HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-01/14/1993 HEARING PUBLIC HEARINGS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
January 14, 1993
(7:30 p.m. Hearing)
HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER,
Chairman
JAMES DINIZIO, JR.
SERGE DOYEN
ROBERT A. VILLA
RICHARD C. WILTON
LIN-DA KOWALSKI, Secretary-Clerk to Board
RECEIVED ANDF~.i~ED BY
THE SOUTHOLD TOVv~N CLF_~./~
DATE ?~3/~3 HOLm ~:aa~.
Town Clerk, Town o~ Southold
APPLICATION NO. 4141 - ALICE BENNETT
for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section
100-33 (and as amended December 4, 1992) for the placement of an
accessory garage in the front yard. area with a setback at less
than the required 60 feet in this R-80 Zone District. Location
of Property: 2725 Soundview Avenue, Peconic, NY; County Tax Map
Parcel No. 1000-68-1-10.
7:32 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read
the Legal Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I have a site plan indicating proposed
location of the garage, which is approximately 48 feet from
Soundview Avenue and 20 feet from the westerly property line.
The garage is, the proposed garage, is 30 feet by 3'4 feet and
approximately 17 feet 6 inches to the ridge. The architecture
is somewhat that of a small soapbox and I have a copy of the
Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding
properties in the area. Is there somebody who would like to be
heard in behalf of this? How are you again, sir? Could you
just state your name for the record?
JOSEPH DIAZ, BUILDER: I represent Alice Bennett.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okays.
MR. DIAZ: The reason why we are asking for this less
than the 50 feet is because of the angle of the road. If we go
back the required setback, we are going to lose about three or
four nice beautiful red oak~, which I don't want to disturb if
possible.
1/14/93 Hearings
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THE CHAIRMAN: And you propose to put it on the west
side rather than on the east side of the property? I have to
know for the record why you don't want to put it on the other
side of the property.
MR. DIAZ: The other side -- we have the driveway, and
another here. If we get into that area, we get into a big bunch
of (inaudible).
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
THE CLERK: I would like to be able to pick everything
up here (addressing Mr. Diaz, who is speaking inaudlibly for
record).
MR. DIAZ: Sorry, ma'am. I would like to salvage what
I could.
THE CHAIRMAN: In looking at the property, there is a
similar garage about 600 feet down--
MR. DIAZ: It was a one-car garage which was put into
storage for her light crafts and the stuff that she does.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is the one over closer to the
house, yes. I just meant there is one in the area.
MR. DIAZ: There is another garage east that is within
20 foot of the road, which is less than 300 feet down the road.
If you want to go west, I think there is another one. I am not
positive. There is another one pretty close.
THE CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any questions of Mr.
Diaz?
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MEMBER VILLA: Yes. I looked at the property and my
feeling was that if you pushed it back the 60 feet, which is 12
feet back, further, you have to take less trees down because of
the driveway. That whole area is wooded.
MR. DIAZ: Well, if you look at the map there, we
pushed it back --there is a tree right now which is north of the
driveway. If we push it back, it means that tree and the other
tree has to go and he did not--
MEMBER VILLA (interposing): What other tree?
MR. DIAZ: There is three more trees.
MEMBER VILLA: You would only be taking one tree down--
MR. DIAZ (interp6sing): But there is more trees which
we don't indicate.
MEMBER VILLA: But there is a lot of trees in front of
where the garage is placed right now, which would not be taken
down.
MR. DIAZ: Yes, well you have a 52 foot setback on
the east end of the building, and your average is 55 and a half
feet, or 55 plus.
MEMBER VILLA: Yes, but it is the closest point that
you go from.
MR. DIAZ: It is an average; and if you go up the
road 300 feet, you got a garage that is within 20 feet. I think
the Building Department says anything within 300 feet because
this is wetlands and front yard--
Board of Appeals Page 5 1/14/93 Hearings
MEMBER VILLA: Wouldn't it be more attractive to have
the garage closer to the house?
MR. DIAZ: It may be, but we are going to lose a lot
of trees which we don't indicate on the map.
MEMBER VILLA: I looked at it and it is six of one and
half a dozen of the other because if you push it further
forward, you have more driveway and are taking out more trees in
the driveway area.
MR. DIAZ: They don't want to get it too close to
the house.
MEMBER VILLA: Well, it is only 12 feet.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I looked at it as a swap kind of
thing because the longer the driveway is, the more trees you
take out; you push it back, sure, you lose that one tree, but
you save all the other trees; so it looks to me like a swap.
MR. DIAZ: We are going to take out some trees in
the driveway, but they are small pin oaks.
MEMBER VILLA: The whole thing is heavily wooded, no
question.
MR. DIAZ: I will answer to you and go by your
decision. I gave you my opinion.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is this a higher spot where you
propose, Mr. Diaz?
MR. DIAZ: Yes. It is more level, less excavation.
But if you go to the north of that, there is a hollow there, a
Board of Appeals Page 6 1/14/93 Hearings
slight hollow that means bringing in fill and (inaudible). It
doesn't show all the trees.
MEMBER VILLA: I realize that. The whole thing is
wooded, so you are losing trees no matter what you do.
MR. DIAZ: Well, I am against losing too many good
trees. Pin oaks, shrubs, stuff that is not too healthy, fine.
But when you got oaks 16 and 18 inches around and 40 feet high
and healthy, to me it is ridiculous.
