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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-10/15/1992 HEARING PUBLIC HEARING BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD October 15, 1992 (7:30 p.m. Hearing) P r e s e n t : HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, Chairman SERGE DOYEN, Jr. JAMES DINIZIO, Jr. ROBERT A. VILLA RICHARD C. WILTON HARVEY A. ARNOFF, TOWN ATTORNEY LINDA KOWALSKI, Secretary-Clerk to Board APPLICATION NO. 4130 - D. CANTOR and C. HOCHBAUM. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-33 for permission to locate accessory garage for (storage) purposes incidental to the existing single-family residence in an area other than the required rear yard. Location of Property: 8170 Skunk Lane (a/k/a Bay Avenue), Cutchogue, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-104-8-3.1. This parcel is located in an "R-40 Low-Residential" Zone District. 7:32 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a site plan dated September 17, 1992, from Fairweather Brown, Architects and Designers, indicating an existing one-sto~y frame house. The nature of this application is not necessarily addition to this house but the garage in the front yard area. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who would like to be heard? Appearance: Robert Brown, Architect for the Owners. THE CHAIRMAN: Could we have on the survey the size of the garage? I. would rather have you make a mistake than me. MR. BROWN: Just bear with me one second. The garage is 25 feet by 25 feet. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have this problem, Mr. Brown, concerning heights. And the way height is measured to the Page 2 - 10/15/92 ridge. Can you give me a "guesstimate" of what the height is to the ridge? The actual ridge. Our code reads 18 feet. MR. BROWN: It is my understanding the center line --to the ridge is approximately a little less than 22 feet. THE CHAIRMAN: Our main concern with accessory structures is that of having some sort of habitable dwelling or quasi-habitable situation --and that is probably not the proper phrase to use-- on the second floor. Could you tell us what the second story of this proposed structure will be used for? MR. BROWN: It is intended as an office for the owners. THE CHAIRMAN: Will it be insulated and heated On a year-round basis? MR. BROWN: Yes, it will. THE CHAIRMAN: So then it will probably have --and I did look at the plans-- a bathroom, right? MR. BROWN: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Is it a full bathroom with all the amenities that a bathroom has, or is it what we refer to as a half bath? MR. BROWN: As I recall the plan without looking at it, it was a toilet and shower. THE CHAIRMAN: Was there any particular reason for a shower? MR. BROWN: Off the top of my head, it was the client's request. Page 3 10/15/92 THE CHAIRMAN: We had recently had an application similar to this down in Laurel in Edgemere Park and the Board did consider having a lavatory, but that was the extent of the situation. I also can understand the possibility of having insulation and the possibility of heat, particularly being on the water-side with the humidity that exists over there. However, it should be pointed out to you that we will be requesting --if the Board so grants this application-- a covenant indicating that the building only be used for accessory use and it not be used as a habitable dwelling; and that will go along with the land and be recorded in the County Clerk's Office, so that if Mr. Cantor and Mr. Hochbaum intend to sell the property in years to come, -- MR. BROWN: It is Miss Cantor. THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry --that very simply, that covenant will go along with it. MR. BROWN: I don't believe that would be a problem for my clients. They had discussed it with the Building Department, about the allowable and non-allowable uses and (phrase inaudible). THE CHAIRMAN:. In reference to the placement of this structure, is there anything you want to say, why they chose th~s location? MR. BROWN: Well, primarily being waterfront property, obviously, dealing with the DEC,.it would be impossible to locate this garage in what is technically the rear yard. The Page 4 - 10/15/92 siting was based on purely architectural cons£derations, creating a courtyard area between the house and the accessory garage. THE CHAIRMAN: The property is a little ominous looking. It is more extensive than you actually realize when you get behind the hedgerow effect, and it really is a very beautiful piece of property, and I can understand their wanting a place~ not only from the lack of obstructing view situation really. MR. BROWN: As you mentioned, the hedgerow there, I believe there will be little if any impact on the street by the garage and they appreciate their privacy and won't take advantage. THE CHAIRMAN: So it is Miss Cantor and Mr. Hochbaum? MR. BROWN: Yes. THE CHAIR~{AN: The type of heating system that would be used, to your knowledge? MR. BROWN: I believe at the time we are considering gas-fired heating and baseboard. THE CHAIRMAN: And the downstairs or the first story of the garage will be simply for storage of automobiles and boats and so on? MR. BROWN: And boats. THE CHAIRMAN: I don't have any particular questions. I will open it up for the Board. Bob? Page 5 10/15/92 MR. VILLA: Yes, I have a question. Why can't they set this back to meet the minimum setback,say 40 feet? MR. BROWN: Again, it was an esthetic decision as we walked around the property. There are extensive renovations being done to the main house-- MR. VILLA: I can understand it being in the front yard rather than the rear yard, but I can't see it being closer to the street than what the minimum setback should be. MR. BROWN: Well, my clients are out of the country right now, and I can't speak for them. I don't think there would be --if it came down to it-- they would probably