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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-09/10/1992 HEARINGPUBLIC HEARING BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TOWN OF SOUTHOLD September 10, 1992 (7:30 p.mo Hearing) Present : HON. GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, Chairman SERGE DOYEN, Jr. JAMES DINIZIO, Jr. ROBERT A. VILLA LINDA KOWALSKI, Secretary-Clerk to Board £ APPLICATION NO.4122 - ROBERT H. AND KAT~RYN B. DEXTER Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article XXIX, Section 100-239.4B, for permission to coinstruct deck addition within 75 feet of the bulkhead. Location of Property: 8380 Great Peconic Bay Boulevard, Laurel, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-126-11-20. Subject premises is substandard in size and is located in the R-40 Zone District. 7:35 p.m. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a sketch of a survey indicating proposed deck is sixteen by forty-- actually, it is 16.0 feet and zero inches and by 40.3 inches. The closest point to the bulkhead is 35.2 feet or 35 feet two inches; and I have a copy of the Suffolk County tax map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody here representing the Dexterds? Appearance: Mr. Robert Dexter, Applicant pro Se THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anything you would like to add to the specific application, sir? MR. DEXTER: Well, I think I covered most of the points. Actually, we are thirty-five feet from the upper deck, but there's another twelve feet to the lower deck. The deck will be set back from the water; it is about 11 feet or 12 feet above wauer line. There are some bushes there along the top of the bulkhead, so it is not going to be readily visible from the 9/10/92 3 water. You have to be 'way out in the water in a boat to see it; and there are, on the one side on the west of us there is a pool in the front yard and a fence that goes down to the upper bulkhead, so I don't think we are providing any kind of obstruction for the people on either side of us, and it would certainly add to the use and the value of the property if we can have permission to put this deck as indicated on the south side of the house. THE CHAIRMAN: Now it is my understanding that the front porch was a screened-in front porch at one time and you are adding this'on to the front of the house? MiR. DEXTER: That is correct. THE CHAIRMAN: However, the only difference will be that the deck will not be fenced --excuse me-- moved in any way? MR. DEXTER: No, the deck will not be moved. THE CHAIRMAN: It will remain open. How high will the deck be actually above grade? MR. DEXTER: At the house it is about a foot. At the other end it is about two feet. THE CHAIRMAN: And you are in the reconstruction mode right now with this. This is what you are going to be dealing with? MR. DEXTER: Getting ready once we are past this hearing, then we'll be ready to apply for our building permit. THE CHAIRMAN: Are you contract-vendee or do you own the property? 9/t0/92 4 MR. DEXTER: We own the property. THE CHAIRMAN: Did you own it at the time of the fire? ~CR. DEXTER: No, we didn't. We bought it after the fire. We did go the the DEC and got their sign-off, before we purchased the property. THE CHAIRMAN: I see. Thank you very much. Does anybody have any questions of Mr. Dexter? We will see what develops. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Hearing no further questions, I make a motion to close the hearing and reserving decision until later. 7:40 p m. APPLICATION NO. 4124 - DR. AND MRS. CARL A. SORANNO Variances to the Zoning Ordinance, Article XXIII, Section 100-239.4A(1) for approval of deck addition within 100 feet of the top of the L.Io Sound bluff or bank, and Article III, Section 100-33 for approval of accessory storage building located in the front yard area, 400+ feet from the front property line. Location of Property: 31059 County Road 48, Peconic NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-73-4-3. THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a survey,-Young & Young, dated August 15, 1985, indicating the approximate placement of the dwelling on this property and the movement of the "storage building" from the extreme rear yard to mid front yard or so, and a copy of the Suffolk County tax map indicating this and the other surrounding properties in the area. Is there someone here representing the Sorannos? Appearance: Mrs. Dorothy Soranno and Dr. Carl A. Soranno, Applicants Pro Se THE CHAIRMAN: I have to say for the record, I have never been to a more beautiful piece o~ property. It is absolutely gorgeous. Is there anything you would like to add to the record for us? MRS. SORANNO: I think the record is quite complete. I don't really know what else you would want to know, other than why we built it. We sent and application to the officers of Southold for a building permit for the deck. When we did that, 9/10/92 6 we were told we had to go to the DEC'for a letter of non-jurisdiction, so when we went there, they told us that they would give us a letter of non-jurisdiction if we had a topographical map. We came back to get a copy of the topographical map, and then were told by the DEC that we needed a new or updated topographical map; and to get that topographical map we were also told it would cost us several thousand dollars. Well, that was a problem; so we decided to withdraw the application and not do anything. But we ran into difficulty because we have three aged parents, two in wheelchairs and one on the walker; and before that deck was built, you had to basically if you are in good shape, you had to run down the hill and then go up the steps, which was getting to be impossible. So we really were under pressure to make an entry, to get in and out of the house and around it for the rest of us. THE CHAIRMAN: MRS. SORANNO: What about the storage building.? Now the storage building, originally, before we moved onto the property, was on the neighbor's property. I guess over the years they just put it where they wanted. So before we bought the property, it was moved from the woods to that position you see there. After a while our neighbors suggested that maybe we should move it because it would be in their way, their view when they built their new house and they had shown us the staking out of where they were going to build the house and the plans for it. So we asked if they knew of anyone who could help us move it? And they didn't 9/10y92 7 SO we then showed them --we thought about it-- and we showed them where we thought we could move it and still be within our setback boundaries. And she said that's a pretty good idea, that's good, so we did go out, pay for a mover to bring it up on the hill; and it stood there. Lo and behold, after a couple years, they ended up building their house behind it and we wanted for a little bit of extra space because it is a tiny house that we have and we thought if we have that building usableto use as a bedroom for us when others would come in the family, that would expand the house. So we embarked upon refurbishing it, never dreaming that the front yard was behind the house; and we took upon refurbishing it when we were told we wouid have to do more to (inaudible due to coughs where we are. THE CHAIRMAN: it because it was heavily damaged by into microphone). And that's about Okay. That answers my question why there was so much glass in it because usually there isn't so much glass in an accessory structure. I just wanted to mention to you that we are not empowered to allow you to use that for sleeping quarters, okay. The only thing that we could allow you to do is have that and have it exist in the front yard area, and it seems ridiculous to call it the front yard area because it is probably a thousand feet from the nearest road but needless to say, it is in the front yard area for only storage purposes. That is the covenant that would have to be on it, and that's all that we can do; we do not grant sleeping quarters in accessory 9/10/92 8 buildings. We have never done it and are not going to start now. That's all I can tell you, Mrs. Soranno. MRS. 