HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-03/18/1993 HEARINGPUBLIC HEARING
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MARCH 18, 1993
(7:30 p.m.
Hearing)
Pre s e n t :
HON. GERARD F. GOEHRINGER,
Chairman
JAMES DINIZIO, JR.
SERGE DOYEN
ROBERT A. VILLA
RICHARD C. WILTON
LINDA KOWALSKI, Secretary-Clerk to Board
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
~ SOUTt4OLD TOWN
~T~wn Cler~ %O~ 9~ Sou~,
ZBA Hearings 2 March 18, 1993
APPLICATION NO. 4158 of STEVE DONADIC
for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article IIIA, Section
100-30A.3 for permission to construct dining room addition with
a reduced side yard setback at less than the required ten (10)
feet. Location of Property: 200 Willow Point Road, at
Arshamomaque, Southold, NY; Willow Point Subdivision Lot No.
28; County Tax Map Parcel ID No. 1000-56-5-32.
7:40 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notice and application for the record.
THE CHAIR~4AN: I have (not on tape) from Young & Young
dated October 26, 1978, which does not include all of the
improvements which exist on this piece of property. However,
there .is a sketch in the file concerning the elongation of the
greenhouse into a dining room area. On a separate map, it
indicates approximately a 14 by 21-foot addition to the
northeasterly side of the house, leaving a Side yard of 7 feet.
Is there somebody who would like to be heard on behalf of this
application? Is there something you would like to say for the
record? Could I ask you to stand up and use the mike? Tell us
who you are, okay?
MR. DONADIC:
more eloquent.
THE CHAIRMAN:
Donadic?
MRo DONADIC:
the place where
Inaudible phrase) pictures which are
Thank you. You, I take it are Mr.
This
(indicating).
is actually our house and that is
ZBA Hearings 3 March 18, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: Great pictures. Thank you~ Is there
any particular reason you want to encroach into the side yard,
rather than moving back to the rear of the house?
MR. DONADIC: Well, we already have the greenhouse on
the side there; and it is kind of falling apart, the glass got
to be changed-- since we take this down (indicating) we think to
increase with a different structure (phrase inaudible) so we
went to the Building Inspector. And we have like 16 by 10 and a
half something, but that really didn't get us enough space to
achieve what we want in the dining room and that is why we are
asking another four feet. Then on the back side, what we have,
kind of the roof is pitching down to a point that it is coming
just above the sliding door. That means if I want to increase
with that, I have to do quite a bit of improving on the roof a~d
everything else. And we have to improve that side whatever
because the greenhouse right now it is--
THE CHAIRMAN (interposing): --falling apart.
MR. DONADIC: It is in bad condition. So that is the
only reason. We find out when we lay out, we already have
someone who will give us the probation (sic, phonetic) on that.
I line up ~eople to do the job; but then when find out that
that, we have a limit to the property, so 10 foot is really too
small to do anything, what we want to do. It is a dining room,
'and you have table, Chairs on both sides~ and you could hardly
pass around.
ZBA Hearings 4 March 18, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN:
rather than a greenhouse construction?
MR. DONADIC:
the rest of the house.
THE CHAIRMAN:
MEMBER WILTON:
It is going to be a frame construction
That's right.
It will be exactly like
I see. Okay.
Is there a reason why you can't go
towards the back of the house where you have that glassed-in
room, perhaps make that larger to suit your purpose?
MR. DONADIC: Well, that one already is a room by
itself. It is kind of done, with put heat on the bottom, and it
is a glass enclosure. That is, it is already there; but it is
really like a greenhouse; it is not (noise on tape,
indistinguishable) because you don't have even the heat that is
(again undecipherable noise & coughs on tape) solid foundation
on the bottom, and almost the entire thing in glass. The place
where we want to put it is much more convenient. The kitchen is
right there,and it would be much more convenient than the one
going on the other side because we want to enclose that one and
then change it there. Structurally we got to go with a ro6f in
a different way and I think the back the way it is looks good
for us. The side we had to do something, no matter what,
because the greenhouse is not usable the way it is right now.
And it is constantly leaking, the plastic we had to put. So
since we are doing the job, that is why we want to gain some
space.
ZBA Eearings 5 March 18, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN:
-- there would be either a crawl space or a slab?
MR. DONADIC: There would be a crawl space.
a crawl space already, but we put regular heat in.
14 feet,
14 by 18.
There would be no basement under this
There is
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MRo WILTON: What will be the size of the new room?
MR. DONADIC: The size of the new room would be like
the depth~ and 18 feet lengthwise sideway of the house,
That is what they put down on the drawing.
(Inaudible)
THE CHAIRMAN:
another four feet?
MR. DONADIC:
THE CHAIRMAN:
approved already was 10 feet by 16.
What you are looking for basically is
Thank you0
What you had seen here tonight prior to
the start of your hearing was an agreement by the Board on side
yards on another application. Assuming the Board is not willing
to give you 14 feet, would you consider alternate relief from
this Board? If there was a figure that we could agree to? I
mean I would hate to see you --my question is, if we are not
going to give you 14 feet, and you say that's it, then we would
just deny the application. I personally like to come up with a
unanimous agreement, all right, and we refer to that as
alternate relief. Do you have any objection to that if we don't
agree on the 14 feet?
