
a set of some of the exhibits I have prepared for my
presentations and cards (Materials handed up, to be marked
Applicant's Exhibits 1 through 6.) I furnished you with various
exhibits. I am now going to try further to explain to you what
circumstances brought about the need for the right-of-way that
is requested as part one of the application, and the reason that
no application had been made for a minor subdivision for the lot
that is the second portion of the application.
Prior to November 12th of 1981, Ollie Overton owned
all the property that is the subject of this application. The
survey of that property, which is Number One on your exhibits,
was prepared in 1950 for John Pettit Overton. That survey shows
that at that time a road called Sylvan Road was going to be
located on the westerly portion of the premises and go around
the circumference of the premises. To the best of our knowledge
the road was never installed. That property that is where the
road is located is now owned by people by the name of Nobile who
are also the applicants here° Jonathan Overton died in 1961 and
devised the property to Ollie Overton. On November 12, 1981,
the Executrix of the Estate of Ollie Overton conveyed the lot
that is now requesting the nonconforming designation to John
Sepenoski, its present owner. Mr. Sepenoski, together with his
wife, had previously purchased a lot that is immediately
adjoining the property; but one lot is held in John Sepenoski,
the one that is the subject
ZBA Hearings ~8 April 22, 1993
of this application, and the other lot is held by John A.
Sepenoski and Susan M. Sepenoski. They obtained title to that
on June 15, 1965. At the time that the deed was delivered to
John Sepenoski, as you can see, it included a right-of-way over
the never-constructed Sylvan Road. "At that time the estate
owned other contiguous parcels that required a minor subdivision
for its legality. No application for a minor subdivision was
made at that time. On January 17, 1984, the executrix conveyed
tho other parcel involved in this application to Albert W.
Albertson, and that is Deed Number 3. Subsequently Albertson
conveyed the parcel in Deed Number 4 to its current owner John
A. and Susan Nobileo This conveyance was made after evidently a
subdivision application had been approved on November 2nd,
1984. It is my belief that the reason that that subdivision
application did not then include a parcel that is owned by John
A. Seponoski is, Number One, Mr. Albertson didn't own it, and,
Number Two, nobody believed they had to make the application
because nobody saw that that was going to be a problem at the
time. Included in that deed to the Nobiles was the land again
on which Sylvan Road was going to be located. Neither of the
deeds --the one to Mr. Albertson or the deed to the Nobiles--
mentioned the Sylvan Road right-of-way or made the conveyances
subject to the possible right-of-way of John A. Sepenoski. What
this did was to landlock John Sepenoski. Subsequently, the John
A. Sepenoski piece has been held in
ZBA Hearings 19 April 22, 1993
single and separate ownership since it was purchased in 1984,
and you have in your file the single and separate search that
evidences that fact° The Nobiles, meanwhiles constructed a
residence on their parcel and located a dirt road in the center
of the purported fifty-foot-wide pole portion of the flag lot.
Subsequently, the Sepenoskis commenced an action in Supreme
Court seeking a declaratory judgment that the Nobiles proPerty
was subject to an easement in favor of said Sepenoski. In
response to a Summary Judgment motion, the Court issued an order
declaring an easement but scheduling a hearing to determine the
extent of the easement. At the scheduled hearing the parties
entered into a stipulation of settlement before Judge Underwood
providing for 15-foot right-of-way. That right-of-way would
extend from Horton Lane to a point 50-foot east of my client's
westerly line. It was also agreed that the Nobiles would
relocate their existing driveway and fifteen-foot right-of-way
so that both lots when improved would use a common driveway.
One of the contingencies for that settlement to be effective is
that this 15-foot-right-of-way be in compliance with the Town's
requirements so that John Sepenoski seeks to obtain a building
permit for a residence on his parcel, the 15-foot-wide access
would not prevent the issuance of a building permit. Just so
that you understand what they did in Court in no way is taking
jurisdiction away from you, they made the settlement completely
ZBA Hearings 20 April 22, 1993
contingent upon your approval. This proposed right-of-way would
only be used by the Nobiles, their successors and assigns, and
John Sepenoski for the rear parcel that he owns. Nobody else
would be permitted except of course anybody who takes from John
Sepenoski that parcel.
A review of the tax map that I have also enclosed in
your file will show that the parcel doesn'~t change the essential
character of the neighborhood. The parcels are still
residential parcels that are used only for that purpose. The
size of the parcel is in complete conformity with the rest of
the parcels in the area. The only difference between the
John A. Sepenoski piece and all the rest of the parcels is that
John Sepenoski has no road frontage.
While the applicants can be said to be in a
self-created hardship situation, that was done prior to any of
the time of these people owning the property. It was done by,
Number One, the inadvertence or failing to include the
right-of-way in any deed, and the lack of --the time of 1981
when the first conveyance was made, coming to this Board for a
subdivision at that time. Under the new Town law self-created
hardship alone does not negate the possibility of giving a
variance. In this particular set of circumstances, inasmuch as
it wasn't an intentional self-created hardship, it was probably
done through lack of knowledge-- it should not be a factor in
when you determine what factors you are going to act upon,
ZBA Hearings 21 April 22, 1993
whether to grant or deny this application. It was created by
the incorrect deeds that had been given out and for no other
reason. If the variance required as requested under the second
portion of the application is further going to be no adverse
effect on the environmental conditions, nor will it be a
detriment to the community. Again, the parcel is going to be
used for residential purposes in complete conformity with all
the other parcels.
The survey shown is No. 6, the one that shows that a
minor subdivision had been applied for by Albert W. Albertson,
that is where the parcel had been, when Albertson had obtained
the parcel, he subdivided it; and No. 2 shows the present
location of the dirt right-of-way in the center portion, and it
also shows the 15-foot right-of-way would be sufficient for any
emergency vehicles that may be coming into the property; and if
you have any further questions, I will be happy to answer
whatever I can.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for the presentation on the
legality or illegality; it is gratefully appreciated because now
we understand how the thing came to be. At the most, of course,
it is our understanding that two houses will share this
driveway, this right-of-way conceivably, okay?
MR. HILLS: That's right.
THE CHAIRMAN: There will have to be some min~r
enhancement, okay. We haven't determined that at this
ZBA Hearings 22 April 22, 1993
particular time, but we will between now and the time that we
CHAIRMAN: make a decision. We are not talking a macadam road
here, we are talking there will be some minor enhancement though
in the right-of-way itself; and the information that we place
within the decision is usually that it be continuously
maintained because we are all concerned about emergency vehicles
ingressing and egressing from the site. That is basically all
that I have to say. Is there anybody else who would like to--
BOARD MEMBERS: No.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else who would like to
speak in favor of this application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone who would like to speak
against this application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no hands, I will make a motion
closing the hearing and reserving decision until later.