MEMBER VILLA: Well, the only problem I have with that
is, once you build a building, it is there forever~ and the tree
could be there today and we could have a storm, and tomorrow it
might not be there. So those things happen.
THE CHAIRMAN: I just wanted to ask Mr. Diaz --the
upper level of this garage is, it is really a one-story garage~
MR. DIAZ: One story.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there any room for any type of
storage in that?
MR. DIAZ: It is not planned for that.
THE CHAIRMAN: It is going to be completely open.
MR. DIAZ: Completely open.
THE CHAIRMAN: And the only utility is the electricity
in the building?
MR. DIAZ: That's all.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else on the Board who-
has any specific questions?
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MR. DINIZIO: If I understand you right, you are
here for two feet?
THE CHAIRMAN: No, it is a 60 foot setback because it
is an R-80 zone.
MR. DIAZ: On one end of the garage the road goes on
an angle, so we are averaging 55 foot.
THE CHAIRMAN: It calls for a 12-foot variance.
MR. DINIZIO: I know if you went to the cul-de-sac
Dart of this driveway, you could not build. It slopes off
pretty good there.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else who would like to
speak? Thank you, sir. Anybody else who would like to speak in
favor of this application? Anybody who would like to speak in
favor of the application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody who would like to speak against
this application? Anybody who would like to speak .against the
application?
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing no further comment, I make a
motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later.
(Seconded and carried.)
THE CHAIRMAN: We hope to have a decision for you
tonight later if you want to sit back for a little while. We
are going to play around with it after the other hearings on the
calendar.
Board of Appeals Pa~e 8 1/14/93 Hearings
APPLICATION NO. 4146 of FREDERICK E. HULSE, Jr. and
JOYCE HULSE for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article
III, Section 100-32 for permission to locate proposed addition
with a reduction in the southerly side yard at less than the
required ten (10) feet. Location of Property: 235 Sunset Lane,
Greenport, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-33-4-49. The
subject premises is substandard in lot area and is located in
the R-40 Zone District.
7:35 p,m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notice and application for the record. )
THE CHAIRMAN: The nature of this application is a
garage added to an existing garage, and it is to be placed
southeasterly corner of the property, adjacent the existing
garage, as I just mentioned. The application reads: I need to
add 10 feet to the existing garage. There is only 17 on the
south side. The variance is to encroach 3 feet into the side
yard area; and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map
indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr.
Hulse~ would you like to be heard?
MR. HULSE: Yes. Speaking in favor, of course. This
is an area of many 75-foot lots who are entitled to 5-foot side
yards. In fact, my neighbors up the road, a few of them do have
5-foot side yards. Also the area is mainly attached garage, not
detached garage, and so it certainly will not change the
character of the area. If this was not granted, I would have to
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put a detached garage in the rear yard going back on that same
side, which I believe I can go like two feet off the side yard.
THE CHAIRMAN: Three.
MR. HULSE: Okay, three. And I would have to go in
the back and do that, which certainly would not be keeping with
the character of the area. And I can,t see where it would harm
anything or devaluate anything.
THE CHAIRMAN: This is going to totally conform to the
existing garage?
MR. HULSE: Exactly. Just going to take that wall
and move it 10 feet out, I hope.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anyone
else in favor?
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: This is a very difficult thing
for me to do.
THE CHAIRMAN: Could you state your name for the
record, ma'am?
MARGARET T. DEALE: I have already sent a letter to
the Zoning Board expressing my opposition to Mr. Hulse's
plans, and at that time I made a suggestion which could mitigate
my concern. The present plans would not only affect the chances
of selling my house but also the price that I might get for it.
Either way I could be damaged. Now according to the notice, the
side yard requirement is.ten feet; the sketch attached to the
notice indicates the proposed garage addition would come to
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within 7 feet of his property line, a 3-foot incursion, and that
the lot area is substandard.
THE CHAIRMAN: What you are telling me, Mrs. Deale,
is that you are requesting that Mr. and Mrs. Hulse build a
fence; is that what you are requesting?
MRS. DEALE: Absolutely.
THE CHAIRMAN: And what height is that fence to be?
MRS. DEALE: Six feet, and I don't think it is an
unfair request.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, before we go back tO the
Hulses, does anybody have any specific questions? Of either?
Mr. Hulse~ do you have any objection to building a fence?
MR. HULSE: Yes. I can see no reason for a fence.
And one more structure on the property will certainly change the
character possibly of the neighborhood. Besides, as I recall
from my days here, six-foot-fences are only allowed in the rear
yard area; is that correct?
THE CHAIRMAN: I would assume she was referring to the
edge of the front of the garage back.
MR. HULSE: That is the side yard.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. You can go six feet in that area.
MR. HULSE: I see no reason for a fence.
It would do absolutely nothing.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions from anybody? No?
Do you have any other comments, Mrs° Deale?
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MRS. DEALE: I think it is bad in the way of
(inaudible).
THE CHAIRMAN: We thank you all for coming in. We
will close the hearing and deliberate on this later. You are
welcome to hang around. It is entirely up to you. If not, give
us a call tomorrow. Did you hear me, Mrs. Deale?
MRS. DEALE: No.
THE CHAIRMAN: I will restate it in a moment. I make
a motion closing this hearing and reserving decision until later.
(Seconded and carried.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Deale, we will probably deal
with this later tonight. If you would like to call us tomorrow,
you are so welcome to in the morning. Thank you. Thank you
very much for coming in.