MR. DONADIC: Then really we can't accomplish what we
want. Actually this won't be a dining room anymore, and back
ZBA Hearings 6 March 18, 1993
the same thing as before because the room needs the size and I
really think maybe this is not that (indistinguishable) that you
or somebody because this garage next door, and it is not
something like we have the front, and we have the road on the
back of our property. So it is the question how to get the back
of the house, with the (inaudible)
there is no problem there because
front and on the back.
or the front of the house
there is a road that passes in
THE CHAIRMAN: I just didn't know. We will kick it
around, and we will do the best we possibly can, and we will see
what develops here. I am not positive we will get to it
tonight. We may get to it tonight. It is entirely up to you.
We have only four hearings on tonight. I have no idea how long
the hearings are going to go; so you are welcome to stay, or you
are welcome to give us a call tomorrow.
MR. DONADIC: We will definitely stay°
THE CHAIRMAN: Bob, do you have any questions of these
people, while they are standing here?
(No response from the Board.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody else, sir? All right. Is
there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
(There was no responseo
THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody who would like to speak against
the application? Seeing no hands, I make a motion closing the
hearing and reserving decision for later.
ZBA Hearings 7 March 18, 1993
(Seconded and carried; see Clerk's record.)
ZBA Hearings 8 March 18, 1993
APPLICATION NO. 4157 - DEPOT ENTERPRISES, INC.,
for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article VII, Section
100-71C (which refers to 100-31C-4, 100-33) of the residential
accessory use provisions), for permission to establish and
locate accessory outdoor recreational area with outdoor lighting
incidental to the main use of the premises. Location of
Property: 320 Depot Lane, and 29325 Main Road, Cutchogue, NY;
County Tax Map Parcel ID Noo 1000-102-2-12.1. Subject premises
is zoned Residential-Office (RO) and contains a total lot area
of 1.6+- acres.
7:46 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax
Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Let
me see what we have here. The survey is in four pieces. All
right, we will go with what we have. Dr. Lizewski, would you
like to be heard?
DR. LIZEWSKI: Yes.
Appearance: Dr. Joseph Lizewski,
Applicant Pro Se.
THE CHAIRMAN: How are you after fighting the fire
today?
DR. LIZEWSKI: It is still not over. I have to go
back. We would--did not consider screening the entrance to this
area and that has been done because the berms were just built in
the fall. By the time we got the berms done, and the parking
ZBA Hearings 9 March 18, 1993
lot in, there really wasn't enough time to really plan anything;
but there will be a screening on each side of this, this parking
lot~ There will also be -- the use of these lights will not be
used probably heavily in the months of December, january~
February, and March and probably April. I mean there will just
be accessory use to the outdoor use of the volleyball courts and
the club usually closes in the area of ten o'clock, so I don't
see that these four lights will have much use after, probably
after ten-thirty. When they are in use, they probably will not
be in use more than two or three months of the year, simply as
an accessory to the volleyball tournaments which we hold inside
the building all winter long, and then bring out in the summer.
Most of the summertime they don't have much use either, with the
summer days° But they are simply an accessory use to what is
already there. I have basically only two real neighbors: One
is the school, and the other behind me Mr. Dunn and Mr.
Fogarty. One is an empty lot, and the school district has their
own lights on their own building, so all night long, and these
lights will be used like I said --not, they are not structures
that, these lights have not been on since, I guess, October, so
I don't expect a lot of use out of them. I don't think they'll
be abused, and they are simply to help run tournaments if --as
the days get shorter in September and October, and maybe a
little bit in the spring.
THE CHAIRMAN: What
game would go on until?
is the maximum lateness that a
ZBA Hearings
10 March 18, 1993
DR. LIZEWSKI: We close at ten o'clock, but I could
envision a game going on until ten-fifteen or ten-thirty, you
know, in a tournament play or something like that. I doubt very
much if the lights will ever be on after that. I don't see a
reason for them ever being on; they are expensive to keep on.
That is about the latest I would say. There may be an occasion,
say~ just to have a wild idea-- that the school wanted to run a
marathon at that place for Multiple Sclerosis and play
volleyball for 24 hours straight-- that would be an instance
when they would be on longer than that. But under the normal
circumstances, ten-thirty, eleven o'clock would be absolutely
max. Most of the time they would be off at ten. Like I said, I
wouldn't want to tell you that there wouldn't be one time or two
times in the year when they may be on until eleven o'clock.
THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
DR. LIZEWSKI: It would be an exception certainly, not
the norm.
THE CHAIRMAN: On the berm areas that you are
referring to, could you kind of sketch those on the site plan
for us for the next meeting, so that we have it all there?
DR. LIZEWSKI: Sure.
THE CHAIRMAN: I'd appreciate that. And I just want
to ask the Board: Does anybody on the Board want to go down and
look at this lighting and have Dr. Lizewski actually turn it on
for us? Why don't we contact you between now and the next
ZBA Hearings 11 March 18, 1993
meeting and we will get a specific date at night, you know~
right after it gets dark.
DR. LIZEWSKI:
THE CHAIRMAN:
DR. LIZEWSKI:
like
No problem.