(Seconded and carried; see Clerk's minutes.)
ZBA Hearings 23 April 22, 1993
APPLICATION NO. 4157 - DEPOT ENTERPRISES, INC.
(Reconvened and continued from March 18, 1993). Request for a
Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article VII, Section 100-71C
(which refers to 100-31C-4, 100-33 of the residential accessory
use provisions), for permission to establish and locate
accessory outdoor recreational area with outdoor lighting
incidental to the main use of the premises. Location of
Property: 320 Depot Lane, and 29325 Main Road, Cutchogue, NY;
County Tax Map Parcel ID No. 1000-102-2-12.1. Subject premises
is zoned Residential-Office (RO) and contains a total lot area
of 1o6+- acres~
8:06 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the
Legal Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: This is an application that we held in
abeyance at the last open meeting or the last regular meeting,
and we will ask Dr. Lizewski if there is anything he would like
to add to his application prior to commencing any other comments
from the audience.
DR. LIZEWSKI (Applicant): Since I applied for this
application, I have taken the liberty to take the lenses over
the lights and have them sandblasted to get rid of any of the
glare that would interfere with any of my neighbors, and I
realize that these lights will not be used the months of
November,~ December, January, February or March, and that in the
months tha~ they would be used, we have between --eight o'clock
ZBA Hearings 24 April 22, 1993
and nine o'clock is daylight anyway-- then they would be shut
off by ten-thirty at night. They were going to be used
basically seven months of the year, and I believe I presented
some pictures to you of how the distance from some of my
neighbors, these lights affect them-- and I don't have much else
to say about it except that we'll do, have screening going in.
That will go before the Planning Board. I don't know how much
that screening will affect the --It will affect the road, but it
won't affect the school which is basically the neighbor that
sees most of this light.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is the gentleman to the rear?
DR. LIZEWSKI: Down on one side, down to the east of
me. West of me is the school.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
DR. LIZEWSKI: The school is closed.
THE CHAIRMAN: What about Fogarty?
DR. LIZEWSKI: Fogarty has no complaints at all. He
knows about it.
THE CHAIRMAN: It has been the nature of this Board
also to occasionally --We are not trying to usurp the authority
of the Planning Board, but we have in the past also in decisions
of this nature, and, of course, this is unique because it is
really the first of this nature to come to the Town --I am not
saying in reference to the volleyball, I am talking about the
complex itself-- some minor screening.
ZBA Hearings 25 April 22, 1993
DR. LIZEWSKI: We have it in the plans~ You are
welcome to add to it, or the Planning Board I am sure will talk
about the screening as you come to the driveway. That was the
original screening plan. And there will be some changes. The
only thing I worry about the screening is that is fairly close
to the corner, and I would not like to see enough screening that
people would not be able to see to the left of the side of them
when they pull out of that driveway--
THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
DR. LIZEWSKI: --because there is plenty of cars and I
would like it back a little bit. I have the berms back farther
enough anyway.
THE CHAIRMAN: I was primarily talking about screening
in the rear of the volleyball court° When I say "rear" as I
stand in front to the lefthand side, you know.
DR. LIZEWSKI: On Dunn side, yes. The easterly side,
along my property line, okay.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, okay. Thank you, sir. We will
now leave this open to the audience. I believe Mr. Jacobs, you
had asked us to recess this. How are you tonight, sir?
WILLIAM JACOBS: Well, I wrote a little something down
to add to this application. We, William and Alberta Jacobs,
would like to make a statement to become part of the minutes in
this hearing for the development of Depot Enterprises. As
long-time residents at 550 Depot Lane in Cutchogue, we have seen
ZBA Hearings 26 April 22, 1993
MR. JACOBS: many changes with the addition of a business to our
residential area. We don't object to having a business in the
midst of our formerly peaceful neighborhood. We also don't
object to the plan to install lights at the outdoor volleyball
court, but we do believe that limits should be put on the use of
the court. The lights and the noise associated with this court
are disturbing to neighborhood residents, particularly if the
court is used late into the night and all week long. Therefore,
we respectfully request that the Zoning Board take into
consideration our request for a reasonable curfew, something
like nine o'clock for the volleyball court at the Health and
Fitness Club. Thank you for hearing this request. I would like
to add that to the file.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak regarding this hearing? Mr. Flynn?
F.Mo FLYNN: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: We never restricted you on time,
Mr. Flynn--
MR. FLYNN (interposing): This is not a lengthy one.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
MR. FLYNN: As you probably know, I am a rather direct
man. Perhaps I should identify myself for the record. I am a
resident of Southold. I think I am a rather direct man, and I
would like to reduce this application and its implications
ZBA Hearings 27 April 22, 1993
to as simple terms as possible. As I will attempt to clarify
this
MR. FLYNN: thing in my mind, I identify it --I think properly--
as Dr. Lizewski's health club in Cutchogue and questions in the
short statement I make may be rhetorical and you will correct me
I am sure if I am wrong. But as I understand it, this is an
application for a variance to install volleyball courts on the
property~ and there may be a question as raised by the Building
Inspector as to whether a special exception is required to the
lighting. Now I believe this variance is intended to be that
for an accessory use and this application --my recollection and
my review of the records is-- was denied by the Building
Department on January 10, 1993. And the reasons cited were that
the volleyball courts must be ".~.in the rear yard and exterior
lighting requires special exception .... "
Now, consideration of these factors, in my opinion and
I think according to the ordinance, requires a scaled plot plan
with the signature of the person responsible and/or a survey by
a licensed surveyor or professional engineer° I haven't
encountered that, and I don't know whether such a plan exists,
but I hardly see how a variance can be granted without a
thorough study of such a plan.
Now, the other question in my mind is a variance for
an accessory use, the question is the legality of granting a
ZBA Hearings 28 April 22, 1993
varianc~ for an accessory use where the main improvement on the
property does not have a C.O. Notation on the record indicates
that the temporary CoO. expired in 1987. Now these courts and
MR. FLYNN: lighting exist and have existed for some time. That
brings up the question: If these improvements were built
without a building permit, and without apparent clearance by the
Planning Board, are they not illegal? And were they not erected
and used in violation of the Town Code? Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Would you like me to answer that?