Board of Appeals Page 12 1/14/93 Hearings
APPLICATION NO. 4145 - of JOHN S. McGEENEY and EDWARD F.
RODENBACH(as Trustee) for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance,
Article III, Section 100-32 for approval of a reduction of the
10t area of an existing parcel, with an increase of the lot area
of the adjoining parcel~ in this proposed lot-line change.
Location of Property: South Side of Crescent Avenue and the
north side of Avenue "B," Fishers Island, NY; County Tax Map
Parcel ID Nos. 1000-6-2-5 and 6. Each lot as exists is shown
as substandard in lot area and is located in the R-80 Zone
District.
7:45 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax
Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area; and
I have a copy of a sketch of a survey dated October 21, 1992, by
Chandler, Palmer & King of Norwich, Connecticut, with
revisions on November 19, 1992, December 2, 1992, and the the
most recent one January 6, 1993, indicating lot line change from
the lot adjacent to Avenue "B," which consists of two
structures, actually two dwellings, and thereby adding to that
lot and taking away from the house that fronts on Fishers Island
Sound by view which appears, after a physical inspection, to
also have a main house and a cottage. Mr. Ham, would you like
to be heard?
Appearance: Stephen L. Ham III, Esq.
45 Hampton Road, Southampton, NY,
Board of Appeals Page 13 1/14/93 Hearings
MR. HAM: I appear on behalf of the applicant. Good
evening. What we are trying to do here is adjust a lot line by
increasing the size of one piece of non-conforming lot and, of
necessity, reducing the size of the other. We have -- there are
several benefits that are immediately-- that you can see from
that-- we are eliminating that encroachment of cottage from the
southerly parcel onto the northerly parcel. And we are squaring
off the property so that the northerly lot fronts only on
Crescent Avenue, and also both lines will be more in conformity
with those adjoining on the east anyway. The one On the west is
somewhat larger. As an additional benefit, what my clients
intend to do --and that is something I have a late development
on this-- but what they intend to do right now, as you know, you
have seen the pre-existing Certificate of Occupancy. The
southerly parcel is legal for two single-family dwellings on an
approximately 20,000 square-foot lot, and a zone district that
requires not only one single-family dwelling but also minimum
lot area of 80,000 square feet. He is willing to abandon that
use in order to have this lot line or this variance approved for
the northerly parcel. However, he does wish to construct
another dwelling after these two non-conforming uses are
abandoned --he does want to preserve obviously the viability of
the lot for single-family dwelling. However, he may need some
relief for the rear-yard setback in order to preserve or to
create a view of the water.
Board of Appeals Page 14 1/14/93 Hearings
THE CHAIRMAN: Let me have that again please. Avenue
"B"the house adjacent Avenue "B" which has the
no~-conforming--sorry two houses with pre-COTs on them--
MR. HAM: Right.
THE CHAIRMAN: He eventually wants to demolish both of
those?
MR. HAM: That's right.
THE CHAIRMAN (continuing): And build one house-~
MR. HAM (continuing): In the northeast corner of that
parcel. Looking at the setback requirements, if h~ is held to
an R-80, he would have a required 75-foot rear yard on that
parcel. If he is entitled to the relief provision under Section
100-2~0B which I don't ~hink technically he would be, without
your relief, he would still be held to a 50-foot rear yard.
That is the section whereby a pre-existing nonconforming lot
which is between the area of 40 and 80,000 square feet, well,
no, between 20 and 40 --would require a 50-foot rear yard. He
still may need more relief than that. And what I would propose
would be that he would maintain --as a condition to your
variance, among other conditions it obviously has to be subject
to Planning Board approval-- and we are in the Planning Board
right now. I would propose that if he maintained a no greater
setback than the existing cottage, on the southerly parcel,
that he would be entitled to a variance for a rear yard, not for
any other side, front, or whatever.
Board of Appeals Page 15 1/14/93 Hearings
Other reasons of practical difficulty here, he would
like to, if he could, and in fact his original proposal to me
was to give 30 feet --These parties, by the way, it is single
and separate. Edward Rodenbach is Trustee for a Trust under
which John McGeeney's children are the beneficiaries. So we
have similarly interested parties here, so there is no problem
in terms of back and forth. He had originally wanted to give 30
feet to this southerly lot. However, there was a problem with
the garden. I know the Planning Board would go crazy if we
tried to move a lot line in a jagged way. So we h~ve that
difficulty. The utility services here, obviously some of these
can be taken down after the two structures are destroyed, but it
appears --and this development came late today so I haven't had
a chance to investigate whether some of these services would
still have to serve this adjoining neighbor. So the farther
back he is would not only --is not only the result of the fact
that we can't give more property there, but also the. utility
problems and also, frankly, the idea that there is a better view
from this point to Fishers Island Sound.
THE CHAIRMAN: Would you explain to me again how that
is two separate lots?
MR. HAM: How it is two separate lots? They are
different owners.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is what I mean. Is McGeeney--
Board of Appeals Page 16 1/14/93 Hearings
MR. HA~ (interposing): McGeeney is the parent of
the children who are the beneficiaries of the Trust. This lot
is held by a Trust. This lot is held by an individual.
THE CHAIRMAN: Based upon your presentation here, in
my opinion, and only my opinion because I am only one of five
members-- I would try to be as liberal as I possibly could
because of course we would be vacating one of the pre-existing
dwellings and doing away with that so I don't know if this
variance can be contingent on any future proposed plan.