And they are operable?
They are operable right now, and there
are people in the club that will turn them on for you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Setbacks of the volleyball court.
Maybe you could just again also sketch in the specific area on
the site plan so that we could have that, if you wouldn't mind.
DR. LIZEWSKI: Where the volleyball courts are, okay.
THE CLERK: The setback.
THE CHAIRMAN: Which includes the setback from the
property lines on those two corners back thereo In other words,
the rear yard, and then the northeasterly side there.
DR. LIZEWSKI:
THE CHAIRMAN:
DRo LIZEWSKI:
have it drawn Upo
THE CHAIRMAN:
Okay, they are over 25 feet now.
From the sideyard?
Yes, if that is what you want~ I'll
Great. Thank you very much. As you
know, we are going to postpone this hearing until the next
regularly scheduled meeting. That is not to stop anybody
tonight who wants to speak; but because of one of the
neighbors-- he is away at this time, Mr. Jacobs.
DR. LIZEWSKI: Okay.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak in favor of this particular application?
ZBA Hearings 12 March 18, 1993
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody who would like to speak against
this particular application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing no further comment, I will make
a motion recessing this hearing to the next regularly scheduled
meeting, so that Mr. Jacobs has time to speak and comment on
this application° That will be on April 22nd.
Seconded and carried; see Clerk's minutes.)
ZBA Hearings 13 March 18, 1993
APPLICATION NO. 4078 - JOHN PHILLIPIDES & OTHERS (Owners)
by Theodore Petikas (Contract Vendee) for Variances to the
Zoning Ordinance, Article XXIV, Section 100-244B for permission
to locate new dwelling structure with side yards at less than
the required 10 feet and less than the required total sideyards
at 25 feet. Location of Property: North side of Soundview
Avenue, Southold, NY; County Tax Map Parcel ID No.
1000-135-1-27. This parcel is located in the R-40
Low-Residential Zone District is nonconforming as to total lot
area at 11,000+- Sq. ft.
7:55 p.mo (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notice and application for the record°)
THE CHAIRMAN: I have copy of a survey by Robert
VanTuyl dated October 25, 1991, with about ten amendments on it;
the most recent amendment was January 8, 1993. The nature of
this application is side yards, and I have a copy of the Suffolk
County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the
area. Is there somebody who would lik~ to be heard on this
application?
Appearance:
MR. HAJE:
Roy Haje, EN-Consultants,Inco,
North Sea Rd., Southampton, NY,
for the Applicant
Good evening. My name is Roy Haje,
EN-Consultants, 1329 North Sea Rd., Southampton, NY, on behalf
of M~. Petikas, who is the contract-vendee. The parcel consists
of 11,000 square feet. It is located on the north side of CR
ZBA Hearings 14 March 18, 1993
48, Arshamomaque. It is bounded on the north by Long Island
Sound, on the east by a Town park, on the south by CR 48, and on
the west by an improved residential parcel now or formerly
Dugan. It is and has been in single and separate ownership
since prior to Town zoning. The shape of the lot is irregular
and pie-shape with the narrow end near the road. As it is
located on Long Island Sound, both the New York State Department
of Environmental Conservation has jurisdiction under the Tidal
Wetlands Act and the Southold Town Board of Trustees has
jurisdiction under the Coastal Erosion Statute.
In order to comply with the requirements of the DEC
and the Trust~es, it was necessary to locate the proposed house
near the road to maximize the distance from the water. This and
the irregular shape combined to create the need for seeking
variance from the side yard, the total side yard requirements.
As shown on the site plan of Van Tuyl last revised January 8,
1993., the proposed 30-foot by 26-foot house will be 5 feet off
each property line. The applicant contends that the request for
variance is reasonable and necessary. The size of the house
requested is not excessive. It will be a two-story structure on
pilings, with an area of 780 square feet per floor. Any further
reduction would result in a dwelling of limited use to my
clients and limited value for resale in the future. (Noise on
tape drowns out a few words) side lines will result in no
hardship to the abutting properties, certainly to the east, the
parking lot and boat ramp are located on the Town property, and
ZBA Hearings 15 March 18, 1993
this will be no diminution in value or intrusion. To the west,
the existing house lies some 65 feet west of the mutual property
line. The proposed house will not be close to the existing one.
The project will be in keeping with the character of the
neighborhood, in that it will be a one-family dwelling with
front yard setback of 48 feet and complies with the average of
other homos -~there are two within' 300 feet-- that average is 44
feet. If the variance were denied and other regulations remain
in effect, the property would-be worth is valueless. This would
be a significant financial hardship, as the property is valued
at approximately $90,000. For these reasons we request the
relief in our. application~
THE CHAIRMAN: Can you tell me how we arrived at this
present position that you are replacing this proposed house?
MR. HAJE: Yes, it was as the result of requests
--combined requests-- separate requests-- from tho New York
State DEC and a further request by tho Southold Trustees to push
the house even closer to CR 48 than the DEC had wanted us. If
you will notice the indication of tho low bank on the survey,
the structure is now 100 feet back from that in a complying
location. The Trustees felt that this was a necessary location
to satisfy their concerns about the potential for erosion and
flooding, and so forth.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there any letter you have from them?