MR. FLYNN: Yes, if--
THE CHAIRMAN (continuing): First of all, I should
point out to you that Dr. Lizewski was kind enough to come in
with a plan today.
MR. FLYNN: I looked at the record yesterday, and it
was not there at that time.
THE CHAIRMAN: Secondly, this same question was posed
to me by a taxpayer in the Town of $outhold on Sunday evening,
and they called me at my home; and I am not answering for Dr.
Lizewski, I am not answering for anybody but the nature of the
situation is as such: When an application --I said the same
thing, I say the same thing to everybody-- I say the same thing
to the newspapers, I say the same thing to everybody. There is
no difference in my conversation. When an application comes
before the Zoning Board of Appeals, whatever exists in reference
to an inadequacy in the Zoning Ordinance, all right, by the
ZBA Hearin§s 29 April 22, 1993
Building Department, all right, that is held in abeyance until a
decision is rendered by this Board, okay. So what actually is
outstanding, I don't know. Okay. I don't know, I don't think
CHAIRMAN: Dr. Lizewski was violated, okay. I very simply think
that what is before us is Just what you mentioned based upon, I
think you said January 10th-- I believe it was February 10th in
the notice of disapproval. It says, and I am reading this--
Victor Lessard had signed this notice of disapproval:
"...Article III Section 100-33 Accessory buildings (uses).
Volleyball courts and children's play area are required to be in
the rear yard. Addition of outdoor lighting requires an
approved Special Exception. Action required by the Zoning Board
of Appeals. These additions will also require amending the site
plan as indicated in Article I, Section 100-250..o," which is
the area that pertains to the Planning Board.
Now, at this time I have no idea if Dr. Lizewski has a plan
before the Planning Board in toto if he has completed the entire
site plan~ Certainly it has been the nature of the application
of most applicants that they come before us first to deal with
the requirements that would be required under the Code so to
speak; and then they would be referred back to the Planning
Board, all right. I am sure that that is what the
normal process is going to be in this particular case, and that
is all I can tell you, Mro Flynn.
ZBA Hearings 30 April 22, 1993
MR. FLYNN: I would like to respond momentarily. You
talk about the normal process. I believe the normal process is
to acquire a building permit prior to construction, and that if
MR. FLYNN: construction is conducted without a building permit,
it is a violation of the Town Code,'pure and simple.
THE CHAIRMAN: I have no idea if there was a building
permit or not.
MR. FLYNN: You have a denial. Therefore, it can't
be.
THE CHAIRMAN: Not necessarily.
MR. FLYNN: There was a building permit for the pool
and two bathrooms. That I encountered. But I also encountered
a notation to the effect that there was no C.O. on the main
structure which is another issue I raise as to having possible
pertinence here. And then an application for an accessory use
for a building that has no C.O.
THE CHAIRMAN: I can't answer that question. My
particular problem i~ here, when I go down and look at this
site, I am looking at sand, and I am looking at two stanchions
for a volleyball net. I have no knowledge that this lighting
was ever used. I have no knowledge that this court was ever
used, all right, at this particular time.~ In this particular
case, I don't know.
MR. FLYNN: I think it is on the record from the
neighbors that it has been used.
ZBA Hearings 31 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: It may have been; I don't know.
MR. FLYNN: So the question I raise, very bluntly
stated: Is the construction of this improvement without a
building permit a violation of the Town Code of Southold? And
if you will not rule on it, who will?
THE CHAIRMAN: The code enforcement officer, Building
Inspector.
MR. FLYNN: Haven't we eliminated the code enforcement
officer?
THE CHAIRMAN: We have eliminated a code enforcement
officer, but a Building Inspector is still a code enforcement
officer.
MR. FLYNN: And he says that there is no building
permit on this property.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay° Unfortunately, approximately
two-thirds of the applications that come before us are normally
constructed. In this particular case, I'll be perfectly honest
with you, I'd like to see it there because I know what we are
dealing with at this particular time. I would not be able to
make a decision or a definitive judgment on lighting without
seeing the lighting there. I came down and looked at the
lighting at approximately seven o'clock at night before the time
change. Dr. Lizewski had the electricians there. They were
kind enough to turn the lighting on, okay; and I did not find
the lighting offensive.
ZBA Hearings 32 April 22, 1993
MR. FLYNN: .Don't misunderstand me. I am not arguing
against the nature of the use° That is up to the people who are
affected by it, to argue that point~ What I am arguing is that
in this Town all these irregular things go on, where the normal
procedure is violated. To erect the structure you are supposed
to have a building per~it; and if you don't have a building
permit, you are not supposed to erect the structure; and if you
do erect the structure, in my opinion, that is a violation of
the Town Code. That is as simply as I can state. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Dr. Lizewski?
DR. LIZEWSKI: I talked to the Building Inspectors and
took down my nets; and they said as long as there was no net up
on this volleyball court, it is not considered a structure. The
other thing is, with the C.O.s, as everybodY knows, I have been
before the State Review Board for quite some time; and it is in
the State Review Board's hands and not the Town's hands to
finally decide on the construction and C.O. of my building.
Unfortunately, the State has cut back the funds drastically, but
it has been there now for quite a while and they have to come
and make a decision, and then the Town will finalize the entire
thing. But since I spent five years going through tremendous
construction changes that were given to me by the review board,
the same type of review board that anybody has to go through if
the Town deems you have made a construction mistake or have not
done something, just like your Appeals Board here. There is a
ZBA Hearings 33 April 22, 1993
State Appeals Board in Hauppauge, which I went to, which they
have to now finalize on and I have had an engineer sign off that
DR. LIZEWSKI: everything was done that the State wanted me to
do, and it has been sitting in their hands; the Building
Department knows of it; and this Town we are fortunate they have
a Building Department that works with the people and not against
the people, as long as they are kept appraised of the
situation. It is not run in a gestapo-like fashion where people
are dragged in and kept in tow, so to speak, if you work with
the Building Department and they know what is going on, and
everybody knows what is going on; they know that the letters are
in there, and they have affirmation of it. They wait. They are
not going to take somebody in and put them out of business or
close them down when they know that you are making an effort to
comply with the law. That is the way the Town has always been
run, and I thank God for that.
THE CHAIRMAN: May I just ask you two questions? When
I was to the site, is there more than what exists there right
now --I am referring to the rear because you happen to have two
front yards, okay. The rear of the actual complex--
DR. LIZEWSKI: Nothing more than is on there--
THE CHAIRMAN (continuing): I see sand, I see two
stanchions that would support a volleyball court, and I see four ~-~--~
stanchions --
ZBA Hearings 34 April 22, 1993
DR. LIZEWSKI: Four stanchions for the volleyball
court, not two.