be willing to move the garage somewhat. They were hoping to keep it as far from the house as possible. We very carefully staked out the view around the house and tried to keep the garage away from that and allow a certain amount of parking area between the house and the garage. Again, with the hedgerow there, it precludes any visual-- MR. VILLA: The hedgerows can be here today and gone tomorrow, isn't that true? MR. BROWN: True. MR. VILLA: But setbacks, once it is there, once the building is there, it is going to. be there. MR. BROWN: As I said, I imagine they would be amenable to that, if it came down to it. This is obviously where they would like it. Page 6 10/15/92 THE CHAIRMAN: I really don't have further questions. You could see a modification, as Mr. Villa has just mentioned, in reference to distance from the front property line. MR. VILLA: A 15-foot difference. THE CHAIRMAN: I doubt if it would be that much, but we'll discuss it when we get into the deliberation of this particular application; and we thank you. MR. BROWN: They are certainly not going to give up the opportunity of having the garage in the yard over a few feet. THE CHAIRMAN: I don't have any particular objection to the garage in the front yard. You mean in reference to its existance in the front yard or its existance where you are requesting it to be placed? MR. BROWN: What I am saying is, if it were a matter of having to move the garage or not being allowed to have it-- THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. You want the garage. No problem. We will do the best we can for you. We thank you very much. Are there any other questions? We have to go through a ritual and ask if there is anybody in the audience, okay? Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against this application? Any questions from anybody else? I guess that's it. We thank you very much for coming in, sir; and I will make a motion reserving decision until later, closing the hearing and reserving decision. Thank you, Serge. Page 7 - i0/15/92 APPLICATION NO. 4129 ROBERT and RUTH KELLEY Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article XXIII, Section 100-239.4B for permission to construct deck extension includes widening of existing stoop area). The existing stoop is, and proposed deck extension will be, located within 75 feet of an existing bulkhead at or near ordinary high water line. Location of Property: Southold Shores Lot No. 8; 750 Blue Marlin Drive, Greenport (Southold Fire District); County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-57-01-29. This improved parcel is substandard in size and is located in the "R-40" Zone District. 7:42 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: I have a survey produced by Roderick Van Tuyl, P.C., dated June 15, 1992, indicating the existing house as it is presently placed on the lot, and penciled in or penned in is the proposed deck, off the rear of the house, which is within approximately 53 feet plus or minus of the bulkhead. And I have a copy of Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Kelley or Mrs. Kelley, would you like to add something? MR. KELLEY: No, I don't think so. THE CHAIRMAN: I should say you were very gracious in showing me, at a very early hour, on a Saturday morning, your deck; and, of course, I wanted to stay --a great view you have out there. And I can understand why you want one. There is no doubt in my mind. Page 8 - 10/15/92 MR. KELLEY: We just want a place to, you know, put a couple chairs and sit out there, especially this time of year because it is a lot warmer on that side of the house than it is on the north side. That's about all, I guess. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Anybody have any questions of the Kelleys while they are here? Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody who would like to speak against the application? Mr. Kelley, what did you say the approximate height off the lawn would be? MR. KELLEY: Off the lawn? Well, the stoop would be the same height as the stoop is. THE CHAIRMAN: What is that, about 18 inches? MR. KELLEY: And the lawn would be right on the ground. THE CHAIRMAN: I will do the very best I can to entertain this application tonight. We have not discussed it amongst the Board members, and it does not appear to be anybody objecting to it tonight, so if you want to give us a call tomorrow morning-- I am not going to ask for a decision at this point. We will do it after the hearing, so give us a call in the morning, and we hope to have it for you. Hearing no further comment, I make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. Page 9 10/15/92 APPLICATION NO. 4131 - WILLIAM AND GINA MAXWELL. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article IIIA, Section 100-30A.3 for permission to construct deck extension with screened-in enclosure (includes widening of existing deck and step areas). The existing deck and steps are, and the subject extension will be, within 35 feet of the rear property line. The new construction will also exceed the 20% lot coverage limitation of the Bulk Schedule at Section 100-30A.3. Location of Property: 170 Orchard Street, Orient; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-25-3-3.1. This improved parcel is substandard in size and is located in the "R-40" Zone District. 