Because I just didn't see anything.
ZBA Hearings
March 18, 1993
MR. HAJE~ They have approved the project, and there
should be a copy of the permit in their file or at least--
THE CLERK (interposing): When was that done? How
recent? A week or two? Because we have an old approval for a
different location, from the Trustees.
MR. HAJE: Yes, I spoke to them perhaps a month ago,
and they said that they would bring up to you. I haven't
received my final copy either.
THE CHAIRMAN: You can just get us ones and we would
appreciate that if you would, okay?
MR. HAJE: Yes, I will do that.
THE CHAIRMAN: Secondly, the DEC has asked for a
position about 100 feet from the bay?
MR. HAJE: They would have allowed it to go closer to
the Sound, because their regulation is 75 feet from high water,
so they would have allowed it; but, again, the Trustees would
not have allowed it. And we have DEC approval, I believe.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, so we are dealing with a house
that is 26 by 30, and it is going to be two-story. The pilings
are going to be driven how deep? Just a guesstimate.
MR. HAJE: The pilings into the ground?
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. How far will your elevation be
above grade?
MR. HAJE: Well, the first-floor elevation is proposed
to be eleven.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
ZBA Hearings 17 March 18, 1993
MR. HAJE (continuing): --in order to meet flood-plain
regs. We have existing contours, let's see-- between six and
~ive in that area, so say maybe 6 feet above.
THE CHAIRMAN: What about the actual elevation of the
house? Of course it is going to be two-story because it is a
fairly small footprint.
MR. HAJE: Yes.
THE CHAIR/~AN: Is it going to be any more than
two-story?
MR. HAJE: No, it would comply with the regulation
which I believe is 35 feet.
THE~ CHAIRMAN: From grade, or from first-floor
elevation?
MR. HAJE: How does the regulation read? How is it
calculated?
THE CHAIRMAN: That is an interesting point --when we
discussed the federal--
THE CLERK (interposing): From grade,
THE CHAIRMAN: So if we were talking,
MRo HAJE (continuing): Six feet to the first floor
--35 maximum elevation is in the ordinance?
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MR~ HAJE: Yes, we comply with that.
THE CHAIRMAN: Then all you are really looking for us
then is the side yard?
MR. HAJE: And total sides°
it is from grade.
you know, --
ZBA Hearings 18 March 18, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: Turning this around, on the Town Beach
side we will refer to it-- what is the actual side yard over
there that you are asking for? I know it is five on the west
side.
MR. HAJE: The minimum on the east side is five, and
that is at the southeastern corner.
THE CHAIRMAN: Where it says laterkal, okay.
MR. HAJE: It tapers out to, maybe eight-- at the
northeast corner.
MEMBER VILLA: My survey shows four and a half feet.
MR. HAJE: Sorry, I see you are right, yes. I had
scaled it to five, but he has scaled it to four and a half.
THE CHAIRMAN: While you are up there, Bob, do you
have any questions of Roy Haje?
MEMBER VILLA: I have two concerns:
Health Department approval on this yet?
MR. HAJE: Yes, that is pending.
MEMBER VILLA: Because I doubt whether they are going
to allow a septic system right up against the retaining wall.
MR. HAJE: Van Tuyl is now trying to relocate them so
that they are five feet off. They didn't want to take any
action until we got all the other approvals, including the
Town's.
MEMBER VILLA: What is going to happen with the
culvert there? I see a note that says supposed to have a
concrete wall, on the end of this culvert. But the culvert is
One, have you got
ZBA Hearings 19 March 18, 1993
there because it is used as drainage. Where is the drainage
going to go?
MR. HAJE: It is used as drainage. It is~ in fact,
used without the consent of the owner, for draina'ge. It is the
responsibility of the owner to relocate that at his expense, and
we have gotten a letter which I believe is also in your filed to
the effect that the Department of Public Works has reviewed that
proposal and found it to be satisfactory so that will be
relocated. That was a concern of the Health Department which
now should be satisfied.
THE CHAIRMAN: Of course we have Town water here, so--
MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, but lots of times they put a
pervious pipe to drain off -- that close to the leaching pools~
you are going to start picking up the leach.
THE CHAIRMAN: And fill them up.
MEMBER VILLA: Where does it go?
MR. HAJE: That is one of the reasons why we have to
move it. The other is that we don't want this drainage going
right to the middle of the lot.
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, this is passive drainage at the
time? There are no septic pools that this is going into? Or no
storm drains that this is going into?
MR. HAJE: This is strictly road runoff.
THE CHAIRMAN: Just passive, running right out onto
the property?
ZBA Hearings 20 March 18, 1993
MR. HAJE: Yes. There is no --at the present time
there are no leaching pools to capture any water.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MEMBER WILTON: Do you know what the diStance is from
the Dugan house to their easterly border?
MR. HAJE: Sixty-five feet.
MEMBER WILTON: It is 65 feet from the edge of the
Dugan (phonetic) house to the easterly boundary?
MR. HAJE: Yes, relying on the survey which I assume
is correct -- I scaled it to be 65 feet.
MEMBER WILTON: I looked at it today and it looked to
be about five. feet.
imagine
MR. HAJE:
get back to us?