THE CHAIRMAN: Excuse me, I meant four. And four
stanchions for the lights -- that's all I see-- and some fencing
for a playground area.
DR. LIZEWSKI: That's right. That's all there is.
Hasn't changed. I will tell you that I will do my best to not
have those lights on. It certainly will not be played on every
night of the week. I have to tell you I would be happy if I got
three nights out of it. It will just be an~extension of my
winter season of volleyball inside the building, outside of the
building~ which is now only three nights a week as it is. So I
don't think out of seven nights, maybe three nights will have
actual use.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. Flynn?
MR. FLYNN: Dr. Lizewski maintains there is no
structure on the property in this area, and you gentlemen know
the Town Code better than I; in Section 113 it defines building
structure as anything constructed of any materials unless
entirely underground so that the area above it may be used as if
no such structure were present; so I think it is splitting hairs
here to say that there is no structure present on the property.
The lights and whatever stanchions exist by the Town Code
· certainly constitute structures; and you may have gathered by
now that I am a strict constructionist, and I don't believe that
ZBA Hearings 35 April 22, 1993
the various departments in the Town should have the leeway to
interpret ordinances one way for an applicant and another way
MR. FLYNN: for another, depending upon their judgment as to his
motivation. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Just briefly, Mr. Flynn, before you
leave, by a determination of this Board, and I don't want to
belabor this topic because we would like to get to the final
hearing -- Somewhere in the mid-eighties down on Arrowhead Lane
in Peconic, an application was brought before this Board which
was subsequently denied after the hearing, by an applicant for
the construction of a tennis court. Okay. By the nature of
that application, it was determined and shall continue to be
determined by this Board that since a tennis court has an
enclosure and it is enclosed by fence, okay, it is then a
structure. A swimming pool as it exists today is enclosed by a
fence and in most cases a deck, be it raised above the swimming
pool or being a surfaced area right on the ground as in brick
put in sand or mortar or slate, et cetera. That is construed to
be a structure° Regardless of what you said concerning the
particular code as it exists, subsequent to 1989 with the new
Master Plan, we are still continuing on the aspect of the fact
that unless it is enclosed, as it stands, it is not an
enclosure, and therefore it is not necessarily a structure,
okay~ This will become a structure if this Board so desires it
to be a structure. As I sit before you and you stand before me,
ZBA Hearings 36 APril 22, 1993
it is my opinion that we are looking at four individual
stanchions for both the possibility of an erection of two nets
CHAIRMAN: for volleyball use and I will tell you that there are
four stanchions there for lighting. That I do not consider that
--my Board members may change-- I don't answer for them. I do
not consider that a structure, and it will not remain as a
structure so far as I sit here, unless I am asked to interpret
it, and it will only be interpreted as a structure if it is
enclosed by a four, six, ten, twelve, fourteen-foot fence,
whatever would be required to play, you know. Racquetball as it
is used interiorly --This is a volleyball court, okay. And that
is just my opinion as I sit before you. Just so you understand
where I am coming from.
MR. FLYNN: I do understand what you are saying, and I
hope you understand what I am saying.
THE CHAIRMAN: I do understand what you are saying.
MR. FLYNN: What I am saying is that if that is your
interpretation, it is in conflict with the plain wording of the
code. And if necessary, the Code should be changed. But as
the Code is worded, these are structures.
THE CHAIRMAN: I understand and I will discuss that
with the Code Committee. Thank you. Anyone else who would like
to speak concerning this application?
(There was no response.)
ZBA Hearings 37 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no hands, I make a motion
closing the hearing and reserving decision until later.
(Motion seconded and carried; see Clerk's minutes.)
ZBA Hearings 38 April 22, 1993
APPLICATION NO. 4156 - GARDINERS BAY ESTATES CLUB, INC.
(re~o~d owner as per Deed at Liber 7671 page 415) - filed by
~GARDI~ERS BAY ESTATES PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION.
{Reco~uened and continued from February 23,1993). (Ongioni &
Borel~$, Esqs.) This is an Appeal based upon the February 10,
1993~N~tice of Disapproval issued by the Building Inspector
requesting an Interpretation of Article III, Section 100-31C(3)
<af~t~h~ Zoning Code which provides for "...docking or mooring
cif~aCii~ties for no more than two (2) boats other .than those owned
and ~sed by the owner of the premises for his personal use."
~Appt~ant is proposing to construct new dock areas with multiple
boat ~acilities at the community beach of Gardiners Bay
Estates, Location of Property: Part of Private Road known as
Dogwoo~ Lane situated along "Spring Pond~" an estuary of Orient
Harbor~ also shown on the Map of Gardiners Bay Estates, Section
2, fiJ~e~ in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office as Map No. 275,
East ~arion, NY; County Tax Map ID Nos. 1000-37-1-part of 23
(private road), and part of 17 (underwater land).
8:26 p.~m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notic~and application for the record.)
Ai~ THE CHAIRMAN: This is a recessed hearing from two
heari~s ago, and that is in behalf of Gardiners Bay Estates. I
just ~ant to ask this nice gentleman down here if he would
like ~our attorney to speak or would you like to open it up or
whatever you would like.
ZBA Hearings 39 April 22, 1993
LAWRENCE MATZEN: Well, this is our second hearing.
My name is Lawrence Matzen, Chairman of the Marine Committee.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you want to speak, Carmella?
Appearance: Carmella Borrelli, Esq., Ongioni and
Borrelli, Attorneys for Applicant.
MS. BORRELLI: I am just going to go through it
briefly, go from where we were when we adjourned on the 23rd to
where we are now, and some things that have come up in the
interim. We adjourned because the Board asked for the
Association to consider a limit on the number of ~ocking spaces,
and then, subsequent to that, the Board made some requests for
some additional data which Mr. Matzen, who is the head of the
Marine Committee, supplied to the Board. That was a map showing
where all the docking presently is, how many are there. The
Marine Committee made a recommendation to the Board of Directors
to limit the number to seventy-seven, which the Board approved~
That 77 is the potential maximum anticipated of non-waterfront
owners, property owners, in Gardiners Bay. Since the last
hearing you have gotten some letters in opposition, one from Mr.
DiBlasi, who spoke at the original hearing.
THE CHAIRMAN~ Yes.