Certainly we are going to listen to it; we are going to do the
best we can. As you know, in your presentation to us in the
last situation we had with you, with the tennis court, we did
everything we possibly could to get that tennis court in, and we
are going to do the same situation here. But I don't think we
can contingently place any specific footprint at this particular
time without actually seeing a footprint of the house and so on
and so forth~ and having the notice from the Building Inspector
and blah blah blah.
MR. HAM: Well, I agree with you in the sense that in
effect we would be asking for an additional variance to what we
would be getting here. However, I would ask your opinion as to
which setback would apply, were this variance to be granted, as
stated, what setback were the owner of those southerly two
parcels to remove those lots and apply for a building permit to
build on that parcel, for a single-family dwelling which would
apply. Now, I have looked at the ordinance, and I mentioned
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that section that does give relief to formerly single and
separate ownership; but it seems to me anyway that you could
argue either way but you certainly could make an argument that
he would have comply to R-80, that that would not apply, in
which case he would have a 75-foot setback and a 60-foot front
yard. So there is not a whole lot of room in there at that
point.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you want to ask another question?
MEMBER DOYEN: I suppose you kind of backed into
this. What difference would it make if you didn't ~pply at the
same time for your new envelope in this change in lot line?
MR. HAM: If we just obtained a--
MEMBER DOYEN: You want to be certain that you can
place the house where you want it, so if you--
THE CHAIRMAN: He really --
MR. HAM: The answer is that he really would like to
move forward with removing these two non-conforming dwellings at
this point.
THE CHAIRMAN: Then why don't we do this -- Why don't
we hold the application in abeyance and we will recess it
without a date, and then come back with a new (inaudible) and
put the whole--
MR. HAM: I don't disagree with that.
THE CLERK: I think he is asking us to put the
building envelope on there according to the Code. If he could
vary that, then he could come back with another plan. But if he
Board of Appeals Page 18 1/14/93 Hearings
gives you a new building envelope and it needs variances, he
would also have to apply for another application°
MR. HAM: I don't think you have jurisdiction on the
latest request° It came up later. I would like to put it
together as a package though and hold it open. When he decides
finally what it is he wants. It seems that every time I am
before you, I have gotten some late news.
THE CHAIRMAN: Actually that is better news than--
MR. HA~ (continuing): Because he is willing to bind
himself to remove those dwellings.
THE CHAIRMAN: I propose that you discuss with him
where the envelope is to be and then go back to the Building
Inspector and be further denied under the new aspect. Put it in
in dotted lines over the existing, and then let's go for it.
MR. HAM: Would you tell me what my filing fee would
be for the new?
THE CLERK: If it is one variance, it is $400. If it
is more than one, it is $600. When can you file? Two weeks?
If you wait, we have to charge the new--
MR. HAM: If I could get it in.
THE CLERK: What did you pay on this one?
MR. HAM: Three hundred.
THE CLERK: The maximum now is $600, so you would pay
another $300.
MR. VILLA: You mention the gardens. Is it still
going to be like a family situation, right? The two lots?
Board of Appeals ~Pa'ge 19 1/14/93 Hearings
·
MR. HAM: Oh, yeah. I think what he ultimately
intends to do is to, when his children become of age, that they
will take title to the southerly lot and either --whether he is
going to build on it immediately, I am not sure. He told me
specifically late this afternoon that he is willing to bind
himself to remove those two dwellings. In fact, he offered to
have one burned for the Fishers Island Fire Department, for
practice.
MR. DOYEN: I think it would be advisable to have his
building permit envelope because once you demolish~ you destroy
an existing dwelling, you --the law looks upon it a little
differently.
MR. HAM: Well, no, I would listen very carefully and
hopefully have a part in drafting whatever variance is granted
to this to make sure --
MR. DOYEN: Everything should be in place before you
remove.
MR. HAM: No question.
MR. VILLA: My question was, couldn't they shift the
lot line north of the garden? So you don't disturb it. And
give yourself more latitude for building.
MR. HAM: Then you may be affecting marketability of
the northerly parcel if the garden is appurtenant to the
southerly parcel.
Board of Appeals Page 20 1/14/93 Hearings
MR. VILLA: I mean that -- the lots are so much
different in size that it would seem like it is all wasted space
back there to some extent. At least it looks that way.
MR. HAM: In an ideal world, if that garden were not
there, than I would agree with you, I think under current
circumstances, however, that would put a burden on the northerly
parcel.
THE CHAIRMAN: The only other question is, is the
diagonal indication of the word building, which of course
appeared to be a shed at one time --
MR. HAM (interposing): The answer to that is the
surveyor apparently at a time when the original survey which I
had submitted originally, had noted it as a shed and Balbon
(phonetic - no spelling supplied record) Services Inc., who is
the contractor who applied for the building permit to move that
shed, apparently just picked up that terminology. However, that
was apparently used for --I guess his kids slept there-- had
some plumbing in it. He characterizes it a guest-house.
However, he is not asking for something can't do what is on the
southerly parcel, namely two rentable single-family dwellings.
I mean, you can characterize that as an accessory building if
you like.
THE CHAIRMAN: What is in there now? Just plumbing
and--
Board of Appeals Page 21 1/14/93 Hearings
MR. HAM: There is some plumbing and apparently he
wants to continue the historical practice of children or someone
maybe throwing a sleeping bag in there or something.