MR. HAJE:
MR. HAJE: Five feet from the Dugan (phonetic) house?
MEMBER VILLA: Basically~ yes.
MR. HAJE: To the property line?
MEMBER WILTON: Yes, it looked very close to where I
the property line to be.
Could you check that for us, Roy, and then
I certainly will get back.
MEMBER WILTON: It looked to me like if the house is
built where it is proposed, there would be ap0proximately 8 to
10 feet between the two houses, because where you are relocating
the house, 'that is right in a hollow now, isn't it? On the
property?
MR. HAJE: It is a low spot there.
ZBA Hearings 21 March 18, 1993
MEMBER WILTON: You see, I am taking Van Tuyl's
adjacent, That looks to be out of scale. It is not really
representative of what is there.
THE CHAIRMAN: So you are going to get usa copy of
what the Trustees, the. Trustees' approval, and you will check
this other thing out, and then we will, you know~ deliberate in
about two weeks on this, assuming we get everything; and,
hopefully, we will get it taken care of then, if that is all
right with you.
MR. HAJE: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thanks so much for coming over.
MR. HAJE: Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else who would like to
speak in favor of this application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody who would like to speak against
it? Questions from Board members?
(There w~s no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: No further questions. I make a motion
closing the hearing, reserving decision until later.
(Seconded and carried; see Clerk's minutes.)
ZBA Hearings 22 March 18, 1993
APPLICATION NO. 4141 - GEORGE AND ANGELtKI SPANOS
for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article XXIV~ Section
100-241(G) for permission to reinstate gasoline sales which is
nonconforming in the current zone district, R-40
Low-Residential. The subject premises is a corner lot as
defined by Section 100-13 of the Zoning Code and contains a
total lot area of 21,525+- sq. ft. This parcel is more
particularly identified on the Suffolk County Tax Maps as
District 1000~ Section 14, Block 3, Lot 22, and is referred to
as 330 Main Street, Greenport, NY.
8:08 pomo (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a survey from Roderick
Van Tuyl, P.C., the date on it is September 25, 1975; and I have
a copy of a Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. Is Mr. Cuddy present? How
are you this evening?
Appearance:
MR~ CUDDY:
applicants who are Mr.
Charles R. Cuddy, Esq.~
for the Applicant
I am Charles Cuddy~ and I represent the
and Mrs° George Spanos, who are both
here. I would first like to hand up to the Board, if I mays
exhibits; and I will refer to them as I go along°
(Whereupon materials referred to received by the Board
and marked Applicant's Exhibits 1 through 10 in evidence.) MR~
CUDDY: The Spanos's are residents of Mattituck and they own
ZBA Hearings
23 March 18, 1993
what is the Greenport service station. Probably most of you are
familiar with it. This is a station located the northeast
corner of Main Street and Champlin Place in Greenport.
It has been there at least to my knowledge some 25 years, and I
understand and am going to show you evidence it has been there
probably for fifty years in just the form virtually that it is
today.
This is an application to determine that the
non-conforming use has continued. The Code says that, that is,
the Southold Town Code says that where that non-conforming use
is discontinued for more than two years, that it becomes
abandoned. It.is our intent tonight to show you that it has not
been abandoned; and the use we are talking about is the gas
service station, that is, the gasoline pumps which were removed
a little over two and a half years ago; and that has presented a
problem because Mr. Spanos now wants to put paints in the ground
(noise on tape obscures a few words) and a service station.
I want to point out to everybody that this is not an
application for a use variance; it is not an application to have
a referendum on whether gasoline stations are permitted --It is
simply a very narrow question as to whether this is continued--
and we submit that it has--
The first point I would like to make, and I have
addressed --those exhibits with numbers so that you can follow
along with some of the things I am indicating-- is that it is a
non-coDforming use. The nonconformity I think is shown by an
ZBA Hearings 24 March 18, 1993
affidavit from Mr. Wippert (phonetic), who is a resident of
Greenport. He has been a resident of Greenport for more than
fifty years, in fact, all his life;' and he indicates in that
affidavit that this gas station has been at that site, that he
has personally observed it, that he is aware that the gas
service station was there as well as the repair shop for more
than fifty years, which takes it back prior to 1957 when
(coughing completely obscures tape) it is today because it is
located in a residential district.
The second and third exhibits are simply the deed into Mr.
Spanos which was in 1975, from the preceding owner, and the
exhibit that is annexed to that is the C.O. The C.O. was issued
by the Town in 1975 at the time that he got thepremises; it
indicates it's a non-conforming use. There is also an
assessment record from the Town which indicates that the
premises leased as of 1968, and going back beyond 1968 eas also
a gasoline service station and had been used in that capacity
for a number of years.
In or about April of 1990 this station was forced to stop
pumping gas, and Mr. Spanos will testify to that later because
they had to remove the storage ~tanks. From that time on, Mr.