MS. BORRELLI (continuing): One from Mr. Sambach, Sr.,
who is the father of the gentleman who spoke in opposition
at the original hearing; and one you got which I am not sure
ZHA Hearings 40 April 22, 1993
what it is --it looks like Hair or Hagen. I know it is from
Virginia --Springfield, Virginia.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MS. BORRELLI: The objections raised in all of those
letters seemed to be centered around the same matters that were
brought up at the last hearin§ --the location, the potential
danger to navigation. All of those objections were answered by
Mr. Matzen in letters that he wrote to the Army Corps of
Engineers because those same objections were raised in the Army
Corps of Engineers, and I had sent copies of Mr. Matzen's
letters with my letter to you of the 16th, which covers all of
those; and, as you know, the Army Corps approved this, and so
has the DEC approved it. The objections of Mr. Sambach, Sr.,
were responded to by the Association's president Mr. Birdie,
merely calling to your attention despite the fact that Mr.
Sambach, Sr., told you that he was Vice President of the Real
Estate Committee, et cetera, et cetera, he was writing to you as
an individual because the Association had voted on this, and the
majority had approved this application, so that you should take
these objections to be individuals and not the consensus of the
Association because the Association has voted and approved it.
All I would like to do is just to reiterate what we
are asking the Board here: We would like you to realize that
all of the objections that have been put in are objections that
are not pointed to the question that is before this Board. The
ZBA Hearings 41 April 22, 1993
question that is before this Board is an interpretation of the
Code. It has nothing to do with the location where a dock is
put, when a dock is put --It has to do merely with
interpretation of the Code as to who can put boats at that
dock. We ask you to view this question from Gardiners Bay as a
unique situation, and not to view it as precedence-setting for
other homeowners' associations, simply because Gardiners Bay is
unique in that it owns the land under Spring Pond, which is not
so with other homeowners' association. Therefore, other
homeowners' associations would be much more within the control
of the Board of Trustees and the Board of Trustees could have a
lot more to say about what goes on. So, therefore, a decision
here in interpretation I would like you to view not as
precedent-setting for those. The Board has voted and set a
limit to the number of boats, and I would like you to realize
that in being a member of the homeowners' association when you
are non-waterfront property owner, part of the value of your
land when it is conveyed to you is the ability to have docking
space within the association. Once you do not allow them to
dock there because you do not consider them owners, that the
boat has to be owned by the Association, you have decreased the
value of their land when they have to, at some point in the
future, or if they transfer it to another property owner, they
have lost value. It has been diminished.
ZBA Hearings 42 April 22, 1993
I would like to borrow from Dr. Lizewski in that we
have tried to work with this Board, especially in the vote for
the limit --We are willing to work for that Board in the
future. We assume that the Board would be willing to work with
us, and we are making every effort and will continue to do so.
I don't have anything else to say unless you have some
specific questions. After that though, Mr. Birdie, who is the
president of the Association, would like to read a letter to you
and then give you letters that have been signed by other
Association members.
THE CHAIRMAN: The max is 77. What do we have
existing now, without the--
MS. BORRELLI (continuing): Sixty-four, but that is
thirty, thirty-one--
MR. MATZEN: Thirty-eight off land (not fully audible
from non-microphone area) and 31 waterfront premises.
MS. BORRELLI: But the waterfront members are people
who would be entitled to have those docks there. They are not
on Association property.
THE CHAIRMAN: In the interim we did of course have an
application for a deck down by the island, I forget the island
name you call it down there--
VOICE IN AUDIENCE: (Name inaudible without
microphone).
ZBA Hearings 43 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN (continuing): Yes. So I did take the
liberty of walking down and viewing the application after it was
completed, and did take a look at the island and the --not the
mooring but the docking facilities at that particular point,
which gave me a better idea of the whole --I can't use the word
"operation" because it's-- the whole docking facilities.
MS. BORRELLI: The Marine Committee here is very
diligent about taking care of the docking, about maintaining the
waterways, about doing everything so that everybody gets the
best for what they want without interfering with navigation,
without posing any dangers --I mean if you have read the letters
I sent you that Mr. Matzen wrote, you can see that is the Chair
of the Marine Committee; you can see that his credentials in
this area are fairly extensive and the people are concerned
about their community because if things got out of hand, their
property values get diminished, so they certainly don't want
that to happen. They are just looking to fulfill what is what
people who bought expect, and that is to be able to dock a boat
at property-association lando
THE CHAIRMAN: All right, thank you.
MS. BORRELLI: Mr. Birdie?
THE CHAIRMAN: Hello, Mr. Birdie, how are you?
MR. BIRDIE: I am Edward Birdie, 380 Parsons
Boulevard, property owner, in the Estates.
ZBA Hearings 44 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: You also substantiate that everything
you are about to say is the truth to the best of your ability?
MR. BIRDIE: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
MR. BIRDIE: I am also president of the Association,
and I have here the letters signed by more than sixty members of
the Association supporting the application, and this letter was
prepared by our resident, and he is also attorney and on our
Board as a Board member, and is also our legal counsel. If the
Board so desires, I will read the letter.
THE CHAIRMAN: It is entirely up to yourself, sir.
MR. BIRDIE: It is addressed to the Town of Southold
Zoning Board of Appeals and reads:
"I am a property owner in Gardiners Bay Estates in
East Marion and a member of the Gardiners Bay Estates Homeowners
Association (GBEHOA)o I am writing this letter in support of
the application of the GBEHOA for a determination of the boat
code for R40 zoning. I am writing this letter both as a member
of the homeowners association and as a property owner with an
interest in association property including the lands underlying
Spring Pond.
"By my ownership of property in Gardiners Bay Estates
and my membership in the Gard£ner$ Bay Estates Homeowners
Association I am entitled to place a boat on an available
mooring or dock in Spring Pond. The land under Spring
ZBA Hearings 45 April 22,.1993
Pond is owned by the GBEHOA and its use is managed by GBEHOA for
the benefit of all members of the association.
"I support the application for additional dock slips
in Spring Pond because the community of Gardiners Bay Estates
will benefit significantly by construction of the dock and
because its construction will not cause any harm to the health,
safety or welfare of the community or of any adjacent or nearby
neighbors. Upland boat owner members Of GBEHOA are not now all
accommodated by the available slips and moorings in Spring Pond
and the construction of a new dock will provide access to more
association members. Whether or not I have a boat in Spring
Pond or am on a waiting list to place a boat in Spring Pond, the
availability of slips and moorings is an incident of property
ownership and GBEHOA membership in our community and it adds
substantial value to my property. I believe that if the present
application is not granted, the value of my property will be
decreased because the availability of spaces for boats in Spring
Pond will not be allowed to be set by the GBEHOA at a level
which is presently necessary.