THE CLERK: I think there is no plumbing, right?
MR. HAM: No kitchens.
THE CHAIRMAN: Why don't you go down and look at it
for us {addressing Mr. Doyen)?
MR. HAM: He is doing everything in accordance with
the Building Permit.
THE CLERK: It is new plumbing though, ri~ght, under an
active building permit?
THE CHAIRMAN: Thanks so much, Mr. Ham. We hope to
see you back again, and safe trip home.
MR. HAM: When do I need to get into the next hearing?
THE CLERK: Two weeks if you can.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody who would like to
speak for or against this application? Fishers Island. Seeing
no hands, I make a motion recessing this hearing without a date.
(Seconded and carried.)
Board of Appeals Page 22 1/14/93 Hearings
APPLICATION NO. 4144 - of SPECTACLE RIDGE, INC.
for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section
100-31A(1) for permission to establish second residential use in
the proposed accessory barn building (located in the front yard
area as per Appl. No. 4132A, decision rendered November 9,
1992) as living area for family member or guests, and domestic
servant (in one unit). Section 100-3iA(i) provides for
single-family use, not exceeding one dwelling per lot. Location
of Property: 14990 Oregon Road, Cutchogue; County Tax Map No.
1000-84-01-02. The subject premises is zoned
Agricultural-Conservation and contains a total area of 19+-
acres.
8:02 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the
Legal Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Again, I have a site plan --sorry,
actually it is a survey by Smith and Young, March 3, 1992, and
additional data added September 15, 1992; and I have a copy of
the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding
properties in the area. Let me get the other map out. And I
would like to ask the architect if he would like to speak on
behalf of the applicant. How are you tonight, sir?
Appearance: GARY STRANG, Architect,
&
for the Applicant
MR. STRANG: Good evening. Fine, thank you.
Yourself? I believe the Board is relatively familiar with this
application based on 0~r previous applications before this
Board of Appeals Page 23 1/14/93 Hearings
Board. I hope I can address the concerns and issues to the
Board. Essentially the application is relatively clear in
itself. What we are trying to accomplish here is a family
compound on this working vineyard that these people reside in
the principal dwelling, and the accessory building barn with the
second floor also to be used for residential purposes,
specifically as mentioned in the application for an apartment
for a brother of the owner, who is also the farm-manager or the
vineyard manager, and some guest facilities. My client's
preference is to have the guest rooms segregated f~om his own
principal dwelling. As pointed out, the property in reality is
actually closer to 21 acres and our intention here is to convey
the development rights or sell the development rights of the
vineyard to the Town of Southold. That is already ongoing and
in process with the Town and met with, I guess~ preliminary
approval, and it has been before the Town Board at this point
for their final action. Essentially, what would be done is, we
would be holding out 160,485 square feet for the residential
purpose, or purposes in-this case, or essentially four acres,
four builder's acres. The remaining land of 17 acres and change
would be part of these development rights and would be in the
Town of Southold. Again, I believe the Board is familiar with
this application and what we are looking to accomplish, and I
will be receptive to answer any questions or if the Board has
any comments or some feedback. I will try to be receptive to.
Board of Appeals Page 24 1/14/93 Hearings
THE CHAIRMAN: For the people who have not been privy
to this hearing, this is a culmination basically of ongoing
discussion. Does anybody have any specific questions of Mr.
Strang?
MR. VILLA: This differs from the last one in the fact
that it is now almost four acres instead of two acres.
MR. STRANG: Yes. We are setting off 160,000 feet
plus a bit to meet the criteria in essence having two acres for
each residential use, although it will be one site. The
intention here since it is a family compound, they ~really have
no need to subdivide it and break it up into individual lots.
But they do respect the fact that the Town has its criteria as
to how much land should be dedicated and allocated to
residential purposes, and they are willing to meet that
requirement by setting it off with metes and bounds and breaking
it out from the land that will be conveyed.
MR. VILLA: C and R's on that that there will be no
further subdivision of that or--
MR. STRANG: It can be. They have no problem with
that.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is an interesting point. Which
land would be the land of subdivision, once you sell the
development rights off to the 17 plus acres, or the 16-plus
whatever, --
MRo VILLA: No, I am talking about the three acres.
Board of Appeals Page 25 1/14/93 Hearings
THE CHAIRMAN: I know that; but in reference to the
three-acre parcel --You are referring to the three-acre parcel
as being no further subdivision.
MR. STRANG: I am sorry. Which--
THE CHAIRMAN: Three point six eight.
MR. STRANG: On this 160,000 being set off.
THE CLERK: It is not really being set off though, is
it? It is not being conveyed.
MR. STRANG: That is a misnomer. It is not being
set off~ it is being reserved, if you will.
THE CLERK: Okay, that is what I meant.
MR. STRANG (continuing): --As an area to be
developed with residential development where the remainder of
the land will be conveyed - Development rights conveyed to the
Town. Again, there is no intention whatsoever to further
subdivide that, break it off and make it into two lots, and it
will be no subdivision setoff or anything else. It ~eally isn't
their intention.
THE CHAIRMAN: I just want to ask you, Mr. Strang --
The purchase of the other parcel from the Propagation of the
Faith, has that been done?
MR. STRANG: Yes, it has.
THE CHAIRMAN: It has been done.