7:46 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a survey produced by Roderick Van Tuyl, P.C., dated March 19, 1991, and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. For the record, this is a unique building; it is an old firehouse, and it really is a truly beautiful building. Is there somebody who would like to be heard? MRS. MAXWELL: I am here, but there is nothing else I would like to add. THE CHAIRMAN: The approximate footage you have written in here as between five and a half and six feet from the rear property line. Is that approximately right? MRS. MAXWELL: Yes. Page 10 - 10/15/92 THE CHAIRMAN: And this is a two-story deck. I assume most of the living area is upstairs. Is that the reason? MRS. MAXWELL: Yes. There is no lower deck, just a second story there. THE CHAIRMAN: And the portion of deck is to the west side that you are anticipating an enclosure over or roof over? MR~ MAXWELL: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Are you ever anticipating closing up this deck in any way? MR. & MRS. MAXWELL: No, just with screens. We have a real mosquito infestation, and you can't sit out at night because you are totally eaten away, so the screens are necessary in order for evening use. And it was so narrow as existing that you couldn't get a table or chairs out there. THE CHAIRMAN: I was there also right after I went to the Kelleys house. In fact, I think I went to Orient first. I didn't attempt to walk on your property. I very simply walked down the path, looked, stated my business to the neighbor, who asked me why I was there, and took a look at the deck and then left, so I didn't do any measurements. What size is the existing deck right now? MR. MAXWELL: Forty by seven. Sorry, 20 by 7. THE CHAIRY~N: So you are increasing it now to i1 feet. MRS. MAXWEELL: I want to go out a little wider because it really is not functional at 7 feet. In fact, it is kind of dangerous because it is so narrow that when you havs Page 11 10/15/92 people out there, people tend to lean on the fence, and I don't like it. I think for it to function properly, I asked for eleven feet. It should be at least ten. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That was my next quest'ion. Assuming we didn't have an agreement at eleven feet, you know, we are going to restrict it conceivably, so that is what you are looking, somewhere --you would like eleven, but ten is what you need. MRS. MAXWELL: Ten is fine, if you would give me ten. I would put a table out there. I'd put chairs, and I can function okay at ten. Anything less than that would be a problem. THE CHAIRMAN: At 41 feet, which is probably the entire width of the existing building, the roofed area is going to be approximately half of that, so that would be twenty, twenty and a half, nineteen and a half, something like that. MR. MAXWELL: Twenty. THE CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any questions? Jim, Bob? Is anyone else at this hearing who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against this application? I don't have any particular problems with it. I will offer it as a resolution provided that it remain open and roofed only to the area that they are requesting. I also' have absolutely no problem with eleven feet based upon this pre,existing .status. I don't think that the rear property line is exactly straight. The building is not perpendicular to the Page 12 10/15/92 property line, so it may be five and a half at one spot and six at the other. THE CLERK: What about lot coverage? THE. CHAIRMAN: Granted as applied. Anybody have any problems with it? All in favor, aye? Thank you very~much. Enjoy your deck. Page 13 - 10/15/92 APPLICATION.NO. 4133 - ANTONE VOLINSKI. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-3 for permission to exceed the 20% lot. coverage limitation for placement of an accessory shed structure and deck addition at the rear of existing dwelling. Location of Property: Westerly side of Middleton Road, Greenport, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-40-5-6. This improved parcel is substandard in size and is located in the "R-40" Zone District. 7:54 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: Section 100-3, I think that is 30. I have a site plan from the rear of the house back, indicating the nature of the two applications which we can combine as one application, and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding property in the area. Are the Volinskis here? Hi, how are you? Is there something you would like to add to the record, Mr. Volinski? MR. VOLINSKI: The record is that I have a two-car garage and haven't been in it for 26 years with my car. THE CHAIRMAN: I have a similar problem. So this plan. you are giving us with the garage first is, which is prefabricated precut plan, is going to be added to the existing two-car garage only at the one side, and you are going to attempt to use that probably for storage and move some of the stuff out of your existing garage. Page 14 - 10/15/92 MR. VOLINSKI: I just bought a new car and want to put it in for the winter. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. The approximate size of the deck is how large? MR. VOLINSKI: Twelve by sixteen. THE CHAIRMAN: And you have no plans of roofing that or enclosing that or making it any more than just something you wan~ to utilize on a seasonal basis? MR. VOLINSKI: Have dinner or something out there. THE CHAIRMAN: Just for the record again, the garage is 14 by --or the proposed addition to the two-car garage-- is 14 by 22? MR. VOLINSKI: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: I don't have any further questions. We have had a substantial amount of these hearings concerning small parcels of property, and it is somewhat difficult to adhere to the existing lot coverage in situations like this, and I understand that. Are there any questions from any Board members? BOARD VOICES: No. THE CHAIRMAN: Just for the record, the lot coverage in the zoning code is 20 per cent; the Volinskis are asking for approximately 25.9% or 5.9% over the existing 20% lot coverage. Does that sound about right to you? MR. VOLINSKI: Five per cent? Yes. I had a --when we moved into the house, they had a patio on the house, and that Page 15 - 10/15/92 was destroyed 26 years ago. I just took it off. Have you got that off yours? And do I get that back? THE CHAIRi~AN: You don't get it back because if there was a slab, it really isn't included in lot coverage. I was just going to say for the record: Allowin~ you variancwes