'SORANNO: Is there another means, another approach to say non-accessory building? A guest-house? THE CHAIRMAN: If you subdivided your property and you had a separate lot and you wanted to build a cottage, so to speak, and continued to move this --t know there is a vast hill in back of this because I climbed the hill to come up to the property-- Then you could build a 850-square-foot cottage on another piece of property if the Planning Board so indicated and you had the acreage to do so; that would be the only avenue that you would have. MRS. SORANNO: I see. THE CHAIRMAN: You could, of course, add on to the house. From the rear, hopefully. When I say the rear, I mean the front yard area really where the deck is that you just added on. That's all, the only avenue you have. We have no vehicle to allow you to utilize that building. Is there any question you have, Doctor, concerning this? DR. SORANNO: I guess the ordinances speak for themselves. We do have a situation where we are so close to the bluff --beoause of the location of the house, we thought the way it was going to be used if we had this building available just in the situation where our families come out (inaudible with coughs into microphone). It is just a summer residence anyway° We are not renting it. 9/iQ/92 9 THE CHAIRMAN: The maximum we have ever granted in this Board is some limited heating for somebody who wanted to use it for storage of books and they didn't want the books to deteriorate, we have allowed one, a single lavatory with no shower, for somebody who wanted to utilize it for the purpose of a workshop on their automobiles or whatever the case might be and the building was somewhat detached from the house so that they didn't continually have to run up to the house and wash their hands and use the lavatory facilities, or a beach cabana t!rpe of situation where the doors on the cabana actually open to the outside in all situations, so there were no interior doors opening to the interior of the building itself. And that is pretty much the max that we have ever seen here. DR. SORANNO: That is about as much as we can say because being we have the main house with just the two of us; but we do have those situations where my son with his kids would come over, and then my daughter, who is getting married, comes in with her boyfriend. Then somebody else comes in and next thing you know we are out on the lawn. THE CHAIRMAN: I want you to know the decision from this Board is going to read, is going to be restrictive in that area, in that way. Are you planning on any utilities in the building? Other than electricity? MRS. SORANNO: No. DR. SORANNO: MRS. SORANNO: THE CHAIRMAN: You mean like sink? We would like a sink. We can continue utilities. We all misconstrue what those are, and my interpretation of utility is somewhat different from other people's, okay. Anything that causes to start a light or, you know, any type of water utility~ any type of heat utility, and so on and so forth. DR. SORANNO: Just from the main house though. THE CHAIRMAN: It wouldn't make any difference where You are only talking about electricity at this it came from. time? MRS. SORANNO: THE CHAIRMAN: MRS. SORANNO: DR. SORANNO: THE CHAItLMAN: Electricity. --and water. Water for the purposes of a Yes. A lavatory? We'll talk about that. sink? Any questions? MR. VILLA: I have a question. I heard Mrs. Soranno talk about her application to DEC. What I would like to know is, why did you proceed to build this deck and this without permits? MRS. SORANNO: Well, sir, I guess we shouldn't have; but we did because we were in a problem and one of the old folks had just gotten into a wheelchair. He came out spent time and it was really very hard. There were times we were lifting it over the deck, and you couldn't do it. So we went ahead. MR. VILLA: I get upset sitting here and having to rule on applications that are accomplished already, you know. When you have a permit MRS. SORANNO: quite a problem. system, it is a little upsetting. That problem with the new map was THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any other questions from Board members? Anybody else who would like to speak in favor of the application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Hearing no further comments, I make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later. DR. SORANNO: Because of the devastation that occurred on that hill, we have started already planting that hill and we have a very nice relationship with our new neighbors next to us who have bought that house to the west, and we are planning on refurbishing those trees and building a (word inaudible) there. They are a very nice couple and we do have cooperation with them in redoing that hill. THE CHAIRMAN: Right. DR. SORANNO: So that is in our plans. THE CHAIRMAN:. We do thank you for coming in, and we thank you for your frankness concerning this application, and we will do the best we can. Thank you. 9/10/92 12 7:52 p.m. APPLICATION NO. 4125 GREGORY POULOS. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article XXIII, Section 100-239.4A(1) for permission to construct deck addition (to existing deck area), all of which is located within 100 feet of the Long Island Sound bluff or bank. This parcel is substandard in size and is located in the R-40 Zone District. Location of Property: 135 Soundview Road, Orient, NY; also known as Lot ~45 on the Map of "Orient by the Sea, Section Two"; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-15-3-3. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record. ) THE CHAIRMAN: I have copy of a survey dated April 11, 1980, indicating two-story frame home in a rather irregular shape toward the water. In fact, it is one, two, three, four, five, six-sided, and a copy of Suffolk County tax map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody for the Poulos' who would like to speak? Appearance: MR. DIBBLE: How do you do, sir? Blair Dibble, Builder, Agent for Applicant My name is Blair Dibble. THE CHAIRMAN: What would you like to add to the application? MR. DIBBLE: I have some pictures here (showing Board). this? THE CHAIRMAN: What would you like to point out on ~/10/92 13 MR. DIBBLE: If you look at the pictures, you will see on the one Side there is a sliding glass door. And on the outside the fireplace you have what is a barbecue. Those probably were originally, i believe, when the house was built were for a deck which was never constructed. You will see there is a door on the other side as well that could use a deck. THE CHAIRMAN: This deck is basically going to wrap around all six sides is the situation? MR. DIBBLE: Except for the Bilco door, five sides. THE CHAIRMAN: Five, right. And it is going to be approximately 14 feet in depth? MR. DIBBLE: Twelve feet depth, and by the time we finish with the steps, which will be (inaudible) wide or so. THE CHAIRMAN: So only an the two angles that actually face the water --I know.they really all face the water-- straight or perpendicular? MR. DIBBLE: Those sides will be 14 feet. That is where the steps will be. THE CHAIRMAN: Now the elevation above grade is approximately just underneath that window, so that is going to be about two and a half feet or so? MR. DIBBLE: We are actually going to make it a step down, so you will have probably 18 inches elevation. THE CHAIRF~kN: And again this will not be roofed in any way? MR. DIBBLE: No. 9/10/92 14 THE CHAIRMAN: It is just going to have a normal railing which is required on a portion? MR. DIBBLE: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: While you are up here, Mr. Dibble, does anyone have any questions on this? Bob? I guess not. Thank you. We can keep these pictures? MR. DIBBLE: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anybody else who wishes to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to' speak against the application? Seeing no hands, I make a motion closing. We hope to have a decision for you very shortly because I am sure you want to continue with the construction of the deck, too. All right, thank you. Give us a call tomorrow to see if we get through it tonight. 7:55 p.m. APPLICATIO~ NO. Variance to the 4126 ~ DONALD AND JEANlqE KURZ. Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-33 for permission to build new, enlarged garage as an accessory in the front yard area (replacing existing garage which was approved under ZBA Appl.No. 2332 on 8/29/77)° Location of Property: 725 Terry Lane (just north of the Southold Park District), Southold, NY; also referred to as Lot ~5 as approved by the Town of Southold; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-65-1-17. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: I have copy of plan for the deck and new garage, rather. I am stuck on decks tonight. I apologize. 9/10/92 I am looking for the Appearance: survey. Would you like to be heard, sir? Dan Ross, Esq., Attorney for Applicant Ron Morizzo, Builder MR. ROSS: Dan Ross, on behalf of the application. I have some pictures here I would like to hand up% This is an application for an accessory structure in the front yard. The property is located on Terry Lane. It borders on Southold Bay. Front yard is on the road; backyard is on the bay. There is no accessory structure between the existing residence and the bay at this time. There is an existing structure where is proposed structure is going to be. There is an existing 10 by 12 foot structure; the proposed structure is 24 by 36 feet. The proposed structure will be no closer to the side line or on Terry Lane than the existing structure. There is hardship and difficulty in putting the accessory structure in the backyard because the property is banked somewhat severely. That would create a problem. There are other houses in the neighborhood as you can see from the pictures, with garages in the front yard and they have a large hedge on this particular property that would block it. THE CHAIRMAN: The doors are going to open to the west side, I see. MR. ROSS: Yes, I believe so. THE CHAIRMAN: Approximate height is to the max of about 18, is that right, Bob? They take the average in determining that, so that is my question. 