MR. STRANG: That has closed.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other further questions of this
agent of the applicant, gentlemen? No? Anybody else like to
Board of Appeals Page 26 1/14/93 Hearings
speak, either in favor or against? Seeing no hands, I make a
motion to close the hearing and reserving decision until later.
(Seconded and carried.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you so much. We hope to have a
decision for you tonight.
MR. STRANG: Thank you very much.
Board of Appeals Page 27 1/14/93 Hearings
APPLICATION NO. 4142 - of ADAM ASSOCIATES INC.
for a Variance under New York Town Law, Section 280-A for
approval of access for emergency and fire vehicles over a
private right-of-way extending off the easterly side of Cox Neck
Road, Mattituck, in an east-west direction a distance of
approximately 616.30 feet. The subject right-of-way is referred
to on the County Tax Maps as part of Parcel No. 1000-113-14-11
and is situated 670+- feet north of the intersection of C.Ri 48
(North Road) and Cox Neck Road. The parcels to which access is
requested in this application is identified as County Tax Map
Nos. 1000-113-12-10.1, 10.3, 10.2, 9, 8; (and Parcel No.
1000-113-14-11 restricted for park and recreation area use).
All areas of access are located in the R-80 Residential Zone
District.
8:10 pom. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the
Legal Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: The nature of this application is a
280-A access outside of the actual three-lot subdivision. It is
a right-of-way which is existing in size. It is probably a
fifty-foot right-of-way, of which a portion of it meanders over
that right-of-way area; and I have a copy of the Suffolk County
Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties. Is there
somebody who would like to be heard?~
Appearance: Ruth Engel,
Applicant Pro Se
Board of Appeals Page 28 1/14/93 Hearings
MS. ENGEL: I am Ruth Engel, one of the partners
involved. I would like to present the photographs you
requested, of the right of way.
THE CHAIRMAN: No problem. How are you tonight?
MS. ENGEL: Fine, thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: I will pass them right down. May we
keep those, Ms. Engel?
MS. ENGEL: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Is there anything you would
like to state for the record at all?
MS. ENGEL: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE: I'd like to be heard.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes; would you just state your name for
the record.
MR. AMATO: My name is Bill Amato. I am a
property owner adjacent to the right-of-way. I am here neither
to speak for or against. I have some concerns I would like
addressed by the Board, and that is the main reason I am here.
Or the only reason I am here. Right now the road as you said
meanders back to the property which Mrs. Engel I guess wishes
to develop. I have no objection to it being developed With a
road being maintained or upgraded. My concern is what kind of
upgrade? Is this going to be made into a 50-foot airstrip? Are
you just going to plow down all the undergrowth on both sides,
or is it going to be kept to a minimum, the road where it is
now, the width, I mean?
Board of Appeals Page 29 1/14/93 Hearings
THE CHAIRMAN: I just wanted to ask you, Mr. Amato,
before I answer that: Are you on the south side or--
MR. AMATO (interposing): Southeast.
THE CHAIRMAN: Southeast side. Okay, good. I believe
this road is going to service three lots, is that correct?
MS. ENGEL: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Normally in most situations we do not
follow a pattern that the Planning Board follows in reference to
their minimum requirements of a 22-foot macadamized road. We go
with the flow, quite honestly. I have been a fire~an in the
great town of Mattituck for approximately 25 years, and I know
the problems we have with access over dirt roads, in this
particular case, semi-paved roads in going to alarms; and', as we
have with ambulances also; so there is a great concern on my
part in dealing with the over-all conformity of some of these
roads. The problem that usually exists is not the maintenance
as it exists after the time the decision is rendered. It is
usually one that is done during the period of time that the
right-of-way exists in years to come. That is~ once you end up
with potholes, is the road going to be continually maintained,
and so on and so forth? That is one of the problems that the
Planning Board doesn't have to deal with when they ask for 22
feet of macadam. Okay? Go ahead.
MR. AMATO: Well, I have been maintaining up that
200-foot section myself by putting in what do you call it
--bluestone blend-- of that nature to harden it up; and also I
Board of Appeals Page 30 1/14/93 Hearings
fill in the potholes, but I can't attest to the other part. The
going back, I don't know what is going to happen with that.
Like I said, my concern is, I am afraid that if the road is made
to an extended width, that it is going to lead to more traffic
through that right-of-way, in addition to whatever individuals
who purchase property back there. I would like to keep the good
road to a minimum, and I understand that might be fifteen or
sixteen feet. If that be possible, I have no objection to it
being upgraded. I also would like it if they could keep it just
the way it is. Just open it up a little bit. I s~ould have
measured the road now. I don't have that, those dimensions with
me. But I assume it is at least ten full feet now. I would
like to keep the undergrowth on both sides of the road to keep
it as secluded as possible mainly because of traffic flow down
Cox Neck Road. As it is now, I'm very visible and I had to go
to the extent to put up hedges and evergreens to not only block
the land to the visual and the noise.
THE CHAIRMAN: My main concern, and you can measure
for us and give us a call tomorrow or on Monday-- is the width
between the plantings from the property over to the north, who
is your neighbor, adjacent where he has that planting area which
he uses for storage of that one car and your wooded area or
hedged area which is indicated there, because you know that's
the minimum area that we have at this point, that may have to be
elongated a little bit.