range from 24 to 28 per cent, that is the range that we deal with, okay? For undersized lots in your area, the most recent one that I can remember that we did was on Sigsbee Road in Mattituck, which is across from Magic Fountain, those are 50-foot lots down there; and this person had one 50 by 150-foot lot; and we were talking about 27.9% on that one. We did grant that variance. And the one before that was one over here by the Southold Lumber which the gentleman had requested approximately 32% variance, and that was reduced to about 28, 27.9, 27.6, something of that nature by this Board in its decision. Again, gentlemen, we have an application before us that I don't have any particular problem with. The weather is changing, and I am sure these people would like to get going with their project. The only restriction that I would place on this application would be that the existing --well, two situations-- Number One: That the deck area remain unroofed and just as an accessory to the existing house and that the garage or storage area added to the garage remain for storage purposes only; and I assume the only utility you will have in there is electricity. MR. VOLINSKI: Just a light. Page 16 - 10/15/92 THE CHAIRMAN: I offer that, gentlemen, as a resolution. (Seconded and carried.) Thank you very much for coming in and have a great night, You can tell Mr. Lessard or anyone in the Building Department tomorrow that it was approved from the floor, and he will of course ask for the decision; but we will have the decision for you in a week or so. Page 17 10/15/92 APPLICATION NO. 4132 - SPECTACLE RIDGE, INC. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-33 for permission to locate accessory barn, accessory swimming pool and cabana structure in areas other than the required rear yard, and under Section 100-33A for permission to extend height of barn above 18 feet. Location of Property: 14990 Oregon Road, Cutchogue, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-084-01-02. This property is located in the "Agricultural-Conservation (A-C)" Zone District. 7:58 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and apoplication for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: We have a copy of the original survey, when I say original, I mean encompassing the entire parcel, from Smith and Young or Smith and Jung as it is pronounced, dated August 26, 1992, and it shows a 58-foot lot line change; and we also have some sketches of the barn and a copy of the site plan, which I will give you in one second. The site plan was produced by Garrett Strang, Architect, and it is dated 9/11/92, and indicates the approximate placement of the barn and the'swimming pool and the house and the ornamental plantings in between the house, which is the nature of the site plan, but not necessarily the nature of this application. Mr. Strang, would you like to be heard? Appearance: Garrett Strang, Architect for Applicant. MR. STRANG: Yes, thank you. Good evening. The application makes ~several points that I would just like to Page 18 - 10/15/9.2 reiterate in person here to the Board. The height of the barn at this development site for instance with respect to the house and barn is such that the owner is looking to have his home basically nestled in the (word indistinguishable) and it is a working vineyard. The vineyard is established; it is growing, there is additional grape vines slanted presently. In fact, they just finished or are in the process of finishing harvesting this week, and the process of a working vineyard does generate a certain amount of noise and activity. Their reason for the barn being placed where we show it and are asking the Board to entertain this location, has two purposes: One, essentially to keep all the activity relative to the vineyard use between essentially the road and the house, so that the house becomes and the rear yard maintains its own integrity and privacy for that particular puspose. The second, which is his secondary, is not as critical but is a consideration-- is the barn, the size of the barn is much dictated by its use. Number one, it is intended to be used primarily to house the agricultural machinery, tractors, sprayers, things that are relatively large and cumbersome and need to be housed indoors throughout the course of the year, especially in the winter months; and on the residential side of the barn, I will say the side that faces south closest to the house, they are going to use that for garage purposes basically, to house their own personal vehicles when they are at the house. So the barn, because of the dual purpose, will be~ Page 19 - 10/15/92 quite large. It will then act as --which is the secondary purpose here-- act as somewhat of a wind buffer or barrier in the winter months from the northwest winds that come off the Sound at great velocities, so it ~s a secondary consideration here. The orientation again of the house is placed and the barn in the development is placed in a section of this vineyard that they found to be non-productive because of the lay of the land. It has a little bit of a hollow in it. It holds water a little bit more than it should, so it is not good for the grapes to grow properly, so they have elected to use this particular spot and take the grapes that are there out since it is not producing anyway, and use it for the development purposes of the house and barn. The orientation of the house is such that it will take full advantage of the south and southwesterly breezes in the summer .months as well as the south exposure in the winter months with passive solar gain and, in addition, it also will overlook the majority of the vineyard and the stand of trees that are off to the southwest, which is sort of a nice backdrop in general. Going further with this application, with respect to the pool and cabana, it is really located in the only practical location with the siting of the house, to