9/ 0/92 ~. ROSS: The builder, Ron Morizzo, is here and may be able to help us with that. MR. MORIZZO: Eighteen to 20 feet. MEMBER VILLA: How do you figure that? You got a 12 on 12 pitch on the roof and you got 24-foot width, and you got a foot overhang on both sides. That is~26, so if you come in 13, you go up 13. I don't see how you get maximum of what you are saying. Your pitch on your roof is a forty-five; it is 12 and 12; so if you come in 13 feet, you are going up 13 fret. 13 and 8 is 21, plus the header is 22. THE CHAIRMAN: So you are saying 22 feet to the ridge is what you want to build? MR. MORIZZO: Right. THE CHAIRMAN: What else would you like to say? MR. ROSS: From an environmental standpoint, I think the accessory structure is better located in the proposed location thanthe backyard. THE CHAIRMAN: In reference to utility, and, again, we are talking only electricity? MR. ROSS: That is what I understand. THE CHAIRMAN: Only electricity, Ron? MR. MORIZZO: Well, yeah, there.was going to be lights. storage purposes? MR. ROSS: MR. ROSS: That is it. THE CHAIRMAN: And the upstairs is only used for As well as the downstairs premises? Right. 9 0/92 THE CHAIRMAN: In philosophy, I don't have a problem with these particular applications. We recently granted one on Deep Hole Drive in Mattituck in a similar type location. Unfortunately, the lot was a little bit smaller, and I went back on Saturday, when I was looking'at this parcel, and it was tastefully done and I hope that the hedges would be left there also on this one to allow for the privacy factor, and so on and so forth. MR. ROSS: That is, as I understand, the intention. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Ross. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Any further questions, Gentlemen? MR. VILLA: W'nat is the second floor going to be used for? THE CHAIRMAN: They said storage purposes. No problem. Hearing no further comment, I make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. 8:03 p.m. APPLICATION NO. 4121 - FLOYD KING and ISLAND'S END GOLF CLUB. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-33 for permission to locate accessory equipment-storage building in the front yard area. Location of Property: 3365 Main Road, Greenport, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-35-2-1. This property is zoned R-80 Residential. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: to speak regarding this? ERNEST RICHTER Who would like to be the first person (no address supplied record): I would like to speak for the golf course and the Board of Directors. I have had a request from your office to give the location in the heart of the big barn why it would not be feasible. Proposed location of the new work-barn and storage facility. The maintenance for the golf course is currently operating out of an existing barn located in the southwest section of the golf course property. The proposed structure is needed to store additional machinery that has been accumulated over the years. This equipment currently is being outside in an unsightly manner. The proposed location of the new building would allow existing work area to remain the same. The area has always been south of the existing barn and away from the playing area of the golf course, pertaining to the proposed location of the new building north of the existing barn, it would create a hazard to the playing area of the golf course. The area between the two buildings would leave to remain for future maintenance. Once 9/10/92 19 the building is set, it will be necessary to relocate the e~t~ng road very close to the first green. This road is necessary to remain to allow players from the eighth green to reach the ninth tee without passing through the work area. This proposed location would also open the work area; machinery would be constantly moving in and out. This additional work space would be very close to the eighth green and would be considered unsightly as well as noisy. The beautification of our golf course is a major concern and never-ending goal. Wewould appreciate any consideration you could give us in this matter. I have a ~opy of this I would like to submit. THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. Thank you very much. What is the approximate height of this new building? MR. RICHTER: Fifteen feet. THE CHAIRMAN:, Okay. Is there anytime you think the existing barn --which was probably the original barn when this was a farm at one time-- isn't that correct? It certainly looks like it with those old not asbestos, they are asphalt, I guess, shingles on the side. MR. RICHTER: THE CHAIRMAN: existing barn would be Asphalt shingles on there, yes. Is there any time you think the leveled and you would continue with another facility over even more? Monetarily I am sure it is a big endeavor, but I mean-- MR. RICHTER: It is, but I don't know --that just hasn't been discussed as yet, and we don't have that much space in there for all the machinery that we have. And a golf course 9/10/92 20 really needs a lot of machinery. There is more and more coming in every day, I think. THE CHAIRMAN: I have been out, I have looked at it; I understand to a certain degree --I am not a golfer, but I understand your problem, and I will ask any of my fellow Board members if they have specific questions concerning this while you are standing there. MEMBER DINIZIO: Mr. Richter, what is the distance between the fence and the new barn? The distance between that property line and the new barn? MR. RICHTER: Ten feet. THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Doyen, do you have any questions of Mr. Richter? MR. DOYEN: Not really. THE CHAIRMAN:. This is a metal or steel building? MR. RICHTER: Right, a Morton building. THE CHAIRMAN: Not that it makes any difference to this Boards but the specific color of the building: Is there any colors planned. MR. RICHTER: It was chosen as red. THE CHAIRMAN: It was going to be chosen as red, okay. MEMBER DINIZIO: Just one question. Is this building going to house all the equipment you have at the present time because you have it all lined up along the fence there? Is that all going to be taken care of? 9/10/92 21 MR. RICHTER: Yes~ Plus some can be put in the old building, but certainly not enough. MEMBER DINIZIO: You mean you have it all lined up out there and it is all going to be taken away? MR. RICHTER: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: We thank you'for your presentation° I am sure we will have you back up again in a couple minutes after the neighbors would like to speak; and then we will get back to you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this? Wait one second. We are still doing in favor. Sam, how are you tonight, Mr. Markel. So nice to see you. SAM MARKEL: It seems a little strange to be sitting down here. I just want to say that the property where this barn is going to be located in their backyard is now being used to house a herd of goats. ,As a matter of fact, just today our local police had a herd of goats out of the road. We have had those goats infringe upon us many, many times. And we have had to chase them back. This barn was chosen so that the height would not be obstructive and the color was chosen to be in keeping with sort of a farm atmosphere or agricultural atmosphere, and that was the purpose of choosing a red color. It definitely will take away all the machinery along that area that is now parked there twelve months of the year except when used. I think it will greatly improve the entire rear of our neighbor's property° We had another neighbor a little east where we bent over backwards and did everything that gentleman wanted, including erecting a fencer and he is perfectly 9/10/92 satisfied with what we have done. to take care of our neighbors. THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Markel, before you sit down --in your capacity of speaking here, you are a shareholder in island's End? MR. MARKEL: I am a director, treasurer and a shareholder. THE CHAIRMAN: Is there any particular reason why you chose to put it there and you didn't want to move it a little bit farther west? Does that conflict with the eighth hole? MR. MARKEL: A little farther west? Trees. We have beautiful trees there that are not young trees but have been there for years and are a thing of beauty in itself. THE CHAIRMAN: Right. MR. MARKEL: tn fact, almost every year, little ones I am sure if you have been out 22 We really bend over backwards golf course you would ever want to be on. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Anybody else want to speak in favor? Seeing no hands, sir, you are ready? RUSSOS ABADIOTAKIS, 2323 Avenue U, Brooklyn, NY: The first time I come to the Board of Appeals and they never show up. I bought (indistinguishable) over there 15 years ago. I spent $10,000 to put a fence and have no time to plant flowers by that --What they do, they bring all the garbage and they got a hundred machines and they destroy my whole fence which I am going back to court now and I am going to order them we plant hundreds of trees and big ones and keep replacing. there, ours is as nice as any 9/10/92 23 to take off my property; and if they want to build, they should build the right thing behind the existing there. They say private road, but it is my road, that is what you are going through. And he say the goats they destroy, the goats I open today, the animals, I let them out for the first time I see them go on the street today in front of th~ place. But I can disappear the goats, but won't disappear the machinery you got there; it all rotten and broken my fence. And i going to take them to court and -- ~ THE CHAIRMAN (interposing): Could I just ask you a question? MR. ABADIOTAKIS: Yes, sir. THE CHAIRMAN: What word could I refer to you as in American, what? MR. ABADIOTAKtS: Russos. THE CHAIRMAN: What do you specifically object to in reference to the barn if they are going to construct a barn, okay, to take care of the problem that exists with putting --and I am trying to act as an intermediary here-- to put the equipment in so that they don't destroy your fence. Do you object to it from a view point-of-view? Do you object to it from a use point-of-view? What way do you object to it? MR. ABADIOTAKIS: Sir, if you ask them-- THE CHAIRMAN: No, don't point to people. MR. ABADIOTAKIS: I like to point to him in charge over there. 