"The GBEHOA acts for me and for all members of the
association in regulating the use of Spring Pond for boating and
I most respectfully request that its application be granted in
all respects to permit it to continue to serve its intended
purpose in this regard.
"Very truly yours," This is signed by the members.
ZBA Hearings 46 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Nice to meet you, sir.
(Whereupon above referred to letters were received on
behalf of applicant and made part of the record --exhibit
numbers, if any to be designated by Clerk or applicant's
counsel.)
MEMBER VILLA: One part I didn't catch. How many
letters did you say were signed?
MR. BIRDIE: Sixty, sixty-one.
MEMBER VILLA: Sixty-one, all right, thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: There is no doubt in our minds that
~ · this organization that you all represent have a keen interest in
whatever way the people go. This is a democracy and the way we
have to deal with it, right? Anything further? Yes, Mr.
Birdie?
MR. BIRDIE: One thing further --we have a number Of
members of the Homeowners Association here. I think they are
all on this side (indicating). They can all stand up (laughter).
THE CHAIRMAN: No, it is not necessary. Is there
anybody else who would like to speak? Yes, sir. Just state
your name for the record.
Do you substantiate that everything you are about to
say is the truth, to the best of your ability?
PROPOSED SPEAKER (MR. FANAZZI): Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: And your name?
ZBA Hearings 47 April 22, 1993
ANDREW J. FANAZZI, JR.: I will read my letter. I
left copies this afternoon for all Board members.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MR. FANAZZI:~ Dear Sir:
"I am writing to you in direct response to Warren A.
Sambach, Sr. 's letter dated April 6, 1993.
"I also am a member of the Board of Directors of the
Gardiners Bay Estates Home Owners Association, Inc. I have
never made a presentation to any Board of any kind previously.
It is my honest opinion Warren A. Sambach, Sr. ~ should have
abstained from any involvement (professional or otherwise) in
this issue due to a conflict of interest.
"The Army Corps of Engineers and the Dept. of
Environmental Conservation found no problem with the
installation of docks in Spring Pond as proposed in Application
#4156.
"To my knowledge, no one has approached the Chairman
of the Marine Committee for a list of those person(s) interested
in requesting dock space. I earnestly feel every homeowner in
Gardiners Bay Estates is entitled to a place to moor or dock a
boat. I am referring to present and/or future homeowners. It
is my understanding this would mean spaces for 65 upland
homeowners. There are several rights of way in Gardiners Bay
Estates. One leads to Fox Island which has dockage for four (4)
ZBA Hearings 48 April 22, 1993
boats and a beaching area for several dinghies. Two other
rights of way provide access to the beach area.
"As to the issue of congestion, parking or any other
alleged problems, if the use of a right of way by neighbors is
thought of as an annoyance by Warren Sambach, Jr., and Richard
DiBlasi, it would seem this is in direct conflict with the
reason(s) for which these rights of way were originally
established; namely, to provide access to Spring Pond and the
beach area to all members of Gardiners Bay Estates.
In addition, Warren Sambach, Jr. and Richard DiBlasi were fully
aware of the existence of these rights of way prior to their
purchase of their respective properties.
"I firmly believe the value of my upland property
would be diminished if I had to inform a potential purchaser
that mooring and/or docking space in Spring Pond would not be
available to them until some unknown future date. It is
increasingly apparent Warren Sambach, Jr. and Richard DiBlasi
are using and have used every conceivable means to object to
this application as a ruse to obscure their own selfish
interest. It seems a clear case of "I've got mine and the rest
of the community be damned."
"At this time, I respectfully request the Zoning Board
of Appeals rule in favor of the Gardiners Bay Estates Home
Owners Association, Inc.'s application.
"Very truly yours, signed Andrew J. Fanazzi, Jr."
ZBA Hearings 49 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I have it right here, Mr.
Fanazzi. Is there anybody else who would like to speak? Either
for or against. Yes, Mr. Sambach?
WARREN SAMBACH, JR.: My name is Warren Sambach, Jr.~
and I guess I am the bad guy. But I am only here tonight to
reiterate what I. previously stated to this Board -- that you
have been requested to interpret something. You have been
request to interpret Section 100-31C-3A. You have not been
requested to hear a Use Variance. You have been asked by
Gardiners Bay Home Owners Associations to interpret something.
You have been asked to interpret something other, something
different from what the Building Inspector has said in his
Notice of Disapproval to the Association's application dated
February 10, 1993. Here he said that the property zoned and
owned by a subdivision association, action required by the
Zoning Board of Appeals to address the Code use not allowed in
an Agricultural zoning, i.e., more than two boats not owned by
the property owners. The ordinance reads: There shall be
docking or mooring facilities for no more than two boats other
than those owned and used by the property owner for his personal
use.
Previously we have heard who the owner is. Gardiners
Bay Home Owners Association, Incorporated, is a single entity.
Therefore, the next question to be asked is: How many boats
does this single entity own? Having that number,
ZBA Hearings 50 April 22, 1993
you can add two to that number and ascertain how many boats are
allowed on this piece of property. That number is three.
Presently there are four docked. There are two boats docked on
my personal pier and float on Association property with their
permission. That is my boat and my father's boat. There are
two additional boats docked on Richard DiBlasi's personal pier
and float on Association property --his boat and George Clerk's
boat. That is four boats docked. All four of us are members of
the Association. In addition to that, there are two moorings
associated with this piece of property in front of and that are
serviced by this piece of property. Those two moorings are
Reverend Henry Ressmeyer's and the other mooring is where the
Gardiners Bay Home Owners Association, Incorporated, keeps their
boat.
What the applicant is asking you tonight is to
interpret a section of the Code. There are four boats docked,
there are two moored, and they want to put four more. That is a
total of ten. That would be a 66 per cent differential over and
above what is allowed by the words of the Code. If you count
the five upland boats in the pictures I submitted to you last
night or last time We were here, that total then would be
fifteen boats on this piece of property. That would be an 80
per cent differential over and above what is allowed by the
ordinance. What was the legislative intent of the ordinance?
Was the legislative intent of the ordinance to allow Homeowners
ZBA Hearings 51 April 22, 1993
Association Incorporated to develop marinas or mini-marinas in
residential areas? The Association has verbally given a
self-imposed limit of 77 boats. That is 77 boats of the
Association. Presently they have 32 boats. So that is an
additional forty-five boats that they want on Association waters
wherever they are, which is a lot of boats.