allow it to be totally visible from the living areas of the house at all times. The rear yard requirements and the like as far as setbacks of the pool, we have maintained that; but because we have kept the house as far back as we have, it lends itself to being by definition in the side yard as opposed to the rear yard. Again,.. Page 20 10/15/92 it is in the middle of a nineteen-acre piece --it is not even in the middle-- it is in a section the 19-acre piece that is totally surrounded by the remainder of the property which is planted in grapes and will continue to be as such. For the record, or so that the Board is aware of it, my site plan does sort of superimpose a two-acre setoff, which is the intention of my client to do because of the fact that he is going to be, is in the process of, and I understand will be completed shortly, transferring the development rights or selling I should say the development rights to the Town of Southold for the remaining acreage other than this two acres that is set off for his residential purposes. So the Town of Southold will be picking up the development acres on that development. THE CHAIRMAN: Is the corporation the title owner of the property? MR. STRANG: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Garrett, is there any time that this barn would be used for a vineyard and would be required to have a special exception from this Board for the operating of a winery? MR. STRANG: No. We discussed this at length. Their intention is with respect to if they ever do a winery. Right now they have 19 acres, but ultimately I think they will have 22 acres of grape planted. They are selling the grape off in bulk to other wineries. If at some point in time they pursue additional land, which they have been looking into between this Page 21 - 10/15/92 parcel and County road 48, land to the south, if that works out, they would purchase that and will extend the vineyard in to that land and develop a winery on County road 48, not on this piece. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. The reason why I asked that question is because, as you know, we have granted maybe six or eight special exceptions for wineries, and this is the first one that is in a purely agricultural district, not necessarily either on Route 25 or on County Road 48, so it is something new for us, if that was anticipated. MR. STRANG: This is not anticipated in any way. We have discussed the use as a winery; the barn isn't big enough to function as a winery. THE CHAIRMAN: What is the approximate height of the barn? TO the ridge area, if you can give us that. MR. STRANG: I dropped off earlier today and hope I have the sketch -- a conceptual elevation view which dictates the height of the barn. Again the barn is of substance and size. It is approximately 50 by 56 feet so that, in and of itself, dictates the height we find. There is a second floor. THE CHAIRMAN: The height, as it is calculated by the Building Department, would be what, half of the nine, about 24 feet? MR. STRANG: 'The height, as calculated by the BUilding Department, as I understand it, is midway between or an average between the ridge and the eave. With this type of gambrel roof design, I am not sure what they would consider the eave. If Page 22 - 10/15/92 they consider it a 10-foot elevation, let's say the bottom of the eave we are talking about splitting the 19-foot difference, so we are talking about 10 and 8 or 18 and a half let's say; 18, 18 and a half would be the median building height. THE CHAIRMAN: What is the purpose of the second story of the barn? MR. STRANG: The second story of the barn is to serve several purposes. One, again, the barn being the size that it is, and that again is dictated by its use, agricultural use as well as garage of the house's cars --has a considerable amount of extra square footage that they want to try to take advantage of on the second floor. It is there. They want to try to take advantage of that space, so our discussioDs have been that that second floor area will house guest quarters for guests, as opposed to making the main house bigger. They already have the barn and they have the space, and they decided that they would rather have guests quarters in the second floor of the barn as opposed to in the main house. That way they could keep the main house a little smaller in size. THE CHAIRMAN: How about we do th~s-- how about if this Board is so interested in this application and does consider granting it, that we grant it with a provision that this applicant come back with a variance on this basis because this is something that we don't normally get into. What they are in effect asking for is a two-family house, okay, on two acres; and as you know, our Code requires 4 acres as a special Page 23 10/15/92 exception. I don't really want to cloud this issue of the second story of this barn nor do I want to hold up their project at this point, and it is just something that we --as you know-- don't normally grant.. Actually, it is out of our purview because they really need 4 acres to do that and it would be attached. MR. STRANG: Even though, in fact, the guest quarters would be considered a second residence inasmuch as it is sleeping accommodations as opposed to being in the main house in the area up over the barn. ~HE CHAIRMAN: I have only seen one of these, I'll be honest with you -- in the tenure I have been on this Board and that is twelve years-- and that was an e~isting barn on Nassau Point on Vanston Road which was --That thing had about 12 bedrooms upstairs, but it was basically the maids' and butlers' quarters.to the main estate; and that was culled out of a bigger parcel. And that was the only thing that I ever remember entertaining and we did not entertain anything concerning the dwelling itself, which the barn became the dwelling when it became culled out of an existing lot. I just don't want to hold up this application to