Board of Appeals Page 31 1/14/93 Hearings
MR. AMATO: Yeah, well, I understand, I am wishing
it being elongated widthwise, that it be taken on both sides,
not just chopped off one side like my side because he happens to
have his plants in. We both have encroached on that 50-foot
right-of-way, okay? He has plantings; I have my underground
sprinkling system, okay? When I had purchased the property a
number of years back, there was no subdivision plan for the
back. The reason I purchased the property there, because you
called for this- right of way so I would not have to come
directly with a driveway onto Cox Neck Road, which'trying to
come down Cox Neck Road any time of day or night in the
sUmmertime, is like taking your life in your hands. That was
the main reason I chose the section of property. Like I said, I
would like to keep it down to the minimum size. I have no
objection to fire or emergency apparatus going down the road or
anything of that nature or the road being (inaudible); but I
would like to keep it to a minimum. One more question: If this
is upgraded, how does it affect me with regard to the properties
in the corner to the northeast?
THE CHAIRMAN: The three-lot subdivision?
MR. AMATO: Not the three lots there. The other?
THE CHAIRMAN: I have no idea. I can't answer that.
Except if it came back to us for a further enhancement, the road
would have to be upgraded at that time.
MR. AMATO: My concern, another concern is: What
stops the property owners on the other side of this subdivision
Board of Appeals Page 32 1/14/93 Hearings
from petitioning the Board for a Variance to gain access over
this right-of-way?
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know if they have access over
it; that is the problem. They may -- I know there is access to
Westphalia. That is my question to you: Do you have a
right-of-way over this right-of-way?
MR. AMATO: Yes. It is deeded into my property. I
have access over the right-of-way.
THE CHAIRMAN: You have a driveway which--
MR. AMATO: comes out onto the right-of-way, yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: I have no idea -- does anybody else
have--
MS. ENGEL: I believe there is a recreation and park
area that is on that road, and that is one big subdivision which
I think your lot was part of.
MR. AMATo: That is four acres back there I believe
myself. But besides, further east if you enhance this road, you
give access to those property owners to the northeast of that.
MS. ENGEL: They have access on that~ they have
access on a private road that we have to Westphalia, and
access to the right-of-way to the North Road. They have three
different access.
MR. AMATO: They do have access to that, (inaudible)
to their property.
THE CHAIRMAN: So I will measure it to the best of my
ability on Saturday morning. If you would measure it please, and
Board of Appeals Page 33 1/14/93 Hearings
then we will compare both measurements and see what we have
there, and then we will sit down and discuss what we are going
to request for minimum improvements.
MR, AMATO: All right, how will I get in touch with
you?
THE CHAIRMAN: 765-1809. Our fulltima assistant is
the lady sitting to my right and your left, Mrs. Kowalski, and
I will be down there Saturday morning unless there is a
snowstorm or something.
MR. AMATO: I'll be there if you want to stop in.
Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: You're welcome. Would anybody else
like to speak in favor of this application? (No response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I offer a resolution to close this
hearing and render a decision after we have taken further
measurements.
(Seconded and carried.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much for coming in.
Board of Appeals Page 34 1/14/93 Hearings
APPLICATION No. 4140 - of JOHN CROKOS
FOR A Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article XXIII, Section
100-239.4~(1) for permission to locate structures within 100
feet of the top of the bluff along the Long Island Sound.
Location of Property: 2110 Grandview Drive, Orient, NY;
County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-14-2-3.11.
8:20 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal
Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of several site plans. I
have a survey produced by Roderick Van Tuyl dated October 14,
1992, indicating this parcel at 42,134 square feet, and I have a
copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. The nature of this
application before the public is a setback from the existing lip
of the bluff, and this application will be held in abeyance
pending Trustees' approval for anyone that would like to come
back. Is there somebody who would like to speak in behalf of
this application? How do you do, sir?
Your name for the record please?
Appearance: John Sandgren,
for the Applicant
MR. SANDGREN: My name is John Sandgren, of the
Architects representing the Crokoses. I would first, if I
may, fill out part of the file where Linda had requested certain
things. Owner authorizations for us to represent them for one
thing. Also, the receipts of mailing to'the adjoining property
Board of Appeals Page 35 1/14/93 Hearings
owners; deed of the property proving ownership. And also our
verbal assessment of why we are asking for this. I would just
like to, if I may, leave this with the Board, to just basically
understand a little better what we are up against. And I have
photographs of the property which are earmarked to the site to
give you some idea. In essence, what we have is the home which
for most situations is behind the hundred-foot line except for
one small corner (indicating). What we are asking here is the
pool and the terrace area, due to the fact that we have a fairly
narrow lot. It falls between the hundred-foot lin~ and the
coastal erosion hazard line.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, just let me ask: Is there
anybody that is very interested in this and would like to see
this? That is in the audience? (No response.) I'm sorry.
MR. SANDGREN (continuing): And, therefore, at this
point we feel that this is, that we are far enough back from the
actual line here and should be in good shape as far.as the
stabilization of this land. We have also contacted the firm of
Land Use Company, who will be working on a maintenance program
for the bluff over time. Also attached are some exteriors of
the home, if you wish to look at them.
THE CHAIRMAN: I have a million questions. Do you
want to ask any questions first, Bob?
MR. VILLA: No, go ahead.
THE CHAIRMAN: We have, Mr. Sandgren --first of all,
it is a magnificent house. No question about it. A magnificent
Board of Appeals Page 36 1/14/93 Hearings
piece of property. It is the type of property that, no matter
what day you are out there, it is magnificent. I was out there
on a day like today, and it is still magnificent.