Was the intent of the ordinance to allow Homeowners
Association Incorporated to dock, moor or congregate as many
boats as there are members in the Association? Even though
perhaps not everyone in the Association wants a boat or has a
boat. Was it the intent of the ordinance to allow Homeowners'
Associations to be entitled to an unlimited number of boats?
Was it the intent of the ordinance to allow more boats on a
piece of property because it is bigger? Or was the intent of
the ordinance to allow some sort of orderly development, some
sort of prudent measure? Some sort of wise but not burdensome
planning so as to protect the health, safety and welfare of the
public? The applicant not being satisfied with what has been
said by the Building Inspector, has asked this Board to
interpret something different, something more than what the Code
says.
I believe the intent of the Code from this Board's
point of view is to look at what the Code says. What do the
words say and apply to? I don't think this Board in this case
can interpret something more that would allow an
ZBA Hearings 52 April 22, 1993
over-intensification of an accessory use. Once again the
Conservation Advisory Council has recommended four boats for
this piece of property. We have presently four docked. There
are two moored --with four more proposed, is ten. The five
upland boats would be a total of fifteen for this piece of
property. That interpretation would be a gross
over-intensification of an accessory use.
Let's take a hypothetical situation. Let's suppose no
boats existed on this piece of property --none docked, none
moored, none accommodated. The application then by the
Association would probably be for six boats, the four new ones
plus the two that are there. Those six boats would still be a
50 per cent differential, twice as many boats as what the
ordinance allows. The applicant is asking you to interpret a
section of the Code. They are asking you to read more into the
Code than is there, so that even this hypothetical situation,
they are asking for twice as many boats.
In conclusion, a common-sense approach to this
particular right-of-way of the Association is to look at the
Code wording. Apply what the Code says. That is what
interpretation is. The intent of the Code is not to be turned
inside-out and upside-down by letters from people who support
the application or by legal fiction that distorts the plain
meaning and language of a very clear statement in regard to who
the owner is and how many boats that owner can have. Thank you.
ZBA Hearings 53 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak --Mr. Flynn, do you want to go first?
MR. MATZEN: Just a couple--
THE CHAIRMAN: Can you just reflect one second?
MR. FLYNN: Sure.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
MR. MATZEN: What he said about fifteen boats, he went
over this last meeting. The picture shows one of the boats he
is talking about is an ornamental boat on the lawn, on DiBlasi's
lawn. There is one dinghy I have down there on the beach. It
is not in the water. His own rowboat was up there for a good
many years, and sometimes in the water. He is talking about two
docks with four boats on there. Twenty years ago we had four
docks with eight boats on there. In disuSe, two disappeared.
They kept theirs. No different than we had twenty years ago.
It wasn't crowded then. It is not crowded now; and the same two
moorings were out in front just where they are now. It has
never changed. So we are not asking for more than was there 20
years ago. He comes up with a lot of hype and stuff with those
pictures. You saw the pictures the last time, and I questioned
that before; he comes up with the same thing again. I don't
think he has a leg to stand on there really, the way he is
talking. Another thing is (coughing renders three words totally
inaudible) turned down by the Building Department from the
start. Only when the Board of Trustees asked for the
ZBA Hearings 54 April 22, 1993
interpretation were we able to have the Building Department turn
it down so we could go for the interpretation. We didn't ask
for the interpretation from the start. It was the Board of
Trustees that started all this. He is saying we did. We did
not. I fought for a whole year with the Town, and all the other
heads of departments, trying not to go to the Board of Appeals.
You know what. Linda is not here. I am sorry about her mother
dying, but Linda knows that from the start because I was talking
to her over a year ago on this, and that's all I have to say.
THE CHAIRMAN: I just wanted to mention since the
person who is doing the minutes is not the same person who is
here --okay. This is a very dear lady from the Assessor's
office that is assisting us tonight.
MR. MATZEN: I am sorry.
THE CHAIRMAN: We have to mention that the person who
just made that statement is Mr. Matzen so we can tape it with
the person who is doing it, because we didn't mention name.
Okay. Mr. Flynn? Thank you, sir.
MR. FLYNN: F. M. Flynn, a resident a Southold. I must
say that my presentation will be somewhat even more disorderly
than usual because I don't want to repeat what was said by the
previous speaker. But ordinarily I wouldn't involve myself in
internecine conflict, which is apparently what is taking place
here. But on contrative (sic) statements made, the implications
Townwide are much too important not to be
ZBA Hearings 55 April 22, 1993
discussed in some detail. For one thing, the ownership of
underwater land in Southold is not all that unusual. As a
matter of fact, as the Board probably knows, I own some myself.
Also, that underwater land, although privately owned, is subject
to the Trustees interpretation and the issuance of Trustee
permits, as I have found out. Now, this hearing is, as was
said, for an interpretation of the term Code, but it was stated
that it would not be precedent-setting. The application to
expand dockage in Spring Pond is of potentially major
dimensions, as was recited, from some low level of occupancy now
up to a potential of 77 boats.
Now the Building Inspector disapproved the application
based upon, as was recited, Section 100-31C(3). Now I am not
going to read that, but I would like to emphasize a portion
where it says other than those owned and used by the owners of
the premises --the owner, in the singular-- for his personal
use. As was stated, it was also disapproved by the CAC~ who
recommended a maximum capacity of four boats and on single dock,
and opposed marina development by property owners association.
Now, the applicant concedes that Section 100-31C(3) applies to a
single owner. This whole thing revolves pretty much around
whether this is a single owner or not, whether the Gardiners Bay
Estates Incorporated is a single owner. Not to belabor the
point, but "Incorporated" comes from the Latin word "corpus~"
which means one body. It doesn't mean a number of bodies. It
ZBA Hearings 56 April 22, 1993
means one body. Now, the applicant correctly said that the
marina definition in 32-41 "Boats, Docks and Wharves" does not
apply in this situation. That is absolutely true because that
definition applies to any --I won't read the whole thing; but it
does say any dock, pier or other facility operated for profit,
so that is not a pertinent definition of a marina.