9/~0/92 24 THE CHAIRMAN: He hasn't even spoken yet. I don't know his name. MR. ABADIOTAKIS: They all coming all together. My property, every time I go over there, I got to get a garbage can to walk along the fence to pick up the beer cans and the bottles from what his workers throw in and out every time. I want my property to be private; if they want to put it right, they put it in back of the existing barn they got. If they want to get into that, they can make it go from the existing barn to Go in and out. They can do things if they want to. They just want to make me disgusted with what they do so far. And I am here to stay. I am not here to leave. THE CHAIRMAN: I understand. But just let me explain. We just asked him the question, we just established that the existing barn --it looks like to me it is almost falling down-- MR. ABADIOTAKIS: No fall down the barn. They can build in the back another barn right behind, which-- THE CHAIRMAN: He just said they can't because it is going to affect-- MR. ABADIOTAKIS: They don't want it! What if I want to build a house for my son and he look at the back of a barn! THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anything that they could do, other than building the barn as an attachment to the existing old barn that would make you happy? 9/10/92 25 MR. ABADIOTAKIS: I don't want it in the front my property, all around. First of all, from the middle of the private road next, that road is not private to them. They use it like it is private, trucks to deliver on my property oil trucks to deliver oil; I got forced to put the fence because every time I come I see 20 cars parked in the back of my garages in the yard. Every time I come I was disgusted. I never complain to the police. Last year they shot, his workers, with a .22 pistol and the police have a report. This guy for 5 years ago-- THE CHAIRMAN: Wait a minute. Don't point to anybody please. MR. ABADIOTAKIS: I point to people in charge. Five years ago they put (indistinguishable) on top the golf course for their malls, I don't know what. Three shifts for ten minutes because they die in ten minutes (sic). Now it bothers them that I have a fence they don't want no more. THE CHAIRMAN: Would you want us to make them construct a six-foot stockade fence along the entire back of your property? MR. ABADIOTAKIS: No, my fence I take care of Ay problems. I don't want a building close to my property. They can build in the back of the existing building. If they want to put a barn in the back of the yard, let them put it their houses. Now I spend a lot of money over there and sleep there maybe ten times in a year. And I pay taxes like everybody else. I want to be private. 9/30/92 26 THE CHAIRMAN: Who takes care of the farm animals? MR. ABADIOTAKIS: (Indistinguishable) THE CHAIRMAN: You have somebody takes care of them. So there is nothing that-- MR. ABADIOTAKIS: THE CHAIRF~%N: I There is no problem-- just asked the question because you said you weren't here. So there is nothing that we could impose in this specific application that would make you happy or that would put your mind at ease? MR. ABADIOTAKIS: From the main road, that driveway that we got to go in, all the way to my yard - otherwise, they go like an "L" shape there and (indistinguishable). They can build on their barn, they can go up 10 stories, I em not going to object. As long as it is on the back of the barn. So it looks like one building. You can't start putting up a barn. What if I want to put a barn over there? Then you going to tell me I can't do what they can do? When you start breaking the zonings, you do it for everybody. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Would you like to speak, sir, the gentleman with the red shirt? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER': No, he pointed his finger at me and I don't even know the guy. THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Richter, we have a couple qliestions. I rarely get into negotiating in this, I want you to know that. But is there enough room to erect this barn standing on its own in front of the existing barn? I am not saying Long 9/10/92 27 island Sound in front of~ I am talking of in back of, basically, on the south side. M~. RICHTER: south side? THE CHAIRMAN: equipment in and out. MR. RICHTER: THE CHAIRMAN: MR. RICHTER: THE CHAIRMAN: Is there enough room to build it on the Yes, and then be able to jockey That barn is 37 feet off his line. And this barn is how wide? Thirty, twenty-nine. ~ So forget that. So he is only asking now for it to be constructed on the north side? MR. RICHTER: On the north side of the barn. THE CHAIRMAN: And that would be obstructing the first green --is that what the? MR. RICHTER: .Obstructing the first and of course the eighth. Now there is one other thing, too. Mr. Russos seems to think he has a right of way on our property which is our property, which there used to be a right-of-way there years ago, many years ago; but it is now not existent because there are no parcels up there like there were before. There were five parcels in that area. The right-of-way that was there, many years ago, didn't touch his property anyway, so he had no right to use that to get across. I don't quite understand what he means by his driveway we are using. THE CHAIRMAN: I really don't know, and I would rather not get into it. Adjacent to the existing barn on the west side 9/],0/92 28 making a T-effect out of this would cause a particular problem also, I assume. MR. RICHTER: Yes, even more so. THE CHAIRMAN: What about bringing the barn out farther than ten feet from the existing back line of Mr. Russos property? MR. RICHTER: Much further. I think another 5 feet and I doubt it would make any difference to Mr. Russos. THE CHAIRMAN: Would it make any difference to you? MR. RICHTER: It would, yes, to a certain extent. Fifty feet is an extreme hardship to us. I understand we got a big piece of property there. The unfortunate thing that i see is that particular line where his fence is and our machinery is parked alongside of, is his back yard and our front yard. He is permitted, with his acreage, to build within 20 feet of that line. We must go back 50 feet from that line. Same line with two different interpretations. It breaks my heart. THE CHAIRMAN: That is not necessarily the case because if he was building a primary structure, he would have to go back farther. Well, we will take a long, hard look at this and it doesn't appear you are going to be building it this year based upon what this gentleman is telling us, and that is what I am trying to do as an intermediary, to appease everybody so we can all be happy here. I want to be honest with you, gentlemen. I have seen these things go on two and three years. So you are going to lose equipment; he is going to spend money; you are going to spend money; and the Town is going to spend 9/10/92 29 money. I wish we could have come to some agreement here. And, Sam, if you have any ideas here-- MR. RICHTER: I would say that we would bend over backwards to accomplish something that would be agreeable to both parties and live in peace forevermore. We are talking about equipment that costs $50,000 or' $60,000;.and, very frankly, although we are a membership corporation, we do cater to the community and all its functions. I don't have to tell any of you that. We accept every group in this Town that wants to use our facilities, and we accept days aside for it specifically. In my mind, it would be imperative to have a good neighborly relationship. We go way out of our way to do it now and would be happy to do it again. THE CHAIRMAN: I would rather not see litigation on this. Thank you, sir. JCould we meet you gentlemen on Saturday morning at ten o'clock out there? And take a look at the old barn and J-are you going to be around Saturday, Mr. Richter? MR. RUSSOS ABADIOTAKIS: Whyfore he can say I have no private in the back? How I was going the back of my garages before that, how I was going in? I put the fence there to stop your trucks park there and cars. But I have a door over there and I open driveway with a double doorway and I going open another door for the trucks to come through because oil truck used to come through there. You can ask Mr. OIL to deliver the oil. Now you people have no idea of rights. I am the only private, am I right or wrong? On the left and right is all commercial, am I right or wrong? 