Conceivably,we would do whatever we can to work with you and we
want to work with you on this basis. We do have certain
precedents that we deal with in reference to setbacks and, as
you know as I mentioned in the inception of this hearing, that
we are going to hold this in abeyance for a short period of time
until the Trustees make a decision. My main concerns are --I
know we have a 4,200 plus or minus square-foot house, so are we
talking--
MR. SANDGREN: The area of the footprint and
terraces in all were about 9.8 per cent lot coverage.
THE CHAIRMAN: Anything that is a blade of grass above
elevation I would like you to construe to be lot coverage
because it really is.
MR. SANDGREN: Yes, I agree.
THE CHAIRMAN: And so that we don't have any further
problems in reference to determining lot coverage and
understanding the lot coverage, because the worst possible
scenario wo~ld be to grant the application and then have you
come back for all the accessory stuff. Or to be deprived of a
portion of the accessory structure stuff, you know, that would
be involved in something. So the figures that you are giving us
include all of the lot coverage, all the decks, cement and pool
area.
Board of Appeals Page 37 1/14/93 Hearings
MR. SANDGREN: And the pool area.
THE CHAIRMAN: And the pool area -- all run around,
totally taking into consideration in these figures?
MR. SANDGREN: Right. The reason why we proceeded
by doing this, including a landscape designer, who has worked
out the terraces and pool --primarily, just for that reason,
that we didn't want to do just a part of this project and then
later on figure out what we were going to do with the terraces.
We wanted to get the full picture to the Town of Southold so we
didn't have any after-the-fact kind of things happen. So that
this is ALL that we intend to do on the property.
THE CHAIRMAN: We have not deliberated upon this at
all. We have visited. We looked at the plan. We have gone out
and looked at the property. By the time we finish here, there
may be some modifications in reference to setback. That's all I
can tell you at this particular time. I know this is about the
third redraft that you have done in reference to putting
everything into a more condensed version; is that correct?
MR. SANDGREN: That is correct.
THE CHAIRMAN: This was during the process you were
actually filing, during the Christmas holiday?
MR. SANDGREN: That's right.
THE CHAIRMAN: There may come a time and I am only
mentioning this to you -- that we may require that the pool in
some way be placed a little closer to the house or a little over
to one side a little more or whatever the case might be, so as
Board of Appeals Page 58 1/14/93 Hearings
to create a greater depth in reference to its proximity to the
lip of the bluff.
MR. SANDGREN: I understand.
THE CHAIRMAN: And that's all I can tell you at this
particular time because we are going to take it, we are going to
digest it, and then we are just going to wait for the Trustees,
and then we are going to ask'you to come back, and then we are
going to render whatever we feel is the most (inaudible). Okay?
MR. SANDGREN: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any specific
questions? Bob?
MR. VILLA: No.
THE CHAIRMAN: Jim or--
MR. SANDGREN: Would this be next month?
THE CHAIRMAN: Hopefully, yes. As soon as the
Trustees have rendered. I understand they are getting close on
it.
THE CLERK: I don't know if they have all the papers
yet. Do they have all the papers in front of them?
MR. SANDGREN: I am not sure that they do.
THE CLERK: Okay; it takes about a month or so.
THE CHAIRMAN: So the quicker you get them to them, we
would like to get it taken care of too.
MR. SANDGREN: Fine. Will do.
THE CHAIRMAN: Very nice to meet you. Anyone who
wants to speak for or against this application?
Board of Appeals Page 39 1/14/93 Hearings
(There was no response.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing no hands, I make a motion
recessing this hearing without a date. I offer that, gentlemen,
as a resolution.
(Seconded and carried~)
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you again for coming in.
Board of Appeals Page 40 1/14/93 Hearings
APPLICATION No. 4147 - APPLICATION of DONALD E. FAHEY, JR.
for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article IIIA, Section
100-30A.3 for approval of existing deck constructed almost 20
years ago. This deck, under the current zoning regulations,
does not meet the required rear yard setback for a substandard
parcel in this R-40 Zone District. Location of Property: 2675
Hobart Avenue, Southold, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No.
1000-64-5-32.
8:32 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the
Legal Notice and application for the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a survey produced by
Rampart Surveying Inc. dated November 6, 1992, indicating the
house and the approximate size of the deck. I have some photos
of the deck area. ! have visited the site as well as the
Board. The deck in approximate size is ten-three by twelve four
and three-quarters inches and it is unroofed. Is there anybody
who would like to speak in favor of this application? Sir? You
are very welcome to.
(No appearance listed on record.)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I am Donald Fahey, Jr., and I
have no other presentation to make, other than what has already
been indicated on the forms. But I am here if you would have
any questions.
THE CHAIRMAN: Are you selling this house?
MR. FAHEY: That's correct.
Board of Appeals Page 41 1/14/93 Hearings
THE CHAIRMAN: So you are just bringing everything
right up to present day, and that is the purpose of the
application?
MR. FAHEY: That's right.
THE CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any specific
objections to this deck?
(Board members said No.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I offer this as a resolution,
gentlemen: To be approved as long as it remains unroofed.
(Seconded and carried.)
MR. FAHEY: Thank you very much.
THE CHAIRMAN: You're welcome. I kind of skipped over
people in the audience. I kind of assumed there wasn't anybody
who was going to object to it. You didn't look like an
objecting group, so--