cause you or your client or anybody else a problem based upon an interpretation that you know stands with this Board. We can deal with that interpretation sometime in the future; so in dealing with this, I am .going to suggest that we state that the barn at this time is going to be used for storage purposes, and any change in that will require an ~ PaVe 24 - t0/15/92 additional application to this Board. .If that is to everybody's wellbeing here because we could be tied up in interpretation for four months on this thing. THE CLERK: There was nothing mentioned about it in the application either. THE CHAIRMAN: I appreciate your frankness concerning this, and to be honest with you, Garrett, you have always been really straight with us and we appreciate that, and it is the way to be all the way down the line because it never causes any problems later. MR. STRANG: It is the reason we are pursuing it this way, to make sure that everybody and it stands to reason, and I am showing a 2-acre setoff even though it doesn't exist, and may not for another year or two -- it is the intention to have that two-acre piece. . THE CHAIR/~AN: The reason why I am saying it really would require four acres just off the top of my head at this point -- even though there may be only one kitchen or a kitchen and a butler's pantry, in the main house -- Sleeping quarters do denote another dwelling area in my opinion, but when we get to a true interpretation there may be something that we will have to yield on this. And there may be a requirement change in the Code, to be honest with you. I have no idea at this point, but I think that is the way we are going to have to deal with it at this point rather than cloud the issue. All right, I thank you. Let's see if there are any questions from anybody else. Page 25 - 10/15/92 Gentlemen, questions (addressing Board)? Anybody have any objections to this barn being in that area? UNIDENTIFIED BOARD MEMBER: I just want it distinctthat there can be no retail sales on this barn. MR. STRANG: That is not a problem. SAME UNIDENTIFIED BOARD MEMBER: I know what you said, Garrett, but I think it should be spelled out --You and I and the owners might not be around to interpret this thing. MR. STRANG: I understand. To the best of my understanding with the owner, that is never their intention. Since they are residents and they have no intention of going that way. THE CHAIRMAN: Right. Is there, anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? · (There was no response.) . THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody who would like to speak against the application? Hearing no further comment, I make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. Thank you very much for coming in. MR. STRANG: Thank you. Page 26 - 10/15/92 APPLICATION NO. 4128 - BREWER'S YACHT YARD AT GREENPORT, INC. Special Exception under Article XII, Section 100-121B(1) for permission to establish accessory food services for its marina patrons as an amenity. Location of Property: 2530 Manhanset Avenue and the westerly side of Sandy Beach Road, Greenport, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-43-3-2. This 9.5+- acre parcel is improved and is located in the "Marine-II" Zone District. (8:15 p.m.) (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this really beautiful piece of property. The nature of this application is a snack bar area to be placed somewhat closer to the water than it is t9 Manhanset Avenue in a new building, which would also house a pool, and it is an application that is somewhat difficult to visualize. However, there were stakes there when we did look at it. It appears that its closest point to any bulkhead area is approximately 101 feet 8 inches; and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map again indicating this property. Who would like to be heard? Appearance: James Siesfeld, Associate of Daniel S. Natchez & Associates, Inc.,for Applicant MR. SIESFELD: Well, I am James Siesfeld of Daniel S. Natchez and Associates, speaking for Brewer's Yacht Yard. .This organization has been undergoing a master-plan for developing this site since they purchased it. As part of that original Page 27 - 10/15/92 plan they excavated in water space to increase their slips, the number of slips. Part of that site plan included the placement of the swimming pool in an area that is now deemed inacceptable by the New York State DEC, and in place of the swimming pool at that site we sought a snack-bar, and the site plans subsequently expired and the code was changed; so we are back in front of you seeking special exception approval for a snack bar at that location we are presenting. That particular site is the result of over twelve months of going back and forth between regulatory agencies, Department of Conservation, Army Corps of Engineers, and several agencies of the Town. We do understand that you have asked the Planning Board to answer a few specific questions. THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have a copy of that? MR. SIESFELD: I have a copy. We do know that they have answered it to the best that they, at this point in time, can and ! guess what we would like to be able to do at this time is elaborate on this questions that have been asked while we are here, that we can answer for you. THE CHAIRMAN: Just let me ask a couple questions before you get into that. The snack bar is a totally enclosed building? MR, SIESFELD: Yes~ that is correct. THE CHAIRMAN: Approximately 30 feet 5 inches by 36 feet 6 inches or thereabouts? MR. SIESFELD: That is the size of the building. Page 28 - 10/15/92 MR. ACEBO: My name is Mike Acebo. I am the manager of Brewer's out here. The building is a pre-existing building that we are asking to move to that location. It was utilized as the home of the Eastern Sailing Club. It functioned as a club facility for parties, post-race activities, lunch and dinner functions for the club