Spanos conducted business, and I Will have him testify and other
people here testify as to the nature of the business he
conducted. 'The use that they continued basically is the sale of
automotive parts such as oil, grease and transmission fluid; and
it is our contention --and the testimony will be-- that those
ZBA Hearings 25 March 18, 1993
things permit him to continue the use today. He is going to
testify they occurred in 1990, they occurred in 1989, 1991, '92
and '93; and because of that continuation, I believe and I
submit that the law states that he has a continuing use of that
property; and I refer you specifically to a case that is called
Islip v. PBS Marina. It is a 1987 case that simply says that
you can only terminate a nonconforming use if it discontinues if
the discontinuance is total, meaning that it must be completely
terminated and in this case the very things that he did in 1988
and 1989 were still done in 1992, and that is, selling products.
THE CHAIRMAN: Will you furnish us with a copy of that
case, Mr. Cuddy?
MR. CUDDY: I can get you a copy.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
MR. CUDDY: For reference purposes I will cite the
citation. It is 133 Appellate Division 2d 81. And it is also
probably the books that are here-- 518 NYS 2d 427, and that is
this Department that covers Brooklyn~ Queens, Nassau, Suffolk°
The other thing I would like to point out to the
Board: If, in fact, the facts did indicate that there was a
continuing use --and they certainly do-- the equities are
entirely with Mr. Spanos. Before the tanks were removed, in or
about 1990 in February which is a month, two months before those
tanks were taken out, he went out and got a contractor to
indicate what the cost would be to him to replace the tanks; and
that is when the thing began to be a problem to him.
ZBA Hearings 26 March 18, 1993
Exhibit No. 6 is a contracting company that indicated
to him to replace the tanks, he could have 2 10,000 tanks, one
6,000 gallon tank, it would cost $148,000. That was
prohibitive. It didn't stop him, but
In 1991 about a year later he hired a
permit research people, as Exhibit No.
it sure slowed him down.
permit research firm. The
7 will show, made up a
plan in 1992, February 1992; they submitted it to the Department
of Health Services. That plan was approved in March of 1992,
and that is what Exhibit No. 8 shows, that the Health Services
Department had approved the installation of underground tanks.
He then had his permit application people make an application to
the Town of Sguthold Planning Board. Unfortunately this was
done in May of 1992, just about two years after the tanks were
removed° The application was made on May 8th; the Planning
Board a week later wrote him and said he missed by a day the
cutoff. That is Exhibit No. 9, which is a letter from the
Zoning (sic) Board. I would think that that exhibit plus the
fact that he was at all times making efforts to get this done
and in particular that he spent the money, several thousand
dollars, to get the plan, which was approved by the Health
Department. His inequities, which very few people have, and I
think that that alone should permit him to continue on at this
point --In any event, the Town itself has taxed him as if the
gas .service pumps were still there. I put his last two tax
bills before the Board. His taxes didn't go down, they
increased. There is no indication whatsoever that the Town
ZBA Hearings 27 March 18, 1993
thinks he is in any different business than he was before, and I
don't think he is.
Finally, I would like to say that Mr. Spanos
recognizes that there may be a problem with some people thinking
that his station hasn't been neat and orderly. He submitted a
plan to the Board to show what he plans to do in the future as
far as storing the vehicles; and I would like him to come up
--unless the Board has some questions at this point-- to testify.
THE CHAIRMAN: Just one question. Notwithstanding the
fact that he has worked on this proposal, you are referring to
this case of 1987 and saying that even though a person is not
dispensing one specific type of either automotive or marine
product, that this particular case indicates that since they
were dispensing or selling, you know, retail, types of
automotive products--no?
MR. CUDDY: The case doesn't say that. The case says
that you can terminate a non-conforming use only if you
discontinue every incident of that use. That case was referring
to a marina. The marina had 100 slips. They had one slip open
for two years. The Judge said that is enough because the rule
is (inaudible) so I don't want to say factually about oil, but
the same principle applies to this, that he was doing the same
thing that he did before, albeit he wasn't serving gasoline or
dispensing gasoline. What he was doing was selling oil, was
selling automotive products, the very things that he was doing
beforehand from the service station.
ZBA Hearings
28 March 18, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN:' Thank you.
G E O R G E S P A N 0 S , the applicant, being first
duly sworn by the Chairman, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CUDDY: ~
Q Mr. Spanos, are you.the owner of the Greenport Service
Station?
A Yes.
Q And you have been the owner for some 17 years at this
point?
A Yes.
Q Prior to 1990, I gave the date as roughly April of
1990, did you~dispense gasoline at the service station?
A
gasoline?
A
Q
A
Q
A
A
I did.
Did you actually operate the service station?
Yes.
Did there come a time when you stopped dispensing
Never stopped (inaudible)--
(Continuing) Well, in 1990 did there come a time?
Never stopped (inaudible)--
When did you stop selling gasoline --sometime in
1990 middle of the year.
beginning
19907
In the middle of 19907 Tell us when you think it was.
i never exactly remember the date, but it was the
of '90.
ZBA Hearings 29 March 15~ 1993
Q Prior to that time were you selling other products
besides gasoline at the service station?
A Yes, we used to sell everything that a car needs~ I
was selling antifreeze, oil, gas treatments, all these;
sometimes I would help customer that was stuck, you know, for
gas. I went with the gas tanks and bring the gas and sell to
them to help them out so I never stopped pumping the (word
indistinguishable on tape) here.
Q When you sold those products, were you selling in
hundreds or thousands of dollars? In 1989o
A
dollars?