9/10/92 30 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, they are residential also. MR. ABADIOTAKIS: Ail right; so why do they have to come here and -- THE CHAIRMAN: They have in a residential district. MR. ABADIOTAKIS: That's to stay. a pre-existing golf course right; that's what it going THE CHAIRMAN: We are not referring to this golf course being a commercial operation. It is a residential golf course. It is a non-conforming golf course. There is no zoning on your golf course, right? MR. RICHTER: That's right. THE CHAIRMAN: So we will meet you around nine-thirty, ten o'clock. I'll be at the barn. Mr. Dinizio wants to come, Mr. Villa; Mr. Doyen will be back in Fishers Island, and I'll be there quarter to ten or so. We'll take a look at the old barn interiorly~ we'll take a look at any options that we might have in reference to modifying this thing. I really don't want to get into the right-of-way issue. That's not for our, you know. And we will see what we can develop here. And we will reconvene the hearing at the next regularly scheduled meeting. We will make a decision, and that way to go. MR. ABADIOTAKIS: (indistinguishable). everything. I will now. is the end of it. I think that is the They destroy my whole fence They got a hundred machines. They bust I never complain. I never took them to court, but Because now they going out of hand. 9/10/92 MR. RICHTER: fence. We did bump into the corner post. with a truck in the corner post. Okay? is no problem. MR. ABADIOTAKIS: I going to check the whole thing. is saying. ~HE CHAIRMAN: MR. RICHTER: you look down the road, One more thing I will say about that Somebody hit that We can fix that. That Wait a minute. Let him finish what he You stand at one end of that fence and and it is bent like this. TOwards the golf course. Now we didn't do that. Goats did that. The goats been pushing-- MR. ABADIOTAKIS: The goats, come on --your tractors. I know what is gozng on. THE CHAIRMAN: You guys give us a real toughie here, you know that. Have a good night. MR. ABADIOTAKIS: (Indistinguishable) THE CHAIRMAN: Calm down. We are going to try to get this squared away. Hearing no further comments, I will make a motion recessing this to the next regularly scheduled meeting~ 9/zo,/92 32 8:27 p.m. APPLICATION NO. 4114 - GEORGE TSAVARIS. A Variance to the zoning Ordinance, Article XXIII, Section 100-239.4 for approval of deck area as exists at the top of bluff stairway along the L.I. Sound. Location of Property: 2170 The Strand Lane, East Marion, NY; Pebble Beach Farms Filed Map No. 6266, Lot 111; Parcel ID No. 1000-30-2-53. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a sketch of deck area and pictures in this application supplied to us by the applicant, and we have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. We have a survey dated January 15, 1992, updated April 16, 1992, indicating this approximately 3-sided deck showing approximate diameter of 15.9 feet, 15 feet 9 inches, approximately ground level or so, with a little elevation. Mrs. Tsavaris, would you like to be heard? Who is speaking? MRS. TSAVARIS: I don't know what more to say except that when we had first put the deck in, I had originally thought that we had the house and the deck because both of them were on the site plan together. I thought that everything was approved; and when the DEC had come for the steps, they were on the deck and the application had said that it was attached to a deck. I tried to get a copy of the plans he had but with Labor Day, I couldn't get it. 9/10/92 33 THE CHAIRMAN: DO we have a copy of the DEC permit? That is what you were waiting for --in there? You have it right there. MRS. TSAVARIS: The copy I have, but I couldn't get the plans to show you it was drawn with the whatever. THE CHAIRMAN: I hate to bring this up: What has developed with your neighbors over the last decision? MRS. TSAVARIS: Nothing. THE CHAIRMAN: Let's see if anybody has any specific questions concerning this. MEMBER VILLA: When was it built? How long has it been there? MRS. TSAVARIS: 1985. THE CHAIRMAN: That is the year the house was built. MRS. TSAVARIS: The house was completed and then the deck was built. MEMBER VILLA: Was it in the springtime? MRS. TSAVARIS: I believe so, as soon as the ground thawed out. THE CHAIRMAN: Has there been any movement on the lip of the bluff based upon the construction of this particular-- MRS. TSAVARIS: Not that I know of. There is beach plum that has grown in 3 feet. When we had first planted it and it is all over now. The soil sample, the way it is graded, we kept the natural contour of the bluff so that everything would -- no water runs off the bluff from my backyard-- it all runs forward. Landward not seaward. On one of the surveys I had the 9/10/92 34 contour lines shown --higher in the back and as it goes forward to the front yard of my house. THE CHAIRMAN: You do utilize this fireplace? The charcoal pit --you use that quite regularly? MRS. TSAVARIS: Not that regularly. In the summertime. THE CHAIRMAN: There is no lighting attached to this deck at all? MRS. TSAVARIS: No, there is just lighting areound the bottom of the deck so that nobody falls. THE CHAIRMAN: There are no specific umbrellas used on this deck to shield the sun? beat up. that has MRS. TSAVARIS: THE CHAIRMAN:. MRS. TSAVARIS: an umbrella. THE CHAIRMAN: I have one umbrella that is kind of And is there any other type of-- There is a little round table and I don't have any other questions. This is directly related to the stairs which lead down to the Sound, right? MRS. TSAVARIS: Yes. questions from Board members? elops at the hearing. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Seeing no hands, I make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later. It is attached. No other okay, we will see what else dev 9/10/92 35 8:35 p.m. APPLICATION NO. 4119SE - RICHARD GOODALE AND MATTITUCK AUTO CENTER, INC.(Tenant). Special Exception to the Zoning Ordinance, Article X, Section 100-101B(12) for a permit authorizing: (a) a new car sales establishment;(b) an establishment of an accessory use incidental to the proposed new car sales establishment for the sale and/or lease of used vehicles; (c) outside display of vehicles, (d) accessory office use incidental to the new principal use as a new car sales establishment. Location of Property: 7655 Main Road (NYS Route 25), Laurel, near Mattituck, NY: County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-122-06-30.1 (prey. 30). (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record.) THE CHAIRMAN: ~ This hearing is in behalf of Richard Goodale. It is a hearing which has been continuing and Mr. McLaughlin is here straight from Channel 25. I had seen him this afternoon It is nice to have public figures here. Is there something you would like to add to this hearing, Mr. McLaughlin? Appearance: J. Kevin McLaughlin, Esq., for the Applicant. F~R. MCLAUGHLIN: Not really. I believe we have supplied you with everything you requested in the. way of some additions to the sketch site plan showing the parking for automobiles that may be on site, not for sale but merely taken'- in as trades and to be removed for the next available auction, 9/10/92 36 taken off site and sold somewhere else. And I have supplied the Town Attorney with a copy of a rather substantial brochure from the electric power franchise down in Florida which I believe he has reviewed and has made available to the Board. I believe that we have provided, with everything we have given to the Board so far, proof as to all of the elements necessary for a special exception under 100-10lB(12) and I am here basically to answer any questions that you may have. THE CHAIRMAN: Well, we are still discussing this with the Town Attorney in reference to its adequacy, and that is the' only concern I have at this particular point. I have really no other concerns, other than the fact that there are probably too many cars there for sale at this time, and any decision from this Board may limit the amount of cars that are actually to be used for display. I am~not trying to put you in a positive or negative mode in reference to your considerations here. You may see something more than a permanent decision from this Board, and it depends basically on how we still to determine this franchise and how it is to exist. And that is all I can really tell you. You can try and pump me for information, but we are still discussing it, and I am in no way trying to hold back anything from you. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I have attempted and I have at a very limited opportunity spoken with the Town Attorney. THE CHAIRMAN: Only to the Doint that I think in months to come it would behoove you and your applicant -- you as the agent for the applicant, and the applicant-- to discuss some 9/10/92 37 modification to the Southold Town Code concerning this particular problem that exists here; and that is the requirement of a new car franchise; and that may be a possibility. I don't know how-- MR. MCLAUGHLIN: It could be but I haven't received any enthusiastic support so far. THE CHAIRMAN: At the time of voting on that, it was a different Town Board. There are different people on the Board at this time. That's all I can tell you at this point. But based upon the criteria that we have, I am not ready to vote and, again I use the word "unkind'~-- It would be unkind of me to have you leave this hearing with your applicant and the architect for the applicant and tell you that we are ready to vote on a permanent special permit because it ain't going to happen unfortunately, at this point, based on the information that we have. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: See, that is what my problem is because no one is telling me what additional information they would like to see. We would be happy to disclose anything and everything that we have available to us but to the best of my knowledge, we have given you everything that you have requested, and I don't know what further steps to take because I am not getting any feedback in particular --and I don't mean this in a critical way-- but I am just not getting any feedback either from the Town Attorney or from this Board as to what it is that they are interested in seeing that they don't have. 9/~0/92 a8 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. Well, I think in particular, in looking at the normal criteria, of this corporation, I think personally you could send any car down to them and they would produce a (one word indistinguishable) car. It doesn't have to be a new Car. It doesn't have to be -- there are outfits in Florida that make a convertible out of a hard top. It will put fiberglass fenders on a VW and make it look like a Benton, all right. That doesn't change the physical characteristic of the car. The car at the time that it was given to them was a used car, right? And that is the basic problem that we have under this situation --that I have-- I am not speaking for the other Board members. This issue has not necessarily only been raised by me because I cannot take full responsibility for this; and I am telling you pointblank that is my opinion on the whole situation; go ahead -- MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I had, again, a very limited chance to speak t° the Town Attorney about this. His first reaction after he got this brochure we had given him was this is just a conversion kit; and I said No, if you look carefully at the brochure, there are two things that this company does. One is Yes~ what you just said: They will take an existing used car and convert it into an electric car from a gasoline car. But they will also provide brand-new electric cars, and that is what we intend to utilize the franchise to do, sell new electric cars. MEMBER VILLA: Ask him, who is the manufacturer of the new electric cars that you would be doing business with? 9/1Q/92 39 THE CHAIRMAN: They could be any manufacturer. I don't care. It could be Ford, Chrysler, GM, whatever. MEMBER VILLA: The question I was asking: Who is the manufacturer of the new electric cars that you would be doing business with? You haven't got anybody yet. You don't show a manufacturer of a new electric car. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, yes, they do. From this brochure I just gave you a copy. THE CHAIRMAN: Now, without letting the cat out of the bag, totally, all right, as I told you, we are not going to give you a permanent license --you know, permanent special permit at this point. At this point I think we should let it go. We will render our decision, all right, and we are going to see you back in the future, and you are going to show us and tell us what you did, and that is the end of it. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Again, I don't mean to be critical, but I don't understand what it is that the Board is not helpful. I understand you are telling me we are not going to get a special exception, a permanent special exception; but I don't understand what you mean, you are going to see us back here in front of this Board again. Again, if there is something that you are looking for, we are not playing our cards close to our chests here. We are trying to provide you with whatever we can which you can make an enlightened decision upon. Whatever that may be. But to tell me we are going to get a decision that is going to require us to come back and give you some future proof somewhere down the line --I just don't understand why you 9/10/92 40 don't tell me what it is you want now so that we can begin to try to compile that information for you if it is available. MEMBER VILLA: Sales of solar cars. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You want us to come to you and tell you we have already sold solar cars? THE CHAIRMAN: New cars. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: New solar cars. I would respectfully s~bmit to this Board that nobody required that of any other car dealer around here, and I think that --while I don~'t have any particular problem with providing you with proof of that-- I .think it is a burden being put on an electric car franchise that isn't put on any other car franchise here. THE CHAIRMAN: That is why I said to you, Kevin, it would make sense to me -- MR. MCLAUGHLIN: MEMBER VILLA: I Sorry I didn't hear you. said any other franchise is a bona fide franchise. I mean if you go to a franchise for Ford or Chrysler, they don't give out those things willynilly. You have got to put up performance standards, and, actually, you almost have to buy these kind of things. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: There is no question, it is extremely expensive to open up a car agency, a regular Ford franchise or whatever. MEMBER VILLA: Okay, and the last one they had, the car agency complied with all the rules and regulations, et cetera, setbacks and everything else. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Plus they built a big building. 41 THE CHAIRMAN: But that is not my point. My point is that, although we have no specific criteria for the establishment of a new car franchise, we are used to new car franchises the way we know a new .car franchise is, and that is basically what Bob just mentioned, right? There may be some other avenue that you may investigate' in the near future that may be more advantageous to you to prove to us there is a possibility that this may exist, all right. At this point it is not tangible to me. I can't see it, I can't feel it, I can't touch it, and you cannot show me revenue, dollars-and-cents proof for anything that this particular business is going to fly. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: No one else did that ahead of time THE CHAIRMAN: Even if they opened and closed the doors and a new car was brought in, one new Mustang mn Lucas Ford, okay, then we would know that they had one new Mustang to sell and they must have gotten it from Ford Motor Company, and that was basically the situation. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Are you telling me if we had one electric car on the lot for sale, that would suffice? THE CHAIRMAN: No, I am saying that at least we would be able to see it; we would be able to touch it; we would be able to feel it; we would be able to drive it if we wanted to, if we sent somebody down there. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: The problem with that is, it is like asking Lucas Ford to stock his showroom before he gets permission from the Town Hall for all the requisite permits in order to operate. What sense does it make for us to bring an 9/10/92 42 electric car up here now when we don't have the requisite permits from the Board? THE CLERK: First time it has been done on Long Islandr right? Is there an~here on Long Island that has it? THE CHAIRMAN: Does anybody else sell them, Kevin? THE CLERK: On Long Island?' MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't know. Do you know, does anybody else sell them on Long Island? MEMBER VILLA: To use another argument, you have got all those used cars sitting there without a permit. So what is the difference? You can spend a lot of money, bringing in all these other cars, and you are in violation of the Town code, but you are doing it anyway~ ME. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, we have (two words inaudible) have done that, and we have come to an arrangement with the Town concerning that.violation° THE CHAIRMAN: That was when you had gotten cited for it in the Justice of the Peace Court right and had a $75 fine, howmuch? MR. MCLAUGHLIN: $775. And the Town Attorney and myself negotiated an arrangement as to how to continue. So my -- while technically there may be a Violation, there is an agreement as to the operation of this business. THE CHAIRMAN: What I am saying to you is I could have just said to you: Thank you for coming. There is no additional information. I am still saying we are having a problem, okay. 9/10/92 43 MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I understand the problem; I just would like to be able co say, if you as~ me to do something, I will attempt to do it. THE CHAIRMAN: I want to be honest with you. I know, Rick; I don't want to shut you guys down. I would rather not do that, okay. I mean and that is basically the situation, so we are going to wait and see what happens here. THE CLERK: Where are they selling these cars. Maybe we could go there and find out from the company more'about it. THE APPLICANT: Florida. THE CLERK: Florida is the only place they are selling them, nowhere in the State of New York? THE CHAIRMAN: He said he doesn't know MEMBER VILLA: They provide conversion kits. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: He indicates they are selling them in Connecticut somewhere. THE CLERK: Are they allowed in New York? THE APPLICANT: Sure. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: There are certain limitations in the technology of electric vehicles that don't make them appeal to everyone these days. THE CHAIRMAN: Well, that is basically where we are at this point, Kevin, and in any case you know, I am just telling you that is what we discussed and where we are, and it is not going to have in the short run in my opinion based on a decision that we are going to render, a real negative effect upon your client. 9/10/92 44 MR. MCLAUGHLIN: SO there will be a decision rendered? THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. And we just ask that you keep all the avenues open so that we can come to some agreement here eventually. As for the variance on the buffer, we are going to hold that in abeyance, and we will see what happens. THE CLERK: Tell him why you are holding it in abeyance, so that he doesn't have to go through a whole site-plan process. THE CHAIRMAN: You are not going to be required to do a site plan process, in my opinion, until such time as you can prove to us that these things exist. Certainly I can be taken on the carpet for this by the Planning Board; there is no doubt in my mind. The minute they read these minutes, I am sure I'll get a call from the Chairman, there is no question of that. If you don't have a permanent special permit from this Board, you certainly are not going to invest, Rich said, $30.000 they wanted? That is what the site plan cost? So that is basically the situation, okay. And let's come to the realization, let's get it done, let's see what we can do, and I think you should keep the avenue open, the possibility o~ a modification on the existing requirement of having a new car license. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I will be happy to go back to members of the Board and see whether or not they are more receptive --That avenue was explored, quite frankly. THE CHAIRMAn: You spoke to the Chairman of the Legislative Committee about this? 9/10/92 45 MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I spoke with a couple of members of the Town Board who could not enthusiastically endorse that idea. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. You know, then we just have to go on the other avenue. When it comes up here, we will go see it and that is basicall~ it, and, you know, go from there. That is the best I can do for you at this point. Mr. Doyen, in the interim is going to call the Solar Car Corporation, all right? MEMBER DOYEN: They have received some national attention from the media, this company. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't think that there is much question that this is the technology of the future. But the future is not quite here. MEMBER DOYEN: it is getting there. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: But Well, like the Model T. MR. DINIZIO: ~Well, you can't have the ~uture without the past. You have to live by that. MEMBER DOYEN: Kevin, I would just like to know and, if you cans please be honest: What is your intention --if we grant this-- what car is your intention to put out there? MR. MCLAUGHLIN: We will do whatever we have to do. We will buy and put there a brand new car. We will sell as many new solar cars as the public will buy, and we will make money at it. We will be happy to sell. MEMBER DOYEN: (PHRASE inaudible) to put a Ford Festiva out there on the thing that we approved as far as being ~ feet away from the road. Is that your intention right now to do that? 9/10/92 46 To go buy this electric car, Ford Festiva or Caravanw whatever it might be-- and display it on that lot; and, whether you sell it or not is not really relevant, in my mind. A person who sells things is not a seller until someone buys something. If you purchase something and try to sell it, it is the same thing, you are trying to sell it; and I understand that. Do you intend to buy one of these cars, put it on that lot for sale? MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I can only speak for price myself. If it was me and I was there, my answer would be "Only if you make me." Because I wouldn't invest the money if I didn't have to. If I could sell it out of the brochure, I'd sell it out of the brochure and not have to pay the floor-room finance. THE CHAIRMAN: We could care less if it ever shows up in Mattituck. The question is, is it going to be sold, is it going to happen? Is the franchise (indistinguishable due to multiple voices). MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I can tell you what I would do. THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I would like to know what the applicant would do. I think it bears a lot --if you are telling me to interpret this as a new car dealership in the sense that the code was written, okay - and you have people on the code committee saying 'no used-car dealerships without new car dealerships' --That is what they are saying-- now I am having them think of Campbells in Greenport, Lucas Ford now, Mullen Motors, in their mind as new car dealerships, maybe they have fifteen or twenty new cars. Well, I don't care if it is 9/10/92 47 one new car; I don't care if it's from Russia, where --It doesn't make any difference; but in the sense that the code was written, which is we can't usurp that code. We can interpret it somewhat, but I still think you have to interpret it somewhat sensibly; and the reason why I am asking for your intention is because it means a lot. It seems like this whole situation has gone inches at a time. It has never taken big steps. It has always been you want four spaces, they want ten spaces, that. Now we need places to park the used cars. We always-have to find these things out, instead of a set plan coming in, okay, this is a workable site plan. This is what you need for a used car dealership. You got to have spaces for people who trade in cars, got to have enough room here to turn them, and things such as that. I thought that the idea of an electric car dealership was a great idea. Okayr I will leave it at that, but if your intention --and I don't hear it from anybody-- is not to actually display the new car in the sense of what I am thinking the new car dealership is, then I don't know how this flies, even temporarily. MEMBER DOYEN: The question I had before when I was asking, do you have a bona fide agreement with these people that you are bound to have these immediately, or (inaudible) with a new automobile? MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I believe so, yes. We have an agreement. 9/10/92 ~8 MEMBER DOYEN: There is no question, that there is no backing out on their part? They don't like you, do you have a binding contract? MR, MCLAUGHLIN: No more than any other franchise. I mean, if they are not satisfied and I don't mean to pick out Lucas Ford, but if he doesn't sell enough cars, they are going to pull their dealership from him. MEMBER DOYEN: I mean even to sign off with. Not down the road. You are not a new car dealer if you don't have one of these cars. So if they back out, where are you? You don't have a new franchise. THE CHAIRMAN: It is not even a franchise-type deal because you or I could go to them and get the same agreement as an individual, they would sell us a new car. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: That is not true. We have an exclusive area in which to sell. I am not saying you couldn't go down there personally. You can possibly go to Ford and buy a car from them. THE CHAIRMAN: He is saying they have a specific geographic location. When Jimmy Dinizio (Member) referred to Campbells, Lucas is an offshoot of Campbells. Campbells used to be a Ford dealership in Greenport, so basically when they closed and extinguished their franchise, it was then that Ford relocated and Lucas came out here and reinstituted that franchise. MEMBER DOYEN: Put it another way. The ordinance requires a new car franchise to sell used cars, right? 9/19/92 49 MR. MCLAUGHLIN: New car dealership. MR. DOYEN: So you this out and the company doesn't like you anymore, and so you decide you haven't got the franchise, and then where is your used car business? What we are trying to satisfy is you got a viable, going new dealership so we don't have problems down the road. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I I have looked into with this viable concern that is-- MEMBER DOYEN: MR. MCLAUGHLIN: MEMBER DOYEN: voices). MR. MCLAUGHLIN: appreciate that and everything that indicates to me that this is a __going Well, I don't to stand up in the long run. I don't know. know either (overlapping I would agree that if we don't have products to sell of the,new car variety, we are not a new car dealership. MEMBER DOYEN: We are just trying to make sure you have a real bona fide new car dealership. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I appreciate that and, believe me, I understand that this is not the typical dealership that was contemplated under the code when it was adopted; and it is not the typical franchise agreement that you are going to find with a Ford, Chrysler or anybody else. THE CHAIRMAN: The other concern that we have conceivably is the fact that when we use the word secondary and incidental in the way of accessory structures, okay, we are using the word secondary and incidental in this particular 9/10/92 50 manner to mean that the primary use of this particular business is to sell used cars, is it not? THE CLERK: New cars or used cars? MR. MCLAUGHLIN: The primary purpose of this is to sell automobiles and make money. Whether they be new or used. Now I am not going to stand here before you and tell you, say, you've got ten used cars on the lot and one ~ew electric car -- I am not going to tell you that I think in the first month the new car sales are going to surpass the sales of used vehicles. I would think that would be extraordinary. THE CHAIRMAN: No, what I am saying is that normally what we are used to seeing is --and correct me if I am wrong-- In a new car dealership that 80 per cen{ of the cars on the floor plan or on the floor, be it inside or outside~ are new ~ars; and 20 per cent or 10 per cent are used cars. In this particular case we have a reverse situation. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Although my understanding --and I am no expert-- It is just what I have been told by the applicant basically is that on the average, a new car, a regular new car dealership, their sales are approximately one-third new car, one-third used car, and one-third service. So if we are talking about a new car dealership with the sale of used cars incidental to that, I don't know what the definition would be --It certainly can't be just profit because probably none of them would get more than 50 per cent of their profits out of the sale of new cars. THE CHAIRMAN: Although the service is primarily related to the new car issue, based upon the fact that people would want to Probably keep their new cars in better shape than their used cars. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What was the rationale on the new dealership (inaudible)? THE CHAIRMAN: I didn't write the Code, sir. Because in years gone by there must have been a significant amount --The service of the cars is not outside; is that correct?' MR. MCLAUGHLIN: There will be no on-site service of these cars. THE CHAIRMAN: Of any cars? MR. MCLAUGHLIN: No. THE CHAIRMAN: The greatest amount of work on these Cars that exist nowl regardless of whether they are new or used, --when I say new, I mean within the same calendar year, regardless if they have 800 miles on them or 80,000 miles on them, is that they are cleaned and polished in the lower half of the accessory structure in the back? MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I believe that is correct. THE CHAIRMAN: There are no points, plugs, condensers, oil changes or anything of that nature? MR. MCLAUGHLIN: That is all done outside by somebody else, right? MEMBER VILLA: Other than 'emergency? THE CLERK: Emergency what. THE CHAIRMAN: If they have to jump in and change a battery or whatever the case might be. Okay, so that is basically where we are, and sorry to take everybody's so much time, but this is what we had to tell you. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I appreciate the fact. THE CHAIRMAN: There is no other way I can tell you. Anybody else who would like to speak in favor? Against? Seeing no signs, I make a motion to close the hearing and reserving decision until later. 9/10/92 53 9:05 p.m. APPLICATION NO. 4127 - NORTH FORK BANK & TRUST COMPANY. Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article IX, Section 100-92 for permission to construct addition with an insufficient front yard setback along Sound Avenue. Location of Property: 750 Pacific Street at intersection with Sound Avenue, Mattituck, NY; County Tax Map Parcel No. 1000-144-4-24. Subject premises is located in the Hamlet-Business (HB) Zone District. (The Chairman opened the hearing and read the Legal Notice and application for the record. ) THE CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a site plan which is the nature of this application which refers to a proposed addition which extends out from the existing mortgage center of North Fork Bank, past mortgage center of North Fork Bank, to (indistinguishable) Avenue approximately six feet from the property line as it exists now; and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Miss Wickham, would you like to be heard? Appearance: Gail Wickham, Esq., for the Applicant MISS WICKHAM: Thank you. The location of this proposed addition and its contents, which as you can see from the plan is primarily kitchen and staff facilities, were provided to us by the Town of Southold in connection with the pending sale to the Town for use as their Nutrition Center. If you have any questions, I would be glad to answer them for you. THE CHAIRMAN: I know you are answering questions for the municipality; but is there any reason why they chose to go toward Old Sound Avenue and not into the parking lot, since there certainly was more adequate parking. Ail you had to do was take grass away --in other words, flipping the kitchen. MISS WICKHAM: Let me first say, t was hoping someone from the Town would be here tonight; but maybe Ron can help answer that question. My understanding is that when they looked at the layout of the building where they wanted the kitchen to be relative to the access of the driveway for service people and whatnot, and also having people being to able to walk in from the parking lot into the main areas without having to go through a kitchen area, I presume that is why they did it that way. The other thing I understand is that there are some pools in that grass area for drainage. MR. RON BOGOVICH: because the plumbing line is on rest rooms are there and that side. THE CHAIRMAN: have a basement? MR. BOGOVICH: the building. MISS WICKHAM: slab. It was also the most economical way that side of the building. The there is a small kitchen facility on Is this building a slab? Or does it It has a basement in maybe one-fifth of The addition I understand will be on a take-out and in. MISS WICKI~AM: No. knew you would ask questions, I had asked the plumber,because I but I'm sorry I don't know. purposes how many people they serve on a daily basis, THE CHAIRMAN: We have no idea for the hearing both 9/10/92 55 THE CHAIRMAN: Jerry? MR. DINIZIO: The number thrown me at that meeting today was 450 meals daily. THE CHAIRMAN: MISS WICK}LAM: MR. DINIZIO: Okay. Not on premises though. 450 meals. I-guess there are probably some meals-on-wheels, on-site, what have you. THE CHAIRMAN: Let me understand: The Town is contract-vendee or potential contract-vendee, predicated on this particular variance for the construction of this particular addition. If this variance is worded in such a way so as to be used exclusively for this contractual relationship and no other contractual relationship, you as a representative of the North Fork Bank have no problems. MISS WICKHAM:. I have no problems. THE CHAIRMAN: Have all the facilities of North Fork Bank used for this particular purpose in this building, mortgage center~ computerization, hard drives and Soft drives and all the rest-- has that all been removed? MISS WICKHAM: There is some furniture still there. There may be some pieces of equipment, but I think all the fixtures have been removed, haven't they? MR. BOGOVICH: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: The only thing then being utilized at this time is the garage, the storage area for the maintenance crews or whatever? 9/10/92 56 MR. BOGOVICH: No, the,Town is storing their proposed kitchen equipment in the garage. THE CHAIRMAN: I see, because I had seen a North Fork Bank pickup down there, and that is why I asked. MR. BOGOVICH: The bank I think has nothing in the garage any more except a lawnmower that they use to cut the grass there so that -- THE CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any other question? Bob? MR. VILLA: No; in my inquiry into this is the reason the Town is asking North Fork Bank to do it is because it is a turn-key operation; and if the Town were to take it over first, and construct this, they would not actually need any variances because it is a Town operation; but then they would be subject to going out for bids and time delays; and they thought the speediest way of doing it was a turn-key operation. That was my gathering of what transpired. THE CHAIRMAN: Is North Fork Bank building this? MISS WICK~AM: We are, yes. We have been advised the Town wants it and we will obtain permits and build it, and sell it on completion. MEMBER VILLA: THE CHAIRMAN: further questions. MEMBER VILLA: It will be a turn-key operation. In that particular case, I have no I just have a left-handed question. Does this mean the relationship between the Town and the North Fork Bank has improved? Because when I went to cash a check 9/ 0/92 57 there, they wouldn't even look at it. I told them I was a was a stockholder, and they still laughed at me and wouldn't cash the check. MISS WICKHAM: Well, they do have to be prudent with customers on that-- (Interrupted by laughter.) ~ THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing no further comment, I make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision. MISS WICKHAM: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming in. (End of public hearings of 9/10/92)