members, and it has been in existence I think for about twenty years. THE CHAIRMAN: It is a one-story building? MR. ACEBO: One story. It originally was a house which was a story and a half building. The upstairs has never been used and we would make no attempt to use that upstairs. THE CHAIRMAN: Is there ever an intention of enclosing the swimming pool area? MR. ACEBO: No. THE CHAIRMAN: I don't have any -- any immediate questions from anybody at this point until we get into what we requested the Planning Board. MR. VILLA: You asked the question about the pool. The snack bar is going to be. seasonal as well, right? MR. ACEBO: Yes; the snack bar building, I see it being utilized during the winter months as a meeting place for --we have sailmakers that come into the yard. We invite our customers to come in and sit down with a sailmaker or with an engine manufacturer or an air-conditioning company, and we have seminars discussing repair and maintenance of boats. I would see that building being utilized during the winter months as a Page 29 - 10/15/92 meeting place for a small group of boat owners to become more informed about the operation of their boats; so as a snack bar, yes, seasonal. As a useful building, I say year-round. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. When it is being used year-round probably the nature of the function of the building and I am asking you and answering the question at the same time --would be hot coffee, hot tea, something of that nature? MR. ACEBO: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: The greatest extent of the building in the summertime would be what, the use of a gas-grill for the purposes of preparing hot dogs, hamburgers --to what extent? MR. ACEBO: Well, I would like to bring someone in to rent the building in the summer and run it as a snack bar, as a legitimate snack bar. The purpose for that is --our organization has 15 boatyards in Rhode Island, Maine, Massachusetts, New York and Connecticut. We have a thing called a preferred customer card if you are a member of our organization, you are allowed to travel to other boatyards to get free overnight stay or reduced rate stay, so we have people traveling to our marina in the Greenport-Southold area from Connecticut, other parts of New York, Rhode Island. When those boats come, we have found it is very difficult to get those people who arrive by boat in to Greenport. We are very close to Greenport, but we are very far away, especially when you consider the walking distance. You have got to go around top of Sterling Basin --It is about two miles. We have purchased Page 30 10/15/92 bicycles which we loan these people at no cost. We Will purchase a van which we will utilize as a courtesy van; but there is nowhere to get a cup of~coffee, There is nowhere to get a sandwich at lunch time; we have a soda machine; but you can't get a glass of lemonade, ice tea. It's very restricted, our piece of property. Sterling Harbor Marina next door has a fullblown Italian restaurant at this time. I have never eaten there. I have been told it is very nice; but it is also very costly. A lot of my clients can't afford to eat there, and they proceed to go to town, so we are looking for a --again, I use the word snack bar facility where someone can get a hamburger, maybe a clam or some fish sandwiches, some chips, something like that. I don't know what a person will need to cook that stuff. I am not a chef. I run a boatyard. THE CHAIRMAN: Any idea in reference to total occupancy of'that building? MR. ACEBO: I think the Health Department, the Fire Department, you people, the Building Department, would probably make the decision on that. I think there is about 400 Square feet inside the building. There is some deck area around the building before you get to the pool. I don't k~ow what the occupancy loads are allowable for this size building and deck we have. I don't foresee it handling hundreds of people. We do have the occasion to have some functions where we might have twenty boats.come into the marina. Twenty boats times three people per boat, we have run in the yard parties of sixty Page 31 - 10/15/92 people, where we have catered this from the outside. (Name indistinguishable) has come down and had a pig-roast. We have a grassy area where we wanted to put the pool and clubhouse but have a volleyball court now. We would probably have that function out there; it is closer the water and we could set picnic tables up. But I just don't know what the occupancy rules are, what the allowable loads are. And we would be happy to abide with whatever is required. THE CHAIRMAN: What about the sale of alcoholic beverages? MR. ACEBO: RiGht at this time I don't see that as a need in our facility° I am not sure if that is allowable within the code of the Town, and I would hate to see that disallowe~ because we as a group decided to disallow it if it is allowable under the code. THE CHAIRMAN: There is basically two types of licenses --a beer and wine license and a full-blown liquor license. This looks very similar to me, and I must be in a comparing mood tonight-- for some reason and I apologize. But it looks very similar to me to what Star Island Marina has in Montauk next to their swimming pool. Interesting. MR. ACEBO: I have never been there. THE CHAIRMAN: I don't have any further questions. Why don't we let your cohort here continue with his? Sorry we got involved in that. Page 32 - 10/15/92 MR. SIESFELD: It is okay. He runs the yard and can draw pictures for you. I guess right now if you have any further questions that you asked.the Planning Board, that we might be able to answer for you. THE CHAIRMAN: No, I think they answered it. We have here a rather unique situation in that we have a fairly large piece of property so I don't see that there is a problem with parking. And that is not necessarily a concern. Is there ever a time that this will be paved any more