A
Q
A
Q
same amounts?
Yes.
More than a hundred dollars? More than a thousand
What type of income did you have?
The gas?
Not the gas -- the oil products°
More than a hundred.
What about 1990 and '91 and '92 --you were selling the
A I losing because the cars doesn't (word
indistinguishable) gas, so but I was selling the other.
Q
Were you selling more
That I was.
Who operates the business~ Mr. Spanos?
I do.
And is your family going to continue to operate this?
Yes, since I open, my wife help meo Family business.
than a thousand dollars a year?
ZBA Hearings 30 March 18, 1993
Q
did you
A
When you set the tanks out, was that voluntarily; or
have to do it?
No, I had to do it because with the steel tanks not
allowed anymore
Q
excess of
A
Q
A
Q
get the tanks.
A
under ground. They have to be moved.
You heard me tell the Board it was going to cost in
replace the tanks?
$100,000 to
Yes.
How are
So I am
you going to do it?
going to mortgage my house.
So you are going to mortgage your house in order to
No pompany will install the tanks otherwise.
MR. CUDDY: I have no further questions.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have anything else you would
like to say?
MR. SPANOS: That is about it. I would like to put
back if I can, and continue operate (indistinguishable).
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Cuddy, could I just ask
a couple questions? We on the North Fork are certainly aware
that there is definitely a need for gasoline sales, and we of
course notice that predominantly in times of storms and so on
and so forth, when we don't have necessarily electricity, and
that was the case of a couple more recent storms myself when I
had to travel out to Greenport, which was the only entity that
had electricity-~ and we had to go to the only gasoline station
that existed at that time, which I think is Mr. Roberts over by
ZBA Hearings 31 March 18, 1993
the old movies-- Now I know there is another gasoline station
that is coming in, the old Gulf station which is G & S, and
there is no doubt in my mind. My particular problem here is,
and you did admit to it, and of your applicant, that this
operation is a little unsightly~ I would ask you, if you would
submit to the Board some type of covenant, some sort of
restriction that is tied to a certain type of this business,
only because I am concerned not only for the Spanos' but any
subsequent owners, if the Board is so interested in granting
this° It is a relatively small piece of property, as you know,
and in the operation of the repair of automobiles, it sometimes
requires that. these automobiles be kept for a certain period of
time until parts are gotten, and that has been, I think, the
major portion of the problem on this particular piece of
property, most recently from what I can remember~ I of course
don't live in the hamlet of Greenport; but when I do travel to
the hamlet of Greenport, I do see that on this particular site,
and that is my concern at this point.
MR. CUDDY: I don't think the applicant has a problem
with that. I discussed extensively with him the concerns, and I
am sure some of the neighbors have as to the sightliness of the
project, and he has indicated a willingness to bring it up and
maintain ito I submitted a sketch, drawing, to the Board to
show that ~e intended to fence part of it, and he also intended
to landscape part of it, to try and hide vehicles that he
stores. The fence will be sufficiently high so that can be
ZBA Hearings
32 March 18, 1993
done; but I don't have a problem if you want to condition
approval on that fence height.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is just for me --I don't know what
the rest of the Board want.
MR. CUDDY: I am saying that because we had discussed
that.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is this trailer still in use in the
rear of the property?
MR. CUDDY: No, I don't believe the trailer itself is
in use. It is still there.
THE CHAIRMAN: It is still there; it is not in use,
okay. Questions from Board members? Bob?
MEMBER VILLA: Yes, I have a question. A figure was
thrown out over a hundred thousand dollars to replace the tanks,
and that was the first one.. Is that number still current? Is
it higher?
MR. CUDDY: The number is lower. It is somewhere
between a hundred and a hundred-ten, as I understand it. This
~is from the people that he had actually do the plumbing.
MEMBER VILLA: Now my concern is, it is all we~l and
good to try to get back into business, but has anybody done an
economic study to see that he is going to be able to pump
enough gas to pay this off? And I would hate'to see a person
mortgage his house, get an approval, and then not be able to pay
off the mortgage because you are going to have to pump a lot of
ZBA Hearings 33 March 18, 1993
gas to pay off something like that. Has there been an economic
study done?
MR. CUDDY: No. I think it is his intent, it is
everybody's bent who is in business that they can' do it; he has
been there seventeen years and knows what his income is and he
knows a $100,000 mortgage is going to cost something, which is
not exorbitant, but it is money, and he is aware that it is.
Today the interest rates happen to be incredibly low, so he is
fortunate this is the time he is doing it. I don't anticipate
that that is going to be a problem, and Mr. Spanos as I say, has
been, is not a newcomer to the business, and he is aware what it
produces° He has indicated to me that that type of mortgage he
thinks he can handle, and also that the cost, he has it down
somewhat, so that it is not 148, and probably can reduce it by
some $30,000, $40,000; but he anticipates he can do it. This is
a man who knows how much he makes in a business.
MEMBER VILLA: Some of the neighbors have expressed
concern over the condition of the pro-erty. Is there a time
schedule or a time-frame that you have --to put it bluntly-- to
clean it up?