The proposed use actually meets the definition in
Section 113 of the Marina or Boat Basin, which says any premises
containing one or more piers, wharves, docks, moorings,
bulkheads, buildings, slips, basins or land under water,
designed, used or intended to be used or intended to be used
primarily for the docking or mooring of boats for or without
compensation; so this apparently would meet that definition of a
marina. Now this marina, in fact boat marina operations are
only permitted in M1 and M2 zoning. Now there is question on
anybody's part that the ownership of the underwater land
involved in question is vested in the Gardiners Bay Homeowners
Association Inc. Now the applicants advance several arguments
that the corporation is not a single owner, including the
definition of homeowners or homes association in Section
100-13. That states: A community association including a
condominium association which is organized in a residential
development in which individual owners have a shared interest
and responsibility. Now I underline "shared interest" because
that is definitive of a corporation. As I said, it should be
ZBA Hearings 57 April 22, 1993
noted that Section 100-31-3C refers to the owner and the
singular use for his personal use. As I mentioned, the
definition of homeowners association refers to a shared use.
Now while the applicant concedes that the property is owned by
the corporation --when I say "the property,"I mean the
underwater land. The counsel states that no definition of a
corporation is incorporated in New York State law. Well, maybe
that is not necessary to define a corporation; but inherent in
the word, as I stated, is that it is a single living body. .I
find it hard to believe that, and I accessed in the short time
available to me, to a law library and in view of the thousands
of cases involving corporate litigation, that no such definition
exists. In any event, the SEC has certainly defined
corporations, if only by delineating their objectives, powers,
limitations and responsibilities. Now, one definition of a
corporation that I found in a commonly used dictionary is (1) a
body of persons granted a charter, legally recognizing them as a
separate entity having its own rights, privileges and liability
distinct from that of its members. So a corporation owning this
property, this underwater land, is distinct from that ownership
vested in the members of the corporation individually; and then
under (3), it says "any group of people combined into or acting
as, emphasized, one body."
ZBA Hearings 58 April 22, 1993
Webster's Collegiate Dictionary defines corporate as
combined into one body united, or formed into a body by legal --
or enact (pausing).
THE CHAIRMAN: We are going to stop you in about two
minutes here. Do you want to stop now?
MR. FLYNN: Okay.
THE CHAIRMAN: We just have (end of tape, sentence
incomplete).
(Resuming on the record with a new tape.)
MR. FLYNN: I am trying to skip some of this.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
MR. FLYNN: To me, the claim that stockholders in a
corporation can exercise individual rights or ownership of'
ownership in corporate property can only be defined as bizarre.
Carried to the extreme, a corporation such as General Motors
could buy some underwater land in Southold and by the
application of this principle, all of its stockholders could use
it for moorings, within its physical capacity. The ownership of
underwater land, as I said, is not unusual. Were I as an owner
to follow the theory advocated by the applicants, I could
incorporate my ownership and all the stockholders therein would
have mooring rights. The implication of interpretation favoring
the applicant would have disastrous effects on Southold's bays,
estuaries and creeks. What is proposed here, in my opinion,
smacks more of separating this underwater land and combining it
ZBA Hearings 59 April 22, 1993
with the upland --would be something similar to a condominium
type of operation. So in my opinion, is to achieve the desired
results for this association, they would have to apply for a
change of zoning; and, in effect, Town Hall constitutes the
right church but appearing before the ZBA they are in the wrong
pew.
Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Flynn.
We would dearly like to take a short break, but I just want to
know, Carmella, how long you think you are going to be.
MS. BORRELLI: I have about three comments I would
like to make.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you. Go.
MS. BORRELLI: One, we are not just talking about the
Association owning the land under the water; they own the land
to which the dock will be attached. That is Number One.
Number Two: I don't think that the section of the
code implied that the number of boats that an owner can put
there is limited. It is only non-owner boats that are limited
to two. An owner can have unlimited number of boats. I believe
that is what the Code said; and in terms of the interpretation
of the words in that section that --owned and used by the
owner-- I picked up, they certainly didn't mean the singular
when they said "the owner". They could have meant more than one
owner owning it because later on.it says "for his personal use";
ZBA Hearings 60 April 22, 1993
and, I mean, does that mean that no women could have a boat
there?
THE CHAIRMAN: Certainly not, definitely not. I don't
even want to discuss that part.
(Interrupted by laughter in audience.)
MS. BORRELLI (continuing): I would like to call your
attention to a section of the Code which is in my letter and
which was in the original brief in terms of the definition of an
owner. An owner includes the duly authorized agent, attorney,
purchaser, devisee, fiduciary or any other person having a
vested or contingent interest in the property; and it is our
premise that the Association owns it; the members of the
Association, because they are members of the Association, have a
contingent interest in that property and therefore qualify under
the word "owner."
THE CHAIRMAN: Just one question. How does a person
not become a member of the Association? By not paying their
dues?
MS. BORRELLI: Right.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you. Any other comment?
MRS.B. DORIS MATZEN: They must also have property
within Gardiners Bay Estates, They have to be a property owner~
THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, yes, certainly. But I mean they
would be stripped of their actual use of the'common areas
ZBA Hearings 61 April 22, 1993
--which include the roads, I guess, also, to a certain degree--
if you did not pay the Association dues?
UNIDENTIFIED MAIL VOICE (Mro Matzen?): If you don't
pay dues, you can still use the ramp.
THE CHAIRMAN: Because you can't deny them access to
their own property. It would just be the other amenities that
exist within that subdivision. Okay. Mr. Flynn, the same
situation. How long do you think you will be?
MR. FLYNN: Less than two minutes, approximately two
sentences.
THE CHAIRMAN: All right.
MR. FLYNN: A point was made about the ownership of
the surrounding upland, Were it not for that ownership, this
whole question would be entirely moot then. You cannot develop
underwater land unless you have the ownership of abutting
upland, and there are definitions involving prescribed parking
for the boats to be boarded at dock, et cetera, and I am not
sure of this, but I don't think there is any such facility
provided for it. And, again, the definition of owner was cited
here; and, again, it was in the singular. Now I don't believe
that the writers of the Code intended a plural definition when
they wrote it in the singular; and up until quite recently,
before the emergence of women's lib, his was more or less a
generic word and was probably so utilized at the time the Code
was written. Thank you.
ZBA Hearings 62 April 22, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: I want to state quite honestly that we
have had innumerable amounts of associations before us but never
have we had such a professional group. I really commend you all
for coming before us. You did exactly as we asked. You used
your spokesperson who, in most cases, was your attorney, your
Marine Chairman, and so on and so forth. We really appreciate
that. It gives us a greater understanding of what we are
looking at here at this application; and bearing that in mind, I
will make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision
until later.
(Seconded and carried; see Clerk's Minutes.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Safe home everybody, please, and thank
you again.