than the bluestone? MR. SIESFELD: Not likely. There are several programs being held that will be implemented through the New York State Department of State that are designed for curtailing non-point sources of pollution of waters of the State of New York and they are grounded against any type of impervious surface next to the water. Quite frankly, they would like to see marinas a thousand feet from the water. In answer to your question, I don't think that we would be allowed to by other regulatory agencies, to pave over it all. ~THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have a problem with people parking at all, ~with people parking haphazardly in that parking lot? You know, being the fact that there are no real lines or no specific location areas? MR. SIESFELD: No, I would say the people are very self-regulatory when it comes to parking; they do a very good job. But the parking areas that are shown on the plans have never been utilized. There is parking areas up by the fence on Page 33 - 10/15/92 Manhanset that I have never seen a car up there and never will because we have again nine and a half acres of land. That holds an awful lot of vehicles. THE CHAIRMAN: This is not an overkill situation; but it just raises one more question. I have not had the luxury of seeing you actually taking all these boats out of the water and the storage of these boats. Does the storage of these boats infringe upon the parking area at all? When the boats are totally hauled, the ones that you do haul? MR. SIESFELD: It infringes on the whole parking plan in that we store about three hundred boats in the yard, but those boats are placed in the yard with four machines. We have a hydraulic trailer which requires a very large turning radius. We have a 70-ton travel lift which the maximum width is about 28 feet wide. So we have aisles throughout the yard which are approximately 30 feet wide to run the travel lift and are able to pick up any boat any time during the spring. We launch on schedule, not on location. So we have a lot of parking area available. Also, due to the nature of the machine, they are wide machines and when the boat is dropped off, there is a very large space between the boats for parking of vehicles for people who work on their boats. They can park right next to their boat when they are working on it. THE CHAIRMAN: So you would probably invite us to come down and look at this once you have all the boats off. Page 34 - 10/15/92 MR. ACEBO: There is a picture on the wall in the office that shows the last winter. It shows the boat layout during the winter; so if you come in the office, you can see the positioning now. We have started several areas of boat rows now. There is approximately a hundred boats in the yard at this time. So if you were to come down now, you would see the way the layout is working from this point east-to-west. THE CHAIRMAN: Sorry, Bob. MR. VILLA: I will take your disposal at this point in time. THE CHAIRMAN: I don~t have any specific questions. I think, although the memo was relatively general~ it did answer primarily most of the questions that we were looking to. We can see in the future additional buildings, as shown on the plan? MR. ACEBO: Additional storage building, and the removal o.f the mash that you saw at the metal building, right close to the bulkhead. THE CHAIRMAN: So I think what we will do is, we will come down during the winter when you have all the boats stored and get that whole idea of it, the way you have the situation going. In future applications, we will be able to deal with it on that basis, and I won't ask these questions, right? MR. ACEBO: Fine. MR. SEISFELD: Mike will give yo~ a guided tour. THE CHAIRMAN: Any questions, Bob, Jim, Serge? (No response from Board. Page 35 10/15/92 THE CHAIRMAN: I think that further answers whatever clarifications we need. My only point is that on the issue of the liquor license, you may be precluded from having one because it is in a wood-frame building. I am just throwing that out to you. I think that the ABC law has required that buildings have to be cement block now. MR. SEISFELD: And that would preclude the liquor license, and I would not be offended by that at all. THE CHAIRMAN: You may get a beer and wine, but you are not going to get-- MR. SEISFELD: Seasonal beer and wine are usually pretty easy to get. THE CHAIRMAN: We thank you gentlemen for coming in. There is not a heck of a lot of other people in the-- MR. SEISFELD (interposing): I was going to wait and see if yo~ were going to ask that question. THE CHAIRMAN: I still have to ask it because you see we are-- MR. SEISFELD: Who is the young lady there? THE CHAIRMAN: My daughter. She needed it for college credit. She missed the park district meeting, so she came down to the Zoning Board meeting. Seeing no further questions from anyone in the audience, I will make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. All in favor? Are you proposing this building this year, or are you thinking this spring? Page 36 - 10/15/92 MR. ACEBO: I am very much hoping for approval so that I can get it done by next summer and have the swimming pool in by next summer. I will and I intend to and I hope'to move that building from the location it is in now to where the swimming pool will be built. We will move it like a boat, drag it across the yard and set it there; and when we get the permits we will approach Victor for the permits and put the foundation up and put the building in place. I have to move the building before we put boats in the wqy. Once we get all the boats in the yard, we won't be able to drag a building like that of that size through the yard so I anticipate moving that building fairly soon, into that area of stakes. Then we will leave that area without any boats in it and can do the construction hopefully this winter. THE CHAIRMAN: Great. We hope to have a decision for you very shortly. (End of Hearing)