MR. CUDDY: I would think we would be able to clea~ it
up within a sixty-day period. And, as Mr. Goehringer suggested,
we would be willing to covenant that condition will be corrected.
THE CHAIRMAN: And remain?
MRo CUDDY: And not just to occur at that point but it
will remain that way.
ZBA Hearings 34 March 18, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN:
restrictions --there is
MR. CUDD¥: I
understand that
I can see some pretty exclusionary
no doubt in my mind.
point out to the Board also,
everybody wants the neighborhood to
and I
be decent,
and there can be no objection to that, but I think there is a
limit as to what can be compelled as far as where you put
things, and he only has so much room to work in-- I certainly
have no objection, and I can see no objection to saying he can't
put things on the Street or on the sidewalk, and I don't think
they can be piled high, but certainly in an area he can use, and
he will try and screen the area he uses sufficiently, and I
would hope th~at that would be adequate for the Board's
purposes.
THE CHAIRMAN: My concern, and we had had an
application on the Main Road, the applicant's name was Sunny
Brown-- and it was a pretty good decision that the Board had
come up with and the main concern is the placement of unplated
vehicles, the placement of dismantled vehicles or partially
dismantled vehicles, and those are the vehicles that would have
to be placed within the fence compound in the rear. Current
vehicles that are being used, that are being worked on, as long
as they didn't disrupt the normal function of visibility on the
property of making that right turn and in the same case of
making a l~ft turn onto Main Street, and so on and so forth; but
the main concern of this Board is the more than temporary
placement of vehicles that simply don't ever move, they just
ZBA Hearings 35 March 18, 1993
point and said that;
we have a covenant,
consequences to it,
stay there, and they are hatching a service station, so to
speak. I hate to use old cliches, but that is, you know--
MR. CUDDY: I have no problem with what you are
talking about at all. I would point out to the Board, as you
are aware, the Town has enforcement offices. I don't know what
has or hasn't happened in the past° Also, they have, if they
are violating, and I assume that that is what people are talking
about-- I would assume someone would have gone to them at this
but if that still exists, by the way, and
the breach of that covenant may have certain
but I think that the Building Inspector or
enforcement code personnel officer can go out and at any time
claim he has exceeded his limits.
I have other witnesses~ very short.
THE CHAIRMAN: Surely.
MEMBER VILLA: In the re-establishment of gasoline
sales, do you plan on modifying the lighting of the property in
any way from what exists today?
MR. CUDDY: I think that the lighting would become
somewhat --it is shown on the plan, I think-- it would be more
current than it is. I don't think the lighting will reflect on
the neighbors, if that is what you are talking about. We have
no problem with that; but the gasoline pumps, by the way, will
not be --one time they were on the street-- They will not be on
the Street anymore. They will be inside the canopy, so the
lighting doesn't have to go further than that.
ZBA Hearings 36 March 18, 1993
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Anyone--
MR. CUDDY (interposing): I would like Go call Mr.
Brown, if I may.
VICTOR BROWN, being first duly sworn by the Chairman,
testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CUDDY:
Q The next few witnesses are going to testify basically
to the continuing use of the premises and ask to make the
statement on the record.
A Okay. For at least the last two or three years that I
can remember and prior to that time, I have regularly been going
to the Spanos station to buy oil products, oil, oil-change,
antifreeze, things of that type; and it has been available for
me each time that I come. I ask for a particular type of oil,
and he has it.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is great. Thank you very much,
sir.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening, how are you?
M A R I O N L A T N E Y , called as a witness by
Applicant, being first duly sworn by the'Chairman~ testified as
follows:
My name is Marion Latney.
have been living there all my lifeo
been there,
I live in Greenport. I
Ever since Mr. Spanos has
he has been helpful to me with my car° Anytime I
ZBA Hearings 37 March 18, 1993
need it,
serviced my car. I get oil from him.
George will do it for me.
THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
MS. LATNEY: And I miss him.
THE CHAIRM_~N: Thank you very much.
(Whereupon witness was excused.)
THE CHAIRMAN: How are you tonight, sir?
if my car breaks down, he is right at my house. He
Anything my car needs,
JOHN CARTSELOS, CUTCHOGUE, N.Y., called as a witness
hyApplicant, being first duly sworn by the Chairman, testified
as follows:
I am John Cartselos; I am a resident of Southold.
What I would like to say is that I have been dealing at the
Spanos Service Station for many years, and I still go up there
to get my car serviced; prior to 1990 and it is continuing,
antifreeze and servicing my car. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any further questions of
the Board? Of Mr. Cuddy or applicant? Anybody? No?
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else who would like to
speak in favor of this application? Yes, sir.
CHARLES RAYNOR (phonetic, unsworn): My name is
Charles Rayno~. I live at 17 Sound Road. I have lived there
for twenty years. George has serviced my truck and my car ever
since he has been in business, with Prestone, grease, any repair
ZBA Hearings 38 March 18, 1993
needs to be done, George did them.
all I have to say.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
He done a good job. That's
Anybody who would like to
speak either for or against this application? Seeing no hands,
we thank you all for coming in and bid you all good evening; and
I will make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision
until later.
(Seconded & carried; see Clerk's minutes.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
(Transcribed from 3/18/93 hearing tapes, jdr)